DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
General => Movies and TV => Topic started by: bosk1 on December 16, 2015, 08:24:04 AM
-
Discussion in this thread is for those who have seen it or do not mind getting spoilers. Keep the other thread spoiler-free.
-
SPOILER
I'm seeing this tonight at midnight. I'll post here my thoughts when i'm home.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWXHsg4XIAA4icj.jpg:small)
-
People predicted that it would be a beat-for-beat retelling of A New Hope, and judging by what people have been saying, they were right. I guess I'll have to see for myself soon.
-
Saw it a few hours ago. I really have to sleep, so I'll join in on the discussion tomorrow. For now I will only say this; the movie is awesome.
-
For one thing - I really want Mike Stoklasa's prediction of the Starkiller Base being inside the ice planet and at the end - it sheds the planet and "activates".
That will look amazing on the big screen.
But mostly i'm up for all the flying scenes. I'm a sucker for aerial photography.
-
Ok I just got back from the cinema.
... First off - it's really good. If you are a fan of the original trilogy - I don't see how you could not love this one.
... And yeah - as has been hinted at - it's pretty much A New Hope again. Which is fine.
The first Falcon chase scene on Jakku - :corn :corn :corn OMG - so good.
-
The ANH parallels are so obvious, and must be intentional. Given the elements they had to work with, such as Kylo Ren's obsession with Vader, and the Resistance, it made some sense in universe. I expect the next movie to be much more original in that regard now that they've regained the fans' trust.
BB-8 was excellent, and the "acting" was cute and hilarious (and I'm pretty sure its voice is Bebot). Everyone was cracking up during the exchange on the Falcon between BB-8, Fin and Rey. Rey, Fin and Poe were all great, and did a good job of carrying the movie. I'm glad they gave plenty of time to the new characters, and there's still a lot of room for each character to develop. Chewy and Han were awesome to have back too. The dialogue all felt much more real than the prequels, and the humour flowed naturally from it for every character.
Some of the old elements was a bit much at times, but it didn't really bother me, it just felt unlikely. Luke's lightsaber was just in that building the whole time, the Falcon was just sitting there as the first ship in range, a few other minor things.
I loved the fighting style all around. Those stormtroopers were going down in all sorts of glorious ways, and I never got tired of seeing them fly. The lightsaber fights weren't pretty, they were frantic, a little clumsy, and much like a real sword fight where you're both going to get hurt, and it's not going to be a 15 minute choreographed dance routine. The lack of skill of the characters made the fights much better.
On the negative side, I didn't really like Kylo Ren or Snoke much. Kylo Ren felt too frat-boy copycat criminal. Snoke's CG was just offputting. Actually, most of the CG characters felt a bit offputting compared to the physical creatures, like that orange midget with the glasses. I also didn't like the ending. They spend the whole movie trying to find Luke, but BB-8's map is incomplete. Then at the end R2-D2 just decides to wake up now and had the other 90% of the map the whole time. It felt like a rushed ending to set up the next movie. Luke looked awesome in the Jedi robes with his contractually obligated beard.
Overall I thought it was very good, and enjoyed it. It felt like a long movie, but not slow, more packed full of a lot to digest. In some ways it felt like classic Star Wars, but it also brought a lot of new elements to it that wouldn't have been possible in the OT or even the PT, and gave it a new feel of its own that made it fresh and exciting.
-
I loved BB-8.
The part when Rey was investigating Maz's place and she heard the lightsabre calling. You see BB-8 in the background carefully coming down the stairs - looking downwards to check each step at a time.
:laugh: :laugh: :heart
Seeing as how much Simon Pegg hated the prequels - it's hugely ironic that his role in this is basically Watto :lol
-
I loved BB-8.
The part when Rey was investigating Maz's place and she heard the lightsabre calling. You see BB-8 in the background carefully coming down the stairs - looking downwards to check each step at a time.
Oh yes, that was the cutest thing ever. I couldn't take my eyes of him in the background.
-
Actually amazing how emotive he was considering he had no face.
And that "thumbs up" lighter moment :rollin
I'm supposed to be seeing it on a much bigger screen next week but I was sitting at home after being inside all day watching Tested and Playing Final Fantasy and I suddenly thought
:o Is my cinema showing TFA at midnight ?! And they were and I bought my ticket there and then.
-
Actually amazing how emotive he was considering he had no face.
And that "thumbs up" lighter moment :rollin
That got the biggest laugh of the whole movie. The bit before it with the back and forth looks was hilarious too.
-
After seeing this - I wish JJ was doing all 3 but I guess they have the "look" down now. It would be silly if the production designer and D.O.P and everyone was different for Episodes 8 & 9.
I'm guessing it's the same crew just a different director.
But I will say that JJ has certainly proved that he can direct. This is by far his best film. Surely the film he was destined to make.
It would have been cool if Episode 7 opened with " 30 years later..." after the crawl. As if it was the direct sequel to Jedi.
-
I loved Rey, she was probably my favorite character in the movie. When she was out at the end and Finn picked up the lightsaber I was a bit disappointed because I wanted to see Rey fight Kylo-Ren. That was the fight I really wanted to see, and I was so happy when it happened later.
And I disagree with you Blob, I loved Kylo-Ren. He was an amazing villain. Snoke though, I'm not too sure about... I'll have to wait for the next movies before judging him, and I guess he was functional here. But yes, the CGI sort of stood out.
-
Kylo was probably more menacing with his mask off.
As soon as he took his mask off I was like " Bingo. He's not Luke - like anyone seriously thought he was..."
I don't get why they were not saying anything about Luke in promo. He just shows up at the end for 1 minute and doesn't say a word.
Is that the big twist ? Will he feature more in the next one ?
-
He will probably be in the next one more. And I thought that ending was perfect.
-
Pretty sure he will train Rey in 8 like Yoda trained Luke in 5. I thought the ending was amazing because you left the theater wanting more, and if they had put in 5-10 minutes with Luke and him talking, explaining, swinging a lightsaber, we wouldn't have left the movie AS hyped.
TFA didn't need Luke Skywalker in the movie to carry the movie, and so when he finally appears, you get that "OMG OMG OMG" reaction and you can't wait for the next one
-
I'll post my opinions.
- I found Finn really interesting, Boyega did an amazing performance and his story arc was really well done
- Poe Dameron was great. He was crucial to the story and a really memorable character, even when he didn't have as much screen time as Rey or Finn.
- I reeeally liked Maz Kanata. I hope she plays a relevant role in the next movies.
- Kylo Ren wasn't as menacing as a lot of people expected him to be, but I was fine with that. He's kind of an evil and better version of Anakin. I think he's meant to be that way in the first movie and I'm actually interested in what he will become in episode VIII. He has already killed his father and has been almost defeated by Rey, something that has surely fueled him with rage and turned him completely to the dark side. I hope he becomes a more complete villain in the next episodes.
- Rey was great, but I felt they gave her too much power. At the end of the first movie she has beaten Kylo Ren, a well-trained and powerful apprentice of the Dark Side, and has already used Jedi Mind Tricks. I don't remember Anakin or Luke being so powerful when using the force for the first time: even Qui-Gon, who was an experienced Jedi Master, had trouble using mind tricks on Episode I
- Overall, great movie. It has a lot of things going on but it doesn't feel heavy or with a boring plot. It really leaves you amped for the next one and I think it lives up to the expectations I had
-
I'm not reading anything in this thread at all. I only came here to post my speculation before I go to see it on Saturday. That way I can have some bragging rights if it turns out that I'm right. LOL
My thought is that JJ has been planning this very well all along. He wants everyone to think that Luke is the bad guy. He's geared up all the rumors and all the material to keep Luke's identity secret. I wouldn't put it past him to Have actually started the rumor that Luke is the bad guy. Even within the realm of the movie I'm betting that Han and Leah and the new characters are all under the impression that Luke is the bad guy. But then the big reveal will turn out to be that he's not.
-
I usually have to let a movie digest for a while before I really rate it, but these are my initial thoughts after immediately seeing it. The characters, especially Finn and Rey were extremely strong, and I was rooting for them the whole time. I actually really enjoyed Driver's performance as Kylo, specifically when the mask was off. With the mask on, it felt a bit silly at times, but without it, he was genuinely terrifying. They shoved in as many references as they possibly could, and then shoved in some more, but that's about what I expected. So that was okay. The third act really slowed down for me, but I can't yet pin point why. Something that I kept thinking about in the end X-Wing dog fights was how much more on the edge of my seat I am at the end of ANH, despite seeing it so much.
The only thing that confused me was how there was still the Republic and the Senate. Wasn't it established that the Senate was dissolved the Republic was "swept away" in the first few minutes of ANH?
-
After watching this movie in the theater I can only but feel content. It's actually made me a fanboy of the series again. I feel giddy and I totally sucked up the fan service and didn't at all mind the callbacks and the rehashing of A New Hope at times. To me it felt more like a mixture of ANH and ESB. I don't think I was bored for a single second of the movie. I LOVED all of it. My first thought when the movie finished was that I wanted to see it again right away.
It felt like a natural flow of dialogue and comedy in the movie. Carrie Fisher looked really old, looked much older than Mark Hammill and Harrison Ford
-
Though this review has no spoilers, it almost entirely echoes my emotions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh_84ExOdhU
-
Kylo Ren's character was absolutely fantastic. He is the child of Leia (who knows the force but never really tapped into it much as far as we know), and Han. So after Luke decided he couldn't teach Kylo because he simply wouldn't learn, Kylo went to the dark side with Snoke and became very powerful at the physical manipulation of the force (could hold a god damn laser bolt in midair). But he is still childish. When he is angry something doesn't go his way, he has a terrible tantrum, swinging that lightsaber around. Notice the lightsaber he owns isn't very well made, how ragged it is, how it buzzes and flickers. Rey (who I have no doubt is a Skywalker) was able to resist Kylo simply through her untapped powers. When she realized she could resist, a lightbulb went off in her head, and she began to utilize the force. For her it seemed to almost be intuition.
-
- Rey was great, but I felt they gave her too much power. At the end of the first movie she has beaten Kylo Ren, a well-trained and powerful apprentice of the Dark Side, and has already used Jedi Mind Tricks. I don't remember Anakin or Luke being so powerful when using the force for the first time: even Qui-Gon, who was an experienced Jedi Master, had trouble using mind tricks on Episode I
Yeah, for someone who thought the force was just a myth until that day, and had literally zero training, she was pretty powerful. She Jedi mind tricked a stormtrooper after only a couple of attempts, and stood up to Kylo Ren who had some training from Luke. She better turn out to be some hella powerful one of a kind force user for that. Obviously she has an important backstory we've yet to fully discover, maybe she's Luke's kid or whatever, so I'll leave it to future films to justify her power. She wasn't told about specifically force powers that I know of, so I'm surprised she never once tried these things before just for a laugh.
Similarly, how did Han go 40 years without ever once trying Chewie's bowcaster?
One thing I got thinking about is that we had Kylo Ren, son of Leia and Han, trained by Luke, who somehow still went off the rails to the darkside (hopefully that will be explained more in later films, how Snoke lured him similarly to Anakin/Palpatine), and then on the flip side we have Fin who was raised his entire life with First Order propaganda to take out the Rebels and think Luke was the most evil person ever, had no trouble turning good with absolutely no hint of doubt that he might betray the Rebels.
Not criticisms, just thoughts.
-
I actually like that they didn't make Kylo Ren this all powerful Sith lord yet. He was very much a Sith in training (by Snoke) and considering the last Jedi (Luke) had gone into hiding, Kylo Ren didn't NEED to be a Vader-type of character yet, because he hasn't faced real competition. Even at his level of powers, he will still take out normal soldiers without much effort. But when he comes across a real force user, he has underestimated them from the start and it's a close fight.
I think it will be interesting to see an arc for him when he also has to train and get better over the movies.
-
Just got back......loved it. I've read most of the comments and I agree with a lot of them.
- Rey having that much power didn't bother me a bit. In fact, I think that it only alludes to how important she is. The little orange character pointing out that the saber was calling for her....her vision...the force.....it just seems like she's obviously strong with the force naturally and it's using her to balance things out and get Luke off his a$$.
- Kylo Ren is a great character IMO that is only going to improve. As someone said....his tantrums are clearly a lack of experience and it's funny because it's essentially how a spoiled kid acts when they don't get their way. As was mentioned here......he's a total badass when dealing with numbskulls and 'conventional' warfare....but throw someone else strong with the force at him and he's exposed. I'm willing to bet that's why he fled Luke and went to Snoke.....Snoke had an 'easier' path to power....Luke wanted the slow burn.
- it was evident even before Leiah asked Han to bring their son home that Kylo was going to kill Solo. But when she said that it sealed the deal in my head. It makes sense for the story and for future movies. Ford isn't getting younger and I thought they did a good job of basically introducing Finn as Hans replacement as far as humor, predicaments...etc.
Very satisfied with the movie...probably go see it again in a few days with the kids.
-
Also....who was the old guy in the village that gave the map to Poe? He knows who Ren is, Ren knew him but I couldn't place the guy?
When we see Snoke 'in person' I'm willing to bet he's actually very tiny....like yoda tiny. The over emphasis on him being large just screams compensation. Still not sure why he had to be CGI though?
-
I think Andy Serkis said that Snoke is 7' tall.
-
Also....who was the old guy in the village that gave the map to Poe? He knows who Ren is, Ren knew him but I couldn't place the guy?
When we see Snoke 'in person' I'm willing to bet he's actually very tiny....like yoda tiny. The over emphasis on him being large just screams compensation. Still not sure why he had to be CGI though?
Max Von Sydow.
-
Maybe the CGI for Snoke was to give a hologram type feel.
Also, I have no problen with Rey being powerful. Snoke sensed an "awakening," and JJ mentioned that because of that, we would see things we haven't seen from the force yet.
-
Also, do a google image search for Darth Plagueis and tell me if that doesn't remind you of a certain someone...
-
I think Andy Serkis said that Snoke is 7' tall.
That makes me happy. Immense power is always more impressive in someone who isn't super huge.
Also, do a google image search for Darth Plagueis and tell me if that doesn't remind you of a certain someone...
I thought that as well, but I don't think that look is canon anymore. It would be awesome though.
-
Just got home, and am tired as hell, but I gotta say they nailed it. I kept catching myself being swept away in wonder, feeling like I did when I first saw Ep 4. They did one hell of a job with it, and I can't wait to see it again!!!
Edit- just realized Abrams blew up Vulcan and killed of Solo. Talk about shaking the fucking tree....
-
Ford always wanted Solo to die.
-
Yep, and he never seemed to have any interest in revisiting Han Solo, and it was rumoured from the very start that they'd finally kill off Solo as he wanted in the OT. It's possibly For only agreed to do the new movies under the provision that Solo died, and I'm sure Disney threw a big bag of money at him even for that much involvement.
-
To be fair, he had quite a bit of involvement this time around. The reason Ford wanted Solo to die was because he felt the character had nothing more to offer after Empire and that his death would show the evolution of his character, from "Han shot first" to "hero of the day." Anyway, I told my friends that in order for it to be a true passing of the torch, the OT characters have to become somewhat irrelevant. I predicted a few deaths; I'm betting more to come.
-
I think Han Solo did a good job passing the torch to the new characters already. I don't think the other OT characters will intrude on the new cast members being the clear stars from here on. I'm glad they've been so well received too, because I think they did a great job. I want to see more Poe in the next one.
Luke will obviously be more featured in the next one, and probably the whole new trilogy to some extent, even if they give him the Obi Wan treatment at some point (although I think it would be best to avoid any more blatant parallels to the OT for the time being). They may need that role for a little while to help re-establish the Jedi and force concepts to the new characters.
Leia didn't have a huge part, so I could see them phasing her out at any time without any issue. They could use the death of Han as a motivator if they wanted her out that soon.
It would have been too obvious to ditch every OT character in the first movie, but I expect they'll do it gradually over the course of the trilogy.
-
The characters in this are better than the original trilogy.
The humour is better than the original trilogy.
It's more emotionally satisfying than the original trilogy (admittedly that's because of groundwork set by those films)
It's my favourite Star Wars.
-
I thought it was somewhere between the prequels and the original trilogy. The new characters were all really good, but the plot was way too fast paced and coincidence driven, and several scenes were just plain awkward at best and poorly developed at worst. The conversation where Han and Leah discuss Kylo has got to be one of the weirdest, info-dumpy scenes in all 7 movies. Han and Leah together where just plain flat.
Also, it feels like they leaned heavily on A New Hope, and that isn't always a good thing. I guess from Abrams I should have expected a skin-deep lightning paced fan service heavy action flick, but deep down I was hoping for something a bit more substantial.
On the positive side, the new characters have a lot of potential and I think Luke's entry into the series is going to turn out really great. Something tells me VIII is the true "new" Star Wars and VII was a bridge to bring back old fans. VIII has potential to be a really great movie.
-
I agree.
I expect the next movie to be better now that they've dealt with a lot of the backstory and introduced the new characters, and brought back a lot of disillusioned fans. TFA's production was a little rushed for what it needed to do, but I think they got the basic elements of casting and tone right to allow the future movies to create something amazing from it. TFA was intentionally familiar, but now I think people are ready for something that deviates further from the OT.
-
Agree with what most everyone has said. Loved it! Yes it was similar to ANH, but I don't a mind a bit. Just a few thoughts.
1. Is Luke Rey's father? When Kylo Ren was torturing her he mentioned the ocean with an island where Luke was. Was that a future vision or a vision from the past?
2. Is Kylo Ren's real name Ben? That's what I thought Han called out to them.
3. Who and where the hell did Snoke come from? Is he a Sith? I'm wonder if he is much smaller than he seemed in the hologram.
4. How did the gal get the Luke's saber? I'm very interested in the story she will tell later.
5. Did Captain Plasma survive? Honestly, her character was very underutilized and that was somewhat disappointing.
6. I could watch a 3 hour movie with just BB-8 and R2-D2!
Can't wait for Episode VIII! I'm sure it will have a much more original story.
Going to see it again at 11 this morning for my work holiday party. :metal
-
I think Andy Serkis said that Snoke is 7' tall.
That makes me happy. Immense power is always more impressive in someone who isn't super huge.
Unless you're Darkseid.
When I first saw Snoke I thought it was The Watcher.
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Force_Awakens#Plot
-
2. Is Kylo Ren's real name Ben? That's what I thought Han called out to them.
Solo called him 'Ben'.....it's safe to say that's his birth name.
-
Being the son of Leia Organa and Han Solo, it wouldn't make much sense for his real name to be Ren. Han definitely called him Ben, so I guess they named their son after Obi-Wan / Ben Kenobi.
-
Oh, and my other theory solidifying in my mind that Rey is Luke's daughter is that R2 awoke when Rey discovered her powers. The connection between RD and that lineage is strong. It would also make sense that Luke would hide her away to protect as that was what was done with him and his sister.
-
Oh, and my other theory solidifying in my mind that Rey is Luke's daughter is that R2 awoke when Rey discovered her powers. The connection between RD and that lineage is strong. It would also make sense that Luke would hide her away to protect as that was what was done with him and his sister.
I think it 'makes sense' but seems a little 'easy' to me to explain it away like that. I wouldn't mind if she weren't his daughter.....shoot.....maybe she was a youngling in Luke's new Jedi order when Ren started destroying it and Luke just decided to save/hide her because he knew how strong she was?
When does Episode VIII come out, I'm ready now... :lol
-
Oh, and my other theory solidifying in my mind that Rey is Luke's daughter is that R2 awoke when Rey discovered her powers. The connection between RD and that lineage is strong. It would also make sense that Luke would hide her away to protect as that was what was done with him and his sister.
I think it 'makes sense' but seems a little 'easy' to me to explain it away like that. I wouldn't mind if she weren't his daughter.....shoot.....maybe she was a youngling in Luke's new Jedi order when Ren started destroying it and Luke just decided to save/hide her because he knew how strong she was?
When does Episode VIII come out, I'm ready now... :lol
May 2017. Not too long for a sequel really.
-
I was thinking - maybe Luke was keeping R2 in low power mode so he could see if Rey was ready to meet him ?
Then after she beat Kylo Ren - he knew she was ready and powered up R2 and revealed the map so they could meet ?
-
Oh, and my other theory solidifying in my mind that Rey is Luke's daughter is that R2 awoke when Rey discovered her powers. The connection between RD and that lineage is strong. It would also make sense that Luke would hide her away to protect as that was what was done with him and his sister.
I think it 'makes sense' but seems a little 'easy' to me to explain it away like that. I wouldn't mind if she weren't his daughter.....shoot.....maybe she was a youngling in Luke's new Jedi order when Ren started destroying it and Luke just decided to save/hide her because he knew how strong she was?
When does Episode VIII come out, I'm ready now... :lol
May 2017. Not too long for a sequel really.
No, that's really not...not at all. wow.
-
I was thinking - maybe Luke was keeping R2 in low power mode so he could see if Rey was ready to meet him ?
Then after she beat Kylo Ren - he knew she was ready and powered up R2 and revealed the map so they could meet ?
Could be? That 'vision' she had seemingly had Luke reaching out to R2 to activate him...or show him where he was at?
-
and.....you'd think by now the 'Empire' or First Order....the "bad guys" could find a group of more intelligent engineers to design an all powerful planet weapon that didn't have a glaring security risk that if destroyed would blow up the whole thing.....like the two previous Death Stars :lol
Might be time to give up on that whole concept....scrap it.....and look for some other idea.
-
And this article already has me pumped for the next episode
https://www.eonline.com/news/725141/star-wars-episode-viii-everything-we-know-right-now
-
Guess we will have a year and a half of these types of articles now:
https://www.vox.com/2015/12/18/10513896/star-wars-the-force-awakens-rey-luke
-
I watched this yesterday.
I liked it very much. I wouldn't go as far to say I loved it because I thought it was an Episode IV tribute (the new empire, the new Death Star, the old mentor being killed, etc.), but I understand why JJ did it. It's miles ahead Episodes I, II and III, and I would rank it even higher than Return of the Jedi if it happens to grow on me. I was afraid Kylo Ren might become an inferior Darth Vader wannabe, but I was super relieved when he took off his mask because he gained a lot of personality to his character.
It was mentioned Rey became an all-powerful force user out of the blue and I found that kind of weird, but it would make sense with the 'there has been an awakening' thing Snoke said; and it's to be noted that her becoming a badass lightsaber user and beating Kylo to the ground was really amazing. The Darth Plagueis/Snoke theory is very interesting, and although it think it's very unlikely (they might as well be of the same alien race but entirely different people), it would be a cool way of linking the prequels with the new trilogy. I like the idea of him being the Palpatine of the new trilogy, but I hope there's more to him than 'I'm a powerful Dark Side user and I happen to be the leader of the First Order' because that would make him very much like the Emperor.
I LOVED the lightsaber battle. The scenery was incredible (snow/night) and I was super glad they didn't overdo the pyrotechnics. All 3 of them (Finn, Kylo and Ren) had this amateurish feel to them that made it very real. They actually hurt their opponents, instead of just cutting hands or chopping bodies in half. It was raw, it was exciting and it was epic without being a highly athletic Episode I Darth Maul jumping bonanza. Also, I think it was an amazing ending because it left be craving for more. I was super expecting a glorious ceremony like in Episode IV at the end, but was glad we didn't get one. The whole 'search for Luke' plot was one of the best things from the movie, I think.
All in all, excellent work JJ. Maybe you played a little bit too safely, but this is one Star Wars film I will watch many times in the near future (unlike Episodes I and II lel).
-
I think Kylo Ren's development and the time he got made him a more interesting villain than Darth Vader was in IV. Before someone says I'm crazy, I think Vader really grew as a character over the 3 original films, but in the classic he shows up and you don't learn that much about him (until later), but Kylo Ren had some really interesting scenes and felt very much like the character Anakin should have been in the prequels, at least towards the end of him becoming Vader.
-
I think Kylo Ren's development and the time he got made him a more interesting villain than Darth Vader was in IV. Before someone says I'm crazy, I think Vader really grew as a character over the 3 original films, but in the classic he shows up and you don't learn that much about him (until later), but Kylo Ren had some really interesting scenes and felt very much like the character Anakin should have been in the prequels, at least towards the end of him becoming Vader.
True. As a matter of fact, as much as Darth Vader was loved in Episode IV for his imposing physique and badass force choking, he didn't get much development or screen time. Tarkin was the true evil guy in that film, and it was not until Episode V that Darth Vader became the ultimate badass in the Star Wars universe.
-
Honestly I prefer Kylo Ren over Darth Vader already. Don't get me wrong, I love the OG Sith Lord, but I was really fascinated with how the film handled Kylo. He's a complex villain that wants to be a black-and-white villain instead.
-
Oh, and my other theory solidifying in my mind that Rey is Luke's daughter is that R2 awoke when Rey discovered her powers. The connection between RD and that lineage is strong. It would also make sense that Luke would hide her away to protect as that was what was done with him and his sister.
I like this thought. It does make sense as to why R2-D2 just "suddenly" decided to wake up.
Fantastic movie. We've been waiting 30-odd years for a GOOD Star Wars movie (considering how abysmal the prequel trilogy as a whole was). I can't wait to see it again.
-
Honestly I prefer Kylo Ren over Darth Vader already. Don't get me wrong, I love the OG Sith Lord, but I was really fascinated with how the film handled Kylo. He's a complex villain that wants to be a black-and-white villain instead.
Agreed. It was nice watching a villain that was being tempted by the light instead of the opposite.
-
Saw it a second time tonight. This theater was uncomfortably hot, and my friend (who had worked a lot the entire week and kept saying how tired he was before I dragged him along) kept falling asleep. I had to push him a few times when he started snoring.
The movie was still awesome though.
-
I thought it was somewhere between the prequels and the original trilogy. The new characters were all really good, but the plot was way too fast paced and coincidence driven, and several scenes were just plain awkward at best and poorly developed at worst. The conversation where Han and Leah discuss Kylo has got to be one of the weirdest, info-dumpy scenes in all 7 movies. Han and Leah together where just plain flat.
Also, it feels like they leaned heavily on A New Hope, and that isn't always a good thing. I guess from Abrams I should have expected a skin-deep lightning paced fan service heavy action flick, but deep down I was hoping for something a bit more substantial.
On the positive side, the new characters have a lot of potential and I think Luke's entry into the series is going to turn out really great. Something tells me VIII is the true "new" Star Wars and VII was a bridge to bring back old fans. VIII has potential to be a really great movie.
I pretty much agree - at no point did I feel surprised by anything and it basically felt like ANH reworked.
I really need to see it again as my son was in my ear the whole movie which was a huge distraction..... and he took us on a toilet break too. Overall I enjoyed it but rate it below all 3 of the originals. It was just too predictable and too many nice coincidences.
A few other things that struck me as negative:
- Two characters/actors to me were missing the screen presence of the others (Poe - more so early on and General Hux).
- Finn was far too impressive in the light saber battle
- some of the geographical CGI was a bit too fake for my liking. They went big but I would rather keep it a bit less ambitious and more realistic.
Solo dying was entirely predictable but still got to me.......as he was always my favourite character as a kid. My little boy got a bit upset for a minute .
It would be interesting to know the proper story behind the map. I hope there is a grand plan there from Luke where R2D2 was unknowingly reactivated by Rey with that in mind (even though The First Order had managed to get their hands on all but the missing piece anyway).
All in all I thought it was a very good re-introduction to the series (I basically ignored the prequels) but for mine it is just too derivative of ANH to be considered a classic. Hopefully it sets us up for that next time around.
-
Came in with very low expectations and was pleasantly surprised by how good it was. Yeah there were obvious parallels to ANH, but I didn't think it made me enjoy the movie any less.
I also thought the little nostalgic moments where they threw stuff from the OT on we're really well done. It wasn't like the Hobbit where I was literally cringing in my seat, it was more like "hey look there's the droid Luke used to train with on the Falcon. That's cool." Much better job of that than the Hobbit.
Overall, I'd probably put this on par with Ep. VI. There wasn't anything as stupid as the Ewoks, but it was a little too safe to make it on par with IV or V. So much better than the prequels.
-
I'm not going to repeatedly engage with this thread because I know my opinions are so far out of step with most people's and I don't really care to incessantly defend them. But just so there's a voice here saying this:
I'm a huge George Lucas purist. Love all six films. Love what Lucas built. Never wanted this. Never wanted any of this.
Revenge of the Sith is my favorite. Return of the Jedi is my second favorite. Those are an easy top two.
Did not much care for this on first viewing. Thought that there was pretty good stuff but some pretty bad stuff too. The power creep was really bad. I did not find it all credible that they found out about this super powerful weapon, planned an attack in the first five minutes after they learned of its existence, and it worked. Some of the lines made the film badly out of touch with Lucas's films, tonally. On balance, I would say that it was a good action film, but not near the level of the Original Sextet's genius. It was probably better as a standalone film than The Phantom Menace, probably equivalent to Attack of the Clones. Cannot step to anything III through VI. And I and II are far, far, far better when everything viewed in the broader context of the saga.
So pretty much what I should have expected, if I had any expectations at all, which I'm not sure I did.
I'll end up seeing it again soon, I'm sure. My genuine hope is to like this film and be able to appreciate the new series as a solid continuation, even if it's one that I don't really personally view as canon in the same way that I see the six as canon. But that may not happen, depending on how important the flaws are to me.
-
So I'm curious where you guys stand on it after having seen the film.. I say Rey is definitely Luke Skywalker's daughter.
Apart from the fact that she is really strong with the force, I think there were several parts of the film that really hinted strongly towards that. For example, her connection to the Luke/Anakin lightsaber. The fact that her parents left her, simultaneously as Luke vanished to go into hiding. I would even say the way Luke looked at her in the end. It was only briefly, but it didn't feel like "Who is this random girl handing me my lightsaber?", it felt almost like he recognized her.
My guess would be that after the Knights of Ren turned on Luke, he had to go on his mission, and maybe he did a mind swipe with the force to protect Rey and he left her on the safest planet in his eyes, a dump like Jakku, which in several parts of the movie is referenced like a really bad place you don't want to go to. It also makes sense why it wasn't Tatooine again. I guess we'll get more insight in Episode 8 if this is the case, but she has to be a Skywalker and Leia/Han never mentioned having a daughter, so I think we can cross that off the list, and that leaves Luke IMO. Sure, I know some people say that if Luke did indeed have a child, he broke the jedi code and so on. What if, Luke had a child, then after seeing the Knights of Ren turn on him so easily and going dark, he was afraid he would fall to the dark side as well, so the only thing he knew was to go into hiding at the first Jedi temple, maybe find a bigger purpose or just meditate. Maybe he planned on returning to his daughter but he didn't complete his mission yet.
-
- Finn was far too impressive in the light saber battle
I thought this the first time as well, but have pretty much changed my mind after seeing it a second time. Kylo was injured, and even then the fight with Finn doesn't even look all that challenging to him. And it was over much more quickly than I remembered.
Not even gonna comment on 425's post.
-
Zantera- I think the evidence you posted about Rey being Luke's daughter is solid. And, it'd stick with the underlying theme of the Star Wars series Anakin/ Luke, Leia/ now Ren and Rey.....all being the same lineage.
Part of me wants it 'not' to be the case because of how 'simple' that explanation is as to why the Force is so strong with her. It'd be neat if there were a different explanation but it'll be interesting to see how they explain and tell the story of her being Luke's daughter if that's indeed the case.
-
She's also a really good pilot, like the entire lineage
-
I doubt Rey is Luke's daughter. Jedi are supposed to be unmarried and childless, right? I'd sooner think is Rey is Han and Leia's.
-
There's this one little thing that has been bugging me quite a bit... wasn't the blue Luke/Anakin lightsaber blasted to oblivion by Darth Vader in Episode V?
-
I doubt Rey is Luke's daughter. Jedi are supposed to be unmarried and childless, right?
Like that ever stopped anyone.
There's this one little thing that has been bugging me quite a bit... wasn't the blue Luke/Anakin lightsaber blasted to oblivion by Darth Vader in Episode V?
Yeah, it fell down the Cloud City mega chasm along with Luke's severed hand. When Han asked Maz how she got it she just said "a good question, for another time". It seems that they have at least thought about. Maybe we'll know in a future movie, maybe we'll never find out how. Either way it doesn't really bother me.
-
Another thing I remembered struck me was how forgettable the soundtrack is. This is the first Star Wars movie without a new memorable theme. While watching, I recognized that Kylo had a theme, but it was like a three note motif. It's kindof disappointing; even the prequels had that. :lol
-
After listening through John William's score twice on Spotify, I'd say that the score is really good. Kylo's theme is pretty badass (and it's 5 (arguably 6) notes). And there are a few rather memorable themes, especially those connected to Rey. So I kinda disagree with you there, just give it more time.
Although, the one thing about the score I miss is a choir. There are some really epic bits in the prequels' scores where the choir really makes it seem so grand.
-
I ADORED IT!!
I have to say that Rey is one of the best characters in the Star Wars universe...maybe giving Yoda a run for his money. With the possible exception of Katniss from The Hunger Games, sci-fi/fantasy is grossly lacking in strong female characters. As much as I think that most "feminists" come across as bitter (or worse yet, as vegans), I often think they have some valid points about the lack of strong, independent female characters...and even Katniss, for all her strength, has a tendency to rely on a male counterpart as some sort of emotional rescue. Unlike Rey's character which immediately set the tone with "WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO TAKE MY HAND??" This has totally broken the mold and set a brand new standard for strong female leads in an sci-fi/fantasy/action environment.
Loved everyone's thoughts about Kylo... The unmasking was quite shocking at first, because I was expecting someone who was older, and possibly deformed or scarred. Instead, it was, "Oh, he's just a nice Jewish boy..." :rollin But I'm totally on board with what everyone is saying about his character only proving that Anakin could have been *FAR* better written. He is what Anakin should have been. They left in all the teenage rebellion, insecurities, temper tantrums, and anger about things that don't make any sense...and took out all the whining. :rollin Also, it was a very good call about his light saber being not well defined and all static-y and stuff.
And guys....guys....guys... Doesn't this make the hilt make so much more sense? Everyone was right! The hilt WAS stupid and meaningless. But who else would do that except a dumb kid who was just trying to look cool? It's like he put that in there to over-compensate for other things. How many kids build things more out of "it looks cool" rather than practicality. It TOTALLY fit the character.
I'm more in the very old school crowd (saw ANH in theaters when I was 8yrs old) but I'm thinking that this is equal to, and possibly even surpasses the OT. Jury is still out, but it's in the ball park.
-
I doubt Rey is Luke's daughter. Jedi are supposed to be unmarried and childless, right?
Only if you give a shit about the prequels. :tdwn
But in all seriousness, I think Luke's vision of a Jedi Order would be pretty different from the ones shown in the prequels anyway. Part of the point of his victory in RotJ is that he tossed aside what Yoda and Obi-Wan wanted him to do (dispassionately kill Vader and Palpatine) and instead reached out to his father with love. Anakin's "attachment" (as the PT Jedi would call it) to his son was what saved the galaxy.
I ADORED IT!!
I have to say that Rey is one of the best characters in the Star Wars universe...maybe giving Yoda a run for his money. With the possible exception of Katniss from The Hunger Games, sci-fi/fantasy is grossly lacking in strong female characters. As much as I think that most "feminists" come across as bitter (or worse yet, as vegans), I often think they have some valid points about the lack of strong, independent female characters...and even Katniss, for all her strength, has a tendency to rely on a male counterpart as some sort of emotional rescue. Unlike Rey's character which immediately set the tone with "WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO TAKE MY HAND??" This has totally broken the mold and set a brand new standard for strong female leads in an sci-fi/fantasy/action environment.
Loved everyone's thoughts about Kylo... The unmasking was quite shocking at first, because I was expecting someone who was older, and possibly deformed or scarred. Instead, it was, "Oh, he's just a nice Jewish boy..." :rollin But I'm totally on board with what everyone is saying about his character only proving that Anakin could have been *FAR* better written. He is what Anakin should have been. They left in all the teenage rebellion, insecurities, temper tantrums, and anger about things that don't make any sense...and took out all the whining. :rollin Also, it was a very good call about his light saber being not well defined and all static-y and stuff.
And guys....guys....guys... Doesn't this make the hilt make so much more sense? Everyone was right! The hilt WAS stupid and meaningless. But who else would do that except a dumb kid who was just trying to look cool? It's like he put that in there to over-compensate for other things. How many kids build things more out of "it looks cool" rather than practicality. It TOTALLY fit the character.
I'm more in the very old school crowd (saw ANH in theaters when I was 8yrs old) but I'm thinking that this is equal to, and possibly even surpasses the OT. Jury is still out, but it's in the ball park.
Rey is amazing. What I loved about her is that she's essentially a Miyazaki female protagonist brought to life. Very reminiscent of Nausicaa and Sheeta, with just a dash or two of San or Kiki. I think she and Kylo Ren are both likely to become my two favorite SW characters ever.
Honestly, the film is currently second to only Empire- but I'm so damn tempted to call it a tie or put TFA past it. I will say that I think the ST is going to be the Star Wars equivalent of The Next Generation.
-
Oh yeah. What's up with C3PO's red arm? That was completely non-sequitur to me. Did I miss something?
-
Pretty sure that didn't have any meaning, just a fun detail.
-
I thought it was a nod to the fact that in pretty much every movie, in one way or another C3PO is either taken apart or loses a limb or two. Even in this film when he isn't in an accident, he still has a comical red arm that has replaced his original, which probably went missing in some similar weird accident. :P
-
Something to consider (some of you might have already) is that it wasn't so much that Rey suddenly had all this massive power of the force. Clearly she was just in the infancy of discovery and all....but we really don't know just how powerful Ren is?
We don't know when he left Luke? Sure, he's displayed that he has knowledge of the force and can certainly use it to his advantage....but he's been using it on and in front of people who have no power at all....so of course to them he's going to 'appear' like this all powerful being of sorts.
But when facing Rey, who the force flows through and she doesn't even 'realize' it.....he couldn't penetrate her mind despite his best efforts and even though she didn't recognize she was using the force she knew intuitively 'how' to use it in that occasion....and the saber duel. Speaking of which...we saw with the saber duel with Finn...Ren was still a tad rough around the edges and not polished at all in his dueling. Sure, he defeated Finn but it did take him a bit and Finn did score a good shot on him.
So I don't see it as Rey just suddenly caught up to this 'big bad' Kylo Ren in Force powers....I see it more as Ren although imposing on the outside....is maybe a notch higher than a beginner at this point in his force knowledge and ability. Certainly confident....a little too confident in his abilities as we saw.....and as Snoke saw.
-
Oh yeah. What's up with C3PO's red arm? That was completely non-sequitur to me. Did I miss something?
It's apparently explained in some prequel comic or something, but otherwise it's just a red arm. I guess they wanted to do something to show these weren't the same characters as they were in the OT.
-
Just got back from seeing this. I loved it to death. Won't be able to sleep for a bit because I'm still wired. Looking forward to seeing it a second time.
The only other thing I feel like saying is that, while there was a ton of fan service to A New Hope, I didn't feel the movie was "half reboot, half remake" as I saw one reviewer put it. I totally felt like TFA had it's own identify.
-
Saw it. Loved it. The nostalgia was overpowering, in a good way, and in sometimes unexpected ways.
One thing that was cool was that, at the theater where I saw it, they had characters from all three movies hanging around in various places outside the theater. There was Kylo Ren and a First Order Stormtrooper taking pics with kids over by the steakhouse next to the theater. There were a couple of speederbike stormtroopers on motorcycles over by the parking lot. And lots of other scattered around. It just set the tone before even getting into the theater.
After we got in early and got our seats, I got up to go get our popcorn, and passed a young girl on crutches with a leg cast. What does that have to do with anything? Just a completely unrelated personal nostalgia moment for me. The only other time in my life when I saw a Star Wars movie on release weekend was Return of the Jedi. Like this girl, I had to fight my way through a huge sea of people using crutches because I had broken my leg and had a leg cast. Just an interesting coicidence. Anyway...
Lots of other nostalgia as well. A lot of the big ones have either been mentioned or are so obvious that they don't need mentioning. But there were so many callbacks, and so many of them are so subtle. One that hit me that was so subtle that it could easily be missed is Han's body language when sneaking around in the First Order base almost exactly mirroring Obi Wan's when he was sneaking around the tractor beam control at the death star. Lots of little cool nuggets like that, and I am looking forward to finding all the ones I missed the first time around.
A few minor critiques. One, there really was too much crammed into one movie, and that made for a lot of things happening by sheer coincidence that could have been done better. It also led to some characters getting short shrift. For example, Captain whatshername. Maybe assuming she would have a more major role was my fault. But a woman in a silver stormtrooper suit seems to scream out that there is going to be something interesting there. There wasn't. Anyhow, minor flaws. I still loved it.
-
Captain Phasma apparently has a larger role in the next film. A lot of people expected her to be a more important character based on the merchandise and the awesome outfit, but I don't think the character was originally intended to be that important a role at all. Given how people took to the character before the movie, and the desire for more strong female characters, I think that will definitely be rectified in Ep VIII.
Poe Dameron was also supposed to be a much larger role, but it got scaled back when they rewrote the script for Han to play a bigger part, so he'll also be a much larger role in the next film.
Given how much they crammed into the 2 hours and 15 minutes run time, it's understandable not everything had time to get featured, but that's ok. Just look at how many of the big characters of the OT didn't even appear in ANH. Yoda, Boba Fett, Jabba (I'm not counting the SE), Lando, The Emperor, probably more (hopefully that list is right, as I haven't watched the originals in forever, and watched them all together). There are supposed to be a lot of new characters in Ep VIII too, so I expect it to be a lot less derivative, and start establishing its own world more.
-
Regarding the Ren/Rey discussion, I've seen several people complain that she could match him already. As I see it:
For starters, Ren was injured. He took a pretty bad hit from Chewie and you could see he was bleeding all over the place, which is arguably why he didn't beat down Finn in 2 seconds, but Finn managed to get a few swings before being defeated. But my main thought in all of this was, Ren is not a full on Sith like Vader was in A New Hope. He's an apprentice of the dark side who was on his way to becoming a Jedi and then turned, but if you stop and think for a second, a lot of the criticism about Ren being defeated by Rey comes from assuming that he's a powerful Sith that is unmatched in a lightsaber duel. What we know is that Luke was training a group of Jedi, who turned on him, and Kylo Ren was the main guy in this group. But how far into training was he?
If Luke was training new Jedi, it's not crazy to assume that he would use a lot of the same teachings that he got himself from Yoda, and as we all know, Yoda never trained Luke with a saber. To Yoda, becoming a Jedi and learning about the force was a whole thing on its own, and that the saber was just a tool. He probably had basic training, but then we get to the fact that Luke is described as the LAST Jedi, and he vanished after the Knights of Ren turned on him. So over the last 15 (?) years since Luke has vanished, Kylo Ren has basically been the Vader of the First Order, going in missions, storming into villages and flashing his lightsaber, but before he ended up in the duel with Finn and Rey, it's not far fetched to assume that Kylo Ren might not have been in a lightsaber duel since turning on Luke all those years ago, because Luke was the last Jedi and it's not like the galaxy was filled with Sith lords which he traveled around fighting either.
That leads into my final thought which is underestimating his opponent. Rey was not a worthy adversary in Ren's eyes, and so when they engaged in battle, he was taken off guard by her power. She may not have fought with a lightsaber before, but she was handling her staff really well, so she definitely had the moves learned fairly well. Also, with Kylo Ren mainly going around the galaxy and cutting down innocent civilians in villages they raided, it's not like he met any real opponent. When he stood against Rey, she was also strong with the force and he didn't expect it. So with Ren, this could very well have been his first "real" lightsaber duel (because of the lack of Jedi and Sith, and the lightsaber being a very rare weapon) since his training at least, and if you compare that to someone like Vader who was in the Clone Wars, who fought big opponents like Dooku and Obi-Wan, he definitely had the training and lightsaber skill down, and was therefor a much harder opponent for someone like Luke, who had zero experience in Empire Strikes Back.
-
Yeah, Kylo definetely had the physical force thing down, but wasn't nearly as skilled with the lightsaber. If he had faced Luke he would have gotten a good laser spanking.
-
Saw this Friday night and love it. My feelings pretty much echo everyone else's. It was awesome, with a few minor nitpicky things I didn't like. It definitely left me wanting more, which I guess is a good thing.
-
Zantera.....your comments and sentiment about the Rey/Ren dichotomy is exactly how I feel as well. there's no questions on Ren's talent and ability....but just how advanced (or not advanced) he is was exposed when Rey showed up with the Force on her side as well.
-
Guess we know why Han was promoted so much. ;)
And yes, there was way too much crammed into the movie and it moved through it all too fast. That being said, I loved it.
JJ's love of the franchise shown through throughout the film and it made me feel like a kid again.
Can't wait for the next one. :metal
-
Oh yeah. What's up with C3PO's red arm? That was completely non-sequitur to me. Did I miss something?
It's apparently explained in some prequel comic or something, but otherwise it's just a red arm. I guess they wanted to do something to show these weren't the same characters as they were in the OT.
My first thought: "Luke took C3POs arm :lol, yea that seems unlikely, just something I thought.
I echo what most have said, this was a christmas present to all SW fans over the world. Yea it pretty much was ANH but damn did it feel good seeing Han and Chewie and everybody else again.
Lots of goosebumps through the movie. Will see it again for sure!
-
Fun theory: Rey was a student of Luke and hand her mind wiped like Revan in KotOR.
-
Fun theory: Rey was a student of Luke and hand her mind wiped like Revan in KotOR.
Replace student with daughter and that's my thoughts. I think he trained his daughter (though not in the group that betrayed him) and once they turned on him, he left his daughter in a safe place with a mind wipe and went on his mission.
-
I personally think that the entire SW universe is inbred and everyone is each others dad/mom/son/daughter. :tup
-
Just saw the film. Way better than OT..... not as good at the PT (in my often beaten down opinion).
-
Just got back. I loved the cinematography of this film. Kylo Ren I liked a lot. You can see him wavering about ghetto dark and light side that I liked. Rey is a powerful female character. I love that and a great way to connect to the original series.
-
Just got back myself. Thought it was excellent, but I'm going to hold the opinion of being all gaga over it for time to allow me to help digest it. We all thought Ep 1 was great, because we had been starved for 15 years. Well, here we are again, 10 years starved, so let's not start suckin each others' dick's just yet, ok? It's only been 3 days - we're all still in the post "O" afterglow.
I'll be really shocked if Rey ISN'T Luke's daughter.
I was really shocked (and disappointed) Luke only had 30 seconds of screen time.
Ford did a TREMENDOUS job at rekindling Han Solo. He pulled it off perfectly.
They set Rey up as a competent hand-to-hand fighter early in the movie, so I'm not sure why people are having trouble buying into how - force assisted - she fought as well as she did against Ren
Rey is clearly quite powerful, to have the visions that she did in the dungeon at Maz's place just from touching the saber.
Ren is like the equivalent of a Sith-Padawan. Still so much to learn. Love all the comments so far about him; hated his voice. Considering how iconic James Earl-Jones made Darth Vader, Kylo's was a disappointment (imo). I'm also still not a big fan of Driver cast in that role.
The comedic elements were perfect... just perfect.
So much anticipation for Ep 8.
-
Just saw the film. Way better than OT..... not as good at the PT (in my often beaten down opinion).
I think you just hate Star Wars... :xbones
-
Opinions are opinions and so on, but whenever I see someone liking the prequels more than the OT I lose hope in humanity, just like when you read about civilians being killed in stupid terrorist bombings and so on.
-
That last comment is a little strong Jimmy.
I agree with what you are saying but damn son, that last part.
-
That last comment is a little strong Jimmy.
I agree with what you are saying but damn son, that last part.
Silly words on silly internets. It is what it is.
-
Did they ever explain why the Tie fighter got swallowed up by the sand? That was the only part that made no sense to me.
-
If I remember correctly, Rey said not to go a certain way to the bot, when traveling on that planet. "The sand will suck you in" or something like that.
-
Did they ever explain why the Tie fighter got swallowed up by the sand? That was the only part that made no sense to me.
When Rey gave instructions to BB-8 on how to find the village, she said something like "avoid X because you will sink in the sand there", so I assume that's where Finn/Poe crashed.
-
Yeah I remember that vaguely, but even if the sand will "suck you in", it probably wouldn't be super still for a minute and then two seconds later it's gone.
Very minor nitpick, but that was one of the few parts that annoyed me.
-
It was a little weird that it was sitting there fine while Finn walked up to it and grabbed the jacket, but then it just sunk in quickly and he was completely safe. It was well enough explained, it was just kinda poorly executed for dramatic effect.
-
Yeah I remember that vaguely, but even if the sand will "suck you in", it probably wouldn't be super still for a minute and then two seconds later it's gone.
Very minor nitpick, but that was one of the few parts that annoyed me.
But it's an alien world. Things don't work the same way. :P
-
so let's not start suckin each others' dick's just yet, ok? It's only been 3 days - we're all still in the post "O" afterglow.
Ehh....this film was head and shoulders above better than any of the prequels....like....this exposed the prequels for just how poor an effort of storytelling, writing....cinematography...acting....characters....EVERY aspect of film.....this sequel destroys those prequels in every film making aspect and verifies what the majority of humanity has known. The prequels sucked massive baboon balls. I say it's fine to begin the sucking..... :lol
-
The biggest way in which this exposes the prequels is Kylo Ren.
The prequels had actually convinced me that maybe Anakin's story should not have been told at all, and that was the problem. But Kylo Ren just proves (IN SPADES) that an immature, inexperienced, loose cannon CAN be portrayed as a well developed, well written and brilliantly performed character.
So yes, even though I thought the prequels were below par, this new movie exposed just how truly bad they are.
-
Being better than the prequels isn't even an achievement worth mentioning. TFA wasn't necessary to realize the full depths of how awful the PT is.
I agree with Chad. The new movie was great, nobody is arguing against that, but let's not go overboard just because it's the first decent Star Wars movie in over 30 years either. :lol
To put it into perspective, the current user rating on imdb would put it tied with ESB as the best movie. It's very good, but is it that good? (hey, some people will think so, and that's fine too)
When all is said and done, it will still easily be considered better than all of the prequels, but it's too early to really judge it against the real movies. I actually don't think we'll be able to fully judge it until we at least have the next movie to begin to fit it into the larger puzzle of the new trilogy. There are too many points left in the air for me at this point.
-
Only time will tell if it *matches* ESB, but as a seasoned veteran, I'm pretty comfortable in placing it at least at #2 (above ANH and just behind ESB).
-
For me the movie is just far too blatantly derivative of the OT to touch it, but I still enjoyed it for what it was. I expect the next movie to be much better now that the groundwork has been set, and without JJ as involved.
-
I see the "framework" that you speak of...but Finn, Rey, Kylo....they were all FAR more original and complex characters (and better written) than *anything at all* in the OT. Rey by herself may be the most groundbreaking female action lead in action movie history. Not even Katniss reaches her level of individuality and independence.
-
I see the "framework" that you speak of...but Finn, Rey, Kylo....they were all FAR more original and complex characters (and better written) than *anything at all* in the OT. Rey by herself may be the most groundbreaking female action lead in action movie history. Not even Katniss reaches her level of individuality and independence.
I agree with just about all of that. Rey is a tremendous force (pun intended) and a hell of a female lead. I loved the execution of Finn's character as well. Going from a Storm Trooper to helping the resistance.
Not sold on Snoke.... like at all.
-
I see the "framework" that you speak of...but Finn, Rey, Kylo....they were all FAR more original and complex characters (and better written) than *anything at all* in the OT. Rey by herself may be the most groundbreaking female action lead in action movie history. Not even Katniss reaches her level of individuality and independence.
Rey's backstory is pretty similar to Luke (perhaps more so depending on her lineage), but I do agree the new major characters were very well done, which is why I do feel that the future movies will be great now that they've set those characters on their paths to change and growth. I liked all of those new characters a lot, and think they'll be fantastic additions to Star Wars lore.
But the plot of this movie itself was almost a remake of Star Wars, and I'm still concerned that there was barely an original design in sight, mostly being slight reworkings of OT designs, or raiding Mcquarrie's original designs.
I appreciate that at this point they wanted something old and familiar to ease people back into Star Wars after the trainwreck that was the prequels, but now that everyone's convinced this is just like old Star Wars, they really need to make it new Star Wars for the next one, and I expect they will from what we know of Ep VIII so far.
My point here isn't to criticize, because I'm onboard with what they've set up, but they need to capitalize on all of the new elements they've set up before I'd compare this to the OT. I absolutely do believe the potential is there though. :tup
-
Not sold on Snoke.... like at all.
For me it's directly tied to the CGI aspect. I think they could have pulled off Snoke without the overt CGI.....it just hit too big a nerve with me because it reminded me of the massive thing I detested about the prequels....the F'n CGI lovefest. Had they toned it down a bit and it not bee SO obvious CGI, I'd have been more sold.
-
Not sold on Snoke.... like at all.
For me it's directly tied to the CGI aspect. I think they could have pulled off Snoke without the overt CGI.....it just hit too big a nerve with me because it reminded me of the massive thing I detested about the prequels....the F'n CGI lovefest. Had they toned it down a bit and it not bee SO obvious CGI, I'd have been more sold.
I found Snoke's CGI offputting (and not in the intended way due to his deformity). I didn't think the CG was all that good for him either compared to other recent movies. Nothing at all wrong with CGI, but I felt it was behind the curve. I think they were rushed, so hopefully they improve him for the next movie.
-
I see the "framework" that you speak of...but Finn, Rey, Kylo....they were all FAR more original and complex characters (and better written) than *anything at all* in the OT. Rey by herself may be the most groundbreaking female action lead in action movie history. Not even Katniss reaches her level of individuality and independence.
Rey's backstory is pretty similar to Luke (perhaps more so depending on her lineage), but I do agree the new major characters were very well done, which is why I do feel that the future movies will be great now that they've set those characters on their paths to change and growth. I liked all of those new characters a lot, and think they'll be fantastic additions to Star Wars lore.
But the plot of this movie itself was almost a remake of Star Wars, and I'm still concerned that there was barely an original design in sight, mostly being slight reworkings of OT designs, or raiding Mcquarrie's original designs.
I appreciate that at this point they wanted something old and familiar to ease people back into Star Wars after the trainwreck that was the prequels, but now that everyone's convinced this is just like old Star Wars, they really need to make it new Star Wars for the next one, and I expect they will from what we know of Ep VIII so far.
My point here isn't to criticize, because I'm onboard with what they've set up, but they need to capitalize on all of the new elements they've set up before I'd compare this to the OT. I absolutely do believe the potential is there though. :tup
I think it was a brilliant move on their part to have the similarity and it accomplished exactly what they wanted. It got those of us with the bad taste of the prequels in our mouths back on board and pumped.....I don't see Episode VIII being verbatim ESB.....but I do think Luke will go down in the same manner Obi Wan did....right in front of Rey and at his choosing while facing Ren.
-
I had a few gripes with some of the CGI ,but as far as Snoke goes I was thinking that he was only shown in hologram form and therefore I didn't feel I could judge the CGI as harshly on that one.
-
I think it was a brilliant move on their part to have the similarity and it accomplished exactly what they wanted. It got those of us with the bad taste of the prequels in our mouths back on board and pumped.....I don't see Episode VIII being verbatim ESB.....but I do think Luke will go down in the same manner Obi Wan did....right in front of Rey and at his choosing while facing Ren.
I understand totally why they did it, and it was a smart move that worked, but it's also a bit sad on some level that people are praising it so universally right now given that it was kind of a cover version of Star Wars featuring the original musicians.
As I said, I enjoyed the movie a lot, and I'm still hoping it smashes the shit out of Avatar's box office record, I just really hope the future of the franchise has a lot more to offer than recycling the OT. If they can keep the characters from becoming reworkings of the OT (such as killing off Luke in the same way as Obi Wan, which would be an obvious and tired move), then they'll definitely succeed at that. The movie set up so much potential for Finn, Rey, Ren, and Poe, and they'll have more room to work with now that they're done covering the basics of what happened in the past 30+ years.
-
Not sold on Snoke.... like at all.
For me it's directly tied to the CGI aspect. I think they could have pulled off Snoke without the overt CGI.....it just hit too big a nerve with me because it reminded me of the massive thing I detested about the prequels....the F'n CGI lovefest. Had they toned it down a bit and it not bee SO obvious CGI, I'd have been more sold.
I found Snoke's CGI offputting (and not in the intended way due to his deformity). I didn't think the CG was all that good for him either compared to other recent movies. Nothing at all wrong with CGI, but I felt it was behind the curve. I think they were rushed, so hopefully they improve him for the next movie.
I'm not sold on him based on the plot of the film, not the CGI. Palpatine lite did nothing for me.
-
Yikes. To me this just exhibited how good the prequels were, especially Revenge of the Sith, by not notably exceeding them in any way (besides exceeding them in disregard for continuity). Not easy to just replicate a good thing without the original creator.
This is a fine film, but parts of it unfortunately don't make much sense from a plot or continuity perspective. Everyone is overpowered. If Palpatine and Yoda can't read minds, no one should be able to, ever. Let alone some emotionally volatile twenty-something who casually allows himself to get shot and then loses a lightsaber duel to an untrained person in the actual first time that person has ever used a lightsaber. And if Anakin and Luke can't execute a Jedi mind trick on the third try and a perfect Force pull on the first try with no training, no one should be able to, ever. Let alone someone who can barely remember that the Force exists. The Starkiller base was way overpowered technologically for what is basically supposed to be an inferior spinoff of the Empire to build. It was also confusing as to what it does. Does it shoot its weapon faster than light? Because that's what it seems to do, which is way overpowered. And then the Resistance took like ten minutes to make a plan to destroy this thing, a plan that relied on the incorrect information that Finn actually knew how to do anything other than sanitation, and it still worked. None of this is really that credible given the foundation that Lucas laid in six films.
The writing was also not great, compared to Revenge of the Sith especially. That film has massive emotional peaks and valleys that are created by Lucas's great instinct for plot and some very well-drawn characters. It was also flawlessly paced and excellent from start to finish.
This one had a very promising first half that led to a rather weakly-written middle section, and then brought it back with a nice ending. But that weak middle section (I'm referring, approximately, to the part between the Millennium Falcon landing on Maz's planet and the reunion of Rey with Finn, Han and Chewie) drags the thing down as a whole. If the bridge between the first half or so and the final twenty minutes was executed better and fixed some of the objections I had, I would have no qualms about placing this fifth among the Star Wars films, behind the amazing ROTS and ROTJ and the very good ESB and ANH. But as is, it plotted more poorly than Attack of the Clones and rates only marginally better in dialogue and action.
If you want to hit Lucas for some of his dialogue, that's fair and, in some cases, warranted. But you can't do that and then pretend like the conversation between Han and Leia in the rebel base isn't the most awkwardly handled bit of exposition ever shoved into a Star Wars film.
I liked this movie, I really did. I've already seen it twice, and I'll probably go at least one more time while it's in theaters. This is more about me being aware of the flaws of this film and defensive of what I think are the wrongly maligned prequels (especially Revenge of the Sith, which I think is a film that is obviously at least as strong as A New Hope to anyone who takes off the blinders of nostalgia).
And of George Lucas, who made all of this possible and gets unjustly treated like absolute garbage by the fans.
-
I don't think that any of the prequels are particularly great, but I will say this: I think that certain aspects of the prequels are needlessly picked apart, and I've seen some people do that with The Force Awakens as well. The originals, specifically A New Hope and Empire, are great, but are handled with kid gloves sometimes. You could pick them apart if you wanted, but people don't want to, and I think that's fine. I don't personally have any interest in picking them apart, but I don't have any interest in picking apart any of the other films either. If people are going to look for problems in every scene of The Force Awakens, I think they should be fair and do the same to the originals too.
-
If Palpatine and Yoda can't read minds, no one should be able to, ever. Let alone some emotionally volatile twenty-something who casually allows himself to get shot and then loses a lightsaber duel to an untrained person in the actual first time that person has ever used a lightsaber. And if Anakin and Luke can't execute a Jedi mind trick on the third try and a perfect Force pull on the first try with no training, no one should be able to, ever. Let alone someone who can barely remember that the Force exists.
(https://s24.postimg.org/8q4boamqr/getsfgyr.gif)
I don't think that any of the prequels are particularly great, but I will say this: I think that certain aspects of the prequels are needlessly picked apart, and I've seen some people do that with The Force Awakens as well. The originals, specifically A New Hope and Empire, are great, but are handled with kid gloves sometimes. You could pick them apart if you wanted, but people don't want to, and I think that's fine. I don't personally have any interest in picking them apart, but I don't have any interest in picking apart any of the other films either. If people are going to look for problems in every scene of The Force Awakens, I think they should be fair and do the same to the originals too.
Everything on the internet is picked apart needlessly.
However, upon entering the domain of DTF, that aspect should be multiplied by around 1927582.1846.
-
I think it was a brilliant move on their part to have the similarity and it accomplished exactly what they wanted. It got those of us with the bad taste of the prequels in our mouths back on board and pumped.....I don't see Episode VIII being verbatim ESB.....but I do think Luke will go down in the same manner Obi Wan did....right in front of Rey and at his choosing while facing Ren.
I understand totally why they did it, and it was a smart move that worked, but it's also a bit sad on some level that people are praising it so universally right now given that it was kind of a cover version of Star Wars featuring the original musicians.
As I said, I enjoyed the movie a lot, and I'm still hoping it smashes the shit out of Avatar's box office record, I just really hope the future of the franchise has a lot more to offer than recycling the OT. If they can keep the characters from becoming reworkings of the OT (such as killing off Luke in the same way as Obi Wan, which would be an obvious and tired move), then they'll definitely succeed at that. The movie set up so much potential for Finn, Rey, Ren, and Poe, and they'll have more room to work with now that they're done covering the basics of what happened in the past 30+ years.
From what Abrams said in an interview I read (Ill try to dig it up) Riann Johnson was on set and very involved in the day to day with Episode 7 and asked for certain aspects of his plan for Ep. VIII to be dropped here and there. Abrams said he has worked with Johnson and Trevorrow to help with the continuity of the three movies.
In this interview:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2015/12/13/jj-abrams-star-wars-the-force-awakens/76911016/
Abrams perfectly explains IMO why there is so much familiarity but also points out....as we all know....there is plenty of originality.
I think the next movie is going to be darker....going to be less 'giddy' and a bit more serious in overall tone.
-
So like Episode V Gary?! :lol
-
So like Episode V Gary?! :lol
Pretty much :lol
-
Awesome film. I felt many more emotions vs. the other six films, which is a testament to Abrams and crew. As others said, the characters are so much developed or focused on. I got on much more with Ren vs Vader. Vader is just there, boom, I'm cool. Not for me; he only was a good character to me at the end of Ep6.
However, a knock is the obvious ADTOE approach to re-doing Ep4. Also, I am starting to despise Abrams a bit- he borrows heavily from _____ film for his franchise reboots. See new Star Treks re-visiting Wrath of Khan over two films.
-
Blob, you may feel differently, but as I get older, I'm really looking at stories and films in the light of Alfred Hitchcock's "McGuffin" comments.
I'm going from memory, but he essentially stated that the *entire story* was inconsequential. The entire world in which the characters reside and what they are up against is nothing but a giant McGuffin. ....an excuse to develop the characters, and a place for the audience to get to know the characters.
This is exactly where the prequels fail and the new movie succeeds. Lucas focused more on the world, and didn't give a crap about the characters. This movie was completely about the characters. They could have borrowed even more from ANH, and as long as the characters were intriguing, well written, well developed and original, it really wouldn't matter. The Death Star is a McGuffin, as is the rebel base, the desert planet, the X-Wing trench fight...all of it.
-
This is exactly where the prequels fail and the new movie succeeds. Lucas focused more on the world, and didn't give a crap about the characters. This movie was completely about the characters. They could have borrowed even more from ANH, and as long as the characters were intriguing, well written, well developed and original, it really wouldn't matter. The Death Star is a McGuffin, as is the rebel base, the desert planet, the X-Wing trench fight...all of it.
This is interesting, because I totally agree that this is the strong point of the new movie. It's at its best when it's developing characters, particularly new characters. The most well-executed parts of the film are the ones that develop Rey and Finn as characters. Some of the Han and Leia development is a bit clumsy and that's the film's weak spot, but it does, really, really well at bringing Rey and Finn to life.
But I think this is exactly where I, II and III succeed. Even more so than IV, V and VI at times (Anakin and Obi-Wan are at least as interesting as Luke and Han, and Padmé is miles more interesting than Leia). This is exactly what they do an absolutely amazing job of. Lucas had the monumental task of explaining how "a good friend" of Obi-Wan's became the most feared villain in the galaxy. And he did exactly that and more. Some of the big complaints levied at the prequels are that The Phantom Menace is irrelevant or that Lucas did not show enough about the Clone Wars. But the exact point was what you were saying: the story itself was inconsequential compared to the development of the characters! Yes, he lovingly developed the world, as he did to an equal extent in the other Original Sextet films, and as Abrams did to an equal extent in The Force Awakens. But that does not mean he neglected the characters! There are so many complex and important pieces of character development in those movies, too many to name.
But just as an example, think about this: Everyone complained that Attack of the Clones had too long of a slow section in the middle with regard to the love story. If what you're saying is true and Lucas cared more about the world than the characters, why would he include this long part of the movie that hardly touches on world-building at all and is exclusively devoted to character development? Beyond that, why do the long sequences in Revenge of the Sith that are set entirely on Coruscant and mostly in rather uninteresting or familiar environments if the reason is not character development?
I'm not saying this just to be contrary, though I am trying to contradict a narrative that claims that three of the original six movies are complete garbage. A narrative that just doesn't make sense when you look at all the films. And what is most annoying to me about the release of this new film is that it has provided an opportunity for people who haven't seen or commented seriously on them in ten years (not necessarily referring to anyone here, but in general) to continue to slam I, II and III as though they're the worst things ever made (which is an absolutely preposterous idea, especially regarding Episode III—I wonder sometimes if people who hated it were watching a different movie).
-
I didn't think the romance section was "too long"....I thought it felt thrown together as an afterthought. Like they had just finished a two hour movie and realized that the two main characters were *supposed* to be falling in love, and they had done absolutely zero to endear them to one another. So quick, throw together a two minute montage (followed by a full minute of him criticizing her entire political view....ahhhh young love).
Likewise, Obi-Wan and Anakin's "friendship" was never developed or elaborated on, we were simply told to believe that these two were best friends because the film told us so. NOT because they took the time to actually develop the friendship. Their history together was essentially relegated to an exposition monolog in an elevator.
I think the second movie should have been "a buddy film". At least that would have developed the friendship of the characters so that the friendship falling apart had some form of impact in the third movie. Never happened. No relationship was ever truly developed in the writing or direction of the film. We were expected to accept that characters had a relationship with one another because they said so. Anakin and Padme never fell in love, they just said they were in love.
EDIT: There was more emotional development between Finn and Rey in a single film than there was between Anakin and ANYONE in *THREE* films.
-
Looks like I am going to have to watch I to III properly as my son now wants to get into the PT. And ever since someone mentioned how annoying JJB is , he wants to talk about him all the time :lol
I have watched the majority of the PT (zoned in and out while watching DVDs) , but in what I have watched I found Hayden Christensen pretty much unbearable . Not a great starting point there whether I end up liking the character development or not.
As I mentioned, I think the new movie has its drawbacks and I rate it below the whole OT , but one thing I think they got right (esp. with Rey) was the casting.
-
I didn't think the romance section was "too long"....I thought it felt thrown together as an afterthought. Like they had just finished a two hour movie and realized that the two main characters were *supposed* to be falling in love, and they had done absolutely zero to endear them to one another. So quick, throw together a two minute montage (followed by a full minute of him criticizing her entire political view....ahhhh young love).
I think that sells Lucas way short. It's not a two minute montage. There are multiple scenes spread across the movie that result in a rather complex romantic plot. It's not just they hang out together, he criticizes her political views, and suddenly they're in love. At the beginning of the movie, he's very infatuated, and she totally rejects his advances ("Don't look at me like that"). Then they're put together. They discuss the topic of love, and she reminds him that he's not allowed to love as a Jedi. He carves out a loophole and leaves it at that for the time being. Later, he kisses her, she goes with it for a second (showing that she is interested), then she pulls away. They clearly have romantic feelings in further interactions, but when he confronts her with his feelings, she rejects him, saying it's inappropriate due to her position as a Senator and his as a Jedi. She rejects the idea of a secret affair because of the potential emotional impacts. She only admits that she loves him when she believes that they will both die, kissing him at that time. And once they survive, it's too late to go back. They marry at the end of the movie.
That's not a simple plot that's shoehorned in. That's complex. There are a lot of factors involved, and it reveals a lot about the characters: Anakin's bold personality and his tendency to get carried away by his passions, Padmé's deep emotions that are tempered by a caution for the pragmatic. Not exactly boy meets girl. This is complex and integral to the film and the saga as a whole.
Likewise, Obi-Wan and Anakin's "friendship" was never developed or elaborated on, we were simply told to believe that these two were best friends because the film told us so. NOT because they took the time to actually develop the friendship. Their history together was essentially relegated to an exposition monolog in an elevator.
I think the second movie should have been "a buddy film". At least that would have developed the friendship of the characters so that the friendship falling apart had some form of impact in the third movie. Never happened. No relationship was ever truly developed in the writing or direction of the film. We were expected to accept that characters had a relationship with one another because they said so. Anakin and Padme never fell in love, they just said they were in love.
I never had trouble buying them as close friends. All their interactions in the first half of Revenge of the Sith, on top of their more master-apprentice interactions in Attack of the Clones, totally sold me on that. Honestly, I far more readily believe that Anakin and Obi-Wan are close friends after Attack of the Clones than I believe that Han and Luke are close friends at the beginning of The Empire Strikes Back. Han going out to save Luke from the cold in that movie are the first time I really see their friendship cemented. Similar to Anakin carrying Obi-Wan out of the Invisible Hand on his back.
It's obvious throughout Revenge of the Sith that Obi-Wan is Anakin's closest friend and confidant. There's tons of interaction between the two in the opening sequence and on Coruscant that shows this.
Anakin and Padmé fall in love in Attack of the Clones. It is shown, visually, on screen, as well as you could possibly imagine a movie being able to show two people fall in love. Just as you visually see Han and Leia fall in love in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.
EDIT: There was more emotional development between Finn and Rey in a single film than there was between Anakin and ANYONE in *THREE* films.
Padmé, Obi-Wan, Palpatine.
I have watched the majority of the PT (zoned in and out while watching DVDs) , but in what I have watched I found Hayden Christensen pretty much unbearable . Not a great starting point there whether I end up liking the character development or not.
I mean, I get not liking him. But what I don't get is that he is potentially unlikeable in the exact same way that Mark Hamill is potentially unlikeable. "I was going to go to Toche Station to pick up some power converters" is as whiny as anything Hayden says.
No offense to anyone who is disagreeing with me, but how long has it been since you've actually seen I, II and II? I last saw them 10, 9 and 8 days ago, respectively. I'm saying this because I think some people probably haven't seen any of them in 9 or 10 years, and obviously there can be a tendency to forget films in that time period.
-
I wasn't fussed about being whiny - just zero screen presence IMHO - something that I never felt about Mark Hamill. All just opinions though............
I will watch them properly with my son and see if I can get past the lead actor annoying the crap out of me ;D
-
I have seen them several times...and recently.
I'm just not seeing what you see....at all. I watch them for the visual eye candy. I love the pod race, I love the Darth Maul light saber duel (still the best duel in all 7 films), I love most the the action sequences in general (even though most of them feel like I'm watching a really elaborate video game instead of a movie).
Basically, Lucas was paying homage to the Flash Gordon seriels (among others) of the 40's and 50's. He managed to transcend it with the first film, and then other people made the idea even better, while keeping the feel. Then he took full control and decided to take it back to the seriel level of bad acting and poor plot points, plot holes, and horrendous character development, and put it all into a really fun CGI world that happened to look really neat.
They are fun to watch, but the story is so poorly executed that it's hard to even view it as canon. It's like he didn't even watch the OT before writing the PT. Things that make sense in the OT are totally contradicted by things that make NO sense in the PT.
-
No offense to anyone who is disagreeing with me, but how long has it been since you've actually seen I, II and II? I last saw them 10, 9 and 8 days ago, respectively. I'm saying this because I think some people probably haven't seen any of them in 9 or 10 years, and obviously there can be a tendency to forget films in that time period.
I tried watching Ep I on TV a within the last year, and it was unwatchable shit that would be deservedly lost to time already if it didn't have the words "Star Wars" in the title.
-
I'm just not seeing what you see....at all.
I could say the same.
Basically, Lucas was paying homage to the Flash Gordon seriels (among others) of the 40's and 50's. He managed to transcend it with the first film, and then other people made the idea even better, while keeping the feel.
Yeah, this was what it was about in 1977. It's since become much more than that. George Lucas's Star Wars is an intricately structured six-part saga that tells the story of the rise, fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker, as well as the fall of a Republic, rise of an Empire, and eventual destruction of that empire. It's an epic story of the conflict between good and evil not only in the world, but also within individuals and institutions. That's what the whole saga, I through VI, achieves.
Then he took full control and decided to take it back to the seriel level of bad acting and poor plot points, plot holes, and horrendous character development, and put it all into a really fun CGI world that happened to look really neat
It is often claimed that Lucas seized control of the prequel trilogy, and I think (though this doesn't directly relate to the quality of the movies) that it's unfair to let this stand without pointing out what actually happened. Lucas approached Ron Howard, Robert Zemeckis and Steven Spielberg to direct Episode I (https://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/25/ron-howard-george-lucas-star-wars-episode-i-phantom-menace). He wanted one of these critically acclaimed directors to help guide the creation of the prequel trilogy. All three said no, according to Howard: "They all said the same thing: 'George, you should do it!'" So the idea that Lucas seized creative control and forced everyone else out... not exactly accurate. He tried to get not just anyone, but three highly acclaimed directors, to offer outside input.
They are fun to watch, but the story is so poorly executed that it's hard to even view it as canon.
Honestly don't see this. Legitimately, this point of view is totally alien to me. I've watched all six of these films at least ten times each, and I legitimately a) see Revenge of the Sith as the clear best film in terms of plot and execution and b) see little difference in the quality of storyline between the two trilogies.
To be totally candid, I view The Force Awakens as a lower level of canon than the Original Sextet. I view it as "this is the vision of George Lucas, this is the story he originally wanted to tell, and then this is some stuff that other people wrote as continuations." If you ask me "how did Han Solo die," I'll tell you from The Force Awakens, but I will always view Lucas's sextet as the main Star Wars story and whatever else as continuations by others that hold a lower canonical status than the Lucas works.
It's like he didn't even watch the OT before writing the PT.
Oh, but he did. He absolutely, unquestionably, incontrovertibly did. Many times, by the looks of it. (https://www.starwarsringtheory.com)
I'm going to bow out at this point, I think. I've stated my case, and I know that most people (at least, most people of a certain generation—many viewers my age who grew up with all of the original six movies do not have the same negative view of half the saga) will never agree with me. To lay it out, my position is:
1) Revenge of the Sith is every bit as good as the very best Star Wars films, and it might be the best one of the saga.
2) Episodes I-III are intricately and intelligently plotted. They have plots and characters that usually equal and occasional exceed those of Episodes IV-VI in quality. A close viewing and careful analysis of these films makes this fairly evident.
3) The original sextet of Star Wars films, by George Lucas, forms one cohesive story that makes most sense when viewed as a whole. There are connections and complexities in plots that span multiple films or in aspects of the films that parallel aspects of others that make the saga a much richer and more enjoyable experience when viewed as a whole.
4) The flaws that Episodes I-III have are also flaws that Episodes IV-VI have. For example, Episode I suffers from questionable pacing. Guess what else suffers from questionable pacing. A film that no Star Wars fan is allowed to question that I'm about to question. Episode IV starts really, really slowly. It takes half the movie for them to even get off of Tatooine. Episode I has some childish comic relief that is not very amusing or helpful to the plot. Episode VI has a lot of this as well. The prequel trilogy has been criticized for world-building at the expense of story, but Episode VI spends entirely too long building the world of Jabba's Palace. This series of films is by no means perfect, but the flaws are distributed relatively evenly across the series. Just a theory, but perhaps some people don't want to see flaws in the original trilogy that they have no problem seeing in the prequel trilogy.
If anyone is interested in reading more about what some of the greater complexities across the Star Wars saga are (and for proof that George Lucas not only watched but meticulously watched the original trilogy when writing the prequels), I recommend https://www.starwarsringtheory.com (https://www.starwarsringtheory.com). It's a great essay by someone who is better versed on this topic than I am that analyzes the plot structure of the full Star Wars saga and shows some of the intricacies behind Lucas's writing of Episodes I-III.
-
I'm going to assume you've already seen the Red Letter Media reviews. It's amazing how absolutely SPOT ON they are are, in spite of their primary attempt being humor. Confused Matthew's reviews are not quite as "ha ha" but even more truthful and enlightening.
I never thought the PT's were as good as the OT's, but I defended them anyway. Sometimes I blamed the fact that I was simply older and not 8 any more.
But seeing facts presented truly made me realize that it wasn't JUST that I had grown up. I wasn't my own growing up that was the "at fault" for me raising an eyebrow. There are LOTS of scientific A/B reasons that the OT is far better than the PT's. And you get entertained along the way, so there's that.
But the RLM and CM reviews sum up my views on the matter. Except that I like them in the sense that I like Manos: The Hands of Fate and watch it anyway. I just don't take them as seriously as the others.
-
I saw this movie yesterday, absolutely loved it!
TFA succeeded with everything that the prequels failed at. New characters were instantly relatable. Rey, Poe and Ben/Kylo are my new favorites!
The onscreen chemistry between Ridley and Boyega/ Boyega and Isaac was a joy to watch. They managed to establish a brotherhood between Poe and Finn in less than two minutes!
Can't wait for Ep.8, and i totally believe that Rey is Luke's daughter!
-
@jammindude
I have not seen the Red Letter Media reviews. I don't really want to. I know that the films are not without problems. No film is without problems. I really don't want to see 4 and a half hours of films I love get nitpicked to death—as I'm sure you would not want to see your favorite movie nitpicked to death in the same way.
There are no scientific reasons that three of the original movies are better than the other three. None. Whatever complaints you want to make about I through III, you can make about IV through VI. I hate that I have to tear down IV through VI a little bit in defense of the other three, but it really is necessary, because the general perception is apparently that George Lucas could do no wrong in 1977 and then somehow by 1999 he was the worst filmmaker alive (the worst perception I could possibly understand of The Phantom Menace is that it is a mediocre action movie; I cannot comprehend comparing it to the likes of Manos—seems like just the type of hyperbole I expect from prequel haters).
Episode IV opens right up with two Imperial officers making the stupidest decision ever made in film history. In a world where robots are basically sentient and easily capable of carrying secret plans, these idiots decide not to worry about an escape pod that has no life forms aboard. And the entire movie, and the two sequels, hinges on this moronic decision by these officers.
I could make a lengthy review about how this and other flaws make A New Hope a terrible movie. I could go on about how "only imperial stormtroopers are so precise" yet they can't hit anything, or how the Death Star didn't need to slowly orbit Yavin before attacking the Rebel base, or how half the film is just exposition and couldn't they have gotten to the point a bit faster, or how the dialogue is sometimes just really stilted and cheesy, and so on, and how all of this makes A New Hope a bad film. Every movie has its flaws, but when it comes to Star Wars, we have to nitpick three of the movies to death while pretending that the other three movies don't have any flaws, when really they have most of the exact same flaws.
If RLM has a legitimate point, has a list of a few legitimate criticisms that can be boiled down into something that I can read in an hour or less, I have yet to see it. I have yet to see any indication that this is anything but a rundown of every nitpick they could possibly make.
As I said, I've seen each of these films more than ten times. Probably more than twenty. Maybe even thirty in some cases. I haven't kept count, but it's a lot. And often, I find that they reveal more of themselves to me. This time, with https://www.starwarsringtheory.com (https://www.starwarsringtheory.com) as a guide, I've really found that it's been like seeing the whole saga as it really is for the first time.
At this moment, I can say that I like The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones better than I have at any point in my life, including when I was 8 years old and saw them for the first time. This is informed by watching the whole saga with the broader structure in mind. In viewing the whole thing as one 13.5 hour film, I was really able to see a lot of the brilliance in the plot of the first two films. The issue being that you can't just view The Phantom Menace as its own thing, but as the first act of a three-act story arc along with the two films that follow it. So much is set up in The Phantom Menace that doesn't pay off until later.
Above, I summarized my views on the matter in about 300 words. Your summary of your views on the matter is a playlist of videos that total 6 hours that I have no desire or interest in watching. If you can boil down what you think are the most important criticisms of these films into something that I can read in a reasonable amount of time, I will read it. If you can't or don't want to, that's fine.
But I do not care to learn to hate movies that I love so that I can fall in line with the consensus of upset fans who want to throw rocks at the man who created the thing they worship. I certainly don't care enough to watch 6 hours of relentless criticism and, I can only imagine, nitpicking (you really can't make a 90 minute review of one movie without a lot of nitpicking).
-
(https://i.imgur.com/XMJ7xm4.png)
-
First off, let me just say that not a year ago Revenge of the Sith was my favorite Star Wars movie, and I still rank it above A New Hope.
But 425, it's like you're joking with your arguments.
-
Well, I haven't read the last 3 of 425s posts (waaaayyy too long), but I will address one thing about character development in the PT. I really have no idea how you see that Lucas developed characters. And I'll point to an interview I saw from Lucas himself during the PTs... he explicitly stated that he is a visual filmmaker, NOT a literary filmmaker. His primary intent was to tell his movies through brilliant visuals, not the story. He admitted he didn't write a good story (whether he didn't want to, or didn't care to, who's to say), which results in a lack of investment in the characters. I'm 100% with Jammindude that the PT is eye-candy. I is awful (there are so many plot holes); 2 is worse (ditto on the the plot-holes, and to think that the love story b/t Anakin and Padme was the foundation for his turn to the dark-side and all the atrocities he commits in 3 is laughable); 3 is a good flick, and Lucas did a pretty good job at connecting the PT to the OT... he again stated in interviews that was his only objective with 3 - to create the bridge to the OT.
Back to TFA though. Despite JJ taking the formula for ANH directly, is that such a bad thing? It wasn't terribly done (sure, 425 does point out some flaws), but Ren's actions set him up as someone truly evil and to be despised, yet conflicted about it - better than ROTS ever did with Anakin. There's lots of things still to be explored and developed for Ep 8 - the battle for power between Hux and Ren within the First Order; Snoke and Poe were interesting, but there's still a lot to tell there. I just hope they don't replay the OT... Maz has all the makings to be the 'new' Yoda; Luke/Obi-Wan; Rey/Luke etc... I think they did enough to set it up that it won't be a replica of the OT though, despite all the similarities between this and ANH.
-
I don't want to derail this thread, the celebration of A New Hope actually done right, but I loved 425's posts on the prequels. I feel that same way. And for me, they slayed the OT in almost every way. The Prequel haters just have to deal with the fact that not everyone shares their OPINION on things.
-
I don't want to derail this thread, the celebration of A New Hope actually done right, but I loved 425's posts on the prequels. I feel that same way. And for me, they slayed the OT in almost every way. The Prequel haters just have to deal with the fact that not everyone shares their OPINION on things.
And I'm fine with that... I just can't comprehend how anyone sees character development and strong story/plot in the first PTs - particularly 1 and 2. Those that do are definitely in the minority - here and everywhere. I got no beef with it though, whatever floats your boat.
-
Haven't seen this posted yet:
https://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-reveals-obi-wan-and-yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens
Cool that Ewan McGregor was involved. I went saw it again on Friday and was able to look for more nuggets and I did notice the "These are your first steps" line after Rey's vision though I originally thought it was Luke's voice. I also noticed that you can hear Vader's breathing when Kylo Ren stabs Han. I'm going to go see it one more time with the wife in January once it calms down a bit.
Oh, and I'm not as convinced that Luke is Rey's father. It sounds like Luke was training multiple younglings when Kylo Ren betrayed him and I'm thinking Rey was one of his better students and he sent her away to protect her. Though there are so many questions around Kylo's betrayal of Luke. Did he slaughter the other younglings? How did Kylo hook up with Knights of Ren? How did Snoke influence him? Who is Snoke and how did he get power? I'm guessing that most of Rey's vision was of the past and I can't freaking wait for Episode 8.
My ranking of the series as of now is
5
7
3
6
4
2
1
-
I don't want to derail this thread, the celebration of A New Hope actually done right, but I loved 425's posts on the prequels. I feel that same way. And for me, they slayed the OT in almost every way. The Prequel haters just have to deal with the fact that not everyone shares their OPINION on things.
And I'm fine with that... I just can't comprehend how anyone sees character development and strong story/plot in the first PTs - particularly 1 and 2. Those that do are definitely in the minority - here and everywhere. I got no beef with it though, whatever floats your boat.
^^^^^That
-
Haven't seen this posted yet:
https://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-reveals-obi-wan-and-yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens
:tup
-
The Prequel haters just have to deal with the fact that not everyone shares their OPINION on things.
I don't hate the prequels per say....I think it's more of the fact that the original three are so ingrained into my psyche as 'STAR WARS' being that was right in my wheelhouse of childhood....that it'd take a lot to supplant those emotions I have for them.
My largest argument (it's the common argument) against the prequels was they were just too heavy with the CGI....they didn't feel like movies to me, it felt like I was watching a cartoon or computer game. Some people may like that. I didn't. I did like the saber duels a ton...but simply, they didn't 'do it' for me. Leaving all critiques of the acting, writing, directing, cinematography aside....just wasn't my cup of tea but I can understand if others liked/loved it.
-
But 425, it's like you're joking with your arguments.
This is perhaps the least civil thing you can say in a conversation of this kind.
2 is worse (ditto on the the plot-holes, and to think that the love story b/t Anakin and Padme was the foundation for his turn to the dark-side and all the atrocities he commits in 3 is laughable);
That is far from the sole reason. There are a lot of complexities in Episode III that are often missed. For example, in addition to the whole "I can save your wife" thing, Palpatine basically convinces Anakin that the Jedi are trying to seize power. This is "supported" by the fact that the Jedi council asked Anakin to spy on Palpatine and further bolstered when Anakin sees Mace Windu try to kill an unarmed Palpatine. This is a big part of things, too. If his trust in the Jedi order had not previously been shaken multiple times throughout Revenge of the Sith, he probably would not have saved Palpatine and therefore not turned to the Dark Side.
And so, when he kills the Jedi, younglings included (which is the only real atrocity that needs to be explained; executing the Separatist leaders is as simple as those people waged a war against him that caused him pain and he wants revenge), he believes that he is destroying a corrupt institution. Sidious has convinced him that even the minds of the younglings had already been poisoned against the Chancellor. Vader believes that by doing something very unpleasant (murdering children) he is achieving the greater end of preserving the Republic from a serious internal threat.
I don't want to derail this thread, the celebration of A New Hope actually done right, but I loved 425's posts on the prequels. I feel that same way. And for me, they slayed the OT in almost every way. The Prequel haters just have to deal with the fact that not everyone shares their OPINION on things.
:tup
And with that, I'm going to stop sidetracking this thread and bow out. May the Force be with you all.
-
We should take the discussion on the PT's to the main thread.
-
5
7
3
6
4
2
1
This is probably how I'd put them as well.
But 425, it's like you're joking with your arguments.
This is perhaps the least civil thing you can say in a conversation of this kind.
It really isn't. If I went into the 'The Room' thread and started praising the movie for its clever and complex writing, you'd assume I was joking. The Room is obviously worse than the PT, but the principle is the same.
-
One of my friends thinks Episode II is the best and I just cannot, for the life of me, understand that. To me, it's so forgettable.
Anyway, loved Episode VII, damn good! Just watched Episode IV last night, it has been so long since I've seen the original trilogy. Can't wait to see Empire again :metal
-
Don't think this was mentioned yet... but below is a link that discusses some canon/non-canon theories of a bunch of questions this movie brought about:
https://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-questions/
It's definitely an interesting read, for those SW geeks out there.
-
Some can't stand Kevin but I find him entertaining to listen to and he has some nice things to say.
Kevin Smith gives his thoughts on TFA (https://youtu.be/5lfocnclUFQ?t=7m14s)
-
Don't think this was mentioned yet... but below is a link that discusses some canon/non-canon theories of a bunch of questions this movie brought about:
https://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-questions/
It's definitely an interesting read, for those SW geeks out there.
Thanks for sharing! That was great! I'm thinking it's more and more likely that a Rey is Luke's daughter.
Only 522 days until Episode 8!!!
-
I think it was a brilliant move on their part to have the similarity and it accomplished exactly what they wanted. It got those of us with the bad taste of the prequels in our mouths back on board and pumped.....I don't see Episode VIII being verbatim ESB.....but I do think Luke will go down in the same manner Obi Wan did....right in front of Rey and at his choosing while facing Ren.
I understand totally why they did it, and it was a smart move that worked, but it's also a bit sad on some level that people are praising it so universally right now given that it was kind of a cover version of Star Wars featuring the original musicians.
As I said, I enjoyed the movie a lot, and I'm still hoping it smashes the shit out of Avatar's box office record, I just really hope the future of the franchise has a lot more to offer than recycling the OT. If they can keep the characters from becoming reworkings of the OT (such as killing off Luke in the same way as Obi Wan, which would be an obvious and tired move), then they'll definitely succeed at that. The movie set up so much potential for Finn, Rey, Ren, and Poe, and they'll have more room to work with now that they're done covering the basics of what happened in the past 30+ years.
From what Abrams said in an interview I read (Ill try to dig it up) Riann Johnson was on set and very involved in the day to day with Episode 7 and asked for certain aspects of his plan for Ep. VIII to be dropped here and there. Abrams said he has worked with Johnson and Trevorrow to help with the continuity of the three movies.
In this interview:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2015/12/13/jj-abrams-star-wars-the-force-awakens/76911016/
Abrams perfectly explains IMO why there is so much familiarity but also points out....as we all know....there is plenty of originality.
I think the next movie is going to be darker....going to be less 'giddy' and a bit more serious in overall tone.
Personally, I REALLY like the direction Abrams took the franchise. The plot holes aside, the story is solid and really does create a nice continuity with the past. And I, for one, really like the "history repeats itself" aspect of VII. Some may feel that he is either lying or that that is just a convenient vehicle for taking a cheap way to revisit nostalgia or to repackage ep. IV. And while I get that, I largely don't care, even if it is true. History repeating itself with tragic consequences because of a failure to learn from/understand the past is a great theme, and one that to me could quite possibly elevate this next set of films far past the original franchise.
-
I think it was a brilliant move on their part to have the similarity and it accomplished exactly what they wanted. It got those of us with the bad taste of the prequels in our mouths back on board and pumped.....I don't see Episode VIII being verbatim ESB.....but I do think Luke will go down in the same manner Obi Wan did....right in front of Rey and at his choosing while facing Ren.
I understand totally why they did it, and it was a smart move that worked, but it's also a bit sad on some level that people are praising it so universally right now given that it was kind of a cover version of Star Wars featuring the original musicians.
As I said, I enjoyed the movie a lot, and I'm still hoping it smashes the shit out of Avatar's box office record, I just really hope the future of the franchise has a lot more to offer than recycling the OT. If they can keep the characters from becoming reworkings of the OT (such as killing off Luke in the same way as Obi Wan, which would be an obvious and tired move), then they'll definitely succeed at that. The movie set up so much potential for Finn, Rey, Ren, and Poe, and they'll have more room to work with now that they're done covering the basics of what happened in the past 30+ years.
From what Abrams said in an interview I read (Ill try to dig it up) Riann Johnson was on set and very involved in the day to day with Episode 7 and asked for certain aspects of his plan for Ep. VIII to be dropped here and there. Abrams said he has worked with Johnson and Trevorrow to help with the continuity of the three movies.
In this interview:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2015/12/13/jj-abrams-star-wars-the-force-awakens/76911016/
Abrams perfectly explains IMO why there is so much familiarity but also points out....as we all know....there is plenty of originality.
I think the next movie is going to be darker....going to be less 'giddy' and a bit more serious in overall tone.
Personally, I REALLY like the direction Abrams took the franchise. The plot holes aside, the story is solid and really does create a nice continuity with the past. And I, for one, really like the "history repeats itself" aspect of VII. Some may feel that he is either lying or that that is just a convenient vehicle for taking a cheap way to revisit nostalgia or to repackage ep. IV. And while I get that, I largely don't care, even if it is true. History repeating itself with tragic consequences because of a failure to learn from/understand the past is a great theme, and one that to me could quite possibly elevate this next set of films far past the original franchise.
I'm the same. I think he did a good job of bringing that universe back to the 'old school' fans with the throwbacks and familiarity's and nailed the introduction and development of the new characters to where I really care about them and what's going to happen to them and the story going forward. I don't think there's much else you can ask?
-
Yes, but what I was trying to say is that it is not just about the nostalgia--the "history repeats itself" theme is pretty powerful.
-
Yes, but what I was trying to say is that it is not just about the nostalgia--the "history repeats itself" theme is pretty powerful.
True...especially in the STAR WARS universe..
-
To put it into perspective, the current user rating on imdb would put it tied with ESB as the best movie.
I wouldn't take the IMDB ratings seriously. That site is full of fanboys, rating new movies (especially superhero movies) a 10 even before watching it. There's better sites for that.
-
To put it into perspective, the current user rating on imdb would put it tied with ESB as the best movie.
I wouldn't take the IMDB ratings seriously. That site is full of fanboys, rating new movies (especially superhero movies) a 10 even before watching it. There's better sites for that.
That was from 100k votes (it's now at a rating of 8.7). If you're a fanboy, it stands to reason you've actually seen the movie by now. I find imdb good for a general score from real people, once it's settles down after release. People are just caught up in the excitement of new Star Wars. Rotten Tomatoes also puts it similarly highly.
-
Well, the best movie rating site i know is RYM, which, ironically, is a music site to begin it. There's no Avengers and Dark Knight Rises in the top 250 there ;)
-
I never knew that RYM even had movies on there, and even looking I can't find shit on there except user lists. I find the site pretty pretentious for music, so I don't care to see what they think of movies anyway.
TDK wouldn't make my top 250, never seen TDKR or the Marvel stuff.
-
Force Awakens is getting pretty good reviews/ratings there. Of course it isn't being rated as good as the OT (New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are top 100 in RYM and Return of the Jedi, top 500) but it will end within the top 1000 for sure if it keeps the current ratings.
-
I just saw it for the third time tonight. I don't find it wearing on me at all; in fact, I think I like it more each time. I pick up on more subtle things with each viewing, too.
I like the crowd reactions as much as the scenes that cause them. The funny stuff, like the thumbs up, the Chewie/Doc checkup, the "trash compactor" suggestion, as well as the WTF stuff like, uh, Gone Solo.
-
Regarding the "they built another death star?", I think that's a problem that comes with the territory of making a sequel in the first place. Because if they could build a weapon that could destroy planets 30 years ago, why wouldn't they try to do that again? Once you introduce the concept of such weapon, the bad guys will still try to do it. With a 30 year gap it gives them perfect time to do so. But now with Starkiller Base out of the way, they will hopefully prevent the empire from building any more.
-
One more example of how multi layered and rich the dialog is in this film.
Adam Driver's performance at the crucial moment was so perfect. It's like, I *KNEW* that he was going to kill him, but when the crucial moment came, Adam's facial performance was so fantastic that he actually had me doubting he would go through with it for a brief moment. Considering I walked into the theater thinking it was a foregone conclusion, that's pretty impressive. (Harrison had been saying since RotJ that he would never do it again unless Han died)
On top of that, the lines of dialog could be interpreted several ways....honest wavering in his conviction, or possibly even some warped sense of feeling like he needed Han's *help* in killing him, as a weird poetic justice in his own mind. It could be interpreted either way.
Just hadn't heard really decently written dialog in a Star Wars movie for a very VERY long time... :neverusethis:
-
Just hadn't heard really decently written dialog in a Star Wars movie for a very VERY long time... :neverusethis:
I was hoping Kylo would tell Han that he was like sand. Coarse and irritating and all that.
-
Regarding the "they built another death star?", I think that's a problem that comes with the territory of making a sequel in the first place. Because if they could build a weapon that could destroy planets 30 years ago, why wouldn't they try to do that again? Once you introduce the concept of such weapon, the bad guys will still try to do it. With a 30 year gap it gives them perfect time to do so. But now with Starkiller Base out of the way, they will hopefully prevent the empire from building any more.
It wasn't explicitly mentioned, but hopefully they can avoid this because the planet had some unique aspect about it that made it the only one viable to be Starkiller.
One thing I wondered about the base... if it required the sun of that system to power, how was it powered for the first shot? Did I miss that?
-
I've wondered about that too. I just assumed they could move it between different stars.
-
Regarding the "they built another death star?", I think that's a problem that comes with the territory of making a sequel in the first place. Because if they could build a weapon that could destroy planets 30 years ago, why wouldn't they try to do that again? Once you introduce the concept of such weapon, the bad guys will still try to do it. With a 30 year gap it gives them perfect time to do so. But now with Starkiller Base out of the way, they will hopefully prevent the empire from building any more.
It wasn't explicitly mentioned, but hopefully they can avoid this because the planet had some unique aspect about it that made it the only one viable to be Starkiller.
One thing I wondered about the base... if it required the sun of that system to power, how was it powered for the first shot? Did I miss that?
One shot doesn't require the full power of the sun, so it's possible they only sucked off a bit of the sun for one shot, then sucked the entire sun for the big multi-burst.
I'd also expect you don't build an entire planet into an ass-kicking weapon that only has one finite fuel source, so it's possible that it has some method of propulsion to move itself to another star system for more fuel.
-
Here's a nugget: The stormtrooper that get forced to release Rey and later drop his weapon was Daniel Craig.
(https://i.imgur.com/CKUUBlu.png)
-
That rumor was denied by JJ.
-
Ohh :-\
Which one though, him not being in that specific scene or in the movie at all? He's listed on imdb atleast.
-
I may have missed it earlier in the thread, but Starkiller was Luke's original last name before the studio told Lucas to change it.
-
Yeah, that had me groaning a bit in the movie. :lol
-
Why groaning? I thought that was one of many nice little nuggets for the hard cores.
-
Which one though, him not being in that specific scene or in the movie at all? He's listed on imdb atleast.
When I read it I got the impression that he wasn't in the movie at all, but I could have it wrong.
-
Why groaning? I thought that was one of many nice little nuggets for the hard cores.
I should specify that I was groaning while smiling, shaking my head, and laughing. I pretty much did that at all the references throughout the movie. I found it really amusing, albeit not surprising) how they seemed to be shoving as many winks and nods in there as they possibly could.
-
I saw it last night, and other than there being one or two TOO many repetitions from Ep. 4, I thought it was sensational. I will certainly be seeing it again.
-
I saw it last night, and other than there being one or two TOO many repetitions from Ep. 4, I thought it was sensational. I will certainly be seeing it again.
I thought the chess board was unnecessary; but the ball/blaster was quick and subtle enough that it was cute and amusing.
-
I saw it last night, and other than there being one or two TOO many repetitions from Ep. 4, I thought it was sensational. I will certainly be seeing it again.
I thought the chess board was unnecessary; but the ball/blaster was quick and subtle enough that it was cute and amusing.
While the chess board was an unnecessary reference, I thought it was a nice nod given that they brought in Phil Tippett to stop motion animate it exactly like the original, and the models have direct lineage to the originals. It even picked up where the original chess game ended apparently. It was the kind of detail that showed a lot of respect for the original movies.
I saw a good video on it only yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sexd06I8mzg
-
After a few days of processing, I have to temper my original criticisms. Could they have done a hard sci-fi movie full of space politics and philosophy that would have appealed to a hardcore sci fi nerd like me? Sure. But Star Wars has to appeal to everyone, of all ages and fandom levels. Abrams handled it perfectly, as far as I'm concerned. Yes, it could have been something that I personally would have liked more, but Abrams did the impossible in creating a movie that will satisfy everyone.
-
Just saw it for a second time. My opinion of it is even higher than after the first viewing. Can't wait for Episode VIII. I think J.J. was smart to approach TFA the way he did - to me, it feels like a "Greatest Hits" package from the original trilogy fused with new characters and plot lines to ensure a safe transition to a new phase - but I feel like the next chapter is going to completely change things up on us.
-
I stood in line 3 hours with my friends to see it. I was not disappointed! I really like how Kylo Ren was portrayed as a whiny little sociopath who was very insecure. I have a theory about Supreme Leader Snoke, I think he is a resurrected form of Darth Plagueis.
-
I saw it yesterday and was very happy with it.
Did it re-tread a lot of ANH ground? Sure, but I don't really mind. It makes sense why they did that and hopefully they go more of their own way with VIII.
I had a strong feeling Solo was going to die, but I was expecting them to save that for VIII as a "lowest point" kind of thing, so now I'm curious how bad things might get in the next one. If it is Luke that goes in VIII, I hope he does so in battle, not just standing there like Obi Wan did.
I really liked Star Killer base and was hoping that they would have just disarmed, dismantled it, to later destroy it in one of the sequels. It seemed too significant to just destroy right off the bat in the first movie, but oh well, its gone.
But overall I really liked it and I see myself re watching and enjoying it for many years to come.
-
When trailers come out, I never watch them because I don't watch trailers in general. I went back and saw the official trailer for TFA (I believe there's only one official trailer release and 2 teasers) and man did I get goosebumps watching that. The music is fantastic as are the images, I think I must've watched it a hundred times already.
-
When trailers come out, I never watch them because I don't watch trailers in general. I went back and saw the official trailer for TFA (I believe there's only one official trailer release and 2 teasers) and man did I get goosebumps watching that. The music is fantastic as are the images, I think I must've watched it a hundred times already.
I'm with you. The official trailer is a thing of beauty. I also loved the original teaser trailer from last year.
I love trailers...sometimes more than the movie itself.
-
Just saw it for a second time. My opinion of it is even higher than after the first viewing.
That's good to hear! I'm heading for my second viewing today at 12:30 with the family. Can't wait for my kiddos reactions!!
-
Let us know what they thought after you see it! I'm really interested it what kids thought of the movie. It'd be great to see it make a lasting impression instead of most movies today that are forgotten the month after it came out.
-
Let us know what they thought after you see it! I'm really interested it what kids thought of the movie. It'd be great to see it make a lasting impression instead of most movies today that are forgotten the month after it came out.
I feel bad that they've never seen the prequels....but they LOVE the OT!! I'm curious to their reaction when Han dies....they really like him :( I'm going to be just as curious about my wife's opinion of the movie because she grew up with the OT as well....was a 'casual' fan, and she said she's looking forward to it.
-
Interesting article about the differences between the novelization and the film. I'm beginning to think that Snoke faked his own death and used Sidious to take power.
https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-11-biggest-differences-between-the-book-and-movie-v-1749329046
-
Interesting read, Kaos. Scrolling through the comments a bit, I think one nailed why I am not quite as fussed about how silly the Starkiller was as I might otherwise be:
I think it all comes down to the visuals. It looks more impressive on the screen for the Starkiller to draw energy from a nearby star. It’s a constant reminder to the audience during those outdoors shots that the clock was ticking before it would be charged and ready to fire.
And the part where the sun finally goes dark just at that moment where Kylo Ren makes his fateful decision while having his heart-to-heart with his Dad worked beautifully.
And the beam being visible as it’s fired from the gun also works better visually than simply seeing planets explode. Good cinema is visual poetry, and from the POV shots on the planet of the beam firing upwards to the POV on the star destroyer watching it go on its way to exterminate billions, it really added to the horror of the act.
Good point. The "visual poetry" of it created an emotional response that something a bit closer to "scientifically correct" probably would not have. So...I guess I'm okay with it.
-
Totally agree with the sun extinguishing, and then Kylo kills Han... I whispered to jingle.son "the light is extinguished". I loved the double meaning of that scene, which was predicated by how Leia said to Han (re: Ren) "There is still light in him" vs Luke's line in ROTJ "there is still good in him".
-
Interesting read, Kaos. Scrolling through the comments a bit, I think one nailed why I am not quite as fussed about how silly the Starkiller was as I might otherwise be:
I think it all comes down to the visuals. It looks more impressive on the screen for the Starkiller to draw energy from a nearby star. It’s a constant reminder to the audience during those outdoors shots that the clock was ticking before it would be charged and ready to fire.
And the part where the sun finally goes dark just at that moment where Kylo Ren makes his fateful decision while having his heart-to-heart with his Dad worked beautifully.
And the beam being visible as it’s fired from the gun also works better visually than simply seeing planets explode. Good cinema is visual poetry, and from the POV shots on the planet of the beam firing upwards to the POV on the star destroyer watching it go on its way to exterminate billions, it really added to the horror of the act.
Good point. The "visual poetry" of it created an emotional response that something a bit closer to "scientifically correct" probably would not have. So...I guess I'm okay with it.
It's like poetry, sort of. They rhy-ah whatever.
I think those are really good points actually. People need to take the art of story telling in movies into account more often instead picking apart "plot holes" in movies like Inception or TDKR where those kinds of details weren't the point.
-
Totally agree with the sun extinguishing, and then Kylo kills Han... I whispered to jingle.son "the light is extinguished". I loved the double meaning of that scene, which was predicated by how Leia said to Han (re: Ren) "There is still light in him" vs Luke's line in ROTJ "there is still good in him".
Great point.
-
got tickets to see it in IMAX at the SF Matron theater, one of 6 in the US that utilizes the IMAX with laser technology :hefdaddy
super last minute and reserved seating so i won't have a prime spot, but just going at all is worth it to me :tup
-
got tickets to see it in IMAX at the SF Matron theater, one of 6 in the US that utilizes the IMAX with laser technology :hefdaddy
super last minute and reserved seating so i won't have a prime spot, but just going at all is worth it to me :tup
I am super jelly
-
got tickets to see it in IMAX at the SF Matron theater, one of 6 in the US that utilizes the IMAX with laser technology :hefdaddy
super last minute and reserved seating so i won't have a prime spot, but just going at all is worth it to me :tup
I am super jelly
Saw it in IMAX with jingle.son yesterday. Was totally worth it. Some of the shots of the new star destroyers were excellent in 3D
-
Yeah, there were good even though JJ didn't shoot it for 3D
-
I wish they had IMAX that wasn't in 3D. :(
-
I wish they had IMAX that wasn't in 3D. :(
I agree with you. Sometimes those glasses bother me.
-
I wish they had IMAX that wasn't in 3D. :(
I agree with you. Sometimes those glasses bother me.
Why? They don't have spell check?
-
Why I oughta ......
I just don't enjoy the big clumsy glasses on my face. 2D in I-Max is just as amazing.
-
The 3D was a bit weird when I saw it the first time. Sometimes the image was double, which was a bit distracting.
Second time was 2D though, something I prefer these days. But the 3D really helped to sell the size of some things. Especially the star destroyers, those looked freakin' huge. Scale was something this movie did better than any other Star Wars movie so far. Everything that was supposed to look big really looked massive.
-
Why I oughta ......
:rollin
-
Let us know what they thought after you see it! I'm really interested it what kids thought of the movie. It'd be great to see it make a lasting impression instead of most movies today that are forgotten the month after it came out.
Just got back. The boys LOVED it! They were ear to ear smiles the whole time....first time they've ever seen a 3D movie....and the final act of the attack on Starkiller base and the saber duel they were on the edge of their seats. They haven't stopped talking about it and asking me questions since it ended :lol
A couple comments after my second viewing:
Thought the first conversation between BB-8 and Rey was funny and interesting...
Rey: Where are you from?
BB-8: It's classified
Rey: Its' classified...oh really....me too, it's a big secret :lol
Also:
- Han absolutely knew Ren was going to kill him and there was no hope he'd "turn'. He says things like "we lost our son"..."too much Vader in him"....and when Leah asks him to bring him home when they are hugging the look in his eyes and face says it all....Ford did a great job at showing Han absolutely knew he was going to die trying to convince Ren to 'come home'
- Leah knows who Rey is. I don't think there's any question in my mind now that she is Luke's daughter.
- The 'vision' sequence that Rey has is way more interesting when you're ready to 'look for' things.
Also, concerning Rey vs Ren and the whole battle of the force. It just becomes more easy to 'see' in the movie how the light side of the force is guiding Rey unbeknownst to her the whole time....and how Ren really is just an apprentice. The first go round when Ren tried to break Rey's mind when they were on the planet surface he was having an issue...and it was cut short by stormtroopers but it gave Rey a dose of what to prepare for. Plus, they show her early on in the movie kicking a couple guys butts so physical battle isn't something she's unfamiliar with.
The saber duel between them at the end....Ren is all over the place and is not 'technical' at all. He's just flailing away. It'll be neat to see his skills increase as well.
All in all the second viewing was just as good if not better than the first. I'm gonna go one more time I think, but I can definitely see that this movie will reveal 'small' details the more views you throw at it.
-
What's with people not knowing how to spell Leia?
-
What's with people not knowing how to spell Leia?
It sounds the same in my head.... :biggrin:
-
I liked it a lot. That's not saying much, because I also like the prequels (and Attack might be my #2 SW movie ever), but it didn't disappoint me in the slightest. Kylo is a really different and interesting villain and it's great to see Han Solo once again. Also, it didn't just copy ANH storyline - it copied the ANH storyline so much it was kind of bold and defiant, and I loved it. The pseudo-Death star, the key info hidden in the droid, the depressing desert planet, the killing of the father-figure...
And I have a serious crush on Daisy Ridley, both as an actress and as Rey. I would buy the whole trilogy on BluRay, even if only for her.
-
What's with people not knowing how to spell Leia?
It sounds the same in my head.... :biggrin:
Welcome to my world.
-
I wish they had IMAX that wasn't in 3D. :(
Do they use the standard polarized glasses? You could always buy/make yourself a pair of 2D glasses to watch it in 2D if you really want the benefit of the bigger screen.
-
Well I've seen it now, and besides the similarities to ANH and the death star. I was pleasantly surprised!
-
Saw it today in IMAX. It's funny, I expected too be mildly disappointed after the build up, boy was I wrong! What an awesome, entertaining movie. There were just so many things that seemed so much better to me than either the OT or the PT. First and foremost, the writing and acting were just light years better. The special effects were great, a good blend of CGI and non CGI. I liked the little things, like how all the blasters just really seemed to pack a serious punch comparatively to all the past movies. Loved it when Han fired chewies wep for the first time!! Like others, I loved BB-8, the thumbs up thing was a frikken crack up. Like Chad or someone just mentioned...the timing of the suns extinguishment just seconds before Hans death...wow. I remember thinking at that moment...Ren embracing the darkness. Even though I could see it coming a million miles away... I jumped in my seat when he put his lightsaber through Han... and yes Im not ashamed to say, there were even a couple tears. There were many moments during the film that I was seriously on the edge of my seat.... Bravo JJ! I went with my 79 year old Dad, and had an awesome time. He also really enjoyed it. I was 13 in '77 for ANH and I have to say...for me.. the magic is back.
I'm sure I'll see it at least twice more in the theater.
-
I wish they had IMAX that wasn't in 3D. :(
Do they use the standard polarized glasses? You could always buy/make yourself a pair of 2D glasses to watch it in 2D if you really want the benefit of the bigger screen.
True, but it's not the 3D that bothers me; it's the glasses. :lol
-
I wish they had IMAX that wasn't in 3D. :(
Do they use the standard polarized glasses? You could always buy/make yourself a pair of 2D glasses to watch it in 2D if you really want the benefit of the bigger screen.
True, but it's not the 3D that bothers me; it's the glasses. :lol
Oh. Scrap that idea then. :lol
-
Saw it again today with the wife and I loved it even more. I remember thinking on first viewing that Adam Driver was good, but now I think his portrayal was excellent. I also get the feeling now that Rey and Ren might be siblings rather than Rey being Luke's daughter. Something about Leia and Han solo's interaction with her sorta nudges my thought on that. The next episode cannot come out any sooner.
-
I've saw the movie a couple days ago, and I wanted everything to sink in before I posted anything. I had to process what happened after Han was killed because it's HAN. By far the most gut wrenching moment in Star Wars history. I understand why they had to do it.
That being said, The Force Awakens was FANFUCKINGTASTIC!!! I love the new cast. Kylo Ren. Rey. Finn. and motherfucking Poe HOT DAMNeron. Loved BB8 as well. That's how you create a cute funny character without it becoming Jar Jar Binks.
Fuck yes, this movie. It had the magic of what I loved about the original trilogy that George Lucas couldn't replicate in his prequel trilogy.
I love the bromance between Finn and Poe. I loved the moment Rey summoned over the lightsaber. I loved the X-Wings attacking. I fucking loved it all.
ADAM DRIVER AS KYLO REN IS HOW I WANTED ANAKIN SKYWALKER TO BE PORTRAYED.
I can't wait for my second viewing. I haven't been able to stop thinking about The Force Awakens since I saw it a few days ago.
Star Wars is back!
-
Needing this movie on bluray asap.
-
What's with people not knowing how to spell Leia?
It sounds the same in my head.... :biggrin:
It sure does, Gairee.
-
Since the first trailer, I kind of felt that Finn may be Lando's son. After seeing the movie, I kind of want him to just be some guy
But regardless, there were two points in the movie that kind of stood out:
1. Maz looks into his eyes and seems to recognize his heritage. She's all like "I've seen eyes like this before, the eyes of someone who runs" or something like that
2. Chewie chokes him very similar to how Lando was choked and makes the same kind of voice lando did (But this may have just been a fanservice, call back kind of thing)
Ultimately, I would rather him just been a guy.
-
I would also want him to just be a random guy. If it had anything to do with Lando it would be too much with the family relations everywhere.
-
Relevant:
(https://epicstream.com/assets/uploads/ckeditor/images/lando.jpg)
-
^^^ :lol
-
Do you think Kylo Ren will have the mask in the next film? I only ask because I don't think there's any way if he does that it's the 'same' mask. He dropped it on the bridge right before murdering Solo....then, after getting shot by Chewbacca he starts to walk towards them a good few steps leaving the mask behind.
He's in the forest, fighting Rey and Finn maskless....then, the planet implodes. Don't see how the 'old' mask is recovered.
Silly observation but that mask is destroyed right now. If he does have one in the next movie....it'd have to be a new one.
-
I was thinking about that too. He may very well go maskless in episode VIII and since he has that battle wound now, he might either try and cover it up with something new or just walk around like "look at my badass scar". I'm curious to see what they do.
and not only that, but his treasured Darth Vader mask/helmet may have been destroyed as well.
One thing I am curious about is whether or not Luke was stranded on that planet or stayed for so long by choice. Like he went to investigate the planet and his ship or whatever got damaged. I just don't see him leaving Rey on Jakku for so long unless something was stopping him, but who knows.
-
Was the Vader mask on the Starkiller base or the Star Destroyer?? I'm trying to remember, but I thought the Destroyer.
-
Guy, guys. He probably had Alfred order 1000 masks from China to not draw attention to himself.
-
I'm finding it comical and kind of sad that there are a lot of people on the internet already bitching about the possibility/probability that Rey is Luke's daughter calling it lazy story telling. I just really hate the internet some times.
-
Was the Vader mask on the Starkiller base or the Star Destroyer?? I'm trying to remember, but I thought the Destroyer.
Oh yeah, good call. I forgot about that. It was in his chambers on the star destroyer.
-
Do you think Kylo Ren will have the mask in the next film? I only ask because I don't think there's any way if he does that it's the 'same' mask. He dropped it on the bridge right before murdering Solo....then, after getting shot by Chewbacca he starts to walk towards them a good few steps leaving the mask behind.
He's in the forest, fighting Rey and Finn maskless....then, the planet implodes. Don't see how the 'old' mask is recovered.
Silly observation but that mask is destroyed right now. If he does have one in the next movie....it'd have to be a new one.
Yes.
-
One thing I am curious about is whether or not Luke was stranded on that planet or stayed for so long by choice. Like he went to investigate the planet and his ship or whatever got damaged. I just don't see him leaving Rey on Jakku for so long unless something was stopping him, but who knows.
Well...they said he set off to find the first Jedi temple.....looks like he found it. I'd say he was there intentionally, probably just waiting for Rey.....something I'm sure he forseen.
-
Is it necessary for them to reveal Rey's lineage in the next film? Would it be 'bad form' to hold off until the finale of the NT to reveal that or is it something that 'has' to be done next film? I suppose it depends on the story they are telling, but I was just thinking that it's such a major question...they HAVE to address it in the next film. But, what if they don't and they let it ride until the third movie?
-
Side note......ever since my kids saw the movie my little guy is stretching his hand towards everyone's head and trying to 'tell' us what we are thinking about :lol
-
Awesome :lol
-
Is it necessary for them to reveal Rey's lineage in the next film? Would it be 'bad form' to hold off until the finale of the NT to reveal that or is it something that 'has' to be done next film? I suppose it depends on the story they are telling, but I was just thinking that it's such a major question...they HAVE to address it in the next film. But, what if they don't and they let it ride until the third movie?
Now that she's met Leia and Luke and Kylo, I think it almost has to be revealed in the next movie if she is related to any of them. I'm sure they've still got plenty else to reveal in future, and I think her lineage is an important one to deal with in the next movie.
-
Is it necessary for them to reveal Rey's lineage in the next film? Would it be 'bad form' to hold off until the finale of the NT to reveal that or is it something that 'has' to be done next film? I suppose it depends on the story they are telling, but I was just thinking that it's such a major question...they HAVE to address it in the next film. But, what if they don't and they let it ride until the third movie?
Perhaps they are shadowing the Luke/Leia familial reveal, so it'd be film 3.
Then again, maybe they're shadowing the Luke/Darth reveal...
-
I hope they won't treat it as this massive twist since pretty much everyone has guessed it already.
-
It just occurred to me. Since everyone thought Luke Skywalker and the Jedi were "a myth"...might it stand to reason that THEY don't know that Vader is Luke's father? That would be an interesting plotline as the story unfolds. Even though we know, we get to relive it by seeing the new characters reaction to the revelation. Sortof like when you're watching your kid see it for the first time.
-
I think her lineage will be revealed in the next one. The one thing about the possible family dynamic is it seemed so odd to me the way Leia embraced and bonded with this completely strange girl, like Leia KNEW her. Yet when Han first met her he didn't really react to her in a familiar way. So, if she's Luke's daughter, maybe Leia knew and Han didn't?
One other thing, and forgive me if I missed another sign, but when Han died they flashed to Leia's reaction. Isn't that the first hint that Leia might be force sensitive? I was so immersed in the EU sometimes it's hard to keep everything straight :lol
**EDIT - Oh yeah! Did anyone else notice that the speech Luke gives in the very first trailer, was not in the movie? The one about the force being strong in his family...
-
Wasn't that just taken from Jedi?
-
Wasn't that just taken from Jedi?
-
Regarding Vader and the lineage... why, after ROTJ, would Luke or Leia go around advertising that they were the children of Vader. Theoretically, only them, Vader and Palpatine knew. If it was you, would YOU want to tell anyone you were satan's spawn? It's been suggested that the expanded story for TFA reveals that Snoke knows, and that's how Kylo Ren was told.
-
This was a fun watch. It's Carrie Fischer, John Boyega and Daisy Ridley (and David Beckam/ Kylie Monogue) on the Graham Norton Show.
https://youtu.be/GVB4ghl0mJo
-
One other thing, and forgive me if I missed another sign, but when Han died they flashed to Leia's reaction. Isn't that the first hint that Leia might be force sensitive? I was so immersed in the EU sometimes it's hard to keep everything straight :lol
Yeah, Leia was always force sensitive.
-
Saw it yesterday. I always try to avoid spoilers so I had no idea Han was going to be killed, and I was definitely moved. Haven't seen much sympathy for Chewie around here, who lost his life-long friend.
Overall a great effort, but it seems Abrams can't help but copy what came before no matter which "Star" series he's involved with.
-
Haven't seen much sympathy for Chewie around here, who lost his life-long friend.
Good point....Chewbacca's kind of lost in the mix of it all. He'll be fine, he's got a hot new Pilot to take care of him :tup
Overall a great effort, but it seems Abrams can't help but copy what came before no matter which "Star" series he's involved with.
I don't think that's a fair statement towards Abrams. He was tasked with reviving a franchise that had taken several black eyes over what most critics and fans thought were utter failures that were the prequels. The similarity in story and the 'throwbacks' were very smart IMO as it secured me (and probably countless others) as a fan and guaranteed I'll be watching the rest of the trilogy because I now 'care' what happens to Rey and Finn. They way he developed those characters and 'gave' them to us was not a 'copy' by any means....in fact, I'd say it was done better than the presentation of Luke and the gang back in the day. Ridley and Boyega did a great job in acting and the throwback style of filming with more physical props and less CGI gave the entire film that breath of fresh air the series needed.
-
One other thing, and forgive me if I missed another sign, but when Han died they flashed to Leia's reaction. Isn't that the first hint that Leia might be force sensitive? I was so immersed in the EU sometimes it's hard to keep everything straight :lol
Yeah, Leia was always force sensitive.
Right. At the end of Empire, Luke calls out to Leia with the force so she knows where to find him.
-
One other thing, and forgive me if I missed another sign, but when Han died they flashed to Leia's reaction. Isn't that the first hint that Leia might be force sensitive? I was so immersed in the EU sometimes it's hard to keep everything straight :lol
Yeah, Leia was always force sensitive.
Right. At the end of Empire, Luke calls out to Leia with the force so she knows where to find him.
Ahhh,, that's right, forgot about that! My CRS is kicking in. :hat
-
We experienced this today...well, yesterday now. I really, really, hated all the previews and trailers! I nearly forgot what we went there to see.
Oh, yea! Star Wars: The Force Awakens. Oh, and boy did it awaken. After reading through this thread, I must say I agree with most of what has been said. (save 425, I just don't get what you're seeing...and yes, I own PT and watched them this week.). For me, the magic is back.
When we were leaving the theater, my son and I were discussing how cool we thought it was that they made Kylo seem so powerful at first, but as the movie progressed you began to realize that he was more of a crude, petulant, blunt instrument. One in serious need of sharpening. Even his mask was scary at first but reduced to juvenile mimicry, "Take off the mask, you don't need it." In essence, you start with Finn's frightened point of view and end up at a disappointed Han/father's point of view. Brilliant stuff, and the actor really pulls it off.
My boy, even said, "I've never seen anyone stop a blaster with the force." Then we went home and watched ESB...Vader stops several blaster shots. We both started laughing and Mrs. P asks what's so funny. Junior says, "It looks so much more impressive when Kylo does it."
Ahhh,, that's right, forgot about that! My CRS is kicking in. :hat
I've always understood that to be CMS. :lol
-
My boy, even said, "I've never seen anyone stop a blaster with the force." Then we went home and watched ESB...Vader stops several blaster shots. We both started laughing and Mrs. P asks what's so funny. Junior says, "It looks so much more impressive when Kylo does it."
I think Vader either deflected it or just sent it in a different direction? But when Ren halted it completely in mid air....that was a pimp move. It really does show that he is certainly powerful, but like you said....the more you learn about him the more you see that he still has A LOT to learn.
-
My boy, even said, "I've never seen anyone stop a blaster with the force." Then we went home and watched ESB...Vader stops several blaster shots. We both started laughing and Mrs. P asks what's so funny. Junior says, "It looks so much more impressive when Kylo does it."
I think Vader either deflected it or just sent it in a different direction? But when Ren halted it completely in mid air....that was a pimp move. It really does show that he is certainly powerful, but like you said....the more you learn about him the more you see that he still has A LOT to learn.
Doesn't Vader deflect that shot from Han Solo in Empire? When they're walking into a trap, the door opens and Han just blasts at Vader. I always thought that was a badass Han Solo moment, because he just draws his blaster and fires without any hesitation.
-
I loved when he pushed that hostile smuggler right into the jaws of that crazy alien. Han is not to be screwed with.
-
(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/FB_IMG_1451183451861_zps96cexhzl.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/FB_IMG_1451183451861_zps96cexhzl.jpg.html)
-
Seeing it for the second time in 3 hours. :)
-
My boy, even said, "I've never seen anyone stop a blaster with the force." Then we went home and watched ESB...Vader stops several blaster shots. We both started laughing and Mrs. P asks what's so funny. Junior says, "It looks so much more impressive when Kylo does it."
I think Vader either deflected it or just sent it in a different direction? But when Ren halted it completely in mid air....that was a pimp move. It really does show that he is certainly powerful, but like you said....the more you learn about him the more you see that he still has A LOT to learn.
Doesn't Vader deflect that shot from Han Solo in Empire? When they're walking into a trap, the door opens and Han just blasts at Vader. I always thought that was a badass Han Solo moment, because he just draws his blaster and fires without any hesitation.
Yes, I think Han fires off 3 quick shots and Vader puts up his palm and they disappear as they hit his palm. Like he's catching them...not deflecting. Then Han's weapon flies to Vader.
Gary, I'm guessing that if the visual technology would have been in place for Vader to stop blaster fire in mid-air, Kershner (or more probably Lucas as executive producer) would have used it.
-
I don't know. It was entertaining, but nobody should get away with lazy writing. I'm surprised so many people liked it when it's just a regurgitation of past movies, plot devices, characters, landscapes, jokes, scenes, etc. They even went very far with the ridiculous idea of hey, yet another Death Star that is super powerful but gets destroyed by mini airships. I didn't even care about it because from the first time they introduced it I knew someone in an orange suit would destroy it.
I'm tempted to say that people like it just because it's Star Wars and it's cool to like something you waited for so long (the same reason that prompts people to "like" stuff they supported on Kickstarter, scalation of commitment), but after reading everybody's posts I think people really like the movie, which baffles me.
Serious question: can anybody mention 3 things in this movie that were original and had any bearing on the overall movie (i.e. not "hey the android is orange now!")?. I can't even come up with one. And before anybody yells "It didn't have to be original!!" I want to repeat that nobody should get away with such a lazy writing.
-
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage
mess around on this website for a day and realize nothing is original
-
I don't know. It was entertaining, but nobody should get away with lazy writing. I'm surprised so many people liked it when it's just a regurgitation of past movies, plot devices, characters, landscapes, jokes, scenes, etc. They even went very far with the ridiculous idea of hey, yet another Death Star that is super powerful but gets destroyed by mini airships. I didn't even care about it because from the first time they introduced it I knew someone in an orange suit would destroy it.
I'm tempted to say that people like it just because it's Star Wars and it's cool to like something you waited for so long (the same reason that prompts people to "like" stuff they supported on Kickstarter, scalation of commitment), but after reading everybody's posts I think people really like the movie, which baffles me.
Serious question: can anybody mention 3 things in this movie that were original and had any bearing on the overall movie (i.e. not "hey the android is orange now!")?. I can't even come up with one. And before anybody yells "It didn't have to be original!!" I want to repeat that nobody should get away with such a lazy writing.
Yes....and they are ALL multi-layered characters. This may be the best written, multi layered, character driven SW ever.
Kylo Ren is very close to taking over Darth Vader as the best villain.
Rey completely blows away Katniss and Ripley as the strongest female sci-fi/action lead in cinema history. Not only stronger, but far deeper and better written.
Finn is another one with just a host of motivations and layers.
I wouldn't have cared if the story had ripped off the originals even more than they did (and I really only thought it was a few "framework" items). The characters absolutely carried this film.
It's also Harrison's finest moment as Han. His motivations for trying to reach out to Kylo are multi-layered as well. Not just having to do with Ben being his son, but with Leia's request to try to save him. Han *may* have known that reaching out was most likely going to cost him his life...but for the opportunity to save his son, and and bring him back as promised to the true love of his life, he was willing to go against the overwhelming odds one last time.
Was Kylo truly conflicted? Was his request for "help" a plea for redemption? Or a rouse to get Han to buy in? Or maybe even a sick and twisted request to have his own father HELP him in the action of killing himself to further add insult to injury?
On top of that, there are so many places for this to go. So many WONDERFUL story lines to explore.
I could go on and on. The reasons people love it were simply because it is the best writing and storytelling we've seen from the universe since ESB. Easily.
-
I'm tempted to say that people like it just because it's Star Wars and it's cool to like something you waited for so long
yeah, just like the prequel trilogy. oh, wait . . .
-
To be fair, the presence of that bias is definitely present. The only argument is about the degree it's affect the public reception.
-
I don't know. It was entertaining, but nobody should get away with lazy writing. I'm surprised so many people liked it when it's just a regurgitation of past movies, plot devices, characters, landscapes, jokes, scenes, etc.
Well, Force Awakens ripped of A New Hope, A New Hope ripped of Hidden Fortress from Akira Kurosawa, Akira Kurosawa made some reinterpretations of plays by Shakespeare like King Lear and Macbeth so, it seems everyone ripped of someone :P
But, seriously, i'm exaggerating things. Movies like A New Hope and Kurosawa's Ran, which was King Lear reinterpration, stands on their own.
-
In my opinion, while The Force Awakens certainly re-used a bunch of stuff from the original trilogy, it was still a great film because it felt very different from any other Star Wars movie. The pace was quicker, it had much more humor, the characters were deeper, and there were some original touches along the way. It was essentially two hours of fan service that JJ used to usher in a new generation of characters, which I thought worked great, because by the end of the film my nostalgia was satisfied and all I really cared about was what was going to happen to Finn, Rey, and Kylo Ren.
-
I don't know. It was entertaining, but nobody should get away with lazy writing. I'm surprised so many people liked it when it's just a regurgitation of past movies, plot devices, characters, landscapes, jokes, scenes, etc. They even went very far with the ridiculous idea of hey, yet another Death Star that is super powerful but gets destroyed by mini airships. I didn't even care about it because from the first time they introduced it I knew someone in an orange suit would destroy it.
I'm tempted to say that people like it just because it's Star Wars and it's cool to like something you waited for so long (the same reason that prompts people to "like" stuff they supported on Kickstarter, scalation of commitment), but after reading everybody's posts I think people really like the movie, which baffles me.
Serious question: can anybody mention 3 things in this movie that were original and had any bearing on the overall movie (i.e. not "hey the android is orange now!")?. I can't even come up with one. And before anybody yells "It didn't have to be original!!" I want to repeat that nobody should get away with such a lazy writing.
Yes....and they are ALL multi-layered characters. This may be the best written, multi layered, character driven SW ever.
Kylo Ren is very close to taking over Darth Vader as the best villain.
Rey completely blows away Katniss and Ripley as the strongest female sci-fi/action lead in cinema history. Not only stronger, but far deeper and better written.
Finn is another one with just a host of motivations and layers.
I wouldn't have cared if the story had ripped off the originals even more than they did (and I really only thought it was a few "framework" items). The characters absolutely carried this film.
It's also Harrison's finest moment as Han. His motivations for trying to reach out to Kylo are multi-layered as well. Not just having to do with Ben being his son, but with Leia's request to try to save him. Han *may* have known that reaching out was most likely going to cost him his life...but for the opportunity to save his son, and and bring him back as promised to the true love of his life, he was willing to go against the overwhelming odds one last time.
Was Kylo truly conflicted? Was his request for "help" a plea for redemption? Or a rouse to get Han to buy in? Or maybe even a sick and twisted request to have his own father HELP him in the action of killing himself to further add insult to injury?
On top of that, there are so many places for this to go. So many WONDERFUL story lines to explore.
I could go on and on. The reasons people love it were simply because it is the best writing and storytelling we've seen from the universe since ESB. Easily.
I agree with this overall point. The characters were very well done and carried the film. But more to the point, I just don't see any "lazy writing" in The Force Awakens at all. Whether fans may agree or disagree with some of the choices that were made, it seems very clear to me that this is a very well-crafted, well-written film. Abrams and his team had a vision, and far from being lazy, they clearly carried out that vision with intent and purpose, and I feel that it, for the most part, really, really worked well.
Now let me disagree with one of your main points, J.D. A couple of issues with the Rey
as the "strongest female sci-fi/action lead in cinema history" point.
First, you and a few others have posted along the lines of "sci-fi/action has been in need of a true strong female lead, and we FINALLY got one." (I have also seen articles along those lines) I STRONGLY disagree, and I take exception to that. In MOST genres, we just need good characters, period. It shouldn't matter that they are female, or a minority, or whatever, as long as they are good characters. The world isn't somehow a better place just because we have affirmative action in movie casting. I don't see it is a moral victory that a great character is female. Just give us good characters. Also, we HAVE had good female characters in many genres, both as leads and in supporting roles. I disagree with the notion that there has been a shortage. Is it true that the majority have been in supporting roles rather than lead roles? Yes. But again I say, so what? I don't feel that that should matter. I don't need to have my particular demographic represented in order to have a fuller, deeper enjoyment of my cinematic experience. (and thank goodness, since there aren't many middle-aged Ukranian Austrian Spaniards lighting up the silver screen last time I checked).
Second, and as alluded to above, there have been strong female lead roles. And while I think Rey is a very well-written character, I think at least one of the two you mentioned above surpass her, if not both of them. Well, okay, maybe not Ripley. Ellen Ripley is a good character. But the more I think about it, she isn't a GREAT character. We immediately sympathize with her because of the horror she lived through in the first film and the strength she showed, despite not having any formal combat training that we know of. So we like her right off the bad despite that, when I really think about it, I have a difficult time pointing out anything that really makes her a very deep or complex character. Then in #2, we fall deeper in love with her because she is a caring "mother figure," on one hand, while being completely hardcore on the other hand. But she still isn't really deep or complex. And maybe that's okay. Katniss, on the other hand, is a very deep, complex, and well-written character. I thought she was handled very well in the films, but even more so in the novels. She has complex, well-written motivations, emotions, and background. She is strong, yet vulnerable. She is independent, yet a tool of the system. Like her or hate her, I think she is more developed and complex in just the first film/book than Rey. And that isn't a knock on Rey at all. Just pointing out that there are some VERY well-done female characters in the genre that can easily compete with, if not surpass, Rey's character.
Sorry if that was unnecessarily long, but I have been stewing over this point for awhile and just got around to posting on the subject.
-
I just saw the movie for the third time, and I absolutely love Rey. More than any other character ever? I don't know, I'm still in hype-mode. And it is only one movie. But I think it's possible for Rey, over the course of the whole new trilogy, to become one of my favorite fictional characters. The potential is certainly there, as she was the best part of this movie, and I can't quite remember when I was last this excited over a movie character.
-
Interestingly, as I think back on it, although I again feel the character development was easily the strongest of any of the SW films and really did a lot for this movie, I'm not really OVERLY enamored with any of the characters. Not that I dislike them, but...I dunno. :dunno:
-
I don't know, maybe it's just Sta Wars hype, but I am pumed for Rey. that sounded better in my head
-
In my opinion, while The Force Awakens certainly re-used a bunch of stuff from the original trilogy, it was still a great film because it felt very different from any other Star Wars movie. The pace was quicker, it had much more humor, the characters were deeper, and there were some original touches along the way. It was essentially two hours of fan service that JJ used to usher in a new generation of characters, which I thought worked great, because by the end of the film my nostalgia was satisfied and all I really cared about was what was going to happen to Finn, Rey, and Kylo Ren.
pretty much sums it up.
Using nostalgia and the same theme ALL Star Wars films have used isn't lazy writing, it was smart. Especially when Disney and Abrams knew full well they had to win back over a large population of fans after the debacle that was the Prequels. All in all....at the end of the day....that movie accomplished everything it should have....most importantly what TheOutlawXanadu says last "by the end of the film my nostalgia was satisfied and all I really cared about was what was going to happen to Finn, Rey, and Kylo Ren."
-
I know a few people who use the "It was too similar to ANH" argument as a reason for not liking it, but that didn't bother me at all. To me those elements were clearly borrowed, but used in a refreshing way. Considering this functions both as a sequel and a reboot of the franchise, I think it was OK to borrow those elements. Plus, ANH is almost 40 years old. That's right, 40. With that in mind, it should bother people even less.
Overall I think Chris Stuckmann said it well. The OT was beloved by most people, the prequels get almost universal hate, and then people hate on TFA for being too close to the OT. Really?
-
I mean, I see the stuff it borrowed from ANH. I noticed it the first time I saw it. It never bothered me because it's a few overall plot points. Underneath those general things there's an entirely unique story happening, for the characters. It's not like Rey is a copy of Luke's character, and none of the characters' personal story is really all that similar to any in the original. That would have been a bad way to do it, but it didn't, so it's all good.
As I said before, just saw it for the third time, and loved it more an both the other times. It only gets better.
-
I know a few people who use the "It was too similar to ANH" argument as a reason for not liking it, but that didn't bother me at all. To me those elements were clearly borrowed, but used in a refreshing way. Considering this functions both as a sequel and a reboot of the franchise, I think it was OK to borrow those elements. Plus, ANH is almost 40 years old. That's right, 40. With that in mind, it should bother people even less.
Overall I think Chris Stuckmann said it well. The OT was beloved by most people, the prequels get almost universal hate, and then people hate on TFA for being too close to the OT. Really?
And we all know had Abrams decided NOT to use nostalgic imagery or 'themes' and branched off on his own.....the HATE he'd have gotten for not doing so would be ten times thicker than the spotty criticism he gets for the tributes to ANH. I think he took the correct road in that choice....
-
The only thing I will say is that if Episode VIII follows the blueprint of Episode V, it might start to bother me a bit, but I don't think that's what's going to happen. I think VIII is going to change things up.
-
The only thing I will say is that if Episode VIII follows the blueprint of Episode V, it might start to bother me a bit, but I don't think that's what's going to happen. I think VIII is going to change things up.
Well I think you might be disappointed. It seems obvious in a 3 movie run that the bad guys will have a resurgence just like V.
-
It's the Shattered Fortress of the Star Wars Universe.
-
The only thing I will say is that if Episode VIII follows the blueprint of Episode V, it might start to bother me a bit, but I don't think that's what's going to happen. I think VIII is going to change things up.
Well I think you might be disappointed. It seems obvious in a 3 movie run that the bad guys will have a resurgence just like V.
Likely, but that is pretty standard for a trilogy or 3-act play, etc. I don't think that is what he means.
It's the Shattered Fortress of the Star Wars Universe.
Correct. It is THAT good.
-
It's the Shattered Fortress of the Star Wars Universe.
Correct. It is THAT good.
LOL
-
My three complaints about the film:
1. As a whole, the pacing was a bit too fast at the expense of proper storytelling.
2. Kylo Ren is not a good villain. Far from convincing, he comes across like a whiny teenager. This isn't at all what I was expecting based on his appearance.
3. The scene with Leia and Han talking about their son was awkward and poorly written. It didn't feel like a natural conversation; it felt like a lazy way to communicate information to the audience.
Other than that, as a very casual Star Wars fan, it was solid. I mostly enjoyed it.
-
I mean, I see the stuff it borrowed from ANH. I noticed it the first time I saw it. It never bothered me because it's a few overall plot points. Underneath those general things there's an entirely unique story happening, for the characters. It's not like Rey is a copy of Luke's character, and none of the characters' personal story is really all that similar to any in the original. That would have been a bad way to do it, but it didn't, so it's all good.
As I said before, just saw it for the third time, and loved it more an both the other times. It only gets better.
Completely this...
And Gadough... give Rylo a chance to sink in. This is *NOT* Anakin, but it is Anakin the way it should have been.
For me, Rylo was an extreme left turn from everything I was expecting. I really didn't like it at first either. Taking off the mask was just a HUGE WTF for me. But the more three-dimensional I noticed the character to be, his motivations and age and actions all dovetailing with who he was. His conflict, his anger. And I didn't hear any of Anakin's "whinyness" at all. It was just the angry, rebellious young man who is pissed off at the world, and resentful of his father (like many men his age are) and he's acting out. Kindof reminds me of when I ran away from home, and the first thing I did was go out and buy Venom's "Possessed" because it was the most evil looking thing I could find in the record store. :rollin
-
Second viewing with my sis was a lot better than the first for me. I love the homages to the past films and people saying that it's taking the OT and basically churning it out with a new coat of paint are full of it. But hey, that's just like, my opinion, man. It's a great balance of "this was our past and we're acknowledging it", and "here is where we're taking the franchise from here on out and these are our players". Absolutely pidgeonholed a few things from multiple OT films but the drama queens blowing it out of proportion are making mountains of mole hills. Great start to a new trilogy. I'll echo the enjoyment of the characters. While I liked a lot of the scenery they did show, I can definitely see where Gadough is coming from in that a lot of it felt rushed. I'd have loved to see more of the planets they traversed and that bar scene with Maz (sp?) begged to be slowed down to get a nice view of all the goobers in it. I also felt like the massive win from exploding the SUPERGUNPLANET was just kind of mulled over like "kdone". Literally took a couple minutes for the entire 'battle' to go down and then boom, okay back to the real light saber action.
All in all, definitely a massive amount of room to improve but it was a fun movie. The first time I nodded off halfway, so that might be why I really enjoyed it this time. :lol Taking the kiddos was mainly for them initially and now I got to actually watch it.
-
2. Kylo Ren is not a good villain. Far from convincing, he comes across like a whiny teenager. This isn't at all what I was expecting based on his appearance.
No way man. He was an awesome villain. If anything it sounds like you're judging him on what you were expecting and not judging him as a character alone.
I think Episode 8 will mirror Empire in the sense that it will be the darkest in the trilogy and really build up the conflict much more, but I hope we don't get any shoved in nods to Empire, like Luke telling Rey "I am your father" or anything like that.
-
Kylo Ren is just behind Rey as my favorite character. He was awesome both pre-mask-removal and post-mask-removal.
-
Just saw it for the first time and while it was overall awesome, there are so many things that go unexplained that I'll have to wait until episodes 8 and 9 and/or future novels to fully appreciate it.
A few of them are:
1. Kylo Ren's background/motivation to join the dark side
2. What does Kylo Ren ultimately want with Luke? Why is Luke so important that the First Order is willing to devote massive amounts of resources to finding him?
3. Who/what is Snoke and how did he become the leader of the First Order?
4. How did the First Order arise from the ashes of the Empire?
5. How was Starkiller Base built?
6. Rey's background and her connection, if there is one, to Luke
7. Why did R2D2 wake up all of a sudden and how did it have the missing piece of the map to find Luke? I would think that Luke wouldn't have told anyone where he was not even R2D2.
8. Where did C-3PO come from all of a sudden? Why does he have a red arm?
9. What's the story behind Lor San Tekka (the village elder)? How did he acquire the map?
9. And of course: do Kylo Ren and Han actually survive? (Well probably not Han but Kylo Ren definitely stands a chance.)
As far as the heroes go, I think Rey is a great character and is extremely well-written/acted but my favorite new character is definitely Finn. He's a pretty radical innovation in the SW universe actually because the original trilogy presents stormtroopers as essentially mindless drones whereas obviously has a mind of his own. I do think that his conversion was a bit rushed but that's understandable given the amount of time needed to tackle the larger plot points. Finn is really bold, cocky and overall fun - just the kind of character needed to reinvigorate the franchise.
What I really like about Rey though besides her personality itself is her potential. She was able to resist Kylo Ren even when he was using maximum Force power, which is pretty damn impressive. She might just surpass Luke in terms of ability.
As far as Kylo Ren goes, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand with his mask on he's a new brand of evil that arguably surpasses Vader. On the other hand without his mask he strikes me as an immature guy (barely more than a boy) who throws temper tantrums and hates his dad and uncle. I guess we'll have to see how his character develops in the the following (assuming he survives). Most of the time though I felt he was just as strong a villain as Vader, and the bridge scene was a pretty original twist on the Luke-Vader father scene.
My biggest gripe though was the ending. Seriously, Luke doesn't say a single word? It should have at least shown if he accepted his lightsaber back or not, imo. That was one hell of a cliffhanger and it'll be hard to wait two years to see what happens next.
Overall, this is a great addition to the canon and tastefully borrows elements from the original trilogy. I think this film was mainly meant to sort of refresh our memories about the original trilogy and explain it to people who aren't that familiar with the Star Wars universe even while it's gradually pointing the series in a new direction. As important as this film is, I think episodes 8 and 9 will really be the ones that determine the fate of Star Wars as a whole. Those films will definitely need to answer some of the questions from this film and incorporate a lot more new elements than this one had to really progress the series.
Oh and needless to say, this was definitely way better than the prequels.
On a last side note, I wonder if there'll be any tie-ins between this film and Rogue One. All I can think of is that Rogue One might hint at some early plans for Starkiller Base or show the beginnings of the First Order possibly as some sort of contingency plan for if/when the Empire falls. Any other theories? In any case, it'll be pretty interesting to see the first Star Wars spinoff film.
-
Kylo Ren is just behind Rey as my favorite character. He was awesome both pre-mask-removal and post-mask-removal.
Speaking of which, I was perfectly fine with the removal (my friend audibly gasped "oh my God, he's beautiful!") but I wish he had kept it on for the rest of the movie after that. I probably would have taken him more seriously.
-
Just saw it for the first time and while it was overall awesome, there are so many things that go unexplained that I'll have to wait until episodes 8 and 9 and/or future novels to fully appreciate it.
A few of them are:
1. Kylo Ren's background/motivation to join the dark side
2. What does Kylo Ren ultimately want with Luke? Why is Luke so important that the First Order is willing to devote massive amounts of resources to finding him?
3. Who/what is Snoke and how did he become the leader of the First Order?
4. How did the First Order arise from the ashes of the Empire?
5. How was Starkiller Base built?
6. Rey's background and her connection, if there is one, to Luke
7. Why did R2D2 wake up all of a sudden and how did it have the missing piece of the map to find Luke? I would think that Luke wouldn't have told anyone where he was not even R2D2.
8. Where did C-3PO come from all of a sudden? Why does he have a red arm?
9. What's the story behind Lor San Tekka (the village elder)? How did he acquire the map?
9. And of course: do Kylo Ren and Han actually survive? (Well probably not Han but Kylo Ren definitely stands a chance.)
Based on what I've read, and I could be completely wrong here, the sequel trilogy is more concerned with emotion than explanation, so I'd be surprised if all of these questions are answered in the films. I think JJ might have already answered #7 in an interview, and #9 seems ripe for a novel or something.
In my opinion, how the Starkiller base was built or why C-3PO has a red arm don't really matter. Even the bigger stuff like how Maz Kanata got Luke's light saber aren't of interest to me. I think it's actually pretty fun to leave a bunch of stuff unanswered that doesn't directly impact how the series moves forward.
Also, congrats on post 2112. :P
-
Kylo Ren is just behind Rey as my favorite character. He was awesome both pre-mask-removal and post-mask-removal.
Speaking of which, I was perfectly fine with the removal (my friend audibly gasped "oh my God, he's beautiful!") but I wish he had kept it on for the rest of the movie after that. I probably would have taken him more seriously.
If you want a pure badass you always have Darth Vader. I'm happy that they didn't try to create another Vader, and instead made Kylo Ren a human character you could actually relate to. Instead of storming in and killing people left and right, showing no emotion and being invincible, Kylo Ren was a much more layered and interesting character. You could tell he was conflicted and I bought that he was a good guy that turned to the dark side.
-
So I finally got around to seeing this and my tastes in movies must have changed by this point because I was very underwhelmed. I'm not entirely sure what I was expecting since I was trying to keep myself out of any information for fear of spoilers (how I lasted over 10 days online without something coming up is beyond me) but while the movie is entertaining I just didn't feel engaged like I want out of a movie nowadays, especially one with ties to movies I've loved since I was a kid. I was going to break down the stuff I didn't like but instead of nit-picking I guess I'll just touch on a couple of things that bugged me.
The pacing was way too quick, almost to a Ridley Scott level of bad. This sort of rushed a lot of scenes that threw me off like when the Resistance is planning on taking on the Starkiller and they come up with an entire battle plan in literally 20 seconds. The pacing also killed the buildup to anything important like the destruction of the Republic (Coruscant?) because you get a few minutes to hear "We made a weapon. This is what it does. Let's do this bad thing." and then it's over. Even with knowledge of what was happening because I know about Star Wars it happened way too fast and there was no residual effects amongst the Resistance for what happened. The movie had a hard time telling me what I should be investing my emotions into.
The only other little thing, and this is very minor I know, is the fan service was a tad bit too much, especially when it lead into some very corny dialogue. Nothing showstopping but my brand of fan service is more subtle like when Finn is going through stuff in the Falcon and tosses aside the little orb Luke used to train with in A New Hope. The chessboard, however, was a little too much. Even the whole Han thing asking about where a trash compactor was on the Starkiller was probably better on paper than execution since by that point the movie had been saturated to the point of almost parody.
What I did like was the way the film was shot and written meaning you could tell that the team that made it actually cared about the Star Wars universe and franchise. The new characters don't bug the crap out of you and are actually kind of interesting. They treated Kylo Ren very well although I don't really like the way they unveiled the relation between him and Han/Leia so early. I'm glad they didn't kill him off ala Darth Maul so they can actually build him up as a villain in the coming films. I'm curious now if the slash Rey made across his face will make him wear the mask the entire time from now on.
I may need some more time to let the movie sink in but these are just my initial thoughts after leaving the theater. Ultimately it felt like the storyline that a good TV show based on a brand would produce, not a storyline to a premiere movie series.
-
Kylo Ren is just behind Rey as my favorite character. He was awesome both pre-mask-removal and post-mask-removal.
Speaking of which, I was perfectly fine with the removal (my friend audibly gasped "oh my God, he's beautiful!") but I wish he had kept it on for the rest of the movie after that. I probably would have taken him more seriously.
If you want a pure badass you always have Darth Vader. I'm happy that they didn't try to create another Vader, and instead made Kylo Ren a human character you could actually relate to. Instead of storming in and killing people left and right, showing no emotion and being invincible, Kylo Ren was a much more layered and interesting character. You could tell he was conflicted and I bought that he was a good guy that turned to the dark side.
Agree to disagree. I hate to say it, but I'm really not seeing a huge difference between Anakin and Kylo Ren. Without doing some in-depth character analysis they both act like little bitches. Maybe Anakin's worse, sure. I hope they toughen Kylo up in the next installment.
-
At least Kylo is a villain. Anakin was our protagonist for the prequels, which is a pretty depressing thought.
-
Kylo Ren is just behind Rey as my favorite character. He was awesome both pre-mask-removal and post-mask-removal.
Speaking of which, I was perfectly fine with the removal (my friend audibly gasped "oh my God, he's beautiful!") but I wish he had kept it on for the rest of the movie after that. I probably would have taken him more seriously.
If you want a pure badass you always have Darth Vader. I'm happy that they didn't try to create another Vader, and instead made Kylo Ren a human character you could actually relate to. Instead of storming in and killing people left and right, showing no emotion and being invincible, Kylo Ren was a much more layered and interesting character. You could tell he was conflicted and I bought that he was a good guy that turned to the dark side.
Agree to disagree. I hate to say it, but I'm really not seeing a huge difference between Anakin and Kylo Ren. Without doing some in-depth character analysis they both act like little bitches. Maybe Anakin's worse, sure. I hope they toughen Kylo up in the next installment.
Ehh. . Kylo was WAY more developed than Anakin IMO. I mean, there's even a scene with humor when after he sliced the room up in a fit of rage he calmly asks "anything else?" To the officer. That was funny.
I don't think there's any question in my mind 'they' have a three movie plan for Rens character and this one was to show that he does have power and Force 'talent'.....but he's still very inexperienced. Undoubtedly within the first few scenes of the next movie they will have worked out a way to show both Ren and Rey's advancement.
-
I love Rey, we've needed a character like that in a long time!
-
So I'm curious where you guys stand on it after having seen the film.. I say Rey is definitely Luke Skywalker's daughter.
Apart from the fact that she is really strong with the force, I think there were several parts of the film that really hinted strongly towards that. For example, her connection to the Luke/Anakin lightsaber. The fact that her parents left her, simultaneously as Luke vanished to go into hiding. I would even say the way Luke looked at her in the end. It was only briefly, but it didn't feel like "Who is this random girl handing me my lightsaber?", it felt almost like he recognized her.
My guess would be that after the Knights of Ren turned on Luke, he had to go on his mission, and maybe he did a mind swipe with the force to protect Rey and he left her on the safest planet in his eyes, a dump like Jakku, which in several parts of the movie is referenced like a really bad place you don't want to go to. It also makes sense why it wasn't Tatooine again. I guess we'll get more insight in Episode 8 if this is the case, but she has to be a Skywalker and Leia/Han never mentioned having a daughter, so I think we can cross that off the list, and that leaves Luke IMO. Sure, I know some people say that if Luke did indeed have a child, he broke the jedi code and so on. What if, Luke had a child, then after seeing the Knights of Ren turn on him so easily and going dark, he was afraid he would fall to the dark side as well, so the only thing he knew was to go into hiding at the first Jedi temple, maybe find a bigger purpose or just meditate. Maybe he planned on returning to his daughter but he didn't complete his mission yet.
I agree with this. Wasn't there a part in the movie where someone straight up said Luke left her on Jakku?
-
I hope we get some good screentime from Luke in episode 8, more background on Rey. A completely original story this time around...
-
I hope we get some good screentime from Luke in episode 8, more background on Rey. A completely original story this time around...
Yes to all of this.
-
Why is Luke so important that the First Order is willing to devote massive amounts of resources to finding him?
Easy one. Luke is the last Jedi. Killing him would prevent any other Jedi (theoretically) from being trained to stop Ren and Snoke.
-
Why is Luke so important that the First Order is willing to devote massive amounts of resources to finding him?
Easy one. Luke is the last Jedi. Killing him would prevent any other Jedi (theoretically) from being trained to stop Ren and Snoke.
Yeah! It goes both ways, Luke himself could stop Snoke/Ren, but he could also teach the Jedi-ways to others who are strong in the force. I think the quest to find and destroy Luke has more to do with preventing the resistance from finding him and getting his help. Plus, for Ren it's a personal motivation that drives him. He probably feels like beating Luke will be his final test in becoming a Sith.
-
One small thing I noticed was when the Falcon was taking off at the end to go find Luke it looks like R2D2 is in the crowd on the right near C3PO yet he's audibly and maybe visually on the planet they land on when they find him. Was that another R2 unit in the crowd?
-
What do you hippies think of this: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-8-is-going-to-be-weird-promises-screenwriter-a6788031.html
Gives me hope that 8 and 9 will not be a plot-point rehash (one of the nerds arguments against 7) :corn
I hope that they don't try and bring Han back from the dead, come on! Ford wanted to Han to die in episode 5, then 6. Its a loooong time.
-
One small thing I noticed was when the Falcon was taking off at the end to go find Luke it looks like R2D2 is in the crowd on the right near C3PO yet he's audibly and maybe visually on the planet they land on when they find him. Was that another R2 unit in the crowd?
I looked for this on my third viewing, and yes, that's another R2 unit.
-
What do you hippies think of this: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-8-is-going-to-be-weird-promises-screenwriter-a6788031.html
Gives me hope that 8 and 9 will not be a plot-point rehash (one of the nerds arguments against 7) :corn
I hope that they don't try and bring Han back from the dead, come on! Ford wanted to Han to die in episode 5, then 6. Its a loooong time.
There was already an article confirming Harrison's return...but I'll bet the farm it's in the form of "flashback" scenes.
-
Am I the only one who's a little bit concerned about CT directing Episode IX? Maybe I just don't know his work well enough, but I'd feel much more confident with JJ or Johnson instead.
-
Am I the only one who's a little bit concerned about CT directing Episode IX? Maybe I just don't know his work well enough, but I'd feel much more confident with JJ or Johnson instead.
Not sure if I'm concerned, but definitely wary at this point. However, I think Disney and Lucasfilm will both be keeping a firm grip on the reins, so I don't expect it will get too far off track with any particular director/writer.
-
As long as JJ is the executive producer, that means he has final say. So I'm not overly worried.
-
Went and saw it with the family. I liked it.
-
The pacing was way too quick, almost to a Ridley Scott level of bad. This sort of rushed a lot of scenes that threw me off like when the Resistance is planning on taking on the Starkiller and they come up with an entire battle plan in literally 20 seconds. The pacing also killed the buildup to anything important like the destruction of the Republic (Coruscant?) because you get a few minutes to hear "We made a weapon. This is what it does. Let's do this bad thing." and then it's over. Even with knowledge of what was happening because I know about Star Wars it happened way too fast and there was no residual effects amongst the Resistance for what happened. The movie had a hard time telling me what I should be investing my emotions into.
Yeah, this is my one major problem with the film. I mentioned it in my post, but you elaborated on the point very well in terms of capturing how I also feel about it. But this is a gripe I have about a LOT of movies nowadays. It seems like screenwriters/directors/whoever just try to cram in way too much, and it ends up hurting the overall story rather than helping it because you sacrifice depth and leave too many things feeling unresolved, even if there is what is supposed to be a "resolution."
-
The pacing was way too quick, almost to a Ridley Scott level of bad. This sort of rushed a lot of scenes that threw me off like when the Resistance is planning on taking on the Starkiller and they come up with an entire battle plan in literally 20 seconds. The pacing also killed the buildup to anything important like the destruction of the Republic (Coruscant?) because you get a few minutes to hear "We made a weapon. This is what it does. Let's do this bad thing." and then it's over. Even with knowledge of what was happening because I know about Star Wars it happened way too fast and there was no residual effects amongst the Resistance for what happened. The movie had a hard time telling me what I should be investing my emotions into.
Yeah, this is my one major problem with the film. I mentioned it in my post, but you elaborated on the point very well in terms of capturing how I also feel about it. But this is a gripe I have about a LOT of movies nowadays. It seems like screenwriters/directors/whoever just try to cram in way too much, and it ends up hurting the overall story rather than helping it because you sacrifice depth and leave too many things feeling unresolved, even if there is what is supposed to be a "resolution."
I'd personally be fine with a change of culture to where movies would generally be 3 hours long, rather than the 2:20-2:40 they 'typically' are. The 3 hour mark would correct some of the pacing issues I think, plus...it'd give the viewers a better product IMO.
The potential downfall would be having to sit through a 3 hour 'bad' movie. But with TFA and most other movies I've seen....I'd gladly sit for 3 hours given how much I liked them.
-
The pacing was way too quick, almost to a Ridley Scott level of bad. This sort of rushed a lot of scenes that threw me off like when the Resistance is planning on taking on the Starkiller and they come up with an entire battle plan in literally 20 seconds. The pacing also killed the buildup to anything important like the destruction of the Republic (Coruscant?) because you get a few minutes to hear "We made a weapon. This is what it does. Let's do this bad thing." and then it's over. Even with knowledge of what was happening because I know about Star Wars it happened way too fast and there was no residual effects amongst the Resistance for what happened. The movie had a hard time telling me what I should be investing my emotions into.
Yeah, this is my one major problem with the film. I mentioned it in my post, but you elaborated on the point very well in terms of capturing how I also feel about it. But this is a gripe I have about a LOT of movies nowadays. It seems like screenwriters/directors/whoever just try to cram in way too much, and it ends up hurting the overall story rather than helping it because you sacrifice depth and leave too many things feeling unresolved, even if there is what is supposed to be a "resolution."
I'd personally be fine with a change of culture to where movies would generally be 3 hours long, rather than the 2:20-2:40 they 'typically' are. The 3 hour mark would correct some of the pacing issues I think, plus...it'd give the viewers a better product IMO.
The potential downfall would be having to sit through a 3 hour 'bad' movie. But with TFA and most other movies I've seen....I'd gladly sit for 3 hours given how much I liked them.
I wouldn't mind longer films either, but I think you are kidding yourself if you think that would fix the problem. Movies are longer now than they were where I was growing up, and despite the longer average running time, pacing seems to be much more of a problem now. I'm not saying there is a correlation. But I do think that just adding more time isn't going to solve the problem. It just gives more space for the writers to try to fill up rather than having them just slow down and take more time to develop ideas.
-
One thing that pacing hurt in this film was the real lack of buildup towards the finale. In A New Hope the buildup to the Death Star battle seemed to take longer and the battle was epic and meaningful. Granted we had to deal with characters on the ground this time around but every single sequence, whether it be the people on the ground or stuff in the air, was so quick that you never really got a payoff since the movie showed you "this is where they need to be" *instant cut* "here they are", repeat. There was no real sense of danger when they were on the Starkiller either since they never really ran into any of the troops even though we got the impression that it's this massive functioning facility and even if they did run into any troops we never get to see it. When our heroes were running around the Death Star in ANH we got to see all the ducking, shooting, and evading which made the scenes thrilling. In TFA we just see the characters where they needed to be, unharmed, and doing things they were supposed to be. I don't need to see these guys walking every step but it began to play like one of those 2-hour encore compilation recap videos of a baseball game.
-
One thing that pacing hurt in this film was the real lack of buildup towards the finale. In A New Hope the buildup to the Death Star battle seemed to take longer and the battle was epic and meaningful. Granted we had to deal with characters on the ground this time around but every single sequence, whether it be the people on the ground or stuff in the air, was so quick that you never really got a payoff since the movie showed you "this is where they need to be" *instant cut* "here they are", repeat. There was no real sense of danger when they were on the Starkiller either since they never really ran into any of the troops even though we got the impression that it's this massive functioning facility and even if they did run into any troops we never get to see it. When our heroes were running around the Death Star in ANH we got to see all the ducking, shooting, and evading which made the scenes thrilling. In TFA we just see the characters where they needed to be, unharmed, and doing things they were supposed to be. I don't need to see these guys walking every step but it began to play like one of those 2-hour encore compilation recap videos of a baseball game.
I think it just depends how you look at it. What you're saying about there being a lack of build up toward them blowing up the Starkiller base is probably true; however, the real finale of the film, in my opinion, is the light saber fight with Kylo Ren, which essentially the entire movie was building to. When it finally happens, and considering Ren just killed his dad, it's pretty freaking epic. In Episode IV, the buildup to them escaping the Death Star took longer because it was the whole point of the middle act of the film. In Episode VII, the Starkiller base is more of a side show.
-
I rewatched the film last week. Boy, it gets better each time!
-
Mrs. P has us scheduled to see it again New Years Eve! Can't wait to see it again.
-
One thing that pacing hurt in this film was the real lack of buildup towards the finale. In A New Hope the buildup to the Death Star battle seemed to take longer and the battle was epic and meaningful. Granted we had to deal with characters on the ground this time around but every single sequence, whether it be the people on the ground or stuff in the air, was so quick that you never really got a payoff since the movie showed you "this is where they need to be" *instant cut* "here they are", repeat. There was no real sense of danger when they were on the Starkiller either since they never really ran into any of the troops even though we got the impression that it's this massive functioning facility and even if they did run into any troops we never get to see it. When our heroes were running around the Death Star in ANH we got to see all the ducking, shooting, and evading which made the scenes thrilling. In TFA we just see the characters where they needed to be, unharmed, and doing things they were supposed to be. I don't need to see these guys walking every step but it began to play like one of those 2-hour encore compilation recap videos of a baseball game.
I think it just depends how you look at it. What you're saying about there being a lack of build up toward them blowing up the Starkiller base is probably true; however, the real finale of the film, in my opinion, is the light saber fight with Kylo Ren, which essentially the entire movie was building to. When it finally happens, and considering Ren just killed his dad, it's pretty freaking epic. In Episode IV, the buildup to them escaping the Death Star took longer because it was the whole point of the middle act of the film. In Episode VII, the Starkiller base is more of a side show.
I get it. But it's not like there only needs to be ONE crucial event that we have a slow build to. Even if we take for granted that the light saber battle was THE climactic event, the Starkiller base was still huge. I mean, the thing could erase millions of lives and was about to wipe out the resistance. Even if we relegate its destruction to secondary importance, it is still of such importance that not giving the events surrounding its destruction a fair, realistic buildup feels like an oversight.
-
To me, the Starkiller base in general seemed a little tacked on. It was probably a combination of JJ needing something like that to set up a final battle, and wanting to tip his hat to the originals.
-
The problem lies in introducing the weapon from the beginning. If there is a way to create a weapon that powerful and it has been achieved once, almost twice before, why wouldn't the evil empire try to create that weapon again? Once you introduce something that powerful, it's a game changer. With that said, it also takes such a time to build one, that with the destruction of this base, we most likely won't have another one in this trilogy.
There's been 30 years between Jedi and Force Awakens. With Luke out of the picture, and the first order trying to achieve world domination, why wouldn't they build another death star? Put the fact that you may think it's repetitive aside, it makes perfect sense from a logical standpoint.
-
Saw the film last night, and it was solid. Not sure I get the "AMAZING RETURN TO FORM" comments, but then I thought Episode III was strong as well, and liked Episode II just fine.
In terms of characters, this was a VERY strong film (treating it as the first part of the story) I thought. In terms of plot, it was fine but nothing special. Slightly too much similarity to Episode IV perhaps, which overall doesn't bother me as it fits with the Star Wars "history repeats itself" theme (particularly if Rey is a Skywalker), but towards the end with the Starkiller base it was all just a bit TOO similar for me. And then for apparently no reason the entire planet disintegrated and then exploded.
One thing that pacing hurt in this film was the real lack of buildup towards the finale. In A New Hope the buildup to the Death Star battle seemed to take longer and the battle was epic and meaningful. Granted we had to deal with characters on the ground this time around but every single sequence, whether it be the people on the ground or stuff in the air, was so quick that you never really got a payoff since the movie showed you "this is where they need to be" *instant cut* "here they are", repeat. There was no real sense of danger when they were on the Starkiller either since they never really ran into any of the troops even though we got the impression that it's this massive functioning facility and even if they did run into any troops we never get to see it. When our heroes were running around the Death Star in ANH we got to see all the ducking, shooting, and evading which made the scenes thrilling. In TFA we just see the characters where they needed to be, unharmed, and doing things they were supposed to be. I don't need to see these guys walking every step but it began to play like one of those 2-hour encore compilation recap videos of a baseball game.
I think it just depends how you look at it. What you're saying about there being a lack of build up toward them blowing up the Starkiller base is probably true; however, the real finale of the film, in my opinion, is the light saber fight with Kylo Ren, which essentially the entire movie was building to. When it finally happens, and considering Ren just killed his dad, it's pretty freaking epic. In Episode IV, the buildup to them escaping the Death Star took longer because it was the whole point of the middle act of the film. In Episode VII, the Starkiller base is more of a side show.
I would agree with this. Part of the problem with movies in general, I think, is that we've got used to really great TV shows these days that, with their considerably longer run time overall, can create large amounts of both plot and character development. In a way, movies work best when focussing on one more than the other, otherwise they risk being very busy. And with the new SW films, they seem to be prioritising character, which is totally fine by me.
-
The problem lies in introducing the weapon from the beginning. If there is a way to create a weapon that powerful and it has been achieved once, almost twice before, why wouldn't the evil empire try to create that weapon again? Once you introduce something that powerful, it's a game changer. With that said, it also takes such a time to build one, that with the destruction of this base, we most likely won't have another one in this trilogy.
I'd really love them to explore ideas like those in the KOTOR video games. Some truly epic stuff and not just "take over the galaxy with a planet sized super-weapon again".
-
**EDIT - Oh yeah! Did anyone else notice that the speech Luke gives in the very first trailer, was not in the movie? The one about the force being strong in his family...
Wasn't that just taken from Jedi?
Not quite, no. For a start, I'm 95% certain it's a new recording as his voice sounds very different, deeper. Plus, while it has the original wording, it also adds on at the end "you have that power too". Couldn't really be a clearer reference to someone in the Skywalker lineage. Admittedly it COULD refer to Kylo Ren, but I would say it's more likely Rey. Though similarly she could be Ren's sister.
Here it is again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngElkyQ6Rhs
-
I don't see her being sister to Kylo Ren mainly because Han and Leia never mentions anything about a daughter. Even if they did a jedi mind swipe and put her on Jakku to be safe, it would be weird that they show no remorse about it, considering how much Leia wants for Han to return home with Ben.
Personally I still think she's the daughter of Luke. Even if Jedi aren't supposed to fall in love or have children, Luke is the son of Anakin, a Jedi who fell in love and had children. Luke has that same "weakness" in him, and I don't think it's far fetched that maybe he did accidentally find someone special and had a child, stranger things happen. The second most plausible thing I could see happening is her being the offspring to Kenobi. That wouldn't bother me at all, and I would be okay with that as well. Even though I think you gotta put some limits on how much you connect characters, I still love the idea of Star Wars being a Skywalker-centric story, and that's mainly why I hope Rey is the daughter of Luke. I loved Rey and thought Daisy Ridley was amazing, and I really hope she becomes that strong Jedi that carries on the story in the true Skywalker-spirit. Sure, Ben is also a Skywalker and I think he will turn to the light in Episode 9, but Rey really is the main character, so it would make sense. Still, I don't need for Finn to be the offspring to Lando or Mace Windu, or Poe Dameron to be a distant relative to Han Solo. But keep the Skywalker DNA in the center and I'm happy. :)
-
Even though I never agreed with the Jedi not being able to love thing, regardless, we never saw Yoda or Obi Wan pulling Luke aside during his training to be like "oh, by the way, don't ever fall in love or have a family or anything"
They may have done it at some point off screen, but that was probably the last thing on their mind at the time.
So it could simply be that Luke didn't even know he wasn't supposed to.
-
The force isn't as strong as punani.
-
Hey, King, thanks for teaching me a new word.
-
The force isn't as strong as punani.
:lol
-
You're welcome young padawan.
-
The power of the poon is a path to the dark side of the force.
-
The power of the poon is a path to the dark side of the force.
So Jedi happen by osmosis? :lol
-
I always thought the whole "no feelings" aspect of the Jedi was such BS. I get why feelings like anger or hate would lead to the dark side, but compassion or love? If anything the idea of suppressing your feelings feels more like something I would connect to the dark side.
But overall the Jedi is dead. We're far from the days of when Anakin was a young Jedi and the galaxy was filled with them, with Luke being all alone, even if tradition is important, I think the Jedi ways may have to change and adapt to survive.
-
Well, compassion and love wasn't really forbidden per se, just attachment. The way I understood it is that they are very much allowed to feel stuff, but to not let their personal feelings get in the way of the bigger picture. Which then by nature excludes marriage and kids. Not something I'm really a fan of, but that's how I understand it. If the sequel trilogy ditches the whole concept I'd be fine with it.
-
Finally saw this Tuesday night. An amazing movie, especially in iMax. Loved a lot of things about it, especially some of the new characters.
That said, I have one *major* gripe. Way too many parallels to the original trilogy.
Another death star, but this time it's bigger? Really? They even acknowledge this in the film. I think if a parody show wanted to make a prediction trailer for the new film that's the premise they would have gone with. Kylo Ren was also far too similar to Darth Vader in his battle with the force and relationship with his family.
I really hope the next two movies don't rely on rehashing as much.
-
And then for apparently no reason the entire planet disintegrated and then exploded.
um, it was holding the power of an entire sun :lol
-
And then for apparently no reason the entire planet disintegrated and then exploded.
um, it was holding the power of an entire sun :lol
Oh, related to my other major gripe. Star Wars has never tried to explain much, so I generally approach things in that universe with a "it is because it is" approach. That said, that energy cannon... my lord. You have an energy stream that holds the power of a sun, and then somehow it magically splits into 5 beams and changes course to hit 5 different planets? What? It just defies ALL logic and reason, and really annoyed me. Would have been much happier had they fired a beam, turned the planet (yeah, I know, not much better), fired another, etc. And then the one scene where they show two planets practically side by side blowing up... that's not how space works, large planets are not that close. ANYWAY, it was still really good.
-
Nick to quote a band you love, "We suspend our disbelief:.
-
Yeah, the beam that split into five and took out five separate targets with no guidance system whatsoever was pretty bad. It looked cool, in a way, but made no sense at all.
-
I really love nit-picky stuff like this. I don't mean that sarcastically or in like a looking-down-my-nose kind of way because I absolutely do it to sometimes; it's just awesome.
When you start, you either have to accept that you're being ridiculous or you need to go over every single bit of info that's as equally ridiculous and with a series like this, it doesn't end; you'll just keep finding shit that doesn't make sense because god damn it, none of it does.
I get it though.
For instance, EVERY SINGLE TIME Kylo Ren dropped his helmet, in my head I thought "HOW MUCH DOES THAT MOTHERFUCKING HELMET WEIGH!?!? JEEEEEEEEEEEEZUS!"
...I mean really, how much? It sounds like a hunk of fucking adamantium every time it hit the floor. Like...you motherfuckers have sabers of light (that can apparently be blocked by simple electricity? Given how that Storm Trooper blocked Finn's saber with his supercoolwow flippy-gun (that is the official name)...another nit-pick) and hyperdrive, you can't develop an armor that doesn't weigh as much as the Millenium Falcon!?
-
It sounds like a hunk of fucking adamantium every time it hit the floor.
Wrong "universe" :lol
I totally agree with Tio. There's an all magical "force" that gives a select few telepathy, telekinesis, precognition, hypnosis, gives them super human strength, and THIS is where you start the line of "that wasn't believable"? :biggrin:
For starters, it may have been 5 streams all along, but were so close as they traveled across space, they appeared to be one until closer to the targets. Alternatively, it could be a similar to a firework - on burst leaves, then turns into multiple bursts.
C'mon... we have to suspend the belief of our understanding of physics and reality in the Star Wars Universe.
-
has anyone discussed this possibility (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLlu_RpElBs) about Rey from ESB?
Rey's age obviously is in question here, but her lineage may be known to Yoda.
Or maybe it just is about Leia. :P
-
Interesting theory, but the age and timeline is all wonky. "There is another" at the time was the amazing reveal that Leia is Luke's sister, and therefore has the same potential to use The Force. I agree that it's kinda fun to think that Yoda was hinting at someone else, or even another family line of Jedi somewhere, and also the prequels royally fucked this up because Obi-Wan knew all about both kids, but nah. Just a fun theory; no way it'll pan out.
-
I'm beginning to think more and more that Rey is Han and Leia's kid. I read an article that put Ren at 29 in the movie, Rey at 19. I don't think Han knew she was his daughter but I think Leia did. Han and Leia split up....Leia was either pregnant and didn't know or didn't tell Han. Either way, He's gone.....Ren goes nuts and joins the darkside so Leia 'hides' Rey.
The way Leia looked at Rey at the end she absolutely 'knew' who she was. That, along with the immediate connection she and Han had....you could see Han almost questioning 'who' this girl was, that she was familiar in a way. They finished each others sentences....the piloting characteristics. I think the film 'wants' us to believe it's Luke's daughter but given the franchises dedication to making things a 'family' matter......I think Rey will end up being Ren's sister, the ultimate sibling battle to where eventually....at the end of the third film.....they join together to defeat and kill Snoke once and for all. After Luke has been killed somehow of course.
-
I also think Rey is Han's daughter based on the way he looked at her and reacted to her during the movie. I think it would be cooler is she wasn't anyone's daughter and was just some random, but that probably won't happen. :lol
-
I also think Rey is Han's daughter based on the way he looked at her and reacted to her during the movie. I think it would be cooler is she wasn't anyone's daughter and was just some random, but that probably won't happen. :lol
I disagree to the extent of the entire STAR WARS story is based around one family....the Skywalkers. Rey is a Skywalker by blood. Having her be some random 'outsider' wouldn't be holding true to the entire theme of STAR WARS. I get that people want to 'complain' that TFA used too many nostalgia aspects and all....but making Rey NOT either Luke or Leia's kid would be a mistake IMO. She can't be just 'some' person strong with the force. She must be a Skywalker...which, I think there's about a 99% chance that she will be.
-
Han, really? I thought Luke, if anyone.
I mean, she got those random visions of him, is connected to his lightsaber (oh man...not changing the wording), Maz made numerous references to lineage when discussing her being left alone as well as the lightsaber generational tradition, on top of her massive use of the force despite never once being trained in it...
I think it's pretty obvious, but like you said, I'd love to be proven wrong and she is just a natural-born talent with no connection to anyone.
-
I'm beginning to think more and more that Rey is Han and Leia's kid. I read an article that put Ren at 29 in the movie, Rey at 19. I don't think Han knew she was his daughter but I think Leia did. Han and Leia split up....Leia was either pregnant and didn't know or didn't tell Han. Either way, He's gone.....Ren goes nuts and joins the darkside so Leia 'hides' Rey.
The way Leia looked at Rey at the end she absolutely 'knew' who she was. That, along with the immediate connection she and Han had....you could see Han almost questioning 'who' this girl was, that she was familiar in a way. They finished each others sentences....the piloting characteristics. I think the film 'wants' us to believe it's Luke's daughter but given the franchises dedication to making things a 'family' matter......I think Rey will end up being Ren's sister, the ultimate sibling battle to where eventually....at the end of the third film.....they join together to defeat and kill Snoke once and for all. After Luke has been killed somehow of course.
Interesting theory. The second paragraph has some plausibility. Not sure how I can buy the content of the first though. Let's walk this thru... with a 10 year age difference, if Rey is born after Han/Leia split, then Kylo/Ben was 10 (max) when he was sent away to train with Luke (because that's when Leia "lost you both")? How much time between that, and Kylo/Ben forming the Knights of Ren and turning on Luke - surely he must've been older than 10 years old? I always got the impression that the Han/Leia split was after Kylo/Ben led the mutiny - I suspect at least a mid-teenager. According to the above theory, that would put Rey at least 5 years old. If Han/Leia split when Kylo/Ben was 10 and first sent away, how did Han keep in touch with the situation surrounding him, and still be held in the dark about Rey?
Plausible I suppose, but I'm not buying it. You were also convinced that Kylo was Luke Skywalker, so I'm not sure we can take any of the theories you buy into seriously. :biggrin: :-*
I disagree to the extent of the entire STAR WARS story is based around one family....the Skywalkers. Rey is a Skywalker by blood. Having her be some random 'outsider' wouldn't be holding true to the entire theme of STAR WARS. I get that people want to 'complain' that TFA used too many nostalgia aspects and all....but making Rey NOT either Luke or Leia's kid would be a mistake IMO. She can't be just 'some' person strong with the force. She must be a Skywalker...which, I think there's about a 99% chance that she will be.
THAT, I agree with.
-
I disagree to the extent of the entire STAR WARS story is based around one family....the Skywalkers. Rey is a Skywalker by blood. Having her be some random 'outsider' wouldn't be holding true to the entire theme of STAR WARS. I get that people want to 'complain' that TFA used too many nostalgia aspects and all....but making Rey NOT either Luke or Leia's kid would be a mistake IMO. She can't be just 'some' person strong with the force. She must be a Skywalker...which, I think there's about a 99% chance that she will be.
Not necessarily. The first six films dealt with the Skywalker family because of the prophecy concerning Anakin. As far as we know, that was all fulfilled and there is nothing requiring that the story be about that one family moving forward. It could very well be that their purpose has been largely fulfilled and that we are now moving away from them. VII could merely have been the start of that transition that takes us into entirely non-Skywalker territory.
That said, I still think that Ep. 8 and 9 will still center around the Skywalker family and that Rey is likely one of them. :lol
-
I'm beginning to think more and more that Rey is Han and Leia's kid. I read an article that put Ren at 29 in the movie, Rey at 19. I don't think Han knew she was his daughter but I think Leia did. Han and Leia split up....Leia was either pregnant and didn't know or didn't tell Han. Either way, He's gone.....Ren goes nuts and joins the darkside so Leia 'hides' Rey.
The way Leia looked at Rey at the end she absolutely 'knew' who she was. That, along with the immediate connection she and Han had....you could see Han almost questioning 'who' this girl was, that she was familiar in a way. They finished each others sentences....the piloting characteristics. I think the film 'wants' us to believe it's Luke's daughter but given the franchises dedication to making things a 'family' matter......I think Rey will end up being Ren's sister, the ultimate sibling battle to where eventually....at the end of the third film.....they join together to defeat and kill Snoke once and for all. After Luke has been killed somehow of course.
Interesting theory. The second paragraph has some plausibility. Not sure how I can buy the content of the first though. Let's walk this thru... with a 10 year age difference, if Rey is born after Han/Leia split, then Kylo/Ben was 10 (max) when he was sent away to train with Luke (because that's when Leia "lost you both")? How much time between that, and Kylo/Ben forming the Knights of Ren and turning on Luke - surely he must've been older than 10 years old? I always got the impression that the Han/Leia split was after Kylo/Ben led the mutiny - I suspect at least a mid-teenager. According to the above theory, that would put Rey at least 5 years old. If Han/Leia split when Kylo/Ben was 10 and first sent away, how did Han keep in touch with the situation surrounding him, and still be held in the dark about Rey?
Plausible I suppose, but I'm not buying it. You were also convinced that Kylo was Luke Skywalker, so I'm not sure we can take any of the theories you buy into seriously. :biggrin: :-*
I disagree to the extent of the entire STAR WARS story is based around one family....the Skywalkers. Rey is a Skywalker by blood. Having her be some random 'outsider' wouldn't be holding true to the entire theme of STAR WARS. I get that people want to 'complain' that TFA used too many nostalgia aspects and all....but making Rey NOT either Luke or Leia's kid would be a mistake IMO. She can't be just 'some' person strong with the force. She must be a Skywalker...which, I think there's about a 99% chance that she will be.
THAT, I agree with.
I think the age difference and 'unawareness of one another' between Ren and Rey could be explained away with a clear order of events being detailed. And, I wasn't 'convinced' that Ren was Luke as much as I thought it'd be a cool idea for Luke to have went bad.
-
Wait...Luke isn't Kylo Ren? ???
-
Ruke is Lylo Ken.
-
Kylo Ren is Luke and Leia's son
-
THAT'S why his nose is so funky! It all makes sense...
On a more serious note...Whoa. Interesting stuff. (https://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-ending/) Reveals more tidbits about TFA script and details not in the movie.
-
Going to see it again in a D-Box seat in 2D today!! First time trying this!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBbEaEUqtnY
-
Just saw it a second time. I really tried to pay closer attention this time around to try to pick up cues and subtleties. I think the biggest thing that "Nags" at me is the meeting of Rey and Leia. To say there seems to be a bond and recognition between the two is an understatement. Neither seem to be "Appraising" the other. They seemingly "KNOW" each other. The prolonged hug they share....strangers don't do that. Which brings us to the crux we're all trying to figure out. Luke's? Or Leia's? I just can't past the idea of Han not knowing he has a daughter. By Han and Leia's dialogue it seems like the "Growing apart" between them happened AFTER Ren's fall. How old would Ren have to have been to challenge Luke and destroy what Luke was trying to do? 15 or so at the youngest? I could be wrong but the age difference between Ren and Rey can't be too much. So again, how would Han NOT know?
For a brief moment I was thinking Rey is Luke's daughter and Luke had Leia hide her away. That would explain the familiarity between Leia and Rey if Leia had taken her to Jakku. Big problem with that theory is... why would Leia leave her with a scum bag like Unkar Plutt? Maybe Leia took her part of the way, then something happened?
Also! I thought I imagined it the first time but I didn't, there WAS a female stormtrooper that Ren was talking too when they were trying to locate Rey.
-
Luke's? Or Leia's?
Or both?
-
Luke's? Or Leia's?
Or both?
:omg:........ :lol
-
I also saw it a second time today! The screening had some audio problems, but that didn't affect the experience much.
I still love it as much as i did the first time! Daisy Ridley is about a hundred times more relatable as a protagonist, than Hayden Christensen!
There are parallels with A New Hope, but i think that is a smart move considering that this movie had to essentially reboot the franchise. With a safe start for the trilogy and everyone onboard, Rian Johnson can go crazy with Episode 8.
After the second viewing, i'm even more convinced that Rey is Luke's daughter. The hints are there, all over this movie.
-
I think the line "this lightsaber was Luke's and his father's before him, and now it calls to you" is the biggest clue in the movie.
-
Agreed. There's even more evidence piled up on that but that's a huge one.
I'll truly be flabbergasted if she's not at least related to him in some way.
-
One of the bigger cues for me was Han's facial expression and reaction to when they arrived on Takodana when Rey said "I didn't think there was so much green in the whole galaxy". It almost looks like some sense of guilt on his part.
Not to mention the part when Maz questions Han "Who's the girl?" as if she somehow knows that he has an answer beyond just "some chick who stole back my ship".
Also, Han quickly offering her a job aboard the Falcon, despite not supposedly knowing her for long. He seemed almost intent on keeping her close to him.
There's most definitely a lot of cues to suggest that she's in some way related to Luke (or Han even) and if that's the case, I think they did a pretty good job in this movie in giving us those hints without being so overt about it (with the slight exception being the "lightsaber calling to her" bit).
-
One thing I didn't think about before, if Han knows about Rey and that she is Luke's daughter, maybe that's part of the reason why he offers her a job on the Falcon. Because really, Han Solo/Chewie has been rockin' it for decades just by themselves, and bringing someone else in would be slightly contradictory to Han's character (I can do this myself, I don't need help), but could be explained if he felt guilt and knew about Rey.
-
something about the ending seemed so familiar to me, and now I know why....
(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/jeremiah_johnson_nodding.gif)
-
One thing I didn't think about before, if Han knows about Rey and that she is Luke's daughter, maybe that's part of the reason why he offers her a job on the Falcon. Because really, Han Solo/Chewie has been rockin' it for decades just by themselves, and bringing someone else in would be slightly contradictory to Han's character (I can do this myself, I don't need help), but could be explained if he felt guilt and knew about Rey.
I thought of that too, him offering a job and softening up too her. After really watching those scenes the 2nd time I saw a couple things. When he first sees her in the hold for the first time, through the whole time till they get plantside, he shows absolutely no sign of recognizing her. He genuinely seems to like her more and softens to her as she exhibits her piloting/Mech skills, and love for the Falcon.
-
So how awesome would it be if Captain Phasma was actually Mara Jade and was the mother of Rey, former lover of Luke? Can a fan boy just dream?
-
So how awesome would it be if Captain Phasma was actually Mara Jade and was the mother of Rey, former lover of Luke? Can a fan boy just dream?
Personally I wouldn't like it because we don't need to shrink the universe more than we're already doing. I would still think that IF Rey is the daughter of Luke, they would tie his wife/Rey's mother into the reason why Luke left. I wouldn't be surprised if Kylo Ren killed her, and that's part of why Luke felt responsible and left, knowing that revenge would lead to the dark side.
-
I wouldn't be surprised if Kylo Ren killed her, and that's part of why Luke felt responsible and left, knowing that revenge would lead to the dark side.
Interesting..... never thought of that factor/angle. Seems plausible that Rey's mother/Lukes wife, was killed by Ren's betrayal. Something that traumatic could affect Luke so dramatically that he'd lose his drive.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNAy7yCMyBw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNAy7yCMyBw)
I don't even.
I mean, sure some points have merit, but he presents stuff that I didn't even feel was of any real importance as being the things that makes it super bad.
He can dislike it all he wants, I just disagree with what he says with almost every atom in my body.
-
I don't know, even if he brings up some interesting points, as soon as I hear "Why TFA is worse than the prequels" I'm done and I switch off.
-
Is it just another angry EU fan?
-
I don't know, even if he brings up some interesting points, as soon as I hear "Why TFA is worse than the prequels" I'm done and I switch off.
:iagree:
I got about 4 seconds into the link before closing it.
-
Ya...I got about halfway through it, but I'm actually growing bored with the invented "plot holes" people are making up. He's basically reading off the list of "40 unforgivable plot holes in TFA" that's been circulating. I read through that list once, and I started to address them one by one before I got to #12, realized that the creator of the article had obviously never seen the movie and was just trolling, and so I got bored and just walked away. But now it seems like some people who just barely glanced at the film are starting to feed on the invented plot holes just for the sake of being hipsters.
I was among the people who defended the prequels when they were new...but I was not (nor did I know anyone who was) saying that the prequels were better...or exceeded my expectations. I heard the majority of people say straight away that there were some real problems. I was a defender in the sense of saying that they had the same problems that the OT had (like for instance, some issues with bad dialog), but we're not 10yrs old anymore. But I was wrong. The prequels are wooden, horribly scripted, horribly directed, and just mostly really bad storytelling. It focused all on world building and gave us completely 2-dimensional characters that were impossible to relate to.
TFA does borrow the framework from the OT, but the characters themselves are so well written and so multi-layered, that I honestly wouldn't care if they had borrowed even more "window dressing" than they already did. The characters themselves are strong enough to survive the somewhat derivative story line. And the dialog and character interaction is easily the best of all 7 films.
Sorry, but this guy is inventing stuff...or at least, listening to people who are inventing stuff.
-
I think the problem today is that people are more cynical and are looking for reasons to hate on something instead of just taking it at face value. If you dig deep enough you can poke holes in just about anything. The original trilogy are not perfect, and you can find plot holes in them as well, but they were made in a time when we viewed films differently, and many of us also watched them when we were kids, so we couldn't really analyze them in that way. But I see a lot of people online criticize TFA for having similar plotholes that ANH had, it's just easier to overlook those.
Overall though, I think no matter how good or how original this film would have been, there would still be a group of people leading the "TFA is the worst SW film" crusade, because some people work that way. A guy on my Facebook has been saying for 2 years that TFA would suck and that it would be the worst SW-film simply because Disney bought the rights, and he went on to talk about how they would make it family-friendly (because the old movies weren't family friendly right?) and surprise surprise, he posted after seeing the movie how bad it was. Some people are just lost causes, they decide to go in negatively from the start, and once you do that, you will find those problems you are looking for.
-
George Lucas doesn't like The Force Awakens.
Thank fuck.
-
George Lucas doesn't like The Force Awakens.
Thank fuck.
He does like it, though.
-
Yeah, he already gave it his stamp of approval. He's made some comments about it being best that he's not involved as his approach is very different to the approach that they are taking now, but never that he disliked the film.
-
He may have done at first ? I've read sports since then that it's too retro or whatever.
He said something like " It's a movie that Star Wars fans will like ". Something he can't say about at least the last 3 - and depending on who you ask - the last 4.
I found it pretty amusing that he sold Lucasfilm and then wanted control of the sequels anyway :D :D
-
Imagine if this was in an alternate reality, where we had the original star wars. The movie would be called: The Adventure Of The Starkiller episode 7 - The Bogan Awakens :rollin no joke!
-
I don't care what Lucas likes or dislikes. He's not the market.
-
I don't care what Lucas likes or dislikes. He's not the market.
This. Especially considering him being proud over the prequels, it's hard to trust his judgement.
-
I don't care what Lucas likes or dislikes. He's not the market.
This. Especially considering him being proud over the prequels, it's hard to trust his judgement.
TBH, I'd be proud of the prequels. TPM I can take or leave, but I think AotC and RotS are genuinely really good in my eyes. RotS especially is probably nearly level with the OT. Some of the acting across the films is questionable, but the overall plot is well done as well as the visuals and action (although TPM is patchy with this). They're obviously not perfect, but neither are the OT films or TFA. Also, what's with the George Lucas hate? If it wasn't for him, Star Wars wouldn't exist.
-
There's more to be proud of with TPM than AotC IMO. AotC is not only a worse film, but with TPM you at least had the visual effects which were revolutionary for its time. Now those films look like cartoons because they relied way too much on CGI, and CGI gets dated so fast. But at the time it was great effects. AotC was kinda more of the same, but only worse and had the worst romantic subplot in history. RotS was kinda more of the same again, but at least has some redeemable parts.
-
Saying Revenge Of the Sith is the best prequel is like saying " I ate three turd pizzas but the third one was the best as it had fewer turds on it "...
-
It's the best by default because it has a few good things (Anakin turning) but I would still say it's fairly mediocre as a movie, it's just that RotS is maybe a 5/10 whereas TPM and AotC are closer to 2/10. RotS still suffers from a lot of the same problem the other prequels have. The final lightsaber duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan is my least favorite duel in the whole franchise because it goes on for 4 hours when it could have been a great 5 minute fight. General Grievous is also such a typical prequel-character. Why does he need 4 lightsabers? He goes out after taking a blaster hit in the chest, after another long fight which feels kinda pointless after how easy it's resolved.
-
Saying Revenge Of the Sith is the best prequel is like saying " I ate three turd pizzas but the third one was the best as it had fewer turds on it "...
-
...and because of the zero character development in the first two, it makes those "relationships" falling apart completely pointless in RotS. I never saw Anakin and Obi-Wan become friends, so there was no basis for their falling out. There was no romantic basis between Anakin and Padme, so when she said he was breaking her heart, it was completely meaningless. These characters had these relationships because the movie told us they did. The storyteller did not develop those relationships so that we felt them as an audience. Truly terrible storytelling. Not emotionally engaging in the least.
-
I don't hate the prequels, but I do think they make the original trilogy less enjoyable in some ways, so I don't own them and haven't really watched them in years. I did make an exception and saw ROTS leading up to The Force Awakens, and while I enjoyed it, I don't see myself watching it again anytime soon.
-
I never saw Anakin and Obi-Wan become friends, so there was no basis for their falling out. There was no romantic basis between Anakin and Padme, so when she said he was breaking her heart, it was completely meaningless.
This was all established in AotC.
There's more to be proud of with TPM than AotC IMO. AotC is not only a worse film, but with TPM you at least had the visual effects which were revolutionary for its time. Now those films look like cartoons because they relied way too much on CGI, and CGI gets dated so fast. But at the time it was great effects. AotC was kinda more of the same, but only worse and had the worst romantic subplot in history. RotS was kinda more of the same again, but at least has some redeemable parts.
The CGI looks really good in AotC and RotS to me. TPM looks a bit shoddy sometimes with the some of the alien species and the battle droids in the fields looking quite fake. IMO the next two improved on this a lot.
-
I never saw Anakin and Obi-Wan become friends, so there was no basis for their falling out. There was no romantic basis between Anakin and Padme, so when she said he was breaking her heart, it was completely meaningless.
This was all established in AotC.
If by "established" you mean "attempted", then yes, you're correct.
-
Went to my third showing with the wife on Saturday. I'm getting more and more convinced that Rey is not Luke's daughter but was just a very talented student. I'm guessing that Kylo Ren knew a she escaped which would account for him seeming to know her. Also, Snoke has to be Plagius. I never really focused on his wicked scar on his head. Looks like a deadly injury.
Also, this is now my favorite Star Wars movie. Just keeps getting better and better with each showing.
-
Unfortunately many of the things that people complain about in the prequels are still very much present in the OT. Generally unimpressive script? Check. Underwhelming acting jobs from the leads (Hayden and Mark)? Check, though I suspect most will argue father was much better than son, in that regard. And while I agree that the basis for the Anakin-Padme love is largely unfounded from the audience's point of view, I could also make a similar argument about Han Solo-Leia.
Look, I'm not saying that the Prequels are better than the OT; I prefer the OT. It just bothers me a bit when I see people shit on the prequels time and time again for many of the same things that plagued the OT. Because frankly, as far as the quality of story telling goes, I don't think the OT is that much better than the prequels. From where I'm sitting, both of them (OT much moreso than PT, for obvious reasons) excel at world building, but not necessarily story telling.
Which is why TFA might be my favorite of them all. Or at least, up there with Episode V. I saw it for the first time this past week, after rewatching the OT for the umpteenth time, and had to go back the following night for more details. Really well done, on so many levels. I'm not going to scroll through all eleven pages that I've missed, but I'll assume that I'm agreeing with people when I say that the new characters are intriguing, that Kylo Ren in particular is a fantastic villain struggling with his villainhood, that I'm looking forward to seeing most of the OT characters phased out even more, that Rey seems likely to be the daughter of Luke (but maybe a little too likely), that light saber duels in a snowy forest are fantastic, and that I have high expectations for Ep. 8 now that the more derivative foundation has been set.
-
I never saw Anakin and Obi-Wan become friends, so there was no basis for their falling out. There was no romantic basis between Anakin and Padme, so when she said he was breaking her heart, it was completely meaningless.
This was all established in AotC.
If by "established" you mean "attempted", then yes, you're correct.
Yes. That's it exactly. We were more told this through exposition than allowed to watch it develop for ourselves. And what was played out was not the least bit emotionally engaging to the vast majority of the audience. Even supposed romantic scenes played off more creepy than romantic. No basis at all to believe they loved each other. It was terrible.
Han and Leia's relationship was more electric. It all played out more like foreplay. And the scene where they kiss on the Falcon is much more based in the emotional interplay between the two characters ever since they first met. And it was acted extremely well. Quite steamy actually.
-
Unfortunately many of the things that people complain about in the prequels are still very much present in the OT. Generally unimpressive script? Check. Underwhelming acting jobs from the leads (Hayden and Mark)? Check, though I suspect most will argue father was much better than son, in that regard. And while I agree that the basis for the Anakin-Padme love is largely unfounded from the audience's point of view, I could also make a similar argument about Han Solo-Leia.
To be fair, it also wasn't a major plot that was supposed to drive an entire trilogy either. It didn't need to be as developed as the Anakin / Padme one was supposed to be. It was something that played out naturally in the dynamic between the characters, not something that was set up from the start to develop over 3 movies to be the driving force behind major turning points in the story. If you can't manage the most basic believability for a critical relationship in 6-7 hours of film, you've done something very wrong.
Sure, the OT isn't perfect, but the big difference is that the movies succeeded as films despite their shortcomings (to the point that most people don't notice or care about them), rather than failing miserably directly because of them.
-
Sure, the OT isn't perfect, but the big difference is that the movies succeeded as films despite their shortcomings (to the point that most people don't notice or care about them), rather than failing miserably because of them.
This......nailed it.
-
I feel like the big difference between the OT and the PT is that in the OT we get to experience the journey rather than being told about it. Compare the friendship between Luke and Han, vs Anakin and Obi-Wan. We get to feel and experience Luke and Han's friendship growing. Initially they don't really like each other, but through events in the film they develop a great friendship. With Anakin and Obi-Wan they skip pretty much all the interesting stuff, and we get a 1 minute dialogue in the elevator to Padme in AotC. And it's not really just the friendship. There's a lot of dialogue scenes in the PT describing how characters feel or what they think about each other, but few scenes were we get to experience it.
-
I like the Adam Driver does his own voice.
Even Darth Maul wasn't even voiced by Ray Parks.
-
Initially they don't really like each other, but through events in the film they develop a great friendship.
Sounds familiar to when Anakin meets Padme again in AotC.
To stay on topic with some thoughts, TFA is awesome but the reveal of Luke seems a bit underwhelming. Chewbacca seems to be a more developed character in the film though, which is nice.
-
To stay on topic with some thoughts, TFA is awesome but the reveal of Luke seems a bit underwhelming.
That scene gets more awesome every time I see it.
Sounds familiar to when Anakin meets Padme again in AotC.
The big difference there is that Anakin is a creepy bastard that by any logic should not be able to make anyone fall in love with him. Neither Han nor Luke is a creepy bastard.
-
^There you go^
-
To stay on topic with some thoughts, TFA is awesome but the reveal of Luke seems a bit underwhelming.
That scene gets more awesome every time I see it.
One of my buddies said that Abrams probably filmed that scene when they actually found Mark Hamill to talk about TFA and offer him the role..... :lol
-
To stay on topic with some thoughts, TFA is awesome but the reveal of Luke seems a bit underwhelming.
That scene gets more awesome every time I see it.
One of my buddies said that Abrams probably filmed that scene when they actually found Mark Hamill to talk about TFA and offer him the role..... :lol
:rollin
Honestly, even though we didn't really get any Luke in this film, the inclusion of the original actors really made the movie for me. A legit aged Leia/Han/Luke to fit the storyline was awesome.
-
I love the final scene and I think the reveal, and how we don't hear Luke say anything is great. If I have a minor gripe I would say that the very last helicopter shot felt a bit unnecessary. IMO they could have added a shot after Rey reaches out the lightsaber where Luke reaches out his hand and grabbing it, then cut to credits.
-
I'm calling it now--Ep. VIII begins right at that same scene, and what happens next is: Luke moves in closer to give her a hug, and she goes Kylo on him and kills him with his sabre, and then says, "Sorry, dad. Consider the torch passed." Then she and Kylo battle it out over the next two films to decide who will be the galaxy's ultimate Sith apprentice.
-
I love the final scene and I think the reveal, and how we don't hear Luke say anything is great. If I have a minor gripe I would say that the very last helicopter shot felt a bit unnecessary. IMO they could have added a shot after Rey reaches out the lightsaber where Luke reaches out his hand and grabbing it, then cut to credits.
Agreed. That scene was cool.....I think they must have just figured "Hey, we're here on a cool location.....lets get a huge shot to end it"
I did read that they won't be able to use that actual location much and that they've had to build a set to recreate that location because of the indigenous bird population being so large and hostile....plus the weather rarely cooperates and getting gear to and from the location and getting it working correctly was a nightmare.
Honestly, even though we didn't really get any Luke in this film, the inclusion of the original actors really made the movie for me. A legit aged Leia/Han/Luke to fit the storyline was awesome.
I thought Harrison Ford was fantastic. He didn't miss a beat with portraying Han....and it was the perfect character IMO to share the screentime with the new characters.
-
I'm calling it now--Ep. VIII begins right at that same scene, and what happens next is: Luke moves in closer to give her a hug, and she goes Kylo on him and kills him with his sabre, and then says, "Sorry, dad. Consider the torch passed." Then she and Kylo battle it out over the next two films to decide who will be the galaxy's ultimate Sith apprentice.
THAT would be jaw dropping.
-
:lol
A small part of me would love the shit out of that.
-
There's another aged star in this movie, but he's behind the cameras. John Williams absolutely shines in this movie. Rey's theme is one of the best themes in all of the Star Wars movies in my opinion. When the cavalry arrived just in time in Takodana, John Williams music swelled to the perfect emotional peak. He's the man!
-
Yeah, that's one guy who never dropped the ball throughout this whole series. I do wish there would've been some choir on this soundtrack though. It doesn't really need it, I just think choirs are epic.
-
There's another aged star in this movie, but he's behind the cameras. John Williams absolutely shines in this movie. Rey's theme is one of the best themes in all of the Star Wars movies in my opinion. When the cavalry arrived just in time in Takodana, John Williams music swelled to the perfect emotional peak. He's the man!
The vast majority of discussion I've seen about the soundtrack was complaints about the score not being memorable, but I thought it was good. I think maybe people are just used to being a lot more familiar with the Star Wars music already and are judging it unfairly.
-
Yeah it's a little unfair when we've had 30-40 years for the original music to embed itself in our collective consciousness, so comments like "it's not memorable" are kinda stupid at this stage.
-
I bet the vast majority of people who have seen the movie could not hum a bar of any other theme other than the main theme if they were asked right now. The score just felt very subdued.
-
I liked Kylo Ren's theme. It stood out for me.
-
It's not necessarily a bad thing when the score doesn't click right away, I found it more and more enjoyable for every time I saw the film. Plus, Star Wars as a whole has some of the most memorable music in movie history (the opening theme, the imperial theme for example) and reaching up to that level is gonna be near impossible.
-
I liked Kylo Ren's theme. It stood out for me.
Agreed, his theme is really cool.
-
The two best themes were Rey's and the (I'm assuming) love theme between Rey and Finn.
-
I think that kiss on the cheek permanently sealed Finn in the friend zone. I don't know if they will give Rey a love interest, but if anything I'd say Poe Dameron is more likely. In the book version of TFA, there is a brief scene where they meet and there are some sparks.
-
I'd be disapponted if Rey and Finn developed a romance.
-
I took it as the exact opposite. I think their romance is already developed. Rey absolutely, to me at least, didn't seem like a chick that has opened up to many men in the past and certainly wasn't developed to be as such in this part of her life and that was extremely apparent. She opened up to him in the latter portion of the movie that seemed an impossibility in the earlier portions. I think it's a complete given at this point but maybe Zant is right. I kind of hope you are but I really think it's said and done with that kiss, despite the partings words of 'my friend'. I mean, she's still extremely independent, tom-boyish, a bit abrasive and awesomely indifferent to the usual girly tropes, and along with that, the romantic aspects of them; but that doesn't mean she doesn't have feelings for him. We started with her being completely surprised and off-put with him taking her hand simply to run away from apparent death, now she's kissing his forehead...it's progress. :lol
-
It really felt more like a friendship. If it had been romantic I think Finn would have tried to kiss her before he stormed out of Maz Kanata's place. Instead it was more of a "take care" like you would tell a close friend. After all, this is really the first person he comes across that looks at him in a different way than the storm troopers he has been raised with.
-
Just saw it for the fourth time heh and yep, still awesome.
-
I hate to be "that guy" but remember that Finn is black, Rey is white, and this is a Disney property. I personally have no problem with it, and it's even pretty awesome that it needs to be pointed out, but I just don't see it happening. Not in a flick that has anything to do with Disney.
-
Jeez, I hope you're wrong Orbert. I really, really do.
-
I'd like to think that we've come that far, but I honestly think that there's still a large enough segment of the population that would have trouble with it, or more accurately, that Disney thinks that there is a large enough segment, and that they'll bitch, and it will all be very ugly. Disney could lead the way by boldly breaking down racial barriers in one of the most anticipated (and most watched) movies of the decade, and if they can do it, anyone can. But I just don't think they will.
-
I have exactly zero problem with the jungle fever lovin', but I'm against Rey and Finn getting together simply because it's so unnecessary and obvious and Hollywood to force that in there (no pun intended) between the lead characters. I prefer the idea of Finn and Rey being an awesome team without any sexual tension. That said, if they did do that, it wouldn't bother me at all.
But I think the plan is for Rey and Poe anyway. Maybe Finn can hook in with Phasma. Everybody needs some love.
-
I have exactly zero problem with the jungle fever lovin', but I'm against Rey and Finn getting together simply because it's so unnecessary and obvious and Hollywood to force that in there (no pun intended) between the lead characters. I prefer the idea of Finn and Rey being an awesome team without any sexual tension.
Yeah, all of this.
-
Remember how much outcry there has been about Finn being a black lead in a Star Wars film? I think it would be 10 times worse if Finn and Rey got together in the end, and a lot of people would say it's more about sending a political message than making a film. Personally I don't care about mixed relationships, but I don't think the majority is with me, and I think a lot of people still live in the stone age mentally and have certain views on those kind of topics. At least to me, I hope we will be talking about this trilogy 10 years from now because of how good it was, and not political debates about a black guy getting together with a white girl.
-
Does anyone else think that Kylo Ren took off his mask too soon? I think it would have been much more powerful if he hadn't removed it when Rey asked him to, but only when he met his father on the bridge. All along we think of him as some evil dude who wears a mask because he has to like Vader, but he turns out to just be a normal looking young adult.
-
I'd be disapponted if Rey and Finn developed a romance.
It's gonna be Finn and Poe :zydar:
-
Remember how much outcry there has been about Finn being a black lead in a Star Wars film? I think it would be 10 times worse if Finn and Rey got together in the end, and a lot of people would say it's more about sending a political message than making a film. Personally I don't care about mixed relationships, but I don't think the majority is with me, and I think a lot of people still live in the stone age mentally and have certain views on those kind of topics. At least to me, I hope we will be talking about this trilogy 10 years from now because of how good it was, and not political debates about a black guy getting together with a white girl.
Did people have a problem with Finn being black? I remember a lot of discussion about the whole stormtrooper / clone issue, but I luckily didn't see anything just about race. I do stick to more civilized sites as far as movie discussion goes though.
-
Does anyone else think that Kylo Ren took off his mask too soon? I think it would have been much more powerful if he hadn't removed it when Rey asked him to, but only when he met his father on the bridge. All along we think of him as some evil dude who wears a mask because he has to like Vader, but he turns out to just be a normal looking young adult.
When this happened, one lady in the sold out theater laughed sooooo loud that it caused the rest of the theater to laugh. That scene was almost comical in a sense of how normal looking he was. Totally did not expect him to take his mask off at all, let alone be a normal young adult.
-
I love that scene. I'm excited every time in the theater to see how the audience will react to it. Also, Adan Driver is awesome.
It's definetely unexpected, but in my opinion that's one reason it's so great. And after the first time I saw I also thought it was a bit soon to take the mask off, but I have completely changed my mind after my additional viewings. That scene is actually quite far into the movie.
-
I think there should have been a scene with Han and Kylo Ren before the final confrontation. Maybe before they stormed off with Rey from Maz Kanata's place. Even though you could tell he was having problems with it, we all knew when Han went out on that bridge that it wouldn't end well. But I think by adding one more scene of them talking before, it would have been more of a struggle and the outcome would have been more uncertain. Just a minor nitpick though.
The bigger thing I would have changed would have been to make Phasma fight Finn instead of that normal storm trooper. Would have given her more of a character.
-
I think it would've been worse if he took of the mask later, like when he meets Han on the bridge. We'd have thought through the whole movie that he needed the mask, then when he takes it off it would be "What? He doesn't even need the damned thing?" That would be an arguably comical moment which would be mistaken for "the big reveal" and the shit would never stop. Instead, we get the WTF moment out of the way earlier, and it's just one more thing that emphasizes what a misguided, messed-up dude he is.
That reminds me, there's a scene early in the flick that I loved, when Ren and Poe meet, and Poe gives him some shit about not being able to understand him because of the mask. I thought that was great that someone was calling him out on it. Obviously none of the storm troopers or anyone else in The First Order were gonna do that, except maybe Hux. Actually, Hux would be the perfect guy to do that, too.
-
I'd like to think that we've come that far, but I honestly think that there's still a large enough segment of the population that would have trouble with it, or more accurately, that Disney thinks that there is a large enough segment, and that they'll bitch, and it will all be very ugly. Disney could lead the way by boldly breaking down racial barriers in one of the most anticipated (and most watched) movies of the decade, and if they can do it, anyone can. But I just don't think they will.
For the record, The Princess and the Frog show an interracial couple (although it's not as obvious since he spends most of the movie as a frog), and, technically, so does Pocahontas. And, apparently, there are lots of interracial relationships on Disney Channel shows. At least, according to racists bitching on the internet.
-
I'd like to think that we've come that far, but I honestly think that there's still a large enough segment of the population that would have trouble with it, or more accurately, that Disney thinks that there is a large enough segment, and that they'll bitch, and it will all be very ugly. Disney could lead the way by boldly breaking down racial barriers in one of the most anticipated (and most watched) movies of the decade, and if they can do it, anyone can. But I just don't think they will.
For the record, The Princess and the Frog show an interracial couple (although it's not as obvious since he spends most of the movie as a frog), and, technically, so does Pocahontas. And, apparently, there are lots of interracial relationships on Disney Channel shows. At least, according to racists bitching on the internet.
Yeah, I'm honestly not sure where the sentiment that they might be against it comes from. Maybe a different story if we were talking 50 years ago. But in recent decades, it seems to me that Disney has been going out of their way to show that they are progressive.
-
Agreed, I don't understand where this is coming from either.
-
Just coming from my own experience, I guess. I've never seen The Princess and the Frog or Pocahontas, although I do understand that Pocahontas includes some completely bullshit love story between Pocahontas and Jonathan Smith. I only know about that, though, because of all the bitching on the Internet. Were there actual love/sex scenes involving them? Actually, don't answer that; I'm pretty sure I don't want to know. I don't watch the Disney Channel, either. My kids are both too old for that, which I consider a good thing.
So hey, maybe we'll get some genuine interracial lovin' in a live-action Disney flick. With all the pressure on them right now to make sure they don't screw up the new Star Wars films, I would assume that they'll play it safe, as safely as possible, but I could be wrong.
-
To be fair, if Rey becomes a Jedi (which we all expect to happen), love might not necessarily be a thing either. Maybe she will have a fling with someone along the way, but I think the focus will be on her growing as a character and becoming that Jedi who will save the galaxy from the First Order rather than her finding a man she can cook for.
-
If she does become a Jedi, I think her man should cook for her.
-
Agreed, I don't understand where this is coming from either.
From Jimmy extrapolating a small number of redneck bigots online into a wider problem that doesn't really exist. :P
-
If she does become a Jedi, I think her man should cook for her.
Her man would have no choice but cook for her.
-
*Rey waves hand* "These aren't the recipes you're looking for."
-
If she does become a Jedi, I think her man should cook for her.
Her man would have no choice but cook for her.
He would be forced to.
-
Just a frying pan flying across the room.
-
Quick rant here... my friend just got his thong in a wad (someone else complained about it, though not as whiny, and not to rag on whoever did that, opinions and assholes blah blah blah) about people being 'overpowered'... Okay so...where the fuck was it stated that Obi/Yoda/whoever-else-you-wanna-bring-up was the end-all, never-to-be-surpassed Super Saiyan omniscient clusterfuck god of The Force? I mean, that is such a boring, shitty way to look at it that subsequently makes ZERO sense. So basically there's no chance for evolution, no use in training, no such thing as natural-born talent or progression? It's just..."Okay Obi and Yoda couldn't do this, so these guys shouldn't be able to". In what mentally deficient universe does that make sense? Because it isn't this one. There being no explanation for it in TFA would be a perfectly fine thing to get your panties in a wad over, sure; even then, in a movie like this where they attempted to explain it and the fans all but had a fucking hernia over it...it's best to say "they have natural talent and/or mentally train" and be done with it. But to say it's impossible and/or ludicrous "because a character in the past couldn't do it and/or couldn't do it as well" is so dumbfuckish that it's making me angry. Obviously. It's just a baseless, illogical thought that beaks before it even finishes. Normally I'd just outwit my poor friend but I've seen other people on different forums bring this same thing up and it makes less and less sense every time I read it. Which is funny because it makes no sense at all to begin with.
Kdone. People are stupid. Opinions. That's my opinion on your onion smelling opinion, FRANK. SHUT YOUR COCK CAVE, FRANK! (he's really mad because he can see me typing this but he's all scrawny and weak so he can't stop me because I'm like Kylo Ren and I've just got natural born strength and am stronger than people that have come before me but there's no explanation for it so it's fucking with his worldview waaaaaaaaah wah wah wah)
-
rant
I mostly agree in the general sense. But I am somewhat sympathetic to the point your friend makes in this context, and will try to briefly explain why: Yoda and Obi Wan were considered to be very strong in the force and trained, under well-trained masters, for a LONG TIME. So it kinda DOES seem a bit hokey for someone to come along and, with zero training and experience, be able to instantly do things that far exceed what those guys could do.
-
See, that there is a perfectly logical thought though. The logistics being "it isn't explained" and "why can they do this?". But the comments of "they shouldn't be able to" are what is making my brain hurt. An explanation would mostly remedy that aside from people simply not wanting to accept change/picking favorites/etc (unless it's a shoddy explanation) and I too am sympathetic to that very specific question of 'why'. I am not, however, sympathetic at all to the idea that it should be impossible.
For instance, plenty of people have trained at any number of jobs, talent-specific sports or even just weird physical activities like being able to balance on one foot and spin plates or whatever, whatever it is. Then here comes Mr. Bugaboo and he does it the first try without trying. These things happen in real life, I just can't see why it's suddenly a huge debacle in a fictional universe with plenty of other unexplained happenings. This isn't to say "it's a fictional universe so take everything at face value", not at all; but it's one thing that is far from being just outrageously inexplicable.
That said, I'd definitely love for them to expand upon that aspect and I think they will (again, whether it will be an acceptable explanation is a longer shot...I personally think it'll be a bit of a cop-out of 'it's genetics/heritage'). Impossible though? Psh. Yoda and Obi are old hat and people need to get over it. Their mentality, morals and wisdom are what is truly special and important, the way that they think... The Force? Man, any old villain can be a powered up mofo with natural talent that is 'just that good' without needing to be trained by a master jedi. I'm really struggling to see how that's a big deal when it literally happens in our own world all the time...y'know...without all the cool stuff. :sadpanda: :millahhhh
-
I'll spin this the other way. Some study every night for their Calculus course and gets a B while others never study and get an A. Sometimes it comes natural for others.
-
Oooooooooooooooooooh, so you mean it's like how I am just naturally sexy without even trying, while the rest of you, try as you might, don't quite measure up to my level of sexy? Okay, yeah, it makes a lot more sense when we put it in real life terms like that.
Okay, I'm good now. Carry on.
-
Well , Duh?!
-
Exactly, BOSK, DAMN YOUUUU *Smashes really expensive console controls to a really expensive ship that Frank will have to fix later* RARARAR GRANPAAAAAAAA!!!!!
-
*Smashes really expensive console controls to a really expensive ship that Frank will have to fix later*
Adama?
-
(https://www.nusseymagazine.com/phpBB3Next/images/smilies/smiley_emoticons_box.gif)
-
Don't.
It's a trap.
-
I'm thinking it's this conversation but DAAAAMMMIT BOOOOOSK!!! :lol
-
I'll just be like those Storm Troopers that were about to walk in on the scene I described and just...walk...away. :lol
I really loved the humor in this movie a lot. Minimal but when done was funny and quick. I don't get why people didn't like the trash compactor joke from Han, I loved that as well. It wasn't out of character or random, it was in context to the scene and what they were doing, and was also in relation to the people (at least, in terms of alliances and faction) that more or less caused it to happen to him (indirectly by capturing Leia...a stretch, but still the same faction despite the name change).
-
Don't.
It's a trap.
:itsatrap:
-
I liked the trash compactor line too. Han found himself in circumstances oddly similar to some he'd been in before, and it's reasonable to think that his mind went there. Trash compactor. So he said it, even if only to be a smartass, because that's perfectly in character for him. And it was funny. No problem here.
As for Ren doing things that Yoda never could and therefore people can't deal with it, people need to deal with it. Sure, midichlorians aren't a popular topic among hardcore fans, but they are canon, and Anakin's midichlorian count was off the charts, "higher even than Master Yoda's". So it makes sense that his descendants could inherit the same natural abilities. As others have pointed out, some train for years and never reach the higher levels, while others just have it naturally. That's life.
-
If she does become a Jedi, I think her man should cook for her.
Her man would have no choice but cook for her.
He would be forced to.
DID NO ONE ELSE CATCH THIS? :rollin
-
I did.
-
I did.
We all did.
-
UR ALL JUS JEALOUSE
-
Me during Han scene:
"Oh, he's going to kill Han, I know it. I see this coming. Yep, there he goes. Well, that was predictable. Now he's falling and it's like Aeris and Gandalf at the same time. This movie is so duBAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! :'("
Also I thought for about half the movie that Kylo Ren was going to be Luke.
Great movie.
-
Me during Han scene:
Now he's falling and it's like Aeris and Gandalf at the same time.
Han Solo was definitely an Ancient :neverusethis:
-
:blush :blush
I'm really embarrassed now. i saw a link to a website on twitter : " Why Force Awakens is actually dreadful ".
I didn't realise it was dreadful. :blush :blush I enjoyed it both times I saw it. Damn I feel so stupid.
But For SRS : This will be the site trolls link to in order to "prove" the film "SUCKS LOL"
-
Also I thought for about half the movie that Kylo Ren was going to be Luke.
I actually suspected this too for while. Glad it wasn't so.
But For SRS : This will be the site trolls link to in order to "prove" the film "SUCKS LOL"
Videos like that are flooding youtube at the moment. It frustrates me.
-
::) when something is popular - people are falling over each other to "prove" it's shit.
And I never for one second thought Kylo Ren was Luke. That was just stupid imo. Adam Driver is well over 6ft and skinny and Mark Hamill is pretty stocky and short.
-
And I never for one second thought Kylo Ren was Luke. That was just stupid imo. Adam Driver is well over 6ft and skinny and Mark Hamill is pretty stocky and short.
Even the Jedi have heard of Stiletto's and corsets...
-
I remember when the initial teaser came out over a year ago...
" Really bad CGI on Kylo Ren's invisible middle section..."
" Um yeah that's a belt. "
:lol
-
Yeah that was really funny.
-
I remember when the initial teaser came out over a year ago...
" Really bad CGI on Kylo Ren's invisible middle section..."
" Um yeah that's a belt. "
:lol
Oh my god. That happened. :rollin
-
Wow I forgot about that. :lol That was pretty great.
-
And I never for one second thought Kylo Ren was Luke. That was just stupid imo. Adam Driver is well over 6ft and skinny and Mark Hamill is pretty stocky and short.
I have no clue who Adam Driver is, and I was watching a movie, not measuring people with a measuring stick.
-
Even storywise though? As soon as Kylo Ren is introduced his main motivation is that he wants the map to Luke Skywalker and he even kills some people at the start because he wants it.
-
Even storywise though? As soon as Kylo Ren is introduced his main motivation is that he wants the map to Luke Skywalker and he even kills some people at the start because he wants it.
And calls Vader his Grandfather.
-
To be fair, he was just talking to a roasted mask. Maybe he got confused.
-
I have to admit something: I was perplexed for about five minutes when Kylo called Vader grandfather. I was all, 'whoa, how!?' :lol Forgot alllll about poor Leia...
-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Vader-mask scene shortly after Snoke tells Kylo Ren about Han Solo being his dad?
-
YOU'RE WRONG!
...I have no idea. I think you're right actually, at least around that same time. I just remember it was when he was questioning himself so it'd make sense. Perhaps someone who has seen it four times can answer. :lol
-
In regard to Rey's heritage, I was reading speculation that:
possible spoiler if it turns out to be true:
Felicity Jone's character in Rogue One is Rey's mother. This whole next movie is going to establish this character and then tie it together in Episode VIII. I would be cool with that. Taking a real close look at the promotional image for rogue one, I can see it when looking at her character, but who knows.
-
:blush :blush
I'm really embarrassed now. i saw a link to a website on twitter : " Why Force Awakens is actually dreadful ".
I saw the link around somewhere, but didn't click it. Clickbait bullshit like that doesn't deserve traffic.
I have no problem with people disliking the movie, because it did have plenty of faults, but I hate crap like that.
-
Anyone that purports their opinion as fact is a douchebag. Anyone that makes those damn adds are cunts. Royal. Fucking. Cunts. (all of them, by the way...especially those, but right under those are the "Your computer needs to update *such and such*" ... there is no way that works on anyone under the age of 40-ish, and if it does....yeeeeeesh)
-
Me during Han scene:
"Oh, he's going to kill Han, I know it. I see this coming. Yep, there he goes. Well, that was predictable. Now he's falling and it's like Aeris and Gandalf at the same time. This movie is so duBAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! :'("
Also I thought for about half the movie that Kylo Ren was going to be Luke.
Great movie.
Yeah, could see it coming a gazillion miles away...but... it still made me jump.
-
Be patient with me because I'm doing this from memory, but didn't one of the original trailers for the movie have a voice over of Luke talking to someone about the force being strong in his family? Was this something that was cut from the movie? Or was it only intended to be used as some kind of teaser? I don't understand the reasoning if that's the case. And if my memory isn't being faulty, who would you speculate that he was talking to?
-
That VO was dialogue from ROTJ I think ? He was saying it to Leia if I remember rightly...
-
That VO was dialogue from ROTJ I think ? He was saying it to Leia if I remember rightly...
I remember the original scene, but this seemed a little different. Like I said, I sometimes have a faulty memory and I might be creating something out of nothing... :-\
-
I think he rerecorded the lines, but I'm pretty sure it was just for the teaser.
-
This was his narration in the teaser (which, incidentally, are really cool to watch now that I've watched the movie).
The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power, too.
-
I was completely expecting Luke to say that to Rey after they met, went inside, cracked open a few beers, and got to talking. Or something like that. Instead, the way it was building up, I was already guessing that they were just going to end it with her finding Luke, standing there on his island contemplating life or maybe his next independent musical project, and that's what they did. I liked how they ended it, but that did mean that the spoken line was never actually in the movie. The true definition of tease. A glimpse of something you'll never get.
Also, upon reflection, the line itself doesn't mean that she's his daughter, niece, or whatever. He's just saying she also has The Force.
-
In regard to Rey's heritage, I was reading speculation that:
possible spoiler if it turns out to be true:
Felicity Jone's character in Rogue One is Rey's mother. This whole next movie is going to establish this character and then tie it together in Episode VIII. I would be cool with that. Taking a real close look at the promotional image for rogue one, I can see it when looking at her character, but who knows.
That would be really cool and great way to tie the new film in the universe.
-
In regard to Rey's heritage, I was reading speculation that:
possible spoiler if it turns out to be true:
Felicity Jone's character in Rogue One is Rey's mother. This whole next movie is going to establish this character and then tie it together in Episode VIII. I would be cool with that. Taking a real close look at the promotional image for rogue one, I can see it when looking at her character, but who knows.
That would be really cool and great way to tie the new film in the universe.
How though? Rouge 1 is supposed to be about the crew that stole the plans to the Death Start......30+ years ago. They supposedly all lost their lives in doing so (based off of a line of dialogue I can't recall now...something of how they died getting them the plans) plus, Rey is 19-20....that'd put Felicity having to have escaped and then somehow meeting one of the main characters (Luke, Han, Obi Wan) and getting knocked up (Rey HAS to be one of those three's kids...being a random Force user doesn't sit well with me....must be tied together somehow) then having Rey
-
This was his narration in the teaser (which, incidentally, are really cool to watch now that I've watched the movie).
The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power, too.
Exactly. That final bit was not in ROTJ (when he was speaking to Leia), that was new for the teaser. So regardless of whether it was ever intended to be in the film, it's a strong indication that Rey (or theoretically someone else) is a Skywalker of some kind. Otherwise why include the bit about the force being strong in his family?
-
This was his narration in the teaser (which, incidentally, are really cool to watch now that I've watched the movie).
The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power, too.
Exactly. That final bit was not in ROTJ (when he was speaking to Leia), that was new for the teaser. So regardless of whether it was ever intended to be in the film, it's a strong indication that Rey (or theoretically someone else) is a Skywalker of some kind. Otherwise why include the bit about the force being strong in his family?
To create debate as part of a marketing campaign for a movie so people watch it?
It's intentionally ambiguous. It can be read as implying that she has that power due to being part of that family, or it could be read as Luke explaining that he's very familiar with the force and recognizes that power in Rey and will train her.
Rey's backstory was never meant to be revealed in TFA, so it makes no sense that they'd have recorded a voiceover for a trailer that gives it away (and from what I've read, it was recorded specifically just for the trailer, and not deleted dialogue from a scene in the film).
-
Actually that last part WAS spoken to Leia in Jedi. It's spoken about a minute later in the same conversation after Leia protests that Luke has a power she could never have or understand. Luke responds with that line in reply.
-
Actually that last part WAS spoken to Leia in Jedi. It's spoken about a minute later in the same conversation after Leia protests that Luke has a power she could never have or understand. Luke responds with that line in reply.
Exactly.
-
Ah, good catch.
Even so, the implication is clearly there.
-
Ah, good catch.
Even so, the implication is clearly there.
The implication is definitely there, it's a matter of whether she's Luke's daughter, Leia's daughter, or possibly it's a red herring. I think most votes are still on her being Luke's kid, but neither Skywalker option would be surprising to anyone.
Unless it's both. :neverusethis:
-
Ah, good catch.
Even so, the implication is clearly there.
The implication is definitely there, it's a matter of whether she's Luke's daughter, Leia's daughter, or possibly it's a red herring. I think most votes are still on her being Luke's kid, but neither Skywalker option would be surprising to anyone.
I'm sticking with it's Leia and Han's daughter, Ren's sister. It'd be consistent with the 'familiarity and theme' of the past story....keep the Skywalker bloodline as a major focus...and could be 'easily' explained as to why Han honestly didn't know who she was but felt that comfort and closeness and why Leia had that look of 'I know exactly who you are' when she first saw her at the end.
Han and Leia split up.....Leia was preggo but either didn't know or didn't tell him. Ren turned dark or was already dark but didn't know about Rey (his sister) so Leia hides him. Pretty 'easy' story to tell that remains 'familiar' yet it's not hard to believe.
It wouldn't be hard to believe Luke knocked someone up but that seems to me to be a much more difficult story to tell than the one I just described.
-
You could make a plausible case for either one, given how many blanks were left for the time between ROTJ and TFA.
-
For sure, I was only commenting on her being a Skywalker rather than necessarily being Luke's. As you say, Blob, it could be a red herring, and honestly I've got so used to Steven Moffat's lies and red herrings with Sherlock and Doctor Who that nothing really surprises me anymore.
-
Well, I'm predicting she is related to somebody.
...unless midicholorians! :omg:
-
For sure, I was only commenting on her being a Skywalker rather than necessarily being Luke's. As you say, Blob, it could be a red herring, and honestly I've got so used to Steven Moffat's lies and red herrings with Sherlock and Doctor Who that nothing really surprises me anymore.
And JJ Abrams has a bit of a reputation for it too, so I'm sure he knew exactly what he was doing with that teaser. I'm sure they expected and wanted these exact conversations happening.
-
You could make a plausible case for either one, given how many blanks were left for the time between ROTJ and TFA.
Blanks wouldn't account for Rey's inception :neverusethis:
-
Maybe She is Han's daughter but not Leias ?
:omg: That's why they're estranged ?
-
You could make a plausible case for either one, given how many blanks were left for the time between ROTJ and TFA.
Blanks wouldn't account for Rey's inception :neverusethis:
:lol But the force!
Maybe midichlorian is just Star Wars speak for sperm count.
-
But you only need one !
( even though every sperm is sacred :biggrin: )
-
Did you really just make a Monty Python reference in a Star Wars thread? GET OUT! :lol
-
:emo:
-
Did you really just make a Monty Python reference in a Star Wars thread? GET OUT! :lol
STAR WARS!! THE MUSICAL!!!
-
Did you really just make a Monty Python reference in a Star Wars thread? GET OUT! :lol
Shall I go out with a...
silly walk?
(Boy, how funny would that be to see stormtroopers doing that)
-
Actually that last part WAS spoken to Leia in Jedi. It's spoken about a minute later in the same conversation after Leia protests that Luke has a power she could never have or understand. Luke responds with that line in reply.
Here it is:
https://youtu.be/MDYX_PgorRY?t=83
The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power, too.
All of those lines were spoken by Luke in ROTJ... just not in this order.
-
You could make a plausible case for either one, given how many blanks were left for the time between ROTJ and TFA.
both are plausible. I'd think the Han/Leia scenario is more easily explained....trying to detail who Luke knocked up, when...seems like it'd 'take longer' and would be more involved.
-
Perhaps, but is taking longer and being more involved a bad thing? Maybe that hypothetical background is something that it important to the story going forward.
-
Perhaps, but is taking longer and being more involved a bad thing? Maybe that hypothetical background is something that it important to the story going forward.
Not at ALL. I think it'd be cool actually. I'm just trying to imagine what the next movie would entail....maybe there could be a yoda-esk training section where Luke is training Rey and he sits her down to reveal her lineage and that he's her Dad? Maybe with some flashback scenes? Not that 'taking a long time' to tell the story is bad....just as long as it's important to the story (like you said) and that it is done well.
Going to see it for the third time tonight....in IMAX 3D......
-
Abram's on 'ripping off' the OT:
“I knew that, whatever we did, there would be a group of people — and I was just hoping and praying that it would be smaller than not — that would take issue with any number of things,” Abrams says in the latest episode of THR’s Awards Chatter podcast, admitting that everything about the project initially scared him. “But I knew we weren’t making the movie for any other reason than we believed that it could be something meaningful and special and entertaining and worthy of people’s time.”
And sure enough, he has a response to complaints that The Force Awakens leans too heavily on homages from the original trilogy. “I can understand that someone might say, ‘Oh, it’s a complete rip-off!’ ” he says, adding, “What was important for me was introducing brand new characters using relationships that were embracing the history that we know to tell a story that is new — to go backwards to go forwards.”
Nothing that hasn't been discussed here...just a tid bit...
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/j-j-abrams-responds-rip-off-criticism-star-200345779.html
-
You could make a plausible case for either one, given how many blanks were left for the time between ROTJ and TFA.
Blanks wouldn't account for Rey's inception :neverusethis:
:lol But the force!
Maybe midichlorian is just Star Wars speak for sperm count.
That's more than a little creepy considering they did that midichlorian test or whatever with kid Anakin
-
maybe there could be a yoda-esk training section where Luke is training Rey and he sits her down to reveal her lineage and that he's her Dad?
I'm just picturing a yoda-esk training scene where Luke rides around on Rey's back while she's doing backflips and shit around the island.
-
I just saw this portion of a recent review (Confused Matthew) that just absolutely hit *SPOT ON* why this movie completely succeeds where the PT's failed, and why it makes very little to no difference at all that they borrowed some story elements from the OT. He nails it so perfectly, I just had to share it.
Finn, who actually didn't have the name at the opening on a count of being a storm trooper. On a mission to capture and interrogate the likes of Poe, this Storm Trooper was ordered to kill an entire village of innocent people, and could not bring him self to do it. Even before he takes off his Storm Trooper helmet, we can tell what kind of man this is. Someone insecure, unsure of his orders, scared, and above all - a good man.
George Lucas couldn't make a single one of his characters in the Prequel films come across as even organic life, much less characters. The fact that these new writers and directors could characterize a storm trooper in the first few minutes of their film tells me that this new franchise is in good hands.
-
Going to see it for the third time tonight....in IMAX 3D......
[/quote]
I always forget just how awesome the IMAX experience is :metal that movie gets better each time I see it. I'm convinced Han and Leia both know who Rey is....just from the 'looks' they give concerning her and the moments that they give them....they know. and after that viewing i'm back on 'Lukes kid' side.
I appreciate Harrison Ford's effort in this movie more and more every time I see it. To be able to just call back to that character after 30+ years in the manner he did is impressive.
-
Just saw it for the fifth time. More awesome than ever before. I do think that will be my last time in theaters though.
-
Two is enough for me.
-
will probably see it a fourth time today
-
I saw it for the third time today. Awesome movie. A little burned out on Star Wars at this point, but it's been a great few months.
-
My fave scene is still the first Falcon chase. Especially that moment where it takes off then goes sideways and runs along the ground and hits a building.
It feels so real.
-
My fave scene is still the first Falcon chase. Especially that moment where it takes off then goes sideways and runs along the ground and hits a building.
It feels so real.
That entire segment is awesome. Love when they leave their posts then run into each other and can't contain the excitement. That's when you can hear Rey admit she has no idea what came over her to be able to pull off that type of pioloting.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/u7HcWOx.jpg)
-
:'( :'( :'(
-
So.....it's Chewies fault RENs still alive. F'n pu$$y.....
-
Even more :'( ...
(https://s29.postimg.org/716endrnb/Clipboard02.jpg)
-
It's going to be a hard Life Day this year.
-
This one pretty much won everything for me....
(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12494968_1040790612650520_6783346140291550739_n.jpg?oh=b552404807e15917426bfcabeb9dcf1c&oe=574048B0)
-
Usually I don't much care for cartoonist's who clearly mimic another cartoonist's style, but this is really well done.
-
Usually I don't much care for cartoonist's who clearly mimic another cartoonist's style, but this is really well done.
I'm ok with it here since it's an obvious C&H parody in content as well as art style, but I agree with you in principle.
-
Anyone else on here LOVE the ´bar-scene´? Soon as that started I started grinning insanely, going ´yeaahhh´ the nostalgia was enormous. Not too fond about the song playing though....reggae? ???
-
$53m opening in China.
We'll see if it can keep up those figures in the weeks to come. It still has just over $1bn to make to beat Avatar.
As it is - it's sitting at #3 All Time Worldwide.
-
I have to wonder how much the jacked up price of 3D helped Avatar.
-
Not that much since TFA was also in 3D and IMAX 3D too.
-
But it wasn't pushed as a must see in 3D like Avatar was. That was the entire point of Avatar, to show off the technology.
-
Well Avatar was filmed in 3D and Force Awakens was post converted.
I'd love to know how much money TFA made from 2D only screenings.
-
I just wish that there was some way for TFA to actually win Jurassic World's money so that the top 5 worldwide list wouldn't be defiled by that mediocre movie.
-
Well Avatar was filmed in 3D and Force Awakens was post converted.
I'd love to know how much money TFA made from 2D only screenings.
When I went to see it at the Vue in Islington, there were more 2D showings than 3D, and the 2D showings were more fully booked. We saw it in 3D only because it was the next showing and that was more convenient, but our screen was half empty, whereas the 2D showings after ours were nearly full.
Basically, people are getting bored of 3D and just don't give a shit anymore. :lol
-
Definetely true for myself. When me and my friends pick which showings to go to, we often try to go to the 2D ones. 3D isn't nearly as hyped anymore.
-
I've wanted to see TFA at least once in 2D but 80% of the screenings here have been 3D, so it has been 3D all 3 times I've seen it.
-
Yeah 3D is definitely dying out.
-
Agreed.
For Avatar there was no way I was not seeing that in 3D. For TFA, I explicitly did not want to see it in 3D.
-
I don't want to start another Star Trek bitch fest but …
Paramount told JJ that Into Darkness had to be in 3D or
they wouldn't make it.
It just proves that they're only forcing it on us for the extra
box office and not the experience.
Because the 3D in that movie added absolutely nothing.
Post converted always looks shit.
Native 3D like Prometheus and Avatar at least looks better.
-
Yeah 3D is definitely dying out.
Maybe....at least until Avatar 2, 3, and 4 come out.
-
Maybe....at least until Avatar 2, 3, and 4 come out.
:facepalm:
I actually forgot about that. I was more than fine with the Avatar sequels, but now I'm actually worried they are going to prolong this silly 3D phase.
They either need to somehow have a breakthrough in 3D technology that allows it to work without dark glasses, or just drop it all together. It upsets me that I can't see certain movies in IMAX without 3D.
-
...At the very least - with Jim Cameron you know he won't just post convert it for the extra dollar. He's a perfectionist - at least technology wise and it will look good.
He wanted to do Avatar in 2000 after Titanic but the technology wouldn't let him do it. So he waited until 2005 when he saw Gollum in LOTR and then he thought it was good enough.
And now it's been 7 years since the first film and counting... If he was just after the $$ he could have pooped out another Avatar in 2011 .
-
That's true. And I'm fine with Avatar and even Avatar in 3D. If it's part of the original vision, that's awesome, especially with the amount of passion Cameron puts into his films. I'm just disappointed to hear things like this:
Paramount told JJ that Into Darkness had to be in 3D or they wouldn't make it.
-
Yeah at least JJ said " i'm going to shoot the movie in 2D so it looks how I want it to look and I'll convert it afterwards so there's a choice ".
It was something about 3D not working with the anomorphic lenses he wanted to use.
-
Yeah at least JJ said " i'm going to shoot the movie in 2D so it looks how I want it to look and I'll convert it afterwards so there's a choice ".
It was something about 3D not working with the anomorphic lenses he wanted to use.
And also TFA was mostly shot on 35mm film.
This is the problem. The studios force movies to have a 3D release (even though the majority are still phoned in post-conversions), and the cinemas are forcing 3D viewings, and while a lot of people prefer 2D, they still want to see the film and aren't willing to boycott a movie or wait for a 2D screening to show the studios that opinion. So it appears as if 3D is 3D is more popular than it really is. It's a shame too, because the technology is flawed all around.
-
I really didn't mind seeing it in 3d. I think that I was mostly engrossed in the story, so I didn't really register the fact that I was watching it that way most of the time. The only thing about the 3d that stands out in my memory is one scene showing a battle cruiser (I think that's what that kind of ship is called) and it really seemed to jump off of the screen. Other than that I could have taken it or left it. I don't think it ruined any part of the experience for me.
-
The day-before screening I went to was 2D, and it was amazing.
The one time I saw it in 3D, it was less entertaining because it felt like my eyes were physically glued to the screen
-
I really didn't mind seeing it in 3d. I think that I was mostly engrossed in the story, so I didn't really register the fact that I was watching it that way most of the time. The only thing about the 3d that stands out in my memory is one scene showing a battle cruiser (I think that's what that kind of ship is called) and it really seemed to jump off of the screen. Other than that I could have taken it or left it. I don't think it ruined any part of the experience for me.
Exactly! I don't think anyone is saying it's ruined, but as a consumer, why do we have to pay an extra $3+ for something that doesn't enhance the experience whatsoever?!?! The only 3D I ever see is when I really want IMAX - because they don't show the 2D version in IMAX - or when it's actually shot in 3D (which, X-Men is the only movie in 2016 that interests me). Otherwise, there is no value in 3D.
-
I really didn't mind seeing it in 3d. I think that I was mostly engrossed in the story, so I didn't really register the fact that I was watching it that way most of the time. The only thing about the 3d that stands out in my memory is one scene showing a battle cruiser (I think that's what that kind of ship is called) and it really seemed to jump off of the screen. Other than that I could have taken it or left it. I don't think it ruined any part of the experience for me.
Exactly! I don't think anyone is saying it's ruined, but as a consumer, why do we have to pay an extra $3+ for something that doesn't enhance the experience whatsoever?!?! The only 3D I ever see is when I really want IMAX - because they don't show the 2D version in IMAX - or when it's actually shot in 3D (which, X-Men is the only movie in 2016 that interests me). Otherwise, there is no value in 3D.
Yup, you paid more money for a movie in 3d yet didn't really notice you were watching it in 3D. Seems like a rip off to me.
-
Yup, you paid more money for a movie in 3d yet didn't really notice you were watching it in 3D. Seems like a rip off to me.
You paid more money for a movie shot in 2D that they were forced to convert to 3D only so they could charge you an extra $3+. Seems like a rip off to me too.
-
https://www.howmanydaysuntilstarwars.com/episode-viii/
GET HYPED!!
-
*gets hyped*
-
This just in from Finn
Much darker. works for me
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2016/01/12/john-boyega-says-star-wars-episode-viii-darker/78684296/
First Order Strikes Back...
-
Darker doesn't necessarily mean better.
-
Yup, you paid more money for a movie in 3d yet didn't really notice you were watching it in 3D. Seems like a rip off to me.
You paid more money for a movie shot in 2D that they were forced to convert to 3D only so they could charge you an extra $3+. Seems like a rip off to me too.
+1
The *ONLY* reason they're flogging this dead horse.
:deadhorse: Waiting for Godot in 3D !!!
...Actually I typed that as a joke but then I remembered that Baz Luhrmann made The Great Gatsby in 3D.
-
I'm curious about the naming of the movies now. What do you think about sticking to the 'force' theme.
Ep. VIII 'The Force Collides'
Ep. IX ' The Force ......
?
-
Darker doesn't necessarily mean better.
In the great words of Plinkett "my stool is dark"
-
I'm curious about the naming of the movies now. What do you think about sticking to the 'force' theme.
Ep. VIII 'The Force Collides'
Ep. IX ' The Force ......
?
Too confusing I think.
The Order Retaliates.
The Jedi Returns.
-
I'm curious about the naming of the movies now. What do you think about sticking to the 'force' theme.
Ep. VIII 'The Force Collides'
Ep. IX ' The Force ......
?
Episode VII: The Force Awakens
Episode VIII: The Force Hits the Snooze Button
Episode IX: The Force Seriously Just Needs Another 5 Minutes
-
:lol :clap:
-
(https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/the-force-awakens-the-force-needs-5-more-minutes-yoda.jpg)
-
I always found it funny how Luke kept trying to get Yoda to confirm that Vader is his father, but Yoda just kept ignoring him and being like, "Can't a guy die in peace? God damn!"
-
This just in from Finn
Much darker. works for me
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2016/01/12/john-boyega-says-star-wars-episode-viii-darker/78684296/
First Order Strikes Back...
I've read a couple of things about the upcoming films, and I'm excited by them.
I'm not generally into darker, but in the context of Star Wars dark, I think it's a good thing.
-
I'm excited as well, and am also anticipating the usual nitwits making the "no shit" comparisons to the OT despite that this is a trope used in nearly every 'act' of every story and movie as well as many if not most trilogies since the beginning of stories. I expected this one to be dark as such but am still excited to hear it and am interested in what is to come.
I also agree on the whole 'darker' movie cliche that has just absolutely blown up out of the reborn superhero genre (seemingly) starting with Batman Begins. But I don't think we'll be hearing Finn scream in a guttural evil clown voice "WHY YOU WANNA KILL ME!? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2yv8aT0UFc)" to Kylo so I'm good to go. Bring on the dark side.
-
:lol Yeah, given the wide target audience, I don't expect anything gritty or adult, so I'm all good with it.
And it's great to hear how closely the directors of VIII & XI are working together to form the broader narrative too.
Now that they've brought in so many fans both old and new, and established a lot of goodwill by bringing it back to the OT style, they'll have a lot more freedom to explore new ideas in this one, and be given the benefit of the doubt by a much less cynical audience.
-
Yup, you paid more money for a movie in 3d yet didn't really notice you were watching it in 3D. Seems like a rip off to me.
You paid more money for a movie shot in 2D that they were forced to convert to 3D only so they could charge you an extra $3+. Seems like a rip off to me too.
I understand what you guys are saying, but the point that I was trying to make (and probably failed) was that the 3d didn't seem like it was done poorly. If it had looked bad to me then it probably would have stuck out (no pun intended), or hurt my experience. The fact that I didn't notice it that much is probably a good thing. I'm sure that I would have enjoyed the movie either way.
-
I've never found any positives about seeing films in 3D, but definitely find negatives. At times it's quite distracting, and because it's all artificial perspective, I find that it without fail gives me a headache afterwards. I also generally find that it looks less real. I know it's meant to be "immersive" and whatever, but it looks artificial because it's simulated. Whereas I find myself far more engaged and convinced by a good quality 2D image.
-
All post converted 3D does is gives things in the foreground a drop shadow.
-
I'm sure it's worse with post-converted, but I found the same with Avatar, maybe even more so actually, had a really bad headache after that.
And frankly I don't buy the "at least Avatar was shot in 3D" argument, because the CGI wasn't "shot", in 3D or otherwise. If a film is as CGI-heavy as that, I can't see what the difference would be.
-
So I finally got around to listening to the soundtrack and the music is much better than it comes off in the film. The Rey, Resistance, and Kylo Ren themes are typical John Williams brilliance. I hope he lives long enough to do the scores for the next two films if not bring in Howard Shore!
-
Yeah, the score is not getting enough love I'd say. I've heard several people say that it's disappointing, but I think it's great.
-
I listened to the scores for the prequels as well and while there are some great themes, the Force Awakens is much more consistent through out.
-
I've never found any positives about seeing films in 3D....
The only one I can think of where the 3D really added to the movie was Coraline. In that movie, they deliberately screwed with the perspective (and color) in the real world, so the Other world would feel more inviting.
-
I'm sure it's worse with post-converted, but I found the same with Avatar, maybe even more so actually, had a really bad headache after that.
And frankly I don't buy the "at least Avatar was shot in 3D" argument, because the CGI wasn't "shot", in 3D or otherwise. If a film is as CGI-heavy as that, I can't see what the difference would be.
It was about half and half live action and motion capture. Chino will explain... :chino:
-
Too much 3-D blabbing in The Force Awakens thread.
(https://i.imgur.com/wINaPEy.gif)
-
Too much 3-D blabbing in The Force Awakens thread.
(https://i.imgur.com/wINaPEy.gif)
That is brilliant. :lol
-
Here's a VFX comparison for TFA for anyone else who's interested in this kind of thing. While this isn't one of the better breakdowns I've seen, I love seeing the raw shots vs the completed shots with VFX, and seeing what is CGI and practical. A lot of it is obviously CG such as the space battles, but there's also a lot in there that you wouldn't notice.
https://vimeo.com/151719063
-
If I was filming an X wing battle scene in a tiny prop cockpit with people shaking it and surrounded by blue screen - I think i'd feel 50% i'm in an actual star wars movie !
And 50% I feel so stupid :lol
-
Here's a VFX comparison for TFA for anyone else who's interested in this kind of thing. While this isn't one of the better breakdowns I've seen, I love seeing the raw shots vs the completed shots with VFX, and seeing what is CGI and practical. A lot of it is obviously CG such as the space battles, but there's also a lot in there that you wouldn't notice.
https://vimeo.com/151719063
This is awesome. The downed tie fighter looked so great on the big screen because IT WAS REAL, not CGI. I can't say how much I love this, it made a huge impact on me while watching this film. It was not like episodes 1-3 where everything was so obviously CGI.
-
Here's a VFX comparison for TFA for anyone else who's interested in this kind of thing. While this isn't one of the better breakdowns I've seen, I love seeing the raw shots vs the completed shots with VFX, and seeing what is CGI and practical. A lot of it is obviously CG such as the space battles, but there's also a lot in there that you wouldn't notice.
https://vimeo.com/151719063
This is awesome. The downed tie fighter looked so great on the big screen because IT WAS REAL, not CGI. I can't say how much I love this, it made a huge impact on me while watching this film. It was not like episodes 1-3 where everything was so obviously CGI.
This movie knew when to use CG vs practical, and used the CG in situations where it excelled and wouldn't be noticeable to most people. The PT was a pioneer in a lot of this CG usage, but the technology just wasn't there by a mile, and a lot of it was 100% green screen. It was too much too soon. You can see here that there's always at least a bare minimum of practical set in TFA for the actor to interact with, and the VFX are blended much better.
The sad part for me is that the anti-CG crowd don't even realize that most of the CG has passed them by, because good CG is seamless when done properly.
-
Here's a VFX comparison for TFA for anyone else who's interested in this kind of thing. While this isn't one of the better breakdowns I've seen, I love seeing the raw shots vs the completed shots with VFX, and seeing what is CGI and practical. A lot of it is obviously CG such as the space battles, but there's also a lot in there that you wouldn't notice.
https://vimeo.com/151719063
Very cool! Thanks for sharing! Is it May 2017 yet?
-
The sad part for me is that the anti-CG crowd don't even realize that most of the CG has passed them by, because good CG is seamless when done properly.
Indeed. Same with pitch correction on vocals. Most people think of the Cher effect. But don't know when they're listening to subtly tuned vocals.
-
The sad part for me is that the anti-CG crowd don't even realize that most of the CG has passed them by, because good CG is seamless when done properly.
Indeed. Same with pitch correction on vocals. Most people think of the Cher effect. But don't know when they're listening to subtly tuned vocals.
Yep.
And both are great tools when used properly, and both can be easily abused because they're so accessible to use these days. The problem is that people only notice it when it's done badly!
-
The sad part for me is that the anti-CG crowd don't even realize that most of the CG has passed them by, because good CG is seamless when done properly.
Indeed. Same with pitch correction on vocals. Most people think of the Cher effect. But don't know when they're listening to subtly tuned vocals.
Yep.
And both are great tools when used properly, and both can be easily abused because they're so accessible to use these days. The problem is that people only notice it when it's done badly!
And the flipside: Many people would-be experts complain about it being there when it isn't there. ;)
-
The sad part for me is that the anti-CG crowd don't even realize that most of the CG has passed them by, because good CG is seamless when done properly.
Indeed. Same with pitch correction on vocals. Most people think of the Cher effect. But don't know when they're listening to subtly tuned vocals.
Yep.
And both are great tools when used properly, and both can be easily abused because they're so accessible to use these days. The problem is that people only notice it when it's done badly!
And the flipside: Many people would-be experts complain about it being there when it isn't there. ;)
And the flipside: The experts who actually can notice these things cop shit from the people who are too ignorant to notice them. ;)
-
I've never seen that happen.
-
I'd say the same about your scenario.
-
I'd say the same about your scenario.
There was the whole auto-tune thing in TGOM.
-
*tumbleweed passes while a hawk calls in the distance*
Edit: DANG IT, ariich. You ruined the moment by posting before me. :'(
-
I'd say the same about your scenario.
There was the whole auto-tune thing in TGOM.
It was melodyne actually, and it's all a matter of perspective depending on which side of the equation you're on. ;)
But we're getting off topic from what was actually posted.
-
Quantum jokes. You ruined the joke by explaining it :neverusethis:
-
I'd say the same about your scenario.
There was the whole auto-tune thing in TGOM.
It was melodyne actually, and it's all a matter of perspective depending on which side of the equation you're on. ;)
But we're getting off topic from what was actually posted.
Yes, THAT one was melodyne. But it was the same as some exact same comments about autotune where you have people insisting that it absolutely, unequivocally was used and that they can hear the artifacts from it being used, and there is no way they are wrong. Then I check with the band, and lo and behold, they were wrong.
And, yeah, we're getting off topic. Carry on.
-
I'd say the same about your scenario.
There was the whole auto-tune thing in TGOM.
It was melodyne actually, and it's all a matter of perspective depending on which side of the equation you're on. ;)
But we're getting off topic from what was actually posted.
Yes, THAT one was melodyne. But it was the same as some exact same comments about autotune where you have people insisting that it absolutely, unequivocally was used and that they can hear the artifacts from it being used, and there is no way they are wrong. Then I check with the band, and lo and behold, they were wrong.
And, yeah, we're getting off topic. Carry on.
Because bands know everything about audio production. I wouldn't expect a musician to know what pitch correction was applied any more than what gating was applied to the snare drum. Most vocal producers probably wouldn't even tell vocalists they're fixing it up, especially one particular tiny detail. I've seen bands insist many things that have been proven absolutely wrong.
But yes, very off topic. :)
-
I'll just say that at no time during The Force Awakens did I notice any CGI and have it take me out of the moment. As far as I'm concerned, a ship crashed in the desert, and later it sank into the sand. I had no idea that the sinking into the sand was all CGI.
Things like the fight on board the Millenium Falcon with the aliens trying to catch and eat the humans, that's obviously CGI, but I was engrossed in the story and it didn't bother me at all. As far as I'm concerned, they were being chased through the ship by aliens. It looked great. I didn't think "Oh this is so bad, so obviously fake."
So I guess what I'm saying is that yeah, CGI is only noticeable when it's bad and/or takes you out of the moment.
-
I'll just say that at no time during The Force Awakens did I notice any CGI and have it take me out of the moment. As far as I'm concerned, a ship crashed in the desert, and later it sank into the sand. I had no idea that the sinking into the sand was all CGI.
Things like the fight on board the Millenium Falcon with the aliens trying to catch and eat the humans, that's obviously CGI, but I was engrossed in the story and it didn't bother me at all. As far as I'm concerned, they were being chased through the ship by aliens. It looked great. I didn't think "Oh this is so bad, so obviously fake."
So I guess what I'm saying is that yeah, CGI is only noticeable when it's bad and/or takes you out of the moment.
Like The Hobbit films, so easily noticed as CGI that it took away from the enjoyment of watching it. Especially compared to the LotR which looked much better IMO.
-
The Rathtars was one of my few complaints mainly because I didn't feel the scene needed them. The point of it was Han Solo getting out of yet another tricky situation and ending up with Rey/Finn on their quest, but you could have played out those events without having to use CGI creatures IMO.
-
Yeah, but it's Star Wars. Gotta have the aliens. The Rathtars didn't bother me at all.
To be honest, dudes like General Ackbar ("It's a trap!") take me out of the scene just as much because it's so obviously a guy wearing a rubber mask. The tech didn't exist at the time to make him a convincing fish-person, so they went with what they had, but compare him to -- for example -- Davy Jones from the Pirates of the Carribean movies. Full-on seafood-faced dude with moving tentacles and everything, and somehow when I watch him, it never occurs to me that it's CGI.
-
I never had a problem with Ackbar.
-
I accepted him, the same way I accepted the aliens on Star Trek that were obviously actors with prosthetics stuck on their faces, but every time he was on screen, he was the dude with the fish-head mask first, a character second. I expected cheesy prosthetics from Star Trek; from an actual theatrical release I guess I expected more.
-
I never had that problem. He was just Ackbar.
-
Same here. Except we just referred to him as Uncle Ack. And he liked it that way.
-
but compare him to -- for example -- Davy Jones from the Pirates of the Carribean movies. Full-on seafood-faced dude with moving tentacles and everything, and somehow when I watch him, it never occurs to me that it's CGI.
This was always one of my favorite uses of CGI for a character. A tricky one too, and in my opinion they did it incredibly well.
-
Agreed.
-
I never had that problem. He was just Ackbar.
Neither did I. I think because in context he never stood out against any other similarly made charactersin the OT, and they didn't have him too prominent in the new movie.
The funny thing is, the CGI characters all stuck out to me in TFA (Maz, Snoke, etc), while the ones done with masks/prosthetics/puppetry all blended in nicely. I think I'm just used to the Star Wars aesthetic of the OT.
-
I didn't really get the criticisms about Snoke's appearance. I mean, all we ever saw was a hologram, so he is supposed to look computer-generated. I never thought he looked any different than I would have expected him to look.
-
I don't buy the excuse that he's supposed to look computer generated, because it wasn't even revealed right away that he was a hologram at all, and it's a lame excuse that really has nothing to do with why he looked bad. The holograms in the OT looked just fine (just blue and like an old CRT :lol )
That said, if they bother to improve on him in later movies when shown in person, I would begrudgingly accept it as head canon.
-
Why did he need to be "revealed" as a hologram, when it was obvious that he was a hologram? I'm not sure what the beef is. He looked pretty much like the holograms in the other movies. That is how holograms look in the Star Wars universe. What's the problem?
-
I don't know about the PT, but he didn't look like the holograms in the OT at all, not even "pretty much". They were always transparent, blue tinted, had a scanline overlay, used additive blending, and did not fit with their environment. This is all consistent with them being projected light, ie a hologram.
Snoke was 100% opaque, fully integrated with the scene lighting and volumetrics, and contiguous with the scene geometry, consistent with actually being there in every single way. It wasn't until later when they showed a brief flicker that it was made known to the audience he was a hologram. Until then, it appeared as if he was a giant dude, with the full extent of his large size and nature being a point of speculation before the movie came out.
So the problem is that he didn't look good, and didn't look like a hologram. But aside than that... :lol
-
(shrug) I never for a moment thought he was a "giant dude"....I figured he was a hologram from the first moment he appeared.
I also had no issue at all, and was totally shocked when I saw other people having an issue.
-
(shrug) I never for a moment thought he was a "giant dude"....I figured he was a hologram from the first moment he appeared.
I also had no issue at all, and was totally shocked when I saw other people having an issue.
Yeah, same here. Blob's explanation aside, he looked exactly like the holograms in the OT to me.
-
Yeah, zero similarity aside, they looked exactly the same. :lol
-
I'm with Blob, I had so many thoughts running through my head like "WHAT FUCKING RACE IS THIS DUDE!?" and wondering why a race of humongous godlike giants was just being revealed and then the flicker came and I was like "Aw shit, got me good".
I don't know how it was obvious but uh...cool to those who noticed it. I thought it was supposed to be trickery and I think the random as hell flicker at an opportune moment (which just so happened to not happen until that point, when he was still mysterious and initially unveiled) is a pretty good indication that they at least wanted to fool people even if you geniuses saw right through it. You smart fother muckers.
-
I didn't even notice the flicker. I didn't know he was a hologram until he faded away completely. As for his look, I personally don't find it as "bad" as some say, but I agree that it sort of stands out next to all the practical stuff.
-
The original Emperor Hologram:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rKtciRCVpFE/hqdefault.jpg)
The prequel Emperor Hologram:
(https://bplusmovieblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/star-wars-the-phantom-menace-28.png?w=590)
The Supreme Leader Snoke Hologram:
(https://i2.wp.com/bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/slashfilm/wp/wp-content/images/Star-Wars-The-Force-Awakens-Supreme-Leader-Snoke.jpg)
If you think that those look exactly the same, then honestly I would say it is just a case of your mind deceiving you because you are aware they are all holograms (or you are partially blind).
Having said that I didn't have a problem with Snoke's CGI appearance - it didn't look like a guy in a rubber mask but I thought it looked all right, the fact that it was a hologram and he is meant to be kind of in shadow also kind of excuses any obviousness of the CGI a little to me. Plus I thought it was quite a cool and relatively fresh design choice to have the hologram appear realistic and initially present him as an actual giant (if briefly).
-
Snoke looks pretty awesome in still frames, but in movement he looked off to me. I think it was the eyes and the mouth movement, two of the most difficult areas for CG faces.
I liked what they did with the hologram, it was very different, and added to the mystery of Snoke and who/what he is. I read that he's supposed to be 7' tall, but technically he could be any height at this point.
-
It wasn't so much the look for me as it was the set up. The entire environment felt so much like Vader addressing the Emperor for the first time in ESB, that I just took it for granted immediately. The method of addressing your superiors by that method had been so well established in both the OT and the PT, that it just seemed completely obvious.
And while there is certainly a more "rabbit ears TV" type of lower quality to the older transmissions, Snoke still (to my eyes) had a transparency to him...like I could tell right away that he wasn't really there.
Like they improved the technology over 20 years....big deal.
-
He wasn't transparent in any way from what I can see, maybe it was the smoke (lol snoke smoke) that gave it that feel.
But yeah, since the setup was so obviously paralleling Vader/Palpatine, it probably was played with some ambiguity.
-
Yeah, it's the same. It's just that Snoke is in HD, while the Emperor had to settle for SD.
-
In the first two, the Emperor is lit like he's in another room, like there's a different light in the room he's broadcasting from. Snoke is lit like he's in the room with the others. So that's a big difference.
-
The setup was exactly the same, but the original holograms were blue and transparent, while Snoke (while perhaps appearing slightly fuzzy or off) was definitely not transparent or blue - except for the "flickers" which was what confirmed him as a hologram.
For example, here is the Emperor hologram in the OT from the "remastered" version:
(https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/6/6d/Threatofskywalker.png/revision/latest?cb=20130320044145)
That is the exact same style of hologram - transparent enough that you can see through him, blue, and somewhat grainy - done with improved visuals. Snoke is absolutely not in that exact same style - in the picture I posted you can even see that the light doesn't pass through him, he is not blue.
Here, I think, is Snoke during the "flicker"; first you have the solid form, natural colour version:
(https://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/images/c_limit,h_447,w_640/t_mp_quality/b3n6ctvvqdqanfagc4d4/could-episode-7-s-supreme-leader-snoke-really-be-him-790684.jpg)
which briefly flickers to become like the old familiar, blue holograms:
(https://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/Supreme-Leader-Snoke-Hologram.jpg)
(Unfortunately there aren't many good images online).If Snoke always looked like he did when the hologram flickered then it would be essentially the same style, but he didn't.
Plotwise there is no difference between the setup (reporting big projection of the evil supreme leader / emperor), but to say there is no difference between the style of the hologram (one transparent and blue, one solid and in natural colour) apart from one being in HD seems just to be missing the obvious (or being deliberately obtuse).
-
seems just to be missing the obvious (or being deliberately obtuse).
This reminds me of another discussion :neverusethis:
-
‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ Practical Effects That You Thought Were CG [Interview] (https://www.slashfilm.com/force-awakens-practical-effects/)
Short excerpt of a longer piece to be published next month. Neat info.
-
Cool. I thought the food thing was CGI when I saw it. I figured the big red walking robot was CGI too, but hadn't given it too much thought. The other creatures mentioned I knew were practical.
I'm interested to see what else.
-
That the bread was practical is really cool, because I always loved how perfecetly real it looked. Turns out that was because it was. It was like when I saw BB8 for the first time, I remember posting here that "that must be some of the most genuine CGI I've ever seen". It just proves that even though we've gotten this far with what we can computer animate, nothing quite beats the real thing yet.
-
It wasn't so much the look for me as it was the set up. The entire environment felt so much like Vader addressing the Emperor for the first time in ESB, that I just took it for granted immediately. The method of addressing your superiors by that method had been so well established in both the OT and the PT, that it just seemed completely obvious.
And while there is certainly a more "rabbit ears TV" type of lower quality to the older transmissions, Snoke still (to my eyes) had a transparency to him...like I could tell right away that he wasn't really there.
Like they improved the technology over 20 years....big deal.
Exactly. Glad somebody gets it rather than taking what I and others have said out of context.
...which briefly flickers to become like the old familiar, blue holograms
And, again, exactly right.
-
That the bread was practical is really cool, because I always loved how perfecetly real it looked. Turns out that was because it was. It was like when I saw BB8 for the first time, I remember posting here that "that must be some of the most genuine CGI I've ever seen". It just proves that even though we've gotten this far with what we can computer animate, nothing quite beats the real thing yet.
My mother was stunned when I told her BB8 was an actual thing that they built.
-
Yeah, my dad too. It took us a while for him to even believe us.
-
Saw the regular version few weeks ago. Going back next week to watch it in again but in 3D
-
Yeah, it's the same. It's just that Snoke is in HD, while the Emperor had to settle for SD.
First Order Technology >>>>>> Empire Technology
-
Stumbled across this today. Surreal
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/06/20/30F2B8FA00000578-3435292-image-a-59_1454790981532.jpg)
-
That's one of the best things I've ever seen.
-
Emo Kylo Ren is a hoot:
(https://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/kylo-ren-emo-twitter.jpg)
He's even a music snob:
(https://news.entertainmentearth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/kylo-ren-twitter-640x384.jpg)
-
That old school pic is simultaneously scary, awesome and horrifyingly depressing.
Emo Ren is fucking :metal :sadpanda:
-
:rollin :lol :rollin
-
That picture is classic lol
-
" Everyone thought TFA would beat Avatar but it's not going to beat Titanic ! "
" You don't know. It depends on the totals from January ! "
:lol keep dreaming. it's got another $200m to make and at the moment - it's making less than $2m a day.
-
It will probably be in theaters for another 2 months though
-
I can see it staying in theaters past the April 5th blu ray release.
-
It will probably be in theaters for another 2 months though
I guarantee it will not make another $200m. During the week it makes less than $1m a day.
-
The only way it is surpassing Titanic is if they re-release it, which is what they did with Titanic anyway.
-
(https://puu.sh/n2jmw/9343827dbf.jpg)
-
Interesting! The first two, anyway. I'm not sure what the third pic adds, but I never noticed the connection in the first two.
-
Interesting! The first two, anyway. I'm not sure what the third pic adds, but I never noticed the connection in the first two.
The third pic is probably a reminder that Kylo Ren worships Vader and has that mask with him.
-
I guess. But it's not like we needed the reminder.
-
True. I think they just considered it more evidence for the case.
Personally I don't think it's Vader (or any variation), and I really hope not. They have enough callbacks, and I think they need to keep it fresh. Having a direct connection to Vader would reek of EU.
-
True. I think they just considered it more evidence for the case.
Personally I don't think it's Vader (or any variation), and I really hope not. They have enough callbacks, and I think they need to keep it fresh. Having a direct connection to Vader would reek of EU.
Agreed. And I think the series being 1-3: his rise, 4-6: his fall (and eventual redemption) and 7-9: his legacy makes sense and is a cool idea. If they actually brought him back in some form, that would feel very forced.
-
Whoa. God fucking damn it.
I really, really hope not but that is quite the connection. Undeniable, I'd say...
And the third pic is no doubt there to show that he's somehow become even more disfigured when whatever happened to melt/deform the mask also further disfigured his face and eye. The left (our right) eye in the Snoke pic and that half of the face is fairly more disfigured than in the OT Vader pic, the eye is further upwards and outwards and his nostril on that side is nearly nonexistent; both deformations completely absent before, both nearly (exactly, to my eyes) the same positions as the helmet's melted side, specifically the eye, nostril and cheek/mouth...to a T. That's the part that really gets me is that...it's so fucking similar in position, combined with the scars...UUUUUGH. You can even see stretching and scarring on that side of his face that isn't there on the other side. At first it just looks like age marks but with that helmet pic, which is in, again, pretty much the exact same spots of melted parts...it's uncanny.
I mean it's...kind of ridiculously similar. I wouldn't be surprised if it was at least some kind of phantom (menace; oh god wouldn't that be so awesome if they actually called it that) or ephemeral projection of his force. But again, I hope it's nothing more than a really odd callback but uh...man...with all the talk of how powerful and everlasting his force was, more than anyone else in the universe...I wouldn't be surprised if they made it so that his force can make him nearly immortal and/or extend his lifespan to that of ridiculous proportions. I think it'd take the entire New Trilogy down a couple notches but...I can absolutely see that happening. That's crazy.
They'd get some points for hiding it that well though, unless I just missed talk of it. Which is entirely possible considering that I don't pay any attention to Star Wars talk but here and dismiss almost every theory as batshit insanity from all too obsessed Star Wars addicts. But the fact it wasn't immediately talked about is enough said, I mean that is absolutely at the very least some kind of homage, it's ridiculously similar... So good on them at all for this well veiled...whatever it is. I hope homage, but I'm not gonna say it's impossible that Snoke is Vader....*GASP*
VADER...SNOKE...VAPOR...SMOKE....HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED.
-
Abrams in particular I just cannot see screwing up the original series by essentially retconning Vader's redemption at the end of Jedi. I don't think it's Vader.
-
That too. I just can't get over the combination of the scars (which alone would be an "ah, interesting" thing but hardly convincing) and the coincidental left side of Snoke's face in near tandem with the immense warping of the coincidental same side of the helmet in the same spots. That's...a bit too much for me and I'm not even "looking" for those connections...they kind of just jumped out at me. Being a completely nonchalant SW fan allows me to be pretty unbiased in that regard. I can still see this being a big coincidence but uh...seriously, those are tough to deny unless anyone just does't see the similarities, which I'd find insane. Unless you're an old fogey in which case your opinion is null and void, just like your eyeballs. :P Even with that subpar pic quality it's pretty apparent to me.
-
Doesn't have to be a coincidence - a big theme of the trilogy could be Anakin's/Vader's legacy. We've already seen that in Kylo Ren. Snoke could be similarly influenced by Vader, or his force essence or whatever, without it actually being Vader himself.
Like I said before, I quite like the Vader's legacy idea, and it would fit well as a natural follow-on from the previous trilogies.
-
Also, isn't Vader's skull still inside the helmet?
-
I would hope that he scooped out the charred giblets first. :lol
-
I would hope that he scooped out the charred giblets first. :lol
Unless he's into that sort of thing.
-
Charred Vader.
-
I love where this thread is going.
-
I really hope there's no Vader is Snoke (or Vader's ghost / clone is Snoke). I noticed the scar on the head the first showing and thought "wow, that's pretty Vader. It might be him. That would be cool .... maybe not. Let's not turn this into Friday the 13th or Nightmare on Elm Street."
And please, no Rey was mindwiped by Luke/Snoke/Ren. Traumatic amnesia or traumatic childhood memory repression is infinitely more palatable.
Is Snoke a combination of some other characters names like Kylo is sKYwalker soLO?
I'm reserving final judgment on The Force Awakens until I see how it all fits together. Loved it right up until Rey's arc took too sharp a turn. Not sure how they are going to explain that. I even wrote in the Star Wars thread that I figured Jedi Finn was a misdirection and Rey would end up being the Jedi to beat Ren, but based off Ren being all dark jedi talk and no dark jedi swagger. But then he
1. Stopped a laser bolt in mid air, without even knowing it was coming (except via Spidey Sense). Then carried on a conversation with others while still holding it. First impression. This dude is bad ass.
2. Spock mind raped others with ease. Vader couldn't do that with Leia (or Han even if that wasn't the goal in Empire)
3. Completely paralyzed others
4. Toyed with Finn until he got too careless. Then proving he was toying with Finn by disarming him and taking out Finn in one quick move (a la Vader to Luke in ESB).
So ... his arc was not a pretender to the throne, but the real deal. Then the last 20 minutes happened.
It also takes away some of the drama as that usually comes from the good guys being a long shot to the bad guys. That's been reversed.
-
You may have written Rey when you meant Ren.
-
I'm reserving final judgment on The Force Awakens until I see how it all fits together. Loved it right up until Rey's arc took too sharp a turn. Not sure how they are going to explain that. I even wrote in the Star Wars thread that I figured Jedi Finn was a misdirection and Rey would end up being the Jedi to beat Rey, but based off Rey being all dark jedi talk and no dark jedi swagger. But then he
1. Stopped a laser bolt in mid air, without even knowing it was coming (except via Spidey Sense). Then carried on a conversation with others while still holding it. First impression. This dude is bad ass.
2. Spock mind raped others with ease. Vader couldn't do that with Leia (or Han even if that wasn't the goal in Empire)
3. Completely paralyzed others
4. Toyed with Finn until he got too careless. Then proving he was toying with Finn by disarming him and taking out Finn in one quick move (a la Vader to Luke in ESB).
So ... his arc was not a pretender to the throne, but the real deal. Then the last 20 minutes happened.
So Rey can't be a badass? I think she proved just the same right out of the gate when we see that she was getting the most elusive..well paid off parts from the downed ships (she comments how much they had paid for them the week before and then now she was getting ripped off) She knows her way around a ship...then unbeknownst to her the Force decides to help her fly the Falcon in her time of need...you can even see her in moments almost 'praying' which in past Star Wars films usually meant the Force was being 'accessed'. She did that same thing without even knowing it. On the planet when Ren first trys to mind invade her just as he was getting going he was interrupted but that gave her a chance to really stirr up the Force as well and feel what she was up against, which...subsequently led her to Jedi Mind trick 007. She clearly knows her history because when they meet Han Solo Finn says "the war hero?" but she says "no, the famous smuggler" so she's been educated to a point.
I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to believe that she (lineage yet to be revealed) is undoubtedly more "powerful" than Ren could ever hope to be...if he didn't know it after she repelled his mind invasion then he does now that she whooped him at a saber duel and if not for a falling apart planet would have killed him. The Force...when she willingly sought it....completely manifest itself and guided her to not get beaten by Ren.
By the time those two meet again Ren will have been taught more by Snoke and Rey will have been taught more by Luke....it would appear to be a great battle setting up.
-
Just a little aside ...
Cameras have started rolling on Episode 8.
-
I still don't get how people question the Rey vs Ren fight. They take pretty much the entire movie setting up how powerful the crossbow was, and that people getting hit flew away by the power of it. Ren took a shot straight in the gut and was pretty much mortally wounded by the time he faced Finn and Rey. Rey being able to hold her own against a severely injured Ren is not as big of a feat as some people say.
Am I the only one who thinks Rey is gonna get really injured when they face each other again in E8? The middle movie is always the darkest one, and considering that she did sort of win the first battle (even if Ren was badly injured), I just have a bad feeling she will barely make it out of E8, just so that she can return for a glorious win in E9. But I don't want her to lose her hand, because we've seen enough of that IMO.
-
SPOILERS:
She will lose her left earlobe.
-
And not only was Ren seriously injured, but Ray already was alread a badass with a staff weapon, so i could see her being able to improvise with a saber and she's naturally gifted in the force as well (maybe even more so then Ren) so there is that factor as well.
My guess for Episode 8 would be rey confronts a fully trained and healed Ren, gets her ass beat a la Empire, but as the final blow is about to come Luke steps in and puts up a valiant fight but ends up dying, right before or after he admits to rey he is her father. Rey sees his death, but is taken away/has to flee before she can avenge him, ending on a super sour note once again reflecting empire.
Then in Episode 9, leia is killed in front of Ren somehow, possibly by snoke, thus rekindling the last piece of the light side he had in him and allowing him to redeem himself. Like yeah, he hated his father and blamed him for a lot, but at this point we have no idea if he cares for mother. Much remains to be seen.
just throwing stuff out there.
-
its like pottery it rimez
You're probably not far off.
-
If I am right, I hope I get mailed a pizza role ;)
-
If I am right, I hope I get mailed a pizza role ;)
Oh wait how is that po
1. PHOENIX GETS A PIZZA ROLL
-
mind rape
Yeah, you really need to stop using that term.
-
mind invasion
Yeah, you really need to stop using that term.
Changed in all locations used....sorry......
-
You may have written Rey when you meant Ren.
Thanks. Fixed.
-
I think part of the problem with the Ren vs Rey fight (and before that, Ren vs Finn) is that Ren didn't "seem" that badly hurt. Yeah, he's been hit by the bowcaster, which does serious damage and I'm sure hurts like hell, but to be honest, even minutes later, I'd forgotten all about that because he didn't really look like he was hurt. I've only seen it once, but was he visibly limping, like, a lot? Was he bleeding? Seriously questions; I don't remember.
But what I do remember is that when they were fighting, I was thinking "How is this guy not totally destroying them?" Because in movies, you can get shot or get a limb lopped off, and you can still keep fighting without a problem. Unless the script calls for it to be a problem, that is, in which case it's made obvious by limping or bleeding or whatever. I actually thought it was pretty stupid that Finn and Rey each held their own against him for as long as they did, until it was pointed out here that he was pretty badly hurt. Oh yeah, that.
-
I think part of the problem with the Ren vs Rey fight (and before that, Ren vs Finn) is that Ren didn't "seem" that badly hurt. Yeah, he's been hit by the bowcaster, which does serious damage and I'm sure hurts like hell, but to be honest, even minutes later, I'd forgotten all about that because he didn't really look like he was hurt. I've only seen it once, but was he visibly limping, like, a lot? Was he bleeding? Seriously questions; I don't remember.
But what I do remember is that when they were fighting, I was thinking "How is this guy not totally destroying them?" Because in movies, you can get shot or get a limb lopped off, and you can still keep fighting without a problem. Unless the script calls for it to be a problem, that is, in which case it's made obvious by limping or bleeding or whatever. I actually thought it was pretty stupid that Finn and Rey each held their own against him for as long as they did, until it was pointed out here that he was pretty badly hurt. Oh yeah, that.
Everyone else that gets hit with a bowcaster not only dies but is flung across the room. It's a powerful weapon.
-
I still don't get how people question the Rey vs Ren fight.
I don't get how people discount Rey had
- been in nonstop action for what was probably 1-2 days ... would push anybody into exhaustion
- Even if she was some Super Jedi at age 8, ten or so years would be quite a bit of *ring rust*
- had to take in a lot emotionally ... accepting her family wasn't going to return, finding and then quickly losing a father figure
- emotional trauma and confusion with Anakin's saber
- put in a state of paralysis, shock of thinking she was about to be beheaded, then *knocked out*
- woke up to an interrogation
- had to escape by herself
- physically - thrown 30 feet into a tree and knocked out "yet again"
So they were both compromised greatly. Then you go back to the saber skills, clearly in Ren's favor. He didn't just suddenly succumb to his injuries (which should have been an easier save for him than the Poe shot considering the growling telegraph and distance)
It didn't bother me on first watch. The movie was extremely fun the first viewing. But once I replayed it in my head and then further viewings, it started to lose a little something. It really kind of struck me as The Last Dragon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkKYwI12bjM)
It was a bit confusing because Rey did a meditation to find her Force Qi or her Buddhist center. But then she clearly was fighting with dark side power (like Luke RotJ). She basically lapped (multiple times) any previous Jedi *training* advancement we've seen in any previous SW movie. Search your feelings. You know it's true.
But like I said, I'm going to reserve a more conclusive judgment until after the trilogy arc completes. It feels like they painted themselves into a corner with this ending, but that could just mean the explanation will be a more surprising and rewarding conclusion. I'm hyped up for Ep. 8 and 9. It really could go either way. It could be a dark Ep.9 ending setting up Ep. 10-12 for resolution. Or it could go RotJ ending where everything seems to be set right again. As long as they don't reboot Ep 4-6 for the entire trilogy.
One of the more interesting fan theories is Luke and Leia turn on one another because of their unbreakable connection to their offspring (assuming Rey is Luke's kid).
-
I think part of the problem with the Ren vs Rey fight (and before that, Ren vs Finn) is that Ren didn't "seem" that badly hurt. Yeah, he's been hit by the bowcaster, which does serious damage and I'm sure hurts like hell, but to be honest, even minutes later, I'd forgotten all about that because he didn't really look like he was hurt. I've only seen it once, but was he visibly limping, like, a lot? Was he bleeding? Seriously questions; I don't remember.
But what I do remember is that when they were fighting, I was thinking "How is this guy not totally destroying them?" Because in movies, you can get shot or get a limb lopped off, and you can still keep fighting without a problem. Unless the script calls for it to be a problem, that is, in which case it's made obvious by limping or bleeding or whatever. I actually thought it was pretty stupid that Finn and Rey each held their own against him for as long as they did, until it was pointed out here that he was pretty badly hurt. Oh yeah, that.
Ren pounds on his gut wound right when he confronts Rey and Finn escaping, and Rey notices the blood dripping on the snow. Ren also pounds on his wound again in the middle of the fight. A blast which would have decimated anyone else, and he's still able to move around despite any movement at all aggravating the wound on his "core". Not to mention, both combatants (Finn v. Ren and Rey v. Ren) disengaged multiple times to either recover or get away.
And not only was Ren seriously injured, but Ray already was alread a badass with a staff weapon, so i could see her being able to improvise with a saber and she's naturally gifted in the force as well (maybe even more so then Ren) so there is that factor as well.
This. Ren's primary skill in the Force seems to be mental manipulation and telekinetic feats, not physical combat. Other than the vision Rey had of the Knights of Ren wiping out the other Jedi hopefuls, we don't know if Ren has had to face a serious combatant with a lightsaber. For all we know, he crafted his lightsaber after turning to Snoke/The Dark Side (which would also account for its crude construction) and simply mowed everyone down, most of whom, if not all, hadn't even reached that stage in Luke's training. Yes, I'm choosing to disregard the scene of youngling's training with mini-lightsabers in the PT.
Then in Episode 9, leia is killed in front of Ren somehow, possibly by snoke, thus rekindling the last piece of the light side he had in him and allowing him to redeem himself. Like yeah, he hated his father and blamed him for a lot, but at this point we have no idea if he cares for mother. Much remains to be seen.
On the bridge when Han confronts Ren, one of his last pleas to his son is "We miss you", and you can see Kylo start to tear up as he struggles with what he had already decided to he needed to do. Coupled with Leia's regret for sending her son away to Luke for training, I think Kylo is conflicted with his love for her as well as a certain amount of resentment.
-
And not only was Ren seriously injured, but Ray already was alread a badass with a staff weapon
And in high school, I was a bad ass Water Polo player. But when we played the football team in a game of football (or wrestling), they'd slaughter us. We'd destroy them even worse in the pool than they did on the field. We'd have to play basketball, tennis, badminton, soccer or some other neutral game for it to be competitive. In combat sports, look at boxers crossover to MMA or football players turn boxer. It usually ends in a blow out. Only lots of training and experience corrects that.
Luke steps in and puts up a valiant fight but ends up dying
...
Leia is killed in front of Ren
Damn. Is Chewie even safe if you were to write the scripts? ;D
They've already flipped the script with Ren almost having a Luke like journey (except fighting the light instead of the dark). Snoke (Yoda) wanted Ren to kill his father (Snoke: Ren - Solo / YodaBen: Luke - Anakin), but Ren not only chose a different path (dark), but a different choice ... going through with it.
Luke was kind of both seen as potentially powerful, but also somewhat dismissed as not a true warrior early on.
So, what if Snoke completes Ren's training and then dies like Yoda? What I got from the events was not that Snoke needed to simply level up Ren some more because he lost to a newb. Snoke was withholding the final training because those Skywalker's tend to meet a relative, realize they are light and kill their dark master. Ren proved himself (this will be your biggest test. He means nothing to me. I don't know if I can do it. Can you help me?) by killing Han. That's what triggered the key to the final training course, not his loss. I got the impression Snoke was ready to give up the dark goods the minute that lasersword pierced Han's torso.
There's lots of talk about Ren being a double agent for the light. And there was probably enough left in the script to open that possibility up without it conflicting. He's being torn apart by his mission. Personally, that seems less rewarding.
I like the idea of Ren being Luke's star pupil until Rey Skywalker starts training. His jealousy (and insecurity) leads him to Snoke and the Knights of Ren. They slaughter the temple, but Ren is pulled to the light when a Knight goes to kill Rey, so Ren takes out one of his own knights. Ren both hates and loves Rey (as a relative), so he drops her off on Jakku. There is also the possibility that he doesn't want to kill his uncle. Perhaps Luke didn't run to Achto, but Ren stranded him there. This would relieve the worry that Luke actually left his daughter on Jakku with Simon Pegg of all people. It isn't that Ren is undercover, he's just trying to be powerful without having to kill his relatives. Like all Skywalkers, he's a family man. No matter how evil they get, don't f*ck with their family. Unfortunately, Snoke forced his hand on Han. Ren had to decide between that elusive power and never having to kill a relative. He had daddy issues, so even though it was hard, he had something to draw upon to do the deed. And "that girl" showed up again, so he can't leave anything to chance.
-
And not only was Ren seriously injured, but Ray already was alread a badass with a staff weapon
And in high school, I was a bad ass Water Polo player. But when we played the football team in a game of football (or wrestling), they'd slaughter us. We'd destroy them even worse in the pool than they did on the field. We'd have to play basketball, tennis, badminton, soccer or some other neutral game for it to be competitive. In combat sports, look at boxers crossover to MMA... It usually ends in a blow out.
Yup, totally. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCwlB1oP6OQ Oh, wait...
Yeah, and aside from that, you are talking about sports requiring very different skills. Phoenix87x is talking about styles of combat that are not so dissimilar, and against an adversary that was grievously injured.
So, what if Snoke completes Ren's training and then dies like Yoda? What I got from the events was not that Snoke needed to simply level up Ren some more because he lost to a newb. Snoke was withholding the final training because those Skywalker's tend to meet a relative, realize they are light and kill their dark master. Ren proved himself (this will be your biggest test. He means nothing to me. I don't know if I can do it. Can you help me?) by killing Han. That's what triggered the key to the final training course, not his loss.
Hmm...I like this theory.
-
Yup, totally. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCwlB1oP6OQ Oh, wait...
And yet when I started that thread here .....
As a simple rebuttal, perhaps if Rey used Darth Maul's saber. And Ren met Rey after she had been professionally lightsaber fighting for 4 years.
-
I also think people give Kylo Ren too much credit when it comes to his saber skills. He was strong with the force, but why does that have to mean he was equally strong with the saber? Luke was never trained with the saber, and it wouldn't be surprising if he taught his pupils mainly the ways of the force (like he was taught himself by Yoda), and considering the lack of both Jedi and Sith at this point in time, it's not like Kylo Ren has met any major opponents in a 1v1 duel. Sure, they talk about how he turned and most likely got rid of all the others, but if they were all pupils, it's not like he met any major competition. Again, it's pretty easy to be badass and break people with the force if all you're up against are normal non-force users who can't do much about it. The fact that he was severely injured combined with him underestimating both Finn and Rey resulted in him taking some bad hits.
Snoke said that he would finish Ren's training and I think the saber skill plays a big part in that. Before the force awakened (pun intended) in Rey, there really wasn't a need for Ren to be at 100%, until they found Luke. But being taken off guard by another force user, it became clear that Ren was far from the fully trained Sith that many people assumed he was when he entered the screen.
-
I also think people give Kylo Ren too much credit when it comes to his saber skills.
Well, we were given evidence that he handled the saber with at least average Jedi ability.
1. He parried away laser shots from Rey while also advancing on her. And right before that, we were shown she was quite a good shot (and surprise, learned it by shot #2)
2. We are shown that the stormtroopers are trained in melee weapon combat (like Rey's staff). Despite that, he toyed with FN-2187. And he wasn't just overpowering him. Ren was clearly using some refined skill. Like Vader, it was so easy that he lost focus and started admiring his work too much.
I compare it to this
Campbell poses and Peden knocks him out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq9Xs8BeRuQ)
Like Vader, he realized he needed to stop toying and actually fight to win, which ends the fight in devastating fashion in mere seconds.
As far as Rey's Plagueis stick talents, we watched her beat up two unarmed thugs and a cheap shot to Finn. Hardly proof that she is as talented ... with a non-saber no less.
it's not like Kylo Ren has met any major opponents in a 1v1 duel.
Despite the movie visual evidence, you could say the same about Darth Maul, Darth Tyrannus, etc until they actually fight. They had masters and it is accepted (and written about in novels) that they trained with those masters. Maul in particular couldn't reveal himself to the Jedi until the last days of his life. The Jedi weren't exactly fighting Sith in most of their life times. And yet, we seem them at their pinnacle of saber combat skills.
You could say the same about Vader. The Jedi were more or less gone and he was "rusty" when Luke came back. And yet he easily bested a half-trained Luke (as opposed to an untrained Rey).
The fact that he was severely injured combined with him underestimating both Finn and Rey resulted in him taking some bad hits.
He was toying with Finn. He was just admiring his work too much. I never saw it as Finn learned how to exploit a Ren combat weakness, but that Ren was having too much fun torturing the traitor. And I don't think he underestimated Rey at all. If anything, his character was written to fear her because for some unexplained reason, she was leveling up exponentially every 5 minutes. If anything, he wanted to stop her at 3:40pm, because she'd be better than Sidious by 3:45pm. He got thrown off because the sun disappeared and it went dark even though it was still 3:35pm. Perhaps the massive gravitational pull of that captured star was messing up his technique.
until they found Luke
I got the impression Snoke wasn't looking for Luke, but just making sure nobody else did. It was Ren that was looking for Luke. And I don't think we can even assume why. The easy answer is to kill him. Perhaps he either a) couldn't do it before because there was too much conflict in him or b) felt he wasn't strong enough, but now feels he is. Hux made it clear Snoke was about destroying the map, not saving it. So Ren couldn't say "I have the map, now power me up so I can kill Luke." That would be against Snoke's plan. Therefore, Ren felt he was powerful on his own at that point. And what better way to prove he was stronger than Vader by doing what he couldn't ... kill Luke. Assuming he wants to kill Luke. Maybe he wants Luke to bail him out. Han can't bail him out, so he had to pick the stronger side. But maybe Luke can. Maybe the double agent thing is right and it is time to get Luke to kill Snoke (hopefully not).
But being taken off guard by another force user, it became clear that Ren was far from the fully trained Sith that many people assumed he was when he entered the screen.
Sith? I argued on the Star Wars thread here he shouldn't be a Sith almost a year before the release (and was told I didn't know what I was talking about). JJ confirmed before the movie. We don't even know if Snoke is a Sith. And not *fully trained* doesn't mean you are severely lacking. Lennox Lewis was infinitely better in his 2nd reign than when McCall put him down. Wladimir Klitschko was infinitely more complete after Corrie Sanders laid him out. But "still getting better" Lewis and Klitschko would beat up a debut pro-boxer debut with no amateur fights.
-
Not that I think this is what is actually happening, but
(https://media.comicbook.com/2016/01/tarkin-snoke-166284.jpg)
Snoke kind of reminded me of what a reanimated corpse of Grand Moff Tarkin might look like.
-
Not that I think this is what is actually happening, but
(https://media.comicbook.com/2016/01/tarkin-snoke-166284.jpg)
Snoke kind of reminded me of what a reanimated corpse of Grand Moff Tarkin might look like.
This is one of the 56,243 Fan Theories out there....
https://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star-Wars-Theory-Makes-Strong-Case-Snoke-True-Identity-106197.html
-
File Under "Grasping at straws"...
Why moff tarkin ? What did he even do in Episode 4 ?
-
Why moff tarkin ? What did he even do in Episode 4 ?
was so old that he happened to look like an aged Snoke
-
It is all about appearance and tying in with the words of the novel that Snoke was *there* during the rise and fall of the Empire. Not much different than the Plagueis / Vader / Palpatine / Ezra theories. The Tarkin one is just for fun. There's major problems with all the theories.
Personally, I don't need (or want) Snoke to be Vader, Hux to be Tarkin's descendant, BB8 to be adopted by C-3PO and R2-D2, Phasma the lovechild of Etain and Sev, Finn to be Finn Calrissian.
But perhaps Kylo is actually Luke and Leia's kid, thereby explaining why he isn't quite right and his hatred for Han.
-
Ugh. Let me steer the thread back on track...
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/71db4f1d43df7c3a3964d16d171d9cae/tumblr_o2fwh6AoCR1v4s5iuo1_1280.jpg)
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/fcf3b87dadf66f3e126a6f6f806bf378/tumblr_o28mlcwNMQ1v4s5iuo1_1280.jpg)
(https://40.media.tumblr.com/de9700edc7bd2c83a2d33ff264d8482c/tumblr_o17gacqnQI1v4s5iuo1_1280.jpg)
:D
-
But perhaps Kylo is actually Luke and Leia's kid, thereby explaining why he isn't quite right and his hatred for Han.
Open Episode 8 with a flashback to the party on the Endor Moon.....Luke, Leia and Han all naked and wasted in a stick Hut smoking some Endor Thai Sticks.....Chewbacca in the corner with a couple hooker Ewoks...
-
Hooker Ewoks :rollin
-
I think Snoke being Plagueis makes the most sense really. Sure, The Palp said he took his master out in his sleep, but he also said that Plagueis was the only one who learned how to cheat death. Maybe he just barely got out of it alive and used the years to recover, Voldemort-style. Waiting in the shadows for the perfect time to strike, which became clear after the fall of the empire.
-
Plagueis = Snoke is probably the best option if they are going to make Snoke anybody from the previous movies. It would put a nice bow on Ep. 1 through 9. At the same time, too many connections can start to feel hokey.
Now the first reservation is that it kind of negates one of the main arcs of 1 to 6. Anakin bringing balance to the force. However, it could be interesting if Ren's talk of completing what Anakin started is directly related to taking out the last Sith - Snoke/Plagueis. That he talks to Anakin's force ghost. Further, when he is pleading for Vader to show him the dark side, it is more of a disguising method so Snoke doesn't become suspicious.
This is what I mean when I talk about being extremely curious about where this trilogy story line goes. It is really on the edge right now between something truly unique, something generic or something that unravels the whole Star Wars story before it.
-
I agree and I think that's why Snoke being Plagueis would be great. Because it would tie the story together and form a thread running from the prequels to the new films, but still have a character we've only heard mentioned and never seen. If they instead went the route of Snoke being Darth Vader or Tarkin (like some theories say), that would feel forced, because that would take characters we have seen on screen, and just shove them in again for the sake of it.
-
Having vader in Rogue One makes sense as it's in the same period.
Having vader in Episode 8 or 9 would seem like overkill and shoe-horned in.
-
The crazy thing is I love guessing what the next Star Wars movie(s) will bring, but I also want to be wrong. I want to to watch a movie and be taken by almost complete surprise. Almost, because you still want to feel like it all makes sense. Not that they simply did something you didn't see coming, but something that you can't believe you didn't see coming. An "I should have thought of that. It was right there" moment.
There are a few tweaks I think could have made TFA even better, but overall it had way more good than bad. They overdid Rey quite a bit (she sure looks like what I imagine a young Shmi would). I made a joke that Rey is the bad jedi and Ren is the good Jedi because of her British accent, but they really could help Rey's TFA story by making her overconfident and unwilling to *take the hand* of others. I hope those repeated hand rejection moments were foreshadowing and not just a cheap Katy Perry song music video. Real drama could build if Finn has to confront Rey as an adversary.
But then we have to worry about social justice warriors up in arms over making Rey *bad*. Which ironically, is a stab at their own movement.
-
Mother of all teases!
Star Wars: Episode VIII Production Announcement (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQQMLE4FuIQ)
-
Just saw it.
The cameras have been rolling for like 2 days and already there's a teaser. The movie is still TWO years away :lol
It's amazing that we haven't even had a Rogue One trailer yet - a movie which is 10 months away.
-
Mother of all teases!
Star Wars: Episode VIII Production Announcement (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQQMLE4FuIQ)
Holy shit. Oh my god Am I excited
I love Rian Johnson's work, so I am really looking forward to what he brings to the table.
-
Just saw it.
The cameras have been rolling for like 2 days and already there's a teaser. The movie is still TWO years away :lol
It's amazing that we haven't even had a Rogue One trailer yet - a movie which is 10 months away.
I could swear i've seen something but then I remembered that they did show a teaser at Comic-Con but it never went public as fas as I know.
https://vimeo.com/151952481
-
Just saw it.
The cameras have been rolling for like 2 days and already there's a teaser. The movie is still TWO years away :lol
It's amazing that we haven't even had a Rogue One trailer yet - a movie which is 10 months away.
Literally the first thing that popped in my head. Wow. Kind of ridiculous... But uh...whatevs, I get it. It's still stupid.
Sometimes I like hype. The vast majority of the time it's nothing but annoying and ends up being a big downfall for a movie. Granted, with something like this there is zero chance of there not being hype already built up. It's like just the mention of the movie's existence is a perpetual hype builder. Even so...yeah two years away and there being a teaser to say "we're workin' on it" is :facepalm: - worthy.
I'm interested in what Rogue One is going to bring though.
-
" Rian Johnson @rianjohnson 20m20 minutes ago
Day one in the can!
Meaning we finished, not that we filmed it in a toilet. Though I'm not saying we didn't. Ok I should stop typing now. "
haha. :)
-
Yes, when is the trailer for Rogue One due? I read a rumour the other day that Vader would make an appearance, and it would be a more substantial role than just a cameo..
Vader kicking some rebel ass would be very cool indeed. :tup
I wonder what Luke's first dialogue will be in Ep VIII?
"Cool, my old lightsaber! Where did you get it? Er, you didn't happen to find anything attached to it, like, er, my hand??" :lol
-
I wonder what Luke's first dialogue will be in Ep VIII?
"Why's my saber smell like fish?"
-
Yes, when is the trailer for Rogue One due? I read a rumour the other day that Vader would make an appearance, and it would be a more substantial role than just a cameo..
Vader kicking some rebel ass would be very cool indeed. :tup
I wonder what Luke's first dialogue will be in Ep VIII?
"Cool, my old lightsaber! Where did you get it? Er, you didn't happen to find anything attached to it, like, er, my hand??" :lol
I think we'll probably get the first teaser for Rogue One in March or April. Possibly attached to Captain America: Civil War? Would make sense for Disney. Darth Vader will definitely have a big role in it, and it's confirmed that Jones will return to voice him. He will definitely play a part in the film, and considering this was right before A New Hope, it won't be just a cameo.
-
I wonder what Luke's first dialogue will be in Ep VIII?
"Why's my saber smell like fish?"
It took exactly one post, less than two minutes, for things to go towards... the dark side.
-
I wonder what Luke's first dialogue will be in Ep VIII?
"Why's my saber smell like fish?"
It took exactly one post, less than two minutes, for things to go towards... the dark side.
I'm sorry...I can't help myself sometimes, well...most of the time. :(
-
and that is why you fail :angry:
-
Wait, I never sad it was a bad thing. Rey is kinda... I mean, you know, she's been on her own for a while, and...
-
I only saw this once in theaters. It is pretty rare for me to do a repeat viewing in theaters nowadays. But just got the Blu Ray and watched it at home last night. It probably is MORE fun and it is easier to overlook the minor "flaws" in it the second time around. A few comments:
-Ben/Han scene: It is really ambiguous what is going on in Ben's head and what his words to Han really mean. After reading months of theories about it and being able to see the scene again, it is still completely ambiguous, and I like that.
-Han and/or Leia relationship with Rey: It seems pretty apparent that they know something about who she is, Leia especially. It also seems clear (unless this is intentional misdirection) that her origin is important and being intentionally obscured. The flashback of her being left on Jakku so blantantly obscures whoever it is that is leaving her that it has to be characters we are either familiar with or will become familiar with before her origins are more fully revealed. Whether that will be crucial to the overall story arc, I have no idea. But it is interesting.
-Rey/Ben fight: On second viewing, I think Ben's injury and lack of training are all the more apparent, as is Rey's knack for learning quickly. Overall, this fight felt much more believable to me this time around, with the exception of the moment right before it's end where she is like, "oh yeah, the force; let me close my eyes and meditate for a few seconds while our sabers are crossed mere inches from our faces so I can better tap into it. One moment, please." I get that that moment is meant to be more symbolic than realistic, and for that reason, it is important from a storytelling point of view. But it still made me roll my eyes just a bit. But otherwise, I thought the fight was really good.
-Rey finds Luke: Luke's expression is perfect. Completely ambiguous. Notwithstanding lots of Internet exposition about what is going on there and where it will lead us, there are no obvious tells in the scene at all. Also, it is just a very well done scene in general. All that is going on after he turns is she holds the saber out to him and he looks at her. It is not easy to make a scene like that last for more than a split second without something else having to happen. Here, it is drawn out, but still somehow manages to not feel unnatural.
Snoke: Yeah, still not getting how some did not realize right away that he was a hologram.
Ren finds Rey in the woods outside Maz's place: I haven't read or seen anything to confirm this, but it seemed to me that the scene where Rey is in the woods and things suddenly go quiet, only to have Ren appear was meant to be visually similar to the dark side cave scene in Ep. V. When Ren first appeared, I was not sure whether it was real or was a vision. I thought that was yet another cool call-back to the OT, if intentional.
There are still issues with how Starkiller base works, the plan to destroy it being cooked up too quickly, and some other funky timing issues. I mean, it still slightly annoys me that in the span of a few minutes, the story arc went from: Nobody outside the First Order even knows Starkiller base exists -> to everyone knows Starkiller base is what suddenly wiped out all those Resistance outposts -> to we know exactly where it is, that it is recharging to fire again, that it is targeting the base where Leia is, and the exact amount of time until it is ready to fire -> to, on top of all that, we have a plan for how to destroy it within minutes with a small resistance fleet before it can charge up. :lol This could have been handled better. But in the grand scheme of things, those issues are so minor that it really doesn't matter too much. This film was well done.
-
Didn't find the right moment to go and see it in the theaters, then spoilers started to appear, so I said "screw it" and I didn't go to see it. Now with home releases I finally got a chance to watch it, all in all I liked it and it was very fun! Although it seemed like a reunion album of a former super-band... a classic record to make you remember while you liked them back in the day.
I probably won't be the first one to mention this in 21 pages but there's a lot of A New Hope in here. Still, it wasn't something that made me dislike the movie, but it was kinda hard to miss. Now I hope that once they've restabilished the franchise for a new generation, they go all guns blazing on the next one!
Another thing about Kylo Ren... aside the fact that when your grandma is Natalie Portman and when your mum is bikini-version of Carrie Fisher, how the hell can you turn out that average, especially if your father is Indiana Jones, do you think that all this awkardness about him was intentional? He's a Darth Vader wannabe but fails short of it, he's not good looking as pre-volcano Darth Vader, he's not menacing as Darth Vader, and throws lightsaber tantrums. He's the in-movie version of the kid that got famous dancing around with a lightsaber, and probably that was the point they wanted to get across, that he's trying so hard to be a new Darth Vader but fails short of it; he's not yet a full proper villain, he's just one in the making. He could either become way more convinced of himself and evil, or just fall back to the light side, I wonder what his final destiny will be...
-
Another thing about Kylo Ren... aside the fact that when your grandma is Natalie Portman and when your mum is bikini-version of Carrie Fisher, how the hell can you turn out that average, especially if your father is Indiana Jones, do you think that all this awkardness about him was intentional? He's a Darth Vader wannabe but fails short of it, he's not good looking as pre-volcano Darth Vader, he's not menacing as Darth Vader, and throws lightsaber tantrums. He's the in-movie version of the kid that got famous dancing around with a lightsaber, and probably that was the point they wanted to get across, that he's trying so hard to be a new Darth Vader but fails short of it; he's not yet a full proper villain, he's just one in the making. He could either become way more convinced of himself and evil, or just fall back to the light side, I wonder what his final destiny will be...
I love all of that. He is an incredibly interesting villain because of all that. And you know what? I never really thought about this, but everything about Kylo Ren's character that you mentioned sort of "rehabilitates" the image of Vader as a villain that, in the opinions of many, was tarnished by the PT.
-
I never got a chance or the proper interest to watch the Star Wars original trilogy (yeah I'm kinda ashamed to admit it), so I saw the first six movies in story order. I watched the prequels and then the original movies, which were so famous that you all know basically what they were already about.
Coming from the prequels into the originals, I can tell you that they do not connect well. Whatever Anakin's story was in the prequels, the man in the dark armor and the old man in a robe that meet on the Death Star are NOT Obi Wan and Anakin from the prequels. The connection to me just wasn't there, the dialogue of Darth Vader and old Obi Wan was not the kind of dialogue that should have happened after their last meeting on Mustafar. "When I left you I was but an apprentice"... dude, HE left YOU to die a horribly agonizing death after chopping you off three limbs out of four.
They had a point of arrival and couldn't organize the journey to that in a way that, when seen back to back, the connection would look evident. That's for me the major issue with the prequel trilogy..
-
Oh yeah baby, get ready for some jedi training rey, lol
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CftAyCAXIAA3sb9.jpg)
-
Ren finds Rey in the woods outside Maz's place: I haven't read or seen anything to confirm this, but it seemed to me that the scene where Rey is in the woods and things suddenly go quiet, only to have Ren appear was meant to be visually similar to the dark side cave scene in Ep. V. When Ren first appeared, I was not sure whether it was real or was a vision. I thought that was yet another cool call-back to the OT, if intentional.
I definitely think that was intentional. It feels exactly the same, and I had that same moment of not knowing whether it was real or not on the first viewing.
-
Another thing about Kylo Ren... aside the fact that when your grandma is Natalie Portman and when your mum is bikini-version of Carrie Fisher, how the hell can you turn out that average, especially if your father is Indiana Jones
Episode 8: Maury Povich paternity test
But will they test DNA or midichlorians?
-
Guys, I want you all to know that I've changed my mind. I think Daisy Ridley is really cute. I'm sorry; I actually came to this conclusion a long time ago, and I know I should have told you about it way before now, but it seemed like there was never a good time. All the buzz about the new movie, then all the theories, then all the whining, and yeah, I guess I got kinda caught up in all of it. But seriously, she's really cute. There. I said it. I know that now. I was wrong. I feel bad about keeping this from you all this time, but I'm glad it's out in the open now, and I hope that we can get past this, together.
-
Who's got to you?! Yeah, we all know whe's really cute. But badass at the same time. A rare quality in women nowadays. Alas, I must admire her from afar.... :'(
-
No one got to me. I swear, there were no threatening letters; no mysterious phone calls at odd hours with the person on the other end disguising their voice and saying vague, cryptic things that may or may not possibly be construed as related to Star Wars: The Force Awakens and potentially negative thoughts I may have had about its female lead; no anonymous emails with links to some of "those" websites (you know what I'm talking about) seemingly orchestrated and engineered to subtly alter my views and my very taste in females. No, there was none of that. I almost wish there was, or wish I could say that there was, rather. At least I don't think there was. Now... I'm not so sure.
-
What is this mindaltering website sorcery you speak of? :omg:
-
The theory, as I understand it, is that after constantly being exposed to various images, varying widely but in some ways similar, one begins to accept as normal even that which one had previously discounted as outside the norm. Eventually, one often comes to prefer the new norm. Sometimes it is not like that at all; sometimes it is just a matter of changing one's opinion.
For example, suppose that one has always had an aversion to women with a certain hair color or style. There was no logical basis for this; it was merely a matter of taste. That particular color/style simply did not appeal. Then one day, one happens to see a woman with that color/style who is, in all other ways, very attractive. Overall, this woman is attractive (to one (or more, actually, but bear with me because writing like this is really cumbersome)) and one begins to realize that women with this particular hair color/style can indeed be attractive. But clearly this is an exception. Then one happens to stumble across an image on the Internet of another attractive woman with this hair color/style. Now that this paradigm shift is foremost in one's mind, one tends to notice it more. Another, then another. Eventually, one's taste is changed. Women who would previously have been dismissed out of hand ("I do not like that hair color/style") are no longer dismissed, but instead judged on the some bases as all others, perhaps even given an unfair advantage due to association with the recent barrage of positive imagery.
None of that happened.
What actually happened is that throughout the promo/hype phase for Star Wars: The Force Awakens, I thought the girl looked okay, nothing special. There was actually a YouTube video (a funny el cheapo version of the trailer -- I have no idea what it was really called) and the girl in the YouTube video who was supposedly Rey was, I thought, a lot cuter that the real Rey.
But during the course of watching the movie, I began to think "Hey, she's alright" and then eventually "You know, she's actually pretty cute". But I did not stumble across a number of images of Daisy Ridley on the Internet and finally come to the conclusion that she's really cute.
I... um... sought them out. I Googled her (it's okay, I got her consent first) and... damn! Yes, her teeth are too big. She has a big, toothy smile that probably bugs some people. But I came to the conclusion that she's really cute. I mean, several dozen pictures can't be wrong.
Thank you for understanding.
-
For example, suppose that one has always had an aversion to women with a certain hair color or style. There was no logical basis for this; it was merely a matter of taste. That particular color/style simply did not appeal. Then one day, one happens to see a woman with that color/style who is, in all other ways, very attractive. Overall, this woman is attractive (to one (or more, actually, but bear with me because writing like this is really cumbersome)) and one begins to realize that women with this particular hair color/style can indeed be attractive. But clearly this is an exception. Then one happens to stumble across an image on the Internet of another attractive woman with this hair color/style. Now that this paradigm shift is foremost in one's mind, one tends to notice it more. Another, then another. Eventually, one's taste is changed. Women who would previously have been dismissed out of hand ("I do not like that hair color/style") are no longer dismissed, but instead judged on the some bases as all others, perhaps even given an unfair advantage due to association with the recent barrage of positive imagery.
Well, I never disliked redheads before, but I started to like them an evening at a festival where all girls I noticed (well, actually just three) were redheads. From now on, this previously blonde lover turned to gingers!
And now back to our scheduled Star Wars discussion, sorry for the intrusion.
-
That is exactly what I'm talking about. A positive experience, or several positive experiences, can completely change your view.
And you don't have to apologize for a non-sequitor, not around here. Heck, my last three posts have been entirely constructed to be bizarre and only tangentially related to the topic at hand (as opposed to the rest of the time when it happens more-or-less naturally).
Remember: the only thing more confusing than Orbert off his meds is Orbert on his meds!
-
Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*
-
I was thinking - why does Rey have to be related to anyone we've seen before ?
Why can't she be a totally new character who's not a Solo / Organa / Skywalker / Whoever ?
Does everything have to be linked in the SW universe ?
She probably is Luke's daughter but i'd prefer it if she wasn't related to anyone from the previous 6 films.
-
Honestly at this point I doubt she's related to anyone from the OT. Luke ran a Jedi school of sorts, I assume she's the sole survivor of that school. So he knows her, but they're not related.
Watch her be Snoke's kid or something.
-
The folks who know what they are doing over at Disney have said that Star Wars (the episodes) will continue to be the Skywalker story even in the future, which makes Rey being Luke's daughter logical since it would carry forward the story and still keep a Skywalker in the center. Everybody doesn't have to be related, but personally I would be disappointed if Rey wasn't a Skywalker.
-
Next Maz Kanata will be a relative of Yoda.
-
I think they should make Fin the son of Lando.
And make Star Wars the story of the Calrissian family.
You know you want it.
They can even go back and retcon the prequel trilogy to be about them too.
-
The force is strong with her. Also I read comments from the filmmakers that the revelation about who she is is important not only for her, but for the entire saga (or something along those lines).
I'm with the "She's a Skywalker" camp, but she could be as well the true or new chosen one, that will definitively bring balance to the force. Maybe she's an "immaculate conception" as well like Anakin was.
-
Rey is obviously a cyborg that C-3PO built. How do I know this. The red arm. It's all there in broad daylight.
-
Her full name is C-Rey-PO
-
Darth Reyder.
-
Her full name is C-Rey-PO
Close
C-Rey-BO
-
Her full name is C-Rey-PO
Close
C-Rey-BO
C Rey B8
She is the robot love child of C3P0 and BB8 who had a civil Bot-nership.
-
I'm not going to make a firm decision on how I feel on what Rey's lineage turns out to be. It can turn either way and be good or bad simply depending on the effort and presentation put into it.
Maybe she has absolutely no ties to the first 6 episodes other than being a force user. It can work. But I wouldn't compare her possible Skywalker/Palpatine/Snoke/Kenobi/other lineage isn't the same as C-3PO-Vader connection or Maz-Yoda. That feels forced. The Skywalker story makes Star Wars a story as opposed to a bunch of pew pew episodes.
-
Her full name is C-Rey-PO
Close
C-Rey-BO
C Rey B8
She is the robot love child of C3P0 and BB8 who had a civil Bot-nership.
Using today's slang..
Beh Rey.
-
Using today's slang..
Beh Rey.
How did Australian Petrucci make it into this discussion.
-
For example, suppose that one has always had an aversion to women with a certain hair color or style. There was no logical basis for this; it was merely a matter of taste. That particular color/style simply did not appeal. Then one day, one happens to see a woman with that color/style who is, in all other ways, very attractive. Overall, this woman is attractive (to one (or more, actually, but bear with me because writing like this is really cumbersome)) and one begins to realize that women with this particular hair color/style can indeed be attractive. But clearly this is an exception. Then one happens to stumble across an image on the Internet of another attractive woman with this hair color/style. Now that this paradigm shift is foremost in one's mind, one tends to notice it more. Another, then another. Eventually, one's taste is changed. Women who would previously have been dismissed out of hand ("I do not like that hair color/style") are no longer dismissed, but instead judged on the some bases as all others, perhaps even given an unfair advantage due to association with the recent barrage of positive imagery.
Well, I never disliked redheads before, but I started to like them an evening at a festival where all girls I noticed (well, actually just three) were redheads. From now on, this previously blonde lover turned to gingers!
And now back to our scheduled Star Wars discussion, sorry for the intrusion.
Think I get what you mean. I remember being in my twenties going "I'm a blond woman guy". Then I had some, let's call it 'mind altering experiences' with very attractive redheads, brunettes and dark/black haired women. After that it was like 'who am I to narrow my viewpoint in life like this'. The world became a whole lot of a better place after that.
-
Apparently Daisy Ridley said that she knows who Rey's parents are, and it isn't that important.
*shrugs*
-
If it doesn't affect the story then it doesn't matter.
Are people going to enjoy episodes 8&9 less if shes not a
Skywalker??
-
Apparently Daisy Ridley said that she knows who Rey's parents are, and it isn't that important.
*shrugs*
I read that, but I don't buy it. Maybe she's trying to downplay it for various reasons, or maybe she doesn't know the full extent of the payoff. Or maybe she's just become indifferent to it.
TFA made a big enough deal of her backstory that I can't see it not being important. Everything is important to SW fans! :lol
-
I really don't care who Rey's parents are, but I honestly think it could be more interesting if she WASN'T a Skywalker.
-
I really don't care who Rey's parents are, but I honestly think it could be more interesting if she WASN'T a Skywalker.
Exactly right.
-
I really don't care who Rey's parents are, but I honestly think it could be more interesting if she WASN'T a Skywalker.
Exactly right.
+1. Surely there is some other family out there that can do Force-y things.
-
Yeah, but the Saga is a Skywalker family storyline. I would be disappointed IF she wasn't a Skywalker.
-
Yeah, but the Saga is a Skywalker family storyline. I would be disappointed IF she wasn't a Skywalker.
Luke, Leia, and Kylo Ren are all still in play, though, at the moment. That seems like plenty of Skywalker.
-
As far as the name "Skywalker" is concerned, I don't find it critical for Rey's background. Yoda himself said or implied that Leia was another hope as being a Skywalker. But apart from having heart spasms when something bad happens, I haven't seen much indication that she is that powerful in the force.
That said, my first guess is she is Luke's kid. My theory is Kylo went bad so Luke wanted to quick spread his seed and go into hiding until the time was right. But, she could be unrelated to Skywalker and I'd be fine. In George Lucas' world, the Skywalker's are only strong in the force anyway because of Anakin's mother's immaculate conception from the magical midi-chlorians.
Apologies if this theory has already been thrown out there. I haven't read this whole thread.
-
Yeah, but the Saga is a Skywalker family storyline. I would be disappointed IF she wasn't a Skywalker.
I agree. It's a cool story and it's only fitting to keep it Skywalker. No need to reinvent the wheel or complicate the story. Rey being a Skywalker won't be a let down, but if she isn't I'd construe that as being a let down of sorts being that it's breaking away from the underlying Skywalker lineage that comprises the whole SW story....
-
Yeah, but the Saga is a Skywalker family storyline. I would be disappointed IF she wasn't a Skywalker.
Luke, Leia, and Kylo Ren are all still in play, though, at the moment. That seems like plenty of Skywalker.
Leia will most likely die in 8 and Luke in 9 (they can't keep playing their roles for much longer anyways) and that leaves us with Kylo. Maybe he dies, maybe he redeems himself, but I want someone good in the Skywalker family to root for going forward, and Kylo Ren is never gonna be that character after what he did to Han Solo.
-
and Kylo Ren is never gonna be that character after what he did to Han Solo.
What if he were to be the one who defeated Emperor Snoke? Say...reminiscent of Vadar turning on the Emperor? If the story were developed more and we watched him continue to evolve into 'going good'.
-
While I understood and was ok with the copied elements of TFA, I really don't want too many more obvious parallels to the OT with the new trilogy. I'd like Rey's backstory to be a bit less obvious, and I don't want all of the character dynamics to play out the same.
-
While I understood and was ok with the copied elements of TFA, I really don't want too many more obvious parallels to the OT with the new trilogy. I'd like Rey's backstory to be a bit less obvious, and I don't want all of the character dynamics to play out the same.
Maybe Ren defeats and kills Snoke in a grab for ultimate power (on the Dark side) and then he's defeated by Rey or Luke? I like the idea of having Rey be the 'next' badass Jedi and all but I'd also like to see them not go down the obvious road and kill him off to give way to Rey. Keep him alive....have him be THE Jedi Master.....one of lore and legend.....let him grow old and be virtually undefeatable.
-
While I understood and was ok with the copied elements of TFA, I really don't want too many more obvious parallels to the OT with the new trilogy. I'd like Rey's backstory to be a bit less obvious, and I don't want all of the character dynamics to play out the same.
BUT. Even if they totally re-created the Original Trilogy - it still would be better than the Prequels :biggrin: :corn
I don't think that Episode 8 will be The Empire Strikes Back verbatim. It worked once. I can't see them just doing that again.
Force Awakens to me was like " The franchise is back in safe hands and as you remember it " and 8 & 9 will go in their own direction.
-
Yeah, The Force Awakens is A Dramatic Turn of Events. "Hey people, we're still what you remember". The next one(s) hopefully will be... astonishing!
-
While I understood and was ok with the copied elements of TFA, I really don't want too many more obvious parallels to the OT with the new trilogy. I'd like Rey's backstory to be a bit less obvious, and I don't want all of the character dynamics to play out the same.
I get that. But for me, I prefer to try to not let myself develop preconceived notions about what I would prefer. At the end of the day, I only care about whether it is done well and works overall in the context of the story. If someone had told me just the sheer number of OT callbacks in TFA, or even gone further and gave me a bullet point list, I might very well have formed preconceptions that it was way too much, that TFA would not be original, and that it would be too heavily reliant on nostalgia instead of having a strong story in its own right. But actually seeing it all in context in TFA, not only am I okay with the call-backs; I think they make the movie/story stronger. I don't want to short change the story going forward by drawing lines and saying, "if they go this far, that's fine, but if they go that far, it's too much." Know what I mean?
-
While I understood and was ok with the copied elements of TFA, I really don't want too many more obvious parallels to the OT with the new trilogy. I'd like Rey's backstory to be a bit less obvious, and I don't want all of the character dynamics to play out the same.
I get that. But for me, I prefer to try to not let myself develop preconceived notions about what I would prefer. At the end of the day, I only care about whether it is done well and works overall in the context of the story. If someone had told me just the sheer number of OT callbacks in TFA, or even gone further and gave me a bullet point list, I might very well have formed preconceptions that it was way too much, that TFA would not be original, and that it would be too heavily reliant on nostalgia instead of having a strong story in its own right. But actually seeing it all in context in TFA, not only am I okay with the call-backs; I think they make the movie/story stronger. I don't want to short change the story going forward by drawing lines and saying, "if they go this far, that's fine, but if they go that far, it's too much." Know what I mean?
I get exactly what you mean, and for the most part I very much agree. I thought TFA was great, but I do think in the long run they really need to come up with their own ideas so it doesn't eventually get stale, and that goes for designs too (which were basically all Ralph McQuarrie leftovers).
It's not a checklist of "do this, don't do that", just preferences based on what we've seen so far. They could do the complete opposite, and as long as the end result is good, I'm not going to complain about it (much :P ).
-
Yeah, The Force Awakens is A Dramatic Turn of Events. "Hey people, we're still what you remember". The next one(s) hopefully will be... astonishing!
I really really don't hope this is the pattern of quality we'll get.
-
Yeah, The Force Awakens is A Dramatic Turn of Events. "Hey people, we're still what you remember". The next one(s) hopefully will be... astonishing!
I really really don't hope this is the pattern of quality we'll get.
You mean so Star Wars Fans won't claim Episode 8 (DT12) was better than it was, only to later admit it was the worst of the tree when Episode 9 (Astonishing) comes out?
Bad 2nd acts in a movie are less forgiving though.
Ralph McQuarrie leftovers
This was both good and bad. It was good that it helped tie in the in-universe feel. It was bad that so little was done to the X-Wing and TIEs. Some color changes? Better than nothing, but not much.
Further, the X-Wing and TIE atmosphere attacks were a bit lazy. ESB handled this much better. We didn't see X-Wing v. TIE on Hoth. We saw Snowspeeder v. AT-AT. I've always considered space the equivalent to the NAVY and the atmosphere the "beachhead". You don't run the ships up on land. You bring in tanks, artillery, etc. They did this in ESB and the Prequels much better.
Now the good (visually): Kylo's lightsaber. Same saber concept, but a new exploration that matched the character. Stormtrooper armor. You would expect some changes. And just like WW1 to modern ground combat, the armor/weapons/uniform do tend to become more streamlined. Didn't see much new tech though. BB8. New droid design is always welcome. Aliens. Using old designs is a must. We don't want to see evolution happen in such a short span. New species are good, but the existing species should look no different in such a tight time span.
The good (audio) Ben Burtt sounds were great for that in universe feel. The TIE scream is probably the most iconic Star Wars vehicle sound. Nothing says Star Wars like the TIE engine scream.
Plot
Obviously this matters. Love talking about it. My only one true safety is they cannot crap all over the Ep. 1 to 6 arc. Expand it. Make us look at previous scenes differently. But don't make us feel Ep. 1 to 6 has become virtually pointless if watched again. I love Boba Fett, but he died in the Sarlaac Pit. I love Darth Maul, but there was no need to bring him back. I'll deal with it, but I prefer it didn't happen. And please don't give me Han Solo ghost in Ep. 8 or 9.
-
Yeah, The Force Awakens is A Dramatic Turn of Events. "Hey people, we're still what you remember". The next one(s) hopefully will be... astonishing!
I really really don't hope this is the pattern of quality we'll get.
You mean so Star Wars Fans won't claim Episode 8 (DT12) was better than it was, only to later admit it was the worst of the tree when Episode 9 (Astonishing) comes out?
I mean so that both Episode 8 and 9 won't both suck.
-
So yeah, I'm a tad bit slow picking up on things at times. It took me till the 3rd viewing to notice Luke was standing over what looks like a grave. Who's grave though? It looks old, but my first thought would be the presumed Mother of Rey. Or...is that not a grave at all....
-
Or...is that not a grave at all....
For some reason, I'm just not hung up on this detail. Is it a grave? If it is, whose is it?
On that front, it can turn out to be nothing more than a rock or it can turn out to be Rey's mother. It has never interested me that deeply though.
-
For some reason, I'm just not hung up on this detail. Is it a grave? If it is, whose is it?
On that front, it can turn out to be nothing more than a rock or it can turn out to be Rey's mother. It has never interested me that deeply though.
Well, if it IS a grave, then it must have some significance right? Otherwise why show it at all?
-
I'm just saying that for some reason, it doesn't spark a lot of interest from me.
If it is Luke's wife and Rey's mother, is it going to provide anything more than "oh, so Luke had sex and a baby was the result." That's just exposition. I'm having a hard time getting much from it. And if it becomes some crazy explanation that makes Rey's mother the most important character ever, does that feel over the top?
So I'm just not expecting much from it. Maybe it is just a grave to symbolize his lost Jedi students.
As far as that is concerned, I have more fun speculating on the Jedi temple slaughter. Maybe it was more than just Ren that turned on him. Maybe it was a full on mutiny and Luke was the one that had to cut them all down.
-
Maybe it was a full on mutiny and Luke was the one that had to cut them all down.
Now..wouldn't THAT be a twist!
-
If it is Luke's wife and Rey's mother, is it going to provide anything more than "oh, so Luke had sex and a baby was the result." That's just exposition. I'm having a hard time getting much from it. And if it becomes some crazy explanation that makes Rey's mother the most important character ever, does that feel over the top?
Why does it have to be a crazy explanation in order to "provide" something useful? Perhaps all it provides is emotional gravitas for the relationship between Luke and this person, whoever it is (assuming for argument's sake that it is a grave). Isn't that significant enough?
-
Calvin, I've never seen someone over analyze every aspect in life like you do. How the hell do you ever enjoy anything especially life?!
-
If it is Luke's wife and Rey's mother, is it going to provide anything more than "oh, so Luke had sex and a baby was the result." That's just exposition. I'm having a hard time getting much from it. And if it becomes some crazy explanation that makes Rey's mother the most important character ever, does that feel over the top?
Why does it have to be a crazy explanation in order to "provide" something useful? Perhaps all it provides is emotional gravitas for the relationship between Luke and this person, whoever it is (assuming for argument's sake that it is a grave). Isn't that significant enough?
I implied it would be over the top, not something useful. Simple exposition is the most likely that will come of the possible grave.
Luke: This was my wife. We came here to find the Jedi Powah, but while performing the Iron Lotus I accidentally beheaded her.
Rey: Maybe I can pull it off.
Luke: Let's do it. Not *it*. I have to say that because I've been known to have a thing for incest. Oops. BTW, I'm your father.
-
Calvin, I've never seen someone over analyze every aspect in life like you do. How the hell do you ever enjoy anything especially life?!
It isn't like it takes much effort, nor something that needs to be turned on. The typing is more effort.
And if I enjoy something (like Star Wars), it is quite fun.
Small talk feels like effort.
-
That's not my point. I feel you miss out when you mind spins a 1000 different ways.
-
Well, this is a Star Wars thread first and foremost. So talking about Star Wars in a Star Wars thread seems pretty focused. I'm not really sure what I'm missing out on by not shutting down creativity.
-
Preconceptions for future movies, ( and I've seen a ton from you all ready) will have an impact to York viewing pleasure when the other movies come out.
It's just that some of your theories and worries seem a bit "out there".
-
It's just that some of your theories and worries seem a bit "out there".
Some are meant to be. Some aren't serious. All are fun.
-
You are the master of the straight Internet face then. :lol
-
You are the master of the straight Internet face then. :lol
I'm pretty good at it in person too.
-
That's not my point. I feel you miss out when you mind spins a 1000 different ways.
Everyone has a different way of seeing the world. In Myers Briggs terms, I'm N (intuition), so am interested in the big picture, how a movie feels, whether it lets me use my own imagination. Whereas someone who is a Myers Briggs S (Sensing), which may include Calvin (only a guess), get more from exploring all the little details. S-types are more likely to really hate plot holes or continuity errors, whereas N-types are less likely to mind them unless they're really glaring.
No approach is better than the other, just different.
-
I'm not talking durring the movie Rich. I've seen too many people ruin films before they are out. Their anticipation of what they think the movie should go killed the movie for them.
Go with an open mind then let the imagination go while you're watching the film.
-
According to JJ Abrams, Rey's parents were not in Episode 7.
So chew on that.
-
According to JJ Abrams, Rey's parents were not in Episode 7.
So chew on that.
Knowing JJ, it also wouldn't surprise me if that was BS or some kind of semantics where a parent appeared in Ep 7, but not both her parents.
It would also fit with one of the theories that she's a Kenobi somehow. Or it means she could be a female clone of Darth Vader!
-
Darth Rey-dar !
A name so terrible that George Lucas probably thought of it !
-
JJ clarifies that statement. He said he misspoke. What he meant is that it wasn't REVEALED in episode 7 who her parents were.
https://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/15/star-wars-force-awakens-jj-abrams-rey-parents
-
So we're back to square one, because now it's impossible to know whether he screwed up and started backtracking, or if he really did misspeak.
-
JJ should just keep quiet on that type of stuff. He got to have fun with his movie, now let the next two have fun with theirs.
-
Darth Rey-dar !
A name so terrible that George Lucas probably thought of it !
Darth Reyder.
;D
-
:getoffmylawn:
-
JJ clarifies that statement. He said he misspoke. What he meant is that it wasn't REVEALED in episode 7 who her parents were.
https://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/15/star-wars-force-awakens-jj-abrams-rey-parents
Well, then, that's just stupid. He never should have said anything at all.
-
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that Rey's parents weren't revealed. I mean, other than the entire Internet talking about it.