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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: JediKnight1969 on September 24, 2015, 09:47:02 AM
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Letīs try this experiment (inspired by a post by BlobVanDam).
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Very strong, for me.
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Decent. If it wasn't for IT and StR I would rank it much lower but those two songs are enough to elevate it to decent.
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Decent. If it wasn't for IT and StR I would rank it much lower but those two songs are enough to elevate it to decent.
While I think it's "Instant Classic" and one of my favorite albums, I do agree that those 2 songs are the best ones. TBP is very close to them in my opinion, then TLG, TEI, BTV, FAS, AFTR and EM in that order.
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Same thoughts I had since the album has been released. It's a very strong album with some pretty great songs. Favorites are still Illumination Theory, The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason, and The Looking Glass.
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Very strong. The Bigger Picture is a top ten DT song and Illumination Theory is top 20.
I'm just not quite there for "classic." I don't know why. But it's between those two for me.
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Very strong....almost went with classic, but it's just not *quite* on the same tier as the biggies. But it's really close.
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i haven't listened to this since 2013
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Didn't vote cause none of the options really correlate closely enough with how I feel about the album.
I'd go somewhere in between "decent" and "very strong". I'll admit, the album has worn off a bit of its initial luster but that doesn't mean I don't get a lot of enjoyment out of it still. TBP and BTV are modern DT classics as far as I'm concerned, with IT another great epic to their catalog. It's flawed, but what DT album isn't? (ok, scratch that cause I can hear the retorts being typed out as I speak, but you get the idea).
It's not amazing or a game-changing record in their discography, but it doesn't have to be. To me it's just another great album that they put out that just so happened to be their strongest for quite some time.
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i haven't listened to this since 2013
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It's been 2 years since it's release?? :O What am I doing with my life!!
Don't think i've listened to the album at all in over a year, just no particular urge to. Songs like Enemy Inside and Illumination Theory i've heard plenty from bootlegs and Breaking the Fourth Wall but can't say i'm particularly fussed about hearing the rest of the album...it's just meh..
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Worst DT album.
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I chose Very Strong.
The Bigger Picture is simply one of the best DT songs ever written. It's heavy, it has amazing melodies, it's light, it's emotional. I think JP said it is about the process of writing songs. Well, thats a pretty bland subject but the lyrics are so beautifully worded that it can be about so much more than that.
IT is a great epic that once again, is a very diverse song in terms of moods.
Along for the Ride is just amazing. I think this song is LIGHT YEARS ahead of The Spirit Carries On. (Please don't shoot me).
I'm not a big fan of instrumentals but as far as they go, Enigma Machine is very strong.
Surrender to Reason and Behind the Veil are pretty good. They're not "go to" songs but I enjoy listening to them as I let them album play.
False Awakening Suite doesn't do much for me. It's definitely not any worse than than Overture from 6DOIT, I just don't dig it.
The Looking Glass is so-so. Theres nothing wrong with it but I have never had the desire to listen to it.
The Enemy Inside is their weakest song on the album and sure enough was their lead single. Blah. Hate how that happens.
Overall, three amazing songs, two very good songs, one good one, one so-so song, one that I don't dig, and one that I really don't like.
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Probably my favorite DT album.
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I think JP said it is about the process of writing songs.
I remember reading this on here before and I just can't see how the lyrics could be about that at all. It just seems to be much deeper. Maybe he should write more songs about the writing process if this is the result.
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I think JP said it is about the process of writing songs.
I remember reading this on here before and I just can't see how the lyrics could be about that at all. It just seems to be much deeper. Maybe he should write more songs about the writing process if this is the result.
On one hand I agree but on the other, Wither was the result of his other song about the writing process and I know I'm in the minority, but I don't want more songs like that. More songs like The Bigger Picture? Yes, please.
But this just shows what a great lyricist JP is. Endless Sacrifice's message is basically, "I miss my wife" yet the lyrics are so beautifully worded that it could be about a bunch of different things.
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I'll go with Very Strong. I don't throw around the word "classic" lightly - an album would have to rate 95-100% for that tag and there's really only I&W that's in that realm for me. But that is a classic of classics - all time top 3 album from anyone.
DT12 is a top 3 or 4 DT album for me
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On one hand I agree but on the other, Wither was the result of his other song about the writing process and I know I'm in the minority, but I don't want more songs like that. More songs like The Bigger Picture? Yes, please.
I do like Wither, but it's not in the same league as TBP. It's pretty easy to see what Wither is about, but TBP could be about a lot of things, and I would have never guessed that the subject he chose was the writing process.
But this just shows what a great lyricist JP is. Endless Sacrifice's message is basically, "I miss my wife" yet the lyrics are so beautifully worded that it could be about a bunch of different things.
I was just listening to that song today. It could definitely be about other things, but I'd say it's a lot more obvious to understand his original intent than TBP.
And I've seen people say he's not a good lyricist. Crazy!
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I found DT12 decent, better than SC and Black Clouds at least.
I much prefer ADTOE over it though.
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Still my second favorite DT album behind Awake. I especially love how the short song format made this a very good listen for long commutes. I commute 1.5 - 2 hours to work everyday. Then another 1.5 - 2 hours going home.
Excited with what they would come up next.
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Letīs try this experiment (inspired by a post by BlobVanDam).
I'm an inspiration! :neverusethis:
I voted for disappointing, as it's an album with nothing I want to come back to at this point, and I'd probably rank it 2nd last only ahead of WDADU.
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Meh, for me. Forgettable and uninspired.
But maybe it's too soon. I might come back to it in 3 years and discover I like it. It happens.
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Very strong, can't be a classic because it's not yet old enough :laugh:. But I think it will stay in the very strong category. It's not up there with I&W or SFAM for me but I still like it a lot. While ADTOE hasn't aged that well for me (still like it but it's worn of some of its charme) DT12 still delivers. And Illumination Theory could be top ten material for me.
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I went with Meh.
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Somewhere between decent and meh I think. I'm probably judging it a bit harshly due to how much I loved ADTOE and how I'm not too keen on the shorter song format for most of the album. IT is awesome and TEI is great, but there are some missed opportunities with the other songs I think.
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I voted very strong, which is what I think I voted when it came out. Not their best, but really good!
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I went with Meh.
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I voted for disappointing, as it's an album with nothing I want to come back to at this point, and I'd probably rank it 2nd last only ahead of WDADU.
Exactly this.
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It's a decent album. I still listen to it every once in a while. I love the opening two tracks, an The Looking Glass is pretty good, too. The album kinda loses me after that. I like the rest of the tracks, but it takes me all the way to the middle of Illumination Theory to get excited about it again. It just kinda keeps going and I zone out for most of it. I think I'd rather listen to one of their other albums.
But I don't think I'd rate any of their albums lower than decent. They don't have a "Meh" or "Disappointing" album in their discography. There's something to love about all their albums IMO.
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For me it's still very strong. It's by far the closest thing they've made to a classic album since Six Degrees. I can't really exlain why I feel that way though. There's just something about it that really clicks with me.
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I almost never listen to it any more. I voted decent because it just seemed to be in that not great / not bad zone.
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Very Strong, like mentioned before, something has to be really amazing for it to be called instant classic, and I mean on a 'I&W' level.
Illumination Theory and The Enemy Inside are probably my faves, followed by The Looking Glass, Behind The Veil and False Awakening Suite.
The only meh track on this album is The Bigger Picture imo.
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Wow, I'm more surprised that it's been a whole two years. Time flies.
But yeah, decent. I think it just got old fast and there really wasn't much to latch on to. Over time I was able to appreciate it for what it is, but I can never shake the feeling that it could've been much better.
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Well... Let's see:
First thoughts vs current ones:
Instant classic: 27,40 % vs 10,10 %
Very strong: 46,10 % vs 36 %
Decent: 14,30 % vs 23,60 %
Meh: 6,10 % vs 18 %
Disappointing: 6,10 % vs 12,40 %
Definitely not a "grower".
Thanks to all who participate in this experiment.
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2 years ago : Very strong
Today : Instant classic
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2 years ago : Very strong
Today : Instant classic
You know "instant" doesn't mean "after two years" right?
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2 years ago : Very strong
Today : Instant classic
You know "instant" doesn't mean "after two years" right?
Holy crap, in the age of "Twitter" and what not, "two years" might as well be "infinity".
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I liked it initially -although I think the closing "epic" is, um, not their finest hour.
2 years later, though, my hope is their next one is more in line with ADTOE, musically. I could do without the dull production values of ADTOE, but musically it's fantastic. DT12 reminds me somewhat of Falling Into Infinity. A more commercial sounding album with less complex song structures and a bit more focus on melody, which, unfortunately falls a little flat for me.
The thing is, I don't listen to Dream Theater for commercial-sounding music. I listen to them for precisely the opposite reason. DT12 is not a bad album, per se. "Illumination Theory" is just...sorry but to me it comes off as totally phoned in. In fact, the entire album strikes me that way. Like they didn't try very hard to craft these tracks. They can spin it all they want and call it "stripped down" or whatever. I call it lazy. Dream Theater can do much better than DT12 and I still think they have another album like 6DOIT or SFAM - experimental, aggressive and beautiful, complex and intricate, with bone-crushing riffs, jaw-dropping virtuosity and precision. I know they've got one more like that in them.
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2 years ago : instant classic.
Today : Meh.
And Falling Into Infinity is much better than DT12 on almost every level.
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DT12 reminds me somewhat of Falling Into Infinity. A more commercial sounding album with less complex song structures and a bit more focus on melody, which, unfortunately falls a little flat for me.
Almost exactly how I feel. But I found much more to like in FII. Never quite found a single song on DT12 that felt like a classic. It feels like DT homogenized.
But at the same time, I never felt like it was bad. Illumination Theory had some really great stuff in it. But the parts are greater than the whole. The Enemy Inside is a good "pulse elevating" song, but nothing extraordinary. The rest, I almost can't even hear in my head when song titles are mentioned, and I listened to ADToE and DT12 much more upfront than the previous 3 albums. If I had any bias going in, it was to find something to like. With that in mind, I went from telling myself I liked it to admitting to myself that maybe it will never grow on me. But that took a few months, not the full two years.
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Falling Into Infinity has almost flawless production with actual seperation between instruments. The "epic" is way better and the ballads are just FAR better.
FII has Lines In The Sand - one of the best DT songs ever and Hell's Kitchen which is better than BOTH Instrumentals on DT12.
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FII has more highs overall, but a lot more lows as well.
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FII has more highs overall, but a lot more lows as well.
I agree.
FII may be the better album (debatable), but IMO DT12 is definitely more consistent.
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FII may be the better album (debatable), but IMO DT12 is definitely more consistent.
Yeah. Homogenized.
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That seems to be the word of the day.
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FII may be the better album (debatable), but IMO DT12 is definitely more consistent.
Yeah. Homogenized.
Opinions vary.
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FII may be the better album (debatable), but IMO DT12 is definitely more consistent.
Yeah. Homogenized.
Opinions vary.
Of course. But we are agreeing that DT12 is homogenized. :angel:
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Disappointing. It's extremely forgetable.
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Two Years ago I said "Very strong"
Two years later I'll say "decent"
While there are many good songs, it's not really a "memorable" album per se IMO.
The Bigger Picture is my favorite, closely followed by Illumination Theory (aside from the meandering, boring and quite simply, waste of time in the middle).
I also really like Surrender To Reason, Behind The Veil and The Looking Glass.
The others aren't bad, but nothing about any of them really strikes me with excitement when i hear them.
I'd give the album a solid "B" and rate it only ahead of Systematic Chaos in the catalog.
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I am one of those who always enjoyed the newer Dream Theater albums, but this one, nope. I like Enemy Inside somewhat, but only reason for it to not be very dissapointing is IT and TBP.
The sound is so "gray" / dull / uninspired. I feel no joy. I think IT on BTFW was much better than the album version actually. It's somehow not alive on the studio version, something I never had problem with on previous Dream Theater albums.
Also songs like Enigma Machine is really just feeding the "Dream Theater is only technical" trolls. Because I agree. Enigma Machine is probably super fun to play but is just so technical, but that's all there is to the song for me.
This album make me worried for future albums. More "vers1, chorus, vers2, chorus, bridge, final chorus"-songs will just not keep me very interested anymore and please fix the sound! :(
Edit: Had to listen to TBP and it's really good! Still with improved sound this could have been a all time favorite!
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The sound is so "gray" / dull / uninspired. I feel no joy. I think IT on BTFW was much better than the album version actually. It's somehow not alive on the studio version, something I never had problem with on previous Dream Theater albums.
To me, this is a result of the mix. Listen to James' vocals on TBP and IT. I hear a lot of emotion. Then again, that could be why you said those were your favorites...but those aren't the only songs like that, just the most obvious. There's still lots of passion left, it's just the bad mix that makes it hard to really hear.
Also songs like Enigma Machine is really just feeding the "Dream Theater is only technical" trolls. Because I agree. Enigma Machine is probably super fun to play but is just so technical, but that's all there is to the song for me.
I mean, it's not my favorite DT instrumental but I'm surprised that you say it's too technical. Compared to TDOE for example this sounds much simpler and more melodic. The solos are pretty technical, but I mean the song as a whole.
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As I stated elsewhere, what buggers me is the non-replay value of DT12. 2 years after, i would say it's only a decent album (but, man, TBP is astounding!).
B.Lee
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..the parts are greater than the whole.
Nailed it.
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Almost exactly how I feel. But I found much more to like in FII.
Yep. I legitimately haven't listened to DT all the way through since I first bought it, it just can't keep me interested.
Now the same is true for FII, but I go back to certain songs on FII much more often. Specifically Hells Kitchen + Lines in the Sand and Trial of Tears. Those songs are some of my favorites in the Dream Theater catalogue. Not to mention the fact that FII has a sonic quality to it that is leagues and bounds beyond what is found in DT.
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Decent effort.
While i like the focus on "simpler" (by DT-standarts) songwriting and melody, i find the production (especially the drum sound) awful.
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While i like the focus on "simpler" (by DT-standarts) songwriting and melody
I like the tightening up of songwriting, but it also kind of shows the weakness of DT. Commercial song arrangements are usually simpler mainly because there is an extremely strong hook and making the song too long dilutes and takes away the focus of that. My main problem with prog is the long songs are kind of a substitution or crutch that hides the lack of legitimate hooks.
I'll give too examples of DT12 on hooks.
I liked The Enemy Inside immediately. To me, the opening pre-vocal intro is the hook and everything (except the bridge) just strongly upholds that hook. It is concise and has a very direct musical style and theme. Really good songwriting (although DT fans don't seem to like this song as much)
I also liked parts of Illumination Theory quite a bit. But the larger concept took away from what could have been strong hooks that stood on their own. Live, Die, Kill could have been a Top 20 song for me on its own. And the Pursuit of Truth had a good hook, but less developed than Live, Die, Kill. So two strong hooks that could have been used to create two more concise, hook driven songs ... weren't.
The rest of the album is kind of not great, not bad for me. Nothing that would even come close to a Top 30 or maybe even Top 50 DT song for me. And I feel it is because they really didn't have a strong hook. They might have had hooks, but not very strong ones.
And yes, a hook is subjective. It isn't like there is a definition that can guarantee parts of songs are universally accepted as a strong hook and others have no hooks. Ultimately, I blame the vocalist as they are usually the songwriter in a band that creates the hook. JP is the main songwriter (by a wide margin it seems), so the hooks are almost always the guitar over the melody. I kind of feel like if DT forced themselves to write the melodies first (not all the time, just mix it in), they'd create a new instant classic.
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In terms of DT albums it's probably closer to "Meh", but that feels a bit harsh since so I went with Decent.
A few songs are very good and all of them have some merit, but I wasn't blown away when it was first released, and after a year or so I was rarely inclined to listen to it. I sometimes even found myself forgetting about it briefly and thinking of ADTOE as the last new DT album before remembering a second later "Oh, wait, DT12 was released after that". So I would have to say it was pretty forgettable and didn't have that much of an impact.
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Although I now like this album more than I did upon release (and also after hearing some of the songs live), I'm still very much disappointed with DT12. It's one of my least favorite DT albums. I'm really hoping DT13 does it for me.
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Decent. It's been a while since I've listened to like half of the album.
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I kind of feel like if DT forced themselves to write the melodies first (not all the time, just mix it in), they'd create a new instant classic.
Along for the Ride says hi. I think... JP described that being written with lyrics first so I presume some kind of melody might have been considered before the instrumentation was written?
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I kind of feel like if DT forced themselves to write the melodies first (not all the time, just mix it in), they'd create a new instant classic.
The thing is, how do we know that DT weren't considering the vocal melody primarily when writing (for example) Behind the Veil? We don't know their exact process of writing songs and with many DT songs being specifically created for vocals to go on top, it wouldn't be that drastic for them to say that they actually do think of the melodies first. In fact, out of the vocally driven songs, only Metropolis, Beyond This Life, Illumination Theory and maybe Panic Attack Surrender to Reason (alongside a few others I may have forgot) wouldn't have sounded awkward as an instrumental.
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JP has said on multiple occasions that they write the instrumental part of the song first.
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JP has said on multiple occasions that they write the instrumental part of the song first.
They write the instrumental music before they write the lyrics, yes.
But that doesn't necessarily mean that they never write music without vocal melodies in mind.
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Barry's (kirksnosehair) thoughts pretty much sum up what I have always felt about it. The production is just awful. I think I put this album aside after a week, which mean's it's probably "meh" to me. Barry says the production is lazy, I think is says that they either forgot who their fan base is (largely geezers like me who have been fans for 15 or more years), or they are willing to cast us aside for a cash grab of new fans.
DT12 has my anticipation for DT13 at an all time low, and before anyone screams tastes change, three of the albums I'm really looking forward to next year are Redemption, Haken, and Circus Maximus (1st one is certain, 2nd and 3rd ones I'm speculating on), so I'm still very much on board with progressive metal.
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I wanna say it's their best since Train Of Thought.
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Instant Classic then and I still feel the same way today.
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This album taught me how important a component Production is in the whole perception of an album!
Catchy riffs and song movements yes but I just don't want to listen to it. I just move on to SDOIT or FII almost immediately.
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It's fine I guess. Illumination Theory is a cracker, but the rest of the album doesn't especially excite me. If the songs crop up on a shuffle I'll enjoy them, but I never find myself actively seeking out the album to listen, like I still do with most of their older stuff.
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I more and more think that this is a very good album that is crippled by poor sound quality. It just sounds so flat. Plus, the snare tone reduces the energy because you don't have that nice sharp crack. It feels muted compared to other albums.
I find myself enjoying the songs as a think about them, sing the melodies, play air drums, but when I listen to the album I don't find it very exciting. That to me is weird. This is why I think that the sound quality really hampered the listening experience. I was listening to some old rush albums and compared them to DT12 and found DT12 so lifeless when I took 2112 out and compared it to DT12. It is striking.
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Disappointing. It's extremely forgetable.
What album are we talking about? I forgot. :lol :lol
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DT12 reminds me somewhat of Falling Into Infinity. A more commercial sounding album with less complex song structures and a bit more focus on melody, which, unfortunately falls a little flat for me.
See, I don't have a problem with a more commercial sound. My favorite music is maybe halfway in between commercial and prog. I think there's something to be said for simplicity, some great chord changes, and a repeating hook. My favorite Genesis album is Duke, which I see as about halfway in between Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (which is self-indulgent to the point that it's boring) and Invisible Tough (which, aside from Domino, is pretty much a straight-up pop album, albeit a good one). Yes wrote some really catchy but still progressive radio songs. Same with Rush.
Lifting Shadows off a Dream is one of my favorite DT songs, and there's no solos in it. Looking Glass is my favorite from DT. These are still progressive songs, but they're not overdone, and they accomplish a lot without the need to "show off" musically. Not that I never want to hear DT show off...it's cool when they do. But they only need to do it once or twice on an album to make a good one.
As for DT, I liked it a lot when it first came out, but it's settled in as kind of average for me. Not a huge fan of TEI, EM, BTV, and IT is mediocre as far as DT epics go. LG, AFTR, TBP and STR are solid.
ADTOE is aging a lot better IMO.
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While i like the focus on "simpler" (by DT-standarts) songwriting and melody
I like the tightening up of songwriting, but it also kind of shows the weakness of DT. Commercial song arrangements are usually simpler mainly because there is an extremely strong hook and making the song too long dilutes and takes away the focus of that. My main problem with prog is the long songs are kind of a substitution or crutch that hides the lack of legitimate hooks.
I'll give too examples of DT12 on hooks.
I liked The Enemy Inside immediately. To me, the opening pre-vocal intro is the hook and everything (except the bridge) just strongly upholds that hook. It is concise and has a very direct musical style and theme. Really good songwriting (although DT fans don't seem to like this song as much)
I also liked parts of Illumination Theory quite a bit. But the larger concept took away from what could have been strong hooks that stood on their own. Live, Die, Kill could have been a Top 20 song for me on its own. And the Pursuit of Truth had a good hook, but less developed than Live, Die, Kill. So two strong hooks that could have been used to create two more concise, hook driven songs ... weren't.
The rest of the album is kind of not great, not bad for me. Nothing that would even come close to a Top 30 or maybe even Top 50 DT song for me. And I feel it is because they really didn't have a strong hook. They might have had hooks, but not very strong ones.
And yes, a hook is subjective. It isn't like there is a definition that can guarantee parts of songs are universally accepted as a strong hook and others have no hooks. Ultimately, I blame the vocalist as they are usually the songwriter in a band that creates the hook. JP is the main songwriter (by a wide margin it seems), so the hooks are almost always the guitar over the melody. I kind of feel like if DT forced themselves to write the melodies first (not all the time, just mix it in), they'd create a new instant classic.
I agree with all of this...good points. I don't want all hooks, I prefer an even balance of symphonic prog songwriting and poppy hooks.
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Lifting Shadows off a Dream is one of my favorite DT songs, and there's no solos in it.
Lifting Shadows is also one of my favorite DT songs, but if you told JP there was no solo in it, he would be upset, because there is one.
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It certainly does. Nothing fancy, but definitely a solo nonetheless.
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Eh, it's more like a couple variations on a riff than a solo.
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Illumination Theory, Surrender to Reason and The Bigger Picture are still great songs to me.
The rest range from nice to meh. The mix still doesn't sound good.
One thing I have to recognise, this album is very consistent. Not as much as ADTOE, but consistent nonetheless.
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I heard it recently, and it didn't amaze me as it did when it was new. There are no bad songs on it, I still think The Bigger Picture is a wonderful song and that Behind the Veil has an awesome chorus (never realized until my lost recent listening the Mustaine impression James makes on the verses), but the other songs, while being all nice and entertaining and having their moments (the general punch of The Enemy Inside, or the goosebumps ending of Illumination Theory), do not really captivate me as much as they used to. In short, I realized this album didn't age well with me, but I still think it's a very good album.
On the other hand just today I listened to A Dramatic Turn of Events and damn if I liked it! Even the songs I preferred less like Lost Not Forgotten and This is the Life, I enjoyed them a lot... maybe it was just because I didn't listen to it for months, possibly years by now, but I truly liked every moment of it. Very balanced albums with more regular songs mixed with convincing epics, and the "musical wankery" was not overblown or out of place in the context of the songs. I hope DT13 will be like this, while taking more risks and innovations.
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TBP, STR and IT are pretty strong songs by DT standards (especially TBP and IT). Even BTV, AFTR and TEI are pretty good songs to listen to every once in a while.
IMHO it feels like they tried to experiment a bit more with song structures (shorter songs, less repeating riffs and sections) and they put some slightly different, more modern influences in their music... I feel that Petrucci's got some of that djenty single-note polymetric riffs going, also thanks to Mangini's drumming.
The obvious con is the production... I think that if they went for a more natural sounding but still powerful record (of which BC&SL is a perfect example) the album would be much more desirable to listen to.
I seriously hope that the keeping of Chycki as engineer/mixer won't impact as much the production of the next album as it did for DT12.
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OMG, it happened. I think I like DT12. I still think it's nothing to write home about, but I now enjoy it - as in being able to hum along and bang my head a little to it.
Just in time too.
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Very Strong for me. I liked it from day one and still listen to it regularly. I think it's a really consistent album and actually feel a couple of songs like STR and BTV could have even been a little longer. But being left wanting more over songs dragging is a good place to be in my book.
IT is one of my favourite epics. Love the guitars, love the energy of James and feel like I'm in the minority who really likes the middle classical section. It's makes sense to me in the context of the song of kind of 'asking questions' - 'searching for the truth' - 'finding the answer'.
Enigma Machine is a highly underrated instrumental too in my book. Hell's Kitchen is my personal fave, but I'm left scratching my head at the lack of love for EM. It is a ripping instrumental, and one I actually prefer over the generally more highly rated 'Dance of Eternity'.
This album (and ADTOE which I feel has also aged very well) is light years above some of their other more recent offerings IMO.
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This album (...) is light years above some of their other more recent offerings IMO.
Which offering is more recent than DT12?
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Eh, it's more like a couple variations on a riff than a solo.
Not sure what you're talking about. It's clearly a guitar solo. Sorry that it isn't 40,000 notes in 10 seconds, or sweep picking all over the place, or fingertapping till the cows come home.
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This album remains in the "very strong" category for me. Tempted to vote "instant classic," but, to me, classics cannot be instant. They are made over time. And 2 years is too soon. But I still rank this album as #4 overall, behind 6DOIT, SFAM, and ADTOE, and it has definitely grown on me considerably since its release. One of their best efforts, hands down. If not for the flat production, it may have ranked even higher.
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Disliked it the first time I heard it and still really don't like it. Weak, uninspiring songs (apart from "Illumination") and terrible production....rock bottom of their career pile for me....Things can and WILL only get MUCH better with this new one, I am sure :)
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This album (...) is light years above some of their other more recent offerings IMO.
Which offering is more recent than DT12?
Fairly obviously referring to some of the other recent albums preceding DT. Feel free to adjust my 'in desperate need of coffee' wording in your own mind if you feel it necessary... :yarr
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Still a really good one.
BTV and AFTR feel like fillers, and EM not really my cup of tea, but the rest of it is very strong.
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To me, filler =/= a song I don't like.
Regardless of how much I like certain songs over others, each still sets out to fulfill a purpose. That alone makes it not a filler.
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I find myself really indifferent to it. It's not bad, and it has some great moments, but it's not upper echelon for me. Not even close.
The mellow part in IT is a total buzzkill. Total.
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To me, filler =/= a song I don't like.
Regardless of how much I like certain songs over others, each still sets out to fulfill a purpose. That alone makes it not a filler.
+1.
A filler track is a song you specifically write just to fill up an album.
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All Killer No Filler :metal
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Anyway - the longer I leave listens of DT12 - the harder it is to get back into it because you always think " ah the snare can't be that bad "
But it is.
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All Killer No Filler :metal
I don't see what Sum 41 as to do with this, but I agree with you nonetheless.
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To me, filler =/= a song I don't like.
Regardless of how much I like certain songs over others, each still sets out to fulfill a purpose. That alone makes it not a filler.
+1.
A filler track is a song you specifically write just to fill up an album.
+2.
Paranoid from Black Sabbath and You've Got Another Thing Comin' from Judas Priest were fillers. They're also one of their most successful singles.
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All Killer No Filler :metal
I don't see what Sum 41 as to do with this, but I agree with you nonetheless.
Appreciated, although that album is full of filler material IMO :lol
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All Killer No Filler :metal
I don't see what Sum 41 as to do with this, but I agree with you nonetheless.
Appreciated, although that album is full of filler material IMO :lol
I couldn't tell if you're right. It's been so long I can only remember the singles. Well I guess this actually proves your point :lol
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You've Got Another Thing Comin'
:lol I squirm every time I see this. .
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I couldn't tell if you're right. It's been so long I can only remember the singles. Well I guess this actually proves your point :lol
Ya me too, can't believe how a song as annoying as In Too Deep never gets erased out of my mind.
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"Very Strong" describes it well. It feels to me that the band set out to do "what they do best", aiming for stuff that can hold its own over time. LaBrie is a special character for me in this one, those higher backing vocals in Along for the Ride are some of my favourite moments in DT's history. Such a great ~ballad~ as it were. I wish they'd play it instead of Spirit Carries On (beautiful song, I love it but it could get some rest in the set. if they want to play a SFAM song every show, they could as well play Fatal Tragedy!).
But I digress. I like the intro just fine, Looking Glass is a gem, Enigma Machine is a fun instrumental (especially with the cartoons they projected live!), Behind the Veil and The Bigger Picture could be songs to show just what dream theater "is" without resorting to the classics... This is a great album through and through.
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Anyway - the longer I leave listens of DT12 - the harder it is to get back into it because you always think " ah the snare can't be that bad "
But it is.
This. Happened to me a few months ago. I thought "hey, The Bigger Picture was a nice song wasn't it? Haven't heard that one in a while", then I listened to it. Couldn't bare more than maybe half the track before I stopped and listened to something not cringe-worthy instead.
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Very Strong for me. I liked it from day one and still listen to it regularly. I think it's a really consistent album and actually feel a couple of songs like STR and BTV could have even been a little longer. But being left wanting more over songs dragging is a good place to be in my book.
IT is one of my favourite epics. Love the guitars, love the energy of James and feel like I'm in the minority who really likes the middle classical section. It's makes sense to me in the context of the song of kind of 'asking questions' - 'searching for the truth' - 'finding the answer'.
Enigma Machine is a highly underrated instrumental too in my book. Hell's Kitchen is my personal fave, but I'm left scratching my head at the lack of love for EM. It is a ripping instrumental, and one I actually prefer over the generally more highly rated 'Dance of Eternity'.
This album (and ADTOE which I feel has also aged very well) is light years above some of their other more recent offerings IMO.
I agree with most of what you say here. I don't know if we are necessarily the minority when it comes to liking the orchestral section of IT, but I am surprised there have been as many people as there are that don't like it.
I also love Enigma Machine. One of their better instrumentals for sure but I am sure we are in the minority when it comes to regarding it higher than Dance of Eternity.
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Anyway - the longer I leave listens of DT12 - the harder it is to get back into it because you always think " ah the snare can't be that bad "
But it is.
This. Happened to me a few months ago. I thought "hey, The Bigger Picture was a nice song wasn't it? Haven't heard that one in a while", then I listened to it. Couldn't bare more than maybe half the track before I stopped and listened to something not cringe-worthy instead.
I actually have to say something.
I just went for a long walk and listened to DT12 in full and I really enjoyed it. The snare is still a problem but it didn't annoy me as much this time.
I have tried many times to enjoy Awake beyond the first three songs but I never do however I do enjoy DT12 all the way through to some degree.
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Lol yeah, 6:00 and Caught in a Web are almost unbearable to me. I only like them when I hear them by their own, but when I try to hear the entire Awake, I always skip these.
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I think it's a decent album. I don't really listen to it much, though, preferring to stick to 6DOIT and earlier. Still, it (along with ADTOE) is more in a direction I prefer, unlike the 4 before them, which I no longer even have in my library anymore.
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I don't dislike it but I can't get into it. I thought it would change after a few listens but it didn't happen.
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Lol yeah, 6:00 and Caught in a Web are almost unbearable to me. I only like them when I hear them by their own, but when I try to hear the entire Awake, I always skip these.
That's the opposite of what I meant. The first three songs are the only ones I enjoy.
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Disappointing. It's extremely forgetable.
What album are we talking about? I forgot. :lol :lol
Ironically the one not given a name. I feel like it doesn't really have an identity other than its terrible production quality and snare sound. It had a couple good ideas, but honestly the album just doesn't hold my interest in the slightest. I've had no desire to really listen to it in its entirety since the week it came out. That's just my tastes though.
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About not having a name... if you forget that it's the name of the band, "Dream Theater" as a title kinda fits the album. With that theatrical / cinematic intro and outro to bookend the album (Ok, maybe it should have been "Nightmare Cinema" then ;D ) it makes up for a complete beginning - middle - end experience like you would witness in a theater.
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Ehhh, I doubt that's why they named it that. The album isn't really cohesive with anything side from its musical style. You just described what could be SFAM (or maybe SDOIT) as well. Nothing unique about having a theatrical/cinematic intro and outro.
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It's decent, I prefer ADToE. There aren't many intense moments on DTDT, it comes down to Illumination Theory and False Awakening Suite for me and maybe Enigma Machine.
Also I've been listening to it again recently and couldn't help but notice there's a weird submissive tone and vibe to a lot of lyrics on this album.
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I voted "Very Strong" . . . when I first heard the album (I'm actually a new fan so it was the first album I was ever there for when it was released) I was a bit ambivalent about it - it just didn't seem like the Dream Theater that I had became obsessed with over the last year and a half. It was an awesome album, but it just didn't click for me yet . . . well, after two years of listening to it, I truly appreciate the album and proudly consider it another completely unique album by DT. Still not as good for me as ADTOE (which, in my opinion, is the best album since Six Degrees) but still a very strong album with great moments that I keep coming back for ;)
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I voted "Very Strong" . . . when I first heard the album (I'm actually a new fan so it was the first album I was ever there for when it was released) I was a bit ambivalent about it - it just didn't seem like the Dream Theater that I had became obsessed with over the last year and a half. It was an awesome album, but it just didn't click for me yet . . . well, after two years of listening to it, I truly appreciate the album and proudly consider it another completely unique album by DT. Still not as good for me as ADTOE (which, in my opinion, is the best album since Six Degrees) but still a very strong album with great moments that I keep coming back for ;)
Out of Africa Interest - what are your top 3 albums ? Mine are :
1. Octavarium
2. Scenes From a Memory
3. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
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Out of Africa Interest - what are your top 3 albums ? Mine are :
1. Octavarium
2. Scenes From a Memory
3. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
You're gonna have to give me top 4 - can't choose 3 :lol
1. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
2. Scenes From A Memory
3. Tie - ADTOE & IAW (but not trying to start the debate again on the similarities lol - they ARE different, just like them both the same ;) )
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To which i will add - a song can have the same structure as another song and still sound entirely different. :dunno:
the rumours about ADTOE being I&W2 were a huge " so what " to me.
OK - worst three ? Should be easier...
10. DT12
11. Awake
12. When Dream And Day Unite
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To which i will add - a song can have the same structure as another song and still sound entirely different. :dunno:
the rumours about ADTOE being I&W2 were a huge " so what " to me.
OK - worst three ? Should be easier...
10. DT12
11. Awake
12. When Dream And Day Unite
Yeah I agree with that! I do find it a bit intriguing if they did intentionally do something like that but it doesn't really matter - at least not enough to get people who are tired of hearing it upset over ;)
Okay worst three - I love all of them, but here I go:
10. When Dream and Day Unite
11. Systematic Chaos
12. Falling Into Infinity
And in no way am I one of those FII and SC haters, they still beat my favorite albums by most other bands - just how I order it ;D
Interesting to hear your picks - overall pretty similar taste, especially on the 3 favorites!
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Falling Into Infinity is #1 in the production scale. Just a gorgeous sounding album. Especially Hell's Kitchen and Lines In The Sand.
DT12 is worst for production value.
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Falling Into Infinity is #1 in the production scale. Just a gorgeous sounding album. Especially Hell's Kitchen and Lines In The Sand.
DT12 is worst for production value.
Well you got me there . . . it is a great sounding album! I still really enjoy it, just not as much as other albums :)
Yeah I was reading what you guys were saying about DT12 in the other thread . . . definitely a great album imo but yeah hopefully "The Astonishing" captures more of that original production quality. Would love to hear a FII production album paired with awesome songs like on SFaM . . . imagine that!
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:drool:
I've got Lines In The Sand on now. My 2nd fave DT song after Octavarium and that solo is :heart :heart :heart :heart :heart
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Screw you all. New Millennium is a great song. :metal
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Yes. It is.
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Plus there's that bit in the middle which sounds exactly like where they went with SFAM.
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It's weird. You guys must have a deluxe copy of the self-titled album because I don't have a song called New Millenium on mine.
But I agree that it's a pretty good song
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It's weird. You guys must have a deluxe copy of the self-titled album because I don't have a song called New Millenium on mine.
But I agree that it's a pretty good song
Yes. It is.
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It's weird. You guys must have a deluxe copy of the self-titled album because I don't have a song called New Millenium on mine.
But I agree that it's a pretty good song
It's a special cut song from the album, the name is similar to the original FII song, which is Caught in a New Millenium. Maybe it's similar to how Octavarium has a song named "The Answer Lies Within" and in the new one is just named "The Answer".
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:lol okay guys I give in, FII is a really good album with some great songs!
Haven't listened to it in a long while, think I just might do that now ;)
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Screw you all. New Millennium is a great song. :metal
:tup Loved it ever since hearing it on Budokan.
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When it first came out, I had the CD in my car playing on rotation for about two months. And then I would play it on my phone, I think I have given that album 300+ listens, way more than anything after SDOIT. then I went to watch them live on their 2014 tour and loved it but stop listening to it shortly after. Now I listen to that album maybe once every other month or so. Songs like IT and EM are instant classics to me, but the rest as ok at best. Even early favorites like STR, and BTV sound stale now. I still rank the album higher than anything after SDOIT through. Even higher than ADTOE. Now that's an album I haven't listened to in well over a year.
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Sorry but DT12 was a huge disappointment to me. But I thought ADTOE was alright (with some excellent tracks), whereas the past 3 albums with Portnoy don't have much reply value to me either. But I'm still having faith in them for The Astonishing, fingers crossed..... :-\
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Here's how I felt about every album that's come out since I became a fan.
ToT - Awesome. Logical direction after SDoIT. Over time, one dimensional, but when in the mood, this album kicks my ass.
8vm - Aside from opener and Panic Attack, I felt this album was a grower, but I now think it's one of the great albums, title track gets better with age.
SC - Loved it for a week or so, then stopped listening to DT completely for about a year and a half (nothing to do with SC itself, just my music tastes at the time.) When I got back into DT in early 2009, I thought it was solid, but had a few low points in the back half of the album before ITPOE pt2.
BC&SL - Loved it immediately, and has become one of my most listened to albums. However, I haven't listened to it in well over 2 years, partially because I know every note. It has its flaws, but I think it was a big improvement over SC.
ADTOE - Also loved it immediately, but due to the new drummer, I was getting used to Mangini. Then I couldn't stop listening to it. I wore out this album big time, where I can't listen to it any more because I know every note. Definitely better than the Portnoy era albums (SC/BCSL) and maybe 8vm.
DT12DT - Maybe it was my head space, but I couldn't listen to this more than 3 times in a month when it came out, then maybe once every 6 months just to give it another shot. At this point, I can appreciate some songs, like the opening quartet of songs, plus I found I can enjoy the album better if I listen to it 2-3 tracks at a time. It might have to do with the production as well (I only have the CD, and a down-mix I found online, might be from the blu-ray edition but I don't think I like that mix either.) Is the HD tracks worth it?
The epic is cool if I'm in the mood. The middle ambient and then orchestral strings section makes me tear up to the point where I just want to start crying. This part alone is more beautiful than anything DT has made before, so beautiful that I can't always listen to it.) But I think the song is a little disjointed, which I don't really think of DT epics.
So DT12DT was pretty disappointing, even 2 years later. JP's tones are not to my liking. Could, again, be the production.
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Is the HD tracks worth it?
Yes. It's not a huge improvement, but it is very noticeable and the sound is much clearer and it feels a little more open.