DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Darkstarshades on August 12, 2015, 10:10:10 AM
-
You read it.
Not counting epics, because they're usually a matter of general opinion. Myself, for example, always gravitate towards a band's very long songs and they're usually what I search first when I discover a band.
I'd say it's probably Repentance. I can't imagine anyone's look at a 10+ minute song Like this.
-
First thing to pop into my mind is Dance of Eternity, also, some of the really inaccesible songs for me at first were Scarred/Voices, Finally Free and Metropolis are also worth mentioning.
-
First thing to pop into my mind is Dance of Eternity, also, some of the really inaccesible songs for me at first were Scarred/Voices, Finally Free and Metropolis are also worth mentioning.
WHAT??
Those are probably some of the best songs that encapsulate what DT is all about.
-
Well, I actually agree with Train, Scarred is indeed extremely innaccessible and is more a test of patience than encapsulating what DT is about.
It's the only song from Awake that hasn't clicked me so far, I also thought of it, but eventually Repentance won out.
-
Yeah, they're all great showcases of Dream Theater's style, it doesn't make them good introductions.
-
Mike Thinks He's Dee Dee Ramone Introducing a Song Song
-
The Dark Eternal Night, because it ranks highly in the rankings of those who are more in favour of the metal side of DT. I am aware of people (metalheads)who have a casual interest in DT on the basis of this song. Obviously nothing wrong with that but I'd consider it a poor choice of song to introduce the band to somebody as it isn't really represent their overall style and they haven't really made any other song quite like it.
-
Anything from WDADU, Enigma Machine, Repentance and most of the most complicated songs are maybe not the best choice.
-
Anna Lee. If somebody hears that as their first exposure to DT, that person will think that they are a late-eighties adult contemporary, VH1 band.
-
Anything from the debut.
Anything from SDOIT disc 2.. imagine introducing someone to DT with TTTSTA. Flurry of notes right from the start, not good.
This is the Life or one of their other recent sappy ballads.
-
Through My Words
-
"That's it? Man, this band makes such short songs."
-
Regression
-
Just Let Me Breathe because this is one of the first songs my friend played for me and I wouldn't get into DT for another few years when I finally heard good songs.
-
ANTR is probably a bad song to introduce people with though for real 'cause of the awful solo section and ROOOAAARR and it being 16 minutes doesn't help either
-
and it's not about TGP it's about one of my top 5 DT songs
What about one of my top... 8 DT songs?
-
Vacant, Wait for Sleep, Far From Heaven, Regression, The Silent Man and False Awakening Suite.
-
you're in the wrong thread now, 425
-
Vacant, Wait for Sleep, Far From Heaven, Regression, The Silent Man and False Awakening Suite.
I actually used FAS once to introduce someone to DT, worked out great. :D
-
you're in the wrong thread now, 425
Posts can have consequences that are bigger than any one thread.
Vacant, Wait for Sleep, Far From Heaven, Regression, The Silent Man and False Awakening Suite.
I actually used FAS once to introduce someone to DT, worked out great. :D
I used FAS once to introduce someone to Symphony X. Was I not supposed to do that? :P
-
Home because of the moaning... explaining that it's "just part of the concept" most likely wouldn't help! :lol
Seriously though, You Not Me probably is the most obvious answer.
-
First thing to pop into my mind is Dance of Eternity, also, some of the really inaccesible songs for me at first were Scarred/Voices, Finally Free and Metropolis are also worth mentioning.
WHAT??
Those are probably some of the best songs that encapsulate what DT is all about.
This, especially Metropolis. In fact, that is probably the best one to use.
Worst? The Answer Lies Within
-
The worst song to introduce someone to DT with would have to be YNM.... that song incapsulates the worst of the record company influence. Though the album does grow on you, I'd say that most songs off of FII would be a bad beginning.
-
First thing to pop into my mind is Dance of Eternity, also, some of the really inaccesible songs for me at first were Scarred/Voices, Finally Free and Metropolis are also worth mentioning.
WHAT??
Those are probably some of the best songs that encapsulate what DT is all about.
This, especially Metropolis. In fact, that is probably the best one to use.
Worst? The Answer Lies Within
Metropolis was my intro to Dream Theater. It blew my mind because I have never heard anythong like it before.
-
The Dark Eternal Night, because it ranks highly in the rankings of those who are more in favour of the metal side of DT. I am aware of people (metalheads)who have a casual interest in DT on the basis of this song. Obviously nothing wrong with that but I'd consider it a poor choice of song to introduce the band to somebody as it isn't really represent their overall style and they haven't really made any other song quite like it.
Which is funny, because this is the first DT song that I heard. I used to listen to Metallica and Dragonforce, and The Dark Eternal Night instantly clicked with me. Over time, and as my musical tastes developed, I've almost completely turned from a fan of the metal side of DT to a fan of the prog side. Whereas my first favorite of theres was TDEN, my favorites now include Learning to Live and Voices. Interesting how these things work.
-
I would say any of the long songs would be a bad idea because of their generally inaccessible nature. Instrumentals would be a bad idea as well because of their lack of JLB (anything from WDaDU would be bad for the same reason). It's tough to pick just one because they have a discography mostly comprised of extremely inaccessible songs. I guess The Dance of Eternity would be the worst one but there's so many other songs that could be considered the worst for introducing someone to the band.
-
Depends on what they listen to. If they like metal, something from FII. If they like prog, something from FII too :rollin
-
I would say it depends entirely on the introducee. A few of my all time favourite artists have albums I would call perfect (or close to) as well as some of my lowest rankings ever. DT and Queensryche both fit the bill there.
If you introduced me to DT right now via the bloat on ToT or SC I never would've bothered to dig deep enough to find what is basically my all time favourite album (I&W). DT are a hard band to just introduce someone to without knowing at least a little about what they like.
-
I walk beside you, too commercial, could easily have got radio play and barely gives anyone an idea of what DT stands for. Mike Portnoy even said it could've done well as a single but people could've got the wrong idea about the band. Still love the song, but still....
-
If a persom can not handle Metropolis as an introduction, then I don't think he is the type who would become a real convert.
-
I would not play Space-Dye Vest to anyone. Better chuck Beneath the Surface and Far From Heaven in there too. Nothing strongly against those tracks, they're... fine for what they, maybe even great, but they're especially not something I'd ever use to sell the band. Infact I'd play someone Prophets of War or The Best of Times anyday. You or Me or Anna Lee, fuck yeah! But never SDV.
-
If a persom can not handle Metropolis as an introduction, then I don't think he is the type who would become a real convert.
False, someone introduced me to DT with Metropolis, and it was probably the worst song he could ever pick, I'm not usually into prog music, so that once again proves that it really depends on the introducee.
-
Well, I actually agree with Train, Scarred is indeed extremely innaccessible and is more a test of patience than encapsulating what DT is about.
Whoa. Whoa. Wait. Hold up.
Back when you actually used to go into a store and try out audio/video equipment, Scarred was the song I popped in to test if I really liked the speakers/receiver/CD player ... whatever.
Without fail, somebody would come up to us and ask what they were hearing. And it wasn't long haired metal heads or dudes wearing metal shirts.
Then Voices and Eve (all on Awake) would seal the deal. Especially Eve.
-
Repentance is the first thing that comes to mind. I imagine a first time listener falling asleep by the time that "Ahhh" section hits. It's not really a knock on the song itself, but if you don't understand the subject matter behind the song, it might be quite confusing and uninteresting.
-
I'd say any ballad (Wait for Sleep, Space-Dye Vest, Hollow Years, The Spirit Carries On, Beneath the Surface etc.) would be a bad introduction. People who expect technical proggy stuff would be turned off, as well as people who want some heavy riffing and shredding. Many people who enjoy those ballads (and that type of music) right off the bat probably wouldn't appreciate DT's technical & heavy side that much. So it's a lose-lose situation.
I think the vast majority of DT fans were drawn in by either the prog or the metal side of DT. The ballads are a good added bonus and can be a nice change of pace if you enjoy them, but I usually skip them when I listen to DT (except for TSCO and Budokan Hollow Years, which are saved by the guitar solos, but both songs took a lot of time to grow on me otherwise).
I always thought that many DT ballads don't really fit in their catalogue seamlessly, oftentimes they stand out like a sore thumb amidst all their intricate, technical and complex instrumental passages and heavy riffing/shredding. This aspect reminds me of ELP, where Keith brought his modern keyboard arsenal and wrote 20 minute heavy and virtuoso prog epics, while all Greg Lake wanted to do was to sing 3 minute long acoustic ballads. Two completely different worlds, different sides to the same band, which didn't really match or create a cohesive whole. Radio listeners who heard Lucky Man might have thought that ELP was this really soft, delicate band (except for the ending, which is a great musical joke and it's an appropriate metaphor to show off the clashing, dissonant nature of the band), while prog fans could end up dismissing and ignoring all the Lake-stuff.
-
Anally.
I mean.. Anna Lee.
-
https://yourmajesty.ytmnd.com/
I'm just saying...
-
Erotomania.
-
Just Let Me Breathe because this is one of the first songs my friend played for me and I wouldn't get into DT for another few years when I finally heard good songs.
Shame on you for making a judgement based off one song. :p I guess you had another few Hollow Years huh? :lol
Never Enough is the worst. PoW would be a close runner up.
-
I'm not so surprised that many people are saying Metropolis Pt. 1, though that hasn't necessarily been the case for myself. I'm not really sure if I'm just an exception, but that was one of the very first DT songs I had ever listened to and I was instantly hooked. I wasn't even into prog at the time.
Introducing someone into DT in the right manner really all depends on that person's musical taste and background. I'd say it's the worst to start them off with a song that only gives them a tight-knit idea of what the band is all about. Repentance certainly comes to mind, as I'm not sure any new listeners would be willing to sit through 10 minutes of a monotonous bass line. Some of the shorter power ballads come to mind too.
-
To help clarify this, let's consider the opposite. What songs got you in to Dream Theater? For me, it was either A Rite of Passage or Under A Glass Moon
-
Panic Attack and Endless Sacrifice, PMU and pretty much the rest of ToT shortly after.
Panic Attack hasn't gotten better for me over time, but Endless Sacrifice remains a top 5 song for me. :heart
-
To help clarify this, let's consider the opposite. What songs got you in to Dream Theater? For me, it was either A Rite of Passage or Under A Glass Moon
In The Name Of God and Endless Sacrifice were my introduction songs. The rest of ToT, and eventually the other albums came after. WDADU really made DT my favorite band.
I still love all the songs on ToT, because they bring back a lot of positive memories. Ahh, the days of blasting that album while playing PS2 for hours.
-
I don't remember. I know ToT was my first album. But then the song that convinced me to get the rest of their albums was Pull Me Under, which I still think is one of the best introductory songs (maybe second-best to its sister song, On the Backs of Angels).
-
I would say Lost Not Forgotten. I mean, that tickle section... You can't just blindside someone with it.
-
Home
the sex would probably make quite a few people uncomfortable, and honestly I think it's unnecessary
-
I'd say any ballad (Wait for Sleep, Space-Dye Vest, Hollow Years, The Spirit Carries On, Beneath the Surface etc.) would be a bad introduction. People who expect technical proggy stuff would be turned off, as well as people who want some heavy riffing and shredding.
Hmm, I was kind of implying in my post that certain ballads wouldn't be a good example. But, I deliberately didn't mention Wait for Sleep, Spirit, Disappear or even Vacant, because... Well for a start, WFS and TSCO aren't nearly as morbid as SDV/BTS/FFH, plus WWS is a bit more technical in my mind, i mean the first few bars switch between 10/8, 9/8 and 12/8 and constantly switches between these time signatures for the rest of the song. And I think Disappear and Vacant actually have captured something quite unique with the moods they create and Vacant feels like part of a bigger whole because SoC. Opinions though I guess, people probably feel the same way about Space Dye Vest even though personally I'm not much of a fan of it.
To help clarify this, let's consider the opposite. What songs got you in to Dream Theater? For me, it was either A Rite of Passage or Under A Glass Moon
In this order I think:
- Honor Thy Father
- Pull Me Under
- Constant Motion
- Panic Attack
- A Rite of Passage
Something like that... Yeah... Also TOT and BC&SL albums. Those songs are the rather varied ones if anything, but I still love them all for getting me into the band even if they don't played as much as recent favourites.
Home
the sex would probably make quite a few people uncomfortable, and honestly I think it's unnecessary
I didn't even notice those for I don't even know how long, I doubt they'd put someone off the whole song though. I just lold when I finally noticed it. :lol
-
DT's music is varied, and so is the musical background of new fans, so it's hard to say a song is a bad song to introduce someone to the band.
Some songs may seem too long and complex to start with, but I never had a problem with the longer songs from the start, in fact I thought it was cool at the time that these songs were longer and more difficult than anything else I'd heard. A lot of other prog/metal/rock bands write songs that are longer than average, even if still nowhere near DT's average. Just because people aren't used to DT's song length, doesn't mean they're not ready for it!
Some songs may seem too short and not representative, but this works for a lot of people too. DT have written a lot of amazing shorter songs, even if they don't showcase all elements of the band to people. Ween them onto DT with something catchy and easily digestible, then work your way up to the longer songs. Start with just the tip so they don't cry when you go all in. :zydar:
And then other songs seem like a bad choice simply because they're not good songs to us, but that comes down to opinion. I've heard of people getting into the band from all kinds of different songs, even ones that people would suggest as joke answers.
So to answer the question, I don't know. :lol
-
Home
the sex would probably make quite a few people uncomfortable, and honestly I think it's unnecessary
I didn't even notice those for I don't even know how long, I doubt they'd put someone off the whole song though. I just lold when I finally noticed it. :lol
It is very noticeable when you hop in your car with somebody, turn the key and the stereo starts up where it left off ... right during the Home moaning section and your passenger is looking at you like you've got the strangest taste in music ever. And don't try an explain that it will all be fixed by murder. And if your car is a van with no side rear windows, your passenger might start to get a little fearful of what is about to go down.
But if you think that is awkward, nothing compares to same scenario, except it is Jordan's vaudeville piano solo blaring out of the speakers.
At that point you just write a check to each member of DT and apologize for permanently creating a non-fan.
-
So to answer the question, I don't know. :lol
I knew I could count on you.
-
Take Away My Pain
-
Well, I actually agree with Train, Scarred is indeed extremely innaccessible and is more a test of patience than encapsulating what DT is about.
Whoa. Whoa. Wait. Hold up.
Back when you actually used to go into a store and try out audio/video equipment, Scarred was the song I popped in to test if I really liked the speakers/receiver/CD player ... whatever.
Without fail, somebody would come up to us and ask what they were hearing. And it wasn't long haired metal heads or dudes wearing metal shirts.
Then Voices and Eve (all on Awake) would seal the deal. Especially Eve.
QFT. My brother and I always spin Awake in his car, partly because it sounds so amazingly deep, fat and rich. He doesn't care for the other DT albums.
-
Canadian rap.
Or Voices from OIAL.
-
Anything from Images And Words.
Now I mostly only say this from personal experience, I was very turned off by the extreme 80's hard rock sound they had going and some of the song structures are impenetrable (Metropolis, Learning To Live). Rather, it wasn't until getting familiar with DT's other stuff that I began truly appreciating the songwriting and masterful production of I&W later on.
I'd say if you want to grab someone, and grab them quick, hold off on anything from I&W. And maybe Awake while you're at it, but it honestly just depends on what kind of listener you're dealing with at that point.
-
DT's ballads, IMO. If you are fan that's OK, they are all great. If not it's not a great way to introduce to DT to anyone.
-
DT's ballads, IMO. If you are fan that's OK, they are all great. If not it's not a great way to introduce to DT to anyone.
That's not really true. I mean, I have friends who are a lot more into pop and soft rock, and I know they probably wouldn't be into the super complex stuff, but they still very much enjoy songs like Hollow Years, I Walk Beside You, etc. Now, you could argue that yeah, that's not exactly the epitome of what DT is about, but hey, I'd much rather they listened to DT's softer stuff than not listen to DT at all.
-
Just poking in to add a quick thought to the discussion. I wouldn't be shy in the slightest to introduce someone to DT with some of their longer epics initially. If they think it's too long, or get bored after awhile, then either they aren't into such music, or they're not someone I'm probably going to bother with introducing DT to in the first place. I don't see it as a chess game, where I should be mindful of easing someone into the 7 levels of DT hell. I'm going to take them right to Diablo, dammit. Screw messing with the peons on level 1. If they don't like it, they can piss off. It won't bother me none if they can't hack it. :tup
Go for whatever moves you the most from their catalogue. Or go with the consensus of populars. I tried this method and it worked with most everyone I've introduced DT to. I've started off with Metropolis, Learning to Live, Voices, A Change of Seasons, Lifting Shadows off a Dream, and even Breaking all Illusions. I even got a Christian girl that loves low key folk music and classic rock (Jethro Tull, Led Zep, etc) into DT by showing her Lines in the Sand. She continued to like them after This Dying Soul.
-
You Not Me
The Silent Man
The Answer Lies Within
Prophets of War
Repentance
Never Enough
Take Away My Pain
Anna Lee
The Best of Times
Beneath the Surface
-
^^^ Never Enough might not be a popular song here, but I would still more likely use it than most of those songs for certain people, after all it's got a catchy riff and and some other neat guitaring. Same with The Best of Times with it's sort of soft rock feel and, and still showcases some great composition (acoustic guitar/piano intro not to mention guitar solo).
-
^^^ Never Enough might not be a popular song here, but I would still more likely use it than most of those songs for certain people, after all it's got a catchy riff and and some other neat guitaring. Same with The Best of Times with it's sort of soft rock feel and, and still showcases some great composition (acoustic guitar/piano intro not to mention guitar solo).
Those two would definitely be at the top of that specific list I posted, but still IMO you wouldn't use them with what the band has on offer.
-
Repentance is one of the songs that helped get my friend into DT.
-
Dude! Check out Dream Theater! They're amazing!
This song is called "Never Enough".
It's about how much they hate their fans !! ;D
-
Dude! Check out Dream Theater! They're amazing!
This song is called "Never Enough".
It's about how much they hate their fans !! ;D
My friend actually put it on at a house party he was having, and one of his other friends, I kid you not, the first thing she asked was, "Is this Muse?" :lol
-
:lol I think the only appropriate answer to that is "Yes."
-
To help clarify this, let's consider the opposite. What songs got you in to Dream Theater? For me, it was either A Rite of Passage or Under A Glass Moon
*First post, so I figured this would be fitting.*
My introduction to DT was actually on 2015 New Years Day, when I heard a few songs from Octavarium. I believe they were Root of all Evil, These Walls, Panic Attack & Never Enough in that order. That moment when I first heard the chorus of TRoaE, that was the moment I became a Dream Theater fan. :hefdaddy
-
Mike Thinks He's Dee Dee Ramone Introducing a Song Song
:facepalm:
That song is amazing
I gotta realize that theres a difference between my tastes and others. I don't like Scarred so I probably wouldn't use that; however I realize many people love it so it would work for someone.
I also not counting the older albums.
I'd probably say... This Dying Soul. It's my least favorite of the AA suite and just seems disjointed.
-
Dude! Check out Dream Theater! They're amazing!
This song is called "Never Enough".
It's about how much they hate their fans !! ;D
I still never have forgiven Mike for how his blood spilled on my brand new floor.
-
To help clarify this, let's consider the opposite. What songs got you in to Dream Theater? For me, it was either A Rite of Passage or Under A Glass Moon
*First post, so I figured this would be fitting.*
My introduction to DT was actually on 2015 New Years Day, when I heard a few songs from Octavarium. I believe they were Root of all Evil, These Walls, Panic Attack & Never Enough in that order. That moment when I first heard the chorus of TRoaE, that was the moment I became a Dream Theater fan. :hefdaddy
Sweet! Also, welcome to the forum!
-
To help clarify this, let's consider the opposite. What songs got you in to Dream Theater? For me, it was either A Rite of Passage or Under A Glass Moon
*First post, so I figured this would be fitting.*
My introduction to DT was actually on 2015 New Years Day, when I heard a few songs from Octavarium. I believe they were Root of all Evil, These Walls, Panic Attack & Never Enough in that order. That moment when I first heard the chorus of TRoaE, that was the moment I became a Dream Theater fan. :hefdaddy
Sweet! Also, welcome to the forum!
Thanks :smiley:
-
I don't see why so many people wouldn't introduce someone to DT with a ballad. Sure, it's not super technical, but if the person listens to similar music already, wouldn't it be best to start with something similar to what they already like? At least they'd like some DT songs rather than be put off because whatever they heard first was too technical, or heavy, or whatever else. I know people who'd probably love IWBY, These Walls and the other more mainstream songs but probably would hate Metropolis.
Another thing I've done for myself is cut certain sections out...for example the sex part of Home, the ambient section of IT, the ending of Misunderstood, etc. So, with some audio editing even the longer songs could make great introductions too. The key is to find something that might connect with the person, musically or lyrically...
-
Erotomania.
This actually was my first DT song, and I loved it!
To answer the thread, I'd go with pretty much any ballad. Not their strong suit, as much as I like a few of 'em.
-
Your Majesty
-
Space-Dye Vest, definitely. It's just too weird for a newbie. Heck, 40 % of the time it's too weird for me.
-
I don't see why so many people wouldn't introduce someone to DT with a ballad. Sure, it's not super technical, but if the person listens to similar music already, wouldn't it be best to start with something similar to what they already like? At least they'd like some DT songs rather than be put off because whatever they heard first was too technical, or heavy, or whatever else. I know people who'd probably love IWBY, These Walls and the other more mainstream songs but probably would hate Metropolis.
For me, I wouldn't use a ballad simply because, while within their wheelhouse, it is not what they are known for, or what they are best at. I would want to introduce someone to Dream Theater, so I would use a song more indicative of what DT is, which the ballads don't really do, and could even set up a false sense of what kind of music DT actually makes.
I also wouldn't use More Than Words to introduce someone to Extreme. Is it good? Sure. Is it really representative of Extreme's music? No.
Another thing I've done for myself is cut certain sections out...for example the sex part of Home, the ambient section of IT, the ending of Misunderstood, etc. So, with some audio editing even the longer songs could make great introductions too. The key is to find something that might connect with the person, musically or lyrically...
Then you're not introducing anyone to DT. You are introducing them to your remix of DT.
-
The test that stumped them all.
Because of the scrotum pinched high verses
-
For me, I wouldn't use a ballad simply because, while within their wheelhouse, it is not what they are known for, or what they are best at. I would want to introduce someone to Dream Theater, so I would use a song more indicative of what DT is, which the ballads don't really do, and could even set up a false sense of what kind of music DT actually makes.
Then you're not introducing anyone to DT. You are introducing them to your remix of DT.
Yeah, I mean if I was going to use a ballad, or one of their more pop-oriented songs, I'd tell them right away that this isn't what most of their music sounds like. I still think it's better if someone likes some DT than none though, but that's just me.
As far as the song edits, is deleting some jungle sounds out of IT, or shortening the ending of Misunderstood really a remix? Those are certainly not things DT is known for either. Wasn't that part of the reason the Greatest Hit compilation was created? Many of the songs on there have been shortened (some too much IMO, but still). I've shortened several songs for my own listening just because I skip certain parts anyway, and again those sections are ones a new listener could easily be turned off by, so I see no problem. But we may just look at it differently!
-
ANTR is probably a bad song to introduce people with though for real 'cause of the awful solo section and ROOOAAARR and it being 16 minutes doesn't help either
It's funny, since this is the first song I ever heard from DT and loved it so much. I didn't even listen to progressive (metal) before. But this wouldn't be the song it'd let people hear first indeed : p
-
Mike Thinks He's Dee Dee Ramone Introducing a Song Song
:lol I'm About to Faint Song is even worse, though
I think The Dark Eternal Night would be a bad first example of what DT is really capable of, mainly because of the vocals.