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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Darkstarshades on August 05, 2015, 03:56:41 AM
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As I've stated in other posts, I'm a keyboardist, and as such, I'm a huge Jordanlover and I will always be, I just love what the man does and the way he improvises on the fly such awesome and beautiful stuf... But I've got to admit he's got some seriously weak stuff.
So the purpose of this, is that you chose which is DT's single worst solo (Or weakest, more appropiately), and explain why (if you're too lazy, then don't haha)
My criteria is this: A weak solo is either Unnecessary, little imaginative, too random, relative difficulty, unoriginal.
So, the winner in my case is...
The Root of All Evil Keyboard solo!
It's amazing just how poor I think this solo is, the first part is cool, fast and hard, but the solo itself is just some random note pressing that actually doesn't seem to follow any rule. Such is the case of this solo, that not even JR respects it live and often plays an entirely different thing. Sure, you can't just play "any" note, and in my experiences trying to cover the song, you can basically just mess around with the pitch bend set to one octave and you will be pretty fine. Obviously if you try to recreate it exactly as in the record, it's going to be crazy difficult, but it doesn't seem to matter even to JR himself, and almost nobody will notice it.
Soo, Idk about JP solos, I never listen to them carefully enough, so what about you?
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, but the solo itself is just some random note pressing that actually doesn't seem to follow any rule. Such is the case of this solo, that not even JR respects it live and often plays an entirely different thing.
I feel like that's every other JR solo. His solos are definitely very hit or miss.
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I love the TROAE keyboard solo! It's one of the last times he busts out the classic fat Kurz lead, and it's one of my favs (also fun as hell to play along with, although I can't play the really fast ascending/descending runs). No part of it sounds random at all.
The only bad one is the AROP bebot solo, because it's completely atonal noise (the keyboard solo beforehand is great though).
JP is consistently amazing with his solos, so that's a really tough one. I find the BITS solo somewhat forgettable, but it's not bad. There's part of the LNF solo that I think is really weak, with the staccato rhythm, but then the rest of it is rockin'.
I'm sure his weakest is probably on WDADU just by default.
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Oh, sure it's fun to play, I never said it wasn't.
It's just that he has other solos that are just so much much better than this one, more "systematic" (Octavarium solo being a prime example of this) that his one is just underneath everything. It's easy to diverge from it and not sound bad, which is why I think of it this way.
Is the bebot thing even a solo? :lol :lol
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It's easy to diverge from it and not sound bad, which is why I think of it this way.
You could say that for basically any solo. It's not like there's only one possible solo over any given section. The fact JR deviates from it live is just his style, not a sign that it's not a great solo. :) A lot of musicians deviate from their solos, even many of the most iconic ones.
There are definitely different styles of solo, and some will be more strictly composed than others, such as the Octavarium one you've mentioned. I don't feel that makes the looser more expressive ones inherently weaker though.
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Good point, interesting.
And I've got to admit I completely missed the bebot thing because it's indeed ridiculous, I would've placed it instead.
Still TROAE is not my solo of choice.
(Best one is BF, fck every else)
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(Best one is BF, fck every else)
Thinking about it, SDOIT is the album where his keyboard work shine the most imo.
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Cover My Eyes, definitely. I mean, it just brings nothing interesting to the song as well, and makes it entirely understandable why the song was left off the album.
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Omg, on JP solo, You Not Me, the guy clearly had no idea of wtf to do.
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Yea I'll vote for You Not Me.
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I always thought the You Not Me solo was kinda cool, something a little different...
At the OP, I'm surprised out of all the JR leads you picked out TROAE, I always thought that was a pretty cool solo. For JR I'd say either the Bebot solo in ARoP or his solos in EM.
For JP, that's tough. I'd say JP's playing is probably the most consistently great thing throughout DT's 30 year career.
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Probably either the keyboard solo in Honor Thy Father (what a noisy mess) or The Test That Stumped Them All (just an ugly solo).
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JR: A Rite of Passage (what were they thinking?)
JP: Stream of Conciousness. Yeah, I said it. Technically amazing but coma inducing.
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My JR era listening is concentrated mainly on the last 2 albums these days - from those I think The Enemy Inside is the one where I am itching for the (key) solo to be over before it even starts.
I can't say that a JP solo has ever taken down a good song for me. As it happens , generally if I don't like the soloing then it's in a song I am already not too fond of....and they mostly tend to be the bloated efforts on albums like Train of Thought , SC and BCSL.
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The worst solo has got to be the Bebot solo. Come on.
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Probably either the keyboard solo in Honor Thy Father (what a noisy mess) or The Test That Stumped Them All (just an ugly solo).
:omg: HTF solo is probably in my top 5. I find it very cool and atmospheric.
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Probably either the keyboard solo in Honor Thy Father (what a noisy mess) or The Test That Stumped Them All (just an ugly solo).
:omg: HTF solo is probably in my top 5. I find it very cool and atmospheric.
Such a badass solo that fits the anger of the song so perfectly.
TTTSTA isn't a standout, but nothing wrong with it either.
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For JR: A Rite of Passage and The Shattered Fortress.
The Shattered Fortress just goes on for too long.
I will say that it was entertaining live though.
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HTF is actually one of his best solos because it's so different and so over the top. That bebot thing is also different but not in a good way.
But as much as I like JR his solos are more often than not just a string of very fast played notes, kind of mindless shredding. I liked Sherinian's and Moore's solos mostly better.
JP has no really bad solos but sometimes he also gets lost in shredding , especially on ToT there are some passages which are kinda silly (for me).
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I'm gonna go with MP's drum solo on the WD&DU demos. ::)
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I'm gonna go with MP's drum solo on the WD&DU demos. ::)
Or any drum solo ever :P
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For JR, I would say A Nightmare to Remember. For JP, I would have to pick The Dark Eternal Night.
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The only bad one is the AROP bebot solo, because it's completely atonal noise (the keyboard solo beforehand is great though).
This. It's just 100% gimmick.
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The worst solo has got to be the Bebot solo. Come on.
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surrender to reason is actually worse than bebot
you got this cool bass groove going on then JP just takes a dump on it by playing mindless shredding until the last section of the solo
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I am a bit surprised about the hate towards AROP Bebot solo. For me, that was one of the highlights of BCASL. Come on, an iPad solo in 2009? It was also pretty much the coolest thing in the relatively weak Progressive Nation show in 2009 that I saw. I also like that the sounds have this analog synth vibe, although the solo was played as digitally as you can get. Perhaps I'm a little biased as I'm some kind of a tech enthusiast.
So I'd say that particular solo has been one of the most progressive things DT has done in the last 10 years. Granted nowadays it is not so cool any more and could be replaced or even skipped.
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^ It's just JR being " hey i'm the techie wizard guy.. I play keyboard solos on telephones!! Check this out !!! "
When he could have composed a nice Kurz solo that fit the music perfectly and nobody would have gone " this song really needs white noise played on an iPhone.... ::) "
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I think the AROP solo is JR's worst solo as well.
JP's worst might be Surrender to Reason (the second one) or You Not Me.
EDIT: Actually, I don't know what I'd say JP's worst solo was. I relistened to both StR's and YNM's and they're still listenable.
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I am a bit surprised about the hate towards AROP Bebot solo. For me, that was one of the highlights of BCASL. Come on, an iPad solo in 2009? It was also pretty much the coolest thing in the relatively weak Progressive Nation show in 2009 that I saw. I also like that the sounds have this analog synth vibe, although the solo was played as digitally as you can get.
The problem with the solo isn't that it was done on an iPad or that it sounds like an analog synth.
The problem is that the solo sucks. It's just random noise.
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I am a bit surprised about the hate towards AROP Bebot solo. For me, that was one of the highlights of BCASL. Come on, an iPad solo in 2009? It was also pretty much the coolest thing in the relatively weak Progressive Nation show in 2009 that I saw. I also like that the sounds have this analog synth vibe, although the solo was played as digitally as you can get.
The problem with the solo isn't that it was done on an iPad or that it sounds like an analog synth.
The problem is that the solo sucks. It's just random noise.
I love bebot. It's fun, new, and interesting. It's the highlight of a relatively weak song and the only one of Jordan's solos on BC&SL that's creative.
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Probably either the keyboard solo in Honor Thy Father (what a noisy mess) or The Test That Stumped Them All (just an ugly solo).
:omg: HTF solo is probably in my top 5. I find it very cool and atmospheric.
To each his own. I get that it fits the song, given the pace and anger of it, but those ripping solos, where JR sounds like he is bending every note into submission, often sound too noisy and messy when he plays them. It's like a flurry of notes coming at you with no rhyme or reason.
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Bebot clearly for JR. I do agree with the OP that TROAE is another low point, but Bebot clearly takes the cake.
JP...hmm...ANTR, maybe? Those solos come in from nowhere and go nowhere (not counting the cool one in the first verse). The Reckoning is another one in that mold.
The worst overall instrumental section is Outcry.
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The weakest, most uninspired solos are definitely on A Nightmare to Remember.
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The weakest, most uninspired solos are definitely on A Nightmare to Remember.
Yep that song is just long for the sake of it.
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I am surprised no one has mentioned bridges in the sky... while I love the song, the solo section is unnecessary. Both JP and JR play very uninspired solos that do nothing for the song.
Until ADToE, I always thought JR wrote hit or miss solos. It seems as though he now puts a little more thought into what he is playing when he solos. Don't get me wrong, Home and 8vm are phenomenal, but as far as the others go.. eh.. take it or leave it...
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The worst solo has got to be the Bebot solo. Come on.
Yeah. It's good how far have mobile instruments come, because back then they weren't good.
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I am surprised no one has mentioned bridges in the sky...
I think the majority (including me) hasn't mentioned it because they think it's an awesome section.
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I am surprised no one has mentioned bridges in the sky... while I love the song, the solo section is unnecessary. Both JP and JR play very uninspired solos that do nothing for the song. Until ADToE, I always thought JR wrote hit or miss solos. It seems as though he now puts a little more thought into what he is playing when he solos. Don't get me wrong, Home and 8vm are phenomenal, but as far as the others go.. eh.. take it or leave it...
Well, I think Bridges in the Sky is one of the rare song that feature a solo by both Jordan and John where I like Jordan's solo much more than JP's. And I feel Jordan's solo are better when he uses other sounds than his usual ''solo sound''. I'm thinking the organ-thing in Bridges in the Sky or the piano solos in Blind Faith and On the Backs of Angels for example.
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AROP is by far the worst because of the horrible Bebot and JP's uninspired solo, but ANTR, Enigma Machine and Surrender to Reason are all pretty bad too.
I am surprised no one has mentioned bridges in the sky... while I love the song, the solo section is unnecessary. Both JP and JR play very uninspired solos that do nothing for the song.
BITS actually has one of my favorite solo sections, because it's so memorable and doesn't go overboard with the shredding.
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I am surprised no one has mentioned bridges in the sky... while I love the song, the solo section is unnecessary. Both JP and JR play very uninspired solos that do nothing for the song.
Until ADToE, I always thought JR wrote hit or miss solos. It seems as though he now puts a little more thought into what he is playing when he solos. Don't get me wrong, Home and 8vm are phenomenal, but as far as the others go.. eh.. take it or leave it...
JP is consistently amazing with his solos, so that's a really tough one. I find the BITS solo somewhat forgettable, but it's not bad.
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A solo i don't care for is the BMU,BMD one, if that counts.
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I love the TROAE keyboard solo! It's one of the last times he busts out the classic fat Kurz lead, and it's one of my favs (also fun as hell to play along with, although I can't play the really fast ascending/descending runs). No part of it sounds random at all.
The only bad one is the AROP bebot solo, because it's completely atonal noise (the keyboard solo beforehand is great though).
JP is consistently amazing with his solos, so that's a really tough one. I find the BITS solo somewhat forgettable, but it's not bad. There's part of the LNF solo that I think is really weak, with the staccato rhythm, but then the rest of it is rockin'.
I'm sure his weakest is probably on WDADU just by default.
Nope, every solo of his on that album is great.
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These Walls
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For me, Enigma Machine holds the monopoly on senseless soloing. Like, none of the three soloers (JP, JR, MM) have anything to add with their solos.
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A solo i don't care for is the BMU,BMD one, if that counts.
Hmm, I thought that solo was one of the coolest parts of the song. I don't listen to it all to much anymore, but I liked the solo and even tried to learn it because it seemed much more feasible to get the hang of than a lot of others. :lol
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These Walls
Curses to you! That's one of JP's most tasteful melodic solos!
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Clamors for Dream Theater to be "actually" more progressive and push boundaries with their music! Be more experimental!
JP pushes boundaries of "music" with his double-reverse-guitar solo in Misunderstood and his balls-to-the-wall aggressive solo in Surrender to Reason.
Gets voted in weakest Dream Theater solo.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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The synth sound used in the Along for the Ride solo is horrendously cheesy, but the solo isn't THAT bad (The sound purely warrants a bad review). A write of passage was unique but just thrown in for the sake of it & misunderstood sounded like noise for the most part towards the end. So they're probably my worst 3!
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The bebot solo is my least favorite that I can remember. It just doesn't fit the song at all, in my opinion. JR's solo's in the main instrumental section of ANTR are very hit-or-miss, and seem to sound like a mix of random shredding with brief moments of fluidity and purpose.
As far as a guitar solo, right now I'd have to say the one from On The Backs Of Angels. It's very "average JP" in the way it's structured. The part directly after the solo is one of my favorite moments on that whole album, but the solo itself makes me feel like I've heard it before. I wouldn't even call it weak, just average.
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Not really a fan of any of Jordan's solos off of BCSL except the first half of the AROP one before the app noise. I'm also not that thrilled about most of Derek Sherinian's solos. For example I much prefer Jordan's version of Trial of Tears off the last live album instead. For Petrucci, probably something off of Train of Thought. I actually liked the solo in Surrender to Reason, thought it fits well with the groove underneath.
Portnoy's drum solos were always week too, IMO. I could never say that about Mangini though.
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I didn't realize the Bebot solo is atonal. Are most of JR's continuum solos also atonal? Maybe that explains why I hear them as just senseless noise.
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I didn't realize the Bebot solo is atonal. Are most of JR's continuum solos also atonal? Maybe that explains why I hear them as just senseless noise.
He's still playing in key if that's what you're wondering lol. It's only really accurate to use the term atonal when a piece of music is so inconsistent with it's key changes that it's no longer worth identifying (Or if it's using sounds that don't relate to western modes or standard intervals). Most atonal pieces will still have a generalised key though, albeit inconsistently. Of course in the context we're using, it's if we can't hear how a passage is relating to the original key then it might as well be atonal as far as we're concerned, ala Bebot! Sounds like something from a video game to me, I like it. :metal
The synth sound used in the Along for the Ride solo is horrendously cheesy, but the solo isn't THAT bad (The sound purely warrants a bad review).
So that's the sound cheese makes? I need to figure out how to get some more cheese in my synth sounds then because JRs tone in AFTR and to a similar extent in BTS is phenomenal. :biggrin:
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I'm resurrecting this thread in view of the recent hype for solos.
I think I'm far more experienced now than I was then with playing DT music.
TROAE keyboard solo isn't bad, it's fun to play, and it has a lot of possible ways to do it, it's just that it's very weak on record, personal opinion.
Bebot solo... well...
I've recently grown to slighty dislike the IT second half solos, like they're just "there" and not really doing anything to advance the song.
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Lol I just realized I posted almost the exact same thing last August... I will say that the lead after the second JR solo in ANTR makes it worth listening to.
The guitar solo in "As I am" is too shreddy for my liking. I usually skip this song when listening to Train Of Thought, and the solo is part of the reason why.