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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chino on July 30, 2015, 01:08:03 PM

Title: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Chino on July 30, 2015, 01:08:03 PM
Please don't turn this into a political debate.




I just came across this article one CNN Money.

https://money.cnn.com/2015/07/30/news/companies/gun-silencer-sales-up/index.html?iid=SF_LN

Quote
The number of registered silencers surged 38% from last year to 792,282 in February 2015, according to the most recent figures from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. There were 571,750 licenses in March 2014.

"It's getting to be more mainstream," said Josh Waldron, CEO of SilencerCo, which makes and sells silencers.
Waldron said his company has nearly doubled its workforce in the past year to 215 employees and also added more machinery as it tries to work through a backlog of orders.

I'm not trolling when I ask this. As someone whose looking at revolvers, I am genuinely curious. Why would someone buy a silencer? I can understand if you're a hunter and you don't want to scare game away, but is a silencer effective enough to prevent that? If it's for a home defense weapon (or I guess defense weapon in general), why spend the money on one? It seems like a complete waste of money to me. If there is an intruder or a threat, isn't the objective at that point to stop them? Why does the decibel level of the gun matter? I could see why people living near gun ranges would like gun owners to have silencers, but other than that, I can't really think of anything.

Educate me.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 30, 2015, 01:13:18 PM
I own (3) Hanguns, (2) shot guns and a Rifle. I personally don't see the need for a silencer at all. I'm not looking to take a stealth shot at anyone or anything. If I'm shooting my handgun(s) it's either target practice or I've been forced to use it in my home or when I'm conceal carrying...either of which I don't care if it's 'quiet'. Shooting my rifle will either be target practice or at a deer and I could care less if any other deer hang around after I shoot the first one.

What some people (who may not be in to guns) have to realize is that gun owners/collectors are no different to any other collector or sportsman. A fisherman has multiple poles...varying lures, someone who loves cars may have two or three or dozens of varying spec's. I guess my point is a silencer could just be an accessory like any other collector would obtain...just to have it to say you have it. I can't really see any practical use for it other than it being a novelty.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on July 30, 2015, 01:29:40 PM
Yup. It's the novelty of it. That said, it used to be common to go out shooting and not take along hearing protection, so I can certainly see how people of that mindset might want some dBs knocked off of it. I doubt it's the case, but if it does quiet it enough to the point that hearing damage isn't a concern, then more power to you.

Also, while nobody who's forced to shoot at an intruder is going to take the time to put on his suppressor, I'd think that it would actually be an asset if it were already installed. I agree with GMD that it's the least of one's concerns in that situation, but at the same time if I had to shoot an intruder I'd just as soon not have to spend the next 2 days with a deafening ringing in my ears.

In Die Hard 3, after shooting all of the fake cops in the elevator John McClain would have spent he last hour of the movie just saying "huh? What? Yeah, quarter past 3."
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: rumborak on July 30, 2015, 01:53:12 PM
What's the downside to them? Making the gun unwieldy? Or does it also affect the accuracy of the gun?
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Chino on July 30, 2015, 01:54:37 PM
What's the downside to them? Making the gun unwieldy? Or does it also affect the accuracy of the gun?

According to Grand Theft Auto V, they negative effect accuracy and distance.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 30, 2015, 01:59:18 PM
What's the downside to them? Making the gun unwieldy? Or does it also affect the accuracy of the gun?

I've never fired a weapon with one installed....but I think those are two good assumptions. Being that hanguns are designed with certain balance points I'd bet the additional length of the silencer would throw the balance off. And, being that the barrels are designed with a certain boring to affect the spin of the bullet...that extra length and (most likely) change of bore type would affect accuracy as well.

I think it'd be neat to fired some rounds off with one but I don't see me ever wanting to purchase one. Maybe the influx in sales is paranoia that they aren't going to be available much longer?
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Chino on July 30, 2015, 02:03:22 PM
I think it'd be neat to fired some rounds off with one but I don't see me ever wanting to purchase one. Maybe the influx in sales is paranoia that they aren't going to be available much longer?

Or martial law is coming and war is on the horizon  :lol
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 30, 2015, 02:14:16 PM
I think it'd be neat to fired some rounds off with one but I don't see me ever wanting to purchase one. Maybe the influx in sales is paranoia that they aren't going to be available much longer?

Or martial law is coming and war is on the horizon  :lol

I'll just use a flash light housing like Rick Grimes!
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: cramx3 on July 30, 2015, 02:32:45 PM
If I owned a gun and if I went to shooting ranges, I think using a silencer would be cool.  But would I buy one?  I haven't bought a gun yet although I think about getting one more often than I used to.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Stadler on July 30, 2015, 03:28:10 PM
Formerly a registered gun owner, who let his license lapse and who won't have weapons in the house while there are children under the age of 18...

Silencers do affect the balance of the gun, which can be overcome by practice, and as El Barto said, it is an advantage for those that use their weapons often at ranges.   I think it is subject to the specific circumstances as to the effect on accuracy:  generally, a longer barrel will improve accuracy if the barrel is uniform; having the silencer attached after the fact introduces manufacturing error which probably leads to lesser accuracy.   They affect distance (and therefore long range accuracy) by slowing down the bullet as it leaves the barrel (due to increased friction). 

For me, who would only own for home protection (I am not a hunter) I would not purchase a silencer.  If someone is in my house and I am taking a shot at them, I either want to hit them, or, if I miss, I want them stunned and petrified at the absolute deafening crescendo of my weapon, waiting for that next explosion.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on July 30, 2015, 03:37:11 PM
Since the suppressor is larger than the barrel of the gun, I'm not sure why it would actually effect accuracy. It wouldn't change the spin (I don't think) since the bullet shouldn't come into contact with any part of the suppressor. There would be a difference in the air pressure around it, but since the gas would be expanding away from the projectile in either case I don't know as that would have any effect.

If you're a hunter I could see how it might be nice to have. Since you're going to spend the better part of your time not shooting at anything, it'd be annoying to have to wear ear protection all day long. From what I can tell a good suppressor actually can knock the dBs down to a reasonable level.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: jingle.boy on July 30, 2015, 05:01:30 PM
"Hitman" as a profession is growing.  It's the only logical conclusion.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Cable on July 30, 2015, 08:37:56 PM
Disclosure- a non gun owner, and I don't intend on being one. But respect the rights and laws.

I am still interested in gun technology and what not. That said, I have watched enough videos on people using "silencers", some home brew. As El Barto said, and Stadler touched upon, they reduce dBs/loudness primarily. I think some might reduce flash or smoke, but not sure. Check them out on the uTubes. Guys do plenty of before and afters. The actual term has accurately been suppressor, as nothing now will "silence" a gun.

Unfortunately movies has made them seem awesome, and relatively small. To get a true silencer sound ala movies, I reckon the silencer with current tech would double the size of the gun at the least. I think a good analogy is using an attenuator or wattage selection on a tube instrument amplifier. It will slice off some dBs, but not enough to make it bedroom level quiet. Or in the case of guns, quiet enough to not hear it in a building.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on July 30, 2015, 09:41:39 PM
Seems a good silencer can actually reduce the dBs to a point that won't freak your ears out on the range. Last time I checked Youtube videos I was unimpressed. Seen several now that did impress me. Here's FPSRussia with a .45 getting pretty impressive results. Like he correctly said, you're not going to kill the guards downstairs while the governor is upstairs sleeping, but you could certainly spend a day plinking without going home deaf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dYX-h-5HDQ
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 30, 2015, 10:49:22 PM
Like he correctly said, you're not going to kill the guards downstairs while the governor is upstairs sleeping, but you could certainly spend a day plinking without going home deaf.

Until Mythbusters tested it a couple of years ago, I always thought silencers were just like the movies, where you shoot someone silently in the night and it just makes that tiny "pew" noise they always use. :lol

WHAT ELSE HAVE THE MOVIES LIED ABOUT?
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: rumborak on July 30, 2015, 11:19:15 PM
WHAT ELSE HAVE THE MOVIES LIED ABOUT?

That's 50% of all Mythbusters episodes, right there.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: cramx3 on July 31, 2015, 05:27:01 AM
Seems a good silencer can actually reduce the dBs to a point that won't freak your ears out on the range. Last time I checked Youtube videos I was unimpressed. Seen several now that did impress me. Here's FPSRussia with a .45 getting pretty impressive results. Like he correctly said, you're not going to kill the guards downstairs while the governor is upstairs sleeping, but you could certainly spend a day plinking without going home deaf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dYX-h-5HDQ

I dont watch FPSrussia enough, that is really awesome.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Chino on July 31, 2015, 05:49:04 AM
Seems a good silencer can actually reduce the dBs to a point that won't freak your ears out on the range. Last time I checked Youtube videos I was unimpressed. Seen several now that did impress me. Here's FPSRussia with a .45 getting pretty impressive results. Like he correctly said, you're not going to kill the guards downstairs while the governor is upstairs sleeping, but you could certainly spend a day plinking without going home deaf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dYX-h-5HDQ

I dont watch FPSrussia enough, that is really awesome.

FPS Russia is my third favorite Youtube person.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: jingle.boy on July 31, 2015, 06:53:07 AM
Like he correctly said, you're not going to kill the guards downstairs while the governor is upstairs sleeping, but you could certainly spend a day plinking without going home deaf.

Until Mythbusters tested it a couple of years ago, I always thought silencers were just like the movies, where you shoot someone silently in the night and it just makes that tiny "pew" noise they always use. :lol

WHAT ELSE HAVE THE MOVIES LIED ABOUT?

Surely professional assassins and covert government spies have access to technology the average Texan wouldn't.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 31, 2015, 06:58:21 AM
Like he correctly said, you're not going to kill the guards downstairs while the governor is upstairs sleeping, but you could certainly spend a day plinking without going home deaf.

Until Mythbusters tested it a couple of years ago, I always thought silencers were just like the movies, where you shoot someone silently in the night and it just makes that tiny "pew" noise they always use. :lol

WHAT ELSE HAVE THE MOVIES LIED ABOUT?

Surely professional assassins and covert government spies have access to technology the average Texan wouldn't.

But so should the Mythbusters!
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 31, 2015, 07:39:13 AM
Like he correctly said, you're not going to kill the guards downstairs while the governor is upstairs sleeping, but you could certainly spend a day plinking without going home deaf.

Until Mythbusters tested it a couple of years ago, I always thought silencers were just like the movies, where you shoot someone silently in the night and it just makes that tiny "pew" noise they always use. :lol

WHAT ELSE HAVE THE MOVIES LIED ABOUT?

Surely professional assassins and covert government spies have access to technology the average Texan wouldn't.
You don't know many Texans, do you?
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on August 01, 2015, 12:25:04 AM
If it did zero harm to my gun sure!  It would be kind of cool, plus the reduced noise and hearing protection aspect.  But I live in Cali, it's all a pipe dream... :lol
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on March 14, 2017, 06:30:32 AM
I am thinking about getting my first one. After reviewing a bunch of different ones, The Glock 19 seems to have caught my eye. Its either that or a beretta M9, but I think I might settle on the Glock

Anyone have any experience with either of them?
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: cramx3 on March 14, 2017, 06:48:05 AM
If I owned a gun and if I went to shooting ranges, I think using a silencer would be cool.  But would I buy one?  I haven't bought a gun yet although I think about getting one more often than I used to.

Wow I must of foresaw my future as last year I did go to a shooting range for the first time and shot a gun that had a silencer, which was fun.  And I still don't own a gun nor feel the need to atm.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Stadler on March 14, 2017, 08:37:52 AM
What's the downside to them? Making the gun unwieldy? Or does it also affect the accuracy of the gun?

According to Grand Theft Auto V, they negative effect accuracy and distance.

According to real life, they negatively affect the weight and balance of the weapon, which in turn COULD affect the accuracy and distance; you have to "zero out", or calibrate, the weapon with the silencer.   They also aren't very effective; it's not like on TV where the gun goes "spit, spit".  It's still very loud (in some cases, still in the range to damage your hearing).   They can be very expensive, they need their own permit in most jurisdictions, and they get HOT.   Think of a muffler.   My dad and brother are collectors, and while I have my permit, I don't own a weapon (haven't since I had my daughter; I still have young kids in the house, so even though I grew up with them in the house - and knew DAMN WELL not to touch them - I don't want to take the chance). 
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 14, 2017, 09:07:02 AM
I am thinking about getting my first one. After reviewing a bunch of different ones, The Glock 19 seems to have caught my eye. Its either that or a beretta M9, but I think I might settle on the Glock

Anyone have any experience with either of them?

I've never fired the Beretta but I have fired the Glock 19. As with all glocks that I've fired it was 'fun' to shoot. The trigger pull isn't bad at all....and the grip is easy and comfortable. Good thing about the 19 is that if you wanted you could use it as a Conceal Weapon as it's a tad smaller than the typical models. Plus, it's a glock. It's made to be fired...a lot...and is very durable. Great gun to have for outdoor type activities like camping or carrying with you while you hunt as it's tough to 'hurt'.

I don't know anything about the Beretta. If it were me and I had a choice I'd probably go Glock but honestly, if you're considering it you should find a Shooting Range/store that has them both to where you can fire each one and see how it feels to you. Everyone is different.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on March 14, 2017, 09:54:20 AM
I am thinking about getting my first one. After reviewing a bunch of different ones, The Glock 19 seems to have caught my eye. Its either that or a beretta M9, but I think I might settle on the Glock

Anyone have any experience with either of them?
One is hammerless and the other is not. That makes it a matter of personal preference. I opted for a SigPRO and a big part of the decision is that I wanted the tactile/visual cues of having a hammer in place. Others specifically do not want the hammer exposed.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on March 27, 2018, 09:31:12 AM
Well I just bought my first ever handgun.

I went with the Beretta 92FS. I got to try my buddies out over the weekend at the range and it was great. Felt very comfortable and felt like a good fit overall, so I decided to get one myself.

Looking forward to taking it to the range.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: XJDenton on March 29, 2018, 07:16:15 AM
WHAT ELSE HAVE THE MOVIES LIED ABOUT?

That's 50% of all Mythbusters episodes, right there.

Well its called "Mythbusters" not "Hey, movies are in fact pretty accurate most of the time"
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 07, 2018, 11:50:06 AM
Anyone else do target shooting?

I just took my new Beretta to range for the first time the other day and I had a ton of fun. Overall, I was really happy with how the 92FS performed. The recoil wasn't bad at all and this thing was very accurate. I tried lots of different distances and was able to still hit at least one part of the target. My only issue was some jamming at first, but I really feel it was more a limp wrist thing and getting used to the gun, and perhaps even some break in. But it got better as I fired more rounds.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on April 07, 2018, 12:01:44 PM
Anyone else do target shooting?

I just took my new Beretta to range for the first time the other day and I had a ton of fun. Overall, I was really happy with how the 92FS performed. The recoil wasn't bad at all and this thing was very accurate. I tried lots of different distances and was able to still hit at least one part of the target. My only issue was some jamming at first, but I really feel it was more a limp wrist thing and getting used to the gun, and perhaps even some break in. But it got better as I fired more rounds.
I'm not generally in a position to drop money on a trip to the range. Range fees aren't cheap, and ammo isn't either. It used to be that we could drive an hour and shoot all day for free on federal land. Texas has commandeered it all now, so there isn't any more free land to shoot on.

If you were shooting with cheap Russian ammo from Walmart that might lead to some of your jamming trouble. I think I've had some trouble with Academy's cheapo ammunition, as well.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 07, 2018, 12:32:28 PM
It was these Remingtons:

(https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/img/products/large/remington_umc_handgun_ammo_1224271_2.jpg)

To your knowledge, are these pretty decent? They had a whole bunch of different types of ammo brands, maybe I'll try a different brand next time.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on April 07, 2018, 12:39:05 PM
I have no idea if they're any good. I do know that Remington isn't going to sell ammo that'll jam your weapon. I'm talking about really cheap, dirty ammo from manufacturers you've never heard of. If you can afford those they should be fine to practice with.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 07, 2018, 12:58:59 PM
Ok cool. I'm just gonna continue to practice and see if I can cut down on the jammin issue. My friend said his is super reliable, so I think its an issue I can overcome.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on April 07, 2018, 03:50:07 PM
What's happening when it jams?
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 07, 2018, 05:17:39 PM
So I load a full magazine in. Get off like 12 of 15 round and then the next bullet jams as its being fed in. Kind of like this:

(https://www.xdtalk.com/attachments/2527/)

Like it doesn't feed in smooth.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 08, 2018, 08:56:10 AM
Have you administered a bit of gun oil in the small rails inside the lower half of the slide where they meet with the frame? Could just need some lubrication, especially if you’re just counting on the factory lubrication to still be effective.

EB has a good point with the ammo. I always steer clear of the discount rounds but it looks like you used Remington so they’re not discount by any means.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 08, 2018, 10:26:09 AM
The lubing is a good point. And I actually did do a full strip and cleaning/lubing after range day 1. So I'm looking forward to range day 2 which I will try and do this week.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Stadler on April 08, 2018, 11:43:35 AM
Short of shooting someone, the worst thing you can do with a gun is not clean and oil it religiously.   
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on April 11, 2018, 12:55:37 PM
Have you administered a bit of gun oil in the small rails inside the lower half of the slide where they meet with the frame? Could just need some lubrication, especially if you’re just counting on the factory lubrication to still be effective.

EB has a good point with the ammo. I always steer clear of the discount rounds but it looks like you used Remington so they’re not discount by any means.
  I use the remington white box rounds for the range.  My ammo guy cringes every time I buy them, he says they are really bad
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: bosk1 on April 11, 2018, 01:07:38 PM
Have you administered a bit of gun oil in the small rails inside the lower half of the slide where they meet with the frame? Could just need some lubrication, especially if you’re just counting on the factory lubrication to still be effective.

EB has a good point with the ammo. I always steer clear of the discount rounds but it looks like you used Remington so they’re not discount by any means.
  I use the remington white box rounds for the range.  My ammo guy cringes every time I buy them, he says they are really bad

Maybe, if you're shooting in competitions and putting tons of rounds through your gun.  But if you are doing 100-200 at the range once a month or less, and you do even a halfway decent cleaning after shooting, I wouldn't much care what other people think of your ammo choice unless it is really some off-brand, cheapo stuff like along the lines of what GMD and El Barto mentioned.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on April 11, 2018, 01:22:16 PM
Yeah, those white box Remingtons are pretty disliked. Like Bosk said, I'm fairly indifferent to what I run through at the range. Afterwards I go home, clean the weapon, and load it with good ammo. I typically buy Academy's cheapo brand (I think it's Monarch), and while I wouldn't take the stuff to a gunfight, I've had no problem target shooting with it.

The cheapo Russian ammo from Walmart is TullAmmo. Steel cases and pretty dirty. I still wouldn't worry too much about it for range shooting, though.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on April 11, 2018, 06:10:35 PM
Yeah, those white box Remingtons are pretty disliked. Like Bosk said, I'm fairly indifferent to what I run through at the range. Afterwards I go home, clean the weapon, and load it with good ammo. I typically buy Academy's cheapo brand (I think it's Monarch), and while I wouldn't take the stuff to a gunfight, I've had no problem target shooting with it.

The cheapo Russian ammo from Walmart is TullAmmo. Steel cases and pretty dirty. I still wouldn't worry too much about it for range shooting, though.

Yeah I use the tulammo for my AR at the range. 
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 11, 2018, 06:16:08 PM
What type of AR do you have?

I'm looking in to getting my first and I was thinking either the Diamondback DB15  or maybe the Colt 6920.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on April 12, 2018, 07:42:20 AM
I have a  Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport II .  I've done some mods but nothing major.  Also have a Glock 19 and a Mossberg 500 shotgun.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Stadler on April 12, 2018, 07:46:14 AM
A few mods?  Nothing major? 

(https://i.imgur.com/qbMzcWW.jpg)
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: AngelBack on April 12, 2018, 07:50:37 AM
My "bedside" is a Ruger .45 semi-auto.  Salesman recommended Hornady critical defense 185 gram with flex tip.  I'm no expert on ammo and tend to go with recommendations.  I'll fire the house brand at the range but as my oldest recently joined the reserves, he gets to clean and oil afterwards.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on April 12, 2018, 08:02:22 AM
A few mods?  Nothing major? 

(https://i.imgur.com/qbMzcWW.jpg)
  :lol  Pretty much!
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on April 12, 2018, 08:04:06 AM
My "bedside" is a Ruger .45 semi-auto.  Salesman recommended Hornady critical defense 185 gram with flex tip.  I'm no expert on ammo and tend to go with recommendations.  I'll fire the house brand at the range but as my oldest recently joined the reserves, he gets to clean and oil afterwards.

I use the Hornady CD also.  Great stuff, just a bit pricey.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 12, 2018, 09:14:28 AM
I have a  Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport II .  I've done some mods but nothing major.  Also have a Glock 19 and a Mossberg 500 shotgun.

Very nice.


So I just got back from range day #2 with the Beretta and I am happy to say that it didn't jam even once. I am very pleased. Thanks to everyone for the advice on the jamming issue.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on April 12, 2018, 10:18:15 AM


Very nice.


So I just got back from range day #2 with the Beretta and I am happy to say that it didn't jam even once. I am very pleased. Thanks to everyone for the advice on the jamming issue.
  I need to get to the range, it's been a lil over a year.  I prefer our outdoor range, for rifle and shotgun, but it's so damn far.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 12, 2018, 11:26:09 AM
If funny. I just kind of randomly went one day for the hell of it, but Its really turning into a passion for me.

And all of my friends are in to it as well, so its a lot of fun.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on April 12, 2018, 01:55:46 PM
I enjoy it too!  Unfortunately my crappy state (California) is sucking all the fun out of it.  4 more years and I'm retired and out of here!!
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on April 12, 2018, 03:35:24 PM
I enjoy it too!  Unfortunately my crappy state (California) is sucking all the fun out of it.  4 more years and I'm retired and out of here!!
Ironically, it's actually far easier to shoot on public land in your state. Whole lot of BLM land in Cali. Texas has a good deal of national grassland, but the state declared it all animal refuge territory. Somewhere out there is a former Lt. Governor that owns a chain of gun ranges, I figure.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on April 12, 2018, 04:55:38 PM
I enjoy it too!  Unfortunately my crappy state (California) is sucking all the fun out of it.  4 more years and I'm retired and out of here!!
Ironically, it's actually far easier to shoot on public land in your state. Whole lot of BLM land in Cali. Texas has a good deal of national grassland, but the state declared it all animal refuge territory. Somewhere out there is a former Lt. Governor that owns a chain of gun ranges, I figure.
  Funny you mention the BLM land.  I did a bit of research on it a few years ago and while on the surface everything seem legit, I vaguely remember reading some contradictory things.  Or things that made it seem not such a straightforward  deal.  Regardless, I live in the heart of SoCal.  Don't think there is any BLM land near by.  :lol
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on April 12, 2018, 05:19:23 PM
I enjoy it too!  Unfortunately my crappy state (California) is sucking all the fun out of it.  4 more years and I'm retired and out of here!!
Ironically, it's actually far easier to shoot on public land in your state. Whole lot of BLM land in Cali. Texas has a good deal of national grassland, but the state declared it all animal refuge territory. Somewhere out there is a former Lt. Governor that owns a chain of gun ranges, I figure.
  Funny you mention the BLM land.  I did a bit of research on it a few years ago and while on the surface everything seem legit, I vaguely remember reading some contradictory things.  Or things that made it seem not such a straightforward  deal.  Regardless, I live in the heart of SoCal.  Don't think there is any BLM land near by.  :lol
BLM land is by default open to shooting (along with national parks, forests, and grasslands). They might put in place seasonal restrictions due to fire concerns, and the state might have a reason to prohibit it, as well. Just picking the one closest to you and checking their site should tell you what's up. In your case you're probably looking at Beauty Mountain Wilderness. Barring a fire restriction there is no prohibition on shooting.

When I was a kid my old man took us up to the national grasslands in Decatur to shoot four or five times year. Find a spot with a natural backstop that's not close to other people you might bother, and have at. Good times.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 24, 2018, 03:30:29 PM
Well, I got my AR-15 today. This thing is crazy, it makes my Beretta look like a pea shooter. And honestly, this is the first time in my life that I have ever held an AR and I have to admit, its pretty surreal.

Gonna take it to the range later in the week.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 25, 2018, 02:51:30 PM
Question about the concealed carry license, since I just got mine.

If I get pulled over, but have no guns on me or in the car, do I have to tell the officer that I have a concealed carry license or is this just if I have weapons on me?
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on April 25, 2018, 03:04:06 PM
Question about the concealed carry license, since I just got mine.

If I get pulled over, but have no guns on me or in the car, do I have to tell the officer that I have a concealed carry license or is this just if I have weapons on me?
They didn't teach you this at concealed carry school? Damn. Uh, what state are you from?
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 25, 2018, 03:11:16 PM
PA

Which is basically the wild west. Theres no classes for anything. I just filled out a form, gave em 19 bucks and they issued the permit shortly there after.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on April 25, 2018, 03:32:07 PM
PA

Which is basically the wild west. Theres no classes for anything. I just filled out a form, gave em 19 bucks and they issued the permit shortly there after.
And this is why "reciprocity," as those nimrods in congress laughingly call it, is bullshit.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 25, 2018, 07:24:01 PM
PA

Which is basically the wild west. Theres no classes for anything. I just filled out a form, gave em 19 bucks and they issued the permit shortly there after.

As a guy who has conceal carried for coming up on 10 years now.....I cannot understand how a class isn't required in every state. 8-10 hours of listening to and breaking down the laws and then having to qualify in a shooting test is not that much to ask when considering the huge responsibility involved.

Even my state, Missouri, passed a 'Constitutional Carry' law a year and a half ago. No class needed....don't even have to pay a fee.....just conceal away. It's the dumbest thing in the world. I still maintain my CCW license because God forbid I ever am forced to use my weapon I'll have a documented record of me filing my paper work every 5 years....I keep a pretty detailed shooting log of when I shoot at the range to count the rounds I've fired through my gun...I guess my point is taking a class should be a minimum requirement to conceal carry...everywhere. It's unreal that it's not.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on April 25, 2018, 10:28:50 PM
PA

Which is basically the wild west. Theres no classes for anything. I just filled out a form, gave em 19 bucks and they issued the permit shortly there after.

As a guy who has conceal carried for coming up on 10 years now.....I cannot understand how a class isn't required in every state. 8-10 hours of listening to and breaking down the laws and then having to qualify in a shooting test is not that much to ask when considering the huge responsibility involved.

Even my state, Missouri, passed a 'Constitutional Carry' law a year and a half ago. No class needed....don't even have to pay a fee.....just conceal away. It's the dumbest thing in the world. I still maintain my CCW license because God forbid I ever am forced to use my weapon I'll have a documented record of me filing my paper work every 5 years....I keep a pretty detailed shooting log of when I shoot at the range to count the rounds I've fired through my gun...I guess my point is taking a class should be a minimum requirement to conceal carry...everywhere. It's unreal that it's not.
And if the dipshits in then Senate go along with the house that would be the standard for every state whether they wanted it or not. Texas requires a sound moral character, a 6-8 hour class on the law, and a test of handgun proficiency. The least you can do, in my book. Yet people from AZ, which has no permit requirement whatsoever will be allowed to carry with no vetting process at all. State's rights! Fuck Yeah!
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 26, 2018, 04:33:57 AM
Wow, I had no idea. I really would have preferred some kind of class and the shooting test makes sense as well.

And I would have preferred a class because the application had no information on it. It was just my information that I had to fill out. I searched the state government website for info and responsibilities as well and can't find anything in line with basic questions I wanted to know about. So I am in the dark for the moment.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: jingle.boy on April 26, 2018, 04:56:47 AM
State's rights! Fuck Yeah!

All hail 2A

(https://replygif.net/i/1309.gif)
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 26, 2018, 06:43:27 AM
Wow, I had no idea. I really would have preferred some kind of class and the shooting test makes sense as well.

And I would have preferred a class because the application had no information on it. It was just my information that I had to fill out. I searched the state government website for info and responsibilities as well and can't find anything in line with basic questions I wanted to know about. So I am in the dark for the moment.

When I got mine I took an 8 hour class where we were ran through the law, listened to different scenarios and what ‘should’ be the response....went through a bit of gun safety and then we had to qualify with a revolver and semi automatic handgun. I believe it was all (10) of your shots had to be within the target boundaries from 15 foot. It’s not that difficult a shot but it proves you can at least aim a bit.

Like I said and EB mentioned.....at minimum a class and operational qualification should be mandatory. This is where that whole ‘common sense’ gun law idea comes in because jeez....it’s just common sense.

But if anything has been disproven in recent years it’s that common sense really is no longer that common.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 26, 2018, 07:01:44 AM
Wow, I had no idea. I really would have preferred some kind of class and the shooting test makes sense as well.

And I would have preferred a class because the application had no information on it. It was just my information that I had to fill out. I searched the state government website for info and responsibilities as well and can't find anything in line with basic questions I wanted to know about. So I am in the dark for the moment.

Hey, PA resident here. Used to have my concealed carry permit, let it expire and haven't had time to get back in to renew.

It's true, in PA, the process is insanely simple, I was in and out in 30 minutes with my permit in hand.

To your original question, if you get pulled over and don't have a gun with you, I wouldn't bring it up.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 26, 2018, 07:03:37 AM
Wow, I had no idea. I really would have preferred some kind of class and the shooting test makes sense as well.

And I would have preferred a class because the application had no information on it. It was just my information that I had to fill out. I searched the state government website for info and responsibilities as well and can't find anything in line with basic questions I wanted to know about. So I am in the dark for the moment.

Hey, PA resident here. Used to have my concealed carry permit, let it expire and haven't had time to get back in to renew.

It's true, in PA, the process is insanely simple, I was in and out in 30 minutes with my permit in hand.

To your original question, if you get pulled over and don't have a gun with you, I wouldn't bring it up.


Makes sense. That's pretty much what I was thinking, but its good to get a second confirmation. Thanks
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 26, 2018, 07:22:17 AM

Makes sense. That's pretty much what I was thinking, but its good to get a second confirmation. Thanks

Yup, no prob. I've actually never been pulled over with a gun in the car, I've only been pulled over a couple times since I became a gun owner/permit carrier and I happened to not have my gun with me. Just didn't bring it up, didn't see the need to mention guns to the police seeing how I didn't even have it with me.

If you do get pulled over with your gun in PA though, I recommend handing the officer your permit with your license and registration and calming stating that you have a concealed carry permit and have a gun in the glove box or where ever. I've been in the car with a couple buddies who got pulled over while they had their weapons in the car, and the officers have always been fine with that approach.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: bosk1 on April 26, 2018, 08:39:03 AM
Wow, it blows my mind that conceal carry permits are so easy to get in a few states.  That's just dumb.  Here in CA, I think the process is TOO strict (clarification--the way the rules are written, they're fine; I only have a problem with how they are applied in a lot of counties).  But I'm dumbfounded that there is virtually no process in apparently at least a few states.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 26, 2018, 08:43:43 AM
If you do get pulled over with your gun in PA though, I recommend handing the officer your permit with your license and registration and calming stating that you have a concealed carry permit and have a gun in the glove box or where ever. I've been in the car with a couple buddies who got pulled over while they had their weapons in the car, and the officers have always been fine with that approach.

Yep. I've been pulled over three times with my weapon on me. Each time I've kept my hands at 10/2 and told the Officer I had a conceal carry permit and had my weapon on me. In all three instances they thanked me for telling them and pretty much dropped it after that.

Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: El Barto on April 26, 2018, 09:02:07 AM
I got pulled over one time with a weapon in the car. I eventually mentioned it when the cop kept pestering me about the various stuff in my car, but he really didn't care about that. He was laser focused on drug interdiction, so if he wasn't going to seize my car and belongings he didn't care what else might have been going on.

My general rule is that my lawful business doesn't concern Johnny. If I've got a weapon in my car he won't see it and won't need to know about it. If he asks me to step out of the car for some reason I'll absolutely bring it to his attention because then it does concern him. While we are a permit state the Texas version of peaceable journey allows for carrying to, from, and within your car without one, so it's not really necessary.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 26, 2018, 09:10:52 AM
Wow, it blows my mind that conceal carry permits are so easy to get in a few states.  That's just dumb.  Here in CA, I think the process is TOO strict (clarification--the way the rules are written, they're fine; I only have a problem with how they are applied in a lot of counties).  But I'm dumbfounded that there is virtually no process in apparently at least a few states.

The process I went through in PA - Went to the court house office that handles concealed carry permits, filled out a form (which included authorization for background check and references), waited for like 15 minutes, went into an office, answered a few basic questions, got my picture taken, and was handed my permit.

Left about 30 minutes after I arrived. I felt like I had just gotten away with something. That said, this was probably 7 years ago (or more) so maybe the process has changed and is more detailed now.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: bosk1 on April 26, 2018, 09:12:17 AM
Wow, it blows my mind that conceal carry permits are so easy to get in a few states.  That's just dumb.  Here in CA, I think the process is TOO strict (clarification--the way the rules are written, they're fine; I only have a problem with how they are applied in a lot of counties).  But I'm dumbfounded that there is virtually no process in apparently at least a few states.

The process I went through in PA - Went to the court house office that handles concealed carry permits, filled out a form (which included authorization for background check and references), waited for like 15 minutes, went into an office, answered a few basic questions, got my picture taken, and was handed my permit.

Left about 30 minutes after I arrived. I felt like I had just gotten away with something. That said, this was probably 7 years ago (or more) so maybe the process has changed and is more detailed now.

Wow.  Even just buying a gun here is MUCH more involved than that.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 26, 2018, 09:47:36 AM
My general rule is that my lawful business doesn't concern Johnny. If I've got a weapon in my car he won't see it and won't need to know about it. If he asks me to step out of the car for some reason I'll absolutely bring it to his attention because then it does concern him. While we are a permit state the Texas version of peaceable journey allows for carrying to, from, and within your car without one, so it's not really necessary.

With Missouri's CCW being tied into the Department of Motor Vehicles, I know that once a Cop gets back to his car and runs my license he'll see that I have a CCW. So, I just tell him right off the bat so that he doesn't get to his car and say to himself...."Why didn't he tell me about this...is he trying to hide something?" I just get it out of the way so there is no confusion.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: bosk1 on April 26, 2018, 09:50:37 AM
My general rule is that my lawful business doesn't concern Johnny. If I've got a weapon in my car he won't see it and won't need to know about it. If he asks me to step out of the car for some reason I'll absolutely bring it to his attention because then it does concern him. While we are a permit state the Texas version of peaceable journey allows for carrying to, from, and within your car without one, so it's not really necessary.

With Missouri's CCW being tied into the Department of Motor Vehicles, I know that once a Cop gets back to his car and runs my license he'll see that I have a CCW. So, I just tell him right off the bat so that he doesn't get to his car and say to himself...."Why didn't he tell me about this...is he trying to hide something?" I just get it out of the way so there is no confusion.

Just out of curiosity, and not in any way implying that I think there is necessarily a right or wrong thing to do here:  Do you ONLY say, "By the way, officer, I have my CCW?"  Or do you say something like, "Just so you know, I have my CCW, and my weapon is stowed in ________?" or "Just so you know, I have my CCW, but am not currently carrying?"  Or something like that?
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 26, 2018, 11:02:07 AM
My general rule is that my lawful business doesn't concern Johnny. If I've got a weapon in my car he won't see it and won't need to know about it. If he asks me to step out of the car for some reason I'll absolutely bring it to his attention because then it does concern him. While we are a permit state the Texas version of peaceable journey allows for carrying to, from, and within your car without one, so it's not really necessary.

With Missouri's CCW being tied into the Department of Motor Vehicles, I know that once a Cop gets back to his car and runs my license he'll see that I have a CCW. So, I just tell him right off the bat so that he doesn't get to his car and say to himself...."Why didn't he tell me about this...is he trying to hide something?" I just get it out of the way so there is no confusion.

Just out of curiosity, and not in any way implying that I think there is necessarily a right or wrong thing to do here:  Do you ONLY say, "By the way, officer, I have my CCW?"  Or do you say something like, "Just so you know, I have my CCW, and my weapon is stowed in ________?" or "Just so you know, I have my CCW, but am not currently carrying?"  Or something like that?

I don’t remember verbatim but it was along the lines of (while hands still on wheel) “Just so you know Officer I have a conceal carry permit and I do have my weapon on me. It’s on my right hip”.....one time it was in my console so I told him that location.

And as I said....all three times they basically said Thanks for letting me know and never batted an eye.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on May 15, 2018, 09:48:19 AM
Took the AR-15 to the range for the first time today. Man... I am shocked how little recoil it had and damn it is crazy accurate, even at long distance. I am very impressed.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 15, 2018, 09:51:14 AM
Took the AR-15 to the range for the first time today. Man... I am shocked how little recoil it had and damn it is crazy accurate, even at long distance. I am very impressed.

They are fun to shoot for sure. Can get REAL expensive  :lol
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: bosk1 on May 15, 2018, 10:04:18 AM
Took the AR-15 to the range for the first time today. Man... I am shocked how little recoil it had and damn it is crazy accurate, even at long distance. I am very impressed.

Yeah, it's basically a pea-shooter.  I think that's why it is so easy for the military to take your average 18-year old who has never fired a rifle before, and turn him into a marksman after a few weeks of training. 
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on May 15, 2018, 10:28:37 AM
Oh definitely. When I went to pull the trigger for the first time, I was expecting some huge explosion or something, but no, it was super subtle.

The only thing I would like to modify is put some better sights on it. The stock metal sights were ok, but I would love to put a glass scope sight on it.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: YtseBitsySpider on May 16, 2018, 10:53:32 AM
well...chiming in from Canada here...where we make California gun laws look like Christmas.

before I add anything further - I'll say this is the best gun conversation I've read EVER...and shock of shocks it's by mostly gun owners.

My son and I went to the range. A guy at the office (not a cop) has a large collection of guns, mostly restricted and he has permits for them and some interesting grandfathered permits. He brought a model of a glock I'm not sure which model . A .38 special....big long barrel looked like something Clint Eastwood would shoot (easily the funnest of the three) and an AR with scope and laser sight...how easy did that make things.

We had a blast. Very safe at the range. There's a range safety officer there, he clears all weapons before we can go to inspect targets, he gave everyone there a pre-shoot pep talk about 5 minutes long..basic safety stuff.

some points:
-shooting straight with a hand gun is tricky. I don't know our distance but I was hitting the body but usually not where I thought it would go. Even head shots were tough.
-glocks have no safety......eeek.
-there was a competition shooter there and he was stooopid good.
-Hollywood mybuster alert - shooting with one hand like in the movies is VERY hard.
-the AR I shot is completely disabled in Canada. The mag can't hold more than 5 rounds (there's a bolt welded in the magazine preventing it) it's single shot. Not even semi-auto. In theory it shouldn't be a restricted weapon except for it's looks. There are much more powerful hunting rifles out there.

Finally when we were done - my son (15) asked what the range safety officers thought of American's and their gun culture. He was quite positive. "99% of them know MORE than enough to own, carry, conceal, clean, shoot, and be around guns. In some states it's almost like us and hockey - we're born wearing skates/holding sticks. They're fathers and mothers take them out and get them shooting young. How to hold, care for, and be safe with firearms. It's the ease at which that misguided 1% can get their hands on them that is the concern. And, that same 1% in Canada or any other country will find a way to get their hands on one"

it was an interesting take.
Please carry on.
great gun talk.
He almost convinced me to take the course. It's 350$ here and a full weekend 8hrs Sat and Sun, for the restricted firearms permit. In class, and range.

ytse
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Stadler on May 16, 2018, 11:33:31 AM
-Hollywood mybuster alert - shooting with one hand like in the movies is VERY hard.

Don't even get me started; those a-holes that hold the gun sideways, or even slightly upside down.... hey dude, make sure you check the doorframe and back wall before you go, because that's where your bullets are going to be.    And the people that use the middle finger as a trigger finger (not great, but not the worst thing in the world) but then extend their index finger along the barrel of the gun... physics, people!   Basic thermodynamics!   That barrel is going to get hot at some point!  And the people that squeeze the trigger like they're pounding a PS3 game controller...  breathe, even squeezes, and you'll have as many bullets, accurately fired, as you will mashing the controls like a noob. 

I get it; it's a dash of realism for a gang member or kid who doesn't and wouldn't know better, but from cops who would presumably be trained to operate their firearm?  Inexcusable in my book.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: YtseBitsySpider on May 16, 2018, 11:48:32 AM
 the grip - well that was my question to our owner (my son and I had never fired anything ever)
I had heard stories of new recruits at the academy getting pinched by the slide up around their thumb

I didn't want that to happen.
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 16, 2018, 03:26:51 PM
I have a fireproof safe which is where I store my Baretta.  Is it ok to store ammunition in there as well? Is it too dry in there? Are there any issues storing ammo in a fireproof safe?
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on September 09, 2018, 06:09:17 AM
So I really like my Beretta 92FS, but its not really working out as well for concealed carry as I was originally hoping. My friend got to try it out and loves it, so I was thinking about selling it to him and trying a glock 19 instead. Smaller, but not super small.

Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on September 09, 2018, 10:03:26 AM
So I really like my Beretta 92FS, but its not really working out as well for concealed carry as I was originally hoping. My friend got to try it out and loves it, so I was thinking about selling it to him and trying a glock 19 instead. Smaller, but not super small.


(https://gearfireimages.s3.amazonaws.com/imagedb/image447205-9aff57f0e1da0127f50b520717e8e583.jpg)
Well.....  I went thru the Glock 17 or 19 debate.  I ended up getting the 19 because it was smaller, but I thought not too small.  I was wrong.  when at the range I really wish the grip wasn't so short.  If I had it to do over again I would take the 17 over the 19.  I'm a pretty small guy with average sized hands.

The only reason I would recommend the 19 over the 17 would be if this was going to be a primary CCW .
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on October 29, 2018, 05:44:16 PM
Finally got a chance to Zero my new red dot sight on the AR today. It works incredible


(https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.pinterest.com/previews/rAHKWbVR.png)
Title: Re: DTF gun owners.
Post by: Phoenix87x on March 28, 2019, 01:50:06 PM
So I finally got around to getting a Glock 19

(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/6c/07/12/6c0712e5ee21d7bf5d42921b536c6a73.jpg)


I am very impressed with this thing. Put 100 rounds through it right out of the box and it performed flawlessly, in comparison to my Beretta that jammed multiple times the first time I shot it.

I love the Glock's simplicity. The built in trigger safety works fantastically and this is actually small enough where I can concealed carry comfortably, unlike my Beretta where it just wasn't happening.

Overall, I am very happy with it.