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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: KevShmev on July 25, 2015, 11:37:22 AM
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...where would you rank it among the band's best songs?
I already rank Voices top 5, and Erotomania top 10, so if A Mind Beside Itself could be taken as one song, it would probably be top 3 for me, possibly top 2. It's that awesome. :hat
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Not highly in my case, because I almost always skip both Erotomania (especially) and Voices (not as often) to get to The Silent Man. I even prefer the full-band version of The Silent Man on Live Scenes from New York to the studio version or the one with the string quartet on Live from Luna Park.
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All are great songs, but I'm no so sure if they were all on one track that I'd like it any more or any less than separated. I'm tempted to say that it works better as a separate tracks mostly because they sound so different from one another, but that hasn't stopped a few other DT epics from doing the same. :P
If it were one song, I know for sure it'd be a top 15 song for me. Possibly even a top 10.
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I like Erotomania a lot and The Silent Man is pretty good too, but Voices is way above them both.
And as one song, well, the transitions between the three songs aren't really transitions between different parts of one song, so it'd feel a bit incohesive. That's why it's a suite, not a song :lol
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I disagree. The transition from Erotomania to Voices is so smooth, and the acoustic at the end of Voices leading into The Silent Man is just perfect. Contrast those to the jarring transitions in 6DOIT.
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Not too high for me, Voices is probably a top 20 track for me, but The Silent Man is in my bottom 10 and Erotomania is somewhere in the middle.
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Well, The Silent Man is the best part, Voices is pretty great too and Erotomania is meh, but overall I would say Top 30 for me.
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Voices is one of my least favourite DT songs. I just can't get into it. Erotomania is middle of the pack and so is TSM. This suite is the only thing that drags Awake down for me.
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Where all the individual songs are. 45-70 range.
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Only Voices is in my top 20, but I believe the whole AMBI would probably make it around the 10th-15th spot.
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Naaah... to me, these songs never felt like they were intended to be one piece. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there are any musical themes tying the three together. If it were just one song I'd consider it quite an incohesive one.
EDIT: Just remembered the main Erotomania riff plays on the keyboard during the bridge of Voices. That's kinda cool ;D
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Naaah... to me, these songs never felt like they were intended to be one piece. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there are any musical themes tying the three together. If it were just one song I'd consider it quite an incohesive one.
I'm sorry but you are wrong, hear the whole MBI back and you will get it clearly.
Indeed for me it's one piece in 3 parts, and it's definitely in my top 15, maybe even 10...
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Naaah... to me, these songs never felt like they were intended to be one piece. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there are any musical themes tying the three together. If it were just one song I'd consider it quite an incohesive one.
Well, since you asked...;)
You are wrong. Go listen to the guitar solo around the 3:20 or so mark; that is the same melody as The Silent Man's chorus.
Besides, it's a misconception that a long epic has to have musical themes that tie it together. Sometimes it is just a long piece of music with different parts that do not tie together. Take The Gates of Delirium by Yes, for example.
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Well, since you asked...;)
You are wrong. Go listen to the guitar solo around the 3:20 or so mark; that is the same melody as The Silent Man's chorus.
Of course. On reflection, that probably wasn't one of my better posts :blush
Besides, it's a misconception that a long epic has to have musical themes that tie it together. Sometimes it is just a long piece of music with different parts that do not tie together. Take The Gates of Delirium by Yes, for example.
Of course it doesn't have to... there are no rules when it comes to music after all. In my opinion it just makes the flow nicer if there's some kind of underlying musical narrative.
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Wasn't this originally intended as a single piece and was split up to please the record label? I don't think the record label wanted a 20 minute song...which IIRC was a big reason why ACOS didn't get on IAW.
I remember clearly that when we were first hearing the buzz on Awake...MP (or someone) had leaked that there WAS GOING TO BE a 20 minute song on the album. The speculation was that it was going to be ACOS...but that didn't transpire, leading many to believe that AMBI was the "20 minute piece" that they had been talking about. Why it was split up was never made clear (to my memory, at least).
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No way. As I noted in the 9 continuous piece thread, IMO this is just above Illumination Theory. If I didn't identify with the lyrics of Voices- not Schizophrenia, I have a different interpretation- and love them, I would leave this suite by the wayside. SM is good, but not strong enough to save the whole thing. Voices has some awesome parts, but the chorus is too forced and weak melodically for me. I don't like the solo, and Erotomania is probably at the bottom of my DT instrumentals if I don't include SDOIT Overture.
I feel like a bad person for not fully getting it. :-\ ???
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Wasn't this originally intended as a single piece and was split up to please the record label? I don't think the record label wanted a 20 minute song...which IIRC was a big reason why ACOS didn't get on IAW.
I remember clearly that when we were first hearing the buzz on Awake...MP (or someone) had leaked that there WAS GOING TO BE a 20 minute song on the album. The speculation was that it was going to be ACOS...but that didn't transpire, leading many to believe that AMBI was the "20 minute piece" that they had been talking about. Why it was split up was never made clear (to my memory, at least).
Not sure, but everybody I know who loves DT always considered it one song anyway. Our interpretation of the lyrics was slightly different than what the band says it is about, and to us, Voices and The Silent Man were part of the same story. I still think it can be viewed that way, which is the beauty of art; not everyone has to have the same interpretation, even if the creator intended it to be something specific. :hat
When I read on the 'net in the early 00s that it supposedly wasn't one song, I was like, sure, whatever. It's still a single piece of music to me.
Besides, it's a misconception that a long epic has to have musical themes that tie it together. Sometimes it is just a long piece of music with different parts that do not tie together. Take The Gates of Delirium by Yes, for example.
Of course it doesn't have to... there are no rules when it comes to music after all. In my opinion it just makes the flow nicer if there's some kind of underlying musical narrative.
I get that. :coolio
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Assuming you mean how the suite as a whole song (~20 minutes) would compare to the rest of DT's epics
I don't think it would compare very well. It works better as a part of the album, rather than an "Epic" piece. Looking at it in the album, yes all the songs flow perfectly and follow a good musical theme. But looking at it as an "epic," Erotomania is WAY too long as an intro and The Silent Man would be nothing short of a lackluster "finale." The parts are better than the whole.
Simply put; it just isn't meant to be a whole song at all, thus why it is a suite :biggrin:
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Not high at all for me. Probably my least fav part of the whole Awake record.
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I think every part is great individually, although none would quite crack top 20. Together I wouldn't rank it any higher though, as it's not really better than the sum of its individual parts. And to judge it as a song, there's very little continuity from one part to the next, in regards to tonality, rhythm, tempo, or even basic crossfading in the case of Voices > TSM. It just hard cuts off entirely before TSM, which I've always found annoying and badly edited even for a song to song transition.
So to answer the question, I'd probably rank it about the same as I'd rank the best individual part (which would either be Voices or TSM). Somewhere in the 20-30 range, which for DT is still great, but it wouldn't compare to the longer epics that were written to work as songs.
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the transitions between the songs are smooth but they do not sound like three parts to one song, they sound like three songs, is what I'm trying to say :lol
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I'd be pretty confused by it as one piece of music, given the aforementioned length of the "intro" and oddly subdued "ending." It'd play sort of like a wacky alternate TCoT with a longer intro, no ambient section, and a finale that just sits there rather than builds. I am a big fan of Voices and do enjoy the full-band versions of TSM, and Erotomania does get to some cool places, though I find it repetitive and the keyboard tone really grates on me more than the keyboard in any other DT piece. But as a whole piece, I'll pass. Cool that others enjoy it though.
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It would rank very high.
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What does the title A Mind Beside Itself refer to in relation to the individual songs?
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I put Voices just inside my Top 20. If AMBI were considered one song, I don't think it'd move up or down. I love Erotomania and have no feelings one way or the other to TSM.
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What does the title A Mind Beside Itself refer to in relation to the individual songs?
A mind that is contemplating....
The whole song is a contemplation of being raised around all these religious ceremonial things...and yet, not feeling any closer to God. The whole "suite" is about a crisis of faith. The definition of Erotomania is the illusion that you have a personal relationship with someone that it is not possible for you to have a relationship with. It's usually used in the context of stalkers of celebrities who are under the delusion that they have a relationship with these people when they don't. It fits in perfectly with the "crisis of faith" theme, because the person is beginning to feel that religion is just a ceremonial way of making us "feel" like we can be close to God when we never possibly can be.
I disagree with this sentiment, but the message of the piece seemed pretty obvious to me.
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AMBI would be my #2 +20-minute epic (right behind ACOS) if it were one song, although it wouldn't necessarily make my overall top 10 or 20. I enjoy all the three parts and the transitions between them are pretty smooth to my ears.
But looking at it as an "epic," Erotomania is WAY too long as an intro and The Silent Man would be nothing short of a lackluster "finale." The parts are better than the whole.
I disagree - TSM is a great ending, and a nice change of pace from the typical "grand finales" that most DT epics have. Also, Erotomania isn't any longer than the Six Degrees Overture! ;)
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But looking at it as an "epic," Erotomania is WAY too long as an intro and The Silent Man would be nothing short of a lackluster "finale." The parts are better than the whole.
I disagree - TSM is a great ending, and a nice change of pace from the typical "grand finales" that most DT epics have. Also, Erotomania isn't any longer than the Six Degrees Overture! ;)
Except that's a 7 minute intro to a 42 minute piece, not a 7 minute intro to a 20 minute piece. Percentage wise, that's double. And being an overture, it has stronger ties to the whole piece than Erotomania does.
If we compare it to the legitimate 20+ minute epics, their instrumental intros are all in the 4-5:30 minute range.
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GUYS I THINK THAT SYSTEMATIC CHAOS AND BLACK CLOUDS & SILVER LININGS IS ALL ONE ALBUM .
IVE NOT DONE ANY RESEARCH OR ANYTHING BUT ITS TRUE.
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So how high would this SC/BCaSL mashup rank for you?
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Worst album of all time.
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And so my search for SC lovers continues.
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AMBI as one song or not would make no difference to me, but it's just fine the way it is.
So how high would this SC/BCaSL mashup rank for you?
Take out PoW & TBoT and that's a badass collection of DT songs for me. :biggrin:
And so my search for SC lovers continues.
Search no more. Great album. :tup
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What does the title A Mind Beside Itself refer to in relation to the individual songs?
A mind that is contemplating....
The whole song is a contemplation of being raised around all these religious ceremonial things...and yet, not feeling any closer to God. The whole "suite" is about a crisis of faith. The definition of Erotomania is the illusion that you have a personal relationship with someone that it is not possible for you to have a relationship with. It's usually used in the context of stalkers of celebrities who are under the delusion that they have a relationship with these people when they don't. It fits in perfectly with the "crisis of faith" theme, because the person is beginning to feel that religion is just a ceremonial way of making us "feel" like we can be close to God when we never possibly can be.
I disagree with this sentiment, but the message of the piece seemed pretty obvious to me.
I can see the "crisis of faith" angle in The Silent Man and some parts of Voices, but then again, there's this angle of mental disorder in Voices and Erotomania, which is not present in The Silent Man.
So for me, it's like I can tie Erotomania and Voices, for the mental disorder theme, but not The Silent Man. And I can tie The Silent Man and Voices for this "faith" theme, but not Erotomania. Which is why I have a hard time viewing it as a suite.
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So for me, it's like I can tie Erotomania and Voices, for the mental disorder theme, but not The Silent Man. And I can tie The Silent Man and Voices for this "faith" theme, but not Erotomania. Which is why I have a hard time viewing it as a suite.
They're tied together musically. The chorus of the Silent Man is found in Erotomania, and the main chromatic riff in Erotomania is found in Voices (during the "This is not reality" part). But that stuff is found all throughout Awake (the SDV riff in The Mirror, etc...), so really I just think of them as a trilogy, rather than a suite. For me, the album has always been 3 short rockers, trilogy, duo, 3 longer songs.