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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: JediKnight1969 on June 19, 2015, 06:41:37 AM
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I think one of the problems with this record is the order of the songs. I was trying this playlist to get a better progression. I think it works great. Let me share it with you guys:
01 - Trial of tears
02 - Hollow years
03 - You not me
04 - Take away my pain
05 - Just let me breathe
06 - New millennium
07 - Peruvian skies
08 - Burning my soul
09 - Hell's kitchen
10 - Lines in the sand
11 - Anna Lee
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Anna Lee doesn't work as a closer at all.
Also FII is amazing and doesn't really have any problems at all.
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I really like having the "epic" as the album closer, and don't think Anna Lee works well in that spot.
And I think ToT is a bit long for an album opener. Have some foreplay first before the full prog penetration.
I think the running order is perfect as is already, I'd just ditch YNM and call it a day.
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Hum. IDK. FII is the DT album that I like the least. The order of the songs doesn't help that much really.
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Yeah, the problems with the album have nothing to do with the order of the songs.
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Geez Blob - "full prog penetration" ...........
*anything to stop the thought process*
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Geez Blob - "full prog penetration" ...........
*anything to stop the thought process*
:lol Shouldn't be too hard to do, as it's basically an oxymoron, isn't it? Prog. Penetration. Canceling forces.
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Anna Lee doesn't work as a closer at all.
This
Also FII is amazing and doesn't really have any problems at all.
And this.
I think the running order is perfect as is already, I'd just ditch YNM and call it a day.
And this.
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Maybe I forgot to say that I love FII. It was just a different way to appreciate it.
Whatever. Sorry for the inconveniences.
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No worries Jedi. If that's how you like listening to it, that's great. It's amazing what you can do with playlists these days. Very convenient.
Personally, I wish they would've included Raise the Knife and cut out a couple of the other much less stellar songs on the album.
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The only album I have reordered (and deleted tracks from) is Systematic Chaos, where my play list is:
ITPOE 1 & 2
Forsaken
Constant Motion
TDEN
Repentence (sometimes)
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No worries Jedi. If that's how you like listening to it, that's great. It's amazing what you can do with playlists these days. Very convenient.
Personally, I wish they would've included Raise the Knife and cut out a couple of the other much less stellar songs on the album.
Thanks pal. Actually, I've been listening to this record for 18 years. Like I said: I love it. And all over these years, I've heard so many bad comments about it, I thought with a different order it would be more appreciated. Because after a dark, heavy record like Awake, and a complex, progressive opening track like NM, people may have expected something different. And there's the massive disappointment. FII has many "slow" moments like HY, HK, TAMP, AL and half of UPS. So, if you start the record with a slow, delicate intro like ToT, you will know, this is not a heavy metal album, but something to be appreciated in a quiet atmosphere. Of course it has metal on it, but the sophistication prevails all over it.
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The only album I have reordered (and deleted tracks from) is Systematic Chaos, where my play list is:
ITPOE 1 & 2
Forsaken
Constant Motion
TDEN
Repentence (sometimes)
SC is the only one I've re-ordered, but only to put ITPOE as one song at the end of the album. Deleting tracks is heresy.
Normally I wouldn't even think of re-ordering an album though. It is what it is.
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the sophistication prevails all over it.
So I hurt your feelings
Well I'm really sorry
But I don't give a shit
Noooooooooooooooooo
I'm just teasing, but sophistication is not the word I'd go for with regard to parts of FII.
On topic, I understand the impulse to rearrange track orders, but on FII, there's nothing I'd want to change. The track listing is great as is. Including You Not Me. Would've loved for them to have gotten Raise the Knife in there somewhere, but I'm also fine with that existing as its own separate non-album track.
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Also FII is amazing and doesn't really have any problems at all.
It's a great album, no problems there.
I get what you're proposing here but there's a lot of hate for this album that doesn't deserve at all.
Also... I once was trying to backup my theory that FII and ToT were a kind of dicotomic-related albums. Just for things like "Burning My SOUL - This Dying SOUL" That part that says "In the STREAM OF CONSCIOUSNESS" and some other things I don't remember at the moment.
Highschool... too much free time.
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I like New Millennium, but I've always found it a rather underwhelming opener. It's too bad Burning My Soul isn't a better song, because the intro is nails and would have been a cool opener had the rest of the song been better. This album really doesn't have a song that would have been a great opener, from a quality and opening-vibe standpoint, IMO.
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The only album I have reordered (and deleted tracks from) is Systematic Chaos, where my play list is:
ITPOE 1 & 2
Forsaken
Constant Motion
TDEN
Repentence (sometimes)
Deleting tracks is heresy.
Sort of this. I've been known to skip tracks and that's sort of the same thing. As far as re-ordering albums, I usually just put it on shuffle and see what happens. Surprisingly, some songs blend together well. Better than the original order. Good info for future playlists. :biggrin:
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The only album I have ever reordered and deleted songs from is ADToE to make it flow like IaW. But if I'm actually listening to an album, I always take it as it is.
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Jumping on the re-order train for SC only. I actually combined Pt 1 and 2 of ITPOE into one track, snipping some of the wind sound.
I prefer it at the first position. I never agreed with MP about not using it to open an album due to length. Although longer than both, Close to the Edge and 2112 opened their respective albums.
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I don't reorder FII per se, but for me, the Ytsejam Version is definitive. I'm a melody guy, and while I like heavy as well, it always has to have something hummable, and this album has that in spades. The only thing that bugs me about the album is the cheesy over-enunciation of the "It's all about YEWWWWW, not MAAAAAAYYYYYYY" part, and I think the Doug Pinnick vocals on "Lines in the Sand" are the single worst musical moment in DT history.
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sweet gonna try this tonight:)
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Since FII was originally supposed to be a double-album, I've always envisioned it would've flowed something like this had the band gotten their way and used all their material:
DISC 1:
1) New Millennium
2) Cover My Eyes
3) You Or Me (original cut)
4) Peruvian Skies
5) Hollow Years
6) Burning My Soul (original cut f/ most of what became Hell's Kitchen)
7) Raise The Knife
8) Lines In The Sand
DISC 2:
1) Metropolis Pt. 2 (original cut - although I'm glad this never happened and we got Scenes From a Memory instead)
2) Where Are You Now
3) The Way It Used To Be
4) Take Away My Pain (original cut)
5) Just Let Me Breathe
6) Anna Lee
7) Trial of Tears
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I was under the impression the intended double album would be arranged the way MP did on the FII Demos Ytse Jam release.
Anyway, I really dig the idea of opening with TOT. Yes, it's got the slow intro, but once it takes off, the energy just skyrockets, and I find the whole thing incredibly compelling. Following with the ballad single is interesting, as is ending with Hk/LITS – I'm sorta ignoring AL as I agree with several other posters that it doesn't work (on the album, at all).
This is the one I put together, with a way different approach that will likely be disliked equally:
Burning My Soul
Just Let Me Breathe (great transition from BMS, though, with some crossfading)
You Not Me (w/extended opening and ending from demo)
Peruvian Skies
Hollow Years
Lines in the Sand
The Way It Used to Be
Take Away My Pain
New Millennium
Hell's Kitchen
Trial of Tears
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I will disgust some people here.
I never liked A Change of Seasons being stuck on the EP. And I didn't like parts of FII.
So . . . my FII is :
A Change of Seasons
Peruvian Skies
Hollow Years
Hell's Kitchen
Lines in the Sand
Take Away My Pain
Anna Lee
Trial of Tears
Comes in at around 71 minutes.
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This is the one I put together, with a way different approach that will likely be disliked equally:
Burning My Soul
Just Let Me Breathe (great transition from BMS, though, with some crossfading)
You Not Me (w/extended opening and ending from demo)
Peruvian Skies
Hollow Years
Lines in the Sand
The Way It Used to Be
Take Away My Pain
New Millennium
Hell's Kitchen
Trial of Tears
My favorite one so far, if it had been organized in another order.
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I like ACOS being in an EP on its own. It is far better than everything on FII.
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I like ACOS being in an EP on its own. It is far better than everything on FII.
And I feel ACOS is as justified being on I&W as it is FII. I too am happy where it is, and I prefer the EP version over the potential I&W version on that note (see New York 93 official bootleg).
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I think the running order is perfect as is already, I'd just ditch YNM and call it a day.
:iagree:
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I don't understand why most people can's see Anna Lee as a closer. Follows the old school, like Space-Dye vest and Beneath the surface. It feels perfect for me. Anyway, agree to disagree.
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I don't understand why most people can's see Anna Lee as a closer. Follows the old school, like Space-Dye vest and Beneath the surface. It feels perfect for me. Anyway, agree to disagree.
Structurally, Anna Lee just doesn't work as an album closer in the same way as Space-Dye Vest or Beneath The Surface. Both of those tracks have a pretty gradual build up to a fairly dramatic climax. Anna Lee doesn't have that. It's climax is too weak for an album closer. And the last track on the album needs to have a killer climax. That's why Trial of Tears works so well as an album closer; it has the album's best literal high point at it's climax.
Speaking of which, Trial of Tears is much, much too slow in it's build up to work as the first track on an album, and the song as a whole is not energetic enough to lead off a record. While a gradual increase in intensity can be good for an opening song, it has to lead into a pretty balls out track to work (like Pull Me Under or The Glass Prison). Trial of Tears is far too laid back for an album opener. If you wanted a big song at the beginning of the album, Lines In the Sand would work much better.
Honestly, considering all the tracks that were lost and rearranged between the demos and the final product, I think the tracklist for FII is about as good as it could have been. I still think the demos would have made a much better album then what we got (although I would swap out the incomplete Metropolis 2 for A Change Of Seasons), but taken as it is, FII is still a fairly solid record. A reshuffling of the tracks really would not have done it any favours.
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I like ACOS being in an EP on its own. It is far better than everything on FII.
I like ACOS being on its own so it doesn't ruin IaW or FII and I don't have to listen to it.
And imo having FII as a double album would have turned it into somewhat of a Load/Reload situation, with a bunch of really good songs diluted by throwaway filler tracks into two weak discs. This is a case of less is more.
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I like ACOS being in an EP on its own. It is far better than everything on FII.
I like ACOS being on its own so it doesn't ruin IaW or FII and I don't have to listen to it.
And imo having FII as a double album would have turned it into somewhat of a Load/Reload situation, with a bunch of really good songs diluted by throwaway filler tracks into two weak discs. This is a case of less is more.
I disagree about FII, since I like all the songs that were cut from the demos. Plus with the possible exception of Burning My Soul/Hell's Kitchen, all the demo arrangements are just as good as, and in many cases, better, then what ended up on the finished product. Dream Theater's discography, as a whole, is "all killer, no filler" for me, so having a 2+ hour FII double album would have suited me just fine. And even the weakest songs from the FII demos are as good, if not stronger, then the best stuff on Re/Load (not that that is saying much.)
As for ACOS, that is a top 4 DT song for me, so obviously I don't think it would ruin any album it is placed on. I only mentioned putting it on the FII demos because it's an easy replacement for the incomplete Metropolis 2, plus it was the only other thing they did in the studio with Derek, so it is a natural fit to fill that gap. I don't really consider it necessary to place with the FII demos, but it is an easy fit for an otherwise album-less song.
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Imo every single change on FII was for the better, including the songs that were chosen to cut. At best the cut songs are ok, and at worst bad filler, but in every case they're redundant.
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Well, we will just have to agree to disagree on that, I suppose.
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Unless either of us is up for a cage match to the death (which I'm not because of my weak limbs and desire to remain alive), then we shall agree to disagree.
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I was under the impression the intended double album would be arranged the way MP did on the FII Demos Ytse Jam release.
This. I don't know why there is speculation, since we already know what that would look like.
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I was under the impression the intended double album would be arranged the way MP did on the FII Demos Ytse Jam release.
This. I don't know why there is speculation, since we already know what that would look like.
I disagree. The Demos are in order of when they were written and recorded (like all the other Demo discs). The only exception is Metropolis 2, which was placed at the end as a bonus track. I don't think there's any question that if they released a double-disc, they would have switched up the order.
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I was under the impression the intended double album would be arranged the way MP did on the FII Demos Ytse Jam release.
This. I don't know why there is speculation, since we already know what that would look like.
The tracks on FII Demos are in the order they were written in, not the order MP wanted them to be on the final album. (E: Myung'd by OpenYourEyes)
My personal tracklist for FII would be a tighter and more compact version with only 8 songs, just like the first two albums:
1. The Way It Used to Be
2. Burning My Soul
3. Hell's Kitchen
4. Lines in the Sand
5. Speak to Me
6. Peruvian Skies
7. Hollow Years
8. Trial of Tears
You could also throw in the demo version of Take Away My Pain and the album would be as long as TOT and DT12.
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I have an playlist of FII material. Since creating it, this is the album to me, for all intents and purposes.
Goes like this:
1 New Millennium
2 Peruvian Skies
3 You or Me (from Demos)
4 Hollow Years (Live at Budokan)
5 Hell's Kitchen
6 Lines in the Sand
7 Cover My Eyes (Demos)
8 Raise the Knife (Score)
9 Speak to Me (Demos)
10 Trial of Tears
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I don't understand why most people can's see Anna Lee as a closer. Follows the old school, like Space-Dye vest and Beneath the surface. It feels perfect for me. Anyway, agree to disagree.
Structurally, Anna Lee just doesn't work as an album closer in the same way as Space-Dye Vest or Beneath The Surface. Both of those tracks have a pretty gradual build up to a fairly dramatic climax. Anna Lee doesn't have that. It's climax is too weak for an album closer. And the last track on the album needs to have a killer climax.
Fixed:
01 - Trial of tears (13:06)
02 - Hollow years (5:53)
03 - You not me (4:58)
04 - Take away my pain (6:03)
05 - Just let me breathe (5:28)
06 - New millennium (8:20)
07 - Peruvian skies (6:43)
08 - Burning my soul (5:29)
09 - Hell's kitchen (4:16)
10 - Lines in the sand (20:00) - including "hidden track"
;)
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What?! The order is perfect! I mean this order (https://dreamtheater.wikia.com/wiki/Falling_Into_Infinity_Demos), of course, because anything else is NON FREAKIN CANON
(Joking, of course, but I really think the demo of FII is the best FII, in every regard including song order).
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I was under the impression the intended double album would be arranged the way MP did on the FII Demos Ytse Jam release.
This. I don't know why there is speculation, since we already know what that would look like.
I disagree. The Demos are in order of when they were written and recorded (like all the other Demo discs). The only exception is Metropolis 2, which was placed at the end as a bonus track. I don't think there's any question that if they released a double-disc, they would have switched up the order.
This is my understanding as well. I think it's pretty obvious that MP put them in chronological order of when they came about...which is not the way the final product would have turned out.
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I was under the impression the intended double album would be arranged the way MP did on the FII Demos Ytse Jam release.
This. I don't know why there is speculation, since we already know what that would look like.
I disagree. The Demos are in order of when they were written and recorded (like all the other Demo discs). The only exception is Metropolis 2, which was placed at the end as a bonus track. I don't think there's any question that if they released a double-disc, they would have switched up the order.
This is my understanding as well. I think it's pretty obvious that MP put them in chronological order of when they came about...which is not the way the final product would have turned out.
Yes and no. On the one hand, I know the track order on the demos (excluding Metropolis 2) is the order in which the songs were written. On the other hand, though, the demos do have a very nice flow to them, far too nice to just be a coincidence. It possible that as they wrote the songs, they just kind of came out in an order that felt like a real album because they thought after writing a track, "Okay, what kind of song should follow that?" I don't have any proof to back up that theory, but given how well the track order on the YtseJam demos fits together, it would make sense.
Personally, my preferred FII looks like this:
CD 1
Raise The Knife (demo)
Where Are You Now? (demo)
Take Away My Pain (demo)
You Or Me (demo)
Anna Lee (demo)
Burning My Soul (album version)
Hell's Kitchen (album version)
Lines In The Sand (demo)
CD 2
Just Let Me Breathe (demo)
Peruvian Skies (demo)
The Way It Used To Be (demo)
Cover My Eyes (demo)
Hollow Years (demo)
New Millennium (demo)
Speak To Me (demo)
Trial Of Tears (demo)
Moving TWIUTB to the second disc and and having the album versions of BMS & HK maintains the symmetry of the demos, plus you also get that excellent flow of BMS/HK/LitS from the final album, creating a perfect climax for the end of the first disc. And while I know I mentioned earlier that you could place ACoS at the end of a FII double album, there is just something about ToT that makes it a flawless closer for the entire record.