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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: darkshade on June 13, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
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The album.
I have been a DT fan since the Train of Thought era. I have enjoyed every album up til that point thoroughly, and every new album was a delight, and some of my favorites. However, I have not gotten into the self titled album, AT ALL.
I like WDADU and FII, though I admit they're not great, just good.
It came out during a time when I was not feeling DT, prog, etc... but I wasn't feeling prog rock much when Systematic Chaos came out, but I overplayed that one for a week when it came out, and enjoy still to this day, so that can't be the reason.
I loved BC&SL and ADTOE when they came out and listened to them for a long time. I was on board with Mangini for a while. When The Enemy Inside was released, I listened to it a lot, anticipating the new album release. By then time DT12 came out, my head space was that of despair, so the album did not mesh well with how I was feeling a the time. I've re-listened several times over the last year or so, and though I'm in a better head space, the album still doesn't do much for me.
I've also come to realize I miss Mike Portnoy's (drum and arrangement) contributions to the music, and the fact that Mangini's drums have sounded bad to my ears on the last 2 albums doesn't help. But I also didn't care for the 4th Transatlantic album either (not sure if it's MP's fault or not) so it might not be the lack of Portnoy.
With EVERY DT album, I would always listen to specific tracks when in the mood, EXCEPT for DT12, not even IT. All the songs are just kind of there, they blend together, and nothing sticks out to my mind, and while nothing is BAD on DT12, nothing is anything special either.
I love Octvarium, ACOS, ITPOE, TCOT, SDOIT, and many other prog epics from other bands, but I don't like IT (I admit, the spacey section and the orchestral section are beautiful).
Could it be I just don't think the album is good? Have I finally become a jaded Dream Theater vet?
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As I have already said on another topic, I do not like early DT material, but I like almost everything since SFAM. When SC, BCSL and ADTOE were released, I liked them almost immediately. DT12 took a while to grow on me. But now I like it almost as much as those other ones....
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I think you mostly answered your own question. And additionally, there isn't always specific identifyable reasons for liking or disliking things, sometimes it's just not your thing.
But I agree with your opinion. I could go on at length about why I don't like the album, since I think it's the worst they've put out in almost 30 years.
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It's far above SC and BC&SL for me, but the problem I have with it is its non-replay value. TBH, write shorter,catchier songs is OK but there are practically no surprises there. In short, it's too direct for my tastes.
B.Lee
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Dunno. Maybe you've simply moved on. Everyone's different, and that's totally cool. All I know is that I've been the opposite about it. I've been a fan for 21 years, and DT is the first album in awhile to get added to my Pantheon (IAW, Awake, SFAM, SDOIT, DT) since SDOIT. It's the album I had been waiting for them to make since Awake. It's less fruity-tooty than most albums, it's highs are very high (though perhaps not as transcendently high as others) with almost NO lows ( for me, and most DT albums have many eye-rolling lows -- this coming from a superfan ), it has my favorite mix of James skills (no diction-less high wailing, and no breath-y tender singing that sounds like the microphone is literally touching his nose or worse), and it has just the right balance of balance of catchiness, songwriting and virtousity. So I love it. It's like they eliminated all of their mistakes, but it is perhaps not as ravishly transcendent since they've already put out 20 years of ideas and it's not born of fresher inspiration.
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It's far above SC and BC&SL for me, but the problem I have with it is its non-replay value.
That's it for me in a nutshell. It held my attention only of a very short amount of time.
I think the shorter, more-concise thing isn't DT's forte, at least not there way they write. The shorter the song, the more meticulously you need to craft it.
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It's far above SC and BC&SL for me, but the problem I have with it is its non-replay value.
That's it for me in a nutshell. It held my attention only of a very short amount of time.
I think the shorter, more-concise thing isn't DT's forte, at least not there way they write. The shorter the song, the more meticulously you need to craft it.
Yep, Rumby. I don't know if you'll agree, but for me, one example of a well-crafted song is Alone from JLB's EoP. Catchy, heavy, concise, an awesome solo and some electronics in good measure.
B.Lee
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The answer is simple for me. The album just isn't that good. If WDADU had better production, I would've ranked DT12 dead last. There is nothing new or creative on this album. Just a bunch of recycled material thrown into a blender and then rearranged to resemble something new. Huge disappointment.
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The RoadRunner Albums :
A Dramatic Turn Of Events > Systematic Chaos > Black Clouds & Silver Linings > DT12
For me :)
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I loved the album when I first heard it, but it's my least favorite now. I think part of that is due to my high level of anticipation got its release. I guess subconsciously I really wanted to like the album, so I did.....for a while. Now though, it just feels very uninspired. It's as if they wrote the album following a template, "Ok guitar solo here, a keyboard solo next, and then a unison". Like they had some prog quota to fill to please the fans or something. That's how it felt to me to at least. John Petrucci once said that the band used to debate a chord change for hours when writing in the early stages of their career and that they don't really do that anymore. Personally, I wish they would go back to agonizing over their music.
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The deafening silence regarding the recording of the new album is creating an expectation from me that they will be raising their game to the next level. DT12 did not do that.
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I certainly would like that to be true. Thing is, that's the expectation I had for DT12 ("we established we can go on without MP on ADTOE; now let's establish ourselves a new identity "), but it never happened. Except a few moments it was very business as usual. Like Deep Sox said, at this point you can count down the seconds to the keyboard solo once the guitar solo is done.
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I certainly would like that to be true. Thing is, that's the expectation I had for DT12 ("we established we can go on without MP on ADTOE; now let's establish ourselves a new identity "), but it never happened. Except a few moments it was very business as usual.
It's weird. I found ADTOE so refreshing. And the DT12 was almost a step backwards.
It would've made more sense to me if DT12 was released first, and then usd as a building block to ADTOE.
I've always felt this way about the two Mangini albums. I feel like they were released in reversed order.
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I think each of those two albums had some things better than the other. But under the perspective of the compositions, I think ADTOE is better. But still like DT12.
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I certainly would like that to be true. Thing is, that's the expectation I had for DT12 ("we established we can go on without MP on ADTOE; now let's establish ourselves a new identity "), but it never happened. Except a few moments it was very business as usual.
It's weird. I found ADTOE so refreshing. And the DT12 was almost a step backwards.
It would've made more sense to me if DT12 was released first, and then usd as a building block to ADTOE.
I've always felt this way about the two Mangini albums. I feel like they were released in reversed order.
Well, my theory has always been that DT are at their best when they have something to prove. That was true for the early albums where each of them could easily have been their last, but I think after SDOIT they got the sense that they "made it", and the pressure to innovate wasn't there anymore.
With ADTOE that pressure was back again, but DT12 had them fall back into "yup, we're good" mode.
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Yeah, I can agree with that.
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For me DT is a straight forward listen with good solid songs. I like it, but I am used to the time changes, build up in the songs and general progressive sound. I would like this in the next cd, but we may get another straight forward album.
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I think it's an OK but generic album as far as Dream Theater is concerned. Petrucci and Rudess have gotten locked into "signature" tones. We have the token Rush homages, The Looking Glass and Surrender To Reason. The token Metallica-esque song The Enemy Inside (with another ragtime interlude no less). I'd like to see a more experimental album next, but I doubt it will happen because DT has settled into a formula which works and which appeases most of their fanbase.
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The answer is simple for me. The album just isn't that good. If WDADU had better production, I would've ranked DT12 dead last. There is nothing new or creative on this album. Just a bunch of recycled material thrown into a blender and then rearranged to resemble something new. Huge disappointment.
DT12 doesn't have the best production either
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The answer is simple for me. The album just isn't that good. If WDADU had better production, I would've ranked DT12 dead last. There is nothing new or creative on this album. Just a bunch of recycled material thrown into a blender and then rearranged to resemble something new. Huge disappointment.
DT12 doesn't have the best production either
Agree.
And agree again.
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The RoadRunner Albums :
A Dramatic Turn Of Events > Systematic Chaos > Black Clouds & Silver Linings > DT12
For me :)
Without a shadow of doubt.
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While I agree there's not really anything new, the majority of the songs have in fact grown on me pretty quickly, but I think their ability to write good ballads has decreased, still, Illumination Theory, The Enemy Inside and Enigma Machine are all easily top 50 material for me, with Behind the Veil and False Awakening Suite following up pretty close.
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The RoadRunner Albums :
A Dramatic Turn Of Events > Systematic Chaos > Black Clouds & Silver Linings > DT12
For me :)
Switch Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds & Silver Linings and that's mine
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I think it's an OK but generic album as far as Dream Theater is concerned. Petrucci and Rudess have gotten locked into "signature" tones. We have the token Rush homages, The Looking Glass and Surrender To Reason. The token Metallica-esque song The Enemy Inside (with another ragtime interlude no less). I'd like to see a more experimental album next, but I doubt it will happen because DT has settled into a formula which works and which appeases most of their fanbase.
Let me buy you a beer, man. That remark about Rush and Metallica Tributes have been in my mind since the first single came out, at first I thought "Man, I'm gonna really get into this album" (it was just the rush of new music speacking) Now I just don't seem to find the charm in it. Let's see what they do next.
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The RoadRunner Albums :
A Dramatic Turn Of Events > Systematic Chaos > Black Clouds & Silver Linings > DT12
For me :)
Without a shadow of doubt.
Yeah, that's exactly how my rankings for those albums are ordered.
7. ADTOE
9. SC
10. BC&SL
11. DT12
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I think it's an OK but generic album as far as Dream Theater is concerned. Petrucci and Rudess have gotten locked into "signature" tones. We have the token Rush homages, The Looking Glass and Surrender To Reason.
In an album that lacked creativity, I thought Surrender To Reason stood out from the rest, in a good way.
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It's weird for me, actually. I like Dramatic Turn of Events a lot more than DT12, but I listen to DT12 songs more often (Along for the Ride, Illumination Theory, TBP, The Enemy Inside).
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The Enemy Inside and Enigma Machine are all easily top 50 material for me
Top 50?
I have no idea about the total number of DT songs, but the above means barely more than "around average", right? (as "in the top 50" usually is a euphemism for place 41-50)
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True, but I suspect many DT fans do not think of average DT songs as being average songs in general. Big difference, even by fanboy standards. ;) :lol
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True, but I suspect many DT fans do not think of average DT songs as being average songs in general. Big difference, even by fanboy standards. ;) :lol
I do.
For me, songs are enjoyable not because of any technical standards; I don't need time signature changes in my music to enjoy it, and often don't employ them in my own music unless I feel it makes it better in some way. I like music where all aspects are intentionally there to make the music sound better in some form or another, not just to impress people. For me, most of the things Dream Theater does to their music to make it cooler or "better" really don't give it anything that's ridiculously more enjoyable than say, a catchy tune, or a great beat.
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The Enemy Inside and Enigma Machine are all easily top 50 material for me
Top 50?
I have no idea about the total number of DT songs, but the above means barely more than "around average", right? (as "in the top 50" usually is a euphemism for place 41-50)
Between just the official studio releases there are around 120 tracks (not all of which are "songs", but many judge it that way, so close enough), so it's almost half.
I usually don't mention a song as being top 50 as a positive quality for that reason, but I will mention when a song doesn't make my top 50 when I don't consider it that great. DT has a very strong discography, so even being middle of the pack isn't bad, but if there are 40-50 DT songs better than the best song on an album, I wouldn't consider it a good thing.
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The Enemy Inside and Enigma Machine are all easily top 50 material for me
Top 50?
I have no idea about the total number of DT songs, but the above means barely more than "around average", right? (as "in the top 50" usually is a euphemism for place 41-50)
There's about 105 studio tracks, thus not counting tracks like Eve, Raw Dog etc. I know I might've used the wrong words, what I meant was they are all between place 1-50, and yea, something like Enigma Machine I would rather consider an "average" DT track than above average, but the others I named are what turned this record from a good one to a great one.