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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Darkstarshades on February 24, 2015, 05:42:11 PM
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Personally, it's Images & Words
Cool, agree, but not THAT good.
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Train of Thought
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Train of Thought
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There aren't any.
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Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. It's not bad, but it's pretty easily my least favorite Dream Theater album.
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DT12
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Awake, followed by ADTOE and SDOIT.
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There aren't any.
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There aren't any.
Ding ding ding.
I'd argue that every critically-acclaimed DT album deserves its praise.
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There are things that I love about ALL of their albums, in fact I love MOST of their songs.
But I think that a lot of people have elevated the status of Awake somewhat higher than what it deserves.
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Awake. It's a great album, but not on the same level as IaW and SFaM like most people on here say it is.
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This is really tough. The albums that are rated the best are rated that way because they are amazing. So Images and Words, Awake, Metropolis 2, Six Degrees, are well deserving of their praise. I'd actually say that Six Degrees deserves more praise than it gets. If I were to pick one that I think some people can be overly zealous about it might be Octavarium. Never Enough and Panic Attack are two of my least favorite DT songs. The Answer Lies Within, while sweet and inspiring, doesn't always give me the goosebumps a ballad should. The first half of Sacrificed Sons needs to be over quicker. It's a great song after that.
Don't get me wrong. It's still a great CD. The title track is a DT masterpiece. Overall though, I'd probably rather listen to Train of Thought on some days.
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See, I always thought that ToT was generally held in higher esteem here than 8VM. I think one aspect of that is that most people here put ToT somewhere in the middle of the road while rankings of 8VM vary wildly, but I got the sense that if we did a poll between the two of them ToT would win pretty handily.
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A Dramatic Turn of Events
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At least on this forum, ADTOE. I thought it was a decent album and a nice reassurance from the band that they were still the DT we know and love. That's all well and good, but now that we're well past that period the album is sorta useless. It just sounds like DT going through the motions.
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See, I think ADTOE is just excellent compositionally. It doesn't really do anything new stylistically, which can be seen as a mark against it (and I certainly wouldn't want them bringing the same mindset to future albums), but to me it compensates for that by having a bunch of really well-written songs.
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Well that's the thing for me, I don't think the songs are very well written. Some of the material (TITL and BMUBMD) is some of their worst as far as I'm concerned. The whole thing is just really bland.
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Well that's the thing for me, I don't think the songs are very well written. Some of the material (TITL and BMUBMD) is some of their worst as far as I'm concerned. The whole thing is just really bland.
Breaking All Illusions says hi.
Also, BMUBMD has no place being mentioned on the same level of quality as TITL.
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Train of Thought
It was either this or Octavarium.
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I'm with Six Degrees. The Glass Prison and the title track are on par with the most amazing things they've ever written...the rest is good...even very good. But if I had to pick an album that people tend to really slobber all over, and I'm not sure that (as a whole) it really deserves it, it would be SDOIT.
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For me, it was a tough call between Awake and ADTOE. I went with the latter, because it just doesn't do anything for me as an album. It's hardly the return to form that some people would make it out to be.
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SDOIT. The first CD is good to very good, but SDOIT - the song - is IMHO highly overrated.
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SCEEEEEENES
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AWAKE
I think the last two albums are also a bit overrated here.
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Either Octavarium or DT12...
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There aren't any.
Listen to bosk1 in all things.
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DT12
There aren't any.
Listen to bosk1 in all things.
I trust in Bosk1's sig. :lol
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I'd definitely say their most recent release, the self-titled Dream Theater album. I like it well enough, but I honestly don't understand the praise it has received, and I certainly don't feel it is an album worthy of being self-titled, like it's the best thing they've ever done. I feel there is a sameness found in this album that doesn't have anything that truly differentiates it from other well-defined albums, and I hope the band doesn't remain on this path (I feel their next release will really show where the band is headed). The album has grown on me over time, but overall I can't get into it like I can past releases. I am very much a Portnoy fan, though, and I miss his creative input. I'm not knocking Mangini at all; I think he's fantastic, but I feel I will always be a "classic" DT fan (if classic for DT can be defined as the era of DT that consisted of all 3 original members) over their newer material.
Having said that, I've seen DT live six times, and the last show I saw of theirs, in support of the DT self-titled album, surprised me as the best show I've seen from them.
Lastly, I'm also not very into Train of Thought.
Edit: Looks like people refer to it as DT12. I had no idea.
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I think the last two albums are also a bit overrated here.
Agreed.
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At least on this forum, ADTOE. I thought it was a decent album and a nice reassurance from the band that they were still the DT we know and love. That's all well and good, but now that we're well past that period the album is sorta useless. It just sounds like DT going through the motions.
I picked ADTOE as well for similar reasons. Kind of a been there, done that album. If it was the first DT album I had ever heard, then I'd probably love it. But being a long time fan, it did just seem like a bunch of DT'isms strung together. I really think it was a test album for Petrucci to revisit the past so he could study an album where all four instrumentalists were working together and bringing out the best in each other and trying to really recapture it all in himself knowing he was about to have even more of the songwriting burden put upon his shoulders.
If there was an inspiration corner during ADTOE, it was a bunch of DT albums.
And there is no way Awake can be overrated :metal
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The only correct answer is I&W. :P Because while it's still pretty amazing, I don't view it as the pinnacle of DTs output.
SFAM almost seems overrated but if anything it deserves the praise a bit more.
But really, most of the albums tend to get rated pretty fairly. And personally, I'm not generally a fan of the term because it has too many implications that are up to interpretation so I try and avoid the term unless it feels accurate or appropriate. And even then it's probably still just my opinion. ::)
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I'm surprised to see Octavarium getting so many votes. Mostly because I thought it was universally panned. Sure it's my #1, but I honestly thought I was the only one.
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There aren't any.
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Given that every DT album is revered by at least some section of the fanbase (I'm not aware of any one album which is roundly disliked by most fans, unlike with many other groups), this question to me can be rephrased as simply the album you least enjoy. And as such, Octavarium gets my vote. Aside from The Answer Lies Within, there's pretty much nothing I enjoy on this one, and yet I know many love it and praise it (Jammindude above for example). Their best cover art, though.
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Images And Words...
I just don't get why people love it so much, even more than Scenes From A Memory and Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence. I mean, it's a nice album, but it just doesn't appeal to me as much as their other work.
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Well that's the thing for me, I don't think the songs are very well written. Some of the material (TITL and BMUBMD) is some of their worst as far as I'm concerned. The whole thing is just really bland.
Breaking All Illusions says hi.
BAI might be the worst offender. It's like a DT epic by the numbers. It's a nice little tune but the whole thing just seems forced. Like the FFH reprise at the end.
Great solo from JP though.
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It's honestly the most natural sounding song on the album. That's part of what makes it so great. I don't get how it feels "forced" at all.
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It's one of the most natural sounding songs in the discography. My personal favorite DT song.
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It's honestly the most natural sounding song on the album. That's part of what makes it so great. I don't get how it feels "forced" at all.
It just seemed like they were trying to recycle a bunch of ideas from older epics to stay safe. Stuff like the Heart of the Sunrise esque bass solo at the beginning, the Far From Heaven reprise at the end. They aren't really saying anything new with that song.
I'm not even saying it's a bad song, I don't really go out of my way to listen to it but I still enjoy it whenever it comes on. But it does represent the major issue I have with that album.
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I agree that there's nothing outside the box about BAI, but to me it's the perfection of an idea. It's a compositional feat that was 19 years in the making and it was certainly worth the time it took for them to be ready to write it. Their magnum opus to date.
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I'd say that BAI is more of a "re-visioning" of DT's sound. I can see why some would say that ADTOE as a whole is them going through the motions, but I feel particular songs on it, BAI namely, are a modern take of what they've established over the course of their career. It's not a song that I can picture being on any prior DT album before it. It's not treading any new ground, but it doesn't need to. Its stellar composition speaks for itself. The song as a whole just flows well and it's chocked full of riveting instrumentation, on multiple grounds.
When I listen to BAI, I just don't hear a song where the guys sat down and said "alright guys, we gotta deliver and chug out an epic-esque tune for the fans". It sounds like they had a jam going and just ran with it, and out came gold. I'm sure the song-writing process was a lot more complex than that, but I honestly feel like it's just straight stream of consciousness from them (and yeah, I went there).
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Definitely I&W.
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I agree that there's nothing outside the box about BAI, but to me it's the perfection of an idea. It's a compositional feat that was 19 years in the making and it was certainly worth the time it took for them to be ready to write it. Their magnum opus to date.
This is how I feel exactly for BAI. It's the perfection of an idea, of what DT is about. Which is why it is my favorite DT song.
I also feel that way for IT, particularly because I could clearly see a narrative structure in that epic, and how all the elements contribute to a narrative. Genius from a composition perspective.
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DT12
It was a solid album, but I found it nowhere as awesome as so many other fans.
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Definitely I&W.
*backhands*
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Well that's the thing for me, I don't think the songs are very well written. Some of the material (TITL and BMUBMD) is some of their worst as far as I'm concerned. The whole thing is just really bland.
TITL is my favorite song of the "Mangini ara", and the only song from the "Mangini era" to make my all-time top ten favorite DT songs list (though The Looking Glass is always knocking at the door).
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DT12
It was a solid album, but I found it nowhere as awesome as so many other fans.
This.
I like The Enemy Inside, Looking Glass and Surrender To Reason. But, i rarely listen to this album.
Also, Octavarium is nothing special.
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I can see why some would say that ADTOE as a whole is them going through the motions...
Honestly, I can't. The album is such a strong return to form, IMO. I have been a fan since 1992, and I strongly enjoy all of their albums. But I can honestly say that this was the first DT album where there isn't a single song on the album that I don't care for. This and DT12 are easily their most consistently strong albums from start to finish. More of that, please!
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Totally agree, bosk! I'm a big supporter of the past two albums. Can't wait to see what DT does next, because I couldn't have been happier with the past two releases.
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I would much rather they use themselves as inspiration corner (as with ADToE) I just want it to sound better. The songs themselves
are very good IMO. I much prefer the songs on ADToE over DT12.
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I'd say that BAI is more of a "re-visioning" of DT's sound. I can see why some would say that ADTOE as a whole is them going through the motions, but I feel particular songs on it, BAI namely, are a modern take of what they've established over the course of their career. It's not a song that I can picture being on any prior DT album before it. It's not treading any new ground, but it doesn't need to. Its stellar composition speaks for itself. The song as a whole just flows well and it's chocked full of riveting instrumentation, on multiple grounds.
I can agree with this. But it's partly why it loses points for me. I don't really want to hear their modern take of the past, one thing I like about DT is that they do something different on each album. I'd like to see them continue to do push forward, instead of looking backwards. And no it doesn't need to tread new grounds, but so many of their other epics do, which makes it hard for BAI to stand out compared to them.
When I listen to BAI, I just don't hear a song where the guys sat down and said "alright guys, we gotta deliver and chug out an epic-esque tune for the fans". It sounds like they had a jam going and just ran with it, and out came gold. I'm sure the song-writing process was a lot more complex than that, but I honestly feel like it's just straight stream of consciousness from them (and yeah, I went there).
...but this I just don't hear. It sounds extremely formulated to me.
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Totally agree, bosk! I'm a big supporter of the past two albums. Can't wait to see what DT does next, because I couldn't have been happier with the past two releases.
I agree. The last two releases rejuvenated my interest in the band. BCASL and SC were good, but I didn't find myself going back to them like I did ADTOE and DT12
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I can see why some would say that ADTOE as a whole is them going through the motions...
Honestly, I can't. The album is such a strong return to form, IMO. I have been a fan since 1992, and I strongly enjoy all of their albums. But I can honestly say that this was the first DT album where there isn't a single song on the album that I don't care for. This and DT12 are easily their most consistently strong albums from start to finish. More of that, please!
Agreed. I think it's a vast improvement over the previous two releases.
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It's honestly the most natural sounding song on the album. That's part of what makes it so great. I don't get how it feels "forced" at all.
I agree. BAI is a perfect representation of how a song should flow. :tup
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Agree on the whole BAI discussion, it's one of DT's most natural songs and is absolutely beautiful throughout the whole thing
Most overrated album is probably Scenes. Not even that it's bad, it's just the only one I see with NO criticism throughout the community and it gets insanely glorified.
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Most overrated album is probably Scenes. Not even that it's bad, it's just the only one I see with NO criticism throughout the community and it gets insanely glorified.
Even if that were true (which it isn't), that doesn't necessarily mean that the praise is undeserved.
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For me it's 100% Awake. Everyone raves about it but I just can't get into It beyond the opening three songs.
I'd rather listen to Falling Into Infinity.
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Most overrated album is probably Scenes. Not even that it's bad, it's just the only one I see with NO criticism throughout the community and it gets insanely glorified.
Even if that were true (which it isn't), that doesn't necessarily mean that the praise is undeserved.
I think it does.. He doesn't like that much the album, so it's undeserved for him.. That's what this thread is all about.. We're not talking about general opinions here, but about personal opinions..
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Most overrated album is probably Scenes. Not even that it's bad, it's just the only one I see with NO criticism throughout the community and it gets insanely glorified.
Even if that were true (which it isn't), that doesn't necessarily mean that the praise is undeserved.
I think it does.. He doesn't like that much the album, so it's undeserved for him.. That's what this thread is all about.. We're not talking about general opinions here, but about personal opinions..
I think bosk was referring to Near's statement about Scenes not having any criticism, which is most certainly not true.
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Most overrated album is probably Scenes. Not even that it's bad, it's just the only one I see with NO criticism throughout the community and it gets insanely glorified.
Even if that were true (which it isn't), that doesn't necessarily mean that the praise is undeserved.
I think it does.. He doesn't like that much the album, so it's undeserved for him.. That's what this thread is all about.. We're not talking about general opinions here, but about personal opinions..
I think bosk was referring to Near's statement about Scenes not having any criticism, which is most certainly not true.
In fact Bosk mentioned two things: first, what you just said (and with which I also agree), and second, what I said up there.. I think if that were true (SFAM with no criticism at all) Near would be free to say that the album doesn't deserve such praise..
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Definitely 6 Degrees for me. The new album ranking thread just confirms it - out of 11 posts in there so far, only 2 have it ranked outside their top 5 (and both of them have it at only 7th). For some reason it's just never done it for me. Aside from The Glass Prison, none of the songs stand out as being great to me and even my love of TGP is beginning to wane. The thing is, it's not like it's filled with a load of songs I dislike or anything and I feel like it has the elements that should appeal to me, but for whatever reason it just doesn't.
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A Dramatic Turn of Events
This
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Definitely Awake. I'm consistently surprised how many people rank it in their Top 5 or even 1st.
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Either ADTOE or BCSL.
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Awake. It's a great album, but not on the same level as IaW and SFaM like most people on here say it is.
I agree. It's above both of them. :biggrin:
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Black clouds ... For me .
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Awake and SDOIT. They both constitute a significant drop after the masterpieces that preceeded them (I&W, SFAM), thus they're somewhat disappointing for me, but often rated just as highly here on DTF.
Awake is overall solid, with a few 'miss' songs (CIAW, SDV). I like the rest, but nothing really stands out and I can't think of a song off the top of my head that would easily crack my top 20. In DT terms, it's a consistently average album. I have a newfound appreciation for The Mirror + Lie thanks to the fantastic BTFW version, I couldn't even get through them before.
SDOIT features two of my favorite DT songs back to back (TGP, Blind Faith, both top 5 material), but I usually skip through the rest of the album, as all the remaining songs feel bloated and they drag quite a lot (although they have some really good moments too).
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Awake.
It is for the most part, beloved by DT fans but for me, it hasn't passed the test of time for me. I don't spin it much compared to other DT albums.
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6DOIT for me. The good songs are great but the rest ranges from "average" to "an overly bloated mess that pretends to be a song but is inherently 8 songs mashed together haphazardly, and while most of the songs are fine on their own none of them are that special"
the problem with SDOIT is that I really like about 1/3rd of it (TGP + Misunderstood + Disappear together total about 30 minutes) and the rest I never really *want* to listen to
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Awake.
It is for the most part, beloved by DT fans but for me, it hasn't passed the test of time for me. I don't spin it much compared to other DT albums.
Curious...what about it has put you off? You and I usually have similar tastes I've noticed. For me, from Innocence Faded till the end there isn't a bad song.
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Not that it's a bad album but have you ever skipped certain albums in a bands discography? It just doesn't connect to me as a whole album. Sure there are song I love on it but as a whole, on the bottom end of my DT ranking.
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With Dream Theater, there aren't any albums I skip. There might be specific songs on a CD I pass over, but every album gets my listen at some point or another. Now, I probably listen to WDADU the least so that might be the same as what you're referring to.
With some other bands, yes. Like, I never listen to The Final Cut by Pink Floyd.
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Yeah, like you said, I listen to it but I gravitate to other albums more.
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As soon as I finish listening to King Crimson, I'm going to listen to WDADU but with James on vocals. :biggrin:
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Most overrated album is probably Scenes. Not even that it's bad, it's just the only one I see with NO criticism throughout the community and it gets insanely glorified.
Even if that were true (which it isn't), that doesn't necessarily mean that the praise is undeserved.
I think it does.. He doesn't like that much the album, so it's undeserved for him.. That's what this thread is all about.. We're not talking about general opinions here, but about personal opinions..
I think bosk was referring to Near's statement about Scenes not having any criticism, which is most certainly not true.
In fact Bosk mentioned two things: first, what you just said (and with which I also agree), and second, what I said up there.. I think if that were true (SFAM with no criticism at all) Near would be free to say that the album doesn't deserve such praise..
Sorry about the quote pyramid here, yes I was just saying that I personally almost never see criticism, and although I love the album it isn't my favorite. I'm sure it's there, it's just the only album where I see that's the case, and this is a personal opinion thread after all :biggrin:
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Wow. I thought I'd be the only person to select Awake.
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Wow. I thought I'd be the only person to select Awake.
i think it's well known that Blob isn't a fan of it and i've never liked it. Apart from the opening three songs which are all great - it's really boring.
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Scenes from a M*gets shot in the head*
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Wow. I thought I'd be the only person to select Awake.
I would have selected Awake if SDOIT did not exist. I like Awake well enough, but to me it does not belong on the same tier as IAW and SFAM. I'd rate it around seventh in the discography.
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Scenes from a M*gets shot in the head*
I agree . I originally went for TOT but I've changed my mind after seeing the album rankings thread ;D
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Nobody agrees with BC&SL being overrated lol
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Nobody agrees with BC&SL being overrated lol
Given DTF's general opinion of BCASL, it's not even possible for it to be overrated.
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ADTOE. I have no desire to listen to it which has never happened to me with a DT album. It was fun initially but loses it's appeal quickly. That is why I don't understand why it is so talked up. To top it off, Breaking All Illusions is hailed as one of the best songs but I think it is near the bottom for me, a skipper actually. Please people, hold the flames.
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Nobody agrees with BC&SL being overrated lol
Given DTF's general opinion of BCASL, it's not even possible for it to be overrated.
That's almost as funny as Awake having the most votes. :lol :rollin :lol
ADTOE. I have no desire to listen to it which has never happened to me with a DT album. It was fun initially but loses it's appeal quickly. That is why I don't understand why it is so talked up. To top it off, Breaking All Illusions is hailed as one of the best songs but I think it is near the bottom for me, a skipper actually. Please people, hold the flames.
:flame: :eek :loser:
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Awake.
As others have said, I don't think it's on par with the top two that most say (I&w and SFAM). Doesnt mean it's bad, or that it is beneath tier 2. Just not the greatest IMO.
What turns me off from it is it sounds sterile to me. I didn't really like the combo of Recto/mark2 or 4, at least with the production. And the aggressive vocals are hit and miss to me.
That said, Scarred may be my top song from DT ever. SDV is great and so on.
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I voted for Awake, but I could also have casted my vote on any of the last two DT albums, which to my surprise many people considered average or even good :biggrin:
I prefer conversations about underratedness, though. Most underrated backing vocalist? Most underrated vocalist before the Chris Cintron era? Underrated DT managers? Most underrated song without a chorus? Most underrated Myung look? We should have threads about all these topics.