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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: nikatapi on November 27, 2014, 12:31:01 AM
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EDIT: You can read the interview here: noisefull.com/interviews/mike-mangini-dream-theater (https://noisefull.com/interviews/mike-mangini-dream-theater)
So i'm interviewing Mike Mangini now that he is in Greece (first time meeting him in person), and i wanted to ask him a few questions from DTF members. Feel free to give me your questions.
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1. If he could elaborate on the click tracks:
- what exactly is he hearing (e.g. straight 8th notes without accent)
- is it challenging? fun? frustrating? can he let loose or does he have to intensely focus all the way through a show?
- how can he recover if he screws up (some stories)?
- will anything change in the future, does he want any changes (dropping the clicks, altering the BPM)?
2. Last tour he thickened up his cymbals. Is he planning to do any alterations to his drum set next year?
3. Is he satisfied with his drum sound on Breaking the Fourth Wall? How does it compare to LALP & DT12? (the consensus among fans being that BTFW featured his best drum sound by far)
4. If he could elaborate on that controversial interview which was translated and posted here a while back.
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Two simple questions : how does he explain the mess concerning the drums mixing on DT12 ? :xbones
Is he really satisfied by how the drums sound on the album ? :|
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How often does he get to utilize his insane knack for creating bizarre cross-rhythms in DT songs, and what are a couple of his favourite examples?
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His feelings about being part of the greatest band on earth ? :biggrin:
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Please, God, ask him his favorite brand of cigars. I've been trying to get this answered for a couple of years now, ever since I discovered that we shared this vice.
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His feelings about being part of the greatest band on earth only for them to split up after recording Waiting for the Punchline ? :biggrin:
Fix'd
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1. If he could elaborate on the click tracks:
- what exactly is he hearing (e.g. straight 8th notes without accent)
- is it challenging? fun? frustrating? can he let loose or does he have to intensely focus all the way through a show?
- how can he recover if he screws up (some stories)?
- will anything change in the future, does he want any changes (dropping the clicks, altering the BPM)?
3. Is he satisfied with his drum sound on Breaking the Fourth Wall? How does it compare to LALP & DT12? (the consensus among fans being that BTFW featured his best drum sound by far)
Excellent suggestions.
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Assuming he had not participated in the drummers audition... Who do he think that would have been the ideal drummer for DT? Not just one of the other six, but anyone in the world (except MP of course).
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How long was it between the audition and when he got the call? How did he celebrate?
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How does it feel to be nominated for a Grammy?
I'm kidding, please don't ask that.
So given that we've heard through a grapevine that he's been very stressed on this tour, I have a question a little more elaborate, but that can relate to that, although if you could think of a better way to word it, that'd be great:
Has being with DT so far met his expectations as to what it would be like to be a part of this band? What are some aspects of being in DT that he wasn't originally anticipating?
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Most of the questions (besides the cigars) were already in the line even before posting the thread, so i guess the interview will give you some interesting answers. :metal
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Now that he's involved in DT's songwriting, how does he contribute? Does he play guitar, bass or keys enough or in some other way come up with melodic ideas, or is it primarily the song structure and time signatures that he's focused on during songwriting?
What things would he personally like to do on the next DT album that he hasn't done yet? What direction would he personally like to see the next album go in?
Considering how challenging it was for him on this last tour, how does he feel about the band performing more Evening With shows in the future?
What songs from the MP-era has he enjoyed playing the most? Of the MP-era songs he hasn't played live yet, which ones is he looking forward to learning the most?
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First of all, lucky bastard! :tup
Second of, please quote DTF nicknames while doing the questions to him, and record it if possible! Please!
and 3rd. I've done this question to Jordan already and his answer was positive: is there any way or possibility to blend latin rhythms (like latin jazz) with any DT material in a near future?
PS. Jordan's answer was that he loves latin jazz since is an amazing genre and that if he could take a year off to study it he would definitely do it. ;)
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Now that he's involved in DT's songwriting, how does he contribute? Does he play guitar, bass or keys enough or in some other way come up with melodic ideas, or is it primarily the song structure and time signatures that he's focused on during songwriting?
Good question. In one of those DT skype chats a while back, JP was going through his laptop and had some of the song ideas for DT12 and said something like, "Oops, don't want to accidentally click that one. That was one of MM's ideas...we didn't use. Sorry Mike." Mike shruggedMade me wonder if he actually came to them with a riff or something.
What songs from the MP-era has he enjoyed playing the most? Of the MP-era songs he hasn't played live yet, which ones is he looking forward to learning the most?
At a clinic in 2012(ish), he stated he liked The Dark Eternal Night the best. Would be interesting to hear if that has changed and also what his favorite one of his era is too.
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This is the only one I'd ask to him (and every other member): he goes to see live bands? which ones in that case?
And I ask for this too:
Please quote DTF nicknames while doing the questions to him, and record it if possible! Please!
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-Is playing live to click tracks something you are intending to make a standard for Dream Theater in the foreseeable future, or do you view as just one approach to explore for a few tours or some temporary amount of time?
-What are your favorite 70's classic rock bands and drummers from those bands?
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What has been the most challenging MP era song to play/learn so far?
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For the record, every interview I've seen of MM, he refers to those songs as DT's "Back Catalog," so maybe when asking these questions, you should use this term instead of "Mike Portnoy Era Song".
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Will he ever be writing/contributing any lyrics, especially for the next album?
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1. If he could elaborate on the click tracks:
- what exactly is he hearing (e.g. straight 8th notes without accent)
- is it challenging? fun? frustrating? can he let loose or does he have to intensely focus all the way through a show?
- how can he recover if he screws up (some stories)?
- will anything change in the future, does he want any changes (dropping the clicks, altering the BPM)?
3. Is he satisfied with his drum sound on Breaking the Fourth Wall? How does it compare to LALP & DT12? (the consensus among fans being that BTFW featured his best drum sound by far)
Excellent suggestions.
I third this. Especially the questions about the click tracks. Very interested to know!
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Did he feel like the odd man out in Annihilator ? ;D
(https://www.metallus.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Annihilator1.jpg)
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Did he feel like the odd man out in Annihilator ? ;D
(https://www.metallus.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Annihilator1.jpg)
HAAAAAAAAAA!! This is amazing.
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Did he feel like the odd man out in Annihilator ? ;D
(https://www.metallus.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Annihilator1.jpg)
HAAAAAAAAAA!! This is amazing.
winner :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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Do you prefer the term "soul patch" or "flavor saver"?
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I'm sure you'll probably ask this anyway, but just in case it'd be nice to have an ideas of DT 's plans for 2015.
Will they be doing futher touring? When will then enter the studio to start the next album? Are they gonna take time off to record solo projects such as JPs 2nd solo album and JLB's EP as we previously heard about?
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Just wondering, is this gonna be a video interview, audio interview, or just text? I much prefer video/audio interviews to anything else, so it would be great if you could make that format available. :tup
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Might night be the kind of question he would like to answer but I am curious why when playing live he chooses to scale it back on the outro to Finally Free as opposed to MP's fill selection.
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Just wondering, is this gonna be a video interview, audio interview, or just text? I much prefer video/audio interviews to anything else, so it would be great if you could make that format available. :tup
Preferably video with transcript! It's nice to have both.
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Just wondering, is this gonna be a video interview, audio interview, or just text? I much prefer video/audio interviews to anything else, so it would be great if you could make that format available. :tup
Preferably video with transcript! It's nice to have both.
Well, yes, I'm not saying there shouldn't be a transcript. Video would be nice, but even if he can't find a camera operator, journalists always record audio of the interview anyway, so since that kind of automatically exists by default, I don't see why it shouldn't be made available alongside the transcript.
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"Interviewing Mike Mangini in a few days..." :yeahright
In a few weeks ? Months ? :corn
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Just one left.
Mike, can you sing? If so, plan to make some backing vocals here and there, as needed, in future shows?
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Just one left.
Mike, can you sing? If so, plan to make some backing vocals here and there, as needed, in future shows?
As long as he doesn't sound like MP.
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::)
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I'm just saying! If they do AROP next tour, I don't want to hear MM screaming, "Brothahood!" during the first verse.
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I'm just saying! If they do AROP next tour, I don't want to hear MM screaming, "Brothahood!" during the first verse.
If they do AROP next tour, it will be a backing track of JLB, with JP at the microphone.
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I'm just saying! If they do AROP next tour, I don't want to hear MM screaming, "Brothahood!" during the first verse.
If they do AROP next tour, it will be a backing track of JLB, with JP at the microphone anyway.
Meaning MM won't be doing backup vocals.
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And JP lip syncing "BROTHAHOOD!"
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And JP lip syncing "BROTHAHOOD!"
But not necessarily. I mean, they didn't use a backing track for Metropolis on LALP.
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Please, God, ask him his favorite brand of cigars. I've been trying to get this answered for a couple of years now, ever since I discovered that we shared this vice.
In case I wasn't clear, ask this question. Or I will be tempted to do bad things.
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Please, God, ask him his favorite brand of cigars. I've been trying to get this answered for a couple of years now, ever since I discovered that we shared this vice.
In case I wasn't clear, ask this question. Or I will be tempted to do bad things.
Well, i did the interview which will be published soon, but i didn't have the time to ask this. Unfortunately Mike was about to do warmup and he already asked the manager for more time when he came in and told us to be quick.
I have to say, Mike is a really great guy, very humble and genuine, i was impressed by the passion he had when talking about the band and the inner workings during the writing of the album.
Here's a picture of me and Mike, so you know i'm not bullshiting you :lol
(https://photos-1.dropbox.com/t/1/AADPQR_vva04_FEGqSxa9c6Ng7tdOrNaPwGUSf9xQ-vU4w/12/28274475/jpeg/1024x768/3/1417471200/0/2/2014-11-30%2017.50.23.jpg/99kxHSVvXNVGWjloHEDCBn2IJ0PrpZug_WDBVRE5qNg)
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Here's a picture of me and Mike, so you know i'm not bullshiting you :lol
(https://photos-1.dropbox.com/t/1/AADPQR_vva04_FEGqSxa9c6Ng7tdOrNaPwGUSf9xQ-vU4w/12/28274475/jpeg/1024x768/3/1417471200/0/2/2014-11-30%2017.50.23.jpg/99kxHSVvXNVGWjloHEDCBn2IJ0PrpZug_WDBVRE5qNg)
Is he still wearing the hand/wrist splint when he isn't onstage?
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Here's a picture of me and Mike, so you know i'm not bullshiting you :lol
(https://photos-1.dropbox.com/t/1/AADPQR_vva04_FEGqSxa9c6Ng7tdOrNaPwGUSf9xQ-vU4w/12/28274475/jpeg/1024x768/3/1417471200/0/2/2014-11-30%2017.50.23.jpg/99kxHSVvXNVGWjloHEDCBn2IJ0PrpZug_WDBVRE5qNg)
How do we know that's you? :lol
j/k bro.
Awesome!
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Is he still wearing the hand/wrist splint when he isn't onstage?
We wasn't wearing it when he came to the venue, but later he wore it. Actually he talked about that during the Zildjian event, he said that he wears the headband to keep the in-ear monitors in place, and the hat on top so he doesn't look weird :lol
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Please, God, ask him his favorite brand of cigars. I've been trying to get this answered for a couple of years now, ever since I discovered that we shared this vice.
In case I wasn't clear, ask this question. Or I will be tempted to do bad things.
Well, i did the interview which will be published soon, but i didn't have the time to ask this.
I wonder what kind of bad things hef is gonna do now! :biggrin:
How do we know that's you? :lol
LOL! That's the first thought that came to my mind when I saw his picture!
Seriously, looking forward to seeing/reading this interview. Just out of curiosity, how long did the interview last?
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Seriously, looking forward to seeing/reading this interview. Just out of curiosity, how long did the interview last?
It's me guys, trust me. The interview was about 20 minutes long.
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I was just kidding. :)
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I was just kidding. :)
I know man, no hard feelings :tup
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Please, God, ask him his favorite brand of cigars. I've been trying to get this answered for a couple of years now, ever since I discovered that we shared this vice.
In case I wasn't clear, ask this question. Or I will be tempted to do bad things.
Well, i did the interview which will be published soon, but i didn't have the time to ask this.
I wonder what kind of bad things hef is gonna do now! :biggrin:
I don't know yet.
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Hef thinking it over..............
(https://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Disneys-Hades-Burns-His-Cigar-With-Firey-Anger.gif)
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:lol
Have you met MM yet? :caffeine:
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:lol
Have you met MM yet? :caffeine:
Who, me? No.
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Well... get on it then.
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Well... get on it then.
I haven't met any of them. I've only seen DT live once (RCMH).
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I actually wondered if nikatapi has met him yet for the interview.
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I actually wondered if nikatapi has met him yet for the interview.
There's a photo of them together a few posts up so I'm guessing yes ;)
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I actually wondered if nikatapi has met him yet for the interview.
There's a photo of them together a few posts up so I'm guessing yes ;)
The photo doesn't show for me. When I open it in a new tab I get a 404 error.
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Well... get on it then.
I haven't met any of them. I've only seen DT live once (RCMH).
(https://media20.giphy.com/media/JrlfQk5rQm9Xy/giphy.gif?w=320)
I know you live a bit in the sticks, but ... wtf?
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Well... get on it then.
I haven't met any of them. I've only seen DT live once (RCMH).
I know you live a bit in the sticks, but ... wtf?
On the other hand, I live where we don't even get the sticks, and I've seen them 3 times. wtf hef.
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I actually wondered if nikatapi has met him yet for the interview.
Yeah man, the interview is done, i need to start transcribing it now. I will post a link as soon as it is published.
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I actually wondered if nikatapi has met him yet for the interview.
Yeah man, the interview is done, i need to start transcribing it now. I will post a link as soon as it is published.
Excellent :tup
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Well... get on it then.
I haven't met any of them. I've only seen DT live once (RCMH).
(https://media20.giphy.com/media/JrlfQk5rQm9Xy/giphy.gif?w=320)
I know you live a bit in the sticks, but ... wtf?
You have no idea.
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Still waiting... :corn
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Still waiting... :corn
You'll be waiting for a while, i need to transcribe the interview first, and it takes a little while.
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what did he smell like? did he smell like fine cigar smoke and brandy? thats how I imagine him smelling. and wood, birch or maple I dunno.
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what did he smell like? did he smell like fine cigar smoke and brandy? thats how I imagine him smelling. and wood, birch or maple I dunno.
Lol, it's funny how the type of smoke and alcohol can have so much influence on our perception.
Cigar Smoke and Brandy = Classy
Menthols and Vodka = White Trash :lol
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what did he smell like? did he smell like fine cigar smoke and brandy? thats how I imagine him smelling. and wood, birch or maple I dunno.
This exactly
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The three times I met him he was fresh out of the shower after the gig, so I got nuthin'. :lol
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The three times I met him he was fresh out of the shower after the gig, so I got nuthin'. :lol
What kind of shampoo does he use? Pe(a)rt Plus?
-Marc.
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The three times I met him he was fresh out of the shower after the gig, so I got nuthin'. :lol
What kind of shampoo does he use? Pe(a)rt Plus?
-Marc.
:facepalm:
:lol
When I met him he was fresh drinking a Stella.
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The three times I met him he was fresh out of the shower after the gig, so I got nuthin'. :lol
I met them all twice (can you actually meet someone twice?), no MP BTW, and yes, MM same thing, fresh out of the shower, great guys overall, JM still an enigma but a very polite, quite, humble guy. All i can say is that i smelled their pizza, does that work for you guys?
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The three times I met him he was fresh out of the shower after the gig, so I got nuthin'. :lol
What kind of shampoo does he use? Pe(a)rt Plus?
-Marc.
:facepalm:
:lol
When I met him he was fresh drinking a Stella.
ewwww. my opinion of the man has soured somewhat.
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ewwww. my opinion of the man has soured somewhat.
Oh come on. My opinion of JLB didn't sour when I found out he drinks Chai Lattes.
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ewwww. my opinion of the man has soured somewhat.
Oh come on. My opinion of JLB didn't sour when I found out he drinks Chai Lattes.
Because chai latte's are delicious when the occasion calls. Stella's taste like a piece of shit. They call Stella's 'wife beaters' round here :lol
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Stella is the classic "beer nobody in the origin country drinks". Same holds for Beck's, Foster's etc. Except Bud. People actually drink that.
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Except Bud. People actually drink that.
God knows why.
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I think we all know the answer.
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Because chai latte's are delicious when the occasion calls. Stella's taste like a piece of shit. They call Stella's 'wife beaters' round here :lol
If by delicious you mean have all the wonderful flavor of scented hand soap, then sure, they're delicious.
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ewwww. my opinion of the man has soured somewhat.
Oh come on. My opinion of JLB didn't sour when I found out he drinks Chai Lattes.
Because chai latte's are delicious when the occasion calls. Stella's taste like a piece of shit. They call Stella's 'wife beaters' round here :lol
I'm teetotal but Stella does indeed taste fucking awful. I don't know how people can drink it. To me it tastes like seawater and vinegar.
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Interviewing Mike Mangini in a few days...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz................. :justjen :yeahright
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Interviewing Mike Mangini in a few days...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz................. :justjen :yeahright
???
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Here's actually a question: Do you have to clear the questions beforehand with DT management/MM?
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Here's actually a question: Do you have to clear the questions beforehand with DT management/MM?
Well, no. But Mike very politely asked me to send him the transcription (because we're not releasing audio) once i'm done, to make sure that what is written is what he meant while talking. He told me that sometimes he might say something that gets misunderstood, or maybe he doesn't mean it this way, so he wants to make sure his message comes across.
But no limits to questions whatsoever, at least that's my experience, there was no DT manager there, only the manager from Zildjian who is a very nice and friendly guy. Actually Mike asked for more time when he came to warn us about time running out, and he was cool with it.
And i know it's taking a while, so here's a funny moment from the interview just to keep you entertained https://soundcloud.com/nikatapi/mm-funny (https://soundcloud.com/nikatapi/mm-funny)
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Aww man, why no audio?
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Aww man, why no audio?
Sorry man, i might release the audio later, but our site doesn't do audio interviews yet. (not my rules)
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That sucks. You should do like a DTF Happy Holidays release of the audio interview. :lol
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That sucks. You should do like a DTF Happy Holidays release of the audio interview. :lol
:lol :lol :lol
Great idea!
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Interviewing Mike Mangini in a few days...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz................. :justjen :yeahright
I hear Ed Norton is a bell end to work with.
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Here's actually a question: Do you have to clear the questions beforehand with DT management/MM?
Well, no. But Mike very politely asked me to send him the transcription (because we're not releasing audio) once i'm done, to make sure that what is written is what he meant while talking. He told me that sometimes he might say something that gets misunderstood, or maybe he doesn't mean it this way, so he wants to make sure his message comes across.
Wow. I wonder if this is a new thing. Surely he can't read every interview he does, even though he doesn't do an insane amount of interviews, that would take up an incredible amount of time.
I'm thinking this may be in response to one of his recent interviews that got people buzzing about something he said about Portnoy. I can't even remember what it was because I didn't think it was that big of a deal but some people got a bit miffed at it.
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Wow. I wonder if this is a new thing. Surely he can't read every interview he does, even though he doesn't do an insane amount of interviews, that would take up an incredible amount of time.
I'm thinking this may be in response to one of his recent interviews that got people buzzing about something he said about Portnoy. I can't even remember what it was because I didn't think it was that big of a deal but some people got a bit miffed at it.
Well, I'm sure touring, and spending all that time on the bus, or plane, there is some reading time.
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Ok friends, it's finally published, and you can read it here! https://noisefull.com/interviews/mike-mangini-dream-theater (https://noisefull.com/interviews/mike-mangini-dream-theater)
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Great read! He has a really great energy and attitude.
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That's like one of the most informative MM interviews ever. Especially regarding the Dream Theater album. Amazing. :)
And I was right. That Tu tu tu pa tu part in IT is MM. ;)
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Great interview! :tup
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Thanks for the interview! Very interesting read
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Great interview! :tup
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Excellent read, great interview.
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Awesome interview!
Man, reading that last part, I say we can wait for the next album. Let the guys have some R&R for a few months.
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Might as well start discussing it!
- I'm not sure I understand why the size of his kit became a sound issue in the studio (because of bleeding), but not on BTFW. I think it's pretty safe to say that they were under more time pressure setting up at the Opera House than in the studio.
- I think it's interesting to hear (or at least hear him allude to) the rationale behind the click tracks and the fixed setlists. I probably have to say "let's agree to disagree", because I kinda go to live shows for exactly the variability he mentions.
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Thank you for the feedback, i hope you enjoyed reading the interview!
Might as well start discussing it!
- I'm not sure I understand why the size of his kit became a sound issue in the studio (because of bleeding), but not on BTFW. I think it's pretty safe to say that they were under more time pressure setting up at the Opera House than in the studio.
- I think it's interesting to hear (or at least hear him allude to) the rationale behind the click tracks and the fixed setlists. I probably have to say "let's agree to disagree", because I kinda go to live shows for exactly the variability he mentions.
I think that the fixed setlist makes things easier for everyone, band and the crew, so i guess this is the number one reason why it's happening. Jordan also said that the whole rotating setlist thing was weird, tiring and sometimes frustrating for them. Of course i understand why this was something that made the band unique, but i can't blame them for trying to better performers and keeping their piece of mind.
Also a point that i didn't see mentioned, and i don't know if it was mentioned in another interview, is that Mike didn't like the snare sound, just went along with it, trying not to be egoistical. Personally i still don't like it, but i'm impressed by how tactful and respectful Mike is, since it's his sound we're talking about, but he can take a step back if there is a vision behind the change. Very cool.
Another thing, is his ADTOE sound, i couldn't agree more, and i felt while talking in person that he is not very fond of his sound on the album.
This whole discussion makes me optimistic about the next album, we see progress with each album, so i guess the next one will be even better in terms of drum sound.
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I think that the fixed setlist makes things easier for everyone, band and the crew, so i guess this is the number one reason why it's happening. Jordan also said that the whole rotating setlist thing was weird, tiring and sometimes frustrating for them. Of course i understand why this was something that made the band unique, but i can't blame them for trying to better performers and keeping their piece of mind.
Plus JP said that it was a presentation issue, wanting the whole set to be its own journey in the way it's experienced. So there's that.
Though I do think having two or three songs switch back and forth wasn't a bad thing, like last time. But this time, I definitely had peace of mind in not having to worry that I won't get to hear the "better" setlist, or miss out on certain songs.
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Plus JP said that it was a presentation issue, wanting the whole set to be its own journey in the way it's experienced. So there's that.
Though I do think having two or three songs switch back and forth wasn't a bad thing, like last time. But this time, I definitely had peace of mind in not having to worry that I won't get to hear the "better" setlist, or miss out on certain songs.
Yeah this is true, it's great to have rotating setlists for people who see DT multiple times on the same tour, but for others it sucks knowing that they played some songs that they didn't see live.
Oh, and since the interview is very drum-sound focused, i have to say that during the clinic Mike sounded incredible, everything was so clear, powerful and bright. He played The Enemy Inside and the first part of Illumination Theory, along with some improvisations.
Here are some pictures:
(https://www.rocking.gr/images/interviews/2014/mangini-cover-484x242.jpg)
(https://www.rocking.gr/images/interviews/2014/mangini1.jpg)
(https://www.rocking.gr/images/interviews/2014/mangini2.jpg)
(https://www.rocking.gr/images/interviews/2014/mangini6.jpg)
(https://www.rocking.gr/images/interviews/2014/mangini7.jpg)
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Great interview man.
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That was a very informative and interesting interview. You can tell just from reading it that he's a true team player. He's always thinking about the grand scheme of things and how his abilities play into what eventually becomes a finished product. That, to me, is a terrific quality for anyone to have.
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Really cool interview, congratulations!
It was very nice to see that MM mentioned the drum sounds of Mullmuzzler 2 and EoP! The first is my favourite drums performance recorded by MM and the second is my favourite MM drums sound recording (on the last matter, it appears he thinks so too).
He seems to be totally a great guy, always thinking in the team etc but I wish sometimes he could be more "selfish" with his approval of the drum sound. It seems that he really understand what a good drum sound is (of course).
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To OP: Thanks so much for taking the time to do this interview!
About to read it now.
I have a minor request though. Could you possibly edit your original post and put the link to the interview in it? It took me awhile to find the link in this thread, as I had to go back and search for it. For those who haven't read it yet, it'd make it easy for them if it was in your first post.
Thanks in advance, excited to read this!
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To OP: Thanks so much for taking the time to do this interview!
About to read it now.
I have a minor request though. Could you possibly edit your original post and put the link to the interview in it? It took me awhile to find the link in this thread, as I had to go back and search for it. For those who haven't read it yet, it'd make it easy for them if it was in your first post.
Thanks in advance, excited to read this!
I did that edit, thanks for your suggestion, i hope you enjoy reading this.
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Nice job, Nick. Great questions. I have never once heard the humming in OTBOA brought up before. I've actually never heard the hum myself.
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Excellent interview, these things are always so much better and more interesting when an informed fan does them. Thanks for taking the time to type all that up.
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Excellent interview, these things are always so much better and more interesting when an informed fan does them.
This, totally. The reason I don't read most interviews is because the questions are so generic that you could plant a different artist into the scene, and you'd still get the same answers. It's like this (https://i.imgur.com/gUgkpTx.jpg).
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Great interview, good work Nikos!
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Thank you for the kind words, i really appreciate it coming from you, and i wanted to be an interview that would interest us all, we are DT nerds after all, and personally i don't like to see the same old questions answered everytime. I think Mike understood that and this is why we went into such detail in his answers.
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I'll echo everyone else by saying thanks, this really was an interesting read!
I find his thoughts on getting good clear isolation between his "ride" components on the kit and his toms really interesting. Maybe the guys should consider spending a little more time getting drum sounds next time around in the studio as MM suggests. At this point DT are in the studio so long writing and recording, in the grand scheme of things spending four or five days getting the drum sound right instead of one or two days isn't really that big a deal. And MM seems to think it'll help...
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It seems like he was saying he's not entirely responsible for the final drum sound in the most polite way possible, but if it were up to him he'd take a very long time to tweak and alter every detail until he's satisfied. :rollin
Although when he talks about 80 track drum layers it really puts it in perspective what a crazy job it'd be to manage all that stuff.
Anyway, fantastic insightful interview. Thanks nikatapi and of course thank you Mike. :D
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@mikeyd: The other option would be to decrease the size of the drum kit. I mean, his current kit is so jampacked, you hit a tom, and five other items will resonate because they are so close by.
Overall actually, what I took away from that interview is that there is a "sound war" going on in DT. Because JR's patches have enormous low end, and reverb, and overdrive, and JP's guitar is supposed to sound like rich chocolate cake, and MM's drums span the whole frequency and intensity spectrum, I think they find themselves recording stuff, and then try to squeeze into the available sonic space. And one way or the other, someone has to give.
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I like how he said he adjusted his playing with the cymbals when he found that his snare sound is not allowing him to do usual snare stuff like ghost notes. Looks like he is still very open to learning even at his level and age.
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I like how he said he adjusted his playing with the cymbals when he found that his snare sound is not allowing him to do usual snare stuff like ghost notes. Looks like he is still very open to learning even at his level and age.
Not unlike Neil Peart.
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Excellent interview, really enjoyed it :)
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@mikeyd: The other option would be to decrease the size of the drum kit. I mean, his current kit is so jampacked, you hit a tom, and five other items will resonate because they are so close by.
I don't know, still it seems that something is going wrong with the DT album's production nowadays... Mike Portnoy's kit was also very jampacked since FII and always sounded big and very clear since then.
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It seems like he was saying he's not entirely responsible for the final drum sound in the most polite way possible, but if it were up to him he'd take a very long time to tweak and alter every detail until he's satisfied. :rollin
Although when he talks about 80 track drum layers it really puts it in perspective what a crazy job it'd be to manage all that stuff.
Anyway, fantastic insightful interview. Thanks nikatapi and of course thank you Mike. :D
I imagine they'd group sections of the kit i.e. toms snare bass cymbals and then slave them all to a L & R fader.
With digital recording you can do virtual tracks and all sorts of groupings so it's not as hard as it would be on analog and tape.
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@mikeyd: The other option would be to decrease the size of the drum kit. I mean, his current kit is so jampacked, you hit a tom, and five other items will resonate because they are so close by.
Yep, that's definitely the other option! MM seems pretty keen on keeping the big kit so I don't know how realistic that option is.
I don't know, still it seems that something is going wrong with the DT album's production nowadays... Mike Portnoy's kit was also very jampacked since FII and always sounded big and very clear since then.
Two thoughts come to mind: (1) MP was one of the producers so he maintained the drum sound throughout the entire process, from setup to tracking to recording to mixing to mastering. He ensured the drums sat in a place in the final mix in which the details of his playing could be heard. This is pretty much human nature, wanting to make sure his contributions were clearly heard. You can see the same thing with JP now, the guitars are louder than usual because that's the human tendency.
(2) MP's kit was set up very different from MM's. So it's not always about the amount of channels the kit takes up but more about how those mics are positioned in the room in relation to one another. MP's set up was a little more traditional than MM's for the most part. He basically had two pretty widely used drum kit configurations put together, so engineers could probably tackle that project with a little more ease than MM's kit. Just my thoughts...
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On “Dream Theater”, I learned a lot about the feel with the time changes because my snare sound was completely different for me, I didn’t come up with it, and I evolved and changed because of that, here’s what I did: That really different sound made me put ghost notes off of the snare and on to ride cymbals and hi-hats, so essentially because of that change that was suggested to me, and because I was able to adapt to someone else’s ideas, I grew. I want to be clear about that, if I’m too stubborn with things that I want, the way I want them, how do you grow? But if something new comes along and I think “wow, this is really not what I want” but I’ll do it because people have a vision for something, I know that they trust me, that I’m a good guy, then let’s do it together, let’s work together and we’ll follow it.
This is a weird part in the interview. I mean, it's great that he's such a team player, but the phrases "I didn't come up with the snare sound" and "wow, this is really not what I want, but I'll do it for the greater good" made me scratch my head. Who imposed this sound on him? And, I'm not a drummer, but isn't being robbed of the ability of playing ghost notes usually a no-go for drummers?
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Can someone explain to me the whole ghost note thing. I know what they are, but I'm not sure I understand what their purpose is in drumming, nor do I understand how or why he'd be robbed of the ghost notes on his snare. Can someone explain this to me, please?
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Well, I'm assuming you know that ghost notes are very unaccented hits (usually the snare). Their purpose is that they infusee a given beat with dynamics and groove.
MM got "robbed" of them because the compression/gating on the snare sound caused them either to be completely cut out (gated) or the same volume as the main hits (compression).
I'm assuming the "vision" MM speaks of was coming from JP. So, when they set up the studio for the writing sessions, they must have approximated the drum sound enough that MM noticed ghost notes don't work, so he adjusted his playing to try to play some of it on the ride cbals. Not the same thing though really.
EDIT: Check out Gavin Harrison:
https://youtu.be/tLLx4zKyKwk
Listen only to the snare, the stuff he does between the main hits. Those are ghost notes.
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Okay, I see. I'm still not sure I understand why there was absolutely no way of getting around that, like by compressing some parts and not others, or by recording the ghost notes on a separate track and leaving them uncompressed, or something. But hey, what do I know?
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And I'm scratching my head because there are plenty of ghost notes on DT12 played on the snare, listen to the pre-chorus of Behind the Veil for instance (2:57). Even MP managed to get some ghost notes on the triggered I&W snare (LtL).
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(1) MP was one of the producers so he maintained the drum sound throughout the entire process, from setup to tracking to recording to mixing to mastering. He ensured the drums sat in a place in the final mix in which the details of his playing could be heard. This is pretty much human nature, wanting to make sure his contributions were clearly heard. You can see the same thing with JP now, the guitars are louder than usual because that's the human tendency.
This is all probably true, and it's why Dream Theater should not produce their own stuff. A producer's job is to get the best out of the entire band, not to make sure his parts stand out the most or whatever, especially at the expense of the others.
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(1) MP was one of the producers so he maintained the drum sound throughout the entire process, from setup to tracking to recording to mixing to mastering. He ensured the drums sat in a place in the final mix in which the details of his playing could be heard. This is pretty much human nature, wanting to make sure his contributions were clearly heard. You can see the same thing with JP now, the guitars are louder than usual because that's the human tendency.
This is all probably true, and it's why Dream Theater should not produce their own stuff. A producer's job is to get the best out of the entire band, not to make sure his parts stand out the most or whatever, especially at the expense of the others.
I also never understood why the engineer doesn't do this.
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On “Dream Theater”, I learned a lot about the feel with the time changes because my snare sound was completely different for me, I didn’t come up with it, and I evolved and changed because of that, here’s what I did: That really different sound made me put ghost notes off of the snare and on to ride cymbals and hi-hats, so essentially because of that change that was suggested to me, and because I was able to adapt to someone else’s ideas, I grew. I want to be clear about that, if I’m too stubborn with things that I want, the way I want them, how do you grow? But if something new comes along and I think “wow, this is really not what I want” but I’ll do it because people have a vision for something, I know that they trust me, that I’m a good guy, then let’s do it together, let’s work together and we’ll follow it.
This is a weird part in the interview. I mean, it's great that he's such a team player, but the phrases "I didn't come up with the snare sound" and "wow, this is really not what I want, but I'll do it for the greater good" made me scratch my head. Who imposed this sound on him? And, I'm not a drummer, but isn't being robbed of the ability of playing ghost notes usually a no-go for drummers?
I think JP and Chycki are the ones who have a vision of the overall sound of the album (you can hear the different sound also with the bass which is very lud but trebly). MM adjusted and played in accordance with this overall vision.
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I think JP and Chycki are the ones who have a vision of the overall sound of the album (you can hear the different sound also with the bass which is very lud but trebly). MM adjusted and played in accordance with this overall vision.
I have to admit though, I dug that bass.
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I think JP and Chycki are the ones who have a vision of the overall sound of the album (you can hear the different sound also with the bass which is very lud but trebly). MM adjusted and played in accordance with this overall vision.
I have to admit though, I dug that bass.
Bass sounded 10/10 for me on DT12.
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Of course, now I absolutely can't get that "I'm all about dat bass" song out of my head. Dammit!
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A producer for a band is a lot like a director for a movie. They have most of the say in what the final product is. Sure there is some label (i.e. studio) involvement in a lot of bands (films) but if there is not then the producer (director) has complete control.
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A producer for a band is a lot like a director for a movie. They have most of the say in what the final product is. Sure there is some label (i.e. studio) involvement in a lot of bands (films) but if there is not then the producer (director) has complete control.
The funny thing about this analogy is that in the case of non-pop acts, usually, the writers and the "cast" (band members) are the same people. And in the case of a lot of them, Dream Theater included, they've always been adamant that what they wrote, their vision is what the final product was. With I&W, based on every single demo that I've heard, aside from Oliver's Twist, that pretty much didn't change at all, aside from a couple of riffs that got extended, or little things here and there, but overall, listening to demos for those old songs, even the Charlie Dominici version of Metropolis, it largely stayed in tact, so in spite of all the crap that Prater got, at least he didn't try to change the actual compositions or dumb down what they wrote.
It's with FII that you can hear the REAL difference between the demos and the final product, especially in cases like Hollow Years, Take Away My Pain, Burning My Soul, etc.
But overall, with DT's past producers, I'd say as far as comparing them to "film directors", they've pretty much followed the original "script and the storyboards" very closely. So I guess in their particular case, they'd be pretty useless if they didn't take care of how things sound and the tone of things.
But if we're going to be making film comparisons, then the engineer would be like the Director Of Photography, and they'd be the ones making sure that things look good and taking care of the technical aspects of the camera work, the focus, etc.
So in the case of engineers, they make sure that the final vision is what the producer wants. But I don't see why they can't say, "Listen, this is not going to sound good. Listen to what's happening to the ghost notes," etc.
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Don't have anything to add other than your post was spot on.
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A producer for a band is a lot like a director for a movie. They have most of the say in what the final product is. Sure there is some label (i.e. studio) involvement in a lot of bands (films) but if there is not then the producer (director) has complete control.
The funny thing about this analogy is that in the case of non-pop acts, usually, the writers and the "cast" (band members) are the same people. And in the case of a lot of them, Dream Theater included, they've always been adamant that what they wrote, their vision is what the final product was. With I&W, based on every single demo that I've heard, aside from Oliver's Twist, that pretty much didn't change at all, aside from a couple of riffs that got extended, or little things here and there, but overall, listening to demos for those old songs, even the Charlie Dominici version of Metropolis, it largely stayed in tact, so in spite of all the crap that Prater got, at least he didn't try to change the actual compositions or dumb down what they wrote.
It's with FII that you can hear the REAL difference between the demos and the final product, especially in cases like Hollow Years, Take Away My Pain, Burning My Soul, etc.
But overall, with DT's past producers, I'd say as far as comparing them to "film directors", they've pretty much followed the original "script and the storyboards" very closely. So I guess in their particular case, they'd be pretty useless if they didn't take care of how things sound and the tone of things.
But if we're going to be making film comparisons, then the engineer would be like the Director Of Photography, and they'd be the ones making sure that things look good and taking care of the technical aspects of the camera work, the focus, etc.
So in the case of engineers, they make sure that the final vision is what the producer wants. But I don't see why they can't say, "Listen, this is not going to sound good. Listen to what's happening to the ghost notes," etc.
I don't agree at all. I listen to DT12, and on every song there's a frill or two that I think, "man, if only someone would have suggested they take their feet off the gas there".
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I don't agree at all. I listen to DT12, and on every song there's a frill or two that I think, "man, if only someone would have suggested they take their feet off the gas there".
But, that sounds like you ARE agreeing.
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If I couldn't ghost note on the snare, I would never make it through a performance. That's what gives you the groove.
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If I couldn't ghost note on the snare, I would never make it through a performance. That's what gives you the groove.
maybe that's the reason why MM does that Left and Right hi-hat playing in the first stanza of IT and in the instrumental of TLG, doing ghost-note like hits with the cymbals. He did not do that much in ADTOE (for example, he used a lot of ghost notes in the snare in the slow guitar solo in BAI).
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Great interview; thanks OP! Also, I didn't know about the ToT jam. It sounds really good!
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If I couldn't ghost note on the snare, I would never make it through a performance. That's what gives you the groove.
MM does plenty of snare ghost notes on DT12, I don't know why this is being perpetuated. Behind The Veil 2:57, for instance, and all over the guitar solo of The Bigger Picture.
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Behind the Veil at 2:57 has like one or two that got through, true. But note also that by the second time the figure comes around, those hits get compressed again to sound like main hits. That's what he is struggling with.
And, it's not exactly that we're "perpetuating" something here. He said it himself, can't be clearer than that right really.
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Behind the Veil at 2:57 has like one or two that got through, true. But note also that by the second time the figure comes around, those hits get compressed again to sound like main hits. That's what he is struggling with.
And, it's not exactly that we're "perpetuating" something here. He said it himself, can't be clearer than that right really.
It sounds like a similar deal in TBP, where they're initially much softer, then sound like full on hits by the end. Maybe he actually did play it like that, but to have that happen in both instances suggests it was perhaps difficult to get within within that range the compression allowed. It doesn't sound as organic and subtle as it does on older albums, through no fault of MM's.
MM didn't say he couldn't do ghost notes though, he said that the sound put him off doing it, but I doubt he's hearing it with with production while recording it, so it might just be down to the way the ghost notes sounded with the detuned snare. With softer dynamics it might not have sounded clear and snappy enough with that sound for him to be feeling it.
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I must say, it's a strange problem. I don't recall ever hearing such a thing from any other drummer.
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Behind the Veil at 2:57 has like one or two that got through, true. But note also that by the second time the figure comes around, those hits get compressed again to sound like main hits. That's what he is struggling with.
And, it's not exactly that we're "perpetuating" something here. He said it himself, can't be clearer than that right really.
He said that the snare sound made him put ghost notes off the snare to the rides and hi-hats, which you interpreted like a Sith (dealing in absolutes), saying that he was "robbed of the ability to play ghost notes", which obviously isn't the case, as there are lots of snare ghost notes on DT12. That's what's being falsely perpetuated. Moving some ghost notes to cymbals ≠ not being able to play them on the snare.
Moving on, MM posted this on FB:
An online helper of mine brought this clip to me in light of my wondering how far I should take the older DT drum tracks as different than the recorded versions. I think by now, that 97+% of fans seeing us know that I have respect for the original parts and I can now perform them similarly, but not exact to the record. The overwhelming amount of positive comments have helped me understand what the people that matter think.This is nice because THIS is where I'm took the pre-ADTOE songs after "...4th Wall" was shot and where I am going from now on. (...) So, No more just copying the recording fills. I felt like that what the right thing to do when playing an older tune for people live. From now on, it is pedal to the METAL.
We've seen this tendency for quite a while, but it's still contradictory to what JP & JR said in the drummer auditions video ("we need the old songs to sound a certain way"), often criticizing drummers who interpreted MP's parts too much. I'm glad they now officially changed this policy and MM can finally have his way.
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Well, I think it's a matter of if the essence of the songs is there. I mean, drummers like Peter Wildoer, for example, he's so aggressive that his style of drumming would fill every DT song with balls to the wall bombast. Or at least that's how he sounded on the audition. He's a great drummer, but I could hear at the audition, that in spite of playing the parts correctly, his style just didn't fit DT at all.
With what MM is doing with the fills, I don't think it's any different than what MP used to do when he'd improvise his fills. The essence of the song was still there, and it still felt right, but at the same time, it was just something a little more indulgent and impressive, which is what people generally want out of prog.
Plus at the beginning, I think they were more concerned with making sure the new drummer, whoever it would end up being, wouldn't alienate the fans. So I'm sure that state of mind was always meant to be temporary, just like ADTOE being made for the purpose of proving that they're still the "same band" and will put out the "same kind of music". At this point, I think MM has gotten as much acceptance from the DT fanbase as he we could possibly expect, so there's no pressure to prove that he's a right drummer for Dream Theater, anymore. People either agree that he is, or they want Portnoy back, and I doubt that's gonna change.
Not to mention, like he said, this is from the general fan consensus.
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Behind the Veil at 2:57 has like one or two that got through, true. But note also that by the second time the figure comes around, those hits get compressed again to sound like main hits. That's what he is struggling with.
And, it's not exactly that we're "perpetuating" something here. He said it himself, can't be clearer than that right really.
He said that the snare sound made him put ghost notes off the snare to the rides and hi-hats, which you interpreted like a Sith (dealing in absolutes), saying that he was "robbed of the ability to play ghost notes", which obviously isn't the case, as there are lots of snare ghost notes on DT12. That's what's being falsely perpetuated. Moving some ghost notes to cymbals ≠ not being able to play them on the snare.
Moving on, MM posted this on FB:
An online helper of mine brought this clip to me in light of my wondering how far I should take the older DT drum tracks as different than the recorded versions. I think by now, that 97+% of fans seeing us know that I have respect for the original parts and I can now perform them similarly, but not exact to the record. The overwhelming amount of positive comments have helped me understand what the people that matter think.This is nice because THIS is where I'm took the pre-ADTOE songs after "...4th Wall" was shot and where I am going from now on. (...) So, No more just copying the recording fills. I felt like that what the right thing to do when playing an older tune for people live. From now on, it is pedal to the METAL.
We've seen this tendency for quite a while, but it's still contradictory to what JP & JR said in the drummer auditions video ("we need the old songs to sound a certain way"), often criticizing drummers who interpreted MP's parts too much. I'm glad they now officially changed this policy and MM can finally have his way.
I think it is a bit unfair to say that it was a "policy" of theirs. I feel like it was just a guideline for auditions and they never planned on having a drummer that plays the part identically for the rest of their career. Regardless, I am glad that MM is letting loose now because that fill in question is fucking monstrous and uniquely Mangini. BTW, if you didn't see his FB post, he link in question is below, complete with commentary from whoever the dude is that posted it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeHLDfrF3Uo
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Well, I think it's a matter of if the essence of the songs is there. I mean, drummers like Peter Wildoer, for example, he's so aggressive that his style of drumming would fill every DT song with balls to the wall bombast. Or at least that's how he sounded on the audition. He's a great drummer, but I could hear at the audition, that in spite of playing the parts correctly, his style just didn't fit DT at all.
With what MM is doing with the fills, I don't think it's any different than what MP used to do when he'd improvise his fills. The essence of the song was still there, and it still felt right, but at the same time, it was just something a little more indulgent and impressive, which is what people generally want out of prog.
Plus at the beginning, I think they were more concerned with making sure the new drummer, whoever it would end up being, wouldn't alienate the fans. So I'm sure that state of mind was always meant to be temporary, just like ADTOE being made for the purpose of proving that they're still the "same band" and will put out the "same kind of music". At this point, I think MM has gotten as much acceptance from the DT fanbase as he we could possibly expect, so there's no pressure to prove that he's a right drummer for Dream Theater, anymore. People either agree that he is, or they want Portnoy back, and I doubt that's gonna change.
Not to mention, like he said, this is from the general fan consensus.
I think it is a bit unfair to say that it was a "policy" of theirs. I feel like it was just a guideline for auditions and they never planned on having a drummer that plays the part identically for the rest of their career.
Agreed, good points. I think this marks the real "Mangini unleashed" moment. Maybe next time he'll also get more say in the studio as well.
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All this talk about the snare in DT12 made me really focus on it now, and man, it sounds like an electronic drum kit, kinda like the I&W snare (was that the "vision"?).
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All this talk about the snare in DT12 made me really focus on it now, and man, it sounds like an electronic drum kit, kinda like the I&W snare (was that the "vision"?).
When I first listened to DT12, this was exactly what I thought. The I&W snare is frowned upon a lot, but it definitely has a lot of character, it's unique and unmistakable. When I hear it, it instantly takes me back to the feeling I had when I heard the album for the very first time. This doesn't happen with most albums. For better or worse, they probably wanted to go for a similar uniqueness with DT12. It works for me, I like how it sounds.
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All this talk about the snare in DT12 made me really focus on it now, and man, it sounds like an electronic drum kit, kinda like the I&W snare (was that the "vision"?).
When I first listened to DT12, this was exactly what I thought. The I&W snare is frowned upon a lot, but it definitely has a lot of character, it's unique and unmistakable. When I hear it, it instantly takes me back to the feeling I had when I heard the album for the very first time. This doesn't happen with most albums. For better or worse, they probably wanted to go for a similar uniqueness with DT12. It works for me, I like how it sounds.
This is exactly how I felt about the drum sound. It is unique and puts it distinctly in the time period it was recorded. Will it sound dated in 5-10 years? I think it is very likely much in the same way I&W sounds dated.
I find it a bit ironic that there are people that love the sound of I&W but hate what they did with DT12 because I really do think it was the same mentality that lead them to do that. I can understand people not liking the sound of DT12 and liking the sound of I&W but to trash them for trying something along the same lines as the sound on I&W is a bit hypocritical. Hope that makes sense.
It just so happens that the DT12 sound works for me but I was also very much in the moment when I listened to it. If I first heard DT12 8 years from now like how I heard I&W 8 years from the time it was recorded, I do not know if I would be so forgiving of a very unique and in your face way of featuring the drums.
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I find it a bit ironic that there are people that love the sound of I&W but hate what they did with DT12 because I really do think it was the same mentality that lead them to do that. I can understand people not liking the sound of DT12 and liking the sound of I&W but to trash them for trying something along the same lines as the sound on I&W is a bit hypocritical.
I don't see that being hypocritical at all. It's called "putting music into context". I&W is unmistakably a product of the early 90s, and because of that, while I still smirk at the choice of triggering the snare on I&W, I also know that that's what a lot of acts did in those days.
This is 2014 though, and flattening your snare into a pancake is an unfortunate thing to do, as is compressing everything else on your record.
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This is 2014 though, and flattening your snare into a pancake is an unfortunate thing to do, as is compressing everything else on your record.
Which is also a product of these times.
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A product of the 2000s. Vapor Trails and Death Magnetic are 12 and 6 years ago respectively, and they created a ton of backlash. Rush even had Vapor Trails remastered. That DT would release another over-compressed album of theirs (SC being the first) is kinda unfathomable to me.
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Neither of them are that bad (SC and DT12 I mean). They're compressed, but the way they're composed, they're still very listenable.
Although I can't help but wonder if DT12 was compressed specifically so that they could try and sell the HD tracks version to those who give a damn.
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All this talk about the snare in DT12 made me really focus on it now, and man, it sounds like an electronic drum kit, kinda like the I&W snare (was that the "vision"?).
When I first listened to DT12, this was exactly what I thought. The I&W snare is frowned upon a lot, but it definitely has a lot of character, it's unique and unmistakable. When I hear it, it instantly takes me back to the feeling I had when I heard the album for the very first time. This doesn't happen with most albums. For better or worse, they probably wanted to go for a similar uniqueness with DT12. It works for me, I like how it sounds.
This is exactly how I felt about the drum sound. It is unique and puts it distinctly in the time period it was recorded. Will it sound dated in 5-10 years? I think it is very likely much in the same way I&W sounds dated.
I find it a bit ironic that there are people that love the sound of I&W but hate what they did with DT12 because I really do think it was the same mentality that lead them to do that. I can understand people not liking the sound of DT12 and liking the sound of I&W but to trash them for trying something along the same lines as the sound on I&W is a bit hypocritical. Hope that makes sense.
It just so happens that the DT12 sound works for me but I was also very much in the moment when I listened to it. If I first heard DT12 8 years from now like how I heard I&W 8 years from the time it was recorded, I do not know if I would be so forgiving of a very unique and in your face way of featuring the drums.
There's a key difference for me, though. On Images and Words, every single instrument has its own sonic space. JP isn't overbearing. JM is distinct, but not too loud. Kevin is buried in some places, but those seem to be creative choices that were honestly for the better. Then you have MP's kit, cutting through with a really intense trigger that makes it sound like Mike is hitting the drums as hard as he can with each hit. It gives each of the songs a really nice "heavy" groove, actually adds (to use an MPism) "balls" to the album. It was a style choice.
On DT12, it doesn't sound like that. The recording is completely, with John Petrucci taking up the majority of the sonic space. The snare is triggered again, not to give the sound extra oomph but because it sounds like it needs to be to have any distinction in the mess of a guitar-drowned mix that has been produced.
This cues a huge problem for me with all DT records since Six Degrees - the guitars are too damn loud. I read the section in Lifting Shadows where Shirley says that he had increased the volume of the guitars by half a decibel to appease John. Frankly, that's an issue for me. I do not think JP is an expert when it comes to self-producing (who really is?) and DT would be a lot better for me if JP would make his guitars even 1 or 2 dbs less loud.
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There's a key difference for me, though. On Images and Words, every single instrument has its own sonic space. JP isn't overbearing. JM is distinct, but not too loud. Kevin is buried in some places, but those seem to be creative choices that were honestly for the better. Then you have MP's kit, cutting through with a really intense trigger that makes it sound like Mike is hitting the drums as hard as he can with each hit. It gives each of the songs a really nice "heavy" groove, actually adds (to use an MPism) "balls" to the album. It was a style choice.
On DT12, it doesn't sound like that. The recording is completely, with John Petrucci taking up the majority of the sonic space. The snare is triggered again, not to give the sound extra oomph but because it sounds like it needs to be to have any distinction in the mess of a guitar-drowned mix that has been produced.
This cues a huge problem for me with all DT records since Six Degrees - the guitars are too damn loud. I read the section in Lifting Shadows where Shirley says that he had increased the volume of the guitars by half a decibel to appease John. Frankly, that's an issue for me. I do not think JP is an expert when it comes to self-producing (who really is?) and DT would be a lot better for me if JP would make his guitars even 1 or 2 dbs less loud.
If you ask me, I'd say the guitars on I&W are too quiet. Of course they're not overbearing, they're underbearing. And the snare sound isn't good. I mean, it just sounds unnatural, and doesn't match the rest of the drum sound at all, if you ask me. That's probably why MP had a problem with it, and not the triggered snare on LATM.
Not saying that DT's sound these days doesn't have room for improvements, but I&W was far from perfect.
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Neither of them are that bad (SC and DT12 I mean). They're compressed, but the way they're composed, they're still very listenable.
Although I can't help but wonder if DT12 was compressed specifically so that they could try and sell the HD tracks version to those who give a damn.
In my opinion, the CD version of DT12 is almost unlistenable. I think SC and BC&SL are also very compressed, but they're still listenable.
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I really don't see how the guitars could be too low for you, but whatever.
Honestly, I think Prater was a little creative with that whole job. If you listen closely to MP's parts on Images, he actually overplays quite a bit, and his parts are pretty distracting. However, the way the drums are triggered adds emphasis to the meat of Portnoy's playing, the kick and snare, and diminishes the more showy parts. Same with Kevin Moore. There are plenty of times on the album where Moore disappears from the mix. If you listen to live versions of those songs, it's pretty apparent why. Overall I find the whole job to be pretty good. As producer, Prater seems to have used both overt and more subtle ways of reeling in a very hot band. Had he not been there, Images and Words may have turned into too much of a talent circus for me to enjoy.
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I really don't see how the guitars could be too low for you, but whatever.
Well, I guess more like the keyboards are too loud. I don't know where you think he disappears from the mix, but most of the time the keyboards overshadow the guitar so much that it takes the "Metal" away from Progressive Metal.
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I don't agree at all. There was a long time when DT were really on the borderline between prog and metal, most metal fans I knew considered them to be more prog. Since Train of Thought the metal has obviously become the dominant portion. Oh well.
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I've got a weird relationship with the drums on DT12. I think the record is super over-compressed, but yet everything sounds OK enough in total... at the same time, the drums are a little distracting and don't sound so great if I focus on them. I'm a big believer that a good, natural sounding drum track can really complement a metal record (the first example that comes to mind for me is Fear of a Blank Planet), and I would have preferred that to whatever it is that we got with DT12. That's just my personal preference, but hearing that it gave so much trouble to MM in the studio (for no real reason, I might add) is pretty disheartening too.
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Behind the Veil at 2:57 has like one or two that got through, true. But note also that by the second time the figure comes around, those hits get compressed again to sound like main hits. That's what he is struggling with.
And, it's not exactly that we're "perpetuating" something here. He said it himself, can't be clearer than that right really.
He said that the snare sound made him put ghost notes off the snare to the rides and hi-hats, which you interpreted like a Sith (dealing in absolutes), saying that he was "robbed of the ability to play ghost notes", which obviously isn't the case, as there are lots of snare ghost notes on DT12. That's what's being falsely perpetuated. Moving some ghost notes to cymbals ≠ not being able to play them on the snare.
The way I hear it from the record is that the ghost notes on the snare indeed does not sound too good. It sounds too...fat? I can't find the word to describe it.
Moving on, MM posted this on FB:
An online helper of mine brought this clip to me in light of my wondering how far I should take the older DT drum tracks as different than the recorded versions. I think by now, that 97+% of fans seeing us know that I have respect for the original parts and I can now perform them similarly, but not exact to the record. The overwhelming amount of positive comments have helped me understand what the people that matter think.This is nice because THIS is where I'm took the pre-ADTOE songs after "...4th Wall" was shot and where I am going from now on. (...) So, No more just copying the recording fills. I felt like that what the right thing to do when playing an older tune for people live. From now on, it is pedal to the METAL.
We've seen this tendency for quite a while, but it's still contradictory to what JP & JR said in the drummer auditions video ("we need the old songs to sound a certain way"), often criticizing drummers who interpreted MP's parts too much. I'm glad they now officially changed this policy and MM can finally have his way.
The key is in your own statement. Some of the drummers interpreted MP's parts TOO MUCH. MM, while doing his pedal to the metal thing nowadays, still hews closely to the essence of the song. His performance in The Shattered Fortress, for example, is amazing but retains the spirit. It's quite different from what we heard in the drummer auditions in the case of Virigil Donati, for example, who was amazing but indeed changed the feel of the song because he is doing his own thing.
Now about the compression...I have two versions of DT in my phone - HDTracks flac and the highliy compressed mp3s. HD Tracks is really way better, but when I am listening to my mobile device while commuting or walking, the quality shines only when I use my noise-canceling in-ear phones. When I use my normal earphones, which is what I normally use when I am outside so that I could hear if a car is about to run me over, the mp3s do sound better. I think that is the dillema DT, and maybe John Petrucci in particular as the producer, is facing. More and more people actually listen through these mobile devices in environments that are not actually friendly to hi-quality uncompressed formats because they sound really weak when external noise bleeds through.
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Now about the compression...I have two versions of DT in my phone - HDTracks flac and the highliy compressed mp3s. HD Tracks is really way better, but when I am listening to my mobile device while commuting or walking, the quality shines only when I use my noise-canceling in-ear phones. When I use my normal earphones, which is what I normally use when I am outside so that I could hear if a car is about to run me over, the mp3s do sound better. I think that is the dillema DT, and maybe John Petrucci in particular as the producer, is facing. More and more people actually listen through these mobile devices in environments that are not actually friendly to hi-quality uncompressed formats because they sound really weak when external noise bleeds through.
Exactly, they sort of have to cater to the lowest common denominator as far as equipment goes. The average person listens through a fairly basic stereo, computer speaker, or earbuds. Possibly while they're doing other things. Sometimes even through youtube or other streamed sources which have added their own compression that wouldn't cater well to the higher quality tracks. As great as it is, sometimes it's hard to find time to just sit down and take in the whole music experience which is when you truly appreciate the overall soundscape and this is when you don't appreciate the overcompression used often today. It's tricky because it's a bit unfair to eliminate one for the other if there's valid reasons for both. I think the best way is to have both options available, but maybe not be so extortionate about it.
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I guess they shifted their target demographic, but back in the day DT's music was *specifically* not meant for casual listening.
Also, they simply should have added the HDtracks as an optional download to the regular CD. As it is, you not only have to pay again, but even more than the regular album.
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I don't agree at all. There was a long time when DT were really on the borderline between prog and metal, most metal fans I knew considered them to be more prog. Since Train of Thought the metal has obviously become the dominant portion. Oh well.
They were more prog, but I'd say I&W was almost TOO prog at parts. And yeah, I'd say The Glass Prison was their first foray into the "balls and chunk" realm that they never really got back from in subsequent, for better or for worse. But Awake, FII and SFAM still had some really strong riffs, and most of them weren't buried in keyboard effects the way a lot of I&W stuff was. It's good, don't get me wrong, thank God KM used some great keyboard sounds on it, because if he used the kind of patches on I&W that he used on Awake, I&W would have sounded like complete ass. Bullet dodged, I guess.
As far as I&W goes, while the overcompression and the master of the 2007 remixes from the Greatest Hit compilation weren't the best, when it comes to the mix, I think it was much better, with the guitar a bit more up front. But that's just my preference.
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I guess they shifted their target demographic, but back in the day DT's music was *specifically* not meant for casual listening.
They have always made an effort to have songs that were more appealing to the masses (Status Seeker, Pull Me Under) and there were some where they made no compromise to how they would write (Learning to Live and many others) but I don't think they ever said, "This better not appeal to the casual listener!"
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Well, as said, the CD (which I view as "the release" of the album) is obviously compressed to the level it is for the purpose of being listened to in loud environments and cheap headphones. That has always been the very point of the loudness war, so that you can listen to it (and hear everything) in your car or that USB speaker at work.
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Well, as said, the CD (which I view as "the release" of the album) is obviously compressed to the level it is for the purpose of being listened to in loud environments and cheap headphones. That has always been the very point of the loudness war, so that you can listen to it (and hear everything) in your car or that USB speaker at work.
It's a shame music is mastered for the lowest common denominator these days, at the expense of sounding good. More complex niche music such as DT's shouldn't be treated like that.
The drum sound of DT12 is better on the HDTracks version (the snare doesn't sound too bad on that version), but on the album, you can't make out anything. BTFW is the only DT/MM drum mix that I've considered even good (and I think it's great). If you're going to unleash the beast, let us hear it!
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As far as I&W goes, while the overcompression and the master of the 2007 remixes from the Greatest Hit compilation weren't the best, when it comes to the mix, I think it was much better, with the guitar a bit more up front. But that's just my preference.
That's exactly why I hated it. The guitar was so overbearing, I couldn't even hear the organ come in at the "I think it's time for a chaaaaiiiaaangeeeeeee" part. Man, that was disappointing. It's definitely a matter of taste, but good keyboards in rock/metal are so few and far between, that it really pisses me off when they bury them underneath a plethora of guitar layers. Keyboards are a huge part of the DT sound and have a quintessential role in making the band sound unique, so more keys please and bring 'em up in the mix.
Out of curiosity, did you like the guitar-dominated mix of Live at Luna Park?
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Well, as said, the CD (which I view as "the release" of the album) is obviously compressed to the level it is for the purpose of being listened to in loud environments and cheap headphones. That has always been the very point of the loudness war, so that you can listen to it (and hear everything) in your car or that USB speaker at work.
It's a shame music is mastered for the lowest common denominator these days, at the expense of sounding good. More complex niche music such as DT's shouldn't be treated like that.
The drum sound of DT12 is better on the HDTracks version (the snare doesn't sound too bad on that version), but on the album, you can't make out anything. BTFW is the only DT/MM drum mix that I've considered even good (and I think it's great). If you're going to unleash the beast, let us hear it!
Same here. BTFW has the best DT drum sound in a loooong time.
The Greatest Hit album, I don't think they improved anything. As said, the guitars are overbearing, and the rerecorded drums sound out of place.
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The Greatest Hit album, I don't think they improved anything. As said, the guitars are overbearing, and the rerecorded drums sound out of place.
John Petrucci puts the "bear" in "overbearing guitars"! :lol
Seriously though, I don't think they're overbearing. I think they're just right. Like I said, on I&W, I always felt like they were buried underneath the keyboards, and a lot of the riffs got lost behind the lead keyboard melodies.
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the rerecorded drums sound out of place.
AFAIK, they weren't re-recorded, they just replaced the kick and snare samples. The toms and cymbals sound the same.
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And that's probably why it sounds out of place :lol
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And that's probably why it sounds out of place :lol
Yeah, those remasters sound like crap.
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I also really don't like the doubling they did with James' vocals. It sounds out of tune.
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Because of this interview, I listened to James Labrie's Elements of Persuasion.
I want that Mike Mangini drum sound. Damn, they should redo ADTOE and DT with that drum sound!
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Because of this interview, I listened to James Labrie's Elements of Persuasion.
I want that Mike Mangini drum sound. Damn, they should redo ADTOE and DT with that drum sound!
I agree on this one and I also like MM's playing on that album very much.
B.Lee
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Because of this interview, I listened to James Labrie's Elements of Persuasion.
I want that Mike Mangini drum sound. Damn, they should redo ADTOE and DT with that drum sound!
While I love that drum sound I don't know if it would work perfectly for DT. EoP is so in your face that it needs loud punchy drums but it would steal focus from the more subtle things that Dt does.
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All the instruments sound a million times better on EOP than DT12, but unfortunately the mastering on EOP is even more brickwalled, as there's noticable clipping in some songs. Other than that, I'd be happy if the drum (and guitar) sound on the next DT album was at least as good as on that record.
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I dunno, I've always thought the guitar tone on Elements of Persuasion was a little off. It's not horrible, it sort of has a unique style that's appropriate for the type of music, but I wouldn't want JP to use a tone like that. It's sort of got that high/mid contour, twangy chunky metal tone, but still comes off a bit thin. (It gets ridiculous trying to describe tonal qualities but hopefully that slightly made sense). :xbones
Even though it's probably less unique and more generic, I much prefer the tone Marco Sfogli uses on Static Impulse/Impermanent Resonance. YET, I still prefer many of the compositions on EoP. Can't win haha.
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Because of this interview, I listened to James Labrie's Elements of Persuasion.
I want that Mike Mangini drum sound. Damn, they should redo ADTOE and DT with that drum sound!
While I love that drum sound I don't know if it would work perfectly for DT. EoP is so in your face that it needs loud punchy drums but it would steal focus from the more subtle things that Dt does.
I actually just want the clarity of the drum sound in that album, especially the cymbals.