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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: chaossystem on November 24, 2014, 02:04:06 PM

Title: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: chaossystem on November 24, 2014, 02:04:06 PM
I don't really expect any of these songs to be among anyone's all-time favorites, or on a "best-of" list, but I knew that if I didn't give everyone an opportunity to vote on these songs, someone would inevitably say something like "Why didn't you?"
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: The Letter M on November 24, 2014, 02:26:56 PM
The Queen songs, although Stargazer and Odyssey are both amazing, too.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Orbert on November 24, 2014, 02:31:54 PM
I had to vote for the Queen medley also.  I was really, really impressed with James' vocals on those tracks.  I really didn't think he could do it.  But they're all great.  I listen to the covers more than the DT songs.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 24, 2014, 02:49:57 PM
I don't really expect any of these songs to be among anyone's all-time favorites, or on a "best-of" list, but I knew that if I didn't give everyone an opportunity to vote on these songs, someone would inevitably say something like "Why didn't you?"
I don't think anyone would have said that.  They are just covers.

But I went with the Queen medley as well, although I like all of them a lot other than the Iron Maiden song.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Tim van Duijn on November 24, 2014, 03:00:20 PM
Yeah absolutely. The Queen medley does it for me. And James Labrie is doing an AWESOME job on that one too.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Tim van Duijn on November 24, 2014, 03:02:34 PM
I'd go for The Shattered Fortress because it's so complete to me. And it's also the concluding part of the 12 step suite. The whole 12 step suite is filled with awesome lyrics. Normally i would say The Count Of Tuscany (hell, that piece made me cry when i saw DT for the first time, also first concert i ever attended) but The Shattered Fortress feels more complete.

A Nightmare to Remember is a song i don't listen to that often, i might spin that one a few times this week and maybe it changes.

Sorry, wrong topic..
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on November 24, 2014, 03:03:03 PM
You can edit your posts.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Tim van Duijn on November 24, 2014, 03:03:34 PM
You can edit your posts.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Dublagent66 on November 24, 2014, 03:24:08 PM
I only listened to the covers once and can't recall what I liked the best.  The chances of me going back to listen to those covers just for the sake of this poll is highly unlikely.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Zook on November 24, 2014, 03:26:39 PM
The only ones I care about are To Tame A Land and Stargazer.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: krands85 on November 24, 2014, 04:41:59 PM
Stargazer was always my favourite, though I haven't listened to these covers for ages.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Skeever on November 24, 2014, 04:45:16 PM
Queen medley is the closest that any of 'em come to being as good as the originals.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: wolfking on November 24, 2014, 05:03:22 PM
Stargazer.

TTAL is awful.  They should have re-recorded that at the same time.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Rodni Demental on November 24, 2014, 05:13:30 PM
They'll all great. I honestly wish DT would do more polished studio covers like this but too bad I'm probably in a minority that would want more of this. The other 'uncovered' live releases were also fantastic but we obviously won't be getting more of those unless the band actually played covers which they're not really interested in doing at the moment.

Anyway I picked To Tame A Land. But could have easily picked Queen Medley or Rainbow. Even the instrumentals have grown on me and are quite fun once you they become more familiar.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 24, 2014, 07:56:40 PM
The Queen one was great, but I went with Stargazer, because I just prefer it to listen to. Both of those are pretty big shoes to fill vocally too, Mercury and Dio, and JLB does admirably on both.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: CharlesPL on November 24, 2014, 08:09:44 PM
Odyssey- Today's selection.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on November 24, 2014, 11:49:36 PM
The Queen Medley, although Stargazer is awesome too.
I have to say though, Take Your Fingers from My Hair is one of JLB's finest performances ever.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: jjrock88 on November 25, 2014, 12:14:40 AM
Stargazer
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: chaossystem on November 25, 2014, 12:09:36 PM
Didn't think so many people would agree with me on that one!
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: The Nameless One on November 29, 2014, 07:31:41 PM
Can't pick one, Stargazer and To Tame A Land both stand out for me.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TAC on December 01, 2014, 01:28:23 PM
TTAL is awful.  They should have re-recorded that at the same time.

I wouldn't call it awful, but I agree. If it had been recorded in the Black Clouds sesions, it would've been far more powerful. Especially the vocals.


James' vocals steal the show on this covers disc. It is living proof of how underutilized he is in DT. His performance on the Queen medley, Stargazer, and TYFFMH is nothing short of extraordinary.

Oh, and Lark Toungues is a fuc#ing waste of disc space. With apologies to the KC fans here, WTF is the point of that?
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Rodni Demental on December 01, 2014, 05:55:43 PM
I have to say though, Take Your Fingers from My Hair is one of JLB's finest performances ever.

Fine permanence, I'll give you that. Very impressive aswell actually but I must admit, it takes some getting used to hearing James screech at the top of his lung "baybeh, baybeh,<enter MP with fallseto> baybeh, baybeh.. baybeh". Yeah.  :lol
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: JayOctavarium on December 01, 2014, 07:00:30 PM
Stargazer or Queen.


Queen. By a Freddie Mercury Mustache Hair
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 01, 2014, 07:09:25 PM
I have to say though, Take Your Fingers from My Hair is one of JLB's finest performances ever.

Fine permanence, I'll give you that. Very impressive aswell actually but I must admit, it takes some getting used to hearing James screech at the top of his lung "baybeh, baybeh,<enter MP with fallseto> baybeh, baybeh.. baybeh". Yeah.  :lol

Yeah, but even MP's backup vocals on those covers were more enjoyable than what we got on most of the main album.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 02, 2014, 06:56:56 AM
Oh, and Lark Toungues is a fuc#ing waste of disc space. With apologies to the KC fans here, WTF is the point of that?
Dammit TAC.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Nekov on December 02, 2014, 07:02:07 AM
Oh, and Lark Toungues is a fuc#ing waste of disc space. With apologies to the KC fans here, WTF is the point of that?

WTF? That's an amazing cover, I love every bit of it and I usually hate covers.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 02, 2014, 08:07:19 AM
Oh, and Lark Toungues is a fuc#ing waste of disc space. With apologies to the KC fans here, WTF is the point of that?

WTF? That's an amazing cover, I love every bit of it and I usually hate covers.

The cover is great. I think he's just saying he hates the song itself.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Stadler on December 02, 2014, 09:40:37 AM
I don't really expect any of these songs to be among anyone's all-time favorites, or on a "best-of" list, but I knew that if I didn't give everyone an opportunity to vote on these songs, someone would inevitably say something like "Why didn't you?"

Why wouldn't you expect that?  I listen to the covers disk as much if not more than the main album.  I like the main album a fair amount (not one of the people who dislike the last two MP albums; I listen to them a lot), but the covers album is EXCELLENT and IS among my all-time favorites. 
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: rumborak on December 02, 2014, 03:34:10 PM
Definitely the Queen medley.

Overall though, I wish DT didn't treat covers as an exercise in mimicry, but rather in interpretation.
Like, the Queen medley is incredibly well done, but when I feel like listening to the song I'd rather listen to the original, since there really is no compositional difference between the two.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 02, 2014, 03:42:05 PM
Definitely the Queen medley.

Overall though, I wish DT didn't treat covers as an exercise in mimicry, but rather in interpretation.
Like, the Queen medley is incredibly well done, but when I feel like listening to the song I'd rather listen to the original, since there really is no compositional difference between the two.

While I agree with you, and I think it'd be awesome if they had interpreted their covers a little differently, the way they did with Gangland on the Number of the Beast CD, when it comes to their covers, even though there are no compositional differences to the vast majority of them, in most cases, I'd still rather listen to the DT versions. Especially Darkside of the Moon, the original album does very little for me. At least DT's has JLB on vocals.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: rumborak on December 02, 2014, 03:54:19 PM
Really? The fact that you hear the rendition of the people who created the song has no additional value to you?
Like, let's assume for a second that JLB's vocals were superior to Freddie's (which they really aren't). Even in that case, it would have to be a LOT better to counteract the fact that they're just mimicking somebody else's work.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 02, 2014, 04:13:49 PM
Really? The fact that you hear the rendition of the people who created the song has no additional value to you?
Like, let's assume for a second that JLB's vocals were superior to Freddie's (which they really aren't). Even in that case, it would have to be a LOT better to counteract the fact that they're just mimicking somebody else's work.

Well, DT's version of the Queen medley does have a bit of a heavier edge to it. Maybe it's the mix, of the instruments, or the recording equipment, whatever it is, it's still very enjoyable, and when I'm in the mood for something with a little more oomph to it, I definitely prefer DT's version of that particular song. Same with Stargazer.

But honestly, with Pink Floyd, I think Roger Waters is one of the most unremarkable singers ever. Like, he's not bad, he's not good, there are some songs where he has a bit of a pretty cool swagger to his style, but all in all, I generally find him pretty boring to listen to. Floyd's instrumentation were pretty great, though. But even then, I don't think Dark Side is that amazing of an album. The Wall IMO is far superior. There are still some interesting moments on Dark Side, but between not being my favorite album, and Roger Waters not being a vocalist I'm all that fond of, given the choice, I enjoy DT's version of Dark Side a lot more.

With Number of the Beast, it really depends on my mood. But sometimes I simply feel like listening to JLB doing Maiden. Or Deep Purple, or whatever else we got on the Uncovered CD. I'm not that big of a fan of Ozzy either (I like him, but not that much), so in most cases, I'd rather listen to DT's version of Diary of a Madman.

When it comes to Master of Puppets though... Yeah, no... James just can't do any kind of justice to James Hetfield's particular style, haha.  :lol Or at least, what we ended up getting on the official bootleg, he didn't pull it off very well at all. But I'm not a very big fan of Metallica, or their Master of Puppets album, so I rare listen to either version.

But anyway, yeah, in most cases, I really enjoy their covers, but yeah, it would be cool if they dould have reorchestrated them a little. The problem is that DT is a very versatile band when it comes to styles, so doing the covers in their original style, it's not like I can even say, "Well, that's not like DT do play that soft, or that heavy," because they do traverse both ends of the spectrum, and do acoustic stuff, and piano ballads, etc. So it's not like having a band with a very narrow and particular sound like Disturbed doing their style's versions of these songs.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on December 02, 2014, 04:28:11 PM
Really? The fact that you hear the rendition of the people who created the song has no additional value to you?
Like, let's assume for a second that JLB's vocals were superior to Freddie's (which they really aren't). Even in that case, it would have to be a LOT better to counteract the fact that they're just mimicking somebody else's work.

I don't see why. I'm not going to claim DT created the song, but if I like their version better, why should I feel any obligation to listen to a version I consider inferior?

Though as I said before I'm not a fan of DT's covers, this is just a general comment.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Rodni Demental on December 02, 2014, 04:37:55 PM
To Tame a Land might not be the most popular track here, but who's heard the original? It's a bit of a drunken mess if you ask me, but the DT version is tight and very coherent. I think that's what's strong about all the the covers is that they're well played, even if mostly replicating the original work, I'd say they play a lot of the material (but not always) better than the originals, and the band as a unit has got a much tighter hold on the timing.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: cramx3 on December 02, 2014, 04:39:24 PM
I chose Stargazer because JLB is on fire there, but really they are all fantastic and well done.  I could have voted other ways, but Stargazer I think edges them.

To Tame a Land might not be the most popular track here, but who's heard the original? It's a bit of a drunken mess if you ask me, but the DT version is tight and very coherent.

Wut? The IM version is amazing, not sure how its a drunken mess.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 02, 2014, 04:45:11 PM
To Tame a Land might not be the most popular track here, but who's heard the original? It's a bit of a drunken mess if you ask me, but the DT version is tight and very coherent. I think that's what's strong about all the the covers is that they're well played, even if mostly replicating the original work, I'd say they play a lot of the material (but not always) better than the originals, and the band as a unit has got a much tighter hold on the timing.

Well, DT's version was from a tribute to the Piece of Mind album, right? I thought it was weird that they chose to cover that particular song, but when I found out that's where it's from, I was kinda pissed because like, DT are some of the best musicians in the genre, and they're huge Maiden fans, and giving them that particular song, I really felt like they got the short end of the stick there. They really should've been given... Hell, they should've gotten The Trooper! But yeah, considering what they had to work with, their version is pretty excellent.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Rodni Demental on December 02, 2014, 04:49:40 PM
Wut? The IM version is amazing, not sure how its a drunken mess.

Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit by calling it a drunken mess xD. And I like the Iron Maiden version too, I guess I was trying to make a point about some of the differences because the guitar for example, isn't as tightly in sync with the drums in certain sections, like the chugs. You will surely know what I mean about the coherence of the performance if you listened to the IM version after the DT version, just doesn't feel as tight and polished as the DT version. Which is a quality I believe DT bring to their covers, a fine coat of polish. Of course some thing's don't need any extra polish and are fine the way they are but that's a generalised reason for the appeal of some DT covers imo.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: cramx3 on December 02, 2014, 04:54:53 PM
Wut? The IM version is amazing, not sure how its a drunken mess.

Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit by calling it a drunken mess xD. And I like the Iron Maiden version too, I guess I was trying to make a point about some of the differences because the guitar for example, isn't as tightly in sync with the drums in certain sections, like the chugs. You will surely know what I mean about the coherence of the performance if you listened to the IM version after the DT version, just doesn't feel as tight and polished as the DT version. Which is a quality I believe DT bring to their covers, a fine coat of polish. Of course some thing's don't need any extra polish and are fine the way they are but that's a generalised reason for the appeal of some DT covers imo.

Oh ok, that makes more sense and I can see what you are saying there.  DT definitely do a "tighter" version of it, I can agree with that.

Well, DT's version was from a tribute to the Piece of Mind album, right? I thought it was weird that they chose to cover that particular song, but when I found out that's where it's from, I was kinda pissed because like, DT are some of the best musicians in the genre, and they're huge Maiden fans, and giving them that particular song, I really felt like they got the short end of the stick there. They really should've been given... Hell, they should've gotten The Trooper! But yeah, considering what they had to work with, their version is pretty excellent.

Why is it weird they chose that song? To me that is a song that is totally an IM song that DT would cover as it is a more progressive IM song.  Also should note that DT covered all of TNotB and also on one of the bootlegs they do the Trooper with Bruce singing so they've done a bunch of IM songs already.  I thought it was a great choice, although of course they could have done other songs particularly some of the newer material that would have also been great choices.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 02, 2014, 05:01:24 PM
Why is it weird they chose that song? To me that is a song that is totally an IM song that DT would cover as it is a more progressive IM song.  Also should note that DT covered all of TNotB and also on one of the bootlegs they do the Trooper with Bruce singing so they've done a bunch of IM songs already.  I thought it was a great choice, although of course they could have done other songs particularly some of the newer material that would have also been great choices.

I meant it was weird that they chose that particular Maiden song. It's not a really popular Maiden song, the subject matter is a little niche, I mean, if Maiden likes Dune, it's understandable, but for DT to cover the Dune song, it was kind of weird. And like I said, at the time I figured why wouldn't they do something from their later albums like you said, since I didn't know it was from a tribute to that whole album, so obviously somebody would've had to do it. Still, shame that they were stuck with that particular song though. It's certainly not the best or most memorable song even on that particular album.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: cramx3 on December 02, 2014, 05:22:55 PM
But you dont think that song fits DT?  Also, the tribute album was not for Peace of Mind, it was from the Maiden Heaven CD that was released with a special Kerrang magazine.  https://www.amazon.co.uk/KERRANG-PRESENTS-MAIDEN-HEAVEN-TRIBUTE/dp/B00BGEANEM (https://www.amazon.co.uk/KERRANG-PRESENTS-MAIDEN-HEAVEN-TRIBUTE/dp/B00BGEANEM) I bought the magazine to get the CD because I am a huge IM fan and when I saw DT was on it, I had to get it.  Also, one band did Brave New World so new material was not off the list, but I dont think it was a bad choice at all for DT.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Nearmyth on December 02, 2014, 05:29:25 PM
Queen medley by far! Followed by Odyssey, super cool stuff
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 02, 2014, 05:30:49 PM
But you dont think that song fits DT?  Also, the tribute album was not for Peace of Mind, it was from the Maiden Heaven CD that was released with a special Kerrang magazine.  https://www.amazon.co.uk/KERRANG-PRESENTS-MAIDEN-HEAVEN-TRIBUTE/dp/B00BGEANEM (https://www.amazon.co.uk/KERRANG-PRESENTS-MAIDEN-HEAVEN-TRIBUTE/dp/B00BGEANEM) I bought the magazine to get the CD because I am a huge IM fan and when I saw DT was on it, I had to get it.  Also, one band did Brave New World so new material was not off the list, but I dont think it was a bad choice at all for DT.

Huh. Okay, my mistake. But there you go, then. Personally, I would've loved to see them do another song. Yeah, TTAL kind of fits them, stylistically, but in terms of like I said the subject matter, and the fact that it's not even that good of a song by Maiden standards, it would've been great to see them do something better. I mean, if you ask me, most of the material from Seventh Son would've been great and very fitting for Maiden. Moonchild would've been an amazing cover to do.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: cramx3 on December 02, 2014, 06:31:09 PM
Well I could name a bunch of other songs Id love to see them cover, specifically from A Matter of Life and Death.  Regardless, I love how JM sounds on TTaL.  He is actually very audible as fitting for doing a Steve Harris song. 
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 02, 2014, 06:45:42 PM
Right, but I'd be hard pressed to find a person, even among Maiden fans who if you'd have asked, "Which song should DT cover?" their first off the top of their head answer would be, "To Tame a Land".
But yeah, I was just saying, considering the choice of song, they did a pretty great job at it. But then, that can be said for every other cover on this particular CD as well.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Stadler on December 03, 2014, 11:56:47 AM
Really? The fact that you hear the rendition of the people who created the song has no additional value to you?
Like, let's assume for a second that JLB's vocals were superior to Freddie's (which they really aren't). Even in that case, it would have to be a LOT better to counteract the fact that they're just mimicking somebody else's work.

I know you're not talking to me with that question, but it has almost NONE additional value to me.  I like the version that I like and it rarely is based only on "who did it first".  I like Metallica's "Stone Cold Crazy" better, and it isn't that different.   In fact, now that I am thinking about it, the more different the interpretation (i.e. the cover of "Land of Confusion" by Disturbed) the less I like it. 
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 03, 2014, 12:58:16 PM
In fact, now that I am thinking about it, the more different the interpretation (i.e. the cover of "Land of Confusion" by Disturbed) the less I like it.

It also depends on how you feel about the original band, I suppose.

I mean, I don't like U2 as a band very much at all. But hearing U2 covers by bands such as Disturbed and Fear Factory, where they changed the composition to their own, more aggressive styles, I actually like their interpretations quite a bit, whereas hearing the originals does absolutely nothing for me.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: chaossystem on December 04, 2014, 03:40:51 PM
My favorite on this disc is far and away "Stargazer."
I don't (and didn't) even have to think about it.
I've always loved that song, and loved hearing what the band did with it.

I like the ORIGINAL (Maiden) version of "To Tame a Land," but I'm more less forced to agree with those of you who have "bashed" it.
I can LISTEN to it, but it they changed it TOO much for it to ever be even close to sounding as good as the original.
ANOTHER problem is that there are some songs that James's voice just isn't RIGHT for, and I'm afraid that this is ONE of them.

To be honest with you I'm not at all familiar with the rest of the tracks on this disc, and I'm not the biggest fan of King Crimson or Queen, either. But I DO like a FEW of Queen's songs, and K.C.'s FIRST album.
Having said that, I DO like the two instrumental pieces, and I DO have SOME familiarity with the Dixie Dregs, so any DT cover of something by them will probably be a GOOD cover.
But I would have picked "A Kind of Magic" for the QUEEN cover, and "Who's Behind the Door" by Zebra.
Really don't care for the songs that they DID pick by those two bands.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 04, 2014, 04:54:48 PM
I like the ORIGINAL (Maiden) version of "To Tame a Land," but I'm more less forced to agree with those of you who have "bashed" it.
I can LISTEN to it, but it they changed it TOO much for it to ever be even close to sounding as good as the original.
ANOTHER problem is that there are some songs that James's voice just isn't RIGHT for, and I'm afraid that this is ONE of them.

Actually, if you read carefully, most of the people who "bashed" it believe that DT did a great job on To Tame A Land and some of us think DT's version is BETTER than the original.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: chaossystem on December 04, 2014, 07:04:38 PM
Well, there were some people who didn't like it, and there's no law, or even a "DT Forum rule" that says we have to agree with one another.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 04, 2014, 07:06:33 PM
Well, there were some people who didn't like it, and there's no law, or even a "DT Forum rule" that says we have to agree with one another.

Yeah, but you were saying that you agree with everyone else about TTAL, but the comments I saw said the opposite of what you said.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: bosk1 on December 04, 2014, 08:14:59 PM
...there's no law, or even a "DT Forum rule" that says we have to agree with one another.

No, but there IS a forum rule about baiting other users.  And almost without exception, every one of your posts starts with assumptions or statements that are patently false, which appears to be a concerted effort to stir up trouble and bait people into arguments.  I, for one, am tired of seeing those kinds of posts.  Consider this your final warning that you are going to be banned from the forum if you continue to antagonize people and stir up trouble.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: puppyonacid on December 05, 2014, 04:25:18 AM
I really don't see how a Kind of Magic would have been a better fit for DT than the Queen covers they did.

The Queen covers they did choose are representative of a time when Queen were arguably prog rock - and DT did a good job. I prefer the Queen originals but I am biased since I'm a huge Queen fan. That being the case, I can't see any basis for DT covering a later Queen "pop" song.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Outcrier on December 05, 2014, 04:33:56 AM
Yeah, i thought the same.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 05, 2014, 07:32:38 AM
I really don't see how a Kind of Magic would have been a better fit for DT than the Queen covers they did.

The Queen covers they did choose are representative of a time when Queen were arguably prog rock - and DT did a good job. I prefer the Queen originals but I am biased since I'm a huge Queen fan. That being the case, I can't see any basis for DT covering a later Queen "pop" song.

Agreed entirely. Although honestly, I would have loved to see them do something more hard rock oriented from queen such as I Want It All, or even Innuendo, which in itself is pretty progressive structurally.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: puppyonacid on December 05, 2014, 08:04:19 AM
I doubt anyone but Freddie could have done Innuendo any justice live - it is a great track though!

I'm not sure where else DT could have gone with a Queen cover as the deeper cuts are a bit harder to pull off. TBH, when I'd heard what they were attempting on BC&SL with regards to Queen covers, I was really skeptical! They did nail it though.

White Man would have been cool from a day at the races.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 05, 2014, 08:20:30 AM
I doubt anyone but Freddie could have done Innuendo any justice live - it is a great track though!

I'm not sure where else DT could have gone with a Queen cover as the deeper cuts are a bit harder to pull off. TBH, when I'd heard what they were attempting on BC&SL with regards to Queen covers, I was really skeptical! They did nail it though.

I didn't mean live, but I think Innuendo's particular style would actually fit JLB really well. And dude, with all due respect to Queen, musically, I don't think there's a single Queen song that DT couldn't do justice to.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: puppyonacid on December 05, 2014, 08:57:01 AM
I doubt anyone but Freddie could have done Innuendo any justice live - it is a great track though!

I'm not sure where else DT could have gone with a Queen cover as the deeper cuts are a bit harder to pull off. TBH, when I'd heard what they were attempting on BC&SL with regards to Queen covers, I was really skeptical! They did nail it though.

I didn't mean live, but I think Innuendo's particular style would actually fit JLB really well. And dude, with all due respect to Queen, musically, I don't think there's a single Queen song that DT couldn't do justice to.

The Prophets song? Seaside Rendezvous? March of the Black Queen? Bring Back that Leroy brown? I could go on. DT don't have the vocals to do it.

I wasn't dissing DT.  Fact is though Queen had Freddie. I love JLB and do not get the hate towards him but he's no Freddie. And I find that covering Queen is hard not so much from a music standpoint, but from the fact that most people that cover them often just end up sounding like cheesy covers bands. That's my experience anyway/.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 05, 2014, 09:02:01 AM
Well, whether you like JLB's voice better than Freddie's or not, is one thing, but he does have a wider range than Freddie by about half an octave, and it does go very high, so note for note, he could cover those songs and still bring power to his performance without a problem. I mean, some Queen songs would be impossible to do justice to live, because of vocal layering and all that, but in a studio setting, I think it would work. I'm not saying JLB's performance would surpass what Freddie did, but it would still be enjoyable, and the songs would still sound great.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: puppyonacid on December 05, 2014, 09:07:44 AM
Axl Rose also has a bigger range than Freddie. Jus' sayin'.

Incidentally, you don't hear JLB multi tracked that often in DT. I've often thought it's because his timbre and vibrato might not work for multi tracking.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Stadler on December 05, 2014, 09:15:01 AM
I doubt anyone but Freddie could have done Innuendo any justice live - it is a great track though!

I'm not sure where else DT could have gone with a Queen cover as the deeper cuts are a bit harder to pull off. TBH, when I'd heard what they were attempting on BC&SL with regards to Queen covers, I was really skeptical! They did nail it though.

White Man would have been cool from a day at the races.

I am certainly not trying to argue with you, and while I don't think he did BETTER than Freddie, the Robert Plant version of Innuendo from the Memorial Concert is literally the ONE SONG that I would love to hear over and over, and is, ironically, the one song that is not on the official releases from that show (Plant blocked it).    I thought Plant was one of a handful of singers (Cherone, John, Rose) that didn't get chewed up and spit out by the Queen catalogue.   

There's a lot of good Queen for DT to cover, but having said that, I can't quibble; they have to play SOMETHING, and better what they did play than say, BoRhap or something obvious like that.  Queen II is my favorite Queen album (followed by A Kind Of Magic) but I'm not sure there's anything there that is ripe to cover.   Ogre Battle, maybe?  One Vision?   Though thinking about it, I don't caer for the song, but I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear James and Mike do the "Insanity laughs under pressure we're cracking..." section of Under Pressure (like Freddie and Roger do it on Live Magic).
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 05, 2014, 09:17:56 AM
Axl Rose also has a bigger range than Freddie. Jus' sayin'.

Incidentally, you don't hear JLB multi tracked that often in DT. I've often thought it's because his timbre and vibrato might not work for multi tracking.

Well, don't ask me, I don't like Axl's voice in general. But he was apparently awarded the title of "Greatest Rock Singer" or whatever it was. So there's no accounting for taste, I suppose.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Stadler on December 05, 2014, 09:19:05 AM
Axl Rose also has a bigger range than Freddie. Jus' sayin'.

Incidentally, you don't hear JLB multi tracked that often in DT. I've often thought it's because his timbre and vibrato might not work for multi tracking.

It's not true multitracking, but I do like when James sings with himself, ala "This Is The Life".   I LOVE that effect.

And @puppyonacid has a great point:  range isn't everything.   I think Freddie is the greatest singer in what we would call "Rock".  He's got the whole package:  range, power, tone, bombast, subtle, opera, metal... Queen's music was about as (stylistically) varied as any major touring acts could be, and he did it all.  James is close (I'm a big fan of his singing, if not the man) but Freddie is still the standard by which others are measured, in my opinion. 
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 05, 2014, 09:42:41 AM
It's not true multitracking, but I do like when James sings with himself, ala "This Is The Life".   I LOVE that effect.
Hey, take any harmonies from I&W, the "Be confined" section of Metropolis, JLB sounds fantastic harmonizing with himself.

And @puppyonacid has a great point:  range isn't everything.   I think Freddie is the greatest singer in what we would call "Rock".  He's got the whole package:  range, power, tone, bombast, subtle, opera, metal... Queen's music was about as (stylistically) varied as any major touring acts could be, and he did it all.  James is close (I'm a big fan of his singing, if not the man) but Freddie is still the standard by which others are measured, in my opinion.

I'm not saying that range is everything, but I'd say it is one of the most important factors when it comes to doing a note for note cover of the original. And considering that DT has always done covers very faithfully to the originals, James' range is very important. I just can't help but think of times when a singer is trying to do a cover of another singer and he can't even reach the proper notes, that's where I go, "Yeah... Dude... Give it up."
But JLB can hit those notes. And do so confidently. And that's all that really matters as he can't really do much more to "change his voice to sound like Freddie".
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Orbert on December 05, 2014, 12:18:07 PM
Actually, the way JLB sings the Queen covers, with the same expression and subtlety as the originals, is what really surprised me and, in my opinion, makes the covers so impressive.  I knew he had the range; I was just surprised at how much he could sound like Freddie, and it's not really his voice, it's the way he sings.  I didn't know JLB had that in him.

I mean, you're right; he can't change his voice to sound like Freddie, but I think the way he imitated Freddie's style and delivery more than made up for that, and he does sound like Freddie.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: chaossystem on December 05, 2014, 12:28:21 PM
...there's no law, or even a "DT Forum rule" that says we have to agree with one another.

No, but there IS a forum rule about baiting other users.  And almost without exception, every one of your posts starts with assumptions or statements that are patently false, which appears to be a concerted effort to stir up trouble and bait people into arguments.  I, for one, am tired of seeing those kinds of posts.  Consider this your final warning that you are going to be banned from the forum if you continue to antagonize people and stir up trouble.

I THOUGHT I was right about a lot of people not liking that version of that song.

I didn't START the argument about it.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 05, 2014, 12:41:17 PM
If you take every word he capitalizes and then imagine Chandler from Friends saying it, it's actually quite funny!
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: SuperTaco on December 05, 2014, 12:59:17 PM
If you take every word he capitalizes and then imagine Chandler from Friends saying it, it's actually quite funny!

 :rollin

It wasn't ME, it was MONICA.

I picked "To Tame A Land" because I've been learning the rhythm guitar parts. It's pretty fun.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 05, 2014, 02:37:22 PM
If you take every word he capitalizes and then imagine Chandler from Friends saying it, it's actually quite funny!
Oh, crap  :lol
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: puppyonacid on December 09, 2014, 03:45:32 AM
Just a word on Robert Plants version of Innuendo.

He blocked it because it was atrocious. It was clearly under rehearsed and he really fluffed it up. He misses notes all over the place and comes in a measure early for the second verse.

I'm not criticising RP generally as I do really like his voice but this was a terrible performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7LM9s3Lm4A

One of the YT comments says he was ill at the time. Could be that I guess.
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: Stadler on December 09, 2014, 08:53:10 AM
Just a word on Robert Plants version of Innuendo.

He blocked it because it was atrocious. It was clearly under rehearsed and he really fluffed it up. He misses notes all over the place and comes in a measure early for the second verse.

I'm not criticising RP generally as I do really like his voice but this was a terrible performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7LM9s3Lm4A

One of the YT comments says he was ill at the time. Could be that I guess.

I get the roughness and rawness, but I liked that for the fit between singer and song.  It wasn't a 3:10 pop song.  Innuendo was one of the more Zeppelin-like songs in the Queen catalogue, and I liked how they interpolated Kashmir into the middle section, and I liked how Brian played the original "flamenco" parts (I think played by Steve Howe on record).   Then the return back into Innuendo... and at that point, Plant's voice seems to be loosening up a bit.   
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: erwinrafael on December 11, 2014, 09:52:54 PM
For some reason, I would like to hear do something out of left field just for fun. Like Dragon Attack.  :lol
Title: Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 12, 2014, 07:44:21 AM
For some reason, I would like to hear do something out of left field just for fun. Like Dragon Attack.  :lol

They did a live version of Death on Two Legs. That was fun.