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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Moor on November 11, 2014, 06:30:51 AM
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I tried to post this on the Metallica thread, but it seems it is locked. Here is the full story:
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/metallica-enlist-fans-for-kill-em-all-and-ride-the-lightning-reissues-20141030
I believe we all agree which of their albums needs to be remastered before any other.
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I believe we all agree which of their albums needs to be remastered before any other.
That would require a proper remix to fix its problems (assuming we're thinking the same thing!), but I've been waiting forever to be able to listen to that album again. Hopefully they don't balls up these remasters and brickwall them to hell like their recent albums. I don't think they have an ear for production.
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I believe we all agree which of their albums needs to be remastered before any other.
That would require a proper remix to fix its problems (assuming we're thinking the same thing!), but I've been waiting forever to be able to listen to that album again. Hopefully they don't balls up these remasters and brickwall them to hell like their recent albums. I don't think they have an ear for production.
I am talking about AJFA... if you are pointing to DM, you may be right as well :biggrin:
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I believe we all agree which of their albums needs to be remastered before any other.
That would require a proper remix to fix its problems (assuming we're thinking the same thing!), but I've been waiting forever to be able to listen to that album again. Hopefully they don't balls up these remasters and brickwall them to hell like their recent albums. I don't think they have an ear for production.
I am talking about AJFA... if you are pointing to DM, you may be right as well :biggrin:
I was also talking about AJFA. :tup
The Guitar Hero III version of DM is a perfectly fine alternative for me, so no problems there.
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I don't see any room for improvement for KEA, RTL and MOP. They are fine the way they are, really good sounding thrash albums. I'm sure these remasters will just pump the compression to 11 without any real "mastering" work done anyway.
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I hope they are louder than DM just to shut everybody up.
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I hope they are louder than DM just to shut everybody up.
It's not even possible to be louder than DM without being literally white noise. And a screwed up remaster is going to have the exact opposite effect of shutting anyone up.
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It occurred to me some time ago that Metallica are probably the biggest band that have never had their back catalogue remastered - these are long overdue.
I didn't mind the Death Magnetic CD - sure, it's bad, but it's not the worst I've heard. AJFA is probably the album I'm most anticipating hearing. I do hope they make a good job of these, because "remastered" these days always seems to mean "brickwalled", and when it comes to quality audiophile releases, we all know Metallica are a bunch of cloth-eared clods.
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I hope they are louder than DM just to shut everybody up.
It's not even possible to be louder than DM without being literally white noise.
Yes it is - DM has the average DR of 3 (https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=death+magnetic), while there are albums with literally zero dynamics: https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr An example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuO3b4_7OLI (warning: don't listen at a high volume!)
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I believe we all agree which of their albums needs to be remastered before any other.
That would require a proper remix to fix its problems (assuming we're thinking the same thing!), but I've been waiting forever to be able to listen to that album again. Hopefully they don't balls up these remasters and brickwall them to hell like their recent albums. I don't think they have an ear for production.
I'd kill to hear a properly remixed and remastered version of ... And Justice For All. Such an incredible album. :metal
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I don't see any room for improvement for KEA, RTL and MOP. They are fine the way they are, really good sounding thrash albums. I'm sure these remasters will just pump the compression to 11 without any real "mastering" work done anyway.
My thoughts exactly, KEA, RTL and MOP are great sounding albums in their own right. Now that being said, a great quality remaster isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I agree with your assessment that based on Metallica's previous track record in recent years, this probably wont go well.
The bonus content they are collecting from fans could either be really cool or really redundant with what can already be found on YouTube or by doing a google image search.
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I hope they are louder than DM just to shut everybody up.
It's not even possible to be louder than DM without being literally white noise.
Yes it is - DM has the average DR of 3 (https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=death+magnetic), while there are albums with literally zero dynamics: https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr An example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuO3b4_7OLI (warning: don't listen at a high volume!)
It won't let me play the video for some reason, but I don't even want to hear anything worse than DM, because DM sounds so utterly shit that it should be considered fraud to sell it as music at all. I consider DR5 unlistenable (DR6 is case by case), and DM is the only album I have with a lower DR than that.
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Wow, a remixed & remastered version of AJFA would be the bee's knees.
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I hope they are louder than DM just to shut everybody up.
It's not even possible to be louder than DM without being literally white noise.
Yes it is - DM has the average DR of 3 (https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=death+magnetic), while there are albums with literally zero dynamics: https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr An example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuO3b4_7OLI (warning: don't listen at a high volume!)
:lol
That was literally unlistenable. Why would you make this? :rollin :lol
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I hope they are louder than DM just to shut everybody up.
It's not even possible to be louder than DM without being literally white noise.
Yes it is - DM has the average DR of 3 (https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=death+magnetic), while there are albums with literally zero dynamics: https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr An example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuO3b4_7OLI (warning: don't listen at a high volume!)
:lol
That was literally unlistenable. Why would you make this? :rollin :lol
That's why it's called noise music! :lol
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Wow, a remixed & remastered version of AJFA would be the bee's knees.
This. Times a ton.
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Wow, DM has a DR of 3, but the Guitar Hero 3 rip has a DR of 12? I didn't realise the difference was that great...
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Wow, DM has a DR of 3, but the Guitar Hero 3 rip has a DR of 12? I didn't realise the difference was that great...
The Guitar Hero master is the one I have in my iPod since 2008.
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Yeah the only reason I have DM and SA on CD is that they were a penny each on eBay :lol
That, and the live DVD that comes with SA. :tup
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Wow, a remixed & remastered version of AJFA would be the bee's knees.
Seriously, that would be amazing.
EDIT: This is now the Metallica thread. Not sure why the old one was locked without a new one started.
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Wow, a remixed & remastered version of AJFA would be the bee's knees.
Seriously, that would be amazing.
to be honest, all the albums pre-Load (and post-Reload...) could use a remixing, particularly the absolute mud all over RTL. i am doubting any of them will be remixed.
in fact, i bet they are just issuing the masters from the recent (2013?) Japan mini-LP presses stateside — it's a brickwalled mess.
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RTL and KEA need more than a re-master.
IMO, they need a de-reverb first.
I guess some would argue that the big, wet, distant sounding mix on James's voice and on the guitars is what give RTL and KEA their character.
But the more tight, up-front sound of MOP sounds FAR better to me personally, especially for thrash metal.
The palm-muted riffs just sound so much tighter without slopping a ton of reverb on them. And James doesn't sound like he's singing in an opera hall.
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I don't think anything should be remixed except for AJFA because it has a glaring problem accepted by the majority of Metallica fans and the band.
For better or worse, the rest of them are simply products of their time, and their sound is part of the character of those albums. Personally I think KEA sounds great for that era of the genre, and MoP sounds good too. I'm not a fan of RTL's dull sound, but there's not really any objective problem that needs to be corrected. It is what it is, so I'd want that left alone too.
I definitely don't want them to go as far as making artistic changes to the sound of the album. They just need to boost the bass a little on AJFA, and perhaps EQ the guitars accordingly for the mix to work. They shouldn't touch the reverb, they shouldn't mess with modern production techniques and ideas, they should just finally do justice to the album and make it sound in line with their other classic albums. Change it as little as possible to correct that one problem.
Chances are they're just going to remaster them and be done with it, and we'll be let down. The main motivation for re-releasing them is because they now own the recordings and want to make money off them.
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I'll be pretty disappointed if the remasters are simply brickwalling.
Then again, I agree with Blob that apart from AJFA they don't really need any remix or anything like that. A genuinely good remaster than makes it A BIT louder and stronger would be great, but I just don't trust them to get it right.
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I don't think anything should be remixed except for AJFA because it has a glaring problem accepted by the majority of Metallica fans and the band.
For better or worse, the rest of them are simply products of their time, and their sound is part of the character of those albums. Personally I think KEA sounds great for that era of the genre, and MoP sounds good too. I'm not a fan of RTL's dull sound, but there's not really any objective problem that needs to be corrected. It is what it is, so I'd want that left alone too.
I definitely don't want them to go as far as making artistic changes to the sound of the album. They just need to boost the bass a little on AJFA, and perhaps EQ the guitars accordingly for the mix to work. They shouldn't touch the reverb, they shouldn't mess with modern production techniques and ideas, they should just finally do justice to the album and make it sound in line with their other classic albums. Change it as little as possible to correct that one problem.
Chances are they're just going to remaster them and be done with it, and we'll be let down. The main motivation for re-releasing them is because they now own the recordings and want to make money off them.
Good points. I too would love the bass boost on AJFA, as that is musically, my second favorite Metallica album.
You're right though, as much as I would love to hear RTL without all the reverb (as per my previous post), I guess it really is more of a personal preference thing with me. I always forget that pretty much ALL music had the reverb-flooded sound in the 80's, so it is a character of its time.
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This makes no sense at all. KEA and RTL sound absolutely great the way they are. Cleaning them up at all would ruin the charm. Really, the only Metallica album (aside from DM for obvious reasons) that needs any sort of treatment is AJFA, but you could argue that the hollow, castrated sound gives that album its charm too.
I mean, if these were full-on remixes like the Megadeth back catalog (which is mostly fantastic save for portions of Rust in Peace where they had to re-record vocals), I'd be reasonably excited. Those albums were plenty thrashy and soulful before, and the clarity was actually a benefit.
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Meh, I seldom enjoy a remaster more than the original.
Megadeth back catalog... Rust in Peace
Case in point, I really hated this remaster. I traded a friend my original for the remaster and had to buy the original again (in fact, the only Megadeth remasters that actually benefitted the albums were Killing is my Business and So Far So Good So What, and parts of Youthanasia, the rest of it was just a bullshit money grab).
Like UMH is basically saying, 'modernizing' the sound just completely kills the vibe for me - unless the original mix is in absolute need of a remaster which I don't think KEA or RTL are.
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Listening to The Judas Kiss right now. Forgot how much I love it.
JUDAS LIVES, RECITE THIS VOW: I'VE BECOME YOUR NEW GOD NOW
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Listening to The Judas Kiss right now. Forgot how much I love it.
JUDAS LIVES, RECITE THIS VOW: I'VE BECOME YOUR NEW GOD NOW
BUTBUTBUT METALLICA SUXXORS NOW LOLOLHAHALOL
Fantastic song :tup I'm going to have to give Death Magnetic a listen tonight or tomorrow
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Not too excited about the remastering plans, hope it works out well though.
They're either putting the new album on hold to do this or they won't be very involved in the remastering process.
If they do as good a job as Mustaine did with the Megadeth remasters I'd absolutely love it, but I feel this should have been MoP and AJFA, rather than KEA & RTL. I think KEA, much like Killing is My Business, is beyond saving, something about the guitar and drum sounds of both debut albums. If they manage to make RTL sound as good as the Peace Sells remaster I'll be very happy, that crispy drum sound, the prominent bass and sharp distorted guitar sounds.
I'm drawing lines between this and the Megadeth remasters cause it feels the most relevant.
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Meh, I seldom enjoy a remaster more than the original.
Megadeth back catalog... Rust in Peace
Case in point, I really hated this remaster. I traded a friend my original for the remaster and had to buy the original again (in fact, the only Megadeth remasters that actually benefitted the albums were Killing is my Business and So Far So Good So What, and parts of Youthanasia, the rest of it was just a bullshit money grab).
Like UMH is basically saying, 'modernizing' the sound just completely kills the vibe for me - unless the original mix is in absolute need of a remaster which I don't think KEA or RTL are.
God, I know. The vocals on Take No Prisoners are just embarrassing. I love how everything sounds on the original, and everything on the remix is delightfully crisp, but the vocal butchery is just inexcusable. I know it wasn't entirely his fault because they lost the tapes or some shit, but damn. Agreed on KIMB and SFSGSW (although that synthesized trumpet on Into the Lungs of Hell was totally unnecessary), but I also think Peace Sells benefited from a louder, crisper sound.
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Oh yeah you're right, Peace Sells remaster was great. The vocals on Lucretia and Five Magics I absolutely abhor.
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I hope they do this. I'm glad they're at least open with the idea for a remaster/remix. There's nothing wrong with it as probably the only thing holding stuff back like this from being made possible is people not liking change. We do not like change, especially the fans. The beauty about it is you don't have to buy or listen to them if they're available.
I agree with Justice should also be looked at, the bass guitar should be leveled out professionally. I've done it before so I already can imagine how it "could" sound, just PLZ NO BRICKWALL.
Also I agree with the re-recording portion of Rust In Peace. Pretty shit and one of the reasons it felt out of favor as one of the best remixes for Megadeth. At least the overall sound is awesome, the original is of course the best. Undisputable.
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I listened to the original RTL with the bass turned up last night, and Cliff was not that noticeable. The low end of the drums were much louder than the bass guit was. With all of talk of Justice not having audible bass, I never heard anyone mention RTL.
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For the longest time I didn't know the beginning of For Whom the Bell Tolls was played by a bass, but other than that, yeah, the bass isn't all that loud. It's a big louder on Master of Puppets, especially on Orion. I've never understood why he's obtained godly bass guitar player status though. If he didn't die, would people have still held him so highly?
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For the longest time I didn't know the beginning of For Whom the Bell Tolls was played by a bass, but other than that, yeah, the bass isn't all that loud. It's a big louder on Master of Puppets, especially on Orion. I've never understood why he's obtained godly bass guitar player status though. If he didn't die, would people have still held him so highly?
People still don't believe me....but even when Cliff was still alive, Anesthesia was the bass "Eruption" of its time. I've never known so many people who picked up a bass instead of a guitar JUST because of that song. It's only been within the last 5+ years or so that I've started to hear people slag on it, and it still seems sacrilegious to me. Just an amazing, jaw-dropping performance.
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Yup. All of that^. It's mainly younger people who are of the same mindset as those who scoff at 80s gaming consoles cuz "lol dont look liek xbox". Basically, those who try to judge everything like it was all released at the same time instead of appreciating things as they are unto themselves as well as how impressive they were compared to their contemporaries. I get that prog and other shredcentric genres have since made what Cliff was doing look less impressive but in the rock and metal world of the early 80s bass shredding was far from common especially to the skillful extent he was doing it.
Beyond these points, his wings were possibly clipped by the fact that thrash didn't have the same freedom to include bass shredding in numerous spots on an album as more experimental genres did. You'll get the occasional flourish like the Bells intro, Anesthesia, or his Ktulu fills, but there was virtually no way they were gonna let him cut loose like Les Claypool in the majority of tracks. So basically, I feel he would have a much more lasting legacy with noobs if he'd been allowed to have even 25% as many opportunities to shred as Kirk did.
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Except I thought Anesthesia sounded like crap 20 years ago. You people need to come up with a new argument that doesn't just generalize and make blind assumptions. There's no denying Cliff Burton was a good bassists and deserves praise, but the level he's elevated to is a tad ridiculous. Just because I was a year old when he died doesn't mean I can't have an opinion.
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14. Super Collider
13. Risk
12. Cryptic Writings
11. Thirteen
10. Countdown to Extinction
09. The World Needs a Hero
08. United Abominations
07. Killing is my Businness... And Business Is Good!
06. So Far, So Good... So What!
05. The System Has Failed
04. Peace Sells... But Who's Buying?
03. Endgame
02. Youthanasia
01. Rust in Peace
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I GET IT!
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I hope they do this. I'm glad they're at least open with the idea for a remaster/remix. There's nothing wrong with it as probably the only thing holding stuff back like this from being made possible is people not liking change. We do not like change, especially the fans. The beauty about it is you don't have to buy or listen to them if they're available.
I agree with Justice should also be looked at, the bass guitar should be leveled out professionally. I've done it before so I already can imagine how it "could" sound, just PLZ NO BRICKWALL.
Also I agree with the re-recording portion of Rust In Peace. Pretty shit and one of the reasons it felt out of favor as one of the best remixes for Megadeth. At least the overall sound is awesome, the original is of course the best. Undisputable.
Seems to my ears he turned Ellefson's volume down on purpose since it was pre-reunion.
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Except I thought Anesthesia sounded like crap 20 years ago. You people need to come up with a new argument that doesn't just generalize and make blind assumptions. There's no denying Cliff Burton was a good bassists and deserves praise, but the level he's elevated to is a tad ridiculous. Just because I was a year old when he died doesn't mean I can't have an opinion.
I sure don't know of any bass player that can make a bass sound like a guitar like that.
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Except I thought Anesthesia sounded like crap 20 years ago. You people need to come up with a new argument that doesn't just generalize and make blind assumptions. There's no denying Cliff Burton was a good bassists and deserves praise, but the level he's elevated to is a tad ridiculous. Just because I was a year old when he died doesn't mean I can't have an opinion.
I sure don't know of any bass player that can make a bass sound like a guitar like that.
Plenty can, they just don't, because it doesn't sound pleasant and doesn't really work in a song.
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Except I thought Anesthesia sounded like crap 20 years ago. You people need to come up with a new argument that doesn't just generalize and make blind assumptions. There's no denying Cliff Burton was a good bassists and deserves praise, but the level he's elevated to is a tad ridiculous. Just because I was a year old when he died doesn't mean I can't have an opinion.
I sure don't know of any bass player that can make a bass sound like a guitar like that.
Plenty can, they just don't, because it doesn't sound pleasant and doesn't really work in a song.
Cliff was by no means the greatest bass player that ever lived. After the stems for the first few albums became available it became clear he had bad technique and covered up his mistakes with loads of distortion.
I'm pretty sure that if he simply quit the band in 1985 instead of dying - he wouldn't be held in such high regard.
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People still don't believe me....but even when Cliff was still alive, Anesthesia was the bass "Eruption" of its time. I've never known so many people who picked up a bass instead of a guitar JUST because of that song. It's only been within the last 5+ years or so that I've started to hear people slag on it, and it still seems sacrilegious to me. Just an amazing, jaw-dropping performance.
That might be, but to me, while Eruption is a perfectly-crafted guitar showcase, featuring a really nice melody while still being totally showy, Anesthesia sounds like a guy fiddling around on his bass guitar, almost like he is just goofing around while trying to get a particular sound or find a melody in their somewhere. In other words, it sounds like a mess. I know some of you will disagree, and that's fine, but equating it to a legendary song like Eruption is more sacrilegious than any criticism of Anesthesia could ever be.
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I'm pretty sure that if he simply quit the band in 1985 instead of dying - he wouldn't be held in such high regard.
I agree with that.
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I'm pretty sure that if he simply quit the band in 1985 instead of dying - he wouldn't be held in such high regard.
I agree with that.
He died young and played bass on Master Of Puppets - one of the best metal albums ever. Apparently thats enough to warrant being called the greatest bass player ever.
But imagine if it was Lars who had died in 1986. Would he now be regarded as the greatest metal drummer of all time ?
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Probably, since people now treat The Rev from Ax7 like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Not saying he was a bad drummer, but he was far from the regard he's now held in.
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Imagine if it was Lars who had died in 1986. Would he now be regarded as the greatest metal drummer of all time ?
Lars was never held in nearly as high a regard as Cliff was anyway so that's a pretty exaggerated comparison.
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Imagine if it was Lars who had died in 1986. Would he now be regarded as the greatest metal drummer of all time ?
Lars was never held in nearly as high a regard as Cliff was anyway so that's a pretty exaggerated comparison.
Don't know if I agree. Cliff was pretty much gone before anyone noticed. I knew a lot of people, myself included, that thought Lars was pretty good.
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He was pretty good all the way up until and including 2003. I stand by his "playing" on St. Anger. Drum sound is another story.
But his playing on St. Anger and the DVD that came with it - he's really on fire. Some of his most energetic and interesting drumming since AJFA.
Again - drum sound is another matter.
Something happened in 2004 where James forgot how to sing and Lars completely forgot how to drum in time.
I think that if they'd called it a day after S&M in 1999 - it would have been a fitting end to their career and we'd have none of the horrors that followed.
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Imagine if it was Lars who had died in 1986. Would he now be regarded as the greatest metal drummer of all time ?
Lars was never held in nearly as high a regard as Cliff was anyway so that's a pretty exaggerated comparison.
Don't know if I agree. Cliff was pretty much gone before anyone noticed. I knew a lot of people, myself included, that thought Lars was pretty good.
At first I thought Lars was really good but over the years he's regressed in his playing. Never adventurous. Is that bad? No, but he's not mindblowning as a drummer.
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I liken him to an aging athlete. Some performances, he seems to be hanging on for dear life. :lol
But I cannot get on the Lars Bashwagon. He and his band were so great and influential. Unfortunately, they just didn't have it in them to have a productive second half of a career. Successful, I guess, but not productive.
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I think Lars is fine on their classic albums. What always struck me as weird was kinda how lazy he was though. Like, it always felt like he relied a lot on fast drumming, his own "raw" energy and just bashing the shit out of his drum kit. He never really seemed ambitious to develop his skill and get better on a technical level.
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It's really simple. Lars was a master of "I lost my place, so I'm going to make up a fill until I find it again." But to tell you the truth, I always knew what he was doing, and I personally thought he was pretty damn good at it. Sometimes, magic happened in those little "oh crap, where am I" moments.
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I had the chance to watch Through the Never the other day... What a great way to listen to those tunes in such a big production/effects and concept. I really liked it.
IMO the box office failure is another evidence that "what happens in the metal scene stays in the metal scene"
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The box office failure stems from the delusion that people who don't like Metallica would pay for it as well.
...and for fans it was a disappointment because there was very little music in it (maybe an hour if I remember correctly).
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Yes for a similar experience without the narrative part - just watch Francais Pour Une Nuit - Metallica in Nimes DVD.
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I think also, a lot of people just don't understood the point of, or the idea behind Through the Never. Is it a movie or is it a concert? It's like they tried to mash the two things together and people got confused along the way. I think the problem is that people who go for the music will be disappointed that it's not just a straight concert, and the people who go for the movie experience might not be Metallica fans, and so the music might ruin it. In between those two groups, you have a smaller group of fans who might like it for what it is, both movie and concert, but I have a feeling that mixing the two alienated a lot of potential viewers.
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I thought it was extremely stupid and unnecessary, but Metallica does extremely stupid and unnecessary things kind of a lot.
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I thought it was extremely stupid and unnecessary, but Metallica does extremely stupid and unnecessary things kind of a lot.
This is sig material.
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I thought it was extremely stupid and unnecessary, but Metallica does extremely stupid and unnecessary things kind of a lot.
Pretty much every idea they've had since Jason left.
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I thought it was extremely stupid and unnecessary, but Metallica does extremely stupid and unnecessary things kind of a lot.
Actually, this is the kind of thing that makes me start liking them again...something I haven't truly felt since 1990. (well...maybe briefly with St Anger and Lulu)
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While And Justice For All was the last album I truly loved by them, I will admit that I have a soft spot for Load. I know Load/ReLoad gets a lot of hate, mainly by fans claiming the band "sold out". What I appreciate about Load is that Metallica followed their own music ambitions and went out of their usual box to create something different. I don't see it as selling out, because it's not like Metallica was a small band before. If you look at their success and popularity coming off of Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, And Justice, and most recently the Black Album, it's not like they had little popularity and needed a big break. So I have much admiration for Load, because the band did what they wanted to do themselves, even if it meant risking some outcry among the fans.
On the opposite of that, for the same reasons, I can't stand Death Magnetic. In my opinion it just feels fake, and it really just felt like the band took a step back, said "what do the fans want from us?" and then made an album. I know fans of their original style who might have been bored with the albums after Black Album were hyped, and I suppose if you don't really care about the heart or intent behind an album, all that remains is the sound. Even St. Anger felt more genuine to me. It's not a great album at all, but after watching the documentary and hearing the album, you could tell what they were going for, even if they missed the mark. Quality and admiration are two different things. Metallica made a safe album in the style that most people like them for, and so naturally it is going to appeal to a lot of fans right off the bat. While that's the Metallica sound I like myself, I just felt like the band did it for the wrong reasons. You do your albums for yourself and live shows for the fans.
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While And Justice For All was the last album I truly loved by them, I will admit that I have a soft spot for Load. I know Load/ReLoad gets a lot of hate, mainly by fans claiming the band "sold out". What I appreciate about Load is that Metallica followed their own music ambitions and went out of their usual box to create something different. I don't see it as selling out, because it's not like Metallica was a small band before. If you look at their success and popularity coming off of Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, And Justice, and most recently the Black Album, it's not like they had little popularity and needed a big break. So I have much admiration for Load, because the band did what they wanted to do themselves, even if it meant risking some outcry among the fans.
Assuming that's true, then yeah. You can give them props all day for being creative and following their ambitions or whatever. The fact is, this happened directly after Metallica REALLY hit it big. Yeah, there was a lot of hype in the metal community for The Black Album, but that gave them WAY more mainstream success than they EVER would have had without it. I mean, they toured on that thing for 4 fucking years. I can't see Load as anything more than trying to recapture the same spirit, if not going even more commercial to try to make it happen again. There's just not enough creative merit on Load to give it a pass, if you ask me. The songs aren't complex or fleshed out (save for The Outlaw Torn and MAYBE The House Jack Built), following the same boring verse-chorus structure. And honestly, aside from the two aforementioned songs, I can't see anything on Load that wasn't trying to appeal to the mainstream aside from it being a near 80 minute album that could have been barely passable if it only lasted for 50. The only songs I can tolerate anymore are Until it Sleeps, Hero of the Day, Bleeding Me, and The Outlaw Torn.
On the opposite of that, for the same reasons, I can't stand Death Magnetic. In my opinion it just feels fake, and it really just felt like the band took a step back, said "what do the fans want from us?" and then made an album. I know fans of their original style who might have been bored with the albums after Black Album were hyped, and I suppose if you don't really care about the heart or intent behind an album, all that remains is the sound. Even St. Anger felt more genuine to me. It's not a great album at all, but after watching the documentary and hearing the album, you could tell what they were going for, even if they missed the mark. Quality and admiration are two different things. Metallica made a safe album in the style that most people like them for, and so naturally it is going to appeal to a lot of fans right off the bat. While that's the Metallica sound I like myself, I just felt like the band did it for the wrong reasons. You do your albums for yourself and live shows for the fans.
All of that exactly. My hype for Death Magnetic was astronomical and I enjoyed the shit out of it for about a month before realizing it sounds forced and bored.
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On the opposite of that, for the same reasons, I can't stand Death Magnetic. In my opinion it just feels fake, and it really just felt like the band took a step back, said "what do the fans want from us?" and then made an album.
I have absolutely no problem with that approach whatsoever. But unfortunately...
...it sounds forced and bored.
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I think that's always how it is. You should always make an album for yourself and not for the fans. Sometimes a band makes what we would consider a "safe" album, but it is genuinely what they want to make, and it also just happens to be what the fans want to hear, and I think that's when you end up with an album like Iron Maiden's Brave New World. A genuinely good album which wasn't catered just to the fans, but the band wanted to make that kind of album. Death Magnetic in comparison just seemed so lifeless. It was as if they ONLY made it for the fans, and had zero passion or enthusiasm for it.
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On St. Anger it sounded at least like they were playing the shit out of their instruments. There's so much energy on that album and the DVD is even better.
Lars particularly plays some really crazy stuff.
On Death Magnetic it sounds so lifeless and flat and lacking in any energy at all.
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On Death Magnetic it sounds so lifeless and flat and lacking in any energy at all.
While I do not disagree, it should be pointed out in all fairness that the album is so brickwalled and flatlined that there are no dynamics whatsoever and the listener cannot easily discern a lot of what is being played other than what is right upfront in the mix.
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On St. Anger it sounded at least like they were playing the shit out of their instruments. There's so much energy on that album and the DVD is even better.
Lars particularly plays some really crazy stuff.
On Death Magnetic it sounds so lifeless and flat and lacking in any energy at all.
This is totally true, and I have to admit to absolutely and unironically loving Frantic.
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I think St. Anger could have been a great album to be honest. I've seen Some Kind of Monster a few times, and what saddens me is that some of the demos/teasers we get to hear, that doesn't end up on the album sounds kinda interesting. The final album as a whole has a few great tracks, but it feels like the producers and the guys around the band shaped the album a lot. When you watch the documentary it's like the producers are hammering in the motto "You guys gotta sound pissed" and the band just goes with it.
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St. Anger would have been so amazing if it ad the production of Garage Inc. Disc 1.
I'm pretty sure the band haven't made a good decision since about 2001.
It's like their ability to make a good decision left with Jason.
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I would probably go back further than that, but otherwise I agree.
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Ehh. I loved Load, Reload and S&M. I thought they were all great and at least the band sounded great on them thanks to Bob Rock.
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I said before that I have a soft spot for Load, and I would probably rank it as their 4th best album after the classic 3 (Lightning, Puppets and Justice). Justin brought up that most of the album is simpler songs with a more mellow sound, and I actually quite like that. I think those were the songs Bob Rock knew how to do the best, and most of my problems with the other albums Bob Rock "appeared" on was that his take on the heavy Metallica sound just sounded like a pretty dull and watered down version of how they sounded in the 80s. Black Album does have some good songs on it, but I think for me personally, that was the crucial breaking point. That was the moment for me when I felt the disappointment of them selling out, something that other fans felt happened on Load. And so I think that's why I might be easier on Load, because I had gotten over that disappointment by the time it came out.
S&M is pretty cool. I haven't listened to it in ages, but it's a neat little thing. No Leaf Clover is one of their most underrated songs.
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Load and S&M are two of my favourite Metallica albums so I certainly don't think there was a dip in quality.
I thought St Anger was terrible though. It could been pretty good, of course, but what actually came out was quite awful.
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I've never understood the "Reload" is all the leftover shit mentality since there are good and bad songs on each album.
Furthermore - in my opinion - the weaker songs on Reload are still better than the weaker songs on Load.
For Example - I prefer " Slither " and " Better Than You " to " Poor Twisted Me " and " Cure " and " Ronnie ".
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I'll be honest and say that I don't really remember much from ReLoad, except for the "hits" (the first 4-5 tracks). I don't remember disliking it that much though. I think their 90's as a whole gets more shit than it deserves. While I'm not huge on Black Album, I still think Load and ReLoad are much better than St. Anger and Death Magnetic. To me they had a brilliant 80's, a good 90's, a very mediocre 00's and now we have to wait for new albums to see where they move on. If Lulu is any indication of where the band is quality-wise, I have a feeling the ship has sailed. But who knows?
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If Lulu is any indication of where the band is quality-wise, I have a feeling the ship has sailed.
Sailed, hit the iceberg, sunken to the bottom of the ocean. :biggrin:
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Metallica can be ranked in decades for sure.
80s > 90s > 00s > 10s
The 00s were pretty terrible but at least they actually put out DM which is a halfway decent LP.
Since 2010 they've had nearly all their worst output and no studio album yet and were already
Half way through.
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They released an EP a while back right? B-Sides from Death Magnetic. Given my feelings towards that album, I never checked the EP out. I would probably check out a new album out of curiosity, but I don't expect much.
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Liked Death Magentic, it's not their best, but it's a nice little album.
EP was actually really good though.
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Liked Death Magentic, it's not their best, but it's a nice little album.
Yes, so did I. At least it's them rocking out.
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Beyond Magnetic really surprised me. The first three tracks on it are great and make me wish they hadn't been left out of Death Magnetic, considering they're much better than some of the songs that ended up being on it.
It's important to note that they're rough mixes, so don't expect fantastic production on them, but they're definitely still worth checking out.
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It's important to note that they're rough mixes, so don't expect fantastic production on them
How likely do you think it was that anyone was expecting good production after the monstrosity that was Death Magnetic? :lol
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I hate how they've not put out anything that sounds listenable this millennium.
Ironically their best *sounding* albums this Century is also one of the weakest things they've put their name to aka Lulu.
Now - i don't think it's the worst album ever ( metal machine music is even worse ) - but the guitars and drums sounded great on it.
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I've actually been listening to Metallica quite a bit lately and was struck by the fact they've only release nine albums. To me, that indicates that somewhere along the line they lost passion for actually creating music, and it kind of shows considering their last two or three albums haven't been anything special (to me, anyhow). Are there any other bands who experienced a similar career arc? It's kind of crazy when you think about it.
First ten years (1981-1991): Five albums, all generally considered to be terrific and wildly influential
Next 24 years (1992-2015): Four albums, two or three of which are generally considered to suck
Now I'm not saying I agree with the "general" opinions on Metallica, but I can't think of another band who opened up their career so strongly and then entered a 20 year period of low productivity and bad reviews.
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I've actually been listening to Metallica quite a bit lately and was struck by the fact they've only release nine albums. To me, that indicates that somewhere along the line they lost passion for actually creating music, and it kind of shows considering their last two or three albums haven't been anything special (to me, anyhow). Are there any other bands who experienced a similar career arc? It's kind of crazy when you think about it.
First ten years (1981-1991): Five albums, all generally considered to be terrific and wildly influential
Next 24 years (1992-2015): Four albums, two or three of which are generally considered to suck
Now I'm not saying I agree with the "general" opinions on Metallica, but I can't think of another band who opened up their career so strongly and then entered a 20 year period of low productivity and bad reviews.
I was thinking of this very point yesterday, generated by the Lars posts a few days ago. You are 100% correct. Metallica basically "losing it" is one of Metal's all time tragedies. Their 80's output is truly legendary. It's as if they fell off the face of the earth.
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Whilst not the caliber of their 80's material - I hold Metallica, Load & Reload in high regard also. The 00's onwards is where they completely lost the plot.
Ss yeah 80s & 90s > > > 00s & 10s
80s - Kill Em All , Ride The Lightning, Master Of Puppets, And Justice For All. :hefdaddy
90s - Metallica, Load, Reload, Garage Inc, S&M :tup
00s - St Anger, Death Magnetic, Lulu, Beyond Magnetic, Through The Never, :(
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I know not many will agree, but I still think Beyond Magnetic was a really solid EP. It's weird how what are essentially the B-sides to Death Magnetic were far above most of what Death Magnetic itself was. By itself, it doesn't really salvage Metallica in the '00's, but it shows how they weren't totally irredeemable in that decade.
That being said, I still totally agree with that ranking of decades in their career.
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Beyond Magnetic was like an EP of demoes that sounded better than the album they were left off from.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEdMq8tUjq8
That tempo change! :lol
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I gave a listen to the Guitar Hero version of DM to see if it changed my mind about the album, but sadly I still can't stand it. There are some good riffs here and there but the overall quality and variety is pretty poor imho. Besides this, James sounds like a bad parody of himself and the soloing by Kirk is downright atrocious, and I really mean this. I hate it so much that I'm willing to learn some editing software just to take the solos out.
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That Was Just Your Life and The Day That Never Comes are probably the only two Death Magnetic songs I would give a pass to, and that I enjoy. Apart from them, the album gets stale really fast, and the production is mostly to be blamed. It just sounds so darn flat. They could have recorded the album in a parking garage and it wouldn't have sounded worse.
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All Nightmare Long is pretty great.
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Urgh I hate that song. If I had to pick out a top3 worst Metallica songs, it would be on that list without a doubt.
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:lol
I like the riffs, the grooves. Yeah, it drags on a bit, but it's one of the few redeemable songs on DM.
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Urgh I hate that song. If I had to pick out a top3 worst Metallica songs, it would be on that list without a doubt.
Wut.
Really fun song, probably my favourite on the album.
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It has some decent riffs but I think my main problem in it is James, and some of the vocals and melodies are cringe-worthy. The chorus especially, but I also cringe when he does the "luck runs out" thing. :P
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Urgh I hate that song. If I had to pick out a top3 worst Metallica songs, it would be on that list without a doubt.
Wut.
Really fun song, probably my favourite on the album.
It's fun to play on guitar !
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This is where I stand with Metallica these days.
Never really cared for KEA. I generally don't like the whole Judas Priest-esque "motorcycles and headbanging and leather!" brand of metal, and KEA feels too close to that for me to be able to get into it.
Of the three other 80s albums, since I first heard them 15 odd years ago, I've always ranked them Justice/Puppets/Ride. I've been through a big dip in my interest in Metallica until lately, which means I've listened to them fuck all in a long time. Returning to them, although a lot of Justice has a special place for me still, I can't help but feel Ride is the better album. Their 80s albums undeniably became more clinical and calculated as they went, so Ride just seems the most natural and impassioned. Masters is now waaay down the bottom. Little of that album interests me much at all, and I really don't understand why.
Black Album, Load, Garage and S&M are mixed bags - some amazing stuff, some okay stuff, some shite. I have no interest in Reload beyond a few tracks.
I remain a staunch defender of St. Anger and Lulu. In fact, before the recent re-spiking in my Metallica listening, these were the only albums of theirs I was putting on. If you don't like them, cool, whatever, there are a few tracks on each that don't do it for me, but I love the majority of both albums.
Death Magnetic was weak pandering trash. I was appalled by it when it came out, and have never revisited it. For all the stuff of theirs I'm not a fan of, I really respect the fact that Metallica have always tried different stuff out and gone wherever they feel like going. DM felt like an almost complete violation of that spirit.
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How do you know DM wasn't them going wherever they felt like going?
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I don't, hence the "felt". But there is this:
At the start of the studio sessions, frontman James Hetfield said Rubin challenged them to think back to 1985, when they wrote and recorded 1986's Master Of Puppets. He wanted Metallica to return to that mind-set, to recall those elements, experiences and influences that drove them to what's widely acknowledged as their finest work.
So they were channelled in that direction, and the album that resulted, perhaps unsurprisingly, feels and sounds like a half-assed, trope-ified, sterile pastiche of 80s thrash elements.
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Probably why the playing is so half assed as well - especially from Hammett.
Whereas on St. Anger - they were celebrating still being a band and the playing on that album is brimming with energy and enthusiasm.
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St. Anger is not a great album by any means, but at least it feels like they tried. At least you can feel some passion, some enthusiasm and some drive behind that album. The band were pissed and the album sounds pissed off as a result. You can always refer to St. Anger as the angry album, whereas Death Magnetic is more like a blander C-version of Master of Puppets/And Justice For All.
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St. Anger might've been fine if they just went in and banged it out, but they beat that thing to death, and it sounds anything but spontaneous.
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Ah....I can feel it finally starting to bubble just below the surface.
I knew that after much time had passed, people would begin being just a bit kinder to SA.
I have always held that TBA is to SA what a perfumed french poodle is to a snarling, ravenous, unbathed, rabid, junkyard dog. I really like St Anger. Yes...the snare is a bit annoying, but I really love the feel of that album in spite of it.
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SA will never be looked upon fondly or seen as some hidden gem. The album is just embarrassingly bad overall. It has a few promising songs, but it's a bloated, badly performed, badly written mess of an album by a band at a very confused point in their lives and careers. There are 2 or 3 songs I don't (or didn't) mind, but it doesn't come close to even the weakest of their other albums.
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BB&S and TJK are so much better than anything SA has to offer. That alone basically ends the DM vs. SA argument for me aside from the fact that it only gets to be an even greater divide when you compare the entirety of them toe-to-toe.
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St. Anger might've been fine if they just went in and banged it out, but they beat that thing to death, and it sounds anything but spontaneous.
Completely this.
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I was gonna say that the problem with St. Anger was that it had 4 minute songs stretched out to 7-8 minute songs, but then I realized that's also the case on Death Magnetic, and probably even worse there.
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I was gonna say that the problem with St. Anger was that it had 4 minute songs stretched out to 7-8 minute songs, but then I realized that's also the case on Death Magnetic, and probably even worse there.
Pretty true. I'm not sure which is worse; St Anger was padded out with repetitive verses and riffing with no leads, and on DM the songs were padded out with very poorly performed instrumental sections with sloppy guitar solos.
I think it's worse on Death Magnetic, because several of those songs could have easily been great shorter songs recapturing the concise style of TBA, instead of bloated failed attempts at recapturing MoP/AJFA. They were trying too hard to do something they're not really capable of any more, rather than playing to their strengths.
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They haven't been playing to their strengths since about 2002.
James should stop trying to increase his upper range and stick to the low register singing / growl that he's so good at.
The high note at the end of "Hate Train" just sounds so forced and out of place where a low trademark Hetfield growl would have fitted perfectly there.
About the only thing that's good about the band anymore is James overall guitar playing and Rob's bass playing.
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Rob is the best musician in the band and also the one you hear the least on albums due to bad production :facepalm:
EDIT: It's been posted before, but deserved a repost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nclXtEqf3e0
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Rob is the best musician in the band and also the one you hear the least on albums due to bad production :facepalm:
There's that video on Youtube of him playing flamenco guitar and he could easily be the lead guitarist in the band.
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There's that video on Youtube of him playing flamenco guitar and he could easily be the lead guitarist in the band.
I edited my post while you wrote this :lol
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:hifive: It's a great video. Kirk looks worried :lol
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Who put that video up ? a 5 yr old ? :lol those annotations are awful.
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I think the production and sound of Death Magnetic also hampered it. It just sounds so thin and weak. Lars hitting the drums sounds literally like if I were to bang on some tin lids. It just sounds very thin and hollow, and there's no crunch to the guitars, nothing that's "in your face". It just sounds very bland.
I know some people might say similar things about their classic albums, but those albums are very much a product of their time. It would be interesting if their next album had a really heavy sound to it, instead of paper thin & weak.
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Their Ronnie Rising medley proves the can still bring the chunk when needed.
The next album needs to sound AT LEAST as good as that.
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Next album?
:neverusethis:
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Well they are in the studio now demoing songs. I do think it will be out before TOOL as well.
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https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/upcoming_releases/metallica_finally_working_on_a_new_album_trujillo_says.html
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Reminds me of when Rob said " We have about 5 or 6 songs written and 2011 will be all about the new album "
- which he said in 2010.
Then they promised they'd be working on the new album for " all of 2014 "
- which they then changed to " September 2014 ".
Then whilst promoting Through The Never in September 2013 - Lars repeatedly said " we're going to focus on the new album immediately after this film is released "
They then started it in September 2014 - a year later.
:lol I'll listen to it when it comes out but i'm not really bothered.
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Their Ronnie Rising medley proves the can still bring the chunk when needed.
The next album needs to sound AT LEAST as good as that.
I finally listened to the Ronnie Rising Medley. I was actually disappointed with it. I'd rather hear them cover a whole song. They were out of Light In The Black way too early, plus Tarot Woman is one of my least favorite Rainbow tracks. The performance was just OK IMO.
What they did with Stargazer pales in comparison to Dream Theater's version.
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I enjoy it. The guitar sound is back and James singing is top notch.
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https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/band_re-records_metallicas_st_anger_from_scratch_offers_2015_edition_of_controversial_album.html
"Band Re-Records Metallica's 'St. Anger' From Scratch, Offers 2015 Edition of Controversial Album"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU-UI3_6HcM
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That link tricked me. I thought they meant the band METALLICA re-recorded St Anger. What should anyone care if someone else re-records it?
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What should anyone care if someone else re-records it?
Pretty much. It sounds pretty awesome but I don't get the point of it.
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No thanks. St Anger is perfectly fine the way it is.
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I agree, but Bob Rock should be ashamed knowing a garage-band could do a much better production-job than him.
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Still not interested.
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St Anger is perfectly fine the way it is.
said no one ever, amirite?!
Nah jk, really I don't mind St. Anger at all.
Anyone who can't stand it should really give Some Kind of Monster a watch, it really puts it all in perspective and gives you a better appreciation for the album. I've read James saying that he considers St. Anger a soundtrack to the movie, which is a good way of thinking about it - if not extremely cop-outey.
I agree, but Bob Rock should be ashamed knowing a garage-band could do a much better production-job than him.
The whole point of the album is to sound 'raw', and 'like a band going into the garage for the first time - only the band is Metallica' (to quote SKOM). The shit production is pretty much keeping in with the mission statement for the album.
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Anyone who can't stand it should really give Some Kind of Monster a watch, it really puts it all in perspective and gives you a better appreciation for the album. I've read James saying that he considers St. Anger a soundtrack to the movie, which is a good way of thinking about it - if not extremely cop-outey.
Some Kind of Monster just made the album even more of a joke to me. That whole period was just sad.
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I think its such an interesting insight into the headspace that ultimately churned out the album - even though it's pretty sub-par by Metallica standards. Being able to see firsthand the stories behind the actual songs on the album just makes it all the more fascinating for me, it kinda excuses the fact that the album blows goats compared to their earlier output.
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I agree, but Bob Rock should be ashamed knowing a garage-band could do a much better production-job than him.
The whole point of the album is to sound 'raw', and 'like a band going into the garage for the first time - only the band is Metallica' (to quote SKOM). The shit production is pretty much keeping in with the mission statement for the album.
i know that, but it still sounded like shit :lol
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The whole point of the album is to sound 'raw', and 'like a band going into the garage for the first time - only the band is Metallica' (to quote SKOM). The shit production is pretty much keeping in with the mission statement for the album.
"Raw" would imply a lack of production while St. Anger is actually overproduced. It's the very opposite of "raw".
I understand the band's intention, I just think they failed at making a raw album.
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ROFL this is actually rather enjoyable. I've listened to Frantic and I haven't turned it off, which is already a major improvement over the original. I might actually get this if available to put it in my IPod.
On a similar note, is there any remastering or re-whatever of St. Anger like there is for Death Magnetic? I think I would give a listen or two to a version without the trashcan drums if there is one.
EDIT: uhhhh the singing in St Anger (the song) in this video is rather poor... Frantic was way better.
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Their version of My World is pretty good.
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I love the original, so I don't "need" this per se, but it's still an amazing tribute.
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I think its such an interesting insight into the headspace that ultimately churned out the album - even though it's pretty sub-par by Metallica standards. Being able to see firsthand the stories behind the actual songs on the album just makes it all the more fascinating for me, it kinda excuses the fact that the album blows goats compared to their earlier output.
No it doesn't. I get that bands put out a weak album from time to time, but St. Anger, and the Some Kind Of Monster film are embarrassing.
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I disagree. I think Some Kind of Monster is probably one of the more fascinating music documentaries I've seen. Considering all the amount of problems the band had and all the different struggles, I'm not surprised St. Anger came out the way it did. I also can't help but wonder if the bad experiences surrounding St. Anger is one of the major reasons why the band has only put out 2 albums in the last 15 years. Death Magnetic took them 5 years, and it has been 7 years since DM came out, with no signs of a new album on the horizon.
Also, while St. Anger is pretty bad, I would probably rather listen to it than Death Magnetic tbh. If I had a gun to my head.
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That's fine. But I feel that Some Kind Of Monster paints the band in such a bad light, it "almost" undermines the credibility of their classic albums.
It just simply cannot be the same band. Sometime in the early 90's the band lost all creativity and credibility IMO.
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That's fine. But I feel that Some Kind Of Monster paints the band in such a bad light, it "almost" undermines the credibility of their classic albums.
That's why I never watched the movie , lest it have that effect on me.
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That's fine. But I feel that Some Kind Of Monster paints the band in such a bad light, it "almost" undermines the credibility of their classic albums.
That's why I never watched the movie , lest it have that effect on me.
I'd like to give them high marks for courage for exposing themselves, but they come off as such babbling idiots, they seem so clueless about how weak they look.
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They come across in the movie as self-centred, out-of-touch millionaire rock stars.
It didn't affect my opinion of their music though, even St. Anger, because I think I always pictured them that way to at least some degree anyway.
And it's really interesting to see the band disintegrating before your eyes and then have to try to put the pieces together again. It's probably the most intimately documented collapse of a band of their stature in history.
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It's probably the most intimately documented collapse of a band of their stature in history.
It's unprecedented.
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This was actually the first time I ever listened to this album in full. I've heard a song or two and bits and pieces of others, but it sounded so bad I never bothered listening to the whole thing. Aside from the ridiculously stupid lyrics, this was rather enjoyable. The music moreso than anything else. It's a shame it took another band covering this album to make it listenable. I probably wont listen again, but if it's made available, I'll archive it incase I change my mind.
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That link tricked me. I thought they meant the band METALLICA re-recorded St Anger. What should anyone care if someone else re-records it?
Coz this is the closest you'll ever get to a decent recording ever ?
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That's fine. But I feel that Some Kind Of Monster paints the band in such a bad light, it "almost" undermines the credibility of their classic albums.
That's why I never watched the movie , lest it have that effect on me.
I'd like to give them high marks for courage for exposing themselves, but they come off as such babbling idiots, they seem so clueless about how weak they look.
I don't get how it could undermine the credibility of their earlier albums - I would not expect the guys to be in the same space they were when they were young men. That they look 'weak' is a positive thing, I think. I wouldn't want to watch a documentary about a bunch of chest-beating assholes - besides, being able to admit their weaknesses is the whole reason James was able to turn his life around, so how could that weakness ever be considered a bad thing?
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It's like when David Beckham opens his mouth - ruins the image ;D
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I'm rather enjoying the cover version of the St Anger album. It's pretty nicely done, and the singer does a great job of replicating James. This is definitely making the music much more enjoyable to listen to. Doesn't fix the issues I have with the song writing, but it's already a lot better!
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That's fine. But I feel that Some Kind Of Monster paints the band in such a bad light, it "almost" undermines the credibility of their classic albums.
That's why I never watched the movie , lest it have that effect on me.
I'd like to give them high marks for courage for exposing themselves, but they come off as such babbling idiots, they seem so clueless about how weak they look.
I don't get how it could undermine the credibility of their earlier albums - I would not expect the guys to be in the same space they were when they were young men. That they look 'weak' is a positive thing, I think. I wouldn't want to watch a documentary about a bunch of chest-beating assholes - besides, being able to admit their weaknesses is the whole reason James was able to turn his life around, so how could that weakness ever be considered a bad thing?
Well I quoted almost. I mean, such a statement should be ridiculous, but I'll say that since 1991, or when The Black Album came out, we've gone 24 years with absolutely nothing to show for it, other than four sub par albums and now they are relegated to Greatest Hits tours. They've spent 2/3 of their career absolutely sucking. So while you can never take their first 4 or 5 albums away from them, their career ends up being completely watered down.
I actually do admire them for being so brutally honest with SKOM, but I also feel that it is so down right embarrassing, to this listener, I'm flabbergasted with them.
To do a Top 10 Band list, I could never put Metallica on it, unless I quantified it as Pre TBA Metallica. I have the same issue with Rush.
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That link tricked me. I thought they meant the band METALLICA re-recorded St Anger. What should anyone care if someone else re-records it?
Coz this is the closest you'll ever get to a decent recording ever ?
You can't polish a turd. As long as it's St Anger, I'm not listening to it.
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I finally listened to the Ronnie Rising Medley. I was actually disappointed with it. I'd rather hear them cover a whole song. They were out of Light In The Black way too early, plus Tarot Woman is one of my least favorite Rainbow tracks. The performance was just OK IMO.
What they did with Stargazer pales in comparison to Dream Theater's version.
And what DT did pales in comparison. Some things are just better left alone.
Still, I've got no problem with the Metallica Medley. I think Met. is a fantastic cover band and this is all just fine. Part of me does agree that LitB should have been the bulk of it rather than just the intro, though. When DT did Stargazer I was happy they took a different approach to the ending rather than trampling all over the original. I've kind of got the same feeling about Lars Ulrich defiling Cozy Powell in Light in the Black. There's a real precision to what Cozy was doing there that I'd just as soon not hear shit upon.
As for StAnger15 I think it's an improvement. It's interesting to actually hear some of what they were up to where you couldn't before. I never really thought the songs were that bad; just the CD. The accompanying DVD of them playing it in the rehearsal space was actually really cool.
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I'm not listening to any of their albums for the reason you said.
Eat it Metallica fans! :lol
I just never liked them. Single songs are ok but I just can't do a full album.
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There's a real precision to what Cozy was doing there
Yes there was.
The accompanying DVD of them playing it in the rehearsal space was actually really cool.
I agree.
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To do a Top 10 Band list, I could never put Metallica on it, unless I quantified it as Pre TBA Metallica. I have the same issue with Rush.
I think the difference with Rush is that, even if you think the quality of their work dropped at some point, you have to at least give them credit for continuing to produce new music at an acceptable rate and being enthusiastic about that music. Since 1990 they have done six albums to Metallica's five despite taking that long hiatus in the middle, they play the crap out their new songs live, and a lot of their newer songs are now concert staples. Metallica seem almost ashamed of their post-1991 work (and some would say they should be :lol).
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Yes, all true, especially about their live choices. But still, they only have ONE more album than Metallica??
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Yes, all true, especially about their live choices. But still, they only have ONE more album than Metallica??
They're also a decade older than Metallica. So really it should be comparing Metallica's 1990-Present, to Rush's 1980-2005, which was much more impressive (11 albums and an EP).
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Metallica seem almost ashamed of their post-1991 work (and some would say they should be :lol).
Nope. The only reason people disregard Reload, Load and sometimes Metallica is that the band didn't put out And Justice For All over and over.
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Metallica seem almost ashamed of their post-1991 work (and some would say they should be :lol).
Nope. The only reason people disregard Reload, Load and sometimes Metallica is that the band didn't put out And Justice For All over and over.
In fairness, there are people who don't like those albums for legitimate reasons. I really enjoy Load, but I also think it's a little long. I think that if it was trimmed by three or four tracks it would be as good as anything they've done.
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I've said it before and will say it again - people just lump Load & Reload in with St. Anger as being the "shit' albums whereas Load and Reload are
both pretty good ROCK albums. People act like they're virtually unlistenable but they have some of the band's best work on them like :
• Bleeding Me
• Outlaw Torn
• Hero Of The Day
• King Nothing
• Carpe Diem baby
• Where the Wild Things Are
• F.i.x.x.x.e.r
And the lyrics on Load are amongst Hetfield's best.
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I haven't seen anyone lump in Load as being one of the shit albums in a long time, I think its aged incredibly well and most people appreciate them as being good - just nowhere near as good as the old stuff. Re-Load I cant do tho, besides Fuel and Memory Remains.
I do think they fumbled it by making two albums, it would be an awesome single album if they'd just trimmed some of the fat.
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Agreed. i even think it would have made a brilliant " ballady " album with this track list :
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1505170_1567017953555047_5954013483603704762_n.jpg?oh=13c21f49692b99c1a212f0800508811f&oe=5534F6FD&__gda__=1429551941_9f9c9d282a7e1bda2e3f1367095bd968)
That comes to a smidge under 70 minutes.
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King Nothing is such a bloody amazing song. One of my favourites.
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King Nothing is such a bloody amazing song. One of my favourites.
Yep it's really great. Such a groove.
*Listens*
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Load and Reload should not be involved in any discussions about the worst Metallica album, whereas St. Anger and Death Magnetic should.
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Load and Reload should not be involved in any discussions about the worst Metallica album, whereas St. Anger and Death Magnetic should.
Quite.
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I'm glad Metallica didn't try doing AJFA over and over again. Despite being a good album, you can tell that they weren't going to be able to take that sound much further. With that said, the direction thy went in just doesn't appeal to me. I respect what they did, but it wasn't for me. I enjoy Death Magnetic but the songs are way too bloated. It's a strange album; there are fragments of songs that I like but there isn't one song on there I enjoy all the way through. If they can trim the fat and have a well produced album I think I'll be happy.
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trim the fat
Clearly something the band is unable to do...
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I really like Load and Reload, but i agree, if they trimmed it a bit into a single album it would be much better.
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Enjoying the cover re-recording of St.Anger. Some songs like Purify and the title track are still crap but songs like Some Kind of Monster or Dirty Window really improve a lot and become a lot more enjoyable.
Load has aged well for me, Reload not so much. As years pass by Reload seems more and more pointless to me. Should've been released as a double album/or released some of the songs into an EP. But no, they had to fill the gaps on the albums with songs like "Better than You"
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So I'm listening to Load for the first time ever (besides the singles) and it's not bad I guess. Not sure it's going to have very much replay value, but I'm trying to create a playlist featuring songs from both Load and Reload. I shall call it............................. Loaded.... Because they had to have been loaded to make these albums am I right? :neverusethis:
I remember my older brother being so disappointed when Load came out. He was calling them country and complaining that they cut their hair. Those were simpler times.
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Load has a handful of really good tunes, but it just pales in comparison to the albums that came before it (giving the benefit of the doubt to KEA, which I am not overly fond of, except for a few songs). One problem with Load, too, is this was right around the time period where bands really tried packing as much music as they could on to a single CD, and Metallica did that here. Chuck 4-5 of the below average tunes from Load and make it only 9-10 songs total and it'd be a lot better overall.
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Load has a handful of really good tunes, but it just pales in comparison to the albums that came before it (giving the benefit of the doubt to KEA, which I am not overly fond of, except for a few songs). One problem with Load, too, is this was right around the time period where bands really tried packing as much music as they could on to a single CD, and Metallica did that here. Chuck 4-5 of the below average tunes from Load and make it only 9-10 songs total and it'd be a lot better overall.
I completely agree.
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Whenever I see the “Trim Load” or the “Combine Load and Reload” talk play out, as much as everyone can agree there’s too much there, the lists of what people would keep and throw vary.
I mean, right off the bat, I’d probably chuck King Nothing, just lauded three posts up as one of their best songs.
I have a good feeling most people would biff Mama Said because oh yuck, it’s country, when that is one of my favourites on Load, and one of my favourite Metallica songs.
And Fuel is one of the worst songs by any band I listen to at all, but I think most people might keep that.
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I like Mama Said, as well as Low Man's Lyrics from ReLoad. I don't hate Fuel, but it comes off to me as big dumb metal song, kind of like Ain't My Bitch. Both are okay on a superficial level, but I don't listen to Metallica that much in general, and when I do, I'm not going for those tunes.
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I would definitely ditch Cure, Poor Twisted Me and Ronnie.
I can actually listen to every song on Reload. Even Better Than You which most people hate.
Attitude & Prince Charming are good too.
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I don't listen to Metallica that much in general, and when I do ........................
(https://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/i-dont-always-listen-to-metallica.jpg)
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For the record, this is my Load/Reload mix. Scraps the "big dumb metal song" intro tracks of Fuel and Ain't My Bitch, as Kev put it, and I think the Marianne Faithful outro on Memory Remains gives it a cool touch as the opening track. Scraps the lackluster singles clogging up the first half of Load, and replaces the average trio of harder tracks after Bleeding Me (Cure, Wasting My Hate, Poor Twisted Me) with Devil's Dance. Ronnie and Carpe Diem aren't bad, but they stretch the running time too far for too little gain. This is still 64 minutes, after all.
Memory Remains
2 x 4
The House That Jack Built
Hero of the Day
Bleeding Me
Devil's Dance
Mama Said
The Thorn Within
Low Man's Lyric
The Outlaw Torn
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i'm on board with basically any Re/Load mix that includes "Fixxxer" and the 'unencumbered by manufacturing restrictions' full-length version of "The Outlaw Torn" (do people know that exists? are you automatically using that one in these mixes? once i heard it, i basically decided to ignore they ever faded it out in favour of keeping one of the crap filler songs on the record! what a horrid decision!)
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I'd keep Ain't My Bitch, 2x4, Until it Sleeps, King Nothing, Hero of the Day, Bleeding Me, Fuel, The Memory Remains, Devil's Dance, Unforgiven II, Slither, ditch the rest. Still far from perfect, but that would be a great album, rather than a bunch of great tracks spread across two albums of filler.
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a lot of people don't like Ronnie, it'd probably make the cut for me, tbh.
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I would definitely ditch Cure, Poor Twisted Me and Ronnie.
Agree with Cure and Ronnie, but I think I'd keep Poor Twisted Me.
Cure is such an annoying song. It has a great groove and cool riff, but the chorus is so utterly terrible. :(
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The hate towards Ronnie makes me :sadpanda:
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a lot of people don't like Ronnie, it'd probably make the cut for me, tbh.
The hate towards Ronnie makes me :sadpanda:
autofriends <3
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I don't hate it, I don't think it's all that good.
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a lot of people don't like Ronnie, it'd probably make the cut for me, tbh.
The hate towards Ronnie makes me :sadpanda:
autofriends <3
I loved that tune 20 years ago on release and I still do today. In fact, once I got over the image change and the musical direction, I thought Load was rather a good album.
As others have said, ReLoad felt a bit unnecessary. In fact, it's the only album I've listened to on release where I was so bored I felt compelled to do something else instead, rather than listen and absorb.
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My Loaded playlist (not in order)
2 x 4
Until It Sleeps
King Nothing
Hero Of the Day
Mama Said
The Outlaw Thorn
The Memory Remains
Unforgiven 2
Where The Wild Things Are
Low Man´s Lyric
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My Loaded playlist:
Disc 1: Load
Disc 2: Reload minus Better Than You and Bad Seed
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So I'm listening to some of S&M.... I guess after that concert was when Lars stopped giving a fuck, eh?
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And James... If you do a youtube search for the S&M isolated vocals then you get to hear the ultimate use of pitch correction this side of Cher.
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And James... If you do a youtube search for the S&M isolated vocals then you get to hear the ultimate use of pitch correction this side of Cher.
I can hear the pitch correction far too obviously even in the final mix. I'd be curious to hear the isolated vocals, but I'm not sure my ears could handle it undiluted. :lol
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So I'm listening to some of S&M.... I guess after that concert was when Lars stopped giving a fuck, eh?
No it was in 2004. The sloppiest Metallica have ever sounded live.
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So I'm listening to some of S&M.... I guess after that concert was when Lars stopped giving a fuck, eh?
No it was in 2004. The sloppiest Metallica have ever sounded live.
So St. Anger really screwed them up huh? Maybe Jason was their super glue. I was really impressed with Lars on S&M. I believe he's fallen so far. James... well I've never liked his new style of singing.
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A lot of people say that Lars is a bad drummer, but personally I disagree. I would say he is a fine drummer, he's just lazy. He's not a top tier drummer by any means, but he is a solid/capable drummer, who could be considered one of the better ones if he put down some more time practicing and tried to expand his knowledge, but he just seems kinda lazy. He's sticking to the same routines as he did in the 80s without much exploration or variation.
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A lot of people say that Lars is a bad drummer, but personally I disagree. I would say he is a fine drummer, he's just lazy. He's not a top tier drummer by any means, but he is a solid/capable drummer, who could be considered one of the better ones if he put down some more time practicing and tried to expand his knowledge, but he just seems kinda lazy. He's sticking to the same routines as he did in the 80s without much exploration or variation.
I'd say he was a good drummer back in the '80s into the '90s, but he's really not good these days, despite improving recently.
The main reason the songs don't fall apart half the time is because the band is used to him performing them consistently wrong. He can't count out the timing on many of the basic fills, and most of the transitions out of his fills are extremely sloppy. It's like he doesn't have a basic understanding of timing beyond the basic beats, and he plays everything too far beyond studio tempos to the point that it loses the tightness that makes those songs sound their best. If they played to a click, he could probably be pretty decent, but he can't be relied on for timing.
I really like his drumming on everything before St Anger, but he's the biggest liability in the band, and even on Death Magnetic, a studio recording, the songs sound like they're going to trainwreck every time they attempt an instrumental section.
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I agree, but isn't his decline mostly due to him not practicing or being interested in improving? He has gotten sloppier though. I remember reading something about him changing his drumming for Load/ReLoad to fit the albums better, and it's like he never really recovered after that. His drumming on S&M was pretty good as far as I remember, but St. Anger and Death Magnetic is a whole different topic.
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and he plays everything too far beyond studio tempos to the point that it loses the tightness that makes those songs sound their best.
I don't think that's just his fault, I think the band likes playing the songs that fast. Personally I don't like it at all!
I agree, but isn't his decline mostly due to him not practicing or being interested in improving?
Well, sure, but how else would someone get good or bad? Would you say that I'm not a bad drummer either, I just don't practice and in fact haven't learned to play drums in the first place?
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and he plays everything too far beyond studio tempos to the point that it loses the tightness that makes those songs sound their best.
I don't think that's just his fault, I think the band likes playing the songs that fast. Personally I don't like it at all!
For that genre, they probably do like playing the songs faster with more intensity. Ultimately it is Ulrich who sets the tempo though, and it is too fast for me, so I'll just stick to blaming him anyway. :biggrin:
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Lars *playing* on St. Anger > his playing on Death Magnetic.
But they both have terrible drum sounds.
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The drums on St. Anger sounds like him banging on big oil barrels, and the drums on Death Magnetic sounds like him banging on tin pot lids. Either way the drumming itself is sloppy and bad on both albums.
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I disagree about his playing on St Anger - he was on fire. Especially on the studio DVD. The very last remnants of "OLD" Lars.
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I'm no fan of St Anger, but if you ignore the drum sound, the playing isn't too bad. I can't recall anything as sloppy s on DM. Then again, it has been a while since I've listened to SA.
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https://bravewords.com/news/metallica-frontman-james-hetfield-in-ted-bundy-thriller-extremely-wicked-shockingly-evil-and-vile-first-photo-revealed
Holy crap does Zac Efron look like Ted Bundy.
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Metallica is awarded the Polar Music Prize 2018.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yfzg7T1k-Y
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Metallica posted their performance of Orion from Italy on Cliff's birthday. It is a really good. Kirk gets a tad sloppy but Rob really shines.
The guys did great. Just an excellent performance of one of my all-time favorite instrumentals.
https://youtu.be/iL42fwM5muE
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So I'm listening to some of S&M.... I guess after that concert was when Lars stopped giving a fuck, eh?
And Kirk. It has the laziest rendition of the Enter Sandman solo recorded in a live album.
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Metallica posted their performance of Orion from Italy on Cliff's birthday. It is a really good. Kirk gets a tad sloppy but Rob really shines.
The guys did great. Just an excellent performance of one of my all-time favorite instrumentals.
https://youtu.be/iL42fwM5muE
Yea, really good performance. Jason will always be "the" bass player in Metallica for me but Rob is a fantastic player for sure.
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I'm behind the thread a little bit, and I'm not a hardcore Metallica fan, so take this for what it is, but...
- When I hear the "Load/Reload should be one concise album" talk, I don't think about cutting tunes, but I do think about perhaps having two discs that are like "light and shade" or something. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the new James singing (as opposed to the isolated yell with tons of echo on it) and I LOVE LOVE LOVE the sort of expansion beyond pure thrash (number one on my musical wish list is a solo album by James that emphasizes his love of Skynyrd and outlaw country). What I hate is how some of the music just seems like a collection of random songs as opposed to a cohesive album.
- When I hear the talk about "LAZY", I think the only place it really shines for me is with Kirk. I still feel like James is the coolest guy in rock, so I'm fine with that, and frankly, I don't listen to Metallica to hear Neal Peart or Bill Bruford. I can only recount - yet again - that episode of Later... with Jools Holland that I told in the "Metallica v. Iron Maiden" thread. No one in that audience - a CLEARLY non-metal crowd - gave even a half a fuck about whether Lars was blurring his blast beats or whatever the terminology is.
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Awesome performance of Orion! Reminds me of how good of a track that still is. Great.
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-to-announce-2018-north-american-tour-on-monday/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-to-announce-2018-north-american-tour-on-monday/)
An arena tour of NA sounds pretty cool!
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-to-announce-2018-north-american-tour-on-monday/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-to-announce-2018-north-american-tour-on-monday/)
An arena tour of NA sounds pretty cool!
Yeah that would be great, looking forward to the announcement!
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Looking forward to it as well. Hopefully they are swinging by somewhere close.
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Oh hell yes, in for any and all NJ/NYC shows :metal
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This is what I was waiting for. And Arena venue. much better sound
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Oh hell yes, in for any and all NJ/NYC shows :metal
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I just got the Master of Puppets remastered vinyl and it actually sounds a lot punchier and clearer than my original CD. Definitely worth the purchase.
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Oh hell yes, in for any and all NJ/NYC shows :metal
hmmm, this list of cities didn't include a NYC/NJ show https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-here-is-a-list-of-all-cities-and-venues-teasing-2018-north-american-tour/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-here-is-a-list-of-all-cities-and-venues-teasing-2018-north-american-tour/). Let's hope for one though since thats hopefully not the full list. They did list a University Park PA date which I would totally love to go to since a trip to my Alma Mater is something I'd love to do.
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Damn, no Metallica dates within 3.5 hours of NYC. This isn't supposed to happen to us :lol Maybe I'll use them as an excuse for a Vegas trip :hat
It is cool that they're visiting some places they haven't been to since the 80s.
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Im trying to find out my friends wedding date which I think is in October, but if it's not that weekend, October 20th at Penn State while there's an away football game seems like a really fun weekend to me.
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Pittsburgh show! :metal
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Im trying to find out my friends wedding date which I think is in October, but if it's not that weekend, October 20th at Penn State while there's an away football game seems like a really fun weekend to me.
I was also considering trying to talk friends into maybe making that trip.
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Im trying to find out my friends wedding date which I think is in October, but if it's not that weekend, October 20th at Penn State while there's an away football game seems like a really fun weekend to me.
I was also considering trying to talk friends into maybe making that trip.
It's a simple (but long) drive down route 80. The decision is fairly easy to me, I love going back to visit Penn State's campus. However, hotel rooms seem really expensive that weekend, as if there was a home football game. My friend's wedding isn't that week so I'm good, but debating about wether I'd rather just go there during a football weekend for a game instead.
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It is so awesome that they are taking the road less traveled. Happy for fans getting shows close to their home venues.
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Coming to Charlotte so I'm definitely going
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Picked up a couple of GA floor tickets for the State College PA show. I'm not entirely sure I'll go at this point, but wanted to scoop them up while I can. I just hate the hotel situation out there right now for that date, but I really want to be there.
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Picked up a couple of GA floor tickets for the State College PA show. I'm not entirely sure I'll go at this point, but wanted to scoop them up while I can. I just hate the hotel situation out there right now for that date, but I really want to be there.
Do you mind me asking how much you paid for floor tickets?
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Picked up a couple of GA floor tickets for the State College PA show. I'm not entirely sure I'll go at this point, but wanted to scoop them up while I can. I just hate the hotel situation out there right now for that date, but I really want to be there.
Do you mind me asking how much you paid for floor tickets?
DATE ITEM DELIVERY METHOD QTY PRICE (USD)
Sat Oct 20 2018
7:30 PM
Metallica
General Admission All Ages
Bryce Jordan Center, University Park, PA USPS First Class Mail
$2.99 2 $135.00
Item Total: $270.00
Service Fees: $31.90
Delivery $2.99
Total Charge $304.89
Not cheap, but cheaper than the Metlife Stadium show last year for a much better ticket. I can't complain about this price to be on the floor for Metallica.
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Gotcha, thanks. I've been trying to get tickets for the Pittsburgh show through the fanclub pre-sale but I keep getting a message saying tickets are unavailable. Not sure if the allocated amount for pre-sale has already sold out or what.
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Darn. A friend just told me about tickets today and those prices are not what close to what I'm willing to pay. Guess I'll never see them :(
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Darn. A friend just told me about tickets today and those prices are not what close to what I'm willing to pay. Guess I'll never see them :(
There were tickets much cheaper, I think 65 before fees.
Gotcha, thanks. I've been trying to get tickets for the Pittsburgh show through the fanclub pre-sale but I keep getting a message saying tickets are unavailable. Not sure if the allocated amount for pre-sale has already sold out or what.
Yea they are probably gone. I got that my first few attempts then it put me in a timed queue for 3 minutes, when it ended I had the floor tickets so I just snatched them. I was actually first trying to get the cheaper tickets and this was at 11am on the dot.
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Listening to the Black Album which I haven't done for sometime and it's interesting when I think about the fact that it's probably the single one metal album I listened to the most through my life. I know we're all at diffrent ages so anyone older or younger than me obviously have a diffrent time perspective but to me it's pretty cool that i've listened to this album and songs since 1993 when I at 11 discovered Metallica and metal in general, can't believe that's 25 years ago. Even though Maiden is a much bigger and important band to me, this album still holds a special place for me. Dosen't mean it's my favourite album by theirs but I think you know what i'm getting at.
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Listening to the Black Album which I haven't done for sometime and it's interesting when I think about the fact that it's probably the single one metal album I listened to the most through my life. I know we're all at diffrent ages so anyone older or younger than me obviously have a diffrent time perspective but to me it's pretty cool that i've listened to this album and songs since 1993 when I at 11 discovered Metallica and metal in general, can't believe that's 25 years ago. Even though Maiden is a much bigger and important band to me, this album still holds a special place for me. Dosen't mean it's my favourite album by theirs but I think you know what i'm getting at.
I totally get where you are coming from. I was 8 when The Black Album came out and my older brother (who got me into metal) was 16. I have vivid memories of us sitting at the kitchen table, drawing lots of fantasy art and listening to TBA. He really played that album to death, for about 3 years, but I just wasn't really into music at that stage. It was just always on in the background, seeping into my DNA. I only really remember knowing the song 'Sad But True' at that time because when my brother was taking the piss out of me, he'd say I was sad but true (and sing it James Hetfield style) :lol
As I got older and my brother moved onto other stuff and I kind of forgot about Metallica. Then in about 2001 I was working my first job, I was 18, and listened pretty much to rap music (although I was getting into to some pop punk stuff). There was a guy I used to work with who was in his early 30s at the time. We had similar tastes in rap music and we'd stick CDs on at work. One day he bought in TBA and blasted it out (he just put it on, he didn't tell me what he was putting on). I was just like "I know all of these songs, what the fuck is this??". I went out and bought TBA as soon as I could and the rest is history. I pretty much binged Metallica for like 6 months straight and never went back to listening to rap music :lol
Within the next few years I made a load of new friends, who were mostly metalheads (or into punk rock, which I also love). For the majority of us (and countless others of my generation, or any generation for that matter) TBA was THE gateway album for metal. It just has something that makes the inner metalhead in you sit up and go "What the fuck is THIS??". It may also be my most listened to album of all time. I now work with teenagers who have come from abusive backgrounds and I often explain to them how important music can be, and is to me, as a way of dealing with issues in your life. Most of the young people I work only want to listen to the popular rap/pop stuff that's in the charts (which is obviously fine, if it's what they want) but a few are definitely more alternative in what they look for in music. TBA is generally the album I recommend to these kids as it's kinda perfect. If they dig it then you know that metal is going to become their life!
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Really cool video about one of James' new guitars -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9LfzWTaLQ
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Ugh. That and his other Ken Lawrence guitar are my favorite guitars ever. I'd murder Stadler for one.
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Ugh. That and his other Ken Lawrence guitar are my favorite guitars ever. I'd murder Stadler for one.
I disagree with this
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Ugh. That and his other Ken Lawrence guitar are my favorite guitars ever. I'd murder Stadler for one.
I disagree with this
:lol
Good call on the Ken Lawrence guitars Adami, those things are works of art.
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Great story behind that guitar. Thanks for sharing the vid.
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Just wanted to say that the isolated vocal track from Fuel is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've ever heard :lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExmfjrQ3ik0
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Listening to the Black Album which I haven't done for sometime and it's interesting when I think about the fact that it's probably the single one metal album I listened to the most through my life. I know we're all at diffrent ages so anyone older or younger than me obviously have a diffrent time perspective but to me it's pretty cool that i've listened to this album and songs since 1993 when I at 11 discovered Metallica and metal in general, can't believe that's 25 years ago. Even though Maiden is a much bigger and important band to me, this album still holds a special place for me. Dosen't mean it's my favourite album by theirs but I think you know what i'm getting at.
I was getting over a girl ditching me to go out of town to college in 92, I listened to Justice a lot (yes, on a walkman!) to numb the pain. That's when I really got into the band.
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They covered When doves cry
https://youtu.be/FgQ57Gv7W7k?t=2
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They covered When doves cry
https://youtu.be/FgQ57Gv7W7k?t=2
I tapped out a little less than two minutes in, that was godawful.
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They covered When doves cry
https://youtu.be/FgQ57Gv7W7k?t=2
"they" is a lose term here.
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The AJFA box set - https://www.metallica.com/store/and-justice-for-all-remastered-deluxe/REAJFADLX.html?cgid=Featured#start=1
(https://www.metallica.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-Metallica-Library/default/dw29dc968a/images/blog/news/ajfa-dlx-box-set-news.jpg)
Boom. Ordered. I for one consider it to be a steal at $199 (came out to 236 with tax and shipping). 11 CDs, 6 LPs, 4 DVD, a pushead print, and a 120-page hardcover book of unseen Ross Halfin pics, and a bunch of extra stuff? Yeah, I'll do that, thanks. And I like the fact there is a Rough Mixes CD of AJFA. Chances are, the "missing bass" is on that, which will be an interesting listen. And all the live stuff looks killer.
AJFA is my 3rd favorite record of all time (next to Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime and Fifth Angel's self-titled album), so this was a no-brainer. I was expecting it to be 299, and was prepared for it. But a hundred less than that made my day.
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The AJFA box set - https://www.metallica.com/store/and-justice-for-all-remastered-deluxe/REAJFADLX.html?cgid=Featured#start=1
(https://www.metallica.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-Metallica-Library/default/dw29dc968a/images/blog/news/ajfa-dlx-box-set-news.jpg)
Boom. Ordered. I for one consider it to be a steal at $199 (came out to 236 with tax and shipping). 11 CDs, 6 LPs, 4 DVD, a pushead print, and a 120-page hardcover book of unseen Ross Halfin pics, and a bunch of extra stuff? Yeah, I'll do that, thanks. And I like the fact there is a Rough Mixes CD of AJFA. Chances are, the "missing bass" is on that, which will be an interesting listen. And all the live stuff looks killer.
AJFA is my 3rd favorite record of all time (next to Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime and Fifth Angel's self-titled album), so this was a no-brainer. I was expecting it to be 299, and was prepared for it. But a hundred less than that made my day.
I really wish bands would stop releasing stuff like this that requires folks to buy vinyl albums in order to get all the cool extras. Why not throw in 6 8-tracks and jack up the price even more?!
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I think the thinking is, if you're willing to spend this much, you're probably a collector, and the vinyl is a must. For me, AJFA is my favorite Metallica record, and third favorite album of all-time. I wanted a set with all the vinyl, and the CDS and DVDs. There are a bunch of other lesser options for folks (a three-disc set is out there).
For me, the whole set looks killer, but the main thing is that CD of AJFA as a rough mix. Guarantee the bass is at a normal volume on that. But again, this huge set is mostly for people who must own everything Metallica puts out, or, you're like me, and this album is one on your Mount Rushmore. The perfect combination of thrash and progressive metal. How I WISH I was at the Metallica/Queensryche tour in 1988/1989. Mindcrime is my #1 album of all time, and AJFA is #3. I mean, there would have been NO BETTER tour.
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Well I guess that now is sealed that we’ll never have a proper remixed version of this album... that is really sad.
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Well I guess that now is sealed that we’ll never have a proper remixed version of this album... that is really sad.
Right. I listened to the remixed Dyers Eve and I don't think it sounds different at all.
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Well I guess that now is sealed that we’ll never have a proper remixed version of this album... that is really sad.
Right. I listened to the remixed Dyers Eve and I don't think it sounds different at all.
Remixed? You mean remastered? Or Demo version?
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Remastered. Nothing has been remixed.
The Dyers Eve track is a track they are giving away so people can hear it.
The only thing that could should a different mix would be the disc of Rough Mixes, which is only available in the limited edition box. (Sure to be uploaded to YouTube by someone. LOL)
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The Dyers Eve remaster actually sounded like it did have a little more bottom end to it, which is all you could really hope for with a remaster.
The box, as a whole, looks very impressive.
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The Dyers Eve remaster actually sounded like it did have a little more bottom end to it, which is all you could really hope for with a remaster.
The box, as a whole, looks very impressive.
I haven't listened to it. That's cool. I am not a musician, but from my understanding mastering is the process in which the volume level of the record is adjusted to that it is even throughout the recording. Perhaps the remaster was done in such a way that it favored the bottom end. (No idea, just speculating).
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The Seattle '89 concert is my favorite live show released by any band. So intense. I wish I could just order that portion of the set along with the rough mix/demos.
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I think the thinking is, if you're willing to spend this much, you're probably a collector, and the vinyl is a must. For me, AJFA is my favorite Metallica record, and third favorite album of all-time. I wanted a set with all the vinyl, and the CDS and DVDs. There are a bunch of other lesser options for folks (a three-disc set is out there).
For me, the whole set looks killer, but the main thing is that CD of AJFA as a rough mix. Guarantee the bass is at a normal volume on that. But again, this huge set is mostly for people who must own everything Metallica puts out, or, you're like me, and this album is one on your Mount Rushmore. The perfect combination of thrash and progressive metal. How I WISH I was at the Metallica/Queensryche tour in 1988/1989. Mindcrime is my #1 album of all time, and AJFA is #3. I mean, there would have been NO BETTER tour.
For me, vinyl is about as useful or desirable as reel to reel tapes (although I guess I could put the picture disc on a wall somewhere). I'd be a lot more likely to buy an identical set without the vinyl for...say $150 than to pay $200 for the set with the vinyl. And yeah, there's a 3 CD set for only $25, but it doesn't have most of the really cool stuff. Hell...they went to the trouble of making cassette (I guess for the folks who don't want whatever the alleged benefits of vinyl are OR the pristine sound of CDs).
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The Dyers Eve remaster actually sounded like it did have a little more bottom end to it, which is all you could really hope for with a remaster.
The box, as a whole, looks very impressive.
I haven't listened to it. That's cool. I am not a musician, but from my understanding mastering is the process in which the volume level of the record is adjusted to that it is even throughout the recording. Perhaps the remaster was done in such a way that it favored the bottom end. (No idea, just speculating).
You also add EQ (generally) to a Master. So you can add some low end EQ. It wouldn't actually raise the bass guitar level, but could add the bass frequencies.
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For me, vinyl is about as useful or desirable as reel to reel tapes (although I guess I could put the picture disc on a wall somewhere). I'd be a lot more likely to buy an identical set without the vinyl for...say $150 than to pay $200 for the set with the vinyl. And yeah, there's a 3 CD set for only $25, but it doesn't have most of the really cool stuff. Hell...they went to the trouble of making cassette (I guess for the folks who don't want whatever the alleged benefits of vinyl are OR the pristine sound of CDs).
Good point for sure. I'm a big vinyl guy these days, so it made sense for me. But you're right though. WIth them going so far as to do cassettes, it sorta sucks that they didn't do a vinyl-less bundle. Must be some business/profit margin reasons behind it all.
You also add EQ (generally) to a Master. So you can add some low end EQ. It wouldn't actually raise the bass guitar level, but could add the bass frequencies.
Ah ha! Ok, so some things that were inaudible before, may now come out of hiding (such as some of Jason's bass to a degree, potentially).
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So the Seattle show is LP only? That’s the show I was at! Both nights! It be great if I could at least have some lossless digital copy of it. I like vinyl, but I don’t want that to be the only way I can listen to it.
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I really wish bands would stop releasing stuff like this that requires folks to buy vinyl albums in order to get all the cool extras. Why not throw in 6 8-tracks and jack up the price even more?!
:lol
You know what I fucking hate? It's that they think they can soak their fans on this. No offence Samsara....
I mean, the 20 year olds that attended the Justice tour are now 50, and can likely afford a $199 trip down nostalgia lane.
I get it. If you don't want it, don't buy it.. I get it. But I don't care if they include a free blow job. It's still TWO HUNDRED FUCKING DOLLARS!
Here's two FREE pics from the second row in Worcester on March 16, 1989
(https://i.imgur.com/lOR6ryx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/q0FzJ7B.jpg)
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Yeah, but haven't you previously released those two photos here somewhere? :lol
Agree with everyone else. This is a MASSIVE missed opportunity. The album should have been remixed. Period. End of.
That said, I will buy the deluxe set (I'm part of the problem, I suppose) because it's actually rather good value. And I have the others. Yeah, I'm part of the problem.
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TAC....it's not just about the photos. This is 5 LPs, 1 picture disc, 11 CDs and 4 DVDs. Ask yourself how much those would cost if they were released on an individual basis. Honestly TAC, you CANNOT claim they aren't giving you $200 worth of material.
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TAC....it's not just about the photos. This is 5 LPs, 1 picture disc, 11 CDs and 4 DVDs. Ask yourself how much those would cost if they were released on an individual basis. Honestly TAC, you CANNOT claim they aren't giving you $200 worth of material.
I think my complaint is that this is the ONLY way to buy those things.
I really want those rough mixes. I do not want the rest of it. I'm screwed if I don't want to pay 200 dollars for essentially one album.
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I shudder to think what the local price will be for this, MoP box goes for $360 here.
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This AJFA set is such a waste without a bonus disc remix. I love this album, but it sounds like ass and I can't even listen to it anymore unfortunately, and there's no point buying another copy that still sounds like ass. Huge missed opportunity.
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Just did a quick compare/contrast with the remastered Dyer's Eve.
It's an improvement....a little. Seems they cleaned up the high end of all things, taking out some of the high mids. So it's more clear and punchy, that's about it. Bass is mostly the same.
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So lets get this straight - the fans have been waiting for a remixed version of this album for years, the band had a perfect chance to do it on the album's 30th anniversary, but decided only to remaster it? That's very underwhelming, it's so odd that Lars and James chose to ignore the issues with the album. It's like they stand by their mistakes and don't show any interest in correcting them.
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Guys, this is part of a series of deluxe -box remasters they are going through and doing for the whole catalog. I get with this album in particular people want a re-mix (I honestly do too) but it shouldn't have been expected. This box set is supposed to be a remaster with a ton of extras, exactly what they did with KEA, RTL, MOP, and they are already starting TBA one.
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So the Seattle show is LP only? That’s the show I was at! Both nights! It be great if I could at least have some lossless digital copy of it. I like vinyl, but I don’t want that to be the only way I can listen to it.
Vinyl's will have digital download too so you'll be able to get the digital copy too.
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I know at least Hetfield was against remixing the album, and they probably won't fix St. Anger either for the same reason: https://www.guitarworld.com/artists/james-hetfield-tells-why-hes-against-fixing-bass-and-justice-all
I get what he's saying about not wanting to replace the original, but come on - what's wrong with a full remix on a bonus disc? The original would still be there for those who like the sound as is, but those who don't would surely appreciate an alternate mix.
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Trust me, like everyone, I want a remixed AJFA too. But given what was included in the package, I WELL got my money's worth for the deluxe set. AJFA is my third favorite album (even with the original bass mixed so low) ever, and while I am bummed there is no proper remix, I love it as much as I do even as the original. And I'm telling you, my gut feeling is that the rough mix disc will give us what we've all been asking for in enough high quality to satisfy most people. And I think that's why it is in the Deluxe set, as opposed to being available separately.
Once it is released, I am sure the rough mix disc will be all over YouTube.
But this box set is outstanding, and while I totally understand that it is overpriced for some people (no offense taken whatsoever on your comment above, TAC, no worries), for me, it was actually cheaper than I thought it would be. I am VERY pleased to pay 236 bucks (with tax and shipping) for this. I never owned AJFA on vinyl, and as large as the set is, with 11 CDs, 6 vinyls, and 4 DVDs, plus the book, it is extremely well priced.
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^ Oh yeah, when you break down everything they include in these types of boxes, it's totally worth the price if you love the album (and band).
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IF you want all that stuff, it's worth the price.
But what about all the people who DON'T want all that stuff and just want some of it?
I'm hoping the rough mixes end up on youtube.
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I have always liked the album a lot. It is one of what I consider to be the four "essential" Metallica albums (RTL, MPA, AJFA, the Black album). But I have never actually owned a copy. :lol I think now is the time. I will likely go with the 3-disk remaster.
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IF you want all that stuff, it's worth the price.
But what about all the people who DON'T want all that stuff and just want some of it?
Then you decide to either (1) buy it because what you DO want is still worth paying the price, (2) not buy it because what you DO want is NOT worth paying the price, or (3) steal from the band and justify in your own mind that it is "okay" because the band should have thought about catering to your specific needs, so they deserve it.
Not really a tough choice.
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IF you want all that stuff, it's worth the price.
But what about all the people who DON'T want all that stuff and just want some of it?
I'm hoping the rough mixes end up on youtube.
Of course, I was just trying to make the point that while expensive, there is a lot included. So if someone wants that stuff it's actually good value for money. There are 11 CDs alone. So if it was just CDs, it would be like $18 bucks a CD. Plus 4 DVDs, vinyl, book, etc... It's a pretty good value for everything they put in there.
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IF you want all that stuff, it's worth the price.
But what about all the people who DON'T want all that stuff and just want some of it?
Then you decide to either (1) buy it because what you DO want is still worth paying the price, (2) not buy it because what you DO want is NOT worth paying the price, or (3) steal from the band and justify in your own mind that it is "okay" because the band should have thought about catering to your specific needs, so they deserve it.
Not really a tough choice.
Sure. But that justifies any kind of price requests. Want X? Fine, but it's 5000 dollars because it's only possible to buy with Y and Z as well.
Obviously I'm choosing that it's not worth it. And I'd never steal (I don't consider listening to something on youtube to be stealing) but I was just airing a grievance. I think it's lame. I'm allowed to say I think it's lame.
Also I don't think this is "catering to my specific needs". It's a widely known request from a HUGE part of the Metallica fan base for a remix of Justice. This is the closest thing and they won't sell it unless you pay 200 dollars for a bunch of other stuff you might not need. It's lame. Again, I'm allowed to say it's lame. I'm not boycotting the band or anything. They're still one of my favorite bands and that won't change.
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IF you want all that stuff, it's worth the price.
But what about all the people who DON'T want all that stuff and just want some of it?
I'm hoping the rough mixes end up on youtube.
Of course, I was just trying to make the point that while expensive, there is a lot included. So if someone wants that stuff it's actually good value for money. There are 11 CDs alone. So if it was just CDs, it would be like $18 bucks a CD. Plus 4 DVDs, vinyl, book, etc... It's a pretty good value for everything they put in there.
Oh totally. If you want all that stuff, it's an AMAZING deal. If I had more money and a record player, I'd totally get it.
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OK, so I calmed down and took a look at the package. The live CD's and DVD's look fantastic.
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I, for one, am totally pumped about this. I have the other 3 box sets and will continue to get them for the other albums as they come. Metallica was #1 in my book for many years, and I love revisiting their albums, and demos, and live stuff. These releases have been a dream come true for me.
Regarding the remixed album: I totally get why they didn't do it. These boxes are supposed to represent the band in basically a time capsule... this is how it was for them, as Metallica, from 1987-1989. A remixed version of Justice from 2018 doesn't belong in this box, just as the live versions of Master of Puppets from 2006, Ride the Lightning from 2012, or Kill 'Em All from 2013 didn't belong in their respective boxes. Now, what's interesting is the Rough Mix that IS included. My guess, like Samsara's, is that this will be close to, if not exactly, what people have been looking for. And it's from 1988. So that belongs in there.
In any event, a new remix would probably not even satisfy everybody, so the band is really damned if they do, damned if they don't. So they chose to say "fuck it." And I have no problem with that.
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I get what he's saying about not wanting to replace the original, but come on - what's wrong with a full remix on a bonus disc? The original would still be there for those who like the sound as is, but those who don't would surely appreciate an alternate mix.
Amen! Better yet, they could've done 2 remixes - one with the original mix and the bass added back in, and a second one where they used the ambient mics that were in the studio to give it a more layered sound, instead of the flat in-your-face sound that resulted. I recall reading an interview with Flemming who commented that those additional tracks (of the mics picking things up ambiently) weren't used at all, but that was what he had intended. Would love to have heard what his vision (as producer) would have sounded like. But nope. Not gonna happen. Thanks guys. :tdwn
And BTW, for those of you hoping for the rough mixes to sound better, maybe they will, but don't bank on it! While it was a demo and not a rough mix, I remember having a Japanese import CD that had a demo (probably for One) that had no bass on it either, although the liner notes expressly stated it was done on a 4-track, so there was no room for the bass. Hopefully the rough mixes won't be the same way, but if Lars was already meddling with the sound when those mixes were made, they probably won't sound much better.
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I really wish bands would stop releasing stuff like this that requires folks to buy vinyl albums in order to get all the cool extras. Why not throw in 6 8-tracks and jack up the price even more?!
:lol
You know what I fucking hate? It's that they think they can soak their fans on this. No offence Samsara....
I mean, the 20 year olds that attended the Justice tour are now 50, and can likely afford a $199 trip down nostalgia lane.
I get it. If you don't want it, don't buy it.. I get it. But I don't care if they include a free blow job. It's still TWO HUNDRED FUCKING DOLLARS!
Here's two FREE pics from the second row in Worcester on March 17, 1989
(https://i.imgur.com/lOR6ryx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/q0FzJ7B.jpg)
I was at the show in Burlington, VT a couple months later. Nothing beats Seattle though.
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I was at the show in Burlington, VT a couple months later. Nothing beats Seattle though.
I saw the following shows:
3/16/89 Worcester
3/17/89 Hartford
3/29/89 Providence
7/21/89 Meadowlands, NJ
7/25/89 Worcester
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TAC....it's not just about the photos. This is 5 LPs, 1 picture disc, 11 CDs and 4 DVDs. Ask yourself how much those would cost if they were released on an individual basis. Honestly TAC, you CANNOT claim they aren't giving you $200 worth of material.
Alternatively, you can also wonder how many people would buy some of those if they were released on an individual basis. A full CD for interviews? How many times are you going to listen to that? 2 CDs of random riffs and rehearsals? 6 CDs with 3 different live versions for each song? I mean, there's only one way to make 11 CDs out of a single CD album, and that's adding a crap ton of filler. In the end, you're paying 200 dollars when the individual price of the items most people want is probably ranging from 50 to 150, depending on how much you enjoy live stuff and having 17 versions of the same song.
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Not to break up the box set Justice conversation, but I just wanted to say that Hardwired to Self-destruct has been aging really well with me. Probably their strongest overall record since TBA, IMO.
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Not to break up the box set Justice conversation, but I just wanted to say that Hardwired to Self-destruct has been aging really well with me. Probably their strongest overall record since TBA, IMO.
I agree! For me it's aging a lot better than Death Magnetic. And I was way more excited, initially, for Death Magnetic than Hardwired. Before Hardwired dropped I had basically written them off as a band that was creatively spent, and could no longer release anything near as good as the stuff released in their heyday. Content to release subpar recordings of subpar music. So this was a very welcome release for me. And it really seems like they've upped their live playing back to respectable levels. It was getting really hard to listen to their live playing in the last 10 -15 years. Feels good to have them back - well, as much as a band can be back this late in their career.
I still miss Jason, though. Would have loved to have him part of this era.
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Finding the Hit the Lights video in the Portnoy thread led me to this video from Metallica's 30th anniversary of them playing Four Horsemen with John Bush, and for once they freaking played the middle section of that song. It kills me that they usually cut that part out because I absolutely love it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25XSRjC8G3A
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Finding the Hit the Lights video in the Portnoy thread led me to this video from Metallica's 30th anniversary of them playing Four Horsemen with John Bush, and for once they freaking played the middle section of that song. It kills me that they usually cut that part out because I absolutely love it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25XSRjC8G3A
It would be so cool if they released a pro version of that show. At least the Metallica live parts. Some truly legendary events happened there.
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Finding the Hit the Lights video in the Portnoy thread led me to this video from Metallica's 30th anniversary of them playing Four Horsemen with John Bush, and for once they freaking played the middle section of that song. It kills me that they usually cut that part out because I absolutely love it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25XSRjC8G3A
It would be so cool if they released a pro version of that show. At least the Metallica live parts. Some truly legendary events happened there.
Definitely. I remember pretty much drooling as the recaps were coming out after each night.
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There's tons of great videos on youtube, but I would kill for a well mixed, well made, blu ray version of it all.
Hell, I'd do more than kill. I'd agree with Stadler.
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Finding the Hit the Lights video in the Portnoy thread led me to this video from Metallica's 30th anniversary of them playing Four Horsemen with John Bush, and for once they freaking played the middle section of that song. It kills me that they usually cut that part out because I absolutely love it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25XSRjC8G3A
That version gave me chills. What a treat to hear John Bush and James Hetfield harmonize their vocals in that song. John Bush seriously elevated that song to a whole new level with that performance. Easily the best version of Four Horseman I've ever heard.
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There's tons of great videos on youtube, but I would kill for a well mixed, well made, blu ray version of it all.
Hell, I'd do more than kill. I'd agree with Stadler.
:lol
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Hardwired to Self Destruct has aged really well. Revisited it these days and it while I liked it the first time I heard it, it has somehow grown on me even more. The less one compares it to Death Magnetic, the better it becomes :metal
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I can't help thinking that if Jason were still in the band, the bass would have been properly re-mixed for this release. The fact it hasn't been is one final middle finger to him from James and Lars.
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I can't help thinking that if Jason were still in the band, the bass would have been properly re-mixed for this release. The fact it hasn't been is one final middle finger to him from James and Lars.
I don't get why they didn't do that. No one gives a f*ck about a superdeluxelimited box set if the bass is still not audible. They must know that just about any Metallica fan wants a good sounding AJFA version.
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I can't help thinking that if Jason were still in the band, the bass would have been properly re-mixed for this release. The fact it hasn't been is one final middle finger to him from James and Lars.
I don't get why they didn't do that. No one gives a f*ck about a superdeluxelimited box set if the bass is still not audible. They must know that just about any Metallica fan wants a good sounding AJFA version.
But THEY don't want it. It is their art, and they don't want to go back 20 or 30 years later and change their art for someone else's sake. It was addressed earlier in this thread. Metallica views their albums as a snapshot in time and they don't want to make any changes that would give their albums an update to make them snapshots of the current time (i.e. AJFA 1988 vs. AJFA 2018 with remixed bass).
You have to remember, that this is the band that got incredibly pissed off when I Disappear was leaked through Napster in its unfinished form. They are the artists and they want to control how their art is released and in what finished form it is released. So if they don't want to remix the album for themselves, why would they want to remix the album for someone else (the fans?)?
It's not a middle finger to Jason at all, especially given how much bonus material they are including WITH his playing.
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I can't help thinking that if Jason were still in the band, the bass would have been properly re-mixed for this release. The fact it hasn't been is one final middle finger to him from James and Lars.
Nah, like I said in this thread before - the core of each album's box set is a remastered version of their albums. Not a remix, a remaster.
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So their tour has started and I was listening to my local sports radio, WFAN in NYC, and they had Jim Breuer on and he was talking about how he is the opening act for Metallica. I was a bit shocked to hear that, I had no idea and I even have two tickets for the State College show. He was talking about that show too and how he is trying to get the Penn State Blue Band to come on stage during it. That show is one month from today and I kind of forgot about it coming up. The setlists so far this round are better than their stadium tour last year so I should get to see a few different songs.
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But THEY don't want it. It is their art, and they don't want to go back 20 or 30 years later and change their art for someone else's sake. It was addressed earlier in this thread. Metallica views their albums as a snapshot in time and they don't want to make any changes that would give their albums an update to make them snapshots of the current time (i.e. AJFA 1988 vs. AJFA 2018 with remixed bass).
You have to remember, that this is the band that got incredibly pissed off when I Disappear was leaked through Napster in its unfinished form. They are the artists and they want to control how their art is released and in what finished form it is released. So if they don't want to remix the album for themselves, why would they want to remix the album for someone else (the fans?)?
It's not a middle finger to Jason at all, especially given how much bonus material they are including WITH his playing.
All of that. AND, people seem to be forgetting that there is a disc that contains a rough mix of the record. If you know the history, the rough mix HAD JASON'S BASS. That's why it was a rough mix and not the final. So what everyone is wanting is in the big package. It's just not being picked up on by people. The set is amazing. 180 bucks through Amazon (beats the 236 I spent with SHipping through Metallica's site). With all the stuff contained, it is worth every dime.
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So their tour has started and I was listening to my local sports radio, WFAN in NYC, and they had Jim Breuer on and he was talking about how he is the opening act for Metallica. I was a bit shocked to hear that, I had no idea and I even have two tickets for the State College show. He was talking about that show too and how he is trying to get the Penn State Blue Band to come on stage during it. That show is one month from today and I kind of forgot about it coming up. The setlists so far this round are better than their stadium tour last year so I should get to see a few different songs.
Yeah Jim has been the opener for this whole US run so far. He does some standup, some crowd interaction stuff and then Metallica plays, no other bands.
And yes, the setlists for this arena run have been way cooler than the stadium run.
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Hardwired to Self Destruct has aged really well.
Can an album that's less than two years old really be said to have "aged" at all???
But THEY don't want it. It is their art, and they don't want to go back 20 or 30 years later and change their art for someone else's sake. It was addressed earlier in this thread. Metallica views their albums as a snapshot in time and they don't want to make any changes that would give their albums an update to make them snapshots of the current time (i.e. AJFA 1988 vs. AJFA 2018 with remixed bass).
You have to remember, that this is the band that got incredibly pissed off when I Disappear was leaked through Napster in its unfinished form. They are the artists and they want to control how their art is released and in what finished form it is released. So if they don't want to remix the album for themselves, why would they want to remix the album for someone else (the fans?)?
It's not a middle finger to Jason at all, especially given how much bonus material they are including WITH his playing.
All of that. AND, people seem to be forgetting that there is a disc that contains a rough mix of the record. If you know the history, the rough mix HAD JASON'S BASS. That's why it was a rough mix and not the final. So what everyone is wanting is in the big package. It's just not being picked up on by people. The set is amazing. 180 bucks through Amazon (beats the 236 I spent with SHipping through Metallica's site). With all the stuff contained, it is worth every dime.
Aren't you making an assumption about the rough mix? I think someone else suggested that it wouldn't be much different than the final mix. Won't really know until it's released.
I agree with Grappler, and to Fritzinger's point, there are "enhanced bass" versions of the AJFA tracks readily available on YouTube.
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Hardwired to Self Destruct has aged really well.
Can an album that's less than two years old really be said to have "aged" at all???
Sure, it's aged like, two years.
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Hardwired to Self Destruct has aged really well.
Can an album that's less than two years old really be said to have "aged" at all???
But THEY don't want it. It is their art, and they don't want to go back 20 or 30 years later and change their art for someone else's sake. It was addressed earlier in this thread. Metallica views their albums as a snapshot in time and they don't want to make any changes that would give their albums an update to make them snapshots of the current time (i.e. AJFA 1988 vs. AJFA 2018 with remixed bass).
You have to remember, that this is the band that got incredibly pissed off when I Disappear was leaked through Napster in its unfinished form. They are the artists and they want to control how their art is released and in what finished form it is released. So if they don't want to remix the album for themselves, why would they want to remix the album for someone else (the fans?)?
It's not a middle finger to Jason at all, especially given how much bonus material they are including WITH his playing.
All of that. AND, people seem to be forgetting that there is a disc that contains a rough mix of the record. If you know the history, the rough mix HAD JASON'S BASS. That's why it was a rough mix and not the final. So what everyone is wanting is in the big package. It's just not being picked up on by people. The set is amazing. 180 bucks through Amazon (beats the 236 I spent with SHipping through Metallica's site). With all the stuff contained, it is worth every dime.
Aren't you making an assumption about the rough mix? I think someone else suggested that it wouldn't be much different than the final mix. Won't really know until it's released.
I agree with Grappler, and to Fritzinger's point, there are "enhanced bass" versions of the AJFA tracks readily available on YouTube.
P,
Absolutely I'm making an assumption. But rough mixes typically aren't identical levels to the finished product. At least not what I'm told from those I know who do it for a living. You're right -- we won't know until it is released, and I could absolutely be wrong. But if there was a way to give people an "official" taste of what it would sound like, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that's why that disc is only attainable int he super deluxe edition, and it hasn't really been marketed. Again, all assumption, of course.
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But THEY don't want it. It is their art, and they don't want to go back 20 or 30 years later and change their art for someone else's sake.
Oh, I get it, it's their art. Fair play to them. I'll probably buy the 3CD version. But it's still a missed opportunity.
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I can't help thinking that if Jason were still in the band, the bass would have been properly re-mixed for this release. The fact it hasn't been is one final middle finger to him from James and Lars.
Nah, Jason himself has said that he's come to terms with the album's sound and that it shouldn't be messed with.
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They announced a European stadium tour for 2019 with Ghost. That sounds rad. :metal
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I'd really love to see that. :metal
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They'll come to my hometown, one subway stop away from where I work. This summer Maiden played there, it was glorious to change myself in the office bathroom and walking from the office to the venue :D
Ironically I was just discussing with my cousin Ghost yesterday, she said she wanted to see them and I told her they already announced the european dates, and that FB listed them as "final", I wrote her "Guess you'll have to wait for another time".
Today I wrote her adding "Maybe not, you can see them with metallica" ;D
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Metallica: The Shortest Straw (December 1987, Writing in Progress) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzS73w1DdNM)
That's some crunchy guitars! :metal
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Ugh. I really wish they'd go back to a crunchy metal tone as opposed to the hard rock guitar tone they've had for a while. I love the new album, but I just miss that intense guitar sound.
Don't even get me started on Kirk's current lead tones.
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Wow, yeah that guitar sound is soooo crunchy. Pretty cool.
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Been getting downloads (but not actually downloading) from the new Justice box set from Metallica's site. I perfer to wait and just get hit with it all at once. I haven't listened. But I am so excited to check it all out.
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They sold out and set a record attendance at the Bryce Jordan Center last weekend. We had a couple floor tickets and really enjoyed the concert and experience. I was really annoyed they didn't sell any booze, but that didnt stop the show from being awesome. What was really cool and interesting was that I noticed that I can use the ticket stub to get a free download of the concert I attended on their official live website. So I have the full show and it sounds pretty good, but I noticed James sounds like he's a bit sick or struggling which I didn't notice live. Anyway, here's my video of the concert experience including the opening act of Jim Breuer
Metallica with Jim Breur LIVE at Sold Out Penn State (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tl7GnNMof4)
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Metallica - Holier Than Thou Live @ Penn State Official Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1p3ucZzN0M)
Fuck yea, loved this song live and was hoping they'd release the video of this.
"Holier than thou for you penn state!" as an Alum of PSU, I absolutely loved hearing James say that. :metal :metal
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Justice box set out today - all the audio is up on Spotify, pretty interesting stuff.
The actual remaster of the album sounds pretty solid. The remixed Seattle 89 show sounds killer. The riff tapes are really interesting as are the writing in progress stuff - lots of cool stuff in there.
Oh and for anyone looking for more bass, check out the "work in progress rough mix" versions of the songs. Definitely more bass in the mix there and Jason sounds great. Still tons of stuff I haven't listened to yet...
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I'm so happy to have some audio of Seattle 89.
They released an incredible, nearly 90 minute interview with the full band regarding Justice - https://youtu.be/vMc24819DXk
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I'm so happy to have some audio of Seattle 89.
They released an incredible, nearly 90 minute interview with the full band regarding Justice - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMc24819DXk
Yeah watching the interview now, good stuff in here. I like the amount of time they've spent talking about Frayed Ends.
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Is that interview in the box set? I've been avoiding everything because I plan to sit down with the box set when it arrives, and watch everything. I don't want to spoil it if that interview is in there.
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Is that interview in the box set? I've been avoiding everything because I plan to sit down with the box set when it arrives, and watch everything. I don't want to spoil it if that interview is in there.
I don't think so. It's a new interview with David Fiske that was debuted on Facebook last night.
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Thanks Grapp. I'll cue it up.
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Yeah the interview is not in the box set, they just filmed the interview a couple weeks ago and streamed it last night.
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Incredible interview. One lingering question I've yet to see answered is why they never played Dyers Eve, TLITD, and Frayed Ends on the actual Justice tour. I'm always curious how they choose which songs to play and why they only did 6/9 songs live out of 180+ shows.
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I'm 25 minutes in, and really enjoying this interview. So glad they did this. :metal
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Incredible interview. One lingering question I've yet to see answered is why they never played Dyers Eve, TLITD, and Frayed Ends on the actual Justice tour. I'm always curious how they choose which songs to play and why they only did 6/9 songs live out of 180+ shows.
It's a good question. It was interesting to hear that Rob basically pushed them to finally play Dyers and Frayed Ends.
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It was interesting to see their faces when they started talking about Cliff and Jason. 30+ years later and you can see that they're still really affected by Cliff's death.
Listening to the remaster right now. This band is amazing - I've listened to them for 27 years and I tend to leave the discs on the shelf most of the time. I've heard the music so many times that I just don't need to hear it a lot. But when I do listen, I'm still just as in awe as I was when I was a kid and rabid Metallica fan.
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The only thing that could have made that interview better is if Jason was there. I totally understand why he wasn't, he doesn't seem to have interest in doing Metallica related things anymore outside of the Fillmore stuff. But having his perspective 30 years later, that would have been cool.
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The only thing that could have made that interview better is if Jason was there. I totally understand why he wasn't, he doesn't seem to have interest in doing Metallica related things anymore outside of the Fillmore stuff. But having his perspective 30 years later, that would have been cool.
I agree. It felt like that was a big gap. I loved the interview, but was curious as to Jason's absence. As far as I remember, they are all on good terms, so that's strange. Grapp hit the nail on the head regarding the loss of Cliff though. That will always be an open wound, as opposed to a scar.
I am waiting for the box set to be delivered. I'm annoyed, because I ordered through Metallica.com, because I thought Amazon wouldn't have it. So I paid something like $236 for it, when I could have had it for $199 on Amazon. And Amazon would have it to my office today. My fingers are crossed Metallica will make sure it is delivered today. I have the tracking number, and it was supposed to have shipped on Tuesday. But when my tracking number didn't show any updates as of yesterday, I wrote them, and was told that it had shipped, but USPS won't update the tracking "for a few days." So I have no way of knowing when it will be here (it isn't updated today, either).
Grr. I could have saved almost 40 bucks and had better tracking had I just gotten it on Amazon. Lesson learned.
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^^^ That's really annoying. I feel your frustration.
In a similar vein, I pre-ordered Steven Wilson's Home Invasion from Burning Shed over a month ago and expected to receive it today (the day of release). Guess what? Delays in getting all their shipment, which they knew about two days ago but didn't bother informing their customers, thereby removing the option of cancelling the order and ordering from Amazon instead, and saving £5 in the process. Burning Shed has previous on this.
Anyway, back to 'tallica: only watched 20 minutes of the interview so far, looks like it'll be well worth watching the rest. Not sure about the interviewer, though. Just ask the bloody question, mate, it's not about you!
My box set arrived today, happily, but I've not looked through the contents yet. Nice and weighty, though. I like that ;D
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My box set arrived today, happily, but I've not looked through the contents yet. Nice and weighty, though. I like that ;D
Did you go through Metallica, or through Amazon (or some place else)?
I am hoping, particularly since they are shipping from HQ, that I'll have mine today. I mean hell, I could drive on my lunch hour and go pick it up if need be. Of course, I'd probably be on the news for geeking out and causing a disturbance at HQ, so probably not the best move. :lol
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Amazon. I'm in the UK, though.
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Amazon. I'm in the UK, though.
Ah. Ok. Thanks man. Enjoy the set when you get a chance to sit down with it. :metal
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The only thing that could have made that interview better is if Jason was there. I totally understand why he wasn't, he doesn't seem to have interest in doing Metallica related things anymore outside of the Fillmore stuff. But having his perspective 30 years later, that would have been cool.
I agree. It felt like that was a big gap. I loved the interview, but was curious as to Jason's absence. As far as I remember, they are all on good terms, so that's strange. Grapp hit the nail on the head regarding the loss of Cliff though. That will always be an open wound, as opposed to a scar.
I doubt his absence was anything malicious or intentional. They're clearly in their pre-show backstage rehearsal room so it's obviously an interview they agreed to do before performing later that night. It probably seemed excessive to fly Jason out just to sit in for an hour interview.
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The only thing that could have made that interview better is if Jason was there. I totally understand why he wasn't, he doesn't seem to have interest in doing Metallica related things anymore outside of the Fillmore stuff. But having his perspective 30 years later, that would have been cool.
I agree. It felt like that was a big gap. I loved the interview, but was curious as to Jason's absence. As far as I remember, they are all on good terms, so that's strange. Grapp hit the nail on the head regarding the loss of Cliff though. That will always be an open wound, as opposed to a scar.
I doubt his absence was anything malicious or intentional. They're clearly in their pre-show backstage rehearsal room so it's obviously an interview they agreed to do before performing later that night. It probably seemed excessive to fly Jason out just to sit in for an hour interview.
I think you're spot on, that's probably exactly the reasoning. I'm just pointing out it would have been awesome to have Jason a part of the conversation. I don't think there's any bad blood.
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For the record, I never said I thought Jason's absence was because I assumed there was a problem. I said it was "curious" and "strange." That was due to the fact that Jason's story was tied up with that record. The fact that they were on tour when the interview happened and were playing that night was obviously the main factor in his absence. :)
p.s. got my tracking update from Metallica HQ. My box won't arrive until Monday. Unreal. I buy from the band, trying to do what I think is the right thing, buying direct, and figuring no shipping issues, since I live in NorCal. Wrong. They did the label at HQ, and it is actually shipping from VIRGINIA. So not only do I not get the set today (like I would have, had I bought it on Amazon), I also paid about 40 bucks more than I would have on Amazon with free shipping because of Prime.
Nice screw job, 'Tallica. Damn. I was really looking forward to going through that whole box set this weekend.
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Ok, so my box set arrived. First thing I am listening to is the disc of Rough Mixes. Now, I need to A/B this and the actual remastered album, but halfway through Blackened, I am hearing bass much more audible. Admittedly, I WANT to hear more bass, and have told myself this CD is probably the closest we are going to get, so it may be completely psychosomatic.
But all that aside, I am so happy this BEHEMOTH is here. Can't wait to dig into all the goodies. :metal
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Ok, so my box set arrived. First thing I am listening to is the disc of Rough Mixes. Now, I need to A/B this and the actual remastered album, but halfway through Blackened, I am hearing bass much more audible. Admittedly, I WANT to hear more bass, and have told myself this CD is probably the closest we are going to get, so it may be completely psychosomatic.
Oh yeah the rough mixes definitely have way more bass than the album versions. It's still not easy to pick out at times, but that shows how buried it was on the album.
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Ok, so my box set arrived. First thing I am listening to is the disc of Rough Mixes. Now, I need to A/B this and the actual remastered album, but halfway through Blackened, I am hearing bass much more audible. Admittedly, I WANT to hear more bass, and have told myself this CD is probably the closest we are going to get, so it may be completely psychosomatic.
Oh yeah the rough mixes definitely have way more bass than the album versions. It's still not easy to pick out at times, but that shows how buried it was on the album.
From what I have read and heard, it wasn't so much buried, in that Jason was doubling James a lot. So the separation was hard. Either way, I think the rough mixes sound fantastic.
Been working my way through the box set. I watched a couple of the DVDs on Saturday night. One was the whole concert from Shoreline Amphitheater in 1989, and the other was Lars' camcoder footage, the One video versions, and then a whole host of live songs captured. It was really cool. Bootleg-like footage, but cleaned up really well. Raw enough so it felt like Metallica - not so polished and all that. I really, really enjoyed it. Going to go through another set of DVDs this week, and I am about halfway through the book that accompanied the set. It's mostly pictures interlaced with words from a ton of people who worked with the band on stuff during that time. Fascinating recollections.
Worth every penny, and I haven't even gotten to the vinyls yet.
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The bass was definitely buried. The engineer has said, on the record, the Lars told him to keep turning the bass down until it was barely audible.
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The bass was definitely buried. The engineer has said, on the record, the Lars told him to keep turning the bass down until it was barely audible.
We're not in disagreement. I have read that too. The volume of the bass was lowered, but what I am saying is that Jason's parts on Justice mirrored a lot of the rhythm guitar. So they don't stand out as much as they would have, had Jason not doubled up as much. That's how I understand it. So even in something like the rough mixes, you can hear the bass better for sure. But its doubling the rhythm guitar.
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The bass was definitely buried. The engineer has said, on the record, the Lars told him to keep turning the bass down until it was barely audible.
We're not in disagreement. I have read that too. The volume of the bass was lowered, but what I am saying is that Jason's parts on Justice mirrored a lot of the rhythm guitar. So they don't stand out as much as they would have, had Jason not doubled up as much. That's how I understand it. So even in something like the rough mixes, you can hear the bass better for sure. But its doubling the rhythm guitar.
For the most part it is doubling the guitar, but Jason, Cliff, and Rob have all doubled the guitar on different records and the bass was waaaaay more audible. This is much more about a "production choice" than an arrangement issue. Always has been.
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The bass was definitely buried. The engineer has said, on the record, the Lars told him to keep turning the bass down until it was barely audible.
We're not in disagreement. I have read that too. The volume of the bass was lowered, but what I am saying is that Jason's parts on Justice mirrored a lot of the rhythm guitar. So they don't stand out as much as they would have, had Jason not doubled up as much. That's how I understand it. So even in something like the rough mixes, you can hear the bass better for sure. But its doubling the rhythm guitar.
For the most part it is doubling the guitar, but Jason, Cliff, and Rob have all doubled the guitar on different records and the bass was waaaaay more audible. This is much more about a "production choice" than an arrangement issue. Always has been.
I think we have a different understanding of the word arrangement. I always take arrangement in a song to mean the structure of the song - where the bridge goes, the solo goes, substituting one verse section for another. In the case of AJFA, the bass' volume and place has nothing to do with arrangement, at least in how I understand the term from a musical perspective. "Production choice" is probably the best descriptor, as you put.
In a nutshell, I think we all agree that it is obvious that Jason's bass volume was lowered. The band has said in the final mix, they had it low, and then dropped it even lower. That's a fact. In the rough mixes, you can hear it more, because that was before the "second lowering" of the bass. It was mixed, and is mixed low, but audible. Then the final record it is inaudible.
My point on the doubling, was that I heard multiple times that Jason, particularly on Justice, had to be encouraged to get away from exactly doubling the rhythm guitar. And so I am saying, that perhaps another factor that played a role in it all, was the fact that moreso on AJFA than any other record, the bass doubled the rhythm guitar MORE, which could have contributed to less separation, and a more difficult time picking apart the bass and rhythm guitar. Not that that is the be all, end all of the story. The volume was definitely, purposefully turned way the hell down. I'm just saying that given the nature of what was played, and upon hearing the rough mixes (before the final volume lowering), there wasn't much separation between the bass and rhythm guitar (much less than what would be on the Black album, or Puppets/RTL with Cliff).
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I think we have a different understanding of the word arrangement. I always take arrangement in a song to mean the structure of the song - where the bridge goes, the solo goes, substituting one verse section for another. In the case of AJFA, the bass' volume and place has nothing to do with arrangement, at least in how I understand the term from a musical perspective. "Production choice" is probably the best descriptor, as you put.
Arrangements can also mean arranging the parts the instruments play during those sections of the song. For example - if they wrote the overall song arrangement for Blackened meaning they knew the flow - verse, chorus, bridge, solo, etc... the next step would be to drill down a bit more (if needed) and take a hard look at how the instruments are working together within those sections. Maybe the bass should match the guitar part perfectly for the verse, but for the chorus they could arrange the bass part to have a slightly different groove or selection of notes. Etc..etc... That's what I meant by arrangements. Jason definitely just matches James a lot, but my point was that Rob, Cliff, and Jason on other records did that a lot too and the bass is much more audible.
In a nutshell, I think we all agree that it is obvious that Jason's bass volume was lowered. The band has said in the final mix, they had it low, and then dropped it even lower. That's a fact. In the rough mixes, you can hear it more, because that was before the "second lowering" of the bass. It was mixed, and is mixed low, but audible. Then the final record it is inaudible.
Yup, totally agree.
My point on the doubling, was that I heard multiple times that Jason, particularly on Justice, had to be encouraged to get away from exactly doubling the rhythm guitar. And so I am saying, that perhaps another factor that played a role in it all, was the fact that moreso on AJFA than any other record, the bass doubled the rhythm guitar MORE, which could have contributed to less separation, and a more difficult time picking apart the bass and rhythm guitar. Not that that is the be all, end all of the story. The volume was definitely, purposefully turned way the hell down. I'm just saying that given the nature of what was played, and upon hearing the rough mixes (before the final volume lowering), there wasn't much separation between the bass and rhythm guitar (much less than what would be on the Black album, or Puppets/RTL with Cliff).
Yeah, James has been on record saying that he would literally turn his back to Jason in rehearsal for the songs on Justice so that Jason couldn't see his hands and just mirror what he was playing. Jason definitely mirrored a lot, and it's a factor in the lack of bass - but a much smaller factor. The larger factor was the decision to turn him down in the mixing phase.
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Such a shame. I know AFJA is a snapshot in time, and I loved it regardless, before knowing any of the volume stuff. But after hearing the rough mixes, and that Justice for Jason YouTube thing, man...
I think the rough mix will end up being my go-to now.
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I listened to the Black album in-full today for the first time in probably 20 years. I wanted to go to different Metallica, since I have been on an AJFA binge with the box set and plowing through it all.
It's weird. I mean, it is a good record, for sure. And EVERY BAND made a record like this during that 1989-1992 time period. Slicker production, more concise songs, etc. But the re-listen to the whole album just solidified the opinion that thrash bands have much less leeway in this sort of thing. It just doesn't sound like the same band - AT ALL. I mean the voice is there, sure. But the guitar tones are different, the pace is so much slower, and while it is still dark, its not at all...really angry.
I get it. Metallica was in a different space, having been a successful arena act. They were more comfortable financially for the first time in their lives. But man, while the songs are good songs, its like Metallica on pain meds. A style very much by their own design -- slower, etc. But it was such a huge disparity from the crazy thrash meets progressive from Justice, and the thrash/punk metal vibe ride from KEA through Master of Puppets.
Megadeth did it too, but Countdown wasn't AS drastic a departure from Rust in Peace. Testament did it, Death Angel did it, Anthrax did it (although they got darker in a better way, not an unrecognizable way with Persistence and then later with Bush and Sound of White Noise), etc.
But Metallica -- its like they just absolutely shifted from the angriest and most aggressive band on the planet to a hard rock band.
Kudos to them, it propelled them into legendary status (they were global stars with Justice, but the Black album put them into legendary range), but it certainly wasn't the band I was personally a fan of.
Still love a bunch of songs from the Black album, the Loads, all the way up until Hardwired. But this re-listen to the Black album, in-full, reminded me of just how much more incredible they were...before they dialed it back a notch.
p.s. down the rabbit hole I go. Listening to Load now, in-full, for the first time probably since 2003 or 2004.
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I think over time TBA has become my favorite Metallica album. It's not their best, but it's probably my favorite (if that makes sense). Over the years the strength of the songwriting won me over. Doesn't matter to me whether it's thrash or metal or hard rock, I don't really care. The songs have held up, and not just the hits Sandman, NEM, etc... songs like Holier, Wolf, Roam, God, Misery are all so great.
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I think over time TBA has become my favorite Metallica album. It's not their best, but it's probably my favorite (if that makes sense). Over the years the strength of the songwriting won me over. Doesn't matter to me whether it's thrash or metal or hard rock, I don't really care. The songs have held up, and not just the hits Sandman, NEM, etc... songs like Holier, Wolf, Roam, God, Misery are all so great.
I see that completely. The songwriting IS great, and that's where they really improved at their craft. And I agree, the latter part of the record really shines. Again, I don't think the Black Album is BAD (far from it). If you forced me to really evaluate Met's catalog, it probably sits fourth...behind Justice, Puppets, and Lightning. KEM would be fifth.
But its just the shock of going from Justice to Black album is really in your face. It wasn't AS bad going through BLack to Load, because even though it was another shift toward radio rock, they had already made a significant turn that way with the Black album. Whereas with Justice, some say they planted the seeds of the Black album with that, but I completely disagree. I think Justice was them showing off how completely complicated and aggressive they could be, which is LIGHT YEARS from the Black album.
There are so many parallels of Metallica's album arc to other bands, so its not a unique story in the slightest. But I guess for me, I always give thrash bands less leeway to make those changes, because if you're a thrash band, I expect you to THRASH. Eventually, Megadeth came around, and Death Angel got back to it, and Testament got even heavier. But Metallica still has never QUITE returned to the pre-BLack album sound.
I don't think Death Magnetic was that return to form some people claim it is. I think it is contrived. Its like they tried, but it wasn't organic and they forced it. Whereas I think Hardwired was much more organic and natural for them, and they put out a couple songs I think can stand proudly with Justice (Spit Out the Bone, Atlas Rise, etc.)
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I see that completely. The songwriting IS great, and that's where they really improved at their craft. And I agree, the latter part of the record really shines. Again, I don't think the Black Album is BAD (far from it). If you forced me to really evaluate Met's catalog, it probably sits fourth...behind Justice, Puppets, and Lightning. KEM would be fifth.
Yeah, objectively Ride and Master are probably better than TBA and maybe Justice (that one has more issues), but like I said, the songs and the writing have just held up.
But its just the shock of going from Justice to Black album is really in your face. It wasn't AS bad going through BLack to Load, because even though it was another shift toward radio rock, they had already made a significant turn that way with the Black album. Whereas with Justice, some say they planted the seeds of the Black album with that, but I completely disagree. I think Justice was them showing off how completely complicated and aggressive they could be, which is LIGHT YEARS from the Black album.
I get that, and it probably helps me that I didn't discover Metallica till around the St. Anger era. So I didn't have to experience any of those style changes in real time. I could just dive back into the catalog and enjoy.
I don't think Death Magnetic was that return to form some people claim it is. I think it is contrived. Its like they tried, but it wasn't organic and they forced it. Whereas I think Hardwired was much more organic and natural for them, and they put out a couple songs I think can stand proudly with Justice (Spit Out the Bone, Atlas Rise, etc.)
I think Hardwired is their best since TBA. It's got a good mix of thrash tunes, TBA style tunes, and slower rockers in the Load style.
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There are so many parallels of Metallica's album arc to other bands, so its not a unique story in the slightest. But I guess for me, I always give thrash bands less leeway to make those changes, because if you're a thrash band, I expect you to THRASH. Eventually, Megadeth came around, and Death Angel got back to it, and Testament got even heavier. But Metallica still has never QUITE returned to the pre-BLack album sound.
That's purely by their design. Metallica are always moving forward creatively and never looking backward, and Justice was that turning point. Sometimes things fail (Lulu, their movie) and sometimes it works well (the live Metallica downloads of every show), but they're always trying to do something new.
Rick Rubin was the first one to get them to try and relive their early feelings on tape with Death Magnetic, which is why it seems so contrived. It was purposely an exercise to try and recapture the old style, yet still trying to keep the creative element moving forward. They couldn't self-edit for shit, so the songs just went on and on. One song was truly a cut and paste job - this section from this new song and that section from that new song. That self editing was rectified with Hardwired and they were more concise with the song lengths.
To me, they don't see themselves as a thrash band, though they were part of the movement. So why limit themselves from a creative standpoint and box themselves in that thrash box, when they have the money and freedom to be unlimited? Can they write thrash, sure? Do they want to? Not specifically.
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Not sure if this was already posted, but it's a pretty good interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMc24819DXk
I went ahead and re-ordered Live Shit on CD/DVD and I'll probably grab the digital download of the 3 disc version of the AJFA re-release.
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There are so many parallels of Metallica's album arc to other bands, so its not a unique story in the slightest. But I guess for me, I always give thrash bands less leeway to make those changes, because if you're a thrash band, I expect you to THRASH. Eventually, Megadeth came around, and Death Angel got back to it, and Testament got even heavier. But Metallica still has never QUITE returned to the pre-BLack album sound.
That's purely by their design. Metallica are always moving forward creatively and never looking backward, and Justice was that turning point. Sometimes things fail (Lulu, their movie) and sometimes it works well (the live Metallica downloads of every show), but they're always trying to do something new.
Rick Rubin was the first one to get them to try and relive their early feelings on tape with Death Magnetic, which is why it seems so contrived. It was purposely an exercise to try and recapture the old style, yet still trying to keep the creative element moving forward. They couldn't self-edit for shit, so the songs just went on and on. One song was truly a cut and paste job - this section from this new song and that section from that new song. That self editing was rectified with Hardwired and they were more concise with the song lengths.
To me, they don't see themselves as a thrash band, though they were part of the movement. So why limit themselves from a creative standpoint and box themselves in that thrash box, when they have the money and freedom to be unlimited? Can they write thrash, sure? Do they want to? Not specifically.
Grapp, I understand, but all bands say that -- that they are moving forward creatively. The thing is, all bands also get to a point where they deviate from what they are good at, and then stumble and find their way back to the "pocket" for lack of a better term. The fact they don't want to write in a thrash metal style, specifically, is fine. But quite honestly, that is what they are best at. If I want to hear a mid-tempo, grungy song, I'll look at Soundgarden or Alice in Chains, who are better than Metallica. If I want to hear a slow ballad, there's plenty of bands that are superior to Metallica on that. But if I want this technical thrash fest, well, to me, that screams Metallica, because very few do it as well as them.
I am all for experimentation and growth. But when you get too out of the pocket, and think you're better than you really are with whatever you are experimenting with, it helps to get back to what you are good at, and reset who you are. Metallica, at least to my ears, has never quite done that, and as a result, the ride with them has been severely unrewarding over the last 25 years. There are bits that keep getting me back on the train for a quick ride or two (for example, Atlas Rise, Spit Out the Bone). But when you're only liking one or two songs per record, instead of liking almost an entire record, it is what it is. :)
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That brings to mind what MP said in an interview back in 2002. I'll include the previous question and response for context which was about QR:
SH: There also has been a lot of talk about Queensryche's next album, which they are working on right now. With the failure of Q2K, Michael Wilton is doing all the guitars and they are bringing in outside writers and-
MP: Icchhhhhh! I think that's a big mistake. We did it once, for one song with Desmond Child and it was a huge mistake for a band like ours, or a band like Queensryche. I think it's ridiculous. I think the only possibility for them to rekindle that flame would be to get back with Chris and rethink the direction. Because even Chris's last album with them was disappointing to me.
SH: Do you think it had more to do with the mix?
MP: No, I don't think it had anything to do with the mix - I think it had to do with the songs. They were trying to be Stone Temple Pilots. For me, as a Queensryche fan, I wanna hear Rage for Order and Operation: Mindcrime; I don't want them to repeat those albums, but I want that style. Same goes for Metallica. I wanna hear Master of Puppets or And Justice For All; I wanna hear them grow within those kind of boundaries. With Dream Theater, we always want to progress every album we make, we want to go in new places. But we never want to go in those new places at the expense of what is the style and sound of the band. Does that make sense? It's one thing to expand your horizons, to experiment and try different things, but you gotta keep one foot in the ground where your roots are. As long as you can keep one foot in the ground and grow from there, I think that's the key. I think both Queensryche and Metallica went too far off on a tangent, and it was at the expense of what made them so unique and special.
I agree with what he said - no problem experimenting, but don't go off on too far of a tangent so that the music becomes something completely separate from what the band is known for. I'd even venture MP was starting to do that with the "angry" vocals in latter-day DT, but I digress....
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Totally disagree with
Stadler MP.
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Grapp, I understand, but all bands say that -- that they are moving forward creatively. The thing is, all bands also get to a point where they deviate from what they are good at, and then stumble and find their way back to the "pocket" for lack of a better term. The fact they don't want to write in a thrash metal style, specifically, is fine. But quite honestly, that is what they are best at. If I want to hear a mid-tempo, grungy song, I'll look at Soundgarden or Alice in Chains, who are better than Metallica. If I want to hear a slow ballad, there's plenty of bands that are superior to Metallica on that. But if I want this technical thrash fest, well, to me, that screams Metallica, because very few do it as well as them.
I am all for experimentation and growth. But when you get too out of the pocket, and think you're better than you really are with whatever you are experimenting with, it helps to get back to what you are good at, and reset who you are. Metallica, at least to my ears, has never quite done that, and as a result, the ride with them has been severely unrewarding over the last 25 years. There are bits that keep getting me back on the train for a quick ride or two (for example, Atlas Rise, Spit Out the Bone). But when you're only liking one or two songs per record, instead of liking almost an entire record, it is what it is. :)
Sam. I love you! That's a great post.
I actually like a ton of Death Magnetic. But it still pales to their abilities. I shouldn't have to wait 7 years to have to drop my Metallica standards just to accept a new album.
They work hard I'm sure. They tour a lot and do very well. But I cannot go on tour with them. But I can buy new albums every couple of years.
I mentioned in the QR thread that QR does the minimum. Well, Metallica does as well.
They have done NOTHING to justify their popularity other than live off of 1983-1991. Not that that doesn't make them different than a lot of other bands.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES CAN I LISTEN TO LIVE VERSIONS OF SEEK AND DESTROY?
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There are so many parallels of Metallica's album arc to other bands, so its not a unique story in the slightest. But I guess for me, I always give thrash bands less leeway to make those changes, because if you're a thrash band, I expect you to THRASH. Eventually, Megadeth came around, and Death Angel got back to it, and Testament got even heavier. But Metallica still has never QUITE returned to the pre-BLack album sound.
That's purely by their design. Metallica are always moving forward creatively and never looking backward, and Justice was that turning point. Sometimes things fail (Lulu, their movie) and sometimes it works well (the live Metallica downloads of every show), but they're always trying to do something new.
Rick Rubin was the first one to get them to try and relive their early feelings on tape with Death Magnetic, which is why it seems so contrived. It was purposely an exercise to try and recapture the old style, yet still trying to keep the creative element moving forward. They couldn't self-edit for shit, so the songs just went on and on. One song was truly a cut and paste job - this section from this new song and that section from that new song. That self editing was rectified with Hardwired and they were more concise with the song lengths.
To me, they don't see themselves as a thrash band, though they were part of the movement. So why limit themselves from a creative standpoint and box themselves in that thrash box, when they have the money and freedom to be unlimited? Can they write thrash, sure? Do they want to? Not specifically.
Grapp, I understand, but all bands say that -- that they are moving forward creatively. The thing is, all bands also get to a point where they deviate from what they are good at, and then stumble and find their way back to the "pocket" for lack of a better term. The fact they don't want to write in a thrash metal style, specifically, is fine. But quite honestly, that is what they are best at. If I want to hear a mid-tempo, grungy song, I'll look at Soundgarden or Alice in Chains, who are better than Metallica. If I want to hear a slow ballad, there's plenty of bands that are superior to Metallica on that. But if I want this technical thrash fest, well, to me, that screams Metallica, because very few do it as well as them.
I am all for experimentation and growth. But when you get too out of the pocket, and think you're better than you really are with whatever you are experimenting with, it helps to get back to what you are good at, and reset who you are. Metallica, at least to my ears, has never quite done that, and as a result, the ride with them has been severely unrewarding over the last 25 years. There are bits that keep getting me back on the train for a quick ride or two (for example, Atlas Rise, Spit Out the Bone). But when you're only liking one or two songs per record, instead of liking almost an entire record, it is what it is. :)
But you can't say "quite honestly"; there's no "honest" in there, it's just your opinion. "Honestly" (just kidding with you), I think their high point is TBA. The earlier stuff is good, I like it, but it's one dimensional compared to TBA. Not everyone is "angry". THEY aren't angry, and their music has to reflect that. I get it, my opinion only, and I understand that, but since TBA seemed to connect with more people - and a more varied cross section of people - I think it's an opinion with some factual backup.
I don't mean this to rag on you personally, far from it, but what keeps YOU on the train may or may not be what is honest and pure for THEM. I feel like Metallica is one of the few bands that deserves kudos for, as the kids say, keeping it real. I think they'd be a tired joke if they were trying to recreate MoP every album out.
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But Stadler, "Keeping it real" is NOT releasing a new album every 7 years, with 90% (slightly exaggerated) of their live show is from the first 3rd (also slightly exaggerated) of their career.
Metallica got comfy at some point....around 1995. TBA has aged wonderfully, and it is well executed.
But Metallica doing another stadium tour in South America does NOTHING for me as a fan. Who fucking cares?
Can they still make good music? Do they care to still make good music?
They were groundbreakers and genre leaders at one point in their career. Only my memory proves that to be true.
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Oh, I won't argue any of that. I was really more focused on the period from, say, "...And Justice..." through "Re-Load", and the stylistic changes. I like Metallica, but I don't love them. I've never seen them live (one of the few bands I haven't) and I wouldn't feel even a second of regret over that if it wasn't for the fact that I love Hetfield and want to see him once. I'd much rather see Iron Maiden any day, honestly.
(Though having said that, Hatfield is number one on my list of guys that I would love to hear a solo album and tour from; I can imagine an album akin to "Year Of The Tiger" and would buy that immediately.)
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God dammit Stads, don't say things like a Hetfield solo album. It's the musical equivalent of blue balls.
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Can they still make good music? Do they care to still make good music?
Yeah they do. Their last record was really good.
If you don't think so, that's cool, but you and Samsara are basically just saying that you like their thrash stuff best. That's more a conversation about you guys than it is Metallica. I know people that prefer the 90's stuff more than the 80's stuff.
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I do like the Death Magnetic and Hardwired. They are good. They are just not "waiting 7 f'n years for it" good. Couple that with the balance of songs in their setlist, apparently, I (or Samsara) am not the only one who prefers their thrash era.
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I could be off here, but I think one of the problems Metallica faces with its post-TBA (and you can include TBA if so inclined) is that a huge component of their pure thrash sound was anger. They were an angry band that sounded like an angry band. But...to put it bluntly, they had success. And they grew up. And there wasn't really anything left to them that resembled that early, hungry, angry band. You could kind of hear on SKOM that they were looking for that. When they came up with the idea of St. Anger as a title, James was just giddy over that. But...despite that there was anger during those sessions, it was a much different type of anger. And trying to sound like they did on their '80s output without that '80s mindset sounds a bit empty and contrived. That is why, to me, although DM and Hardwired had some good moments, as TAC said, they definitely were not "good" in levels commensurate with how long we had to wait for them.
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I could be off here, but I think one of the problems Metallica faces with its post-TBA (and you can include TBA if so inclined) is that a huge component of their pure thrash sound was anger. They were an angry band that sounded like an angry band. But...to put it bluntly, they had success. And they grew up. And there wasn't really anything left to them that resembled that early, hungry, angry band. You could kind of hear on SKOM that they were looking for that. When they came up with the idea of St. Anger as a title, James was just giddy over that. But...despite that there was anger during those sessions, it was a much different type of anger. And trying to sound like they did on their '80s output without that '80s mindset sounds a bit empty and contrived. That is why, to me, although DM and Hardwired had some good moments, as TAC said, they definitely were not "good" in levels commensurate with how long we had to wait for them.
Agree on all of that, except about Hardwired. I think Hardwired was them finding ways to do heavy and stuff but in their current mindset. It felt much more authentic. DM though, totally. Contrived, forced, fake, etc.
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I hate to use "fake" because, to me, that goes just too far into being criticism. To me, it just is what it is. For your point on Hardwired, I'll buy that. I haven't invested much time listening to really dig into it.
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Honestly, my biggest issue is the lack of output.
I didn't care for where they went for TBA or Load. But at least they feel like sincere efforts.
To me, Reload blows chunks, and I just don't understand St. Anger.
I really enjoy Death Magnetic and Hardwired.
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I could be off here, but I think one of the problems Metallica faces with its post-TBA (and you can include TBA if so inclined) is that a huge component of their pure thrash sound was anger. They were an angry band that sounded like an angry band. But...to put it bluntly, they had success. And they grew up. And there wasn't really anything left to them that resembled that early, hungry, angry band. You could kind of hear on SKOM that they were looking for that. When they came up with the idea of St. Anger as a title, James was just giddy over that. But...despite that there was anger during those sessions, it was a much different type of anger. And trying to sound like they did on their '80s output without that '80s mindset sounds a bit empty and contrived. That is why, to me, although DM and Hardwired had some good moments, as TAC said, they definitely were not "good" in levels commensurate with how long we had to wait for them.
Agree on all of that, except about Hardwired. I think Hardwired was them finding ways to do heavy and stuff but in their current mindset. It felt much more authentic. DM though, totally. Contrived, forced, fake, etc.
Yeah I agree with pretty much all that. James famously told Bob Rock during the Load sessions while struggling to come up with lyrics for the remaining songs - "don't worry, I still have a lot of hate left in me". The fact that he had to say that was probably a good indicator he was needing to re-learn how to really approach lyrics.
Honestly, my biggest issue is the lack of output.
I didn't care for where they went for TBA or Load. But at least they feel like sincere efforts.
To me, Reload blows chunks, and I just don't understand St. Anger.
I really enjoy Death Magnetic and Hardwired.
I totally get taking issue with the gap between albums, that I'm on board with. For me, the only Metallica album I don't really enjoy in some way is SA. I like the Loads, DM annoys me in the ways Adami mentioned above, but overall I still like the album a fair amount.
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They released their first 5 albums within 8 years. It has took them 25 years to release the next 5.
I'm sorry. That's a band that's not trying too hard.
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They released their first 5 albums within 8 years. It has took them 25 years to release the next 5.
I'm sorry. That's a band that's not trying too hard.
I disagree.
They toured for about 4 years on TBA (1991/1992/1993/1994). 1995 had sporadic shows, then Load/Reload came out in 96/97 each. More tours, Garage Inc/Symphony releases and respective tours - you can't really blame them for the delay in between the black album and Load. The demand was there to tour for the black album extensively, and they worked that one hard. They did put out the big live box set after that tour too.
Even when Jason quit, it was only a 2 year delay until we got St. Anger. The long delays really happened after St. Anger (5 years to Death Magnetic and another 8 to Hardwired). But they were still very active - they put out Lulu, they put out the 3D movie, they did the 30th anniversary fan club shows with tons of guests and rarely played material. They did the puppets anniversary tour, by request tour, they played in Antarctica, they did a Black Album anniversary tour, they put together and hosted a few Orion music festivals.
So we didn't get true Metallica albums during those long breaks between records, but they were constantly working and touring, and not just standard European tours - each one was generally unique. The premier of a new song, an album anniversary, requests.
I actually agree with Stadler - these guys should be respected for always moving forward, whether fans like the product or not. Believe me, I'd love for them to put out thrash record after thrash record. But if they're not being true to themselves, what's the point (i.e., did anyone really believe that James was angry when he was singing "I'M MADLY IN ANGER WITH YOU!", especially after seeing the new happy-go-lucky version of James in the SKOM movie?).
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They released their first 5 albums within 8 years. It has took them 25 years to release the next 5.
I'm sorry. That's a band that's not trying too hard.
I disagree.
They toured for about 4 years on TBA (1991/1992/1993/1994).
I skipped that to skew my point! ;D
Saying they're not trying hard might be a bit strong. They certainly work hard and put in the time.
But to me, as a music fan, it's about making music. I don't care about them going to Anatartica, European tours, etc... That does nothing for me. They swoop into my area every half dozen years to collect their $100+ per head, and off they go.
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They released their first 5 albums within 8 years. It has took them 25 years to release the next 5.
I'm sorry. That's a band that's not trying too hard, to do the things I want them to do.
I fixed it for you.
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Was there ever any real reason for them to make music at that point? It seemed they weren't in a place inspired to make something they would want to release. It sucks for the fans who want to hear new music, but would you rather them force something and get another potential St. Anger? I think if we know they didn't have juice in the tank to make a new album then we should be happy they toured and did other things to still be productive vs. just taking a hiatus.
At the end of the day, I feel like those years are where I lost my fandom. But I blame it more on what they did release than what they didn't release. I'm still a fan, but Metallica haven't been one of my favorite bands since high school where they released Garage Days and S&M which were great, but that's where the fun seemed to end for me and my relationship with them as being a hardcore fan.
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They released their first 5 albums within 8 years. It has took them 25 years to release the next 5.
I'm sorry. That's a band that's not trying too hard.
Totally, however, as you pointed out, their live show setlists almost exclusively ends at 1991 or so. So, from their perspective, what's the point of making a new album? To add 2 songs to a set list?
I always want more Metallica, but if their live shows are 90% KEA - TBA, then there's not a whole lot of a point.
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I do like the Death Magnetic and Hardwired. They are good. They are just not "waiting 7 f'n years for it" good. Couple that with the balance of songs in their setlist, apparently, I (or Samsara) am not the only one who prefers their thrash era.
We can both be right though; meaning, I agree with you on the lack of output, so there's that, and just because they are literally the best thrash band on the planet (IMO) that doesn't mean that a) they shouldn't grow, and b) they shouldn't do other things. I'm not at all a thrash fan (I listened to the Anthrax greatest hits a couple weeks ago, and literally laughed out loud) but Metallica makes even ME like it a little bit. I'm not ragging on them; quite the opposite. I just don't think it's fair to say that they all of a sudden in 1991 decided to suck and carried through on the promise. :)
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I don't mind them doing other things. I respect the hell out of Load, even though I only like 4 songs from it. It feels sincere, so I'm cool with that.
They released their first 5 albums within 8 years. It has took them 25 years to release the next 5.
I'm sorry. That's a band that's not trying too hard.
Totally, however, as you pointed out, their live show setlists almost exclusively ends at 1991 or so. So, from their perspective, what's the point of making a new album? To add 2 songs to a set list?
I always want more Metallica, but if their live shows are 90% KEA - TBA, then there's not a whole lot of a point.
Right. Not a whole lot of point to it...
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To be fair, on their current tour they are playing 18 songs. They have been doing on average at least 5 songs off their new record (pretty good representation of their new material). They will routinely do at least one song off of the Loads, and they have mixed in one DM song here and there. So that's like 7 songs post TBA.
Their sets have been a little heavy on TBA material, but that's kinda understandable, that's their most successful, well known record and Metallica is one metal band that does pull in a lot of casuals to their shows, definitely not all die-hards. They have been doing like 5 songs off TBA.
So that's on average around 12 songs out of 18 that are TBA and newer.
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They've got a rotation going on their current set lists. I can't complain. Saw them twice between this tour and last year and saw 4 different songs. I feel like for a band with as many hits and classic tracks, it's hard to get a rotation in while still representing the new album. They did a decent job IMO. Below are the songs they rotated between the shows I saw.
Holier Than Thou - The Unforgiven
Blackened - Fight Fire with Fire
Creeping Death - Wherever I May Roam
Hit the Lights - Whiplash
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To be fair, on their current tour they are playing 18 songs. They have been doing on average at least 5 songs off their new record (pretty good representation of their new material). They will routinely do at least one song off of the Loads, and they have mixed in one DM song here and there. So that's like 7 songs post TBA.
Their sets have been a little heavy on TBA material, but that's kinda understandable, that's their most successful, well known record and Metallica is one metal band that does pull in a lot of casuals to their shows, definitely not all die-hards. They have been doing like 5 songs off TBA.
So that's on average around 12 songs out of 18 that are TBA and newer.
Sure, but those sets also rarely change in years and years and years. So of those 12 songs, 1 song is representing two whole albums. That has not really changed since they toured for those albums specifically. St. Anger has been removed from the setlists (fine by me) and they usually play the same 1-2 songs from DM every tour. So they really keep their setlists to lowest common denominator style. "What are the songs the most amount of people will react to?" Turns out those songs are the same every time. It just gets....boring. As someone else said, how many 18 minute renditions of Seek and Destroy do we need?
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Sure, but those sets also rarely change in years and years and years. So of those 12 songs, 1 song is representing two whole albums. That has not really changed since they toured for those albums specifically. St. Anger has been removed from the setlists (fine by me) and they usually play the same 1-2 songs from DM every tour. So they really keep their setlists to lowest common denominator style. "What are the songs the most amount of people will react to?" Turns out those songs are the same every time. It just gets....boring. As someone else said, how many 18 minute renditions of Seek and Destroy do we need?
I too am cool with SA not showing up. I'd like it if they did more songs from DM and the Loads too. I think the important thing to remember is that the set is for the ticket buyer at the show. Not the guys sitting on YouTube watching the show. I know you know this, but I feel like sometimes in this internet age we slide into this thinking that if it's not exciting to watch on my phone because I've seen them play that song before, it's bad. The reason they play those songs is, like you said, they get a huge reaction in the room. Shouldn't that be a good enough reason to keep playing them?
That all said, I'm not saying they are making perfect sets. Like I said, I'd love more Load and ReLoad and DM thrown in. I'd also love more deep cuts. At some point on this tour, they randomly threw in The Unforgiven III and No Leaf Clover... and then didn't play them again. I'd love if they did more songs like those.
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I 100% understand why Metallica do what they do. 100%
I still think it's boring.
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I 100% understand why Metallica do what they do. 100%
I still think it's boring.
:lol I totally get that, generally I do too. Like I said, they gave us a taste of some rarities and then didn't go back to them again, which sucks.
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I think there were more fans seeing metallics for the first time last month when I saw them than people who had seen them before (including my friend). While it's boring to play a lot if the same songs, I dont fault them when that's what the fan base generally wants to see. And they do rotate and even through in a rare song here and there for the hardcore fans. I dont think you fan realistically ask for much more. And that's on top of them already sounding pretty sloppy live.
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Yup. Like I said. I completely understand the reason. I wouldn't argue the logic for a second. And I expect nothing more from them at all.
Still think it's boring.
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Whoever said above that myself and TAC basically said WE prefer the thrash years of Metallica, moreso than Metallica itself, is (speaking for myself) absolutely correct. But I think it stretches down to a point I made earlier that Metallica was the pioneer thrash metal band. When your name is METALLICA, and you built a reputation playing thrash metal, the expectation from fans that became a fan in that initial era (say 82-88), is that you'll stick to your guns. Sorta like that MP quote Scotty put above.
Now, is that a personal preference --- absolutely. But I don't think you can get around that in music. :lol
But I guess when you make four records (KEM, RTL, MOP, AJFA) that are all thrash, that progress stylistically in that same thrash genre, and you pioneer the thrash genre, and then you make a huge artistic shift (which the Black album, and then continuing from there each album), it is jarring. Maybe because thrash is just so brutal, that the right-hand turn to hard rock just doesn't FEEL right.
It's all personal perspective, and I don't mean at all to disparage fans who love that Black album (which I like, but not love) and later material. You connect when you connect, ya know? But I just feel that thrash bands, because of the genre itself, and particularly the band that really started the movement, shouldn't evolve so far away from it.
Totally personal, but that's how I feel.
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But here's the thing. You ARE, of course, correct that your opinion is your opinion, and when it comes to "what you like" that's unassailable. I won't ever question that, except maybe to offer a counter, just for discussion purposes. For me, though, the discussion changes when you say "thrash bands... shouldn't evolve so far away from it". That SOUNDS like an opinion, but it's really not. You're basically telling Metallica what's an appropriate level of development, personal growth, and exploration. We can comment as to whether we like it or not, but only Hetfield, Ulrich, Hammett, and Trujillo (well, Newsted at the time) can tell you what's appropriate. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there wasn't extra-musical reasons for their evolution (meaning, maybe Hetfield, in particular, couldn't emotionally, physically or psychologically have continued down that path) and so at that point, "opinion", while technically, I suppose, correct, becomes something more than that and doesn't really get to be "protected" by an "IMO" at the end.
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But here's the thing. You ARE, of course, correct that your opinion is your opinion, and when it comes to "what you like" that's unassailable. I won't ever question that, except maybe to offer a counter, just for discussion purposes. For me, though, the discussion changes when you say "thrash bands... shouldn't evolve so far away from it". That SOUNDS like an opinion, but it's really not. You're basically telling Metallica what's an appropriate level of development, personal growth, and exploration. We can comment as to whether we like it or not, but only Hetfield, Ulrich, Hammett, and Trujillo (well, Newsted at the time) can tell you what's appropriate. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there wasn't extra-musical reasons for their evolution (meaning, maybe Hetfield, in particular, couldn't emotionally, physically or psychologically have continued down that path) and so at that point, "opinion", while technically, I suppose, correct, becomes something more than that and doesn't really get to be "protected" by an "IMO" at the end.
That's where you're wrong, Stads. I'm not telling "Metallica" anything. I'm saying that in how I feel, thrash bands have a harder sell to someone like me, or metal fans in general, when making big shifts in artistic direction. That's my opinion. I'm not telling Metallica they have to do anything. LOL.
And yeah, there probably are non-musical reasons for the evolution away from thrash. In fact, I'd bet my last dollar it had all to do with money, and striking a crossover audience while the iron was hot and acceptance of heavier music was at a high point. IMO, the Black album is what it is because of one thing -- CA$HING IN. And that's OK. It is their band. They just lost me a little after that, when they kept going down that road, as opposed to gearing back up to thrash again.
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But here's the thing. You ARE, of course, correct that your opinion is your opinion, and when it comes to "what you like" that's unassailable. I won't ever question that, except maybe to offer a counter, just for discussion purposes. For me, though, the discussion changes when you say "thrash bands... shouldn't evolve so far away from it". That SOUNDS like an opinion, but it's really not. You're basically telling Metallica what's an appropriate level of development, personal growth, and exploration. We can comment as to whether we like it or not, but only Hetfield, Ulrich, Hammett, and Trujillo (well, Newsted at the time) can tell you what's appropriate. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there wasn't extra-musical reasons for their evolution (meaning, maybe Hetfield, in particular, couldn't emotionally, physically or psychologically have continued down that path) and so at that point, "opinion", while technically, I suppose, correct, becomes something more than that and doesn't really get to be "protected" by an "IMO" at the end.
That's where you're wrong, Stads. I'm not telling "Metallica" anything. I'm saying that in how I feel, thrash bands have a harder sell to someone like me, or metal fans in general, when making big shifts in artistic direction. That's my opinion. I'm not telling Metallica they have to do anything. LOL.
Well, you're words betray you; when you say someone "shouldn't"... you're basically telling them what to do. Sorry; I'm not looking to pick a fight with you - just the opposite - but why is selling "you" important? That's really what I'm getting at; an artist's job is to sell THEMSELVES. I'm a metal fan, so your opinion about "metal fans in general" is provably wrong: it wasn't a hard sell at all, and in fact, I loved the change. I thought it elevated them from a one-dimensional, one-trick pony to a real band. For all the criticism here, I don't think Anthrax - just by way of example - could make a "Black Album". I don't think they have it in them.
And yeah, there probably are non-musical reasons for the evolution away from thrash. In fact, I'd bet my last dollar it had all to do with money, and striking a crossover audience while the iron was hot and acceptance of heavier music was at a high point. IMO, the Black album is what it is because of one thing -- CA$HING IN. And that's OK. It is their band. They just lost me a little after that, when they kept going down that road, as opposed to gearing back up to thrash again.
Except that almost everything said by the band at the time points AWAY from "cashing in", and in fact it was a big risk at the time. I think they spend some ungodly amount ($1M sticks in my head) and actually remixed it something like three times. I think "cash in" is the one thing one CAN'T claim about the record. That it sold a bazillion isn't evidence that it was a cash in. And this goes back to what I said: selling "you" and sticking to thrash is as much a cash-in as selling a million copies of a less thrash album. The only thing that's not a cash-in is the band doing what they want, not what any segment of their fanbase wants.
Again, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to pick on you, but "in my opinion" is not sacred. I just had a similar discussion about REM; a friend of mine was like "They were great for the first three albums, then sold out and sucked!" Wha? Not only did they NOT "sell out", they actually look back on the next couple of (very popular) albums as the best in their career, and the most polarizing because of the political content (I'm talking about Lifes Rich Pageant, Document, Green, Out of Time and Automatic for the People). Hetfield has been on record as saying that the lyrics on TBA are the most introspective and personal lyrics he'd done up to that point; how can that be a sellout?
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LOL. Dude, I don't take this shit personally. Catch me 10 years ago, sure. But you're not offending me in the slightest.
"In my opinion" IS sacred. I am saying that "this is what I feel." NOT "the band must do this because I decree it so."
If you can't distinguish that in your own mind, then honestly, I don't know what to tell you. Because I'll keep posting what I think, because, well, this is a discussion forum, and what they are meant for. Metallica obviously doesn't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks. They do what they do because they want to do it, and vet it between themselves and their people. I'm just a fan with my own thoughts, same as you. But what I am tired of is you shitting on people for giving an opinion of what they feel about a band or its direction, or what they feel a band should have/should do. That's THE POINT of a music discussion forum -- to do that. Again, no offense is taken (and none meant), but that always seems to be your beef with me, and with others, and honestly Stads, while I get what you're saying, that's your own hang-up, and will make discussion forum conversations troublesome with people.
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Stadler DTF posting template:
1. "I'm not telling you what to think, but [insert post telling people what to think]."
2. "I'm not saying you are 'wrong,' but [insert post opining that the poster is, in Stadler's eyes, most decidedly wrong]."
3. [insert post showing that Stadler's opinion is the polar opposite of the poster] "But we're really not that far apart."
:lol ;)
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:rollin
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Stadler DTF posting template:
1. "I'm not telling you what to think, but [insert post telling people what to think]."
2. "I'm not saying you are 'wrong,' but [insert post opining that the poster is, in Stadler's eyes, most decidedly wrong]."
3. [insert post showing that Stadler's opinion is the polar opposite of the poster] "But we're really not that far apart."
:lol ;)
I'm not saying you're wrong... but....
I have tables and statistics, too.
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:lol Right, I forgot about those.
And: [Canada is always wrong]
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5. Use as many dependent clauses, set off by commas, as possible.
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5. Use as many dependent clauses, set off by commas, as possible.
Are you saying this thread is somehow about me now?
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:lol Right, I forgot about those.
And: [Canada is always wrong]
We're not far apart on this, but, as I have said many times before, that excludes beer, where, because of a) the water, b) history, and c) because Rush says so, they do make good beer.
Sometimes. www.stadlersalwaysright.com/statistics-you-need-to-be-aware-of-to-make-sense-of-his-posts
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I just picked up a ticket to see Metallica later in the month, thus making 13-year-old TOX's dream come true. I am stoked!
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I just picked up a ticket to see Metallica later in the month, thus making 13-year-old TOX's dream come true. I am stoked!
This'll be your first time seeing them?
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A little off topic and might have been posted before but Mike Dawes' cover of One is probably one my favorite versions of the song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGc5in2F_Rg
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Also did anyone ever check out that acoustic show they did not too long ago?
Some of those renditions were just fantastic. Minus Hardwired, which they just did regular...but acoustic. Weird choice.
But their versions of Horsemen and Disposable Heroes was really great, and so were most of the rest. They had some extra musicians which really added to the sound.
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I just picked up a ticket to see Metallica later in the month, thus making 13-year-old TOX's dream come true. I am stoked!
This'll be your first time seeing them?
It is! Definitely a musical dream come true for me. The arena also happens to be across the street from my work, which is super convenient.
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Also did anyone ever check out that acoustic show they did not too long ago?
Some of those renditions were just fantastic. Minus Hardwired, which they just did regular...but acoustic. Weird choice.
But their versions of Horsemen and Disposable Heroes was really great, and so were most of the rest. They had some extra musicians which really added to the sound.
Killer stuff Adami. Like you said, Horsemen and Disposable were great, I didn't even know what songs they were until James started singing. They did post a couple songs from that show on YouTube, for those that want to check it out:
The Four Horsemen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMRAgrGQV6I
Disposable Heroes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ermTPnZ6H7U
All Within My Hands:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmhOIsM4jQE
Adding the extra musicians was a great idea, they filled out the arrangements really well and added some good backing vocals.
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It's available!
http://www.livemetallica.com//live-music/0,682/Metallica-mp3-flac-download-11-3-2018-SF-Masonic-San-Francisco-CA.html
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That's really cool :metal
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That show is also being released on vinyl, although it might be sold out:
https://www.metallica.com/store/helping-hands-vinyl/AWMHBENEFITLP.html
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It's available!
http://www.livemetallica.com//live-music/0,682/Metallica-mp3-flac-download-11-3-2018-SF-Masonic-San-Francisco-CA.html
How is the performance of "Bleeding Me?" It's the only song I'm really interested in having from that show, if it is good. One of the few songs I tolerate from LOAD.
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I don't know. Following the discussion, I checked the site and linked. I'm considering a purchase though.
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It's available!
http://www.livemetallica.com//live-music/0,682/Metallica-mp3-flac-download-11-3-2018-SF-Masonic-San-Francisco-CA.html
How is the performance of "Bleeding Me?" It's the only song I'm really interested in having from that show, if it is good. One of the few songs I tolerate from LOAD.
Bleeding Me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu9dfbszgjI
James sounds fantastic.
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It's available!
http://www.livemetallica.com//live-music/0,682/Metallica-mp3-flac-download-11-3-2018-SF-Masonic-San-Francisco-CA.html
How is the performance of "Bleeding Me?" It's the only song I'm really interested in having from that show, if it is good. One of the few songs I tolerate from LOAD.
THanks!
Bleeding Me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu9dfbszgjI
James sounds fantastic.
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Disposable Heroes sounds like Opeth.
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Based on my experience with the ...And Justice for All box set, I went ahead and bought the one for Master of Puppets. It'll be here Thursday from Amazon. I noticed that on Amazon.co.uk, the set is way more expensive (even after doing the conversion) than it is here. And since the box set is limited and I don't see it for sale on Metallica.com any longer, I figured even though I was on the fence, it would probably be a smart purchase. It looks pretty bad ass. That's probably it for me in terms of Metallica boxes. I'm not a big fan of Kill Em All, and while I like Ride the Lightning, I don't love it as nearly as a complete work as I do Puppets and AJFA.
I'm really looking forward to checking it all out. I have the Back to the Front: A Fully Authorized Visual History of the Master of Puppets Album and Tour book by Matt Taylor, so I am hoping the photos in the MOP box set book don't overlap and the content is different. But the rest of it looks pretty bad ass.
So that'll make three albums for me I've invested in these big boxes - Soundgarden: Badmotorfinger, Metallica: MOP, Metallica: AJFA.
Home runs on the two I have so far, and I expect MOP to be a third...
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Disposable Heroes sounds like Opeth.
Yeah, it's actually pretty obvious that they borrowed heavily from Opeth on that one.
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Based on my experience with the ...And Justice for All box set, I went ahead and bought the one for Master of Puppets. It'll be here Thursday from Amazon. I noticed that on Amazon.co.uk, the set is way more expensive (even after doing the conversion) than it is here. And since the box set is limited and I don't see it for sale on Metallica.com any longer, I figured even though I was on the fence, it would probably be a smart purchase. It looks pretty bad ass. That's probably it for me in terms of Metallica boxes. I'm not a big fan of Kill Em All, and while I like Ride the Lightning, I don't love it as nearly as a complete work as I do Puppets and AJFA.
I'm really looking forward to checking it all out. I have the Back to the Front: A Fully Authorized Visual History of the Master of Puppets Album and Tour book by Matt Taylor, so I am hoping the photos in the MOP box set book don't overlap and the content is different. But the rest of it looks pretty bad ass.
So that'll make three albums for me I've invested in these big boxes - Soundgarden: Badmotorfinger, Metallica: MOP, Metallica: AJFA.
Home runs on the two I have so far, and I expect MOP to be a third...
You'll like it, it's a good set. For me, the only downside of the four released so far is the editing of the text in the books.
And yes, the pricing over here is awful, always has been (except with Justice was on pre-order).
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Disposable Heroes sounds like Opeth.
Yeah, it's actually pretty obvious that they borrowed heavily from Opeth on that one.
:lol
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Based on my experience with the ...And Justice for All box set, I went ahead and bought the one for Master of Puppets. It'll be here Thursday from Amazon. I noticed that on Amazon.co.uk, the set is way more expensive (even after doing the conversion) than it is here. And since the box set is limited and I don't see it for sale on Metallica.com any longer, I figured even though I was on the fence, it would probably be a smart purchase. It looks pretty bad ass. That's probably it for me in terms of Metallica boxes. I'm not a big fan of Kill Em All, and while I like Ride the Lightning, I don't love it as nearly as a complete work as I do Puppets and AJFA.
I'm really looking forward to checking it all out. I have the Back to the Front: A Fully Authorized Visual History of the Master of Puppets Album and Tour book by Matt Taylor, so I am hoping the photos in the MOP box set book don't overlap and the content is different. But the rest of it looks pretty bad ass.
So that'll make three albums for me I've invested in these big boxes - Soundgarden: Badmotorfinger, Metallica: MOP, Metallica: AJFA.
Home runs on the two I have so far, and I expect MOP to be a third...
You'll like it, it's a good set. For me, the only downside of the four released so far is the editing of the text in the books.
And yes, the pricing over here is awful, always has been (except with Justice was on pre-order).
I'm in the U.S., but I've noticed that once in awhile, I can get stuff cheaper in the UK, if I am willing to wait a week or two for it to arrive (which I am usually fine with). But not this time around. My Lord. LOL
Glad you like the set. I'm looking forward to getting it tomorrow. Those will be the only two from Metallica that I buy (I want the RtL one, but honestly, there isn't enough in it for me to justify it), and I'll be pretty happy with it.
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I still haven't even opened the box, but I did download everything (via Amazon rip). All the music is killer. Love the live gigs. Such crazy energy. And Jason's audition was shocking. I mean, they were NOT tight, and James sounded horrendous. Crazy. I mean, to be expected, given the situation, but wow.
Can't wait to dive into the book later this week.
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I still haven't even opened the box, but I did download everything (via Amazon rip). All the music is killer. Love the live gigs. Such crazy energy. And Jason's audition was shocking. I mean, they were NOT tight, and James sounded horrendous. Crazy. I mean, to be expected, given the situation, but wow.
Can't wait to dive into the book later this week.
There have been accounts that James was waaaay beyond drunk for Jason's audition.
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I'm seeing Metallica in Indianapolis on March 11... Rock on.
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I'm seeing Metallica in Indianapolis on March 11... Rock on.
:metal :metal
Don't forget to download your copy of your show afterwards. Use your barcode from the ticket on their website and you get a free download. Pretty awesome perk of a metallica concert if you ask me.
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I'm seeing Metallica in Indianapolis on March 11... Rock on.
:metal :metal
Don't forget to download your copy of your show afterwards. Use your barcode from the ticket on their website and you get a free download. Pretty awesome perk of a metallica concert if you ask me.
Whoa wtf really? That is COOL!
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^ Yep, and the quality of their LiveMet shows has been really good this whole tour cycle. The mixes are really solid.
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I just picked up a ticket to see Metallica later in the month, thus making 13-year-old TOX's dream come true. I am stoked!
This'll be your first time seeing them?
It is! Definitely a musical dream come true for me. The arena also happens to be across the street from my work, which is super convenient.
The show was amazing. It actually set a record for highest attendance at the PNC Arena in Raleigh. I also caught a guitar pick from Rob! Even though I was super tired after a crazy day of work, I am so glad that I went. Definitely a "bucket list" show for me. :metal
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Just copying this post from the Maidenfans forum as it perfectly describes the transition from 80s to 90s Metallica.
Look at it this way — the standard bearers of complex, melodic thrash metal had been finding success on their own terms, playing music that wasn’t really structured for the radio at all, and they had still built up enough of a following to be headlining arena shows. Then they do their first-ever music video and it gets a surprising amount of attention. Good for them.
Now fast forward a couple of years and what happens? The band known for complex song structures, lots of riffs per song, varied tempos, epic harmonized sections, and fairly technical drumming puts out an intentionally radio-friendly album with simplistic song structures, one riff per song, everything pretty close to 120 bpm, wanky solos with too much wah pedal, and simplistic, boring drumming, then churns out the music videos left and right, after saying over and over again back in the day that they’d never do such a thing. They explode on radio and MTV, sell a ridiculous number of albums, and become the darlings of frat houses everywhere. How does that not come off as a sellout?
Then you follow them down the rabbit hole with Load and Reload where they abandon their previous image entirely (logo, physical appearance, etc.), give interviews where they say they’re not a metal band anymore and joke that they should be called “Rockatallica”, put out 160 minutes of music that probably only had about 40-50 minutes of worthwhile material across both albums, and do things like blatantly rehash “Enter Sandman” in the form of “King Nothing”, and do “The Unforgiven II” which rehashes the original song and has Hetfield literally singing “now you’re unforgiven too” in it. Is this ironic performance art? Do they not give a shit? Are they just trolling their casual fans to see what happens? Whatever the interpretation, it sure didn’t look like a creatively inspired band at that point. It looked like they were phoning it in for a payday.
And don’t get me started on St. Anger. That was a bridge too far for most of their fans, including me.
I get that the black album has its fans. It has some really good pop metal songs on it. But if you were already a Metallica fan at that time, it felt like “Metallica For Dummies” — and guess what, a lot of dumb-ass frat boys immediately fell in love with it. Mission accomplished...?
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For what it's worth, I consider The Unforgiven II a wonderful ballad on par with the original, and even though seeing the title on the tracklist makes you go :facepalm:, when you hear the actual song you get how brilliant is the connection.
The Unforgiven III was overkill, but Unforgiven II is awesome. A rare case where the sequel lives up to the original.
Also: where do I have to sign to hear the song live in May when I'll see them? (Please don't answer me on this, I love surprises so I don't want to know if the song is actually in the set, nor "dude, check setlist.fm, they haven't played it since 7 years")
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Just copying this post from the Maidenfans forum as it perfectly describes the transition from 80s to 90s Metallica.
Look at it this way — the standard bearers of complex, melodic thrash metal had been finding success on their own terms, playing music that wasn’t really structured for the radio at all, and they had still built up enough of a following to be headlining arena shows. Then they do their first-ever music video and it gets a surprising amount of attention. Good for them.
Now fast forward a couple of years and what happens? The band known for complex song structures, lots of riffs per song, varied tempos, epic harmonized sections, and fairly technical drumming puts out an intentionally radio-friendly album with simplistic song structures, one riff per song, everything pretty close to 120 bpm, wanky solos with too much wah pedal, and simplistic, boring drumming, then churns out the music videos left and right, after saying over and over again back in the day that they’d never do such a thing. They explode on radio and MTV, sell a ridiculous number of albums, and become the darlings of frat houses everywhere. How does that not come off as a sellout?
Then you follow them down the rabbit hole with Load and Reload where they abandon their previous image entirely (logo, physical appearance, etc.), give interviews where they say they’re not a metal band anymore and joke that they should be called “Rockatallica”, put out 160 minutes of music that probably only had about 40-50 minutes of worthwhile material across both albums, and do things like blatantly rehash “Enter Sandman” in the form of “King Nothing”, and do “The Unforgiven II” which rehashes the original song and has Hetfield literally singing “now you’re unforgiven too” in it. Is this ironic performance art? Do they not give a shit? Are they just trolling their casual fans to see what happens? Whatever the interpretation, it sure didn’t look like a creatively inspired band at that point. It looked like they were phoning it in for a payday.
And don’t get me started on St. Anger. That was a bridge too far for most of their fans, including me.
I get that the black album has its fans. It has some really good pop metal songs on it. But if you were already a Metallica fan at that time, it felt like “Metallica For Dummies” — and guess what, a lot of dumb-ass frat boys immediately fell in love with it. Mission accomplished...?
I think I disagree with almost every point made there. Fun :lol
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I think I disagree with almost every point made there. Fun :lol
How can you disagree with that? It is the truth. How big of a Metallica fan were you when TBA came out?
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Not sure how seriously I can take anyone’s opinion who dismisses Load/Reload as only having 40-50 minutes of good music. Megadeth also simplified considerably with CTE/Youth/CW and nobody seems to call them out on it the same way Metallica is called out. Without TBA, they would’ve treaded water in the 90’s and probably disbanded. Musical landscapes evolve and if you don’t change with them, you’re going to be left behind. If Rush released Xanadu in 1981, they probably would not have survived either.
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Not sure how seriously I can take anyone’s opinion who dismisses Load/Reload as only having 40-50 minutes of good music. Megadeth also simplified considerably with CTE/Youth/CW and nobody seems to call them out on it the same way Metallica is called out. Without TBA, they would’ve treaded water in the 90’s and probably disbanded. Musical landscapes evolve and if you don’t change with them, you’re going to be left behind. If Rush released Xanadu in 1981, they probably would not have survived either.
So, I certainly noticed the change in Megadeth on CTE. At the time, I thought they were copying Metallica's formula on TBA. I quit on Megadeth when Youthanasia came out. Now it has aged well, but at the time, it was a huge turn off.
You're right about Metallica treading water if they didn't change direction, so at least you're honest about it. Some people call that selling out. That's OK. It is what it is.
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I'm not the biggest fan of Load and definitively not of Reload, but it could be said that the real sellout move would have been to capitalize on the Black Album and release another disc in the same vein and style. After having sold gazillion of records with the Black Album, it was risky to change once again style.
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I respected what they did on Load.
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I can pretty much agree with this:
Look at it this way — the standard bearers of complex, melodic thrash metal had been finding success on their own terms, playing music that wasn’t really structured for the radio at all, and they had still built up enough of a following to be headlining arena shows. Then they do their first-ever music video and it gets a surprising amount of attention. Good for them.
Now fast forward a couple of years and what happens? The band known for complex song structures, lots of riffs per song, varied tempos, epic harmonized sections, and fairly technical drumming puts out an intentionally radio-friendly album with simplistic song structures, one riff per song, everything pretty close to 120 bpm, wanky solos with too much wah pedal, and simplistic, boring drumming, then churns out the music videos left and right, after saying over and over again back in the day that they’d never do such a thing. They explode on radio and MTV, sell a ridiculous number of albums...
I mean, yeah, it was a change in direction. But it wasn't quite the huge one he is making it out to be. I think the bigger problem with the post is indirectly revealed here:
...and become the darlings of frat houses everywhere. How does that not come off as a sellout?
I think "become the darlings of frat houses everywhere" is a big tell. He's putting down people that liked that era of the band. Why? Because he subjectively thinks that the change in direction was somehow objectively bad or a dumbing down of the band. And that's where his view goes off the rails. He couches it in terms of opinion. But there is enough there to infer that what he is really arguing is that he thinks he is somehow objectively right and that Metallica from 1990 onward is objectively inferior.
Same thing when he goes on about Load and Reload:
Then you follow them down the rabbit hole with Load and Reload where they abandon their previous image entirely (logo, physical appearance, etc.), give interviews where they say they’re not a metal band anymore and joke that they should be called “Rockatallica”, put out 160 minutes of music that probably only had about 40-50 minutes of worthwhile material across both albums, and do things like blatantly rehash “Enter Sandman” in the form of “King Nothing”, and do “The Unforgiven II” which rehashes the original song and has Hetfield literally singing “now you’re unforgiven too” in it. Is this ironic performance art? Do they not give a shit? Are they just trolling their casual fans to see what happens? Whatever the interpretation, it sure didn’t look like a creatively inspired band at that point. It looked like they were phoning it in for a payday.
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Just copying this post from the Maidenfans forum as it perfectly describes the transition from 80s to 90s Metallica.
Look at it this way — the standard bearers of complex, melodic thrash metal had been finding success on their own terms, playing music that wasn’t really structured for the radio at all, and they had still built up enough of a following to be headlining arena shows. Then they do their first-ever music video and it gets a surprising amount of attention. Good for them.
Now fast forward a couple of years and what happens? The band known for complex song structures, lots of riffs per song, varied tempos, epic harmonized sections, and fairly technical drumming puts out an intentionally radio-friendly album with simplistic song structures, one riff per song, everything pretty close to 120 bpm, wanky solos with too much wah pedal, and simplistic, boring drumming, then churns out the music videos left and right, after saying over and over again back in the day that they’d never do such a thing. They explode on radio and MTV, sell a ridiculous number of albums, and become the darlings of frat houses everywhere. How does that not come off as a sellout?
Then you follow them down the rabbit hole with Load and Reload where they abandon their previous image entirely (logo, physical appearance, etc.), give interviews where they say they’re not a metal band anymore and joke that they should be called “Rockatallica”, put out 160 minutes of music that probably only had about 40-50 minutes of worthwhile material across both albums, and do things like blatantly rehash “Enter Sandman” in the form of “King Nothing”, and do “The Unforgiven II” which rehashes the original song and has Hetfield literally singing “now you’re unforgiven too” in it. Is this ironic performance art? Do they not give a shit? Are they just trolling their casual fans to see what happens? Whatever the interpretation, it sure didn’t look like a creatively inspired band at that point. It looked like they were phoning it in for a payday.
And don’t get me started on St. Anger. That was a bridge too far for most of their fans, including me.
I get that the black album has its fans. It has some really good pop metal songs on it. But if you were already a Metallica fan at that time, it felt like “Metallica For Dummies” — and guess what, a lot of dumb-ass frat boys immediately fell in love with it. Mission accomplished...?
Yeah, I've been clear that I'm not the hugest Metallica fan on the planet. I'm, I guess, that "dumb-ass frat boy", because while my roommate was hardcore - sleeping out for the vinyl release of ...And Justice For All at the time - and I knew the material, I thought then and still do that they wanted to be Iron Maiden and didn't have the horsepower. When I heard The Black Album, and bought it (my first Met album), it showed me they WEREN'T one-dimensional. That James could actually SING. That Lars could actually drum to the SONG as opposed to sounding like a machine gun. That there WAS a bass player in the band. That Kirk could - barely, let's not get crazy - do something other than this trebly 'weedly weedly" noise where the solo should be. That they could write songs that weren't just "acoustic intro, bangin' riff, vocals that sounded like they were coming over two cans and a string, more riff, weedly weedly solo, more riff, end." That they could talk about real things I could relate to; that's on me (I had just graduated college, and moved sight unseen to California, so felt kinship with "Wherever I May Roam" and "Nothing Else Matters", in a way I didn't with things like "Master of Puppets".)
Yeah, some of that is hyperbolic, but it's getting a little tired hearing about how the "pure" Metallica fans got so fucked over because "their" band wanted to make an album that didn't sound like the two they made before ("two" because to me, RtL and MoP were the same album and to this day I don't think I've ever heard Kill 'Em All in it's entirety, straight through, though I know most of the songs). TBA was the album that told me that James was the real deal, that he had vision and ambition and that artistic need to follow his muse as opposed to doing what was expected of him. Sure, some of it was uncomfortable, but that's sometimes what art should be. Some of the best art is made when there's conflict.
I personally think that calling TBA a "sellout" is revisionist history; there was no guarantee that was going to be a success, and they were HEAVILY invested in it, both in time and money (what, something like four remixes and a $1M recording tab?). I also know that they CONNECTED with people, and what artist doesn't want to connect with people? I've noted this before, but their performance of "Enter Sandman" on "Later...with Jools Holland" is a must see (I tried to find a yootoob link but couldn't; google "Metallica Ender Sandman Later Jools Holland" and you'll get it, though the first link the video and audio were not in sync). They CRUSHED it. For those that don't know, it's the old Squeeze keyboard player and he hosts a sort of "musical roundtable" where 4 to 6 acts are in a circle and they all take turns playing. 99% of the time (even with Sir Paul McCartney, Elton John, Noel Gallagher, Robert Plant) the other acts sit respectfully and listen. Here, they cut to VV Brown (a UK indie singer), and she's dancing away, and Nicole Atkins (American indie/singer songwriter from Jersey) and she's smiling, singing along and dancing. Later they cut to one of the other bands, and they are literally playing along, jamming to the music. I used to tape that show (and boot the sound to my iPod) and that is far and away the most riveting, energetic performance I've seen on that show (only one close, Rival Sons).
I don't mean any of this to be argumentative, confrontational, or demeaning to anyone's opinion. I respect those that feel left out, the same way I feel about Def Leppard in a sense. This post is only meant to provide an alternate way of looking at this without resorting to bashing the band, bashing the fans that like what the band did, or dividing between "B.C." ("Before Commerciality") and "A.D." ("After Disloyalty").
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I love Load and ReLoad. Only filler track from those two albums is Better Than You.
The Black Album was my gateway album to metal, but it has aged rather badly for me.
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The Metallica debate, for me, can be summed up like this.
After AJFA, they realized they couldn't go anywhere different with thrash metal. They took it as progressive and technical that they could do with Justice (which is the reason its my favorite from them), and they also realized that by sticking to that high-speed, technical blitz, they'd do well, but not explode. Someone at the time, or perhaps it was within the band members, realized that if they got a warmer, fatter, less technical sound, they could be worldwide icons across both metal and hard rock. They saw the success other bands were having going that route (they absolutely saw the success GnR had with Appetite, and I have to imagine they saw Queensryche sell 3.5 million with Empire, since they had the same management company at the time, among others).
So, they did exactly what everyone accuses them of doing -- they "sold out," or more accurately, they simply "slowed and dumbed down" the music, and polished a bit. Took off some of the edge. In all honesty, I totally understand WHY they did it. And, like they knew it would, it worked in a huge way, and they became global icons and rich as one could possibly be. And they've sort of tried to navigate that ever since, trying to morph their sound into what's accepted at the time, to build on what became a multi-million dollar empire.
As a fan, I'm not mad at them, but realize the band I loved stopped with ...And Justice for All. Yeah, there are songs I love from all Metallica records, including St. Anger (even though it sounds like dog shit). But the vibe of the band is what I sort of refer to as "corporate hard rock/metal." It's all about the BRAND, as opposed to the BAND. Sure, they talk a good game, but when it comes down to it, I don't believe for a second anything they have done post-Justice has been purely artistic. It all has a business-bent to it.
Luckily for them, a lot of people love what they've done, artistically. I mean hell, most of post-Black album stuff doesn't even sound like the same band that did Puppets, but there are still some really good songs on it. Bleeding Me comes to mind immediately. And you give them credit for writing some really good songs after Justice (the Black album is OK, its just too polished for my tastes, for a thrash band).
And that last statement brings me to my final point, which I have said quite a few times over the years. Like it or not, when you name your band METALLICA, and you spend the first four albums of your career literally defining the sub-genre of thrash metal, seeking to play faster and heavier than everyone, you're pigeon-holed. Thrash bands, for me personally, have very little leeway in deviating from their sound. You expect a thrash band, well, to thrash. Heavy. Aggressive. All of that. Even Metallica's ballads were heavy through the Justice record.
That's why when I look at bands like Metallica, Megadeth, Testament, Death Angel, etc., when they get softer and less aggressive, I like them less. That doesn't mean some of it doesn't work. For example, I think Megadeth really sounded pretty damn good with Youthansia, but everything felt almost at the same tempo, which was a tick slower, and a bit of a bummer. Countdown to me, was acceptable, because the songs were still fast and heavy, just a little more polished. But after Youthanasia...Megadeth spiraled for a bit.
Simply put, for me, thrash bands need to always thrash. They don't have (again, this is all personal opinion on how I view music) the leeway of progressive metal bands like Dream Theater, Fates Warning, and the original lineup of Queensryche; or the other sub-genres to deviate greatly. I don't know why I feel that way. But thrash bands, particularly Metallica, who defined the genre, to me, need to stay heavy and aggressive. And when they don't, it raises eyebrows, big time.
And if you go back to 1991, looking at it in retrospect, coming off of Justice, no band in the world was as heavy as Metallica. Sure, you had Slayer, you had Anthrax, and other thrash bands and the death metal movement, and lots of stuff happening. But Metallica in 1988-1989 was the most bad ass band on the planet in terms of speed and brutality. I don't blame fans (who Metallica groomed up to the Black album as more family, and that they were "a part" of things) for revolting, and feeling betrayed -- they were. And some fans were ok with it, and accepted it. But a lot of the hardcore ones really had a hard time with it.
It was a normal reaction, but much, much bigger, because of Metallica's incredible rise to fame.
To a lesser extent, Queensryche did it with Empire. But then again, Queensryche was never playing brutality fast thrash metal, so while there was some push back, it was generally accepted. Metallica...not so much.
I still call myself a Metallica fan. But I always qualify it by saying "I'm a fan of the band's work through ...And Justice for All. After that, it is hit and miss for me." Because that's simply the truth. To deny the quality of some of their work after they stopped being a thrash band would be foolhardy, IMO. But the reaction of people to such an abrupt change is understandable.
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That's why when I look at bands like Metallica, Megadeth, Testament, Death Angel, etc., when they get softer and less aggressive, I like them less. That doesn't mean some of it doesn't work. For example, I think Megadeth really sounded pretty damn good with Youthansia, but everything felt almost at the same tempo, which was a tick slower, and a bit of a bummer. Countdown to me, was acceptable, because the songs were still fast and heavy, just a little more polished. But after Youthanasia...Megadeth spiraled for a bit.
And for me, when [bands] "get softer and less aggressive", I like them more; so how do I get stuck with derogatory terms like "sellout" and "dumbed down"? I don't mean this personally to you, but as debate, how do YOU get to clarify what's legit and what's not? And by your standard you've trashed literally ALL the output of bands like Pink Floyd, which ditched the blues/psychedelia (for which they were named) after literally an album and a half, THEN ditched the space-rock/psychedelia after about four albums, then put out four of the most iconic records by any band EVER. Even better example: THE BEATLES (who mispelled "Beetle" to incorporate "beat", because they viewed themselves as a "beat" group and even contributed to the "Mersey Beat" sound) who ditched their origins after about album four and became, well, the FUCKING BEATLES.
Why would you WANT your band to be limited? Why would you WANT James to continue thrashing out the same riffs and same ideas over and over? What's the point of that? Isn't "art" about self-expression, growth, progress, and digging deep?
Simply put, for me, thrash bands need to always thrash. They don't have (again, this is all personal opinion on how I view music) the leeway of progressive metal bands like Dream Theater, Fates Warning, and the original lineup of Queensryche; or the other sub-genres to deviate greatly. I don't know why I feel that way. But thrash bands, particularly Metallica, who defined the genre, to me, need to stay heavy and aggressive. And when they don't, it raises eyebrows, big time.
I totally get that it's your opinion but why can't you (collective, not you personally) at least express your opinions without slagging off ("dumb-ass frat boy") those whose opinions differ from yours? I'm almost 180 degrees from you on this - respectfully, always, because I have a high regard for your personal musical viewpoint - but why does that make me a "dumb-ass frat boy", who, apparently, can't tell the difference between authentic genre-creating work and shallow commercial pandering?
And if you go back to 1991, looking at it in retrospect, coming off of Justice, no band in the world was as heavy as Metallica. Sure, you had Slayer, you had Anthrax, and other thrash bands and the death metal movement, and lots of stuff happening.
And in contrast? I think Slayer is a joke. A cartoon. Seriously. A couple internet radio guys (Joe and Brad from Used Bin Radio) used to always sing the "Entrance of the Gladiators" (the circus theme, for those that don't know) whenever they talked about Slayer, and I thought that was so spot on. Tom Araya can't distance himself enough from the lyrical content, and so to me there's no heart there. No emotion, certainly no personal searching, whereas you can literally hear the angst of James as he "never opened [himself] that way" and proclaimed that "live is ours we live it our way!"
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Way to completely miss the point of his post, Stadler.
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Way to completely miss the point of his post, Stadler.
There's no chart!
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Stads, nothing taken personally. But to make sure its clear, I did in no way label you a "dumb-ass frat boy" nor did I say that specifically. I would never do that. And I don't feel that way. Someone else said that. So you're mixing my thoughts in with an insult I never said.
In addition, while you were obviously offended by the comment from the person who posted that, you went ahead and just insulted Slayer fans by saying:
I think Slayer is a joke. A cartoon. Seriously.
Was that really necessary?
As to your points quoting me, I'm just sharing my own way of looking at the whole Metallica "thing." I really don't care if people agree or disagree. I'm just adding my own thoughts on a topic that has been discussed for 30 years.
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Stads, nothing taken personally. But to make sure its clear, I did in no way label you a "dumb-ass frat boy" nor did I say that specifically. I would never do that. And I don't feel that way. Someone else said that. So you're mixing my thoughts in with an insult I never said.
In addition, while you were obviously offended by the comment from the person who posted that, you went ahead and just insulted Slayer fans by saying:
I think Slayer is a joke. A cartoon. Seriously.
Was that really necessary?
As to your points quoting me, I'm just sharing my own way of looking at the whole Metallica "thing." I really don't care if people agree or disagree. I'm just adding my own thoughts on a topic that has been discussed for 30 years.
No, you're right, you didn't. But - and I tried to show this with the repeated "nothing personal's" - generally speaking the vibe - collective, not just from you - is that Metallica were an authentic, to-the-bone, band with heart, integrity, and legitimacy, and then all of a sudden they weren't, and I don't understand that. And the repeated reference to "dumb ass frat boy" wasn't to mix insults, or to attribute that to you (and I apologize for that confusion) but rather to point out that to many, Metallica's fall from grace was aided and abetted by a certain kind of fan. A LESSER fan, both in terms of authenticity and knowledge.
As for Slayer, well, self-editing hurt me there; I was commenting on the authenticity of the band, and how it's dicey to speculate on that based simply on whether they "stick to a pattern" or not. It was really meant in comparison to Metallica more than anything. Neil Young and AC/DC are both lauded for being "authentic" and avoiding selling out, and in literally the exact opposite way. I in no way insulted any fans of theirs (a good friend of mine here actually sent me a video from his attendance at a Slayer show only a couple months ago). I'm a Kiss fan for god's sake (and one who supports the Tommy/Eric lineup to boot), so I certainly get that people can like things for various reasons or no reason at all.
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Way to completely miss the point of his post, Stadler.
Well, I probably did, but that's nothing new. I tried to explain where I was coming from. It's not personal; I have a very deep respect for Samsara and his musical opinions. I just think the term "sell out" implies negative intent on the part of the band, and casts aspersion on the fans that like that direction. Just pointing that out.
(And we haven't even mentioned the time period yet; if you want to talk "sell out" I think talking about all the bands that hopped on the grunge bandwagon - can you say "Carnival Of Souls"? - is more fertile ground.)
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No, you're right, you didn't. But - and I tried to show this with the repeated "nothing personal's" - generally speaking the vibe - collective, not just from you - is that Metallica were an authentic, to-the-bone, band with heart, integrity, and legitimacy, and then all of a sudden they weren't, and I don't understand that.
What's so hard to understand, Stads? Metallica were a band hungry for success, angry at the world, poor, just riding the wave. They finally got legit success and money during the JUSTICE tour. That changed them. Happens with many bands. And then they made artistic decisions that deviated from that to maximize what they and their team thought would lead to even further success. It did. In a huge way. It just left a sour taste in the mouth of some fans, and that taste is still there, 30 years later.
I think I explained why I am in that category, all these years later, as best I can above. For me personally, its just the type of music they played. For some reason, I just don't give thrash bands as much latitude as some others in the rock and metal world. Particularly Metallica. They basically invented a genre, and then walked away from it, and expected people to follow. And yes, they gained LEGIONS of diehards by doing so. But they left people like me behind a bit for all the reasons I said above. And I realize those reasons aren't quite logical. But that doesn't mean they aren't still legitimate. It's how I feel. And in music, how you feel is how you go. So...
And the repeated reference to "dumb ass frat boy" wasn't to mix insults, or to attribute that to you (and I apologize for that confusion) but rather to point out that to many, Metallica's fall from grace was aided and abetted by a certain kind of fan. A LESSER fan, both in terms of authenticity and knowledge.
Apology accepted, but there you go again. Would *I* be considered a "lesser" fan, just because I think Metallica's fall from grace is absolutely legitimate? I don't take offense personally, because I know you aren't trying to attack ME, but your comment slags on people that...don't agree with you. Even if that's not your intent, that's what you're doing with comments like that. I know you can see that, and maybe you're just having an off day in terms of writing, but I think your comment is uncalled for, because you're slagging others for not thinking the same way YOU do. And that's one of your biggest pet peeves -- when people do the same thing you're doing here. I know that's probably not what you're trying to convey, but you sorta ARE conveying that with what you're writing.
Using myself as an example (again, I personally have taken no offense), I am in no way a "lesser" fan, and have a ton of knowledge about music from both a fan and business standpoint (I'm a hack singer, not a musician, so I won't say artistic). So, I could see why someone who perhaps shares my opinion would really take issue with what you said.
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I get what they are both saying.
The difference here is that it IS possible to change and grow without losing your edge or dumbing down. Sepultura were at a similar artistic crossroads. They had just released two iconic thrash albums (Beneath the Remains and Arise) But were in danger of repeating themselves. But rather than following everyone else’s trend, they sought out slower and more tribal influences and released the amazing (and critically praised) Chaos AD. Now....if Metallica had done something akin to that, they probably would not have sold a gajillion albums, but they would have continued a slow build on their existing fan base rather than trading them out for a different fan base.
Stadler....your Beatles reference misses the mark because they were never trend followers. They remained trend SETTERS. Which was my problem with Metallica and the black album. They ceased being trend setters, and started a course of being trend followers.
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Just copying this post from the Maidenfans forum as it perfectly describes the transition from 80s to 90s Metallica.
Look at it this way — the standard bearers of complex, melodic thrash metal had been finding success on their own terms, playing music that wasn’t really structured for the radio at all, and they had still built up enough of a following to be headlining arena shows. Then they do their first-ever music video and it gets a surprising amount of attention. Good for them.
Now fast forward a couple of years and what happens? The band known for complex song structures, lots of riffs per song, varied tempos, epic harmonized sections, and fairly technical drumming puts out an intentionally radio-friendly album with simplistic song structures, one riff per song, everything pretty close to 120 bpm, wanky solos with too much wah pedal, and simplistic, boring drumming, then churns out the music videos left and right, after saying over and over again back in the day that they’d never do such a thing. They explode on radio and MTV, sell a ridiculous number of albums, and become the darlings of frat houses everywhere. How does that not come off as a sellout?
Then you follow them down the rabbit hole with Load and Reload where they abandon their previous image entirely (logo, physical appearance, etc.), give interviews where they say they’re not a metal band anymore and joke that they should be called “Rockatallica”, put out 160 minutes of music that probably only had about 40-50 minutes of worthwhile material across both albums, and do things like blatantly rehash “Enter Sandman” in the form of “King Nothing”, and do “The Unforgiven II” which rehashes the original song and has Hetfield literally singing “now you’re unforgiven too” in it. Is this ironic performance art? Do they not give a shit? Are they just trolling their casual fans to see what happens? Whatever the interpretation, it sure didn’t look like a creatively inspired band at that point. It looked like they were phoning it in for a payday.
And don’t get me started on St. Anger. That was a bridge too far for most of their fans, including me.
I get that the black album has its fans. It has some really good pop metal songs on it. But if you were already a Metallica fan at that time, it felt like “Metallica For Dummies” — and guess what, a lot of dumb-ass frat boys immediately fell in love with it. Mission accomplished...?
I think I disagree with almost every point made there. Fun :lol
Wow...notwithstanding the generalized insults directed at certain classes of persons, I think what DT wrote (or, if I understood correctly, quoted from another site) is about as succinct and accurate as possible. We waited a full three years after AJFA (a long time at the time) to get the black album?! It was ok, but the best songs on the black album are on the same level as second or third tier songs on RTL and MOP. And Load was so bad that I returned it to the record store after only one or maybe two listens (40-50 minutes of "worthwhile material" on Load and Reload is being excessively generous -- I'd peg it at more like 4:30).
I don't really get wrapped up in the whole "sellout" thing, but I can't think of a single argument that that's not what happened. As for me, they just stopped making music I wanted to listen to, and I moved on, but it was highly disappointing since Metallica was the one "thrash" band that I really loved, and the change happened just as they were starting to get even more interesting.
Stadler....your Beatles reference misses the mark because they were never trend followers. They remained trend SETTERS. Which was my problem with Metallica and the black album. They ceased being trend setters, and started a course of being trend followers.
Spot on.
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I can't speak for Samsara, but I know for me, the band strayed too far from their core sound so that they were no longer the band that I had an interest in, and I speak as someone who became a fan in late '86. Personally, I was able to deal with TBA, because while it was more streamlined than their last few albums, it still sounded like Metallica overall, if a bit more straight forward. But when Load dropped, and especially that first single (Until It Sleeps), I was aghast and lost all interest in following them further.
As for Slayer, well, self-editing hurt me there; I was commenting on the authenticity of the band, and how it's dicey to speculate on that based simply on whether they "stick to a pattern" or not. It was really meant in comparison to Metallica more than anything.
But here's the thing, there is evidence that Metallica wasn't necessarily being "authentic" in their progression to Load and ReLoad. I know there are quotes of James stating that Load and ReLoad were all Lars and Kirk's doing, and that he simply went along with it, and that especially now (altho I think to a degree even back then), he regrets what happened. A lot of that had to do with their image (cutting their hair and wearing make up, etc. as flipping the finger to their old-school hard core fans) but you can be sure that the mentality bled into their actual musical output too. Doesn't sound very "authentic" to me.
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But here's the thing, there is evidence that Metallica wasn't necessarily being "authentic" in their progression to Load and ReLoad. I know there are quotes of James stating that Load and ReLoad were all Lars and Kirk's doing, and that he simply went along with it, and that especially now (altho I think to a degree even back then), he regrets what happened. A lot of that had to do with their image (cutting their hair and wearing make up, etc. as flipping the finger to their old-school hard core fans) but you can be sure that the mentality bled into their actual musical output too. Doesn't sound very "authentic" to me.
But that's what happens to most bands. Is every member of every band 100% on board with every decision on every album? Nah. James is not a push over. I doubt he'd be like "I am 100% against this idea and thinks it's awful, but because that little Dane and a guitarist who would say yes to anything I asked told me to do this, I will concede." He was obviously on board enough. Honestly, he may not have been 100% on board with everything, which is fine, but I get the feeling a lot of those statements are because he recognized the back lash and is trying to speak to the fans who didn't like it.
As far as selling out, I don't see Black album or Loads as sell outs. I see them as trying new things.
I see Death Magnetic as closer to selling out. It felt like they said "fans want fast and heavy, so let's just do that" and that's what they did.
Hardwired felt like a more authentic heavy Metallica album. And say what you want for St. Anger (still think it's mostly awful) it was pretty damn authentic to the weird space they were at at the time.
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But here's the thing, there is evidence that Metallica wasn't necessarily being "authentic" in their progression to Load and ReLoad. I know there are quotes of James stating that Load and ReLoad were all Lars and Kirk's doing, and that he simply went along with it, and that especially now (altho I think to a degree even back then), he regrets what happened. A lot of that had to do with their image (cutting their hair and wearing make up, etc. as flipping the finger to their old-school hard core fans) but you can be sure that the mentality bled into their actual musical output too. Doesn't sound very "authentic" to me.
Those quotes from James were in regards to artwork and band image, not the music.
Lots of posts here, my easy summary is this - if anyone here thinking TBA and Loads weren't authentic, then you frankly don't know much about James Hetfield. Like him or not, his music is as authentic as it gets. As Adami mentioned, their least authentic record wasn't from the 90's (it was DM) and even that, James generally wanted to go that direction anyway. Their "Producer" just pushed it a little far.
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I'm aware of Hetfield's leanings. I'm just saying after Justice, they made a conscious effort to morph the band's sound. And that's what they did. On purpose. That's not just a natural progression. It was a conscious effort to do so.
I think jammindude summed it up nicely when he said Metallica were always trendsetters. And starting with TBA, they became trend followers. That's exactly on-point. They aren't the first, and the aren't the last. It's almost expected to a degree. But from my perspective, when your name has METAL in it, and you started basically an entire subgenre of thrash metal, there are, to a degree, expectations. Again, as Jammindude said, if they would have expanded from Justice by adding other elements to their sound, that would be one thing. But they didn't. They dumbed down their sound. On purpose. For money.
And again, many bands do it. Most do. But with Metallica, for the reasons above, at least for me, was the worst offender. They took their thrash flag and torched it. Just always sits wrong for me.
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Of course they made a conscious decision to change their sound. They felt like they pushed it as far as they could.
Again, most bands have done this. If it's a internal decision for reasons other than "well...we don't like this but it will make us more money" then it's not selling out. I don't think they could have predicted that TBA would have been so big. It's easy to look back with 20/20 and say they planned it all out, but I don't think that's true. I think they took a huge gamble and it paid off.
Dream Theater made a decision to change their sound multiple times. ToT was a conscious effort to sound a certain way. No one said it was a sell out.
The fact that TBA hit it big doesn't make it a sell out.
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Yeah, I mean not every band stays 100% true to their original sounds. Those that do practically stand out for doing that. AC/DC has maintained that same core sound through thick and thin. Sons of Apollo appear to be headed that same direction, judging from how similar Viper King sounds to their first album.
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No, you're right, you didn't. But - and I tried to show this with the repeated "nothing personal's" - generally speaking the vibe - collective, not just from you - is that Metallica were an authentic, to-the-bone, band with heart, integrity, and legitimacy, and then all of a sudden they weren't, and I don't understand that.
What's so hard to understand, Stads? Metallica were a band hungry for success, angry at the world, poor, just riding the wave. They finally got legit success and money during the JUSTICE tour. That changed them. Happens with many bands. And then they made artistic decisions that deviated from that to maximize what they and their team thought would lead to even further success. It did. In a huge way. It just left a sour taste in the mouth of some fans, and that taste is still there, 30 years later.
It's hard for me to understand because it runs afoul of what the band themselves said. They didn't have any fun on the "...And Justice" tour. They wanted to progress. They were feeling inadequate as musicians. They wanted to put more personal ideas in their songs. When James says "I don't care what other people think, I have to write for myself", I'm not sure how that translates into searching for "success". I'm not sure how spending $1M on remixes, and having three of the four members go through divorces during recording translates into "selling out".
I think I explained why I am in that category, all these years later, as best I can above. For me personally, its just the type of music they played. For some reason, I just don't give thrash bands as much latitude as some others in the rock and metal world. Particularly Metallica. They basically invented a genre, and then walked away from it, and expected people to follow. And yes, they gained LEGIONS of diehards by doing so. But they left people like me behind a bit for all the reasons I said above. And I realize those reasons aren't quite logical. But that doesn't mean they aren't still legitimate. It's how I feel. And in music, how you feel is how you go. So...
Well, let me be very clear: I do not at all think your reasons are illegitimate. Everyone's reasons for liking a band are unique to them. And in case you care, I have bands like that as well. Scorpions. LOVE the Roth years, LOVE the '80's Rarebell years. Literally do not listen to anything after "Winds Of Change". Michael Schenker; guitar god, and one of my favorites, but if Gary Barden isn't singing, I'm not interested. Kiss; it shouldn't matter, because "makeup" doesn't play notes, but I far far prefer the music made with the makeup on (even the post-reunion stuff) than with it off. Ritchie Blackmore: my favorite musician of all time; do I wish he would call Joe Lynn Turner and fire up the Rainbow again? Sure thing. But that's not his nature. I can dream, but that doesn't mean that his Renaissance music (or the Ronnie Romero incarnation) is any less his expression, nor are the fans that crave that any less qualified to weigh in.
Apology accepted, but there you go again. Would *I* be considered a "lesser" fan, just because I think Metallica's fall from grace is absolutely legitimate? I don't take offense personally, because I know you aren't trying to attack ME, but your comment slags on people that...don't agree with you. Even if that's not your intent, that's what you're doing with comments like that. I know you can see that, and maybe you're just having an off day in terms of writing, but I think your comment is uncalled for, because you're slagging others for not thinking the same way YOU do. And that's one of your biggest pet peeves -- when people do the same thing you're doing here. I know that's probably not what you're trying to convey, but you sorta ARE conveying that with what you're writing.
No, I think you might have misunderstood the "lesser"; I wasn't calling anyone a "lesser" fan, and CERTAINLY not you. I was noting that OTHERS have been using that to describe certain Metallica fans, mainly ME. I personally try very hard to not qualify fans that way. I went to Maiden a couple months ago (met up with Cram and his friend, who are hard core Maiden fans) and we hung with some people that barely could name three songs. So what? Join the party! I think I'm clean here, because I've written about this before with regard to my daughter: she LOVES Taylor Swift and Panic! At The Disco. And I've been pretty clear with her: you like what you like, but like what you like with PASSION, and don't apologize. If Taylor Swift puts goosebumps on your arm, then so be it, OWN IT. And she does. (And to her credit, she has actively searched out the influencers of her music, namely Queen and Fleetwood Mac, and she likes that too).
Let's take this out of the personal for a second. If the conversation was "hey, Metallica put out three thrash albums, and because I love thrash I find them stellar. Then they put out three hard rock albums, and because I'm not the hugest fan, they do little for me", I wouldn't even have replied. That, in fact, is how I feel about Metallica (but in reverse). I am not objecting to you or your opinion, nor am I casting aspersions on your fandom. AT ALL. I am merely pointing out that when words like "sell out" and "dumb ass frat boy" get thrown in, it takes on a different meaning and changes the argument.
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I'm aware of Hetfield's leanings. I'm just saying after Justice, they made a conscious effort to morph the band's sound. And that's what they did. On purpose. That's not just a natural progression. It was a conscious effort to do so.
Of course they made a conscious decision to change the band's sound, nothing wrong with that.
I think jammindude summed it up nicely when he said Metallica were always trendsetters. And starting with TBA, they became trend followers. That's exactly on-point. They aren't the first, and the aren't the last. It's almost expected to a degree. But from my perspective, when your name has METAL in it, and you started basically an entire subgenre of thrash metal, there are, to a degree, expectations. Again, as Jammindude said, if they would have expanded from Justice by adding other elements to their sound, that would be one thing. But they didn't. They dumbed down their sound. On purpose. For money.
TBA did not make them trend followers. That created a new trend with metal band that MANY bands followed. And how is TBA "dumbed down". Because some of the songs have less riffs and slower tempos? That does make it dumbed down. If you actually sit down with good headphones and listen to Nothing Else Matters, you'll hear a band stretching themselves in new ways, vocally, instrumentally, etc... There is a ton of tact and nuance, that's not dumb, that's really hard to do.
And again, many bands do it. Most do. But with Metallica, for the reasons above, at least for me, was the worst offender. They took their thrash flag and torched it. Just always sits wrong for me.
That's a really extreme way to look at a band that changed up their sound dude.
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Personally, I think anyone who prefers the 90's output more than the 80's output are deplorable.
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Can someone please explain to me how The Black Album made Metallica a trend follower? Was there any other album released in 92 or shortly before or after that sounded like the Black Album? If anything The Black Album created the trend of bringing heavy metal to the main stream which makes them innovators. As much flack that Load and Re-Load gets I still don't know any other albums that sounds like them. Same with St. Anger. I think the less thrashy Metallica got made them even bigger innovators.
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Why can't people just make the music they feel like making in that certain part of time? Why are bands have to be confined to the music, fans feel like they need to make?
I recall an article from someone in Cypress Hill where he praised Led Zeppelin's Houses of the Holy. For this reason below.
"That record really blew my mind. Led Zeppelin was not just a rock band; they were country, they were funk, they were rock, they were blues.
"When I first got turned on to Zeppelin, I couldn't believe that every record they put out was good from beginning to end. Those guys could do no wrong every time they put out an album. They were incredible.
"That album pretty much stays on rotation in my car. They challenged their fans to move on with them, and the fans accepted that. I believe that is a true mark of greatest. Zeppelin are my number one rock band of all time."
That bolded text there is something that I wish more bands can do and I think the industry would be better for it if bands continuing to challenge their fans to move on with the direction of their recent music, especially if it is good music in the end anyway (you know, be there along for the ride. I can't stop using that pun, it's too dang relevant). That right there is why I will always defend The Astonishing.
Just because The Black Album became the biggest friken rock album in our modern times, it pulled new fans that got into Metallica. Are those fans' opinions less valid than those that were fans pre-Black Album? I wouldn't think so.
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Personally, I think anyone who prefers the 90's output more than the 80's output are deplorable.
:lol I might be deplorable....
Can someone please explain to me how The Black Album made Metallica a trend follower? Was there any other album released in 92 or shortly before or after that sounded like the Black Album? If anything The Black Album created the trend of bringing heavy metal to the main stream which makes them innovators. As much flack that Load and Re-Load gets I still don't know any other albums that sounds like them. Same with St. Anger. I think the less thrashy Metallica got made them even bigger innovators.
BINGO
Why can't people just make the music they feel like making in that certain part of time? Why are bands have to be confined to the music, fans feel like they need to make?
It's funny too, because if Metallica just kept making the first 4 records over and over (cough, Megadeth, cough) it would have be disingenuous. I'd prefer it if they made the music they wanted, not what a portion of their fan base wanted.
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Of course they made a conscious decision to change the band's sound, nothing wrong with that.
Never said there was!
TBA did not make them trend followers. That created a new trend with metal band that MANY bands followed. And how is TBA "dumbed down". Because some of the songs have less riffs and slower tempos? That does make it dumbed down. If you actually sit down with good headphones and listen to Nothing Else Matters, you'll hear a band stretching themselves in new ways, vocally, instrumentally, etc... There is a ton of tact and nuance, that's not dumb, that's really hard to do.
You are very mistaken. A ton of bands did the same thing at the same time, and didn't follow Metallica. Almost EVERYONE went for a more polished sound.
Queensryche released Empire a YEAR before Metallica followed the very same trend they did -- polishing up their sound, and making it less complex. That had a lot of fans in an uproar too. For me personally, and knowing their world pretty well, it was a very natural progression for DeGarmo. So it didn't bother me as much as MEtallica.
But no, Metallica did not set the trend, other bands, including QR, did it before them.
Again, however, a point that is missing from many people replying -- its just a personal thing FOR ME that a THRASH band, particularly the one band that started it all, basically, went and RADICALLY changed its sound. And the timing of it was...suspect...for it to be all about "art."
I happen to like TBA. I just don't particularly think it was an entirely authentic "for the art" change, and I think Metallica, as big as they were, and again, as them being the fathers of thrash metal, really were held (for me) to a higher standard. And they caved. It doesn't mean the music that followed is bad. It isn't.
That's a really extreme way to look at a band that changed up their sound dude.
Not really. Not to me. Not when you consider Metallica basically invented thrash metal. But again, this is all just how I personally feel. I don't really hold it against them. I've bought every Metallica album. But I'll still maintain they were the ultimately let down after Justice.
It's ok though, its music. We all hear it differently. And those take my comments personally, sorry. Nothing to do with you however, its just how I hear it.
Stads - all good. I don't want to go around in circles.
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Of course they made a conscious decision to change the band's sound, nothing wrong with that.
Never said there was!
Cool
TBA did not make them trend followers. That created a new trend with metal band that MANY bands followed. And how is TBA "dumbed down". Because some of the songs have less riffs and slower tempos? That does make it dumbed down. If you actually sit down with good headphones and listen to Nothing Else Matters, you'll hear a band stretching themselves in new ways, vocally, instrumentally, etc... There is a ton of tact and nuance, that's not dumb, that's really hard to do.
You are very mistaken. A ton of bands did the same thing at the same time, and didn't follow Metallica. Almost EVERYONE went for a more polished sound.
Queensryche released Empire a YEAR before Metallica followed the very same trend they did -- polishing up their sound, and making it less complex. That had a lot of fans in an uproar too. For me personally, and knowing their world pretty well, it was a very natural progression for DeGarmo. So it didn't bother me as much as MEtallica.
But no, Metallica did not set the trend, other bands, including QR, did it before them.
Again, however, a point that is missing from many people replying -- its just a personal thing FOR ME that a THRASH band, particularly the one band that started it all, basically, went and RADICALLY changed its sound. And the timing of it was...suspect...for it to be all about "art."
I happen to like TBA. I just don't particularly think it was an entirely authentic "for the art" change, and I think Metallica, as big as they were, and again, as them being the fathers of thrash metal, really were held (for me) to a higher standard. And they caved. It doesn't mean the music that followed is bad. It isn't.
So, QR made a polished album and that means the most influence metal album in the world copied off them? Honestly, that's beside the point for me. My bigger issue is with you assuming their intent. The band has gone on record in many ways discussing the sound change, none of it was for "sales", so why wouldn't you believe them? Just cause the record was a hit?
That's a really extreme way to look at a band that changed up their sound dude.
Not really. Not to me. Not when you consider Metallica basically invented thrash metal. But again, this is all just how I personally feel. I don't really hold it against them. I've bought every Metallica album. But I'll still maintain they were the ultimately let down after Justice.
It's ok though, its music. We all hear it differently. And those take my comments personally, sorry. Nothing to do with you however, its just how I hear it.
Stads - all good. I don't want to go around in circles.
I understand where you are coming from as a thrash fan, I respect you opinion, I just can't get on board with some of the assumptions you're making about intent. That's all. All good!
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The band has gone on record in many ways discussing the sound change, none of it was for "sales", so why wouldn't you believe them? Just cause the record was a hit?
Unfortunately, almost no bands in the world would say that "we changed our sound to get better sales." A little honestly would go a long way if bands would just admit that they changed their sound for the money.
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The band has gone on record in many ways discussing the sound change, none of it was for "sales", so why wouldn't you believe them? Just cause the record was a hit?
Unfortunately, almost no bands in the world would say that "we changed our sound to get better sales." A little honestly would go a long way if bands would just admit that they changed their sound for the money.
So the assumption is "The band did XYZ, I know it to be a fact, the band denies it, and therefore they are lying because my assumption, by default, is correct"?
Seems fishy.
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Stadler....your Beatles reference misses the mark because they were never trend followers. They remained trend SETTERS. Which was my problem with Metallica and the black album. They ceased being trend setters, and started a course of being trend followers.
I disagree on both counts. The Beatles very much followed Dylan, on record (Help!, Rubber Soul, Revolver) and off (weed, later LSD). Paul McCartney has been crystal clear that Sgt. Pepper was a response to the Beach Boys' "Pet Sounds" (itself a reaction to the Beatles "Rubber Soul"). McCartney and Lennon both, in their own ways, were VERY in tune to the way the wind blew around them, they were just way better at incorporation than a lot of the bands around them.
I think The Black Album was less "following" than it was "leading to the point forging a brand new road". I think there was a real powerful statement by that band with the Black Album, and I think it changed the game for bands that shared the roots of the grunge bands but maybe not the irony and aloofness. I think there was real power in how successfully Hetfield (in particular) channeled the "introspection" and made it legit. Anthrax's first post-TBA album was radically different for them (not least because of John Bush) and Megadeth's first post-TBA album was stripped back, and like with Hetfield, showed Mustaine relinquishing his iron grip on the band. Those I know from experience, but I have reason to understand Overkill's first post-TBA album showed a similar step back from "pure thrash", and only Slayer seemed immune to the influence.
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Honestly I don't care one bit if TBA was considered a sellout or that Metallica changed their sound because for me still to this day sonically it's one of the beefiest metal sounding albums ever. When you blast it in PA, the slow song just sounds sooo huge and in your face and Of Wolf And Man, come on now!
My favourite part on TBA is 3:11 in Holier Than Thou, when the bass kicks in and later 1, 2 and 3 layers of guitars joins the riff!
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The band has gone on record in many ways discussing the sound change, none of it was for "sales", so why wouldn't you believe them? Just cause the record was a hit?
Unfortunately, almost no bands in the world would say that "we changed our sound to get better sales." A little honestly would go a long way if bands would just admit that they changed their sound for the money.
So the assumption is "The band did XYZ, I know it to be a fact, the band denies it, and therefore they are lying because my assumption, by default, is correct"?
Seems fishy.
What Adami said.
The band has seriously addressed this many times from many angles. TBA is the direction they wanted to go as artists.
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I can't speak for Samsara, but I know for me, the band strayed too far from their core sound so that they were no longer the band that I had an interest in, and I speak as someone who became a fan in late '86. Personally, I was able to deal with TBA, because while it was more streamlined than their last few albums, it still sounded like Metallica overall, if a bit more straight forward. But when Load dropped, and especially that first single (Until It Sleeps), I was aghast and lost all interest in following them further.
See, this is all that needs to be said. Nothing in there alludes to other listeners, or their mental state, or the mental state of the band; just a simple "it wasn't for me". BOOM.
But here's the thing, there is evidence that Metallica wasn't necessarily being "authentic" in their progression to Load and ReLoad. I know there are quotes of James stating that Load and ReLoad were all Lars and Kirk's doing, and that he simply went along with it, and that especially now (altho I think to a degree even back then), he regrets what happened. A lot of that had to do with their image (cutting their hair and wearing make up, etc. as flipping the finger to their old-school hard core fans) but you can be sure that the mentality bled into their actual musical output too. Doesn't sound very "authentic" to me.
Fiar point. I hadn't gotten that far ahead in the chronology, I was still back on TBA. You're right; James later expressed real discomfort with the Load/Re-Load eras, though even he didn't go so far as to say it was anyone outside the band. To me, at best, it's "Fogerty's Revenge" more than anything else. (Google it).
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The band has gone on record in many ways discussing the sound change, none of it was for "sales", so why wouldn't you believe them? Just cause the record was a hit?
Unfortunately, almost no bands in the world would say that "we changed our sound to get better sales." A little honestly would go a long way if bands would just admit that they changed their sound for the money.
So the assumption is "The band did XYZ, I know it to be a fact, the band denies it, and therefore they are lying because my assumption, by default, is correct"?
Seems fishy.
To me too. This is a large part of what I'm pushing back on.
Same story with Genesis and their progression. By all accounts in the band, they didn't put a single note to tape that Tony Banks wasn't at least on board with at the time it was recorded. And yet... because they didn't make ten albums singing about giant Hogweeds and Lamia they were "sellouts".
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Honestly I don't care one bit if TBA was considered a sellout or that Metallica changed their sound because for me still to this day sonically it's one of the beefiest metal sounding albums ever. When you blast it in PA, the slow song just sounds sooo huge and in your face and Of Wolf And Man, come on now!
My favourite part on TBA is 3:11 in Holier Than Thou, when the bass kicks in and later 1, 2 and 3 layers of guitars joins the riff!
No doubt about how it sounds. TBA sounds MASSIVE. IMO, its the best sounding Metallica record, period. A lot of money, time and thought was put into the sound of that album, and it shows.
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Everyone here has already hinted at it without really getting it.
They dumbed it down. And in the process, hired the producer of the multi-platinum Dr Feelgood. Those two things alone really show that they were shooting for a bigger market (more money) as opposed to putting the artistic vision first.
Before it even got released, I heard interviews hinting and shorter simpler songs, less speed, and the guy who produced Motley Crue. I had a bad feeling right away.
But in retrospect...the album grew on me. It’s decent.
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They dumbed it down. And in the process, hired the producer of the multi-platinum Dr Feelgood. Those two things alone really show that they were shooting for a bigger market (more money) as opposed to putting the artistic vision first.
No.
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:lol :rollin :rollin :rollin
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I like Load more than Black Album. :millahhhh
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They dumbed it down. And in the process, hired the producer of the multi-platinum Dr Feelgood. Those two things alone really show that they were shooting for a bigger market (more money) as opposed to putting the artistic vision first.
No.
Adami is so on point in this thread :tup
Like I mentioned before, the only way it really makes sense to say they dumbed their music down is by only valuing elements of their music they moved away from and devaluing elements of their music they added from TBA on.
In terms of getting Bob Rock (one of the best decisions the band ever made for so many reasons) once again, they have discussed many times the thought process that went into it. Him being the Dr. Feelgood guy did have something to do with it, but not because that record sold well, more because they liked specific elements of the mix, namely the kick sound. Remember, Metallica's initial offer to Bob was only to mix the record, not produce. Bob's counter to them was that he wanted to produce them.
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Everyone here has already hinted at it without really getting it.
They dumbed it down. And in the process, hired the producer of the multi-platinum Dr Feelgood. Those two things alone really show that they were shooting for a bigger market (more money) as opposed to putting the artistic vision first.
Before it even got released, I heard interviews hinting and shorter simpler songs, less speed, and the guy who produced Motley Crue. I had a bad feeling right away.
But in retrospect...the album grew on me. It’s decent.
Let me ask this question. Why does slowing things down and keep it simple have to equal "dumbed it down"? Some bands can find making that sort of music to be as creatively rewarding as playing the fastest and most complex stuff, depending on how much they care about it and clearly, Metallica cared about the craft that went into making the Black Album.
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Let me ask this question. Why does slowing things down and keep it simple have to equal "dumbed it down"? Some bands can find it as creatively rewarding as playing the fastest and most complex stuff, depending on how much they care about it and clearly, Metallica cared about the craft that went into making the Black Album.
Why are you taking things on this so personally?
Saying that they "dumbed it down" is not insulting you. And the meaning behind that simply means they took a lot of the technicality out of the playing and emphasized melody more. And yes, they clearly cared about that. But generally speaking, every time I have ever heard someone comment about a record using "they dumbed it down," to explain it, that's exactly what they meant.
I get it, you liked the Black album and the 90s stuff. That's totally cool. But why can't you just accept that Metallica very purposefully took their fast, technical sound, and slowed it up and made it more streamlined (aka "dumbed it down") so that they could appeal to a broader audience (and thereby cross over and bring in more album sales)?
Why is accepting that so difficult? Because that IS what they did. And it worked, beautifully. There's no shame in loving that material at all.
But as someone said above, call a spade a spade.
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Samsura Kind of touched on it, but it’s more than just simplifying. You can simplify music, and still maintain a more raw edge. My earlier example of Sepultura fits. They simplified and got more aggressive not less.
Basically, when you go for the lowest common denominator and homogenize everything so that it has the broadest appeal, you are looking for the biggest audience above a personal statement.
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Basically, when you go for the lowest common denominator and homogenize everything so that it has the broadest appeal, you are looking for the biggest audience above a personal statement.
No.
Unless you meant Death Magnetic. In which case, yes.
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But why can't you just accept that Metallica very purposefully took their fast, technical sound, and slowed it up and made it more streamlined (aka "dumbed it down") so that they could appeal to a broader audience (and thereby cross over and bring in more album sales)?
How about...
Metallica very purposefully took their fast, technical music, and matured their sound to better appeal to their artistic sensibilities which happened to appeal to a broader audience.
That good?
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But why can't you just accept that Metallica very purposefully took their fast, technical sound, and slowed it up and made it more streamlined (aka "dumbed it down") so that they could appeal to a broader audience (and thereby cross over and bring in more album sales)?
How about...
Metallica very purposefully took their fast, technical music, and matured their sound to better appeal to their artistic sensibilities which happened to appeal to a broader audience.
That good?
If that makes you feel better, sure. I'll stick with my original. :lol
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Let me ask this question. Why does slowing things down and keep it simple have to equal "dumbed it down"? Some bands can find it as creatively rewarding as playing the fastest and most complex stuff, depending on how much they care about it and clearly, Metallica cared about the craft that went into making the Black Album.
Why are you taking things on this so personally?
Saying that they "dumbed it down" is not insulting you. And the meaning behind that simply means they took a lot of the technicality out of the playing and emphasized melody more. And yes, they clearly cared about that. But generally speaking, every time I have ever heard someone comment about a record using "they dumbed it down," to explain it, that's exactly what they meant.
I get it, you liked the Black album and the 90s stuff. That's totally cool. But why can't you just accept that Metallica very purposefully took their fast, technical sound, and slowed it up and made it more streamlined (aka "dumbed it down") so that they could appeal to a broader audience (and thereby cross over and bring in more album sales)?
Why is accepting that so difficult? Because that IS what they did. And it worked, beautifully. There's no shame in loving that material at all.
But as someone said above, call a spade a spade.
I'm willing to accept that they streamlined their sound to appeal to a larger audience, but I personally don't think the phrase "dumbing it down" feels correct and it feels like it presents a tone of asserting superiority (like "ha, ha, I know better than you know about this thing and I was there when they were blah, blah, blah, and you were only here after they become famous") if it's phrased like that even though I know that is certainly not the tone of people here are presenting.
I don't know why I take things like this so personally. I guess I'm tired of reading certain comments like "they sold out" or whatever or rock communities treating bands like Creed, Nickelback, and Linkin Park as butt monkeys of the rock/metal world when it's just unwarranted since they just have a sound that's different than what certain people that typically listens to rock/metal wants.
How about...
Metallica very purposefully took their fast, technical music, and matured their sound to better appeal to their artistic sensibilities which happened to appeal to a broader audience.
That good?
Yes, I would like it personally if people perceive it like that instead of "they sold out!"
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But why can't you just accept that Metallica very purposefully took their fast, technical sound, and slowed it up and made it more streamlined (aka "dumbed it down") so that they could appeal to a broader audience (and thereby cross over and bring in more album sales)?
How about...
Metallica very purposefully took their fast, technical music, and matured their sound to better appeal to their artistic sensibilities which happened to appeal to a broader audience.
That good?
If that makes you feel better, sure. I'll stick with my original. :lol
Ditto.
But I was trying to show that you (and others here) are trying to assert your experience of the situation as the objective truth that we should all just accept. I posited an alternative perspective, which was largely dismissed. See the issue?
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Ditto.
But I was trying to show that you (and others here) are trying to assert your experience of the situation as the objective truth that we should all just accept. I posited an alternative perspective, which was largely dismissed. See the issue?
Oh, I see what you were doing. I was responding mostly for entertainment value. :lol
At the end of the day, we're going to hear things as we hear it. People can believe what they want.
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I will say this.... you can call it a personal statement, as long as that personal artistic statement is “We want to sell a bajillion records and make as much money as we possibly can.”
But *if* that is any “artists” personal mission statement, it taints their output in my eyes. Even in the case of Kiss. The idea that THE GOAL was to become humongous, and filthy rich lowers my opinion of them as people, and the art they produce. Even if I do really like some of it.
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I will say this.... you can call it a personal statement, as long as that personal artistic statement is “We want to sell a bajillion records and make as much money as we possibly can.”
But *if* that is any “artists” personal mission statement, it taints their output in my eyes. Even in the case of Kiss. The idea that THE GOAL was to become humongous, and filthy rich lowers my opinion of them as people, and the art they produce. Even if I do really like some of it.
I agree!
And I see no evidence that Metallica had such a statement.
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I will say this.... you can call it a personal statement, as long as that personal artistic statement is “We want to sell a bajillion records and make as much money as we possibly can.”
But *if* that is any “artists” personal mission statement, it taints their output in my eyes. Even in the case of Kiss. The idea that THE GOAL was to become humongous, and filthy rich lowers my opinion of them as people, and the art they produce. Even if I do really like some of it.
I agree!
And I see no evidence that Metallica had such a statement.
As the old saying goes, “actions speak louder than words”
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Besides, Jason’s famous quote during that time. Kind of hinted that that’s exactly what the goal was.
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I personally think that calling TBA a "sellout" is revisionist history;
No it isn't. I bought TBA on its release day and that's what I thought immediately.
The Metallica debate, for me, can be summed up like this.
After AJFA, they realized they couldn't go anywhere different with thrash metal. They took it as progressive and technical that they could do with Justice (which is the reason its my favorite from them), and they also realized that by sticking to that high-speed, technical blitz, they'd do well, but not explode. Someone at the time, or perhaps it was within the band members, realized that if they got a warmer, fatter, less technical sound, they could be worldwide icons across both metal and hard rock. They saw the success other bands were having going that route (they absolutely saw the success GnR had with Appetite, and I have to imagine they saw Queensryche sell 3.5 million with Empire, since they had the same management company at the time, among others).
So, they did exactly what everyone accuses them of doing -- they "sold out," or more accurately, they simply "slowed and dumbed down" the music, and polished a bit. Took off some of the edge. In all honesty, I totally understand WHY they did it. And, like they knew it would, it worked in a huge way, and they became global icons and rich as one could possibly be. And they've sort of tried to navigate that ever since, trying to morph their sound into what's accepted at the time, to build on what became a multi-million dollar empire.
As a fan, I'm not mad at them, but realize the band I loved stopped with ...And Justice for All. Yeah, there are songs I love from all Metallica records, including St. Anger (even though it sounds like dog shit). But the vibe of the band is what I sort of refer to as "corporate hard rock/metal." It's all about the BRAND, as opposed to the BAND. Sure, they talk a good game, but when it comes down to it, I don't believe for a second anything they have done post-Justice has been purely artistic. It all has a business-bent to it.
Luckily for them, a lot of people love what they've done, artistically. I mean hell, most of post-Black album stuff doesn't even sound like the same band that did Puppets, but there are still some really good songs on it. Bleeding Me comes to mind immediately. And you give them credit for writing some really good songs after Justice (the Black album is OK, its just too polished for my tastes, for a thrash band).
And that last statement brings me to my final point, which I have said quite a few times over the years. Like it or not, when you name your band METALLICA, and you spend the first four albums of your career literally defining the sub-genre of thrash metal, seeking to play faster and heavier than everyone, you're pigeon-holed. Thrash bands, for me personally, have very little leeway in deviating from their sound. You expect a thrash band, well, to thrash. Heavy. Aggressive. All of that. Even Metallica's ballads were heavy through the Justice record.
That's why when I look at bands like Metallica, Megadeth, Testament, Death Angel, etc., when they get softer and less aggressive, I like them less. That doesn't mean some of it doesn't work. For example, I think Megadeth really sounded pretty damn good with Youthansia, but everything felt almost at the same tempo, which was a tick slower, and a bit of a bummer. Countdown to me, was acceptable, because the songs were still fast and heavy, just a little more polished. But after Youthanasia...Megadeth spiraled for a bit.
Simply put, for me, thrash bands need to always thrash. They don't have (again, this is all personal opinion on how I view music) the leeway of progressive metal bands like Dream Theater, Fates Warning, and the original lineup of Queensryche; or the other sub-genres to deviate greatly. I don't know why I feel that way. But thrash bands, particularly Metallica, who defined the genre, to me, need to stay heavy and aggressive. And when they don't, it raises eyebrows, big time.
And if you go back to 1991, looking at it in retrospect, coming off of Justice, no band in the world was as heavy as Metallica. Sure, you had Slayer, you had Anthrax, and other thrash bands and the death metal movement, and lots of stuff happening. But Metallica in 1988-1989 was the most bad ass band on the planet in terms of speed and brutality. I don't blame fans (who Metallica groomed up to the Black album as more family, and that they were "a part" of things) for revolting, and feeling betrayed -- they were. And some fans were ok with it, and accepted it. But a lot of the hardcore ones really had a hard time with it.
It was a normal reaction, but much, much bigger, because of Metallica's incredible rise to fame.
To a lesser extent, Queensryche did it with Empire. But then again, Queensryche was never playing brutality fast thrash metal, so while there was some push back, it was generally accepted. Metallica...not so much.
I still call myself a Metallica fan. But I always qualify it by saying "I'm a fan of the band's work through ...And Justice for All. After that, it is hit and miss for me." Because that's simply the truth. To deny the quality of some of their work after they stopped being a thrash band would be foolhardy, IMO. But the reaction of people to such an abrupt change is understandable.
Brian, I'm with you on all that you said.
And I like you noting Empire. At that time, both albums seemed to shift to a more mainstream sound.
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Honestly I don't care one bit if TBA was considered a sellout or that Metallica changed their sound because for me still to this day sonically it's one of the beefiest metal sounding albums ever. When you blast it in PA, the slow song just sounds sooo huge and in your face and Of Wolf And Man, come on now!
My favourite part on TBA is 3:11 in Holier Than Thou, when the bass kicks in and later 1, 2 and 3 layers of guitars joins the riff!
No doubt about how it sounds. TBA sounds MASSIVE. IMO, its the best sounding Metallica record, period. A lot of money, time and thought was put into the sound of that album, and it shows.
And I think it has really help that album age. I was honestly in shock when it came out, but I really like it a lot now.
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Agreed with all of the above.
I was in a thrash band when the Black album came out. The band all gathered to listen to it on the day it was released.....there was a collective WTF.
Somebody even said, "What the **** is this? I can DANCE to this!!!" :rollin :rollin
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I can only speak for myself but I was 9 in 1991 and didn't discover Metallica until a few years later and TBA was the first album I heard from them. Not until later did I explore their older disc. Anyway had I been older and into Metallica in the 80s i'm sure I would've been salty about the change of direction. It's much easier to have an opinion when you haven't experienced something first hand if you know what I mean. The change was a BIG deal back in the day, not so much today.
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I will say this.... you can call it a personal statement, as long as that personal artistic statement is “We want to sell a bajillion records and make as much money as we possibly can.”
But *if* that is any “artists” personal mission statement, it taints their output in my eyes. Even in the case of Kiss. The idea that THE GOAL was to become humongous, and filthy rich lowers my opinion of them as people, and the art they produce. Even if I do really like some of it.
I agree!
And I see no evidence that Metallica had such a statement.
As the old saying goes, “actions speak louder than words”
What if Metallica had made TBA exactly as it exists now, but it wasn't a huge commercial success? What if it sold just as many units as Justice? Metallica's "actions" would be the same in that situation. Would you still consider them "selling out"?
Their actions also reflect a band that realized they had pushed a certain sound as far as they wanted to take it, and wanted to do something different to satisfy their artistic vision. Why can't that be the case?
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Why can't that be the case?
Because it doesn't fit the narrative some have built up.
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Why can't that be the case?
Because it doesn't fit the narrative some have built up.
:lol For real. I'm baffled by this topic, I always have been.
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Honestly I don't care one bit if TBA was considered a sellout or that Metallica changed their sound because for me still to this day sonically it's one of the beefiest metal sounding albums ever. When you blast it in PA, the slow song just sounds sooo huge and in your face and Of Wolf And Man, come on now!
My favourite part on TBA is 3:11 in Holier Than Thou, when the bass kicks in and later 1, 2 and 3 layers of guitars joins the riff!
No doubt about how it sounds. TBA sounds MASSIVE. IMO, its the best sounding Metallica record, period. A lot of money, time and thought was put into the sound of that album, and it shows.
And I think it has really help that album age. I was honestly in shock when it came out, but I really like it a lot now.
It has such a huge sound. I love records that have that. Empire, TBA, Saraya's When the Blackbird Sings, all have these big sounds, which just envelope you. Fates Warning had it on Parallels too, just not quite as warm as the three I just mentioned.
And I like TBA more now, I just don't listen to it as much. It's just such a start deviation, that when I'm listening to Metallica (KEA-Justice), I just have no desire to go further to TBA. I have to just put TBA on by itself, without having listened to Metallica for awhile (and it will be a bit before I do that, since I've been going through the Puppets and Justice box sets)
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Let me ask this question. Why does slowing things down and keep it simple have to equal "dumbed it down"? Some bands can find it as creatively rewarding as playing the fastest and most complex stuff, depending on how much they care about it and clearly, Metallica cared about the craft that went into making the Black Album.
Why are you taking things on this so personally?
Saying that they "dumbed it down" is not insulting you. And the meaning behind that simply means they took a lot of the technicality out of the playing and emphasized melody more. And yes, they clearly cared about that. But generally speaking, every time I have ever heard someone comment about a record using "they dumbed it down," to explain it, that's exactly what they meant.
I get it, you liked the Black album and the 90s stuff. That's totally cool. But why can't you just accept that Metallica very purposefully took their fast, technical sound, and slowed it up and made it more streamlined (aka "dumbed it down") so that they could appeal to a broader audience (and thereby cross over and bring in more album sales)?
Why is accepting that so difficult? Because that IS what they did. And it worked, beautifully. There's no shame in loving that material at all.
But as someone said above, call a spade a spade.
Let me ask you this: why use "dumb it down" - which CLEARLY has negative connotations - over, say, "streamlined", or"distilled" or "refined"? It's like me saying to someone "Hey, bro. That's dumb. But don't take it personally; I mean that as a compliment, in the nicest of possible ways."
And for me, I reject that the second half of your sentence necessarily follows from the first: why does "streamlining" necessarily mean "targeting a broader audience"? Why can't it be to "be a better songwriter"? To "better accomplish achieving that sound I hear in my head"? Why can't it be a personal challenge to "hone my/our/their craft"?
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Samsura Kind of touched on it, but it’s more than just simplifying. You can simplify music, and still maintain a more raw edge. My earlier example of Sepultura fits. They simplified and got more aggressive not less.
Basically, when you go for the lowest common denominator and homogenize everything so that it has the broadest appeal, you are looking for the biggest audience above a personal statement.
I disagree with that. COMPLETELY. Bruce Springsteen just did 145,632 straight sold out shows on Broadway that absolutely refutes - nay, CRUSHES - that very notion.
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Ditto.
But I was trying to show that you (and others here) are trying to assert your experience of the situation as the objective truth that we should all just accept. I posited an alternative perspective, which was largely dismissed. See the issue?
Oh, I see what you were doing. I was responding mostly for entertainment value. :lol
At the end of the day, we're going to hear things as we hear it. People can believe what they want.
To a point (assuming that you are not forgoing basic things like "truth", "credibility", "rationality", and "logic"). I see none of those things in the logic that says "Huh, not one song over 7:00; therefore they put sales and dollars over personal statement and integrity".
(And that's another point: we're basically calling a heavy metal album, a quarter of the songs of which are over 6:00 in length, a "SELL OUT". All things ARE relative. This isn't exactly Def Leppard here.)
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You're still going? :lol
God, I now see why I annoyed people so much over the years. My apologies to every single person who ever posted at my message board from 2004-2016. :lol
Stads - I don't agree with you. Have a nice weekend.
*goes and puts on AJFA to remember when Metallica was incredible*
:rollin
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I personally think that calling TBA a "sellout" is revisionist history;
No it isn't. I bought TBA on its release day and that's what I thought immediately.
Fair point; I was referring to the idea that it sold a brazillian copies. I'm going to stir the pot a little here and say that that's a decent size part of this. If it only sold 8 million ("...Justice" numbers) or 6 million (RtL and MoP numbers) I'm not sure we'd be having this conversation.
(By the way, you learn something new every day: EVERY ONE of Metallica's canonical, original material studio records - i.e. not Lulu, or compilations - have gone PLATINUM. That's amazing.)
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Stadler, record sales have nothing to do with it. My ears have no idea how many people bought the album. They only know that I bought it. My views are based on what my ears tell me, not the Billboard charts.
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It was closer to Def Leppard than it was to KEA. :rollin
But seriously Stads....one (or even a minority handful) of examples doesn’t disqualify the point. That’s the very definition of a straw man argument. The public does get it right on a very rare occasion (Moving Pictures, Dark Side of the Moon, Sgt Pepper, Laturalus). It’s rare, but once in awhile the public does massively adhere to something that is not a homogenized, overly simplistic, opiate of the masses.
And simple is fine sometimes. ELO were masters of it. So I’m not meaning that it’s always a bad thing. It just is what it is.
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Stadler, record sales have nothing to do with it. My ears have no idea how many people bought the album. They only know that I bought it. My views are based on what my ears tell me, not the Billboard charts.
Fair enough, and you were clear that you were talking about the time you first heard the record. But many of the other comments seem predicated on the fact that the album DID sell 16 million units plus or minus.
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It was closer to Def Leppard than it was to KEA. :rollin
But seriously Stads....one (or even a minority handful) of examples doesn’t disqualify the point. That’s the very definition of a straw man argument. The public does get it right on a very rare occasion (Moving Pictures, Dark Side of the Moon, Sgt Pepper, Laturalus). It’s rare, but once in awhile the public does massively adhere to something that is not a homogenized, overly simplistic, opiate of the masses.
And simple is fine sometimes. ELO were masters of it. So I’m not meaning that it’s always a bad thing. It just is what it is.
Well, I think the public gets it right WAYYYY more than "on rare occasion". I disagree with you on premise that the public generally adheres to "homogenized overly simplistic opiate of the masses". That's the popular wisdom to self-justify why we choose to listen to Neal Morse over Taylor Swift. I patently reject that line. I'm not in any way superior, or less "opiated" because I like "High 'n' Dry" over "Hysteria"; the fact is, "Hysteria" is objectively a better album than "High 'n' Dry". (Literally pick any objective standard and Hysteria is a better album than High 'n' Dry: sales, charts, number of songs played live, attendance at the subject tour, number of covers, etc. etc.).
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I think what we are really arguing over is essentially the balance of heart and mind. For the most part, the public does not want their art to make them think. They want to feel. Whether they want to feel good, sad, glad, or bad, there is a song for it. But they usually just want to feel something they can relate to without having to think about it very much. Thinking is too hard for the general public.
Most of us that are into progressive rock tend to gravitate toward it because it has a tendency to be a little bit more on the cerebral side. But it still makes us feel something. When a band can find that nice balance between making you think and making you feel (As Dark Side did) then you have happened upon something that is very difficult to do. Because, as I said, the public doesn’t like to think. So getting them to think and feel at the same time is extremely difficult. Getting them to feel ....not so much. To be fair, it does take a measure of talent to elicit an emotion. It takes a little bit more to make somebody truly think. And it takes a lot more to do both at the same time.
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And to be clear, making someone think does not have to be strictly in the lyrical sense. It could just be throwing something more complex into the music the melody or the rhythm. Anything that is not easy to digest is going to force the listener to think. In general, people don’t like to do that.
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The perfect example is the direct comparison between Enter Sandman and Master of Puppets.
MoP has some very observant and incitful lyrics about drug addiction. “Chop your breakfast on a mirror” is a particularly vivid imagery that makes you think. Also the rhythm oscillates (I believe) between 8/8 and 7/8. So it’s something you have to stop and think about because it’s not a constant.
Enter Sandman...while having a great riff (which elicits an emotion) is a common time song (easy beat) about being afraid of the dark (emotionally relatable). And the only rhythm change is the pre-chorus.
And this is just touch and go....I mean, my point should be clear if we’re not splitting hairs.
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MoP has some very observant and incitful lyrics about drug addiction. “Chop your breakfast on a mirror” is a particularly vivid imagery that makes you think. Also the rhythm oscillates (I believe) between 8/8 and 7/8. So it’s something you have to stop and think about because it’s not a constant.
The main riff has three bars of 4/4 and one bar of 21/32 (you read that right :lol), as this great video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRBmavn6Wk0) demonstrates. The bridge after the second chorus has some time changes as well.
I probably don't want to add anything into the debate that has been going on for the last few pages. But generally I do agree with jammindude and Samsara.
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MoP has some very observant and incitful lyrics about drug addiction. “Chop your breakfast on a mirror” is a particularly vivid imagery that makes you think. Also the rhythm oscillates (I believe) between 8/8 and 7/8. So it’s something you have to stop and think about because it’s not a constant.
The main riff has three bars of 4/4 and one bar of 21/32 (you read that right :lol), as this great video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRBmavn6Wk0) demonstrates. The bridge after the second chorus has some time changes as well.
I probably don't want to add anything into the debate that has been going on for the last few pages. But generally I do agree with jammindude and Samsara.
That is freakin AWESOME!!! I was just going by the fact that you can count it off as a bar of 8 and the a bar of 7, but this makes it even more interesting. :rollin
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Actually, after watching the video, the rant that he goes on for the second half of the video is touching on exactly the kinds of ideas I’m trying to convey.
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I think what we are really arguing over is essentially the balance of heart and mind. For the most part, the public does not want their art to make them think. They want to feel. Whether they want to feel good, sad, glad, or bad, there is a song for it. But they usually just want to feel something they can relate to without having to think about it very much. Thinking is too hard for the general public.
Most of us that are into progressive rock tend to gravitate toward it because it has a tendency to be a little bit more on the cerebral side. But it still makes us feel something. When a band can find that nice balance between making you think and making you feel (As Dark Side did) then you have happened upon something that is very difficult to do. Because, as I said, the public doesn’t like to think. So getting them to think and feel at the same time is extremely difficult. Getting them to feel ....not so much. To be fair, it does take a measure of talent to elicit an emotion. It takes a little bit more to make somebody truly think. And it takes a lot more to do both at the same time.
Look, Jammin, you and I are buds and always will be. I love the degree to which you think about this stuff, and that's sincere. I think of anyone here, I am one of those that appreciates that, and I'm also one of those that could reasonably be accused of over-thinking things on occasion. Having said that, I reject this notion that somehow one (or both) are better than the other. In fact, in my opinion, I think it's EASIER to make people think than it is to make someone feel. I think "Yesterday" - two minutes, three seconds of acoustic guitar and vocal, with a couple vocal and orchestral overdubs - is a FAR greater achievement than say, "Dance Of Eternity". I have something like 30,000 songs in my iPod library, and I can count the number of songs that make me cry on ONE HAND. I can give you 100 off the top of my head that make me think.
Where music - art - differs from, say, a toaster, is that it can do BOTH. I've long said this to my daughter (a huge Taylor Swift fan): like what you like, and apologize to NO ONE about it. If it makes you close your eyes and pump your fist, or if it chokes you up, or if it makes you go get the lyric book to see what she's really saying (or who she's saying it about), then you're on to something. Everything else is... pffffft.
I give you this quote from Het (regarding Re-Load, but still): "Fast thrash just wasn't exciting to us anymore, really," Hetfield said. "If I wrote it, then we'd use it, but none of us were writing that stuff. On 'Fuel' there was some pretty quick down-picking — just kind of moving around with root notes — but that's about it. It's was a little more exciting for us to figure out more fucked up chords — things that grind — dissonant bits. In a few of the songs there's helter-skelter tension built in there. That kind of stuff excited us more than the speed stuff."
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The perfect example is the direct comparison between Enter Sandman and Master of Puppets.
MoP has some very observant and incitful lyrics about drug addiction. “Chop your breakfast on a mirror” is a particularly vivid imagery that makes you think. Also the rhythm oscillates (I believe) between 8/8 and 7/8. So it’s something you have to stop and think about because it’s not a constant.
Enter Sandman...while having a great riff (which elicits an emotion) is a common time song (easy beat) about being afraid of the dark (emotionally relatable). And the only rhythm change is the pre-chorus.
And this is just touch and go....I mean, my point should be clear if we’re not splitting hairs.
It's all what you value. I've already written about the impact that Enter Sandman had on that audience - and the musicians there - at the Jools Holland show. Four guys fired up their instruments and made x-hundred people forget what they were doing and play/sing/clap along. Paul McCartney - when I saw him in Philly - had 20,000 people dead silent and attentive while he played "Yesterday". I had tears running down my face as he finished and I glanced to my right to make sure no one saw me... and the woman next to me also had tears pouring down her face. I think that's far more of an accomplishment than making someone wonder "uh, is that 4/4 or something else?" (As an aside, that's what makes guys like Tony Banks and Mike Portnoy so talented; they do BOTH: they are playing 17/32 time signatures and you are lost in the music).
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And I feel like you've just completely underlined my point. What you're telling your daughter? Completely emotional. "Follow your heart" is exactly what most people WANT to hear. "Like what you like" is a completely visceral approach. And the reason why it is easier to elicit an emotional response than a cerebral one is because (for the most part) you have an audience that WANTS to feel. They (for the most part) do not WANT to think. You already have an audience that is actively SEEKING to feel something before you even start. It still takes some talent to find a resonation with your audience, but it's when you can elicit them to do something they DON'T want to do that takes much more effort.
You may really like putting some thought into things...but we're talking about the general public here. The general public DOES NOT want their art to make them think. They don't want it to be hard....and thinking is hard....for the public.
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And I feel like you've just completely underlined my point. What you're telling your daughter? Completely emotional. "Follow your heart" is exactly what most people WANT to hear. "Like what you like" is a completely visceral approach. And the reason why it is easier to elicit an emotional response than a cerebral one is because (for the most part) you have an audience that WANTS to feel. They (for the most part) do not WANT to think. You already have an audience that is actively SEEKING to feel something before you even start. It still takes some talent to find a resonation with your audience, but it's when you can elicit them to do something they DON'T want to do that takes much more effort.
Not quite; I'm saying like what you want for the reasons you want. If it IS just heart, so be it. If it's something else (she's a lot like me in that regard; loves nuggets!) then so be it. "Like what you like" is not "visceral". Do you really listen to something with no opinion, then consciously walk through whether you like it or not on a graded scale? And to your last sentemce, doesn't that make Taylor Swift LITERALLY the graetest artist on the planet? The last thing I "want" to like is the gossipy ruminations of a stork-like 20-something girl, and yet... "Wildest Dreams" is in my top 10 greatest songs ever written, and I consider 1989 to be this generations "Thriller".
You may really like putting some thought into things...but we're talking about the general public here. The general public DOES NOT want their art to make them think. They don't want it to be hard....and thinking is hard....for the public.
Okay, but so what? Why is that bad? They've got bills to pay, sick kids, hard jobs, mortgages in foreclosure... maybe they have enough thinking and want something to take them away. Don't you find any wonder in the thought that some guy, born into an almost restrictively religious household, that admittedly has deep issues in communicating with the people around him, can somehow write down some words that touch people thousands of miles - and in this case, almost 30 years in time later - away? I brought my kid to Kiss and she was blown away, and it wasn't lost on me that half the set was songs that were written while Gene and Paul were driving cabs/teaching school and jamming away in a loft in NYC that's smaller than my bedroom. I find that ability to connect almost supernatural in scope.
And I'm not saying I'm right, and you have to take my approach over yours. I'm just saying that the two approaches are equally valid, and this presumption that somehow thinking is better than visceral is false. It IS possible that the general population is right about this.
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MoP has some very observant and incitful lyrics about drug addiction. “Chop your breakfast on a mirror” is a particularly vivid imagery that makes you think. Also the rhythm oscillates (I believe) between 8/8 and 7/8. So it’s something you have to stop and think about because it’s not a constant.
The main riff has three bars of 4/4 and one bar of 21/32 (you read that right :lol), as this great video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRBmavn6Wk0) demonstrates. The bridge after the second chorus has some time changes as well.
I probably don't want to add anything into the debate that has been going on for the last few pages. But generally I do agree with jammindude and Samsara.
That is freakin AWESOME!!! I was just going by the fact that you can count it off as a bar of 8 and the a bar of 7, but this makes it even more interesting. :rollin
Not sure where you're getting a 7.
I never really gave the time signatures any thought until I started playing in a band in 1987. In May 1987, Guitar for the Practicing Musician magazine published a transcription of MOP (I have that issue, but I'm not posting from home, so I'm going off memory here). That is the same transcription that is referenced at 0:26 of the video as "the official transcription" (you can see the GFTPM logo in the upper-left corner of the book). Anyone who's familiar with GFTPM will remember that, in addition to the transcription of each song, they included a paragraph or two or three of performance notes. I don't know if those notes were included in the book pictured in the video or whether they're available online anywhere, but I very clearly recall them explaining that the 5/8 time signature was used simply for the sake of having a time signature and something that at least remotely approached a legible transcription. The notes cautioned that the time signature of that measure wasn't exact and that it varied slightly over the 30 times that measure appears in the song. I also believe all of James, Lars and Kirk have said in interviews that the measure wasn't in any particular time signature and that it was just a "feel thing." I think the video makes this same point pretty clearly.
For the sake of comparison, the tablature on Songsterr.com uses 11/16 for that measure.
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Stadler... I don’t recall ever saying it was “bad” all the time. Heck, I adore AC/DC. You know that.
If I’ve said anything, it’s been hinting around the idea that it’s disappointing for many (including me) when a band seems to have captured (or is in the process of capturing) the balance of heart and mind, and then eschews the more thought provoking side in order to appeal to a broader audience by going strictly for the emotions only.
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JD, my bro from another ho, you're HEAVILY implying a negative connontation in your statements.
Let me ask you this.
You go to a record store (those still exist?) and ask the guy if he has any recomendations for you. He says the following...
"Dude, I got the perfect thing for you, it's really dumbed down and it won't make you think at all, you'll love it"
You'd walk away thinking that this is a totally neutral statement? Or would you feel insulted a little?
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The terms "sellout" and "sold out" are dumb anyway. I know the idea of the starving artist is appealing to some, but if any of us were told, "hey, you can keep doing what you love, but tweak it a little to where you'll make a lot more money," we'd all do it in a heartbeat, without fail.
I get that some fans hate it when "their band" gets a bigger audience and the newcomers act like it was their band all along, too, but who cares? Good music is good music. And the Black Album is damn good music.
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I was a few months away from being born when RTL came out, but I wonder how many hardcore Metallica fans (however many that was at the time) thought they sold out when it came out?
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I was a few months away from being born when RTL came out, but I wonder how many hardcore Metallica fans (however many that was at the time) thought they sold out when it came out?
There was some of that, yes.
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I was a few months away from being born when RTL came out, but I wonder how many hardcore Metallica fans (however many that was at the time) thought they sold out when it came out?
There was some of that, yes.
I've heard of that, yes. Some people were pissed because they DARED to have some acoustic guitar in Fight Fire with Fire. :lol
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I guess my point was that RTL was viewed (by some) as a sell out. Now it's part of the pantheon of what Metallica left behind when they REALLY sold out.
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We have to remember that this was the 80's, when music fans were really segregated, and those fans didn't want overlap from other genres into "their" music. Metal fans didn't want any keyboards in their metal, for example. That kind of thinking seeped into the 90's when the Black Album was released.
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We have to remember that this was the 80's, when music fans were really segregated, and those fans didn't want overlap from other genres into "their" music. Metal fans didn't want any keyboards in their metal, for example. That kind of thinking seeped into the 90's when the Black Album was released.
There’s a lot to this.
I am a big proponent of the theory that the rise of thrash was a direct cause and effect of Ozzy going from Diary to Ultimate Sin...Motley Crue going from Shout at the Devil to Theater of Pain...Judas Priest going from Defenders of the Faith to Turbo....Iron Maiden going from Powerslave to Somewhere in Time. These trends ARE related. If these early 80s icons of metal don’t do synth albums, thrash would have become a footnote in metal history.
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The terms "sellout" and "sold out" are dumb anyway. I know the idea of the starving artist is appealing to some, but if any of us were told, "hey, you can keep doing what you love, but tweak it a little to where you'll make a lot more money," we'd all do it in a heartbeat, without fail.
I get that some fans hate it when "their band" gets a bigger audience and the newcomers act like it was their band all along, too, but who cares? Good music is good music. And the Black Album is damn good music.
KevShmev = Stadler on this point. That's essentially what I am saying.
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Stadler... I don’t recall ever saying it was “bad” all the time. Heck, I adore AC/DC. You know that.
If I’ve said anything, it’s been hinting around the idea that it’s disappointing for many (including me) when a band seems to have captured (or is in the process of capturing) the balance of heart and mind, and then eschews the more thought provoking side in order to appeal to a broader audience by going strictly for the emotions only.
And I'm essentially saying it's not bad "ANY" of the time. There's no "perfect" balance, except for each individual (and that makes it, by definition, subjective). I think one way to look at it is as a continuum. You've got full on head on one side, and full on heart on the other, and as long as you are SOMEWHERE on the continuum, you're good. I just feel TBA is a slide on the continuum, but that intentions are/were still pure.
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Metallica themselves made it very clear where their hearts really were/are with the set lists. Yes some Black Album songs but they know what sounds best live, and it ain’t Carpe Diem Baby :rollin. Anyway, I chose to look at their hillbilly rock period as a little detour that didn’t pan out. They’re back to playing hard and heavy, which they know is their strength (especially with someone as talented as Het).
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Metallica: Holier Than Thou (El Paso, TX - February 28, 2019) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL1EDJ0h_Ow)
:tup
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Metallica: Holier Than Thou (El Paso, TX - February 28, 2019) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL1EDJ0h_Ow)
:tup
Nice, we got this at the State College show too, love this song. They also recently live debuted Here Comes Revenge :metal :metal
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S&M²: THE 20TH ANNIVERSARY CONCERT
(https://i.ibb.co/WVpGLjt/S-M2-1280x720.jpg)
Check this out, you know how much we love firsts and we are always extremely proud to wave the flag for our hometown of San Francisco, so this first is particularly exciting as we announce that we will be performing at the grand opening celebration of the Chase Center with S&M² on Friday, September 6th. That’s right, not only will this be the inaugural event at the new arena in the city, but we will be playing once again with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra as we join together to commemorate this historic addition to the Bay Area and mark the 20th anniversary of the S&M concerts and album release.
We’re honored that legendary conductor Michael Tilson Thomas will kick off his final season as San Francisco Symphony Musical Director with a special appearance conducting a portion of the show. James and Lars joined Michael, along with representatives from the Golden State Warriors and San Francisco mayor London Breed, to make the announcement at the Chase Center today.
Watch the Annoucement
Presales for Fan Club members begin tomorrow, March 19th with the Legacy Member sale beginning at 9 AM Pacific Time and the Fifth Member sale beginning at 10 AM Pacific Time. Please visit the Club News section for additional details including where to find your presale code.
Tickets will go on sale the general public on Friday, March 22nd at 10 AM Pacific Time at chasecenter.com.
Please join us for this one-night-only show as we celebrate the addition of what is sure to become a cultural landmark in the Bay Area. We’re thrilled to be invited to be a part of it and humbled to be sharing the stage with the legendary MTT and the city’s finest musicians in the San Francisco Symphony.
Source: https://www.metallica.com/news/2019-03-18-s-and-m-2.html?fbclid=IwAR0rHOr0weL-jlFjMhl7LKmryY-mfuLB2s2UgQGY_rxweEowsAuiF4VeTGc
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That's pretty awesome and something I'd consider traveling to except I'll already be traveling to Atlanta for progpower. It says it's a celebration of the original, but does that mean they will be playing songs only from the original or do we think we'll get any new songs or the symphony to do newer Metallica songs.
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Wait, they're playing with a symphony again?
If so, I'd buy that DVD up in a heart beat. I just hope it's a (not totally) different song selection.
I know it's a Metallica show, but in cases like this, we don't need Battery. We DO need songs like Unforgiven (either of them) or Fade to Black.
I hope they don't try to avoid the obvious choices. They're obvious for a good reason.
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I know it's a Metallica show, but in cases like this, we don't need Battery. We DO need songs like Unforgiven (either of them) or Fade to Black.
Battery is actually my favorite performance on the original S&M, mainly because of how the intro is arranged. I do agree that an orchestra would definitely do justice to the Unforgivens and Fade to Black as well.
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I know it's a Metallica show, but in cases like this, we don't need Battery. We DO need songs like Unforgiven (either of them) or Fade to Black.
Battery is actually my favorite performance on the original S&M, mainly because of how the intro is arranged. I do agree that an orchestra would definitely do justice to the Unforgivens and Fade to Black as well.
The intro is cool, totally. But that's about it. There's a few other songs that definitely didn't benefit from the symphony, and outside of the intro, Battery was one of them. You can just feel the "Uhhhh I dunno what to do here" that Kamen felt for much of that song.
Also, if they're doing new songs, I hope whoever they got is as good as Kamen. What that man did to that show was genius. Just compare it to the work done with DT. Night and day.
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Yea, I agree, the orchestration on S&M was sooooo much better than any of the bands who tried to follow with similar concerts.
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Wow, this is VERY cool! It's kind of silly that a band this big has NOT had more of a connection with SF Bay Area sports up until now. Sports fans have been talking about something like this for ages. Cool that they are going to combine it with the anniversary of such a landmark performance that helped inspire and launch an entire subgenre of metal. I don't think many actual Warriors players are Metallica fans. :lol But still.
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There's a Chase cardmember presale tomorrow. I'll check it out. If it's not silly expensive, I might think about traveling for this.
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A song for the orchestra should be rearranged. Having the violins doing unisons with the guitar riffs is pointless.
My template for orchestrations will always be the german band Rage.
Listen to this thrashy song, the title track from their Black in Mind album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1O_7K2NeWQ
And now listen to the orchestral version, this video presents the first two parts of a medley so skip to the 0:58 mark because the piano intro is the chorus of another song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUo2_6m5KGg
THAT, to me, is doing an orchestral version.
Should Iron Maiden do an orchestral show, they should concentrate on stuff like Empire of the Clouds, For the Greater Good of God and the likes and forget about playing The Trooper and 23:58 as they are but with violins following the guitars.
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I agree with your point, but I don't see what it has to do with this. The cool thing about S&M is that they DIDN'T do what you said bands shouldn't do. And if they did, it was specifically to emphasize it.
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Wow, this is VERY cool! It's kind of silly that a band this big has NOT had more of a connection with SF Bay Area sports up until now.
I took this picture outside of AT&T Ballpark last summer..
(https://i.imgur.com/OaFjwWi.jpg)
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I agree with your point, but I don't see what it has to do with this. The cool thing about S&M is that they DIDN'T do what you said bands shouldn't do. And if they did, it was specifically to emphasize it.
I remember quite some passages where the orchestra, as you said, was "mh don't know what to do here". But I admit I haven't listen to the album in quite some time so I might have an incorrect perception about it.
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Wow, this is VERY cool! It's kind of silly that a band this big has NOT had more of a connection with SF Bay Area sports up until now.
I took this picture outside of AT&T Ballpark last summer..
(https://i.imgur.com/OaFjwWi.jpg)
:tup
I guess it isn't too hard to believe that Giants fans have probably been the MOST vocal about what I said above.
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Haven't Metallica been doing Metallica night for a SF Giants home game for a few years now?
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Not that I'm aware of. But I could just be unaware.
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Just looked, this year is the 7th annual Metallica Night
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-announces-seventh-annual-metallica-night-with-san-francisco-giants/ (http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-announces-seventh-annual-metallica-night-with-san-francisco-giants/)
A statement on the band's web site reads: "Mark your calendars for the seventh annual 'Metallica Night'! On April 26, 2019 — just before we take off for our annual European summer vacation — we'll celebrate one of our favorite hometown traditions, 'Metallica Night', at Oracle Park with the San Francisco Giants. Members of the band will be on hand to start things off with the National Anthem and first pitch, sticking around all night to cheer on the team against the New York Yankees. As is customary, we'll take part in some of the between-inning fun and games, as well as an exclusive pre-game VIP event."
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Oh, cool! :tup
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Wow, this is VERY cool! It's kind of silly that a band this big has NOT had more of a connection with SF Bay Area sports up until now.
I took this picture outside of AT&T Ballpark last summer..
(https://i.imgur.com/OaFjwWi.jpg)
That picture makes me want to throw away everything I own relating to Metallica.
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Wow, this is VERY cool! It's kind of silly that a band this big has NOT had more of a connection with SF Bay Area sports up until now.
I took this picture outside of AT&T Ballpark last summer..
(https://i.imgur.com/OaFjwWi.jpg)
That picture makes me want to throw away everything I own relating to Metallica.
Oh, it gets worst for us. San Jose Sharks come out to the rink with Seek and Destroy as their opening theme for their home games and I think there was a Metallica night for a Sharks game in 2015 and guess who they played that night? The Kings. Guess who won that night? The bloody Sharks.
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Oh, cool! :tup
It is pretty cool to embrace their home town team, and for the team to embrace them as well.
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Wow, I'm blown away that they are doing S&M2. Over the years, S&M has become one of my favorite live concert DVD/CDs, I pray they are filming this and will release it (traveling to CA is probably not happening for me).
It seems like, according to the announcement, they will revisit some songs they did the first time with Kamen and do some songs they didn't do before.
Off the top of my head, I'd love it if they did a bunch of songs that have come out since the first S&M was released, like:
The Day That Never Comes
Atlas Rise
Dream No More
Halo On Fire
Now That We're Dead
The Unforgiven III
Even a track like The Unnamed Feeling off SA would be cool. And yeah, obviously I hope they incorporate some obvious tunes they left off the first time like The Unforgiven and Fade to Black.
I'll say it again, I really hope they film this and release it, if anyone has been following the Worldwired Tour, the band is playing really well right now and James in particular is singing very well, probably the best he's sounded in a long time.
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Been thinking about the setlist and what it could be for this upcoming revisit. Hopefully it's either radically different, or exactly the same haha. I'm worried that any new songs will not be orchestrated as well without Michael Kamen. But we shall see. I hope it's radically different than last time, and what they're doing now on tour. Basically, hit every album with some rarities and only a couple of repeats/mega-hits. What I'd like to see (something like this):
The Ecstacy of Gold
Orion
The Four Horsemen
Eye of the Beholder
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Halo on Fire
King Nothing
No Leaf Clover
The Day That Never Comes
Dream No More
Nothing Else Matters
--------------------------------
The Unforgiven
The Unforgiven II
The Unforgiven III
I Disappear
Am I Savage?
The Unnamed Feeling
Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
One
Seek & Destroy
--------------------------------
Fight Fire With Fire
KEA: 2, RTL: 2, MOP: 2, AJFA: 2, TBA: 2, L: 1, RL: 1, S&M: 1, MI2: 1, SA: 1, DM: 2, HTSD: 3
Only four repeats: For Whom the Bell Tolls, One, No Leaf Clover, Nothing Else Matters
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I'd ditch Seek and Destroy for Fade to Black, but overall, good setlist.
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All the Unforgivens in a row might be cool
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All the Unforgivens in a row might be cool
Yeah, that would be amazing actually.
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My brother his girlfriend are apparently going to this show. I jokingly messaged her asking if they were planning on bringing me. her response: "Get your ass up here to visit and we will!"
Too bad I can't make plans that far in advanced right now :lol
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Do it.
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If they really plan on buying my ticket, and depending on when they actually commit, I just might.
I haven't been up there to visit in about 5-6 years.
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^ You should definitely do it. Browsing the Metallica forums, it seems like tickets are really hard to get and many are automatically popping up on StubHub for waaaaaaay over face value.
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^ You should definitely do it. Browsing the Metallica forums, it seems like tickets are really hard to get and many are automatically popping up on StubHub for waaaaaaay over face value.
Yea makes sense, this is going to be a hot ticket
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Yeah, I tried for like 45 minutes to get one during the pre-sale yesterday but no luck. Would absolutely fly out to SF if I could get one. Oh well.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=42&v=JImsHFVztGI
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Oh, wow. I didn't know about this.
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Even a track like The Unnamed Feeling off SA would be cool. And yeah, obviously I hope they incorporate some obvious tunes they left off the first time like The Unforgiven and Fade to Black.
The Unnamed Feeling would definitely be cool, and I think All Within My Hands (in style of acoustic version) would work well too in this context. Unforgiven and Fade to Black are indeed quite glaring omissions from the original and hopefully they'll make the cut this time. I'd expect them to play 5-6 songs from Hardwired and bunch of classics, but anything from Load and ReLoad sans Fuel is a plus in my books. Hopefully there's still room for some surprises, they can't NOT be playing The Call of Ktulu or No Leaf Clover.
I doubt they'll do any covers, but Astronomy with an orchestra would be sooo sweet.
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Even a track like The Unnamed Feeling off SA would be cool. And yeah, obviously I hope they incorporate some obvious tunes they left off the first time like The Unforgiven and Fade to Black.
The Unnamed Feeling would definitely be cool, and I think All Within My Hands (in style of acoustic version) would work well too in this context. Unforgiven and Fade to Black are indeed quite glaring omissions from the original and hopefully they'll make the cut this time. I'd expect them to play 5-6 songs from Hardwired and bunch of classics, but anything from Load and ReLoad sans Fuel is a plus in my books. Hopefully there's still room for some surprises, they can't NOT be playing The Call of Ktulu or No Leaf Clover.
I doubt they'll do any covers, but Astronomy with an orchestra would be sooo sweet.
The Unnamed Feeling or All Within My Hands would both be great choices off of SA to play with orchestration. I'm totally with you on the HW songs, I hope they play at least 5. Atlas Rise, Moth Into Flame, Halo On Fire, Dream No More, Now That We're Dead, etc... would all be great.
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I just hope they treat this as a special event and not just a normal Metallica show but with an orchestra, at least as far as setlists go.
Metallica tours all the time. If you want to see Seek and Destroy and Enter Sandman and the other 20 songs they play every tour every year, go to those. I hope this is an opportunity to go very different.
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I just hope they treat this as a special event and not just a normal Metallica show but with an orchestra, at least as far as setlists go.
Metallica tours all the time. If you want to see Seek and Destroy and Enter Sandman and the other 20 songs they play every tour every year, go to those. I hope this is an opportunity to go very different.
I agree, but realistically, they are probably going to do a lot of the same songs they did from the first S&M. This is what they played at the first S&M, I bolded the songs I'm guessing they will do again:
The Ecstasy of Gold
The Call of Ktulu
Master of Puppets
Of Wolf and Man
The Thing That Should Not Be
Fuel
The Memory Remains
No Leaf Clover
Hero of the Day
Devil's Dance
Bleeding Me
Nothing Else Matters
Until It Sleeps
For Whom the Bell Tolls
- Human
Wherever I May Roam
The Outlaw Torn
Sad but True
One
Enter Sandman
Battery
That leaves eight open slots. Obviously, I'm just guessing, but I think we will probably get 4 HW songs, a DM song, maybe a SA song, and a couple old ones that weren't on the first S&M, like Creeping Death or The Unforgiven, or Fade to Black.
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I'm really skeptical about them playing - Human ever again, I do actually like that one (reminds me of Alice in Chains), but it seems largely forgotten. And who knows, maybe there will be a completely new song.
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I'm really skeptical about them playing - Human ever again, I do actually like that one (reminds me of Alice in Chains), but it seems largely forgotten. And who knows, maybe there will be a completely new song.
Yea, I kind of see it being forgotten here too. No Leaf Clover is a must IMO, but Human, yea that's forgettable and I'd rather see a new or different old song get the S&M treatment.
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I'm assuming they will play both -Human and No Leaf Clover, just because they were written specifically to be played with an orchestra.
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Metallica appease fans with second "S&M2" show for fan club:
https://loudwire.com/metallica-second-sm2-show-fan-club-members/
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That's pretty cool and reactive to what people were bitching about.
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Super cool.
I'm a member of the fan club, maybe I'll have a shot at a ticket...
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Yup, will definitely be trying for a ticket to this.
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Nothing Else Matters by Metallica - Danish Guitar Performance (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlGiOiRQNhI)
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Well at least one Dane can play that song well :loser:
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(https://media1.tenor.com/images/d215042afd6853342cdeaa17b59154ab/tenor.gif?itemid=5645546)
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Funny that this thread is being bumped - I just saw Metallica last night :metal
Monday sunny, Tuesday sunny, today sunny, yesterday rainy... screw my life. But a coworker that was meant to come with me got sick and she couldn't come - I guess that puts things into perspective.
It was a different way to experience a concert in the end - all wrapped up in antirain coats, no photos (but people had phones out anyway, at least for half a gig it didn't rain), a very dramatic atmosphere. I mean, I never ever want to stand in the rain again during a big concert, but it's something to tell about.
Also, it was the most MASSIVE concert I've seen. I've seen Iron Maiden and I've seen them in the same venue but the crowd was insanely big and we were all so pressed, and the stage set is the biggest I've ever seen. Bigger than the Big 4 tour, it was just gigantic.
This is the setlist - AFTER THE LINK I'LL DISCUSS SOME OF THE SONGS SO IF YOU DON'T WANT SPOILER SKIP THE REST OF THE POST.
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2019/ippodromo-del-galoppo-di-san-siro-milan-italy-2390f4af.html
All in all a good setlist, they change some songs here and there from show to show but the bulk is the same. I read online that they played Frantic, I'm glad I got St. Anger instead, the best song of that absymal album. And hey, look at how they "apologized" for playing a St. Anger song - the four lethal attack of One + Master + Bells + Creeping Death was mindblowingly awesome :metal
Creeping Death was apocalpytic - all red images on the maxi screens, and it was raining... wonderful experience!
I welcome setlist changes and I'm so, so glad that I got to hear Halo on Fire, but Lords of Summer as first encore? really? a b-side I bet not all people knew? it's the start of the encore, just take advantage of it and start with a song with an intro, such as Battery, Blackened, Fight Fire with Fire or, dunno, literally anything else. I mean, Ride the Lightning and Disposable Heroes get rotated between shows, but Lords of Summer is the fixed first encore. The hell.
Aside from that, great shows, I've seen many complaints online already but I didn't notice any big mistakes, just some double bass missing during One. James was good, some songs he was struggling a bit but all in all he gave a very good performance.
Also Ghost as openers were the icing on the cake, great energetic show from them, it makes up for not seeing them as headliners on this tour!
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Awesome! I love that they rotate songs in and out, and continually dig fairly deep into the vault for different songs to play.
I've been watching the Seattle '89 and San Diego '92 DVD's a lot, after not having seen them for years. That will always be 'my' Metallica, having gotten into them in 1991 or 1992. They were absolutely ferocious back then, and I'm glad that they're still an amazing live band now.
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Awesome! I love that they rotate songs in and out, and continually dig fairly deep into the vault for different songs to play.
Indeed! I would have never imagined that The God that Failed could have been in the set, but it's a nice grooving song and it came out really well. Also I got lucky in hearing The Memory Remains (didn't hear it at my previous 2011 concert) and especially Halo on Fire, they're not staples of the set.
Some songs also had different intros, such as The Unforgiven, and they tackled a fast and speedy reprise of the melody of The Memory Remains after the end rather than just finishing with the dadada part played by Kirk alone. And for the "let's play a song from the nation we're in" part of the show we got a kickass song (named El Diablo) from a great rock band, Litfiba, which was an excellent surprise. Last time around they played a song from Vasco Rossi who, while being very famous in Italy, is despised by basically everyone who isn't a fan and there was an uproar online :lol
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http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallicas-kirk-hammett-slips-on-his-wah-wah-pedal-falls-on-stage-in-milan-video/
No way...after being blamed worldwide for decades for over using wah wah! :lol even the pedal itself is sick of him.
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I didn't even notice it, to give an idea of what a mess it was :lol (47.500 people present, italian record for Metallica! :omg: )
But hey, it was raining a lot, it was only statistically possible that someone would slip over something.
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I didn't even notice it, to give an idea of what a mess it was :lol (47.500 people present, italian record for Metallica! :omg: )
But hey, it was raining a lot, it was only statistically possible that someone would slip over something.
hahahaha but Kirk??? and specifically on his wah wah pedal? this is brilliant !
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Uh well, when you put it that way, I do see the irony :lol
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I like how they are changing up the setlists, looks like this Euro leg is getting a good rotation of some deeper cuts. Having said that, I'm not a fan of the song choices for that show last night. I saw the video of the fall this morning, Kirk himself tweeted it which is pretty cool. Also it looks like thats pretty much the same set up for the NA tour a couple years ago which was also massive. Ghost as an opener is a huge + too. Glad you had fun in the rain.
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Thanks! well, given the realistic choices, I'm glad I got St. Anger instead of Frantic, and The Memory Remains. Out of The Thing that Should Not Be, The God that Failed and Disposable Heroes I would have loved this last one, but at least they played Ride the Lightning which my cousin loved and she never saw Metallica until yesterday, so I'm glad for her that she got her favorite song at the very first attempt.
As I said my only complaint is about Lords of Summer... a b-side being 1) a staple 2) a mainstay of every gig is baffling. Other than that, being this my second Metallica gig ever in 8 years, I'm just happy to have gotten all in all a solid show :D
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I'm not a fan of LoS being an encore staple either. I liked when they would rotate 80s album intros for the first encore song. I got Blackened last fall and Fight Fire With Fire a couple years ago, I thought those were good choices. LoS is just not even that good of a song IMO. It's not bad, but it's more mid set type of song if they are going to play it IMO.
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Yeah exactly! if at all, play it in the middle in place of St. Anger... everyone knows there's gonna be an encore, you're not fooling anyone, might as well take the chance and use a song that as an intro, to have the feel of the show restarting - I was bracing myself for exactly what you said, Blackened or Fight Fire with Fire, but no. Weird choice indeed.
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Awesome! I love that they rotate songs in and out, and continually dig fairly deep into the vault for different songs to play.
I've been watching the Seattle '89 and San Diego '92 DVD's a lot, after not having seen them for years. That will always be 'my' Metallica, having gotten into them in 1991 or 1992. They were absolutely ferocious back then, and I'm glad that they're still an amazing live band now.
I know this seems completely insane...but would you believe that I went to BOTH nights that they recorded for that Seattle show........and I've still never watched it? I never even owned Binge and Purge until a couple years ago when I inherited a VHS version from a friend who passed away. But who watches VHS any more? I'd have to find a player in a closet.
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Yeah exactly! if at all, play it in the middle in place of St. Anger... everyone knows there's gonna be an encore, you're not fooling anyone, might as well take the chance and use a song that as an intro, to have the feel of the show restarting - I was bracing myself for exactly what you said, Blackened or Fight Fire with Fire, but no. Weird choice indeed.
Nooo please no. I might be the only one here with that opinion... but I absolutely love the St. Anger album. Including the snare drum! (not kidding)
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I didn't even notice it, to give an idea of what a mess it was :lol (47.500 people present, italian record for Metallica! :omg: )
But hey, it was raining a lot, it was only statistically possible that someone would slip over something.
hahahaha but Kirk??? and specifically on his wah wah pedal? this is brilliant !
"My lifestyle determines my deathstyle" ;)
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Yeah exactly! if at all, play it in the middle in place of St. Anger... everyone knows there's gonna be an encore, you're not fooling anyone, might as well take the chance and use a song that as an intro, to have the feel of the show restarting - I was bracing myself for exactly what you said, Blackened or Fight Fire with Fire, but no. Weird choice indeed.
Nooo please no. I might be the only one here with that opinion... but I absolutely love the St. Anger album. Including the snare drum! (not kidding)
I loathe St. Anger, but I have to admit the title track is good and hearing it live it was cool. Especially WITHOUT the snare drum sound ;D
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I will always maintain that there are some killer riffs and in general just really solid raw materials on St. Anger. The songs just needed some more TLC as far as writing/editing, and obviously the production values are a shitshow.
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I didn't even notice it, to give an idea of what a mess it was :lol (47.500 people present, italian record for Metallica! :omg: )
But hey, it was raining a lot, it was only statistically possible that someone would slip over something.
hahahaha but Kirk??? and specifically on his wah wah pedal? this is brilliant !
"My lifestyle determines my deathstyle" ;)
I love that line, though.
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Frantic and St Anger are my least favorite songs on that album.
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Frantic and St Anger are my least favorite songs on that album.
The Unnamed Feeling is actually pretty good, even if it needs to be edited.
Honestly, if the album was edited quite a bit and given a re-recording, it wouldn't be bad.
and I wouldn't want the re-recording to have great sound. I think the bad raw sound added to the message of the album. I just think the writing needs a bit of a refinement.
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Honestly, if the album was edited quite a bit and given a re-recording, it wouldn't be bad.
Well, someone did exactly that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h99nhdNnfm8
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Honestly, if the album was edited quite a bit and given a re-recording, it wouldn't be bad.
Well, someone did exactly that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h99nhdNnfm8
Yes, but the rest of my post addressed (perhaps poorly) why that isn't what I meant.
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But who watches VHS any more? I'd have to find a player in a closet.
I have a VCR hooked up to my TV, and I still have a bunch of VHS tapes. In the music category, they're things that either didn't get re-released on DVD or which I never got around to replacing. The tape that I watch most frequently is this:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/3D0AAOSw5gxZdGUp/s-l300.jpg)
Never got re-released on DVD.
And, since this is a Metallica thread, I also still have this tape:
(https://d2h1pu99sxkfvn.cloudfront.net/b0/11869335/453522262_3T5tMliPxH/P6.jpg)
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Nice, I still have my Cliff Em All VHS too
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Finally picked up the rerelease of AJFA. Glad I did. It's a shame to have not owned this album. I now feel like my Metallica collection is "complete" in that I have all the albums I want to have, which is the run from RTL through the Black album. So far, I listened to the original disk and the live disk. I haven't yet visited the demos/rough mixes disk.
The original is as I remembered: Great songwriting. Bad production with no bass. There was a lot about these songs that I had forgotten. I'm glad to be able to revisit them now. I am looking forward to the demos disk so I can get a flavor for the bass lines.
The live disk doesn't do much for me. It's cool to have. But like Binge and Purge, it's just sped-up, sloppy live versions with mostly childish banter by James in between songs. Cool to hear this, but not something I needed, and not something I will revisit very often.
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I bought St. Anger for a $1.00 and free shipping, because it had the DVD as well.
I'm listening to it now, and it's not as bad as I had expected. I saw - and loved - "Some Kind Of Monster", so I get the backstory, and this isn't bad. It's a little one-note and at 75+ minutes, listening to Lars bang on an empty oil barrel is a little monotonous, but it's not bad. My biggest beef is with myself; I just don't share these emotions that much anymore, so it's a hurricane but I'm in my basement. So to speak.
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listening to Lars bang on an empty oil barrel is a little monotonous
Matt Smith of Theocracy did a hilarious parody of this way back in the day (before Theocracy was really a thing I suppose). I'll have to see if I can find that somewhere.
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listening to Lars bang on an empty oil barrel is a little monotonous
Matt Smith of Theocracy did a hilarious parody of this way back in the day (before Theocracy was really a thing I suppose). I'll have to see if I can find that somewhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_3ieuItPC0
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Sum 41 - Metallica Medley (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxeyYdQtHrI)¨
I know I know, "why on earth should I click on this link?" you're thinking but I must say it's sounds killer honestly!
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They actually did a decent job with the covers. Sounds good to me :metal
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Is it a medley if its only two songs? I've never got into Sum 41 but always respected their metal roots in pop punk music. That was cool. I wish they played the Disrupt festival by me over the summer so I could have seen them for once and get a better idea if I'd like them.
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I think the technical musical term when it is only 2 songs is "mashup." :biggrin:
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That was awful. It felt like a "medley" only for people who don't know Metallica beyond the top hit songs and nothing else.
I actually dig Sum 41 and I know they love Metallica, but that was just really lazy, sorry.
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That was awful. It felt like a "medley" only for people who don't know Metallica beyond the top hit songs and nothing else.
I actually dig Sum 41 and I know they love Metallica, but that was just really lazy, sorry.
I'm not a fan of Sum 41 and I thought they did a great job. It wasn't a well constructed medley, but the playing was on point.
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That was awful. It felt like a "medley" only for people who don't know Metallica beyond the top hit songs and nothing else.
I actually dig Sum 41 and I know they love Metallica, but that was just really lazy, sorry.
I'm not a fan of Sum 41 and I thought they did a great job. It wasn't a well constructed medley, but the playing was on point.
Sure. They technically played some Metallica riffs correctly. I guess I just don't like note for note covers. It felt like a weak recreation with punk vocals. Just didn't do it for me. Old Metallica is about aggression and energy. If there's no aggression or energy, then you just guys playing the riffs and that's it. That's not impressive to me. I can search youtube for 600 people accurately playing For Whom the Bell Tolls or Master of Puppets note for note.
I've also already seen them do it better at Metallica Icon.
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Yea it wasn't -bad-
But it was way too... emotionless?
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Is it a medley if its only two songs?
Three songs.
It was ok, but I agree that "medley" isn't the right term. Also, shouldn't be doing Bell if the bass player doesn't have a wah pedal, and Sandman gets worse every time I hear it.
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Found this randomly when looking for something else. Good stuff.
Master of Puppets in 8-bit style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66Bmumvw3NM
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I actually like that. That's cool.
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Getting hyped for S&M 2, it's coming up soon!
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TONIGHT IS THE NIGHT!!!! On this very night 30 years ago (and the night following) I attended the two Metallica shows that were filmed for the Live Binge and Purge set. I only own it on VHS (acquired 2nd hand and barely used just a few years ago) and I've NEVER watched it. Well.....tonight, that changes.
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Found this randomly when looking for something else. Good stuff.
Master of Puppets in 8-bit style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66Bmumvw3NM
Let's grab a shotgun and a medikit and shoot some cacodemons
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TONIGHT AT THE CHASE CENTER IN SAN FRANCISCO
S&M² NIGHT ONE
Featuring Metallica and the San Francisco Symphony!
Celebrate the 20th Anniversary of S&M and the grand opening of the Chase Center starting at 8:30 PM!
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TONIGHT IS THE NIGHT!!!! On this very night 30 years ago (and the night following) I attended the two Metallica shows that were filmed for the Live Binge and Purge set. I only own it on VHS (acquired 2nd hand and barely used just a few years ago) and I've NEVER watched it. Well.....tonight, that changes.
Must be the Seattle show. That is a classic. I loved it so much that I ripped the audio off of the VHS and then the DVD when I upgraded so I could listen to it whenever. Just an awesome performance.
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ONIGHT AT THE CHASE CENTER IN SAN FRANCISCO
S&M² NIGHT ONE
Featuring Metallica and the San Francisco Symphony!
Celebrate the 20th Anniversary of S&M and the grand opening of the Chase Center starting at 8:30 PM!
Is that tonight?
Hoping the set list isn’t 90% the same as last time.
Either way, looking forward to seeing it in theaters next month.
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ONIGHT AT THE CHASE CENTER IN SAN FRANCISCO
S&M² NIGHT ONE
Featuring Metallica and the San Francisco Symphony!
Celebrate the 20th Anniversary of S&M and the grand opening of the Chase Center starting at 8:30 PM!
Hoping the set list isn’t 90% the same as last time.
Yeah, bout that... (https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2019/chase-center-san-francisco-ca-539f439d.html?fbclid=IwAR2R9X3NWVCccQRNRh2Q6N0_z8YsLpm4_qE5yR2_nWhK7GYZpewqr3vcDPo)
Set I
The Ecstasy of Gold (Ennio Morricone cover) (Performed by the San Francisco Symphony)
The Call of Ktulu
For Whom the Bell Tolls
The Day That Never Comes
The Memory Remains
Confusion
Moth Into Flame
The Outlaw Torn
No Leaf Clover
Halo on Fire
Set II
Scythian Suite, Op.20 , Second Movement (Sergei Sergeyevich Prokofiev cover) (live debut)
Iron Foundry (Alexander Mosolov cover) (live debut)
The Unforgiven III
All Within My Hands
(Anesthesia) Pulling Teeth
Wherever I May Roam
One
Master of Puppets
Nothing Else Matters
Enter Sandman
I'm a bit dissappointed since I thought the entire setlist would be songs that hadn't been made on the first S&M (Orion, Fade to Black, Trapped Under Ice, Harvester of Sorrow, Fixxxer, Etc.) but I'm interested in what Anesthesia, AWMH, Unforgiven III and Halo on Fire sound like.
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Yea. Still confused about some of those song choices.
Confusion? Anesthesia? All Within My Hands?
Also, it’s 62% same set if you don’t count the cover songs.
And I agree about not doing Orion, Fade to Black etc. but trapped under ice?
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Yea. Still confused about some of those song choices.
Confusion? Anesthesia? All Within My Hands?
Also, it’s 62% same set if you don’t count the cover songs.
And I agree about not doing Orion, Fade to Black etc. but trapped under ice?
I mean, they did Battery last time, so why not?
Rumor has it that the All Within My Hands song they versioned today is actually the acoustic toned-down version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmhOIsM4jQE) of it, which I'm actually fond of.
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Rumor has it that the All Within My Hands song they versioned today is actually the acoustic toned-down version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmhOIsM4jQE) of it, which I'm actually fond of.
The next video to the one you linked is this one with a live version of The Outlaw Torn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs8pt9aK4mc). It made my day, it's one of my favorite Metallica songs (I'm one of those that love Load). Thank you.
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Watched a little bit of some of the bootlegs. Just to get an idea.
Random thoughts
1) The stage set up is cool, looking forward to how that works pro filmed.
2) James is sounding mostly good, but his higher range seems shot. Hopefully it improved for the 2nd show.
3) Still no clue how songs like Confusion will work, but we'll see.
4) Unforgiven III was....actually really cool. As was the acoustic AWMH.
5) Still sad they skipped out on some obvious songs previously mentioned
6) Wondering if they kept all the original arrangements for the same songs or if things changed. Based on what little I saw, they kept mostly the same arrangements. I hope they change the heavy verse in One since I didn't think the orchestra worked too well there.
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Do we know if they're planning the same setlist for night 2? Might get some more variety from a slightly different set.
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^^ I highly doubt it. I've checked the two setlists from the first S&M and there were no changes. With Metallica, you would think if they do a two night stay at the same venue, they would throw a few changeups, but that might be hard with an orchestra in the fold.
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I feel Metallica today rotates setlists more than 20 years ago, so I don't think it's impossible they'll play some other songs tonight.
I actually think the setlist was cool, love the fact that all of their albums were represented and it's interesting they played some classical pieces. I see the film is being shown in my local movie theater, I'll probably buy a ticket.
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^^ I highly doubt it. I've checked the two setlists from the first S&M and there were no changes. With Metallica, you would think if they do a two night stay at the same venue, they would throw a few changeups, but that might be hard with an orchestra in the fold.
I thought for the original S&M show they kept the same setlist as well?
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^^ I highly doubt it. I've checked the two setlists from the first S&M and there were no changes. With Metallica, you would think if they do a two night stay at the same venue, they would throw a few changeups, but that might be hard with an orchestra in the fold.
I thought for the original S&M show they kept the same setlist as well?
Yep. That was indeed the case.
I've checked the two setlists from the first S&M and there were no changes.
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Oh shit sorry I missed that part!
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This looked like an incredible show. Definitely trying to get tickets to see this in theaters.
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These shows should've included the live debut of Fixxxer. Really feel like they missed an opportunity to finally play what I believe is a fan favorite.
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These shows should've included the live debut of Fixxxer. Really feel like they missed an opportunity to finally play what I believe is a fan favorite.
It would be so great if they'd segue the end of The Outlaw Torn into Fixxxer.
I don't know why they wouldn't play it live, obviously they'd have to re-arrange the intro a bit or alternatively play it from tape (I think they do that with Wherever I May Roam) but that's doable. Maybe they just don't like it that much or think that fans don't want to hear more than one Load/ReLoad song per show. :-\
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I’d love to hear Fixxxer live. But Halo on Fire should be epic!
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I checked out a bootleg of Confusion from the show, since it’s not a song I dig much. Orchestra made it SO much better.
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I don't know why they wouldn't play it live, obviously they'd have to re-arrange the intro a bit or alternatively play it from tape (I think they do that with Wherever I May Roam) but that's doable. Maybe they just don't like it that much or think that fans don't want to hear more than one Load/ReLoad song per show. :-\
When they posted the April Fools setlist (https://www.instagram.com/p/BSXKA89gra7/) on Instagram, it said "Fixxxer tape" before the song, so that's probably how they would pull it off. I remember Kirk said he was rehearsing Fixxxer in preparation for the "by request" tour, but unfortunately it didn't get enough votes anywhere. Still, I have a feeling (or at least hope) they'll play it someday.
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I checked out a bootleg of Confusion from the show, since it’s not a song I dig much. Orchestra made it SO much better.
A lot of the boots I've seen are really cool. Definitely a few hiccups here and there they will have to fix in post, but overall, I'm really excited to see the pro-shot release of this.
This thing is scheduled to play in theaters across the country on Oct. 9th. That means they have less than a month for all the audio and video production, that's pretty quick.
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Looks like there are a few seats left at a theater near me, I think I'm going to snag one up.
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Apparently, James Hetfield is entering Rehab and the rest of their tour is canceled/postponed. Sucks for those in NZ and AUS.
Hopefully, James is able to pull out of this. Was just listening to Master of Puppets after such a long time last night.
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Wow that really sucks, hope he gets well soon.
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Oh wow, that's big news. Bummer.
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Damn that notice sucked coming from the other three, he’s already in. My most relatable personality from the band, glad he’s doing something and not nothing.
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Rehab for what? I thought all that stuff was behind him?
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Rehab for what? I thought all that stuff was behind him?
According to the band's official statement he's been "on and off" rather than completely clean. Apparently it's just now to the point he has to take rehab again.
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I haven't followed their behind the scenes stuff for some time. Is it mainly alcohol he struggles with or drugs too?
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Rehab for what? I thought all that stuff was behind him?
From what I understand about addiction, it is never truly behind you.
Terrible news, I hope James has the strength to kick the habit, hopefully for good.
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I haven't followed their behind the scenes stuff for some time. Is it mainly alcohol he struggles with or drugs too?
Just alcohol
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I haven't followed their behind the scenes stuff for some time. Is it mainly alcohol he struggles with or drugs too?
Just alcohol
I thought that was the case.
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This is horrible news, when I found out, it felt like a gut punch. Praying for James, his family, and his health. Addiction is a serious disease, James should take all the time he needs.
Rehab for what? I thought all that stuff was behind him?
According to the band's official statement he's been "on and off" rather than completely clean. Apparently it's just now to the point he has to take rehab again.
This is not what they said at all. They said he's struggled on and off with addiction. They didn't say he's on and off being clean. As of 2017, when James was on Rogan he talked openly about being completely clean since the St. Anger days when he went to rehab the first time.
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I don't really know how to say this without sounding more insensitive than I am (and I don't think I am at all), and I'm certainly not pointing at MikeyD here (he's just relating what he's heard) but even that clarification is a head-scratcher. I'm chalking it up to Metallica being tight-lipped and this is none of our business other than the cancellation of shows.
It's my experience that addiction is not "on" and "off" in any sense of the words. You're an addict, and you deal with that appropriately. You might have moments of sobriety and moments where you're not, but for someone that accepts that it's a problem, that's sort of the paradigm you work with. Having said that, there are many famous instances of people needing to refresh, or to deal with new challenges that life throws at you. I think the big takeaway is that he's getting the help he feels he needs, and that's the most important thing. There are too many instances of the machine chewing up and spitting out artists, and I think it goes without saying that a healthy James is the optimal outcome.
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This is the official statement:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallicas-james-hetfield-re-enters-rehab-for-addiction-australia-new-zealand-tour-postponed/
"As most of you probably know, our brother James has been struggling with addiction on and off for many years. He has now, unfortunately, had to re-enter a treatment program to work on his recovery again."
All they're saying is that James has had past struggles and he's now back in rehab. No need to pick the sentence apart. Kudos to James for taking the time he needs to get healthy again.
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Not picking anything apart. I'm just pointing out there was nothing in that statement to say that James hasn't been completely clean since he left rehab the first time. We don't know. For all we know he checked himself back into rehab for a pro-active reason before something bad happened. Or the opposite could be true and maybe he's been drinking again for years and hiding it.
We don't know. I was just clarifying that we don't know.
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Praying for a speedy recovery for James, hope he takes all the time he needs. He’s my hero and I need him in top form. I hope his family goes easy on him, I know his wife has been to hell and back helping him straighten his life out.
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Pro-shot snippet of 'The Memory Remains' from S&M2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx57w3gSXrg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx57w3gSXrg)
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Pro-shot snippet of 'The Memory Remains' from S&M2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx57w3gSXrg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx57w3gSXrg)
:metal :metal :metal
Looks and sounds killer. I'll be hitting up a theater near me next week to watch the film, for sure.
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Honestly, the only song in the S&M2 setlist that intrigues me is Anesthesia performed on the upright bass by a member of the orchestra, but I can check this out on YT. The lack of any different pre-Black Album material from S&M1 makes this an easy pass.
P.S. This is a REALLY great article about the performance of Anesthesia -- https://ultimateclassicrock.com/cliff-burton-anesthesia-symphony-scott-pingel-interview/?fbclid=IwAR2-TWx_ZhdJ6HXzYed5cVomWoOjZSkGxyM8GHW3vC4zm_UJd0dVQF-2ihI
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Pro-shot snippet of 'The Memory Remains' from S&M2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx57w3gSXrg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx57w3gSXrg)
:metal :metal :metal
Looks and sounds killer. I'll be hitting up a theater near me next week to watch the film, for sure.
James looks a bit funny with that hair but yea, awesome clip! Hope this makes it to blu-ray
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Pro-shot snippet of 'The Memory Remains' from S&M2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx57w3gSXrg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx57w3gSXrg)
Wow, that's pretty incredible.
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James is cool as shit. He could wear this and look cool:
(https://i.imgur.com/e5cwa14.jpg)
I love Lars' faces when he plays. He always looks like one of those women at the very end of a marathon that can't really run anymore and has likely shit herself, but is striving for that finish line...
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James is cool as shit. He could wear this and look cool:
(https://i.imgur.com/e5cwa14.jpg)
I love Lars' faces when he plays. He always looks like one of those women at the very end of a marathon that can't really run anymore and has likely shit herself, but is striving for that finish line...
So true. Playing drums as simply as he does makes me so bored I fall asleep. The fact that he can make it seem super intense and difficult is, itself, impressive.
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James is cool as shit. He could wear this and look cool:
(https://i.imgur.com/e5cwa14.jpg)
I love Lars' faces when he plays. He always looks like one of those women at the very end of a marathon that can't really run anymore and has likely shit herself, but is striving for that finish line...
So true. Playing drums as simply as he does makes me so bored I fall asleep. The fact that he can make it seem super intense and difficult is, itself, impressive.
I’m sometimes amazed at just how instinctively horrible his fill placement is. So many of his parts on the albums are interesting and fit the music but he butchers them so incredibly live. It’s honestly fascinating. I love Lars but it’s like his memory was erased sometime around 2002 and all knowledge of how to play the instrument just evaporated.
The memory doesn’t remain I guess?
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Even when Metallica was at their peak (RTL, MOP) I always felt that Lars was extremely talented at only one thing....doing a fill because he lost his place, and then landing back on beat perfectly, which makes the aforementioned fill sound completely intentional. Like a gymnast who makes a mistake, but sticks the landing and says “TA DA!”
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I suppose I have to go see them to know, but I didn't post what I did to rag on his playing, I did it because I find his faces to be amusing.
I've only seen live clips or TV appearances, and I sometimes wonder what the fuss is about. No, he's not Peart or Portnoy, but who is? AC/DC is a legendary band with Phil Rudd behind the kit, and they mostly blow without him, but I could play virtually any AC/DC song from 1976 to 1983. I saw Metallica - with Lars - destroy the set on the Jools Holland show; must've been a lucky night. How do they tour arenas and stadia if he blows so bad?
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I suppose I have to go see them to know, but I didn't post what I did to rag on his playing, I did it because I find his faces to be amusing.
I've only seen live clips or TV appearances, and I sometimes wonder what the fuss is about. No, he's not Peart or Portnoy, but who is? AC/DC is a legendary band with Phil Rudd behind the kit, and they mostly blow without him, but I could play virtually any AC/DC song from 1976 to 1983. I saw Metallica - with Lars - destroy the set on the Jools Holland show; must've been a lucky night. How do they tour arenas and stadia if he blows so bad?
It's because the majority of the crowds are really there to hear them play the songs that they know and love. I highly doubt most of the crowds are really invested on how Lars plays as long as he can still steer the ship in a somewhat coherent fashion in the rhythm section.
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I know about drums the same that third millennium nazis know about history, and to me Lars' playing was just fine. But I did notice less double bass on One.
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I suppose I have to go see them to know, but I didn't post what I did to rag on his playing, I did it because I find his faces to be amusing.
I've only seen live clips or TV appearances, and I sometimes wonder what the fuss is about. No, he's not Peart or Portnoy, but who is? AC/DC is a legendary band with Phil Rudd behind the kit, and they mostly blow without him, but I could play virtually any AC/DC song from 1976 to 1983. I saw Metallica - with Lars - destroy the set on the Jools Holland show; must've been a lucky night. How do they tour arenas and stadia if he blows so bad?
Two points - (1) it's really not that bad and it gets overblown online, surprise, surprise. (2) Metallica has managed to do what most metal bands don't - they have developed a fan base beyond musicians. Most metal shows I go to, the majority of the fans play an instrument themselves and therefore are much more critical of musicians. Metallica's fan base has developed and grown waaaay past the typical metalhead musician guys to a mass audience that doesn't pick up on things that Lars might miss live. Therefore, it's not a big if he does miss some things.
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Metallica has managed to do what most metal bands don't - they have developed a fan base beyond musicians. Most metal shows I go to, the majority of the fans play an instrument themselves
Interesting.
Not saying you're wrong, but the overwhelming majority of metal fans I have known over the past 35 years or so were not musicians.
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Metallica has managed to do what most metal bands don't - they have developed a fan base beyond musicians. Most metal shows I go to, the majority of the fans play an instrument themselves
Interesting.
Not saying you're wrong, but the overwhelming majority of metal fans I have known over the past 35 years or so were not musicians.
I might be totally wrong, your mileage will vary. That's my experience though, most people I know who are into metal have some sort of experience playing guitar or bass or drums or something.
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Other than prog concerts, I don't believe most concert attendees from my experience have any music skill. That includes myself.
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I'm back from watching S&M 2. Short version: well worth it.
There has been some grumbling about the setlist, but I actually thought it was mostly good. I like how all of their studio albums were present and there was a nice amount of variety. Two songs I would've changed: The Memory Remains sounded off, almost like no one was sure about the tempo plus it doesn't mesh with the orchestra that well. It was fun though how the audience kept singing long after the song was over. I would've replaced it with Carpe Diem Baby or FiXXXer. And Wherever I May Roam, it was played the first time and isn't really a mandatory live song, also it sounded kind of vanilla after the great take on Anesthesia (Pulling Teeth). Something more intense would've been a better fit there, Harvester of Sorrow perhaps? And of course, there's a couple of glaring omissions such as Fade to Black and Orion but overall I was happy with the set.
Highlight for me was The Outlaw Torn. I understand now better why they might not want to play it all that often (its intimacy and length might not translate well in a normal set) but this was a perfect occasion for it and they did it real justice. I also loved how they followed it with No Leaf Clover. The Call of Ktulu sounds amazing with the orchestra and I'm glad they kept it from the first S&M. The newer songs worked fine too, Confusion was apparently the most baffling choice, but I personally like the song and it rocked, it actually had probably the least involvement from the orchestra.
The second half started very interestingly, I think orchestral pieces were an interesting addition, even though the second one was a bit too discordant to my liking. The Unforgiven III was probably the second biggest highlight, I have never really cared about that song but the orchestral treatment was very emotive and James sounded very good (like he did all evening, I was actually surprised how much grit he still has). I'll be definitely revisiting this version. All Within My Hands was the acoustic version and I'm a bit torn about it, slower parts were stunning but the heavier bits sounded a bit silly. Maybe they should've played at least the bridge with distortion? Anyway, I'm happy it was included, even without KILL KILL KILL :biggrin:. I mentioned Anesthesia before, but it's well worth checking out. I had never heard distorted contrabass before. Rest of the set was classics and aside from Roam I think they have earned their place, even though I have had lifetime supply of Enter Sandman.
And yes, because it is Metallica show, Lars loses his timing a few times and Kirk's solos sound pretty much the same. We've all used to it already. But the band looked like they were definitely having fun, orchestral arrangements worked well and the selection of songs was cool. If you read this far, I do encourage you check at least some of it out.
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Any word about a blu-ray release? I'd totally buy it, but I had little interest in going to a theater to see this.
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Any word about a blu-ray release? I'd totally buy it, but I had little interest in going to a theater to see this.
I don't know, but I doubt they filmed the thing professionally just to show it in theaters.
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Any word about a blu-ray release? I'd totally buy it, but I had little interest in going to a theater to see this.
I don't know, but I doubt they filmed the thing professionally just to show it in theaters.
Yup, that's my thought as well. It only makes sense to release it for purchase, but was wondering if anything had been announced that I might have missed.
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Any word about a blu-ray release? I'd totally buy it, but I had little interest in going to a theater to see this.
I don't know, but I doubt they filmed the thing professionally just to show it in theaters.
Yup, that's my thought as well. It only makes sense to release it for purchase, but was wondering if anything had been announced that I might have missed.
Actually, I forgot there's this site with countdown clock currently showing 12 hours. MetallicaXX, like 20 in Roman numerals? 20 years from the first S&M? Well, we'll find out in not too distant future.
https://metallicaxx.com/
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^^ Rumors have it regarding that countdown that they are announcing that they will be in the Danny Wimmer US festivals (Epicenter, Sonic Temple, Louder Than Life, Welcome to Rockville, Aftershock, etc.) for 2020, since those festivals are also announcing something at the same time with cryptic posts on their social media.
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Oh that could be cool, maybe I'll go visit my parents in Jacksonville for Welcome to Rockville (I've toyed with that idea every year since they moved there)
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*spoilers for those who don't want to know things*
Saw S&M2 last night and I'm in the "alright, cool" stage. I LOVE S&M, so I was super excited for this. I do love most of the new set list, but really missed Battery since it was my favorite from the original. But I get and I like that they included all albums. #1 song from it is definitely The Outlaw Torn - amazing. I felt like the video editing was really choppy and distracting. It was like they had too many cameras and felt like they needed footage from all of them. The sound mixing seemed a bit off, but not sure if that was just the theater I was at. Couldn't really hear any of the backup vocals even when they showed them on the screen. The electric stand up bass was pretty bad ass.
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I'm back from watching S&M 2. Short version: well worth it.
There has been some grumbling about the setlist, but I actually thought it was mostly good. I like how all of their studio albums were present and there was a nice amount of variety. Two songs I would've changed: The Memory Remains sounded off, almost like no one was sure about the tempo plus it doesn't mesh with the orchestra that well. It was fun though how the audience kept singing long after the song was over. I would've replaced it with Carpe Diem Baby or FiXXXer. And Wherever I May Roam, it was played the first time and isn't really a mandatory live song, also it sounded kind of vanilla after the great take on Anesthesia (Pulling Teeth). Something more intense would've been a better fit there, Harvester of Sorrow perhaps? And of course, there's a couple of glaring omissions such as Fade to Black and Orion but overall I was happy with the set.
Highlight for me was The Outlaw Torn. I understand now better why they might not want to play it all that often (its intimacy and length might not translate well in a normal set) but this was a perfect occasion for it and they did it real justice. I also loved how they followed it with No Leaf Clover. The Call of Ktulu sounds amazing with the orchestra and I'm glad they kept it from the first S&M. The newer songs worked fine too, Confusion was apparently the most baffling choice, but I personally like the song and it rocked, it actually had probably the least involvement from the orchestra.
The second half started very interestingly, I think orchestral pieces were an interesting addition, even though the second one was a bit too discordant to my liking. The Unforgiven III was probably the second biggest highlight, I have never really cared about that song but the orchestral treatment was very emotive and James sounded very good (like he did all evening, I was actually surprised how much grit he still has). I'll be definitely revisiting this version. All Within My Hands was the acoustic version and I'm a bit torn about it, slower parts were stunning but the heavier bits sounded a bit silly. Maybe they should've played at least the bridge with distortion? Anyway, I'm happy it was included, even without KILL KILL KILL :biggrin:. I mentioned Anesthesia before, but it's well worth checking out. I had never heard distorted contrabass before. Rest of the set was classics and aside from Roam I think they have earned their place, even though I have had lifetime supply of Enter Sandman.
And yes, because it is Metallica show, Lars loses his timing a few times and Kirk's solos sound pretty much the same. We've all used to it already. But the band looked like they were definitely having fun, orchestral arrangements worked well and the selection of songs was cool. If you read this far, I do encourage you check at least some of it out.
The Outlaw Torn and The Unforgiven III were my favorite moments as well. The instrumentation on the studio version of Outlaw is so sparse that it gives the orchestra a lot of space, and while TU3 has never been a favorite of mine either, the orchestra-only arrangement was great and Hetfield gave everything he had vocally - you could tell that the song is really personal to him. The other highlights for me were Ktulu, No Leaf Clover, Halo on Fire and Nothing Else Matters. Anesthesia was also really cool, and while the inclusion of Confusion left me... well, confused when I first saw the setlist, it worked. Moth into Flame was the only song that made me feel like the orchestra didn't add much to it - would've rather heard Battery if they wanted to have one fast tune in the set. The mix was also a bit unbalanced at times, and for example you could barely hear Trujillo on FWTBT.
BTW I went to see the film with my dad, who's not a Metallica fan but was curious to check it out, and even though he's not a musician, he thought Lars was the weak link and that his drumming sounded the same on each song, so clearly it's not just music snobs and elitists who criticize his playing :lol
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^^ Rumors have it regarding that countdown that they are announcing that they will be in the Danny Wimmer US festivals (Epicenter, Sonic Temple, Louder Than Life, Welcome to Rockville, Aftershock, etc.) for 2020, since those festivals are also announcing something at the same time with cryptic posts on their social media.
This is it. They are live on facebook. I just caught some of it and they were saying the festivals and it sounds like they are closing every night of all the festivals with different sets. Sadly they also said Welcome to Rockville is going to be in Daytona this year. Fuck, I'd totally go to see my parents and do the festival if it were in Jacksonville like it had been.
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Sadly they also said Welcome to Rockville is going to be in Daytona this year. Fuck, I'd totally go to see my parents and do the festival if it were in Jacksonville like it had been.
??? You do realize that if you trip and fall in Jacksonville, the odds of you landing in Daytona are actually decent, right?
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Sadly they also said Welcome to Rockville is going to be in Daytona this year. Fuck, I'd totally go to see my parents and do the festival if it were in Jacksonville like it had been.
??? You do realize that if you trip and fall in Jacksonville, the odds of you landing in Daytona are actually decent, right?
Well no, Jacksonville is the largest, by square milage, city in the US. So it's a 90 minute drive from my parents to Daytona. Not exactly a trip and fall distance. Sure, it's not that far on the grand scale of things but it kind of rules out sleeping at my parents for a 3 day festival that is 90 minutes away each way.
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Well, yeah, I know I was exaggerating just a bit. But I didn't realize it was a 3-day festival. For a single day, 90 minutes each way isn't bad. But, yeah, it's a bit much for 3 days.
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I guess James will be ready to go by May. I hope he is getting the treatment he needs in rehab. The most important thing is his health.
I'm currently watching the video hoping to hear any updates on James.
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I didnt see any update on James but I might have missed it. Also, they aren't headlining all nights, just 2 for each of the festivals (they may all be 3 day festivals) but its clear they will play different sets each night which is really cool. I do hope this scheduling has been done with James in mind and that all is going well and he will be ready to hit the road again next year.
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Jacksonville is the largest, by square milage, city in the US.
The largest city in the U.S. by square mileage is nearly four times as large as Jacksonville, and three of the top four cities are more than three times as large.
Jacksonville is the largest in the continental U.S.
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Jacksonville is the largest, by square milage, city in the US.
The largest city in the U.S. by square mileage is nearly four times as large as Jacksonville, and three of the top four cities are more than three times as large.
Jacksonville is the largest in the continental U.S.
:lol anchorage? my bad. Although my only point was that nothing is close even within the city of Jacksonville.
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I mean I may go to Aftershock in Sacramento next year. Why not? I didn't go to San Francisco for S&M since tickets were obviously too expensive and I already have four concerts and a trip in September. I heard good things about the US festivals promoted by Danny Wimmer Presents so hopefully, there's a good lineup supported by Metallica's set and I can see myself fly to Sacramento next year.
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Jacksonville is the largest, by square milage, city in the US.
The largest city in the U.S. by square mileage is nearly four times as large as Jacksonville, and three of the top four cities are more than three times as large.
Jacksonville is the largest in the continental U.S.
I had to check this out since I know Anchorage and it’s relatively small... turns out the top 4 are AK cities (Anchorage is 4th) that have all replaced their county govt so are overly large. But Jacksonville at 5 is the same story, it’s only large due to merging the city with the county.
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Sorry to break up the geography discussion.
So I saw S&M2 last night and....yea, I dunno.
Parts of it were fantastic. Unforgiven 3 is not a song I like, but this version was fantastic. Same with The Day that Never Comes. Hate that song, but really liked this version. The two orchestral pieces were lovely as well. Anesthesia was just mind blowing to be honest, and I expected to be bored.
Some other moments too, but a lot of the others just felt........I dunno. It's hard to name my criticism because none of them apply to the WHOLE show, but to enough of it to tarnish it for me. So, here are the issues, with the caveat that none of them are meant to be 100% and there are plenty of exceptions.
- Lars..........I dunno man. His beats are fine enough, but his fills are often SO out of time that it's actually jarring and I start tapping my foot to see just how much he's speeding up some of those fills. Kudos to the band who can flawlessly keep up with him though. A lesser band would fall apart immediately.
- Kirk........jesus. His rhythm playing is good, but his solos were SO bad on this. Way out of time, sloppy as all hell, just.....bad. This might be one of the worst Kirk performances (lead wise) that I've ever seen/heard.
- The mix seemed odd. Sometimes good, but most of the time it felt like they mixed it solely as a Metallica show and then remembered there was an orchestra and just kind of lazily added it in...at times. On the original S&M, while the guitars were too low, I could always hear all of the very cool the orchestra was doing. On this, the band was mixed amazingly, but I could see the orchestra doing cool stuff but only heard some chords and high end melodies. Hopefully the eventual Blu Ray will be improved on that end.
- Playing wise, a lot of it, definitely not all, but a considerable amount felt like Metallica just played a typical show. On the original S&M it was a special event. Their playing was special. Some of the songs had adjustments made to make best use of the orchestra. But this? Like I said, some exceptions, but the band just did their thing and the orchestra was also there. On No Leaf Clover, when the band play it live now, Kirk plays a few of the orchestra pieces on lead, which makes sense.....BUT HE DID IT HERE TOO! WHY?!?! THE ORCHESTRA IS RIGHT THERE!
- Eh, I dunno. Probably more, but I'm torn. No where near as amazing as S&M, but still fun and worth watching.
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I think Michael Kamen was a key piece that isn’t replaceable.
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I think Michael Kamen was a key piece that isn’t replaceable.
That’s another good point. The new songs arraignments were sometimes cool, but very often EXACTLY what you’d think it would be. Kamen brought a completely unique and amazing voice with the symphony and the newer arrangements just felt more typical and predictable.
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Some cable channel has been running a Classic Albums thing lately, and I caught the one on the Black Album. Pretty cool. I guess I never really thought too much about their inner-workings, but seeing that really made it obvious how it is basically the James and Lars show; Hammett and Newsted came off like hired hands who came in and did what was required when needed.
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Some cable channel has been running a Classic Albums thing lately, and I caught the one on the Black Album. Pretty cool. I guess I never really thought too much about their inner-workings, but seeing that really made it obvious how it is basically the James and Lars show; Hammett and Newsted came off like hired hands who came in and did what was required when needed.
In the studio, for sure. I know they each had a decent amount (though not a TON) of input for the writing.
But yea, before Load, it was mostly just James and Lars doing everything and then Kirk and bassist would come in and do their parts.
Seems like they went back to that for Hardwired.
Though I still believe that anyone BUT Lars should be producing Kirk's solos. When you watch the Black Album stuff, and Bob Rock is working with Kirk, they are well written, melodic, and fantastic. On the newer albums when Lars works with Kirk, it's just "YEA THAT RAWKS!" and it's usually terrible.
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Though I still believe that anyone BUT Lars should be producing Kirk's solos. When you watch the Black Album stuff, and Bob Rock is working with Kirk, they are well written, melodic, and fantastic. On the newer albums when Lars works with Kirk, it's just "YEA THAT RAWKS!" and it's usually terrible.
You know, I've been thinking that next time Metallica is recording and it's time for Kirk to play his solos, someone at the studio should prank him by hiding all his wah-pedals.
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Some cable channel has been running a Classic Albums thing lately, and I caught the one on the Black Album. Pretty cool. I guess I never really thought too much about their inner-workings, but seeing that really made it obvious how it is basically the James and Lars show; Hammett and Newsted came off like hired hands who came in and did what was required when needed.
In the studio, for sure. I know they each had a decent amount (though not a TON) of input for the writing.
But yea, before Load, it was mostly just James and Lars doing everything and then Kirk and bassist would come in and do their parts.
Seems like they went back to that for Hardwired.
Though I still believe that anyone BUT Lars should be producing Kirk's solos. When you watch the Black Album stuff, and Bob Rock is working with Kirk, they are well written, melodic, and fantastic. On the newer albums when Lars works with Kirk, it's just "YEA THAT RAWKS!" and it's usually terrible.
I was watching the mini docs on each of the songs for hardwired and it seems like Metallica was mainly James passion at this point, I could be wrong but he seemed the most interested.
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I was just thinking about the remastered Justice...I heard the version online with the boosted bass guitar, and unlike many people, I don't feel I NEED to hear the bass on this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not like Cliff that did octaves and harmonics, etc. Jason sounds like he's mainly just following the guitars, so there's not much to miss. I'm probably just used to it, but I actually like the dry sound of the original.
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I think you're right. I'm not a bass player and obviously never read the tabs for bass for that album, but it does sound like he just follows the rhythm guitar a lot of the times. As it would be nice to hear some added bottom-end/punch to the songs, the dryness of that album has been so ingrained in me that any other version at this point probably wouldn't sound 'right'.
That said - I still think it was a missed opportunity for them to not release a remixed version along side of the remastered version.
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He totally follows the guitars on that record. But that's not indicative of his skill, obviously. He just joined his favorite band, and didn't want to rock the boat.
I have the box set. The increased bass is on the "rough mixes" CD. I A/B'd the regular disc and that one, just to get a sense of it. You hear the bass, and its a little growlier, but it's not a huge jump.
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Getting ready for Metallica The League and could use the help of fans of the band.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=54592.0
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Soup's on. Go vote!
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=54652.0
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RIP Ray Burton
http://bravewords.com/news/ray-burton-father-of-metallicas-cliff-burton-dead-at-94
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Awww, that's sad news; popular chap in the Metallica community.
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RIP Ray - what an awesome dude who did so much for the Metallica community for so many years.
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(https://i.imgur.com/qn2zuSV.jpg)
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:lol :lol
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That is so awesome!
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That's fucking hilarious. Who is the guy above Hopkins?
I haven't seen S&M 2 but I saw the first one and I don't recall being able to hear much of the orchestra.
Edit: Damn that was 20 years ago. Herrick's first concert. Age 18 :tdwn
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You couldn’t hear the orchestra on the first S&M? It’s rather loud. If anything, the guitars are quiet.
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You couldn’t hear the orchestra on the first S&M? It’s rather loud. If anything, the guitars are quiet.
I'm talking about when they played at New York Shitty in 1999 with the orchestra. I really don't recall hearing it that well if at all.
The only time I listened to the live album was actually on the plane ride home (I was visiting my family for Thanksgiving break & my sister took me to the concert). On the way home, I happened to be sitting next to a dude who had the CD and he let me give it a listen.
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That's fucking hilarious. Who is the guy above Hopkins?
I don't know who either of the top row guys are.
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That's fucking hilarious. Who is the guy above Hopkins?
I don't know who either of the top row guys are.
The other guy is from that motorcycle reality show. The one about the mechanics.
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That's fucking hilarious. Who is the guy above Hopkins?
I don't know who either of the top row guys are.
The other guy is from that motorcycle reality show. The one about the mechanics.
Ummm....
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https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/metallica_speaks_up_on_coronavirus_pandemic_starts_streaming_complete_live_show_from_archive_every_monday.html
"The band has launched a new online series called #MetallicaMondays, where they will stream a live show every Monday".
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Damn, I wish I knew that last night. That Ireland show is amazing!
A very cool thing they are doing. As usual.
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Damn, I wish I knew that last night. That Ireland show is amazing!
A very cool thing they are doing. As usual.
you can still watch it now though, it's archived on their YT channel (as will be any show they'll stream from now on, I would guess)
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Oh, OK, cool!
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Yea, Metallica mondays seem like a great idea.
This might sound spoiled of me, but I hope we get a wide variety of concerts and not just from the last 5-10 years. I'd love a random 90's show or something to show up too.
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Watching right now. After all these years I tend to forget, but James has the stage presence of a mythological creature. Uncanny.
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I'll take pre-Load shows and very quickly pass on anything between '96 and '00.
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I'll take pre-Load shows and very quickly pass on anything between '96 and '00.
Oh shush. The load era shows were awesome. But I’ll take all of it.
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I'd love to see older shows too but did they use to record everything like they do now? I'd imagine we get shows mostly from the last few years, but would love variety. Personally hoping for the two shows I went to for selfish reasons.
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I'll take pre-Load shows and very quickly pass on anything between '96 and '00.
Oh shush. The load era shows were awesome. But I’ll take all of it.
Imo, h*ck no. James' voice was close to the worst it would ever be, it was the debut of playing their 80s stuff in Eb, they were the most Load-heavy setlists we'd ever witness (understandably since it was the new album but it still is a huge drawback for me), and I'm not a drummer but it seemed like Lars began dumbing down some of his beats which has seemingly continued to this day.
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The Eb thing doesn’t bug me. And Lars started oversimplifying his parts the first time he ever played them live.
And I like the load albums. So featuring them heavily is fine to mix in with modern sets which are mostly first 5 albums anyway. Not saying exclusively do 90s era shows, but 2-3 would be nice.
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Imo, h*ck no. James' voice was close to the worst it would ever be
It depends a lot on which song he's singing. If you're talking about songs like Creeping Death well, yes, you're right. But if you're talking about Load songs he sounds incredibly good.
Also, singing a Metallica setlist must be a pain in the ass. One moment you need to sound really deep and melodic like, as in Bleeding Me, and 10 minutes later you have to be screaming your lungs out in Metal Militia. And all the things in between.
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In my opinion, James is the greatest musician in the whole band. Singing that well and playing those fast, precise riffs at the same time - the dude is unreal. I also think he is actually a better guitarist than Kirk. Although that is hard to say because James is a rhythm player, while Kirk is a soloist. But while Kirk tends to simplify and rush over his solos, James playing is still 100% precise and awesome to this day.
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The Metallica mondays thing is pretty cool. I agree that James is the greatest musician in the band, I remember going down the rabbit hole of crappy lars drum videos and came across a video of James playing drums, he was actually pretty damn good.
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In my opinion, James is the greatest musician in the whole band. Singing that well and playing those fast, precise riffs at the same time - the dude is unreal. I also think he is actually a better guitarist than Kirk. Although that is hard to say because James is a rhythm player, while Kirk is a soloist. But while Kirk tends to simplify and rush over his solos, James playing is still 100% precise and awesome to this day.
This. He’s also a pretty decent drummer when he’s noodling around.
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Watching a show on Randy Johnson on MLB right now, and it's being narrated by James Hetfield.
In the first scene, he's now a photographer taking pictures at a Rush show.
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I thought I'd chime in a little.
I agree that James' singing was not the greatest in the 90's. I also agree that James is the greatest musician in the band and one of the greatest, if not THE greatest, metal song writers who has ever lived. And besides the drums, he also plays the piano/keyboards.
I do have to give Lars and Kirk a little love though. I really don't think Metallica would be Metallica without Lars. He has a very signature and easily recognizable style. Plus he is really good at helping James arrange the songs. And he's even written some really good riffs that have been used in some of their songs.
Kirk may not have the technicality that has become more common in metal lead guitarists, but I really like his solo style. It's almost like singing, but I'm not sure that's the right way to put it. And he's written some of Metallica's best riffs.
And... Load and Reload are awesome albums :)
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You had me up until that last line.
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You had me up until that last line.
:rollin
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I feel like Reload perhaps got the shaft of having the weaker batch of songs from the Load/Reload sessions (with a few good ones still) but I would consider Load to be great. It has several good singles like Until it Sleeps and King Nothing, but also it has some of their best long songs like Outlaw Torn and Bleeding Me. Would easily rank Load above Black Album for example.
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It should have been shorter and more concise, if, say, Poor Twisted Me and Cure were released as B-Sides or outtakes and taken off the album (or, dunno, Ronnie), I'm sure not many people would have said "oh Load should have had those songs".
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It should have been shorter and more concise, if, say, Poor Twisted Me and Cure were released as B-Sides or outtakes and taken off the album (or, dunno, Ronnie), I'm sure not many people would have said "oh Load should have had those songs".
But didn't we get a whole album of outtakes?
I actually don't really have a problem with Load. There's like 3 or 4 songs I'd chop off, but I think there's a quality record in there.
But Reload? Other than Fuel, there's just nothing there.
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ReLoad has Devil's Dance, Unforgiven II, Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man's Lyric, and Fixxxer. All fantastic songs.
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ReLoad has Devil's Dance, Unforgiven II, Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man's Lyric, and Fixxxer. All fantastic songs.
We've had this conversation before...
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ReLoad has Devil's Dance, Unforgiven II, Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man's Lyric, and Fixxxer. All fantastic songs.
We've had this conversation before...
Oh good, so I can assume you've seen the error of your ways and agree with me. Carry on. ;D
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ReLoad has Devil's Dance, Unforgiven II, Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man's Lyric, and Fixxxer. All fantastic songs.
We've had this conversation before...
Oh good, so I can assume you've seen the error of your ways and agree with me. Carry on. ;D
Nope. It's called avoiding a brick wall.
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ReLoad has Devil's Dance, Unforgiven II, Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man's Lyric, and Fixxxer. All fantastic songs.
We've had this conversation before...
Oh good, so I can assume you've seen the error of your ways and agree with me. Carry on. ;D
Nope. It's called avoiding a brick wall.
Alrighty. Sorry? Not a great feeling being called a brick wall, but I guess it's my cue to back off.
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It's cool, bro. Just an expression that we will not change each other's minds on the subject.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/fG6b0zth2JXIk/giphy.gif)
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ReLoad has Devil's Dance, Unforgiven II, Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man's Lyric, and Fixxxer. All fantastic songs.
I’m with you man, don’t forget Carpe Diem Baby!
I find myself liking both of those albums equally these days.
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Prince Charming is easily better than half the songs on Load too.
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Even though I like those two albums, I do agree that there are songs on both albums that just aren't very good. I always listen to them combined in a play list with the songs that I don't like taken out. But I really love that play list!
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I remember when I got into Metallica as an angsty teenager, the fact that they changed on Load and Reload was something very negative because they abandoned their 'metal roots' but I think the reason those albums have aged pretty decent for me is that looking through it with adult eyes, I definitely respect the passion and desire to branch out and try new things. If anything I think the albums like St. Anger and Death Magnetic (one definitely worse than the other) were a lot worse as attempts of 'making what the fans want' and just kinda falling flat. The latest album was pretty solid but I don't think Metallica has really written a BANGER of a song since the late 90s with Load/Reload probably.
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Unforgiven II is one of the best songs they’ve ever written. Sue me.
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Even though I like those two albums, I do agree that there are songs on both albums that just aren't very good. I always listen to them combined in a play list with the songs that I don't like taken out. But I really love that play list!
My combined Load/Reload playlist is 5 songs.
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POST YER FUKIN LOAD/R3L0AD 10-TRACK LISTS!1
1. Where the Wild Things Are
2. Carpe Diem
3. Bleeding Me
4. Fixxxer
5. The Outlaw Torn
6. The House That Jack Built
7. King Nothing
8. Until it Sleeps
9. Low Man's Lyric
10. Wasting My Hate
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Unforgiven II is one of the best songs they’ve ever written. Sue me.
Sue you? I'll defend you in tribunal from those who will!
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Unforgiven II is one of the best songs they’ve ever written. Sue me.
Sue you? I'll defend you in tribunal from those who will!
For me, it's easily the best of (the?) The Unforgivens.
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Well, not "easily", the Black Album one is a masterpiece, but yeah, I'd slightly favor the ReLoad one a tiny little bit over the original.
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POST YER FUKIN LOAD/R3L0AD 10-TRACK LISTS!1
1. Where the Wild Things Are
2. Carpe Diem
3. Bleeding Me
4. Fixxxer
5. The Outlaw Torn
6. The House That Jack Built
7. King Nothing
8. Until it Sleeps
9. Low Man's Lyric
10. Wasting My Hate
Nice idea!
Here are mine, in random order.
The House Jack Built
Until It Sleeps
King Nothing
Hero of the Day
Mama Said
Ronnie (criminally underrated)
The Unforgiven II (the best of the The Unforgivens)
Low Man's Lyric (so different, so brilliant)
The Outlaw Torn
Bleeding Me
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I'll bite. Here's mine.
2x4
Until it Sleeps
King Nothing
Bleeding Me
The Outlaw Torn
Devil's Dance
The Unforgiven II
Where the Wild Things Are
Low Man's Lyric
Fixxxer
That's my 10 if I had to do it, but my play list also includes:
The House that Jack Built
Hero of the Day
Slither
Mama Said
Attitude
Carpe Diem Baby
Fuel
The Memory Remains
Narrowing it down to 10 was pretty hard for me.
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Well, not "easily", the Black Album one is a masterpiece, but yeah, I'd slightly favor the ReLoad one a tiny little bit over the original.
Right. I think the original is probably, pound for pound, the better song but I listen to Unforgiven II more.
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1. Ain't My Bitch
2. Fuel
3. Bleeding Me
4. Wasting My Hate
5. The Outlaw Torn
That's it.
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Fuel
2 X 4
Devil’s Dance
Until It Sleeps
The Unforgiven II
Carpe Diem Baby
The Outlaw Torn
Bleeding Me
Where The Wild Things Are
Fixxxer
Man that was hard.
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The House Jack Built
Until It Sleeps
Hero of the Day
Bleeding Me
The Thorn Within
Ronnie
The Outlaw Torn
The Memory Remains
Prince Charming
Fixxxer
Damn that was hard... I like all of Load (it's one of my favorite albums ever) and about half of Reload... I could easily make this list 20+ songs.
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I prefer Reload over Load, but I find both rather average. If I could make them into a solid single album, it would look something like this:
1. Ain't my bitch
2. The Memory remains
3. Until it sleeps
4. King nothing
5. The Unforgiven II
6. Hero of the day
7. Prince charming
8. Low man's lyric
It's short. But it's good. ;D
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Ain't My Bitch
King Nothing
Outlaw
Devil's Dance
Prince Charming
House That Jack Built
Wasting My Hate
Sleeps
Ronnie
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That Monday Metallica concert for this week Paris September 8, 2017...the duo of Seek and Destroy, Leper Messiah is ultra high energy! God damn, the old boys can still rock. :2metal:
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Tonight's concert is from 1991!
Super excited for that!
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Cool, what show?
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Cool, what show?
Muskegon, Michigan (November 1, 1991)
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I'm watching! Brings back memories!
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Last week's show (Germany from May 2015) was pretty great aside from James's vocals on Metal Militia. Looking forward to an earlier era show though :metal
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Very limited and crappy camera work. Very meh mix.
That said.... :metal :metal
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Very limited and crappy camera work. Very meh mix.
That's part of the charm. They allowed bootlegging on this tour. Man, I spent many hours watching shows from this tour.
I love the mix, actually. You can hear the bass clearly.
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Oh yea. There’s immense Newstead going on. But James’ guitar is almost inaudible. Beyond that, mix is fine. I agree.
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Oh yea. There’s immense Newstead going on. But James’ guitar is almost inaudible. Beyond that, mix is fine. I agree.
Yeah, that's true. James is low in the mix, but honestly I'm happy to hear Jason and Kirk. Kirk's solo on Unforgiven was awesome.
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Fade To Black....so good.
Whiplash :metal :metal
EDIT: they are way out of sync on audio/video.
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My contribution to the discussion is that tonight I dream that James Hetfield was walking around the town with a guitar and me and a bunch of other guys were following him singing along to his riffs.
For the record, he was playing Seek & Destroy, and then he started the Symptom of the Universe riff. Which, him being a Sabbath fan, I believe he can actually play.
:rollin
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My contribution to the discussion is that tonight I dream that James Hetfield was walking around the town with a guitar and me and a bunch of other guys were following him singing along to his riffs.
For the record, he was playing Seek & Destroy, and then he started the Symptom of the Universe riff. Which, him being a Sabbath fan, I believe he can actually play.
:rollin
I think you just storyboarded the next Metallica video (either that or your subconscious took some 80s video and mixed it with Seek & Destroy). :lol :lol
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As far as I remember, he was the black album era James, all dressed in black, his guitar was black also. He passed by me alone, so I thought he was there for me, but then eventually other guys tagged along. I mean, who wouldn't want to sing Seek & Destory when Metallica's guitarist and singer is actually walking around playing it? :lol
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As far as I remember, he was the black album era James, all dressed in black, his guitar was black also. He passed by me alone, so I thought he was there for me, but then eventually other guys tagged along. I mean, who wouldn't want to sing Seek & Destory when Metallica's guitarist and singer is actually walking around playing it? :lol
I so very much want to see that video!!
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In other news, we might possibly be getting a new album soon. Maybe
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-could-make-new-album-in-quarantine-says-lars-ulrich/
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Not sure how you got soon from that. He couldn't have been more all over the map.
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Even if they put a serious effort into writing during this period, which is a big if, I wouldn't expect anything soon. They are just very slow songwriters, and have been since the millennium.
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It's weird but they are a band that pretty much does everything right, but the lack of material is a huge negative for me. I'm not sure how to reconcile it.
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I have similar sentiments. They're probably the only band that I follow seriously that is still active, but from whom I have zero expectations of new material. But I think I've pretty much come to terms with the fact that they're evidently content to perpetually tour on their first five albums and a smattering of later material.
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What is maddening is that they still perform with such vigor. As much as I liked Metallica as a kid, and witnessed their rise firsthand, I can't get behind a band that doesn't make new music.
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I wonder who is most at fault for their aversion to creation. I mean most of burden always falls on Het, so maybe it’s him although Lars is one of the laziest tools ever to grace the metal scene.
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My guess is it's Lars. I think the "try new things and avenues" ideas probably usually come from him (film, festival, Lulu stuff) and then are backed up by Kirk. Robert doesn't have any seniority so he might just go with the flow. I think James would prefer to do more albums but probably feels outnumbered by Lars and Kirk, so he just shrugs his shoulders and goes along with it.
However, since the other projects ended up costing a lot and not generating enough revenue, that dynamic will hopefully change. At least I hope so.
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Robert is as old school as they are and I think he has kept them pretty honest on their last two studio albums metal wise.
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Robert is as old school as they are and I think he has kept them pretty honest on their last two studio albums metal wise.
I’m going to bet Robert has had exactly zero influence over their music since he joined beyond his bass parts. Roberts a great bassist but he’s basically a mid level employee at Metallica Inc.
In regards to the lack of material over the years; Metallica was at its best when they had something to prove. Once they dropped the Black Album on the world and became the biggest band on Earth, there simply wasn’t much left to do. Don’t get me wrong, much of their music afterwords has merit but it’s more of a job for them now. And none of them enjoy spending more than a couple of hours in the studio per day , and touring is waaaay more profitable, so they drop an album just frequently enough to stay in the public consciousness and keep the Metallica name in news (hence why Lars made this tease).
I bleed Metallica and will always love the band but that’s kind of the reality of where they are at as a
group.
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I don't know how much Robert had to do with Hardwired, that really did seem like a Lars/James show, but he is credited on every song on Death Magnetic, and James had said that Robert heavily contributed to that album.
And I think after Black Album, Metallica wanted to just explore what they wanted to and try new things, resulting in the loads. Then.....yea, it went downhill after that. But I think they were definitely trying to prove themselves again with Hardwired.
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Robert is as old school as they are and I think he has kept them pretty honest on their last two studio albums metal wise.
I’m going to bet Robert has had exactly zero influence over their music since he joined beyond his bass parts. Roberts a great bassist but he’s basically a mid level employee at Metallica Inc.
In regards to the lack of material over the years; Metallica was at its best when they had something to prove. Once they dropped the Black Album on the world and became the biggest band on Earth, there simply wasn’t much left to do. Don’t get me wrong, much of their music afterwords has merit but it’s more of a job for them now. And none of them enjoy spending more than a couple of hours in the studio per day , and touring is waaaay more profitable, so they drop an album just frequently enough to stay in the public consciousness and keep the Metallica name in news (hence why Lars made this tease).
I bleed Metallica and will always love the band but that’s kind of the reality of where they are at as a
group.
Hit it on the head man. Well said.
Sad but true
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In regards to the lack of material over the years; Metallica was at its best when they had something to prove. Once they dropped the Black Album on the world and became the biggest band on Earth, there simply wasn’t much left to do.
I'd be more inclined to think that the moment that changed was after the Loads. Those albums seem, from a songwriting perspective, to be an attempt to succeed with something other than straight-ahead metal. There's a lot of really creative, outside-the-box stuff on those albums.
After that, everything is pretty much back in the box of "we have to do heavy metal." St. Anger has a little bit of experimentation, but mostly on the production side ("What if we experimented with having really terrible production?"), not so much on the songwriting side. And that was such a failure that I think they wound up deciding to play it as safe as possible from then on.
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Yeah I would probably draw the line with St. Anger and moving forward. Say what you want about Load/Reload - they are definitely different albums in the Metallica discography and there's a lot to appreciate there with a band trying new things. You could throw in Garage Inc as well even though it's covers. But the band were trying to expand and trying new things and from a creative standpoint those albums definitely felt like a band trying and a band with all the right intentions. S&M is like the peak of this I think and a very neat live album.
But then St. Anger was just a trainwreck. I mean we've all seen Some Kind of Monster (which is far more interesting than the album is) but the album itself is just a very bland album. Even though the early 00s metal was considered bad by many of the oldschool metalheads, I think we can all agree that St. Anger still looks terrible compared to bands like Deftones, System of a Down and so on that were big in that time period. Death Magnetic for me felt like a soulless cash grab of trying to make an album that would sound like the old days to stay relevant. And I can't even really blame the band for doing it because so many bands/artists in their position do. You have a few 'duds' and you go back to basics.
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I think Death Magnetic is excellent.
My point was that I would like to think that having Rob gives them a bit of that old school integrity.
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St. Anger has a little bit of experimentation, but mostly on the production side ("What if we experimented with having really terrible production?"), not so much on the songwriting side. And that was such a failure that I think they wound up deciding to play it as safe as possible from then on.
:lol :lol :lol
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Yeah I would probably draw the line with St. Anger and moving forward. Say what you want about Load/Reload - they are definitely different albums in the Metallica discography and there's a lot to appreciate there with a band trying new things. You could throw in Garage Inc as well even though it's covers. But the band were trying to expand and trying new things and from a creative standpoint those albums definitely felt like a band trying and a band with all the right intentions. S&M is like the peak of this I think and a very neat live album.
But then St. Anger was just a trainwreck. I mean we've all seen Some Kind of Monster (which is far more interesting than the album is) but the album itself is just a very bland album. Even though the early 00s metal was considered bad by many of the oldschool metalheads, I think we can all agree that St. Anger still looks terrible compared to bands like Deftones, System of a Down and so on that were big in that time period. Death Magnetic for me felt like a soulless cash grab of trying to make an album that would sound like the old days to stay relevant. And I can't even really blame the band for doing it because so many bands/artists in their position do. You have a few 'duds' and you go back to basics.
I love you.
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I’m not saying everything after the Black Album is crap, I just think they stopped caring as much after that. That’s not to say there isn’t some good music here and there; but let’s be honest, Hetfield and Lars can put together a decent song in their sleep.
They simply lost a lot of the fire...the mojo...on that two year hiatus they took after the non-stop Black Album touring. It was literally their first break since Kill Em All. They starting buying houses, some started families. They also renegotiated their record contract getting a higher royalty fee on album sales. Hmm, sounds like a good reason to release a double album concept filled with super accessible more rock/less metal songs to me.
By this point, Hetfield seems to have partially checked out and relinquished some control to Lars and “management” going as far as admitting to not being 100% behind the Load/Reload material. Maybe it was the money, maybe it was the booze, who knows. Also, notice Hammett started playing rhythm on the albums for the first time and getting a lot more writing credit. Don’t get me wrong, lots of good songs but it sounds like a band without a clear direction, or focus for the first time and I think that’s partially because their main creative force (Hetfield) is, at least mentally, burnt out.
Then we get Garage Inc, which is a lot of fun but really just a 3 week jam session put on tape- not exactly big on “creativity”. At this point I think EVERYONE in the band has checked out, including Jason who starts looking for a creative outlet elsewhere shortly after Garage.
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I really can't agree with that assessment.
I know James had spoken out about the image of Load, but I haven't heard him say he didn't like the music or that he wasn't really present during it.
I think you're taking a little thing and extrapolating a big story out of it. I also can't agree with your assessment of Load that it was just something they did cause it was easy. Everything about it was a huge risk for them, just cause it largely paid off doesn't mean it wasn't a huge risk at the time.
But it's all good. None of us really know what happened.
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I actually totally respect Load.
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Load is fine and not as bad as the metal community likes the crap on it. I don’t agree that it was “risky” though; by 1995 metal was deader than dead (with Pantera being the one exception). Headbangers Ball was cancelled by January ‘95. The Black Album proved the business model. If the Black Album was constructed to gain a wider audience (which we now know it was), then Load/Reload was constructed to keep those fans and gain an even wider audience. Who cares about losing the 3 Kill em All fans when you gain 20 fans with a song like King Nothing. You can say what you want about Metallica’s music, they made BRILLIANT career moves and their timing was impeccable.
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I know James had spoken out about the image of Load, but I haven't heard him say he didn't like the music or that he wasn't really present during it.
I think you're taking a little thing and extrapolating a big story out of it. I also can't agree with your assessment of Load that it was just something they did cause it was easy. Everything about it was a huge risk for them, just cause it largely paid off doesn't mean it wasn't a huge risk at the time.
I very strongly agree with this, and not just because I'm a huge fan of that era (my 80-minute Load/Reload compilation would be my #1 Metallica album by far). The Load albums certainly have their share of radio-friendly songs, but they have far fewer, proportionally, than The Black Album. For every King Nothing or Fuel, there's an Outlaw Torn or Low Man's Lyric. They could very easily have put out an hour-long follow-up to The Black Album with just commercial-friendly metal songs (Ain't My Bitch, 2X4, King Nothing, Cure, Thorn Within, Fuel, Devil's Dance, Better Than You, Carpe Diem Baby, Bad Seed, Attitude: 58 minutes). They did not have to put out two very long albums with some commercial-friendly metal songs intermixed with a bunch of experimental, outside-the-box stuff including two quasi-country songs. The commercial-friendly decision would have been not to do that. I think it's to their credit that they did.
And this is somewhat of a subjective thing, but to me those albums are the Jamesiest albums in the discography, because so many of the songs are clearly so very personal to him. One thing that he did really well on those albums was becoming more personal as a lyricist and vocalist. The lyrics tend to be more genuine and, to me, often moving. And he dropped the overproduced thrash vocals that he used on RTL, MoP, AJFA, and, to a lesser extent, TBA, so that you can actually hear his voice, alone, *singing* the songs with emotion, instead of a five-layer half-shout.
Sure, he has expressed distaste for the image Lars and Kirk were doing, but that was the image, not the music. I strongly suspect that the musical direction at that time was heavily driven by James. (Anecdotally, many of the more experimental songs are credited to Hetfield/Ulrich, which I—potentially erroneously, but I think with some justification—tend to treat as "Hetfield alone.") I've seen Metallica fans who don't like the Load era use that quote to try to paint the whole musical direction as some road that Kirk and Lars were dragging James (and sometimes Jason) down kicking and screaming, and I think that's making far too much out of a single, very limited remark.
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They could very easily have put out an hour-long follow-up to The Black Album with just commercial-friendly metal songs (Ain't My Bitch, 2X4, King Nothing, Cure, Thorn Within, Fuel, Devil's Dance, Better Than You, Carpe Diem Baby, Bad Seed, Attitude: 58 minutes).
I consider those songs I bolded very bad and I think in general the whole batch you listed doesn't hold a candle against Enter Sandman, Sad But True, Nothing Else Matters, The Unforgiven and Wherever I May Roam in terms of accessibility and potential success. And hey, some actual singles, like The Memory Remains with that cool video and The Unforgiven II which reprises here and there the original song, had probably more success anyway.
I mean, sure Load is no uncompromising like Justice, but I don't think of it as a planned attempt to recapture the commercial success of the Black Album, they needed other kind of songs to do that and yeah, Ain't My Bitch is catchy and accessible but not even Metallica fans remember it, while everyone and their mother know about Enter Sandman and Nothing Else Matters. Bon Jovi, after their historical albums of the '80s, had in 2000 another major hit in It's My Life; I can't think of any song on Load that could have been the new Enter Sandman, or something that gives blatantly the idea of being an attempt at having another mainstream hit.
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I can't think of any song on Load that could have been the new Enter Sandman, or something that gives blatantly the idea of being an attempt at having another mainstream hit.
Oh cooome on. They literally wrote a song called Unforgiven TWO.
If we’re going to limit it to Load specifically (although the demos were all done at the same time I believe); Until it Sleeps, Hero of the Day, King Nothing (all the singles, not surprisingly) are clear attempts at catchy, radio friendly fare. The lead off singles were the “softer” Until it Sleeps and Hero of the Day. Just because they aren’t as good as Enter Sandman is a bit beside the point.
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Ain't My Bitch is one of the ONLY songs from the Loads that I DO remember. :lol
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They could very easily have put out an hour-long follow-up to The Black Album with just commercial-friendly metal songs (Ain't My Bitch, 2X4, King Nothing, Cure, Thorn Within, Fuel, Devil's Dance, Better Than You, Carpe Diem Baby, Bad Seed, Attitude: 58 minutes).
I consider those songs I bolded very bad and I think in general the whole batch you listed doesn't hold a candle against Enter Sandman, Sad But True, Nothing Else Matters, The Unforgiven and Wherever I May Roam in terms of accessibility and potential success. And hey, some actual singles, like The Memory Remains with that cool video and The Unforgiven II which reprises here and there the original song, had probably more success anyway.
I also think those songs are bad, except Cure, which I think is okay. Also not a fan of Carpe Diem Baby. But I think you got the point of why I selected that list: It's the closest that you can come of the Load material to stuff that would be an attempted recreation of The Black Album, and the albums they actually decided to release are very different from that collection, let alone from The Black Album itself.
I can't think of any song on Load that could have been the new Enter Sandman, or something that gives blatantly the idea of being an attempt at having another mainstream hit.
Oh cooome on. They literally wrote a song called Unforgiven TWO.
Which is pretty different from the first one, even including a pretty strong country influence. Certainly not what one would have written to try to play it safe and duplicate the success of the first.
If we’re going to limit it to Load specifically (although the demos were all done at the same time I believe); Until it Sleeps, Hero of the Day, King Nothing (all the singles, not surprisingly) are clear attempts at catchy, radio friendly fare. The lead off singles were the “softer” Until it Sleeps and Hero of the Day. Just because they aren’t as good as Enter Sandman is a bit beside the point.
King Nothing is the one I'll give you, since it is very much like Enter Sandman.
Until It Sleeps and Hero of the Day are very different territory for Metallica. Sure, they're relatively accessible songs, but they're not at all what you would expect from a band that was trying to simply imitate its previous, successful release.
You kind of have to pick an argument here. If your view is that writing "catchy, radio friendly fare" is orienting their songwriting toward commercial success, then you have to say that The Black Album is when that happened. If your view is that trying to imitate their most successful album(s) is orienting their songwriting toward commercial success, than you can't say that happened with the Loads, because they do not imitate The Black Album (or any other Metallica album). There are some similar songs, like King Nothing and Devil's Dance, but those are a minority of the 27 songs, and the mere presence of other, very different, radio-friendly songs does not an imitation make.
And Until It Sleeps and Hero of the Day both absolutely blow Enter Sandman out of the water. Hero of the Day is a top five Metallica song. :P
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I think the argument is (at least, in my opinion) is that *after* AJFA, Metallica started to want to become more catchy and accessible. This started with TBA. It was more catchy and accessible than any previous album while still somewhat maintaining their label as a "metal" band. With the Loads, they tried to expand even further into even MORE accessible territory. Trying for mainstream sounds that were outside the metal influence, hoping to gain an even bigger audience by appealing to more than just the metal crowd.
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Yeah, I get that it is an argument, but I think that relies on a very partial view of the Load albums.
The Black Album is twelve accessible songs, straight through, one through twelve, almost all in the same style. That's not at all either Load or Reload.
Part of my point is that if their real goal on Load was "to expand even further into even MORE accessible territory," that album would have looked very, very different. They would've thrown Outlaw Torn and Bleeding Me straight into the garbage, just for starters.
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Well, but that's part of the problem. When you're trying to appeal to literally EVERYONE, you often end up with a disjointed mess, which is exactly what the Load/Reload project sounds like to many people. Even Outlaw Torn and Bleeding Me were an attempt to appeal to a different type of crowd. Even if it's from the "let's throw in a couple epics to appease the artsy crowd" angle.
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I think the argument is (at least, in my opinion) is that *after* AJFA, Metallica started to want to become more catchy and accessible. This started with TBA. It was more catchy and accessible than any previous album while still somewhat maintaining their label as a "metal" band. With the Loads, they tried to expand even further into even MORE accessible territory. Trying for mainstream sounds that were outside the metal influence, hoping to gain an even bigger audience by appealing to more than just the metal crowd.
Yes this sums up what I’m trying to say.
Again don’t get me wrong, I actually enjoy Load/Reload (Unforgiven II is a top 10 Metallica song in my opinion). I can enjoy them and see their worth as musical statements but ALSO acknowledge much of those albums were deliberately constructed to appeal to radio/MTV/a large audience. I reject the notion that these albums were “risky”, however. The Black Album proved they could afford to sacrifice some of the metal aspects and gain a huge fan base.
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Unless you're some super hardcore underground band, then every band wants to appeal to a bigger audience, it's just that most can't pull it off. But almost every band people listen to (again, minus the super underground ones that are actively trying not to appeal to more people) are writing multiple songs on every album with the hope it'll get them WAY more fans. So this isn't some weird Metallica thing, they just succeeded where most others failed.
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IDK...I would argue that many bands (especially in prog, which is why I'm drawn to it more) are writing *for themselves* more than others. They have a hope that they might find an audience that will like the stuff they do as much as they do, but they are not doing it for them. They do it because it is their creative outlet, and so they write for self expression. If it finds an audience, that's a bonus.
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IDK...I would argue that many bands (especially in prog, which is why I'm drawn to it more) are writing *for themselves* more than others. They have a hope that they might find an audience that will like the stuff they do as much as they do, but they are not doing it for them. They do it because it is their creative outlet, and so they write for self expression. If it finds an audience, that's a bonus.
Eh, to a degree. They aren't abandoning everything they do to get an audience, but they definitely are trying to make those vocals as catchy as they can for a reason, and not because it's the most artistic thing to do. Metallica wrote Load with some VERY personal stuff. They explored what they wanted to and also wanted part of it be accessible and catchy. But you don't write 2/3 of those two albums as a means of capturing a large audience without consideration for their artistic merit. I'd say for every King Nothing, there's 2-3 songs that are just Lars wanting to explore his weird interests, Kirk wanting to expand his sound, James wanting to write very personal lyics, and Jason being Jason. No different than the prog dudes, it's just that prog is automatically going to be less successful.
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I've said this before, but if Metallica has ANY album that I personally see as being more heavily focused on pleasing fans and less about artistic merit, it's Death Magnetic.
But with Metallica there seems to be a narrative that anything other than fast and heavy is selling out and that fast and heavy, by definition, is authentic. I don't see it.
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Unless you're some super hardcore underground band, then every band wants to appeal to a bigger audience, it's just that most can't pull it off. But almost every band people listen to (again, minus the super underground ones that are actively trying not to appeal to more people) are writing multiple songs on every album with the hope it'll get them WAY more fans. So this isn't some weird Metallica thing, they just succeeded where most others failed.
That’s fair.
That goes to my original point though, Metallica at its best is when they had a fire up their ass and had something to prove.
With Kill Em All they wanted to be the fastest “most metal band” ever, Ride the Lightning they wanted to start proving themselves as legitimate songwriters, And Justice For All they set out to show off their abilities as technical musicians. The Black Album was about proving their music could reach a mainstream audience (and avenge the Grammy loss lol).
By the time we get to Load/Reload it’s more about “having fun, experimenting with different sounds”. That’s why I say we start seeing the cracks there- following the Black Album. “Having fun” Metallica struggles with focus, even getting in the studio and getting shit done which is why we only see an album once every few odd years, and the output is spotty at best. The lack of driving motivation is why we see the “aversion to creation” both in quantity and quality over the years.
They had an amazing run though. 83-93 is probably the greatest 10 year run of any band with the exception of maybe the Beatles?
For the record, I also think Death Magnetic is a soulless fan-service record. I’m not the typical metal head who honestly believes they should have made Master of Puppets over and over again.
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Unless you're some super hardcore underground band, then every band wants to appeal to a bigger audience, it's just that most can't pull it off. But almost every band people listen to (again, minus the super underground ones that are actively trying not to appeal to more people) are writing multiple songs on every album with the hope it'll get them WAY more fans. So this isn't some weird Metallica thing, they just succeeded where most others failed.
That’s fair.
That goes to my original point though, Metallica at its best is when they had a fire up their ass and had something to prove.
With Kill Em All they wanted to be the fastest “most metal band” ever, Ride the Lightning they wanted to start proving themselves as legitimate songwriters, And Justice For All they set out to show off their abilities as technical musicians. The Black Album was about proving their music could reach a mainstream audience (and avenge the Grammy loss lol).
By the time we get to Load/Reload it’s more about “having fun, experimenting with different sounds”. That’s why I say we start seeing the cracks there- following the Black Album. “Having fun” Metallica struggles with focus, even getting in the studio and getting shit done which is why we only see an album once every few odd years, and the output is spotty at best. The lack of driving motivation is why we see the “aversion to creation” both in quantity and quality over the years.
They had an amazing run though. 83-93 is probably the greatest 10 year run of any band with the exception of maybe the Beatles?
For the record, I also think Death Magnetic is a soulless fan-service record. I’m not the typical metal head who honestly believes they should have made Master of Puppets over and over again.
I agree with everything but the part I crossed out. I agree Metallica has a major problem with the studio, and that they don't have focus anymore, but I don't see that connected to trying to be experimental and expressing themselves.
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I certainly don't view it that way. I'm with you on DM and HW. (though HW was a better attempt IMO). The difference is that when they were doing RtL-AJFA, they were young and pissed and metal heads and so there was a certain degree of "honesty" to it. But they were definitely beginning to repeat themselves. (open with a thrasher, follow it with an epic title track, follow that with a mid-paced stomper, close side 1 with a ballad...etc...etc.... rinse, lather, repeat) So once you've done that formula to death and you want to do something different, you have a choice.
Just as a hypothetical (and yes, I've made this argument before) what if they had explored tribal sounds like what Sepultura was doing and then released something even heavier? It wouldn't have sold 10 million copies and been the commercial darling that TBA was, but it most likely would have become a critical and artistic triumph. But they saw an opportunity to simplify and fill stadiums and they took it.
But getting back to DM and HW, it doesn't feel honest any more. They obviously just aren't that much into thrash anymore and it shows. I personally have more respect for Lulu, because it was obviously a passion project. In fact, I feel bad for that album. Because as much as I respect Lou Reed, he was the one who really ruined that album. There are definitely "lost gems" on Lulu that I wish they would embrace more. But, that doesn't fill the seats and pay the bills, so here we are.
This is why I would never EVER want to be a musician. Because the minute you start relying on music for your income, you no longer answer to yourself. You answer to your "customers". That's the opposite of artistic integrity to me.
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Maybe they didn't want to explore tribal stuff? I dunno dude. Maybe they did exactly what they wanted to do artistically and it's just not what you wanted them to do or what connected with you.
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Tribal was meant to be a red herring. It's not "what I wanted them to do"...I just picked it at random because it was something different than mainstream that was in the buzz at the time.
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Tribal was meant to be a red herring. It's not "what I wanted them to do"...I just picked it at random because it was something different than mainstream that was in the buzz at the time.
Oh totally, but I mean you seem to be operating under the assumption that what they did wasn't based on artistic integrity or that they should have avoided anything mainstream. I see no signs of that, minus DM and I could very well be wrong. Nor do I think mainstream music is somehow inferior. Believe me, if I had the ability to write a great catchy song? I'd jump on that in a minute. Even if no one heard it but me.
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Well, but that's part of the problem. When you're trying to appeal to literally EVERYONE, you often end up with a disjointed mess, which is exactly what the Load/Reload project sounds like to many people. Even Outlaw Torn and Bleeding Me were an attempt to appeal to a different type of crowd. Even if it's from the "let's throw in a couple epics to appease the artsy crowd" angle.
I just don't really see this at all. It seems to me like you're starting from the assumption that everything on those albums was just an attempt to please some type of person, and when you start with a claim that broad, literally anything can be evidence for it.
I could just as easily say that ...And Justice for All was just an attempt to please people, and so they wrote To Live is to Die just to please the fans of long instrumentals, and they wrote Dyers Eve to please thrash fans, and they wrote Eye of the Beholder to please fans of mid-tempo chugging riffs, and they wrote One to please MTV (as many thrash fans actually do claim), and so on.
It doesn't make sense to start with the conclusion, especially a conclusion that can't really be disproven, and then make the evidence fit it. I say start with the evidence and see what it proves or suggests. Metallica writing two highly diverse albums on the heels of their big commercial success *could* suggest that they were trying to please a bunch of different types of people... but it could just as easily suggest, as Volante put it, that they had a lot of experiments they were interested in trying, and decided to try them.
I think the motives for the second one make a lot more sense. Why would they be motivated to try to please every different type of music fan? What would be the benefit? They already knew that the key to massive sales was to make a straightforward, commercial-friendly metal album with a couple of ballads mixed in. If they were concerned about pleasing a lot of people, why not just stick to the tactic that had already proven to be a people-pleaser? Who cares if you can add 500 members of the "artsy crowd," if that comes at the expense of time you could spend on another radio hit to add another 50,000 members of the radio hit crowd?
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It's funny hearing I Disappear now. That song was a good back to form type song. If only they continued writing more songs. Instead we got the Temper tantrum album.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_yeICLSDOQ
Quarantine reworking of Blackened (partially acoustic).
Very cool! I'd love as many of these as they'd like to do.
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That was great, it's always strange to hear songs from Justice with bass. Love that arrangement.
I'm going to have to revisit some of their old stuff, been watching some of those reaction videos of the Lost in Vegas doing One and even St.Anger, they had some interesting feedback on that track.
Going to have to check out those remasters and see if they are worth it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_yeICLSDOQ
Quarantine reworking of Blackened (partially acoustic).
Very cool! I'd love as many of these as they'd like to do.
That was a lot better than I would have expected. Hetfield's the Man.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_yeICLSDOQ
Quarantine reworking of Blackened (partially acoustic).
They're so wanting to make an acoustic, toned down-yet-dark album. Or at least an album with acoustic reinterpretations of their heavier songs
And I'd be all up for it
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Lol besides the solo was Kirk’s amp even turned on?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_yeICLSDOQ
Quarantine reworking of Blackened (partially acoustic).
They're so wanting to make an acoustic, toned down-yet-dark album. Or at least an album with acoustic reinterpretations of their heavier songs
And I'd be all up for it
If they didn't take forever between albums, one could basically "forgive" them for doing a one-off experimental album like that. Let's say if Dream Theater would do a totally different kind of album within the restrinctions of the quarantine, would people really hold it against them? it's not that with DT the situation would be "Oh come on, it was 5 years ago that you last released an album, and now you give an acoustic one?".
But more generally, I'd be happy for them to do something off field like that, their cover of Loverman proves that they have that kind of feel in their veins.
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Man, that was great!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_yeICLSDOQ
As if that wasn't tantalising enough ...
Kirk is playing the coils inverted '59 Les Paul owned by the likes of Peter Green and Gary Moore.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_yeICLSDOQ
As if that wasn't tantalising enough ...
Kirk is playing the coils inverted '59 Les Paul owned by the likes of Peter Green and Gary Moore.
It’s incredible to me he paid (rumored) almost a million dollars for it and gigs with it regularly. I would honestly hate to be his guitar tech responsible for that monstrosity.
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Lol besides the solo was Kirk’s amp even turned on?
I thought the same thing, it sounded so solid with just James, Lars, and Robert.
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He was on just mostly doubling James and James was much louder. But when he did his own thing you can hear him.
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On a related Kirk note, I was going down a rabbit hole of Metallica info last night and was very surprised to learn that Kirk rarely recorded the rhythm guitars on most of their studio albums. He would just play the leads and James would double the rhythms or play different parts of it.
I guess it shouldn't have surprised me but I found it rather interesting.
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On a related Kirk note, I was going down a rabbit hole of Metallica info last night and was very surprised to learn that Kirk rarely recorded the rhythm guitars on most of their studio albums. He would just play the leads and James would double the rhythms or play different parts of it.
I guess it shouldn't have surprised me but I found it rather interesting.
Yea. The Loads, St. Anger and I think DM were ex exceptions.
And since James does all the solos on Nothing Else Matters, it’s actually one of the few (maybe only?) songs Kirk isn’t even on for the studio version.
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On a related Kirk note, I was going down a rabbit hole of Metallica info last night and was very surprised to learn that Kirk rarely recorded the rhythm guitars on most of their studio albums. He would just play the leads and James would double the rhythms or play different parts of it.
I guess it shouldn't have surprised me but I found it rather interesting.
Yea. The Loads, St. Anger and I think DM were ex exceptions.
And since James does all the solos on Nothing Else Matters, it’s actually one of the few (maybe only?) songs Kirk isn’t even on for the studio version.
Nah, James did all rhythms on DM. So Kirk only did Load, Reload and St. Anger
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I wonder why they went with James doing all the rhythm parts.
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If I remember right, I think it had to do with the "return to form" approach that Rick Rubin was going for.
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Which is funny, cause they got the "return to form" they needed. And resulted in an album that is what should've been done after the Loads.
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Which is funny, cause they got the "return to form" they needed. And resulted in an album that is what should've been done after the Loads.
DM? Nah
But hardwired, for sure.
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I wonder why they went with James doing all the rhythm parts.
It makes sense as James is doing several tracks of rhythm already, there’s no real point of having Kirk in there. Why spend more time in studio (which they don’t seem to fond of) teaching Kirk all these parts? It was probably a matter of efficiency in the early days. These days, Hetfield can exercise his inner “control freak” with the rhythm guitars, and Kirk can spend more time surfing. Win win for everybody.
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Lol besides the solo was Kirk’s amp even turned on?
I love the comment that "Kirk got fully Jasoned in this one."
:lol :lol
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House Of Vans 2016 show tonight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVgJSL29Jm8
:metal :metal
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House Of Vans 2016 show tonight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVgJSL29Jm8
:metal :metal
Turned it on at MoP. Lars has been surprisingly solid.
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In at Whiskey. What a glorious live tune.
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In at Whiskey. What a glorious live tune.
:metal :metal
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In at Whiskey. What a glorious live tune.
Me too, I never realized Hetfield played lead/solo on that one.
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In at Whiskey. What a glorious live tune.
Me too, I never realized Hetfield played lead/solo on that one.
You gotta watch them performing this song in its homeland in front of 75,000 fans! Check it, it is amazing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MNdOCQYOL8
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I actually almost posted the same link last night. That's a great show.
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In at Whiskey. What a glorious live tune.
Me too, I never realized Hetfield played lead/solo on that one.
You gotta watch them performing this song in its homeland in front of 75,000 fans! Check it, it is amazing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MNdOCQYOL8
Cool performance...I just cannot get over how awful Lars' technique is though.
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So this Vans gig might be Lars' best in a REALLY long time. He's still Lars, but man he's way tighter and consistent here than I've seen him in a very very long time.
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I agree, I was watching the Vans gig and it was a great set.
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I look forward to watching it at some point this week. I usually try to find a block of a couple of hours where I'm catching up on stuff around the house to go through each week's concert.
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METALLICA's James Hetfield Walks You Through His Car Collection
https://metalinjection.net/video/metallicas-james-hetfield-walks-you-through-his-car-collection
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He has an awesome collection
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He has an awesome collection
You are right, I was like OMG when I saw his cars.
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Exactly one year ago I saw Metallica live, on a rainy day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzDMbJ52898
One year ago I thought that it sucked to see a concert under the rain. Now I know that the real suckage is not seeing any concert at all because of a global pandemic!!!
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Just watched the Munich, Germany show they just posted. Man what a show. Trujillo introduced it and said he wishes they could play that set every night. Metal Militia, Fight Fire With Fire, Disposable Heroes, etc etc. Band was a amazing, even Lars who I had no problem with. I mean, besides the constant tongue which looks ridiculous but whatever.
Got me thinking, anyone want to tackle a Top 5 list of Metallica concerts? Mine would start with Seattle ‘89 but this Munich one would rank up there.
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What Munich show did they post? The last few have been Austria, England, and Michigan I think. Maybe different countries are getting different posts.
Tonight is a show from 1983. That should be pretty interesting.
Still holding out for a late 90's show.
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The show going up tonight is from 83, which I'm excited about. Last week was the 2012(?) festival show where they played all of the Black Album, the week before was the Munich show with all the rarities.
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Am I mistaken or are bits of this concert in the Cliff'em All VHS? It looks so familiar.
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Yeah, Lars said that two tracks were on Cliff 'Em All.
I love this era. I remember this tour. Except I was only 14 and they were playing in a club.
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I've played that VHS to death.
The recording is pretty wobbly, and James guitar's tuning is apparently: E / A / Db / WTF / B / E :D
They rip like hell though
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Yeah, as did I.
I love these songs. That had great arrangements, and this is still my favorite Metallica album.
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The guitar theft / recovery is priceless! :lol
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The guitar theft / recovery is priceless! :lol
Yeah it was like Heavy Metal Baywatch jumped into the crowd and saved the guitar. :lol
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Kirk: "Ok, if it was '89 you could keep it alright, but right now we're broke and I need that!"
It's endearing to see them so young and shitfaced.
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Social media a month ago: “Stream some old skool concerts already!!!”
Social media tonight: “Why does this look so shitty??”
Gotta love Metallica “fans”
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Speaking strictly as a soloist/lead player, Kirk was the perfect replacement for Mustaine. His playing live on these songs take the basic structure of Mustaine’s solos and cleans them up, much more polished, and...palatable. I know that sounds counter productive for a thrash band but their sound improved GREATLY when Kirk came aboard while still remaining true to the original feel of the songs.
Impressive for a kid who was only 20-21 years old at the time.
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The recording is pretty wobbly, and James guitar's tuning is apparently: E / A / Db / WTF / B / E :D
:lol :lol :lol
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Am I mistaken or are bits of this concert in the Cliff'em All VHS? It looks so familiar.
I was wondering this too but it's been sooooo long since I watched that VHS. I thought this stream was great. Sound and picture were great when you consider the times and so cool to see them so young and in a small venue.
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Indeed, the concept of Metallica being a young band of long haired kids was alien to me for so many years.
I mean, I discovered them as a teenager, while I was in high school. When you're in your first year, kids of the last year will already seem "adult" to you, so by then - Load era - Metallica were already adults and while I stumbled upon pictures of them young, they always looked, well, adult to me.
Couple that with the inexperience of a teen fan who was barely starting to understand how the music world was working and was seeing his early idols as demigods, and you have years of not even being able to fathom that famous bands are not otherwordly beings descended from another planet, but normal people that just like me were once young, inexperienced and playing in small venues. I imagined early success meaning big money and big concerts already, it was years before I could see Metallica as just another band that played small places and eventually made it big.
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Anyone else watching the Salt Lake City show tonight?
Kirk is on fire. He's killing it. Lars too.
Apparently they told the film crew to not shoot Jason.
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Anyone else watching the Salt Lake City show tonight?
Kirk is on fire. He's killing it. Lars too.
Apparently they told the film crew to not shoot Jason.
:lol All these words don't go together.
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Haven’t watched it yet but I was hoping for mid/late 90s show. Pumped we got one. Will watch tomorrow.
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I wonder how many people, back in the days before anything could go viral and widespread over the internet, bought into the "oh no the stage exploded" act at the end of Enter Sandman. By watching it, it surely seemed belieavable, maybe when the stage conveniently is reduced to the small section where they could play like in the early days the doubt that it was planned could arise, but without the virality of the internet I assume quite some people thought "Oh shit Metallica are risking to die in front of me".
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I had spoiled it for myself by reading a concert review in Metal Hammer, but it was still a very cool thing to witness live.
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I wonder how many people, back in the days before anything could go viral and widespread over the internet, bought into the "oh no the stage exploded" act at the end of Enter Sandman. By watching it, it surely seemed belieavable, maybe when the stage conveniently is reduced to the small section where they could play like in the early days the doubt that it was planned could arise, but without the virality of the internet I assume quite some people thought "Oh shit Metallica are risking to die in front of me".
I just watched it, it was really cool to see.
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I wonder how many people, back in the days before anything could go viral and widespread over the internet, bought into the "oh no the stage exploded" act at the end of Enter Sandman. By watching it, it surely seemed belieavable, maybe when the stage conveniently is reduced to the small section where they could play like in the early days the doubt that it was planned could arise, but without the virality of the internet I assume quite some people thought "Oh shit Metallica are risking to die in front of me".
There was definitely a bunch who did fall for it. Not too long ago, I was reading a bunch of old Ytsejams from the time that that tour was happening, and there were several people who made posts about the show, only to find out that it had happened elsewhere. So it was a secret that was better hidden than something similar today, but not completely the way it was in the days before the internet.
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I wonder how many people, back in the days before anything could go viral and widespread over the internet, bought into the "oh no the stage exploded" act at the end of Enter Sandman. By watching it, it surely seemed belieavable, maybe when the stage conveniently is reduced to the small section where they could play like in the early days the doubt that it was planned could arise, but without the virality of the internet I assume quite some people thought "Oh shit Metallica are risking to die in front of me".
There was definitely a bunch who did fall for it. Not too long ago, I was reading a bunch of old Ytsejams from the time that that tour was happening, and there were several people who made posts about the show, only to find out that it had happened elsewhere. So it was a secret that was better hidden than something similar today, but not completely the way it was in the days before the internet.
I certainly fell for it when I watched the VHS tape of the tour as a child (which wouldn't be surprising at that point I would guess) and inevitably I was frightened to bits about that part of the show.
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Watching the Manchester show that was posted last night. The beginning of Master of Puppets with the rain POURING down, and Lars standing up and beating the crap out of his cymbals with water flying everywhere is both funny and epic!
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Watching the Manchester show that was posted last night. The beginning of Master of Puppets with the rain POURING down, and Lars standing up and beating the crap out of his cymbals with water flying everywhere is both funny and epic!
I'm surprised their instruments lasted through the rain. Great show/setlist though. And Lars sounds pretty decent here even though his fills are still outrageously out of place.
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So, I'm sorry, it's a little hard to follow; if I wanted to see that stage set where it looks like the stage blows up, how can I do that? Anything officially released that shows that or do I need to go "ROIO"? What tour/legs was that?
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I will repeat what I am sure 99.999% of fans have said through the years: Lars really needs to calm down and stay on beat and on tempo during For Whom the Bell Tolls and Creeping Death. Every single show. And yet, every single time I see/hear a new one, I still somehow forget and am surprised when he speeds it up and screws up the timing with his fills. :lol
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I will repeat what I am sure 99.999% of fans have said through the years: Lars really needs to calm down and stay on beat and on tempo during For Whom the Bell Tolls and Creeping Death. Every single show. And yet, every single time I see/hear a new one, I still somehow forget and am surprised when he speeds it up and screws up the timing with his fills. :lol
I'd be ashamed as can be if that happened to me every time I play my instrument. (I like most of the earlier Metallica songs, meaning up until the black album, but I can't bear to listen to them because of Lars. Sorry. Cliff Burton though....)
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So, I'm sorry, it's a little hard to follow; if I wanted to see that stage set where it looks like the stage blows up, how can I do that? Anything officially released that shows that or do I need to go "ROIO"? What tour/legs was that?
I believe it was from their Load/ReLoad days if I'm not mistaken. And assuming that's the right tour cycle, Cunning Stunts would be their official release that would show this - or you could obviously look up any other shows from that tour. I haven't watched Cunning Stunts in probably close to 20 years but I'm pretty sure it's on that at the end of Sandman.
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So, I'm sorry, it's a little hard to follow; if I wanted to see that stage set where it looks like the stage blows up, how can I do that? Anything officially released that shows that or do I need to go "ROIO"? What tour/legs was that?
I believe it was from their Load/ReLoad days if I'm not mistaken. And assuming that's the right tour cycle, Cunning Stunts would be their official release that would show this - or you could obviously look up any other shows from that tour. I haven't watched Cunning Stunts in probably close to 20 years but I'm pretty sure it's on that at the end of Sandman.
yes, I'm 95% sure it was (although the last time I watched the thing was probably 20 years ago as well), because, oddly enough, that's a part of the show I can still remember.
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Watching the Manchester show that was posted last night. The beginning of Master of Puppets with the rain POURING down, and Lars standing up and beating the crap out of his cymbals with water flying everywhere is both funny and epic!
Same happened at my show, one month earlier. Rainy day, it stopped already during Ghost, and ir restarted again in the middle of the show, precisely when they "came forward" to play with the drums being moved up front.
Of course I would have preferred a sunny show, but now that I lived through it, I have to say that memories of hearing Creeping Death with a red light all over the stage and the rain pouring down hard is a badass one :metal
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The raining Manchester encore of Lords of Summer is excellent. It's a good song and they played it well. Even Lars. And seeing shows in the rain is always cool.
That got me into the rabbit hole last night, and the amount of material they make available to their fans is really something else. Soundboards are made available almost immediately for every show, and from what I understand they're free to anybody with a ticket stub. They release 2 or 3 proshot videos of each show for free, and occasionally dump an entire show on YT like they did with Manchester. Moreover, according to SetlistFM, there were 60 songs played 3 or more times this tour. With an average of 16 songs per show this is a ton of song rotation. And it includes some real oddballs, which thankfully they've made available. I was thrilled to stumble across a recent performance of Outlaw Torn last night, and while there's certainly some post production work done on it, it's still great to see and they did a nice job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs8pt9aK4mc
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So, I'm sorry, it's a little hard to follow; if I wanted to see that stage set where it looks like the stage blows up, how can I do that? Anything officially released that shows that or do I need to go "ROIO"? What tour/legs was that?
That was the LOAD tour. 1996/1997
They put up a show of that last week.
Or just watch Cunning Stunts.
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Kotowboy's Hot Take !!
I love playing drums to St. Anger. I honestly think his actual PLAYING on the album is his most creative and energetic. Even more so than And Justice For All.
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Kotowboy's Hot Take !!
I love playing drums to St. Anger. I honestly think his actual PLAYING on the album is his most creative and energetic. Even more so than And Justice For All.
Scalding hot take.
I think you may be the only person in the entire local star group to think that. His playing on St. Anger through Hardwired is the bare minimum a drummer should play (and it's all done rather sloppily) whereas the drumming on Justice has actual composition and thought put into it. St. Anger is just mindless bashing for 80 minutes though I haven't listened to it in many years and forgot a lot of it so maybe there's a few moments where there's mindless non-bashing going on.
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Kotowboy's Hot Take !!
I love playing drums to St. Anger. I honestly think his actual PLAYING on the album is his most creative and energetic. Even more so than And Justice For All.
As a drummer, I'll actually agree that his playing (for him, specifically) is pretty creative and energetic, though less so than it would've been if James hadn't hammered into him to just play a beat most of the time.
But that's it. AJFA and Load/Reload are way more creative forms of drumming.
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Kotowboy's Hot Take !!
I love playing drums to St. Anger. I honestly think his actual PLAYING on the album is his most creative and energetic. Even more so than And Justice For All.
Scalding hot take.
I think you may be the only person in the entire local star group to think that. His playing on St. Anger through Hardwired is the bare minimum a drummer should play (and it's all done rather sloppily) whereas the drumming on Justice has actual composition and thought put into it. St. Anger is just mindless bashing for 80 minutes though I haven't listened to it in many years and forgot a lot of it so maybe there's a few moments where there's mindless non-bashing going on.
QFT
An equally hot take: I love playing along to the guitar solos on St Anger.
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I have 2 unrelated points to make, but here's some background that is relevant to both:
Background: I got into Metallica "late," a bit during the MOP album cycle, but mostly during the AJFA cycle. I pretty much love most of the run from Ride through (and including) the Black album. I bought Load and thought some of it was good. But I really lost interest after that. I bought DM and thought it was "good." And I like bits of Hardwired. With that in mind:
1. I never heard Saint Anger until a few years ago. I had lost interest by the time it came out, so I didn't gravitate toward it anyway. All the negative feedback about it certainly didn't help. But I was watching/listening to SKOM a few years ago in the background while doing something else. And then Saint Anger (entire album) came up and started playing afterward. I was busy, so wasn't focusing directly on it, and didn't realize what it was. But I found myself liking it. And when I finally went to go check and see what it was, I was pleasantly surprised. So all that to say: My exposure to St. Anger was WAY after the fact, and when I listened to it, I actually found myself liking it.
2. I watched that Salt Lake City show the other day, and it just reminded me that, in general, I find the latter half of the '90s Metallica to be just kinda icky. It's not just the music--I think some of it has actually aged decently, and I find myself more open to some of it than I was at the time. But just the whole attitude and atmosphere surrounding the band... It just isn't appealing to me at all. When I watch their early shows, they have that anger and fire. But it is focused and directed, and there also seems to be an underlying joy in what they are doing as musicians. In the late-'90s, the joy looks like it is missing, and the anger is just a dark cloud that feels like it is coming from places I don't really want to go as a fan. The recent shows I have seen are different. The anger and aggression of the early days is...somewhat back, but in more of a nostalgic sense. Yeah, maybe it's a bit contrived. But it's more, "this is our identity, and even though we aren't necessarily feeling what we did back then, we're now at a place where we understand that that's ok, and where we also understand where we were back then enough to tap into it and give the fans some of what they want." And the JOY seems to be at an all-time high.
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The drumming on St. Anger - to me - sounds like someone who is overjoyed that he still has a band. As well as letting out all the frustration of the last couple of years.
The drumming on Death Magnetic - by comparison - sounds tired and underwhelming. Like he keeps trying to play like it's 1988 still but he can't do it anymore.
Finally I think his playing on Hardwired To Self Destruct is back to his black album style of supporting the song and not getting in the way.
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St Anger is just a fascinating album to dissect because almost nothing really 'works'. That's not to say it's just all out terrible, I think there's redeeming riffs and melodies and ideas but the overall result is just such a mess. Like the songs themselves are very simple and have that 'intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-outro' type structure yet most of the songs are stretched to almost twice as long as the 'content' of the song justifies. And if you are fine with the repetitiveness of the album and get past that element of it, you have drums that sound like oil barrels and some nu metal influences (which seems very out of place now) and one of the better examples of the whole 'loudness war' I think.
Then again it's fascinating that Metallica almost managed to wipe away the stain left by St Anger as a 'meme'-album by making Lulu with Lou Reed which you could argue people hated even more.
I should give Reload some more spins because Load is up there with their best albums for me, though Reload hasn't quite hit the same way. Garage Inc has some good covers on it though and S&M is a good live album IMO. I think 90s Metallica gets a lot of unfair criticism, to me they had a pretty solid 90s all things considered. They broadened their sound and tried some new things. Compared to the 00s which gave us St Anger and Death Magnetic and the '10s which only gave us 1 album (2 if you count Lulu), I think their 90s is easily their 2nd best decade after the 80s.
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The thing I hate about Reload is when people say it was " all the leftovers " - when in reality - all 27 songs for Load and Reload were written and recorded at the same time...
The 14 songs on LOAD were the 14 most completed songs at the time the album was due. Then they went out on tour.
When they came back to finish off Reload - they just added more to it. Hence why it sounds a bit fuller than LOAD. All the drums on Reload were recorded at the same time as LOAD.
So yeah.
Also - I firmly believe that if the 13 songs on Reload were finished first and came out as LOAD - people would enjoy it way more.
Reload is heavier - faster and catchier than Load in my opinion. It's not a HUGE change from METALLICA.
Plus it has absolute gems like
Fuel
Memory Remains
Devils Dance
Unforgiven 2
Carpe Diem Baby
Where the Wild Things Are
Fixxxer
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Finally - I also believe that Reload's 'lows' are still better than Loads 'lows'. For Example : Slither is still better than Poor Twisted Me. Load is incredibly front loaded. The 2nd half has Wasting My hate
and Outlaw. Whilst Reload's second half has all the cool experimental weird stuff.
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Reload is absolutely terrible. Other than Fuel, there's not one song that would make any kind of Metallica playlist for me.
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I disagree entirely. I dont give a rats arse if its not And Justice For All.
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I disagree entirely. I dont give a rats arse if its not And Justice For All.
It's amazing how we (the collective "we", not me and you) have these conversations where two people have such diametrically opposed viewpoints on albums.
I do like Load well enough, and consider The Outlaw Torn one of their coolest songs.
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I don't really like Fuel or The Memory Remains which probably hurts my thoughts on Reload a bit but I remember liking the rest more. Fixxxer especially.
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Reload has potentially the best songs of the bunch (Unforgiven II which is surprisingly great considering how cheap and gimmicky the title seemed to be, Fixxxer, and yes, The Memory Remains, sue me), but has the biggest lows.
On Load they could have gotten rid of Cure, Poor Twisted Me and Ronnie, even removing two of the three would have made for a better and more concise album. On Reload I find Better than You, Slither, Bad Seed and Attitude absolutely horrible, and the only redeeming factor of Prince Charming is a ripoff of the chords of Creeping Death. And I happen by chance to like Carpe Diem Baby, but it's not that I'm gonna chase every fan who loathes that song to change their mind, I can see why they'd dislike it.
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Reload has potentially the best songs of the bunch (Unforgiven II which is surprisingly great considering how cheap and gimmicky the title seemed to be, Fixxxer, and yes, The Memory Remains, sue me), but has the biggest lows.
Never free
Never me
It's the Unforgiven III
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Totally lost occasion on Death Magnetic with that one :lol
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They can make up for it with The Un4gIVen. 😄😄
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What I've felt, what I've known
Made me unforgiven four
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Nah it'll be :
" Never free, never me
So I dub thee Un Four Given "
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At the official Metallica poll, they've got going on fb & Instagram, NEM beat Harvester and Fade beat Creep.
I don't understand the world..
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At the official Metallica poll, they've got going on fb & Instagram, NEM beat Harvester and Fade beat Creep.
I don't understand the world..
You don’t understand why two ballads, specifically concocted to be likeable by the largest % of people possible beat out a couple of crusty old thrash songs? :angel:
All kidding aside, I never much cared for Harvester, it’s long and boring (and this is coming from a DT fan :P). I’d put it towards the bottom of AJFA.
And as much as I love Creeping Death; Fade to Black just might be the all around greatest song ‘tallica ever wrote.
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I have generally been skipping Harvester since 1988.
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Harvester is awesome. Ya’ll nuts.
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At the official Metallica poll, they've got going on fb & Instagram, NEM beat Harvester and Fade beat Creep.
I don't understand the world..
You don’t understand why two ballads, specifically concocted to be likeable by the largest % of people possible beat out a couple of crusty old thrash songs? :angel:
But Creeping Death is one of the most famous Metallica songs! I'm not surprised that the universally known Nothing Else Matters wins over a song from a complex album, but I thought Creeping Death could resist against Fade to Black. But then again, FtB is an awesome ballad.
Who cares, it's only our Metallica League currently running in the Polls section that matters ;D
For anybody who doesn't take part, we have, after 24 full rounds and the 25th and final going on:
- Creeping Death in the lead with a clean score (24-0), shared with Blackened, Master and One
- Fade to Black at the 6th place (22-1-1), shared with Sanitarium and Disposable Heroes
- Harvester of Sorrow at the 16th place (20-4), shared with Enter Sandman and Wherever I May Roam
- Nothing Else Matters at the 35th place (16-7-1), shared with Eye of the Beholder and The Thing that Shoud Not Be
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Harvester is awesome. Ya’ll nuts.
One of my favorites.
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Harvester of Sorrow is a badass song title and a great song. One of the best on AJFA.
Nothing Else Matters to me is like Run to the Hills where I only think casual fans would rank it high. Anyone who is into the band and has heard more than 5 songs most likely wont have it close to the top.
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Harvester of Sorrow is a badass song title and a great song. One of the best on AJFA.
Nothing Else Matters to me is like Run to the Hills where I only think casual fans would rank it high. Anyone who is into the band and has heard more than 5 songs most likely wont have it close to the top.
Indeed, but I would James' solo really high. That's just a beautiful thing.
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"Harvester of Sorrow"
Just makes me think of " Tractor of Torment " or " Plough of Pain " ;D ;D
Also - Lars has confirmed they have taken baby steps towards writing the new album by exchanging ideas over the internet. And are trying to figure out how to write songs online.
tbh that's good news - and i'd much rather they were thinking about another album - rather than planning 100 more dates.
If I was an Aussie - or whoever missed out on the Hardwired tour - I'd be able to wait another year or so if it meant we got a new album debuted live at the same time.
I'm still hoping for late 2021 ( if they manage to write the bulk of it online and just go to HQ as soon as they are able and hash it out. *** ) But Early 2022 is aceptable. That's still a little over 5 years
from Hardwired To Self Destruct. And No I don't think it will take 8 years again. They had like 3 or 4 side projects the last time and the album was not their focus. This time it is.
*** Once the actual writing for Hardwired was complete - the actual album took just over a year to actually record from start to finish. It's just that they take ages to write.
They're like U2 - they agonise over the lyrics and arrangements - but once they press record - they get it done fairly quickly.
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Harvester of Sorrow is a badass song title and a great song. One of the best on AJFA.
Nothing Else Matters to me is like Run to the Hills where I only think casual fans would rank it high. Anyone who is into the band and has heard more than 5 songs most likely wont have it close to the top.
Well - and I mean this sincerely, because I think it's probably most accurate - I must be a casual fan then, because I LOVE "Nothing Else Matters". I also don't get the sanctity that RTL and MOP get, though, so there's that. I think they are good records, but I think Metallica was getting progressively better on each album, and reached different pinnacles with AJFA and TBA. I think they were both achievements in their own right, and I find it fascinating that those are back-to-back in the catalogue when you consider what came before.
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Anybody watching this Buenos Aires show tonight?
Hetfield sounds decent. Lars sounds extra...energetic. He’s either feeding off the crowd or the coke was extra good in Argentina that night.
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It's like 2008, right?
Not their best era, if I remember correctly.
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Oh man, it's so nice to hear Fade to Black with James on a clean channel and not an acoustic guitar. I miss it so.
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Might be one of the best setlists I’ve ever seen from them. Lightning, Devil’s Dance, Bleeding Me and Justice?? Damn
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Controversial opinion: I have never been impressed with Metallica live. They always sound sloppy as hell. James is on point with the rhythm, but then you have Lars and Kirk. Rob isn't that audible so he gets a pass, but Lars' horrendous drumming... I know it's a dead horse, but for fucks sake. Not gonna fault James for his voice. Shit happens. Is it an experience thing? They aren't very good live, but it's the experience, man. She's obviously lip syncing, but who cares? They're putting on a great show! Ugh. Anyway, yeah, not a fan of Metallica live.
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Controversial opinion: I have never been impressed with Metallica live. They always sound sloppy as hell. James is on point with the rhythm, but then you have Lars and Kirk. Rob isn't that audible so he gets a pass, but Lars' horrendous drumming... I know it's a dead horse, but for fucks sake. Not gonna fault James for his voice. Shit happens. Is it an experience thing? They aren't very good live, but it's the experience, man. She's obviously lip syncing, but who cares? They're putting on a great show! Ugh. Anyway, yeah, not a fan of Metallica live.
Definitely controversial, as they're one of my top three live bands along with Halestorm and Sum 41.
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I'm not a musician, and in the excitement of the live show with the sound also being very loud and bombastic, I barely notice errors, and if they're actually being made.
I can obviously notice a singer's performance but for me if you don't screw it up to the point that it's obscenely clear that you made a mistake, you played good. I remember Mike Portnoy quipping somewhere "with age it's not that we make less mistakes, we learn to hide them better". If you make a mistake and - as I said, in the excitement of the show and with the sound being what it is - I don't notice, to me it's like you didn't make a mistake at all.
But I did notice some simpler patterns in the fast part of One though.
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For all the shit that Lars gets I think he’s fine. Yes his tempo is often all over the place but I rarely notice mistakes (in any drummers) in a live setting unless the whole song falls apart- I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if he misses a fill here, or if he simplifies things there.
Kirk on the other hand...
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For all the shit that Lars gets I think he’s fine. Yes his tempo is often all over the place but I rarely notice mistakes (in any drummers) in a live setting unless the whole song falls apart- I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if he misses a fill here, or if he simplifies things there.
Kirk on the other hand...
Lars doesn't miss fills. He refuses to play them. That's what pisses me off.
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It's very weird. I can't disagree with your complaints about Lars and Kirk. Though I don't hear a lack of Rob live. He sounds pretty well mixed.
That said, it's an odd balance. Metallica is one of my favorite bands. And, for reasons I can't quite explain, I can almost always watch any one of their (well recorded) live shows and get very into it, even if I've heard these songs a billion times. That definitely doesn't apply to most bands for me.
Lars has A LOT of room for improvement. He can actually play the fills he wrote and not skip them. He can stop overplaying terrible fills in the middle of the beat (One and Creeping Death immediately come to mind) and his timing could always be better. Same with Kirk's leads (his rhythm is fantastic and very underrated since he's keeping right up with Hef).
At the same time, if Metallica came out and played their songs very very close to the original recording, at original tempos and focused more on technical accuracy, I feel like I and many others would lose interest in them playing live, and likely not be able to explain why. Their energy and raw energy tends to need that human element of not being perfect and making mistakes to really translate.
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They can still play at a faster tempo and play close to the album. Alive in Athens is a good example of this. Brent doesn't play 100% to the albums, but he's pretty damn close. Lars always sounds like a beginner playing along to his favorite band. I prefer slightly faster playing live. It's more intense. Live in Ancient Kourion is boring as fuck. I'm not wanting Metallica to play to a click or album tempo. I just want them to play what they wrote.
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Part of me has come to love Lars' quirky live playing. Maybe it's the Metallica fanboy in me, but he has a style all of his own. And for what it's worth, while he still has his habits live (riding the china, hitting the crash on the two, fills that start and end in the middle of bars, snare rolls, etc.), his timing has gotten so much better since the Death Magnetic tour when he was at his worst. It feels like his quirks are truly a part of his style now instead of a acting as a cover for his sloppy playing. When I last saw Metallica at MetLife Stadium back in 2017, it was the best Lars had sounded since the Black Album tour.
Kirk's leads though...idk how he went from one of the greatest metal guitarists of all time to being the weakest link in the band...
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When I last saw Metallica at MetLife Stadium back in 2017, it was the best Lars had sounded since the Black Album tour.
I was also at that show, the first time I saw Metallica... but even my two friends noticed how often Lars timing was off. I can't compare to anything before that, but if you think that was the best he sounded, I don't want to know how he sounded on the Black Album tour.
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When I last saw Metallica at MetLife Stadium back in 2017, it was the best Lars had sounded since the Black Album tour.
I was also at that show, the first time I saw Metallica... but even my two friends noticed how often Lars timing was off. I can't compare to anything before that, but if you think that was the best he sounded, I don't want to know how he sounded on the Black Album tour.
Oh I more meant that he lost a step after that tour. Not that he was better than that tour now. MOP-TBA (and especially AJFA) were peak Lars.
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ah true, I just felt it was very noticeable that show a few times, but also I saw them again a year and a half later and he also was off a few times, and my friend also commented on it. So I know this wasn't just me. I overall don't care that much, I love live music with all its faults at times but was just never really a fan of Lars which sometimes I feel makes me biased against his performances.
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Kirk's leads though...idk how he went from one of the greatest metal guitarists of all time to being the weakest link in the band...
It’s probably obvious but as a guitarist I can tell you, it sounds like he just doesn’t practice all that much. You can tell which of those solos he’s committed to muscle memory and which solos he hasn’t. It’s become a bit of a meme in the guitar community but the guy just doesn’t do his homework. Bob Rock has gone on record saying Kirk constantly needed pushing. And we all know about the “missing cell phone” incident. It’s an intriguing contrast to James who seems to take the band (and his chops) extremely seriously. Kirk got the gig because he was a competent player but I think he’s KEPT the gig for his ability to stay out of Lars/James’ way more than anything.
It was interesting during the Buenos Aires show Hetfield’s guitar cut out during Creeping Death (I think) and you can hear Kirk half-assedly playing the rhythm and then he just stops playing completely as if he has no confidence.
I watched another clip of the Lang Lang Grammy rehearsal and Hetfield was correcting some Kirk’s rhythm parts for One...ONE...a song they’ve played at virtually every gig for the last 30 years.
At the end of the day I think he’s still passionate about being in the band and playing but I think he’s more interested in surfing and collecting horror memorabilia than he is practicing old Metallica tunes. He’s had some iconic solos over the years though, and you can’t take that away from him.
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Kirk's leads though...idk how he went from one of the greatest metal guitarists of all time to being the weakest link in the band...
It’s probably obvious but as a guitarist I can tell you, it sounds like he just doesn’t practice all that much. You can tell which of those solos he’s committed to muscle memory and which solos he hasn’t. It’s become a bit of a meme in the guitar community but the guy just doesn’t do his homework. Bob Rock has gone on record saying Kirk constantly needed pushing. And we all know about the “missing cell phone” incident. It’s an intriguing contrast to James who seems to take the band (and his chops) extremely seriously. Kirk got the gig because he was a competent player but I think he’s KEPT the gig for his ability to stay out of Lars/James’ way more than anything.
It was interesting during the Buenos Aires show Hetfield’s guitar cut out during Creeping Death (I think) and you can hear Kirk half-assedly playing the rhythm and then he just stops playing completely as if he has no confidence.
I watched another clip of the Lang Lang Grammy rehearsal and Hetfield was correcting some Kirk’s rhythm parts for One...ONE...a song they’ve played at virtually every gig for the last 30 years.
At the end of the day I think he’s still passionate about being in the band and playing but I think he’s more interested in surfing and collecting horror memorabilia than he is practicing old Metallica tunes. He’s had some iconic solos over the years though, and you can’t take that away from him.
He’s still one of my all time favorite guitarists (James is number two though just behind Petrucci for me). And he wrote the riff that launched them into superstardom so there’s also that.
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Kirk's leads though...idk how he went from one of the greatest metal guitarists of all time to being the weakest link in the band...
It’s probably obvious but as a guitarist I can tell you, it sounds like he just doesn’t practice all that much. You can tell which of those solos he’s committed to muscle memory and which solos he hasn’t. It’s become a bit of a meme in the guitar community but the guy just doesn’t do his homework. Bob Rock has gone on record saying Kirk constantly needed pushing. And we all know about the “missing cell phone” incident. It’s an intriguing contrast to James who seems to take the band (and his chops) extremely seriously. Kirk got the gig because he was a competent player but I think he’s KEPT the gig for his ability to stay out of Lars/James’ way more than anything.
It was interesting during the Buenos Aires show Hetfield’s guitar cut out during Creeping Death (I think) and you can hear Kirk half-assedly playing the rhythm and then he just stops playing completely as if he has no confidence.
I watched another clip of the Lang Lang Grammy rehearsal and Hetfield was correcting some Kirk’s rhythm parts for One...ONE...a song they’ve played at virtually every gig for the last 30 years.
At the end of the day I think he’s still passionate about being in the band and playing but I think he’s more interested in surfing and collecting horror memorabilia than he is practicing old Metallica tunes. He’s had some iconic solos over the years though, and you can’t take that away from him.
He’s still one of my all time favorite guitarists (James is number two though just behind Petrucci for me). And he wrote the riff that launched them into superstardom so there’s also that.
I agree with all of this. In more ways than one, he's an amazing guitar player with an iconic style of playing leads. Then there's the sloppy aspect as well. There's a lot of early era material where he just can't seem to remember the notes 100% and just half asses it. But then again it doesn't matter all that much because his playing oozes swagger.
My favorite solo of his has to be The Unforgiven.
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Another distinct possibility is that he is a burn-out.
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That said, it's an odd balance. Metallica is one of my favorite bands. And, for reasons I can't quite explain, I can almost always watch any one of their (well recorded) live shows and get very into it, even if I've heard these songs a billion times. That definitely doesn't apply to most bands for me.
I also have this experience. Even while not really being able to disagree with the criticisms of Lars and Kirk.
I've always sort of chalked it up to Hetfield's dynamism and charisma as a frontman.
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Another distinct possibility is that he is a burn-out.
Possibly. Interestingly, his best playing was during the AJFA tour when he was apparently in the throes of a nasty cocaine addiction.
I will say after watching the Chicago ‘83 show, his playing is really tasty, even in the early days. He’s not the writer that Mustaine is but his lead playing has always been MILES better than Dave’s. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.
For all his faults, Kirk is a great guitarist. He can play 2 or 3 notes (wah or no wah) and you can instantly recognize that it’s him playing, which in my opinion is one of the few true marks of a great player.
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For all the shit that Lars gets I think he’s fine. Yes his tempo is often all over the place but I rarely notice mistakes (in any drummers) in a live setting unless the whole song falls apart- I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if he misses a fill here, or if he simplifies things there.
Kirk on the other hand...
Lars doesn't miss fills. He refuses to play them. That's what pisses me off.
That doesn't bother me i the slightest. Seek and Destroy has Literally been played over a thousand times. Playing every song exactly like the CD must get boring after #456
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For all the shit that Lars gets I think he’s fine. Yes his tempo is often all over the place but I rarely notice mistakes (in any drummers) in a live setting unless the whole song falls apart- I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if he misses a fill here, or if he simplifies things there.
Kirk on the other hand...
Lars doesn't miss fills. He refuses to play them. That's what pisses me off.
That doesn't bother me i the slightest. Seek and Destroy has Literally been played over a thousand times. Playing every song exactly like the CD must get boring after #456
I’m glad every band doesn’t have this mentality and just play random shit during your favorite songs.
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I’m glad every band doesn’t have this mentality and just play random shit during your favorite songs.
You must not have been a Led Zeppelin fan. I don't think they ever played the same song twice.
I'm the complete opposite. Maybe because I cut my musical teeth on bands who made a live experience unique each night. This is the reason I won't go to see DT live anymore. You're getting the exact same songs played to a click track, but with screechy vocals instead...yeah, I'd rather listen to the studio recording. When MM joined the band I had high hopes too. I mean, they tested him for improvisation during the audition. Never to be seen again.
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I’m glad every band doesn’t have this mentality and just play random shit during your favorite songs.
Well that's one of the benefits of being a drummer - they have that freedom to improvise and don't have to always stick to what was tracked on the albums. The other instruments obviously don't have that freedom. While I certainly don't advocate for 'just playing random shit' and Lars is definitely guilty of doing that over the years, I don't blame drummers one bit for throwing in different fills during live performances, just to break up some of that monotony that surely kicks in after a while. As long as it's tastefully done and doesn't derail the song, what's wrong with some variation and improvisation? Sure there's well-known fills that have to be reproduced each time (i.e. Peart's Tom Sawyer fills - you know the part I'm talking about), but I'd be disappointed to hear a live exact reproduction for a part like the end of DT's Finally Free.
Yes Lars has me scratching my head at times with some of the rhythms he plays live during the verses of songs (i.e. Creeping Death, MoP) and simplifies a lot of his older fills, so his criticism is fair if this conversation is limited just to him. I just don't agree with the 'stick to what you tracked on the album' thought process as a whole for all drummers.
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I’m glad every band doesn’t have this mentality and just play random shit during your favorite songs.
I'm the complete opposite. Maybe because I cut my musical teeth on bands who made a live experience unique each night. This is the reason I won't go to see DT live anymore. You're getting the exact same songs played to a click track, but with screechy vocals instead...yeah, I'd rather listen to the studio recording.
Although I won't go so far as to not see them live anymore, I still agree with the point that seeing specific shows are no longer unique experiences. Between that and the static setlists, I'm fine with just catching one show per tour, in comparison to the past when I'd see 6 or more shows on each tour. Unfortunately, they are more focused in putting on a show than a performance.
When MM joined the band I had high hopes too. I mean, they tested him for improvisation during the audition. Never to be seen again.
I would love to see them bring out some room for improvisation - especially a stand alone improv like they occasionally did in the past. And to a degree they did do some improvising in 2012, 2014 and 2017 (at the end of Metropolis, the beginning of ToT at later shows and the beginning of HK, respectively), but it wasn't like in the past while MP was still in the band. That being said, I would imagine that at least to some degree, the improvising was done to see how well each candidate would gel musically with the band, and perhaps in coming up with ideas while in the songwriting stage. Seeing the direction that the band has moved in since MP's departure, I don't think they ever intended to have improvisation to the same extent as while MP was in the band.
I don't blame drummers one bit for throwing in different fills during live performances, just to break up some of that monotony that surely kicks in after a while. As long as it's tastefully done and doesn't derail the song, what's wrong with some variation and improvisation? Sure there's well-known fills that have to be reproduced each time (i.e. Peart's Tom Sawyer fills - you know the part I'm talking about), but I'd be disappointed to hear a live exact reproduction for a part like the end of DT's Finally Free.
And as I mentioned in the MP thread, that's exactly what MP does when performing - he never sticks to exactly the same thing as what is on the album. One of the big reasons why is to keep it interesting for himself.
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For all the shit that Lars gets I think he’s fine. Yes his tempo is often all over the place but I rarely notice mistakes (in any drummers) in a live setting unless the whole song falls apart- I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if he misses a fill here, or if he simplifies things there.
Kirk on the other hand...
Lars doesn't miss fills. He refuses to play them. That's what pisses me off.
That doesn't bother me i the slightest. Seek and Destroy has Literally been played over a thousand times. Playing every song exactly like the CD must get boring after #456
Lars has some iconic fills on Justice. Skipping over them is just kinda rude. Maybe if he practiced, he wouldnt have to skip over them. Blackened and Frayed have two of the coolest fills I've ever heard, and there is just cool shit sprinkled all throughout that album. What would be boring to me is being the drummer for AC/DC. I might be compelled to play random shit then.
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Blackened and Frayed have two of the coolest fills I've ever heard...
For Blackened the fill leading into the odd timing section before the solo...and for Frayed the drum fill before THAT riff?
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Blackened and Frayed have two of the coolest fills I've ever heard...
For Blackened the fill leading into the odd timing section before the solo...and for Frayed the drum fill before THAT riff?
Yep. "See our mother..." and the 4 minute mark.
I also like the progressing fills in Shortest Straw, which he of course doesn't play live.
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Blackened and Frayed have two of the coolest fills I've ever heard...
For Blackened the fill leading into the odd timing section before the solo...and for Frayed the drum fill before THAT riff?
Yep. "See our mother..." and the 4 minute mark.
I also like the progressing fills in Shortest Straw, which he of course doesn't play live.
Yup. They’re not that complicated either. Lazy bastard. How is simplifying everything equal to changing things up for variety?
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For all the shit that Lars gets I think he’s fine. Yes his tempo is often all over the place but I rarely notice mistakes (in any drummers) in a live setting unless the whole song falls apart- I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if he misses a fill here, or if he simplifies things there.
Kirk on the other hand...
Lars doesn't miss fills. He refuses to play them. That's what pisses me off.
That doesn't bother me i the slightest. Seek and Destroy has Literally been played over a thousand times. Playing every song exactly like the CD must get boring after #456
Also doesn’t bother me. Some of his drumming is a bit questionable but overall I don’t really care that he switches things up. This is coming from a non-drummer though. I think if I were a drumming and paid super close attention to the exact configuration of each fill it would bother me more.
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He just does jarring, out of place fills. I don't really care about following the album's fills exactly (though he should make more of an effort to hit at least some of them) but he'll take a soft mellow part like The Unforgiven's chorus and just fill like he's Animal on the Muppets.
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Kirk's leads though...idk how he went from one of the greatest metal guitarists of all time to being the weakest link in the band...
It’s probably obvious but as a guitarist I can tell you, it sounds like he just doesn’t practice all that much. You can tell which of those solos he’s committed to muscle memory and which solos he hasn’t. It’s become a bit of a meme in the guitar community but the guy just doesn’t do his homework. Bob Rock has gone on record saying Kirk constantly needed pushing. And we all know about the “missing cell phone” incident. It’s an intriguing contrast to James who seems to take the band (and his chops) extremely seriously. Kirk got the gig because he was a competent player but I think he’s KEPT the gig for his ability to stay out of Lars/James’ way more than anything.
I went down the rabbit hole of watching Hetfield videos a while back and to me he is Metallica, especially now. He seems dedicated to the band and his chops. Hell I didn't know until recently that he is a pretty damn good drummer.
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Live in Bogotà 1999 is airing, just caught it at Four Horsemen.
Pretty tight :metal
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Ahhh yes- 1999 was a bad, confused time for metal.
Really, 99-2009 was a lonely decade to be a metal fan.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjPLOtRyaCI
This is not an official video from the Metallimondays series, but it starts with something I always wanted to see and that I'd like to see for all my favorite bands: a full and uninterrupted following of the band as they prepare to go on stage.
It's weird to see them chilling out and being completely calm about it. I know, I know - they've been doing it for a long time, they do it tour after tour, show after show, they know all the cues and the exact time they have between The Ecstasy of Gold and, in this case, the pre-taped intro of Hardwired, but if I were in their shoes, I don't know how many tours and how many concerts it would take me to scroll of the anxiety of going late on stage (or to not mind the roar from the crowd when the lights go down and being overwhelmed by it).
EDIT: found another one that stays with them through all the intro, this time it's James (and Lars behind) being followed up until the stage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoU9xcniQ04
James seems the one to be mostly into The Ecstasy of Gold, two random videos out of two where he hums along to the song :D
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Thanks for linking those. Think I was more nervous watching them than the band appeared to be about playing!
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Those were really cool, the first clip especially. Though it always bugged me on the Fan Request tour that the fans picked the shit they always play anyway except for a few smart cities that chose obscure songs.
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I think the main issue with the Fan Request tour was that the majority of those were festivals with all kinds of different bands on the line-up. Therefore, the majority of the people making their picks are casual listeners that will most likely pick the songs they recognize. I mean I would think it would be a different story if they did it again, but do it in an arena setting in the states or in Europe rather than outdoor festivals or stadiums. Hard to tell though.
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Probably the easiest way to remedy that is to group the songs and have the fans pick X number of songs from each group. Perhaps a "hits" group, an "album cuts" group and an "obscurities" group. That way, you can be sure that both the diehard and the casual listener will have something to look forward to.
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In slight defense of the fans, Metallica have a varied enough setlist that even your favorite song is not 100% guaranteed to make it in the set. I've noticed one of the requests for Bogotà was Ride the Lightning - hardly a "deep cut", and yet in the last tour they rarely played it, my cousin was so lucky to hear her favorite song at her first Metallica show last year, with me, because it was one of the less played songs on the tour, and if given the chance, I'm sure she'd have voted for it.
Also, a Metallica concert is an event, it costs a lot and they have a more erratic touring schedule than Iron Maiden, whom you know you're gonna see every other year at worst. I don't begrudge people having one chance at seeing Metallica and vote for their favorite song rather than hoping to hear Jump in the Fire or Thorn Within.
BTW, Scotty's suggestion is great!
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So it looks like they're writing / demoing whilst seperated.
Lars bought attention to the microphones on his drums with a cheeky "..what could THAT mean? " and Rob has hinted at recording new demoes.
They seem to be in new album mode rather than live mode which is great. Hopefully they can demo 14 or so songs whilst in Quarantine
then when they are able to get together - they can hash out the album really quick in HQ and still have it out for Early 2022 at the latest.
I still think if they can get together pretty soon at HQ - then late 2021 is still not out of the question.
And I really hope that Greg Fidelman can produce again since HTSD sounded fantastic.
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So it looks like they're writing / demoing whilst seperated.
Lars bought attention to the microphones on his drums with a cheeky "..what could THAT mean? " and Rob has hinted at recording new demoes.
They seem to be in new album mode rather than live mode which is great. Hopefully they can demo 14 or so songs whilst in Quarantine
then when they are able to get together - they can hash out the album really quick in HQ and still have it out for Early 2022 at the latest.
I still think if they can get together pretty soon at HQ - then late 2021 is still not out of the question.
And I really hope that Greg Fidelman can produce again since HTSD sounded fantastic.
Yeah, I've seen wellsprings of this as well. I'm really pumped for a follow up of Hardwired.
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I really appreciate new music. My biggest gripe over Metallica has been their lack of new material.
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I really appreciate new music. My biggest gripe over Metallica has been their lack of new material.
Yeah I keep listening to Hardwired...To Self Destruct and wishing they had another album with the same style and production. And they don't really.
The production on HTSD is really stellar. I remember when they finally released the song " Hardwired " as a teaser for the album.
The thing I was most excited about was how great it sounded after two albums with terrible production.
The next one needs to sound as good.
However - it's mainly Rick Rubin's fault that Death Magnetic sounded so awful and Metallica won't work with him again. Greg Fidelman is their new Bob Rock.
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Also over the years i've learned just how much Rob and Lars can talk about a new album without actually saying anything. It gets a bit annoying - but not as annoying as TOOL - who
deliberately make up shit or troll their own fans. E.g. " The albums finished - we just need to master it "..." The whole studio burned down and we started from scratch "...
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Man, I actually need to give Hardwired... a fair listen some time. I think I passed on it when it first came out purely on the grounds of how much I cringed at the song title 'ManUNkind'... :lol
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Imagine if Hardwired followed the template of their 80s albums and came out in 1991 like this :
1. Hardwired
2. Atlas Rise!
3. Now That We're Dead
4. Moth Into Flame
5. Dream No More
6. Halo On Fire
7. Confusion
8. Spit Out The Bone
I think it would have been as highly regarded as " the first 4 " and would have been a good transition to the 'Black' album.
I once listened to And Justice For All in full and then The Black Album immediately after.
Not only is the obvious improvement in production glaringly obvious - but songs like Of Wolf and Man - or Holier Than Thou - wouldn't have sounded out of place on AJFA.
I think the real reason people prefer AJFA to 'Metallica' is that there's no *long* songs.
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I also wonder how LOAD would have been received if they'd kept their Black Album image...
(https://i.imgur.com/XWhtuuE.jpg)
As it seems ( not all ) a lot of the criticism was the short hair and complete change of image.
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K-Boy, there's a lot to chew on in those posts.
Let me offer you some "in real time" observations from a huge (at the time) Metallica fan.
I got into Metallica when Kill 'Em All came out. It remains my favorite Metallica album and one of my favorite, and most important albums.
I consider Justice amazing and even saw that tour 6 times.
So...
The advanced single was Enter Sandman. For me, it was already a huge departure from what they were doing. There was an aggressiveness that was absent.
I remember buying the album in New Jersey on the day it was released and I listened to it all the way home to Massachusetts. I was shocked at how different it was. It simply lacked the aggression of the previous albums. I don't know how else to say it. I don't really think song length had all that much to do with it.
Yes, there's almost a 2 minute difference on average per song, but IMO, it's weighted by the two longest songs on AJFA (AJFA and TLITD), which I consider the two weakest. And I'm not a fan of Harvester, which is the 2nd shortest.
To me, it all came down to style.
Then there's a FIVE YEAR wait until Load. So I have to sit with TBA, my least favorite, for five years. I was quite excited when Load came out. But it was definitely continuing the path they set out on with TBA. I liked not quite half of Load, but what I like, I really like.
It's the music. Not the haircuts, at least for me.
I can see you positioning Hardwired between AJFA and TBA. But see, I take Death Magnetic all day over Hardwired. There's filler on both for sure, but they each have a different style. DM is more in line with AJFA, and Hardwired is more in line with TBA.
TBA has aged amazingly. I consider TBA a GREAT album. GREAT! I also think Hardwired is excellent as well.
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About Load, I think it was the double punch of the change in music AND image. That was a big combination that turned off fans, and if they were not mixed together for Load maybe the initial reputation of that album would have not suffered that much.
About the trimmed Hardwired, I'd totally place Here Comes Revenge in place of Confusion.
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Yeah, I suppose the image reinforces the musical change in direction, sure.
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I guess I'm lucky in the sense that my musical coming of age was past the point when a lot of my favorite bands decided to change (1994). I can't imagine all of a sudden disliking Rush because they included synths because to me, all of that stuff was just part of their sound when I got into them. I got into Metallica after seeing their Woodstock '94 performance and The Black Album was my first album experience of theirs. Once I worked my way back, it all just sounded like Metallica...I didn't give any shits about the change of sound because I wasn't there to experience it. Once Load came out, I immediately loved it because it was just more Metallica to listen to.
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Yeah, that's totally cool.
Rush, oh boy, that's a whole 'nuther discussion.
Sometimes when a band you really like changes direction, and it's jarring, it can throw you for a loop. When you view a band's discography "after the fact", it's easy to see how the POV definitely changes how you feel about certain albums and eras.
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I got into Metallica properly with Reload so it was actually harder for me going back to the first four albums.
Also I didn't experience the change in image and style from Justice to Metallica to Load.
My Metallica era was Reload / Cunning Stunts / S&M era. So When I got around to listening to the first four - they were more difficult for me to appreciate because of the
brittle sound of the 80s albums. AJFA especially. The new Blackened Remaster helped somewhat but it's still not a very pleasant album on the ears.
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However I do think Master is their #1 album by a LONG way and St Anger is their least best ( and not just in a hurr hurr trash can hurr hurr way - I genuinely love that album ).
Death Magnetic was good at the time - but it's a really hard listen on the ears. The arrangements arent the best cause they had a " 1 riff from each member " rule. And Lars is trying to play like it's still
1988 - but he doesn't have the chops anymore.
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Plus I could bang on about how No - Bob did not 'ruin' Metallica and No - Reload was NOT " all the leftovers from Load ". :-)
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I was introduced to foreign, rock / heavy music in 1994 with Bon Jovi and Guns n' Roses, and then became a metalhead in 1995 with Iron Maiden and Metallica.
I was the subject of experiments of a classmate :biggrin:, which means that he created for me custom-made cassette compilations, so I don't have any "first album" of any of my early bands - it was all custom-made "greatest hits" made by a classmate.
So I was barely forming my musical tastes, with songs from all eras of Metallica and other bands, when Load came out. I totally didn't approach it with musical maturity so to speak, it's not that I hated it or anything, but Load and Reload were not the best "new album(s) once a fan" to start with.
Looking back I can appreciate Load for what it is, which is a quite fine, original and diverse album, which could have done with 2-3 songs cut to make it tighter and stronger. Reload is still kinda meh :D but seriously, I could sit through the entire Load, lesser tracks included, but please don't make me listen ever again to Bad Seed or Slither.
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I can never decide between Load and Reload - the first half of Load is fantastic. And Reload starts / ends well.
Where The Wild Things Are, Carpe Diem Baby, Prince Charming** and Fixxxer are all great.
Finally - I think that Reload's weakest songs are still better than Load's weakest songs.
I'd rather listen to Bad Seed or Better Than You over Cure, Ronnie or Poor Twisted Me.
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** Seriously - put on Prince Charming - as loud as you can - forget that its from "reload lol" and it's a fantastic hard rock song.
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Of course it's "fantastic", the chorus steals Creeping Death's one!
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Next you'll be telling me that Every song is played in E !
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Next you'll be telling me that Every song is played in E !
If we're talking Reload, the all songs are in E, as in Enough already.
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:loser:
Hot Take - Justice is a worse album.
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Let me offer you some "in real time" observations from a huge (at the time) Metallica fan.
. . .
The advanced single was Enter Sandman. For me, it was already a huge departure from what they were doing. There was an aggressiveness that was absent.
I remember buying the album in New Jersey on the day it was released and I listened to it all the way home to Massachusetts. I was shocked at how different it was. It simply lacked the aggression of the previous albums. I don't know how else to say it. I don't really think song length had all that much to do with it.
Yes, there's almost a 2 minute difference on average per song, but IMO, it's weighted by the two longest songs on AJFA (AJFA and TLITD), which I consider the two weakest. And I'm not a fan of Harvester, which is the 2nd shortest.
To me, it all came down to style.
I have a similar perspective (although I didn't get into Metallica until shortly before MOP was released). Sandman was just...I don't know...soft. It was Metallica's version of paint-by-numbers. Aside from the total lack of aggression, it felt dumbed-down for the masses. And then the second "single," Sad But True, was much the same and was plodding on top of it. The whole album lacked the fast, intricate picking that was Hetfield's trademark, and Bob Rock completely neutered Hetfield's singing. And there was none of the odd time stuff that was prominent on MOP and AJFA.
The Black Album also hit at a bad time for metal. Queensryche had made a similarly, overly-produced (and, IMO, overrated) album. Judas Priest was a year removed from one of it's best albums ever, but Rob Halford left not long afterwards. Iron Maiden had released its worst album to date and, while the follow up was better, they seemed to have lost it. And then Bruce Dickinson left. Grunge was on the rise, and even the crappy glam metal of the late 80s was dying. Pantera was on the rise, but I didn't like anything I heard and couldn't get past the stupidity of Darrell Abbott's stage name. Only Fates Warning and, by the second half of 1992, Dream Theater saved the decade.
By the time Load came around, I had very little hope for Metallica, and I was right. I listed to the album a few times and actually returned it to the store where I had bought it.
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About Load, I think it was the double punch of the change in music AND image.
This. I remember when Until It Sleeps first premiered, the local radio stations literally played it every hour on the hour for at least a couple days. We were soooo excited to finally hear some new Metallica because it had been 4-5 years since the black album. At the time, there was no artwork, no revised logo, no photos of the band with haircuts and makeup. But when I heard UIS, they lost me as a fan. It was at that moment that they lost the plot. So it was the music first and foremost for me. But the change in image and everything else certainly didn't help matters.
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Load/Reload have definitely benefitted with time.
In the mid 90s the albums seemed like soft kowtowing to mainstream music, but viewed in the context of today’s barren, vapid landscape of top 40, Load and Reload are absolute masterpieces.
Nostalgia plays a big factor as well for the 90s kids; Load/Reload instantly transports you back to a time when contemporary rock/metal was in its final days of having some cultural relevance. Those albums are fun, and even a bit endearing.
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I gave The Black Album a listen since it's been a long long time since I heard it in its entirety. I never had a problem with this album. I think it's a good album. That being said, listening to it with critical ears, I've come to the opinion that while it's a good album, I perfectly understand the mindset of the fans when it was released and this album while good is also kinda... Not good. For Metallica, at least. It's like Risk by Megadeth. I like most of that album. It's a huge WHAT THE FUCK, but it has some great songs. But, it's not really a Megadeth album.
TBA has a southern flare about it, and James really brings the cheese with his YEAHs. It also sounds like they got a different drummer. I stopped liking Enter Sandman years ago, and would be perfectly fine never hearing it again, but it seems like it got worse than I remember. Does it make sense to say the song isn't actually bad, but every time it comes on I change the station? Same with The Unforgiven. All the singles. But just like Escape, I think Don't Tread on Me is a great song. It's cheesy, but awesome. Same with Of Wolf and Man. There are great songs on here, but it's a very tired album, and coming after Justice, I can understand how many fans felt betrayed.
I'll give it a 6 out of 10.
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When the Justice remaster came out - I listened to the whole album in full.
Then I put on Sad But True on immediately after.
The difference was amazing. All of Justice sounds so thin and brittle - and Sad But True by comparison sounded COLOSSAL. So deep and warm.
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I became a fan in 2000-2001, so I was able to appreciate their discography without the social context in which the albums were released. I discovered their music alll at once without any particular order, so I became huge fan of Enter Sandman, Fade to Black, Unforgiven, Sad but true, Master of Puppets, The thing that Should not be, Fuel, Until it Sleeps and Whiskey in the Jar and some others, all at the same time.
So, for me, I don't have any particular issue with any of their albums. Of course, now after many many years, I like some albums more than others, my favorite are
1. AJFA
2. RTL
3. MOP / TBA
4. Load
Regarding TBA, since many years ago, I cannot listen to Enter Sandman, Sad but True, Nothing else matters on my own. But the rest of the album is great IMO, specially Don't tread on me, Struggle within, God that failed, My friend of misery & Through the never.
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About Load, I think it was the double punch of the change in music AND image. That was a big combination that turned off fans, and if they were not mixed together for Load maybe the initial reputation of that album would have not suffered that much.
About the trimmed Hardwired, I'd totally place Here Comes Revenge in place of Confusion.
I agree. Or with Now That We're Dead. I just don't like the main riff of that song, very sub par for James imho.
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:loser:
Hot Take - Justice is a worse album.
Friendship Over
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Another HOT TAKE
Orion is clearly the best Instrumental whilst To Live Is To Die is by far the worst.
Orion is almost perfectly arranged and produced - whilst TLITD just sounds like 2 people jamming in a garage.
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Another HOT TAKE
Orion is clearly the best Instrumental whilst To Live Is To Die is by far the worst.
Orion is almost perfectly arranged and produced - whilst TLITD just sounds like 2 people jamming in a garage.
How is that a hot take? A hot take would be saying the opposite.
Who holds TLITD in higher regard than Orion?
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The kind of people that prefer And Justice For All to Master of Puppets ?
Just me of course - but - I can't see how AJFA is an improvement on Master of Puppets in any way.
I think MOP is a near flawless album. All the songs are arranged perfectly. It has warmth and melody and harmony.
Justice to me sounds thin and brittle - James grunts more than sings. Songs are long for the sake of it. Etc..
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Also if you like how AJFA sounds then great. But saying "it doesn't need bass" is just weird. If the album came out in 1988 and it had the same production as Master of Puppets
I highly doubt people would be saying " Yeah its good - but what it really needs is zero bass ".
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I think if I could only pick one album to listen to for the rest of my life, I'm probably leaning towards Justice, but that's in spite of TLITD, which I've been skipping since 1988.
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Who holds TLITD in higher regard than Orion?
Crazy people.
The Call of Ktulu is better than both anyway (although Orion is awfully close).
-
The middle section of TLITD is one of the best sections of music Metallica's released.
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Who holds TLITD in higher regard than Orion?
Crazy people.
The Call of Ktulu is better than both anyway (although Orion is awfully close).
This is accurate....
1. Suicide & Redemption
2. The Call of Ktulu
3. Orion
4. TLITD
:-* :chill
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The middle section of TLITD is one of the best sections of music Metallica's released.
I think Orion is better overall, but the middle section of TLITD is probably the best musical segment they ever did.
-
I think Orion is the best musical segment they ever did :P
Best instrumental and best song of theirs overall.
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1) Call of Ktulu (S&M)
2) Orion
3) Call of Ktulu (album)
4) To Live is to Die
5) The one from DM
But yes. The middle section of TLITD is among their best.
-
1) Call of Ktulu (S&M)
2) Orion
3) Call of Ktulu (album)
4) To Live is to Die
5) The one from DM
But yes. The middle section of TLITD is among their best.
1. Orion (Master Of Puppets) / Orion (Thru The Never Re-Recording **)
2. Ktulu
3. Suicide & Redemption ( at least it doesn't sound like 2 people writing a song on the spot onto a ghetto blaster in the garage...)
4. To Live is To Die
** https://open.spotify.com/track/00cxd8JLO6JKUei70H4BY4?si=JS4YVTv5QW25omHyWS09xQ :D
Says it's live but it's clearly recorded in a studio. Live as a band maybe.
---
Also - inb4 LOL LARS !! Yeah and Kirks live solos are sloppy as fuck - Rob and Kirk cant do backing vocals and James voice isnt what it used to be. Give it a rest :)
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I think if I could only pick one album to listen to for the rest of my life, I'm probably leaning towards Justice, but that's in spite of TLITD, which I've been skipping since 1988.
Mine is either Master or Hardwired since Master is their best album but Hardwired is not only their best album since the self-titled but it damn near 90 minutes of music.
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1. Orion (Master Of Puppets) / Orion (Thru The Never Re-Recording **)
2. Ktulu
3. Suicide & Redemption ( at least it doesn't sound like 2 people writing a song on the spot onto a ghetto blaster in the garage...)
4. To Live is To Die
** https://open.spotify.com/track/00cxd8JLO6JKUei70H4BY4?si=JS4YVTv5QW25omHyWS09xQ :D
Says it's live but it's clearly recorded in a studio. Live as a band maybe.
Apparently recorded at soundcheck.
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The other thing that grinds my gears ( idea for thread?!?! ) is when people worship Cliff Burton as if he was the absolute greatest musician of all time. Basically Jesus on Bass and nobody will ever
be better than him at bass ever.
I'd love to visit an alternate universe where Cliff just decided to quit Metallica in 1986 and hadn't died - to see how highly regarded he still is in 2020A.
Something about musicians who die gives them GOD status for some reason. Cliff couldn't do what Les Claypool or Victor Wooten do. Flea from RHCP is probably better as well.
*Not saying he couldn't play obviously - but it's odd how people deify certain musicians and make out no other musician could ever be better - when that's clearly not true*
:)
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Something about musicians who die gives them GOD status for some reason.
Of course. What's more iconic, grunge god Kurt Cobain died tragically at 27 or middle aged, fat Kurt Cobain whose fame is eclipsed by the drummer once Nirvana had inevitably split up?
Had Elvis Presley died at 27, who could have imagined that he would become a fat guy that would have died on the toilet?
Both Freddie Mercury and David Bowie died, but one not even 50 of Aids, the other nearly 70, who's more legendary? Freddie of course.
If you die you can't grow old or make mistakes. You're remembered only for your good things, like Randy Rhoads - it's easier to become iconic when you've done just two legendary albums. And just like with Cliff, this is not a diss at their abilities, an early death makes things a bit more difficult to put into perspective.
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We'll never know obviously but what if Cliff just quit Metallica and became a recluse in 1986 instead ?
I do wonder if he'd have the same status amongst Metallica fans.
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Well, we know at least of one ex reclused band member that was still revered for years, so..... :D
Alive but retired, Cliff would still be the bassist of Kill / Ride / Master with his name nowhere near the Loads or St. Anger.
Hey, Kevin Moore did basically that, and people are still revering him without the need for him to die.
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The other thing that grinds my gears ( idea for thread?!?! ) is when people worship Cliff Burton as if he was the absolute greatest musician of all time. Basically Jesus on Bass and nobody will ever
be better than him at bass ever.
I'd love to visit an alternate universe where Cliff just decided to quit Metallica in 1986 and hadn't died - to see how highly regarded he still is in 2020A.
Something about musicians who die gives them GOD status for some reason. Cliff couldn't do what Les Claypool or Victor Wooten do. Flea from RHCP is probably better as well.
*Not saying he couldn't play obviously - but it's odd how people deify certain musicians and make out no other musician could ever be better - when that's clearly not true*
:)
While I agree tragic death often blows things out of perspective for musicians (and sometimes it cynically becomes a gret involuntary career move as far as rep is concerned), I feel you're focusing a bit too much on technical proficiency alone rather than Cliff's gifts as sophisticated musician. Just think about all the amazing harmonic solutions and transitions (Fade to Black's intro-to-verse comes to mind as sudden example, but there are plenty) that the band's songwriting has lost forever.
He's never been the best ever, he may very well be one of the most influential though.
-
We'll never know obviously but what if Cliff just quit Metallica and became a recluse in 1986 instead ?
I do wonder if he'd have the same status amongst Metallica fans.
Of course he would. Vito Brata. Guy wants nothing to do with (professional) music, and Eddie Trunk gets asked about him almost monthly (Eddie Trunk is a NY/NJ DJ that has a weekly show on Sirius Satellite Radio, and his show is three or four hours where he takes calls from listeners in between music and interviews).
I don't quite share all the reverence for Cliff (honestly, don't share the reverence for RTL or MOP, either, so there's that) but I will say that chemistry matters in a band. I was lucky enough to see Black Sabbath live on two occasions, in the same venue (same opening acts, as well!) about a year apart, and one show was WITH Geezer Butler, and one was without, and it was like night and day. Two different bands, almost, even though the Tony Iommi/Tony Martin axis was the same. Better or worse, we can debate until the cows come home, but DT is DIFFERENT without Kevin Moore. Cheap Trick was DIFFERENT without Tom Petersson. If your focus is Mike Portnoy or Robin Zander, probably not that different, but if your focus was the melody lines/lyrics (DT) or the rhythm section (CT) then maybe so.
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Someone dying or a a band disbanding at their peak usually comes with that elevated god-tier status and "what if?" speculations. It's not just Cliff. With that said he was definitely great and I would be curious to see how their career would have continued had he lived.
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Another HOT TAKE
Orion is clearly the best Instrumental whilst To Live Is To Die is by far the worst.
Orion is almost perfectly arranged and produced - whilst TLITD just sounds like 2 people jamming in a garage.
How is that a hot take? A hot take would be saying the opposite.
Who holds TLITD in higher regard than Orion?
:lol
For me, Ktulu is better than Orion, but Orion is great. Then Anesthesia and To Live Is to Die and Suicide and Redemption.
The other thing that grinds my gears ( idea for thread?!?! ) is when people worship Cliff Burton as if he was the absolute greatest musician of all time. Basically Jesus on Bass and nobody will ever
be better than him at bass ever.
I'd love to visit an alternate universe where Cliff just decided to quit Metallica in 1986 and hadn't died - to see how highly regarded he still is in 2020A.
Something about musicians who die gives them GOD status for some reason. Cliff couldn't do what Les Claypool or Victor Wooten do. Flea from RHCP is probably better as well.
*Not saying he couldn't play obviously - but it's odd how people deify certain musicians and make out no other musician could ever be better - when that's clearly not true*
:)
I don't disagree. I started a thread a couple years ago in which I made the same basic points about Randy Rhoads. For me, with Rhoads, it's the fact that he has less than 80 minutes of recorded music to his name (not including the first two Quiet Riot albums). While he obviously had a lot of potential, his death doesn't mean he gets credit for the unrealized potential.
As far as alternate universes, it would be interesting to get one where Cliff doesn't die. AJFA would have been VERY different, and I like to think that downward spiral of the 90s albums never would have happened. Another good one would one where Lars died in the bus crash instead of Cliff. Would folks worship him now as one of the all time greats?
Both Freddie Mercury and David Bowie died, but one not even 50 of Aids, the other nearly 70, who's more legendary? Freddie of course.
I don't know about that....
We'll never know obviously but what if Cliff just quit Metallica and became a recluse in 1986 instead ?
I do wonder if he'd have the same status amongst Metallica fans.
Of course he would. Vito Brata. Guy wants nothing to do with (professional) music, and Eddie Trunk gets asked about him almost monthly (Eddie Trunk is a NY/NJ DJ that has a weekly show on Sirius Satellite Radio, and his show is three or four hours where he takes calls from listeners in between music and interviews).
Who?
-
The other thing that grinds my gears ( idea for thread?!?! ) is when people worship Cliff Burton as if he was the absolute greatest musician of all time. Basically Jesus on Bass and nobody will ever
be better than him at bass ever.
I'd love to visit an alternate universe where Cliff just decided to quit Metallica in 1986 and hadn't died - to see how highly regarded he still is in 2020A.
Something about musicians who die gives them GOD status for some reason. Cliff couldn't do what Les Claypool or Victor Wooten do. Flea from RHCP is probably better as well.
*Not saying he couldn't play obviously - but it's odd how people deify certain musicians and make out no other musician could ever be better - when that's clearly not true*
:)
While I agree tragic death often blows things out of perspective for musicians (and sometimes it cynically becomes a gret involuntary career move as far as rep is concerned), I feel you're focusing a bit too much on technical proficiency alone rather than Cliff's gifts as sophisticated musician. Just think about all the amazing harmonic solutions and transitions (Fade to Black's intro-to-verse comes to mind as sudden example, but there are plenty) that the band's songwriting has lost forever.
He's never been the best ever, he may very well be one of the most influential though.
This. Cliff’s influence on Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets is undeniable, and those are often regarded as Metallica’s the best albums as well as two of the greatest metal albums ever. His knowledge of theory as well as his interest in classical and jazz gave Metallica’s music a level of finesse that the other thrash bands of the time just didn’t have. He insisted on Kirk transcribing all of his harmonies for solos (especially the song Ride the Lightning) so he knew exactly what notes he was playing. His musical acumen led to the brilliant dual guitar parts that deboned Metallica’s early career. Look at the layered harmonies on songs like Fight Fire With Fire, Ride the Lightning, For Whom the Bell Tolls, Fade to Black, Creeping Death, The Call of Ktutu, Battery, Master of Puppets, Welcome Home (Sanitarium), Disposable Heroes, Damage Inc, and Orion especially. Now compare that to their later output after he had passed. The difference is night and day. He was a very busy player, and isolated his tracks may have come off as a little sloppy, but in the mix his bottom end filled out the sound perfectly, complimenting the guitars while not following them note for note to give the riffs more depth. His style and musicianship was a huge part of that early Metallica sound, and his influence in undeniable. I might be biased as Cliff is the very reason I play bass, but doesn’t the fact that fifteen years ago his playing made me pick up the instrument that I play professionally today show how important and influential he was and is to his instrument?
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For one, we know One would've been even more epic if Cliff was still alive then. Who knows after that.
Dimebag was long gone from Pantera, along with his brother, creating Damageplan.
Chuck Shuldiner, left Death and created Control Denied.
Edit: Randy Rhoads, wanted to go to School and learn Classical Music. He could've been famous for that instead.
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This. Cliff’s influence on Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets is undeniable, and those are often regarded as Metallica’s the best albums as well as two of the greatest metal albums ever. His knowledge of theory as well as his interest in classical and jazz gave Metallica’s music a level of finesse that the other thrash bands of the time just didn’t have. He insisted on Kirk transcribing all of his harmonies for solos (especially the song Ride the Lightning) so he knew exactly what notes he was playing. His musical acumen led to the brilliant dual guitar parts that deboned Metallica’s early career. Look at the layered harmonies on songs like Fight Fire With Fire, Ride the Lightning, For Whom the Bell Tolls, Fade to Black, Creeping Death, The Call of Ktutu, Battery, Master of Puppets, Welcome Home (Sanitarium), Disposable Heroes, Damage Inc, and Orion especially. Now compare that to their later output after he had passed. The difference is night and day. He was a very busy player, and isolated his tracks may have come off as a little sloppy, but in the mix his bottom end filled out the sound perfectly, complimenting the guitars while not following them note for note to give the riffs more depth. His style and musicianship was a huge part of that early Metallica sound, and his influence in undeniable. I might be biased as Cliff is the very reason I play bass, but doesn’t the fact that fifteen years ago his playing made me pick up the instrument that I play professionally today show how important and influential he was and is to his instrument?
While there's a lot of accuracy here, I also think there's a lot of overstatement (and I say that as a fellow bassist who thinks quite highly of Cliff's playing). What I'm most interested in is your statement that Cliff insisted on Kirk transcribing the harmonies for solos. Where does that come from?
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This. Cliff’s influence on Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets is undeniable, and those are often regarded as Metallica’s the best albums as well as two of the greatest metal albums ever. His knowledge of theory as well as his interest in classical and jazz gave Metallica’s music a level of finesse that the other thrash bands of the time just didn’t have. He insisted on Kirk transcribing all of his harmonies for solos (especially the song Ride the Lightning) so he knew exactly what notes he was playing. His musical acumen led to the brilliant dual guitar parts that deboned Metallica’s early career. Look at the layered harmonies on songs like Fight Fire With Fire, Ride the Lightning, For Whom the Bell Tolls, Fade to Black, Creeping Death, The Call of Ktutu, Battery, Master of Puppets, Welcome Home (Sanitarium), Disposable Heroes, Damage Inc, and Orion especially. Now compare that to their later output after he had passed. The difference is night and day. He was a very busy player, and isolated his tracks may have come off as a little sloppy, but in the mix his bottom end filled out the sound perfectly, complimenting the guitars while not following them note for note to give the riffs more depth. His style and musicianship was a huge part of that early Metallica sound, and his influence in undeniable. I might be biased as Cliff is the very reason I play bass, but doesn’t the fact that fifteen years ago his playing made me pick up the instrument that I play professionally today show how important and influential he was and is to his instrument?
While there's a lot of accuracy here, I also think there's a lot of overstatement (and I say that as a fellow bassist who thinks quite highly of Cliff's playing). What I'm most interested in is your statement that Cliff insisted on Kirk transcribing the harmonies for solos. Where does that come from?
A quote from a Guitar World interview with Kirk from four years ago:
The harmonies are really apparent on this record, too, on tracks like “Creeping Death.”
Totally. He wrote that “Creeping Death” harmony part and the harmony in the intro to “Ride the Lightning.” He even helped me with a lot of the harmony stuff I played in the solo to “Ride the Lightning.” I remember, I thought he’d just grab a bass and show me. But no, he had me write out all the notes in my solo on a piece of paper. Then he grabbed a pencil and went through and notated it, “If you’re playing E, then G, then A, then C…” I’m looking at him like, What? But I took the paper and worked it all out. And you know what? It was perfect.
https://www.guitarworld.com/artists/metallicas-kirk-hammett-talks-ride-lightning-cliff-burton-and-benefits-taking-guitar-lessons-joe-satriani
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A quote from a Guitar World interview with Kirk from four years ago:
The harmonies are really apparent on this record, too, on tracks like “Creeping Death.”
Totally. He wrote that “Creeping Death” harmony part and the harmony in the intro to “Ride the Lightning.” He even helped me with a lot of the harmony stuff I played in the solo to “Ride the Lightning.” I remember, I thought he’d just grab a bass and show me. But no, he had me write out all the notes in my solo on a piece of paper. Then he grabbed a pencil and went through and notated it, “If you’re playing E, then G, then A, then C…” I’m looking at him like, What? But I took the paper and worked it all out. And you know what? It was perfect.
https://www.guitarworld.com/artists/metallicas-kirk-hammett-talks-ride-lightning-cliff-burton-and-benefits-taking-guitar-lessons-joe-satriani
Interesting. Thanks. :tup
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I think Kirk always does best with someone who challenges and pushes him as hard as they can. He seems like a nice enough guy that he'll rise to the occasion and not dominate.
My problem with Kirk's solos on the last two albums is that they reek of his laziness. Lars seems to be producing them and he's just like "YEAH RAWK!" to everything. I say, when it's time for Kirk to solo, get Bob Rock back in there or someone like that.
In fact, keep Greg on engineering, and get someone like Bob back in to push the band and challenge them a bit. James mostly seems fine, but Lars and Kirk need to be challenged.
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Nothing wrong with that at all. Oh, wait, I mean, I disagree with that completely!
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S&M2 release details
https://www.metallica.com/sm2/?j=220443&sfmc_sub=4328483&l=329_HTML&u=5489283&mid=100013938&jb=670&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=200714_sm2
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S&M2 release details
https://www.metallica.com/sm2/?j=220443&sfmc_sub=4328483&l=329_HTML&u=5489283&mid=100013938&jb=670&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=200714_sm2
Definitely buying this on blu-ray :metal
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S&M2 release details
https://www.metallica.com/sm2/?j=220443&sfmc_sub=4328483&l=329_HTML&u=5489283&mid=100013938&jb=670&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=200714_sm2
I might buy the video. I think I have the first one on both DVD and CD, but I know I never listen to the CD. The setlist for the S&M2 is just meh, so I'm not sure about this.
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I'm buying the Blu Ray for sure, but yea. I wish they had a better setlist. I think it was 2/3 the same as the first one? Something like that. Many perfect songs for the occasion, again, got left out.
And they also (the band themselves) played many of the songs just like they would for a normal show. Like No Lead Clover, Kirk played some of the orchestra parts on guitar which he did for the other live shows. It made sense THEN because they had no orchestra, but now with one he's still playing them? eh.
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I'm buying the Blu Ray for sure, but yea. I wish they had a better setlist. I think it was 2/3 the same as the first one? Something like that. Many perfect songs for the occasion, again, got left out.
The setlist from S&M2 was as follows (with repeated songs marked by an "*"):
*The Ecstasy of Gold
*The Call of Ktulu
*For Whom the Bell Tolls
The Day That Never Comes
*The Memory Remains
Confusion
Moth into Flame
*The Outlaw Torn
*No Leaf Clover
Halo on Fire
Scythian Suite, Op. 20, Second Movement
Iron Foundry
The Unforgiven III
All Within My Hands
(Anesthesia) Pulling Teeth
*Wherever I May Roam
*One
*Master of Puppets
*Nothing Else Matters
*Enter Sandman
Not quite 2/3, but more than half, and it's 10/17 if you don't count Ecstasy and the other two classical pieces. If I'm counting correctly, that's only four songs from the three studio albums released subsequent to the first S&M.
Scott Pingel's performance of Anesthesia might be worth the price all by itself. While I can understand keeping Ktulu, One and Master, there are LOTS of good candidates to change things up.
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Yea, I'd have ditched Memory, Outlaw, No Lead, Roam, and Sandman at least.
I think either Fade or Sanitarium, TLITD or Orion, Unforgiven I or II, and maybe even Blackened in their place.
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Unforgiven III is the worst Unforgiven by a long way but it sounded great here.
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Unforgiven III is the worst Unforgiven by a long way but it sounded great here.
We, surprisingly agree.
I'd still have rather heard either of the other two, but I'm okay with what they did with it.
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S&M2 release details
https://www.metallica.com/sm2/?j=220443&sfmc_sub=4328483&l=329_HTML&u=5489283&mid=100013938&jb=670&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=200714_sm2
Definitely buying this on blu-ray :metal
Indeed. 100%. I don't actually own any Metallica live DVDs as I watched Cunning Stunts so many times - I did a trick where i'd get a friend to select a song and pause the footage and i'd know what song
it was from the still frame. That's how much I watched it. S&M a bit less and Binge and Purge even less still. And they release so many pro-shot videos on their YouTube I don't need
another Metallica live ( non S&M2 ) release. They also released a whopping FOUR live DVDs all in 2009.
Mexico. France. The Big Four and Quebec.
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Unforgiven III is the worst Unforgiven by a long way but it sounded great here.
We, surprisingly agree.
I'd still have rather heard either of the other two, but I'm okay with what they did with it.
:hifive: :hug: :-*
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Yea, I'd have ditched Memory, Outlaw, No Lead, Roam, and Sandman at least.
I think either Fade or Sanitarium, TLITD or Orion, Unforgiven I or II, and maybe even Blackened in their place.
I think Outlaw was the best of S&M2. I could do without leaf.
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Yea, I'd have ditched Memory, Outlaw, No Lead, Roam, and Sandman at least.
I think either Fade or Sanitarium, TLITD or Orion, Unforgiven I or II, and maybe even Blackened in their place.
I think Outlaw was the best of S&M2. I could do without leaf.
I honestly don't remember how it sounded from the movie screening I went to. But the version on S&M is perfect. So I just didn't see the need to redo it.
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I missed Battery. That was my top song from S&M1.
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I was watching the video of Nothing Else Matters, which was awesome and it made me think... while I would have rather they varied the set more, I think being 20 years later kind of shows some differences in their sound and look to make it actually cool to see the same songs again. I'm really looking forward to this.
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I think my personal preference for a S&M 2 setlist would be one with none of the tracks from the original S&M and only other ones. Like instead of Kthulu again you could have Orion. Sure the first one has many of their classics but there's still a few that weren't played and they could have mixed those with some deep cuts and some newer songs they've made since.
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Even more than that, the first thing to consider when play with an orchestra is picking song that could work well with an orchestra. For example, looking at the original one and staying in the same album - they played Of Wolf and Man but not My Friend of Misery...?
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Shame they didn't do the whole of Justice on S&M2. Those songs with a proper, full production would be cool, and needed. Can't stand it the way it sounds.
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Here's just a few of their great songs that they did not play for the original S&M that could have been cool for S&M 2
Orion
Creeping Death
The Unforgiven
Disposable Heroes
King Nothing
Harvester of Sorrow
The House That Jack Built
Seek and Destroy
Ride the Lightning
And Justice For All
Fight Fire With Fire
Blackened
Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
Fade to Black
Fixxxer
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Here's just a few of their great songs that they did not play for the original S&M that could have been cool for S&M 2
Orion
Creeping Death
The Unforgiven
Disposable Heroes
King Nothing
Harvester of Sorrow
The House That Jack Built
Seek and Destroy
Ride the Lightning
And Justice For All
Fight Fire With Fire
Blackened
Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
Fade to Black
Fixxxer
I agree with most of those. I was going to say that I wasn't so sure about Blackened, but it's not really any different than Battery, so maybe. The "die by my hand" section of Creeping Death would have been particularly cool with the orchestra.
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If there is one song in their whole catalog that is perfect for the orchestral treatment it is Orion. No clue why they skipped it.
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I think my personal preference for a S&M 2 setlist would be one with none of the tracks from the original S&M and only other ones. Like instead of Kthulu again you could have Orion. Sure the first one has many of their classics but there's still a few that weren't played and they could have mixed those with some deep cuts and some newer songs they've made since.
I'm assuming the repeat tracks were for a few reasons:
1. They're the hits and have to be played
2. They're paying tribute to the 20 year anniversary of the record by including some of those songs again.
3. The songs already have the orchestration/arrangement completed, so it's less work to include them over writing new orchestration for different songs.
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I'm assuming the repeat tracks were for a few reasons:
1. They're the hits and have to be played
2. They're paying tribute to the 20 year anniversary of the record by including some of those songs again.
3. The songs already have the orchestration/arrangement completed, so it's less work to include them over writing new orchestration for different songs.
1. There were a bunch of "hits [that] have to be played" that weren't played the first time (e.g., Fade to Black and Sanitarium), so that reason doesn't really fly.
2. Meh...maybe, but "some" doesn't have to be a significant majority.
3. If this is really a reason, it's an utterly lazy reason, and we don't even know that Michael Tilson Thomas used Michael Kamen's original orchestrations/arrangements. I don't have any basis for this, but I would think a conductor like Thomas would have wanted to do his own orchestrations/arrangements.
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I really think it's a mix of 1 and 2. There's a lot of overlap between the hits and the songs from S&M1 to play again for the anniversary. I'm not sure how much #3 factors in. They still had to learn new songs. They could have learned more if that was part of the plan. It really comes off as the band wanted to celebrate the original S&M and by doing that, they play most of the same songs. It makes sense. Even though I'm totally with you all for what I would rather get, but based on being an anniversary type of set, it makes sense.
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If there is one song in their whole catalog that is perfect for the orchestral treatment it is Orion. No clue why they skipped it.
Indeed. But there's a really great version of Orion on the end of the Thru The Never soundtrack album.
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If there is one song in their whole catalog that is perfect for the orchestral treatment it is Orion. No clue why they skipped it.
Indeed. But there's a really great version of Orion on the end of the Thru The Never soundtrack album.
Ugh. That is such a great version.
A version with an orchestra would’ve also been cool.
But I’d have preferred TLITD. I think a well composed symphony could’ve elevated the hell out of that song.
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Silly thought: they could take advantage of the orchestra (and its arranger) to connect the Unforgiven trifecta.
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Silly thought: they could take advantage of the orchestra (and its arranger) to connect the Unforgiven trifecta.
I remember reading that they considered doing that with Unforgiven I and II for the original S&M (as well as bringing back AJFA).
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If there is one song in their whole catalog that is perfect for the orchestral treatment it is Orion. No clue why they skipped it.
Indeed. But there's a really great version of Orion on the end of the Thru The Never soundtrack album.
I'm glad to know that I'm not the no only one who loves that version... The only thing that woulda made it better woulda been Orchestra lmao
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Ugh. That is such a great version.
A version with an orchestra would’ve also been cool.
But I’d have preferred TLITD. I think a well composed symphony could’ve elevated the hell out of that song.
I would definitely want to hear an orchestral rendition of TLITD, which (to reprise the conversation from a page or so ago) is my favorite Metallica instrumental. But my sense is that the band is still a bit touchy about that song because of the association with Cliff. If I recall correctly, they've only played it once, at one of the 30th anniversary shows.
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I would definitely want to hear an orchestral rendition of TLITD, which (to reprise the conversation from a page or so ago) is my favorite Metallica instrumental. But my sense is that the band is still a bit touchy about that song because of the association with Cliff. If I recall correctly, they've only played it once, at one of the 30th anniversary shows.
If setlist.fm is accurate, they played a medley of Orion/TLITD/Ktulu at 22 shows in Europe in May/June 1993 and two shows in July 1993 with an Orion/TLITD medley. The song by itself has only been played at a 12/7/11 show on the 30th anniversary tour in San Francisco.
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So Monday night - Metallica's You Tube are streaming a newly remixed June 6 2006 from Germany.
The gig that features Master Of Puppets played in full and Death Is Not The End - both for the first time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNT_O8yczE8
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:D Does it annoy anyone else when they see Kill Em All abbreviated to KEM for some reason?
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:D Does it annoy anyone else when they see Kill Em All abbreviated to KEM for some reason?
Hmmm. I'm not even sure I'd notice haha. I think I'd just correct it without realizing.
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:D Does it annoy anyone else when they see Kill Em All abbreviated to KEM for some reason?
I can't recall ever seeing it abbreviated that way.
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Tuned in this Monday to see Commando and then I remembered how awesome that show was so I watched a few more. I've been bundling the declining quality of Metallica's Hardwired tour with all the tours they did post-Newsted, forgetting all the awesome stuff 2006 to 2012.
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Lars was all over the place from about 2004 onwards.
Maybe it's age but he's much more solid these days.
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I've been a Metallica fan since I was 13 and heard The Black Album from a friend of mine. In fact, they have been my favorite band up until I discovered DT towards the end of 2011. I like all their albums (even St. Anger) some more than others of course. And I expect I will continue to like all the music they make. I don't care that Lars and Kirk are not the most technical players and are often kind of sloppy live. I still love their music and style.
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Yesterday's Metallica Monday show was a 2000 gig from Dallas. I've mentioned it before, but it was a makeup date (the first of 4) from two stadium shows that Hetfield couldn't make. Tacked onto the end of the tour, they just crammed all of their stadium PA under the shed at Starplex, and then put even more out on the lawn. In nearly 40 years this is the loudest show I've seen, and it's not remotely close. About halfway through I went to chill on the lawn for a few minutes, and it was deafening back there, too. I moved to the concourse area off to the side, and it was like the railroad yard from Gone with the Wind; people sprawled out on picnic tables holding their heads. :lol
The loudness doesn't come through with the soundboard audio, but it sure seemed to energize them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=399&v=3-BUC8UE_t8&feature=emb_title
edit: from the gig page:
SHOW NOTES
Make-up show featuring special guest James Hetfield.
OTHER ACTS
Corrosion of Conformity
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I saw them just before that show, at a speedway in suburban Chicago. They headlined some rock-fest that had a bunch of acts and they sandwiched the Summer Sanitarium tour (Metallica, Kid Rock) at the end of the bill. It was a shorter set, but still cool. That was the last time I saw Metallica - once in 1998 and twice in 2000.
After that, Jason left, James went to rehab, St. Anger came out, and prices started to increase past the $40/$50 mark that I felt comfortable with at the time. I'd seen them three times, once from the front row. I felt like I'd had enough Metallica for a while, though I'd like to see them again since they play more older stuff now.
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I think my personal preference for a S&M 2 setlist would be one with none of the tracks from the original S&M and only other ones. Like instead of Kthulu again you could have Orion. Sure the first one has many of their classics but there's still a few that weren't played and they could have mixed those with some deep cuts and some newer songs they've made since.
I'm assuming the repeat tracks were for a few reasons:
1. They're the hits and have to be played
2. They're paying tribute to the 20 year anniversary of the record by including some of those songs again.
3. The songs already have the orchestration/arrangement completed, so it's less work to include them over writing new orchestration for different songs.
Now you mentioned it. This could very well be the main reason why they chose those same songs.
Although, Orion and Fade to Black would work the best with an orchestra.
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Listening to Moth into Flame from S&M2 right now.
Eh. I mean, the band sounds good. But the orchestra is just pretty lazy sounding. Also mixed really low. I just imagine that Michael Kamen would've done something so much more interesting than doubling the guitars/vocals and minor flourishes here and there. Honestly, at this point I'm not totally unconvinced I couldn't have written something more interesting and I barely know what I'm doing.
But yea, whoever mixed this clearly wanted the band to be WAY at the forefront and the orchestra to be in the minor background, which is a real shame. Metallica have like 500 live recordings, we didn't need this one to sound like all the others.
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Did they mention if the video will have audio options like the original S&M where you can watch with either just the band or just the orchestra? I always thought that was a really cool feature, but if the orchestra isn't very interesting, I can see why they wouldn't include that.
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Yesterday's Metallica Monday show was a 2000 gig from Dallas. I've mentioned it before, but it was a makeup date (the first of 4) from two stadium shows that Hetfield couldn't make. Tacked onto the end of the tour, they just crammed all of their stadium PA under the shed at Starplex, and then put even more out on the lawn. In nearly 40 years this is the loudest show I've seen, and it's not remotely close. About halfway through I went to chill on the lawn for a few minutes, and it was deafening back there, too. I moved to the concourse area off to the side, and it was like the railroad yard from Gone with the Wind; people sprawled out on picnic tables holding their heads. :lol
I don't understand bands trying to be as loud as f-ing possible. It's not BADASS or TOTALLY AWESOME. After a certain point it just becomes a mush and uncomfortable
and you are at risk of serious permanent damage.
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Did they mention if the video will have audio options like the original S&M where you can watch with either just the band or just the orchestra? I always thought that was a really cool feature, but if the orchestra isn't very interesting, I can see why they wouldn't include that.
What?!
The things you don't notice when you're not paying attention. I know what I'll be watching/listening to this weekend. :metal :metal
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Yesterday's Metallica Monday show was a 2000 gig from Dallas. I've mentioned it before, but it was a makeup date (the first of 4) from two stadium shows that Hetfield couldn't make. Tacked onto the end of the tour, they just crammed all of their stadium PA under the shed at Starplex, and then put even more out on the lawn. In nearly 40 years this is the loudest show I've seen, and it's not remotely close. About halfway through I went to chill on the lawn for a few minutes, and it was deafening back there, too. I moved to the concourse area off to the side, and it was like the railroad yard from Gone with the Wind; people sprawled out on picnic tables holding their heads. :lol
I don't understand bands trying to be as loud as f-ing possible. It's not BADASS or TOTALLY AWESOME. After a certain point it just becomes a mush and uncomfortable
and you are at risk of serious permanent damage.
Some of us like loud shows. Eh, to each their own. Though in fairness, that one was over the top. Certainly a unique experience, though.
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Did they mention if the video will have audio options like the original S&M where you can watch with either just the band or just the orchestra? I always thought that was a really cool feature, but if the orchestra isn't very interesting, I can see why they wouldn't include that.
It’s been mentioned on their forums that this is not an option on the new release.
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Did they mention if the video will have audio options like the original S&M where you can watch with either just the band or just the orchestra? I always thought that was a really cool feature, but if the orchestra isn't very interesting, I can see why they wouldn't include that.
It’s been mentioned on their forums that this is not an option on the new release.
Thanks for the info, that is unfortunate. Thought that was such a unique and cool feature.
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Been listening to Death Magnetic. So happy to have that album since I wasn't really into Hardwired so its nice to have another album that I really dig besides their first few albums.
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Death Magnetic is awesome!!
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Agreed. While Hardwired's first CD has a couple of songs that are better than anything on DM; the latter is certainly ridiculously more consistent.
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I could not agree less.
Death magnetic was a step up from Saint Anger in songwriting but it still felt like they were trying to be Metallica 1986 again and re learning how to write as a band.
Hardwired to me is just precision. I'm glad they did a double album after 8 years... And I like every song. Even the more Load-ish ones. Cause I always loved Load / Reload.
Death magnetic had the "One riff from each member in every song" rule and they felt a bit disjointed.
Hardwired to Self Destruct was 100% Ulrich/Hetfield with one credit from Rob.
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I'm glad they did a double album after 8 years...
You mean you're glad they did an album that is 2 minutes and 7 seconds shorter than the first disc of The Astonishing? :lol
For the rest, I agree with you, Death Magnetic is the "Eh, guess we'd better do a classic metal album, anyone remembers what it was like?" album, Hardwired is a old band suprisingly inspired and focused that manages to do a more than acceptable album.
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K-Boy loves himself some Hardwired. ;D
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Why is Hardwired a double album considering it's shorter than Load which is a single album?
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Why is Hardwired a double album considering it's shorter than Load which is a single album?
Probably wanted to pad album sales? Double album release count for two album sales in Billboard 200, right?
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Hardwired has 1 side worth of good material, and it’s mostly a plodding pace. DM kills it dead.
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I don’t like Metallica. I don’t own any of their albums and wouldn’t willingly seek out any of their music to listen to ordinarily. But I was in a bit of a mood last night and messing around on my acoustic guitar and started playing an Em chord that randomly turned into Nothing Else Matters, and it was kind of cathartic.
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Put me in the camp of DM sounding reluctantly phoned in, and Hardwired as a pleasant surprise. Extremely high quality album that sounds like a “classic” Metallica album without sounding like a retread.
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I like both... They’re different, and IMO both are very consistent. If they swapped Murder One out for Lords of Summer, I would like every song on both albums.
And I don’t consider it a double album. It’s odd that they put it on two discs. Should have been one.
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Put me in the camp of DM sounding reluctantly phoned in, and Hardwired as a pleasant surprise. Extremely high quality album that sounds like a “classic” Metallica album without sounding like a retread.
Death Magnetic sounds so forced to me. The abysmal production does it no favours. Lars is trying to play like it's 1988 when he cant do it anymore ( I love Lars )
and the songs are overly long for the sake of it and disjointed. Everything about HTSD sounds streamlined to me.
Suicide & Redemption does not need to be TEN minutes long & The Day That Never Comes is a poor One / Fade to Black clone. Halo On Fire is way better.
Plus Unforgiven III is the worst Unforgiven by a long way.
And if you include Lords of Summer from Disc 3 - then the album lasts 85 minutes - so yeah i'd call it a double !
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Death Magnetic just feels so soulless to me. Like an album made in a cynical way of "lets get the fans back by making an album that sounds like the old albums" without capturing the spirit or essence of those albums and what made them great. The band might have been passionate about DM when they made it but for me it just doesn't shine through in the actual music. I get more of an artistic 'we put our souls into this and tried to do something we are passionate about' vibe from St. Anger or Lulu than I get from DM. The songs themselves on DM also felt super cut & paste with riffs and sections that did not feel like they should be in the same song.
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The songs themselves on DM also felt super cut & paste with riffs and sections that did not feel like they should be in the same song.
Yes to all of that. Apparently they had a 1 riff from each member rule on DM. And it shows.
I've often thought that apart from everything else - the actual *energy* on St Anger is completely missing on Death Magnetic.
St Anger has some of Lars most *creative* drum parts on record.
I do think that if HTSD was released like this it would stand up with their 80s albums...
1. Hardwired
2. Atlas Rise!
3. Now That We're Dead
4. Moth Into Flame
5. Dream No More
6. Halo On Fire
7. Confusion ( that main riff is so AJFA )
8. Spit Out The Bone.
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This week's live show is from the St. Anger tour, where they busted out Damage, Inc. & Dyers Eve :metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCYDSdEu7KQ
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The original mixes of the 2004 tour made them sound sloppy as fuck.
Turns out they were actually pretty good that year...
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https://www.youtube.com/c/metallica/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0
Metallica on Howard Stern.
All Within My Hands Acoustic
Wherever I May Roam
The Unforgiven.
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https://www.youtube.com/c/metallica/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0
Metallica on Howard Stern.
All Within My Hands Acoustic
Wherever I May Roam
The Unforgiven.
Damn they're sounding really good, especially James. All's I need is for Lars to stop accenting the hihat with each snare hit and the goofy fills and it could pass for a 90's performance.
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He can switch with Charlie Watts - who never hits two drums at the same time.
He thinks if he hits the snare and the hi hat in unison - it diminishes them. But Charlie - we have these things called microphones now.
They're way cool and rad.
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So I ordered the S&M2 bluray last week and out of nowhere today they sent me an email with a link to download the mp3 album as well! Classy move Metallica :tup
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Nice, did you do it through their website? I got mine on amazon, arrived this morning but I won't be able to watch until Sunday
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Nice, did you do it through their website? I got mine on amazon, arrived this morning but I won't be able to watch until Sunday
Yes sir, through the website! Did Amazon give you the mp3 album as well?
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Well it's streaming today. If anyone wants to listen on Spotify etc.
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Nice, did you do it through their website? I got mine on amazon, arrived this morning but I won't be able to watch until Sunday
Yes sir, through the website! Did Amazon give you the mp3 album as well?
Nope, but it was cheaper (even with the member discount). But if I known that, maybe I would have. I mostly just wanted the blu-ray.
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Just listened to Nothing Else Matters and No Leaf Clover from S&M2 (since I love the original S&M versions of these) and the new versions really sounds inferior. Don't like the mixing and James singing is miles away from original S&M. Honestly Nothing Else Matters is a bit painful even. Maybe missing something but don't see the point of this release?
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Probably because it's awesome. Watched half the S&M2 blu ray last night and think it's fantasticly shot. Some awesome video of the performance and sound is crystal clear. I'd say from a visual perspective, this is much better than the original since video technology has gotten so much better since the original. You still have the original if you prefer it.
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I watched the whole thing and overall REALLY enjoyed it.
There are a number of flaws. No Leaf Clover is definitely a huge step down from the original. The mix is a bit too emphasizing the band over the orchestra, but it's not nearly as bad as when it came out in theaters, which was a big let down mix wise.
Some of the older songs had some tweeking of the orchestra parts that were pretty cool. Some new songs like Confusion just......really didn't seem to work too well. Along with Moth Into Flame. Just weak symphony parts. I wish Michael Kamen was still alive and did this, I feel like it would've been better for the new songs.
Overall, some really amazing parts, some less amazing parts, a lot of missed opportunities, but generally great fun and had a ball.
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Yeah can imagine the video must be fantastic! I will listen to the heavier songs and the songs I am not already very attached to from S&M (Nothing Else Matters is so perfect on original S&M) and hope that will be an improvement.
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If anyone has some faint interest in what some other songs might have sounded like with an orchestra, some cover band called Scream Inc did a symphony show with some of the songs that weren't on S&M 1 or 2. Here's a few.
Unforgiven II - https://youtu.be/U1Kn7I6aLR0
Unforgiven - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y189YZDFsw
Turn the Page - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNcQwaXAiUA
Obviously the vocalist is far from Hetfield, but he does a decent job and hits the notes. Also fake audience cheers are a bit odd, but it's not too distracting.
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Did anyone see the drive in "concert" last weekend? Honestly thought it sounded like a money grab and the setlist was very meh. I guess if you loaded up the car with people to make the price per person reasonable it might have been a fun night out of the house though.
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Did anyone see the drive in "concert" last weekend? Honestly thought it sounded like a money grab and the setlist was very meh. I guess if you loaded up the car with people to make the price per person reasonable it might have been a fun night out of the house though.
Oh hell no. Like 150 bucks? And how many people can you even put in a car that would still enjoy the show?
If it gets on youtube, I'll check it out. Otherwise, big pass.
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Did anyone see the drive in "concert" last weekend? Honestly thought it sounded like a money grab and the setlist was very meh. I guess if you loaded up the car with people to make the price per person reasonable it might have been a fun night out of the house though.
Oh hell no. Like 150 bucks? And how many people can you even put in a car that would still enjoy the show?
If it gets on youtube, I'll check it out. Otherwise, big pass.
I think it was 115 before taxes/fees (I never tried to buy one to see the grand total). I think you could bring 6 people per car.
If it was live, I'd have a bit more interest, but it was pre-recorded so to me, it's more like going to the drive in movie than a concert. But maybe people really enjyoed it, I have no idea. It felt like a money grab from one of the richest bands so its hard for me to justify spending that money (unless I somehow managed to get 5 other people to a car but that's hard enough normally let alone during corona times). I saw the setlist and was also very underwhelmded. Like if they did some really interesting songs, I could say maybe that's worth it too.
Having said that, I paid $16 (after tax) for S&M2 and that is visually beautiful. Throw that on my basement home theater and I have a hard time thinking this drive in movie would be better or even close in value.
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Yea, I'd be fine calling it a money grab, but I'm also okay with that. It's just a totally optional thing for people and it's not like they're holding anything over us to do it.
Also the band just spent like 6 months putting free live shows on youtube every week, so they can do whatever the hell they want.
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Yea, I'd be fine calling it a money grab, but I'm also okay with that. It's just a totally optional thing for people and it's not like they're holding anything over us to do it.
Also the band just spent like 6 months putting free live shows on youtube every week, so they can do whatever the hell they want.
That's kind of what I don't understand. They have all these free videos they put out, a paid release, what's the point of doing the drive in if they aren't performing live? Of course everyones allowed to choose to put this on and go/not go. I'm just wondering if anyone went and they can actually say "totally worth it" or something to maybe give some perspective I'm not understanding.
Also, the Metallica Mondays are now over, but they raised a lot of money for charity so if this was their way of getting a pay check after giving so much to charity, I guess that's fair and a pretty solid thing to do overall.
Also, it seems they sold very well, so people definitely had interest in it.
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I went and had a good time, but also had a group of us that went so my cost wasn't much more than a normal night out at the movies - which essentially is what it was, a movie. So in that regards yea the cost was justified for me. We all sat outside in lawn chairs so it wasn't like we were all crammed in the car the entire time. There was a pretty decent turnout at the drive-in we were at. The band sounded really good and showed some good energy playing to an empty stage. Great to see James back at it.
That all said, I'm in total agreement with cramx that the setlist certainly left something to be desired and brought the overall experience down a notch for me. It was just a condensed version of the same setlist that they played when I saw them in Detroit in 2017 - except with the addition of Creeping Death. Since this was a planned/pre-recorded event, I was hopeful of some deeper cuts and didn't need to hear Sad But True, Fuel, Nothing Else Matters and the like for the umpteenth time. They also had 3 Days Grace 'open' the night with about a 30-45-minute set. I'm sure it had to be awkward for them to talk into the camera and say the same stage banter they do for an actual live show (i.e. 'I can't hear you!' 'Repeat after me - hey! hey! hey!' 'We wanna thank Metallica for bringing us out and letting us open', etc.).
So it was a fun night out with friends with a (hopeful) rare special kind of event. Let's just hope that doctors can find a vaccine soon to beat Covid and that we can get back to actual touring and real in-person live performances though. However I don't blame bands though from trying to find new/creative ways to bring in some income until they can get back out on the road.
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They also had 3 Days Grace 'open' the night with about a 30-45-minute set.
Oh, that's actually pretty cool. Didn't realize they had another band doing a set. Adds some value IMO and while I'm not a big fan of them, I've seen them live a couple times and they can be fun. Glad you had a good time too.
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I caught a clip of Lars explaining the drive in thing, and there was a promoter backing it. Garth Brooks and Blake Shelton did the first ones and Metallica was the first hard rock band to be asked to do it.
So it wasn't the band's idea, they were just asked to do it, much like any other concert.
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I caught a clip of Lars explaining the drive in thing, and there was a promoter backing it. Garth Brooks and Blake Shelton did the first ones and Metallica was the first hard rock band to be asked to do it.
So it wasn't the band's idea, they were just asked to do it, much like any other concert.
I mean if they were asked to do it and the promoter was willing to pay Metallica's asking price to do it and people are willing to pay for it, where is the damage truly in all of this? People want some entertainment in these hard unpredictable times in some form and here's an outlet for it. I would go to something like this if the ticket price was $50.00 (not for $150.00, especially if I was the only one going in my car).
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No damage done by doing this. That's certainly not why I brought it up even if I called it a money grab. If people got their moneys worth (from the buyer to seller) then all is good in the world. I only was curious if people actually felt they got their moneys worth because it seemed like a lot of money for more of a movie than a concert.
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Unless a band was live standing in front of me, I wouldn't pay anything, unless I could get a copy of it.
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I wish James had gone
" I can't hear youuuu ! " and then " No I literally can't hear you...." in between songs.
I can totally imagine him doing that with his goofy sense of humour.
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I personally wouldn't have paid for it. But if offered the opportunity to go, I'd go. The way I see it as, is just a way to go out with friends again.
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I personally wouldn't have paid for it. But if offered the opportunity to go, I'd go. The way I see it as, is just a way to go out with friends again.
:tup
That was the other reason I went - to hang out with friends from high school that I rarely get to see anymore. That part was worth the money I spent as much as it was watching Metallica.
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I don't see how it's any different to paying to go to see S&M2 in the cinema.
If you take 6 people in one car it's $20 each.
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I don't see how it's any different to paying to go to see S&M2 in the cinema.
If you take 6 people in one car it's $20 each.
Two main differences I can see.
1) I could buy one individual ticket and didn’t have to either pay a ton or take a bunch of people.
2) S&M2 for all its faults is a special event. This apparently is a mediocre set list just with no audience.
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I could argue #2 in that:
* This should be labeled as a 'special' event as well since it's just a one-time show. Yes, not near as special as having an orchestra but still, a special event nonetheless...and;
* No one knew what the setlist was going to be ahead of time (at least that I am aware of) so don't think that can be used as a reason to not have gone in the first place.
But for those that didn't attend, you didn't miss out on anything if you've already seen them live before.
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I could argue #2 in that:
* This should be labeled as a 'special' event as well since it's just a one-time show. Yes, not near as special as having an orchestra but still, a special event nonetheless...and;
* No one knew what the setlist was going to be ahead of time (at least that I am aware of) so don't think that can be used as a reason to not have gone in the first place.
But for those that didn't attend, you didn't miss out on anything if you've already seen them live before.
Oh I didn’t mean it as a reason to not go. Just how it differs from SM2.
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I don't see how it's any different to paying to go to see S&M2 in the cinema.
If you take 6 people in one car it's $20 each.
Two main differences I can see.
1) I could buy one individual ticket and didn’t have to either pay a ton or take a bunch of people.
2) S&M2 for all its faults is a special event. This apparently is a mediocre set list just with no audience.
3. You need to gather 6 people in a time when you are supposed to be socially distant to get it down to $20 (which is a very good price), so it's not so easy.
In general, even the drive in live concerts, the pricing per car puts the single person attendee really out of luck which sucks, but I do understand why it's like this.
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I wouldn't mind a drive in concert, instead of this drive in movie.
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.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkN2Dd6VoAA18Zy?format=jpg&name=small)
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This has the potential to be something interesting!
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I don't do the virtual things too often, but that seems like something I'd be into. I've long said that top three of my musical wish list items is a solo acoustic record from Hetfield (something like Myles Kennedy's album, but with a little darker edge).
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Yea, honestly it sounds interesting. Also, being for charity, it doesn't rub me off as a money grab. I'll have to see the PSU game time for that day to determine if I'll be able to watch though.
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I don't do the virtual things too often, but that seems like something I'd be into. I've long said that top three of my musical wish list items is a solo acoustic record from Hetfield (something like Myles Kennedy's album, but with a little darker edge).
Totally. I think his intense dedication to the Metallica family is what's keeping him from doing any kind of solo record, which I'd buy without hearing a note of first.
And their acoustic sets are usually pretty good, even when they do a song or two that clearly don't work acoustic. When they rework a song acoustically, it's just about always amazing, so I hope they pick a few new songs to do that this time too. Blackened will probably be there, but I'd love a weird acoustic Battery or The God That Failed that isn't just the song but played on acoustic guitars.
Also maybe a full band rendition of Mama Said acoustic?
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This is very cool, I'll watch this.
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Doublepost
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Just watched the Gibson Icons episode with Kirk Hammett. Anyone see this yet?
https://youtu.be/bPy8YyUgxyA
I have always loved listening to Kirk. So honestly excitable, yet humble. This was a great watch. I followed Metallica very closely through the 80's and it was great to hear him speak of those times.
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They're all like this since Some Kind Of Monster. Even Lars. He honestly changed so much. He's so down to earth and even self-deprecating now.
I think Jason leaving was the best thing to happen to all their egos.
Think about it. Since the Napster incident and Some Kind of Monster - has there really been a Metallica controversy - or a big Lars Ulrich story ?
Not really. I also think it's funny that people say Lars is impossible to get along with or whatever -
yet Jason quit the band because he wasn't allowed a side project and Mustaine was fired.
Their lineup has changed twice in like 40 years. ***
Now - how many people have been in Megadeth since 1983 ?
Also - now it's 2021 - Metallica celebrate FORTY years of existence this year. I really hope they release a new studio album this year. Even if it's December.
Also there's the Black Album remastered on the way and who knows what else they have planned ? :)
*** - I'm only counting from Kill Em All onwards.
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Just watched the Gibson Icons episode with Kirk Hammett. Anyone see this yet?
https://youtu.be/bPy8YyUgxyA
I have always loved listening to Kirk. So honestly excitable, yet humble. This was a great watch. I followed Metallica very closely through the 80's and it was great to hear him speak of those times.
I watched this a few days ago and really enjoyed the interview. One of the comments on the video made me laugh "ladies find yourself a man who talks about you the way Kirk talks about his wah pedal"
The whole Gibson Icons series is great, check out the other videos they have posted
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Who else have they had? I saw Jerry Cantrell has one, but I'm not really interested in him.
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Tony Iommi, you should listen to the Cantrell one, he has some great Eddie Van Halen stories in there.
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Speaking of Cantrell, I just got the "The Devil Put Dinosaurs Here" record, and MAN is it good. I ended up listening to it four times through in a row. I haven't done that in a LONG time. Really good, and not QUITE as sludgy and dark as the older stuff. "Voices" is, dare I say it, almost a happy tune!
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I remember liking Black Gives Way To Blue when I heard it the one time...
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I had a thought. I was playing along to Holier Than Thou from the Black Album and some of the fills are a bit awkward. Then I realised that Lars is a lefty playing on a righty kit. So he probably leads with his left hand. Those off kilter fills he does going into the verse are really f-ing awkward until you try them leading with your left hand ( as a righty ) then they make more sense.
I thought that was interesting. Noel Gallagher is also a lefty who plays righty.
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What?
I googled Lars Ulrich left handed and found nothing. I've never heard or seen anything to show him being left handed.
And, just before posting this, I googled him playing the intro to Sad But True drum cam and he leads everything right handed.
Edit: Looks like Holier Than Though has a decent amount of drum stuff that starts on the "and" which would be his left hand, but righties play it that same way.
Edit 2: Though I do appreciate you bringing this back to Metallica and not letting it become an Alice in Chains thread. :biggrin:
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I remember liking Black Gives Way To Blue when I heard it the one time...
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I had a thought. I was playing along to Holier Than Thou from the Black Album and some of the fills are a bit awkward. Then I realised that Lars is a lefty playing on a righty kit. So he probably leads with his left hand. Those off kilter fills he does going into the verse are really f-ing awkward until you try them leading with your left hand ( as a righty ) then they make more sense.
Nope. Lars is absolutely a righty. He had a pair of hihats on his right from RTL through TBA so he may have been using the hihats on that side to free up his left hand (which he does in Battery's verses to get those tom hits)
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What?
I googled Lars Ulrich left handed and found nothing. I've never heard or seen anything to show him being left handed.
Lars's FATHER was a lefty.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8UBuTOW3cmo/maxresdefault.jpg)
I couldn't find any photos of Lars playing tennis, but there are a couple pictures of him and his father holding their rackets. Dad has his in his left hand, and Lars has his in his right hand. Of course, these are inconclusive as to how he actually played.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EK_gzhiUcAEqzEI.jpg)
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Yea, but he said Lars was a lefty. I dunno about tennis, but he plays drums 100% right handed, not just on a right handed kit.
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I remember liking Black Gives Way To Blue when I heard it the one time...
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I had a thought. I was playing along to Holier Than Thou from the Black Album and some of the fills are a bit awkward. Then I realised that Lars is a lefty playing on a righty kit. So he probably leads with his left hand. Those off kilter fills he does going into the verse are really f-ing awkward until you try them leading with your left hand ( as a righty ) then they make more sense.
I thought that was interesting. Noel Gallagher is also a lefty who plays righty.
As is Phil Collins.
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What?
I googled Lars Ulrich left handed and found nothing. I've never heard or seen anything to show him being left handed.
Lars's FATHER was a lefty.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8UBuTOW3cmo/maxresdefault.jpg)
I couldn't find any photos of Lars playing tennis, but there are a couple pictures of him and his father holding their rackets. Dad has his in his left hand, and Lars has his in his right hand. Of course, these are inconclusive as to how he actually played.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EK_gzhiUcAEqzEI.jpg)
Lars' dad is Ned Stark? Amazing.
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I didn't know El Barto played tennis.
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I've seen videos of Lars signing stuff and he was using his lefthand so there's that.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuS1SQx0IxA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im34Ngi1k7U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz44Ky3a-4U
It's all anecdotal, of course, but all three of these are right-handed. I wonder if he might have started using his right-hand more in later years if he is indeed naturally a southpaw?
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:xbones
I'm confused now :D
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:xbones
I'm confused now :D
Sometimes videos get flipped. Maybe you saw that?
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It's possible. But I don't know why I thought he was a lefty.
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It's possible. But I don't know why I thought he was a lefty.
Well he DOES seem quite liberal.
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It's possible. But I don't know why I thought he was a lefty.
Well he DOES seem quite liberal.
Well, Scandinavian. Says it all. Bernie's a Metallica fan, in't he?
(I'm totally joking here; no P/R in the Met thread.)
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I've seen videos of Lars signing stuff and he was using his lefthand so there's that.
Sometimes videos get flipped. Maybe you saw that?
This photo (which also shows Trujillo signing righty) has a sign in the background with words that are not flipped:
(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/musician-lars-ulrich-and-robert-trujillo-of-the-us-band-metallica-picture-id1041912664)
I wonder if he might have started using his right-hand more in later years if he is indeed naturally a southpaw?
Well (again with indicia in the picture -- the cover of KEA and the Blackout and Live Evil posters on the wall -- that shows it's not flipped)...
(https://i.redd.it/s8a2fuh5r9a41.jpg)
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This is getting super dull, but what I said was that he was a righty but that if Kotow saw him signing lefty, maybe THAT pic was flipped.
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Are you sure that's Lars? The hair and the caterpillar (on the upper lip) look like a disguise to avoid the law. :)
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I stand erected :zydar: :neverusethis:
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Are you sure that's Lars? The hair and the caterpillar (on the upper lip) look like a disguise to avoid the law. :)
:lol :lol
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On a real Metallica kick at the moment. They were my number one favourite band from 2002 through to at least 2014. I know their albums back to front and still consider Ride the Lightning the greatest metal record of all time!
Currently watching the live show, in Seattle '89. Fuck, I wish I could've seen them live back then (I was 6 :rollin ). Jason brought so much energy to their live shows and they were just on fire at this point in their career.
Oh I also revisited St Anger, and played it in it's entirety for the first time in over a decade. You know what, I didn't hate it! I'm going to play it front to back again tomorrow and I'm looking forward to it!
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That '89 Seattle show is still probably my favorite concert to watch of any that I own. That atmosphere just looks intense and the band was on fire. Man how I wish I could have been at that show.
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Saw them 5 times on that tour and it was awesome.
Took these shots on March 16, 1989 in Worcester, MA
(https://i.imgur.com/q0FzJ7B.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/lOR6ryx.jpg)
I got Jason's pick too at that show!
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Yeah, the band absolutely blister on that Seattle show.
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I saw them on that tour too, only time they ever came to Vermont I’m pretty sure.
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I saw them on that tour too, only time they ever came to Vermont I’m pretty sure.
Where did they play in Vermont?
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I'd loved it just to see them play To Live is to Die!
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On a real Metallica kick at the moment. They were my number one favourite band from 2002 through to at least 2014. I know their albums back to front and still consider Ride the Lightning the greatest metal record of all time!
Ride is great but I think Orion is superior to Ktulu and Master doesn't have Escape. I think Master of Puppets is a flawless album but If I had to pick a 'weak' track - it might be Leper Messiah.
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On a real Metallica kick at the moment. They were my number one favourite band from 2002 through to at least 2014. I know their albums back to front and still consider Ride the Lightning the greatest metal record of all time!
Ride is great but I think Orion is superior to Ktulu and Master doesn't have Escape. I think Master of Puppets is a flawless album but If I had to pick a 'weak' track - it might be Leper Messiah.
As much as I love Orion, I really prefer Ktulu (which I think is probably because of how much I LOVE the S&M version!). Yes, I can also agree that Escape is the weakest track on Ride, as Leper Messiah is the weak link on Puppets. I still think Ride is just perfect, flows really well and has a great concept/theme that runs through it (although this is all head canon on my part, no confirmed concept by the band as far as I was ever aware).
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The Thing That Should Not Be is the only song on either album I ever skip.
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The Thing That Should Not Be is the only song on either album I ever skip.
But that's one of the best!!!
Ride, MoP and AJFA is a strong holy trinity but MoP is the only one for me that's fantastic all the way through. Both Ride and AJFA has 1 or 2 songs that are slightly weaker than the rest. (Still great albums though)
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As much as I love Metallica - I cannot listen to And Justice For All. It sounds like two people jamming in a bedroom. Not a studio produced album.
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Spinning my vinyl copy of S&M right now and holy fuck, this is just the perfect live album!!
The Thing That Should Not Be is the only song on either album I ever skip.
:facepalm:
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I'm a huge fan of Metallica's 80s output. AJFA is my favorite album from them because of the technicality of it. I always call it "prog thrash." While the missing bass is a bummer, overall, I think AJFA is their finest album.
I find the Black album to be very typical of most 80s bands...taking the heavier sound and infusing it with a big dose of melody and breathing room to appeal to a broader audience. I don't hate the record, but I'm not as fond of it as what came before it. Almost every metal band that had success in the 80s did it though.
But I was never pleased with them after that. There are songs I really like from the Load records (Bleeding Me is a great tune). But Metallica, IMO, has never recovered from the turn they took with the Black record. Death Magnetic was one of the most contrived albums I've ever heard -- trying to be a metal band again, but absolutely no heart or soul in it. They aren't that band anymore. Hardwired is a little better. I think Spit out the Bone is their finest moment since AJFA. But there are a couple of songs, Atlas Rise comes to mind immediately that are really good.
But for the most part, I stick with three records -- Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, and And Justice for All. For me, those are quintessential heavy metal albums that defined Metallica. After them, they evolved in a way that wasn't quite as compelling for me. It's something about thrash metal bands...personally, I feel their box is more rigid than other bands.
For example, to me, Queensryche's Empire, Promised Land, and even Hear in the Now Frontier is a very natural progression of their songwriting. They were never claimed to be the heaviest band ever. They never wanted to be labeled metal. To me, they can get away with that shift because it's natural. But bands like Megadeth, Metallica, Death Angel, Testament etc., not so much. With those kind of bands, once you start moving away from heavy and focusing on melody, you lose the point of thrash. it's a VERY fine line. That doesn't mean the songs aren't good (for example, there are plenty of post-AJFA Metallica songs I like), but in my mind, it's just a very limited area that you have to experiment in.
It's so weird. On one hand, I commend them. But on the other hand, because they are thrash, I just feel like they cheated on the genre that defined them. That's why I respect Testament so much. They wavered for ONE album, The Ritual. And it was really good. But as soon as that cycle was over, they did LOW then Demonic and The Gathering and have stayed thrashy and heavy ever since.
Anyway, love Metallica, by far the 80s record over anything else (and I own the catalog). Great stuff. I wish I would have seen them in 88/89 with Queensryche opening. Two bands, on the support tours of my favorite records by both of them (and two of my top-10 albums of all time). It would have been amazing.
These last few posts reminded me -- I need to get the RTL box set. I have Puppets and Justice. Need Lightning...
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The Thing That Should Not Be is the only song on either album I ever skip.
The album version, as cool as it is, never did much for me. The S&M version, on the other hand, kicks all kinds of ass. Such a great and frightening orchestration.
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I'm a huge fan of Metallica's 80s output. AJFA is my favorite album from them because of the technicality of it. I always call it "prog thrash." While the missing bass is a bummer, overall, I think AJFA is their finest album.
I find the Black album to be very typical of most 80s bands...taking the heavier sound and infusing it with a big dose of melody and breathing room to appeal to a broader audience. I don't hate the record, but I'm not as fond of it as what came before it. Almost every metal band that had success in the 80s did it though.
But I was never pleased with them after that. There are songs I really like from the Load records (Bleeding Me is a great tune). But Metallica, IMO, has never recovered from the turn they took with the Black record. Death Magnetic was one of the most contrived albums I've ever heard -- trying to be a metal band again, but absolutely no heart or soul in it. They aren't that band anymore. Hardwired is a little better. I think Spit out the Bone is their finest moment since AJFA. But there are a couple of songs, Atlas Rise comes to mind immediately that are really good.
But for the most part, I stick with three records -- Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, and And Justice for All. For me, those are quintessential heavy metal albums that defined Metallica. After them, they evolved in a way that wasn't quite as compelling for me. It's something about thrash metal bands...personally, I feel their box is more rigid than other bands.
For example, to me, Queensryche's Empire, Promised Land, and even Hear in the Now Frontier is a very natural progression of their songwriting. They were never claimed to be the heaviest band ever. They never wanted to be labeled metal. To me, they can get away with that shift because it's natural. But bands like Megadeth, Metallica, Death Angel, Testament etc., not so much. With those kind of bands, once you start moving away from heavy and focusing on melody, you lose the point of thrash. it's a VERY fine line. That doesn't mean the songs aren't good (for example, there are plenty of post-AJFA Metallica songs I like), but in my mind, it's just a very limited area that you have to experiment in.
It's so weird. On one hand, I commend them. But on the other hand, because they are thrash, I just feel like they cheated on the genre that defined them. That's why I respect Testament so much. They wavered for ONE album, The Ritual. And it was really good. But as soon as that cycle was over, they did LOW then Demonic and The Gathering and have stayed thrashy and heavy ever since.
Anyway, love Metallica, by far the 80s record over anything else (and I own the catalog). Great stuff. I wish I would have seen them in 88/89 with Queensryche opening. Two bands, on the support tours of my favorite records by both of them (and two of my top-10 albums of all time). It would have been amazing.
These last few posts reminded me -- I need to get the RTL box set. I have Puppets and Justice. Need Lightning...
I agree with you in concept, I don't agree with you in terms of what I like. I thought that AJFA and The Black Album were in many ways the purest expression of Metallica. I cop to a bias here, because I wasn't a fan of the band until TBA, but my roommate bought AJFA day of release and I heard it in real time. I think before they were a young band trying to prove their bona-fides, and after they sort of zig-zagged between what they wanted versus what they thought the fans wanted and as such were never really true to either. Hardwired might be the closest they came to crystalizing that.
I think it really depends on what you - the fan, not you, Samsara - want. I hate using AC/DC, because I don't buy the trope that they "keep making the same records over and over", but I also know that Angus and Malcolm haven't been on a massive search for internal truth through their art. They aren't John Lennon. If you want Metallica to be AC/DC, then you're probably a disappointed fan. If you want them to grow and evolve, and are with them on the journey, you're probably pretty happy. They're Marillion in a lot of ways, without the benefit of flying under the radar (Metallica changes, and a stadium full of people have an opinion; Marillion changes, and a club or small theater full of people have an opinion). Almost all bands go through this. If you are beholden to Kiss's first six albums, or Rush's first four, or Marillion's first four, or Van Halen's first six, or Aerosmith's first six, you're in the same boat, no?
I have no idea what he's thinking or feeling, but I would love to have an hour in a duck blind with James Hetfield, and ask him about these questions.
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(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/beautiful-black-blind-duck-close-up-its-beautiful-head-black-blind-duck-close-up-its-beautiful-head-121218152.jpg)
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What does everyone think of S & M 2 ?
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What does everyone think of S & M 2 ?
For me it was fine, but I was ultimately a bit let down. As I stated earlier, the original S&M is my favourite live album of all time, so it was never going to top that! I've listened through it three times to date, just for some perspective.
I just felt that every song they played on S&M 2, that was on the original, was just inferior. The classical piece performed by the orchestra was fine but it makes it just feel like they were struggling to find material to fill the set (to me at least). So that just leaves me with orchestral arrangements of songs that either didn't make the original cut, or came out after.
We've got All Within My Hands, Pulling Teeth (Anaesthesia), Confusion, Halo on Fire, Moth Into Flame, The Day That Never Comes and The Unforgiven III.
I'll start by saying I'm not really a fan of Hardwired so I'm not too fussed on any of those songs. I love that they had the balls to do a St. Anger song and Pulling Teeth is pretty good also. I also love The Day That Never Comes and The Unforgiven III.
To be honest, everytime I've listened to it, it's just made me want to listen to the original. I'm going to make an effort to listen to the above songs, separately from the rest of the album, tonight. I could probably give my opinion on those individual songs.
So yea, on the whole it was fine.
You?
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I saw it live in the cinema and loved it :)
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Battery >>> Fight Fire with Fire
Master of Puppets >>>>> Ride the Lightning
For Whom the Bell Tolls >>>> The Thing That Should Not Be
Welcome Home (Sanitarium) > Fade to Black
Disposable Heroes >> Trapped under Ice
Escape > Leper Messiah
Creeping Death >> Damage, Inc.
Call of Ktulu >>> Orion
These aren't perfect comparisons, but they're mostly close in terms of being similar songs.
Creep is the best song on either album, followed very closely by Master. Creep only gets two > over Damage because Damage is also an excellent song.
If I'm actively listening, I will skip Thing and sometimes Leper (the former being annoyingly plodding), and I'm not overly fond of FFWF and Lightning. I don't think Escape is all that bad and think that most folks who say it's bad are just aping the band's well-known dislike of the song.
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I saw them on that tour too, only time they ever came to Vermont I’m pretty sure.
Where did they play in Vermont?
Memorial Auditorium in Burlington.
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What does everyone think of S & M 2 ?
The first half is great. Kind of disappointed about there being so many repeats, but I'll take Ktulu and Outlaw any day, and all the performances are great. And The Day That Never Comes is money. But also, Ktulu into Master >>> Ktulu into Bellz, so...
Second half is super uneven and kind of all over the place. Opening with an orchestra only song no one knows? No thanks. Then into another orchestra song no one knows with the band adding... something? Meh. Then Unforgiven III with just James singing? I mean, love the song, and cool idea, but you just re-introduced the band into the concert. Feels like this should have been after Scythian or, even better, performed with the band. Then acoustic AWMH. Okay. I like it. Really good rendition of this version of the song. Then a bass/cello solo. Again, cool idea, but you just got the whole band back on stage to AGAIN take them off for a performance. Seems like the set could have used some tweaking. They wanted to do a bunch of interesting stuff, but shoved it all right at the beginning of the second set, taking up a quarter of the concert, and didn't even get it in the right order IMO. And then the last quarter is five hits that were all played at the original S&M. Huge meh. On top of that, they got rid of Michael Kamen's brilliant work on Master and Sandman for some wicked generic (and in some spots, plagiaristic) scores.
All that said, I do enjoy the album and Blu-ray, I just think it could have been better. It had a lot to live up to, and fell short. But it's still Metallica.
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I think Michael Kamen made the difference and can not be replaced.
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I think Michael Kamen made the difference and can not be replaced.
I agree. I agree so hard.
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I need to set some time aside to watch S&M2, I've seen clips of it and was put off by the massive venue. S&M had a more intimate feel which seem appropriate for the performance. I'll try and watch it this week, who knows I'm probably wrong.
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In regards to the S&M 2 setlist, I get it, it's only the second time they've done it. I adore the original so if I'd have gone and they hadn't played The Call of Ktulu, No Leaf Clover and Master of Puppets, The Outlaw Torn I'd have been gutted! I understand why they played so many songs from the original S&M, it's just a shame that none of them sounded as good as in the original, to me.
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Metallica have to put out a new album this year. Even if it's not til December. It's 2021.
The Band's 40th anniversary and also the 30th anniversary of the Black Album so i'm hoping for METALLICA remastered and New Studio Album too.
If they've been writing for the majority of 2020 - thy just need to get together in HQ and hash it out.
Once all the writing was done and they finally set foot in HQ to record the last album it was done a year later. They could easily get it out by December if they wanted to.
Plus it would only be 5 years since Hardwired came out.
It would be cool if they released one finished song a month for all of 2021. Then the completed album in December.
They have their own studio now and they're on their own label so nobody tells them what to do - or how to do it - or when to do it. There's zero touring either
so 100% time to focus on recording.
If they really wanted to top up the funds - they could do another "Mission Metallica" where you pay for exclusive footage from HQ. I don't know how well that
worked out for them during Death Magnetic...
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I need to check out S&M2, some of the Blu-ray footage looks great. I don't listen to the band like I used to which is why I haven't kept up with how and what they've been doing. I still had it in my head that James was out in rehab or something, or was it Kirk. But that may have been years ago at this point.
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James went back to rehab immediately after S&M2. He doesn't look good in S&M2 to be fair - overweight and tired.
He looks A LOT healthier now. Thankfully. Plus he cut his long hair off. To be fair it did age him really badly.
James a year ago :
(https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/vypx5yVjSFbYc664Gkb46X-1200-80.jpg)
James after rehab :
(https://static.billboard.com/files/media/james-hetfield-jan-2020-billboard-1548-1024x677.jpg)
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Regarding The Black Album - has it gotten the box set treatment yet? They've reiussed the 1983-1988 albums so far, so I guess the 30th anniversary would get a big box set and remix/remaster as well.
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For TBA, I'm excited to see what they include in the box set, but I want them to leave the actual album alone. It's production is perfect and still sounds fresh. There is no need to touch it at all.
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James went back to rehab immediately after S&M2. He doesn't look good in S&M2 to be fair - overweight and tired.
He looks A LOT healthier now. Thankfully. Plus he cut his long hair off. To be fair it did age him really badly.
James a year ago :
(https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/vypx5yVjSFbYc664Gkb46X-1200-80.jpg)
James after rehab :
(https://static.billboard.com/files/media/james-hetfield-jan-2020-billboard-1548-1024x677.jpg)
Those photos are night and day. James, to me, has always looked fierce and that has as much to do with his eyes as anything. In that former picture his eyes just look dull. Medicated.
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Why the hell would they remix or remaster TBA? It’s not lacking at all in those qualities.
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Yeah a remix/remaster would be redundant, and only hurt the album. But lots of bonus stuff would be cool.
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Regarding The Black Album - has it gotten the box set treatment yet? They've reiussed the 1983-1988 albums so far, so I guess the 30th anniversary would get a big box set and remix/remaster as well.
I'm guessing it woulda been out by now had it not been for last year. This year is the 30th so there is a chance they were holding off til this year so that :
• It's the 30th Anniversary
• It's The Band's 40th anniversary
• Brand New Album
I'm hoping anyway.
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Yeah a remix/remaster would be redundant, and only hurt the album. But lots of bonus stuff would be cool.
The Kill / Ride / Justice remasters sound great and not just LOUDER WITH MORE TREBLE! like a lot of remasters. METALLICA is untouchable as far as production
so i'm interested to see how it sounds. I'm collecting all the bog standard digpiaks of these new remasters and getting rid of my Jewel Case versions except for
Death Magnetic - with the cut out booklet and Saint Anger - with the live at HQ DVD :).
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Why the hell would they remix or remaster TBA? It’s not lacking at all in those qualities.
They're doing all 9 studio albums - probably becasue they're on their own label now and own the rights to all their masters etc. To get some official remasters out there.
I don't see the problem. They all sound great so far. Load could do with being a little less muddy. I'm really hoping that the Death Magnetic remaster - when it finally
arrives solves a lot more of the problems of the most recent fixed version - which DOES sound a lot better but still thin and brittle sounding.
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I just can’t imagine a remaster being any kind of improvement. As far as remaster at least. If they want to make some tiny diff just claim the rights...sure but I’ll skip.
Now, an artistic remix that isn’t trying to improve but instead offer a different take on it would be cool.
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I need to set some time aside to watch S&M2, I've seen clips of it and was put off by the massive venue. S&M had a more intimate feel which seem appropriate for the performance. I'll try and watch it this week, who knows I'm probably wrong.
Yeah, but I think they had to play in the new arena, since the Chase Center was opening in San Francisco at the time, and Metallica was the first event hosted in the arena. They opted to revisit S&M again to make the grand opening of the arena special and conveniently tie in celebrating the 20th anniversary of the first version.
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I've made my thoughts on S&M2 clear a while ago. Overall, I enjoy it a lot. Though I almost always enjoy any Metallica show.
That said, I think it has a lot of unfortunate knocks against it.
- The super similar setlist. I know people who went to see this wanted to see the same songs as the first time, but this was MOSTLY to be seen as a recording for the vast majority of fans. So while some thousands got their wish, millions more got to see the exact same songs done again. I think that should've outweighed the decision to give the attending fans the same songs as the first go around.
- The band sounds less tight. Not much more to say about that. They were just ON TOP of everything that first time, but this time it's just kind of a typical Metallica show performance wise but with an orchestra.
- The new songs have largely pretty boring orchestration due to the loss of Michael Kamen who was just way ahead of the game on that ability. So instead of brilliantly thought out orchestra pieces, you largely had them doubling melodies/riffs already in the song. Plenty of exceptions, but very little stood out as interesting on the new songs.
- The mix, while largely good, seems to think of the orchestra as background noise and nothing that should be upfront. So you get a lot of cool stuff just buried.
- Crazy missed opportunities for songs that would've been perfect.
That said, there's some really cool new stuff there.
- I hate Unforgiven III as a song, but I really like this version
- Similar with The Day that Never Comes. I REALLY dislike that song otherwise.
- The orchestral only songs are very cool and welcome.
- AWMH was very cool. I wish they didn't play it constantly now, as its novelty has worn off, but it was super cool.
So overall, I really enjoy it, but consider it a whole lot of missed opportunities for something TRULY amazing.
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Yeah my main gripe with S&M2 is the setlist. Imo they should have thrown out any song they played on the original and gone with a 100% different setlist. There's still classics they didn't play and there's gems from Load/Reload they could have brought out.
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But also - people who couldn't get to the original S&M would love to hear some of those songs again...
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I see a few metal bands here and there doing [insert album title here] "revisited" recordings. I know the nand Soen did one recently. They basically re-record the album with the band's current line up often producing a superior record.
Metallica should do this with And Justice For All - they would make a fucking TON of money on it, I think. Imagine what that album could sound like with modern production values and a bass guitar? I know I'd happily pay good money for it.
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But also - people who couldn't get to the original S&M would love to hear some of those songs again...
It exists as an album and video release you can watch at any time though. For such a cool event considering it's a one off thing they did 20 years after the first one, it's such a bummer that maybe half of it is recycled from the first one.
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I see a few metal bands here and there doing [insert album title here] "revisited" recordings. I know the nand Soen did one recently. They basically re-record the album with the band's current line up often producing a superior record.
Metallica should do this with And Justice For All - they would make a fucking TON of money on it, I think. Imagine what that album could sound like with modern production values and a bass guitar? I know I'd happily pay good money for it.
I know they're not into changing the past - but a special edition AJFA with the original CD but remastered for purists who just want it a bit louder and brighter...
Then they should have also included a completely remixed and re-EQd and remastered version for those that 100% want it.
I laugh when I see " AJFA is perfect the way it is " - because if the OG album came out in 1988 and it sounded like The Black Album sonically -
I guarantee NOBODY would be going ... :huh: I guess its ok - but what it really needs is ZERO BASS :metal
---
I think the 2018 remaster of AJFA sounds good if you turn it up loud - when the guitar solos come in and fill out the spectrum - it ALMOST sounds like there is bass in there...
But the rhythm guitars still sound like a Metal Zone pedal into a Line6 Amp....
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It's unlistenable the way it is, which is a crying shame because it's a great piece of thrashy progressive metal and one of the most fun albums I've ever covered on -believe it or not- bass guitar of all things! What a learning experience that was!
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I agree that the setlist for S&M2 could've been better. I'd happily go without all the big hits (except Master of Puppets, which I loved on the original) and The Call of Ktulu, as I mentioned earlier. Also I get putting No Leaf Clover in as it was specially written for the first S&M. Outside of those three songs, I'd like a totally new set, as long as they picked the right songs.
As I'd said earlier, The Scythian Suite made me think they were trying to bulk out the set. Almost like they didn't want to play the same set as the first, but ran out of other songs to adapt? Probably not the case but give me Orion and To Live is to Die! They are already epic as fuck and if The Call of Ktulu is anything to go by, Metallica instrumentals work wonderfully with an orchestral arrangement.
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THIS IS FUCKING AMAZING (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MRx4LpYbQ4&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0fxHSfLPCdtQ3wTiPahHu3RfhWDwPz0yAArLxWzhWdHwuXO6M4YJQEMN8) :rollin :rollin
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The biggest fuckup they made on S&M2 was not finally doing Fixxxer. I believe James or Kirk said that there's too many guitar tracks to do it accurately live, but the orchestra could've solved that. They must just really not want to play that one.
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THIS IS FUCKING AMAZING (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MRx4LpYbQ4&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0fxHSfLPCdtQ3wTiPahHu3RfhWDwPz0yAArLxWzhWdHwuXO6M4YJQEMN8) :rollin :rollin
The little keyboard "stab" at about 0:25 in actually made me laugh out loud!
More seriously I dug the different chord progression under the chorus; it seems to resolve better that way. I could do without the horns and the bridge, but that part I dug that a lot.
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The biggest fuckup they made on S&M2 was not finally doing Fixxxer. I believe James or Kirk said that there's too many guitar tracks to do it accurately live, but the orchestra could've solved that. They must just really not want to play that one.
That song on S&M2 would have been GOLD!
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THIS IS FUCKING AMAZING (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MRx4LpYbQ4&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0fxHSfLPCdtQ3wTiPahHu3RfhWDwPz0yAArLxWzhWdHwuXO6M4YJQEMN8) :rollin :rollin
The little keyboard "stab" at about 0:25 in actually made me laugh out loud!
More seriously I dug the different chord progression under the chorus; it seems to resolve better that way. I could do without the horns and the bridge, but that part I dug that a lot.
The Yeah Yeah after the first chorus works so well !!!
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I still think it's a crime that Fade to Black never got the S&M treatment.
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I still think it's a crime that Fade to Black never got the S&M treatment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAdh7wAR5PA
Not perfect, but this guy does a pretty cool job with a lot of the songs Metallica didn't feel like doing for either of the shows.
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THIS IS FUCKING AMAZING (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MRx4LpYbQ4) :rollin :rollin
:lol
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THIS IS FUCKING AMAZING (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MRx4LpYbQ4&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0fxHSfLPCdtQ3wTiPahHu3RfhWDwPz0yAArLxWzhWdHwuXO6M4YJQEMN8) :rollin :rollin
That is awesome! can't believe how they managed to fit all those songs in the mashup.
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THIS IS FUCKING AMAZING (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MRx4LpYbQ4&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0fxHSfLPCdtQ3wTiPahHu3RfhWDwPz0yAArLxWzhWdHwuXO6M4YJQEMN8) :rollin :rollin
Everything about that mashup was gold. The music fitting the motions in the videos, and the music of all the songs fitting perfectly, together.
In an alternate universe. That was the number one song of the late 80's/early 90's.
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Hilarious, especially the Megadeth solo!
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Hearing Hip To Be Square made me add it to my " Pop Drumming " Playlist on Spotify along with " The Power Of Love ".
Good god. Both are epic fun to drum to. Groovy as hell and impossible not to grin like a lunatic. :D :D.
I much prefer drumming to a song with a PHAT groove than shredding to Meshuggah or something at 240BPM....
Here's my Pop Drumming playlist if anyone is interested : :)
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6SHYobQC8dFCGfFDsw37hs?si=-Mub8LdiQO2JNDPIJfN7Qg
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THIS IS FUCKING AMAZING (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MRx4LpYbQ4&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0fxHSfLPCdtQ3wTiPahHu3RfhWDwPz0yAArLxWzhWdHwuXO6M4YJQEMN8) :rollin :rollin
Sensational.
The added in Tipton solo was incredible.
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All of the mashups of that dude are genius!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k4b6Vh6JOc&ab_channel=TheLateShowwithStephenColbert
Enter Sandman live on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert.
James sounding GOOD !
His voice is really good for someone who is 58 this year.
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Yep, that was pretty damn good.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2Kf8BN6DD4&feature=emb_logo pretty good cover of enter sandman in the vain of southern metal
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2Kf8BN6DD4&feature=emb_logo pretty good cover of enter sandman in the vain of southern metal
So...Load and Reload?
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As a matter of fact, yes :lol
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His voice is really good for someone who is 58 this year.
You say that as if 58 is old :lol
I never wanted to be 56....until I was 55 :biggrin:
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I'm a fan, but Metallica isn't my favorite band of all time. But James Hetfield may be the coolest guy in rock over the last twenty years or so. Even now - he looks like Johnny Fucking Carson - he's still cooler than anyone else in the room.
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I'm a fan, but Metallica isn't my favorite band of all time. But James Hetfield may be the coolest guy in rock over the last twenty years or so. Even now - he looks like Johnny Fucking Carson - he's still cooler than anyone else in the room.
He does! :rollin
James is amazing!
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Great performance, though Lars accenting the snare hits on the hi-hat is absolutely killing the drummer in me.
I'm a fan, but Metallica isn't my favorite band of all time. But James Hetfield may be the coolest guy in rock over the last twenty years or so. Even now - he looks like Johnny Fucking Carson - he's still cooler than anyone else in the room.
:lol James is an insanely talented individual and I really appreciate the fact that he's obviously taken steps to prolong his ability to perform for many years to come. He sounded incredible
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Lars looks like Bun E. Carlos with those sticks, though.
(https://i.imgur.com/IPNd4LX.jpg)
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James has obviously and admittedly had help with his voice. He's not shy to admit he's had lessons / coaching.
I see Mustaine, however as being way too proud to ever take coaching or lessons or if he has - ever admit to it.
Despite having one of the worst voices in metal.
When I hear Mustaine singing - I always think - how does LaBrie get ALL the hate and Mustaine get NONE ?
Seriously - you just have to mention Dream Theater and everyone around goes LOL LABRIE.
mention Megadeth and nobody ever mentions how awful Mustaine's voice is.
I have the Big 4 in Sofia DVD and Mustaine sounds dreadful, screechy and straining on there - and apparently that's the OVERDUBBED vocals.
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I have a different experience where you can't hear Megadeth without the first thing being "Mustaine's singing though..."
Guess it depends on who you talk to but I thought it was pretty much universally agreed almost that Mustaine (at least nowadays) is the weak point of Megadeth
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I wrote about this in the LaBrie discussion (re: the comparisons with Dickinson). I think we're past the point of "admitting" things. I don't blame James at all; he's got a multi-million dollar organization - as well as his passion and perhaps emotional well-being - tied to the ability of his voice to sustain the rigors of being a major stadium touring act. I think instead of admitting to getting help, the "cowardice" should be about NOT admitting to getting help.
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It's weird though. If your guitar is out of tune - you tune it.
if the drum skin is slack - you tighten it.
Yet vocalists are supposed to be 100% all the time and can never admit to having help ?
Why not ? The voice is also an instrument which needs adjustment.
EDIT
Here's a thought though - people who cannot sing and are as good as tone deaf can be taught to sing great. Why can't singers who are past their best
be taught how to sing again ? Is it literally a physical thing where the voice cannot be repaired or re-trained ?
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What you lose physically is the range, and also the shape of your body (say you become quite overweight) can affect your performance.
For the rest, you're never too old to learn how to sing better / in the proper manner.
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I know there are some singers older than labrie who can still sing like they always have.
Is James old injury stopping him from re-training or are there other factors ?
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By 2006/7 James recovered from his injury, see the Innocence Faded high notes on Score. and the year after I heard him by myself nailing the high note of Learning to Live. Also, he never made a mystery that he was taking singing lessons and he even changed teacher at least once. I'd say that everything that happened from 2009/10 onwards has to do with him slowly ageing rather than the leftovers of the vocal chords rupturing in 1994.
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Yes. It's a shame. I remember my first experience of DT was their Master of Puppets live cover.
It was post incident AND at the end of a three + hour gig already.
No wonder he sounded bad. At the time I just assumed that was his normal singing voice.
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I know there are some singers older than labrie who can still sing like they always have.
Is James old injury stopping him from re-training or are there other factors ?
I would go so far as to say that Mick Jagger sounds better now than he did 40 years ago.
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I know there are some singers older than labrie who can still sing like they always have.
Is James old injury stopping him from re-training or are there other factors ?
I'm not a singer and I have zero training vocally but I am a musician and can usually tell when other musicians are tense and uncomfortable just by looking at them. From the videos I've seen of him singing (mainly the Cameo things), it looks like he is straining heavily and tensing up by singing higher than his natural voice will allow. I'm sure this poor technique and long tours with 3 hour shows have caused his voice to deteriorate rapidly. Maybe I'm wrong but the strain and anguish in his face is visible when he hits any high notes and it doesn't look like a healthy way to sing.
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When I hear Mustaine singing - I always think - how does LaBrie get ALL the hate and Mustaine get NONE ?
Seriously - you just have to mention Dream Theater and everyone around goes LOL LABRIE.
mention Megadeth and nobody ever mentions how awful Mustaine's voice is.
Good point, maybe because Dave isn't actually SINGING? :lol
James said it best during the recording of TBA: "I actually had to SING on this one, instead of just....yelling in key."
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https://mobile.twitter.com/moyetes/status/1362924085404180484?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1362924085404180484%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-17955612723992926118.ampproject.net%2F2102060044003%2Fframe.html
:lol
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Mustaine + microphone = ??? :tdwn
Dreadful
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James has obviously and admittedly had help with his voice. He's not shy to admit he's had lessons / coaching.
I see Mustaine, however as being way too proud to ever take coaching or lessons or if he has - ever admit to it.
Despite having one of the worst voices in metal.
When I hear Mustaine singing - I always think - how does LaBrie get ALL the hate and Mustaine get NONE ?
Seriously - you just have to mention Dream Theater and everyone around goes LOL LABRIE.
mention Megadeth and nobody ever mentions how awful Mustaine's voice is.
I have the Big 4 in Sofia DVD and Mustaine sounds dreadful, screechy and straining on there - and apparently that's the OVERDUBBED vocals.
I have a friend who used to try to get me into Megadeth back in the day, and the vocals were always a stopper for me. A week ago I remembered this and thought I'd give it another shot now that I got into growls and black metal vocals, maybe it will be better... no, I couldn't even last through one whole song. Can't stand him.
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When I plug my iPod in to certain devices, it defaults to "song list" and plays the first song. The first song, alphabetically, on my iPod is Megadeth's "À Tout Le Monde" (I put it in with the accent, even though I have the '94 version from Youthanasia). Voice or no voice, that is a great song.
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Seriously there's no contest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k4b6Vh6JOc This was Hetfield only last week.
Also - how many people have *quit* Metallica ? Cliff died and Jason left. That's literally it. Rob has been in the band for 18 years now.
How many people have quit or been fired from Megadeth ? Like 50 ?
I guess Lars isn't that hard to get along with...
I honestly think Lars has pretty much lost the ego since Some Kind Of Monster.
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I always thought Mustaine's vocals were good on the run from Countdown through Cryptic Writings; I can't speak to what he sounds like live though.
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I always thought Mustaine's vocals were good on the run from Countdown through Cryptic Writings; I can't speak to what he sounds like live though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W2ZZOMD0Xk&ab_channel=kamien198
And these were (allegedly) the studio overdubbed vocals. . .
Did anyone see that Mustaine has signed with Gibson Guitars ? I don't think i've ever seen him with a Gibson ? At least not in Megadeth anyway...
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Seriously there's no contest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k4b6Vh6JOc This was Hetfield only last week.
Am I the only one who finds this to be somewhat of a weird performance? I mean, no doubt James still sounds impressively good, but there's sort of a weird vibe to the whole thing. Maybe it's that they're not playing to a live audience, and Lars and Kirk are sort of acting like they are, while James and Rob aren't?
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I always thought Mustaine's vocals were good on the run from Countdown through Cryptic Writings; I can't speak to what he sounds like live though.
He absolutely killed it on Youthanasia...I think that was sort of their Black Album where they really focused on developing and strengthening his voice for the studio. I Thought I Knew It All and Addicted To Chaos are the highlights imo
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Dave has a wonderful singing voice when it comes to the ballads and really melodic stuff. I've always loved how he sang on those mid-90's albums - CTE/Youth/CW.
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Dave may not have a traditional singing voice, and it's actually quite silly, but I've always liked it, and I'm really picky when it comes to singers.
And he did have quite a good singing voice back in the day on songs like Breadline.
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Just saw Joseph Duplantier of Gojira talk about James and he nails alot what i've always been thinking myself about James.
"James Hetfield. I know, it's surprising. [Laughs] No, it's not surprising, because I've been talking about him. Surprising because James is more a band leader and a singer and nobody thinks of James Hetfield as a guitar player. Some people do, but I really put it up there. I'm not talking about solos.
James Hefield has something… if there was a school, he would be my teacher. If there was a school for rock, he would be my teacher. I want to follow his course. His right hand is a hammer, an unstoppable hammer. He's the foundation of the rhythmic section in METALLICA. I think Lars [Ulrich, METALLICA drummer] is just dancing around James's guitar. Everybody follows James.
"One time we were on tour with [METALLICA], we became friends with their monitor engineer because he was doing our monitors too; we hired him," Duplantier added. "We gave him like $100 in cash every day, 'Can you do our monitors? We don't have our own monitor guy.' And he was, like, 'I got you.' Then when METALLICA played, one time he gave me James's spare in-ears. This little box, a receiver. He said, 'Joe, come here,' because he saw me watching James and analyzing his fucking right hand. It's out of this world. It's not necessarily impressive on a technical level. It's the precision and the consistency and it's sharp. He gives me a little radio there and I plug it in, I have my own in ears and I'm, like, 'Oh my god, oh my god! This is James's fucking monitors! What?' I plug them in and put it in my pocket and look at him, and I was amazed to see that there was almost no drums in there. Who does that? What? Maybe there was some hi-hat, but he was flying through the songs, playing and singing and it was only him in his monitors. A little bit of drums to stay connected to the rest, but some people need a lot of drums because they're so chaotic and are just sitting on the drums, like in my case for example. This guy can do a whole show, and I'm pretty sure everybody's following him, even Lars. I think Lars follows James when he plays."
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/gojiras-joseph-duplantier-james-hetfield-inspired-me-to-play-guitar/
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James is the engine for sure.
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Well Lars' timing is pretty poor so not really surprising that James keeps the rhythm.
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James Hetfield IS Metallica. Their entire sound comes from his right hand and his voice.
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https://loudwire.com/game-show-contestant-metallica-questions/
Interesting! I got a 7/10 :)
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https://loudwire.com/game-show-contestant-metallica-questions/
Interesting! I got a 7/10 :)
Same, was it also 3, 7 & 9 that you didn't know? :lol
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https://loudwire.com/game-show-contestant-metallica-questions/
Interesting! I got a 7/10 :)
Same, was it also 3, 7 & 9 that you didn't know? :lol
In fact it was 3, 5 & 7 :)
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I already mentioned this in the NHL thread, but I might as well throw this in there just because.
So San Jose Sharks' Patrick Marleau broke the all-time record of most NHL regular seasons games played in a few days back and they had this little video to commemorate it. It just so happens that James was the one narrating the video (which makes sense since the Sharks come out to Seek & Destroy as their entrance theme when they hit the ice in every home game and the majority of Marleau's games played was with the Sharks).
https://www.nhl.com/video/marleau-breaks-howes-record/t-277350912/c-8116673
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https://loudwire.com/game-show-contestant-metallica-questions/
Interesting! I got a 7/10 :)
Same, was it also 3, 7 & 9 that you didn't know? :lol
Those are the three I got wrong. Seems like a pretty straightforward selection of questions for Mastermind!
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James Hetfield IS Metallica. Their entire sound comes from his right hand and his voice.
100%. More important to his band than close to every other musician.
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I got 8/10. I was sure #3 was someone else. Never heard of correct answer. Not in a million years would I have gotten #7 (although I've read the guy's name a bunch of times). The rest were super easy (although I could see someone saying the other Bay Area baseball team for #9).
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I've decided to go through Metallica's discography for the first time. I've only ever heard a few songs from this band, and that was all within the last year, so almost all of their music is going to be completely new to me. I'm pretty interested in how I'll feel about some of these albums, because I've heard a lot of mixed feelings about some of their later albums.
About half an hour ago, I listened to Kill 'Em All. It was consistently enjoyable overall; nothing particularly amazing on my first listen, but there were a lot of moments I liked. Highlights of the album for me were "(Anesthesia) - Pulling Teeth", "Seek & Destroy", and "Metal Militia". I'd say I'm impressed with the album, so I'm kind of excited as to what Ride the Lightning will be like, since that appears to be widely considered one of the best Metallica albums, if not the best Metallica album.
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Actually Master of Puppets is considered the best Metallica album, but if you rule that one out, most will agree that Ride is up there. It's also my personal favorite album.
Anyway, debating what's better between Ride and Master is like debating between a Ferrari and a Rolls Royce, or who's hotter between Scarlet Johansson or Gal Gadot. Your personal preference will decide, you're about to listen to some utter masterpieces.
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Well you're in for a ride (no pun intended). It will be interesting to see what you think of the Load/Reload albums from the mid 90s.
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As someone that doesn't see the "legendary" in RTL and MOP - they don't suck, but they're not my two favorites in the catalogue - I'm going to be watching this intently. I'm curious too.
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Enjoy! There is a GIANT leap in maturity from Kill to Ride. I think you’ll enjoy the catalog!
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The first five albums (Kill ‘Em All, Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, ...And Justice For All, and The Black Album) are amazing. There’s a dip in quality with Load and ReLoad but there’s a lot of good music between the two. St. Anger is definitely the low point for the band. Death Magnetic is good but it’s an exhausting listen due to its length and brickwalled production. Hardwired...To Self Destruct is a return to form, and has elements of their previous albums with some new twists. And don’t even bother with Lulu.
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The first five albums (Kill ‘Em All, Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, ...And Justice For All, and The Black Album) are amazing. There’s a dip in quality with Load and ReLoad but there’s a lot of good music between the two. St. Anger is definitely the low point for the band. Death Magnetic is good but it’s an exhausting listen due to its length and brickwalled production. Hardwired...To Self Destruct is a return to form, and has elements of their previous albums with some new twists. And don’t even bother with Lulu.
Well said. I agree with all of this, spot on!
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I don't think Load is a dip in quality from Black Album. Nothing on Black Album reaches the level of Bleeding Me or The Outlaw Torn.
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I've decided to go through Metallica's discography for the first time. I've only ever heard a few songs from this band, and that was all within the last year, so almost all of their music is going to be completely new to me. I'm pretty interested in how I'll feel about some of these albums, because I've heard a lot of mixed feelings about some of their later albums.
About half an hour ago, I listened to Kill 'Em All. It was consistently enjoyable overall; nothing particularly amazing on my first listen, but there were a lot of moments I liked. Highlights of the album for me were "(Anesthesia) - Pulling Teeth", "Seek & Destroy", and "Metal Militia". I'd say I'm impressed with the album, so I'm kind of excited as to what Ride the Lightning will be like, since that appears to be widely considered one of the best Metallica albums, if not the best Metallica album.
Enjoy it dude. Metallica were my absolute fave band for about 10 years. They've been edged out by Coheed and Cambria now but I still adore them. Glad you dug Kill 'em All. The next four albums are just unbelievable really. As much as I'd agree that Load and Reload are a drop off in quality (only because the first five are sooooo good), their 90s output is still really strong. You HAVE to include Garage Inc and the S&M live album as you go through their discography. Honestly those two albums are just something else. I'd rank them over the majority their catalogue!
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Actually Master of Puppets is considered the best Metallica album, but if you rule that one out, most will agree that Ride is up there. It's also my personal favorite album.
Anyway, debating what's better between Ride and Master is like debating between a Ferrari and a Rolls Royce, or who's hotter between Scarlet Johansson or Gal Gadot. Your personal preference will decide, you're about to listen to some utter masterpieces.
Oh yeah, I've heard a lot of praise for Master of Puppets as well. I'm very interested in that album as well.
Well you're in for a ride (no pun intended). It will be interesting to see what you think of the Load/Reload albums from the mid 90s.
Honestly, I think in a weird sort of way I'm anticipating these albums and the ones following it a little more than the ones that are highly praised. But I'm interested in all of them, of course, seeing as I'm marathoning their main discography.
Enjoy it dude. Metallica were my absolute fave band for about 10 years. They've been edged out by Coheed and Cambria now but I still adore them. Glad you dug Kill 'em All. The next four albums are just unbelievable really. As much as I'd agree that Load and Reload are a drop off in quality (only because the first five are sooooo good), their 90s output is still really strong. You HAVE to include Garage Inc and the S&M live album as you go through their discography. Honestly those two albums are just something else. I'd rank them over the majority their catalogue!
I can thank S&M for being the main thing that got me interested in Metallica, so I'll totally be giving that a listen at some point. I'll probably listen to it (along with Garage Inc.) after finishing the studio discography.
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Well you're in for a ride (no pun intended). It will be interesting to see what you think of the Load/Reload albums from the mid 90s.
Honestly, I think in a weird sort of way I'm anticipating these albums and the ones following it a little more than the ones that are highly praised. But I'm interested in all of them, of course, seeing as I'm marathoning their main discography.
Load/Reload is to me their absolute peak of creativity and musicianship. It has the same fate as Iron Maiden's No Prayer For The Dying and Megadeth's Cryptic Writings in that vocal members of the fanbase have declared them inferior and it's somehow become acknowledged as the truth. The albums are incredibly dense from a production standpoint with tons of well-written songs and melodies. But it's not thrash so they must not be great, right? The first 5 are all excellent too, but there is no quality drop-off with the Loads despite what others say.
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Count me among those who consider the Load era to be an incredibly creative era for Metallica. The only reason neither of those albums is at the top of my list is because my favorite material is split up across the two albums and mixed in with some stuff that doesn't work as well for me. If I put my favorite songs from those sessions onto a single disc, that easily would be my favorite Metallica album.
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Count me among those who consider the Load era to be an incredibly creative era for Metallica. The only reason neither of those albums is at the top of my list is because my favorite material is split up across the two albums and mixed in with some stuff that doesn't work as well for me. If I put my favorite songs from those sessions onto a single disc, that easily would be my favorite Metallica album.
There's a Metallica podcast called Metal Up Your Podcast (great title!), https://metalupyourpodcast.simplecast.com (https://metalupyourpodcast.simplecast.com). They have a 2-part interview with Mike Gillies, a sound engineer who worked with Metallica in various capacities from The Black Album through Hardwired. He goes in-depth on both the Load/Reload and St. Anger albums. Some pretty cool minutiae.
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https://loudwire.com/game-show-contestant-metallica-questions/
Interesting! I got a 7/10 :)
Same, was it also 3, 7 & 9 that you didn't know? :lol
Those are the ones I didn't know as well. I guessed on 2 and got it right. I'm not sure if I learned the answer previously, but he just gives off that impression.
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The first five albums (Kill ‘Em All, Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, ...And Justice For All, and The Black Album) are amazing. There’s a dip in quality with Load and ReLoad but there’s a lot of good music between the two. St. Anger is definitely the low point for the band. Death Magnetic is good but it’s an exhausting listen due to its length and brickwalled production. Hardwired...To Self Destruct is a return to form, and has elements of their previous albums with some new twists. And don’t even bother with Lulu.
Well said. I agree with all of this, spot on!
I’ve been waving the Metallica flag since I’m three years old and I heard Master of Puppets for the first time. They’re my first and greatest musical love.
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Bought Ride the Lightning off the new release rack when I was 15 years old. It was the heaviest thing I had ever heard in my life, and I played it til the grooves wore out of my record. Used to have the original Creeping Death/Garage Days picture disc, and a promotional glow in the dark Fade to Black 12” single...but they were stolen during my wild years.
I was waiting in line for MoP. We heard they had been blowing Ozzy off the stage (to point that the rumors were that it was a repeat of the VH/Black Sabbath shows of 79 and people were still chanting for more Metallica when Ozzy took the stage). We thought those rumors were awesome and bought our tickets to the Ozzy show in hopes that we could boo him off the stage and get more Metallica....but Ozzy canceled several shows (supposedly laryngitis) and Metallica were off the tour. That was my failed final opportunity to see Cliff alive. :censored
Saw them on the Puppets tour headlining made up for it. I was also at both shows that were filmed in Seattle for the Live Binge and purge set.
I’ll never forget being in my first thrash band when the guitarist brought home the black album and we listened to it together in the band practice room for the first time. The first reaction was: “What....the F***....is this???? I can *DANCE* to this!!!! WHAT THE F***???”
I grew to appreciate it later, but it’s still their first album with skippable tracks. I was pleasantly surprised by the low number of votes it got in the “best Metallica album” thread.
I love St. Anger. It is the “junkyard dog” to the black album’s “groomed French poodle”.
And Lulu is not the garbage people say it is. It’s a very different animal, and it’s not Lou Reed’s finest hour. But there are some shining moments. I think Junior Dad in particular is a fantastic epic.
Just my two cents.
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I listened to Ride the Lightning just now. Honestly, I'm not sure what to say about this one at the moment. It's a good album, I know it's something I like, but I just don't have anything specific to say about this one. But I'm not worried about that. I've only listened to the album once, and there's been quite a few albums I've listened to before where I don't think too much of it my first time, but come to love it upon giving it a lot more listens (BTBAM's Colors and PT's The Incident are the best examples of this). Highlights of the album for me were "Trapped Under Ice" and "The Call of Ktulu". And like with KEA, there were a lot of individual moments I enjoyed. For as little as I have to say about the album, I can at least say that there's nothing I dislike about it, so I think that's a good sign that I'll grow to enjoy it more on repeated listens.
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I listened to Master of Puppets just now. Out of the three albums I've heard thus far, I would say this one's my favorite. The first two were pretty good, but Master of Puppets is even better. In addition to being consistently good, the title track was particularly great. Awesome song all around. Besides that, "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)" and "Disposable Heroes" were also highlights of the album for me. Three albums in, and I'm glad I decided to do this marathon. There's a lot of cool stuff that I've found, although there's not much I've heard that I'd call amazing (except Master of Puppets, that song really stands out in terms of quality). I'm really anticipating the next two albums now, and I hope I like them just as much as MoP if not even more!
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Revenge319,
Are you listening once and then moving on or giving each album a few listens? Just curious.
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Revenge319,
Are you listening once and then moving on or giving each album a few listens? Just curious.
I'm listening to them once and moving on, but I do plan to return to each one. I'm just doing it this way so I can get through the discography quicker. I think first impressions are important, but unless I absolutely hate an album on the first listen or something like that, I always intend to return to it. I actually gave KEA another listen sometime between my first listen of that and RTL, and I plan on listening to RTL and MOP in-between listening to the others for the first when I get the opportunity, and I'll be doing the same for the other albums I listen to as well.
I understand that this might seem like an odd way of going about it (I can understand how getting to understand an album first before moving on would be a better idea), it's just something I've done for other artists in the past when discovering their discography for the first time, so I'm used to it. I think it's just when I'm interested in seeing everything an artist has to offer, I want to hear all their albums in succession and then return to each individual album to really absorb, as opposed to absorbing one album at a time before moving on to the next. And when it's an artist I'm particularly liking, I suppose I'm just excited (or perhaps impatient) to get to the next album.
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So, I've been listening to St. Anger and while I definitely get the complaints about the way it sounds, it's definitely mastered hot as hell and the snare drum sounds like someone beating on a trash can, but musically I definitely dig it.
Sounds like a bonus disc from The Black Album only the guy mastering it spilled coffee on the console and didn't realize he pushed the gain on the main outs up to 11 :lol
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God, that snare :rollin
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I just finished ...And Justice For All. I'd say it's on-par with Master of Puppets, but I'm unsure which one left a stronger impression on me. I really like the run from "Blackened" to "One", and "To Live Is To Die" was a pretty cool instrumental, too. "The Shortest Straw" was kind of a low point; it was good, but a bit too repetitive. But other than that, this was a very good album and I definitely want to revisit this one.
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It's great to hear how you are finding this journey dude. My experience of exploring Metallica's catalogue will always be one I hold dear.
They were the first band I truly obsessed over. I really savoured every album. I'd been exposed to The Black Album by my older brother LOADS when it was released. He was 16 and I was 8. That album was played a lot, and it all seeped into my musical DNA. Then in like 2002, a work colleague brought The Black Album into work one day and after not hearing it for years I realised I knew every song!
I bought the album like a week later and listened to it for months, just that one Metallica album. There was this Kerrang Legends magazine that came out at the time documenting the bands history. I devoured it and spent ages agonising of which order to purchase the rest of their albums. I ended up getting Ride next and then spent months with that album. I then bought Master/Justice simultaneously and again just listened to those two albums, analysing it all. Finally I got Kill 'em All and ventured onto Garage Inc and S&M. By this point it was like mid 2004, and at that point they were pretty much the only metal band I listened to.
I miss the way you discovered music when you were younger and didn't have a thousand bands to try to keep up with. I could never devote the time to one band now, like I did back then. I can picture where I was the first time I listened to all those Metallica albums and they hold such a special place in my heart.
I know there's so much music out there Revenge, but if you can put time aside to really savour these albums I think you'll be glad you did.
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My way of discovering Metallica were through compilation tapes made by a classmate that was using me for his musical experiments :lol
On one hand it's cool to have lived in the cassette tapes era, on the other hand I never have an answer for those "what's the first album you heard from your favorite bands?" questions because my introduction to hard rock and foreign music first (Bon Jovi, Guns n' Roses) and to heavy metal then (Iron Maiden, Metallica) came through these cassettes my classmate was doing for me, all greatest hits - like styled so there were songs from all the albums up until that time.
My first new album as a Metallica fan was Load so imagine the confusion from going to what I barely knew until then, to Load :D I mean, I became a metalhead as a teen in 1995, Load was out in 1996, my musical tastes and even knowledge of music were still in development then so I didn't have a "musical maturity" to properly appreciate whatever Load had to offer.
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I found Metallica back in 1988 in high school. I used to share and copy tapes with a friend of mine I used to drive home. One weekend, he let me borrow Operation: Mindcrime and ...And Justice For All. I sat in my room all Friday night with the volume cranked, listening to them from start to finish. Getting introduced to 2 of my favorite bands at the same time was amazing. From the beginning guitar tones of Blackened to the absolute brutality of Dyer's Eve, I just remember feeling like I was getting pummeled by AJFA. I was hooked. They were amazing on the Grammy Awards the following year (Fuck You, JT!). After that, I went back to get the rest of the back catalog. In 1991, I got the cassette single for Enter Sandman before the album came out (Stone Cold Crazy as the b-side) to tide me over until I was able to get my first album on release day with the Black Album.
As a side note... Fast forward to the 2007 Grammy Awards. I'm sitting there watching it on TV and that kid I used to drive home and share tapes with was now standing on the stage (sporting a big Rick Rubin beard) with the Dixie Chicks accepting a Grammy award. Turns out, he became a record engineer who has worked with Springsteen, Billy Joel, P!nk, Beyonce, The Black Crowes and others.
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My introduction to Metallica was the release of The Black Album. I was 10 years old in 1991, and it was my introduction to heavier music overall. I grew up with dad's 60s rock singles, so it was quite a departure for me with that kind of music. Like I said in the "Favourite Metallica album" thread, I rank TBA as my #1 and a lot of it has to do with nostalgia. A couple of years later I got Load when it was released. I even bought the first single on CD, Until It Sleeps, before the album. So between 1991-1996 the only Metallica I knew was TBA. It wasn't until the late 90s that I discovered their 80s albums and really enjoyed them too.
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I discovered Metallica when I was three years old. My mom was finishing up my bath while my dad was cleaning up dinner. He was listening to Master of Puppets while cleaning and my mom took me out of the bathroom as the melodic interlude of the title track came around. It’s my first true musical memory and I’ve been a die-hard Metallica fan ever since.
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First listen was Master Of Puppets, but being in a Maiden/Rainbow/Deep Purple/MSG/Sabbath mode, the vocals were a let down. First album I heard in full was ...And Justice, which I liked, but there were still problems with the vocals. Then The Black Album and James was actually SINGING. That's the first I bought, and I've bought almost everything since. They are a band I respect more than I like.
By the way, TAC, "Ronnie Rising" is from a Dio tribute record, and was also released on the Hardwired... bonus CD.
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Thank you. I figured it out. :)
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My introduction to Metallica. . . .
Ride the Lightning was released during the summer between my junior and senior years of high school. My best friend bought it without having heard anything -- probably because he thought the cover looked cool. He was a cassette guy, so we were able to listen to it right away. To say I HATED it would be an understatement. Could not stand Fight Fire with Fire, including James's voice. The title track didn't suit me much better. Unfortunately, my friend liked the album a lot, so he insisted on playing it during our commute to and from school during our senior year. I think it wasn't until after graduation that I decided to give the album another shot and asked him to borrow it. I probably had heard Fade to Black on the radio enough that I knew the band was capable of making music I didn't hate. It clicked -- especially Creeping Death (although I never did embrace FFWF). This was around the time I started playing bass, and Fade to Black was one of the first songs I learned. I remember when MOP was released, and I remember being at work (Baskin Robbins in a mall) and hearing the news that Cliff had been killed. I was fortunate to see Metallica with Cliff opening for Ozzy just a few months before he died.
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I would go so far as to say that Mick Jagger sounds better now than he did 40 years ago.
That's a really low bar to clear.
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I discovered Metallica when I was three years old. My mom was finishing up my bath while my dad was cleaning up dinner. He was listening to Master of Puppets while cleaning and my mom took me out of the bathroom as the melodic interlude of the title track came around. It’s my first true musical memory and I’ve been a die-hard Metallica fan ever since.
Best anecdote ever! :tup
I discovered Metallica in the year 2000, with "I Disappear". Then, in 2003, MTV did their 'Icon' special, and I became a fan.
Last Metallica I bought was St. Anger, in 2019. I thought it was high time I listened to that album in full. Now it's my favourite.
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I probably became a fan around or before the release of reload. Maybe that’s why I don’t hate those two albums.
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The first time I heard Metallica was in 1983. The summer of 1983 was the summer between my 9th and 10th grades.
Sometime in 1983 the local rock radio station, 94 WHJY in Providence, had a DJ named Doug Frye who started a Heavy Metal Hour on Saturday nights at either 11 pm or Midnight. I remember when he started the show, and I used to record them each week. It was there that I first heard Metallica, Queensyche, and Accept, among others.
One night the show began with a song that had the most incredible intro. That song was Hit The Lights. I was blown away.
I ended up buying the cassette from 1-800 Hot Rock. I just did a google search of it, and there's a youtube commercial peddling 80's pop hits. The company I remember in 1983 was more metal oriented. I think it could've been an East Coast thing, because when I called, it was in New York. I ended up talking to the guy about bands like Talas and Anthrax.
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I discovered Metallica in the year 2000, with "I Disappear”.
Last recording with Jason. :'(
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I miss the way you discovered music when you were younger and didn't have a thousand bands to try to keep up with. I could never devote the time to one band now, like I did back then. I can picture where I was the first time I listened to all those Metallica albums and they hold such a special place in my heart.
I know there's so much music out there Revenge, but if you can put time aside to really savour these albums I think you'll be glad you did.
It is nice that I've been exposed to so many artists within the past year, though I agree that being able to really absorb one band's discography at a time was a great approach as well. I've listened to different albums from different artists in the past few months, but with a few exceptions, I haven't absorbed much because there's just so much I want to listen to. I know I want to savor these first four albums soon, and hopefully I can say the same about the rest of 'em.
Also, I've been reading everyone's stories here about how they got into Metallica, and I feel so boring in comparison. :lol I just got sent some songs, liked them, and then eventually decided to look up all their albums... and all this in 2021, at that! Oh, well... better late than never, right?
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Also, I've been reading everyone's stories here about how they got into Metallica, and I feel so boring in comparison. :lol I just got sent some songs, liked them, and then eventually decided to look up all their albums... and all this in 2021, at that! Oh, well... better late than never, right?
I think every way of getting into a band has its charm. What you are experiencing is actually pretty cool! Not focusing on specific albums or their importance, but all of the discography at once. And seeing (or hearing) for yourself which songs resonate with you.
I discovered Metallica in the year 2000, with "I Disappear”.
Last recording with Jason. :'(
Oh, yeah. Awesome song, by the way.
The M:I-2 soundtrack was my second CD ever. So, I grew up with Metallica being criticized a lot: for their position on piracy, for their approach with St. Anger, for the sound of Death Magnetic, etc.
Did people really hate them that much throughout the '90s? Or was it something that has been overblown in time?
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I discovered Metallica in the year 2000, with "I Disappear”.
Last recording with Jason. :'(
Oh, yeah. Awesome song, by the way.
The M:I-2 soundtrack was my second CD ever. So, I grew up with Metallica being criticized a lot: for their position on piracy, for their approach with St. Anger, for the sound of Death Magnetic, etc.
Did people really hate them that much throughout the '90s? Or was it something that has been overblown in time?
Not really overblown. Napster hate was a real thing. People just considered them rich assholes who were concerned with losing out on more money because of people "stealing" from them. In actuality (according to them), they were more concerned with the impact on newer/younger bands (who hadn't made any money yet) than themselves. Napster was just the surface of what really turned the music industry sideways - the internet. File sharing certainly hurt the revenue stream of a lot of artists. However, the internet and the new ways of getting people their music that were introduced played a larger part in things going crazy. At the time, most record contracts never included streams, downloads or other digital transfers of music when it came to compensating artists since it hadn't existed before. It's why artists like AC/DC and Def Leppard held out on releasing their music on the digital platforms for as long as they did. They didn't want to lose out on being properly compensated for their music. I'm down with that.
As for St. Anger and Death Magnetic, I'll only speak for myself. I can't really listen to St. Anger. The overly abrasive production style, along with the trash can snare sound, is simply not enjoyable to me. I'm sure I could be missing out on some hidden gems. I just can't get past the sound. And, I like the songs on Death Magnetic. However, I choose to listen to the two other mixes of the album I have over the released version - Guitar Hero Remix and Deceifer Remix. They have more of a dynamic spectrum to their sound quality. Death Magnetic is comparable to Rush's Vapor Trails to me. There are good songs However, the production is so compressed/brickwalled that I can't listen to them and really enjoy them the way they were originally released.
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I finished listening to The Black Album, meaning I'm already halfway through their discography! Well, I am planning on listening to S&M and Garage Inc. at some point, so maybe technically not halfway yet. Anyway, this album is yet another impressive one. What I really like about this album is how diverse it is compared to the first four. It's still dominantly metal, but there's some more unique material, like "The Unforgiven" which is the best song on the album for me (Hetfield's soft vocals sound way better than I expected). Other songs I really enjoyed were "Enter Sandman", "Wherever I May Roam", "Don't Tread On Me", and "Nothing Else Matters". While it's hard to rank the last three albums, I think in a way Metallica has gotten progressively better with each album. I'm more curious than ever as to what these next five albums have in store for me. Even if I end up not liking some of them, I can say with confidence that this marathon will have been worth it anyway for these first five albums alone.
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The Black Album just sounds huge. It is easily the album of theirs I've listened to most, and probably my most listened to album of all time (if I factor in the fact my older brother pretty much had it on constant repeat from 91-94).
I used to class it as my favourite all time album, obviously, but I just hardly revisit it now as I know it inside out.
This album though, has got to be the perfect gateway metal album. It is the album that converted countless thousands of kids to metal. I have lost count of the people who have told me that this album, or Enter Sandman as a song, got them into metal!
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Did people really hate them that much throughout the '90s? Or was it something that has been overblown in time?
Yeah, the "hate" / dislike was real. Different era, dawn of the internet, different mentality.... it was a combination of things.
As I said before, looking back I can see how I wasn't "musically mature" in 1996 when Load came out, I haven't really heard that much stuff to properly understand all the ins and outs of music. I discovered metal the year before, I enjoyed Creeping Death, Master of Puppets, One and the likes, and Metallica come out with Load. And the year later with ReLoad.
They also cut their hair, became big on MTV with specials dedicated to them.... yeah, looking back it all seems silly to focus on the looks, but definitively the general idea is that Metallica "sold out". Also Napster.... hindsight is 20/20, it was the dawn of the internet, were they right in retrospect? AT THAT TIME they came across as rich assholes persecuting kids.
Garage INC and S&M aside, it took them 6 years after ReLoad to make an album to "repair" the wrongs of Load / ReLoad, and what they came up with? St. Anger... ouch, ears bleeding. That was the nail in the coffin for many people, probably the same people they tried to win back with Death Magnetic.
As I said, looking back you can see how certain things were silly, but AT THE TIME, all that combination of change of style + change of looks + mainstream exposure + Napster was definitively a set of factors that brought Metallica to be considered asshole sellouts.
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Double post to justify better the situation: in the mid '90s there has been a tectonic shift in music. The '80s (and relative poofy hair) were over, grunge came and "killed" glam and that '80s brand of hard rock and metal, and so I would assume that people would look for guidance from "the gods". Let's remember the situation in the first half 90's: grunge reigning supreme, Black Sabbath were once again going through lineup changes with Ozzy and Dio gone, Bruce Dickinson left Maiden, Rob Halford left Priest, the power metal resurgence was yet to come.... me personally I was still figuring out my tastes, but I bet that in this scenario people were expecting Metallica to be their "saviors" and a reminder that classic metal was still goind strong, but all they got was a weird album and the change of style and the mainstream appeal (endorsed by MTV) and the Napster debacle. That probably was a factor as well.
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I finished listening to The Black Album, meaning I'm already halfway through their discography! Well, I am planning on listening to S&M and Garage Inc. at some point, so maybe technically not halfway yet. Anyway, this album is yet another impressive one. What I really like about this album is how diverse it is compared to the first four. It's still dominantly metal, but there's some more unique material, like "The Unforgiven" which is the best song on the album for me (Hetfield's soft vocals sound way better than I expected). Other songs I really enjoyed were "Enter Sandman", "Wherever I May Roam", "Don't Tread On Me", and "Nothing Else Matters". While it's hard to rank the last three albums, I think in a way Metallica has gotten progressively better with each album. I'm more curious than ever as to what these next five albums have in store for me. Even if I end up not liking some of them, I can say with confidence that this marathon will have been worth it anyway for these first five albums alone.
I'm having a hard time posting the link (I'm at work) but find the 2008 appearance on Jools Holland where they play Cyanide and Enter Sandman. If you don't know, the show - "Later with Jools Holland" - usually has four or five artists who are all in the same room, in a circle, and each plays in turn, with the biggest band getting, usually, two or three songs and the others, usually, one. During each act, the other acts usually sit or stand patiently waiting for their turn, and sometimes the camera will capture them. It's common to see them sitting on the drum risers and what not. During "Enter Sandman", they destroy the place. The other bands are clapping along, singing along, and, if memory serves, in one case actually PLAYING along. I've only ever seen that with Paul McCartney.
It's probably my favorite appearance on that show and I watch it a LOT (I used to download the audio from my cable box to rip it to my iPod, but I can't do that anymore).
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As someone who was a casual Metallica fan then, I saw the hate, but it always seemed to me to be something similar to what happened with REM and The Police. They were a niche band with a devoted following who got a little bigger, and most fans went along with that, albeit grudgingly, but then they hit a whole new plateau and the hard-core fans got resentful. That was compounded by the change in image - look, let's not beat around the bush, sexuality was still a little dicey in '95, '96. Halford had not come out yet, for example - and people were confused, and angry. I think the music was made to suffer for other things, but the backlash WAS real.
Add to that the Napster thing, since I don't think today we appreciate how much of a pariah the band - and Lars especially - became after that. It was hard to look at that as anything other than a money grab, even if he was right, and even if he did see the future accurately. I know I was so thrilled with Napster, and once I got broad band it was "kid, welcome to candy store". I had fake rules for myself - I didn't download anything I either didn't already have in some format (vinyl/cassette) or that was unavailable otherwise (I think I have about 25 versions of Raving And Drooling ("Sheep"), You Gotta Be Crazy ("Dogs") and Shine On You Crazy Diamond from their '74 tour floating around somewhere) - but it still smacked of running afoul of the ethos that Metallica stood for. I remember reading articles about Lars making cassettes of songs from Diamond Head and others early on, and I didn't see the difference, then.
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I finished listening to Load just now. Compared to what came before it, this is a step down in overall quality. It's somewhat inconsistent in terms of quality, too. There's some pretty good songs here (Until It Sleeps, Mama Said, The Outlaw Torn), but there were also a few tracks I didn't really care for. I'm not sure what the issue I have here is, exactly. The album cover and the first track make it seem like it'd be all overly edgy and stuff, which is something I don't usually like, but that doesn't seem to be a recurring thing for the whole album. I guess it's just that the songs aren't as strong as past albums were. I also feel like the album was just too long. Maybe if it was of the quality of the first three, I wouldn't mind, but it's 79 minutes and 14 songs that gave me the general impression of "it's okay". Like I said, there were some tracks I liked, I just found this to be weaker than everything else they've done thus far.
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Like I said, there were some tracks I liked, I just found this to be weaker than everything else they've done thus far.
Just wait for Reload, it's even worse :D
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I prefer Reload over Load these days. I just love how weird and experimental it gets, especially in the second half. There are some one-of-a-kind Metallica songs on that album for sure!
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I prefer Reload over Load these days. I just love how weird and experimental it gets, especially in the second half. There are some one-of-a-kind Metallica songs on that album for sure!
Where The Wild Things Are i wish got more appreciation.
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I prefer Reload over Load these days. I just love how weird and experimental it gets, especially in the second half. There are some one-of-a-kind Metallica songs on that album for sure!
Where The Wild Things Are i wish got more appreciation.
Yes. And Fixxxer. Glad they started to play Carpe Diem Baby though 👍
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I prefer Reload over Load these days. I just love how weird and experimental it gets, especially in the second half. There are some one-of-a-kind Metallica songs on that album for sure!
Where The Wild Things Are i wish got more appreciation.
Yes. And Fixxxer. Glad they started to play Carpe Diem Baby though 👍
Oh yea. Fixxxer is my fav but it gets a good amount of love. I rarely see any for WTWTA.
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Load is more consistent but I think Reload’s high points are better. Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man’s Lyric, and Fixxxer are especially amazing.
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Load is more consistent but I think Reload’s high points are better. Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man’s Lyric, and Fixxxer are especially amazing.
But the low points are even lower.
Better than Thou, Bad Seed (especially this one), Attitude and Slither are very bad and annoying. And Prince Charming rips off Creeping Death's chorus.
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It's all about Low Man's Lyric and The Unforgiven II on Reload.
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Load is more consistent but I think Reload’s high points are better. Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man’s Lyric, and Fixxxer are especially amazing.
But the low points are even lower.
Better than Thou, Bad Seed (especially this one), Attitude and Slither are very bad and annoying. And Prince Charming rips off Creeping Death's chorus.
Never realised that before so listening now... still can't hear any resemblance. What am I missing?
Also, Better than Thou :lol
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Load is more consistent but I think Reload’s high points are better. Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man’s Lyric, and Fixxxer are especially amazing.
But the low points are even lower.
Better than Thou, Bad Seed (especially this one), Attitude and Slither are very bad and annoying. And Prince Charming rips off Creeping Death's chorus.
Agreed with those being the weaker points, but I don’t mind them at all. I’ll still listen to them.
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Load is more consistent but I think Reload’s high points are better. Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man’s Lyric, and Fixxxer are especially amazing.
But the low points are even lower.
Better than Thou, Bad Seed (especially this one), Attitude and Slither are very bad and annoying. And Prince Charming rips off Creeping Death's chorus.
Never realised that before so listening now... still can't hear any resemblance. What am I missing?
The choruses uses, if not the same chords, the same progression. Go to Prince Charming's chorus and sing over it the chorus of Creeping Death, it works. It's not a perfect match but once I saw it pointed out and the similarities are there.
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It's all about Low Man's Lyric and The Unforgiven II on Reload.
I quite like The Unforgiven II, but I’ve noticed that both sequels are pretty polarizing on these forums.
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It's all about Low Man's Lyric and The Unforgiven II on Reload.
I quite like The Unforgiven II, but I’ve noticed that both sequels are pretty polarizing on these forums.
I think all three are great. Yes, I love the OG the most, but all three are strong in their own right!
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It's all about Low Man's Lyric and The Unforgiven II on Reload.
I quite like The Unforgiven II, but I’ve noticed that both sequels are pretty polarizing on these forums.
The Unforgiven II is a masterpiece and it's really an impossible toss wether which song is better, even though II owes a bit to the original so it gains points standing on the shoulder of the Black album song. III is a fine song on its own but the title is absolutely gratuitous, at least put the same intro on the song, come on.
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Load is more consistent but I think Reload’s high points are better. Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man’s Lyric, and Fixxxer are especially amazing.
Hmmm, I always thought it was the opposite. I was a huge fan of Load when it came out, as I had just gotten into the band the prior month, but even then I knew that there were a handful of songs that should have been chucked in the garbage can. While having some really good songs, it doesn't feel like ReLoad's highs are as high, but it's a pretty consistent listen outside of a couple of throwaways near the end (Prince Charming and Attitude).
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Weirdly, as a big Load fan, I've never heard Reload all the way through, nor could I hum a single thing from it. Might give it a spin soon
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Weirdly, as a big Load fan, I've never heard Reload all the way through, nor could I hum a single thing from it. Might give it a spin soon
Reload is a seriously underrated album.
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Weirdly, as a big Load fan, I've never heard Reload all the way through, nor could I hum a single thing from it. Might give it a spin soon
Reload is a seriously underrated album.
I was just listening to it this afternoon; my god I forgot how much I LOVE Low Man's Lyric. You can have Marianne Faithful, and I don't care for Fuel that much, but this is a solid record.
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Fuel is the only decent song on the album.
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Fuel is like a meme song at this point. I think as a song its fine but the vocal delivery of the chorus is what makes it ridiculous.
Reload does tend to get overlooked as an album. I never thought it was as good as Load but I would say it's better than any album they have done since.
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Reload feels a lot more experimental than Load, which I really appreciate. None of their experiments since have given me any sort of positive reaction, but Reload is one I enjoy very much. There's a really cool vibe that runs through it that feels almost like some kind of (monster) journey, which is a feeling I don't get from any of their other albums. Unforgiven 2 is a top 10 Metallica song easily and Wild Things, Fixxer, and Low Man are up there too. Prince Charming gets some shit from fans but I think that's one of the catchiest songs from that entire era.
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It's an impossible thing to actually measure, but I'd be curious if "ReLoad" was released with a whole new marketing scheme - instead of following the artwork and vibe of "Load" - if there would be a different (better?) reaction. I kind of think back that so many bands released records that could have been "re-" versions, but they didn't, and they're viewed today as stand alone records and we treat them as such.
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I think it would've sucked just as much.
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I was just listening to it this afternoon; my god I forgot how much I LOVE Low Man's Lyric. You can have Marianne Faithful, and I don't care for Fuel that much, but this is a solid record.
The only time I saw Metallica was on the tour for that album, where they actually played Low Man's Lyric, so that was pretty sweet. We also got Bleeding Me from Load! :biggrin:
Fuel is like a meme song at this point. I think as a song its fine but the vocal delivery of the chorus is what makes it ridiculous.
Reload does tend to get overlooked as an album. I never thought it was as good as Load but I would say it's better than any album they have done since.
Absolutely.
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Listened to Reload today. After the first four songs I skipped to Low Man's Lyric (which I enjoyed) and stopped there.
It does feel like Load, and I appreciate the variety. The band sounds natural. But the songs feel like leftovers from Load to me and there was some serious wincing in the Action house. (James' vox on Fuel, Faithful on TMR - how the fuck did THAT get released?! :lol )
So not a complete atrocity but I doubt I'll be back to it again.
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No love for Devil's Dance??? Really??? It's the best song on the album for me.
Yea the Faithful part on TMR is unnecessary, but I like the song. The rest meh.
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Ah, yeah. I quite liked DD. Had some jaminess.
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(James' vox on Fuel, Faithful on TMR - how the fuck did THAT get released?! :lol )
Oh crikey. Not looking forward to hearing your thoughts on St Anger :lol
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:lol The wtf was for Marianne Faithful. James wasn't that bad.
I know St Anger well. Bought it on the day of release, for my sins. It's just Reload I missed for some reason. :)
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What's with Lars and always crashing on the down beat? It makes it difficult to follow, and I'm just tapping along with my hands.
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That's been confusing me for years as well.
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That's been confusing me for years as well.
Trapped Under Ice is a pretty straightforward metal song, but I can never follow it because of Lars. Maybe it's the riff and I can't place where it ends or it's just Lars crashing at the wrong time. Disposable Heroes is another one with constant downbeat crashes. That one is a little easier to follow though.
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The two metallica songs I always struggle with are Battery and Blackened. I KNOW what the main Battery riff is supposed to sound like, and once the vocals come in, it's easy to follow, but when it's just the riff by itself, I always switch the on/off beats in my head. I do the same with blackened, mostly because the first time the drums come in without kick, it's confusing because the snare isn't on the downbeat even though it really sounds like it is.
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Lars frequently jumps onto upbeats and downbeats at random on the 80's albums and his cymbal placement has always been a bit odd, but he's managed to develop a style that is most definitely unique to him, so that's the most important thing. I love the turnaround that he creates in the riff after the solo in Blackened by switching the beat placement and I feel like many other drummers would not have done that.
His tendency to accent the snare hits on his hi-hat and excessive fills really grate on my ears whenever I hear him live nowadays though.
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Those are the things that made me fall in love with Metallica from the very beginning.
I can’t remember a time when I wasn’t fascinated by odd rhythms, strange patterns, anything that was outside a normal, straight forward beat.
Early on in my love of music, I begin to realize that songs that kept a very even straightforward rhythm could be very catchy, but they would get old very quickly. The more a song kept me guessing, the longer I had to take to try to figure out what on earth they were doing, the harder it was to tap out on the steering wheel...the more I adore it.
Sometimes I think Lars was doing it just to mess with the listener. And that’s exactly what I loved about it.
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I like that he (used to) make interesting choices. Battery and Blackened are good examples. The over-use of just blatting the snare grates on me these days.
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I like that he (used to) make interesting choices. Battery and Blackened are good examples. The over-use of just blatting the snare grates on me these days.
I agree that he used to make interesting choices, but I think there are much better examples. Though, as Jammin pointed out, him changing the on/off beats in the middle of Blackened was very cool. I do wonder how much of this is James though. If you watch the behind the scenes stuff, you see Lars, sometimes, trying to be experimental (for better or worse) but James always saying he just wants a strong beat. I know Lars is rather creatively lazy live, but I do wonder how much more interesting his studio parts would be if he were given free reign. Maybe not so much these days, I dunno. But I feel like there's some creativity in there that is often pushed down.
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The thing that I always took from Lars' drumming, especially back in the day, was that you could feel his enjoyment through his playing. It was endearing to hear him play drums.
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Just finished listening to Reload. It wasn't bad, but as a whole, I didn't necessarily find it to be good, either. There were a couple tracks I kinda liked ("The Unforgiven II" and "Where the Wild Things Are") but the rest I found to be decent at best and very mediocre at worst. There were some really weird moments, mainly in the first two songs. And by "weird", I don't mean that in a good way... Despite its length, the album didn't feel as long as Load did, which is something. Yeah, I came away from this one not really caring much. I wouldn't call it bad, but it's easily my least favorite so far. I'm keeping an open mind, but I will admit that I am beginning to get just a little bit concerned regarding the albums coming up. Looks like I'll just have to find out how I feel about those when I get to them.
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Word to the wise: if you listen to St. Anger and you'll find it sucks, don't bother with further listenings. It really does suck. There are no hidden gems, stuff to pay attention to.... nothing like that. You listen to it and you like it? fine, that's cool! you have a very unusual album to enjoy. You listen to it the first time and your impression is "My ears are bleeding and this is a steaming pile of crap"? don't bother with second or third chances, it will only make your ears bleed more.
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Yeah St. Anger is the definite low point, but the albums after that improve with each one.
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Word to the wise: if you listen to St. Anger and you'll find it sucks, don't bother with further listenings. It really does suck. There are no hidden gems, stuff to pay attention to.... nothing like that. You listen to it and you like it? fine, that's cool! you have a very unusual album to enjoy. You listen to it the first time and your impression is "My ears are bleeding and this is a steaming pile of crap"? don't bother with second or third chances, it will only make your ears bleed more.
I vividly remember listening to the CD for the first time and was like “...the fuck is this? Awful”, then 6 months later throwing on the “rehearsal” DVD (not knowing what the content really was) and actually enjoyed it.
At its core St Anger is just a musical stream of consciousness from a (at that time) broken and beaten down Hetfield. It is, indeed, an unusual album.
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Yeah, St. Anger will be the low point for them. A lot of variables really worked against them (Jason leaving, Napster controversy, James going into rehab, etc.) when they made that album that makes it really hard for them to say, "We enjoyed making St. Anger and we hope fans do enjoy listening to it."
This album is basically their form of therapy after everything they went through in the early 2000s, a howl to try to persevere out of the dark atmosphere they were in. I also heard from various outlets that this is their approach to Nu-Metal and honestly, in comparison to high points of other nu-metal bands at the time, I don't think they hit the mark well here from what I recall.
I guess I'll take a relisten and see what happens.
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Well, I listened to St. Anger. And yeah, it wasn't exactly good... but I've heard far, far worse than this album. At the very least, I'd listen to this over Reload. I actually thought "Frantic" was pretty good. Well, musically it's good. The lyrics get so ridiculous that it's legitimately hilarious to me. Besides that, though, most of everything else ranged from decent to boring. I think there were a couple other tracks I sort of liked (I think "The Unnamed Feeling" was one), but it's still a big step down from mostly everything else I've heard from the band. Also, I'm not really one to notice production flaws in music (all of Dream Theater's albums sound fine to me), but with this album, the production does sound weird. There was one song near the end that sounded like it wasn't edited whatsoever. Also regarding the production, everyone was right; the snare does sound like a trash can. That seriously made me start laughing when I first turned on the album and heard it.
So yeah, kind of decent album with some comedic value but not much interesting besides Frantic. That's my first-impressions verdict. I can totally understand why people hate this one, though. But personally, when I compare any of these songs or even the album as a whole to songs I've heard that I would consider the worst I've ever heard... It's nowhere near that bad.
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Looks like there's going to be a super deluxe version of the black album released later this year. Given that the album, sonically-speaking, still sounds great, wonder if they'll do anything to it? Probably a remaster which will just result in some additional loudness leading to some brickwalling.
As for bonus material, I suppose it'll be a couple of live shows along with the demo tracks that made their way onto the singles. Might be a good time to remaster A Year and a Half and include that, too, although they could probably make a good amount of money by releasing that separately.
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Looks like there's going to be a super deluxe version of the black album released later this year. Given that the album, sonically-speaking, still sounds great, wonder if they'll do anything to it? Probably a remaster which will just result in some additional loudness leading to some brickwalling.
As for bonus material, I suppose it'll be a couple of live shows along with the demo tracks that made their way onto the singles. Might be a good time to remaster A Year and a Half and include that, too, although they could probably make a good amount of money by releasing that separately.
Yep, this is why I never order new remasters or remixes of albums that sounded great in the first place until I read a lot of reviews by consumers first, as far too often nowadays the remaster or remix is a big step down in overall sound quality. It boggles the mind, but I will digress and not go off on that tangent... :lol :lol
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But the last 4 Blackened Remasters all sound great. I bought all the basic digipacks of Kill Ride, Master and Justice so I could finally get rid of my tatty old plastic jewel case editions. ***
Only problem is they are not all the same size so don't look uniform in a rack :sadpanda:
I'm not OCD but it does bug me a bit.
Anyway - looking forward to the Blackened remasters of Metallica Load Reload St Anger and DM to see if they use it as an excuse to finally sort out the quality of it.
I know they quietly put out a much cleaner version so it'll probably be that mix and remastered. We shall see !
Back when DM originally came out - I said they would definitely put out a cleaner version and not make a big deal out of it - which is kind of what they did.
They just one day announced there was a new Mastered for iTunes edition of the album ( because iTunes requires non clipping masters ). And it replaced *all* digital editions.
Even the official download on their website. The fans get a cleaned up version - and they save some face by not announcing it's a cleaner version - just that
" iTunes requirements for quality are yadda yadda ". Typical Lars speak ;)
*** And a lot of people on the Metallica message board are certain ( I think so too ) that they ever so slightly upped the bass guitar. But this might just be that the rhythm
guitars are less "woofy" now and the bass can poke through a bit more. Either way I enjoyed AJFA for thie first time listening to the new Master.
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I just finished listening to Death Magnetic. I don't know what happened between St. Anger and this one, but I think this album is pretty good. Definitely a step up from the last three, that's for sure. I don't mind at all when a band tries new things, but this album feels like they went back to making stuff like their first four albums, and I think the album benefits a lot from it. While there weren't any standout tracks I can think of, they were all good. It was quite refreshing after the relatively lower quality of the past three albums. Also, apparently this album is infamous for having bad production/compression, but it sounded just fine to me. I have mentioned before that I don't usually notice album production, though, so maybe that's just me.
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I just finished listening to Death Magnetic. I don't know what happened between St. Anger and this one, but I think this album is pretty good. Definitely a step up from the last three, that's for sure. I don't mind at all when a band tries new things, but this album feels like they went back to making stuff like their first four albums, and I think the album benefits a lot from it. While there weren't any standout tracks I can think of, they were all good. It was quite refreshing after the relatively lower quality of the past three albums. Also, apparently this album is infamous for having bad production/compression, but it sounded just fine to me. I have mentioned before that I don't usually notice album production, though, so maybe that's just me.
The problem is actually the mastering. The original was brickwalled to absolute fuck. And then a bit more on top of that. If you listened to the original release, I would contend there is no way you couldn't have heard it. The easiest way to describe it is like a white noise on top of the music. It's possible you listened to the quietly released 'mastered for iTunes' version (which I've personally never heard) or the version taken from the Guitar Hero 3 stems. The latter was certainly much better.
As another reference point, try Baroness by Purple (the original Vapor Trails by Rush, of all bands, is also cited in this way but I think Purple is even worse). If you can't hear the brickwalling there, make an appointment with an audiologist :biggrin:
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I just finished listening to Death Magnetic. I don't know what happened between St. Anger and this one, but I think this album is pretty good. Definitely a step up from the last three, that's for sure. I don't mind at all when a band tries new things, but this album feels like they went back to making stuff like their first four albums, and I think the album benefits a lot from it. While there weren't any standout tracks I can think of, they were all good. It was quite refreshing after the relatively lower quality of the past three albums. Also, apparently this album is infamous for having bad production/compression, but it sounded just fine to me. I have mentioned before that I don't usually notice album production, though, so maybe that's just me.
The problem is actually the mastering. The original was brickwalled to absolute fuck. And then a bit more on top of that. If you listened to the original release, I would contend there is no way you couldn't have heard it. The easiest way to describe it is like a white noise on top of the music. It's possible you listened to the quietly released 'mastered for iTunes' version (which I've personally never heard) or the version taken from the Guitar Hero 3 stems. The latter was certainly much better.
As another reference point, try Baroness by Purple (the original Vapor Trails by Rush, of all bands, is also cited in this way but I think Purple is even worse). If you can't hear the brickwalling there, make an appointment with an audiologist :biggrin:
I went and listened to a side-by-side comparison of the original and a remaster, and while I did notice the white noise-sounding stuff in the original, it didn't really feel that noticeable to me. That said, that kind of noise is certainly something I wouldn't want to hear in music, so I can totally understand why people would have a big problem with it.
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It's an impossible thing to actually measure, but I'd be curious if "ReLoad" was released with a whole new marketing scheme - instead of following the artwork and vibe of "Load" - if there would be a different (better?) reaction. I kind of think back that so many bands released records that could have been "re-" versions, but they didn't, and they're viewed today as stand alone records and we treat them as such.
Reload was where I got off the Metallica bus. I was fine with Load being a new, experimental direction, but when Reload, the new tracks on Garage Inc., and "I Disappear" all sounded similar to Load, it changed my perspective from "something different they tried" to "I guess this is what Metallica is now". I checked out St. Anger as I heard it was a new direction, but didn't care for it. I haven't even bothered with anything since.
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I mean, Reload is pretty clear about the fact that it comes from the same songwriting session as Load, even from the title alone, so I wouldn't have expected it to be that different, and wouldn't have concluded that "this is what Metallica is now" since it's literally still just one session.
Virtually everything since St. Anger has been an attempt to recreate the songwriting approach and basic musical direction of their 80s output, so if that's what you like from Metallica, that material would probably interest you more than the 1996-2003 output.
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I just finished listening to Death Magnetic. I don't know what happened between St. Anger and this one, but I think this album is pretty good. Definitely a step up from the last three, that's for sure. I don't mind at all when a band tries new things, but this album feels like they went back to making stuff like their first four albums, and I think the album benefits a lot from it. While there weren't any standout tracks I can think of, they were all good. It was quite refreshing after the relatively lower quality of the past three albums. Also, apparently this album is infamous for having bad production/compression, but it sounded just fine to me. I have mentioned before that I don't usually notice album production, though, so maybe that's just me.
If you listened to it online - they've cleaned it up since 2008 and put a better mix online. If you listened to the original CD it still sounds fuzzy and brittle.
Also I feel that Reload gets all the hate as it was the 2nd of the two.
Reload is overall faster and heavier than Load and if it came first I think it would be more loved.
As it came second it "must be all the leftovers LOL"...
It's my opinion that Load has weaker duds than Reload like Cure, Ronnie, Poor Twisted Me. Load mostly has a crappy second half apart from Wasting My Hate, Mama Said and Outlaw.
Reload doesn't really have a weaker second half.
And yes - if you took the 7 best songs from each album - you'd have one that would have matched 'The Black Album'.
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Something like this?
Fuel
The Memory Remains
The House Jack Built
The Unforgiven II
Ain't My Bitch
Bleeding Me
Devil's Dance
Until It Sleeps
King Nothing
The Outlaw Torn
Where the Wild Things Are
Hero of the Day
Low Man's Lyric
Fixxxer
The problem with these albums is that the best songs are either epics or slowish songs, so you'd get an unbalanced album, to make it more coherent you'd have to drop one of the long songs, an album like this is heavy to digest, but surely has its charm.
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It's an impossible thing to actually measure, but I'd be curious if "ReLoad" was released with a whole new marketing scheme - instead of following the artwork and vibe of "Load" - if there would be a different (better?) reaction. I kind of think back that so many bands released records that could have been "re-" versions, but they didn't, and they're viewed today as stand alone records and we treat them as such.
Reload was where I got off the Metallica bus. I was fine with Load being a new, experimental direction, but when Reload, the new tracks on Garage Inc., and "I Disappear" all sounded similar to Load, it changed my perspective from "something different they tried" to "I guess this is what Metallica is now". I checked out St. Anger as I heard it was a new direction, but didn't care for it. I haven't even bothered with anything since.
Give Death Magnetic and Hardwired each a shot, I'm sure you'll find something there to your liking.
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Something like this?
Fuel
The Memory Remains
The House Jack Built
The Unforgiven II
Ain't My Bitch
Bleeding Me
Devil's Dance
Until It Sleeps
King Nothing
The Outlaw Torn
Where the Wild Things Are
Hero of the Day
Low Man's Lyric
Fixxxer
The problem with these albums is that the best songs are either epics or slowish songs, so you'd get an unbalanced album, to make it more coherent you'd have to drop one of the long songs, an album like this is heavy to digest, but surely has its charm.
This is a great track list, but everyone sleeps on 2x4 and Prince Charming. The main riff of 2x4 is one of their ballsiest and wouldn't sound out of place on a Pantera album (in fact, someone already did this mash-up - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnOdymeOE8w). And Prince Charming is so damn catchy with a really cool bridge. Someone pointed out the similarity to Creeping Death and it does seem to use the Creeping Death song structure as a blueprint similar to Enter Sandman/King Nothing but less obvious.
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If I had to combine Load and Reload into a single album, there is no way I would exclude Prince charming. That is a really good song.
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Something like this?
Fuel
The Memory Remains
The House Jack Built
The Unforgiven II
Ain't My Bitch
Bleeding Me
Devil's Dance
Until It Sleeps
King Nothing
The Outlaw Torn
Where the Wild Things Are
Hero of the Day
Low Man's Lyric
Fixxxer
The problem with these albums is that the best songs are either epics or slowish songs, so you'd get an unbalanced album, to make it more coherent you'd have to drop one of the long songs, an album like this is heavy to digest, but surely has its charm.
Eh, ...And Justice for All is loaded with longer songs, many of which are way too long, so it's not like that would be a first for Metallica. ;)
If we are combo-ing Load and ReLod into one album, Bleeding Me, The Outlaw Torn and Fixxxxxxer are all must-haves, IMO. On the other hand, Fuel and The Memory Remains can both be dumped in the garbage can that Lars used as his snare on St. Anger.
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I finished listening to Hardwired... to Self-Destruct just now. It was alright, but I've heard better from Metallica. I think my only real issue with the album is that it felt like there wasn't much variety. A lot of the songs kind of sounded the same. There were some good highlights, like "Dream No More" and "Spit Out the Bone", but I've heard more exciting and interesting stuff from past albums. Maybe it'll grow on me more as I give it more listens, but right now my impression is that it's good, but not great.
Well, with that I've completed this marathon of sorts of Metallica's 10 studio albums. I'll get around to S&M and Garage Inc. at some point, but as far as the main studio albums go, I've heard 'em all at least once. Overall, I'm really glad I decided to do this. A lot of the music was really good, and I'm even glad I heard the albums I ended up not caring for all that much. It was just a good experience overall, and I'll definitely be spinning at least most of these again and again (I don't know how much I'll be willing to go back to Reload, but I digress). I wish I could've done this a lot sooner, but hey, better late than never. Maybe one of these days I'll have to do another one of these first-time marathons for bands that I've always wondered about but never heard before because I felt pressured to not listen to them (probably for The Beatles, specifically). Since I like ranking stuff, I'll do a first-impression album ranking for Metallica. (Well, I've heard a couple of their albums multiple times already, but you get the idea.)
1. Master of Puppets
2. ...And Justice For All
3. Ride the Lightning
4. The Black Album
5. Kill 'Em All
6. Death Magnetic
7. Hardwired... to Self-Destruct
8. Load
9. St. Anger
10. Reload
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Everyone piles on the St Anger snare sound - but i've heard way way worse from like hip hop / rnb / metal drummers and they don't get a single mention.
I actually think the Snare sound on St Anger adds to the overall vibe. It's just that it's not gated. It's meant to sound raw and in your face.
Danny Carey has his snare turned off a lot - the intro to Ticks and Leeches being a good example. But because the snare is gated - you don't get that boing & ring to it.
Whatever. The lol trash can argument will never stop. Nor will Lol napster. Even though they were right at the time. And everyone thinks it was about money -
- when in fact it was about people releasing un-finished Metallica songs without their knowledge.
My Top 3 are probably Master - Black / HTSD - Ride. I really don't care for AJFA at all. But although I do enjoy it - SA is easily last.
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Worst song on Load/Reload?
I'm going for Bad Seed.
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Worst song on Load/Reload?
I'm going for Bad Seed.
It's hard to pick, but I tend to agree. It's not only a bad song, it's even irritating and annoying.
Also Cure is in competition for this one, same annoying style.
Poor Twisted Me is "just" a throaway song, it just drags and it's kinda useless but it doesn't actually annoy you like Cure or Bad Seed.
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Bad Seed has a good groove. PTM and Ronnie are both just meh.
All the worst songs are on Load though. Not Reload.
Reloads worst song - Slither is still better than PTM.
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I think I'm going with Cure. However, I dislike Poor twisted me just as much. There are too many average tracks on both records, though.
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I love pretty much every song on both Load & Reload but I wouldn't mind if Slither or Carpe Diem Baby didn't exist.
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Had this thought about Metallica today; has any band ever created an album as great as Ride the Lightning at such a young age? James and Lars were 20 at the time. They had already released a groundbreaking album at 19. But RTL is leaps and bounds of growth and maturity and quality. I mean even the Beatles weren't releasing their best stuff until their late 20s. RTL is generally considered a landmark of an album by the metal commnity, just wondering if you can think of other bands that had landmark albums when the key members were 20 or younger?
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Had this thought about Metallica today; has any band ever created an album as great as Ride the Lightning at such a young age? James and Lars were 20 at the time. They had already released a groundbreaking album at 19. But RTL is leaps and bounds of growth and maturity and quality. I mean even the Beatles weren't releasing their best stuff until their late 20s. RTL is generally considered a landmark of an album by the metal commnity, just wondering if you can think of other bands that had landmark albums when the key members were 20 or younger?
I have that same thought often but about MoP. These guys created an enduring metal classic at age 23 that was so well-developed and executed.
One band I can think of is Dimmu Borgir with Enthrone Darkness Triumphant. A symphonic black metal classic and I'm pretty sure they were only about 19-20 when it was written.
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Alexi Laiho was like 17 when he wrote Children of Bodom's debut, so like 19 when Harebreeder came out I think. Hatebreeder is not revered in the way Ride is, obviously, but it is a hell of a fucking album!
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I finished listening to Hardwired... to Self-Destruct just now. It was alright, but I've heard better from Metallica. I think my only real issue with the album is that it felt like there wasn't much variety. A lot of the songs kind of sounded the same. There were some good highlights, like "Dream No More" and "Spit Out the Bone", but I've heard more exciting and interesting stuff from past albums. Maybe it'll grow on me more as I give it more listens, but right now my impression is that it's good, but not great.
Well, with that I've completed this marathon of sorts of Metallica's 10 studio albums. I'll get around to S&M and Garage Inc. at some point, but as far as the main studio albums go, I've heard 'em all at least once. Overall, I'm really glad I decided to do this. A lot of the music was really good, and I'm even glad I heard the albums I ended up not caring for all that much. It was just a good experience overall, and I'll definitely be spinning at least most of these again and again (I don't know how much I'll be willing to go back to Reload, but I digress). I wish I could've done this a lot sooner, but hey, better late than never. Maybe one of these days I'll have to do another one of these first-time marathons for bands that I've always wondered about but never heard before because I felt pressured to not listen to them (probably for The Beatles, specifically). Since I like ranking stuff, I'll do a first-impression album ranking for Metallica. (Well, I've heard a couple of their albums multiple times already, but you get the idea.)
1. Master of Puppets
2. ...And Justice For All
3. Ride the Lightning
4. The Black Album
5. Kill 'Em All
6. Death Magnetic
7. Hardwired... to Self-Destruct
8. Load
9. St. Anger
10. Reload
Are we pretending Lulu doesn't exist?
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I don’t think anyone, including the band themselves, consider LuLu a metallica album.
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I consider Metallica my #2 all time favourite band, and have easily listened to them more than any band, by a long shot. I still haven't brought myself to listen to Lulu :lol
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I don’t think anyone, including the band themselves, consider LuLu a metallica album.
I mean.... they were all involved? lol
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Are we pretending Lulu doesn't exist?
I was under the impression that Lulu wasn't a proper Metallica studio album, but rather just a collaboration project between Metallica and Lou Reed. I'm not really interested in listening to it anyway, based on how poorly received it was.
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Are we pretending Lulu doesn't exist?
I was under the impression that Lulu wasn't a proper Metallica studio album, but rather just a collaboration project between Metallica and Lou Reed. I'm not really interested in listening to it anyway, based on how poorly received it was.
You're under the right impression, that's all that ever was.
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Had this thought about Metallica today; has any band ever created an album as great as Ride the Lightning at such a young age? James and Lars were 20 at the time. They had already released a groundbreaking album at 19. But RTL is leaps and bounds of growth and maturity and quality. I mean even the Beatles weren't releasing their best stuff until their late 20s. RTL is generally considered a landmark of an album by the metal commnity, just wondering if you can think of other bands that had landmark albums when the key members were 20 or younger?
Not a band, but Taylor Swift released her second album, Fearless, when she was 18, and that won Album of the Year and is considered a pretty significant album of the last 15 years. :)
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Doesn't really count, because Page and Jones were experienced musicians at that point, but Plant and Bonham were 19/20 when recording Led Zeppelin I, and Ozzy and Tony were 21 when they recorded their debut.
I'm not arguing that it's not impressive what Metallica did, but I'm not putting Ride The Lightning up there with Led Zeppelin I and Black Sabbath.
EDIT: It's interesting; I've been looking up musicians and their birth dates... It's amazing to me to see where musicians fit into the larger time span. You've got a window of '42 to '45, where McCartney, Lennon, Jagger, Richards, Blackmore, Page, then you have this window from about '48 to '50: Plant, Bonham, Simmons, Iommi, Osbourne, Banks, Rutherford, Collins, Halford... Then you dig deeper, and you see that Page and Jones - in the first group - teamed up with Bonham and Plant - the second group. So did Jon Anderson - the first group and Squire - the second. Meaningless, I guess, but fascinating.
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What's amazing to me is to think about how prolific and influential the Beatles were, and then consider that they were broken up before Lennon or McCartney even turned 30. :eek :eek
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Bad Seed has a good groove. PTM and Ronnie are both just meh.
All the worst songs are on Load though. Not Reload.
Reloads worst song - Slither is still better than PTM.
I really want to like Slither, but the "Don't go looking for snakes" bit just really kills it for me. I love the intro riff for Ronnie, but it goes nowhere from there. Poor Twisted Me is by far the worst song from the Load era.
I do enjoy Cure and Bad Seed though.
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Had this thought about Metallica today; has any band ever created an album as great as Ride the Lightning at such a young age? James and Lars were 20 at the time. They had already released a groundbreaking album at 19. But RTL is leaps and bounds of growth and maturity and quality. I mean even the Beatles weren't releasing their best stuff until their late 20s. RTL is generally considered a landmark of an album by the metal commnity, just wondering if you can think of other bands that had landmark albums when the key members were 20 or younger?
Not a band, but Taylor Swift released her second album, Fearless, when she was 18, and that won Album of the Year and is considered a pretty significant album of the last 15 years. :)
You're right, not a band.
Now that I think about it, I seem to remember some 12-year-old releasing something awesome from his bedroom on Youtube . . . might as well include that.
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I like how you can't even escape Taylor Swift's name in Metallica threads these days
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Had this thought about Metallica today; has any band ever created an album as great as Ride the Lightning at such a young age? James and Lars were 20 at the time. They had already released a groundbreaking album at 19. But RTL is leaps and bounds of growth and maturity and quality. I mean even the Beatles weren't releasing their best stuff until their late 20s. RTL is generally considered a landmark of an album by the metal commnity, just wondering if you can think of other bands that had landmark albums when the key members were 20 or younger?
Not a band, but Taylor Swift released her second album, Fearless, when she was 18, and that won Album of the Year and is considered a pretty significant album of the last 15 years. :)
You're right, not a band.
Now that I think about it, I seem to remember some 12-year-old releasing something awesome from his bedroom on Youtube . . . might as well include that.
AC/DC, or UFO. I think Michael Schenker was 17 or 18 when he started writing Rock Bottom and Lights Out.
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I like how you can't even escape Taylor Swift's name in Metallica threads these days
Probably the most funny development this place has undergone in recent years.
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Worst song of the Load era? I have to go with Better Than You. Just nothing appealing about it at all, and a truly awful chorus. The other contenders would be Poor Twisted Me, which is just a nothing song, and Bad Seed, which has annoying elements of its own. I also do not like Carpe Diem Baby. I know some people do, but I just find it mildly irritating. Prince Charming is one that I barely remember but don't think I like. Wasting My Hate is kind of another nothing song.
I do like Slither; I actually think it's one of the sleeper songs on those albums. Cure sits right on the edge between good and annoying for me. I end up saying that it's not among the better half but it's not the worst.
One song that I haven't seen mentioned at all in the last couple of pages that I really think deserves more credit is Thorn Within. I think it flies under the radar because it's close to the end of a very long album and it's a stylistically unremarkable straight-ahead rock song in between two very unusual songs (Mama Said and Ronnie).
Something like this?
Fuel
The Memory Remains
The House Jack Built
The Unforgiven II
Ain't My Bitch
Bleeding Me
Devil's Dance
Until It Sleeps
King Nothing
The Outlaw Torn
Where the Wild Things Are
Hero of the Day
Low Man's Lyric
Fixxxer
This is a good list for a combined album. I have two playlists that I've kept for years with only a few changes, one at 78 minutes and the other at 110; I think the track order for both could be improved, but I'm happy with the selections. I listen to the short version more often, but the long version contains some other tracks I like to return to sometimes.
Short version:
1. Fuel
2. The Memory Remains
3. The Outlaw Torn
4. Mama Said
5. The House Jack Built
6. Until It Sleeps
7. Hero of the Day
8. Bleeding Me
9. Where the Wild Things Are
10. Low Man's Lyric
11. The Unforgiven II
12. Fixxxer
Long version:
1. Fuel
2. The Memory Remains
3. The House Jack Built
4. Until It Sleeps
5. Devil's Dance
6. Ain't My Bitch
7. Hero of the Day
8. Bleeding Me
9. Thorn Within
10. Where the Wild Things Are
11. Fixxxer
12. Mama Said
13. 2 x 4
14. King Nothing
15. Low Man's Lyric
16. Slither
17. The Unforgiven II
18. The Outlaw Torn
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Here’s my combined playlist. Total runtime is 76 minutes.
01: Fuel
02: The Memory Remains
03: Devil’s Dance
04: Until it Sleeps
05: King Nothing
06: Where the Wild Things Are
07: Bleeding Me
08: Hero of the Day
09: The Outlaw Torn
10: The Unforgiven II
11: Low Man’s Lyric
12: Fixxxer
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Here's my Load EP: Runtime..32 minutes
1. Ain't My Bitch
2. Fuel
3. Bleeding Me
4. Wasting My Hate
5. The Outlaw Torn
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I did an iTunes playlist for all the [Re]Load Ballads and it goes like this :
1. Hero Of The Day
2. Until It Sleeps
3. Mama Said
4. Carpe Diem Baby
5. The Unforgiven II
6. Where The Wild Things Are
7. Low Man's Lyric
8. Fixxxer
9. Bleeding Me
10. The Outlaw Ton
Runtime : 68 minutes.
Also - Unforgiven II is the best Unforgiven III. U3 is the worst by quite some distance - but it's still better than every song left off for the Beyond Magnetic EP.
Hate Train is ok as a B Side. Just A Bullet Away has a good riff , verse and middle section but it has zero chorus and no ending. Rebel of Babylon and Hell and Back are not album worthy at all.
The weird thing about the Beyond Magnetic EP - is that the band all say they were just left off Death Magnetic's final running order. Yet they sound so half arsed performance wise
and the production is different. I'm thinking that they were demoes - and they picked the 10 songs for Death Magnetic and worked on them. When Lulu was a huge mis-step
they were like " quick - release Beyond Magnetic - just master them as they are and put em out ". And they were never intended to be on the album hence the sloppier playing / singing
and unfinished nature / production.
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I see Lulu as a Lou Reed album - which just happens to have Metallica as the musicians. People completely over reacted to it. They'd obviously never heard Lou Reed before. Plus they acted like he was
the new permanent vocalist taking over from Hetfield and this was the official follow up to Death Magnetic. I've heard far worse albums - and FFS - it's not even the worst LOU REED ALBUM.
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The weird thing about the Beyond Magnetic EP - is that the band all say they were just left off Death Magnetic's final running order. Yet they sound so half arsed performance wise
and the production is different. I'm thinking that they were demoes - and they picked the 10 songs for Death Magnetic and worked on them. When Lulu was a huge mis-step
they were like " quick - release Beyond Magnetic - just master them as they are and put em out ". And they were never intended to be on the album hence the sloppier playing / singing
and unfinished nature / production.
From Wikipedia - Beyond Magnetic came out to coincide with the 30th Anniversary concerts, where the band played one unreleased song each night and then released them on an EP. They admitted that they are only demo production.
Beyond Magnetic is a 2011 EP by American heavy metal band Metallica. It was released to coincide with the band's 30th anniversary shows, in which they released a new song for all four days of the shows.
The band stated the following about the EP:[5]
During the Death Magnetic album sessions in 2007 and 2008, we originally recorded 14 songs. When it came time to pick the songs for the final album, we decided on 10 songs that you've all come to know over the last three years... Some of you may have heard bits and pieces of those other songs on 'Mission Metallica' (remember 'Mission Metallica'?!) or heard rumors about them during the recording process, and wondered, 'What ever happened to those other four songs???.' We kept them in the vault and decided to pull them just for this special celebration, so here are the four leftover tracks from the Death Magnetic sessions. They are ROUGH mixes, unfinished to their original degree of mixing from March '08. These four songs were released as a gift to our closest fans, the members of our Fan Club, to enjoy. Now they're being made available to you.
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Yes they say that they were Rough Mixes but elsewhere they say that they properly recorded all 14 songs for the final album - THEN chose the final running order.
which is weird as they don't sound as good performance wise as the 10 songs on DM. They sound more rushed.
I've seen other people mention this fact too.
You can say that once the final 10 songs were chosen - they then mastered and brickwalled those.
But ( i'm not the only one saying this ) the 4 songs on BM just sound unfinished compared. :)
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EDIT : What If They wanted to release the final 4 songs but after the Death magnetic production backlash they thought
" Well we can't release these 4 songs as distorted as DM - let's mix and master the demo versions and SAY they are the only versions we have ! "
Because in Metallica HQ they are set up to record album quality at the press of a button. They demo songs but they sound album quality right away.
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Worst song of the Load era? I have to go with Better Than You. Just nothing appealing about it at all, and a truly awful chorus. The other contenders would be Poor Twisted Me, which is just a nothing song, and Bad Seed, which has annoying elements of its own. I also do not like Carpe Diem Baby. I know some people do, but I just find it mildly irritating. Prince Charming is one that I barely remember but don't think I like. Wasting My Hate is kind of another nothing song.
I do like Slither; I actually think it's one of the sleeper songs on those albums. Cure sits right on the edge between good and annoying for me. I end up saying that it's not among the better half but it's not the worst.
One song that I haven't seen mentioned at all in the last couple of pages that I really think deserves more credit is Thorn Within. I think it flies under the radar because it's close to the end of a very long album and it's a stylistically unremarkable straight-ahead rock song in between two very unusual songs (Mama Said and Ronnie).
The funny thing is that Metallica won a Grammy for Best Metal Performance for Better Than You! I just always found that funny. They have never played it live either. It's an okay song for me.
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I did not know that! That's a yikes from me. I wonder what led to the selection of that song from among the Reload singles. I mean, Fuel was released the month before and it's so much better.
I'm listening to Better Than You now just to see if I missed anything. It's... I guess not as bad as I remembered? But there's nothing I find particularly appealing about it, and I still dislike the chorus.
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I see Lulu as a Lou Reed album - which just happens to have Metallica as the musicians. People completely over reacted to it. They'd obviously never heard Lou Reed before. Plus they acted like he was
the new permanent vocalist taking over from Hetfield and this was the official follow up to Death Magnetic. I've heard far worse albums - and FFS - it's not even the worst LOU REED ALBUM.
It is, in actuality, a Lou Reed album. According to Wiki, they were planning to record unreleased demos that were Reeds demos. And stumbled upon songs that were composed for a play entitled 'Lulu'. So they decided to record those 'Lulu' songs instead, as Lou felt Metallica would bring it to the next level.
Metallica fans, assumed it to be a Metallica project that would sound like Metallica, and those expectations were never meant, so they felt disappointed with the album. That's their fault.
I still haven't listened to it, but if it's lou reed, I won't likely enjoy it because I don't listen to Lou Reed much at all.
It's like slapping a catchy name on a bad product to make it sound better than it actually is. And Metallica is the catchy name and people took the bait. :lol
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Worst song of the Load era? I have to go with Better Than You. Just nothing appealing about it at all, and a truly awful chorus.
I agree. It's the only song from both Load and ReLoad I don't like. Mostly due to the dull chorus that is repeated over and over. The main riff is nothing to write home about either. I can't fathom how it won a Grammy.
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Anyone watch The-Art-Of-Guitar on YouTube? My mind was blown the other day. All these years I thought the section in Blackened at 5:32 had 2 different riffs, but it's in fact 1 due to Lars' timing. I even listened to the isolated track just to make sure, and it's indeed 1 riff the whole time. Fucking crazy.
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Anyone watch The-Art-Of-Guitar on YouTube? My mind was blown the other day. All these years I thought the section at 5:32 had 2 different riffs, but it's in fact 1 due to Lars' timing. I even listened to the isolated track just to make sure, and it's indeed 1 riff the whole time. Fucking crazy.
You’re talking about Blackened I’m guessing? Lars does the same sort of thing in Orion during the fast bass-wah part where he messes around with the beat to make it feel odder than it is. That’s a great YouTube channel and his explanation of the intro for Shortest Straw was new to me as well.
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Anyone watch The-Art-Of-Guitar on YouTube? My mind was blown the other day. All these years I thought the section at 5:32 had 2 different riffs, but it's in fact 1 due to Lars' timing. I even listened to the isolated track just to make sure, and it's indeed 1 riff the whole time. Fucking crazy.
You’re talking about Blackened I’m guessing? Lars does the same sort of thing in Orion during the fast bass-wah part where he messes around with the beat to make it feel odder than it is. That’s a great YouTube channel and his explanation of the intro for Shortest Straw was new to me as well.
Yeah, that would've helped wouldn't it? :blush
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I like how you can't even escape Taylor Swift's name in Metallica threads these days
Probably the most funny development this place has undergone in recent years.
:lol :lol :tup :tup
Regarding Load vs ReLoad, Load is better, but not by much. Its best songs are better than anything on ReLoad (Bleeding Me, King Nothing, and maybe The Outlaw Torn), but while Load goes off the rails with its inconsistency after Bleeding Me, ReLoad is a mostly consistent listen. There is only maybe one or two skippers on there for me, and songs like Devil's Dance, Fixxxer, Better Than You, Bad Seed, Low Man's Lyric and Carpe Diem Baby are all worthy. I can't say that Fuel, The Memory Remains or The Unforgiven II excite me, but they are solid and fine on the rare occasions I wanna spin ReLoad from start to finish. Load has four or five songs that make me immediately reach for the skip button, but that first half is money (tracks 1-7).
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Exactly right. The idea that Reload is "all the shit songs" is laughable and such a cliche thing to say.
When most of the worst songs on either album are on Load ironically.
And yes - Load is amazing for the first 7 songs. Then the consistency really plummets.
Load would have been a cracking 8 song 50 min album with the first 7 songs and then Outlaw.
Reload doesn't really dip substantially in the 2nd half.
As James said in Some Kind Of Monster - after the huge success of The Black Album - they believed they could make every riff into a song and they did. They wrote 27 songs
and all 27 songs made it onto an album. Although Metallica haters take that quote out of context as James saying " we thought we could make a piece of crap ..shine! " as being about
Load and Reload being the "pieces of crap". No. He meant that literally whatever they came up with - they used.
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The thing people usually remember is the standout tracks though. There's a lot of highly rated albums in general that happen to have a handful of the big songs by a band and that somehow compensates for the other half of the album having some lackluster stuff on it. Load definitely has more of the memorable songs on it even if Reload has some great ones too.
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I got Load & Reload when they came out. And back then there was no Internet to tell me " actually - you can't enjoy those albums - they're shit. "
And for everyone to go " ok thats my default position from now on ".
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I didn't need the internet to know they were shit.
Load is fine, if a bit long. Reload is a coaster.
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:lol A Coaster.
It confuses me how out of 27 songs - which were all written and recorded at the same time - the first batch they released are the ones everyone can admit to finding "ok"
and the second batch of songs they all wrote and recorded at the same time are PURE SHIT.
I wish there was some way of finding out what the reaction would have ben if Reload was released first. But we can't but I bet then Load would be considered
" All the shit ones ".
To me it's like going to a Car Factory - and the first 15 cars to roll off the production line are "Good" and the next 15 cars to roll off the production line are " FUCKING AWFUL"
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I believe Reload paid the price for Load's lukewarm reception.
Load came, at the time it was poorly received, too long of an album, too many lackluster songs, and even the best ones were a drastic change of style from what everyone knew before.
So when Reload came out and it was more of the same, and definitively didn't have a monster song in the old style to win people back, it paid for all of Load's sins and its own as well.
Imagine if The Astonishing was split as well - after sitting with the first disc the fan base would see, the year after, disc 2 of the album, which is shorter and without many of the good songs of disc 1.... people would shit way more on Disc 2 of The Astonishing if it was released one year later because it would be more of the same without even having a standout song.
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I believe Reload paid the price for Load's lukewarm reception.
Load came, at the time it was poorly received, too long of an album, too many lackluster songs, and even the best ones were a drastic change of style from what everyone knew before.
So when Reload came out and it was more of the same, and definitively didn't have a monster song in the old style to win people back, it paid for all of Load's sins and its own as well.
Imagine if The Astonishing was split as well - after sitting with the first disc the fan base would see, the year after, disc 2 of the album, which is shorter and without many of the good songs of disc 1.... people would shit way more on Disc 2 of The Astonishing if it was released one year later because it would be more of the same without even having a standout song.
That's an interesting comparison..The Astonishing.
:lol A Coaster.
It confuses me how out of 27 songs - which were all written and recorded at the same time - the first batch they released are the ones everyone can admit to finding "ok"
and the second batch of songs they all wrote and recorded at the same time are PURE SHIT.
I wish there was some way of finding out what the reaction would have ben if Reload was released first. But we can't but I bet then Load would be considered
" All the shit ones ".
To me it's like going to a Car Factory - and the first 15 cars to roll off the production line are "Good" and the next 15 cars to roll off the production line are " FUCKING AWFUL"
It's probably just a coincidence that Reload got the worst tracks. Other than Fuel, there's nothing else I can even really get through. Everytime a conversation comes up, I ask for ONE song from Reload to help me change my mind, and I always regret losing another 5 minutes of my life.
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"Low Man's Lyric"?
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Wait, are you telling me to check it out?
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"Low Man's Lyric"?
Dude doesn't like them. I, personally, love Load and Reload (minus a hand full of songs between them) but I get why others may not like them at all. No need to make up reasons for them or to assume they're not being genuine. Some people just have different taste. I recently learned in one of these threads that a good amount of people on DTF don't like Pain of Salvation. Weird to me, but it's all legit either way. I'm sure we all like something most other people dislike or dislike something most other people like.
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Wait, are you telling me to check it out?
Well, I'm assuming you already have. I guess everything is a matter of taste, but I think that song is something new and different for Metallica; certainly more than just a remnant riff that they tried to hang a song around. If you don't like it, you don't like it, but it's more than just filler, IMO.
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Wait, are you telling me to check it out?
Well, I'm assuming you already have. I guess everything is a matter of taste, but I think that song is something new and different for Metallica; certainly more than just a remnant riff that they tried to hang a song around. If you don't like it, you don't like it, but it's more than just filler, IMO.
Well I have heard it..sure, but I couldn't hum a single note from the album other that Fuel and The Memory Remains. Not one single note. So it'd be all new to me anyway.
Ok...I can't believe I'm going to do this...and I still may not :lol..but I just might give Reload a deep dive this week.
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Don't know if this has been mentioned before. But, has anyone A/B'd the guitar solos in "Suicide And Redemption" and "Atlas Rise"? They're pretty much the same exact solo but at different speeds. Someone pointed this out to me this week and I was shocked. It's not like you're talking about a song from KEA and a song from HTSD. They're on consecutive albums.
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Don't know if this has been mentioned before. But, has anyone A/B'd the guitar solos in "Suicide And Redemption" and "Atlas Rise"? They're pretty much the same exact solo but at different speeds. Someone pointed this out to me this week and I was shocked. It's not like you're talking about a song from KEA and a song from HTSD. They're on consecutive albums.
I saw a video on that. It's not the whole solo, but one specific lick which is....as best as I can tell....completely identical. I guess that's what happens when the method is to have Kirk just improv a lot and then make a solo out of the takes. I preferred it more when he actually composed stuff. But yea, when you improv 20 songs or whatever, you're going to end up repeating yourself a ton.
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I think my favorite six or so songs on Reload can compete with my favorite six on Load, with the caveat that The Outlaw Torn is the best song on either album by a good margin. But the group of Fixxxer, The Unforgiven II, The Memory Remains, Low Man's Lyric, Fuel and Where the Wild Things Are stacks up pretty well against the group of Outlaw Torn, Hero of the Day, Bleeding Me, The House Jack Built, Until It Sleeps and Mama Said. Gun to my head, I'd take the Load group, but it's not a runaway victory.
The difference really becomes apparent once you look at the weaker half of each album. Load still has Ain't My Bitch, 2 X 4, King Nothing and Thorn Within that aren't on my top six list, while choosing songs after the first six for Reload gets dire pretty quickly (Devil's Dance is good, Slither's decent, I guess, and then we're onto songs I don't like and songs I literally do not remember).
I can just make case for Load being maybe 10 songs deep—junk Poor Twisted Me, Wasting My Hate, Cure and Ronnie, and you have something pretty solid—whereas Reload is at absolutely most generous 8 songs deep, but really 7.
Well I have heard it..sure, but I couldn't hum a single note from the album other that Fuel and The Memory Remains. Not one single note. So it'd be all new to me anyway.
Ok...I can't believe I'm going to do this...and I still may not :lol..but I just might give Reload a deep dive this week.
If you're actually taking recommendations from the peanut gallery, I'd suggest listening to Fixxxer on its own. It comes at the end of an album you don't particularly like, which doesn't exactly prepare the ground for a warm reception.
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Wasting My Hate and Ronnie? Man, I love those two. The former is the most metal of the whole album and has a perfect riff. The latter is just the catchiest thing and the kind of Southern fried action I'd love to hear more of.
I'd drop Cure and Thorn Within, Cure being the one I'd drop fastest.
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Thorn Within is actually kinda good, the classic not stellar but very decent track that rounds up an album. I'd save it over Cure, Poor Twisted Me, Wasting My Hate and Ronnie pretty easily.
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Thorn Within is fantastic.
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I think Thorn Within is really good, by far the most unjustly overlooked song of the Load era.
I don't really like the vocal parts on Wasting My Hate. I get why people like Ronnie, and I used to have a bit of a soft spot for it, but over the years I've come to find it a bit annoying.
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Reload has Fuel. Devil's Dance ( Sad but Two ) Carpe Diem Baby. Prince Charming. Where The Wild Things Are and Fixxxer.
Those 6 songs compete with Loads Six best songs EASILY imo.
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Y’all are going to make me listen to ReLoad for the first time in like 15 years. I can’t even believe it.
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Y’all are going to make me listen to ReLoad for the first time in like 15 years. I can’t even believe it.
Yes, I've also committed to a deep dive to it as well. I'll give Fixxer a listen first before I hear it in context.
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I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.
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I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.
Master, Ride and Justice?
:D
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I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.
Blame meathead metal fans, some of whom were actually ticked off when Load came out and saw the band's new haircuts. :lol :lol
Load and ReLoad are good albums overall. Are they Ride, Master or The Black Album? Nope, but that is okay. That is an impressive 'best three albums' by any measure, and expecting a band to continue making albums at that high of a level is simply not realistic.
And before anyone asks, no, I do not consider ...And Justice for All one of their top three albums. It sounds like ass, the majority of the songs just go on too long (the songs are not progressive, it's just them jamming away endlessly for too long in most cases), and the overall songwriting was a major stepdown from its predecessor.
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I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.
Tell me about it! ;D
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I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.
Tell me about it! ;D
Agreed!
I tend to gravitate towards bands and artists that have distinct eras...
Take Bowie for instance...the man was a musical chameleon, and for as much as I love Ziggy or Aladdin Sane, I think Low and Black Star are his two masterpieces.
Queen is another good example...talk about a musical arc!
To me, Metallica has much more in common with bands like that than say, Slayer. (btw, I LOVE Slayer, but they are a totally different beast than Metallica).
I guess I'm happy that I can enjoy MOP and ReLoad equally, as they give me different shades of the same songwriters. Had Metallica continued on the trajectory they'd started on, I suspect there may have been diminished returns.
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I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.
I'm absolutely with you here. The only drawback to this era for me is that they used every song they had instead of concentrating on a smaller number of the best songs. My 78-minute best-of the Load era playlist would very easily be my favorite Metallica album. Even if you just took Load and removed the four weakest songs, which for me are Cure, Poor Twisted Me, Wasting My Hate and Ronnie, the remaining album would be a top three Metallica album.
And I should say that while these two being very long albums with a mix of material I love and weaker songs that I don't really enjoy keeps me from ranking either one of them as a top three Metallica album, I kind of think it's nice that they did put out so many songs, rather than running the risk of leaving some good stuff in the vault. One thing I notice in conversations about Load and Reload is that there are a few songs pretty much everyone agrees are among the best, like The Outlaw Torn and Fuel, but there's a lot of disagreement about the other songs. Just last page, I said I feel nothing for Wasting My Hate, but DoctorAction said he loves it. Meanwhile, he doesn't care for Thorn Within, but I think it's really good. There's something nice about the fact that all those songs are out there so that everyone can pick and choose their favorites, even if it means that the albums in running order are inconsistent and therefore weaker.
Load and ReLoad are good albums overall. Are they Ride, Master or The Black Album? Nope, but that is okay. That is an impressive 'best three albums' by any measure, and expecting a band to continue making albums at that high of a level is simply not realistic.
And before anyone asks, no, I do not consider ...And Justice for All one of their top three albums. It sounds like ass, the majority of the songs just go on too long (the songs are not progressive, it's just them jamming away endlessly for too long in most cases), and the overall songwriting was a major stepdown from its predecessor.
This is me but for Master of Puppets. (In other words, I put Ride, Justice and Black as my top three, and not Puppets.) To me, Puppets is actually the worst sounding 80s album in terms of production, and the songs are too riffy and not melodic enough. Disposable Heroes feels like eight minutes of chugging, while Frayed Ends of Sanity sings.
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I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.
I feel a lot of it may have to do with people's "jumping on" points. Keep in mind there were original fans who thought the band sold out when they released "Fade To Black". Imagine what those fans thought when they first heard "Hero Of The Day" or "Mama Said". Some fans like it when their favorite bands "stretch themselves" musically. Others like them to stay in the box where they started. How would OG Slayer fans react if Slayer put out an album like Reload?
For younger fans who may have either discovered the band when Load and Reload came out or even later, those two albums were probably more in line with what they had already been listening to. I'm not saying that all older fans hate Load and Reload. But, it's all relative. Personally, I started listening to Metallica in high school, when Justice came out. So, my tastes were still evolving. There are certainly songs on both L and ReL that I really like ("The Outlaw Torn", "Bleeding Me", "Mama Said"). But, there are also songs I can't listen to at all.
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You're definitively right, I lived through the Load era - actually the first album to come out once I became a fan - and back then, the dislike was widespread, in that time and age the combo of change of style, change of look and widespread MTV exposure (and toss in Napster as well) was a combination of elements that all worked against the album.
Remember also it was a time when "metal was dead", grunge was on the rise, the '80s were long gone, the giants of the genre were at a low point (Maiden, Priest, Sabbath), and Metallica rather than saving the genre they went full alternative.... it was a mess.
Of course years after the fact new fans approach the era with a more open mind and find the actual good in those albums, but back then the general consensus was "We lost Metallica, they sold out". Which people already thought with the Black Album, or when they did a video for One, or when they used acoustic guitars on Fade to Black like you said ;D
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I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.
Master, Ride and Justice?
Yup. For those of us who were actually there in the 80s, that 90s stuff totally lacked heaviness and intensity. Simple as that.
:D
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Also, another "fun fact" about their decision to use each and every single song of the Load/Reload sessions:
Load ran too long as an album, so they cut out one minute or so from the end of The Outlaw Torn, whose full version was eventually released as a B-side with the funny title "The Outlaw Torn (Unencumbered by Manufacturing Restrictions version)".
Yup, you read it right: they chose to cut the ending of a song that is often cited as one of the very best of that era, because apparently we needed at all costs to hear Cure and Poor Twisted Me ;D
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My first copies of both Load and Reload featured the shortened closing tracks. Could that be why?
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I won't give them too much grief for the decision to shorten The Outlaw Torn a tad to fit other songs since that was during that time period where artists everywhere were taking advantage of being able to get nearly 80 minutes on to a CD and putting as much as they could on there, after years and years of having to work around the constraints of vinyl, for instance. It was a learning curve, and the cycle came back around to where many now do focus on making the album as good as possible and without feeling the need to just fill up the whole album.
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You're definitively right, I lived through the Load era - actually the first album to come out once I became a fan - and back then, the dislike was widespread, in that time and age the combo of change of style, change of look and widespread MTV exposure (and toss in Napster as well) was a combination of elements that all worked against the album.
Remember also it was a time when "metal was dead", grunge was on the rise, the '80s were long gone, the giants of the genre were at a low point (Maiden, Priest, Sabbath), and Metallica rather than saving the genre they went full alternative.... it was a mess.
Of course years after the fact new fans approach the era with a more open mind and find the actual good in those albums, but back then the general consensus was "We lost Metallica, they sold out". Which people already thought with the Black Album, or when they did a video for One, or when they used acoustic guitars on Fade to Black like you said ;D
I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here, but... this whole attitude toward music is utterly bizarre to me. I wasn't alive in the 80s or much of the 90s, so I wasn't around back then, but whenever I read or hear about music fans during that era, it always sounds to me like a lot of people had a tribal mentality around musical style. By that I mean a mentality where it is very important to follow all the "rules" of the in-group of a particular genre of music—from musical style to clothes to hair to how you talk to the press—and where it's considered not just a difference of opinion or change of attitude when someone deviates from those rules, but a betrayal of the group—of the tribe.
To some extent I'm sure this mentality still exists today, especially in more underground genres, but it feels utterly alien to me. Like, I just can't imagine many people today getting mad over some musician's haircut. I think the closest equivalent in the 2010s of "Metallica sold out" is "Opeth went soft," but that was a far more dramatic shift in style that seems to have had less of a tribal backlash. I don't think I've ever seen personal hate directed at Mikael Åkerfeldt—mainly just disappointment from those who don't care for the new direction.
Anyway, I find that whole mindset really toxic and antithetical to creativity. Creative art doesn't come from doing exactly what the members of a tribal subculture surrounding your style of music want you to do. It comes from the artist finding his own inspiration and making his own judgments about what kind of art to make. Beyond that, it's just utterly wrong to treat musicians as though they belong to the fans and it's a betrayal if they do something the fans don't want them to do. They don't "owe" anything to the fans beyond dealing with them fairly and honestly in the sale of recorded music and concert tickets. (Similarly, the fans don't owe anything to the musicians beyond dealing with them fairly and honestly. They don't owe it to them to buy the new album if they don't like the new style.) They certainly don't owe it to the fans to take months of their lives to write and record music in a style that doesn't interest them anymore just because members of the subculture demand that you must always and exclusively make tr00 metal (within very narrow parameters) or you're a traitor. And it's hard for me to imagine how people get to the point of thinking that way about music. I think there are similar tribal trends in politics, and there I understand it a bit more (even though I still think it's really wrong) because politics can affect people's lives in dramatic ways, but I really don't get it in music.
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I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here, but... this whole attitude toward music is utterly bizarre to me. I wasn't alive in the 80s or much of the 90s, so I wasn't around back then, but whenever I read or hear about music fans during that era, it always sounds to me like a lot of people had a tribal mentality around musical style. By that I mean a mentality where it is very important to follow all the "rules" of the in-group of a particular genre of music—from musical style to clothes to hair to how you talk to the press—and where it's considered not just a difference of opinion or change of attitude when someone deviates from those rules, but a betrayal of the group—of the tribe.
To some extent I'm sure this mentality still exists today, especially in more underground genres, but it feels utterly alien to me. Like, I just can't imagine many people today getting mad over some musician's haircut. I think the closest equivalent in the 2010s of "Metallica sold out" is "Opeth went soft," but that was a far more dramatic shift in style that seems to have had less of a tribal backlash. I don't think I've ever seen personal hate directed at Mikael Åkerfeldt—mainly just disappointment from those who don't care for the new direction.
Anyway, I find that whole mindset really toxic and antithetical to creativity. Creative art doesn't come from doing exactly what the members of a tribal subculture surrounding your style of music want you to do. It comes from the artist finding his own inspiration and making his own judgments about what kind of art to make. Beyond that, it's just utterly wrong to treat musicians as though they belong to the fans and it's a betrayal if they do something the fans don't want them to do. They don't "owe" anything to the fans beyond dealing with them fairly and honestly in the sale of recorded music and concert tickets. (Similarly, the fans don't owe anything to the musicians beyond dealing with them fairly and honestly. They don't owe it to them to buy the new album if they don't like the new style.) They certainly don't owe it to the fans to take months of their lives to write and record music in a style that doesn't interest them anymore just because members of the subculture demand that you must always and exclusively make tr00 metal (within very narrow parameters) or you're a traitor. And it's hard for me to imagine how people get to the point of thinking that way about music. I think there are similar tribal trends in politics, and there I understand it a bit more (even though I still think it's really wrong) because politics can affect people's lives in dramatic ways, but I really don't get it in music.
*golf clap*
This is Post of the Year material. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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For the record, 425, I agree with you, I'm just reporting how it was back at the time. Surely there had been people who enjoyed the album for what it was, but that "Metallica sold out" thing was real.
Me personally, I had just became a metalhead the year before, I started to listen to foreign and heavy music with Bon Jovi and then Guns n' Roses, then upgraded from hard rock to metal with Iron Maide and Metallica, then onto Helloween and Blind Guardian. I didn't have that much musical background to understand all the nuances of what Metallica was trying to do.
I didn't outright hate Load and Reload, I tolerated them and enjoyed my favorite songs, but in a sense I "had to live" with them because that's what all they offered. I didn't have a much wider mentality that would make me too laugh at people being pissed off for a haircut. I listen to so much different stuff now, back then all I knew was power metal and classic heavy metal, and the only musical reference from New Jersey was Bon Jovi for me - and now I'm kicking myself for having discovered Bruce Springsteen 10-15 years too late. I just wasn't ready for what Metallica was trying to do, I liked the songs I liked, disliked the songs I disliked, and moved on, living with those albums because it was whatever was new from Metallica at the time.
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Tribal is an excellent way of explaining it. When I was in high school, there were “rockers”, “wavers”, and “rappers”....and the outliers obviously. But most belonged to one group or another, and if you listened to any music outside your “tribe”, that was “gay”.
Yes...it does seem extraordinarily silly now. But how many things look stupid when you’re an adult looking back at a group of teenagers?
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I remember something similar in my teenage years at school. I was part of the 'metal gang' but you also had the hip-hop/rap gang, you had the alternative gang and so on. It was very important to stay fairly true to the group you were in because you wanted a group of people to belong with and if you strayed outside that chances were you would end up the lonewolf in between classes and such.
But I think as we grow older, at least for the most part with some exceptions (like metalarchives) your brain tends to evolve and you realize there's good things to be found everywhere and the 'limitations' you put on yourself as a teenager to try and fit in only hurts yourself really.
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If you're actually taking recommendations from the peanut gallery, I'd suggest listening to Fixxxer on its own. It comes at the end of an album you don't particularly like, which doesn't exactly prepare the ground for a warm reception.
So I'm going to listen to the album, but I took you up on this and ran through Fixxxer.
Honestly, it's an 8 minute plod-a-thon. It stays at one pace the whole time. The chorus is ok, and works much better the third time around after the slow middle part, but as soon as the song shows some life, it ends right away.
I couldn't ever imagine myself listening to this on my own. There's really nothing there. It just feels way underdeveloped.
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I can see that. I listened to Fixxxer the other day and came away thinking it wasn't quite as good as I remembered, although I still liked it. There are probably a handful of songs from ReLoad that are much better.
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Fixxxer is probably tied with Carpe Diem Baby for best song on the album for me
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The funny thing is all the metal people saying that St Anger was better than Load & Reload " cause at least its metal "..
Which just shows that some people at least chose not to like The Loads simply cause they weren't And Justice For All.
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It took some time for Fixxxer to open for me. I sort of see it as a counterpart for The Outlaw Torn with a positive ending.
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You're definitively right, I lived through the Load era - actually the first album to come out once I became a fan - and back then, the dislike was widespread, in that time and age the combo of change of style, change of look and widespread MTV exposure (and toss in Napster as well) was a combination of elements that all worked against the album.
Remember also it was a time when "metal was dead", grunge was on the rise, the '80s were long gone, the giants of the genre were at a low point (Maiden, Priest, Sabbath), and Metallica rather than saving the genre they went full alternative.... it was a mess.
Of course years after the fact new fans approach the era with a more open mind and find the actual good in those albums, but back then the general consensus was "We lost Metallica, they sold out". Which people already thought with the Black Album, or when they did a video for One, or when they used acoustic guitars on Fade to Black like you said ;D
I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here, but... this whole attitude toward music is utterly bizarre to me. I wasn't alive in the 80s or much of the 90s, so I wasn't around back then, but whenever I read or hear about music fans during that era, it always sounds to me like a lot of people had a tribal mentality around musical style. By that I mean a mentality where it is very important to follow all the "rules" of the in-group of a particular genre of music—from musical style to clothes to hair to how you talk to the press—and where it's considered not just a difference of opinion or change of attitude when someone deviates from those rules, but a betrayal of the group—of the tribe.
It was absolutely that way, and extended to other things like hair and dress. The list of great guitar players that "might" have been in Kiss but just didn't "look the part" is as long as your arm (and instead we got Mark St. John. :tdwn).
I sort of dodged that bullet, because in high school I was sort of a chameleon (I lived near the hoods, I was in classes with the brains, and I played varsity sports with the rest of the jocks). That means, of course, I was not REALLY in any of them, but still. Though I'm surprised it was that strong for Load/Re-Load (since grunge already hit) it was very real. And, in my mind, very stupid. It's not like Kirk and James were Samson. For me, I WASN'T a hard core Metallica fan (I'm not entirely sure I had even heard RtL and MoP at the time I first heard TBA/Load/Re-Load) so for me it was MUSIC. And since I liked the way James was singing now - Hero Of The Day is a top five Met song for me - I liked those records more than I think most of you do.
But the wrath they endured was real and hardcore.
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And since I liked the way James was singing now - Hero Of The Day is a top five Met song for me - I liked those records more than I think most of you do.
Not like I spend much time thinking of James Hetfield's best vocals :P, but the verses to Hero of the Day are about the best his voice has ever sounded when it comes to nailing a melody.
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His vocals in the chorus of Until it Sleeps are really powerful. Really aggressive but melodic too.
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I'd rather hear bands change over the course of their long careers than stay mostly the same (Oasis, AC/DC). DT is kind of the exception to that but every album after SC (except Astonishing) has been kinda "by the book", not much difference musically, kind of predictable.
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James has always been one of the most underrated singers in rock music. The Load albums and Garage Inc. really showcase how great he can actually be.
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It took some time for Fixxxer to open for me. I sort of see it as a counterpart for The Outlaw Torn with a positive ending.
Yeah I thought of this while listening, but I didn't find Fixxxer to be in The Outlaw Torn's league.
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Which just shows that some people at least chose not to like The Loads simply cause they weren't And Justice For All.
Some people, sure. But Load was a 360 from Justice. If you were a fan of Justice and Metallica at the time, you'd have done a double take too.
Load has a ton of great tunes, and it sounds great, so I wouldn't behoove someone from liking Load. And for someone who came after the fact, it's easy to pick and choose what albums you (not YOU personally Kboy) like, and it's easy to see why someone would pick Load over Justice, especially if you're not a thrash fan.
For the record, 425, I agree with you, I'm just reporting how it was back at the time. Surely there had been people who enjoyed the album for what it was, but that "Metallica sold out" thing was real.
I was thinking that with The Black Album.
Oddly, I wasn't really thinking that when Load came out. It felt like an extension or progression from TBA.
I feel a lot of it may have to do with people's "jumping on" points. Keep in mind there were original fans who thought the band sold out when they released "Fade To Black".
Yup. This is true.
I'd rather hear bands change over the course of their long careers than stay mostly the same
Load is a quality album. I never felt Metallica was holding back or selling out with it. It wasn't the direction I was looking for, but I understood and respected it., And there's a few songs that I really like on it.
The haircuts never bothered me. I thought it was an interesting look. They just looked like people growing up. Their look never had any influence on me liking the music. I actually thought the photoshoot was cool.
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Which just shows that some people at least chose not to like The Loads simply cause they weren't And Justice For All.
Some people, sure. But Load was a 360 from Justice. If you were a fan of Justice and Metallica at the time, you'd have done a double take too.
Load was a 180 (a "360" would land you back where you started, so a "360" would be exactly the same thing). But yeah, there were lots of things that Metallica could have done that wasn't AJFA but was still good. The folks who don't like the Loads don't like them because they kinda suck (subjectively speaking).
For the record, 425, I agree with you, I'm just reporting how it was back at the time. Surely there had been people who enjoyed the album for what it was, but that "Metallica sold out" thing was real.
I was thinking that with The Black Album.
Oddly, I wasn't really thinking that when Load came out. It felt like an extension or progression from TBA.
Yeah...TBA was the "sellout" album. I remember hearing Sandman for the first time and thinking it sounded like a dumbed down version of the band for people who didn't like Metalica. For me, Load was "two strikes and you're out." It was an indicator that a band I loved was abandoning me as a fan. I returned the album to the store, and the only Metallica album I've bought since then was the original S&M.
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The Black Album > Load > ...And Justice for All
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Load was a 180 (a "360" would land you back where you started, so a "360" would be exactly the same thing).
:facepalm:
Damn Geometry! :lol
Yeah...TBA was the "sellout" album. I remember hearing Sandman for the first time and thinking it sounded like a dumbed down version of the band for people who didn't like Metalica. For me, Load was "two strikes and you're out." It was an indicator that a band I loved was abandoning me as a fan.
I agree. It was like Empire (TBA) and then Promised Land (LOAD). It wasn't that Empire and TBA were bad albums. They weren't, and I liked them, but it got me very cautious about where they were going next.
PG, you'll appreciate this as I know you were a Helloween fan.
In the summer of 1991, I went to visit my college roommate who lived in Wayne NJ. It was during this trip that The Black Album was finally released. He lived near an awesome record store, Sound Exchange, which also dealt in imports. So I also bought Helloween's new album, Pink Bubbles Go Ape on Import. It wasn't available domestically. Anyway, I spent my drive back to Massachusetts rotating these two albums. I was at a loss for words..WTF happened to these two bands??
The good news is that both albums have aged remarkably well, each helped by what followed them.
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I wouldn't be too harsh in judging "meathead metal fans" for their reaction to Load, or even TBA for that matter.
It's easier to judge the merits of an album 10-20 years down the road, when you're a 30-40 year-old looking back over the career arc of a given band, instead of as an alienated HS teenager latching onto a band's music like your life depended on it. As the music is happening, you live through the ups and downs, the trials and tribulations of your idols, almost as if you were a fan of a sports team. There are euphoric wins and epic losses, and it can be tough to be objective about it as you're living through it.
Music doesn't happen in a vacuum. It takes on the meaning of the moment, whether it's the Anti-war/Vietnam movement of the 60s, the Punk movement of the 70s, Thrash of the 80s... Grunge of the 90s... I guess this is where the tribalism comes in. For better or worse, you defined yourself by it, with the connection going beyond just the music itself. And if you were a thrash fan, Metallica basically went over to the other side by glomming onto the musical and stylistic trappings of Alice In Chains and the other Grunge bands. It felt like a betrayal.
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I wouldn't be too harsh in judging "meathead metal fans" for their reaction to Load, or even TBA for that matter.
It's easier to judge the merits of an album 10-20 years down the road, when you're a 30-40 year-old looking back over the career arc of a given band, instead of as an alienated HS teenager latching onto a band's music like your life depended on it. As the music is happening, you live through the ups and downs, the trials and tribulations of your idols, almost as if you were a fan of a sports team. There are euphoric wins and epic losses, and it can be tough to be objective about it as you're living through it.
Music doesn't happen in a vacuum. It takes on the meaning of the moment, whether it's the Anti-war/Vietnam movement of the 60s, the Punk movement of the 70s, Thrash of the 80s... Grunge of the 90s... I guess this is where the tribalism comes in. For better or worse, you defined yourself by it, with the connection going beyond just the music itself. And if you were a thrash fan, Metallica basically went over to the other side by glomming onto the musical and stylistic trappings of Alice In Chains and the other Grunge bands. It felt like a betrayal.
Brilliant post.
Yeah, as I said, I agree too with those "fans shouldn't be so narrow minded and tribal in their judgement of music", but it's easy to say that 20 years after the fact. When you live it in real time, it's totally different, people's tastes can and will change. As I said before, my beginning with hard rock was Bon Jovi in 1995, and now in 2021 I'm cursing myself for not having started with ANOTHER New Jersey guy, Bruce Springsteen. And if you had me listening to Springsteen in 1996 when all I knew was Iron Maiden and Metallica, I would probably thought he was boring as hell and sucked balls. Now I wish I would have discovered him 10 years ago. People change and their music tastes too.
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The whole notion of "sell-out" is as old as time. To many, REM sold out with "Fables", then sold out again with "Out Of Time". The Police were legends who sold out with Synchronicity. There's ALWAYS a pocket group of fans, there from the beginning (or near to) that seem to want their favorite artists to maintain that level of "anonymity". As Jammindude about the Seattle scene. He'll tell you; Soundgarden sold out with Superunknown (maybe even with Badmotorfinger). Pearl Jam - coming from the ashes of the more traditionally grunge Mother Love Bone and Green River - was a sell-out from day friggin' one. Twisted Sister sold out with Stay Hungry. Bruce sold out with Born In The USA. Def Leppard sold out with Pyromania. Aerosmith sold out with Pump. U2 sold out with The Joshua Tree (or maybe Achtung Baby).
I don't get that mentality of expecting your artists to, basically, limit their art. What's the point of writing a song if no one hears it? It's human nature for someone that WANTS to get on a stage, that WANTS to have piopular songs, that WANTS people to buy their record and listen to their music... should somehow want to curb that once it's there for them. I know for me, I heard TBA and thought "wow, that's Metallica joining the heavyweights. Moving from a niche to a more central place in the pantheon of metal/hard rock music." That's a band growing and maturing and tapping into their real art.
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It took some time for Fixxxer to open for me. I sort of see it as a counterpart for The Outlaw Torn with a positive ending.
Yeah I thought of this while listening, but I didn't find Fixxxer to be in The Outlaw Torn's league.
I think Outlaw Torn just edges out Fixxxer, but both are really great closing tracks. The main riff on Fixxxer is so good. Hopefully they will play it live at some point. Kirk talked about rehearsing it in an interview a few years back, but they never played it.
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I wouldn't be too harsh in judging "meathead metal fans" for their reaction to Load, or even TBA for that matter.
It's easier to judge the merits of an album 10-20 years down the road, when you're a 30-40 year-old looking back over the career arc of a given band, instead of as an alienated HS teenager latching onto a band's music like your life depended on it. As the music is happening, you live through the ups and downs, the trials and tribulations of your idols, almost as if you were a fan of a sports team. There are euphoric wins and epic losses, and it can be tough to be objective about it as you're living through it.
Music doesn't happen in a vacuum. It takes on the meaning of the moment, whether it's the Anti-war/Vietnam movement of the 60s, the Punk movement of the 70s, Thrash of the 80s... Grunge of the 90s... I guess this is where the tribalism comes in. For better or worse, you defined yourself by it, with the connection going beyond just the music itself. And if you were a thrash fan, Metallica basically went over to the other side by glomming onto the musical and stylistic trappings of Alice In Chains and the other Grunge bands. It felt like a betrayal.
This. All of this.
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It took some time for Fixxxer to open for me. I sort of see it as a counterpart for The Outlaw Torn with a positive ending.
Yeah I thought of this while listening, but I didn't find Fixxxer to be in The Outlaw Torn's league.
I think Outlaw Torn just edges out Fixxxer, but both are really great closing tracks. The main riff on Fixxxer is so good. Hopefully they will play it live at some point. Kirk talked about rehearsing it in an interview a few years back, but they never played it.
I don't even remember a main riff in Fixxxer.
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It took some time for Fixxxer to open for me. I sort of see it as a counterpart for The Outlaw Torn with a positive ending.
Yeah I thought of this while listening, but I didn't find Fixxxer to be in The Outlaw Torn's league.
I think Outlaw Torn just edges out Fixxxer, but both are really great closing tracks. The main riff on Fixxxer is so good. Hopefully they will play it live at some point. Kirk talked about rehearsing it in an interview a few years back, but they never played it.
I think S&M2 was pretty much the only chance it had to be played but they (stupidly) omitted it. I wouldn't bet on any Reload tracks making live debuts because the band knows that fans would bitch and moan that they didn't get to hear For Whom The Bell Tolls for the 1000th time instead.
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I agree. It was like Empire (TBA) and then Promised Land (LOAD). It wasn't that Empire and TBA were bad albums. They weren't, and I liked them, but it got me very cautious about where they were going next.
That's a really good analogy, although, at the time, I liked Empire quite a bit. In retrospect, it's quite literally an every other song album. Give me only the odd numbered tracks, and you've got a world-beating, Van Halen-sized album. Unfortunately, Promised Land mostly followed the even numbered tracks and, while I didn't return it (as with Load), it was the last QR album I bought.
PG, you'll appreciate this as I know you were a Helloween fan.
In the summer of 1991, I went to visit my college roommate who lived in Wayne NJ. It was during this trip that The Black Album was finally released. He lived near an awesome record store, Sound Exchange, which also dealt in imports. So I also bought Helloween's new album, Pink Bubbles Go Ape on Import. It wasn't available domestically. Anyway, I spent my drive back to Massachusetts rotating these two albums. I was at a loss for words..WTF happened to these two bands??
The good news is that both albums have aged remarkably well, each helped by what followed them.
The first half of the '90s was littered with stories like this. That's one reason I was so over moon when I discovered DT in '92, and Fates Warning was really the only one of my favorite metal bands to maintain a high level at that time.
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Images & Words to the rescue for sure!!
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Reading through yet another "What if Mustaine had never been fired?" thread on Metal Archives and there was a nice point made there which I agree with. Most people are all like "Mustaine was awesome and Kirk is a poor substitute" - yeah Kirk deserves a bit of flack now but when you think about it, how many of Dave's solos can you hum versus Kirk's? When it comes to lead playing I take Kirk any day and he fit the role perfectly. He didn't need to be another James with the riffs and songwriting and lyrics. He perfectly added a melodic aspect which immediately paid dividends on the post-Kill 'Em All albums.
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Reading through yet another "What if Mustaine had never been fired?" thread on Metal Archives and there was a nice point made there which I agree with. Most people are all like "Mustaine was awesome and Kirk is a poor substitute" - yeah Kirk deserves a bit of flack now but when you think about it, how many of Dave's solos can you hum versus Kirk's? When it comes to lead playing I take Kirk any day and he fit the role perfectly. He didn't need to be another James with the riffs and songwriting and lyrics. He perfectly added a melodic aspect which immediately paid dividends on the post-Kill 'Em All albums.
Mustaine also never wrote a riff as iconic as the main Enter Sandman riff.
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Not as iconic....but the very term reeks of “popularity contest”.
Megadeth might be my least favorite (and IMO most inconsistent) of the big 4. But in spite of that, I still believe that Holy Wars is the greatest and most amazing song written by any of them.
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Not as iconic....but the very term reeks of “popularity contest”.
Megadeth might be my least favorite (and IMO most inconsistent) of the big 4. But in spite of that, I still believe that Holy Wars is the greatest and most amazing song written by any of them.
I wasn’t measuring better or quality. I was pointing out that Metallica would not be the biggest metal band in the world if Mustaine had stayed. That’s an impact. If it’s not something that matters to you, I get that, but the question was about the impact. That’s a huge one.
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* I still find it funny thinking about how many people have been SACKED from Metallica ( Mustaine ) versus how many people have been sacked from Megadeth.
Counting official albums onwards (Kill Em All etc) - Metallica has only lost two members in nearly 40 years. Hammett was in before they recorded KEA.
How many ex-members have Megadeth had from their debut album onwards ? Wiki has a whole article dedicated to it :biggrin: :biggrin:
* - What did 'old skool' Metallica fans think of Death Magnetic ? Seeing as it was touted as a return to the style of the first 4 albums?
Personally I think Hardwired is their best album since the Self Titled.
EDIT : I actually just checked and Megadeth's Second third and fourth studio albums all have a different line up :lol
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I loved Death Magnetic!!
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Me too but didn't enjoy the sound of it. I thought HTSD was miles better. Death Magnetic was the best album in years - but it was the first time they tried to sound like an older version of themselves.
Some of the arrangements and playing are a bit sloppy ( from everyone not just him ).
I think HTSD is better in most departments. The pristine production certainly helps.
HOWEVER. If Death Magnetic had the production of HTSD it would have been a COLOSSAL album.
Just imagine All Nightmare Long with the production value of Dream No More. :sadpanda:
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In other TALLICA NOOZ - I am looking forward to the Black Album reissue and to get the digipak to go along with my Blackened Kill Ride Master & Justice Reissue Digipaks.
I hope they havent messed with it too much - although the first 4 do sound really good. Not *JUST* louder and more tinny like some remasters.
I even enjoyed AJFA more.
It's the band's 40th this year so i'm still crossing my fingers for a new album. If not this year then very early next year.
Nearly all their Instagram pics are from HQ so they're obviously recording.
:)
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I know their excuse was that they wanted to retain the integrity of the original mix, but why oh why did they not do a total remix of AJFA when they had the chance and release both versions as part of the package? Such a missed opportunity
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I know their excuse was that they wanted to retain the integrity of the original mix, but why oh why did they not do a total remix of AJFA when they had the chance and release both versions as part of the package? Such a missed opportunity
Agreed. The closest thing to it, I think, is the "Rough mixes from the vault" CD from the AJFA Deluxe Box set. Maybe it's just my ears really wanting to hear the bass, but I feel there is a little more meat in there ;)
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I really enjoyed Death Magnetic, and still do. Yeah, the production is a bit of an issue, but it's a great record. I remember when it was coming out and it was being described as the missing link between Justice and the Black Album, and that is a good description of it.
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The whole notion of "sell-out" is as old as time. To many, REM sold out with "Fables", then sold out again with "Out Of Time". The Police were legends who sold out with Synchronicity. There's ALWAYS a pocket group of fans, there from the beginning (or near to) that seem to want their favorite artists to maintain that level of "anonymity". As Jammindude about the Seattle scene. He'll tell you; Soundgarden sold out with Superunknown (maybe even with Badmotorfinger). Pearl Jam - coming from the ashes of the more traditionally grunge Mother Love Bone and Green River - was a sell-out from day friggin' one. Twisted Sister sold out with Stay Hungry. Bruce sold out with Born In The USA. Def Leppard sold out with Pyromania. Aerosmith sold out with Pump. U2 sold out with The Joshua Tree (or maybe Achtung Baby).
And a not insignificant number of Rush fans felt the band sold out/changed for the worst in the mid 80s, whether it was Subdivisions or GUP that was the culprit; hell, IIRC, I remember the bass player from Rage Against The Machine in the Beyond The Lighted Stage documentary saying he couldn't stomach any Rush post-Hemispheres.
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I feel like in an almost ironic way, Load and Reload are Metallica's least 'selling out' albums. Something like Death Magnetic feels like their worst example of 'selling out' because it feels like they made it just to appease the fans.
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I feel like in an almost ironic way, Load and Reload are Metallica's least 'selling out' albums. Something like Death Magnetic feels like their worst example of 'selling out' because it feels like they made it just to appease the fans.
Exactly. It was the first album where they actively tried to remake an album in the style of Master Of Puppets. They even said as such.
" Moving back instead of forwards feels to me absurd " ;D
Also - as other people have said better than me :
" Nobody complained that they didn't adjust the mix when they remastered Kill Ride or Master - yet they expected them to turn up the bass in AJFA. Funny that..."
EDIT : "Selling Out" can also mean making the exact same album every few years cause you know it sells and you don't want to alienate a single fan / buyer.
AC/DC / Motorhead / Slayer etc etc
Metallica did the exact opposite of selling out with the 90s albums and especially St Anger. They did not give a fuck on that album.
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The whole notion of "sell-out" is as old as time. To many, REM sold out with "Fables", then sold out again with "Out Of Time". The Police were legends who sold out with Synchronicity. There's ALWAYS a pocket group of fans, there from the beginning (or near to) that seem to want their favorite artists to maintain that level of "anonymity". As Jammindude about the Seattle scene. He'll tell you; Soundgarden sold out with Superunknown (maybe even with Badmotorfinger). Pearl Jam - coming from the ashes of the more traditionally grunge Mother Love Bone and Green River - was a sell-out from day friggin' one. Twisted Sister sold out with Stay Hungry. Bruce sold out with Born In The USA. Def Leppard sold out with Pyromania. Aerosmith sold out with Pump. U2 sold out with The Joshua Tree (or maybe Achtung Baby).
And a not insignificant number of Rush fans felt the band sold out/changed for the worst in the mid 80s, whether it was Subdivisions or GUP that was the culprit; hell, IIRC, I remember the bass player from Rage Against The Machine in the Beyond The Lighted Stage documentary saying he couldn't stomach any Rush post-Hemispheres.
That RATM thing always annoyed me because I feel like Geddy’s bass parts in the 80’s got a lot more technical and busy overall. Same with Neil’s drumming imo.
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Must be nice being a fan of AC/DC, Motorhead, Slayer etc and getting the exact same album every few years... :)
Therapy? never made the same album twice - which is probably why thy were big in 1994 - and their most recent two albums both went top 40 in the UK.
Whilst other bands from that era have all split or don't chart anymore and play tiny venues.
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At least we get an album every few years...
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At least we get an album every few years...
I'd rather wait for an album as good as Hardwired to Self Destruct ( which is just shy of 90 minutes of new music ) than the same half arsed album every 2 years.
Oh look it's the new AC/DC song and golly wouldn't you know it - it sounds exactly like Rock N Roll Train ! Which sounds a Lot like Highway To Hell !
* - I love the riff on " Rock or Bust " - but yeah it is just Back In Black again.
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Me too but didn't enjoy the sound of it. I thought HTSD was miles better. Death Magnetic was the best album in years - but it was the first time they tried to sound like an older version of themselves.
Some of the arrangements and playing are a bit sloppy ( from everyone not just him ).
I think HTSD is better in most departments. The pristine production certainly helps.
HOWEVER. If Death Magnetic had the production of HTSD it would have been a COLOSSAL album.
Just imagine All Nightmare Long with the production value of Dream No More. :sadpanda:
When I first heard Death Magnetic, I was actually glad they were making an album in this more metal vibe, rather than their Hard Rock of Load/Reload, and I Disappear. I think having Rob Trujillo be there in the band now, and knowing his background and just his personality, he likely was the one that influenced the guys to make music that is more metal, back to their roots of metal and not the Hard Rock of Black Album-Reload.
We got exactly that with Death Magnetic, and it was nice hearing them playing this style again.
Then, when HTSD came out, I was happy and glad they came out with a bang with this one. That energy is there and that passion is heard in these songs. It was all there that they made a double album. And it's heard in the songs. When they play them live, that energy and passion shows.
That passion and energy is what I feel Death Magnetic lacked. And that Death Magnetic was the album that needed to be done as that stepping stone to be that band with the passion and energy, and was the album to show that Rob had the skills and passion to do it.
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I started listening to them with TBA, I'm not too old school, but I love DM.
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At least we get an album every few years...
I'd rather wait for an album as good as Hardwired to Self Destruct ( which is just shy of 90 minutes of new music ) than the same half arsed album every 2 years.
I'd take 90% of Slayer's output over Hardwired, and I say that as a big fan! I know you're not a fan of Slayer but enough of the bashing.
In regards to your comments about selling out. It could be taken two ways. You could argue that Slayer stayed true to the music they loved, through the 90s, and grunge, and all that. They played the music they loved, they never waivered and tried to follow a trend to sell records. Through that they had a fanbase that stayed with them and respected them for it.
The same argument could say bands like Metallica and Megadeth tried to follow the trends going on in the 90s, and changed their sound to try to keep up. I've also always seen St Anger as a direct response (and failure) in trying to keep up with a band like Slipknot. If that is true, then it's a way worse "sell out" than anything Slayer did.
Both Metallica and Megadeth changed their sound through the 90s, then came back to their thrash roots again in the 2000s. Coincidence? Or just because that was what was popular and selling ar the time (as well as how poorly a lot of their 90s output was received, compared to their 80s output)?
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This isn't about anyone on here....
But I saw a Metallica fan once say something alone the lines of " All Metallica albums are 10/10. Even St Anger cause it's Still METALLICA :metal ".
Which is hilarious. I'm not that much of a fanboy about ANY band. Even Green Day.
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Me too but didn't enjoy the sound of it. I thought HTSD was miles better. Death Magnetic was the best album in years - but it was the first time they tried to sound like an older version of themselves.
Some of the arrangements and playing are a bit sloppy ( from everyone not just him ).
I think HTSD is better in most departments. The pristine production certainly helps.
HOWEVER. If Death Magnetic had the production of HTSD it would have been a COLOSSAL album.
Just imagine All Nightmare Long with the production value of Dream No More. :sadpanda:
I agree about the bolded.
I downloaded something off the internet called the DECEiFER Remix of Death Magnetic. It's much better than the actual album and it's what I usually listen to when listening to DM.
Side 1 of Death Magnetic is amazing. the first 5 songs are top notch IMO. Hardwired is similar, where I find Disc 1 so much stronger than Disc 2. Side 2 of DM is stronger than Disc 2 of Hardwired IMO as well.
I actually ran through Hardwired yesterday. It's actually a great album, even if bloated a bit. They could've cut 2 or 3 songs from the second disc.
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:laugh:
Imagine if this album came out after And Justice For All :
1. Hardwired
2. Atlas Rise
3. Now That We're Dead
4. Moth Into Flame
5. Dream No More
6. Halo On Fire
7. Confusion
8. Spit Out The Bone
It would have been the missing bridge between the two albums.
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Hardwired did come out after Justice. They called it The Black Album.
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At least we get an album every few years...
I'd rather wait for an album as good as Hardwired to Self Destruct ( which is just shy of 90 minutes of new music ) than the same half arsed album every 2 years.
Oh look it's the new AC/DC song and golly wouldn't you know it - it sounds exactly like Rock N Roll Train ! Which sounds a Lot like Highway To Hell !
* - I love the riff on " Rock or Bust " - but yeah it is just Back In Black again.
Not really necessary to take shots. I'm far more an AC/DC fan than a Metallica fan and for me, I often see great differences between the albums. Maybe it's my familiarity with them. In contrast, I don't listen to a lot of thrash, so for me it all seems sort of "same-y".
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At least we get an album every few years...
I'd rather wait for an album as good as Hardwired to Self Destruct ( which is just shy of 90 minutes of new music ) than the same half arsed album every 2 years.
Oh look it's the new AC/DC song and golly wouldn't you know it - it sounds exactly like Rock N Roll Train ! Which sounds a Lot like Highway To Hell !
* - I love the riff on " Rock or Bust " - but yeah it is just Back In Black again.
Not really necessary to take shots. I'm far more an AC/DC fan than a Metallica fan and for me, I often see great differences between the albums. Maybe it's my familiarity with them. In contrast, I don't listen to a lot of thrash, so for me it all seems sort of "same-y".
Great point here—I have little use for a band like Nickelback (it honestly all sounds the same to me), but I have detailed opinions on AC/DC's catalog (and the whole 'it all sounds the same' kinda makes no sense to me)...that being said, it is absolutely a matter of my familiarity with the bands. I hear the nuances evolve from an album to the next (production, vocals, even guitar licks) with AC/DC (and Slayer) bc I was there, on release day for each album, and listened intently for weeks on end.
I suspect hardcore Nickelback fans have a similar feeling.
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Anyone else's head canon that Ride the Lightning is a concept album? So hear me out...
Fight Fire with Fire - young dude is off to war. He's amped up and eager to get out there and show the world what he's made of.
Ride the Lightning - young dude realises that the reality of war is not what he'd imagined and he's just doing his best to survive.
For Whom the Bell Tolls - young dude is dying on the battlefield surround by other poor souls who gave their life for a pointless war.
Fade to Black - young dude is drifting into the afterlife, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
Trapped Under Ice - (here's where it gets a bit sci-fi) turns out young dude actually survived the war and was cryogenically frozen, but he is a prisoner in some sort of hospital/research facility. His body and mind were saved, but at what cost?
Escape - young dude realises that he needs to break out of this prison he is in. In doing so he realises that he is not wholly human any longer.
Creeping Death - young dude wreaks havoc on the world and all those he feels who have wronged him (those who sent innocent young kids to fight their wars). This continues for decades, with him losing any part of what once made him human. By the end he has crossed over into the ethereal plane.
Call of Ktulu - now a spirit in the ethereal plane young dude drifts aimlessly trying to find some sort of peace. He soars on the winds of time until he at last finds peace and his existence ends.
That's the imagery that is in my head when I listen to this album :corn
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I suspect hardcore Nickelback fans have a similar feeling.
Indeed I do! ;D
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Anyone else's head canon that Ride the Lightning is a concept album?
Head canon? Also, no.
Ride the Lightning - young dude realises that the reality of war is not what he'd imagined and he's just doing his best to survive.
It's about a guy facing execution by an electric chair.
Trapped Under Ice - (here's where it gets a bit sci-fi) turns out young dude actually survived the war and was cryogenically frozen, but he is a prisoner in some sort of hospital/research facility. His body and mind were saved, but at what cost?
Possibly the single most literal song in Metallica's catalog.
Creeping Death - young dude wreaks havoc on the world and all those he feels who have wronged him (those who sent innocent young kids to fight their wars). This continues for decades, with him losing any part of what once made him human. By the end he has crossed over into the ethereal plane.
A very literal re-telling of the Book of Exodus.
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Anyone else's head canon that Ride the Lightning is a concept album? So hear me out...
Nope.
Nuclear holocaust, electric chair, Hemingway, suicide, cryogenic sleep, wanting out, Plagues of Egypt and Lovecraft do not constitute a concept album.
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Anyone else's head canon that Ride the Lightning is a concept album? So hear me out...
Fight Fire with Fire - young dude is off to war. He's amped up and eager to get out there and show the world what he's made of.
Ride the Lightning - young dude realises that the reality of war is not what he'd imagined and he's just doing his best to survive.
For Whom the Bell Tolls - young dude is dying on the battlefield surround by other poor souls who gave their life for a pointless war.
Fade to Black - young dude is drifting into the afterlife, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
Trapped Under Ice - (here's where it gets a bit sci-fi) turns out young dude actually survived the war and was cryogenically frozen, but he is a prisoner in some sort of hospital/research facility. His body and mind were saved, but at what cost?
Escape - young dude realises that he needs to break out of this prison he is in. In doing so he realises that he is not wholly human any longer.
Creeping Death - young dude wreaks havoc on the world and all those he feels who have wronged him (those who sent innocent young kids to fight their wars). This continues for decades, with him losing any part of what once made him human. By the end he has crossed over into the ethereal plane.
Call of Ktulu - now a spirit in the ethereal plane young dude drifts aimlessly trying to find some sort of peace. He soars on the winds of time until he at last finds peace and his existence ends.
That's the imagery that is in my head when I listen to this album :corn
Honestly, I've never once thought this, but here's the thing: there's what the artist intended, and there's what 'you' take away. If that's the imagery you get when you listen, and btw it's pretty awesome imagery, then I say you do you and bang your head to that concept!
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I have never in my life heard the term "head canon".
Sounds pretty metal though!
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I'm glad the takeaway from my post is a discussion around the term head canon :lol
I know that the band didn't really write this as a concept album guys jeez. It's just the way I have thought about the album over the years and how the album can be tied together in my head. It's just a bit of fun, you don't have to be such a WildRanger about it.
Maybe I'll try to cobble together a concept for each of their albums, I'm sure it could be done.
Let's see....
St. Anger - the tale of a young pauper who dreamed of being a 'rock star', and built himself a drum kit out of trash that he found.
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I'm glad the takeaway from my post is a discussion around the term head canon :lol
:lol
Guilty!
:lol
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Another very random Metallica topic, since, hey, what the hell: Does anyone else ever sing that line in the second verse of Enter Sandman as "Dreams of Kirk, dreams of Lars, dreams of dragons' fire"? Because I do sometimes, just to entertain myself.
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Another very random Metallica topic, since, hey, what the hell: Does anyone else ever sing that line in the second verse of Enter Sandman as "Dreams of Kirk, dreams of Lars, dreams of dragons' fire"? Because I do sometimes, just to entertain myself.
Yes! This is so funny - not Kirk, but Lars, yes, absolutely! I've done it in my head for the longest time ;D
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The only band members name association I do is with Iron Maiden, in Running Free:
"Spend all night in an L.A. Jail
Listen to Nicko McBrain"
:biggrin:
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St. Anger - the tale of a young pauper who dreamed of being a 'rock star', and built himself a drum kit out of trash that he found.
:lol
Carry on!
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Another very random Metallica topic, since, hey, what the hell: Does anyone else ever sing that line in the second verse of Enter Sandman as "Dreams of Kirk, dreams of Lars, dreams of dragons' fire"? Because I do sometimes, just to entertain myself.
Yes! This is so funny - not Kirk, but Lars, yes, absolutely! I've done it in my head for the longest time ;D
:lol I figured I wasn't alone! I started out just doing Lars, of course, but I figured someone should be in the dream with him, and who better than Kirk?
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Metallica are suing London-based insurance market Lloyd's of London for damages from their postponed 2020 tour dates:
https://loudwire.com/metallica-suing-lloyds-of-london-damages-postponed-2020-tour/
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"Communicable Disease Exclusion"....I wonder what that means?
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That's actually the title of Metallica's next album: Head Cannon.
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"Communicable Disease Exclusion"....I wonder what that means?
Sounds like a Carcass song title.
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I'm sure it's their management doing the suing. Highly doubt James and Lars are behind this but sure it'll create more headlines if you imply that they are. ::)
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"Communicable Disease Exclusion"....I wonder what that means?
Metallica is not going to win this lawsuit.
I'm in the commercial insurance industry and the entire industry is standing firm against lawsuits resulting from COVID and fighting them hard, as they should. Most policies exclude any coverage for communicable diseases: there is no coverage for the economic shutdown because of COVID, no coverage for liability if someone sues you for getting sick while inside of your business, no coverage for cancellations because of diseases/pandemics (the Metallica lawsuit). It's the reality of the situation - your general insurance policy just isn't made to cover this type of outbreak.
They can claim it's an improper application of the policy exclusion, but the reality is that there are actual insurance policies that cover pandemics and disease outbreaks - the Wimbledon tennis tournament has purchased it for years and in 2020, they finally made a claim on it when they cancelled the tournament and the policy paid out millions of dollars.
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"Communicable Disease Exclusion"....I wonder what that means?
Metallica is not going to win this lawsuit.
I'm in the commercial insurance industry and the entire industry is standing firm against lawsuits resulting from COVID and fighting them hard, as they should. Most policies exclude any coverage for communicable diseases: there is no coverage for the economic shutdown because of COVID, no coverage for liability if someone sues you for getting sick while inside of your business, no coverage for cancellations because of diseases/pandemics (the Metallica lawsuit). It's the reality of the situation - your general insurance policy just isn't made to cover this type of outbreak.
They can claim it's an improper application of the policy exclusion, but the reality is that there are actual insurance policies that cover pandemics and disease outbreaks - the Wimbledon tennis tournament has purchased it for years and in 2020, they finally made a claim on it when they cancelled the tournament and the policy paid out millions of dollars.
You clearly know more about this than I do, but this strikes me as the text-book example of "slippery slope". I can't imagine they can allow even the slightest crack on this point, because the floodgates would open. I think when all is said and done (globally) the damages from COVID will be in the trillions of dollars. I don't think it's in the best interests of anyone to concentrate those losses in one industry; it's probably best to bite the bullet, spread the losses across all industries and all governments, and move on.
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Exactly. If one judge rules in favor of a plaintiff in one of these COVID/insurance company lawsuits, it will have a massive impact on the insurance industry and it will be a free for all. So far, the insurers have been successful in defending the policy language, as they should be. The first lawsuits showed up a year ago, when restaurants and businesses had to close. Claims were denied (there is no coverage for lost income due to shutdowns unless your building is damaged physically, first) and high-profile restaurant owners sued.
Some states did allow for workers compensation claims to be paid for employees that contracted COVID while working, but it was scaled back to individuals that encounter sick people in their regular job duties (first responders), at least in Illinois.
I don't see Metallica having any success, but they have to try. I did for my clients - we filed claims and told the client we'd do it, even though the claim would likely be denied. I did laugh when I read the headline though - it's strange when my worlds collide (insurance and metal).
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"Communicable Disease Exclusion"....I wonder what that means?
Metallica is not going to win this lawsuit.
I'm in the commercial insurance industry and the entire industry is standing firm against lawsuits resulting from COVID and fighting them hard, as they should. Most policies exclude any coverage for communicable diseases: there is no coverage for the economic shutdown because of COVID, no coverage for liability if someone sues you for getting sick while inside of your business, no coverage for cancellations because of diseases/pandemics (the Metallica lawsuit). It's the reality of the situation - your general insurance policy just isn't made to cover this type of outbreak.
They can claim it's an improper application of the policy exclusion, but the reality is that there are actual insurance policies that cover pandemics and disease outbreaks - the Wimbledon tennis tournament has purchased it for years and in 2020, they finally made a claim on it when they cancelled the tournament and the policy paid out millions of dollars.
Well Metallica is shit out of luck. :corn
I guess it's one of those "I don't know what this is, but I might need it one day, so I'm going to keep it." kind of things. :lol
And it ended up paying off for those that did do just that.
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"Communicable Disease Exclusion"....I wonder what that means?
You'd have to read the policy. These sorts of policies are HIGHLY specialized. It says the lawsuit was filed in Los Angeles County Superior Court, so it won't be available at the court's website. If the case gets removed to federal court, I'll be able to read the complaint. Or, if someone can find it online, I can look and give my thoughts (assuming the exclusion in question is quoted in the complaint or the policy is attached as an exhibit).
I'm sure it's their management doing the suing. Highly doubt James and Lars are behind this but sure it'll create more headlines if you imply that they are. ::)
Well...the band, through its corporate entities, has standing. Management does not, and the band members are the owners of the corporate entities. Even though management would be the primary conduit with the attorneys, they didn't do this without the band members signing off.
I'm in the commercial insurance industry and the entire industry is standing firm against lawsuits resulting from COVID and fighting them hard, as they should. Most policies exclude any coverage for communicable diseases: there is no coverage for the economic shutdown because of COVID, no coverage for liability if someone sues you for getting sick while inside of your business, no coverage for cancellations because of diseases/pandemics (the Metallica lawsuit). It's the reality of the situation - your general insurance policy just isn't made to cover this type of outbreak.
They can claim it's an improper application of the policy exclusion, but the reality is that there are actual insurance policies that cover pandemics and disease outbreaks - the Wimbledon tennis tournament has purchased it for years and in 2020, they finally made a claim on it when they cancelled the tournament and the policy paid out millions of dollars.
You're making two different points here. Just because the industry is standing firm on stuff like this doesn't mean its a reasonable interpretation of the policy. Also, Lloyd's policies are typically not written on standard industry forms, so the experience of the average business entity isn't likely to be relevant here.
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The Metallica Blacklist (Official Trailer) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMeg-relQhM&ab_channel=WhistlinDieselWhistlinDiesel)
Love the variety of the artists, this could be pretty intersting. I mean Roxette? :lol
Metallica: The Black Album (Remastered) (Official Trailer) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Yi1wFzKsE&ab_channel=MetallicaMetallicaOfficiellartistkanal)
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That boxset looks really tempting...
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Lots of Nothing Else Matters, haha shocking. But yea, that tribute actually looks really cool. I love different interpretations of songs. It'd be pretty boring if it's a bunch of metal bands playing Metallica songs note for note (which is already available in abundance).
But I did a quick side by side of the remaster and original of Sandman. And while it's on my computer and not on amazing speakers, I heard virtually no difference.
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£250 for the deluxe box set of the black album? What in the blue fuck? :omg:
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£250 for the deluxe box set of the black album? What in the blue fuck? :omg:
6 LP's, 10 CD's, 6 DVD's and a hardcover book, plus extras. I'm totally fine with the price. That's a lot of music and other goodies. A copy of the Black Album vinyl alone is $25. Add 4 more vinyls, $10 per CD, $10 per DVD (lowball value) and you'd be over $300. I'm sure you'll be able to do a digital download of all the music for cheaper if you'd rather that.
Personally, I've been waiting for this. Perfect Christmas present. I'll probably get that sweet-looking Ross Halfin B&W Black Album book, too.
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How much of that music is actually new, though? Be interesting to see if the demos go beyond what's previously been released.
Not a question of affordability.
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But I did a quick side by side of the remaster and original of Sandman. And while it's on my computer and not on amazing speakers, I heard virtually no difference.
I basically see this as a good thing, seeing as The Black Album already had fantastic production. If this remaster becomes the standard version going forward, as they often do, it's nice that they kept it pretty similar and didn't risk ruining it.
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Didn’t David Lee Roth insure his penis through Lloyds? Wonder if that had the “communicable disease exclusion”…
They’re also the insurance agency that covered all the professional wrestlers in the 90s who got “injured” and took early retirements.
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Even as a relatively casual Met fan, I'd buy TBA and ...AJFA sets if they didn't have the vinyl. I don't understand that. Not everyone is back into the vinyl!!!!!!!!!!!
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https://open.spotify.com/album/7q1uUGJb9Nu2MfUMMSFEVo
OMFG This sounds incredible. Was expecting WAY too much treble and loads of extra volume but it sounds GREAT.
I am 100% definitely buying this on vinyl. 100%
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I have studio headphones but I can't hear much diffrence, I guess the changes are subtle or what should I listen for?
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To me it just sounds punchier overall.
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Even as a relatively casual Met fan, I'd buy TBA and ...AJFA sets if they didn't have the vinyl. I don't understand that. Not everyone is back into the vinyl!!!!!!!!!!!
I've lost count how many times I've made this point. I've got the AJFA mega bonus whoppee collection in my Amazon wish list, but the inclusion of vinyl that is just a waste of space is one of the reasons I've been reluctant to pull the trigger. No re-release of TBA is going to get me excited, however.
https://open.spotify.com/album/7q1uUGJb9Nu2MfUMMSFEVo
OMFG This sounds incredible. Was expecting WAY too much treble and loads of extra volume but it sounds GREAT.
I am 100% definitely buying this on vinyl. 100%
I listened to about 20 seconds. Maybe a bit punchier, but it's still the same relatively lousy song.
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1. So why did you listen to it knowing you hate the song? :facepalm:
2. It's a remaster - why were you expecting a different song ? :lolpalm:
2.5 Kotowboy has to be wrong about everything as per usual.
3. Did you come into the Metallica Thread just to say they suck ? WAY TO GO!
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1. So why did you listen to it knowing you hate the song? :facepalm:
2. It's a remaster - why were you expecting a different song ? :lolpalm:
2.5 Kotowboy has to be wrong about everything as per usual.
3. Did you come into the Metallica Thread just to say they suck ? WAY TO GO!
To be fair, he's got AJFA in his Amazon cart...obviously a fan.
As for the song, I LOVE TBA...seriously, I was eleven when it came out, and I've probably listened to that damn thing a thousand times. There was a point in time where I could sit down with my guitar and play along with it note for note (loved Kirk's solos)...except for 'Enter Sandman.'
The song does nothing for me...didn't then, doesn't now, and I always skip right to 'Sad But True.'
It's a well-constructed song, but does nothing for me. I respect it, but rarely (if ever) listen to it.
Excited for this remaster...sounds great!
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I will get the Digipak CD to match the first 4 Blackened Remasters AND i'm absolutely getting this on vinyl if it's not too much £30 would be acceptable - much more than that and I might think again.
But I want it on Vinyl to get the absolute best sound quality of this release.
The first 4 remasters in this series actually made me love those respective albums even more. I actually enjoyed Escape and Trapped Under Ice finally.
I even enjoyed AJFA remastered and that's my least fave album.
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Enter Sandman is a song that has become virtually impossible to listen to on its own terms the same way one would listen to another Metallica song, because it's just been played so much. So to that extent I understand someone having a different perspective on it from the rest of the songs on The Black Album. It also doesn't help that it's the first song on the album, so instead of having the insanely famous song come up while you're in the flow of the album, it's the start to the experience.
But when I do my best to take it on its own as just a song, I think it's quite good. Not my favorite on the album, but not my least favorite, either. Somewhere in the middle.
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I've never been to a Metallica concert but if I did - i think even in that moment - i'd be unexcited about Sandman ;D
But I do still love it as a song. It's just that I have heard them play it so many times on recordings.
Plus I have this theory about concerts. No matter the production or if it's your absolute fave band. After 90 minutes you've had enough.
Bands that do 3 hour concerts ? No thanks. 90 mins is perfect.
Especially if it's a stadium gig with 3 support bands and you spend like 12 hours on your feet.
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1. So why did you listen to it knowing you hate the song? :facepalm:
2. It's a remaster - why were you expecting a different song ? :lolpalm:
2.5 Kotowboy has to be wrong about everything as per usual.
3. Did you come into the Metallica Thread just to say they suck ? WAY TO GO!
1. Because you never know (and because I've seen some folks comment as you did and others say they couldn't tell the difference).
2. Why do you think I had an expectation of a different song? I didn't.
3. No. I have posted many times in this thread and have never said "they suck" (either in those words or otherwise).
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Because you clicked the link of a REMASTERED Enter Sandman and said it was the same boring song as usual as if you were expecting a Jazz Polka Breakdown.
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p.s. I just A/B'd the 1991 and 2021 Enter Sandman and the 2021 definitely has more punch to it. It's not vastly different. But crucially it doesn't sound awful.
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p.s. I just A/B'd the 1991 and 2021 Enter Sandman and the 2021 definitely has more punch to it. It's not vastly different. But crucially it doesn't sound awful.
Yea. I’m glad it’s not ruined. But it’s too similar for me to consider it. Plus I think the original is perfect as is. Hopefully it’ll make some people happy and everyone else can stick with the original without complaint.
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I was browsing YouTube on my PS4 and TV When I saw the 2021 version was on Spotify I ran into my bedroom to give it a proper listen on my studio speakers to get the full effect.
I was definitely nervous because a lot of Remasters are just louder with more high end and clipping - and I was relieved how good it sounded. I genuinely didn't think
they could improve on the 1991 master but I guess we've been hearing the same album for 30 years now.
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Plus I have this theory about concerts. No matter the production or if it's your absolute fave band. After 90 minutes you've had enough.
Bands that do 3 hour concerts ? No thanks. 90 mins is perfect.
Especially if it's a stadium gig with 3 support bands and you spend like 12 hours on your feet.
Nah, I've been to many gigs over 90 minutes and still been fully into it. I remember seeing Machine Head play for 2 and a half hours a few years ago and it was incredible. I was exhausted by the end and was on my feet/in the pit the whole time, but I'm glad it didn't end at 90 minutes.
The two times I've seen Metallica I still considered them my fave band of all time, and both times were like a religious experience. I think they played for at least 2 hours both times , and I still wanted more.
Think you're just getting old :lol
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I will get the Digipak CD to match the first 4 Blackened Remasters AND i'm absolutely getting this on vinyl if it's not too much £30 would be acceptable - much more than that and I might think again.
You're in luck. It's £30. Although I imagine there's another £6/7 on that for postage.
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https://dai.ly/xj3jkl
They destroy the place. I love the other acts singing and playing along (99 times out of 10, they just sit there and watch politely).
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https://dai.ly/xj3jkl
They destroy the place. I love the other acts singing and playing along (99 times out of 10, they just sit there and watch politely).
I quite literally paused Metallica to play this.
Worth it.
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Think you're just getting old :lol
I don't enjoy gigs for a number of reasons.
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So, as I sit here bored at work, I often watch old live videos of Metallica. And in watching some of these videos from the late 80's/early 90's, I'm struck by how many cool guitars they had that I associate with them that we never see anymore. Kirk had a good amount that he seems to have replaced with newer signature ones. James had a ton of beautiful old ESP explorers and I rarely see him use them at all anymore. I wonder if they all still have them just put away in a room somewhere. It's a shame. Beautiful guitars.
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Getting a 2 ½ - 3 hour concert by a band you love is a dream scenario as you're likely to get some nice gems in there. Then you have bands who play 90 minutes despite being able to easily fill a 2 hour concert with good songs and they play the safe/boring stuff with few surprises.
Only thing I could do without at live shows is the trend of multiple opening acts. I get having one band to open the night up but even if I like the opening bands it can feel like a drag to have 2 or 3 of them.
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So, as I sit here bored at work, I often watch old live videos of Metallica. And in watching some of these videos from the late 80's/early 90's, I'm struck by how many cool guitars they had that I associate with them that we never see anymore. Kirk had a good amount that he seems to have replaced with newer signature ones. James had a ton of beautiful old ESP explorers and I rarely see him use them at all anymore. I wonder if they all still have them just put away in a room somewhere. It's a shame. Beautiful guitars.
I bet they still have them. Wasn't it "Some Kind Of Monster" where James is talking to Rob and he mentions that they have a warehouse with over 500 guitars?
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So, as I sit here bored at work, I often watch old live videos of Metallica. And in watching some of these videos from the late 80's/early 90's, I'm struck by how many cool guitars they had that I associate with them that we never see anymore. Kirk had a good amount that he seems to have replaced with newer signature ones. James had a ton of beautiful old ESP explorers and I rarely see him use them at all anymore. I wonder if they all still have them just put away in a room somewhere. It's a shame. Beautiful guitars.
Interesting how you associate certain guitarists with specific guitars, and it seems weird when they play something else. For me, James "should" play his white/cream Explorer (I always assumed it was a a Gibson, but...) or Flying V, and Kirk "should" play either his black Strat with the white pickguard or his black Jackson V.
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Brother can you spare a Les Paul?
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James still brings out the EET FUK explorer occasionally. Theres a clip of him using it to record The Judas Kiss.
His Ken Lawrence Explorer is so beautiful.
Also I realised - that Enter Sandman 2021 sounds nice and punchy. how is Sad But True gonna sound ? It's gonna put Meshuggah to shame. :corn
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James still brings out the EET FUK explorer occasionally. Theres a clip of him using it to record The Judas Kiss.
His Ken Lawrence Explorer is so beautiful.
Also I realised - that Enter Sandman 2021 sounds nice and punchy. how is Sad But True gonna sound ? It's gonna put Meshuggah to shame. :corn
Oh man. If I ever win the lottery, one of my early calls is to Ken Lawrence. That is my favorite guitar ever.
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I'd ask him to make me the same guitar but a Les Paul Custom body shape. He can do his KL headstock I don't care. That wood is ridiculous.
(https://www.guitarscollector.com/gallery/ExpFull.jpg)
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I’d want my own custom explorer. It’s just so beautiful.
Of course I’d also buy a super fine Les Paul as well.
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My #1 Dream guitar is a Silverburst Custom LP. Which Is why I want Epiphone to do an Inspired by Gibson LP Custom in Silverburst with the new headstock and specs. Cause that would do.
But i'm seriously considering the new 2021 Epiphone Prophecy Les Paul in Greenburst. I've tried the same guitar in the explorer shape and it basically felt like a Gibson.
Plus it has three pickup combos. 1. High Output. 2. PAF Style passive 3. Single Coil. All in one humbucker. And for only around £750. :D That'd make up for me selling my
Epiphone LP Custom in Silverburst in 2014!
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dN9LzcODnL0/maxresdefault.jpg)
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Nice!
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Genuinely don't know how to get £750 though. I need a much better paying job,
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Genuinely don't know how to get £750 though. I need a much better paying job,
I need a new drum set so last year I started putting part of every paycheck toward it and I should soon be able to afford one. Takes a while but it helps.
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Every time I do that some big bill comes along that needs paying and so I end up spending what i saved. :D
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Those Ken Lawrence Explorers are so nice! Both James and Kirk have had some awesome guitars over the years. My favorite of Kirk's is probably the Ouija or the Mummy one. I know early James had the V, but I prefer him with the Explorers, especially in the Justice/Black era. I still have my ESP LTD Explorer (pre-lawsuit) that I had to have because I wanted to look like James. I always wanted the diamond plated Explorer too. Some of James' newer stuff is pretty cool. I like the Iron Cross Les Paul and ESP signature of it. The Snakebyte is ok, but I like the Explorer shape better.
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As for Vs - the ESP Vulture is really cool.
(https://img.kytary.com/eshop_co_uk/velky_v2/na/636588830981930000/417625c9/64541129/esp-james-hetfield-vulture-bks.jpg)
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Only thing I could do without at live shows is the trend of multiple opening acts. I get having one band to open the night up but even if I like the opening bands it can feel like a drag to have 2 or 3 of them.
Yes when I saw GREEN DAY in 2002 - There were about 4 opening bands. They only did 30 mins each but still. It's a slog and more like a mini festival I Guess.
- Face to Face - never heard of them before or since
- Hundred Reasons
- Spunge
- Iggy Pop !
- Green Day
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I’m cool with three. The main band, a pretty well known opening, and a much less known band that’s getting massive exposure through the tour.
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Pretty sure James had to change up the Explorers cause Gibson came after them with a lawsuit I believe? That’s why we have the “Snake Bite”
He’s got that sweet Ken Lawrence explorer with wood made from the OG garage they wrote the first 3 albums.
Kirk still has all kinds of sweet guitars including Greenie that he actually gigs with.
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Pretty sure James had to change up the Explorers cause Gibson came after them with a lawsuit I believe? That’s why we have the “Snake Bite”
He’s got that sweet Ken Lawrence explorer with wood made from the OG garage they wrote the first 3 albums.
Kirk still has all kinds of sweet guitars including Greenie that he actually gigs with.
Why would that apply to James? It applies to ESP. But couldn’t James just use any of his guitars? I dunno. Maybe he agreed not to for ESP?
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Kirk has a weird guitar that looks like a guitar in a cartoon about the future. Like a Super Soaker with a guitar neck on it.
Apparently they're built 100% for sound and 0% for how they look.
Think it's called Treuffel or something weird like that.
Wasn't far off :
(https://www.vintageandrare.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Teuffel-Guitars-7.jpg)
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Apparently they're built 100% for sound and 0% for how they look.
It would want to sound pretty good then wouldn't it. :lol
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Yea :lol for how it looks I hope it's the best sounding guitar made
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Looks like it would be perfect for a steam-punk band!
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Rough mix/take of Sad But True from upcoming boxset:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zCw6e50_Tc
Sounds pretty good! ;D
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I can't wait to hear SBT Remastered !
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So Metallica is playing a show in Atlanta with Cage the Elephant and Greta Van Fleet. I may take the trip to see this one.
Turns out my cancelled ProgPower flight to Atlanta from 2020 credits expire in March and I can apply them for this at no cost (and I have no other reasons to go to Atlanta before March), the show is on a Saturday so I can do this without taking time off from work... oh and I know they get lots of shit but I LOVE Greta Van Fleet. Going to try and snag a ticket during the metallica presale and if I can get a decent one (it's in a football stadium, so I don't want a shit seat) I'm going to make this happen. :metal :metal
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November sounds like a good time for a new album. Hardwired... Was released in November if I remember rightly. And it's been 5 years. I know they've been in HQ for a while too.
If not November - hopefully not too long after Black Album Remastered is out. March 2022 would also do. That would be six months after METALLICA and a little over 5 years and nowhere near the 8 year gap
between Magnetic and Hardwired.
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Been catching up on all the Metallica Monday live concert releases. What an awesome band. Don’t know how much the audio is touched up butbLars certainly sounds great most of the time.
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Lars really isn't the LOLSUX drummer that everyone says he is. He hasn't been that bad live for a long time. Really his only problem is rushing accents but that's a live band.
If you're used to going to see live bands who play to a click then a normal band is gonna speed up here and there.
It's not like he can barely play a drumbeat and fux up every fill he does.
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Lars really isn't the LOLSUX drummer that everyone says he is. He hasn't been that bad live for a long time. Really his only problem is rushing accents but that's a live band.
If you're used to going to see live bands who play to a click then a normal band is gonna speed up here and there.
It's not like he can barely play a drumbeat and fux up every fill he does.
You can't fuck up a fill you don't play.
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K i'll just mosey on over to the Iron maiden thread and talk shit about Nicko...
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I don't watch and listen to enough live Metallica stuff to know if Lars is as crappy live as many say, but I suspect he gets a lot of hate for it simply because of what an obnoxious tool he is in general. Aside from having one of the most punchable faces in rock history, when he talks, he just makes you want to put your foot through his face. :lol :lol
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Lars’ main issue is that he’s a lazy drummer these days. His focus seems mostly on everything else the band does and his drumming is just something he has to do. He’d be a lot better if he put some more effort into it. If he didn’t skip so many parts/fills, or change them to make them as simple as possible. But I don’t see that happening so I just accept him as he is. I also couldn’t imagine Metallica with a different drummer.
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I listen to a LOT of Metallica live and Lars has 100% improved. He says he has started practicing again too. Plus half the band have physical issues which probably don't help.
Also I don't think Lars has been that much of a d*ck since SKOM. That film bought them all down to Earth with a bang.
I remember one Meet and Greet video - a guy in line gave Lars a CD of his band to listen to - and Lars played it over the PA before they took the stage.
Not something an obnoxious tool does.
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I wouldn’t call Lars a dick or anything. He was super nice to me when I met him. And he may have improved, but he’s still pretty lazy up there.
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I don't know; I'm not a drummer and I'm not as close to Met as many here, but I just don't get the hate for Lars, frankly. I think he's a decent guy in interviews, he's giving of his time, the band is fan-friendly in terms of their live releases and their packages, and what I've heard, he's delivered when he had to. What more can you ask for as a fan? I think like anyone who puts himself out there (Mike!) he's a target for a lot of undeserved ridicule.
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but I just don't get the hate for Lars, frankly. I think he's a decent guy in interviews, he's giving of his time, the band is fan-friendly in terms of their live releases and their packages, and what I've heard, he's delivered when he had to. What more can you ask for as a fan?
Lars can be a little cheesy. That's all. I have zero problem with Lars.
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K i'll just mosey on over to the Iron maiden thread and talk shit about Nicko...
Whatever floats your boat.
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I've never understood the Metallica = GREEDY MONEY GRABBERS thing either.
Napster was not about people downloading for free as they've always supported bootlegging. It was about someone stealing an unfinished song ( I disappear ) and uploading it for
download before the song was finished. That was their main issue. People were taking the control away from the band.
Metallica upload one or two songs pro shot and pro mixed to youtube from Every Gig they do. Plus it's now FREE to join the Met Club etc.
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I think most of the Lars hate stems back to the Napster fiasco and continues mostly these days because he's not very good live. Also I read the band doesn't even follow his lead live, but James. Which makes me think the band also doesn't really think too highly of his live timing. Having said that, as someone else mentioned, I can't imagine metallica without him. There's no doubt he's a huge part of Metallica and their success. But I also don't really like him.
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I'd doubt that. It would be a bit rich the other 3 not liking Lars live playing when Kirk nor Rob can't sing - Kirk's solos are all over the place and James vocals are very hit and miss too.
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I'd doubt that. It would be a bit rich the other 3 not liking Lars live playing when Kirk nor Rob can't sing - Kirk's solos are all over the place and James vocals are very hit and miss too.
https://loudwire.com/lars-ulrich-follows-james-hetfield-rhythm-live-joe-duplantier-gojira/ (https://loudwire.com/lars-ulrich-follows-james-hetfield-rhythm-live-joe-duplantier-gojira/)
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I don't know; I'm not a drummer and I'm not as close to Met as many here, but I just don't get the hate for Lars, frankly. I think he's a decent guy in interviews, he's giving of his time, the band is fan-friendly in terms of their live releases and their packages, and what I've heard, he's delivered when he had to. What more can you ask for as a fan? I think like anyone who puts himself out there (Mike!) he's a target for a lot of undeserved ridicule.
From what I can tell he seemed to develop a pretty big prima donna attitude following the Black Album- some of the interviews from the Load/Reload days are a bit rough. There’s an infamous one from MTV I believe, where he refuses to answer or even acknowledge the interviewer because a Denmark soccer match is on TV (which he doesn’t seem THAT interested in, either). There’s another moment from the Load tour footage where he’s at a bookstore and pointing out all the magazines he’s on the cover of to another shopper and asking “how many magazines are YOU in?”. Little shit like that usually doesn’t go over well with the metal crowd.
Of course, the general fan perception that he’s directly responsible for some single mothers getting sued tens of thousands of dollars because their kids for downloaded Metallica on Napster doesn’t help. Nor does being the ONLY major rock star with the balls to speak out against file sharing. (Lo and behold he was right, the public no longer views recorded music as a commodity worth paying for, but I digress…)
At the end of the day though the hate is obviously misguided. Lars has always been the mover and shaker of Metallica- the “get it done” member that every successful band needed, the guy who kisses ass to the magazines and radio stations in the early days to get exposure etc. With any other drummer, Hetfield would be pumping gas at a JiffyLube somewhere in Downey (and Dave Mustaine would probably be dead). I truly believe that.
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I'd doubt that. It would be a bit rich the other 3 not liking Lars live playing when Kirk nor Rob can't sing - Kirk's solos are all over the place and James vocals are very hit and miss too.
https://loudwire.com/lars-ulrich-follows-james-hetfield-rhythm-live-joe-duplantier-gojira/ (https://loudwire.com/lars-ulrich-follows-james-hetfield-rhythm-live-joe-duplantier-gojira/)
That's more about James being *so* tight that everyone follows him and not " Lars sucks so bad we all follow james instead "
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These discussions remind me of an interview conducted by comedian Jim Breuer. At one point, they all agree that, if Metallica was a country:
- Kirk would be Mr President
- Rob would be VP
- James would be Secretary of Defense
- Lars would be in charge of Foreign Affairs
It's a funny bit, you can check it out here: https://youtu.be/arWNAV4Hlco. The whole interview is pretty cool, actually.
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James pumping gas? Riighttt. Well you got your hot take in for the day, congrats!
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I don't know about pumping gas... but I don't think it's THAT strange to follow someone who isn't the drummer.
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James pumping gas? Riighttt. Well you got your hot take in for the day, congrats!
Don’t get me wrong, I consider Hetfield a modern day musical genius, but there are ALOT of musical geniuses working at the local Burger King, if you get my drift. He came from BELOW nothing; no parents at that point, dirt poor, painfully shy. Metallica basically got on the map with Lars’ tenacity (and Mustaine’s popularity, ironically) Hell, Lars was trying to get on Metal Blade before he even had a band. Even after Kill Em All there was still some question of Hetfield being the permanent singer in the band.
But obviously once they got in the door, it was Hetfield’s musical talent that strapped a rocket ship to the band’s ass, no question.
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With any other drummer, Hetfield would be pumping gas at a JiffyLube somewhere in Downey (and Dave Mustaine would probably be dead). I truly believe that.
Is it wrong that the first thing I did upon reading this was to check and see if there are any Jiffy Lubes in Downey (there are two)? :biggrin:
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Man that's a lot of TBA outtakes! The remastered b-sides will be awesome too, but it's kinda weird how they're in between live songs.
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They were doing rough TBA mixes in June yet the album came out in August? Compared to DT, that's kind of a quick release!
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Yeah as much as I like James (I think he's the best musician of the band) I don't think there's any "hot take" about him possibly having ended up nowhere if not for Lars. Lars did put out that ad looking for people to play with after all. With many things in life it's the right people meeting at the right time which leads to things like Metallica.
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So I was cranking Beyond Magnetic today while working. I take it that it’s not very well regarded here? I like it quite a lot. Every song is chock full of killer riffs and vocals. Shrugs.
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James pumping gas? Riighttt. Well you got your hot take in for the day, congrats!
Don’t get me wrong, I consider Hetfield a modern day musical genius, but there are ALOT of musical geniuses working at the local Burger King, if you get my drift. He came from BELOW nothing; no parents at that point, dirt poor, painfully shy. Metallica basically got on the map with Lars’ tenacity (and Mustaine’s popularity, ironically) Hell, Lars was trying to get on Metal Blade before he even had a band. Even after Kill Em All there was still some question of Hetfield being the permanent singer in the band.
But obviously once they got in the door, it was Hetfield’s musical talent that strapped a rocket ship to the band’s ass, no question.
I kinda see what you’re saying, but I think James’ talent and drive would have landed him in a good place sooner or later. But yeah meeting Lars was huge, it’s a perfect combo.
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So I was cranking Beyond Magnetic today while working. I take it that it’s not very well regarded here? I like it quite a lot. Every song is chock full of killer riffs and vocals. Shrugs.
It feels like exactly what it is. Four songs that obviously weren't good enough for the parent album.
Hate Train is probably the best song. Just A Bullet Away is a good riff and verse but it has zero chorus and doesn't even have an ending.
Hell and Back is really boring and plodding and forced sounding. Rebel of Babylon isn't great either.
The ten songs on Death Magnetic are the best songs from that session by far.
I'm glad they decided to keep the album to one disc and the 10 best songs and not put out another massive double album of 14 tracks and 1 hour 45 minutes.
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So I was cranking Beyond Magnetic today while working. I take it that it’s not very well regarded here? I like it quite a lot. Every song is chock full of killer riffs and vocals. Shrugs.
It feels like exactly what it is. Four songs that obviously weren't good enough for the parent album.
Hate Train is probably the best song. Just A Bullet Away is a good riff and verse but it has zero chorus and doesn't even have an ending.
Hell and Back is really boring and plodding and forced sounding. Rebel of Babylon isn't great either.
The ten songs on Death Magnetic are the best songs from that session by far.
I'm glad they decided to keep the album to one disc and the 10 best songs and not put out another massive double album of 14 tracks and 1 hour 45 minutes.
I agree.
They should've done the same thing with Hardwired. I would regard it a lot higher if they trimmed the bottom 4 off.
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So I was cranking Beyond Magnetic today while working. I take it that it’s not very well regarded here? I like it quite a lot. Every song is chock full of killer riffs and vocals. Shrugs.
It feels like exactly what it is. Four songs that obviously weren't good enough for the parent album.
Hate Train is probably the best song. Just A Bullet Away is a good riff and verse but it has zero chorus and doesn't even have an ending.
Hell and Back is really boring and plodding and forced sounding. Rebel of Babylon isn't great either.
The ten songs on Death Magnetic are the best songs from that session by far.
I'm glad they decided to keep the album to one disc and the 10 best songs and not put out another massive double album of 14 tracks and 1 hour 45 minutes.
I agree.
They should've done the same thing with Hardwired. I would regard it a lot higher if they trimmed the bottom 4 off.
I will second this. Having recently given it a good couple of re-listens, I am convinced that, at 55-60 minutes, it's in their top 3 albums. Unfortunately, it's a bit bloated for my taste.
"Spit Out the Bone" is not only one of the best songs from the record, it might be a top-5 song for me 'all time'
"Murder One," on the other hand, along with the other 4 plodders that muck up the back half of the record, does nothing for me.
Still, it's a solid release, and I remain impressed with it nearly 5 years later.
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"Murder One," on the other hand, along with the other 4 plodders that muck up the back half of the record, does nothing for me.
Still, it's a solid release, and I remain impressed with it nearly 5 years later.
Yup.
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I will second this. Having recently given it a good couple of re-listens, I am convinced that, at 55-60 minutes, it's in their top 3 albums. Unfortunately, it's a bit bloated for my taste.
"Spit Out the Bone" is not only one of the best songs from the record, it might be a top-5 song for me 'all time'
"Murder One," on the other hand, along with the other 4 plodders that muck up the back half of the record, does nothing for me.
Still, it's a solid release, and I remain impressed with it nearly 5 years later.
Wholeheartedly agree with this. Very good release. I'd say all the way through (and including) Confusion, it's actually closing in on great. Unfortunately, MaUNkind through Murder One is a pretty significant lull, and it's a good chunk ;D But then, yes, Spit Out the Bone closes the whole thing with a bang. Had they left those 4 out...
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Hey, no one touch Here Comes Revenge.
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Yea. I’d drop Confusion, Murder One, ManUnkind, and if I had to drop another song, it’d be here come revenge but I’d also be cool keeping it.
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Am I savage is one of my favorites on the album, though. If I had to cut stuff from the album, some of the tracks from the second disc would go, but Am I savage needs to stay.
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I love the outro to Halo of Fire. :metal
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Am I savage is one of my favorites on the album, though. If I had to cut stuff from the album, some of the tracks from the second disc would go, but Am I savage needs to stay.
Definitely the best riff on the album underneath the solo. This one and Here Comes Revenge don’t get enough credit imo
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Love Hardwired! I agree that ManUNkind isn't great. Goid but not great. I can imagine though, Lars struggling with that song during the recording sessions.
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1. Hardwired
2. Atlas Rise
3. Now That We're Dead
4. Moth Into Flame
5. Dream No More
6. Halo On Fire
7. Confusion
8. Spit Out The Bone
Up there with Ride, Master and Black for me if it came out like that. But I like the whole thing anyway. I always liked their slower groovier Reload style songs.
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1. Hardwired
2. Atlas Rise
3. Now That We're Dead
4. Moth Into Flame
5. Dream No More
6. Halo On Fire
7. Confusion
8. Spit Out The Bone
Yup. That's my version too.
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1. Hardwired
2. Atlas Rise
3. Now That We're Dead
4. Moth Into Flame
5. Dream No More
6. Halo On Fire
7. Confusion
8. Spit Out The Bone
Up there with Ride, Master and Black for me if it came out like that. But I like the whole thing anyway. I always liked their slower groovier Reload style songs.
Replace Confusion with either Am I Savage? And I’m in.
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Also - i've never thought And Justice For All was great. Especially not following Master of Puppets.
And Justice for All & St Anger. Their two worst sounding albums and both were the first albums released after losing a bass player.
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For all their flaws, I'd actually put Death Magnetic as their worst sounding album. I would say Justice and Anger were chosen to sound that way (poorly in one of them at least) but it seems they were actually trying to sound good on DM but didn't notice how brickwalled it all was.
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The approach to the mix of ...AJFA will never not make me shake my head.
"Hey, let's haze the new bass player by mixing the new record to where no one can hear him, and in the process hurt the sound and quality of our music!"
"Great idea!"
:lol :lol :lol
Seriously, is there another example of a rock or metal band who intentionally (by their own later admission) went out of their way to hurt the sound of their music because they wanted to haze a new member?
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1. Hardwired
2. Atlas Rise
3. Now That We're Dead
4. Moth Into Flame
5. Dream No More
6. Halo On Fire
7. Confusion
8. Spit Out The Bone
Yup. That's my version too.
...and mine!
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Love Hardwired! I agree that ManUNkind isn't great. Goid but not great. I can imagine though, Lars struggling with that song during the recording sessions.
Yes, I can imagine that too...there are some ok parts in the song, but mostly it's a bit of a chore to get through. It's alright when it actually grooves, but when it doesn't, well, Lars sounds a bit like those YT videos with drummers doing parodies of his style ;)
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Hey, no one touch Here Comes Revenge.
Here Comes Revenge is my favorite of that 4-song run after Confusion, but imo it could greatly benefit from some trimming. Doesn't need to be 7+ minutes long. There's a much punchier 4:30-5 minute song in there.
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I'll try to cut it down to eight songs.
1. Hardwired
2. Atlas Rise
3. Now That We're Dead
4. Moth Into Flame
5. Halo on fire
6. Confusion
7. Am I savage
8. Spit out the bone
This would have been be a top 5 Metallica album, most likely.
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The approach to the mix of ...AJFA will never not make me shake my head.
"Hey, let's haze the new bass player by mixing the new record to where no one can hear him, and in the process hurt the sound and quality of our music!"
"Great idea!"
:lol :lol :lol
Seriously, is there another example of a rock or metal band who intentionally (by their own later admission) went out of their way to hurt the sound of their music because they wanted to haze a new member?
Regarding the mix on AJFA, having listened to most of the isolated bass tracks, there was more to the bass being lowered than hazing. Jason’s tone was thin and treble heavy, and I tried to put his bass back into the mix and it just didn’t work. The guitar tone was very bass heavy as is (another problem) and there was no sonic space for Jason’s weak bass tone. I chalk up the bassless mix more to production inexperience than hazing.
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I chalk up the bassless mix more to production inexperience than hazing.
I could believe that if this was their second album. But this was their fourth album, and third with Flemming Rasmussen. Could the bass and guitar tones contributed to it? Sure. But there are some of those "And Justice for Jason" tracks where the original bass stem has been added to the album version, and they sound much better. So I disagree.
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The approach to the mix of ...AJFA will never not make me shake my head.
"Hey, let's haze the new bass player by mixing the new record to where no one can hear him, and in the process hurt the sound and quality of our music!"
"Great idea!"
:lol :lol :lol
Seriously, is there another example of a rock or metal band who intentionally (by their own later admission) went out of their way to hurt the sound of their music because they wanted to haze a new member?
Honest question, because I'm not a huge Met-head, but I listened to them on the Howard Stern show this past week (it was a replay of when they appeared around the time of the Through The Never release, and while James answered some tough questions from Howard honestly (and awkwardly, in an endearing way) there was a lot of sarcasm and joking around. I've never really been comfortable with the "hazing" as a direct and complete answer for the "why" of AJFA. I honestly felt that it might actually been their way of taking some heat off of Jason (whether rightly or wrongly deserved).
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Well, what's the question? :lol
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Well, what's the question? :lol
Sorry, I was playing reverse Jeopardy.
Do we know it was actually hazing, or was that a tongue-in-cheek response by the band to a question they otherwise didn't want to answer?
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I thought James was on the record somewhere about it but a quick search hasn't found any conclusive proof. Lots of questions from interviewers about the "hazing", though, so the literal idea of it being that must have arisen formally at some point.
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I see it put as "hazing" sometimes, but just going off memory, I can't think of them describing it really in that casual of a way. My sense was always that it was more about them having trouble thinking of anyone replacing Cliff and sort of turning down the bass until they couldn't hear anyone else's playing where his would have been. It's not good audio production practice, but I think it's a very natural human response to a sudden loss. But maybe I'm wrong and it really was more on the order what a college fraternity does to new members, which is how I think of "hazing."
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I see it put as "hazing" sometimes, but just going off memory, I can't think of them describing it really in that casual of a way. My sense was always that it was more about them having trouble thinking of anyone replacing Cliff and sort of turning down the bass until they couldn't hear anyone else's playing where his would have been. It's not good audio production practice, but I think it's a very natural human response to a sudden loss. But maybe I'm wrong and it really was more on the order what a college fraternity does to new members, which is how I think of "hazing."
That plus probably a degree of not trusting the new guy and trying to hide him sounds like the most logical explanation to me. I don't think they were "hazing" Jason or outright attacking him - after all they chose him when they probably could have gone with a number of bassists - but they probably were still reluctant to change, at least subconsciously, and lowering the bass makes that change less evident.
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Unboxing of the Black Album mega-uber-deluxe version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Uw7B5cJ_Q
Not that I see much of a point with these types of videos in general, but this popped up, and I thought it was cool that Jason did it...
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The Black Album has never sold less than 1,000 copies each and every week in 30 years. Now this version is out I expect Jason to get a nice fat royalty payment.
Hasn't it already sold somewhere around 30 million copies ?
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Unboxing of the Black Album mega-uber-deluxe version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Uw7B5cJ_Q
Not that I see much of a point with these types of videos in general, but this popped up, and I thought it was cool that Jason did it...
I watched that; it was really cool. And what a set! Not that I'm buying it, but still. Didn't know it was Jason at first.
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Unboxing of the Black Album mega-uber-deluxe version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Uw7B5cJ_Q
Not that I see much of a point with these types of videos in general, but this popped up, and I thought it was cool that Jason did it...
He's always been my favorite member. Such a fun dude who always flew the flag for Metal and Metallica. As for not much of a point to these videos, I don't know. It's one thing to read about the contents. But, to see the contents unboxed, especially by someone who lived it, is pretty cool. I've gotten MOP and AJFA so far. This one's a little pricier but this was the first Metallica album for which I was a fan and could buy on release day. So, it holds a special place in my musical journey. I think this one is a "must acquire" for me.
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He's always been my favorite member. Such a fun dude who always flew the flag for Metal and Metallica. As for not much of a point to these videos, I don't know. It's one thing to read about the contents. But, to see the contents unboxed, especially by someone who lived it, is pretty cool. I've gotten MOP and AJFA so far. This one's a little pricier but this was the first Metallica album for which I was a fan and could buy on release day. So, it holds a special place in my musical journey. I think this one is a "must acquire" for me.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm an absolute sucker for stuff like this, especially if they are put together so well. And you are right, in this particular case, seeing someone who was involved and is clearly into reliving the memories like Jason, is a treat.
Metallica does a fantastic job with the box sets. I have AFJA and I love it. I'm seriously thinking about getting this one.
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Trapped Under Ice is so aggravating. I like the song, but Lars hitting the crash early frustrates me to no end.
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Is it for Ride or Master where Lars actually went away and got some lessons ?
Anyway it's September 01 on Wednesday. The album will be out soon.
I can't wait to hear how Sad But True sounds remastered...
and THAT riff in The Struggle Within. You know the one.
" GO ! " Dunna Nerr. Dunna Ner. Dunna Ner.. DaNaNaDaNaNADunnaNer !! "
Easily the best riff on The Black Album.
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and THAT riff in The Struggle Within. You know the one.
" GO ! " Dunna Nerr. Dunna Ner. Dunna Ner.. DaNaNaDaNaNADunnaNer !! "
Easily the best riff on The Black Album.
:metal :metal I love that riff!
I'm excited to hear how the remaster comes out. The tracks that they put out sounded really good.
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I A/B'd The original Enter Sandman with the 2021 version and the new one sounds great. A hair louder. A touch punchier and a soupcon more high end.
Not like a lot of anniversary remasters which are TURN UP THE VOLUME AND TREBLE !!!! :tdwn
When they CAN make great sonic choices still it's a wonder how Death magnetic ended up so bad.
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The ending trio of songs on TBA are severely underappreciated. That riff in Struggle Within is indeed the best on the album (or perhaps equal to the bridge of Through The Never)
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The main Sad But True riff is the best on the album IMO. It’s just so damn heavy.
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The last four songs on The Black Album were what sold me on the album when I finally got into them in 1996.
That said, I have zero interest in hearing this new version. The original sounds great, and I have zero faith in Metallica to do this one right given how poor all of their studio albums this century have sounded from a sound quality standpoint.
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The last four songs on The Black Album were what sold me on the album when I finally got into them in 1996.
Agreed. TBA was what unlocked the world of metal for me, and I always connected with the last 4 songs the most. Misery is my favorite song from the album and Kirk’s solo from God was always one of my favs from him.
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The God That Failed has always ben a huge favourite of mine. Not only on that album, but in their entire catalogue.
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I haven't listened to this album in years truthfully. I may splurge and pick this new remaster up.
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The last four songs on The Black Album were what sold me on the album when I finally got into them in 1996.
That said, I have zero interest in hearing this new version. The original sounds great, and I have zero faith in Metallica to do this one right given how poor all of their studio albums this century have sounded from a sound quality standpoint.
Have you heard the new Enter Sandman they put out ? It sounds great. *** And Whilst St Anger and Death Magnetic were not the best sonically - Hardwired to Self Destruct sounds really good.
Almost like Garage Inc Disc 1 or The Black Album with less reverb. Not sure how anyone could say Hardwired To Self Destruct has bad production.
Check out Hardwired : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhBHL3v4d3I
*** - I was also worried that it would just be louder and tinnier but it sounds really warm and big.
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The God That Failed has always ben a huge favourite of mine. Not only on that album, but in their entire catalogue.
Same, love that song.
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Oh and St Anger is a masterpiece compared to the new Offspring album :lolpalm: They're so awful now.
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The last four songs on The Black Album were what sold me on the album when I finally got into them in 1996.
Agreed. TBA was what unlocked the world of metal for me, and I always connected with the last 4 songs the most. Misery is my favorite song from the album and Kirk’s solo from God was always one of my favs from him.
The God That Failed has always ben a huge favourite of mine. Not only on that album, but in their entire catalogue.
:tup :tup to both of these posts.
I remember when I first got into them and asked a couple of friends I worked with at the time about those deep cuts, both of whom I knew were Metallica fans, and they both looked at me like I had two heads when I mentioned the songs by their names. I have a feeling they only listened to the hits. :facepalm: :facepalm:
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Oh and St Anger is a masterpiece compared to the new Offspring album :lolpalm: They're so awful now.
As horrible as that album is, I have to disagree.
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All the crap people throw at Green Day for their last album when it was 26 minutes of well produced well played and sung pop punk rock and actually a great album imo...
should be thrown at Weezer and Offspring. Weezer haven't done anything good in YEARS. They're like a worse Foo Fighters who exist for gimmicks and dont focus on making
a great album. Even though Medicine At Midnight was their best album in 10 years. . . They do LOVE their gimmicks.
And now Weezer want to release a QUADRUPLE album in 2022. Sigh
So yeah - Father Of All... Actually a great little album. Let The Bad Times Roll - dreadful. Anything Weezer put out - Awful.
I mean Father Of All...has THIS absolute gem on it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urtys41D0RI
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All the crap people throw at Green Day for their last album when it was 26 minutes of well produced well played and sung pop punk rock and actually a great album imo...
should be thrown at Weezer and Offspring. Weezer haven't done anything good in YEARS. They're like a worse Foo Fighters who exist for gimmicks and dont focus on making
a great album. Even though Medicine At Midnight was their best album in 10 years. . . They do LOVE their gimmicks.
And now Weezer want to release a QUADRUPLE album in 2022. Sigh
So yeah - Father Of All... Actually a great little album. Let The Bad Times Roll - dreadful. Anything Weezer put out - Awful.
I mean Father Of All...has THIS absolute gem on it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urtys41D0RI
What the hell does this have to do with Metallica?
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Thought I was in the wrong thread for a minute.
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The Black Album might be one of the best sounding hard rock albums of all time. Why would I buy it again?
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The Black Album might be one of the best sounding hard rock albums of all time. Why would I buy it again?
This is true. you've convinced me not to splash cash on this.
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The Black Album might be one of the best sounding hard rock albums of all time. Why would I buy it again?
Exactly. No need. I mean, few bands seem to love money more than Metallica, but that doesn't mean we have to throw more in the pile, right?
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The Black Album might be one of the best sounding hard rock albums of all time. Why would I buy it again?
Exactly. No need. I mean, few bands seem to love money more than Metallica, but that doesn't mean we have to throw more in the pile, right?
Yeah thats why their fan club is free and they put pro shot and pro mixed live videos on you tube for free.
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All the crap people throw at Green Day for their last album when it was 26 minutes of well produced well played and sung pop punk rock and actually a great album imo...
should be thrown at Weezer and Offspring. Weezer haven't done anything good in YEARS. They're like a worse Foo Fighters who exist for gimmicks and dont focus on making
a great album. Even though Medicine At Midnight was their best album in 10 years. . . They do LOVE their gimmicks.
And now Weezer want to release a QUADRUPLE album in 2022. Sigh
So yeah - Father Of All... Actually a great little album. Let The Bad Times Roll - dreadful. Anything Weezer put out - Awful.
I mean Father Of All...has THIS absolute gem on it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urtys41D0RI
What the hell does this have to do with Metallica?
St Anger - Bob Rock - Bob Rock Produced the new Offspring album. Which is probably worse sounding.
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He's probably just old and senile.
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But he produced the last Bryan Adams album and that sounds fine. When I heard "Let The Bad Times Roll" I thought it was about to 'kick in' at any moment.
It sounds like a bad demo.
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Random thought: I was listening to TBA on my bike ride today and was wondering if the "so be it" part of Don't Tread On Me was specifically written to sound like "Soviet". Kind of fits with the whole patriotic vibe and acts as a subtle "fuck you" to the Soviet Union which collapsed the year the album came out. Probably a coincidence but I can't not hear "Soviet" instead of "so be it" anymore.
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Also you can hear it best on the album version of Sandman but if you imagine James singing
' Dreams Of War, Dream Of Liars, Dreams of Dragons Fire and of Baked Apple Pie, Yeah! "
It 100% sounds like he sings that. ;D
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"You know it's sand patrol!"
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I still think he should've kept one of the outtakes.
"Dreams of war, dreams of liars, dreams of dragons fire....and of things that will bite....woman!"
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The Black Album might be one of the best sounding hard rock albums of all time. Why would I buy it again?
Exactly. No need. I mean, few bands seem to love money more than Metallica, but that doesn't mean we have to throw more in the pile, right?
Say what you want about Metallica. But, they are quite possibly the most fan-friendly band out there. Remember the four 30th Anniversary shows they did San Fran's Fillmore in 2011? They sold 4-packs (one ticket per show) for $19.81 to commemorate the year they were formed. I challenge anyone to name another band as big as Metallica that would do something like that. The place holds less than 1,500 people! They could've easily sold those tickets for $50-100 each and nobody would've said a bad word about it. Or, the snakepit section of the arenas/stadiums on the Black Album tour specifically for people wanting to tape the shows? They may put out some expensive items such as their vinyl box sets. However, everything they put out is quality. They don't do anything half-assed. Obviously, I'm not talking about St. Anger or Lulu. But, you know what I mean.
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Also you can hear it best on the album version of Sandman but if you imagine James singing
' Dreams Of War, Dream Of Liars, Dreams of Dragons Fire and of Baked Apple Pie, Yeah! "
:lol :lol :lol
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Is anyone else listening to the Black Album podcast? It's been fun to hear the band and those around them, or in the industry, talk about how they wrote and recorded the album.
http://link.chtbl.com/metallica?fbclid=IwAR0tEbQaKSucW31V6RisSEegZ8FY-XAS_AMXMd-bsL4odGXOTfNfN4SIoxI
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It seems a lot of people think that money-making endeavors carried out by a band’s management come directly from the band themselves. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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It seems a lot of people think that money-making endeavors carried out by a band’s management come directly from the band themselves. Nothing could be further from the truth.
It's just smart business for either them or their management team.
Right now, I'm looking at Stubhub regarding their 40th anniversary shows the tickets (which is priced on Stubhub by the ticket owners, not the band) are being relisted for at least $225.00 for the nosebleed seats. Everyone knows damn well that it's going to be a very highly sought out ticket. Basic supply and demand concept.
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I long for the day that those 2nd hand (aka official scalping) ticket sellers (which are directly affiliated with TickerBastard…a total conflict of interests) is investigated and put out of business.
I don’t know who they are blowing…but they must be good at it.
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I long for the day that those 2nd hand (aka official scalping) ticket sellers (which are directly affiliated with TickerBastard…a total conflict of interests) is investigated and put out of business.
I don’t know who they are blowing…but they must be good at it.
I understand why those websites exist, as being able to sell tickets to an event you can no longer attend is very helpful, but it should be illegal to resell tickets past a certain price higher than face value.
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I long for the day that those 2nd hand (aka official scalping) ticket sellers (which are directly affiliated with TickerBastard…a total conflict of interests) is investigated and put out of business.
I don’t know who they are blowing…but they must be good at it.
I understand why those websites exist, as being able to sell tickets to an event you can no longer attend is very helpful, but it should be illegal to resell tickets past a certain price higher than face value.
But they are owned by the people that sell the tickets…and they sell them TO THEMSELVES (essentially…it’s a business model “shell game”) before the public can, and then mark up the price and keep the profit. It’s freaking criminal.
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Here's a question.
Therapy? and Metallica both got new members around 2002 / 2003 - ish.
Neil from Therapy? will have been in the band 20 years next year and I still feel like he's the new guy. New as in recent.
Whilst Rob is just Rob from Metallica to me now. When I think of Metallica I think of Rob.
Are there any bands were they've had a "new" member for around 20 years - that feel like they literally only just joined or you still can't get used to them replacing the former guy ?
I think it's really telling also that Metallica have had 3 bass players in their 40 years whilst Megadeth have had over 20 different line ups. Also Green Day have been the same three guys
for pretty much 30 years. It shows which bands get along behind the scenes and who don't. I guess that Lars Ulrich is not as hard to get along with as Dave Mustaine...
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Say what you want about Metallica. But, they are quite possibly the most fan-friendly band out there. Remember the four 30th Anniversary shows they did San Fran's Fillmore in 2011? They sold 4-packs (one ticket per show) for $19.81 to commemorate the year they were formed. I challenge anyone to name another band as big as Metallica that would do something like that. The place holds less than 1,500 people! They could've easily sold those tickets for $50-100 each and nobody would've said a bad word about it. Or, the snakepit section of the arenas/stadiums on the Black Album tour specifically for people wanting to tape the shows? They may put out some expensive items such as their vinyl box sets. However, everything they put out is quality. They don't do anything half-assed. Obviously, I'm not talking about St. Anger or Lulu. But, you know what I mean.
Eh, it's easy to do something like that on occasion when you are as a big as they are. Granted, a lot of bands do not do it, but let's not act like they are the only one. Heck, U2 at their peak, in the early 90's, kept ticket prices really low for the Zoo TV tour for the fans to where I think they lost money on one of the legs. I like Metallica, but when I think in my head of the most fan-friendly bands or artists, they are not one that ever comes to mind.
And everything Metallica puts out is quality? Uh, no. The poor sound quality of all three of their albums this century says otherwise. The DR numbers* on all three are atrocious. If someone likes brickwalled messes, that is fine. But the numbers do not lie.
*And there is more to do it than DR numbers, yes, but when the numbers of the original CD's are all as poor as they were for St Anger, Death Magnetic and Hardwired, it is hard to find other ways to say they sounded good.
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The idea that Metallica are only about money is about 20 years out of date. As is the idea that Lars is nothing but a douchebag.
Since the SKOM movie I haven't seen or read one bad thing about him. And in interviews all 4 band members are really self-deprecating about their abilities.
Pre SKOM Lars ? Yes. Since 2003? No. Not at all.
I remember I saw one meet and greet video years ago where a fan handed Lars a CD of his band to listen to.
Later on the CD is being played on the PA before Metallica go on stage. Doesn't sound like something a huge douchebag would do.
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Since the SKOM movie I haven't seen or read one bad thing about him. And in interviews all 4 band members are really self-deprecating about their abilities.
Reading this back reminded me about a quote I heard from Dave Mustaine FROM THIS YEAR...
He was asked who the best Rhythm Guitarists in all of rock were and he said Angus Young, James Hetfield and Myself.
That's why Megadeth have had 20 + lineups. Honestly I think all the flak that Lars has to put up with - should be directed at Mustaine.
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Here's a question.
Therapy? and Metallica both got new members around 2002 / 2003 - ish.
Neil from Therapy? will have been in the band 20 years next year and I still feel like he's the new guy. New as in recent.
Whilst Rob is just Rob from Metallica to me now. When I think of Metallica I think of Rob.
Are there any bands were they've had a "new" member for around 20 years - that feel like they literally only just joined or you still can't get used to them replacing the former guy ?
I think it's really telling also that Metallica have had 3 bass players in their 40 years whilst Megadeth have had over 20 different line ups. Also Green Day have been the same three guys
for pretty much 30 years. It shows which bands get along behind the scenes and who don't. I guess that Lars Ulrich is not as hard to get along with as Dave Mustaine...
Hmmm...this is an interesting idea/question.
Honestly, the first person to come to mind is Mangini. Now, the man obviously doesn't have 20 years with the band, but I think that 5 albums is a healthy investment into someone's career, but I still have a difficult time not thinking of him as the 'new guy.'
This probably has more to do with me and my stage in life than anything else, but the whole MP split still sorta feels like yesterday.
That being said, the more time goes by, the more I appreciate what Mangini has brought to the band. In fact, I've probably listened to more DT this past year than in the past 20 years, so obviously the band is doing something right...at least for me.
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Hmmm...this is an interesting idea/question.
Honestly, the first person to come to mind is Mangini. Now, the man obviously doesn't have 20 years with the band, but I think that 5 albums is a healthy investment into someone's career, but I still have a difficult time not thinking of him as the 'new guy.'
This probably has more to do with me and my stage in life than anything else, but the whole MP split still sorta feels like yesterday.
That being said, the more time goes by, the more I appreciate what Mangini has brought to the band. In fact, I've probably listened to more DT this past year than in the past 20 years, so obviously the band is doing something right...at least for me.
It is a tough spot to replace either the legacy guy (Portnoy) or the guy who was there during a band's most successful era (Newsted), and it feels like both Mangini and Trujillo have both handled it as well as could be expected.
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Trujillo has had a great effect on Metallica IMO. He's an old school guy and can look them in the eye and snuff out and bullshit.
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From day one I just felt like Rob was absolutely the perfect fit in Metallica. Maybe it was just because I knew him from all the way back in his days as the Suicidal Tendencies bass player and then later in the Infectious Grooves. It just felt like they were bringing on someone from their own peer group and not an unknown kid from nowhere. He may not have been as well known, but it just felt like it was “meant to be” even though that’s obviously a vague term.
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From day one I just felt like Rob was absolutely the perfect fit in Metallica. Maybe it was just because I knew him from all the way back in his days as the Suicidal Tendencies bass player and then later in the Infectious Grooves. It just felt like they were bringing on someone from their own peer group and not an unknown kid from nowhere. He may not have been as well known, but it just felt like it was “meant to be” even though that’s obviously a vague term.
Yes, exactly. And I don't think that the direction of their last two albums are a coincidence.
They can't bullshit him.
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From day one I just felt like Rob was absolutely the perfect fit in Metallica. Maybe it was just because I knew him from all the way back in his days as the Suicidal Tendencies bass player and then later in the Infectious Grooves. It just felt like they were bringing on someone from their own peer group and not an unknown kid from nowhere. He may not have been as well known, but it just felt like it was “meant to be” even though that’s obviously a vague term.
Yes, exactly. And I don't think that the direction of their last two albums are a coincidence.
They can't bullshit him.
Well, and to shore up your point even further, one could make a pretty reasonable argument that he is currently the most technically proficient member of that band right now.
As good a song writer as James is, he just writes good riffs, but doesn’t play leads. Lars playing…while unique…has always been under scrutiny. And Kirk tends to just wah wah wah all the way home.
Rob is a very decent, diverse, technical skill player. He’s not being utilized to his full potential in Metallica…but that guy has got skills.
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If you watch the making of the Hardwired album - Rob is dropping ideas all over the place. It's a shame he's only got one writing credit on the album.
You'd think James and Lars were old enough to say " lets split everything 4 ways " like U2 - who have split everything 25% from the early days.
It just makes sense. None of that " I changed one note in your riff so now it's my riff and you get zero credit. "
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If you watch the making of the Hardwired album - Rob is dropping ideas all over the place. It's a shame he's only got one writing credit on the album.
You'd think James and Lars were old enough to say " lets split everything 4 ways " like U2 - who have split everything 25% from the early days.
It just makes sense. None of that " I changed one note in your riff so now it's my riff and you get zero credit. "
I wouldn't think that. Why would I think that? Every band dynamic is different, and every situation demands a different approach.
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As far as I know, outside of the creative process, Metallica do split things 25% etc. But creatively speaking, it's the James/Lars show with the occasional contribution by Kirk/Bassist. Not sure what age has to do with that.
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Can I just say, I f*ckin' love Jason Newsted! I know he can't tour like he did then. But, I'd love to have him back in the band. He brought an energy that they haven't really had since. For anyone interested, here's a link to a few segments of an podcast interview he did on Talk Toomey. You can also find the podcast anywhere you get podcasts.
https://knotfest.com/category/series/talk-toomey/ (https://knotfest.com/category/series/talk-toomey/)
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Love Jason too! Really miss his backing vocals live. He definitely brought the energy. They toured relentlessly, especially during the Black album era.
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Jason was 100% the most down to earth during the entire 90s.
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https://open.spotify.com/album/7h5xn0Olvx2p0eQcSt1Osy
It's out. Is it me or does Sad But True sound a bit crispy ? I was expecting a thick slab but sounds quite a bit tinny.Might be my headphones.
I'll have to listen on my speakers in the morning.
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I haven't paid much attention to the whole "Blacklist" thing because I'm not interested in most of the artists and I'm not usually crazy about cover albums, but I've sort of gotten hooked on The Warning lately and I thought their cover of Enter Sandman (https://youtu.be/9tKQgesCcTc) with Alessia Cara was really cool. Convinced me to at least check out some of the other Blacklist songs.
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https://open.spotify.com/album/7h5xn0Olvx2p0eQcSt1Osy
It's out. Is it me or does Sad But True sound a bit crispy ? I was expecting a thick slab but sounds quite a bit tinny.Might be my headphones.
I'll have to listen on my speakers in the morning.
Listening on my studio monitors now and it does sound less fizzy on them. Probably just my headphones.
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So after a lifelong commitment to avoid box sets from any artists, calling them "dust collectors" and secretly making fun of the "suckers" who buy them, I caved in and joined the suckers club. Well, not really cause this was a gift, but it was a gift that I chose.
I bought all the remasters since they started releasing them on Blackened Records, this is my first big deluxe box set though, while I usually avoid buying anything that has the word "deluxe" on it, this one I thought was super worth it upon announcement!
I always knew that if I was ever gonna get one of these boxes, it was gonna be the Black Album one, since it's the era where they started recording SBD audio of their shows regularly and it was also the era where they started playing venues big enough to have display screens, and where there's display screens, there's pro-shot footage of the show.
It came in yesterday and I've been enjoying the hell out of it! The quality of the two audio shows I've heard so far is mind blowing for an old Metallica bootleg collectors such as myself, we've had some great sounding audio bootlegs from that period sure, and there's even the professionally recorded and mixed Mexico City shows from Live Shit, but the stuff here kinda takes the cake, maybe it's uniqueness stems from the fact that I'm hearing new professionally recorded and mixed audio from this tour for the first time after so many years.
One of the audio shows that I immediately jumped to upon opening the box, was the Moscow 91 show. So for those who don't know; this show has quite a bit of significance in Metallica's history and among pre-youtube bootleg collectors, but that's a long story concerning the video footage of that show and I can write about it if anybody's interested.
But the importance and iconic status of the clips released on the For Those About To Rock VHS from that show, gave the audio bootleg a lot of value too. Now the full audio bootleg of that show was not rare, but it sounded shitty as fuck. Outside of that bootleg we had Creeping Death pro-recorded audio from the show from the b-side of the Sad But True single, we had Last Caress, Am I Evil and Battery from the b-side of the Roam single and I personally ripped the audio from the video footage of Sandman and Fade to Black from the For Those About to Rock VHS and also ripped the audio from the famous Harvester clip which was released on the Year & Half in the Life.
So after all this stitching to get an incomplete yet decent sounding version of this show for years, having and listening to it now, sounding so good, is such cool thing.
I haven't jumped on the DVD's yet, they were a huge selling point for me, new pro-shot footage from TBA era! I won't get my hopes too high on the quality of the camera work since these will most probably be coming from the in-house display screens and the people who operate these cameras usually don't give a fuck about entertainment value or musical cues heh
/nerd-rant
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Very cool - I'm hoping to get this as a gift at some point too... ;)
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E--Ua89VEAEJpWa?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E--UZuzVgAEKv51?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
A couple pics of the band from Last Night I think ( September 10 )... Great to see James looking so well after bloated James from S&M2.
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Saw Metallica on Stern and seeing James reaction to Elton John praising Nothing Else Matters was so sweet, he looked genuinely emotional.
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;D If it was Elton praising a MegaDeth song I can totally hear Mustaine going " Well yeah. *I* Wrote it..." .
I watched them playing Nothing Else Matters with Miley Cyrus. She has a great ROCK voice!! Better than her Daddy anyway ! :rollin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wofWGD5TUxo
Here's the Elton John video btw... James looks like he's welling up.
.
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I genuinely think Nothing Else Matters is a great song but man hearing Kirk play a sloppy intro after all these years playing that damn tune is just... :-\ And why did Lars start early with the HH and why is he still so inconsistent with his Hi-Hat playing... It's so funny since I know they still actually rehearse. I love them but they need a producer to clean up their playing live but it's been this way for ages and will most likely never change.
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I prefer hearing real musicians play live than guys who have everything on MIDI or backing tracks and their laptop changes their guitar tuning in between songs etc etc.
Imagine playing the exact same gig every night. Literally the exact same gig. It starts at 0:00. The laptop does everything for you and you have to line up perfectly in time for 45 minutes.
That would be so boring. With bands like that you may as well just put the CD through the PA.
Trivium aren't that bad but they all use Kempers. Even Paolo. So they don't need to soundcheck anymore.
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I prefer hearing real musicians play live than guys who have everything on MIDI or backing tracks and their laptop changes their guitar tuning in between songs etc etc.
So if you play your parts sloppy it means you're a more "real" musician? :P They CAN play better than that if they sit down and practice and focus which has nothing to do with lack of backingtracks. When they rehearse they pretty much just jam and don't give much thought into how they can improve their playing and sound. It's been this way for years and will never change.
One thing though, when things sounds too good live these days it's usually tinkered with afterwards and that's something i'm a bit iffy about which honestly is about 90% of everything released on concert dvd today.
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Saw Metallica on Stern and seeing James reaction to Elton John praising Nothing Else Matters was so sweet, he looked genuinely emotional.
That was such a fantastic moment, I loved it. I also enjoyed the Kimmer appearance quite a bit.
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Actually Lars has definitely improved since around 2006 or so. He actually has a click in his ear live and he says in his downtime he's been drumming to songs for practice.
Holier Than Thou Live 2021 (https://youtu.be/7cAGvbP2A0Y)
James sounds a bit tired here - but Lars is tight as fuck. Usually when they're this tight it means theyve been recording. Still hoping for new album news soon.
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Lars has been using a click live?
Since when? I had no idea.
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I think around the new album tour time.
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I think around the new album tour time.
Got a link? I’m just shocked. Seems like such a non-Metallica thing.
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Nah but iI have read it a few times.
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Actually Lars has definitely improved since around 2006 or so. He actually has a click in his ear live and he says in his downtime he's been drumming to songs for practice.
Holier Than Thou Live 2021 (https://youtu.be/7cAGvbP2A0Y)
James sounds a bit tired here - but Lars is tight as fuck. Usually when they're this tight it means theyve been recording. Still hoping for new album news soon.
Actually hearing that it do seem like he has someone shouting in-ear to "keep up the tempo Lars!". :lol
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;D If it was Elton praising a MegaDeth song I can totally hear Mustaine going " Well yeah. *I* Wrote it..." .
I watched them playing Nothing Else Matters with Miley Cyrus. She has a great ROCK voice!! Better than her Daddy anyway ! :rollin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wofWGD5TUxo
Here's the Elton John video btw... James looks like he's welling up.
This was such a great moment. So nice to see. Gotta love James. He really is one of the coolest active rock stars (broadly defined) and still feels like he's an incredibly genuine person...what do I know, of course :biggrin: It's just how he comes across, though...
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I prefer hearing real musicians play live than guys who have everything on MIDI or backing tracks and their laptop changes their guitar tuning in between songs etc etc.
Didn’t you used to run your performances through midi for this exact reason?
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I genuinely think Nothing Else Matters is a great song but man hearing Kirk play a sloppy intro after all these years playing that damn tune is just... :-\ And why did Lars start early with the HH and why is he still so inconsistent with his Hi-Hat playing.
I just watched the performance yesterday. And, I couldn't agree more. Kirk's intro was just lazy. I know he's played it probably 500-1,000 times live, but c'mon, man! Your performance is gonna be viewed all over the world. Put a little life into it! And, Lars coming in early threw me off, too.
I have total respect for Miley and her rock performances. She definitely comes across as genuine. And, the chick can sing! But, was she using a teleprompter? A few of her lines seemed a little off more than just because it was live. Plus, she was definitely looking in the direction of the wedges more than I would've expected.
Entertaining, for sure. Though, nothing beats a true Metallica live version of NEM, like when, right before James does the outro solo, he kicks over the stool he's leaning against and just starts to rip.
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I prefer hearing real musicians play live than guys who have everything on MIDI or backing tracks and their laptop changes their guitar tuning in between songs etc etc.
Didn’t you used to run your performances through midi for this exact reason?
What me personally ? No ???
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I couldn’t find anything about Lars playing to a click other than people saying they think it’s true.
But I watched them do NEM on Howard and Holier/Roam on Kimmel and either Lars is playing to a click or get got VERY tight and controlled all of the sudden.
I’ve seen a lot of shows on YT from their Hardwired tour and his tempo is all over the place. So if he’s playing to a click, it’s quite recent.
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Him being really tight usually means they've been tracking for ages. And they 100% record to a click.
When they came out of the studio for St Anger - they were tight as HELL.
I think they've been recording a LOT more than they're letting on and a new album will be out sooner than later.
They're in Black Album mode at the moment but I think next March is not too unreasonable. Hardwired was almost a surprise release.
Just months of " yeah we're getting there - it's coming along " then BAM that one day in August they dropped the single, the video and ALL the album details.
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Funny that all the comments on Roam / Holier are how "Lars ruined it" whilst praising James - who lets face it - didn't sound great.
Lars sounds great and gets trashed and James sounds weak ( probably just tired or not warmed up enough ) and gets praised.
Even if Lars bought back the white 9 piece and played like he did in 1991 again - people would still bash him LOL NAPSTER AMIRITE
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I prefer hearing real musicians play live than guys who have everything on MIDI or backing tracks and their laptop changes their guitar tuning in between songs etc etc.
Didn’t you used to run your performances through midi for this exact reason?
What me personally ? No ???
I must be misremembering then. Apologies.
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Is Metallica working on a new album right now??
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Supposedly they've been working on one at least sporadically for a while.
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Yes and they're usually tight as hell when they are.
Plus James voice is really tired compared to this time last year when he sounded great. I'm hoping it's cause he's doing vocals all day.
Or he may just have a cold. But yeah he sounds tired.
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" I miss Cliff Burton "
- people born in 2001
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TRIPLE POST !!!
But damn James looks so much better now than he did for S&M2. If he dyed his hair again he'd look about 10 years younger...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E--UXXGVIAAX6de?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
NOW
(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/W4AHFG/moscow-russia-21st-july-2019-moscow-russia-july-21-2019-james-hetfield-frontman-of-the-american-heavy-metal-band-metallica-performs-at-their-concert-at-the-luzhniki-stadium-gavriil-grigorovtass-credit-itar-tass-news-agencyalamy-live-news-W4AHFG.jpg)
2019
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Holy cow . . . that's good news that he's taking his health seriously - good news for concert-goers too who live off his energy.
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Yeah in S&M2 he just looked OLD and tired. Maybe he was depressed about going back to rehab.
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/lars-ulrich-its-way-too-early-to-talk-about-a-new-metallica-album/
Are you fucking kidding me Lars?
Looks like it’s gonna be more than an 8 year wait for the next one
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I have a new goal of listening to all of the covers on the Metallica Blacklist album. As metal as I may be, there are actually some really cool versions of these songs, and it's pretty neat that none of them really sound like the others. Some really twist the song up into something new and different, some are faithful to the original, but they are all definitely unique.
Props to Metallica (or their management) for coming up with this idea.
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Well, I've done it now. I've pulled the trigger. I got a ticket from Stubhub for their two 40th anniversary shows in San Francisco in December. It's a front row seat in the upper section of the Chase Center as well. Costed me $273.00. Probably will cost me another $400.00 in flight and stay as well, but I always wanted to see a Metallica headlining show at least once, so why not this one! I regret nothing. This may end up being on par with the trips I've done in 2019 and February 2020 to see Alter Bridge.
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That's going to be awesome. I'll be flying into Atlanta to see them in November. I just hope the band stays healthy and avoids covid for these shows to happen. I do feel like planning travel around a concert is somewhat risky these days.
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It is risky, but then again, it's not a far flight from San Francisco and a 7 hour drive to there. Sometimes, we need to take these risks to see where we stand with the pandemic issues and I need something exciting to do and this will do.
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/lars-ulrich-its-way-too-early-to-talk-about-a-new-metallica-album/
Are you fucking kidding me Lars?
Looks like it’s gonna be more than an 8 year wait for the next one
I highly doubt it. they've been in HQ most of this year. I think they're just not getting anyones hopes up and they'll be ready next year sometime.
James says they've got several new songs ready to go.
They dropped "Hardwired" out of the blue one day in August in 2016. I hope they do that again. Not a chance in hell it takes a further 3 years.
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That's going to be awesome. I'll be flying into Atlanta to see them in November. I just hope the band stays healthy and avoids covid for these shows to happen. I do feel like planning travel around a concert is somewhat risky these days.
To add to this, I mean I'm not rooting for the concerts to be cancelled, but it's a nice insurance from Stubhub where if the shows do get cancelled and not rescheduled, I receive a credit worth 120% of the amount I've paid for the impacted event, An extra $55.00 to spend on Stubhub does sound nice. That be a free concert to someone else down the line. That stated, I'm rooting for these shows to happen and if not, well, I may have to find something else to do in San Francisco if I already booked the flight and stay for that weekend.
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/lars-ulrich-its-way-too-early-to-talk-about-a-new-metallica-album/
Are you fucking kidding me Lars?
Looks like it’s gonna be more than an 8 year wait for the next one
I highly doubt it. they've been in HQ most of this year. I think they're just not getting anyones hopes up and they'll be ready next year sometime.
James says they've got several new songs ready to go.
They dropped "Hardwired" out of the blue one day in August in 2016. I hope they do that again. Not a chance in hell it takes a further 3 years.
Agreed, Lars doesn’t want any self-imposed time restrictions.
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That. Plus when they put out Hardwired in 2016 - every interview was why did it take so long and James admitted the band were a bit embarrassed about the wait
and said they actually love to work on new music and forget how much they enjoy release day etc etc and that they promised it wouldnt be as long next time.
Every interview.
Just remember. Hardwired only took 8 years to be released. Guns N Roses fans have had ONE album since Metallica released The Black Album. :rollin
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I'm gonna say that the next Metallica studio album will be out by November NEXT year at the absolute latest.
It SHOULD be out sooner as they've had all of 2020 to start working on it and most of this year too.
We already know they've been trading ideas on Zoom when they couldn't meet in person.
Plus we do know they're in HQ at the moment as a lot of their IG pics are from there.
Finally it probably will be - but I hope Greg Fidelman produces again. Hardwired sounded great.
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That's going to be awesome. I'll be flying into Atlanta to see them in November. I just hope the band stays healthy and avoids covid for these shows to happen. I do feel like planning travel around a concert is somewhat risky these days.
To add to this, I mean I'm not rooting for the concerts to be cancelled, but it's a nice insurance from Stubhub where if the shows do get cancelled and not rescheduled, I receive a credit worth 120% of the amount I've paid for the impacted event, An extra $55.00 to spend on Stubhub does sound nice. That be a free concert to someone else down the line. That stated, I'm rooting for these shows to happen and if not, well, I may have to find something else to do in San Francisco if I already booked the flight and stay for that weekend.
Oh, that's actually pretty awesome. And I don't mean to be a downer with my concerns, I'm in the same boat, but it's in the back of my mind. I've see on twitter fans complain about traveling great distances just to have the concert cancelled last minute. It's the risk we take with concerts these days.
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Well, here's a cool thing that they did. They decided to do a warmup show yesterday in a small club in San Francisco to get ready for their upcoming shows. Announced it the day of, have to buy the tickets at the box office of the venue, cash only. Apparently only costs $20.00 or so.
Here was the setlist. Probably the only times they didn't play Enter Sandman or Nothing Else Matters. Then again, it was only 16 songs (not the 18 they would usually do, so that extra two songs could have been the two big juggernaut hits).
01. "Whiplash" (first time as an opener ever)
02. "Ride the Lightning"
03. "The Memory Remains"
04. "Now That We're Dead"
05. "Holier Than Thou"
06. "No Leaf Clover"
07. "Sad but True"
08. "Moth Into Flame"
09. "Fade to Black"
10. "For Whom the Bell Tolls"
11. "Creeping Death"
12. "One"
13. "Master of Puppets"
Encore:
14. "Battery"
15. "Fuel"
16. "Seek & Destroy"
https://loudwire.com/metallica-secret-san-francisco-show-2021-set-list-video/
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Anything interesting in the tons of TBA extras? I skimmed through them on Amazon, the only difference I noticed was early versions of SBT were faster. Other than that it seems low quality versions of the same songs.
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:o :o So it looks like Lars has DEFINITELY been practicing to a click a lot lately. His timing is VASTLY improved. He's barely rushing accents like he has been for years.
Please keep it up Lars. I love it when you're on form. That plus James has lost a ton of weight and looks almost ten years younger. :tup
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:o :o So it looks like Lars has DEFINITELY been practicing to a click a lot lately. His timing is VASTLY improved. He's barely rushing accents like he has been for years.
Please keep it up Lars.
Definitely better. Also definitely not playing to a click live. :P
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Maybe not live but it shows they've probably been recording to one in the studio for a while... I think the new album is a lot further along than they're letting on.
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Anything interesting in the tons of TBA extras? I skimmed through them on Amazon, the only difference I noticed was early versions of SBT were faster. Other than that it seems low quality versions of the same songs.
The live stuff is great. Full Tushino airfield show. Full 1992 headline show. Full 1993 European festival show. 3 song set from the Freddie Mercury tribute. And some other random live tracks.
The demos and pre production tracks are neat to hear, but the live stuff gets the replay value for me.
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I'm just getting the bog standard single CD editions. basically to replace all my knackered old Jewel Case versions. Except for St Anger ( bonus DVD )
and Death Magnetic ( that cool dug grave effect booklet ).
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I’m still a little irritated that the AJFA Seattle 89 live set has never had an official CD release that I’m aware of.
Didn’t the AJFA boxed set only include it on the LP?
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I’m still a little irritated that the AJFA Seattle 89 live set has never had an official CD release that I’m aware of.
Didn’t the AJFA boxed set only include it on the LP?
Yes...the set comes with a digital download of everything in it (including the Seattle 89 LP) but I, too, am a little bummed they don't have it on CD.
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So I bought Metallica Remastered on CD today :)
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So I bought Metallica Remastered on CD today :)
Also a funny thing I noticed once :
1980s : Kill Em All. Ride The Lightning. Master Of Puppets. And Justice For All
1990s : Metallica. Load. Reload
2000s : St Anger. Death Magnetic
2010s : Hardwired to Self Destruct
if they keep this up - the next album will be in 2030 :lol
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So I bought Metallica Remastered on CD today :)
...and how is it? :)
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I haven't had a proper listen yet but my big headphones make it sound a bit tinny so i'm gonna wait til i can play it through my speakers :)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8beim69tsRg
Metallica Pro Video and Audio : Whiplash from San Fran last week. :)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8beim69tsRg
Metallica Pro Video and Audio : Whiplash from San Fran last week. :)
Some rough drum fills on that one but cool performance overall. The Holier Than Thou they did at a recent show sounded incredible and Lars did an almost perfect job on that song.
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Okay so that performance of Whiplash was . . . . ssssllooooowwww. But I guess it was tight.
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Okay so that performance of Whiplash was . . . . ssssllooooowwww. But I guess it was tight.
I thought the same thing. And tuned down? Seemed like it.
When I was learning to play bass, Whiplash was kind of the gold standard for speed metal songs, and this performance seemed to be lacking in the energy department.
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I'm not ragging on Metallica, because I get it, I really do... but there's a certain irony in playing the song "Whiplash" too slow. :) :)
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It makes you realize how now super fast the studio version is. I guess he’s t trying for more album tempos.
Even though it’s too slow, I’m glad he’s improving his tempo. I wish he’d also improve his actual playing. His fills still need a ton of work. But still, impressive Lars is doing the tempo stuff even when it backfires a bit.
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It makes you realize how now super fast the studio version is. I guess he’s t trying for more album tempos.
Even though it’s too slow, I’m glad he’s improving his tempo. I wish he’d also improve his actual playing. His fills still need a ton of work. But still, impressive Lars is doing the tempo stuff even when it backfires a bit.
Depends on whether it’s double time or not. I can’t always tell if the upbeats or downbeats are being accented. Assuming it is double time, FFWF, DI, and DE are way faster.
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CUH-REEEPING DEEEETH-AHHH! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AMNdYJbocI)
I like the low handheld camera angle - on full screen it makes you feel like you're in the front row. :)
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CUH-REEEPING DEEEETH-AHHH! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AMNdYJbocI)
I like the low handheld camera angle - on full screen it makes you feel like you're in the front row. :)
That one felt slow too, although it seemed like not everyone was on the same page with respect to how fast to play it. And it's really not a song that's difficult to play at or in excess of the album tempo.
Also, and this is petty: What is it that they seem to love so much about the 1950s looking microphones?
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I'm not versed enough to tell the difference in tempos between versions (not without A/B-ing them, which I'm not doing) but those were still pretty cool. Other than a little paunch, Het is still the coolest kid on the block by far.
Can't deny, though: as soon as the solos come, most Metallica songs lose all interest for me. Kirk is just not for me.
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I'm not ragging on Metallica, because I get it, I really do... but there's a certain irony in playing the song "Whiplash" too slow. :) :)
They played Whiplash at this slower, groovier tempo on the Load tour as well, which is also when they first started tuning everything 1/2 step down. I don't really like it as much. Would be so awesome to see Metallica in a small club! Always cool when they do stuff like this.
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CUH-REEEPING DEEEETH-AHHH! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AMNdYJbocI)
I like the low handheld camera angle - on full screen it makes you feel like you're in the front row. :)
IMO, this is the song that has always suffered the most by not having Jason. It's a great song. But, it's just not the same to me without him.
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I'm not ragging on Metallica, because I get it, I really do... but there's a certain irony in playing the song "Whiplash" too slow. :) :)
:lol I don't know for whom is the reason they do it that slow - Lars or Kirk. Depending on your own opinion, Lars has either a) gotten slower with age or b) was never that good to begin with. And, Kirk has definitely slowed a step (or gotten sloppier) in his soloing. He held it together really good on this one until the very end. Then, it seems like the wheels came off the Kirk train.
I'm okay with how they played it. After all, they've been playing this song for 40 frickin' years. And, they're almost 60 years old. They can't possibly play everything as fast as they did 30 years ago. If I were in a small club in Metallica's hometown, they could play nothing but the Load and Reload albums and I don't think I'd complain. Well, maybe not that. But, I'd take a slowed down version of Whiplash for sure. I'd be thrilled they were playing something off KEA.
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CUH-REEEPING DEEEETH-AHHH! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AMNdYJbocI)
I like the low handheld camera angle - on full screen it makes you feel like you're in the front row. :)
IMO, this is the song that has always suffered the most by not having Jason. It's a great song. But, it's just not the same to me without him.
??? It was pretty damn great without him originally.
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CUH-REEEPING DEEEETH-AHHH! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AMNdYJbocI)
I like the low handheld camera angle - on full screen it makes you feel like you're in the front row. :)
IMO, this is the song that has always suffered the most by not having Jason. It's a great song. But, it's just not the same to me without him.
??? It was pretty damn great without him originally.
No doubt. It just doesn't have the same intensity as it once had. Rob is certainly a formidable bass player. I've loved his playing since I discovered him during his time with Suicidal. However, his energy onstage is not his strong suit.
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I don't know. I thought Rob has been great on stage.
The whole band feels a bit understated in the club shows.
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I don't know. I thought Rob has been great on stage.
The whole band feels a bit understated in the club shows.
I think these were supposed to be warm up shows. I wouldn't put too much stock into them.
And they played the entire Black Album backwards yesterday :o
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I don't know. I thought Rob has been great on stage.
The whole band feels a bit understated in the club shows.
I think these were supposed to be warm up shows. I wouldn't put too much stock into them.
And they played the entire Black Album backwards yesterday :o
It feels like they just did that, but apparently it was almost 10 years ago. Time really flies!
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NEM covered by some friends of my country.
https://youtu.be/mhrZfEeBtN4
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Yes they played METALLICA in reverse in 2012 I believe.
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I N F A N T I C I D E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTgI63mlR7s)
:metal
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The Struggle Within Live 2012 (https://youtu.be/hQMUEYahBy8?t=180)
And for comparison
From 2012 (https://youtu.be/g9AmWzqrzL0?t=100)
The 2012 one is so rushed ! :o
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Kirk seems to be struggling to remember the solos these days.
And as much as I like that Lars is keeping better time, I wish he’d stop going as simple as humanly possible and do a FEW cool fills and stuff again.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCNInh_QAFo
Massive 40th Anniversary Apple Music interview.
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Just had a thought.
After the first 20 years - Metallica nearly broke up and Some Kind Of Monster happened and Jason quit.
After the second 20 years - Metallica are bigger and stronger than ever and are working on their eleventh album with their longest serving bass player.
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Just had a thought.
After the first 20 years - Metallica nearly broke up and Some Kind Of Monster happened and Jason quit.
After the second 20 years - Metallica are bigger and stronger than ever and are working on their eleventh album with their longest serving bass player.
Overall, I agree. And it's cool to see bands (like them, Yes and Maiden) working on new music this long into their careers.
But "bigger than ever"? Bigger than '90s Metallica?
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Metallica is bigger than ever in the sense that they have reached the same stratosphere as U2 and The Rolling Stones in that anything they release will do well and they could do a stadium tour without anything new and still sell all or most of them out, but I think it's a given that their days of releasing new music that sticks with the masses for years are long gone. Ask the average person what songs they know the most by Metallica and most will say nothing but songs from the 80s and 90s. Of course, that is true of just about any aging legacy band, so that is not meant to be a knock, more of a reality check.
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Right. But I guess they are "stronger" in the sense of being healthy and very unified.
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According to Wiki - Hardwired...To Self Destruct went to number one in 57 countries and sold nearly 300,000 copies in week 1 and over 2 million Worldwide.
They're still huge.
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Hard to say if they are bigger than ever, I just think they are just as big as they were. This type of music doesn't break the radio (or MTV) like it used to but still sells and the people still show up in masses to see them live. I'd still say they are the biggest metal band of all time and of current as well for those reasons.
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F R A N T I C ! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIzny7ZKI74)
Whatever they're doing I hope they keep doing it. They're tight as fuck. Just a shame James has good and bad days vocally.
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"Here's a song from your favourite album" :lol
Also, nice red Les Paul there, Kirk. Wondered if it was the Alex Lifeson model for a split second (which I'm lucky enough to own) when the song started but it (obviously) wasn't.
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F R A N T I C ! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIzny7ZKI74)
Whatever they're doing I hope they keep doing it. They're tight as fuck. Just a shame James has good and bad days vocally.
That was actually pretty awesome!
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"Here's a song from your favourite album" :lol
Also, nice red Les Paul there, Kirk. Wondered if it was the Alex Lifeson model for a split second (which I'm lucky enough to own) when the song started but it (obviously) wasn't.
That's probably one of my favorite song intro's that James has ever done. :metal
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Yeah they know its reputation but they themselves don't hate it.
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Started youtubing songs from that huge album of other people covering their songs and the first one was Enter Sandman by a band of Mexican sisters and someone joining them on more lead vocals. It was REALLY awesome and felt I should share it here. I love when covers do something different.
https://youtu.be/9tKQgesCcTc
Edit: A few songs in and this is pretty cool. I'm still on the Sandman covers, and the closer they get to the original, the more boring it is. The more these artists make it their own thing, the more I'm digging it. Thus far at least. I know it's a VERY long album.
More edits!: The Sad But Trues were largely very cool as well. Not digging the Holier Than Thou covers as much. They seem mostly punk inspired and I've never been a punk guy, so this isn't speaking much to me.
The Unforgiven's were largely very cool. The Wherever I May Roams so far....less so. I'm on 3 of 4 of them. 2 are just people rapping over the sitar riff and the 3rd is just a remix? or something? The 4th one actually seems to be a cover and pretty similar to the original, which isn't terribly interesting. But it has some cool country elements. Overall, the Roams are largely awful with the last one being pretty cool. Let's see what the Don't Tread On Mes are like.
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I listened to most of the covers and felt the same - the farther away they got from the original, the more I liked them, aside from the songs that just sampled the original over a rap beat. The latin version of the Unforgiven is amazing, when the two women start singing in Spanish.
I'm not sure what the replay value is for me, but I think that it is a really cool way to honor the album
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I listened to most of the covers and felt the same - the farther away they got from the original, the more I liked them, aside from the songs that just sampled the original over a rap beat. The latin version of the Unforgiven is amazing, when the two women start singing in Spanish.
I'm not sure what the replay value is for me, but I think that it is a really cool way to honor the album
Indeed! Turns out the Don't Tread on Mes are mostly really cool too. Volbeat did a version that is close to the original but definitely made it their own in a cool way.
Just starting the Through the Nevers. The Hu is up first and I am already loving it.
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Loved Corey Taylor's Holier Than Thou.
Biffy's one was odd !
Not heard too much of the album.
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Loved Corey Taylor's Holier Than Thou.
Biffy's one was odd !
Not heard too much of the album.
Corey's was fine. I liked the ending, but he did what he usually does and does an almost identical cover. I guess when the other covers (not of that song, since they weren't great) are much more unique and interesting, I didn't end up finding Corey's very interesting, as good as he is.
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Wow there are A LOT of covers of Nothing Else Matters on this. God damn.
Making my way through them now. Currently on the one from the Hootie and the Blowfish dude. Most of these are actually fantastic. The one that is just piano is a let down. I was worried I'd get bored with so many of the same song but I'm really digging them to be honest!
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I've only heard the Ghost cover of Enter Sandman. It sounds like... well, Ghost :P
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Sadly only one Of Wolf and Man but I dug it.
The first God That Failed by Idles was....not my thing. The second one is pretty cool. Sadly only a few of the last few tracks. Not sure we needed 12 versions of Nothing Else Matters, even if most of them were fantastic.
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I liked a few of them, but so many covers of the same song is a bit much.
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Started youtubing songs from that huge album of other people covering their songs and the first one was Enter Sandman by a band of Mexican sisters and someone joining them on more lead vocals. It was REALLY awesome and felt I should share it here. I love when covers do something different.
https://youtu.be/9tKQgesCcTc
I really enjoy The Warning, and I thought their cover was very cool. I liked that they brought the riff in at the very end of the song.
I keep meaning to check out more of these, so maybe I'll follow your lead over the next few days.
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Follow The God That Failed ! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGjALs8yl3E)
This sounds really tight. They are really on form right now. and at 4:05 or so I think is the best evidence that they have a click in their ears these days.
I hope they keep it up - this is the best Lars has sounded in years.
Also I know they play everything in Eb live - but for some reason I could tell this was in D and I don't have perfect pitch.
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Maybe because it was recorded in Eb, and they play the rest of their songs tuned lower nowadays, they felt it necessary to also drop this one to keep it sounding lower than the others. They do sound great lately. Hard to believe they've lasted as long as Rush did
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To me they don't sound like one of those bands that's been going a bit too long. Hardwired is as good as anything they've done before imo...
Death Magnetic however - that *does* sound like the kind of album a classic metal band would make that split and re-formed ten years later trying to
recapture their old mojo. It's a shame really - it could have been a fantastic album.
Just imagine " All Nightmare Long " with the production of " Dream No More "... :drool:
This is the closest we'll get without a re-recorded album.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWP9daDpkzc = Live From Nimes 2009.
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Death Magnetic is awesome.
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After Load, Reload and Anger, DM is a huge win I think.
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DM is the first time where they were trying to recreate a previous album.
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What album were they recreating?
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What album were they recreating?
I would guess that it’s spiritual cousin would be “…And Justice”
Rick Rubin gave them the inspiration to write an album as if they were entering a “Battle of the Bands”. They approached AJFA with a similar mindset; to stretch their abilities on their instruments and prove they had the chops to keep up with an ever increasing focus on the technical side which was starting to be the trend in metal and thrash at the time. They both suffer from some of the same issues in that much of both albums sound like a hodge podge of riffs thrown together, rather than a cohesive whole.
Unlike DM though, AJFA has some moments of heart and genuine aggression that shines through on songs like “One” and “Dyers Eve”.
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Excellent take…with the caveat that I would say that DM sounds like what it would sound like if you put the first 5 albums into an AI program and then asked it to write a Metallica album for you.
It’s not bad, it just feels a bit “Halloween 2”
Hard Wired felt more like “this is where we are NOW”
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Yeah Death magnetic was trying to make another Die, Master, Justice style album with the fast opener and closer and the instrumental.
I agree that Hardwired was just - ok - we're back to full strength now. The arrangements on Death magnetic were a little iffy
as they had a 'one riff from each member' rule. On Hardwired it was back to James and Lars doing everything.
And it felt streamlined again like "Metallica" 1991. It was kind of like Metallica following And Justice For All.
One is a bad sounding album of longer songs and stretched out arrangements and then the more straight ahead pristine produced follow up.
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What album were they recreating?
I would guess that it’s spiritual cousin would be “…And Justice”
Rick Rubin gave them the inspiration to write an album as if they were entering a “Battle of the Bands”. They approached AJFA with a similar mindset; to stretch their abilities on their instruments and prove they had the chops to keep up with an ever increasing focus on the technical side which was starting to be the trend in metal and thrash at the time. They both suffer from some of the same issues in that much of both albums sound like a hodge podge of riffs thrown together, rather than a cohesive whole.
Unlike DM though, AJFA has some moments of heart and genuine aggression that shines through on songs like “One” and “Dyers Eve”.
They sound cohesive to me *shrug*
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I think the songs on Death Mag don't flow as well as they could have if only James and Lars were arranging.
Also the playing itself isn't always that great. I love Lars obviously but the actual PERFORMANCE on St Anger was way more energetic and creative than
his parts on Death Magnet - which sound like he's trying to play like he's still 25. And some of Kirks solos sound like the first thing he came up with.
But overall - if the album had great production - it could have been an absolute classic and monster return to form. Shame really.
When they get around to remastering it for Blackened - I wonder if they'll try to improve the audio at all. Yeah I know they didn't for Justice but we shall see.
Finally - back when Death Mag first came out and had all the hoopla about the clipping - I suggested that they do a special edition version in a few years where they quietly
remix it but don't say they remixed it. Funnily enough - that's what they did for the 'iTunes remaster'. It sounds way cleaner and now that's also the version you get
when you buy the album digitally.
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I think the songs on Death Mag don't flow as well as they could have if only James and Lars were arranging.
Also the playing itself isn't always that great. I love Lars obviously but the actual PERFORMANCE on St Anger was way more energetic and creative than
his parts on Death Magnet - which sound like he's trying to play like he's still 25. And some of Kirks solos sound like the first thing he came up with.
But overall - if the album had great production - it could have been an absolute classic and monster return to form. Shame really.
When they get around to remastering it for Blackened - I wonder if they'll try to improve the audio at all. Yeah I know they didn't for Justice but we shall see.
I didn't realize Hammett & Trujillo were involved in the songwriting. Hmm...I wonder how much they contributed.
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And some of Kirks solos sound like the first thing he came up with.
Which is different from every other one of his solos how? :) :) :)
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And some of Kirks solos sound like the first thing he came up with.
Which is different from every other one of his solos how? :) :) :)
You ever see the Year and a Half documentary? Dude, usually against his will, had to put A LOT of thought into those Black Album solos at the intense direction of Bob Rock. You can the early versions of some of them in there and how much better they ended up when he really spent time doing them.
But for the new stuff, I think even on Hardwired that he admitted that he just improvised a bunch and called it a day. Not his strength sadly.
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I actually like the two Load albums, I just don't get the hate thrown at a band for stretching their musical muscles, when they actually stretch them quite well. There's some dodgy rubbish on there, but overall they're great albums.
I've tried to like St Anger, really I have. There's some good songs in there struggling to get out.
Death Magnetic is great, shame about the brickwalling/clipping issues rendering it damn near unlistenable. I buy a CD to put in my CD player, goddammit, it should be the definitive, best possible version of the album. I shouldn't need to download the music just to listen to it.
Hardwired is good, but my initial opinion that it would be better cut back to a single disc remains.
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I'm an average Metallica fan (I don't at all share the reverence for Master and Ride that most do) and for me the Black Album and the two Loads are where it's at.
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I'm an average Metallica fan (I don't at all share the reverence for Master and Ride that most do) and for me the Black Album and the two Loads are where it's at.
hmm..
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I'm an average Metallica fan (I don't at all share the reverence for Master and Ride that most do) and for me the Black Album and the two Loads are where it's at.
hmm..
Phrasing! :)
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I'm an average Metallica fan (I don't at all share the reverence for Master and Ride that most do) and for me the Black Album and the two Loads are where it's at.
No shame in that. Load is their 4th best album after Ride, Master and TBA, IMO, and both Loads are miles ahead of anything they've released this century, although Death Magnetic did have a few really good songs. It's just too bad that that album sounded so bad.
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I don't enjoy DM. I don't enjoy but can appreciate and respect St. Anger, and I really enjoy most of Hardwired, but I'd still say the 2 Loads are better than all of them.
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I'm an average Metallica fan (I don't at all share the reverence for Master and Ride that most do) and for me the Black Album and the two Loads are where it's at.
I would say that I agree with your assessment of the Black Album and the Loads (especially Load) and that I don't have much of a reverence for Master (Ride is one of my favorite Metallica albums, Master is emphatically not), but I don't really see that as making me an average Metallica fan.
My ranking probably looks like:
1. Black
2. Ride
3. Load
4. Justice
5. Magnetic
6. Master
7. Reload
8. Kill
9. Anger
I've spent almost no time at all with Hardwired still—it just didn't catch me on my first couple of listens—so I omit it from the ranking as something I still need to come back to.
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My ranking probably looks like:
1. Black
2. Load
3. Reload
4. Hardwired
5. Justice
6. Magnetic
7. Master
8. Ride
9. Kill
10. Anger
Mine is really close here.
EDIT: Included Hardwired. It might even be higher, but I'm more familiar with the two Loads. Phrasing.
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Load is my 4th favorite behind the classic 3 (Ride-MoP-AJFA) so I also really like it. While I don't think their output post Reload is terrible, I think Metallica could have ended before St. Anger and we wouldn't have missed out on much. IMO they haven't written a song since the 90s that feels like top tier Metallica. But I'm still happy they are around and touring, maybe I can even get to see them one day!
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Oh nice...rankings!
1. Kill 'Em All
2. And Justice For All
3. Master Of Puppets
4. The Black Album
5. Death Magnetic
6. Ride The Lightning
7. Hardwired
8. Load
9. ReLoad
10. St. Anger
@425 and Stadler...you each didn't rank Hardwired?
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My ranking probably looks like:
1. Black
2. Load
3. Reload
4. Hardwired
5. Justice
6. Magnetic
7. Master
8. Ride
9. Kill
10. Anger
Mine is really close here.
EDIT: Included Hardwired. It might even be higher, but I'm more familiar with the two Loads. Phrasing.
Also a huge fan of the Loads. My top 5 would certainly include Load and Reload, and probably Ride The Lightning, TBA, and Master of Puppets. I think their best overall album production is on Garage Inc.
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Love rankings!
1. Master of Puppets
2. Ride the Lightning
3. ... And Justice for All
4. Black Album
5. Kill' Em All
6. Hardwired
7. Load
8. Death Magnetic
9. St. Anger
10. ReLoad
I do enjoy Death Magnetic, more so than the ranking suggests. I just find myself going back to Load more often. It's definitely a bloated album, but with plenty of great songs. There's a significant gap between 8. and 9/10. Actually, I didn't dislike St. Anger when it came out, but there are quite a few issues with it. I find ReLoad to be largely uninspired.
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Ride the Lightning
Master of Puppets
The Black Album
…And Justice for All
Kill ‘em All
Hardwired…to Self-Destruct
Death Magnetic
Reload
Load
St. Anger
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@425 and Stadler...you each didn't rank Hardwired?
I've spent almost no time at all with Hardwired still—it just didn't catch me on my first couple of listens—so I omit it from the ranking as something I still need to come back to.
;)
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A ranking you say ?
1. Master Of Puppets
2. Ride The Lightning
3. Metallica
4. Hardwired To Self Destruct
5. Load
6. Reload
7. Death Magnetic
8. Kill Em All
9. And Justice For All
10. St Anger
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I feel A Change... Back to a BETTER DAY ! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6o7FR_NbQ4)
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See, a lot of lists with the first two as Master/Ride. Don't see it.
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Ride yes, Master no. Ride has a lot of melodically interesting tracks; Master is like if you sucked all the melody out of half the songs and made the production worse.
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The same as I don't see what's so great about And Justice For All.
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Ride yes, Master no. Ride has a lot of melodically interesting tracks; Master is like if you sucked all the melody out of half the songs and made the production worse.
- Ride has Escape
+ Master has Orion
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I really like Metallica.
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Load is my 4th favorite behind the classic 3 (Ride-MoP-AJFA) so I also really like it. While I don't think their output post Reload is terrible, I think Metallica could have ended before St. Anger and we wouldn't have missed out on much. IMO they haven't written a song since the 90s that feels like top tier Metallica. But I'm still happy they are around and touring, maybe I can even get to see them one day!
Hard disagree with the bolded statement. As soon as I read it I thought of Halo On Fire. That is top-tier Metallica for me, without question one of the best songs by Metallica. But there's others from DM and HTSD that also could be in that realm. For me, and I know a lot of people won't agree, The Unforgiven III is one of the best lyrics James ever wrote and the song is great on top of it. All Nightmare Long, S&D, and TDTNC are all favorites of mine. And disc one + Spit on the "new" one... All of those songs are as good as anything off of Load and better than almost the entirety of Reload.
RANK
Load
Master
Ride
Hardwired
Kill
Black
Death
--------------
Reload
Justice
Anger
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I don't like Unforgiven 3 - 2 is my favourite.BUT it's still better than anything from Beyond Magnetic EP.
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Moth Into Flame is probably my favorite post-Black Album Metallica song. Punchy, melodically interesting and with great riffs. Very cool modern-day Metallica tune.
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I think the first 6 songs on Hardwired are all great. Not that I dont enjoy Disc 2 - I actually love their more Reload-ish style. But that first Disc is just flat out great.
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1. Master of Puppets
2. Ride the Lightning
3. And Justice For All
4. Load
5. The Black Album
6. Reload
7. Kill Em All
8. Hardwired to Self-destruct
9. Death Magnetic
10. St. Anger
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Apparently Hammett was quoted as saying they were recently " recording drums " so i'm hoping that Lars' estimation that they had barely begun was a red herring
and they're much further along than he's letting on. I'm hoping that one day in mid 2022- once all the black album stuff has finished - they just drop
a surprise new song like they did with Hardwired and release all the info in one go. That was so exciting when they did that.
Like - nothing...nothing...nothing...nothing...Then one day NEW SONG NEW VIDEO ALL THE ALBUM DETAILS AND RELEASE DATE. :o :o
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See, a lot of lists with the first two as Master/Ride. Don't see it.
Well, you're not into that kind of music right? 99% of people who have been listening to them since the beginning have those 2 at the top so I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.
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See, a lot of lists with the first two as Master/Ride. Don't see it.
Well, you're not into that kind of music right? 99% of people who have been listening to them since the beginning have those 2 at the top so I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.
I'm not sure what your factors have to do with it; once you get past Metallica and a little bit of Megadeth, I'm not into "thrash", that's true, but it's not like I dislike the elements of Metallica. I LIKE Metallica, even the heavier stuff. I was there, sort of, at the beginning. Ride came out in '84 and Master in '86, and that was probably when I was most into metal. The guitar player in my band at the time was into them and played them a lot.
I'm also not that influenced by what "99% of people say"; there's a degree of mythology around those two albums at this point. To me, it seems almost like the "it's long, so it must be a good song!" mythology. Or the "REM was so much better before they sold out" mythology. Generally, I'm a live and let live guy, and even if I don't like something, I can see why others' do like it, but the two main Metallica records baffle me a bit. Everything that is good about those records, Metallica has done better later in their career, to me. James sings and plays SO much better in the '90's. I suppose maybe you can't say that about Lars, but that's about it.
Hey it's all my opinion and so meaningless.
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James's singing, and the way his voice is recorded and produced, is a big part of the downside for me with the 80s albums, especially MoP. It feels like he's sort of shouting the lyrics at me from the back of a cave. I would have even preferred the way he sounded live in that era. But yeah, his singing was way better in the 90s.
I don't really regard Metallica as a thrash band outside of Kill 'Em All, but maybe the whole thrash mystique really is the thing—I think MoP is the thrashiest of the non-KEA records, so maybe that accounts for the disparity between my ranking of it and others'.
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See, a lot of lists with the first two as Master/Ride. Don't see it.
Well, you're not into that kind of music right? 99% of people who have been listening to them since the beginning have those 2 at the top so I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.
I think what he's saying (not just "trying to say") is an expression of opinion. I like prog, but I don't see what people see in Pink Floyd.
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The Ride the Lightning/MOP period for Metallica is like the Revolver/Sgt Pepper for the Beatles. Metallica, at this point, are writing their own rules, bringing a new a new level of musicality to the HEAVY metal genre. Those albums are a year or two ahead of anything going on at the time. Fade to Black was seen as a gamble at the time but it pretty much launched their career.
Dream Theater did the same (albeit in a much small scale/niche genre) with their brand of progressive metal during the I&W/Awake period.
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I just don't see that, if only on grounds that Powerslave and Somewhere in Time came out in those same years.
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I just don't see that, if only on grounds that Powerslave and Somewhere in Time came out in those same years.
I’m not seeing how this relates.
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Metallica, at this point, are... bringing a new a new level of musicality to the HEAVY metal genre.
I'm pointing to examples of metal albums from the same period that I think are on a comparable or higher level of musicality.
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Ok I see now…
…but I think he was referring more to the extreme metal that had been on the underground since Venom first released Welcome to Hell in 1981. All these bands that were on Metal Blade, Combat, and Megaforce Records. Metallica came from that early movement and pushed the genre forward with stuff like the aforementioned Fade to Black. It was risky. And I do remember a few complaints (only from the super extreme crowd that were listening to Slayer, Bathory, Hellhammer…etc) about them starting to go soft by doing a ballad.
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I wish everyone here could experience what it was like to be 15 years old, just starting to explore heavier music, and then getting the two record set of “The Best of Metal Blade Vol 1”
I might be getting slightly off topic, but being a kid just as all that stuff was finding an audience was a really exciting and fun time.
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See, a lot of lists with the first two as Master/Ride. Don't see it.
Well, you're not into that kind of music right? 99% of people who have been listening to them since the beginning have those 2 at the top so I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.
I'm not sure what your factors have to do with it; once you get past Metallica and a little bit of Megadeth, I'm not into "thrash", that's true, but it's not like I dislike the elements of Metallica. I LIKE Metallica, even the heavier stuff. I was there, sort of, at the beginning. Ride came out in '84 and Master in '86, and that was probably when I was most into metal. The guitar player in my band at the time was into them and played them a lot.
I'm also not that influenced by what "99% of people say"; there's a degree of mythology around those two albums at this point. To me, it seems almost like the "it's long, so it must be a good song!" mythology. Or the "REM was so much better before they sold out" mythology. Generally, I'm a live and let live guy, and even if I don't like something, I can see why others' do like it, but the two main Metallica records baffle me a bit. Everything that is good about those records, Metallica has done better later in their career, to me. James sings and plays SO much better in the '90's. I suppose maybe you can't say that about Lars, but that's about it.
Hey it's all my opinion and so meaningless.
Perhaps, but while they had a lot of good songs in the 90s, the songs seemed a little better on Ride and Master, and there is a raw energy to their early material that is just impossible to recapture once you've lost it. In the 80s, they sound like a young band that is full of energy and reckless abandon, and that just comes shooting out of the speakers on those early albums. And that is the problem with their newer material (21st century albums). It sounds like a band trying to sound young again instead of growing old gracefully. The energy and fury sounds manufactured and too well thought out rather than just a group of guys just playing in their garage. It just doesn't seem natural; it's like a band no longer in that headspace trying to recapture it, and not only failing, but sounding contrived in trying to do so. Some can crap on the 90s, but that was the band trying all kinds of different things and seeing what stuck to landing. Not everything did, but at least they were thinking outside the box.
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My first NEW Metallica album was Reload ;D
And I loved it. I worked backwards after that and got into Master and Ride a lot later. The wait from Reload to St Anger seemed FOREVER.
If you ever went to Metallica's homepage in the very early 2000s you would just get photos of them recording.
It wasn't until SKOM came out that you found out what was really going on.
The hate for Reload is ridiculous. Especially when it is the faster and heavier of the two albums. And has less filler in my view.
People at the time would say " Well St Anger is sh*t but at least its METAL unlike Reload " . And that's the problem with a lot of fans.
They want THEIR favourite album every few years and hate when their fave bands actually mature and change.
" Oh this new album isnt EXACTLY like the last one They suck now " . . .
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I just don't see why fans can't love Reload and also love Ride The Lightning. We should be lucky that a band exists that has the range to do stuff like Low Man's Lyric alongside Creeping Death. It's like people reach a certain age and decide that they're going to dislike everything that isn't a particular style. I'm 36 and I see it a lot with my friends who pretty much stick to whatever they listened to in high school/college.
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The hate for Reload is ridiculous. Especially when it is the faster and heavier of the two albums. And has less filler in my view.
My first "new" Metallica record was Load. I had a Ride the Lighting backpatch (the skeleton in the electric chair) on a denim jacket and other kids in high school would always say that "at least you're into 'old' Metallica."
To me, it was just Metallica. I hadn't really thought much about it. I wasn't a big thrasher...yet, I was just probably discovering some of the bay-area thrash bands, aside from Megadeth, whom I already loved, and had just been introduced to Anthrax and Slayer a year or two earlier. Metallica was my favorite band and I loved that I got to experience them releasing a brand new album.
As for your comment above, I've always felt that Load was the stronger of the two albums. It was the group of songs that were furthest along in 1996 when they had to put an album together to do the Lollapalooza tour, which I've equated to being the strongest batch of songs. Reload has always just felt like leftovers from the sessions, aside from Fixxxer.
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I just don't see that, if only on grounds that Powerslave and Somewhere in Time came out in those same years.
Boom. Beat me to the punch. I even had the same two albums in mind when I thought it.
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I wish everyone here could experience what it was like to be 15 years old, just starting to explore heavier music, and then getting the two record set of “The Best of Metal Blade Vol 1”
I might be getting slightly off topic, but being a kid just as all that stuff was finding an audience was a really exciting and fun time.
But we all have an album or two like that, don't we?
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See, a lot of lists with the first two as Master/Ride. Don't see it.
Well, you're not into that kind of music right? 99% of people who have been listening to them since the beginning have those 2 at the top so I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.
I'm not sure what your factors have to do with it; once you get past Metallica and a little bit of Megadeth, I'm not into "thrash", that's true, but it's not like I dislike the elements of Metallica. I LIKE Metallica, even the heavier stuff. I was there, sort of, at the beginning. Ride came out in '84 and Master in '86, and that was probably when I was most into metal. The guitar player in my band at the time was into them and played them a lot.
I'm also not that influenced by what "99% of people say"; there's a degree of mythology around those two albums at this point. To me, it seems almost like the "it's long, so it must be a good song!" mythology. Or the "REM was so much better before they sold out" mythology. Generally, I'm a live and let live guy, and even if I don't like something, I can see why others' do like it, but the two main Metallica records baffle me a bit. Everything that is good about those records, Metallica has done better later in their career, to me. James sings and plays SO much better in the '90's. I suppose maybe you can't say that about Lars, but that's about it.
Hey it's all my opinion and so meaningless.
Perhaps, but while they had a lot of good songs in the 90s, the songs seemed a little better on Ride and Master, and there is a raw energy to their early material that is just impossible to recapture once you've lost it. In the 80s, they sound like a young band that is full of energy and reckless abandon, and that just comes shooting out of the speakers on those early albums. And that is the problem with their newer material (21st century albums). It sounds like a band trying to sound young again instead of growing old gracefully. The energy and fury sounds manufactured and too well thought out rather than just a group of guys just playing in their garage. It just doesn't seem natural; it's like a band no longer in that headspace trying to recapture it, and not only failing, but sounding contrived in trying to do so. Some can crap on the 90s, but that was the band trying all kinds of different things and seeing what stuck to landing. Not everything did, but at least they were thinking outside the box.
I won't argue that, especially as you move into the St. Anger phase. I mean, I'm the hugest Het fan on the planet (seriously; he's top three favorite musicians, even if Metallica the band isn't) but some of the lyrics on the later records are a bit of a stretch.
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It was the group of songs that were furthest along in 1996 when they had to put an album together to do the Lollapalooza tour, which I've equated to being the strongest batch of songs. Reload has always just felt like leftovers from the sessions, aside from Fixxxer.
Yes but not written. Only recorded. All 27 songs were written and the drums for all 27 were recorded which is why the drums on both albums sound the same.
LOAD was just the FIRST 14 they had finished RECORDING not writing before they had to put something out. Reload is literally the OTHER 13.
In my opinion - there's nothing as bad as Cure or Poor Twisted Me or Ronnie on Reload.
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Poor Twisted Me is definitely the bottom of the barrel of the Loads. I love the opening riff of Ronnie, but it does nothing for me from there. Slither or Better than You fight for the worst on Reload, but they are miles better than Poor Twisted Me. I think Where the Wild Things are might be my favorite of both albums, although Bleeding Me is pretty close.
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Load has Cure and Poor Twisted Me that really brings it down. Also Ronnie is expandable but as the odd song it can stay.
Reload has Better than You, Slither and especially Bad Seed that are totally forgettable, and Attitude and Price Charming are just average at best.
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Just seen a joke pic on Instagram that basically parrots the " Everything Metallica did after And Justice For All is worthless ".
It may as well have been LOL NAPSTER or MONEY GRABBING METALLICA - which I never thought was true anyway.
Making pro shot videos available for free on YouTube. Making their fan club free to join. Doing club gigs for $5
or $19.81 instead of charging like £50 for a club venue just cause they're Metallica.
Also they only do 50 shows a year. And rarely put out albums. Hardly the actions of a band obsessed with money like - oh I dunno - KISS...
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I mean is there anything really wrong with trying to get fair value out of anything? It's not charity. Napster was them trying to protect their rights to release material at their leisure in the way they see fit. I, too, would be pissed if anything I made was released without my approval. Heck, last year, Metallica was trying to raise money for their foundation and releasing a full concert video every week on Youtube that's not behind a paywall. I would think in the list of bands that are very money-grubbing, Metallica doesn't rank high in my views. Not even close.
I mean their 40th anniversary shows in December. I've spent $275.00 on my pass for the two shows. Pretty steep for a concert, but it's front row in the nosebleed sections, and I never saw a headlining show from them live (did see them play 30 min. at the Chris Cornell Tribute show and they were great) and who knows when they will be back in SoCal. Plus, I can make a weekend trip out of it being in San Francisco and do other stuff that I wasn't able to do when I was there in early 2020.
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Right - But Lars tried to stop people getting songs stolen from their studio that weren't even finished/ - WOW SO GREEDY. ALL HE CARES ABOUT IS MONEY.
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Maybe some guitarists can clarify something that James is doing in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Olhlc19ZeQ&ab_channel=1MASTER1100
At 14 minutes, James is riding the low E string during the part after the intro of Disposable Heroes. Why is he fretting the other strings all the way up the neck rather than just holding it at the 2nd fret? He's just riding the one string so I get that he's not making any chords, but what's the benefit of holding his hand there?
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To me it looks like he's just resting his hand where it's comfy and muting the other strings without accidentally fretting.
... I just tried it myself and yeah - it just feels really comfy 'resting' my hand up there and it's easier to mute all the strings.
That's my guess.
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For me Load is superior to Reload because it has the strongest songs in Bleeding Me & Outlaw Torn (even if Fixxxer is up there) but also IMO the hits on Reload were never that great IMO, Fuel is like a meme at this point (even though it packs a lot of energy) and The Memory Remains is solid but much better live. In contrast I think the hits from Load are either more interesting or just better songs. Yeah if you really compared both albums, maybe there's 1 or 2 songs from Load closer to the bottom of that list than the weakest song on Reload, but for me the upper half would be mostly Load with a few Reload songs sprinkled in.
I still think Reload is great, but Load is just stronger imo.
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Songs like Fuel and Wonderwall being memes has nothing to do with the songs. It's normally because they're so popular that people have to 'prove' they actually suck.
In 1996 - NOTHING sounded like Wonderwall. I remember hearing it the first time and it sounding really haunting and original.
But it's somehow become a joke because it's...easy to play ? The simplest songs are the hardest to write..
I'd love to have written a song that was that well known.
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I don't dislike Wonderwall even if I think it's one of the weaker songs on that album, but Fuel is no Wonderwall. :P Yeah the intro riff is fun but I think as a leading single for an album, Fuel is just fairly weak when compared to other singles they had. It would be fine if Fuel was like the deep cut rocker hidden on the album but it's basically Reload's big single.
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Fuel is a good live song. The joke about Wonderwall didn't start til MUCH later. Everyone wanted to learn it back in the Morning Glory days.
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I'd love to have written a song that was that well known.
This. I laugh at that idea that bands like Metallica and Oasis (and Kiss, and even Dream Theater) are writing songs and they don't care if people like them. I call bullshit on that.
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I'd also have no qualms about "doing a MOBY" and letting anyone and everyone use one of my tracks on their TV show / Film / Advert
As long as it wasn't for something offensive or to promote drugs / cigarettes / booze etc etc...
The dance act LEFTFIELD bought out an album called LEFTISM in 1995 - and there was a long time where almost every advert or tv show
would have a LEFTFIELD track on it. It's a business after all.
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To me it looks like he's just resting his hand where it's comfy and muting the other strings without accidentally fretting.
... I just tried it myself and yeah - it just feels really comfy 'resting' my hand up there and it's easier to mute all the strings.
That's my guess.
I assumed it was comfort based, but wasn't positive. I guess muting the other strings that high up is more effective than further down the neck. He does the same thing in the bridge of Fight Fire With Fire where he's riding the E under Kirk's solo.
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I laugh at that idea that bands like Metallica and Oasis (and Kiss, and even Dream Theater) are writing songs and they don't care if people like them. I call bullshit on that.
Yep. That is why I laugh when fans of certain artists who have never had hits trash artists who have had hits, as if writing a hit is easy. It's like they fail to realize that just about every recording artist would kill to their songs loved and accepted by the masses.
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Speaking of Load and Reload - as I said before, I like the former much better than the latter. Up through Bleeding Me, Load is chock full of great songs. I might still prefer listening to older Metallica, but those tunes are full of energy and cool melodies/riffs. Starting with Cure there is certainly a drop in quality, but Wasting My Hate, Thorn Within and Outlaw Torn are very good, and I don't dislike Mama Said.
Reload might be overall heavier but, as I see it, not as energetic. The more aggressive songs, except for Fuel (which is a fun opener), are kind of "there" and not very inspired, and a lot of it is a bit plodding.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW3IbwEvR4I
:metal :metal
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Wax Audio has a much better Sad But True Mashup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyvxHL5hLfE
This one fucking grooves. :metal
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Just seen another " Metallica have not done anything worth listening to since 1988 " on Twitter.
Really ? Is Metallica really THAT much different from Justice ?
Is a song like Harvester of Sorrow COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to Of Wolf and Man ?
You're telling me that The Struggle Within would not have fit on Justice AT ALL ?
Even with THAT awesome thrashy riff near the end ? Ok...
The songs are just SHORTER. That's pretty much it.
Production wise - Metallica BURIES Justice. It's a much more pleasant listening experience.
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I don't think they've done anything great in the 00's or 10's but I enjoy the 80s and 90s stuff enough to the point where I don't mind that the rest gives me nothing.
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Yeah, I can understand old school thrash fans in 90s not liking Black album (or even AJFA) but after all this time Black album fits into their discography and is a logical continuation of stuff they did before. Latter albums are cool as well (sans St. Anger for me), it seems almost impossible there are no songs worth listening if you like old stuff.
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Honestly the only really BAD album is St Anger.
Load and Reload are great ROCK albums. Death Magnetic just needed a better production but the songs were fine
and Hardwired...is really great.
If you're still waiting for " And Justice For Even More ! " An epic 90 minute thrash opus with 10 minute songs then I've got bad news for you.
Finally we can put to rest the idea that Flemming Rasmussen was their secret weapon. Master and Justice both sound boxy and brittle.
The band EVILE recorded a thrash album with Flemming in the same studio as Master was recorded and...
well it's no masterpiece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry5nddc2Vew . Flemming was just operating the desk. He probably had ZERO say in arrangements or Lars / James sounds.
Always amusing to me when people say if they got Flemming back they'd somehow automatically make Master Of Puppets II. they tried that with Death Magnetic and...yeah.
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Just seen another " Metallica have not done anything worth listening to since 1988 " on Twitter.
Really ? Is Metallica really THAT much different from Justice ?
Is a song like Harvester of Sorrow COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to Of Wolf and Man ?
You're telling me that The Struggle Within would not have fit on Justice AT ALL ?
Even with THAT awesome thrashy riff near the end ? Ok...
The songs are just SHORTER. That's pretty much it.
Production wise - Metallica BURIES Justice. It's a much more pleasant listening experience.
Well, you leaped pretty quick from "different" to "not worth listening to". Latter day Scorpions, mid-period Kiss, Hogarth Marillion... all "different" but certainly "worth listening to". Rush is probably an even better example. U2. I shake my head at these people that expect artists to just stagnate at the age of 24. I mean, at my core I'm the same as I was at 24, but I don't limit myself to the same music, I don't limit myself to the same books, etc. as I did when I was 24. Move on, for God's sake.
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Just seen another " Metallica have not done anything worth listening to since 1988 " on Twitter.
What's worse: randomly bitching about something that's 30+ years old or coming to a different forum to complain about the random bitching?
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/igR5863TALcSk/giphy.gif)
Really ? Is Metallica really THAT much different from Justice ?
Yes.
Production wise - Metallica BURIES Justice. It's a much more pleasant listening experience.
I don't know about "buries," but it's better.
Honestly the only really BAD album is St Anger.
Load and Reload are great ROCK albums. Death Magnetic just needed a better production but the songs were fine
and Hardwired...is really great.
If you're still waiting for " And Justice For Even More ! " An epic 90 minute thrash opus with 10 minute songs then I've got bad news for you.
Opinions and all.... And yeah, AJFA 2 ain't happening. WE know it (an I moved on after Load). You don't need to whine here about folks on Twitter.
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Just seen another " Metallica have not done anything worth listening to since 1988 " on Twitter.
What's worse: randomly bitching about something that's 30+ years old or coming to a different forum to complain about the random bitching?
Agreed, if you are annoyed by something some anonymous person posted on twitter, I'm not quite sure why you come here to complain about said random person. Who cares???
Anyway, I'm STOKED to see Metallica tomorrow night :metal :metal
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I think there was a point in my Metallica fandom when I was that guy "I can't believe where they went with their sound" but I think one of my main issues with their last 2 albums is the more 'back to the old style' approach. Would have loved to see where the band had gone after Load/Reload/Garage Inc if they had stuck to that path, but instead we got a failed nu metal experiment with St. Anger and back to the old sound with Death Magnetic and Hardwired. I get why people like the last 2 albums but for me I'd rather just listen to the earlier albums if that's the style I want.
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“I don’t know about buries”.
I just meant the production.
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I think there was a point in my Metallica fandom when I was that guy "I can't believe where they went with their sound" but I think one of my main issues with their last 2 albums is the more 'back to the old style' approach. Would have loved to see where the band had gone after Load/Reload/Garage Inc if they had stuck to that path, but instead we got a failed nu metal experiment with St. Anger and back to the old sound with Death Magnetic and Hardwired. I get why people like the last 2 albums but for me I'd rather just listen to the earlier albums if that's the style I want.
I think Hardwired may be closer to what the direction after Load/Reload/Garage Inc could have been, it just took the band trying to figure things out to get there.
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“I don’t know about buries”.
I just meant the production.
I did too. The production on TBA > AJFA, but AJFA is still, for me, a FAR better album.
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I think there was a point in my Metallica fandom when I was that guy "I can't believe where they went with their sound" but I think one of my main issues with their last 2 albums is the more 'back to the old style' approach. Would have loved to see where the band had gone after Load/Reload/Garage Inc if they had stuck to that path, but instead we got a failed nu metal experiment with St. Anger and back to the old sound with Death Magnetic and Hardwired. I get why people like the last 2 albums but for me I'd rather just listen to the earlier albums if that's the style I want.
I think Hardwired may be closer to what the direction after Load/Reload/Garage Inc could have been, it just took the band trying to figure things out to get there.
I would have enjoyed Three-Load.
Minus Human. I disappear. No Leaf Clover.
An album like that could have been the in between that
Could have come out between Reload and St. Anger.
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They don't do much for me anymore but they're an amazing covers band. I could go for another Garage album.
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Garage Inc is such an incredible album and along with the original S&M is the peak of their 90s output, after The Black Album. Forget Load and Reload (which I don't have much of a problem with ti be fair), it's Garage Inc and S&M that I return to.
I think there was a point in my Metallica fandom when I was that guy "I can't believe where they went with their sound" but I think one of my main issues with their last 2 albums is the more 'back to the old style' approach. Would have loved to see where the band had gone after Load/Reload/Garage Inc if they had stuck to that path, but instead we got a failed nu metal experiment with St. Anger and back to the old sound with Death Magnetic and Hardwired. I get why people like the last 2 albums but for me I'd rather just listen to the earlier albums if that's the style I want.
I feel the same. Death Magnetic has it's moments but Hardwired does nothing for me. At least St. Anger took some risks, which I like to see.
I've said it before but a solo Hetfield country album would excite me more than anything Metallica could put out at this point
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I've said it before but a solo Hetfield country album would excite me more than anything Metallica could put out at this point
Metallica as a band hasn't excited me since Load but I suspect that would be great.
With a lot of older bands, I have a theory they still have the potential for career-best contenders in them but they get stuck in their ways. If they mixed up their ways of working, they might do better.
I'll come back to this theory for more bands but for Metallica they could have Kirk and Rob initially write the next album. Then James and Lars add their input but give final say to Kirk and Rob. Give them the producer hat, for example (but have an external producer too to keep the project on track and keep the traditional boss egos in check).
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Back home from Atlanta, I'll share more when I get some time as I just now start to review my videos/pictures, but I will share this.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDjhxeqWEAEPeR3?format=jpg&name=large)
I HAD A BLAST at this concert :metal :metal
also, blabbermouth put my video of No Leaf Clover in their article today:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/watch-metallica-headline-second-night-of-atlive-concert-series-in-atlanta/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/watch-metallica-headline-second-night-of-atlive-concert-series-in-atlanta/)
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Congrats Cram!
That's a great setlist.
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Congrats Cram!
That's a great setlist.
Slightly disappointed it was a basic set though, they've done a bunch of interesting sets recently. Granted, I really wanted to see No Leaf Clover so I can't complain. Also enjoyed seeing Ride the Lightning
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Congrats Cram!
That's a great setlist.
Slightly disappointed it was a basic set though, they've done a bunch of interesting sets recently. Granted, I really wanted to see No Leaf Clover so I can't complain. Also enjoyed seeing Ride the Lightning
I heard you singing. :lol
All of their sets are basic though.
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Yeah. All of their sets nowadays are going to be typically basic unless it's an album tour and they probably get a chance to get creative throwing a random deep cut. It would suck for those that have seen them numerous times over the years, but the ratio between those that's seeing them for the first time ever is going to be much larger than those that have seen them numerous times.
I don't care either way when I'm going to see them twice in San Francisco next month. It would be nice to finally cross off seeing them in a headlining show for the first time ever.
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So next up in the Blackened Remaster series is LOAD !
Obviously there's no leftover songs as they never have leftover songs or b - sides. Which is really weird if you think about it. All their songs end up on an album
and there's never any songs leftover. imagine if there were another 8 completed songs left over from the Master of Puppets sessions that they deemed unworthy ?
I think out of all the albums so far - Load and Reload could use a touch of brightening up. They're both in Eb so obviously are a touch muddier than METALLICA.
Will be interesting. As for St. Anger i think it's the only album where there's actually going to be a metric ton of leftover songs as seen in SOME KIND OF MONSTER.
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Congrats Cram!
That's a great setlist.
Slightly disappointed it was a basic set though, they've done a bunch of interesting sets recently. Granted, I really wanted to see No Leaf Clover so I can't complain. Also enjoyed seeing Ride the Lightning
I heard you singing. :lol
All of their sets are basic though.
Yes and no. They have done those festivals with two different sets so there's been a decent amount of variety to their live shows this year. Was hoping one of the more rare songs would sneak into the set since they've performed some rarer ones lately.
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Now ? No.
Back on the Black Album tour - didn't they play the same set every night ?
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;D who had the crappiest debut album artwork ?
(https://townsquare.media/site/366/files/2016/12/Slayer-Show-No-Mercy.jpg?w=1200&h=0&zc=1&s=0&a=t&q=89)
(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/843/MI0001843412.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
(https://www.hrrshop.de/bilder/produkte/gross/METALLICA-Kill-Em-All-LP_b2.jpg)
(https://metal.academy/uploads/releases/31754789806807693a5ef98243fadab0.jpg)
(https://www.therockpit.net/2015/IMAGES/article-megadeth-killingismybusiness.jpg)
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I'd say Pantera out of those :lol
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From worst to best:
Pantera
Megadeth
Anthrax
Metallica
Slayer
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The Pantera and Anthrax ones are the only ones I think are “bad”
Fates Warning debut was pretty terrible. Fortunately, their 2nd and 3rd albums were freaking phenomenal.
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Fates Warning debut was pretty terrible.
Which one? ???
(https://img.discogs.com/MKm1PX0wlLQpDDewFuEqcE9bnfs=/fit-in/600x595/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1842637-1546890374-6236.jpeg.jpg)
(https://img.discogs.com/iV69gteU-rrNne9cj-7xGTK3-S4=/fit-in/320x289/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1858181-1357256024-4412.jpeg.jpg)
(https://hmrock.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Front.jpg)
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The first two are the originals. The 3rd didn’t come out until the CD rerelease in the late 80s/early 90s.
They even mentioned their frustrations with the NOB album artwork in the liner notes for TSW. I *think* both of the first two were issued and there was a bit of confusion. In any event, both were terrible
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Haha. The first Fates Warning cover is appalling. As is the Pantera one. Never seen it before, actually. :lol
Tallica and Deth are fully respectable.
I like the Show No Mercy cover. It has a whiff of weird Sataniness. The Anthrax one is just confusing.
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I've always thought the Kill 'em all artwork was powerful. :tup
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It's a lot better than Metal Up Your Ass ! ;D
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I'd say Pantera out of those :lol
Yeah...out of those pictured, it's not even close (and Metallica's is the best of the five pictured).
After checking, I see that Metal Magic came out in 1983, so I'd think I should have come across it at a record store back in the day, but I have no recollection of it at all.
I do, however, remember this one:
(https://img.discogs.com/ggNs22wvZl9f0-bM0otse-2rByM=/fit-in/600x576/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2598656-1536996901-9763.jpeg.jpg)
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I've seen most of these in a 'terrible artwork' website :lol
Amazing that they thought it looked good or "tough"...
" Ok so we want a badass biker on a Harley Davidson as the town burns around him "
" Ok sure. I'll give him furry boots of course "
" What ? "
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Other than MAYBE KEA, and only by the process of elimination, there is NO good artwork on this page. Horrible. That first Fates Warning record doesn't even look like they finished the artwork (look at Sleeping Beauty's legs).
There seems to be a LOT of "Hey, I know a guy/girl that draws!" going on there.
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I've seen most of these in a 'terrible artwork' website :lol
Amazing that they thought it looked good or "tough"...
" Ok so we want a badass biker on a Harley Davidson as the town burns around him "
" Ok sure. I'll give him furry boots of course "
" What ? "
And apparently stubby arms.
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I've seen most of these in a 'terrible artwork' website :lol
Amazing that they thought it looked good or "tough"...
" Ok so we want a badass biker on a Harley Davidson as the town burns around him "
" Ok sure. I'll give him furry boots of course "
" What ? "
And apparently stubby arms.
Reading these posts in Mitch Hedberg's voice. :lol
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Other than MAYBE KEA, and only by the process of elimination, there is NO good artwork on this page. Horrible. That first Fates Warning record doesn't even look like they finished the artwork (look at Sleeping Beauty's legs).
There seems to be a LOT of "Hey, I know a guy/girl that draws!" going on there.
Definitely. I can't even tell what's happening in the Night on Bröcken cover. You've got a guy dressed like a Puritan on some rocks with a dead (?), scantily-clad woman, a bobcat (maybe?), two vaguely Indian or Chinese looking people growing out of the rocks, a woman with super tight pants and knee-high boots (perhaps dressed for a Motley Crue concert) stretching next to a wolf (?) and an old guy doing some tai-chi moves, all overlooking a town nestled in the middle of a wooded area. I mean...seriously...what the fuck is happening there?! With the woman burning at the stake, at least you can figure out what's happening.
When I was in high school, a friend and I created a band called Animosity. He was "a guy that draws," so he came up with artwork for album covers, while I came up with song names and album titles. Most of the crap we came up with looked at least as good as some of these albums.
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Anyone want to look at a toilet that look like a mannequin of young Lars Ulrich? People just have a weird way of sending tribute to a musician. Note, this is the same guy that claimed that he made a guitar out of the skeleton of his deceased uncle. I'm not even going to post the picture, since it's honestly disturbing to look at. You can click the Loudwire link at your own risk.
https://loudwire.com/lars-ulrich-toilet-prince-midnight/
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Making A METALLICA Song In 5 Minutes (Speedrun) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Unu-aad-MQ&ab_channel=BradleyHall)
I know it's ridiculous but I couldn't stop laughing, he seems like a fun dude.
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Anyone want to look at a toilet that look like a mannequin of young Lars Ulrich? People just have a weird way of sending tribute to a musician. Note, this is the same guy that claimed that he made a guitar out of the skeleton of his deceased uncle. I'm not even going to post the picture, since it's honestly disturbing to look at. You can click the Loudwire link at your own risk.
https://loudwire.com/lars-ulrich-toilet-prince-midnight/
That’s whacked. :huh:
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Making A METALLICA Song In 5 Minutes (Speedrun) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Unu-aad-MQ&ab_channel=BradleyHall)
I know it's ridiculous but I couldn't stop laughing, he seems like a fun dude.
He did Polyphia in his last speedrun and it was actually great if you can take the fart noises
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Anyone want to look at a toilet that look like a mannequin of young Lars Ulrich? People just have a weird way of sending tribute to a musician. Note, this is the same guy that claimed that he made a guitar out of the skeleton of his deceased uncle. I'm not even going to post the picture, since it's honestly disturbing to look at. You can click the Loudwire link at your own risk.
https://loudwire.com/lars-ulrich-toilet-prince-midnight/
WHY is the actual toilet part skin colored? Why didn't he put pants/shorts on? WTF lol
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40th anniversary shows start today. Plenty of people sporting Metallica shirts as I’m walking around the area. Going to be a great weekend. Don’t really have a preference of what they are going to play, but I’m sure they will deliver.
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If I can stay awake, I'll try to catch the stream on Amazon Prime. I wonder if they will allow for streaming after or if its only live.
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All right, I made it. House music is the Blacklist covers.
Ok, I’m bored of it now. There’s only so many covers of Nothing Else Matters and Sad but True that I can bear.
All right so far in the pre show festivities. The guys had a video on why they wanted to be in a band and how they feel in the now. Then they came out and greeted the crowd and thanked everyone that came from around the world for being here. Then they brought a DJ and a try hard MC to fill in the opening band slot. Yeah, that would get a good reaction with this crowd…..
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All right, show’s over. Uhhh, yeah this lived up to the hype and then some. More details tomorrow.
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I caught it when they started One....
I thought it was a great show and the stream was excellent during the show for me.
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Wow, now THAT is an interesting set
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Cool setlist, especially Fixxxer which sounded great (Lars even used a ride cymbal instead of bashing on the china!). Glad they finally brought that one out.
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... I didn't make it for the stream lol I'll try again for Sunday!
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Yeah, that's a very cool setlist. Gonna have to check the stream out later.
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Is a replay of the stream available on Prime video? I can't see it but I'm also pretty hungover.
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I didnt see a replay option.
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OK cool, well I'll try and catch the show tomorrow.
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I would have sworn the email beforehand said the stream would be available to view afterwards.
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The video will be available next week. It was said at the end of the live stream.
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So happy they finally played Fixxxer. Long overdue!
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I’m so happy. I got a lot of things to say, but I can’t type it all on mobile. The set list. I like how they didn’t go for the obvious choices on certain albums. They may go for those on night two. We’ll see. The playing overall was tremendous.
Hit the Lights
Creeping Death
Trapped Under Ice
Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
Orion
The Shortest Straw
One
Sad But True
Nothing Else Matters
King Nothing
Fixxxer
Breadfan
No Leaf Clover
Frantic
The Day that Never Comes
Spit Out The Bone
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Oh, I see. One song from each album.
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Yeah, looks like they doubled up on Ride through TBA, but very cool. Looking forward to this being available.
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Yeah, looks like they doubled up on Ride through TBA, but very cool. Looking forward to this being available.
Right. D'uh. I thought that was a lot of albums. :lol
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The first half plus Breadfan is really good (Hit the Lights is a good opener, but it's definitely not my favorite from KEA).
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What a great show last night. The openers were AWFUL (terrible hype-man with a mediocre DJ...), but honestly once Metallica hit the stage it didn't matter anymore.
THINGS I LOVED: Going chronologically, Hitting every album. Got some good rarities (Trapped, Orion, obviously Fixxxer, Spit). The setlist and the playing was both top notch.
MINOR COMLAINTS: Not getting a Black Album rarity. Playing two hits in a row (three actually, after One before them) kind of slowed down the pace a bit. No encore and stopping at 16 songs. Seemed a bit pre-mature, even after 2 hours. Would have liked one or two more songs, but I get that after forty years, two hours is still pretty strong (though I saw Genesis in Boston the night before and they played 2.5 hours, and they're 10+ years older!)
I hope tomorrow's just as good. I honestly felt like last night's gig would be hard to top. Looking forward to a Load song I haven't seen (only seen King Nothing previously and they played that last night!)
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I’m so happy. I got a lot of things to say, but I can’t type it all on mobile. The set list. I like how they didn’t go for the obvious choices on certain albums. They may go for those on night two. We’ll see. The playing overall was tremendous.
Hit the Lights
Creeping Death
Trapped Under Ice
Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
Orion
The Shortest Straw
One
Sad But True
Nothing Else Matters
King Nothing
Fixxxer
Breadfan
No Leaf Clover
Frantic
The Day that Never Comes
Spit Out The Bone
I’m expecting them to work backwards for night two so they can close out the celebration with Seek and Destroy. My guesses for tonight, using the same number of songs per album as night one:
Hardwired
All Nightmare Long
St. Anger
-Human
Turn the Page
Fuel
The Outlaw Torn
Enter Sandman
The Unforgiven
Blackened
To Live is to Die
Master of Puppets
Damage Inc.
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Ride the Lightning
Seek and Destroy
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Yeah, it seems that going in reverse chronological order would make a lot more sense, not just because I think closing with anything from the last album is a bad idea, but because ending a set like that with tried and true classics seems like smarter move.
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All right, round two. Blacklist covers are still house music. I really enjoyed the Hu’s rendition of Through the Never.
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Waiting 10 more minutes to start the live stream. It says 9:55 for me...
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What's this about a fire alarm?....
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Show’s still on. They are going in reverse album order.
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Yeah...I was all ready, then the house lights came on and I was what are they saying on the PA...then Amazon switched to a logo of the Livestream ad. Caught it all and it's a great set so far.
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I wouldn't mind seeing that set list. :metal
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That was some clever setlist building over two nights! :metal
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Very cool set again, sounds like an awesome weekend. I'll have to check out the streams when they come back online or these might even be cool to buy on blu-ray if it ever gets an official release.
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Metallica once again proving they’re the best band in the world, going deep with really good, well thought out setlists. Was hoping they’d bust out Dyers Eve just to prove the naysayers wrong that they don’t have it in them anymore but overall, an amazing two shows for the fan club and ride or die fans.
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For all of the shit they’ve been given through the years, being called sellouts and being crucified for the war on Napster, Metallica deserves all of the credit in the world for constantly giving their fans something special while still doing things their way. They are, IMO, the greatest band in the world, as they are one of the few who have found the perfect balance of fan satisfaction and creative freedom, and they are by far the most successful band to do it.
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I wouldn't mind seeing that set list. :metal
+1
Anyone care to post?
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I wouldn't mind seeing that set list. :metal
+1
Anyone care to post?
Friday: https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2021/chase-center-san-francisco-ca-1b8b35d4.html
Sunday: https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2021/chase-center-san-francisco-ca-638b263f.html
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Glad to see a fair amount Load/ReLoad material, and also Fixxxer getting a live debut, it's one of my favourites from that era.
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A little bummed they didn't bring out any guests like Jason, but them be some killer sets! Looking forward to watching this on TV.
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Looking in retrospect, minus some hiccups like Napster and Some Kind of Monster- Metallica couldn’t have planned their career any better even if they had access to crystal ball.
To start things they blended punk, early hardcore metal like Venom, and NWOBHM, practically inventing their own brand of thrash. They avoided the trappings and theatrics of their LA contemporaries which gave them credibility throughout the 80s, instead making their mark in the Bay Area (big fish in a little pond). They also had the foresight to know Dave Mustaine was bad news- not just toxic from a personality standpoint, but there were just too many cooks in the kitchen. Kirk Hammett’s passive attitude allowed the band to continue when their contemporaries like WASP and Ratt (whom they both shared the stage with in the early days) struggled with constant in fighting and ego issues.
With each successive album they added finesse and technicality- growing WITH the genre (arguably one step ahead of it). Early on they also introduced ballads into their sound, which not only gave a level of accessibility but also left the door wide open for them to explore that in the future. Finally, in what is their heaviest, most technical, least accessible album they somehow ALSO have their first breakthrough hit with “One”.
Then we get to 1991. By this point they clearly want to take over the world. After the 1-2 punch of Guns n Roses and then grunge effectively closing the book on heavy metal (at least the 80s version of it) as a popular genre- doing another “…And Justice” would have been a step down. After the taste of success, a lesser band would have followed that up with more of the same and then found themselves back on the club circuit by the mid 90s (which countless other bands did). Instead, they once again create their own blend of hard rock/metal just when the world was ready for it. They follow that wave through the decade- Load/ReLoad may not be top tier metal albums- they are PERFECT albums for that time period for the band to stay relevant.
I’ll end my fanboy rant- my main point is at least for the first 15-20 years of the band’s career they made ALL the right moves to further Metallica Inc. The tragedy of Cliff Burton aside- I can’t think of another band that had quite a charmed career with remaining relevant both artistically and commercially THAT long. The Rolling Stones? Maybe, although the Stones have the shadow of the Beatles always looming- Metallica were THE metal genre leaders for a decade- I’m not sure if the Stones can claim anything like that.
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There's no doubt in my mind that Metallica are the greatest metal band of all time
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There's no doubt in my mind that Metallica are the greatest metal band of all time
There’s no competition other than maybe Iron Maiden.
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Looking in retrospect, minus some hiccups like Napster and Some Kind of Monster- Metallica couldn’t have planned their career any better even if they had access to crystal ball.
To start things they blended punk, early hardcore metal like Venom, and NWOBHM, practically inventing their own brand of thrash. They avoided the trappings and theatrics of their LA contemporaries which gave them credibility throughout the 80s, instead making their mark in the Bay Area (big fish in a little pond). They also had the foresight to know Dave Mustaine was bad news- not just toxic from a personality standpoint, but there were just too many cooks in the kitchen. Kirk Hammett’s passive attitude allowed the band to continue when their contemporaries like WASP and Ratt (whom they both shared the stage with in the early days) struggled with constant in fighting and ego issues.
With each successive album they added finesse and technicality- growing WITH the genre (arguably one step ahead of it). Early on they also introduced ballads into their sound, which not only gave a level of accessibility but also left the door wide open for them to explore that in the future. Finally, in what is their heaviest, most technical, least accessible album they somehow ALSO have their first breakthrough hit with “One”.
Then we get to 1991. By this point they clearly want to take over the world. After the 1-2 punch of Guns n Roses and then grunge effectively closing the book on heavy metal (at least the 80s version of it) as a popular genre- doing another “…And Justice” would have been a step down. After the taste of success, a lesser band would have followed that up with more of the same and then found themselves back on the club circuit by the mid 90s (which countless other bands did). Instead, they once again create their own blend of hard rock/metal just when the world was ready for it. They follow that wave through the decade- Load/ReLoad may not be top tier metal albums- they are PERFECT albums for that time period for the band to stay relevant.
I’ll end my fanboy rant- my main point is at least for the first 15-20 years of the band’s career they made ALL the right moves to further Metallica Inc. The tragedy of Cliff Burton aside- I can’t think of another band that had quite a charmed career with remaining relevant both artistically and commercially THAT long. The Rolling Stones? Maybe, although the Stones have the shadow of the Beatles always looming- Metallica were THE metal genre leaders for a decade- I’m not sure if the Stones can claim anything like that.
Great post and you're absolutely right. What amazes me is the absolute change in sound during just an 8 year period from 83-91. Hit The Lights to Nothing Else Matters in the span of time from Death Magnetic to Hardwired. They even set themselves up for a great comeback after St. Anger/SKoM and have been pretty much unstoppable since that tour. Plus, I don't know any metal singer from the 80's who has recovered use of their voice like Hetfield has. He sounds incredible nowadays and I'm so glad this band still exists.
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Well, while I don't disagree about how Metallica took over the world in the early '90s, I'd daresay that maybe we could have had some more studio albums (it always took forever to to them from Load / Reload onwards), and with better quality.
The Load era was a bit confusing for old fans and new alike, it's something you appreciate in retrospect but back then those albums were considered a bit "meh". And St. Anger was an absolute disaster, outside the circle of 15-20 people worldwide who liked those songs. It was a whopping 12 years, from 1996's Load to 2008's Death Magnetic, to have an album that could have potentially went well with the fanbase, and still DM was received not so greatly and people complained about the production.
It was only with Hardwired that they did an album that most of the fanbase could get behind, with great songs and a nice sound, and still many people complain about the record anyway; Iron Maiden managed to have way more continuity and quality with the reunion era albums.
I know that in between Metallica did a lot of things and special live shows, but it would have been way nicer if we had some more "later era renaissance" good albums rather than having only Hardwired to enjoy (but I'm sure many people will equally love Death Magnetic as well, but to me that album is just a stepping stone to Hardwired, with DM they tried too haard, with Hardwired things finally came naturally).
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I agree that Hardwired is better than DM, but nearly half the Metallica fans I know/talk to say that they like DM more.
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I agree that Hardwired is better than DM, but nearly half the Metallica fans I know/talk to say that they like DM more.
Right. DM has more killer riffs and songs but HW is just SO MUCH easier to listen to.
Also great posts above.
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Over the years I've seen the bulk of their catalogue played live. Not too much I haven't seen. One thing I'd kill to see live is Fixxxer. Alas, it seems they've waited too long to play it. Hetfield sounded terrible trying to sing that now. Best I could do was skim through it. I suspect that there, in the moment it probably sounded pretty good; live and loud covers a multitude of sins. Watching the video is painful, though.
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https://www.sonicperspectives.com/news/metallicas-pro-shot-video-of-entire-first-40th-anniversary-show-in-san-francisco-available/
The audio mix is awesome!
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Over the years I've seen the bulk of their catalogue played live. Not too much I haven't seen. One thing I'd kill to see live is Fixxxer. Alas, it seems they've waited too long to play it. Hetfield sounded terrible trying to sing that now. Best I could do was skim through it. I suspect that there, in the moment it probably sounded pretty good; live and loud covers a multitude of sins. Watching the video is painful, though.
James is always shaky on songs the first time. If they decide to play it a few more times here and there he’ll sound killer on it!
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I think he found how to sing the chorus on the final repetition.
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Right. DM has more killer riffs and songs but HW is just SO MUCH easier to listen to.
If only DM weren't as brickwalled as it is.
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Right. DM has more killer riffs and songs but HW is just SO MUCH easier to listen to.
If only DM weren't as brickwalled as it is.
There's always the Rock Band version, isn't there?
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Yeah, but you got to do complicated things to convert it to MP3s and such. It's not like you get that version on Spotify or an album copy nowadays.
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I agree that Hardwired is better than DM, but nearly half the Metallica fans I know/talk to say that they like DM more.
I'm one of them ;D
Don't get me wrong, both albums are a welcome return to form, but for my money, DM is just a bit leaner and meaner.
That all being said, if I took the best 4 or 5 songs off each album and paired them together, I suspect I'd have a recording that easily slides into top-3 territory for me. Can you imagine opening a record with 'The Judas Kiss' and closing it with 'Spit out the Bone'??? :metal
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Over the years I've seen the bulk of their catalogue played live. Not too much I haven't seen. One thing I'd kill to see live is Fixxxer. Alas, it seems they've waited too long to play it. Hetfield sounded terrible trying to sing that now. Best I could do was skim through it. I suspect that there, in the moment it probably sounded pretty good; live and loud covers a multitude of sins. Watching the video is painful, though.
It sure does. I am sure I have told this story before, but I have only seen Metallica once, back in '98, and it was so loud that I literally had no idea what the first song was. It was just a massive wall of noise. Turns out it was Blackened. :lol And the concert was outside!! :eek :eek :eek
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I had the completely opposite problem at my second Metallica show (in the open as well), the sound was not so potent and I barely needed earplugs.
It was also raining, it was a major annoyance being there in the moment and having to cover myself, but looking back.... listening to Creeping Death performed live while there was a menacing red light all over the stage and the rain was pouring down was fucking badass :metal
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Most metal shows I go to (at least at mid sized 2000-5000 seaters) have been too soft. I know a lot of people complain that DT shows are too loud but for my money the levels have always been right where they need to be- I want to feel the bass drums in my chest, I want the guitars to be just slightly painful/intense without earplugs. If I wanted a laid back, comfortable experience- I’d listen to the record at home. Basically, I want to FEEL the music.
Story time: The worst was Megadeth at a midsized club, I could literally hear conversations of people next to me speaking in normal voices. So, from the front row I motioned to Dave Mustaine to turn it up. He notices me and into the microphone he says “turn it up? What the hell do you want me to do about it? Tell the sound guys in back!” So the next song they raised the levels and it sounded SO much better. After the song Dave goes “is that better for YOU now?”.
TDLR- I once told Dave Mustaine to “turn it up” and they did. I consider this the most “metal” thing I’ve ever done in my life.
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Most metal shows I go to (at least at mid sized 2000-5000 seaters) have been too soft. I know a lot of people complain that DT shows are too loud but for my money the levels have always been right where they need to be- I want to feel the bass drums in my chest, I want the guitars to be just slightly painful/intense without earplugs. If I wanted a laid back, comfortable experience- I’d listen to the record at home. Basically, I want to FEEL the music.
Story time: The worst was Megadeth at a midsized club, I could literally hear conversations of people next to me speaking in normal voices. So, from the front row I motioned to Dave Mustaine to turn it up. He notices me and into the microphone he says “turn it up? What the hell do you want me to do about it? Tell the sound guys in back!” So the next song they raised the levels and it sounded SO much better. After the song Dave goes “is that better for YOU now?”.
TDLR- I once told Dave Mustaine to “turn it up” and they did. I consider this the most “metal” thing I’ve ever done in my life.
I actually LOVE that story. Not only did you do that, but Mustaine gave you shit from the stage (also metal!), even though it made his band sound better! :) :) :)
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That is a pretty cool story
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Well, while I don't disagree about how Metallica took over the world in the early '90s, I'd daresay that maybe we could have had some more studio albums (it always took forever to to them from Load / Reload onwards), and with better quality.
The Load era was a bit confusing for old fans and new alike, it's something you appreciate in retrospect but back then those albums were considered a bit "meh". And St. Anger was an absolute disaster, outside the circle of 15-20 people worldwide who liked those songs. It was a whopping 12 years, from 1996's Load to 2008's Death Magnetic, to have an album that could have potentially went well with the fanbase, and still DM was received not so greatly and people complained about the production.
It was only with Hardwired that they did an album that most of the fanbase could get behind, with great songs and a nice sound, and still many people complain about the record anyway; Iron Maiden managed to have way more continuity and quality with the reunion era albums.
I know that in between Metallica did a lot of things and special live shows, but it would have been way nicer if we had some more "later era renaissance" good albums rather than having only Hardwired to enjoy (but I'm sure many people will equally love Death Magnetic as well, but to me that album is just a stepping stone to Hardwired, with DM they tried too haard, with Hardwired things finally came naturally).
Metallica will always be one of my favorite bands. James Hetfield is the reason I started playing guitar. I hate the fact that since the Black Album they have taken forever to release albums. I know that they tour their asses off and whatnot, but I really wish they would have released at least a couple more albums in the timeframe.
I really enjoy both DM and Hardwired, but I prefer DM slightly more. The production does suck though.
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I realized a little bit ago I never gave Lulu a spin, I've only heard bits and pieces of it so today I fixed that. I just finished the album and honestly, it's not as bad as I expected. From a pure riff and musical standpoint I'd say there are some really great riffs and moments on this record. I don't even think the poetry that Lou Reed is reading is that off putting but timbre of his voice is very off putting, it really is the abe simpson meets Metallica meme.
If Metallica released this as an instrumental and maybe cut some of the track times down this would be in the upper tier of Metallica releases for me.
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As much as I disliked Lulu at first, it kept drawing me in and I ended up acquiring the taste for it within a month or two. My only issue is that it is extremely long. I'd trim it down a bit. I also started to appreciate it even more once I got into The Velvet Underground and some of Lou's early solo stuff.
The View, Dragon, Pumping blood and Frustration have some damn good bits. I don't mind Mistress dread and Iced honey either.
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I think Iced Honey was my favorite track, I really liked Junior Dad too. I do agree that it is a long album to get through.
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I realized a little bit ago I never gave Lulu a spin, I've only heard bits and pieces of it so today I fixed that. I just finished the album and honestly, it's not as bad as I expected. From a pure riff and musical standpoint I'd say there are some really great riffs and moments on this record. I don't even think the poetry that Lou Reed is reading is that off putting but timbre of his voice is very off putting, it really is the abe simpson meets Metallica meme.
If Metallica released this as an instrumental and maybe cut some of the track times down this would be in the upper tier of Metallica releases for me.
Lulu is a Lou Reed album not a Metallica album. Lou asked Metallica to be his backing band, not Metallica asking Lou Reed to be on their album.
It's like..."I want this album to sound heavy with metal riffs, but I can't make metal riffs. Who should I ask?"
I can't get into it due to not being in the right mood for it, and It not being of much interest to me in regards to who it's made by. Lou having Metallica on the album does not draw me into listening to Lulu.
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I want to feel the bass drums in my chest, I want the guitars to be just slightly painful/intense without earplugs.
I used to think like that. Then I got tinnitus in both ears 100% of the time and realised how cretinously stupid I'd been not to take my hearing seriously enough from the moment I was old enough to attend gigs :biggrin:
And of all the bands I've seen over the years, DT are hands-down the worst offenders for simply being too loud.
Oddly, the Clash of the Titans tour in 1990 was the quietest show I've ever seen. Megadeth were one of the bands on the bill, funnily enough - enjoyed your story! Could literally have a normal conversation with my mate while the bands were playing.
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And of all the bands I've seen over the years, DT are hands-down the worst offenders for simply being too loud.
Dream Theater’s problem isn’t that they’re too loud but that their mix is terribly unbalanced. All you hear is loud drums and guitar with hardly and bass or keys present in the mix, and there’s so much reverb on James’ voice that you can’t make out what he’s singing.
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So I caught some of their 40th anniversary show on youtube. The professionally mixed/filmed version, so not an audience bootleg.
....it's rough man. Kirk is the sloppiest I've ever heard him, Jame's voice was all over the place and Lars was....well, Lars. Most of his drumming was fine, but then they went into Bleeding Me and he's BASHING the hell out of the ride and kit during the soft parts and it just ruins the whole damn thing.
Eesh. Not sure what happened that night, most of their recordings from the last year or so were much much better.
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That sucks Adami, I'll have to see if I can find some videos later today. It sucks that if they had an off night it was the 40th anniversary.
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That sucks Adami, I'll have to see if I can find some videos later today. It sucks that if they had an off night it was the 40th anniversary.
I’ll admit I skipped around a lot. So maybe just kept landing on rough spots but man were they rough.
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RIP Jonny Z.
https://bravewords.com/news/jon-zazula-megaforce-records-co-founder-dead-at-69
https://twitter.com/Metallica/status/1488718866142285829?s=20&t=GhxylfZa7PrsDusjhGxwmA
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Holy shit, anyone listened to the new single from Kirk Hammett's solo album?! This is way better than anything I was expecting. It's some tasty spaghetti western movie soundtrack excellence. I want more of this! That solo at the end :hefdaddy I like this more than anything off Hardwired, just throwing that out there.
https://open.spotify.com/track/4Eya9E3OOY9QCec2ssaG6T?si=76781endS6auNm3AnQSCGA&utm_source=copy-link (https://open.spotify.com/track/4Eya9E3OOY9QCec2ssaG6T?si=76781endS6auNm3AnQSCGA&utm_source=copy-link)
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I really enjoyed the Kirk song. Reminded me a little of the middle section of DT's Fall into the Light, which of course reminds me of Metallica. :smiley:
The descending motif in the middle might remind me of another DT section but can't place it...
Really good all round, though. Appeals to me more than anything Metallica have done since Garage Inc. Looking forward to hearing the whole EP.
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Pretty cool little instrumental - one of the themes reminds me a bit of Iron Maiden's To Tame a Land...
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Just put on Kirk's solo track - the opening, totally agree Nick, sounds just like To Tame a Land.
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I know it's a rather unpopular opinion among fans (particularly the hardcore ones) but The Black album remains my favorite - just ahead of Puppets and Ride.
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About Kirk’s solo album, just one listen and it’s really good! It’s interesting that Metallica recently released an album with orchestra and unfortunately didn’t use any of these Kirk’s musical ideas on it.
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I know it's a rather unpopular opinion among fans (particularly the hardcore ones) but The Black album remains my favorite - just ahead of Puppets and Ride.
This is what separates “headbangers” from the MUSIC fans. To each their own, but the Black Album is just undeniably a great piece of work. To hate on it because it’s not “heavy” or fast is silly.
Let’s face it, the safe play would have been to make ..And Justice Part II- and it likely would have sunk the band during the grunge era…Instead they took an incredible gamble and it paid off. At the end of the day it introduced millions of people to the metal genre that wouldn’t have otherwise been exposed to it.
As far as Kirk’s EP- if you don’t have anything nice to say….
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I know it's a rather unpopular opinion among fans (particularly the hardcore ones) but The Black album remains my favorite - just ahead of Puppets and Ride.
My thoughts exactly.
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Listened to Kirk's EP and I really enjoyed it. It's not the most amazing thing ever but it was well done, well constructed and had a great sense of atmosphere and melody to it.
Would love other people (HINT JAMES HINT) to do a solo album too.
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Listened to Kirk's EP and I really enjoyed it. It's not the most amazing thing ever but it was well done, well constructed and had a great sense of atmosphere and melody to it.
Would love other people (HINT JAMES HINT) to do a solo album too.
I've long said that "A James Hetfield solo album" is pretty much number one on my musical "wish list". I envision it to be largely acoustic, almost country. A sort of "Skynyrd album" for the 2020's.
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Listened to Kirk's EP and I really enjoyed it. It's not the most amazing thing ever but it was well done, well constructed and had a great sense of atmosphere and melody to it.
Would love other people (HINT JAMES HINT) to do a solo album too.
I've long said that "A James Hetfield solo album" is pretty much number one on my musical "wish list". I envision it to be largely acoustic, almost country. A sort of "Skynyrd album" for the 2020's.
STOP GETTING ME EXCITED!!
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Kirk's EP is nicely done. Not hugely moreish but well done.
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I also enjoyed Kirk's EP. It does create a great atmosphere and is really about the music. Not that Kirk is a 'shredder' but it is a long way from a guitar solo, show off my chops EP.
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Since I got some practice in using the ranking engine for the Maiden Top 75 countdown, just for kicks I ran it for Metallica too so I'm ready to go if that happens . . .
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Since I got some practice in using the ranking engine for the Maiden Top 75 countdown, just for kicks I ran it for Metallica too so I'm ready to go if that happens . . .
I'm actually thinking about doing that for some of my other favourite bands - just for the hell of it :lol
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Since I got some practice in using the ranking engine for the Maiden Top 75 countdown, just for kicks I ran it for Metallica too so I'm ready to go if that happens . . .
I'm actually thinking about doing that for some of my other favourite bands - just for the hell of it :lol
Yea I would be so down for that. I've checked in on the Iron Maiden top 75 thread and I'm jealous. I'm not a fan of Maiden so can't really join in properly. I'm pretty sure I could do a top 75 Metallica without too much bother.
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Without anyone spoiling Stranger Things season 4, how fucking awesome was the Master of Puppets scene??!!
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Without anyone spoiling Stranger Things season 4, how fucking awesome was the Master of Puppets scene??!!
:metal :2metal: :leaveseyes:
Only slightly ruined by some people on the internet claiming it was Sweet Child O Mine by Guns N' Roses.... :facepalm: People are dumb.
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I just saw that. It was hilarious and awesome. :tup
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Without anyone spoiling Stranger Things season 4, how fucking awesome was the Master of Puppets scene??!!
Some poster on the Stranger Thing subreddit saw the trailer of that scene when it came out and extrapolated that he was playing master of puppets way before the episodes were released. Based on finger placement, year and month of release that the show was taking place at, he correctly guessed it lol!
From what I read they hired a professional to double for the guitar playing so he played all the right notes, don't really know if they went that far, but it's entirely possible given how good and accurate it looked (at least to me).
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Since I got some practice in using the ranking engine for the Maiden Top 75 countdown, just for kicks I ran it for Metallica too so I'm ready to go if that happens . . .
I'm actually thinking about doing that for some of my other favourite bands - just for the hell of it :lol
Yea I would be so down for that. I've checked in on the Iron Maiden top 75 thread and I'm jealous. I'm not a fan of Maiden so can't really join in properly. I'm pretty sure I could do a top 75 Metallica without too much bother.
I think Metallica is more popular than Maiden on this forum so should have plenty of participants.
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Without anyone spoiling Stranger Things season 4, how fucking awesome was the Master of Puppets scene??!!
Most metal concert ever :metal :metal :metal
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Inspired by all this I've decided to stick on A Year and a Half in the Life of
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Since I got some practice in using the ranking engine for the Maiden Top 75 countdown, just for kicks I ran it for Metallica too so I'm ready to go if that happens . . .
I'm actually thinking about doing that for some of my other favourite bands - just for the hell of it :lol
Yea I would be so down for that. I've checked in on the Iron Maiden top 75 thread and I'm jealous. I'm not a fan of Maiden so can't really join in properly. I'm pretty sure I could do a top 75 Metallica without too much bother.
I think Metallica is more popular than Maiden on this forum so should have plenty of participants.
Really? I didn't know there were that many Metallica fans on the forum? I think to have 27 people participate in the Iron Maiden countdown is a pretty good effort, I'd be surprised if there were more than that if a Metallica countdown was done.
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I stand corrected. There were some very die hard Metallica fans that I don’t see posting anymore which will affect the numbers.
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It would interesting. I would have to revisit everything post TBA. If you had asked me in the 80s, I would’ve said Metallica was a top five all time band. And yet today, I only have a passing familiarity with literally half their catalog. The couple of times that I spun Hardwired, I really enjoyed it. I would easily say it’s my favorite post-TBA album. And yet even that album I’ve only spun about 10 times…and even then, not in 5 years.
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I’d be so down.
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As arguably the two biggest metal bands on the planet, I would have imagined on a forum like this, both bands would be pretty much equally popular?
I would have thought the interest would be there and I would love to participate.
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I saw Metallica live last night (in Bilbao) and I was so terribly disappointed. Their performances were good but the sound was fucking awful - very muddy, low volume overall and changes of volume between songs, etc. They even lost the sound altogether in the middle of the last song of the encore (MoP) and they just picked it up where they left it once it was fixed, which felt very underwhelming. It's a shame because they seemed kinda motivated and energetic and what could be heard sounded like they were playing pretty well, but the sound issues really killed the mood for a lot of people. I had some friends there that had attended a concert by a very popular local band a couple weeks earlier (same venue, same crowd or even more) and they said the sound was much better in that concert, so it wasn't just a venue/bad acoustics issue.
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Without anyone spoiling Stranger Things season 4, how fucking awesome was the Master of Puppets scene??!!
:metal :2metal: :leaveseyes:
Only slightly ruined by some people on the internet claiming it was Sweet Child O Mine by Guns N' Roses.... :facepalm: People are dumb.
It MAY be, and I have no proof to back this up, it's just a random thought that crossed my head - that different music was used in different countries for copyright reasons??
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As arguably the two biggest metal bands on the planet, I would have imagined on a forum like this, both bands would be pretty much equally popular?
I would have thought the interest would be there and I would love to participate.
I suspect the interest is there from the fans here to participate in a Metallica countdown, but even though I am a fan, I have no interest in running a countdown thread on them at this time (for reasons I outlined already in the Maiden thread).
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Without anyone spoiling Stranger Things season 4, how fucking awesome was the Master of Puppets scene??!!
:metal :2metal: :leaveseyes:
Only slightly ruined by some people on the internet claiming it was Sweet Child O Mine by Guns N' Roses.... :facepalm: People are dumb.
It MAY be, and I have no proof to back this up, it's just a random thought that crossed my head - that different music was used in different countries for copyright reasons??
I don't think so, only because they hired a stunt double for the guitar playing, so it looks like Eddie's fingers are lining up with the actual song. Plus, Appetite for Destruction wouldn't be out for another 15 months.
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Without anyone spoiling Stranger Things season 4, how fucking awesome was the Master of Puppets scene??!!
:metal :2metal: :leaveseyes:
Only slightly ruined by some people on the internet claiming it was Sweet Child O Mine by Guns N' Roses.... :facepalm: People are dumb.
It MAY be, and I have no proof to back this up, it's just a random thought that crossed my head - that different music was used in different countries for copyright reasons??
I don't think so, only because they hired a stunt double for the guitar playing, so it looks like Eddie's fingers are lining up with the actual song. Plus, Appetite for Destruction wouldn't be out for another 15 months.
The double they hired to play the song was Trujillos' son, Tye Trujillo.
(https://i.ibb.co/KWW4vBd/Captura-de-Pantalla-2022-07-04-a-la-s-11-01-42.png)
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Wow nice.
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It looks like on all of the European dates they’ve been closing with Master of Puppets. I hope they keep that as their closer for the next North American tour. It’s a much better show closer than Seek or Sandman, and also it’s my favorite Metallica song so for it to be the last thing I hear at that show would be amazing.
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Guys you just have to listen to this phenomenal transportation of Master of Puppets into a perfect Muse style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhqzH_ALzZ4&ab_channel=AndreAntunes
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Guys you just have to listen to this phenomenal transportation of Master of Puppets into a perfect Muse style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhqzH_ALzZ4&ab_channel=AndreAntunes
That is amazing. That guy is super talented, he's always making hilarious clips of those sound bytes and clips people post online.
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I hit the 1:00 mark, and I guess I've learned that I wouldn't like Muse.
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I'm a much bigger fan of Muse than I am of Metallica, but that felt like the guy just played the beginning of Hysteria before going into the Master... vocal melody.
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That was an excellent cover!
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Metallica announce special concert only with songs off first two albums
Metallica have announced a special show to pay tribute to the late Megaforce Records founder Jonny Zazula, who passed away earlier this year, as well as his wife Marsha, who died in 2021.
Set for November 6 on Hard Rock Live at the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Hollywood, Florida, the show will see the band play only the songs that were on the albums issued by Megaforce.
So, old school fans, rejoice, as the setlist will rely entirely on 1983's "Kill'em All" and its follow-up, 1984's "Ride the Lightning", Metallica's seminal first two records.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/metallica_announce_special_concert_only_with_songs_off_first_two_albums.html (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/metallica_announce_special_concert_only_with_songs_off_first_two_albums.html)
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AND RAVEN IS OPENING!!! :metal :metal :metal
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Jesus, I actually really wanna go to that. The set from the Hardwired Deluxe Edition is all KEA/RTl and it’s awesome, so I have no reason to believe this won’t also be. Hope they add some of the deeper cuts. Gimme some Phantom Lord and Ktulu!
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It would be cool if they played some of the covers from the early days, that were dropped as well. Stuff like Sucking My Love. Maybe James will suck it up and play Escape for a 2nd time. :laugh:
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I'd also love the full version of Four Horsemen and Battery.
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I'd also love the full version of Four Horsemen and Battery.
I think Battery would be out for this one, being from Master, but in general I agree. I miss the full versions of the old songs.
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I'd also love the full version of Four Horsemen and Battery.
I think Battery would be out for this one, being from Master, but in general I agree. I miss the full versions of the old songs.
Good point!
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I would think that, if they're only pulling from KEA and RTL, they'd do both albums in their entirety, but who knows. Maybe some Am I Evil? as well.
Seems like a strange place to do it. You'd think they'd do it in the SF Bay area or in NYC.
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I would think that, if they're only pulling from KEA and RTL, they'd do both albums in their entirety, but who knows. Maybe some Am I Evil? as well.
Seems like a strange place to do it. You'd think they'd do it in the SF Bay area or in NYC.
I hope they play both of them and release them on their bootlegs collection. Would be nice to hear a modern version of those albums.
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I would think that, if they're only pulling from KEA and RTL, they'd do both albums in their entirety, but who knows. Maybe some Am I Evil? as well.
Seems like a strange place to do it. You'd think they'd do it in the SF Bay area or in NYC.
Kill'em All is 51 minutes long, and Ride the Lightning is 47 minutes long. That makes 98 minutes. Add at the very least from 10 to 15 minutes (if not 20) to account for pauses and speeches, along with extended endings, and you have more or less a 2 hours show. Seems doable.
I'd reckon both albums might be one or two songs shorter (say, no Escape and no Anetthesia), and definitively Am I Evil might appear.
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Those are gonna sound weird drop tuned with a deep voice.
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^^ I mean they already played Kill'em All and Ride the Lightning in full at the Orion festival back in 2012 and 2013. I don't expect much of a difference with them playing it in full now, although maybe, just a tad slower due to age.
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^^ I mean they already played Kill'em All and Ride the Lightning in full at the Orion festival back in 2012 and 2013. I don't expect much of a difference with them playing it in full now, although maybe, just a tad slower due to age.
I was surprised how well James can still give those songs justice. Considering he was 19 at the time Kill 'Em All was released.
This record store day performance of those early songs they did in 2016 was so good! They can definitely still bring it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EO6gIygALw
This was the setlist for that performance. Willing to bet the Zazula shows will be an extended version of this
#---Setlist---#
Helpless
Hit The Lights
The Four Horsemen
Ride The Lightning
Fade To Black
Jump In The Fire
For Whom The Bell Tolls
Creeping Death
Metal Militia
Solo:
Kirk Doodle I
Kirk Solo I
Other:
Dirty Window
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Was with you until Dirty Window. Like the song plenty, but not at this gig.
Seek will definitely be added back in. And then what, Motorbreath? I have no idea how to improve that with the remaining songs from KEA/RtL. Gimme Blitzkrieg and Am I Evil? in full and I’ll be happy.
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Was with you until Dirty Window. Like the song plenty, but not at this gig.
Seek will definitely be added back in. And then what, Motorbreath? I have no idea how to improve that with the remaining songs from KEA/RtL. Gimme Blitzkrieg and Am I Evil? in full and I’ll be happy.
Yeah, not sure why they played that at that gig - although it looks like they just jammed on it for a minute.
I'll definitely take Blitzkrieg and Am I Evil. Honestly though, I could do without hearing Seek every again. But it most likely will make the set.
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Was with you until Dirty Window. Like the song plenty, but not at this gig.
Yeah, not sure why they played that at that gig - although it looks like they just jammed on it for a minute.
Yeah, they didn’t actually play it at all. Lars played a little bit of the opening pattern, the other 3 didn’t even engage. Can probably bump that off and move the “doodle” to before Fade and the solo to before Creeping Death. Or remove em entirely.
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Metallica announce special concert only with songs off first two albums
And this was the setlist.
Creeping Death
Ride The Lightning
Motorbreath
No Remorse
Trapped Under Ice
The Call Of Ktulu
Phantom Lord
Am I Evil
Metal Militia
For Whom The Bell Tolls
Whiplash
Fade To Black
Seek & Destroy
Encore:
Fight Fire With Fire
Bliztkrieg
Hit The Lights
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^ Sweet set list!! :metal
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I read that for some upcoming show (maybe Download?) they're doing two nights with no repeat songs between them.
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I would love for Metallica to do full album performances at some point. I mean, at this stage, no matter what album, their shows would sell out. I'm just not really interested in anything after ...And Justice for All. But if they did the whole evening with thing, and did say Puppets/Justice, or Lightning/Puppets, Kill Em All/Justice, etc., I'd pay whatever the cost.
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I would love for Metallica to do full album performances at some point. I mean, at this stage, no matter what album, their shows would sell out. I'm just not really interested in anything after ...And Justice for All. But if they did the whole evening with thing, and did say Puppets/Justice, or Lightning/Puppets, Kill Em All/Justice, etc., I'd pay whatever the cost.
I don't know that I'd go that far, but this sums up my interest to a T.
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They already did Puppets and the Black Album on European tours. Ride the Lightning was done once at an Orion festival, and I suspect it will never happen again with James' dislike of Escape.
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Isn’t most of the set list black album and prior to the point of barely recognizing the last 4 albums?
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Isn’t most of the set list black album and prior to the point of barely recognizing the last 4 albums?
Usually, yes. Here's a general breakdown of their 2022 summer festival set:
4 Metallica
3 Ride the Lightning
2 Kill ’Em All
2 Master of Puppets
1 …And Justice for All
1 Death Magnetic
1 Hardwired… to Self‐Destruct
1 St. Anger
1 Covers
On the Hardwired tour, they played 7 songs from that record, and the breakdown of the rest was 3 from TBA, 2 from Justice, 2 from MOP, and 1 each from KEA, Reload and Ride. So heavy from the new album, but still a similar breakdown of older album representation.
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Isn’t most of the set list black album and prior to the point of barely recognizing the last 4 albums?
As Grapp said, pretty much yeah. But I love full album performances. Gives me a chance to see deeper cuts that aren't played.
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I recently booked a 10 day work trip to LA in December and I should have the weekend off so was looking if there were any concerts.... Metallica are playing in LA! Too bad it's sold out and the cheapest ticket is $450 before fees on stubhub :censored I'll keep my eyes out, I would really love to attend that.
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Isn’t most of the set list black album and prior to the point of barely recognizing the last 4 albums?
Usually, yes. Here's a general breakdown of their 2022 summer festival set:
4 Metallica
3 Ride the Lightning
2 Kill ’Em All
2 Master of Puppets
1 …And Justice for All
1 Death Magnetic
1 Hardwired… to Self‐Destruct
1 St. Anger
1 Covers
On the Hardwired tour, they played 7 songs from that record, and the breakdown of the rest was 3 from TBA, 2 from Justice, 2 from MOP, and 1 each from KEA, Reload and Ride. So heavy from the new album, but still a similar breakdown of older album representation.
For the last 2 albums, when they toured them, the setlist is heavy on the new album. For Death Magnetic, they played like 6 songs live on that tour. But, typically, when they're doing the summer circuit or not necessarily touring a particular album, it's more of a "greatest hits" set.
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I recently booked a 10 day work trip to LA in December and I should have the weekend off so was looking if there were any concerts.... Metallica are playing in LA! Too bad it's sold out and the cheapest ticket is $450 before fees on stubhub :censored I'll keep my eyes out, I would really love to attend that.
I'm looking at a list of concerts around that period in the area. I see Stevie Wonder playing in the same venue the next day. Don't know if that's something you are interested, but that could be an option. If you are still around on 12/22, Jinjer and P.O.D. is playing at the Wiltern.
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I recently booked a 10 day work trip to LA in December and I should have the weekend off so was looking if there were any concerts.... Metallica are playing in LA! Too bad it's sold out and the cheapest ticket is $450 before fees on stubhub :censored I'll keep my eyes out, I would really love to attend that.
I'm looking at a list of concerts around that period in the area. I see Stevie Wonder playing in the same venue the next day. Don't know if that's something you are interested, but that could be an option. If you are still around on 12/22, Jinjer and P.O.D. is playing at the Wiltern.
Oh I may be interested in Stevie Wonder.... but I fly back home on the 22nd though
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I recently booked a 10 day work trip to LA in December and I should have the weekend off so was looking if there were any concerts.... Metallica are playing in LA! Too bad it's sold out and the cheapest ticket is $450 before fees on stubhub :censored I'll keep my eyes out, I would really love to attend that.
I'm looking at a list of concerts around that period in the area. I see Stevie Wonder playing in the same venue the next day. Don't know if that's something you are interested, but that could be an option. If you are still around on 12/22, Jinjer and P.O.D. is playing at the Wiltern.
Oh I may be interested in Stevie Wonder.... but I fly back home on the 22nd though
WASP and Armored Saint on Dec. 11 at the Wiltern.
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I recently booked a 10 day work trip to LA in December and I should have the weekend off so was looking if there were any concerts.... Metallica are playing in LA! Too bad it's sold out and the cheapest ticket is $450 before fees on stubhub :censored I'll keep my eyes out, I would really love to attend that.
I'm looking at a list of concerts around that period in the area. I see Stevie Wonder playing in the same venue the next day. Don't know if that's something you are interested, but that could be an option. If you are still around on 12/22, Jinjer and P.O.D. is playing at the Wiltern.
Oh I may be interested in Stevie Wonder.... but I fly back home on the 22nd though
WASP and Armored Saint on Dec. 11 at the Wiltern.
I fly in on the 12th :lol
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New Metallica, folks!
72 Seasons. Released in April.
New song, Lux Aeterna, available now.
77 minutes of music, tracklist:
72 Seasons
Shadows Follow
Screaming Suicide
Sleepwalk My Life Away
You Must Burn!
Lux Æterna
Crown of Barbed Wire
Chasing Light
If Darkness Had a Son
Too Far Gone?
Room of Mirrors
Inamorata
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Also massive tour announcement:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-announces-massive-m72-world-tour-for-2023-2024 (https://blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-announces-massive-m72-world-tour-for-2023-2024)
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Saw they released a new video out of nowhere. Really dug it!
Will likely do whatever I can to see the two NJ shows in 2023.
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Also massive tour announcement:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-announces-massive-m72-world-tour-for-2023-2024 (https://blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-announces-massive-m72-world-tour-for-2023-2024)
Can't believe they're skipping their hometown.
Also, Pantera opening is fucking huge
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If you told me they recorded Lux Aeterna as a cover during the Garage Inc sessions, I'd believe you. It doesn't sound like a Metallica original. It sounds like a cover they've made their own. And I really fucking like it :metal
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I'll see what I can do to get the ticket for the 2nd Inglewood show at a price I like. Interesting that they are going with an interesting concept of having two separate groups of openers. Show 1 in the NA tour has Pantera and Mammoth WVH, and show 2 has Five Finger Death Punch and Ice Nine Kills.
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Wow! They channeled Motorhead on that one. Double Bass-ahh. Nice rocker!
Wasn't expecting this at all. Seems like they just keep getting better or at least more in line with my tastes.
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Love the lack of Australian dates on this “world tour” announcement lol.
Great song though!
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That's a great song. Night 1 in Chicago with Pantera would be amazing - I might consider that. I like Five Finger Death Punch, but I don't need to see them live.
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Yeah, pretty cool, but pretty surprising there are no San Francisco or Oakland dates. That seems silly.
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I'll see how much two night tickets are. Closest show is in New Jersey and it would mean having to spend 3 nights in a motel there too. So if tickets are at a reasonable price and not 300 dollars or something, I'll do that. But I gotta save up for a honeymoon, so sadly I won't be able to do an absurd price.
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I can't imagine tickets being a reasonable price for this, it's just not the trend right now in the business.
And yeah, night 1 openers are fantastic. I don't care at all for 5 finger, but Pantera and Wolfie? I really want to be there for at least the first night, preferably both, but it may not be affordable.
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I won't be able to do an absurd price.
Everything's an absurd price these days, alas.
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Love the new song, total NWOBHM vibes. Hetfield sounds great, and a tasty solo from Kirk. Can't wait for the new album!
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I'll try to go to the first NJ show.
Enjoyed that first song :metal
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Yeah, that's a good single. I'm all sorts of excited now with this surprise announcement.
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Metallica has typically done alright by their fans. They're not cheap, but they're not absurd. And unlike Taylor Swift I don't see these shows as instant sellouts, so it should be alright. Hard to tell, though.
That said, I really don't have a ton of interest in this. The Mexico City dates have Gretta Van Fleet rather than Pantera, so that does boost my interest a bit, but probably not enough to head down there (but I've got nearly two years to decide).
All that having been said, two completely different shows is a nice touch. Normally half of their set is static and half is random. Wouldn't surprise me to see them play their entire catalogue on this trip.
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I haven't heard any of the new songs, but I have less than zero interest in a concert at a football stadium.
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Love the new song, total NWOBHM vibes. Hetfield sounds great, and a tasty solo from Kirk. Can't wait for the new album!
Production is awesome.
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I’m a little taken aback by the reaction. I’m starting to wonder if I’m listening to the same song.
It’s ok. I absolutely do not find it as hard hitting or aggressive as the title track from Hardwired. I do hear some old school NWOBHM vibes trying to break through, but it sounds like it’s being done by Pink’s backup band. :mehlin
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Sounds identical production wise to hardwired. Good but a bit too clinical for me. Wish there was more meat to the guitars. But great otherwise!
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I’m a little taken aback by the reaction. I’m starting to wonder if I’m listening to the same song.
It’s ok. I absolutely do not find it as hard hitting or aggressive as the title track from Hardwired. I do hear some old school NWOBHM vibes trying to break through, but it sounds like it’s being done by Pink’s backup band. :mehlin
It’s definitely not as hard hitting or aggressive. But why would it have to be? To me it sounds like Metallica writing what they want and nailing it. That’s all I want. If they had forced aggression, I would have been pretty turned off. Which is why I can’t connect with DM.
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My take is going to be unpopular.
This sounds like a bunch of pampered old guys trying to sound cool...and falling flat. The solo is the best thing about the tune, and even that isn't great, just solid.
People age, and James' voice is what it is. But there is no growl, no threatening-type edge to his voice, which was one of things that made Metallica distinct. They always used to sound one chord away from melting down. It made them dangerous. And that's been gone for thirty years. Adami used the word "clinical." That's sort of what I hear when listening to this. It's TOO clinical.
I realize Metallica got older, famous, and rich. And there isn't much of a desperation-fueled hunger there any longer. But that's what made Metallica really who they were. I thought the only song to really capture that vibe, post-Black album, has been "Spit Out the Bone." The whole Hardwired record was boring. There was a very... "forced" heaviness to Metallica's last couple of albums.
I'm sorry, but it is what it is. Metallica sounds lame. Just like Tesla sounds like a bunch of old dudes playing classic rock instead of the harder edge they hade in the 80s and 90s. But for thrash bands like Metallica - it is even worse. You can't go soft in the thrash genre. Not soft like Metallica has. Listen to Death Angel, Testament, hell, even Megadeth's last two records. Anthrax's last one. Blows everything Metallica has done post-Black album (and really, I'm not a huge fan of the Black album) out of the water.
This new song is lame.
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I’m with Sam.
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And that's fine. The first four albums are still there for you to enjoy 👍
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Ok...I'm going to do this "live" before I get to work.
My initial thoughts before the song starts: Lux AEterna? WTF is that? Seems pretentious. Only 3:30? Not sure what to make of that. Ok...let's go.
Production sounds typical, modern, and overly sterile. A bit of a garage band feel to it. Love the tempo, but it's really simplistic. Reminds me of something that Krokus or Armored Saint might have done 35 years ago. Were they going for irony with how dark the video is? Quite liked the guitar solo. I'm certainly not going to say that a song can't be short and good, but there just wasn't enough there. I could have listened for another couple minutes. Seems like it ought to be an intro piece to something longer. Not bad, but it reminds me of that commercial with the military guy whose sister was a chef who made "tiny food." Just not enough meat here.
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Guess it's good i didn't do much Black Friday shopping, two nights at Sofi won't be cheap...
Excited for Pantera and Mammoth WVH since I wouldn't go too out of my way to see either on their own, but will be thrilled to see them on this show.
FFDP will be an extended piss break, but my friend plays with INK so I'm happy for him to get to open for Metallica again :metal
I loved the 2 nights/different setlist approach when i went to the 40th anniversary shows last year, so hopefully they do some cool rarities again this time on top of the obvious hits and some tracks from the new album.
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I'm just grateful they're still making NWOBHM type music in 2022. Of course it's not the same sound, but the same vibe. I love it.
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I did not see this coming. The track is cool, it reminds me of Riot and some NWOBHM bands, it's like Metallica went back to their roots prior to releasing Kill 'em all. It's fun.
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Cool song, cool touring idea but I'm going to pass. Absolutely HATE stadium shows! Thankfully, we have youtube! :rollin
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The reactions are interesting.
I've moved completely away from the mindset of comparing any new music from any band, to any previous albums or timeframes. To me it's as simple as this: listen with an open mind and I either like it, love it or don't like it. In this case it's a cool hard rock song executed well and the production is great.
I love it.
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Yeah, pretty cool, but pretty surprising there are no San Francisco or Oakland dates. That seems silly.
I did notice a gap in the schedule where Aftershock is supposed to happen, I'd imagine them, Pantera, Mammoth and Five Flavor Fruit Punch would make for an outstanding start to the lineup
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The reactions are interesting.
I've moved completely away from the mindset of comparing any new music from any band, to any previous albums or timeframes. To me it's as simple as this: listen with an open mind and I either like it, love it or don't like it. In this case it's a cool hard rock song executed well and the production is great.
I love it.
I think it depends what you want out of the band. For some, they want Metallica to deliver a specific thing, and I can't fault them for not digging Metallica when they don't deliver that specific thing. Someone like me, I love Metallica when they're just writing songs they want and executing them well. So this works for me.
Oddly enough, Kirk's solos continue to be my gripe, since the people who dislike the song seem to love the solo or at least like it. I don't like the improv a generic cache of sounds Kirk. I like the well composed and thought out Kirk, or at least a solo that sounds well thought out and composed and it feels like since Bob left, Lars just instructs him to go nuts and then mix different takes of that together. So his solos haven't really done much for me since I want him to deliver a specific thing and he isn't delivering that. Fascinating stuff.
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I do think people, nowadays, need to quell their expectations when it comes to new Metallica stuff. The fact they are still willing to release an album at this period, at their age, and everything they've been through, is a big blessing that should not be taken for granted.
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I'll see how much two night tickets are. Closest show is in New Jersey and it would mean having to spend 3 nights in a motel there too. So if tickets are at a reasonable price and not 300 dollars or something, I'll do that. But I gotta save up for a honeymoon, so sadly I won't be able to do an absurd price.
How close is Stads? Maybe you could room with him. Or you guys could share a room. :tup
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I'll see how much two night tickets are. Closest show is in New Jersey and it would mean having to spend 3 nights in a motel there too. So if tickets are at a reasonable price and not 300 dollars or something, I'll do that. But I gotta save up for a honeymoon, so sadly I won't be able to do an absurd price.
How close is Stads? Maybe you could room with him. Or you guys could share a room. :tup
But then we'll never make it to the shows. :o
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I didn't realize this on first read of the news today, but the tour is also in the round which will be a pretty big spectacle for football stadiums performing at the 50 yard line. Also looks like you can buy two day passes. I got my presale code ready for Wednesday.
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When's the last time there has been a stadium tour where the stage is in the middle of the stadium? U2's 360 tour?
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And that's fine. The first four albums are still there for you to enjoy 👍
And I do. But that doesn't mean I have to fall silent and just "accept" things I don't like. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to be a hate parade. But I've expressed my thoughts on the new tune.
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Yeah, pretty cool, but pretty surprising there are no San Francisco or Oakland dates. That seems silly.
I did notice a gap in the schedule where Aftershock is supposed to happen, I'd imagine them, Pantera, Mammoth and Five Flavor Fruit Punch would make for an outstanding start to the lineup
Pass. I know you went. But as big of metal and rock fans my wife and I are, we have ZERO interest in Aftershock. The whole festival thing isn't our deal.
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The song's not horrible. There's no way that's one take with the drums, though. Lars isn't capable of maintaining double bass for that long any more. Just listen to any live performance from the last 10+ years.
1st night is absolutely perfect. 2nd night is a total clunker for me, other than a totally different Metallica set.
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Sounds identical production wise to hardwired. Good but a bit too clinical for me. Wish there was more meat to the guitars. But great otherwise!
I was just going to say this. Sounds like 'Hit the Lights' with Hardwired vocals and production. And I really liked Hardwired. This might be a hot take, but I think 'Halo on Fire' is one of their best songs. And 'Spit Out the Bone' is a fucking banger.
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I'm starting to think that there will not be a single show ticket. These appear to be being sold as a single event. Ticketbastard only has 2 day tickets listed. Something tells me the only option will be a single 2-day ticket. No way I could afford that whatever the price may be.
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I'm starting to think that there will not be a single show ticket. These appear to be being sold as a single event. Ticketbastard only has 2 day tickets listed. Something tells me the only option will be a single 2-day ticket. No way I could afford that whatever the price may be.
Two day tickets will go on sale first, and then I think in January or something single day tickets will be on sale.
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Curious about the album title. Very unusual actually. 72 Seasons = 18 years. Not sure if there’s any significance to that.
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Curious about the album title. Very unusual actually. 72 Seasons = 18 years. Not sure if there’s any significance to that.
James talked a bit about it being formative years. I'll see if I can dig up the full quote.
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"Is there a special meaning to the title?” you ask. James explains it best: “72 seasons. The first 18 years of our lives that form our true or false selves. The concept that we were told ‘who we are’ by our parents. A possible pigeonholing around what kind of personality we are. I think the most interesting part of this is the continued study of those core beliefs and how it affects our perception of the world today. Much of our adult experience is reenactment or reaction to these childhood experiences. Prisoners of childhood or breaking free of those bondages we carry.”
https://www.metallica.com/news/2022-11-28-new-album-72-seasons.html
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Lux AEterna? WTF is that? Seems pretentious.
The title means "Eternal Light" and has been used for a lot of music pieces in the past. The one I am most familiar with is an orchestral piece called "Lux Aeterna" which was used in the movie Requiem for a Dream, and has since appeared in other movies and trailers (most notable being the trailer for LotR: The Two Towers).
There's also a movie by that title, apparently, but I know nothing about it.
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When's the last time there has been a stadium tour where the stage is in the middle of the stadium? U2's 360 tour?
Which was excellent!
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I’m gonna try my hardest to snag a 2-day ticket for Chicago. I’m so excited about the new album- the titles sound so cool, especially the closer ‘Inamorata’. Maybe we’ll get the first 10+ minute epic from them this time? They did say it’s another 77 minute album
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At least when Metallica make an album, it's max effort. The last studio album under an hour was Master.
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I just read this on Metallica's website: "We told you about our new album 72 Seasons, so what’s next now that we’ve escaped the studio? Hit the road, of course! You want a tour, we’ve got a tour... how about two full years worth of shows?!?!"
Two FULL years? Eight dates over 7+ weeks in Europe, followed by nearly 7 weeks off. Then 14 shows over more than three months in North America, followed by more than 6 months off. Ten more European dates over more than 7 weeks, followed by 2 1/2 weeks off. Then another 14 North American shows jam packed into 7+ weeks. That's a grand total of 46 shows over 17 months. Unless there are LOTS of dates still to be announced, that's hardly "two full years worth of shows."
I'm starting to think that there will not be a single show ticket. These appear to be being sold as a single event. Ticketbastard only has 2 day tickets listed. Something tells me the only option will be a single 2-day ticket. No way I could afford that whatever the price may be.
At least when Metallica make an album, it's max effort. The last studio album under an hour was Master.
The band's website says two-day tickets go on sale this week and single-day tickets will go on sale in January.
The title means "Eternal Light" and has been used for a lot of music pieces in the past. The one I am most familiar with is an orchestral piece called "Lux Aeterna" which was used in the movie Requiem for a Dream, and has since appeared in other movies and trailers (most notable being the trailer for LotR: The Two Towers).
There's also a movie by that title, apparently, but I know nothing about it.
I know what it means. The use of Latin is one thing, but throwing the æsc character into the mix?
I’m gonna try my hardest to snag a 2-day ticket for Chicago. I’m so excited about the new album- the titles sound so cool, especially the closer ‘Inamorata’. Maybe we’ll get the first 10+ minute epic from them this time? They did say it’s another 77 minute album
Pat Benatar cover.
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They did say it’s another 77 minute album
That means an average track length of around 6:30
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They did say it’s another 77 minute album
That means an average track length of around 6:30
even higher when you subtract the short single out of it from today
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Really like the new song. Definitely has an old school Metallica vibe.
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I'm starting to think that there will not be a single show ticket. These appear to be being sold as a single event. Ticketbastard only has 2 day tickets listed. Something tells me the only option will be a single 2-day ticket. No way I could afford that whatever the price may be.
Two day tickets will go on sale first, and then I think in January or something single day tickets will be on sale.
Well, seeing how well they handled Taylor Swift tickets, I'm sure Ticketbastard will still have single day ones left. Let's just say, I'll believe it when I see it.
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I just read this on Metallica's website: "We told you about our new album 72 Seasons, so what’s next now that we’ve escaped the studio? Hit the road, of course! You want a tour, we’ve got a tour... how about two full years worth of shows?!?!"
Two FULL years? Eight dates over 7+ weeks in Europe, followed by nearly 7 weeks off. Then 14 shows over more than three months in North America, followed by more than 6 months off. Ten more European dates over more than 7 weeks, followed by 2 1/2 weeks off. Then another 14 North American shows jam packed into 7+ weeks. That's a grand total of 46 shows over 17 months. Unless there are LOTS of dates still to be announced, that's hardly "two full years worth of shows."
Which I would damn well hope there is, given nothing Asian or Australian on a world tour
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I like the idea of what James is talking about. Sounds like Metallica has put together a bit of a conceptual album. Or at least something based on a general theme.
I'd be open to checking it out.
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Holy hell, that’s actually the entire tour itinerary for the next two years. M72 is severely lacking and I kinda don’t want to bother with the album now?
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Do people understand that these guys are old and don't have as much desire to go out on the road like they used to?
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Do people understand that these guys are old and don't have as much desire to go out on the road like they used to?
This, and also I feel the same when I see people complain "they don't sound as fast or energetic anymore". Like if you want that same 'punched in the face' energy and pace of their classic albums, you don't turn to the 60 year olds in Metallica to bring it out again, you turn to a newer band with guys in their 20s/30s making that music now. :P
I'm hyped for a new album and I'm gonna try to score tickets to both their shows if I can. Haven't seen them live before and this seems like a great opportunity to get plenty of songs.
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It's not even just about desire. They might have the desire to play more shows, but at their age it may just be too much,who can blame them.
At this point I'm just happy they are still touring at all. I've not seen them live since 2008, and I really feel I need to next year as ot may be my last chance.
I hope when they call it a day on Metallica, James releases a country album, I think it'd be dope.
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Metallica's live shows have suffered as James has gotten older. He simply can't sing like he used to, and they play slower. Which is no big deal to me, but it should have signaled to many that the writing was on the wall.
To be honest, I expected this. I saw Metallica once, on the Death Magnetic tour. I was very disappointed, but glad I went, considering how much I love the And Justice for All album and had been a fan since then. My hope is, this new record is way better than the advance single, and that perhaps they've done something adventurous like a concept or theme.
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Really cool this new song! Musically, it's a much better tribute to Lemmy than Murder One.
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Is it supposed to be a tribute to Lemmy?
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Is it supposed to be a tribute to Lemmy?
No, I don't think so. It's just that the new song is a really cool song that reminds me a lot of Motorhead. And Murder One, that is the actual tribute, is a bit boring song IMO.
Also I think the cover of the album is really refreshing. My only complaint is that they didn't make the name Metallica stylized like the letter M at the cover.
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Strange that the tour is hitting Edmonton, then Seattle 5 days later, and skipping right over Vancouver. I’m not bothered though, as I have seen Metallica live plenty of times.
The new song has a real New Wave on British Heavy Metal feel, but I can't say that it excites me.
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I didn't have high expectations for this, but wow that production is bad. The bass drums sound like they were recorded by a band with no budget. And I hate that modern metal production where the music sounds colorless, which is what this is to a 't.'
Oh well, I saw them once in the late 90s and that was enough for me.
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Two FULL years? Eight dates over 7+ weeks in Europe, followed by nearly 7 weeks off. Then 14 shows over more than three months in North America, followed by more than 6 months off. Ten more European dates over more than 7 weeks, followed by 2 1/2 weeks off. Then another 14 North American shows jam packed into 7+ weeks. That's a grand total of 46 shows over 17 months. Unless there are LOTS of dates still to be announced, that's hardly "two full years worth of shows."
According to the FAQ section of their website for this tour, this is it. Here's a direct quote... "There are no plans to add additional headlining shows to the schedule for the next two years; the band may make very limited appearances at special events."
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I have to say that the new song was fun and catchy imo!
And I really like the album title and the concept! I'm looking forward to this. I'm surprised that Metallica had the energy to put out another album. Two of my best friends are huge Metallica nerds, and I know that they are over the moon with this!
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I'm not much of a fan anymore. Load was the last one I really dug but ....
That was really fun! Sounds like a track from Garage Days, and that tends to be what I reach for if I want some 'Tallica. If the album is similar I'll probably enjoy it.
The drums are still too loud, like Hardwired, and I'd dig more crust on it, but overall impression exceeded expectations.
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I do think this two year tour is a bit lacking in terms of dates and cities. I'm fortunate it's coming to me (and historically, they hardly ever play in NJ so maybe that's why?). But I can't blame the band who's so damn big that they can dictate the terms of touring to be limited to 2 weekend nights in the same city per week. That's quite amazing actually. I expect a lot of people to travel for these shows. You can make it a long weekend in a city and see close to 4 hours of Metallica plus 4 other bands. While I have no interest in seeing 5 Finger, you still have to admit, they pulled out some well known bands to open. It's a well thought out plan that only a band like Metallica could do.
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I do think this two year tour is a bit lacking in terms of dates and cities. I'm fortunate it's coming to me (and historically, they hardly ever play in NJ so maybe that's why?). But I can't blame the band who's so damn big that they can dictate the terms of touring to be limited to 2 weekend nights in the same city per week. That's quite amazing actually. I expect a lot of people to travel for these shows. You can make it a long weekend in a city and see close to 4 hours of Metallica plus 4 other bands. While I have no interest in seeing 5 Finger, you still have to admit, they pulled out some well known bands to open. It's a well thought out plan that only a band like Metallica could do.
I agree with this - we're going to wait for one day tickets to go on sale and then try to get tickets for the first night at Soldier Field in Chicago. With two young kids, we can't do 2 shows in a weekend. But we can definitely handle one night out and my wife has decided that she wants to go see them and check them off the list. I haven't seen them since 2000, so it will be fun to see them again and catch the Pantera reunion/tribute.
Metallica has been pretty open about how they tour - a week or two on, then some time off at home, then another week or two on. With Hardwired, they were very open about how it was better to play one giant stadium show vs. two smaller indoor arena shows in a city.
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Also in the current state of the world, committing to more shows could include financial risks they're not willing to take at this time. Logistical costs of touring in Europe from the US have tripled during the last year! The band themselves are well off but they also employ a lot of touring staff.
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Even as someone who isn't that big on Death Magnetic or Hardwired (though the latter I have only listened to a few times) I don't think this new single sounds amazing or anything but it sounds perfectly fine for what I expect. If you put things into perspective, this will only be Metallica's 11th album in a 40 year long career and it's crazy to think that Rob has been in the band for 20 years now and this is only the third studio album he's a part of. They made as many albums with Cliff in 3 years as they have with Rob in 20 which is kinda funny to me.
The song does have some Kill Em All vibes, and while it does sound a bit 'like expected', I feel like maybe it was just a safe choice for a single. There could be more interesting songs on the album, at least I hope so, but it also makes sense to just release something short and to the point. Especially considering how kinda 'bloated' their songs have been on the last 2 albums. It also feels like a new Metallica album is just a reason to go out on tour again, play the songs people want to hear but also add some new songs in the mix to keep it interesting for them as well. It must get pretty boring playing the same songs for all these years so I'm sure having a few new ones makes a difference.
There's plenty of other bands who have been around for decades who churn out albums that aren't as good as the classics but they're still 'doing their thing' and pleasing fans whether it's DT, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple or so on, I don't see why Metallica should get any flack for it. I remember a huge gripe I had with the band was that they weren't prolific enough. I had to wait years for Death Magnetic and then Hardwired was basically another decade after that. Even if this ends up being a 3/5 album or something, it's nice to get something.
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I am happy James can still sing and play guitar at all considering the unmitigated energy and ferocity he put into his performances for decades. In the mid-80s it was like he was from another planet.
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Do people understand that these guys are old and don't have as much desire to go out on the road like they used to?
That's fine. I don't care how many shows they schedule. However, if they're going to schedule only 46 shows over 17 months but call it "two full years worth of shows," then I'm going to call them out for spouting unmitigated bullshit.
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Do people understand that these guys are old and don't have as much desire to go out on the road like they used to?
That's fine. I don't care how many shows they schedule. However, if they're going to schedule only 46 shows over 17 months but call it "two full years worth of shows," then I'm going to call them out for spouting unmitigated bullshit.
Yeah, they can advertise it as their only shows in the next two years but don't act like it's an extensive tour.
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It may also be the case that they're leaving space to add shows should they sell out in specific cities, a la Taylor Swift. I wouldn't expect these to be sellouts, though. The in the round configuration plus GA on the floor will totally max out stadium capacity. They could easily get 110k into Jerry World, but there's no way they do. Traditionally they're hard pressed to get half that.
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It may also be the case that they're leaving space to add shows should they sell out in specific cities, a la Taylor Swift. I wouldn't expect these to be sellouts, though. The in the round configuration plus GA on the floor will totally max out stadium capacity. They could easily get 110k into Jerry World, but there's no way they do. Traditionally they're hard pressed to get half that.
Yeah, I was wondering this as well. Metallica played Metlife in 2016 and it sold pretty well, but I don't recall it being a sell out without being in the round. They also had Avenged Sevenfold and Volbeat on the bill so it was a good bill overall.
I do think though, that things have changed since then. People seem to value concerts a lot more these days. I actually think these will sell really well, but not enitrely sure they will be hard to get tickets. I think it will come down to how far people are willing to travel for these. I plan on trying to get tickets tomorrow, but only if I can get prices before dynamic pricing takes effect. I also wouldn't be surprised if the 2nd nights are significantly cheaper on the secondary markets. I think Pantera is a big draw for a lot of people.
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SoFi Stadium is a slightly smaller configuration than the last time Metallica was in the SoCal area (they played one show at the Rose Bowl in 2017 with A7X and Gojira opening). The openers aren't as a Wow factor as A7X and Gojira (depending on how one would view the whole Pantera thing) in my opinion. But there are two shows there. FFDP did just finish a tour (with Megadeth being a main support band, just to put it out there). I guess people in the bay area and North California may fancy taking a trip down south if they really want to see Metallica. I hope I can get a good seat at under $100.00 a ticket with the overall bigger capacity with the in the round setting, but I'm more than content with the 40th anniversary shows last year I went to when they did two completely different sets, playing 32 different songs in that span.
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(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/317386077_10225839709971000_805706892440091430_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=484th7Fg9OsAX-Z360w&tn=7w_PzZbA5sq9qKMC&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AfCmbYpCnIW3DPouTYtnwZli9eUdBCum6tUDCOXTuhW_cQ&oe=638C4507)
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The new song is pretty meh. Sounds very generic, like something Ripper Owens would be attached to.
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Do people understand that these guys are old and don't have as much desire to go out on the road like they used to?
That's fine. I don't care how many shows they schedule. However, if they're going to schedule only 46 shows over 17 months but call it "two full years worth of shows," then I'm going to call them out for spouting unmitigated bullshit.
Yeah, they can advertise it as their only shows in the next two years but don't act like it's an extensive tour.
Also, don’t call it a world tour. It isn’t.
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Speaking of misnomers, I notice that we've dropped any pretense with this "Pantera" thing being a one-off tribute. All the bills I've seen is "reformed Pantera". That's a different vibe than all the backtracking we got from Zakk and Charlie when it was first announced.
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Tix are actually available for just over $200. For 2 shows, that's pretty awesome.
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So I sat down last night with Mrs. Samsara and we listened again to Lux Aeterna. We wanted to give it a fair listen on a good sound system.
Here was where we were at after talking about it (part of this is about the song, but is mostly about Metallica in general):
1. It sounds like Metallica doing a cover of Motorhead...but a very polished one. Like taking the danger out of the sound and making it nice and polished for radio consumption. It doesn't sound like METALLICA at all.
2. James is, unfortunately, the major issue. I feel for the guy. He's getting older and while he may be as rich as someone is going to get, he is obviously struggling with getting older and mortality. This much is clear from his relapse and then the on-stage sort of breakdown he had earlier this year. But his singing...here's the thing. James' voice, through the Black album was...dangerous. Angry. Intense. These are the words I associate with James Hetfield from 1981-1992. You put on any of those Metallica records from that time period (minus the song Nothing Else Matters) and James always felt like he was going to rip your head off. Even with the more mid-tempo, moody tunes, he was on the edge, and it made Metallica special. He's lost that. Completely. I said the other day the closest I felt he really got to capturing that voice again was "Spit Out the Bone," but it didn't quite get there. To my ears, if Het isn't intense, then it isn't really the right voice for Metallica. And that really pains me to say, because I know he's going through things as a person and that sucks. But he's not a pure singer. He's the frontman for the band that basically started thrash metal. And that's the guy that gave Metallica its edge. And it's gone. Lux Aeterna would have been so much better with James singing gruffer like he used to.
3. Thrash bands, in my view, have a very limited box to work in. EVERY thrash band made their version of the Black album. Megadeth did Countdown, Death Angel did Act III, Testament did The Ritual, etc. The issue is - those bands have all found their way back to thrash, and Metallica, for whatever reason, hasn't. I remember Het (or it could have been Lars) doing an interview about ...And Justice for All, and them saying that there really wasn't any place left to go from an aggressive nature after ...And Justice. And they are right. Justice is a prog-thrash record, and there really hasn't been anything in my mind in the genre that has taken that sound any FURTHER in terms of speed, complexity and intensity with a clean-ish vocal. Not in the thrash sub genre. I mean, Machine Head did The Blackening, but it really just stood on the shoulders of Justice. MAYBE the death metal bands have, but then there's no clean vocal. Bottom line is - I get why Metallica changed their sound with the Black album. They had taken thrash as complex and intense as they could get it, and 30+ years later, no one (IMO) has really taken it further. HOWEVER, those other bands I mentioned all RETURNED to thrash and excelled writing and playing music in that style. Metallica, IMO, has NOT. And that's completely bewildering to me. Metallica is the creator of thrash metal. Did it for 4+ albums. Yes, their fans gobble up everything and smack down people who don't agree it's great. But the truth of the matter is - Metallica has lost their way. Either on purpose, or for whatever reason, it's like they refuse to go back to thrash. I know folks would argue Death Magnetic was that return. But that was one of the most CONTRIVED and fake things I have ever listened to. Their heart wasn't in it. I say all this to say, I firmly believe their hearts were in the style they played on Hardwired and on this new record. But it's not the genre of music they defined. I have a really hard time accepting that. I get they are all rich and not hungry and angry any longer. But that doesn't mean you abandon the music style you defined. It's just a waste...
4. We're happy Metallica is making new music. Regardless of our thoughts on the new song, Metallica doesn't have to put out new music, and they are. And to be frank, I am really excited to hear the album. It's so obviously a concept record from the way James described it. The album cover speaks volumes too. But my hope is that the polish of Lux Aeterna doesn't mar the emotional vibe that is clearly going to be a big part of the new album.
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Everything about James is less angry. Unfortunately, it has been for the last 20 years or so. Ever since it became the "'Tallica Family", he's been less angry. Truthfully, I was hoping with his divorce, we'd get the return of "C'mon, Fuckers!" and less "Metallica Loves You"! But, I know that's just wishful thinking. I've heard some people question whether his heart is even in the live shows anymore, that the only reason he's still doing it is because too many people rely on him (crew).
As for the new song, it totally sounds like Motorhead. In fact, the drums sound exactly like "Overkill" from 'Garage, Inc.'. At the very least, his drums are totally punched in. He can't do that anymore.
That said, Metallica live at 70% is still a better show than most at 100%. If at all possible, I'll be at MetLife for both nights.
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2. James is, unfortunately, the major issue. I feel for the guy. He's getting older and while he may be as rich as someone is going to get, he is obviously struggling with getting older and mortality. This much is clear from his relapse and then the on-stage sort of breakdown he had earlier this year. But his singing...here's the thing. James' voice, through the Black album was...dangerous. Angry. Intense. These are the words I associate with James Hetfield from 1981-1992. You put on any of those Metallica records from that time period (minus the song Nothing Else Matters) and James always felt like he was going to rip your head off. Even with the more mid-tempo, moody tunes, he was on the edge, and it made Metallica special. He's lost that. Completely. I said the other day the closest I felt he really got to capturing that voice again was "Spit Out the Bone," but it didn't quite get there. To my ears, if Het isn't intense, then it isn't really the right voice for Metallica. And that really pains me to say, because I know he's going through things as a person and that sucks. But he's not a pure singer. He's the frontman for the band that basically started thrash metal. And that's the guy that gave Metallica its edge. And it's gone. Lux Aeterna would have been so much better with James singing gruffer like he used to.
You'll never get that back. I feel the exact same way as you do. He changed the way he sings after the Black album tour when he blew out his voice. That angry bark seemed fully gone after his first stint in rehab after St. Anger, when he was the new happy-go-lucky James. I try to not get hung up on it and traces of that old style show up every now and again. But that ferociousness from James' vocals like in the Seattle '89 video are certainly my favorite way to hear him sing.
3. Thrash bands, in my view, have a very limited box to work in. EVERY thrash band made their version of the Black album. Megadeth did Countdown, Death Angel did Act III, Testament did The Ritual, etc. The issue is - those bands have all found their way back to thrash, and Metallica, for whatever reason, hasn't. I remember Het (or it could have been Lars) doing an interview about ...And Justice for All, and them saying that there really wasn't any place left to go from an aggressive nature after ...And Justice. And they are right. Justice is a prog-thrash record, and there really hasn't been anything in my mind in the genre that has taken that sound any FURTHER in terms of speed, complexity and intensity with a clean-ish vocal. Not in the thrash sub genre. I mean, Machine Head did The Blackening, but it really just stood on the shoulders of Justice. MAYBE the death metal bands have, but then there's no clean vocal. Bottom line is - I get why Metallica changed their sound with the Black album. They had taken thrash as complex and intense as they could get it, and 30+ years later, no one (IMO) has really taken it further. HOWEVER, those other bands I mentioned all RETURNED to thrash and excelled writing and playing music in that style. Metallica, IMO, has NOT. And that's completely bewildering to me. Metallica is the creator of thrash metal. Did it for 4+ albums. Yes, their fans gobble up everything and smack down people who don't agree it's great. But the truth of the matter is - Metallica has lost their way. Either on purpose, or for whatever reason, it's like they refuse to go back to thrash. I know folks would argue Death Magnetic was that return. But that was one of the most CONTRIVED and fake things I have ever listened to. Their heart wasn't in it. I say all this to say, I firmly believe their hearts were in the style they played on Hardwired and on this new record. But it's not the genre of music they defined. I have a really hard time accepting that. I get they are all rich and not hungry and angry any longer. But that doesn't mean you abandon the music style you defined. It's just a waste...
Artistically, they seem to be in a moving forward attitude. It's a very "been there, done that" thing with them. They'd rather try something new than ape on their 1980's style again and again. I don't know if it's James' vocals holding them back or not. When Hardwired came out, he talked about how someone else in the band acted like "the riff police," and constantly told him that some of his riffs weren't good enough, which made him mad. I took that comment to mean that Lars was pushing James to write different riffs. So Lars could be pushing them away from that older style too. Who knows at this point?
4. We're happy Metallica is making new music. Regardless of our thoughts on the new song, Metallica doesn't have to put out new music, and they are. And to be frank, I am really excited to hear the album. It's so obviously a concept record from the way James described it. The album cover speaks volumes too. But my hope is that the polish of Lux Aeterna doesn't mar the emotional vibe that is clearly going to be a big part of the new album.
That's how I feel - at least they're still being creative and they still play a decent chunk of the new songs live. I really loved James' lyrics on the Load albums, and I think he may have been in a similar headspace recently, needing to exercise some demons again.
Speaking of misnomers, I notice that we've dropped any pretense with this "Pantera" thing being a one-off tribute. All the bills I've seen is "reformed Pantera". That's a different vibe than all the backtracking we got from Zakk and Charlie when it was first announced.
That's all coming from outside of the band, whether it's promoters, fans or the media. None of the four members have said anything other than wanting to pay homage to Dime and Vinnie. Even the Metallica tour announcement referred to Pantera by name only, avoiding any language connected to tribute or reformation. The Metallica dates are still limited in nature as well.
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And for the record, my family and I are eyeing going to see Metalilca/Pantera/Mammoth WVH on Aug. 30, 2024, in Seattle. :metal
One day tix though. No interest in doing it two days in a row, and certainly not with Five Finger Death Punch and Ice Nine Kills. :lol
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Tix are actually available for just over $200. For 2 shows, that's pretty awesome.
I was so annoyed. THey even had $100 tickets for front row of the top section. I go to buy them and ticket master gives me an error kicking me out and making me wait in the queue, for which when I got back, none of those tickets were available. I spent $550 after fees for 3 fairly crappy seats. But honestly, that's not a bad price considering it's for both nights and being that it's in the round, I'm not entirely sure these seats will be that bad.
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Tix are actually available for just over $200. For 2 shows, that's pretty awesome.
I was so annoyed. THey even had $100 tickets for front row of the top section. I go to buy them and ticket master gives me an error kicking me out and making me wait in the queue, for which when I got back, none of those tickets were available. I spent $550 after fees for 3 fairly crappy seats. But honestly, that's not a bad price considering it's for both nights and being that it's in the round, I'm not entirely sure these seats will be that bad.
What section are you in? I got Section 309, Row 3 for the same price. Less than $200 for 2 Metallica shows is great. I paid the same amount per ticket for next year's P!nk show (the day before Metallica show 1).
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Tix are actually available for just over $200. For 2 shows, that's pretty awesome.
I was so annoyed. THey even had $100 tickets for front row of the top section. I go to buy them and ticket master gives me an error kicking me out and making me wait in the queue, for which when I got back, none of those tickets were available. I spent $550 after fees for 3 fairly crappy seats. But honestly, that's not a bad price considering it's for both nights and being that it's in the round, I'm not entirely sure these seats will be that bad.
What section are you in? I got Section 309, Row 3 for the same price. Less than $200 for 2 Metallica shows is great. I paid the same amount per ticket for next year's P!nk show (the day before Metallica show 1).
Section 227B, so end zone which I'm not happy about, but I thought the price was good for me. It also stated you can't resell the 2 day ticket as a one day. One night, presumably the second, I'll be taking my gf and her father. The first night I need to find 2 friends to come with me.
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The first night I need to find 2 friends to come with me.
(https://media.tenor.com/p8BpSVS0W6cAAAAC/rachelbloom-crazyexgifriend.gif)
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Well, come to Jersey!
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Got 3 seats halfway up 200 level at Sofi for $360 each after fees, for two nights and not in the nosebleeds I'd say that's pretty reasonable.
They did also say that the 2-day tickets would be cheaper than 2 1-day tickets, so these prices sound about right for that. wasn't going for GA so any seat is just as good as any other for me when its in the round like this
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The song is alright, I'm more interested in the whole album experience and how many unusual but cool things will be in there.
I wonder what the last song is about. "Inamorata" reminds me of two things:
- A brand by Emily Ratasomething
- A mispelling of the italian word "innamorata" which is the female form for being in love (she's in love = è innamorata).
Either options are not convincing for a Metallica song :lol
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The song is alright, I'm more interested in the whole album experience and how many unusual but cool things will be in there.
I wonder what the last song is about. "Inamorata" reminds me of two things:
- A brand by Emily Ratasomething
- A mispelling of the italian word "innamorata" which is the female form for being in love (she's in love = è innamorata).
Either options are not convincing for a Metallica song :lol
Inamorata could be about James’s failed marriage
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I wonder what the last song is about. "Inamorata" reminds me of two things:
- A brand by Emily Ratasomething
- A mispelling of the italian word "innamorata" which is the female form for being in love (she's in love = è innamorata).
(https://i.discogs.com/_aWhrLEkq-5adHgJ1CZpNfNYAEbERCichWtXnGD3tkw/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:583/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTExNTIx/MjI3LTE1MTc4MDMy/NDItOTA4Ni5qcGVn.jpeg)
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2 songs with titles in Latin, we'll see if there's a connection (likely not as this first single just seems like the obligatory faster track to throw the old-school fans a bone).
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Tix are actually available for just over $200. For 2 shows, that's pretty awesome.
I spent $550 after fees for 3 fairly crappy seats. But honestly, that's not a bad price considering it's for both nights and being that it's in the round, I'm not entirely sure these seats will be that bad.
So that's less then a hundred dollars a piece for each night which isn't terrible. But man, we have lost sight of what concert tickets should be. It's gotten to the point where society is used to to getting ripped off. I can only imagine what it would have cost you for premium seats.
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But my hope is that the polish of Lux Aeterna doesn't mar the emotional vibe that is clearly going to be a big part of the new album.
This is 2022. It's all going to be polished. What they need to do is go back to recording and producing on analog equipment.
Given how often they release albums, I think this is the last one.
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Tix are actually available for just over $200. For 2 shows, that's pretty awesome.
I spent $550 after fees for 3 fairly crappy seats. But honestly, that's not a bad price considering it's for both nights and being that it's in the round, I'm not entirely sure these seats will be that bad.
So that's less then a hundred dollars a piece for each night which isn't terrible. But man, we have lost sight of what concert tickets should be. It's gotten to the point where society is used to to getting ripped off. I can only imagine what it would have cost you for premium seats.
Lower bowl was 300-400 before fees. Honestly not terrible considering it's two nights. You don't want to know what I spent this morning for a single concert of Motley Crue / Def Leppard :lol
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Wait you actually have to PAY money to see Crue these days?
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I'd gladly pay to see Def Leppard, that's for sure, as for Motley, other than Vince, the band is fine. Also, that will be the first show with John 5 on guitar who I'm a pretty big fan of and a smaller venue (7k capacity compared to averaging 35k over the summer). I think it's very expensive, but I also think there's some value there if you are a fan like I am.
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I'd gladly pay to see Def Leppard, that's for sure, as for Motley, other than Vince, the band is fine. Also, that will be the first show with John 5 on guitar who I'm a pretty big fan of and a smaller venue (7k capacity compared to averaging 35k over the summer). I think it's very expensive, but I also think there's some value there if you are a fan like I am.
Oh yea, I can see it for Def Leppard. I only know their hits, but they seem like a worthwhile band. And I totally get the excitement for their first show with John 5. I guess Vince just ruins it to such a high degree for me. Though I am not a huge fan to begin with.
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I saw the Stadium tour in the summer, I rank it as one of the best of the 60 shows I saw this year. I know a lot of it is tastes, but I enjoyed it enough to want another taste. I actually didn't think Vince was all that bad at my show. Yeah, he wasn't good, but it's not like it ruined the show by any means. I thought Axl was worse when I saw GNR last year.
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I saw the Stadium tour in the summer, I rank it as one of the best of the 60 shows I saw this year. I know a lot of it is tastes, but I enjoyed it enough to want another taste. I actually didn't think Vince was all that bad at my show. Yeah, he wasn't good, but it's not like it ruined the show by any means. I thought Axl was worse when I saw GNR last year.
Holy crap you've seen so many shows this year that you have a top 60?!? That is an incredible commitment to live shows.
And yea, Axl is awful as well. Sadly. I'm a bigger fan of old GnR though than I am either Leppard or Crue.
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It's not a top 60, the last show I went to was #60 this year. I only ranked the top 10 on twitter the other week for fun.
1) Nightwish/Beast in Black
2) Motley Crue/Def Leppard/Poison/Joan Jett
3) Parkway Drive/While She Sleeps/Lorna Shore
4) 311 Day Night 1
5) Sabaton/Epica
6) Aerosmith/Extreme
7) 311 Day Night 2
8) Iron Maiden/Within Temptation
9) Rammstein
10) Tears for Fears/Garbage
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I've been to 1 show this year, not counting my wife's choir.
So 60 is amazingly impressive to me.
Hell, 10 is amazingly impressive to me.
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It's not only just my hobby, but I make youtube videos for all but 3 of those concerts too. It's become my favorite thing to do in this world. Anyway, 60 is not the limit, I have 4 more on my calendar for December and I'd love to somehow get my ass into that Metallica concert in LA in a few weeks.
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The song's not horrible. There's no way that's one take with the drums, though. Lars isn't capable of maintaining double bass for that long any more. Just listen to any live performance from the last 10+ years.
I question how much of it is actually Lars playing period.
Nice write-ups, Samsara and Grappler. Much agreed!
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Wait you actually have to PAY money to see Crue these days?
I thought Motley Crud did a farewell tour a few years ago. Or are they pulling a KISS move?
The song's not horrible. There's no way that's one take with the drums, though. Lars isn't capable of maintaining double bass for that long any more. Just listen to any live performance from the last 10+ years.
I question how much of it is actually Lars playing period.
Rick Beato did a "reaction" video for the song, and there's a comment in there about the drum track being heavily edited (or something to that effect).
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I'll have to check it out pg
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The drums sound edited but not to play something Lars can't play, likely just to clean up so it sounds perfectly clean.
And obviously it's not a single take. Generally none of the drums you hear on an album are just a single take. They're mostly a bunch of takes edited together.
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I saw Mike the Music Snob do a fair review of the song on YouTube, and he had a hard time believing that Lars did that drum track in the studio. He didn't say for sure though..
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There's nothing difficult about the drums. Lars is perfectly capable of playing everything in that song.
Just not in one take and not without someone cleaning it up.
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....not without someone cleaning it up.
One heck of a clean up project, I'm thinking.
You're right, none of it's all that complicated, so yeah it's possible. But we've all heard Lars play in recent years without the studio magic, right?
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“Hey Lars, give me a few seconds of double bass!”
“Ok great! We’ll just loop it! Great job, Lars! Sounds fantastic!”
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....not without someone cleaning it up.
One heck of a clean up project, I'm thinking.
You're right, none of it's all that complicated, so yeah it's possible. But we've all heard Lars play in recent years without the studio magic, right?
He’s actually pretty solid when he’s not playing a full show in front of a huge audience. I actually had to check a few times to make sure there wasn’t a click track.
Again, nothing difficult, these are some low standards.
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....not without someone cleaning it up.
One heck of a clean up project, I'm thinking.
You're right, none of it's all that complicated, so yeah it's possible. But we've all heard Lars play in recent years without the studio magic, right?
He’s actually pretty solid when he’s not playing a full show in front of a huge audience. I actually had to check a few times to make sure there wasn’t a click track.
Again, nothing difficult, these are some low standards.
How would you check that?
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Sorry, why are we even discussing the recording of the drums in one take or not? I missed a post about Lars or the band stating they were recorded in one take? I thought it was standard procedure, during the recording of an album, to do many takes of everything and then combining them into the final version...
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....not without someone cleaning it up.
One heck of a clean up project, I'm thinking.
You're right, none of it's all that complicated, so yeah it's possible. But we've all heard Lars play in recent years without the studio magic, right?
He’s actually pretty solid when he’s not playing a full show in front of a huge audience. I actually had to check a few times to make sure there wasn’t a click track.
Again, nothing difficult, these are some low standards.
How would you check that?
Nothing fancy. I have a metronome on my phone. I just tap the tempo I hear him playing and move around a bit in that general area and see if he stays with it or if he speeds up/slows down throughout riffs. While I guess he could technically be playing to a click track that does change tempos throughout riffs, I don’t think they care enough for that.
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I don't have a source, but I thought it was just a myth that he doesn't record to a click.
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....not without someone cleaning it up.
One heck of a clean up project, I'm thinking.
You're right, none of it's all that complicated, so yeah it's possible. But we've all heard Lars play in recent years without the studio magic, right?
He’s actually pretty solid when he’s not playing a full show in front of a huge audience. I actually had to check a few times to make sure there wasn’t a click track.
Again, nothing difficult, these are some low standards.
Yes, yes, I always look to compliment a drummer who is "pretty solid" when playing in front of no one. :lol :lol
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Hey, I said these were some low standards! :lol
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My take is going to be unpopular.
This sounds like a bunch of pampered old guys trying to sound cool...and falling flat. The solo is the best thing about the tune, and even that isn't great, just solid.
People age, and James' voice is what it is. But there is no growl, no threatening-type edge to his voice, which was one of things that made Metallica distinct. They always used to sound one chord away from melting down. It made them dangerous. And that's been gone for thirty years. Adami used the word "clinical." That's sort of what I hear when listening to this. It's TOO clinical.
I realize Metallica got older, famous, and rich. And there isn't much of a desperation-fueled hunger there any longer. But that's what made Metallica really who they were. I thought the only song to really capture that vibe, post-Black album, has been "Spit Out the Bone." The whole Hardwired record was boring. There was a very... "forced" heaviness to Metallica's last couple of albums.
I'm sorry, but it is what it is. Metallica sounds lame. Just like Tesla sounds like a bunch of old dudes playing classic rock instead of the harder edge they hade in the 80s and 90s. But for thrash bands like Metallica - it is even worse. You can't go soft in the thrash genre. Not soft like Metallica has. Listen to Death Angel, Testament, hell, even Megadeth's last two records. Anthrax's last one. Blows everything Metallica has done post-Black album (and really, I'm not a huge fan of the Black album) out of the water.
This new song is lame.
I haven't posted on the new song/tour/album but I wanted to go back to this post. There's a lot to chew on here.
Let me start out with what I disagree with first.
The Tesla comp is a low blow. The last two Tesla albums have been a joke. Embarrassing, actually. Metallica is not at their level by a mile.
I also don't think the new song is lame either. I find it punchy, and at least it's heavy. It's a style I dig, and I have no problem that it's an "in their wheelhouse" track. It definitely has me excited to hear more.
Now, let me get to the bolded which I am in 100% agreement with. Testament has been crushing it. Megadeth also has more often than not, but at least Dave has stayed true. What about Flotsam & Jetsam? They've also been killing it.
I actually like Death Magnetic a lot, and Hardwired as well. But their lack of material post TBA is stunning. And I can even agree that they basically just go in and "bang out an album". You can tell that Testament, F&J, and Megadeth are releasing music like their careers depend on it. Obviously, Metallica is not in the same boat, and their creativity bears that out.
In general, I still think Metallica are pretty cool. They do a lot of cool shit, and the set up of the new tour is the shit. Two shows as a package. That's fucking awesome. And the prices seem excellent. I applaud them for that. I still feel like they're the same band as themselves, but their music is missing teeth, and has for a long time. The thing with TBA is that it really proved to be the point of no return, and we all knew it was when it happened.
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Everything said here comes from someone who is, first and foremost, still a Metallica fan and just one of the 100's of opinions here on this subject. I've enjoyed much of the music on the last 3 albums. It's definitely not the second coming of MOP. But, their output the past 14-15 years has been some of the best material they've done since AJFA (in my opinion). That being said, James is a main reason, if not THE reason, why they don't have the bite they used to.
Up until and including the tours for TBA, James was Angry Jaymz who would call out "fuckers" in the crowd for not singing along and whatnot. Load/Reload era was kind of a middle ground where he wasn't quite as angry/aggressive, not as much swearing. And, since St. Anger, we've had Papa Het who likes to ask "Do you feel alive" and say "Metallica loves you" a lot to the Metallica Family. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But, Rehab James just doesn't have the fire of old Jaymz. Then again, he's also 30 years older. Which is also a major impact on his voice, hugely affecting their sound. While I feel bad for him, I'm hoping his divorce may bring back some of his old fire.
With all that being said, what Metallica may or may not lack in their recent studio output (depending on where you sit), they certainly continue to bring it with their live show. Where you have other older bands like KISS playing (possibly lip syncing) virtually the same setlist for the past 20 years, touring with a friggin' painter as an opening act. Metallica is playing 2 nights per city with different sets each night with PANTERA and Wolfie Van Halen opening. I know FFDP is crazy popular, too. I just don't care about them. And, the cost of a ticket to get you through the gate is pretty reasonable. I paid $185/ticket. FOR 2 SHOWS!!! For other acts that size, you're paying more than that for one concert. Now, a lot of people have complained that this isn't a proper "World Tour" because of the lack of shows they've booked. Apparently, this model is something they've discussed going all the way back to St. Anger. Their manager brings it up to the band in Some Kind Of Monster, primarily as a means of supporting James' sobriety. With his recent rehab stint, perhaps they've decided it's finally time.
40 years on and I refuse to say "they're phoning it in"... A new 12-track album coming in four months... A pretty cool tour following shortly thereafter. I'm excited about the new album. Even a lot of the song titles have me pretty psyched.
PS - Tesla has been stuck in 1st gear since Tommy Skeoch left after 2004's Into The Now. All they know how to do now is ballads and mid-tempo "rockers".
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Anthrax have delivered the best late career wins of the big 4 by a long shot, imo.
But one more about Lux AE - I actually really enjoy James vocal on it. Still sounds like him. Older, but great. Kirk sounds fab too. Really enjoyed the solo. The biggest thing that I'd change is the rhythm guitar sound and drum mix. That HUUUUGE, meaty Metallica guitar IS the Metallica sound (since RTL) but it's not here. Now, I've not followed them hard since Reload came out but I think even St Anger had that. Maybe it is the mix, maybe he's using different amps now.
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Got tickets to see them in June at both shows! Haven't had the chance to see them before so this will definitely be a bucket list experience of finally crossing them off my list. The unique setlists thing will be cool as well because that means instead of a 2 hour show there will be like 4 hours of unique songs so hopefully some nice coverage! :metal
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I wonder what the last song is about. "Inamorata" reminds me of two things:
- A brand by Emily Ratasomething
- A mispelling of the italian word "innamorata" which is the female form for being in love (she's in love = è innamorata).
(https://i.discogs.com/_aWhrLEkq-5adHgJ1CZpNfNYAEbERCichWtXnGD3tkw/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:583/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTExNTIx/MjI3LTE1MTc4MDMy/NDItOTA4Ni5qcGVn.jpeg)
That was exactly the first thing i thought of when I read it.
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At least Pat Benatar spelled it right.
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TAC, great post. Expecting Metallica to sound like mid-80s Slayer at this point is ridiculous. They (Het) still write great SONGS and I am very confident there will be some great ones on 72 Seasons.
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On a whim I checked the new tune out. Now I don't like Metallica much at all, and I agree this is kind of generic sounding, but I thought it was pretty good for a bunch of old dudes. Compared to the fairly lifeless album King's X just put out, I thought it was kind of impressive.
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I wonder what the last song is about. "Inamorata" reminds me of two things:
- A brand by Emily Ratasomething
- A mispelling of the italian word "innamorata" which is the female form for being in love (she's in love = è innamorata).
(https://i.discogs.com/_aWhrLEkq-5adHgJ1CZpNfNYAEbERCichWtXnGD3tkw/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:583/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTExNTIx/MjI3LTE1MTc4MDMy/NDItOTA4Ni5qcGVn.jpeg)
That was exactly the first thing i thought of when I read it.
For the record, that was a GREAT album!
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(https://i.discogs.com/_aWhrLEkq-5adHgJ1CZpNfNYAEbERCichWtXnGD3tkw/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:583/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTExNTIx/MjI3LTE1MTc4MDMy/NDItOTA4Ni5qcGVn.jpeg)
That was exactly the first thing i thought of when I read it.
For the record, that was a GREAT album!
Agreed. I'm actually a big fan of this era of hers. I like Gravity's Rainbow even more.
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I wonder what the last song is about. "Inamorata" reminds me of two things:
- A brand by Emily Ratasomething
- A mispelling of the italian word "innamorata" which is the female form for being in love (she's in love = è innamorata).
(https://i.discogs.com/_aWhrLEkq-5adHgJ1CZpNfNYAEbERCichWtXnGD3tkw/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:583/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTExNTIx/MjI3LTE1MTc4MDMy/NDItOTA4Ni5qcGVn.jpeg)
That was exactly the first thing i thought of when I read it.
For the record, that was a GREAT album!
Damn right. Only You and Strawberry Wine are standouts.
And yeah...Gravity's Rainbow as well. Disconnected kicks all kinds of ass!
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Either on purpose, or for whatever reason, it's like they refuse to go back to thrash. I know folks would argue Death Magnetic was that return. But that was one of the most CONTRIVED and fake things I have ever listened to. Their heart wasn't in it. I say all this to say, I firmly believe their hearts were in the style they played on Hardwired and on this new record. But it's not the genre of music they defined. I have a really hard time accepting that. I get they are all rich and not hungry and angry any longer. But that doesn't mean you abandon the music style you defined.
I don't see what's so bewildering about them wanting to make music they're into, rather than getting stuck in a restrictive box. They did three albums in a row to the same formula and then were done with it. I haven't followed Metallica in a while, since they went in musical directions I was no longer interested in, but I would never want them to return to the old style out of some sense of obligation.
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I can't really blame them for going back to what fans want because they've been burnt pretty hard by their fanbase.
I love Load and I like Reload a fair bit as well but they didn't go over well with most fans and 'Alternica' is viewed by many as them selling out, not being 'true' or whatever else lame excuse you want to use. In reality they just tried something different and if you liked it - great, if you didn't - that's cool. St. Anger felt like them trying to connect to a younger audience, I get a strong vibe of the early 00's Nu-metal and while the band had done metal before, this was a bit different for them. Didn't go over well, I mean St. Anger is essentially a meme in itself now, as much as I've tried to enjoy it over the years, it's not great. I like the documentary about them making it, I enjoy the drum sound meme that came from it, but yeah, an experiment to modernize their sound for the Slipknot/Korn/Deftones/System of a Down fans that just didn't work.
Death Magnetic is an album I don't care for much because as others have said, it just didn't feel like their heart was in it. The elements were there but it felt a bit like watching The Lost World after Jurassic Park where it's still the same guy making it and the movie still has the same elements in it, but the heart and soul just feels absent. However, DM did go over pretty well with most fans. The band tried to do something different again with Lou Reed when they made Lulu and people were quite vocal with their hate towards that release. Sure, I had fun at James Hetfield singing about being a table as much as the next guy, but I can at least appreciate a band doing something they feel passionate about even if it's different. Hardwired is an album I haven't quite gotten into yet but it definitely feels closer to DM where they try to give the fans what they want.
At the end of the day these guys are pushing 60 and have a 40 year career of making music. I fully understand why they might be resigned to sticking to what the fans want. I would love for them to make a different album, maybe a Load part 3 but I would be in a minority and you know people would be ready to hate on it. Best case scenario I could think of is if they did a twin album situation where they put out 'the thrash metal album' along side a different album with a whole other vibe. Maybe that could go over better with the community. I would say this new single and Hardwired is pretty much as good as I would expect from them at this age playing the kind of music they did in their 20s. Slayer's no longer around but you can look at Megadeth or Anthrax and you can debate who has aged the best or what not but you can tell neither of these bands are putting out their best stuff anymore.
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So I sat down last night with Mrs. Samsara and we listened again to Lux Aeterna. We wanted to give it a fair listen on a good sound system.
Here was where we were at after talking about it (part of this is about the song, but is mostly about Metallica in general):
1. It sounds like Metallica doing a cover of Motorhead...but a very polished one. Like taking the danger out of the sound and making it nice and polished for radio consumption. It doesn't sound like METALLICA at all.
2. James is, unfortunately, the major issue. I feel for the guy. He's getting older and while he may be as rich as someone is going to get, he is obviously struggling with getting older and mortality. This much is clear from his relapse and then the on-stage sort of breakdown he had earlier this year. But his singing...here's the thing. James' voice, through the Black album was...dangerous. Angry. Intense. These are the words I associate with James Hetfield from 1981-1992. You put on any of those Metallica records from that time period (minus the song Nothing Else Matters) and James always felt like he was going to rip your head off. Even with the more mid-tempo, moody tunes, he was on the edge, and it made Metallica special. He's lost that. Completely. I said the other day the closest I felt he really got to capturing that voice again was "Spit Out the Bone," but it didn't quite get there. To my ears, if Het isn't intense, then it isn't really the right voice for Metallica. And that really pains me to say, because I know he's going through things as a person and that sucks. But he's not a pure singer. He's the frontman for the band that basically started thrash metal. And that's the guy that gave Metallica its edge. And it's gone. Lux Aeterna would have been so much better with James singing gruffer like he used to.
3. Thrash bands, in my view, have a very limited box to work in. EVERY thrash band made their version of the Black album. Megadeth did Countdown, Death Angel did Act III, Testament did The Ritual, etc. The issue is - those bands have all found their way back to thrash, and Metallica, for whatever reason, hasn't. I remember Het (or it could have been Lars) doing an interview about ...And Justice for All, and them saying that there really wasn't any place left to go from an aggressive nature after ...And Justice. And they are right. Justice is a prog-thrash record, and there really hasn't been anything in my mind in the genre that has taken that sound any FURTHER in terms of speed, complexity and intensity with a clean-ish vocal. Not in the thrash sub genre. I mean, Machine Head did The Blackening, but it really just stood on the shoulders of Justice. MAYBE the death metal bands have, but then there's no clean vocal. Bottom line is - I get why Metallica changed their sound with the Black album. They had taken thrash as complex and intense as they could get it, and 30+ years later, no one (IMO) has really taken it further. HOWEVER, those other bands I mentioned all RETURNED to thrash and excelled writing and playing music in that style. Metallica, IMO, has NOT. And that's completely bewildering to me. Metallica is the creator of thrash metal. Did it for 4+ albums. Yes, their fans gobble up everything and smack down people who don't agree it's great. But the truth of the matter is - Metallica has lost their way. Either on purpose, or for whatever reason, it's like they refuse to go back to thrash. I know folks would argue Death Magnetic was that return. But that was one of the most CONTRIVED and fake things I have ever listened to. Their heart wasn't in it. I say all this to say, I firmly believe their hearts were in the style they played on Hardwired and on this new record. But it's not the genre of music they defined. I have a really hard time accepting that. I get they are all rich and not hungry and angry any longer. But that doesn't mean you abandon the music style you defined. It's just a waste...
4. We're happy Metallica is making new music. Regardless of our thoughts on the new song, Metallica doesn't have to put out new music, and they are. And to be frank, I am really excited to hear the album. It's so obviously a concept record from the way James described it. The album cover speaks volumes too. But my hope is that the polish of Lux Aeterna doesn't mar the emotional vibe that is clearly going to be a big part of the new album.
No criticism, because it's a valid point, but I'm kind of surprised this is coming from you. We're not the same as we were when we were 20 (and largely wasted). I know I'm not the same as I was, either in temperament or priorities.
I know it's easy to blame "money!" and "fame!", especially when compared to the other thrash bands, but as a guy that DOESN'T listen to much thrash, I'm far more skeptical of those bands that HAVEN'T changed. I love AC/DC, but to me, now, they are a formula. Angus at 60 in a schoolboy outfit is... hard to digest. I feel the same way, in reverse, about Metallica. I'm waiting, waiting, waiting, for Metallica's... I'm not sure I have an example, but I'd love to hear a layered, textured album using acoustic guitars and SONGS. They haven't changed enough, in some ways. With James' famous trials and tribulations, it's almost dangerous for him to be that angry at this point, and I'd much rather hear where his head is at than to hear him try to recreate where his head was at in 1982.
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Stadler, the difference between Megadeth and Testament compared to AC/DC, is that both Megadeth and Testament..AND Flotsam & Jetsam have release monster albums in the last decade. And by monster, I mean some of their most creative and powerful material ever.
3. Thrash bands, in my view, have a very limited box to work in. EVERY thrash band made their version of the Black album. Megadeth did Countdown, Death Angel did Act III, Testament did The Ritual, etc. The issue is - those bands have all found their way back to thrash, and Metallica, for whatever reason, hasn't. I remember Het (or it could have been Lars) doing an interview about ...And Justice for All, and them saying that there really wasn't any place left to go from an aggressive nature after ...And Justice. And they are right. Justice is a prog-thrash record, and there really hasn't been anything in my mind in the genre that has taken that sound any FURTHER in terms of speed, complexity and intensity with a clean-ish vocal. Not in the thrash sub genre. I mean, Machine Head did The Blackening, but it really just stood on the shoulders of Justice. MAYBE the death metal bands have, but then there's no clean vocal. Bottom line is - I get why Metallica changed their sound with the Black album. They had taken thrash as complex and intense as they could get it, and 30+ years later, no one (IMO) has really taken it further. HOWEVER, those other bands I mentioned all RETURNED to thrash and excelled writing and playing music in that style. Metallica, IMO, has NOT. And that's completely bewildering to me. Metallica is the creator of thrash metal. Did it for 4+ albums. Yes, their fans gobble up everything and smack down people who don't agree it's great. But the truth of the matter is - Metallica has lost their way. Either on purpose, or for whatever reason, it's like they refuse to go back to thrash. I know folks would argue Death Magnetic was that return. But that was one of the most CONTRIVED and fake things I have ever listened to. Their heart wasn't in it. I say all this to say, I firmly believe their hearts were in the style they played on Hardwired and on this new record. But it's not the genre of music they defined. I have a really hard time accepting that. I get they are all rich and not hungry and angry any longer. But that doesn't mean you abandon the music style you defined. It's just a waste...
What made Metallica great in the 80's is that their thrash box was never limited. It's just for some reason, they believed it was, because for me, they were the ones rewriting the limits. And then they pulled back. Hard.
Their true limitless box was what separated them. It's why I never thought much of Death Angel or Testament. They just sounded second rate. Yet somehow, Testament and Megadeth and F&J have all maximized that box, even enhancing it. They have matured, but have not lost their creativity at the same time.
I said this the other day..
You can tell that Testament, F&J, and Megadeth are releasing music like their careers depend on it. Obviously, Metallica is not in the same boat, and their creativity bears that out.
I still enjoy heavy Metallica, even if it lacks some creativity. My guess is if James writes anything in the next year or so, it's going to feel way more genuine and strong.
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As a massive fan of the Load/ReLoad albums (despite coming on board with Justice), I am fully aware that I am in the minority here.
That said, as someone who loves "The Outlaw Torn" and "Bleeding Me" just as much (if not more) as "Harvester of Sorrow" and "Leper Messiah" (that riff!!!!), I have remained pleasantly surprised for the past 20 years.
Death Magnetic is a solid, thoroughly enjoyable listen for me, and I think Hardwired has several standout tracks as well.
Obviously, the band decades removed from their inception, but the musician in me admires the passion and creativity they still manage to summon (albeit, every seven years or so).
At this stage in my life, I am looking to older musicians for inspiration as I begin to navigate my own transition from a hyper-driven, borderline manic young musician to a father/husband/career-centric part-time musician.
As for the new song—I dig it. A lot.
Given the album's length, I assume it's the exception, not the rule, but it has piqued my interest, which is all you can really ask for when it comes to a promotional single.
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Yeah, I get the feeling this song is not a good example of what the rest of the album will sound like. Given the album length, I would be surprised if there's a shorter punchier track. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some good gems here that are more of the 90s style too. Hardwired actually felt like a good mix of the different styles of metallica (minus the nu metal part). I was always a big fan of Halo on Fire for example which wasn't thrashy.
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Yeah, I get the feeling this song is not a good example of what the rest of the album will sound like. Given the album length, I would be surprised if there's a shorter punchier track. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some good gems here that are more of the 90s style too. Hardwired actually felt like a good mix of the different styles of metallica (minus the nu metal part). I was always a big fan of Halo on Fire for example which wasn't thrashy.
Agreed!
Hardwired felt like a mashup of TBA, DM, and a hint of the Load Albums—"Halo On Fire" is def a gem, as is "Spit Out the Bone" (easily the 'heaviest' thing they've written in 30 years)
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As a massive fan of the Load/ReLoad albums (despite coming on board with Justice), I am fully aware that I am in the minority here.
That said, as someone who loves "The Outlaw Torn" and "Bleeding Me" just as much (if not more) as "Harvester of Sorrow" and "Leper Messiah" (that riff!!!!), I have remained pleasantly surprised for the past 20 years.
Death Magnetic is a solid, thoroughly enjoyable listen for me, and I think Hardwired has several standout tracks as well.
Obviously, the band decades removed from their inception, but the musician in me admires the passion and creativity they still manage to summon (albeit, every seven years or so).
At this stage in my life, I am looking to older musicians for inspiration as I begin to navigate my own transition from a hyper-driven, borderline manic young musician to a father/husband/career-centric part-time musician.
As for the new song—I dig it. A lot.
Given the album's length, I assume it's the exception, not the rule, but it has piqued my interest, which is all you can really ask for when it comes to a promotional single.
Add me to the list of people who think "Bleeding Me" is a GREAT song. It doesn't really sound like Metallica to me, but I LOVE the song.
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Bleeding Me is awesome!!!!
It definitely makes my 6 song Load/Reload EP.
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Bleeding Me is awesome!!!!
It definitely makes my 6 song Load/Reload EP.
That EP better include Low Man's Lyric and The Unforgiven II!
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Bleeding Me is awesome!!!!
It definitely makes my 6 song Load/Reload EP.
That EP better include Low Man's Lyric and The Unforgiven II!
Nope. Actually, it's a 5 song EP.
Ain't My Bitch
Bleeding Me
Fuel
Wasting My Hate
The Outlaw Torn
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I imagine the StateOfMercury YT channel has been mentioned before in this thread, but this "What if" video of Lux Aeterna/Kill 'em All is quite brilliant :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qONdZg95Vi8
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Interesting. Don't think that channel has ever been mentioned.
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Interesting. Don't think that channel has ever been mentioned.
Well, there’s a lot of those “what if” videos…I’ve checked out a few over time, I guess there’s only so many you can watch before it gets a bit old. But it’s undeniable they are very well done.
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Interesting. Don't think that channel has ever been mentioned.
Well, there’s a lot of those “what if” videos…I’ve checked out a few over time, I guess there’s only so many you can watch before it gets a bit old. But it’s undeniable they are very well done.
Definitely.
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Bloody hell, that was astonishingly good.
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Shameless self-promotion here. If anyone wants to revisit the back catalogue with me in the lead up to 72 Seasons, come and join me over on my deep dive thread. Just did my first review on Kill ‘Em All, and I’m looking forward to Ride the Lightning this Friday.
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Bloody hell, that was astonishingly good.
Is there one called "What If The Astonishing Hadn't Been a Terrible Slog?"
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Bloody hell, that was astonishingly good.
Is there one called "What If The Astonishing Hadn't Been a Terrible Slog?"
:lol
Nope, sorry, only Metallica...
Among the many in there, a couple of Enter Sandman ones that sound neat (regardless of how sick you are of the song, I mean)
What If Enter Sandman was on Load:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs_c3dc2F74
(some of the little variations and changed accents are kinda cool and it really DOES sound it's from Load)
What if Enter Sandman was on ...And Justice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckbzMKJVUWQ
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What if Enter Sandman was on ...And Justice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckbzMKJVUWQ
More like "Blackened Sandman," but it's about 1000x better than the real thing.
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What if Enter Sandman was on ...And Justice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckbzMKJVUWQ
More like "Blackened Sandman," but it's about 1000x better than the real thing.
:lol
Oh shit, I had to listen after that comment.
So true!
:rollin
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What if Enter Sandman was on ...And Justice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckbzMKJVUWQ
More like "Blackened Sandman," but it's about 1000x better than the real thing.
:lol
Oh shit, I had to listen after that comment.
So true!
:rollin
It is! :) And presumably what he was going for...
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Official video already has 10 million+ views.
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What if Enter Sandman was on ...And Justice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckbzMKJVUWQ
More like "Blackened Sandman," but it's about 1000x better than the real thing.
:lol
Oh shit, I had to listen after that comment.
So true!
:rollin
It is! :) And presumably what he was going for...
Yea, this is great. Just shares it with a load of friends who had similar feelings :tup
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I'm at work and an hour ago I went to walk down the hallway to the bathroom, pull out my phone and scroll through twitter as I'm walking and see Metallica posted that they released some tickets for the show on Friday. Ran back to my desk and scooped up a face value ticket :metal :metal The concert on Friday will also be live streamed on Paramount+ for those back home who have the streaming service. I'm so fucking excited now, also Greta Van Fleet opening :yarr I think the live stream may include their set.
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What if Enter Sandman was on ...And Justice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckbzMKJVUWQ
More like "Blackened Sandman," but it's about 1000x better than the real thing.
Amen.
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Wow those StateOfMercury vids are awesome. I want My Apocalypse with the Justice sound.
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What if Enter Sandman was on ...And Justice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckbzMKJVUWQ
More like "Blackened Sandman," but it's about 1000x better than the real thing.
Really? I know it's overplayed, but I think Enter Sandman is a great song. This version is fun, but not terribly nice to listen to and kind of forgettable.
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What if Enter Sandman was on ...And Justice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckbzMKJVUWQ
More like "Blackened Sandman," but it's about 1000x better than the real thing.
Really? I know it's overplayed, but I think Enter Sandman is a great song. This version is fun, but not terribly nice to listen to and kind of forgettable.
I've never liked Sandman. From the day it was released, I felt like it was "dumbed down" Metallica. Basically a single riff played over and over and over and over, along with some whole note chords and mid-tempo 8th note strumming. I get that it's their most popular song, but it's not for me.
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I was never a huge Enter Sandman fan either. It's fine, but you stack it up to some other songs from even the same album like Sad But True or Wherever I May Roam and it just pales in comparison IMO.
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I've always enjoyed Enter Sandman. Great song IMO.
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Any time anyone bags on Enter Sandman, I put this up: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj3jkl
Metallica on Jools Holland, 2008. The format is that all the bands (usually five) are in a roundtable and Jools moves from band to band. Nine times out of ten, the other bands just sit quietly while the band who's playing, plays. Here, they pan around the room and every other band is dancing, singing along and even, if memory services, playing along. They lit the place up.
"Dumbed down" or not, it moves.
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I still like it because it's one of the only Metallica songs I can play :lol
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Any time anyone bags on Enter Sandman, I put this up: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj3jkl
Metallica on Jools Holland, 2008. The format is that all the bands (usually five) are in a roundtable and Jools moves from band to band. Nine times out of ten, the other bands just sit quietly while the band who's playing, plays. Here, they pan around the room and every other band is dancing, singing along and even, if memory services, playing along. They lit the place up.
"Dumbed down" or not, it moves.
Argumentum ad populum.
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Any time anyone bags on Enter Sandman, I put this up: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj3jkl
Metallica on Jools Holland, 2008. The format is that all the bands (usually five) are in a roundtable and Jools moves from band to band. Nine times out of ten, the other bands just sit quietly while the band who's playing, plays. Here, they pan around the room and every other band is dancing, singing along and even, if memory services, playing along. They lit the place up.
"Dumbed down" or not, it moves.
Argumentum ad populum.
No, it's good because it serves the purpose that art is intended to: communicate and connect between people. VV Brown's music is about as far as you can get from Metallica, and yet she was voicing every word. Somehow, this biker dude from San Francisco and his Danish buddy connected on a visceral level with an English rapper, an English indie singer-songwriter, an Americana singer from Neptune, New Jersey, and a French chanteuse (the other guests on that day, excluding Kings of Leon).
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Any time anyone bags on Enter Sandman, I put this up: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj3jkl
Metallica on Jools Holland, 2008. The format is that all the bands (usually five) are in a roundtable and Jools moves from band to band. Nine times out of ten, the other bands just sit quietly while the band who's playing, plays. Here, they pan around the room and every other band is dancing, singing along and even, if memory services, playing along. They lit the place up.
"Dumbed down" or not, it moves.
I pretty much hate Sandman but that's got a bunch of energy.
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Any time anyone bags on Enter Sandman, I put this up: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj3jkl
Metallica on Jools Holland, 2008. The format is that all the bands (usually five) are in a roundtable and Jools moves from band to band. Nine times out of ten, the other bands just sit quietly while the band who's playing, plays. Here, they pan around the room and every other band is dancing, singing along and even, if memory services, playing along. They lit the place up.
"Dumbed down" or not, it moves.
Argumentum ad populum.
No, it's good because it serves the purpose that art is intended to: communicate and connect between people. VV Brown's music is about as far as you can get from Metallica, and yet she was voicing every word. Somehow, this biker dude from San Francisco and his Danish buddy connected on a visceral level with an English rapper, an English indie singer-songwriter, an Americana singer from Neptune, New Jersey, and a French chanteuse (the other guests on that day, excluding Kings of Leon).
I'm not really sure what point you're making. You said that, whenever someone bags on Sandman, you point to the video of Metallica's performance of the song on some TV show. Consistent with pretty much every TV show ever where a musical group performed a song, the audience was into it. And apparently other artists were on the show and they were also into it. OK... but...??? The popularity and success of the song aren't in dispute, but your point in responding to people bagging on the song seems to be that lots of folks like it. Also, the fact that other artists on the show behaved like they were into it doesn't necessarily mean they actually like the song. They could have been feigning for the cameras. Not saying they were, but it's certainly possible. Heck, if I had been there, I might have acted into it (I don't think it's a BAD song by any means).
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That video doesn't really show the audience being as into it as you remember, Stadler. Couple of shots of an alluring lady and one of a chap but that was it. Could absolutely have been the appallingly low resolution, though. That said, I do honestly remember them going down very well on Jools Holland so the video doesn't quite tally with my memory, either. Also, they skipped the bloody breakdown! :huh:
But Sandman is a perfect pop/rock song. It's got everything: great building intro, iconic main riff, singalong chorus, hummable guitar solo, spoken groove-soaked breakdown and an outro that breaks down as it goes. Would I rank it in a 'tallica top ten? Probably not. But that could well be down to me being 18 when it came out and having heard it billionty one times in my life so far.
Bonus side note: life was never the same a couple of years ago after I found out Jools Holland's new year's eve show (it's a bit of an institution here in Englandshire) doesn't go out live. I mean, I should have realised that years ago but still :'(
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Sandman is the perfect example of the antithesis of AJFA. Take one solid riff and build on it to make the song, instead of having 25 different riffs in one song. Starts with clean guitars, then builds, then the main riff is just a variation of the intro with the tail part, and move it up a step with the pre-chorus and chorus. Simple and effective. When I was a kid I loved it. Obviously, it being played to death has contributed to me not liking it that much anymore. King Nothing is a better version of Enter Sandman too (similar sound and structure) :coolio.
I think it's interesting to think about what if... The band thought Holier than thou should be the 1st single, and management/label went with Sandman. Maybe that song would not have been as huge if it were a later single, or maybe the black album would not have been as big if Holier was the first thing non fans of the band heard...
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Any time anyone bags on Enter Sandman, I put this up: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj3jkl
Metallica on Jools Holland, 2008. The format is that all the bands (usually five) are in a roundtable and Jools moves from band to band. Nine times out of ten, the other bands just sit quietly while the band who's playing, plays. Here, they pan around the room and every other band is dancing, singing along and even, if memory services, playing along. They lit the place up.
"Dumbed down" or not, it moves.
Argumentum ad populum.
No, it's good because it serves the purpose that art is intended to: communicate and connect between people. VV Brown's music is about as far as you can get from Metallica, and yet she was voicing every word. Somehow, this biker dude from San Francisco and his Danish buddy connected on a visceral level with an English rapper, an English indie singer-songwriter, an Americana singer from Neptune, New Jersey, and a French chanteuse (the other guests on that day, excluding Kings of Leon).
I'm not really sure what point you're making. You said that, whenever someone bags on Sandman, you point to the video of Metallica's performance of the song on some TV show. Consistent with pretty much every TV show ever where a musical group performed a song, the audience was into it. And apparently other artists were on the show and they were also into it. OK... but...??? The popularity and success of the song aren't in dispute, but your point in responding to people bagging on the song seems to be that lots of folks like it. Also, the fact that other artists on the show behaved like they were into it doesn't necessarily mean they actually like the song. They could have been feigning for the cameras. Not saying they were, but it's certainly possible. Heck, if I had been there, I might have acted into it (I don't think it's a BAD song by any means).
No, Paul. No. I covered some of this; if you watch Later...with Jools Holland, there are ALWAYS about five acts on, of varying levels of popularity. They've had people who made their first appearance on TV there, as well as artists like Robert Plant and Paul McCartney. As I noted, in watching probably 50 episodes or so, I can count on one hand with fingers left over the number of times the other acts did anything other than sit politely on their drum riser or on stools. In fact, the only other time I saw a reaction like that was to Paul McCartney. The audience here didn't do that with "Cyanide", the other song Metallica played, but when this one started, there was energy and excitement in the room. It was PALPABLE (it should be noted, I saw that performance in real time; it's an hour show with probably eight performances over all).
The point was, and still is, that while everyone's taste is what it is, and I'm not here to change that, the complaints about the song are just that, taste, and the song HAS transcended being "just another Metallica song", simple or not. It's got that X factor that I imagine many artists would kill for, and that's the ability to connect people who maybe don't even want to be connected to. I took from that video that people like VV Brown and Nicole Atkins recognized something special about that band playing that song that wasn't common to every other song either they or the other artists performed.
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That video doesn't really show the audience being as into it as you remember, Stadler. Couple of shots of an alluring lady and one of a chap but that was it. Could absolutely have been the appallingly low resolution, though. That said, I do honestly remember them going down very well on Jools Holland so the video doesn't quite tally with my memory, either. Also, they skipped the bloody breakdown! :huh:
Well, I noted this to PG; I saw the show in real time, so there was the hour build up. Metallica played "Cyanide" (I think) before and it went over... okay. Nicole Atkins (the alluring lady) got polite applause for an average song, as did some of the others. Relative to what came before, that performance was an explosion. It had so much energy compared to what came before... I don't know. Who was it that said "writing about music is like dancing about architecture"? It's a feeling, it's an observation. If others don't feel it, so be it. I will still offer it up for those who aren't familiar with it.
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Of course it's all about tastes, and I think you're making a lot more of the fact that the people in that room on that day got into that performance than is warranted. You also seem to be ascribing special importance to those specific people -- none of whom I've ever heard of -- being into it.
Again, I get that a LOT of people like the song a LOT more than I do. It's a matter of taste. We see it differently, and that's ok.
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Of course it's all about tastes, and I think you're making a lot more of the fact that the people in that room on that day got into that performance than is warranted. You also seem to be ascribing special importance to those specific people -- none of whom I've ever heard of -- being into it.
Again, I get that a LOT of people like the song a LOT more than I do. It's a matter of taste. We see it differently, and that's ok.
Well, to be clear, no special importance to THEM specifically, just that they are diverse. I know for me, more than many here, I love the way music CONNECTS. One of the things I love about Taylor Swift is that she writes songs that people of all ages and genders can get into. That's not something that can be dismissed with argumentum ad populum. There's a specific talent there that not many people ever have, no matter how well they can play their instrument.
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Of course it's all about tastes, and I think you're making a lot more of the fact that the people in that room on that day got into that performance than is warranted. You also seem to be ascribing special importance to those specific people -- none of whom I've ever heard of -- being into it.
Again, I get that a LOT of people like the song a LOT more than I do. It's a matter of taste. We see it differently, and that's ok.
Well, to be clear, no special importance to THEM specifically, just that they are diverse. I know for me, more than many here, I love the way music CONNECTS. One of the things I love about Taylor Swift is that she writes songs that people of all ages and genders can get into. That's not something that can be dismissed with argumentum ad populum. There's a specific talent there that not many people ever have, no matter how well they can play their instrument.
That's all incredibly fair. This song connected with lots of people. It was on their most commercially successful album and one of the most successful albums of all time. I don't think Metallica sold out. I really don't. But they did exactly what they should have done had that been their intent and, to me, it was a huge regression.
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Friendly reminder from LA, this is streaming! I'll be there!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkHWoogUYAE2ATN?format=jpg&name=large)
I found a schedule (in PST):
5:30 Red Carpet Event
6:00 Jimmy Kimmel Intro
6:20 Greta Van Fleet
7:20 Metallica Set 1 (rumored acoustic set)
8:00 WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS (whatever that means, maybe some news about the new album?)
8:10 Metallica Set 2 (rumored electric set)
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Of course it's all about tastes, and I think you're making a lot more of the fact that the people in that room on that day got into that performance than is warranted. You also seem to be ascribing special importance to those specific people -- none of whom I've ever heard of -- being into it.
Again, I get that a LOT of people like the song a LOT more than I do. It's a matter of taste. We see it differently, and that's ok.
Well, to be clear, no special importance to THEM specifically, just that they are diverse. I know for me, more than many here, I love the way music CONNECTS. One of the things I love about Taylor Swift is that she writes songs that people of all ages and genders can get into. That's not something that can be dismissed with argumentum ad populum. There's a specific talent there that not many people ever have, no matter how well they can play their instrument.
That's all incredibly fair. This song connected with lots of people. It was on their most commercially successful album and one of the most successful albums of all time. I don't think Metallica sold out. I really don't. But they did exactly what they should have done had that been their intent and, to me, it was a huge regression.
I agree with this. The Black album is remarkable. It's incredible to me that Metallica got that widespread success at that point. And well deserved. There's not another record like it with that approach and poise.
I don't like it at all anymore, though. I like Load a lot more. And Garage even more than that.
For my taste, Metallica have been giant underachievers after AJFA. Hugely frustrating, given their potential and impact on the scene.
They're not quite alone in this. I felt latter day Slayer was similar with Divine Intervention their last great album. And that annoyed me even more.
Funny, isn't it? I wouldn't have predicted it as a teenager in the late 80s.
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https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2022/microsoft-theater-los-angeles-ca-33bc8cd5.html
@TAC did you see the acoustic set? :coolio
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https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2022/microsoft-theater-los-angeles-ca-33bc8cd5.html
@TAC did you see the acoustic set? :coolio
:omg: :omg: :omg:
Just checked Setlist FM..
I'm on this!!
It's Killing Me certainly isn't top of mind when it comes to UFO covers, but that's what makes it interesting.
Same with Borderline, which is sneaky one of Thin Lizzy's best songs ever.
I'll definitely get that as soon as the recording pops up on Live Metallica.
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I always love when bands pick-up less obvious covers. And even more, if it's a UFO's cover, something from Chapman's era. :heart
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Totally agree. The Chapman Era is way overlooked.
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https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2022/microsoft-theater-los-angeles-ca-33bc8cd5.html
@TAC did you see the acoustic set? :coolio
Was thinking about TAC during this last night.
Thought it was hilarious how Lars messed up the intro to Lux Aeterna the first time playing it live :lol
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https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2022/microsoft-theater-los-angeles-ca-33bc8cd5.html
@TAC did you see the acoustic set? :coolio
Was thinking about TAC during this last night.
Thought it was hilarious how Lars messed up the intro to Lux Aeterna the first time playing it live :lol
Thank you. That actually means a lot, especially today. Trust me on that one.
Marc, I literally just watched one of your videos.
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https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2022/microsoft-theater-los-angeles-ca-33bc8cd5.html
@TAC did you see the acoustic set? :coolio
Was thinking about TAC during this last night.
Thought it was hilarious how Lars messed up the intro to Lux Aeterna the first time playing it live :lol
Thank you. That actually means a lot, especially today. Trust me on that one.
Marc, I literally just watched one of your videos.
I'm bummed I didn't get a full acoustic song, just too many people trying to find their seats around me during that set, but I got lots of clips. I'll be trying to get my full video out today from my hotel because the videos I put up are getting a lot of views. I'm surprised the live stream isn't available, figured you'd be able to watch the youtube stream again. I guess they will put it up for sale.
And here's Metallica - Lux Aeterna LIVE (debut) @ SOLD OUT Microsoft Theater Los Angeles CA 12/16/2022 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxNAAIPebis)
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Marc, you made it to Bravewords!!!
https://bravewords.com/news/metallica-perform-lux-aeterna-live-for-the-first-time-fan-filmed-video-streaming
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Marc, you made it to Bravewords!!!
https://bravewords.com/news/metallica-perform-lux-aeterna-live-for-the-first-time-fan-filmed-video-streaming
Hell yeah dude :metal
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Marc, you made it to Bravewords!!!
https://bravewords.com/news/metallica-perform-lux-aeterna-live-for-the-first-time-fan-filmed-video-streaming
Bravewords, blabbermouth, and loudwire as far as I can tell. My full video is taking forever to upload on this slow hotel internet, but I think it video came out really well and I captured a lot of music. :metal
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I can't believe it hasn't been taken down, honestly.
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Borderline!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTs2jKLPTWw&t=0s
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I can't believe it hasn't been taken down, honestly.
Why would it? Metallica isn't known for taking down, unless it was the actual stream.
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I can't believe it hasn't been taken down, honestly.
Why would it? Metallica isn't known for taking down, unless it was the actual stream.
Oh OK. I think I just assumed they had all fan filmed footage taken down.
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Marc, you made it to Bravewords!!!
https://bravewords.com/news/metallica-perform-lux-aeterna-live-for-the-first-time-fan-filmed-video-streaming
Bravewords, blabbermouth, and loudwire as far as I can tell. My full video is taking forever to upload on this slow hotel internet, but I think it video came out really well and I captured a lot of music. :metal
Congrats! :metal
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Borderline!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTs2jKLPTWw&t=0s
Disapppointingly, not Madonna's Borderline.
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It's Killing Me!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P3Q9D63ZBU
:hefdaddy
Makes you appreciate how sneaky great Phil Mogg was, especially on this chorus.
For those not familiar with the original..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbMBe9S2Dms
Originally on their 1981 album The Wild The Willing And The Innocent
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I appreciate that they wanted to share the song with their fans. I really do, but they didn't do it justice...they just didn't capture the dynamics, the swagger, and tension of UFO. Honestly, if I didn't have a nostalgic history with the original, I probably would have watched Metallica and thought, WTFITS?
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That's fair. Even Metallica's most ardent fans couldn't name a single UFO track. I enjoyed it, but damn, slow down Lars, and James just proved how sneaky tough that chorus and bridge were.
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Great to see them covering Thin Lizzy. Borderline always occurred to me as a song just waiting to be covered by Alice In Chains. But still, Metallica can probably pull it off. :biggrin:
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Great to see them covering Thin Lizzy. Borderline always occurred to me as a song just waiting to be covered by Alice In Chains. But still, Metallica can probably pull it off. :biggrin:
UFO actually covered River Of Deceit and did a pretty good job with it.
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New song sounded damn good live and I think Lars did a fine job.
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Got a 2-night pass in the Snake Pit (!) for their 2024 tour at the Vikings Stadium.
Dropped a stupid amount of money but…I’ve never seen Metallica and, pound for pound, they’ve been my favorite band since friggen Junior High. Also, let’s face it, considering their (and MY) age, I figure this is probably going to be my last-ish chance to see them. The thought of seeing them twice with no repeat songs was also just too much to pass up. YOLO!
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Got a 2-night pass in the Snake Pit (!) for their 2024 tour at the Vikings Stadium.
Dropped a stupid amount of money but…I’ve never seen Metallica and, pound for pound, they’ve been my favorite band since friggen Junior High. Also, let’s face it, considering their (and MY) age, I figure this is probably going to be my last-ish chance to see them. The thought of seeing them twice with no repeat songs was also just too much to pass up. YOLO!
Wow! Good for you! From everything I've heard about the Snake Pit, you should be in for an amazing time. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't jealous. It's just a shame you now have to wait like 20 months for the shows.
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Pro Shot footage of It's Killing Me..
https://bravewords.com/news/metallica-performs-ufo-s-it-s-killing-me-at-helping-hands-2022-concert-pro-shot-video
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Pretty damn good, James sounds killer here.
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I appreciate that they wanted to share the song with their fans. I really do, but they didn't do it justice...they just didn't capture the dynamics, the swagger, and tension of UFO. Honestly, if I didn't have a nostalgic history with the original, I probably would have watched Metallica and thought, WTFITS?
I thought they did a really admirable job of it actually. I do know what you mean about the atmosphere, but that was always going to be impossible to replicate.
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I appreciate that they wanted to share the song with their fans. I really do, but they didn't do it justice...they just didn't capture the dynamics, the swagger, and tension of UFO. Honestly, if I didn't have a nostalgic history with the original, I probably would have watched Metallica and thought, WTFITS?
I thought they did a really admirable job of it actually. I do know what you mean about the atmosphere, but that was always going to be impossible to replicate.
I thought the officially released pro shot version was excellent. It translated much better than the phone bootleg version that was posted first.
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Really? I thought Trujillo making his jokey metal poses, over what should have been a laid back, slightly melancholy bass line, and James's banter showed that they were just going through the motions. Humoring Lars, or some such. Whatever. The original is way, way, better than this performance, and Metallica is way, way better than this performance. See also their cover of Thin Lizzy's Borderline.
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NEW SONG ⚠️ NEW VIDEO ⚠️ SCREAMING SUICIDE
“Listen well, better listen well…”
Watch the Video! https://metallica.lnk.to/ScreamingSuicide
Video Directed by Tim Saccenti
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Gave the new song one listen. Now back to Katatonia new album.
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It was good. Not great, but good.
And, like the last song, this ALSO sounds like a classic NWBHM song that Metallica is covering.
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I found Kirk's playing pretty groovy and fun in this one, but the song as a whole didn't instantly connect on first listen.
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Yawn...
Also, James's 1940s newscaster microphone bothers me WAY more than it should.
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Yawn...
Also, James's 1940s newscaster microphone bothers me WAY more than it should.
I know right.
They sound like Walter And The Cronkites.
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Song is not bad! Not totally crazy about the opening riff....I mean, it's kinda neat, but I tend to prefer more chugga chugga from my Metallica :biggrin: Verses are good, and so are James' vocals.
It has some good energy, overall...I dig it.
Kirk's solos, though...they are so...uninteresting, these days? It's not about technique or anything. It's that they just seem to be "there"
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I likey :metal
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I prefer this to Lux Æterna so far
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I prefer this to Lux Æterna so far
Me too
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NEW SONG ⚠️ NEW VIDEO ⚠️ SCREAMING SUICIDE
“Listen well, better listen well…”
Watch the Video! https://metallica.lnk.to/ScreamingSuicide
Video Directed by Tim Saccenti
I quite enjoy this new one. It has a classic feel to it, and it's something that they could've released in the 90's.
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They're not going to release the entire bloody album track by track again, are they? Still three months to go. Might as well just release the damn thing and get on with it.
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Song is not bad! Not totally crazy about the opening riff....I mean, it's kinda neat, but I tend to prefer more chugga chugga from my Metallica :biggrin: Verses are good, and so are James' vocals.
It has some good energy, overall...I dig it.
Kirk's solos, though...they are so...uninteresting, these days? It's not about technique or anything. It's that they just seem to be "there"
Just these days? :lol
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Spot on, wolfie. And as critical as I am about the black album, his solos were really well composed. I'd even go so far as to say 'iconic' in places. And we all know why that was.
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Decent song. Needs more listens but one of my biggest musical pet peeves is a drummer keeping time on the hihat like Lars does in the beginning.
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Not bad? It's been a long time since I listened to the most recent Metallica albums so I'm enjoying these two tracks so far.
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Decent song. Needs more listens but one of my biggest musical pet peeves is a drummer keeping time on the hihat like Lars does in the beginning.
Well then prepare to be annoyed haha. Lars seems to be all in on hi hat counts for the last few albums. I'd actually bet that the majority of the songs on this album start with drum/guitar hits and hi hat counts between them.
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So... I have a thing; usually I HATE the initial releases, and I've gotten to the point I don't even listen to them because I don't want my actual like to be tainted. But I listened to this and I REALLY dig it. If this is "Metallica, circa 2023" I'm in. That's good stuff.
Now I'm prepared to despise the album. :)
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Song is not bad! Not totally crazy about the opening riff....I mean, it's kinda neat, but I tend to prefer more chugga chugga from my Metallica :biggrin: Verses are good, and so are James' vocals.
It has some good energy, overall...I dig it.
Kirk's solos, though...they are so...uninteresting, these days? It's not about technique or anything. It's that they just seem to be "there"
Just these days? :lol
Fair point :biggrin:
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I don't think I really cared about a single Kirk solo since the 90's.
Bob Rock seemed to know how to bring out the best in Kirk, and now that Lars is producing him it's just "LET IT UP DUDER! THAT SOUNDS TIIIIGHT"
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Not bad? It's been a long time since I listened to the most recent Metallica albums so I'm enjoying these two tracks so far.
Same. I like both tracks. They've got a kinda light vibe about them that feels like they're enjoying themselves.
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I don't think I really cared about a single Kirk solo since the 90's.
Bob Rock seemed to know how to bring out the best in Kirk, and now that Lars is producing him it's just "LET IT UP DUDER! THAT SOUNDS TIIIIGHT"
There was a major improvement in his solos from DM to HTSD - he actually had decent phrasing instead of scratchy sounds smothered in wah pedal. Fidelman must’ve cracked the whip on him a bit.
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I don't think I really cared about a single Kirk solo since the 90's.
Bob Rock seemed to know how to bring out the best in Kirk, and now that Lars is producing him it's just "LET IT UP DUDER! THAT SOUNDS TIIIIGHT"
There was a major improvement in his solos from DM to HTSD - he actually had decent phrasing instead of scratchy sounds smothered in wah pedal. Fidelman must’ve cracked the whip on him a bit.
I like HTSD a good amount, but even on that I can't remember a single solo. They weren't awful, but they were just what I would call place holder solos. Like, when I write a song and know there's a guitar solo, I'll just dick around over it so that it's there and then eventually go back and put a proper solo in its place. Kirk just dicks around and moves on.
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Song is not bad! Not totally crazy about the opening riff....I mean, it's kinda neat, but I tend to prefer more chugga chugga from my Metallica :biggrin: Verses are good, and so are James' vocals.
It has some good energy, overall...I dig it.
Kirk's solos, though...they are so...uninteresting, these days? It's not about technique or anything. It's that they just seem to be "there"
Just these days? :lol
Fair point :biggrin:
I don't think it's all Kirk to be honest. His solo EP was great, and I was just listening to High Plains Drifter. The solo in that is inspired and interesting, at least to my ears. Maybe it's more the direction he's being given. I think it's clear Metallica have become stale and afraid to take risks, ever since Load/Reload/St. Anger. It's James and Lars that want to play it safe.
If anything Kirk's EP shows more of where his creative juices are taking him. For the record, I think the EP is better than anything Metallica have put out since Death Magnetic, not that that is much :lol
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First impression was that it was okay. It didn't hook me as fast as Lux AEterna did.
But after some time and more listens, I like it a lot! More than Lux at this point. I think this one will be killer live. James sounds fucking great! Only complaint is that damn hi-hat is too loud and too often.
And though the mix is easily the best sounding this side of 2000, I still think its neutering the song a bit. Should have more grit or something, can't quite articulate. It's not giving the song its full potential, IMO.
But the songwriting and changes feel natural and developed - there was a clunkiness in the last few albums that I don't see on these first two singles. That makes me excited!
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First impression: Good message. But music sounds like a bunch of old dudes trying to be heavy. What happened to METALlica? If Megadeth, Testament, Death Angel, etc., can all still thrash and sound brutally heavy, why can't Metallica...the band everyone wanted to be like? I just don't get it.
It's not a bad song. Lyrically, I don't think it's that great, but the point it makes is the important thing, and I get it. But musically...it's like they forgot what metal is supposed to be. This is very hard rock. As was the first single. Very polished hard rock.
I know Metallica really hasn't been a thrash band in a long time (RIP 1983-1988). I know they tried it and got a very contrived Death Magnetic back in 2008. But man, Metallica simply has no balls to their music any longer. The first two songs from 72 Seasons are okay. Good, polished, hard rock. That's about it. And for me, that's not Metallica.
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They changed. After over 30 years, it might just be time to accept that.
Edit: Though I get why that might be difficult since Metallica, themselves, have spent over 20 years developing a live set that seems set to try to convince the fans that they're STILL a super heavy thrash band. But they're not.
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They changed. After over 30 years, it might just be time to accept that.
You're assuming I haven't. I absolutely have. But with each record, I keep hoping I'll hear glimmers of what made them great to my ears. "Spit Out the Bone" was one such moment. The only moment, really, on the last record. I'm waiting to hear another one.
All bands change. My fandom these days is not of bands (or in Metallica's case, BRAND), but of records. If it sounds edgy, powerful, etc., I'm in. But this...this is mediocre Metallica at best. Tesla is the same way. Big time fan of their first several records. Then they lost Tommy Skeoch. And ever since, they've sounded like a classic rock band. Pass. But that doesn't mean I stop listening. I absolutely do, and I absolutely critique.
My favorite band of all time is the original lineup of Queensryche, including the much-maligned Hear in the Now Frontier. People hate that record. I really like it. But I'm not going to deadpan to someone "they changed. accept it." If someone digs it, cool. If they don't, whatever. Same here. Glad if folks dig the new Metallica. I think it is pedestrian at best, and not at all like the band I once loved.
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Sounds frustrating.
I wonder if Pantera have any fans that buy and dislike every album because it’s not like their first 4 :lol
Guess not all change is bad.
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Sounds frustrating.
I wonder if Pantera have any fans that buy and dislike every album because it’s not like their first 4 :lol
Guess not all change is bad.
Don't be an ass, Adami. I'm free to express my dislike of Metallica's output just as you are to praise it (or not render an opinion).
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Sounds frustrating.
I wonder if Pantera have any fans that buy and dislike every album because it’s not like their first 4 :lol
Guess not all change is bad.
Don't be an ass, Adami. I'm free to express my dislike of Metallica's output just as you are to praise it (or not render an opinion).
Woah. I wasn’t being rude. I was making a joke about panteras first four albums. Obviously you can like or dislike whatever you happen to. My frustration comment was sincere. Sorry if I came off as sarcastic or belittling. Definitely not my intention. I’m well aware most people don’t love Metallica post 88 and that’s totally cool even if I don’t agree.
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Woah. I wasn’t being rude. I was making a joke about panteras first four albums. Obviously you can like or dislike whatever you happen to. My frustration comment wasn’t sincere. Sorry if I came off as sarcastic or belittling. Definitely not my intention. I’m well aware most people don’t love Metallica post 88 and that’s totally cool even if I don’t agree.
Hard to tell that weren't being sincere. Words on a screen can be difficult to interpret. Apologies for cursing.
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It’s all good. Apologies for coming off as condescending. I generally reserve that for Stadler.
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I dig it - they've put out 2 fun little songs. The middle of Hardwired is a slog for me to get through (Confusion / Manunknind / Here Comes Revenge / Am I Savage / Murder One), so I'm hoping for more consistency this time around. So far, so good.
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I hate when metalheads can communicate and apologize. It so unmetal. Lol
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I dig it - they've put out 2 fun little songs. The middle of Hardwired is a slog for me to get through (Confusion / Manunknind / Here Comes Revenge / Am I Savage / Murder One), so I'm hoping for more consistency this time around. So far, so good.
Same here. But I do love the 2nd half of Am I Savage. That ending kicks a lot of ass.
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I'm actually giving myself a bit of optimism about the new one.
One thought. Quite surprised they've made another really long album. Must be obvious to everyone that they struggle to fill 70+ minutes with good music (and never have managed it, imo). It's a big ask.
If they edited the fuck out of 7/8 tracks and came in at 50 mins or so of great tunes, who'd complain?
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Fun song- still sounds like a bunch of riffs/ideas cobbled together, though. Zero flow.
Whatever happened to Lars’ arrangement magic touch?
Also- the song is BEGGING for a balls to the wall Kirk shred solo alá Kill Em All- ya know- the sort of solo he can do in his sleep. He teases it about three times but never lets it rip. If there was a time to NOT hold back it would certainly be this song.
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New song is fine, but nothing mind blowing.
Definitely like it better than Lux aeterna, although neither song makes me want to the buy the new album.
I bought Hardwired sight unseen and lost interest after maybe two listens. I still thoroughly enjoy Death Magnetic though.
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Yup song is ok, but be careful what you wish for. Bass is much more prominent in this song but the rhythm guitar is pretty neutered.
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I think Metallica has some of the most butthurt fans in general in the metal community, because there's still people carrying some sort of grudge towards the band for doing something different in the 90s. But I also think Metallica is partly to blame because they never put out a great album in the 00's or 10's, in my opinion. You can look at other bands like Iron Maiden for example and while the Blaze era has a similar reputation/reception to the Load/Reload era, Maiden came back strong in the 00's whereas Metallica put out St. Anger - the meme album of all meme albums, Death Magnetic that is compressed to hell and Lulu that is possibly the second most meme album of all meme albums. Hardwired wasn't really a home run either and was a bit bloated, and this new album feels like it might be something similar to that with some great stuff but some underwhelming stuff as well.
This second single felt a bit weak to me. Not really sure why they picked this as a single or even deemed good enough to be on the album, but it is what it is. Best case scenario for this album in my eyes would be a good album with a few great songs but I definitely expect a few low points as well, because that just seems par for the course with the band these days. I'm mostly hyped for the tour and finally getting to see them live, a bucket list band for me for sure.
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I don't hold anything against them for experimenting in their career. I'm just so ridiculously tired of everything pertaining to them. Nothing more. I'm even more tired of being asked "dude, did you hear the new Metallica?!?!" every time the band decides to poke their heads back into the music world. When I say I don't like it, they respond with the level of vehemence one would if I called their mother a whore.
A passing of the proverbial torch has been needed for eons, but to me, it seems they just don't want to let it go.
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I'm just glad they're finally putting out material with Rob Trujillo. Even if it is a decade too late.
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To echo several of you, my biggest issue with the band is their seemingly endless rise in popularity vs their output of the last 20 years. Metallica was the band that got me into metal so I definitely respect their history but they have done extremely little in the last 30 years to warrant sustained popularity.
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Once you have an album go Diamond, you’re pretty much ingrained in the culture of society. I can’t think of a single artist with a Diamond album that couldn’t tour stadiums whenever they want even if they’ve never done anything else.
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To echo several of you, my biggest issue with the band is their seemingly endless rise in popularity vs their output of the last 20 years. Metallica was the band that got me into metal so I definitely respect their history but they have done extremely little in the last 30 years to warrant sustained popularity.
They've become a legacy band. You go see Metallica so you can hear songs from their first 3 albums and/or their 5th album. If they play anything after the Black Album, it's just cause they felt like it.
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Metallica are just one of the biggest bands on the planet and the biggest in the genre. It's no surprise you have gate keepers and butthurters and whatnot. Stranger Things was a good example of this being shown off.
To echo several of you, my biggest issue with the band is their seemingly endless rise in popularity vs their output of the last 20 years. Metallica was the band that got me into metal so I definitely respect their history but they have done extremely little in the last 30 years to warrant sustained popularity.
They've become a legacy band. You go see Metallica so you can hear songs from their first 3 albums and/or their 5th album. If they play anything after the Black Album, it's just cause they felt like it.
You aren't completely wrong, but I wouldn't really call them a legacy band yet. They played almost all of the Hardwired album live for example. I don't think I've seen a single Metallica show that didn't play anything after the Black Album. But where I agree, is simply their lack of new material leads them to fall back to the safety of the old songs when they aren't touring for an album which they've done a bit of in 2021 and 2022. I'd expect when the new album drops, it will be featured heavily in the setlists. But also doing two different sets, there's no doubt it will still be filled with nostalgia songs and likely not so much from stuff post 90s.
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A very fair point. Metallica definitely highlight their new albums when they come out.
But, if I recall correctly, shortly after the new album tour, they go back to playing maybe 1-2 songs from it, and maybe 2 songs between Load/Re-Load, likely no songs from St. Anger unless it's the new acoustic version, and not much from DM.
Granted I'm totally cool with them ignoring DM forever, I just wish they took some more risks live. It feels like they surveyed the fans, found out what will please the most amount of people and just stuck to that. A bit boring, but I guess it works.
That said, as soon as they release any live material, be it on youtube or blu ray, I'm on it ASAP.
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It happens to many bands, just not Metallica where you have classic albums that are eventually distilled down to classic songs and you get the same 3 or 4 songs played from that album, because "it's what the fans want". But if an album becomes a classic to begin with, there's usually more to it than just a few strong singles.
Even though I'm seeing Metallica on both nights when they come here, there's a few songs I would love to hear that I just know they probably won't do. Like Bleeding Me for example. Or Outlaw Torn. Love those songs but realistically if they pull something from Load it's probably gonna be one of the singles.
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I only saw Metallica once (on the ReLoad tour), and they actually played Bleeding Me. That was a pleasant surprise, and by pleasant, I mean awesome. :metal :metal
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Metallica are just one of the biggest bands on the planet and the biggest in the genre. It's no surprise you have gate keepers and butthurters and whatnot. Stranger Things was a good example of this being shown off.
To echo several of you, my biggest issue with the band is their seemingly endless rise in popularity vs their output of the last 20 years. Metallica was the band that got me into metal so I definitely respect their history but they have done extremely little in the last 30 years to warrant sustained popularity.
They've become a legacy band. You go see Metallica so you can hear songs from their first 3 albums and/or their 5th album. If they play anything after the Black Album, it's just cause they felt like it.
You aren't completely wrong, but I wouldn't really call them a legacy band yet. They played almost all of the Hardwired album live for example. I don't think I've seen a single Metallica show that didn't play anything after the Black Album. But where I agree, is simply their lack of new material leads them to fall back to the safety of the old songs when they aren't touring for an album which they've done a bit of in 2021 and 2022. I'd expect when the new album drops, it will be featured heavily in the setlists. But also doing two different sets, there's no doubt it will still be filled with nostalgia songs and likely not so much from stuff post 90s.
This is the time Metallica could have one night be a classic only type of set. While the next night is entirely more recent songs from St. Anger - 72 Seasons.
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I’ve actually been getting an itching to see them again.
I’ve been to 6 Metallica shows.
Master of Puppets tour Dec 1986
Monsters of Rock Summer 1988
Both nights of the famous Seattle Justice shows March 1989
Black Album Tour Pullman Wa (WSU campus) summer 1992
Still Black Album Summer 1994
Next year will be 30 years since I’ve seen Metallica. I suppose I’m overdue, but I’m not sure I can afford it, and I’m worried it will soil my memories.
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I believe single day tickets are for sale if the two day is too much, but I can't see how it will soil your memories. Your memories shouldn't change, you'll just be creating new ones with the current version of the band.
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https://www.metallica.com/news/2023-01-25-72-seasons-global-premiere.html#:~:text=Join%20us%20for%20the%20global,night%20before%20the%20album's%20release.
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Well. No-one told me that Metallica covered Remember Tomorrow. THANKS, guys... :angry:
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Well. No-one told me that Metallica covered Remember Tomorrow. THANKS, guys... :angry:
This was originally on a compilation released in 2008 with other Iron Maiden covers by DT, Avenged Sevenfold, Machinehead, Coheed and Cambria, Trivium, etc... It's a pretty good disc. Can't believe it's been 15 years :|
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Well. No-one told me that Metallica covered Remember Tomorrow. THANKS, guys... :angry:
This was originally on a compilation released in 2008 with other Iron Maiden covers by DT, Avenged Sevenfold, Machinehead, Coheed and Cambria, Trivium, etc... It's a pretty good disc. Can't believe it's been 15 years :|
Yeah, it's been awhile since I listened, but it's a good collection of IM cover songs from some pretty big bands.
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Is that the Maiden Heaven disc that Kerrang or Metal Hammer did? If so, I actually have it somewhere! 😁
(I'm getting old... 😐)
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I’ve actually been getting an itching to see them again.
I’ve been to 6 Metallica shows.
Master of Puppets tour Dec 1986
Monsters of Rock Summer 1988
Both nights of the famous Seattle Justice shows March 1989
Black Album Tour Pullman Wa (WSU campus) summer 1992
Still Black Album Summer 1994
Next year will be 30 years since I’ve seen Metallica. I suppose I’m overdue, but I’m not sure I can afford it, and I’m worried it will soil my memories.
Given the shows you have already seen, I'd feel the same. I'd suggest standing put and watching YouTube on this one. You're already immortalized having been to both those Seattle Justice shows. :metal
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Is that the Maiden Heaven disc that Kerrang or Metal Hammer did? If so, I actually have it somewhere! 😁
(I'm getting old... 😐)
YUP!
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Is that the Maiden Heaven disc that Kerrang or Metal Hammer did? If so, I actually have it somewhere! 😁
(I'm getting old... 😐)
YUP!
Brilliant. 😂
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Looking forward to the shows this year and next. Been a fan since I was a young tot in the mid '90s, and first saw them when I was a teen in 2000. Seen them 9 times since and am surprised at how at almost every show I have exclusive songs that I have yet to hear at another show (listed below).
2000 Summer Sanitarium, MA - Mastertarium medley (which blew me away that night), Turn the Page, Last Caress, So What, Die Die My Darling
2003 Summer Sanitarium, MA - St. Anger, No Remorse
2009 Death Magnetic tour, MA - That Was Just Your Life, Broken Beat and Scarred, Cyanide, ...And Justice For All, All Nightmare Long, Stone Cold Crazy
2012 Orion Festival, Night One (RTL), NJ - The Four Horsemen, Hell and Back, The Call of Ktulu, Escape, Ride the Lightning
2012 Orion Festival, Night Two (TBA), NJ - The Struggle Within, My Friend of Misery, The God That Failed, Of Wolf and Man, Through the Never, Don't Tread On Me, Holier Than Thou
2017 Hardwired tour, NJ - No exclusives, but first time hearing 5 Hardwired songs & Whiplash
2017 Hardwired tour, MA - Motorbreath (the only change between the NJ and MA shows was this one instead of Whiplash... both still great shows)
2019 40th Anniversary Show #1, CA - Orion, Fixxxer, Breadfan, Spit Out the Bone
2019 40th Anniversary Show #2, CA - Dirty Window, Am I Evil? (full version to boot!), Bleeding Me, Wasting My Hate
I'm planning on seeing them 4 times in the next two years (NJ & MA shows 23-24), so hopefully I'll get more one offs (definitely possible with the new album and the no repeat weekends).
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Only seen 'em once but what a show, the Damaged Justice tour.
I listened to Screaming Suicide again and you know what? I like the song quite a bit. I just wish the guitar tone was more lethal.
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My list is similar to Ben's.
June 14, 1986 - Long Beach Arena - Puppets tour (opening for Ozzy)
December 7 & 8, 1988 - Long Beach Arena - Justice tour (Queensryche opened)
September 22, 1989 - Irvine Meadows Amphitheatre - Justice tour (Faith No More opened, but I don't recall arriving in time to see them)
January 7, 1992 - Great Western Forum - Black Album tour (doesn't look like there was an opener)
At one of the December 1988 shows, we were on the floor about halfway back. At the start of Blackened, some clown behind us kept trying to jump on our backs (at least it felt that way). The first couple times it happened, I gave him a dirty look. Next time it happened, I shoved him. Next time, I clocked him in the face. I don't know if I triggered it or if it was going to happen any way, but the next thing I knew, I was on the bottom of a pile of people, and chairs were knocked down. I crawled my way to the aisle and went to check on myself in the restroom before coming back. The rest of the concert went without incident.
On the other night, we got to meet both Metallica and Queensryche backstage because my friend won a radio contest for tickets and backstage passes. They then did a drawing from all the winners, and my friend won a Kirk Hammett autographed guitar.
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My least is way easier: 2011 and 2019.
Big 4 in 2011 with, well, you know the other three bands; at my first Metallica concert I got The Call of Ktulu, overall 5 songs from Ride the Lightning, only one from Death Magnetic, Master of Puppets as second track, one of my personal favorites and relative rarity Damage INC in the encore, and my favorite song, Creeping Death, saved for last. I mean, why even bother going to other shows after this one :lol
In 2019 it was the Hardwired tour, under the pouring rain. Ghost as support.
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Changed the thread title which had not been changed since 2014(!).
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I’m not only gonna post the Metallica shows I’ve seen, but the setlists as well.
January 31st, 2009 at Prudential Center (Newark, NJ)
That Was Just Your Life
The End of the Line
Ride the Lightning
For Whom the Bell Tolls
One
Broken, Beat & Scarred
Cyanide
Sad But True
…And Justice For All
All Nightmare Long
The Day That Never Comes
Master of Puppets
Battery
Nothing Else Matters
Enter Sandman
Blitzkrieg (Blitzkrieg cover)
Hit the Lights
Seek & Destroy
September 14th, 2011 at Yankee Stadium (Bronx, NY)
Creeping Death
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Fuel
Ride the Lightning
Fade to Black
Cyanide
All Nightmare Long
Sad But True
Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
Orion
One
Master of Puppets
Blackened
Nothing Else Matters
Enter Sandman
Overkill (Motörhead cover)
Battery
Seek & Destroy
June 23rd, 2012 at Bader Field (Atlantic City, NJ)
Hit the Lights
Master of Puppets
The Four Horsemen
Sad But True
Hell and Back
The Call of Ktulu
Creeping Death
Escape
Trapped Under Ice
Fade to Black
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Ride the Lightning
Fight Fire With Fire
Nothing Else Matters
Enter Sandman
Battery
One
Seek & Destroy
June 24th, 2012 at Bader Field (Atlantic City, NJ)
Hit the Lights
Master of Puppets
Fuel
For Whom the Bell Tolls
The Shortest Straw
The Struggle Within
My Friend of Misery
The God That Failed
Of Wolf and Man
Nothing Else Matters
Through the Never
Don’t Tread On Me
Wherever I May Roam
The Unforgiven
Holier Than Thou
Sad But True
Enter Sandman
Blackened
One
Seek & Destroy
May 14th, 2017 at MetLife Stadium (East Rutherford, NJ)
Hardwired
Atlas, Rise!
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Fuel
The Unforgiven
Now That We’re Dead
Moth Into Flame
Wherever I May Roam
Halo on Fire
Whiplash
Sad But True
One
Master of Puppets
Fade to Black
Seek & Destroy
Fight Fire With Fire
Nothing Else Matters
Enter Sandman
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I don't have the memory for concerts y'all have. I know I've seen them twice though.
I remember one of the times it was one of those tours with Linkin Park and stuff after St. Anger came out. I got to be back stage and meet them all. Rob and Kirk were super cool. Lars was the most social and kind musician I'd met. I was completely star struck (I was young) and kept talking about Dream Theater covering MP and accidentally asked him to sign my thing twice which he gladly did. And James was.....weird. He came out while we were waiting in a jeweled vest of the American flag and then we were told we had to wait till he ate dinner. It was a while. Then when he came out he just seemed out of it. This was after rehab and stuff, so maybe he was on some meds, but it was just awkward. Nothing rude, just odd.
Was hoping to see them this tour but it's in a different state and sadly I just need to put that money to family things right now.
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I don't have the memory for concerts y'all have. I know I've seen them twice though.
I remember one of the times it was one of those tours with Linkin Park and stuff after St. Anger came out. I got to be back stage and meet them all. Rob and Kirk were super cool. Lars was the most social and kind musician I'd met. I was completely star struck (I was young) and kept talking about Dream Theater covering MP and accidentally asked him to sign my thing twice which he gladly did. And James was.....weird. He came out while we were waiting in a jeweled vest of the American flag and then we were told we had to wait till he ate dinner. It was a while. Then when he came out he just seemed out of it. This was after rehab and stuff, so maybe he was on some meds, but it was just awkward. Nothing rude, just odd.
Was hoping to see them this tour but it's in a different state and sadly I just need to put that money to family things right now.
As for remembering the shows, you can always go to setlist.fm and pop in the band and city or venue and you'll be able to find out the set you saw pretty easily. Also, that's awesome that you got to meet them and it was mostly a good experience.
I've seen Metallica 4 times now, but
May 14th, 2017 at MetLife Stadium (East Rutherford, NJ)
Hardwired
Atlas, Rise!
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Fuel
The Unforgiven
Now That We’re Dead
Moth Into Flame
Wherever I May Roam
Halo on Fire
Whiplash
Sad But True
One
Master of Puppets
Fade to Black
Seek & Destroy
Fight Fire With Fire
Nothing Else Matters
Enter Sandman
this was the first time I saw Metallica so all my other shows were more recent. Not quite as interesting as those who've seen them from the much older shows. Fun fact about my four shows, Holier Than Though was played at 3 of them. According to setlist.fm, it's been played under 100 times.
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Oh I don’t even remember the year I saw them. But it’s all good. My memory is awful in general.
But yea, meeting Metallica was awesome. Haven’t met many bands.
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Oh I don’t even remember the year I saw them. But it’s all good. My memory is awful in general.
You kind of don't need to unless a band happened to play the same venue constantly. I think you could find the show you were looking for with relative ease.
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Oh I don’t even remember the year I saw them. But it’s all good. My memory is awful in general.
So..the memory doesn't remain? :neverusethis:
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Oh I don’t even remember the year I saw them. But it’s all good. My memory is awful in general.
So..the memory doesn't remain? :neverusethis:
:lol
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Oh I don’t even remember the year I saw them. But it’s all good. My memory is awful in general.
You kind of don't need to unless a band happened to play the same venue constantly. I think you could find the show you were looking for with relative ease.
Appreciate the encouragement. Turns out the time I met them was the Summer Sanitarium Tour 2003. Setlist is pretty basic Metallica. But I remember seeing Chester from Linkin Park driving around backstage in a golf cart. And I can't remember who, but one of the other musicians trying to jump over a barrier, tripping and falling and everything thinking it was funny.
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My Metallica shows, all in Vancouver, BC:
March 18, 1985 - they played a sold out show at the New York Theatre, which had a 500-600 capacity. Armored Saint opened.
Dec 19, 1986 - Metal Church opened and due to a power outage their set was disappointingly cut short.
May 31, 1989 - The Cult opened
May 23, 1992 - no opening act
July 17, 1994 - an outdoor show with Suicidal Tendencies and Candlebox on the bill.
May 24, 1997 - Corrosion of Conformity opened
September 4, 1998 - another outdoor show with Jerry Cantrell and Days of the New also on the bill
March 26, 2004 - Godsmack opened
December 2, 2008 - Lamb of God,and the Sword opened
August 17, 2017 - Avenged Sevenfold opened
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I am outrageously envious of those of you who saw any pre-black album shows, I can't begin to tell you. I'd have loved to have seen the Puppets (whether headlining or Ozzy, and I'd have left for Ozzy!) and Justice shows, particularly Puppets. They had that air of danger back then, not to your physical being but the agression of the band, the edginess.
I find Metallica live these days to be... well... I don't want to use this analogy but I'm kind of forcing myself into it. It's like sex with a condom.
Last time I saw them was in 2017 (I think, it was around then) in Birmingham. There was a nice Kirk and Rob homage to Black Sabbath. But Halo on Fire, a good song, outstayed its welcome horribly when all four members drummed on it and the whole thing just felt corporate. Yes, corporate. That's the word. I'm not sure I want that from a Metallica show, and that's too bad, I know, because that's where they are now.
As for the last two singles, Lux Aeterna's pretty good. Suicide not so much. Why does a song need, what is it, three intro riffs? I love Metallica, despite my comments around their current live show, but I think Suicide captures everything that's wrong with their song composition since... St Anger?
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I just remember that I actually had tickets to see Metallica open for Ozzy in the summer of 86. There was a *RUMOR* that Ozzy was experiencing another “VH/Black Sabbath” situation where the opening band was blowing him off the stage so terribly that people were chanting for Metallica during his headlining set.
My friend and I were 16 and HUGE into the new aggressive movement in metal (we were pretty much listening to nothing but the big 4 and anything that was on Metal Blade or Combat records) and Ozzy was in his glam phase and we were thrilled by this rumor. We were all ready to go to the Metallica show and boo Ozzy off the stage.
The show never happened. The official reason was “Ozzy has laryngitis” but we never believed it. It would have been my only opportunity to see Cliff live and I never forgave Ozzy for that.
It was a bit of a consolation that when they finally did make it back to Seattle in December, it was a full headlining set (with Metal Church supporting The Dark) instead of just an opening set.
That was an awesome show.
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The show never happened. The official reason was “Ozzy has laryngitis” but we never believed it. It would have been my only opportunity to see Cliff live and I never forgave Ozzy for that.
All these years later and I'm sitting here feeling absolutely gutted for you.
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Hit the Lights
Master of Puppets
The Shortest straw
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Battery
The Struggle Within
My Friend of Misery
The God That Failed
Of Wolf and Man
Nothing Else Matters
Through the Never
Don’t Tread On Me
Wherever I May Roam
The Unforgiven
Holier Than Thou
Sad But True
Enter Sandman
Fuel
One
Seek & Destroy
Edited to match the setlist I saw in Belgrade back in 2012. To this day, this is my only Metallica show. What a way to go, though, with the entire Black album. :metal
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Ah, we’re doing these, gotcha.
October 23rd, 2010. Burswood Dome, Perth, Western Australia (World Magnetic, Perth show #2)
That Was Just Your Life
Cyanide
Harvester of Sorrow
Disposable Heroes
One
Through the Never
My Apocalypse
Sad But True
No Leaf Clover
Orion
The Day That Never Comes
Master of Puppets
Fight Fire With Fire
Nothing Else Matters
Enter Sandman
Stone Cold Crazy
Whiplash
Seek And Destroy
March 4th, 2013. Claremont Showgrounds, Perth, Western Australia (SoundWave finale)
Hit The Lights
Master of Puppets
Ride The Lightning
Harvester of Sorrow
Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
Through the Never
Of Wolf And Man
Sad But True
Fade to Black
The Memory Remains
One
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Blackened
Nothing Else Matters
Enter Sandman
Creeping Death
Metal Militia
Seek and Destroy
October 17th, 2019. Optus Stadium, Perth, Western Australia (WorldWired Australian Leg)
Cancelled because James went to rehab.
I’ll be seeing them on the following dates of the M72 world tour:
“We are really sorry, we have tried to reschedule the Australian tour on multiple occasions, but unfortunately nothing materialized. We are hopeful that something will work out in 2025.”
Ohh, yeah. I forgot that Metallica isn’t coming back again. Sad reality.
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Four Metallica shows for me so far, all memorable in their own right:
April 20th 2004, Nassau Coliseum- My first Metallica show, my third concert ever and my second proper headliner show ever (my first concert was an Ozzfest). This show was only a few weeks after my second concert ever, Dream Theater at the theater at MSG on the Train of Thought tour. Any DT bootleg fans reading this already knows that the mighty 'Tallica had a hell of a show to follow, but they delivered. Lots of live Metallica staples, but we also got a couple of the non-album songs in No Leaf Clover and I Disappear. My first live Creeping Death was a borderline religious experience. The jewel of the set though (in terms of rarity/cool factor) was getting the first Metal Militia performance since February of 1985 (at least according to setlist.fm).
October 22nd 2004, Continental Airlines Arena- I had to catch a show on the second leg of the Madly in Anger with the World tour after how much I'd enjoyed myself back in April. I was definitely rewarded with some changeups from my first show. King Nothing was and still is a Load favorite, and The God That Failed has always been my top Black Album deep cut, so both of those were a treat. Fight Fire with Fire to close out set 1 and Disposable Heroes to open set 2 was a monster 1-2 punch of underappreciated 80s gems. The two Misfits covers in the encore were fun.
January 31st 2009, Prudential Center- The least memorable of my Metallica shows. Nothing wrong with the performance, just a very vanilla setlist. Getting the full AJFA title track was cool.
May 19th 2017, Gillette Stadium- Also admittedly a straightforward Metallica setlist, this will probably always be my favorite Metallica show though just for my view. My cousin and I had regular GA seats for the show, but I kicked in a few bucks on a charity raffle that Metallica did for their All Within My Hands charity and won an upgrade to the Snakepit, the little GA section inside of the stage. Being close enough to catch a pick from James at the end of the show in a crowd of 60k people will always be an all-time concert highlight for me.
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Never seen Metallica live, but I would like to.
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The three Metallica shows I saw - each one had songs that were rarities (at the time) or that I hadn't previously seen them play.
1998 - Reload Tour (Pecatonica, IL)
The Ecstasy of Gold
Helpless
Master of Puppets
Of Wolf and Man
The Thing That Should Not Be
Fuel
The Memory Remains
Bleeding Me
Bass/Guitar Solos (incl. My Friend of Misery/… more )
Nothing Else Matters
Until It Sleeps
King Nothing (w/ The Outlaw Torn jam)
Wherever I May Roam
One
Fight Fire With Fire
Encore:
Low Man's Lyric
The Four Horsemen (Half; Acoustic)
Motorbreath (Acoustic)
Encore 2:
Sad but True (preceded by Fixxxer jam)
Enter Sandman
Encore 3:
Creeping Death (preceded by The Shortest Straw jam)
January 2000 - M2K Mini Tour
The Ecstasy of Gold
Die, Die My Darling
Fuel
For Whom the Bell Tolls
The Four Horsemen
Whiskey in the Jar
The Memory Remains
No Leaf Clover
Sad but True
Creeping Death
Bleeding Me
Mastertarium
Blackened
Encore:
Nothing Else Matters
King Nothing (Includes an excerpt of The Outlaw Torn)
One
Encore 2:
Turn the Page
Enter Sandman
Encore 3:
Phantom Lord (preceded by Supernaut jam)
Summer Sanitarium 2000 (Part of the Chicago Rock Fest)
The Ecstasy of Gold
Creeping Death
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Seek & Destroy
Fade to Black
Sad but True
Fuel
No Leaf Clover
Mastertarium
Battery
Encore:
Nothing Else Matters
One
Encore 2:
Turn the Page (with Kid Rock)
Enter Sandman
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Fun fact about my 2nd time seeing Metallica... they played at Penn State (my alma mater) so I just had to be there. I had GA floor and it was sold out, in fat, set an attendance record for the arena (where PSU basketball plays and holds concerts). I got a pic at the end of the show. James had like a bucket that he just through handfuls out so my friend and I both got one each. Kirk and Rob tried to do a PSU song and absolutely butchered it with no crowd reaction at all which is a shame because if they could have done it slightly well, I think the arena would have been going wild to sing along.... AND this ended up being a dry concert :lol I was so confused when I couldn't buy a beer inside the venue.
OCT 20 2018
at Bryce Jordan Center, University Park, PA, USA
Hardwired
Atlas, Rise!
Seek & Destroy
Holier Than Thou
Fade to Black
Now That We're Dead
(with extended middle drum solo with all members of the band)
Play Video
Creeping Death
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Halo on Fire
(followed by Kirk & Rob's solos incl. 'The Nittany Lion' & '(Anesthesia) Pulling Teeth')
Hit the Lights
Fuel
Moth Into Flame
Sad but True
One
Master of Puppets
Encore:
Blackened
Nothing Else Matters
Enter Sandman
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I am outrageously envious of those of you who saw any pre-black album shows, I can't begin to tell you. I'd have loved to have seen the Puppets (whether headlining or Ozzy, and I'd have left for Ozzy!) and Justice shows, particularly Puppets. They had that air of danger back then, not to your physical being but the agression of the band, the edginess.
1986 was a great concert year: Rush x2, Judas Priest, Ozzy/Metallica, Queensryche opening for AC/DC and then...Dokken. LOL!
Ozzy on the Bark tour had been my first concert. The Ultimate Sin was a bit of a letdown, and I was kind of pissed at Ozzy for leaving a record store signing before my friends and I made it inside (after standing in line for I don't remember how many hours). My best friend had bought Ride the Lightning while we were still in high school. We had a roughly 45 minute drive to school, he subjected us RTL on the drive. I initially HATED it. After we graduated, I heard Creeping Death somewhere and didn't hate it, so I asked to borrow his cassette. In relatively short order, I went out and bought my own copy of the album. I remember hearing Sanitarium on the radio for the first time while working at a Baskin-Robbins at a local mall. We bought tickets for the Ozzy/Metallica show at Long Beach Arena and were somewhere in the 20-somethingth row on Cliff's side of the stage. We worked our way closer to the stage during Metallica's set, and can distinctly recall ending up somewhere around the 5th row. Just an amazing set that closed with Creeping Death, followed by a TWO song encore of Fade to Black and fucking Whiplash! Ozzy's set lasted no more than 1:10 and was completely anticlimactic. We could hardly believe it when he said, "thankyouiloveyouallgoodnight," and walked off the stage after Secret Loser (before returning for a three song encore). One of the only times back then when I thought the opening band was miles better than the headliner.
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If Darkness Had a Son (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_t53a5Ons0)
I like the melodic intro and the main riff, but otherwise it just trudges on for 6 and a half minutes and bores me to death. Satisfaction this way does not come.
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If Darkness Had a Son (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_t53a5Ons0)
I like the main riff, but otherwise it just trudges on for 6 and a half minutes and bores me to death. Satisfaction this way does not come.
I really liked the verses. The rest wasn't bad but just kind of there. But I dug those verses. Reminded me a lot of what I loved about Load/Reload.
Oddly, I think the main riff in double time or much faster would have worked. It felt like a MUCH slower Shortest Straw riff.
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If Darkness Had a Son (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_t53a5Ons0)
I like the main riff, but otherwise it just trudges on for 6 and a half minutes and bores me to death. Satisfaction this way does not come.
I really liked the verses. The rest wasn't bad but just kind of there. But I dug those verses. Reminded me a lot of what I loved about Load/Reload.
I agree - the lyrics are very much of the Load era and I like seeing James return to that personal style. Musically, it's similar to Are You Dead Yet, with the stomping rhythm. Definitely like the song.
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I am not sure if it's commentary/fan bias that causes me to say this, but I feel like you could have cut a minute or two off the song and it would still be fine. I enjoyed listening to it while working.
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I am not sure if it's commentary/fan bias that causes me to say this, but I feel like you could have cut a minute or two off the song and it would still be fine. I enjoyed listening to it while working.
I agree. This is a fine 4-5 minute song. No need for 7 minutes.
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If it was trimmed a little, I think there's a good song in there. I don't think this needed to be 7 mins though.
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I get a strong Broken, Beat, and Scarred vibe from this one with Load/Reload vocals. Cool song but too long/repetitive
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Song was ok. With a very by-the-numbers Kirk solo.
I’m sure this album will end up being just fine, nothing more.
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Song was fine, nothing special though. I'm kind of getting the feeling this album may not be so strong based on the singles so far. Not that I thought any of the songs were bad, none of them really stand out either.
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more like Mehtallica. I lasted two minutes and was like "yea I got it" and turned it off. Way too repetitive.
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I enjoyed it except for the guitar solo.
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I dug this. "TEMPTATION!"
I agree that the solo did little for me, but I expect that at this point. Kirk Hammett is to me the Anthony Keidis of metal. :)
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I dig the new tune..... catchy.. pleasant
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Gave the song a listen. I enjoyed it. Yeah, didn't care for the solo but that didn't ruin it for me.
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I liked the vibe at the beginning, but the intro got long. When James started with repeating "temptation" like 4x, they just lost me. Respect to those who continue to enjoy Metallica's new music. But man, I just continue to dislike the majority of their output.
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Definitely the best of the 3 new songs. I wish James’ voice had more bite to it. The deterioration is really showing here.
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I lasted two minutes.
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I lasted two minutes.
That's not bad! Did you at least get your wife something nice to make up for it?
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I lasted two minutes.
That's not bad! Did you at least get your wife something nice to make up for it?
Batteries.
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I lasted two minutes.
That's not bad! Did you at least get your wife something nice to make up for it?
Batteries.
(https://media.tenor.com/YBnsbNiMAX8AAAAC/respect.gif)
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A Metallica song with a long drawn out snare prominent intro?! Meh.
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The lyric should have been "REPETITION!" Got bored just shy of the 2:00 mark and started skipping through. Nothing to see here.
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New song is a total slog…
Pro-tip: Speed the song up on YouTube or Spotify to 1.5 speed. HUUUGE improvement.
Try it!
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New song is a total slog…
Pro-tip: Speed the song up on YouTube or Spotify to 1.5 speed. HUUUGE improvement.
Try it!
Woah. While I like the verses as is, the rest of the song is way better at 1.5 speed.
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Song was fine for me. Like the general vibe. Still got fingers and toes crossed that the album delivers more than a couple of just ok tunes.
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I listened to the new song last night.
Not sure what was worse: the awful drum sound or the fact that it is so loud in the mix. Like TAC, I was out after two minutes. Insert joke.
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I also only lasted for the intro. Man, that drum sound is bad.
I'll wait til the album drops.
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I lasted two minutes.
That's not bad! Did you at least get your wife something nice to make up for it?
Batteries.
Did you hand the set of Ds to her and go "BATERRY - AH" like Hetfield for extra points?
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New song is a total slog…
Pro-tip: Speed the song up on YouTube or Spotify to 1.5 speed. HUUUGE improvement.
Try it!
Yeah...MUCH better.
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New song is a total slog…
Pro-tip: Speed the song up on YouTube or Spotify to 1.5 speed. HUUUGE improvement.
Try it!
Yeah...MUCH better.
Strong disagree.
I dig the tune. My first impression was that is was just okay - same as 'Screaming Suicide'. But I think these songs improve with repeated listens.
It's a vibe and as such you build it up a bit. Not unlike 'The Thing That Should Not Be' - which I always thought was a bit of a slog itself. But it has its place.
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I used to not like The Thing that Should Not Be, but I think it's great now and fun to play on drums. It's simple, but I'm a novice. I make fun of Lars a lot, but I mostly play along to Metallica songs.
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I thought it was pretty good. But production wise, I thought Hardwired sounded cool; here they seemed to have went too far with the clicky bass drum and fake snare. Still I prefer this to Death Magnetic style production though.
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(https://dx35vtwkllhj9.cloudfront.net/trafalgarreleasing/project-purplefoot/images/regions/intl/onesheet.jpg)
I got my ticket to this movie. :biggrin:
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This song didn't do anything for me. Just meh. They can't all be winners I guess lol
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(https://dx35vtwkllhj9.cloudfront.net/trafalgarreleasing/project-purplefoot/images/regions/intl/onesheet.jpg)
I got my ticket to this movie. :biggrin:
Yep doing the same!
Regardless the thoughts on the material even just for the experience and considering the album drops the following morning will be fun.
Reckon Lux was tasty but IMO of the pre-release singles If Darkness takes the win \m/
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I’d rank the 3 singles thusly:
Screaming Suicide
Lux Aeterna
If Darkness Had a Son (this one is a slog, one of their worst imo)
Expecting the title and closing tracks to be great.
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I’ve liked Darkness more on repeat listens. I just can’t get into much of Screaming Suicide. Some cool moments but doesn’t connect with me. Lux Aeturna is good even if he’s mispronouncing it.
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I’ve liked Darkness more on repeat listens. I just can’t get into much of Screaming Suicide. Some cool moments but doesn’t connect with me. Lux Aeturna is good even if he’s mispronouncing it.
To me Darkness and Screaming both benefited greatly from repeated listens. I totally understand peoples complaints on the first listen - when expecting old Metallica greatness - but these songs really start to shine on repeated listens. Lux AEterna was great from the start, but a more simple song.
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I’ve liked Darkness more on repeat listens. I just can’t get into much of Screaming Suicide. Some cool moments but doesn’t connect with me. Lux Aeturna is good even if he’s mispronouncing it.
To me Darkness and Screaming both benefited greatly from repeated listens. I totally understand peoples complaints on the first listen - when expecting old Metallica greatness - but these songs really start to shine on repeated listens. Lux AEterna was great from the start, but a more simple song.
My problem is that I have little desire to relisten ATM. I'll just wait till the album comes out. I've lowered my expectations at this point.
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Unrelated two thoughts.
1) I recently found a show they did from 1986. Jason is on bass, but clearly the new guy. HOLY HELL ARE THEY PLAYING FAST. I have been a Metallica fan for like 25 years. I've seen TONS of videos of them, as well as them live, so I'm quite familiar with their live approach. This show just blew me away with how fast and intense everything was. I have no idea how James is able to down pick as fast and perfectly as he was in this show. My arm almost fell off just watching him.
2) I really miss James' old guitars. He still uses a few of the ones I love, but he has so many great explorers from over the years that he never takes out. The deer one, the diamond plated one, the white ones with curse words written on them, etc. I really miss the diversity in guitars he used to have.
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Is there a link you can share?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ESicEzUtqk
Not sure if it'll start at the beginning but if not, just go back to it.
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:lol at the song titles in the comments.
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Yes, they're brilliant!
Thanks, Adami.
Edit: so! Battery is over in about 4m 35s. The published length of the recorded version is 5m 13s :hat
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Thanks for the share, this is great :lol :metal
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That date (9/12/1986) threw me off at first. I thought it was September 12th and I was confused as to why Cliff playing with a pick...and looked like Jason Newsted :lol Then it hit me.
Jesus christ is that fast though. Damage, Inc. is the fastest thing by them I can play, and just hearing it as this speed makes my wrist hurt.
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Amazing stuff, for sure! Thanks for sharing...
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I’ve liked Darkness more on repeat listens. I just can’t get into much of Screaming Suicide. Some cool moments but doesn’t connect with me. Lux Aeturna is good even if he’s mispronouncing it.
To me Darkness and Screaming both benefited greatly from repeated listens. I totally understand peoples complaints on the first listen - when expecting old Metallica greatness - but these songs really start to shine on repeated listens. Lux AEterna was great from the start, but a more simple song.
My problem is that I have little desire to relisten ATM. I'll just wait till the album comes out. I've lowered my expectations at this point.
Yeah, I can understand that. I think part of the problem is that the mix is nice but a bit neutered. This song needs more aggression. But, I bet it will translate really well in a live setting.
Side note; anyone noticing a Ghost influence in this song?
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This is pretty wild, but a smart move since they probably have mucho cash to burn. They clearly want to continue to have control over the end-to-end distribution process for their music.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-acquires-vinyl-pressing-plant-furnace-record-pressing
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In a time when bands struggle to sell 30K units of NEW albums at all, the fact that they sold 91,000 units of Master Of Puppets (a 37-year old catalog album) on vinyl LAST YEAR ALONE is insane!
As for "cash to burn"... The fact that Jason said he was set financially before they even did the Black Album speaks volumes to the amount of money they must have.
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Over on the Metallica subReddit someone was asking about Metallica songs featuring vocals that weren't James.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Metallica/comments/125h4wy/rob_has_some_vocals_on_the_new_album_looking/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button (https://www.reddit.com/r/Metallica/comments/125h4wy/rob_has_some_vocals_on_the_new_album_looking/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Some interesting tidbits came out of the post, but most shocking of all is this Metallica/Swiss Beats/Ja Rule song (yes you read that right).
https://youtu.be/mqM3Z3rWlAI (https://youtu.be/mqM3Z3rWlAI)
Prepare your ears because it's not good. Did any of you know about this? For context, it was apparently created using demos that Metallica recorded at the start of the St Anger sessions, before James went to rehab. According to comments (I don't know how true any of this is) Lars okay'd it when the band was in flux, James was in rehab and he had no idea whether the band were even going to be able to continue.
I find it crazy that I had no clue about this, although I'd want to keep.it under wraps if I were Metallica :lol
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Metallica actually has it catalogued in their official list of songs: https://www.metallica.com/songs/we-did-it-again.html
I recall hearing about way back when, but don't remember anything else about it.
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Over on the Metallica subReddit someone was asking about Metallica songs featuring vocals that weren't James.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Metallica/comments/125h4wy/rob_has_some_vocals_on_the_new_album_looking/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button (https://www.reddit.com/r/Metallica/comments/125h4wy/rob_has_some_vocals_on_the_new_album_looking/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Some interesting tidbits came out of the post, but most shocking of all is this Metallica/Swiss Beats/Ja Rule song (yes you read that right).
https://youtu.be/mqM3Z3rWlAI (https://youtu.be/mqM3Z3rWlAI)
Prepare your ears because it's not good. Did any of you know about this? For context, it was apparently created using demos that Metallica recorded at the start of the St Anger sessions, before James went to rehab. According to comments (I don't know how true any of this is) Lars okay'd it when the band was in flux, James was in rehab and he had no idea whether the band were even going to be able to continue.
I find it crazy that I had no clue about this, although I'd want to keep.it under wraps if I were Metallica :lol
I remember hearing it back then and not liking it. Listening to it now I remember why.
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That date (9/12/1986) threw me off at first. I thought it was September 12th and I was confused as to why Cliff playing with a pick...and looked like Jason Newsted :lol Then it hit me.
Jesus christ is that fast though. Damage, Inc. is the fastest thing by them I can play, and just hearing it as this speed makes my wrist hurt.
I remember reading in a metal magazine way back then about how amped up the first shows with Jason were. Guys were just pouring out rage and pain and aggression.
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Over on the Metallica subReddit someone was asking about Metallica songs featuring vocals that weren't James.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Metallica/comments/125h4wy/rob_has_some_vocals_on_the_new_album_looking/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button (https://www.reddit.com/r/Metallica/comments/125h4wy/rob_has_some_vocals_on_the_new_album_looking/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Some interesting tidbits came out of the post, but most shocking of all is this Metallica/Swiss Beats/Ja Rule song (yes you read that right).
https://youtu.be/mqM3Z3rWlAI (https://youtu.be/mqM3Z3rWlAI)
Prepare your ears because it's not good. Did any of you know about this? For context, it was apparently created using demos that Metallica recorded at the start of the St Anger sessions, before James went to rehab. According to comments (I don't know how true any of this is) Lars okay'd it when the band was in flux, James was in rehab and he had no idea whether the band were even going to be able to continue.
I find it crazy that I had no clue about this, although I'd want to keep.it under wraps if I were Metallica :lol
I remember hearing it back then and not liking it. Listening to it now I remember why.
I listened to it quite a bit back then because I was both into metal and modern rap/r&b. Thought it sounded really weird (the YEAH we did it part isn't even in the same key of the music). Nowadays I just categorize this under bad music.
Anyway, new song just out. Halfway through, not bad. The autotune on James' voice is a bit too obvious for my tastes though.
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New song was okay. I like the chorus and the bridge. The intro and verses are just too....I dunno....pointless? They sound tired and old. There's just so little energy to any of this.
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New song was okay. I like the chorus and the bridge. The intro and verses are just too....I dunno....pointless? They sound tired and old. There's just so little energy to any of this.
I agree with this after listening all the way through. Most of these songs are a pentatonic chug fest and it just feels tired at this point. I thought Hardwired had some good hooks and overall it had quite some variety in arrangements and musical modes, but this just feels like they want to 'rock out like they used to do', coming up with quite uninspired sounding riffs and motifs in the process. We'll see how this plays out, but so far I'm not getting my hopes up.
Looking forward to seeing the band twice in a row nonetheless at the end of April in Amsterdam! :metal
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I enjoyed it. Again, it's a little longer than it needs to be but overall it's a solid song.
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New song is OK. Is it me or do they seem to be channelling a bit more classic metal/NWOBHM than on previous releases? There are moments, specifically on this new song and Lux Æterna, where they err more that way than straight up thrash. Well I hear it, and those times I do, I think I prefer it over the rest of the song.
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This album so far definitely sounds like it's their last throw.
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Well, this is happening
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FseL0mNaEAEI6jh?format=jpg&name=large)
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I thought Ozzy stopped touring?
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I thought Ozzy stopped touring?
I'm sure he has it in him to perform at least one night. And honestly, I think it's a great thing for him to do because it allows Ozzy the chance to relish in what could possibly be his final live performance.
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Certainly going to try for tickets, expensive as they are...
Desert Trip was one of the best concert experiences in my life, so this is a no brainer for me. Main draw is Maiden, Metallica, and Tool, but it's been ages since I've seen AC/DC or GnR and I can't pass up what's likely my final chance to see Ozzy live again.
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I just feel like I'd be miserable at that festival, but it would be incredibly tempting if this was Maiden's only show in the US for this tour.
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I just feel like I'd be miserable at that festival, but it would be incredibly tempting if this was Maiden's only show in the US for this tour.
This is me; and my stepson wants to see Ozzy under the similar rationale.
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I just feel like I'd be miserable at that festival, but it would be incredibly tempting if this was Maiden's only show in the US for this tour.
This is me; and my stepson wants to see Ozzy under the similar rationale.
A guy at my office is planning on going. I think he booked a hotel on Tuesday, which is a good thing because anything anywhere near this place is either sold out or nutso overpriced. Standing or sitting outside in Palm Springs (basically) for however many hours over three days in early October sounds like my worst nightmare (especially when 2 of the 6 bands I either actively dislike or couldn't care less about).
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New song feels like it's not quite there on first listen. Like it doesn't fit together or unfinished? And too long as others have said. Bit odd. I still like the general feel of the singles but this is making me less enthusiastic.
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I just feel like I'd be miserable at that festival, but it would be incredibly tempting if this was Maiden's only show in the US for this tour.
This is me; and my stepson wants to see Ozzy under the similar rationale.
A guy at my office is planning on going. I think he booked a hotel on Tuesday, which is a good thing because anything anywhere near this place is either sold out or nutso overpriced. Standing or sitting outside in Palm Springs (basically) for however many hours over three days in early October sounds like my worst nightmare (especially when 2 of the 6 bands I either actively dislike or couldn't care less about).
Yeah, the logistics kind of suck. I actually went to Joshua Tree national park a couple years ago which is right by coachella. I remember quite well the heat and dryness that it was quite miserable outside my car :lol
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That's an interesting approach to the festival - just pay a few huge headliners a ton of $$$ and don't have any support bands etc. A true nostalgia fest.
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I finally listened to the title track, actually may be my favorite of the 4 new songs :metal
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First reviews of the new album are trickling out for those interested.
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diggin the new tunes..
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First reviews of the new album are trickling out for those interested.
I'm reading a couple of the album reviews now. It seems that the lyrics are even darker and confessional than usual here, considering James' recent divorce and stint in rehab. There's no ballads on the album, it's pretty relentless all the way through. Every second of the music matches the weight of the lyrics.
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The way that flyer is set up, it looks like Maiden is "opening" for GnR? That can't be right. When was the last time Maiden wasn't the headliner? 1983?
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The way that flyer is set up, it looks like Maiden is "opening" for GnR? That can't be right. When was the last time Maiden wasn't the headliner? 1983?
Not sure, but Maiden opening for GNR sounds right to me.
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The way that flyer is set up, it looks like Maiden is "opening" for GnR? That can't be right. When was the last time Maiden wasn't the headliner? 1983?
Not sure, but Maiden opening for GNR sounds right to me.
In America? As much as I prefer Iron Maiden, that's right. Maiden tours arenas with an album, G'n'R tours stadia with no new music in a decade.
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The way that flyer is set up, it looks like Maiden is "opening" for GnR? That can't be right. When was the last time Maiden wasn't the headliner? 1983?
Not sure, but Maiden opening for GNR sounds right to me.
In America? As much as I prefer Iron Maiden, that's right. Maiden tours arenas with an album, G'n'R tours stadia with no new music in a decade.
Yeah, GNR are the bigger band. Also, no one truly is "opening" other than just going on first. I expect full sets from all bands. It'll be like the Motley Crue / Def Leppard tour where while one band went first, they both do their full show. (I haven't read that to be the case, that's just my assumption)
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The way that flyer is set up, it looks like Maiden is "opening" for GnR? That can't be right. When was the last time Maiden wasn't the headliner? 1983?
Ozzfest '05.
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...and that ended just swell. ;D
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...and that ended just swell. ;D
:lol plus Ozzy (and I assume Sharon) will be there too (albeit not the same day, so I kind of doubt they even cross paths)
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And Bruce has history with Axl. Two stadium-sized egos; something will go down at some point.
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In all honesty, I don't think it will. Something tells me both of them sort of mellowed out with age. But we'll see.
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Well I'll be there, so if there's any drama on stage I'll try to catch it on camera :lol
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I have to say that the four new Metallica songs have me extremely disappointed. 7 years between albums, and these are the songs they came up with?
I have the CD preordered from Amazon but I'm strongly thinking of cancelling.
In how many songs can they mention suicide? It's tired. It's like heavier AC/DC at this point.
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I have to say that the four new Metallica songs have me extremely disappointed. 7 years between albums, and these are the songs they came up with?
I have the CD preordered from Amazon but I'm strongly thinking of cancelling.
In how many songs can they mention suicide? It's tired. It's like heavier AC/DC at this point.
I am the exact opposite to you, this is the first time since Load that I am buying a new Metallica album on release day.
A local store in Sydney is even opening at midnight this coming Thursday for the album release.
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I like all the new songs so far. I liked every released track a bit more than the one before it, and the title track certainly tickles ‘that’ Metallica box for me. It goes hard! Love the vocals, it’s crazy he sounds this good at that age. The way James spits out the word ‘inheritance’ feels righteous. The riffage and overall musical material is quite ‘simple’ but for me, they totally make it work.
Same with the other tracks. At this point I’m not expecting any masterpieces, but I’m more than happy to still get new music from these legends. They definitely don’t do it for the money as they could tour on their legacy for (maybe) another decade. They still release new music to keep it fun for themselves and the fans.
Hardwired was a more than okay return to form, I thought, coming from St. Anger and Death Magnetic. Actually, I really liked those albums anyway, but Hardwired was the first time since Garage Inc. that Metallica actually had Metallica production.
This new music seems to continue in that vein. Sure, Metal has evolved far beyond what Metallica can do, but no one does Metallica better than Metallica. And personally, there’s just something about being at a Metallica gig. I really feel a strong sense of community and James always comes across as totally genuine. The band still have so much fun performing, and that’s what counts the most to me.
Yes I know Lars isn’t the greatest drummer to walk the earth. Yes I know Kirk drenches almost all his leads in wah. I don’t care, it’s the good songs and the personality.
No criticisms then? Well, most of the new songs are a bit longer than they need to be. There’s too much obvious auto-tune on the vocals (which was also the case on Hardwired but this practice has been going on since at least the first S&M). The drums sound completely like quantized samples. The guitar solos are licks that Kirk has probably played millions of times already.
That said, I wish Death Magnetic would get a total remix. The Guitar Hero version is less compressed but even then the sounds on that album are all so dry and harsh.
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Forgive me if I said this already. My life is so chaotic that sometimes I can’t remember what I posted a week ago.
But about two or three weeks ago I did some reshuffling on my music player that I play in the car. The upcoming release of the new Metallica album inspired me to load up all of the post-TBA albums. Even though I own all of them, I don’t think there’s a single one that I’ve listened to with any regularity past their first month of release. So I decided to get a little bit more familiar with all that material.
You all are going to hate me for this, but every time I St. Anger song comes on, I find myself really getting into it. That album is just as raw as a root canal and something inside me really digs it.
I will admit, that it might be benefiting from what I call “shuffle exposure”. You would not believe how many albums that benefit from being on shuffle. There are so many albums where they are difficult to listen to from start to finish for an hour. But if you take one track in isolation and bury it in a mix of eclectic variety…and it suddenly just “pops”
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You all are going to hate me for this, but every time I St. Anger song comes on, I find myself really getting into it. That album is just as raw as a root canal and something inside me really digs it.
I will admit, that it might be benefiting from what I call “shuffle exposure”. You would not believe how many albums that benefit from being on shuffle. There are so many albums where they are difficult to listen to from start to finish for an hour. But if you take one track in isolation and bury it in a mix of eclectic variety…and it suddenly just “pops”
While that's one perspective on it, to me that's a bit like watching a movie 5 minutes at the time and spreading it out over a week. Sure you can appreciate the individual pieces and you can find songs you like on an album you don't like, but if you can't sit through the whole thing it still doesn't reflect well on the album as a whole. :P
But yeah my main issue with both St. Anger and Death Magnetic is how they sound. St. Anger with the oil barrel drums and a mix that is designed to give the listener headache, and Death Magnetic just sounds so compressed and flat to me. But yeah there's still some decent songs in there.
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I think it’s baffling that a band like Metallica could release albums that sound that ‘bad’. With St. Anger I get it, it’s part of the intention and appeal. I appreciate the raw aesthetic on a good day.
But Death Magnetic sounds like they didn’t have a clue on how to get good tones. It’s all so boxy and flat. I believe Greg Fidelman was partly responsible, and suddenly on Hardwired he’d learned from his mistakes? It’s almost like they were hesitant to go back to the big Bob Rock-ish production sound.
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I think it’s baffling that a band like Metallica could release albums that sound that ‘bad’. With St. Anger I get it, it’s part of the intention and appeal. I appreciate the raw aesthetic on a good day.
But Death Magnetic sounds like they didn’t have a clue on how to get good tones. It’s all so boxy and flat. I believe Greg Fidelman was partly responsible, and suddenly on Hardwired he’d learned from his mistakes? It’s almost like they were hesitant to go back to the big Bob Rock-ish production sound.
Yeah I agree. Really weird when big bands make albums that just sounds bad from a production perspective. I know the Bob Rock period gets some mixed views but does anything think those albums sounded bad? Forget the 'Oh no they stopped doing thrash' or 'Alternica', those albums sounded great. If the albums they did post-Reload sounded like Black Album/Load/Reload, I would probably like them a lot more honestly.
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I'll have to listen the whole album in its entirety. So far the songs for me are just.... there. I hear them, it's not crap, it's not mindblowing, it's "just" a.... Metallica song. I dunno, tastes and everything, Death Magnetic didn't impress me, but with Hardwired they found a sweet spot for me. Gosh what a pleasant surprise of an album! my gut feelings is that this is gonna be just a collection of the best (least bad?) Metallica-like songs that the band could come up with, something with a couple of gems here and there but forgotten in two months. Hope I'm wrong, with Hardwired as I said they really surprised me and so I hope they have another good to great album in them.
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I think it’s baffling that a band like Metallica could release albums that sound that ‘bad’. With St. Anger I get it, it’s part of the intention and appeal. I appreciate the raw aesthetic on a good day.
But Death Magnetic sounds like they didn’t have a clue on how to get good tones. It’s all so boxy and flat. I believe Greg Fidelman was partly responsible, and suddenly on Hardwired he’d learned from his mistakes? It’s almost like they were hesitant to go back to the big Bob Rock-ish production sound.
It's like some bands forget as they get older what good sound quality is (although I think a big part of it is them getting younger producers who convince them to go with the current trend). Maiden has had major sound issues on their last few albums. All three albums Rush released in the 21st century had some issues with the sound. U2 has had some compressed-to-death mixes this century. The only album VH did this century was mastered super hot. I am sure they would all say, "That is what we wanted it to sound like," but when bands going from having excellent sounding albums to muddy/compressed mixes, it's jarring. Metallica is definitely not alone when it comes to older bands having sound issues they never had in their younger days.
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Calling All Marching Bands! We want YOU to bring your most exciting, unique, and impressive renditions of our music to your next performance.
What’s in it for you? Together with our partners Tama Drums, Sweetwater, KHS America, Zildjian Company, D'Addario and Co., Gator Cases, and Hal Leonard, we’re giving away $150k worth of new musical equipment! So start practicing because the five bands ranging from high school all the way up to the D1 collegiate level that impress our judges and fans the most are about to get hooked up!
Learn more and sign up at metallicamarchingband.com. Time marches on! #metallicamarchingband
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I just noticed that Hardwired is 32 seconds longer than 72 Seasons, yet Hardwired is two CD's and 72 Seasons is only one ???
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Calling All Marching Bands! We want YOU to bring your most exciting, unique, and impressive renditions of our music to your next performance.
What’s in it for you? Together with our partners Tama Drums, Sweetwater, KHS America, Zildjian Company, D'Addario and Co., Gator Cases, and Hal Leonard, we’re giving away $150k worth of new musical equipment! So start practicing because the five bands ranging from high school all the way up to the D1 collegiate level that impress our judges and fans the most are about to get hooked up!
Learn more and sign up at metallicamarchingband.com. Time marches on! #metallicamarchingband
That's pretty cool.
When my eldest was a freshman in high school, her marching band came up with a show based on the music of Journey (she played in the pit). That was pretty sweet. I would imagine that a Metallica show would also be fun.
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Jimmy Kimmel live, Lux Æterna and Holier Than Thou
https://youtu.be/SeKtCya1X2E
https://youtu.be/Gd1uhbliZeg
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Jimmy Kimmel live, Lux Æterna and Holier Than Thou
https://youtu.be/SeKtCya1X2E
https://youtu.be/Gd1uhbliZeg
Holier Than Thou is an odd choice. Curious what tonight will bring. If I were Metallica I'd go back into trolling the fans like they used to. Show up on Kimmel and play Damage Inc or Metal Militia.
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I think they announced performing the entire Master of puppets song tonight. :metal
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Yeah, they also did an interview segment on Monday and it was said they would be doing MoP tonight.
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I have to say that the four new Metallica songs have me extremely disappointed. 7 years between albums, and these are the songs they came up with?
I have the CD preordered from Amazon but I'm strongly thinking of cancelling.
In how many songs can they mention suicide? It's tired. It's like heavier AC/DC at this point.
So I decided to revisit the four songs today in the car. I feel much better about them now. I decided not to cancel my Amazon preorder so I'm looking forward to the album.
7 years between albums is a disgrace though.
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The album has apparently leaked overnight. Have to say, well done to the Metallica machine for managing to keep it under wraps until the day before official release. I'll just wait until tomorrow now when my vinyl will hopefully arrive.
The only track I've not listened to is 72 Seasons but the sense I get, although I ultimately enjoyed the other three tracks, is this album will probably be in the lower half of their discography. But you know, I think I'll be okay with that. I do agree with TAC, though. Seven years between Hardwired and this is once again absurd.
I read metallica.com's interview with James yesterday. They really don't write organically, do they? And I think that is very much reflected in their latter day output. No wonder virtually every song has six intro riffs.
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The marching band that does a rendition of the entire Lulu album should just automatically be handed the money for the effort and comfort.
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Holier Than Thou is an odd choice.
Little message to the YouTubers who think they can do a better solo than Kirk on Lux Aeterna, perhaps?
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I have to say that the four new Metallica songs have me extremely disappointed. 7 years between albums, and these are the songs they came up with?
I have the CD preordered from Amazon but I'm strongly thinking of cancelling.
In how many songs can they mention suicide? It's tired. It's like heavier AC/DC at this point.
So I decided to revisit the four songs today in the car. I feel much better about them now. I decided not to cancel my Amazon preorder so I'm looking forward to the album.
7 years between albums is a disgrace though.
Hardly a disgrace at all, Maiden took 6 years between albums and Priest are currently at 5 years and counting.
Touring for Hardwired 2016-2019, pandemic, James health issues 7 years isn't that long at all.
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I have to say that the four new Metallica songs have me extremely disappointed. 7 years between albums, and these are the songs they came up with?
I have the CD preordered from Amazon but I'm strongly thinking of cancelling.
In how many songs can they mention suicide? It's tired. It's like heavier AC/DC at this point.
So I decided to revisit the four songs today in the car. I feel much better about them now. I decided not to cancel my Amazon preorder so I'm looking forward to the album.
7 years between albums is a disgrace though.
Hardly a disgrace at all, Maiden took 6 years between albums and Priest are currently at 5 years and counting.
Touring for Hardwired 2016-2019, pandemic, James health issues 7 years isn't that long at all.
Agreed. If they were completely stagnant for the last 7 years I could understand, but touring is very important for them, and they were out for Hardwired for a while. They also put out S&M2, the vinyl club stuff, had the 40th anniversary... on top of a rehab stint and a yearlong+ shutdown (during which they put out Blackened 2020, and have a couple socially distant events like Helping Hands and the Drive In concert.) They just don't put out new albums very fast. Once they start to write, which happened after Blackened 2020, it takes about two years to get all the songs together for them. Plus recording and post-production. This is typical wait since Reload (averaging 6.5 years).
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My album review:
https://www.sonicperspectives.com/album-reviews/metallica-72-seasons/
I hope you like it.
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My album review:
https://lotsofmuzik.com/metallica-72-seasons-album-breakdown-and-review-by-jorge-pozo/
I hope you like it.
Great stuff, as always.
One thing I've noticed in most of the review I've read (yours included) are the numerous mentions of the 'Load-era.'
This perplexes me a bit, as the 4 singles don't sound at all like anything from that era (at least to me). In fact, I'd say that everything I've heard is a cross between DM and HTSD.
Now, as quite possibly the forum's biggest fan of the Load-era, I'm hopeful that there will be a bit more sonic variety than what's represented in the 4 singles, but despite the references, I feel like perhaps my assessment of the band's sound during the '90s is simply not in line with the majority of listeners.
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7 years between albums is a disgrace though.
*cough* PORCUPINE TREE *cough*
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7 years between albums is a disgrace though.
*cough* PORCUPINE TREE *cough*
*cough* EXTREME *cough*
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7 years between albums is a disgrace though.
*cough* PORCUPINE TREE *cough*
*cough* Tool *cough*
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7 years between albums is a disgrace though.
*cough* PORCUPINE TREE *cough*
*cough* THE OFFSPRING *cough*
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7 years between albums is a disgrace though.
*cough* PORCUPINE TREE *cough*
*cough* THE OFFSPRING *cough*
*cough* ROGER WATERS *cough*
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7 years between albums is a disgrace though.
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard released 18 albums from 2015 - 2022, just saying.
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My album review:
https://lotsofmuzik.com/metallica-72-seasons-album-breakdown-and-review-by-jorge-pozo/
I hope you like it.
Great stuff, as always.
One thing I've noticed in most of the review I've read (yours included) are the numerous mentions of the 'Load-era.'
This perplexes me a bit, as the 4 singles don't sound at all like anything from that era (at least to me). In fact, I'd say that everything I've heard is a cross between DM and HTSD.
Now, as quite possibly the forum's biggest fan of the Load-era, I'm hopeful that there will be a bit more sonic variety than what's represented in the 4 singles, but despite the references, I feel like perhaps my assessment of the band's sound during the '90s is simply not in line with the majority of listeners.
Thank you, I just deleted the review as it was picked up by Sonic Perspectives. The new link is here:
https://www.sonicperspectives.com/album-reviews/metallica-72-seasons/
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I just returned home from the 72 Seasons global premiere. The album is at least on par with Hardwired, and I think the final 3 songs, Too Far Gone?, Room of Mirrors and Inamorata are great! For those who hated If Darkness Had a Son, rest assured, I think that is the worst song in the album! That being said, it got a good groove.
On a side note, Too Far Gone? sounds a bit unlike a typical Metallica song, and I thought it could very easily be one of Dream Theater's songs from their latest two albums. Either that, or I can totally picture James LaBrie singing it.
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My kid is ill and unable to sleep, so I guess I'm doing my first listen now at 1am :lol
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I'll probably give it a few more listens but this album is a chore to get through. Just not much of a fan, too many songs and more of the same 'modern style Metallica' which I really don't like that much. It does occasionally work but most of it falls flat for me.
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My kid is ill and unable to sleep, so I guess I'm doing my first listen now at 1am :lol
Oh that's too bad. Hope he feels better tomorrow.
According to The Realm, it should put him to sleep. :lol
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I'll probably give it a few more listens but this album is a chore to get through. Just not much of a fan, too many songs and more of the same 'modern style Metallica' which I really don't like that much. It does occasionally work but most of it falls flat for me.
Pretty spot on from what I've heard so far. The only single that did anything for me was Lux Æterna, and I really quite enjoy that one. So far I'm up to You Must Burn! and I'm waiting and hoping for something that will surprise me.
My kid is ill and unable to sleep, so I guess I'm doing my first listen now at 1am :lol
Oh that's too bad. Hope he feels better tomorrow.
According to The Realm, it should put him to sleep. :lol
Yea he's pretty much fine but possibly a bit of an ear infection coming on. He can't seem to sleep for longer than like an hour tonight. He's asleep now after being awake for nearly three hours.
I won't finish this album tonight but I'll at least spin a few more songs.
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Yea he's pretty much fine but possibly a bit of an ear infection coming on. He can't seem to sleep for longer than like an hour tonight. He's asleep now after being awake for nearly three hours.
When my oldest was up during the night, I'd get up with him and put in the LSFNY DVD.
My younger guy didn't really get up in the middle of the night, but I used to put him down to the LAB DVD.
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Also during this most disgraceful period Metallica also bought a record pressing plant in Virginia USA.
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Songs are too long, but I say that about every new release. Last few have some nice riffs, definitely could make a killer best of out of DM/HW/72. Can’t wait to see them in *checks watch* August 2024 ugh.
Sounds the most natural of theirs for this century, glad they’re making music again and not trying too hard to be a certain sound.
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For the most part this record is pretty boring and a chore to get through, but boy does it end on a high note. Inamorata is still a bit too long at 11 minutes, but it's a great example of what Metallica are still capable of when they get properly inspired by one central idea. Probably their best song since the 90's and likely would've made some top 50 lists, including mine.
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Not heard the new record yet. Will do in the next hour or so.
Was really impressed watching those Jimmy Kimmel performances, though. You know how there was a lot of "Lars' drums must be super processed" when Lux came out? Well, he did great, I thought. Respect.
I'm really not a huge 'Tallifanboy these days but the whole band were really great, imo.
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Yea he's pretty much fine but possibly a bit of an ear infection coming on. He can't seem to sleep for longer than like an hour tonight. He's asleep now after being awake for nearly three hours.
When my oldest was up during the night, I'd get up with him and put in the LSFNY DVD.
My younger guy didn't really get up in the middle of the night, but I used to put him down to the LAB DVD.
That sounds great! I don't have either shows on DVD, but I'm sure I could stream them somewhere. I think my boy would be watching thinking "so when are this band going to do a Disney song?!" :lol
Just finished up the album. It was fine, and about what I expected. Luoto, I agree that it is a chore to get through at times, and certainly too long. I also agree the Inamorata is a highlight, and the only song that seemed to go anywhere interesting.
There were a few moments in Room of Mirrors that stuck out and sounded good, and as I mentioned earlier, I like Lux Æterna. It's a straightforward rocker, but I like the NWOBHM vibe it has, especially in the Diamond Head-esque vocal delivery. Outside of that, the rest of the album felt too similar and nothing stood out on first listen.
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Not heard the new record yet. Will do in the next hour or so.
Was really impressed watching those Jimmy Kimmel performances, though. You know how there was a lot of "Lars' drums must be super processed" when Lux came out? Well, he did great, I thought. Respect.
I'm really not a huge 'Tallifanboy these days but the whole band were really great, imo.
I agree with this in the way that the band is still awesome live. The Kimmel stuff was great. I also don’t get the hate Lars gets for his drumming. I mean the guy isn’t a metronome but he always puts in the effort and the live performances are always really tight sounding to my ears.
Just a shame the new album isn’t doing it for me…
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Lars IMO is a really good drummer who gets a lot of undeserved criticism.
He's been Metallica's 'whipping boy' for many years now, again for the most part not warranted.
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The Good
-The faster/more uptempo songs work. Songs like “Screaming Suicide” and “Too Far Gone” prove ‘tallica can still rock it with the best of them. “Room of Mirrors” is quite possibly their best straight up rocker since Load/Reload. If all the songs had this energy, 72 Seasons would be an album of the year contender
-Lyrics/vocals; James pulls out all the stops- obviously his voice has gotten thinner with age but he’s making the absolute most of it, and does an awesome job working within his limitations.
-Lars; what can one say? At 59 the guy can still go. Great performance throughout.
The Bad
-The slower songs just don’t work. Sluggish, plodding, and just overbearing. About half the songs are instantly made better by speeding them up to 1.25-1.5 speed. “If Darkness Had a Son” is actually amazing at 1.5 speed. Clearly, faster = better with Metallica in its current form. So many songs are painfully close to greatness (“Inamorata”). They simply needed to step on the gas pedal.
-This has been discussed to death but all of Kirk’s guitar solos sound like Take 1-2 and it’s the first time he’s heard the song before. I understand this is exactly what he’s going for but he simply doesn’t have the chops or fretboard knowledge to come up with a memorable or compelling solo under this context.
-Like most modern metal albums it’s just way too damn long. Clocking in at over an hour and fifteen minutes it’s about a half hour too long. Give me 8-9 of your best cuts and scrap the rest
-Many songs still feel like a hodgepodge of riffs stuck together. This has been a major issue with them since Death Magnetic. Whatever magic touch Lars had for arrangement seems to be gone.
The Ugly
-The production sucks. I know, par for the course for Metallica here. Too mid range heavy, crap drum sounds, and too much reverb drenched over everything. Would benefit greatly from a tighter/drier sound.
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Album thoughts:
The vibe is great. Natural and groovy. Feels like they're in a room jamming together. They don't sound like they're playing to a click. The whole vibe is one I really like. Reminds me of Garage or Load era.
The production is fine for me. Not as thick and classic as I'd like but fine. Nice to hear the bass.
Vocals are a real highlight. James sounds fantastic. There are a couple of vocal harmony moments (I guess with Rob) that are cool too.
Lyrics are just "there" and don't move me at all, but don't make me wince either.
Kirk is such a great player. Love his sound and touch, but he plays *very* simple, repeated patterns most of the time. When he almost shreds out a couple of times it's great but feels quite restrained. It's weird.
As everyone says, the song-writing is where it suffers. Too long, parts often don't flow well, too mid-paced, too samey. If they'd had an outsider come in and push it about, tweak, re-arrange, trim, this record could have been a tight 50 minute chunk of greatness.
I don't get how these decisions get made. Which middle of the road track could they not bear to lose and why?
In summary, feels like the best original Metallica since Load. I'll probably stick it on in the background when I'm working for a while and see how it settles.
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In regards to the length of the albums they've released in the last 20 years (St. Anger included), I wonder if it's because they have such huge gaps between albums they feel they owe it the fans to at least give them a lot of music? I dunno, but could be that.
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Another album that has exceeded expectations. VERY good! Perfect sonic values. These guys still have the "X" factor.
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Such varying reviews here!
Bought the album on iTunes this morning. Will listen to it at some point maybe today or this weekend.
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Coming towards the end of my first listen. Truth is, I can barely tell where one song ends and another begins :sad: The vast majority of it is mono-paced and lacking dynamism.
Still, if you loved Hardwired, you'll probably love this because it feels like the majority of these songs could have been outtakes from the second half of that album.
I hope it grows.
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My initial reaction after one listen is this is a very workmanlike album - nothing really stood out as either really good or bad, and if I'm being honest it didn't really hold my attention fully. Hardwired I thought was their best since The Black Album, this one on first listen reminds me more of Death Magnetic, which was fine if a little unengaging.
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I just gave it two solid listens.
As others have pointed out, many songs are a bit longer than they needed to be. But overall, I think it kicks ass. Great vocals by James, he sounds weathered in the high register but it only makes him sound more real. His mid and low register is as commanding as it's ever been. He really gives it his absolute all. I figure the recorded takes are all post-rehab.
Lol at the remark that these Kirk solos sound like take 1 or 2 without even knowing the songs he's playing over. I honestly believe that could be quite close to the truth. He doesn't often break out of the tried-and-true pentatonic blues runs, but when he does and goes with a little theme, it's great.
Not too bad overall though. Sonically it's fine for me as well. I don't know if I like it better than Hardwired, but it's certainly more focused than Death Magnetic. I was just listening to that album a few days ago and was caught off guard by how aimless some of the stuff on that record sounded.
I would've liked a ballad, though. But that's just me I guess. "You Must Burn!" is my least favorite so far I think. I was really excited for a Sad But True style track, but this track felt very underwhelming. Dream No More does that approach much better IMO.
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I've already listen to 72 Seasons about 3 times now and I think it seems like a mix of Load/DM/HW without the variety of Load nor the more prog edge of DM nor the call backs from earlier Metallica of HW... and it's a good thing, since this makes this album different from those others.
I would give the songs roughly these references:
72 Seasons, Chasing Light, Too Far Gone - DM;
Shadows Follow, If Darkness Had a Son, Room of Mirrors (fastest song in the album) - HW;
Screaming Suicide and Lux Aeterna - NWOBHM;
Sleepwalk My Life Away (great bass groove in the intro), You Must Burn, Crown of Barbed Wire (another cool intro!) and Inamorata - Heavier side of Load, but it's not like ReLoad.
Since it's a bit more groove oriented, this album is more kind of a grower. But I already can tell that the songwriting is more consistent than on HW.
And... say what you will, but Kirk is really good on this album, the MVP, no doubt.
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My initial reaction after one listen is this is a very workmanlike album - nothing really stood out as either really good or bad,
I would say in general I agree with this after one listen. I'll give it some more time and hope something jumps out.
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My initial reaction after one listen is this is a very workmanlike album - nothing really stood out as either really good or bad,
I would say in general I agree with this after one listen. I'll give it some more time and hope something jumps out.
That's basically how I felt with the singles so I wouldn't be surprised if that's how the album plays out for me... and so far as I've been listening, that's definitely how I feel.
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I’m liking this album a lot and will try to post more about it on Tuesday. Three songs in particular stood out as great to me.
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waiting on my CD copy.... I was fortunate enough to spend time with them from KTA to Black., I could tell stories for some time,very fond of Lars and all of them. not a fan of all their stuff but so many amazing songs always woven in... I think the new cd is really satisfying,
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I'm also liking this album a lot, surprisingly, as I wasn't too excited with the singles. It doesn't have a lot of diversity, but its consistency and being kind of a middle ground between Load and DM are really pleasing me.
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I'm not the biggest Metallica fan in the world by any stretch, but I really enjoyed this one. Not sure where it would rank, but I didn't hear any obvious groaners on it. It was a fun listen.
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I really like this album, and there are only a few songs that I haven't really gotten into yet. James sounds fantastic and there are great riffs all over the place. Initial favorites are Shadows Follow, Lux Aeterna, Crown of Barbed Wire, Chasing Light, If Darkness Had a Son and Inamorata.
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I have to say I'm fairly surprised by the number of positive reactions to the album here...wish I could say the same, but that's the beauty of music and tastes ;)
Only one listen in, but for now I am very disappointed. For context, it's not like by now I have some unrealistic expectations for a Metallica album, but I had greatly enjoyed Hardwired, from the very start...and this one seems a big step down.
Focusing on the material other than the singles that we already know, it feels to me there's very few memorable moments in here. Shadows Follow is pretty cool and its chorus caught my attention, for sure. Chasing Light has some spark, and Too Far Gone?/Room of Mirrors make for a more lively late- album stretch. The long closer has interesting ideas, especially in the second half.
But other than that there's so much stuff that's just...plodding? Many riffs that feel like what a band would use to start warming up in rehearsal. And just how many of those bass drum-accented-power chords breaks and snare rolls from Lars? :biggrin:
Papa Het puts in a reasonably good performance (is it me or he sounds angrier than in HTSD?). As for Kirk, I'm not quite sure what to say. I know it's nothing new but, more than ever before, it seems to me he's not even trying. Basically every solo is the same thing, just thrown in there for the sake of having a solo. Based on what he said recently, I assume he's just not "free" to do different things as there's very tight guidance from Hetfield and Ulrich. Otherwise I can't quite comprehend why his playing would be so uninspired/uninspiring. Not a matter of technical skills or anything...just the lack of anything melodically interesting.
Anyway...I'll be giving this more time, as Metallica will always be a "first love" and I hope the record grows a bit on me.
Still, if you loved Hardwired, you'll probably love this because it feels like the majority of these songs could have been outtakes from the second half of that album.
I don't disagree with the second half of the statement but, at least in my case, I really like Hardwired despite most of its second half :biggrin:
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The Ugly
-The production sucks. I know, par for the course for Metallica here. Too mid range heavy, crap drum sounds, and too much reverb drenched over everything. Would benefit greatly from a tighter/drier sound.
Perfect sonic values.
Which one is it dammnit?? I NEED TO KNOW!
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The Ugly
-The production sucks. I know, par for the course for Metallica here. Too mid range heavy, crap drum sounds, and too much reverb drenched over everything. Would benefit greatly from a tighter/drier sound.
Perfect sonic values.
Which one is it dammnit?? I NEED TO KNOW!
:lol
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I'm on my first listen and to me this definitely feels less inspired compared to Hardwired. Just endless amounts of the worst modern Metallica bad habits. Shame, I actually really like Hardwired. That album has these bad habits as well, but at least there was some melody and variety in there.
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The Ugly
-The production sucks. I know, par for the course for Metallica here. Too mid range heavy, crap drum sounds, and too much reverb drenched over everything. Would benefit greatly from a tighter/drier sound.
Perfect sonic values.
Which one is it dammnit?? I NEED TO KNOW!
:lol
On my headphones it sounds fantastic. Best bass sound ever on a Metallica album, gotta be good for Rob.
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Just endless amounts of the worst modern Metallica bad habits.
What is a modern Metallica bad habit?
As for Kirk, I'm not quite sure what to say. I know it's nothing new but, more than ever before, it seems to me he's not even trying. Basically every solo is the same thing, just thrown in there for the sake of having a solo. Based on what he said recently, I assume he's just not "free" to do different things as there's very tight guidance from Hetfield and Ulrich. Otherwise I can't quite comprehend why his playing would be so uninspired/uninspiring. Not a matter of technical skills or anything...just the lack of anything melodically interesting.
I didn't think the solos are that bad.
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Kirk gets unfairly slated, and it's clear that he's just not given the freedom to play what he wants. His Portals EP really showed what he wants to be playing in 2023. Seriously, the solo in High Plains Drifter is better than the majority of his Metallica solos, from any era (or at least to me it is).
I can only assume, you've all heard it. If not, do yourself favour...
https://open.spotify.com/track/4Eya9E3OOY9QCec2ssaG6T?si=CRgWhEgJQPyatuZgujM6_A&dd=1 (https://open.spotify.com/track/4Eya9E3OOY9QCec2ssaG6T?si=CRgWhEgJQPyatuZgujM6_A&dd=1)
It is quite short and sweet, but I love it.
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As for Kirk, I'm not quite sure what to say. I know it's nothing new but, more than ever before, it seems to me he's not even trying. Basically every solo is the same thing, just thrown in there for the sake of having a solo. Based on what he said recently, I assume he's just not "free" to do different things as there's very tight guidance from Hetfield and Ulrich. Otherwise I can't quite comprehend why his playing would be so uninspired/uninspiring. Not a matter of technical skills or anything...just the lack of anything melodically interesting.
I didn't think the solos are that bad.
I don't know...you are right, they are not inherently "bad", as in unpleasant or off-key or whatever...they just sound even more unremarkable than usual ;) it's not even something I pay super-close attention to, and yet there were a few times where I swear I'd heard that same lick three or four times before in the album. Anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm piling on, since it's almost become a typical thing to do with Kirk. Plus, it's not really the main reason for my disappointment in the album (so far, at least). It's the songwriting that, for the most part, falls flat for me this time around. Again, I hope it grows...
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Some people are saying Kirk is the MVP of the album. I just can't wrap my head around that at all.
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Just endless amounts of the worst modern Metallica bad habits.
What is a modern Metallica bad habit?
I don't have the perfect vocabulary to explain it, but I'm thinking of the constant pounding hits the band does all together, Lars beating on the snare for fills, Kirk's solos being the same non-melodic pentatonic ripping, too many cycles of verses, the riffs being played in similar positions which makes them sound very similar to one another... That kind of stuff.
I realise I'm sounding quite negative here and I really don't mean to, but I'm just feeling a noticeable difference compared to Hardwired which I thought was a surprisingly vigorous album even though it also contained these "bad habits".
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Just endless amounts of the worst modern Metallica bad habits.
What is a modern Metallica bad habit?
I don't have the perfect vocabulary to explain it, but I'm thinking of the constant pounding hits the band does all together, Lars beating on the snare for fills, Kirk's solos being the same non-melodic pentatonic ripping, too many cycles of verses, the riffs being played in similar positions which makes them sound very similar to one another... That kind of stuff.
I realise I'm sounding quite negative here and I really don't mean to, but I'm just feeling a noticeable difference compared to Hardwired which I thought was a surprisingly vigorous album even though it also contained these "bad habits".
I don't know what it is for me, but after two listens to the album today, i feel like these songs don't stand out. THey all seem so similar to me. I obviously need more listens, but I don't remember having that issue at all with Hardwired. Hardwired clicked much quicker and I enjoyed the singles leading into it. I'm just not feeling a connection to this album just like I didn't feel a connection to the singles. None of it is bad, just none of it seems interesting to me right now.
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So, after a couple of listens, I must say that I am generally happy with 72 Seasons.
James sounds awesome, and I think Kirk is pretty good here.
It's fair to say it's not as good or better than such and such an album, and I could take 4 or 5 tracks off and make a much more concise album, but I can do that with any of their albums really other than the 80's stuff.
Worth 7 years? Nothing is, but I'll take this.
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For me it's just kinda heartbreaking, hearing the most important band in my musical journey, play it safe, when they did anything BUT play it safe in the early days of their career.
I get it, they're over 40 years into said career, and they can do whatever the hell they want. I can still be disappointed in that though. Head over to the Metallica reddit and you'll hear some people declaring this is a masterpiece.
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For me it's just kinda heartbreaking, hearing the most important band in my musical journey, play it safe, when they did anything BUT play it safe in the early days of their career.
Is this really that uncommon for these legacy bands? I've been thinking about this as well. Most of these bands paint themselves into corners.
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Hardwired seems like a chore to get through. The first disc is great, but the first four songs on disc 2 slogged for me. Then they come back and completley melt your face with Spit Out the Bone.
The new one seems much more consistent and I don't find myself being bored out of my mind halfway through it. I will say that some of the songs do drone on a bit and I really love that Lux Aeterna kicks your ass for 4 minutes and then ends, compared to a number of 6-7 minute mid-tempo songs.
I do want to revisit disc 2 of Hardwired again though to see if any of those four songs click with me.
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I will say that some of the songs do drone on a bit and I really love that Lux Aeterna kicks your ass for 4 minutes and then ends, compared to a number of 6-7 minute mid-tempo songs.
Lux was my favorite of the singles and when it comes in, it really hits hard and stands out against the rest of the album from my two listens. It probably has to do with just being shorter and punchier compared to the other songs as you stated.
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For me it's just kinda heartbreaking, hearing the most important band in my musical journey, play it safe, when they did anything BUT play it safe in the early days of their career.
Is this really that uncommon for these legacy bands? I've been thinking about this as well. Most of these bands paint themselves into corners.
No, it's not uncommon at all, and I don't expect them to do anything, they've obviously got the right to do as they please. A small part of me holds out hope that they'll take a risk I guess.
Let's be honest, this is going to be their last studio album, what have they got to lose?
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For me it's just kinda heartbreaking, hearing the most important band in my musical journey, play it safe, when they did anything BUT play it safe in the early days of their career.
Is this really that uncommon for these legacy bands? I've been thinking about this as well. Most of these bands paint themselves into corners.
No, it's not uncommon at all, and I don't expect them to do anything, they've obviously got the right to do as they please. A small part of me holds out hope that they'll take a risk I guess.
Let's be honest, this is going to be their last studio album, what have they got to lose?
It is?
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I can see them doing one more. Maybe two. But that’s it.
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I think Lars recently stated they've got about 10 more years of touring if their health holds up so that might put them at one more album, but who knows what the future holds for bands that are aging. It could very well be their last, but I'd guess this is not their last album.
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First impression: It’s fine. Nothing new, but nothing bad. Feels like disc 3 of Hardwired.
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Kirk's solos being the same non-melodic pentatonic ripping, too many cycles of verses, the riffs being played in similar positions which makes them sound very similar to one another... That kind of stuff.
Funny enough, this is my big beef with most of the songs from the Load/Reload era, even though some consider it their more experimental phase (which they kind of do on 6-8 of their tracks between those two albums).
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Well no, they haven't said it'll be their last, and it may well not be. But surely they're gonna need to leave less than a 7 year gap next time?
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Metallica on iTunes? :tdwn No way am I listening to metal at 256. Especially brickwalled tinny mastering. Ugh.
CD OR NUTHIN! CD OR NUTHIIIIIIN!!!
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Metallica on iTunes? :tdwn No way am I listening to metal at 256. Especially brickwalled tinny mastering. Ugh. CD or nothing for me.
The mastering on 72 is terrible, not quite as bad as DM, but little or no dynamics at all, makes this very hard to listening on headphones.
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I mainly listen in car speakers.
Definitely making a best of DM/Beyond/HW/72 CD!
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I'm not commenting on sound quality until I listen to a non streamed version beyond what I'll say right now, it's neither a bad nor good sounding album. I feel like everything here is very safe from the songs to the sound.
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After a second listen I think the whole album is lacking any real dynamics, the songs just have no real personality and they just blend into one another (even the solo sound the same) It actually becomes hard to concentrate on and kind off ends up being background music!
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Count me in the not impressed camp.
This album solidifies my opinion that Metallica is nothing but a nostalgia act now. The volume and quality of output over the last 20 years does not justify them being the most popular metal band. Sucks to because they were my first favorite band in any genre. Got me into metal which eventually lead me to DT. The best version of Metallica died with Cliff. The second best version died when Jason left.
I'd say there are 3 really good songs on this album. A couple decent songs and the rest are awful.
Terrible Lyrics
Long, boring, mid temp songs
Lack of Melody
From start to finish this is easily my least favorite album. They need to just do a couple of tours and hang it up.
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Just listened to 72 Seasons. I believe it's a more concise version of Hardwired to Self Destruct: That means a lot of the overlong, filler songs in that album are gone (Which is a good thing) but I don't think there are as many highs as in Hardwired. There's nothing like "Atlas, Rise!", "Spit out the Bone", "Halo on Fire"... But the songs are good and they have great melodies. The title track is by far my favorite song of the album. It does share one weakness with Hardwired in that the first half of the album is way better than the last, but the difference isn't as big as it was on that album.
I think it's a better album than Hardwired as a whole, but the best songs in Hardwired are better than the best ones in 72 Seasons. I don't know if I like it more than Death Magnetic though.
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Love that this thread reached 72 pages on the release date of 72 Seasons.
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Love that this thread reached 72 pages on the release date of 72 Seasons.
Nuggetz :metal
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Love that this thread reached 72 pages on the release date of 72 Seasons.
Nuggetz :metal
:hat :metal
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Love that this thread reached 72 pages on the release date of 72 Seasons.
Not for us who change the layout to 50 replies per page
;)
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Love that this thread reached 72 pages on the release date of 72 Seasons.
Not for us who change the layout to 50 replies per page
;)
OK Crow.
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Converted the vinyl version this morning, normalised it and it's still much quieter than the downloadable version. The waveform appears to indicate it's quite a bit more dynamic than the official MP3s (which are again brickwalled). Interestingly, I also noticed the cymbals are slightly less in your face on the vinyl version.
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Converted the vinyl version this morning, normalised it and it's still much quieter than the downloadable version. The waveform appears to indicate it's quite a bit more dynamic than the official MP3s (which are again brickwalled). Interestingly, I also noticed the cymbals are slightly less in your face on the vinyl version.
Interesting. I've noticed that cymbals pop out when running my own tunes through version mastering processes. Not sure if it's an EQ adjustment or a side effect of compression.
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Love that this thread reached 72 pages on the release date of 72 Seasons.
I noticed that too.
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Converted the vinyl version this morning, normalised it and it's still much quieter than the downloadable version. The waveform appears to indicate it's quite a bit more dynamic than the official MP3s (which are again brickwalled). Interestingly, I also noticed the cymbals are slightly less in your face on the vinyl version.
Vinyl releases almost always use different mastering than CD / digital releases, as due to their physical nature they don’t handle super loud / compressed waveforms as well.
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I’ve use two or three different turntables and even different outlets throughout the house, and it doesn’t matter where I go. Every time I go to record my vinyl onto digital, I get a very faint high-pitched whine in the background. It’s not the same sound as a bad ground. And I’m almost wondering if it maybe has something to do with the analog to digital processor in my computer or maybe something to do with Audacity. But I’ve kind of given up hope at this point. I noticed that on the playback, you can’t even tell it’s there unless you turn up the volume really loud and even then you only hear it during the quiet bits. But just the fact that it exists really annoys me. I know I’m not getting the full sound of just the vinyl like I should be.
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I attended the album premiere event and unfortunately have to join the disappointed camp. The title-track rocks, Inamorata remains interesting despite its length, and a couple of other songs (mainly Sleepwalk and Room of Mirrors) struck me as pretty solid too, but on the whole the album is too bloated and samey. I wasn't expecting a new Master of Puppets by any means, but to my ears Hardwired had more energy and variety than this, and the bad tendencies of modern Metallica like Lars' lazy snare fills didn't bother me as much because of the stronger songwriting.
One of the things I love about classic Metallica is their use of clean/acoustic guitars and harmonies, and the lack of those makes it even harder to sit through the whole 77-minute album. If their intention was to go back to basics and recapture the spirit of the late 70s/early 80s metal they were influenced by when they actually were 18 (i.e. 72 seasons old), at least they could've kept the album length at the standard of that era too.
I just noticed that Hardwired is 32 seconds longer than 72 Seasons, yet Hardwired is two CD's and 72 Seasons is only one ???
Greg Fidelman reportedly stated that Lords of Summer was originally going to be on Hardwired, which would've pushed the album length over 80 minutes, but by the time they wrote the title-track and decided to put it on the album instead, the double-disc packaging was already in the works.
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For me it's just kinda heartbreaking, hearing the most important band in my musical journey, play it safe, when they did anything BUT play it safe in the early days of their career.
I get it, they're over 40 years into said career, and they can do whatever the hell they want. I can still be disappointed in that though. Head over to the Metallica reddit and you'll hear some people declaring this is a masterpiece.
I don't think I can agree really. I'd argue the earlier days were the safest. RTL - Justice all followed the same formula. (Maybe the best formula in metal music to be fair). But after that it's been nothing but risk. Black Album threw that formula out the window. Then you have the run of Load-Reload-Covers Album-Symphony Gig- and ending with St. Anger. Add the Lou Reed record to that. Hard to find a band who has taken more risk after they reached the top.
DM played it safe for sure.
Hardwired and 72 feels like them just putting it all together and leaning into it. Does that make them better or worse? That's up to the listener.
As for r/Metallica.....well you've seen the place. It was always going to be a masterpiece.
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For me it's just kinda heartbreaking, hearing the most important band in my musical journey, play it safe, when they did anything BUT play it safe in the early days of their career.
I get it, they're over 40 years into said career, and they can do whatever the hell they want. I can still be disappointed in that though. Head over to the Metallica reddit and you'll hear some people declaring this is a masterpiece.
I don't think I can agree really. I'd argue the earlier days were the safest. RTL - Justice all followed the same formula. (Maybe the best formula in metal music to be fair). But after that it's been nothing but risk. Black Album threw that formula out the window. Then you have the run of Load-Reload-Covers Album-Symphony Gig- and ending with St. Anger. Add the Lou Reed record to that. Hard to find a band who has taken more risk after they reached the top.
DM played it safe for sure.
Hardwired and 72 feels like them just putting it all together and leaning into it. Does that make them better or worse? That's up to the listener.
As for r/Metallica.....well you've seen the place. It was always going to be a masterpiece.
I fully agree about them taking risks through the 90s, and up to St. Anger (arguably their biggest risk). The problem is that since then (which is now 20 years) they have taken little to no risk and are very formulaic. You are right about Lulu, that definitely was a bold move.
As I said before, I don't expect them to make a less formulaic album, they can do as they please, I just wish they would. The majority of fans are happy and that is what matters.
I'm kind of eager to hear James doing something on his own at this point in their career. Kirk's solo EP really surprised me, and I just want a Hetfield outlaw country album to be honest.
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I'm kind of eager to hear James doing something on his own at this point in their career. Kirk's solo EP really surprised me, and I just want a Hetfield outlaw country album to be honest.
You've heard this right? James with Gov't Mule?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv9PI_-6eWI
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Even better on 2nd spin. I hear everything from the classic era; angst, energy, great riffs, Het belting out from his soul...but delivered to my ears in a far superior way than those early albums. They were super trebly with almost no bass or low end. I really love the last 2 albums.
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Converted the vinyl version this morning, normalised it and it's still much quieter than the downloadable version. The waveform appears to indicate it's quite a bit more dynamic than the official MP3s (which are again brickwalled). Interestingly, I also noticed the cymbals are slightly less in your face on the vinyl version.
Vinyl releases almost always use different mastering than CD / digital releases, as due to their physical nature they don’t handle super loud / compressed waveforms as well.
Appreciate the mansplain :lol That was why I did it :biggrin:
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Converted the vinyl version this morning, normalised it and it's still much quieter than the downloadable version. The waveform appears to indicate it's quite a bit more dynamic than the official MP3s (which are again brickwalled). Interestingly, I also noticed the cymbals are slightly less in your face on the vinyl version.
Vinyl releases almost always use different mastering than CD / digital releases, as due to their physical nature they don’t handle super loud / compressed waveforms as well.
Appreciate the mansplain :lol That was why I did it :biggrin:
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsailormoonnews.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F10%2Fmy_job_here_is_done_but_you_didnt_do_anything_meme-451x1024.jpg&hash=92853b43245e557b35886cd3b8176297b7ef293c)
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I'm kind of eager to hear James doing something on his own at this point in their career. Kirk's solo EP really surprised me, and I just want a Hetfield outlaw country album to be honest.
You've heard this right? James with Gov't Mule?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv9PI_-6eWI
Nope, never heard that before! Cheers dude
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Converted the vinyl version this morning, normalised it and it's still much quieter than the downloadable version. The waveform appears to indicate it's quite a bit more dynamic than the official MP3s (which are again brickwalled). Interestingly, I also noticed the cymbals are slightly less in your face on the vinyl version.
Vinyl releases almost always use different mastering than CD / digital releases, as due to their physical nature they don’t handle super loud / compressed waveforms as well.
Appreciate the mansplain :lol That was why I did it :biggrin:
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsailormoonnews.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F10%2Fmy_job_here_is_done_but_you_didnt_do_anything_meme-451x1024.jpg&hash=92853b43245e557b35886cd3b8176297b7ef293c)
Hehe! Nicely done :lol :biggrin:
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For me it's just kinda heartbreaking, hearing the most important band in my musical journey, play it safe, when they did anything BUT play it safe in the early days of their career.
I get it, they're over 40 years into said career, and they can do whatever the hell they want. I can still be disappointed in that though. Head over to the Metallica reddit and you'll hear some people declaring this is a masterpiece.
I don't think I can agree really. I'd argue the earlier days were the safest. RTL - Justice all followed the same formula. (Maybe the best formula in metal music to be fair). But after that it's been nothing but risk. Black Album threw that formula out the window. Then you have the run of Load-Reload-Covers Album-Symphony Gig- and ending with St. Anger. Add the Lou Reed record to that. Hard to find a band who has taken more risk after they reached the top.
DM played it safe for sure.
Hardwired and 72 feels like them just putting it all together and leaning into it. Does that make them better or worse? That's up to the listener.
As for r/Metallica.....well you've seen the place. It was always going to be a masterpiece.
I fully agree about them taking risks through the 90s, and up to St. Anger (arguably their biggest risk). The problem is that since then (which is now 20 years) they have taken little to no risk and are very formulaic. You are right about Lulu, that definitely was a bold move.
As I said before, I don't expect them to make a less formulaic album, they can do as they please, I just wish they would. The majority of fans are happy and that is what matters.
I'm kind of eager to hear James doing something on his own at this point in their career. Kirk's solo EP really surprised me, and I just want a Hetfield outlaw country album to be honest.
I totally get what you're saying. I can already see into the future and see the question asked that we've seen with Load/Reload. "If you could make Hardwired/72 into one album what songs would you choose?" Cause they are interchangeable. I guess because of the long time between albums though for me it doesn't seem tired yet and the new songs still have some freshness to them. That being said I've been having the same issue as you are having with Iron Maiden's last two albums. Feels like they are stuck in the same post reunion formula so I've become bored with it.
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Even better on 2nd spin. I hear everything from the classic era; angst, energy, great riffs, Het belting out from his soul...but delivered to my ears in a far superior way than those early albums. They were super trebly with almost no bass or low end. I really love the last 2 albums.
Damn straight. I’m kinda blown away by how good Room of Mirrors is, among others. The 2nd half of Shadows Follow is absolutely one of the heaviest things they’ve recorded. :metal Listened about 5-6 times now; they could have done away with a couple of the slow chuggers in the middle and made a leaner meaner album but when you only get one every 7 years you can’t complain. The bookends of this album are amazing, kind of like Powerslave.
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they could have done away with a couple of the slow chuggers in the middle and made a leaner meaner album but when you only get one every 7 years you can’t complain.
I agree.
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For me it's just kinda heartbreaking, hearing the most important band in my musical journey, play it safe, when they did anything BUT play it safe in the early days of their career.
I get it, they're over 40 years into said career, and they can do whatever the hell they want. I can still be disappointed in that though. Head over to the Metallica reddit and you'll hear some people declaring this is a masterpiece.
I don't think I can agree really. I'd argue the earlier days were the safest. RTL - Justice all followed the same formula. (Maybe the best formula in metal music to be fair). But after that it's been nothing but risk. Black Album threw that formula out the window. Then you have the run of Load-Reload-Covers Album-Symphony Gig- and ending with St. Anger. Add the Lou Reed record to that. Hard to find a band who has taken more risk after they reached the top.
DM played it safe for sure.
Hardwired and 72 feels like them just putting it all together and leaning into it. Does that make them better or worse? That's up to the listener.
As for r/Metallica.....well you've seen the place. It was always going to be a masterpiece.
I fully agree about them taking risks through the 90s, and up to St. Anger (arguably their biggest risk). The problem is that since then (which is now 20 years) they have taken little to no risk and are very formulaic. You are right about Lulu, that definitely was a bold move.
As I said before, I don't expect them to make a less formulaic album, they can do as they please, I just wish they would. The majority of fans are happy and that is what matters.
I'm kind of eager to hear James doing something on his own at this point in their career. Kirk's solo EP really surprised me, and I just want a Hetfield outlaw country album to be honest.
I totally get what you're saying. I can already see into the future and see the question asked that we've seen with Load/Reload. "If you could make Hardwired/72 into one album what songs would you choose?" Cause they are interchangeable. I guess because of the long time between albums though for me it doesn't seem tired yet and the new songs still have some freshness to them. That being said I've been having the same issue as you are having with Iron Maiden's last two albums. Feels like they are stuck in the same post reunion formula so I've become bored with it.
Agreed, although to my ears it could be argued 72 is the Reload of Hardwired.
LCArenas kinda touched on this above in that the two albums sound very similar in style etc yet Hardwired has the highlights. And I would take that a step further and suggest 72 sounds like leftovers from the Hardwired sessions.
Re-Wired?
Which I might add isn't necessarily a bad thing and personally really enjoying 72, but yeah ;)
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Agreed, although to my ears it could be argued 72 is the Reload of Hardwired.
LCArenas kinda touched on this above in that the two albums sound very similar in style etc yet Hardwired has the highlights. And I would take that a step further and suggest 72 sounds like leftovers from the Hardwired sessions.
Re-Wired?
:lol
That's funny.
72 Seasons isn't the piece of shit that Reload is though.
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I’ve use two or three different turntables and even different outlets throughout the house, and it doesn’t matter where I go. Every time I go to record my vinyl onto digital, I get a very faint high-pitched whine in the background. It’s not the same sound as a bad ground. And I’m almost wondering if it maybe has something to do with the analog to digital processor in my computer or maybe something to do with Audacity. But I’ve kind of given up hope at this point. I noticed that on the playback, you can’t even tell it’s there unless you turn up the volume really loud and even then you only hear it during the quiet bits. But just the fact that it exists really annoys me. I know I’m not getting the full sound of just the vinyl like I should be.
Check for coil whine with your computers CPU. I had an issue that plagued me for a long time when recording guitar tracks through my pc and it turns out it was coil whine caused by the cpu. Simple BIOS change fixed it.
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72 Seasons isn't the piece of shit that Reload is though.
Reload at least has more than one good song. There are a couple instances on this where a song is basically a heavier Bad Seed.
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72 Seasons isn't the piece of shit that Reload is though.
Reload at least has more than one good song. There are a couple instances on this where a song is basically a heavier Bad Seed.
Yea, come on dude. Reloads highs are way higher than 72 Seasons highs, at least to me they are.
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The Memory Remains, The Unforgiven II (a hill I'm willing to die on) and Fixxxer are really great. Low Man's Lyrics is also quite unusual and emotional.
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Have edited out You Must Burn! and Crown Of Barbed Wire. Will see how that settles.
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Isolated guitar tracks from Inamorata.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSbrIWmBlu0
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72 Seasons isn't the piece of shit that Reload is though.
Reload at least has more than one good song. There are a couple instances on this where a song is basically a heavier Bad Seed.
So does this one, IMO :lol. I do think 72 is better than ReLoad due to having better standouts, and 72 Seasons has the virtue of not having "Better than You" which is the worst song Metallica has ever done in their entire career (This is counting St. Anger, but not counting Lulu since it's not a Metallica album by themselves).
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There's probably 3-4 songs I like, 3-4 dislike and the rest in the middle that may move to either camp, which meet expectations for guys in their 60s.
Not sure I'm quite ready to place the album along the others 2 days after release, as my opinion changed of the last 3 album through the years.
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they could have done away with a couple of the slow chuggers in the middle and made a leaner meaner album but when you only get one every 7 years you can’t complain.
I agree.
Yeah, I'd say I'm of two minds about that...it's true that one can just say, well, it's more material, I'll just forget about the filler and be happy about the goodies...on the other hand, I do like to think of an album as an overall experience, and the filler does affect the enjoyment of that experience. Like with Hardwired - as it is, I still think it's a very good album, but I feel like if they got rid of everything from ManUNkind through Murder One, it would be borderline crossing into "great" category.
If you add that (for me, obviously) the highs on 72 don't come close to the highs on Hardwired, and the lows go quite a bit lower...there's definitely disappointment there.
Anyway, with a couple more listens, I'd confirm my personal early highlights - Shadows Follow is quite good (and melodically interesting in the chorus), Chasing Light has a certain urgency that I enjoy, and the album closes on a good stretch with Too Far Gone?, Room of Mirrors (maybe my favorite? The harmonized part towards the end is simple but so effective) and Inamorata (way better than I expected, this one). The title-track is good, but should have been (at least) a couple of minutes shorter. It would have been punchier and made a good, thrashier companion to the more Motorhead-like Lux Aeterna.
On the other hand:
Have edited out You Must Burn! and Crown Of Barbed Wire. Will see how that settles.
Yep, these two and Sleepwalk My Life Away are just not good for me. The Sleepwalk/Burn combo slows the album's momentum big time... You Must Burn, in particular, at best sounds like a tired Sad But True re-tread, at worst, um...I mean, the part after the second chorus, starting around 3:15 through 3:40 or so...what exactly is going on there? ;) After that at least we get treated to some relatively cool Sabbath/Alice in Chains interlude (and the recurring guitar melody is quite neat). But still...
Overall, though, I'm enjoying the album a bit more as I revisited it. I guess at this point in their career there is no producer that will give them editing/arrangement advice, but to me they could use some...
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One listen-through so far and I found it to be fine. Nothing that knocked my socks off right out of the gate like some of the Hardwired highpoints, but nothing that feels as unnecessary as most of disc 2 of Hardwired either. I think the bloat here is in songs being a minute or two longer than needed rather than there being songs that should've been dropped altogether.
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Crown Of Barbed Wire is actually one of the standout tracks for me at the moment. That main riff and the vocal melody ("This rusted empire I own") is really nice.
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One listen-through so far and I found it to be fine. Nothing that knocked my socks off right out of the gate like some of the Hardwired highpoints, but nothing that feels as unnecessary as most of disc 2 of Hardwired either.
I can get on board with this.
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So I've put on the album twice, and while none of it (that I heard) was bad, I fell asleep both times. That can't be a good sign.
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Kirk's solo in Chasing Light is fucking ripping! :metal
This song is growing on me and has a real old school feel.
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Kirk's solo in Chasing Light is fucking ripping! :metal
This song is growing on me and has a real old school feel.
Yes that one really stood out to me today after another listen.
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It's an average album peppered with some fucking fantastic moments. I'm a die-hard Metallica fan, so I'm giving it a few listens before I come to my final conclusion.
But right now, my thoughts are: it just sounds like a jam session with a bit of fine-tuning. Metallica doesn't have the same 'hunger' that drove their masterpieces. They're not aiming to take over the world. They've reached the top and they're sitting there comfortably and they're complacent. They're still good at making you bang your head, but they don't have the intricacy and complexity that made them gods.
I think the most mediocre part of their last few albums was Kirk, to be honest. He doesn't have the same passion, and it shows.
While some guitarists are dismissive of Hammett’s heavy reliance on the minor pentatonic scale, Kirk argues that with just five notes, it’s more challenging. “It’s actually harder to say stuff with pentatonics because you don’t have that many notes,” he reasons. “It’s easier to play modal. I will challenge anyone on that.”
...
Hammett’s shift away from modal scales and arpeggios mirrors his move to more improvisational solos, which led to him proclaiming, “It drives me nuts having to play that fucking guitar solo in Master of Puppets every time – I’m freaking bored of it”.
https://www.guitarworld.com/news/metallica-kirk-hammett-solo-trolls
Right now I'm enjoying the album and I'd give it a 6 or maybe even a 7 out of 10. However, I've actually found it making me want to go back and listen to RtL, MoP, and AJFA to experience them in their prime. But fuck it, these guys are 60 and still cranking out music. Good on them.
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After a few more spins I think the album as a whole is way weaker than the sum of its parts. I tried to listen to each song individually all throughout these days and really found myself loving songs like "Too Far Gone?", "Room of Mirrors" and "Inamorata" whereas I didn't care much for them when I listened the album the first time. I think that when you do that you start to feel tired of the same-ness of the songs in the middle of the album until "Chasing Light" and miss the great songs at the end. Honestly Love the way the album closes, but the songs worked far better for me when I listened to them one by one.
"Too Far Gone?" is my main example of this, as it is right now my second favorite song of the album. Real good stuff. Love James starting the song with the "I! I! AM!" lines.
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I’ve never thought of their albums in the whole, always have been just a bunch of songs sometimes great sometimes just entertaining… I mean they’re not doing concepts or reprisals, most obvious thing is an intro thrasher and an ending thrasher.
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It's an average album peppered with some fucking fantastic moments. I'm a die-hard Metallica fan, so I'm giving it a few listens before I come to my final conclusion.
But right now, my thoughts are: it just sounds like a jam session with a bit of fine-tuning. Metallica doesn't have the same 'hunger' that drove their masterpieces. They're not aiming to take over the world. They've reached the top and they're sitting there comfortably and they're complacent. They're still good at making you bang your head, but they don't have the intricacy and complexity that made them gods.
I think the most mediocre part of their last few albums was Kirk, to be honest. He doesn't have the same passion, and it shows.
While some guitarists are dismissive of Hammett’s heavy reliance on the minor pentatonic scale, Kirk argues that with just five notes, it’s more challenging. “It’s actually harder to say stuff with pentatonics because you don’t have that many notes,” he reasons. “It’s easier to play modal. I will challenge anyone on that.”
...
Hammett’s shift away from modal scales and arpeggios mirrors his move to more improvisational solos, which led to him proclaiming, “It drives me nuts having to play that fucking guitar solo in Master of Puppets every time – I’m freaking bored of it”.
https://www.guitarworld.com/news/metallica-kirk-hammett-solo-trolls
Right now I'm enjoying the album and I'd give it a 6 or maybe even a 7 out of 10. However, I've actually found it making me want to go back and listen to RtL, MoP, and AJFA to experience them in their prime. But fuck it, these guys are 60 and still cranking out music. Good on them.
I pretty much agree with everything you just said. Overall I am just glad that they're finally releasing albums with Rob. Ever since he joined the band, I have been wanting to hear his contributions.
The thing that is drawing me from really enjoying the band currently is Kirk. It feels/sounds like he's just there. What I don't quite get (well, I do understand the challenging yourself aspect) is why would a musician want to limit how they express themselves, and there's just only so many emotions those 5 notes can express. What I loved about Kirk was his solo's, they were more composed to actually compliment the music, allowing the guitar bring out the emotion of the song, creating an awesome atmosphere that makes you sometimes cry. This is why a lot of people love the "Master of Puppets" solo and prefer/expect to hear it played the same way live. It's how I feel about "The Unforgiven" solo and a big reason why it's one of my top 10 Metallica songs. But if he wants to challenge himself, who am I to say he shouldn't. All that matters to me is if it fits the song, and currently, his solo's do not fit the songs for me.
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The thing that is drawing me from really enjoying the band currently is Kirk. It feels/sounds like he's just there. What I don't quite get (well, I do understand the challenging yourself aspect) is why would a musician want to limit how they express themselves, and there's just only so many emotions those 5 notes can express. What I loved about Kirk was his solo's, they were more composed to actually compliment the music, allowing the guitar bring out the emotion of the song, creating an awesome atmosphere that makes you sometimes cry. This is why a lot of people love the "Master of Puppets" solo and prefer/expect to hear it played the same way live. It's how I feel about "The Unforgiven" solo and a big reason why it's one of my top 10 Metallica songs. But if he wants to challenge himself, who am I to say he shouldn't. All that matters to me is if it fits the song, and currently, his solo's do not fit the songs for me.
Whenever I actually listen to Kirk in an interview, I get the feeling that he's baked his mind into oblivion. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.
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While some guitarists are dismissive of Hammett’s heavy reliance on the minor pentatonic scale, Kirk argues that with just five notes, it’s more challenging. “It’s actually harder to say stuff with pentatonics because you don’t have that many notes,” he reasons. “It’s easier to play modal. I will challenge anyone on that.”
...
Hammett’s shift away from modal scales and arpeggios mirrors his move to more improvisational solos, which led to him proclaiming, “It drives me nuts having to play that fucking guitar solo in Master of Puppets every time – I’m freaking bored of it”.
https://www.guitarworld.com/news/metallica-kirk-hammett-solo-trolls
Right now I'm enjoying the album and I'd give it a 6 or maybe even a 7 out of 10. However, I've actually found it making me want to go back and listen to RtL, MoP, and AJFA to experience them in their prime. But fuck it, these guys are 60 and still cranking out music. Good on them.
Thanks for linking that article. I think Kirk's head's gone and it needs more than a slight wobble to pop back.
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The thing that is drawing me from really enjoying the band currently is Kirk. It feels/sounds like he's just there. What I don't quite get (well, I do understand the challenging yourself aspect) is why would a musician want to limit how they express themselves, and there's just only so many emotions those 5 notes can express. What I loved about Kirk was his solo's, they were more composed to actually compliment the music, allowing the guitar bring out the emotion of the song, creating an awesome atmosphere that makes you sometimes cry. This is why a lot of people love the "Master of Puppets" solo and prefer/expect to hear it played the same way live. It's how I feel about "The Unforgiven" solo and a big reason why it's one of my top 10 Metallica songs. But if he wants to challenge himself, who am I to say he shouldn't. All that matters to me is if it fits the song, and currently, his solo's do not fit the songs for me.
Whenever I actually listen to Kirk in an interview, I get the feeling that he's baked his mind into oblivion. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.
I said it above, but I don't think it's Kirk. I think Lars and James are directing him when it comes to his solos, and he hasn't got the freedom to just do what he wants.
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Jeez, Kirk is insanely arrogant in that interview.
I argue that he knows all those scales and the modes too.
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Just watched Blackened from Seattle 89. Lars was skipping fills and doing wacky shit back then too.
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Is the vague reprisal of My Friend of Misery's chorus in Inamorata intentional?
Some cool moments from my first listen-through, along with some very boring moments, and Lux Aeterna remains my personal favorite mainly due to its conciseness. Looking forward to digging into it more to see if my opinion changes.
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The thing that is drawing me from really enjoying the band currently is Kirk. It feels/sounds like he's just there. What I don't quite get (well, I do understand the challenging yourself aspect) is why would a musician want to limit how they express themselves, and there's just only so many emotions those 5 notes can express. What I loved about Kirk was his solo's, they were more composed to actually compliment the music, allowing the guitar bring out the emotion of the song, creating an awesome atmosphere that makes you sometimes cry. This is why a lot of people love the "Master of Puppets" solo and prefer/expect to hear it played the same way live. It's how I feel about "The Unforgiven" solo and a big reason why it's one of my top 10 Metallica songs. But if he wants to challenge himself, who am I to say he shouldn't. All that matters to me is if it fits the song, and currently, his solo's do not fit the songs for me.
Whenever I actually listen to Kirk in an interview, I get the feeling that he's baked his mind into oblivion. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.
Kirk has said in the past that he would always keep his ego in check because there were already too many big egos in the band. Now that James and Lars both mellowed out, maybe Kirk is letting his ego show.
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The thing that is drawing me from really enjoying the band currently is Kirk. It feels/sounds like he's just there. What I don't quite get (well, I do understand the challenging yourself aspect) is why would a musician want to limit how they express themselves, and there's just only so many emotions those 5 notes can express. What I loved about Kirk was his solo's, they were more composed to actually compliment the music, allowing the guitar bring out the emotion of the song, creating an awesome atmosphere that makes you sometimes cry. This is why a lot of people love the "Master of Puppets" solo and prefer/expect to hear it played the same way live. It's how I feel about "The Unforgiven" solo and a big reason why it's one of my top 10 Metallica songs. But if he wants to challenge himself, who am I to say he shouldn't. All that matters to me is if it fits the song, and currently, his solo's do not fit the songs for me.
Whenever I actually listen to Kirk in an interview, I get the feeling that he's baked his mind into oblivion. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.
I said it above, but I don't think it's Kirk. I think Lars and James are directing him when it comes to his solos, and he hasn't got the freedom to just do what he wants.
I disagree. I think they’re encouraging his natural tendencies. It was really Bob that pushed him really hard to compose good solos on TBA. Everything I’ve seen of him in the studio is him wanting to improvise and do exactly what he’s doing with Lars cheering it on. The fact that his playing is different on his solo EP doesn’t really impact it I don’t think.
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This album I think is pretty cool after five listens or so. I'd rate it about 75/100.
The only song I think flat out sucks is You Must Burn! It's like Sad But True and even mimics the snare/crash accents of that song, but the riff is just inferior. Everything about it tries to hard.
The guitar solos.. I think Kirk is a great guitar player and he has written/played so many memorable solos but as many have pointed out: It's all pentatonic wankery, most of it even played in the exact same position.
Of course I would like more dynamics, clean guitars, better composed guitar solos, but it is what it is. The riffage and James singing and overall songwriting kick ass IMO.
However, I was going for a run the other day and Spotify autoplay decided to 'The Formation of Damnation' by Testament. I rarely listen to them but I instantly noticed such a difference. The drum sound was much more organic, the guitar solos had way more imagination, and overall it was more virtuosic than Metallica. But Testament just doesn't have James Hetfield on vocals..
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However, I was going for a run the other day and Spotify autoplay decided to 'The Formation of Damnation' by Testament. I rarely listen to them but I instantly noticed such a difference. The drum sound was much more organic, the guitar solos had way more imagination, and overall it was more virtuosic than Metallica. But Testament just doesn't have James Hetfield on vocals..
I love Testament, and think out of all the OG thrash bands, they managed to stay relevant and have rarely sounded dated, like many of the others have. I'd say Kreator have to some extent too.
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After more listening, this album is good, not great. It doesn't have all of the highs of some of their albums, but it is also devoid of any real clunkers, so it's more consistent than many of their albums, which goes a long way with me.
I would suggest that anyone that is too disappointed that it doesn't have the same "magic" as their formative albums probably had their expectations too high. Not sure why anyone would think that a band who is 40 some odd years into their career and has already conquered the mountain 7 times over would approach the creation of new music the same way as they used to. They are different people now, so what comes out now will also be different. Given that, it's pretty good.
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CD packaging is something I haven't tet seen. Don't really love it.
Least fav so far is You Must Burn but it's not something I skip...yet.
One of the biggest changes for me over the last year is making sure my initial listen to any new album is on my headphones. It seems to elevate the experience.
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Two full listens in, I guess I'll have to listen to it more.
I'm in the "not bad, not great, too samey" camp. Not enough diversity, pace is too slow, it's "scary" do dedicate to 80 minutes of music without a clear highlight to look forward to. Nothing here sucks but, without going too far, nothing can reach Halo on Fire or Spit Out the Bone either. It definitively needed a ballad and a couple of songs either dropped, or changed in style.
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The thing that is drawing me from really enjoying the band currently is Kirk. It feels/sounds like he's just there. What I don't quite get (well, I do understand the challenging yourself aspect) is why would a musician want to limit how they express themselves, and there's just only so many emotions those 5 notes can express. What I loved about Kirk was his solo's, they were more composed to actually compliment the music, allowing the guitar bring out the emotion of the song, creating an awesome atmosphere that makes you sometimes cry. This is why a lot of people love the "Master of Puppets" solo and prefer/expect to hear it played the same way live. It's how I feel about "The Unforgiven" solo and a big reason why it's one of my top 10 Metallica songs. But if he wants to challenge himself, who am I to say he shouldn't. All that matters to me is if it fits the song, and currently, his solo's do not fit the songs for me.
Whenever I actually listen to Kirk in an interview, I get the feeling that he's baked his mind into oblivion. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.
I said it above, but I don't think it's Kirk. I think Lars and James are directing him when it comes to his solos, and he hasn't got the freedom to just do what he wants.
It was really Bob that pushed him really hard to compose good solos on TBA.
The video of Bob pushing Kirk to create the Unforgiven solo is fantastic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LftgfoRWqI
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I love watching them get all bitchy in the studio :lol
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IMO, the new album is a consistent work, probably their most consistent since Load. That said, nothing really stands out to me in a significant way. A few things, maybe.
But that's my problem with post-Black album Metallica. I could probably come up with one full 80-minute CD of "good to very good" songs from Load through 72 Seasons. Whereas, all the records before it, they are way more impactful standing on their own. I don't even really personally like the Black album as much as some people do, but the songs are well done and that is a really good record, front-to-back.
I realize Metallica is no longer a thrash band, and they moved on from that after AJFA because they took fast and complicated as far as they felt they could go. But yet all their peers (Megadeth, Testament, Anthrax, Death Angel, etc., etc.) are all putting out excellent thrash albums. But Metallica...is just noodling along at slower tempos. Why? Laziness? Even Death Magnetic was a bummer. It was the most contrived, non-feeling album I've ever heard. They tried to be heavy, and it was repetitive and annoying. Why bother even putting it out?
I know hardcore fans can make every argument under the sun about them trying new things, and growing, blah, blah, blah. But when your name is METALlica, I expect METAL. I don't expect slower tempo nods to your influences and incorporating latest trends. I expect you to RIP. Sure, experimentation within that ripping, blistering metal is expected and encouraged. But Metallica just sounds like a band with nothing to prove, who are making music that they feel like making, because no matter the quality or expectation on what they did in the past, they know they have a fan base that will lap it up and say it is the greatest thing ever. I mean, do they even LIKE thrash metal any longer? I mean, if they hate it, then that would explain things.
I understand, I think, where they are in their creative lives, and don't necessarily expect anything they do to break new ground. But I *do* expect them to play thrash-style metal throughout the majority of their albums. And they don't. And that's disappointing to me. I check out every single piece of music Metallica releases. And there are some gems along the way. But it's like they've lost their identity, or cast it out in favor of an identity that suits them right now. And as a fan, I hang on, hoping for greatness. And 90 percent of the time walk away being disappointed.
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I don't have a problem with the style. I dig the rhythm guitar and vocals, I just wish it was more memorable. They used to crank out unique riffs like nobody's business. People might disagree with me, but I loved the riff-work on Death Magnetic, too.
Edit: People taking "You Must Burn" out?! That song has my absolute favorite riff on the album, starting right around 4:30.
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I *do* expect them to play thrash-style metal throughout the majority of their albums. And they don't. And that's disappointing to me.
Well, if they don't, then why do you expect them to do it?
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So I'm just listening to Kirk's solo album for the very first time (how did I not know about it?)
The solos are a little rough around the edges, but overall the music feels much more inspired and well-written than anything he's done in Metallica since... I don't know, AJFA? At least judging by the first song. Sounds like he just has kind of a "meh" approach with Metallica these days.
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I fully realize and appreciate the subjective aspect of music, after all, I actively disliked Maiden's latest album and I love Maiden. But, to say that you don't hear "metal" while listening to 72 Seasons is something that doesn't compute. Most songs are up-tempo with IMO, fantastic riffs and locked in rhythm sections. To me, it's HEAVY. 60 year-olds still belting out this kind of music is uplifting to me.
But to each their own. It's music after all.
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IMO, the new album is a consistent work, probably their most consistent since Load. That said, nothing really stands out to me in a significant way. A few things, maybe.
But that's my problem with post-Black album Metallica. I could probably come up with one full 80-minute CD of "good to very good" songs from Load through 72 Seasons. Whereas, all the records before it, they are way more impactful standing on their own. I don't even really personally like the Black album as much as some people do, but the songs are well done and that is a really good record, front-to-back.
I realize Metallica is no longer a thrash band, and they moved on from that after AJFA because they took fast and complicated as far as they felt they could go. But yet all their peers (Megadeth, Testament, Anthrax, Death Angel, etc., etc.) are all putting out excellent thrash albums. But Metallica...is just noodling along at slower tempos. Why? Laziness? Even Death Magnetic was a bummer. It was the most contrived, non-feeling album I've ever heard. They tried to be heavy, and it was repetitive and annoying. Why bother even putting it out?
Just asking, but I don't get the correlation made here. I GREATLY prefer the material from TBA onward - my list in the song thing Kev ran WAY heavy to the latter years - I don't at all consider "slower tempos" to be "lazier". I actually think the early stuff was rather formulaic and driven by youthful enthusiasm as much as anything else... I've noted a couple times that the "James singing down a concrete storm drain pipe" vocal sound is something with a finite shelf-life.
I get liking one style over another. I also get the notion - though I don't completely buy it myself - that one style might have historical implications. But it still comes down to what the artist wants to do at any given time. I'm not a die-hard Metallica fan, but honestly, if I was, the ONE thing I could say about "my band" is those motherfuckers certainly never sat still. it's actually kind of funny to me that the two albums in their catalogue that sound MOST alike... are the two widely regarded as classics.
But Metallica just sounds like a band with nothing to prove, who are making music that they feel like making, because no matter the quality or expectation on what they did in the past, they know they have a fan base that will lap it up and say it is the greatest thing ever. I mean, do they even LIKE thrash metal any longer? I mean, if they hate it, then that would explain things.
Isn't that what artists DO? The good ones, I mean? We already know that associating "quality" with a certain album is subjective; and we know that St. Anger and Lulu WEREN'T "lapped up" at all.
I understand, I think, where they are in their creative lives, and don't necessarily expect anything they do to break new ground. But I *do* expect them to play thrash-style metal throughout the majority of their albums. And they don't. And that's disappointing to me. I check out every single piece of music Metallica releases. And there are some gems along the way. But it's like they've lost their identity, or cast it out in favor of an identity that suits them right now. And as a fan, I hang on, hoping for greatness. And 90 percent of the time walk away being disappointed.
I think if you wrote "want" - meaning your own personal desire - as opposed to "expected" - implying some obligation to meet something external - I might not have said anything, but I don't think we can expect ANYTHING other than TRUTH from our artists. As long as they are being TRUE to themselves, I think that's all we can EVER ask. And I have no evidence that they are not being true to themselves with the music they make. They wouldn't have the catalogue they do if it were otherwise.
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After 5 or 6 listens I gotta agree it’s good not great - I think it has a good flow, but my attention starts to wander during Chasing Light and If Darkness Had a Son, but it comes back for the last 3 songs. Inamorata and the title track are the 2 best songs for me, and other highlights are Too Far Gone, Room of Mirrors and Crown of Barbed Wire
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They don’t WANT to play thrash. But it’s still damn heavy. I don’t understand the problem.
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Ok so I really like the album and I don’t get why most people find it so mid at all. Maybe I’m just really easy to please, I don’t know…
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They don’t WANT to play thrash. But it’s still damn heavy. I don’t understand the problem.
Ok so I really like the album and I don’t get why most people find it so mid at all. Maybe I’m just really easy to please, I don’t know…
These two quotes are exactly me. I don't expect Metallica to be breaking down thrash barriers any time soon. Kreator, Overkill, Testament, Exodus, Death Angel - there are so many thrash bands that are still doing that so well. Metallica is just doing their thing, it still rocks, and despite a thing here or there that I may not like, I just try to enjoy it for what it is. There's some great riffs and headbanging moments on the album.
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Ok so I really like the album and I don’t get why most people find it so mid at all. Maybe I’m just really easy to please, I don’t know…
I'm with you. Really seems like people (not just here, but internet in general) either have unrealistic expectations or just enjoy hopping on the bandwagon to shit on Metallica. With the comments it seems like the album would be terrible, but its definitely not.
Is it Master Of Puppets 2? No, but that's on you for having silly expectations. This is pretty on par or even greater than any great late-stage band with this long of a career.
And those of you comparing this to other thrash bands, when was the last time Metallica considered themselves thrash? 40 years ago? I wasn't even born then, and yet I have grey in my beard. Time to move on.
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IMO, the new album is a consistent work, probably their most consistent since Load. That said, nothing really stands out to me in a significant way. A few things, maybe.
But that's my problem with post-Black album Metallica. I could probably come up with one full 80-minute CD of "good to very good" songs from Load through 72 Seasons. Whereas, all the records before it, they are way more impactful standing on their own. I don't even really personally like the Black album as much as some people do, but the songs are well done and that is a really good record, front-to-back.
I realize Metallica is no longer a thrash band, and they moved on from that after AJFA because they took fast and complicated as far as they felt they could go. But yet all their peers (Megadeth, Testament, Anthrax, Death Angel, etc., etc.) are all putting out excellent thrash albums. But Metallica...is just noodling along at slower tempos. Why? Laziness? Even Death Magnetic was a bummer. It was the most contrived, non-feeling album I've ever heard. They tried to be heavy, and it was repetitive and annoying. Why bother even putting it out?
I know hardcore fans can make every argument under the sun about them trying new things, and growing, blah, blah, blah. But when your name is METALlica, I expect METAL. I don't expect slower tempo nods to your influences and incorporating latest trends. I expect you to RIP. Sure, experimentation within that ripping, blistering metal is expected and encouraged. But Metallica just sounds like a band with nothing to prove, who are making music that they feel like making, because no matter the quality or expectation on what they did in the past, they know they have a fan base that will lap it up and say it is the greatest thing ever. I mean, do they even LIKE thrash metal any longer? I mean, if they hate it, then that would explain things.
I understand, I think, where they are in their creative lives, and don't necessarily expect anything they do to break new ground. But I *do* expect them to play thrash-style metal throughout the majority of their albums. And they don't. And that's disappointing to me. I check out every single piece of music Metallica releases. And there are some gems along the way. But it's like they've lost their identity, or cast it out in favor of an identity that suits them right now. And as a fan, I hang on, hoping for greatness. And 90 percent of the time walk away being disappointed.
This is an interesting post since they stopped playing thrash metal almost 35 years ago.
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Metal is a young (angry) man’s game.
They spent their entire 20s locked up in hotel rooms and tour buses listening to their influences/peers and playing music. But It’s not 1986 anymore; they aren’t going to go back to that mindset, and in their late 50s/early 60s, they aren’t going to be coming up with anything groundbreaking or genre defining. Even Zeppelin kinda went to shit after 6-7 years. The fact that they had such a great run in the first place is a miracle and why Metallica Inc is a billion dollar operation- MOST bands have 1-2 albums of creativity in them (if any at all). As much as we want them to be, they are no longer creative at a high level.
They don’t have “it” anymore- and that’s okay.
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When I compare them to other old school thrash bands, it's not meant like "why don't they play thrash anymore?", it's more that it feels like those other bands still have their heart and soul in what they are releasing. To me personally, Metallica's latest lacks heart and soul (outside of the odd moment here and there), and feels like a band going through the motions.
As always, that's just my personal view, and I get it that others won't hear the new album in the same way as me. Good for you guys honestly.
As I also mentioned, Metallica are the band that are the most important to me in my musical journey, and I hold them in such high regard, and always will. Because of this, I know I hold the band to a really high standard, higher than I would almost any band. I'm aware this is actually pretty unfair to a band that have been together 40 years.
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It's hard to say a band is going through the motions or isn't putting their heart in it anymore. We don't know what's going through their minds in the studio when they're creating new music. Maybe this is just what their best effort and pouring their heart out yields these days. Nothing wrong with that. It's still a solid, if unremarkable, album.
Let's face it, Metallica don't need to be putting out new albums at all. They could tour for another 10 years only on their stuff from the 80s. The fact that they put out the occasional album still is just a bonus IMO.
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Hey look, as an old school fan I was hugely bummed out (angry even) when they went where they did in the 90s . . . . but I have come to grips with reality. These guys were saying back in 1986 they didn't want to be pigeonholed as thrash. Lars never really could play that stuff well anyway unless he had done like 5 lines of coke first. Het and Kirk have got a ton of mileage on them. Hell those guys have probably picked 50 times as many notes in their lifetimes as your favorite thrash bands considering the amount of touring they've done and the length of their shows. I'm glad they can still stand up there and play any of their old songs. The last 3 albums have had a fair few thrashy sections, it's not like they never play up-tempo.
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A lot of really interesting thoughts ITT. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in their HQ to see how they write and flesh out songs. James talked about wanting the other guys to be more involved with this album (vs it just being him and Lars) but I wonder if the output would be any better with a really strong or different producer. Again, I don't know what the dynamic is with Greg Fidelman (and Rick Rubin before that). Maybe it doesn't matter since the band isn't in the same headspace/financial/personal place they were 20-30 years ago.
Listening to the album through the second time and my thoughts echo a lot of others already shared. Some good, some bad, a lot of middling. And a lot that could be cut out or shortened. Overall I'm enjoying it for the most part.
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Metal is a young (angry) man’s game.
They spent their entire 20s locked up in hotel rooms and tour buses listening to their influences/peers and playing music. But It’s not 1986 anymore; they aren’t going to go back to that mindset, and in their late 50s/early 60s, they aren’t going to be coming up with anything groundbreaking or genre defining. Even Zeppelin kinda went to shit after 6-7 years. The fact that they had such a great run in the first place is a miracle and why Metallica Inc is a billion dollar operation- MOST bands have 1-2 albums of creativity in them (if any at all). As much as we want them to be, they are no longer creative at a high level.
They don’t have “it” anymore- and that’s okay.
But all this implies they flamed out decades ago. I don't agree with this assessment. "Not what I like" DOESN'T MEAN "crap" or lack of creativity. I find the Load records far more "creative" in the sense of exploration than either Master of Puppets or Ride the Lightning. (And to your example of Zeppelin, their best record was their sixth, put out in their seventh year).
I really, really am not following this idea that the CREATIVE people we like - that we feel have broken down doors of genre and style - are then supposed to just freeze themselves forever and never push another envelope for decades.
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When I compare them to other old school thrash bands, it's not meant like "why don't they play thrash anymore?", it's more that it feels like those other bands still have their heart and soul in what they are releasing. To me personally, Metallica's latest lacks heart and soul (outside of the odd moment here and there), and feels like a band going through the motions.
As always, that's just my personal view, and I get it that others won't hear the new album in the same way as me. Good for you guys honestly.
As I also mentioned, Metallica are the band that are the most important to me in my musical journey, and I hold them in such high regard, and always will. Because of this, I know I hold the band to a really high standard, higher than I would almost any band. I'm aware this is actually pretty unfair to a band that have been together 40 years.
But whenever we make statements like this, we have to recognize and accept that there's no objective fact analysis here; we are really ONLY talking about OUR REACTION to a static piece of art released on the world. We really do have NO IDEA what went into making, say, Master of Puppets, versus, say, St. Anger. I think there are very credible arguments that St. Anger is a FAR more representative work for Metallica than MoP. I deal with this with my two favorite bands: Kiss and the Beatles. Everyone loves the first couple Kiss records (the makeup years). Most of those records were dashed off in days in the studio. They spend far more time on the latter non-makeup records and they are almost non-existant in the setlists these days. The Beatles recorded their first record in 12 hours. Didn't take that much longer for their next two or three. By all accounts, the Beatles put more effort into the White Album than almost any other, and while it is legendary, it's a troubled, bloated work. Paul labored over "Ob-La-Di" more than any other song (by contrast, i think "Yesterday" took two takes and an overdub) and it's widely derided by fans and band alike.
The point is, we DON'T know whether a band has put in the work or not, and whether we like it or not isn't a reliable indicator. Whether it's successful or not is not a reliable indicator.
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When I compare them to other old school thrash bands, it's not meant like "why don't they play thrash anymore?", it's more that it feels like those other bands still have their heart and soul in what they are releasing. To me personally, Metallica's latest lacks heart and soul (outside of the odd moment here and there), and feels like a band going through the motions.
As always, that's just my personal view, and I get it that others won't hear the new album in the same way as me. Good for you guys honestly.
As I also mentioned, Metallica are the band that are the most important to me in my musical journey, and I hold them in such high regard, and always will. Because of this, I know I hold the band to a really high standard, higher than I would almost any band. I'm aware this is actually pretty unfair to a band that have been together 40 years.
But whenever we make statements like this, we have to recognize and accept that there's no objective fact analysis here; we are really ONLY talking about OUR REACTION to a static piece of art released on the world. We really do have NO IDEA what went into making, say, Master of Puppets, versus, say, St. Anger. I think there are very credible arguments that St. Anger is a FAR more representative work for Metallica than MoP. I deal with this with my two favorite bands: Kiss and the Beatles. Everyone loves the first couple Kiss records (the makeup years). Most of those records were dashed off in days in the studio. They spend far more time on the latter non-makeup records and they are almost non-existant in the setlists these days. The Beatles recorded their first record in 12 hours. Didn't take that much longer for their next two or three. By all accounts, the Beatles put more effort into the White Album than almost any other, and while it is legendary, it's a troubled, bloated work. Paul labored over "Ob-La-Di" more than any other song (by contrast, i think "Yesterday" took two takes and an overdub) and it's widely derided by fans and band alike.
The point is, we DON'T know whether a band has put in the work or not, and whether we like it or not isn't a reliable indicator. Whether it's successful or not is not a reliable indicator.
Dude, I agree with everything you said. I said above, it's just my personal opinion on the album. My opinion doesn't mean shit, and I'm well aware that I have no clue as to how much heart and soul went into this record, compared to others in their catalogue.
Regardless of all that though, to me this album feels like it's lacking heart and soul. That opinion only matters to me, but I'm still gonna share it.
I know you're not trying to say I shouldn't share my opinion. I'm just stating that my opinion is my own and I'm in no way saying anyone should agree with me.
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No we're good; I was less writing TO you than using your post as a springboard. I think you were pretty clear that this is just your feelings on the matter.
I probably should let it go, too. I just find it fascinating how polarizing Metallica is in this way. I felt this way during the Metallica song thing, too: it's sometimes hard to comprehend the "sacredness" of that early work when you don't also share that reverence.
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Friends,
Regarding my post, I didn't mean to rile folks up at all. If you enjoy what you enjoy, that's obviously all that matters. So all of this is my subjective take on Metallica's music.
I guess, for me, it comes down to this:
Metallica were basically the originators of the subgenre of thrash metal (yes, I know arguments can be made pro and con, but to me, they are, and I'm rolling with it). They did that style for four albums, getting faster and more complicated all the way through AJFA. The point of their music was to be faster and heavier than everyone. And while that, over time, is unsustainable (which I understand), if you stop playing the subgenre of music you created (or defined), it's confusing.
For example, imagine if Dream Theater, after they had released Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, decided that they would only make albums with songs three-to-four minutes long that were all in 4/4 time. And from that point forward, that was the base, with some forays into the past ever so briefly. Don't tell me that 80 percent of the fan base would be pissed. Of course we would. Would we all still buy what was labeled "Dream Theater?" Yes, I am sure many would, as a "brand" is more powerful than a "band" and many of us illustrate that (all of us, really, I am sure have bought albums because it was under a band name and we expected a certain thing).
Bottom line, Metallica may not have abandoned metal, but most of their post-AJFA material, including Death Magnetic, has only echoes of thrash metal. And those songs that do harken back to that style are extremely subpar (subjective, yes) with the material from KEA-AJFA. For me, personally, this is fact. And I am sure, if pressed, any of you being objective would likely say that too.
Now, that doesn't mean the material isn't good - of course some of it very much is. Off the top of my head, Bleeding Me, Outlaw Torn, Fixxer, Spit Out the Bone, a bunch of tracks immediately come to mind post-Black album. I could name a bunch more. But how does a band abandon the style of music they originated? It's baffling to me. I'm all for experimentation. But the "base sound" of a band, IMO, should never be abandoned, particularly for a genre-defining band like Metallica.
Anyway, those that are really diggin' 72 Seasons, very cool. I like Kirk's work on the record. His most inspired in years, lead-wise.
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Count me in as being one of the crowd who was very disappointed when the black album first came out. However, now that I’m 53, I definitely see that I was being extremely close minded at the time. I still feel like they went from trend setters to trend followers. As Samsara pointed out, they had basically invented a new style of music. But with the black album, they started borrowing from old tried and true ideas in order to make heavy music appeal to a broader audience. It did feel a little bit like they were no longer going to be inventing anything new anymore. But looking back, I can appreciate Samsara’s point that the model was unsustainable. This last week, I threw all of my post black album material into my music player and the songs are coming up on shuffle bit by bit and I’m finding that I can appreciate it exactly for what it is. It is a metal band trying to do something different. And that really makes me appreciate it a lot more looking back. I’m getting a whole fresh new perspective on the two load albums, as well as St anger and the newer stuff. I guess I’m just appreciating more and more that these guys are still together and still doing the best they can to create. I don’t think that they are phoning it in. I do think that there’s a difference between the art you create when you’re hungry and the art you create when you’re just sitting around and having a blast. This sounds like the latter.
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This last week, I threw all of my post black album material into my music player and the songs are coming up on shuffle bit by bit and I’m finding that I can appreciate it exactly for what it is. It is a metal band trying to do something different. And that really makes me appreciate it a lot more looking back. I’m getting a whole fresh new perspective on the two load albums, as well as St anger and the newer stuff. I guess I’m just appreciating more and more that these guys are still together and still doing the best they can to create. I don’t think that they are phoning it in. I do think that there’s a difference between the art you create when you’re hungry and the art you create when you’re just sitting around and having a blast. This sounds like the latter.
I understood that sentiment when Load came out - I was 16, and every other metalhead in high school turned on the band. But I knew what they were doing. I felt like I was the lone defender!
When I want full-on thrash, I'll put on Kreator, Death Angel, Testament or Exodus, etc., since there are plenty of bands that still do it so well. I just don't expect it from Metallica, and when they do it (Spit Out the Bone), it's a nice surprise and shows me that they still have it, but just choose to write what they want to.
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This last week, I threw all of my post black album material into my music player and the songs are coming up on shuffle bit by bit and I’m finding that I can appreciate it exactly for what it is. It is a metal band trying to do something different. And that really makes me appreciate it a lot more looking back. I’m getting a whole fresh new perspective on the two load albums, as well as St anger and the newer stuff. I guess I’m just appreciating more and more that these guys are still together and still doing the best they can to create. I don’t think that they are phoning it in. I do think that there’s a difference between the art you create when you’re hungry and the art you create when you’re just sitting around and having a blast. This sounds like the latter.
I understood that sentiment when Load came out - I was 16, and every other metalhead in high school turned on the band. But I knew what they were doing. I felt like I was the lone defender!
When I want full-on thrash, I'll put on Kreator, Death Angel, Testament or Exodus, etc., since there are plenty of bands that still do it so well. I just don't expect it from Metallica, and when they do it (Spit Out the Bone), it's a nice surprise and shows me that they still have it, but just choose to write what they want to.
Is odd for me who saw them on Kill em all to Black, id not say it was a hunger gone issue, it was more they were trying to stretch their appeal and just kinda "slowed" it down a tad. for as much as RTL was my fav album for a few years back t then I dont go back to it that often and the new album really scratches the itch of what I want when I want Metallica. Its sorta the same thing with me with QR I was always happy with the new Cd as the matured and never said" I just want more of the same" granted Metallica kinda does their thing and to me doesnt go far outside their box but makes it fresher and more sonic and IMO more sweet in my ear
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Friends,
Regarding my post, I didn't mean to rile folks up at all. If you enjoy what you enjoy, that's obviously all that matters. So all of this is my subjective take on Metallica's music.
I guess, for me, it comes down to this:
Metallica were basically the originators of the subgenre of thrash metal (yes, I know arguments can be made pro and con, but to me, they are, and I'm rolling with it). They did that style for four albums, getting faster and more complicated all the way through AJFA. The point of their music was to be faster and heavier than everyone. And while that, over time, is unsustainable (which I understand), if you stop playing the subgenre of music you created (or defined), it's confusing.
For example, imagine if Dream Theater, after they had released Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, decided that they would only make albums with songs three-to-four minutes long that were all in 4/4 time. And from that point forward, that was the base, with some forays into the past ever so briefly. Don't tell me that 80 percent of the fan base would be pissed. Of course we would. Would we all still buy what was labeled "Dream Theater?" Yes, I am sure many would, as a "brand" is more powerful than a "band" and many of us illustrate that (all of us, really, I am sure have bought albums because it was under a band name and we expected a certain thing).
Rush.
Ritchie Blackmore.
Genesis.
King Crimson.
Peter Gabriel.
Robert Plant.
Iron Maiden (post reunion)
Bottom line, Metallica may not have abandoned metal, but most of their post-AJFA material, including Death Magnetic, has only echoes of thrash metal. And those songs that do harken back to that style are extremely subpar (subjective, yes) with the material from KEA-AJFA. For me, personally, this is fact. And I am sure, if pressed, any of you being objective would likely say that too.
No, we would not, Wild Ranger. (I kid, I kid). KEA is juvenile, IMO. I know others here love it, but in terms of the overall catalogue, it is very much a "you had to be there" record. Again, the "James singing down a concrete pipe" vocal stylings are not at all "better" than what came after. "The Unforgiven" and "Nothing Else Matters" are MUCH more mature, intimate works, to my ears, than anything on either RtL or MoP.
Now, that doesn't mean the material isn't good - of course some of it very much is. Off the top of my head, Bleeding Me, Outlaw Torn, Fixxer, Spit Out the Bone, a bunch of tracks immediately come to mind post-Black album. I could name a bunch more. But how does a band abandon the style of music they originated? It's baffling to me. I'm all for experimentation. But the "base sound" of a band, IMO, should never be abandoned, particularly for a genre-defining band like Metallica.
Because they are artists. They CREATE. No one lives a static life to begin with, let alone people that are already living outside of the general rules and constraints of society. Why did Genesis and Rush abandon the album-side length opus in 1972/1978 respectively, never to return to it?
You know, one side observation... it's fascinating to me how many musical artists move in THAT direction, from sort of finding their way, finding a genre, to wanting to be better craftsmen, better songwriters. You don't often see the opposite, great songwriters abandoning that to sort of knowingly and willingly "create genres". I personally think that has to do with the connectivity of music; why else make music if you're not going to connect with people?
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General question to the group: Why is it so bad that an artist wants to connect with people? Isn't that the whole point of creating art? To speak to people? James has particularly been very clear over the years that that was the intent of The Black Album, not selling out or selling records, but connecting his band with his audience. And he's said that becuase there are four members with four points of view, he went inward.
I mean, I'm not 18 anymore. "Master Of Puppets" has no relevance for me anymore. But "The God That Failed"? Raise your hand if you haven't had a loved one die. "Nothing Else Matters"? Raise your hand if you have someone you care about and you've had to make sacrifices for? These are cosmic themes, and James is connecting like few artists ever have. Not sure why that is being looked down on so consistently.
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General question to the group: Why is it so bad that an artist wants to connect with people? Isn't that the whole point of creating art? To speak to people? James has particularly been very clear over the years that that was the intent of The Black Album, not selling out or selling records, but connecting his band with his audience. And he's said that becuase there are four members with four points of view, he went inward.
I mean, I'm not 18 anymore. "Master Of Puppets" has no relevance for me anymore. But "The God That Failed"? Raise your hand if you haven't had a loved one die. "Nothing Else Matters"? Raise your hand if you have someone you care about and you've had to make sacrifices for? These are cosmic themes, and James is connecting like few artists ever have. Not sure why that is being looked down on so consistently.
It's not the lyrical content, it's the actual music. Precision thrash metal played at a blistering speed, and a monstrous live presence (see Seattle '89) that then gets tampered down into simpler, more radio-friendly heavy metal. It's the antithesis of everything Metallica stood for at the time, relying on word of mouth and the power of live shows, and in 1991. they become radio friendly and MTV darlings. They weren't the cool, underground band anymore, they were trendy and your classmates' little sisters all now liked the band, despite the years of wearing their back-patch on your jean jacket as a sign of loyalty. Load pushed them even further away from those fans, and they cut their hair too!
Thrash metal fans are very much a "stay-in-your-lane-or-die" kind of fan and Samsara has held this opinion about Metallica for a while, and I agree with him at times, but I'm not as hard on Metallica as he is. He has more of a hard-on for being hard on them. :lol
And I agree with you about James' lyrics in the 90's - I LOVE them and connect with them much more.
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General question to the group: Why is it so bad that an artist wants to connect with people? Isn't that the whole point of creating art? To speak to people? James has particularly been very clear over the years that that was the intent of The Black Album, not selling out or selling records, but connecting his band with his audience. And he's said that becuase there are four members with four points of view, he went inward.
I mean, I'm not 18 anymore. "Master Of Puppets" has no relevance for me anymore. But "The God That Failed"? Raise your hand if you haven't had a loved one die. "Nothing Else Matters"? Raise your hand if you have someone you care about and you've had to make sacrifices for? These are cosmic themes, and James is connecting like few artists ever have. Not sure why that is being looked down on so consistently.
Raise your hand if you've ever dealt with the intense anger and frustration that comes along with the inherent bureaucracy involved in setting up an LLC entitled Damage Incorporated.
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General question to the group: Why is it so bad that an artist wants to connect with people? Isn't that the whole point of creating art? To speak to people? James has particularly been very clear over the years that that was the intent of The Black Album, not selling out or selling records, but connecting his band with his audience. And he's said that becuase there are four members with four points of view, he went inward.
I mean, I'm not 18 anymore. "Master Of Puppets" has no relevance for me anymore. But "The God That Failed"? Raise your hand if you haven't had a loved one die. "Nothing Else Matters"? Raise your hand if you have someone you care about and you've had to make sacrifices for? These are cosmic themes, and James is connecting like few artists ever have. Not sure why that is being looked down on so consistently.
My complaint with TBA is that the music became super basic and much less interesting. If Hetfield's intent with TBA was to connect his band with his audience, I don't think he did a good job. On the other hand, he did a great job of connecting his band with a completely new and different audience.
Master of Puppets (the song) never had "relevance" for me. I've never done cocaine and have never been addicted to any drug or alcohol. The God That Failed is about a woman who could have been saved with resort to proper medical care but refused that care because of a belief that prayer is the only medicine. It's very specific and isn't generically about the loss of a loved one. It's never connected with me any more than MOP - even when my 39yo sister died of colon cancer and my father-in-law-to-be died from AIDS a few years after TBA was released. NEM? It's fine always has been. As I'm sure I wrote when we did the countdown, it's sappy and simple, but it's a nice little song.
Raise your hand if you've ever dealt with the intense anger and frustration that comes along with the inherent bureaucracy involved in setting up an LLC entitled Damage Incorporated.
Come on...Damage Incorporated, LLC? Set it up as an s-corp. :biggrin:
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Metal is a young (angry) man’s game.
They spent their entire 20s locked up in hotel rooms and tour buses listening to their influences/peers and playing music. But It’s not 1986 anymore; they aren’t going to go back to that mindset, and in their late 50s/early 60s, they aren’t going to be coming up with anything groundbreaking or genre defining. Even Zeppelin kinda went to shit after 6-7 years. The fact that they had such a great run in the first place is a miracle and why Metallica Inc is a billion dollar operation- MOST bands have 1-2 albums of creativity in them (if any at all). As much as we want them to be, they are no longer creative at a high level.
They don’t have “it” anymore- and that’s okay.
But all this implies they flamed out decades ago. I don't agree with this assessment. "Not what I like" DOESN'T MEAN "crap" or lack of creativity. I find the Load records far more "creative" in the sense of exploration than either Master of Puppets or Ride the Lightning. (And to your example of Zeppelin, their best record was their sixth, put out in their seventh year).
I really, really am not following this idea that the CREATIVE people we like - that we feel have broken down doors of genre and style - are then supposed to just freeze themselves forever and never push another envelope for decades.
My point was less to do with their change in music styles and more just a comment on the “creative shelf life” of four dudes 40 years into their career. If you’re expecting groundbreaking work, you’re in for disappointment. And I like Load/Reload too but that was over 25 years ago and they haven’t touched that level of quality since. They are certainly free to explore whatever musical avenues they choose, but whatever magic/flame/creative lightning in a bottle they once had is long gone. And that’s to be expected this far along in their career.
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I hear both sides, "I loved the style I knew them for" and "I dig the new course they undertook".
It's a case by case thing with every band that changes, there's not a perfect formula to apply for every evolving band. In the specific case of Metallica, expecting a trash metal album after what their carrer has been in the last 30+ years should, to put it mildly, considered unrealistic.
I tried to enjoy them for what they were at a point in time, and not for what they weren't, or what they aren't anymore; I happened to be indifferent to Death Magnetic and surpisingly like a lot Hardwired. That was my benchmark, not Master or Ride, I just wanted from this album something as good as Spit Out the Bone or Halo on Fire, and so far I haven't found it, let's see what the future listenings will bring.
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Metal is a young (angry) man’s game.
They spent their entire 20s locked up in hotel rooms and tour buses listening to their influences/peers and playing music. But It’s not 1986 anymore; they aren’t going to go back to that mindset, and in their late 50s/early 60s, they aren’t going to be coming up with anything groundbreaking or genre defining. Even Zeppelin kinda went to shit after 6-7 years. The fact that they had such a great run in the first place is a miracle and why Metallica Inc is a billion dollar operation- MOST bands have 1-2 albums of creativity in them (if any at all). As much as we want them to be, they are no longer creative at a high level.
They don’t have “it” anymore- and that’s okay.
But all this implies they flamed out decades ago. I don't agree with this assessment. "Not what I like" DOESN'T MEAN "crap" or lack of creativity. I find the Load records far more "creative" in the sense of exploration than either Master of Puppets or Ride the Lightning. (And to your example of Zeppelin, their best record was their sixth, put out in their seventh year).
I really, really am not following this idea that the CREATIVE people we like - that we feel have broken down doors of genre and style - are then supposed to just freeze themselves forever and never push another envelope for decades.
My point was less to do with their change in music styles and more just a comment on the “creative shelf life” of four dudes 40 years into their career. If you’re expecting groundbreaking work, you’re in for disappointment. And I like Load/Reload too but that was over 25 years ago and they haven’t touched that level of quality since. They are certainly free to explore whatever musical avenues they choose, but whatever magic/flame/creative lightning in a bottle they once had is long gone. And that’s to be expected this far along in their career.
While maybe expected, it does make me ask, how does Iron Maiden continue to do it? There are examples, although much rarer to see, when older bands do still have the ability to create new and interesting music expanding upon their previous works. That's more of the exception than the rule, but one can still hope Metallica could do that again. It's clearly not this album though.
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While maybe expected, it does make me ask, how does Iron Maiden continue to do it? There are examples, although much rarer to see, when older bands do still have the ability to create new and interesting music expanding upon their previous works. That's more of the exception than the rule, but one can still hope Metallica could do that again. It's clearly not this album though.
I know this is just my personal opinion but I feel like Iron Maiden only continues to do it at a level we consider “good” when it’s compared to their peers who are now so mediocre. Not necessarily good compared to their glory days in the 80s.
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This last week, I threw all of my post black album material into my music player and the songs are coming up on shuffle bit by bit and I’m finding that I can appreciate it exactly for what it is. It is a metal band trying to do something different. And that really makes me appreciate it a lot more looking back. I’m getting a whole fresh new perspective on the two load albums, as well as St anger and the newer stuff. I guess I’m just appreciating more and more that these guys are still together and still doing the best they can to create. I don’t think that they are phoning it in. I do think that there’s a difference between the art you create when you’re hungry and the art you create when you’re just sitting around and having a blast. This sounds like the latter.
This post is gold right here. And I want to add that I can, and have done the same thing. And I share the same sentiment. No, they aren't hungry. Haven't been since AJFA/TBA. But what we have now is a Metallica that is creating art they dig at their leisure, with no pressure. And while it isn't as heavy, intense or creative (IMO) as years past, it's not "bad" by any stretch. I appreciate where they are. I just don't like it as much as what they were.
JD - I love the way you articulate things.
You know, one side observation... it's fascinating to me how many musical artists move in THAT direction, from sort of finding their way, finding a genre, to wanting to be better craftsmen, better songwriters. You don't often see the opposite, great songwriters abandoning that to sort of knowingly and willingly "create genres". I personally think that has to do with the connectivity of music; why else make music if you're not going to connect with people?
I don't think Metallica are better songwriters. I think they are worse songwriters. Their work was much more driven and refined when they were younger. What I hear now is indulgence and repetitiveness, due to a more laissez-faire situation. The result is music that is arguably bloated and less dynamic.
General question to the group: Why is it so bad that an artist wants to connect with people? Isn't that the whole point of creating art? To speak to people? James has particularly been very clear over the years that that was the intent of The Black Album, not selling out or selling records, but connecting his band with his audience. And he's said that becuase there are four members with four points of view, he went inward.
I mean, I'm not 18 anymore. "Master Of Puppets" has no relevance for me anymore. But "The God That Failed"? Raise your hand if you haven't had a loved one die. "Nothing Else Matters"? Raise your hand if you have someone you care about and you've had to make sacrifices for? These are cosmic themes, and James is connecting like few artists ever have. Not sure why that is being looked down on so consistently.
So much to unpack here. Not sure if I have time to do it properly. It's never bad when an artist wants to connect with people. That's the point, absolutely. Speaking for myself, I don't find TBA to be objectionable. I think every artist then did the same thing on a musical level. But, IMO, Metallica never really recovered musically. Whereas Megadeth, Testament, Death Angel, etc., all eventually did. Lyrically, I think a lot of the territory visited by Metallica through their entire catalog has been solid. But Stads, I mean, saying "Master of Puppets" has no relevancy for you any longer? I mean, most lyrics from youth don't. Doesn't matter the band. But at least for me, I can still listen to lyrics that I don't identify with any longer, and still be entertained or engaged. The thing for me is the combination. And that's where newer Metallica fails for me. For every interesting lyric they now write, musically the song is less interesting.
It's not about the connection/message, at least for me. For me, it's about post-AJFA Metallica's musicality, and how that has been stagnant in comparison to the lyrical themes used for connection. Again, totally subjective.
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Thanks Samsara! :coolio :millahhhh
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General question to the group: Why is it so bad that an artist wants to connect with people? Isn't that the whole point of creating art? To speak to people? James has particularly been very clear over the years that that was the intent of The Black Album, not selling out or selling records, but connecting his band with his audience. And he's said that becuase there are four members with four points of view, he went inward.
I mean, I'm not 18 anymore. "Master Of Puppets" has no relevance for me anymore. But "The God That Failed"? Raise your hand if you haven't had a loved one die. "Nothing Else Matters"? Raise your hand if you have someone you care about and you've had to make sacrifices for? These are cosmic themes, and James is connecting like few artists ever have. Not sure why that is being looked down on so consistently.
THIS ^
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You know, overall I've been so pleasantly surprised by the output of many "legacy" bands over the last decade. I've just reached a stage of life where I'm grateful to hear new music and I have learned that there's no point in comparing to past output. Listen with an open mind and like it or don't. Maiden ( minus Senjitsu), Priest, DT, Megadeth, Metallica...just to name a few, have made great music that I've connected with very late in their careers. It makes me happy.
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For me it's just kinda heartbreaking, hearing the most important band in my musical journey, play it safe, when they did anything BUT play it safe in the early days of their career.
I get it, they're over 40 years into said career, and they can do whatever the hell they want. I can still be disappointed in that though. Head over to the Metallica reddit and you'll hear some people declaring this is a masterpiece.
I don't think I can agree really. I'd argue the earlier days were the safest. RTL - Justice all followed the same formula. (Maybe the best formula in metal music to be fair). But after that it's been nothing but risk. Black Album threw that formula out the window. Then you have the run of Load-Reload-Covers Album-Symphony Gig- and ending with St. Anger. Add the Lou Reed record to that. Hard to find a band who has taken more risk after they reached the top.
DM played it safe for sure.
Hardwired and 72 feels like them just putting it all together and leaning into it. Does that make them better or worse? That's up to the listener.
As for r/Metallica.....well you've seen the place. It was always going to be a masterpiece.
I fully agree about them taking risks through the 90s, and up to St. Anger (arguably their biggest risk). The problem is that since then (which is now 20 years) they have taken little to no risk and are very formulaic. You are right about Lulu, that definitely was a bold move.
As I said before, I don't expect them to make a less formulaic album, they can do as they please, I just wish they would. The majority of fans are happy and that is what matters.
I'm kind of eager to hear James doing something on his own at this point in their career. Kirk's solo EP really surprised me, and I just want a Hetfield outlaw country album to be honest.
I totally get what you're saying. I can already see into the future and see the question asked that we've seen with Load/Reload. "If you could make Hardwired/72 into one album what songs would you choose?" Cause they are interchangeable. I guess because of the long time between albums though for me it doesn't seem tired yet and the new songs still have some freshness to them. That being said I've been having the same issue as you are having with Iron Maiden's last two albums. Feels like they are stuck in the same post reunion formula so I've become bored with it.
Agreed, although to my ears it could be argued 72 is the Reload of Hardwired.
LCArenas kinda touched on this above in that the two albums sound very similar in style etc yet Hardwired has the highlights. And I would take that a step further and suggest 72 sounds like leftovers from the Hardwired sessions.
Re-Wired?
Which I might add isn't necessarily a bad thing and personally really enjoying 72, but yeah ;)
The production being the same doesn't help.
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General question to the group: Why is it so bad that an artist wants to connect with people? Isn't that the whole point of creating art? To speak to people? James has particularly been very clear over the years that that was the intent of The Black Album, not selling out or selling records, but connecting his band with his audience. And he's said that becuase there are four members with four points of view, he went inward.
I mean, I'm not 18 anymore. "Master Of Puppets" has no relevance for me anymore. But "The God That Failed"? Raise your hand if you haven't had a loved one die. "Nothing Else Matters"? Raise your hand if you have someone you care about and you've had to make sacrifices for? These are cosmic themes, and James is connecting like few artists ever have. Not sure why that is being looked down on so consistently.
I often wonder if a lot of the criticism's that I see online about Metallica are due to the fact that they are getting older but the 80's albums keep bringing new younger listeners who are pissed off with the world like they were in the 80's who don't relate to the more recent output yet.
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I've always seen Metallica as different from a lot of their thrash peers. They always had a more melodic edge than many of the others. I mean they were accused of selling out on their 2nd album with Fade to Black. That record also has Escape and Bellz. Even Kill em All had slower stuff like Jump in the Fire and Seek. They never made a Reign in Blood styled short, all out thrash album, and I could never see them doing something like that. That more melodic edge has always been in their DNA. I don't think they ever really cared about being the fastest or heaviest.
Also, pretty much all of the 80's thrash bands, that were still around, tried something different in the 90's to varying degrees of success.
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There's a lot here about stylistic changes. I was going to say, I'm not bothered about that, as long as it's good. But I can't know what good is. Which just leaves "do I like it?"
Bah.
I like the style of 72S, but I wish it was a bit more gooderer, you know?
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Gotta say, I pretty much agree with everything Fantano says here...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs)
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Gotta say, I pretty much agree with everything Fantano says here...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs)
Fantano usually has some boneheaded takes on metal, but I do agree with him on this album.
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Gotta say, I pretty much agree with everything Fantano says here...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs)
I don't like fantano in many ways but he has a great way to convey his opinion on his main channel reviews whether you agree with him or not. I actually thought he was going to give 72 seasons a 3 or lower, since he's not much into "Traditional" less-experimental metal much, with few exceptions.
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General question to the group: Why is it so bad that an artist wants to connect with people? Isn't that the whole point of creating art? To speak to people? James has particularly been very clear over the years that that was the intent of The Black Album, not selling out or selling records, but connecting his band with his audience. And he's said that becuase there are four members with four points of view, he went inward.
I mean, I'm not 18 anymore. "Master Of Puppets" has no relevance for me anymore. But "The God That Failed"? Raise your hand if you haven't had a loved one die. "Nothing Else Matters"? Raise your hand if you have someone you care about and you've had to make sacrifices for? These are cosmic themes, and James is connecting like few artists ever have. Not sure why that is being looked down on so consistently.
My complaint with TBA is that the music became super basic and much less interesting. If Hetfield's intent with TBA was to connect his band with his audience, I don't think he did a good job. On the other hand, he did a great job of connecting his band with a completely new and different audience.
Interesting I think is a subjective opinion but I will agree with the sentiment that it became more basic, at least in song structure. Is the implication though that those songs are worse? Writing a simple song that does connect with people (and I think the streaming numbers can prove out that it connects with a large set of folks) is incredibly tough, especially songs with staying power.
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I don’t agree with the idea that writing music is to connect with an audience. Art is self expression.
To quote the Professor- “it was for me, not you, I came to write this song.”
At the risk of being ironic, I “connect” better with a song that I feel was written for the artist’s self expression, and not for my enjoyment.
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Gotta say, I pretty much agree with everything Fantano says here...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs)
Fantano usually has some boneheaded takes on metal, but I do agree with him on this album.
100% agree. I don't really care for him at all but I do agree here.
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I agree with Fantano, yet I'm enjoying this album. I subscribe to all his criticisms but I wouldn't rate it 5/10. More like 7/10 or 7.5/10 on a good day.
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I like Kirk's work on the record. His most inspired in years, lead-wise.
Any chance you could point to examples of this, please? Genuinely curious.
The problem for me is that so much of 72 Seasons sounds one-dimensional; most of it just sort of plods. The drums and solos really don't help, either. That said, there are songs I enjoy. In addtion to the singles, Too Far Gone?, Chasing Light and Inamorata aren't bad at all.
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Gotta say, I pretty much agree with everything Fantano says here...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs)
Never heard of this guy, who the hell is he? Someone famous?
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I've personally never heard of him but he does have 2.73 million subscribers so he's obviously successful at what he does.
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Gotta say, I pretty much agree with everything Fantano says here...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs)
Never heard of this guy, who the hell is he? Someone famous?
It's Buddyhunter1!
Also, Tim's hacked your account mate.
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Gotta say, I pretty much agree with everything Fantano says here...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs)
Never heard of this guy, who the hell is he? Someone famous?
It's Buddyhunter1!
Hey, I still have plenty of hair. For now...
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Gotta say, I pretty much agree with everything Fantano says here...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs)
Never heard of this guy, who the hell is he? Someone famous?
It's Buddyhunter1!
Hey, I still have plenty of hair. For now...
But other than that you're like two peas in a pod?
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Gotta say, I pretty much agree with everything Fantano says here...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPop6zKWUs)
Never heard of this guy, who the hell is he? Someone famous?
It's Buddyhunter1!
Hey, I still have plenty of hair. For now...
But other than that you're like two peas in a pod?
I still watch him regularly and I have discovered a good amount of bands through his videos (including King Gizzard), even though our tastes don't overlap all that much.
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General question to the group: Why is it so bad that an artist wants to connect with people? Isn't that the whole point of creating art? To speak to people? James has particularly been very clear over the years that that was the intent of The Black Album, not selling out or selling records, but connecting his band with his audience. And he's said that becuase there are four members with four points of view, he went inward.
I mean, I'm not 18 anymore. "Master Of Puppets" has no relevance for me anymore. But "The God That Failed"? Raise your hand if you haven't had a loved one die. "Nothing Else Matters"? Raise your hand if you have someone you care about and you've had to make sacrifices for? These are cosmic themes, and James is connecting like few artists ever have. Not sure why that is being looked down on so consistently.
My complaint with TBA is that the music became super basic and much less interesting. If Hetfield's intent with TBA was to connect his band with his audience, I don't think he did a good job. On the other hand, he did a great job of connecting his band with a completely new and different audience.
Interesting I think is a subjective opinion but I will agree with the sentiment that it became more basic, at least in song structure. Is the implication though that those songs are worse? Writing a simple song that does connect with people (and I think the streaming numbers can prove out that it connects with a large set of folks) is incredibly tough, especially songs with staying power.
To be clear, I'm not saying that "the music became super basic and, as a result, became much less interesting." It could have become super basic and more interesting (or as interesting). And, of course, it is or should be implied: "became much less interesting" to me. He obviously connected with a lot of people, though, and the success and impact of the album are inarguable.
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I agree with Fantano, yet I'm enjoying this album. I subscribe to all his criticisms but I wouldn't rate it 5/10. More like 7/10 or 7.5/10 on a good day.
Agree, on my review of the album I rated 7.8
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I like Kirk's work on the record. His most inspired in years, lead-wise.
Any chance you could point to examples of this, please? Genuinely curious.
The problem for me is that so much of 72 Seasons sounds one-dimensional; most of it just sort of plods. The drums and solos really don't help, either. That said, there are songs I enjoy. In addtion to the singles, Too Far Gone?, Chasing Light and Inamorata aren't bad at all.
Just his solos. I feel they fit the songs well. And to me, that's the mark of great lead playing.
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Metal is a young (angry) man’s game.
They spent their entire 20s locked up in hotel rooms and tour buses listening to their influences/peers and playing music. But It’s not 1986 anymore; they aren’t going to go back to that mindset, and in their late 50s/early 60s, they aren’t going to be coming up with anything groundbreaking or genre defining. Even Zeppelin kinda went to shit after 6-7 years. The fact that they had such a great run in the first place is a miracle and why Metallica Inc is a billion dollar operation- MOST bands have 1-2 albums of creativity in them (if any at all). As much as we want them to be, they are no longer creative at a high level.
They don’t have “it” anymore- and that’s okay.
But all this implies they flamed out decades ago. I don't agree with this assessment. "Not what I like" DOESN'T MEAN "crap" or lack of creativity. I find the Load records far more "creative" in the sense of exploration than either Master of Puppets or Ride the Lightning. (And to your example of Zeppelin, their best record was their sixth, put out in their seventh year).
I really, really am not following this idea that the CREATIVE people we like - that we feel have broken down doors of genre and style - are then supposed to just freeze themselves forever and never push another envelope for decades.
My point was less to do with their change in music styles and more just a comment on the “creative shelf life” of four dudes 40 years into their career. If you’re expecting groundbreaking work, you’re in for disappointment. And I like Load/Reload too but that was over 25 years ago and they haven’t touched that level of quality since. They are certainly free to explore whatever musical avenues they choose, but whatever magic/flame/creative lightning in a bottle they once had is long gone. And that’s to be expected this far along in their career.
I'm not sure how we measure "that level of quality", though. That's what I'm struggling with. I can't help read all these posts trying for some level of objectivity and all I keep hearing, like the teachers in Peanuts is "Wah wah wah wah wah I don't like it as much". I really don't get how some fat old guy in Connecticut is in any position to say "this is more" or "this is less" quality. Maybe it's just me, in that I didn't see a lot of quality back then to begin with (with the first four records), but still. There are so many factors that go into "tapping into a zeitgeist" that music is almost beside the point. Look at the Beatles.
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Maybe it's just me, in that I didn't see a lot of quality back then to begin with (with the first four records), but still. There are so many factors that go into "tapping into a zeitgeist" that music is almost beside the point.
Zeitgeist is a good term to use.
One of the reasons my friends and I got heavy into bands like Dream Theater in the mid to late-90s is frankly we saw the output of Metallica, Megadeth, as becoming predictable, formulaic, safe, radio friendly Dad Rock (not that the term existed back then), and we had to look further for other bands that pushed the technical edge. When you are playing at the VFW or battle of the bands in 1997, nobody wants to hear King Nothing or 9 minutes of Bleeding Me. I'm positive there were a lot of the other metal fans that where the same age (14-18) went the same direction.
I have a greater appreciation for some of that music now as I've aged, but I go to other metal albums from that era (such as "Great Southern Trendkill") to provide a stronger sense of nostalgia, memories and to remember what my view of the musical world was at the time.
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Stads,
None of this is going to be objective. You KNOW that. :lol
I mean, your statement about not much quality in the first four Metallica records is probably the hottest and frankly, ridiculous take I've ever heard from you (and I've heard many now from you over the years!). :rollin (all said while laughing, my friend)
But the point is, if you're searching for objectivity, you won't find it. I think we can all agree (maybe) that Metallica were at their hungriest from Kill Em All through And Justice for All. Then they made a very risky album, and it paid off by exposing them to worldwide audience who weren't just metal fans (particularly thrash). And since then, they've had the ability to just make music when they want, and aren't desperate, hungry, or driven. And those qualities, at least for me, are important ones in the type of music "Metallica" makes. And they just aren't those things any longer. And that has impacted the type of music they produce. And in turn, that's really where the subjective nature of the conversation begins, right? Once they were no longer hungry, how did the loss of those elements that I just mentioned above impact the music. Clearly, we all hear it differently.
I just want to objectively say, however, that Stads has the hottest off-kilter takes on DTF. Come at me, bro. :lol
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I just want to objectively say, however, that Stads has the hottest off-kilter takes on DTF. Come at me, bro. :lol
He'll tell you Lulu is better than Justice, with a straight face
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I just want to objectively say, however, that Stads has the hottest off-kilter takes on DTF. Come at me, bro. :lol
He'll tell you Lulu is better than Justice, with a straight face
Probably that St. Anger is way better than Puppets too.
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I think we can all agree (maybe) that Metallica were at their hungriest from Kill Em All through And Justice for All. Then they made a very risky album, and it paid off by exposing them to worldwide audience who weren't just metal fans (particularly thrash). And since then, they've had the ability to just make music when they want, and aren't desperate, hungry, or driven. And those qualities, at least for me, are important ones in the type of music "Metallica" makes. And they just aren't those things any longer. And that has impacted the type of music they produce. And in turn, that's really where the subjective nature of the conversation begins, right? Once they were no longer hungry, how did the loss of those elements that I just mentioned above impact the music. Clearly, we all hear it differently.
I don't think I agree with the bolded statement. Or at least, even if true, I don't think it's the determining factor when comparing the kinds of music they have made at different times.
During that period, they were definitely at their YOUNGEST. And then, having conquered the world, the EXACT kind of musical output that they wanted to create changed. Hell, my output has changed quite a bit since I was in my teens and twenties, as well.
They made one style when they were teenagers. Then they grew up. They still make loud, heavy, fast music. Is it as fast as it used to be? No, and neither am I. But to say they aren't hungry or driven seems like assuming an awful lot. They are definitely older, and the problems they have to deal with outside of music are older people's problems. They also aren't drinking a case of Jack Daniels and snorting coke off of hooker's asses every night anymore, which probably also had something to do with their music as well.
They are just different people now. If they were still making the exact same kind of stuff now, it would be really weird, IMO.
But yeah, Stads's opinions are really weird. On that we can agree. :lol
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I haven’t listened to Lulu since it came out. From what I DO remember, Junior Dad was amazing and almost worth the price of admission by itself. The rest was…jarring at best. It was just a pairing that did not work. Lou Reed was not doing his best work AT ALL and Metallica is throwing in some (IMO) pretty cool riffs that attempt to prop up Lou Reed’s dead delivery the way Andrew McCarthy and Jonathan Silverman prop up Terry Kiser in Weekend at Bernie’s. (At times with similarly hilarious results)
I’d have to hear it again though. I’ve been thinking of looking for it on the used rack and seeing if I could pick it up cheap.
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I don't like Lou Reed at all, so I have never and will likely never listen to Lulu.
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Question about Lulu, which I have never heard a lick of..
Did Metallica have any hand in the writing of the music, or were they handed basically finished songs to simply play along to?
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I have never listened to Lulu and don't see much of a reason to bother
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Question about Lulu, which I have never heard a lick of..
Did Metallica have any hand in the writing of the music, or were they handed basically finished songs to simply play along to?
Wikipedia sayeth: "All lyrics are written by Lou Reed; all music is composed by Reed and Metallica."
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Best thing to come from Lulu is "I am the table" which is used for Botchamania videos.
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I gave Lulu a shot a while back. The opening line is Lou Reed saying “I would cut my legs and tits off when I think of Boris Karloff and Kinski” and that’s as far as I got.
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Stads,
None of this is going to be objective. You KNOW that. :lol
I mean, your statement about not much quality in the first four Metallica records is probably the hottest and frankly, ridiculous take I've ever heard from you (and I've heard many now from you over the years!). :rollin (all said while laughing, my friend)
But the point is, if you're searching for objectivity, you won't find it. I think we can all agree (maybe) that Metallica were at their hungriest from Kill Em All through And Justice for All. Then they made a very risky album, and it paid off by exposing them to worldwide audience who weren't just metal fans (particularly thrash). And since then, they've had the ability to just make music when they want, and aren't desperate, hungry, or driven. And those qualities, at least for me, are important ones in the type of music "Metallica" makes. And they just aren't those things any longer. And that has impacted the type of music they produce. And in turn, that's really where the subjective nature of the conversation begins, right? Once they were no longer hungry, how did the loss of those elements that I just mentioned above impact the music. Clearly, we all hear it differently.
I just want to objectively say, however, that Stads has the hottest off-kilter takes on DTF. Come at me, bro. :lol
Well, I like what I like. And I spend zero time - well, that's not really true but close - considering whether my "likes" have any objective merit or not. I don't CARE whether people like Kiss or not, I do. I love them. They make me feel good and I relate to a lot of their message (even if some of it is retconned at this point).
For clarity, though, what I meant with that comment about quality is "relative to what came after". I've made no bones about Hetfield's singing on those first four records. When HE started to SING, is when Metallica matured for me. THAT was when they started to make more refined, more nuanced music IMO. I jokingly refer to it as "singing down a concrete pipe", but I DO mean it to not be a complement. I really think that Load might actually be my favorite Metallica record. Hardwired is up there as well.
And for the record:
- I've never heard Lulu all the way through.
- I think AJFA is the second best of the first four records (RtL, AJFA, MoP, KEA).
- St. Anger blows, and is NOT better than Master of Puppets. :)
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We love ya Stads. All in good fun my man.
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We love ya Stads. All in good fun my man.
I took no offense (I probably should have put more emojis in my last post! :) :) :))
I'm used to it by now; I forget what it was - might have been our ten favorite Kiss songs - but LITERALLY TAC and I had like opposite lists. :)
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I really think that Load might actually be my favorite Metallica record. Hardwired is up there as well.
And for the record:
- I've never heard Lulu all the way through.
- I think AJFA is the second best of the first four records (RtL, AJFA, MoP, KEA).
- St. Anger blows, and is NOT better than Master of Puppets. :)
Love these takes! Load is excellent.
72S is growing on me more and more.
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Sea Of Tranquility Review..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH5a50RWBus
Spoiler: Pete doesn't like the packaging.
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If you want to hear a modern Metallica album where it sounds like Hetfield is sharing the lead vocals with Grandpa Simpson, then Lulu is for you.
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Sea Of Tranquility Review..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH5a50RWBus
Spoiler: Pete doesn't like the packaging.
I agree with Pete on a lot of stuff but he has really been missing the mark on some album reviews lately . . . 72 Seasons is way better than he thinks.
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Is it just me? I can barely get through two minutes of these things. Bo-ring.
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Is it just me? I can barely get through two minutes of these things. Bo-ring.
I don't care for them either
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I've given 72 Seasons a third listen today. Lux Æterna is easily my favourite song on the album at this point, followed by Inamorata (mainly because it feels different from the test of the album and goes in a different direction than expected, at least for me). I couldn't see myself returning to these songs, even if not the whole album.
There are also small sections I like in You Must Burn!.and Room of Mirrors. They may grow a bit more but at the moment they are just slightly more appealing than the rest.
As for the rest of the album. I find it too samey and just a drag. I'd probably say it's slightly better than Hardwired, but I know I never connected with that record at all.
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I still havent even gotten the album. After a couple streams last week, I just haven't had the desire to listen to it again. I really should though and I do want to give it more chances, it's just that I'd rather listen to something else right now.
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Stads, I do have a question for you. I've been coming here for decades and seen countless posts from you. I agree with some, disagree with others. Totally cool. Where do you actually stand on thrash music? I'm sure I could go back through threads to figure this out. But, I'm feeling lazy. ;D Just trying to figure out more of your general mindset towards Metallica's music. If you weren't a fan of thrash, it would totally make sense that you didn't really care for Metallica's material until the Black Album. Then again, there's a big difference between a 23 year old Hetfield and 28 year old Hetfield in terms of vocal maturity, even if you take Bob Rock out of the equation.
For me, the Load era albums fall into the same kinda category as VHIII or Motley Crue '94. Yeah, they're the actual bands. But, they're really different bands - whether it's due to new members, maturity or whatever. And, it's tough to judge them the same as objectively as earlier material. I can totally appreciate and enjoy the Load album (Reload, not so much). But, personally, I'd rather listen to MoP for the millionth time over Load.
If you switched RtL and MoP in your list, I'd be in total agreement with you on the 1st 4.
As for KISS, I'm right there with you. They were my 1st favorite band, 1st concert. I absolutely love them. Dressed To Kill is my favorite album. Black Diamond is the best song they've ever written. But, I don't care for the Thayer/Singer albums. Doesn't have to do with them "impersonating" Ace and Peter. I just don't like the songs.
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I think we can all agree (maybe) that Metallica were at their hungriest from Kill Em All through And Justice for All. Then they made a very risky album, and it paid off by exposing them to worldwide audience who weren't just metal fans (particularly thrash). And since then, they've had the ability to just make music when they want, and aren't desperate, hungry, or driven. And those qualities, at least for me, are important ones in the type of music "Metallica" makes. And they just aren't those things any longer. And that has impacted the type of music they produce. And in turn, that's really where the subjective nature of the conversation begins, right? Once they were no longer hungry, how did the loss of those elements that I just mentioned above impact the music. Clearly, we all hear it differently.
I don't think I agree with the bolded statement. Or at least, even if true, I don't think it's the determining factor when comparing the kinds of music they have made at different times.
During that period, they were definitely at their YOUNGEST. And then, having conquered the world, the EXACT kind of musical output that they wanted to create changed. Hell, my output has changed quite a bit since I was in my teens and twenties, as well.
They made one style when they were teenagers. Then they grew up. They still make loud, heavy, fast music. Is it as fast as it used to be? No, and neither am I. But to say they aren't hungry or driven seems like assuming an awful lot. They are definitely older, and the problems they have to deal with outside of music are older people's problems. They also aren't drinking a case of Jack Daniels and snorting coke off of hooker's asses every night anymore, which probably also had something to do with their music as well.
They are just different people now. If they were still making the exact same kind of stuff now, it would be really weird, IMO.
But yeah, Stads's opinions are really weird. On that we can agree. :lol
I agree with you but I'll add aside from the 90's run they haven't exactly been slower than the first four records. Maybe the ratio of fast (thrash) songs vs mid tempo songs on their albums have changed.
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I think we can all agree (maybe) that Metallica were at their hungriest from Kill Em All through And Justice for All. Then they made a very risky album, and it paid off by exposing them to worldwide audience who weren't just metal fans (particularly thrash). And since then, they've had the ability to just make music when they want, and aren't desperate, hungry, or driven. And those qualities, at least for me, are important ones in the type of music "Metallica" makes. And they just aren't those things any longer. And that has impacted the type of music they produce. And in turn, that's really where the subjective nature of the conversation begins, right? Once they were no longer hungry, how did the loss of those elements that I just mentioned above impact the music. Clearly, we all hear it differently.
I don't think I agree with the bolded statement. Or at least, even if true, I don't think it's the determining factor when comparing the kinds of music they have made at different times.
During that period, they were definitely at their YOUNGEST. And then, having conquered the world, the EXACT kind of musical output that they wanted to create changed. Hell, my output has changed quite a bit since I was in my teens and twenties, as well.
They made one style when they were teenagers. Then they grew up. They still make loud, heavy, fast music. Is it as fast as it used to be? No, and neither am I. But to say they aren't hungry or driven seems like assuming an awful lot. They are definitely older, and the problems they have to deal with outside of music are older people's problems. They also aren't drinking a case of Jack Daniels and snorting coke off of hooker's asses every night anymore, which probably also had something to do with their music as well.
They are just different people now. If they were still making the exact same kind of stuff now, it would be really weird, IMO.
But yeah, Stads's opinions are really weird. On that we can agree. :lol
I agree with you but I'll add aside from the 90's run they haven't exactly been slower than the first four records. Maybe the ratio of fast (thrash) songs vs mid tempo songs on their albums have changed.
:tup
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It never ceases to amaze me how vastly we all differ when it comes to connecting or not connecting with music. This is the truth; I'm blown away by this album. Absolutely love it! Each song grabs me by the balls. Though it's early, I feel confident that it will surpass Hardwired as my favorite Metallica album.
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Stads, I do have a question for you. I've been coming here for decades and seen countless posts from you. I agree with some, disagree with others. Totally cool. Where do you actually stand on thrash music? I'm sure I could go back through threads to figure this out. But, I'm feeling lazy. ;D Just trying to figure out more of your general mindset towards Metallica's music. If you weren't a fan of thrash, it would totally make sense that you didn't really care for Metallica's material until the Black Album. Then again, there's a big difference between a 23 year old Hetfield and 28 year old Hetfield in terms of vocal maturity, even if you take Bob Rock out of the equation.
For me, the Load era albums fall into the same kinda category as VHIII or Motley Crue '94. Yeah, they're the actual bands. But, they're really different bands - whether it's due to new members, maturity or whatever. And, it's tough to judge them the same as objectively as earlier material. I can totally appreciate and enjoy the Load album (Reload, not so much). But, personally, I'd rather listen to MoP for the millionth time over Load.
If you switched RtL and MoP in your list, I'd be in total agreement with you on the 1st 4.
As for KISS, I'm right there with you. They were my 1st favorite band, 1st concert. I absolutely love them. Dressed To Kill is my favorite album. Black Diamond is the best song they've ever written. But, I don't care for the Thayer/Singer albums. Doesn't have to do with them "impersonating" Ace and Peter. I just don't like the songs.
It's a fair question; don't know that I've been asked that so directly before. I think of thrash the way I think of punk: interesting, of it's time, but a subgenre at best.
I started with Kiss, but in 1982, I got into Maiden and Priest. The Number Of The Beast is a sacred album for me (as is Holy Diver by Dio and Diary Of A Madman by Ozzy). That's when I started going to concerts. Bruce Dickinson is the first guy I ever saw sing live (they opened for Priest). I never heard Kill 'Em All, but my buddy got into Metallica with Ride, and he played it for me, and it was good, but... it didn't hold up to me against Piece of Mind and Last In Line. There was a lot of shitty metal out then - Heaven, stuff like that - and while I never ever thought RtL was "shitty", it just didn't rise to the level of Dio and Maiden and Priest to me.
I'm a melody and vocal guy, as much as anything. So the chanting, "metal" singing never really worked for me; when I hear The Black Album and I heard SINGING, it was a revelation. I thought "these guys CAN do it, they CAN play".
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That's a really good take, and interesting to see where your head is at with things. I get it now.
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Stads, I do have a question for you. I've been coming here for decades and seen countless posts from you. I agree with some, disagree with others. Totally cool. Where do you actually stand on thrash music? I'm sure I could go back through threads to figure this out. But, I'm feeling lazy. ;D Just trying to figure out more of your general mindset towards Metallica's music. If you weren't a fan of thrash, it would totally make sense that you didn't really care for Metallica's material until the Black Album. Then again, there's a big difference between a 23 year old Hetfield and 28 year old Hetfield in terms of vocal maturity, even if you take Bob Rock out of the equation.
For me, the Load era albums fall into the same kinda category as VHIII or Motley Crue '94. Yeah, they're the actual bands. But, they're really different bands - whether it's due to new members, maturity or whatever. And, it's tough to judge them the same as objectively as earlier material. I can totally appreciate and enjoy the Load album (Reload, not so much). But, personally, I'd rather listen to MoP for the millionth time over Load.
If you switched RtL and MoP in your list, I'd be in total agreement with you on the 1st 4.
As for KISS, I'm right there with you. They were my 1st favorite band, 1st concert. I absolutely love them. Dressed To Kill is my favorite album. Black Diamond is the best song they've ever written. But, I don't care for the Thayer/Singer albums. Doesn't have to do with them "impersonating" Ace and Peter. I just don't like the songs.
It's a fair question; don't know that I've been asked that so directly before. I think of thrash the way I think of punk: interesting, of it's time, but a subgenre at best.
I started with Kiss, but in 1982, I got into Maiden and Priest. The Number Of The Beast is a sacred album for me (as is Holy Diver by Dio and Diary Of A Madman by Ozzy). That's when I started going to concerts. Bruce Dickinson is the first guy I ever saw sing live (they opened for Priest). I never heard Kill 'Em All, but my buddy got into Metallica with Ride, and he played it for me, and it was good, but... it didn't hold up to me against Piece of Mind and Last In Line. There was a lot of shitty metal out then - Heaven, stuff like that - and while I never ever thought RtL was "shitty", it just didn't rise to the level of Dio and Maiden and Priest to me.
I'm a melody and vocal guy, as much as anything. So the chanting, "metal" singing never really worked for me; when I hear The Black Album and I heard SINGING, it was a revelation. I thought "these guys CAN do it, they CAN play".
Love the bold, as this is also me.
However, on Metallica the first 4 albums are also sacred to me and far above anything else they have ever done. I do like songs here and there from each subsequent album but as a whole the albums post AJFA are very average.
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It's a fair question; don't know that I've been asked that so directly before. I think of thrash the way I think of punk: interesting, of it's time, but a subgenre at best.
I'm a melody and vocal guy, as much as anything. So the chanting, "metal" singing never really worked for me; when I hear The Black Album and I heard SINGING, it was a revelation. I thought "these guys CAN do it, they CAN play".
Thanks for the answer. Your explanation, as well as your Metallica views, make total sense to me now.
And, I totally get the "SINGING" comment, too. I like a lot of metal, love it, even. But, once you get to the extreme stuff with the cookie monster vocals, as good as the musicianship could be, I am totally out. Testament's Chuck Billy is a perfect example. I love their 'Low' and 'The Gathering' albums. They tether that fine line of almost going too far. I own their 'Demonic' album. But, most of that album is unlistenable. It's way too abrasive to my ears. It's impressive that he can do it. But, I don't care for it at all.
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It's a fair question; don't know that I've been asked that so directly before. I think of thrash the way I think of punk: interesting, of it's time, but a subgenre at best.
I started with Kiss, but in 1982, I got into Maiden and Priest. The Number Of The Beast is a sacred album for me (as is Holy Diver by Dio and Diary Of A Madman by Ozzy). That's when I started going to concerts. Bruce Dickinson is the first guy I ever saw sing live (they opened for Priest). I never heard Kill 'Em All, but my buddy got into Metallica with Ride, and he played it for me, and it was good, but... it didn't hold up to me against Piece of Mind and Last In Line. There was a lot of shitty metal out then - Heaven, stuff like that - and while I never ever thought RtL was "shitty", it just didn't rise to the level of Dio and Maiden and Priest to me.
I'm a melody and vocal guy, as much as anything. So the chanting, "metal" singing never really worked for me; when I hear The Black Album and I heard SINGING, it was a revelation. I thought "these guys CAN do it, they CAN play".
Just to interject on one point...well...maybe two. Metallica evidenced that they can play LONG before TBA. But the bigger point (one I've mentioned previously) is that I first heard Metallica when my best friend bought Ride the Lighting during one of our "let's just buy something random" visits to a local record store. We had roughly a 45 minute drive to high school our junior and senior years, and he really liked playing RTL on the commute. I, on the other hand, really hated it. Primarily, I let my distaste for Fight Fire with Fire affect the entire album, and I also didn't like Hetfield's singing. I thought he was just shouting and not singing. It wasn't until the summer after high school when I heard Creeping Death in a different context that I started to have a change of heart. I borrowed my friend's tape and gave it a more careful listen. I realized that James, while raw, really was singing and not just shouting. He certainly evolved from then to TBA, but he really could always sing well.
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Since we're kinda discussing unpopular Metallica opinions; I've been listening to Beyond Magnetic again and I think that's a great EP. Production on it is much better than Death Magnetic too.
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My unpopular opinion with Metallica was always that Load is a fantastic album. I would put it over Black Album, maybe even with a chance of getting into the top3 (not saying necessarily it would, but it would be close). It's a shame a lot of people dismiss Load and Reload due to the stylistic change but I think there's a lot of quality on both, but especially Load. I feel like the "there's too much filler" mostly applies to Reload because there's not much I would trim from Load honestly. Maybe it could be 2 songs shorter and you could pluck off one of the weaker songs in the second half, but even albums like Ride the Lightning or Black Album has that issue as well IMO. (Ride with Escape and Black Album has a few of them)
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I frickin love Load. I actually get a few hints of Load on the new album on a couple songs.
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Load will always have a special place in my heart because it's the album that got me into Metallica and then metal music in general. I think it's a great album, but clearly very different from the 80s stuff and even the black album.
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An interesting new interview with Kirk and James (Kerrang! Radio)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh7KkjyjbCQ
Kirk wishes there was more footage of Cliff around, for instance.
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It never ceases to amaze me how vastly we all differ when it comes to connecting or not connecting with music. This is the truth; I'm blown away by this album. Absolutely love it! Each song grabs me by the balls. Though it's early, I feel confident that it will surpass Hardwired as my favorite Metallica album.
One of my favorite things is where an album comes out that this forum will check out, like a new Metallica or Haken or DT I love coming here to read all the different takes.
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Listened to all but the last track on the way to work this morning.
A bunch of the tracks I've heard more than once, a few a ton of times by now, and a few this was the first time.
I'm really coming around on a lot of it, but there's a few songs I can do without. The first song I would immediately cut was Chasing Light. Shadows Follow is a song I didn't mind but I've heard it a few times and I can't remember it for the life of me. So probably cut that one too. I really enjoyed Crown of Barbed Wire, Too Far Gone and Room of Mirrors. I also really came around on 72 Seasons, If Darkness Had A Son and Screaming Suicide.
I think the guitar tone is really weak and while I enjoy hearing the bass, I wish Rob had a more thumpy powerful tone.
Obviously Kirk does nothing for me on this and Lars just sounds really lazy, but I can deal with that. But most of all, I'm surprised by how meh most of the verses are. James just feels like he's saying random phrases that may mean something but may not and the catchiness is often not there. The pre-choruses, choruses, and bridges are pretty great on a lot of these songs though.
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There’s a fine line between “lazy and sloppy”, and “organic and obviously not playing to a damn click track”
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⚠️ NEW VIDEO ⚠️ INAMORATA
“Longing for the day I’m free….”
Watch the video ➡️ http://youtu.be/hucsz2l8AFU
Directed by #JessCope
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Directed by #JessCope
Who?
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Directed by #JessCope
Who?
Yea. Is # his first name?
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I guess you know what a # is, is use on Social media a lot
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I guess you know what a # is, is use on Social media a lot
Yes. I’m just teasing a bit.
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I guess you know what a # is, is use on Social media a lot
I don't know why you'd put it in a post though. Is that how we talk now? ;D
Are you trying to generate traffic on the guy's social media?
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An interesting new interview with Kirk and James (Kerrang! Radio)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh7KkjyjbCQ
Kirk wishes there was more footage of Cliff around, for instance.
I watched that. Not heard Kirk for a while. He has much more of a messed up stoner vibe than I remember. 😁 James came across well, I thought.
The interviewer had a weird vibe for me (condescending almost?) but thought it was interesting what she said about gatekeepers and being a woman of colour in rock and metal.
It never ceases to amaze me how vastly we all differ when it comes to connecting or not connecting with music. This is the truth; I'm blown away by this album. Absolutely love it! Each song grabs me by the balls. Though it's early, I feel confident that it will surpass Hardwired as my favorite Metallica album.
One of my favorite things is where an album comes out that this forum will check out, like a new Metallica or Haken or DT I love coming here to read all the different takes.
Totally. :azn:
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I also really like Load, it’s one of their better albums for me together with Ride, Master and Black. Only when Cure starts the album’s second half is draggy.
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Load is an incredible album in general and it has some of the best and more mature Metallica compositions they've ever made in songs like The Outlaw Torn, Until it Sleeps or Bleeding Me, but it's not an incredible Metallica album.
Considering the time it got out, It was always going to be a disappointment to fans of both the direct, no-nonsense Thrash style of the 80s or the new fans that got into Metallica for their dynamic, Arena Heavy Metal sound of The Black Album.
I always listen to a Load song from time to time, but I never listen to, say, AJFA and then Load or viceversa. They are so different in moods that you don't really tend to listen to them back to back. That being said, Load is still a very admirable effort.
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I've been spinning the new album for a week and I like it quite a bit. It seems like they found a formula that works well with the last couple of albums, and they're coy enough to stick with it. The title track sets a great mood, If darkness had a son is a hit, and tracks like Crown of barbed wire and You must burn are subtle but filled with powerful riffs and melodies.
I'd rank the album just slightly behind Hardwired, though, because as good as the highlights are, there is no Halo on fire or Spit out the bone on here. Still much better than St. Anger, Load and Reload in my book, however.
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I guess you know what a # is, is use on Social media a lot
I don't know why you'd put it in a post though. Is that how we talk now? ;D
Are you trying to generate traffic on the guy's social media?
I'm going to take your post at face value.
Jess Cope is a woman who's well known in her own right. And she's also known for her work on various Steven Wilson projects. Check out the video to Steven Wilson's Routine for another wonderful example of her work. Her involvement with Steven Wilson led to Rob Trujillo recommending her to Metallica for a video on Hardwired (from memory, I think it was for Here Comes Revenge) and they obviously liked it enough to get her to do one for 72 Seasons, too.
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I guess you know what a # is, is use on Social media a lot
I don't know why you'd put it in a post though. Is that how we talk now? ;D
Are you trying to generate traffic on the guy's social media?
I'm going to take your post at face value.
Jess Cope is a woman who's well known in her own right and also for her work on various Steven Wilson projects. Check out the video to Steven Wilson's Routine for another wonderful example of her work.
Yeah, definitely at face value. I just found it odd to use the # in a post. It'd be one thing to say, the video was directed by Jess Cope who did such and such and I really like her work.
But I'm not checking out anything from Steven Wilson. ;D
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First proper listen of 72 Seasons tonight.
I will say overall I enjoyed it. It does feel a bit bloated though and I'm not sure why it had to be almost 80 minutes long. One issue I've had with pretty much every Metallica album starting with St. Anger is that the songs feel a bit too long, a bit too samey and after a while you almost start to zone out because it feels like the songs blend into each other a bit too much. Definitely felt a bit of that on the first listen.
Lux Aeterna was a pretty good pick for a first single and it's one of the songs I enjoyed the most here. If nothing else, it does a great job of doing something different and its placement on the album means it kinda comes in and shakes things up a bit.
Best song for me after 1 listen though: Inamorata. Did not expect the longest song to be the best because some of the 7 minute songs kinda dragged, but this honestly felt like a lost gem that could have been on Load or Reload - and I don't mean that in a bad way at all (as someone who loves Load and likes Reload a lot). It's maybe a shame that a lot of people will have tuned out by the time they get to it, because IMO it was the standout by a margin and a wonderful closer. One of my favorite Metallica songs since the 90s.
But yeah, hopefully a few more listens will help to separate some of the other songs that kinda blurred together.
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Cool to see Floor's solo band getting the nod to open for Metallica in replacement of Five Finger Death Punch who had to pull out of the first show of the tour in Amsterdam. I'd rather her open in NJ as well
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Best song for me after 1 listen though: Inamorata. Did not expect the longest song to be the best because some of the 7 minute songs kinda dragged, but this honestly felt like a lost gem that could have been on Load or Reload - and I don't mean that in a bad way at all (as someone who loves Load and likes Reload a lot). It's maybe a shame that a lot of people will have tuned out by the time they get to it, because IMO it was the standout by a margin and a wonderful closer. One of my favorite Metallica songs since the 90s.
But yeah, hopefully a few more listens will help to separate some of the other songs that kinda blurred together.
I agree. Part of the reason for that is the song just sounds so un-Metallica to me, yet the verse still sounds catchy enough. As I might have said before, Inamorata and Chasing Light are two of my favs and they are both GREAT driving songs along with 72 Seasons and Lux Aeterna.
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Best song for me after 1 listen though: Inamorata. Did not expect the longest song to be the best because some of the 7 minute songs kinda dragged, but this honestly felt like a lost gem that could have been on Load or Reload - and I don't mean that in a bad way at all (as someone who loves Load and likes Reload a lot). It's maybe a shame that a lot of people will have tuned out by the time they get to it, because IMO it was the standout by a margin and a wonderful closer. One of my favorite Metallica songs since the 90s.
But yeah, hopefully a few more listens will help to separate some of the other songs that kinda blurred together.
I agree. Part of the reason for that is the song just sounds so un-Metallica to me, yet the verse still sounds catchy enough.
I fully agree with this. I like Inamorata because it was the only song on the album that surprised me, and felt different to the rest. I also like Lux Æterna, as I've mentioned before, because it doesn't overstay it's welcome and it's channelling some NWOBHM :metal
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diggin this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOm8BUTvPQA&ab_channel=JimmyKimmelLive
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I guess you know what a # is, is use on Social media a lot
I don't know why you'd put it in a post though. Is that how we talk now? ;D
Are you trying to generate traffic on the guy's social media?
Exactly what I am trying to do.
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Going back to DT's "People just don't have the time for music anymore", my lukewarm initial reaction to the album coupled with the long running time always puts me off, and I've barely given it other spins. Floor Jansen's solo album is 34 minutes long and is easier to enjoy.
Now, make no mistake, I still love long albums and I've listened the sheet out of The Astonishing, both discs, it's just that in this specific situation not having so many things to look forward to make the prospect of listening to a 77 minutes album less interesting. Eventually I'll try to make room for it, I won't give up after so little listenings.
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I've listened 3 times now and every time I have liked it a bit more than the previous listen. I don't expect this album to climb that high in the Metallica rankings because at least half of their albums I like quite a lot, but overall for a band in their 60s I would say it's a decent effort.
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I'm enjoying this album quite a bit. Not anywhere near their others, in fact I'd say this is above DM and St. Anger for me and MAYBE tied with Hardwired. But I'm really digging a lot of it. I wish the lyrics were better, I wish the music was more diverse, I wish the songs were edited (that Jimmy Kimmel version of Darkness is a lot better because of the editing) and I wish the guitar tone was better. I also wish they had 2 less songs maybe. But overall a really good record that I'm hoping to continue to like more.
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Yeah, this one might be a 'grower,' which is real nice change of pace for me with recent metal releases.
Like most of you, I gave this an initial listen and thought it was a mixed bag replete with long songs and bloated arrangements.
But, with a massive 'finish the basement' project occupying my evenings over these past few weeks, I've come home each day after work and thought, "I think I'll give the new 'tallica another spin."
I still think the album has issues, but I'll be damned if I'm not totally enjoying it from cover-to-cover on a near-daily basis. Far more than Hardwired.
I was thinking last night that I remember having a similar relationship with AJFA some thirty years ago. I remember getting that record and, outside of "Blackened" and "One," feeling like the whole thing sounded like a poorly-produced, bloated mess. But, after months and months of re-listens, it eventually became the soundtrack to my middle-school years.
I'm not saying 72 Seasons is AJFA, but it's pretty cool that here, in my mid-40s, I am still having these sorts of experiences with Metallica albums. Kinda a testament to the band.
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I'm very much enjoying the album now, too. But I do think the drumming, drum sounds and guitar solos let it down.
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Continuing to enjoy more every listen. Very pleasantly surprised to feel like a (current) fan again!
I've accepted the things I wasn't digging initially.
The only nitpick I have left is that lowering the drums in the mix a teeny bit and raising the guitars and bass a squeak would let the guitars dominate a bit more in that big, beefy "classic" Metallica way.
But yeah, seems I'm back on the Metallibus! :o
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72 Seasons Live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqpmGEMGYa0&ab_channel=CristianGlobalOficial
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72 Seasons Live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqpmGEMGYa0&ab_channel=CristianGlobalOficial
Wait, is Rob doing that part on the official album too? Sounded good!
Curious to see what the setlist for the first two shows are. I believe the first is tonight.
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72 Seasons Live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqpmGEMGYa0&ab_channel=CristianGlobalOficial
Wait, is Rob doing that part on the official album too? Sounded good!
Curious to see what the setlist for the first two shows are. I believe the first is tonight.
It is - looks like they're onstage now, as Setlist FM is being updated as they play.
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The 29th is already filled out.
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Glad to see some people warming up to the album. I took a brief break and spun Hardwired again. Really love that one too. Then I spun RtL and oh my, what an extreme sonic difference between the new albums and the old ones.
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72 Seasons Live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqpmGEMGYa0&ab_channel=CristianGlobalOficial
Wait, is Rob doing that part on the official album too? Sounded good!
Curious to see what the setlist for the first two shows are. I believe the first is tonight.
I agree sounds good to me also
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Glad to see some people warming up to the album. I took a brief break and spun Hardwired again. Really love that one too. Then I spun RtL and oh my, what an extreme sonic difference between the new albums and the old ones.
Yup the new CD sounds so full, rounded out, sweet....
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72 Seasons Live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqpmGEMGYa0&ab_channel=CristianGlobalOficial
Wait, is Rob doing that part on the official album too? Sounded good!
Curious to see what the setlist for the first two shows are. I believe the first is tonight.
It is - looks like they're onstage now, as Setlist FM is being updated as they play.
I just bumped into the vid and wanted to share it
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Well the tour kicked off today https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2023/johan-cruijff-arena-amsterdam-netherlands-13b819c1.html (https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2023/johan-cruijff-arena-amsterdam-netherlands-13b819c1.html)
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Well the tour kicked off today https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2023/johan-cruijff-arena-amsterdam-netherlands-13b819c1.html (https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2023/johan-cruijff-arena-amsterdam-netherlands-13b819c1.html)
Yea. Neat to see the entirety of Battery being played. Other than that seems pretty normal. Let’s see what night two holds. I hope we get a 2 night DVD at some point.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOsoqMndVM0
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Not sure how anyone can slog the new album, but go gaga over Orion.
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Found myself in a CD shop today expecting to pick up a new copy off the shelf.
SOLD OUT
Back ordered for a couple weeks out. A bit bummed about that.
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Well the tour kicked off today https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2023/johan-cruijff-arena-amsterdam-netherlands-13b819c1.html (https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/metallica/2023/johan-cruijff-arena-amsterdam-netherlands-13b819c1.html)
Yea. Neat to see the entirety of Battery being played. Other than that seems pretty normal. Let’s see what night two holds. I hope we get a 2 night DVD at some point.
Apparently you can go to select movie theaters to watch the live shows from Texas? I saw this promotion, but didnt look into it to know the details. But I'd imagine that recording to be well done and if not officially released, to make it to youtube or whatever.
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Apparently you can go to select movie theaters to watch the live shows from Texas? I saw this promotion, but didnt look into it to know the details.
Oh wow, that's cool.
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Found myself in a CD shop today expecting to pick up a new copy off the shelf.
SOLD OUT
Back ordered for a couple weeks out. A bit bummed about that.
wow thats crazy... its a nice packaging job, I like the CDs for my cars...I still think they sound the best overall
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Found myself in a CD shop today expecting to pick up a new copy off the shelf.
SOLD OUT
Back ordered for a couple weeks out. A bit bummed about that.
wow thats crazy... its a nice packaging job, I like the CDs for my cars...I still think they sound the best overall
EV, sorry bro, but the packaging sucks. The songs aren't even listed on the back cover for reference in the car.
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Found myself in a CD shop today expecting to pick up a new copy off the shelf.
SOLD OUT
Back ordered for a couple weeks out. A bit bummed about that.
wow thats crazy... its a nice packaging job, I like the CDs for my cars...I still think they sound the best overall
EV, sorry bro, but the packaging sucks. The songs aren't even listed on the back cover for reference in the car.
The title would come up on the cars display anyway.
I should get around to having a listen to this album one day.
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Found myself in a CD shop today expecting to pick up a new copy off the shelf.
SOLD OUT
Back ordered for a couple weeks out. A bit bummed about that.
wow thats crazy... its a nice packaging job, I like the CDs for my cars...I still think they sound the best overall
EV, sorry bro, but the packaging sucks. The songs aren't even listed on the back cover for reference in the car.
The title would come up on the cars display anyway.
I should get around to having a listen to this album one day.
Not in my 2007 model. :lol
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Found myself in a CD shop today expecting to pick up a new copy off the shelf.
SOLD OUT
Back ordered for a couple weeks out. A bit bummed about that.
wow thats crazy... its a nice packaging job, I like the CDs for my cars...I still think they sound the best overall
EV, sorry bro, but the packaging sucks. The songs aren't even listed on the back cover for reference in the car.
The title would come up on the cars display anyway.
I should get around to having a listen to this album one day.
Not in my 2007 model. :lol
:rollin
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Found myself in a CD shop today expecting to pick up a new copy off the shelf.
SOLD OUT
Back ordered for a couple weeks out. A bit bummed about that.
wow thats crazy... its a nice packaging job, I like the CDs for my cars...I still think they sound the best overall
EV, sorry bro, but the packaging sucks. The songs aren't even listed on the back cover for reference in the car.
Love ya bro.....I guess im easy to please.I liked the rugged photos... It will get destroyed anyway : )
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Found myself in a CD shop today expecting to pick up a new copy off the shelf.
SOLD OUT
Back ordered for a couple weeks out. A bit bummed about that.
wow thats crazy... its a nice packaging job, I like the CDs for my cars...I still think they sound the best overall
EV, sorry bro, but the packaging sucks. The songs aren't even listed on the back cover for reference in the car.
The title would come up on the cars display anyway.
I should get around to having a listen to this album one day.
Not in my 2007 model. :lol
:rollin
Mine is an2006 : ) 300,000 miles... all my cars have cd granted im a crazy car guy and my newest is 2013 but has CD still .. ( all have crushing stereos ive dumped cars over poor stereo issues ) I wanted a Ford Maverick recently and was turned off by no cd player, I suck at technology , I suck a typing and proofreading also : )
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306k miles!
Yeah, the photos are fine.
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Not sure how anyone can slog the new album, but go gaga over Orion.
I'd go gaga over seeing Orion live. I've only ever seen Metallica twice, and they played Orion the first time and it was epic!
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At my first Metallica gig I got The Call of Ktulu ;D
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At my first Metallica gig I got The Call of Ktulu ;D
So damn jealous! I was thinking about this recently, you when people ask "If you could time travel to see one band play at a certain time, what would it be?". Mine would hands down be to be able to attend the OG S&M show. Fully fuck, to hear The Ecstasy of Gold go straight into that live version of Ktulu. It would be the greatest moment I could imagine.
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Yeah I would've loved to have been at the original S&M show. In fact, that whole era of Metallica must be my favorite.
They were great yesterday in Amsterdam, I was there. It's pretty special to witness the official kickoff of their new world tour in my own country. Met a lot of fans, quite a lot from abroad, and the atmosphere was very nice. Crowd could've been louder IMO. The band were really going for it but I found the crowd reaction quite tame in comparison.
Opening with Orion was unexpected, but not weird at all. I think I've seen them play it once in Arnhem in the Gelredome. I believe it must've been an anniversary tour for Master of Puppets and they played the entire album front to back.
The ArenA is incredibly reverby, but that didn't kill the concert. My clear highlight was an excellent rendition of Fade To Black. It almost seems that the older James gets, the better he's singing that song. Same goes for some of the other 'ballads'.
Tomorrow, night 2! Looking forward to it.
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Yeah I would've loved to have been at the original S&M show. In fact, that whole era of Metallica must be my favorite.
They were great yesterday in Amsterdam, I was there. It's pretty special to witness the official kickoff of their new world tour in my own country. Met a lot of fans, quite a lot from abroad, and the atmosphere was very nice. Crowd could've been louder IMO. The band were really going for it but I found the crowd reaction quite tame in comparison.
Opening with Orion was unexpected, but not weird at all. I think I've seen them play it once in Arnhem in the Gelredome. I believe it must've been an anniversary tour for Master of Puppets and they played the entire album front to back.
The ArenA is incredibly reverby, but that didn't kill the concert. My clear highlight was an excellent rendition of Fade To Black. It almost seems that the older James gets, the better he's singing that song. Same goes for some of the other 'ballads'.
Tomorrow, night 2! Looking forward to it.
enjoy thats awesome !
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At my first Metallica gig I got The Call of Ktulu ;D
I saw that in December, they opened their heavy set with it.
Makes me wonder if that's the rotation, one show open with Orion and the other open with Ktulu.
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At my first Metallica gig I got The Call of Ktulu ;D
I saw that in December, they opened their heavy set with it.
Makes me wonder if that's the rotation, one show open with Orion and the other open with Ktulu.
That's what I'm thinking. I wrote down about 14 or so songs from everything but the newest album that I think will be played tomorrow. Curious how many I'll get.
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I’m thinking it’ll either be Ktulu or 72 Seasons as the opener tomorrow
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At my first Metallica gig I got The Call of Ktulu ;D
I saw that in December, they opened their heavy set with it.
Makes me wonder if that's the rotation, one show open with Orion and the other open with Ktulu.
That's what I'm thinking. I wrote down about 14 or so songs from everything but the newest album that I think will be played tomorrow. Curious how many I'll get.
I'd guess you'll be at least 75% correct. I just hope they throw some gems out there. Although if not this weekend, I've got to imagine we will see more variety as the tour goes on.
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Yeah I would've loved to have been at the original S&M show. In fact, that whole era of Metallica must be my favorite.
I got to see the MSG show. I know a lot of people shit on Metallica and an orchestra. However, getting to see it live was absolutely awesome. It gave a lot of those songs a totally different life.
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Yeah I would've loved to have been at the original S&M show. In fact, that whole era of Metallica must be my favorite.
I got to see the MSG show. I know a lot of people shit on Metallica and an orchestra. However, getting to see it live was absolutely awesome. It gave a lot of those songs a totally different life.
I'm sure live it was a great experience, but I don't know, I roll my eyes every time I see a band is playing or recording with an orchestra. Feels so gimmiky. Seems like everyone is doing it.
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Yeah I would've loved to have been at the original S&M show. In fact, that whole era of Metallica must be my favorite.
I got to see the MSG show. I know a lot of people shit on Metallica and an orchestra. However, getting to see it live was absolutely awesome. It gave a lot of those songs a totally different life.
I'm sure live it was a great experience, but I don't know, I roll my eyes every time I see a band is playing or recording with an orchestra. Feels so gimmiky. Seems like everyone is doing it.
I don't know how commonplace it was in rock and metal before Metallica did it, but that original concert is something else. I always say it's my favourite live album, and it really is. I've always been a sucker for the big John Williams orchestral scores, so combining this with my favourite metal band was always going to be amazing.
I'll add that I feel Metallica's catalogue is perfect for orchestral arrangements. They have the songs to back this sort of project up. I think the first S&M was kinda catching lightning in a bottle as well. I understand why they left it 20 years before trying it again. The second S&M can't hold a candle to the original.
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"I don't know how commonplace it was in rock and metal before Metallica did it"
Well, not live performances, but both Rage and Therion did some wonderful orchestral albums (well, Therion are all about that) and they set for me the benchmark for blending successfully heavy metal and orchestral instruments.
Especially Rage did a wonderful job of rearranging some of their songs to fit better an orchestral arrangement, which Metallica did not do - they "simply" added the orchestra to the music as it was. Sometimes it worked, some others it was just "too much lipstick over a beautiful woman".
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"I don't know how commonplace it was in rock and metal before Metallica did it"
Well, not live performances, but both Rage and Therion did some wonderful orchestral albums (well, Therion are all about that) and they set for me the benchmark for blending successfully heavy metal and orchestral instruments.
Especially Rage did a wonderful job of rearranging some of their songs to fit better an orchestral arrangement, which Metallica did not do - they "simply" added the orchestra to the music as it was. Sometimes it worked, some others it was just "too much lipstick over a beautiful woman".
Absolutely yes to Rage! Other than the actual orchestral revisits with Lingua Mortis, I always thought XIII was one of the more tasteful integrations of metal and orchestra...as you say, it felt like the composition itself was done with the orchestra in mind, not just slapping it on as an afterthought.
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Saw them today, scored a second hand ticket earlier.
This was the set, as per setlist.fm:
-The Call of Ktulu
-Creeping Death
-Leper Messiah
-Until It Sleeps (First performance since November 3, 2008)
-72 Seasons (First time in front of a live audience)
-If Darkness Had a Son (First full live performance)
-Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
-You Must Burn! (live debut)
-The Unforgiven
-Wherever I May Roam
-Harvester of Sorrow
-Moth Into Flame
-Fight Fire With Fire
-Whiskey in the Jar
-One
-Enter Sandman
I was always under the impression that Metallica mostly played their largest hits, but I wasn't familiar with many of these. Had a great time though.
And apparently the set was completely different than Thursday, I can respect that. Must have been a real treat for the fans that went both nights!
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I guess I checked Setlist initially right after someone uploaded Whiskey. I thought the concert was over and was shocked neither Sandman nor One made either night. Then I went back a bit later and the universe made sense again.
Few cool cuts in there but still a lot of the typical hits. Wonder if they will just stick with these two sets for the whole tour. It’s still a lot of songs.
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Wonder if they will just stick with these two sets for the whole tour. It’s still a lot of songs.
Given how much room there is between shows, I doubt it. I can think of a couple of staples that can be thrown in there on command, Blackened wasn't played either night for example. I also think they've played Bleeding Me quite recently.
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Saw them today, scored a second hand ticket earlier.
This was the set, as per setlist.fm:
-The Call of Ktulu
-Creeping Death
-Leper Messiah
-Until It Sleeps (First performance since November 3, 2008)
-72 Seasons (First time in front of a live audience)
-If Darkness Had a Son (First full live performance)
-Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
-You Must Burn! (live debut)
-The Unforgiven
-Wherever I May Roam
-Harvester of Sorrow
-Moth Into Flame
-Fight Fire With Fire
-Whiskey in the Jar
-One
-Enter Sandman
Interesting setlist. I'd have liked to have seen that. All the better for Nothing Else Matters not being present (I know it was played on the first night). Perhaps replace The Unforgiven with Breadfan and... :hat
Gutted that Metallica are only doing this in the UK at Download. Absolute waste.
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Yeah I would've loved to have been at the original S&M show. In fact, that whole era of Metallica must be my favorite.
They were great yesterday in Amsterdam, I was there. It's pretty special to witness the official kickoff of their new world tour in my own country. Met a lot of fans, quite a lot from abroad, and the atmosphere was very nice. Crowd could've been louder IMO. The band were really going for it but I found the crowd reaction quite tame in comparison.
Opening with Orion was unexpected, but not weird at all. I think I've seen them play it once in Arnhem in the Gelredome. I believe it must've been an anniversary tour for Master of Puppets and they played the entire album front to back.
The ArenA is incredibly reverby, but that didn't kill the concert. My clear highlight was an excellent rendition of Fade To Black. It almost seems that the older James gets, the better he's singing that song. Same goes for some of the other 'ballads'.
Tomorrow, night 2! Looking forward to it.
enjoy thats awesome !
Thanks!!
Yesterday was absolutely great as well. Brilliant that they started with another legendary instrumental.
Loved the amount of deep cuts. Whiskey in the Jar was fun. Until It Sleeps is such a beautiful track. Leper Messiah.. love that groove and the faster part. The Unforgiven was absolutely fantastic.
Crowd was a bit louder, even mosh pits here and there.
If these two gigs were to be the last time I’ve seen them, I can totally live with that. But judging from the energy I hope they’ll stay around a little longer. James is having some sort of renaissance with his vocals. I love it.
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Lars Hi-hat work needs some serious love and care along with just playing tasteful in general. :|
Lars Ulrich - Nothing Else Matters (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSv4frU55zQ&ab_channel=DutchGenerationX)
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I hope they open every pair of shows with Orion and Call Of Ktulu.
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Lars Hi-hat work needs some serious love and care along with just playing tasteful in general. :|
Lars Ulrich - Nothing Else Matters (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSv4frU55zQ&ab_channel=DutchGenerationX)
Um...what was he even doing here?!? :o
See, that's the thing that bothers me about Lars and the current debate about him as a drummer. I don't care at all how "skilled" he was/wasn't/is/isn't - his drumming on Metallica's "classic" albums will always be a huge favorite of mine. SO many distinctive parts and crucial inspiration for a ton of metal drummers that were growing up then. Massively influential for the genre. That will always be the case. And certainly nobody is (or should be) criticizing Lars because his drumming is not keeping up with, I don't know, the latest tech death drummer's technique. I also get when people talk about feel and groove and touch.
But when I see a performance like this - there is nothing "charming" or "groovy" or cool about this. This is no Bonham-like "danger" in toeing a fine line and not have the whole thing fall apart. This is just...really bad? I get that criticizing Lars has become the obvious thing to do, and then there's the side that rushes to defend his style and his influence (which is why I premised all of the above). But is this really a question of style? I mean, sure, this is particularly bad and his live performances as of late - at least that I have heard - were actually pretty decent. But this truly gave me pause. I guess, in a way, it's just a bit upsetting because it almost looks unprofessional...
Ok, all good and useless rant over...I'll see myself out... :biggrin:
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Yeah that was pretty brutal. I'm guessing that his audience interaction took his attention away but NEM is like the absolute worst song to do that on.
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I'm not a drummer, not at all. But it does sound weird to me. Would anyone be able to explain what he is and isn't doing, please? Seems like he's clubbing the hi-hat to death, I suppose? And the fill at around 1m 45s seems... curious?
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I'm not a drummer, not at all. But it does sound weird to me. Would anyone be able to explain what he is and isn't doing, please? Seems like he's clubbing the hi-hat to death, I suppose? And the fill at around 1m 45s seems... curious?
For me it's how open his HH is and how uneven and hard he hits it, he also just plays so uneven in general with random fills that dosen't suite the song imo. No dynamics in sight, his drumming is so soulless and uninspiring. He just treats the song so carelessly.
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I'm not a drummer, not at all. But it does sound weird to me. Would anyone be able to explain what he is and isn't doing, please? Seems like he's clubbing the hi-hat to death, I suppose? And the fill at around 1m 45s seems... curious?
For me it's how open his HH is and how uneven and hard he hits it, he also just plays so uneven in general with random fills that dosen't suite the song imo. No dynamics in sight, his drumming is so soulless and uninspiring. He just treats the song so carelessly.
So he was basically half-assing it since it was the millionth time he had to play Nothing Else Matters and he just winged it?
It's always someone's first time to hear a classic song, if customer service can make you believe the 80th time in the day they say with a "telephonic smile" "Hello, this is customer support, how can I help you?", musicians should be able to make the audience believe they're eager to perform an overplayed song :D
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Crazy that they haven't played Until It Sleeps since 2008. Anytime the crew has to bring out the ride cymbal for Lars' kit, something fun is about to happen...
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Crazy that they haven't played Until It Sleeps since 2008. Anytime the crew has to bring out the ride cymbal for Lars' kit, something fun is about to happen...
Did they bring out a ride? That's good. I honestly just assumed he played it on the china without any concern for what sounds good because...well....Lars.
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Lars Hi-hat work needs some serious love and care along with just playing tasteful in general. :|
Lars Ulrich - Nothing Else Matters (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSv4frU55zQ&ab_channel=DutchGenerationX)
Um...what was he even doing here?!? :o
See, that's the thing that bothers me about Lars and the current debate about him as a drummer. I don't care at all how "skilled" he was/wasn't/is/isn't - his drumming on Metallica's "classic" albums will always be a huge favorite of mine. SO many distinctive parts and crucial inspiration for a ton of metal drummers that were growing up then. Massively influential for the genre. That will always be the case. And certainly nobody is (or should be) criticizing Lars because his drumming is not keeping up with, I don't know, the latest tech death drummer's technique. I also get when people talk about feel and groove and touch.
But when I see a performance like this - there is nothing "charming" or "groovy" or cool about this. This is no Bonham-like "danger" in toeing a fine line and not have the whole thing fall apart. This is just...really bad? I get that criticizing Lars has become the obvious thing to do, and then there's the side that rushes to defend his style and his influence (which is why I premised all of the above). But is this really a question of style? I mean, sure, this is particularly bad and his live performances as of late - at least that I have heard - were actually pretty decent. But this truly gave me pause. I guess, in a way, it's just a bit upsetting because it almost looks unprofessional...
Ok, all good and useless rant over...I'll see myself out... :biggrin:
Nick, not singling you out; this is a question for anyone in this line of discussion, but... what was the bad part? It seemed in time to me. The sound was jacked, but then again, you weren't getting the full representation of the band (James sounded like he was out in the tour bus for most of that).
There's a clip right after of Sad But True, and he's putting on a show, yapping with fans (giving one of them a set of sticks)... and it's the same deal. Note perfect? Maybe, maybe not, but it's keeping time, and there's more going on than just his drums. I'm not sure what the complaint is here.
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Lars Hi-hat work needs some serious love and care along with just playing tasteful in general. :|
Lars Ulrich - Nothing Else Matters (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSv4frU55zQ&ab_channel=DutchGenerationX)
Um...what was he even doing here?!? :o
See, that's the thing that bothers me about Lars and the current debate about him as a drummer. I don't care at all how "skilled" he was/wasn't/is/isn't - his drumming on Metallica's "classic" albums will always be a huge favorite of mine. SO many distinctive parts and crucial inspiration for a ton of metal drummers that were growing up then. Massively influential for the genre. That will always be the case. And certainly nobody is (or should be) criticizing Lars because his drumming is not keeping up with, I don't know, the latest tech death drummer's technique. I also get when people talk about feel and groove and touch.
But when I see a performance like this - there is nothing "charming" or "groovy" or cool about this. This is no Bonham-like "danger" in toeing a fine line and not have the whole thing fall apart. This is just...really bad? I get that criticizing Lars has become the obvious thing to do, and then there's the side that rushes to defend his style and his influence (which is why I premised all of the above). But is this really a question of style? I mean, sure, this is particularly bad and his live performances as of late - at least that I have heard - were actually pretty decent. But this truly gave me pause. I guess, in a way, it's just a bit upsetting because it almost looks unprofessional...
Ok, all good and useless rant over...I'll see myself out... :biggrin:
Nick, not singling you out; this is a question for anyone in this line of discussion, but... what was the bad part? It seemed in time to me. The sound was jacked, but then again, you weren't getting the full representation of the band (James sounded like he was out in the tour bus for most of that).
There's a clip right after of Sad But True, and he's putting on a show, yapping with fans (giving one of them a set of sticks)... and it's the same deal. Note perfect? Maybe, maybe not, but it's keeping time, and there's more going on than just his drums. I'm not sure what the complaint is here.
Yeah...my thought as well. I couldn't figure out what was wrong. Obviously, the drums were super loud in the mix, but that's not Lars's problem.
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And I think most of the sound issues is because the person recording is literally right next to the drum kit. They’re not even hearing the drums through the PA system. They are picking up the drums directly because they are in such close proximity. That is what is throwing off the sound makes of the entire recording.
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It's funny how people let rockstars "get away" with playing sloppy and bad and have a million arguments for it while we have jazz and classical musicians that treat every gig and their craft with the upmost respect and play their absolut best every night for a 4th of the audience despite having played a particular song for the 100th time or something.
Nick, not singling you out; this is a question for anyone in this line of discussion, but... what was the bad part? It seemed in time to me. The sound was jacked, but then again, you weren't getting the full representation of the band (James sounded like he was out in the tour bus for most of that).
There's a clip right after of Sad But True, and he's putting on a show, yapping with fans (giving one of them a set of sticks)... and it's the same deal. Note perfect? Maybe, maybe not, but it's keeping time, and there's more going on than just his drums. I'm not sure what the complaint is here.
I said this below in my previous comment vv.
I'm not a drummer, not at all. But it does sound weird to me. Would anyone be able to explain what he is and isn't doing, please? Seems like he's clubbing the hi-hat to death, I suppose? And the fill at around 1m 45s seems... curious?
For me it's how open his HH is and how uneven and hard he hits it, he also just plays so uneven in general with random fills that dosen't suite the song imo. No dynamics in sight, his drumming is so soulless and uninspiring. He just treats the song so carelessly.
I'll add:
It's sloppy playing, sure he's played it alot but to me atleast I think it's really bad. This have nothing to do with a loud mix, most of the sound comes from the source, meaning his drums.
I'm a drummer, not that you should trust me more because well we're on the internet after all but to me atleast it's just bad. :)
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And I think most of the sound issues is because the person recording is literally right next to the drum kit. They’re not even hearing the drums through the PA system. They are picking up the drums directly because they are in such close proximity. That is what is throwing off the sound makes of the entire recording.
Exactly. The timing is going to get thrown way off when you're getting one instrument directly and the others through a PA.
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Nick, not singling you out; this is a question for anyone in this line of discussion, but... what was the bad part? It seemed in time to me. The sound was jacked, but then again, you weren't getting the full representation of the band (James sounded like he was out in the tour bus for most of that).
There's a clip right after of Sad But True, and he's putting on a show, yapping with fans (giving one of them a set of sticks)... and it's the same deal. Note perfect? Maybe, maybe not, but it's keeping time, and there's more going on than just his drums. I'm not sure what the complaint is here.
And I think most of the sound issues is because the person recording is literally right next to the drum kit. They’re not even hearing the drums through the PA system. They are picking up the drums directly because they are in such close proximity. That is what is throwing off the sound makes of the entire recording.
Exactly. The timing is going to get thrown way off when you're getting one instrument directly and the others through a PA.
I don't know, I'm not a drummer so this is more about how it felt than anything else :) I think the recording itself might have something to do with it in terms of the loudness (although, let's face it, Lars has never been a master of subtlety anyway), but it's not like the timing is consistently off...again, I don't know, it feels like the way he accents stuff on the hi-hat is just a bit random. Plus, there is one fill (someone pointed it out above) that might be technically in time, but it sounds like something I might come up with if I tried to play this ;)
Anyway - none of this is important, clearly. I did say mine was a useless rant :biggrin: Like I said, I love what Lars has done in his career. It's just surprising how much sloppiness he gets away with sometimes...although presumably for people that are actually at the show and get to have that sort of close interaction with him as he plays...that's part of the fun...
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What's wrong is shitty playing. Well, I'll be kinder and say lazy playing, like he's not paying attention, or playing on autopilot.
The open hi-hat all the way through is pretty crappy sounding, and there are multiple places where a fill should have led into a cymbal shot, and he didn't do it, giving a snare shot instead, like he lost his place. It's just not good.
The comment above about jazz and classical musicians is spot on.
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I think Metallica has long past the point of being musicians as opposed to entertainers. I wasn't mortified by the NEM footage. I'd be more pissed they wasted a spot in the setlist on it. It's just Lars being Lars, which is part of the deal.
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It's funny how people let rockstars "get away" with playing sloppy and bad and have a million arguments for it while we have jazz and classical musicians that treat every gig and their craft with the upmost respect and play their absolut best every night for a 4th of the audience despite having played a particular song for the 100th time or something.
I don't know that it's necessarily that, at least not for me; I look for different things out of different people/musicians/artists. Yeah, if Petrucci duffs the riff on "Damage Control", it's different than if Gene Simmons duffs the bass line on "Let Me Go, Rock'n'Roll". It just is. I'm not at a John Petrucci (or a jazz or classical recital) show to rock out with my cock out. I go to Kiss for a different reason. They're not the same. And I don't know that it's about "arguments" or not, it just is.
But I think it's a different question: what is the artist looking to project? Then, and only then, it's up to the listener to decide whether they want that or not. For me, I have enough music in my world that I don't need EVERY drummer to be note-perfect, and I don't want every drummer to be Peter Criss. I'm not going to crucify Lars for not being Neil Peart.
And on top of that, again, NOT a drummer, but having played in bands for years and seen hundreds of bands live, back to the clip in question, I'm still not quite getting what the problem is. He didn't close his hi-hat enough? He hit a snare instead of a cymbal? Does that make it "bad"?
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It's funny how people let rockstars "get away" with playing sloppy and bad and have a million arguments for it while we have jazz and classical musicians that treat every gig and their craft with the upmost respect and play their absolut best every night for a 4th of the audience despite having played a particular song for the 100th time or something.
I don't know that it's necessarily that, at least not for me; I look for different things out of different people/musicians/artists. Yeah, if Petrucci duffs the riff on "Damage Control", it's different than if Gene Simmons duffs the bass line on "Let Me Go, Rock'n'Roll". It just is. I'm not at a John Petrucci (or a jazz or classical recital) show to rock out with my cock out. I go to Kiss for a different reason. They're not the same. And I don't know that it's about "arguments" or not, it just is.
But I think it's a different question: what is the artist looking to project? Then, and only then, it's up to the listener to decide whether they want that or not. For me, I have enough music in my world that I don't need EVERY drummer to be note-perfect, and I don't want every drummer to be Peter Criss. I'm not going to crucify Lars for not being Neil Peart.
And on top of that, again, NOT a drummer, but having played in bands for years and seen hundreds of bands live, back to the clip in question, I'm still not quite getting what the problem is. He didn't close his hi-hat enough? He hit a snare instead of a cymbal? Does that make it "bad"?
I agree with pretty much every word of this (especially the highlighted). I also think it's a bit unfair to judge this without a proper mix.
There's a commercial that's been running for awhile now. I can't remember what the product is, but it says that choosing whatever is being advertised is a no brainer on the level of choosing Slash to be the guitar player in a garage band. He plays the solo for (I think) Sweet Child of Mind, and it sounds like shit. But (putting aside my dislike of GNR), it sounds just fine in the mix of the song.
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It's funny how people let rockstars "get away" with playing sloppy and bad and have a million arguments for it while we have jazz and classical musicians that treat every gig and their craft with the upmost respect and play their absolut best every night for a 4th of the audience despite having played a particular song for the 100th time or something.
I don't know that it's necessarily that, at least not for me; I look for different things out of different people/musicians/artists. Yeah, if Petrucci duffs the riff on "Damage Control", it's different than if Gene Simmons duffs the bass line on "Let Me Go, Rock'n'Roll". It just is. I'm not at a John Petrucci (or a jazz or classical recital) show to rock out with my cock out. I go to Kiss for a different reason. They're not the same. And I don't know that it's about "arguments" or not, it just is.
But I think it's a different question: what is the artist looking to project? Then, and only then, it's up to the listener to decide whether they want that or not. For me, I have enough music in my world that I don't need EVERY drummer to be note-perfect, and I don't want every drummer to be Peter Criss. I'm not going to crucify Lars for not being Neil Peart.
And on top of that, again, NOT a drummer, but having played in bands for years and seen hundreds of bands live, back to the clip in question, I'm still not quite getting what the problem is. He didn't close his hi-hat enough? He hit a snare instead of a cymbal? Does that make it "bad"?
I agree with pretty much every word of this (especially the highlighted). I also think it's a bit unfair to judge this without a proper mix.
There's a commercial that's been running for awhile now. I can't remember what the product is, but it says that choosing whatever is being advertised is a no brainer on the level of choosing Slash to be the guitar player in a garage band. He plays the solo for (I think) Sweet Child of Mind, and it sounds like shit. But (putting aside my dislike of GNR), it sounds just fine in the mix of the song.
Capital One.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZ2bhv20O0&ab_channel=AmsterdamConcertFootagebySteven (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZ2bhv20O0&ab_channel=AmsterdamConcertFootagebySteven)
This is a clip from NEM at Amsterdam not right next to Lars. Still sounds shitty to me.
But overall I will say I don't find his drumming boring and despite the straightforwardness I often do like the drums on heavier Metallica songs. not a drummer though, so all of this is a feeling that I can't put into musical terms. Live Metallica is not a flawless band or close to being that, but I had a great time at the show for sure.
(Edit: posted the wrong link initially)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZ2bhv20O0&ab_channel=AmsterdamConcertFootagebySteven (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZ2bhv20O0&ab_channel=AmsterdamConcertFootagebySteven)
This is a clip from NEM at Amsterdam not right next to Lars. Still sounds shitty to me.
But overall I will say I don't find his drumming boring and despite the straightforwardness I often do like the drums on heavier Metallica songs. not a drummer though, so all of this is a feeling that I can't put into musical terms. Live Metallica is not a flawless band or close to being that, but I had a great time at the show for sure.
(Edit: posted the wrong link initially)
Well, that's the other thing; with only a handful of exceptions - Maiden in Hartford on the Legacy tour is the only one I can readily think of right now - MOST times when I hear a boot or a fan-video from a show I was at, the video is worse than my remembery. So much of seeing concerts (at least for me) is the "moment". I get to see the musicians/artists I love doing what I love watching them do in real time.
And I sort of like the odd-balls, the unique things. For all the times I've seen Kiss, the best two shows were the one where Gene fucked up the words to "Let Me Go, Rock 'n' Roll" (a song he's sung a thousand times - 1010 according to Setlist.fm) and the one where his flying rig didn't work, and he was hanging three feet off the stage for a moment (he got PISSED, started yelling at the roadies, and from that moment on, the band noticeably kicked it into a higher gear and destroyed the arena).
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I get that. I saw an Anneke show where she forgot the chords to a song and we all cheered her on. Was super cool.
But there’s a big difference between the cute occasional mess up that reminds us everyone’s human, and someone who plays like this regularly and doesn’t seem to care.
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I get that. I saw an Anneke show where she forgot the chords to a song and we all cheered her on. Was super cool.
But there’s a big difference between the cute occasional mess up that reminds us everyone’s human, and someone who plays like this regularly and doesn’t seem to care.
Not to beat this into the ground, but I'm not sure how "not playing the way you expect him to" equate to "doesn't seem to care"? Royal "you", of course. I know he got ridiculed by some for the same criticisms, but that was essentially the live Jimmy Page from day one. I get it; Lars gets criticized for that a lot anyway - the art collecting, the limousines, the four marriages/relationships; it was a sort of theme from "Some Kind Of Monster", if I remember correctly - but he IS a drummer in a ROCK/METAL band. I feel like it's just as likely that he cares very much, but wants to get a different vibe from the live shows.
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Well, you're falsely reframing it as "not playing the way you expect him to." Those are unrelated things in this context.
If you go see a Kiss show and Gene comes out and pisses in Paul's mouth and leaves, I don't get to chalk up your disappointment to him not preforming the way you expect him to, you know?
Unless "expect" just means expecting them to play well. Then yes, we expect them to play well.
Lars definitely cares A LOT about a lot of things. I'm not sure his drumming is one of them so much anymore. He wants to put on a great show and entertain everyone and I'm not 100% sure he thinks his drumming is a major component in that. I say this as someone who doesn't have nearly the amount of Lars complaints as others. But a lot of them are very legit and it's a bit dismissive to label all or the bulk of the issues we have with his playing as us having unrealistic or whatever expectations.
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Well, you're falsely reframing it as "not playing the way you expect him to." Those are unrelated things in this context.
If you go see a Kiss show and Gene comes out and pisses in Paul's mouth and leaves, I don't get to chalk up your disappointment to him not preforming the way you expect him to, you know?
Unless "expect" just means expecting them to play well. Then yes, we expect them to play well.
Lars definitely cares A LOT about a lot of things. I'm not sure his drumming is one of them so much anymore. He wants to put on a great show and entertain everyone and I'm not 100% sure he thinks his drumming is a major component in that. I say this as someone who doesn't have nearly the amount of Lars complaints as others. But a lot of them are very legit and it's a bit dismissive to label all or the bulk of the issues we have with his playing as us having unrealistic or whatever expectations.
I don't think that's false, though. "Not closing a hi-hat" is a choice that an artist - in the general sense of the word - makes sometimes 100 or more times in even one song. There's zero value to that, good or bad, other than "I like it" or "I do not like it". That latter is simply an expectation, as I noted. I'm not saying I'm a human metronome, but I tapped out time while listening to that, and it was in time. Except for one fill near the end where it looked like he might not bring it back around - but he did! - it was pretty clean in that way.
And even your point about "caring about a lot of things" is not a value judgement. There is no "good" or "bad" to that, just "do I agree with that" or "do I not agree with that". He's the artist; he gets to prioritize whatever it is he wants to, and I get to decide whether I want to spend money on that or not. This is no different than any of a 100 conversations we have here: rotating setlist for DT. James' vocals. Taylor Swift. Even P/R. All issues of "prioritization".
Not arguing with you, just shooting the shit, but still.
EDIT: I re-read the Paul and Gene thing - I didn't understand it at first - but now that I think I get it, yeah, yeah you do. If that's the presentation, the show that Gene and Paul want to put on, then yeah, it's just my false expectations.
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The mix and his time have nothing to do with it.
I don't know what else to say. You "not getting" why some of us think this is crap doesn't mean it's not crap, or that we're overly critical. It just means that it doesn't bother you. Which is fine.
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The mix and his time have nothing to do with it.
I don't know what else to say. You "not getting" why some of us think this is crap doesn't mean it's not crap, or that we're overly critical. It just means that it doesn't bother you. Which is fine.
It is; but I don't think that that's where people are leaving it. If it was just "eh, I don't like that", if more people accepted that them not liking it was as far as it goes, I probably wouldn't have posted. But too many are going way further, inserting their opinions as the basis for other "facts" that they can't possibly know.
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The mix and his time have nothing to do with it.
I don't know what else to say. You "not getting" why some of us think this is crap doesn't mean it's not crap, or that we're overly critical. It just means that it doesn't bother you. Which is fine.
I think another aspect of this might be the listener's background and how it generally informs the lens with which they view a performance.
Now, this does not directly relate the Stadler's post/points, but it has inspired the thought nonetheless.
I, as a musician, am far more likely to hear the deviations in another musician's playing, especially if I am familiar with the source material. My bar for 'sloppiness' or whatever you want to call it is pretty high, but the fact is, if an artist is taking massive liberties with a well-known song, I'm definitely going to notice.
As someone who used to be able to play the first 5 albums cover to cover, I will be the first to tell you that Kirk is, in many ways, just as "loose" as Lars is on stage. I don't mind, but I totally understand why someone else might.
But, I am a musician.
I listened to a handful of podcasts last week reviewing 72 seasons, and the general consensus was pretty glowing. That said, I noticed that the non-musicians tended to trip over themselves praising Lars and Kirk, while musicians would cite the same performances as sub-standard (one host literally said it was Lars' worst drum performance on record to date?!?!?)
As I type this, I realize that I'm kinda making an obvious point here, but I do think it's still a valid piece of perspective.
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The mix and his time have nothing to do with it.
I don't know what else to say. You "not getting" why some of us think this is crap doesn't mean it's not crap, or that we're overly critical. It just means that it doesn't bother you. Which is fine.
I think another aspect of this might be the listener's background and how it generally informs the lens with which they view a performance.
Now, this does not directly relate the Stadler's post/points, but it has inspired the thought nonetheless.
I, as a musician, am far more likely to hear the deviations in another musician's playing, especially if I am familiar with the source material. My bar for 'sloppiness' or whatever you want to call it is pretty high, but the fact is, if an artist is taking massive liberties with a well-known song, I'm definitely going to notice.
As someone who used to be able to play the first 5 albums cover to cover, I will be the first to tell you that Kirk is, in many ways, just as "loose" as Lars is on stage. I don't mind, but I totally understand why someone else might.
But, I am a musician.
I listened to a handful of podcasts last week reviewing 72 seasons, and the general consensus was pretty glowing. That said, I noticed that the non-musicians tended to trip over themselves praising Lars and Kirk, while musicians would cite the same performances as sub-standard (one host literally said it was Lars' worst drum performance on record to date?!?!?)
As I type this, I realize that I'm kinda making an obvious point here, but I do think it's still a valid piece of perspective.
As a musician, when you play live, do you play everything note-perfect from the original? What about when or if you adapt multiple parts from a recording into one part that you can play live? Ever dumb something down for live playing? I know for me, I can't sing and play at the same time unless the guitar part is almost beginner level simple. So I've been putting together a couple of pieces to play at a local bar open mike night - assuming I can muster up the courage to actually DO it - and I'm actually pretty proud that I've come up with a couple three arrangements for songs I really like that I can sing well with.
If I do go out there, my intent is to a) have fun, b) pay homage to my parents (of the three songs I'm working on, one each is for them), and c) hopefully get a smile or a clap or two from the crowd (in which there will be some STELLAR musicians). One of the songs has an Em chord, and for flavor at the end of every second bar, I play the high G and the add7 on the B string. But if I forget, or muff it, the song doesn't, I don't think, fall to pieces. It probably only does need the rhythmic E bass note to maintain the continuity of the song. Am I Lars? Do I not care?
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Am I Lars James? Do I not care?
;D
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What I hear is it sounds as if Lars is rushing the song, like the guys are trying to keep up with Lars' faster drumming.
Although, I guarantee that guy in the yellow shirt at the end does not care one bit about the drums, with the way he is holding his hands there in awe at seeing Hetfield up close. :lol
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What I hear is it sounds as if Lars is rushing the song, like the guys are trying to keep up with Lars' faster drumming.
Although, I guarantee that guy in the yellow shirt at the end does not care one bit about the drums, with the way he is holding his hands there in awe at seeing Hetfield up close. :lol
I wonder if James is the one keeping time still live...
Actually I'd legit love to see James do a Metallica set behind the drums, I know this is old news but a few years ago I realized he is surprisingly good at playing the drums.
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What I hear is it sounds as if Lars is rushing the song, like the guys are trying to keep up with Lars' faster drumming.
Although, I guarantee that guy in the yellow shirt at the end does not care one bit about the drums, with the way he is holding his hands there in awe at seeing Hetfield up close. :lol
I wonder if James is the one keeping time still live...
Actually I'd legit love to see James do a Metallica set behind the drums, I know this is old news but a few years ago I realized he is surprisingly good at playing the drums.
Yes he does according to Joe from Gojira.
https://loudwire.com/lars-ulrich-follows-james-hetfield-rhythm-live-joe-duplantier-gojira/
Metallica's James Hetfield is the master of rhythm and in a recent interview, Gojira's Joe Duplantier expounded on that sentiment, calling him the "foundation" of the band's rhythm section while noting that drummer Lars Ulrich follows him live and that he utilizes almost no drums in his in-ear monitors onstage.
"I plug them in and put it in my pocket and look at him and I was amazed to see that there was almost no drums in there. Who does that? What? Maybe there was some hi hat, but he was flying through the songs, playing and singing and it was only him in his monitors. A little bit of drums to stay connected to the rest, but some people need a lot of drums because they´re so chaotic and are just sitting on the drums, like in my case for example," he recollected.
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So even James doesn't want to listen to Lars, or trust his timekeeping :lol
(I actually like Lars, honestly. I just find his album drumming in recent years to be dull.)
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What I hear is it sounds as if Lars is rushing the song, like the guys are trying to keep up with Lars' faster drumming.
Although, I guarantee that guy in the yellow shirt at the end does not care one bit about the drums, with the way he is holding his hands there in awe at seeing Hetfield up close. :lol
I wonder if James is the one keeping time still live...
Actually I'd legit love to see James do a Metallica set behind the drums, I know this is old news but a few years ago I realized he is surprisingly good at playing the drums.
Yes he does according to Joe from Gojira.
https://loudwire.com/lars-ulrich-follows-james-hetfield-rhythm-live-joe-duplantier-gojira/
Metallica's James Hetfield is the master of rhythm and in a recent interview, Gojira's Joe Duplantier expounded on that sentiment, calling him the "foundation" of the band's rhythm section while noting that drummer Lars Ulrich follows him live and that he utilizes almost no drums in his in-ear monitors onstage.
"I plug them in and put it in my pocket and look at him and I was amazed to see that there was almost no drums in there. Who does that? What? Maybe there was some hi hat, but he was flying through the songs, playing and singing and it was only him in his monitors. A little bit of drums to stay connected to the rest, but some people need a lot of drums because they´re so chaotic and are just sitting on the drums, like in my case for example," he recollected.
Yea that was the article I was thinking of :lol
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The mix and his time have nothing to do with it.
I don't know what else to say. You "not getting" why some of us think this is crap doesn't mean it's not crap, or that we're overly critical. It just means that it doesn't bother you. Which is fine.
I think another aspect of this might be the listener's background and how it generally informs the lens with which they view a performance.
Now, this does not directly relate the Stadler's post/points, but it has inspired the thought nonetheless.
I, as a musician, am far more likely to hear the deviations in another musician's playing, especially if I am familiar with the source material. My bar for 'sloppiness' or whatever you want to call it is pretty high, but the fact is, if an artist is taking massive liberties with a well-known song, I'm definitely going to notice.
As someone who used to be able to play the first 5 albums cover to cover, I will be the first to tell you that Kirk is, in many ways, just as "loose" as Lars is on stage. I don't mind, but I totally understand why someone else might.
But, I am a musician.
I listened to a handful of podcasts last week reviewing 72 seasons, and the general consensus was pretty glowing. That said, I noticed that the non-musicians tended to trip over themselves praising Lars and Kirk, while musicians would cite the same performances as sub-standard (one host literally said it was Lars' worst drum performance on record to date?!?!?)
As I type this, I realize that I'm kinda making an obvious point here, but I do think it's still a valid piece of perspective.
As a musician, when you play live, do you play everything note-perfect from the original? What about when or if you adapt multiple parts from a recording into one part that you can play live? Ever dumb something down for live playing? I know for me, I can't sing and play at the same time unless the guitar part is almost beginner level simple. So I've been putting together a couple of pieces to play at a local bar open mike night - assuming I can muster up the courage to actually DO it - and I'm actually pretty proud that I've come up with a couple three arrangements for songs I really like that I can sing well with.
If I do go out there, my intent is to a) have fun, b) pay homage to my parents (of the three songs I'm working on, one each is for them), and c) hopefully get a smile or a clap or two from the crowd (in which there will be some STELLAR musicians). One of the songs has an Em chord, and for flavor at the end of every second bar, I play the high G and the add7 on the B string. But if I forget, or muff it, the song doesn't, I don't think, fall to pieces. It probably only does need the rhythmic E bass note to maintain the continuity of the song. Am I Lars? Do I not care?
As a musician, when you play live, do you play everything note-perfect from the original? For the most part, I try, and occasionally, I come close. Helps that my main gig is originals, so I'm only really on the honor system with myself (and the 15 people that maybe know the songs).
What about when or if you adapt multiple parts from a recording into one part that you can play live? I spent a few years pre-covid doing the singer-songwriter thing at local spots, and that was my favorite part–taking an arrangement and distilling it down to a single acoustic guitar. I did a lot of 'pop' songs, and trust me, making a song without guitars sound recognizable with ONLY a guitar is quite a challenge.
Ever dumb something down for live playing? Lol...all the time. Recently picked up with a band from my 20's, and we decided to finish tracking our 'second album' which was primarily written 20 years ago. I sat down with the demos and was trying to wrap my head around what my younger self was thinking with all of the leads (I was way deep into DT, JP, and fusion at the time). After a couple of weeks I decided that there was no way I was going to be able to dive back into that headspace, and honestly, my playing wasn't even in the same ballpark technique wise as it was all those years ago. Nowadays, I'm way more inspired by minimalists like Gilmore, so I opted to reinterpret (a.k.a, simplify) my parts so that I'd actually be able to play them live.
I know for me, I can't sing and play at the same time unless the guitar part is almost beginner level simple. Yep, same here. And even when I sing, it's pretty, um, beginner is a nice term ;D
So I've been putting together a couple of pieces to play at a local bar open mike night - assuming I can muster up the courage to actually DO it - and I'm actually pretty proud that I've come up with a couple three arrangements for songs I really like that I can sing well with. That's the key—pick songs that are in your comfort zone. Not the hugest fan of Dobie Gray's "Drift Away," but it was something I could always nail and always got people swaying.
If I do go out there, my intent is to a) have fun, b) pay homage to my parents (of the three songs I'm working on, one each is for them), and c) hopefully get a smile or a clap or two from the crowd (in which there will be some STELLAR musicians). You should definitely do it. And even if it (in your mind) goes awful, you should do it again, and again. And, honestly, you should do it this weekend.
One of the songs has an Em chord, and for flavor at the end of every second bar, I play the high G and the add7 on the B string. But if I forget, or muff it, the song doesn't, I don't think, fall to pieces. It probably only does need the rhythmic E bass note to maintain the continuity of the song. Am I Lars? Do I not care? I wouldn't, and I don't think anyone other than you would even notice. But, I also get that it's easier said than done when it comes to NOT over-analyzing your playing.
Even though I KNOW that how well I play on stage rarely has a direct impact on the crowd's reaction, I honestly feel better about a near-flawless performance to an empty room than a trainwreck that no one notices. It's a weird, paradoxical thing that, as a musician, I've always struggled with.
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Tangent to the new album and performance talk a little, I saw this guy on reddit with a cover of Every breath you take if Rammstein sung it. It's incredible and that sent me on a rabbit hole of his other videos and he's got several that just nail the tone of the band he's covering and the song they cover in their style.
This one is if Metallica sang The final countdown.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X1RbIEP_bQ&ab_channel=MoonicProductions
His System of a Down ones are great too.
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Every 'yeah' in Metallica's studio discography. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00Qfnyv1E90)
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Hetfield is the star of this album for me. Seems like he keeps getting better with age, both singing and playing.
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After leaving it for a couple of weeks, I just finished a listen and I think the new album is pretty good. James sounds awesome. A tad long and slow in parts, but I'm only skipping a couple of songs in the middle. Everything else is quite solid.
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This was probably posted before, and i just missed it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrnBQrP72qc
Basically, a guy playing the 72 Seasons riffs in a medley, in the tone and style of ...And Justice for All. Apologies if it has been posted. It's new to me.
This knocked me on my ass. I'm not a guitarist, so forgive the rudimentary and likely incorrect phrases I'll use, but if Metallica's new music CAN sound like this, and it's a tone thing, a sound choice, then what the hell are they doing? Why aren't they making their new music, which clearly has great riffage by the above example, sound like...METALlica? You know, METAL?
Look, I am not trying to piss off fans who dig Metallica's catalog. I get that everything is subjective, and if you dig their output in recent years, cool. No problem here. But this illustrates I guess what is my biggest complaint - Metallica COULD sound like a thrash metal band again. But they are CHOOSING not to. I don't get that. I get evolution. That I understand. But Metallica's bread and butter are metal, thrash riffs delivered in an angry way. And if all their peers can find a way to still do that and evolve, why is it that the founder of the thrash subgenre of heavy metal seems content to wallow around sounding like they do now (which is basically just an extension of the Load era warmth and slower tempos)?
If your riffs are that fucking bad ass when played like AJFA, then why the F are you not going for it? Yes, personal choices, I get all that. But for the metal and thrash fan in me, I just shake my head. It's baffling. These riffs from 72 Seasons are good. I knew they were good before hearing this AJFA thing. But they sounded warm 70s hard rock like. And now to have them presented like the classic era band...holy shit, they pop out of the speakers.
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This was probably posted before, and i just missed it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrnBQrP72qc
Basically, a guy playing the 72 Seasons riffs in a medley, in the tone and style of ...And Justice for All. Apologies if it has been posted. It's new to me.
This knocked me on my ass. I'm not a guitarist, so forgive the rudimentary and likely incorrect phrases I'll use, but if Metallica's new music CAN sound like this, and it's a tone thing, a sound choice, then what the hell are they doing? Why aren't they making their new music, which clearly has great riffage by the above example, sound like...METALlica? You know, METAL?
Look, I am not trying to piss off fans who dig Metallica's catalog. I get that everything is subjective, and if you dig their output in recent years, cool. No problem here. But this illustrates I guess what is my biggest complaint - Metallica COULD sound like a thrash metal band again. But they are CHOOSING not to. I don't get that. I get evolution. That I understand. But Metallica's bread and butter are metal, thrash riffs delivered in an angry way. And if all their peers can find a way to still do that and evolve, why is it that the founder of the thrash subgenre of heavy metal seems content to wallow around sounding like they do now (which is basically just an extension of the Load era warmth and slower tempos)?
If your riffs are that fucking bad ass when played like AJFA, then why the F are you not going for it? Yes, personal choices, I get all that. But for the metal and thrash fan in me, I just shake my head. It's baffling. These riffs from 72 Seasons are good. I knew they were good before hearing this AJFA thing. But they sounded warm 70s hard rock like. And now to have them presented like the classic era band...holy shit, they pop out of the speakers.
As someone who doesn't really care for thrash all that much, I kind of push back on the other bands evolving. When I hear Slayer, my head plays the "Entry Of The Gladiators" (the "circus theme" for those that don't know). I don't hear a lot of evolution there. It's a fairly narrow genre, with some pretty specific rules, it seems.
I'm not arguing with you, I'm just struggling with the "personal choices, I get all that" then sort of ragging on them for their personal choices. They're not in that head space anymore and I'm not sure why that's not enough.
FTR, I ordered the new record today. I've liked everything I've heard and as part of the countdown I revisited Hardwired and REALLY liked it, so hoping for more here too.
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As someone who doesn't really care for thrash all that much, I kind of push back on the other bands evolving. When I hear Slayer, my head plays the "Entry Of The Gladiators" (the "circus theme" for those that don't know). I don't hear a lot of evolution there. It's a fairly narrow genre, with some pretty specific rules, it seems.
I'm not arguing with you, I'm just struggling with the "personal choices, I get all that" then sort of ragging on them for their personal choices. They're not in that head space anymore and I'm not sure why that's not enough.
Not sure why you struggle to understand what I say? I get that they have their personal choices. But as a fan (of their metal years), those choices are incredibly frustrating to me. I would still like to be a fan. Yet, when fans play their riffs in a style more keen to my ear than what Metallica themselves do, that's so annoying! So yes, I GET what they are doing. But I am not happy with it, particularly when the riffs themselves are still awesome.
So no, as a fan of METALlica, it's not enough for me. If I was a fan of 'Tallica, then sure. :\ ::)
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This was probably posted before, and i just missed it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrnBQrP72qc
Basically, a guy playing the 72 Seasons riffs in a medley, in the tone and style of ...And Justice for All. Apologies if it has been posted. It's new to me.
This knocked me on my ass. I'm not a guitarist, so forgive the rudimentary and likely incorrect phrases I'll use, but if Metallica's new music CAN sound like this, and it's a tone thing, a sound choice, then what the hell are they doing? Why aren't they making their new music, which clearly has great riffage by the above example, sound like...METALlica? You know, METAL?
Look, I am not trying to piss off fans who dig Metallica's catalog. I get that everything is subjective, and if you dig their output in recent years, cool. No problem here. But this illustrates I guess what is my biggest complaint - Metallica COULD sound like a thrash metal band again. But they are CHOOSING not to. I don't get that. I get evolution. That I understand. But Metallica's bread and butter are metal, thrash riffs delivered in an angry way. And if all their peers can find a way to still do that and evolve, why is it that the founder of the thrash subgenre of heavy metal seems content to wallow around sounding like they do now (which is basically just an extension of the Load era warmth and slower tempos)?
If your riffs are that fucking bad ass when played like AJFA, then why the F are you not going for it? Yes, personal choices, I get all that. But for the metal and thrash fan in me, I just shake my head. It's baffling. These riffs from 72 Seasons are good. I knew they were good before hearing this AJFA thing. But they sounded warm 70s hard rock like. And now to have them presented like the classic era band...holy shit, they pop out of the speakers.
I'm kind of with Stadler here. To my ears, it's as simple as they have outgrown thrash metal. They aren't teenagers anymore, and I don't understand thinking that they SHOULD be making the same kind of music that they did when they were teenagers.
I would say that their peers have NOT evolved, hardly at all.
They are doing what they want to do. They have achieved a point in their careers where they can do what they want, and they aren't forced to do anything else. This is it.
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The evolution thing is (like everything) subjective. I absolutely hear evolution in a band such as Death Angel. Megadeth evolved quite a bit through The World Needs a Hero, and then re-found their sound for a few albums before veering again and then finding their way back to thrash.
Testament evolved significantly, incorporating some heavier music into their sound before settling into a routine (their last couple records have been very formulaic).
I'm not saying that Metallica shouldn't evolve. I'm saying as a fan, I feel like they can evolve within the confines of the subgenre they created.
And that, honestly, is where the problem is for me, personally. METALlica is no longer METAL. I don't consider what they've done the last couple records to really be metal, much less thrash, at all, really. Some moments, but not really. And how can a band whose name is METALLICA not be as heavy as they used to be? I know that's completely unfair. I do. But as a fan of their truly metal years, it bothers me.
Hef, you say they've likely "outgrown" thrash metal. I'd argue that you don't "outgrow" music. I'm still a metal guy in my late-40s, like I've been since my pre-teen years. Do I like OTHER music now? Absolutely. But my bread and butter is still heavy music. "Outgrow" means to say that something is immature. Thrash metal is absolutely NOT immature, and there is never a need to "outgrow" that type of music.
If Metallica subscribes to that line of thinking (I don't know, I'm not them), then that's really a shame. Because that shits on everyone who supported them and still loves that style of music all these years.
Bottom line though - that dude playing the 72 Seasons riffs are how, IMO, I want to hear that music. As a metal band. Not as a bunch of pampered "we'll put out whatever we want and feel and people will buy it" super stars.
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This was probably posted before, and i just missed it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrnBQrP72qc
Basically, a guy playing the 72 Seasons riffs in a medley, in the tone and style of ...And Justice for All. Apologies if it has been posted. It's new to me.
This knocked me on my ass. I'm not a guitarist, so forgive the rudimentary and likely incorrect phrases I'll use, but if Metallica's new music CAN sound like this, and it's a tone thing, a sound choice, then what the hell are they doing? Why aren't they making their new music, which clearly has great riffage by the above example, sound like...METALlica? You know, METAL?
Look, I am not trying to piss off fans who dig Metallica's catalog. I get that everything is subjective, and if you dig their output in recent years, cool. No problem here. But this illustrates I guess what is my biggest complaint - Metallica COULD sound like a thrash metal band again. But they are CHOOSING not to. I don't get that. I get evolution. That I understand. But Metallica's bread and butter are metal, thrash riffs delivered in an angry way. And if all their peers can find a way to still do that and evolve, why is it that the founder of the thrash subgenre of heavy metal seems content to wallow around sounding like they do now (which is basically just an extension of the Load era warmth and slower tempos)?
If your riffs are that fucking bad ass when played like AJFA, then why the F are you not going for it? Yes, personal choices, I get all that. But for the metal and thrash fan in me, I just shake my head. It's baffling. These riffs from 72 Seasons are good. I knew they were good before hearing this AJFA thing. But they sounded warm 70s hard rock like. And now to have them presented like the classic era band...holy shit, they pop out of the speakers.
I feel ya Sam.
The Justice riffs were written what, almost 35 years ago? They had an aggression and a desperation that was within the writer.
Metallica has nothing to prove. Megadeth and Testament are still fighting for their sustainability to a point, or perhaps they just never outgrew it. Mustaine is going to outriff Metallica as long as there's a Metallica.
I never cared for Testament. I thought they were a second rate Metallica. Now it could be argued that musically, Metallica is a second rate Testament.
This frustrated Rush fan didn't think they made an interesting and challenging album after Moving Pictures until Clockwork Angels.
This frustrated Queensryche fan looks at Promised Land, which is basically Queensryche's Load, and thinks how on earth is this two albums removed from O:M?
It's frustrating to think something is subpar, yet everyone is lapping it up. I just gave two examples for me. I've long given up on expectations when it comes to Metallica. They'll drop new music every 7 years and I'll either accept it or not. I can live with their last three albums. Metallica fell out of my Top 10 bands a long time ago, and the door is still open for them, but I'm not going to be pissed off anymore if they don't reopen it.
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This frustrated Queensryche fan looks at Promised Land, which is basically Queensryche's Load, and thinks how on earth is this two albums removed from O:M?
No, it isn't :biggrin:
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There has been plenty of good and balanced discussion in this thread, and I don't have a ton to add...
I'll just say that, yes, it's pretty obvious Metallica have outgrown "thrash metal" (even their own version of it, which arguably was already different than what other thrash bands were doing by the...mid 80s maybe?), and I don't necessarily have a problem with that, per se. I do look for some energy and "flair" in Metallica songs, though. I try and set realistic expectations for a new Metallica record. In this respect, Hardwired, with all its flaws, surpassed my expectations at the time. It certainly wasn't AJFA Metallica, but it was a version of Metallica I thoroughly enjoyed - a good chunk of tunes were vital, riffy and energetic. 72 Seasons, on the other hand, ended up below my expectations and was a disappointment (for me). Nothing too dramatically different from Hardwired, stylistically. But, with a few exceptions, less exciting to my ears.
I do however agree that Hetfield sounds very good on it.
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METALlica is no longer METAL. I don't consider what they've done the last couple records to really be metal, much less thrash, at all, really. Some moments, but not really. And how can a band whose name is METALLICA not be as heavy as they used to be? I know that's completely unfair. I do. But as a fan of their truly metal years, it bothers me.
Of course they are metal. I have no idea how they would be classified as anything else. And you even reference that your opinion on this is unfair.
Hef, you say they've likely "outgrown" thrash metal. I'd argue that you don't "outgrow" music. I'm still a metal guy in my late-40s, like I've been since my pre-teen years. Do I like OTHER music now? Absolutely. But my bread and butter is still heavy music. "Outgrow" means to say that something is immature. Thrash metal is absolutely NOT immature, and there is never a need to "outgrow" that type of music.
You certainly speak from your own experience. But in MY experience, you can certainly outgrow some music. When I was in high school, I listened to a lot of glam metal, hair metal, and other cock rock. I don't know about you, but I have absolutely outgrown that shit. I'm not grouping thrash in general in with that, just pointing out an example.
And while you still love it, there is a huge difference between LISTENING to music and CREATING music, knowing that it has to be recorded and then toured on, played night after night, because it's your job. I can absolutely see a scenario where that specific style is no longer meaningful to the band to create. Call it outgrow or whatever word works for you. If they still found it meaningful and fulfilling, they would be doing it. I would much rather have an artist I love create art that is meaningful to them, rather than crank out whatever they think I will like just so I keep buying their records.
If Metallica subscribes to that line of thinking (I don't know, I'm not them), then that's really a shame. Because that shits on everyone who supported them and still loves that style of music all these years.
It doesn't shit on anyone, because it isn't about them. It's about the band, and what they feel inside and want to create.
Bottom line though - that dude playing the 72 Seasons riffs are how, IMO, I want to hear that music. As a metal band. Not as a bunch of pampered "we'll put out whatever we want and feel and people will buy it" super stars.
So they shouldn't put out what they want to put out?
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The evolution thing is (like everything) subjective. I absolutely hear evolution in a band such as Death Angel. Megadeth evolved quite a bit through The World Needs a Hero, and then re-found their sound for a few albums before veering again and then finding their way back to thrash.
Testament evolved significantly, incorporating some heavier music into their sound before settling into a routine (their last couple records have been very formulaic).
I'm not saying that Metallica shouldn't evolve. I'm saying as a fan, I feel like they can evolve within the confines of the subgenre they created.
And that, honestly, is where the problem is for me, personally. METALlica is no longer METAL. I don't consider what they've done the last couple records to really be metal, much less thrash, at all, really. Some moments, but not really. And how can a band whose name is METALLICA not be as heavy as they used to be? I know that's completely unfair. I do. But as a fan of their truly metal years, it bothers me.
Hef, you say they've likely "outgrown" thrash metal. I'd argue that you don't "outgrow" music. I'm still a metal guy in my late-40s, like I've been since my pre-teen years. Do I like OTHER music now? Absolutely. But my bread and butter is still heavy music. "Outgrow" means to say that something is immature. Thrash metal is absolutely NOT immature, and there is never a need to "outgrow" that type of music.
If Metallica subscribes to that line of thinking (I don't know, I'm not them), then that's really a shame. Because that shits on everyone who supported them and still loves that style of music all these years.
Bottom line though - that dude playing the 72 Seasons riffs are how, IMO, I want to hear that music. As a metal band. Not as a bunch of pampered "we'll put out whatever we want and feel and people will buy it" super stars.
Some do and some don't. For the most part I still listen to what I liked back then, but not entirely. People DO change; even people's personalities can change over time (google it, it's true). Peter Gabriel is an almost entirely different artist than he was in Genesis, and I don't think anyone could accuse him of "immature work" in Genesis. I also think it's different for the artist and the listener, though. Granted Metallica is a bad example, because even their thrash albums are multi-platinum, but I think if you take "art" as the expression of an artist, the message and medium can and do change. Steve Martin, arguably one of the best standup comedians of all time, hasn't done standup in over forty years. He's got other, arguably more satisfying ways of getting whatever message he's trying to get across across.
I do hear you from the standpoint of wanting to hear a certain thing you know your favorite artist (or one of your favorites artists) can produce but DON'T. I have more than a handful of bands I like that I wish would do something different (why Marillion won't work with Dave Meegan again, or why Oasis had ANYONE writing songs other than the legendary Noel Gallagher is as baffling to me as why Metallica won't play thrash is to you). But it's not for me to reason why. Some people also like caviar and cauliflower. Also baffling.
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You definitely can outgrow things.
When I was 10, I was obsessed with the top 40 at the time. Such things included the pop stars of the late 70s, which included things like Barry Manilow. Sometimes when a Barry song comes on, I can still enjoy it for what it is (his live “very strange medley” is a hoot) and some of it is downright underrated (Lay Me Down is beautiful). But I honestly don’t listen to BM anymore because I outgrew him. It’s was sappy pop that is made for sappy pop fans and some of it is ok for what it is, and I’m sorry if this comes across a bit like Frasier, but still listening to Barry Manilow as an adult feels like someone saying a nursery rhyme is the greatest song ever written. If I were talking to someone who was an adult, who said that Barry Manilow was their favorite artist of all time I would feel like I was talking to somebody who never emotionally matured beyond their preteens.
And I guess as I hear myself say that I know that it’s not entirely true. It just feels that way. I admit that I can be a bit of a snob sometimes, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that I think that my opinion is the only right one. And I remind myself often that I shouldn’t take myself that seriously, so that’s why I will start making fun of myself. So my self-deprecating humor is a way of reminding myself to not take my snob side seriously
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Im a pretty big Metallica fan , I saw them early and often and spent time around them back then yada..
I will say James is a pretty serious fellow.. He aint messing around, I was at times taken back by his aggression and focus back then to make sure they were on point , Kirk was next with that and Lars and Cliff were shall we say less focused and more into the partying life and being rocks tars and enjoying the lifestyle ( Im sure much of this all known as they have faced their demons) to my point... my point is 72 Seasons is not "weakened" to me its really really good as they really IMO gave their fans a super CD at their age, to me IMO when a band hits mid 50s and now 60s they either grow their art or to me they are not very good and just stay in their box to get sheep to buy more of the same. also my current GF before me would never like Metallica nor did I get her to try to like them , But 72 Seasons I got and put on and she loved it, so this CD for people my age ( aka old lol ) are very very happy with 72 seasons... I hear many of the old licks woven in even. I dont find it weak or not "thrashy" enough, nor do I feel they bowed to make an AOR friendly CD
Im diggin it and happy for them and I think they did a really good job of pleasing the old fans and making it "friendly" enough new fans can be made with it. granted this is a very very very rich band and dont need money nor do they need new fans, I think these are just songs they created at this moment in time and its a gift at their age for us all
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You definitely can outgrow things.
When I was 10, I was obsessed with the top 40 at the time. Such things included the pop stars of the late 70s, which included things like Barry Manilow. Sometimes when a Barry song comes on, I can still enjoy it for what it is (his live “very strange medley” is a hoot) and some of it is downright underrated (Lay Me Down is beautiful). But I honestly don’t listen to BM anymore because I outgrew him. It’s was sappy pop that is made for sappy pop fans and some of it is ok for what it is, and I’m sorry if this comes across a bit like Frasier, but still listening to Barry Manilow as an adult feels like someone saying a nursery rhyme is the greatest song ever written. If I were talking to someone who was an adult, who said that Barry Manilow was their favorite artist of all time I would feel like I was talking to somebody who never emotionally matured beyond their preteens.
And I guess as I hear myself say that I know that it’s not entirely true. It just feels that way. I admit that I can be a bit of a snob sometimes, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that I think that my opinion is the only right one. And I remind myself often that I shouldn’t take myself that seriously, so that’s why I will start making fun of myself. So my self-deprecating humor is a way of reminding myself to not take my snob side seriously
agreed .... I was involved in the metal scene in the 80s and have "outgrown" so much of it ( hef said it well) I cherish the memories of the fun and amazing times ,decadence and outrageous behavior that will never ever be recreated in todays world of cell phones and lack of privacy, BUT so much of the music Ive either "worn out in my brain" or "dont really like very much now or it feels silly" or "I dont have the time for again" some are classics but 80% is not classic but was filler even back then" even my beloved QR I dont listen to much as "been there done that" and again its the memories that I cherish more than the songs.
Hope that made sense , yea I know I suck at typing
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METALlica is no longer METAL. I don't consider what they've done the last couple records to really be metal, much less thrash, at all, really. Some moments, but not really. And how can a band whose name is METALLICA not be as heavy as they used to be? I know that's completely unfair. I do. But as a fan of their truly metal years, it bothers me.
Of course they are metal. I have no idea how they would be classified as anything else. And you even reference that your opinion on this is unfair.
I agree with Hef. Of course Metallica are still playing metal, d'uh. 72 Seasons is definitively a metal album, and it's heavy, and anyone who is not a metal fan could never digest it or enjoy. I find it uninspired, too same-y, too long and with many songs needing a good trimming, but going as far as saying it's not a metal album...... come on!
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Musicians should be able to make whatever music they want. We, as consumers of music, are just along for the ride.
Personally, I don't like to compartmentalize music, only because of what music is. It's fascinating to me how many sounds can harmonize to create what we humans know as music. I can hear music everywhere, as all music is just vibrations and every noise, every sound, anything that makes a sound, can be used to create music. I love the way this concept of manipulating Sound to create Music is presented by Nightwish.
It seems to me that Samsara doesn't enjoy the tone of modern day Metallica. I understand that. Tone is vital to how humans appreciate certain sounds, which also means music. How humans react to certain tones is why alarms, and certain devices to make us aware of situations or things, are in that tone of noise.
I also don't necessarily think that music evolves, it's rather a humans perception of sound, tone, and music "evolves". I don't think it really evolves, but more so the human mind becomes more aware and appreciative to other tones, sounds, and music. Like how some people find certain sounds soothing and calming, or can "block" out certain noises and sounds.
As I grew older, my perception of music has drastically opened up a lot more. I listen to bands I use to make fun of as a teen, and there are bands I should've just listened to as a teen when I first heard their name. I now also am exploring music of many different genres, there's so much easily accessible music out there from every genre that the odds of finding something I enjoy are quite good. When I go to various shows, I sort of find it hilarious and fun to see peoples reactions when I wear a shirt of an artist that's not from that genre, or dress differently from the crowd. But, what I love about music is how it does bring together many different types of people.
When you go to a Metallica show, it's not just metal heads anymore that are attending the show. So, there are many different perceptions of music attending the show, which all have different reasons for being there. Most of them are casual listeners who do not care about the musical aspect or the tone. They just want to hear Nothing Else Matters and Enter Sandman then go on their merry way. Or be like that guy in the Nothing Else Matters video posted that is like Nelson in The Simpsons (https://youtu.be/XnO2eMI4Hb0?t=17).
Honestly, I am just happy Metallica are finally creating music with Robert. They should've been doing this when he first joined the band. I have been enjoying some songs from the albums with Robert, and I think it'd be great if they play more of them in their sets with less classics in the set to spice things up there.
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METALlica is no longer METAL. I don't consider what they've done the last couple records to really be metal, much less thrash, at all, really. Some moments, but not really. And how can a band whose name is METALLICA not be as heavy as they used to be? I know that's completely unfair. I do. But as a fan of their truly metal years, it bothers me.
Of course they are metal. I have no idea how they would be classified as anything else. And you even reference that your opinion on this is unfair.
I agree with Hef. Of course Metallica are still playing metal, d'uh. 72 Seasons is definitively a metal album, and it's heavy, and anyone who is not a metal fan could never digest it or enjoy. I find it uninspired, too same-y, too long and with many songs needing a good trimming, but going as far as saying it's not a metal album...... come on!
I'm on this boat. Even my cousin, whom Metallica is his favorite band, told me that 72 seasons was alright and that Inamorata is one of the only good songs. He loves Lars as a drummer, he's one of his influences to start playing drums, but he said it feels like lars is just dialing it in as well.
I don't enjoy the mix of the album, nor the tone of it. But, I do enjoy the songs themselves. This for me is why I would likely enjoy the songs live if I were to attend a show.
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METALlica is no longer METAL. I don't consider what they've done the last couple records to really be metal, much less thrash, at all, really. Some moments, but not really. And how can a band whose name is METALLICA not be as heavy as they used to be? I know that's completely unfair. I do. But as a fan of their truly metal years, it bothers me.
Of course they are metal. I have no idea how they would be classified as anything else. And you even reference that your opinion on this is unfair.
I agree with Hef. Of course Metallica are still playing metal, d'uh. 72 Seasons is definitively a metal album, and it's heavy, and anyone who is not a metal fan could never digest it or enjoy. I find it uninspired, too same-y, too long and with many songs needing a good trimming, but going as far as saying it's not a metal album...... come on!
I do agree IMO some of the songs could be trimmed a minute.. I dont find it "samey" but a few could just be a tad shorter to my ears but Im fine with it : )
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Just to chip in and say I don't look at Metallica and see (recent) evolution or outgrowing anything. Just aren't the words I'd use.
They experimented for a while from Load until St Anger, largely unsuccessfully imo except for Load, but then returned to their core place, just a little less angry. Nothing wrong with that but they've not been interesting enough in later years to be classed as evolvers nor childish enough in their classic phase to be able to outgrow it. KEA was certainly green and youthful but nothing else was.
They've settled into a comfortable musical armchair from DM, HWTSD and 72S. I'm still really enjoying the last one. Stylistically very much the same as HW but with a more natural feel, to my ears. (HW never connected with me, although I like a few songs)
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Just to chip in and say I don't look at Metallica and see (recent) evolution or outgrowing anything. Just aren't the words I'd use.
They experimented for a while from Load until St Anger, largely unsuccessfully imo except for Load, but then returned to their core place, just a little less angry. Nothing wrong with that but they've not been interesting enough in later years to be classed as evolvers nor childish enough in their classic phase to be able to outgrow it. KEA was certainly green and youthful but nothing else was.
They've settled into a comfortable musical armchair from DM, HWTSD and 72S. I'm still really enjoying the last one. Stylistically very much the same as HW but with a more natural feel, to my ears. (HW never connected with me, although I like a few songs)
I find it hilarious you typed this about experimenting with St. Anger after I watched a video of James Hetfield's reaction to more fans booing St. Anger before playing the song. He asked what the fans honest opinion was about St. Anger, he gave a thumbs down, many booed, and some cheered when he gave the thumbs up. He then said, "Let's give it another shot."
St. Anger is interesting as an album. It captures the band at a certain mindset and moment in time. This moment wasn't a good moment either. All the tension, all the struggles, and the situations the band was going through collectively are captured by the tone and sound of St. Anger. Even that snare drum tone has it's place in how the tone of the album reflects this disparate moment in the bands life.
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Interesting opinions. I see Hef's point about glam metal. I think that yes, you can outgrow an image, or a...style of lyric. I loved that stuff in the 80s, but listening back to Skid Row's "Rattlesnake Shake," I can't even sing it any longer because it makes me just laugh. LOL. But "outgrowing" a genre-defining style of music? Metallica was the epitome of thrash metal. They haven't been since 1992. What if Dream Theater, who, for all intents and purposes redefined what "progressive metal" is over the last 30 years (after QR and FW really made it a thing), just abandoned that genre entirely and wrote all 3 minute songs in 4/4 time? You'd say DT "outgrew" prog? :lol
Look, all the defenders of Metallica's music are going to dwarf any naysayers. Obviously, music is subjective on top of that. I just have a hard time with a genre-defining artist abandoning what they do best. That guy who replayed the 72 Seasons riffs explains my point without saying a word. The music is still there. Metallica choose not to be like that. And while that is their right to do so, I feel it's pretty hard to stomach from a band that calls itself METALLICA.
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Interesting opinions. I see Hef's point about glam metal. I think that yes, you can outgrow an image, or a...style of lyric. I loved that stuff in the 80s, but listening back to Skid Row's "Rattlesnake Shake," I can't even sing it any longer because it makes me just laugh. LOL. But "outgrowing" a genre-defining style of music? Metallica was the epitome of thrash metal. They haven't been since 1992. What if Dream Theater, who, for all intents and purposes redefined what "progressive metal" is over the last 30 years (after QR and FW really made it a thing), just abandoned that genre entirely and wrote all 3 minute songs in 4/4 time? You'd say DT "outgrew" prog? :lol
Look, all the defenders of Metallica's music are going to dwarf any naysayers. Obviously, music is subjective on top of that. I just have a hard time with a genre-defining artist abandoning what they do best. That guy who replayed the 72 Seasons riffs explains my point without saying a word. The music is still there. Metallica choose not to be like that. And while that is their right to do so, I feel it's pretty hard to stomach from a band that calls itself METALLICA.
Isn’t it kind of in the nature of progressive metal to lend itself to different sounds anyway?
Metallica’s constant evolution is unique. Without it, they’d be Megadeth. Now whether that’s for better or worse is another discussion entirely.
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And while that is their right to do so, I feel it's pretty hard to stomach from a band that calls itself METALLICA.
I think you're placing too much value on the band's name. We all came up with names for things in the past that may have little relevance to today for whatever reason. Goodness knows, I'd change my username here if I could :biggrin: Besides that, Metallica are still playing metal even if it's not your preferred variety or the type on which they made their name.
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I find it hilarious you typed this about experimenting with St. Anger after I watched a video of James Hetfield's reaction to more fans booing St. Anger before playing the song. He asked what the fans honest opinion was about St. Anger, he gave a thumbs down, many booed, and some cheered when he gave the thumbs up. He then said, "Let's give it another shot."
Ha! That's pretty cool.
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Interesting opinions. I see Hef's point about glam metal. I think that yes, you can outgrow an image, or a...style of lyric. I loved that stuff in the 80s, but listening back to Skid Row's "Rattlesnake Shake," I can't even sing it any longer because it makes me just laugh. LOL. But "outgrowing" a genre-defining style of music? Metallica was the epitome of thrash metal. They haven't been since 1992. What if Dream Theater, who, for all intents and purposes redefined what "progressive metal" is over the last 30 years (after QR and FW really made it a thing), just abandoned that genre entirely and wrote all 3 minute songs in 4/4 time? You'd say DT "outgrew" prog? :lol
Look, all the defenders of Metallica's music are going to dwarf any naysayers. Obviously, music is subjective on top of that. I just have a hard time with a genre-defining artist abandoning what they do best. That guy who replayed the 72 Seasons riffs explains my point without saying a word. The music is still there. Metallica choose not to be like that. And while that is their right to do so, I feel it's pretty hard to stomach from a band that calls itself METALLICA.
Samsara, I really don't mean to DIRECTLY quote you, though your post helped crystallize the point, but to everyone: why the judgment? Why the need to quantify everything? I don't know what Metallica does best; only they do. I don't know what songs are "better" in terms of their achieving a goal, only they do. Metallica isn't the first band to move on to something else, and yet I can't help - knowing that in MY life I've moved on from some things and not from others - that I don't put a judgement on MY moving on, why should they? (And usually I don't project this way, but they - or at least James - is heavy in therapy, and I've personally had this conversation with my therapist lately after losing my parents).
In a lot of ways I'm the same as I was when I got out of college, but in a lot of ways I'm not. I HOPE I've, if not "matured", I've become more efficient, more "better" at certain things - relationships, work, whatever. I still have moments of doing what I did when I was 20, but whether I can or not, I DON'T WANT TO. I've done the "pack a bag, we're going to watch Uconn in Kentucky!" I still watch Uconn, but we congregate at someone's house and do it that way. Close but not the same; better in some ways, not as good in others.
Musically, that's, I think, where Metallica is. Rush and Genesis (King Crimson, too) were all there. They did the traditional "prog" thing, and for various reasons it got stale for them. I know for a fact that Genesis - who started as songwriters - thought it was more of a challenge to them and more of an example of growth, to get away from just tacking bits together ("Supper's Ready", or the entire "Lamb..." piece) and try to do more COMPOSITIONS; as complicated in their own way, even if they SOUNDED "simpler" ("One For The Vine" or "Me And Sarah Jane" are not "simple" even if they sound that way). Same with Rush; "Hold Your Fire" is a far better example of their SONGWRITING (I believe every one of them could be an acoustic song with little problem) than, say "2112".
I think Metallica is now the sum of their parts. I haven't heard all of 72 Seasons yet, but for me, Hardwired is "AJFA..." and "TBA" and "Loads" all churned up in a blender. Not better, or worse, but the amalgamation of all of their experience wrapped up in one package.
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Ehhh, just for the heck of it and maybe still a little early but here's my ranking of the Comeback Era songs with Rob (not counting Lulu of course):
Spit out the Bone
All Nightmare Long
Inamorata
Chasing Light
Moth into the Flame
The Day That Never Comes
Halo on Fire
Broken Beat & Scarred
Room of Mirrors
72 Seasons
Lords of Summer
That Was Just Your Life
Hardwired
Rebel of Babylon
My Apocalypse
Hell and Back
Atlas Rise!
Too Far Gone?
End of the Line
Shadows Follow
Here Comes Revenge
Hate Train
Suicide and Redemption
Lux Aeterna
Confusion
Screaming Suicide
Judas Kiss
Just a Bullet Away
Dream No More
Now That We're Dead
If Darkness Had a Son
Cyanide
Am I Savage?
Unforgiven III
Manunkind
You Must Burn!
Sleepwalk My Life Away
Murder One
Crown of Barbed Wire
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Ehhh, just for the heck of it and maybe still a little early but here's my ranking of the Comeback Era songs with Rob (not counting Lulu of course):
Oh shit! Now I gotta spend all day trying to do this? :lol
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Ehhh, just for the heck of it and maybe still a little early but here's my ranking of the Comeback Era songs with Rob (not counting Lulu of course):
Oh shit! Now I gotta spend all day trying to do this? :lol
Nope!
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For me it's always been simple. I like the music or I don't. Bands can change, recording methodologies can change, times can change but the music connects or it doesn't.
Possibly repeating myself but this is certainly a metal album. Heavy!
Funny thing is, my story is similar to Stads in that, yes, I certainly knew the band well in their early days but I was listening to other bands I liked better. Now I find myself really digging their recent output.
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I like this BangerTV channel in general and this double review of 72S is a fun watch.
https://youtu.be/2s8L4iK9B2E (https://youtu.be/2s8L4iK9B2E)
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Musicians should be able to make whatever music they want. We, as consumers of music, are just along for the ride.
Personally, I don't like to compartmentalize music, only because of what music is. It's fascinating to me how many sounds can harmonize to create what we humans know as music. I can hear music everywhere, as all music is just vibrations and every noise, every sound, anything that makes a sound, can be used to create music. I love the way this concept of manipulating Sound to create Music is presented by Nightwish.
It seems to me that Samsara doesn't enjoy the tone of modern day Metallica. I understand that. Tone is vital to how humans appreciate certain sounds, which also means music. How humans react to certain tones is why alarms, and certain devices to make us aware of situations or things, are in that tone of noise.
I also don't necessarily think that music evolves, it's rather a humans perception of sound, tone, and music "evolves". I don't think it really evolves, but more so the human mind becomes more aware and appreciative to other tones, sounds, and music. Like how some people find certain sounds soothing and calming, or can "block" out certain noises and sounds.
As I grew older, my perception of music has drastically opened up a lot more. I listen to bands I use to make fun of as a teen, and there are bands I should've just listened to as a teen when I first heard their name. I now also am exploring music of many different genres, there's so much easily accessible music out there from every genre that the odds of finding something I enjoy are quite good. When I go to various shows, I sort of find it hilarious and fun to see peoples reactions when I wear a shirt of an artist that's not from that genre, or dress differently from the crowd. But, what I love about music is how it does bring together many different types of people.
When you go to a Metallica show, it's not just metal heads anymore that are attending the show. So, there are many different perceptions of music attending the show, which all have different reasons for being there. Most of them are casual listeners who do not care about the musical aspect or the tone. They just want to hear Nothing Else Matters and Enter Sandman then go on their merry way. Or be like that guy in the Nothing Else Matters video posted that is like Nelson in The Simpsons (https://youtu.be/XnO2eMI4Hb0?t=17).
Honestly, I am just happy Metallica are finally creating music with Robert. They should've been doing this when he first joined the band. I have been enjoying some songs from the albums with Robert, and I think it'd be great if they play more of them in their sets with less classics in the set to spice things up there.
I like this post ^
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What do you guys think about the band self-covering their older songs with current setups and sounds? Maybe not an entire album in its entirety, but fans' favorites from each of their first 5 albums up until the black album. It may be a stupid idea, but Taylor Swift had done it, why not?
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What do you guys think about the band self-covering their older songs with current setups and sounds? Maybe not an entire album in its entirety, but fans' favorites from each of their first 5 albums up until the black album. It may be a stupid idea, but Taylor Swift had done it, why not?
A lot of people dislike this approach I feel. But personally I just do not enjoy 80's/early 90's metal sound production, sounds thin and harsh to me. So I often prefer later rerecordings / live versions (and modern works) because of it, despite loudness/compression being a problem. So I would probably like this.
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What do you guys think about the band self-covering their older songs with current setups and sounds? Maybe not an entire album in its entirety, but fans' favorites from each of their first 5 albums up until the black album. It may be a stupid idea, but Taylor Swift had done it, why not?
I wouldn't have a problem with this. Even put it up to a fan vote. I just wouldn't want it to be my once in 7 years album.
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What do you guys think about the band self-covering their older songs with current setups and sounds? Maybe not an entire album in its entirety, but fans' favorites from each of their first 5 albums up until the black album. It may be a stupid idea, but Taylor Swift had done it, why not?
The difference is Taylor Swift did it because she got manipulated into signing a bad contract when she was young so she didn’t have ownership of her master tracks and couldn’t make money from her albums, and she decided to re-record those albums as a fuck you to her old label and now she’s able to make money off of the re-recorded versions and she has ownership of those master tracks as well. Metallica owns all of their master tracks and royalties. They have no need to do what Taylor did as almost every cent of their album sales goes to the band already.
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Samsara, I really don't mean to DIRECTLY quote you, though your post helped crystallize the point, but to everyone: why the judgment? Why the need to quantify everything? I don't know what Metallica does best; only they do. I don't know what songs are "better" in terms of their achieving a goal, only they do.
Because of the age-old ying and yang - we are the consumers of their art. Yes, it's art. Yes, they have a right to do what they want. But as consumers of art, we are free to judge it. We bought/listened to it, we have a right to quantify it and judge what we feel is "best." That's why.
I'm not saying I don't appreciate a mentality like yours that tries to sit above all that (although you don't - you have, with other music discussions in the past, taken the very approach you here are questioning). But the bottom line for me is, the artist creates the art, the consumer of the art is allowed to be critical of it, if that art doesn't move them.
Metallica isn't the first band to move on to something else, and yet I can't help - knowing that in MY life I've moved on from some things and not from others - that I don't put a judgement on MY moving on, why should they? (And usually I don't project this way, but they - or at least James - is heavy in therapy, and I've personally had this conversation with my therapist lately after losing my parents).
In a lot of ways I'm the same as I was when I got out of college, but in a lot of ways I'm not. I HOPE I've, if not "matured", I've become more efficient, more "better" at certain things - relationships, work, whatever. I still have moments of doing what I did when I was 20, but whether I can or not, I DON'T WANT TO. I've done the "pack a bag, we're going to watch Uconn in Kentucky!" I still watch Uconn, but we congregate at someone's house and do it that way. Close but not the same; better in some ways, not as good in others.
Musically, that's, I think, where Metallica is. Rush and Genesis (King Crimson, too) were all there. They did the traditional "prog" thing, and for various reasons it got stale for them. I know for a fact that Genesis - who started as songwriters - thought it was more of a challenge to them and more of an example of growth, to get away from just tacking bits together ("Supper's Ready", or the entire "Lamb..." piece) and try to do more COMPOSITIONS; as complicated in their own way, even if they SOUNDED "simpler" ("One For The Vine" or "Me And Sarah Jane" are not "simple" even if they sound that way). Same with Rush; "Hold Your Fire" is a far better example of their SONGWRITING (I believe every one of them could be an acoustic song with little problem) than, say "2112".
I think Metallica is now the sum of their parts. I haven't heard all of 72 Seasons yet, but for me, Hardwired is "AJFA..." and "TBA" and "Loads" all churned up in a blender. Not better, or worse, but the amalgamation of all of their experience wrapped up in one package.
Look, I hear ya about "moving on." But with Metallica, for ME, it's a little different. They set the template. Took that template as far as they thought it could go with AJFA (and I've read they said that). So I totally understand the Black album. And while there are good songs on everything since (Bleeding Me comes to mind immediately, and there are obviously for me quite a few more), they almost sound like a totally different band. Whereas a lot of thrash bands did this, they all, for the most part, came back around to their bread and butter. With Metallica, they chose not to. And that's fine, that's their choice. Totally. But as a consumer and fan of their music, when they put out music that doesn't connect with me, I'm free to say that. We all can. Or, we all can choose not to say a thing. Or if you like it, you can choose to praise it. At the end of the day, how we each take in new music is unique, as is our expression of what it sounds like to us.
For me, after listening to that fan do the riffs in 72 Seasons with the tones of AJFA infuriated me. Because hearing it that way, it became very clear that the Metallica I loved is still there, and they write that way. But they make a conscious choice not to sound like a thrash band. Which is their choice - but not one I appreciate as a fan of the genre. It's almost like a slap in the face. Like, what are they too full of themselves to embrace what they were? Because obviously, it's still there. And for ME, I don't think what they've done post-Justice holds a candle to RTL-MoP-AJFA.
And it's absolutely okay for me to say that and argue the point. As it is absolutely okay for anyone to disagree with me and say that too. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I just think Metallica has been a huge disappointment. The Black album, I absolutely get. Even the Load era, to a degree - branching out. But everything since then...St Anger (total trash), Death Magnetic (the most contrived record I've ever heard), Hardwired (sort of a throwback with nods to the past and 70s riffs, but a few real good tunes), and now 72 Seasons (super slick, riffs made so warm they sound like a heavied up classic rock band - yet a fan can make those riffs sound like what Metallica was), all of that, to ME, is a band running from its heritage.
Go ahead and disagree. It's what this place is for, right? Conversation? But for me, when I hear a fan take 72 Seasons riffs and play them like classic Metallica, it is just plain infuriating that the band still writes killer material, but purposefully distances itself from the genre they helped define. It's like they feel like they are "too good" to be a part of it. Fuck that. Yes, it is their choice, and that is absolutely fine. *I* don't dictate what they should or shouldn't do. But that's how it comes off to me, and it's a huge disappointment.
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For me, after listening to that fan do the riffs in 72 Seasons with the tones of AJFA infuriated me. Because hearing it that way, it became very clear that the Metallica I loved is still there, and they write that way. But they make a conscious choice not to sound like a thrash band. Which is their choice - but not one I appreciate as a fan of the genre. It's almost like a slap in the face. Like, what are they too full of themselves to embrace what they were? Because obviously, it's still there. And for ME, I don't think what they've done post-Justice holds a candle to RTL-MoP-AJFA.
When the new album came out, Metallica.com put out some interviews with each of the guys (So What - the fan newsletter?) and James talked about how he's always looking for THE TONE when it comes to his guitars, and how he goes back to certain guitars (his OG flying V from the Kill Em All days) due to how they sound.
When the Justice box-set came out, James also had a quote about how adamant he was to not re-mix the record and fix the bass guitar sound. He views the albums as a snapshot in time, and they're not going to go backwards on their art and make changes. It remains what it was.
I'm just speculating on the two ideas above, but I think he, and the band, very much have a "been there, done that" attitude towards the past and they are always looking to move forward, do something new and remain creative in every aspect, whether it's setlists, tours, the pop-up club shows, albums and even guitar sounds, etc. It also seems to apply to the sound and tone of their music - they've been that thrash band, so it's time to see what else they can be.
I view them like I do Maiden - they could easily put out old-school styled albums and fans would eat it up, myself included. But it doesn't satisfy their need to be creative and be who they are in the now, which is why the newer music isn't the same style as the older songs.
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For me, after listening to that fan do the riffs in 72 Seasons with the tones of AJFA infuriated me. Because hearing it that way, it became very clear that the Metallica I loved is still there, and they write that way. But they make a conscious choice not to sound like a thrash band. Which is their choice - but not one I appreciate as a fan of the genre. It's almost like a slap in the face. Like, what are they too full of themselves to embrace what they were? Because obviously, it's still there. And for ME, I don't think what they've done post-Justice holds a candle to RTL-MoP-AJFA.
When the new album came out, Metallica.com put out some interviews with each of the guys (So What - the fan newsletter?) and James talked about how he's always looking for THE TONE when it comes to his guitars, and how he goes back to certain guitars (his OG flying V from the Kill Em All days) due to how they sound.
When the Justice box-set came out, James also had a quote about how adamant he was to not re-mix the record and fix the bass guitar sound. He views the albums as a snapshot in time, and they're not going to go backwards on their art and make changes. It remains what it was.
I'm just speculating on the two ideas above, but I think he, and the band, very much have a "been there, done that" attitude towards the past and they are always looking to move forward, do something new and remain creative in every aspect, whether it's setlists, tours, the pop-up club shows, albums and even guitar sounds, etc. It also seems to apply to the sound and tone of their music - they've been that thrash band, so it's time to see what else they can be.
I view them like I do Maiden - they could easily put out old-school styled albums and fans would eat it up, myself included. But it doesn't satisfy their need to be creative and be who they are in the now, which is why the newer music isn't the same style as the older songs.
They totally have this attitude, and it's the primary reason why I still find myself returning to their catalog (especially the Load era) in my mid 40's. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Slayer and Testament and Motorhead, but at this stage in my life, I pop those albums in once in a blue moon, where as with Metallica, I am returning over and over again.
As for this new album, it has really grown on me...like, a lot.
I don't know if it's the lyrical consistency or Jamees' impassioned performance, but there's something about this album that is connecting with me on a level that Hardwired, DM, and St. Anger have never approached.
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Samsara, I really don't mean to DIRECTLY quote you, though your post helped crystallize the point, but to everyone: why the judgment? Why the need to quantify everything? I don't know what Metallica does best; only they do. I don't know what songs are "better" in terms of their achieving a goal, only they do.
Because of the age-old ying and yang - we are the consumers of their art. Yes, it's art. Yes, they have a right to do what they want. But as consumers of art, we are free to judge it. We bought/listened to it, we have a right to quantify it and judge what we feel is "best." That's why.
I'm not saying I don't appreciate a mentality like yours that tries to sit above all that (although you don't - you have, with other music discussions in the past, taken the very approach you here are questioning). But the bottom line for me is, the artist creates the art, the consumer of the art is allowed to be critical of it, if that art doesn't move them.
Well, yes, but while I'm not perfect, I try VERY hard to keep my judgment in a box in the sense that it's only my viewpoint, it doesn't trump or overwhelm the underlying point that it's THEIR art, THEIR choice. Unless I have written proof of it, I try VERY hard not to assume intents or what the artist is feeling (and, given some of the artists I listen to, maybe not even then!). There are very few bands I listen to that aren't doing SOMETHING that I'd prefer to see different, and I voice that, because that's why we're here, but it's always caveated - even implicitly - that I do not AND SHOULD NOT - have any influence over the band. What THEY want to give us is what matters most only.
Look, I hear ya about "moving on." But with Metallica, for ME, it's a little different. They set the template. Took that template as far as they thought it could go with AJFA (and I've read they said that). So I totally understand the Black album. And while there are good songs on everything since (Bleeding Me comes to mind immediately, and there are obviously for me quite a few more), they almost sound like a totally different band. Whereas a lot of thrash bands did this, they all, for the most part, came back around to their bread and butter. With Metallica, they chose not to. And that's fine, that's their choice. Totally. But as a consumer and fan of their music, when they put out music that doesn't connect with me, I'm free to say that. We all can. Or, we all can choose not to say a thing. Or if you like it, you can choose to praise it. At the end of the day, how we each take in new music is unique, as is our expression of what it sounds like to us.
For me, after listening to that fan do the riffs in 72 Seasons with the tones of AJFA infuriated me. Because hearing it that way, it became very clear that the Metallica I loved is still there, and they write that way. But they make a conscious choice not to sound like a thrash band. Which is their choice - but not one I appreciate as a fan of the genre. It's almost like a slap in the face. Like, what are they too full of themselves to embrace what they were? Because obviously, it's still there. And for ME, I don't think what they've done post-Justice holds a candle to RTL-MoP-AJFA.
And it's absolutely okay for me to say that and argue the point. As it is absolutely okay for anyone to disagree with me and say that too. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I just think Metallica has been a huge disappointment. The Black album, I absolutely get. Even the Load era, to a degree - branching out. But everything since then...St Anger (total trash), Death Magnetic (the most contrived record I've ever heard), Hardwired (sort of a throwback with nods to the past and 70s riffs, but a few real good tunes), and now 72 Seasons (super slick, riffs made so warm they sound like a heavied up classic rock band - yet a fan can make those riffs sound like what Metallica was), all of that, to ME, is a band running from its heritage.
Go ahead and disagree. It's what this place is for, right? Conversation? But for me, when I hear a fan take 72 Seasons riffs and play them like classic Metallica, it is just plain infuriating that the band still writes killer material, but purposefully distances itself from the genre they helped define. It's like they feel like they are "too good" to be a part of it. Fuck that. Yes, it is their choice, and that is absolutely fine. *I* don't dictate what they should or shouldn't do. But that's how it comes off to me, and it's a huge disappointment.
We can and do - and I hope we continue to discuss. Whether I agree or not (and I agree with more than it seems, it seems) your point of view is always - ALWAYS - delivered with what seems to be care and intellectual integrity, so it's fun to read.
As for what we agree on, most of it. I can accept that they produce the art and we consume it. I agree we can comment on it and observe. Though always with the caveat that it's our opinion and we can't really superimpose our value judgments on others. But where we diverge is the assumption that YOU'RE right - that other thrash bands have stayed true, as opposed to the alternate take, which is THEY are the pretenders, THEY are the ones faking it in order to garner false cred for having "inregrity" - and that somehow Metallica isn't being "true" to some arbitrary standard.
Assume, ass, you, me. I can't assume ANYTHING about Metallica's music except THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT TO PLAY. I don't see how we can then assume they're not being honest with us or themselves about the music they produce. Sure, they might write riffs that would sound good in the old style; it's STILL James, and the record IS "72 Seasons" for all that means. But James et al. made their choices as to the sounds they used. We can only assume that the sounds they chose TODAY are the sounds they want to project whatever it is they want to say (I don't know and I won't guess). Even for me, even with the music I haven't grown out of, I don't always listen to it in the same way. Kiss - who I love - means something VERY different to me today than they did in '79. King Crimson the same way (read some of the liner notes from Fripp from the box sets; he says a lot of what I'm saying and much better). All of that is on ME, though, not the artist.
I get you're disappointed. I'm disappointed that Blackmore won't do more like Rainbow. I just don't get how that's HIS fault.
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Ha! Don't get me started on Blackmore, Stads. :lol
Yeah, we're always good my man. And appreciate the compliments and that you understand where I'm coming from. And I think likewise about your commentary.
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I just listened to the first half, it's decent. I love Sleepwalk the most so far.
Lux sounds weird among these longer songs. Feels like a radio edit.
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Ha! Don't get me started on Blackmore, Stads. :lol
Yeah, we're always good my man. And appreciate the compliments and that you understand where I'm coming from. And I think likewise about your commentary.
All sincere. :tup
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Flipping heck. Inamorata just sounds like CLASSIC METAL, ffs. Great.
EDIT: Obvs, the album has been on heavy rotation for a bit bit it just hit me tonight after a couple of beers what an immense groove that is. :metal
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Flipping heck. Inamorata just sounds like CLASSIC METAL, ffs. Great.
EDIT: Obvs, the album has been on heavy rotation for a bit bit it just hit me tonight after a couple of beers what an immense groove that is. :metal
It's the one song that hasn't improved any for me!?
Yet with just a couple exceptions which tbh doubt will warm more to those, the remainder of the album is excellent and am finding more to like with each spin \m/
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Watched a couple vids from the 4/29 Amsterdam show. They were super energetic and tight. The title track, 72 Seasons was awesome.
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Very cool to see Epica now get the call for replacing FFDP at the next two stops. I wish Epica would replace them in NJ.
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Watched a couple vids from the 4/29 Amsterdam show. They were super energetic and tight. The title track, 72 Seasons was awesome.
Yes, this was the show I saw and they were really vital and energetic overall. James sounded great.
Due to your post I saw Metallica uploaded two pro-shot clips, cool. Do they do this for every show?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeSbtQWrPs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeSbtQWrPs) 72 Seasons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqVVsy9cPC0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqVVsy9cPC0) You Must Burn
I do not really enjoy their new album (listened to it after the concert), but I really enjoyed these tracks live.
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Watched a couple vids from the 4/29 Amsterdam show. They were super energetic and tight. The title track, 72 Seasons was awesome.
Yes, this was the show I saw and they were really vital and energetic overall. James sounded great.
Due to your post I saw Metallica uploaded two pro-shot clips, cool. Do they do this for every show?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeSbtQWrPs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeSbtQWrPs) 72 Seasons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqVVsy9cPC0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqVVsy9cPC0) You Must Burn
I do not really enjoy their new album (listened to it after the concert), but I really enjoyed these tracks live.
Yeah, for the past tours they've been releasing one song professionally done for each show for free on youtube. I think you can buy the entire show on their website. So I would expect more of these throughout the summer. The Amsterdam ones look/sound awesome.
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Flipping heck. Inamorata just sounds like CLASSIC METAL, ffs. Great.
EDIT: Obvs, the album has been on heavy rotation for a bit bit it just hit me tonight after a couple of beers what an immense groove that is. :metal
It's the one song that hasn't improved any for me!?
Yet with just a couple exceptions which tbh doubt will warm more to those, the remainder of the album is excellent and am finding more to like with each spin \m/
:tup
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Most high school talent shows leave a lot to be desired, but this cover of Disposable Heroes is amazing. 10/10, except for the sound quality. It's good enough to hear how they're nailing it, though.
https://youtu.be/deYcLLR2ExM
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Watched a couple vids from the 4/29 Amsterdam show. They were super energetic and tight. The title track, 72 Seasons was awesome.
Yes, this was the show I saw and they were really vital and energetic overall. James sounded great.
Due to your post I saw Metallica uploaded two pro-shot clips, cool. Do they do this for every show?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeSbtQWrPs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeSbtQWrPs) 72 Seasons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqVVsy9cPC0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqVVsy9cPC0) You Must Burn
I do not really enjoy their new album (listened to it after the concert), but I really enjoyed these tracks live.
Yeah, for the past tours they've been releasing one song professionally done for each show for free on youtube. I think you can buy the entire show on their website. So I would expect more of these throughout the summer. The Amsterdam ones look/sound awesome.
That is really cool. Between this and the two completely different setlists in one city/town, I respect their approach to live concerts a lot. And I just checked, you can indeed buy CDs from every show. That is awesome.
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Watched a couple vids from the 4/29 Amsterdam show. They were super energetic and tight. The title track, 72 Seasons was awesome.
Yes, this was the show I saw and they were really vital and energetic overall. James sounded great.
Due to your post I saw Metallica uploaded two pro-shot clips, cool. Do they do this for every show?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeSbtQWrPs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeSbtQWrPs) 72 Seasons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqVVsy9cPC0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqVVsy9cPC0) You Must Burn
I do not really enjoy their new album (listened to it after the concert), but I really enjoyed these tracks live.
Yeah, for the past tours they've been releasing one song professionally done for each show for free on youtube. I think you can buy the entire show on their website. So I would expect more of these throughout the summer. The Amsterdam ones look/sound awesome.
That is really cool. Between this and the two completely different setlists in one city/town, I respect their approach to live concerts a lot. And I just checked, you can indeed buy CDs from every show. That is awesome.
Not sure they still do this (they didn't the last two times I saw them, but those were one off shows not during a tour) but when I saw them in 2018 on tour, you could use your ticket to get a free download of the concert you attended afterwords. So I have the full concert for the State College PA 2018 show on MP3 for example. I think it's awesome how they offer this. And even more incredible because they aren't a perfect performance band. Lars isn't great and the other guys have been known to screw up so youre live album will be warts and all. Add in different setlists and each night really can be a unique experience.
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Most high school talent shows leave a lot to be desired, but this cover of Disposable Heroes is amazing. 10/10, except for the sound quality. It's good enough to hear how they're nailing it, though.
https://youtu.be/deYcLLR2ExM
13 1/2 year old video makes me wonder what they're doing now that they're presumably about 30. Also, I find the lack of a bass player disturbing.
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Most high school talent shows leave a lot to be desired, but this cover of Disposable Heroes is amazing. 10/10, except for the sound quality. It's good enough to hear how they're nailing it, though.
https://youtu.be/deYcLLR2ExM
13 1/2 year old video makes me wonder what they're doing now that they're presumably about 30. Also, I find the lack of a bass player disturbing.
Should've covered a song from Justice.
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:lol
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Most high school talent shows leave a lot to be desired, but this cover of Disposable Heroes is amazing. 10/10, except for the sound quality. It's good enough to hear how they're nailing it, though.
https://youtu.be/deYcLLR2ExM
13 1/2 year old video makes me wonder what they're doing now that they're presumably about 30. Also, I find the lack of a bass player disturbing.
Should've covered a song from Justice.
:lol
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So I'm revisiting Death Magnetic, and I think that's the last album where every song had its own "feel" and they consistently churned out some unique killer riffs. I haven't listened to the album in years, and I've forgotten how much I loved it. Cyanide is kinda meh, though.
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I really liked (and still like) Death Magnetic, but had a hard time getting into Hardwired partly because of the issue you mention (haven't listened to the new one yet). I agree that there's still a lot of distinctive stuff on DM (even though in terms of the overall direction it's obviously an attempt to revisit Justice). The first one that comes to mind right now is The End of the Line. Not a song people talk a lot about even on that album, but I really like it and it doesn't sound quite like anything else they've done.
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I really liked (and still like) Death Magnetic, but had a hard time getting into Hardwired partly because of the issue you mention (haven't listened to the new one yet). I agree that there's still a lot of distinctive stuff on DM (even though in terms of the overall direction it's obviously an attempt to revisit Justice). The first one that comes to mind right now is The End of the Line. Not a song people talk a lot about even on that album, but I really like it and it doesn't sound quite like anything else they've done.
Yeah, there are only two songs on Hardwired I actively listen to. Halo on Fire and Spit Out The Bone.
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Atlas Rise doesn’t get enough love
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Atlas Rise doesn’t get enough love
Good song, and I think it would really benefit from a more adventurous skilled drummer. There's just that main riff where Lars is sticking to accenting cymbals with snare fills. I just keep thinking how cool it would sound with different, more interesting drum parts over parts of it.
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So I'm revisiting Death Magnetic, and I think that's the last album where every song had its own "feel" and they consistently churned out some unique killer riffs. I haven't listened to the album in years, and I've forgotten how much I loved it. Cyanide is kinda meh, though.
Absolutely! KILLER riffs and energy.
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I love Death Magnetic. Most of it anyway. I find their last three albums are generally made up of 6 songs I love or really like, and 4 songs I skip.
But saying that, the three albums all get a big thumbs up from me.
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I love Death Magnetic. Most of it anyway. I find their last three albums are generally made up of 6 songs I love or really like, and 4 songs I skip.
But saying that, the three albums all get a big thumbs up from me.
Might raise it to seven or so songs each but otherwise yes agree!
Atlas Rise doesn’t get enough love
+1
I still like more of Hardwired than I do ReWired 72 Seasons and Magnetic but am still having a blast with Seasons regardless and repeat listens definitely a plus \m/
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On first listen, Seasons seemed one-dimensional.
But I put it in the car and listened to it almost exclusively for a couple of weeks.
Well, I think it’s their best thing for 30 years, maybe even as good as TBA.
AJFA is their pinnacle for me.
Seasons has great riffs, and it’s kinda unrelenting.
I need to revisit DM and HTSD and spend proper time with them. Maybe they’ll end up clicking in the same way.
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Death Magnetic is still their best post TBA-album, but I love Hardwired…to Self-Destruct and 72 Seasons as well. Both albums have a song that I rank among the best in their discography (Spit Out the Bone for HtSD and Inamorata for 72S), but DM just hits different.
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Death Magnetic is still their best post TBA-album, but I love Hardwired…to Self-Destruct and 72 Seasons as well. Both albums have a song that I rank among the best in their discography (Spit Out the Bone for HtSD and Inamorata for 72S), but DM just hits different.
I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of Spit Out the Bone and Inomanaramana.
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I hope they keep The Call Of Ktulu and Orion in the set list. I've never seen them played live.
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I hope they keep The Call Of Ktulu and Orion in the set list. I've never seen them played live.
I’m fortunate enough to have heard them both live. The Call of Ktulu I knew I was getting because they were playing Ride the Lightning back to front at that show, but Orion was a surprise and as a diehard Cliff Burton fanatic I legitimately almost cried.
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Watched a couple vids from the 4/29 Amsterdam show. They were super energetic and tight. The title track, 72 Seasons was awesome.
Yes, this was the show I saw and they were really vital and energetic overall. James sounded great.
Due to your post I saw Metallica uploaded two pro-shot clips, cool. Do they do this for every show?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeSbtQWrPs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeSbtQWrPs) 72 Seasons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqVVsy9cPC0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqVVsy9cPC0) You Must Burn
I do not really enjoy their new album (listened to it after the concert), but I really enjoyed these tracks live.
Yeah, for the past tours they've been releasing one song professionally done for each show for free on youtube. I think you can buy the entire show on their website. So I would expect more of these throughout the summer. The Amsterdam ones look/sound awesome.
Since the Hardwired tour they've been known to upload even 2-5 songs per show. And yeah every show plus a bunch of old gigs are available on Livemetallica.com. The sound quality of the shows from 2017 on are incredible.
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My music purchases have really decreased over the last few years. Nobody needs 75 new albums every year. Well, maybe they do but I'm out of room. So I've only bought a few this year and so far 72 Seasons is atop my list for album of the year.
Listening almost every day and truly loving it.
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My music purchases have really decreased over the last few years. Nobody needs 75 new albums every year. Well, maybe they do but I'm out of room.
The $14.99 I spend per month for Spotify (which includes my son's account) is the equivalent of buying one CD every month. It's more than worth it.
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My music purchases have really decreased over the last few years. Nobody needs 75 new albums every year. Well, maybe they do but I'm out of room.
The $14.99 I spend per month for Spotify (which includes my son's account) is the equivalent of buying one CD every month. It's more than worth it.
Yep. I have Amazon Prime but still the same. Saves me $$$
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Can I just say, I bought this before a recent trip to Dallas and just got to listening to it. While I understand the criticisms here, and understand why people raised them, I agree with very few of them. This is an outstanding record. I liked at least something in EVERY SINGLE song, and I can't recall the last time that happened. The guitar tones are sweet, James has struck the perfect balance between the early years and the recent years in terms of his singing, there are a few Kirk solos where I was like "huh, not bad!", and I've got nothing to complain about regarding Lars' playing. This is a super album and I can definitely see myself revisiting it a lot (also something that doesn't, unfortunately, happen all that often).
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My music purchases have really decreased over the last few years. Nobody needs 75 new albums every year. Well, maybe they do but I'm out of room.
The $14.99 I spend per month for Spotify (which includes my son's account) is the equivalent of buying one CD every month. It's more than worth it.
Yep. I have Amazon Prime but still the same. Saves me $$$
I'm still not on the streaming band wagon (for the most part). But I do limit my purchases. I may listen to 20-30 new albums in a year, but I'm only buying maybe half of that, the rest I'll just stream to listen to. I still haven't bought the new Metallica for example, but I've streamed it a bunch of times. It just hasn't felt like something I want to buy when I only find a couple of the songs really to be awesome. I've given Metallica my money for concert tickets this year (and last). But I do often think, if I purchased spotify that's not that different than buying an album a month like you say.
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My music purchases have really decreased over the last few years. Nobody needs 75 new albums every year. Well, maybe they do but I'm out of room.
The $14.99 I spend per month for Spotify (which includes my son's account) is the equivalent of buying one CD every month. It's more than worth it.
Yep. I have Amazon Prime but still the same. Saves me $$$
I'm still not on the streaming band wagon (for the most part).
Am I outteching the techie? :lol
That's sad, Cram. :lol
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My music purchases have really decreased over the last few years. Nobody needs 75 new albums every year. Well, maybe they do but I'm out of room.
The $14.99 I spend per month for Spotify (which includes my son's account) is the equivalent of buying one CD every month. It's more than worth it.
Yep. I have Amazon Prime but still the same. Saves me $$$
I'm still not on the streaming band wagon (for the most part).
Am I outteching the techie? :lol
That's sad, Cram. :lol
Yes, in this case you are more tech than I am. I'm still buying MP3s for the albums/bands I want to support the most, the rest I just stream on youtube. I just don't want to rely on a paid app for my music, yet. Having my entire music library on my phone via MP3 and not requiring an app/service/wifi/monthly payments is pretty clutch for me.
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No I hear you. It's a gut wrenching transition, honestly.
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I recently finished 72, I love Chasing Light. Good album, more energy than HW.
Here's my "best of" CD from the past few albums:
THAT WAS JUST YOUR LIFE
THAT WAS JUST YOUR LIFE
LUX AETERNA
HARDWIRED
MY APOCALYPSE
SPIT OUT THE BONE
SLEEPWALK MY LIFE AWAY
ALL NIGHTMARE LONG
MOTH INTO FLAME
CHASING LIGHT
THE JUDAS KISS
72 SEASONS
HELL AND BACK
Running time 77:54
Edit: Swapped Lux for Sleepwalk
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No Halo on Fire? heresy!
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No Halo on Fire? heresy!
I haven't done the exercise but my copy will definitely have Halo On Fire.
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Can I just say, I bought this before a recent trip to Dallas and just got to listening to it. While I understand the criticisms here, and understand why people raised them, I agree with very few of them. This is an outstanding record. I liked at least something in EVERY SINGLE song, and I can't recall the last time that happened. The guitar tones are sweet, James has struck the perfect balance between the early years and the recent years in terms of his singing, there are a few Kirk solos where I was like "huh, not bad!", and I've got nothing to complain about regarding Lars' playing. This is a super album and I can definitely see myself revisiting it a lot (also something that doesn't, unfortunately, happen all that often).
Great to hear :metal. I agree.
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No Halo on Fire? heresy!
Good but kinda slow.
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Can I just say, I bought this before a recent trip to Dallas and just got to listening to it. While I understand the criticisms here, and understand why people raised them, I agree with very few of them. This is an outstanding record. I liked at least something in EVERY SINGLE song, and I can't recall the last time that happened. The guitar tones are sweet, James has struck the perfect balance between the early years and the recent years in terms of his singing, there are a few Kirk solos where I was like "huh, not bad!", and I've got nothing to complain about regarding Lars' playing. This is a super album and I can definitely see myself revisiting it a lot (also something that doesn't, unfortunately, happen all that often).
THIS ^
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I love this forum! Everyone is always so positive! I can think of quite a few recent albums/movies/shows I like everyone on the Internet keeps shitting on but the people on this forum! :tup
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You Must Burn is this past weeks turnaround, cracking song which has moved from the bottom couple rungs to way up there \m/
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLheiDmUbNA
If Darkness Had a Son / Live in Paris - this song is really cool live!
One thing I've noticed from these official videos is the shots from behind James' perspective. You can see that he has a teleprompter at his microphones. Is this something new for him? I don't recall seeing that before.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLheiDmUbNA
If Darkness Had a Son / Live in Paris - this song is really cool live!
One thing I've noticed from these official videos is the shots from behind James' perspective. You can see that he has a teleprompter at his microphones. Is this something new for him? I don't recall seeing that before.
I feel like they've been doing teleprompters for years now. A ton of bands do these days.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLheiDmUbNA
If Darkness Had a Son / Live in Paris - this song is really cool live!
One thing I've noticed from these official videos is the shots from behind James' perspective. You can see that he has a teleprompter at his microphones. Is this something new for him? I don't recall seeing that before.
I feel like they've been doing teleprompters for years now. A ton of bands do these days.
No judgement from me, I was just curious because I hadn't seen a video that showed that perspective before.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLheiDmUbNA
If Darkness Had a Son / Live in Paris - this song is really cool live!
One thing I've noticed from these official videos is the shots from behind James' perspective. You can see that he has a teleprompter at his microphones. Is this something new for him? I don't recall seeing that before.
I feel like they've been doing teleprompters for years now. A ton of bands do these days.
Not Iron Maiden!!!!! :) :) : ) :) :)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLheiDmUbNA
If Darkness Had a Son / Live in Paris - this song is really cool live!
One thing I've noticed from these official videos is the shots from behind James' perspective. You can see that he has a teleprompter at his microphones. Is this something new for him? I don't recall seeing that before.
I feel like they've been doing teleprompters for years now. A ton of bands do these days.
No judgement from me, I was just curious because I hadn't seen a video that showed that perspective before.
Maybe no judgment from you, but I think it's fairly lame, but it is common especially for older artists. It's also a bit more understandable if he's using it on songs they don't usually perform.
I noticed the singer of Breaking Benjamin using his phone and it certainly looked like he was using it for the lyrics as he was singing, but I checked and the song was not a common song they had performed and he didn't use it for any other song so it's more understandable IMO even though I still don't like it.
When I noticed the teleprompter when seeing Aerosmith and during Walk This Way, I was a bit let down by that. Seriously, how many times has he sung that song???
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I've softened my stance on teleprompters over the years. It bothers me when it's very noticeable (see Ripper Owens in Iced Earth), but I don't mind if singers have it available to them, lest they jumble up the words. I just hadn't seen Metallica use them before and James is usually really good without them.
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I get also that he may not even be using it. I would find it odd to remember the guitar parts but not the lyrics, but maybe it's more for just a re-assurance. I understand it, but as a fan, I don't like seeing it.
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Everyone is different, but as someone who has played and sang before, I would be much more likely to need lyrics than the music. In fact, I did that sometimes, just putting a lyric sheet on my music stand, because my hands already knew how to play the song.
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There are some people here who haven't yet realised what it's like to age.
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There are some people here who haven't yet realised what it's like to age.
No shit. Some mornings I wish I had a teleprompter to remember my wife's name. I nearly had to say, "Hey, you." the other morning to get her attention!
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When I noticed the teleprompter when seeing Aerosmith and during Walk This Way, I was a bit let down by that. Seriously, how many times has he sung that song???
I'm with you on that.
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Anyone ever been to a show where the singer greeted the wrong town?
Bruce Dickinson did it when Iron Maiden played in Providence in 1991. He called us...Rochester! :lol
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Anyone ever been to a show where the singer greeted the wrong town?
Bruce Dickinson did it when Iron Maiden played in Providence in 1991. He called us...Rochester! :lol
I saw Lacuna Coil at Ozzfest who just kept referring to the crowd as ozzfest. Pretty sure she didn’t know where she was.
Not the same but I once saw the Israeli Prime Minister speak at my university in Tel Aviv who referred to us as a completely different university in Jerusalem.
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Pretty sure I've heard that James' teleprompter isn't the full lyrics. More like a cheat sheet. It's just the first word or two of the line. Honestly with a band like Metallica it makes sense since they aren't touring with a set in stone setlist and are constantly changing songs in and out.
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Pretty sure I've heard that James' teleprompter isn't the full lyrics. More like a cheat sheet. It's just the first word or two of the line. Honestly with a band like Metallica it makes sense since they aren't touring with a set in stone setlist and are constantly changing songs in and out.
I totally get why James of all singers might need this. For the last few albums, verses in general just seem like random related words to fill syllables. I can’t keep them straight at all either.
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Anyone ever been to a show where the singer greeted the wrong town?
Bruce Dickinson did it when Iron Maiden played in Providence in 1991. He called us...Rochester! :lol
I can't think of a specific example, but with all of the southern California venues, most of which aren't actually in Los Angeles, I feel like someone has said "Los Angeles" at the Long Beach Arena or one of the Orange County venues. And, of course, the Forum isn't actually in Los Angeles, but I don't count that.
Pretty sure I've heard that James' teleprompter isn't the full lyrics. More like a cheat sheet. It's just the first word or two of the line. Honestly with a band like Metallica it makes sense since they aren't touring with a set in stone setlist and are constantly changing songs in and out.
The original singer for YYNOT used to write the first few words of each verse on the set list.
And, of course, we have these guys, where the singer has his phone in his hand the whole time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAHWAVUxkn0
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Anyone ever been to a show where the singer greeted the wrong town?
Bruce Dickinson did it when Iron Maiden played in Providence in 1991. He called us...Rochester! :lol
I saw Lacuna Coil at Ozzfest who just kept referring to the crowd as ozzfest. Pretty sure she didn’t know where she was.
At the end of the BTFW show, James Labrie thanked the Boston College Music College.. :lol
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Anyone ever been to a show where the singer greeted the wrong town?
I did - Kiss on the Farewell Tour in 2000. They were in Champaign, IL, which is 2 and a half hours south of Chicago. All night long, Paul's saying "Hey, Champaign, blah blah blah." Event shirts say "Kiss Rocked Champaign"
Peter Criss sits down to sing Beth for the encore and says "Hello Chicago!" It's not like we're in a Chicago suburb, where that's an acceptable thing to say....we're 150 miles south.
Paul comes back on stage and just says "Sorry about that, we're going to buy Peter a map tomorrow." :lol
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Anyone ever been to a show where the singer greeted the wrong town?
Bruce Dickinson did it when Iron Maiden played in Providence in 1991. He called us...Rochester! :lol
I can't think of a specific example, but with all of the southern California venues, most of which aren't actually in Los Angeles, I feel like someone has said "Los Angeles" at the Long Beach Arena or one of the Orange County venues. And, of course, the Forum isn't actually in Los Angeles, but I don't count that.
I can relate, we don't have many music venues in the city of Milan proper, so there's a venue 25 minutes outside Milan where many bands play. Lot of bands can't bother with the distinction and generically say they're in Milan (both to the crowd and even on their social media pages) even though they're playing in a small town of the province that just happens to have a music venue.
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Anyone ever been to a show where the singer greeted the wrong town?
I did - Kiss on the Farewell Tour in 2000. They were in Champaign, IL, which is 2 and a half hours south of Chicago. All night long, Paul's saying "Hey, Champaign, blah blah blah." Event shirts say "Kiss Rocked Champaign"
Peter Criss sits down to sing Beth for the encore and says "Hello Chicago!" It's not like we're in a Chicago suburb, where that's an acceptable thing to say....we're 150 miles south.
Paul comes back on stage and just says "Sorry about that, we're going to buy Peter a map tomorrow." :lol
I'm going to remember that story. I'm a huge Kiss fan but I am totally soured on Peter Criss. I feel like he phoned in the reunion and that's just a glimpse into that fact. But also goes to show that Paul put in the effort.
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Anyone ever been to a show where the singer greeted the wrong town?
Bruce Dickinson did it when Iron Maiden played in Providence in 1991. He called us...Rochester! :lol
I can't think of a specific example, but with all of the southern California venues, most of which aren't actually in Los Angeles, I feel like someone has said "Los Angeles" at the Long Beach Arena or one of the Orange County venues. And, of course, the Forum isn't actually in Los Angeles, but I don't count that.
I too don't have an example, but we get a lot of "hello HARTFORD!" when it could be Hartford, but it could also be Wallingford, or New Haven, or Bridgeport. Some opt for the blanket "Connecticut!" but that doesn't sound all that cool shouted from the stage.
Pretty sure I've heard that James' teleprompter isn't the full lyrics. More like a cheat sheet. It's just the first word or two of the line. Honestly with a band like Metallica it makes sense since they aren't touring with a set in stone setlist and are constantly changing songs in and out.
The original singer for YYNOT used to write the first few words of each verse on the set list.
And, of course, we have these guys, where the singer has his phone in his hand the whole time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAHWAVUxkn0
That's me; I can remember the words, I can't always remember the order. I can absolutely tell you the words to Yesterday or Smoke on the Water (the latter of which I've sung on stage a couple times) and I always blank on the first word of each verse. Once I have that, good to go! :)
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It's always funny to see singers turn themselves into knots when they play in Mansfield Ma. It's not Boston, Worcester, or Providence.
Bruce now just refers to it as Scream For Me Massachusetts!!!
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Anyone ever been to a show where the singer greeted the wrong town?
Bruce Dickinson did it when Iron Maiden played in Providence in 1991. He called us...Rochester! :lol
Not the wrong town, but just a couple months ago Steel Panther said the wrong name of the venue :lol and now they are on America's Got Talent
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Anyone ever been to a show where the singer greeted the wrong town?
I did - Kiss on the Farewell Tour in 2000. They were in Champaign, IL, which is 2 and a half hours south of Chicago. All night long, Paul's saying "Hey, Champaign, blah blah blah." Event shirts say "Kiss Rocked Champaign"
Peter Criss sits down to sing Beth for the encore and says "Hello Chicago!" It's not like we're in a Chicago suburb, where that's an acceptable thing to say....we're 150 miles south.
Paul comes back on stage and just says "Sorry about that, we're going to buy Peter a map tomorrow." :lol
I'm going to remember that story. I'm a huge Kiss fan but I am totally soured on Peter Criss. I feel like he phoned in the reunion and that's just a glimpse into that fact. But also goes to show that Paul put in the effort.
Off topic but I went down the rabbit hole of watching live clips from the reunion and I am confident I could play the drums better than Peter did on that tour :lol
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Anyone ever been to a show where the singer greeted the wrong town?
Bruce Dickinson did it when Iron Maiden played in Providence in 1991. He called us...Rochester! :lol
Not the wrong town, but just a couple months ago Steel Panther said the wrong name of the venue :lol and now they are on America's Got Talent
And they are probably already out of songs that are allowed on national tv lolol.
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Anyone ever been to a show where the singer greeted the wrong town?
I did - Kiss on the Farewell Tour in 2000. They were in Champaign, IL, which is 2 and a half hours south of Chicago. All night long, Paul's saying "Hey, Champaign, blah blah blah." Event shirts say "Kiss Rocked Champaign"
Peter Criss sits down to sing Beth for the encore and says "Hello Chicago!" It's not like we're in a Chicago suburb, where that's an acceptable thing to say....we're 150 miles south.
Paul comes back on stage and just says "Sorry about that, we're going to buy Peter a map tomorrow." :lol
I'm going to remember that story. I'm a huge Kiss fan but I am totally soured on Peter Criss. I feel like he phoned in the reunion and that's just a glimpse into that fact. But also goes to show that Paul put in the effort.
Off topic but I went down the rabbit hole of watching live clips from the reunion and I am confident I could play the drums better than Peter did on that tour :lol
I KNOW you can.
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If I had one complaint about modern day Metallica. Really since the Hardwired tour it's all the intros they have now. I totally get why they are there. It provides the boys with a quick break. But there are so many now. Really when it comes down to it I'm mostly just mad that they went Ecstasy to Creep Intro to Creep. There just isn't a better way to start a Metallica gig with Ectasy into the four count into Creeping Death.
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If I had one complaint about modern day Metallica. Really since the Hardwired tour it's all the intros they have now. I totally get why they are there. It provides the boys with a quick break. But there are so many now. Really when it comes down to it I'm mostly just mad that they went Ecstasy to Creep Intro to Creep. There just isn't a better way to start a Metallica gig with Ectasy into the four count into Creeping Death.
Gonna agree with you. It feels a majority of their songs now have pretaped intros. Sometimes they're interesting and cool like Ktulu, but most of the time they just seem like the intro to the song elongated and Metallica comes in on the main riff. It just takes me out of it after a while.
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There just isn't a better way to start a Metallica gig with Ecstasy into the four count into Creeping Death.
Ecstasy into Blackened Tape into Blackened would like a word.
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There just isn't a better way to start a Metallica gig with Ecstasy into the four count into Creeping Death.
Ecstasy into Blackened Tape into Blackened would like a word.
That's fair
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Saw a FB post about today being the 20 year anniversary of St. Anger, an album I once saw referred to as "Headache simulator" and I will never not find that funny. Just such an accurate description for how it feels sitting through the album. :lol
With that said I do have some nostalgia towards it, firstly because I've seen Some Kind of Monster multiple times and I just find that era of the band to be so fascinating. Secondly, I did spend a lot of time with it when I was 15, it has a bit of a nu-metal vibe/aesthetic to it and as an angsty teenager I was listening to a lot of that. The biggest issues with the album for me really is the sound of the album (that snare) and if the last 3 Metallica albums have gotten complaints for having overly long songs, St. Anger really started that and also there's no solos on here so the songs feel twice as long.
Some of these songs have some interesting ideas and I think a re-recording of the album where the band mixed it differently, changed the songs a bit (shortened them) it could have been decent. As it is now, it is their weakest album and it really is a challenge to try and sit through it mostly because every song has that "BONK BONK" going on. It's a meme album but it is interesting in some ways I would say. I wish I could say there was some hidden gem of a song on there that I could champion but even some of the songs I tolerate more than others suffer from bloat and painful sections.
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I’d leave SA alone.
I don’t like it much but it’s a time capsule of where they were. Re-recording it and changing it would alter the one thing that makes it interesting.
Plus they already tend to change up the songs when they play them live.
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The only thing I have to say about SA is that I absolutely HATED the album version of All Within My Hands. Yet, the acoustic version of it from S&M2 sounds GREAT and I like it! Bad arrangement and poor mixing kill that album.
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I will never, ever, EVER listen to St. Anger again. And by "again", I mean beyond the two times I tried to listen to it when it was released.
I saw the title track live and it was quite ok however. Also The Unnamed Feeling is cool. But life is too short to give another chance to St. Anger.
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I've never listened to it. Some day I probably should.
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I listened to all their albums in a row before 72 came out. Every time I listen to St. Anger, I always hope I’ll enjoy it more but I never do. Just a dumpster fire of an album.
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I'd genuinely rather listen to St Anger than The Astonishing :biggrin:
Tell you what I won't listen, though. Lulu. Now that was a proper shocker.
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SA was fantastic IMO. So unique.
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I think both LuLu and St Anger are absolutely terrible records. Probably some the worst I have ever heard from a well known artist, I am not joking. If I had to make a bottom ten records I have heard, LuLu would be the absolute bottom. Both records came out when I was getting into metal. A couple of weeks ago, after more than a decade of enjoying metal, I returned to them as my tastes have changed. Still terrible to my ears/taste. Death Magnetic is fantastic though and perhaps one of the biggest returns to form I can think of.
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The live in studio performance on the DVD is so much better than the proper album. Huge improvement.
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The live in studio performance on the DVD is so much better than the proper album. Huge improvement.
Couldn't agree more. In fact, that is the ONLY way I want to experience those songs (save for the rare live performance).
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St Anger is a joke of a release. They should be grateful that anyone listens to them anymore after they plopped out that giant steamer. :lol
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I've never listened to Lulu, and I can't imagine that I ever will.
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I've never listened to Lulu, and I can't imagine that I ever will.
And for better or worse, it's officially a Lou Reed album, anyway. He's hard to take on the best of days.
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SA was fantastic IMO. So unique.
I agree my bro... I dont love it, Im not sure I even like it that much lol, but it has some odd grunge elements and hardcore mixed in, I like that its a reflection of their turmoil and they felt free enough to make the album, my biggest gripe is that Frantic is too long as an opener and tires me out a bit LOL hmmmmm MELVINTALLICA LOL
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I've never listened to Lulu, and I can't imagine that I ever will.
And for better or worse, it's officially a Lou Reed album, anyway. He's hard to take on the best of days.
Exactly. I don't view it as a Metallica album. It's a Lou Reed album with Metallica backing him up.
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I've never listened to Lulu, and I can't imagine that I ever will.
And for better or worse, it's officially a Lou Reed album, anyway. He's hard to take on the best of days.
That is the exact reason I've never listened to it.
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I will say that while I'm not a fan of Lulu, I don't think it's as bad as St. Anger. It's different and the fact they made it with Lou Reed makes it a bit of an oddity and an interesting passion project at the very least. Feels like it's rare to see bands at that level of popularity just making a passion project album with a musician they like. But yeah I listened to it when it came out and haven't felt a strong urge to return.
The best thing about St. Anger is the Some Kind of Monster documentary in my opinion. Seeing the band at their lowest point is quite interesting and I thought it was fun to see the bass player auditions as well, Rob's first hangouts with the band. Also interesting to hear just how all over the place those recording sessions were. There's a moment when Lars brings in his dad to listen and the music sounds like a weird 90s grunge thing and his dad does not approve at all. In the end you get the angriest (no pun intended) album ever made.
If you remixed St. Anger and trimmed it down from a 75 minute album to a 40-45 minute album I think it would have been perfectly fine for what they were going for. It's just none of these songs needs to be 7-8 minutes, especially without solos. Most of the songs have some redeeming qualities, like the "My lifestyle determines my deathstyle" line in Frantic, or the main riff in Some Kind of Monster or something else like that. But I can't say there's a single song that just works all the way through.
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If you remixed St. Anger and trimmed it down from a 75 minute album to a 40-45 minute album I think it would have been perfectly fine for what they were going for. It's just none of these songs needs to be 7-8 minutes, especially without solos. Most of the songs have some redeeming qualities, like the "My lifestyle determines my deathstyle" line in Frantic, or the main riff in Some Kind of Monster or something else like that. But I can't say there's a single song that just works all the way through.
I think you could say that about 72 seasons too (regarding trimming). But I generally agree, those songs would be better being shorter. I actually liked St. Anger on release. It fit the time period of music, but it had 0 staying power. The songs got old and stale VERY quick and had very little reason to go back to them. I haven't listened to St. Anger in full probably since then, about 3 months after release and have no desire to check it out again.
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I will say that while I'm not a fan of Lulu, I don't think it's as bad as St. Anger. It's different and the fact they made it with Lou Reed makes it a bit of an oddity and an interesting passion project at the very least. Feels like it's rare to see bands at that level of popularity just making a passion project album with a musician they like. But yeah I listened to it when it came out and haven't felt a strong urge to return.
The best thing about St. Anger is the Some Kind of Monster documentary in my opinion. Seeing the band at their lowest point is quite interesting and I thought it was fun to see the bass player auditions as well, Rob's first hangouts with the band. Also interesting to hear just how all over the place those recording sessions were. There's a moment when Lars brings in his dad to listen and the music sounds like a weird 90s grunge thing and his dad does not approve at all. In the end you get the angriest (no pun intended) album ever made.
If you remixed St. Anger and trimmed it down from a 75 minute album to a 40-45 minute album I think it would have been perfectly fine for what they were going for. It's just none of these songs needs to be 7-8 minutes, especially without solos. Most of the songs have some redeeming qualities, like the "My lifestyle determines my deathstyle" line in Frantic, or the main riff in Some Kind of Monster or something else like that. But I can't say there's a single song that just works all the way through.
This; I've watched that movie more than any actual rock documentary and I will probably watch it again at some point. I just find it to be very honest and very emotional.
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I ripped SA to digital and kept about half of it.
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I think Dirty Window, Frantic, and Sweet Amber are all solid. Shoot Me Again is good. St Anger, Some Kind of Monster, and Unnamed Feeling all have parts I like, but could use some trimming. The rest not so much...
Invisible Kid is right there with Poor Twisted Me for least favorite Metallica song.
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Metallica: Hey Rob, welcome to the band!
Rob: OMG I'm so excited! I can't believe I'm officially a member of Metallica! The band who made Master of Puppets, and the Black Album and stuff!
Metallica: YEAH! Hey....you wanna listen to our new record? The one you had nothing to do with but people will forever associate with you joining the band?
Rob: HELL YEA!
.....one hour later....
Rob:........uhhhhhh
Metallica: Great, so go learn that album. First thing people will see you doing with Metallica is playing it.
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Metallica: Hey Rob, welcome to the band!
Rob: OMG I'm so excited! I can't believe I'm officially a member of Metallica! The band who made Master of Puppets, and the Black Album and stuff!
Metallica: YEAH! Hey....you wanna listen to our new record? The one you had nothing to do with but people will forever associate with you joining the band?
Rob: HELL YEA!
.....one hour later....
Rob:........uhhhhhh
Metallica: Great, so go learn that album. First thing people will see you doing with Metallica is playing it.
HAHAHA. So true. Except I disagree.
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Metallica: Hey Rob, welcome to the band!
Rob: OMG I'm so excited! I can't believe I'm officially a member of Metallica! The band who made Master of Puppets, and the Black Album and stuff!
Metallica: YEAH! Hey....you wanna listen to our new record? The one you had nothing to do with but people will forever associate with you joining the band?
Rob: HELL YEA!
.....one hour later....
Rob:........uhhhhhh
Metallica: Great, so go learn that album. First thing people will see you doing with Metallica is playing it.
:rollin
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Metallica: Hey Rob, welcome to the band!
Rob: OMG I'm so excited! I can't believe I'm officially a member of Metallica! The band who made Master of Puppets, and the Black Album and stuff!
Metallica: YEAH! Hey....you wanna listen to our new record? The one you had nothing to do with but people will forever associate with you joining the band?
Rob: HELL YEA!
.....one hour later....
Rob:........uhhhhhh
Metallica: Great, so go learn that album. First thing people will see you doing with Metallica is playing it.
:lol but I'm sure once he got his first pay check it washed all that negativity away, but seriously, you've got to do the next part where Rob wouldn't be making any other new music with Metallica for awhile too
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Always thought St Anger the song was badass.
And now it's had time to grow I also think 72 Seasons is rather bloody good. A few songs too long but overall some great stuff and probably on par with my appreciation of Hardwired \m/
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There just isn't a better way to start a Metallica gig with Ecstasy into the four count into Creeping Death.
Ecstasy into Blackened Tape into Blackened would like a word.
That's fair
Yep- followed by Creeping Death.
Creeping Death is the greatest #2 song in a setlist ever. Hit ‘em with something heavy to start and just when they think it’s safe to take a breath knock ‘em out out with Creepin.
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I will say that while I'm not a fan of Lulu, I don't think it's as bad as St. Anger…..
When LuLu came out I thought it was laughably bad. I had this friend I would hang out and chat new music with. We would show each other different albums or bands we found and relax(and usually fill a bong). So I put on LuLu expecting to get a good laugh and a “wtf is this” but instead I got a “yo this is pretty cool.”
Turns out said friend was a massive Lou Reed fan and any word the Reedster spoke was music to his ears - even if those words were spoken nonsensically and out of time over Metallica riffs :facepalm:
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I've seen several videos of James congregating with front row fans for a pre-show cigar. If they bring one, he lights it for them. Very cool stuff.
Also, if you care, his new signature cigar, the Blackened M81, is a pretty good smoke.
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I've seen several videos of James congregating with front row fans for a pre-show cigar. If they bring one, he lights it for them. Very cool stuff.
Also, if you care, his new signature cigar, the Blackened M81, is a pretty good smoke.
I saw somewhere a really great black and white pic of James sitting behind the amps recently just in solitude thinking, head kinda pointed down with the cigar smoke around him.. it was a really great pic, I need to find it id like to get a print of it
I really am enjoyin 72 seasons im worried im gonna burn out on it as I play it daily if feels like
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Also, if you care, his new signature cigar, the Blackened M81, is a pretty good smoke.
I gotta give this a shot, I'm not much of a cigar smoker but I do enjoy one from time to time.
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Also, if you care, his new signature cigar, the Blackened M81, is a pretty good smoke.
I gotta give this a shot, I'm not much of a cigar smoker but I do enjoy one from time to time.
Just a heads up if you grab one. It's a bit robust. Eat something before you smoke it.
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Will definitely be trying one of those at some point!
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Since it's Metallica weekend (saw them live on Friday and again tonight) I've spent a lot of the week just listening through the discography again. And I thought just for fun I'd throw in my album rankings from worst to best with a little bit of info about my motivations and such.
11. St. Anger
I know it has some defenders but for me it's pretty much dead last with no real challenger (I'm not gonna count Lulu). There are some good riffs and ideas but most of the songs are way too long, way too repetitive and the production on this album just makes it borderline unlistenable. They have done some of the songs live and 'redeemed' them so it's not all bad, and I can get a little bit of guilty pleasure enjoyment if I listen to this for nostalgia. (Takes me back to listening to this album, and a bunch of nu-metal albums around 2005 or so playing Need For Speed). Biggest negative is that I don't think there's a single song on here that I love. Even the better ones drag on too long or have an unlistenable drum snare in there. It's not the worst thing ever but it's not great.
10. Death Magnetic
I've gone back and forth on this one. When it came out people hailed it as a return to form, "best since AJFA" and so on. After that there was some backlash about the sound of the album, and I must admit I always felt this sounded a bit passionless. Like a band returning to a safe sound to win the fans back, but to me it didn't feel like their hearts were in it. Upon revisit I do think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It's a decent album with a couple of good songs, for me The Day That Never Comes and That Was Just Your Life stands out. The second half is where the album runs out of steam for me though, Unforgiven III feels like a pretty pointless sequel to an already pointless sequel to a classic. First half of the album has enough highlights to make this enjoyable.
9. 72 Seasons
I've been debating about this album and whether it would be 9 or 8 but I think in the end this feels like a good spot. There are some similar complaints with this that I have with Death Magnetic, at times a bit flat sounding, at times the songs are a bit overly long, but there are some nice highlights that really make me enjoy this a bit more than Death Magnetic. Inamorata, 72 Seasons, If Darkness Had a Son, Lux Aeterna and You Must Burn! are all pretty great imo. There's a few songs that are a bit unremarkable like Sleepwalk My Life Away but overall I think it's a pretty solid album from a band who has been active for 40 years.
8. Reload
90's Metallica actually holds a special place in my heart and I do not dislike that era as much as many people, with S&M playing a key part in me getting into the band. Reload never quite scratched my itch as much as its predecessor and I think one big reason for that is that I never loved the singles here. Fuel is okay (certainly better live than on album) and The Memory Remains is also... okay, but neither of the two blew me away. I also never quite dug Unforgiven II, so this album actually starts off a bit lackluster for me. I will say that Devil's Dance is a great tune with a nice groove. I do feel overall that Load has the stronger batch of songs and Reload has a couple of interesting experiments that don't quite land, but it does have a couple of huge songs for me like Low Man's Lyric (would probably make my top20 Metallica songs) and Fixxxer owns bones. But yeah it's 75 minutes and a lot of it is just kinda OK.
7. Hardwired to Self-Destruct
I was late to the party on this one and before my most recent revisit of these albums, I had this a spot or two lower. I didn't hear this album until earlier this year for the first time and went into it a bit skeptical because the praise was pretty high. But it is a pretty great album and especially taking into account it's a later era Metallica album, when most of their other output was mixed, this is really an accomplishment. The one thing holding it down is that I haven't really identified my favorite/standout tracks yet, but I do consider this to be a very solid listening experience. It also sounds pretty good by modern Metallica production standards and it has a nice energy to it.
6. Kill 'Em All
The debut is probably higher for some people but I consider it more of 'signs of better things to come'. James vocals aren't up there yet, the production isn't as great as the next few albums and it's not without its flaws. Yet it is probably the best debut album by one of the big four thrash metal bands. There are some great songs on here, I still love Seek & Destroy even if it's been overplayed and other songs like Whiplash or Hit the Lights are great. Overall a great album.
5. Metallica (The Black Album)
The one that fans either love or hate it seems like. For me this album falls in a similar place as The Number of the Beast by Iron Maiden, where it's slightly diminished by having a few hit songs that have been overplayed to the point where I feel fatigued. Enter Sandman and Nothing Else Matters are songs I could take a break from and be okay with. But I do think Sad But True is one of their greats, Unforgiven is very good and Wherever I May Roam is low key maybe even my favorite song on here. I do think Black Album has a bit of filler though, there's definitely a couple of songs on here that aren't as good as the rest. But overall it's a classic for a reason, for me it just sounds great as an album. Say what you want about Bob Rock but his 90's Metallica albums sound great IMO.
4. Load
The controversial one, even more because I almost want to push it into my top3. I love alternative metal/rock from the 90s though so I don't mind them doing something different. The first half of this album is about as good as any Metallica album for me. Ain't My Bitch is a solid opener, 2X4 is great, The House that Jack Built is heavily underrated, Until it Sleeps rules, King Nothing is one of my favorite Metallica singles, Hero of the Day is a good ballad and Bleeding Me is a top10 Metallica song for me. The second half does lose some steam and you could cut maybe 2 songs or so and make it better. But there's still great songs there. Mama Said, Thorn Within and The Outlaw Torn especially are some great tunes.
3. Ride the Lightning
The top3 is hard to separate for me and I know this one will be some people's favorite. I'm really splitting hairs though and the only 'weakness' I found is that I'm not that huge on Escape, and even Trapped Under Ice is a song I can take or leave. I don't dislike it by any means but it's not Creeping Death/For Whom the Bell Tolls/Fade to Black levels or anything. This album is a classic though and I can't really say much negative about it at all because I love it.
2. And Justice For All
Yes, having audible bass would most definitely have improved this album. However, I do find myself digging the vibe of this album and it feels proggier in nature than their other albums. Some of their best songs like Blackened, Harvester of Sorrow, One, the title track, but also some killer fast songs like The Shortest Straw and Dyers Eve. The Frayed Ends of Sanity also slaps hard. I totally get people putting this third or fourth because the mix bothers them that much, but for me the songs are so good.
1. Master of Puppets
Perfect album if you ask me. Battery-Master of Puppets-The Thing That Should Not Be-Sanitarium, what a crazy first half. And when you think "Oh surely the album will dip now" you get Disposable Heroes kicking you in the face followed by the underrated Leper Messiah and Orion - imo their best instrumental. When you think the album will end with a ballad or something you get Damage Inc that just ends it all on a high. I know most debates come down to Ride vs Puppets for the best album and in my opinion Puppets is just slightly better. Battery for me is a more iconic and stronger opener than Fight Fire With Fire, Master of Puppets is the better title track, and while Bells might be a hair better than The Thing, and Fade to Black might be a hair better (or equal) to Sanitarium, I definitely think Disposable Heroes and Leper Messiah spanks Trapped Under Ice and Escape. Orion for me beats Kthulu, I can't say Damage Inc beats Creeping Death but overall MoP still wins most of those matches for me.
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Also, if you care, his new signature cigar, the Blackened M81, is a pretty good smoke.
I gotta give this a shot, I'm not much of a cigar smoker but I do enjoy one from time to time.
Just a heads up if you grab one. It's a bit robust. Eat something before you smoke it.
Thanks for the heads up, I definitely will!
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4. Load
The controversial one, even more because I almost want to push it into my top3. I love alternative metal/rock from the 90s though so I don't mind them doing something different. The first half of this album is about as good as any Metallica album for me. Ain't My Bitch is a solid opener, 2X4 is great, The House that Jack Built is heavily underrated, Until it Sleeps rules, King Nothing is one of my favorite Metallica singles, Hero of the Day is a good ballad and Bleeding Me is a top10 Metallica song for me. The second half does lose some steam and you could cut maybe 2 songs or so and make it better. But there's still great songs there. Mama Said, Thorn Within and The Outlaw Torn especially are some great tunes.
I'm with you on Load. It's my favorite Metallica record. The one I'll listen to the most. But when ranking albums RTL-MOP-AJFA are just there in the way.
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Eh, for Load you had to be there. Sure now it's easy to listen to it with an open mind, but back then it was kinda a shock for the metal community. I was young and musically uneducated, I just started the year before to listen to heavy metal, and Load was the first new album by Metallica and it left everyone a bit WTF. Also, the change of style, the Napster thing.... sure, now we're in the Spotify era, now we learnt to not care for the looks, but the feeling of "what the hell have they done" was real, they were also all over MTV and coming from the Black Album it was a bit of a shock. But I'm sure the Black album itself was a shock for people coming from Justice.
I agree however on the mere musical judgement of Load - first half is very strong, just ditch 2-3 of the lesser songs to make it tighter.
Glad to see Hardwired as the best of the recent albums, it's a really solid one.
Even more glad to see St. Anger rightfully at the very last place ;D
And while Master is obviously a timeless masterpiece and I will never argue with someone declaring Metallica's best album, or their favorite, MY personal favorite is Ride the Lightning. No complaints about Master, I just like Ride the Lightning more. An absolutely killer and historical run of four initial songs, Trapped Under Ice is cool, Call of Ktulu is an awesome epic instrumental, and Creeping Death is my favorite ever Metallica song. Escape is not that bad enough to bring the album down. Ride the Lightning is my favorite Metallica album.
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Eh, for Load you had to be there. Sure now it's easy to listen to it with an open mind, but back then it was kinda a shock for the metal community. I was young and musically uneducated, I just started the year before to listen to heavy metal, and Load was the first new album by Metallica and it left everyone a bit WTF. Also, the change of style, the Napster thing.... sure, now we're in the Spotify era, now we learnt to not care for the looks, but the feeling of "what the hell have they done" was real, they were also all over MTV and coming from the Black Album it was a bit of a shock. But I'm sure the Black album itself was a shock for people coming from Justice.
I agree however on the mere musical judgement of Load - first half is very strong, just ditch 2-3 of the lesser songs to make it tighter.
Glad to see Hardwired as the best of the recent albums, it's a really solid one.
Even more glad to see St. Anger rightfully at the very last place ;D
And while Master is obviously a timeless masterpiece and I will never argue with someone declaring Metallica's best album, or their favorite, MY personal favorite is Ride the Lightning. No complaints about Master, I just like Ride the Lightning more. An absolutely killer and historical run of four initial songs, Trapped Under Ice is cool, Call of Ktulu is an awesome epic instrumental, and Creeping Death is my favorite ever Metallica song. Escape is not that bad enough to bring the album down. Ride the Lightning is my favorite Metallica album.
I came on board with Metallica with S&M so naturally Load/Reload wasn't a shock to the system.
As for St. Anger I feel if they spent a few months right now and cleaned it up. Rearranged some things here and there. Add solos where they can fit. Turn the snare on. It'd be a killer album. Frantic/St. Anger/Dirty Window have sounded absolutely killer these last few years that they've played them. Of course All Within My Hands has been completely redone and it's great. There is a good album there, good ideas, good riffs, they just weren't able to get there in 2003.
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Enjoyed reading that write up thanks Zantera cheers
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Random thought: the two setlists approach, with two shows with no repeat songs, is most likely a combination of artistic, logistic and also monetary reasons.
Playing two shows of course earns you more than a single show; having two setlists to fill gives you more freedom with all the songs from the back catalog; and speaking of the back catalog, Metallica are at that point where they "could" play 3 hour shows with 25 songs or more.
Since their music is much more energetic and they're probably too old by now to play 3 hours and a half like Bruce Springsteen does, the two shows approach is the best of both worlds - fan get to see Metallica playing 32 songs.... but they do so over two nights, with a rest for the band in between. All in all is a smart move that works on all fronts - the money, the creativity and the stamina.
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It has many benefits. They can cut down on the world touring. Two shows in one place allows people to come to them. They’ve already in the past few years gone from 18 song sets to 16. Metallica of course have a very deep pool of songs they use on a tour. This helps with trying to fit songs from new record with trying to fit in the classics plus the deep cuts Lars will throw in. This point in their career it’s just a plain brilliant idea.
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Honestly they probably could have made it 3 unique nights worth of songs. There was still plenty of great stuff not touched (they only played 1/3 of Justice, couple of songs left from Ride and MoP, did not play Unforgiven for example) and with 3 nights you also could have thrown in a few more surprises.
Don't get me wrong, I was really happy with the 2 nights but aside from a huge No Leaf Clover surprise, a lot of it felt sort of 'expected'. Even when they do 2 nights worth of unique songs I still didn't get some songs I love like Bleeding Me, Outlaw Torn or King Nothing. Not that I would expect them to play Fixxxer or Low Man's Lyric but hey a man can dream.
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Honestly they probably could have made it 3 unique nights worth of songs. There was still plenty of great stuff not touched (they only played 1/3 of Justice, couple of songs left from Ride and MoP, did not play Unforgiven for example) and with 3 nights you also could have thrown in a few more surprises.
Don't get me wrong, I was really happy with the 2 nights but aside from a huge No Leaf Clover surprise, a lot of it felt sort of 'expected'. Even when they do 2 nights worth of unique songs I still didn't get some songs I love like Bleeding Me, Outlaw Torn or King Nothing. Not that I would expect them to play Fixxxer or Low Man's Lyric but hey a man can dream.
Yeah on this Europe run they seemed to have an oddly specific set with 2-3 rotated spots. Hopefully this next leg they start doing some other 72 songs. All my favorites haven’t been played yet.
Btw if they play Bleed or Outlaw in St Louis you’ll never hear from me again. I’ll have dropped dead on the spot.
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They are a rare band that is big enough to be able to dictate the terms of their touring. It's a cool idea and concept. What you didn't even mention was two different opening bands each night as well, so if you go to both nights you get two completely different shows and while I'm not much of a 5 Finger Death Punch fan, they overall did a great job picking relevant bands. The Metlife Stadium show in NJ that I'm attending sold real well too so the stadium will be full both nights. I'm really excited for the first night having Mammoth WVH and Pantera opening. That's an incredible 3 band bill IMO. It was also awesome seeing Nightwish and Epica filling in the 5FDP slot on the Euro shows.
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Just for the fun of it, I decided to take on the challenge and make 3 different/unique setlists for 3 nights that would follow the formula of this tour (3x 72 seasons songs per night, rest spread from the other albums, 16 songs a night, no encore, no repeats, similar structure to the set) and I came up with something like this:
1.
Creeping Death
Harvester of Sorrow
Of Wolf and Man
Until it Sleeps
--
72 Seasons
Screaming Suicide
Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
You Must Burn!
--
The Call of Kthulu
The Memory Remains
The Frayed Ends of Sanity
Nothing Else Matters
--
Moth Into Flame
Fuel
Seek & Destroy
Master of Puppets
2.
Disposable Heroes
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Dyers Eve
King Nothing
--
Lux Aeterna
Too Far Gone?
Fade to Black
Inamorata
--
Orion
The Unforgiven
Spit Out the Bone
The Outlaw Torn
--
Hit the Lights
Sad But True
The Day That Never Comes
One
3.
Whiplash
Ride the Lightning
The Thing That Should Not Be
Low Man's Lyric
--
Chasing Light
Sleepwalk My Life Away
And Justice For All
If Darkness Had a Son
--
Fight Fire With Fire
No Leaf Clover
Wherever I May Roam
Bleeding Me
--
Blackened
Fixxxer
Battery
Enter Sandman
(And i'm still trimming off a bunch of great songs as well as not having any covers in there. Maybe chuck in a 2 song encore in each night if you want some more coverage)
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I would go to those shows.
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I would go to those shows.
It's a shame that many legacy bands like Metallica or Maiden just don't have like 1 or 2 slots in the setlist that is a sort of 'joker' slot where anything goes. Debuting a song never played live before or bringing something out that nobody would see coming. Metallica has done it with their special acoustic shows and Maiden to be fair just brought Alexander the Great out, but there's still so much cool things to do.
I know I keep harping on about Load/Reload era stuff like Fixxxer/Low Man's Lyric/The House That Jack Built (in their defense they have played Bleeding Me and The Outlaw Torn a fair bit) but that's mostly because they've played most of the classic albums a lot over the years. If you're doing a 2 hour show, it's not crazy to think you could 'sacrifice' 10 minutes or so to bring out something really cool and unique, and unexpected in the setlist. You still have plenty of time for the classics and I think you can please both hardcore and casual fans.
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Finally listened to the new Metallica album and its.....fine. There are no bad songs on it but most of it feels so safe. Inamorata is a standout though. Has a nice Black Sabbath like groove to it and a bit of welcomed variety that I wish the rest of the album had.
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There’s some growers on there which I think you’ll agree with after a few more listens. But no, they’re not branching into new territory here and I sure hope no one bet the farm on that happening.
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Now that it's been some time I think it's a pretty decent album. Sure it's closer to the bottom than the top if you rank Metallica albums, but is anyone really expecting them to put out another masterpiece these days? Inamorata, 72 Seasons, Lux Aeterna, If Darkness Had a Son and You Must Burn! stand out for me and I think it has more good than bad on it.
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Now that it's been some time I think it's a pretty decent album. Sure it's closer to the bottom than the top if you rank Metallica albums, but is anyone really expecting them to put out another masterpiece these days? Inamorata, 72 Seasons, Lux Aeterna, If Darkness Had a Son and You Must Burn! stand out for me and I think it has more good than bad on it.
Those songs you mentioned plus Chasing Light, Sleep Walking My Life Away are my designated driving songs. :biggrin:
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Now that it's been some time I think it's a pretty decent album. Sure it's closer to the bottom than the top if you rank Metallica albums, but is anyone really expecting them to put out another masterpiece these days? Inamorata, 72 Seasons, Lux Aeterna, If Darkness Had a Son and You Must Burn! stand out for me and I think it has more good than bad on it.
I'm still enjoying it and playing it couple of times a week, which I'm absolutely shocked by.
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So after years of not touching my guitar, I decided to pick it up. When I played I focused more on leads. I could do rhythm alright, but I couldn't do it properly. As in I alternate picked instead of downpicked everything. So, in my Hetfield-esque aspirations, I am working on rhythm. I've been focusing on playing Master of Puppets only with downpicking, and man... my wrist is fucking tired lol.
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"If Darkness Had a Son" has grown the most for me, considering I'm initially ranked it lowest of the pre-album releases.
What a great tune, love James' references to himself in the first verse, quite powerful.
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James covering James.
Pull Me Under: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yedhS9HEi9o&ab_channel=AIPlaygrounds
This AI things go crazy but I love it.
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It's like Hetfield with a speech impediment.
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It's like Hetfield with a speech impediment.
:lol was thinking the same thing
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James covering James.
Pull Me Under: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yedhS9HEi9o&ab_channel=AIPlaygrounds
This AI things go crazy but I love it.
I checked out many songs on that channel. Some songs sound interesting like Kiss From A Rose and Careless Whisper, and I think he needs to stick with metal if James sings anywhere close to what's there. :lol
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This is cute :biggrin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrI4Oruv_w8
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I'm trying to get a banner made for the show, first time to do so! My photo-editing chops are long gone though, would anyone be interested in making a simple yellow Metallica logo on a black background for me? couple other details as well.
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Happy 60th birthday to James Hetfield!!!! :metal the god of rhytm guitar made flash :hefdaddy
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Happy birthday! I hope they give him a cake tomorrow in NJ, can't wait for Metallica weekend :metal
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Nice I’ll be at MetLife too both Friday and Sunday. I’ll be coming from the Philly airport and getting there probably around 5:30/6, how much of a shitshow do you think the parking situation will be?
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Nice I’ll be at MetLife too both Friday and Sunday. I’ll be coming from the Philly airport and getting there probably around 5:30/6, how much of a shitshow do you think the parking situation will be?
I'd expect some traffic. Prong is playing in lot G at 3pm. I think people will be there early. Mammoth WVh goes on at 6pm as far as I can tell, we are planning to get to the lots around 5pm but Via the train. I'd love to see Prong but 3pm is just too early since I need to work tomorrow.
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Just landed home in NJ late last night ahead of Metallica weekend. Planning on taking a mini road trip to a brewery somewhere, buying some beers, and getting to the stadium parking lot on the early side if possible.
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I really wanted to get there early to see Prong, but I just can't because I need next Thursday/Friday off for my brother's bachelor party, and therefore I needed to be working today. Oh well, I still told my boss I'm out early because I started early today so I can get to the stadium for 5pm, have a drink/smoke in the lot and head in for Wolfie.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F2vJnvBXQAE9eTa?format=jpg&name=large)
Metallica - Battery LIVE @ Metlife Stadium East Rutherford NJ 8/4/2023 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tmxIy2wGU)
Metallica - King Nothing LIVE @ Metlife Stadium East Rutherford NJ 8/4/2023 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcLYVNUlylc)
and well, they did this too :lol
Metallica - Rose Avenue (Rob & Kirk Doodle) LIVE @ Metlife Stadium East Rutherford NJ 8/4/2023 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVPt4iLNk7Y)
Fun night, but honestly didn't love the setlist choices although I got to see a bunch of songs for the first time. However, I'm sure that means night 2 will be better. Definitely a fun night though, Pantera and Wolfie were awesome too.
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Awesome badass photo :metal
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Throw out the rules. Play Shadows both shows.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F2vJnvBXQAE9eTa?format=jpg&name=large)
Metallica - Battery LIVE @ Metlife Stadium East Rutherford NJ 8/4/2023 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tmxIy2wGU)
Metallica - King Nothing LIVE @ Metlife Stadium East Rutherford NJ 8/4/2023 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcLYVNUlylc)
and well, they did this too :lol
Metallica - Rose Avenue (Rob & Kirk Doodle) LIVE @ Metlife Stadium East Rutherford NJ 8/4/2023 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVPt4iLNk7Y)
Fun night, but honestly didn't love the setlist choices although I got to see a bunch of songs for the first time. However, I'm sure that means night 2 will be better. Definitely a fun night though, Pantera and Wolfie were awesome too.
Great picture and it was a fun show for sure. Allowing that they were certainly going to play a few songs from the new album, the only setlist choice I wasn't really thrilled with was Holier Than Thou.
Awesome opening sets for sure, kind of wish they weren't both on Friday because neither opening band today really does much for me.
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According to Reddit Metallica were on fire last night. Any of you lucky fuckers there?
I’m kinda kicking myself for not seeing them at Download back in June. I’ve only seen them live twice (both at UK festivals) but it was truly a religious experience both times. Maybe I’ve missed my chance to see them at the level they apparently performed last night, but hopefully not.
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They were incredible both nights at MetLife, but last night especially.
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I've been watching their tour videos nearly every night for the past few months and I have been super impressed.
James, especially for his age, sounds amazing.
Kirk's playing has made a major return to form, and he's probably on par with where he was in the mid to late '90s.
Rob has really stepped up in the backing vocals department (no Jason, but who is?)
And Lars, well, what can I say? Lars is Lars. I've always enjoyed his playing, and yes, he is as loosey-goosey as ever, but I am way past the point in my life where I care to dissect the performances of musicians I admire, especially when the band as a whole is delivering the goods.
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So the Minneapolis stop on this tour isn't for another year. I'm not typically an arena show person, but there's no other way to see Metallica. I saw them once back in 2000. As a long time fan, I feel like I should see them on this tour. Not that it's a farewell tour or anything, but it does seem like a special tour. My only hesitation is that the only tickets that are reasonable for my budget are not going to be great seats. I can't get myself to pay the prices for any better seats. I'm used to paying $30 or less for club shows for most of the bands I like.
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So the Minneapolis stop on this tour isn't for another year. I'm not typically an arena show person, but there's no other way to see Metallica. I saw them once back in 2000. As a long time fan, I feel like I should see them on this tour. Not that it's a farewell tour or anything, but it does seem like a special tour. My only hesitation is that the only tickets that are reasonable for my budget are not going to be great seats. I can't get myself to pay the prices for any better seats. I'm used to paying $30 or less for club shows for most of the bands I like.
I got my tickets the day of each show. Spent 60 bucks on nosebleeds for night one, then spent 120 on 100 level seats for night two. It’s a risk as there’s always a chance they sell out, but if tickets are still available the day of, you can get them for pretty cheap.
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So the Minneapolis stop on this tour isn't for another year. I'm not typically an arena show person, but there's no other way to see Metallica. I saw them once back in 2000. As a long time fan, I feel like I should see them on this tour. Not that it's a farewell tour or anything, but it does seem like a special tour. My only hesitation is that the only tickets that are reasonable for my budget are not going to be great seats. I can't get myself to pay the prices for any better seats. I'm used to paying $30 or less for club shows for most of the bands I like.
Yea man, I feel kinda the same. I owe it to myself to go see them before they are no longer performing.
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MetLife was unbelievable. The band was on fire and for as old as they're getting, the band still has the energy and drive to create an amazing show. Highlights of both nights were the instrumentals, and the opening songs.
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The debuted Too Far Gone on night 2! Definitely one of my faves from 72 Seasons.
Agreed on Rob. He is no Jason vocally, but he has definitely stepped it up on the backing vocals this tour.
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The debuted Too Far Gone on night 2! Definitely one of my faves from 72 Seasons.
Agreed on Rob. He is no Jason vocally, but he has definitely stepped it up on the backing vocals this tour.
Let me preface this by saying that I really like the album, and would rate it higher than Hardwired at this point.
That said, "Too Far Gone" is, hands down, my favorite song on the album. In fact, when I first heard "Lux Eterna," I was hoping for an entire album of songs in the vein of "Too Far Gone."
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Yeah, so I don't know exactly what it was (setlist maybe?) but Metallica were much better last night than night 1. My gf agreed as we both looked at each other about half way through the set in agreement that the overall vibe was much better. Sound was significantly better too. Crowd seemed way more into it right from the start. And I think starting with three 80s songs really just upped the crowd. There were some nice big mosh pits on the floor, bigger than Friday.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F25f_taWoAAn6MY?format=jpg&name=large)
Metallica - Whiskey In The Jar LIVE @ Metlife Stadium East Rutherford NJ 8/6/2023 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAgUlVHaiOo)
Metallica - Too Far Gone? (LIVE Debut) @ Metlife Stadium East Rutherford NJ 8/6/2023 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wh2KRuCrFQ)
Metallica - Ride The Lightning LIVE @ Metlife Stadium East Rutherford NJ 8/6/2023 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7f0j3UshtM)
I think at the end of the day, I'm not a fan of this stage. It's pretty cool and impressive, but it's kind of hard to follow the members on stage. They kind of get lost sometimes in the lights or in the areas that we being blocked by the big stands/screens/speakers surrounding the stage. I get the point of being in the round too. I think it would just work better with a smaller stage and more focus on the band playing together instead of so spread out. I do think it was cool how Lars' drum set played in all four corners of the circle. I didn't know at all how this happened on night 1, but I paid more attention and saw that the drum set does move from underneath the stage. Very cool and you are easily distracted because there's usually some video or intro music playing with the lights off as this happens.
Both nights Kirk and Rob did their doodle together. I honestly think as cool as it is to see some guys just fuck around, it's incredibly boring and uninteresting. What they did last night was terrible. The first night was better, but still. It was the one part of the night where everyone in my section sat down. I also thought it was funny that Rob did the same intro to the doodle both nights as if most of the crowd wasn't there the previous night :lol
As mentioned, I enjoyed the setlist for night 2 better. Blackened may have been the most wild song of the weekend. Biggest mosh pit and crowd went wild for it. Personally, I LOVED getting to see Ride The Lightning. Also since it followed For Whom The Bell Tolls, I think the crowd just was really eating it up and RtL is my favorite Metallica album. I think of the 3x 72 Seasons songs from each night, the 3 from night 2 are more of my favorites than night 1. It was pretty cool to get to see 2 live debuts. The Unforgiven was also awesome. For night 1, I loved King Nothing but it seemed the crowd didn't care too much for it. The Day That Never Comes I could do without, but I was reminded that it really is one of their better songs from that album and I'm glad I got to see it.
Both nights they had these huge blow up balls drop and it was just so much that it was really fun to watch. It's like the band got swarmed with them too on stage. Probably would have been a lot of fun on the floor for those songs.
Contrary to my pictures, not much pyro. Night 1 had pyro for Fuel and thats it. Night 2 had pyro for Moth Into Flame and the intro to One. No fireworks after the show. No actual encores, although both nights were a solid 2 hours. The band did come out after the end to talk to the crowd for a bit both nights, both nights I was already trying to exit the stadium so I didn't catch much of what they had to say.
Overall, awesome weekend. Enjoyed watching the opening bands. I think my tickets came out, per ticket per day after taxes/fess to $93. My seat wasn't great, but certainly not a bad seat. (200 level endzone aisle seats) I thought that was a great value.
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Was at MetLife this weekend. I thought the shows were incredible. I hadn't been keeping up with setlists, so it was mostly a surprise. I had been spoiled on social media from their first show that they had played Orion, You Must Burn!, and Until It Sleeps (which they ended up not playing, sadly)... But the 32 songs we ended up with were fantastic all around.
I gotta say the sound was much better than I was anticipating for a stadium show. Last time I went to MetLife was on the Hardwired tour in 2017 and the sound was poor at best. This sounded very nice where I was (nosebleeds). Setlist was great, lots of older stuff, new album stuff, but also hit every album at least once (except St. Anger). I wouldn't have minded a Frantic or something else from the album, but it didn't matter.
Overall, go see this show if you're on the fence. I don't think any Metallica fan would leave disappointed.
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So the Minneapolis stop on this tour isn't for another year. I'm not typically an arena show person, but there's no other way to see Metallica. I saw them once back in 2000. As a long time fan, I feel like I should see them on this tour. Not that it's a farewell tour or anything, but it does seem like a special tour. My only hesitation is that the only tickets that are reasonable for my budget are not going to be great seats. I can't get myself to pay the prices for any better seats. I'm used to paying $30 or less for club shows for most of the bands I like.
I got my tickets the day of each show. Spent 60 bucks on nosebleeds for night one, then spent 120 on 100 level seats for night two. It’s a risk as there’s always a chance they sell out, but if tickets are still available the day of, you can get them for pretty cheap.
For now there are tons of seats left for the Minneapolis show, so I'm not in a huge hurry to make a decision. I think the seats I'm looking at are $140 for both night (probably $550 after fees :lol) I hate that I'm so frugal sometimes, but that is a lot of money for me to shell out on two nights of concerts in a single weekend. Decent seats are $300 plus for both nights. Seats as close as I usually am for concerts are $1000+. I know being there live is better than watching videos, but seeing the guys like ants on the stage doesn't sound like an awesome experience.
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So the Minneapolis stop on this tour isn't for another year. I'm not typically an arena show person, but there's no other way to see Metallica. I saw them once back in 2000. As a long time fan, I feel like I should see them on this tour. Not that it's a farewell tour or anything, but it does seem like a special tour. My only hesitation is that the only tickets that are reasonable for my budget are not going to be great seats. I can't get myself to pay the prices for any better seats. I'm used to paying $30 or less for club shows for most of the bands I like.
I got my tickets the day of each show. Spent 60 bucks on nosebleeds for night one, then spent 120 on 100 level seats for night two. It’s a risk as there’s always a chance they sell out, but if tickets are still available the day of, you can get them for pretty cheap.
For now there are tons of seats left for the Minneapolis show, so I'm not in a huge hurry to make a decision. I think the seats I'm looking at are $140 for both night (probably $550 after fees :lol) I hate that I'm so frugal sometimes, but that is a lot of money for me to shell out on two nights of concerts in a single weekend. Decent seats are $300 plus for both nights. Seats as close as I usually am for concerts are $1000+. I know being there live is better than watching videos, but seeing the guys like ants on the stage doesn't sound like an awesome experience.
I noticed some $30 tickets yesterday before the show. It did seem like some ticket deals were available. Metlife was almost sold out, but not quite and it just seemed like tickets were available near start of show for better prices (I didn't check on Friday though).
As for the bolded, being in the round's benefit is the times they are facing you, you get a better view than if you had shit seats in a traditional set up. WHat does suck, is the screens they have are pretty small too. They didn't use the big screens in Metlife, just the ones surrounding the stage. And while I really try not to watch the screens normally, it was much easier for this show since the screens were small enough that I might as well watch the ants.
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Did anyone else notice Kirk's solo during Harvester Of Sorrow on Friday night? I couldn't tell if it was intentional but the second half of the solo was not even remotely like any other time I've heard him play it live.
And, surprisingly, I seem to be the only person who preferred Friday night's setlist. I've always loved Creeping Death live. Battery and MoP are my #1 and 2 favorite Metallica songs. And, for me, 72 Seasons and Shadows Follow are the 2 best songs from the new album. Too Far Gone and You Must Burn are just too mid-tempo and plodding for me. Both nights were really good. On Sunday, for me personally, there were just more "down" moments. And, those Rob/Kirk jams are a complete waste of time!
As far as the openers go... Wolfie was good. I love the 1st album, haven't gotten a chance to listen to the 2nd album yet. Pantera was incredible! It was so great to see a sober Phil singing those songs again, A really solid set. I'm sure IceNineKills has an audience. They just weren't for me. And, while I've been aware of 5FDP, other than their cover songs, I'd never heard them live. I was surprised with how melodic the singing was. What I really enjoyed about them, though, was how Ivan (singer) was smiling and interacting with the crowd. He was genuinely having a great time himself.
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I'm not much of a FFDP fan, but I agree that Ivan's crowd interaction is top notch. I can't believe how many people were throwing their phones on stage for him to take videos and throw back. Also all the clothing items being thrown at him (mostly hats, don't think I saw any bras :lol). Also Ice Nine Kills musically wasn't my tastes, but they definitely put on an entertaining set. Even though I enjoy Mammoth WVH a lot more, I thought Ice Nine Kills were probably the better of the two openers. And Pantera were easily the best of the 4.
My full videos from both shows are finished with basically all of video footage including the openers:
Metallica Five Finger Death Punch Ice Nine Kills LIVE @ Metlife Stadium East Rutherford NJ 8/6/2023 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiQq8Ha7VPo)
Metallica Pantera & Mammoth WVH LIVE @ Metlife Stadium East Rutherford NJ 8/4/2023 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZhFLX7fw40)
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I gotta say the whole weekend was a blast. I thought Metallica was on point both nights and did a great job filling out the two setlists. I could have done with one less Black Album song each night (Holier Than Though and Wherever I May Roam respectively), but otherwise a very good mix of material. The new songs were mostly fine to good live, and James's voice sounded pretty strong. I'd agree with cram, Pantera had the best set of all the openers. The whole damn building lost it's collective mind for Walk, holy shit was that intense :metal I was also really impressed with Five Finger Death Punch. I didn't love some of the harsher vocals, but there was some cool riffage and solos and the frontman Ivan was just very engaging and seemed like a genuine and positive dude. Don't know that I'd start collecting their albums, but I'd for sure make the effort to see them live again.
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Whaaaaat? I'd sell people on the black market for a chance to hear Wherever I May Roam live :biggrin:
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Whaaaaat? I'd sell people on the black market for a chance to hear Wherever I May Roam live :biggrin:
It's not one of my favorites and I'd be cool with a different song, but the song definitely rocked live and the crowd was into it. Holier Than Thou can go though. For some reason, that song gets played every time I see Metallica and it needs to stop, it's not worthy of that treatment.
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Rick Beato's interview with Kirk is up..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhq_Efx9Ug
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Kirk is a weird fuck. Seems like he's only recently started doing interviews, as this is only the second time I've actually heard him speak in any detail. I understand why people assumed he's gay (and who knows, maybe he is, but nobody cares anymore), but it seems to me he's just an airhead so-Cal surfer boy. I think that boy spent all of his educational years hanging out on a beach smoking dope.
edit: and I don't mean that in a bad way. Hell, growing up one of my heroes was Jeff Spicoli. :lol
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Criminy, tonight's show is going to be a massive amount of work. It's about a perfect storm. Parking was sold out pretty much as soon as it went on sale (and at $75+/car), so the next available parking is private lots .75 to 1.25 miles out. It's supposed to hit 110 today. There's a Rangers game happening right next door, adding to the chaos. Because of Pantera (and this is their hometown show) it's a full house at Jerry World. The only good part about it all is the early start time, so the baseball fans won't be a problem until after the show.
I'm actually pretty excited about it, but man, it's going to be a trial. :lol
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Damn 75 to park?! It was 40 at Metlife Stadium. Sounds like a lot of effort to attend, but it'll probably be worth it. Have fun :metal
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Criminy, tonight's show is going to be a massive amount of work. It's about a perfect storm. Parking was sold out pretty much as soon as it went on sale (and at $75+/car), so the next available parking is private lots .75 to 1.25 miles out. It's supposed to hit 110 today. There's a Rangers game happening right next door, adding to the chaos. Because of Pantera (and this is their hometown show) it's a full house at Jerry World. The only good part about it all is the early start time, so the baseball fans won't be a problem until after the show.
I'm actually pretty excited about it, but man, it's going to be a trial. :lol
I hope you get hear Enter Sandman and Nothing Else Matters!
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Kirk is a weird fuck. Seems like he's only recently started doing interviews, as this is only the second time I've actually heard him speak in any detail. I understand why people assumed he's gay (and who knows, maybe he is, but nobody cares anymore), but it seems to me he's just an airhead so-Cal surfer boy. I think that boy spent all of his educational years hanging out on a beach smoking dope.
edit: and I don't mean that in a bad way. Hell, growing up one of my heroes was Jeff Spicoli. :lol
He is a weird dude. A little too flighty for me. HAHA.
Though I like that look a lot (except for the shoes).
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Does Metallica have anything to do with the parking prices?
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Does Metallica have anything to do with the parking prices?
None at all. That's entirely on Jerry Jones and whoever owns the surrounding businesses.
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Kirk is a weird fuck. Seems like he's only recently started doing interviews, as this is only the second time I've actually heard him speak in any detail. I understand why people assumed he's gay (and who knows, maybe he is, but nobody cares anymore), but it seems to me he's just an airhead so-Cal surfer boy. I think that boy spent all of his educational years hanging out on a beach smoking dope.
edit: and I don't mean that in a bad way. Hell, growing up one of my heroes was Jeff Spicoli. :lol
If I remember correctly, I believe Kirk has stage fright. I guess it carries over to interviews, hence them being few and far between as well as the nervous energy you see from him.
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Lady sitting behind us at the 2nd show asked Barto if she can run her fingers through his beard.
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Lady sitting behind us at the 2nd show asked Barto if she can run her fingers through his beard.
And did he let her?
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Lady sitting behind us at the 2nd show asked Barto if she can run her fingers through his beard.
And did he let her?
He said, and this is an exact quote, "why would you wanna do that?"
Whether he let her or not I'm not sure cause I went back to headbanging and singing while the exchange was still going heh
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That's the only update from the show? :rollin I mean, it's a worthy mention for sure.
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That's the only update from the show? :rollin I mean, it's a worthy mention for sure.
Thought it was worth its own post lol
I haven't slept since the show but I'll definitely share my thoughts about it when I wake up ✌️
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That's the only update from the show? :rollin I mean, it's a worthy mention for sure.
Thought it was worth its own post lol
I haven't slept since the show but I'll definitely share my thoughts about it when I wake up ✌️
Seriously? I managed 7 hours, but I self medicated kinda hard.
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Both shows were excellent. Setlists pretty much tell the story.
Creeping Whiplash
Harvester Bellz
Leper Ride
King Nothing Dirty Window
Lux 72 Seasons
Too Far Gone If Darkness had a Son
Sanitarium Fade
Shadows Follow You Must Burn
ORION Ktulu
NEM No Leaf Clover
Sad but True Roam
Day that Never Comes Moth
Hardwired Battery
Fuel WHiskey
Seek One
Master Sandman
They laid hard into Master on night one and Ride night two. Pretty much the best I could have hoped for. I'd never seen Orion nor Ktulu, and Orion was the song I was most hoping to see. Metty was most interested in Bellz, so we both did well.
Both nights were packed. News outlets are reporting approximately 100k, but that's a likely a bit optimistic. 80k seats sold is a lock, but I seriously doubt there were 20k on the floor.
I dug Wolfie's band. They were Alice in Changes but with a Van Halen playing the solos. Pantera did absolutely nothing for me, and we quite sensibly skipped the night two openers.
What the fuck kind of band brings so few event shirts that they sell out 2 hours before the show even starts? Seriously uncool. When you're turning a 1000% profit on the things it kind of makes sense to aim high.
Hats off to Metty who was my benefactor for the weekend, and sympathies to his brother whose tickets I got. We had good seats night one, and I "upgraded" us to slightly better ones for night two.
(https://i.imgur.com/aO3TD8A.jpg)
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That's the only update from the show? :rollin I mean, it's a worthy mention for sure.
Thought it was worth its own post lol
I haven't slept since the show but I'll definitely share my thoughts about it when I wake up ✌️
Seriously? I managed 7 hours, but I self medicated kinda hard.
I still had an adrenaline high when I got back to the hotel, so I packed up and left. I only got to sleep around 9 am!
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I dug Wolfie's band. They were Alice in Changes but with a Van Halen playing the solos. Pantera did absolutely nothing for me, and we quite sensibly skipped the night two openers.
I concur, Mammoth WVH were the only opener worth a fuck. I'm actually listening to some of their stuff on youtube now and contemplating buying the new album.
What the fuck kind of band brings so few event shirts that they sell out 2 hours before the show even starts? Seriously uncool. When you're turning a 1000% profit on the things it kind of makes sense to aim high.
Still pretty bummed about that. There were two different t-shirts for each of the shows and they were both cool designs but we couldn't score either.
The shows were as damn near perfect as it gets. I lost most of my vocal capacity on night 1 (Friday) then the rest of it on the Metallica takeover events (Saturday) and was running on fumes come night 2 (Sunday) but still gave it all I got and now my throat hurts like crazy and my neck is stiff as fuck. I'm on a Ibuprofen/Tylenol rotation every 4 hours; I kid you not.
I went in premierly wanting Harvester and Bellz, with some wishful thinking for Thingy that I knew was unlikely.
Not only did I get both tracks, but I even got that terrific line-up of Ecstacy of Gold -- Creeping Death -- Harvester, which was my favorite setlist-flow from back when I was collecting their live audio bootlegs, it was how they opened a lot of shows from late 1992 and 1993.
From 72 Seasons, I wanted Lux Æterna, Darkness and the title track. Got all of these plus Shadows Follow which was incredible live.
If I gotta whine about something, and that would truly be whining cause I had an amazing time, it would be the chosen representatives of Death Magnetic and St. Anger. I'd have prefered All Nightmare Long or Cyanide for the first and Frantic or St. Anger for the latter.
As to Hardwired; I'm happy we got the title track, but I wish the 2nd choice was Halo of Fire, I deeply dislike Moth Into Flame.
I'm also not a fan of Ride The Lightning's title track.
Saturday was a blast as well. The tribute bands Metallica brought out to tour with them ranged from terrific to really good, they were also pretty cool to hang out with after the show and share stories about how their participation in this M72 thing came about.
Then I left that venue to the bar where Bastardane and Otto were playing, they're Castor Hetfield and Tye Trujillo's bands respectively, but otherwise they've got nothing at all to do with Metallica, yet advertised as part of "Metallica Takeover" weekend. They turned out to be pretty good bands anyway.
Seeing Castor Hetfield (https://ibb.co/cTF1HtL) in person was pretty fascinating; it's like looking at James Hetfield from any 1985/86 videos.
I watched Otto's set, Tye Trujillo's band, with his dad (https://ibb.co/DM4t8WC). A fellow fan club chapter member snapped some cool shots of that.
I'm sure I left out a shit ton of details but that's all that came to mind right now.
Last, but not least, the weekend was made significantly easier and a hell lot more fun because I was fortunate enough to have the company of the chief concert strategist and his chick-magnet beard!
(https://i.ibb.co/YPLvs7s/369233360-264796139651827-5322597928845606602-n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BcC8MVM)
* I remain a conscientious objector of the DTF middle finger tradition heh
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Saw the Sunday night show at the movie theater. I'm really thinking about hitting both Phoenix shows. Seeing Hetfield playing all those riffs, just made feel like he is the best riff writer ever.
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Lovely write-up, Progmetty, and great photo of you both to finish with :biggrin:
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I dug Wolfie's band. They were Alice in Changes but with a Van Halen playing the solos. Pantera did absolutely nothing for me, and we quite sensibly skipped the night two openers.
Interesting to say you got nothing out of Pantera. I know it's basically a tribute, but figured their set in TX might be a bit more interesting than say NJ (where they were easily the best of the 4 openers, and I'm a big wolfie fan). FFDP kind of sucks, and I didn't care for INK but they at least had a very entertaining set. Pretty cool though that 80k+ showed up. I'd guess that was probably the same turn out for Metlife. Which is actually pretty incredible to get that many people out to a metal show. Metallica truly are the biggest metal band out there.
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Lovely write-up, Progmetty, and great photo of you both to finish with :biggrin:
Yeah, jealous of that! That looks like a good time for sure! :)
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Lovely write-up, Progmetty, and great photo of you both to finish with :biggrin:
Yeah, jealous of that! That looks like a good time for sure! :)
and we fucked up not doing one at dreamsonic. I realized that the next morning sadly. That is a great pic and nice to see Progmetty :metal
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Prometty looks about as exactly as I'd picture him. Maybe it's because he does kind of look like his avatar.
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Lovely write-up, Progmetty, and great photo of you both to finish with :biggrin:
Yeah, jealous of that! That looks like a good time for sure! :)
and we fucked up not doing one at dreamsonic. I realized that the next morning sadly. That is a great pic and nice to see Progmetty :metal
Thanks fellas!
Prometty looks about as exactly as I'd picture him. Maybe it's because he does kind of look like his avatar.
I've become Nelson Muntz; the destroyer of balls.
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I dug Wolfie's band. They were Alice in Changes but with a Van Halen playing the solos. Pantera did absolutely nothing for me, and we quite sensibly skipped the night two openers.
Interesting to say you got nothing out of Pantera. I know it's basically a tribute, but figured their set in TX might be a bit more interesting than say NJ (where they were easily the best of the 4 openers, and I'm a big wolfie fan). FFDP kind of sucks, and I didn't care for INK but they at least had a very entertaining set. Pretty cool though that 80k+ showed up. I'd guess that was probably the same turn out for Metlife. Which is actually pretty incredible to get that many people out to a metal show. Metallica truly are the biggest metal band out there.
:tup
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Metallica has unveiled the official live video of their performance of "Hardwired," recorded in Montréal
https://lotsofmuzik.com/metallica-unveils-official-live-video-of-hardwired-in-montreal/
:metal
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https://loudwire.com/dee-snider-criticizes-metallica-no-repeat-weekend/
I don’t think I could possible disagree with Dee anymore. First of all don’t put Twisted Sister in the same sentence as Metallica and Kiss.
Metallica is able to pull off this gimmick because of the amount of hits they have in their catalogue. They latest albums are still relevant. Finally most of the crowd are doing both shows so they are basically getting a 32 song set.
Also I'll fight anyone who dared boo seeing A Matter of Life and Dead in full. I'll fight them right now.
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https://loudwire.com/dee-snider-criticizes-metallica-no-repeat-weekend/
I don’t think I could possible disagree with Dee anymore. First of all don’t put Twisted Sister in the same sentence as Metallica and Kiss.
Metallica is able to pull off this gimmick because of the amount of hits they have in their catalogue. They latest albums are still relevant. Finally most of the crowd are doing both shows so they are basically getting a 32 song set.
From the article:
…people like you are the minority; they're not even close to the majority. You're 10%, 5%, 1% of the crowd who really want to hear those deep cuts and will savor it when they go into those songs.
Sorry if I come across as a “gatekeeper” but seriously F everyone else. You know how irritating it is to go to an Iron Maiden show and have some drunk idiot behind me who has never listened to a single note that wasn’t on anything between NOTB-PS screaming that he wants to hear Powerslave, and when SOTC starts up you’re trying to tell him to shut the crap up because my favorite song is starting, and he’s too myopic to even know what the song is???
No wonder I don’t go to shows anymore. I almost WANT to go see Metallica again (haven’t seen them since the Black Album) BECAUSE they are doing this. If they are just going to parade out an entire set of RTL-TBA night after night, they will never get another dime from me.
Ugh…passive music fans ruin music. It’s freaking maddening.
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And for the record…catering to that 5% is what shows you still care. The absence of giving a crap about that 5% is the absence of giving a crap about your fans.
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I would add that majority of a Metallica crowd is there to see Metallica not specific songs while a TS crowd (if they still toured) would be there to see we all know what songs
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Dee comes off as jealous. They are on a STADIUM tour playing TWO shows in each city. :lol
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Oddly enough, I don’t think the two sets have nearly enough deep cuts. They have soooo many hits that it’s basically two nights of hits and a handful of other songs.
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Another thing that I thought of that ticks me off about Dee’s statement is that he’s of the opinion that the artist is *obligated* to play what the masses want. I have always really hated that idea.
“Yet it was for me, not you, I came to write this song.” - The Professor
Even though Rush always played Tom Sawyer, Neil always said that it was still a challenge after all those years to play it correctly. And personally, I never felt like the band was “obligated” to play anything at all. And my favorite later day tours, were the SAA and CA tours where at least a third or more was newer material.
I didn’t think this would irritate me so much. I guess I need to :chill
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I’m not a big TS fan but Dee is a business man first and foremost and his business is music. I’m confident he’d admit that. So from a business perspective, I see it.
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Also I'll fight anyone who dared boo seeing A Matter of Life and Dead in full. I'll fight them right now.
I didn't boo, but it was my first time seeing Maiden and it's easily my least favorite of the 5-6 times I've seen them live.
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Also I'll fight anyone who dared boo seeing A Matter of Life and Dead in full. I'll fight them right now.
I’m right with you, brother. I would have laid down several C-notes to see that show. The very idea that anyone wouldn’t appreciate what is going to go down in history as the “holy grail” of Maiden shows just makes me shake my head.
Of course the *one tour* that I wanted to see more than any other, is the *one tour* they didn’t give an official release to…and probably never will.
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Also I'll fight anyone who dared boo seeing A Matter of Life and Dead in full. I'll fight them right now.
I didn't boo, but it was my first time seeing Maiden and it's easily my least favorite of the 5-6 times I've seen them live.
I missed the show in Boston because we were in Disney at the time. One problem was that the East Coast dates were right after the album was released. I just don't think people had enough time to soak it in yet. Thankfully there's a bunch of great boots from that tour, both video and audio.
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Also I'll fight anyone who dared boo seeing A Matter of Life and Dead in full. I'll fight them right now.
I didn't boo, but it was my first time seeing Maiden and it's easily my least favorite of the 5-6 times I've seen them live.
I missed the show in Boston because we were in Disney at the time. One problem was that the East Coast dates were right after the album was released. I just don't think people had enough time to soak it in yet. Thankfully there's a bunch of great boots from that tour, both video and audio.
Yeah, the NJ show was right after the album dropped and nobody really knew it yet. I'm not even against them playing the whole thing, but I think they might have been better served alternating 2-3 new songs with an old song just to keep the crowd engaged. The crowd energy was so low by the time they got to the classics.
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I completely understand that. It took a while for the album to sink in at the time.
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I’m not a big TS fan but Dee is a business man first and foremost and his business is music. I’m confident he’d admit that. So from a business perspective, I see it.
Sure, the thing is Metallica has such a deep catalog of very recognizable songs in their 40+ years career that they can get away with something like this two nights, no repeated songs that other bands just aren't able to and still pack stadiums and have 50k+ people a night and give the majority of the crowd a great show.
On top of that, Metallica seems to be a band throughout their entire career to not play by other bands' rules or formats or structure. What worked for other bands, not necessarily work out for themselves. Other bands can only envy that they would have as deep as a catalog that Metallica has that they can get away with play various songs that they created that the fans can enjoy.
Edit: On a sadder note, James have COVID, they got to postpone night two in their shows in Phoenix.
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The other band he mentioned, KISS, could pull it off too. I’m not saying filling an arena or anything just saying they have a deep enough discography they could pull off a two 16 song setlists with no repeats and fans would go home happy.
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Also I'll fight anyone who dared boo seeing A Matter of Life and Dead in full. I'll fight them right now.
I didn't boo, but it was my first time seeing Maiden and it's easily my least favorite of the 5-6 times I've seen them live.
I missed the show in Boston because we were in Disney at the time. One problem was that the East Coast dates were right after the album was released. I just don't think people had enough time to soak it in yet. Thankfully there's a bunch of great boots from that tour, both video and audio.
Yeah, the NJ show was right after the album dropped and nobody really knew it yet. I'm not even against them playing the whole thing, but I think they might have been better served alternating 2-3 new songs with an old song just to keep the crowd engaged. The crowd energy was so low by the time they got to the classics.
Thinking about this. First time I saw Maiden was in 2010 and they played majority post reunion stuff and it was amazing. I think the reason being is I came on board with Maiden right after Dance of Death. So songs from the reunion records, AMoLaD meant just as much to me and where just as much classics as Hills, Hallowed, Trooper, etc. AMoLaD was my first new Maiden record experience and I loved every song. Still my favorite Maiden record so yeah I'd enjoy that more than loving the setlist to say the Somewhere Back In Time tour setlist.
To bring it back to Metallica I was introduced to them via S&M. So Load songs were just as much classics to me as Black Album, 80s stuff. I selfishly hope for some Load cuts when I see them. I'd rather hear Bleeding Me, Outlaw, Sleeps, King Nothing than many 80's classics. I'm sure the same can be said about folks who came on board with DM, Hardwired, and 72. Because of these bands longevity and ability to stay relevant for multiple generations they have classics from multiple eras.
Not to shit on Dee cause I like Dee and more often than not agree with him but Twisted Sister stopped making albums in what 87? Nobody is being introduced to anything new by them. (I dig his solo work that being said). So yeah every generation is being introduced to TS with the same two-three songs and expect to hear them.
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Forget about Dee Snider.
The way more important news is that a dog ran away to attend a Metallica show, and was reunited with her owner the day after ;D
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And that James has Covid-19 so they postponed yesterday's show.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/james_hetfield_tests_positive_for_covid-19_metallica_postpones_show.html
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Also I'll fight anyone who dared boo seeing A Matter of Life and Dead in full. I'll fight them right now.
I didn't boo, but it was my first time seeing Maiden and it's easily my least favorite of the 5-6 times I've seen them live.
I missed the show in Boston because we were in Disney at the time. One problem was that the East Coast dates were right after the album was released. I just don't think people had enough time to soak it in yet. Thankfully there's a bunch of great boots from that tour, both video and audio.
Yeah, the NJ show was right after the album dropped and nobody really knew it yet. I'm not even against them playing the whole thing, but I think they might have been better served alternating 2-3 new songs with an old song just to keep the crowd engaged. The crowd energy was so low by the time they got to the classics.
I LOVED that NJ show, but I think I was the only one :lol people were booing in my section.
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Just got around to reading that article. Dee IS right, though; the problem is, it's just not a one-sized-fits-all comment. Twisted is not doing two nights in a row at stadia; they're probably not even headlining over a medium sized theater. They HAVE to play the hits. They also don't have a very deep catalogue. "Come Back" blows; it's not that it's a "deep cut", it's that it sucks. Maiden did AMOLAD, but they have always - at least since the reunion and before COVID - alternated album tours with legacy tours, so all the fans have got their sort of moment in the sun. You want hits? You're the 95%? Go to the "Legacy Of The Beast" show. You want deep cuts? Go to the "Somewhere in Senjustsu" or whatever the hell it's called tour.
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Just got around to reading that article. Dee IS right, though; the problem is, it's just not a one-sized-fits-all comment. Twisted is not doing two nights in a row at stadia; they're probably not even headlining over a medium sized theater. They HAVE to play the hits. They also don't have a very deep catalogue. "Come Back" blows; it's not that it's a "deep cut", it's that it sucks. Maiden did AMOLAD, but they have always - at least since the reunion and before COVID - alternated album tours with legacy tours, so all the fans have got their sort of moment in the sun. You want hits? You're the 95%? Go to the "Legacy Of The Beast" show. You want deep cuts? Go to the "Somewhere in Senjustsu" or whatever the hell it's called tour.
Also, in today's day in age, there is no 'bait and switch' here.
If you bought a ticket and went to Maiden and didn't know what to expect, that's on you. The band is VERY vocal and upfront about what they are doing with each tour.
Metallica has been equally transparent, and judging from the set-lists, their sets are still 70-80% 'fan favorites,' and the 'deep cuts' are a handful, if that.
I like Dee, mostly because he speaks his mind and doesn't try to sugarcoat his thoughts. He's entitled to his opinion, but I couldn't disagree more.
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Yeah, Dee's comments work for him, not Metallica. So I don't agree with him in this case, but for other bands, it makes sense.
Metallica has been equally transparent, and judging from the set-lists, their sets are still 70-80% 'fan favorites,' and the 'deep cuts' are a handful, if that.
Also this. Their tour was well advertised for what's happening. For my 3rd ticket, we split it between my friend for night 1 and my gf's father for night 2 so both knew going in that they weren't going to see all the hits. My friend didn't mind he got Master of Puppets and not Enter Sandman and my gf's father was happy he got Enter Sandman and not MoP. It all mostly worked out here. Honestly, I thought it was incredible to get to see 32 different songs. I wish they did some more deep cuts as I feel the only thing really deep was digging into the new album. And how can you not expect them too?
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Dee's mistaken simply because he doesn't realize how many Metallica songs people regard as hits. Looking at the two night setlists, 9 songs from each night are the staples that people can always expect to hear any given concert. He's right that people who go to see Maiden want to hear Number, Fear, Hallowed, etc. If they don't get them they'll be disappointed. People at Metallica are expecting to hear Sandman, NEM, Master, One, SBT, etc, and they got all of them plus some other pretty cool songs.
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Red Hot Chili Peppers have that same problem. Too many hit songs to play them all in one night plus try to cover the new songs. I respect that both bands play different stuff each night to handle this the best they can.
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I'm looking at the songs they played in Inglewood (which sadly I wasn't there for as I was in Grand Rapids and Chicago for other stuff). I see 11 songs that would be staples on any given night, three new songs, and two songs that aren't regulars, but I'm sure people would like to hear (Leper Messiah and Orion) on night 1. Night 2 has 9 songs that would be staples on any given night, 3 new songs, and three songs from Ride the Lightning that aren't staples, but I'm sure people would like to hear (Whiplash, Ride the Lightning, and The Call of Ktulu) and one St. Anger song.
I'm not sure what the reactions are when it comes to the instrumentals. I know I was really pumped for Orion once I heard the intro at the 40th anniversary show (I was a bit bummed they didn't play Call of Ktulu on night 2), but I'm not sure how it fares in stadiums. Orion and Call of Ktulu aren't hits, but these songs are still very important to Metallica and ones that people would love to hear live, no?
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I think people generally enjoyed the instrumentals. I actually went to the bathroom, grabbed a drink and hot dog, during both instrumentals. It just made sense since I could easily hear it while doing that. But the songs are good and people liked them, the facilities were empty so it seemed I was the only one leaving the stands during those songs in my section and I'd only miss half the song maybe.
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In Dallas Orion was gangbusters. Crowd loved it. Ktulu didn't go over quite as well the next night, but it led into No Leaf Clover which went over great. Crowd was really into that. I honestly thought Clover was the highlight of night 2.
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So I was listening to some of the bonus tracks off the super deluxe, all singing, all dancing version of Justice, and came across the track below...
https://spotify.link/fPLA21gQTDb (https://spotify.link/fPLA21gQTDb)
It's titled 'Blackened - 1987 / From James' Riff Tapes 2'. I never knew this, but it was actually Jason who came up with the main Blackened riff, and you can hear him playing it right here. I'm not sure if this is common knowledge or not. As a pretty huge fan myself, this was news to me! Justice for Jason!
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Doesn't Jason have a writing credit in it? I thought he did.
I'll definitely check out that link.
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Doesn't Jason have a writing credit in it? I thought he did.
I'll definitely check out that link.
I've never checked the writing credits to be honest. I know he famously only had one writing credit on The Black Album.
I've just checked, and he is credited for Blackened, I can't believe I've never heard anyone talk about that before. That Blackened riff is iconic and arguably their greatest riff! Good on Jason.
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Blackened is awesome.
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Luke, I assume you've heard the first Flotsam album? Jason wrote most of it.
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Blackened is awesome.
Nope, Blackened is the end.
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Luke, I assume you've heard the first Flotsam album? Jason wrote most of it.
I've probably only heard it once or twice. I've got a playlist loaded up with a shit ton of classic thrash/death metal albums, which has all the Flotsam and Jetsam albums on it. I've yet to hear one that's really blown me away yet though.
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Blackened is awesome.
Nope, Blackened is the end.
It's true. :lol
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Luke, I assume you've heard the first Flotsam album? Jason wrote most of it.
I've probably only heard it once or twice. I've got a playlist loaded up with a shit ton of classic thrash/death metal albums, which has all the Flotsam and Jetsam albums on it. I've yet to hear one that's really blown me away yet though.
Is this a spotify playlist? F&J is a Top 10 band for me.
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Luke, I assume you've heard the first Flotsam album? Jason wrote most of it.
I've probably only heard it once or twice. I've got a playlist loaded up with a shit ton of classic thrash/death metal albums, which has all the Flotsam and Jetsam albums on it. I've yet to hear one that's really blown me away yet though.
Is this a spotify playlist? F&J is a Top 10 band for me.
Yea, a Spotify playlist. It's here if you're interested...
https://spotify.link/i0trkVkZTDb (https://spotify.link/i0trkVkZTDb)
If you sort the playlist by album, the first album is by Maggot Twat :lol you can blame Glasser for that.
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Oh good. I was hoping Maggot Twat would be in there! :neverusethis:
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Oh good. I was hoping Maggot Twat would be in there! :neverusethis:
Told you it was the classics :rollin
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72 Seasons is still getting better with each listen. :hefdaddy
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72 Seasons is still getting better with each listen. :hefdaddy
To add to that. I've gone from Inamorata being my favorite to Shadows back to Inamorata and now the title track is my favorite.
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72 Seasons is still getting better with each listen. :hefdaddy
Meanwhile I still can't sit through a full listen.
I don't think it's bad by any means. The songs are just too similar in style and they ALL drag on. It's a hard listen for me and sadly seeing some of these songs live didn't elevate them for me. Just listening to a song or two by themselves benefits the listening experience a lot for me.
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bump.
for those who like behind the scenes stuff, this fan shot VIP behind the scenes video from St.Louis is pretty cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8HbVOFRiqQ
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72 Seasons is still getting better with each listen. :hefdaddy
Meanwhile I still can't sit through a full listen.
I don't think it's bad by any means. The songs are just too similar in style and they ALL drag on. It's a hard listen for me and sadly seeing some of these songs live didn't elevate them for me. Just listening to a song or two by themselves benefits the listening experience a lot for me.
Yea I totally agree. They could've cut 3 or 4 songs and I probably would've enjoyed it more. Just leave Lux Æterna, Room of Mirrors and Inamorata in, any of the rest could go for me.
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Same opinion of mine.
No song is downright bad. All the songs lumped together make it hard to sit through the entire album. Cut two songs, shorten a couple, and replace a mid-tempo with a ballad and you have already a way more enjoyable album.
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Also, it seems I'll get a chance to see Metallica, late may 2024 in Milan :metal
Looks like the European 2024 dates are not the double nights format, so one shot and that's it.
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I mean, I know it's the 'in' thing to do....but I watched a handful of vids that were from the two shows they recently performed in St. Louis.....and....there's just no freaking way I'd pay that money to go listen to a band who's drummer is that bad. Their songs are unlistenable Lars is so bad. It's cringy and brutal and the fact they're charging premium $$$ for these shows is silly. He can't play.....hasn't been able to for quite some time and it's just getting worse and worse.
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Same here man. I cannot believe how many people have forked over massive amounts of money to subject themselves to modern day Metallica. I don't get it.
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I mean, I know it's the 'in' thing to do....but I watched a handful of vids that were from the two shows they recently performed in St. Louis.....and....there's just no freaking way I'd pay that money to go listen to a band who's drummer is that bad. Their songs are unlistenable Lars is so bad. It's cringy and brutal and the fact they're charging premium $$$ for these shows is silly. He can't play.....hasn't been able to for quite some time and it's just getting worse and worse.
I haven't watched any recent Metallica vids but I've never had an issue with Lars' loose style. Or is there something else going on with him now?
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It never ceases to amaze and confound me how differently we all connect with music. 72 Seasons is an album I am still spinning weekly. Love it beginning to end. Probably will be my AotY.
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I mean, I know it's the 'in' thing to do....but I watched a handful of vids that were from the two shows they recently performed in St. Louis.....and....there's just no freaking way I'd pay that money to go listen to a band who's drummer is that bad. Their songs are unlistenable Lars is so bad. It's cringy and brutal and the fact they're charging premium $$$ for these shows is silly. He can't play.....hasn't been able to for quite some time and it's just getting worse and worse.
I haven't watched any recent Metallica vids but I've never had an issue with Lars' loose style. Or is there something else going on with him now?
I've watched a few things and wasn't bothered by him any more than ever. He's never been the cleanest drummer.
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I mean, I know it's the 'in' thing to do....but I watched a handful of vids that were from the two shows they recently performed in St. Louis.....and....there's just no freaking way I'd pay that money to go listen to a band who's drummer is that bad. Their songs are unlistenable Lars is so bad. It's cringy and brutal and the fact they're charging premium $$$ for these shows is silly. He can't play.....hasn't been able to for quite some time and it's just getting worse and worse.
I haven't watched any recent Metallica vids but I've never had an issue with Lars' loose style. Or is there something else going on with him now?
I've watched a few things and wasn't bothered by him any more than ever. He's never been the cleanest drummer.
he's not a great live drummer. I don't recall the Metlife shows standing out in being particularly bad. If anything, Kirk actually seems to be the one messing up more lately wtih his bad starts to some songs that seems to be getting more and more consistent.
As for the shows themselves, I wouldn't call them premium $$$. I think you can look up what I paid here, I kind of forget the exact number, but it was VERY fair value for two concerts plus the 4 different openers. I thought the value was great. I can't recall a single person leaving those two concerts unhappy including my gf's father who was amazed by the show even though he only knew like one song.
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I mean, I know it's the 'in' thing to do....but I watched a handful of vids that were from the two shows they recently performed in St. Louis.....and....there's just no freaking way I'd pay that money to go listen to a band who's drummer is that bad. Their songs are unlistenable Lars is so bad. It's cringy and brutal and the fact they're charging premium $$$ for these shows is silly. He can't play.....hasn't been able to for quite some time and it's just getting worse and worse.
I haven't watched any recent Metallica vids but I've never had an issue with Lars' loose style. Or is there something else going on with him now?
I've watched a few things and wasn't bothered by him any more than ever. He's never been the cleanest drummer.
he's not a great live drummer. I don't recall the Metlife shows standing out in being particularly bad. If anything, Kirk actually seems to be the one messing up more lately wtih his bad starts to some songs that seems to be getting more and more consistent.
As for the shows themselves, I wouldn't call them premium $$$. I think you can look up what I paid here, I kind of forget the exact number, but it was VERY fair value for two concerts plus the 4 different openers. I thought the value was great. I can't recall a single person leaving those two concerts unhappy including my gf's father who was amazed by the show even though he only knew like one song.
The bolded is what's important and I can see that folks are enjoying themselves immensely at the shows. So, more power to them. I just personally wouldn't spend any money to watch them....as I said...it's cringeworthy listening to him play.
I haven't watched any recent Metallica vids but I've never had an issue with Lars' loose style. Or is there something else going on with him now?
Loose style is a very kind assessment of the way he plays. He struggles to stay in or find any kind of 'time'. It has to drive those guys nuts....or I bet they just have his mix cut completely out of their ears in order to just stay on their own time.
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I mean, I know it's the 'in' thing to do....but I watched a handful of vids that were from the two shows they recently performed in St. Louis.....and....there's just no freaking way I'd pay that money to go listen to a band who's drummer is that bad. Their songs are unlistenable Lars is so bad. It's cringy and brutal and the fact they're charging premium $$$ for these shows is silly. He can't play.....hasn't been able to for quite some time and it's just getting worse and worse.
I haven't watched any recent Metallica vids but I've never had an issue with Lars' loose style. Or is there something else going on with him now?
I've watched a few things and wasn't bothered by him any more than ever. He's never been the cleanest drummer.
he's not a great live drummer. I don't recall the Metlife shows standing out in being particularly bad. If anything, Kirk actually seems to be the one messing up more lately wtih his bad starts to some songs that seems to be getting more and more consistent.
As for the shows themselves, I wouldn't call them premium $$$. I think you can look up what I paid here, I kind of forget the exact number, but it was VERY fair value for two concerts plus the 4 different openers. I thought the value was great. I can't recall a single person leaving those two concerts unhappy including my gf's father who was amazed by the show even though he only knew like one song.
I agree with this. I am probably going to get tickets to next year's Minneapolis shows for like $140 for both nights. Upper deck of course, but that's not bad at all. There are some premium packages that are very pricey, but they're not charging a ton for every ticket.
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Loose style is a very kind assessment of the way he plays. He struggles to stay in or find any kind of 'time'. It has to drive those guys nuts....or I bet they just have his mix cut completely out of their ears in order to just stay on their own time.
There is a quote out there from a fellow musician that was invited to watch a Metallica show from the soundboard. The sound guy offered him a listen to James' in-ear monitors. The only thing in James' own monitors was....himself. The musician wrote that James is literally the Metallica engine, keeping the songs on time and on track, which is amazing because it's usually the drummer doing that. But James is so precise and maybe hearing the other guys can throw him off.
So I have to believe that Lars just does his thing while James does the actual driving during the show. It works for them - Lars doesn't have to compete with any other drummers, he just has to be the best drummer for Metallica. I think his songwriting skills and business prowess have proved that over the years, even if he is just an average drummer.
I do love the videos of Metallica with Joey Jordison and Dave Lombardo from 2004 though, it's amazing to hear the band with so much power and precision behind the kit.
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Loose style is a very kind assessment of the way he plays. He struggles to stay in or find any kind of 'time'. It has to drive those guys nuts....or I bet they just have his mix cut completely out of their ears in order to just stay on their own time.
There is a quote out there from a fellow musician that was invited to watch a Metallica show from the soundboard. The sound guy offered him a listen to James' in-ear monitors. The only thing in James' own monitors was....himself. The musician wrote that James is literally the Metallica engine, keeping the songs on time and on track, which is amazing because it's usually the drummer doing that. But James is so precise and maybe hearing the other guys can throw him off.
So I have to believe that Lars just does his thing while James does the actual driving during the show. It works for them - Lars doesn't have to compete with any other drummers, he just has to be the best drummer for Metallica. I think his songwriting skills and business prowess have proved that over the years, even if he is just an average drummer.
I do love the videos of Metallica with Joey Jordison and Dave Lombardo from 2004 though, it's amazing to hear the band with so much power and precision behind the kit.
I don't have any problem believing that James has better rhythm than Lars.
With most bands, the other instruments keep up with the drums. In Metallica, the drums keep up with James.
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Anyone else totally oblivious to the existence of The Maxwell Tapes? They are a collection of instrumental demos featuring Cliff Burton and some buddies of his...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pj45K63bPRs (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pj45K63bPRs)
Not sure how I've been a fan this long and never heard of them.
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Looks like Metallica ended up performing a cover that's familiar to us DT fans:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-shares-pro-shot-video-of-cover-of-elton-johns-funeral-for-a-friend-love-lies-bleeding
What's your take on it? I like that they made the song more their own than DT did, but it's a shame that they performed such a truncated form of FFaF. Thoughts?
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I love it, and I've never really been into DT's cover of it (or the original). Metallica really rocking it up and making it sound just like a song of their own does it for me.
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Liked it. Well up for another covers EP. They're an incredible covers band.
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I dig that. James proves yet again he's the coolest guy in rock.
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If I had been there, unless Hetfield announced what they were doing, I wouldn't have known what it was until about a minute in (and even then, I might not have been able to place it until the vocals started) (although I guess this was an Elton John tribute thing, so....).
I'm not familiar with the original, so I can only compare it to the DT version, and this fell well short. The DT version was done in the days when JP had his best guitar tones, and it really shined through, and JLB was fantastic.
As a side note, I think this might be the first time I've ever seen Robert Trujillo with his hair down and not dressed like a Venice Beach skateboarder (probably like my co-workers when I put on a suit once a year or so).
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The guy right behind Elton looks like he'd rather just kill himself.
Really great cover. YEAH!!!!
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Liked it. Well up for another covers EP. They're an incredible covers band.
Really cool!! Metallica is really good on making covers, because (almost) all of them end like different versions of the songs, with the very own Metallica's stamp on them.
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Once again, Metallica shows why they're the best with covers. They don't play 100% true to the original. However, they don't bastardize the song to the point you can't recognize it. I thought they did a great job. I was most curious to hear James pull off the vocals. Mission accomplished. :metal