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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Enigmachine on October 14, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
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What do you think of the song? I'm aware that not many people are fond of the 'Day after day' section, but I don't really know the general view on the entire thing. Personally, I think that it is a great song that could've been amazing had about five minutes been cut as the last eight minutes after the 'Beautiful Agony' section can get tiring as there is not a ton of dynamics in that half of the song. However, sometimes I just ignore the faults and end up loving it the whole way through, which is how I feel about BCaSL in general.
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I just think that apart form that section - it just goes on WAY too long.
It doesn't need to be 16 minutes.
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I like it.
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This and The Count of Tuscany are the best things about the BC&SL album.
It could have been so much better with some editing, like the ending that drags so fucken' much.
Oh, and day after day everyone survived thank god ANGRY ROAAAAR BECAUSE I'M GLAD EVERYONE'S OK is an unnecessary section. I remember that the first time I listened to that I actually chuckled a bit, and definitely one of the things I don't miss from Portnoy.
Everything else is superb; I love the riffs, I love the vocal delivery, I love the quiet interlude, etc.
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Fantastic song. It doesn't make my top 10, but it is close. You criticism of the "day after day" section from me either. That section is great, other than the "roar." My only minor criticisms would be (1) the "roar" goes just a bit too far and seems out of place, (2) the instrumental section feels just a bit too long and could be shaved down maybe :30 - :45, and (3) the blast beat is just a hair off. If not for those things, it probably would be a top 10 song for me.
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The first part of the song sounds too Metallica-inspired for me.
The "Beautiful Agony" section is fantastic, far and away the best part of the song.
The instrumental section following that is OK, I guess, but nothing special, and too long.
When the vocals come back with the rougher vocals by MP, that is kind of laughable and misplaced. Just doesn't work for me at all.
And then it drags on forever into the bitter end. On the way there, we have the MP mid-life crisis blastbeats to contend with, that are completely unnecessary.
So overall, I don't care for it. With a little editing and self-control, it could have been quite a bit better.
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This song and TCoT are the two reasons I bought BC&SL. I think this is one of their best songs and I don't feel like any section drags or that anything is out of place like a lot of people do. My one criticism of the song is that the solos from both JR and JP are some of their weakest. Considering that this album has te keyboard solo from A Rite of Passage and the guitar solos from The Shattered Fortress and The Best of Times are from the same album, it makes the solos in A Nightmare to Remember sound that much worse. Other than that, it's a truly amazing song.
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The first part of the song sounds too Metallica-inspired for me.
The "Beautiful Agony" section is fantastic, far and away the best part of the song.
The instrumental section following that is OK, I guess, but nothing special, and too long.
When the vocals come back with the rougher vocals by MP, that is kind of laughable and misplaced. Just doesn't work for me at all.
And then it drags on forever into the bitter end. On the way there, we have the MP mid-life crisis blastbeats to contend with, that are completely unnecessary.
So overall, I don't care for it. With a little editing and self-control, it could have been quite a bit better.
Not much to add after this dead-on post.
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Besides the MP cartoonish vocal part I am a big fan of this song! Its a great song to crank up while driving over the old and decrepit Tappen Zee Bridge!
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I just think that apart form that section - it just goes on WAY too long.
It doesn't need to be 16 minutes.
I actually once made an edit of it that was about 5 minutes shorter that seemed much less bloated, although I deleted it as I felt that it just felt weird to miss out parts of the song. I cut out unneccesary repeats of riffs and of course, I cut out the infamous MP vocal part. It seems like with their new compositional direction, they won't be making any more songs like this where DT expands a song's length by throwing a ton of ideas onto it whether they are neccecary or not.
I think that approach worked for songs such as 'The Glass Prison' and 'Beyond This Life', but I think the problem with this is that by the time the solos end, it feels like it's time to get around to the chorus again and end it as pretty much everything that could be said musically and lyrically has been said and then it goes on for another 6 minutes. With TGP and BTL though, when the main instrumental sections finish, they end it within the next minute or two which feels like a more appropriate place to end it.
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My biggest complaint with this song is the solo section, but NOT because it's too long. I just think the solos are not that good. Otherwise, it's a great song. And BC&SL is my 2nd favorite Dream Theater album, but that's another topic.
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I'm completely and totally on board with this song for the first half. The intro is killer, the verse rocks, the chorus is nice, and "Beautiful Agony" is exactly as good as people say it is... but directly after "Beautiful Agony" ends (what is that, 9 minutes in?) everything just falls off immediately. The solo section is long and boring, MP's verse sounds absurd, the instrumental at the end remains uninteresting, and everything is capped off by (as Hef so elegantly put it) some "mid-life crisis" blast beats. So it's not awfully high in my top 50 in spite of the fact that the first half has some of my favorite music on BCSL. Honestly I think it's a shame because some more restraint and editing would have improved things immensely.
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A fantastic song in my book.
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I like this song, but man, if the second half was as great as the first half, it could have been one of their best songs ever. The solo section isn't necessarily bad, and I am still fairly ambivalent towards the "day after day' section (don't love it or hate it), but the song just kind of meanders on too long. Overall, I like the song, and I still crank it up every once in a while, but it's high on my list of "DT songs that could have been way more awesome with some editing." In fact, it is probably Exhibit A for when having the "DT needs an outside producer" discussion.
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It's OK.
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As others have said, the first half is excellent. The beginning to the end of JP's first post-Beautiful Agony solo is nearly perfect. Then, we have a few weak solos, Mike's vocal section, some interesting ideas that go on for too long, the final chorus, and an outro that also goes on for too long. Mike's section would have worked if DT had gotten someone who can actually growl to perform a guest verse. Imagine that part with Deliverance-era Mikael Akerfeldt. :metal What could have been awesome is now laughable.
If the second half was better, ANTR would almost certainly be top 20 material. The second half brings it down to the bottom 5. I think that this says more about DT than the song; even their weakest material is still pretty damn good.
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I like it.
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I don't listen to this song that often anymore, but I like it. It's not bad, but not spectacular either. It falls somewhere in between. My main gripe is that it needlessly panders in parts for too long and could definitely benefit from some trimming. I like the Beautiful Agony section a lot--in fact, that section is what really got me on board with BC&SL in the first place. That particular section doesn't overstay its welcome either.
I'd have to sing with the choir that it really starts to dip in the second half. MP's backing vocals start to become, for lack of a better word, ridiculous. The tone contrasts so badly with the lyrics, it's almost laughable to me. It doesn't even contrast in a way that's clever or engaging--it's just silly.
On the whole, it's a good song though, just some glaring flaws about it.
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If Mikael Akerfeldt had done vocals for "day afeter day..." I would like it, but portnoy is not a the best singer and a worst growler. I don't know what was going on in his mind thinking that was a good idea.
As some of you pointed out, the song drags after the beautiful agony part.
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I'm completely and totally on board with this song for the first half. The intro is killer, the verse rocks, the chorus is nice, and "Beautiful Agony" is exactly as good as people say it is... but directly after "Beautiful Agony" ends (what is that, 9 minutes in?) everything just falls off immediately.
Agreed. Still, it's my favorite song from BCSL (mostly due to the Beautiful Agony section).
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Count me in the group that feels the first half of the song is great and the second half is not so great. There really are some tremendous ideas in the song though, the whole thing just kinda overstays its welcome.
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The tone contrasts so badly with the lyrics...
No it doesn't.
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If Mikael Akerfeldt had done vocals for "day afeter day..." I would like it, but portnoy is not a the best singer and a worst growler. I don't know what was going on in his mind thinking that was a good idea.
As some of you pointed out, the song drags after the beautiful agony part.
Maybe I misunderstand some of these posts but nothing that MP does in this song counts as growling. But whatever you may call it, I'm also of the opinion that it's by far the worst part of the song.
But everything else I absolutely love! If there's just about 20 seconds of a 16 minute song that I don't find amazing, then it must be an amazing song, right? :metal
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I really like it. I agree with most that it gets worse after the Beautiful Agony section, but I dont think it gets bad, just loses the greatness that is the first half. I dont mind the MP vocals, they seem fine to me.
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The tone contrasts so badly with the lyrics...
No it doesn't.
"It's a miracle he lived
It's a blessing no one died
By the Grace of God above
Everyone survived"
Lyrically, the rest of the song is quite shotty, but nothing offensive. And neither is this part really, but to me, it doesn't warrant the aggression that the instrumentation is putting forth. It'd be much better suited to something like the serene atmosphere that the Beautiful Agony section puts on.
Honestly, I could look past that if it weren't for MP. He's not a bad singer by any means, but he doesn't pull off these deep, guttural vocals very well IMO. I'm with Xenon. Had someone like Mikael done it, I wouldn't mind it nearly as much.
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I love the song. Listening to it now for the first time in awhile.
I really like James's tone in the verses of the first section. Very edgy and gruff.
I love the "Torn up and broken, frightened and dazed" part. I guess that would be considered a pre-chorus? Or possibly a Chorus "B', if the "Life was so simple then" is the Chorus "A".
The one part I don't really care for is the verses of the mellow section ("Lying on the table", etc.) But the "beautiful agony" and "in peaceful sedation" chorus parts are awesome.
I agree with a lot of people here who say that the song drags on a bit too long.
I also agree that Portnoy's vocal section is rather silly. Any lyrical section meant to be dark and sound demonic ending with "everyone survived" is just...a bit ironic.
Great song though. Would probably be in my top 35 or so.
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If Mikael Akerfeldt had done vocals for "day afeter day..." I would like it, but portnoy is not a the best singer and a worst growler. I don't know what was going on in his mind thinking that was a good idea.
He thinks he pulls it off, that's whats going on in his mind. That and the fact no one in the band wants to say, "ummm...no that doesn't work."
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The first part of the song sounds too Metallica-inspired for me.
The "Beautiful Agony" section is fantastic, far and away the best part of the song.
The instrumental section following that is OK, I guess, but nothing special, and too long.
When the vocals come back with the rougher vocals by MP, that is kind of laughable and misplaced. Just doesn't work for me at all.
And then it drags on forever into the bitter end. On the way there, we have the MP mid-life crisis blastbeats to contend with, that are completely unnecessary.
So overall, I don't care for it. With a little editing and self-control, it could have been quite a bit better.
Not much to add after this dead-on post.
Yeah I can go with most of this too.
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I also agree that Portnoy's vocal section is rather silly. Any lyrical section meant to be dark and sound demonic ending with "everyone survived" is just...a bit ironic.
That's pretty funny! I never thought of it that way. :lol
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Everything about it is great. Except the "day after day" section. I personally think the length is perfect. Very progressive, heavy, intense, emotional. The "meandering" of the music, as some call it, actually flows very well to me and it makes a kind of journey as you make it through the monster of a song.
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Any lyrical section meant to be dark and sound demonic ending with "everyone survived" is just...a bit ironic.
Not when taken in the context of the rest of the lyrics it isn't.
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Any lyrical section meant to be dark and sound demonic ending with "everyone survived" is just...a bit ironic.
Not when taken in the context of the rest of the lyrics it isn't.
In 100 more posts will your post count say Rush?
And on topic:
I think I finally made an edit of this song worth liking.
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It's a pretty good song, but MP's part is just awful.
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I'm sure I would have been on board with this song if JLB would have sang a soaring version of the "day after day" part instead of MP. The fact that I end up chuckling, every time, when the roar kicks in ruins the whole experience for me. Thankfully I don't know enough about blast beats to criticise the drumming so I have no problem there.
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I also agree that Portnoy's vocal section is rather silly. Any lyrical section meant to be dark and sound demonic ending with "everyone survived" is just...a bit ironic.
That's pretty funny! I never thought of it that way. :lol
Really? Apart from the awful delivery by MP, that was the other death knell of that section. Kinda reminds me of that "Happy Death Metal" video on Youtube.
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If Mikael Akerfeldt had done vocals for "day afeter day..." I would like it, but portnoy is not a the best singer and a worst growler. I don't know what was going on in his mind thinking that was a good idea.
As some of you pointed out, the song drags after the beautiful agony part.
nothing that MP does in this song counts as growling.
Exactly.
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Why do people get all tangled up on semantics. When it gets to Mike section the song drags. Before that it is a damn good song. Most agree with that.
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What if the song ended with the solos, unison and normal ending fade out? Makes it 11 minutes and 5 seconds.
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While the criticism of MP's contributions may be warranted, its probably the last time DT ever tried something 'new' on an album. Sure it may have fallen flat for a lot of people, but I'd rather hear DT take risks like that than rest on their laurels - which they're certainly guilty of on the last two albums, imo.
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While the criticism of MP's contributions may be warranted, its probably the last time DT ever tried something 'new' on an album. Sure it may have fallen flat for a lot of people, but I'd rather hear DT take risks like that than rest on their laurels - which they're certainly guilty of on the last two albums, imo.
I'd rather them play it a bit safe than try and fail at something new, ruining a song in the process.
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While the criticism of MP's contributions may be warranted, its probably the last time DT ever tried something 'new' on an album. Sure it may have fallen flat for a lot of people, but I'd rather hear DT take risks like that than rest on their laurels - which they're certainly guilty of on the last two albums, imo.
I'd rather them play it a bit safe than try and fail at something new, ruining a song in the process.
Well by god count your lucky stars cos playing it safe is what they do best.
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While the criticism of MP's contributions may be warranted, its probably the last time DT ever tried something 'new' on an album. Sure it may have fallen flat for a lot of people, but I'd rather hear DT take risks like that than rest on their laurels - which they're certainly guilty of on the last two albums, imo.
I'd rather them play it a bit safe than try and fail at something new, ruining a song in the process.
Well by god count your lucky stars cos playing it safe is what they do best.
As long they don't map out older songs of theirs to make new ones I'm good.
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While the criticism of MP's contributions may be warranted, its probably the last time DT ever tried something 'new' on an album. Sure it may have fallen flat for a lot of people, but I'd rather hear DT take risks like that than rest on their laurels - which they're certainly guilty of on the last two albums, imo.
I'd rather them play it a bit safe than try and fail at something new, ruining a song in the process.
Well by god count your lucky stars cos playing it safe is what they do best.
As long they don't map out older songs of theirs to make new ones I'm good.
I can't tell if this is a reference to the sampling thread or the Thiago Campos thing but either way I lol'd.
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While the criticism of MP's contributions may be warranted, its probably the last time DT ever tried something 'new' on an album. Sure it may have fallen flat for a lot of people, but I'd rather hear DT take risks like that than rest on their laurels - which they're certainly guilty of on the last two albums, imo.
I'd rather them play it a bit safe than try and fail at something new, ruining a song in the process.
Well by god count your lucky stars cos playing it safe is what they do best.
As long they don't map out older songs of theirs to make new ones I'm good.
I can't tell if this is a reference to the sampling thread or the Thiago Campos thing but either way I lol'd.
Thiago of course, but he wasn't wrong... Mostly.
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Great song, and the second half doesn't drag it down imo. My only complaints with the song are that the lyrics in the second half of the growl section don't fit the delivery, and that MP held back on doing full on growls.
What I've always loved about this song is how well JR fits the heaviness, adding something unique to the song with the theramin and creepy halloween type sounds. It gives it an awesome mood. I love what he does with the middle section too, with the Rhodes kind of sound.
And I love the vocals too. JLB is sounding great, and the harmonies are among my favourite from DT, both in the heavy sections and the soft section.
But let's not forget about JP! I like how he blends the bluesy rock leads over that awesome metal riffing.
I'd probably give it an 8.5/10.
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While the criticism of MP's contributions may be warranted, its probably the last time DT ever tried something 'new' on an album. Sure it may have fallen flat for a lot of people, but I'd rather hear DT take risks like that than rest on their laurels - which they're certainly guilty of on the last two albums, imo.
I'd rather them play it a bit safe than try and fail at something new, ruining a song in the process.
Well by god count your lucky stars cos playing it safe is what they do best.
This notion of DT playing safe in the last two albums is really overblown. It lacks context. In the context of DT having a run of 5 albums in a heavy and very metal direction, releasing ADTOE that reverses the trend towards a heavy sound was not a safe choice at all. It was a gamble that the fanbase that they developed during the heavy riff-driven era would accept a turn towards a less heavy more melodic musical direction.
DT12 is also not safe in the context that DT relies heavily on instrumental virtuosity to carry their songs. We are so used to them doing long songs filled with instrumentals, like ANTR. Releasing an album full of songs that are to the point and cuts down on excess instrumentals is NOT safe in this context.
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While the criticism of MP's contributions may be warranted, its probably the last time DT ever tried something 'new' on an album. Sure it may have fallen flat for a lot of people, but I'd rather hear DT take risks like that than rest on their laurels - which they're certainly guilty of on the last two albums, imo.
I apreciate something new, but you gotta do it well. If you gonna do it poorly like that, don't do it.
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Love it from start to finish.
One of DT best songs.
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One of DT's worst songs. The lyrics are far too literal, the subject isn't interesting, and the riffs are boring.
Strangely, I think one of the overblown criticisms is MP's vocals. If you were to like the rest of the song, I don't see how this could seem out of place. I still don't like the lyrics during that part and I think just letting James do the different vocals they originally planned on might have sounded cooler but this is far from their biggest problem.
I do have to admit the beautiful agony part is kind of cool.
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What's wrong with being literal? It's telling a story and I'm fine with that. It's much better than DARK MASTER!!!!!!!
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I fell in love with this song watching the drummer auditions and I thoroughly enjoy it all the way through every time I listen to it. For a while, I listened to it every night while drifting into sleep, as I mentioned in my very first post here on DTF.
The "Day after day" section gets a big thumbs up from me, it successfully pushes the energy levels over the top in an already immensely energetic song. Props to Mike for trying something new with the blast beats as well, too bad he didn't follow it up properly and opted not to do it in the live renditions. I only wish Jordan's Rhodes in the middle of the song were mixed louder.
I hope it will get an official release one day, it would be interesting to hear it with the alternate vocal melodies. (If anyone missed this, check it out, really neato: https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2352022.aspx).
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I fell in love with this song watching the drummer auditions and I thoroughly enjoy it all the way through every time I listen to it. For a while, I listened to it every night while drifting into sleep, as I mentioned in my very first post here on DTF.
The "Day after day" section gets a big thumbs up from me, it successfully pushes the energy levels over the top in an already immensely energetic song. Props to Mike for trying something new with the blast beats as well, too bad he didn't follow it up properly and opted not to do it in the live renditions. I only wish Jordan's Rhodes in the middle of the song were mixed louder.
I hope it will get an official release one day, it would be interesting to hear it with the alternate vocal melodies. (If anyone missed this, check it out, really neato: https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2352022.aspx).
Yeah big thumbs up to Portnoy for trying something new! :heart
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While the criticism of MP's contributions may be warranted, its probably the last time DT ever tried something 'new' on an album. Sure it may have fallen flat for a lot of people, but I'd rather hear DT take risks like that than rest on their laurels - which they're certainly guilty of on the last two albums, imo.
I'd rather them play it a bit safe than try and fail at something new, ruining a song in the process.
Well by god count your lucky stars cos playing it safe is what they do best.
This notion of DT playing safe in the last two albums is really overblown. It lacks context. In the context of DT having a run of 5 albums in a heavy and very metal direction, releasing ADTOE that reverses the trend towards a heavy sound was not a safe choice at all. It was a gamble that the fanbase that they developed during the heavy riff-driven era would accept a turn towards a less heavy more melodic musical direction.
DT12 is also not safe in the context that DT relies heavily on instrumental virtuosity to carry their songs. We are so used to them doing long songs filled with instrumentals, like ANTR. Releasing an album full of songs that are to the point and cuts down on excess instrumentals is NOT safe in this context.
Going back to a formula that has proven itself to work time and time again does not constitute risk.
I would say there's probably the same amount of time spent on instrumental passages in the latest album as there is on Awake, so even that aspect could be considered a re-hash.
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If Mikael Akerfeldt had done vocals for "day afeter day..." I would like it, but portnoy is not a the best singer and a worst growler. I don't know what was going on in his mind thinking that was a good idea.
As some of you pointed out, the song drags after the beautiful agony part.
Oh man, Mikael would have made that sound amazing.
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I hope it will get an official release one day, it would be interesting to hear it with the alternate vocal melodies. (If anyone missed this, check it out, really neato: https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2352022.aspx).
Wow, awesome stuff by MP in that link! Thanks for it. Love how he posted the different takes.
After hearing the "cookie monster" take and the take with James, I'm really glad they decided to go with the toned-down approach. Hearing the other takes shed some light on everything.
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The worst song on the album for me.
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I like it a lot.
Only real downside is that it slightly overstays its welcome. The instrumental section towards the end goes on a bit.
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Now I think about it - I think the running order is pretty much worst to best for me :P
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WOOHOO RANKING TIME!
1. The Count of Tuscany
2. Wither
3. The Shattered Fortress
4. A Nightmare to Remember
5. The Best of Times
6. A Rite of Passage
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I hope it will get an official release one day, it would be interesting to hear it with the alternate vocal melodies. (If anyone missed this, check it out, really neato: https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2352022.aspx).
Wow, awesome stuff by MP in that link! Thanks for it. Love how he posted the different takes.
After hearing the "cookie monster" take and the take with James, I'm really glad they decided to go with the toned-down approach. Hearing the other takes shed some light on everything.
Haven't heard that before o_O MP sounds pretty good on that most BRUTAL take!
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You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's worst moment.
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You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's worst moment.
You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's most exaggerated and overblown criticism.
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Any lyrical section meant to be dark and sound demonic ending with "everyone survived" is just...a bit ironic.
Not when taken in the context of the rest of the lyrics it isn't.
I have no idea how you could say such a thing.
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While the criticism of MP's contributions may be warranted, its probably the last time DT ever tried something 'new' on an album. Sure it may have fallen flat for a lot of people, but I'd rather hear DT take risks like that than rest on their laurels - which they're certainly guilty of on the last two albums, imo.
Yeah, that is true, but unlike Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, the experimentation wasn't that successful.
I mean, MP's blast beats sound like JLB trying to do growls or something.
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You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's worst moment.
That is basically MP jumping the shark.
Oh man, Mikael would have made that sound amazing.
Oh God no. Puleeze.
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And another thing..on MP's Score Commentary, during the Innocence Faded outro, he talks about how this section is very Journeyish and that DT fans would never let them get away with playing a section like that again.
Now I thought that outro was universally loved, yet somehow MP thought DT would rather hear something like the Night After Night section??
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All those takes with mp singing don't do anything for me. I think even James agressive, screamy vocals could have been better.
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Any lyrical section meant to be dark and sound demonic ending with "everyone survived" is just...a bit ironic.
Not when taken in the context of the rest of the lyrics it isn't.
I have no idea how you could say such a thing.
I can say such a thing because the lyrics and tone make perfect sense, and anyone who simply focuses on the last line or two isn't paying attention to why that line is there and how its role in that section is quite different than what the line in isolation would otherwise imply.
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I can say such a think because the lyrics and tone make perfect sense, and anyone who simply focuses on the last line or two isn't paying attention to why that line is there and how its role in that section is quite different than what the line in isolation would otherwise imply.
Seriously, so much this. Sure, if you take that line alone, it sounds very positive, but when taken in the context of a child's recollection of a horrific tragedy ("No son should ever have to see his father such a mess" is pretty dark) this makes perfect sense.
I love this section, and especially live it was amazing to see. One of the highlights of that tour for me.
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I love this section, and especially live it was amazing to see.
Actually, I do too. Not a fan of the studio version, but that part was really cool live.
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It's clear that the intent of the section MP sang and the blast beats was to invoke death metal sounds, whether or not he actually growled them. Which reminds me of a conversation down in general chat about the death metal vocals on Haken's Aquarius, where someone said they wouldn't mind the death metal vocals if they were particularly good. That's the problem with ANTR: the death metal influenced sections simply aren't very good.
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Any lyrical section meant to be dark and sound demonic ending with "everyone survived" is just...a bit ironic.
Not when taken in the context of the rest of the lyrics it isn't.
I have no idea how you could say such a thing.
I can say such a thing because the lyrics and tone make perfect sense, and anyone who simply focuses on the last line or two isn't paying attention to why that line is there and how its role in that section is quite different than what the line in isolation would otherwise imply.
I'm not focusing on the last line or two. I'm talking about that entire section.
But whatever. If it works for you, it works for you. But it obviously doesn't work for a lot of people.
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And another thing..on MP's Score Commentary, during the Innocence Faded outro, he talks about how this section is very Journeyish and that DT fans would never let them get away with playing a section like that again.
Now I thought that outro was universally loved, yet somehow MP thought DT would rather hear something like the Night After Night section??
Well, MP was basically catering to the newest, youngest members of the fan base who dabbled in music with harsh vocals. Pretty blatantly a sell-out on his part.
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Love this song to bits, MP vocals and all. I wouldn't change a thing about it.
Don't get what's the big deal about that section anyway. Whether you like it or not, it's over in about 20 seconds.
Same deal for the outro - I actually think it builds up to a really satisfying climax, and the blastbeat does contribute to that.
Having said that, my only issue with the entire song is in the MP vocal section, funnily enough... but it's not the roar. It's that random "ugh" he does when the drums stop. Seriously, it sounds like something Mike did while messing around in the studio that they forgot to edit out. Still, it's so insignificant in the grand scheme things it doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the song in the slightest.
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Same deal for the outro - I actually think it builds up to a really satisfying climax, and the blastbeat does contribute to that.
It does, BUT (and I'm not trying to be overly critical) the problem I have with it is that he is a bit slow and behind the beat, so it sounds off. I like that he tried a blast beat there. I just don't like the execution of it.
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It's clear that the intent of the section MP sang and the blast beats was to invoke death metal sounds, whether or not he actually growled them. Which reminds me of a conversation down in general chat about the death metal vocals on Haken's Aquarius, where someone said they wouldn't mind the death metal vocals if they were particularly good. That's the problem with ANTR: the death metal influenced sections simply aren't very good.
It doesn't matter if those growls were good or not. When the mermaid is the one growling, it's ridiculously silly no matter what.
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And another thing..on MP's Score Commentary, during the Innocence Faded outro, he talks about how this section is very Journeyish and that DT fans would never let them get away with playing a section like that again.
Now I thought that outro was universally loved, yet somehow MP thought DT would rather hear something like the Night After Night section??
Well, MP was basically catering to the newest, youngest members of the fan base who dabbled in music with harsh vocals. Pretty blatantly a sell-out on his part.
Not in the slightest. He was bringing in an influence from his own current musical interests. You don't have to be a young or new fan to enjoy harsh vocals, and that influence about as far from selling out as you can get anyway. Given how he knew the fans would react to real growls, and how it was changed, I think he was trying to find a middle ground between evolving as a band, and maintaining DT's core sound, which is a good thing.
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And another thing..on MP's Score Commentary, during the Innocence Faded outro, he talks about how this section is very Journeyish and that DT fans would never let them get away with playing a section like that again.
Now I thought that outro was universally loved, yet somehow MP thought DT would rather hear something like the Night After Night section??
Well, MP was basically catering to the newest, youngest members of the fan base who dabbled in music with harsh vocals. Pretty blatantly a sell-out on his part.
Not in the slightest. He was bringing in an influence from his own current musical interests. You don't have to be a young or new fan to enjoy harsh vocals, and that influence about as far from selling out as you can get anyway. Given how he knew the fans would react to real growls, and how it was changed, I think he was trying to find a middle ground between evolving as a band, and maintaining DT's core sound, which is a good thing.
There are no growls or harsh vocals in that section.
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Tough guy shouting.
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And another thing..on MP's Score Commentary, during the Innocence Faded outro, he talks about how this section is very Journeyish and that DT fans would never let them get away with playing a section like that again.
Now I thought that outro was universally loved, yet somehow MP thought DT would rather hear something like the Night After Night section??
Well, MP was basically catering to the newest, youngest members of the fan base who dabbled in music with harsh vocals. Pretty blatantly a sell-out on his part.
Not in the slightest. He was bringing in an influence from his own current musical interests. You don't have to be a young or new fan to enjoy harsh vocals, and that influence about as far from selling out as you can get anyway. Given how he knew the fans would react to real growls, and how it was changed, I think he was trying to find a middle ground between evolving as a band, and maintaining DT's core sound, which is a good thing.
There are no growls or harsh vocals in that section.
I'm not sure if you're replying more to me or Dream Team, but I didn't say there were. I was replying to Dream Team's comment about trying to appeal to fans of harsh vocals (which seems unlikely to me given that the actual harsh vocals were taken out).
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I know, I just wanted to make it clear to everyone that there are no growls or harsh vocals in that section.
I actually agree with what you said. It definitely wasn't DT trying to sell out. If they were going to sell out, it wouldn't be one 30 second section of one song. And you're right, they took it out in fear of how the fans would react. it was all just MP trying to push his influences into the band, but it wasn't natural and just came out awkward IMO.
Tough guy shouting.
Pretty much. Well, it's not really shouting either. To me, it comes across as a metal parody.
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Even if James screamed that part, the vocal melodies and lyrics are just really silly, so nothing could really save that section for me.
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You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's worst moment.
You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's most exaggerated and overblown criticism.
I can agree with that. How is this really any different from The Dark Eternal Night? That is a polarizing song but not to this extent! I don't like ANTR but it isn't because of MP's vocals. It is one of the more different sections of a DT song so I can understand how some people can be put off by it...but the hardcore hate for that section? Don't get it.
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You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's worst moment.
You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's most exaggerated and overblown criticism.
I can agree with that. How is this really any different from The Dark Eternal Night? That is a polarizing song but not to this extent! I don't like ANTR but it isn't because of MP's vocals. It is one of the more different sections of a DT song so I can understand how some people can be put off by it...but the hardcore hate for that section? Don't get it.
I think it is more about how badly done is that part, not about how different is. At least that's my case.
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Has anybody brought up the awesome short solo bit by JP after the first verse? It's awesome. I've heard it countless times but it always floors me like it's the first.
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Has anybody brought up the awesome short solo bit by JP after the first verse? It's awesome. I've heard it countless times but it always floors me like it's the first.
One of my favourite JP moments ever (and that's a tough honour). So rockin'. :metal
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Yeah, it's my go-to solo whenever I'm trying to make a case as to why wah-wah pedals are awesome.
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Don't care for it at all,especially MP's growling vocal!
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Has anybody brought up the awesome short solo bit by JP after the first verse? It's awesome. I've heard it countless times but it always floors me like it's the first.
Yeah, it sorta catches you by surprise and grabs you by the balls. Great stuff.
You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's worst moment.
You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's most exaggerated and overblown criticism.
I can agree with that. How is this really any different from The Dark Eternal Night? That is a polarizing song but not to this extent! I don't like ANTR but it isn't because of MP's vocals. It is one of the more different sections of a DT song so I can understand how some people can be put off by it...but the hardcore hate for that section? Don't get it.
How is it the same?
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Yeah, it's my go-to solo whenever I'm trying to make a case as to why wah-wah pedals are awesome.
Haha totally true! That wah wah solo break is one of my favorite JP moments as well.
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You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's worst moment.
You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's most exaggerated and overblown criticism.
I can agree with that. How is this really any different from The Dark Eternal Night? That is a polarizing song but not to this extent! I don't like ANTR but it isn't because of MP's vocals. It is one of the more different sections of a DT song so I can understand how some people can be put off by it...but the hardcore hate for that section? Don't get it.
How is it the same?
Yeah, no kidding.
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Has anybody brought up the awesome short solo bit by JP after the first verse? It's awesome. I've heard it countless times but it always floors me like it's the first.
One of my favourite JP moments ever (and that's a tough honour). So rockin'. :metal
Fuck yeah, and probably one of my favorite guitar tones by him. Absolute bliss.
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You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's worst moment.
You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's most exaggerated and overblown criticism.
I can agree with that. How is this really any different from The Dark Eternal Night? That is a polarizing song but not to this extent! I don't like ANTR but it isn't because of MP's vocals. It is one of the more different sections of a DT song so I can understand how some people can be put off by it...but the hardcore hate for that section? Don't get it.
How is it the same?
Yeah, no kidding.
Heavy near growling vocals. Nothing similar about that, eh?
Seriously, the only thing that is different is they add a very distorted James LaBrie snarling over MP's vocals on TDEN. In the studio, MP is turned up as much if not more than James is.
In other words, if you added James singing/shouting the exact same lyrics with some distortion over Mike's "Day after day" part, they would be pretty damn similar.
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Has anybody brought up the awesome short solo bit by JP after the first verse? It's awesome. I've heard it countless times but it always floors me like it's the first.
One of my favourite JP moments ever (and that's a tough honour). So rockin'. :metal
Fuck yeah, and probably one of my favorite guitar tones by him. Absolute bliss.
Speaking of tone. The tone during the main solo later in the song complements the atmospere flawlessly.
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My 2nd favorite DT song. Wouldn't change a thing. A prog METAL masterpiece!
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You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's worst moment.
You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's most exaggerated and overblown criticism.
I can agree with that. How is this really any different from The Dark Eternal Night? That is a polarizing song but not to this extent! I don't like ANTR but it isn't because of MP's vocals. It is one of the more different sections of a DT song so I can understand how some people can be put off by it...but the hardcore hate for that section? Don't get it.
How is it the same?
Yeah, no kidding.
Heavy near growling vocals. Nothing similar about that, eh?
Seriously, the only thing that is different is they add a very distorted James LaBrie snarling over MP's vocals on TDEN. In the studio, MP is turned up as much if not more than James is.
In other words, if you added James singing/shouting the exact same lyrics with some distortion over Mike's "Day after day" part, they would be pretty damn similar.
You're looking at this too literally. Of course, they have the same vocalists, but the verse in TDEN, is nothing like the MP section in ANTO, they are totally different.
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Not to mention that the vocals in TDEN are actually badass and fit the fantasy lyrics of that song. They work because the lyrics are cheesy. Other than some general stylistic similarities, they are nothing alike. Jame's distorted vocals completely change the timbre of TDEN's verses.
In ANTR, "cookie monster" vocals would have actually worked. The sample MP posted sounded much better than the final song. His growls are not as good as Mikael's, but they are more than servicable. The lyrics themselves are bad, but a vocal style that does not bring attention to their poor quality would have made the section listenable.
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You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's worst moment.
You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's most exaggerated and overblown criticism.
I can agree with that. How is this really any different from The Dark Eternal Night? That is a polarizing song but not to this extent! I don't like ANTR but it isn't because of MP's vocals. It is one of the more different sections of a DT song so I can understand how some people can be put off by it...but the hardcore hate for that section? Don't get it.
How is it the same?
Yeah, no kidding.
Heavy near growling vocals. Nothing similar about that, eh?
Seriously, the only thing that is different is they add a very distorted James LaBrie snarling over MP's vocals on TDEN. In the studio, MP is turned up as much if not more than James is.
In other words, if you added James singing/shouting the exact same lyrics with some distortion over Mike's "Day after day" part, they would be pretty damn similar.
You're looking at this too literally. Of course, they have the same vocalists, but the verse in TDEN, is nothing like the MP section in ANTO, they are totally different.
This makes sense to me but most people when criticizing it only mention the cookie monster vocals. Sure its structured different but they style of vocals is very similar. So in my original comment I said, "How is this ANY different?" when I should have said "How is it THAT different?" Sure the songs and lyrics are clearly different and there are some differences in the vocal styles but for everybody complaining about the harsh or cookie monster vocals, I dont see how it is THAT far removed (except that TDEN is a kickass song and ANTR kinda sucks IMO). BTW Wolfking, I am seeing King Diamond next Wednesday!
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You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's worst moment.
You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's most exaggerated and overblown criticism.
I can agree with that. How is this really any different from The Dark Eternal Night? That is a polarizing song but not to this extent! I don't like ANTR but it isn't because of MP's vocals. It is one of the more different sections of a DT song so I can understand how some people can be put off by it...but the hardcore hate for that section? Don't get it.
How is it the same?
Yeah, no kidding.
Heavy near growling vocals. Nothing similar about that, eh?
Seriously, the only thing that is different is they add a very distorted James LaBrie snarling over MP's vocals on TDEN. In the studio, MP is turned up as much if not more than James is.
In other words, if you added James singing/shouting the exact same lyrics with some distortion over Mike's "Day after day" part, they would be pretty damn similar.
You're looking at this too literally. Of course, they have the same vocalists, but the verse in TDEN, is nothing like the MP section in ANTO, they are totally different.
This makes sense to me but most people when criticizing it only mention the cookie monster vocals. Sure its structured different but they style of vocals is very similar. So in my original comment I said, "How is this ANY different?" when I should have said "How is it THAT different?" Sure the songs and lyrics are clearly different and there are some differences in the vocal styles but for everybody complaining about the harsh or cookie monster vocals, I dont see how it is THAT far removed (except that TDEN is a kickass song and ANTR kinda sucks IMO). BTW Wolfking, I am seeing King Diamond next Wednesday!
THERE ARE NO COOKIE MONSTER VOCALS!!!!!!!!!!
(https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/69852/4100445-tumblr_n2fuh2jiji1t6ns60o4_500.gif)
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There are no growls or harsh vocals in that section.
Come on now. We can be pedantic and say that they're technically not growls, even if it's not far removed from this definition. But of course people are going to use the word almost invariably when there are so many comparative associations. But you can't say that it's not a 'harsh' vocal line. It's exactly that. It might not be a scream, growl, a grunting pig or whatever description you'd want to be specific about. But it certainly is a harsh vocal passage. Maybe not to someone who listens to Death Metal or something but I think even the average DT fan would call that harsh vocals.
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THERE ARE NO COOKIE MONSTER VOCALS!!!!!!!!!!
Except when there are. :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6msQ_y213JU#t=45
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THERE ARE NO COOKIE MONSTER VOCALS!!!!!!!!!!
Except when there are. :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6msQ_y213JU#t=45
It sounds soooooo bad.
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THERE ARE NO COOKIE MONSTER VOCALS!!!!!!!!!!
Except when there are. :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6msQ_y213JU#t=45
PRICELESS
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You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's worst moment.
You know, I'd probably go as far as saying that the MP vocal section is DT's most exaggerated and overblown criticism.
I can agree with that. How is this really any different from The Dark Eternal Night? That is a polarizing song but not to this extent! I don't like ANTR but it isn't because of MP's vocals. It is one of the more different sections of a DT song so I can understand how some people can be put off by it...but the hardcore hate for that section? Don't get it.
How is it the same?
Yeah, no kidding.
Heavy near growling vocals. Nothing similar about that, eh?
Seriously, the only thing that is different is they add a very distorted James LaBrie snarling over MP's vocals on TDEN. In the studio, MP is turned up as much if not more than James is.
In other words, if you added James singing/shouting the exact same lyrics with some distortion over Mike's "Day after day" part, they would be pretty damn similar.
You're looking at this too literally. Of course, they have the same vocalists, but the verse in TDEN, is nothing like the MP section in ANTO, they are totally different.
This makes sense to me but most people when criticizing it only mention the cookie monster vocals. Sure its structured different but they style of vocals is very similar. So in my original comment I said, "How is this ANY different?" when I should have said "How is it THAT different?" Sure the songs and lyrics are clearly different and there are some differences in the vocal styles but for everybody complaining about the harsh or cookie monster vocals, I dont see how it is THAT far removed (except that TDEN is a kickass song and ANTR kinda sucks IMO). BTW Wolfking, I am seeing King Diamond next Wednesday!
Damn you.
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I usually skipped the rest of the song after Beautiful Agony.
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I know I"m way late on this. But here's my opinion.
I love this song. It's actually one of my go-to DT songs, and it even surprises me. As with everyone else it seems, my favorite section is the Beautiful Agony chorus.
In contrast to a lot of people, I love the JP ad JR solos in the middle, especially the brain-melting JR one.
I also really like the MP vocal section. I'm not one who likes SC that much or some of MPs too-metallish leanings, but I find myself almost lip-syncing this every time, even though on the surface it's not very DT-like. It's just a fun section.
I think yeah, probably the song is a little too long, but maybe cut 2 minutes off near the end with some of the repetition, but it doesn't need more cut from it.
You know what song is way too long and repetitive with no dynamics? The Glass Prison. ANTR is a better song than TGP, in pretty much all phases.
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I never really had a problem with the songs length at all. In fact, I have never thought that it dragged on too long in any section.
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BC&SL is for me "A nightmare album to remember". :loser: :facepalm: :lol