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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Images and Scenes on October 09, 2014, 12:41:37 PM
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This may sound petty, but I was kind of bothered by how Mike Mangini acted on stage during space dye vest on the breaking the fourth wall dvd..
We've waited years for a live version of the song, and yeah, while the song doesn't require much from Mike, I don't think it was the right time or place for him to clown around and look bored.
There's plenty of time for humour on stage, but during Space Dye Vest is not one of those times.
Anyway, yeah I know I sound like a petty person, and I ususally wouldn't be bothered by such a seemingly minor thing. But man, I can't expalin it, it's just the way I feel.
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He seemed to be communicating to JM during those parts. I can see how you would form your opinion on it, but I really don't think there's anything there.
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I was actually wondering why he didn't do the two hand stick twirling thing like he usually does, in addition to the one hand back and forth thing.
I actually, believe it or not, totally noticed when I saw this live at the California shows, how perfect he acted during this song. More than just playing the part right, he was moving his hands, arms, and styx the exact right way and making the right face. I did notice it was less perfect on the DVD and I noticed him smile once just a tad outta place.
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Smiling during a song like this is outta place? Should be have sat there looking all mopey and sad like Moore probably was when he wrote the song? ???
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Agree with the OP, I even noticed that during the show itself. His "lol, I'll do a big clock pendulum thing" was rather out of place.
Then again, as many have pointed out before, DT doesn't really seem to "get" SDV, so it's not all that surprising.
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...I...just, don't...
I think he was quite funny. I have nothing else to contribute...
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While yes, we have been waiting to hear Space-Dye Vest for a while, I don't think it's that big of a deal. I mean, regardless of what the song is about, I don't think the band should get all solemn and depressing while performing it.
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Smiling during a song like this is outta place? Should be have sat there looking all mopey and sad like Moore probably was when he wrote the song? ???
Noooooo I was just saying his body language wasn't as flawless as when I saw them live. One of the smiles seemed a little out of place. I would never have started this thread but I'm just commenting to say actually I noticed this minor detail also. :lol
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For all we know, JLB clowns around when he's not singing, but because he's offstage no one can see him. MM has to sit there all the while.
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When you're on stage in front of an audience, it's pretty important to be self aware with how you're acting in front of that audience. Imagine if JLB stood on stage during an instrumental section looking bored as hell. How would that come across to an audience? Same thing with Mangini. He doesn't have to look all mopey on stage, but maybe concentrated and immersed in the music. Clowning around just makes it look like he's bored and isn't really interested in the song. On top of that it ruins the somber mood of the song. I'm sure that's not what he was trying to do and I'm sure he really likes the song, but that's still how it came off.
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Maybe he was just happy that he's playing such an amazing song live.
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So I didnt notice anything when I first watched it and I go back and look wondering what he could have possibly done annnnnndddd....
it's a mountain out of a molehill. At one point he rests his head on his hands which he has propped against his drums. He has a subtle goofy look on his face and he looks over at JM.
Thats it.
He looks like he is kinda lost in the moment and taking in his surroundings with a slightly awkward grin.
Thats all.
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Some people will look for anything to bitch about... ::)
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When you're on stage in front of an audience, it's pretty important to be self aware with how you're acting in front of that audience. Imagine if JLB stood on stage during an instrumental section looking bored as hell. How would that come across to an audience? Same thing with Mangini. He doesn't have to look all mopey on stage, but maybe concentrated and immersed in the music. Clowning around just makes it look like he's bored and isn't really interested in the song. On top of that it ruins the somber mood of the song. I'm sure that's not what he was trying to do and I'm sure he really likes the song, but that's still how it came off.
He could always ride across stage on a scooter.
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it's a mountain out of a molehill.
Maybe to you.
SDV has a very special status in the discography, for two reasons: 1) it was KM's parting song and 2) it is a song that draws its appeal from the atmosphere it creates. Maybe you don't connect with that, but for a lot of us it made this song *very* special.
So, seeing MM goof around during the song just begs the question: why play the song in the first place? Just for completion sake?
I used to say "play SDV! Play Eve!", but now I actually don't want them to play Eve, because how they perform SDV.
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If I was going to pick on MM for anything during this song, it's him trying NOT to goof around during the song.
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Well that's ironic. Part of what I love about the new DVD is Mangini on SDV. Does he look a little bored in the first part ? Maybe he does but I'm not sure how he's supposed to act in that virtually drumless part. But when they come back in for the new, updated part Mangini is dynamic and awesome. I guess we all see things differently but Mangini looks fine in the early part and fantastic in the later part to me.
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Why is that a fuggin' problem? Why could anything Mangini does bother someone?
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it's a mountain out of a molehill.
Maybe to you.
SDV has a very special status in the discography, for two reasons: 1) it was KM's parting song and 2) it is a song that draws its appeal from the atmosphere it creates. Maybe you don't connect with that, but for a lot of us it made this song *very* special.
I agree completely. I would hate for them to play that song, which I personally connect with and love, and have one of the members goofing around and making an ass out of himself and a mockery of the song.
Mangini didn't do anything close to that.
Hence: mountain....molehill
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Some people will look for anything to bitch about... ::)
OMFG CALM DOWN BABY
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When you're on stage in front of an audience, it's pretty important to be self aware with how you're acting in front of that audience. Imagine if JLB stood on stage during an instrumental section looking bored as hell. How would that come across to an audience? Same thing with Mangini. He doesn't have to look all mopey on stage, but maybe concentrated and immersed in the music. Clowning around just makes it look like he's bored and isn't really interested in the song. On top of that it ruins the somber mood of the song. I'm sure that's not what he was trying to do and I'm sure he really likes the song, but that's still how it came off.
He could always ride across stage on a scooter.
Maybe he could shoot t-shirts, out of an air cannon, to the crowd during an instrumental section.
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This is an issue?
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This is an issue?
ITS VERY SERIOUS.
DT IS SERIOUS BUSINESS.
SPACE DYE VEST IS VERY VERY VERY SERIOUS.
IT'S A SONG ABOUT A VEST FFS.
A FUCKING VEST
MANGINI SHOULD BE CRYING INTO HIS HANDS NOT SMILING.
A FUCKING VEST
Mangini was not in the band when they wrote that song so he has no VESTED interest. :neverusethis:
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(https://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee242/MojoFilter99/Stupid%20Stuff/e14807ff.jpg)
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Thanks guys.
Now, MM will never be open again.
He was just smiling and learning to pretend.
Thanks a lot.
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This is an issue?
ITS VERY SERIOUS.
DT IS SERIOUS BUSINESS.
SPACE DYE VEST IS VERY VERY VERY SERIOUS.
IT'S A SONG ABOUT A VEST FFS.
A FUCKING VEST
MANGINI SHOULD BE CRYING INTO HIS HANDS NOT SMILING.
A FUCKING VEST
Mangini was not in the band when they wrote that song so he has no VESTED interest. :neverusethis:
:rollin
This post is legendary.
(https://azizaparker.tripod.com/clothing_images/vest1.jpg)
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One more joke guys, and there truly will be Space Die Vests handed out. And a lot of blood in the shape of a heart.
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I'd rather an 'out of place smile' or whatever in a song than to encourage the the audience to sing "eat my ass and balls" as a lyric to a song. There, I said it. :P
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Ooooooh
And I'll smile and I'll learn to pretend
ooooohhh and you can eat my ass and balls.
Ooooh and I'll have no more dreams to defend.
ooooooh and you eat my ass and balls....
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Some people will look for anything to bitch about... ::)
Agreed
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Wait... this is a serious thread?
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Wait... this is a serious thread?
Little bit of both it would seem.
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:dangerwillrobinson:
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I didn't even notice what MM was doing to be honest. Or I didn't find it a big enough deal to remember it.
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Supposing that he acted strangely... I will forgive him because of what he did in the other half of the song as soon as the drums kick in :hefdaddy
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I find performance quite reverent to the mood of the song. I mean, the thoughtful pose in the second verse and crossed arms before the bridge. Wow.
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So, seeing MM goof around during the song just begs the question: why play the song in the first place? Just for completion sake?
I used to say "play SDV! Play Eve!", but now I actually don't want them to play Eve, because how they perform SDV.
I think it's sort of for completion'a sake, so that many fans who like it finally get to hear it live. Nothing wrong with that, after all, musicians don't primarily play to entertain themselves. And they did a great job and completely nailed the performance. MM getting into it in the second half is actually one of my favorite bits on the whole DVD. Not wanting them to play Eve just because MM did a pendulum motion while hitting the cymbals seems woefully out of proportion and unreasonable. It's not like they deficated all over the original version.
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what's wrong with the pendulum swing in the first half of the song?
I think the director of the DVD should not even have focused on him in that part because he was not even lighted. When I used to perform, when the spotlight is not on us, we do some of this kind of shit because we know that nobody was focusing on us. :lol We do it to relieve the tension and the "itch" of not doing anything while music is being played.
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what's wrong with the pendulum swing in the first half of the song?
I think the director of the DVD should not even have focused on him in that part because he was not even lighted. When I used to perform, when the spotlight is not on us, we do some of this kind of shit because we know that nobody was focusing on us. :lol We do it to relieve the tension and the "itch" of not doing anything while music is being played.
Couldn't agree more.
I mean, of course a musician is self-aware enough to control and express their behaviour appropriately on stage. And I don't think any of the DT members are egotistic enough to require the attention of being deliberately goofy. He's just being himself and enjoying it in his own way even when he's not playing. I find it beyond absurd that anyone would impose these sort of expectations about his demeanour. I can't deny that it might be a genuine reaction for some, but I still find it absurd. :P
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the pendulum hit also has a musical purpose. he's trying to hit the two cymbals of different notes with the right hand because he's maintaining a sort of metronome effect. he can not use his left hand because his left hand will be used to hit some cymbals and toms in his left hand side while he is doing the metronome.
now about him taking time to talk with JM, at least we got confirmation that JM actually talks, even if indirectly. :lol
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the pendulum hit also has a musical purpose. he's trying to hit the two cymbals of different notes with the right hand because he's maintaining a sort of metronome effect. he can not use his left hand because his left hand will be used to hit some cymbals and toms in his left hand side while he is doing the metronome.
Nah. Left hand isn't doing anything when he first starts doing the pendulum thing. Its just a showmanship thing, nothing more. He could just as easily play the same ride cymbal for the four measures rather than switching between the two different rides - he's doing it because he thinks it looks cool.
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the pendulum hit also has a musical purpose. he's trying to hit the two cymbals of different notes with the right hand because he's maintaining a sort of metronome effect. he can not use his left hand because his left hand will be used to hit some cymbals and toms in his left hand side while he is doing the metronome.
Nah. Left hand isn't doing anything when he first starts doing the pendulum thing. Its just a showmanship thing, nothing more. He could just as easily play the same ride cymbal for the four measures rather than switching between the two different rides - he's doing it because he thinks it looks cool.
There is showmanship there, but the two rides are different and they produce different sounds. The first four measures, his left hand indeed was not doing anything, but it does two crash hits later, while his right hand was still doing the metronome. And while you may not notice much difference, that really is just the way MM is very anal about his use of cymbals. He also does the same thing in the intro and the outro of Illumination Theory, where he he shifts to different cymbals based on pitch.
He gave a very good interview once on how he plays cymbals in songs. https://www.metalsucks.net/2011/09/29/rigged-dream-theater%E2%80%99s-mike-mangini-takes-you-through-every-piece-of-his-mega-drumkit-part-2/
"I have two ride cymbals. On my far left is a tight earth ride (a real thick, heavy thing) and on my right side it’s a Zildjian 20″ A Custom cymbal which is a more open sound. It’s a very airy sound, not so much Alex Van Halen or John Bonham openness, but it definitely has more ring to it. I’ll choose one of those ride sources based on how much tightness or openness I want for the ride cymbal. That is kind of the way I choose an open hi-hat vs. a closed hi-hat."
"Again, and to reiterate this, all the metal on my kit is a frequency based thing to match the music."
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I noticed it but didn't care.
And it's definitely a combination of musicianship and showmanship.
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I noticed it but didn't care.
Yeah... Pretty much this
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I noticed it but didn't care.
And it's definitely a combination of musicianship and showmanship.
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This may sound petty, but I was kind of bothered by how Mike Mangini acted on stage during space dye vest on the breaking the fourth wall dvd..
We've waited years for a live version of the song, and yeah, while the song doesn't require much from Mike, I don't think it was the right time or place for him to clown around and look bored.
There's plenty of time for humour on stage, but during Space Dye Vest is not one of those times.
Anyway, yeah I know I sound like a petty person, and I ususally wouldn't be bothered by such a seemingly minor thing. But man, I can't expalin it, it's just the way I feel.
Only a "Donnie Darko" fan could have been bothered by that. :yeahright :biggrin:
More seriously, watch closer, and you will see that MM is in some kind of "symbiosis" with JM. :tup
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I was more like "Why did they focus on him when he looks bored and is doing nothing?" than "I'm pissed that he's bored". I kinda don't care about it.
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I'm sorry but I really have to say this...
EVERYTHING IS NEVER EEEEENOUGH
Not only they fucking played that song after 20 years, they upgrade it with an amazing outro (in which Mangini puts his heart and his soul) and someone always finds something to complain about. Calm yo tits people.
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I find performance quite reverent to the mood of the song. I mean, the thoughtful pose in the second verse and crossed arms before the bridge. Wow.
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I didn't really notice anything in particular during SDV (but I was washing up while it was on), although the performance was so cheesy it was giggle worthy. I really wonder what KM would think of it. When I watch it again with this in mind I will probably be annoyed by it because I find Mangini irritating anyway. Interestingly though, I've grown to like his playing more since I've realised that. So I guess it is a non issue.
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I really wonder what KM would think of it.
I sincerely doubt he would care one way or the other.
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I really wonder what KM would think of it.
I sincerely doubt he would care one way or the other.
And who really care what he thinks anywho?
If I'm worrying about what KevMo thinks, I need to adjust my priorities in life.
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I really wonder what KM would think of it.
I sincerely doubt he would care one way or the other.
I'm sure the publishing royalty checks are not being returned to sender.
But it was said years ago by MP that it was such a personal song to KM, so I imagine he might have some reaction to it being played by the guys he wants nothing to do with anymore. At a record store signing I asked JP if he heard anything from KM. JP firmly said "No. no."
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I really wonder what KM would think of it.
"Oh, that's kinda cool. THey finally have the balls to play it"?
I think he'd be pretty indifferent but I also believe, if he did see the performance on DVD, that he'd have to be at least slightly proud of it. Seeing the emotional reaction from the fans, I'm sure he'd appreciate that, and certainly wouldn't have anything against it being played at this point.