DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: the_silent_man on October 03, 2014, 05:34:27 AM
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Worth checking out this site, a great place where you can rate and/or review albums.
https://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands/Dream-Theater/49/
It could use some more support from genuine DT fans though. For example, the latest DVD only has 4 votes and holds a relatively mid-range rating of 3.6/5 currently (If you click on the DVD you'll see me as "dante1991" and be able to access my profile btw).
It'd be cool if I could get some of you guys to join up and support the band, rate thier albums and such :)
Anyone use sputnik before?
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I've been on Sputikmusic to find out new bands and I'd say that it has been quite useful for that. However, there does seem to be a distinct anti-DT feeling there (or maybe more anti-MM era), especially in the comments for DT12. Do any of the following comments seem reasonable to you? (These are actual comments and they aren't the worst)
"This is on par with Lulu. I'm not even being hyperbolic or kidding. It's that shitty. At least I could laugh at Lulu"
"This is Faux Theater"
"this was really boring even by this band's standards"
"god this band is annoying"
"Definitely has its moments but where's the soul?" (That word drives me insane)
So yeah, I don't get the feeling that it's actually worth the time to be part of the community, as it seems like the kind that'll tear you apart if you have a different opinion. There are a few reasonable members, but on the whole, the community seems to have the maturity of your average YouTube troll. I get that Dream Theater aren't for everyone, but these people just throw any tact out of the window and treat the band like a joke.
Sorry if I went overboard, but I basically feel that the few positive voices will be drowned out by the negative (even if the average ratings don't look too bad).
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I tend to agree - I've looked at Sputnik when researching bands and was never impressed. It seems to be a site where amateurs write (mostly) very amateurish reviews and are then blasted and critiqued on their grammar by other members ;D The comments referred to above only cement that thought in my head.
Speaking of highly critical reviews I came across this one the other day , written by a "full time" metal reviewer who tends to write fairly balanced reviews most of the time. Well - he doesn't like Haken it seems. Jammindude will love this ;D
It was a review for the Aquarius album - he scored it zero out of five and here's what he wrote
"Sometimes I think Prog bands have become too heavy and percussive in imitation of Nevermore, and then something like this abomination comes across my desk. Haken are a UK-based Prog band, and I hesitate to even call this metal at all. I only review this because it will get promoted as metal, and so somebody needs to point out that this is in fact supremely dandified prog diddling in the vein of bands like Yes or old Genesis – except to say that would be to do a supreme disservice to Peter Gabriel and Rick Wakeman. So let's be clear: this makes The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway sound like Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk in comparison. This is so pussified that I cannot call it that without insulting every woman ever born. This is filled with pop hooks, acoustic strumming, and pop synth faux-orchestrations so candified they are embarrassing. You, the listener, will be embarrassed. I'm embarrassed just acknowledging that this album even exists. An album that is a pus-seeping offense to art" ;D ;D :rollin
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"Sometimes I think Prog bands have become too heavy and percussive in imitation of Nevermore, and then something like this abomination comes across my desk. Haken are a UK-based Prog band, and I hesitate to even call this metal at all. I only review this because it will get promoted as metal, and so somebody needs to point out that this is in fact supremely dandified prog diddling in the vein of bands like Yes or old Genesis – except to say that would be to do a supreme disservice to Peter Gabriel and Rick Wakeman. So let's be clear: this makes The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway sound like Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk in comparison. This is so pussified that I cannot call it that without insulting every woman ever born. This is filled with pop hooks, acoustic strumming, and pop synth faux-orchestrations so candified they are embarrassing. You, the listener, will be embarrassed. I'm embarrassed just acknowledging that this album even exists. An album that is a pus-seeping offense to art"
lolelitism
At first, I thought this was just an extract of the review (like a conclusion or something as it's just a paragraph), so I pasted a part into Google Search to check what the entire review was like. Of course, I found out that this was a FULL REVIEW from The Metal Crypt! :facepalm:
It reminds me of the negative reviews of Aquarius on Metal Archives. They are a lot like this, only longer. The best (or worst) part of this review is "I only review this because it will get promoted as metal, and so somebody needs to point out that this is in fact supremely dandified prog diddling". It's like he thinks he's preserving the reputation of metal with negative reviews! :lol The same guy wrote a three word, one star review for SFAM that said "Sucks. Don’t bother." and the other review was a two star review that has also been posted on Metal Archives that proved that the reviewer doesn't know what a concept album is and said that the album has no emotional intensity. Metal Crypt doesn't look like a great website for reviews and I'd say Sputnik is far better, even if it has no quality control with reviews which results in, as you said, some amateurish reviews being produced among a few well-written ones.
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"...on the whole, the community seems to have the maturity of your average YouTube troll"
Unfortunately, I do feel this way about the site a lot too, which is why I rarely post on it. But I do really enjoy rating albums and it's almost like a hobby, and it'd be great to have some more objective users on the site.
"there does seem to be a distinct anti-DT feeling there (or maybe more anti-MM era)"
I agree with the second part, but Images, Scenes and Awake are amungst the highest rated albums on the site. The last two albums are criminally underrated though (both have a lower rating than Black Clouds!) and it would be good to provide some more positive support on the site I believe.
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but Images, Scenes and Awake are amungst the highest rated albums on the site.
Which is why I said that it was more anti-MM era, but I kept the former bit because many comments not only attack the albums, but the band as a whole. I definitely agree with you that the last two albums are underrated on the site, it seems that many people want them to 'experiment' which appears to be a codeword for "change your sound completely and lose at least half of the fanbase who like the current style, so that you will cater to our musical needs". I'm saying this because one of them posted a video for LitS and basically said that they should return to this sound (with many agreeing), convinently forgetting that FII is the 2nd lowest rated DT album there and one of their worst sellers! Besides, its not like they're constantly recycling old ideas for new albums; I can tell they put effort in their new albums. If people don't like them, fine, but there's no justifying some of the comments made about the band on that website.
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Longtime sputnik user. You guys are overacting about the supposed "anti-DT bias"
I actually think the Sputnik scores are pretty good, and about equal to how I would the albums. Keep in mind that 2.5 = average, 3 = good, and 3.5 = great, so a score of 3.3 (around what DT12 and Dramatic got) is on the borderline between good and great. Not really seeing why people think the community hates DT, since they only have one album that has gotten a below average score there. What, do you expect every album gets near perfect marks? Sputnik is not a prog or metal forum, but a general music community where thousands of people vote. Sounds alright to me.
I would not go and mass vote all the albums there, either. The mods are very sensitive to fanboys and trolls trying to manipulate scores. Any attempt to do so would just result in people getting all their scores wiped, losing their account, and possibly making this site look bad. However I would encourage people here to use the site HONESTLY, not just to up its DT. It's a great site for discovery. Everyone should go check out the lists of highest votes 2014 albums right away.
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You guys are overacting about the supposed "anti-DT bias"
I wasn't talking about the scores, I was talking about the attitude of the more vocal users. I know that most people who vote there probably don't comment so I think the ratings are legit and unbiased. However, this is a case of the negative vocal minority overwhelming those who praise the album when they discuss it. I never said the site had a bias.
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DT is a very polarizing band. I would think comments on Lady Gaga are equally as bad.
Besides, ADTOE and DT12, outside of the DTF bubble, really weren't that well-received.
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I like it to look at general opinion on albums and on a band's discography, but the website can be a little biased for some things. I also fear prematurely looking at album scores and reviews can skew my first impression of things :blush But I can't help it! It's just fun to look at.
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You guys are overacting about the supposed "anti-DT bias"
I wasn't talking about the scores, I was talking about the attitude of the more vocal users. I know that most people who vote there probably don't comment so I think the ratings are legit and unbiased. However, this is a case of the negative vocal minority overwhelming those who praise the album when they discuss it. I never said the site had a bias.
Still think you are being a bit unreasonable. Yeah, Sputnik has a few rotten eggs, but obviously no one is overpowering DT with a vocal minority at Sputnik, when all DT's albums are resting comfortably in the range of 3-4 out of 5 stars. Remember, this isn't school where a 3/5 is a 60%, or fail. It's Sputnik, where 2.5 is "average" and 3 is "good".
I think perhaps you are just letting a few one-off sarcastic comments get under your skin. Remember people have been poking fun at Dream Theater since Images and Words came out. There is a certain part of the music world which just can not accept DT and that's OK.
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Fair enough, it may not be as bad as I think then.
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DT is a very polarizing band. I would think comments on Lady Gaga are equally as bad.
Besides, ADTOE and DT12, outside of the DTF bubble, really weren't that well-received.
Really? have you got facts to back that up or is it just from another straw poll amongst your friends? I've just looked on Amazon uk and us and the averages are pretty good. Maybe you didnt receive them very well but I dont think they have been received any better or worse than most other DT albums.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dream-Theater/dp/B00DJ80VMM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1412440787&sr=8-3&keywords=dream+theater
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dramatic-Turn-Events-Dream-Theater/dp/B005974CDU/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1412440849&sr=1-1&keywords=a+dramatic+turn+of+events
https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Theater/dp/B00DJ80VLS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1412440909&sr=8-2&keywords=dream+theater
https://www.amazon.com/Dramatic-Turn-Events-Special-Edition/dp/B005974CNA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412440929&sr=8-1&keywords=dream+theater+a+dramatic+turn+of+events
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DT is a very polarizing band. I would think comments on Lady Gaga are equally as bad.
Besides, ADTOE and DT12, outside of the DTF bubble, really weren't that well-received.
Really?
Yep, when it comes how well new DT albums are received in music forums, Rumborak is right.
Take a look here (https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/dream_theater) per example.
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I don't think the average scores on Sputnik are too bad - 4 of the albums are rated 4 or higher, and even WDADU is a 3. Sure they aren't as acclaimed as, say, Porcupine Tree (https://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands/Porcupine-Tree/328/), but DT's ratings are pretty good considering how polarizing of a band they are.
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DT is a very polarizing band. I would think comments on Lady Gaga are equally as bad.
Besides, ADTOE and DT12, outside of the DTF bubble, really weren't that well-received.
Really? have you got facts to back that up or is it just from another straw poll amongst your friends? I've just looked on Amazon uk and us and the averages are pretty good. Maybe you didnt receive them very well but I dont think they have been received any better or worse than most other DT albums.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dream-Theater/dp/B00DJ80VMM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1412440787&sr=8-3&keywords=dream+theater
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dramatic-Turn-Events-Dream-Theater/dp/B005974CDU/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1412440849&sr=1-1&keywords=a+dramatic+turn+of+events
https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Theater/dp/B00DJ80VLS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1412440909&sr=8-2&keywords=dream+theater
https://www.amazon.com/Dramatic-Turn-Events-Special-Edition/dp/B005974CNA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412440929&sr=8-1&keywords=dream+theater+a+dramatic+turn+of+events
Amazon ratings are virtually meaningless. People only go on Amazon to either give glowing reviews, or bash the product. Sites like Sputnik and RateYourMusic will be more accurate because there people go to specifically rate albums, even when they are just "meh" on them.
When you look at the RYM ranking, you get the album order IAW, SFAM, Awake, SDOIT, ToT, DT12, 8V, ADTOE, FII, BCSL, SC, WDADU. That is a very solid ranking I would say, it corresponds to what my perception of other people's rankings is. And indeed, Sputnik's ratings are very similar.
So, depending of course how you interpret my comment "not well received", but ADTOE and DT12 are solid middle-field, on the order of Octavarium.
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Which also open the can of worms that DT hasn't released a top-5 album in the second half of their career.
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Which also open the can of worms that DT hasn't released a top-5 album in the second half of their career.
ToT would probably squeeze in as my #5, but aside from that, I'd agree. Of course, an album doesn't need to be in their top 5 to be a good/great album, but realistically I don't see them writing another album at this point that comes close to my top 4 DT albums. That's as much a comment on the strength of those albums as on the current band though.
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Then again, after all their live DVDs they managed to top them all with their latest.
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I think Sputnik ratings are fairly accurate most of the times. It happens on rare occasions that I disagree, but for the most part the way albums are ranked is usually pretty close to my own.
You got to keep in mind that a lot of people voting on those websites are more harsh on music they like. Even with the bands I love the most, I have my clear favorites and clear least favorites. I think being overly positive just because you love the band can get kinda silly. Fine if you like DT12 or ADTOE, but if those albums had been over 4, they would basically have been held in the same regard as Images & Words or Scenes From a Memory, two classics that shaped the genre.
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I guess I agree with you guys on a lot of your posts. As we're talking about ratings, if you're interested, here's how I'd personally rank the albums (and rate them on sputnik):
Scenes (5/5)
Images and Words (5/5)
Awake (5/5)
Six Degrees (4.5/5)
A Dramatic Turn (4.5/5)
Train of Thought (4.5/5)
Dream Theater (4/5)
Black Clouds (4/5)
Octavarium (3.5/5)
Falling into Infinity (3.5/5)
Systematic Chaos (3/5)
When Dream.. (2.5/5)
and the live releases I've heard:
Breaking the Fourth Wall (4.5/5)
Score (4.5/5)
Live at Budokan (4.5/5)
Live at Luna Park (4.5/5)
Live Scenes (4.5/5)
Happy Holidays (4/5)
Images and Words - Live in Tokyo
Chaos in Motion (4/5)
5 Years in a Livetime (3.5/5)
Most of the live albums are steller to me.
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Ooh, rating and ranking at the same time? A DTF double-whammy!
1. SDOIT (5 stars)
2. ADTOE (5 stars)
3. I&W (5 stars)
4. BCSL (4.5 stars)
= Awake (4.5 stars)
6. FII (4.5 stars)
= DT12 (4.5 stars)
8. TOT (4 stars)
= Octavarium (4 stars)
= SC (4 stars)
11. SFAM (3.5 stars)
12. WDADU (3 stars)
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1. I&W (5)
2. SFAM (4.5)
3. SDOIT (4.5)
4. DT12 (4)
5. FII (4)
6. Awake (4)
7. ADTOE (3.5)
8. Octavarium (3)
9. TOT (3)
10. SC (3)
11. BCSL (3)
12. WDADU (2.5)
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1. SFAM (5)
2. I&W (5)
3. SDOIT (4.5)
4. Awake (4.5)
5. TOT (4)
6. DT12 (4)
7. ADTOE (3.5)
8. 8V (3.5)
9. FII (3.5)
10. SC (3)
11. BC&SL (3)
12. WDADU (2.5)
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DT is a very polarizing band. I would think comments on Lady Gaga are equally as bad.
Besides, ADTOE and DT12, outside of the DTF bubble, really weren't that well-received.
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Their past two tours are proof enough that the albums were quite well received and that the band are doing just fine.
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DT is a very polarizing band. I would think comments on Lady Gaga are equally as bad.
Besides, ADTOE and DT12, outside of the DTF bubble, really weren't that well-received.
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Their past two tours are proof enough that the albums were quite well received and that the band are doing just fine.
Have they done any better/worse than their other tours? I don't know about you, but if I like a band, I go to see them live regardless of what I think of their latest album, because they play songs from all over their career. The current tour is just as much proof that SFAM and Awake were well received.
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Yeah, only look at Rush for that effect. Their new albums are okish, but people still show up because it's fine to see Limelight and The Spirit of Radio once a year.
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Yeah, only look at Rush for that effect. Their new albums are okish, but people still show up because it's fine to see Limelight and The Spirit of Radio once a year.
I wouldn't care if I see Limelight played ever again. Come to think of it, I'd really prefer not to see/hear it ever again.
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Yeah, only look at Rush for that effect. Their new albums are okish, but people still show up because it's fine to see Limelight and The Spirit of Radio once a year.
Clockwork Angels is a great album. So is Vapor Trails.
As for Sputnikmusic, it seems to be an anything-goes type of community. Not much serious discussion, which is fine, since some websites aren't so serious. It has fans of all genres of music, so Dream Theater will not have pefect album ratings. Believe it or not, some people don't like Dream Theater.
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My personal
5 Star (Perfect):
Images and Words
Awake
4.5 Star Bunch (Near Perfect):
Six Degrees
Scenes from a Memory
4 Star (Great):
A Dramatic Turn of Events
3.5 Star (Very Good):
Falling into Infinity
3 Star (Good)
Train of Thought
Octavarium
2.5 (Average)
Black Clouds and Silver Linings
When Dream and Day Unite
DT12
2.0 (Below Average)
Systematic Chaos
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5 - Images and Words, Awake, Scenes From a Memory
4.5 - A Change of Seasons, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
4 - Black Clouds and Silver Linings, Train of Thought
3.5 - Falling Into Infinity, Octavarium, A Dramatic Turn of Events, When Dream and Day Unite, Dream Theater
3 - Systematic Chaos
Systematic Chaos would be a 2 but ITPOE is one of my favorite songs.