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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Enigmachine on September 05, 2014, 11:00:43 AM
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I made this poll because around the internet, there have been various people who think DT12 is simply a rehash of their previous few albums, while there are others who want a return to the "Awake sound" or the "FII sound". I personally think that while there are song parts that can be traced back to previous albums such as the BCaSL part in EM, the overall sound of DT12 can't really be associated with any other album by the band as it has semi-concise songs, magestic-sounding melodies (which doesn't neccesarily mean "good" melodies, it just means stuff like the vocals of 'Surrounded' and not like 'The Mirror''s verses (though both songs have great melodies)) and a lot of heaviness and while these elements could be associated with Awake, IaW and ToT, I feel that DT12 uses those elements to make something quite fresh sounding.
However I'm willing to see why those who disagree think that way. Is it just because the band are "progressive metal"? If so, I can understand, but at the same time, I've always thought that this was one of the worst genre names, because unlike others such as death metal or power metal, it doesn't just refer to a sound, it refers to an attitude to music. The problem here is that once a band stops progressing, people will begin to say that they are not "progressive" anymore, this can make a band simultaneously "progressive" and not progressive. :huh: Progressive metal is a VERY confusing name unless you can seperate the exact same term in your head into two vastly different definitions.
That aside, what do you think?
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Yes. It's one of their biggest strengths as a band. Every album has unique production.
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I am a fan. I appreciate that one of my all time favorite bands is still making records! I am fine with whatever they choose to do creatively, and I embrace it!
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Over the years, especially after ToT or so, the margin of change shrank more and more. Sure, they still have the occasional surprise on an album, but overall, yes, I think they could use a certain "itch" to do things differently.
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I like the approach they've taken. As long as the new album is good, I don't care if it is different. I just want it to sound like Dream Theater.
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Sure they do. It might not be by much, but I thought the difference between ADTOE and ST was a drastic upswing in heavy. They may not change their sound every album (to me this was especially evident in the last years with MP) but each album is different from the last.
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Kind of. They change their sound but at the same time they play it safe a lot.
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Over the years, especially after ToT, the margin of change shrank more and more. Sure, they still have the occasional surprise on an album, but overall, yes, I think they could use a certain "itch" to do things differently.
^This
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Over the years, especially after ToT or so, the margin of change shrank more and more. Sure, they still have the occasional surprise on an album, but overall, yes, I think they could use a certain "itch" to do things differently.
+1 to this and Xenon's "they play it safe a lot" comment. That's why I love it when they step out of their comfort zone with songs like BMUBMD.
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I don't think they "play it safe" as in, when thinking about different options, they choose the safe route, and eliminate, well, less safe route.
They just do what they do. That's what comes out. It just happens not to be adventurous enough for some of you.
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I think the part that surprises me is that they haven't gotten tired of it either yet. More than 20 years of doing prog metal, there's gotta be that "ugh." feeling at least occasionally for them.
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Over the years, especially after ToT or so, the margin of change shrank more and more.
This.
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They need to change things up now.
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I think the part that surprises me is that they haven't gotten tired of it either yet. More than 20 years of doing prog metal, there's gotta be that "ugh." feeling at least occasionally for them.
Most musicians do get tired of doing the same type of music, like Akerfeldt or Wilson (and many more), but there are others that stay in the same direction, like Neal Morse, the flower kings, and in this case DT. So I get they don't want to change because they are succesful with this formula. But in the end when they think out of the box they stand out. I mean, You can listen beneath the surface which is not the conventional dt ballad, or the approach they take in the bigger picture, or the orchestral and ambient part on Illumination theory and you can tell they still got it, but they play it safe a lot because they are at that point that no matter what they do, they will always be praised and criticized equally.
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I went with 'kind of'. They changed it up a lot up until Systematic Chaos really, but since then the changes are far less extreme. They still do something different every time, but it's not as unexpected as say, SFAM to Six Degrees to Train of Thought. It's a bit of a bummer, since that was one of my favorite things about the band.
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Over the years, especially after ToT or so, the margin of change shrank more and more. Sure, they still have the occasional surprise on an album, but overall, yes, I think they could use a certain "itch" to do things differently.
I went with "Not Really" and so I agree with this.
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Another vote for not really. They just do what comes natural, which is to do almost the same thing over and over--more so recently. That being said, I still enjoy that sound for the most part.
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I went with a "Kind of".
The issue is that at this point, fans demand them thinking outside the box, trying different things -- which is understandable. They aren't gonna be playing prog metal one album and then drone ambient on the next. That just isn't DT. But I think each album stands out from the last -- both stylistically and from a production standpoint. I can't name two DT albums that sound totally alike, or like they were just harking on left-over ideas from their previous record. Sure, the core of DT's music is there and that can't be denied, but excessive experimentation isn't always necessary.
I don't think they "play it safe" as in, when thinking about different options, they choose the safe route, and eliminate, well, less safe route.
They just do what they do. That's what comes out. It just happens not to be adventurous enough for some of you.
Very well put.
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I SOMETIMES like when they break out of their comfort zone with varying styles and sound. Even when they do this there still is their signature sound at its very core which makes it DT. First time I heard SDOIT I LOVED IT!!!! Still do. Loved the experimental treatment of the one disc. But the first time I heard BCSL and SC I disliked them. I still do. I never really got behind TOT either. 3 very different albums that I rarely listen to, but there is some content on each I like. (As I Am, Endless Sacrifice, Wither, Ministry of Lost souls).
I will TRY to always support their new studio albums but if any future albums resemble SC or BCSL that would be a disappointment.
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About 70 / 30 "yes" to "no" break down.
Those of us who would like them to change their sound then are a minority, but a pretty solid one.
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I think that depends on whether you see "kind of" as a qualified yes or a qualified no. Quite a few people here seem to use the category to say "yeah, they're kinda stuck in a certain sound, but I happen to like that sound".
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I read the poll wrong and put "No" as in "No, they will not change their sound" but I really meant the last option. I personally didn't find anything musically surprising on their last few albums and they seem to be just going through the motions nowadays. It's great if you really love that sound (I've since gotten tired of it and the genre in general) but it's just disappointed that you have some real world-class musicians and don't seem to be tapping their abilities at all anymore, although technicality and songwriting don't necessarily go hand in hand despite the thought that maybe the former would lead into the latter in terms of creativity.
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I put yes. They always keep their core sound which is very important. I hate when bands completely change their sound to the point where they're unrecognizable. The thing they do is incorporate different ideas with each album. No two albums sound alike yet still sound like them. I disagree with people who say that the band is now set in their ways. DT12 is different in that the songwriting is more focused. They have never had an album where they steered clear of the extended noodling. Even Illumination Theory at 22:17 doesn't have the long, technical musical sections that the band has become known for.
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What is the DT sound?
I listened to their albums in chronological order three times last week, and I was surprised that the "DT sound" is actually not the IaW and Awake sound. Some elements of the music from those albums are still heard in the later DT songs, but you can distinctly place the songs as coming from that era. I mean, insert any DT 12 song in an IaW or Awake playlist, and it would not fit.
I believe the "DT sound" that a lot of people refer to actually originated with FII, specifically two songs: Peruvian Skies and Trial of Tears. The approach of keyboard playing is different, of course, but the way they write and structure songs in general, I think, can be traced to these two songs. The way they write ballads nowadays is also more akin to the ballads in FII, especially Anna Lee, rather than ballads like Surrounded from IaW.
Not coincidentally, I believe that what people call the signature MP drum style also took a coherent shape in Trial of Tears. A lot of MP's drum fills can already be heard in Metropolis Pt. 1, but the combo of the fills, the hi-hat work, and the bass drum patterns can be heard coherently in one song in Trial of Tears. I even listened to Trial of Tears and Blind Faith back to back twice, and I smiled at hearing how similar MP's approach was in those two songs. Peruvian Skies also had the Portnoyisms (heh!), but I feel that it was just more pronounced in ToT. Of course, he solidified the style into a signature sound with Metropolis Pt. 2.
To answer the question, I believe DT does change their sound enough to stay interesting. I would be hard pressed to find an album that sounds just like another album. But I think the claim that there is a "DT sound" has merit. The "DT sound' is like combining Peruvian Skies, Trial of Tears, Anna Lee, and then a dose of The Glass Prison. :lol
With regards to DT12, I think it should not really be expected to give us something very new in terms of soundscape. I think they have gone on record that the self-titled album is meant to express their feeling that they are now a cohesive unit. They consciously decided to be more to the point with the songs, to highlight more that they can write songs as a unit, and not rely on individual display of musical skills. I remember they even made a joke once that the role of Illumination Theory in the album is actually to assure the fans that they still are the DT that you expect, in case you are wondering after hearing a good dose of concise songs that is so not like them. :lol