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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: James Mypetgiress on August 30, 2014, 04:32:18 PM
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I would just like to post this, after a recent discussion with a friend, that went somethink like this:
Me: hey, have you ever heard of this band called dream theater
"Friend": no
Me: Here, let me show you a really good song *puts on Caught In A Web*
"Friend": meh... it's nothin' special
Me: HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOTHING SPECIAL? DREAM THEATER ARE FUCKING GODS! THEY ARE THE BEST MUSICIANS ALIVE, AND YOU CALL THIS NOTHING SPECIAL, YET YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE FUCKING SEX PISTOLS AND CALL THEM "MASTERS OF MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"Friend": *I'm not saying my real name,* you're scaring me
Me: HULK SMASH
"Friend": urgh
My question is this:
Do you know anyone who finds DT bad
Do they also like shitty music which is just a bunch of peeps who can't play anything going "God save the queeeeen"
Basically, any stories about showing DT to friends/family & their reactions.
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Because DT is hard to digest and most DT fans are very passionate and get butthurt when someone shrugs them off.
Or people are just stupid.
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Let me correct this for you...
people are just stupid.
perfect!
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also, just to clarify, its not the fact he didn't like the music, more the fact that he though the stuff they played was just average. Even people who don't like prog have to admit:
JP is amazing at guitar
JLB is amazing at vocals
JM is amazing at bass
JR is amazing at 100000 different thingy-majigs
and
MM is amazing a drums.
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Most people don't and won't like DT. It's okay.
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Curses, hefdaddy stole my post.
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People are entitled to like or dislike whatever they want. I don't like artists such as Black Eyed Peas, Rihanna, and Nicki Minaj. Other people do. While it's true that musically a band like Rush or Dream Theater are much more musically advanced than a band like Maroon 5, it doesn't automatically mean that they're better bands. Taste in music is subjective and there is no definitive answer to what artists are the best. A band like Dream Theater are different than even most metal bands. They don't always use standard song structures, time signatures, scales, or anything that the average music fan is used to. While they have more accessible songs like Wither or I Walk Beside You, they also have weird songs like A Change of Seasons, Breaking All Illusions, and of course, The Dance of Eternity. To the average listener, those songs are a mess. Even die hard fans need a few listens to make sense of a song like Scarred. As fans of more musician oriented bands, we forget that not everyone is into complex music. I'm guilty of criticizing overly simple songs from time to time, but we have to remember that music is for everyone and not just for musicians.
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Yea, opinions and stu---WHY DID YOU START WITH CAUGHT IN A WEB?!
Seriously, so many better starter songs to choose from.
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Yeah, Awake in general seems like a hard album to start with.
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I should have thought this through... I have calmed down somewhat now. I was just in rage mode. I will try and stop in future, as it makes me come across as a dickish moron.
Sorry :angel:
Also I started with caught in a web because I like it, and find it to be a good well rounded song. It has lots of aspects of good dream theater, rather than just one main good aspect.
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Yeah, Awake in general seems like a hard album to start with.
I find it to be the best DT album ever. Also, I love Kevin Moore.
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It's my favorite DT album as well. The point still stands that it's generally not easily accessible, even to those who could potentially like DT. It took me several years to appreciate.
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I disagree. Awake was my first album and it worked like a charm. I'd recommend it to any metal fans wanting to get into DT. It's got some short songs to draw you in and some great heavy riffing.
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Me: HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOTHING SPECIAL? DREAM THEATER ARE FUCKING GODS! THEY ARE THE BEST MUSICIANS ALIVE, AND YOU CALL THIS NOTHING SPECIAL, YET YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE FUCKING SEX PISTOLS AND CALL THEM "MASTERS OF MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
My opinion: DT aren't musical gods (fantastic playing doesn't necessarily equal good music) and Sex Pistols did create a great punk rock album in Never Mind the Bollocks, despite being nothing in terms of playing if compared to DT.
EDIT: Both bands created great music.
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Well, it's a matter of taste isn't it? You don't appreciate Sex Pistols, he doesn't appreciate Dream Theater. Say and think what you will about SP, your opinions are valid, but so are your friend's, so you have to validate other people's point of view aswell.
Sex Pistols were actually hugely influential, and although not the first; they essentially evolved the punk genre, which even if not your cup of tea, had an impact on a lot of popular rock bands from the 70s that in turn influenced the direction of modern music in general. Their relevance can't be understated. Indirectly they could have even influenced Dream Theater in the sense that DTs influences were influenced by them. For the record, they're not my cup of tea either and I wouldn't consider it musical mastery, but I just wanted to say that people can find something they connect with in all kinds of music which is great.
I think the idea is to not be so dismissive of other people's tastes even if we don't understand in the slightest why something would appeal to someone. Because isn't that the very thing that frustrates you about your friend being dismissive of Dream Theater?
Considering the variety of musical styles in DT, if the situation ever arises again, maybe show him a different song that you believe might be more to his taste? Keep an open mind and your friend should reflect that behaviour and he might find something he appreciates in the music. Or not, but that happens and that's fine too. ;)
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Most people don't and won't like DT. It's okay.
That. Opinions. Etc. As long as you enjoy the music, who cares what anyone else thinks?
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You know, I just saved a lot of money by switching to Geico.
That's what I say.
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There's a lot of people who absolutely hate the sound of metal to begin with. Heavily distorted guitars with palm muting x intense drums is enough to make many people cringe. Add to that what many people consider to be 80's style keyboards and singing...
I personally love it more than anything, but I certainly can't blame someone for not liking DT :lol
Also like others have mentioned it can be hard to follow/remember. It's not familiar like Pop, which a lot of people want their music to be. Familiar, comfortable, can know the hook after the first listen, etc. I don't mean that as a diss to Pop, love it.
I have some friends who enjoy DT like I do. We have a blast listening to and worshipping it, and I'm so glad they feel it like I do. Nothing like a DT connection with music friends! Don't let the others bother you and just find some good friends to enjoy it with.
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Because opinions and blah blah blah.
Most people aren't gonna dig music that's just generally inaccessible or indigestible, and that's fine. It's not unfamiliar music that's setting out to become familiar for the masses. If you enjoy the music, that should be enough. I don't think everyone has to. Even then, DT is fairly tame and accessible. I have a couple of friends that are into them as well.
To be honest, it's reactions like the one in the OP that give DT fans a bad rep as not being accepting of people who aren't into DT. Being passionate about your favorite band is one thing, but then there's just being a fanboy. I do wish for the DT fanbase--not just those of us here--to avoid that.
As for starting your friend off with CIAW, it really depends on their musical background. If they come from years of listening to metal, then most songs from Awake would be fine personally. Try different songs even so and if it's still not their thing, then don't push it, and don't sweat it.
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As for starting your friend off with CIAW, it really depends on their musical background. If they come from years of listening to metal, then most songs from Awake would be fine personally. Try different songs even so and if it's still not their thing, then don't push it, and don't sweat it.
Yep. Had a friend that was a big Megadeth fan. First song I showed him was "As I Am" off of Budokan DVD. Immediately obsessed :tup
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Yeah, the time i discovered Dream Theater, i was into Megadeth and thrash in general, so, i really liked some of their fast paced moments like most of The Glass Prison, Fatal Tragedy and This Dying Soul solo section/outro and many others.
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Yeah, Awake in general seems like a hard album to start with.
I was thinking the same thing; it's definitely not where I would suggest someone to start who had never listened to the band before.
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I really hope you didn't say that seriously. You could come across as a douche.
Seriously. You can't expect everyone to like a band whose shorter songs are like 6 minutes long.
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Probably for similar reasons as to why some people don't like dark chocolate, coffee, tea, mini vans, waking up in the mornings, the color green, etc and all for a million different personal reasons. I rarely have the desire to argue with people that don't like certain things that I do. All that really matters is whether or not I like it or not. The rest of the world is irrelevant.
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I really hope you didn't say that seriously. You could come across as a douche.
Seriously. You can't expect everyone to like a band whose shorter songs are like 6 minutes long.
I said it, but not seriously. He's my best friend, he knows weather I'm joking or not. I didn't mean he should like them, as I said earlier, even if you don't like their music, Dream Theater are amazing at playing their respected instruments. This was what I was saying.
Also, he likes other progressive stuff, so the song length doesn't bother him at all :biggrin:
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Not everyone likes the same things. It's pretty normal.
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Me: HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOTHING SPECIAL? DREAM THEATER ARE FUCKING GODS! THEY ARE THE BEST MUSICIANS ALIVE, AND YOU CALL THIS NOTHING SPECIAL, YET YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE FUCKING SEX PISTOLS AND CALL THEM "MASTERS OF MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
My opinion: DT aren't musical gods (fantastic playing doesn't necessarily equal good music) and Sex Pistols did create a great punk rock album in Never Mind the Bollocks, despite being nothing in terms of playing if compared to DT.
EDIT: Both bands created great music.
Yeah, the sex pistols were great at what they did. But, what they did (musically) wasn't very good. I do have to admit though, without them, bands such as Green Day, Jilted John & Operation Ivy, all of whom I love wouldn't exist. :smiley:
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Yeah, the sex pistols were great at what they did. But, what they did (musically) doesn't appeal to me.
FTFY
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Yeah, the sex pistols were great at what they did. But, what they did (musically) doesn't appeal to me.
FTFM
FTFY
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WTF
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The main thing that annoys me is when you're in a group of people - and you mention Dream Theater -
and as one they all chorus - awesome band - shit singer.
Like it's a fact. Or they are scared of admitting they like LaBrie in case someone in their clique takes the piss
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WTF
You implied that you were telling him what music he should like.
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WTF
You implied that you were telling him what music he should like.
No he didn't.
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WTF
You implied that you were telling him what music he should like.
I did no such thing. Why would I tell him he should like the Sex Pistols? I don't even like the Sex Pistols. But that doesn't mean they aren't good, or good at what they do.
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Well I can say I hate them. I am no fan of straight up punk. Mix it with pop like The Talking Heads, Joe Jackson & Blonde.
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The main thing that annoys me is when you're in a group of people - and you mention Dream Theater -
and as one they all chorus - awesome band - shit singer.
Like it's a fact. Or they are scared of admitting they like LaBrie in case someone in their clique takes the piss
Actually, that's what every DT fan I've ever met thinks, lol
It wasn't until signing up here that I realized that there are people who really love - not just like, but love - James' singing.
James has never bothered me, but around Train of Thought his vocals really started to grate me, personally. Still love the band and couldn't imagine them with a different singer.
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Because they are
I hate them. And I love them. But don't tell anyone I like em :biggrin:
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also, just to clarify, its not the fact he didn't like the music, more the fact that he though the stuff they played was just average. Even people who don't like prog have to admit:
JP is amazing at guitar
JLB is amazing at vocals
JM is amazing at bass
JR is amazing at 100000 different thingy-majigs
and
MM is amazing a drums.
While I agree with all of your points, not everyone will.
If you go on the net, you can find plenty of hatred towards the band.
Just type in something like "Dream Theater sucks," and you'll see what I mean.
They not only attack the BAND, but tear into the members individually, saying shit like "Petrucci only plays so fast to cover his inability to play a decent solo or lead."
Now, I don't agree with any of that bullshit. I DO agree with you that they ARE some of the best musicians in the world.
But saying that anyone else HAS to agree with us is just like saying that I HAVE to like bands like Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Whitesnake, and especially Motley Crue, all of which are bands that I DESPISE, and you probably couldn't PAY me to listen to them!
On the other hand, there are bands that I like, such as AC/DC that most people on here probably can't STAND, and I'm fine with that. It's NOT going to stop ME from listening to them and liking their music.
Everyone has different opinions about different things, and when it comes to music, not everyone is going to hear-or NOT hear-what YOU hear.
As for your friend: maybe you didn't know enough about what kind of music he likes before you had him listen to "Caught in a Web." Maybe you should have picked "6:00," "Innocence Faded," "Scarred," or a song from another album, such as "New Millennium" or "Lines in the Sand" from Falling Into Infinity" or one of the songs from "Images and Words." I have to agree with the other posters who said that "Caught" was a bad choice to start with, unless you chose one of the LIVE versions.
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They not only attack the BAND, but tear into the members individually, saying shit like "Petrucci only plays so fast to cover his inability to play a decent solo or lead."
I agree that DT members overdo their playing sometimes, especially after FII, but i totally disagree that they are only virtuosos that shred for the sake of it.
Frankly, i think there are exaggerations from the two sides, the fans that think DT are musical gods and the ones that say they are just musical masturbation or whatever :rollin
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I can't stand proper punk. They always seem to have horrendously recorded albums.
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I can't stand proper punk. They always seem to have horrendously recorded albums.
Some would argue that that is the point. Punk is supposed to be cheap, and dirty. I think the idea was that it made it seem like anyone could do it. And, they can. I love the ideology of punk, that anyone can start a band, despite the fact they aren't really that musically gifted, but, I just feel that, in some cases, this is taken to the worst level possible. I.e Dwarves. (Listen to their song, astro boy, I dare you :lol)
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I can't even bear NOFX.
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I can't even bear NOFX.
Virtual high fives "OMG, we are like.... So in sync"
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Why the fuck did I do that...
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It okay to not like thing.
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In adittion, it's good for them not liking DT. A lot less suffering in their lives. :biggrin:
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Because people have a different taste. How would you like if a friend acted like you did about his favorite band? And ask yourself: why don't you like other bands that people love so much? Same answer: taste.
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I can't stand proper punk. They always seem to have horrendously recorded albums.
That's because they don't give a shit, and that's the whole kind of attitude thing that goes with the genre and part of the appeal even.
Anyway, in regards to the original posters comments; not to deliberately say something potentially controversial but I think you'll find most of us here aren't into Sex Pistols because I just get the feeling that someone that's a fan of DT is probably going to be more picky about compositional content and production, musicianship and accuracy. Not necessarily aspects that are important in punk music. Not trying to one up one band over the other or undermine an entire genre, just trying to acknowledge the differences between these bands and understand the different reasons why each one appeals to different people. My point of view is incomplete, but that's why it's a point of view. It should be obvious what side of the fence I'm on, but I think you'll find most people here (somewhat) agree with you and are on the same page regarding SP. It's just, saying stuff like "they aren't really that musically gifted" is still a bit unfair because there is no correlation between that statement and the differences between these bands unless part of that statement derives from your comparison of Dream Theater. To be a bit more fair; I believe anyone who can construct a piece of music and can find an audience that connects to what they've created, has to be "musically gifted" on some level. :tup
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I know people who say DT is an amazing band instrumentally but the singer not so much. For example, the way he sang earlier in his career was so over the top. They say his singing didn't match the song and that he sounds like he is shouting instead of carrying the notes. I do tend to agree that he shouts sometimes. Maybe that is the more metal side. I noticed this actually on a song I do kind of like...Endless Sacrifice. James does tend to shout the course "Endless Sacrifice". And again on another
favorite Blind Faith. I think James singing is great actually on their two most recent studio albums.
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I can't stand proper punk. They always seem to have horrendously recorded albums.
As others have mentioned, that is indeed the point of the albums. One should also point that DT aren't exactly the zenith of recording either. DT12 is brickwalled and has really artificial sounding drums. I could not hold it against somebody if they said "I'd rather have a shoddy recording where I know it's them, versus a piecemealed, overdubbed and compressed artificial entity."
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First off, I wouldn't have used that song as an introduction to DT. I would have used something a little more accessible. Secondly, I love a lot of what DT have done but I don't like that song at all. Not even a little. If your friend has an open mind and doesn't hate the genre completely maybe he'd like other songs of theirs.
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I can't stand proper punk. They always seem to have horrendously recorded albums.
As others have mentioned, that is indeed the point of the albums. One should also point that DT aren't exactly the zenith of recording either. DT12 is brickwalled and has really artificial sounding drums. I could not hold it against somebody if they said "I'd rather have a shoddy recording where I know it's them, versus a piecemealed, overdubbed and compressed artificial entity."
Yes I know. The irony with punk is that - it's all " break all the rules - do what you want " ethos. So surely that should include going against the DIY album recording ethic :lol
That - and I was a production student - so I tend to take a little bit more notice. Although - not as much as some people on this forum ! :P
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Yea, opinions and stu---WHY DID YOU START WITH CAUGHT IN A WEB?!
Seriously, so many better starter songs to choose from.
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First off, I wouldn't have used that song as an introduction to DT. I would have used something a little more accessible. Secondly, I love a lot of what DT have done but I don't like that song at all. Not even a little. If your friend has an open mind and doesn't hate the genre completely maybe he'd like other songs of theirs.
I think that's the whole problem with a lot of DT haters. They heard one or two songs and passed judgment on the band strictly from that. Pull Me Under is a great song, but apart from JLB's vocals, I don't think it showcases the full capabilities of any of the TD members.
My point is that a lot of these haters have such a tiny scope of what kind of music DT actually plays, that they'll make broad, inaccurate and horribly ignorant statements like, "JP can't play good leads," or that he doesn't have good riffs.
But if those people can't be bothered to look at a couple of other songs, then screw them. They can continue to live in their narrow holes. I'll enjoy DT's music without the need for other people's validation.
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I think people want other people to like their favorite music because it's much more fun to enjoy something together.
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I think people want other people to like their favorite music because it's much more fun to enjoy something together.
Of course, that's understandable. But when it comes to my friends, I sure as hell don't give up at just one song. Personally, I always say, "If you don't like Dream Theater, then you just haven't heard the right song."
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I always laugh at the statement of "they need to listen to at least 5 songs before they can dislike it!"
How much caviar does one need to eat to know that you don't like salty fish eggs? Exactly, one helping.
DT is a pretty self-consistent band. I can fully believe a person can decide after one song that they won't like the rest.
Unless the only song they hear is Vacant or SDV.
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Or Burning My Soul. Or Status Seeker. Or Build Me Up, Break Me Down.
DT isn't that self consistent, come on. There are plenty of DT songs that would've made me dislike the band if I heard them first.
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I always laugh at the statement of "they need to listen to at least 5 songs before they can dislike it!"
How much caviar does one need to eat to know that you don't like salty fish eggs? Exactly, one helping.
DT is a pretty self-consistent band. I can fully believe a person can decide after one song that they won't like the rest.
Unless the only song they hear is Vacant or SDV.
Not really. DT is a very diverse band. Your comparison really doesn't work. DT is a lot more like ice cream than caviar. If you generally dislike sweet things, maybe you won't like any ice cream, but there are so many different flavors that if you don't like chocolate or vanilla, you might find something like cherry, or butterscotch that you do like.
You can't say, "Well, if you don't like Take Away My Pain, then you probably won't like As I Am or Metropolis."
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With the exception of Status Seeker (different singer than the rest of the albums), those other two are going to inform you a) that James LaBrie, a rather polarizing singer, is singing b) that they like fast solos and arythmical sections and c) that their approach to music is somewhat "mathematical" and d) most importantly, it's metal.
I got exposed to DT through PMU, and it gave me an idea of the band ("Metallica meets Genesis " was what I thought) which has changed reasonably little.
Now, if this discussion was about bands like Genesis, Pink Floyd, U2 or Opeth, bands who massively reinvented themselves, I could see that argument a bit more.
I think you guys have lost the frame of reference somewhat by focusing on the small stylistic differences of DT. Overall they are a very self-consistent band.
And the caviar comparison is definitely a lot better than ice cream. Everybody loves ice cream. Prog metal is a niche thing that not a lot of people like.
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And the caviar comparison is definitely a lot better than ice cream. Everybody loves ice cream. Prog metal is a niche thing that not a lot of people like.
Again, you're really looking at it through a pin sized hole. Yes, Prog Metal as a genre is pretty niche, but you're making it sound like every song DT does can be classified as formulaic "prog metal". Because they don't have any straight forward shorter metal songs, or acoustic ballads, or anything of the sort, right? ::)
I've met people who don't even know what prog metal is, they certainly aren't fans of metal, but they adore Hollow Years and I Walk Beside You, because they like good melodies, and aren't averse to rock in general. They probably wouldn't like The Dark Eternal Night, or Honor Thy Father, though. DT has all types of songs, some of which can't be classified as prog, OR metal.
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Some people just don't like how they sound, or their music just doesn't do anything for them. I think pop-punk is one of the most boring, overdone genres, yet people my age and even older basically worship it to death. Isn't really any better way to explain it, some people just don't like certain things.
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I think it would very much depend on what you chose to play someone. Other than Queensryche I cannot think of another band aside from DT that has produced so much music I adore and yet so much I dislike.
Images and Words is close enough to my favourite album of all time and yet if my first exposure to DT had've been Train of Thought or SC I likely wouldn't have bothered to dig much deeper , despite my admiration for the musicianship on display.
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Some people just don't like how they sound, or their music just doesn't do anything for them. I think pop-punk is one of the most boring, overdone genres, yet people my age and even older basically worship it to death. Isn't really any better way to explain it, some people just don't like certain things.
Okay, well, take even genres like pop-punk. I mean, personally, I really don't like Green Day or their style one bit. But I did enjoy their song Time Of Your Life before it got overplayed. Why? Because it's not a pop-punk song. It's an acoustic ballad. Just because a certain band gets labeled as a certain kind of music, doesn't mean that every song they make will necessarily fit into that genre.
With Dream Theater, they've explored many different genres, sounds and styles throughout their career. It's half the reason so many of their fans have contrary opinions, and there's so much debating happening on these forums.
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I always laugh at the statement of "they need to listen to at least 5 songs before they can dislike it!"
How much caviar does one need to eat to know that you don't like salty fish eggs? Exactly, one helping.
DT is a pretty self-consistent band. I can fully believe a person can decide after one song that they won't like the rest.
Unless the only song they hear is Vacant or SDV.
I mostly agree, but it is true that DT (and I guess a lot of progressive music in general?) is the kind of thing that grows on you. I know I didn't really care for DT when I first heard them.
But obviously that may not be true for everyone.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but most people who listen to prog-metal are more of these... "active listeners" of music. I mean, if you're really into delving deep into the music, digesting all it's aspects and also really immersing yourself into it, you'll probably like prog-metal and DT as well. Prog-metal is also for people who seek abnormal/divergent aspects and compositions in their music. For example, I get huge kicks over a guitar riff that's somehow twisty/complex/goes in a weird time signature etc. while for many people that does absolutely nothing. For me it sounds really cool and interesting, but they prefer more... I guess accessible, more ordinary (and to me more uninteresting) stuff. And that's how it goes. I'm definitely not saying prog-metal is the only genre of music that these "active listeners" are digging tho. But most people are not these active ones.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but most people who listen to prog-metal are more of these... "active listeners" of music. I mean, if you're really into delving deep into the music, digesting all it's aspects and also really immersing yourself into it, you'll probably like prog-metal and DT as well. Prog-metal is also for people who seek abnormal/divergent aspects and compositions in their music. For example, I get huge kicks over a guitar riff that's somehow twisty/complex/goes in a weird time signature etc. while for many people that does absolutely nothing. For me it sounds really cool and interesting, but they prefer more... I guess accessible, more ordinary (and to me more uninteresting) stuff. And that's how it goes. I'm definitely not saying prog-metal is the only genre of music that these "active listeners" are digging tho. But most people are not these active ones.
Lot of truth here. One reason most people won't like DT (or anything like DT).
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I can't stand proper punk. They always seem to have horrendously recorded albums.
As others have mentioned, that is indeed the point of the albums. One should also point that DT aren't exactly the zenith of recording either. DT12 is brickwalled and has really artificial sounding drums. I could not hold it against somebody if they said "I'd rather have a shoddy recording where I know it's them, versus a piecemealed, overdubbed and compressed artificial entity."
Would someone say the last part of that sentence anywhere other than an internet forum? :lol
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Yea, opinions and stu---WHY DID YOU START WITH CAUGHT IN A WEB?!
Seriously, so many better starter songs to choose from.
That is what I thought. Possibly the worst song on Awake.
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Okay, well, take even genres like pop-punk. I mean, personally, I really don't like Green Day or their style one bit. But I did enjoy their song Time Of Your Life before it got overplayed. Why? Because it's not a pop-punk song. It's an acoustic ballad. Just because a certain band gets labeled as a certain kind of music, doesn't mean that every song they make will necessarily fit into that genre.
With Dream Theater, they've explored many different genres, sounds and styles throughout their career. It's half the reason so many of their fans have contrary opinions, and there's so much debating happening on these forums.
Using an entire genre wasn't a very good example on my part, I was just giving the example that what some people love to death others could dislike. Of course a pop-punk fan could like one band of the genre but dislike another. And someone who doesn't like pop-punk could easily like a song here or there, like how someone who isn't into DT could like a few of their songs. It also isn't very accurate to say "Dream Theater has done almost every genre, so everyone should like them!" It's like I was saying where a fan of a genre could like one band but dislike another band from that genre. I love DT but I'm not huge into, say, Haken. Albeit, it's hard to find someone who does prefer it the other way around, but that's not the point.
In the end it just depends on the band itself. I kinda think this topic runs itself in circles because it just comes down to opinion. One can easily appreciate the skill and prowess of songwriting in music, more specifically in Dream Theater, but it takes a lot more than initial appreciation for a band to "stick," even if there's more controversy and discussion than there is around your average pop artist. Some people won't be into it and that's just how the world :biggrin:
But on the title of the actual thread, thinking something is "bad" and not liking it are two different things. If someone just comes out and says "DT is bad" without giving much reason then I would say they're just being close-minded. Like, come on.. Even DT's lowest lows are still pretty good.
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It's just hard for some people to grasp the concept that other people won't like the things they like.
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^ Yep. Especially when it comes down to the different scenarios of someone getting introduced to certain music. One who discovered DT versus the person being shown DT by a friend could have very different first impressions.
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... Now I feel bad for starting this post. It makes me come across as a dick. (I'm not, I swear)
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I'm sure a lot of the stuff being said isn't pointed towards you. It's just good general discussion, that's all :)
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Using an entire genre wasn't a very good example on my part, I was just giving the example that what some people love to death others could dislike. Of course a pop-punk fan could like one band of the genre but dislike another. And someone who doesn't like pop-punk could easily like a song here or there, like how someone who isn't into DT could like a few of their songs. It also isn't very accurate to say "Dream Theater has done almost every genre, so everyone should like them!" It's like I was saying where a fan of a genre could like one band but dislike another band from that genre. I love DT but I'm not huge into, say, Haken. Albeit, it's hard to find someone who does prefer it the other way around, but that's not the point.
Well, sure, I'm not saying that there's at least one DT song for everyone... I mean, I AM saying that, but it's more of a positive mantra I use to introduce my friends to DT, than a factual statement. But still, statistically speaking, I think DT's body of work is diverse enough, that anyone who's not only obsessed with one genre, or one type of sound, i.e. majority of people in the world, would enjoy at least SOME of DT's catalogue.
And yes, that's the other thing. I mean, personally, I'm not a fan of Pantera, I don't really like their sound. But I'm not just gonna be a dick about it and say they suck. I understand what they did, and I understand why it's good, and I sure as hell can respect them, even if they're not for me.
The problem is that this is the internet, and on the internet, for most people, if they personally don't like something, they'll usually just say, "This sucks." But that has much more to do with those peoples' intellectual shortcomings and incapability of forming proper creative criticisms. And people like that, I just don't bother taking seriously.
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... Now I feel bad for starting this post. It makes me come across as a dick. (I'm not, I swear)
Don't take it personally or anything, it just happens to be a topic that probably all of us can relate to so everyone's probably got something to say about it. :coolio
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It's just hard for some people to grasp the concept that other people won't like the things they like.
truth telling right here folks
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It's true...
BUT what if your first exposure to DT was this??
https://yourmajesty.ytmnd.com
First impressions go a long way...
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It's true...
BUT what if your first exposure to DT was this??
https://yourmajesty.ytmnd.com
First impressions go a long way...
That loops really well and actually makes a catchy song when played repeatedly.
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If I'd have started listening DT in 2011, I would propably said that "this band isn't special" (propably wouldn't say bad though).
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It's just hard for some people to grasp the concept that other people won't like the things they like.
It's worse when you're *meant* to like something.
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Nevermind>WDADU
*Hides behind blast door but in all honesty I don't think i'll have to but does it anyway just to be on the safe side*
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It's just hard for some people to grasp the concept that other people won't like the things they like.
Thanks for this post!!!
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I like Dream Theater. I also like Motörhead and the Ramones.
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Me: Here, let me show you a really good song *puts on Caught In A Web*
"Friend": meh... it's nothin' special
Me: HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOTHING SPECIAL? DREAM THEATER ARE FUCKING GODS! THEY ARE THE BEST MUSICIANS ALIVE, AND YOU CALL THIS NOTHING SPECIAL, YET YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE FUCKING SEX PISTOLS AND CALL THEM "MASTERS OF MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"Friend": *I'm not saying my real name,* you're scaring me
Maybe they're not into DT because you put on Caught in a Web -- which is not a particularly good song by any metric -- and insisted it's the mark of "fucking gods" who are the "best musicians alive"? I wouldn't be into Iron Maiden if my first exposure to them was you put on Quest for Fire, claiming it was "godly".
Or maybe they're not into DT because they're a very niche group with rather limited appeal, especially to someone who appreciates the short, catchy songs and the raw sound of punk bands?
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I can easily see why people don't like DT. It's complicated music and the musical arrangements and solos can make anyone dizzy. If you're just hearing them normally without previous experience the songs sound really flashy and flaunting.
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Maybe they're not into DT because you put on Caught in a Web -- which is not a particularly good song by any metric -- and insisted it's the mark of "fucking gods" who are the "best musicians alive"? I wouldn't be into Iron Maiden if my first exposure to them was you put on Quest for Fire, claiming it was "godly".
??? What's wrong with Quest for Fire?
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Maybe they're not into DT because you put on Caught in a Web -- which is not a particularly good song by any metric -- and insisted it's the mark of "fucking gods" who are the "best musicians alive"? I wouldn't be into Iron Maiden if my first exposure to them was you put on Quest for Fire, claiming it was "godly".
??? What's wrong with Quest for Fire?
It's just nothing special as Maiden songs go, in the same way that Caught in a Web isn't anything special as DT songs go. If I told my friend I didn't know any Maiden and he put on Quest for Fire, insisting it was literally the work of "gods" and the "best musicians alive", I would be very disturbed and confused. Caught in a Web and Quest for Fire are IMO terrible as introduction songs to their respective bands, though of course this is all subjective so your mileage may vary with the analogy.
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Me: Here, let me show you a really good song *puts on Caught In A Web*
"Friend": meh... it's nothin' special
Me: HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOTHING SPECIAL? DREAM THEATER ARE FUCKING GODS! THEY ARE THE BEST MUSICIANS ALIVE, AND YOU CALL THIS NOTHING SPECIAL, YET YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE FUCKING SEX PISTOLS AND CALL THEM "MASTERS OF MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"Friend": *I'm not saying my real name,* you're scaring me
Maybe they're not into DT because you put on Caught in a Web -- which is not a particularly good song by any metric -- and insisted it's the mark of "fucking gods" who are the "best musicians alive"? I wouldn't be into Iron Maiden if my first exposure to them was you put on Quest for Fire, claiming it was "godly".
Or maybe they're not into DT because they're a very niche group with rather limited appeal, especially to someone who appreciates the short, catchy songs and the raw sound of punk bands?
Exactly. Caught in a Web is NOT the epitome of DT by any means... one of the weakest songs on Awake imo. I would have put on Metropolis or something. But if they are into punk, specifically the Sex Pistols, who are as anti-prog as they come, then they aren't going to like DT anyway.
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It's true...
BUT what if your first exposure to DT was this??
https://yourmajesty.ytmnd.com
First impressions go a long way...
That loops really well and actually makes a catchy song when played repeatedly.
Thank you. That was the point actually ;) But nothing beats the YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH becaue the YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH is one of the most epic things DT ever did
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... Now I feel bad for starting this post. It makes me come across as a dick. (I'm not, I swear)
Nah, don't worry about it. Your post sparked a good thread, that's how these things go sometimes; they take on a life of their own that often has very little to do with the original post. I doubt if anyone here thinks you're a dick. :)
As for the topic, I've had my share of lively debates with my brothers, my wife and her sisters and my in-laws, etc. My two brothers (both younger) enjoyed some pretty decent music as kids and they still listen to stuff that's currently being played on FM Rock Radio (ClearChannel, et al), but they also enjoy quite a few of the old classics like Iron Maiden, Triumph, Rush, etc. One of them listens to some female-fronted progrock band, I think they're called Within Temptation or something like that. Anyway, I've spoken with them about Dream Theater, and showed them a few songs that I thought they might like. They thought it was OK, but one of the things I've noticed with this process of turning people on to Dream Theater and to prog in general: Average music listeners expect vocals pretty much immediately in any song you play for them. Big, long, chaotic and/or bombastic instrumental introductions on many of these tunes result in a "when are they going to sing?" comment almost every time I try to show a band like this to someone not familiar with Progressive Metal.
From a purely objective position, I believe there is a case that one could make in support of the idea that Dream Theater is a functionally superior group of musicians who are all clearly virtuoso-level players. Not too many of today's so-called "popular artists" are anywhere near as accomplished on their instruments, nor in the science of music theory. So, in that sort of dry, detached, analytic description, yes, Dream Theater is a "better" band than Nickleback.
But how does one define "success" in music? In my view, the artist who is "successful" in the music business has very little to do with their music theory prowess or how technically well they play their instruments. It's got more to do with connecting with listeners on an emotional level than anything else. If you can't connect with listeners, your ability to recite the cycle of 5ths or sight-read a complex musical score isn't worth diddly squat. No one gives a shit that you can blast out a 4-octave mixolydian scale @ 250BPM without even thinking about it. Yeah, sure, that's pretty cool to music theory geeks and aspiring guitar-slingers like me, but to the average person -the average music listener-the only thing that matters is whether or not they can sing along with it and how long it will stay stuck in their heads.
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Agreed. And that's OK.
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From a purely objective position, I believe there is a case that one could make in support of the idea that Dream Theater is a functionally superior group of musicians who are all clearly virtuoso-level players. Not too many of today's so-called "popular artists" are anywhere near as accomplished on their instruments, nor in the science of music theory. So, in that sort of dry, detached, analytic description, yes, Dream Theater is a "better" band than Nickleback.
Forget about the actual example, but as a general question, how do you know? That DT probably plays closer to their maximum potential more often than [inset band] doesn't in and of itself mean that [insert band]'s maximum potential is less. Just that they don't, as a collective, play to it as much. I love DT; one of my favorite bands, and as a general rule I tend toward prog more than any other genre but I rarely listen to DT because of shred virtuosity (ironically, the exception to that is Portnoy).
I just don't get the notion of trying to "convince" someone to like what I do. I could care less. It's almost all visceral; kind of like saying "my wife is hotter than your wife".
Oh, and "Quest For Fire" blows.
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Well, sure, I'm not saying that there's at least one DT song for everyone... I mean, I AM saying that, but it's more of a positive mantra I use to introduce my friends to DT, than a factual statement. But still, statistically speaking, I think DT's body of work is diverse enough, that anyone who's not only obsessed with one genre, or one type of sound, i.e. majority of people in the world, would enjoy at least SOME of DT's catalogue.
And yes, that's the other thing. I mean, personally, I'm not a fan of Pantera, I don't really like their sound. But I'm not just gonna be a dick about it and say they suck. I understand what they did, and I understand why it's good, and I sure as hell can respect them, even if they're not for me.
The problem is that this is the internet, and on the internet, for most people, if they personally don't like something, they'll usually just say, "This sucks." But that has much more to do with those peoples' intellectual shortcomings and incapability of forming proper creative criticisms. And people like that, I just don't bother taking seriously.
:tup
My sentiments
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But how does one define "success" in music? In my view, the artist who is "successful" in the music business has very little to do with their music theory prowess or how technically well they play their instruments. It's got more to do with connecting with listeners on an emotional level than anything else. If you can't connect with listeners, your ability to recite the cycle of 5ths or sight-read a complex musical score isn't worth diddly squat. No one gives a shit that you can blast out a 4-octave mixolydian scale @ 250BPM without even thinking about it. Yeah, sure, that's pretty cool to music theory geeks and aspiring guitar-slingers like me, but to the average person -the average music listener-the only thing that matters is whether or not they can sing along with it and how long it will stay stuck in their heads.
That's pretty much all there is to it in terms of one of the things that defines success in music. In essence, when listening to something for the 1st time ever with pretty much no knowledge of the band or genre, it comes down to this question. Do I want to listen to this song or this act again? If you say yes, then establishing between the connection between listener and musician has been made, and some acts do it really well enough to play in arena/stadium venues.
This kind of question may be somewhat hard to answer for those trying to get into DT with no idea of what the band is or what genre they play. Heck, I had a hard time getting into them, at first, but I knew that somewhere along the lines there was going to be some songs that I can connect well with, that I want listen to it again, that I can probably karaoke sing-along to and some people just don't feel that kind of way, but there's nothing wrong with that. That's just how it is. It's up to them whether or not they want to invest the time to listen to DT. If they really hate prog-metal, then well, getting them to make believers in DT is a mountain climb. Not saying that it is impossible, but if they are so lenient on not seeing why DT is great, then that's on them and they are going to stick that philosophy and there's nothing we can do about it. It's up to them whether or not they want to explore it.
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Could it be because you putted a fucking horrible song?
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Yeah, I don't know why he putted that one.
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Maybe they're not into DT because you put on Caught in a Web -- which is not a particularly good song by any metric -- and insisted it's the mark of "fucking gods" who are the "best musicians alive"? I wouldn't be into Iron Maiden if my first exposure to them was you put on Quest for Fire, claiming it was "godly".
??? What's wrong with Quest for Fire?
It's a terrible song.
But Caught in a Web isn't.
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My boyfriend hates JLB's vocals T.T He kinda likes the music, so I stubbornly put it on anyway. Really loud.
My bro just thinks DT makes complicated shit for the sake of complicated (no catchy feel to it). I think he's wrong about the catchy part, that really happens to me when you get to know the songs.
EDIT: kirksnosehair's post really represents what I'm thinking. And why it's so hard for me to share DT's music and my love for it with others. You can't just make people listen to one song - they're always distracted and the atmosphere is never right somehow :-\
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The Japanese say: a frog in a well cannot conceive of the ocean.
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(https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l141/phil12323/untitled-2.png) (https://s95.photobucket.com/user/phil12323/media/untitled-2.png.html)
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I've tried introducing DT to people before. Sometimes it works and they like them, but would only listen to them if I happen to be listening to them when we're doing something together. Other times they just nod and smile with a blank uncomprehending look on their face. I find this to be the case more often than not. That's ok. DT is my thing. Some people get it (like us) and some people don't.
Some people are just weird.
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I think Lil' Wayne is the biggest piece of shit to have ever been given the title 'artist', but there are millions of people who pay to see him in concert that would strongly disagree with me.
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Me: Here, let me show you a really good song *puts on Caught In A Web*
"Friend": meh... it's nothin' special
Me: HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOTHING SPECIAL? DREAM THEATER ARE FUCKING GODS! THEY ARE THE BEST MUSICIANS ALIVE, AND YOU CALL THIS NOTHING SPECIAL, YET YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE FUCKING SEX PISTOLS AND CALL THEM "MASTERS OF MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"Friend": *I'm not saying my real name,* you're scaring me
Maybe they're not into DT because you put on Caught in a Web -- which is not a particularly good song by any metric -- and insisted it's the mark of "fucking gods" who are the "best musicians alive"? I wouldn't be into Iron Maiden if my first exposure to them was you put on Quest for Fire, claiming it was "godly".
Or maybe they're not into DT because they're a very niche group with rather limited appeal, especially to someone who appreciates the short, catchy songs and the raw sound of punk bands?
I put on caught in a web because, in my house, caught in a web is the only song my entire family can agree to be great, and, because it's my opinion that it's a great song
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Maybe they're not into DT because you put on Caught in a Web -- which is not a particularly good song by any metric -- and insisted it's the mark of "fucking gods" who are the "best musicians alive"? I wouldn't be into Iron Maiden if my first exposure to them was you put on Quest for Fire, claiming it was "godly".
??? What's wrong with Quest for Fire?
It's a terrible song.
But Caught in a Web isn't.
Hooray, someone agrees with me. Caught in a web is a great song!ˇ
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People have different tastes.
I'd tell you to get over it. But you won't. You'll just grow too tired to care to talk about it.
And in the future when somebody says something like "Oh I'll listen to anything I can dance to." You''ll just roll your eyes and carry on.
That is the struggle of the mature prog fan.
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Caught in a Web is a great song. Wtf people, why am I the one defending an Awake track? :lol
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It is. But it's still mid-tier DT.
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I wouldn't use it as proof that DT were musical gods or anything, but I'd have no problem using it as an example of DT writing great, concise songs. It's a damn good little tune. I really don't rank the longer/proggier stuff as any better than the shorter length more straightforward (relatively speaking) stuff, so I'm a bit different there. "Mid tier" just sounds like..... such a prog thing to say. :lol
And I think it's a pretty good song to show to a new fan if they were into metal, and enjoyed a catchy chorus.
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And I think it's a pretty good song to show to a new fan if they were into metal, and enjoyed a catchy chorus.
Exactly, but why are we even talking about Quest for Fire again?
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I bought Awake the day it came out, and after 6:00 and Caught In A Web, I almost shut off the CD player and cried. And while Innocence Faded has really aged nicely, I think I did cry after that. For years I thought the album started with Erotomania.
DT has made worse songs than Caught In A Web, but it was probably my "first" least favorite DT song.
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I bought Awake the day it came out, and after 6:00 and Caught In A Web, I almost shut off the CD player and cried. And while Innocence Faded has really aged nicely, I think I did cry after that. For years I thought the album started with Erotomania.
DT has made worse songs than Caught In A Web, but it was probably my "first" least favorite DT song.
Now I'm the exact opposite: I got into DT with I&W, and also bought Awake on release, and was blown away by everything on there. And isn't that the point? We like the same band but can't agree on what is their "best", so how can any song be looked at as the definitive entry way into the band? Also factor in what I believe to be a truism (that your favorite era of a band is the era in which you were introduced to the band) and you have something that is so subjective as to be useless.
I'm also trying to keep the tangents to a minimum, but anyone that knows me knows I take what @TheGreatPretender said to an extreme, in that I don't believe that anyone but the artist themselves can say that art is "good" or "bad" (and even then it is only "how close did the final piece come to my vision?"). We can only say that we like it or we don't, or that it emotionally touches us or it doesn't. Anything else is wasted breath.
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Also factor in what I believe to be a truism (that your favorite era of a band is the era in which you were introduced to the band)...
I would modify your truism just a bit: one's favorite era of a band is typically the era in which the band "clicked" for that person. I am that way with a lot of bands. Case in point, I was introduced to Dream Theater in 1992 with Images, and I would definitely say I was a "fan" since that time. But the band was on a very slow climb for me until the early Jordan era, namely SFAM and SDOIT. That, to me, is by far my favorite era of the band (although the Mangini era is becoming a strong contender). Same goes for countless other bands in my collection as well.
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That would explain your unorthodox views on I&W. :biggrin:
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It's a very good album. It's just that they have released so many stellar albums that I&W easily gets outshined by many of them.
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It's a very good album. It's just that they have released so many stellar albums that I&W easily gets outshined by many of them.
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
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How we've discussed a song on Awake this long without the topic switching to Kevin Moore amazes me.
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How we've discussed a song on Awake this long without the topic switching to Kevin Moore amazes me.
He'll never be welcome again.
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Also factor in what I believe to be a truism (that your favorite era of a band is the era in which you were introduced to the band) and you have something that is so subjective as to be useless.
You could be on to something there, would explain my inexplicable appreciation for BC&SL (and maybe even SC but not quite to the same extent) despite the flak they both get from the wider community. Dunno how other people's experience on this theory would relate though. :P
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How we've discussed a song on Awake this long without the topic switching to Kevin Moore amazes me.
And there it is.
(https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hefdaddy42/DTF/kevmo.jpg)
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That's a great point. Why didn't you show your friend Space Dye Vest or Lie or something?
Why are you even showing him Dream Theater? Should just have him start with OSI. :hat
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If someone thinks DT are bad, show them something like TDEN or Scarred and whisper in his/her ear "it could be worse".
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....it could be the Answer Lies Within or Hollow Years
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Also factor in what I believe to be a truism (that your favorite era of a band is the era in which you were introduced to the band) and you have something that is so subjective as to be useless.
You could be on to something there, would explain my inexplicable appreciation for BC&SL (and maybe even SC but not quite to the same extent) despite the flak they both get from the wider community. Dunno how other people's experience on this theory would relate though. :P
And why "Abacab" and "Three Sides Live" are my No. 2 and No. 3 favorite Genesis albums of all time.
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I would have showed him SDV, but that's even more un punk and the opposite to what he likes than Caught In A Web!ˇ
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When showing DT to people, I find that it's best to show them their best rather than picking a song that's closer to a genre the listener might like. Most likely, that song isn't nearly as good of an effort as DT's tier 1 material. DT has a lot of amazing music but also a lot of "just okay" songs. I've found more success in converting through showing DT's strengths rather than the listener's preferences.
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Exactly. If they won't accept DT at their best, then DT is not for them.
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I have never really had any of my friends not like the level of musicianship of DT. The biggest criticism is usually... "I think they are cool, I just don't like the outdated 80's style singer"
I understand that a lot of people are not going to dig DT. In a world where popular music consists of Lady Gaga, Pitbull, Katy Perry, and a lot of other vomit inducing music, why would I think a lot of people would like DT?
In the end I love them and I don't care much who doesn't.
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I wouldn't use it as proof that DT were musical gods or anything, but I'd have no problem using it as an example of DT writing great, concise songs. It's a damn good little tune. I really don't rank the longer/proggier stuff as any better than the shorter length more straightforward (relatively speaking) stuff, so I'm a bit different there. "Mid tier" just sounds like..... such a prog thing to say. :lol
And I think it's a pretty good song to show to a new fan if they were into metal, and enjoyed a catchy chorus.
You're spot on. I personally actually like the songs with more catchier or original tunes. Sometimes it really does feel like DT is being technical simply for the sake of being technical, and that may hurt the songwriting at times.
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I have never really had any of my friends not like the level of musicianship of DT. The biggest criticism is usually... "I think they are cool, I just don't like the outdated 80's style singer"
I understand that a lot of people are not going to dig DT. In a world where popular music consists of Lady Gaga, Pitbull, Katy Perry, and a lot of other vomit inducing music, why would I think a lot of people would like DT?
In the end I love them and I don't care much who doesn't.
Why do you have to slag other music to defend the music you like? Assuming she was singing, and assuming it sounded like "Edge of Glory" as performed on Howard Stern a couple years ago, I think I would rather hear Lady Gaga at a piano than Jordan, even if Jordan, technically speaking, has better "piano technique". That's not a knock on Jordan, by the way.
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I have never really had any of my friends not like the level of musicianship of DT. The biggest criticism is usually... "I think they are cool, I just don't like the outdated 80's style singer"
I understand that a lot of people are not going to dig DT. In a world where popular music consists of Lady Gaga, Pitbull, Katy Perry, and a lot of other vomit inducing music, why would I think a lot of people would like DT?
In the end I love them and I don't care much who doesn't.
Why do you have to slag other music to defend the music you like? Assuming she was singing, and assuming it sounded like "Edge of Glory" as performed on Howard Stern a couple years ago, I think I would rather hear Lady Gaga at a piano than Jordan, even if Jordan, technically speaking, has better "piano technique". That's not a knock on Jordan, by the way.
I'm giving my opinion. I don't like most pop music so I get that people don't like the stuff I listen too.
I'm slagging music I don't like? To who, a forum I post on? I'm not ripping my friends for what they listen too. I don't care.
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I have never really had any of my friends not like the level of musicianship of DT. The biggest criticism is usually... "I think they are cool, I just don't like the outdated 80's style singer"
I understand that a lot of people are not going to dig DT. In a world where popular music consists of Lady Gaga, Pitbull, Katy Perry, and a lot of other vomit inducing music, why would I think a lot of people would like DT?
In the end I love them and I don't care much who doesn't.
Why do you have to slag other music to defend the music you like? Assuming she was singing, and assuming it sounded like "Edge of Glory" as performed on Howard Stern a couple years ago, I think I would rather hear Lady Gaga at a piano than Jordan, even if Jordan, technically speaking, has better "piano technique". That's not a knock on Jordan, by the way.
I'm giving my opinion. I don't like most pop music so I get that people don't like the stuff I listen too.
I'm slagging music I don't like? To who, a forum I post on? I'm not ripping my friends for what they listen too. I don't care.
I probably owe you an apology; it was the "vomit-inducing" and then the obligatory dismissal of the standard pop music names. It's just a pet peeve of mine, as if what any one person likes or doesn't is relevant. I dislike Bob Dylan with the passion of a thousand suns, it is virtually unlistenable to me, but it would be ridiculous of me to suggest that it is "vomit-inducing" or that my opinion is relevant to anyone but me. The guy is clearly a legend and one of the most influential and meaningful artists of the 20th century.
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I have never really had any of my friends not like the level of musicianship of DT. The biggest criticism is usually... "I think they are cool, I just don't like the outdated 80's style singer"
I understand that a lot of people are not going to dig DT. In a world where popular music consists of Lady Gaga, Pitbull, Katy Perry, and a lot of other vomit inducing music, why would I think a lot of people would like DT?
In the end I love them and I don't care much who doesn't.
Why do you have to slag other music to defend the music you like? Assuming she was singing, and assuming it sounded like "Edge of Glory" as performed on Howard Stern a couple years ago, I think I would rather hear Lady Gaga at a piano than Jordan, even if Jordan, technically speaking, has better "piano technique". That's not a knock on Jordan, by the way.
I'm giving my opinion. I don't like most pop music so I get that people don't like the stuff I listen too.
I'm slagging music I don't like? To who, a forum I post on? I'm not ripping my friends for what they listen too. I don't care.
I probably owe you an apology; it was the "vomit-inducing" and then the obligatory dismissal of the standard pop music names. It's just a pet peeve of mine, as if what any one person likes or doesn't is relevant. I dislike Bob Dylan with the passion of a thousand suns, it is virtually unlistenable to me, but it would be ridiculous of me to suggest that it is "vomit-inducing" or that my opinion is relevant to anyone but me. The guy is clearly a legend and one of the most influential and meaningful artists of the 20th century.
Well, vomit inducing may be a bit much. I guess I was trying to say that what the masses like is the polar opposite of DT so I am not surprised if someone doesn't like DT. Its not exactly toe tapping music (unless you are a seriously accomplished toe tapper)
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I don't like to brag, but toe-tapping is kind of a specialty of mine.
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DT is a bit, excuse my analogy here, like a bodybuilding contest. I am sure if you asked any of the people following it, they would say "how can people not like this perfect combination of prowess and beauty?" By the numbers, bodybuilders are healthier, better in shape and whatnot. But, the majority of people rather look at Cameron Diaz in a bikini than a female bodybuilder.
Same with DT. By the numbers it is more skilled, more impressive, but I also totally get people who say "music isn't a competition. It's supposed to put me in a certain mood." And as much as I like DT ,their music rarely puts me in a mood.
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DT is a bit, excuse my analogy here, like a bodybuilding contest. I am sure if you asked any of the people following it, they would say "how can people not like this perfect combination of prowess and beauty?" By the numbers, bodybuilders are healthier, better in shape and whatnot. But, the majority of people rather look at Cameron Diaz in a bikini than a female bodybuilder.
Same with DT. By the numbers it is more skilled, more impressive, but I also totally get people who say "music isn't a competition. It's supposed to put me in a certain mood." And as much as I like DT ,their music rarely puts me in a mood.
What would a band like Spiral Architect (who I consider to be great) or even Brain Drill (who I don't) be in this analogy? :lol
Also, if you get rid of the solos, many DT songs aren't even that technical apart from the odd tricky riff: PMU, NM, 'Strange Deja Vu', FAS, StR, TRoAE, SS, CiaW, BMU, BMD, OtBoA, 'Forsaken', 'The Mirror' aren't exactly overwhelmingly, in-your-face technical and all set some sort of mood. Even a more complex song like 'Outcry' has a purpose in its most technical moments as it conveys the chaos of a violent uprising perfectly. What else could could express crazy events better than crazy, angular music?
Sorry if I've misunderstood your post.
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DT is a bit, excuse my analogy here, like a bodybuilding contest. I am sure if you asked any of the people following it, they would say "how can people not like this perfect combination of prowess and beauty?" By the numbers, bodybuilders are healthier, better in shape and whatnot. But, the majority of people rather look at Cameron Diaz in a bikini than a female bodybuilder.
Same with DT. By the numbers it is more skilled, more impressive, but I also totally get people who say "music isn't a competition. It's supposed to put me in a certain mood." And as much as I like DT ,their music rarely puts me in a mood.
I agree with your body building analogy, and, to a certain extent the thing about putting you in a certain mood, however, DTs songs put me in a number of moods, whereas, with other bands, it's mostly the same.
Ie. green day makes me want to get up, scream and sing along
Evanescence makes me feel quite sad and moody.
Dream Theater, however, does both and puts me in other moods, depending which song I listen to.
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I love DT.
But I wouldn't mind Cameron Diaz in a bikini, either.
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Sorry, is this the thread for talking about Mangini's in bikinis?
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Not to change the subject or anything, but while searching google images for a good pic to photoshop Mangini's head onto a woman's body I came across some old pics of him with short hair. Not a bad look:
(https://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/noisecreep.com/files/2011/04/mike-mangini-200-042911.jpg)