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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Progressive Metal Fusion on August 13, 2014, 07:41:25 AM
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Considering the current directions, influences, and what the new bands are doing, regarding progressive metal music, should DT follow them, showing that they're still the reference point, or they should go ahead without thinking to that?
Personally, I would like to hear some "djentish" songs from DT, combined with their delicate and unique melodies. For me, it would be a very intriguing music mixture.
Also, I'd like to hear more fusion moment's, a la LTE.
Feel free to mention bands (for example: Planet X, Animal as Leaders, TesseracT, Blotted Science, Intervals, etc...) from which DT might take inspiration.
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I would love to see them execute some latin Jazz just something quick and sick that's all I ask.
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I'd love to see them explore more atmospheric passages, the intro to Behind The Veil for example is amazing. I would love to see some more of this stuff.
Also, some more hard rock approach, i feel like it's missing in the recent albums, while it was present on SDOIT and FII. I think that less metal would give more space to Jordan and John Myung to do interesting stuff.
So i would say less metal riffing and more rocking-jazzy-fusion stuff would be nice.
I also would love to see Mike's rhythmic abilities more involved this time, i'm still waiting for that head-scratching rhythm that becomes so satisfying after figuring it out.
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I'd love to see them explore more atmospheric passages, the intro to Behind The Veil for example is amazing. I would love to see something more of this stuff.
Also, some more hard rock approach, i feel like it's missing in the recent albums, while it was present on SDOIT and FII. I think that less metal would give more space to Jordan and John Myung to do interesting stuff.
This.
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For every post where someone 'wants' something different there will be a post that replies 'no thanks' and that is the damned
if you do/don't problem DT has. I would like to believe that they are creating music that springs from their heart and soul but
I believe they (especially JP) gives strong consideration to what the fans will think and therefore they will probably never stray
far from the melodic prog metal format that they have always followed. In other words, dance with the girl that brung ya.
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The OP's nickname pretty much sums it up for me. I'd love it if they took full advantage of MM and got a bit more technical, in a Planet X kind of vein. Give Jordan and JM more space too, not just inject them after the song is basically done. Also, the hard rock riff of IT was brilliant, I'd be happy to hear more of those as well as more songs like Lines in the Sand, Trial of Tears or Blind Faith...
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I'd love to see them explore more atmospheric passages, the intro to Behind The Veil for example is amazing. I would love to see something more of this stuff.
Also, some more hard rock approach, i feel like it's missing in the recent albums, while it was present on SDOIT and FII. I think that less metal would give more space to Jordan and John Myung to do interesting stuff.
So i would say less metal riffing and more rocking-jazzy-fusion stuff would be nice.
All of this would be good. Something less metal, and incorporating some different styles they haven't explored before, or just haven't explored a lot, and giving more space for the other instruments to become the foundation of the song.
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I'm fine where they are. I just don't want them to get lazy or generic. of course, some would argue they're already there...
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Also, some more hard rock approach, i feel like it's missing in the recent albums, while it was present on SDOIT and FII. I think that less metal would give more space to Jordan and John Myung to do interesting stuff.
So i would say less metal riffing and more rocking-jazzy-fusion stuff would be nice.
This. There was a lot of cool fusiony stuff on I&W that I miss, and a lot of it has to do with JPs guitar tone. It had a more, "woody" sound.
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I dunno. I'm pretty happy with their current sound. They just need to nail the production.
I'd be happy with a "Mixed Grill" DT album like Octavarium again - showcasing every side of them.
I don't like totally mellow albums or completely balls-out heavy albums.
They both get boring really fast.
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I'm fine where they are. I just don't want them to get lazy or generic. of course, some would argue they're already there...
They are getting generic. I think too much focus has been on touring and not enough effort is going into making solid albums. There is an achievable balance between the two. Of course, it was reversed in the early years when they had more time to concentrate on writing really good music. I don't like the direction that RR is taking the band. They've lost the really complex, jazzy and technical side of their writing. They need to get back to their heavily progressive roots.
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I'd be happy with a "Mixed Grill" DT album like Octavarium again - showcasing every side of them.
Honestly, I might characterize the last two albums as this, no?
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I don't think they were done as well. DT12 was mostly heavy throughout and Along For The Ride is possibly their worst ballad ever.
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I'd be happy with a "Mixed Grill" DT album like Octavarium again - showcasing every side of them.
Honestly, I might characterize the last two albums as this, no?
ADTOE: yes
DT12: not really
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I wish they would change up their approach to song structuring and chorus writing on the next album. I enjoy DT's "epic, soaring melody" sound, but I think I'd like it more if it was something that happened once in a song (let's say) instead of something that I know will predictably repeat three times in a song because it's time for the chorus...
Besides that, I still enjoy their core sound and hope that the trend of JM's playing being more up-front and independent of the guitar continues.
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I'd like them to try some sort of Flamenco-like song. Acoustic guitar for Petrucci not just for soft/emotional parts.
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For every post where someone 'wants' something different there will be a post that replies 'no thanks' and that is the damned
if you do/don't problem DT has. I would like to believe that they are creating music that springs from their heart and soul but
I believe they (especially JP) gives strong consideration to what the fans will think and therefore they will probably never stray
far from the melodic prog metal format that they have always followed. In other words, dance with the girl that brung ya.
Exactly this.
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More poppish and jazzy songs, metal songs could be even more metal. Now they are in a safe mode doing things what they have done earlier. More modern sounding album could be my hope. Not Opeth-kind-of-modern sound, I mean modern and clear sounds.
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Cut back a little on the metal and give us more proggier things. You know, more twists and turns, unexpected stuff. I'm thinking SDOIT experimentation and such.
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More experimental ala SDOIT.
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I'm sorry, but what was so experimental about 6 D's?
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I'm sorry, but what was so experimental about 6 D's?
Virtually everything, from their songwriting to the recording methods. Easily their most experimental album. No other album sounds like it, and no other songs sound like they could be from that album.
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I'm sorry, but what was so experimental about 6 D's?
Virtually everything, from their songwriting to the recording methods. Easily their most experimental album. No other album sounds like it, and no other songs sound like they could be from that album.
Correctly stated. Listen to Misunderstood and tell me in what other album that song could fit in.
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I'm sorry, but what was so experimental about 6 D's?
Virtually everything, from their songwriting to the recording methods. Easily their most experimental album. No other album sounds like it, and no other songs sound like they could be from that album.
Sorry, newcomer here. ;D
Actually the feeling I get from 6 D's is "artistic freedom". Maybe we're talking about the same thing.
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I guess your "artistic freedom" probably falls in line with being experimental so yeah.
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DT12 was mostly heavy throughout and Along For The Ride is possibly their worst ballad ever.
The Looking Glass
The Bigger Picture
Surrender to Reason
Along for the Ride
I would not describe any of those songs as heavy. And that is four of the nine songs. Even Illumination Theory, despite being heavy early on, is more not heavy than heavy.
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DT12 was mostly heavy throughout and Along For The Ride is possibly their worst ballad ever.
The Looking Glass
The Bigger Picture
Surrender to Reason
Along for the Ride
I would not describe any of those songs as heavy. And that is four of the nine songs. Even Illumination Theory, despite being heavy early on, is more not heavy than heavy.
Thank you. I've been trying to say this for the longest time. It really perplexes me how people can think that DT12 is a heavy album.
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I'd love to see them explore more atmospheric passages, the intro to Behind The Veil for example is amazing. I would love to see something more of this stuff.
Also, some more hard rock approach, i feel like it's missing in the recent albums, while it was present on SDOIT and FII. I think that less metal would give more space to Jordan and John Myung to do interesting stuff.
So i would say less metal riffing and more rocking-jazzy-fusion stuff would be nice.
All of this would be good. Something less metal, and incorporating some different styles they haven't explored before, or just haven't explored a lot, and giving more space for the other instruments to become the foundation of the song.
Agreed.
This probably won't be popular at all, but I'd also like to see a bit more of the electronic stuff they dabbled in on ADTOE. I'm talking like the Build Me Up, Break Me Down and Outcry intros. I honestly think it would be cool to hear a little more of that in their sound.
DT12 was mostly heavy throughout and Along For The Ride is possibly their worst ballad ever.
The Looking Glass
The Bigger Picture
Surrender to Reason
Along for the Ride
I would not describe any of those songs as heavy. And that is four of the nine songs. Even Illumination Theory, despite being heavy early on, is more not heavy than heavy.
See, what I've been saying throughout the history of this debate is that the four songs that you mentioned *should* not be heavy. They're not written as heavy songs. But the guitar tone and production of the album make them *sound* heavy. Which is rather unappealing to me.
Like, honestly, the way those songs sound on record, every single one of them is heavier than anything on ADTOE. Even Along for the Ride. The guitar on the second verse just comes in way harder than (to my personal ear for these things, which you can trust or not) it really should.
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This probably won't be popular at all, but I'd also like to see a bit more of the electronic stuff they dabbled in on ADTOE. I'm talking like the Build Me Up, Break Me Down and Outcry intros. I honestly think it would be cool to hear a little more of that in their sound.
Oh man, I would love that. Honestly, BMUBMD was quite a disappointment for me, because that intro made it sound like this was going to be some more electronic, almost Industrial sounding track form DT, and then they went ahead and "Massive Epic Choir"ed it up.
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An instrumental album.
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An instrumental album.
Riiight. And you'll have JLB do what? Play the cowbell?
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Have a special edition bonus disc of Just the vocals.
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Have a special edition bonus disc of Just the vocals.
Well, while we're at it, why don't they do a complete A cappella album? Van Canto style, maybe. Have JP sing the riffs. :lol
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Rap album.
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An instrumental album.
Riiight. And you'll have JLB do what? Play the cowbell?
It really wouldn't matter to me, as long as it wasn't singing.
Don't get me wrong, I love James, but it'd be cool to see the band just go all out without having to pay regard to vocals.
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It really wouldn't matter to me, as long as it wasn't singing.
Don't get me wrong, I love James, but it'd be cool to see the band just go all out without having to pay regard to vocals.
Yeah, but he's an equal part of the band. To have him abstain from an album is kind of a ridiculous notion. I mean, that's like saying, "They should do an all out Heavy Metal album without any use of Keyboards or any kind of electonic sounds. JR should just stay out of it."
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It really wouldn't matter to me, as long as it wasn't singing.
Don't get me wrong, I love James, but it'd be cool to see the band just go all out without having to pay regard to vocals.
Yeah, but he's an equal part of the band. To have him abstain from an album is kind of a ridiculous notion. I mean, that's like saying, "They should do an all out Heavy Metal album without any use of Keyboards or any kind of electonic sounds. JR should just stay out of it."
a keyboardless album would be interesting too, though tough to pull off. Again no offense to Jordan.
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a keyboardless album would be interesting too, though tough to pull off. Again no offense to Jordan.
I don't see why it would be that tough. I mean, it'd just be more Metal and less Prog. I think JP has interesting enough riffs. In any case, my point is that I highly doubt they'd agree to something like that.
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As if they're going to be going through this thread for ideas anyway lol
Here, a compromise. A long album with like 3-4 normal songs and 30+ minute instrumental
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Actually, I'd love to hear a DT album where certain members abstain. I mean, having acoustic songs is an example, where there's no drumming. Having a little straight forward Heavy Metal tune with no keyboards, of course an instrumental. They could even do one without guitar, have drum and bass, and the keyboard playing all the leads. It would be interesting, I think.
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That would be a natural progression from DT12 too. There are quite a bit of moments on DT12 where certain members abstain. I love how it's just bass, drums, and JP's solo in Looking Glass, for example. No lame guitar overdubs and no keyboards. All kinds of cool moments like that in the album, it'd be nice if they explored that further.
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Considering the current directions, influences, and what the new bands are doing, regarding progressive metal music, should DT follow them, showing that they're still the reference point, or they should go ahead without thinking to that?
Personally, I would like to hear some "djentish" songs from DT, combined with their delicate and unique melodies. For me, it would be a very intriguing music mixture.
Also, I'd like to hear more fusion moment's, a la LTE.
Almost ANYTHING but that. :lol
Nothing against modern progressive metal bands or djent in general, but I feel that it's been killed. Every new metal band and their grandmothers are using djent tones now, I'm so sick it. It's a cool tone, and it was an interesting reference for The Enemy Inside, but I hope DT stay far away from whatever is becoming of the more modern metal scene because it starts to get pretty generic. And I know a lot of dject riffing can get somewhat technical but it can also get repetitive and annoying. Not that I expect JP to listen to me, and not to offend anyone, I'm just saying djent tones are fine in moderation, but please don't take the band in that direction. :xbones
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I'd love to see some real nice experimentation. Something like SDOIT, as far as diversity.
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That would be a natural progression from DT12 too. There are quite a bit of moments on DT12 where certain members abstain. I love how it's just bass, drums, and JP's solo in Looking Glass, for example. No lame guitar overdubs and no keyboards. All kinds of cool moments like that in the album, it'd be nice if they explored that further.
You mean Surrender to Reason, right? The wacky, fuzzy solo? In The Looking Glass there's keys behind the solo.
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I basically just want them to do something different... They haven't done anything fresh or groundbreaking since Octavarium, and even that album was flawed. The last truly unique album was Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, although A Dramatic Turn of Events did harken back to some of the old-school DT elements that I love so much, but ultimately got my hopes up because their latest album is garbage as far as I'm concerned. They just fell right back into the same old uninspired "autopilot" mode they slipped into as soon as they joined Roadrunner Records...
The thing that's so damn frustrating is that I can think of SO MANY other amazing things they could be doing, but instead they're trying to appeal to the masses... (Grammy nomination, anyone?) When Mike Mangini joined the band, I was excited, because I thought he could do for the band what Jordan did for them, which was open up for a whole new world of possibilities, stylistically. Mike Mangini is extremely well-rounded, and can play anything from extreme technical metal to Afro-Cuban Latin jazz, and convincingly. It seems like such a waste to write mainstream crap and not take advantage of his abilities, or his vast musical knowledge and his diverse drumming background. Honestly, I haven't heard any drum parts from him that Mike Portnoy couldn't have done... Part of having a new drummer is to have a fresh take on things, and I simply don't feel that Mangini has come up with anything that falls in that category.
I'm not against mainstream music; in fact, many of my favorite bands and artists are quite accessible and "commercial" sounding. For example, I love the Falling Into Infinity album, and most all of the radio-friendly tunes from Images and Words and Awake. I just think that they're just repeating themselves over and over, so the impact of the music they are churning out is diminished. Honestly though, I think the band's best days are behind them... I think they're on the downward slope of their career. I realize that their record/ticket sales probably say otherwise, but those numbers don't reflect how many fans bought the record and didn't like it. Financial success doesn't necessarily equate to artistic success... Besides, when you're young and ambitious, with the whole world ahead of you, you're more inspired and hungry----you're out to prove something. I think a large part of the problem is that they haven't let up with the vicious "write/record/tour" cycle... Who says you have to put out an album every two years? Maybe this is where Roadrunner Records comes in...
Furthermore, do they really need to be signed to a major label? They could always go the Steve Vai route, and write/record/tour on their own terms and at their own pace, on their own 'label', instead of having to fulfill contractual obligations. But yeah, getting back to the original topic, here are some things I think they could be doing more of...
-jazz fusion
-flamenco-ish stuff
-Latin influences
-more piano, more acoustic guitar
-maybe another double album, where one side is entirely band + orchestra
-electronic stuff mixed with heavy riffing
-more rock'n roll riffs, less metal
-more funky breakdowns
-more fusion-y playing from JP
-a whole song with only guitar + Vocals
-another concept album
-a whole album with only acoustic instruments
-more thought provoking lyrics, more metaphors
-a whole album that is chill, ambient and soundtrack-ish
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I basically just want them to do something different... They haven't done anything fresh or groundbreaking since Octavarium, and even that album was flawed. The last truly unique album was Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, although A Dramatic Turn of Events did harken back to some of the old-school DT elements that I love so much, but ultimately got my hopes up because their latest album is garbage as far as I'm concerned. They just fell right back into the same old uninspired "autopilot" mode they slipped into as soon as they joined Roadrunner Records...
The thing that's so damn frustrating is that I can think of SO MANY other amazing things they could be doing, but instead they're trying to appeal to the masses... (Grammy nomination, anyone?) When Mike Mangini joined the band, I was excited, because I thought he could do for the band what Jordan did for them, which was open up for a whole new world of possibilities, stylistically. Mike Mangini is extremely well-rounded, and can play anything from extreme technical metal to Afro-Cuban Latin jazz, and convincingly. It seems like such a waste to write mainstream crap and not take advantage of his abilities, or his vast musical knowledge and his diverse drumming background. Honestly, I haven't heard any drum parts from him that Mike Portnoy couldn't have done... Part of having a new drummer is to have a fresh take on things, and I simply don't feel that Mangini has come up with anything that falls in that category.
I'm not against mainstream music; in fact, many of my favorite bands and artists are quite accessible and "commercial" sounding. For example, I love the Falling Into Infinity album, and most all of the radio-friendly tunes from Images and Words and Awake. I just think that they're just repeating themselves over and over, so the impact of the music they are churning out is diminished. Honestly though, I think the band's best days are behind them... I think they're on the downward slope of their career. I realize that their record/ticket sales probably say otherwise, but those numbers don't reflect how many fans bought the record and didn't like it. Financial success doesn't necessarily equate to artistic success... Besides, when you're young and ambitious, with the whole world ahead of you, you're more inspired and hungry----you're out to prove something. I think a large part of the problem is that they haven't let up with the vicious "write,record,tour" cycle... Who says you have to put out an album every two years? Maybe this is where Roadrunner Records comes in...
Furthermore, do they been really need to be signed to a major label? They could always go the Steve Vai route, and write/record/tour on their own terms and at their own pace, on their own 'label', instead of having to fulfill contractual obligations. But yeah, getting back to the original topic, here are some things I think they could be doing more of...
-jazz fusion
-flamenco-ish stuff
-Latin influences
-more piano, more acoustic guitar
-maybe another double album, where one side is entirely band + orchestra
-electronic stuff mixed with heavy riffing
-more rock'n roll riffs, less metal
-more funky breakdowns
-more fusion-y playing from JP
-a whole song with only guitar + Vocals
-another concept album
-a whole album with only acoustic instruments
-more thought provoking lyrics, more metaphors
-a whole album that is chill, ambient and soundtrack-ish
Not sure if you've heard of the band Suspyre, but their first album was mainly Power Prog. It was fun, catchy, energetic, melodic. Then after that they got more technical with the jazz fusion whatever, and they didn't have the catchy melodies anymore. They became boring. There's nothing wrong with a mainstream sound. I'll take simple and catchy over boring techobabble anyday. Plus, the things you listed are very cliched prog band things. Tropes I believe the term is.
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That would be a natural progression from DT12 too. There are quite a bit of moments on DT12 where certain members abstain. I love how it's just bass, drums, and JP's solo in Looking Glass, for example. No lame guitar overdubs and no keyboards. All kinds of cool moments like that in the album, it'd be nice if they explored that further.
You mean Surrender to Reason, right? The wacky, fuzzy solo? In The Looking Glass there's keys behind the solo.
Ah yes. Looking Glass is a good example of what I mean too though, the keys are there but they really take a back seat. The bass/drums/guitar trio is really the main event.
I think DT as a band are finally learning how to take a step back. This was especially an issue on the last 3 album, songs were longer than they needed to be at times and there were a lot of solo sections that seemed somewhat arbitrary. When I hear the guitar soloing with not only bass and drums underneath, but a bunch of a keybard parts AND overdubbed guitar parts going...that's just way too much. When you strip it down to no guitar overdubs (seriously wtf is the point of that anyway?) and either drums+keyboards or drums+bass or some other combo, not only can you hear more subtleties in everyone's playing as well as interactions between the players, but you also get a shift in dynamics. Take down the volume and adjust the mood a bit, before going into the next section with everyone playing in a grand fashion. The final chorus of Surrender To Reason gives me chills and part of that is because of the way the solo section builds into it. Much more effective than the other way of doing it. Less is more!
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An instrumental album.
Riiight. And you'll have JLB do what? Play the cowbell?
It really wouldn't matter to me, as long as it wasn't singing.
Don't get me wrong, I love James, but it'd be cool to see the band just go all out without having to pay regard to vocals.
I think you're mistaken in implying that the band pays attention to vocals out of a sense of obligation. And I think "going all out" for them, in the sense of making the music they want to make without any sense of obligation, would still include James. At very minimum, it's known that John Petrucci loves writing lyrics (and presumably vocal melodies given MP's policy on lyrics submissions from 2000 until he left the band).
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The thing that's so damn frustrating is that I can think of SO MANY other amazing things they could be doing, but instead they're trying to appeal to the masses... (Grammy nomination, anyone?)
This doesn't make any sense, since it implies that the band went out of their way to write something mainstream to garner a grammy nomination, when in reality, they did what they always do, which is whatever they want, and the grammy nomination just happened.
DT12 was mostly heavy throughout and Along For The Ride is possibly their worst ballad ever.
The Looking Glass
The Bigger Picture
Surrender to Reason
Along for the Ride
I would not describe any of those songs as heavy. And that is four of the nine songs. Even Illumination Theory, despite being heavy early on, is more not heavy than heavy.
See, what I've been saying throughout the history of this debate is that the four songs that you mentioned *should* not be heavy. They're not written as heavy songs. But the guitar tone and production of the album make them *sound* heavy. Which is rather unappealing to me.
Like, honestly, the way those songs sound on record, every single one of them is heavier than anything on ADTOE. Even Along for the Ride. The guitar on the second verse just comes in way harder than (to my personal ear for these things, which you can trust or not) it really should.
I don't agree with any of this. Those songs don't sound heavy to me. Hard rocking at times? Sure, but heavy? No way.
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I don't agree with any of this. Those songs don't sound heavy to me. Hard rocking at times? Sure, but heavy? No way.
Yeah, I don't know how to convince anyone of it or anything, but they definitely sound heavy to me. They seem heavy in a way that is seemingly as a result of the production and tone and not of the songwriting. I explained to the best of my ability what it is about those songs for me, but I don't know what else to say about it aside from "agree to disagree?"
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See, what I've been saying throughout the history of this debate is that the four songs that you mentioned *should* not be heavy. They're not written as heavy songs. But the guitar tone and production of the album make them *sound* heavy. Which is rather unappealing to me.
Like, honestly, the way those songs sound on record, every single one of them is heavier than anything on ADTOE. Even Along for the Ride. The guitar on the second verse just comes in way harder than (to my personal ear for these things, which you can trust or not) it really should.
Even the stuff that's not heavy in terms of composition, is heavy and drenched in guitar in the arrangement, which makes it sound a bit samey and heavy overall to me. And there's also the fat metal drum sound used throughout. That also makes AFTR sound heavier than it ought to be. A lot of those middle songs blur together for me because of the arrangements and production.
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I don't agree with any of this. Those songs don't sound heavy to me. Hard rocking at times? Sure, but heavy? No way.
Yeah, I don't know how to convince anyone of it or anything, but they definitely sound heavy to me. They seem heavy in a way that is seemingly as a result of the production and tone and not of the songwriting. I explained to the best of my ability what it is about those songs for me, but I don't know what else to say about it aside from "agree to disagree?"
Fair enough. :coolio
Even the stuff that's not heavy in terms of composition, is heavy and drenched in guitar in the arrangement, which makes it sound a bit samey and heavy overall to me. And there's also the fat metal drum sound used throughout. That also makes AFTR sound heavier than it ought to be. A lot of those middle songs blur together for me because of the arrangements and production.
That's not unusual for a metal band to use a "big" drum sound in a mellow-ish song. Listen to Metallica's Nothing Else Matters. Ulrich's big fat bass drum sound gives it that "metal band doing a mellow song" vibe.
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For those keeping score...the collective "wants" for DT13
-Djentish
-Fusion
-Latin jazz quick and sick
-More Atmospheric
-More hard rock
-Less metal riffing
-Use MM more
-More technicality
-Not lazy or generic
-Mixed grill
-Back to heavy progressive roots
-Change song writing approach
-Flamenco
-More poppy and jazzy
-Less metal more prog
-More experimental
-Instrumental only
-Rap
-Anything but djent
So can we imagine what this album of collective opinion would sound like? :-*
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Looks like a very diverse album :lol
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Put me firmly in the "anything but djent" camp.
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The thing that's so damn frustrating is that I can think of SO MANY other amazing things they could be doing, but instead they're trying to appeal to the masses... (Grammy nomination, anyone?)
Yeah, dude, I HATE that DT sold out so much with On the Backs of Angels and The Enemy Inside. It's such a bummer that DT betrayed their original style by writing heavy prog metal rockers that are 8 and 6 minutes long respectively. When I listen to the synth solo in TEI I can't help but think how well it would fit in with the likes of Katy Perry's new album, and everyone noticed as soon as OTBOA was released that they were obviously drawing from Ke$ha's signature sound in the extended intro. I wish DT would stop trying to appeal to the masses and just do their own thing, because honestly it's just getting embarrassing.
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For those keeping score...the collective "wants" for DT13
-Djentish
-Fusion
-Latin jazz quick and sick
-More Atmospheric
-More hard rock
-Less metal riffing
-Use MM more
-More technicality
-Not lazy or generic
-Mixed grill
-Back to heavy progressive roots
-Change song writing approach
-Flamenco
-More poppy and jazzy
-Less metal more prog
-More experimental
-Instrumental only
-Rap
-Anything but djent
So can we imagine what this album of collective opinion would sound like? :-*
The album would be scizophrenic as hell! :lol
Also, no djent please...
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The thing that's so damn frustrating is that I can think of SO MANY other amazing things they could be doing, but instead they're trying to appeal to the masses... (Grammy nomination, anyone?)
Yeah, dude, I HATE that DT sold out so much with On the Backs of Angels and The Enemy Inside. It's such a bummer that DT betrayed their original style by writing heavy prog metal rockers that are 8 and 6 minutes long respectively. When I listen to the synth solo in TEI I can't help but think how well it would fit in with the likes of Katy Perry's new album, and everyone noticed as soon as OTBOA was released that they were obviously drawing from Ke$ha's signature sound in the extended intro. I wish DT would stop trying to appeal to the masses and just do their own thing, because honestly it's just getting embarrassing.
"Prog Metal" There's plenty of Metal, but no Prog in those songs.
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They should do a tour to celebrate A Change Of SEASONS anniversary. Supporting acts:
Johnny WINTER
OffSPRING
Andy SUMMERs
HammerFALL
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They should do a tour to celebrate A Change Of SEASONS anniversary. Supporting acts:
Johnny WINTER
OffSPRING
Andy SUMMERs
HammerFALL
Sad joke, pal... RIP Johnny Winter.
You could have used his brother Edgar. (And "Autumn Leaves" for closing the 4 seasons).
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Mostly Autumn would work too.
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The thing that's so damn frustrating is that I can think of SO MANY other amazing things they could be doing, but instead they're trying to appeal to the masses... (Grammy nomination, anyone?)
Yeah, dude, I HATE that DT sold out so much with On the Backs of Angels and The Enemy Inside. It's such a bummer that DT betrayed their original style by writing heavy prog metal rockers that are 8 and 6 minutes long respectively. When I listen to the synth solo in TEI I can't help but think how well it would fit in with the likes of Katy Perry's new album, and everyone noticed as soon as OTBOA was released that they were obviously drawing from Ke$ha's signature sound in the extended intro. I wish DT would stop trying to appeal to the masses and just do their own thing, because honestly it's just getting embarrassing.
:lol
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he forgot about sarcasm green, I think? :lol
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Do you really need green text to tell it's sarcasm? :p
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Maybe some bluegrass. An upright bass for JM, some chicken-pickin' from JP, an upright piano for JR, some brushes on the snare for MM.
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Not sure if you've heard of the band Suspyre, but their first album was mainly Power Prog. It was fun, catchy, energetic, melodic. Then after that they got more technical with the jazz fusion whatever, and they didn't have the catchy melodies anymore. They became boring. There's nothing wrong with a mainstream sound. I'll take simple and catchy over boring techobabble anyday. Plus, the things you listed are very cliched prog band things. Tropes I believe the term is.
I see where you're coming from, however we will have to agree to disagree. I understand the point you're making, but I don't share that sentiment. As a fan of Steve Vai, Pat Metheny, King Crimson, etc; I enjoy musician's music I guess. I do enjoy quite a few mainstream acts, however that's not what I want to hear from DT, especially after being exposed to their previous albums, which are simply amazing. When you know what these guys are capable of, it's kinda hard to accept them settling into a "mainstream sound", at least for me. Besides, they've never been a radio band overall.
The thing that's so damn frustrating is that I can think of SO MANY other amazing things they could be doing, but instead they're trying to appeal to the masses... (Grammy nomination, anyone?)
Yeah, dude, I HATE that DT sold out so much with On the Backs of Angels and The Enemy Inside. It's such a bummer that DT betrayed their original style by writing heavy prog metal rockers that are 8 and 6 minutes long respectively. When I listen to the synth solo in TEI I can't help but think how well it would fit in with the likes of Katy Perry's new album, and everyone noticed as soon as OTBOA was released that they were obviously drawing from Ke$ha's signature sound in the extended intro. I wish DT would stop trying to appeal to the masses and just do their own thing, because honestly it's just getting embarrassing.
First off, I like A Dramatic Turn of Events quite a bit. My comment in regards to the Grammy nomination was implying that their nomination for On The Backs of Angels could have possibly prompted them to write a more accessible album, resulting in DT12. I get that you're mocking my opinion or whatever, but you really didn't think it through all that well---there's obviously no way a Grammy nomination would've influenced their writing for A Dramatic Turn of Events, as they hadn't been nominated yet. I don't really care if anyone on this board shares or agrees with my opinion or not; I'm just contributing my 2 cents, since this is after all, a discussion board. And btw, I'm a gal. Not dude ;)
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Whatever the hell they haven't been doing since Portnoy left.
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Lets add a dash of folk music to DT13 while we're at it guys. Thank you very much.
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I think they just need to stop thinking inside their box. I think they should completely clear their musical palette, listen to music they've never heard before, clear their minds, exchange each other's instruments a la Nightmare Cinema, write an album of demo tracks using different instruments than normal, then switch back to their normal instruments and mess with what the other members gave them.
I don't know. What haven't they done already?
Also, get a better sound engineer. Steven Wilson maybe? ::) I know we discuss this a ton, but Steven Wilson and Jordan Rudess are on good terms at least...
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Another idea that crossed my mind today: more spoken word samples! Of course DT isn't Chroma Key, but at least one or two songs with samples would be cool, because DT haven't used them in a while.
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oh yea, I always liked the samples in DT's earlier stuff. Would be cool for them to bring that back!
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Whatever the hell they haven't been doing since Portnoy left.
Roars and blast beats?
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Go back to demoing rather than writing in the studio. I've never understood writing in an expensive studio where you may feel rushed and can't really refine the songs.
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Whatever the hell they haven't been doing since Portnoy left.
Roars and blast beats?
Apparently DT's entire run with MP only consisted of ANTR now..........
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"Standing by the windowwww... RRRAAAAAHHHWWWAAA!!!!!"
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Whatever the hell they haven't been doing since Portnoy left.
Roars and blast beats?
Apparently DT's entire run with MP only consisted of ANTR now..........
No, but I can't think of much else musically that they aren't doing now that they were doing during MP's tenure. Quality, of course, is in the eye of the beholder, and I am not debating that.
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Whatever the hell they haven't been doing since Portnoy left.
Roars and blast beats?
Apparently DT's entire run with MP only consisted of ANTR now..........
That's the direction they were going. Had he stayed, I still think he would have pushed for even more growls and other non DT crap.
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Whatever the hell they haven't been doing since Portnoy left.
Roars and blast beats?
Apparently DT's entire run with MP only consisted of ANTR now..........
That's the direction they were going. Had he stayed, I still think he would have pushed for even more growls and other non DT crap.
You'd think the mark of a progressive band would be incorporating new elements that weren't a part of their sound before, rather than recycling the same elements forever. They can't keep writing the same album for 20+ years. They've included a lot of new elements that weren't already a part of their sound, and made it part of their sound.
It's only "non-DT" until it's actually done, at which point it is all DT. It's arbitrary opinion to decide what elements are "DT" or "non-DT". Like it or not, MP was pushing to do something different.
I want to hear DT try different things. ADTOE had a very "been there, done that" feel to it that made it an entirely redundant album for me.
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They weren't good ideas and they were executed very poorly on top of that. I don't even care about the blast beats, but MP trying to sound tough was laughably bad. But I'll tell you what, if they can pull it off without sounded corny as fuck, I'd take the "growls" over disco music anyday.
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Well that’s just like your opinion, man.
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I want to hear DT try different things. ADTOE had a very "been there, done that" feel to it that made it an entirely redundant album for me.
For me - they went back to sounding like DT after two albums of being a RoadRunner metal band.
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"Standing by the windowwww... RRRAAAAAHHHWWWAAA!!!!!"
:lol :lol :lol
Also, I agree with the above post. ADTOE was, and still is, a breath of fresh air after the sometimes overpowering darkness of SC and BC&SL.
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I agree that ADTOE was a been there done that mood, but I think that was intentional. They were going back to a basic prog style to use as a springboard for another direction, which they've pursued in DT12. The next album will probably be another continuation of that. It makes sense after heading down a direction (SC/BC&SL) that they were probably no longer satisfied with.
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Considering how many times they themselves stated that it WAS intentional, I really don't see why people think it was because of a lack of creativity. And honestly, there was a lot on ADTOE that I thought was new grounds for them. New types of sounds, things like that, so I wouldn't even say it was as "close to home" as I expected.
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I just hope they don't continue down that same path for another album, as many others have stated.
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ADTOE was the " don't worry - we're still Dream Theater " album.
DT12 was "Mike Mangini is a fully fledged member of the band" album.
DT13 needs to be the " we're a finely oiled machine. Mangini is well and truly a member of this band and now it's time to get crazy " album.
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That's the direction they were going. Had he stayed, I still think he would have pushed for even more growls and other non DT crap.
Sorry to pick on your statement, but I think what you said there might almost represent the very mentality that's causing fans and the band to be stuck "inside the box". Expectations from the fans and preconceptions from the band. Pushing for 'non DT stuff' is a way to try something new. And it's not like it completely changes the DT sound when they try things that they haven't done before, it'll still have that DT familiarity but it'll be DT meets <new idea> like it has been the other times they've tried something new and integrated it into a familiar DT sound. And I emphasis, not as a deliberate preconception of what the DT sound is so that it'll have that familiarity, I'm saying that familiarity will exist regardless because it's the same musicians playing and the same musicians composing.
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ADTOE was the " don't worry - we're still Dream Theater " album.
DT12 was "Mike Mangini is a fully fledged member of the band" album.
DT13 needs to be the " we're a finely oiled machine. Mangini is well and truly a member of this band and now it's time to get crazy " album.
I would love an "It's time to get crazy" album, but I won't be holding my breath.
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I feel like that's what people were saying in advance of DT12. I honestly don't think they're going do an album where they "get crazy". And I guess that's alright, I still enjoy their music.
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That's the direction they were going. Had he stayed, I still think he would have pushed for even more growls and other non DT crap.
Sorry to pick on your statement, but I think what you said there might almost represent the very mentality of fans and the band being stuck "inside the box". Expectations from the fans and preconceptions from the band. Pushing for 'non DT stuff' is a way to try something new. And it's not like it completely changes the DT sound when they try things that they haven't done before, it'll still have that DT familiarity but it'll be DT meets <new idea> like it has been the other times they've tried something new and integrated it into a familiar DT sound. And I emphasis, not as deliberate preconception of what the DT sound is so that it'll have that familiarity, I'm saying that familiarity will exist regardless because it's the same musicians playing and the same musicians composing.
I'm all for trying new things. I guess what I should have said was MP was trying way too hard, and the results were poor.
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Haha fair enough. I suppose that's a matter of taste though. I don't mind that he was pushing the envelope even if not all of his ideas were my cup of tea.
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I don't think ADTOE lacked creativity necessarily, they just weren't really trying anything that new. Sure there were some new sounds and stuff, but they weren't really covering any new songwriting or even production ground. They played it safe on almost every level. Which is understandable. The problem is that because of that, I have a hard time going back to it. Pretty much every other album shows DT treading new ground in some form or another, for better or for worse. And that's what I like about them, and I go back to their albums very often because of that. Even the weaker ones.
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I want to hear DT try different things. ADTOE had a very "been there, done that" feel to it that made it an entirely redundant album for me.
For me - they went back to sounding like DT after two albums of being a RoadRunner metal band.
Exactly this. A Dramatic Turn of Events was in many ways, a return to form. It's more reminiscent of old-school DT than the past three albums with Portnoy.They weren't good ideas and they were executed very poorly on top of that. I don't even care about the blast beats, but MP trying to sound tough was laughably bad. But I'll tell you what, if they can pull it off without sounded corny as fuck, I'd take the "growls" over disco music anyday.
I don't mind the blast beats, and I'm glad Portnoy finally tried something new with his drumming, but yeah, that "growl" section in A Nightmare to Remember was just a downright horrible idea, and that was a decision that should've been vetoed by the others, without a doubt. That entire section ruins an otherwise perfectly good song. Also, let's not forget all the other influences MP had towards the end; the Muse "look-a-like" songs, mainly. I think he meant well, but I think he took his eye off the ball somehow. Why the fuck would you want to sound like a newer band anyway? I mean, you're fucking Dream Theater---the one and only. Who gives a shit what other bands are up to; and if you are influenced by them, at least try to keep from writing entire songs that sound like they came straight off an album by said influence.
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Why the fuck would you want to sound like a newer band anyway? I mean, you're fucking Dream Theater---the one and only. Who gives a shit what other bands are up to
Tell that to JP, he was influenced by Periphery on DT12. It's good that DT try to keep up with their contemporaries, they've always been that way; just check out their inspiration corners from albums like Six Degrees, this isn't something that started and ended with MP. I'd like that they're aware of what newer bands are doing, I'd rather them not be stuck in the 90s.
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James mentions in several interviews that it was important to stay "relevant" with DT12, so there's that . . .
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Bands with longevity always get influenced by the times. It's that simple.
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Why the fuck would you want to sound like a newer band anyway? I mean, you're fucking Dream Theater---the one and only. Who gives a shit what other bands are up to
Tell that to JP, he was influenced by Periphery on DT12. It's good that DT try to keep up with their contemporaries, they've always been that way; just check out their inspiration corners from albums like Six Degrees, this isn't something that started and ended with MP. I'd like that they're aware of what newer bands are doing, I'd rather them not be stuck in the 90s.
Yeah, I can kind of hear some elements of more modern prog metal in bits on this album. Mainly in False Awakening Suite, The Enemy Inside, Enigma Machine, and Illumination Theory, in the guitar parts. He utilizes that style well, as I expect he would with pretty much any style of playing. :tup
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And I think it has reinvigorated his riff writing talents. The last three albums (ADTOE included) had some really forgettable riffs imo. I love the riffs on DT12 though.
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And I think it has reinvigorated his riff writing talents. The last three albums (ADTOE included) had some really forgettable riffs imo. I love the riffs on DT12 though.
I agree that ADTOE has some forgettable riffs, although I mostly feel the same about DT12. DT12 does have more good riffs than ADTOE, especially in IT (that 12/8 one is killer, and the first verse one is great too). Can't think of many others from the album though.
While those albums are still guitar heavy, I don't think they're as riff focused in the songwriting as the later MP albums were. They're not as metal oriented in style, so I think it's an intentional shift in songwriting.
Because of that, I think BCASL and SC were much better for riffs. SC in particular had plenty of memorable riffs across the album.
But JP doesn't have a bad album. Every album is going to have some cool new riffs and at least a couple of killer solos.
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And I think it has reinvigorated his riff writing talents. The last three albums (ADTOE included) had some really forgettable riffs imo. I love the riffs on DT12 though.
I agree that ADTOE has some forgettable riffs, although I mostly feel the same about DT12. DT12 does have more good riffs than ADTOE, especially in IT (that 12/8 one is killer, and the first verse one is great too). Can't think of many others from the album though.
While those albums are still guitar heavy, I don't think they're as riff focused in the songwriting as the later MP albums were. They're not as metal oriented in style, so I think it's an intentional shift in songwriting.
Because of that, I think BCASL and SC were much better for riffs. SC in particular had plenty of memorable riffs across the album.
But JP doesn't have a bad album. Every album is going to have some cool new riffs and at least a couple of killer solos.
I like all the riffs in IT, they really hit it out of the park with that one, it rivals TGP for best riffs really. But I also like the riffs on The Enemy Inside (although I hated the riffs when I first heard it, seeing it live really helped me appreciate them more..it's explosive life :metal), The Looking Glass has a cool riff, and I really love the riffs on Enigma Machine, especially the main one. There's a lot of syncopation on DT12, which I really like. I get what you mean about the songs not being as riff focused, but I like that and I think it actually makes the riffs come out better.
BC&SL and SC have some great riffs, but some really bad ones too. I love the opening riff on Nightmare, the main riff on AROP (only salvageable part in the song IMO), and some stellar riffs on TCOT as well. Not much else sticks out to me, besides TSF but the best riffs on that are from TGP and This Dying Soul. There are better riffs on SC but unfortunately the songs as a whole are much weaker IMO. Which is what puts DT12 ahead here, it has great riffs and great songs I think. A lot of things felt arbitrary on BC&SL and (especially) SC, including the riffs, but on DT12 they seem much more natural and add more to the songs.
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I just wish that they'll go in a completely different direction than what they did on DT12. It seems very Rush-like, and for someone who doesn't like Rush at all I can't say that I dig the album.
I think they should go for more variation next time, and unlike ADTOE I thought DT12 sounded the same all the way through. The sound and production didn't help make the songs stand out from each other either.
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Except for The Looking Glass, how is DT12 Rush-like? I can't think of any Rush song that sounds anything like The Enemy Inside, Enigma Machine, The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil or Illumination Theory, for example.
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It's been a while since I listened to the album, but I remember being reminded of Rush on several songs.
Though overall it didn't really sounds like a Rush album to me.
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Except for The Looking Glass, how is DT12 Rush-like? I can't think of any Rush song that sounds anything like The Enemy Inside, Enigma Machine, The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil or Illumination Theory, for example.
Dude, Kev, how many times are we gonna have this discussion? I think at this point you should have at least acknowledged that a lot of people see the beginning of Surrender To Reason to be 100% Rush.
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So, the first 15 and last 25 seconds of a song that is 6:35, sounding a little like Rush, makes it Rush-like? Really?
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This is very reminiscent of the Tchaikovsky discussion, where people were clamoring "I don't hear it, it's not the same!", and it took Eren Basbug to come out and say "yeah, of course we plugged Tchaikovsky into it."
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You are missing the point. My point is that I think it it silly to say that DT12 is Rush-like just because of a few riffs, just like it would be silly to say that Octavarium is Muse-like just because of two things (the Never Enough riff and the Panic Attack falsetto jumps).
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Are you the great arbiter over what percentage of Rush-like sections is required in an album for it to be called Rush-like? There are two songs on the album that start out like Rush songs. One sticks with it to the end, the other lasts for a solid 45 seconds before it veers off. That is far more than a fleeting association. Case in point, nobody accuses Awake to be UK-like because they plugged In The Dead of Night into Trial of Tears.
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And to be fair, I'd say even Ytsejam is a bit reminiscent of YYZ, and it's not like DT have ever been secretive about how influenced they are by rush.
Really, anyone who says, "Man, you can hear Rush influence in DT12", all I have to say is:
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v459/Kovalevskyy/DTDuh_zps510001ea.jpg~original)
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Really, anyone who says, "Man, you can hear Rush influence in DT12", all I have to say is:
I guess it's a good thing I didn't say that, right?
Regarding Ytse Jam, even though the main melody is not something you'd hear out of Rush, I think the structure of it is definitely influenced by YYZ.
Are you the great arbiter over what percentage of Rush-like sections is required in an album for it to be called Rush-like?
As a matter of fact, I am. :biggrin:
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As an interesting exercise, what are the songs so far that have been accused of strong Rush influence?
We got so far
Ytsejam (YYZ)
The Looking Glass (Limelight)
Surrender To Reason (generic 90s Rush influence)
The Best Of Times (Spirit of Radio)
what else?
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I know some think the one riff in The Great Debate is rather Natural Science-ish. I never quite got that one either, but some have said it.
The Best of Times is the most glaring with the obvious nods to The Spirit of Radio.
Oh, and the intro to Trial of Tears sounds like a combination of Mr. Roboto (the keys) and Rush's Xanadu (some of the drum fills are like right out of Xanadu's intro).
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Most solos on WDADU are very Lifeson too.
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I can see that, but I remember JP saying, around the time of WDADR I think, that many of the solos on the first record were Yngwie-influenced, what with all of the sweep picking and whatnot.
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I guess it's a good thing I didn't say that, right?
Regarding Ytse Jam, even though the main melody is not something you'd hear out of Rush, I think the structure of it is definitely influenced by YYZ.
Although to be fair, even YYZ, when I hear that main riff, I'd say that's a little bit inspired (or at least reminds me of) King Crimson, so maybe that's the better comparison.
As for other DT Rush influences, personally, I find that in Innocence Faded, the breakdown where JLB starts singing, "Beginnings get complicated the farther we progress" sounds a lot like something Rush would do, at least in terms of vocals and the structure, having that C section that doesn't fit the format of the verses or the choruses.
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The start of the outro in Innocence Faded has a Red Barchetta vibe,and the bass-and-drums-only section in Illumination Theory reminds me of Cygnus X-1 with its sudden starts and stops.
Status Seeker also sounds a bit like 80s Rush to my ears; Charlie himself has admitted that his vocals in the first verse may be compared to Geddy's in New World Man.
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Except for The Looking Glass, how is DT12 Rush-like? I can't think of any Rush song that sounds anything like The Enemy Inside, Enigma Machine, The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil or Illumination Theory, for example.
Besides the intro of Surrender To Reason, I find the solo to be very Rush like as well.
The bass riff after the Orchestral middle of IT has a Cygnus X-1 vibe IMO.
I can't think of much else, but 3 songs is quite a lot to carry a Rush influence, since on other albums it's always limited to one song, if that.
As an interesting exercise, what are the songs so far that have been accused of strong Rush influence?
We got so far
Ytsejam (YYZ)
The Looking Glass (Limelight)
Surrender To Reason (generic 90s Rush influence)
The Best Of Times (Spirit of Radio)
what else?
Innocence Faded (Verses have an 80's Rush vibe)
Trial of Tears (Xanadu)
The Dance Of Eternity (Ending is reminiscent of Freewill, even the band cited it as an influence)
I hear Natural Science in TGD, but I find the Tool influence to overpower that quite a bit.
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As an interesting exercise, what are the songs so far that have been accused of strong Rush influence?
We got so far
Ytsejam (YYZ)
The Looking Glass (Limelight)
Surrender To Reason (generic 90s Rush influence)
The Best Of Times (Spirit of Radio)
what else?
I felt it had a Permanent Waves vibe to it.
Either way, it's just an influence.
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Less Rush influence would be great.
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They've always wore Rush on their sleeves.
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You know, it's weird. There is not a single Rush song that I like, but I like a lot of DT's songs that are the most influenced by Rush - Trial of Tears is my favourite DT song, for example.
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DT13 needs to be the " we're a finely oiled machine. Mangini is well and truly a member of this band and now it's time to get crazy " album.
See, as much as I would like for this to be the case, I honestly don't see it happening. I just don't know if the kind of crazy experimentation we saw in SFAM or SDOIT is really in the cards anymore. DT's musical identity seems to kind of just be set in stone and they don't seem too keen to veer from the beaten path.
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I would like for Dream Theater to write another album of mostly long songs like Black Clouds & Silver Linings, but with more of a prog sound than a metal sound. A lot of Dream Theater's best songs are their proggy mini-epics (Learning to Live, Scarred, Trial of Tears, Beyond This Life, Breaking All Illusions) and an album consisting of those type of songs has the potential to be the best album they ever put out.
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Considering the current directions, influences, and what the new bands are doing, regarding progressive metal music, should DT follow them, showing that they're still the reference point, or they should go ahead without thinking to that?
Feel free to mention bands (for example: Planet X, Animal as Leaders, TesseracT, Blotted Science, Intervals, etc...) from which DT might take inspiration.
This for me has been the negative for the band when they are too influenced from the outside. On octavaium it happened with too much of Muse influence and too much of the band Red. On the latest I feel they went too much into the Djent area actually and were being influence form touring with Trivium, and JP nephew's band Periphery. The guitar tone that I have always loved from john seemed to compressed on the latest. So although I appreciate they are music fans and don't mind wearing there tastes on their sleeves I think at this point they should be the ones creating and other should be sounding like them not the other way around. Rush almost not arguably DT's biggest influence have managed to keep creating new sounds and they are the trend setters, I feel DT should at this point be the trend setters as they have the most talent. I don't want to see John with an 8 string guitar.
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I'm fine where they are. I just don't want them to get lazy or generic. of course, some would argue they're already there...
They are getting generic. I think too much focus has been on touring and not enough effort is going into making solid albums. There is an achievable balance between the two. Of course, it was reversed in the early years when they had more time to concentrate on writing really good music. I don't like the direction that RR is taking the band. They've lost the really complex, jazzy and technical side of their writing. They need to get back to their heavily progressive roots.
This pretty much sums my feelings exactly. DT is and always have been my favorite band but they really haven't broken new ground in a decade. I feel like DT need to step up their game a bit on the song writing end.
Despite what the MTV might think, Prog and metal is going through a new golden age. There are so many bands out there doing great things, innovating, pushing the genre. And while DT has been able to capitalize on this commercially, they really haven't kept up. And I'm not just talking about pure prog wankery bands like Animals as Leaders or Periphery. While they aren't "prog" in the traditional sense, bands like Opeth, Steve Wilson, Insomnium, Pallbearer, Mastodon are doing more "progressive" interesting music.
I realize they are getting towards the tail end of their careers but I no longer feel like they're leaders in a genre they helped establish so many years ago.
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They should do 70s prog like Opeth and SW.
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They should do 70s prog like Opeth and SW.
No thanks. They've done enough '70s inspired prog, I think they should do something new.
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They should do 70s prog like Opeth and SW.
No thanks. They've done enough '70s inspired prog, I think they should do something new.
I think it's likely that at least JP will continue to be influenced by 2010s prog metal. I'm perfectly fine with that because the uses he's made of that inspiration on DT12 have been fantastic. :)
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I was kidding :laugh:
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They sould go in experimentation direction.
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I was kidding :laugh:
Thank God! :biggrin:
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Surrender To Reason (generic 90s Rush influence)
I felt it had a Permanent Waves vibe to it.
I heard Tom Sawyer the first time I popped DT12 in.
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I think they should make (almost) acoustic album.. YOu know, like Opeth's damnation.
Less solos, less complicated stuff.
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Surrender To Reason (generic 90s Rush influence)
I felt it had a Permanent Waves vibe to it.
I heard Tom Sawyer the first time I popped DT12 in.
I immediately thought of Limelight at my first listen to The Looking Glass. Surrender To Reason has a more undefined Rush vibe to me.
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Surrender To Reason (generic 90s Rush influence)
I felt it had a Permanent Waves vibe to it.
I heard Tom Sawyer the first time I popped DT12 in.
I immediately thought of Limelight at my first listen to The Looking Glass. Surrender To Reason has a more undefined Rush vibe to me.
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Considering the current directions, influences, and what the new bands are doing, regarding progressive metal music, should DT follow them, showing that they're still the reference point, or they should go ahead without thinking to that?
I don't care, they should follow whatever makes them create amazing music.
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I want a new concept album from them. Not a sequel to Scenes or a similar one in terms of sound/songwriting. I just like the cohesiveness of that album a lot (and of the better concept albums in general) and fully believe they are capable of creating another intriguing story with a fitting soundtrack (or maybe pick an existing story).
The song lengths of DT12 are great and I wish they continue with that (in addition to one or two epics). As for the sound I would like something like DT12 with MUCH better mastering and drum sound. A bit loud and in the face is good, but they went to far and the CD sounds crappy (vinyl is pretty good though). Furthermore, I would love to see Labrie taking some more risks on the album (similar to some parts in IT). He pulls of the Awake songs very well live now, so he should be capable to add some more of that old school DT punch to a few new songs here and there as well. And last but not least: more Jordan action than in DT12.
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I think they should make (almost) acoustic album.. YOu know, like Opeth's damnation.
Less solos, less complicated stuff.
I like this idea
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I think they should make (almost) acoustic album.. YOu know, like Opeth's damnation.
Less solos, less complicated stuff.
A full album might be too much, but I'd love it if they put out some kind of semi-acoustic release (EP?) and followed it with an unplugged tour with shows in smaller and more intimate venues.
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I think they should make (almost) acoustic album.. YOu know, like Opeth's damnation.
Less solos, less complicated stuff.
A full album might be too much, but I'd love it if they put out some kind of semi-acoustic release (EP?) and followed it with an unplugged tour with shows in smaller and more intimate venues.
Smaller and more intimate venues work when logistis allowes it. An example close to myself: in 2012 the band was joined by 8 to 9 thousands fan on each date in the major Italian cities. How can you play smaller venues with such a following without increasing the number of dates and thus engorging disproportionately the tour?
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I think they should make (almost) acoustic album.. YOu know, like Opeth's damnation.
Less solos, less complicated stuff.
A full album might be too much, but I'd love it if they put out some kind of semi-acoustic release (EP?) and followed it with an unplugged tour with shows in smaller and more intimate venues.
These words trigger my gag reflex.
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I think they should make (almost) acoustic album.. YOu know, like Opeth's damnation.
Less solos, less complicated stuff.
A full album might be too much, but I'd love it if they put out some kind of semi-acoustic release (EP?) and followed it with an unplugged tour with shows in smaller and more intimate venues.
DT unplugged? :omg: I dunnah brah, that'd be pretty raw for DT, let's just think about it for a second. The extra 'colours' and 'textures' of their music are an essential part of their sound. I can only imagine most songs sounding incomplete but I concede they do have a portion of material that might be suitable for acoustic performances. But most everything else, needs that extra boost for the sound. Eg. a lot of the guitar solos and patches for certain songs. Can you imagine JR using the traditional piano sound for absolutely all of his parts?
I wouldn't be 100% against the idea, and I guess a small EP never harmed anyone. But I believe the idea would be received with skepticism. :P
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Jordan has released (at least?) two albums where he plays nothing but piano. It's not impossible.
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Jordan has released (at least?) two albums where he plays nothing but piano. It's not impossible.
Quite true. Just to clarify, I was referring to playing only piano on already existing songs from the DT catalog. If we're talking an album or EP where they deliberately wrote new acoustic music, that certainly wouldn't be as difficult to imagine. But I still think it'd emphasise the point that JR would be a lot more limited within the context of DTs music, because he plays keyboard, which does have a fundamental difference to a piano. Because it can sound like hundreds of different instruments and that dynamic of being able to use anything that ranges from organs, synths to strings and many more will be a limiting factor for JR and the DT sound.
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Oh, Ok, I thought you were talking about new material.
For the record, I'm not saying they should record an all-acoustic EP/album, I'm just saying it's not impossible.
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Agreed. I just think acoustic music isn't really their thing, it's a flavour they've used occasionally, but I just struggle to imagine the whole thing being the same flavor because variety is their favourite spice and they're not really like a 'typical' rock band (whatever that is) where they can unplug their instruments and it'll still sound similar. I just imagine it sounding incomplete and it's not really something I would look for in DTs music. In fact, if I was looking for a more 'mellow' or 'casual' mood that acoustic songs or performances create, I probably wouldn't choose DTs music because that gives a different experience IMO; but look at me, imposing expectations on how it'd turn out! I'm all for them giving it a go if it's what they wanted to do. :tup
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Jordan has released (at least?) two albums where he plays nothing but piano. It's not impossible.
He's already said that the styles of stuff he does that isn't on a DT album most likely won't be in a DT album.
:dunno:
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I think they should go for something darker and more immersive. SDOIT comes to mind when I say that, but they should shy away from the formulaic wall of sound prog metal whole schtick (well duh that's with this thread is about, but still). Like something abstract that one wouldn't really expect from DT.
That's all pretty broad though :blush I guess I don't really care what sound they go for as long as it has some atmosphere and some darker themes perhaps.
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Symphonic Power Metal amirite?!
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I think if DT really wants to be experimental, what they should do is write the next album, then record it, mix it, and when mastering it, they should turn the entire sound down to zero, so you get 70 minutes of complete silence. The music is still there, it's just completely inaudible. Now THAT'S prog!
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john cage bro
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Who?
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John Cage - 4'33": https://youtu.be/zY7UK-6aaNA
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I think if DT really wants to be experimental, what they should do is write the next album, then record it, mix it, and when mastering it, they should turn the entire sound down to zero, so you get 70 minutes of complete silence. The music is still there, it's just completely inaudible. Now THAT'S prog!
I bet DT geeks would still find a way to recover the songs :lol
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Oh yes. That was quite the piece.
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John Cage - 4'33": https://youtu.be/zY7UK-6aaNA
What the? I don't even. How is that? :tdwn. Pardon my ignorance, but what's it suppose to prove?
Edit: On another note, I stumbled upon a DT fan doing a death metal cover of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUzI3Ui1Eok
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John Cage - 4'33": https://youtu.be/zY7UK-6aaNA
What the? I don't even. How is that? :tdwn. Pardon my ignorance, but what's it suppose to prove?
I see it as a song that was intended to be a challenging performance. You have to do nothing for 4:33. If you make a SINGLE sound, you've played the song incorrectly. It was used as an example during one of my high school music classes to demonstrate the difficulty of being silent on stage when you have no parts to play.
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john cage bro
Who?
(https://www.trmk.org/images/guide/mortal_kombat_1/Johnny%20Cage.jpg)
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What the? I don't even. How is that? :tdwn. Pardon my ignorance, but what's it suppose to prove?
Prove? Nothing. Or maybe that silence actually does not exist. There is many ways to look at it, but two of them might be :
1. It makes you listen to the sounds surrounding the music, the sounds inside the hall. The "musical piece" is not on the stage, but in the hall, with all the micro-sounds people make while listening (+ sounds musicians do that do not belong to the music). It's about moving the hearing from the music to the sounds of the world.
2. It was a joke to make people hate/cringe/laugh.
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Evidently I missed the "Jazzy" side of DT over the years. On a serious note, if they ever did get as experimental as some people want, it would probably be a disaster.
They should keep doing what they've been doing. Every DT album is a bit different. I expect that trend to continue with the next album. I just want to hear great songs and musicians. The one thing I want to hear specifically, which isn't a musical direction, is a drum and/or bass solo in a song.
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What the? I don't even. How is that? :tdwn. Pardon my ignorance, but what's it suppose to prove?
Prove? Nothing. Or maybe that silence actually does not exist. There is many ways to look at it, but two of them might be :
1. It makes you listen to the sounds surrounding the music, the sounds inside the hall. The "musical piece" is not on the stage, but in the hall, with all the micro-sounds people make while listening (+ sounds musicians do that do not belong to the music). It's about moving the hearing from the music to the sounds of the world.
2. It was a joke to make people hate/cringe/laugh.
#1 is correct.
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I think they should make (almost) acoustic album.. YOu know, like Opeth's damnation.
Less solos, less complicated stuff.
A full album might be too much, but I'd love it if they put out some kind of semi-acoustic release (EP?) and followed it with an unplugged tour with shows in smaller and more intimate venues.
DT unplugged? :omg: I dunnah brah, that'd be pretty raw for DT, let's just think about it for a second. The extra 'colours' and 'textures' of their music are an essential part of their sound. I can only imagine most songs sounding incomplete but I concede they do have a portion of material that might be suitable for acoustic performances. But most everything else, needs that extra boost for the sound. Eg. a lot of the guitar solos and patches for certain songs. Can you imagine JR using the traditional piano sound for absolutely all of his parts?
I wouldn't be 100% against the idea, and I guess a small EP never harmed anyone. But I believe the idea would be received with skepticism. :P
I was thinking of something like the '98 fanclub gig that was recorded for 5YIALT - even one show like that would be really cool if they released it in some form. :)
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I think they should make (almost) acoustic album.. YOu know, like Opeth's damnation.
Less solos, less complicated stuff.
A full album might be too much, but I'd love it if they put out some kind of semi-acoustic release (EP?) and followed it with an unplugged tour with shows in smaller and more intimate venues.
DT unplugged? :omg: I dunnah brah, that'd be pretty raw for DT, let's just think about it for a second. The extra 'colours' and 'textures' of their music are an essential part of their sound. I can only imagine most songs sounding incomplete but I concede they do have a portion of material that might be suitable for acoustic performances. But most everything else, needs that extra boost for the sound. Eg. a lot of the guitar solos and patches for certain songs. Can you imagine JR using the traditional piano sound for absolutely all of his parts?
I wouldn't be 100% against the idea, and I guess a small EP never harmed anyone. But I believe the idea would be received with skepticism. :P
I was thinking of something like the '98 fanclub gig that was recorded for 5YIALT - even one show like that would be really cool if they released it in some form. :)
Actually, I don't think DT music is that complex to avoid doing acoustics tbh. I mean Tesseract or Pain of Salvation are way complex, colorful and electric but they still manage to make amazing acoustic renditions.
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I was thinking of something like the '98 fanclub gig that was recorded for 5YIALT - even one show like that would be really cool if they released it in some form. :)
I getcha, it would have been nice to get more video footage from that night. I suppose they were going for a similar thing with that segment of Luna Park with the quartet and playing their songs that were predominantly acoustic guitar and piano based. (WFS/FFH/TSM/BTS)
John Cage - 4'33": https://youtu.be/zY7UK-6aaNA
I love how the "players" can't contain themselves when they're changing the pages and just start coughing and getting as much noise out of their system as possible it would seem. :rollin
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john cage bro
Who?
(https://www.trmk.org/images/guide/mortal_kombat_1/Johnny%20Cage.jpg)
You can't link to it, but yes, Mortal Kombat was the first thing I thought of too.
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I'd like to hear something groovy like Falling into Infinity
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I would like the next album to be a little less metal. ADTOE and DT were great in my opinion, much more in the direction I'd hope they would have taken after SC and BCSL, but I would love if they kept going in that direction. I hope the grunting and rapping never comes back. That might have been Mr. Portnoy's input though.I would like an album with more softer emotional songs. Songs like Surrender To Reason, The Bigger Picture, Illumination Theory, Far From Heaven and Breaking All Illusions. All thoss songs give me chills. So I guess I hope for more exploring in the current direction. Maybe a couple epics on the next album in 12 minute range. More lyrics written by Mr. Myung. Learning to Live and STR from DT12 are some of my favorite DT songs. I also love Mr. Labrie singing style lately. Like he isn't trying to sing out of his range just to fit the song. Meaning he doesn't sound like he's shouting. Ihope this style remains.
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I'd like to hear something groovy like Falling into Infinity
That is certainly one of my favorite aspects of that album, and it would a welcome return.
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It would be really cool for them to go back to a Majesty-esque sound and write more Iron Maiden-ish power prog like Another Won.
But obviously it wouldnt be shitty power prog. Would like to hear James get more ballsy with his range