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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Knguro on August 08, 2014, 11:23:53 AM
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We all know that past days DT used to write stuff based or oriented on mental disorders, religion, philosophy or even esotericism, and now days is more about philantropy and stuff like that. Since it's a posibility that they might do another Full Length concept album and this is just for us to have fun and fill our minds with propably useless hopes about a concept album (haha). What ideas do you guys have or wish them to use for a concept album? GO GO GO!
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To be honest, this wouldn't be my preference.
Having said that, I would prefer that they base the story on something historical, rather than some made-up fantasy/supernatural/horror tripe.
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I really loved the Solitary Shell lyrical concept, so I guess I would love to see an entire album based on the idea of autism (or just deep deep loneliness).
I find this feeling very touching, even heart breaking.
I know Mr. Petrucci can make me cry with this subject :)
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If they ever did another concept album, I'd like it to be a broader, more universal theme. Lyrically, I'm really not a fan of Six Degrees. The lyrics aren't bad but to me they sound like something written by someone who did a lot of research on various mental illnesses without having experience with those things; which is what it was. Scenes is a decent story but I have a hard time connecting to any of the lyrics on it.
So if they were to do something like this again, I'd like something more based on personal experiences. With a theme like on Illumination Theory, which can speak to virtually anyone who listens to it.
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It seems almost impossible to come up with an idea along these lines without being REALLY redundant. For example: a lot of people are hoping/anticipating/wishing for a "Metropolis part 3," either as another album or a single track.
One idea that I had was an album that has more of a common "theme" or "thread" along the lines of Alan Parsons, Pink Floyd, or "Six Degrees" Maybe a collection of songs about different religions, or wars or how various countries were founded. Or different inventions, such as those of Benjamin Franklin. If anyone could make those often boring subjects interesting, or even exciting...
I know a lot of people don't like the whole Sci-fi/horror/dark fantasy thing, but for those of us who do: A collection of songs based on short stories by writers such as H.P. Lovecraft, Stephen King, Clive Barker or Dean Koontz. Or each song could be based on a different story by a different writer, with something linking them together.
Speaking of Mr. King-and I know this has been done before in songs by bands such as The Alarm and Anthrax, but-I wouldn't mind an entire album based on "The Stand."
Or another original story about the conflict between good and evil, along the lines of "In the Presence of Enemies."
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For example: a lot of people are hoping/anticipating/wishing for a "Metropolis part 3," either as another album or a single track.
No, they really aren't.
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To me, if they go back to that well again, it's almost an admission of defeat. I just don't see that being a good idea, and I would be shocked if they did it.
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THAT'S all you got from everything I said?
REALLY?
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To me, if they go back to that well again, it's almost an admission of defeat. I just don't see that being a good idea, and I would be shocked if they did it.
I really don't see it as such a bad thing, I think they do have a good credit to do that again, and for me a safe zone would be something historical as you suggested.
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THAT'S all you got from everything I said?
REALLY?
I wasn't addressing you. I was addressing bosk1, who posted right above me. In particular, I was only addressing "Metropolis 3" which is all he was addressing.
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Would love to see DT getting involved with history and make a concept album about that. And I really don't wish to see more mental disorder/Metropolis-themed/religious conceptual albums. I think they've used those themes fairly much.
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I'd prefer DT stay away from concept albums. I've always viewed the concept as being the weakest part by far of SFAM.
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I'd prefer DT stay away from concept albums. I've always viewed the concept as being the weakest part by far of SFAM.
Petrucci recently said that they'll do another one though. And I'm very excited about it.
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Speaking of Mr. King-and I know this has been done before by bands such as The Alarm and Anthrax, but-I wouldn't mind an entire album based on "The Stand."
If a SK work was to be adapted, "It" or "The Shining" would be the best choices. I never really cared for "The Stand". An album with an original story would be best; something like the Parallax EP/album. The fantasy/horror lyrics on SC are some of my favorites, and I am sure that DT could make such a story work both musically and lyrically.
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I'd prefer DT stay away from concept albums. I've always viewed the concept as being the weakest part by far of SFAM.
Petrucci recently said that they'll do another one though. And I'm very excited about it.
Could you link to that? I don't remember hearing anything about it.
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To me, if they go back to that well again, it's almost an admission of defeat. I just don't see that being a good idea, and I would be shocked if they did it.
I really don't see it as such a bad thing, I think they do have a good credit to do that again, and for me a safe zone would be something historical as you suggested.
I would't hate it if they DID do that, but I would rather see them move on to something else. Still, it might be interesting to see what they would come up with. I THINK Nicholas gets killed (murdered) at the end of "Scenes," so he/she would probably have to be reincarnated again. Maybe this time the story could have a happy ending, not just the same crap happening over and over again.
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The idea of wars across human history that someone suggested is really doing its place in my head right now!
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THAT'S all you got from everything I said?
REALLY?
I wasn't addressing you. I was addressing bosk1, who posted right above me. In particular, I was only addressing "Metropolis 3" which is all he was addressing.
Sorry, I was talking to HIM as well.
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THAT'S all you got from everything I said?
REALLY?
I wasn't addressing you. I was addressing bosk1, who posted right above me. In particular, I was only addressing "Metropolis 3" which is all he was addressing.
Sorry, I was talking to HIM as well.
OK. If you are going to address someone who wasn't directly above you, it might be better to address them by name or to quote what they said.
But even so, why the reaction to his post?
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I'd prefer DT stay away from concept albums. I've always viewed the concept as being the weakest part by far of SFAM.
Petrucci recently said that they'll do another one though. And I'm very excited about it.
Could you link to that? I don't remember hearing anything about it.
yeah i recall the same thing, but not remember where, all i remember is that it was not to long ago.
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I'd prefer DT stay away from concept albums. I've always viewed the concept as being the weakest part by far of SFAM.
Petrucci recently said that they'll do another one though. And I'm very excited about it.
Could you link to that? I don't remember hearing anything about it.
From here: https://rockbook.hu/hirek/john-petrucci-interview-label-didnt-have-influence-falling-infinity-album
"Rockbook: - Are you planning any more concept albums, like ’Scenes From A Memory’?
John Petrucci: - I’m sure that’s something we’ll do at some point. Yeah."
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To be fair, that doesn't sound like a commitment or a definite plan. It sounds like a way to gracefully move to the next question.
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Album 13 = 8 + 5.
Octavarium Plus Scenes From A Memory joint sequel / concept mash up bonkers crazy double album. You buy it !
" Triskaidekaphobia " - The Fear of 13.
Will be a 13 track album split up into five pairs of songs with a 3 track Suite at the end.
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To be fair, that doesn't sound like a commitment or a definite plan. It sounds like a way to gracefully move to the next question.
Probably, but the fact is that he said yes, and that he is certain about it. :)
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Album 13 = 8 + 5.
Octavarium Plus Scenes From A Memory joint sequel / concept mash up bonkers crazy double album. You buy it !
" Triskaidekaphobia " - The Fear of 13.
Will be a 13 track album split up into five pairs of songs with a 3 track Suite at the end.
Holy shit!
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Album 13 = 8 + 5.
Octavarium Plus Scenes From A Memory joint sequel / concept mash up bonkers crazy double album. You buy it !
" Triskaidekaphobia " - The Fear of 13.
Will be a 13 track album split up into five pairs of songs with a 3 track Suite at the end.
Oh man the craziest thing I've heard this week :lol
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NO YOU"RE STUPID!!!!!!
:metal
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Album 13 = 8 + 5.
Octavarium Plus Scenes From A Memory joint sequel / concept mash up bonkers crazy double album. You buy it !
" Triskaidekaphobia " - The Fear of 13.
Will be a 13 track album split up into five pairs of songs with a 3 track Suite at the end.
Since it IS number 13, how about THIS for a concept: A collection of songs about superstitions and phobias.
This idea is SO much fun to play with!
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DT's career was on the brink of extinction when they decided to go all out, to write and produce SFAM themselves. It was a huge risk that ended being worth it. I don't think they would put themselves through that again when SFAM is just fine by itself and doesn't need a follow up. The risk would be even greater at this point.
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DT's career was on the brink of extinction when they decided to go all out, to write and produce SFAM themselves. It was a huge risk that ended being worth it. I don't think they would put themselves through that again when SFAM is just fine by itself and doesn't need a follow up. The risk would be even greater at this point.
Agree, but what about SDoIT or Octavarium?
or do you mean Metropolis part 3?
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SDOIT and 8VM are not really concept albums. They are more of a string of ideas within a main theme. I was more or less eluding to the Metro 3 idea but I think the concept format in which they did SFAM would most likely not happen again. Then again, who knows? I could be wrong.
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As much as I like fantasy elements, I will admit John Petrucci isn't that great at writing them. I mean, I love The Killing Hand, Forsaken, and every other fantasy lyric he wrote, in terms of having a cool song with good lyrics, but from a storytelling perspective, they leave a lot to be desired. I don't know if I'd want to have a concept album based on history though. But maybe if it was a more straight forward piece of fiction, it'd be better. Like, if they took the murder mystery idea of SFAM and just ran with something like that. (Except that's been done already.) But even something along the lines of Bridges in the Sky, something about one man's spiritual quest, I think would be really cool.
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Album 13 = 8 + 5.
Octavarium Plus Scenes From A Memory joint sequel / concept mash up bonkers crazy double album. You buy it !
" Triskaidekaphobia " - The Fear of 13.
Will be a 13 track album split up into five pairs of songs with a 3 track Suite at the end.
Since it IS number 13, how about THIS for a concept: A collection of songs about superstitions and phobias.
(This idea is SO much fun to play with!)
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I can't imagine songs about superstitions being all that interesting.
Unless it's Fear of the Dark.
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I can't imagine songs about superstitions being all that interesting.
Unless it's Fear of the Dark.
"Don't let the black cat cross the crooked step!"
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OK. If you are going to address someone who wasn't directly above you, it might be better to address them by name or to quote what they said.
But even so, why the reaction to his post?
[/quote]
Because I was hoping to get a reaction to some of my other ideas, even a negative one, instead of just poo-pooing or rejecting the idea of "M#3."
Personally I'm pretty much 50/50 on the idea. Maybe it's a good one, maybe not.
However, I was on some website-it might even have been DT's official-a while before "12" came out, and someone issued a challenge for people to come up with cover art and an imaginary track listing for the new album. There was some good stuff in there. Anyway at least ONE of the participants included "Metropolis pt. 3" as one of the proposed songs, and some of the people on this thread seem to be strongly supporting the idea as well. So it DOES seem to be something that at least SOME people want.
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You know, the more I see your broken quotes and the way you post, it seems as though you just want attention whether it's negative or positive.
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Personally, I wouldn't want Metropolis Part 3, but I am pretty sure that there are a hell of a lot of people out there who would.
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You know, the more I see your broken quotes and the way you post, it seems as though you just want attention whether it's negative or positive.
This is how you quote.
You hit the "Quote" button. Then, anything you want to type, you type after the final "[/quote]". Then you hit the "Post" button.
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From the look of chaos' post, it looks like he was trying to remove part of the quote, but removed the opening tag by accident.
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From the look of chaos' post, it looks like he was trying to remove part of the quote, but removed the opening tag by accident.
Hmm.
OK, don't do that.
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What do you mean exactly as concept album?
To be really precise, they NEVER did a real concept album, in fact:
SFAM is not at all, is a rock opera instead;
SDOIT disc 2 is a suite, which if left alone would have been a concept album, or sort of (usually CA are not one single suite), but then we have disc 1 which has nothing to do with disc 2, then no.
Octavarium is a concept only in musical terms, but the concept in terms of lyrics is simply non existing.
So if you are referring to a first-time-ever concept album, as they already covered extensively mental disorder, which is very intriguing although not new, there are some ideas they could work on, eg being # 13 an album with songs inspired by premium horror/therror stories (various writers, one novel for each song), but it's not us deciding on this, guess JP drives the whole thing, as always.
Same if you mean sonething like SFAM, so not a CA but a Rock Opera (I already covered this in another topic). This would really depend on JP inspiration by reading a book or watching a movie which sould inspire him... Something about science-fiction would be cool. And what about Kafka? Inventing from scratch is a huge risk...
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Same if you mean sonething like SFAM, so not a CA but a Rock Opera (I already covered this in another topic). This would really depend on JP inspiration by reading a book or watching a movie which sould inspire him... Something about science-fiction would be cool. And what about Kafka? Inventing from scratch is a huge risk...
Regardless of semantics, having an album that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by concept album. Whether this is correct or not, it's a safe bet that that's what is meant.
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"A concept album is a studio album where all musical or lyrical ideas contribute to a single overall theme or unified story."
That's from wikipedia and it's as good a definition as any. SFAM is most definitely a concept album.
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"A concept album is a studio album where all musical or lyrical ideas contribute to a single overall theme or unified story."
That's from wikipedia and it's as good a definition as any. SFAM is most definitely a concept album.
As is Octavarium. :neverusethis:
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What do you mean exactly as concept album?
To be really precise, they NEVER did a real concept album, in fact:
SFAM is not at all, is a rock opera instead;
SDOIT disc 2 is a suite, which if left alone would have been a concept album, or sort of (usually CA are not one single suite), but then we have disc 1 which has nothing to do with disc 2, then no.
Octavarium is a concept only in musical terms, but the concept in terms of lyrics is simply non existing.
So if you are referring to a first-time-ever concept album, as they already covered extensively mental disorder, which is very intriguing although not new, there are some ideas they could work on, eg being # 13 an album with songs inspired by premium horror/therror stories (various writers, one novel for each song), but it's not us deciding on this, guess JP drives the whole thing, as always.
Same if you mean sonething like SFAM, so not a CA but a Rock Opera (I already covered this in another topic). This would really depend on JP inspiration by reading a book or watching a movie which sould inspire him... Something about science-fiction would be cool. And what about Kafka? Inventing from scratch is a huge risk...
Your post is a little confusing, but I think the GIST of what you're saying is that A CONCEPT album and an album that tells a story are two different things. But it looks like the definition of "concept album" has been broadened to INCLUDE a cohesive story line as well.
So maybe when I said "let's do an album with a theme instead of a concept" I was contradicting myself.
Oh well.
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Your post is a little confusing
:lol
Sorry. I need a nap.
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This is how you quote.
You hit the "Quote" button. Then, anything you want to type, you type after the final "[/ quote]". Then you hit the "Post" button.
The part I never understood in this is, when you the Post button, the next thing you see on the screen is your own post. How can you possibly miss that it's scrwed up?!
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"A concept album is a studio album where all musical or lyrical ideas contribute to a single overall theme or unified story."
That's from wikipedia and it's as good a definition as any. SFAM is most definitely a concept album.
As is Octavarium. :neverusethis:
As is ADTOE.... According to JP.
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The next Metallica is a concept album as they're struggling with the whole "concept" of an "album".
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Same if you mean sonething like SFAM, so not a CA but a Rock Opera (I already covered this in another topic). This would really depend on JP inspiration by reading a book or watching a movie which sould inspire him... Something about science-fiction would be cool. And what about Kafka? Inventing from scratch is a huge risk...
Regardless of semantics, having an album that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by concept album. Whether this is correct or not, it's a safe bet that that's what is meant.
Ok, now please explain me the difference between concept album and rock opera. In the 70s we had a clear vision about the HUGE difference between the 2 things, eg Wish you Were Here vs The Wall.
For what I always knew in my life since a teenager having an albun that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by Rock Opera. Other examples? Tommy, Quadrophenia, the Lamb Lies down on Broadway, enough?
Finally, if your definition is correct, instead, where is the single plot in 8VM? And in ADTOE?
For what I understand, sounds like the definition of Rock Opera is not cool anymore, and the concept album in now an overarching term that includes everything that is NOT a mere collection of songs.
If so, it's definitely WRONG, no matter what wikipedia or whoever claims, because it's putting together apples and oranges (to stay on a PF line ;D ).
PS
Sorry if sometimes I don't seem 100% clear, I' m not native English speaker, pls bear with me (like I do with you when you write some never-heard idioms or acronysm etc).
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Ok, now please explain me the difference between concept album and rock opera. In the 70s we had a clear vision about the HUGE difference between the 2 things, eg Wish you Were Here vs The Wall.
For what I always knew in my life since a teenager having an albun that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by Rock Opera. Other examples? Tommy, Quadrophenia, the Lamb Lies down on Broadway, enough?
Finally, if your definition is correct, instead, where is the single plot in 8VM? And in ADTOE?
For what I understand, sounds like the definition of Rock Opera is not cool anymore, and the concept album in now an overarching term that includes everything that is NOT a mere collection of songs.
If so, it's definitely WRONG, no matter what wikipedia or whoever claims, because it's putting together apples and oranges (to stay on a PF line ;D ).
PS
Sorry if sometimes I don't seem 100% clear, I' m not native English speaker, pls bear with me (like I do with you when you write some never-heard idioms or acronysm etc).
Okay, well, what if we're not talking about Rock or Metal? What if there's a Pop or Jazz or Country album that has a storyline? You can't really call them "Rock" operas. Would they then be Country Opera, Jazz Opera, Pop Opera (Popera?)?
I'd say if anything, a Rock Opera is one possible sub-classification of a concept album.
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myth would be awesome. Maybe a story of Greek Gods.
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Can we just get back to talking about what we would want our concept to be...?...
...Didn't think so.
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Can we just get back to talking about what we would want our concept to be...?...
...Didn't think so.
So what are everyone's thoughts on DT12 a year later ?
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myth would be awesome. Maybe a story of Greek Gods.
Why would JP write an autobiographical album?
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Same if you mean sonething like SFAM, so not a CA but a Rock Opera (I already covered this in another topic). This would really depend on JP inspiration by reading a book or watching a movie which sould inspire him... Something about science-fiction would be cool. And what about Kafka? Inventing from scratch is a huge risk...
Regardless of semantics, having an album that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by concept album. Whether this is correct or not, it's a safe bet that that's what is meant.
Ok, now please explain me the difference between concept album and rock opera. In the 70s we had a clear vision about the HUGE difference between the 2 things, eg Wish you Were Here vs The Wall.
For what I always knew in my life since a teenager having an albun that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by Rock Opera. Other examples? Tommy, Quadrophenia, the Lamb Lies down on Broadway, enough?
Finally, if your definition is correct, instead, where is the single plot in 8VM? And in ADTOE?
For what I understand, sounds like the definition of Rock Opera is not cool anymore, and the concept album in now an overarching term that includes everything that is NOT a mere collection of songs.
If so, it's definitely WRONG, no matter what wikipedia or whoever claims, because it's putting together apples and oranges (to stay on a PF line ;D ).
PS
Sorry if sometimes I don't seem 100% clear, I' m not native English speaker, pls bear with me (like I do with you when you write some never-heard idioms or acronysm etc).
Although there are subtle differences, for most intents and purposes, consider "concept album" and "rock opera" to be synonymous. Dream Theater has one and only one concept album: SFAM. It can be argued that they have several albums that contain running themes or concepts, such as Octavarium, for example. But that is not up for debate here. It has been done in other threads and is fully explained in the forum FAQ and definitions threat. Please read those if you have any questions, but please do NOT continue to take this thread off topic with that debate. This is not the place for it. Thanks.
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Can we just get back to talking about what we would want our concept to be...?...
...Didn't think so.
So what are everyone's thoughts on DT12 a year later ?
I thought I read that somewhere that Awake was a concept album.
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Ok, now please explain me the difference between concept album and rock opera. In the 70s we had a clear vision about the HUGE difference between the 2 things, eg Wish you Were Here vs The Wall.
For what I always knew in my life since a teenager having an albun that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by Rock Opera. Other examples? Tommy, Quadrophenia, the Lamb Lies down on Broadway, enough?
Finally, if your definition is correct, instead, where is the single plot in 8VM? And in ADTOE?
For what I understand, sounds like the definition of Rock Opera is not cool anymore, and the concept album in now an overarching term that includes everything that is NOT a mere collection of songs.
If so, it's definitely WRONG, no matter what wikipedia or whoever claims, because it's putting together apples and oranges (to stay on a PF line ;D ).
PS
Sorry if sometimes I don't seem 100% clear, I' m not native English speaker, pls bear with me (like I do with you when you write some never-heard idioms or acronysm etc).
Okay, well, what if we're not talking about Rock or Metal? What if there's a Pop or Jazz or Country album that has a storyline? You can't really call them "Rock" operas. Would they then be Country Opera, Jazz Opera, Pop Opera (Popera?)?
I'd say if anything, a Rock Opera is one possible sub-classification of a concept album.
Interesting. But I cannot remember anything like that, none of these has ever produced anything with a single story-line. Well, pop is such a broad definition that you could put almost anything under it, even any BW or WE musical. In that case, yes, say Phantom of the Opera is Popopera :lol
RO as sub-category of CA? Mmmhhhh, not sure, could be... In my view they are 2 different things, but this may be me, you know, I see the "SFAM is a concept album" statement like a diminishing, rock opera is much more than concept album. Maybe is this something to do with where I come from? ;D
Still, maybe my bad English comprehension (which Im trying to improve with these few weeks I'm spending in the London area), but I haven't got it yet 100%: the topic is about songs just connected by a theme, or single-line plot lyrics instead (for that famous future DT release)? Or both?
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Further off topic posts will begin receiving warnings/bans. Thanks.
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Further off topic posts will begin receiving warnings/bans. Thanks.
How about a concept album where none of the songs are related thematically lyrically or musically ?
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OK, my concept album would be: A guy travels back in time, and the different songs are in the style of the different eras. I think it would be really cool to hear what DT would do to a baroque song, or a jazz tune, or a 70s hippie song!
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Further off topic posts will begin receiving warnings/bans. Thanks.
Ok. sorry, so your post too late.
Still, my last question about the aim of this topic is 100% in topic, and clarifying it would help all.
bosk1 with your reply to my post, do I understand well that here we have all to agree that the author of the topic was asking about a single-story line album, like SFAM?
If so, many here, starting with me, would have to change their reply...
mmmhhh... indeed Kafka's Castle would be something good...
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OK, my concept album would be: A guy travels back in time, and the different songs are in the style of the different eras. I think it would be really cool to hear what DT would do to a baroque song, or a jazz tune, or a 70s hippie song!
One song that lasts the entirety of a CD.
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Although there are subtle differences, for most intents and purposes, consider "concept album" and "rock opera" to be synonymous. Dream Theater has one and only one concept album: SFAM. It can be argued that they have several albums that contain running themes or concepts, such as Octavarium, for example. But that is not up for debate here. It has been done in other threads and is fully explained in the forum FAQ and definitions threat. Please read those if you have any questions, but please do NOT continue to take this thread off topic with that debate. This is not the place for it. Thanks.
[/quote]
I'm glad you said that. The Who's "Tommy" would be a good example of that, because I always remember it being called a "rock opera" but it is still very much a concept album, because of the story.
The changing terminology also reminds of how PROGRESSIVE rock used to be called "art-rock."
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OK, my concept album would be: A guy travels back in time, and the different songs are in the style of the different eras. I think it would be really cool to hear what DT would do to a baroque song, or a jazz tune, or a 70s hippie song!
This would actually be really cool. By any band really. Concept albums are so stale these days, lyrically. I can't think of a modern concept album with a concept that really grabbed me the way the older ones did, but something like this certainly could.
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An exploration of the history of music ITSELF.
Brilliant!
And I think they would do it better than most.
Need I say why?
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OK, my concept album would be: A guy travels back in time, and the different songs are in the style of the different eras. I think it would be really cool to hear what DT would do to a baroque song, or a jazz tune, or a 70s hippie song!
That sounds amazing! I recall asking Jordan what are his thoughts about Latin Jazz, he told me that for him is a very comlex and amazing genre, and if he could have a year off just to go through it and learn it properly he would definitely do it! I imagine that fiting somewhere in this concept album you suggest, something like In The Name of God but with a well defined Latin jazz groove during the instrumental section.
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Ok, now please explain me the difference between concept album and rock opera.
Rock opera is where the lyrics consist entirely of dialogue, much like classical opera. The singers assume the roles of characters and act out the story through their music and voices.
Concept album is simply songs with a linked theme.
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Ok, now please explain me the difference between concept album and rock opera.
Rock opera is where the lyrics consist entirely of dialogue, much like classical opera. The singers assume the roles of characters and act out the story through their music and voices.
Concept album is simply songs with a linked theme.
Agree 90%. Wouldn't say "entirely" as there is always self-reflection (no real dialogue) or narration of events.
Coming back to the topic, would it be better to take the theme from an existing story (book, movie), as I believe, or do you think JP could take the risk to invent from scratch a whole story?
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I try to help Bosk by explicitly copying from DTF rules:
Definitions
Note: These definitions are provided to improve discussions within the forum by using standardized terms with which to discuss music. We are not asking that you agree with these definitions, and we are not saying that they are technically "right". We are however saying that for reasons of clarity inside this forum you are to use the following terms as they are defined below.
Concept Album - This is an album that follows a storyline or a narrative.
Rock Opera - This is a concept album in which most or all of the lyrics are pieces of dialogue.
Themed or Thematic Album - An album which sees a common theme, either musical, lyrical, or both, running throughout the entire album.
Not that I agree, but let's stick to these for future developements of this topic.
Another idea for a "concept" under the above definition would the Odissey. Great theme. I think JP could do grat things with it.
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I can't come up with something from the top of my head, but a Metropolis Part 3 would get me interested.
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In order to bring his father back to life, Nicolas's's's son must travel to 1928 to stop the murder of Victoria.
COMING SOON IN 3D!
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Rock Opera - This is a concept album in which most or all of the lyrics are pieces of dialogue.
I really don't mean to keep dwelling on this, but I actually thought about this yesterday, and this is exactly why I think SFAM does NOT qualify as a Rock Opera. As soon as you mentioned Phantom of the Opera.
SFAM might follow a story, but it's not written like dialogue (or like an Opera) at all. It's written like narration, usually from the perspective of only one person, and even when he's dealing with someone else, as in Fatal Tragedy. He has to mention that he did this and did that, and he met an older man, and if we were to actually have it be like an Opera, let's say, "Scenes From A Memory The Musical" it would be awful. You'd have the Nicholas character standing there singing about what happened, rather than actually showing that it happened.
It works for the album, because you can listen to it and know exactly who the character is talking to, or what is happening (assuming you understand what JLB is singing :lol ), but if you were to try and turn it into an actual opera, it would come off more like a one man show, or a bunch of miming with narration over it.
I've heard some albums that are actually advertised as "Rock Operas" and they've always involved a number of guest singers, and everyone was always singing their own dialogue. Think Ayreon.
That being said, I'd love to see DT tackle an actual Rock Opera. To have not only a concept album, but one made up entirely of dialogue where they invited some guest vocalists to do different characters. Give me some time, and I'll come up with an idea for a DT Rock Opera, and pick some artists I wouldn't mind hearing on it.
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In order to bring his father back to life, Nicolas's's's son must travel to 1928 to stop the murder of Victoria.
COMING SOON IN 3D!
Starring Nicolas Cage & Victoria Beckham.
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In order to bring his father back to life, Nicolas's's's son must travel to 1928 to stop the murder of Victoria.
COMING SOON IN 3D!
Starring Nicolas Cage & Victoria Beckham.
You just have to shoot wind at Victoria to kill her.
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I don't care whether there's a concept or not, as long as the music is good. However, even though I don't like Six Degrees as a song, it'd be interesting if DT took that kind of thematic approach and made a full album with multiple stories revolving around the same concept. I'd prefer that to a straightforward storyline in vein of Scenes.
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In order to bring his father back to life, Nicolas's's's son must travel to 1928 to stop the murder of Victoria.
COMING SOON IN 3D!
Starring Nicolas Cage & Victoria Beckham.
You just have to shoot wind at Victoria to kill her.
Or feed her.
Or turn off Melodyne.
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I don't care whether there's a concept or not, as long as the music is good. However, even though I don't like Six Degrees as a song, it'd be interesting if DT took that kind of thematic approach and made a full album with multiple stories revolving around the same concept. I'd prefer that to a straightforward storyline in vein of Scenes.
Well. The one good thing about that is if you want to play a song for someone, you don't need to explain to them the storyline, because even though they're thematically linked, all the songs would still be their own self contained pieces of music.
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(https://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss308/Zulan8r/6d7dba52-4aa1-4121-b3d2-dbdeafbde0b4_zps68f1afc3.jpg) (https://s586.photobucket.com/user/Zulan8r/media/6d7dba52-4aa1-4121-b3d2-dbdeafbde0b4_zps68f1afc3.jpg.html)
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BAD kitty!
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*snip*
:rollin
Their next album could have 13 tracks; the first 12 emulate the general style of the corresponding album while incorporating themes that are reprised in the closer. Lyrically, it could tell a coming of age story in which the main character learns to stop pondering the past and decides to move forward.
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How about the band doing a concept album about itself?
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How about the band doing a concept album about itself?
Sounds pretentious.
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How about the band doing a concept album about itself?
Sounds pretentious.
As if doing a concept album at all wasn't pretentious enough. :neverusethis:
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How about the band doing a concept album about itself?
Sounds pretentious.
As if doing a concept album at all wasn't pretentious enough. :neverusethis:
Well, that goes without saying. It's a common criticism of prog in general, and of concept albums in particular. Throw in the idea of doing a concept album about yourself and you are verging on heretofore unknown levels of conceit and ego explosion.
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How about the band doing a concept album about itself?
Sounds pretentious.
As if doing a concept album at all wasn't pretentious enough. :neverusethis:
Well, that goes without saying. It's a common criticism of prog in general, and of concept albums in particular. Throw in the idea of doing a concept album about yourself and you are verging on heretofore unknown levels of conceit and ego explosion.
And there's the album name! :lol
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Are you saying they've NEVER done ANYTHING that was pretentious BEFORE?
oh PLEASE!!!
What I MEANT to say was: An album that would chronicle their musical AND personal history.
Like maybe each ONE of them, including Mike M., Jordan, and John M. could write some lyrics about how they got started, why each of them is there now, and how they feel about it, that sort of thing.
And maybe they could do a song--or songs-about what happened with Chris Collins, Charlie, Kevin M., Derek and Mike P.
I'm also sure they could easily tie it together with two or three instrumentals that would reflect their musical influences.
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And maybe they could do a song--or songs-about what happened with Chris Collins, Charlie, Kevin M., Derek and Mike P.
Not sure why they would want to rehash all that. Most of what happened is already in the book "Lifting Shadows" anyway. Doesn't seem like good song writing material.
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Haven't had the pleasure of reading the book yet.
They could just as easily leave that part out.
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Are you saying they've NEVER done ANYTHING that was pretentious BEFORE?
I don't know, let me look back and check to see if that was what I said.
*reads post*
No, I didn't say that. But certainly nothing to the level you are suggesting.
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Is it REALLY such a TERRIBLE idea?
There's no doubt in my mind that a LOT of people would love it!
But that doesn't mean it would be universally recieved.
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I think if DT were to make an autobiographical album, it would be better if it was done in a more vague and personal way, about the key moments in their career, rather than just "Here's what happened, and here's what happened next."
For example, with JLB joining the band, they could basically write a song about being off to a rocky start, with a lot of unfulfilled promises, but finding new light with a sort of a new beginning accompanied by a new 'brother' within the band.
With KM's departure, the song could be about reaching a wonderful point in one's life, being on top of the world, only to have someone who's important to you reveal that they don't see it the same way, and don't want to be a part of this dream anymore, and maybe their departure becoming a premonition of dark times ahead.
Things like that, general concepts that express the feelings and events of what happened within the band, without outright saying, "Then Kevin left and we were all upset," kind of thing.
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All good points "Pretender."
It ALSO just occurred to me that "Smoke on the Water" by Deep Purple and "Kid Gloves" by Rush are good examples of songs about the difficulties that bands face when putting an album together. Maybe something like that could be worked into it.
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Well, the interesting thing about Smoke On The Water is that in spite of the subject matter of the song, it's still very groovy and fun, and has a sense of playfulness about it. Which, now that I think about it, a lot of DT songs share that sentiment. I mean, look at The Enemy Inside and its instrumental breakdown, or the ragtime solo in The Dance Of Eternity.
So yeah, I suppose it could work for some of the songs.
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I think if DT were to make an autobiographical album[...]
Then they could call it "Dream Theater"! Why stop with one self titled album? :biggrin:
On a more serious note, I would not mind that. It could work out really well musically. As long as the lyrics are less explicit and narrative than much of, let's say, SFaM and BC&SL, it would not come across as pretentious.
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I think if DT were to make an autobiographical album[...]
Then they could call it "Dream Theater"! Why stop with one self titled album? :biggrin:
Hey, if Duran Duran can release 2 self-titled albums, why not DT? ;D
They could be just like Duran Duran and call the second one "The Wedding Album" because having a band is like a marriage. :rollin
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It ALSO just occurred to me that "Smoke on the Water" by Deep Purple and "Kid Gloves" by Rush are good examples of songs about the difficulties that bands face when putting an album together. Maybe something like that could be worked into it.
There are a lot of songs based on personal experiences, even many by DT (including but not at all limited to Another Day, Space Dye Vest, Take Away My Pain, The 12SS, A Nightmare to Remember, The Count of Tuscany), but to have an entire album on themselves goes beyond simply drawing on real life experience to the point of self indulgence.
Some of their songs are more direct than others with their subject matter, but to base a song or album on something like that now would be a big ol' can of worms, to say the least.
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Is it REALLY such a TERRIBLE idea?
I certainly think so. But your opinions are your opinions.
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I suppose my suggestion below is not a concept album, since it does not have a singular narrative -- but i still group themed albums and concept albums together in a general sense, so I'll submit the following in any case. Just wrote it as i thought it up, so it is not vetted against any ideas already existing out there:
Shades of Futures Past
Each song represents an album from DT’s catalog. What if DT revisited their musical mindset and approach used on each album and tried to recapture that same spirit in NEW songs. The goal is to create a retrospective of DT’s career set in the present tense – captures the span of DT’s career in one listening experience, a 13 track album transitioning the past into the future. TRACKLIST:
Bonus Track:
Impulse Control: What if DT attempted to write a song like “Another Won” in 2015-- a short overtly progressive song that throws many expected twists. The brash playfulness and unapologetic daring of Majesty interpreted by the current lineup.
1. Particle Syndrome: Demonstrates DT’s signature Metallica meets Rush sound – as hinted in WDADU. Mostly in a major key.
2. Parallax Prism - Part 1: JLB soars and JP blazes new guitar riffs in the I&W tradition.
3. Colossus: Seven string wickedness – reminiscent of the dark frontiers explored on Awake. Stomping, straightforward and catchy.
4. Retroscopic: Composition very forward thinking (sc-fi sounding) but the track is recorded on vintage instruments. JP and JR step out of their comfort zone by experimenting with Wurlitzers and Gibsons – and surely JM can reprise the Chapman Stick.
5. Parallax Prism - Part 2: A 15 minute track that expands the ideas presented in Part 1. Verses split amongst 3 lyricists (sound familiar?)
6. Living in Latitude: Themes touch on recognizing and overcoming one’s inner struggles.
7. Trepanning the Brain: JP and JR take another stab at the twin metal guitar approach. Metal on metal (yes, an Anvil reference).
8. The Symmetry Imperfect: This song will end where it began. Obviously.
9. Here There Be Monsters: Fanciful lyrics of some strange and imagined world. A short tale of the beyond.
10. Stage Fright: Cool name for a song, but also could describe a real life incident.
11. Racing The Horizon: Song is upbeat, uptempo, but sort of sounds like track 2. Just kidding. It’s a Mangini showstopper.
12. Foreshadow: A personal introspective song about the DT experience and looking ahead.
13. Futurum Inexplorata: The future is unknown (Latin translation) – but the sound is now. Learning from the past to be better prepared to embrace the future. Takes us to new heights and the next phase of DT’s sonic story.
The bonus track is part of a LIMITED special edition, and yes, it appears as the first song on these discs because its placement represents the Majesty demo.
The theme would be readily apparent to us hardcore fans as a special treat, but the casual listener would just consider it DT's next record.
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*snip*
That is like my suggestion, but much more thought out and detailed. I like it. :tup
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Pretty sure every time we do a " name the next DT album & songs " - someone will always postulate it will be a concept album about their career ;D
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*snip*
That is like my suggestion, but much more thought out and detailed. I like it. :tup
Aha, so it is! I posted my suggestion before bothering to read the thread, so that is a funny coincidence. Or is it? Like Kowtow said, I guess a lot of fans gravitate toward a "retrospective" theme.
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Something this complex, detailed and involved would almost CERTAINLY have to be another DOUBLE album.
Not that I'm complaining.
I would also hope that some-preferably three-of the tracks would be instrumentals.
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Something this complex, detailed and involved would almost CERTAINLY have to be another DOUBLE album.
Not that I'm complaining.
Certainly; to continue the I&W/ADToE and Awake/DT12 comparisons, DT13 would be the double album that FII was meant to be.
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I wish they would release all of those FII tracks.
Maybe as part of the box set that they SHOULD have put out...?...
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I wish they would release all of those FII tracks.
They did with the Ytse Jam FII release. Plus the fan club CD Cleaning Out the Closet.
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I wish they would release all of those FII tracks.
They did with the Ytse Jam FII release. Plus the fan club CD Cleaning Out the Closet.
Yes. I'm trying to be helpful because I was in the same situation about FII. With the Ytse Jam release and CoTC we have everything we need to address this era in DT history.
Shaossystem - Have your heard these? If so, how do they compare? We've already has other people comment on all of this, and I'm curious what you think.
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Something this complex, detailed and involved would almost CERTAINLY have to be another DOUBLE album.
Not that I'm complaining.
Certainly; to continue the I&W/ADToE and Awake/DT12 comparisons, DT13 would be the double album that FII was meant to be.
There is no Awake/DT12 comparison, but for the fact there's an IAW/ADTOE comparison, which shouldn't exist either, as 95% of that was forced BS because some guy noticed the other 5% of coincidences. :lol
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Something this complex, detailed and involved would almost CERTAINLY have to be another DOUBLE album.
Not that I'm complaining.
Certainly; to continue the I&W/ADToE and Awake/DT12 comparisons, DT13 would be the double album that FII was meant to be.
There is no Awake/DT12 comparison, but for the fact there's an IAW/ADTOE comparison, which shouldn't exist either, as 95% of that was forced BS because some guy noticed the other 5% of coincidences. :lol
Yeah, I don't see any Awake/DT12 comparison, nor have I really heard much about it. However, the I&W/ADTOE comparison has been valid since day one, and I think it makes ADTOE awesome from a compositional standpoint, but there are other many great reasons to listen to ADOTE for its other merits. I see no reason why we can't enjoy both viewpoints.
To take this back on topic, yeah, it would be nice if DT13 were 13 tracks released as a double album using one of the concepts or themes mentioned in this thread.
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I think if DT were to make an autobiographical album, it would be better if it was done in a more vague and personal way, about the key moments in their career, rather than just "Here's what happened, and here's what happened next."
Of course, DT has dabbled in this realm before. Read the lyrics to 6:00, Innocence Faded, Raise The Knife and Where Are You Now -- all songs which reference (sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly) friction between the band members. Of course, in a more general sense, WDADU has plenty of autobiographical moments detailing the struggles of a growing band.
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Of course, DT has dabbled in this realm before. Read the lyrics to 6:00, Innocence Faded, Raise The Knife and Where Are You Now -- all songs which reference (sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly) friction between the band members. Of course, in a more general sense, WDADU has plenty of autobiographical moments detailing the struggles of a growing band.
Exactly, and that's my point. Those songs have much stronger lyrics than, "Several years ago in a foreign town, far away from home, I met the count of tuscany."
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Of course, DT has dabbled in this realm before. Read the lyrics to 6:00, Innocence Faded, Raise The Knife and Where Are You Now -- all songs which reference (sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly) friction between the band members. Of course, in a more general sense, WDADU has plenty of autobiographical moments detailing the struggles of a growing band.
Exactly, and that's my point. Those songs have much stronger lyrics than, "Several years ago in a foreign town, far away from home, I met the count of tuscany."
And as the comparative quality of those songs prove, lyrics do not make a song. :biggrin:
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Niccolò Capponi: The Fables and the Tales part II
:millahhhh
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I just thought of another one: An album chronicling the origins and adventures of the N.A.D.S.!
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Of course, DT has dabbled in this realm before. Read the lyrics to 6:00, Innocence Faded, Raise The Knife and Where Are You Now -- all songs which reference (sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly) friction between the band members. Of course, in a more general sense, WDADU has plenty of autobiographical moments detailing the struggles of a growing band.
Exactly, and that's my point. Those songs have much stronger lyrics than, "Several years ago in a foreign town, far away from home, I met the count of tuscany."
And as the comparative quality of those songs prove, lyrics do not make a song. :biggrin:
I agree with the Blobster.
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And as the comparative quality of those songs prove, lyrics do not make a song. :biggrin:
First of all, are you saying that good lyrics and good music have to be mutually exclusive?
And second, Raise The Knife > The Count of Tuscany ;)
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Being kinda of a WWII History buff and a huge fan of the Band of Brothers mini series I believe a Concept album about WWII may be cool if done correctly..I started writing a Concept album called "Battered Bastards of Bastogne" based off a book about paratroopers in the Battle of the Bulge and a few of the BoB episodes but didn't get very far because of my inability to write good lyrics...Dream Theater could pull it off easily..
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I just thought of another one: An album chronicling the origins and adventures of the N.A.D.S.!
Building on that idea, what would people think if every track on the next album was named after an already existing working title:
1) Blowfish
2) Beach House Reality
3) N.A.D.S.
4) The Battle of Jimmy Coco and Fishface
... and so forth.
Hard to take seriously, but could you imagine if they actually did that?!
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I wasn't really serious.
If they DID do something like that it would have to be taken for the novelty that it is.
On the other hand, an album with a comic book/superhero theme might not be the worst idea in the world.
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Even though there is already DT material dedicated to mental illness, I'd love to see a thematic/concept (whatever you want to call it) album about one specific condition. I would adore an album devoted to the journey from childhood through the onset of Schizophrenia, Psychosis. Maybe with songs/sections dedicated with misunderstandings and fears about disorders people don't understand. The topic of mental illness has always interested me, and it's one of the reasons SDOIT is my favorite album. In fact, if I had one wish related to DT, it would be that they make an album dedicated to the topic of one specific mental illness, or the stigma and misconceptions accosiated with it.
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A 40 minute song wasn't enough? ;D
I think SDOIT covers this topic very well, and in fact Solitary Shell describes exactly what you suggested about the change from early development into adulthood.
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SDOIT covers various mental diseases shortly, I would like to see a more fleshed out version. SS isn't really about Schizoprenia, and that's a disorder I find really facsinating. I would like to see sections/songs devoted to various aspects of the disorder, such as how they are viewed, and what they experience, and if they really captured the atmoshpere of each subject I think it would be in my top 2 or 3 albums.
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Why does these epics always have to go to the dark side of ones life. Why can't it be triumphant story? Now that would be something different.
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I think some uplifting songs can be done well, but in general the darker songs are more thought provoking for me. I really can't come up with a triumphant story that would interest me as much as some darker themes. Maybe a person's battle through a disease that concludes with an epic account of how they survived or how they are living differently, but that sounds a bit generic. What sort of triumphant stories would you like to see?
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And as the comparative quality of those songs prove, lyrics do not make a song. :biggrin:
First of all, are you saying that good lyrics and good music have to be mutually exclusive?
And second, Raise The Knife > The Count of Tuscany ;)
No to both. :biggrin:
I'm not saying that good music and lyrics are mutually exclusive, I was just saying that the examples given prove that good lyrics don't necessarily make a good song, and bad lyrics don't necessarily make a bad song. It's all about the music for me. Lyrics can't redeem a poorly written song.
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Why does these epics always have to go to the dark side of ones life. Why can't it be triumphant story? Now that would be something different.
I think my N.A.D.S. idea is looking better and better!
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I don't know if i would like another album like SFAM .
What i DO know is that i love reprises.
They could do a sub concept section of the album, like they did on Awake with The Mind Beside Itself.
Other thing that i love is diverse kind of song's duration. (9:45/2:40/7:07/10:38/4:27)
It would be like.
Cool and mysterious title like "Mind's Real Fears"
1.Song (9:33)
2.Song (4:07) (Posible Single)
3.Song (10:43)
4.Song* (2:11) (Song based on the DT12 Easter Egg)
Suite:
-5.Subsong** (8:17)
-6.Subsong (6:20) (Very crazy and strange instrumental kind of Raw Dog meets Erotomania)
-7.Subsong (2:47)(featuring guest musician like they did in "Lines in the sand")/
-8.Subsong**Reprise (9:10)
9.Song*Reprise (11:29)
There would be a theme (Fear maybe) and all the song would talk about different experiences with fear and things related to that.
That way it would be space for fantasy and real experiences.
A well balanced, very proggy and kind of metal tilted album.
If they don't do it i will so this it's going to happen ;D
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First thing that came to my mind for some reason was a guy falling down to the water and finding himself still capable of breathing but falling to the bottom of the ocean as if somebody was dragging him down. He then reaches bottom and finds nothing but darkness except for a blue point hanging as a distant fading lightbulb in the sky. The album is him trying to reach it, believing it's the surface of the sea.
Why did I think of this? Is it because I'm listening to Oceansize?
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For example: a lot of people are hoping/anticipating/wishing for a "Metropolis part 3," either as another album or a single track.
No, they really aren't.
This is the first time I've seen anybody want Metropolis: Part 3.
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The next Metallica is a concept album as they're struggling with the whole "concept" of an "album".
...And either the album, or one of the tracks on it will be called "F**k 'em! They Can Wait!"
Have you read any of the interviews?
Does anyone besides me want to punch Lars in the mouth?
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A concept album about Alice In Wonderland. Boom.
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I'd love to see a concept album about The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe
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I really loved the Solitary Shell lyrical concept, so I guess I would love to see an entire album based on the idea of autism (or just deep deep loneliness).
I find this feeling very touching, even heart breaking.
I know Mr. Petrucci can make me cry with this subject :)
I agree with this general direction. To me, I really enjoy 6DOIT as a song because it's realistic. When I can identify with the story, I'm way more invested. So yeah, if they could write a really believable script as the foundation for the concept then I would be behind it. I also subscribe to having a more uplifting tone...so how about this.
The story of a long distance relationship...
Two strangers meet on vacation...
initial songs are uplifting about discovering a soul mate...
darker elements are explored when the two people have to separate...
each person is then written about in their own context and as an influence for the music, you can tie it back to their culture (perhaps one person is from Spain and the other is from Japan, and they meet in Argentina for example - each song would tie in related musical themes...
There is a complex struggle about where each of them wants to take their lives...
The ending is euphoric and positive as the two reuinte and their future is happy...
I could dig something like that.