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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Orbert on July 21, 2014, 12:00:14 PM
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Warning: Pictures kinda graphic.
If more child molesters ended up looking like this, maybe there would be fewer child molesters (https://news.yahoo.com/police-fla-father-beats-accused-child-abuser-193806138.html)
You know me. Despite being kinda scary looking, I'm really a pacifist, a lover not a fighter. But there's no question in my mind that I would have done the same thing.
When asked by the 911 dispatcher if any weapons were involved, the father said "my foot and my fist." Yep.
The father has not been charged with any crime. "Dad was acting like a dad. I don't see anything we should charge the dad with," Daytona Beach Police Chief Mike Chitwood said. Yes!
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While I've got my violent tendencies when defending myself or my loved ones, when it comes to confrontation, I'm a bunny; I'd much rather go for flight than fight. I gotta say though, that little devil on my shoulder would outright become me if I found anything like this in the flesh. Without a doubt...I'd see red, then I'd be in prison (or maybe not with the way that cop was speaking :lol ). Gotta hand it to that dad, he's got some otherworldly restraint. I can't and won't imagine having a child and then finding something like this but that face, to me, says "I did you a favor" from the dad. Good man. The offender will probably and hopefully be dead within the next few months. Sympathy...for things like him...is a tragic misstep. Hoping a human dies is one thing but he's a cockroach so no need to comment on that comment, pacifists and humanitarians and/or any other softies alike. It's what I feel regardless of the useless moral implications. Good on the fuzz for not making this about a violent dad too. I think even Gandhi would wanna throw a punch or two.
Sick shit. >:( :censored There's no other way around it, some living things would make the world a better place if they'd cease to exist. This is one of those instances. You can kind of see it in the one eye that isn't completely swollen shut...a rabid dog. At the very least, I would've made him a quadriplegic. That seems pretty lenient.
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I'll bet just about anything that Raymond Frolander wins a hefty lawsuit over this. He won't get money just for getting the shit kicked out of him, but because his picture has been everywhere and his name tarnished. 'Murica.
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I might have to become a terrorist if that happens.
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Chino, and odds are that the ACLU will jump to his defense and get him his lawyer for the lawsuit.
That aside, I think the majority of men would do what that dad did.
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Or worse.
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Chino, and odds are that the ACLU will jump to his defense and get him his lawyer for the lawsuit.
I'm not sure you actually get what the ACLU does. This isn't it.
And I've got no problem with the outcome here. All I'd add is that I hope he sent the kid out of the room first. No point compounding one psychological trauma with another.
edit: and what's the Over/Under on how many posts before this becomes P/R grist?
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22
and...
:tup :tup
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Good dad is good
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Chino, and odds are that the ACLU will jump to his defense and get him his lawyer for the lawsuit.
I'm not sure you actually get what the ACLU does. This isn't it.
And I've got no problem with the outcome here. All I'd add is that I hope he sent the kid out of the room first. No point compounding one psychological trauma with another.
edit: and what's the Over/Under on how many posts before this becomes P/R grist?
That's a good mention...make sure the kid is...well 'okay'/not in danger and go to work.
I'd say my post probably condemned it to P/R right away but if not then 15.
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Yeah, I thought that maybe I should've started this in P/R after I'd posted it. Oh well.
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Yeah, I thought that maybe I should've started this in P/R after I'd posted it. Oh well.
Well since I picked 22 as the over/under number I'll just blame Obama if this thread is still in GD come post 20. :tick2:
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Yeah, I thought that maybe I should've started this in P/R after I'd posted it. Oh well.
Nah, I don't think we're there yet. I just figure sooner or later somebody's going to say something to set everybody off. If history's any indicator it might be me, but we'll see. Aside from the ACLU nonsense I've got no problem with the outcome or the comments.
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I'd like to think that everyone here is good hearted enough to want the man to die a horribly torturous death.
:rollin :lol :P
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I'd like to think that everyone here is good hearted enough to want the man to die a horribly torturous death.
The essence of the argument :lol
Way to go, dad!
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I don't wish death on anyone.
But I am hard pressed to judge what this father did.
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Nah, I don't want him to die. However, if the old man actually had killed him I'm sure I'd be defending his actions. As far as I'm concerned Dad pretty much gets a free pass on this one.
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Nah, I don't want him to die. However, if the old man actually had killed him I'm sure I'd be defending his actions. As far as I'm concerned Dad pretty much gets a free pass on this one.
With ya there, Bart.
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Agreed man.
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I think it's awesome that the chief of police seems to feel that way, too. No charges being brought. Of course, he's probably a dad.
Some places, there would be people screaming how he should've just left it up to the authorities, blah blah blah, but dad saw something, started beating the shit out of the guy, and people seem okay with that.
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Nah, I don't want him to die. However, if the old man actually had killed him I'm sure I'd be defending his actions. As far as I'm concerned Dad pretty much gets a free pass on this one.
With ya there, Bart.
As am I. This rapist should probably feel lucky that he ran into a Dad that didn't have a CCW permit and gun. Personally....had that been me discovering a man doing this to one of my boys....man, I'd like to believe I would have restrained myself and not shot him in front of my kid but it'd be a tough call. He'd definitely had received at least the same type of physical restraining method this dad used.
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Good for him. I've never shared this before. Anywhere. But my ex and I divorced when LittleVox was 2. My ex dated a couple of losers from her past for a short while afterwards. One day my little dude and I were outside kicking a ball (he was three), and he tells me that he didn't like his mommy's new boyfriend because he "slapped my face." I calmly entered into a line of inquiry wherein he told me that the guy had been over at his moms, and they were going somewhere. He offered to put on my little dudes coat, while his mom was in the bathroom; and he didn't get to him right away when the dude told him to come over to him, so he told him, "Next time, hurry up when I call you over!'' and he slapped him. I excused myself and called my ex, who immediately broke down and cried her eyes out on the phone and confirmed that it was true. She was shocked that it happened and she immediately threw the bastard out of her house; but had been afraid to tell me about it. The last thing I would ever want to do would be to get into her business; especially right after our divorce when both of us were struggling to find our way as parents, and as single, dating, individuals again. But the dude put his hands in my three year olds face. I asked her where he lived, and I drove over to his house. It was in the middle of the day on a Saturday. I politely knocked on the door, and he came to the door, but only spoke to me through it, and he refused to open it. After several attempts to get him to come to the door, I told him I was going to kick it in instead. I gave him three chances after I threatened to kick in his door. He lived in an older house with these huge thick oak doors. After he refused to accept the third chance for him to be a man and open the door, I kicked the fuck out of the door, and was shocked when the whole goddamn door frame fell into his living room. Door, frame and all came crashing down. At nearly the same time the door hit the floor, a cop had pulled his service revolver at me, and was commanding me to get down on the porch (the guy had called the cops on me :biggrin: ). I complied and his partner quickly handcuffed me. I calmly explained who I was and why I was there. The asshole, was freaking out and crying, and babbling was telling them that I was there because I was jealous of he and my ex-wife. After they put me in the car, I explained everything to them, and told them that the two of them were not involved any longer because of what happened. By now, there were about six cops there, and the officer who had cuffed me and put me in the back seat questioned the guy, who finally admitted to "barely hitting" my son. So, now the cops are giving him nine kinds of shit, and told the guy he was lucky I hadn't killed him. They ultimately took me to the police station, where they also towed my car. Once at the police station, the cop let me go. Apparently, the douche bag refused to press charges against me after the cops told him he'd have to go to court and explain to the judge what had prompted me to act the way I did. He didn't even want restitution for his door. The cop took off my hand cuffs, only after making me promise him I wouldn't go back to the dudes house. "You're an attorney, let the courts handle it. Have your ex file a complaint." I agreed with him, and promised not to return to beat the hell out of the guy. As I was leaving the cop said, "I'm glad you aren't like me, because I would have shoved my .38 up his ass. You just wanted to beat the hell out of him." less than a week later the asshole moved to Texas. My ex still has never forgiven herself for the incident. She blames herself; but I never really did. I know she would never put up with anyone harming her or our son; and LittleVox quickly forgot about the whole thing. So, yeah...I side with that father all the way.
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Whoa. That's a hell of a story. Bummer that you got hauled in, but good thing the cops were reasonable about everything. Also sounds like the dude is a chickenshit and was happy to avoid trouble of any kind, which is probably a good thing.
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Yeah, that's quite a story. Wow.
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*snip*
Dayum.
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I agree that the dad acted in the only way he could've in that situation, but I don't agree that the molester is a "thing" or "cockroach" who deserves to die. That's the easy way out, to pretend this isn't a fellow human who just happens to be deeply fucked up in some way.
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The guy handled this like a champ. I probably would have finished him off. Took a lot of control just to take him out and not go that extra step, especially in the way he would have been fired up.
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I agree that the dad acted in the only way he could've in that situation, but I don't agree that the molester is a "thing" or "cockroach" who deserves to die. That's the easy way out, to pretend this isn't a fellow human who just happens to be deeply fucked up in some way.
Pretty much what I wanted to say. It's too easy to dismiss in this way.
However, as father to a 10 year old son......well you know where I'd go with that.
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I agree that the dad acted in the only way he could've in that situation, but I don't agree that the molester is a "thing" or "cockroach" who deserves to die. That's the easy way out, to pretend this isn't a fellow human who just happens to be deeply fucked up in some way.
Agreed. This guy is way more valuable if in a few years he's willing to cooperate with researchers. I hate when people do horrible things and die. We never get any insight as to why they did what they did.
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I'd question how much we can still learn that research hasn't already told us. The problem is that society still isn't in a place to accept what the evidence tells us about these crimes and the people that commit them.
Just because the answer isn't palatable doesn't mean it's wrong.
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I'd question how much we can still learn that research hasn't already told us. The problem is that society still isn't in a place to accept what the evidence tells us about these crimes and the people that commit them.
Just because the answer isn't palatable doesn't mean it's wrong.
You can never have too much data.
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True. In the vein of what you said, puppyonacid, I once read that most people who molest children are educated, religious men with families, jobs, etc. (making the offender here, though an easy target, a minority in these types of situations). It reminds me of the Todd Solondz movie Happiness- the dude is "just a regular guy" with a wife and kids who happens to be a pedophile and eventually starts acting on it with his kid's friends. To everyone he's not molesting, he's a good guy, genuinely. He just has an attraction to children that he loses the strength to fight (I also read that certain types of therapy can be surprisingly effective with this). I'm not saying these people shouldn't be held accountable for what they do, I'm just saying being a child molester doesn't mean someone is a soulless person who deserves to die. In cases where the person is antisocial that makes it a bit stickier (and scarier), but still.
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I agree that the dad acted in the only way he could've in that situation, but I don't agree that the molester is a "thing" or "cockroach" who deserves to die. That's the easy way out, to pretend this isn't a fellow human who just happens to be deeply fucked up in some way.
Agreed. This guy is way more valuable if in a few years he's willing to cooperate with researchers. I hate when people do horrible things and die. We never get any insight as to why they did what they did.
Well, I'd rather people like this die than take a chance on them getting out and ruining any more lives. Obviously, neither scenario is the preferred one, but I have zero sympathy for child molesters. I know, I know, they have deep-seeded problems that require serious help, but considering the high rate of recidivism with such offenders, I am always for erring on the side of caution, especially when it comes to children.
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Well, I'd rather people like this die than take a chance on them getting out and ruining any more lives. Obviously, neither scenario is the preferred one, but I have zero sympathy for child molesters. I know, I know, they have deep-seeded problems that require serious help, but considering the high rate of recidivism with such offenders, I am always for erring on the side of caution, especially when it comes to children.
Given treatment chesters have one of the lowest recidivism rates in CJ. It's when they're dumped in with the sodomites that they become habitual offenders (like pretty much every other criminal). Their higher recidivism rate thing was manufactured by people with a vested interest in keeping people terrified of bogeymen (FOX, CCA, any politician with an election coming up).
Aaaannndddd, P/R in 5....4....3....
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I agree that the dad acted in the only way he could've in that situation, but I don't agree that the molester is a "thing" or "cockroach" who deserves to die. That's the easy way out, to pretend this isn't a fellow human who just happens to be deeply fucked up in some way.
Agreed. This guy is way more valuable if in a few years he's willing to cooperate with researchers. I hate when people do horrible things and die. We never get any insight as to why they did what they did.
Well, I'd rather people like this die than take a chance on them getting out and ruining any more lives.
I never said let them go free...
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Well, I'd rather people like this die than take a chance on them getting out and ruining any more lives. Obviously, neither scenario is the preferred one, but I have zero sympathy for child molesters. I know, I know, they have deep-seeded problems that require serious help, but considering the high rate of recidivism with such offenders, I am always for erring on the side of caution, especially when it comes to children.
Given treatment chesters have one of the lowest recidivism rates in CJ. It's when they're dumped in with the sodomites that they become habitual offenders (like pretty much every other criminal). Their higher recidivism rate thing was manufactured by people with a vested interest in keeping people terrified of bogeymen (FOX, CCA, any politician with an election coming up).
Link?
Also, I don't think child molesters can be shrugged off as (imaginary) boogeymen. I agree that just tossing them in prison with the lowest of the low does them no good as far as rehabilitation, but what is the alternative? Giving treatment to every sex offender, in the hopes that some change their ways, would probably cost a fortune. Granted, given all of the money this country wastes on everything else, it might not be a bad way to go, but given how many jump to the "Ban guns!" mantra every time there is a violent crime instead of focusing on the real issue, it's clear that many in this country have little interest in mental health. Despite what I said, I actually do, but I am just apprehensive when it comes to sex offenders.
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Well, I'd rather people like this die than take a chance on them getting out and ruining any more lives. Obviously, neither scenario is the preferred one, but I have zero sympathy for child molesters. I know, I know, they have deep-seeded problems that require serious help, but considering the high rate of recidivism with such offenders, I am always for erring on the side of caution, especially when it comes to children.
Given treatment chesters have one of the lowest recidivism rates in CJ. It's when they're dumped in with the sodomites that they become habitual offenders (like pretty much every other criminal). Their higher recidivism rate thing was manufactured by people with a vested interest in keeping people terrified of bogeymen (FOX, CCA, any politician with an election coming up).
Link?
Also, I don't think child molesters can be shrugged off as (imaginary) boogeymen. I agree that just tossing them in prison with the lowest of the low does them no good as far as rehabilitation, but what is the alternative? Giving treatment to every sex offender, in the hopes that some change their ways, would probably cost a fortune. Granted, given all of the money this country wastes on everything else, it might not be a bad way to go, but given how many jump to the "Ban guns!" mantra every time there is a violent crime instead of focusing on the real issue, it's clear that many in this country have little interest in mental health. Despite what I said, I actually do, but I am just apprehensive when it comes to sex offenders.
If you google sex offender recidivism you'll find a seemingly endless string of studies ranging from scholarly to governmental. Pick one, they all come to the same conclusion. Since wikiP's synopsis includes a breakdown of child molesters, the key point in this topic, here it is. It's taken from a 1994 report from the DOJ. I like the older one because it predates any of the knee-jerk bullshit that's happened since the paranoia was foisted upon us.
Approximately 4,300 child molesters were released from prisons in 15 US states in 1994. An estimated 3.3 percent of these 4,300 were rearrested for another sex crime against a child within 3 years of release from prison. Among child molesters released from prison in 1994, 60 percent had been in prison for molesting a child 13 years old or younger. The median age of victims of those imprisoned for sexual assault was less than 13 years old; the median age of rape victims was about 22 years. Child molesters were, on average, five years older than violent offenders who committed their crimes against adults. Nearly 25 percent of child molesters were age 40 or older, but about 10 percent of inmates with adult victims were in that age group
And bogeyman is applicable. The people selling paranoia are using random strangers breaking into your house to fuck your daughter as the concern. Hence all of the registration and restrictions on so-called sex offenders. In reality it's normally dad or Uncle Pete that's banging her.
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I would do worse to the guy in a heartbeat