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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: black_biff_stadler on June 17, 2014, 07:59:18 AM
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What happens next for the...
Spurs: They seem to be dealing with their AARP status ridiculously well. With Manu turning 37 next month and Duncan 38, do y'all see them making another title run without having to strike foreign gold again?
Heat: Some seem to think Wade's gonna try for a max contract. If so, he'll be left with the blood on his hands of having run off LBJ. I really can't see him Kobeing up his team like that.
Thunder: Will Scott Brooks learn how to coach? Will Westbrook realize he needs to let the real hero on his team be the hero? Will they man up and stop shrinking in high-stakes playoff situations?
Pacers: Way too many questions here. I'll just leave it at: Who do y'all see them structuring the offense around and is Lance retained?
Rockets: How many years' salary will Howard get from them before they realize he doesn't make the team that much better than someone half his price?
Bulls: Derrick Rose's over under for games played this coming season? I'll put it at 30 and take the over...barely.
Knicks: Is Fisher REALLY gonna be the coach?
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will the Bucks ever be relevant again?
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I want CP3 to taste the finals next year.
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I want CP3 to taste the finals next year.
Just think if James went to the Clippers. I know he and Paul are buddies, and if you added him to that team, jeez, that would sick. Who knows if they even have the cap room for him, but if James wanted to go there, I am sure they'd find a way to make it work.
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I would cheer them on as a Heat fan. Doc, Blake, CP3, Deandre, and Lebron? Fuck me standing.
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LBJ should opt out and sign with the Jazz for cheap... just because he can and for the hell of it. :lol
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If I were LeBron I would go to the Clippers for like $5 million a year. That team would rape everyone.
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I'd be pretty surprised if the Spurs show the same dominance next season, but I don't see them falling off too much. Sure Manu and Duncan are getting old, but Pop does an excellent job of strategically resting them up throughout the regular season. Plus, all the younger peripheral players are only getting better. Kawhi Leonard is going to shine and the Spurs are going to contend once again. Just my two cents.
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The Spurs will have about 10 million dollars in cap room next season. But, they'll probably end up using a lot of it to resign Patty Mills and Boris Diaw.
In the NBA, there's something called the Mid Level Exception (MLE). This gives you five million dollars, unrelated to you cap space, to spend on players. Last year, the Spurs used half of it to sign Marco Bellineli.
I think this year, the Spurs off-season really depend on how well they use the MLE. While Bellineli wasn't a huge factor in the playoffs, he was reliable. If you put him in, he could play smart basketball and make shots. While you can't anticipate Duncan and Manu falling off a cliff, they'll be even older next year. The depth has to keep getting better to compensate.
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The Spurs will be contending again next year, whatever Manu and Duncan lack because of age will be picked up by Leonard and Pop's rotation.
I'm interested to see where Lebron will end up, I'm not sure he'll stay in Florida.
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I want CP3 to taste the finals next year.
Just think if James went to the Clippers. I know he and Paul are buddies, and if you added him to that team, jeez, that would sick. Who knows if they even have the cap room for him, but if James wanted to go there, I am sure they'd find a way to make it work.
Stop guys, I'm getting aroused.
-J
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Didn't LeBron also say he would love to play for Doc Rivers? LeBron on the Clippers would piss so many people off (Mostly Laker fans and LeBron haters though) I almost want to see it happen now.
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How about he stays somewhere in the East? The Western conference is hard enough already
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Yeah, I find it pretty hard for any of the free agents (and potential free agents) to go West. It's so much easier to be in the East.
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Yeah, I find it pretty hard for any of the free agents (and potential free agents) to go West. It's so much easier to be in the East.
That goes both ways though. This year, the Mavericks and Suns have significant cap room. Both teams could become contenders if they make the right moves. The Spurs have a bit of cap room. And other teams in the west *cough*the Rockets*cough* are trying to improve. If you want to contend, the teams in the west provide your best options.
The east is easier, but that's because none of the teams are good enough to win except the Heat. If, like Kevin Love (apparently), you're willing to wait to contend, then joining a team like the Celtics or Raptors makes sense. But if you want to win immediately, there's no benefit. And a guy like Carmelo wants to win now.
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Hey hey! Lakers have cap room also! :P
But yes, I oversimplified that a bit, but what I was trying to get at is that you have an easier time getting to the playoffs and the Finals through the East than the West. So it makes more sense for somone to stay/go to the East.
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So hey! How about the C's 6th and 17th pick?
*Crickets*
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I don't see San Antonio slowing down. I feel like we will be contenders again next season.
I'm looking forward to the return of Derrick Rose, and I want to see how he jumps back into the pool after back to back knee injuries. He's a professional, and I'm sure this off season he's going to work his butt off to be conditioned and game ready for next season. Rose playing with Joakim Noah, who just surfaced this season to be one of the best big men in the league, should be a fun combo to watch.
The Clippers should be coming back stronger than ever. I don't even want to think about how ridiculous that team would be with Lebron in the line-up lol.
The East has a lot of work to do if they want to catch up with the West.
Look for the Wizards having a big season.
Welcome back, Charlotte Hornets!
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So hey! How about the C's 6th and 17th pick?
*Crickets*
If the sixth pick isn't traded, I think he'll end up being a good player. Probably not an all-star, but good.
Right now though, both picks are being offered for Kevin Love.
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And throw in another player or two. I would love to see him here. But , as we all know in this day and age of the NBA, you need a third all star.
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I think the Celtics can do it without a third all-star if they bring in the right supporting players. It's also, in a sense, the less risky strategy. Once you get Love, who else do you go for that's available? Better to get guys like Asik who compliment Rondo and Love.
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re: LeBron to the Clippers -- this sounds weird, but that might be somewhat of a difficult adjustment for someone. LeBron has to have the ball to do what LeBron does, but if he's running the offense, then you're taking the ball out of CP3's hands.
Then again, I don't necessarily know how he and Melo would work things out either, unless they just divided up the quarters every game. Melo gets 20 a quarter in the 1st and 3rd; Lebron 20 a quarter in the 2nd and 4th.
How much might the Hawks improve getting Horford back in the lineup?
Who can Dallas bring in to try and make another deep playoff run in Dirk's final years?
Will Jeremy Lin get traded to a place where he can start? I'm still convinced he could put up good numbers if he was starting somewhere.
Any teams gonna take a gamble on Lance Stephenson?
How will Steve Kerr fare in Golden State? Can he get them to the next level?
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Hopefully, I can pick a team and stick with them. I tried to get behind the Wizards this year, but I ended up feeling guilty when they started winning.
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re: LeBron to the Clippers -- this sounds weird, but that might be somewhat of a difficult adjustment for someone. LeBron has to have the ball to do what LeBron does, but if he's running the offense, then you're taking the ball out of CP3's hands.
They're both smart players. They can make it work. This is where Doc Rivers helps too. He knows how to juggle this stuff.
Then again, I don't necessarily know how he and Melo would work things out either, unless they just divided up the quarters every game. Melo gets 20 a quarter in the 1st and 3rd; Lebron 20 a quarter in the 2nd and 4th.
Neither player is totally well dimensional. Melo can pass out of the post, and LeBron is LeBron. What makes this tough is that I'm not sure how good a player Melo is off the ball. In the Clippers example, both players are strongest with the ball, but both are smart enough to help the team off it. With Melo, I just have no idea how he could perform in that role.
How much might the Hawks improve getting Horford back in the lineup?
A lot. But he can't stay healthy. Do the Hawks try and trade him?
Who can Dallas bring in to try and make another deep playoff run in Dirk's final years?
Hopefully someone.
Will Jeremy Lin get traded to a place where he can start? I'm still convinced he could put up good numbers if he was starting somewhere.
This can't really happen, but wouldn't the Pacers be the perfect team for him? He could play more reliably than George Hill, but he wouldn't be asked to do too much either.
Any teams gonna take a gamble on Lance Stephenson?
Someone will. The question is, how much is the league willing to pay him? More than the Pacers?
I suspect that someone will want to overpay him, and the Pacers won't match because of the luxury tax. And it will help them a lot, because it will rid them of a major cancer.
How will Steve Kerr fare in Golden State? Can he get them to the next level?
I think, at least to start, he'll be okay. Not as bas as Jason Kidd at the beginning of last season, but not as good as he got by the end either.
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Warriors have made Klay Thompson available in a Kevin Love trade.
Now I'm really worried for Boston. From what I can tell, it seems that like what Flip wants in a trade are players that can keep the Wolves from bottoming out. Lee and Thompson can do that for them. The Celtics could do the same with Sullinger and Jeff Green, but the Wolves don't seem to want Green or value Sullinger that highly, so the Warriors definitely have the advantage now.
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Not a basketball fan, but love the quite in the thread title!
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Not a basketball fan, but love the quite in the thread title!
:)
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Solid Ice Cube reference.
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Sure ain't no "yeahee yeahee".
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Alvin Gentry is leaving the Clippers to join Kerr in GS. I think that's a good move for both of them. Gentry can bring the head coaching experience to the table, while his good relationship with Kerr (developed when they were both with the Suns) should translate into making Kerr's head coaching debut much easier.
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I agree. Gentry is a great signing for GSW.
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Here's an interesting offer....
The Jazz are offering #5 and Derrick Favors for the #1 pick (They want Mormon Jabari Parker)
Cleveland could get Favors and Embiid out of this deal. And, considering Parker's background it makes sense. That is one potential superstar a team like Utah could hang on to long term.
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I'm not sure why Cleveland does that instead of just drafting Parker. Unless you want to dump Thompson and Bennet, what's the upside of Favors for them?
It probably couldn't happen because of the sign and trade issues, but Hawyard/5th for the Cav's 1st deal would make a lot more sense for Cleveland.
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Lakers looking to get Klay Thompson?
https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers...620-story.html
Love going to the Warriors looking like a sure thing... for now...
Still, I do not think this is a smart trade for the Lakers long term. We do not have a first round pick next year! Instead we could use the 7th pick this year, easily get a valuable player, develop him for long term at a much lower price thus relatively lower risk then going for Thompson. In the long haul, we simply DO NOT have any prospect to develop, and it ain't healthy!
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I agree. Bad trade for the Lakers.
I'm not sure why people are looking to get Klay. He's gonna get a max contract, and he hasn't proven that he's worth it yet.
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Simmons had a really great idea on his podcast.
Cleveland should trade the 1st overall to Philly. Philly gets Wiggins (who's their top choice no matter what) and Cleveland drafts Embiid with the 3rd overall pick, which makes a lot more sense.
Simmons suggested 1st overall/Waiters for 3rd overall/10th overall. I wouldn't even put in Waiters if I were Cleveland.
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Simmons usually has great trade ideas when the trades don't involve Boston. When they do he comes up with something like Rondo for Westbrook and he's like who says no?
I'm also not sure why everyone is sleeping on Randle he is definitely the most NBA ready out of the top prospects and should go in the top 3.
I guess thats good for Randle though he gets to avoid the shit hole that is Cleveland and maybe go to a slightly better team. :lol
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Embiid is a gamble. Limitless potential but looking like he may be injury prone. Between his back problems and recent foot fracture (the bone he broke is the navicular bone, which notoriously has difficulty healing due to a circulatory anomaly in that area), I'd be having nightmares about a Greg Oden scenario if I were considering taking him with a top draft pick.
Hopefully this will resolve and he'll be able to stay healthy for an NBA career, and this will turn out to just have been a bad stretch for him.
-J
EDIT: ^Randle is good but will have to adapt his game for the bigger post defenders in the NBA. To me, Jabari Parker is easily the most NBA-ready of the top draft prospects. Dude is only 19 and plays with the composure and maturity of a veteran.
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Simmons usually has great trade ideas when the trades don't involve Boston. When they do he comes up with something like Rondo for Westbrook and he's like who says no?
I hear that trade mentioned a lot, and I think it's terrible for both teams.
For OKC, Westbrook helps take the scoring load off Durant. For Boston, Rondo helps make the offense work and get good looks for other guys who can't create their own shot well.
If you trade them, now OKC only has one dominant scorer, and Rondo's passing doesn't help too much because, except for Jackson and Ibaka, no one else on the team can do anything on offense. In Boston, Westbrook would become an unrepentant gunner.
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In Boston, Westbrook would become an unrepentant gunner.
He is one now.
OKC doesn't currently have prolific scorers other than Durant and Westbrook, but that's exactly the beauty of a great point guard (assuming Rondo is still playing at that level): he creates for those guys and improves their output. Everybody in the NBA can knock down open jumpers or layups/dunks.
I don't know if the trade would be good or bad for either team, but I do think OKC should be shopping WB around.
-J
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Something interesting about the Spurs winning this year. Before, it was always considered a bit of a thorn in the league's side (at least by Stern) that the boring, small market San Antonio kept being so successful.
Obviously, the Spurs are a lot more marketable because of how fast and exciting they are. But also, with the league trying to expand its international fanbase, having a team with so many foreign players win the title must have been a huge win. To those fans, watching players from Europe, South America, and Australia succeed is probably a little more identifiable.
Surprising how things change.
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Reports going around that Carmelo officially opted out.
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Not shocking. Knicks are a disaster area.
EDIT: Rudy Gay also opting in. Means he wants to keep playing there. And, since he's rediscovered his shooting touch, his contract isn't a disaster. Lots of positives for the Kings.
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Also means he wasn't gonna get those 14+ million anywhere else. :lol
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Definitely. But on the other hand, Gay could have easily opted out and negotiated a long term, well paying deal with Sacramento for more guaranteed money. He's only 27, so he still has one more big contract to sign. He probably wants to play well again this year and negotiate an even bigger long term deal next off-season than he'd be able to now.
EDIT: I was totally wrong. He apparently wants to sign an extension. I guess then the play is to use his current salary (19.3 million) as a grounding for his future salary. I guess he cares more about the money than the years, since he can only sign a three year extension.
This is pretty shrewd though. He's basically giving the Kings a four year commitment, which is enough to see if they have what it takes to become a title contender. If they don't, he can move on to another team more quickly than if he waited to sign a four or five year deal after this season. And, he still makes a lot of money.
Him and/or his agent are pretty smart.
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Yeah, that's a pretty sweet deal if he gets it.
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Wade likely to decline the option on his contract. (https://network.yardbarker.com/author/article_external/16702852?widget=true)
This is huge news. If Wade and Bosh restructure their contracts, the Heat will have the necessary cap space to reload their roster and keep contending for titles.
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No surprise there Wade is a smart guy he knows winning is more important than money.
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Combined with the fact that he's abilities keep going down and he probably wouldn't get a better deal. Very smart of him.
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bye melo i loved u
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Celtics assistant coach Ron Adams goes to Golden State.
Great hire. He was great with Boston, and really improved Rondo's shot. Really wish he didn't leave, but I understand him wanting to go with more of a sure thing.
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Wade likely to decline the option on his contract. (https://network.yardbarker.com/author/article_external/16702852?widget=true)
This is huge news. If Wade and Bosh restructure their contracts, the Heat will have the necessary cap space to reload their roster and keep contending for titles.
If this is true - and I'm skeptical because of the source - it's a huge positive for the Heat. If Bosh and LeBron do something similar and only take $12 -$14 million a year, Miami will be able to do major damage in free agency and basically guarantee themselves deep playoff runs for another three or four years.
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Combined with the fact that he's abilities keep going down and he probably wouldn't get a better deal. Very smart of him.
Plus, if he doesn't opt out, and that costs them LeBron, a lot of that good will he built up in Miami will evaporate.
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Wade likely to decline the option on his contract. (https://network.yardbarker.com/author/article_external/16702852?widget=true)
This is huge news. If Wade and Bosh restructure their contracts, the Heat will have the necessary cap space to reload their roster and keep contending for titles.
If this is true - and I'm skeptical because of the source - it's a huge positive for the Heat. If Bosh and LeBron do something similar and only take $12 -$14 million a year, Miami will be able to do major damage in free agency and basically guarantee themselves deep playoff runs for another three or four years.
Not cool, no fun! And it would suck for the NBA for years to come. :tdwn
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https://projectspurs.com/2014-articles/report-duncan-may-opt-out-extend-contract.html
This guy is going to die in a Spurs uniform age just doesn't matter to him anymore.
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Not cool, no fun! And it would suck for the NBA for years to come. :tdwn
I hate the Heat, but I want to see them lose at basketball. I don't want to see them fall apart because of contract bullshit. Wade and Bosh aren't playing up to their contracts, so they should renegotiate them.
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https://projectspurs.com/2014-articles/report-duncan-may-opt-out-extend-contract.html
This guy is going to die in a Spurs uniform age just doesn't matter to him anymore.
I'm thinking he might be doing this to take a smaller contract thus allowing the spurs a little more Cap room to sign back Diaw and Mills and maybe bring some more role players.
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https://projectspurs.com/2014-articles/report-duncan-may-opt-out-extend-contract.html
This guy is going to die in a Spurs uniform age just doesn't matter to him anymore.
I'm thinking he might be doing this to take a smaller contract thus allowing the spurs a little more Cap room to sign back Diaw and Mills and maybe bring some more role players.
Exactly. His money is made and his legacy is solidified, so that just leaves a guy who loves basketball, and his team.
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According to Woj, Duncan opted in.
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According to Woj, Duncan opted in.
Yep. David Aldrdige also confirms it.
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According to Woj, Duncan opted in.
Great to see TD is opt-ing in. I'd love to see the Spurs making another title run next season.
Meanwhile, LBJ is opt-ing OUT of his deal with the Heat as expected. I think he will and should wait and see what D-Wade will do before making his next move.
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I know it won't happen, but I'd die laughing if Lebron did "THE DECISION II" and announced that he was returning to Cleveland. That'd be just delicious and endlessly hilarious.
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The Kevin Love thing is going to give me hives. Hearing so many conflicting things about the Warriors trade. Ford and Simmons saying his agent wants to go there and that the trade is all but done save for a few details. Hearing in other corners of the Internet that neither team really likes the trade package and won't be able to find common ground.
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Orlando is offering Cleveland the 4th and 12th pick along with Aaron Afflalo for #1. Meanwhile it looks like they are offering the same to the Bucks for the #2. Still, whether they trade up or not, Orlando probably has the best future of all of the lottery teams in the East. Even more so than Philly. Victor O., Vucevic, 2 lottery picks this year (or possibly one top pick). That looks pretty good to me. :hat
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Clevaland really needs to consider that Orlando trade. The value is incredible.
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This is Cleveland were talking about what makes you think they would consider anything that would make them a better team?
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Sick burn.
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Knicks will trade Tyson Chandler to the Mavericks. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2014/06/25/knicks-mavericks-trade-tyson-chandler-raymond-felton-jose-calderon-shane-larkin-samuel-dalembert/11369559/)
MAVERICKS OUT:
Dalembert
Calderon
Shane Larkin
KNICKS OUT
Chandler
Felton
Really juicy.
Chandler was unhappy about how the Mavs didn't even talk to him after the 2011 season, but I can't imagine him not wanting to play with Dirk again.
Felton is the wildcard. If Carlise can get good basketball out of him (problematic, but possible), he could be a more valuable piece than Calderon.
I don't totally get this trade for the Knicks though. They get rid of Felton's contract, but they aren't getting any really great assets in return. Calderon has three more years left on his deal and is probably overpaid. Dalembert's contract is fine, but I'm not sure what he'd do for you in a trade. I guess the player they really want is Shane Larkin, who put up 10 points per 36 minutes last year.
So, from the Knick's standpoint, they used Chandler's value to dump Felton and get back a minor asset. I'm not totally sure that's enough.
Good to see the Mavericks get another step closer to title contention again though.
Side note: The salaries here don't quite match, so expect the Mavs to send back some cap filler. Maybe Wayne Ellington.
Important EDIT: According to Woj, Dallas is sending Wayne Ellington and two seconds along with Dalembert and Calderon. Still not sure this is a great deal for the Knicks, but it makes sense now. Chandler makes like 14 million next year, which might be too much. Getting a pile of minor assets back for him isn't unreasonable.
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Apparently Pat Riley is going to make a run for... Kendrick Perkins?
WTF?!?!
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Apparently Pat Riley is going to make a run for... Kendrick Perkins?
WTF?!?!
Where did you see this? I refuse to believe it.
The only way you get Perk is if he's amnestied, clears the amnesty waiver, and you can sign him for the minimum. He's a tad underrated, but not by much. Do you really want him in your starting five!?!?!?
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Can we change the title of the thread back to Lincecum lays the pipe on the Padres?
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We probably should.
Also, LOVE the Dallas/Knicks trade.
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I'm not sure whats more laughable, Miami going for Perkins or KG coming back for another season :lol
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Miami is seriously considering that? Holy shit!
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I'm not sure whats more laughable, Miami going for Perkins or KG coming back for another season :lol
KG can still play defense. His contract sucks but he can still be valuable.
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He still has value to the right team, but Brooklyn isn't that team. He'd be more useful on a team like the Clippers, but I'm pretty sure the league won't allow him to go there.
Edit:
Love told several teams he will not resign if they trade for him such as Cavs, Nuggets and Suns - Woj on FoxSports.
Can any team be worse than the Cav's literally no one wants to play for them :lol
Love really should consider Phoenix though they're only a few pieces away from potentially contending and he fits perfectly with their team. With Love they would be competing for the 5th or 6th seed then he could at least make the playoffs for once.
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The league banned the Celtics and Clippers from trading until the following offseason. If KG wanted to go there, he could do it. The problem is his Nets contract. He and the Nets would have to agree to a buyout.
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I suspect Love will be traded tomorrow unless Flip is really stupid.
Right now, the Celtics and the Warriors are the only serious suitors. Flip can play both teams off of each other and get the best offer. He can pump four 1sts out of Boston or get the Warriors to take Kevin Martin. If the Celtics don't trade for Love before the draft, they might abandon the idea and ship out Rondo. If the Celtics decide to rebuild, Flip won't have any leverage with Golden State. He'll have to settle for Lee, Thompson, and a protected 1st at most. Love will never have more value than he does now.
EDIT: Asik to the Pelicans for a 1st round pick.
Decent trade for the Rockets. Baffling for the Pelicans. Anthony Davis is a center. Just embrace it.
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The Los Angeles Clippers potentially could own the basketball world for the next several seasons if they could pull off acquiring Carmelo Anthony and LeBron James. In order to obtain both prized free agents, the team would have to shed a few contracts, but sources say the Clips have a strong interest in bringing both players to Los Angeles.
To pull this off however, the Clippers would have to find a suitor(s) to take on center DeAndre Jordan (one year, $11.4 million), Jared Dudley (three years, $12.1 million), Matt Barnes (three years, $10.1 million), Jamal Crawford (three years, $16.3 million) or J.J. Redick (four years, $27.7 million) in order to clear the necessary cap room.
So basically the Clippers would gut their entire team and try to beat the Spurs in the WCF playing 5 on 12 basketball genius plan really nothing could go wrong.
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Dumping salary to get LeBron is a great idea.
Dumping salary to get Carmelo is not.
Dumping salary to get both is crazy.
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"Orlando has agreed to send Arron Afflalo to Denver for Evan Fournier and 56th pick in 2014 Draft, league sources tell Yahoo Sports." - Woj
Embarrassing trade by the Magic. Their GM should be ashamed of himself for getting so little back. Utter dogshit.
EDIT: Seriously, look at this:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrEPtcSCAAE00bS.jpg:large)
The Magic better hope Fournier pans out.
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Are you surprised? Orlando's entire history as a franchise has been them trading their best players for garbage.
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Sizzle assasinatin' again.
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I guess the logic was that Afflalo was guaranteed to leave after next season, so they might as well trade him and free up cap space now? I dunno.
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Can we change the title of the thread back to Lincecum lays the pipe on the Padres?
:rollin
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I guess the logic was that Afflalo was guaranteed to leave after next season, so they might as well trade him and free up cap space now? I dunno.
The only ting I can think of is that Orlando needs the cap space right now and couldn't put a better trade together. An Afflalo trade was destined to happen, but he has a lot more value than what the Magic got, unless the rest of the league just doesn't like him for some reason.
Klay Thompson is potentially being moved for Kevin Love. How much better is he than Afflalo, really?
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And here we go.
- Wiggins did nothing to deserve this. At least Milwaukee gets Parker now, as they should.
- Happy for Jabari and the Bucks. Hope they succeed together. Philly's where things get interesting. I know they're thinking Embiid, but why not just take Exum and be safe?
- Philly basically going for the highest upside asset. To me, he has too many red and yellow flags, but maybe they know something I don't. Magic pick Exum now, right?
- I don't understand this pick for the Magic unless they are going to play Tobias Harris at the three or trade him. Isn't Exum/Oladipo the kind of back court you want to establish in the draft? Whoever gets Exum now will be getting him at a value.
- Jazz put together a nice Trey Burke/Dante Exum back court. Celtics take Marcus Smart, who I assume will share the back court with Rondo for years to come (jokes!).
- As they often do, things worked out for the Lakers. They got Randle, one of the best players in the draft, simply because no one else had room for him.
- I know nothing about Stauskas other than I suspect I'll have to look up how to spell his name a few more times before I remember it. Kings probably pissed they couldn't trade the pick.
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Lakers just got a steal in Randle he shouldn't have dropped past the 4th pick.
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Corey Maggette is still active!?!?! Holy shit! :lol
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- Hornets draft Noah Vonleh. So you're telling me they don't think Biyombo is their PF of the future?
- I agree with Zach Lowe, there's a high likelihood the Sixers drafted Payton for trade purposes.
- I'm not sure what need McDermott fills for the Nuggets. Guess they just wanted to take the best player.
- Amick and Lowe saying McDermott could be going to the Bulls.
- McDermott going to the Bulls for the 16th and 19th picks. Bit of a win for Denver. But Chicago gets someone they want and they get to clear a bit of salary.
- Magic draft Dario Saric, which is interesting since he's going to be overseas for the next two years. Feels like the Magic don't want to spend another two years tanking. But hey, their call.
- Should have read Woj first. Orlando's trading Saric to Philly for Payton. Makes a lot of sense for both teams. Orlando gets a PG and Philly has no reason not to stash Saric for two years.
- I have nothing of value to say about Minny's pick.
- Suns drafted for positional need it seems.
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NBA drafted Isiah Austin... feels man, feels.
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Does he get split 30 ways then?
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The Hornets steal Napier for Miami thank you MJ :hat
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The Hornets steal Napier for Miami thank you MJ :hat
(https://i.imgur.com/SjlSlQk.jpg)
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Bill Simmons is the worst. That is all.
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Unless Ainge has an ace in the hole, the Rondo trade watch begins now.
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Bill Simmons is the worst. That is all.
I like Simmons' podcasts and writing, but he's awful on TV. Everything is a historical comparison or "What If?".
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ReaPsTA, I hope you are right about Randle being the best big at #7, and I wish he develops well under Kobe and Nash.
BTW, the Lakers spent $1.8M and obtained the 46th pick from the Wiz. Hopefully the money is well spent on Jordan Clarkson.
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The Hornets steal Napier for Miami thank you MJ :hat
So stupid. I live in Charlotte and we got PJ Hairston instead... LULZ.
Waiting to see what MJ tries to pull off in FA, I guess.
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Bill Simmons is the worst. That is all.
I like Simmons' podcasts and writing, but he's awful on TV. Everything is a historical comparison or "What If?".
Plus, he doesn't even pretend to be impartial or objective, which you should try to be when you are an analyst for the NBA on a major network like ESPN. Hell, Ray Lewis was a Raven for life, but when he was an analyst for the NFL draft, he at least did a good job of not being a cheerleader for the Ravens or talking trash about the Steelers.
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Simmons is coming back. This year's draft had a higher rating than the LeBron James draft.
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And for reasons that have nothing to do with Bill Simmons. :lol :lol
Besides, I would expect nothing less from ESPN, where it's now easier to point out those who suck than those who don't.
It's just too bad that Doc Rivers wasn't around this year to make Simmons look like a fool again.
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It's just too bad that Doc Rivers wasn't around this year to make Simmons look like a fool again.
You need to explain this one to me. The "I'd call him an idiot, but I'm too classy for that" from Doc was shockingly insulting. And, essentially, Simmons was accusing him of wanting to leave the Celtics and pretending he was forced out. Not only was Doc doing this (giving a lot of dissembling, obviously BS interview answers), but he later admitted that he did indeed decide he wanted to coach the Clipper and asked for the job.
Not only was Simmons not horribly insulting, but he was also right. How does he come out of this looking bad?
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Because Simmons came off as a crybaby Celtics fan who was pitching a fit on national television cause the coach of the team he doesn't pretend to not love, even though he is supposed to be an objective, impartial analyst, might be leaving. Even if Simmons was eventually right, it's often not what you say, but how you say it. Simmons' overly emotional Celtics love might work in print, but it doesn't on live TV.
I'm sure you'll disagree, so have at it. :biggrin:
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I don't care that he isn't impartial. It makes him honest and not boring.
I agree with you in a general sense though that he isn't good on TV. There's a Vine of Simmons fist pumping at the Celtics making a good draft pick, then stopping himself and even saying quietly to himself "I'm on live TV." Either be good enough at TV to not do it or just be authentic and embrace it.
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While I like writers who are impartial and though I am a C's fan, Bill makes no bones about his love for the C's and because you have a bias against Boston, ( :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:) it's hard for you to read or listen to him. You know going in Bill will be one sided all the time you can just turn the channel or torture yourself Kev. :lol
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I was more amused by his pouting about teams continuing to help the Heat. "Enough!" :rollin :rollin
And actually, kings, like I said before, I do enjoy his writing, even if his articles are sometimes so long that I need to set aside four hours to read them. :lol
I just hate watching any analyst, all of whom are supposed to be objective ideally, flaunt their biases and rooting interests. Michelle Beadle is even worse with her love of the Spurs. Why do I still follow her on twitter? Oh yeah, cause she's a drama queen who always responds to people needling her, and it's comical to watching the ensuing train wreck. :lol :lol
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Are we sure TV as a format just isn't intrinsically terrible for smart sports discussion? I want my sports talk to be informational, entertaining, or both. I like Simmons's column because he can do both. I like Zach Lowe's column because he's smart without being boring. I like the BBallBreakdown videos on Youtube because they're smart and fun to watch. I like reading /r/nba on Reddit because a lot of the one-liners are funny (and occasionally, insightful things are said).
TV isn't smart enough to be smart or entertaining enough to be entertaining. Even when it's good, it's unsatisfying. Every once and a while, I'd watch NBA countdown at halftime and think "wow, that was a really good segment. A couple fun moments, and the analysis was really good." But it went by so fast that there was no depth to it. It still felt hollow.
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It's difficult, but can be done if you have the right people.
The NBA show on TNT with Barkley and Kenny Smith is always great. They joke around a lot, but their analysis is always really good.
That NFL show on in the middle of the day now on ESPN is pretty good. It has Mort, Suzy Kolber and a couple others talking about football, I think. That is usually good, although I haven't watched it much.
Sports Reporters on Sunday mornings is almost always good, although they have Jemele Hill on there way too much now. But I like listening to Bob Ryan (OMG, a Boston guy!! :lol), Mike Lupica and Mitch Albom all talk sports.
The problem is, too many shows feel that they need arguing and controversy to get ratings, which is why crap like First Take is so popular.
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I totally get it. He annoys me watching him on TV as well! :lol
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Bill Simmons is the worst. That is all.
Yeah, I don't like him. I can't watch him, it just grinds my gears.
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Bill Simmons is easily my favorite analyst I couldn't care less how much of a Boston homer he is. It's better to be an obvious homer then pretend to be impartial like the other analysts.
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233970/Source-Kyle-Lowry-Will-Sign-With-Heat
Riley doing work :hat
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^ I wouldn't be too sure of that. Bucher just retracted.
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The best basketball analysis on TV is The Starters. Four dudes just talking hoops who clearly know their stuff. They use lots of advanced stats to support their thoughts but at no point does it feel like a bunch of math majors reading off Basketball Reference.
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The best basketball analysis on TV is The Starters. Four dudes just talking hoops who clearly know their stuff. They use lots of advanced stats to support their thoughts but at no point does it feel like a bunch of math majors reading off Basketball Reference.
Don't entirely disagreed as I only watched that show once... at least those guys all seem to be likeable. :lol I will definitely try and give it a few more viewings though.
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NBA on TNT is my favorite. Those guys are great.
I love the response after After Reggie Evans got caught grabbing Chris Kaman's junk during a game.
Ernie: "Evans got caught with his hands in the cookie jar."
Charles: "Ernie, I don't know where you get your cookies, but the rest of us don't get them there."
:lol
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Haslem opted out of his contract. Obviously, this is a good signal that Wade and Bosh will do the same.
It's important for Riley to step up here. He needs to pay Haslem less per year to free up cap space, but he needs to make sure the guaranteed cash over the entirety of his contract makes this decision worth it. I think he'll do so, but it's important to keep the dynamic in mind for Wade, James, and Bosh. If you want the players to take risks and sacrifice, you need to do the same.
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The best basketball analysis on TV is The Starters. Four dudes just talking hoops who clearly know their stuff. They use lots of advanced stats to support their thoughts but at no point does it feel like a bunch of math majors reading off Basketball Reference.
What network is that on? I think I caught it once and liked it, but I'm not sure.
-J
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233983/Dwyane-Wade-Exercises-Early-Termination-Option-With-Heat
Bosh has done the same it's time to get Melo and Lowry :hat
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233986/Heat-Create-NBA-Record-$55M-In-Cap-Space
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So this is where things get a little weird for the Heat. Even though Wade, James, Bosh, and Haslem are free agents, the Heat can't use their cap space yet because of the cap holds on their contracts. From what I can tell, the big three will count about 19 million each against the Heat's cap. This means it's in the Heat's interest to negotiate their contracts ASAP to actually open up the cap room. They also have to quickly make decisions about their other free agents, since they also have cap holds.
I'm curious what the big three will all be paid. While LeBron should take a pay cut, it's also no one's place to pressure him into doing this. He's worth every cent of his maximum salary.
Wade and Bosh on the other hand aren't producing like superstars anymore. It seems there's a lot of demand for Bosh on the open market, but he also averaged a 14-5-1 (55%FG) and a 12-9-2 (46% FG) in the last two finals. This is not a max player. And for all we know, Dwyane Wade's career might be over after a couple seasons.
I feel like Wade will be given an excessive contract out of loyalty and a desire to close the deal quickly. Bosh is probably worth more on the open market, but he's less of a Heat icon and seems less concerned about the money if it means continuing to win titles.
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The best basketball analysis on TV is The Starters. Four dudes just talking hoops who clearly know their stuff. They use lots of advanced stats to support their thoughts but at no point does it feel like a bunch of math majors reading off Basketball Reference.
Agreed. I had been listening to them for a while when they were The Basketball Jones and was so pumped that they got to basically have their dreams come true.
The show isn't as good, but it's still better than pretty much anything else.
As far as Simmons goes - I could not care less about his homerism. Actually, I could, because I think it makes him entertaining and funny. It's who he is. It would be disingenuous for him to try to be some impartial sports arbiter. Furthermore, is there really any insight to be gained by these draft shows anyway?
While I agree that TV isn't his best format by a long shot, I'd rather someone like Simmons there, saying silly stuff, complaining about the Heat, fist-pumping the Celtics pick on camera, than pretty much any other ESPN stiff.
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Either Jason Kidd is THIS good, or he is a control freak. I'd like to think it is the latter.
I am curious to see what would KG, Pierce and Livington do now. They are all strong supporters of Kidd as coach, do they all still want to return to the Nets without Kidd?
According to a league source, Kidd recently approached ownership with a series of demands, including the a role of overseeing the Nets’ basketball operations department in addition to his head coaching responsibilities. The source said Kidd didn’t want general manager Billy King to be dismissed, but wanted to be given a title and placed above him in the organizational hierarchy.
https://nypost.com/2014/06/28/denied-promotion-jason-kidd-gets-ok-to-talk-with-bucks/ (https://nypost.com/2014/06/28/denied-promotion-jason-kidd-gets-ok-to-talk-with-bucks/)
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Holy shit Jason Kidd :lol
Dear Nets fans: Welcome to dysfunction. There's beer in the fridge.
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Just think, he could be mediocre at 2 jobs now. :lol
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On second thought, if you can't beat them, join them. :lol KG and PP should just suck it up and join the Miami LeBrons for the vet minimum... Wait! Didn't they unfollow Allen's tweeter after he bailed on them in Boston? :lol! Time to reconcile! :lol
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The best basketball analysis on TV is The Starters. Four dudes just talking hoops who clearly know their stuff. They use lots of advanced stats to support their thoughts but at no point does it feel like a bunch of math majors reading off Basketball Reference.
What network is that on? I think I caught it once and liked it, but I'm not sure.
-J
They are on NBA TV every day at 6 PM. You can also download the audio version of the show on their official website. :)
So this is where things get a little weird for the Heat. Even though Wade, James, Bosh, and Haslem are free agents, the Heat can't use their cap space yet because of the cap holds on their contracts. From what I can tell, the big three will count about 19 million each against the Heat's cap. This means it's in the Heat's interest to negotiate their contracts ASAP to actually open up the cap room. They also have to quickly make decisions about their other free agents, since they also have cap holds.
I'm curious what the big three will all be paid. While LeBron should take a pay cut, it's also no one's place to pressure him into doing this. He's worth every cent of his maximum salary.
Wade and Bosh on the other hand aren't producing like superstars anymore. It seems there's a lot of demand for Bosh on the open market, but he also averaged a 14-5-1 (55%FG) and a 12-9-2 (46% FG) in the last two finals. This is not a max player. And for all we know, Dwyane Wade's career might be over after a couple seasons.
I feel like Wade will be given an excessive contract out of loyalty and a desire to close the deal quickly. Bosh is probably worth more on the open market, but he's less of a Heat icon and seems less concerned about the money if it means continuing to win titles.
It would be nice to see everyone take some kind of pay cut. I don't really know how much players make but 18/13/13 sounds more than reasonable. I don't think those guys will do it though.
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ESPN is reporting that they're talking to each other to discuss the pay cuts to stay together. But I've also read that Bosh wants to see what he can get in free agency so I don't know.
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Apparently Jason Kidd really pissed off the Russian ownership of the Brooklyn Nets. This article on NBC sports says "The Russians are done with Kidd."
Jesus. Hopefully we won't find him in the bottom of a lake :lol
https://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/29/report-nets-done-with-jason-kidd-discussing-compensation-with-bucks-for-hiring-him-away/
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Hawks trade Lou Williams, Lucas Nogueira to Raptors for John Salmons (https://sports.yahoo.com/news/hawks-trade-lou-williams--lucas-nogueira-to-raptors-for-john-salmons-011106452.html)
I can't believe every owner hasn't told their GM not to even discuss trades with Masai.
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Hawks trade Lou Williams, Lucas Nogueira to Raptors for John Salmons (https://sports.yahoo.com/news/hawks-trade-lou-williams--lucas-nogueira-to-raptors-for-john-salmons-011106452.html)
I can't believe every owner hasn't told their GM not to even discuss trades with Masai.
Sorry, you lost me there, why not? :huh:
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The guy has been ripping teams off for years now thats why.
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I just looked up Lou's stats and cringed. Dude shoots like 40%.
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The NBA needs to do something to balance the conferences right now. Seeing how teams performed during the playoffs and considering how the teams in the west seem to be clearing out CAP space to bring some of the powerhouse free agents next year's playoffs are looking to be even more one sided than this year.
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The NBA has never had any kind of balance throughout it's history. It would be cool if they could do that but I don't know where they would even begin to do it.
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I mean, what are they supposed to do?
Also, Masai is a bad, bad man.
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I mean, what are they supposed to do?
I don't know that they can do anything "on record" but I guess Adam Silver could meet with some GMs and owners to provide some sort of advise or do something to provide incentive for players to move to eastern teams.
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Looks like Kidd to become the next Bucks coach is a done deal.
https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11155852/milwaukee-bucks-brooklyn-nets-agree-deal-jason-kidd
I don't think the Nets will have shortage in coaching candidates.
On the other hand, it sucks to be Larry Drew.
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I don't think the NBA should do anything to try and influence the conference balance. Remember a couple years ago when the NFC West was historically one of the worst divisions in football, and now it's arguably one of the best in the league?
The league should have conferenceless playoff seeding though. This way, if there is a major imbalance, it doesn't reduce the quality of the post-season.
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Remember the mid to late 80s? The West was a joke, and the Lakers basically got to moonwalk into the Finals every season, while the East was tough to get out of. These things go in waves, and eventually the tide will turn.
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Remember the mid to late 80s? The West was a joke, and the Lakers basically got to moonwalk into the Finals every season, while the East was tough to get out of. These things go in waves, and eventually the tide will turn.
It was more like from the mid 80's onward all the way until the 1998 lock out.
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https://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/11156634/lebron-james-miami-heat-wants-maximum-salary
LeBron wants no less than the max. He 100% deserves it, but it's going to make it hard for the Heat to upgrade their roster.
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Wtf are the Bucks doing though are they trying to tank for Okafor next season? Because hiring a drunk as your head coach is a good way to do that.
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Wtf are the Bucks doing though are they trying to tank for Okafor next season? Because hiring a drunk as your head coach is a good way to do that.
I'm confused about this too. Do you really want Jason Kidd coaching Jabari Parker? Kidd is a very sketchy guy.
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Bucks fans I talk to seem to be okay with Kidd as Head Coach. Larry Drew was horrible, more horrible than you can imagine.
What Bucks fans aren't happy with is how the whole thing went down. The new owners have been doing a wonderful job of getting people of Milwaukee talking about the Bucks again and now this PR nightmare of deceiving and lying to bring Kidd in as coach has soured people.
There is a great article on Grantland about the story, and it makes this Bucks fan feel okay about Kidd leading the Bucks.
https://grantland.com/the-triangle/grantland-exclusive-the-jason-kidd-mess-has-a-144-million-pricetag/
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In a half joking kind of way, I'd blame Phil Jackson for setting the stage up for the Kidd-to-Bucks mess. :lol
The market for coaches is exploding after Jackson first offered Kerr and then Fisher so much cash with zero coaching experience. That might have caused Kidd wanting to switch team after just a short 14 months on the job via a trade. :hat
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Damn... even Kyrie Irving got a 5-year $90M deal from the Cavs? Really? Wow! Kobe's 2-year $48M deal suddenly sounds like a steal to me. And the fact that LBJ is seeking a max deal suddenly sounds cheap. ;D
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Giving Kyrie Irving a 5 yr/$90m contract guarantees at least 5 more years in the lottery and it's the Cavs so probably 4 of those years will consist of getting the #1 pick. Looks like the Cavs will be contending for that 8th seed in 2019/2020 :hat
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I only saw a couple of Cavs games last year, but in those games I was not impressed by Kyrie. The guy is a good player, no doubt, but he doesn't seem to be improving from year-to-year. Then again, Cleveland's organization is such a mess maybe he deserves a pass.
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Irving absolutely dogs it on D..... I didn't watch every single one of his NBA game either, but I have yet to see him try hard on D. :hat
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Fan psychology is so funny.
4 years ago LeBron teams up with Wade and Bosh and he's "breaking the league," "can't win the real way," "taking the easy way out." Now stories coming out that he is seeking a max deal and he's selfish, only cares about money and/or cares about money more than winning. :lol
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That's just more evidence that no matter what he does, there will always be dopes out there who will criticize him.
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Really, people should just say, "LeBron is not Jordan". Any time he does anything that deviates even an inch from what Jordan did, he gets killed.
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If he'd learn to flake on gambling debts, maybe folks would start taking him seriously.
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Lance Stephenson isn't liking the 5-year / $44M offer by the Pacers? Please, any GM with a brain won't be offering anything better than that after this past playoffs. :\
https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11166650/lance-stephenson-indiana-pacers-impasse-contract (https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11166650/lance-stephenson-indiana-pacers-impasse-contract)
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Celtics sign Avery Bradley to a 4 year 32 million dollar contract.
This isn't a bad contract. His value was projected to be in the 7-9 million range. But it's not a good one. He's an underrated shooter (39.5% from three) and an excellent defender, but his game is very flawed. He takes a lot of long twos and has no passing skills. His team defense isn't as good as his individual defense. We also have to factor in that he's been very injury prone his whole career.
To some degree, the Celtics made this signing because they had to. Bradley is an asset. Someone else would have paid him this contract, so you don't just let someone like him go when you can get him at fair value.
He can also improve. If he shoots fewer long twos and more threes and layups, he could become a real offensive weapon.
But it's ultimately a risk. This won't be an easy contract to trade, and it eats up a decent amount of cap space. If Bradley pans out, it will be an excellent value. If not, it will be a major drain on the Celtics.
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Lance Stephenson isn't liking the 5-year / $44M offer by the Pacers? Please, any GM with a brain won't be offering anything better than that after this past playoffs. :\
https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11166650/lance-stephenson-indiana-pacers-impasse-contract (https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11166650/lance-stephenson-indiana-pacers-impasse-contract)
As a Hornets fan, I'm torn. Lance would make Charlotte better, but he's such an insufferable douche.
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I just don't know why Lance is seen as such a valuable asset. It's not that he's a douche. He's a real locker room cancer. His antics (there's no better word) against the Heat genuinely motivated them to play better. He's a negative to your team.
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The Pacers aren't going to beat the Heat as their team is currently constructed. They need to get rid of Hill,Stephenson,Hibbert and improve their bench. That's obviously a lot easier said then done, but if they don't do anything while the Heat most likely improve this offseason they will get swept in next years playoffs.
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CJ Miles lands a 4 year - $18 Million deal with the Pacers (https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11169203/cj-miles-heading-indiana-pacers-via-free-agency). I think this is goodbye for Stephenson.
Cavs are preparing a significant offer to Gordon Hayward. (https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11168158/cleveland-cavaliers-prepare-maximum-offer-sheet-gordon-hayward-utah-jazz) Is this a good move? I can see the Irving, Wiggins, Hayward being an entertaining combination but is this the player they really need to contend?
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Celtics sign Avery Bradley to a 4 year 32 million dollar contract.
This isn't a bad contract. His value was projected to be in the 7-9 million range. But it's not a good one. He's an underrated shooter (39.5% from three) and an excellent defender, but his game is very flawed. He takes a lot of long twos and has no passing skills. His team defense isn't as good as his individual defense. We also have to factor in that he's been very injury prone his whole career.
To some degree, the Celtics made this signing because they had to. Bradley is an asset. Someone else would have paid him this contract, so you don't just let someone like him go when you can get him at fair value.
He can also improve. If he shoots fewer long twos and more threes and layups, he could become a real offensive weapon.
But it's ultimately a risk. This won't be an easy contract to trade, and it eats up a decent amount of cap space. If Bradley pans out, it will be an excellent value. If not, it will be a major drain on the Celtics.
It is such a bad move unless a trade of someone is in the future. Logjam at both guard positions.
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Lowry signs 4/48 deal with the Raptors with an ETO after the third year.
This is basically the right contract. Lowry was very willing to leave, so he had real leverage. The salary is about his market value. The ETO sucks for Toronto, but it's not unreasonable.
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Lowry was amazing last year. I don't think most people realize that. He was probably the best PG in the East. His contract is very fair. I'm happy my Raps got him back.
EDIT: Looks like LeBron coming back to the Heat is not the done deal we all thought. Bosh and Wade don't know what he's doing.
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As a Hornets fan, I'm torn. Lance would make Charlotte better, but he's such an insufferable douche.
I'm happy my Raps got him back.
I smell sports bigamy.
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As a Hornets fan, I'm torn. Lance would make Charlotte better, but he's such an insufferable douche.
I'm happy my Raps got him back.
I smell sports bigamy.
I am thinking the same thing too. :lol
Back at TOX on Lance Stephenson to the Hornets. No! For such a young team, he can easily turn into Stephen Jackson 2.0 and be a destructive force in the locker room.
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It is such a bad move unless a trade of someone is in the future. Logjam at both guard positions.
This article does a good job explaining why the Bradley deal was good. (https://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2014/07/avery_bradley_deal_should_pay_off)
Aside from the obvious (someone else would have offered more), the article points out that Bradley's contract has no options or incentives in it. Its cap hit is exactly what it is every year with no complication. Another team could have offered a contract with more options or incentives, making it very hard to deal with Bradley's impact on the cap every year.
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As a Hornets fan, I'm torn. Lance would make Charlotte better, but he's such an insufferable douche.
I'm happy my Raps got him back.
I smell sports bigamy.
I am thinking the same thing too. :lol
LOL. Lived in Canada for 8 years and NC for 8 years. I like both those teams. Probably the Raps more though...
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No offense, Kevin, but you looked a lot older than 16 when I met you.
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No offense, Kevin, but you looked a lot older than 16 when I met you.
Haha. Play along man, come on...
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Guys just need to make a damn decision soon in this particular order:
1. LBJ
2. Bosh
3. Melo
4. Gasol
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They'll fall like dominoes. Once one decides where they are going, the others will fall within a day or so.
If the rumors are true about the deal Houston has offered Bosh, he needs to jump on that right away.
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They'll fall like dominoes. Once one decides where they are going, the others will fall within a day or so.
If the rumors are true about the deal Houston has offered Bosh, he needs to jump on that right away.
Is it just me, but am I the only one feeling Bosh would make a decision and sign with the Rockets first, followed by LBJ returning to the Cavs?
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I'm not buying this James might return to Cleveland crap. It's hysterical how ESPN ran with it all day yesterday simply because Chris Broussard said he had a feeling about it, while even admitting that he had no sources on it. Classic modern day ESPN journalism!! :rollin :rollin
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I'm not buying this James might return to Cleveland crap. It's hysterical how ESPN ran with it all day yesterday simply because Chris Broussard said he had a feeling about it, while even admitting that he had no sources on it. Classic modern day ESPN journalism!! :rollin :rollin
That's true about ESPN, and I wasn't even watching it lately. I was just wondering why did he take so long to decide, if his main goal to be the highest paid dude on the team; and the Heat are more than willing to offer him the max possible contract. Sure, he has the rights to look at all other options, still it shouldn't have taken so long to make a decision if money and a chance to contend for a title are his main goals.
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If I were Chris Bosh, I'd seriously consider signing with Houston. Aside from the money, there are three very good reasons to do this:
1. Josh McRoberts and Danny Granger aren't cutting it. It doesn't seem like Riley's going to be able to really reload the roster. While Houston's bench would be thin, Beverly/Harden/Parsons/Bosh/Howard is a monster starting five. You can find cheaper players to sufficiently fill out the bench. Even better, the Rockets have an 8.3 million dollar trade exception from the Asik deal.
2. Miami is LeBron and Wade's team. In Houston, Bosh would have the opportunity to be a real locker room leader.
3. Last year, Bosh became basically a stretch four. A highly reliable three point shooter who is a very good, but not great defender. Being a small-ball center isn't totally his game anymore. In Houston, he'd be playing with Dwight Howard, so he wouldn't be responsible for playing near the rim anymore. It would also give him the opportunity to best utilize his defensive skills. Rather than banging with centers, he'd be guarding guys like Nowitzki and Aldridge. It's not hard to believe that Bosh's body is in serious risk of decline. Even though Houston plays at a very fast pace, being out of the paint would save him a lot of wear and tear.
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If Lebron returns to Miami, Riley may be able to get other FA's to come that will make a good roster.
I love Bosh, so much, as a Heat fan. With that said, he deserves the money at his level and if he went to Houston, I wouldn't blame him. I especially agree with point 3 in Reap's post, having D12 at center relieves Bosh of filling that role, and it'd be exciting to see Bosh play more naturally.
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Until this moment some people are still saying they could get Melo if Bosh leaves. Not so fast. The story below talks about what would have to happen to get Melo, and it would involve multiple players agreeing to pay cuts. The writer of the story thinks if Bosh leaves the Heat, they would be better off using their remaining cap space on multiple players rather than signing Melo and then having to fill out the roster with minimum salary players.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/24610979/trying-to-get-melo-math-to-add-up-in-miami (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/24610979/trying-to-get-melo-math-to-add-up-in-miami)
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234179/Cavs-Nets-Celtics-Agree-Upon-Three-Team-Trade
I would laugh if the Cavs make all this cap space for nothing :lol
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234179/Cavs-Nets-Celtics-Agree-Upon-Three-Team-Trade
I would laugh if the Cavs make all this cap space for nothing :lol
Well, can't blame them for trying hard. Hell, if LBJ does join them, I thought this version of the Cavs actually become a better team than any of those old Cavs with James.
A new report is saying they are also making a move on Ray Allen as well. Things are starting to get interesting now.
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Ainge rolled Cleveland. Zeller and the 1st are real assets. I don't like taking on Thronton, but at least he's an expiring contract. Cleveland was desperate.
This was also... somehow... a good trade for the Nets.
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I'm not buying this James might return to Cleveland crap. It's hysterical how ESPN ran with it all day yesterday simply because Chris Broussard said he had a feeling about it, while even admitting that he had no sources on it. Classic modern day ESPN journalism!! :rollin :rollin
(https://i5.minus.com/iFDIWfknDNtej.jpg)
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As much as I can't buy LeBron going back to Cleveland, it has to be at least somewhat real given the trade that just happened.
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I've said all along that I thought there was no way he'd go from Miami back to Cleveland, but it looks like it could happen now. If it does, I will admit to be dead wrong.
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I didn't think it would happen either, but the Cavs have, through both circumstance and doing smart things (shocking) put themselves back in it.
The circumstances can't be underrated. The Cavs getting the 1st overall pick really mattered. Playing with Wiggins is intriguing. The Cavs could also use him to trade for another superstar. It also helped the Cavs that the Heat situation got so ugly and uncertain so quickly. I think a couple weeks ago it felt like a foregone conclusion that they'd figure it out and come back together. Right now, it feels borderline unlikely.
But the Cavs should also get credit for doing a few smart things. They fired Mike Brown even though he had three guaranteed years left on his contract. Being willing to eat that kind of financial loss to make a smart basketball decision shows a real desire to sacrifice and succeed. It doesn't hurt that they hired a highly successful European coach to replace him. They also fired Chris Grant and replaced him with someone who might be competent. Finally, even though Irving's 5 year/90 million dollar max might be an overpay, it was smart to snuff out what could have been a major source of drama for them. Basically, after last year's horribly dysfunctional season, the Cavs tried to deal with why that drama was happening.
All of this happened in a month or two. Amazing how quickly things change.
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LeBron to Cleveland might really be happening.
- Rumor has it he's going to announce his decision right after meeting with Riley.
- Moving trucks are outside LeBron's house (the Internet is amazing).
- According to Woj, Bosh and Houston are talking more actively.
This would be unbelievably fascinating.
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Dude i love this shit I don't care what anyone says, it's entertaining as all hell.
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Coach Pop also extended today.
https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11196065/gregg-popovich-agrees-multiyear-extension-san-antonio-spurs
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Extended what :eyebrows:
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his penis
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his penis
In LeBron's seat.
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234188/Carmelo-Anthony-Expected-To-Announce-Decision-To-Re-Sign-With-Knicks-On-Thursday
It's not Woj reporting so I doubt it's true, but LOLKNICKS if it is :lol
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To be fair, Carmelo only said he wanted to experience free agency.
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I love Carmelo. I would be thrilled if he stayed.
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This is classic! Pop's homage to LBJ :metal :lol
(https://giant.gfycat.com/TameImpoliteAfricanharrierhawk.gif)
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https://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/stephen-a-spills-the-beans-on-lebron-returning-to-cleveland-on-espn-radios-mike-and-mike/
Wow. Not sure if true, but stephen did call lebrons decision and big three creation back in 2010 almost a week before it was actually announced. If he does go to cle (aside from the redemption narrative), i do not doubt riley was a BIG cause. He just seems like a conniving weasel, and you know lebron didnt appreciate that post finals press conference riles gave.
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:rollin Guys, I'm dying. DYING.
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/tremontidood/1_zps21fbd88b.jpg)
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/tremontidood/2_zps3268b1f9.jpg)
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/tremontidood/3_zpsf93a8e0b.jpg)
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/tremontidood/4_zpsf31ecce6.jpg)
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/tremontidood/5_zps7abe0876.jpg)
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https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/487335722873937920
LeBron is going to see this and change his mind. He can have a TV special to announce that he's taking his talents back to south beach because the fans in Cleveland are like that creepy Ex-GF that doesn't get that it's over.
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https://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/stephen-a-spills-the-beans-on-lebron-returning-to-cleveland-on-espn-radios-mike-and-mike/
Wow. Not sure if true, but stephen did call lebrons decision and big three creation back in 2010 almost a week before it was actually announced. If he does go to cle (aside from the redemption narrative), i do not doubt riley was a BIG cause. He just seems like a conniving weasel, and you know lebron didnt appreciate that post finals press conference riles gave.
I have mixed feelings about this:
- Better that LeBron go to Cleveland now than delay it another year. If you're going to go, just go.
- LeBron's a more selfless guy than me for giving his friends so much power. The Decision was Maverick Carter's idea and now apparently he might leave Miami in part because he didn't think his friends were treated well. I dunno. I wouldn't involve them so much.
- The Cavs will not be contenders even with LeBron unless they can get Kevin Love in a trade. They also need shooting; preferably both Allen and Miller will sign.
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You're kidding, right? Pretty much any team in the East would be a top contender with LeBron James.
Honestly, I think he wants to stay in Miami, but knows that they are handicapped a bit as far as building a championship team around him (because of their silly loyalty to Wade, whom they ought to just ditch now). And while Cleveland is intriguing and would make for a great redemption story, he has to be wondering if a rookie coach and those young players will really pan out in the short run. He needs to maximize his chances at winning rings in his prime; wasting 2-3 years of his prime with young players who need to grow is not the way to go.
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You're kidding, right? Pretty much any team in the East would be a top contender with LeBron James.
This 100%
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Considering how weak the East is, the Cavs with LeBron could probably make it to the Finals, but would have a hard time beating the West team.
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And while Cleveland is intriguing and would make for a great redemption story, he has to be wondering if a rookie coach and those young players will really pan out in the short run. He needs to maximize his chances at winning rings in his prime; wasting 2-3 years of his prime with young players who need to grow is not the way to go.
All true, which is why I think he should have signed with Chicago, Phoenix, or Houston.
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Dude i love this shit I don't care what anyone says, it's entertaining as all hell.
ok i take it back just fucking decide already god
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It's starting to turn into a dick move, if you ask me. Bosh needs to know now if Houston's going to be able to make that deal to get him if James leaves. Yes, James never said anything to indicate he was going to Cleveland and most of the hysteria there is media fueled, but the longer he doesn't say anything, the worse the reaction gets when/if he goes back to Miami (and that continues to seem like the most likely thing based on how untested the team and staff are in Cleveland.) He's basically holding up all of free agency (not really, but you know once he decides there will be an avalanche of deals) and pretty much getting The Decision II without actually going on television for an hour to do it.
Hell, even if he DOESN'T know, say that. Say something. Right now it looks like he's making the entire fucking league about him, and the people who say he's learned something since the Decision are starting to look like they don't have a clue.
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I am not sure I agree with that. Like you said, this hysteria is all media-driven, and why should he have to rush his decision just to make the media and other free agents happy? He should be able to make his decision, no pun intended, without feeling rushed or like he has to do it quickly to appease a city, the media or fans.
There is a report out there now that says that if the Dan Gilbert letter had never happened, LeBron to Cleveland would already be a done deal, so I wonder with all of this Cleveland talk out there, if James wants Gilbert to give a public apology of sorts for it before he decides to go there. Kind of like, "Okay, I am prepared to come back, but I need a public apology first." All Gilbert would have to do is express regret over his irrational letter and say he'd love to have LeBron back on his team, and boom, it would happen. But, as this drags out and Gilbert says nothing, that might be pushing James back to Miami. That is what my gut says. It looked like Cleveland two days ago, but as this drags out more, it looks more likely that he'll go back to Miami.
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I didn't know that the NBA is actually run by 1 guy who, apparently cannot make a decision for crying out loud. A guy who desperately wants to be MJ and he'll never be MJ, it's a joke now. :tdwn
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I didn't know that the NBA is actually run by 1 guy who, apparently cannot make a decision for crying out loud.
Should we all have to rush decisions in life if the media goes hysterical over what the said decision will be?
A guy who desperately wants to be MJ and he'll never be MJ, it's a joke now. :tdwn
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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I didn't know that the NBA is actually run by 1 guy who, apparently cannot make a decision for crying out loud.
Should we all have to rush decisions in life if the media goes hysterical over what the said decision will be?
He has an entire month to think about it since the end of the Finals. I wouldn't exactly call it a rush. The longer he holds out, the crazier the media would go.
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That's not his fault. Blame ESPN and social media.
Also, it will be hilarious irony if he doesn't go back to Cleveland because of Gilbert's letter.
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Boom goes the dynamite. (https://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/11/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers)
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Hey, he announced it! :lol
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The essay he wrote in SI is really great. Frames his decision in an interesting way.
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I never thought he'd do it, but there it is. I was dead wrong.
Also, I love that he gave the scoop to SI, not ESPN.
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What's Miami plan B now? :lol
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After the last time, he pretty much HAD to avoid doing it on ESPN. This is how he should have left Cleveland.
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LeBron was trying to do the opposite of The Decision. The SI presentation is inherently classy. Jason Collins came out there. Remember when we talked earlier in the thread about ESPN should want to have a classy brand? This is why. You want the biggest story of the year to be broken on your publication. You don't get that when you have Chris Broussard writing bullshit "rumors" about why things are held up.
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WOW. I got chills reading that letter.
ALRIGHT PHIL, MELO S&T TO CLEVELAND FOR WIGGINS LET'S DO THIS
lol
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LeBron was trying to do the opposite of The Decision. The SI presentation is inherently classy. Jason Collins came out there. Remember when we talked earlier in the thread about ESPN should want to have a classy brand? This is why. You want the biggest story of the year to be broken on your publication. You don't get that when you have Chris Broussard writing bullshit "rumors" about why things are held up.
Very true. :tup :tup
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In all seriousness a Kevin Love trade is probably coming. Flip could get a better package than what Boston or Golden State could offer.
Anthony Bennet
Dion Waiters
Scott Hopson
Andrew Wiggins
One or two 1sts
I'd want that more than Klay or Boston's draft picks.
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Houston is gonna be SO good if they land Bosh.
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I loved that Lebron letter, he has won my heart. No more hating from me.
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Houston is gonna be SO good if they land Bosh.
The problem is they might dump Terrence Jones to do it. Houston doesn't need a great bench, but you can't win a title with no bench either. Maybe they're hoping to do what Boston did in 2008 and find great vet min guys.
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Really interesting possibility that's been considered by no one (I only just saw it on Twitter) - What if Deng resigns in Cleveland? They have his Bird rights, so the cap doesn't metter.
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Let me preface this as saying that I am a relatively new sports fan.
Lebron hooked me onto basketball. I live in south FL and my first basketball game was watching the Finals between the Heat and the Mavs. I was hooked instantly. Of course, they lost but I went on to watch many Heat games and cheer them on. I rooted for the Heat because of Lebron and my roommate being a Heat fan...if that makes me a bandwagoner in your eyes, screw you. I was genuinely watching basketball for fun and had no idea at the time that the Heat were the big team that could be bandwagoned on. It just felt right to root for them based on location and the roommate and because Lebron hooked me.
It's been absolutely thrilling watching Miami win two back-to-back. This year's season didn't feel as powerful or as fun. Kinda just coasting along. I rooted for the Heat but I give the Spurs props for absolutely dominating the sport in a way that gave me goosebumps.
With his decision, not ever experiencing the decision but only being lured into being pretty addicted to basketball, I feel slightly betrayed by LBJ. I know exactly why he left, I get it, but apparently I've really grown attached to my team and this stings. Feelings over logic, you know? I am fucking glad we got all 4 years of Lebron and that I was able to witness a PORTION of that before he returns to CLE. It's a mixed emotional bag.
With that said, I will get over it and watch him lead the Cavs with a great curiosity. I will still root for the Heat, no doubt, but I am also a Lebron fan. How could I not be? If both teams make it to the playoffs, I root for the Heat and for Lebron. It's weird, and maybe that will change, but I don't know how to feel at the moment as a fan.
ANYWAYS...this has been interesting.
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This isn't quite the same, but as a Boston fan the Pierce/KG trade really sucked. And watching the Celtics this year without either them or Rondo playing was really hard. You want to think you're the most badass diehard sports fan ever, but the experience of watching the games is an unfortunate dose of reality.
I have no idea what you want out of your sports fandom, but if watching the Heat without LeBron is tough, don't feel bad about that. It doesn't make you less of a basketball fan.
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This isn't quite the same, but as a Boston fan the Pierce/KG trade really sucked. And watching the Celtics this year without either them or Rondo playing was really hard. You want to think you're the most badass diehard sports fan ever, but the experience of watching the games is an unfortunate dose of reality.
I have no idea what you want out of your sports fandom, but if watching the Heat without LeBron is tough, don't feel bad about that. It doesn't make you less of a basketball fan.
I appreciate this post. I will still watch the Heat. It may be tougher but I will do it. Always wanna see how talent and team chemistry develops.
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I think that is pretty normal for a sports fan. Hell, my interest in baseball and the Cardinals shot way down when Albert Pujols left for the Angels a few years ago, and while I was back on the bandwagon for the playoffs the last two years, especially when they made the World Series last year, I just don't care that much about baseball anymore. Granted, I sort of hopped off the baseball bandwagon in the early 90s when other interests like music, girls, etc. kicked in, but the greatness and excitement of Pujols for a solid 10 years was always riveting, and it just isn't the same without him now. Sure, I still hope they do well, but even though I love him as a player, when I heard about Yadi Molina's injury yesterday, my reaction was simply, "Bummer," which aggravated a friend of mine when I texted that back, as she was baffled as to why I wasn't a basket case like she was regarding the injury. I just don't care that much about baseball anymore. I suspect many Heat fans will be experiencing the same thing in the next few years.
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It'll be interesting to see what happens to Miami now.
The last handful of posts do a good job of illustrating why I'm a little wary of professional sports in general and tend to gravitate towards college sports more. There's just so much maneuvering in the league, and it's hard for me to get really committed to a team while knowing that a lot of the pieces drawing me initially may not be there in a couple years. There are some exceptions of course, and it also opens up plenty of new windows as you can follow your favorite players as they move through the league, but ultimately there's just a little too much jockeying and business-oriented decision making for me to get as invested as I might otherwise. And while college sports teams are obviously constantly recycling players, at least you don't have to worry about your favorite players going to play for another, possibly rival, team every offseason.
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HOLY CRAP!!! I never thought he would return until that trade involving the Celtics. Damn Good for LeBron.
Sorry James, my friend. I know you and I did not see this coming.
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Woj: Lin to Lakers.
I've been down on Morey lately, but if he gets Harden, Dwight, and Bosh in consecutive offseasons, I think he earns back his top 5 GM ranking.
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What's Miami plan B now? :lol
Suck
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Dwyane Wade is gonna fly to Germany, and get the Kobe treatment so he can become 06 Flash again. 5th straight Finals appearance incoming :hat
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What's Miami plan B now? :lol
Suck
They've apparently offered Bosh the five year max. He'd be dumb to take the money though. He can win with the Rockets.
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So it's now a two-team race for Melo with the Knicks and the Bulls, which increases S&T leverage for Phil & Co. I think he'll be back, but I can live with getting some building blocks in return.
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Melo really needs to consider the Bulls if he cares about winning. If LeBron went to Miami, he could have spent a couple seasons building up in New York while the Heat farted around. With LeBron in Cleveland with a possible Love trade incoming, Melo doesn't have that luxury. Cleveland could be a juggernaut for a long time. A Bulls team starring him, Rose, and Noah is his only option to compete.
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It will be interesting to see who Cleveland can get for Wiggins and their picks. Seems to me like there's a zero percent chance they keep Wiggins.
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Danny Ainge is so good at trading that the league actually changed the rules to stop him. (https://www.shamsports.com/2014/07/consideration-in-trades-and-trade.html)
I'm only 22% joking. Every rule addressed in the memo pertains to something Ainge has done within the last year.
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LeBron was trying to do the opposite of The Decision. The SI presentation is inherently classy. Jason Collins came out there. Remember when we talked earlier in the thread about ESPN should want to have a classy brand? This is why. You want the biggest story of the year to be broken on your publication. You don't get that when you have Chris Broussard writing bullshit "rumors" about why things are held up.
Very true. :tup :tup
Yup. You think LeBron is going to give the story to the same network that basically pays a guy (Skip) to crap on him all day?
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Honestly if Rose isn't Rose then Chicago will just be a slightly better version of their 2011 selves with Melo.
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I'm absolutely thrilled for the Cleveland sports fan. That city deserves a championship, so hopefully James helps them get one.
But hold your ground Cleveland, because this is coming: (https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t1.0-9/10487239_830666296944089_6582653196108635304_n.jpg)
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LeBron was trying to do the opposite of The Decision. The SI presentation is inherently classy. Jason Collins came out there. Remember when we talked earlier in the thread about ESPN should want to have a classy brand? This is why. You want the biggest story of the year to be broken on your publication. You don't get that when you have Chris Broussard writing bullshit "rumors" about why things are held up.
Very true. :tup :tup
Yup. You think LeBron is going to give the story to the same network that basically pays a guy (Skip) to crap on him all day?
Well, he did back in 2010, but he's obviously learned his lesson. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think I've ever seen him allow himself to be interviewed on PTI (which always gets high profile players and coaches), and if he has, it hasn't been much. And PTI is probably their most popular "talking sports" show. It wouldn't surprise me if he has a lot of contempt for ESPN, although he'd never say it, for obvious reasons.
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LeBron understands how to control his public image. His Twitter is devoid of anything worth talking about. He tries to present himself the right way in interviews. When he made The Decision 2.0, he kept it shrouded in absolute secrecy.
If LeBron went on a show like PTI, someone would ask a question meant to trap him or make him look dumb. Someone would say something vaguely insulting that he wouldn't be able to reply to.
He doesn't need to participate in that kind of garbage.
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Cavs don't want to give up Wiggins for Love. Idiots.
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Cavs don't want to give up Wiggins for Love. Idiots.
That's the Cavaliers we know and love!
But seriously, I hope they don't do it. Means Boston still has an outside chance.
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Why should they when they can just wait for Love to join in 2015? Minnesota are idiots for not taking the trade and losing Love for nothing.
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Honestly if Rose isn't Rose then Chicago will just be a slightly better version of their 2011 selves with Melo.
You need to take the chance though.
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Why should they when they can just wait for Love to join in 2015? Minnesota are idiots for not taking the trade and losing Love for nothing.
The Cavs wouldn't have the cap space to sign Love unless they traded away salary.
EDIT: And now the Warriors don't want to include Thompson again!
Please Golden State and Cleveland keep low-balling Minnesota so that Flip is forced to take Boston's offer. You guys can do it. I have faith.
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I can't believe Cleveland won't give up Wiggins. Raw, unproven talent for a top 10 (top 5?) player who is TWENTY FIVE YEARS OLD? Any day of the week, my god.
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Woj: Bosh to Miami.
....................
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I hate Pat Riley so much.
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I hate Pat Riley so much.
In moments like this I totally agree. He's going to sign Bosh and Wade to outrageous contracts and ensure years of mediocrity. The Heat can't really tank because they owe their 2015 1st to Cleveland. But they could still keep a clean cap sheet.
I have no idea now how the Heat will improve. Riley's fucked up two teams (The Heat and the Rockets) because of his Riley mojo. Thankfully James was smart enough to see through it.
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(https://media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/413/948/2948413.jpg)
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It's true. I just can't understand Bosh's motivations here.
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Deleted.
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Given how the east sucked last year and not seeing any East teams getting a lot better with the exception of the Cavs, Miami could still make it to the finals if they give Bosh a bigger role and Wade can stay uninjured.
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It's true. I just can't understand Bosh's motivations here.
I can. Bosh gets to be "the guy" again, stay in Miami, which, by all accounts he absolutely loves, and get paid more, for an extra year. I still hate Pat Riley, but it's understandable.
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He also gets to stay in the East, which means he doesn't have to go against top-tier competition every night.
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lmao
(https://i.imgur.com/jJf6CGr.jpg)
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Thanks King and everybody
And now Bosh stays...these feels
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234238/Isaiah-Thomas-To-Suns-On-Four-Year-$27M-Sign-And-Trade-With-Kings
The Suns just got better if only they could attract a superstar caliber player they could potentially be a contender.
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(https://i.imgur.com/BdMSn2N.jpg)
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I was away for a few hours, came back and read all the posts; and here are some of my thoughts on today's event.
1) With LeBron suddenly acts all loyal... oops, I mean returns to the Cavs, it is in fact a good thing for the East as a whole. I thought the balance of power is now slightly more even. Instead of just the Heat and everyone else, I can see a somewhat competitive east with at least 4 or 5 evenly matched teams in the Pacers, Cavs, Bulls, Heat and the Wiz in that order. And that is a good thing for the NBA. :hat
2) With virtually zero chance of landing Melo, and the very likelihood K-Love would join LBJ in Cleveland whether he got traded there or not, why did we (Lakers) still only offer a low-ball 2-year $20M to Pau? Sure, I can see the management wants a clean deck when Kobe's deal is up in 2 years. Still, can't we offer at least a 3-year deal with a partly guarantee for the 3rd year or something like a team option? Jim Buss is cheap! >:(
3) I don't mind having Lin for a year. After all, without Pau and Melo, we ain't competing for anything, so why not get a few more million bandwagon fans from China and Taiwan?
4) One thing is for sure, I will still root for Pau! And if he is signing with the Spurs?! Wow! I think I might root for them for a repeat.
5) It will be very interesting to see what the Rockets might do next. Match or don't match? How are you going to salvage the Asik mess, if in the end his proposed trade to the NOP doesn't happen.
6) I really don't give a rat ass where Lance Stephenson is going. Lol! :lol
That's all for now.
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4) One thing is for sure, I will still root for Pau! And if he is signing with the Spurs?! Wow! I think I might root for them for a repeat.
I would be intrigued in how Pau would fit in Pop's system. He would be deeper big man than Splitter, who has vastly improved this past year. He is also an excellent passer out of the high post. However, we don't need him. He would be just a luxury to an already establish team. That, and I don't know if we can give him a solid enough contact at this moment especially after retaining Diaw and Mills, and also holding onto Duncan and Ginobli.
If the Bulls can't land Melo, then they gonna plop a lot of $$$ to Gasol's way.
EDIT: I'm not dismissing him by any means. If we weren't absolutely stacked now, with him in the mix, we're almost guaranteed another title! Pop would have be like a kid on Christmas day playing with these rotations
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Rockets sign Trevor Ariza for 4 years/32 million. Solid recovery from not getting Bosh. And they still have a bit more cap room to work with before they have to match Parsons (if they do at all still).
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Melo is returning to the Knicks. Good for him and good money to be made there, but by returning to the Knicks instead of joining the Bulls, I will never believe his claim for wanting to win and compete at the highest level. :hat
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Ugh.
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So old man Pierce is joining the Wiz on a 2-year deal, eh. :hat
https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11208931/paul-pierce-washington-wizards-agree-two-year-deal
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If you're KG, at this point, what do you even do? Show up and collect a check for 82 games, make it (at best) to the ECSF, and go out with little fanfare, or pursue a trade to any of the 12-15 other teams who have a much better shot at a title than the Nets do?
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How many years left does KG have on his contract? 1?
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Yeah https://www.spotrac.com/nba/brooklyn-nets/kevin-garnett/
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Garnett is clearly just trying to get one last paycheck. If he could just retire and still get the $12 million, I think he'd do it in a heartbeat.
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What does the future look like for the Nets? They seem to be in the same sort of position the Knicks were in last year. I think they have their first round pick in 2016? What about after that? Do they trade Brook away for some future assets if he has a good season or re-sign him?
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The Nets' situation is really dire. Let's look at their future first round picks:
2015 - Atlanta can swap
2016 - Boston owns it unprotected
2017 - Boston can swap
2018 - Boston owns it unprotected
So they're going to have trouble getting help from the draft.
They have 66 million in committed salary during the 2016 season according to Basketball Reference. This might give them a slight bit of cap room depending on how much the cap grows next year, but not enough to do anything significant.
Finally, they have three more years of Deron William's albatross contract (pays ~20 million per year), two more years of Joe Johnson at ~24 million per year, and two more years of Brook Lopez at ~16 million per year. Unless you find a really gullible trade partner, these contracts aren't moving.
So for the next two years, the Nets have no way to make any meaningful roster moves. And they don't have an unmolested 1st round draft pick until 2019.
If you're a fan, it's time to strap in.
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...............................
wow
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Also wow: Rockets don't match Chandler Parsons's offer sheet from Dallas. Apparently it constricted their roster flexibility too much.
I feel really down on Morey right now. Traded Lin and a 1st round pick for cap space that ended up not really mattering. Didn't get Bosh. Didn't get any other big superstars. And even though they'll have a good amount of cap room left, I'm not sure what they're going to do with it. To win a title, you have to be over the cap. I don't see how the Rockets get there. I guess they'll sign role players who can turn into good trade assets maybe?
In retrospect, I think he should have taken the Asik for Lee/Bass/Clippers pick deal from Boston. Beverly/Harden/Parsons/Jones/Howard/Lin/Lee/Bass/additional center is a pretty nice and deep team.
As for Dallas, they have a really nice team now. Probably not a contender, but no one wants to play them in the playoffs.
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The Rockets went from being a contender to a fringe playoff team in a span of a couple of weeks. Crazy free agency period right now.
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The Rockets went from being a contender to a fringe playoff team in a span of a couple of weeks. Crazy free agency period right now.
Agreed, but it is still not as bad as my Lakers. :lol
I am fully convinced my Lakers will suck for years to come to no end! Ever since Jim Buss took over the daily operations, not only we have been making dumb deals over and over, we also have been losing our own major FAs left and right (D12, Pau); plus we've attracted any major FA to sign with us since we signed Metta World Peace in the summer of 2009! No one wants to come and play in LA?! That's unheard of until now... geez, Jim Buss will be the next most hated NBA owner! >:(
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Not counting resigning their own, Artest is the only major free agent who has signed with the Lakers in the 21st century, and he wasn't a star at that point anyway, so free agents not going to LA is not a new thing. I know it's fun to blame Jim Buss, but Lakers fans probably need to accept the reality that Kobe Bryant is not a guy most stars want to play with.
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Not counting resigning their own, Artest is the only major free agent who has signed with the Lakers in the 21st century, and he wasn't a star at that point anyway, so free agents not going to LA is not a new thing. I know it's fun to blame Jim Buss, but Lakers fans probably need to accept the reality that Kobe Bryant is not a guy most stars want to play with.
While I agreed Kobe ain't the best star to play along with, he isn't even half of the problem. I am telling you, I don't blame Jim Buss for fun, especially he is such a stubborn SOB who seems to make poor decision all the time.
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Not counting resigning their own, Artest is the only major free agent who has signed with the Lakers in the 21st century, and he wasn't a star at that point anyway, so free agents not going to LA is not a new thing. I know it's fun to blame Jim Buss, but Lakers fans probably need to accept the reality that Kobe Bryant is not a guy most stars want to play with.
He's a huge asshole and he's not good enough anymore to back it up. I can't imagine where the problem would be.
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It's very telling how many teammates have left the Lakers on bad terms or even taken pay cuts to go to other teams. Not all of it is Kobe's fault, but a significant amount is. Say what you will about LeBron, but everyone who plays with the guy falls in love with him. Guys are taking pay cuts left and right to be on his team.
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I was reading This article (https://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-best-way-to-understand-daryl-morey/) about Daryl Morey on Grantland. The line below made me violently angry:
I used to be one of the people who loved watching Morey fail. He’s the cult leader of an NBA movement that often oversimplifies basketball and dismisses critics as simpletons.
I'm not trying to talk about how amazing he is. Right now, there's rumors the Rockets want to trade for Rondo. Rondo would not fit in well with that team. I don't know what numbers he has to say otherwise, but he's letting them lie to him. Or he is (as Sharp says) oversimplifying basketball and assuming that if you throw three stars together they'll magically mesh.
What makes me mad is two things:
- How is trying to use mathematics and data oversimplifying the game? To me, analysis like this (https://twitter.com/kirkgoldsberry) provides a far, far more sophisticated understanding of shooting than anything that's come before. Focusing on how role players make hard-to-detect contributions on the court is far more nuanced than talking about them as "energy guys," "blue collar players," and so on.
And to write this now is shocking when you consider that the power of analytics is so clearly proven. After having only the 11th and 10th ranked defense in the league in the 2011 and 2012 seasons, the Spurs used statistical analysis to change their priorities (more emphasis on contesting shots, less on rebounding). The Heat and the Spurs both emphasized three point shots and deemphasized offensive rebounding (because you give up too many points in transition).
The idea that stats people wanted to just make the game about numbers is a straw man. No serious thinker ever thought that. This brings me to the other thing that annoyed me.
- He talks about how critics of analytics are dismissed as simpletons. Well, when I read arguments this ridiculous, what else am I supposed to think? In this Grantland article (https://grantland.com/features/the-toronto-raptors-sportvu-cameras-nba-analytical-revolution/) about the Raptors using advanced stats, here's how various people in the organization respond to it:
Dwane Casey, Toronto’s head coach: “It’s a good backup for what your eyes see.” Casey added, “It may also shed light on something else,” a sentiment both Nori and Sterner echoed at points. “But you can’t make all your decisions based on it, and it can’t measure heart, and chemistry, and personality.”
Sterner: “It helps reinforce your gut. Most of the time, your gut is pretty much right.”
Nori: “More than anything, it’s a tool to help confirm what your eyes see.”
They're refusing to have their philosophies challenged by it. They're dismissing it by saying "oh, we already know that stuff because our guts are so finely tuned."
Karma has a way of working out I guess. The Raptors last season had the 11th highest three point attempt rate in the league, so Casey ultimately wised up when his job was clearly on the line.
And if you look at the best coaches in the league, they all know this stuff and coach their teams based on it.
So when the critics of using stats to understand basketball are mainly protecting their own egos, talking about all the things it can't do (that no one's saying it can), and talking about the virtues of non-evidence based decision making, how are they not being simpletons?
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I think that it's wrong to say that stats tell the whole story of basketball, but I'm even more vehement that it's wrong to think your eyes are a better resource. In some ways, I think that stats are overused, but in others, I think they're still underutilized. Every time I hear someone say "Kevin Love's not a winner", I die a little inside. Stats like Real-Plus Minus make it clear the Timberwolves excel with him on the floor; problem is they play in the West and they get throttled when he's on the bench.
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The funny thing, Reap, about your post, is that aside from the part you quoted, that article is bordering on hagiography :lol Grantland sure loves its dork elvis.
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I think that it's wrong to say that stats tell the whole story of basketball, but I'm even more vehement that it's wrong to think your eyes are a better resource. In some ways, I think that stats are overused, but in others, I think they're still underutilized. Every time I hear someone say "Kevin Love's not a winner", I die a little inside. Stats like Real-Plus Minus make it clear the Timberwolves excel with him on the floor; problem is they play in the West and they get throttled when he's on the bench.
It's like you're inside my head.
-J
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Carlos Boozer is getting cut to make salary cap room for Chicago!
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So Lance Stephenson earlier thought the Pacers' $44M / 5-year offer was low-ball, but he is now signing a similar deal for only 3 years with the Hornets?! I just don't get it. :yeahright
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So Lance Stephenson earlier thought the Pacers' $44M / 5-year offer was low-ball, but he is now signing a similar deal for only 3 years with the Hornets?! I just don't get it. :yeahright
LOL. I'm torn about this. Lance will probably make the Hornets better, but you worry about him destroying the locker room.
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On second thought, if the Hornets pick up his 3rd season, he will be 26 when he becomes a free agent again, and he can conceivably sign 2 lucrative deals for a total of 10 years during the rest of his career......it is probably better than becoming a free agent at the age of 28, sign a 5-year deal, and get a smaller deal at the age of 33... that's the way I look at it... I mean, the Pacers' offer is pretty much identical to the Hornets' in terms of annual value... of course there is no guarantee that he will get his max deals down the road, but I guess they are taking a calculated gamble. :hat
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What the hell is Indiana's plan?
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What the hell is Indiana's plan?
Easy. Continue to lose to either the Heat or now the Cavs in the playoffs, lol. :lol
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What the hell is Indiana's plan?
Easy. Continue to lose to either the Heat or now the Cavs in the playoffs, lol. :lol
For a small market, although it might be sad to say, that's not a bad plan. I do think the Pacers will feel Lance's loss though. He was one of their few offensive sparks.
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Nahhh. How hard can it be to hold opponents to 83 ppg so you can squeeze out 43 wins?
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This is the best thing for Indiana. Maybe their culture can go back to what it was when they were so successful.
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I thought I remember hearing that there is only so much they can do cause of contracts other guys have, making it difficult to pay big bucks for free agents. Granted, they offered Stephenson around 8 mil a year, but who knows why they didn't make any moves.
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They could have bought out Scola to create cap room.
I think the psychology is this - Bird wanted Lance back, but he knew how much of a problem he could be. So what he was trying to signal to Lance was - we want you back but on our terms. We aren't going to under pay you, but we aren't going to take apart the team just to pay you more. We need to know for certain you want to come back for reasons beyond the money.
And it didn't work out. I doubt Bird is very unhappy about this.
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Obviously I have no evidence for this, but I think the culture problem is overstated. They're a worse team without him. PG can't do everything on offense every game.
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Obviously I have no evidence for this, but I think the culture problem is overstated. They're a worse team without him. PG can't do everything on offense every game.
True, but they will start Turner who can put up some points and they can try to include Hibbert and West a bit more. Maybe Geroge They have C.J. Miles now who can provide some scoring off the bench, not a lot but it's helpful. And maybe Hill will start playing at a closer level to the one he had in the Spurs (?).
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We are starting to make a killing in free agency! We've just signed Ed Davis! The same Ed Davis the Grizzlies were so high on originally. So much so they gave up Rudy Gay for him, only to find out he is better off sitting on the bench. Yay!! :metal :lol :facepalm: :'(
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Obviously I have no evidence for this, but I think the culture problem is overstated. They're a worse team without him. PG can't do everything on offense every game.
Agreed. Lance was, a lot of times, their best offensive player and an integral defensive cog.
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The Pacers are signing Stuckey, that will help them with their offense a bit. I think
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What's Reggie Miller doing right now?
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Ok, so we got Boozer for cheap ($3.25M). At that price I ain't complaining. Plus, either I missed something, or those LA writers are idiots; Ed Davis is described as an above average defensive specialist. They said the Grizzlies actually allowed more than 5 fewer points per 36 mins when he is on the floor. Well, if that's the case, our front line of Randle, J-Hill, Davis, Kelly and Boozer though cheap, but respectable. Now we just need an idiot as coach to complete the drama… oh wait, Byron Scott is still waiting by the phone. :lol
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Not that D'Antoni did a good job coaching the Lakers, but at least he was interesting. He coached some great Suns teams in the past. Why would they have fired him when they obviously didn't have a clear succession plan?
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Probably caved to outside pressure, but he was horribly bad nonetheless.
And it looks like the Lakers will continue to be bad this year. Kobe's contract is not helping but I honestly don't blame him for taking it; 16 years of superstar, hall of fame, production, 5 championships, millions upon millions of dollars in revenue for the franchise, get your money.
And if they're gonna suck, they have to suck hard! If their draft pick is not a top 5 one, they'll lose it to the Suns. :/
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Which isn't going to be an option with a healthy Kobe on the team. They won't be *that* bad, no way.
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Yep!
A healthy Kobe and Randle would be too good for their own good.
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Sure, but Boozer rhyms with loser :lol :facepalm:
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If the Cavs actually get Love, essentially dealing Wiggins to become immediate contenders, things might get interesting.
-J
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And wouldn't you say Minny is gonna have to deal Love before the season starts? Else potential suitors are just gonna wait and outright sign him as a FA. If Cle is actually putting Wiggins on the table, don't you say yes in a heartbeat? What deal are they going to get that is better?
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^My thoughts exactly. If they want to come away from it with anything, they better unload him now. I don't know whether another team could make a superior offer, but I actually read that (allegedly) the T-wolves are more interested in Tristan Thompson than Wiggins. Wtf?
-J
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I think they want Klay Thompson from the Warriors and are just using Cleveland to put the pressure on Golden State.
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Cavs and Warriors don't have the cap space next year to sign Love as a free agent.
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I think they want Klay Thompson from the Warriors and are just using Cleveland to put the pressure on Golden State.
If that's the Thompson they were referring to, that would make a little more sense! :lol
-J
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Interesting article on Lance not resigning with Indiana. (https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/kravitz/2014/07/20/kravitz-larry-bird-understand-lance-stephenson-bolted/12916949/)
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Was waiting for the contract details to come out, but whatever - I like Boston's Evan Turner signing. Low risk high reward.
Ainge is sorta playing the middle road between Morey's strategy (be competitive every year) and tanking. Unlike Morey, Ainge is willing to make the team worse to get long-term assets. By unlike a tanking team, Ainge is willing to make improvements to the team if he's getting or cashing in a high-value asset (the Sixers have a lot of cap space, but signed no meaningful free agents because they want another top three pick).
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Lakers offer their head coaching job to Byron Scott.
Lakers fans, you don't deserve this.
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I guess they couldn't wait any longer for Doc Rivers to quit Sterling.
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So after Kevin Johnson literally drops everything to help the players respond to the Donald Sterling incident, their union pushes him out of the process to appoint a new executive director (per Woj).
And they wonder why the owners killed them during the last CBA negotiation. Their union is a joke.
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Lakers offer their head coaching job to Byron Scott.
Lakers fans, you don't deserve this.
What's done is done. As a Lakers fan, I have accepted this hiring long ago (all other candidates are jokes, and why didn't the Lakers talk to Jeff Van Gundy?), as well as mediocrity for years to come. :hat
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I guess they couldn't wait any longer for Doc Rivers to quit Sterling.
Maybe I am a cynic or something, I just do not buy this bluffing by Doc and CP3. They won't really sit out. They will eventually find a "reason" to play. Their statements would've been much much more powerful and louder last spring in the playoffs than this fall... IF they do sit out. :hat
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I guess they couldn't wait any longer for Doc Rivers to quit Sterling.
Maybe I am a cynic or something, I just do not buy this bluffing by Doc and CP3. They won't really sit out. They will eventually find a "reason" to play. Their statements would've been much much more powerful and louder last spring in the playoffs than this fall... IF they do sit out. :hat
^I'm skeptical too. Frankly I don't think Doc gives a shit about Sterling or his antics; I suspect he's experiencing some external pressures to give an ultimatum like this, especially at this juncture.
-J
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Two things about Doc and Sterling worth nothing:
1. After Doc negotiated the Bledsoe for Reddick/Dudley trade, Sterling tried to kill if after it had been agreed upon. This is a huge no no in the NBA, because teams and players make personnel and contract decisions based on these handshake agreements. He actually threatened to quit the Clippers then, and was able to convince Sterling to let the trade through. There are also rumors that Sterling didn't want to do the trade because he thought it a mistake to pay a white player 8 million per year. This is very easy to believe.
2. Doc basically ran the Clippers organization (getting grief counselors for employees, talking to the league on the team's behalf, etc.) as well as coached them during much of the 2014 playoffs. While I'm sure he appreciates the power and goodwill he earned, I also don't think it was work he was totally happy to do. Apparently he didn't sleep much the whole time. And I think he viewed what happened as a distraction that potentially cost them a title.
I'm not saying he'll actually step down if Sterling is the owner. I'd bet against it. But it's on the table. You have to suspect there are a lot of hard feelings toward Sterling on Doc's part.
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I guess they couldn't wait any longer for Doc Rivers to quit Sterling.
Maybe I am a cynic or something, I just do not buy this bluffing by Doc and CP3. They won't really sit out. They will eventually find a "reason" to play. Their statements would've been much much more powerful and louder last spring in the playoffs than this fall... IF they do sit out. :hat
^I'm skeptical too. Frankly I don't think Doc gives a shit about Sterling or his antics; I suspect he's experiencing some external pressures to give an ultimatum like this, especially at this juncture.
-J
I think along the same lines as you two.
While I completely understand why none of the Clipper players/personnel sat out a game in the playoffs it would've made a much better statement than just wearing the warmup jerseys inside out. Had they done that and forfeited/lost a game in that series, I think Sterling would be much quieter now (unless he's truly insane).
Right now, I think both are just posturing and bluffing. I don't think either will miss even a quarter of any game this year because of this whole shitstorm.
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So Byron Scott is officially the new Lakers' head coach, and he said that's a dream job. The last time a guy called his new gig a "dream job" was Larry Brown with the Knicks. And we all knew how that went down. :lol :facepalm: :omg: :yeahright
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Since NBA talk has died down recently ...
Assuming the Cavaliers get Love and Rose is 100% healthy, how do you see the East panning out? My prediction would be:
1. Bulls (won't need as much adjustment time)
2. Cavs (will need a lot of adjustment time)
3. Pacers
4. Raptors
5. Wizards
6. Hornets
7. Hawks
8. Knicks
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I think the Pacers fall down to 5/6. Other than that, I think that's pretty realistic. Don't know about the Knicks making it, but I'm not sure if Brooklyn is really gonna be better than them this year.
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No Heat? Hmm, do you think they will be THAT bad this year?
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To me: Cavs, Bulls, Raptors, Wizards are in and the rest is a toss up.
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No Heat? Hmm, do you think they will be THAT bad this year?
I think some have this misguided belief that Wade will just go back to being the top dog there, when in reality, his body continues to break down, and he was only able to sit out so much last year cause they had the best player in the world to do all of the heavy lifting and get them to the 2 seed and later the finals. With no LeBron there, if he misses a lot of time, they'll be dead in the water, and even if he manages to play most of the games, I don't see them winning more than 40-45 games, and even that might be generous. They might still be a playoff team in the sad East, but they are a one-and-done playoff team most likely.
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The Heat will make the playoffs because east. But I doubt they'll make it out of the first round. The Bulls, Cavs, Wizards, and Pacers are actually a decent top four.
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1.Cavs
2.Heat
3.Wizards
4.Bulls
5.Raptors
6.Pacers
7.Hornets
8.Hawks
Looks like it's going to be another season of lets overrate the Bulls :lol
Edit:Knew I was forgetting someone :lol
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Raptors?
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Lol forgot about them :facepalm:
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I forgot about the Heat. LOL. I'm going to assume Wade misses at least 20 games here.
1. Bulls (won't need as much adjustment time)
2. Cavs (will need a lot of adjustment time)
3. Pacers
4. Raptors
5. Wizards
6. Hornets
7. Heat
8. Hawks
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Paul George just suffered a nasty leg injury during the US game.
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That was horrific to watch. My goodness. :(
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:-\
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I HATE the Pacers, but fuck this sucks. And holy crap at that break, like that guy Ware or whatever his name is
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I watched the Kevin Ware video and it was horrific and sad. Not sure I'm ready to see this one.
Terrible.
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I saw Kevin Ware break his leg on live TV. I ain't watching this.
Thoughts to PG and his brothers on the court who had to witness that.
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Saw a low resolution GIF of what happened. Mistake.
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Yeah this is up there with Ware's injury. Only that Ware's was worse in a gruesome way cause of his bone sticking out and all that. But this is just as bad and terrible to have to happen to anybody. And a big loss for some time to all of basketball.
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I didn't see the Ware injury but I saw this one and it was pretty shocking. I feel really bad for George and hope that he can come back from this.
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I was reading some internet doctors who were saying clean breaks aren't the worst thing to recover from. Like it takes a while, but ligament damage is seen as worse.
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I saw the Ware injury live too, this one was just as bad to watch.
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I read all about George's injury, but I am trying to avoid watching the video... I don't think I can take it.
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As gruesome as it was, it was probably only 0.3 on the Malarchuk scale, where 1 is Clint Malarchuk's injury. Word to the wise, DO NOT YouTube it.
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Yeah, but it's not the same type of injury gruesomeness, IMO.
PG was like "holy shit that's awful!"
Malarchuk was like "Holy shit he's gonna die!"
I don't know, I have no problem with just watching blood, but a mangled body is a totally different situation.
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As gruesome as it was, it was probably only 0.3 on the Malarchuk scale, where 1 is Clint Malarchuk's injury. Word to the wise, DO NOT YouTube it.
I understand the severity of both, but watching PG's was worse to me. Both are very crazy to watch, though.
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Yeah, but it's not the same type of injury gruesomeness, IMO.
PG was like "holy shit that's awful!"
Malarchuk was like "Holy shit he's gonna die!"
I don't know, I have no problem with just watching blood, but a mangled body is a totally different situation.
As gruesome as it was, it was probably only 0.3 on the Malarchuk scale, where 1 is Clint Malarchuk's injury. Word to the wise, DO NOT YouTube it.
I understand the severity of both, but watching PG's was worse to me. Both are very crazy to watch, though.
Yeah, Malarchuk is more shocking than anything else and bloody. PG's and Ware's is just horrifying cause you see there body parts move and do things that are not commonly seem and just gives you this feeling of pain all over your body for some reason.
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This video explains perfectly why the Warriors fired Mark Jackson. (https://youtu.be/qY6_bHropV8)
What Kerr is doing is using a combination of the triangle and the Spurs system to generate the kinds of looks his players need. Lots of three and cuts for the guards, and lots of rolling and passing action for the bigs.
Mark Jackson's Warriors didn't do this stuff.
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Mark Jackson's Warriors had God on their side though it doesn't look like Kerr's Warriors will have that same luxury. :biggrin:
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I'm surprised the triangle isn't more popular in general. BballBreakdown also did a video explaining how Fisher was using the triangle with the Knicks in order to set up Carmelo in the post. It has a reputation as an old-timey offense that was only good because Jackson had Jordan, Kobe, and Shaq in it. But the way these coaches are using it indicates the possibilities are much greater.
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Coach Nick has taught me so much about basketball offense. Love his videos.
Edit: I couldn't understand for the life of me why other Knicks fans wanted Jackson to be the next coach. We just sat through maddening years of having no offensive philosophy, do we really need more of that?
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Spurs have signed Becky Hammon to be the first female assistant coach in the NBA. :clap: :clap:
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The Clippers also had a female assistant coach on their summer league team. More broadly, I like how the female NBA coach thing is progressing.
There's no reason, in theory, why it can't work. But there are a lot of practical realities to deal with. By bringing in female coaches as assistants first, you can figure out how this works. What kind of woman will NBA players respect? Do women have to coach differently than men in general? If so, how? It would be a good thing for a woman to coach an NBA team, but it has to happen for the right reasons. So far, it's moving in the right direction.
Also, by being the team to do this, the Spurs again show the high caliber of their organization.
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Spurs have signed Becky Hammon to be the first female assistant coach in the NBA. :clap: :clap:
Congrats to the Spurs for such great move. Hmm… after the last Finals and now this, does anyone still think the Spurs are boring? :hat
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Spurs have signed Becky Hammon to be the first female assistant coach in the NBA. :clap: :clap:
Congrats to the Spurs for such great move. Hmm… after the last Finals and now this, does anyone still think the Spurs are boring? :hat
Never have. Its always fun when you're winning so respects to them.
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Spurs have signed Becky Hammon to be the first female assistant coach in the NBA. :clap: :clap:
Congrats to the Spurs for such great move. Hmm… after the last Finals and now this, does anyone still think the Spurs are boring? :hat
lol at thinking the hiring of a WNBA player as an assistant coach is legitimate excitement. No sexism intended either but regardless of gender the hiring of virtually any assistant doesn't really translate into actual excitement for the average NBA fan.
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I think it's awesome the Spurs hired a female, but part of me also thinks that it's unfair to her to make too big a fuss about it. She probably doesn't want to hear people yelling "The Spurs hired a girl w00t!".
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Definitely that. It's funny how accidentally sexist it comes across the way people rejoice in moments like this as if its Women's Suffrage II. The least sexist thing imo is to make no big deal of it because A) If men and women truly are equal, the expectation should be that gender shouldn't be an issue, positive or negative, in any hiring scenario and B) If we blow this thing up in the media and she ends up failing at the job then that'll probably make it even harder for the next woman to get an NBA gig than it would've been had this not been made into a media spectacle.
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Definitely that. It's funny how accidentally sexist it comes across the way people rejoice in moments like this as if its Women's Suffrage II. The least sexist thing imo is to make no big deal of it because A) If men and women truly are equal, the expectation should be that gender shouldn't be an issue, positive or negative, in any hiring scenario and B) If we blow this thing up in the media and she ends up failing at the job then that'll probably make it even harder for the next woman to get an NBA gig than it would've been had this not been made into a media spectacle.
Hear, hear.
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An interesting thing about the Knick's last two trade is that they've had subtle elements to them. The Tyson Chandler trade wasn't great, but it netted them a collection of minor assets that as a whole came out to be a good package. In their latest trade, the Knicks traded two player who are essentially empty salary (which they don't need) for two decent players whose deals don't negatively effect them long term (something they desperately need).
This isn't genius, but it is smart. Even if Phil is simply providing a vision to his basketball people and letting them work, it's worlds beyond what Dolan did.
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So in August 23rd: Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett and a protected 2015 first round pick will go to Minnesota for Kevin Love.
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So in August 23rd: Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett and a protected 2015 first round pick will go to Minnesota for Kevin Love.
Lol
Is Wiggins really supposed to be this good?
Also, Wiggins and Bennett weren't in LeBron's coming home letter. You can't make this stuff up.
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And in other news, Oden was arrested for beating his ex-girl friend. :lol Geez... what a dumba$$! :tdwn
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The Cavs will be a top five offensive team, a top five rebounding team, but possibly a below average defensive team. Best case would be the everyone focuses more on defense with less of an offensive burden and they creep into the top 12-15. Rim protection will be a problem no matter what.
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The real problem for the Cavs is that Varejao probably won't make it past December. If he could stay healthy, they'd easily be a title contender. As of now, they still have a center problem.
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Will LeBron get Love to play some D?
-J
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The real problem for the Cavs is that Varejao probably won't make it past December. If he could stay healthy, they'd easily be a title contender. As of now, they still have a center problem.
Without Varejao they're still probably a title contender because no one in the East will be able to touch them outside of the Bulls. They'd be screwed in the Finals though.
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The real problem for the Cavs is that Varejao probably won't make it past December. If he could stay healthy, they'd easily be a title contender. As of now, they still have a center problem.
Without Varejao they're still probably a title contender because no one in the East will be able to touch them outside of the Bulls. They'd be screwed in the Finals though.
If you're screwed in the finals, you're not a title contender. Every good west team has a way to score in the paint. Need that rim protector.
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KD pulls out of Team USA. How do you do that this far into it?
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KD pulls out of Team USA. How do you do that this far into it?
Before final cuts? As good a time as any.
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As if on cue, according to Yahoo, Cleveland is willing to trade a 1st round pick for a center.
If they can get someone like Koufos or Mozgov, it will be enough. They'll be in the running for the title.
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234555/World-Peace-Changes-Name-To-Panda-Friend
:rollin
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234555/World-Peace-Changes-Name-To-Panda-Friend
:rollin
:sadpanda: :sadpanda: :sadpanda: :facepalm:
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Wolves have it set up to trade Bennett for Thaddeus Young.
If true, this makes the Wiggins trade make a lot more sense.
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This video makes me feel so bad for Wolves fans. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3svPkthjWcM)
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The real problem for the Cavs is that Varejao probably won't make it past December. If he could stay healthy, they'd easily be a title contender. As of now, they still have a center problem.
Without Varejao they're still probably a title contender because no one in the East will be able to touch them outside of the Bulls. They'd be screwed in the Finals though.
If you're screwed in the finals, you're not a title contender. Every good west team has a way to score in the paint. Need that rim protector.
I could see them pulling it out against the Clippers. No chance against the Spurs though.
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In the least surprising scheduling news possible the Cavs will reportedly be playing at the Heat on Christmas day. The Clippers and Warriors will also reportedly be playing on Christmas day. As well as the Bulls hosting the OTHER team from LA. The entire schedule will be released tonight on NBA TV at 6 P.M. Eastern. :biggrin:
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Does the NBA just refuse to ever give Kobe the day off for Christmas? Who's actually interested in watching the Lakers past 2011? Also, there are a half dozen other teams from the western conference who'd make for a more compelling opponent for the Bulls.
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I remember James remarking a while back that he never gets Christmas Day off. I wonder what the NBA would do if James said, "I am gonna take that game off." I mean, they cannot force him to play, but they'd be scrambling to try to since they know ratings will be way down if the biggest star in the league took Christmas Day off.
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A real twist of the knife would be if he showed up as a spectator.
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There shouldn't be any games during Christmas or Thanksgiving and let the players enjoy the holidays with their families.
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And make us do what? Also enjoy the time with our families??? No way!
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And make us do what? Also enjoy the time with our families??? No way!
You can always play with your xbox/PS4/computer or something...
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I love me some christmas day basketball.
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NBA on NBC Parody. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEFazcLhY7k)
Colbert does the first part.
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1. NBA on NBC
2. NBA on CBS
3. NBA on TNT
4. NBA on ESPN/ABC
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234668/Harden-Im-The-Best-All-Around-Player-In-The-NBA
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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His defense is certainly all-time great.
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Kevin Love trade finally done:
To Cle: Love
To Min: Wiggins, Bennett, Young, 6.3M TPE
to Phi: Shved, Mbah a Moute, Miami 2015 1st rd pick
Analysis:
- Cleveland won this trade in epic fashion. Gave up only one first, a draft prospect, and someone who might be a bust for one of the ten best player sin the league.
- I hope Wiggins works out for the Wolves, because if he doesn't this was worse than the KG trade.
- Sixers keep hustlin'.
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I hope that the Cavs play a 2005 Suns-style offense and average like 120 PPG. :lol
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They might have to I don't think LeBron can carry that defense by himself :lol
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They might have to I don't think LeBron can carry that defense by himself :lol
This might be the first time I've ever completely agreed with you in this thread. :tup
-J
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We are exactly 2 months away from the opening night, yay!! Best of luck to all your teams, including that OTHER team in LA, formerly known as the Lakers. :lol
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I'm so pumped! We're also about a month and change from pre-season and NBA 2K15!
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For me, this is the worst time to be a sports fan. No significant moves are happening in the NBA. The NFL regular season hasn't started either. Nothing to do but read meaningless news articles.
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For me, this is the worst time to be a sports fan. No significant moves are happening in the NBA. The NFL regular season hasn't started either. Nothing to do but read meaningless news articles.
Fiba world cup starts tomorrow. That should keep you busy if not for the level of basketball at least for the lack of commercial pauses
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For me, this is the worst time to be a sports fan. No significant moves are happening in the NBA. The NFL regular season hasn't started either. Nothing to do but read meaningless news articles.
Fiba world cup starts tomorrow. That should keep you busy if not for the level of basketball at least for the lack of commercial pauses
I don't enjoy watching us play international ball that much because of how obviously the players aren't totally trying. Everyone keeps saying "oh Spain's so great, oh the Gasol brothers are this huge threat." No. The only question in those games is at what point during the fourth quarter the US will stop slacking and get a ten point lead.
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Agreed. US will win it without a doubt.
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Team USA is lucky the competition is non existent because I doubt Davis can carry that defense by himself. :lol
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I'm interested to see how the World Cup impacts guys like Davis and Irving. It's looking like Davis is going to average like 25 points, 12 rebounds, and 4 blocks a game next year.
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Team USA is lucky the competition is non existent because I doubt Davis can carry that defense by himself. :lol
While I somewhat agree...
the same can be said about the "World"
no Lebron, Durant, westbrook, Carmelo, Love, Paul, Howard etc.
even as he ages, Wade off the bench as a 6th man like the 08 Olympics
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Team USA is lucky the competition is non existent because I doubt Davis can carry that defense by himself. :lol
Heh.
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After Trading Love, Wolves Have Best Ever Week of Ticket Sales (https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11440598/minnesota-timberwolves-record-setting-week-box-office-kevin-love-trade)
A good reminder that NBA trades aren't just about making the best basketball decisions. Minnesota wanted these players so badly because they knew fans would get excited about a new youth movement.
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This morning I read an article on why Kareem might actually be the best ever, even over Jordan. It's incredibly geeky and in-depth but a great read if you're into this sort of thing. I thought some of you might enjoy.
This article will argue why Kareem Abdul-Jabbar can be easily considered the greatest basketball player of all time ahead of Michael Jordan. The article will discuss the following aspects of Kareem's career:
1) Statistical comparison in prime
2) Defensive impact
3) Longevity
4) Accomplishments
5) Competition
6) Intangibles/Luck
7) Perception of Kareem
8) Quotes on Kareem
9) Summary
1. Statistical Comparison In Prime – MJ vs. Kareem
We will disregard Mike’s Wizards days here as well as Kareem’s play from the 1981-1982 season onwards where he was 34 years or older. Note that Mike in 1997-1998 was 34 years old but he left basketball for almost 2 entire seasons. Both Kareem and Mike had played 12 years to these respective points (1981 and 1998, respectively) and their rookie years were comparable so it’s an excellent place to begin the comparison. Note that blocks and steals weren’t recorded prior to the 1973-1974 season so Kareem’s numbers there are probably underestimated since we're missing some of his best statistical years.
Regular Season Numbers:
Kareem: 28.1 ppg, 14.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.2 spg, 3.4 bpg on 55.6% FG and 58.9% TS
Jordan: 31.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.4 apg, 2.5 spg, 0.9 bpg on 50.5% FG and 58.0% TS
It’s pretty even. Kareem is slightly more efficient and rebounds and blocks a lot more shots. MJ scores more in volume and has a slight advantage in passing and a larger one in steals. It’s worth noting that Kareem’s USG% for the period is ~24% while MJ’s is around ~34%.
Playoff Numbers:
Kareem: 30.3 ppg, 15.7 rpg, 4.0 apg, 1.2 spg, 3.4 bpg on 53.3% FG and 56.9% TS
Jordan: 33.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 5.7 apg, 2.1 spg, 0.9 bpg on 48.7% FG and 56.8% TS
Stars are born in the playoffs! Same situation as with season numbers. It can go either way! Once again, MJ has a USG% disadvantage with ~36% vs. ~26% for Kareem.
Finals Numbers:
Kareem: 31.4 ppg, 14.2 rpg, 4.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 3.2 bpg on 54.8% FG and 57.7% TS
Jordan: 33.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.0 spg, 0.8 bpg on 48.1% FG and 55.9% TS
Once again very close to identical.
Overall, the two men were very even scoring-wise but Kareem had a much larger advantage in rebounding and blocks than MJ did in assists and steals. KAJ also handled the ball much much less than Jordan.
Did Jordan do better against the toughest competition? Let’s look at MJ’s playoff numbers against the Bad Boy Pistons, early 90’s Knicks, and Payton-Kemp Sonics, the 3 toughest defensive teams MJ faced:
vs. Pistons:
1988 R2 - 27.4 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 4.6 apg on 49% FG 55% TS
1989 CF – 29.7 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 6.5 apg on 46% FG 56% TS
1990 CF – 32.1 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 6.3 apg on 47% FG 56% TS
1991 CF – 29.8 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 7.0 apg on 53% FG 61% TS
vs. Knicks:
1991 R1 - 29.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 6.0 apg on 52% FG 60% TS
1992 R2 - 31.3 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 4.3 apg on 48% FG 53% TS
1993 CF - 32.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 7.0 apg on 40% FG 51% TS
vs. Sonics:
1996 F - 27.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.2 apg on 41% FG 53% TS
MJ still played very well but did struggle efficiency-wise especially against the Knicks in 1992 and 1993 and Sonics in 1996. His volume numbers were also lower against these 3 teams compared to his general playoff averages above.
Here are Kareem’s numbers (that I could obtain!) against the greatest defensive teams from his era. Numbers against Thurmond’s Warriors are incomplete.
vs. Knicks:
1970 DF – 34.2 ppg, 17.8 rpg, 4.8 apg on 55% FG 63% TS
vs. Lakers:
1971 DF – 25.0 ppg, 17.2 rpg, 4.2 apg on 48% FG 51% TS
1972 DF – 33.7 ppg, 17.5 rpg, 4.8 apg on 46% FG 49% TS
1974 DF – 30.0 ppg, 18.0 rpg, 5.0 apg on 57% FG 57% TS
vs. Bullets:
1971 F – 27.0 ppg, 18.5 rpg, 2.8 apg on 60% FG 63% TS (mostly blowouts so Kareem played few min)
vs. Celtics:
1974 F - 32.6ppg, 12.1 rpg, and 5.4 apg on 52% FG 56% TS
vs. Warriors:
1971 R1 – 29.0 ppg, 15.6 rpg on 49% FG 53% TS
1972 R1 - 22.8 ppg, 18.4 rpg, 5.4 apg on 41% FG 43% TS
1973 R1 – 22.8 ppg, 16.2 rpg, 2.8 apg on 43% FG 45% TS
Kareem had his struggles against Thurmond’s Warriors but generally got his own against tough defenses. It really seems like a push to me.
2. Defensive Impact
Both Kareem and MJ played on some all-time great defensive teams but in terms of who had more impact on that end, Kareem wins in a landslide. Kareem is a center and anchored a team’s defense in a way a perimeter player like MJ never can. He was intimidating in the paint, blocking tons of shots. Kareem is #3 all-time in regular season blocked shots and #1 all-time in playoff blocked shots. And that's without blocks being recorded in the first four years of his career that were his statistical prime. Jabbar is also a far-superior rebounder to Jordan which is no surprise.
Kareem’s Bucks led the NBA in opponent FG% for 4 straight years from the 1970-1971 season up to the 1973-1974 season, posting numbers of 42.4%, 42.0%, 42.2%, and 42.5%, respectively. The 42.0% is an all-time NBA record. Those Bucks teams had no all-team defenders apart from Kareem.
In terms of career all-defensive selections, Kareem trails only Duncan with 11 total selections. Had there been a DPOY of the year award in the 70’s and early 80's, Kareem would have won a couple considering how many times he anchored the best defensive teams in his era.
3. Longevity
Jordan and Kareem were both undisputed best players in the league for about 10 years. Kareem led the league in PER and WS 9 times each. MJ led the league in PER 7 times and WS 9 times. However, after those 12 years is where Kareem really separates himself. Jordan goes on to play 2 more unspectacular seasons with the Wizards while Kareem is a top5 player in the league for 5 more seasons after 1980-1981. He won a Finals MVP at age 38 and made 1st Team All-NBA at age 39. He leads his team to 4 more Finals and 2 more titles in this 5-year span as the leading scorer on the Showtime Lakers. Kareem has the best longevity of any career in NBA history and scored the greatest number of points. Only Karl Malone can approach his span of dominance.
4. Accomplishments
Kareem:
6× NBA Champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987–1988)
10x NBA Finalist (1971, 1974, 1980, 1982-1985, 1987-1989)
6× NBA Most Valuable Player (1971–1972, 1974, 1976–1977, 1980)
19× NBA All-Star (1970–1977, 1979–1989)
2× NBA Finals MVP (1971, 1985)
10× All-NBA First Team (1971–1974, 1976–1977, 1980–1981, 1984, 1986)
5× All-NBA Second Team (1970, 1978–1979, 1983, 1985)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1974–1975, 1979–1981)
6× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1970–1971, 1976–1978, 1984)
2x Scoring Titles (1971, 1972)
2x Rebounding Titles (1976, 1977)
4x Blocks Titles (1975, 1976, 1979, 1980)
1x FG% Title (1977)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1970)
3× NCAA Men's Basketball Champion (1967–1969)
Naismith College Player of the Year (1969)
2× USBWA College Player of the Year (1967–1968)
Jordan:
6× NBA Champion (1991-1993, 1996-1998)
6x NBA Finalist (1991-1993, 1996-1998)
5× NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991-1992, 1996, 1998)
14× NBA All-Star (1970–1977, 1979–1989)
6× NBA Finals MVP (1991-1993, 1996-1998)
1x Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
10× All-NBA First Team (1987–1993, 1996–1998)
1× All-NBA Second Team (1985)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988–1993, 1996–1998)
10x Scoring Titles (1987–1993, 1996–1998)
3x Steals Titles (1988, 1990, 1993)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)
2x Olympic Gold Medalist (1984, 1992)
1× NCAA Men's Basketball Champion (1982)
Naismith College Player of the Year (1984)
Kareem has a notable advantage in the number of regular season MVP’s, NBA Finals appearances, and all-star and all-NBA team selections. He also had what is widely appreciated as the best NCAA career of all-time. MJ has a very significant lead in Finals MVP awards and a DPOY which I want to discuss here.
Kareem was literally robbed of a Finals MVP award and denied another two through no fault of his own.
In the 1980 Finals, Magic Johnson got the award based only on his legendary Game 6 performance. Kareem carried the team through the series up to that point and averaged 33.4 ppg, 13.6 rpg, and 3.2 apg on 55% shooting and 58% TS while also registering 4.6 bpg. He was ROBBED!
Jerry West got the 1969 Finals MVP for being the best player on the court. Same should have happened with Kareem in the 1974 Finals where he put up by far the best numbers of anyone (32.6ppg, 12.1 rpg, and 5.4 apg on 52% shooting and 56% TS) and basically made 2 clutch plays to force OT in Game 2 (block on Cowens in the dying seconds) and win Game 6 (game-winning 17-foot skyhook over Cowens with 2 seconds left). If there was ever an argument for a losing player to win this award, this was it right here.
Finally, Kareem was the best player in the 1982 Finals on a very balanced Lakers team (Magic, Nixon, McAdoo…) but was inadvertently denied the MVP by his coach. In Game 3 and Game 5 which were blow-outs by LA and Philly, Kareem played limited minutes and took 12 and 6 shots respectively while other Lakers stars were left out on the floor. Magic ended up winning the MVP but any player could have won it.
Thus, Kareem did win 2 Finals MVP’s but should have won at least 3 and easily could have won 5 with the numbers he put up. MJ has an advantage here but it’s a minor one. The DPOY award wasn’t given prior to the 1982-1983 season. Had it been, given that Kareem led the best defense in the league for 4 straight years while in Milwaukee, he would have won a couple of these awards.
5. Level of Competition
Kareem faced much stiffer competition in the playoffs at both his position and in general than Jordan did. At SG, the best player MJ faced is Drexler and then there is a huge drop-off with guys like Dumars, Moncrief, and Ainge. Kareem faced all-time great 2-way centers like Wilt, Thurmond, Reed, Lanier, McAdoo, Walton, Gilmore, Moses, Hayes, Cowens etc. When you take into account that the league had fewer teams in the 70’s than in the 90’s, Kareem faced much tougher adversaries on a night to night basis.
In terms of the overall level of competition in their primes, MJ faced 3 top 20 players ever in the playoffs. One was Magic who was clearly on decline and whose team was decimated by injuries in the 1991 Finals. The other is Malone who had a much less talented team than Jordan. Stockton in 1998 was not much better than Kidd is right now. The final one is Shaq who actually beat MJ’s Bulls once in 1995. Other notables Jordan faced were Ewing, Barkley, Drexler and Thomas. Kareem faced older Wilt, West, Baylor, Thurmond, Barry, Reed, Frazier, Walton, Cowens, Havlicek, Hayes, Unseld, Erving, Moses, Sikma etc. Wilt (albeit past his prime), West, Baylor, Havlicek, Moses, and Erving are all top20 players.
6. Intangibles/Luck
Kareem transformed a 27 win Bucks team into a 56 win team in his rookie season and lost to the eventual champion Knicks despite outplaying Willis Reed by a large margin. In his sophomore season, far past his prime but still effective Oscar Robertson came to the Bucks and Milwaukee won 66 games and a title going 12-2 in the playoffs behind Jabbar.
Then, in the 1972 season, Jabbar again led the Bucks to 63 wins behind only what many consider the GOAT team of all time in the 1972 Lakers. Kareem put up monster numbers and despite popular belief destroyed Wilt in 5/6 games of the Lakers series putting up 35 18 and 5 on 46% FG/ 53% TS and holding Wilt to 37% FG shooting. However, 2nd option Oscar was injured in the series and couldn’t even put up 10 and 5. Role players McGlocklin and Jones played in the series but were greatly limited. The series was also controversial. Late In a close game in Game 6, Kareem blocked a shot which went off of West but hit the referee, preventing it from going out of bounds. The ball was given to LA. Kareem gave arguably the GOAT team of all time a run for their money all by himself.
After the 1973 season which saw the greatest disappointment in Kareem’s career where he was outplayed by Nate Thurmond (the only time in his prime anyone outplayed him!), Kareem again led the Bucks to the best record in the league in 1974 but Lucious Allen and Oscar were injured and the former didn’t play in the playoffs. Bucks still made quick work of LA and Chicago before facing Boston in the Finals. Kareem had a monster series against the Celtics (see above) but lost to them in a controversial Game 7. Cowens got his 5th foul at the beginning of the 4th quarter in Game 7 with a 3-point lead for Boston. However, referees allowed him to get away with a LOT OF HARD CONTACT down the stretch without fouling out and Boston squeaked by with a win. I watched this entire game and the officiating in the 4th quarter of this game was very much in favor of the Celtics. There are no ifs, ands and buts about it. Coincidence? Perhaps… but is still happened!
In the 1977 series against Walton’s Blazers, Kareem outplayed Bill by a wide margin (30.3 ppg, 16 rpg, 3.8 bpg, 61 FG% vs. 19.3 ppg, 14.8 rpg, 5.8 apg, 2.3 bpg, 51 FG%) but Lakers simply didn’t have enough guard play as both Kermit Washington and Lucious Allen didn’t play due to injury. Blazers’ guards embarrassed the Lakers as their backups couldn’t even get the ball across halfcourt in the face of full-court press late in games.
Finally, Kareem was the best player in the 1984 Finals but Magic made crucial mistakes throughout the series (“Tragic Magic”) and the Celtics beat the Lakers in Game 7 to take the title.
KAJ is probably the most unlucky player of all time and had a lot of breaks go against him. With more luck on his side, he could have challenged Russell’s 11 titles.
7. Perception of Kareem
History has not been kind on Kareem for many reasons. First, he played in an era where racial stereotypes were still common place. A black guy who converted to Islam and was the most dominant player in the league… it really is no surprise he wasn’t well liked back then. It is well documented that his matchups with Havlicek, Cowens, and Walton were always portrayed by the media as “good” vs. “evil” with Kareem being the latter. What makes things worse and which Kareem himself acknowledged is that during his early playing career, he was very aloof and rarely responsive to the media which brought him a lot of additional scorn from them. Playing with a charismatic personality that was Magic later in his career helped him become very well liked by the time he retired in 1989.
8. Quotes on Kareem
Bill Walton: "I lived to play against Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He was the greatest player I ever played against, by far. Better than Jordan. Better than Magic. better than Bird. Better than Dr. J. Better than the best of the best that I played against. Better than Rick Barry. He was my source of motivation for everything I ever did. Everything I did was to try to beat this guy. I lived to play against him, and I played my best ball against him. No matter what I threw at him, though, it seemed like he'd score 50 against me. His left leg belongs in the Smithsonian. And it wasn't just offense. He was a great defender and rebounder, a great passer, a wonderful leader. He was phenomenal. "
Jerry West: "We had two writers in L.A. that were killing him in the newspaper that should have been fired. It was unfounded bias. People expected more than he was doing. It was never enough. Those (Lakers) teams in the late 70s would have been lucky to win 20 games without him. Yet we were always in the playoffs. We just didn't have enough pieces."
Wilt Chamberlain: “I really needed help to guard Kareem. He is the only guy. "
Pat Riley: "Why judge anymore? When a man has broken records, won championships, endured tremendous criticism and responsibility, why judge? Let's toast him as the greatest player ever."
Nate Thurmond: “The first time Kareem came to the West Coast, he was playing against Wilt in Los Angeles the night before playing us in San Francisco. I needed an advantage. So I flew down and watched that game. I could see the moves he did against Wilt and what he liked to do best.
Larry Bird: Kareem was probably, with his size and his skyhook, the most dominating force in our league as far as getting a basket any time you want it."
Julius Erving: “Bill Russell is the greatest champion but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is the greatest player in the history of the game.”
9. Summary
Kareem vs Jordan
Offensive Play – EVEN
Defensive Play – EDGE KAREEM
Longevity – EDGE KAREEM
Accomplishments – EVEN
Competition – EDGE KAREEM
Who else scored 38 000 career points?
Who else played in the league for 20 seasons? (and made the All-Star team in all of them!)
Who else won 6 MVP's?
Who else played in 10 NBA Finals?
Who else anchored the best defenses in the history of the league?
Who else faced six top20 players in the playoffs in his prime?
Who else led a team to a championship in his 2nd year in the league?
Jordan didn't do any of those... Do you still believe MJ is definitely the GOAT?
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I've said for years that Kareem was underrated and that article sums it up well.
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I wouldn't call Kareem underrated I see most people ranking him at #2 where he belongs.
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Most people? ??? Jordan 1 and Magic 2 seems to be the consensus 1-2 now by a lot of people. And Wilt or Russell usually get the nod for highest-rated center. I remember when that whole LBJ/Mt. Rushmore conversation was going on; hardly anyone was saying Kareem when the question was posed as to which four would be on yours.
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So who are everyone's top ten players?
1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Paul
4. Curry
5. Westbrook
6. Love
7. Griffin
8. Carmelo
9. Harden
10. George
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1.LeBron
2.Durant
3.Paul
4.Curry
5.Love
6.Westbrook
7.Griffin
8.Howard
9.Melo
10.Davis
If D-Wade and Kobe are healthy this year both take spots in the top 5 easily.
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1. Duncan
2. James
3. Durant
4. Parker
5. Griffin
6. Westbrrok
7. Aldridge
8. Harden
9. Curry
10. Wall
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Can't argue with that I felt bad leaving Duncan out of the top 10 and now that I think about it I would probably put him in the top 10 instead of Howard.
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I'm not a Kareem apologist, but that's a pretty good article. As simplistic as it sounds, MJ's numbers being consistently as good or better than Kareem's gives him an edge in my book simply by virtue of his being a guard. And if I'm not mistaken, they averaged a very similar number of turnovers (despite them not being documented early in Kareem's career), which is surprising given how much more Jordan handled the ball. I also think some of the dudes the article lists as "all time greats" that Kareem faced are a real stretch (not all of them, obviously!), and he leaves out some of Jordan's notable competitors.
The guy makes a good case, but as with all of these things, some of the comparisons are just problematic to even attempt. Still, Kareem's amazing longevity is the one thing that can't be questioned IMO.
I readily admit that the versatility of dudes like Jordan, Magic, and LeBron is just more impressive to me than a 7 footer with an unblockable sky hook, no matter how dominant he may be. But it's certainly hard to fault anybody who ranks Kareem as their GOAT, even if I may disagree.
-J
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Both are GREAT in my book. Let's just say MJ's game is definitely "flashier", more marketable, and he came to the NBA at the "right" time; when the league is about to explode to the worldwide viewers.
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Hawks Owner Agrees to Sell Team Due to Racist Email (https://www.nba.com/2014/news/09/07/hawks-owner-statement-on-team-sale/)
The Sterling precedent has been pretty clearly set.
EDIT - Here's the email. Relevant parts bolded:
1. from day one i have been impressed with the friendliness and professionalism of the arena staff -- food vendors, ushers, ticket takers, etc. in our early years when i would bring folks from dc they were blown away by the contrast between abe pollin's arena and philips. some of this is attributable to southern hospital and manners but bob and his staff do a good job of training. To this day, I can not get the ushers to call me Bruce yet they insist on me calling them by their first names.
2. the non-premium area food is better than most arenas, though that is not saying much. i think there is room for improvement and creativity. Levy is our food vendor so we don't have much control but they have been good partners. i have wished we had some inconic offereing like boog's barbeque at the baseball stadium in balt.
3. our new restaurant, red, just opened so too early for me to give you my thoughts.
4. Regarding game ops, i need to start with some background. for the first couple of years we owned the team, i didn't much focus on game ops. then one day a light bulb went off. when digging into why our season ticket base is so small, i was told it is because we can't get 35-55 white males and corporations to buy season tixs and they are the primary demo for season tickets around the league. when i pushed further, folks generally shrugged their shoulders. then i start looking around our arena during games and notice the following:
-- it's 70 pct black
-- the cheerleaders are black
-- the music is hip hop
-- at the bars it's 90 pct black
-- there are few fathers and sons at the games
-- we are doing after game concerts to attract more fans and the concerts are either hip hop or gospel.
Then i start looking around at other arenas. It is completely different. Even DC with its affluent black community never has more than 15 pct black audience.
Before we bought the hawks and for those couple years immediately after in an effort to make the arena look full (at the nba's urging) thousands and thousands of tickets were being giving away, predominantly in the black community, adding to the overwhelming black audience.
My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites and there are simply not enough affluent black fans to build a signficant season ticket base. Please dont get me wrong. There was nothing threatening going on in the arean back then. i never felt uncomfortable, but i think southern whites simply were not comfortable being in an arena or at a bar where they were in the minority. On fan sites i would read comments about how dangerous it is around philips yet in our 9 years, i don't know of a mugging or even a pick pocket incident. This was just racist garbage. When I hear some people saying the arena is in the wrong place I think it is code for there are too many blacks at the games.
I have been open with our executive team about these concerns. I have told them I want some white cheerleaders and while i don't care what the color of the artist is, i want the music to be music familiar to a 40 year old white guy if that's our season tixs demo. i have also balked when every fan picked out of crowd to shoot shots in some time out contest is black. I have even bitched that the kiss cam is too black.
Gradually things have changed. My unscientific guess is that our crowd is 40 pct black now, still four to five times all other teams. And my further guess is that 40 pct still feels like 70 pet to some whites at our games. Our bars are still overwhelmingly black.
This is obviously a sensitive topic, but sadly i think it is far and way the number one reason our season ticket base is so low.
And many of our black fans don't have the spendable income which explains why our f&b and merchandise sales are so low. At all white thrasher games sales were nearly triple what they are at hawks games (the extra intermission explains some of that but not all).
Regardless of what time a game starts, we have the latest arriving crowd in the league. It often looks and sounds empty when the team takes the floor.
In the past two years, we have created a section of rowdy college students that has been a big plus. And we do a lot of very clever stuff during time outs to entertain the crowd. Our kiss cam is better done than any in the league.
We have all the same halftime acts that other arenas have but i question whether they make sense. people are on their cell phones during half time. i wonder if flashing on the scoreboard "$2 off on hot dogs during halftime tonight" just as the half ends would be a better use of our halftime dollars and make the fans happier.
We do all the usual giveways and the fans are usually their loudest when our spirit crew takes the floor to give away t-shirts. It pisses me off that they will yell louder for a t-shirt then for our players.
Our player intro is flat. We manufacture a lot of noise but because of the late arriving crowd and the fact that a lot of blacks dont seem to go as crazy cheering (another one of my theories) as whites, it is not great. Even when we have just returned from winnng four straight on the road, i am one of the few people in the arena standing and cheering when our team takes the floor. Bob has kicked around ideas like having the starters coming down aisles rather than off the bench during intros. Sounds cool but may highlight all the empty seats at the start of games.
Not enough of our fans wear hawks jerseys to games. i have just begun to push for ideas like discount food lines for folks wearing jerseys, special entrances, etc. I think we need a committed and perhaps incentivized fan club. We need to realize atl is simply different than every other city. Just adopting nba best practices is not enough. we have to create our own.
I am rambling and could probably go on forever. If you have any specific areas you would like my thoughts on, let me know.
Best,
Bruce
ps -- I have cc'd todd and ed so they can chime in with additional or different thoughts.
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I don't want to get too political, but from skimming the e-mail, it doesn't sound like the guy was being malicious. He was just being a business owner and tossing around some theories as to why people don't go to Hawks games. I dunno. I'm tired and don't feel like reading into this, but I feel like people are overreacting.
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This dude has repeatedly tried to sell the team in recent years. The league blocked the last attempt because it "wasn't in their best interest," but now in the aftermath of the Sterling uproar, the guy comes forward with this. It's hard not to see this for what it pretty obviously is.
-J
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This dude has repeatedly tried to sell the team in recent years. The league blocked the last attempt because it "wasn't in their best interest," but now in the aftermath of the Sterling uproar, the guy comes forward with this. It's hard not to see this for what it pretty obviously is.
-J
Yep, he took full advantage of the situation.
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Trash the blacks to get your finances in the black?
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This dude has repeatedly tried to sell the team in recent years. The league blocked the last attempt because it "wasn't in their best interest," but now in the aftermath of the Sterling uproar, the guy comes forward with this. It's hard not to see this for what it pretty obviously is.
-J
Ah. Makes more sense now.
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Yeah, the league's hands are sort of tied I guess. It's kind of an amusing situation. :corn
-J
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Zach Lowe's article on the situation is fantastic. (https://grantland.com/the-triangle/bruce-levenson-atlanta-hawks-email-team-sale/)
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What do you guys think of SI's list?
https://www.si.com/nba/2014/top-100-nba-players-2015-list#10to1
The only selection I vehemently disagree with is Duncan's. How can you be a top ten player when you only play 30 minutes per game?
Davis's selection is defensible because I think their list is predictive; they're trying to guess who the best players will be next year.
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The only selection I vehemently disagree with is Duncan's. How can you be a top ten player when you only play 30 minutes per game?
If you have the impact Duncan has in both sides of the court during those 30 minutes you can.
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The only selection I vehemently disagree with is Duncan's. How can you be a top ten player when you only play 30 minutes per game?
If you have the impact Duncan has in both sides of the court during those 30 minutes you can.
This.
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So Rex Chapman got busted for shoplifting?! Damn! That is so sad and lame...
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Note to Kobe. This is just a practice, do not hurt your own teammate. :lol
https://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/11637061/nick-young-los-angeles-lakers-undergo-surgery-tearing-radial-collateral-ligament-right-thumb
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noooooooooooo swaggy p!
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I watched several minutes of the Real Training Camp (LA Lakers) on NBA TV. Kobe looks good, and he moves around alright during some defensive drills; but his conditioning obviously needs some improvements. Still, I am just glad he at least looks healthy.
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/235089/NBA-Agrees-Upon-Nine-Year-$24B-Deal-With-ESPN-TNT-Through-24-25
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/235096/Cap-Could-Jump-In-Single-Season-More-Than-Previous-10-Year-Period
Even with this KD and Lebron will still be underpaid :lol
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TNT/NBA is the gold standard for sports league/network pairings. Best I've seen since pre-1994 NFL/CBS.
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The preseason game between the Knicks and the Raptors is one of the most painful things I've ever watched.
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The preseason game between the Knicks and the Raptors is one of the most painful things I've ever watched.
I watched the first half of it, and I know exactly what you mean. Then again, I thought the Knicks are still trying to figure out their version of triangle, and sometimes guys just don't know where should they go on the floor. They will get there, I think.
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We'll see. It didn't seem to me they were running a system at all. It looked like they were trying to run plays at first but it always ended in the classic hero ball or some useless ball movement leading to contested shots. Fisher has a lot of work to do if he wants this team to be anything other than horrible.
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/235303/Steve-Nash-To-Miss-Entire-14-15-Season
Looks like the end of the road for Steve Nash.
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Weak. He deserves so much better than this.
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Not having to go out playing with Chucker Kobe might be a blessing.
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Unfortunately, he couldn't even stay on the court. It's been pretty clear that he should retire since he arrived in LA.
It's too bad that nerve damage from picking up bags is "the last straw"!
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Weak. He deserves so much better than this.
Agreed. If he had stayed in Phoenix he probably would have been able to play these last couple of seasons and go out in style. Let's hope this damage is not something that bothers him for the rest of his life.
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Nash will be missed for sure.
BTW, guys, the season starts tonight!!! :metal
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Spurs win season opener! The Mavs gave us a good game though. They are not to be underestimated this season, I hate to say.
Bummer about Julius Randle. The Lakers seemed to be cursed with injuries.
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The Lakers injuries curse continues…
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/235405/Russell-Westbrook-Suffers-Fracture-In-Hand
Looks more like the Thunder's injury curse continues.
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The thunder might not finish in the first 4 spots. They are really screwed
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If the worst case happens, the Thunder might not make the playoffs! Insane!
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Derrick Rose is on the verge of becoming a 30 for 30 airing 10 years from now titled On the Wings of Icarus.
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I was amused at all of the "I am picking the Bulls to in the East this year IF Derrick Rose stays healthy" predictions this week. You know your prediction's in trouble when you have to add that kind of "IF" to it.
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So, 2 more games and Brooks will be on the injured list as well as the rest of the team. Thinks are looking south for OKC right now, they need some help from lady luck.
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The Cavs have been awful through 3 games. I'm getting the sense it will take them 20-30 games to figure things out versus 10-20 or some lower number. This is a project.
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Suns' defense was terrible! Allowing a 90-year-old man to score 39pts?! Lol! Geez... the Lakers lost, but what a game by Kobe! :hefdaddy :hat
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At least they didn't allow him to feed the homeless.
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The Cavs have been awful through 3 games. I'm getting the sense it will take them 20-30 games to figure things out versus 10-20 or some lower number. This is a project.
Can't say I'm shocked. Anyone with a modicum of sense knew that team chemistry wasn't going to happen overnight, but that didn't stop people in the media from calling James/Irving/Love "the Big Three" and handing them the Eastern Conference on a platter.
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The Cavs have been awful through 3 games. I'm getting the sense it will take them 20-30 games to figure things out versus 10-20 or some lower number. This is a project.
I think it's to be expected. They rebuilt their team almost completely and have a new coach who's never been in the NBA. What does surprise me is Lebron's level, he seems to be having as much trouble as the rest of the team adjusting.
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Apparently he stopped demanding the ball last night so that Irving and Waiters could learn that when they play one-on-one ball, the team will lose. That's all fine and dandy until you're like 1-6. :lol
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Man, the Pelicans almost gave it away to the Spurs with 1.6 sec to go. Instead of chasing that one last rebound, they just stood there after that Leonard miss from the left corner. Anyway, a win is a win, and I can see that team is maturing.
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Anthony Davis is averaging 24.4 points 12.8 rebounds 4.4 blocks and 2.2 steals :eek
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Anthony Davis is averaging 24.4 points 12.8 rebounds 4.4 blocks and 2.2 steals :eek
There is no doubt in my mind he is an all-star this year! :hat
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Both the LeBrons (aka the Cavs) and the Heat are playing .500 ball... who could've thought both teams would have the same .500 record by now before the season started?
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Probably everyone. I don't think anyone had Cleveland automatically being a great team from opening night.
They're contenders in the weak East for sure.... but it's gonna take some time and gelling.
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It's been so quiet on this thread, if I didn't follow the NBA, I thought we are in the middle of another lock out!! What's going on guys?
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This season feels weird. The Warriors and the Grizzlies are dominating the league which is not surprising looking at what they did last season. The Grizz might end up winning a championship this season, they look too strong and they have some good vets that can take them the whole way. The Warriors will probably do a good job in the playoffs but I can't imagine them getting the ring.
I'm still really annoyed by the huge difference between the east and the west. Toronto with a 16-6 record stands in the first spot while Dallas with a 16-7 record stands 7th. I don't think there's a lot of merit for east teams winning the title, the playoffs will be much easier on that side.
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God has finished laying the Pipe on OKC now, I think.
but he's definitely laying the pipe on the east and has been for years now. that toronto-dallas thing is nuts.
Is anyone else really excited to see AD and Demarcus Cousins playing really well? I for one would like to see more big guys break through like them.
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I've been liking the Grizzlies alot over the past few years already. It used to be just Z-Bo and a little bit of Marc Gasol, but they had no long range shooter whatsoever in the past... but this year, they look really strong and deep! The addition of Courtney Lee puts the aging T-Prince to the bench. Don't get me wrong, this alone is a good move! T-Prince is STILL a very capable defender and part-time scorer; coming off the bench just suits his game more these days. And then they also have VC off the bench! Ok, he has been kind of struggling a little this year, but he is still somewhat effective for around 15 mins a night. I'd love to see the Grizzlies to go deep.
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is anyone surprised the Knicks ar 4 - 20?
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Given the Celtics' jersey color, I'd have considered them more likely to go 4-20.
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(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qojk95C4rXQ/TTsqXfRm_8I/AAAAAAAAACk/djFilaezBIw/s1600/Knicks+Suck.jpg)
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Love him or hate him, congratulations Kobe!
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soon to be a household name....Giannis...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XXUASatoKB0
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God hates the Milwaukee Bucks. Jabari Parker done for the year with torn ACL.
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:-\ We'll have to wait and see how much of an impact this is to the team. They still have a very good chance of making it into the playoffs
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You only need around 35 wins to make the playoffs in the East, so the Bucks' chances look mighty good.
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So,
the ReaPsTA suicide watch Rondo trade watch is in full swing.
I suspect he'll be traded. The Celtics never had a good reason to before. When you're rebuilding, you need to get and keep star players.
But now, it's a huge gamble to bet on him playing at an all-star level consistently. Even worse, he's going to ask for a max contract. One of the other 29 teams in the league will give it to him. Given that, keeping him and signing him to a potential albatross contract would be a mistake. Let someone else do it.
I hope he lands in Dallas. They could really use his passing and defense. I think Carlise is a good enough coach to get through to Rondo.
EDIT: Tentative deal is Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder, Jameer Nelson, a 1st and a 2nd.
The Rajon Rondo era is over.
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So, Cuban is getting the award for best Owner and Don Nelson the award for best GM right?
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They've been killing it lately.
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Skeptical about the trade, I feel like the Mavs are trying to address a need that isn't there. Rondo is a gamble in a lot of ways: can a coach other than Doc handle his mood issues? Can he stay healthy? Will he encroach on Ellis's game? Giving up Brandan Wright is massive, NBA's highest FG% and one of the most efficient players in the league on both ends. Crowder was a good role player too, and multiple draft picks...just too much for this guy at a position at which you were already pretty loaded.
Hopefully I'm dead wrong and Rondo will average a triple double and the Mavs will win another title because of his presence! But it's hard for me to understand this move when the team was playing so well in its current state, in part due to guys dealt in the trade.
-J
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OKC can't seem to catch a break, Durant injured again though it doesn't seem to be an ugly one. Also, he played only 19 minutes and scored 30 on 10/13 while westbrook played 40 minutes scoring 33 on 11/30....
Do we all agree that Westbrook hurts this team more than he helps it?
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OKC can't seem to catch a break, Durant injured again though it doesn't seem to be an ugly one. Also, he played only 19 minutes and scored 30 on 10/13 while westbrook played 40 minutes scoring 33 on 11/30....
Do we all agree that Westbrook hurts this team more than he helps it?
No.
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Great game between the Spurs and Mavs! Despite the loss (with 4 main guys resting), the Spurs showed the world what great coaching is all about!! If the Spurs were playing a lesser team (e.g. the Lakers :biggrin: :lol), it would've been a Spurs win EASILY.
On the other hand, Ellis was playing great for the Mavs too. And I thought Rondo played very well in his Dallas debut. He did all the little things to help earned themselves a win for sure.
Hey, and did ya'll see this kid wearing a Celtics' Rondo jersey, and covered the word Boston with a piece of paper with the name Dallas on it? :lol
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Do we all agree that Westbrook hurts this team more than he helps it?
Westbrook is one of the most irrationally discussed players in the league. Most people seem to either reflexively defend him because of his work ethic and attitude or reflexively hate on him because of his poor shot selection and lack of on-court intangibles.
I tend to agree more with the anti-Westbrook camp, but wouldn't go so far as to say he's a net negative for the team.
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The obvious beef with Westbrook is that he is basically a shooting guard playing point guard, but a guy who puts up 20 points and 7 assists a game clearly helps his team more than hurts it, especially when you consider how many games the Thunder have won over the last five years. Much of that is obviously because of Durant, but one man cannot do it all. Westbrook is a big part of the success they've had over the years.
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The obvious beef with Westbrook is that he is basically a shooting guard playing point guard,
This is exactly why I think he hurts the team. I'm not dennying he's a great player and he helps the team win a lot but there are times when he handles the ball too much and doesn't make good decisions. And it's not entirely he's fault either, Brooks is the coach and he should try to modify that behaviour. I think the Thunder would do a lot better having Jackson starting as PG and Westbrook playing SG.
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But Jackson is really a score-first PG too. Plenty of teams have success with those type of dudes, the problem isn't that Westbrook is a PG who shoots too much. It's that he's wildly variable in efficiency, and he doesn't know when to rein it in. The guy is a freakish athlete who is really unstoppable when he's on, but on off nights it may take him 20+ shots to get his 20 points and you can be certain that starting the game 0-10 isn't going to make him think "maybe tonight is a night when I should focus a little more on distributing." Bottom line: his shot selection and decision making are atrocious at times, but Kev is right - he definitely helps OKC more than he hurts them.
As for the Mavs, maybe I stand corrected (and I hope I do) because Ellis and Rondo look like they may become a very, very dangerous combo in the backcourt. However, that was a pathetic showing by the Mavs against a totally gimped Spurs team...Ellis really bailed them out in the 4th.
Monta Ellis has my vote for the most underrated player in the league; I've thought so since he was with Golden State. Averaging 20-5-4 and almost 2 steals a game for his career, reliable and consistent on both ends, well-rounded, scores in a variety of ways and sees the floor well. But I don't think I've EVER heard his name mentioned outside of broadcasts of the games he's playing in. Criminal.
-J
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As for the Mavs, maybe I stand corrected (and I hope I do) because Ellis and Rondo look like they may become a very, very dangerous combo in the backcourt. However, that was a pathetic showing by the Mavs against a totally gimped Spurs team...Ellis really bailed them out in the 4th.
I'm not 100% sold on the Rondo/Ellis thing yet. They played well together because they basically traded off. Don't get me wrong, that's a good sign. It didn't look like they were competing in an egotistical way. Ellis deferred to Rondo for most of the game, and Rondo let Ellis have it when Ellis was going off like a mad man. There's no sign of dysfunction yet. But, so far, I've seen no indication that either player is dangerous enough off the ball to really make it work. Both of these players are good enough to make it work, but the process hasn't started yet.
Monta Ellis has my vote for the most underrated player in the league; I've thought so since he was with Golden State. Averaging 20-5-4 and almost 2 steals a game for his career, reliable and consistent on both ends, well-rounded, scores in a variety of ways and sees the floor well. But I don't think I've EVER heard his name mentioned outside of broadcasts of the games he's playing in. Criminal.
-J
Whenever I watch Ellis, he seems like a fucking beast. No idea why he doesn't get more attention.
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Pistons waive Josh Smith. I did not see that coming at all. I read Houston is interested in signing him.
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Pistons waive Josh Smith. I did not see that coming at all. I read Houston is interested in signing him.
He was shooting a poor 39.1% from the field, and only 46.8% from the line... I am sure there are other better and possibly cheaper players than Josh Smith in the market. :hat
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A couple of thoughts:
- While Westbrook has some legitimate flaws, he's still one of the better players in the league and makes the Thunder frightening. So far he's averaging 28/7/6 this year and OKC has been almost unstoppable offensively with him on the court.
- There's a growing pile of evidence that Kobe is basically a basketball cancer at this point. By himself, he's taken more contested midrange jumpers than 10 teams. His team is doing better from a +/- perspective with him on the bench. And now, last night, they beat the Warriors without him. Obviously last night's win was an anomaly, but it's hilarious to me how people are raving over Kobe's game when the dude's averaging 22 shots a game and only converting on 37% of his attempts. Truly my least favorite player ever and I will continue to bitch about him all year.
- The Hawks will soon come back down to earth, but I think they have as legitimate a chance as anyone to win the East. I think they are the only East team currently in the top ten in offensive and defensive efficiency.
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Kobe has a -0.005 WS/48 thats really all the proof you need that he hurts the Lakers more than he helps them :lol
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Every advanced metric paints a portrait of a basketball player who simply is not good.
17.6 PER, -.1 WS, -.005 WS/48, -1.1 BPM
And keep in mind that these stats don't measure defense very well, so Kobe is actually worse than these stats suggest.
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Well enough laughing at how bad Kobe is we will have plenty of time for that during the rest of the season.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/236007/Josh-Smith-Agrees-To-Sign-With-Rockets
Houston finally got that stretch 4 they were missing ;D
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Damian Lillard. What a player.
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I did not expect Atlanta to be playing so well...
I wonder if they will be able to make it out of the 2nd round
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https://www.nba.com/2014/news/12/25/2015-first-all-star-game-voting-returns/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpts
2. Kobe Bryant (LAL) 521,542
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Well enough laughing at how bad Kobe is we will have plenty of time for that during the rest of the season.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/236007/Josh-Smith-Agrees-To-Sign-With-Rockets
Houston finally got that stretch 4 they were missing ;D
Josh Smith is not a stretch four. he can't shoot.
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Well enough laughing at how bad Kobe is we will have plenty of time for that during the rest of the season.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/236007/Josh-Smith-Agrees-To-Sign-With-Rockets
Houston finally got that stretch 4 they were missing ;D
Josh Smith is not a stretch four. he can't shoot.
Thats the joke :lol
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Well enough laughing at how bad Kobe is we will have plenty of time for that during the rest of the season.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/236007/Josh-Smith-Agrees-To-Sign-With-Rockets
Houston finally got that stretch 4 they were missing ;D
Morey has this thing he'll do where he'll just sign stars because he believes talent will work itself out. Josh Smith at a couple million per year is a very worthwhile risk. If he works out, you'll be able to sign him at a fair contract next year. If he doesn't, you didn't lose much.
But, like you said, I don't really understand how Smith fits in with their three point oriented offensive philosophy. They also cut Tarik Black, a center with a lot of potential, to sign Smith, which makes no sense. Who's going to back up Dwight?
I'm not going to hate on Morey here. He got rid of Asik, Lin, and Parsons and somehow made the team better. He has a real touch for this GMing thing. But I still don't get the Smith signing.
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KG pulls a Lance Stephenson, and blew into David West's ear. :lol :lol :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjjIKsgnU40
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KG's got balls doing that to David West, but it's also a smart play because I'm sure he knew David West would react like that.
Edit: Dwyane"Flash"Wade is back :hat
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So sad to know Stuart Scott passed away. :-[
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How about them Pistons?! Suddenly looking decent (6 wins in a row), especially since they dumped Josh Smith, go figure. :hat How you Rockets fans liking J-Smoove now? :lol
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How about them Pistons?! Suddenly looking decent (6 wins in a row), especially since they dumped Josh Smith, go figure. :hat How you Rockets fans liking J-Smoove now? :lol
Yeah, I didn't expect that at all but it seems J Smoove was really hurting them. Maybe it won't be that bad for Houston since he's not playing that many minutes.
Let's also talk about the latest trade, I get why Cleveland would want Iman Shumpert but JR Smith is not a good player for them. NY got rid of some awful contracts and the winner here is OKC, they got the player they needed.
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Let's also talk about the latest trade, I get why Cleveland would want Iman Shumpert but JR Smith is not a good player for them. NY got rid of some awful contracts and the winner here is OKC, they got the player they needed.
The player Cleveland really wanted was Iman Shumpert. New York wasn't going to give up Shumpert for nothing but a 2nd round pick unless they also got to dump JR Smith's contract. To compensate for taking on a toxic contract/player and giving up a 2nd round pick, Cleveland got a 1st from OKC. They're by far the team taking the most high variance risk in this trade. If Shumpert and Smith pan out, they're much closer to being title contenders. But Shumpert might not be the same after his ACL injury and Smith might be constitutionally dysfunctional.
OKC essentially traded a heavily protected 1st for Dion Waiters. Not only did they get an asset for appropriate value, but they also have the flexibility to move Reggie Jackson, who seems like he's going to get a larger contract than OKC is willing to pay. This gives them a better position for the short and long term.
New York apparently didn't want to pay Shumpert's next contract, so they were looking to dump him. Even though they only got a 2nd in return, they also got to dump JR Smith, which is huge. For New York, the consequences of this trade are very clear - open up cap space and get rid of a toxic presence. It's not as high an upside trade as it was for Cleveland and OKC, but there's virtually no downside and the upside is guaranteed.
This wasn't a great trade for any team (especially for Cleveland), but it was a good trade and a smart trade. Every team involved addressed relevant needs, and none of them gave up too much to do so.
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According to Stein (generally a very credible source), the Cavs are very close to getting Mozgov. This would be their best 8 guys:
Irving
Shumpert
James
Love
Mozgov
Smith
Thompson
Marion
Not quite a title contender, but a lot closer than a week ago.
EDIT: Two 1sts for Mozgov. That's desperate.
EDIT 2: Both picks are heavily protected and no players are going out. Not great but not totally awful either.
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This would be a lot better if they still had Varejao now they just look desperate to find a replacement for him.
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What makes these moves a 3/5 instead of a 2/5 for me is that the players they got are quite young. Shumpert is 24 and Mozgov is 28.
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This would be a lot better if they still had Varejao now they just look desperate to find a replacement for him.
I presume this hurt their leverage with Denver a lot.
What makes these moves a 3/5 instead of a 2/5 for me is that the players they got are quite young. Shumpert is 24 and Mozgov is 28.
Good point. Thought Mozgov was older.
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At 27-8 the Hawks are looking good now, but the next 7 games should really tell us what the Hawks are really made of.
5 out of those 7 are on the road. Among those roadies are the suddenly hot Pistons, and they actually will face the Pistons TWICE during this 7-game period. Then there are the Raptors (I bet they too are circling this game in hope of re-gaining some ground on the Hawks), and the Bulls (@ Chicago will be their 4th game in 5 nights!). In between there are also the Wiz. Or, the #2-4 teams in the east during these next few games. Not exactly an easy period! :hat
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Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 24m24 minutes ago
Hearing that the Jeff Green-to-Memphis trade talks are heating up. Discussions between the Celts and Grizz, I'm told, getting more serious
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 21m21 minutes ago
Still hurdles to clear, I'm told, for Boston to consummate Jeff Green deal. But Grizz, at present, are most serious suitor for Celts forward
Before the Mozgov trade, a three team trade was being discussed involving Memphis sending Kostas Koufas to Cleveland, Boston sending Jeff Green to Memphis, and Boston getting picks from Cleveland and Memphis.
Given this, and knowing how Ainge handles trades, Boston will almost certainly be getting yet another 1st round pick.
I'm curious if the trade will just be Tayshaun Prince and a 1st for Green or if other elements will be included.
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When are the Celtics going to stop rebuilding and actually get a team that's good enough to go deep into the playoffs?
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When are the Celtics going to stop rebuilding and actually get a team that's good enough to go deep into the playoffs?
Gonna be a while now. Boston can't just trade for a star because there would be no motivation for one to stay. They'll have to spend their time leveraging their assets into a competitive team, and that could take a long while.
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Phoenix sending "a draft pick" to Boston for Brandan Wright. He's worth more than a 2nd so... A FIRST FOR BRANDAN WRIGHT? PLEASE???
EDIT: Omg yes yes yes.
EDIT 2: Not quite. It's Minnesota's pick that's top 12 protected the next two years, and if it's not conveyed it turns into two seconds. The Wolves are 5-29 so far this year, so unless they do something crazy next year the Celtics will only see two 2nds.
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Boston trading Green to Memphis for Tayshaun Prince and a 1st according to Woj.
Break it down Danny break it down!
How often does a team do two trades in one day?
EDIT: Third team involved.
EDIT 2/3: Final trade:
Memphis in - Jeff Green, Russ Smith
Memphis out - 1st, Tayshaun Prince, Quincy Pondexter, 2nd
Boston in - 1st, Tayshaun Prince, Austin Rivers
Boston out - Jeff Green
New Orleans in - Quincy Pondexter, 2nd
New Orleans out - Austin Rivers
Impossible to evaluate the trade for Boston and Memphis until we know what year the pick is and how it's protected. New Orleans though did well. Traded a player they don't like for a player they apparently have been interested in. Good stuff.
EDIT 4: Now, Celtics and Clippers are working on a trade to send Austin Rivers to LA for a 2nd rounder.
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What has the world comes to? Grandpa Kobe passes the ball?! A career high 17 assists?! :lol
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KD shot 14 for 18, 5 for 5 at the line for 36 points vs. the Warriors! That's NBA 2K15 kind of stats, lol! :lol
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What about Westbrook's Triple Double though? 17/17/15 :eek
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The Hawks played 4 ROAD games in 5 nights, including games at Toronto and Chicago; and they won them all!! :tup :hat
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The Hawks are amazing. I don't see the Wizards or my Raptors beating them in the playoffs, at least based on how things have gone the last month or so. Chicago and Cleveland have a chance if healthy.
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I'd love to see the Warriors make the Finals this year. Fucking Curry and FUCKING KLAY THOMPSON
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I'd love to see the Warriors make the Finals this year. Fucking Curry and FUCKING KLAY THOMPSON
I'd love to see either the Grizzlies or the Warriors in the Finals for the west. I think the Spurs' run is over this year.
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So that means the Spurs are going to make 3 straight Finals because whenever people start counting out the Spurs they prove everyone wrong.
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So that means the Spurs are going to make 3 straight Finals because whenever people start counting out the Spurs they prove everyone wrong.
Maybe. They have the potential to be the best but they are just not doing it right.
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So, the 4 players that will be participating in the dunk contest have been revealed and none of the players that were there last year were chosen. WTF? Last year's competition sucked because of the format they chose but there were some sick dunks. Now they invite Mason Plumlee? And I don't see the Greek Freak putting a good show either.
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The dunk contest is about as big of a joke as the Pro Bowl. :lol
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The dunk contest is about as big of a joke as the Pro Bowl. :lol
Syzz is correct. Week 3 of the NFL's preseason gives both of those a run for their money.
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Is this All Star game sort of cursed or something? Among all events this weekend, I counted at least 8 players are out due to injuries. The most I can recall. :hat
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It's gonna really suck for the Warriors to dominate all year, and then watch as the Thunder sneak in as the 8 seed and become their first round opponent. :lol :lol
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It's gonna really suck for the Warriors to dominate all year, and then watch as the Thunder sneak in as the 8 seed and become their first round opponent. :lol :lol
It would be sucky for the Ws, but good for the fans. :lol Besides, I'd love to see the Grizzlies to go far, very far this year. :hat
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Zach LaVine!! Wow!! :omg:
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Dude can hop, impressive showing. Oladipo's 540 at the beginning was particularly nasty too.
-J
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Dude can hop, impressive showing. Oladipo's 540 at the beginning was particularly nasty too.
-J
Yeah, I thought Oladipo was right up there to compete, but it looked like he ran out of gas QUICK!
And his attempt in getting Bill Russell to sign his game ball (prior to his first dunk in the second round), and then got rejected for it was funny! :lol Hakeem saved his face though. :hat
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That was not a 540. A 540 would entail 1.5 rotations and Oladipo clearly only did 1 full rotation.
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That was not a 540. A 540 would entail 1.5 rotations and Oladipo clearly only did 1 full rotation.
After watching the replay again, you're right. Guess I just heard everybody calling it a 540 and bought into the hype. :lol
-J
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This weekend I was talking with some buddies of mine about how, even in basketball, if your teammates suck, your team probably isn't going very far. Another way to look at it, I thought, was that if your teammates don't suck, you can get away with a bad game or two.
As I'm exhausted from a weekend of working, I decided to plop down in front of my computer and waste some time actually researching my theory using statistics. I thought I'd share what I found as it was pretty interesting.
I logged onto Basketball Reference and used their Game Score (GS) metric to identify Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, and LeBron's really bad playoff games, which I arbitrarily decided was a GS of 10 or below. Here are the results:
Shaq: 36 games, 17 wins
Duncan: 35 games, 17 wins
Kobe: 39 games, 15 wins
LeBron: 8 games, 0 wins
These results were pretty eye-opening. Based on GS alone, LeBron was by far and away the least likely of the bunch to have a bad game. The other three guys were about as likely as the next to play a stinker.
Whereas Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe were able to escape bad games with wins about half the time, LeBron's team has not once come out on top on occasions where he crapped the bed. Imagine how differently their careers might be perceived if, say, the Lakers weren't good enough to overcome Kobe's 6/24 performance in Game 7 of the 2010 Finals or if the Heat were able to emerge victorious despite LeBron's 8 point Game 4 in the 2011 Finals.
Obviously these numbers aren't perfect. Like any box score-based stat, Game Score misses out on a lot. For example, even when Duncan posted bad numbers, he probably made up for it by being the best defensive player on the floor. Also, there are times where it's unreasonable to expect a supporting cast to lift up their best player, such as... well... LeBron's Game 4 in 2011 (that was pretty bad).
Despite all this, I do think these numbers have some meaning, and as a guy who is very weary of the "rings equal greatness" cliche, they add a little more to my skepticism.
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Are those Lebron games strictly from his first stint in the Cavs? Or are some of them with the Heat?
EDIT: OK so at least one is from his time with the Heat.
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Are those Lebron games strictly from his first stint in the Cavs? Or are some of them with the Heat?
EDIT: OK so at least one is from his time with the Heat.
Here is the full list:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=jamesle01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=Y&round_id=&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_G=&pos_is_GF=&pos_is_F=&pos_is_FG=&pos_is_FC=&pos_is_C=&pos_is_CF=&c1stat=game_score&c1comp=lt&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/236807/Derrick-Rose-To-Undergo-Knee-Surgery-To-Repair-Medial-Meniscus-Tear
Holy shit this guy's knees have to be made from glass.
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D-Rose is done! He is Penny 2.0, yo! An ultra talented player who is robbed by constant injuries. So sad.
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RIP Anthony Mason... :sad:
https://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/12397807/anthony-mason-former-new-york-knick-forward-dies-48
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RIP Anthony Mason... :sad:
https://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/12397807/anthony-mason-former-new-york-knick-forward-dies-48
Wow, 48 years old. Used to love watching that dude play. RIP.
-J
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I don't know what the Thunder did to piss off the sports gods, but this just isn't their year. :lol :lol
Oh, and people can talk about Curry and Harden all they want, but James is the obvious MVP this year.
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I don't know what the Thunder did to piss off the sports gods, but this just isn't their year. :lol :lol
Oh, and people can talk about Curry and Harden all they want, but James is the obvious MVP this year.
Speaking of Harden and James, I don't know about you guys, but I thought Harden's kick to LBJ was a dirty play. Of course, when James himself is indeed one of the league's best floppers helped selling that call. :hat
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I don't know what the Thunder did to piss off the sports gods, but this just isn't their year. :lol :lol
Oh, and people can talk about Curry and Harden all they want, but James is the obvious MVP this year.
I think LeBron's still the best player when he's zoned in, but those guys have been a little better than him this season. Also, he's missed quite a few games.
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Yeah, the only obvious thing about the MVP race is that there's no one obvious choice as of yet.
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I don't know what the Thunder did to piss off the sports gods, but this just isn't their year. :lol :lol
Oh, and people can talk about Curry and Harden all they want, but James is the obvious MVP this year.
Speaking of Harden and James, I don't know about you guys, but I thought Harden's kick to LBJ was a dirty play. Of course, when James himself is indeed one of the league's best floppers helped selling that call. :hat
One-game suspension for Harden. Sounds about right.
I think LeBron's still the best player when he's zoned in, but those guys have been a little better than him this season. Also, he's missed quite a few games.
Right, but the Cavs are 2-9 without him, and 35-15 with him. And I think everyone knows not only how much they stunk before he got there, but that a lot of their additions they've made wouldn't even be in Cleveland if he weren't that. If that isn't most valuable, I don't know what is.
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I think LeBron's still the best player when he's zoned in, but those guys have been a little better than him this season. Also, he's missed quite a few games.
Right, but the Cavs are 2-9 without him, and 35-15 with him. And I think everyone knows not only how much they stunk before he got there, but that a lot of their additions they've made wouldn't even be in Cleveland if he weren't that. If that isn't most valuable, I don't know what is.
While that is true, you also have to take into account that the cavs didn't have JR Smith, Shumpert and Mozgov during the stretch of games Lebron was out. I'm sure right now the Cavs would be able to have a better record without Lebron because their team improved a lot with those additions.
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It's also sort of a catch-22 because in order for us to see just how valuable James is to the Cavaliers, he had to miss 11 games, which decreases his value relative to guys like Curry and Harden who have played in every game. :lol
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It's also sort of a catch-22 because in order for us to see just how valuable James is to the Cavaliers, he had to miss 11 games, which decreases his value relative to guys like Curry and Harden who have played in every game. :lol
As of tonight, Harden doesn't play in every game, lol! :lol
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It's also sort of a catch-22 because in order for us to see just how valuable James is to the Cavaliers, he had to miss 11 games, which decreases his value relative to guys like Curry and Harden who have played in every game. :lol
As of tonight, Harden doesn't play in every game, lol! :lol
Truth :rollin
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In all seriousness, it kind of sucks Harden is suspended for the game @ Hawks tonight. Or else this could potentially be an intense game between two of the better teams in the league. Of course, with or without Harden, D12 out anyway... guess I will be watching the Wizards @ Bulls instead... damn, can any of these star players (Jimmy Bulter is out) stay healthy for a change?
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When what Russell Westbrook has been doing gets him mentioned with the likes of Michael Jordan and Oscar Robinson, despite having the side of his face caved in, it's a pretty good indicator that he is absolutely incredible.
Add him to the list of dudes rightfully in the MVP conversation.
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When what Russell Westbrook has been doing gets him mentioned with the likes of Michael Jordan and Oscar Robinson, despite having the side of his face caved in, it's a pretty good indicator that he is absolutely incredible.
Add him to the list of dudes rightfully in the MVP conversation.
He has been the best player in the league this season when on the floor. Unfortunately he is part of a long list of guys who can't seem to stay on the court.
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RIP Jack Haley... What a shocking news! I mean, what's with all these seemingly still very young guys suddenly start dying?
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Please excuse me while I go on a mini-rant...
I just listened to a podcast with Bill Simmons and Ryan Russillo that featured a 15 minute discussion about how messed up the Cavs are and how the Love for Wiggins trade was the worst thing ever. I don't know why, but Simmons' basketball analysis this year has been borderline unlistenable. Wiggins will almost certainly be better than Love in two or three years, and Love hasn't been utilized properly this year, but Cleveland is still far better off with Love rather than Wiggins in the short term. I don't think the Cavs will win the title, and sometimes their coaching situation makes me cringe, but they're a threat and have a 70% winning percentage when LeBron plays. The "sky is falling" attitude of media guys kills me sometimes.
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Well, Bill Simmons would never come out and say the words "I hate LeBron James," but he hates LeBron James, just like he hates Peyton Manning. But it's not like he pretends to be impartial, so it's not a big deal.
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Well, Bill Simmons would never come out and say the words "I hate LeBron James," but he hates LeBron James, just like he hates Peyton Manning. But it's not like he pretends to be impartial, so it's not a big deal.
I've never gotten the sense that Simmons' hates LeBron, but I do think he can't help himself in the moment, something the great basketball writers like Zach Lowe are able to avoid. When Lowe talks about the Cavs, it's very much, "This team is flawed, but so are most teams in the league, and in general are doing fine."
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My local station is using fuzzy math and letting their homerism show, unless I am missing something. The sports updates yesterday were saying "the warriors are 40 games over .500!" Um...unless I misunderstand how the math works, that isn't true. Before yesterday, they were 53-13. That means they played 66 games. That means 33-33 would be .500. 53 wins puts them 20 games over .500. :facepalm: /rant
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My local station is using fuzzy math and letting their homerism show, unless I am missing something. The sports updates yesterday were saying "the warriors are 40 games over .500!" Um...unless I misunderstand how the math works, that isn't true. Before yesterday, they were 53-13. That means they played 66 games. That means 33-33 would be .500. 53 wins puts them 20 games over .500. :facepalm: /rant
Sounds like they didn't really think that one through.
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That's actually just the parlance. Saying a team is "X games over .500" means they would have to lose X games before they were at .500 again.
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If LeBron isn't the MVP then it has to go to Westbrook he's been playing beyond incredible :hefdaddy
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If LeBron isn't the MVP then it has to go to Westbrook he's been playing beyond incredible :hefdaddy
Curry? No?
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I'd have Curry and Harden at 3 and 4 I think way too much credit is given to Curry, and not enough to how great of a team he has around him.
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I'd have Curry and Harden at 3 and 4 I think way too much credit is given to Curry, and not enough to how great of a team he has around him.
If based on your reason above, I don't think LBJ should get the MVP this year at all. For one thing, aside from a few great games he put up, his performances this year have been up and down and very un-LeBron-like to say the least.
On the other hand, let's say we discount Curry from the conversation here; and with D12 virtually missing half the season thus far, there is NO WAY Harden is placed behind Curry!! I am not a Harden fan, but the Rockets are nowhere near as talented as the Warriors; thus I think he has to be the top 1 or 2 guys for the MVP race this year!!
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I personally think Stephen is the best player in the NBA Curryntly.
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I personally think Stephen is the best player in the NBA Curryntly.
I don't know if the best but he's sure as hell the most fun to watch, he's pure magic
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Salute to Steve Nash for his GREAT career. So sad it didn't work out in LA, but I always enjoyed watching him play. :tup
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Man, "F" leukemia, and I wish Sager recovers sooner than later.
https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12585171/craig-sager-tnt-leukemia-recurrence
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Not that I would ever advocate cheap shots, especially hitting someone below the belt, but there will come a day when someone hits Chris Paul in the nuts, and I won't feel the least bit bad for him.
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He's become so unlikable since he went to the Clippers! Maybe I had never noticed how much of a flopper he was before, but it's so bothersome since he came to LA.
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Yep, for one reason or another, he has become a cry baby since coming to the Clippers. So sad...
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What the hell?! I wish Copland is ok, but what the hell were Antic and Sefolosha were thinking? :omg: :facepalm:
Indiana Pacers forward Chris Copeland was stabbed in the abdomen and his wife was slashed outside a New York nightclub early Wednesday, police sources told the New York Daily News.
They were in stable condition at Bellevue Hospital, sources told the newspaper. The Pacers are in town to play the Knicks on Wednesday night.
The incident stemmed from an argument at the club as Copeland and others, including the suspected attacker, were leaving. It was not clear if Copeland was involved in the argument. A second woman also was stabbed. The attacker, 22-year-old Shezoy Bleary, was arrested, and charges against him are pending.
Atlanta Hawks players Thabo Sefolosha and Pero Antic also were at the scene and arrested and charged after refusing to move when police tried to establish a crime scene, sources told the Daily News. The Hawks play the Brooklyn Nets on Wednesday.
Copeland, a 6-foot-8 forward from New Jersey, played in 56 games with the Knicks during the 2012-2013 season, his rookie year. He signed with the Pacers in 2013 as a restricted free agent and is in the second year of a two-year deal.
https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12643882/chris-copeland-indiana-pacers-stabbed-new-york (https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12643882/chris-copeland-indiana-pacers-stabbed-new-york)
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WTF?
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Bot the Celtics have been pulling games out of their ass lately, clinging onto the 8th seed. Crazy week for them.
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Bot the Celtics have been pulling games out of their ass lately, clinging onto the 8th seed. Crazy week for them.
They "look" good now, but I don't think they will get it. After tonight's game against the Pistons, they face playoffs teams their remaining 4 games; and the Cavs TWICE during that span. The Pacers will have a slightly easier schedule, but they still face the Thunder and Grizzlies at the end. I think the Heat will somehow get in with their relatively easiest schedule. Only facing the Bulls and Raptors, and then the Magic and 76ers.
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Even if they get in they won't go anywhere but it's a step in the right direction.
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So, when's the NBA finally going to change the way teams qualify to the playoffs? Right now both the Spurs and the Clippers have a better record than Portland but still Portland is better postioned because their the number 1 in their division and that is just ridiculous.
Also, how thought is the South West division? All 5 teams are making the playoffs!
Even if they get in they won't go anywhere but it's a step in the right direction.
Agreed. Making the playoffs with their current personnel sends an interesting message and might help them getting a good free agent in the off season.
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That's exactly what I was thinking.
Brad Stevens is a very good young coach and he's not afraid to make the tough decisions. A good basketball mind. Things are looking up.
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So, when's the NBA finally going to change the way teams qualify to the playoffs? Right now both the Spurs and the Clippers have a better record than Portland but still Portland is better postioned because their the number 1 in their division and that is just ridiculous.
Why is that a problem? That's how it is in most sports: take care of your business in your own division, and you get a higher playoff position than other teams that might have a better record but did NOT win their divisions. I have no problem with that. It makes sense.
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So, when's the NBA finally going to change the way teams qualify to the playoffs? Right now both the Spurs and the Clippers have a better record than Portland but still Portland is better postioned because their the number 1 in their division and that is just ridiculous.
Why is that a problem? That's how it is in most sports: take care of your business in your own division, and you get a higher playoff position than other teams that might have a better record but did NOT win their divisions. I have no problem with that. It makes sense.
You do realize that this is not fair right? Both the Clippers and the Spurs are having a great season and are taking care of business. Portland is having a good season, not denying that, but they're being favored because the rest of the teams in that division suck.
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Of course it's fair. Portland didn't somehow rig the system to make their division less competitive this year. That's just how it played out. But Portland still did the work and won their division. San Antonio and L.A. played well, but they did not win their divisions. That is not Portland's fault. Nothing unfair about it. If playoff seeding was done by raw win/loss record, what if Portland got edged out by both teams, but it was clear that both teams got a lot of wins they "did not deserve" because, as luck would have it, they beat good teams during times when those teams had a lot of guys out for injuries? Would that be unfair? No. There is no perfect system either way because there will always be circumstances you cannot anticipate. But again, division leaders are given the advantage in playoff seeding in a LOT of sports, not just the NBA, and there is nothing "unfair" about it.
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Speaking of Portland, they are in serious trouble now. First they lost Matthews, and last night they lost Afflalo. Their post season maybe doomed before it begins.
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No talk of Curry beating his own record playing almost 6 less minutes per game than the season he set it in. :eek
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As a Hawks/Blazers fan, I can say that Portland is fucked.
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The Spurs!! Wow!! With the win over the Rockets, they jumped from the 6th seed to the 3rd!! This is how tight the west is. :hat
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The Spurs!! Wow!! With the win over the Rockets, they jumped from the 6th seed to the 3rd!! This is how tight the west is. :hat
They're in playoff mode right now, there's no stopping them.
No talk of Curry beating his own record playing almost 6 less minutes per game than the season he set it in. :eek
I knew he broke the record but I didn't know he was playing less minutes, that's unbelievable
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They're in playoff mode right now, there's no stopping them.
Like I said weeks ago, the Spurs are the only team I think can beat the Warriors in the playoffs with ease. They have size, low post games, great passing, great outside shooting and great coaching etc.; and these are exactly the elements needed to beat the Warriors. No disrespecting the Dubs, but the Spurs are the defending champs after all; they must beat the Spurs in the playoffs to truly tell the world they are legit. This spring will be fun! :hat
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C's are looking like they will make the playoffs. Nice.
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About to watch the Grizzlies @ Clippers. Should be a great one, as both teams NEED to win to secure their spots. If the Grizzlies win, they can secure their #2 seed, and if the Clippers win, they move up to #2 while the Spurs would fall back to #5.
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Without Tony Allen on D, and Gasol got hurt in the 1st qtr, the Grizzlies just fell apart toward the end.
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For the love of God, please do not let the Blazers play the Spurs :lol
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For the love of God, please do not let the Blazers play the Spurs :lol
As Azyiu said before, Portland's in trouble. Whether it's the Spurs, the Rockets, the Grizzlies or the Clippers, they'll probably go out in 4 or 5 games during the 1st round.
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The Spurs have "quietly" won 11 games in a row, and they are now the #2 seeded team out west... when right around the ASG, they were only 4-5 games above .500... :hat Before their current surge, I was high on the Grizzlies; but now? Just watch out for the Spurs!! :hat
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San Antonio are playing just like they did last season when they won their championship. Duncan is playing out of his mind right now!!! I was scared early this season when it seemed like we just couldn't gel, but we got our rhythm back and we have the momentum to attempt a repeat!!!
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For the love of God, please do not let the Blazers play the Spurs :lol
As Azyiu said before, Portland's in trouble. Whether it's the Spurs, the Rockets, the Grizzlies or the Clippers, they'll probably go out in 4 or 5 games during the 1st round.
Yes. WAY too many injuries. Losing Wes was huge
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Congrats to the Cs! I can't believe they reached the playoffs with the personnel they have, coach Stevens is doing an amazing job.
Talking about the west, I feel sorry for the Pelicans. I really want them to make the playoffs but they have to beat the Spurs or wait for OKC to lose against the Wolves which is very unlikely to happen
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Between the Pelicans and the depleted Thunder. I'd much rather see the Pelicans in the playoffs. :hat
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I am glad the Pelicans made it!!
Just a little trivia:
The Warriors became the 10th team in NBA history to win 67 or more games in a single season. Among the previous 9 teams, 7 of them won the championship, one reached the conference Finals, and only one didn't make it pass the first round. (06-07 Mavs) We will see how far the Dubs would go this year.
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Interesting matchups in the west. My pics:
GS vs. NOLA: Kudos to the Pelicans for clawing their way into the playoffs. No disrespect to them, but I think the Warriors are going to be too much. Warriors in 5.
Houston vs. Dallas: The Rockets have looked pretty good down the stretch. I think they take it in 6.
L.A. vs. San Antonio: This is the hardest one to call. San Antonio is hotter right now. But I hate L.A. ever so slightly less. Hmm... I think I still have to go Spurs on this one. Probably 6 games, but will feel a lot closer than 6 games in the Houston/Dallas series.
Portland vs. Memphis: Poor Portland. They are just too beat up to do this. And despite Memphis fading down the stretch, they are still a very good team. Grizz in 5.
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Bay Area should be insane in the coming weeks, this is gonna be a fun one to watch for sure.
*jumps on Dubs bandwagon*
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Woo! Playoffs!
EAST:
1 ATL vs 8 BKN
I was really hoping for Indiana to make it, because the Nets are just so not even interesting.
I fully expect a sweep here.
2 CLE vs 7 BOS
I expect a sweep here, too. But a fun sweep.
I'm interested in how the young guys on Boston perform, and don't forget this is the first time we'll see Kyrie and Love in the post season, as well.
3 CHI vs 6 MIL
As you can tell from my sig (which is completely outdated, I know), I'm a Chicago sports fan.
Being a Chicago sports fan, I'm quite aware that the Bulls have the potential to really suck at times for some reason.
They should still win the series, but I'm not confident enough to predict a sweep.
I do hope that this starts a neighbors-rivalry.
4 TOR vs 5 WAS
This should be the closest series in the East, but I'm feeling really meh about it.
I don't know why. I mean, you got Wall vs Lowry, Beal vs Derozan, Dwane Casey vs Randy Wittman.... oh, maybe that's it.
Also, maybe because the winner of this series is just going to get beaten by Atlanta.
WEST:
The matchups in the West did not shake out as I'd hoped. I wanted Spurs/Mavs, Rockets/Blazers, and most of all Grizz/Clips. :'(
1 GSW vs 8 NOP
I do like that the Pelicans made it over the Thunder though.
Similarly to CLE/BOS, I do expect a sweep, but a fun sweep.
Very much looking forward to playoffs AD.
2 HOU vs 7 DAL
Does playoff Rondo show up? Can Dallas stop Harden?
There is the proximity rivalry to spice things up, but I don't see the Rockets dropping this one.
3 LAC vs 6 SAS
I'm a big Tim Duncan fan. The matchups here are interesting. It would be a waste to have Kawhi on Barnes; I think we see him on CP3 while TP gets to hide.
Old Man River Walk against Blake? or will he try to keep Deandre off the boards? I don't know, I guess that's why I'm not Popovich.
I think this series'll be decided by the bench. Clips are sporting the likes of: Big Baby Davis, Hedo Turk o' glue, Austin Rivers.
What I'm saying here is that I think the Spurs win.
4 POR vs 5 MEM
I don't know how hurt either team is going to be. But if the Grizz have a healthy Conley and a healthy Gasol limiting Lillard and Aldridge, I'm not sure what the Blazers can do.
Plus, I want to see GS/MEM in the second round.
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I will be paying attention to both the Wiz / Raptors and Bucks / Bulls series. As I think those two (along with with the Clippers / Spurs) could go either way; and they all should be fun to watch!
Speaking of the Bucks, I think Jason Kidd deserves at least some recognition and be a COY candidate. He took over a 15-win team with virtually the same players from a year ago, and led them to 41 wins and a playoffs spot in the very next year! Sure, I know Kerr will win COY, no doubt, but whatever Kidd did was so underrated, y'all :hat
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Congrats to coach Bud. I think, while the Dubs won't 67 games in the season, the Hawks' performance and record were a surprise to all. No disrespecting Kerr at all, I think coach Bud deserves this COY award a 100%. And I am also glad those voters not as stupid as I once feared, and they voted J-Kidd as the #3 in the voting. :hat
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Damn Kyrie sure can shoot.
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I nearly had a stroke, but the Spurs pulled it off. They have such a clutch bench!
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The Thunder finally fired Scott Brooks it's about 3 years overdue, but at least they got rid of one of their biggest problems right now.
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Great win for the Spurs!! I love it!! :hat
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Dubs baby.
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Dubs baby.
What an improbable come back! Wow! No disrespecting the Pelicans, they will be very good in the future, but for now they still have to learn how to close games. :hat
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The restaurant I work at is kind of a Warriors place, and went fucking apeshit last night. Things could get really insane if the Dubs make a solid run.
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I turned to my roommate with, like, three minutes left, Warriors still down by 10, and told him they were winning this game.
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You know what the sad thing about that game? I believe pretty much everyone knew the pelicans were gonna lose once the Warriors sent it to overtime. :lol
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And that game was there one shot to take any semblance of control over the series. They're just plain fucked now.
Edit- just noticed the thread title change. Lol Floyd....
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The Spurs are sticking it up the Clippers', I love it! :metal :tup
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The Big Fundamental is now 39 today, and he is still playing at a high level. Happy Birthday to my boy Tim Duncan!
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Even though the Grizzlies are leading the Blazers 3-0, there are concerns with their PGs. Jon Leuer is hurt and didn't play in game 3, and Mike Conley was injured in game 3; and there is no words on his condition yet. :omg:
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That was a pretty blatant trap and pull on Love's arm there.
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That was a pretty blatant trap and pull on Love's arm there.
The NBA may need to review all these 4 games, and decide whether to suspend any of those refs who worked in these games. Or else stuff like that could happen again.
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That was a pretty blatant trap and pull on Love's arm there.
The NBA may need to review all these 4 games, and decide whether to suspend any of those refs who worked in these games. Or else stuff like that could happen again.
The Olynyk - Love play happens a lot and normally it ends in a foul call and that's it. Love had bad luck there but I don't think Olynyk deserves any punishment for that. On the other hand, JR Smith and Kendrick Perkins should get a suspension.
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The Olynyk - Love play happens a lot and normally it ends in a foul call and that's it. Love had bad luck there but I don't think Olynyk deserves any punishment for that. On the other hand, JR Smith and Kendrick Perkins should get a suspension.
That's why I think the refs should also be held somewhat accountable for these borderline dirty plays. They must try and make calls more consistently to prevent things from escalating.
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That was a pretty blatant trap and pull on Love's arm there.
The NBA may need to review all these 4 games, and decide whether to suspend any of those refs who worked in these games. Or else stuff like that could happen again.
The Olynyk - Love play happens a lot and normally it ends in a foul call and that's it. Love had bad luck there but I don't think Olynyk deserves any punishment for that. On the other hand, JR Smith and Kendrick Perkins should get a suspension.
How many times did you see the replay? Bad luck had nothing to do with it. There was clear intent behind that play.
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The intents was to hold him from getting to the ball, not to injure him which is only a foul.
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The intents was to hold him from getting to the ball, not to injure him which is only a foul.
Exactly
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Hawks - wut r u doing???
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Hawks - wut r u doing???
I know right?
Oh shit.. it is an Atlanta based team after all... and you know what that means :yeahright
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I fucking love Popovich :rollin :rollin
Post game interview:
Reporter - "How would you describe tonight's win?"
Pop - "Uh, what? It's a win. How do you describe a win? It's better than a loss."
Silence :lol
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I fucking love Popovich :rollin :rollin
Post game interview:
Reporter - "How would you describe tonight's win?"
Pop - "Uh, what? It's a win. How do you describe a win? It's better than a loss."
Silence :lol
:lol :rollin :lol
And I am happy the Spurs won!!
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Anyone else feel like the playoffs have kind of sucked this year? There's only been one series thus far that is both competitive and being played at a high level, which is Clippers - Spurs. The other close series are only close because the higher seeds (Bulls, Hawks) are playing poorly. On top of that, Conley and Love will both be out for an extended period of time.
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Anyone else feel like the playoffs have kind of sucked this year? There's only been one series thus far that is both competitive and being played at a high level, which is Clippers - Spurs. The other close series are only close because the higher seeds (Bulls, Hawks) are playing poorly. On top of that, Conley and Love will both be out for an extended period of time.
Sadly yes! This year's first round sucks in general! IMO, things would've been a little more interesting if the Pacers got in instead of the Nets.
As for the Bulls / Bucks series, I think Kidd is simply out coaching Thibodeau as the series progresses. I mean, at least the Bucks are starting to play much better D, while the Bulls somehow seem uninterested at times, or they are starting to tune out Thibodeau?
Man, I wish Conley is ok but then injury is a part of the game. At full strength, the Grizzlies is pretty fun to watch, and to me their style of plays and personnel (along with the Hawks) are like the Spurs 2.0 in a good way. If Grizzlies get pass the Blazers and Conley can somehow play in the second round, the Warriors / Grizzlies series should bring some fun back to the playoffs. :hat
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All that intentional fouling in the middle of the game leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I know it's within the rules, as they currently stand, but it's also fundamentally a cheating strategy (i.e. Breaking the rules to gain an advantage). I don't blame the Spurs as much as I blame the rules and refs. I think if there is a clear pattern of intentional fouling, not en route to an end-of-game comeback, the fouls should be called as they are- intentional fouls. And the fouled team should be able to select who to send to the line.
With all that being said. Screw the Clippers and go Spurs! :lol
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To me, people are getting way too worked up about the "principle of the matter" when discussing whether or not to change the Hack-A-Shaq rule. Those saying the rule should not be changed are saying it would be dumb to change a rule because some players can't shoot free throws, which is such a basic basketball skill.
While they are 100% right, I don't really care. I watch basketball to be entertained. Just change the rule. :lol
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I believe the Blazers can turn this series around. They still won't win it, but I just hope they go down fighting. Try to make it to 6! I originally had predicted Memphis in 5, could still happen.
I mean, I'm sorry, but sending DJ to the free throw line is simply a smart move. It's not pretty or fun to watch him brick everything, but that's not the Spurs' fault. Jordan is a tremendous player, he just needs to work on his charity stripe throws. Until then, don't see why the Spurs can't use that to their advantage. No rule is being broken.
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I get both sides, it's not nice to watch the Hack-a-player strategy but as TheOutlawXanadu says, shooting free throws is part of the game, get your big men to practice more.
Aside from that, it´s hard to change the rule. If you decide to penalize intentional fouls on a player that's not handling the ball by having him shoot the free throws and then giving the team the ball back, what will prevent players from running into a screen hard so that they get a foul call? And if they do, how will the refs identify which of those are intentional and which are just part of the game? Will they have to review each of them? That would be a lot worse than the rule staying as it is right now.
What other options are there?
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I get both sides, it's not nice to watch the Hack-a-player strategy but as TheOutlawXanadu says, shooting free throws is part of the game, get your big men to practice more.
Aside from that, it´s hard to change the rule. If you decide to penalize intentional fouls on a player that's not handling the ball by having him shoot the free throws and then giving the team the ball back, what will prevent players from running into a screen hard so that they get a foul call? And if they do, how will the refs identify which of those are intentional and which are just part of the game? Will they have to review each of them? That would be a lot worse than the rule staying as it is right now.
What other options are there?
I agree.
One thing I've always found a bit funny about the NBA is you see guys playing physical on the perimeter but if they drive in the lane and get tapped on the arm it's a foul. :lol
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I mean, I'm sorry, but sending DJ to the free throw line is simply a smart move. It's not pretty or fun to watch him brick everything, but that's not the Spurs' fault. Jordan is a tremendous player, he just needs to work on his charity stripe throws. Until then, don't see why the Spurs can't use that to their advantage. No rule is being broken.
Smart- sure.
But rules are being broken. Fouling constitutes a break in a rule- that's why it's a foul in the first place. And fouling intentionally because you know that the other player isn't a good free throw shooter is really not so different from cheating. What is cheating if not intentionally breaking rules to get an advantage?
Obviously, it's not quite that simple though. The impetus is also on the players to be good free throw shooters because, as TOX mentioned, it's just a fundamental part of the game. A comparison that comes to mind is in soccer, when there's a shot that's very clearly about to go in and then one of the defending players grabs it out of the air with his hands (Suarez). That player is punished with a foul called against him and if it looks intentional sent off the field. But he's still won his team an advantage, by breaking the rule. Is it smart in a win-at-all-costs kind of way? Absolutely. But it's not really in the spirit of the game, in my opinion.
Nekov is right though, it's hard to imagine how to change these rules. Not only is it hard to monitor these things in live time during the game, but theres also a noticeable difference between hack-a-shaq in the 3rd quarter as a strategy to slow things down and disrupt the flow of the game and hack-a-shaq with 20 seconds left when down by a basket. As for how they might deal with this, if they were going to, I'd think maybe dealing out punishment post-game, after reviewing the tape, would make the most sense. If theres an obvious and patterned strategy of intentionally fouling a particular player in the middle of the game, as there was last night, it's not too hard to miss and punish accordingly.
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I have to disagree. There are no rules being broken here, fouling other players is part of the game whether it's intentional or not and the punishment is sending the player to the FT. No one is cheating, they're just taking advantage of the current rules.
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I didn't see the game, but while I agree that it makes the game boring and slow, blame the clowns who can't hit a free throw. If they didn't suck at it, teams wouldn't intentionally foul them.
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NBA officiating is so bad as it is, the last thing the game needs is another thing for them to try to constantly discern ("intention"). It's not a "cheating" strategy so much as it is exploiting a weakness. At the end of a game when your'e down, you try to force the inbound pass to the team's worst free throw shooter so you can foul him. The opposing team would be wise to not have any exploitably poor free throw shooters on the floor in these situations, by whatever means. This is no different.
I agree to an extent with TOX: I watch basketball to be entertained. There are a lot of bad rules and player tendencies, not to mention horrible officiating, that get in the way of that. But part of the entertainment is in the intensity of the competition, and in the "integrity of the game," although I'm not sure I could define that if you asked me to. I definitely side with the camp who doesn't want a rule change. Dwight Howard and DeAndre Jordan should be doing nothing but shooting free throws between playoff games, and I daresay doing a lot more of it in practice throughout the regular season. It ain't rocket surgery, as they say.
-J
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It ain't rocket surgery, as they say.
-J
I know a guy who tried to become a rocket surgeon but we don't have any rockets in this country and his Visa for the US was denied. Talk about killing peoples dreams....
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Haven't followed the NBA much lately...but had to do a double take when I looked over my Mother In Law's shoulder at the score on the Bulls-Bucks game.
She loves basketball...that's why I couldn't figure out why she had turned the channel away from the game 3 times. When I went in to tell her the Spurs (her fav) were going to be on in a few minutes, I thought the score HAD to be a mistake. Nope. No wonder she kept shutting it off. :lol
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What a tough series. I thought the key in game 6 was FT shootings.
While Splitter went 3 of 8, TD went 0 for 2; DJ went a surprising 7 for 15!! I mean, if only Splitter would've made a couple more, and TD just one more; while DJ gone to his usual FT percentage, the outcome of game 6 would've been totally different.
Regardless of who wins this series, the Rockets are going to play a very tired team in their game 1 at home.
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Haven't followed the NBA much lately...but had to do a double take when I looked over my Mother In Law's shoulder at the score on the Bulls-Bucks game.
I thought the score was fake at first when I checked the final this morning. What the hell happened?
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3 CHI vs 6 MIL
As you can tell from my sig (which is completely outdated, I know), I'm a Chicago sports fan.
Being a Chicago sports fan, I'm quite aware that the Bulls have the potential to really suck at times for some reason.
They should still win the series, but I'm not confident enough to predict a sweep.
I do hope that this starts a neighbors-rivalry.
Yeah, I think that was pretty accurate.
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During the Hawks / Nets game 6, Jeff Van Gundy said about suspending players for 1.5 or 1.75 game instead of one full game per unit. I think that's a good idea! How about sitting them in a penalty box near court side for the duration of the suspension? Lol! :lol :lol :lol
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Jeff Van Gundy always has great ideas wish we could get him as Commissioner instead of Stern 2.0.
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Could tonight's game 7 be the last time we see the Spurs as they are for the last 10 plus years?
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Could tonight's game 7 be the last time we see the Spurs as they are for the last 10 plus years?
Could be. I don't think Manu will keep playing the game. It will be a very sad day when he announces his retirement.
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I'll gladly take their departure. I loved 'em in the David Robinson days and still liked 'em for a good bit in the Duncan era but I've always considered Ginobili a flop-happy chickenshit and this hacking cowardice has made them a laughable shell of their once-respectable selves.
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I'll gladly take their departure. I loved 'em in the David Robinson days and still liked 'em for a good bit in the Duncan era but I've always considered Ginobili a flop-happy chickenshit and this hacking cowardice has made them a laughable shell of their once-respectable selves.
He might be a flopper, but I like Diaw, Mills and Leonard.
That being said, I think they look tired already, and it is only half time... :omg:
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It is really too bad those two teams met in the first round. Hell of a series.
I do feel like the Clippers kinda "stole" it though. It looked to me like SA was clearly the more disciplined, consistent team. And the Clips will really struggle in the next round if Paul isn't back to 100%. But I hope they at least make it to the western conference finals.
-J
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Amazing series. Tonight's game was one of the best I've seen in a while.
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I do feel like the Clippers kinda "stole" it though. It looked to me like SA was clearly the more disciplined, consistent team.
It's hard to call it stealing when the Spurs had to farm extra possessions via intentional fouling to such an egregious extent. If anything, the Clippers probably would've won this in 5 or 6 if there was a rule in place to prevent that pussy shit. I know they lost one game by 27 but if the Spurs were actually good enough to do that each game I seriously doubt they'd be clinging to hacking as extensively as they did.
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That was a great run by the Spurs. For the most part, I thought the Clippers out played the Spurs in this series, but the Spurs' experience kept them in it until the end. I enjoyed watching them over the years, even though I am a Lakers fan. :hat
The Dubs and the Grizzlies are about the only ones left that I like. Knowing the Grizzlies don't really stand a good chance against the Dubs, so hopefully they go for it all the way!
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The Spurs and Pac man both lose in the same night? Somebody put Skip Bayless on suicide watch.
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I'll gladly take their departure. I loved 'em in the David Robinson days and still liked 'em for a good bit in the Duncan era but I've always considered Ginobili a flop-happy chickenshit and this hacking cowardice has made them a laughable shell of their once-respectable selves.
I blame the league and their refs for all of the flopping. If they would have the balls to start 'T'ing up players who flop, like how the NHL will now penalize players for embellishment, then players wouldn't flop. I agree that Ginobili is in that top tier of floppers, as is Chris Paul, but to me it's gamesmanship. If the refs are gonna fall for it, you do it.
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Minimum full season ban for flopping. That should do it.
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I think a T on the spot for floppers is enough. :hat
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I think that would only encourage a higher level of acting.
Like the kind we always see in soccer. :angel:
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I think that would only encourage a higher level of acting.
Like the kind we always see in soccer. :angel:
You mean T-ing up floppers would only encourage them? Well, not if the league also change the way technical fouls and suspensions are handled. Currently a player would automatically be suspended by a game on the 16th technical fouls in the season. How about lowering that limit to 10 or so, and specifically state that each technical fouls resulted from flopping (upon reviewed by the NBA) would be doubled and so on.
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I hate flopping as much or more than the next guy, but you guys seem to be forgetting that it's still on the officials to discern flopping from non-flopping. And we all know how great and consistent they are at making judgment calls.
Honestly, I've thought for a long time that the entirety of what the rulebook has to say about offensive fouls warrants a complete overhaul. In order to eliminate "flopping," I feel like more contact has to be allowed on both sides of the ball.
-J
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I think the league needs to work on calling travels, carrying, and push-offs other than catering to a player who can't make a damn free throw but looks excellent dunking on ESPN's Top Ten Plays.
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No bias there.
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If they started T-ing up floppers James Harden would be suspended for the entire season :lol
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I'm seeing a Warriors vs Bulls final
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I'm seeing a Warriors vs Bulls final
The Bulls looked good last night, but are we a bit ahead of ourselves here? Just saying :hat
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Kobe reportedly "bought Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Compressor Chronograps, retail $9,000 apiece" for his Lakers teammates in 2008.... and all eyes are on Curry now :lol :lol :lol
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11188152_10152719351076459_7509708025726259346_n.jpg?oh=60f18d18d7ab602caf045274676f6747&oe=55D6FF75&__gda__=1438560611_4803024dc6f097879a1d4cbfe2b8dbf9)
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Well I probably should have mentioned I had the Bulls beating the Cavs in 6 before the series started. :lol
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I did too. I'm trying not to overreact to one game, but LeBron has been mediocre all playoffs and a mediocre LeBron is trouble for the Cavs.
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I did too. I'm trying not to overreact to one game, but LeBron has been mediocre all playoffs and a mediocre LeBron is trouble for the Cavs.
Mediocre? He was the only reason they beat Boston, that series was a 1 man show...well, maybe 1,5 since Irving did a pretty good job in the first game. he didn't execute well against the bulls yesterday and a lot of credit goes to Jimmy Butler for being a tremendous defensive player.
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Jimmy Butler has become one of my favorites. Guy is a stud!
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I did too. I'm trying not to overreact to one game, but LeBron has been mediocre all playoffs and a mediocre LeBron is trouble for the Cavs.
Averaging 27-9-7 in a series is mediocre? :lol :lol
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Jimmy Butler has become one of my favorites. Guy is a stud!
Agree with this for sure, he's a boss. But the Bulls are still wildly inconsistent as a team. That series will be close and ugly IMO.
-J
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I should clarify. By LeBron's standards, he's been fairly mediocre.
25/10/7 looks great by itself, but then consider he's playing 43 minutes a game, which inflates those stats a bit. He's only shooting 45%, and he's turning the ball over five times a game. All of the metrics that try to encapsulate performance rate him way below his standards: 22 PER, .117 WS/48, and a 5.8 Box Plus Minus. His career averages in the playoffs are 27.5, .238, and 10.2.
Again, poor wording originally. LeBron has been good compared to most, but he's playing way beneath his capability.
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You can't go all out in every single game, especially when you are LeBron James, who plays deep into the playoffs every season. You have to pace yourself for a 4-round playoff. The Celtics had no chance to beat Cleveland, and James knew he didn't have to be beastly for it to happen.
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Yeah... I mean, I'm a huge LeBron fan and I think there's a very good case to be made that he's already one of the five best players ever, but there have been some troubling signs from him this year. He came into training camp out of shape and pouted the first half of the year. He was very good the second half of the year but still not particularly efficient and was a turnover machine. Now we're five games into the playoffs and he's been a level below his usual playoff self.
At some point he needs to start dominating or else I don't think the Cavaliers can beat the Bulls. Cleveland is a very, very flawed team, and if he's not making up for those flaws, they're in trouble.
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I don't want to sound alarmed or anything, but without Love the rest of the season, and JR until game 3, the Cavs can't afford to play catch up in game 2. If, just if, the Bulls are somehow up 2-0 in the series; I just don't see the Cavs recovering from it at all.
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It kinda sounds like some of you want Cleveland to win...
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I think I would. I don't like the Bulls for some reason.
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It kinda sounds like some of you want Cleveland to win...
Not exactly...
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Although I'm actually glad to see Houston put up a fight this series, I have seldom seen officiating as one-sided as it seems like it's been in this Rockets-Clippers game. Every single call is going Houston's way. I know after the first half the Rockets had already shot twice as many free throws. This is one I'd like to actually look at some numbers on.
-J
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Apparently John Wall has a hand and wrist fracture. There goes Washington's possibility of getting to the East finals...
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Oh man, I just saw the video of Shaq's face plant last night. :lol :lol
"Down goes Shaq!!!" :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Ernie set him up Shaq even said so himself :lol
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D.Rose sucked in game 3... shooting just 10 for 26 with 3 TOs! Oh wait... :lol
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Got to give the Memphis D a lot of credits in the first half!!
They pretty much disregarded everyone but Curry and Thompson in the first qtr! They always have at least one guy on them! And it looked like they didn't expect / prepare for that kind of rotation. Once you went cold in an entire quarter, it is hard to warm up afterward. Wow! That D was amazing. Can the Grizzlies keep it up? We will see... nice game so far!! :hat
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Leclutch makes an appearance :hat
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David Blatt is not a smart coach. :lol :lol
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David Blatt is not a smart coach. :lol :lol
Agreed. He's lucky he has good players and some other coaches that know not to call a timeout they don't have.
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So is the media going to over hype the Bulls again next year or have they learned their lesson?
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David Blatt is not a smart coach. :lol :lol
That's pretty much the case for close to 20 teams in the league. :lol
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So is the media going to over hype the Bulls again next year or have they learned their lesson?
I think the hype at the start of the season was semi-justified. But half way through the season it just became, "Um, are you guys actually watching this team?"
The saddest part about going out this way is that I'm not even surprised.
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Oof. What a terrible end to the season for the Clippers.
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I think the hype at the start of the season was semi-justified. But half way through the season it just became, "Um, are you guys actually watching this team?"
The saddest part about going out this way is that I'm not even surprised.
Why is Thibideau out? Has he actually been fired?
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I think the hype at the start of the season was semi-justified. But half way through the season it just became, "Um, are you guys actually watching this team?"
The saddest part about going out this way is that I'm not even surprised.
Why is Thibideau out? Has he actually been fired?
Not yet but there have been several rumors about it happening.
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I guess the NBA Lottery isn't rigged. Poor Okafor though has to play for Minnesota now :rollin
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That title tho :lol
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I guess the NBA Lottery isn't rigged. Poor Okafor though has to play for Minnesota now :rollin
Minnesota = best so okay.
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I guess the NBA Lottery isn't rigged. Poor Okafor though has to play for Minnesota now :rollin
Minnesota is far better than Philly... or some of the other teams that were in the draft. They had a bad year because of injuries but that's it
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A game 1 loss in a series should never be "soul crushing." But I think Houston's loss last night was about as close as you can get. They were on an incredible emotional high after coming back from 3-1 down to beat the Clippers. They had the Warriors on the ropes early in Oakland, I'm sure with a strong desire to steal a road win early on. They came out and played nearly flawless early on, and really for the most part, were able to play their type of ball all the way through. Despite that, they simply could not stop the Warriors' comeback and lost an emotional first game, and appeared helpless to stop it. Add to that the fact that they have not beaten the Warriors at all this year. I would definitely not count them out. But I think they are in as deep a hole as a team could possibly be in after a game 1.
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^I somewhat agree. I don't think any team in the league has the firepower to score with GS when Curry, Thompson, et al are on. But the Warriors definitely live and die by the jumper. Houston's best bet is to be disciplined on defense and hope they don't shoot the lights out.
-J
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Well, I take all that back. The Rockets seemingly just do not have any quit in them. They are the embodiment of resilience.
That said, they gotta be thinking "What exactly do we have to do to win?" On one hand, having played the Warriors this well for 2 games, there may be a feeling of, "we are almost where we need to be. We could have won either one of those games. On our court, we will win those types of games." But on the other hand, they have to take 4 out of 5 against the Warriors. I would venture to say, that ain't happening.
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Agreed. The Rockets are hanging with them, but being down 2-0 is a pretty big hill to climb.
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Add to that the fact that they haven't been able to beat the warriors at all during the season and it's almost impossible for them to come back
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While the Rockets are going to lose this series, I think we are seeing that this it not the mismatch that many of us thought it would be.
That aside, this Warriors team might be one of the best single season teams we've ever seen, and I think many are sleeping on them in that regard, probably because they aren't a franchise who normally wins a lot.
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That aside, this Warriors team might be one of the best single season teams we've ever seen, and I think many are sleeping on them in that regard, probably because they aren't a franchise who normally wins a lot.
In general, that is a true statement. But I would not call them a "single season team" either. They have made the playoffs the last 3 seasons in a row (after, admittedly, a LONG dry spell). Despite going out in the first round last year, many were expecting them to advance farther. But what Jackson managed to build over the last two seasons, Kerr took to another level this season.
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I hope the Warriors sweep the Rockets. I actually want to be able to watch the NBA Finals without having to see James Harden flopping all over the place.
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That aside, this Warriors team might be one of the best single season teams we've ever seen, and I think many are sleeping on them in that regard, probably because they aren't a franchise who normally wins a lot.
In general, that is a true statement. But I would not call them a "single season team" either. They have made the playoffs the last 3 seasons in a row (after, admittedly, a LONG dry spell). Despite going out in the first round last year, many were expecting them to advance farther. But what Jackson managed to build over the last two seasons, Kerr took to another level this season.
Okay, but I don't mean single season team in that regard. I mean looking at just the 2014-2015 Warriors on their own, without considering what they have done before then or what they might do after that.
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Oh, okay. It seemed like you were saying they hadn't done anything before and wouldn't again after this year.
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So if Cleveland ends up making the Finals against the Warriors LeBron will have made 5 straight NBA Finals, but he will still get crucified when they lose kind of sad really.
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So if Cleveland ends up making the Finals against the Warriors LeBron will have made 5 straight NBA Finals, but he will still get crucified when they lose kind of sad really.
Only by the brainless.
Oh, okay. It seemed like you were saying they hadn't done anything before and wouldn't again after this year.
Not at all. This team is young and set to be great for a while. Steph Curry is already in the conversation for best pure shooter I have ever seen out of a volume shooter (along with Ray Allen, Larry Bird, Kevin Durant and Reggie Miller, among others).
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I've been away for a few days... man, the Hawks have been very disappointing to say the least! I thought they would've put up a better fight than game 1 & 2... anyway, I think the Dubs are capable of beating the Cavs in the Finals. I just wish they finish off the Rockets quickly first.
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I hope the Warriors sweep the Rockets. I actually want to be able to watch the NBA Finals without having to see James Harden flopping all over the place.
Don't worry, you'll be able to see Lebron doing it ;)
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Not nearly as much as James Harden though half of Harden's offense is flopping trying to get FT's :lol
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I hate flopping, but my theory has always been that players do it because the officials fall for it. If you watched Games 1 and 2, the refs were not falling for Harden's flops, which he quickly realized, and as a result, he did very little flopping the rest of both games. Imagine that. But when refs fall for it and blow the whistle every time, most players are gonna do it to get the cheap whistle and free throws. In other words, the refs are the bigger problem, not the players. It's like in football where defensive backs quickly figure out early in a game how much clutching and grabbing the refs will let them get away with that day, and then adjust accordingly.
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Ridiculous performance by LBJ tonight. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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Ridiculous performance by LBJ tonight. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Those were NBA 2K kind of stats and clutch plays right there.
We are likely going to get TWO sweeps in each Conference Finals. I just can't remember something like that in recent years. If the Dubs and Cavs both sweep their series, there will be 9 to 10 days without basketball?! Ouch!! :yeahright :tdwn
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When the fuck did they start having a hard set date for the finals? I thought they used to just start it a few days after both teams were done in their respective CFs.
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Hopefully the Finals are at least somewhat competitive and the Warriors don't just embarrass the Cavs.
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Hopefully the Finals are at least somewhat competitive and the Warriors don't just embarrass the Cavs.
As much as I think the Dubs will get the title, Lebron won't allow the Cavs to be embarassed. They'll put up a fight
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If LeBron could just not talk, he would be beloved by all. Hockey play er s laugh their assessment off hearing him Talk about "gutting" it out.
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OK Dubs, let's wrap this shit up tonight!!! Next stop, the first finals in who the fuck knows how long, 40 years I think... (I'm sure Floyd will be along to answer that for me)
I've never been a huge NBA fan, but seeing what's been happening around the Bay Area this last few months has been very cool indeed. Plus feeling good for a few friends who are having a lifetime of fandom vindicated. Hoping they can finish this thing and bring home a title for them.
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Last appearance was a 4-0 sweep over the Washington Bullets in 1975.
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Gracias.
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Why wasn't D12 ejected?
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A rare case of preferential treatment for a big star in the NBA?
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James Harden :hat
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(https://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17kek0zb8y50cjpg/original.jpg)
(https://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2015/0526/dm_150525_Howard_elbows_Bogut193/dm_150525_Howard_elbows_Bogut193.jpg)
D12 should be suspended for at least game 5 if not the rest of the series.
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:lol :lol
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I guess it's an indication of how much LBJ's greatness is taken for granted here now when he is barely being talked about during a playoff season where he has solidified his spot in the GOAT conversation. Simply unreal how good he is.
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Yup. It's going to be a shame when the Warriors humble him next week.
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LeBron is averaging 27.6 PPG,10.4 Rebounds, 8.3 Assists, 1.8 Steals and 1.3 blocks in what is supposedly a down year for him :rollin
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Dubs baby :RJ:
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Warriors all the way pls
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Warriors in 6
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The Cavs have the best player, but the Warriors have the better team, better coach, more depth and home court. Golden St. having a few games where they shoot poorly from outside is the only way I see the Cavs having a chance to win 4 out of 7.
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/237990/Bulls-Fire-Tom-Thibodeau
Nobody is surprised by this, but I still say it's a dumb move firing one of the 3 top coaches in the NBA.
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I keep thinking statistics will catch up with GS sooner or later, but they haven't. History and experience tells me they should be living and dying by their long contested jump shot-taking ways, but they continue to just...live by them. It doesn't hurt that they're a pretty good defensive team too, which is often overlooked just because most teams flat out can't score with them. It's unclear to me how much of a factor Steve Kerr is in all of this. On the surface they don't seem much different of a team than they were under Jackson. Also I hated Kerr as a player and analyst so I don't want to give him credit. :lol
That said, LeBron took Boobie Gibson et al to the finals several years back so as far as I'm concerned you can never count him out. Were they to put him on Curry, the Warriors would at least have to look elsewhere for a lot of their offense. Plus he's putting up stupid numbers, as others have noted, albeit against relatively lame eastern conference opponents.
-J
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I keep thinking statistics will catch up with GS sooner or later, but they haven't. History and experience tells me they should be living and dying by their long contested jump shot-taking ways, but they continue to just...live by them.
But the thing is, statistics are irrelevant here. Yeah, they are WAY above the league average in terms of the things you mention. But the thing is, they have quite a few shooters that are much better shooters than average. These guys have proven that over the last few seasons now. So I don't expect "statistics to catch up with them" any time soon. They will have a bad game or two. That's just the way it goes. But there is no reason to expect their shooting percentage or scoring numbers to flatline because they have a lot of REALLY good shooters.
It doesn't hurt that they're a pretty good defensive team too, which is often overlooked just because most teams flat out can't score with them.
Actually, they are an exceptional team. And that is why they have still won a lot of games where the offense has cooled down. But defense in basketball is not as easy to recognize unless you watch a team over a long stretch, which most of the country has not, so it is not surprising that their defense has not gotten quite the recognition it probably deserves.
It's unclear to me how much of a factor Steve Kerr is in all of this. On the surface they don't seem much different of a team than they were under Jackson. Also I hated Kerr as a player and analyst so I don't want to give him credit. :lol
I never really knew him as a player. I don't really follow the NBA as a whole that closely. But I think he is a better coach than many realize. I thought it was a horrible idea to fire Jackson. And I attributed the Warriors' early season success to Kerr just staying out of the team's way and letting them do their thing. But listening to him quite a bit on local sports talk, it has become apparent that he is a pretty good coach who knows what he is doing. Of course, he benefitted greatly from having an outstanding team with outstanding personnel already put together and handed to him on a silver platter. So it remains to be seen whether he is a truly "great" coach. But definitely very, very good.
That said, LeBron took Boobie Gibson et al to the finals several years back so as far as I'm concerned you can never count him out. Were they to put him on Curry, the Warriors would at least have to look elsewhere for a lot of their offense. Plus he's putting up stupid numbers, as others have noted, albeit against relatively lame eastern conference opponents.
You can never count out a team that has LeBron. The other day, I was noodling through the reasons why he is so obviously not at Jordan's level and should only be considered "on the outside looking in" when having the "greatest of all time" discussion. Despite my best efforts, I talked myself out of it by the time the "conversation" was over. He really is that good.
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But the thing is, statistics are irrelevant here. Yeah, they are WAY above the league average in terms of the things you mention. But the thing is, they have quite a few shooters that are much better shooters than average. These guys have proven that over the last few seasons now. So I don't expect "statistics to catch up with them" any time soon. They will have a bad game or two. That's just the way it goes. But there is no reason to expect their shooting percentage or scoring numbers to flatline because they have a lot of REALLY good shooters.
True, you could argue that Curry and Thompson are THE two best shooters in the league. I firmly believe that if Curry can stay healthy, he'll be the best shooter in NBA history by a number of metrics by the end of his career.
That said, I can't agree that "statistics are irrelevant" or don't apply to them for some reason. Many of the shots they take are not only from long range, but have a high degree of difficulty on top of it. Though Curry might make more of those than anybody else, they're still "low percentage shots." Hypothetically, players/teams that get more shots in the paint/close to the basket are going to come out on top in the long term. But either way, Golden State DOES do their share of scoring at short range as well.
You can never count out a team that has LeBron. The other day, I was noodling through the reasons why he is so obviously not at Jordan's level and should only be considered "on the outside looking in" when having the "greatest of all time" discussion. Despite my best efforts, I talked myself out of it by the time the "conversation" was over. He really is that good.
Lately I tend to agree (as does Bill Laimbeer). While I'd still call Jordan the GOAT if pressed, LeBron is absolutely one of about three other guys in the discussion. He's MJ's peer, if not his equal.
-J
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Since the 90s, Jordan has been the unquestioned number 1 for most, but I find it interesting that in probably the last five years, so many have been putting Magic Johnson at number 2, when I never saw him in that spot before then. I think those years where he was on ESPN as an analyst made people remember what a likable guy he is, and many gave him the bump up to 2 on the GOAT lists. Don't get me wrong, Magic is up there pretty high, but would I put him ahead of LeBron, Bird or Kareem? Probably not. But I know that for many, the nostalgia of remembering the Showtime Lakers is strong for many, and it's easy to forget that the Western Conference was as bad back then as the East is now (meaning the Lakers might as well have been given byes to the finals some years), Magic always had Kareem when winning titles, and Magic was pretty awful on defense. Calling it picking nits, but while Magic is an all-time great, and arguably top 5, should be number 2 or 3? I say no.
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Still, to play that many positions and to be that good at them. Like you said Kev, Top 10 on the high end close to five for me. He was a better point guard at 6' 9" then most point guards ever.
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I agree with you guys, Magic is top 10, maybe top 5. IMO, although it's overly simplistic as is any comparison between any two players, triple-doubles are as good a metric as we have to measure a player's well-roundedness and dominance of multiple aspects of the game. Magic was a triple double machine, as is LeBron. But Oscar Robertson is for some reason often left out of the GOAT discussions. Though he played long before my day, he and Jordan are probably my picks for the two best players of all time.
-J
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Considering that Oscar Robertson's beyond-stellar career is reduced to him being a trivia answer as that dude whom averaged a triple-double for a whole season, I figured I'd point out how close he came to doing that for four straight seasons:
60-61: 30.5 ppg 10.1 rpg 9.7 apg (As a fuckin rookie! 20 assists away from a season-average triple-double.)
61-62: 30.8 ppg 12.5 rpg 11.4 apg (The triple-double season. This happened during Wilt's 50.4 ppg season which included his 100-point game. Just try getting noticed that year.)
62-63: 28.3 ppg 10.4 rpg 9.5 apg (42 assists shy of a season-average triple-double. 758 in 80 games.)
63-64: 31.4 ppg 9.9 rpg 11.0 apg (Literally, 7 rebounds away from the season triple-double. 783 in 79 games.)
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I'll admit that it is difficult for me to put Robertson, Wilt and Russell up at the very top because a) I never saw any of them play, and more importantly b) they played in an era when there weren't a lot of teams, so being the best then didn't mean as much then as it did once the league expanded. It's kind of like the great baseball players who excelled before blacks were allowed to play; they get docked because those who came after did it against a higher level of overall competition.
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The fewer teams angle is rubbish. That just means it was WAY harder to get into the NBA. At seemingly every five year stretch we have a good 5-7 teams that make the playoffs once or less during that time frame even though they have a better chance of making it (16/30 for 53.3%) than missing it (14/30 for 46.7%). Add to that the fact that only 9 different teams (Lakers, Celtics, 76ers, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Spurs, Heat, Mavericks) have even won a title since 1980 and it makes it pretty clear that the extra teams are just window dressing that create an artifical sense of parity.
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Considering that Oscar Robertson's beyond-stellar career is reduced to him being a trivia answer as that dude whom averaged a triple-double for a whole season, I figured I'd point out how close he came to doing that for four straight seasons:
60-61: 30.5 ppg 10.1 rpg 9.7 apg (As a fuckin rookie! 20 assists away from a season-average triple-double.)
61-62: 30.8 ppg 12.5 rpg 11.4 apg (The triple-double season. This happened during Wilt's 50.4 ppg season which included his 100-point game. Just try getting noticed that year.)
62-63: 28.3 ppg 10.4 rpg 9.5 apg (42 assists shy of a season-average triple-double. 758 in 80 games.)
63-64: 31.4 ppg 9.9 rpg 11.0 apg (Literally, 7 rebounds away from the season triple-double. 783 in 79 games.)
If you look at that stretch as a whole, he averaged a triple double over that entire period. Absolutely ridiculous. Nobody's come within light years of a similar feat in his era or anytime since.
-J
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Gentry must have given a very impressive interview! He is a very good offensive coach, and I hope he does well in NO. Good hire! :tup
Now let's see if the Lakers will first let go of B-Scott, and then hire either Tom Thib or JVG like some rumors suggested.
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Kobe and Thibs on the same team? I think Thibs would lose his voice before the game instead of during it like he always does. :lol
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The fewer teams angle is rubbish. That just means it was WAY harder to get into the NBA. At seemingly every five year stretch we have a good 5-7 teams that make the playoffs once or less during that time frame even though they have a better chance of making it (16/30 for 53.3%) than missing it (14/30 for 46.7%). Add to that the fact that only 9 different teams (Lakers, Celtics, 76ers, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Spurs, Heat, Mavericks) have even won a title since 1980 and it makes it pretty clear that the extra teams are just window dressing that create an artifical sense of parity.
Has the NBA ever really claimed to be all about parity? The NBA is a very star-driven. If you have a star, you will contend most of the time. The teams that frequently miss the playoffs usually lack having even one star. What's even crazier is how these teams that get lottery picks a lot still can't improve more often than not (see: the 76ers :lol).
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And realistically, you need 2 stars to win in this league.
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The fewer teams angle is rubbish. That just means it was WAY harder to get into the NBA. At seemingly every five year stretch we have a good 5-7 teams that make the playoffs once or less during that time frame even though they have a better chance of making it (16/30 for 53.3%) than missing it (14/30 for 46.7%). Add to that the fact that only 9 different teams (Lakers, Celtics, 76ers, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Spurs, Heat, Mavericks) have even won a title since 1980 and it makes it pretty clear that the extra teams are just window dressing that create an artifical sense of parity.
Has the NBA ever really claimed to be all about parity? The NBA is a very star-driven. If you have a star, you will contend most of the time. The teams that frequently miss the playoffs usually lack having even one star. What's even crazier is how these teams that get lottery picks a lot still can't improve more often than not (see: the 76ers :lol).
Doesn't this prove my point that the fewer teams argument is a nonfactor since the NBA's always sorely lacked parity and the fact that fewer teams meant that those whom made rosters had to clearly be the best of the best out of whom was available?
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Perhaps, but that doesn't mean that the best of the best back then is better than the best of the best nowadays. In every sport, it is always so difficult to compares players from different eras to one another. Hard to have a right or wrong answer, really.
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Let's go Warriors!! :corn
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That's one!!!!
This is gonna be a loooooooooong two weeks for my warrior friends, this series is gonna be a bloodbath.
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What. A. Game.
Wow. Much respect to the Cavs. But, honestly, I think this game is a good indication of why the Warriors will win. The Cavs are LeBron, and whichever one or two guys can step up on a given night. The Warriors are an incredibly deep team. You never know which guys are going to do it, and it is never just one guy.
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LeBron's monster game just wasn't enough, and if Irving can't be at least 80% the rest of the series (if he can even play at all); the Dubs will win...
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That Irving injury is big. His press conference after the game did not sound promising.
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Biggest mistake was not driving the lane on that last play of regulation. You’re on the road at Oracle, OT is death. Kyrie makes an incredible block to give you the last shot attempt. All you need is even 1 point. And you take a tightly contested, falling out of bounds three? LeBron played a great game, but that decision was awful. Where was this LeBron:
https://youtu.be/HZ7E-YlJ5lo
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Biggest mistake was not driving the lane on that last play of regulation. You’re on the road at Oracle, OT is death. Kyrie makes an incredible block to give you the last shot attempt. All you need is even 1 point. And you take a tightly contested, falling out of bounds three? LeBron played a great game, but that decision was awful. Where was this LeBron:
https://youtu.be/HZ7E-YlJ5lo
Exactly, this this this. It seems silly to nitpick at the best player in the world, but it's stuff like this that holds him back from his potential (whatever that means). When he settles and turns himself into a jump shooter, his real strengths go to waste and he gives up the many advantages he has. If he wants to play that game, he's gonna lose, because Golden State has a team full of dudes who are better at it than he is.
Great finish by the Warriors! Looking to be a good series.
-J
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I don't think it is silly at all to nitpick the supposedly best player in the world. I been very critical of LeBron James for years, even before he went to the Heat. I see the potential in him too. There was a time a rooted for him too. He's the most athletic player in the game right now for sure. But so far in his career, I will not even put LeBron James in my 10 best players of all time.
Tim Duncan, with all of his personal accomplishments, to me, is the best player of this generation. Not LeBron. Not Kobe. Not Shaq. I'm not saying that as a Spurs fan, but a fan of the game.
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Potential? LBJ has exceeded all expectations, which is pretty unreal considering how high they were.
Having said that, that last possession in regulation showed off the one thing I do not like about his game. I hate when he dribbles it down to under 5 on the shot clock and then just jacks up a contested jumper. That aside, his performance last night was incredible, but it was all for naught, and with Irving now having a broken kneecap, it will be over in 4 or 5. I don't think the Cavs were gonna win the series anyway, but with the Cavs now missing their 2nd and 3rd best players, good luck.
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*begins being salty about Lebron leaving Miami*
I got to actually watch some of this game. God, the Warriors are so good. Lebron can certainly carry a team, and he *could* have a monster game every game this series, but that just cannot be enough to defeat the Warriors. We could get proven wrong.
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Biggest mistake was not driving the lane on that last play of regulation. You’re on the road at Oracle, OT is death. Kyrie makes an incredible block to give you the last shot attempt. All you need is even 1 point. And you take a tightly contested, falling out of bounds three? LeBron played a great game, but that decision was awful. Where was this LeBron:
https://youtu.be/HZ7E-YlJ5lo
As Shaq put it, between Kobe and LeBron; he would always pick Kobe as teammate for one simple reason... killer instinct. :hat
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Is this where we act like Bryant had more of a killer instinct cause he was a chucker and James is not?
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Is this where we act like Bryant had more of a killer instinct cause he was a chucker and James is not?
Or he hit big shots. :lol
But seriously, aren't all big game player taking ridiculous shots at end of games because the other team knows they will get the ball?
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Most of the time, yes.
It's cute how some people still don't get that James is not like Jordan and Bryant, in regards to him not being a volume jump shooter like those guys were. Imagine if James had had an in-his-prime Shaq on his team for years along with a coach the caliber of Phil Jackson. The 60s Celtics records might have been in danger. :lol :lol
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The reason so many hate on him (including me) isn't his on court play. It's not even his off court stuff. He is a good father and a good guy. It's his actions in interviews when he says "I" and things like "The Decision" that throw people off. Most great players know to say "Us" LeBron in interviews makes it about himself.
You and I know that all great player have that ego and need it to be honest but they are smart enough to hide it.
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I rarely see him do that. He has since admitted that The Decision was wrong, so I don't hold that against him. But heck, given how many still refuse to acknowledge how good he is and pick nits at his game, he probably feels the need for a little self-promotion at times, but on the court, he is one of the most unselfish superstars we have ever seen in sports. He'd rather score 20 and get 12 assists in a win than score 40 and have no assists. He loves seeing his teammates do well because it actually makes him happy; guys like Jordan and Bryant were very selfish players who were only okay with their teammates doing well cause it was a means to their end (winning), not because they got any joy out of seeing anyone else do well. And don't get me wrong, that kind of "me first" selfishness was a big part of why they did so well, but James is just wired differently, and some people still don't get that. To use the cliche I have heard before, he is more Magic than Michael, and he is BETTER than Magic, but many will never say it because Magic just oozed charisma, so people love the guy. On the charisma scale, James simply doesn't rate very high. He's not a 2 like Tim Duncan :lol, but he's not a 10 like Magic.
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Seriously the thought of LeBron with Prime Shaq it wouldn't even be fair to the rest of the league. They most likely beat the Bulls record of 72 wins, and sweep the playoffs multiple times on their way to a 9-peat :lol
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As Shaq put it, between Kobe and LeBron; he would always pick Kobe as teammate for one simple reason... killer instinct. :hat
Shaq ain't the brightest bulb. Kobe launched contested jumpers at the buzzer in lieu of getting a high percentage look at least as often (and probably a lot more often) than LeBron. And as I recall, his percentages were terrible. "Killer instinct" is imaginary.
Potential? LBJ has exceeded all expectations, which is pretty unreal considering how high they were.
The two aren't necessarily related. I don't know what LeBron's "potential" is or what that even means, but when he throws up shots like that, I see room for improvement that calls to mind the shadow of the LeBron that could be. That doesn't mean he hasn't exceeded the general expectations of the masses from when he came out of HS. He definitely has.
-J
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He's not a 2 like Tim Duncan :lol
That's blasphemous!
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I rarely see him do that. He has since admitted that The Decision was wrong, so I don't hold that against him. But heck, given how many still refuse to acknowledge how good he is and pick nits at his game, he probably feels the need for a little self-promotion at times, but on the court, he is one of the most unselfish superstars we have ever seen in sports. He'd rather score 20 and get 12 assists in a win than score 40 and have no assists. He loves seeing his teammates do well because it actually makes him happy; guys like Jordan and Bryant were very selfish players who were only okay with their teammates doing well cause it was a means to their end (winning), not because they got any joy out of seeing anyone else do well. And don't get me wrong, that kind of "me first" selfishness was a big part of why they did so well, but James is just wired differently, and some people still don't get that. To use the cliche I have heard before, he is more Magic than Michael, and he is BETTER than Magic, but many will never say it because Magic just oozed charisma, so people love the guy. On the charisma scale, James simply doesn't rate very high. He's not a 2 like Tim Duncan :lol, but he's not a 10 like Magic.
Kev, I've seen him do it all year with the Cavs. You're not paying attention! :lol
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Shaq ain't the brightest bulb. Kobe launched contested jumpers at the buzzer in lieu of getting a high percentage look at least as often (and probably a lot more often) than LeBron. And as I recall, his percentages were terrible. "Killer instinct" is imaginary.
-J
Killer instinct and late game shooting percentage ain't related, dude. What Shaq was saying, and in some way I agreed is that, Kobe would drive hard / not afraid of contact late in a tight game; and try his best to score. Versus in LeBron, he keeps jacking up jump shots late in game. I mean, sure, I can tell he shot well in the first 3 qtrs, and he has a ton of confident in himself; but using Game 1 as an example, with 8 seconds or so left and you are taking a contested 21-footer? Seriously?
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Shaq ain't the brightest bulb. Kobe launched contested jumpers at the buzzer in lieu of getting a high percentage look at least as often (and probably a lot more often) than LeBron. And as I recall, his percentages were terrible. "Killer instinct" is imaginary.
-J
Killer instinct and late game shooting percentage ain't related, dude. What Shaq was saying, and in some way I agreed is that, Kobe would drive hard / not afraid of contact late in a tight game; and try his best to score. Versus in LeBron, he keeps jacking up jump shots late in game. I mean, sure, I can tell he shot well in the first 3 qtrs, and he has a ton of confident in himself; but using Game 1 as an example, with 8 seconds or so left and you are taking a contested 21-footer? Seriously?
Re-read the first part of my post. Based on my admittedly unreliable recollection, Kobe had no more propensity to try to get to the rim at the end of games than LeBron does. More than his share of long contested jumpers in those situations, I'd wager more than LeBron. And his end-of-game accuracy absolutely would be related to this fabled "killer instinct" because if he's getting higher percentage looks by getting to the basket, it should be reflected in his numbers. That does not appear to be the case.
-J
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He's not a 2 like Tim Duncan :lol
That's blasphemous!
Remember, I am talking on the charisma scale. The guy is one of the best players ever, but he doesn't exactly ooze charisma.
Kev, I've seen him do it all year with the Cavs. You're not paying attention! :lol
Sure. :lol :lol
Shaq ain't the brightest bulb. Kobe launched contested jumpers at the buzzer in lieu of getting a high percentage look at least as often (and probably a lot more often) than LeBron. And as I recall, his percentages were terrible. "Killer instinct" is imaginary.
-J
Killer instinct and late game shooting percentage ain't related, dude. What Shaq was saying, and in some way I agreed is that, Kobe would drive hard / not afraid of contact late in a tight game; and try his best to score. Versus in LeBron, he keeps jacking up jump shots late in game. I mean, sure, I can tell he shot well in the first 3 qtrs, and he has a ton of confident in himself; but using Game 1 as an example, with 8 seconds or so left and you are taking a contested 21-footer? Seriously?
No offense, but that is horse shit. I remember countless games that were tight late when Bryant jacked up a contested jumper and missed, just like James did the other day.
Back to LeBron, he does have as many playoff buzzer beaters as Michael Jordan.
And let's not forget this happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p3xWG3mkXE Which James does A LOT in general, in close, tight games at the end, but yeah, let's act like he always launches deep shots because he is afraid to drive to the hoop. :lol :lol
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Well though I don't like him personally, it doesn't take away that he is that great of a player. Hell, this is his 5th year in a row to the finals.
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He is playing like a man possessed tonight, but it still might not be enough. I have to give Blatt some credit for once; the Cavs are playing superb on defense.
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Games like this make me wonder why I even bother watching. Some dreadful calls in OT by the refs, that have basically screwed the Cavs badly. Awful.
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And yet Cleveland still won. Wow. I thought GS was the better team, but I now think that if Love and Irving were healthy, the Cavs would have taken this. What a shame.
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If LeBron keeps playing like this and the cav's somehow win the series he might pass 06 D-Wade for the best Finals performance of all time. :hefdaddy
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Helped the Cavs that Curry was cold as fuck. Gonna be a loooooong series man.
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LeBron is such a beast. The amount he has to do for the Cavaliers to win is unbelievable. I still think the Warriors are winning the series in five or six, but they're going to be five or six tough games.
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Based on last night, JR Smith could be the key for the Dubs' victory for the rest of the series. He needs to be on the floor as long as possible! :lol
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LeBron is such a beast. The amount he has to do for the Cavaliers to win is unbelievable. I still think the Warriors are winning the series in five or six, but they're going to be five or six tough games.
Agreed. The Warriors look like a team that thinks they can now just show up and win; the Cavs look like they want it really bad. Given how outmanned the Cavs are, the Warriors might still be right, but Cleveland isn't going down easy.
If LeBron keeps playing like this and the cav's somehow win the series he might pass 06 D-Wade for the best Finals performance of all time. :hefdaddy
???
I wouldn't even put that in the conversation for best finals performance ever, especially given the asterisk it gets because of the calls he got at the end of games 4 and 5 (which was basically Stern giving Cuban the middle finger).
Helped the Cavs that Curry was cold as fuck.
The Cavs have to get some credit for that, no? Plus, I forgot the numbers, but Curry's 3-point shooting is way down since that fall against Houston. Makes you wonder if is really 100% in the head.
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Helped the Cavs that Curry was cold as fuck.
The Cavs have to get some credit for that, no?
I agree. The answer is no.
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It's been said already, but it is worth repeating:
The Cavs look like a team that wants the championship bad; the Warriors do not.
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The Cavs are killing it right now :metal I'm not even into the NBA and I'm loving this.
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The Warriors are just embarrassing themselves. Love and Irving are out and the Cavs are just manhandling them. Curry looks nothing like an MVP out there and the whole team looks confused. Game 2 they went what, 8/35 behind the 3 point line? That's desperation right there.
They just look horrible out there. The Cavs actually look like a championship team right now.
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Great comeback by the Warriors, and some absurd shots by Curry, but the Cavs hang on to win. This is crazy. How have they even won two games against this team without Love and Irving??
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How have they even won two games against this team without Love and Irving??
It's baffling. They aren't even playing well, for the most part. The Warriors just cannot hit shots.
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I cannot support LeBron > Magic at this point, not because of charisma. Magic just had eye popping numbers, and was a more true point. That said, I think LeBron is more well rounded, but his FT% is a bit week. At the end of time, it may be apples to oranges. To early to call for me, as LeBron is still making his legacy.
That said, Kobe is jester in the court of all time greats. Hall of Famer? Sure. Jordan was the best and worst thing for basketball ever; the worst is he produced a ton of Kobe like players who were selfish. I deal with kids for my job jacking up selfish shots all day because Mike did it. Little do they know he won when he embraced his coach and team, and he never jacked up buckets of long range shots like Kobe did. And when he was ripping 37 points a game, it was well over 50% with 80% at the line.
Kobe won when he had at least one other solid player, and failed when he didn't. His D was never like Jordan's, and his shooting percentage is subpar if he wants to be the GOAT. Jordan, although weak from 3, stuck in his comfort zone and shot nearly 50% for his career. Disgusting as a SG, and it probably would have been higher if it wasn't for his last 2 years.
Comparing LeBron to Kobe is a bit apples to oranges too, but I would take LeBron in a second. As others said, I see him just as apt to pass. That doesn't make him not clutch, just trying to get others good shots. He takes ill-advised clutch shots at times, but I don't see any more than Kobe. And to me, clutch can be overrated unless he goes into a shell every fourth quarter.
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41.5 PPG/12.0 RPG/8.3 APG/1.3 BPG/1.7 SPL
LeBron's averages for the Finals so far :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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The way the Dubs lost Game 2 at home. Or, seemingly being out played for most of Game 1 and 2 (at home, no less), must play a role in their collective minds. I think that kind of explains why they looked so horrible in the first half at the Q. At this point, the 67 regular season wins means nothing! They need to clear all the noise in their heads, and just being themselves again. The Dubs are better than this.
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It's been said already, but it is worth repeating:
The Cavs look like a team that wants the championship bad; the Warriors do not.
They sure do.
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This is making me feel better about losing to the Cavs.
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I cannot support LeBron > Magic at this point, not because of charisma. Magic just had eye popping numbers, and was a more true point. That said, I think LeBron is more well rounded, but his FT% is a bit week. At the end of time, it may be apples to oranges. To early to call for me, as LeBron is still making his legacy.
That said, Kobe is jester in the court of all time greats. Hall of Famer? Sure. Jordan was the best and worst thing for basketball ever; the worst is he produced a ton of Kobe like players who were selfish. I deal with kids for my job jacking up selfish shots all day because Mike did it. Little do they know he won when he embraced his coach and team, and he never jacked up buckets of long range shots like Kobe did. And when he was ripping 37 points a game, it was well over 50% with 80% at the line.
Kobe won when he had at least one other solid player, and failed when he didn't. His D was never like Jordan's, and his shooting percentage is subpar if he wants to be the GOAT. Jordan, although weak from 3, stuck in his comfort zone and shot nearly 50% for his career. Disgusting as a SG, and it probably would have been higher if it wasn't for his last 2 years.
Comparing LeBron to Kobe is a bit apples to oranges too, but I would take LeBron in a second. As others said, I see him just as apt to pass. That doesn't make him not clutch, just trying to get others good shots. He takes ill-advised clutch shots at times, but I don't see any more than Kobe. And to me, clutch can be overrated unless he goes into a shell every fourth quarter.
I agree with all of this except the first paragraph. LeBron > Magic definitely IMO, but even that is kind of apples and oranges.
As for the Finals, to me it's clear at this point that neither of these teams is that good. The Warriors convinced us all otherwise during the regular season and I'm not sure what it is about them that's being exposed here. Curry had a pretty good game by the time all was said and done, and the final score wasn't a blowout. But to the Cavs' credit, they are the only team I've seen that is finally showing some discipline closing out on the perimeter shooters of GS, and maybe that's the difference.
As for the Cavs, that team is not only injury-laden, but they were not a good team to begin with. LeBron absolutely carries them, and the only fault I can find with the way he's playing his that he's only shooting 40%. But he should not be able to lift this team over the Warriors we watched dominate over the last several months, even with Dellavedova playing like a madman alongside him.
-J
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j, I always wanted to ask you this. Can you shoot a J?
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41.5 PPG/12.0 RPG/8.3 APG/1.3 BPG/1.7 SPL
LeBron's averages for the Finals so far :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Something to add onto this.
LeBron James has scored, assisted, or created 200 of the Cavaliers' 291 points through the first 3 games of the #NBAFinals. Beyond unreal
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I don't think LBJ's less than stellar shooting percentage is a big deal for several reasons:
-Just the threat of him constantly shooting keeps constant pressure on the GS defense. It's like when Randy Moss was in his prime; he could run fly patterns all day, and even when not catching passes, he scared the hell out of defenses and changed how they play.
-They are mucking the game up. GS loves to play fast, but in many cases, the Cavs dribble the clock down to less than 5 on the shot clock, which has a two-pronged effect on the Warriors: 1) it has slowed the game down, meaning the Cavs are dictating the pace, and 2) when James drives and misses, the Warriors are all in the lane trying to stop James and/or get a rebound, and transitioning to the fast break has proven very difficult.
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j, I always wanted to ask you this. Can you shoot a J?
I could in my prime, brother. :lol
I don't think LBJ's less than stellar shooting percentage is a big deal for several reasons:
-Just the threat of him constantly shooting keeps constant pressure on the GS defense. It's like when Randy Moss was in his prime; he could run fly patterns all day, and even when not catching passes, he scared the hell out of defenses and changed how they play.
-They are mucking the game up. GS loves to play fast, but in many cases, the Cavs dribble the clock down to less than 5 on the shot clock, which has a two-pronged effect on the Warriors: 1) it has slowed the game down, meaning the Cavs are dictating the pace, and 2) when James drives and misses, the Warriors are all in the lane trying to stop James and/or get a rebound, and transitioning to the fast break has proven very difficult.
Good points. With regard to #1 though, the ideal use of that "threat" would be to take what the defense gives you, and when they collapse or help, to find your open teammate(s). LeBron largely does a good job of this already, and when he does force it, he's often successful. 40% isn't great, but I watched all of game 3, and to my delight he was going to the hole relentlessly, which is exactly the LeBron he needs to be for this team to go all the way. With the kind of looks he was getting consistently, I would forgive almost any shooting percentage over one game.
To your second point, I'd only argue that attempts very late in the shot clock often turn out to be lower-percentage looks. But there's no question that the Cavs are controlling the pace with their deliberate halfcourt stuff.
-J
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j, same here. :lol
Kev, I love that LeBron is killing it in all areas. Rebounding on both glasses, great D and it's infectious with his teammates. They are hustling everywhere on the floor.
It seems that they punched the big bully in the mouth and the bullies are now stunned and don't know what to do.
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As for the Finals, to me it's clear at this point that neither of these teams is that good. The Warriors convinced us all otherwise during the regular season and I'm not sure what it is about them that's being exposed here. Curry had a pretty good game by the time all was said and done, and the final score wasn't a blowout.
I think it's more that this GSW team is new to the big stage. Curry looks scared at times. I mean, can you blame him? Think about the Thunder when they went against the Heat a few years ago. They looked lost. Many of Miami's guys had been on that level before.
Lebron has been on that level many times now. That's a significant advantage, I believe. I really hope Curry snaps out of it and shuts the Cavs down, I believe they are still that amazing regular season team; they just need to adjust to the glaring spotlight that is the Finals.
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They also, unfortunately, developed some bad habits in a regular season that, by and large, was far too easy for them. Repeatedly, they were able to get into situations where they could passively play through a game without worrying too much about what was going to happen. If they got down or didn't jump out to a big enough lead, they could just lock it down in the 4th quarter and come up with the win, most of the time. That kind of approach is simply not going to work against a LeBron-led team. You can't count on just keeping it close and being able to clamp down at the last minute for the win. You have to play a complete game. Because if it is close in the end, it is just as likely that LeBron and teammates will do just enough to prevent the comeback, which is what happened in games 2 and 3. They were within a basket of winning each of those games. But you can't count on getting past LeBron in those situations without more.
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Interesting. I will admit that due to a very busy year, I didn't watch a single regular season game.
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They also, unfortunately, developed some bad habits in a regular season that, by and large, was far too easy for them. Repeatedly, they were able to get into situations where they could passively play through a game without worrying too much about what was going to happen. If they got down or didn't jump out to a big enough lead, they could just lock it down in the 4th quarter and come up with the win, most of the time. That kind of approach is simply not going to work against a LeBron-led team. You can't count on just keeping it close and being able to clamp down at the last minute for the win. You have to play a complete game. Because if it is close in the end, it is just as likely that LeBron and teammates will do just enough to prevent the comeback, which is what happened in games 2 and 3. They were within a basket of winning each of those games. But you can't count on getting past LeBron in those situations without more.
Good point. So do you think Curry is a great player with bad habit (possibly developed since Mark Jackson was HC), or is Kerr a "bad" coach for not fixing it soon enough?
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I don't think Kerr is a bad coach. And I don't put all this on Curry either. The team as a whole seems to have suffered from that mentality. And I think it is understandable. But still, their mission now is to fix it.
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If I am Golden St., I am double and tripling LeBron every time he touches the ball. Make someone else beat you, for goodness sake.
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True, for some reasons the Dubs just don't seem capable of breaking through what they've done enough to counter what the Cavs are doing to them defensively. Or really disrupt LeBron at all, if they can't do either tonight, they might as well start sizing up the Cavs for their championship rings.
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True, for some reasons the Dubs just don't seem capable of breaking through what they've done enough to counter what the Cavs are doing to them defensively.
I know reasonable minds may differ, but I disagree that the Cavs are shutting the Warriors down defensively. Sure, the Cavs defense is MUCH better than I thought. And they are definitely doing a top-notch job. But the thing is, the Warriors got a LOT of good looks and open shots in games 2 and 3, and just missed them. I credit the Cavs for making ball movement difficult and contesting shots. But the Warriors missing so many open looks is completely on them. And as close as those two games were, making those open shots is the difference between winning and losing those two games.
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True, but the Cavs slowing down the pace has thrown the Warriors off their game, and that can contribute to missed shots, even when uncontested. The Warriors just look uncomfortable and uninspired.
Having said that, I expect them to come out firing tonight and take an early lead.
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True, but the Cavs slowing down the pace has thrown the Warriors off their game, and that can contribute to missed shots, even when uncontested. The Warriors just look uncomfortable and uninspired.
Having said that, I expect them to come out firing tonight and take an early lead.
True. One subtle yet huge thing that a commentator on the radio pointed out this morning (I forget his name, but he is the commentator for the Raptors) is that the Warriors have begun converging on LeBron and/or the rim when shots go up, so they do not give LeBron a second shot. Sounds like a legit strategy, right? Except for the fact that that takes away from the Warriors being halfway up the court and being able to push the pace, as is their style. So that one subtle thing seems to be hugely taking them off their game.
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True, but the Cavs slowing down the pace has thrown the Warriors off their game, and that can contribute to missed shots, even when uncontested. The Warriors just look uncomfortable and uninspired.
Having said that, I expect them to come out firing tonight and take an early lead.
Bingo! I think that's threw the Dubs off more than intense D! And that slow paced game reminded me of the Grizzlies series. Even without Conley for half the series, the Dubs had difficulties handling them for quite some time until they decided to speed the game up since Game 4.
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Warriors made some adjustments and came to play tonight, Iguodala especially. Livingston had a good game too. Weird that Curry and Thompson still haven't really gotten going though.
-J
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What's up with LeBron flashing? Maybe ABC and/or the NBA need to issue an apology?
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Boom. Bring it home tied..
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What's up with LeBron flashing? Maybe ABC and/or the NBA need to issue an apology?
This reads like ABC actually planned it and how I'm imagining it being reported. I didn't see it happen but I can't imagine it's nothing more than Lebron doing something on camera candidly.
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If I am Golden St., I am double and tripling LeBron every time he touches the ball. Make someone else beat you, for goodness sake.
Looks like Golden St. listened to me. ;) :lol :biggrin:
Seriously though, the Cavs looked spent last night. I think their monumental effort in the first three games took its toll last night. It's good for them to have two days off before Game 5. And the Warriors finally looked like the Warriors last night.
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Another thing not talked about after the game last night was Iggy mocking Lebron :lol :lol
(https://www.starrcards.com/wp-content/uploads/andre-iguodala-mocks-lebron-james-in-game-4-of-the-nba-finals.jpg)
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Lol, Kirk Hammett of course using wah for the national anthem. Pretty cool overall though.
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Small ball vs. small ball doesn't seem like the Dubs have the advantage all of a sudden...
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I know I sound old but dann, can we see a traveling call? Damn both team tacking extra steps.
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I know this is the Finals/playoffs, so defense rules. And I didn't watch hardly any reg. season basketball. But geez, is Steph Curry always this sloppy? He is pretty sound all in all, but I swear I just see WTF passes and dribbling after seeing him do a bunch of other solid things.
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Lol, Kirk Hammett of course using wah for the national anthem. Pretty cool overall though.
It's a rock lead guitar part. Hendrix wouldn't have dreamed of doing the national anthem without it and that's one of his biggest influences so why wouldn't he use it?
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Hey look, the "We think can just show up and win" Warriors team is back. :facepalm:
They had the stats and wins to go down as one of the best teams ever, but even if they win this, this pedestrian performance here in the finals disqualifies them from being in that convo now, IMO. Not that the Warriors or their fans will care, because hey, a championship is still a championship.
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Lol, Kirk Hammett of course using wah for the national anthem. Pretty cool overall though.
It's a rock lead guitar part. Hendrix wouldn't have dreamed of doing the national anthem without it and that's one of his biggest influences so why wouldn't he use it?
The version wasn't anything like Hendrix's, it was very much like Satch's, wah and all. Hendrix doesn't relate to this playing of the anthem at all IMO.
I was just drawing attention to Kirk using wah for something, it's his standard sound yes. Hetfield didn't use it however, and he was playing rock guitar counter melodies to Kirk. I do not really understand how lead rock guitar automatically = wah requirement. ??? Kirk has played plenty of melodies without it, so maybe I was just thinking it would have played some of it without it.
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I didn't say it was like Hendrix's, I said he was an influence so yeah he does relate. Hetfield either never uses wah or seldom does and he was mostly playing rhythm. Power chords usually don't sound good with wah (Home being a rare exception.)
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It did not sound anything like Hendrix's, where as Satch's it sounded nearly the same. Satch plays it basically as written with wah, as did Kirk. Hendrix got 4 minutes out of it?
Hetfield did a fair amount of harmonizing with Kirk during it.
And Bulls On Parade. :P
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I'm not fuckin saying Hendrix's rendition was an influence, I'm saying he, as a guitarist, was an influence on his playing in general and he happened to use wah in his SSB performance.
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James and Curry are both playing lights out, and you guys are talking about Metallica? :facepalm:
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:lol
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Curry's best game so far this Finals. My point about his TOs still stands. But he poured it on at the end.
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His timeouts? :lol
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Turnovers?
Lebron's back must be in pain from carrying that team.
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I think LBJ should win the Finals MVP regardless of who wins the series. :hat
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I think LBJ should win the Finals MVP regardless of who wins the series. :hat
Probably but we all know it's not gonna happen. What I would love to see is Iggy getting the finals MVP, he's been playing lights out.
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Probably but we all know it's not gonna happen. What I would love to see is Iggy getting the finals MVP, he's been playing lights out.
Speaking of Iggy, with his very poor FT shooting in Game 5, do you think the Cavs would go Hack-a-Iggy to break the Dubs' rhythm in Game 6?
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Probably but we all know it's not gonna happen. What I would love to see is Iggy getting the finals MVP, he's been playing lights out.
Speaking of Iggy, with his very poor FT shooting in Game 5, do you think the Cavs would go Hack-a-Iggy to break the Dubs' rhythm in Game 6?
Not really. Given how they're only using 7/8 players going hack-a-Iggy would probably get them in some serious foul trouble. Unless Blatt is willing to use some of the bench players specifically for that purpose but I don't see that happening.
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Not really. Given how they're only using 7/8 players going hack-a-Iggy would probably get them in some serious foul trouble. Unless Blatt is willing to use some of the bench players specifically for that purpose but I don't see that happening.
Good point, and I totally forgot about the Cavs' short rotation... speaking of which, I kind of miss watching Marion play. Sadly he looks kind of out of shape to me, I am just not sure if he can last 5 mins out there at the Dubs' pace. :hat
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I think LBJ should win the Finals MVP regardless of who wins the series. :hat
He'll get major consideration now, and probably even a lot of votes, but after last night, it's Curry's to lose (assuming a Warriors series win).
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He'll get major consideration now, and probably even a lot of votes, but after last night, it's Curry's to lose (assuming a Warriors series win).
Either way, his ego reminds me why I never become a serious fan of his... Who would call himself the best player in the world? IIRC, neither MJ or Kobe made such a claim. :facepalm:
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Anyone who doesn't think Tom Gugliotta is the greatest player ever is a stupid fuckin dick.
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He'll get major consideration now, and probably even a lot of votes, but after last night, it's Curry's to lose (assuming a Warriors series win).
Either way, his ego reminds me why I never become a serious fan of his... Who would call himself the best player in the world? IIRC, neither MJ or Kobe made such a claim. :facepalm:
Plenty of athletes over the years have called themselves the best this or the best that. Hell, I remember Joe Flacco proclaiming he was the best QB at one point, which made everyone laugh cause it clearly wasn't true. Now, I get that it is not a great look to call yourself the best when it is obviously to everyone that you are, but great players often take what they consider any kind of slight as motivation, and I suspect James finishing 3rd in the MVP voting this past season pissed him off. His "I am the best player in the world" quote came across to me as a shot like, "You can keep giving MY trophy to other players, but I am still the best."
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Let's see if Oakland burns tonight...
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Bleaher Report is saying instead of signing a 5-year $90M deal with the Bulls, Jimmy Butler is increasingly interested in signing a shorter deal, so he could re-enter free agency when the huge TV deal kicks in 2016-17. It also says he is increasingly interested in signing an offer sheet from the Lakers.
Meanwhile, the Lakers are very interested in drafting Latvian center Kristaps Porzingis. I've seen some Europe league video of his, and he looks like a young version of Dirk. With a pretty quick step and range from beyond the arc. With Randle and J-Hill already in the lineup, I am open to taking a risk in drafting him... especially when he could be Dirk v2.0.
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Let's see if Oakland burns tonight...
I was going to say, "No, let's show some class." But then I remembered. Oakland...
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So far, the Warriors haven't been able to convert the turnovers by the Cavs into points. Wide open jump shots missed. They gotta move the ball around more.
EDIT: I spoke too soon. Warriors are doing great crashing the boards!
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How much of a mismatch is this? Golden St.'s 2nd best player, Klay Thompson, has played like hot garbage for much of this series, yet they are still cruising. Congrats to the Warriors on being as lucky as they are good.
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How much of a mismatch is this? Golden St.'s 2nd best player, Klay Thompson, has played like hot garbage for much of this series, yet they are still cruising. Congrats to the Warriors on having a deep bench.
FTFY.
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^As much due to the Cavs being horrible as anything. That team is COMPLETELY impotent with LeBron on the bench; literally any successes they have are by his hand. I know they're injury-laden, but I think they're actually more pathetic than Boobie Gibson's Cavs from several years back.
I can't explain why they aren't, but Golden State should have led this entire series by a wide margin if they were as good as advertised. This has been an ugly finals, not at all satisfying to watch IMO between the constant missteps, volume shooting, and (as always) poor officiating, among other things.
That said, GS was clearly the better team and I'm glad they are going to win the title. Curry will win finals MVP even though it should probably go to Green or Iguodala.
-J
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Congratulations to Steve Kerr and the Golden State Warriors!!! A great display of team basketball!!!
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I still think Adam Silver is a poorly disguised alien.
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I still think Adam Silver is a poorly disguised alien.
:lol
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Iguodola is the Finals MVP and deserves it. The outcome would have been different if he didn't step up
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Ever since I joined DTF, I entered each NBA thread once, on the first page, with a "GO WARRIORS...... :( " post, as a self depricating jab to the Warriors constant futility. Ironically, this was the first year I did not do that, and lo and behold they are champs.
GO WARRIORS!!!!!!
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I am so happy for GSW. Rooted for them to win it all since the playoffs started, I don't think that's a bad thing to do when your team isn't in it. They truly deserved this.
Also, I remember when Iggy joined GSW. I thought that was a great move. But holy crap, Finals MVP? WOW
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Great comeback by the Warriors to be down 2-1 and win the series in the next 3 games. I was doubting them for a bit, glad to see it happen. I respect Lebron as a player, tremendous talent, but something about him rubs me the wrong way. He's just got this smugness and arrogance to him at times that just annoys me. However, what he did in this series was fantastic. But it just shows one man can't beat a deep team. Yeah the series could have been different if not for the injuries of Love and Irving, and I know so many people will pull the injury card and say the Warriors got lucky, but injuries happen, to tons of teams. The Warriors stayed healthy and that's just a big part of having success in basketball.
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(https://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/16/b03422d55bbf7aa316d4ae54063bb708.jpg)
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I feel as though Cleveland played better WITHOUT Irving and Love. Irving isn't a great defensive player, so having Dellavedova on Curry was their BEST chance of stopping Curry at all this series. Love...well let's be honest.. didn't have much to contribute to the Cavaliers this season. I don't know if it's because he is so use to being the star and having the weight on his shoulder.
Warriors just played great, selfless basketball. Even Klay wasn't hitting shit, that team had other pieces to help make this team win the championship.
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This series was the first time I liked LeBron. Showed real greatness. Shame he had no help. Congrats to the Warriors.
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I feel as though Cleveland played better WITHOUT Irving and Love. Irving isn't a great defensive player, so having Dellavedova on Curry was their BEST chance of stopping Curry at all this series. Love...well let's be honest.. didn't have much to contribute to the Cavaliers this season. I don't know if it's because he is so use to being the star and having the weight on his shoulder.
Warriors just played great, selfless basketball. Even Klay wasn't hitting shit, that team had other pieces to help make this team win the championship.
Averaging 16 points and 10 rebounds a game is nothing?? ??? ???
There is no doubt in my mind that if Love and Irving had been healthy, the Cavs would have won it. However, things happen how they happen, and the luck factor in regards to injuries is part of it, and the Warriors were much luckier than the Cavs in that regard, hence them winning the championship.
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The Warriors health was a miracle. Their training staff did a phenomenal job keeping everyone on the court. Did any of their rotation players even miss a game in these playoffs? Truly a special bunch.
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I feel as though Cleveland played better WITHOUT Irving and Love. Irving isn't a great defensive player, so having Dellavedova on Curry was their BEST chance of stopping Curry at all this series. Love...well let's be honest.. didn't have much to contribute to the Cavaliers this season. I don't know if it's because he is so use to being the star and having the weight on his shoulder.
I tend to agree. Of course, we will never know. It's easy to look at the close games and wonder "what if" if Cleveland would have had either Love or Irving to give them just a couple of shots more. But the thing is, what they would have gained on offense, they would have lost on defense. And that unexpected stifling defense is what kept the Cavs in it. What they would have gained in offense with Love and Irving, they would have lost on defense, and I think that would have made it even more lopsided in favor of the Warriors. But again, we'll never know. And I completely get the argument for how things might have been different with Love and Irving in. I can't say it is wrong. But I have been thinking about it for a few games now, and I just disagree.
And as far as injuries, I can't pretend that the Warriors' injuries were near the level of Cleveland's. But Curry was NOT 100% after his fall. He warmed up and played well. But he was still not quite himself. And Klay, despite his monster defense, MUST have still been off from his concussion. Klay does not miss that many shots over the course of that many games. He just doesn't. And he had some strange defensive breakdowns as well.
It would be cool to see how this series might have gone if both teams were 100%. But it is what it is. And I am not convinced that the ultimate outcome would not have been the same.
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If nothing else, this stupid notion that the leagues needs franchises like the Lakers, Knicks and Celtics to be good, has been shattered. Last night was the highest rated Game 6 in basketball ever. The NBA is a league where stars get the ratings, not teams.
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I'm still not sure how LeBron managers to simultaneously be so offputting and likeable.
I guess maybe that's the kind of duality that just comes naturally from someone having seeds of humility in their being, while being so great and something from such a young age that they grow up surrounded by people who intentionally or unintentionally just feed their ego.
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I'm still not sure how LeBron managers to simultaneously be so offputting and likeable.
I guess maybe that's the kind of duality that just comes naturally from someone having seeds of humility in their being, while being so great and something from such a young age that they grow up surrounded by people who intentionally or unintentionally just feed their ego.
On one hand, he knows how good he is and is unapologetic about it, which usually plays well. On the other hand, he was throwing his teammates under the bus in his post-game press conference. Nobody likes someone who won't take responsibility when they fail. He wants all of the glory but none of the struggle.
This is why people loved MJ, even though he's at least as big an asshole. MJ always emphasized that his road to success was hard and that his failures were a part of his greatness. You can call it MJ nostalgia goggles if you want but it's presenting yourself in a fundamentally different way.
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Ah, I was waiting for the resident LBJ critic to show up and find a way to criticize him after his all-time great individual performance. :lol
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...he was throwing his teammates under the bus in his post-game press conference. Nobody likes someone who won't take responsibility when they fail. He wants all of the glory but none of the struggle.
Granted I did not see most of his post-game, but from everything I have seen and heard this season, that is not really accurate. He seemed quite willing to shoulder the responsibility. But he also said that he struggled mightily and did everything he could possibly do, and that that just wasn't enough (e.g., from the press conference, "It hurts me to know that I wish I coulda did better and done more and give more effort..."). That isn't really throwing his teammates under the bus, in my opinion, because I think it was clear to everyone who watched the series that he really DID do everything he could possibly do. It really looked to me like he left EVERYTHING out there on the court and had nothing held back at all. So I don't have any problem with that at all. I respect the way he played, and I have no problem with him telling it like it is on that point.
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Plus, anybody in his position would be frustrated and pissed as hell. I mean, he just put a performance in the finals as good as anyone's has ever been, against, on paper, one of the best single season teams ever, and he was surrounded by a bunch of stiffs. Think of this: not a single guard on the Cavs scored a single point in the finals when James was not in the game. That is ridiculous.
Even more ridiculous is the people who think that James now being 2-4 in the finals is a mark against him. Whenever someone pulls out that argument, I assume they are really stupid or just a gigantic hater (and I hate using the word hater, but it applies here).
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Did LBJ really say "We ran out of talent"? Or did you really say "We ran out of time"? I only listened to it once live, and couldn't quite tell, and the next thing I know everyone was talking about how he threw his teammates off the bus etc.
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Plus, anybody in his position would be frustrated and pissed as hell. I mean, he just put a performance in the finals as good as anyone's has ever been, against, on paper, one of the best single season teams ever, and he was surrounded by a bunch of stiffs. Think of this: not a single guard on the Cavs scored a single point in the finals when James was not in the game. That is ridiculous.
Even more ridiculous is the people who think that James now being 2-4 in the finals is a mark against him. Whenever someone pulls out that argument, I assume they are really stupid or just a gigantic hater (and I hate using the word hater, but it applies here).
Before the Finals, FiveThirtyEight did an article ranking the previous 60 supporting casts in the Finals (30 years, two teams per season). If I'm remembering correctly, LeBron has played with two of the four or five worst supporting casts ever (2007 and 2015) and another bottom ten supporting cast (2014). On the flip side, he's also played against four of the 15 best supporting casts during that same timespan.
That 2-4 is mostly because of his teammates and the stiff competition he's faced, outside of 2011, where he just looked confused. :lol
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2011 will always be the one stain on his record. While I do not believe in karma, the 2011 finals was like the sports gods making him pay for The Decision. Plus, the Mavericks deserved a title, especially against Miami, after the way they were jobbed in '06 by the refs (and Stern). But, James has mostly been nothing short of outstanding over the course of his playoff career, so holding three mediocre games against him for forever seems a bit, well, dumb, but you know how some are. ;)
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...he was throwing his teammates under the bus in his post-game press conference. Nobody likes someone who won't take responsibility when they fail. He wants all of the glory but none of the struggle.
Granted I did not see most of his post-game, but from everything I have seen and heard this season, that is not really accurate. He seemed quite willing to shoulder the responsibility. But he also said that he struggled mightily and did everything he could possibly do, and that that just wasn't enough (e.g., from the press conference, "It hurts me to know that I wish I coulda did better and done more and give more effort..."). That isn't really throwing his teammates under the bus, in my opinion, because I think it was clear to everyone who watched the series that he really DID do everything he could possibly do. It really looked to me like he left EVERYTHING out there on the court and had nothing held back at all. So I don't have any problem with that at all. I respect the way he played, and I have no problem with him telling it like it is on that point.
I completely agree. I'm bewildered when people will unanimously declare him the best player in the game and when he himself actually acknowledges that fact he's suddenly an ego-maniac. I've heard this over the last few days on the radio and it blows me away. The average person wants to talk and talk and talk about how great someone is and when that same person actually does mention how great they are suddenly they're self centered, not a team player, and disgraceful as the aftermath.
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Even more ridiculous is the people who think that James now being 2-4 in the finals is a mark against him. Whenever someone pulls out that argument, I assume they are really stupid or just a gigantic hater (and I hate using the word hater, but it applies here).
LeBron will turn into Tom Brady/Elway v. Montana/Bradshaw. People argue Montana was "perfect," because getting there and winning negates any early exits. Jordan was 6 for 6, and James 2 for 6 for now. And somehow that will taint his legacy as one of the greatest, in a team sport, when he was more of a team player numbers wise than Jordan.
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I completely agree. I'm bewildered when people will unanimously declare him the best player in the game and when he himself actually acknowledges that fact he's suddenly an ego-maniac. I've heard this over the last few days on the radio and it blows me away. The average person wants to talk and talk and talk about how great someone is and when that same person actually does mention how great they are suddenly they're self centered, not a team player, and disgraceful as the aftermath.
Bosk summed it up nicely here, I think:
I guess maybe that's the kind of duality that just comes naturally from someone having seeds of humility in their being, while being so great and something from such a young age that they grow up surrounded by people who intentionally or unintentionally just feed their ego.
We all find humility an appealing and admirable characteristic in people, but we don't often encounter a person who is the undisputed *best* at something. I suspect LeBron probably demonstrates humility in other aspects of his life, but when it comes to basketball, would we really prefer him to give us a facade of false modesty? He has respect for the great players that came before him and recognizes that his game can still improve, but he also is secure in the fact that he is indisputably the best basketball player in the world, and continues to demonstrate it.
Now if Marco Bellinelli announced that he were the best player in the world, we'd react like we would when virtually anybody claims to be the best at anything: with disgust at the unjustified conceit. Not often do we see someone who is so definitively the best at what they do. As far as athletes go, in my lifetime I can only think of MJ, LeBron, maybe Wayne Gretzky, and maybe Tiger Woods in his prime. That's not very many dudes with the license to acknowledge their own superiority; it's no wonder it still makes us uncomfortable.
-J
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Ah, I was waiting for the resident LBJ critic to show up and find a way to criticize him after his all-time great individual performance. :lol
Not criticizing the basketball he played. Games 2 and 3 were religious experiences. And he was trying to give the same performance the rest of the series, but his body quit on him.
...he was throwing his teammates under the bus in his post-game press conference. Nobody likes someone who won't take responsibility when they fail. He wants all of the glory but none of the struggle.
Granted I did not see most of his post-game, but from everything I have seen and heard this season, that is not really accurate. He seemed quite willing to shoulder the responsibility. But he also said that he struggled mightily and did everything he could possibly do, and that that just wasn't enough (e.g., from the press conference, "It hurts me to know that I wish I coulda did better and done more and give more effort..."). That isn't really throwing his teammates under the bus, in my opinion, because I think it was clear to everyone who watched the series that he really DID do everything he could possibly do. It really looked to me like he left EVERYTHING out there on the court and had nothing held back at all. So I don't have any problem with that at all. I respect the way he played, and I have no problem with him telling it like it is on that point.
I mean the quotes like:
"We had 14 assists tonight, I had 9 of them. I didn't enjoy that."
"We ran out of talent tonight."
And there was stuff where he was talking about how his teammates were standing around waiting for him to make plays. And him constantly mentioning that Love and Irving were injured.
Those quotes in isolation may or may not be bad. I dunno. I don't like athletes calling out teammates, but that's a personal thing. The broader issue is that, if the Cavs won, he wouldn't be talking about any of that stuff. So it's like, if they lose it's not his fault. If they win it's because he's awesome. Can't have it both ways.
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He can in this case, because this time it really wasn't his fault at all that they lost, and if they had somehow won, he would have gotten the lion's share of the credit, and rightly so.
As for calling out his teammates, well, you'd be a little frustrated too if you had played like he did and gotten so little support. It's hard to fault his teammates entirely, largely because some of them are not meant to play as much as they did, but because of the injuries, had to, but I think that James was just incredibly frustrated that their season ended the way it did because their 2nd and 3rd best players were hurt. I doubt Jordan would have smiled and given props to his teammates back in 1997 or 1998 had he not had Pippen AND Rodman, and the Jazz had beaten them. Plus, James is probably the most criticized athlete in the world, which is crazy when you consider how good he is, and don't think he doesn't know that.
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LeBron doesn't seem like a bad guy to me, but he's got a huge ego, and is a bit of a control freak. Marc Stein just wrote an article criticizing LeBron for kind of bullying David Blatt. That kind of thing is not cool.
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LeBron doesn't seem like a bad guy to me, but he's got a huge ego, and is a bit of a control freak. Marc Stein just wrote an article criticizing LeBron for kind of bullying David Blatt. That kind of thing is not cool.
I read that article, and that makes me like LBJ even less. I mean, sure, he is a freak of nature on the court. Yet, though he once said he just wanted to be one of the guys on the team, his actions suggest otherwise. I am sure David Blatt is a very capable coach than he showed in the Finals (his coaching resume is pretty impressive before the Cavs), and maybe he needs to find a team where he can actually teach and coach. :hat
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LeBron doesn't seem like a bad guy to me, but he's got a huge ego, and is a bit of a control freak. Marc Stein just wrote an article criticizing LeBron for kind of bullying David Blatt. That kind of thing is not cool.
I read that article, and that makes me like LBJ even less. I mean, sure, he is a freak of nature on the court. Yet, though he once said he just wanted to be one of the guys on the team, his actions suggest otherwise. I am sure David Blatt is a very capable coach than he showed in the Finals (his coaching resume is pretty impressive before the Cavs), and maybe he needs to find a team where he can actually teach and coach. :hat
Also, remember what LeBron was saying and tweeting about Kevin Love earlier in the year. Wouldn't blame Kevin at all for not wanted to deal with that shit.
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Parade day, haven't seen this much blue and yellow around in ages, trains are packed, spirits are so high, similar atmosphere to 2010 when the Giants took it, just not as black ;) . Gotta love championships man!!!!
Ok, you all can go back to talking about the losing team again.
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Again, congrats to the Dubs!!
Steve Kerr is such a class act, loyal guy!! The first person he thanked right after they won was Lute Olson!! How awesome is that? :hat
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LeBron doesn't seem like a bad guy to me, but he's got a huge ego, and is a bit of a control freak. Marc Stein just wrote an article criticizing LeBron for kind of bullying David Blatt. That kind of thing is not cool.
I don't know much about Stein, but that article reeked of nitpicking. He acts like James is the first NBA star to ever "make" his head coach draw a new play up in the huddle. Yeah, that never happens. :lol :lol :lol Honestly, his article smacks of "Well, I can't criticize James the player anymore, because he is too good, and I will look dumb if I do it, so I will pick nits about other stuff." Some people just live to criticize LeBron James.
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Though that is the problem you see a lot in the NBA Kev. The inmates run the asylum.
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That is true, but to veer off into another discussion, I like watching pro basketball (the playoffs) better than March Madness now because the coaches let the players play in the pros. In college ball, most of the coaches spend the whole game running back and forth, yelling plays and advice to players on the court, while in the pros, you rarely see coaches do that. Granted, once you become a good pro, you can be trusted to not need advice the whole game, unlike many green college players, but I just get tired of seeing college coaches running around yelling the whole freaking game. Steve Kerr clearly comes from the Phil Jackson school of coaching, where 9 times out of 10 you see him on the bench, he looks like he is kicked back and ready for a nap. :lol :lol
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That is true, but to veer off into another discussion, I like watching pro basketball (the playoffs) better than March Madness now because the coaches let the players play in the pros. In college ball, most of the coaches spend the whole game running back and forth, yelling plays and advice to players on the court, while in the pros, you rarely see coaches do that. Granted, once you become a good pro, you can be trusted to not need advice the whole game, unlike many green college players, but I just get tired of seeing college coaches running around yelling the whole freaking game. Steve Kerr clearly comes from the Phil Jackson school of coaching, where 9 times out of 10 you see him on the bench, he looks like he is kicked back and ready for a nap. :lol :lol
Jackson's Zen-like style is partly due to his hip and back problems where he can't really move or walk around along the sideline freely. :lol
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True, but in the case of Kerr, I like that he is like that. He coaches them beforehand to be ready for the game, and then lets them play. And the results are more than obvious. This team never would have gotten over the hump with Mark Jackson, yet they won it all in Kerr's first year. Just goes to show you how important coaching is.
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This team never would have gotten over the hump with Mark Jackson
I'm not so sure about that.
-J
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Well, we'll obviously never know, but, and this is just me, the Warriors under Jackson the previous two years reminded me a bit of the Suns teams in the mid 00s; fun and exciting to watch, but you just knew that their style would never get them a championship. That changed under Kerr. The team just looked...different this year. It reminds me of Doug Collins and Phil Jackson and the Bulls 25 years ago. Like Jackson, Collins was a solid coach, but it took Phil Jackson taking over to get them over the hump in just his second year (while Kerr did it in his first).
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^Yeah, I can agree with that assessment. I still wonder if their style will be "sustainable" in the long-term; that is, if they'll continue to be contenders over the next several seasons as circumstances change.
-J
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The Warriors got a major break in terms of injury is concerned. I still believe with a healthy Mike Conley, that Grizzlies series might have a much different outcome. Now that the entire league has been taking note on their style of plays, I think next season they will not have as easy a path in the Playoffs. There are the Clippers, Rockets, Grizzlies and then a healthy Thunder and a wiser Pelicans team. I have not even mentioned the Mavs, Spurs and of course, the Lakers :lol. What I am saying is, I can't wait for the 15-16 season to start already! :hat
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LOL at the Lakers indeed. They still won't be relevant.
The Warriors did catch a break, considering all four teams they played in the playoffs had an injured point guard at some point, but part of winning a championships is the luck factor, not just being good, and the luck factor was definitely on their side. But I would not say they had an easy path in the playoffs this year considering the four teams they beat won, respectively, 50, 55, 56 and 53 games. I don't know the history of that stat, but I imagine they have be one of the few teams that won an NBA title by beating teams that won 50+ games in all four rounds. That alone is damn impressive.
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LOL at the Lakers indeed. They still won't be relevant.
The Warriors did catch a break, considering all four teams they played in the playoffs had an injured point guard at some point, but part of winning a championships is the luck factor, not just being good, and the luck factor was definitely on their side. But I would not say they had an easy path in the playoffs this year considering the four teams they beat won, respectively, 50, 55, 56 and 53 games. I don't know the history of that stat, but I imagine they have be one of the few teams that won an NBA title by beating teams that won 50+ games in all four rounds. That alone is damn impressive.
As a Lakers fan, I just have to find humor in our otherwise miserable past 3 or so seasons... :lol :facepalm: Looking forward to the draft on Thursday though. :hat
Yes, I agreed being in the position to win it all, you must be loaded with talents AND with a ton of luck along the way. Defending a title is WAY harder to win your first one. They won't win another 60 plus games, I don't think; and they likely won't earn home court again either. I am anxious to see how the Warriors respond comes next season. A lot of it depends on the schedule, and if those schedulers are kind to them; they may have a softer early season with no long road trips. We will see.