DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Mindflux on June 13, 2014, 08:25:51 AM
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Have any of you seen this thing for TweetSecret?
https://tweetsecret.com/vip/mikeportnoy
For only 2.99 a month you can follow him as he talks about whatever he wants to ramble about.
I asked him (via twitter) why "shh it's a secret" if it's supposed to generate revenue?
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Hmm, interesting idea. Man, I'll give MP this; he has always been a guy who certainly opens up a lot of different potential revenue streams for himself.
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What's the difference between Tweet Secret and Twitter, other than having to pay for it?
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What's the difference between Tweet Secret and Twitter, other than having to pay for it?
In this case, exclusive videos from the artists you follow for $2.99/mo.
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Holy crap. That's his archives? I thought he was in a bookstore or public library.
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Yeah, I think I'll pass...
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Hmm, interesting idea. Man, I'll give MP this; he has always been a guy who certainly opens up a lot of different potential revenue streams for himself.
I was kind of surprised by this list:
Top In-App Purchases
TBoz $2.99
Mike Portnoy $2.99
Jericho $2.99
Rampage Jackson $2.99
Michael Sweet $2.99
Raul Jimenez $2.99
Rob Van Dam $2.99
Miguel Layun $2.99
Chavo Guerrero Jr. $2.99
Marco Fabian $2.99
I had no idea still cared about T-Boz after TLC split due to Left-Eye's passing.
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That list is surprising and such an odd grouping of individuals. I particularly don't have an interest in subscribing to MP's, honestly this is right up his alley though. He certainly is one guy who I think would be consistent with pushing out cool content to his followers and really giving valuable information out. I'm just not interested enough in his post-DT projects to pay $2.99 a month to find out info a little quicker than everyone else.
If I was seriously considering subscribing though, my first question or concern would be; what if the artist is diligent about posting content to this for the first few months and then it begins to fade into nothing as they get busier? Is there a contract commitment or is it month-to-month?
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What's the difference between Tweet Secret and Twitter, other than having to pay for it?
In this case, exclusive videos from the artists you follow for $2.99/mo.
Mehhhhhh. Most artists who use Twitter just do that on there. Seems like a total waste of money.
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I hope he sees most of the money for it and not the technology company. If there's one guy who can make this worth it, it would be him.
Me? I'd rather pay $100 during an open house to his basement once a year for a guided tour of his music collection. He might see more of the money that way too.
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I hope he sees most of the money for it and not the technology company. If there's one guy who can make this worth it, it would be him.
Me? I'd rather pay $100 during an open house to his basement once a year for a guided tour of his music collection. He might see more of the money that way too.
haha, I might actually pay for that!
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:rollin
Wow... I mean, I love the guy, but holy crap. It's not a lot of money but the concept is so absolutely pretentious and inane. It's a bad joke, really. :lol Paying to hear a guy speak about what millions do everyday through the interwaves. He plays drums nice, but paying to hear him talk is kind of ridiculous. We're not gonna be hearing anything too mind-boggling (GOING OUT ON A LIMB HERE :-* ). But hey, to each their own. I also think it's ridonkulous to pay for pronz and yet :huh:
Note: I suppose I'm more here to laugh at the entire concept of TweetSecret (it's also no secret I'm not a fan of any social media, late disclaimer) but even more so for a guy who isn't exactly known for his...thoughts... This can be said for any celeb, though. Yes. Mike Portnoy is still a god damn celebrity and don't you fucking forget it. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yeah, seems like a waste of money to me. But, I'm sure people will do it.
If James LaBrie had his own thing where he sent private videos of him doing naughty things with his forklift, then that's a whole different story, take my fucking money.
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Well yeah, but that's like comparing cheesecake and licorice.
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Licorice...SO EVIL!
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Well yeah, but that's like comparing cheesecake and licorice.
Is that why JLB and MP don't get along?
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Yeah, neat idea as other's have said.
Just not interested (I wouldn't do it for DT), cannot justify the cost (or time spent), and is a bit too much access.
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What's the difference between Tweet Secret and Twitter, other than having to pay for it?
In this case, exclusive videos from the artists you follow for $2.99/mo.
Mehhhhhh. Most artists who use Twitter just do that on there. Seems like a total waste of money.
Blatant cash grab.
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I particularly don't have an interest in subscribing to MP's, honestly this is right up his alley though. He certainly is one guy who I think would be consistent with pushing out cool content to his followers and really giving valuable information out.
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Yeah but most people do that for free.
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I hope he sees most of the money for it and not the technology company. If there's one guy who can make this worth it, it would be him.
Me? I'd rather pay $100 during an open house to his basement once a year for a guided tour of his music collection. He might see more of the money that way too.
You'd pay $100 to stare at different media formats?
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Yeah but most people do that for free.
Exactly. Oy vey.
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Yeah but most people do that for free.
Exactly. Oy vey.
If this will result in him saving his "telling it like it is" for the people who are a part of this exclusive club, and giving the rest something that even a liiittle resembles regular PR, I'm all for it.
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What's to stop his secrets from getting out? Say someone asks his opinion on DT and/or its members, and he actually answers honestly, and the answer isn't so friendly, someone will find a way to leak it.
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I can see someone from Blabbermouth signing up for this, yes :lol
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The problem is that he's already quite active on Twitter. Seems to me that this would mean less free stuff, or if nothing else, him flipping coin to decide if it's free or nor. As for content, JR posts stuff all the time on his Youtube channel. I enjoy it a great deal, but I doubt I'd pay $3 for it.
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Well he released some kind of video with the vocal demo of Honor Thy Father. You can't get that anywhere else I suppose.
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Well he released some kind of video with the vocal demo of Honor Thy Father. You can't get that anywhere else I suppose.
That's true. However, while cool, doesn't really appeal to me.
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Subscribing to Mike Portnoy on Tweet Secret was the greatest decision I've ever made.
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I'm coming to believe that the M in MP stands for "monetization".
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I'm coming to believe that the M in MP stands for "monetization".
Actually, it stands for Mike, which is short for Michael. The more you know!
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Yeah? And the P? What's your theory for that, huh? HUH? See, you got *nothing*, nothing I say!
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The P stands for Profit. :neverusethis:
No wait....... DAMMIT
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:lol
Seriously though, I have no idea how big his list of "MP warriors" is these days, but I just can't see a lot of people doing this. If MP was still part of DT, maybe.
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So what - you pay $3 a month and you get MP just chatting to his iphone for a few minutes about stuff he couldn't tweet or facebook ?
And he thinks people won't just immediately upload it to YT or just tell everyone anyway ?
INB4 - the " MP Tweet Secret DVD " with commentary track available only on MP.com !
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I think the uploading part will be made difficult because, if I understand this correctly, the videos are tied to the phone with the app you have to download for watching it.
An *actual* secret would of course leak immediately, but let's be honest, I don't think MP has much that is secret to begin with. I think this will just be used by him to make money off snippets from inside the studio or on the road.
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Hey, more power to him. Doesn't really appeal to me, but I wish him good luck, and I hope that what the subscribers get is worth the $3 a month to them.
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I wouldn't want to follow that even if it was free, much less pay for it. :\
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Only a few videos in and so far they've been extremely inspirational as a full time musician, and entirely compelling as a die hard fan.
I wasn't even going to buy it at first, but after spending a few days constantly searching youtube hoping that some TA footage from Sweden Rock had been uploaded (still none had), then seeing that the first video Mike posted was exactly the fix I needed, I HAD to. This guy knows how to treat his fans.
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Only a few videos in and so far they've been extremely inspirational as a full time musician, and entirely compelling as a die hard fan.
I wasn't even going to buy it at first, but after spending a few days constantly searching youtube hoping that some TA footage from Sweden Rock had been uploaded (still none had), then seeing that the first video Mike posted was exactly the fix I needed, I HAD to. This guy knows how to treat his fans.
Sup Mike
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Well he released some kind of video with the vocal demo of Honor Thy Father. You can't get that anywhere else I suppose.
Hmmm....copyrighted material. Did he find a loophole around the separation agreement that he not release any Dream Theater stuff or is he just not being very smart about it?
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Some stuff may be excepted (like demos, for example), or he may have just gotten permission.
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Only a few videos in and so far they've been extremely inspirational as a full time musician, and entirely compelling as a die hard fan.
I wasn't even going to buy it at first, but after spending a few days constantly searching youtube hoping that some TA footage from Sweden Rock had been uploaded (still none had), then seeing that the first video Mike posted was exactly the fix I needed, I HAD to. This guy knows how to treat his fans.
Sup Mike
:rollin Oh no! The secret's out!!
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You seem a tad miffed over what annually equates to 2 or 3 CDs' cost.
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Was just checking the equivalent thread on mp.com, reception there is very lukewarm.
I'm actually wondering what MP would do if it turns out to not have that many subscribers. Could quickly become a chore if you have to regularly create content for a handful of people.
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I think MP's arrangement was a bulk sum unrelated to the amount of subscribers. That would be more profitable for him instead of relating revenue vs subscribers.
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Err, I *very* much doubt that. What kind of company could afford to hand out money like that and not go broke? Much more likely is a "TweetSecret takes a cut of each subscriber fee". Because that's how web service companies usually operate.
So, I was just checking out Mike's FB page. It's gonna be interesting, because this move can cut both ways. Whereas Mike's page used to have the occasional video update that people could check, now any interesting post gets you straight to the " view this video by subscribing to TweetSecret" page. I could see how the casual fan could be rather irritated by that.
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:lol
Seriously though, I have no idea how big his list of "MP warriors" is these days, but I just can't see a lot of people doing this. If MP was still part of DT, maybe.
MP Warriors is an extremely cheesy name for a fan following. It sounds like something a glam metal band from the 80s would have done. Also, it just doesn't fit with any other name...
James LaBrie Warriors
John Myung Warriors
John Petrucci Warriors
Jordan Rudess Warriors
Mike Mangini Warriors
...
Charlie Dominici Warriors does seem fit, though.
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MP Warriors is an extremely cheesy name for a fan following. It sounds like something a glam metal band from the 80s would have done. Also, it just doesn't fit with any other name...
James LaBrie Warriors
John Myung Warriors
John Petrucci Warriors
Jordan Rudess Warriors
Mike Mangini Warriors
...
Charlie Dominici Warriors does seem fit, though.
I don't think Mike thought it up. Though when I saw it starting to sprout up on twitter and saw the that a chick was running it I said to myself about her "oh why don't you just suck his D already".
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Err, I *very* much doubt that. What kind of company could afford to hand out money like that and not go broke? Much more likely is a "TweetSecret takes a cut of each subscriber fee". Because that's how web service companies usually operate.
So, I was just checking out Mike's FB page. It's gonna be interesting, because this move can cut both ways. Whereas Mike's page used to have the occasional video update that people could check, now any interesting post gets you straight to the " view this video by subscribing to TweetSecret" page. I could see how the casual fan could be rather irritated by that.
But at 3.99 per subscriber...even if MP takes half of it...and ASSuming there's 1000 subscribers, he would take about 2k back. That's less than what he probably charges per gig with The Winery Dogs...
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I wonder what being an MP Warrior entails ?
Do you go on YouTube and call all other drummers " shit " and deny DT released any albums after BC&SL ?
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Do you go on YouTube and call all other drummers " shit " and deny DT released any albums after BC&SL ?
I don't even like to admit they released BC&SL. :puke:
Here's the warriors feed if you want to check: https://twitter.com/mpwarriors1
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But at 3.99 per subscriber...even if MP takes half of it...and ASSuming there's 1000 subscribers, he would take about 2k back. That's less than what he probably charges per gig with The Winery Dogs...
Still 24k a year to take little video clips of yourself sporadically isn't bad. Assuming your subscriber count doesn't shrink OR grow. I realize all the numbers are theoretical.. but I can see it being worth it.
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What are the odds Neal Morse and Mike Portnoy spend a good portion of their time hanging out discussing things they can sell?
"Hey Neal, isn't there a demo of you playing 8 seconds of the acoustic melody in Cradle to the Grave? Let's sell it!!"
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Though when I saw it starting to sprout up on twitter and saw that a chick was running it I said to myself about her "oh why don't you just suck his D already".
I wonder what being an MP Warrior entails ?
Do you go on YouTube and call all other drummers " shit " and deny DT released any albums after BC&SL ?
usually I think that DTF is the classiest portion of all DT/MP fan groups, but some of the comments on MP warriors are unnecessarily mean.
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What are the odds Neal Morse and Mike Portnoy spend a good portion of their time hanging out discussing things they can sell?
"Hey Neal, isn't there a demo of you playing 8 seconds of the acoustic melody in Cradle to the Grave? Let's sell it!!"
What the hell? Ok you don't have to buy it then; I and thousands of fans worship every second of it and learn incredibly valuable information about the songwriting process and look at the attitudes of these guys as HUGE role models of how to be a successful person.
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Jeez, I was just being a wise ass. I am actually a huge fan of Neal, both as a musician and a person; he's one of the all-around good guys in the industry. I just get a kick out of the fact that both of them love to sell every little thing they have laying around. Yes, it's good business, and props to both for milking that cash cow for all its worth. :tup :tup
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Jeez, I was just being a wise ass. I am actually a huge fan of Neal, both as a musician and a person; he's one of the all-around good guys in the industry. I just get a kick out of the fact that both of them love to sell every little thing they have laying around. Yes, it's good business, and props to both for milking that cash cow for all its worth. :tup :tup
Yeah. But I have to admit, I'd rather have a CD/DVD every other month than subscribe to short videos. I am a member of Neal's Inner Circle and even though it's 12 USD per month, I do feel it's worth it.
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For $12 a month I'd feel like I owed people an album not a tiny video clip.
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Goo-goo, holy crap, that's a buttload of money. Can you give some examples of what you get, and what frequency?
I'm also trying to think what service would make $12 a month worth to me. The best I could come up with is if DT or PT said "we're gonna put an HD camera on the soundboard and feed the mix into it, and stream it. For $12 a month you can watch any concert of our tour". I think that would be a solid price that a lot of people would jump onto.
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For 2/3 of that price, I watched the first four seasons of Breaking Bad on Netflix last summer.
Okay, I had a free two month deal thanks to a friend giving it to me for my b-day, but still, you get my point.
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I was thinking about making the Netflix argument, but you can't really compare the two. Nobody "supports" Netflix because they're awesome; they're a big company that provides a service, and people buy into it. Neal and MP are "starving" artists, and I'm pretty sure that most subscribers a) of course really want to see the videos etc but b) also see it a bit as a "donation" for their favorite artist so the artist can keep going.
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I agree.
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Oh, I know. :lol
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usually I think that DTF is the classiest portion of all DT/MP fan groups, but some of the comments on MP warriors are unnecessarily mean.
Just sayin my mind. Her twitter handle is 'iheartportnoy'.. so my thoughts on that still stand.
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What's next? Maybe a toiletCAM?
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usually I think that DTF is the classiest portion of all DT/MP fan groups, but some of the comments on MP warriors are unnecessarily mean.
Just sayin my mind. Her twitter handle is 'iheartportnoy'.. so my thoughts on that still stand.
Lol Becky
That's the online DT community I chilled with before discovering DTF.
:lol
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Goo-goo, holy crap, that's a buttload of money. Can you give some examples of what you get, and what frequency?
I'm also trying to think what service would make $12 a month worth to me. The best I could come up with is if DT or PT said "we're gonna put an HD camera on the soundboard and feed the mix into it, and stream it. For $12 a month you can watch any concert of our tour". I think that would be a solid price that a lot of people would jump onto.
I've gotten like Making of Testimony DVD). I've also gotten the Flying Colors and Momentum demo albums...mmmhm...Some early 90s Neal songs and demos, some DVDs of his acoustic tours in Europe, early Snow demos, Whirlwind Demos, Flying Colors Keyboard mix (keybd mixes that did not make it on the FC album), SB's Progfest 97 DVD, Live Scriptura...among others. The ones I don't like I just either sell them on Ebay or give them away. Some of them are DVRs, some CDs are silver pressed or CDRs...but most of the content has been pretty good so far. Some of it is original material, some of it is unheard material, some of it is demo material...the quality is not bad at all considering all of it is done in house.
Forgot to add: I get them every other month, 6 releases per year. Also we get a monthly Inner Circle newsletter that includes news on what Neal is up to, some diary notes, and a spiritual message/discussion (a very short one) on some bible passage. That last section feels a lot less preach than his lyrics. It's more of a thoughts/introspect thing on that section.
It's the only thing I have a subscription. I had netflix but ATT send me a couple of notices that I was using TOO much bandwidth (I got pissed at that...dumped netflix and att that same day...a couple of days of vacation and I can't even fucking enjoy what I like doing..I'm getting pissed just by talking about it LOL).
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That's pretty cool. I'd like to hear those Flying Colors things
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What's next? Maybe a toiletCAM?
Only $10 to Purchase Mike Portnoy's Drum Stool.
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What's next? Maybe a toiletCAM?
When Stream and Pay Unite
Images and Turds
Agape
A Strain From Squeezin
Falling Into Incontinence
Beans From a Memory
Sick Feces of Inner Flatulence
Train of Fart
Schlocktavarium
Septic Chaos
Black Logs & Intestinal Linings
A Colostomatic Burn of Excrement
Dream Theater
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What's next? Maybe a toiletCAM?
When Stream and Pay Unite
Images and Turds
Agape
A Strain From Squeezin
Falling Into Incontinence
Beans From a Memory
Sick Feces of Inner Flatulence
Train of Fart
Schlocktavarium
Septic Chaos
Black Logs & Intestinal Linings
A Colostomatic Burn of Excrement
Dream Theater
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
...
oh
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I just lost my cuppa tea :biggrin: :hefdaddy
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That's pretty cool. I'd like to hear those Flying Colors things
The demos were basically songs Neal had written going in that as a group decided not to pursue any further. I didn't think they were that great to be honest. The alternate mix of the actual FLying Colors album (with the unused keyboard parts) I thought was super cool. I'm not a huge fan of Flying Colors and only listened to the album a couple of times. Getting the remix actually gave me a new reason to listen to the album again, and I liked it quite a bit better than the regular release.
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What's next? Maybe a toiletCAM?
Only $10 to Purchase Mike Portnoy's Drum Stool.
:lol
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That's pretty cool. I'd like to hear those Flying Colors things
The demos were basically songs Neal had written going in that as a group decided not to pursue any further. I didn't think they were that great to be honest. The alternate mix of the actual FLying Colors album (with the unused keyboard parts) I thought was super cool. I'm not a huge fan of Flying Colors and only listened to the album a couple of times. Getting the remix actually gave me a new reason to listen to the album again, and I liked it quite a bit better than the regular release.
Which IC release was that? I think i missed it.
All I know of is this one: https://www.radiantrecords.com/products/400-inner-circle-cd-not-for-flying-colors-may-2012.aspx
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That's pretty cool. I'd like to hear those Flying Colors things
The demos were basically songs Neal had written going in that as a group decided not to pursue any further. I didn't think they were that great to be honest. The alternate mix of the actual FLying Colors album (with the unused keyboard parts) I thought was super cool. I'm not a huge fan of Flying Colors and only listened to the album a couple of times. Getting the remix actually gave me a new reason to listen to the album again, and I liked it quite a bit better than the regular release.
Yeah, what is this and how can i hear it
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AH HAH. It must be this one:
https://www.radiantrecords.com/products/416-inner-circle-cd-island-of-the-lost-keyboards-november-2012.aspx
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I gotta say, props to Neal for delivering this steady stream of content(ness). In that sense, MP's $3 is almost a steal!
I think though, Mike's situation is slightly different than Neal's. Mike is renowned for his free giveaways, and I think that's what a lot of people appreciated about it. It reminds me a lot of the web services that appear for free for several years to build up a user base, and then try to make the jump to a pay-per-content scheme, only to learn that their user base evaporated in a second. It's a precarious move that can cost you a lot of users. As a case in point, the reaction on mp.com to this thing was that it would likely be the final nail in the coffin of mp.com. They were on that forum to keep up to date on Mike's projects and view the occasional video. But now that content is behind the paywall and thus won't appear on mp.com anymore, rendering the site moot.
I think one poster on mp.com got it right: Those videos shouldn't be seen as content (unlike Neal's actual content), but rather advertisement for the real content. For example, the video of the video shoot for the next Flying Colors album. Sure, he gets money from the subscribers, but there's also a lot of people who don't see this "ad" for FC.
Bottom line is, there's "exclusive", and then there's "too exclusive".
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"Not for flying colors" are the demos that were underwhelming to me. 'The island of lost keyboards" is the mix that I spoke highly of.
On the topic of subscriptions, only about 20% of Neal's IC releases I get much out of. In fact, I have many I've never even opened. But even then it is still a collectors item. A privileged tweet doesn't give you that IMO.
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What's next? Maybe a toiletCAM?
Only $10 to Purchase Mike Portnoy's Drum Stool.
:clap:
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:)
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I gotta say, props to Neal for delivering this steady stream of content(ness). In that sense, MP's $3 is almost a steal!
I think though, Mike's situation is slightly different than Neal's. Mike is renowned for his free giveaways, and I think that's what a lot of people appreciated about it. It reminds me a lot of the web services that appear for free for several years to build up a user base, and then try to make the jump to a pay-per-content scheme, only to learn that their user base evaporated in a second. It's a precarious move that can cost you a lot of users. As a case in point, the reaction on mp.com to this thing was that it would likely be the final nail in the coffin of mp.com. They were on that forum to keep up to date on Mike's projects and view the occasional video. But now that content is behind the paywall and thus won't appear on mp.com anymore, rendering the site moot.
I think one poster on mp.com got it right: Those videos shouldn't be seen as content (unlike Neal's actual content), but rather advertisement for the real content. For example, the video of the video shoot for the next Flying Colors album. Sure, he gets money from the subscribers, but there's also a lot of people who don't see this "ad" for FC.
Bottom line is, there's "exclusive", and then there's "too exclusive".
Are you implying that the man with 892 professional bands can't handle two or three different social medias?
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He's only fully active in Flying Colors, Transatlantic (until recently) and The Winery Dogs nowadays (I think). They're slowly building up from the get-go, but they're still not at that DT point where 3000+ people will instantly pay for the tweet secrets. I may be wrong, though. His hardcore fan base is extremely loyal.
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I gotta say, props to Neal for delivering this steady stream of content(ness). In that sense, MP's $3 is almost a steal!
I think though, Mike's situation is slightly different than Neal's. Mike is renowned for his free giveaways, and I think that's what a lot of people appreciated about it. It reminds me a lot of the web services that appear for free for several years to build up a user base, and then try to make the jump to a pay-per-content scheme, only to learn that their user base evaporated in a second. It's a precarious move that can cost you a lot of users. As a case in point, the reaction on mp.com to this thing was that it would likely be the final nail in the coffin of mp.com. They were on that forum to keep up to date on Mike's projects and view the occasional video. But now that content is behind the paywall and thus won't appear on mp.com anymore, rendering the site moot.
I think one poster on mp.com got it right: Those videos shouldn't be seen as content (unlike Neal's actual content), but rather advertisement for the real content. For example, the video of the video shoot for the next Flying Colors album. Sure, he gets money from the subscribers, but there's also a lot of people who don't see this "ad" for FC.
Bottom line is, there's "exclusive", and then there's "too exclusive".
Are you implying that the man with 892 professional bands can't handle two or three different social medias?
I'm saying that Mike won't just suddenly increase his content output by a factor of two. He will take a video of some event, and where he used to post it on mp.com and FB, he now posts it as a TweetSecret link of FB. I think it's rather obvious that the "freebie" times are over; case in point, two of his FB posts of the last two days were TweetSecret links. And those were the interesting ones, i.e. videos.
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:rollin holy crap the new one
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Well ... what is it?
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Well ... what is it?
A secret :neverusethis:
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Well ... what is it?
Who cares?
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Well ... what is it?
A secret :neverusethis:
Shhhh
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it
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HAH I'm not telling you.
No I'm kidding I just figured you guys saw it on his Facebook page "Beard grooming tips with Mike"
A walk-through of him getting his beard colored by the professional stylist that he goes to!!
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A packet of Kool Aid powder?
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HAH I'm not telling you.
No I'm kidding I just figured you guys saw it on his Facebook page "Beard grooming tips with Mike"
A walk-through of him getting his beard colored by the professional stylist that he goes to!!
Oh.
Somebody made the comment on FB that he was unsubscribing from MP's Twitter account. I just looked at it and yeah, there's no point in subscribing unless you pay for the TweetSecret thing. Every tweet is just a link to TweetSecret.
Wouldn't be surprised if Twitter put the kabosh on that actually. In the end TweetSecret is using Twitter as a free linking service.
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HAH I'm not telling you.
No I'm kidding I just figured you guys saw it on his Facebook page "Beard grooming tips with Mike"
A walk-through of him getting his beard colored by the professional stylist that he goes to!!
Worth every penny.
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Oh that's a shame! Maybe they didn't read this- "Oops! Seems I deleted all my previous Tweet Secret videos from the server...I'm gonna re-up em now so excuse the onslaught of upcoming links"
His Twitter feed hasn't slowed at all, in fact he just answered a random DT-related question from a twitter follower.
And :lol Kool Aid powder
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Wouldn't be surprised if Twitter put the kabosh on that actually. In the end TweetSecret is using Twitter as a free linking service.
So every other company that advertises deals of the day etc that also benefit from tweeting about it are an exception?
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Yeah, Mike Portnoy is not the first person to use social as a promotional tool for selling something, and he won't be the last. Not a big deal.
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I hear they are already working on a TweetTopSecret, where you get access to info that is even too secretive for TweetSecret. :laugh:
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Wouldn't be surprised if Twitter put the kabosh on that actually. In the end TweetSecret is using Twitter as a free linking service.
So every other company that advertises deals of the day etc that also benefit from tweeting about it are an exception?
Is that so? Sorry, I don't use Twitter at all. I'm just surprised if Twitter let that happen without even wanting a cut.
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Is that so? Sorry, I don't use Twitter at all. I'm just surprised if Twitter let that happen without even wanting a cut.
I don't think twitter would be around very long if they didn't let companies spam their wares.
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The same could be said for FB though, and they make you pay if you want to advertise.
I just googled a bit, and indeed there is "Twitter for Business". Wouldn't be surprised if TweetSecret is required to have that type of account.
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I don't know anything except that I use both (a lot). But I think the only paid things on both websites are posts that come up as "sponsored post" (as in not something you are following) and on Facebook- advertisements (on the right side of the news feed). When MP posts these, it only goes to his followers just as if any other band posted a link to a promo video.
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I think this is slightly different. The fact that there is a middleman company (TweetSecret) changes the situation.
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Thought about this a bit last night and came to the conclusion that it's actually a brilliant idea. $2.99 is a small enough amount that most of his loyal fans will pay it without hesitation. If you look at it from an annual perspective, each person who signs up is going to lay out $35.88 in the first year.
If he can get just 1,000 to sign up, that's just shy of $36k per year.
Check out these numbers - left column is number of subscribers and right column is annual income for that number of subscribers:
1,000 = $36,880
1,500 = $53,820
2,000 = $71,760
2,500 = $89,700
5,000 = $179,400
7,500 = $269,100
I don't know if he'd ever reach 7500 paid subscribers, but when you consider that he's got 1.2 million fans on FaceBook....it would appear that this tweet secret thing is going to prove quite lucrative for Mr. Portnoy.
Kind of humorous to see him squirming a bit on FaceBook trying to rationalize charging money today for something he's been providing at no charge for the last decade or so....as quite a few of his fans are not exactly thrilled with this new paywall he's thrown up.
That said, I don't blame him at all for doing this. He's got to earn and I'm pretty sure that being in Transatlantic isn't much of a living.
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That said, I don't blame him at all for doing this. He's got to earn and I'm pretty sure that being in Transatlantic isn't much of a living.
This is assuming he gets 100% of the revenue, which just isn't possible. Though I bet he gets more than 50% since the draw is the artist, not tweetsecret.
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I don't know anything except that I use both (a lot). But I think the only paid things on both websites are posts that come up as "sponsored post" (as in not something you are following) and on Facebook- advertisements (on the right side of the news feed). When MP posts these, it only goes to his followers just as if any other band posted a link to a promo video.
This sounds about right. If you choose to follow then it's equivalent to a mailing list. Advertising is charged for but that's to reach new people.
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That said, I don't blame him at all for doing this. He's got to earn and I'm pretty sure that being in Transatlantic isn't much of a living.
This is assuming he gets 100% of the revenue, which just isn't possible. Though I bet he gets more than 50% since the draw is the artist, not tweetsecret.
Oh, I'm sure he doesn't get 100% of the revenue, but I'm guessing he gets at least 50% and probably more like 75% since, as you mentioned, the artist is the actual draw.
By the way, I wouldn't do this for anyone, not even my favorite group. I'm not going to pay to view "secret" videos will all show up on YouTube a week after they're released behind the paywall.
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I would be much more likely to spend $2.99 a month if I was guaranteed Mike would be silent.
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:rollin
That reminds me of my Dad. He once paid a Mariachi band to be silent while we were at a Mexican restaurant. :lol
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I don't know if he'd ever reach 7500 paid subscribers, but when you consider that he's got 1.2 million fans on FaceBook....it would appear that this tweet secret thing is going to prove quite lucrative for Mr. Portnoy.
I think it's really hard to tell. The 1.2m Facebook likes probably mostly came about during his DT tenure. Case in point, FB shows you the friends of yours who also like the page, and of the 4 of my friends that it lists, I know of 2 for sure that they stopped listening to anything DT-related a long time ago.
But, the shit show already started:
Every single tweet you send is going through the paid "tweet secret" which really sucks. I'll unsubscribe, because I'm not going to pay for every tweet from you, regardless of how much I love you and your projects. You are alienating a whole lot of your fans.
Chris Pipkins Everytime I post a new video through Tweet Secret, it automatically links here to my FB page...if you don't like seeing it in your feed, then unlike my page!
PS - those are not my "tweets", they are the video clips...they are two entirely separate things.
And I am "alienating my fans" by posting them?? Really, lighten up....
:corn
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He really only responds to negativity doesn't he?
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Not that I am one to defend Mike Portnoy, especially when he runs off at the mouth, but that fan's comment is pretty dumb, for two reasons:
1) every tweet of his is NOT going through the tweetsecret thing. I just looked his twitter account and he has plenty of recent tweets that are just that: tweets (with no video-related stuff).
2) I doubt this is gonna alienate a lot of his fans. Sure, a lot may choose not to pay for this, but I doubt they are gonna feel alienated. And if they do, because of this, they probably need to get a grip.
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I don't know if he'd ever reach 7500 paid subscribers, but when you consider that he's got 1.2 million fans on FaceBook....it would appear that this tweet secret thing is going to prove quite lucrative for Mr. Portnoy.
I think it's really hard to tell. The 1.2m Facebook likes probably mostly came about during his DT tenure. Case in point, FB shows you the friends of yours who also like the page, and of the 4 of my friends that it lists, I know of 2 for sure that they stopped listening to anything DT-related a long time ago.
At the time he quit DT, he had about half of that amount of fans on FB from what I recall (I think it was just shy of 700k at the time). I think JP maybe had about 500k at the time? I know MP had the most fans of the individual DT member pages at the time, and even now JP just edges him out, with everyone else well behind.
Do I really need to link back to rob's amazing post in DT side about your personal evidence for these things? :lol
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Lol. Please, no robwebster posts.
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I’ll start this post by saying overall I am a big Mike fan. I have seen him many times with DT, but also with his Who tribute, Beatles tribute, Transatlantic, Neal Morse, Adrenaline Mob, and I currently have Winery Dogs tickets.
But my biggest complaint with him live is he ruins the flow of some of his live shows by yapping like he is in a bar band. Don’t get me wrong, sometimes it works and it’s entertaining. Other times however its completely self-indulgent and disrupts the flow of the show. A Neal Morse show is the perfect example of that. Neal has a spiritual tone to his shows, but Mike tramples all over it at times. Also, to add a song like “Crazy Horses” to a Neal Morse set list is well…crazy. It totally disrupted what Neal was doing that night. Now Neal loves Mike, and needs him to help draw so he lets Mike do what he pleases. I think its up to Mike to have a clue in certain situations and police his actions. But because he is a total attention whore he doesn’t seem to be able to do that at times.
This is just my opinion, but I can tell others at that show seemed bothered a bit as well.
Trying to be respectfully honest.
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I totally agree with that. The first Yellow Matter Custard show was a great example. He drops f-bombs left and right during the whole show when he talks in between songs, and after a while, it's like, really? And it sucks, too, cause I'd love to show my parents that DVD, cause they are huge Beatles fans, and would likely enjoy it a lot, but they'd ask to turn it off pretty quickly after the first or second f-bomb. I mean, what is the point of dropping that many f-bombs at a show like that? Saying, "That's just how I talk," would be a total cop-out.
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I’ll start this post by saying overall I am a big Mike fan. I have seen him many times with DT, but also with his Who tribute, Beatles tribute, Transatlantic, Neal Morse, Adrenaline Mob, and I currently have Winery Dogs tickets.
But my biggest complaint with him live is he ruins the flow of some of his live shows by yapping like he is in a bar band. Don’t get me wrong, sometimes it works and it’s entertaining. Other times however its completely self-indulgent and disrupts the flow of the show. A Neal Morse show is the perfect example of that. Neal has a spiritual tone to his shows, but Mike tramples all over it at times. Also, to add a song like “Crazy Horses” to a Neal Morse set list is well…crazy. It totally disrupted what Neal was doing that night. Now Neal loves Mike, and needs him to help draw so he lets Mike do what he pleases. I think its up to Mike to have a clue in certain situations and police his actions. But because he is a total attention whore he doesn’t seem to be able to do that at times.
This is just my opinion, but I can tell others at that show seemed bothered a bit as well.
Trying to be respectfully honest.
I'm not bothered by it at all. That is how MP has ALWAYS been. It is Neal and not MP who has changed more over time. I would hate for Transatlantic to be another Christian Rock band like Neal Morse solo, where the concert is like being at a church (at least a cool one...). When I last saw Transtatlantic on the WW tour, it already felt too much that way.
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I’ll start this post by saying overall I am a big Mike fan. I have seen him many times with DT, but also with his Who tribute, Beatles tribute, Transatlantic, Neal Morse, Adrenaline Mob, and I currently have Winery Dogs tickets.
But my biggest complaint with him live is he ruins the flow of some of his live shows by yapping like he is in a bar band. Don’t get me wrong, sometimes it works and it’s entertaining. Other times however its completely self-indulgent and disrupts the flow of the show. A Neal Morse show is the perfect example of that. Neal has a spiritual tone to his shows, but Mike tramples all over it at times. Also, to add a song like “Crazy Horses” to a Neal Morse set list is well…crazy. It totally disrupted what Neal was doing that night. Now Neal loves Mike, and needs him to help draw so he lets Mike do what he pleases. I think its up to Mike to have a clue in certain situations and police his actions. But because he is a total attention whore he doesn’t seem to be able to do that at times.
This is just my opinion, but I can tell others at that show seemed bothered a bit as well.
Trying to be respectfully honest.
I'm not bothered by it at all. That is how MP has ALWAYS been. It is Neal and not MP who has changed more over time. I would hate for Transatlantic to be another Christian Rock band like Neal Morse solo, where the concert is like being at a church (at least a cool one...). When I last saw Transtatlantic on the WW tour, it already felt too much that way.
You really don't get it do you?
Mike is making a paycheck as the drummer in Neal Morses band. Its Neal's act, so its his direction! If Mike doesn't want to be part of Neal's project he can certainly hire another qualified applicant.
Do you think if Neal was playing keyboards for "The Mike Portnoy Project" he would be shouting hallelujah and amen during Mikes show?
Do you not understand its the Neal Morse band and IT IS a Christian prog band?
Mike doesn't get it sometimes. Just because you are allowed to get away with something does not mean you should. Its about respect.
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Actually, you don't get it, dude. Or you don't read.
I'm talking about TA, not Neal Morse's band. Read my post again. I am just saying I would hate for TA to become more like a Neal Morse show. It already is too much like that IMO.
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Okay, but the main point of Tick's original post was about how he acts at Neal's solo shows, but you quoted it and went off on the TA tangent.
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I can't imagine a band where Portnoy was "just" the drummer - sat at the back of the stage - who just plays the entire set sitting down - doesn't say a word and then leaves at the end.
Seems like he has to draw attention to himself with whatever he is doing.
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Okay, but the main point of Tick's original post was about how he acts at Neal's solo shows, but you quoted it and went off on the TA tangent.
Exactly. What does my thoughts on how Mike acts at a solo Neal Morse show have to do with not liking Neal's influence on Transatlantic now and in the future?
Not much
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ive never actually watched a Neal Morse Band concert before (live, on DVD or Youtube).
Does MP actually cuss during Neal Morse concerts?
I know he does during Transatlantic shows, but theyr not truly a Christain band, so its whatever.
If he really takes the mic and swears during Neal Morse shows, then just what the hell, man.
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Okay, but the main point of Tick's original post was about how he acts at Neal's solo shows, but you quoted it and went off on the TA tangent.
Exactly. What does my thoughts on how Mike acts at a solo Neal Morse show have to do with not liking Neal's influence on Transatlantic now and in the future?
Not much
Then my apologies.
However, what does MP do so out of taste at a Neal Morse show? Drop f-bombs on the mic? He even seems on his best behavior with TA.
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Mike does not drop F Bombs at Neal Morse shows. If he did I don't think Neal would stand for it. So just to be clear, I have never heard him do it.
What I am speaking about is how he disrupts the flow of Neal's shows at times by rambling on senselessly when its not necessary. Those shows are not about him in my opinion and his speak should be kept to a minimum. Also, just my opinion.
Just the fact Neal Morse lets Mike make the set lists for his shows blows my mind. I know...its Neal's choice.
BUT being given the privilege to do so he should have enough sense to recognize a Neal show is NOT the right place for him to grate on the audiences nerves by doing the lead vocals in a bullshit Osmonds cover, "Crazy Horses"
It was so out of place and awful it was like nails on a chalkboard. I'll just say I don't think the audience dug that at all.
This is just my personal feelings so if you don't agree its cool. You don't have to.
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I just saw the clip you were talking about.
Wow... yeah.
No words. I take back what I said.
Although it wouldn't have happened if Neal didn't want it to, right?
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I just saw the clip you were talking about.
Wow... yeah.
No words. I take back what I said.
Although it wouldn't have happened if Neal didn't want it to, right?
:tup
I think Neal would prefer not to have that in his set, but I also believe he truly loves Mike and so he allows Mike his self indulgence.
I just think Mike should be wise enough to understand that setting isn't the right place for that. Plenty of other shows he does would be fine for that, just not a Neal solo show.
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While I agree that Neal indulges his pal, I think assuming he'd prefer to not have that kind of stuff in the set lists of his solo shows is wrong. We have no idea, and besides, Neal has loosened back up with the fun and whatnot over the last few years (T2 brought back a little bit of the fun in his music at times, which had been mostly absent since he left Spock's). Not saying he was all serious, but for the first few years after going the solo route, he seemed more serious with everything, but I have the feeling that the fun they all had on TA's Whirlwind tour reminded him of how much fun shows and music can be, so he goes for more of a balance now, hence allowing Portnoy to do Crazy Horses. Plus, Neal probably likes getting to go back there and bash on the drums for a song. :metal
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Yea I'm sure Neal is really uptight about the situation.
(https://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a619/styxkyd/ScreenShot2014-06-21at115714AM_zpse8a3e1e2.png) (https://s1286.photobucket.com/user/styxkyd/media/ScreenShot2014-06-21at115714AM_zpse8a3e1e2.png.html)
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Yea I'm sure Neal is really uptight about the situation.
(https://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a619/styxkyd/ScreenShot2014-06-21at115714AM_zpse8a3e1e2.png) (https://s1286.photobucket.com/user/styxkyd/media/ScreenShot2014-06-21at115714AM_zpse8a3e1e2.png.html)
I would never argue that Neal isn't having fun playing the drums. Why wouldn't he?
But I had to endure this, and no one should have to endure this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qT1r9VWQM8
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That was great! Hell, I was excited just to see the youtube video!
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dang Neal's a good drummer :laugh: :metal
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I'm with you, Tick. This would definitely be bathroom break time if I were there.
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Regarding the swearing, none of the DT guys were good at it. It always sounded out of place.
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Yeah, 40+ guys trying to look cool while playing with a prog metal band does seem like a good recipe for awkwardness :lol
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Especially because they're all these upper middle class kids who went to an expensive arts college :lol
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Yeah what kinda content could one create to make it worth the money?
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Regarding the swearing, none of the DT guys were good at it. It always sounded out of place.
Yeah, 40+ guys trying to look cool while playing with a prog metal band does seem like a good recipe for awkwardness :lol
Especially because they're all these upper middle class kids who went to an expensive arts college :lol
I don't understand this whole line of discussion. Some people swear more than others. What does that have to do with "looking cool", how old they are, or what income bracket they were raised in?
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I can only speak for myself, but to me swearing is something that comes natural to some (maybe because they were raised with that language), and with others it feels put on. Mike's swearing, from day one, felt put on to me. He always reminds me of this German friend of mine who could never get the hang of where to place the word "fuck" in a sentence. He would say stuff like "How could fucking they do this?!" :lol
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Mike just acknowledged some of the hate for TweetSecret in the new video today. Don't take my paraphrase to be his tone exactly, he was very cool and nice about it, but he said he wouldn't let it bother him and that you (meaning me weeeee!!) watching this obviously aren't the one complaining, and that we understand the value of 2.99 a month for having some fun with this with him (we've already seen tons of BTS at his house, with FC at multiple video shoots, at the airport, in his studio) and he said hey, if you see any of that talk around the internet, feel free to jump in a let people know if you're enjoying this.
So I feel all warm inside because I know that even though all you "idiots who just feel like complaining" might hate me, Mike Portnoy still loves me :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :angel:
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I get where Mike is coming from, and it sucks that a vocal minority love to dump on anything and everything he does. But by the same token, what is really frustrating about Mike is his propensity to constantly lump everyone who might not wholeheartedly love everything he does in with the "haters." This site, overally, has always been pretty supportive of him and his various projects. I personally have been pretty supporting. And yet he is always taking shots at us and at me just because there is not unanimous enthusiasm at all times. He was fairly rude to me when I met him a few years back, and he has fairly consistently been pretty rude to the general population of this forum. Honestly, while I again get where he is coming from and understand that it is not easy to see people taking shots at your work on the Internet, I have gotten to a stage where I am slowly be turned from an ardent Mike Portnoy supporter to someone who is so annoyed with him as a person that it is souring me on any projects he might happen to be involved with.
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It's hard to separate that though. I think he just puts himself out their too much personally and as we all know internet opinions are like assholes.......
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Oh, I know. But I just find myself steadily losing the ability to be able to give him the benefit of the doubt anymore. This forum has been unfairly under attack from him since day 1, and I am really just tired of it. I think if he had his way, this site would have been shut down years ago. I hate to draw unfair comparisons, but that starkly contrasts with every current member of the band who have gone out of their way time and again to express their thanks for running this place and creating overall positive exposure for the band.
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There needs to be an MP "Fan" Club. Not just one for fans, but also one for "fans".
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I've always felt the situation is a little two-fold. On one hand, Mike really does seem to think that every bit of honest criticism is "hating", or at least he comes off like that. We have no clue about exactly which reactions he is talking about, but he has also said that he takes things to heart too much, so by extension, he is also very likely to take honest criticism personally.
However, there is not a single community that's exempt from people who will criticize everything just because it's (in this case) Mike Portnoy doing it, even if their criticism is well-argumented. DTF also isn't exempt from it. And for people who know that Mike is often reading, and that he reacts as he does, we seem to phrase ourselves a little too harshly sometimes. In direct dialogue between two straight-talkin' individuals, it would all sound pretty good and proper and no offenses would be taken, but when someone like Mike (presumably is) reads it on the board, it can come off as "people on the internet ruining his day being out complaining" or whatever. We're not responsible for his reaction, but we shouldn't be surprised at it.
But yeah, just talking to bosk now, if a person runs a fan board for the passionate, internet-savvy, and large fanbase of your (now ex) band, and goes through a lot of difficulties, even forum splits, and manages to keep it all together, they deserve a little more than a casual thank you, let alone to be treated better than how you've said he's been treating you.
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I agree bosk1, and I will not defend him. Mike needs thicker skin for sure.
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Again, I was paraphrasing, so unless you saw the video, don't start saying he's grouping haters with conditional supporters in this situation. Also, he may have said things or acted a certain way to this forum previously, but this video today was not directed to DTF.
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Yeah, I'm just a little baffled at why we keep the cycle going. Realistically, what is the purpose of reasonable criticism, from media and from fans? It's to make artists see that, from our point of view, they've perhaps done some things wrong, and maybe improve them. Especially when you know the artist is reading what you're saying. If the said artist repeatedly fails to read honest criticism as such, why do we keep doing what we do? Just to vent?
Again, I was paraphrasing, so unless you saw the video, don't start saying he's grouping haters with conditional supporters in this situation. Also, he may have said things or acted a certain way to this forum previously, but this video today was not directed to DTF.
We were just talking in general, or at least most of us were. Maybe you shouldn't talk about these videos anymore, remember how you got Randy to come over and defend himself/RR? :lol even though that turned out to be great.
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I will purchase just about 95% of anything Mike is on no matter what but he does get buthurt easily and trolls going after him suck. Both need to take a break from reading the internet.
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Fair or not, I think he probably just sees DTF as dt.net part 2, and he saw the original dt.net as a forum that was too critical of him and the band. It's probably hard for him to separate the two.
It probably doesn't help either that many of his supporters are so all over his nutsack that it sort of validates the "anybody who disagrees with anything I do is a hater" mentality. You gotta figure that years of harsh criticism, no matter how well-deserved much of it was, have taken its toll on him and he simply dismisses the criticism he sees as haters hating. I get why he would feel that way, but you'd think he would have learned to tune it out by now, or at least not respond to it.
Interestingly, Geddy Lee once said that he is often more interested to hear what critics have to say than supporters, since he joked that supporters will often blindly support whatever you do or say, while critics will sometimes give honest critique that will give him something to think about in regards to his work. I thought that was an interesting take.
As for his work, I will never not buy whatever Neal Morse and Transatlantic release, and if Flying Colors keep up the good work, I'll keep buying their stuff, as well. I guess the irony there is, despite being one of his biggest critics in the DT forum land for the last 10+ years (which I have toned waaaaay down over the last 5+ years), I still support him financially more often than not. As always, good music rules the day. :coolio
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We were just talking in general, or at least most of us were. Maybe you shouldn't talk about these videos anymore, remember how you got Randy to come over and defend himself/RR? :lol even though that turned out to be great.
That was not me :\ I think that was Lucien if I remember correctly and it was because he went on Facebook and said something as though he was representing DTF, which is uncool and he apologized. How is this related?
buthurt
What part of happy rich guy with a blue beard flying around the world with one of his 6,348 bands saying "I'm not gonna let it bother me" do you not understand?
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You need to stop being the defender of all that is Mike Portnoy. He does get buthurt when it comes to the asshole internet fans. I still love the guy and his music but he needs to stay away from the internet and their trolls.
It's like a baseball player reading the sports section in the newspaper. nothing good comes out of it and yes, Mike gets "butthurt".
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He's obviously bothered by it, like he always is. Which in itself is fine, but the way he often deals with it is not.
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He's obviously bothered by it, like he always is. Which in itself is fine, but the way he often deals with it is not.
Well said. This is what I'm talking about.
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What part of happy rich guy with a blue beard flying around the world with one of his 6,348 bands saying "I'm not gonna let it bother me" do you not understand?
With all due respect, you are simply not being realistic if you think criticism does not bother Mike Portnoy.
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We were just talking in general, or at least most of us were. Maybe you shouldn't talk about these videos anymore, remember how you got Randy to come over and defend himself/RR? :lol even though that turned out to be great.
That was not me :\ I think that was Lucien if I remember correctly
I'm an idiot for mixing you two up :lol
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I get where Mike is coming from, and it sucks that a vocal minority love to dump on anything and everything he does. But by the same token, what is really frustrating about Mike is his propensity to constantly lump everyone who might not wholeheartedly love everything he does in with the "haters." This site, overally, has always been pretty supportive of him and his various projects. I personally have been pretty supporting. And yet he is always taking shots at us and at me just because there is not unanimous enthusiasm at all times. He was fairly rude to me when I met him a few years back, and he has fairly consistently been pretty rude to the general population of this forum. Honestly, while I again get where he is coming from and understand that it is not easy to see people taking shots at your work on the Internet, I have gotten to a stage where I am slowly be turned from an ardent Mike Portnoy supporter to someone who is so annoyed with him as a person that it is souring me on any projects he might happen to be involved with.
Well said, Bosk. I'm sure you wish it wasn't that way.
This may be a bad analogy but...
I can relate to MP in this respect. I am a nice person, but I have a tendency to be very opinionated at times and feel people should agree with me. Then when some don't I can be overbearing trying to defend myself. It's wanting everyone to like you, and even if most do you feel the need to go to war with the portion that may not. Then at that point even your supporters start to become your detractors and you begin to feel everyone is against you.
You can't be as omnipresent as he is on the internet and think its going to be that way. Mike gets his feelings hurt and can't remain quiet about it. He has to tell those on his side why he is disappointed with those who don't align with every move he makes.
That's not good for someone as visible as he is. There is a deeper root behind needing that attention. I don't know what his is, but I can relate because I suffer from the same affliction.
I have been on this board since 09 and fought many tiring battles against a few, and when you do that the rest find it ridiculous and then you wind up battling the masses.
As stupid as it may sound, I have learned lessons from how I interact on this board and changed the perception over time. Not for everyone here, but I think some people may see me in a bit of a different light.
Mike has to eventually come the realization that the world wide web is a vast wasteland of opinions, and if 70% of his supporters love his over saturation of himself he needs to embrace that and not worry about those who are going to be critical of him. Either that or stop being so public until you can learn to better deal with rejection.
As I said, I see myself in the way Mike acts at times and relate to it. Maybe the fact I find him so overbearing at times makes me want to chill more and care less about the fact not everyone is going to agree with everything you do.
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I get where Mike is coming from, and it sucks that a vocal minority love to dump on anything and everything he does. But by the same token, what is really frustrating about Mike is his propensity to constantly lump everyone who might not wholeheartedly love everything he does in with the "haters." This site, overally, has always been pretty supportive of him and his various projects. I personally have been pretty supporting. And yet he is always taking shots at us and at me just because there is not unanimous enthusiasm at all times. He was fairly rude to me when I met him a few years back, and he has fairly consistently been pretty rude to the general population of this forum. Honestly, while I again get where he is coming from and understand that it is not easy to see people taking shots at your work on the Internet, I have gotten to a stage where I am slowly be turned from an ardent Mike Portnoy supporter to someone who is so annoyed with him as a person that it is souring me on any projects he might happen to be involved with.
I'm sorry to hear that. Sounds very frustrating I'm sure.
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What part of happy rich guy with a blue beard flying around the world with one of his 6,348 bands saying "I'm not gonna let it bother me" do you not understand?
With all due respect, you are simply not being realistic if you think criticism does not bother Mike Portnoy.
Exactly - the fact that he (reportedly) acknowledges the criticism in the video and replies to negative comments makes it obvious that he's bothered by them.
MP is a very passionate person, which is a great thing in the sense that he always puts a lot of time and effort into what he's doing (like the setlists, official bootlegs, etc. with DT), but the downside is that he tends to take negative feedback personally and even overreact sometimes (like when he judged JLB based on an out-of-context Blabbermouth headline). As pointed out, he seems to think everyone who isn't 100% happy with something he has done is a "hater", and he's always trying to defend and explain all his actions. He has this "me vs. everyone else" attitude that's also evident in some of the comments he has made on DT since his exit. Hell, even numerous DT songs he penned are about people who upset him in some way: his stepfather, Kevin Moore, record label people, unhappy fans on the Internet...
Does MP get bashed and criticized unfairly sometimes? Of course, but so do 99% of public figures. You'd think that after so many years as a professional musician he would've grown a thicker skin, but apparently no. I'm sure MP is a nice guy in person and I get that he's outspoken and wants to communicate with his fans, but sometimes it would be better for him to shut his mouth (or keyboard) and just let it go. Responding to the negativity just feeds the flames and the best thing to do is to ignore it completely. Remaining silent would make him look less like a bitter man who desperately wants everyone to like him and agree with him.
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It's a shame that Mike takes criticism so badly, but that's hardly unique to him. What I think makes it worse for him is that he's so public with it. I have an immense amount of respect for the guy (as many people here know, I often find criticism to be unfair and end up defending him) but that's definitely something that does him no credit. I would say that a lot of people, maybe even most people, take criticism quite personally and don't deal with it all that well, but it's one thing to feel that way and another to tell the world about it.
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I've never understood being public with stuff that should be intimate.
I had an ex housemate who would update his FB status with every detail of his relationship no matter how private.
Not sure what's supposed to happen next ?
The best thing to do when you have "haters" as Mike puts it would be to do absolutely nothing. You can only give them more ammo by lashing out.
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In other words, MP should grow up.
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He reads way too much fan comments, and his blood boils up whenever he reads something that's negative.
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He should have the same attitude as the guys from Psycrence, and be happy he's being acknowledged at all.
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I should say, too, that social media has made things a lot worse when it comes to these kinds of things. A lot of people aren't afraid to spout hateful things about anything on twitter, for example, and it has reached a point where a lot of musicians and celebrities just chalk any criticism from social media up as people running their mouths and being morons on social media. Just think of the clowns who were calling that defenseman from Montreal all kinds of racial slurs after he beat the Bruins with an OT winner in the 2nd round of the NHL playoffs. You can always count of some to act like total douchebags on social media.
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There's always the minority that causes all the fuss. Better to ignore them. Then again, I'm not sure how I would act if I was famous and read all that stuff.
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I have an idea, let's all tell MP how he should act, react, and live his life! :lol
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I have an idea, let's all tell MP how he should act, react, and live his life! :lol
Go ahead and write right here! He'll read it by tomorrow!
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I have an idea, let's all tell MP how he should act, react, and live his life! :lol
Go ahead and write right here! He'll read it by tomorrow!
:lol
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:rollin
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I would suspect MP's name recognition is fading fast. I don't think it matters what he says in public because nobody cares, except maybe on his site and DT sites like this...
As far as his projects go, I really want to like them but I just don't. Adrenaline Mob was pretty bad, let's be honest... The Winery Dogs are OK, but nothing unique, the whole project feels very "been there, done that". Flying Colors is OK, but it will only ever be a part time thing. And Transatlantic is still good, but suffering since all the songwriters and their affiliated bands/projects are going through pretty patchy phases of just OK albums.
The project I really liked was the instrumental/cover thing he did with Sherinian, Sheenan, and the other guy. Why they didn't get a singer and do some original music, I'll never know. Huge missed opportunity, in my opinion.
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In other words, MP should grow up.
Come on now, there's no call for that.
-
MIKE PORTNOY
I KNOW YOU ARE READING THIS.
YOUR BEARD IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD !!
(https://50soffroad.net/web/foro_offroad/download/file.php?avatar=143_1391089707.png)
Basically MP just wants to be surrounded by sycophants.
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In other words, MP should grow up.
Come on now, there's no call for that.
There's nothing wrong with saying someone should grow up. If he doesn't like me saying it, he can tell me himself. That is what he does best.
-
MIKE PORTNOY
I KNOW YOU ARE READING THIS.
YOUR BEARD IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD !!
(https://50soffroad.net/web/foro_offroad/download/file.php?avatar=143_1391089707.png)
Basically MP just wants to be surrounded by psychosanes.
FTFY.
-Marc.
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This thread is why we can't have nice things.
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...and I was the "bash"er last week.. :yeahright :\
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:lol :corn
:sadpanda:
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In other words, MP should grow up.
Come on now, there's no call for that.
There's nothing wrong with saying someone should grow up. If he doesn't like me saying it, he can tell me himself. That is what he does best.
Actually, it's pretty rude and there's nothing remotely constructive about it. Please stop.
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I've said this once before- really I don't think anyone from Dream Theater goes to online forums for constructive criticism. The internet is a place for bashing, fan-girl-ing, trolling, and honest criticism/approval.. A forum ideally being the place for the latter- honest critique.
On a forum, the discussion should be-
"Mike Portnoy makes an child out of himself when he reacts to fans online this way"
"No, I think there was nothing wrong with what he said"
"Well I do because XYZ"
"Well I don't because XYZ"
NOT necessarily-
"Mike Portnoy is good at a lot of things and I respect him as a man and musician. When it comes to fan interaction, he's very good at being involved in discussion and keeping fans interested online, however I would suggest he responds to bashing with A rather than B"
"Well I think instead he should do C"
"I think MP should live like D because XYZ"
"No, I think either A or C is suitable for Portnoy"
It should be "That song sucks/rocks because..." and probably not "When John Petrucci writes a song he should..".
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Why would anybody want that? Then this place would be just like the idiotic comments section on YouTube.
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No, it would be the idiot youtube comments section except without the senseless, unconditional bashing and fan-girling, and where the arguments are honest and supported by points.
And either way it would be better than a group of thousands of A-holes making a list of ways that Mr. Rich and Happy Blue-Beard should live his life, or telling him how to write.
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This thread is a petri dish.
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If someone on this forum would make a thread about me and hate on me for whatever reason I would get pretty hurt.
I would do everything to defend myself but everything I say would get twisted and the hate keeps building.
I could ignore it obviously but whatever i'll do the thread is still there and it would be hard for me to not be reminded of it because in the end it's the only forum I visit reguarly and care about.
I feel the same could be said about artists emotionally connected to their life work.
The right thing is to ignore it and move on but we'll also know how something small on the internet can spread like cancer and blow up out of porportion. When that something is also your livelihood it can be emotional.
I'm just bringing my pov from his pov...ok that sounded confused. :lol
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This thread is a petri dish.
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This thread is a petri dish.
AND YOU'RE THE EYE DROPPER!!! >:(
Just kidding...just wanted to say that. :biggrin:
This thread is so entertaining you should have to pay $2.99 a month be able to post in it! :metal
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This thread is so entertaining you should have to pay $2.99 a month be able to post in it! :metal
:lol
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This thread is so entertaining you should have to pay $2.99 a month be able to post in it! :metal
:lol
INB4 MP charges people to post on his forum.
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I've said this once before- really I don't think anyone from Dream Theater goes to online forums for constructive criticism. The internet is a place for bashing, fan-girl-ing, trolling, and honest criticism/approval.. A forum ideally being the place for the latter- honest critique.
Frankly, what you or anyone thinks the Internet is about is completely irrelevant to what this forum is about. This forum is for a subset of "honest critique"--that subset of honest critique that is constructive and not bashing. People can be honest and be jerks about it. If that happens here, people are banned, plain and simple. Anyone who does not want to comply with that knows where the door is (or is shown the door if need be).
But this thread is not about your (or anyone else's) personal wish list about what the forum should be. It is about Mike Portnoy. Anyone who cannot post in this thread without breaking the rules will face consequences. That is not up for debate and is off topic. Now please get the discussion back ON topic.
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I've said this once before- really I don't think anyone from Dream Theater goes to online forums for constructive criticism. The internet is a place for bashing, fan-girl-ing, trolling, and honest criticism/approval.. A forum ideally being the place for the latter- honest critique.
Frankly, what you or anyone thinks the Internet is about is completely irrelevant to what this forum is about. This forum is for a subset of "honest critique"--that subset of honest critique that is constructive and not bashing. People can be honest and be jerks about it. If that happens here, people are banned, plain and simple. Anyone who does not want to comply with that knows where the door is (or is shown the door if need be).
But this thread is not about your (or anyone else's) personal wish list about what the forum should be. It is about Mike Portnoy. Anyone who cannot post in this thread without breaking the rules will pay $2.99 a month to me! OR face consequences. That is not up for debate and is off topic. Now please get the discussion back ON topic.
just kiddin... (https://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii324/jawkjaw/bolt1_zps81936df5.gif)
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:lol
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I always thought Mike should have an official "media person" as a middle man. So, instead of reading the online stuff himself, that media person would give a summary to MP. Like, "yeah, Adrenaline Mob has very mixed reviews, a lot of people think you're selling yourself under value....". That impersonalizes a lot of the criticism, which seems to be MP's biggest problem.
Regarding this forum, I would say it is *THE* forum for reading honest criticism of both MP and DT stuff. Blabbermouth and Youtube are just ":lolz Mike Porntoy neads to stop!!!", and mp.com essentially doesn't tolerate dissent.
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Unfortunately it wouldn't last as MP would just try to take over the job as the media person rendering the whole thing pointless.
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Holy hell man. Did the man fart on you? Dookie in your cereal?
You are just shitting all over the place. God damn. Take a break, get Portnoy off the brain. You'll get more wrinkles if you keep on like this.
It's time. It's time to say goodbye and quit letting this man ruin your life. HE'S DONE ENOUGH TO YOU! *flails arms and penis slaps random objects*
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Oh wow, another FB post addressing his detractors. When will you learn, MP...
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Holy hell man. Did the man fart on you? Dookie in your cereal?
You are just shitting all over the place. God damn. Take a break, get Portnoy off the brain. You'll get more wrinkles if you keep on like this.
It's time. It's time to say goodbye and quit letting this man ruin your life. HE'S DONE ENOUGH TO YOU! *flails arms and penis slaps random objects*
HE RAN OVER MY DOG ALRIGHT, CAN I GO NOW?!
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I hope he sees most of the money for it and not the technology company. If there's one guy who can make this worth it, it would be him.
Me? I'd rather pay $100 during an open house to his basement once a year for a guided tour of his music collection. He might see more of the money that way too.
You'd pay $100 to stare at different media formats?
Yup, provided they aren't on a computer or music server. I'm sure there's a story for practically every one.
Failing that, I'd certainly pay $20 for a compiled DVD of all of these at the end of a year or something.
Your mileage may vary.
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No I don't take that back, I respectfully think that's silly, and also that's NOT what the rules say.
"Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc."
THIS-
I always thought Mike should have an official "media person" as a middle man. So, instead of reading the online stuff himself, that media person would give a summary to MP. Like, "yeah, Adrenaline Mob has very mixed reviews, a lot of people think you're selling yourself under value....". That impersonalizes a lot of the criticism, which seems to be MP's biggest problem.
He should have the same attitude as the guys from Psycrence, and be happy he's being acknowledged at all.
He reads way too much fan comments, and his blood boils up whenever he reads something that's negative.
is belittling.
If you don't like that the thread is derailed, don't blame me for asking that people can both criticize and approve of the topic freely and with dignity without a obligation to be "constructive".
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You're way outta line soldier.
Soap 'im, boys.
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(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/funny-pictures-cat-has-noted-your-ridiculous-opinion-thumb-300x225-464_zpsaea8a4eb.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/funny-pictures-cat-has-noted-your-ridiculous-opinion-thumb-300x225-464_zpsaea8a4eb.jpg.html)
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You know what, okay screw it. I've said it, I've made my point. I'm gonna shut up about it now. Let the "discussion" continue and I'll deal with it because I freaking love this forum. Hope you all at least see what I'm saying.
About Portnoy, cool Tweet Secret today- some TWD acoustic footage with great 3-part harmony.
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We are picking on you because like the others who bash Mike to no end, you are unabashed in you defense of him. We are in the middle. I love him and his music to death, I just wish he'd pull back from commenting on all the idiots.
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No I don't take that back, I respectfully think that's silly, and also that's NOT what the rules say.
"Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc."
THIS-
I always thought Mike should have an official "media person" as a middle man. So, instead of reading the online stuff himself, that media person would give a summary to MP. Like, "yeah, Adrenaline Mob has very mixed reviews, a lot of people think you're selling yourself under value....". That impersonalizes a lot of the criticism, which seems to be MP's biggest problem.
He should have the same attitude as the guys from Psycrence, and be happy he's being acknowledged at all.
He reads way too much fan comments, and his blood boils up whenever he reads something that's negative.
is belittling.
If you don't like that the thread is derailed, don't blame me for asking that people can both criticize and approve of the topic freely and with dignity without a obligation to be "constructive".
How in the world is Rumby's statement belittling? He said it in possibly the most civil way possible. You may simply not agree with it (which is the main impulse trigger of someone labeling something as bashing/belittling/trolling without really taking in how it's being presented) but it's not really out of left field considering the way Portnoy has acted towards criticism over the years. Most people are just commenting because of how predictable it has become and would just like to see a successful grown man not suffer from a bad trait that many people have but have learned to control during the course of their lives.
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How was my comment belitting? He should also hang out with Nick Van Dyk who doesn't let criticism affect him. Is saying that belittling too?
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None of those quoted comments were belittling, and normally I would say it is baffling how anyone could think otherwise, but not when it comes to ardent Portnoy defenders. They are tenacious and loyal if nothing else. :lol :biggrin:
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I'd just like to say that I'm not a Portnoy hater.
But he is in the same box I keep Jon Schaffer.
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Am I the only member of the forum who holds the substance of what you're saying to be more important than the tone?
It's belittling to tell Mike Portnoy that he needs to censor information for himself or that he should live his life in a less proud manner, regardless of how you phrase it. And that's not because I disagree with it. And in fact, even though it's belittling, I would have NO problem with that being allowed on the forum. I'm only pointing out that according to the forum rules, it really isn't allowed because they do NOT say that criticism has to be constructive; they say that it must NOT be belittling (which I find most constructive criticism in a scenario like this to be).
And if you don't believe me- In fact, look back just a few posts at how I first contributed to this argument, and I was supporting someone I thoroughly disagreed with substantively.
That's because I would rather have a discussion with group of stable and proud people even with points that I disagree with, than have one with a load of wimps who are afraid to say what they mean because they'd rather patronize the person who is our subject matter.
I'm not even claiming to be the most eloquent speaker, but I will tell you for a fact that I am NOT disrespecting anyone, nor am I unconditionally loving anyone. Truth is, I've said very negative things about Mike Portnoy plenty of times on this forum, you're just choosing not to see it.
And yea
I'm gonna shut up about it now.
I changed my mind. Maybe this time.
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I'm not sure what your end point was...and I don't exactly get it...but...
(https://www.product-reviews.net/wp-content/userimages/2007/09/britney-spears-fan-defends.jpg)
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I'm not a mod, but I can quote one.
But this thread is not about your (or anyone else's) personal wish list about what the forum should be. It is about Mike Portnoy. Anyone who cannot post in this thread without breaking the rules will face consequences. That is not up for debate and is off topic. Now please get the discussion back ON topic.
On topic, it seems the secret tweeting thing is working out well for Mike, so good for him, I suppose.
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For sure. I figured enough fans would sign up to make it worth it for him, since, like I said earlier, his fans are nothing if not loyal. Say what you want about the guy, but he is a smart businessman.
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That he is. And a busy one too.
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No I don't take that back, I respectfully think that's silly, and also that's NOT what the rules say.
"Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc."
THIS-
I always thought Mike should have an official "media person" as a middle man. So, instead of reading the online stuff himself, that media person would give a summary to MP. Like, "yeah, Adrenaline Mob has very mixed reviews, a lot of people think you're selling yourself under value....". That impersonalizes a lot of the criticism, which seems to be MP's biggest problem.
He should have the same attitude as the guys from Psycrence, and be happy he's being acknowledged at all.
He reads way too much fan comments, and his blood boils up whenever he reads something that's negative.
is belittling.
If you don't like that the thread is derailed, don't blame me for asking that people can both criticize and approve of the topic freely and with dignity without a obligation to be "constructive".
None of those posts are belittling. Not sure what your endgame here is.
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I agree. Saying someone can't take criticism - no matter how helpful or constructive is hardly belittling...
Saying MP should probably step away from all his social media accounts for a while isn't an insult.
It's advice.
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(https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10402559_743818722350482_6660386037827278003_n.jpg)
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I feel belittled.
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Relevant :
https://instagram.com/p/oytqxjOTpR/?modal=true
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I feel belittled.
I feel embiggened.
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I think my comment can really only be considered belittling if you elevated Mike Portnoy to a level where you consider him above puny human faults and emotions.
Mike Portnoy is a very prolific and musically reasonably interesting individual. From a human perspective however I'd probably move to another spot at the bar pretty quickly if he sat next to me. Mind you, I think the same way about all DT members too. Except maybe MM, I think he has interesting things to say.
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I think my comment can really only be considered belittling if you elevated Mike Portnoy to a level where you consider him above puny human faults and emotions.
Mike Portnoy is a very prolific and musically reasonably interesting individual. From a human perspective however I'd probably move to another spot at the bar pretty quickly if he sat next to me. Mind you, I think the same way about all DT members too. Except maybe MM, I think he has interesting things to say.
I think James or Jordan might be fun to converse with in a bar, no?
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I think they're very nice and pleasant people. But, interesting, I have to say based on their lyrics they're not.
In general, most professional musicians are really rather shallow. They spend all their time honing their skills on the instrument, leaving little time (or interest) for books and other concepts. A friend of mine once considered becoming a professional musician. His music teacher gave him the advice "unless you have to be pried away from your instrument, don't become a professional."
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That reminds me of a story Alex Van Halen once told. When he and Eddie were teenagers, Alex left for a date early in the evening, while Eddie was sitting in his room practicing his guitar. Hours later, when Alex got home, Eddie was still sitting in that exact same spot playing his guitar. :lol :lol
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And that's why nobody has heard of Alex Van Halen ;D
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And that's why nobody has heard of Alex Van Halen ;D
Sure they have!
But largely because of Eddie Van Halen. ;D
(he's a great drummer too)
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In general, most professional musicians are really rather shallow. They spend all their time honing their skills on the instrument, leaving little time (or interest) for books and other concepts.
I kind of take issue with this statement. Where's the empirical evidence that backs up this claim? I find it to be nothing more than a blanket statement. There are plenty of professional musicians who are shallow and there are just as many who aren't. The same thing can be said about any given professional group. The mere fact that you have to practice for hours on end to be good enough to become a professional musician isn't something that necessarily cuts you off from the world and/or prevents you from developing other interests.
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My empirical evidence is a) having lived in a student dorm with a lot music students and b) having read a lot of lyrics and c) having been in enough bands to know the stereotypical "music is all I know" guy in a band.
Let's be honest, people like Neil Peart are a total anomaly. So much so that he gets the nickname "the professor".
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My empirical evidence is a) having lived in a student dorm with a lot music students and b) having read a lot of lyrics and c) having been in enough bands to know the stereotypical "music is all I know" guy in a band.
Let's be honest, people like Neil Peart are a total anomaly. So much so that he gets the nickname "the professor".
Neil is definitely a musical-scholar in this day and age. He fancies tourism, motorcycling, writing, and reading, all on top of drumming and always learning/improving himself, even after his first 20 years in Rush!
-Marc.
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Well, at one point Neil was close minded about learning anything new on drums. He professed in 1991 that he thought he learned all he could drumming. In 1995 he took lessons from Freddie Gruber learning swing and a traditional grip on the sticks. He later said you can never stop learning about something you love to do. I was wrong.
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Mike Portnoy is a very prolific and musically reasonably interesting individual. From a human perspective however I'd probably move to another spot at the bar pretty quickly if he sat next to me. Mind you, I think the same way about all DT members too. Except maybe MM, I think he has interesting things to say.
Now this is an interesting thing to ponder. My initial thought would be that their careers would make for interesting conversation, but you're right, in plenty of cases that wouldn't be enough to go very far. I suppose musicians are the same as any other segment of society. Some are interesting. Some are dull. Some are assholes. A person's shared interest in music can only go so far beyond that.
JM and JP both seem pretty one-tracked, from what I can tell, and I doubt it'd make for stimulating bar chat; I don't play bass or guitar, so what's left? JR, on the other hand, seems to have interests outside of music. A guy who has both traveled the world and known enough to actually appreciate the experience will always be worth talking to. JLB doesn't seem to be wholly fixated on singing or music, so he might be an interesting guy; not sure. As for MP, there are a few things I'd love to pick his brain about, but overall you're probably right that outside of music history he's probably pretty one dimensional.
And insofar as MP dealing with criticism, I think a point was made earlier and lost in the ruckus. It's not about being able to handle criticism in general, in as much as it's being able to distinguish criticism and bashing. The point that was made was that not every negative comment is hating, yet he continues to dismiss any comment he doesn't like as the pointless bitching of people who just want to complain. Unfair, unhelpful and just generally uncool.
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Apparently this thread has taken a turn...
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The funny thing is that this entire thread is entirely devoted to smack-talking MP through a computer screen about his TweetSecret program which in not mandatory for anyone, anywhere. Ever.
Whats the fucking point and why does anyone here CARE?
Seriously ladies, get over yourselves. It's not 2010 anymore.
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The funny thing is that this entire thread is entirely devoted to smack-talking MP through a computer screen about his TweetSecret program which in not mandatory for anyone, anywhere. Ever.
Whats the fucking point and why does anyone here CARE?
Seriously ladies, get over yourselves. It's not 2010 anymore.
:orly:
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The funny thing is that this entire thread is entirely devoted to smack-talking MP through a computer screen about his TweetSecret program which in not mandatory for anyone, anywhere. Ever.
Whats the fucking point and why does anyone here CARE?
Seriously ladies, get over yourselves. It's not 2010 anymore.
We've officially been shown how to be the bigger man.
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The funny thing is that this entire thread is entirely devoted to smack-talking MP through a computer screen about his TweetSecret program which in not mandatory for anyone, anywhere. Ever.
Whats the fucking point and why does anyone here CARE?
Seriously ladies, get over yourselves. It's not 2010 anymore.
First time in a Mike Portnoy thread? Welcome to every MP thread ever.
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Not the first time, so I have seen all the others.
Y'all are a bunch of gossip queens when it comes to Mike Portnoy though. Like, really, if you take a big step back and look at this topic again, does it really seem worth 230 shit-talking posts?
I don't know man, to me, it doesn't.
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Not the first time, so I have seen all the others.
Y'all are a bunch of gossip queens when it comes to Mike Portnoy though. Like, really, if you take a big step back and look at this topic again, does it really seem worth 230 shit-talking posts?
I don't know man, to me, it doesn't.
Yeah, seriously. I mean, it's not like this is the Adrenaline Mob thread or anything.
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Not the first time, so I have seen all the others.
Y'all are a bunch of gossip queens when it comes to Mike Portnoy though. Like, really, if you take a big step back and look at this topic again, does it really seem worth 230 shit-talking posts?
I don't know man, to me, it doesn't.
Yeah, seriously. I mean, it's not like this is the Adrenaline Mob thread or anything.
Now that's actually worth hating on :lol
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I think most would agree that Mike Portnoy is a controversial and/or polarizing figure, and people like that always get talked about a lot. That is why threads on him always have a lot of activity.
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YES, IT IS 2014. ALSO, THERE ARE BOTH MEN AND WOMEN IN THIS THREAD. PLUS, YOU CARED ENOUGH TO COMMENT.
NOTICE: LIFE IS NOT MANDATORY. NOTICE: POOPING IS MANDATORY.
THIS HAS BEEN A PUBLIC-DTF-ANNOUNCEMENT. PLEASE RETURN TO WORSHIPING OUR LORD AND SAVIOR, A DRUMMER OF PROG.
...I mean, that is quite the daft question...why does anyone CARE? Really? Like you're pondering the fucking mysteries of the universe. Who fuckin' knows? Why do you care whether anyone cares? Why does anyone care about anything? Where do the storks that bring the babies come from? Are there flying babies that bring storks to other stork mothers who are themselves brought by baby storks delivering the babies to mother storks and they get confused and raise the baby as a stork and inadvertently created THE VULTURE, SPIDERMANS GREATEST FOE!!! BUM DUM DUUUUUUUUUUUM!!!!!!!
But really, absolutely asinine... By that logic, what's deemed worthy to discuss? What's useless and not useless to discuss on a forum through a computer screen? Space ghost, coast to coast. Is it possible for all of us to get together EYE ARE EL and talk in person about Portnoy in a big-ass room? I'd like that.
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The "Things That Piss Me Off" thread has 2,539 replies as of now. I guess from that we can deduce that this is one angry forum, right? :lol
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FUCKIN' YEAH DOOOOOOD! :metal :metal :metal :yarr :yarr :police: :angel:
:lol
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YES, IT IS 2014. ALSO, THERE ARE BOTH MEN AND WOMEN IN THIS THREAD. PLUS, YOU CARED ENOUGH TO COMMENT.
NOTICE: LIFE IS NOT MANDATORY. NOTICE: POOPING IS MANDATORY.
THIS HAS BEEN A PUBLIC-DTF-ANNOUNCEMENT. PLEASE RETURN TO WORSHIPING OUR LORD AND SAVIOR, A DRUMMER OF PROG.
...I mean, that is quite the daft question...why does anyone CARE? Really? Like you're pondering the fucking mysteries of the universe. Who fuckin' knows? Why do you care whether anyone cares? Why does anyone care about anything? Where do the storks that bring the babies come from? Are there flying babies that bring storks to other stork mothers who are themselves brought by baby storks delivering the babies to mother storks and they get confused and raise the baby as a stork and inadvertently created THE VULTURE, SPIDERMANS GREATEST FOE!!! BUM DUM DUUUUUUUUUUUM!!!!!!!
But really, absolutely asinine... By that logic, what's deemed worthy to discuss? What's useless and not useless to discuss on a forum through a computer screen? Space ghost, coast to coast. Is it possible for all of us to get together EYE ARE EL and talk in person about Portnoy in a big-ass room? I'd like that.
sure, lets just miss the point entirely.
My main question is why everyone is still so obsessed with commenting on everything Mike Portnoy says and does. He's kind of irrelevant at this point, no? So why do these "Hey, look what stupid thing Mike Portnoy just said/is doing now!!" threads continue to pop up pretty much on a monthly basis? If youre so disgusted or unimpressed with everything MP does, then why even give it the time of day? Unless we all just genuinely enjoy bitching and shit-talking other people THAT damn much.
It's just a little childish. Of course, judging by the nature of your post, some of us might already have a bit of a maturity issue here.
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>It's childish to discuss the former drummer of a band that many of us considered our (near) favorite at one time or another.
>It's not childish to gripe about posts made by people you don't know on an internet forum.
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OH YOU WANNA PLAY IT LIKE DAT HUH!1? I'm mainly drunk.
I do think it's a bit odd that you'd post in the first place about caring about talking about him. Then continue to do so... You state that it's obsessive to continue to discuss him and previously alluded that it's...I'm not sure what you were alluding to, that it's either lowly, crazy, stupid, etc. to "...smack talk MP through a computer-screen", and right after bash Adrenaline Mob, a coveted project of MP, and then just now bashed him again by calling him irrelevant? I mean really, what are you actually arguing when you're contradicting yourself every turn? You gave it the time of day just now. You have literally done everything you've argued against. This is coming from a drunk guy. I'm okay with my immaturity, you apparently think yourself above all these things (that you are taking part of). Not to be demeaning but...holy fuck...WHAT AN ARGUMENT YOU'VE MADE. :rollin
Whichever way you cut it, you're contributing to what you're arguing against so :lol :corn Keep on keeping on, kingly king of all things kingly. Don't let that horse get too high or you'll need a space suit. :tup :tup Either that or you're honestly questioning why people care...which is possibly the most asinine thing of all. I go back to my flying-baby-stork-carrying argument. :yarr
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right, okay.
I cant really break it down any further than I already have. Sober up, get some sleep, pull your head out of your ass, I dont know. Or maybe just go back and read what I said a few more times until it clicks with you like it's supposed to. I didnt mean to talk in riddles and confuse you guys or anything.
>It's childish to discuss the former drummer of a band that many of us considered our (near) favorite at one time or another.
>It's not childish to gripe about posts made by people you don't know on an internet forum.
Funny how you're discussing, but only I'm griping. Yeah. You realize it goes both ways right? Everyone's griping? See? No?
I tried.
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Hmm...I cede to the fact that I may very well be too drunk... Either way, I mean no hostility even though it may come across that way.
As Dwight Schrute once said. "While today it is me....we all shall fall". :P :police: :metal I dunno. :huh: :heart
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right, okay.
I cant really break it down any further than I already have. Sober up, get some sleep, pull your head out of your ass, I dont know. Or maybe just go back and read what I said a few more times until it clicks with you like it's supposed to. I didnt mean to talk in riddles and confuse you guys or anything.
>It's childish to discuss the former drummer of a band that many of us considered our (near) favorite at one time or another.
>It's not childish to gripe about posts made by people you don't know on an internet forum.
Funny how you're discussing, but only I'm griping. Yeah. You realize it goes both ways right? Everyone's griping? See? No?
I tried.
Well yeah. You're griping about these threads existing but not all of the critical posts are griping. Many people legitimately questioned the basis of it without any degree of immaturity.
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^ that too... even the original post isn't neary as demeaning to MP as your post is. It's pretty matter-of-fact.
or I'm just being an asshole. I still can't tell.
/wine
But...in the end...this is all good for MP, when you get down to it. No such thing as bad publicity. HE'S STILL WINNING AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! WE'RE ALL PSYCHOSANE.
QUICK EVERYONE QUIET, ARIICH IS HERE! *wishes it was a chat room and/or that the DTF chat was as active as it used to be /nostalgiaaaaaaaaaaaaa*
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My main question is why everyone is still so obsessed with commenting on everything Mike Portnoy says and does. He's kind of irrelevant at this point, no?
If that is your viewpoint, then obviously this is not the thread for you.
You thinking that he is irrelevant doesn't make him actually irrelevant.
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We like discussing Mike Portnoy because he's by far the most illustrious of the bunch. If the rest of DT was a bit more colorful, I'm pretty sure we'd be discussing them much more instead. Fact of the matter is, "we're a big happy family with wives and kids at home" is not very exciting.
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When JP mauled that family at Yellowstone and ate their picnic basket, I thought we all had some riveting discourse about it.
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Yeah JP gets a pass because everyone survived.
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bitchin' about bitchin' (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55966936/pics/icon_rolleyes.gif)
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(https://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/SquiddyBoy/louisck.gif)
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Sidenote: One of the best facepalm gifs :lol
Alright, plz continue...
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The man's thoughts on new Pink Floyd...
What's this about a new "Pink Floyd" album? Last I checked, Waters is no longer in the band and Wright & Barrett are dead...if these are leftovers from The Division Bell sessions, then just put em on a TDB Special Edition release! It's disrespectful to Roger & everything he built for all those years! Just do a solo album Dave...
-Marc.
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I will never fathom how someone can type that kind of stuff, look at it and think "Well, that is going to end well!" and hit the send button. Just don't talk like that about other bands...Geez.
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That stance is too absurd to even address.
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:facepalm:
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... Yeah, I tend to defend MP, but I cringed upon reading that right along with the rest of you.
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I guess the spectrum of flying colors does not include pink.
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This being the case, I wonder (with some caution) what Mike thinks of the new Yes album, being the band's 2nd since Jon Anderson departed. Granted, the other four members are all Yes alum, and have been on at least two albums as Yesmen, so their status as Yes shouldn't be debated, but would Mike hold the same idea about a Waters-less Pink Floyd to an Sans-Anderson Yes?
I don't recall what MP said about Fly From Here, so I'm curious as to what he has to say about the latest from the ever-revolving Yes.
-Marc.
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I would laugh so hard if it turned out that Gilmour and Mason had got Waters in to help work on some of the tracks while finishing them off.
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Hmm...Lots of bickering over my Pink Floyd comments! OK, I'll meet the Gilmour fans half-way and say IMO, the "real" Pink Floyd is BOTH Gilmour/Waters TOGETHER....Piper was a Syd album, The Final Cut was a Waters album and AMLOR/TDB are Gilmour albums...the "magic" was Waters/Gilmour TOGETHER
He walked it back... a bit.
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I partially agree with him - I don't see why anyone is getting excited about unreleased material and calling it a brand new album, especially a brand new album under the name of Pink Floyd seeing how only Gilmour and Mason are left there. Especially since The Division Bell is the epitome of a "farewell album".
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Seriously guys, the three threads where people whine about Mike Portnoy are the most active here. Mike is pretty lol but c'mon, I think some of you guys just need to move on.
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Personally I don't even follow Mike on twitter anymore because I just don't care. I follow TA and Flying Colors, basically I get any news of his I'm actually interested in that way.
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The only posts that annoy me in this thread are the self-righteous "LOL Y U STILL TALK ABT DIS?" posts. ::)
If people want to talk about Mike, they will, whether you think they should or like it or not. Get over it, and yourself, and leave them alone. No one makes you read this thread if you really aren't interested anymore.
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I'm with Bolsters. If we're following the forum rules, what business is it of anyone what we post about?
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I would laugh so hard if it turned out that Gilmour and Mason had got Waters in to help work on some of the tracks while finishing them off.
I'd love to see MP's reaction to that :lol
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Hmm...Lots of bickering over my Pink Floyd comments! OK, I'll meet the Gilmour fans half-way and say IMO, the "real" Pink Floyd is BOTH Gilmour/Waters TOGETHER....Piper was a Syd album, The Final Cut was a Waters album and AMLOR/TDB are Gilmour albums...the "magic" was Waters/Gilmour TOGETHER
He walked it back... a bit.
One step forward for sure, but then the obligatory two steps back when he retweeted this:
Very much like "real" Dream Theater is Portnoy/Petrucci.
:lol
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Seriously guys, the three threads where people whine about Mike Portnoy are the most active here. Mike is pretty lol but c'mon, I think some of you guys just need to move on.
The day this forum starts to move on is the day WDADU moves to the top of my DT rankings.
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Hmm...Lots of bickering over my Pink Floyd comments! OK, I'll meet the Gilmour fans half-way and say IMO, the "real" Pink Floyd is BOTH Gilmour/Waters TOGETHER....Piper was a Syd album, The Final Cut was a Waters album and AMLOR/TDB are Gilmour albums...the "magic" was Waters/Gilmour TOGETHER
He walked it back... a bit.
One step forward for sure, but then the obligatory two steps back when he retweeted this:
Very much like "real" Dream Theater is Portnoy/Petrucci.
:lol
:dangerwillrobinson:
I don't have Twitter (and I don't hold this opinion anyway), but I'd pay good money (rhetorically :P) for someone to tweet "Petrucci/Portnoy/MOORE" instead and watch the reaction :angel:
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lol
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I did my part by referring to the real DT as Collins/Moore and even got an actual MP like.
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"I live with serenity now, not self-righteous hate."
Yeaaaah, right.
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Very much like "real" Dream Theater is Portnoy/Petrucci.
I saw him retweet this and I felt it appropriate to say excluding Myung from that equation is a slap in the face.
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I did my part by referring to the real DT as Collins/Moore and even got an actual MP like.
Of course he liked it - you've denigrated Moore by lumping him in with an irrelevant footnote :-\
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Very much like "real" Dream Theater is Portnoy/Petrucci.
I saw him retweet this and I felt it appropriate to say excluding Myung from that equation is a slap in the face.
Indeed, but I'm not in the least bit surprised.
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I did my part by referring to the real DT as Collins/Moore and even got an actual MP like.
Awesome. :lol
Hmm...Lots of bickering over my Pink Floyd comments! OK, I'll meet the Gilmour fans half-way and say IMO, the "real" Pink Floyd is BOTH Gilmour/Waters TOGETHER....Piper was a Syd album, The Final Cut was a Waters album and AMLOR/TDB are Gilmour albums...the "magic" was Waters/Gilmour TOGETHER
He walked it back... a bit.
Well, not really as he's still missing the point that Pink Floyd carried on after Waters left, and already released two successful albums and absolutely monstrous world tours. So this has absolutely nothing to do with Waters, and nor would anyone expect it to.
As for Wright, this includes material that Wright contributed, so I don't see a problem there. After the Rev died, Avenged Sevenfold released an album including his contributions, and Mike Portnoy himself played the drums for it!
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"Kindness - it's not that hard."
:rollin :rollin
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Very much like "real" Dream Theater is Portnoy/Petrucci.
I saw him retweet this and I felt it appropriate to say excluding Myung from that equation is a slap in the face.
It's the classic "self-elevation by associating yourself with an undisputed leader". MP knows (at least by now) that JP is considered the "titan" of DT. So, of course he constructs the circle of "true DT" by including just himself and the titan.
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Very much like "real" Dream Theater is Portnoy/Petrucci.
I saw him retweet this and I felt it appropriate to say excluding Myung from that equation is a slap in the face.
It's the classic "self-elevation by associating yourself with an undisputed leader". MP knows (at least by now) that JP is considered the "titan" of DT. So, of course he constructs the circle of "true DT" by including just himself and the titan.
He didn't even write it, he retweeted it, so that's a perfectly good waste of an over-analysis.
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He didn't even write it, he retweeted it, so that's a perfectly good waste of an over-analysis.
He could have corrected the original 'tweeter' to include Myung. I thought by retweeting it without the correction was pretty sad. I like MP and his work.. but lets give credit where it's due.
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Blob, I don't know if you're on twitter or not, but retweeting something is basically saying, "I agree with this so much that I am gonna retweet so all of my followers see it, too."
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Yeah, while liking on FB is more vague, retweeting means "this is exactly how I see it".
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Yeah, a FB like is more ambiguous, since people will often "like" a status so they get notifications to see how the rest of a conversation on a particular status goes. There is little ambiguity with a retweet.
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Blob, I don't know if you're on twitter or not, but retweeting something is basically saying, "I agree with this so much that I am gonna retweet so all of my followers see it, too."
I know what retweeting is (come on, really?), and I'm not justifying it, I'm just saying that rumby is wildly over-analyzing the thought behind something MP didn't even write. He saw it, liked it, and shared it.
Unless we're far gone enough to believe MP went through every tweet and there was every single combination of DT members to that effect through various tweets and specifically chose that one over all the rest because he only wanted to include JP and himself because it made him look better, or whatever ridiculous idea it was.
Bunch of couch psychologists, we are.
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MP knows exactly he's prodding the hornet's nest with that retweet, after all this was in response to yet another semi-controversial comment of his.
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MP knows exactly he's prodding the hornet's nest with that retweet, after all this was in response to yet another semi-controversial comment of his.
Pretty much this. If he doesn't someone associated with him needs to take his social media accounts away. Mind you I think that someone probably SHOULD tell him to get off Twitter, even perfectly innocent comments can backfire and none of the tweets and retweets around this are perfectly innocent.
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Portnoy and Petrucci were always seen as the most "identifying" members of the band. Nothing more, nothing less.
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I have no problem with his opinion on Floyd because there are large numbers of people that feel the same in both directions but it did seem like cleverly masked baiting. It's unfortunate that this is the way it has to be as far as his reactions, although his response seemed a little prepared since he knew there was going to be people jumping on him. I don't know why he couldn't have just left it at his original comment.
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I think Mike is a passionate person who is passionate about music and leaps before he thinks when talking or posting and always has to back peddle to explain himself.
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Did not want to start a new thread for this, but I was just pondering: While DT will likely have pretty smooth sailing for the rest of their career, to the point where they will likely be able to call it a day without any (financial) headache, what do you guys think about MP's career? He's keeping busy for sure since the split, but do you think he can maintain the momentum? I saw the other day that Richie Kotzen released a new solo album and will be touring for it, and Flying Colors will only do a very short tour.
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He'll just find something else to latch on to.
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I'd like to see him find a permanent "musical" home, instead of jumping from one thing to another all the time - starting all these projects. But he's just not that kind of person though.
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Constantly jumping from one project to another he might catch a MTD (Musically Transmitted Disease) sooner or later. :biggrin:
Greetings...
Nef
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I'd like to see him find a permanent "musical" home, instead of jumping from one thing to another all the time - starting all these projects. But he's just not that kind of person though.
Well he was with DT for 25 years....
I think he'd be happy to have a stable musical home at this point, while keeping up with his other bands on the side, but most of his projects since leaving DT have been side projects for the other musicians, so I don't think any of them could be a "main" project like he'd hoped.
I think his best bet is to join an established band that needs a drummer, but it's a matter of who actually needs one.
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I'd like to see him find a permanent "musical" home, instead of jumping from one thing to another all the time - starting all these projects. But he's just not that kind of person though.
I agree with this. I really like his drumming in DT, but I haven't had any interest in his projects since then. Apart from his drumming with Avenged Sevenfold, I haven't cared enough to check any of them out.
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Over the course of the last year, the Winery Dogs have played 100 shows. That's a lot, so as long as Richie and Billy stay interested, that is probably as close to a "permanent" gig as he will have, barring something unforeseen happening.
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I'd like to see him find a permanent "musical" home, instead of jumping from one thing to another all the time - starting all these projects. But he's just not that kind of person though.
Well he was with DT for 25 years....
I think he'd be happy to have a stable musical home at this point, while keeping up with his other bands on the side, but most of his projects since leaving DT have been side projects for the other musicians, so I don't think any of them could be a "main" project like he'd hoped.
I think his best bet is to join an established band that needs a drummer, but it's a matter of who actually needs one.
I wonder if he'd play in SlipKnot if they asked him. He might have to practice his Blast Beats though.
He has a similar style to Jordison I think.
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I'd like to see him find a permanent "musical" home, instead of jumping from one thing to another all the time - starting all these projects. But he's just not that kind of person though.
Well he was with DT for 25 years....
I think he'd be happy to have a stable musical home at this point, while keeping up with his other bands on the side, but most of his projects since leaving DT have been side projects for the other musicians, so I don't think any of them could be a "main" project like he'd hoped.
I think his best bet is to join an established band that needs a drummer, but it's a matter of who actually needs one.
I wonder if he'd play in SlipKnot if they asked him. He might have to practice his Blast Beats though.
He has a similar style to Jordison I think.
I wonder what kind of mask he would wear. :lol
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It would be a mask of his own face.
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It would be a mask of his own face.
How bout a mask of Mangini's face? :biggrin:
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Over the course of the last year, the Winery Dogs have played 100 shows. That's a lot, so as long as Richie and Billy stay interested, that is probably as close to a "permanent" gig as he will have, barring something unforeseen happening.
Billy I could see wanting to continue this, but Ritchie is the one who I always thought would (and now did) return to his solo stuff.
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I could be wrong, but I was never under the impression that Ritchie's solo stuff was ever really going anywhere. Billy seems to have the most opportunities of the three because he is in demand.
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This is really just based on a gut feeling, but Ritchie has been doing his own thing that "isn't going anywhere" (I agree with the assessment) for such a long time, he strikes me as the kind of musician who, if only 50 people show up to his gigs, that's fine too, as long as he's doing "his" music. Like, the guy has put out 19 (nineteen) solo albums.
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Well...yeah, I guess I can't really disagree with that. :lol
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It seems like Mike is in a pretty good groove with his professional life. As Hef noted, the Dogs have been quite busy the last year or so, and when they aren't on the road he can do Flying Colors/TA/MSPS etc.
I don't see him doing another big gig like Avenged or Slipknot, unless he is just brought in to record in the studio.
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If Mike ever wanted something more stable and wanted to go back to his prog metal roots, he can just pull a DT and do some mass interviews for a guitarist, keyboard player, singer and bassist and start a permanent progressive metal band. He doesn't have to keep missing DT, he can just make another. There's a ton of insanely talented people out there that I'm sure would go for it if he put the effort into it. I bet a lot of these big named solo artists might even consider MPs proposition. He was able to pull the Winery Dogs together fairly easily, I'm sure he would be able to do the same with a prog metal band if he wanted to, too.
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Billy seems to have the most opportunities of the three because he is in demand.
Yep. ALWAYS will be. New Mr. Big album this fall.
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There's a ton of insanely talented people out there that I'm sure would go for it if he put the effort into it. I bet a lot of these big named solo artists might even consider MPs proposition. He was able to pull the Winery Dogs together fairly easily, I'm sure he would be able to do the same with a prog metal band if he wanted to, too.
I'm not sure about these ease of pulling a fresh prog metal band together. Would a young (i.e. in their 20s) band want MP in their band? Hardly, there's just too much age difference. A7X "used" MP for one tour to keep the momentum up, but they never had any intention of making him a full member. So, MP would have to fish in the pool of people his age, but that's essentially what he's been doing already.
I think to a good degree the type of future projects he will do depends on the phone numbers he has. For example, he had contact to Richie Kotzen, but clearly he wouldn't form a prog metal band with Richie.
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Over the course of the last year, the Winery Dogs have played 100 shows. That's a lot, so as long as Richie and Billy stay interested, that is probably as close to a "permanent" gig as he will have, barring something unforeseen happening.
Billy I could see wanting to continue this, but Ritchie is the one who I always thought would (and now did) return to his solo stuff.
From the beginning I always figured this a five year run, but really you just ride the wave and go with it. Could last longer if there are no concerns about quotas and happy accountants.
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Constantly jumping from one project to another he might catch a MTD (Musically Transmitted Disease) sooner or later. :biggrin:
Greetings...
Nef
Or he might hook up with the right 3 guys, crank out the next High Enough, sell 2 million units and retire rich and famous. Stranger stuff's been known to happen.
Howdy. . .
El
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Constantly jumping from one project to another he might catch a MTD (Musically Transmitted Disease) sooner or later. :biggrin:
Greetings...
Nef
Or he might hook up with the right 3 guys, crank out the next High Enough, sell 2 million units and retire rich and famous. Stranger stuff's been known to happen.
Howdy. . .
El
DY :metal :metal their second album is even better btw if you haven't heard it. Although I find it funny you made that example instead of say, When I See You Smile by Bad English.
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Billy seems to have the most opportunities of the three because he is in demand.
Yep. ALWAYS will be. New Mr. Big album this fall.
And with Pat Torpey contracting Parkinson's, maybe that could be Mike's new 'home'? Maybe Mr. Big could evolve into something really big, go in a progressive direction?
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Mike Portnoy in Mr. Big - the irony !
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Dare I say Mike could get, "Addited To That Rush"?
Kotowboy, I own you! :lol
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Dare I say Mike could get, "Addited To That Rush"?
Kotowboy, I own you! :lol
The joke's on you. I am not a Mr. Big fan. I am not familiar with their oeuvre :cool:
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Then my joke knowledge is supreme!
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For reals. Isn't Billy Sheehan and Paul Gilbert in Mr. Big ?
That's my entire knowledge of the band.
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Yes sir. And here is the song I quoted,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFpsMiMi3Rw
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Wouldn't surprise me at all if MP jumps in for the tour. He's almost an honorary Mr. Big band member at this point, working with Kotzen and Sheehan, and having done stuff with Gilbert.
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Yes sir. And here is the song I quoted,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFpsMiMi3Rw
Ah the Eighties when having a bright pink bass was just fine.
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Yup! :lol
I never did! :biggrin:
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My guitar history is : Bright Red Strat ( natch ). White Jackson Superstrat. Sunburst Epiphone Sheraton.
Natural Les Paul Copy. Natural Tele Copy. Silverburst Epiphone Les Paul.
Desert Burst Gibson Les Paul. Chocolate finish Gibson SG.
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Yes sir. And here is the song I quoted,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFpsMiMi3Rw
Ah the Eighties when having a bright pink bass was just fine.
It's still just fine. I want one! :lol :metal
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Round off all the edges and call it THE BLOB.
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I just realized something. Maybe the reason A7X didn't want MP as a full member of the band was because they wanted to do something different with the drums. Obvously the drumming on Hail To The King is more simple then past albums and anything MP has done. (havnt heard Winery Dogs). MP might not have been a good choice for them at that point because they wanted something simpler.
Also, they likely didn't want A7X to be known as the now new Portnoy band.
....yea, just something that crossed my mind earlier.
I hope MP creates a new METAL band. That's where he belongs. Something like DT in THEORY, but very different from DT. You know what i mean.....
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MP did one of his Q&A sessions on twitter yesterday, and he said the thing he misses most right now is being in a "full-on metal band".
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And here is the Q&A:
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2899041&mpage=1#2899041
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I just realized something. Maybe the reason A7X didn't want MP as a full member of the band was because they wanted to do something different with the drums.
A7X have said they wanted someone who was relatively unknown.
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It's been too long since the last time I read through such a great Q&A. So many interesting questions and a lot of insightful yet concise answers.
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That was cool.
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SO new FC and TWD albums confirmed.
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“@jurejerebic: @mikeportnoy How do you not burn out?” SURROUND MYSELF W GREAT & INSPIRING MUSIC/MUSICIANS
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Come on Blabbermouth, don't let me down!
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That would be a new low for them, but I could actually see it happen. :lol
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Carnival Of Souls? Really?
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Yea thought that was strange. Revenge is so much better, I figured Portnoy would feel the same way..that album has balls. I agree with MP though, the no makeup era brought a lot of neat songs but those albums are drenched with filler.
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Yea thought that was strange. Revenge is so much better, I figured Portnoy would feel the same way..that album has balls. I agree with MP though, the no makeup era brought a lot of neat songs but those albums are drenched with filler.
Revenge is the best. Good call Mosh.
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“@jurejerebic: @mikeportnoy How do you not burn out?” SURROUND MYSELF W GREAT & INSPIRING MUSIC/MUSICIANS
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Come on Blabbermouth, don't let me down!
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I can see the headline: "Mike Portnoy depends on other musicians for inspiration, without them will burn out"
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Yea thought that was strange. Revenge is so much better, I figured Portnoy would feel the same way..that album has balls. I agree with MP though, the no makeup era brought a lot of neat songs but those albums are drenched with filler.
Revenge is the best. Good call Mosh.
It's my favorite Kiss album for sure! :tup
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“@jurejerebic: @mikeportnoy How do you not burn out?” SURROUND MYSELF W GREAT & INSPIRING MUSIC/MUSICIANS
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Come on Blabbermouth, don't let me down!
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I can see the headline: "Mike Portnoy depends on other musicians for inspiration, without them will burn out"
PORTNY : I AM BURNED OUT. I BEG MUSICIANS TO BE IN THEIR BAND FOR CASH.
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“@jurejerebic: @mikeportnoy How do you not burn out?” SURROUND MYSELF W GREAT & INSPIRING MUSIC/MUSICIANS
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Come on Blabbermouth, don't let me down!
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I can see the headline: "Mike Portnoy depends on other musicians for inspiration, without them will burn out"
Portnoy slags former band--blames Dream Theater members for burnout.
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OK, I have a serious MP question.
I see he played on the new Big Elf album. Is this any good? I'm someone who has really struggled to find an post DT MP related project that I have liked.
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Funny, I just did exactly the same thing. I figured I'd give Into the Maelstrom a listen, since the only time I had heard Bigelf was when I saw them as part of ProgNation in Boston. Didn't really like it back then, but I figured I'd give them a second shot.
No dice for me. Two and a half songs in I was thoroughly annoyed by the lyrics and the music.
If I had to classify Bigelf, I would say they are a Flower Kings (but not as good) that raided their fathers' Beatles collection.
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Funny, I just did exactly the same thing. I figured I'd give Into the Maelstrom a listen, since the only time I had heard Bigelf was when I saw them as part of ProgNation in Boston. Didn't really like it back then, but I figured I'd give them a second shot.
No dice for me. Two and a half songs in I was thoroughly annoyed by the lyrics and the music.
If I had to classify Bigelf, I would say they are a Flower Kings (but not as good) that raided their fathers' Beatles collection.
Yikes, and I don't care for TFK or the Beatles! Oh well..
This is what I dreaded when MP left DT. It's coming true.
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If I had to classify Bigelf, I would say they are a Flower Kings (but not as good) that raided their fathers' Beatles collection.
Well, TAC was thrown off, but this might actually be a thing for me. Which album is a good starting point?
EDIT: I laughed at one of the songs from their newest album being called Theater of dreams. :lol
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Just tried to listen to that track. God it is HORRIBLE...
C'MON MP. PLEASE!!
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You know, at this point I have to say, given how nothing except FC has interested me of his post-DT output, MP is quickly droppin from the "artist to follow what they're up to" list.
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You know, at this point I have to say, given how nothing except FC has interested me of his post-DT output, MP is quickly droppin from the "artist to follow what they're up to" list.
I knew it was going to happen. I said it the day he left.
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I always just assumed that once he had stretched his legs with A7X, Amob and FC, he would at some point try to stand up an awesome prog (metal) outfit again. Then came TWD, and then Bigelf. He said he has no current plans for anything new, which for me means that outside of FC, I don't need to pay attention to what he's up to, at least not in the near future.
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This is the problem with Mike right now. He's a gun for hire instead of finding a new home. He's a fill in and has rotating projects all the time. I think it was the main reason he was burned out from DT, too many damn projects. Mike is a guy that doesn't want down time in his life at all. Sometimes you need to pull back a little but he pulled back from the one thing that should have mattered the most instead of all the other things in his life.
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Funny, I just did exactly the same thing. I figured I'd give Into the Maelstrom a listen, since the only time I had heard Bigelf was when I saw them as part of ProgNation in Boston. Didn't really like it back then, but I figured I'd give them a second shot.
No dice for me. Two and a half songs in I was thoroughly annoyed by the lyrics and the music.
If I had to classify Bigelf, I would say they are a Flower Kings (but not as good) that raided their fathers' Beatles collection.
Yikes, and I don't care for TFK or the Beatles! Oh well..
This is what I dreaded when MP left DT. It's coming true.
That's an odd comparison - Bigelf sound absolutely nothing like TFK in any way.
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The Winery Dogs are getting a nice response from what I'm hearing. Lots of people around me who aren't necessarily into DT are raving about them.
I'm still waiting for MP to start up something that's just as awesome as DT.
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I'm still waiting for MP to start up something that's just as awesome as DT.
As awesome as DT with MP or without?
If the latter, I think he's doing better with TWD than the last two DT albums.
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I'm still waiting for MP to start up something that's just as awesome as DT.
Good luck with that. :lol :biggrin:
The Winery Dogs are getting a nice response from what I'm hearing. Lots of people around me who aren't necessarily into DT are raving about them.
The Winery Dogs are sort of like King's X for me: solid hard rock that I never have any urge to listen to.
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You know, at this point I have to say, given how nothing except FC has interested me of his post-DT output, MP is quickly droppin from the "artist to follow what they're up to" list.
I knew it was going to happen. I said it the day he left.
Yeah, I sure as hell didn't. As soon as he split I was stoked. I expected better music from both camps. Alas, they've both disappointed me terribly. The only song that really interested me on the last DT album was essentially a lost Rush song from Signals, and MP's recent projects (at least the few that were worth even checking out) seem to be good for one really good song per album.
Honestly, barring a change of heart from Petrucci, I'd just as soon see a fulltime TA. Neither of which are gong to happen. Guess we can always hope for a new prog/metal thing from him, but that seems like something he's intentionally avoiding.
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Guess we can always hope for a new prog/metal thing from him, but that seems like something he's intentionally avoiding.
That's an interesting thought, and a dynamic that I've also thought of.
He probably thinks that it'll invariably be compared to DT, and it surely will. At some point, you'd have to think that MP would come back to what I is that has made him, and that would be progressive hard rock. I highly doubt he's outgrown it.
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You know, in all those interviews and Q&As, you would think somebody would have raised this question with him.
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Guess we can always hope for a new prog/metal thing from him, but that seems like something he's intentionally avoiding.
Either this, or he's just completely burnt out on that genre. Wasn't that something that was both suspected by fans who were critical of late-Portnoy-era-DT as well as a factor that ultimately contributed to his departure?
-J
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Guess we can always hope for a new prog/metal thing from him, but that seems like something he's intentionally avoiding.
Either this, or he's just completely burnt out on that genre. Wasn't that something that was both suspected by fans who were critical of late-Portnoy-era-DT as well as a factor that ultimately contributed to his departure?
-J
Yeah, maybe, but he's not even doing anything remotely close to that.
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Well, he just stated that he really missed being in a real metal band. Seems like AM was just his real metal band, but I might interpret it that he misses something along the lines of DT.
And for the record, while comparisons are definitely going to be made, IMO he might well come out ahead on the deal. He can certainly bring together some damn fine prog/metal musicians, and with a new and fresh perspective it wouldn't surprise me if he did something a lot better than what we've been hearing from the other camp.
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Well, you'd have to think that he'd be pretty damned motivated.
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Well, you'd have to think that he'd be pretty damned motivated.
Yeah, and I think MP at this stage of the game he is not motivated to do a prog metal outfit or to start a band from scratch. As he said, he planted 3 seeds (FC, AMob and Winery Dogs) and chose the ones he saw promise (FC and Winery Dogs)...and FC is only a part time band. In my personal opinion, I see MP more as a hired gun and choosing and doing projects that he is interested than putting out a band by his own (a new prog metal band that is). PSMS seems like it did not go anywhere. It was a good lineup, not great though imo.
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Well, as a strategy it certainly looks like his approach, but it's wrong. I like the planting seeds analogy so I'll ride with it. He's planting carrots, cabbages, corn, wheat and rutabagas, and whichever one takes off he'll continue to grow. Well, if your motivation is to keep food on the table (which I doubt is a concern for the man) or to stick it to your former bandmates by being more successful, well I guess it makes sense. However, the better plan is to plant something you really like. If watermelon is your one true love, then quit trying to grow eggplant. He'll be happier and he'll be more successful in the long run.
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Wouldn't be too surprised if DS was not too interested in doing a prog project. He had Planet X, and no offense to MP, but he's not a Virgil Donati.
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If watermelon is your one true love, then quit trying to grow eggplant. He'll be happier and he'll be more successful in the long run.
So would I. I love watermelon and hate eggplant! ;D
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Eggplant is awesome when prepared right.
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Eggplant is awesome when prepared right.
(https://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140616205532/cardfight/images/f/f8/IMPOSSIBRu.jpg)
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Eggplant is awesome when prepared right.
Border Cafe in Cambridge. Eggplant Royale is to die for.
I like TA and FC. TWD aren't bad. I like them. Mindblowing? No.
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Eggplant is awesome when prepared right.
Border Cafe in Cambridge. Eggplant Royale is to die for.
I like TA and FC. TWD aren't bad. I like them. Mindblowing? No.
Um..Blowing? YES.
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I like FC, but TA has lost its luster for me. And TWD is the kind of band I would probably enjoy live if I accidentally saw them at a bar or something.
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And TWD is the kind of band I would probably enjoy live if I accidentally saw them at a bar or something.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I am expecting waaaaaayyyy more from someone I've followed with awe for the last 20+ years.
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When I heard of that line up I thought, proggier Mr. Big. I was right.
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When I heard of that line up I thought, proggier Mr. Big. I was right.
Not for nothing, but Mr. Big was a huge disappointment too.
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I wasn't over the hill for them either. Then they backed up Rush on 2 tours dammit. :lol
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I wasn't over the hill for them either. Then they backed up Rush on 2 tours dammit. :lol
Yup, saw them open for Rush. Also went to see them at The Living Room in Providence but we were so drunk, they wouldn't let us in the door. I really regret missing it.
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Narragansett FTW!
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Narragansett FTW!
More like So Co and Buschweiser.
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OOFH!!
Those days are loooong gone. Wife tried to mix shots with beers at a fire pit with a ton of friends. She enjoyed the bathroom for an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHhgllqSKro
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:lol
I'm thinking there is no way he is going to post a video of Mrs. King puking!
And she is way too nice for that. You are a bad influence. :biggrin:
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And TWD is the kind of band I would probably enjoy live if I accidentally saw them at a bar or something.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I am expecting waaaaaayyyy more from someone I've followed with awe for the last 20+ years.
Well, to some degree it shows how much fame is dependent on right place, right time, right combination of people.
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And TWD is the kind of band I would probably enjoy live if I accidentally saw them at a bar or something.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I am expecting waaaaaayyyy more from someone I've followed with awe for the last 20+ years.
Well, to some degree it shows how much fame is dependent on right place, right time, right combination of people.
Right, but DTis my favorite band for obviously a whole host of reasons, but number 1 was always watching MP perform, and enjoying the ride that his vision brought to the band.
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:lol
I'm thinking there is no way he is going to post a video of Mrs. King puking!
And she is way too nice for that. You are a bad influence. :biggrin:
Nope that would be the cackle of hens she was drinking with. :lol
And TWD is the kind of band I would probably enjoy live if I accidentally saw them at a bar or something.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I am expecting waaaaaayyyy more from someone I've followed with awe for the last 20+ years.
Well, to some degree it shows how much fame is dependent on right place, right time, right combination of people.
I'd say for one album they've made a nice niche so far. We'll see if it goes on for many albums.
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:lol
I'm thinking there is no way he is going to post a video of Mrs. King puking!
And she is way too nice for that. You are a bad influence. :biggrin:
Nope that would be the cackle of hens she was drinking with. :lol
:lol
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I like FC, but TA has lost its luster for me. And TWD is the kind of band I would probably enjoy live if I accidentally saw them at a bar or something.
I saw their set at Sonisphere, and enjoyed it a fair bit. But yeah, they're hardly a particularly exciting band.
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I'd like Mike to work with Russell Allen again, but not something shit like AMOB.
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MP and Russell Allen should've been a match made in heaven. While I was alright with AMOB when it came out, it didn't even come close to the potential of what a duo like that should have.
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MP and Russell Allen should've been a match made in heaven. While I was alright with AMOB when it came out, it didn't even come close to the potential of what a duo like that should have.
You are right, even though I'm not a huge Russ Allen guy. I like hard rock music, so I can get through A Mob, but really, that's not what I was looking for.
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They should have added Allen to PSMS and then write some songs.
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They should have added Allen to PSMS and then write some songs.
Yeah, absolutely.
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That would've been the perfect lineup. I hope PSMS still have some tricks up their sleeves, so much untapped potential there. Even if they don't get a singer, the instrumental music they come up with could rival LTE or Planet X really.
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I think partially the problem is, who would write the songs? Mike can't write songs as a drummer, and he has long ceased pushing the envelope when it comes to drumming. Billy writes pop songs really, so the two remaining are T-Mac and DS. They might be interested in doing more fusion, but let's be honest, neither Billy nor Mike can play fusion.
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I think partially the problem is, who would write the songs? Mike can't write songs as a drummer, and he has long ceased pushing the envelope when it comes to drumming. Billy writes pop songs really, so the two remaining are T-Mac and DS. They might be interested in doing more fusion, but let's be honest, neither Billy nor Mike can play fusion.
I'm certain that both Mike Portnoy and Billy Sheehan can handle prog/jazz fusion just fine.
Haven't you heard of Niacin?
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They might be interested in doing more fusion, but let's be honest, neither Billy nor Mike can play fusion.
Don't know about Mike, but you're wrong about Billy. Go listen to any of the Niacin records---it's some of the sickest fusion out there. I'm pretty sure both of them fuckers could play any style they want to. You have to remember that just because we haven't heard MP play certain styles doesn't mean he can't; all it means is that he hasn't had a chance to in the right project yet.
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AMob = Garbage
TWD = I laughed at the first few songs I heard. I just couldn't take it seriously (have you seen the music video?)
FC = Some really great tracks, some very mediocre tracks
I don't even really care what the guy puts out anymore. I'm done.
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I don't even really care what the guy puts out anymore. I'm done.
MP called, he wants his angst back.
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I think partially the problem is, who would write the songs? Mike can't write songs as a drummer, and he has long ceased pushing the envelope when it comes to drumming. Billy writes pop songs really, so the two remaining are T-Mac and DS. They might be interested in doing more fusion, but let's be honest, neither Billy nor Mike can play fusion.
I'm certain that both Mike Portnoy and Billy Sheehan can handle prog/jazz fusion just fine.
Haven't you heard of Niacin?
Niacin is exactly what I was going to mention. That is some bad shit right there.
Billy Sheehan can play any style.
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And you slackers only mention this now? I'm gonna check it out. Regarding MP though, he had to dumb down the drum parts in Apocalypse 1470 to play it. He is a great natural talent, but I find his lack of practicing shows in his limited range.
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MP called, he wants his angst back.
::)
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And you slackers only mention this now? I'm gonna check it out. Regarding MP though, he had to dumb down the drum parts in Apocalypse 1470 to play it. He is a great natural talent, but I find his lack of practicing shows in his limited range.
There are no dumbed down drum parts in Niacin.
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I listened to it earlier a bit (the latest album), and yeah, no dumbed down stuff at all. :lol
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I listened to it earlier a bit (the latest album), and yeah, no dumbed down stuff at all. :lol
So, what did you think?
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I actually quite liked the title track, Krunch. There was one that struck me as "pointless" (which is always the danger in fusion, where it's just continuously noodling), but I definitely have to dig deeper. Any album/track suggestions?
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I love their live album Blood, Sweat, & Beers, but it's all pretty good.
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This is the problem with Mike right now. He's a gun for hire instead of finding a new home. He's a fill in and has rotating projects all the time. I think it was the main reason he was burned out from DT, too many damn projects. Mike is a guy that doesn't want down time in his life at all. Sometimes you need to pull back a little but he pulled back from the one thing that should have mattered the most instead of all the other things in his life.
I just got LTE. Never had an interest in it, really, but took a chance and ended up liking it.
In the liner notes, MP talks about finishing a ton of DT touring and looking forward to several months off and not wanting to do a side project at first.
What happened to that? Occasionally I'll check out his twitter and he says things like, "My first full week off at home since...." and I'm thinking, shit, I go on vacation for two or three weeks and all I can think of is how great it will be stay home and not worry about anything except getting groceries and watering the garden.
Maybe he needs to take more time off. Then again, what do I know? Obviously there is an audience for his side projects. I just can't get into any of them.
Also, he is always asked about doing a side project with Mikael Åkerfeldt and always seems to publicly pressure him to do something. I'm getting the notion that Mikael doesn't really want to.
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Yeah, I wonder whether that will ever get going. The collaboration talk was back in the day for Storm Corrosion, but I kinda suspect that Mikael (and Steven) have their musical heads elsewhere these days.
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Mikael and MP could've done something really awesome when Mikael was into death metal, but he seems to be done with that. I don't know a lot of SW's work, but based on what I've heard I can't imagine a collaboration between him and MP to work as well.
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How can you say that when Mike is able to play many styles of Prog. That makes no sense.
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How can you say that when Mike is able to play many styles of Prog. That makes no sense.
I think it's more about how well their current musical interests mesh, rather than capability. A common goal is important for a collaborative project, and they're probably on different pages at this point in time.
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Maybe but I bet Mike would just in a heartbeat, to play with Steven no matter what the style. He's had a hard on for years to work with him. Secondlly, Mike has already proven how many different styles of music he can play, DT, TA, FC, A-Mob (yuk) TWD, so meshing in is not a problem.
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Keep in mind though that SW has the phone number of some top-notch drummers like Gavin Harrison and Marco Minnemann. I think SW would have to specifically want MP's drumming style and sound. Given that Steven is skirting jazz lately, I think Harrison and Minnemann are probably his first choices.
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I don't know how well the two would work together anyway, they both tend to be rather dominant personalities.
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Keep in mind though that SW has the phone number of some top-notch drummers like Gavin Harrison and Marco Minnemann. I think SW would have to specifically want MP's drumming style and sound. Given that Steven is skirting jazz lately, I think Harrison and Minnemann are probably his first choices.
100% dead on. I'm just saying I think Mike would like to play with him. I do believe that he could play wit h Steve now but like you said, Steve's focus is on a certain style and Marco fits that bill to a tee!
I don't know how well the two would work together anyway, they both tend to be rather dominant personalities.
sometimes the best tension in the studio makes for the best music in the studio.
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Honestly, I would bet that Wilson has very little desire to work with Portnoy, because with Portnoy, you don't just get his drumming; you get his personality and everything that goes with it, too, and I'll bet that is something he doesn't want to deal with. Notice that all of the guys in Wilson's current solo band are low key and understated guys; you don't ever hear anything about any of them, despite them all being world class musicians, and none of them have loud personalities on the internet and/or social media. Portnoy would be the antithesis of that.
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And I agree too Kev.
I would also say they same thing about Neal Morse but he seems to work with him all the time.
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NM is a really nice dude with a seemingly boundless degree of patience and understanding. SW isn't any kind of dick but he seems far less likely to put up with shit.
dick but
:lol
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I never thought Mike personality would mesh with Neal's either but it's worked.
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I have more than once scratched my head at this tight MP/NM collaboration. You'd think NM could bring in different drummers to shake things up sound wise, but he always seems to go back to Mike. Who knows, maybe they bond over that both of them had some cataclysmic event they came "renewed" out of.
But yeah, SW would likely not put up with MP's personality, or his attempts to "direct" Steven's music. Steven is also soooo British/European, it's not surprising the people he surrounds himself with are from Europe (or expats, like Marco)
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Both are Uber controlling so I agree. I still wonder how the dynamics work with FC.
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How can you say that when Mike is able to play many styles of Prog. That makes no sense.
Late to this, but exactly what Blob says. I don't think Mike is incapable, I just don't think the two would mesh as well.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but SW seems to go for a more laid back and restrained approach to his music. He's big on tension and release. Something Gavin Harrison excels at. MP has a much more direct and in your face approach. I can't imagine his drumming on a Porcupine Tree record. I like his style a lot, I just don't imagine it blending well with SW's.
And yea, not to mention the almost guaranteed personality clash that would happen.
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Again. I agree with you. I don't think it would happen but like i said strange pairings have happened that's worked for Mike. I do think like I and others have said, to headstrong like Steven and Mike my not work well together. I still think it would be cool to hear.
But Steven at a different point in his music and I bet it will never happen.
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MP, Chuck Schuldiner, Jeff Loomis, and Sean Malone would've made a cool lineup.
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Again. I agree with you. I don't think it would happen but like i said strange pairings have happened that's worked for Mike. I do think like I and others have said, to headstrong like Steven and Mike my not work well together. I still think it would be cool to hear.
But Steven at a different point in his music and I bet it will never happen.
Oh yea, I would've loved to see a Wilson/Portnoy at least attempted. Wilson has expressed a love for more extreme metal and I wonder if MP's style would bring out heavier songwriting from him, or a more reserved style of drumming from MP.
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MP doesn't play extreme metal though either. His blast beats he couldn't play live and had to simplify it.
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I meant more with his heavier approach to drums in general. He doesn't do extreme metal but he does play a much heavier style than Steven Wilson.
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That's true. Frankly though, he can get all that from Marco, and more, without the personality. If there's one thing that was made clear during the A7X thing and the split, you don't just get MP on drums; there's a certain amount of drama you have to buy into as well.
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I get the feeling Marco isn't there as a creative force though, and is more or less there to play what SW wants. So the capability is there, but it's not being utilized. If SW was to do a project with MP where both members were giving input, MP could possibly bring that out of him.
I don't think A7X is a fair example. Apparently MP wasn't completely sure what the terms of his tenure in that band were, which is his own fault, but that's where the drama seems to come from. Take Adrenaline Mob for example, that was a very clean split with no public drama involved. If I was SW, I'd be more concerned about having to compromise a certain level of creative control.
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I get the feeling Marco isn't there as a creative force though, and is more or less there to play what SW wants. So the capability is there, but it's not being utilize. If SW was to do a project with MP where both members were giving input, MP could possibly bring that out of him.
Huh? I don't think there is anything that Portnoy could bring out of Wilson that he doesn't bring to the table already. Considering what a master songwriter Wilson is, I think only a somewhat-equally creative mind could do such a thing, and Mike Portnoy is simply not that guy.
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That's short-sighted. It'd be more accurate to say that an actual clone of SW couldn't bring anything more out of him. Even someone with no musical experience whatsoever can bring things out of anyone since they'll have traveled a different musical path and have different influences and preferences. It's not as simple as "You can't be influenced by a 'lesser' creative talent."
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Right. Steven Wilson may be a great songwriter/musician/whatever but to say he can't be influenced by another creative force is ridiculous.
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Okay, but is Mike Portnoy really a creative force?
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Dude. Semantics. He can influence him by doing something as simple as suggesting trying out some native Japanese koto music or anything else that has yet to have appeared in any of SW's previous works.
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Okay, but is Mike Portnoy really a creative force?
Do you honestly think that if the two were to collaborate, MP would just sit there and simply provide a beat to SW's music without giving any input at all? Come on, it's well known at this point that MP is always going to want to give input and is always going to have his own vision of what a song should be like. Listen to the last DT albums he was on; his stamp is all over those two albums.
He might not be a songwriter in the true sense of the word, but it's obvious when listening to a lot of albums featuring MP that he's contributing creatively. For better or for worse.
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Okay, but regarding this:
it's well known at this point that MP is always going to want to give input and is always going to have his own vision of what a song should be like. Listen to the last DT albums he was on; his stamp is all over those two albums.
I think it goes back to Wilson probably not wanting Portnoy's stamp on any of his music, otherwise he probably would have worked with him by now. I mean, they have known each other a little bit since PT opened for DT back in the early 2000s, and both guys always have tons of projects going on.
Again though, I think Portnoy's creativity comes across in arrangements and conceptual ideas, not actual songwriting. In other words, give him the music and the songs and he'll assemble them in a nice fashion more often than not, but don't ask him to write a lot of the actual melodies.
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Right, well whether or not SW actually wants MP's stamp is another matter altogether. :lol
And exactly, MP is certainly not a songwriter. But he does have the ability to say "this part should be heavier" or influence the tone of a song in general. That really goes a long way, as his time in DT proved.
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I think SW is the more classic songwriter who sits for hours in front of his piano (or guitar) and writes/twiddles things. MP seems to quite like the "let's get into one room and brainstorm a song" approach (probably because otherwise he would have no influence over it at all).
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And exactly, MP is certainly not a songwriter. But he does have the ability to say "this part should be heavier" or influence the tone of a song in general. That really goes a long way, as his time in DT proved.
Agreed, but that part of the process is like the guy who arranges how a plate of food looks at a restaurant. Sure, it's an important part of the process, presentation and all, but the chef who cooked the food ultimately is far more important. And if you haven't guessed, Wilson is the chef and Portnoy is the plate arranger. :lol :lol
I think SW is the more classic songwriter who sits for hours in front of his piano (or guitar) and writes/twiddles things. MP seems to quite like the "let's get into one room and brainstorm a song" approach (probably because otherwise he would have no influence over it at all).
Agreed.
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I can just picture Mike and Steven in a room together... Steven deep in thought noodling on something (like rumby said)... Mike peering over his shoulder to give some input and Steven just saying "Fuck Off."
Very similar to "Not Freebird" (some of you know what I'm talking about)
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And exactly, MP is certainly not a songwriter. But he does have the ability to say "this part should be heavier" or influence the tone of a song in general. That really goes a long way, as his time in DT proved.
Agreed, but that part of the process is like the guy who arranges how a plate of food looks at a restaurant. Sure, it's an important part of the process, presentation and all, but the chef who cooked the food ultimately is far more important. And if you haven't guessed, Wilson is the chef and Portnoy is the plate arranger. :lol :lol
Well if you don't have a guy to set out plates, how are people gonna eat? The chef is much to busy preparing the meal! :p
it also depends on who the writer is and how much of an influence the arranger/creative direction/etc guy has. For example, DT were obviously okay with MP having a huge influence on the process and MP has a very dominating personality that makes it easy for him to get his way. SW doesn't strike me as the sort of person who is going to give up control that easily. I imagine this (more than anything else) is the main reason he hasn't reached out to MP to start a collaboration. Not to mention SW comes off as a very quiet reserved person and MP is the polar opposite of that. There's a decent chance that he's not even comfortable being in a work space with him.
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Very similar to "Not Freebird" (some of you know what I'm talking about)
?????
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On one of the Porcupine Tree live dvds... Steven begins to introduce a song and someone yells "FREEBIRD!". Steven, in his englishness, responds with a snappy annoyed "NOT Freebird".
yeeaaaa
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Yeah, that happens right before Trains on Arriving Somewhere.
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I think SW is the more classic songwriter who sits for hours in front of his piano (or guitar) and writes/twiddles things. MP seems to quite like the "let's get into one room and brainstorm a song" approach (probably because otherwise he would have no influence over it at all).
Interesting take, and probably not inaccurate.
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Both are Uber controlling so I agree. I still wonder how the dynamics work with FC.
I think MP became controlling of DT over time. As Kevin Moore left, there was a void, and he started to assert himself more. James, being in Canada, and not playing instruments, got pushed to the back, and JM became more passive. Tt. hat left John Petrucci and later Jordan Rudess with Jordan being more go with the flow type of thing. So it left JP and MP to duke it ou
When it comes to a band with a bunch of established musicians, I think MP is happy to take the backseat more. Still exerting an influence but doesn't push his luck.
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I imagine he works better in projects like FC because of Neal Morse. There seems to be a mutual respect there and a dynamic that works much better than any other MP project, DT included. I think MP is more willing to let Morse do whatever he wants as far as writing/direction goes and Morse is fine letting MP arrange the music and write setlists and just more organizational things in general. So I imagine that carries over to FC pretty well.
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I imagine he works better in projects like FC because of Neal Morse. There seems to be a mutual respect there and a dynamic that works much better than any other MP project, DT included. I think MP is more willing to let Morse do whatever he wants as far as writing/direction goes and Morse is fine letting MP arrange the music and write setlists and just more organizational things in general. So I imagine that carries over to FC pretty well.
Do we know that that is MP's role with Neal Morse? I think that stuff is pretty equally divided.
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That's what I'm saying. Mike's place in a Neal Morse band seems to be pretty clear. On the Kaleidoscope doc it looked like MP pretty much put together the structure of the title epic himself, the other guys seemed totally fine with whatever he decided. But when you watch them jamming/writing, it's really Morse directing everything and Portnoy seems to go with whatever Morse wants while throwing in his two cents here and there like the rest of the guys do.
He may have overstretched his role in other projects (especially DT), but I don't notice that with Morse related things.
And it's all speculation anyway; based on documentaries, interviews, and the music itself.
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That's what I'm saying. Mike's place in a Neal Morse band seems to be pretty clear. On the Kaleidoscope doc it looked like MP pretty much put together the structure of the title epic himself, the other guys seemed totally fine with whatever he decided. But when you watch them jamming/writing, it's really Morse directing everything and Portnoy seems to go with whatever Morse wants while throwing in his two cents here and there like the rest of the guys do.
He may have overstretched his role in other projects (especially DT), but I don't notice that with Morse related things.
And it's all speculation anyway; based on documentaries, interviews, and the music itself.
Ah, I gotcha. Admittedly, I haven't seen much Neal Morse stuff but that was the impression I got.
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BTW, in terms of collaboration, I always thought it was somewhat telling that both Wilson and Akerfeldt have collaborated on OSI albums, but they yet have to do something with MP.
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To be fair, Akerfeldt worked with OSI after Portnoy left. So I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Also, how much interaction is there between OSI and their guest musicians? I know Mikael recorded his vocals from home and sent his parts by email, I wonder if SW did the same thing?
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I think one major fundamental difference between Wilson and Portnoy is:
Portnoy looks at working with other musicians as crossing them off his bucket list of who he wants to play with. Kind of like, "I want to work with this guy or that guy because I haven't yet, and whatever music comes out of it, cool."
Wilson looks at working with other musicians as finding which guys best fit whatever project he is working on at that moment. Kind of like, "Okay, who is best suited to fit this project?"
Granted, there are exceptions, like Storm Corrosion specifically being a Wilson/Akerfeldt project where they went in having no idea what kind of music they'd come up with, but overall, I think it's usually the opposite with Wilson.
Neither approach is right or wrong, or better or worse, but it just shows the difference in how they approach projects, their completely different personalities notwithstanding.
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BTW, in terms of collaboration, I always thought it was somewhat telling that both Wilson and Akerfeldt have collaborated on OSI albums, but they yet have to do something with MP.
Actually MP played on the first OSI album, which includes the song SW sang on, but that's got to be the only time those two have performed on a song together.
Also, how much interaction is there between OSI and their guest musicians? I know Mikael recorded his vocals from home and sent his parts by email, I wonder if SW did the same thing?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Steven did it that way too. After all, he's a skilled engineer, and the video material from the debut sessions only shows Kevin, Jim and MP.
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Woah, I had no idea there was video of recording sessions!
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Woah, I had no idea there was video of recording sessions!
Yes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOcSDXwRgo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBjX7XxDcWI
There might be more, but those are the only ones I remember.
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I think one major fundamental difference between Wilson and Portnoy is:
Portnoy looks at working with other musicians as crossing them off his bucket list of who he wants to play with. Kind of like, "I want to work with this guy or that guy because I haven't yet, and whatever music comes out of it, cool."
Yeah, definitely. Mike seems to have settled into a specific modus operandi at this point when writing music, one aspect being what you mention. The other one being, at least it seems that way, that he time-limits the writing sessions. The impression I have gotten over the last few years is that most of the projects he was involved in, wrote their albums in a matter of days.
That's probably directly opposed to how SW goes about it. He strikes me as the "it takes as long as it takes" kind of guy.
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Woah, I had no idea there was video of recording sessions!
Yes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOcSDXwRgo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBjX7XxDcWI
There might be more, but those are the only ones I remember.
I was actually looking for footage of Kev. Was he not there when on the days MP played the drums?
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^He appears in the second clip, although not during the drum recordings. However, according to MP's studio diary Kevin was there and gave him direction on some songs: https://themooreatorium.proboards.com/thread/89
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Woooow, I had no idea OSI was supposed to have Gildenlöw on it, and MP was pushing hard for him. So happy that didn't happen. Kudos to Matheos for not just letting OSI drift into the usual prog metal corner.
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Those videos came as a CD-Rom extra on the double disc of the first album in case anyone is interested in owning a copy. The packaging is badass too. Looks like a passport.
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This is the problem with Mike right now. He's a gun for hire instead of finding a new home. He's a fill in and has rotating projects all the time. I think it was the main reason he was burned out from DT, too many damn projects. Mike is a guy that doesn't want down time in his life at all. Sometimes you need to pull back a little but he pulled back from the one thing that should have mattered the most instead of all the other things in his life.
I don't know about that. He's always tried to incorporate different styles to varying degrees, but that fire mostly burned out after Score.
Maybe what he needs is a Zappa-type band where you can be free just throw everything into it but I don't know if that kind of band can succeed to the commercial degree it needs to be sustainable in this musical climate.
It's funny, when I first got into Dream Theater, I thought they could be that band, but I was wrong.
If you represented songs from every project he was in and packaged it, that would be one hell of album. At least it would be for me.
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The Winery Dogs are sort of like King's X for me: solid hard rock that I never have any urge to listen to.
Clearly you've not heard much in the way of King's X. Maybe it's just me, but I would never characterize King's X as "solid hard rock."
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:facepalm:
That was a general term I used off the top of my head. I have four or five of their albums and have seen them live, so I am well aware of what their sound is.
You missed my point anyway, which is that both bands have music I acknowledge as being enjoyable, but I simply have no urge to ever listen to either.
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And TWD is the kind of band I would probably enjoy live if I accidentally saw them at a bar or something.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I am expecting waaaaaayyyy more from someone I've followed with awe for the last 20+ years.
Well, to some degree it shows how much fame is dependent on right place, right time, right combination of people.
Right, but DTis my favorite band for obviously a whole host of reasons, but number 1 was always watching MP perform, and enjoying the ride that his vision brought to the band.
I think you'd probably enjoy the Winery Dogs live. The studio album is okay, but seeing them live just puts it on another level.
A-Mob was a much less endowed version of that relationship, but I think the comparison is valid.
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:facepalm:
That was a general term I used off the top of my head. I have four or five of their albums and have seen them live, so I am well aware of what their sound is.
You missed my point anyway, which is that both bands have music I acknowledge as being enjoyable, but I simply have no urge to ever listen to either.
Fair enough.
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I always said that The Winery Dogs are a band I would enjoy seeing live if I randomly walked into a bar where they would be playing. It's just not music I would go out of my way for buying or listen to.
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This is the problem with Mike right now. He's a gun for hire instead of finding a new home. He's a fill in and has rotating projects all the time. I think it was the main reason he was burned out from DT, too many damn projects. Mike is a guy that doesn't want down time in his life at all. Sometimes you need to pull back a little but he pulled back from the one thing that should have mattered the most instead of all the other things in his life.
I don't know about that. He's always tried to incorporate different styles to varying degrees, but that fire mostly burned out after Score.
Maybe what he needs is a Zappa-type band where you can be free just throw everything into it but I don't know if that kind of band can succeed to the commercial degree it needs to be sustainable in this musical climate.
It's funny, when I first got into Dream Theater, I thought they could be that band, but I was wrong.
If you represented songs from every project he was in and packaged it, that would be one hell of album. At least it would be for me.
Well, listen, I thing his focus was lost on DT because he could play different styles of music on other projects. But that is pigeonholing DT. I think he talked himself into DT needing a break for artist reasons and not cutting back on side projects and focusing that desire more in DT. Sure we got more Roo Roo's but really how much of that style did he play after he left DT?
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I always said that The Winery Dogs are a band I would enjoy seeing live if I randomly walked into a bar where they would be playing. It's just not music I would go out of my way for buying or listen to.
Yeah I could agree with that. Same for Flying Colors, TA, and everything else MP is involved with.
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Maybe what he needs is a Zappa-type band where you can be free just throw everything into it but I don't know if that kind of band can succeed to the commercial degree it needs to be sustainable in this musical climate.
It's funny, when I first got into Dream Theater, I thought they could be that band, but I was wrong.
If you represented songs from every project he was in and packaged it, that would be one hell of album. At least it would be for me.
He ought to start a side project with Devin Townsend then.
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Misquoted.
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How did that even happen?
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MIKE PORTNOY GREATEST HITS (2014)
CD1-
1. Another Won
2. Pull Me Under
3. Paradigm Shift
4. Acid Rain
5. My New World
6. I am the Walrus (Beatles Cover)
7. Honor Thy Father
8. Panic Attack
9. Octavarium
CD2-
1. 2112 (Rush Cover)
2. Evermore
3. Set Us Free
4. The Shattered Fortress
5. Psychosane
6. Indifferent
7. Fool in my Heart
8. Elevate
9. Mask Machine
10. Cosmic Symphony
Coming November 2014...
-
MIKE PORTNOY GREATEST HITS (2014)
CD1-
1. Another Won
2. Pull Me Under
3. Paradigm Shift
4. Acid Rain
5. My New World
6. I am the Walrus (Beatles Cover)
7. Honor Thy Father
8. Panic Attack
9. Octavarium
CD2-
1. 2112 (Rush Cover)
2. Evermore
3. Set Us Free
4. The Shattered Fortress
5. Psychosane
6. Indifferent
7. Fool in my Heart
8. Elevate
9. Mask Machine
10. Cosmic Symphony
Coming November 2014...
The lack of ACOS/Neal Morse material bothers me.
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Any MP-related comp should have ACOS.
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True, plus the first CD is also 90 minutes long :lol
To be honest, I'm really not too familiar with Neal Morse stuff. So how's this-
MIKE PORTNOY GREATEST HITS (2014)
CD1-
1. Another Won
2. Pull Me Under
3. A Change of Seasons
3. Paradigm Shift
4. Acid Rain
5. My New World
CD2-
1. Something epic from Testimony? Like one of the 5 parts?
2. Honor Thy Father
3. Panic Attack
4. Octavarium
5. I am the Walrus (Beatles Cover)
CD3-
1. 2112 (Rush Cover)
2. Evermore
3. Set Us Free
4. The Shattered Fortress
5. Psychosane
6. Indifferent
7. Fool in my Heart
8. Elevate
9. Mask Machine
10. Cosmic Symphony
Coming November 2014...
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And no Psychosane.
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Yea I hate AMOB but it just kinda has to be there for the lulz..
(I've never used that word before, did I do it right? :lol)
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You're not going to include Portnoy's greatest musical achievement?
ROOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
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I'd replace Honor Thy Father with Constant Motion, personally.
And also, yeah no Psychosane :lol
cant please everyone
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I could take either Constant Motion or Honor Thy Father. Love both.
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If I was to choose a good AMob song which displays MP´s skills quite well, I´d choose Believe Me.
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Yea I hate AMOB but it just kinda has to be there for the lulz..
(I've never used that word before, did I do it right? :lol)
You internetted good.
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OK, so is it bad that when I clicked on this I was hoping for a "....Jewish?" in the post?
Yeah I know old nostaligic inside joke...
Plus I wanted an excuse to put "Progger... can't spell? :omg:" again
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IMO, any MP Greatest Hits has to include at least ONE song from each of the following Non-DT acts:
Liquid Tension Experiment
OSI (first two albums)
Transatlantic
Neal Morse and/or Morse/Portnoy/George
Adrenaline Mob
Flying Colors
The Winery Dogs
The live covers band stuff isn't totally necessary, but if you wanted to do a disc of live covers and throw in some studio covers he's done with DT, TA, Neal Morse or MPG, then that would be fine. And if you pick from Cygnus & The Sea Monsters, why not got for "YYZ" with the drum solo? Perfect showcase for Mike! I mean, it's a compilation all about him, right? :tup
Also, any DT songs should likely be songs he wrote lyrics for, or at very least, has a large part in it drumming-wise, or vocally. Probably anything between FII and 8VM would be great.
In the end, I'd say if it was a 3-disc set (because his discography is so huge), the first disc would have to cover DT/LTE/OSI/AMob, the heavier stuff that he's been known for; the second disc would cover Neal's stuff, TA, Flying Colors, TWD, the more melodic/proggier stuff; and the third disc could be a covers disc, pulling various studio and live covers that he's done, just to show that Mike is a huge fan of music, and a great way to show off his influences and inspirations. Also, you can't forget the MagnaCarta covers albums he participated in, especially Working Man, which if I had to include ONE song from there, it would either have to be "La Villa Strangiato" or "Jacob's Ladder", easily my favorite performances of his on that album.
-Marc.
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Mike jumping on stage while his son's band plays Peruvian Skies. Funny he did the "GOOOOOOO!" like usual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vbvrEi6Fxo
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::)
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Ok ok ok I'll admit it... that was kinda cool.
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Not my initial reaction. :-#
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Ok ok ok I'll admit it... that was kinda cool.
This. That was fun to watch.
Also, their rendition of Peruvian Skies wasn't bad at all.
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Ok ok ok I'll admit it... that was kinda cool.
This. That was fun to watch.
Also, their rendition of Peruvian Skies wasn't bad at all.
Agreed! They sound pretty good, and congrats to them for being on that cruise! Of course, having the son of Mike Portnoy as your drummer kind of helps, but I hope there are big things for these kids as they get older, whether it's as Next To None or with other bands, these guys are pretty good! Better than I could do at that age.
-Marc.
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If they try to use their age and Portnoy's name as a gimmick and drawing power, they'll fail like Black Tide did.
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That was cool to watch! :corn
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If they try to use their age and Portnoy's name as a gimmick and drawing power, they'll fail like Black Tide did.
Man Black Tide, that first album was awesome, and that second album while for the most part was awful, had some good metal core songs on it that I could have totally seen Black Tide fully moving on to. But no, they play that shitty alt rock shit now.
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If they try to use their age and Portnoy's name as a gimmick and drawing power, they'll fail like Black Tide did.
Man Black Tide, that first album was awesome, and that second album while for the most part was awful, had some good metal core songs on it that I could have totally seen Black Tide fully moving on to. But no, they play that shitty alt rock shit now.
The first album might be good, I don't know as I haven't heard it, but I never bought into the whole "we're kids and awesome at our instruments" gimmick. They were only popular because of that, and they knew it, and once they grew up the novelty wore off and they fell off the face of the earth, and I saw it coming. Hopefully the new Symphonic Metal band Arion aren't trying to do the same thing, because their debut is pretty amazing.
If Black Tide hadn't used their age as a gimmick selling point, they might still be relevant.
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I don't think it was brought up in this thread; back in mid-August MP posted this on Facebook:
I know I'm bias, but this Next To None album is blowing me away!! I haven't been this impressed by a new Prog Metal band since Haken...
The new songs they've written are so incredibly mature and insane...they're doing the sort of stuff at age 15 & 16 that I wasn't doing in Dream Theater til I was in my 30's!
People are gonna be BLOWN AWAY by this album....
... which is, uh, a nice thing for him to say. By comparing the album to MP's work in DT when he was "in his 30's", he's effectively said it's on par with FII, SFAM, etc, in addition to Haken's latest work. I don't buy it at all, of course, but it must be nice to have MP as your dad if only for promotional reasons. In other words, he is indeed bias.
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I don't think it was brought up in this thread; back in mid-August MP posted this on Facebook:
I know I'm bias, but this Next To None album is blowing me away!! I haven't been this impressed by a new Prog Metal band since Haken...
The new songs they've written are so incredibly mature and insane...they're doing the sort of stuff at age 15 & 16 that I wasn't doing in Dream Theater til I was in my 30's!
People are gonna be BLOWN AWAY by this album....
... which is, uh, a nice thing for him to say. By comparing the album to MP's work in DT when he was "in his 30's", he's effectively said it's on par with FII, SFAM, etc, in addition to Haken's latest work. I don't buy it at all, of course, but it must be nice to have MP as your dad if only for promotional reasons. In other words, he is indeed bias.
We all know MP tends to overreact everything.
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I don't think it was brought up in this thread; back in mid-August MP posted this on Facebook:
I know I'm bias, but this Next To None album is blowing me away!! I haven't been this impressed by a new Prog Metal band since Haken...
The new songs they've written are so incredibly mature and insane...they're doing the sort of stuff at age 15 & 16 that I wasn't doing in Dream Theater til I was in my 30's!
People are gonna be BLOWN AWAY by this album....
... which is, uh, a nice thing for him to say. By comparing the album to MP's work in DT when he was "in his 30's", he's effectively said it's on par with FII, SFAM, etc, in addition to Haken's latest work. I don't buy it at all, of course, but it must be nice to have MP as your dad if only for promotional reasons. In other words, he is indeed bias.
We all know MP tends to overreact everything.
So does DTF, so that should work out well. :neverusethis:
They sounded pretty good for their ages, and I enjoyed that Peruvian Skies clip. Would I actually be interested in hearing their album? Not sure.
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I actually didn't think the rendition to be particularly great. Well-rehearsed to their skill level, but I honestly think they're being pushed into the spotlight beyond what is good for them. I think in the long run the association with MP is hurting them more than helping.
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I actually didn't think the rendition to be particularly great. Well-rehearsed to their skill level, but I honestly think they're being pushed into the spotlight beyond what is good for them. I think in the long run the association with MP is hurting them more than helping.
How long til they get two kits on stage so MP can drum alongside Max to DT covers ?
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I don't think it was brought up in this thread; back in mid-August MP posted this on Facebook:
I know I'm bias, but this Next To None album is blowing me away!! I haven't been this impressed by a new Prog Metal band since Haken...
The new songs they've written are so incredibly mature and insane...they're doing the sort of stuff at age 15 & 16 that I wasn't doing in Dream Theater til I was in my 30's!
People are gonna be BLOWN AWAY by this album....
... which is, uh, a nice thing for him to say. By comparing the album to MP's work in DT when he was "in his 30's", he's effectively said it's on par with FII, SFAM, etc, in addition to Haken's latest work. I don't buy it at all, of course, but it must be nice to have MP as your dad if only for promotional reasons. In other words, he is indeed bias.
On this one I'm going to say, yeah, cut the guy a little slack. His kid is in the band, of course he's biased, and good for him for admitting that at the outset. Meanwhile I'm sure many of us have made a hyperbolic comparison upon first hearing a band that we later refined upon further reflection. I know I have.
And as for whether having Mike promote the band so heavily is good or bad for them... I think if they're good enough to be successful they'll become successful sooner than they otherwise would have, and if they aren't, it won't stop them from failing. It's not really a huge deal, I don't think. And the cover was pretty good, but nothing incredible enough to convince me to investigate further (which a cover wouldn't have done anyway).
-
Praising them and promoting them is one thing, but where it crossed a line for me was on the cruise. I'm not going to say I blame Portnoy, because obviously he just as a father wants the band to do well, but Next to None has two time slots on the cruise with practically no competition with anyone else playing. Meanwhile there were some much more deserving acts that had only one time slot that often conflicted with some big acts.
As for the band on the whole, there is no question, they kids are good for their age. However I don't know if they've necessarily done anything to this point to deserve the bump they've got by Portnoy's connection. I hope they do blow us away eventually and live up to his hype, but I certainly don't think they are there yet.
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He also features prominently in their music video, which cemented the "MP's sons's band" feeling, instead of being a band that exists on its own merit.
-
Praising them and promoting them is one thing, but where it crossed a line for me was on the cruise. I'm not going to say I blame Portnoy, because obviously he just as a father wants the band to do well, but Next to None has two time slots on the cruise with practically no competition with anyone else playing. Meanwhile there were some much more deserving acts that had only one time slot that often conflicted with some big acts.
As for the band on the whole, there is no question, they kids are good for their age. However I don't know if they've necessarily done anything to this point to deserve the bump they've got by Portnoy's connection. I hope they do blow us away eventually and live up to his hype, but I certainly don't think they are there yet.
Agree with this.
So much really good prog bands cloud have filled that spot.
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He also features prominently in their music video, which cemented the "MP's sons's band" feeling, instead of being a band that exists on its own merit.
Can someone shoop MP and mP's faces into this please?
(https://undomesticdiva.com/wp-content/images/6a00e54f0f437c883401157194b107970b-pi)
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:lol
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(https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k34/Zook85/ThePathToMediocrity.jpg) (https://s84.photobucket.com/user/Zook85/media/ThePathToMediocrity.jpg.html)
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The kid should be like 18 and MP should be holding a sign saying " REMEMBER WHEN I WAS IN DREAM THEATER ??!!!! : ) : ) "
-
I was going to draw a flaming pit of death at the end of the sidewalk, but
I'm not that skilled I thought I'd leave it up to interpretation.
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Fucking fantastic, Zook! :hefdaddy
-
;D
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Fucking fantastic, Zook! :hefdaddy
eh, not my best work, but thanks.
I mean screw you, buddy!
-
I forgot. Do we still resent each other?
-
I think so.
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The kid should be like 18 and MP should be holding a sign saying " REMEMBER WHEN I WAS IN DREAM THEATER ??!!!! : ) : ) "
All that's missing is the angry nerd with binoculars spying from the house across the street wearing a DTF shirt.
-
Sorry, I don't have any of pics of Kotowboy.
-
And I am not a nerd. I may like the trek movies but apart from TNG I've barely seen any of the shows.
-
4 years ago today we all read a shocking press release.
-
Wow, seems like yesterday.
-
4 years ago today we all read a shocking press release.
:omg: Whoa, that's right! I completely forgot that it has been 4 years since the S.F. Giants came out of nowhere to take the lead in the penant race, and eventually go on to win their first World Series since the 1950s. How time flies!
-
4 years ago today we all read a shocking press release.
" B.....B..b.b.but my P..press release ! "
:emo:
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Can someone explain the press release references to me? I didn't have steady internet access for like an entire year when that was going on.
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I think we're just talking about when Mikey P split from the D?
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Can someone explain the press release references to me? I didn't have steady internet access for like an entire year when that was going on.
I was around and even I have trouble remembering everything. But it was surely funny. :lol
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It was something along the lines of :
" I thought about going back to DT but I had already put out my press release " .
And AX7 called him " too Press Release happy " meaning he would share all his private dealings with both bands in Press Releases rather than between lawyers and such.
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It was something along the lines of :
" I thought about going back to DT but I had already put out my press release " .
And AX7 called him " too Press Release happy " meaning he would share all his private dealings with both bands in Press Releases rather than between lawyers and such.
Dunno, I thought MP told AX7 he was free to 'be with them' and they told him they'd not really planned for that to be an eventuality. So MP told them 'but I've already done my press release.' Did I get that wrong?
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I do not think you are saying anything different.
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Can't believe it's been 27 years since the release of Hold Your Fire...
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Powerslave turned 30 the other day. Crazy times.
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Can't believe it's been a really long fucking time since Roman forces under Titus sacked Jerusalem.
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can't believe its only been a few hours since i ate, i'm starving
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Can't believe it's been 27 years since the release of Hold Your Fire...
I remember siting with a bud cranking it on that Tuesday
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My post was only in reference to MP announcing he quit. Yesterday was 4 years. Time flies...
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Can't believe it's been 27 years since the release of Hold Your Fire...
I remember siting with a bud cranking it on that Tuesday
First time I ever bought a CD new on release day.
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Can't believe it's been 27 years since the release of Hold Your Fire...
I remember siting with a bud cranking it on that Tuesday
What kind of 'bud'? Sorry, I had a flashback to my college days.
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My post was only in reference to MP announcing he quit. Yesterday was 4 years. Time flies...
Hard to believe it's been 4 years :omg:
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My post was only in reference to MP announcing he quit. Yesterday was 4 years. Time flies...
Hard to believe it's been 4 years :omg:
One more year and the "hiatus" will be over! ;D
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:lol
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My post was only in reference to MP announcing he quit. Yesterday was 4 years. Time flies...
Hard to believe it's been 4 years :omg:
Yea crazy how fast time flies.
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If MP ever broke up from the missus - would his Press Release contain a band analogy ?
" After 25 years as a functioning unit - Portnoy have decided to split. It was due to musical differences. "
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"I told her I thought it was in everyone's best interests if we took a hiatus or so to persue other interests, and that we could then come back together better than before. I was shocked when she told me she had already booked the studio time and was prepared to go forward, with or without me."
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" Marlene will now go by the name Marlene Of Fire ".
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Can't believe it's been 27 years since the release of Hold Your Fire...
I remember siting with a bud cranking it on that Tuesday
What kind of 'bud'? Sorry, I had a flashback to my college days.
That bud was for Floyd. :lol
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Hey, more power to him. Doesn't really appeal to me, but I wish him good luck, and I hope that what the subscribers get is worth the $3 a month to them.
+1
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Came across this picture of Derek. This must be his MP look. :lol
(https://rockpages.gr/images/reviews/flashback/lasttemptation/alicecooperlt6.jpg)
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Nah. That's more ZW than MP.
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That's Derek playing with Black Label Society I'm pretty sure. That's how he was dressed when I met him (and didn't recognize him at first)
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Good thing you sported your regular garb so he could spot you.
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If MP ever broke up from the missus - would his Press Release contain a band analogy ?
" After 25 years as a functioning unit - Portnoy have decided to split. It was due to musical differences. "
Jokes aside, I am always amazed when any musician who's away from home a lot of time because of touring/recording/etc. can keep a marriage together. Maybe it's because I come from a very traditional family, but I can't imagine both of my parents having not been around every day when I was growing up.
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I just realized that MP's post-DT career has officially jumped the shark for me. Flying Colors was the remaining project that kept my interest, but now they moved that project into the pile of NM prog.
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If MP ever broke up from the missus - would his Press Release contain a band analogy ?
" After 25 years as a functioning unit - Portnoy have decided to split. It was due to musical differences. "
Jokes aside, I am always amazed when any musician who's away from home a lot of time because of touring/recording/etc. can keep a marriage together. Maybe it's because I come from a very traditional family, but I can't imagine both of my parents having not been around every day when I was growing up.
It's actually one of the intriguing aspects of being a DT fan. All respects to their families.
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I think they're just seeing it as a job thing. It's like, ''Daddy's on a business trip. He's away for a while and then he's back home for a while, and that's what he does for a living.''
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"And that's how we afford this big ass pool"
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I think they're just seeing it as a job thing. It's like, ''Daddy's on a business trip. He's away for a while and then he's back home for a while, and that's what he does for a living.''
Plus, he's been doing this all their lives so they are grown up with it and used to it.
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"And that's how we afford this big ass and balls pool"
FTFY
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Went over to MP's forum to see the feedback BTFW got. Reading through the thread, I spotted an atrociously silly remark by one of the admins, so I replied to it. Seeing the general mentality there, after I saw that posting is admin approved only, I knew my comment will never see the light of day. No surprises there.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1141x535q90/743/xUstu7.jpg)
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Get up uh get get..get down..mp.com's a joke in your town.
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Went over to MP's forum to see the feedback BTFW got. Reading through the thread, I spotted an atrociously silly remark by one of the admins, so I replied to it. Seeing the general mentality there, after I saw that posting is admin approved only, I knew my comment will never see the light of day. No surprises there.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1141x535q90/743/xUstu7.jpg)
I was just checking out that thread a few hours ago and noticed your post said, "Flagged for approval by admins" and didnt have the body of the post visible.
Lame.
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that forum is one of those places that I avoid like the plague nowadays.
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Happy 10000th post darklol.
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Just discovered this thread (in fact this entire part of the board, up to now I've lurked only in the DT part of the board).
There are a few disparaging comments here re: Mike Portnoy's forum, and the people who stay "loyal" (not my word, which is daft in this context, but it's been used here a few times) to him, and as one of the more prolific posters on his board, I want to make a few comments.
Nobody - not even his most devoted, servile, willfully-blind-to-his-foibles fans - would deny that Mike does not always handle criticism in an appropriate way. He lets the occasional negative comment get to him far more than it should, but that's not uncommon for his personality type. He obviously has a very large and sensitive ego (this isn't necessarily a bad thing), he can be histrionic, he can be narcissistic, he can be petulant, he is totally confident that his way of doing things is the one right way, and he seems to have the art of passive-aggression down to a science; but he is who he is. I don't want to go all armchair-psychologist here, but it's that kind of character which was necessary to help get a band like Dream Theater up and running, and keep it running; it was that kind of character which wrote the parts he did. There are many, many artists throughout history who were, to varying degrees, less than exemplary human beings, as we all are.
I'm not suggesting Portnoy should get a free pass when he (sometimes) behaves the way he does. I am one of his biggest fans, probably one of those "asslickers" who get laughed at on other forums (not this one, generally), but even I will say (and did say at the time, to his wife no less on his forum) that his behaviour immediately following the DT split was inappropriate. But the man was hurting and reacted in the way he knew how to. That leads onto the MP.com...
Someone above has written about the moderator Nippet's response to his post about MP threads. I agree that Nippet's post was perhaps not properly thought-through (this board, DTF, has always been VERY respectful to Mike, even when it had every right to be annoyed with him), but you have to see it from the MP.com mods' point of view. Every day some wanker goes into the DT thread and posts some shit about Portnoy, and they have so much crap to deal with. It's probably just easier for them to keep all DT discussion in one place. Generally, I have never experienced any kind of actual censorship (in the sense of suppression of opinions) in that DT thread, all discussion of Portnoy, both positive and constructively critical, is welcomed.
Just wanted to note this stuff down and make the case for one of the "loyal MP sycophants".
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Great post overall, Dave_Manchester, but you can't tell me that criticism of MP isn't significantly censored on mp.com. I mean, The Man himself coined the "fans" term in quotation marks to distinguish his disciples (these days called MPWarriors) and the ones for whom it is never enough. That distinction is visibly enforced on that forum.
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And I really do say that it isn't censored, Rum. Go and take a look at the Flying Colors thread, or the TA Kaleidoscope thread, both of which contain posts constructively criticising the albums, and often the reason for the criticism is a belief that Mike has brought his affection for Muse or Coldplay to the table. When he was in the unfortunate Adrenaline Mob, that band - and his role in it - was roundly criticised on his forum.
The key is - any criticism which is directed to the actual music is allowed (the one infamous exception would be the post by PetFish about The Best of Times). It's only when the criticism is about his character that it gets 'censored', and why shouldn't it? Frankly speaking I see more people get threatened with a vacation on this site in a single week than I do in a year on MP.com. Portnoy has his flaws and faults, who among us doesn't? Again, I'm not saying the more blatant displays of petulance shouldn't be called to task (his "plagiarism" post about ADTOE was perhaps the worst), but I think too often he gets laughed at for character traits which are a) not that bad, b) quite common among artistic types, c) a necessary part of what drives the creative side of him, and d) hardly worth the level of vitriol that they provoke on other forums.
As for that whole 'MP Warriors' Twitter nonsense, well, that's for the 'MP Warriors' themselves to deal with. I'd imagine (and hope) most of them are kids, and the rest aren't very bright. I agree that Mike has a tendency to divide his 'fanbase' into those who are with him every step of the way, and those who are 'haters', he tends to see the concept of being a music fan in war-like terms, whereas 99% are merely people who like a lot of the music he helps create, but otherwise couldn't give a shit about everything else that goes with his career. I say again, Portnoy has his faults, and the "fans" coinage that you mention is a good example of it, but he also has enormous strengths, and it's those which help we "sycophants" to look past the flaws and stand up for him now and again.
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Happy 10000th post darklol.
My e-penis and myself thank you for this fine compliment, my good friend. :-*
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Sycsa: do you have a low post count over there? All new posters seem to have all of their posts flagged for approval. Don't know how many you need to post straight away; like most things the moderation seems to be a make it up as you go affair (as opposed to the "shut up and eat your pinecone!" style it had before). I post quite a bit there now but almost exclusively in the hijacked P/R threads. Good political discourse going on under the radar.
DM: consider signing up for P/R access here. Stadler's already aboard, and your unique insight would certainly be welcomed.
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It's only when the criticism is about his character that it gets 'censored', and why shouldn't it? Frankly speaking I see more people get threatened with a vacation on this site in a single week than I do in a year on MP.com.
In defense of the Mods here, this is one of the better run forums I have ever posted on. I do see them threatening people with a vacation but for good reason. They keep people respectful and on topic. Keep people from being overly emotional or personally insulting any and all members of Dream Theater past or present including Chris Collins and Mike Portnoy. So they aren't playing favorites and they do so without going on some big power trip. By having a blanket rule of respect I think it keeps people more in line and keeps people from being resentful. Over on MP's board it does seem a little more selective but hey, it is a very specific board dedicated to one member while this one is dedicated to all DT members which might also account for more participation. I used to post on MPs board but it isnt for me anymore.
On a side note, I still go over to MPs board occasionally and am somewhat familiar with your posts Dave Machester. A British dude living in Russa? Must be quite an adjustment but then again, I dated a girl from Russia for a while and can totally see why someone would want to move there. :smiley:
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as opposed to the "shut up and eat your pinecone!" style it had before
Best description of an authoritarian place I've heard. The classic episodes will never die as long as people recite them.
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Wait, the mods send people to Belize if they're bad?
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Frankly speaking I see more people get threatened with a vacation on this site in a single week than I do in a year on MP.com.
I think this is just a matter of things being done differently on the two sites. Here, people get warned in public threads for their behaviour for everyone to see, presumably so that everyone can see where the line gets drawn. At the MP forum, everything gets deleted so that no one ever knew anything happened. Just because you don't see people being warned by mods on that forum doesn't mean people aren't being warned or banned, it's just done in private there.
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Sycsa: do you have a low post count over there? All new posters seem to have all of their posts flagged for approval. Don't know how many you need to post straight away; like most things the moderation seems to be a make it up as you go affair (as opposed to the "shut up and eat your pinecone!" style it had before). I post quite a bit there now but almost exclusively in the hijacked P/R threads. Good political discourse going on under the radar.
Yeah, it was actually my very first post. I registered there about a year ago, but since it took the mods more than a month to approve it, I just forgot about it. It's not marked as flagged for approval anymore, it disappeared completely. MP forum...never again.
I have nothing but praise for the way this forum is moderated, it's apparent that the guys try to hold themselves to an objective standard in their moderating principles. There was a single instance when a mod reacted surprisingly passionately (to me) to a discussion regarding fiveeightforums, but even that was something like "guys, could you not talk about that?" instead of censorship, threats or this condescending "feel lucky to be able to talk about it" nonsense.
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as opposed to the "shut up and eat your pinecone!" style it had before
Best description of an authoritarian place I've heard. The classic episodes will never die as long as people recite them.
Yep. :clap: for the reference.
Great posts and great perspective, Dave_Manchester. :tup
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Sycsa: do you have a low post count over there? All new posters seem to have all of their posts flagged for approval. Don't know how many you need to post straight away; like most things the moderation seems to be a make it up as you go affair (as opposed to the "shut up and eat your pinecone!" style it had before). I post quite a bit there now but almost exclusively in the hijacked P/R threads. Good political discourse going on under the radar.
Yeah, it was actually my very first post. I registered there about a year ago, but since it took the mods more than a month to approve it, I just forgot about it. It's not marked as flagged for approval anymore, it disappeared completely. MP forum...never again.
I have nothing but praise for the way this forum is moderated, it's apparent that the guys try to hold themselves to an objective standard in their moderating principles. There was a single instance when a mod reacted surprisingly passionately (to me) to a discussion regarding fiveeightforums, but even that was something like "guys, could you not talk about that?" instead of censorship, threats or this condescending "feel lucky to be able to talk about it" nonsense.
Yeah, I went back and checked and sure enough they nuked your post. I have no idea why. Not sure what part could be problematic except for maybe questioning their style.
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I post in the baseball thread. Last few years, we had gotten them to over 3-5k posts. Haven't even hit 1k this year.
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Every time I read the title of this thread, all I can hear is Neal Morse from the Flying Colors Live in Europe album: "Mike Portnoy! You know him!"
That is all. Carry on.
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Okay, this is getting kinda ridiculous :lol
(https://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a619/styxkyd/ScreenShot2014-11-21at31540PM_zpsbdcd08a9.png) (https://s1286.photobucket.com/user/styxkyd/media/ScreenShot2014-11-21at31540PM_zpsbdcd08a9.png.html)
...Amazing.
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Can't wait for the colonoscopy!
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WTF
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"Sir, please put your phone away while we-"
"DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!"
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Can't wait for the colonoscopy!
You'll be one step closer to eating his ass and balls
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WTF
yeah pretty much this
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$2.99 to watch MP get a root canal! Count me in.....
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2.99 includes a hell of a lot more than a root canal. Although that, alone is totally worth it.
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$2.99 to watch MP get a root canal! Count me in.....
I paid $0.00. Still wasn't worth it.
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Well, not buying one of the greatest things ever is usually not worth it.
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That was so Kim-Kardashianish.
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When are we going to see Mike Portnoy's bare ass on the cover of Modern Drummer?
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When are we going to see Mike Portnoy's bare ass on the cover of Modern Drummer?
April
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:facepalm:
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BREAK THE INTERNET
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It might break Blabbermouth, at least.
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It might break Blabbermouth, at least.
One can only hope
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The Root Canal of All Evil
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This is one of those things that will randomly pop in my mind a year from now and I won't be able to tell if it was real or just a weird dream. Like the time Thomas Lang accidentally posted his wiener on Facebook.
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Lang put his wang out there?
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This is one of those things that will randomly pop in my mind a year from now and I won't be able to tell if it was real or just a weird dream. Like the time Thomas Lang accidentally posted his wiener on Facebook.
Haha. I remember hearing about that !
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The Root Canal of All Evil
The Dark Eternal Cavity
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This Dying Tooth
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The Tooth That Stumped Them All
Trial of Teeth
Take The Tooth
....
On The Backs Of Dentists
Kdone.
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Pull Me Tooth
A Fortune In (Dental) Bills
Take Away My Pain
In The Presence Of Dentistry Pt 1 (hopefully there's no Pt 2)
And some commentary on MP..........
Never Enough
In The Name Of God !!!!!!!!!!!
Status Seeker
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Drilling into Infinity
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Tooth Hurty on a Christmas Morning.
NOW I'm done. I suck at life.
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On The Backs Of Dentists
Mike Portnoy wasn't on that song.
How inconsiderate of you.
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Denture wish your girlfriend was hot like me ?! :neverusethis:
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Denture wish your girlfriend was hot like me ?! :neverusethis:
:lolpalm:
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Well, after all the painful drilling he's Finally Free and can go Home. :neverusethis:
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I know he wasn't involved in the song, but...
Illumination Theory: IV. The Pursuit of Tooth
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I know he wasn't involved in the song, but...
Illumination Theory: IV. The Pursuit of Tooth
Neither is this but, "You are caught up in your cavity!"
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It's definitely gotten quiet around the guy lately, at least in this thread. Is anybody still actively following him? I never would have thought it possible when he left DT, but there's no project of his left that I find musically interesting. FC was the last one, but they kinda killed it off, at least for me.
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It's definitely gotten quiet around the guy lately, at least in this thread. Is anybody still actively following him? I never would have thought it possible when he left DT, but there's no project of his left that I find musically interesting. FC was the last one, but they kinda killed it off, at least for me.
If by actively following you mean read his Facebook posts, then yeah, lol.
But yeah, musically, I haven't really been interested in what he's been doing lately. For all the praise that Flying Colors and Winery Dogs got, neither really hooked me. They were good, but nothing I found unique and interesting enough to start collecting, and like you said, now FC is dead in the water anyway.
Given his choices and tastes lately, I can't imagining him doing anything that would catch my interest, short of joining Megadeth, as people have been wanting. :lol
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Wait what happened to FC? Is that project over?
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Wait what happened to FC? Is that project over?
No, but I'm guessing TheGreatPretender wasn't a fan of Second Nature based on the comment that they're "dead in the water anyway".
I, for one, loved the album, and it sits high with Kaleidoscope as two of my favorite albums of the year, both with Mike Portnoy (and Neal Morse) on them. His drumming might be a bit same-y, but good-same is still good. He hasn't gotten WORSE, by no means, but he still has the same power as he always has. I doubt he'll slow down and turn into Alan White anytime soon.
-Marc.
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Second Nature and Kaleidoscope are completely opposite for me. I've really warmed up to Second Nature and rate it as highly as the debut now, and Peaceful Harbour might just be the best thing the band has done. Kaleidoscope on the other hand didn't make a great first impression, and it hasn't really improved at all since then. Very disappointed.
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Wait what happened to FC? Is that project over?
No, but I'm guessing TheGreatPretender wasn't a fan of Second Nature based on the comment that they're "dead in the water anyway".
I actually haven't heard it... Sorry, I misread Rumbroak's comment about them killing it. I thought he meant they killed the project. Kaleidoscope didn't impress me though. Was the follow up particularly different?
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There's some good stuff on that album. It's nowhere near as special as the debut, which makes me less enthusiastic about the project as a whole, but there's some good stuff there. I love Cosmic Symphony and Lost Without You is good too. It's good, but a little too Transatlantic-lite for my tastes. Open Your Eyes might be the worst song they've recorded. Talk about a rickety start to the album.
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My thoughts on Kaleidoscope have more or less been consistent since its release, though its initial luster has worn off somewhat. It's one of the weaker Transatlantic releases, but the two epics it offers are still enjoyable.
Second Nature is a bit of the same story. I didn't come out of it loving it or anything, but thought it was an overall decent effort. Peaceful Harbor might be the best thing they've put out yet, but a lot of the songs towards the middle of it just fall flat for me.
Open Your Eyes might be the worst song they've recorded. Talk about a rickety start to the album.
wut
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Second Nature is an excellent album - the opening track doesn't interest me much but after that it's really great and continues on the great stuff from the first album.
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Second Nature is an excellent album - the opening track doesn't interest me much but after that it's really great and continues on the great stuff from the first album.
This, it's nothing like Transatlantic (except MAYBE for the first track), I dunno how anyone could say that.
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Yeah, my comment was meant to mean "they changed direction of the project so much that I'm not too interested anymore". There was something very different and distinct about the debut album, but the sequel can mostly only be enjoyed if you like TA's and Morse's current output.
Either way, back on topic, I guess he bridged some time and revenue with the Metal Allegiance thing, which I'm of course totally not interested in. And I haven't really hard of anything new in the works by him.
EDIT: Come on Hef. The first track is total TA/Morse attack. At the very least, it has *nothing* to do with what the debut album was.
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SN is proggier but they still have the essence of the pop qualities and great hooks in this album. I love the harmonies. I miss that in some of the newer music I've been listening to.
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EDIT: Come on Hef. The first track is total TA/Morse attack. At the very least, it has *nothing* to do with what the debut album was.
Yeah but that's only the first track. There is PLENTY of music over the rest of the album, none of which is even remotely like TA.
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Even if the rest isn't exactly TA sounding, it's still waaaaaaaaay more prog than pop sounding, which I think Rumby is really trying to get at.
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EDIT: Come on Hef. The first track is total TA/Morse attack. At the very least, it has *nothing* to do with what the debut album was.
Yeah but that's only the first track. There is PLENTY of music over the rest of the album, none of which is even remotely like TA.
"Only" the first track, which is 12 minutes long. And it's not as if it stops there really. Neal digs out several of his tired TA/SB patches and applies them totally inappropriately across the album.
I mean, as I said, it's their project, they can do whatever they want with it. To me it's just a shame that they couldn't stick to the special thing they had, and rather morphed it into yet another TA/Morse clone.
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In terms of keyboard sounds, NM's patches are all over the first album as well. As I said at the time when Second Nature came out, I get the feeling you (and others) have been put off by the opening track and it's soured your view of the whole album. Honestly, when I listen to the album, I usually skip the first track.
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Nah. I'm listening to it just now again, and A Place In Your World just came on. How is that, other than the chorus, not just a NM solo song he plugged in?
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Yeah a bit, sure, but no more so than songs like The Storm and Infinite Fire (and to some extent Better Than Walking Away which sounds very NM to me). NM is one of the band so of course some of the music will sound like he wrote it. I'm not saying you can't hear NM's influence, I'm just pointing out that it was there on the first album as well. The only real difference is Open Up Your Eyes, which I completely agree with you about.
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Thing is, it's really hard for me to tell how much, as you say yourself, the horrendous positioning of the opening track has soured my perception of the album. On the debut album they had the wisdom (or sheer luck) to put the prog epic at the very end. I have no idea what complete lack of understanding how people perceived the first album made them put the track right at the start.
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EDIT: Come on Hef. The first track is total TA/Morse attack. At the very least, it has *nothing* to do with what the debut album was.
Yeah but that's only the first track. There is PLENTY of music over the rest of the album, none of which is even remotely like TA.
"Only" the first track, which is 12 minutes long. And it's not as if it stops there really. Neal digs out several of his tired TA/SB patches and applies them totally inappropriately across the album.
I mean, as I said, it's their project, they can do whatever they want with it. To me it's just a shame that they couldn't stick to the special thing they had, and rather morphed it into yet another TA/Morse clone.
You're listening with different ears than I am. I hear NM touches here and there, but no way is this a TA/Morse clone. If anything, there is a freshness and differentness about this that I think NM could use in his solo stuff. I mean, neither TA nor NM would produce anything like, well, any of the last 3 tracks, for sure.
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Thing is, it's really hard for me to tell how much, as you say yourself, the horrendous positioning of the opening track has soured my perception of the album. On the debut album they had the wisdom (or sheer luck) to put the prog epic at the very end. I have no idea what complete lack of understanding how people perceived the first album made them put the track right at the start.
I have the same feeling towards the 1st track. Totally kills the mood for the album...When I skip it, I enjoy the album more and can say that the rest of the album is excellent.
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I have no idea what complete lack of understanding how people perceived the first album made them put the track right at the start.
Yeah I definitely agree on that front. I like the rest of the album so much that I can easily look past (and often ignore) that song though, and excluding it still leaves 54 minutes which is easily a full-length album. :lol
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rumbo, I think you are just stubbornly sticking by your stance. There are no such things as SB or TA patches; those are Neal Morse patches!! And you should expect to hear them at some point on just about any album he does.
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Actually, I am more annoyed with Steve Morse using the same guitar he uses on DP albums. Flying Colors just feels like such a DP knockoff that I cannot possibly enjoy them because of it. And I hear him using a lot of the same chords as well. Hate that.
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Steve Morse era Deep Purple is pretty poor, but it's still 10 times better than that first Flying Colors album.
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I had high hopes for Flying Colors, but not so much anymore. The first album was "nice" compared to other things Mike was doing, but a bit bland. But the 2nd album is just an awful mess. "Too many cooks".
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Steve Morse era Deep Purple is pretty poor, but it's still 10 times better than that first Flying Colors album.
For me, all of Purpendicular and selected songs from their other albums with Morse are great.
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So MP, Alex Skolnick and Dave Ellefson from Megadeth all twitted the exact same message this week, about working on a special project. Megadeth has no drummer or guitar player at the moment. Could it be that they will end up with their best lineup ever, this late into their career?
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So MP, Alex Skolnick and Dave Ellefson from Megadeth all twitted the exact same message this week, about working on a special project. Megadeth has no drummer or guitar player at the moment. Could it be that they will end up with their best lineup ever, this late into their career?
Yes please. Yes. Please. Yesplease. Yuplz.
Although I feel like if it was just them joining Megadeth, Ellefson wouldn't be tweeting about a special project. More about "exciting news" or something.
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It looks like a side project thing to me, although it would be awesome if it were about Megadeth. :metal
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Would MP really make Megadeth better? It's still Dave Mustaine's show and Mike Portnoy throwing in his well know fills doesn't really add all that much too me honestly.
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Would MP really make Megadeth better? It's still Dave Mustaine's show and Mike Portnoy throwing in his well know fills doesn't really add all that much too me honestly.
I don't know if it would make it better or not, but I do think that MP would be better off with (and deserves) something a bit more high profile like Megadeth, rather than all these small new bands he's been trying to start up.
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His only real main band right now is TWD imo. Everything else he does are basically side projects, including Transatlantic. He recently tweeted out links to Dog Camp 2015 with TWD and they're still planning on putting out another album and touring next year from what I've seen. Flying Colors did a really short tour for the new album and it seems like they're done too. So maybe he can do both TWD and Megadeth, or the side project is Megadeth but it's just that- a side project. One Album and maybe a little touring. Or it's something totally different lol
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Would MP really make Megadeth better?
MP in Megadeth? They can name the tour/album Countdown to Band Fight
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I think one drama queen (Mustaine) in that band is enough, no?
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The ensuing shitstorm when their egos collide and Portnoy blabbers about it on social media would be entertaining, though.
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The ensuing shitstorm when their egos collide and Portnoy blabbers about it on social media would be entertaining, though.
It'll be entertaining to see that's for sure.
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The ensuing shitstorm when their egos collide and Portnoy blabbers about it on social media would be entertaining, though.
Indeed.
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So MP, Alex Skolnick and Dave Ellefson from Megadeth all twitted the exact same message this week, about working on a special project. Megadeth has no drummer or guitar player at the moment. Could it be that they will end up with their best lineup ever, this late into their career?
I'm hoping for a project rather than Megadeth. That doesn't excite me so much.
There are songs on Second Nature I like more than the first album like One Love Forever, Peaceful Harbor and Cosmic Symphony and others I don't so while it's not as solid, it does have its moments. Totally different vibe from the first album though so I can understand why some may be put off by it.
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I love how every time a drummer spot opens up, whether or not he'd be appropriate for it or if it'd even fit his schedule, MP is DTF's first choice for the gig :lol
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:lol
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I love how every time a drummer spot opens up, whether or not he'd be appropriate for it or if it'd even fit his schedule, MP is DTF's first choice for the gig :lol
Some of us hope he finds a high profile gig. Egoes aside, I think he would fit in well with Megadeth´s music. He´s played with Ellefson before on a band called Hail!, so he wouldn´t be a total stranger to the other members.
AC/DC is likely to have an open spot for a drummer, but that would have NOTHING to do with MP, so I would never suggest he tried out for it. They should bring back Chris Slade IMO.
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I reckon Mickey Curry would be a good replacement in AC/DC.
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AC/DC is likely to have an open spot for a drummer, but that would have NOTHING to do with MP, so I would never suggest he tried out for it. They should bring back Chris Slade IMO.
They need to rescue Simon Wright from Tate's mess.
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AC/DC is likely to have an open spot for a drummer, but that would have NOTHING to do with MP, so I would never suggest he tried out for it. They should bring back Chris Slade IMO.
They need to rescue Simon Wright from Tate's mess.
I was just going to say EXACTLY this. I would rather see Wright than Slade.
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rumbo, I think you are just stubbornly sticking by your stance. There are no such things as SB or TA patches; those are Neal Morse patches!! And you should expect to hear them at some point on just about any album he does.
You must excuse me. I always forget that "prog" is the shortening of the word "stagnation".
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AC/DC is likely to have an open spot for a drummer, but that would have NOTHING to do with MP, so I would never suggest he tried out for it. They should bring back Chris Slade IMO.
They need to rescue Simon Wright from Tate's mess.
I was just going to say EXACTLY this. I would rather see Wright than Slade.
Simon Wright really turned himself into a damned good drummer.
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AC/DC is likely to have an open spot for a drummer, but that would have NOTHING to do with MP, so I would never suggest he tried out for it. They should bring back Chris Slade IMO.
They need to rescue Simon Wright from Tate's mess.
I was just going to say EXACTLY this. I would rather see Wright than Slade.
Simon Wright really turned himself into a damned good drummer.
He was actually always halfway decent. I think one of the reasons Fly on the Wall threw some AC/DC off is because Simon Wright was trying some very different grooves than what is typical for an AC/DC song....and I really don't think it went over very well.
Perfect example. Listen to JUST THE INTRO for Shake Your Foundations from Fly on the Wall...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gITW4HuPsBQ
Now listen to the exact same song when it was remixed and re-released just one year later on the Who Made Who album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEi3RGpr0ss
EDIT: Personally, I like the original better...but I like it *because* it's different...and because I'm a prog rock fan. But I still get why it didn't go over well.
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I think Mike Porntoy would be a good fit in Megadeth as long as he can handle being a hired gun once again. If MP wants to act as a creative force, I really don't see him coexisting with Mustaine, but Megadeth's music has always felt a little proggy to me, I think he'd be okay with MP as his drummer and actually would let him be quite creative. MP would respect the gig enough to jump at the chance and up with any eventual Mustaine crap.
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I think Mike Porntoy would be a good fit in Megadeth as long as he can handle being a hired gun once again. If MP wants to act as a creative force, I really don't see him coexisting with Mustaine, but Megadeth's music has always felt a little proggy to me, I think he'd be okay with MP as his drummer and actually would let him be quite creative. MP would respect the gig enough to jump at the chance and up with any eventual Mustaine crap.
Well, what about A7X? I mean, MP wanted to be a part of their band full time after quitting DT, and he seemed like he was okay with just being along for the ride, and not trying to take over the band or anything. So it's not like he's unable to do it.
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I think Mike Porntoy would be a good fit in Megadeth as long as he can handle being a hired gun once again. If MP wants to act as a creative force, I really don't see him coexisting with Mustaine, but Megadeth's music has always felt a little proggy to me, I think he'd be okay with MP as his drummer and actually would let him be quite creative. MP would respect the gig enough to jump at the chance and up with any eventual Mustaine crap.
Well, what about A7X? I mean, MP wanted to be a part of their band full time after quitting DT, and he seemed like he was okay with just being along for the ride, and not trying to take over the band or anything. So it's not like he's unable to do it.
How insensitive.
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:lol
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:rollin :rollin :rollin
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As long as he does not print it on a T-shirt, it is fine :lol
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If MP joins Megadeth I assume meet and greets are a no no.
"Did an M&G today. Everyone was wearing shirts from BEFORE I was in the band. Which all feature other drummers NOT ME. Thanks to whoever kindly didn't wear a Megadeth shirt : ) : ) : ) "
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Yeah, that would be an Abomination!
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I don't care much for Megadeth, but somehow I can totally see MP fitting into it. That said, having heard about Mustaine's ego, and knowing about MP's, I'm not sure there wouldn't be an ego implosion at some point.
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I don't care much for Megadeth, but somehow I can totally see MP fitting into it. That said, having heard about Mustaine's ego, and knowing about MP's, I'm not sure there wouldn't be an ego implosion at some point.
Yeah, but for a band that's been around longer than DT, I'm sure that MP would still be respectful enough to know his place, if he did get into it. I mean, ego or not, he's not a complete child. He knows what it's like to have "his baby" and I'm sure he'd understand that that's what Megadeth is for Mustaine.
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It'd be Portnoy's step baby.
Don't cross the crooked step!
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I don't think Mustaine or Portnoy would want such a thing. DM doesn't really want creative people around him, nor does he want the headstrong. However, the Mustaine, Ellefson, Skolnik, Portnoy thing as a one off project would be really damn cool. Just don't treat is as Megadath 18, or whatever it would be.
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However, the Mustaine, Ellefson, Skolnik, Portnoy thing as a one off project would be really damn cool.
Yes it would!
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I don't think Mustaine or Portnoy would want such a thing. DM doesn't really want creative people around him, nor does he want the headstrong. However, the Mustaine, Ellefson, Skolnik, Portnoy thing as a one off project would be really damn cool. Just don't treat is as Megadath Hangar 18, or whatever it would be.
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Yeah, MP night not want to join Megadeth. I think he would like to create "a Megadeth" though.
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Yeah, MP night not want to join Megadeth. I think he would like to create "a Megadeth" though.
I just can't imagine why he'd want to join A7X but not Megadeth.
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I just can't imagine why he'd want to join A7X but not Megadeth.
Because A7X is currently (back then more so) a bigger band than Megadeth?
Portnoy and Chris Poland would be pretty cool in Megadeth though. Even if it only lasted one album. Only if they revisted the Peace Sells to Rust in Peace vibe though.
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Yeah, MP night not want to join Megadeth. I think he would like to create "a Megadeth" though.
I just can't imagine why he'd want to join A7X but not Megadeth.
It's mainly cause The Revs' main influence in drumming is MP. Ax7 chose MP, to show their respect to fallen brother by having his inspiration to finish his parts and play The Revs written drum parts.
Honestly that's pretty great MP chose to do that.
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I could see MP joining in a limited capacity. For a tour and maybe even one album but if anybody thinks it would last longer than that, they're lying to themselves...and Jesus.
I do think its funny that MP always puts Megadeth in his yearly top ten whenever they have an album out. He never says anything about the album though. Every other band he can tell you exactly what he likes about it (It's Beatles meets Chumba Wumba meets Raffi meets Louis Armstrong) but with Megadeth its always, "Oh yeah, and I guess Megadeth"
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It's mainly cause The Revs' main influence in drumming is MP. Ax7 chose MP, to show their respect to fallen brother by having his inspiration to finish his parts and play The Revs written drum parts.
Honestly that's pretty great MP chose to do that.
Yeah, but once that was done, and once the tour was done, he actually wanted to join them full time.
Maybe Dave Mustaine should tell MP that Gar Samuelson saw MP as an inspiration. :lol
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MP posted this on FB:
I just layed down the most brutal drum performance of my career! Picture Angel Of Death meets Dyers Eve…I FINALLY have my metal outlet! \m/
- Which btw reminds me of how he hyped BCSL.
It's not The Winery Dogs (...) More info soon…. : )
The Megadeth speculation ensues... :corn
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Steve Morse era Deep Purple is pretty poor, but it's still 10 times better than that first Flying Colors album.
For me, all of Purpendicular and selected songs from their other albums with Morse are great.
Yep, plus Now What?! for me is like lighting in a bottle, an unexpected home run, one of Purple's best ever.
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That sound waaaaay too brutal to be Megadeth, although I'm having fun with this speculation and would actually like to see Mike in Megadeth. :metal
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I'm putting my money on the Ellefson/Skolnick project.
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Whatever it turns out to be, I'll be interested. Whatever Mike is usually in, if it's NEW, then I try to check it out. If he just sits in with a band, like Avenged Sevenfold or Big Elf, I don't really go for it unless I'm already familiar with the band. I like Mike, but I'm not a slave to all he does - I have to like the music of the band he joins if I want to check that out first.
Either way, if this is something with Ellefson and Skolnick, then I'll be slightly interested. I'm not much into thrash metal and traditional heavy metal, but if it sounds good, I might buy it.
-Marc.
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I am hoping it will be good. I liked what Mike did with A7X, so I picked up that album even though they are not a band I am normally into. He was a good fit for what they were doing on that album. Never liked any of the Adrenaline Mob stuff, so I skipped that. But Mike tends to do metal well, as do Ellefson and Skolnick, so I am hopeful if that is what it is.
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I am hoping it will be good. I liked what Mike did with A7X, so I picked up that album even though they are not a band I am normally into. He was a good fit for what they were doing on that album. Never liked any of the Adrenaline Mob stuff, so I skipped that. But Mike tends to do metal well, as do Ellefson and Skolnick, so I am hopeful if that is what it is.
Funny because I was the opposite. Well, I checked out AMob because the line-up sounded good, and I liked MP and RA, and the first album isn't bad. Not my typical cup-of-tea, but it's mildly enjoyable. I never checked out A7X since I was never much of a fan of them, so I never thought to check them out, even if MP was on their album. Same goes with Big Elf, although I hear a lot of good things about Big Elf.
I think my main problem with those 1-off album appearances is that he's just a guest member, and probably didn't have much to contribute musically (or lyrically) to the album, so I feel like it's just him drumming along. Somehow I feel like the music stands out better for me if I can get a sense of his creative input, especially since his drummer alone has become rather predictable over the years. If he can at least provide creative input on the music and/or lyrics, then I feel like it's truly an MP project and not just a guest-session.
-Marc.
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I think BigElf and Amob are the only projects/appearances I did not end up buying. To me, it just comes down to what I like, and I have liked what he has done in his other projects/appearances.
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I think BigElf and Amob are the only projects/appearances I did not end up buying. To me, it just comes down to what I like, and I have liked what he has done in his other projects/appearances.
:tup
Regardless of what this upcoming project is, I may or may not check it out, but I tend to pass up his heavier projects and album appearances, unless the line-up really intrigues me. Honestly, I wish he had made a studio album is PSMS, as they had a lot of talent and musical prowess.
Either way, it looks like MP will be busy this year with his "mystery project", a second Winery Dogs album, a tour for the new Neal Morse Band album, and probably more touring for the Winery Dogs.
-Marc.
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btw reminds me of how he hyped BCSL.
Hey everyone our new album is like all our best songs on one album ! !!! !! : ) : ) : )
... no mike it wasn't.
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A super-heavy project is likely not going to tickle my fancy.
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A super-heavy project is likely not going to tickle my fancy.
It will mine! :metal
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Am I getting the progressive death and/or thrash project I want from him?
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Am I getting the progressive death and/or thrash project I want from him?
Well, if it's progressive death, I'm out. If it's thrash, I'm in.
I'd be happy with progressive thrash! ;D
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A super-heavy project is likely not going to tickle my fancy.
It will mine! :metal
Reading your other posts on this subject matter, I get the impression that what most people around here would refer to as super-heavy would not be your cup of tea.
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Am I getting the progressive death and/or thrash project I want from him?
Well, if it's progressive death, I'm out. If it's thrash, I'm in.
Given how I view Opeth as progressive death metal, I would have no problems with that. I don't have high hopes though; MP seems to really like straightforward metal, so my guess is that's what it will be.
Sometimes I wonder when (or whether) he kinda lost interest in prog metal. He stopped practicing his craft, started introducing stuff like straight metal (ToT) and Muse into DT... It always struck me that for a long time MP tried to change DT to align now with his musical tastes, and when that didn't work out, he pulled the chute. And now that he's out, he can do all that music.
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Sometimes I wonder when (or whether) he kinda lost interest in prog metal. He stopped practicing his craft, started introducing stuff like straight metal (ToT) and Muse into DT... It always struck me that for a long time MP tried to change DT to align now with his musical tastes, and when that didn't work out, he pulled the chute. And now that he's out, he can do all that music.
There certainly seems to be an element of this.
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A super-heavy project is likely not going to tickle my fancy.
It will mine! :metal
Reading your other posts on this subject matter, I get the impression that what most people around here would refer to as super-heavy would not be your cup of tea.
As always with me, it would depend on the vocals.
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I'm putting my money on the Ellefson/Skolnick project.
I'd probably enjoy this given that I'm a Skolnick fan
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Sometimes I wonder when (or whether) he kinda lost interest in prog metal. He stopped practicing his craft, started introducing stuff like straight metal (ToT) and Muse into DT... It always struck me that for a long time MP tried to change DT to align now with his musical tastes, and when that didn't work out, he pulled the chute. And now that he's out, he can do all that music.
There certainly seems to be an element of this.
He doesn't seem to have much loyalty to genres of music or bands. If you look at his top albums they are all over the place which is a cool thing if you ask me (I actually just had two CDs come in the mail that are very opposite from each other: Air (french electronic mellow pop) and Halford). But he doesn't seem to stand by a band or genre once his phase of interest is over. For instance, he named two Public Enemy albums in his top 100 but appears to not give a shit about anything else they've done. I love Public Enemy and have every one of their albums. Some I like more than others but I am loyal to the group and will always buy whatever album they put out. Sometimes I am underwhelmed (New Whirl Odor) and sometimes I am blown away (How You Sell Soul to a Soulless People Who Sold Their Soul?) but I am always interested in what they do next.
His musical tastes are always changing so dramatically it has made his career sort of uninteresting to follow. It actually used to be one of the things I loved to follow about his career. I don't care much for The Who and I am not a huge Zeppelin fan but I bought those tribute albums just to discover new things about bands I only had a minor interest in. Now it just seems like he does stuff to check off his list.
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I think I would be more interested also if he was a highly versatile drummer who morphed into whatever style he plays in. I was listening to the new Neal Morse track the other day, and his drumming was just so predictable. Exactly the same sounds he's had for decades, same fills, even the stick twirl he does at the beginning of every single music video (or so it seems to me).
Like, I'm not saying he's phoning it in, but drumming seems to be an exercise in muscle memory for him a lot.
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I haven't listened to much post-DT Portnoy output but a month or two ago someone posted a Winery Dogs show or something and I decided i was going to force myself to listen to several songs. For many of those songs he used the same drum pattern. Thing is, it wasn't just a common drum pattern you might hear in any other band...it was one that I loved that MP had done for a few DT songs (and was very subtle) but now that it was for music that didn't interest me, it stood out terribly and seemed pretty uninspired.
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Pretty much expected. When a lot of rock musicians reach MP's age they get to a point where they stop being adventurous and sort of stick to their typical bag of tricks. Same thing happened to Neal Morse and has even happened to Petrucci. Though to JP's credit he had least tried to take influence from djent stuff on some of DT12.
Not that it's a good thing, but this is definitely not something unique to MP.
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I think I would be more interested also if he was a highly versatile drummer who morphed into whatever style he plays in. I was listening to the new Neal Morse track the other day, and his drumming was just so predictable. Exactly the same sounds he's had for decades, same fills, even the stick twirl he does at the beginning of every single music video (or so it seems to me).
Like, I'm not saying he's phoning it in, but drumming seems to be an exercise in muscle memory for him a lot.
This is largely a reason I don't really care for MP's drumming. It's impressive but it isn't really fresh.
Pretty much expected. When a lot of rock musicians reach MP's age they get to a point where they stop being adventurous and sort of stick to their typical bag of tricks. Same thing happened to Neal Morse and has even happened to Petrucci. Though to JP's credit he had least tried to take influence from djent stuff on some of DT12.
Not that it's a good thing, but this is definitely not something unique to MP.
I agree with this 100%, it's not just MP who does this.
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I think I would be more interested also if he was a highly versatile drummer who morphed into whatever style he plays in. I was listening to the new Neal Morse track the other day, and his drumming was just so predictable. Exactly the same sounds he's had for decades, same fills, even the stick twirl he does at the beginning of every single music video (or so it seems to me).
Like, I'm not saying he's phoning it in, but drumming seems to be an exercise in muscle memory for him a lot.
I think this is a fair statement.
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Pretty much expected. When a lot of rock musicians reach MP's age they get to a point where they stop being adventurous and sort of stick to their typical bag of tricks. Same thing happened to Neal Morse and has even happened to Petrucci.
To bring up the obvious comparison, when did Neil Peart relearn drumming? Was he still reasonably young?
EDIT: Just answered my own question. When he was 42.
EDIT2: Whoa, and took another set of lessons in 2007, when he was 55. But, I think that's also why Neil is in the upper echelon of drummers.
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In the early 90's Neil said he learned all he could on drums. In 1996 he admitted he was wrong.
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Pretty much expected. When a lot of rock musicians reach MP's age they get to a point where they stop being adventurous and sort of stick to their typical bag of tricks. Same thing happened to Neal Morse and has even happened to Petrucci.
To bring up the obvious comparison, when did Neil Peart relearn drumming? Was he still reasonably young?
EDIT: Just answered my own question. When he was 42.
EDIT2: Whoa, and took another set of lessons in 2007, when he was 55. But, I think that's also why Neil is in the upper echelon of drummers.
Yea Neil Peart is the obvious exception. Frankly I think he should be the standard though, not an exception. The popular attitude that you don't need to practice anymore when you reach a certain age is lame. Jordan Rudess is another who continues to push himself I think.
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Then why would I rather listen to 1978-1981 Neal Peart than anything he's done recently?
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Then why would I rather listen to 1978-1981 Neal Peart than anything he's done recently?
Just because he keeps learning doesn't mean you're automatically going to like his newer input more...
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Yeah, and you certainly can't fault the drumming for it. To me, a track like "Malignant Narcissism" runs drumming circles around MP.
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Then why would I rather listen to 1978-1981 Neal Peart than anything he's done recently?
Cuz you down swing.
Cuckoo baby.
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My impression was that working with Gruber helped Peart to learn restraint and how to appreciate the space in between the notes as much as the notes themselves. So not necessarily something that would enhance his technical abilities, but more a way of playing with more feel. He used to be an extremely tight player, which was fine but a bit robotic at times. These days he has more groove and plays looser.
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Which is something new for him to learn at the time. As a musician, you can always learn no matter where you are as a player.
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Exactly.
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Cuckoo baby.
(https://www.greektoysandbooks.com/catalog/images/Greek%20Toy%20Greek%20Fisher%20Price%20Cuckoo%20Clock.jpg)
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MP talks about the upcoming "full-on metal" album.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/mike_portnoy_on_his_new_project_this_album_is_really_kind_of_the_history_of_metal.html
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I'm not a metalhead at all so this is very likely to be uninteresting to me, I do wonder though how it will be received.
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Good luck to him. I hope it's good.
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I won't get my hopes up until I find out who's doing vox , but Skolnick/Portnoy is enough to get me following developments for sure.
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Sounds like something I might like if it is done well.
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Sounds like something I might like if it is done well.
With musicians of that caliber you would think it would be impossible to do poorly, but then again I'm not sure how many original riffs Skolnick has left in him.
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With musicians of that caliber you would think it would be impossible to do poorly, but then again I'm not sure how many original riffs Skolnick has left in him.
I can't see that being a problem.......he's a pretty prolific muso that always seems to have new ideas , good and bad. And in any case , the vast majority of the riffs in Testament were the work of Peterson.
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I think the only danger they could run into is that it would sound like a nostalgia act, or "too close for comfort", given MP's wording of "a history of metal act" and " 'Kill 'Em All' Metallica - so there's a good chunk that's very, very much like that". MP sometimes has a strange desire to recreate music of the bands he loves, even in original material.
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Like with every post DT MP project, I will check this out in the form of sound samples or youtube clips but like every post DT Mike Portnoy project I anticipate not being overly impressed.
I also noticed like every post DT MP project he has to give us a rundown of what types of bands this sounds like.
I always defended the inspiration corner or DT veering into territory where people accuse them of being a rip off of other bands but this is just to excessive.
I really don't need people to tell me this sounds like Slipknot meets Devo mixed with Madonna and MC Hammer. If its good, I'll listen to it. If not...well...I've saved an awful lot of money not buying stuff over the last 5 years.
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I won't get my hopes up until I find out who's doing vox , but Skolnick/Portnoy is enough to get me following developments for sure.
That's about where I am. The vocalist may be the tipping point for me. If it were instrumental, I'd already be 100 percent into this.
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Anyone see the latest from lol Portnoy?
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This last one was hard for me to watch. I'm one of the people who always tries to see it from his angle and cut him some slack whenever he has a PR nightmare, but this one was really really bad. The best I can give him is that I get being frustrated and not wanting to disappoint fans. Which does not in any way excuse indignation at not getting to cut the line at a hospital. If what I imagine will be the fallout from this does not convince him that he needs someone to help him with PR, I think nothing will.
Side note: When Mike says something like this on a Neal Morse tour, I can't imagine that it's good for Neal's PR either...
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Apparently someone who is a fan of MP and works at the hospital posted in the comments:
I'm a doctor that works at the Whittington hospital in london. I wasn't working in the a&e department tonight however I am sorry to hear of your plight. As much as I'd jump at the opportunity to help you if I actually was on call tonight, please try to understand. Us healthcare professionals don't want anyone to wait or suffer at all, however we encounter life threatening conditions every hour, sometimes every minute, that stop us from seeing others that may be slightly less unwell, as quickly as we'd like. The NHS is under-financed, understaffed, overworked. We do have to economise our resources.
With all the respect I have for you, it hurts when one of my idols insults an organisation I work very hard for. Waiting sucks, I know, but dying patients suck even more.
I sincerely hope you feel better and that the show goes well tonight. Gutted to be missing out due to a prior engagement. Rock on though, love the new Neal Morse album.
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Gotta love MP calling that guy an idiot for something that wasn't rude, and just him pointing out the obvious.
Mike's no Kanye, but if he can't see that he was in the wrong here, there is something very wrong with him.
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:wtf:
edit: incase people are wondering what's being discussed: https://lambgoat.com/blog/645/Mike-Portnoy-pissed-that-hospital-wouldnt-treat-him-like-someone-important
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Wow. Bad form all round.
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(https://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg)
I don't know what's worse, though, the post that started all of this or Mike Portnoy's replies to some of them. I also work in a hospital and this is just awful.
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It was hilarious (in a bad way) seeing him tell people he was banning them for shit that wouldn't even draw a verbal warning from most mods here.
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This last one was hard for me to watch. I'm one of the people who always tries to see it from his angle and cut him some slack whenever he has a PR nightmare, but this one was really really bad. The best I can give him is that I get being frustrated and not wanting to disappoint fans. Which does not in any way excuse indignation at not getting to cut the line at a hospital. If what I imagine will be the fallout from this does not convince him that he needs someone to help him with PR, I think nothing will.
Side note: When Mike says something like this on a Neal Morse tour, I can't imagine that it's good for Neal's PR either...
Very well said.
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His wife even started commenting on facebook.
I think it went really well. :|
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:wtf:
edit: incase people are wondering what's being discussed: https://lambgoat.com/blog/645/Mike-Portnoy-pissed-that-hospital-wouldnt-treat-him-like-someone-important
Just to point out that article is equally stupid. It's basically criticising MP for thinking he's important/famous enough when he isn't, which therefore still implies that it would be fine to bump important/famous people up the queue.
That's not how public healthcare works in the UK. The whole point of PUBLIC healthcare is that it is free and equal to all, and so priorities are entirely done by how much something is an emergency and the severity of the condition - who the person is is irrelevant. If you're rich, famous or important, you or your employer can pay for private healthcare and get seen straight away.
I can only assume that because MP and most of these websites reporting on it are American, they don't actually understand how healthcare works in the UK. As he's not British, he or his insurance will presumably have to pay anyway so I don't know why he went to clog up a public NHS hospital - he should have gone somewhere private.
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I didn't even read the article itself. I posted it only because it quoted MP's Facebook post and his subsequent replies (which I thought were important, which is why I didn't just link the Facebook post as they've been buried by masses of other comments already).
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Mike Portnoy can fuck off, this is just unreal.
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I can only assume that because MP and most of these websites reporting on it are American, they don't actually understand how healthcare works in the UK. As he's not British, he or his insurance will presumably have to pay anyway so I don't know why he went to clog up a public NHS hospital - he should have gone somewhere private.
Even here in America, if he went to any local ER, he would be seen in order of importance of illness/injury.
I would have thought that a tour like this would have a local private doctor "on call" for emergencies like this.
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I can only assume that because MP and most of these websites reporting on it are American, they don't actually understand how healthcare works in the UK. As he's not British, he or his insurance will presumably have to pay anyway so I don't know why he went to clog up a public NHS hospital - he should have gone somewhere private.
Even here in America, if he went to any local ER, he would be seen in order of importance of illness/injury.
I would have thought that a tour like this would have a local private doctor "on call" for emergencies like this.
I thought this is how ER's work, regardless of which country you're in.
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Reading this all now...good grief.
So, let me get this straight: he was too sick to even raise his arms, but those arms were apparently well enough to type out of a message on social media...that criticized people who work in a hospital saving lives...hours before playing a concert for his friend, who writes music about God and Jesus.
There is simply no defending these actions.
If what I imagine will be the fallout from this does not convince him that he needs someone to help him with PR, I think nothing will.
Considering what his wife posted about it on FB, it seems clear that those close to him enable his diva behavior, so I doubt he's gonna get it this time either.
I think he has now officially Axl Rose/Geoff Tate/Eddie Van Halen/Phil Anselmo territory.
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he was too sick to even raise his arms, but those arms were apparently well enough to type out of a message on social media
I don't think this is at all relevant - you only need to have one dexterous finger to be able to type something on your phone.
But I agree that there's no defending his behaviour.
However:
Mike Portnoy can fuck off, this is just unreal.
None of this, please. If you want to criticise someone for being disrespectful, at least be respectful yourself while doing so.
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Gonna say, even if he can't lift his arms, A&E won't see him faster than some because it's not major. It's still minor.
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I thought MP's original post was pretty bad, but his responses to the comments... :facepalm:
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I've said it before (and probably in this thread) but someone just needs to take MP's hands off the social media tools the world has. He simply doesn't use them very well and never comes off the way he intends to, resulting in a lot of people just shaking their heads and saying "Dammit, Mike."
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Well, social media often results in many people unwittingly outing their true selves. Take that for what it's worth.
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Lol Portnoy.
He used to be my favourite member of the band and I wanted his DVDs until he quit the band and he revealed his true colours.
Mangini 100% deserves to be in the band. He knows he's really blessed to be in a band like Dream Theater and he doesn't take it for granted AT ALL.
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I saw the post he made last night and was honestly glad that most of the comments were people just honestly telling him how hospitals work, rather than encouraging his behavior. I try to take the man's posts in stride, but he was just flat out wrong on this one, show to play or not.
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regardless of telling them that there is an audience waiting for our show to begin
:facepalm:
Cringetacular. That would make me want to serve him that much less.
Hospital order:
1. The truly dying
2. Not dying but in risk of irreversible damage
...
20. The mother that has to pick up her kid from school
....
76. The man with the sniffles
...
99. The kid with tickets to tonight's Neal Morse concert
100. The drummer at tonight's Neal Morse concert
I do kind of wonder how different the response would have been if he never left Dream Theater and this was a DT gig he was missing.
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I do kind of wonder how different the response would have been if he never left Dream Theater and this was a DT gig he was missing.
It's not uncommon for a big touring band to have a doctor or a medic on board for the tour, or at the very least available on the various locations. I think with Dream Theater, this would never have happened, as they have the means to be able to afford stuff like that. I don't think The Neal Morse Band can afford to have a doctor travel along as well. So, I don't think it ever could have happened had he still been in DT.
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(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v394/kevshmev/addtext_com_MDkzMTUxMzQ0ODg_zpsshsrxmd0.jpg)
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Cool video from the show last night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqCS8-DTLSw
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Bringing out this classic again :biggrin:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10426214_1596276383962537_6939080988034504124_n.jpg?oh=564004dbc1177a90983c0a1f7088815a&oe=5575FD7E&__gda__=1435052865_346bd491f84935aee64323d38768c0ed)
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He surely crossed the crooked step. :P
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He's failed this PR debacle with flying colors since he hobviously has no remorse about it.
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My favorite comment so far:
(https://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Metropolaris/Screen%20Shot%202015-03-08%20at%2011.58.57%20AM_zpsi8vmqhaw.png) (https://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Metropolaris/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-03-08%20at%2011.58.57%20AM_zpsi8vmqhaw.png.html)
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Given how I totally am no longer invested in any of his musical output, I find all this highly amusing.
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Reading this all now...good grief.
So, let me get this straight: he was too sick to even raise his arms, but those arms were apparently well enough to type out of a message on social media...that criticized people who work in a hospital saving lives...hours before playing a concert for his friend, who writes music about God and Jesus.
There is simply no defending these actions.
If what I imagine will be the fallout from this does not convince him that he needs someone to help him with PR, I think nothing will.
Considering what his wife posted about it on FB, it seems clear that those close to him enable his diva behavior, so I doubt he's gonna get it this time either.
I think he has now officially Axl Rose/Geoff Tate/Eddie Van Halen/Phil Anselmo territory.
Mike Portnoy is a royal cunt, but I just want to point out that Phil Anselmo has really turned himself around and is one of the coolest dudes in metal these days.
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What if he was really sick, guys? After all, he just wanted to perform for the fans. And to see the fans being negative basically towards him being afraid that he won't be able to perform for them, well, it must have been hard. But yeah, Mike has been around social media for a while, he knows his honesty will lead to angry comments.
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Mike Portnoy is a royal cunt, but I just want to point out that Phil Anselmo has really turned himself around and is one of the coolest dudes in metal these days.
Can you not read?
None of this, please. If you want to criticise someone for being disrespectful, at least be respectful yourself while doing so.
Next post like that will see a ban.
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What if he was really sick, guys? After all, he just wanted to perform for the fans. And to see the fans being negative basically towards him being afraid that he won't be able to perform for them, well, it must have been hard. But yeah, Mike has been around social media for a while, he knows his honesty will lead to angry comments.
I'm sure he is. And I'm sure his lack of judgment came from being extremely sick, tired and frustrated beyond belief. I've done it. I'm sure we all have.
That doesn't mean he doesn't owe the hospital a big apology.
If I'm sick, and I act like a prick because I'm not feeling well, I fess up and apologize.
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Yes, but when you're a public figure, it doesn't matter how sick you are. You don't act like a spoiled brat, badmouthing another country's hospital because they wouldn't put you to the front of the line because you had to play a show for your fans, ESPECIALLY if you're over 40 years old. What kind of example is that setting?
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I'm not defending his behavior, but I also hate this "public figure" metality. He's a human being with a job. I don't buy that "public figures" are somehow supposed to be better than human.
He's an imperfect person who got ticked off and screwed up. He needs to apologize.
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I would think British emergency room doctors have a DAMN good idea how sick a person is. If MP wasn´t prioritized, he simply wasn´t sick enough to warrant it.
Also, believe it or not, some people send follow-up posts to questionable posts of theirs, relativizing their previous outburst ("sorry guys, and I apologize, this was in the heat of the moment."
I believe the only follow-up post MP did was telling a poster "Keep it coming, and you can see how fast I ban you."
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I would think British emergency room doctors have a DAMN good idea how sick a person is. If MP wasn´t prioritized, he simply wasn´t sick enough to warrant it.
Also, believe it or not, some people send follow-up posts to questionable posts of theirs, relativizing their previous outburst ("sorry guys, and I apologize, this was in the heat of the moment."
I believe the only follow-up post MP did was telling a poster "Keep it coming, and you can see how fast I ban you."
You forgot, "show everyone how much of an idiot you are".
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I'm not defending his behavior, but I also hate this "public figure" metality. He's a human being with a job. I don't buy that "public figures" are somehow supposed to be better than human.
He's an imperfect person who got ticked off and screwed up. He needs to apologize.
Completely agreed on all counts. The fact that he's a public figure is entirely irrelevant, which is surely the point here anyway!
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Either way, he should know better by now.
He's just destroying his image even further. I actually just replaced his signed poster on my wall.
My new poster:
(https://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2011/080/1/e/dinobot___hope___poster_v2_0_by_itswalky-d3c5rxs.jpg)
Fits more with the rest of my room anyway. Nerd Central.
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Who knows, maybe this was one of those painful moments in one's career where you realize "my current status is a shadow of its former self". Like, yeah, when in DT, a moment like this would have been resolved by management and the flow of sufficient money. Now he found himself being put to the back of the line like every Joe Shmoe who feels sick.
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His apology:
(https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k34/Zook85/portnoylol.jpg) (https://s84.photobucket.com/user/Zook85/media/portnoylol.jpg.html)
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Funny to post a slogan like that when he's touring with an uber-Christian. The above sentiment is the violent opposite to Jesus' teachings.
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Who knows, maybe this was one of those painful moments in one's career where you realize "my current status is a shadow of its former self". Like, yeah, when in DT, a moment like this would have been resolved by management and the flow of sufficient money. Now he found himself being put to the back of the line like every Joe Shmoe who feels sick.
But did he really need that much label support? I don't gather MP is gonna show up on some Robin Leech program or anything, but surely the guy could write a check to a private doctor somewhere. Granted I'm not familiar with UK healthcare, but isn't it possible to see a private doctor on your own dime? Hell, I'd expect the venue to actually have the number of one on hand. It's not like he needs a surgeon as part of the tour staff.
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regardless of telling them that there is an audience waiting for our show to begin
:facepalm:
Cringetacular. That would make me want to serve him that much less.
Hospital order:
1. The truly dying
2. Not dying but in risk of irreversible damage
...
20. The mother that has to pick up her kid from school
....
76. The man with the sniffles
...
99. The kid with tickets to tonight's Neal Morse concert
100. The drummer at tonight's Neal Morse concert
:rollin
I'm not defending his behavior, but I also hate this "public figure" metality. He's a human being with a job. I don't buy that "public figures" are somehow supposed to be better than human.
Well, if some dude that works on Starbucks bitches on facebook to his 350 facebook friends, it is going to have a much different impact than a popular musician bitching to his 1.3 million fans. Nobody (well, most people) are pissed that he was upset that he was sick and didn't get treated right away. They are pissed that he said something stupid and then doubled down instead of walking back. Nobody is saying he should be a better human being but he should definitely be better at understanding the impact his words have.
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Who knows, maybe this was one of those painful moments in one's career where you realize "my current status is a shadow of its former self". Like, yeah, when in DT, a moment like this would have been resolved by management and the flow of sufficient money. Now he found himself being put to the back of the line like every Joe Shmoe who feels sick.
But did he really need that much label support? I don't gather MP is gonna show up on some Robin Leech program or anything, but surely the guy could write a check to a private doctor somewhere. Granted I'm not familiar with UK healthcare, but isn't it possible to see a private doctor on your own dime? Hell, I'd expect the venue to actually have the number of one on hand. It's not like he needs a surgeon as part of the tour staff.
Well, the fact that he had to "resort" to the measly front entrance of the building seems to indicate that he either doesn't have to funds or the connections to cut the line.
To my understanding, Neal's concerts are sorta club concerts. That's the "sustainable" level of musicianship, but you're barely breaking even. Meaning, MP will likely not walk away with a lot of money from this, and management is probably mostly Neal himself.
So, when MP felt sick in DT, it was probably somebody like Frank Solomon making calls and doing the bribes to get him to a doctor. With Neal's band it's probably "dude, google for the nearest hospital. You got travel insurance, right?"
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^ That sums it up nicely I suppose.
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Who knows, maybe this was one of those painful moments in one's career where you realize "my current status is a shadow of its former self". Like, yeah, when in DT, a moment like this would have been resolved by management and the flow of sufficient money. Now he found himself being put to the back of the line like every Joe Shmoe who feels sick.
But did he really need that much label support? I don't gather MP is gonna show up on some Robin Leech program or anything, but surely the guy could write a check to a private doctor somewhere. Granted I'm not familiar with UK healthcare, but isn't it possible to see a private doctor on your own dime? Hell, I'd expect the venue to actually have the number of one on hand. It's not like he needs a surgeon as part of the tour staff.
Well, the fact that he had to "resort" to the measly front entrance of the building seems to indicate that he either doesn't have to funds or the connections to cut the line.
To my understanding, Neal's concerts are sorta club concerts. That's the "sustainable" level of musicianship, but you're barely breaking even. Meaning, MP will likely not walk away with a lot of money from this, and management is probably mostly Neal himself.
So, when MP felt sick in DT, it was probably somebody like Frank Solomon making calls and doing the bribes to get him to a doctor. With Neal's band it's probably "dude, google for the nearest hospital. You got travel insurance, right?"
I'm not sure it was a matter of having to "resort" to the ER. Quite possibly a matter of just not knowing any better. I'm willing to bet that MP has a better credit card than I do, and if I'm in his situation I call the 800 number on the back of my Citibank card and they'll hook me up with urgent care. Those sorts of perks just aren't all that hard to access, but often times people fail to consider them.
Moreover, I don't think we're talking about a tremendous amount of resource requirement, either. I'll assume that Doc in the Boxes aren't commonplace outside of the US, but even still I'm thinking their are hospitalists and other docs who see people 24/7, and it's still going to be covered by your traveler's insurance (if that's even required in the UK). Also, I'd be surprised if Morse's tour didn't have traveler's insurance for the band and crew; seems like it'd be a requirement, honestly.
edit: a google search for "london urgent care centres" suggests that the Brits are fully on board with the Doc in the Box concept.
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Funny to post a slogan like that when he's touring with an uber-Christian. The above sentiment is the violent opposite to Jesus' teachings.
Yeah, this only increases my curiosity to know where Neal is in all this. I don't know much about him as a lot of people here, but I know he and Mike are good friends and he just seems to be the type of person who would gently notify a friend that he's acting very inappropriately in a situation like this. That is, if he even knows about the Facebook posts.
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And by the way, while it's fun as hell to point out what a dope he can be sometimes, I certainly hope the guy's alright. Hasn't been much discussion about the fact that he might be quite ill. Sounds like the flu to me, but you never can tell. Foolishness aside, I'm still quite fond of the dude.
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And by the way, while it's fun as hell to point out what a dope he can be sometimes, I certainly hope the guy's alright. Hasn't been much discussion about the fact that he might be quite ill. Sounds like the flu to me, but you never can tell. Foolishness aside, I'm still quite fond of the dude.
He's fine. He played a show last night.
But seriously, yeah....hope he's alright.
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And by the way, while it's fun as hell to point out what a dope he can be sometimes, I certainly hope the guy's alright. Hasn't been much discussion about the fact that he might be quite ill. Sounds like the flu to me, but you never can tell. Foolishness aside, I'm still quite fond of the dude.
Yeah, I just thought about that after taking a look at what his wife put on Facebook. It does sound like he went through a lot and was focused the whole time on how it would affect the fans. The guy really does care a lot, and I think he deserves credit for that. I do hope he's okay. And I'm definitely still his fan. I just think he needs to be more careful about what he expresses online.
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Sometimes shit happens and you have to cancel a show. His passion and caring is understandable, but it can't justify his attitude. I can't imagine what would happen if Mike was so sick he couldn't perform at all, and Neal had a spare drummer who knew the songs, or he decided to do an acoustic show without drums.
I hope he gets well too, but GOD DAMN IT, MIKE!
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Funny to post a slogan like that when he's touring with an uber-Christian. The above sentiment is the violent opposite to Jesus' teachings.
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What did Marlene post, can someone paste it?
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Some of you people are just so HORRIBLE! He didn't ask for special treatment because he is famous, his concern was the FANS that paid good money to see a concert that was about to get canceled! He had already spent most of the day just trying to get seen by a doctor, was looked at by the parimedics who told him to go to the hospital and on the way the ambulance actually ran out of gas, YES, RAN OUT OF GAS, leaving him stranded and having to try to get transportation to the hospital, only to sit and wait for an endless amount of time, missing the meet and greet, that again, fans paid a lots of money for! So when he asked if anyone even a nurse could just look at him for 2 minutes or just prescribe him an antibiotic because there was a venue full of people that were waiting for a concert, and you all call him a crybaby , or accuse him of expecting special treatment. REALLY!!! What is wrong with you people. How can you be so horrible and so mean. All he told me all day is how upset he was for the fans and how unfair it was for them to be stuck waiting. He was told he had to wait several more hours before anyone could look at him. Does this hospital only have 1 doctor? The concert would have been cancelled and at that point there is no possible way to call in a replacement so he left played a show with 102 fever to not let down the fans, spent a day of hell just trying to be seen by a doctor or anyone that could help him, while being in another country where he isn't even from and this is your response!!!! WHAT IS WORNG WITH ALL OF YOU. You are just horrible, disgusting people who love to twist the truth so you can say mean and nasty thing about other people! this is a disgrace :(
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I can see Marlene's point...and Mike had every right to be upset about the situation...and I never advocated the behavior of those who were being just downright rude. In fact, I defended the fact that Mike was just upset, sick and frustrated...
...but at the end of it all, *HE CALLED OUT THE HOSPITAL*... And let me *re*state that I may have done the same thing in the same situation. But I would have owed the hospital an apology because it wasn't their fault. Everyone has crappy days...even hospitals.
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She posted a ton more. Too much effort for me to copy and paste but it was at the very beginning of the fiasco so just look for some of the oldest posts on the facebook thread. I think it was all in response to the guy that worked at the hospital in question and basically said, "hey dude, thats not fair"
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Mike Portnoy is a royal cunt, but I just want to point out that Phil Anselmo has really turned himself around and is one of the coolest dudes in metal these days.
Can you not read?
None of this, please. If you want to criticise someone for being disrespectful, at least be respectful yourself while doing so.
Next post like that will see a ban.
What? I thought Phil Anselmo would appreciate someone having his back. :P
Really though, nobody minds when we all jump on Tate, why does Mike Portnoy get some magical pass? He's not even in the band anymore and who cares if he lurks, if he wants to reply and call me a doody face he's more than welcome to.
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This is really sad to watch. The guy never seems to learn from past rants and the like but then again I'm not quite sure he even realizes how he comes across. He always seems genuinely surprised when someone calls him out when he crosses the line. That image above seems to nicely sum up how he views himself.
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His apology:
(https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k34/Zook85/portnoylol.jpg) (https://s84.photobucket.com/user/Zook85/media/portnoylol.jpg.html)
:facepalm:
I'm not defending his behavior, but I also hate this "public figure" metality. He's a human being with a job. I don't buy that "public figures" are somehow supposed to be better than human.
He's an imperfect person who got ticked off and screwed up. He needs to apologize.
That's not his M.O. If this were an isolated incident, it would be easy to say, "Yeah, the guy was just sick and had a bad moment," but he's had way too many hissy fits/meltdowns/drama sessions over the years to get passes anymore. Him acting the way he did yesterday is just who he is. That is more than obvious at this point in time.
Funny to post a slogan like that when he's touring with an uber-Christian. The above sentiment is the violent opposite to Jesus' teachings.
So true. Makes you wonder if Neal has his head buried in the sand when it comes to his buddy. Granted, we all can have blind spots when it comes to family and close friends...Neal clearly has one when it comes to him.
This is really sad to watch. The guy never seems to learn from past rants and the like but then again I'm not quite sure he even realizes how he comes across. He always seems genuinely surprised when someone calls him out when he crosses the line. That image above seems to nicely sum up how he views himself.
He's got a serious case of martyrdom.
"I just want the fans to be happy."
Yeah, and apparently that end justifies the means of him acting like a child. How many times has he played the victim over the years now?
I have no doubt that he does want to make the fans happy, but that is still no excuse to act the way he does at times. It's crazy that someone who clearly has such good intentions is so insecure that he has to play the victim every time he doesn't get his way.
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Why does this shock anyone on this forum when he does this stuff. I just brush it off. I know it's coming.
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He's just so willing to throw anybody and everybody under the bus when his designs don't pan out. That can be JLB, it can be hospital workers, even his own fans. If they don't accommodate his whims, they're considered collateral damage.
Also, random comment: yay for the British nurses/docs not giving him antibiotics willy-nilly.
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Great read all around. All I can say concerning MP is that maybe he should do some more stepwork with his sponsor, he needs it, badly.
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I can see Marlene's point...and Mike had every right to be upset about the situation...and I never advocated the behavior of those who were being just downright rude. In fact, I defended the fact that Mike was just upset, sick and frustrated...
...but at the end of it all, *HE CALLED OUT THE HOSPITAL*... And let me *re*state that I may have done the same thing in the same situation. But I would have owed the hospital an apology because it wasn't their fault. Everyone has crappy days...even hospitals.
I agree entirely. You and I seem to have a similar perspective on this particular incident. I think we're saying a lot of similar things.
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I think it's sad that not even Marlene can strike a middle ground there. Yes, how dare people defend health care workers doing their jobs correctly in the face of an American has-been (yes, I went there) artist?
And how dare we not see that him running out of gas was an act of God he had no control over?
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Well, spouses should have each others' backs in public, but I think saying nothing would have better here than saying what she said, although I am sure seeing your husband criticized the way he was when he is far away from home and very sick, however deserving it was, was distressing. That said, that is why some people simply should stay away from social media.
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BTW, I know MP didn't elaborate on his exact sickness, but to me the phrases "can barely lift my arm" and "tried to get antibiotics" doesn't sound like a metabolic illness, but rather an inflammation of his drumming arm.
EDIT: Unless he is one of those people who wants an antibiotic for a flu or a cold. Which frankly wouldn't surprise me. MP isn't exactly the bookish kind.
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He should be happy he's the one guy in that band who gets to sit down for pretty much the entire show. :lol :lol
Jokes aside, it does suck to work when you are sick, especially when you can't call in sick. I used to have a boss who was of the "I never call in sick" variety, and he kind of expected everyone else to act the same way, and if you dared call in, you got a major guilt trip more often than not. Granted, I don't call in sick to work unless I have the stomach flu or something awful like that. I know some who the minute their allergies act up, they are looking to not work, but meh, you gotta suck it up and fight through that.
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BTW, I know MP didn't elaborate on his exact sickness, but to me the phrases "can barely lift my arm" and "tried to get antibiotics" doesn't sound like a metabolic illness, but rather an inflammation of his drumming arm.
To me it sounded like it was a really bad case of the flu
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If he wants an antibiotic for a flu or a cold, then even more yay for the Brits dumping him at the end of the line. Believe it or not, ER doctors and nurses have better shit to do than educate divas about the most basic biological facts.
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Honestly, if it was just the flu, playing the show probably helped, since he probably sweated a lot of it out. Seriously. I remember one NYE like 15 years ago when I was really sick the day of, but a bunch of us had big plans to go out that night, and I forced myself to go, and after a night of some drinking and clubbing and sweating like a pig, I felt much better. :lol :lol
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If he wants an antibiotic for a flu or a cold, then even more yay for the Brits dumping him at the end of the line. Believe it or not, ER doctors and nurses have better shit to do than educate divas about the most basic biological facts.
Basically this.
NHS hospitals are stretched to breaking point at the moment, it's been in the news constantly. Here's the most recent BBC article about a couple of particular hospitals, but basically it's all been like this recently: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31728432
And El Barto is right that there are private doctors and private hospitals around. If he'd been in some small town then maybe it would have been harder to find one, but he was in London and was taken to a hospital in Islington for Pete's sake, there will have been plenty of private options around.
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If he wants an antibiotic for a flu or a cold, then even more yay for the Brits dumping him at the end of the line. Believe it or not, ER doctors and nurses have better shit to do than educate divas about the most basic biological facts.
I thought flu, as well. I think there was a 102 fever in there some where, and I also thought it was "couldn't stand or lift my armS." If so I reckon the ER doc's best treatment would have been the instructions to go home and "don't play drums like you're the metal God for 3 hours straight," which he would have most certainly disregarded. :lol Like I said before, a private doc might well have given him some fluids and a B12 shot which would have at least made him feel better and kept him going for the night.
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My girlfriend has been an er nurse for over six years and she says people come in all the time with fevers and they think they need to be seen immediately and if not they freak out. Usually they are sick and frustrated but it happens all the time and patients like the threaten her job l the time unless she serves right away.
If Mike had an issue with his quality or lack of care I'm sure he could've called the hospital and voiced his concern, posting online makes him look bad.
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Having seen some of Marlene's comments, it seems she said that they have to get some special and fairly expensive health insurance package as he travels all over the world. So I'm even more confident in reiterating what I said before: if you're paying either way then go to a private hospital! If you go to an NHS hospital then you wait in line with everyone else and it could very well be hours.
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I'm not defending his behavior, but I also hate this "public figure" metality. He's a human being with a job. I don't buy that "public figures" are somehow supposed to be better than human.
He's an imperfect person who got ticked off and screwed up. He needs to apologize.
Completely agreed on all counts. The fact that he's a public figure is entirely irrelevant, which is surely the point here anyway!
That was my initial thought as well. MP is just another flawed human. But it could also mean that public figures get far more practice in maintaining a social image than the non-public person that you would think they get "X" amount of stupid, human outbursts before they, like Pavlov's dog, figure out what is coming next and decide against it (reverse Pavlov)
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Sometimes shit happens and you have to cancel a show. His passion and caring is understandable, but it can't justify his attitude. I can't imagine what would happen if Mike was so sick he couldn't perform at all, and Neal had a spare drummer who knew the songs, or he decided to do an acoustic show without drums.
I hope he gets well too, but GOD DAMN IT, MIKE!
I had thought of that as well. That he went into the tweet thinking "I have to let the fans know what is up so they don't think I'm just half assing it out there tonight. It would be kind of sh*tty of me not to keep them informed."
But then it fell apart. An example of a PR way to handle that situation:
"Sorry guys. Sometimes your body just lets you down and no matter how strong your will is, you are still human and a bad flu virus takes you down."
(Although I can see the "he's fallen off the wagon" posts from that)
Instead of him saying his body let him down, he found a scapegoat to unload on. A human thing to do, but one of those human traits you try to not let get the best of you.
And now that I've thoroughly criticized MP for going on a tirade, I can continue with my own embarrassing tirades. If I had followers, they'd call me out on it.
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He should be happy he's the one guy in that band who gets to sit down for pretty much the entire show. :lol :lol
Jokes aside, it does suck to work when you are sick, especially when you can't call in sick. I used to have a boss who was of the "I never call in sick" variety, and he kind of expected everyone else to act the same way, and if you dared call in, you got a major guilt trip more often than not. Granted, I don't call in sick to work unless I have the stomach flu or something awful like that. I know some who the minute their allergies act up, they are looking to not work, but meh, you gotta suck it up and fight through that.
For a common sickness like the flu, I'm thinking about exposing other people more than how badly it is affecting me.
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Honestly, even a post like "I'm really frustrated that I never got to see a doctor at the hospital even after hours of waiting... However, I don't want to disappoint the fans, so I'll try my best to play tonight even though I can't lift my arms" would have been fine by me. It expresses the same frustration that his actual post did, but doesn't blame anyone working at the hospital for the problem. From what I've read it seems to be well known that at hospitals like this you often have to wait a while(?), and so I think even someone who works there would probably have a reaction like "I understand your frustration with the way the system works, it's frustrating for us too sometimes, sorry we didn't get to you." The problem came in when he actually blamed the employees of the hospital for not seeing him when that's something outside of their control.
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I do follow Neal on FB and twitter (I do not follow Portnoy), and he posted this a short time ago:
Regarding last night in London, the paramedics came around 6:00 and THEY said Mike should go to the hospital, loaded him in the ambulance (I got in with him). They ran vitals. Then, after some time the driver said they were too low on fuel and suggested alternate transport. Shocked and in a bit of a panic, I ran into the venue and asked if anyone had a car. We got a ride from a very kind fan and it took us 30 minutes because of traffic that the ambulance probably could've avoided. It was now about 7:15 and we were supposed to go on around 8:00. The women at emergency told us to sit and wait though we gave them the ambulance papers and told them the situation. No one would tell us anything about how long it might take or any info at all. I did most of the talking as Mike was pretty out of it. No one made a scene at all. We were all very polite to one another. So we waited...Not sure what to do, at around 7:45, I went back where it said no admittance and found a nurse who kindly looked him up in the computer to see where he was in the queue and said he wouldn't be seen for quite awhile and there was no way to change that. So, Mike opted to go back and do the gig untreated.That's what happened as best I can tell it.
My only comment is that Mike was never rude to anyone at all during the whole process. This is being blown way out of proportion. There was no rage at all. The fact that he did the gig as well as he did is a testimony to what a workhorse kind of guy he is! I had the same thing and went to the doctor (I've never been to the doctor on tour in my life!) in Zurich 2 days before and I can tell you it's nasty. Anyway, I just wanted everyone to know how it all went down.
Thank you,
Neal
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I think Neal missed the main problem, which was his pal trashing the hospital on social media.
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He really comes off as a clueless dolt in all of this.
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I'd just like to apologize to anybody I offended with yesterday's post…it was not a personal attack or rage against England's health care system in general (of which I know nothing about)…Yesterday I was the sickest I've EVER been in my life.
The paramedics came to see me at the gig and then decided to take me to the emergency room, only for the ambulance to run out of gas and I was then driven to the hospital by a very kind fan who offered to help. Neal & I calmly waited in the A&E without any indication from any of the staff of when I would be seen. I did NOT expect any special treatment or wanted to be put ahead of anybody else in need. (as I have been so wrongly accused)…we only wanted some (ANY!) answers as the clock was ticking until showtime...
At 7:45, I had to make the decision to continue to wait and cancel the show…or leave without being seen in order to make the 8pm show. I desperately did NOT want to disappoint the fans and made the decision to leave in order to make the show. I played the show in the worst physical condition of my life.
I'm sure you can imagine how frustrating this experience was and I stupidly posted about it on my social media. I am shocked and appauled at some of the rude and downright nasty comments that have been posted in the wake of this…really, 10x worse than my post. It's sad to see such hatred…but whatever, I can suck it up and take it. I surely never meant for such attention and controversy.
Thank you to everybody that cared and sent me well wishes and prayers…the positive vibes will help me on the road to recovery.
In any case, I really need to crawl back in my bunk, get off the internet to try and recooperate...but I wanted to address this issue and explain what happened and apologize to whomever I offended.
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As has been stated many times before, he should probably not have access to social media.
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I do follow Neal on FB and twitter (I do not follow Portnoy), and he posted this a short time ago:
Regarding last night in London, the paramedics came around 6:00 and THEY said Mike should go to the hospital, loaded him in the ambulance (I got in with him). They ran vitals. Then, after some time the driver said they were too low on fuel and suggested alternate transport. Shocked and in a bit of a panic, I ran into the venue and asked if anyone had a car. We got a ride from a very kind fan and it took us 30 minutes because of traffic that the ambulance probably could've avoided. It was now about 7:15 and we were supposed to go on around 8:00. The women at emergency told us to sit and wait though we gave them the ambulance papers and told them the situation. No one would tell us anything about how long it might take or any info at all. I did most of the talking as Mike was pretty out of it. No one made a scene at all. We were all very polite to one another. So we waited...Not sure what to do, at around 7:45, I went back where it said no admittance and found a nurse who kindly looked him up in the computer to see where he was in the queue and said he wouldn't be seen for quite awhile and there was no way to change that. So, Mike opted to go back and do the gig untreated.That's what happened as best I can tell it.
My only comment is that Mike was never rude to anyone at all during the whole process. This is being blown way out of proportion. There was no rage at all. The fact that he did the gig as well as he did is a testimony to what a workhorse kind of guy he is! I had the same thing and went to the doctor (I've never been to the doctor on tour in my life!) in Zurich 2 days before and I can tell you it's nasty. Anyway, I just wanted everyone to know how it all went down.
Thank you,
Neal
----
I think Neal missed the main problem, which was his pal trashing the hospital on social media.
Yeah, pretty much.
Also, if you get into an ambulance at T-120 your gig is cancelled, mate. That's just all there is to it. If It'd been in Dallas and I'd been the helpful fan, I'd have gotten him to a Dr. in 15 minutes, tops, but the outcome wouldn't have been much different. And I still maintain that the Dr's treatment would have been a prescription for bed rest, which he would have blown off with extreme prejudice.
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Given that they both posted their comments within minutes of each other, I am guessing Neal got in his ear, they talked it out, and put out their joint posts. Call it damage control, if you will.
Sadly for him, when I read some of the comments on his status earlier, some of the comments were pretty awful. I am sure he would think we here were too critical of him, but we looked like choir boys compared to some of those people on FB, which is usually how it goes with social media. People look at it as a license to say the most outrageous things possible.
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Neal Morse explained it way better than MP. If MP was sick enough to not be in the right state of mind to post, then he should have friends to ask "should I post this?".
Personally, I have worked physical work while being f*d up from a virus and if the job is simple enough, I can do it. But if you stop to talk to me, I sound drunk. Lots of pauses. Wait ... wait ... let me collect my thoughts ... irritated. Definitely wouldn't run to post something seen round the world by thousands of people.
But talk about missed opportunities. Instead of starting it out with blame, how about talking about how great that fan was and how lucky you are to have people like that. If a guy I didn't really know well looked sick and asked to get in my car, I'd probably swallow my keys.
This is so funny because I'm very aware of how "high and mighty" we sound when we are handing out life lessons to MP.
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I am shocked and appauled at some of the rude and downright nasty comments that have been posted in the wake of this…really, 10x worse than my post. It's sad to see such hatred…but whatever, I can suck it up and take it. I surely never meant for such attention and controversy.
Out of the MP apology I quoted a few posts up, I think this is perhaps the most important fragment. I believe the last sentence, and I at least believe that he somewhat justly holds the debatable opinion in the first sentence (honestly, for as poorly as he uses social media at times, there are a lot of Facebook commenters that are pretty needlessly rude to him). The second sentence is where he runs into trouble, because I think he doesn't do as well as he thinks he does at "sucking it up and taking it," which is one very good reason for him to get some kind of PR consultant.
Partially retracted. See below.
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lol this whole thing
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Hopefully he's picked up a few secret rules about keeping certain feelings secret.
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But talk about missed opportunities. Instead of starting it out with blame, how about talking about how great that fan was and how lucky you are to have people like that. If a guy I didn't really know well looked sick and asked to get in my car, I'd probably swallow my keys.
To be fair, if it was Neal Morse asking you to take him and Mike Portnoy in your car, that would be a slightly different situation than some random acquaintance. At least for me ("hell yes, I'll drive half of Transatlantic anywhere they want to go").
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there are a lot of Facebook commenters that are pretty needlessly rude to him
And it is why I'm not a big fan of Facebook. Even though I don't know El Barto in real life or very well, him being rude to me on this forum would carry infinitely more weight than some Facebook douche. So you have to take everything in the form it is presented. YouTube comment bashing ... who gives a crap. A forum of individuals that share common interests and post back and forth to each other frequently on a forum, take heed ... but don't lose sleep over it. An actual real life friend: you know them well enough to know when they are right about you and when they are demonstrating their own personal flaws.
If you curl up in the fetal position and cry from Facebook posts, then .... yeah.
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But talk about missed opportunities. Instead of starting it out with blame, how about talking about how great that fan was and how lucky you are to have people like that. If a guy I didn't really know well looked sick and asked to get in my car, I'd probably swallow my keys.
To be fair, if it was Neal Morse asking you to take him and Mike Portnoy in your car, that would be a slightly different situation than some random acquaintance. At least for me ("hell yes, I'll drive half of Transatlantic anywhere they want to go").
But that was my point. Recognize the positives of celebrity instead of whining that your celebrity isn't big enough to push the commoners aside.
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Ah, I get that. Yeah, that's honestly pretty special. That would have been a great Facebook post for MP to make last night.
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Also, just wanted to share kind of an interestingly timed Facebook post from Mike Mangini related to Mike Portnoy (though unrelated to the particular incident at hand):
I played onstage with DT in Boston during this "6 Degrees" tour on the kit with two stools. I had no idea that was going to happen. Mike Portnoy stuck his back up headphones on me and said "just follow me." I did. I smiled the whole time! What are the favorites from this album?
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My understanding of Portnoy is he is genuinely a nice guy with some personality flaws as opposed to a dick that fakes being nice.
But like I said, I'm totally aware that our postings are coming off as know it all or high and mighty.
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They're a little blunt but I hardly think they're unwarranted considering the way most of this rants are worded. I have met him in person before and had a small chat and can confirm that he is a nice guy but from what I've seen online he's just a little too thin skinned to make the type of comments he makes
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My understanding of Portnoy is he is genuinely a nice guy with some personality flaws as opposed to a dick that fakes being nice.
My understanding of Portnoy is that there is nothing "fake" about him. I don't think the guy has ever faked a thing.
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My understanding of Portnoy is he is genuinely a nice guy with some personality flaws as opposed to a dick that fakes being nice.
My understanding of Portnoy is that there is nothing "fake" about him. I don't think the guy has ever faked a thing.
Except his apologies.
I'm sorry *if* I offended anybody. If I didn't then fuck'em!
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I wonder how the fans feel about this, and other times, when MP has used the "all for the fans" reasons behind what he does? I know I wouldn't appreciate being used as a reason for this type of behaviour.
Personally, if it's that bad I'd rather have them cancel the show and get well. Worst-case scenario: What if MP dies on-stage cuz he didn't want disappoint the fans? I'd be pretty upset to know that he'd put his own health/life in danger just to please me and the other fans rather than get things taken care of. We're not going to riot, he's not Axel Rose not showing up for no reason, we would understand and we would be there for the re-schedule.
It seems like they're trying to blame everyone else but themselves for this. Trying to find any way to justify an un-justifiable situation. Now they're saying the paramedics told MP to go to the hospital, so it's their fault. What if they said to just give you fluids and you'll be ok and then you get seriously sick cuz you should have gone to the hospital? Then it would be their fault also since they should have erred on the side of caution.
I'd be willing to bet most of us have been to an ER and been upset about something there, gone home and bitched to friends and family a little, then gotten over it. It took time, thought, and effort for MP to make the original post which means there was time for second thoughts and personal review so it was 100% pre-meditated. And then to retaliate against others takes more time, thought, and effort and now his wife and Neal Morse and even people that work at the hospital are also involved.
There are many great posts in this thread of how MP *could* have respectfully vented and nobody would be saying anything so it's not like MP had to keep it shut altogether.
"It's not *what* you say, it's *how* you say it."
Just when I think MP has moved on or chilled-out something always seems to happen.
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All I ever wanted was for him to step up and apologize.
He did.
It's over now.
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Nope (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QTP-r46zUE)
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All I ever wanted was for him to step up and apologized.
He did.
It's over now.
Yep. This is starting to reach the "DTF nitpicks MP to death" territory.
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All I ever wanted was for him to step up and apologize.
He did.
Ummm, no he didn't. What he did is referred to as a "non-apology apology".
He is not sorry for what he said, he is simply sorry only in the event that someone was offended. He absolved himself of the responsibility to apologize and placed the burden on those who got their feelings hurt.
It happens all the time in politics and it is no less lame.
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I've never taken a vacation from any site ever...at all....in my 20 years OL.
This is the closest I've ever come to saying something that would earn me my first.... All mods...I want this noted.
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All I ever wanted was for him to step up and apologize.
He did.
It's over now.
This
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Mike Portnoy can fuck off, this is just unreal.
None of this, please. If you want to criticise someone for being disrespectful, at least be respectful yourself while doing so.
Just want to say that I really don't think my comment is that bad, but whatever, I'll move on and try and be respectful about someone is totally disrespectful. :P
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All I ever wanted was for him to step up and apologized.
He did.
It's over now.
Yep. This is starting to reach the "DTF nitpicks MP to death" territory.
Yeah, I agree, and I think I got too nitpicky earlier, particularly in my post #810. Picking apart his apology line-by-line like that wasn't really needed. Mike, if you still read this forum, sorry about that post. I'm a huge fan and I wouldn't want you to think that I'm someone who's out looking for your every flaw and error. Get well soon.
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Whatever, PetDick
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Whatever, PetDick
Now you're just acting like MP's original post.
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Damn, he apologized. I guess I'll put his poster back up.
Nah
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Whatever, PetDick
Now you're just acting like MP's original post.
Whatever, Prog Knob.
:neverusethis:
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Whatever, PetDick
Now you're just acting like MP's original post.
Whatever, Prog Knob.
:neverusethis:
I was trying to come up with something clever for your name but it's too late. :lol
However, I do HAVE a prog knob. In Italian, I believe it's called salsiccia.
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I'll be honest, for a while it seemed as if MP was trying to lose fans. His attitude and public bashing toward DT (mainly JLB and the hints toward JMx) during the split, the whole ADTOE t-shirt incident... stuff like that made me start to think that he was a complete dick (which may not be too far off), but this time I honestly think he's getting too much shit over a comment he made (that he still probably shouldn't have made in the first place, but...) about a situation he was unhappy with. This is the first time I actually feel bad for the guy. I get that people feel betrayed that he left DT because he thought he had a place in A7X, I get it. But there comes a time where you just let it go, and move on and let him move on and that's it. Decisions were made, there's no going back. Bottom line. I wish people would give him a break. After all, he does only do it for the fans... he just needs a damn PR rep.
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I think Neal missed the main problem, which was his pal trashing the hospital on social media.
True, but he never intended to address that problem. He wanted to explain Mike's condition and that happened behind the whole internet drama.
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Also, what some people here (where we are, for the most part, reasonable) don't seem to be realising is that a lot of the backlash on Facebook was at least as unreasonable as MP was in the first place, downright rude and much of it based on assumptions. As far as I can tell, Neal and Mike in his apology have been addressing that side of things.
Part of the problem, I think, is that there is so much of that crap that those of us who try to make constructive points (like most of us have in this thread) get muddled in with the genuine "haters", and I think Mike struggles to distinguish between the two.
I still find it incredibly hypocritical that people will be so downright offensive when they criticise him for being offensive, but then I guess that's almost the definition of trolling.
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Hey guys, saw this thread being active. His new music must be rea..... Oh, wow :facepalm:
Ugh, seriously, why does this guy always have these meltdowns surrounding him. I like him better when he gets a root canal procedure.
(still love his work! And while tactless, I do think he is a good guy and means well).
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Aarich, of course, the FB comments were vile. But, that's how the internet is, and to begin with, MP has kinda a certain section of his followers who have a short fuse when it comes to his public demeanor.
I think also, while the initial post was already totally out of whack, the follow-up post by him took it yet another level of aggression. First he lashes out at innocent hospital workers, then he lashes out at his followers. I think that double whammy made a lot of people think "this isn't just an exasperated guy with the flu; this guy is just a mean person".
Once people have that mindset, and they especially have a way of directly addressing the person in question, all hell breaks loose. Any person with a certain modicum of empathy would of course be aware of this; but I think empathy is the precise thing MP is lacking.
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I still find it incredibly hypocritical that people will be so downright offensive when they criticise him for being offensive, but then I guess that's almost the definition of trolling.
He started it, and then escalted it even more.
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Well Bangladesh just knocked England out of the Cricket World Cup and that's gotta be enough to put a smile on the dial of even the meanest Facebook "hater" :lol
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I still find it incredibly hypocritical that people will be so downright offensive when they criticise him for being offensive, but then I guess that's almost the definition of trolling.
He started it, and then escalted it even more.
Oh, come on. :lol
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I feel bad for the people who like his current music and thus have to square his persona with his output. I perceive this at an "All Rose" level of detachment, and hell, it is mighty entertaining.
I think for me, nuclear meltdown would happen if he decided to drum for my current favorite artist, Steven Wilson. Luckily, I judge that percentage to be close to zero.
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My thoughts on MP since he quit Dream Theater are ban worthy :)
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(https://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/43117572.jpg)
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I still find it incredibly hypocritical that people will be so downright offensive when they criticise him for being offensive, but then I guess that's almost the definition of trolling.
He started it, and then escalted it even more.
Oh, come on. :lol
Yeah, seriously. :lol
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I can't help but think about this quote from Gabe Newell:
(https://i.imgur.com/egIaHFa.png)
Even though it dosen't imply what MP said because he didn't lie or anything, it's true though that the internet is an entity you can't control so you'll have to be aware that whatever you write publicly and especially if you're a public figure could potentially blow out of proportion and in worst case scenario be a career breaker. I guess the solution is to simply value silence and keep certain things private even if you're cooking with rage about something because it may not be worth the blowback. You can't talk reason with the internet is basically what i'm saying.
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Even though it dosen't imply what MP said because he didn't lie or anything
He kinda did.
A very special NO THANKS to the staff at the Whittington Hospital for NOT seeing me regardless of telling them that there is an audience waiting for our show to begin
....
I did NOT expect any special treatment
You don't have to remember this stuff. It is there to cut and paste.
Nobody really cares about this that greatly. It is more amusing than annoying.
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I feel bad for the people who like his current music and thus have to square his persona with his output. I perceive this at an "All Rose" level of detachment, and hell, it is mighty entertaining.
I think for me, nuclear meltdown would happen if he decided to drum for my current favorite artist, Steven Wilson. Luckily, I judge that percentage to be close to zero.
Umm... Steven Wilson tends to have exactly the same issue with PR as Mike does. He makes very honest statements about his feelings on something without regard to how people may perceive them. Like just a couple of months ago when he said something to the effect of "Why would I want to go back to that?" with regard to a Porcupine Tree reunion and everyone was debating about what he actually meant.
To say nothing of the fact that Mike is a generally good guy who has the occasional misdirected emotional outburst (and Steven is a generally good guy who sometimes doesn't think through the ramifications of his statements), while Axl Rose is by all accounts not a very good guy.
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I disagree. Steven Wilson has certain opinions he is vocal about that a lot of people seem to disagree with, but that IMO is just honesty. The example you give ("Why would I ever go back?") for example was neither accusatory nor rude nor passive-aggressive. It was simply very honest.
MP's public outbursts are something very different, IMHO.
But, I'll give you that SW probably also gets more leeway since he's an artist who is gaining more and more traction. MP is all over the place.
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People are evil.
Mike's no politician, he got frustrated and vented online. Nothing he said justifies all the outrage, the hate and name calling that went on. Fucking horrible.
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Nothing he said justifies all the outrage, the hate and name calling that went on. Fucking horrible.
Well, I agree with all of that, but I don't agree that Mike was "just venting online".
Although I've said that it's irrelevant that he's a public figure, by that I mean that I don't think people who AREN'T public figures should get a free pass to say whatever they want. I find it just as annoying if a friend of mine does that sort of thing.
However, it does have a lot more impact because he posts these on his public FB page for the whole world to see. If it was him venting to his friends and that leaked, we would have no justification for commenting because loads of people do that with their friends. But I will concede that if you're a public figure, then things you say on your public social media are VERY public. Again I disagree that he should have to be any more respectful than anyone else (I think most people should be more respectful generally), but it would be wise from a PR perspective.
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People are evil.
Mike's no politician, he got frustrated and vented online. Nothing he said justifies all the outrage, the hate and name calling that went on. Fucking horrible.
I have to disagree. Showing up 45 minutes before a gig at an ER with nothing but a flu (yes, they suck, we've all had them), then lashing out publicly at the guys/women who do insane hours to save actual lives, is an all-time low. Anybody with even the slightest amount of decency would have *properly* apologized. But, all he did again was the relativization crap, with "I don't know much about the British healthcare system". We all appreciate the effort he puts into pleasing his fans, but at the same time he is a spoiled brat who fully deserved the backlash he got.
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I don't think his fans turned on him until he replied to the logical guy by calling him an idiot and threatening to ban him.
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People are evil.
Mike's no politician, he got frustrated and vented online. Nothing he said justifies all the outrage, the hate and name calling that went on. Fucking horrible.
I have to disagree. Showing up 45 minutes before a gig at an ER with nothing but a flu (yes, they suck, we've all had them), then lashing out publicly at the guys/women who do insane hours to save actual lives, is an all-time low. Anybody with even the slightest amount of decency would have *properly* apologized. But, all he did again was the relativization crap, with "I don't know much about the British healthcare system". We all appreciate the effort he puts into pleasing his fans, but at the same time he is a spoiled brat who fully deserved the backlash he got.
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One of the hospital's employees posted this;
(https://assets.blabbermouth.net.s3.amazonaws.com/media/whittingtondoctor.jpg)
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We are talking about the Facebook backlash, not the DTF discussion, right?
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I feel bad for the people who like his current music and thus have to square his persona with his output. I perceive this at an "All Rose" level of detachment, and hell, it is mighty entertaining.
I think for me, nuclear meltdown would happen if he decided to drum for my current favorite artist, Steven Wilson. Luckily, I judge that percentage to be close to zero.
Umm... Steven Wilson tends to have exactly the same issue with PR as Mike does. He makes very honest statements about his feelings on something without regard to how people may perceive them. Like just a couple of months ago when he said something to the effect of "Why would I want to go back to that?" with regard to a Porcupine Tree reunion and everyone was debating about what he actually meant.
To say nothing of the fact that Mike is a generally good guy who has the occasional misdirected emotional outburst (and Steven is a generally good guy who sometimes doesn't think through the ramifications of his statements), while Axl Rose is by all accounts not a very good guy.
Not at all. It's not even close to the same thing. Wilson says the occasional thing some disagree with, but you never see him have temper tantrums, dramatic outbusts, etc. online. And he's online quite a bit now. People just don't randomly decide to start "picking on" a musician; all of the heat Mike Portnoy has gotten over the years for the countless incidents he created, he brought on himself.
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Agreed. Even though SW can be a bit brusque, I've never seen him call out innocents... and if he ever did, I would simply expect him to apologize and move on.
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My intended meaning I guess was that he has the same basic problem but the specifics are different. Yes, obviously Mike tends to be more public and emotional in his statements, but both of them do have the problem of saying things that they mean but that they should not say from a PR standpoint.
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Neal must have felt a bit like A7X back in the day, where your drummer-for-hire creates this shitstorm that overshadows your tour.
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If Portnoy keeps having these outbursts - soon nobody will want to work with him.
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If Portnoy keeps having these outbursts - soon nobody will want to work with him.
I thought that years ago after his DT departure and subsequent comments, but he's such a great drummer and prog icon that I think he'll always be a commodity.
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These last few pages have been sickening, from his original comments to the constant bitching about him.
Soon after he left DT, I thought that his career is going to end in one great tragedy. These types on incidents seem to be increasingly intense, and the road that these are on concerns me.
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My intended meaning I guess was that he has the same basic problem but the specifics are different. Yes, obviously Mike tends to be more public and emotional in his statements, but both of them do have the problem of saying things that they mean but that they should not say from a PR standpoint.
The specifics are different enough to where it's like comparing apples and oranges.
If Portnoy keeps having these outbursts - soon nobody will want to work with him.
I can't see Neal ever not wanting to work with him. They seem to have a bond where they are almost like brothers, and I don't see that changing ever. Granted, you could have said that about Portnoy and Petrucci six years ago, but this is just different.
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My intended meaning I guess was that he has the same basic problem but the specifics are different. Yes, obviously Mike tends to be more public and emotional in his statements, but both of them do have the problem of saying things that they mean but that they should not say from a PR standpoint.
The specifics are different enough to where it's like comparing apples and oranges.
I agree. I don't see any similarity.
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My intended meaning I guess was that he has the same basic problem but the specifics are different. Yes, obviously Mike tends to be more public and emotional in his statements, but both of them do have the problem of saying things that they mean but that they should not say from a PR standpoint.
The specifics are different enough to where it's like comparing apples and oranges.
Yeah, I guess you're right. I wasn't entirely awake when I wrote that originally.
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Haha, it's all good. :hat
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I can't see Neal ever not wanting to work with him. They seem to have a bond where they are almost like brothers, and I don't see that changing ever.
I find Neal's adherence to MP a bit bewildering. Sure, he's a great drummer, but wouldn't you want to try new things musically at some point? One reason (other than the lyrics) why I don't really listen to Neal is because every album has exactly the same fricking sound.
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I can't see Neal ever not wanting to work with him. They seem to have a bond where they are almost like brothers, and I don't see that changing ever.
I find Neal's adherence to MP a bit bewildering. Sure, he's a great drummer, but wouldn't you want to try new things musically at some point? One reason (other than the lyrics) why I don't really listen to Neal is because every album has exactly the same fricking sound.
My best friends' best friend is an absolute douchebag, but he's still his best friend and was the best man at his wedding. They grew up together, are like brothers, but he's such a pompous ass it's ridiculous. I consider him a friend too, but fuck.
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I still find it incredibly hypocritical that people will be so downright offensive when they criticise him for being offensive, but then I guess that's almost the definition of trolling.
He started it, and then escalted it even more.
Oh, come on. :lol
Yeah, seriously. :lol
I actually wasn't serious, but still he did start it. :lol
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People are evil.
Mike's no politician, he got frustrated and vented online. Nothing he said justifies all the outrage, the hate and name calling that went on. Fucking horrible.
Not just about Mike, but people in general;
We're in an era now where this notion really needs to die. That someone was "just venting" when they posted something online, so whatever they say should be glossed over.
The internet isn't a new thing anymore. When you put something online, whether you're putting it directly in front of a million people or a dozen people, you're putting it on the internet for potentially the whole world to see. If something is only meant for a few people, the damn internet is not the place for it, especially not on something like facebook, twitter, or a public forum. If you just need to vent a bit, do so in person with people around you who will take it for what it is, or vent to someone by phone or text one-on-one.
You don't get to publicly say something where a lot of people could reasonably see/hear it, and then use the excuse that you weren't talking to them.
Don't agree? Too bad. Whether it's right or not, that's how the internet works.
Again, not just about Mike. A hell of a lot of people out in the world could really use something akin to 'Common Sense on the Internet 101'.
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I feel bad for the people who like his current music and thus have to square his persona with his output. I perceive this at an "All Rose" level of detachment, and hell, it is mighty entertaining.
Don't feel bad for me, I love most of his current projects, and I couldn't care less about his "persona". I don't live with him, I just listen to his music. Attitude problems are nothing new in the entertainment business and his are by far not the worst.
Like I said, people are just out for blood.
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I feel bad for the people who like his current music and thus have to square his persona with his output. I perceive this at an "All Rose" level of detachment, and hell, it is mighty entertaining.
Don't feel bad for me, I love most of his current projects, and I couldn't care less about his "persona". I don't live with him, I just listen to his music. Attitude problems are nothing new in the entertainment business and his are by far not the worst.
Like I said, people are just out for blood.
Same here. It is fantastic when an artist has a great personality, but it does not affect the art itself for me.
And while Portnoy often has these ridiculous moments, I think nobody can deny he did many great interactions for the fans of his bands/projects.
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I feel bad for the people who like his current music and thus have to square his persona with his output.
Why would his persona matter in evaluating his music?
I think for me, nuclear meltdown would happen if he decided to drum for my current favorite artist, Steven Wilson
Again, why would any of that be relevant (let alone a nuclear meltdown) if SW & MP would happen to release an amazing album together?
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I feel bad for the people who like his current music and thus have to square his persona with his output.
Why would his persona matter in evaluating his music?
Because he likes his rock stars like his women. Silent and constantly putting out (music)
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I can't see Neal ever not wanting to work with him. They seem to have a bond where they are almost like brothers, and I don't see that changing ever.
I find Neal's adherence to MP a bit bewildering. Sure, he's a great drummer, but wouldn't you want to try new things musically at some point? One reason (other than the lyrics) why I don't really listen to Neal is because every album has exactly the same fricking sound.
Have you listened to Songs from November? A completely different line up (no Mike Portnoy, obviously) and the sound is drastically unlike his prog output.
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People are evil.
Mike's no politician, he got frustrated and vented online. Nothing he said justifies all the outrage, the hate and name calling that went on. Fucking horrible.
Not just about Mike, but people in general;
We're in an era now where this notion really needs to die. That someone was "just venting" when they posted something online, so whatever they say should be glossed over.
The internet isn't a new thing anymore. When you put something online, whether you're putting it directly in front of a million people or a dozen people, you're putting it on the internet for potentially the whole world to see. If something is only meant for a few people, the damn internet is not the place for it, especially not on something like facebook, twitter, or a public forum. If you just need to vent a bit, do so in person with people around you who will take it for what it is, or vent to someone by phone or text one-on-one.
You don't get to publicly say something where a lot of people could reasonably see/hear it, and then use the excuse that you weren't talking to them.
Don't agree? Too bad. Whether it's right or not, that's how the internet works.
Again, not just about Mike. A hell of a lot of people out in the world could really use something akin to 'Common Sense on the Internet 101'.
:clap:
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I feel bad for the people who like his current music and thus have to square his persona with his output.
Why would his persona matter in evaluating his music?
I think for me, nuclear meltdown would happen if he decided to drum for my current favorite artist, Steven Wilson
Again, why would any of that be relevant (let alone a nuclear meltdown) if SW & MP would happen to release an amazing album together?
Am I really the only one in this thread whose experience of the music is at least somewhat enhanced/tainted by whether I approve of the person him/herself?
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I guess. I love the Dillinger Escape Plan even though I think Greg's an asshole a lot of the time.
Sure, I appreciate musicians who also happen to be cool people, but it doesn't really affect my enjoyment of their music if they're not.
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I get ya, but I've only felt like that when a musician interferes with a band continuing like Steve Perry with Journey and Dennis DeYoung with Styx.
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I feel bad for the people who like his current music and thus have to square his persona with his output.
Why would his persona matter in evaluating his music?
I think for me, nuclear meltdown would happen if he decided to drum for my current favorite artist, Steven Wilson
Again, why would any of that be relevant (let alone a nuclear meltdown) if SW & MP would happen to release an amazing album together?
Am I really the only one in this thread whose experience of the music is at least somewhat enhanced/tainted by whether I approve of the person him/herself?
No you are not. I feel the same way generally. Like I do not want to knowingly root for some asshole. I think David Ortiz is an asshole, but I still root for the Sox.
MP has not done anything in my eyes for me to not be a fan, other than make a shit ton of music since he left DT that I simply do not care for.
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I mean, in the end that's where I stand too. I really just don't care for his post-DT stuff (the Skolnik thing is likely to be the same), so for me this is at the :corn level.
But, I don't think these PR fiascos go without any damage. Even if, on a very subtle level, somebody will now approach a new album of his with a negative attitude. We all know how initial attitude can heavily color one's perception of an album, and it might cause a person who previously would have dished out the money, now longer does so.
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I'm not sure the average fan is even aware. If I wasn't a member of DTF, I wouldn't have even known he was sick.
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I don't know, the FB comment of the doctor guy who was criticizing MP has 5,000 likes. No matter how you slice it, that's 5,000 people whose opinion of MP was lessened.
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Yeah, it's definitely not a good look.
But do "average" fans follow people on Facebook? maybe they do. Maybe I'm too old. I don't even have a Facebook.
But I think if you're a huge Billy Sheehan fan, you still probably buy the next Winery Dogs even though it has that asshole drummer.
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Actually, to a lot of people FB is primarily becoming a means of keeping up to date with the artists they like.
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Actually, to a lot of people FB is primarily becoming a means of keeping up to date with the artists they like.
Yeah, that makes sense.
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But do "average" fans follow people on Facebook? maybe they do. Maybe I'm too old. I don't even have a Facebook.
Yea actually. Sometimes even less than that. I have a few friends on FB who follow Portnoy and they wouldn't even qualify as casual fans of the band.
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Am I really the only one in this thread whose experience of the music is at least somewhat enhanced/tainted by whether I approve of the person him/herself?
Nope, although the way I process it is probably different. When I listen to a song or album, it's like a moment in time. I think about the events within that timeframe, where each guy is at in their career, and how their personality comes out through their respective instrument. Sometimes, the creative direction of an album is fueled by real life events. The things that happened in the past can shape something that would have otherwise been different.
That sort of relates to the current situation with MP. It's very difficult for me to listen to any of his post-DT work without thinking of all the negative PR, the backlash, and the general diminishing of his public image. Perhaps that's just my issue, but I cannot hold Mike Portnoy in the same regard I once did.
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But do "average" fans follow people on Facebook? maybe they do. Maybe I'm too old. I don't even have a Facebook.
Yea actually. Sometimes even less than that. I have a few friends on FB who follow Portnoy and they wouldn't even qualify as casual fans of the band.
Then why would they follow Portnoy?
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Some people are a little quick to the trigger with the "Like" button.
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I think it's important to point out, and this is especially something MP seems to struggle comprehending, the vast majority of fans of a band are "soft" fans. They follow the band/artist with mild interest, and they are the ones who will likely fall off the wagon with too many negative news. It's a gradual distribution. MP only sees "fan vs non-fan" and is often quick to deride any critic of his as a fake fan, not understanding that his core supporters are nowhere near numerous enough to bring in the revenue he needs. He lives by the support of the soft fans, but they are the ones that are easily alienated by stunts like these.
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There are many popular actors, musicians and writers acting like offensive, totally ridiculous lunatics and the internet/papers are constantly filled with articles about it. I honestly do not think the general public cares enough for it to be significantly impacting sales.
For clarity, I totally agree he's acting like a spoiled brat and people in hospitals have much more urgent things to attend to. I am too lazy to specifically go to his fb to share this, but would if I randomly clicked on this crap while logged in.
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I think it's important to point out, and this is especially something MP seems to struggle comprehending, the vast majority of fans of a band are "soft" fans. They follow the band/artist with mild interest, and they are the ones who will likely fall off the wagon with too many negative news. It's a gradual distribution. MP only sees "fan vs non-fan" and is often quick to deride any critic of his as a fake fan, not understanding that his core supporters are nowhere near numerous enough to bring in the revenue he needs. He lives by the support of the soft fans, but they are the ones that are easily alienated by stunts like these.
Well, yes and no. You could argue that all of this controversy gets his name known and helps pick up a bigger number of "soft fans". And in terms of following him on facebook, the majority of those thousands and thousands of people who follow him won't even really pay attention to this sort of thing, unless they are specifically interesting in all the drama. Most of the time if I see a post like that on facebook I think "ok, whatever" and move on. It's only really the "hard fans" or those who know about MP's drama that would usually bother to look at the comments and see what a shitstorm it was.
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Ladies and Gentleman. You wanted them less, surely you jest.
On drums, Mike "I told them the audience was waiting" Portnoy
On bass, Gene "Rock is Dead" Simmons
On guitar, Yngwie "You've unleashed the fookin fury" Malmsteen
On vocals, Kanye "Call me Beyonce" West
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Not on social media so my only exposure to this is here.
He made a HUGE mistake slamming hospital workers in a PUBLIC way using social media. If that never happened, this wouldn't be discussed.
They deserve an apology.
End of story.
I hope he's feeling better.
And this isn't just about him, it's ANYONE who does that as someone said before.
Wow.
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I wrote something similar to this a while back in this thread, but this seems an opportune time to re-iterate and expand on it.
On some of the more, let's say, less-than-sympathetic forums to Mike Portnoy, a question often gets asked of how his diehard fans (of which I'm one) can keep standing up for him when he does stuff like this.
Firstly let me get the 'negative' stuff out of the way...
There are 2 things I'd personally like Mike to learn, either by himself or for someone close to him to try to make him see it. One is his misguided tendency to speak about fans in war-like terms, you're either with him or against him, you're a true fan or a hater, and so on.
The other is I wish he'd take note of his own words, when he writes things like "I'm a human and I also have feelings, this stuff you write on the internet hurts, please remember actual people read this stuff!"....well, yeah Mike, that's why you can't always dismiss the offensive stuff you write on the internet as "Just my opinion, life is good, everyone go relax in the sun!" Some underpaid and overworked nurse at that hospital woke up to the furore over your Facebook post, and she's a real human with feelings, just like you. Why do you demand everyone treats you with respect on the net but you sometimes shirk your own responsibility in that regard?
But as others have said above, I do believe he's an extremely nice and sweet guy, I don't think he has any nastiness or malice in him. He just doesn't handle negative emotions very well, he's very impulsive. But that (to the question above, about why his fans stick by him through all the shit) is a character trait which I think is the other side of the coin of his talent. No other drummer has moved me with his playing as much as him, on tracks like Name of God, Stream of Consciousness, Count of Tuscany. That sense of spontaneity and unpredictability which I get from his best work, I don't think any other kind of character could have done that.
He isn't a perfect person, that doesn't need saying, none of us is. Frankly speaking this hospital thing pissed me off a bit (as an English socialist, I'm very defensive of the NHS, and I tried to explain to him why on his Forum), but it doesn't come close to comparing how angry I was at him when he humiliated that Philipino (I think it was the Phillipines) kid on stage, when his drums were fucked up. That's the 'worst' thing he's done, in my eyes. But even that isn't the end of the world. The good stuff he does massively outweighs it.
When you're an MP fan, you learn to accept that now and again stuff like this will happen, and always it'll be the result of his not being able, on very rare occasions to be fair, to control his impulses in times of stress. I still really like the guy, I still think he's one of the greatest musicians to follow as a fan, and the times he fucks up are actually pretty seldom compared to others I could name.
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Am I really the only one in this thread whose experience of the music is at least somewhat enhanced/tainted by whether I approve of the person him/herself?
As I said in the Kanye West thread, it depends how much I can separate any asshattery that takes place with their work. Miles Davis could be a (potentially racist) asshole, but on his albums, he's just blowing into a trumpet (in groups, willingly, with a fair few white guys for old school jazz), so it's still quite easy to get lost in the music. With Kanye, a guy whose career is talking over a beat, it's a bit harder to distance him from his drivelling Beyonce rants.
I can see both sides when it comes to MP, and an issue like this specifically. You could argue he's the drummer, he's just banging shit, what he said about this hospital don't mean shit. But then he did, to some extent, make the whole thing about himself as a drummer in a band.
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Ladies and Gentleman. You wanted them less, surely you jest.
On drums, Mike "I told them the audience was waiting" Portnoy
On bass, Gene "Rock is Dead" Simmons
On guitar, Yngwie "You've unleashed the fookin fury" Malmsteen
On vocals, Kanye "Call me Beyonce" West
Well that's some lineup. I would say MP is the least troublesome since he is new to the scene of creating public drama. I think Gene Simmons is the biggest douche licker of that group. followed by Kanye, then Yngwie. In Yngwie's case though, I think it's just pure entertainment listening to him rant. It's like the Archie Bunker syndrome. You really can't be angry at him because he's just ignorant.
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Yngwie is pretty funny............I remember back in the 80's when I was learning guitar his instructional videos were hysterical.
"And now here's a demonstration"..........widdle,widdle,widdle
"And now I'll play it slow"..........widdle,widdle,widdle :lol
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Yngwie is pretty funny............I remember back in the 80's when I was learning guitar his instructional videos were hysterical.
"And now here's a demonstration"..........widdle,widdle,widdle
"And now I'll play it slow"..........widdle,widdle,widdle :lol
:rollin That sounds like him.
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**long post**
All of this. Well, aside from the English socialist part, but that's a different topic. :biggrin:
I don't understand thinking that he's a bad guy from stuff like this. I understand being upset or disappointed, because sometimes, like this time, it is justified. But if you look at the grand sum of everything he does, I think the record clearly shows that he's a good guy with some flaws. Flaws that tend to manifest themselves, unfortunately, in a rather ugly and public way.
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Ugh, I always quote instead of modify...... :facepalm:
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But as others have said above, I do believe he's an extremely nice and sweet guy, I don't think he has any nastiness or malice in him. He just doesn't handle negative emotions very well, he's very impulsive.
**long post**
I don't understand thinking that he's a bad guy from stuff like this. I understand being upset or disappointed, because sometimes, like this time, it is justified. But if you look at the grand sum of everything he does, I think the record clearly shows that he's a good guy with some flaws. Flaws that tend to manifest themselves, unfortunately, in a rather ugly and public way.
Agreed.
In a way it reminds me of a housemate of mine (I share a big livingroom and kitchen with 13 people). Especially in our text group he sometimes says some stupid shit, leading to big arguments. A lot of people here hate him (and I get that). But the thing is, I have seen him geniunely care for people and seen him help out when something is amiss. And then you have another other type of people in my house; those who are smart, tactful but really only do things that benefit themselves and actually have a pretty shitty personality. Nobody in the house has a problem with them, offcourse.
My point with this is that people always blow up negative encounters and base/write off a personality on that, while sometimes these persons are genuinely good, yet openly flawed. Now I do not excuse these Portnoy meltdowns at all, but being tactless and having problems to admitting/seeing that is far, very far from actually being a shitty person. Even though I would still buy his stuff if he was a total douche, I do not believe he actually is.
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But do "average" fans follow people on Facebook? maybe they do. Maybe I'm too old. I don't even have a Facebook.
Yea actually. Sometimes even less than that. I have a few friends on FB who follow Portnoy and they wouldn't even qualify as casual fans of the band.
Then why would they follow Portnoy?
I dunno. Maybe they heard a DT song once they liked or recognized his name. A few of them are drummers so I'm sure they're at least aware of what he does, even if they don't actively follow him.
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But do "average" fans follow people on Facebook? maybe they do. Maybe I'm too old. I don't even have a Facebook.
Yea actually. Sometimes even less than that. I have a few friends on FB who follow Portnoy and they wouldn't even qualify as casual fans of the band.
Then why would they follow Portnoy?
I follow Food Babe, Alex Jones, and Great Mothers Questioning Vaccines... I hate all of them.
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I follow Food Babe, Alex Jones, and Great Mothers Questioning Vaccines... I hate all of them.
:lol I follow AJ for two reasons. One, because he's entertaining when he goes off on people. Two, because occasionally he will put up an article that the other media outlets ignore and you learn something beneficial. Though I have learned with him that you should always double check his research first.
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Am I really the only one in this thread whose experience of the music is at least somewhat enhanced/tainted by whether I approve of the person him/herself?
No.
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I think it's important to point out, and this is especially something MP seems to struggle comprehending, the vast majority of fans of a band are "soft" fans. They follow the band/artist with mild interest, and they are the ones who will likely fall off the wagon with too many negative news. It's a gradual distribution. MP only sees "fan vs non-fan" and is often quick to deride any critic of his as a fake fan, not understanding that his core supporters are nowhere near numerous enough to bring in the revenue he needs. He lives by the support of the soft fans, but they are the ones that are easily alienated by stunts like these.
Well, yes and no. You could argue that all of this controversy gets his name known and helps pick up a bigger number of "soft fans". And in terms of following him on facebook, the majority of those thousands and thousands of people who follow him won't even really pay attention to this sort of thing, unless they are specifically interesting in all the drama. Most of the time if I see a post like that on facebook I think "ok, whatever" and move on. It's only really the "hard fans" or those who know about MP's drama that would usually bother to look at the comments and see what a shitstorm it was.
To my understanding of how FB works, a post like that, which spurred a ton of response, gets pushed up by their algorithm to appear in a lot of people's daily feed (whereas a regular TweetSecret post likely wouldn't appear). So, I think a lot of people will have seen that particular post.
Heh, just checked, it's deleted now.
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[long post]
Quality post. There are a few things in it that I don't particularly agree with, but good nonetheless.
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Ugh, I always quote instead of modify...... :facepalm:
I hate when I go to reply in a thread and for some reason the forum starts a brand new thread :|
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I think it's important to point out, and this is especially something MP seems to struggle comprehending, the vast majority of fans of a band are "soft" fans. They follow the band/artist with mild interest, and they are the ones who will likely fall off the wagon with too many negative news. It's a gradual distribution. MP only sees "fan vs non-fan" and is often quick to deride any critic of his as a fake fan, not understanding that his core supporters are nowhere near numerous enough to bring in the revenue he needs. He lives by the support of the soft fans, but they are the ones that are easily alienated by stunts like these.
Well, yes and no. You could argue that all of this controversy gets his name known and helps pick up a bigger number of "soft fans". And in terms of following him on facebook, the majority of those thousands and thousands of people who follow him won't even really pay attention to this sort of thing, unless they are specifically interesting in all the drama. Most of the time if I see a post like that on facebook I think "ok, whatever" and move on. It's only really the "hard fans" or those who know about MP's drama that would usually bother to look at the comments and see what a shitstorm it was.
To my understanding of how FB works, a post like that, which spurred a ton of response, gets pushed up by their algorithm to appear in a lot of people's daily feed (whereas a regular TweetSecret post likely wouldn't appear). So, I think a lot of people will have seen that particular post.
Heh, just checked, it's deleted now.
My point was that most people won't have seen the backlash which was all in the comments. I'm not doubting that the post will have appeared in their news feed, I just think that most "soft fans" would glance over it because on its own it doesn't look that controversial.
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MPs son Max signs first record deal with his band Next To None.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/mike_portnoys_16-year-old_son_max_signs_first_record_deal_with_his_band_next_to_none.html
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MPs son Max signs first record deal with his band Next To None.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/mike_portnoys_16-year-old_son_max_signs_first_record_deal_with_his_band_next_to_none.html
I saw that earlier. That's pretty damn awesome!
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I'm pretty sure MP has to have his fingers on it. A birthday present for his son. Maybe it's Ytsejam records? :biggrin:
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Sorry but this just has an air of nepotism about it.
If one of my kids had aspirations at a music career and were dedicated (which I'm sure MPs son is - he has a great role model), you can be damn sure I would not be ok with them signing record deals and touring at 16.
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Sorry but this just has an air of nepotism about it.
If one of my kids had aspirations at a music career and were dedicated (which I'm sure MPs son is - he has a great role model), you can be damn sure I would not be ok with them signing record deals and touring at 16.
Marlene ?
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Sorry but this just has an air of nepotism about it.
No doubt about the nepotism .... but ..... so what? It just means he cares about his son. And in the music business, nepotism really doesn't cause any harm I can think of.
Nepotism in Hollywood (which is rampant) can give us some really awful actor's kids ruining what could have been good movies. And the actor is so big that Hollywood will keep putting that kid in movies to mess up so they can keep the big fish happy.
Nepotism in the workplace (far less rampant) can give us some horrible people in positions that hurt so many people.
But in music, you create your own band, produce your own album and no matter how much daddy got you there, you will have to win over the fanbase on your own. Some may give them a chance that they wouldn't have otherwise, but they still have to like it to buy the 2nd album. And if they suck and keep making more albums, you can just ignore it. They are only screwing up their own albums.
And of course on the flipside, nepotism can lead to really great results because the kid was born into and soaked it all up when they were at the super sponge age.
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I agree with the above. If Max ends up making some albums that people really like then great, I'm glad his dad helped him out. If it never really goes anywhere and Max is stuck living in MP's shadow (which is the more likely outcome), then that's fine too. He's lucky he had the resource to be in a touring band at such a young age. At the very least it must've been a cool experience.
I understand that it seems kind of unfair that Max gets a free boost because he has a famous parent, but remember he'll have challenges of his own because of that. Chances are he'll end up being best known as Mike Portnoy's son, which I can't imagine being ideal. And personally speaking I think it'd be more beneficial to let the kid build his career from the ground up and experience the challenges of the industry, but who am I to judge?
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You can call nepotism all you want. Maybe MP had something to do with it, maybe not. In the end it will be Next to None that has to prove themselves to the public. But I can say that they are indeed talented kids. With my kid I used all the influence I had to get her what she wanted, in the end she still had to prove she has the goods. That will be the same for Max. If you are a parent, I can't believe that you wouldn't do the same. If you say no, you're lying.
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Agree with everything Calvin, Mosh and Bob just said.
I understand that it seems kind of unfair that Max gets a free boost because he has a famous parent, but remember he'll have challenges of his own because of that. Chances are he'll end up being best known as Mike Portnoy's son, which I can't imagine being ideal. And personally speaking I think it'd be more beneficial to let the kid build his career from the ground up and experience the challenges of the industry, but who am I to judge?
This in particular is so true. While it no doubt can give you the opportunity to show your stuff, you need to actually have the ability. And because a lot of people have that default position of "they're just relying on their parent's success", it can actually it harder to prove themselves rather than easier.
Rhianna Pratchett (excellent writer, primarily of video games such as Mirror's Edge and the Tomb Raider reboots, who also happens to be the daughter of Terry Pratchett) has spoken about this a lot. She's always faced cyncism from people who claim that she's only successful because of her father (RIP).
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I have no qualms with MP pulling the strings to make this happen (and you can be sure he did, Next To None would be nowhere without him), I think my criticism would be more from a parenting/artist development kind of angle. I think pushing a 16-year old into a record contract short-circuits a lot of development that most successful artists have gone through in their teens/early twenties.
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I think pushing a 16-year old into a record contract short-circuits a lot of development that most successful artists have gone through in their teens/early twenties.
Are you afraid it would make him a prima donna?
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I understand the reasoning behind the concern about a 16-year-old having a record contract. But at the same time, I think his father, the professional musician, has a much better understanding of the psychological effects of touring than any of us do. So I would be inclined to not really question his judgement in this instance.
Edit: He also knows his own son far better than any of us do, so there's that as well.
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I think pushing a 16-year old into a record contract short-circuits a lot of development that most successful artists have gone through in their teens/early twenties.
Are you afraid it would make him a prima donna?
No, not in that sense. More like, a lot of an artist's uniqueness comes from sitting alone in your room with your instrument and figuring out stuff. Right now, there's just no other way, Max will be a carbon copy of Mike's drumming. That's just what kids do, emulate their parents. I think if he now gets pushed into the circus of record contract etc., he'll never go through that process of "becoming your own".
If that makes sense to anyone.
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It makes perfect sense. But I wouldn't worry about it. I think what is important to these young artists is getting an opportunity, some exposure. That's probably a valid trade off to sitting in his room developing his craft. I'd bet he's probably pretty developed for his age anyway.
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Rumbo, you should read about Simon Collins. Phil Collins' son. He is a drummer and lead singer as well for a band called "Sound Of Contact". A nice comparison between famous dad and son in the same field.
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More like, a lot of an artist's uniqueness comes from sitting alone in your room with your instrument and figuring out stuff.
I think I developed the fastest when playing and writing with other people. More of a combination of collaboration and alone time. I did work out some things in solitary where I could just play simply for the sake of trying to push the envelope of my phrasing (which meant a ton of bad notes). And I would bring totally completed songs to the band (drums, bass, keys, guitar, melodies), but that was way less fun and expanding that bouncing ideas of one another.
So it could actually help him out a bit. From a parental view, the only thing I'd truly worry about is the Twitter World tearing him to shreds before he is truly ready for that. I know when people responded positively to what I was doing, it would make me write more. When they cut it down, it would be harder to progress. So multiply that by a million when it comes to TwitterBook.
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This is no different than a rich kid getting into a prestigious school like Harvard. Just because the wheels were greased doesn't mean there isn't some innate talent there. Honestly, their biggest challenge will probably be the same as it is for lots of people - songwriting. Lots of people can play great, but unless you are an instrumental band, you have to have some substance, and substance is one of those things that come with age and life experience. From a strictly musical standpoint, I would be afraid that if things don't go as well as Max would like after an album or two he moves on too quickly, like those HS kids who used to apply for the NBA draft only to find that they really needed the experience and polish college basketball would have provided.
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You can call nepotism all you want. Maybe MP had something to do with it, maybe not. In the end it will be Next to None that has to prove themselves to the public. But I can say that they are indeed talented kids. With my kid I used all the influence I had to get her what she wanted, in the end she still had to prove she has the goods. That will be the same for Max. If you are a parent, I can't believe that you wouldn't do the same. If you say no, you're lying.
This.
If people here were in MP's shoes and you had the chance to give your child a boost in the music business, you would tell him, "sorry sport, but I don't believe in nepotism?" Like people have mentioned above, they still have to prove themselves.
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Theres not just nepotism everywhere but also cronyism. I have worked with so many unqualified people who simply knew some people and now make everyone elses job harder because they sometimes go drink with the boss.
Thats why when people say that in this country you have to work hard to get somewhere I always tell that its bullshit. Sure it is a piece of the puzzle but sometimes it is a very small piece. Other times it is a very big one.
With all that said, there are a ton of great actors and musicians who got their start because their parents were in the industry. The shitty ones will be forgotten. No reason to complain about nepotism and cronyism especially if the people have the chops to prove it which they really only do about 50% of the time. From what I've seen, Next to None do for the most part. The guitarist didn't impress me. I don't like the vocals but that dude is talented and great at keyboards. Max is obviously good.
As far as the wisdom of letting them sign and tour when they are 16.... :-\
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So I was just checking out some Next To None vids on Youtube. They seem like a decent enough kid band, and Max is pretty damned good. But that vocalist? Has his voice even changed yet??
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Theres not just nepotism everywhere but also cronyism. I have worked with so many unqualified people who simply knew some people and now make everyone elses job harder because they sometimes go drink with the boss.
Thats why when people say that in this country you have to work hard to get somewhere I always tell that its bullshit. Sure it is a piece of the puzzle but sometimes it is a very small piece. Other times it is a very big one.
With all that said, there are a ton of great actors and musicians who got their start because their parents were in the industry. The shitty ones will be forgotten. No reason to complain about nepotism and cronyism especially if the people have the chops to prove it which they really only do about 50% of the time. From what I've seen, Next to None do for the most part. The guitarist didn't impress me. I don't like the vocals but that dude is talented and great at keyboards. Max is obviously good.
As far as the wisdom of letting them sign and tour when they are 16.... :-\
This is a great post. Unfortunately nepotism, cronyism, and who you know determine a lot in life.
That said, only the market will determine the success of Next to None. My opinion of them is that they're "good for kids", but really I should add "good for kids with really rich parents." I wish I had all their toys when me and my friends were playing in high school bands. But there are plenty of young bands with much less doing much more. Next to None have not impressed me at all and nothing MP does can change that. He can provide them some publicity and maybe pull a few strings, but he can't make the interesting.
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Max is probably making his father's recent realization, that a drummer is only as good as the songs he drums in.
That said, I'm not sure Mike ever made that realization.
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Getting off topic a bit, but regarding cronyism...
I kind of get it. It's not just about "drinking with the boss". It's about working with people you get along with. I've been on *both* sides of this equation, and I try to just not take it personally. I get that it can be frustrating, when someone is totally unqualified, but it's usually not that black and white. When it gets right down to it, would you rather work with someone who's 100% qualified to do the job, but he's a jerk and makes your daily job more taxing...or would you make the sacrifice to work with someone who does an adequate job and makes the entire work day a joy.
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Getting off topic a bit, but regarding cronyism...
I kind of get it. It's not just about "drinking with the boss". It's about working with people you get along with. I've been on *both* sides of this equation, and I try to just not take it personally. I get that it can be frustrating, when someone is totally unqualified, but it's usually not that black and white. When it gets right down to it, would you rather work with someone who's 100% qualified to do the job, but he's a jerk and makes your daily job more taxing...or would you make the sacrifice to work with someone who does an adequate job and makes the entire work day a joy.
Good post, but dude: one space after a period. Not two. Certainly 4 :lol
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Actually, jammindude's use of space after periods makes the whole thing that much easier to read.
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Actually, jammindude's use of space after periods makes the whole thing that much easier to read.
Everyone is different. I've received compliments and criticisms. Sometimes I even add paragraphs where they are not technically necessary.
Like this.
I don't know why, but to me standard spacing feels extremely claustrophobic.
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Well, the two space thing comes from typing class back in the day.
, = one space
; = one space
. = two spaces
: = two spaces
I remember that much from typing class. With computers changing the spacing of characters, it has reverted back to one space. But in reality, you who the hell thinks about the actual keystrokes when they are typing. You form habits or were taught a certain way and shortly thereafter it just comes out of your fingers. Unless it is a new word, does anybody concentrate on syllables or pronunciation when talking. Of course not.
Don't make me go into a meltdown on Facebook over this :-*
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Well, the two space thing comes from typing class back in the day.
, = one space
; = one space
. = two spaces
: = two spaces
I remember that much from typing class. With computers changing the spacing of characters, it has reverted back to one space. But in reality, you who the hell thinks about the actual keystrokes when they are typing. You form habits or were taught a certain way and shortly thereafter it just comes out of your fingers. Unless it is a new word, does anybody concentrate on syllables or pronunciation when talking. Of course not.
Don't make me go into a meltdown on Facebook over this :-*
It's one space for all of those in the computer age and it's not even debatable. I haven't seen a recent style manual that says 2.
That said, I won't make a deal about two spaces if I see it. I notice it, but it doesn't really matter to me if someone really wants to use two for some reasons.
If you need more than 2 spaces, though, I don't know what to say. I mean this in the most polite way possible, but perhaps you should get an eye exam.
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https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=30674.msg1202778#msg1202778
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Well, the two space thing comes from typing class back in the day.
, = one space
; = one space
. = two spaces
: = two spaces
I remember that much from typing class. With computers changing the spacing of characters, it has reverted back to one space. But in reality, you who the hell thinks about the actual keystrokes when they are typing. You form habits or were taught a certain way and shortly thereafter it just comes out of your fingers. Unless it is a new word, does anybody concentrate on syllables or pronunciation when talking. Of course not.
Don't make me go into a meltdown on Facebook over this :-*
It's one space for all of those in the computer age and it's not even debatable. I haven't seen a recent style manual that says 2.
Which is what I said?
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Well, the two space thing comes from typing class back in the day.
Yeah, you can tell our age from things like this. I use two spaces myself. Every time I experiment with only one, it looks weird to me.
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That damn MO, he's now ruining our spacing in paragraphs.
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Who the fuck is MO?
(https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hefdaddy42/funny/moe_zpsgi92zj0c.jpg)
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Mike Ortnoy?
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Damon auto correct! :lol
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Damon auto correct! :lol
lol
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Damon auto correct! :lol
(https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hefdaddy42/other/mattdamon_zpsta8dvlpo.jpg)
Don't blame autocorrect for your bad typing skillz
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I did that one purposely sillies
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(https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hefdaddy42/funny/OK_zps6022b6c5.gif)
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:lol
Seriously. I did! But the first, yeah I didn't proofread.
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New tourography:
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/MPTourography/TourList.aspx?bandId=6
Still missing some shows (DT 2010)
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You might have to explain this. How is this different from what was before?
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https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/mptourography/bandlist.aspx I think Charles meant to link this.
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And now, let us unleash the shitstorm that will ensue from the discussion about the ordering of bands on that page :lol
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:rollin Oh MP.
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It's nice to see such a comprehensive list though. MP likes to play at BB King's in NYC :lol
The DT icon is one of the smaller images
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Right next to Big Elf. :lol
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And now, let us unleash the shitstorm that will ensue from the discussion about the ordering of bands on that page :lol
Really? The bands at the top are all the ones he is currently playing in. DT and LTE are literally top of the bands he is no longer playing with.
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Stop being so rational riiiich, god.
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And now, let us unleash the shitstorm that will ensue from the discussion about the ordering of bands on that page :lol
Really? The bands at the top are all the ones he is currently playing in. DT and LTE are literally top of the bands he is no longer playing with.
Why is LTE so high, but DT between tiny side projects?
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For what it's worth MP had nothing to do with the new layout other than providing setlists. That was done by the mods over there.
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Poor MP, he can never do right...if he had put the DT logo at the top, some of us here would be saying "he´s still trying to capitalize on DT´s success", or "clearly he hasn´t moved on...come on dude, it´s been 5 years already".
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Poor MP, he can never do right...if he had put the DT logo at the top, some of us here would be saying "he´s still trying to capitalize on DT´s success", or "clearly he hasn´t moved on...come on dude, it´s been 5 years already".
Yeah, that sucks.
This is absolutely no big deal.
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And now, let us unleash the shitstorm that will ensue from the discussion about the ordering of bands on that page :lol
Really? The bands at the top are all the ones he is currently playing in. DT and LTE are literally top of the bands he is no longer playing with.
They've changed it since rumbo's (and my) post. Originally DT was below LTE, below AMOB, below A7X and down next to Bigelf.
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And now, let us unleash the shitstorm that will ensue from the discussion about the ordering of bands on that page :lol
Really? The bands at the top are all the ones he is currently playing in. DT and LTE are literally top of the bands he is no longer playing with.
They've changed it since rumbo's (and my) post. Originally DT was below LTE, below AMOB, below A7X and down next to Bigelf.
:lol
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:lol Fair enough. Those crazy MP.com mods.
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The new ordering is totally fine, yeah. It was the old one that made you think "whoa, apparently DT belongs in the cover band section of this list".
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This is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLRo9RT539k
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This is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLRo9RT539k
He did a good job of deflecting that last question. I don't blame him though.
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I thought it was pretty lame when the interviewer started asking questions about the DT split. I was very much enjoying the obscure trivia in the interview and was disappointed when it switched gears at the end.
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I thought it was pretty lame when the interviewer started asking questions about the DT split. I was very much enjoying the obscure trivia in the interview and was disappointed when it switched gears at the end.
What??
That was a great interview, and I applaud MP for taking part. He had to know the line of questioning beforehand. I thought regarding the split, they were questions that we have all speculated on, and to hear (and see) it from his POV was great.
I realize MP is not perfect, but I truly miss him.
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If you mid him, click on that link again. He's right there!! :biggrin: :lol
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I realize MP is not perfect, but I truly miss him.
I thought the same after watching that. he's such a cool cucumber
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Same here.
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He did a good job of deflecting that last question. I don't blame him though.
I'd actually say good on him for giving no comment on the most provocative parts of the question and for giving a diplomatic response on the rest. It seems like maybe he has learned a thing or two about PR—he managed to talk a bit about the split without re-igniting anyone's ire.
I realize MP is not perfect, but I truly miss him.
I thought the same after watching that. he's such a cool cucumber
Same.
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I don't miss him in DT, because they've got Mangini now. But I'm really glad I have him in most of Neal Morse related bands and projects, it's so cool to still follow Mike Portnoy. :metal
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He did a good job of deflecting that last question. I don't blame him though.
I'd actually say good on him for giving no comment on the most provocative parts of the question and for giving a diplomatic response on the rest. It seems like maybe he has learned a thing or two about PR—he managed to talk a bit about the split without re-igniting anyone's ire.
He will be back.
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If MM ever needs to leave the band, MP will probably be the first person the band contacts.
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I do not believe that at all.
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If MM ever needs to leave the band, MP will probably be the first person the band contacts.
I would not be so sure of that.
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Can people actually still believe that Portnoy's going to come back?
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He will. And they will play a single show in Indonesia.
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Durm god!
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Can people actually still believe that Portnoy's going to come back?
Eventually, I think he will come back.
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Can people actually still believe that Portnoy's going to come back?
Eventually, I think he will come back.
I think that the things he would need to do to make that happen are not things he will actually do.
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Can people actually still believe that Portnoy's going to come back?
Eventually, I think he will come back.
I think that the things he would need to do to make that happen are not things he will actually do.
Maybe not now. Somewhere down the road though, I think it's quite possible. MP might be a control freak to some extent and a bit capricious with his words and actions, but he's also a pretty cool and outgoing guy. I would like to think at some point he would ultimately want to reconcile with his friends of 25 plus years.
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I agree with Prog Snob that the day will come when he'll want to go back. It's a question of whether the band will take him, which I don't think is a hard "never" like some people do.
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Can people actually still believe that Portnoy's going to come back?
Eventually, I think he will come back.
I think that the things he would need to do to make that happen are not things he will actually do.
Maybe not now. Somewhere down the road though, I think it's quite possible. MP might be a control freak to some extent and a bit capricious with his words and actions, but he's also a pretty cool and outgoing guy. I would like to think at some point he would ultimately want to reconcile with his friends of 25 plus years.
Perhaps, but that doesn't mean that they will want him back in the band.
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Can people actually still believe that Portnoy's going to come back?
Eventually, I think he will come back.
I think that the things he would need to do to make that happen are not things he will actually do.
Maybe not now. Somewhere down the road though, I think it's quite possible. MP might be a control freak to some extent and a bit capricious with his words and actions, but he's also a pretty cool and outgoing guy. I would like to think at some point he would ultimately want to reconcile with his friends of 25 plus years.
Perhaps, but that doesn't mean that they will want him back in the band.
I think it's possible. None of the guys seem like the type to be too good for forgiveness and second chances.
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Forgiveness doesn't mean that they will want him back in the band.
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Forgiveness doesn't mean that they will want him back in the band.
If they could hear their last couple albums with someone elses ears and thoughts they'd want him back already.
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One thing we learned from MP's departure is that nothing is impossible. Therefore, if MP ever comes back, I'll be happy and content with it. They're doing fine whoever the drummer is.
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Forgiveness doesn't mean that they will want him back in the band.
If they could hear their last couple albums with someone elses ears and thoughts they'd want him back already.
Don't you mean with your ears? I, for one, prefer them to the latter-day Portnoy albums.
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One thing we learned from MP's departure is that nothing is impossible. Therefore, if MP ever comes back, I'll be happy and content with it. They're doing fine whoever the drummer is.
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There are many examples of embittered former band members returning to the fold. Ritchie Blackmore, Ozzy, Michael Schencker just to name a few.
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There are many examples of embittered former band members returning to the fold. Ritchie Blackmore, Ozzy, Michael Schencker just to name a few.
Can't say Blackmore and Schenker are what I'd cite as positives in those examples. :lol
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There are many examples of embittered former band members returning to the fold. Ritchie Blackmore, Ozzy, Michael Schencker just to name a few.
Can't say Blackmore and Schenker are what I'd cite as positives in those examples. :lol
No, but they did happen. And in Blackmore's case, we got Perfect Strangers from it, one of their best IMO.
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There are many examples of embittered former band members returning to the fold. Ritchie Blackmore, Ozzy, Michael Schencker just to name a few.
Can't say Blackmore and Schenker are what I'd cite as positives in those examples. :lol
No, but they did happen. And in Blackmore's case, we got Perfect Strangers from it, one of their best IMO.
Yeah, and in Schenker's case, we got Walk On Water from it, one of their best IMO.
And not for nothing, but A Different Kind Of Truth is pretty damned good.
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I think it's kinda strange how convinced some people are that MP will never be back in the band. Some way more unlikely reunions have happened. On top of that, I can't really think of any bands who had a key member leave and never get back together in some capacity. I'd be very shocked if we don't see MP in DT again, at least for one reunion show or something.
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I think it's kinda strange how people seem to think--based on absolutely NOTHING--that MP being back in DT is pretty much a done deal.
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I agree with both Mosh and bosk. At this point I'd say it's a toss-up. Ultimately though I'm not too worried about it because both DT and MP are doing good things right now.
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I think the whole discussion is ridiculous.
Could he at some point in the future play with DT again? maybe.
Could he never play with DT again? maybe.
In 15 years, who knows what circumstances may present. At this point, however, the point seems kind of mute, doesn't it?
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If he does return to DT, I wonder if he'll be able to do Manginis drum parts, cause guaranteed the guys would want to play songs made with MM.
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I agree with both Mosh and bosk. At this point I'd say it's a toss-up. Ultimately though I'm not too worried about it because both DT and MP are doing good things right now.
Although it is far from impossible, I would not remotely consider it a "toss up" either. The members of DT have stated that they are clearly not interested. Add to that the fact that there is no vacancy and not even the slightest indication that there is likely to be a vacancy in the foreseeable future. Unless and until there is at least some small indication that the parties involved are even remotely interested in it happening, the default is "it ain't gonna happen." Could that change? Yup. But as of right now, there is zero indication that anyone wants it to, and many indicators that they do not. It is not even close to being a "toss up" right now.
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In 15 years, who knows what circumstances may present. At this point, however, the point seems kind of mute, doesn't it?
Well, points are always mute because they don't have tongues. But more importantly, I think this point is moot.
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If he does return to DT, I wonder if he'll be able to do Manginis drum parts, cause guaranteed the guys would want to play songs made with MM.
I imagine for the most part he'd just create his own drum parts.
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In 15 years, who knows what circumstances may present. At this point, however, the point seems kind of mute, doesn't it?
Well, points are always mute because they don't have tongues. But more importantly, I think this point is moot.
:facepalm:
That's what I get for installing the Kingshmegland autocorrector app on my phone!
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In 15 years, who knows what circumstances may present. At this point, however, the point seems kind of mute, doesn't it?
Well, points are always mute because they don't have tongues. But more importantly, I think this point is moot.
:facepalm:
That's what I get for installing the Kingshmegland autocorrector app on my phone!
My D+ spelling senses went off. BTW, It's so fun to see someone who loves to point out my faux paux, take one on the chin. :lol
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Many of these "let's get past members back in the band" reunions are cash-grabs. I don't see the DT guys going down that road. I imagine when they hang it up, they will hang it up for good. At least fortheir DT careers. They might, and some likely will, go on to other musical projects. And if one or more of them participate in some fashion with MP, I can see this happening.
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In 15 years, who knows what circumstances may present. At this point, however, the point seems kind of mute, doesn't it?
Well, points are always mute because they don't have tongues. But more importantly, I think this point is moot.
:facepalm:
That's what I get for installing the Kingshmegland autocorrector app on my phone!
My D+ spelling senses went off. BTW, It's so fun to see someone who loves to point out my faux paux, take one on the chin. :lol
:metal
Dude, it's faux pas! :lol
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Many of these "let's get past members back in the band" reunions are cash-grabs. I don't see the DT guys going down that road.
Yes, excellent point. I started to type out something along these lines, but couldn't figure out how to word it properly.
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Damn auto correct! :rollin
God dammit. At least I know what it means. :lol
Also, I'm with you Tim. Why do people dwell on the past?
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I know this has been said before, but being a fan of Dream Theater is just fun again. It became too much of the Mike Portnoy Show in the last few years from a PR standpoint, and while the others don't do as many online updates and "especially special" thinks as Portnoy used to, it's fun seeing the band be a real band again and having fun. Hell, just look at that bloopers video of JLB and JP. :lol :lol
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There are many examples of embittered former band members returning to the fold. Ritchie Blackmore, Ozzy, Michael Schencker just to name a few.
Can't say Blackmore and Schenker are what I'd cite as positives in those examples. :lol
No, but they did happen. And in Blackmore's case, we got Perfect Strangers from it, one of their best IMO.
And what eventually happened? Blackmore and Schenker left again, and never went back. In those cases you got two or three good albums total (depending on your opinion of House of Blue Light) and then they were gone. So, yeah...not exactly the best examples to cite for someone coming back to a band after leaving.
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Jaq, what exactly are you looking for here?
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He's just trying to keep the discussion going so King will post again ;D
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In 15 years, who knows what circumstances may present. At this point, however, the point seems kind of mute, doesn't it?
In 15 years, Jordan will be 73. Hard to say what he will be doing, but I just don't see MP reunion tours being part of it.
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He's just trying to keep the discussion going so King will post again ;D
You bastard! :lol
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Forgiveness doesn't mean that they will want him back in the band.
If they could hear their last couple albums with someone elses ears and thoughts they'd want him back already.
Snap! I agree with you.
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He's just trying to keep the discussion going so King will post again ;D
You bastard! :lol
Isn't that supposed to be "Take that Beethoven you deaf bastard?"
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If Mike Mangini left the band tomorrow, I think there would be a bigger chance of them finding another new drummer rather than bringing Portnoy back.
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In 15 years, who knows what circumstances may present. At this point, however, the point seems kind of mute, doesn't it?
Well, points are always mute because they don't have tongues. But more importantly, I think this point is moot.
:facepalm:
That's what I get for installing the Kingshmegland autocorrector app on my phone!
:lol
I think it's kinda strange how people seem to think--based on absolutely NOTHING--that MP being back in DT is pretty much a done deal.
History tells us nothing is impossible.
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In 15 years, who knows what circumstances may present. At this point, however, the point seems kind of mute, doesn't it?
Well, points are always mute because they don't have tongues. But more importantly, I think this point is moot.
:facepalm:
That's what I get for installing the Kingshmegland autocorrector app on my phone!
:lol
I think it's kinda strange how people seem to think--based on absolutely NOTHING--that MP being back in DT is pretty much a done deal.
History tells us nothing is impossible.
Are you implying that nothing is in fact something?
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I think it's kinda strange how people seem to think--based on absolutely NOTHING--that MP being back in DT is pretty much a done deal.
History tells us nothing is impossible.
Are you implying that nothing is in fact something?
It would be something, wouldn't it?
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Not if it's nothing. Nothing is Nothing.
Que?
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Not if it's nothing. Nothing is Nothing.
Que?
So then I'm glad it's something.
Como?
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I agree with both Mosh and bosk. At this point I'd say it's a toss-up. Ultimately though I'm not too worried about it because both DT and MP are doing good things right now.
Although it is far from impossible, I would not remotely consider it a "toss up" either. The members of DT have stated that they are clearly not interested. Add to that the fact that there is no vacancy and not even the slightest indication that there is likely to be a vacancy in the foreseeable future. Unless and until there is at least some small indication that the parties involved are even remotely interested in it happening, the default is "it ain't gonna happen." Could that change? Yup. But as of right now, there is zero indication that anyone wants it to, and many indicators that they do not. It is not even close to being a "toss up" right now.
In my mind, I guess it's somewhat close to that because of all that could potentially happen over the next little while and because of the history between those guys. Nevertheless, I totally understand what you're saying and would actually put the odds at somewhat less than 50% (but not at something ridiculously low either).
I think it's kinda strange how people seem to think--based on absolutely NOTHING--that MP being back in DT is pretty much a done deal.
Also, I think (in Prog Snob's defense... maybe), that it's totally possible for someone to just have a sense about something and be pretty confident. Maybe he doesn't actually think it's a done deal, but he has a really strong feeling that MP will be back. He could be wrong, for sure, but... I could definitely imagine there being an Iron Maiden fan in 1997 being really really confident that Bruce would be back getting told by everyone else "it probably isn't going to happen," and coming out being right in the end. Doesn't mean it'll happen, but I guess some people just get a sense about something like this and can't easily be swayed on the subject... and sometimes they turn out to be right.
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He's just trying to keep the discussion going so King will post again ;D
You bastard! :lol
:rollin
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In a mirror universe, Portnoy, Roades and Skolnik are financial advisors:
https://ir.pennymacfinancial.com/Mobile/file.aspx?IID=4376176&FID=26400394
I am pleased to announce that Steve Skolnik, Kevin Portnoy and Bob Roades have joined the PennyMac team
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And of course his first name is Kevin. :rollin
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MP should be made aware of this so that him and Skolnik can call their project PennyMac.
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In response to fans commenting on his lack of tweet secrets and tweets Mike Portnoy posted on his board:
The whole ridiculous London Hospital backlash has left a huge sour taste in my mouth…sad really….
I'm trying to cut back on my social media to keep my sanity
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Wow, that took only, what, 5 years? :lol
But of course, still no real remorse in sight. It left a bad taste in *his* mouth.
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Probably a wise move. While he brings most of it on himself, social media loudmouths are so vile and hateful that I know I wouldn't want to deal with that crap either.
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I also assume that quite afew TweetSecret subscribers will unsubscribe now. Not much point to a subscription service when the artist himself says he won't create content anymore.
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While he might cut back, I'm sure he will still use it. If I remember correctly he has to send something out every month or so I think.
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Wow, that took only, what, 5 years? :lol
But of course, still no real remorse in sight. It left a bad taste in *his* mouth.
Yup. Just proves his apology wasn't a real apology. When you only apologize to those you offended, you are not really apologizing. This is proof he isn't remorseful for his actions...just that the situation left a bad taste in his mouth.
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Wow, that took only, what, 5 years? :lol
But of course, still no neal remorse in sight. It left a bad taste in *his* mouth.
:neverusethis:
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:lol
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Blabbermouth picked up that Fact or Fiction interview, and MP started responding to negative comments....
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:rollin. Comedy Gold Jerry ! Gold !
:corn
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Blabbermouth picked up that Fact or Fiction interview, and MP started responding to negative comments....
In fairness, he's not exactly over there creating problems. On 90% of them he's just saying "I'm tired of hearing about this, too, but I get asked what I get asked, and Blabbermouth posts what they post." On the rest he's basically responding to insults with jokes that basically just serve to remind people that he's a human being. He's acting way classier than most of the people in that comment section who are trashing him.
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He is handling well, but overall I think it's an example of a time where he should just put down the phone or laptop and just walk away. It only brings out the negativity more when the "trolls" see that they are getting under his skin
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I agree that it's probably not the best idea, but it's not like he's out of line or anything.
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No, I guess I've just never seen an artist respond back to comments in an article about themselves on Blabbermouth :lol
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No, I guess I've just never seen an artist respond back to comments in an article about themselves on Blabbermouth :lol
I see it sometimes, usually most other artists I see just handle it better. But to Mike's credit he's handling it decently enough so far on blabbermouth.
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While he's keeping it together this time, the very fact that he's entertaining the trolls gives him bad publicity. Just like with the KM stuff back in the day, he still thinks that if he pushes his viewpoint enough, people will follow.
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While he's keeping it together this time, the very fact that he's entertaining the trolls gives him bad publicity. Just like with the KM stuff back in the day, he still thinks that if he pushes his viewpoint enough, people will follow.
Rumbo, I get criticizing MP from time to time, and I consider you one of the more intelligent posters here, but your constant badgering is kind of off putting.
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wow! I just checked it out. He literally just went down the list of comments and pasted a stock answer about 10 different times. How very effective.
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I'm with TAC. What he did on Blabbermouth may not be your (speaking broadly here, not just at one person) style and it may not be what you would have done, but it was perfectly legitimate and harmless. Jumping on the guy over this just seems petty to me.
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While he's keeping it together this time, the very fact that he's entertaining the trolls gives him bad publicity. Just like with the KM stuff back in the day, he still thinks that if he pushes his viewpoint enough, people will follow.
Rumbo, I get criticizing MP from time to time, and I consider you one of the more intelligent posters here, but your constant badgering is kind of off putting.
Sorry, I actually realized the same thing after I posted that. Been a long week with not-so-great sleep in mediocre hotels. I apologize.
BTW, I was actually pleasantly surprised at how levelheaded he responded to the interview questions. It's just that he has a knack for undermining his own PR achievements a minute later, this time by responding to Blabbermouth posters. I don't know how much MP is familiar with Blabbermouth, but one should never engage with Blabbermouth posters. Like, ever :lol
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I don't understand why he thought any of that was a good idea.
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*edited for my capriciousness*
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Ouch, dude.
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Ouch, dude.
Too harsh?
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Ouch, dude.
Too harsh?
Close to home, bro.
No problem. :)
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That's an insult to anybody who participates at the Special Olympics.
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Ouch, dude.
Too harsh?
Close to home, bro.
No problem. :)
Me too, kind of. I fixed it.
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Don't you mean with your ears? I, for one, prefer them to the latter-day Portnoy albums.
Not just mine, I'd say a majority of the DT fans probably feel similar. At least most of the comments I've read since his departure have lead me to believe that.
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MP: 'My OCD is a blessing and a curse' (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/mike_portnoy_my_ocd_is_a_blessing_and_a_curse.html).
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In before the DTF couch doctors
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People who like to make lists are really annoying :lol
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A few years back I went to a museum in Boston, and they had this banner saying "Monomania is the key to success". Kinda rung true (or maybe I just liked using it as an excuse why I'm not famous :lol )
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https://bravewords.com/news/twisted-sister-announce-forty-and-fuck-it-2016-tour-with-mike-portnoy
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no way
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MP: 'My OCD is a blessing and a curse' (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/mike_portnoy_my_ocd_is_a_blessing_and_a_curse.html).
"I don't need to be professionally diagnosed to know there's something going on there!"
That just confirms what many of us suspected all along: he has never been diagnosed as OCD, which makes it insulting for him to say he has it, since there are people out there with actual mental disorders who need help.
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It's not OCD. He just has control issues. My daughter, who goes to a special school, has habits that could be considered OCD. She can't leave the house without the television being shut off, even if someone else is still home watching it. She goes into a fit like Rainman did when he couldn't fly Qantas and she's only 5. Things need to be a specific way with her or she has a fit. So yeah, Mike doesn't have OCD issues. He has control issues. Being a perfectionist has nothing to do with OCD. Besides if Mike is such a perfectionist, can he explain Never Enough?
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He also says "I have discussed it with doctors." He does not divulge the contents of those conversations.
As someone with professionally diagnosed (albeit mild) OCD, can I say that I don't mind if he says he has it, and that I believe that it's certainly possible that he does? OCD can vary dramatically in severity and often has symptoms that would not be readily visible to fans of a rock musician. In fact, it would be totally possible for someone to have mild OCD and not even have anyone besides their family suspect it.
Edit: Forgot to mention that another good reason for me to believe him is the accuracy of Constant Motion.
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https://bravewords.com/news/twisted-sister-announce-forty-and-fuck-it-2016-tour-with-mike-portnoy
For realsies?
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In before the DTF couch doctors
Congratulations. It appears you just snuck in!
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Sooo don't know if it actually belongs here, but Next To None signed with Inside Out and announced their debut.
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In before the DTF couch doctors
Spot on! :lol
https://bravewords.com/news/twisted-sister-announce-forty-and-fuck-it-2016-tour-with-mike-portnoy
Cool! Good for him. :metal
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I'm always skeptical of anybody that self diagnosis a mental disorder then proceeds to use it as a peg on which to hang things that would otherwise be considered major personality flaws.
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https://bravewords.com/news/twisted-sister-announce-forty-and-fuck-it-2016-tour-with-mike-portnoy
For realsies?
Yeah, MP mentioned it on Twitter last night.
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I'm always skeptical of anybody that self diagnosis a mental disorder then proceeds to use it as a peg on which to hang things that would otherwise be considered major personality flaws.
That's what I was thinking, too. I say I have OCD tendencies but I don't think I have full-blown OCD. I look at my daughter and I see someone having OCD to the point where any deviation from her ways causes uncontrollable outbursts. This is why she is in a special school that caters to her needs. So someone who cannot function beyond what is familiar to them is someone with severe OCD. I think, like I mentioned above, MP just has control issues. Things have to be his way. He tries to sugarcoat it and say he's a perfectionist but I don't see it that way.
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I could definitely imagine there being an Iron Maiden fan in 1997 being really really confident that Bruce would be back getting told by everyone else "it probably isn't going to happen," and coming out being right in the end.
Current DT and 90's Maiden are very different situations. The backlash against IM without Bruce was much more prevalent and unanimous than whatever backlash there's been against DT without Portnoy. I don't think DT sees a real reason to change the status quo as it exists now.
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I'm not saying they'll fire Mangini to bring back Portnoy like Maiden did with Blaze. I'm saying that in both situations there existed a point where it seemed impossible that the old guy would come back into the band, but that with Maiden it did—and that's why I wouldn't exactly count out Portnoy coming back someday.
As for OCD, I won't say anything more on the subject because there's no way this results in a fruitful conversation. I just wanted to throw my chip in earlier as "guy diagnosed with mild OCD who believes MP could also possibly have mild OCD."
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I frankly don't think it's a big deal. Sure, I'm absolutely certain the guy doesn't have OCD, and that he's probably rather "anal retentive" in some fashion.
Of course, who calls themselves "anal retentive" publicly, as it is almost exclusively negative in connotation. So, he uses the term OCD, sort of how people use "retarded" in a sentence like "lol, I guess I'm a bit retarded when it comes to XYZ".
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I'm not saying they'll fire Mangini to bring back Portnoy like Maiden did with Blaze. I'm saying that in both situations there existed a point where it seemed impossible that the old guy would come back into the band, but that with Maiden it did—and that's why I wouldn't exactly count out Portnoy coming back someday.
Did there exist any acrimony between Bruce and Ari? Much less, acrimony to the degree there seems to be between MP and a couple of members of DT? I told a chum the other night that if there were to be some sort of reunion it'd be LTE, since there seems to be no ill-will between him and JR, and certainly far less (if any) with JP. Just a hunch, but I suspect JM and JLB would rather pack it up than get back into a band situation with MP.
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Maybe I missed what was said, but when did it become obvious that there was bad blood between MP and JM. I know of the issues with JLB and MP.
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Maybe I missed what was said, but when did it become obvious that there was bad blood between MP and JM. I know of the issues with JLB and MP.
It has NEVER been said. Just an inference. And I think the primary reasons people infer that are: (1) JM and MP never appeared close, but especially in the latter years. (2) People assume that MP was the primary driver behind the rule about submitting vocal melodies with lyrics, which we know primarily impacted JM as a lyric writer, and the fact that JM did not submit lyrics for a long time after that leads some to believe that perhaps JM was a bit resentful. (3) MP said after the split that one of his examples of the band being burned out and not functioning as a unit anymore was a certain member not spending time or even eating with the band, and just hanging out on his couch (or something like that), and the inference that it was JM (which is probably correct). (4) MP saying, indirectly (i.e., without naming names), that the only ones he left on good terms with were JP and Jordan.
Personally, I have never gotten the impression that there is any "bad blood" between them, but the circumstantial evidence would seem to indicate that they are distant and, even if they were in the same band again, would likely not have much direct interaction outside of the necessary. But that is largely speculation on my part.
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I could definitely imagine there being an Iron Maiden fan in 1997 being really really confident that Bruce would be back getting told by everyone else "it probably isn't going to happen," and coming out being right in the end.
Current DT and 90's Maiden are very different situations. The backlash against IM without Bruce was much more prevalent and unanimous than whatever backlash there's been against DT without Portnoy. I don't think DT sees a real reason to change the status quo as it exists now.
Maybe not at the moment, but if their popularity begins to fade significantly, then I can see them going back to MP and hyping up the reunion. For those who are doubting this ever happening, I can't help but point to the Van Halen situation. Eddie and DLR had been at each others throats for years and it seemed impossible for them ever to regroup. Even when they appeared together in 1996, it was completely hard to believe, and then it fell apart. But here we are now with them doing 2 tours, a studio album and now their ramping up for yet another tour. So anything's possible. In addition to that, VH's popularity had started to wane and many were putting pressure on them to regroup with DLR. So I could see the same thing happening with DT if they started to lose their audience.
And on that note, I wonder if it's beginning to happen already. A friend of mine in the Netherlands told me about how DT's been announced for this year's Bospop festival, which is no surprise - each time they've appeared since 2000, they've apparently headlined. This year, they're not. And who is headlining? Steven Wilson! Now if it were a bigger name, I could understand them being lower on the bill, but it seems bizarre that Steven Wilson (solo or with Porcupine Tree) would be higher up in the billing than DT. Not only that, but this same friend was commenting that he found it a bit suspicious that they played an "exclusive" club date in Tilberg, at the 013, the same venue that Neal Morse and Transatlantic have been frequenting for years. That in and of itself may not mean much, but at the following show in Gelsenkirchen, Germany, they played the Amphitheater there and according to him, "the attendance was extremely poor". Time will tell. But if this is a sign of things to come, then I can see the eventual return of MP. If these things are just a fluke, then I doubt MP will be asked to come back, even if MM eventually decides to quit DT on his own.
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I frankly don't think it's a big deal. Sure, I'm absolutely certain the guy doesn't have OCD, and that he's probably rather "anal retentive" in some fashion.
Of course, who calls themselves "anal retentive" publicly, as it is almost exclusively negative in connotation. So, he uses the term OCD, sort of how people use "retarded" in a sentence like "lol, I guess I'm a bit retarded when it comes to XYZ".
While it's not something he broadcasts a lot, when I've interviewed him in the past (3 times - 2002, 2004, 2009), with the detailed questions I'd ask him and the answers he'd give, he'd comment about how each of these interviews would be the most anal retentive interviews he'd give for the year. Not that this was directed solely at me, but he was commenting about himself as well.
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Maybe I missed what was said, but when did it become obvious that there was bad blood between MP and JM. I know of the issues with JLB and MP.
It has NEVER been said. Just an inference. And I think the primary reasons people infer that are: (1) JM and MP never appeared close, but especially in the latter years. (2) People assume that MP was the primary driver behind the rule about submitting vocal melodies with lyrics, which we know primarily impacted JM as a lyric writer, and the fact that JM did not submit lyrics for a long time after that leads some to believe that perhaps JM was a bit resentful. (3) MP said after the split that one of his examples of the band being burned out and not functioning as a unit anymore was a certain member not spending time or even eating with the band, and just hanging out on his couch (or something like that), and the inference that it was JM (which is probably correct). (4) MP saying, indirectly (i.e., without naming names), that the only ones he left on good terms with were JP and Jordan.
Personally, I have never gotten the impression that there is any "bad blood" between them, but the circumstantial evidence would seem to indicate that they are distant and, even if they were in the same band again, would likely not have much direct interaction outside of the necessary. But that is largely speculation on my part.
I understand things more clearer now. I suppose the inferences are definitely there as far as JM goes.
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And on that note, I wonder if it's beginning to happen already. A friend of mine in the Netherlands told me about how DT's been announced for this year's Bospop festival, which is no surprise - each time they've appeared since 2000, they've apparently headlined. This year, they're not. And who is headlining? Steven Wilson! Now if it were a bigger name, I could understand them being lower on the bill, but it seems bizarre that Steven Wilson (solo or with Porcupine Tree) would be higher up in the billing than DT. Not only that, but this same friend was commenting that he found it a bit suspicious that they played an "exclusive" club date in Tilberg, at the 013, the same venue that Neal Morse and Transatlantic have been frequenting for years. That in and of itself may not mean much, but at the following show in Gelsenkirchen, Germany, they played the Amphitheater there and according to him, "the attendance was extremely poor". Time will tell. But if this is a sign of things to come, then I can see the eventual return of MP. If these things are just a fluke, then I doubt MP will be asked to come back, even if MM eventually decides to quit DT on his own.
My brother went to the same concert in Gelsenkirchen, and yeah, he said it was very poorly attended. I think someone from the UK said something similar about a gig there.
The gig in Boston was sold out I think, but that was achieved mostly by a very low ticket price ($55). Rush tickets go for $100 here. Also, any metric I've seen (Google Trends, DTF thread posting) shows people's interest in DT is waning.
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Maybe not at the moment, but if their popularity begins to fade significantly, then I can see them going back to MP and hyping up the reunion. For those who are doubting this ever happening, I can't help but point to the Van Halen situation. Eddie and DLR had been at each others throats for years and it seemed impossible for them ever to regroup. Even when they appeared together in 1996, it was completely hard to believe, and then it fell apart. But here we are now with them doing 2 tours, a studio album and now their ramping up for yet another tour. So anything's possible. In addition to that, VH's popularity had started to wane and many were putting pressure on them to regroup with DLR. So I could see the same thing happening with DT if they started to lose their audience.
Half the reasons these bands have a big reunion is not just because their popularity is waning but because specifically their finances are waning and they need the reunion to continue to live their extravagant lifestyle. DT doesn't have that problem. I would bet they have their houses paid off. They don't dig fancy cars (although James did just get a Cadillac, not that it is *that* fancy). Since most of the guys are relatively private we don't know about any expensive vacations they go on although James does like to go skiing. So all evidence points to them living a very stable lifestyle. They can afford to lose some audience.
With that said, I think that is WAY overstated. I have never been to a sold out Dream Theater show, 60% of which were with Portnoy behind the drums. We know DT played a very poorly attended show in Columbus (???) recently which was their 3rd show in Ohio within a few months in an already small market. I was just looking at the CiM DVD and they had audience shots from every show. Very few seemed sold out and a handful had huge chunks of seats empty (and most pictures didnt show the balcony which it is safe to say had more empty seats than the floor).
If anything, DT has lost some old fans (which was happening with every album while Portnoy was in the band) but they have also gained some new ones (which seems to happen with every new album too).
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And on that note, I wonder if it's beginning to happen already. A friend of mine in the Netherlands told me about how DT's been announced for this year's Bospop festival, which is no surprise - each time they've appeared since 2000, they've apparently headlined. This year, they're not. And who is headlining? Steven Wilson! Now if it were a bigger name, I could understand them being lower on the bill, but it seems bizarre that Steven Wilson (solo or with Porcupine Tree) would be higher up in the billing than DT. Not only that, but this same friend was commenting that he found it a bit suspicious that they played an "exclusive" club date in Tilberg, at the 013, the same venue that Neal Morse and Transatlantic have been frequenting for years. That in and of itself may not mean much, but at the following show in Gelsenkirchen, Germany, they played the Amphitheater there and according to him, "the attendance was extremely poor". Time will tell. But if this is a sign of things to come, then I can see the eventual return of MP. If these things are just a fluke, then I doubt MP will be asked to come back, even if MM eventually decides to quit DT on his own.
My brother went to the same concert in Gelsenkirchen, and yeah, he said it was very poorly attended. I think someone from the UK said something similar about a gig there.
The gig in Boston was sold out I think, but that was achieved mostly by a very low ticket price ($55). Rush tickets go for $100 here. Also, any metric I've seen (Google Trends, DTF thread posting) shows people's interest in DT is waning.
Lets be honest also that Rush only pulls in between 9000 to 10,000 a show when they were doing 5000 more in the early 2000's.
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If they start losing their audience, and kick MM out to bring in MP to try to win their fans back, all they're going to do is lose MM as a friend, and then, well, go back to roars and butt rock I guess.
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I don't think the VH comparison is a good one, Scotty, for several reasons:
1) VH is far more popular than DT has ever come close to being. Their tours are cash cows.
2) Getting Roth back was the only thing they could do that fans would accept, especially with Hagar and Anthony gone. The Cherone experiment proved that. I doubt DT will ever be in a situation where it is "Get Portnoy back or bust."
Also, I don't think SW headlining over DT is that unusual. He seems to be pretty popular over in Europe and especially the Netherlands - Hand. Cannot. Erase. debuted at number 2 over there. In the States, it might seem odd, but over there, not at all.
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I enjoyed the VHIII concert more than the 2004 Sammy lead tour and the stuff I've seen now of Dave.
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I would like to think that DT are above such calculated personnel changes just for the purpose of revenue. Something would have to happen to MM for DT to consider bringing back MP. And even though it would be returning to his own band, that would bring it up to #3 for "replacing departed drummer".
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Spinal Tap has them beat though.
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I do wonder whether that has crossed his mind, that this is his second tour replacing a drummer who died.
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I do wonder whether that has crossed his mind, that this is his second tour replacing a drummer who died.
I would think it would have. I mean, it is such an obvious thing that it would seem odd to have NOT crossed his mind.
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I'm curious as to how much that tour will actually draw. I mean, Twisted Sister?
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I don't think the VH comparison is a good one, Scotty, for several reasons:
1) VH is far more popular than DT has ever come close to being. Their tours are cash cows.
2) Getting Roth back was the only thing they could do that fans would accept, especially with Hagar and Anthony gone. The Cherone experiment proved that. I doubt DT will ever be in a situation where it is "Get Portnoy back or bust."
Also, I don't think SW headlining over DT is that unusual. He seems to be pretty popular over in Europe and especially the Netherlands - Hand. Cannot. Erase. debuted at number 2 over there. In the States, it might seem odd, but over there, not at all.
Perhaps the VH analogy is that VH supported Bon Jovi in Europe , something that would never happen in the US.
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Maybe I missed what was said, but when did it become obvious that there was bad blood between MP and JM. I know of the issues with JLB and MP.
It has NEVER been said. Just an inference. And I think the primary reasons people infer that are: (1) JM and MP never appeared close, but especially in the latter years. (2) People assume that MP was the primary driver behind the rule about submitting vocal melodies with lyrics, which we know primarily impacted JM as a lyric writer, and the fact that JM did not submit lyrics for a long time after that leads some to believe that perhaps JM was a bit resentful. (3) MP said after the split that one of his examples of the band being burned out and not functioning as a unit anymore was a certain member not spending time or even eating with the band, and just hanging out on his couch (or something like that), and the inference that it was JM (which is probably correct). (4) MP saying, indirectly (i.e., without naming names), that the only ones he left on good terms with were JP and Jordan.
Personally, I have never gotten the impression that there is any "bad blood" between them, but the circumstantial evidence would seem to indicate that they are distant and, even if they were in the same band again, would likely not have much direct interaction outside of the necessary. But that is largely speculation on my part.
There are those and a few others I can think of. In particular I seem to recall a commentary track (don't recall which one, I don't generally listen to them) when JM lamented something and Portnoy pretty openly mocked him about it, almost to the point of belittlement. Even way back then I was thinking there didn't seem to be much fondness between them. I know MP also mentioned how lucky he was to have played with some of the greatest bass players on Earth, mentioning a long list of them with JM conspicuously omitted.
However, what I was probably intending to say was that JM is almost certainly far happier now with MP out of the picture. Anybody who has had to work with overbearing coworkers knows how amazing it is when they finally leave. Nobody would want to go back to that, and I don't figure JM is any exception.
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There are those and a few others I can think of. In particular I seem to recall a commentary track (don't recall which one, I don't generally listen to them) when JM lamented something and Portnoy pretty openly mocked him about it, almost to the point of belittlement.
I swear DTF has a different copy of LSFNY to me, because MP didn't do anything close to mocking on that commentary. All he did was point out that they couldn't write albums the way they used to, something which as far as I can tell hasn't changed since MP left.
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I swear DTF has a different copy of LSFNY to me, because MP didn't do anything close to mocking on that commentary. All he did was point out that they couldn't write albums the way they used to, something which as far as I can tell hasn't changed since MP left.
The comment being referred to is on the When Dream and Day Reunite commentary when John Myung said he'd love to go back to when they used to just get together and jam just to jam and see what comes out and Mike Portnoy countered with how things are different now. On the surface it doesn't seem like anything but it did feel like MP wasn't being very nice about it.
As for things not writing the way they used to, there was also a video clip for A Dramatic Turn of Events where JM said that he and John Petrucci *were* writing how they used to (ie. jamming just to jam) and how he's enjoying that.
They don't need to jam for days and days but if they live close together I'm sure they could squeeze in a few hours every other day just letting things flow and then go into the studio to do the actual writing and recording, especially now that all of their kids are old enough to be home alone.
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Oh right that one was WDADRU. My bad! Been a while since I listened to them (especially as I have no other reason to watch WDADRU besides commentary).
Still, all MP did was discuss why they didn't do it that way. There was no mocking or shutting down as some people say.
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I swear DTF has a different copy of LSFNY to me, because MP didn't do anything close to mocking on that commentary. All he did was point out that they couldn't write albums the way they used to, something which as far as I can tell hasn't changed since MP left.
:lol
It's been 10+ years since I saw that, but I remember being somewhat surprised by it. Didn't he say something like "yeah, we could all move back into our moms' basements?" Moreover, I think he went back to it like 15 minutes later just to make another joke at JM's expense. What struck me wasn't so much MP's comments, but how JM just sounded trivialized. He doesn't appear to be one of those people that'll stand up to overbearing personalities, so it just had that really uncomfortable awkwardness.
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It's been a while since I saw it too, but all I remember taking from it was "oh cool, JM is talking!" :lol
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Oh right that one was WDADRU. My bad! Been a while since I listened to them (especially as I have no other reason to watch WDADRU besides commentary).
Still, all MP did was discuss why they didn't do it that way. There was no mocking or shutting down as some people say.
You're right he didn't mock JM but he was pretty dismissive.
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I'm curious as to how much that tour will actually draw. I mean, Twisted Sister?
Goood question. I guess they were somewhat big in the US, right? From my perception it would likely be a "middle-aged people show up at the nearest casino venue to hear We're Not Gonna Take It once more" type of tour, but hey, those tours probably produce a good amount of cash.
EDIT: Actually, I was totally unaware of TS' catalog. I just listened to their best of album, but it's pretty bad, except I Wanna Rock and aforementioned We're Not Gonna Take It. I appreciate MP's willingness to step in, but man, the music is really not good.
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I'm curious as to how much that tour will actually draw. I mean, Twisted Sister?
Goood question. I guess they were somewhat big in the US, right? From my perception it would likely be a "middle-aged people show up at the nearest casino venue to hear We're Not Gonna Take It once more" type of tour, but hey, those tours probably produce a good amount of cash.
EDIT: Actually, I was totally unaware of TS' catalog. I just listened to their best of album, but it's pretty bad, except I Wanna Rock and aforementioned We're Not Gonna Take It. I appreciate MP's willingness to step in, but man, the music is really not good.
As I recall they put on a pretty good show. And while I probably wouldn't expect much from their best of material, since it tends to be all the anthemic stuff that made them popular, they did have some cool tunes. I always though Burn in Hell was great. Hell, if they came through Dallas I'd probably check it out just for that with MP playing/singing background.
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The tour will get a handful of fogeys. They're smart to play LV and NY, where they can probably drum up pretty good crowds.
Saw Twisted Sister in and they were amazing. AJ Pero was a beast.
And yes Bart, Burn In Hell :metal
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I'm curious as to how much that tour will actually draw. I mean, Twisted Sister?
Goood question. I guess they were somewhat big in the US, right? From my perception it would likely be a "middle-aged people show up at the nearest casino venue to hear We're Not Gonna Take It once more" type of tour, but hey, those tours probably produce a good amount of cash.
EDIT: Actually, I was totally unaware of TS' catalog. I just listened to their best of album, but it's pretty bad, except I Wanna Rock and aforementioned We're Not Gonna Take It. I appreciate MP's willingness to step in, but man, the music is really not good.
As I recall they put on a pretty good show. And while I probably wouldn't expect much from their best of material, since it tends to be all the anthemic stuff that made them popular, they did have some cool tunes. I always though Burn in Hell was great. Hell, if they came through Dallas I'd probably check it out just for that with MP playing/singing background.
I can count the bands I really dislike on two hands (meaning I give a lot of music the benefit of the doubt) but Twisted is always at the top of the list in terms of bands that frustrate me. I can do without the cartoonish costumes, and for me, "We're Not Gonna Take It" might as well be from another band. That second record ("You Can't Kill Rock And Roll") is about as killer a metal record as you're going to find. That was a bad ass record when it came out, and it is a bad ass record right now. Thankfully, they know that, and live sets play the two hits, but dig deep as well. For a headline show, I would expect 15 to 20 songs, equally spread across the first three records, with a cover or two. They are known to do an AC/DC song now and again, and they regularly play "It's Only Rock and Roll" by the Stones. There may be a lone tune from "Come Out And Play" (either "I Believe in Rock and Roll" or "The Fire Still Burns") but I wouldn't bet pinks on it.
But the rest of the set will be just about anything from Stay Hungry (Burn In Hell and Horror-teria are givens), "The Kids are Back" and "You Can't Stop Rock and Roll" from the second album, and "Shoot 'Em Down" and "Under The Blade" from the first album, with assorted other songs thrown in.
The great thing is, this is not a $100 ticket either. You should be able to get decent seats for $40, $45, and trust me, Dee Snider is in Mike's class when it comes to hardest working men in rock. The guy gives 100% every time, no questions asked.
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Maybe I missed what was said, but when did it become obvious that there was bad blood between MP and JM. I know of the issues with JLB and MP.
It has NEVER been said. Just an inference. And I think the primary reasons people infer that are: (1) JM and MP never appeared close, but especially in the latter years. (2) People assume that MP was the primary driver behind the rule about submitting vocal melodies with lyrics, which we know primarily impacted JM as a lyric writer, and the fact that JM did not submit lyrics for a long time after that leads some to believe that perhaps JM was a bit resentful. (3) MP said after the split that one of his examples of the band being burned out and not functioning as a unit anymore was a certain member not spending time or even eating with the band, and just hanging out on his couch (or something like that), and the inference that it was JM (which is probably correct). (4) MP saying, indirectly (i.e., without naming names), that the only ones he left on good terms with were JP and Jordan.
Personally, I have never gotten the impression that there is any "bad blood" between them, but the circumstantial evidence would seem to indicate that they are distant and, even if they were in the same band again, would likely not have much direct interaction outside of the necessary. But that is largely speculation on my part.
Perhaps DT is different because of the way it started (college buds, etc.) but the notion of a band having to be "best friends" is both over-rated and perhaps even unwanted. Some of the greatest music in the history of rock was made under the "pressure" of a tense band relationship (Aerosmith? The Stones?) and while I am most likely in the minority, I think some of MP's demandingness resulted in great things for the band. FOR ME, MY OPINION ONLY, I believe James is suffering from this the most; he was the reason I initially was attracted to DT and yet the only song that I really feel he has delivered on post-MP is "This Is The Life". Sometimes people don't like being pushed, but that is what it takes for them to achieve greatness (google "Phil Simms Bill Parcells" for more on that topic).
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Oh right that one was WDADRU. My bad! Been a while since I listened to them (especially as I have no other reason to watch WDADRU besides commentary).
Still, all MP did was discuss why they didn't do it that way. There was no mocking or shutting down as some people say.
Exactly.
FOR ME, MY OPINION ONLY, I believe James is suffering from this the most; he was the reason I initially was attracted to DT and yet the only song that I really feel he has delivered on post-MP is "This Is The Life". Sometimes people don't like being pushed, but that is what it takes for them to achieve greatness (google "Phil Simms Bill Parcells" for more on that topic).
I disagree. Since the split, I feel like there is a noticeable positive difference in James' singing.
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FOR ME, MY OPINION ONLY, I believe James is suffering from this the most; he was the reason I initially was attracted to DT and yet the only song that I really feel he has delivered on post-MP is "This Is The Life". Sometimes people don't like being pushed, but that is what it takes for them to achieve greatness (google "Phil Simms Bill Parcells" for more on that topic).
I disagree. Since the split, I feel like there is a noticeable positive difference in James' singing.
I noticed during the beginning of the ADTOE tour, and I mentioned it here back then, that he seemed much more relaxed on stage.
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Aaabsolutely. I thought it was quite visible how much more comfortable in their skin everybody was in that new configuration.
When MP was still around, I sometimes had the feeling that he was competing with James, maybe in an attempt to compensate whatever he perceived to be lacking in live performance. In the new configuration, James is the undisputed front man, and I feel that undisputed status made him more comfortable with himself on stage.
Album-wise, can't say I have noticed much difference.
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Aaabsolutely. I thought it was quite visible how much more comfortable in their skin everybody was in that new configuration.
When MP was still around, I sometimes had the feeling that he was competing with James, maybe in an attempt to compensate whatever he perceived to be lacking in live performance. In the new configuration, James is the undisputed front man, and I feel that undisputed status made him more comfortable with himself on stage.
Album-wise, can't say I have noticed much difference.
But "comfortable" doesn't necessarily mean "good" or "innovative" or "relevant" or whatever criterion you use to determine "good music". Mick Jagger was "comfortable" on his solo records, without Keef. Steve Tyler was "comfortable" on Rock In A Hard Place, with Perry/Whitford elsewhere. Liam Gallagher is - well, was - presumably "comfortable" out of Oasis and in Beady Eye.
Don't get me wrong; perhaps you feel that his performances are better, and that is fair (to be honest, I didn't see them live on either of the two Mangini tours). But for me, I felt that when faced with a strict or demanding "boss", some people fold, and some people rise to higher levels of achievement.
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I disagree. Since the split, I feel like there is a noticeable positive difference in James' singing.
Not a challenge, just curious to get a feel for your tastes, but what do you feel are the strong entries - purely from a singing standpoint - on the last two records?
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Maybe I missed what was said, but when did it become obvious that there was bad blood between MP and JM. I know of the issues with JLB and MP.
It has NEVER been said. Just an inference. And I think the primary reasons people infer that are: (1) JM and MP never appeared close, but especially in the latter years. (2) People assume that MP was the primary driver behind the rule about submitting vocal melodies with lyrics, which we know primarily impacted JM as a lyric writer, and the fact that JM did not submit lyrics for a long time after that leads some to believe that perhaps JM was a bit resentful. (3) MP said after the split that one of his examples of the band being burned out and not functioning as a unit anymore was a certain member not spending time or even eating with the band, and just hanging out on his couch (or something like that), and the inference that it was JM (which is probably correct). (4) MP saying, indirectly (i.e., without naming names), that the only ones he left on good terms with were JP and Jordan.
Personally, I have never gotten the impression that there is any "bad blood" between them, but the circumstantial evidence would seem to indicate that they are distant and, even if they were in the same band again, would likely not have much direct interaction outside of the necessary. But that is largely speculation on my part.
Perhaps DT is different because of the way it started (college buds, etc.) but the notion of a band having to be "best friends" is both over-rated and perhaps even unwanted. Some of the greatest music in the history of rock was made under the "pressure" of a tense band relationship (Aerosmith? The Stones?) and while I am most likely in the minority, I think some of MP's demandingness resulted in great things for the band. FOR ME, MY OPINION ONLY, I believe James is suffering from this the most; he was the reason I initially was attracted to DT and yet the only song that I really feel he has delivered on post-MP is "This Is The Life". Sometimes people don't like being pushed, but that is what it takes for them to achieve greatness (google "Phil Simms Bill Parcells" for more on that topic).
You honestly believe that MP pushed JLB to be a better singer? JLB did not sound that good in the last two albums with MP, and it is because he is singing songs that are not tailored to fit his voice. That video of JLB being coached to sing "Dark master..." in Systematic Chaos was so sad. I don't see "being pushed to the limits" there. I see a lack of awareness of what your bandmate's strengths are.
JLB may sound a bit safe in his vocals nowadays, but I see it more of the band being aware of writing melodies fit to the 50-year old James. He sounds much much better live now even with a lot of touring, and I think it is because they know what songs fit JLB at his age.
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I disagree. Since the split, I feel like there is a noticeable positive difference in James' singing.
Not a challenge, just curious to get a feel for your tastes, but what do you feel are the strong entries - purely from a singing standpoint - on the last two records?
Pretty much all of them. Both live and in studio, he was knocking it out of the park.
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You honestly believe that MP pushed JLB to be a better singer? JLB did not sound that good in the last two albums with MP, and it is because he is singing songs that are not tailored to fit his voice. That video of JLB being coached to sing "Dark master..." in Systematic Chaos was so sad. I don't see "being pushed to the limits" there. I see a lack of awareness of what your bandmate's strengths are.
JLB may sound a bit safe in his vocals nowadays, but I see it more of the band being aware of writing melodies fit to the 50-year old James. He sounds much much better live now even with a lot of touring, and I think it is because they know what songs fit JLB at his age.
I honestly believe that. "Safe" is not really a good thing, and though I understand what you mean about "awareness", that doesn't cover all the possibilities. Artists make choices, no? And just because I have MORE choices (i.e. my vocal range is larger than other singers) doesn't mean I make BETTER choices. And I think that "safe" choices are not necessarily "better" choices.
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You honestly believe that MP pushed JLB to be a better singer? JLB did not sound that good in the last two albums with MP, and it is because he is singing songs that are not tailored to fit his voice. That video of JLB being coached to sing "Dark master..." in Systematic Chaos was so sad. I don't see "being pushed to the limits" there. I see a lack of awareness of what your bandmate's strengths are.
JLB may sound a bit safe in his vocals nowadays, but I see it more of the band being aware of writing melodies fit to the 50-year old James. He sounds much much better live now even with a lot of touring, and I think it is because they know what songs fit JLB at his age.
I agree that James sound better on the most recent two albums than the two before. But that being said, I still think he was fantastic on most of SC and BCSL. I don't see anything about his singing on any of those albums that I would consider "not good." And I am baffled as to why you would consider that video "sad." That just makes no sense to me whatsoever.
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I can only vouch for the improvement live. Album-wise he's been consistent over the last 4 albums or so, IMO.
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Aaabsolutely. I thought it was quite visible how much more comfortable in their skin everybody was in that new configuration.
When MP was still around, I sometimes had the feeling that he was competing with James, maybe in an attempt to compensate whatever he perceived to be lacking in live performance. In the new configuration, James is the undisputed front man, and I feel that undisputed status made him more comfortable with himself on stage.
Album-wise, can't say I have noticed much difference.
I didn't see it as competing as much as filling in a gap. Honestly, I've never thought very highly of JLB as a front man. There are certainly times when he's more confident than others, the Score show demonstrates a man owning the stage, but more often than not when I've seen them he's just been part of a group, and without the added presence of MP that's now a real detriment.
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I think he's been a little better in the studio the last 2 albums. Maybe him having a little more freedom with the phrasing of the vocals has helped him stay in a better range and it all adds up to a better sounding album for vocals. I agree with Rumbo that he has sounded better live.
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I honestly believe that. "Safe" is not really a good thing, and though I understand what you mean about "awareness", that doesn't cover all the possibilities. Artists make choices, no? And just because I have MORE choices (i.e. my vocal range is larger than other singers) doesn't mean I make BETTER choices. And I think that "safe" choices are not necessarily "better" choices.
Safe is definitely not always better, and most of the time, for singers it actually is not. But not in the case of a singer of JLB's age. By making somewhat safe but ultimately, smarter choices for vocals, the band were actually able to restore JLB's voice. He can now sing songs from Awake. I don't think a lot of us believed ten years ago that JLB could sing Awake songs again at 50 years old.
Also, at the end of the day, a beautiful song is a beautiful song. Breaking All Illusions did not push JLB to the limits, but it is a beautiful song. Far From Heaven is simple, but has a heartfelt JLB performance. These more straightforward vocals for me made big vocal performances like TITL and IT more special.
I agree that James sound better on the most recent two albums than the two before. But that being said, I still think he was fantastic on most of SC and BCSL. I don't see anything about his singing on any of those albums that I would consider "not good." And I am baffled as to why you would consider that video "sad." That just makes no sense to me whatsoever.
While I was watching it, I was getting the impression that JLB is being asked to sing like somebody who is not him. It's like they wrote a song with a different singer in mind, and now they are asking James to sing like that singer they had in mind. For example, Constant Motion is a good song, but I don't really appreciate JLB doing a James Hetfield impersonation.
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Yeah, but that was more of an overall thing though. The whole band was occasionally trying to sound like another band, and James was just part of that.
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Going back to Barto's point, I think the fact that he isn't micromanaged anymore has contributed greatly to JLB doing so well the last few albums and tours. Let's fact it, no one likes to be micromanaged to death on the job, especially by someone who is supposed to be a peer (a fellow band member). You simply feel more comfortable doing your job when you know you can make the occasional mistake without hearing about it every time, and a higher level of comfort often results in better work.
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And it's not like the one micromanaging him is an expert on vocals. :lol
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It just seemed as the years passed the inconsistency of James in a live setting irked Mike more and more. And we will never know if
JLB wanted the primary focus of the fans on him as the frontman but couldn't command it so Mike felt like he needed to fill the energy
void and be more of a showman. In the end the relationship appeared toxic. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. None of us were there.
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Let's fact it, no one likes to be micromanaged to death on the job, especially by someone who is supposed to be a peer (a fellow band member).
To be fair to MP (since that seems to be my role in this thread): He was one of the producers of those albums, so he wasn't entirely a peer.
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??? Being the producer does not give him any authority over James. He was still a fellow band member, which makes him a peer.
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I think that was the band dynamic in the end though, and probably not to James' liking.
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I think that was the band dynamic in the end though, and probably not to James' liking.
I think in the end, all the band members did not like that band dynamic. They were hostages to Mike in everything he did and they had enough.
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:hostageanalogy:
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:hostageanalogy:
You used to make these dance you know. :lol
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??? Being the producer does not give him any authority over James. He was still a fellow band member, which makes him a peer.
Not authority, but the role of the producer includes the latitude to offer suggestions and coaching on performances. Since Mike was the producer, it was essentially his job to give suggestions to performers on what would make the best performance possible. If he thought James needed to be doing something differently to make the album good, then it was certainly well within his role as producer to make those suggestions. JP appears to be a little more hands-off in that area, but that does not make a more hands-on style like MP's wrong.
I'm just saying that it's not entirely accurate to position MP as some nosy, bossy coworker harassing a peer—as the producer, he was supposed to be more involved in directing the other's performances than a band member who is not the producer would be.
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But that has little to do with Kev's point about Mike's role vis-à-vis James in the band in general.
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I think that was the band dynamic in the end though, and probably not to James' liking.
Probably the reason he chose to record his ADTOE vocals in Canada with no one but Richard Chycki. The man knows how to use his voice and how to sound good, so that was really something great that made him grow as a singer. And props to John Petrucci for allowing that.
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But that has little to do with Kev's point about Mike's role vis-à-vis James in the band in general.
I wasn't commenting on the overall point, I was merely contesting the particular idea that MP wasn't supposed to be involved in making critiques and suggestions for James's vocal performance. That's why I picked that one sentence out of his post instead of commenting on the whole thing.
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All that shows is that Portnoy was out of his element when it came to micromanaging JLB's vocals. The making of SC all but showed that anyway. Many of us have said for a long time that DT should have an outside producer, and that kind of stuff only feeds that line of thinking.
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It was really a bummer when he pushed that approach for the second Flying Colors (the first had a proper producer). I think it hurt the album greatly. I think an outside producer might have realized what made the first one so special, and might have steered the group towards that again. Left to their own devices the group just fell into their old habits.
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I wonder if that's a money issue Rumbo. I think the songs are stronger on the second album but I love the production on the first album.
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??? Being the producer does not give him any authority over James. He was still a fellow band member, which makes him a peer.
Honestly, I think it does and it also does relate to Kev's point about their roles in the band. To be clear I'm not on MP's side here. I'm the one that thinks he trivialized, if not bullied, two members of the band and created a hostile work environment. But since we're talking about the making of SC, it does seem to have been his role to insure that the vocals were done how he felt they should be.
As for its effect on him and his singing, I don't honestly see much. He's certainly singing more comfortably, but in a live setting I haven't noticed much improvement. In one of the recent DVDs I found his singing to vary from awesome to train-wreck, and that's pretty consistent with what I've always felt.
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Oh right that one was WDADRU. My bad! Been a while since I listened to them (especially as I have no other reason to watch WDADRU besides commentary).
Still, all MP did was discuss why they didn't do it that way. There was no mocking or shutting down as some people say.
You're right he didn't mock JM but he was pretty dismissive.
I agree. The comment actually shocked me a bit when I first heard it. I immediately thought, "I can't believe Mike left that in! It really makes him look kinda like a douche."
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I have not watched/listened to this in a long time. Anyone have a time stamp?
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Let me look it up. Can't remember if I have it filed under "P" for "piling on Mike Portnoy" or "O" for "overblown non-controversy."
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Yeah, I'd be pretty interested in hearing it again, as well, since nobody else seems to have taken away the hostility that I did.
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I am in no way an MP basher...and even less so when I first heard it, and I was personally taken aback.
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I don't remember it being that bad, but then again, my takeaway from most of those commentaries was how much Portnoy had to dominate them. I lost track of how many times he interrupted one of the others. It's like, they'd be in the middle of a cool story, and Portnoy would have just have to interrupt to tell some little tidbit about this moment or that moment, and then they'd never get back to the other guy finishing his story. It was like the guy at a party who just had to be THE talker in every conversation that is going on. Eventually, you just stop trying and you hope the guy just eventually talks himself out.
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I don't know that it was that bad, either. He wasn't disparaging his mom or anything. My takeaway from it was along the lines of JD's. I remember thinking it was pretty uncool, and seemed rather awkward in that you could hear a difference in JM's demeanor after that. My best recollection is that he dismissed an idea, but was laughing and joking while doing it, and then came back and made another joke about it later in the video.
And again, I could be completely off base, but it's just another of many thing that suggests to me that JM is probably happy as can be that he left.
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Let me look it up. Can't remember if I have it filed under "P" for "piling on Mike Portnoy" or "O" for "overblown non-controversy."
Amusing, since all I did was add it to your long list of inferences that they weren't fond of each other.
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I was taken aback too when I heard it. It doesn't take a screaming MP to realize that somebody just put someone else in their place. It was particularly the casualness of it that was striking.
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I think its pretty clear that I am generally more critical of MP but I thought he did a great job with moderating the commentaries. He wasn't as overbearing as everybody is claiming.
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A commentary shouldn't need moderating. It should be guys sitting around shooting the breeze, instead of one guy controlling the entire thing.
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A commentary shouldn't need moderating. It should be guys sitting around shooting the breeze, instead of one guy controlling the entire thing.
I personally own about 2000 DVDs and of the ones that have commentaries I have listened to about 85-90%. Occasionally you have some that don't need moderating like John Carpenter and Kurt Russell's commentaries but in that, Carpenter inadvertently acts like a moderator and brings the discussion back to whats on screen when it gets too far off track. Sometimes you have commentaries that are just disastrous without a moderator. The more people you have the more in danger you are of completely losing focus. Sometimes you have one or two people by themselves with nothing to say and you forget you are watching a movie with commentary until the director chimes in by saying "Day for night" with no context whatsoever to let you know he is referring to a filming technique (i.e. the omen II or III...I can't remember).
Two of my friends just co-directed their first biggish budget film and asked for my advice on what they should do for the commentary. I told them not to use a moderator because they typically have plenty to say and for a film that is not well known, a moderator who wasn't there in the process would just dilute the commentary with generic questions.
Long story short, the guys in Dream Theater can sometimes not be the most talkative and other times they are. Mike Portnoy was able to balance the commentary perfectly while keeping things focused with whats going on, using his freakishly photographic memory, and allowing others to have their say. There were even times when he would get interrupted and yield the floor. Sure I had a problem with him being dismissive of JM or singing "anally" during Anna Lee, but otherwise he did a great job.
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Sometimes "controlling" is actually just somebody stepping up when nobody else will.
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I think its pretty clear that I am generally more critical of MP but I thought he did a great job with moderating the commentaries. He wasn't as overbearing as everybody is claiming.
I agree. When he jumped in, it was because there was something that warranted being mentioned, or he'd ask one of the other guys a question pertinent to what was happening on screen. I think MP was a big part of why those commentaries were so good, and I never felt he was overbearing.
I agree with Madman Shepherd's thoughts above.
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I think its pretty clear that I am generally more critical of MP but I thought he did a great job with moderating the commentaries. He wasn't as overbearing as everybody is claiming.
I agree. When he jumped in, it was because there was something that warranted being mentioned, or he'd ask one of the other guys a question pertinent to what was happening on screen. I think MP was a big part of why those commentaries were so good, and I never felt he was overbearing.
I agree with Madman Shepherd's thoughts above.
I don't think he was intentionally being overbearing. He just has a lot to say about what was going on. Like Madman mentioned, MP has an excellent memory for detail about what was going on during a specific show at a specific point in the show. JP and JM are a bit quiet during the commentaries, JLB seemed to offer some comic relief, and JR did about the same. Though I do remember JLB starting some story about a transvestite being in the front row and MP interrupted and went off on a tangent. I was curious about the transvestite story though. :lol I did think MP was sort of mocking JM's idea. I didn't think TOO much of it though. Then again, he "mocked' a guy who barely speaks, so when he does speak he's probably thinking to himself, "this is why I keep my mouth shut." :lol
If you want to talk about commentaries that need a moderator, listen to the Type O Negative commentaries for After Dark and Symphony for the Devil. They are all over the place, but are the funniest commentaries I've heard.
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Oh right that one was WDADRU. My bad! Been a while since I listened to them (especially as I have no other reason to watch WDADRU besides commentary).
Still, all MP did was discuss why they didn't do it that way. There was no mocking or shutting down as some people say.
You're right he didn't mock JM but he was pretty dismissive.
I agree. The comment actually shocked me a bit when I first heard it. I immediately thought, "I can't believe Mike left that in! It really makes him look kinda like a douche."
That's how I took it as well.
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Did there exist any acrimony between Bruce and Ari?
Yes, there absolutely was but it was in the days before the internet really took off, of course. I'll never forget Harry's line, "Bruce would make a country record if he thought it would sell".
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I think MP was a big part of why those commentaries were so good, and I never felt he was overbearing.
I thought MP was a big part of why those commentaries were so good AND I OFTEN felt that he was overbearing. :lol
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Mike, in many things, is a great example of a double edged sword.
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Mike, in many things, is a great example of a double edged sword.
So you're saying Mike is like that crazy woman, whose dynamite in bed but crazy as bat shit.
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Hot Crazy Matrix: A Man's Guide to Women
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKWmFWRVLlU
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Mike, in many things, is a great example of a double edged sword.
So you're saying Mike is like that crazy woman, whose dynamite in bed but crazy as bat shit.
You were right the first time. Your edit is incorrect.
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I think its pretty clear that I am generally more critical of MP but I thought he did a great job with moderating the commentaries. He wasn't as overbearing as everybody is claiming.
I agree. When he jumped in, it was because there was something that warranted being mentioned, or he'd ask one of the other guys a question pertinent to what was happening on screen. I think MP was a big part of why those commentaries were so good, and I never felt he was overbearing.
I agree with Madman Shepherd's thoughts above.
I don't think he was intentionally being overbearing. He just has a lot to say about what was going on. Like Madman mentioned, MP has an excellent memory for detail about what was going on during a specific show at a specific point in the show. JP and JM are a bit quiet during the commentaries, JLB seemed to offer some comic relief, and JR did about the same. Though I do remember JLB starting some story about a transvestite being in the front row and MP interrupted and went off on a tangent. I was curious about the transvestite story though. :lol I did think MP was sort of mocking JM's idea. I didn't think TOO much of it though. Then again, he "mocked' a guy who barely speaks, so when he does speak he's probably thinking to himself, "this is why I keep my mouth shut." :lol
If you want to talk about commentaries that need a moderator, listen to the Type O Negative commentaries for After Dark and Symphony for the Devil. They are all over the place, but are the funniest commentaries I've heard.
I haven't listened to those in a while. Don't they just make fun of Peter the whole time? If it is how I remember, I was pretty surprised at how they would rip on a guy that is the leader, writes all the songs, makes a point of saying "All songs decomposed by Peter Steele" yet gets shit on through the whole thing. It was a riot.
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Mike, in many things, is a great example of a double edged sword.
So you're saying Mike is like that crazy woman, whose dynamite in bed but crazy as bat shit.
You were right the first time. Your edit is incorrect.
I fail at spelling. It's well documented.
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I think its pretty clear that I am generally more critical of MP but I thought he did a great job with moderating the commentaries. He wasn't as overbearing as everybody is claiming.
I agree. When he jumped in, it was because there was something that warranted being mentioned, or he'd ask one of the other guys a question pertinent to what was happening on screen. I think MP was a big part of why those commentaries were so good, and I never felt he was overbearing.
I agree with Madman Shepherd's thoughts above.
I don't think he was intentionally being overbearing. He just has a lot to say about what was going on. Like Madman mentioned, MP has an excellent memory for detail about what was going on during a specific show at a specific point in the show. JP and JM are a bit quiet during the commentaries, JLB seemed to offer some comic relief, and JR did about the same. Though I do remember JLB starting some story about a transvestite being in the front row and MP interrupted and went off on a tangent. I was curious about the transvestite story though. :lol I did think MP was sort of mocking JM's idea. I didn't think TOO much of it though. Then again, he "mocked' a guy who barely speaks, so when he does speak he's probably thinking to himself, "this is why I keep my mouth shut." :lol
If you want to talk about commentaries that need a moderator, listen to the Type O Negative commentaries for After Dark and Symphony for the Devil. They are all over the place, but are the funniest commentaries I've heard.
I haven't listened to those in a while. Don't they just make fun of Peter the whole time? If it is how I remember, I was pretty surprised at how they would rip on a guy that is the leader, writes all the songs, makes a point of saying "All songs decomposed by Peter Steele" yet gets shit on through the whole thing. It was a riot.
And don't forget the fact that he was twice their size and could probably have crushed them with his fist. :lol But yes, they did spend a lot of the time getting on his case about one thing or another.
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Apologies if this has been posted in the past, but it was too good not to if it hadn't.
(https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10410432_817355941666570_8464512351089555274_n.jpg?oh=7f9a3c83486946d5219d5277b7237e26&oe=55A87F0E)
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lol
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Are we playing blackout now, or are we playing to a pattern? :p
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You should make one of those boxes "Teach Proper Social Media Behavior Class"
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Apologies if this has been posted in the past, but it was too good not to if it hadn't.
(https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10410432_817355941666570_8464512351089555274_n.jpg?oh=7f9a3c83486946d5219d5277b7237e26&oe=55A87F0E)
All right, to the recollection of things, here's what I got. What's missing?
(https://i.imgur.com/9Iw949Q.png)
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Supergroup, G3, Collab With Son, 70's rock band fill in, bluesy hardd rock side-project, jim matheos collab, project with former DT member
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Basically everything that's gray, I just saw that :lol
But the 70's rock band fill-in can be grayed as well, and I have no idea about the DT Spinoff.
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What's the 70's rock band?
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I have no idea about the DT Spinoff.
Liquid Tension Experiment?
Can we include a box for "play 6:00 live near the album tempo"?
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What's the 70's rock band?
He's joining Twisted Sister for some live dates this year.
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hmmmm
They've been active since '72 but I'd classify them in the 80's category. Idk.
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Basically everything that's gray, I just saw that :lol
But the 70's rock band fill-in can be grayed as well, and I have no idea about the DT Spinoff.
LTE. All DT members except bass.
Also, shouldn't "gospel album" be filled in? Almost every Neal Morse album he's played on counts as such.
EDIT: OSI could also count towards "Electronic side project".
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BTW, provided The Winery Dogs will reveal their follow-up album some time this summer (since they go on tour in fall I think), is MP's secret metal project parked until next year, like they did with Flying Colors?
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Was at my last AHL game of the season tonight Mike/Max were there. Just noticed them as they were walking out, didn't actually talk to them.
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(https://www.icanhasinternets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/dwZ10.jpg)
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Was at my last AHL game of the season tonight Mike/Max were there. Just noticed them as they were walking out, didn't actually talk to them.
A fellow AHL fan! Rockford Icehogs have made the playoffs for the first time since I started following them so I am pretty psyched. Doesn't look like your team did so hot this season (MP just tweetsecreted from the game)
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What makes that different from a regular tweet? Also, it's not a secret if you go around telling everyone. Typical "fan". :neverusethis:
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What makes that different from a regular tweet? Also, it's not a secret if you go around telling everyone. Typical "fan". :neverusethis:
:rollin
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Was at my last AHL game of the season tonight Mike/Max were there. Just noticed them as they were walking out, didn't actually talk to them.
Never pegged Mike as a hockey fan. Maybe Max is one....
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Mike at least used to be huge into Boxing.
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You don't necessarily have to be a fan to go. My area only this season got their minor league hockey team. And the only other major sports option is a minor league baseball team. So really it's just a fun thing to do in the area.
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You don't necessarily have to be a fan to go. My area only this season got their minor league hockey team. And the only other major sports option is a minor league baseball team. So really it's just a fun thing to do in the area.
Guess I just don't understand why you would do something like that if you aren't into it.
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You don't necessarily have to be a fan to go. My area only this season got their minor league hockey team. And the only other major sports option is a minor league baseball team. So really it's just a fun thing to do in the area.
Guess I just don't understand why you would do something like that if you aren't into it.
It's not that people go when they aren't into it. I wouldn't go to the baseball games if you paid me. But there are a lot of people who don't dislike it, that will go for a fun night out.
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I'm like that. I don't really care for sports but a sporting event can be a lot of fun to go to, especially if you're with friends. It's just a cool social event.
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I'm like that. I don't really care for sports but a sporting event can be a lot of fun to go to, especially if you're with friends. It's just a cool social event.
I suppose, but hitting an eatery, a watering hole or something like that accomplishes the same thing for me. But I'm not a sports guy other than hockey and that's been on the wane lately although I'd still go with friends if the need arose.
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You don't necessarily have to be a fan to go. My area only this season got their minor league hockey team. And the only other major sports option is a minor league baseball team. So really it's just a fun thing to do in the area.
Guess I just don't understand why you would do something like that if you aren't into it.
It's not that people go when they aren't into it. I wouldn't go to the baseball games if you paid me. But there are a lot of people who don't dislike it, that will go for a fun night out.
My friends love baseball and I'm not really that interested but I do go to a few games, it always turns out to be a fun night.
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You don't necessarily have to be a fan to go. My area only this season got their minor league hockey team. And the only other major sports option is a minor league baseball team. So really it's just a fun thing to do in the area.
Guess I just don't understand why you would do something like that if you aren't into it.
It's not that people go when they aren't into it. I wouldn't go to the baseball games if you paid me. But there are a lot of people who don't dislike it, that will go for a fun night out.
My friends love baseball and I'm not really that interested but I do go to a few games, it always turns out to be a fun night.
With sporting events, sometimes all it takes is the right group to go with and regardless of what's going on in the game, a good time is had by all.
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Yeah, I'm not a fan of baseball, but once or twice a year we will go to see the local minor league team. It's always a good time.
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Happy 48th Birthday Mike :)
420 in Europe now.
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Happy 48th!!!
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Happy 48th Birthday!! :metal
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Happy :metal
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Happy Birthday Pornie.
Question: How does Mike keep winning these drumming awards? Is he the only person to vote for? Not saying his drumming is bad or anything, but there are a lot of awesome drummers out there and considering he doesn't practice anymore, and has stated that many drummers can play circles around him, how does he keep winning? Is it merely a popularity contest now?
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Is it merely a popularity contest now?
That's what it's always been.
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That's all any type of award is.
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420BLAZEMYASSANDBALLSF****T!!!
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MP Twitter Q&A - April
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2926401.aspx
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:tup
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That was a pretty interesting read. Thanks for posting it.
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Apparently he has pretty regular contact with JR.
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Apparently he has pretty regular contact with JR.
And he did mention he would love to do another LTE, so maybe....just maybe. The only reason they didn't do a third was because 3/4 of LTE was in Dream Theater. Obviously it's back to just 1/2 now so...maybe the first step to MP rejoining DT is via LTE first.
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Apparently he has pretty regular contact with JR.
And he did mention he would love to do another LTE, so maybe....just maybe. The only reason they didn't do a third was because 3/4 of LTE was in Dream Theater. Obviously it's back to just 1/2 now so...maybe the first step to MP rejoining DT is via LTE first.
Or, far more likely, it's the last step in a 3rd LTE album.
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Apparently he has pretty regular contact with JR.
And he did mention he would love to do another LTE, so maybe....just maybe. The only reason they didn't do a third was because 3/4 of LTE was in Dream Theater. Obviously it's back to just 1/2 now so...maybe the first step to MP rejoining DT is via LTE first.
Or, far more likely, it's the last step in a 3rd LTE album.
Maybe....but I still remain hopeful.
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Apparently he has pretty regular contact with JR.
And he did mention he would love to do another LTE, so maybe....just maybe. The only reason they didn't do a third was because 3/4 of LTE was in Dream Theater. Obviously it's back to just 1/2 now so...maybe the first step to MP rejoining DT is via LTE first.
Or, far more likely, it's the last step in a 3rd LTE album.
Maybe....but I still remain hopeful.
Why hopeful for that?
I remain hopeful that all musicians involved remain happy and fulfilled in their careers. Short of MM voluntarily stepping away from DT, that won't happen with MP coming back to DT.
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Apparently he has pretty regular contact with JR.
And he did mention he would love to do another LTE, so maybe....just maybe. The only reason they didn't do a third was because 3/4 of LTE was in Dream Theater. Obviously it's back to just 1/2 now so...maybe the first step to MP rejoining DT is via LTE first.
Or, far more likely, it's the last step in a 3rd LTE album.
Maybe....but I still remain hopeful.
Why hopeful for that?
I remain hopeful that all musicians involved remain happy and fulfilled in their careers. Short of MM voluntarily stepping away from DT, that won't happen with MP coming back to DT.
Or JM quitting and Portnoy becoming the new bass player. I can see him overtaking the left side of the stage and sending Jordan to the right side.
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I still don't get people who say that Portnoy is "definitely" coming back.
Despite everyone in Dream Theater adamant that it'll never happen and that if Mangini were to leave then the band would be over.
One of the first interviews with Mangini I read after he joined - he flat out said " Portnoy's never coming back ".
Now - if the guy replacing him can flat out state that - then i'd go along with it.
Plus we know he didn't get along with James ( for definite ) and Myung ( strong implications ) - so I can't see the band lasting very long if he ever came back full time.
Is it 2010 again ?!
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Who said "definitely"? People can be hopeful (a false hope), but I haven't seen anyone state definitively that he will come back.
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Probably all the hardcore MP Warriors online . .
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Apparently he has pretty regular contact with JR.
And he did mention he would love to do another LTE, so maybe....just maybe. The only reason they didn't do a third was because 3/4 of LTE was in Dream Theater. Obviously it's back to just 1/2 now so...maybe the first step to MP rejoining DT is via LTE first.
Or, far more likely, it's the last step in a 3rd LTE album.
Maybe....but I still remain hopeful.
Why hopeful for that?
I remain hopeful that all musicians involved remain happy and fulfilled in their careers. Short of MM voluntarily stepping away from DT, that won't happen with MP coming back to DT.
Because as much as I like MM, I'd still like to think that one day, even if for their final album or final tour, MP rejoins the band. I see it happening and I'm usually right when it comes to hunches. Everyone is still thinking about 5 years ago when the tension was so thick and ugly. We're five years down the road now and people need to get out of that state of mind and realize not every band breeds hate perpetually. Even David Gilmour got on state with Roger Waters for Live 8 when nobody ever thought that would happen again. So...nothing is off the table as far as I'm concerned.
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I can see them reuniting for a show but Portnoy rejoining the band full time as their drummer ?
No.
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I just realized his whole family's initials are MP... what a conceited prick...
:biggrin:
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I just realized his whole family's initials are MP... what a conceited prick...
:biggrin:
And that is completely unnecessary, kidding or not (which I can only hope you were).
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Just seeing this now...
Despite everyone in Dream Theater adamant that it'll never happen and that if Mangini were to leave then the band would be over.
...as if this means anything. It had been stated previously in the past that the lineup with MP and JR was the final lineup and that the band would break up if anyone left, and we know where that went. So while I'm not holding my breath for MP to return, I'd take that statement with a HUGE grain of salt. BTW, care to share the link of where the guys in DT made such statements?
One of the first interviews with Mangini I read after he joined - he flat out said " Portnoy's never coming back ".
Now - if the guy replacing him can flat out state that - then i'd go along with it.
...as if he's gonna state "well, he'll be coming back some time in the future." C'mon man - this point of your reasoning is just silly. Of course the new guy is gonna make such a statement! :facepalm:
Plus we know he didn't get along with James ( for definite ) and Myung ( strong implications ) - so I can't see the band lasting very long if he ever came back full time.
True, but while unlikely, they could patch things up and work out their differences, just as MP and JP previously worked out their differences, and if memory serves me correctly, JL and MP had issues many years ago that they worked out. Again, I don't expect it, nor am I waiting for it to happen now, but never say never...
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BTW, care to share the link of where the guys in DT made such statements?
Nope. It was right around the time of the auditions and I read it so i've no idea.
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By the way - is it just me - or whenever this thread is updated - does anyone else immediately think " Oh, what's he said this time ? " :P
p.s. A lot of people seem to be acting like "Portnoy coming back" is a foregone conclusion. I know we can't predict the future and anything could happen in another 5
years...But i'm sure it's just wishful thinking.
Same as those people who say " Oasis will definitely reform. It's definitely going to happen. "
Based on what ?
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Well when Oasis does reform, MP will be their guest drummer. :D
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By the way - is it just me - or whenever this thread is updated - does anyone else immediately think " Oh, what's he said this time ? " :P
This thread has basically become the place to shit post MP. People must have a lot of frustration to get out. :lol
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I think it's also the situation in which he would come back that makes it unlikely.
I think it's safe to assume that DT will try to stick it out with MM. So, the only scenario where they would consider going back to MP would be as a marketing gimmick because nobody goes to their shows anymore. However, would MP really want to go back to something like that, as a kind of Dave Lee Roth soap opera? I just don't see it happening.
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By the way - is it just me - or whenever this thread is updated - does anyone else immediately think " Oh, what's he said this time ? " :P
Not me. But I'd imagine I'm in the minority as usual
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One thing nobody has mentioned is that even if they did get along with MP alright, would they really want to deal with all the gossip that came along with it?
-You can tell James is pissed because Mike keeps stealing the spotlight.-
-Their latest album was great thanks mostly to Portnoy!-
-John Myung isn't writing lyrics again because of Portnoy. -
The situation is pretty toxic. It's not like they would go from playing theatres to playing arenas with a reunion so there isn't a whole lot of reason to do it unless DT's popularity dwindles so much that they have to resort to clubs. Doesn't look like that will happen though.
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I don't think James was ever pissed that Mike was stealing the spotlight, but that he was almost trying to take over as vocalist. I still think James' original takes on the Forsaken chorus are better than what made it to the album. Backing vocals are fine, but Mike kept adding more and more lead parts and they kept getting more ridiculous.
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The situation is pretty toxic. It's not like they would go from playing theatres to playing arenas with a reunion so there isn't a whole lot of reason to do it unless DT's popularity dwindles so much that they have to resort to clubs. Doesn't look like that will happen though.
But you can't tell me they wouldn't consider it if Mangini left for some reason. I'm not saying they 100% would do it, but if Mangini quit the band they would absolutely consider bringing MP back.
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The situation is pretty toxic. It's not like they would go from playing theatres to playing arenas with a reunion so there isn't a whole lot of reason to do it unless DT's popularity dwindles so much that they have to resort to clubs. Doesn't look like that will happen though.
But you can't tell me they wouldn't consider it if Mangini left for some reason. I'm not saying they 100% would do it, but if Mangini quit the band they would absolutely consider bringing MP back.
I love how people accept this as a given, even though there's little to no proof that the band would do it.
Dream Theater's moved on. MP seems to have moved on. The people who back this the most aren't either DT or MP, it's the fans. I genuinely think if MM left the band for whatever reason, they'd just replace him with another drummer. Bringing MP back just feels like taking a backwards step for the band. It is not a 100% impossibility-hell, the Eagles got back together and their break up made the split between DT and MP look positively sunny-but so many MP fans just seem to think DT is sitting around constantly behind MM's back thinking "dead man walking" just waiting for the excuse to bring MP back. And I just don't think they are.
I lean far more towards "one more big line up change would make the band retire" than I do "MP is going to come back" myself, but that's just as speculative as the assumption his return is inevitable.
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The situation is pretty toxic. It's not like they would go from playing theatres to playing arenas with a reunion so there isn't a whole lot of reason to do it unless DT's popularity dwindles so much that they have to resort to clubs. Doesn't look like that will happen though.
But you can't tell me they wouldn't consider it if Mangini left for some reason. I'm not saying they 100% would do it, but if Mangini quit the band they would absolutely consider bringing MP back.
They'd consider it inasmuch as it would be a possibility. The same as getting a new drummer or splitting up would also be possibilities.
None of can say for certain that if mangini left then they'd absolutely hire Portnoy back. And nobody can say for certain that they'd outright reject that idea
immediately.
But the only people who have made any noises about the possibility of Portnoy returning are the fans.
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By the way - is it just me - or whenever this thread is updated - does anyone else immediately think " Oh, what's he said this time ? " :P
This thread has basically become the place to shit post MP. People must have a lot of frustration to get out. :lol
I used to come here for MP updates but it HAS become the place for MP bashing from time to time.
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I got a chuckle out of this week's That Metal Show. Billy Sheehan was the musical guest. They were discussing the Winery Dogs and how well they're doing and the hectic nature of their schedules and so on and so on. They got to joking about Mike and being in side projects. After a bit of conversation with Billy, someone mentioned that in that short a period of time, Mike had just joined three new side projects. :lol
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I got a chuckle out of this week's That Metal Show. Billy Sheehan was the musical guest. They were discussing the Winery Dogs and how well they're doing and the hectic nature of their schedules and so on and so on. They got to joking about Mike and being in side projects. After a bit of conversation with Billy, someone mentioned that in that short a period of time, Mike had just joined three new side projects. :lol
lol
For that matter, Billy has a lot of juggling, as well.
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I for one am always slightly dissapointed when there is no update regarding his music. If I look at the list of studio recordings he participated in and with what artists he tours/toured, I have to do my best to name something I regard as bad.
Sure, Adrenaline Mob was a wasted oppertunity and bland (namely lyrics and guitars dissapointed me), but even there were still some nice moments for me. As for the other major collab material since he left DT: Winery Dogs was very nice and fun, Flying Colors is very good and Transatlantic was great too. And all of them got recent good and entertaining live releases as well. There are not much artist that I can buy almost anything if his/her name is slapped on it, but MP is amongst those. Even if the guy does not practice/train anymore and relies a lot on his signature style, I usually love his drumming.
The sad thing is I sometimes feel like some rabid MP warrior for being positive in a MP thread/article/comment section at this point, heh. That said, DT talk/rumors/relations is expected around here, offcourse. And most project got their own thread anyways. I do not want to see him back in DT or anything, nor do I really expect it to happen aside from a reunion thing around retirement or something like that (guesting on a live release would be rad I think, if all relationships are good).
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Speaking of AMob, Mike Orlando was the guest musician on last week's TMS. If the little bit I saw of him on there is indicative of how he always plays, then I DO NOT care for his style at all. After two minutes of watching him rip, I'd be bored out of my skull.
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Sounds like it was indicative ;D
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Interview with The Winery Dogs. Starts at 48:30
https://www.maximumthreshold.net/podcast/404-mtrs-ektomorf-winery-dogs-and-bang-tango/
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Mike just posted the formal announcement about the Metal Allegiance album on his site. Nine original songs ranging in style from
early Sabbath to full on Metallica thrash, with a list of special guest performers and vocalists.
Looking forward to this one!
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I'm actually quite looking forward to hearing this. MP's career is on a far more interesting trajectory than DT's.
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Gotta say, he plays in the stuff he loves. Not my thing really, particularly this new one, but he's pulling together the music he likes.
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Gotta say, he plays in the stuff he loves. Not my thing really, particularly this new one, but he's pulling together the music he likes.
Totally. And you know what? Even with this new thing, I'm really not the metal type, but I will check it out. Especially if the special guests are interesting. There's something about MP's plans that always get my attention. (Well actually except Adrenaline Mob, that's the only thing I've never been really interested in)
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I think the name "Metal Allegiance" is kind of silly, but I look forward to hearing it.
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Yep, namepicking doesn't seem to be his strong suit, does it?
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He had a different name for The Winery Dogs, but the three of them decided not to use it. Does anyone know what it was?
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Yep, namepicking doesn't seem to be his strong suit, does it?
I'm OK with The Winery Dogs.
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Yep, namepicking doesn't seem to be his strong suit, does it?
I'm OK with The Winery Dogs.
Kotzen came up with the name, so no points for MP there :)
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Someone mentioned before that "Winery Dogs" sounded like a nicer way of saying "Booze Hounds".
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I'm actually quite looking forward to hearing this. MP's career is on a far more interesting trajectory than DT's.
This. Five years later and I can now see why he left/wanted a break. He seems so happy to be doing all of these different projects that all have very different styles from each other. Looking at his last two DT albums and what he's doing now, it's so apparent that he's not happy playing just one style of music even if it's a style that offers a bit more creative freedom like prog.
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it's so apparent that he's not happy playing just one style of music even if it's a style that offers a bit more creative freedom like prog.
That's a somewhat sad state of affairs for DT I would say. They play in arguably the most open genre of music, but their drummer leaves (to some degree) because he can't explore other styles of music in that band.
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it's so apparent that he's not happy playing just one style of music even if it's a style that offers a bit more creative freedom like prog.
That's a somewhat sad state of affairs for DT I would say. They play in arguably the most open genre of music, but their drummer leaves (to some degree) because he can't explore other styles of music in that band.
That's overstating it a bit. Any stagnation in what MP played in DT was self imposed.
He certainly didn't leave DT to explore other styles of music.
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Did he not? I mean, he said he was burned out with DT, and the band he played in (A7X) was vastly different music. And from the on he's done all kinds of music. I don't think it's too far-fetched that, after trying to move DT into new areas (Metallica, Muse etc) and that not working, that he started to burn out.
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But his side projects have always been different from DT. Now, he just does more of them. He may find this variety refreshing, and maybe he needed it, but I got the feeling he was burned out by the DT machine, and not DT music.
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I wouldn't be surprised if it was both. Particularly considering how he had really tried to shoehorn new music into DT from time to time.
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I wouldn't be surprised if it was both. Particularly considering how he had really tried to shoehorn new music into DT from time to time.
But while JP and JR "wrote" the music, it seemed that MP was the musical "director".
And that's why his comment on his Score documentary regarding Innocence Faded were startling. Like why paint yourself into a corner like that?
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Sometimes you are you own worst enemy.
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I don't recall what he said. Jog my mind please?
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I don't recall what he said. Jog my mind please?
During the IF Outro, he mentions that it is real Journey-ish, and says that DT fans would never let them get away with that these days. I'm paraphrasing, but when I heard it, it jumped out at me. That's a great song, and a vocal like that and a mesmerizing outro like that would be welcomed by DT fans.
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I think the Journey parts to balls out metal is what I love about DT.
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That's bizarre. There's a passing similarity to Journey, I guess, but it's nowhere near the blatant "influences" they had on later albums.
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Well that was MP's description, but I was so surprised by his perception of DT's fans and his close mindedness on the subject.
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I kinda hear it, but that outro is more Dregs than anything else. I always liked the huge blend of styles on the early DT albums anyway. They need more of that IMO.
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The guitar outro on IF is one of my all time DT highlights - maybe they need Neal Schon as a musical director.
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That outro is just so bright and cheery and the way it builds up is fantastic. And they really haven't done anything like that since.... :(
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I don't recall what he said. Jog my mind please?
During the IF Outro, he mentions that it is real Journey-ish, and says that DT fans would never let them get away with that these days. I'm paraphrasing, but when I heard it, it jumped out at me. That's a great song, and a vocal like that and a mesmerizing outro like that would be welcomed by DT fans.
I haven't heard this commentary, so I could be totally off-base, but is it possible that this was a jab at the fans who criticized songs like Never Enough and I Walk Beside You for too closely resembling their influences?
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I kinda hear it, but that outro is more Dregs than anything else.
This. That outro has never seemed Journeyish to me. I was confused when he said that, because it seems so blatantly in the veing of the Dixie Dregs, who were a big influence on JP.
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It sounds a bit Journey-ish at the very start when it's just the chords, but as soon as the guitar breaks off into the lead, not at all.
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So Dave Mustaine did an interview (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/dave-mustaine-on-new-megadeth-lp-and-rust-in-peace-reunion-that-wasnt-20150514) with Rolling Stone, and he admitted that he reached out to Portnoy about becoming the drummer for Megadeth after Shawn Drover left.
How does Chris Adler fit into this equation?
Our hopes were to have a permanent drummer, but the option to do a record with Chris was really exciting to me. So I thought, "Well, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. We'll figure out what we're gonna do about live shows, who's gonna take the drum throne." And we've looked at a lot of people. I talked with my friend [ex-Dream Theater drummer] Mike Portnoy, who I think is an amazing talent. I talked to [ex-Slayer drummer] Dave Lombardo. [Current Dream Theater drummer] Mike Mangini's name has come up. But there was just something telling me to pause, saying, "Really think about who you're gonna play with, Mustaine. Make sure you're going to do something that's really going to excite people and that is not predictable." But we do have some live shows coming up and we have a drummer committed to our dates so far this year.
The funny thing is he also mentioned Mike Mangini as well.
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I wonder if MP's dramatic post-DT history was a bit of a red flag for Dave.
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I wonder if MP's dramatic post-DT history was a bit of a red flag for Dave.
In what way? Dave's no stranger to drama.
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So Dave Mustaine did an interview (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/dave-mustaine-on-new-megadeth-lp-and-rust-in-peace-reunion-that-wasnt-20150514) with Rolling Stone, and he admitted that he reached out to Portnoy about becoming the drummer for Megadeth after Shawn Drover left.
How does Chris Adler fit into this equation?
Our hopes were to have a permanent drummer, but the option to do a record with Chris was really exciting to me. So I thought, "Well, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. We'll figure out what we're gonna do about live shows, who's gonna take the drum throne." And we've looked at a lot of people. I talked with my friend [ex-Dream Theater drummer] Mike Portnoy, who I think is an amazing talent. I talked to [ex-Slayer drummer] Dave Lombardo. [Current Dream Theater drummer] Mike Mangini's name has come up. But there was just something telling me to pause, saying, "Really think about who you're gonna play with, Mustaine. Make sure you're going to do something that's really going to excite people and that is not predictable." But we do have some live shows coming up and we have a drummer committed to our dates so far this year.
The funny thing is he also mentioned Mike Mangini as well.
Drama aside and to MP's defense, he has a bunch of dates already lined up with Twisted Sister and The Winery Dogs. Not sure if some of the dates that Megadeth has booked already overlap with MP's. But yes, both guys are used to drama
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I wonder if MP's dramatic post-DT history was a bit of a red flag for Dave.
In what way? Dave's no stranger to drama.
*His* drama. Pretty sure he wouldn't want to divert the focus from himself :D
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That makes sense.
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Ass Sells but Who's Balling?
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Ass Sells but Who's Balling?
:rollin
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Mike Mangini's name came up?
Imagine if MM did session drums for Megadeth...then did the first leg of the Megadeth tour...then went to the Dream Theater guys and asked for a five year break and said they could come back bigger and better than ever just like the Stone Temple Pilots.
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:lol
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MP could have done it...as far as I know Chris Adler is not a fixed member, but a temporary one, right? MP could have joined in a similar capacity. And how cool would that be?
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Ass Sells but Who's Balling?
:clap:
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Ass Sells but Who's Balling?
:rollin :rollin :hat
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I wonder if MP's dramatic post-DT history was a bit of a red flag for Dave.
I would be shocked if this was the case. Absolutely stunned. Because the fact is, for as much as people in the DT fanbase like to slag on MP, no one who isn't either a fan of one of MP's projects or a Blabbermouth reader actually knows about most of his controversy, or if they do know, they don't really care or think any of it is a big deal.
Think about the specific incidents that DTF users cite as "drama" for MP. Most of it surrounds a band breakup, which was actually one of the less acrimonious band breakups in music history if you actually look at it. Look no further than Mustaine who just recently seems to have mostly gotten over being kicked out of a band in 1983. Or, if you must, look at the Queensrÿche debacle. Or the Pink Floyd dispute back in the 80s. All that happened with MP is he liked some negative Facebook comments about JLB, said some less-than flattering things about him, and had a little media spat with him that was mostly manufactured controversy by Blabbermouth and was quickly resolved.
The other incidents that constitute MP "drama" are basically all just ill-conceived social media posts. In the grand scheme of things, no one cares about ill-conceived social media posts by some drummer of a band they sorta like. Certainly Dave Mustaine, the veritable king of making ill-conceived statements in public, doesn't care about MP's Facebook page. This is the guy who had no problem talking about how he thinks that every mass-shooting is a government conspiracy. I don't think he cares that MP got mad one day and said some mean things about the speed of service he got in a hospital.
I get that MP's not a perfect human being. He's made some very public mistakes, and it's fair to call him out on those. It's also fair if you don't particularly like the guy knowing those things about him. But the whole "MP is so out of control, just a PR nightmare!" thing is overblown in the DT fanbase. As musicians go, his record is pretty clean. A family man by all accounts who is happily married with kids. Had a drug problem, yes, but turned it around and used his fame to, arguably, help others with similar problems through the 12SS. Close friends with a relatively well-renowned Christian rocker. No nasty rumors about drugs, sex, partying, no hint of bigotry, no abusive relationships. Just the occasional overreaction on Facebook. That's a pretty good record. Compared to a lot of musicians, it's practically spotless.
No well-known artist is going to look at that record and say "well, this guy is by all accounts an excellent musician, an excellent arranger, fairly good at helping with business and promotion, and he has a sizable fanbase, some of whom will buy anything he's involved in. But I just don't know, because all this Facebook business suggests that he could be quite a liability to our brand. Quite a loose cannon, this one." Dave Mustaine, a man who has done more cocaine than perhaps anyone alive and who is well known for repeatedly saying things that he shouldn't say to the press, often about Metallica, often about school shootings being false flag attacks by the U.S. government, is certainly not going to look at MP's record and think that.
Tl;dr: DT fans who criticize MP aren't necessarily wrong to criticize some particular incidents, but they are exaggerating his PR problems by a lot. There is no way that Dave Mustaine decided not to let MP play with Megadeth because of some stuff that he said on Facebook, because it's simply not that bad and because Dave himself is way more of a loose cannon than MP has ever been and will ever be.
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You make a good point that a lot of this is overblown, especially for someone like Dave Mustaine who is clearly just looking for a temporary fill in drummer (even if it lasts a year or two).
On that same token, I think you are downplaying the position MP put himself in. Look no further than A7X and their statements regarding his "press releases" and the drama surrounding his actions. Obviously Mike hasn't burned any bridges with the vast majority of people he has performed with (Neal Morse, Billy Sheehan, Paul Gilbert, etc) and you're right that the majority of people in the music industry don't dissect things the way people do on a message board BUT I think there probably are a lot more people than normal that might think twice before getting involved. It makes you wonder if people like Mikael Åkerfeldt have avoided that ever demanded side project with Portnoy for that reason.
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I don't doubt that the drama is a factor for many, but I'd have a hard time believing this is a factor for somebody like Dave Mustaine. It's pretty much a guarantee that there will be drama with whoever he works with. My guess is that MP turned it down.
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I wonder if MP's dramatic post-DT history was a bit of a red flag for Dave.
I would be shocked if this was the case. Absolutely stunned. Because the fact is, for as much as people in the DT fanbase like to slag on MP, no one who isn't either a fan of one of MP's projects or a Blabbermouth reader actually knows about most of his controversy, or if they do know, they don't really care or think any of it is a big deal.
Think about the specific incidents that DTF users cite as "drama" for MP. Most of it surrounds a band breakup, which was actually one of the less acrimonious band breakups in music history if you actually look at it. Look no further than Mustaine who just recently seems to have mostly gotten over being kicked out of a band in 1983. Or, if you must, look at the Queensrÿche debacle. Or the Pink Floyd dispute back in the 80s. All that happened with MP is he liked some negative Facebook comments about JLB, said some less-than flattering things about him, and had a little media spat with him that was mostly manufactured controversy by Blabbermouth and was quickly resolved.
The other incidents that constitute MP "drama" are basically all just ill-conceived social media posts. In the grand scheme of things, no one cares about ill-conceived social media posts by some drummer of a band they sorta like. Certainly Dave Mustaine, the veritable king of making ill-conceived statements in public, doesn't care about MP's Facebook page. This is the guy who had no problem talking about how he thinks that every mass-shooting is a government conspiracy. I don't think he cares that MP got mad one day and said some mean things about the speed of service he got in a hospital.
I get that MP's not a perfect human being. He's made some very public mistakes, and it's fair to call him out on those. It's also fair if you don't particularly like the guy knowing those things about him. But the whole "MP is so out of control, just a PR nightmare!" thing is overblown in the DT fanbase. As musicians go, his record is pretty clean. A family man by all accounts who is happily married with kids. Had a drug problem, yes, but turned it around and used his fame to, arguably, help others with similar problems through the 12SS. Close friends with a relatively well-renowned Christian rocker. No nasty rumors about drugs, sex, partying, no hint of bigotry, no abusive relationships. Just the occasional overreaction on Facebook. That's a pretty good record. Compared to a lot of musicians, it's practically spotless.
No well-known artist is going to look at that record and say "well, this guy is by all accounts an excellent musician, an excellent arranger, fairly good at helping with business and promotion, and he has a sizable fanbase, some of whom will buy anything he's involved in. But I just don't know, because all this Facebook business suggests that he could be quite a liability to our brand. Quite a loose cannon, this one." Dave Mustaine, a man who has done more cocaine than perhaps anyone alive and who is well known for repeatedly saying things that he shouldn't say to the press, often about Metallica, often about school shootings being false flag attacks by the U.S. government, is certainly not going to look at MP's record and think that.
Tl;dr: DT fans who criticize MP aren't necessarily wrong to criticize some particular incidents, but they are exaggerating his PR problems by a lot. There is no way that Dave Mustaine decided not to let MP play with Megadeth because of some stuff that he said on Facebook, because it's simply not that bad and because Dave himself is way more of a loose cannon than MP has ever been and will ever be.
Great post 425.
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I get that MP's not a perfect human being. He's made some very public mistakes, and it's fair to call him out on those. It's also fair if you don't particularly like the guy knowing those things about him. But the whole "MP is so out of control, just a PR nightmare!" thing is overblown in the DT fanbase. As musicians go, his record is pretty clean.
Btw, not necessarily disagreeing with you here, since it's very hard to judge how much those kinds of PR disasters travel around in musicians' circle, but I figured I'd point out that at least one band (A7X) pulled the plug on MP because the surrounding drama was untenable.
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I think that case is slightly different because A7X was caught up in the middle of that drama. MP was with them right when the DT stuff was at its ugliest. Things have calmed down a ton since then. Having MP in your band wouldn't be as much of a press hazard.
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I think that case is slightly different because A7X was caught up in the middle of that drama. MP was with them right when the DT stuff was at its ugliest. Things have calmed down a ton since then. Having MP in your band wouldn't be as much of a press hazard.
Not to mention he wasn't supposed to be a permanent member anyway. He was only supposed to be with them through 2010 to help them get used to doing the music thing without The Rev. Even if there was no post-breakup drama he wouldn't have stayed with A7X.
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Mike Mangini's name came up? I knew MM wasn't happy in DT, now he's started looking for other gigs. Prepare for drummer search v2.0
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MM is not happy in DT? That's news to me...
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Mike Mangini's name came up? I knew MM wasn't happy in DT, now he's started looking for other gigs. Prepare for drummer search v2.0
Dave Mustaine talking about asking MM =/= MM looking for other gigs.
Regarding the A7X thing: I wasn't around back then, but I always got the impression that MP and A7X mutually distanced themselves from each other because angry DT fans were blaming A7X for MP leaving, implying that MP was joining that band permanently, which was not the case.
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Mike Mangini's name came up? I knew MM wasn't happy in DT, now he's started looking for other gigs. Prepare for drummer search v2.0
Dave Mustaine talking about asking MM =/= MM looking for other gigs.
Regarding the A7X thing: I wasn't around back then, but I always got the impression that MP and A7X mutually distanced themselves from each other because angry DT fans were blaming A7X for MP leaving, implying that MP was joining that band permanently, which was not the case.
Nah, it wasn't mutual. It was pretty clear MP wanted to stay with the band and around the time A7X announced he wouldn't continue with the next leg MP posted something on twitter to the effect of "That just proves the only people you can trust are your family." This was also around the time he asked to rejoin Dream Theater so it may have been more about that than A7X but he clearly was not a happy person.
A7X distanced themselves from MP but whether it was because they didn't want to be known as "A7X with Mike Portnoy" as opposed to just A7X or because they were uncomfortable with the drama surrounding his exit from DT or a mixture of both, we can only speculate.
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Avenged Sevenfold said they wanted the permanent replacement to be someone who wasn't famous so they could give a real opportunity to someone.
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Mike Mangini's name came up? I knew MM wasn't happy in DT, now he's started looking for other gigs. Prepare for drummer search v2.0
Dave Mustaine talking about asking MM =/= MM looking for other gigs.
Mustaine talking about ANYONE =/= they were going to be offered the job as Megadeth's permanent drummer. I'd take with a massive grain of salt anything Mustaine says, especially since the end result of all of that is "wait a minute, let's not do the predictable." Not "MP was offered the job and turned it down" or "MM is as tired of being in DT as the people who said JR was going to leave after the last tour thought he was." :lol
Seriously, where the fuck do people get these certainties about DT's members that aren't supported by facts from?
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^ Like the "MP is 100% definitely going to rejoin Dream Theater at some point " crowd.
Based on what ?
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I knew MM wasn't happy in DT
I too would like to hear more about this. Please regale us with how you acquired this knowledge.
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I knew MM wasn't happy in DT
I too would like to hear more about this. Please regale us with how you acquired this knowledge.
Because XBOBX is not happy. :lol
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I knew MM wasn't happy in DT
I too would like to hear more about this. Please regale us with how you acquired this knowledge.
Because XBOBX is not happy. :lol
Right. I think MM is not happy with Systematic Chaos! :lol
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I knew MM wasn't happy in DT
I too would like to hear more about this. Please regale us with how you acquired this knowledge.
I wouldn't be happy either. Two albums in and people are still giving him shit about his drum sound, he's bending over backwards to change things about his playing personality to please the legion of DT fans. All while dodging the shitstorm of 'bring back MP' comments all over facebook. If I were him I'd be seriously considering joining Avenged Sevenfold or at least writing Never Enough pt II.
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Well, it sounds like the drum sound isn't his fault and that he even agrees with the fans complaining about it.
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I knew MM wasn't happy in DT
I too would like to hear more about this. Please regale us with how you acquired this knowledge.
I wouldn't be happy either. Two albums in and people are still giving him shit about his drum sound, he's bending over backwards to change things about his playing personality to please the legion of DT fans. All while dodging the shitstorm of 'bring back MP' comments all over facebook. If I were him I'd be seriously considering joining Avenged Sevenfold or at least writing Never Enough pt II.
Could be. I have noticed that DT fans in general on facebook and elsewhere on the web seem much more negative than what you see from the diehards here.
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Just to reiterate...the sound of the last 2 albums, especially the drums is NOT MM's fault.
Carry on
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I dunno. The amount of people saying that his snare sound at clinics sounded a lot like the album makes me wonder. You could argue that if that sound wasn't what he wanted, and he didn't do anything to change it, then it IS his fault.
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I'm sorry, but if I was the drummer in the band, and my snare sounded like shit in the studio. I'd make fucking sure the engineer or tech or whoever changed it so it sounded like I wanted it to sound. What age are we? Twelve?
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^ This, totally.
It's your instrument, it's your job to make it sound good. If MM still has such a hired-gun status that he can't make sure his drum sound doesn't sound like a drum computer, then there's other issues.
I think everybody gave him leeway for ADTOE, but DT12 was really inexcusable in terms of drum sound.
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I'm not sure. I'm trying to give MM the benefit of the doubt. My take on things (which could be very wrong) is that his noob status
in the band left him without any clout to make sonic suggestions regarding his drum sound. Based on some of his comments I don't think he
liked the drum sounds on either album but felt like he would be stepping on JP's toes if he waded too deep in that direction, so he
measured his words very carefully and tried to ride the fence.
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Well he's three albums and 5 years into the band now so i think it's about time he started having his way on the next album.
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I don't have a problem with MM's drum sound. It's better than listening to MP riding that f*cking crash cymbal all the way through every f*cking song...
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I don't have a problem with MM's drum sound. It's better than listening to MP riding that f*cking crash cymbal all the way through every f*cking song...
Or doing his trademark Herta Fills around the kit over a ballad.
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This has turned into an MM thread. Hehehe.
I think that MM was pretty clear in one interview that his drum sound was really a product of him and the team still trying to figure out how to record with his drum kit, which had problems of sound leakage. Here is the relevant portion of the interview by our fellow DTF member:
So do you have any goals for the next album, in terms of sound, in terms of drumming, maybe some stylistic changes that you’d like to try?
In terms of sound, again, I’m trying to learn with every experience I have, I learned a lot from the “Dream Theater” recording, and I learned a different thing from the “A Dramatic Turn Of Events” recording. From “A Dramatic Turn Of Events”, I learned a lot about almost sounding like there were two microphones in the room and that was it. That was not the case, but that’s my impression of my sound. It’s like, ok, there are those drums in the room, and you can hear all the leakage, because I have all that stuff…once you add a zillion tracks of guitar and keyboards, then my performed nuances and power disappears without detailed equalization strategies.
In terms of style, I’m at a new place after two albums and tours both in chops and comfort.
Τalking about the leakage, on the drum track of “On The Backs Of Angels” we can hear you humming, right after the piano solo where you get back on the track...
I’m sure you can, I’m always counting and stuff like that, yeah. My limbs fit into time. What is time and where here is it located? It is felt via my voice so my limbs have something tangible to connect to. On “Dream Theater”, I learned a lot about the feel with the time changes because my snare sound was completely different for me, I didn’t come up with it, and I evolved and changed because of that, here’s what I did: That really different sound made me put ghost notes off of the snare and on to ride cymbals and hi-hats, so essentially because of that change that was suggested to me, and because I was able to adapt to someone else’s ideas, I grew. I want to be clear about that, if I’m too stubborn with things that I want, the way I want them, how do you grow? But if something new comes along and I think “wow, this is really not what I want” but I’ll do it because people have a vision for something, I know that they trust me, that I’m a good guy, then let’s do it together, let’s work together and we’ll follow it.
And look what came out for me, some gem, I honestly would not go back and trade that just because that snare sound wasn’t something I wanted, because we all got something from it, right? So it is what it is, I know I’m going to grow with this next album. All I’m doing right now to prepare, is I have come up with ways to make everyone’s job a lot easier with manipulating my sound, and that will be for us to discuss in private, and for the guys to assess, the band engineer, to agree or disagree with me, because I’ve really worked hard trying to make things easier. I want to say I have a lot of 'junk' on my kit...
But you use all of it, it’s not junk!
Yeah I use it, but people can see it that way. I have a lot of stuff, I would not want to be the engineer having to try to isolate these sounds, it’s freaking impossible, I’m giving them a very tough job, so I’ve come up with ways to actually help that, so we’ll see what happens.
If I was engineering it, I would want at least a solid 4 or 5 days alone with it. I’d then want another two days after all the instruments are weaved in just to adjust to all those other frequencies. However, I basically have to get the drum sound set in a day or two. Once my sound it set, we don’t want to change it and I am not involved in the final production of it after the others still are taking time to craft their sounds. This is a big challenge for me because I am not hearing what the end result is when I record.
Jordan can work out his sounds at home as that’s what one can do with internal keyboard sounds. I cannot do that. When I take my 16 snare drums into different rooms, every single one of them changes. If another person hits them they change dramatically. It is bizarre. Also, the guitar gets worked on at some point every week for months while we’re in the studio. I don’t get that kind of time, luxury or flexibility, or foresight into possibly wanting to change some drum parts or sounds after I hear the decades of tracks put on top of them.
My toms exploded with transience on “Dream Theater.” They were incredible. However, you can’t do anything you want to the toms without affecting all the “ride” sources, which are the rides, hihats, effects and stacks, on my kit. My ride sources are more important to me than a snare drum will ever be. I think I’ve found a way to get more isolation in order to sound more like I play with regard to cutting through all the guitar and keyboard tracks.
Again, we’re all trying to evolve. I’m trying to make all of our jobs easier while shooting for the best compromise between how I hear things and create drum parts based on it, to how it is heard on the other side of the glass in the context of finished songs and a completely full sound spectrum where everyone wants to be heard the way they each perceive things.
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I don't have a problem with MM's drum sound. It's better than listening to MP riding that f*cking crash cymbal all the way through every f*cking song...
Or doing his trademark Herta Fills around the kit over a ballad.
I don't have a problem with either of those things because MP's kit post I&W always sounded awesome.
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Wow, I guess that ends any chance of a great snare-sound on any future albums. :|
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I think I’ve found a way to get more isolation
Ummm, use less drums maybs?
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I think I’ve found a way to get more isolation
Ummm, use less drums maybs?
I don't think that's the problem. MP's drumsets were always quite large but they always sounded great. I think the problem is how close together MM's drums are. His kit has a lot of parts but is pretty compact. It's harder to prevent bleed when the drums and cymbals are resonating closer to each other.
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Wow, I guess that ends any chance of a great snare-sound on any future albums. :|
I don't have high hopes either. A while ago MM posted on Facebook about a snare (can't remember the model), and how it sounded like a shotgun. I looked up the model, and it's essentially a marching drum snare. Now, of course we don't know whether he will actually use that snare for DT13, but given how DT12's snare sound could already be described as a shotgun sound, it looks rather likely he will.
I don't think that's the problem. MP's drumsets were always quite large but they always sounded great. I think the problem is how close together MM's drums are. His kit has a lot of parts but is pretty compact. It's harder to prevent bleed when the drums and cymbals are resonating closer to each other.
Well, I think the closeness is a *result* of him trying to cram too many drums around him. It's not as if had space to the left or right.
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The main problem with his snare sound on DT was the combination of the style of snare and the flat, compressed sound of the record.
While I prefer much punchier, snappier snare sounds, the one he was using can definitely work in the right context. The problem was that the mix/master used for the main release of the album cuts away any sort of character that type of snare sound might have. It results in it sounding too blunt.
Basically, it's a snare sound that absolutely can work, and I get what he was going for with it, but it's also a very easy snare style to muck up somewhere along the way in production. Among other factors, it really demands a very dynamic production, and it's no secret that DT went very much in the opposite direction.
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I think the part about the interview that really makes me a sad panda, is when he explains how he had to transfer the snare ghost notes onto the high-hat and ride. I mean, he tries to pitch it as "growing" and stuff, but there *is* a reason why ghost notes are played on the snare, not on high-hats or rides.
That measure of transferring them should be a last-resort thing to do, IMHO, the kind of thing you do when equipment breaks down at a live gig. When it happens in the studio, where the sound choice robs you of the key way of introducing dynamics in your play, that's when you take a step back and say "ok, let's talk about this here. This simply won't be good."
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Yeah that part got me as well. When I was a drummer I always loved playing ghost notes on the snare. I loved what they added to the sound. Guess it´s not much of a priority to Mike.
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That measure of transferring them should be a last-resort thing to do, IMHO, the kind of thing you do when equipment breaks down at a live gig. When it happens in the studio, where the sound choice robs you of the key way of introducing dynamics in your play, that's when you take a step back and say "ok, let's talk about this here. This simply won't be good."
I don't know much about what you're talking about, and I don't think the guys in DT are militant with what's going on in the studio.. that seemed like MP's thing... but if I was the new guy in the band I'm not sure I'd speak up about it either. 5 years later now? Sure.. he should have said something for DT12...
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Rumbo, help me out here. Sometimes what you hear in the studio playback sounds great at the time but during mixing you may here the issues and it's too late to correct?
I've only dealt with small studios with crap budgets knowing what we were getting into.
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Rumbo, help me out here. Sometimes what you hear in the studio playback sounds great at the time but during mixing you may here the issues and it's too late to correct?
I don't think this was a "crap, but did we get ourselves into" kind of situation that they only realized last minute, at least not for the snare sound (the EQ stuff they might have realized too late when the other instruments came in). MM says he had to adjust his playing style, which means he already had that sound during tracking.
I think no matter how you slice it, MM was fully aware of the drum sound and its consequences in the final mix.
Also, why would he only have 2 days of setup for a kit of that size? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if that was MP's schedule since he probably has honed his kit recording setup down to a T. But giving yourself 2 days for a kit that size seems to be like asking for trouble.
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That's bizarre. There's a passing similarity to Journey, I guess, but it's nowhere near the blatant "influences" they had on later albums.
It wouldn't surprise me if they had "Journey Escape riff" posted for somewhere around the 4:20 mark of IF. Not like it's a copy, but compare it to around the 1:40 mark of Escape.
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So, MM should use a smaller kit for recording to get a better ambiance and control the sound of each Tom and cymbal. Thanks!
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I think I’ve found a way to get more isolation
Ummm, use less drums maybs?
I don't think that's the problem. MP's drumsets were always quite large but they always sounded great. I think the problem is how close together MM's drums are. His kit has a lot of parts but is pretty compact. It's harder to prevent bleed when the drums and cymbals are resonating closer to each other.
MP catered his kit to the song. Case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTmBU9lT_AY - Wither
Ane even on more complicated things, his kit is marginally smaller than MM's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEUlsG0XVRU - TCoT
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That's nice to see, yeah. At least in prog, quieter songs correlate with less busy, so you can let through the drum nuances by scaling down the kit.
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Those videos reminded me just how beautiful MP's drumming is. His playing style is almost melodic. It's incredible.
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The main problem with his snare sound on DT was the combination of the style of snare and the flat, compressed sound of the record.
While I prefer much punchier, snappier snare sounds, the one he was using can definitely work in the right context.
Correction: the main problem was the very low tuning of the snare. Tuned higher it would've been punchier and snappier with more attack.
Sorry for the OT!
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Those videos reminded me just how beautiful MP's drumming is. His playing style is almost melodic. It's incredible.
It's interesting. I totally agree, and disagree at the same time. I think the TCOT drumming shows perfectly why he is considered a world class drummer, but yet not one of the "greats". He has his toolkit, I.e. the fills, the crash combinations, but he does not venture away from it. For example, he almost criminally underutilizes the main drum in from of him, the snare. It barely does more than mark the 4 on the beat.
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If you guys have time to kill, Mike did a 1.5 hour interview with Jamey Jasta on the Jasta Show. It's a good listen, he talks about DT, MA, WD and a ton of other stuff. It's not just an interview, but a conversation, which is refreshing. Check it!
Jamey Jasta Show (https://soundcloud.com/jameyjasta/episode-88-mike-portnoy)
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If you guys have time to kill, Mike did a 1.5 hour interview with Jamey Jasta on the Jasta Show. It's a good listen, he talks about DT, MA, WD and a ton of other stuff. It's not just an interview, but a conversation, which is refreshing. Check it!
Jamey Jasta Show (https://soundcloud.com/jameyjasta/episode-88-mike-portnoy)
His "fuck the grammys" comment almost made it sound like he was bummed that DT didn't win. That's kinda nice. :tup
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MP with Twisted Sister:
https://bravewords.com/news/twisted-sister-play-first-show-with-mike-portnoy-video-streaming-set-list-revealed
I am absolutely getting this CD/DVD!
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(https://bravewords.com/medias-static/images/news/2015/556B718E-twisted-sister-play-first-show-with-mike-portnoy-video-streaming-set-list-revealed-image.jpg)
John Travolta is in Twisted Sister? :omg:
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That looks like a shooped collection of solo pics.
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It's a shooped collection of shooped pics. I'm pretty sure that's a wax statue of John Travolta. And one of Cher too.
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and Paul Stanley far left and Bruce Dickinson 2nd from the right :lol
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Let's not forget about the beautiful Sarah Jessica Parker.
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If you guys have time to kill, Mike did a 1.5 hour interview with Jamey Jasta on the Jasta Show. It's a good listen, he talks about DT, MA, WD and a ton of other stuff. It's not just an interview, but a conversation, which is refreshing. Check it!
Jamey Jasta Show (https://soundcloud.com/jameyjasta/episode-88-mike-portnoy)
His "fuck the grammys" comment almost made it sound like he was bummed that DT didn't win. That's kinda nice. :tup
I don't think it was about that. The interviewer asking him what he thinks about how DT handle themselves nowadays and his answer being "you don't wanna know what I really think" makes me think the opposite (30 minutes in).
Some of the stuff he said at 32 minutes in really made me raise an eyebrow. "I've done more in the last 5 years than I ever have." "They say I'm the only drummer who can leave a band after 25 years and become more popular, win more awards."
So he does care about awards, after all. I bet if he was nominated for a Grammy, he wouldn't talk trash about it, he'd be all loud 'n' proud.
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and Bruce Dickinson 2nd from the right :lol
I was more thinking Elton John:
(https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Music/Pix/pictures/2011/4/20/1303290399546/Elton-John-007.jpg)
Some of the stuff he said at 32 minutes in really made me raise an eyebrow. "I've done more in the last 5 years than I ever have." "They say I'm the only drummer who can leave a band after 25 years and become more popular, win more awards."
The "more popular" one takes a bit of creative interpretation I think. I highly doubt any of his side projects are even remotely close to DT in terms of sales.
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I don't see what MP could possibly be basing that on. In terms of sales, DT blows all of MP's projects away. Same thing with concert attendance. If he's just counting up the raw number of awards he gets and counting that as proof of his increased popularity, I don't know, maybe he has gotten more awards in the last 5 years than he did before, but I don't see how that would mean anything.
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https://www.backstageauctions.com/catalog/mike-portnoy-dream-theater/ac/0/951/
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There are quite a few tasty goodies there! Awake set, how the hell MP could give it away?! :o
So, if somebody have a few extra dollars, why not buy a piece of DT (or other MP projects) history to your home! ;)
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If I had the money I would get that drumset. Also I'm amazed Mike Portnoy kept the sticks that he used to record certain songs with.
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There are quite a few tasty goodies there! Awake set, how the hell MP could give it away?!
Opening bid: $7500
Not exactly giving it away.
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I instantly thought it was for charity, but it isn't, is it?
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I instantly thought, "uh oh, he needs money".
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If you guys have time to kill, Mike did a 1.5 hour interview with Jamey Jasta on the Jasta Show. It's a good listen, he talks about DT, MA, WD and a ton of other stuff. It's not just an interview, but a conversation, which is refreshing. Check it!
Jamey Jasta Show (https://soundcloud.com/jameyjasta/episode-88-mike-portnoy)
His "fuck the grammys" comment almost made it sound like he was bummed that DT didn't win. That's kinda nice. :tup
Quite the contrary to me, but I may be wrong. I see it more as What is it to be nominated as the Grammys are s***?
B.Lee
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Mike posted this pic and caption from his most recent TS show. That drum set is so awesome.
Mike Portnoy @MikePortnoy 8h8 hours ago
For all you drum-porn fans, my A7X/AMOB Mirage Monster made its glorious return to the stage last night in NJ w TS!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHed7lrWgAAtPJ1.jpg)4
:metal
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Does he get a solo spot in their shows? If not, that seems like a lot of wasted pieces since TS' material could probably easily be handled by a <20-piece kit.
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Does he get a solo spot in their shows? If not, that seems like a lot of wasted pieces since TS' material could probably easily be handled by a <20-piece kit.
MP uses a lot of the extra pieces in his signature fills. I'm not saying that he does, but I think he uses every piece of that kit in a single rock song.
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Info about MPs upcoming Metal Allegiance album, with tracklist and featured guest musicians. Due out September 18.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/lamb_of_god_pantera_anthrax_mastodon_members_will_appear_on_debut_metal_allegiance_record.html
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I'll definitely give it a listen when it comes out.
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I hate to say it, as I was really looking forward to this, but the whole 'different vocalist on each track' thing is a complete turn off for me and will likely be a deal breaker.
Kind of bummed, and again, this is where MP leaving DT leaves its biggest hole. I am not interested in following MP go from project to project. I'm not going to invest myself in a project not knowing if there'll be a follow up or what not.
I was seriously interested in an MP thrash band, but this actually seems kind of cheesey. I'll sample it for sure, and reserve the right to change my mind, but tbh, I'm not sure I really care about this now.
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I hate to say it, as I was really looking forward to this, but the whole 'different vocalist on each track' thing is a complete turn off for me and will likely be a deal breaker.
That was my first reaction too. I wouldn't say "deal breaker" but these projects with vocalists all over the place rarely impress me. Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised.
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I don't really care about any of that. I just care if it is good music or not.
Normally when I've seen similar projects (different vocalists/musicians on every track), it's been covers or a tribute album. These are all original songs, no?
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Probot was all originals too ?
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10. "We Rock"
:rollin
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Yeah, right?
I think MP is still trying to talk Neal Morse into playing it.
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I hate to say it, as I was really looking forward to this, but the whole 'different vocalist on each track' thing is a complete turn off for me and will likely be a deal breaker.
That was my first reaction too. I wouldn't say "deal breaker" but these projects with vocalists all over the place rarely impress me. Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised.
Ditto. I'm fussy enough with vocalists, so the more vocalists you include, the more you're dividing the chances of me liking the album overall.
10. "We Rock"
:rollin
Why is that funny? I'm guessing it's a cover of the Dio song.
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If it's not a cover - I just find it cheesy when hard rock bands call songs things like that. Or have the name of the band in the song title.
Also calling a song " We Rock " - you had damn well better ! :getoffmylawn:
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it's a bonus track for the Deluxe Edition - I think you can bet on it being a Dio cover and he did rock , so no worries ;D
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it's a bonus track for the Deluxe Edition - I think you can bet on it being a Dio cover and he did rock , so no worries ;D
Given the members, and the fact it's a bonus track, I'd assume that it's a Dio cover unless I hear otherwise.
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I don't care who the song is by, that's a cheesy-ass song title.
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It's a Dio cover. Perhaps MP could be cut some slack just this once? ;)
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It's a Dio cover. Perhaps MP could be cut some slack just this once? ;)
I don't care who the song is by, that's a cheesy-ass song title.
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It's a Dio cover. Perhaps MP could be cut some slack just this once? ;)
MP being cut some slack? Where do you think you are? Not DTF? ::)
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Winery Dogs are alright, but far from amazing. Heavy metal is Portnoy's calling, that's the type of music he should be doing. He needs to stop these projects, and joining established bands etc. What is love to see him do is form his own new metal band, where he's main man, the Steve Harris of the group. I'm glad he has nothing more to do with Adrenaline Mob, they weren't good enough.
I could see him creating a new band that creates progressive metal. Progressive more in the vein of Tool rather than Dream Theater for example. That's what I want to see. My guess is that if MP could have had it totally his way there would have been much less 'wankery' in DT. I say this because most of the wankery' in DT is about the keyboards and guitar. I can see MP in a band that's more progressive in the way Tool is, where there's more of an overall focus on percussion.
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It's a Dio cover. Perhaps MP could be cut some slack just this once? ;)
MP being cut some slack? Where do you think you are? Not DTF? ::)
:P :P :P
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The fact that a lot of people don't know We Rock is a Dio song gives me very little faith in mankind.
BTW, I thought the title was cheesy when I first heard it but the song is legendary and Dio gets a pass for everything he has ever done that might seem cheesy.
As for the album, someone in the comments mentioned it reminded them of the Roadrunner United album. This is true, and that album I got immediately, listened to it, and have never put it on again.
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I found this one funnier:
Additional Screams: D. Randall Blythe
Sounds totally like a Heavy Metal movie credit or something :lol
Metal Allegiance - The Movie
Beer Runner: John Smithers
Onsite medics: Los Angeles EMT Union
Needle sterilizer: Rick "a little rust hasn't hurt anyone" Meliczki (In loving memory of)
Top slut: Candy Williams
2nd slut: Woodga Bloamee
Top slut body double: Rebecca Hanson
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The fact that a lot of people don't know We Rock is a Dio song gives me very little faith in mankind.
*shrugs* I don't like Dio.
BTW, I thought the title was cheesy when I first heard it but the song is legendary and Dio gets a pass for everything he has ever done that might seem cheesy.
Not with me.
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I'm looking forward to the metal album, some great people on board and hopefully the music should be metal crushing.
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The fact that a lot of people don't know We Rock is a Dio song gives me very little faith in mankind.
*shrugs* I don't like Dio.
BTW, I thought the title was cheesy when I first heard it but the song is legendary and Dio gets a pass for everything he has ever done that might seem cheesy.
Not with me.
You, sir, have no soul.
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The fact that a lot of people don't know We Rock is a Dio song gives me very little faith in mankind.
Or...y'know....they've....not heard it.
It does happen. Sometimes some people haven't actually heard every song ever recorded.
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The fact that a lot of people don't know We Rock is a Dio song gives me very little faith in mankind.
*shrugs* I don't like Dio.
BTW, I thought the title was cheesy when I first heard it but the song is legendary and Dio gets a pass for everything he has ever done that might seem cheesy.
Not with me.
You, sir, have no soul.
:angry: STOP NOT LIKING WHAT I LIKE !!!!!!!!!
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It does happen. Sometimes some people haven't actually heard every song ever recorded.
Unless you're briang.
I'm more disappointed that Ripper Owens didn't get his own song and is only on the Dio cover. He's the only guest I was excited for.
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I liked when Slash did the different vocalists thing. Maybe I'll like it here too.
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The fact that a lot of people don't know We Rock is a Dio song gives me very little faith in mankind.
*shrugs* I don't like Dio.
BTW, I thought the title was cheesy when I first heard it but the song is legendary and Dio gets a pass for everything he has ever done that might seem cheesy.
Not with me.
You, sir, have no soul.
:angry: STOP NOT LIKING WHAT I LIKE !!!!!!!!!
Dude, stop not having a soul!
BTW, I agree Ripper should get to do an original song
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Mike posted this pic and caption from his most recent TS show. That drum set is so awesome.
Mike Portnoy @MikePortnoy 8h8 hours ago
For all you drum-porn fans, my A7X/AMOB Mirage Monster made its glorious return to the stage last night in NJ w TS!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHed7lrWgAAtPJ1.jpg)4
:metal
My recollection was that the tone was weak on the acrylic shells. Not enough definition, particularly when you hit as many of them as MP does. As for it being overkill, it doesn't look much bigger than Pero's kits have been. In fact it might be smaller than AJP's A-Mob kit.
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I hate to say it, as I was really looking forward to this, but the whole 'different vocalist on each track' thing is a complete turn off for me and will likely be a deal breaker.
I'm not fan of the revolving singers either, but it seems to me like the "extra lead guitarist" on every track would be worse. Like they need to cram 4 solos into every song?
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I hate to say it, as I was really looking forward to this, but the whole 'different vocalist on each track' thing is a complete turn off for me and will likely be a deal breaker.
I'm not fan of the revolving singers either, but it seems to me like the "extra lead guitarist" on every track would be worse. Like they need to cram 4 solos into every song?
Or having multiple bass players....
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This was never going to be my cup of tea anyway, but i totally get people's trepidations about tha revolving-door approach. Having a different lineup for each song never lets the album get into a flow.
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A project like this is when I think Mike Portnoy just loves the idea of saying, "I played with this guy," and adding it to his list. It's like he has this list in his head of musicians he wants to work with at some point, and a project like this enables him to check a bunch off the list. Not saying there is any fundamentally wrong with it, just that that is what it comes off as to me.
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Let me also be the first to say:
TRAPPED INSIDE THIS TRIANGULUM!!
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Yeah, too bad Mike is a little too much of a fanboy. It must be something of a dreamproject (no pun intended) for him. I bet he doesn't even realise some of these guys are even honored to work with HIM.
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I liked when Slash did the different vocalists thing. Maybe I'll like it here too.
I preferred it when he brought Myles Kennedy in as a permanent lead vocalist though. I share the majority opinion here, having a different singer for each song makes it less interesting to me.
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A project like this is when I think Mike Portnoy just loves the idea of saying, "I played with this guy," and adding it to his list. It's like he has this list in his head of musicians he wants to work with at some point, and a project like this enables him to check a bunch off the list. Not saying there is any fundamentally wrong with it, just that that is what it comes off as to me.
This. I'm not into albums with different lead vocalists on each track.
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This might be interesting. I'll make sure to check it out. :metal
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The revolving musicians is the foundation of this project. This was born out of the Metal Masters clinics. The whole thing is a nod to metal both past and present.
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Well, how closely tied it was going to be to Metal Allegiance wasn't clear up til now. I think a lot of people hoped that it was going to be MP, Skolnik, Ellefson and a fixed singer, and they would create a regular album.
I mean, when you look at the lineup, it's not even just the singers that change. They have rotating bass and guitars too. This will be a very heterogeneous album.
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The revolving musicians is the foundation of this project. This was born out of the Metal Masters clinics. The whole thing is a nod to metal both past and present.
Right, and I can follow that but,
I think a lot of people hoped that it was going to be MP, Skolnik, Ellefson and a fixed singer, and they would create a regular album.
This describes me.
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The revolving musicians is the foundation of this project. This was born out of the Metal Masters clinics. The whole thing is a nod to metal both past and present.
The only ones that have proven to be able to include different singers and instrumentalists and make it work for me are Ayreon and Avantasia. And there its mostly different singers for different rolesand a few guest solo spots. Otherwise I'm not too fond of all the "supergroups" with all the more or less famous musicians. I will surely check this out but I fear that it is more a name-dropping project than a real band with great music.
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I agree with you all about the multiple "extra" musicians. I really think this project was to scratch an itch. I could be waaaay wrong, but i wouldn't even put this as a Transatlantic part time gig.
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I liked when Slash did the different vocalists thing. Maybe I'll like it here too.
I preferred it when he brought Myles Kennedy in as a permanent lead vocalist though. I share the majority opinion here, having a different singer for each song makes it less interesting to me.
Yea it's definitely good that he eventually made a solid band, but it was cool and unique to try something else for his first album.
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Has Slash ever done vocals ? I know Duff and Matt sing but has Slash ever done any kind of melodic vocals ever ?
Can he sing ? Does he not want to ?
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Has Slash ever done vocals ? I know Duff and Matt sing but has Slash ever done any kind of melodic vocals ever ?
Can he sing ? Does he not want to ?
I'd rather he didn't.
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Has Slash ever done vocals ? I know Duff and Matt sing but has Slash ever done any kind of melodic vocals ever ?
Can he sing ? Does he not want to ?
It's pretty much a mixture of he does not want to and probably does not think he's competent enough, especially when you look at all the vocalists he has worked with. Heck, I think there was a time where Mark Tremonti felt like he was not a good enough lead vocalist, to sing a whole album. He's a great back-up vocalist, didn't think he was not good enough in lead and people's good thoughts on All I Was helped him think that maybe he's more than competent enough in the vocal department to make it work as a solo band. I say that worked out well for him.
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Has Slash ever done vocals ? I know Duff and Matt sing but has Slash ever done any kind of melodic vocals ever ?
Can he sing ? Does he not want to ?
I'm fairly certain he did backing vocals on some Use Your Illusion songs. Look it up and I'm sure you could find out which ones.
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Well, how closely tied it was going to be to Metal Allegiance wasn't clear up til now. I think a lot of people hoped that it was going to be MP, Skolnik, Ellefson and a fixed singer, and they would create a regular album.
I mean, when you look at the lineup, it's not even just the singers that change. They have rotating bass and guitars too. This will be a very heterogeneous album.
That's what I was hoping too as I like those guys. The only other guy on that list I'd want to hear from is Dug Pinnick.
I'm sure some will dig this though.
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Well, I for one am looking forward to this album, should be a fun listen.
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It's a story that should be familiar to most of us but a great tribute nonetheless.
https://bravewords.com/news/mike-portnoy-pays-tribute-to-grade-11-high-school-teacher-thank-you-pat-lynch-for-changing-my-life
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It's a story that should be familiar to most of us but a great tribute nonetheless.
https://bravewords.com/news/mike-portnoy-pays-tribute-to-grade-11-high-school-teacher-thank-you-pat-lynch-for-changing-my-life
Still an amazing story.
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I'd still like to know more about the private jet? Who in their relationship could afford to rent one for a flight? (or own it?).
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It was a PA28; a single prop.
Not sure why you're asking the question but it wasn't a jet. Hiring a single prop isn't prohibitively expensive.
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It's a story that should be familiar to most of us but a great tribute nonetheless.
https://bravewords.com/news/mike-portnoy-pays-tribute-to-grade-11-high-school-teacher-thank-you-pat-lynch-for-changing-my-life
Gotta say, as much as MP's emotional intensity creates problems for him sometimes, it also creates some really beautiful moments and stories like this as well. Really nice, sad and powerful stuff.
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It was a PA28; a single prop.
Not sure why you're asking the question but it wasn't a jet. Hiring a single prop isn't prohibitively expensive.
Because every article I've read says "private jet" which can be quite expensive.
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It was a PA28; a single prop.
Not sure why you're asking the question but it wasn't a jet. Hiring a single prop isn't prohibitively expensive.
Because every article I've read says "private jet" which can be quite expensive.
It was a privately owned Piper Cherokee and was non-commercial, flying under general aviation rules. Since there were four people on board I'd guess that they were riding up with another couple, one of which was a pilot.
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...and the pilot sadly suffered a heart attack. The circumstances around the crash were awful.
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First track off Metal Allegiance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zjXEXx-mIdc
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Well it sounds like early Testament which is no surprise.......... it's a decent enough thrashy song. I've been listening to quite a bit of thrash lately and this certainly doesn't stand out as much better than anything else.
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I agree, it's a decent thrashy song that I enjoyed enough, but nothing exceptional that makes me need this album.
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First track off Metal Allegiance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zjXEXx-mIdc
It wasn't bad, but this song could have easily been on The Formation of Damnation.
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I loved it!
I will have to check out The Formation of Damnation.
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Fun enough, but pretty typical 80s thrash.
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I loved it!
I will have to check out The Formation of Damnation.
That is a great album!
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I was no thrash fan back in the day but I like some now. This is exactly how I like it too, and struggle to find. I will probably pick this up.
Melodic enough for me. Chuck is hit and miss for me but he's fine here.
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First track off Metal Allegiance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zjXEXx-mIdc
Pretty cool actually!
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Fun enough, but pretty typical 80s thrash.
I was honestly expecting James Hetfield to start singing. And when the vocals came out, I actually thought for a second it was James.
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Mark Osegueda is pretty funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCnr4GnBxJ0 :lol
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First track off Metal Allegiance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zjXEXx-mIdc
Mike's drumming :omg: He's definitely in his element!
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Metal by numbers, which I feel like most modern thrash metal is.
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Just listened to this, fantastic to hear Mike playing like that! Digging it.
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If you guys have time to kill, Mike did a 1.5 hour interview with Jamey Jasta on the Jasta Show. It's a good listen, he talks about DT, MA, WD and a ton of other stuff. It's not just an interview, but a conversation, which is refreshing. Check it!
Jamey Jasta Show (https://soundcloud.com/jameyjasta/episode-88-mike-portnoy)
My favorite part of this interview is when Mike namechecks John Zorn. Never got the impression that he was on Mike's radar before. That's awesome.
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First track off Metal Allegiance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zjXEXx-mIdc
Mike's drumming :omg: He's definitely in his element!
Mike's flying around that kit. I'm happy for him that he got to do this project. He's been in bands of all different styles but he's never been a true metal band (Avenged Sevenfold doesn't count since he only recorded the parts and didn't write them).
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First track off Metal Allegiance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zjXEXx-mIdc
Mike's drumming :omg: He's definitely in his element!
Mike's flying around that kit. I'm happy for him that he got to do this project. He's been in bands of all different styles but he's never been a true metal band (Avenged Sevenfold doesn't count since he only recorded the parts and didn't write them).
I guess Adrenaline Mob didn't count? :lol
-Marc.
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Adrenaline Mob
were are basically Spinal Tap without the jokes.
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It's more appropriate for this type of music, but that track might break the record for brickwalled audio. I mean, holy crap.
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It's more appropriate for this type of music, but that track might break the record for brickwalled audio. I mean, holy crap.
The new Metal Allegiance one? It's not that compressed for modern metal music. The general production isn't stellar by any means, but for dynamic range it seems alright.
(If I had to take a guess, I'd say around DR7)
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It's more appropriate for this type of music, but that track might break the record for brickwalled audio. I mean, holy crap.
The new Metal Allegiance one? It's not that compressed for modern metal music. The general production isn't stellar by any means, but for dynamic range it seems alright.
(If I had to take a guess, I'd say around DR7)
It could have been a lot worse. I looked at the wavs it's right to the edge but not over. Some tracks hit harder than others, but not over.
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I've had a Metal Allegiance Youtube video running at work today, figured I'd share this gem with you:
https://youtu.be/tj_3FFEpCeo?t=1955
:rollin
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I've had a Metal Allegiance Youtube video running at work today, figured I'd share this gem with you:
https://youtu.be/tj_3FFEpCeo?t=1955
:rollin
Greatest. Harmonies. Ever.
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Um, the song kind of sucks.
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Of course I haven't heard the rest of the album, but this might be the first tribute album with original songs I've encountered.
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JOE SHALL PASS!
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JOE SHALL PASS!
GAS!
(Sorry, couldn't resist. I'll leave you alone for now. :))
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I just did. :lol
No joke. Lol
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Of course I haven't heard the rest of the album, but this might be the first tribute album with original songs I've encountered.
Nope, there is major impacts by Steve Morse! ;D
By the way, IMO the coolest tribute album that I know :tup
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I've had a Metal Allegiance Youtube video running at work today, figured I'd share this gem with you:
https://youtu.be/tj_3FFEpCeo?t=1955
:rollin
I just clicked on that video. I saw the Twitch.tv logo on the top right. Does anyone know what the channel was the stream under?
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Of course I haven't heard the rest of the album, but this might be the first tribute album with original songs I've encountered.
:lol There have definitely been plenty of others, occasionally even on purpose.
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inb4 ADTOE gets a mention.
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Mike and the rest of the Neal Morse band is going to join Cruise to the Edge.
https://www.facebook.com/cruisetotheedge/videos/1029510730406116/?fref=nf (https://www.facebook.com/cruisetotheedge/videos/1029510730406116/?fref=nf)
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Mike and the rest of the Neal Morse band is going to join Cruise to the Edge.
https://www.facebook.com/cruisetotheedge/videos/1029510730406116/?fref=nf (https://www.facebook.com/cruisetotheedge/videos/1029510730406116/?fref=nf)
Just saw this. Knowing Mike, I wonder if he'll get the rest of the NMB to play a whole YES album in its entirety? Or perhaps just a few songs? Will Mike FINALLY get Neal to play "Heart Of The Sunrise"?! (Transatlantic fans know what I'm talking about...)
Or will they play Close To The Edge, since they've already covered and played "And You And I" live? Or perhaps just THAT song and one or two others as their "tribute" to Chris Squire? It'll be interesting to be sure, and I wonder if either Mike and/or Neal will record it for release, because let's face it, they record almost EVERYTHING they do music-related and much of it does get released, so this would be an easy sell for their fans, especially those who are also YES fans (myself included).
-Marc.
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I wonder if he'll get the rest of the NMB to play a whole YES album in its entirety? Or perhaps just a few songs? Will Mike FINALLY get Neal to play "Heart Of The Sunrise"?! (Transatlantic fans know what I'm talking about...)
Well, I'm a Transatlantic fan and I don't know what you're talking about - care to fill me in?
Or will they play Close To The Edge, since they've already covered and played "And You And I" live? Or perhaps just THAT song and one or two others as their "tribute" to Chris Squire? It'll be interesting to be sure, and I wonder if either Mike and/or Neal will record it for release, because let's face it, they record almost EVERYTHING they do music-related and much of it does get released, so this would be an easy sell for their fans, especially those who are also YES fans (myself included).
Judging by what MP's done in the past and that he's serving as a music director for the CS tribute, I'd imagine that you'll see an hour long set (or maybe more) consisting of a variety of different lineups that are all paying tribute to CS. I'd imagine it will be more of a prog version of Metal Allegiance. To separate it from the Neal Morse band or keep from drawing attention to any single band, I'd imagine there won't be any full bands doing tributes unless during their own individual sets.
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Fish Out of Water material?
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This sounds a bit more interesting to me.........
https://youtu.be/s74NFi9xh8Y
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I'm no metal listener, but this all sounds ... old to me. Is this just how little those genres have progressed? Like, at least the first half of that snippet reminded me of mid-90's metal.
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I'm no metal listener, but this all sounds ... old to me. Is this just how little those genres have progressed?
The thing about genres is that when they progress, they become new genres.
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eyyy, word.
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Unless I'm working out or really pissed off, I have no interest in thrash. I don't think the genre is capable of evolving. Sure elements of Thrash has been added to other genres but an album release by Slayer, Overkill, etc. sound the same as an album released in the 1980s. That being said, I wasn't planning on getting this and I'm still not sure if I am but I'm leaning closer to picking it up.
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yeah i hear ya, but surely its just a case of 'it does what it says on the tin'. if they've said they're making a balls to the wall thrash album I wouldn't expect anything less than the sound of 80s Big Four. Now if they said 'we're making progressive thrash', then the arguments about it not sounding 'evolved' would hold some water.
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I'm no metal listener, but this all sounds ... old to me. Is this just how little those genres have progressed?
The thing about genres is that when they progress, they become new genres.
I don't know. You can tell the difference between 90s prog metal and 2015 prog metal. These tunes just sound as if the had been written 20 years ago.
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But prog, by nature, should be progressive.
#notthisshitagain
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This music was made by fans of thrash, for fans of thrash. Metal Allegiance is pretty much Fozzy.
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Yup it's a clear callback to 90s thrash. Don't think it's trying to be modern.
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I was excited to hear it because MP was excited about it, so I wanted to hear him play something that excited him a lot.
He sounded pretty good on that first track. But it's not a song that does anything for me.
I suspect the rest of the album will be the same.
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I think if I go into Metal Allegiance with relatively low expectations, it will be fine. Not expecting much.
It sounds more like B-level thrash though.
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I think others have said it, but my perception of the thing is that MP ticked off another one of those things he's always wanted to do. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with it really. But I also have to admit that I'm starting to categorize his post-DT album under "That thrash metal album", " That butt rock album" etc :lol
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Butt rock?
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Butt rock?
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=butt+rock
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x_Ass&BallsRock_x
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ran into Mike at the Van Halen show in Philly last night :tup
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ran into Mike at the Van Halen show in Philly last night :tup
:metal
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Hopefully on purpose ! :censored
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ran into Mike at the Van Halen show in Philly last night :tup
One of my stupid pet peeves, but there was no Van Halen show in Philly last night. :p
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I've had a Metal Allegiance Youtube video running at work today, figured I'd share this gem with you:
https://youtu.be/tj_3FFEpCeo?t=1955
:rollin
what even is a melody
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ran into Mike at the Van Halen show in Philly last night :tup
One of my stupid pet peeves, but there was no Van Halen show in Philly last night. :p
I mean you're technically correct, but why recognize that Camden exists as a city?
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I miss the spectrum so bad. Now I've got to go to Camden for everything, and boy oh boy, I just love going to camden...
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Just to let you know, the Metal Allegiance CD is already avaible in Brazil, in fact, since last week:
https://www.diehard.com.br/lojaweb/detalhes.asp?codprod=35346
And it's really true, cause mine already arrived home! :metal
IMO in just one listen, a very cool CD, nothing truly original, but the songs are very well written and catchy. And the different vocalists are very suitable by the song's styles. 3 interesting facts that I didn't know: Triangulum is an instrumental (very cool), MP co-wrote the lyrics for Wait Until Tomorrow and MP apparently recorded his drums at home (Casa de Portnoy - by the way a cool spanish/portuguese name :tup) and they sound really great (as his performances).
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In the fwiw category. He used the ToT kit to record this album. The drums sound huge.
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I always thought the Train Of Thought snare sounded really weak and far too ringy.
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Train Of Thought itself sounds terrible. Really thin and mechanical.
The songs on the album are awesome, but I never listen to the album, always Live At Budokan for those tunes.
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Train Of Thought itself sounds terrible. Really thin and mechanical.
The songs on the album are awesome, but I never listen to the album, always Live At Budokan for those tunes.
Aw man, I totally disagree. I love the Tot sound. The drums sound so thick and chunky. I love it. The Budokan sound is also incredible, but different.
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The ToT production seems to be a either you love it or hate it. Didn't MP say that they slaved on the production to get that sound?
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Another issue with the TOT drums is that the toms and octobans on the big half of the kit sound very squeaky with a lot of overtones. Overall the rest of the instruments sound great but the drums sound awful.
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Heard the Metal Allegiance album and i´m positevely surprised. A handful of really good songs, some good ones and not so much filler as one could expect.
Best Tracks: Let Darkness Fall (with Troy Sanders), Dying Song (with Phil Anselmo) and Wait Until Tomorrow (with Dug Pinnick and Jamey Jasta).
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Among all the other amazing albums coming out I almost forgot about this one. Still only mildly interested but will nonetheless check it out.
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Heard the Metal Allegiance a couple of times on spotify. All in all my not so great expectations are met. It's not bad but it's not something I see myself coming back to often. The playing is top notch, as expected, but at times it's pretty generic thrash metal. And the different singers don't work that well imo, the album doesn't feel cohesive, there's no real flow, more a bunch of songs randomly put together.
Will maybe get this when it's on sale but probably not for the full price.
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OMG, this is hilarious, Mike plays Raining Blood on a Hello Kitty toy kit! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aL2I--TCHM :lol
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OMG, this is hilarious, Mike plays Raining Blood on a Hello Kitty toy kit! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aL2I--TCHM :lol
:rollin
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OMG, this is hilarious, Mike plays Raining Blood on a Hello Kitty toy kit! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aL2I--TCHM :lol
I fucking loved Holy Wars
"Doesn't Hello Kitty make the double pedal?" :rollin
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haha that was great :lol
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OMG, this is hilarious, Mike plays Raining Blood on a Hello Kitty toy kit! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aL2I--TCHM :lol
:rollin
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OMG, this is hilarious, Mike plays Raining Blood on a Hello Kitty toy kit! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aL2I--TCHM :lol
thats so cool :lol :lol :lol
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ToT is one of their best albums. I'd like to see them do something like it again, except significantly cut down on the insturmental passages. Seriously, Honour Thy Father and Endless Sacrifice would have been absolutely perfect if it weren't for that wank factor.
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ToT is one of their best albums. I'd like to see them do something like it again, except significantly cut down on the insturmental passages. Seriously, Honour Thy Father and Endless Sacrifice would have been absolutely perfect if it weren't for that wank factor.
The instrumental passages are what makes ToT great.
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guys this is not the dt thread
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guys this is not the dt thread
:lol
Well every DT thread ends up about MP so...
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That was a hilarious video, I loved it. :rollin
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" I specifically requested the pokemon kit!" Hahaha
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guys this is not the dt thread
Be quiet dude
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https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/mike_portnoy_why_are_people_so_skeptical_about_any_band_im_associated_with.html
"In the last 5 years, I've done more than what most people do in their entire careers."
Sure, but quality over quantity. Neither of his post-DT bands has even come close to DT, IMHO.
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You say that like it's a bad thing.
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Sure, but quality over quantity. Neither of his post-DT bands has even come close to DT, IMHO.
That's not what he's trying to accomplish.
I think Winery Dogs are pretty good, but I'd love to see a full fledged Flying Colors tour.
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Sure, but quality over quantity. Neither of his post-DT bands has even come close to DT, IMHO.
That's not what he's trying to accomplish.
That's how it comes across anyway with that quote.
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That Oblivion song sounds so much like Black Country Communion.
It's too stop start for my liking too.
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I really love MP as a drummer (still until this day) and as a musician. I really like ALL his projects, some most of others, of course (damn, even AMob I like it a lot! :omg:), but I don't get the need for him, from time to time, to say things like this:
"After spending 25 years strictly dedicated to one band, I feel free now!"
And LTE, Transatlantic, Neal Morse, many tribute bands, AX7? They started to happen when???
"I don't care about technique. I have kind of been pigeonholed as a technical drummer since I was in DREAM THEATER for all those years, but it's actually very far from the truth. I am not a technical drummer at all. I'm more from the Keith Moon/Lars Ulrich school of 'hey, look at me!' I just get up there and bash. I have no interest in playing 'perfect.' To me, it's more about being an entertainer. Having a connection with the audience."
IMO this is SO obviously not true... I mean, there's a lot of super technical drummers out there nowadays, but I don't think MP (or anybody) sees himself closer to Keith Moon than to, let's say, Thomas Lang. I understand that today MP don't have interest to improve his technique, that he is very happy with his level of ability, but to say that he doesn't care... c'mon! (it's easy to say that you don't care about money when you are... rich!:-))
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I think what MP conveniently glosses over there is that most of his projects only get the attention they do because of his DT past. If he weren't the ex-DT drummer, most people wouldn't be critical, they'd just be apathetic.
Regarding the "technical drummer" thing, pretty sure he would have answered the question very differently 15 years ago. He knows that he hasn't kept up with the craft, so now he doesn't want to be compared.
I mean, a guy who has a video of himself counting out the odd meters of TDOE, is, or rather was, a technical drummer.
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c'mon! (it's easy to say that you don't care about money when you are... rich!:-))
I don't think DT made him 'rich'.
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c'mon! (it's easy to say that you don't care about money when you are... rich!:-))
I don't think DT made him 'rich'.
Well, it was a joke and a metaphor about his technique, referring to what I wrote shortly before...
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I think what MP conveniently glosses over there is that most of his projects only get the attention they do because of his DT past. If he weren't the ex-DT drummer, most people wouldn't be critical, they'd just be apathetic.
Regarding the "technical drummer" thing, pretty sure he would have answered the question very differently 15 years ago. He knows that he hasn't kept up with the craft, so now he doesn't want to be compared.
I mean, a guy who has a video of himself counting out the odd meters of TDOE, is, or rather was, a technical drummer.
Bingo.
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Clearly MP enjoys what he's doing, so I'm not sure why it matters.
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Clearly MP enjoys what he's doing, so I'm not sure why it matters.
As long as he's enjoying it and it's not just something he tells himself to not cry over the spilled milk that is DT (and his leaving).
Anyway, I truly do believe him when he says "It's all about the music, and I work as hard as I do strictly because of the music. It's not a money thing, it's not a career thing. It's simply to do with me being a music fan with a broad taste, wanting to do different styles and wanting to work with lots of different people." I think it would be hard to find a musician of that stature who is so genuinely and completely filled with passion (to the point of obsession in some cases) for everything that has to do with so many different genres of music. His love and understanding of music and what it's like to be a fan is unparalleled.
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Being in 6 bands and to sell lots of your equipment probably has a little something to do with money...
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"Everything I've done in the last five years is the stuff dreams are made of."
Adrenaline Mob is the stuff dreams are made of? :lol :lol :lol :lol
Honestly, this sounds like pure spin, and I can't say I blame him. What is he supposed to say, "Boo hoo, I wish I was still in Dream Theater." Which you know he does.
And I doubt anyone has an issue with him being in a bunch of part-time bands (the majority of which, calling them part-time bands could be considered an overstatement), as opposed to one full-time band and just a couple part-timers (which was his deal before he left DT). Sounds like he is setting up his own strawman there.
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I don't see it as a stretch. My best musician experiences usually involve playing with new people. Every new interactions adds to your musical character.
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I don't see it as a stretch. My best musician experiences usually involve playing with new people. Every new interactions adds to your musical character.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.
I don't really care for any of MP's recent musical endeavors, but there's no doubt that he's having a good time with it.
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I am always amazed at the excitement, and the conclusions, people draw from track listings.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.
That.
Mike's projects only get attention because he was in DT? Maybe, but he founded DT, he was part of making DT what it is. It's not like DT did him a favour out of the goodness of its heart, and made him famous. He worked for it, he made himself famous, cause he's a monster musician and a huge personality.
So he totally deserves to use that fame now for whatever he pleases. He earned it.
Oh and absolutely love most of his current projects. So I see it as a blessing, him leaving DT.
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Social Media's Greatest Drummer
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When MP is involved I can be almost certain it is quality. The man is featured on many albums I love since he left DT and I'm sure he enjoys it. It doesn't sound to me he is making music just for the money on basis of his DT-fame. He went in different directions than DT musically and for me it paid off. And recent live albums from the bands he has been in are kick ass too. Winery Dogs especially.
Even Amob has some quality to it imo, it was just dissapointing considering Portnoy and Allen. And since then he was involved in much more interesting projects, so it is not like Amob is a significant part of his post-DT career.
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I am always amazed at the excitement, and the conclusions, people draw from track listings.
WORD. I remember when the track list for the first Flying Colors album came out, and BOOM it wasn't eight minutes before most people had "Infinite Fire" as AWESOME, "Blue Ocean" as excellent, and everything else - especially the song with <GASP!> "Love" in the title - as crap, without even hearing a note. Considering that - for me, anyway - "Kayla" (one of the most beautiful songs ever, IMO) and "The Storm" blow both of them away (well, figuratively; I love that entire album and the only song I don't care for is "Shoulda Coulda Woulda") that theory is moot.
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I don't get how you can separate the "DT" from the man. Is Dio void because someone might listen to him because they first heard him in Sabbath - which, coincidentally, he went back to at least twice?
As for not having a "main band" per se, Cozy Powell made a career - and a damn good one - moving from project to project. With touring in the 70's and 80's being different - the age of the 18-month tour is pretty much over now - it wasn't really possible to have them all going at once, but there were at least two times in his career he had to beg off of things because of other projects cropping up (MSG was one of them). There are others, too. Brian Robertson. Phil Collins (and he DID do several of them contemporaneously).
I think a lot of this thread is picking nits and finding fault because we think there SHOULD be fault, not because there actually IS fault.
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I don't care about any of this crap.
I have always liked the vast majority of the music produced with Mike, and that still holds true.
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As for not having a "main band" per se, Cozy Powell made a career - (MSG was one of them).
Just piping in to say that Schenker's 2nd album MSG with Cozy Powell is a TAC Top 10! :metal
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I have always liked the vast majority of the music produced with Mike, and that still holds true.
Same here.
I think the issue some probably have here is that, most know that he is a hard worker (regardless of the actual quality of each project), but his need to always remind us of his resume is a bit oft-putting. It reminds me of Demi Moore and Tom Cruise in A Few Good Men when Cruise's character asks her's, "Why are you giving me your resume?" Modesty and humility is a wonderful thing, and Portnoy's resume speaks for itself, without him often needing to remind us what it is.
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Metal Sludge message board posted these box office numbers for various bands. I've included what they had of the Winery Dogs. I forget where the poster got them from but in the past I checked and it is a legit source. I posted the controversial low DT numbers from a few summers ago, also.
The Winery Dogs
Concert Hall
Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.
Oct. 14, 2015
$5,933
248 /
850
1 / 0
$30, $27
AEG Live
The Winery Dogs
State Theatre
St. Petersburg, Fla.
Oct. 15, 2015
$12,507
516 /
705
1 / 0
$30, $26.50
AEG Live
The Winery Dogs
Plaza Live
Orlando, Fla.
Oct. 17, 2015
$14,039
632 /
1,250
1 / 0
$35, $22
AEG Live
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I live two blocks from State Theatre, I didn't know you could cram 705 and people in there.
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MP Finally gets his Pokémon drumkit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbfHs4tph9k
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:lol The Pokemonster
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mike is a great drummer but he's never been a comedian.. :P :P
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As for not having a "main band" per se, Cozy Powell made a career - (MSG was one of them).
Just piping in to say that Schenker's 2nd album MSG with Cozy Powell is a TAC Top 10! :metal
Mine too. "But I Want More" slays me to this day, and that whole second album side is one of the best of that period of early '80's metal.
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I cannot explain how much of an impact that album made on me. I discovered UFO because of that, and that opened up a HUGE can of worms.
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mike is a great drummer but he's never been a comedian.. :P :P
My thoughts exactly.
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mike is a great drummer but he's never been a comedian.. :P :P
My thoughts exactly.
Yep. For all of his talents, being funny is not one of them, and few things are as painful to watch as someone who thinks he is funny, but isn't, trying to be funny.
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I find myself missing Portnoy in todays DT. Fully acknowledge that MM is a great drummer, there is just an intangible that Portnoy brought that I find missing. I am sure that is partly due to when I discovered DT and were heavily into them. Part drum style and sound, part his heavy promotion and voice, part his..for better or worse...over the top personality. Regardless, I still feel it.
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Portnoy was my favourite member in DT until he quit and turned into an arrogant cry baby.
I loved his drum sound and playing. Not so much his in-studio persona - mugging into the camera constantly...
But I accepted it .
It took them 3 goes to get a really good album production after he left and I wish mangini wasn't quite so robotic and played more for the song and not how many subdivisions he could do
between each limb.
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I'm not super nostalgic about MP. IMHO, DT had seen some rather sketchy albums before his departure. So, yes, I think we all agree that "10+ years back MP" was super awesome. But I don't think his continued presence in DT would have made things all that much better.Remember, his drumming had become very predictable, where people felt he was just doing one-takers, reeling off his standard rhythms and fill.
I think all parts of DT were/are struggling with artistic fatigue. I think MP's call for a hiatus was because he saw that.
Regarding MM, yeah. The other day he posted on FB that he was analyzing the timings and intensity of his hits in Pro Tools, making sure that he's perfectly consistent and exactly on time. Impressive, I guess.
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I find myself missing Portnoy in todays DT. Fully acknowledge that MM is a great drummer, there is just an intangible that Portnoy brought that I find missing. I am sure that is partly due to when I discovered DT and were heavily into them. Part drum style and sound, part his heavy promotion and voice, part his..for better or worse...over the top personality. Regardless, I still feel it.
I started to really miss MP DT when I first heard MM playing with DT. MP brought a lot of style and life to DT and it just became more apparent when he left the band.
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Regarding MM, yeah. The other day he posted on FB that he was analyzing the timings and intensity of his hits in Pro Tools, making sure that he's perfectly consistent and exactly on time. Impressive, I guess.
And yet some people still can't grasp the drum machine criticism. Like, this is literally aiming to be a drum machine. :lol
I'm not nostalgic about MP either, but his more spontaneous drum style was the balance DT needed to counteract the sterile prog side imo, and helped differentiate their music from the pack.
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I completely agree with you Blob
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mike is a great drummer but he's never been a comedian.. :P :P
My thoughts exactly.
Yep. For all of his talents, being funny is not one of them, and few things are as painful to watch as someone who thinks he is funny, but isn't, trying to be funny.
He used to be funny back in the day but he seems to just try too hard anymore.
The funniest member will always be James. Of course, being a Canadian he has an unfair advantage in the humor department.
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James then Petrucci. Then Mangini then Rudess...
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The funniest member will always be James. Of course, being a Canadian he has an unfair advantage in the humor department.
This is, well, funny.
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I miss Portnoy, he had a unique and spectacular style. And to be honest, I'm sure they would have done better music if he hasn't left.
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Disagree.
His last two albums with the band were not their best. I think he felt some weariness and wanted to do something fresh. Hence him deciding to take a break and quitting the band.
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I miss Portnoy, he had a unique and spectacular style. And to be honest, I'm sure they would have done better music if he hasn't left.
I'll take cheesy over the top James Nafaryus over tough guy Mike Narfaryus anyday, and you know he'd have fought to sing that role.
The natural progression from SC to BCSL to the next album with Portnoy still in the band would have been something cringeworthy to me. Not saying those albums are all bad, but there's plenty I don't like about them, and it's because of Portnoy and his Inspiration Corner bullshit.
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I miss Portnoy, he had a unique and spectacular style. And to be honest, I'm sure they would have done better music if he hasn't left.
It was certainly a crippling blow to DT, but after seeing WD on the Hot Streak tour I'm pretty happy with that half of it. My prediction was that the split would lead to better music from both camps. I was half right. All we need now is for JP to come around and sign on for an LTE project. That would pretty much cover all the bases for me.
Disagree.
His last two albums with the band were not their best. I think he felt some weariness and wanted to do something fresh. Hence him deciding to take a break and quitting the band.
I agree that he probably wouldn't have helped DT record better albums. His absence is more felt live.
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Disagree.
His last two albums with the band were not their best. I think he felt some weariness and wanted to do something fresh. Hence him deciding to take a break and quitting the band.
I agree that he probably wouldn't have helped DT record better albums. His absence is more felt live.
The first time I watched the PSMS Blu-ray and they opened with A Change of Seasons, the first thing I said out loud was, "This is why I miss Mike." You notice his presence and even though he's behind the kit, his presence looms larger than James' ever did. That could be Mike's extroverted nature or James' lack of frontman ingenuity or a combination of both.
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I miss Portnoy, he had a unique and spectacular style. And to be honest, I'm sure they would have done better music if he hasn't left.
I'll take cheesy over the top James Nafaryus over tough guy Mike Narfaryus anyday, and you know he'd have fought to sing that role.
The natural progression from SC to BCSL to the next album with Portnoy still in the band would have been something cringeworthy to me. Not saying those albums are all bad, but there's plenty I don't like about them, and it's because of Portnoy and his Inspiration Corner bullshit.
You're probably correct. But while the post-MP stuff is fresher, it's also lifeless to me. Portnoy's presence wouldn't have made for better music, but his absence didn't, either.
And I'm not sure the "inspiration corner" part is fair. The best song on DT was a fucking Rush song. :lol
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I've seen them live with MP and post MP.
With Portnoy on the BC&SL tour, the only person that looked like they were having a good time was Portnoy. Seeing them on the Dramatic tour was night and day. They looked united as a band, and I enjoyed the concert significantly more.
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I've seen them live with MP and post MP.
With Portnoy on the BC&SL tour, the only person that looked like they were having a good time was Portnoy. Seeing them on the Dramatic tour was night and day. They looked united as a band, and I enjoyed the concert significantly more.
Speaks volumes. :biggrin:
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A fun-filled Portnoy beats 5 united other guys in terms of excitement. Not even close. I saw the ADToE tour 5 times, for some reason (seriously, quite the mystery) and one show was excellent. The other four might as well have been watching the DVD version in my living room. I fully get that the other guys are happier with out him, and I don't blame them, but all of them combined lack his energy and excitement from night to night.
Suffice it to say, I miss MP tremendously as a member of DT. I'm equally glad that he's out doing his thing, which is many ways is better.
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I miss Portnoy, he had a unique and spectacular style. And to be honest, I'm sure they would have done better music if he hasn't left.
I'll take cheesy over the top James Nafaryus over tough guy Mike Narfaryus anyday, and you know he'd have fought to sing that role.
The natural progression from SC to BCSL to the next album with Portnoy still in the band would have been something cringeworthy to me. Not saying those albums are all bad, but there's plenty I don't like about them, and it's because of Portnoy and his Inspiration Corner bullshit.
You're probably correct. But while the post-MP stuff is fresher, it's also lifeless to me. Portnoy's presence wouldn't have made for better music, but his absence didn't, either.
And I'm not sure the "inspiration corner" part is fair. The best song on DT was a fucking Rush song. :lol
While I like The Looking Glass, it certainly isn't the best song on that album. Similar riffs, and lyrical subject matter don't make it a Rush song either. Obviously Rush is influential to them, but it's hardly a rip off.
We may not have gotten Images and Words Part 2, but we would have gotten more roars, and "death metal" crap. Hey, I can tolerate some death growls here and there, but for starters, Mike's attempt in the ANTR demo clip did not sound good, and his tough guy shouting is even worse. I liked his backing vocals on previous albums, but when he takes lead it is NOT WELL. They lost something both good and bad when Portnoy left, but at least the bad is gone, right?
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I miss Portnoy, he had a unique and spectacular style. And to be honest, I'm sure they would have done better music if he hasn't left.
I'll take cheesy over the top James Nafaryus over tough guy Mike Narfaryus anyday, and you know he'd have fought to sing that role.
The natural progression from SC to BCSL to the next album with Portnoy still in the band would have been something cringeworthy to me. Not saying those albums are all bad, but there's plenty I don't like about them, and it's because of Portnoy and his Inspiration Corner bullshit.
You're probably correct. But while the post-MP stuff is fresher, it's also lifeless to me. Portnoy's presence wouldn't have made for better music, but his absence didn't, either.
And I'm not sure the "inspiration corner" part is fair. The best song on DT was a fucking Rush song. :lol
While I like The Looking Glass, it certainly isn't the best song on that album. Similar riffs, and lyrical subject matter don't make it a Rush song either. Obviously Rush is influential to them, but it's hardly a rip off.
Nah. You'd have to throw in guitar tone, instrumentation, vocal melodies, backing vocals, and song structure for it to be a Rush song. :lol Seriously, you put that between Losing It and Countdown and it's a perfect fit. I'm not bagging on them, it's a very good song in the style of one of their biggest influences, I applaud them for it, but it's no less an homage than anything MP was doing.
Oh, and 1+1-1=1. Losing an equal amount of good and bad still makes it, well, you fill in the blank.
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Well, the whole "homage" part of DT was always just as much JP as it was Portnoy.
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This is true. They had the controlling interest in what the band put out for the most part.
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It was certainly a crippling blow to DT, but after seeing WD on the Hot Streak tour I'm pretty happy with that half of it. My prediction was that the split would lead to better music from both camps. I was half right.
I think, for me, it was fully right. I am one of the few that loved BCSL, but post MP DT has been better IMO than the few albums before MP left.... and MP's work in WD is really really awesome and I had a blast seeing them on that same tour.
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It was certainly a crippling blow to DT, but after seeing WD on the Hot Streak tour I'm pretty happy with that half of it. My prediction was that the split would lead to better music from both camps. I was half right.
I think, for me, it was fully right. I am one of the few that loved BCSL, but post MP DT has been better IMO than the few albums before MP left.... and MP's work in WD is really really awesome and I had a blast seeing them on that same tour.
I'm alright with that as an assessment. I'm always far more concerned with the live aspect than the studio, so I don't pay much attention to albums. I honestly lump everything after ToT into one big "everything else" category. From my perspective you've got a five way tie for 13th down there, so my opinion of the pre and post albums is pretty much meaningless. It's the live side that's heartbreaking to me.
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Sadly the live side took a hit with this current tour, but I saw the ADTOE tour twice and DT12 three times and those were a blast for me.
While I certainly miss the rotating setlists, what they did with alternating setlists on the ADTOE tour was really a perfectly fine way to keep the fan base happy IMO.
I also think the added visuals from the DT12 tour (that huge screen was awesome) and TA tours were nice additions to the live show. But they definitely are missing that MP/fan interactions that added to the live experience.
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That's what happens when you have an overly bombastic member that decides to quit. You can only pick up so much of what they left.
It's the music I'm there for in all reality. Hence why I close my eyes at times to soak it in.
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I think that MP had a great live presence and really took DT live to another level. I won't lie, I was intrigued to see how DT was going to turn out post-MP and I really feel like they are missing something.
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I feel the opposite. I have seen them live every tour (multiple times for the first two tours), and I thought they were fantastic live, every single time. Yeah, there is a different atmosphere. But I didn't feel they were missing a thing. Only different.
In studio, the drum mix unfortunately has made the drums feel lacking, as has been discussed ad nauseum. So even though they haven't lost a step in the drumming department at all, it can feel that way from listening to the albums because that punch is often missing.
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MP was the heart and soul of Dream Theater.
Without him, they lose a hell of a lot.
I have been a fan since WDADU, but I am not longer interested in anything new from them.
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I am a big fan of all three Mangini records, although I would concede that Portnoy is the more enjoyable and fun drummer to listen to. Mangini is a beast from a technical standpoint, but his playing is a bit too clinical. But, despite that, the songwriting since he's been in the band has been mostly great.
I think where DT misses Portnoy the most is promotion. Portnoy was great at giving updates online and getting the fans excited about a new album, tour, etc. It seems like no one in the band right now gives a rip about having an online presence to get the fans excited. Token updates on FB that are likely done by Roadrunner aren't even close to the same thing. Even if Portnoy overstated things, he at least got you excited that, hey, maybe the album was gonna be awesome.
Live, I didn't notice a difference when I saw them twice on the DT12 tour. I am seeing them in 16 days here in St. Louis, so we'll see how that goes.
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I miss the spontaneity he brought, even if it didn't actually show up. When he was there you never really knew what you were going to get. It might be the exact same show as the night before. It might not. And it's not just the rotating setlists. How many various ways have they played PMU? Maybe the last song burn-out ending evolves into Damage Inc. Maybe JP has a talk-box onstage that night because they were going to play HOme later and decides to play with it elsewhere. During the big ending for PMU on his last tour, opening for Maiden, MP slipped in the drum intro to Where Eagles Dare. If I see them in a few weeks, the big JP solo in ANB will be exactly the same as it was the other times I saw it. Not one measure longer. With everything synched to the click I doubt it's even possible anymore. It feels more like going to see a movie than a rock concert. I know plenty of people prefer it this way, but to me it's a huge loss. They were really good at making things interesting, and that's one of the things MP took with him.
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MP is like that chick that the sex is everything you dream of but out of the bed it's nothing but trouble.
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A fun-filled Portnoy beats 5 united other guys in terms of excitement. Not even close. I saw the ADToE tour 5 times, for some reason (seriously, quite the mystery) and one show was excellent. The other four might as well have been watching the DVD version in my living room. I fully get that the other guys are happier with out him, and I don't blame them, but all of them combined lack his energy and excitement from night to night.
Suffice it to say, I miss MP tremendously as a member of DT. I'm equally glad that he's out doing his thing, which is many ways is better.
I saw them on the DT12 tour, and they played flawlessly, but it was the most dull show I've been to. Spent the entire show posting on DTF, actually. :lol Like you said, basically like watching a DVD, hearing the songs performed exactly like the CD, looked like they were going through the motions really. I'm glad the band is happier with the situation, but I'm with you as far as the live shows go with/without MP.
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During the BCASL tour in Montreal, electricity power went down. For about 15 minutes, Portnoy alone stayed on stage, playing as hard as he could his drums, driving the amazed crowd up on their feet doing a drum solo and rock classic covers. A unique, fun, entertaining person.
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During the BCASL tour in Montreal, electricity power went down. For about 15 minutes, Portnoy alone stayed on stage, playing as hard as he could his drums, driving the amazed crowd up on their feet doing a drum solo and rock classic covers. A unique, fun, entertaining person.
:metal :metal that is awesome
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For all his faults, that is one thing you've got to give Portnoy; he genuinely wants fans to come to the shows and have a great time. Being such a big music fan, he clearly takes the "this is what I would want if I were a fan" attitude. You cannot fault him for that.
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Who's to say Mangini won't do something like that too?
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Who's to say Mangini won't do something like that too?
Well if the electricity went out, then he wouldn't have a click track. :biggrin:
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During the BCASL tour in Montreal, electricity power went down. For about 15 minutes, Portnoy alone stayed on stage, playing as hard as he could his drums, driving the amazed crowd up on their feet doing a drum solo and rock classic covers. A unique, fun, entertaining person.
Is there a recording of this anywhere?
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Who's to say Mangini won't do something like that too?
Well if the electricity went out, then he wouldn't have a click track. :biggrin:
Ouch.
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Easy fellas. :lol. We all know the click track is for the damn screen. That's why they need to stop the videos lining up with the song. It would make MM sound organic.
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Easy fellas. :lol. We all know the click track is for the damn screen. That's why they need to stop the videos lining up with the song. It would make MM sound organic.
Oh I know, just making an easy joke.
I'm actually a big Mangini fan (more as a drummer though, and not quite as much as DT's drummer).
Also, the click is also for the heavy amount of backing tracks, and because JP has even said they prefer even tempos, rather than speeding up/slowing down at times throughout the night.
I'm fairly confident that even if they ditched all of the screens and backing tracks, they'd keep the click.
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I miss the ancillary things he did while in DT plus the open and direct communication with the fans. Musically, I felt that SC and BC&SL were not on par with their predecessors.
The last three DT albums could sit at the top right below the DT album Mt Rushmore (I&W, Awake, Scenes, & Six Degrees) so in that sense, it's not a deal breaker that he's gone. Plus, he quit the band and truthfully he overplayed his hand and lost. I'd love to see him back just for his charisma alone, but not at the expense of the current dynamic which really seems to be working like never before.
At the end of the day, Mike played on my favorite DT albums and A Change of Seasons is probably my favorite DT song but he also quit my favorite band but his post-DT output (especially with Neal) has been stellar (A-Mob aside) so in that sense, it's a win/win.
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Easy fellas. :lol. We all know the click track is for the damn screen. That's why they need to stop the videos lining up with the song. It would make MM sound organic.
Oh I know, just making an easy joke.
I'm actually a big Mangini fan (more as a drummer though, and not quite as much as DT's drummer).
Also, the click is also for the heavy amount of backing tracks, and because JP has even said they prefer even tempos, rather than speeding up/slowing down at times throughout the night.
I'm fairly confident that even if they ditched all of the screens and backing tracks, they'd keep the click.
When I saw him with Extreme, he was a groove machine. There was swing in his playing and powerful. That's what a lot of us are missing with MP.
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I am a big fan of all three Mangini records, although I would concede that Portnoy is the more enjoyable and fun drummer to listen to. Mangini is a beast from a technical standpoint, but his playing is a bit too clinical. But, despite that, the songwriting since he's been in the band has been mostly great.
I think where DT misses Portnoy the most is promotion. Portnoy was great at giving updates online and getting the fans excited about a new album, tour, etc. It seems like no one in the band right now gives a rip about having an online presence to get the fans excited. Token updates on FB that are likely done by Roadrunner aren't even close to the same thing. Even if Portnoy overstated things, he at least got you excited that, hey, maybe the album was gonna be awesome.
Live, I didn't notice a difference when I saw them twice on the DT12 tour. I am seeing them in 16 days here in St. Louis, so we'll see how that goes.
I certainly prefer MM's playing more because of his versatility and his passion. While MP also carries that passion, The last few albums with DT his drumming became more predictable. It was a bit of a letdown. As great of a drummer as he is, he stopped impressing me with that and what is missed more is his passion for the band itself, like the online presence. However, lately his online presence has showed us how sensitive he is to a little criticism. That has became more apparent since he left the band which doesn't surprise me the slightest.
That letdown was alleviated when MM joined. MM brought a whole new side to the drumming aspect of DT. Surely his presence on the album seems a bit "robotic" as some people call it, but I've seen him live enough times to realize how much passion he puts into what his playing. Some people don't like overly technical playing while other people do. Neither one is "right" or "wrong". It's a matter of taste and curiosity.
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I always thought MP was the perfect blend of technical and organic. I wouldn't have change the ratio either direction.
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I don't think that's an incorrect statement. I just feel like his technical side became predictable with the last few albums. I wasn't wow'd anymore by seeing what else he could do behind the drumkit. I don't think it caused me like the music any less. There are so many elements to a Dream Theater song that there's always something that grabs you, even if one of them is lacking.
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I always thought MP was the perfect blend of technical and organic. I wouldn't have change the ratio either direction.
This is so right.
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I agree with you Prog that the wow was gone towards the end with MP but with MM I didn't really see any wow to begin with. Before people lose their shit let me just say he is a mega talented drummer but he reminds me a bit of Rusty Cooley; a technical savage but that's about it.
I'm going to check out his extreme videos and see if that changes my mind.
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I agree with you Prog that the wow was gone towards the end with MP but with MM I didn't really see any wow to begin with. Before people lose their shit let me just say he is a mega talented drummer but he reminds me a bit of Rusty Cooley; a technical savage but that's about it.
I'm going to check out his extreme videos and see if that changes my mind.
https://youtu.be/7a-6lma_6AY
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I went to my Dad's house one time and he was listening to a new Neal Morse album but I didn't know it at the time.
I knew it must have been having not heard a crotchet from it because I instantly recognised MP's drumming style.
That can be both a good and bad thing.
+ having a recognisable style
- being able to identify a drummer from the fills and tricks he does in every song.
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*sigh* You know you spend too much time in front of a computer when you see the + and click it out of habit, expecting a list to appear below it.
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Really ? i'm not familiar with that at all ??
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Who's to say Mangini won't do something like that too?
Well if the electricity went out, then he wouldn't have a click track. :biggrin:
Good one!
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For those who follow NHL hockey, let me make an example that to me is a bit like Portnoy's story. Montreal's P.K. Subban was outspoken, flashy, very popular, totally dedicated to his team but also his own enterprise (clothing, advertising), the spotlights were often on him. He surely made some of his teamates crazy, he never slowed down, probably close to take ritalin, making some teamates jalous. Subban probably was annoying the management with all his outside business and schedule being heavy but he was one of the few players giving always his 100%.
So, some of that is like Portnoy who had multiple things outside DT that certainly bothered the other guys and I don't think he was really getting along very well with one or two of them.
Portnoy had a lot of qualities but not necessarely fun to be around since the focus on DT was different than his bandmates.
I don't know if you get my drift, Subban's personality and MP's are wild. Sometimes you have got to go with a change and both stories have something in common.
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During the BCASL tour in Montreal, electricity power went down. For about 15 minutes, Portnoy alone stayed on stage, playing as hard as he could his drums, driving the amazed crowd up on their feet doing a drum solo and rock classic covers. A unique, fun, entertaining person.
Is there a recording of this anywhere?
I don't know, maybe on Youtube. I was there, close to the stage. I remember reading something about that moment. Let me have a look and I will post it if I find it.
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I agree with you Prog that the wow was gone towards the end with MP but with MM I didn't really see any wow to begin with. Before people lose their shit let me just say he is a mega talented drummer but he reminds me a bit of Rusty Cooley; a technical savage but that's about it.
I'm going to check out his extreme videos and see if that changes my mind.
I agree, he blew me the first time I saw him because he is very technical and amazingly fast but he is kind of stiff behind his skins. I have a perception of drummers à la Keith Moon. Great and spectacular.
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I agree with you Prog that the wow was gone towards the end with MP but with MM I didn't really see any wow to begin with. Before people lose their shit let me just say he is a mega talented drummer but he reminds me a bit of Rusty Cooley; a technical savage but that's about it.
I'm going to check out his extreme videos and see if that changes my mind.
I agree, he blew me the first time I saw him because he is very technical and amazingly fast but he is kind of stiff behind his skins. I have a perception of drummers à la Keith Moon. Great and spectacular.
.....I would suggest re-reading the first half of your post and editing it a bit.
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During the BCASL tour in Montreal, electricity power went down. For about 15 minutes, Portnoy alone stayed on stage, playing as hard as he could his drums, driving the amazed crowd up on their feet doing a drum solo and rock classic covers. A unique, fun, entertaining person.
Is there a recording of this anywhere?
I don't know, maybe on Youtube. I was there, close to the stage. I remember reading something about that moment. Let me have a look and I will post it if I find it.
https://youtu.be/7vV7XfjP04U
There you go
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During the BCASL tour in Montreal, electricity power went down. For about 15 minutes, Portnoy alone stayed on stage, playing as hard as he could his drums, driving the amazed crowd up on their feet doing a drum solo and rock classic covers. A unique, fun, entertaining person.
Is there a recording of this anywhere?
I don't know, maybe on Youtube. I was there, close to the stage. I remember reading something about that moment. Let me have a look and I will post it if I find it.
https://youtu.be/7vV7XfjP04U
There you go
:metal that's awesome
.....I would suggest re-reading the first half of your post and editing it a bit.
:lol
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For those who follow NHL hockey, let me make an example that to me is a bit like Portnoy's story. Montreal's P.K. Subban was outspoken, flashy, very popular, totally dedicated to his team but also his own enterprise (clothing, advertising), the spotlights were often on him. He surely made some of his teamates crazy, he never slowed down, probably close to take ritalin, making some teamates jalous. Subban probably was annoying the management with all his outside business and schedule being heavy but he was one of the few players giving always his 100%.
Subban did a good amount of charity work too if I recall correctly, no? I don't know what Montreal was doing trading him, especially when a few years back they agreed to a huge contract (over $9 million a year?) and he wasn't slacking in the stats department, no? Anyway, yeah, I can see the comparisons between Subban and Portnoy. You can't say they didn't produce results that the fans are looking for, even if their personalities irks various people.
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I agree with you Prog that the wow was gone towards the end with MP but with MM I didn't really see any wow to begin with. Before people lose their shit let me just say he is a mega talented drummer but he reminds me a bit of Rusty Cooley; a technical savage but that's about it.
I'm going to check out his extreme videos and see if that changes my mind.
I agree, he blew me the first time I saw him because he is very technical and amazingly fast but he is kind of stiff behind his skins. I have a perception of drummers à la Keith Moon. Great and spectacular.
.....I would suggest re-reading the first half of your post and editing it a bit.
Please don't.
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MP really does care about his fans
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https://youtu.be/7vV7XfjP04U
Wow. I mean, that video really drives home the point. James heads immediately backstage after just a few seconds, and the other guys quickly follow suit. MP is the only one who sticks around to entertain the fans. I mean, not that James could have done much, but it looked almost demonstratively the way he left the stage the moment his job was over.
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I agree with you Prog that the wow was gone towards the end with MP but with MM I didn't really see any wow to begin with. Before people lose their shit let me just say he is a mega talented drummer but he reminds me a bit of Rusty Cooley; a technical savage but that's about it.
I'm going to check out his extreme videos and see if that changes my mind.
I agree, he blew me the first time I saw him because he is very technical and amazingly fast but he is kind of stiff behind his skins. I have a perception of drummers à la Keith Moon. Great and spectacular.
.....I would suggest re-reading the first half of your post and editing it a bit.
Please don't.
That would certainly bring the wow factor back for me. :zydarscouch:
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https://youtu.be/7vV7XfjP04U
Wow. I mean, that video really drives home the point. James heads immediately backstage after just a few seconds, and the other guys quickly follow suit. MP is the only one who sticks around to entertain the fans. I mean, not that James could have done much, but it looked almost demonstratively the way he left the stage the moment his job was over.
Those holes aren't going to dig themselves.
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That's one of those things you miss about MP. He'll always try to find some way to make the best of a bad situation. Whether he sings for James who hasn't arrived on stage or he'll take a moment like that one in the video and give the fans something to cheer or laugh about.
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During the BCASL tour in Montreal, electricity power went down. For about 15 minutes, Portnoy alone stayed on stage, playing as hard as he could his drums, driving the amazed crowd up on their feet doing a drum solo and rock classic covers. A unique, fun, entertaining person.
Is there a recording of this anywhere?
I don't know, maybe on Youtube. I was there, close to the stage. I remember reading something about that moment. Let me have a look and I will post it if I find it.
https://youtu.be/7vV7XfjP04U
There you go
That was awesome.
Also, while I'm not a huge fan of most of the tracks in that set, that was one of the best setlists MP ever put together. The pacing, with each song a little fast than the previous one, was genius. It built up the energy perfectly.
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I doubt they all went back there to relax on the couch. They were probably investigating the problem.
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Eh, that's not what you do usually as a musician, as it is entirely outside of your control. You may inquire quickly about the status of things, but venue PA is not something you have anything to do with.
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And the musicians getting involved like that end up being a nuisance. I imagine the sound guys were relieved that MP stayed on the kit during the outage.
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I agree with you Prog that the wow was gone towards the end with MP but with MM I didn't really see any wow to begin with. Before people lose their shit let me just say he is a mega talented drummer but he reminds me a bit of Rusty Cooley; a technical savage but that's about it.
I'm going to check out his extreme videos and see if that changes my mind.
I agree, he blew me the first time I saw him because he is very technical and amazingly fast but he is kind of stiff behind his skins. I have a perception of drummers à la Keith Moon. Great and spectacular.
.....I would suggest re-reading the first half of your post and editing it a bit.
I have no idea what you are talking about
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For those who follow NHL hockey, let me make an example that to me is a bit like Portnoy's story. Montreal's P.K. Subban was outspoken, flashy, very popular, totally dedicated to his team but also his own enterprise (clothing, advertising), the spotlights were often on him. He surely made some of his teamates crazy, he never slowed down, probably close to take ritalin, making some teamates jalous. Subban probably was annoying the management with all his outside business and schedule being heavy but he was one of the few players giving always his 100%.
Subban did a good amount of charity work too if I recall correctly, no? I don't know what Montreal was doing trading him, especially when a few years back theFy agreed to a huge contract (over $9 million a year?) and he wasn't slacking in the stats department, no? Anyway, yeah, I can see the comparisons between Subban and Portnoy. You can't say they didn't produce results that the fans are looking for, even if their personalities irks various people.
All you are saying is true. And Subban is giving one million each year to the Montreal children hospital. He is giving a lot to others and it kind of put the organization in the shadow. He was taking a lot of space in and out the hockey team. Montreal made a very good trade. They will probably be better now. In 4-5 years, maybe not because Subban is younger. But I really liked him. His ego is huge but I did not care because he was showing up every single game. That is something just a few are doing.
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I agree with you Prog that the wow was gone towards the end with MP but with MM I didn't really see any wow to begin with. Before people lose their shit let me just say he is a mega talented drummer but he reminds me a bit of Rusty Cooley; a technical savage but that's about it.
I'm going to check out his extreme videos and see if that changes my mind.
I agree, he blew me the first time I saw him because he is very technical and amazingly fast but he is kind of stiff behind his skins. I have a perception of drummers à la Keith Moon. Great and spectacular.
.....I would suggest re-reading the first half of your post and editing it a bit.
By stiff I meant he does not show a lot of emotions.
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I agree with you Prog that the wow was gone towards the end with MP but with MM I didn't really see any wow to begin with. Before people lose their shit let me just say he is a mega talented drummer but he reminds me a bit of Rusty Cooley; a technical savage but that's about it.
I'm going to check out his extreme videos and see if that changes my mind.
I agree, he blew me the first time I saw him because he is very technical and amazingly fast but he is kind of stiff behind his skins. I have a perception of drummers à la Keith Moon. Great and spectacular.
.....I would suggest re-reading the first half of your post and editing it a bit.
By stiff I meant he does not show a lot of emotions.
I meant you should probably add the word "away" after "blew me".
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During the BCASL tour in Montreal, electricity power went down. For about 15 minutes, Portnoy alone stayed on stage, playing as hard as he could his drums, driving the amazed crowd up on their feet doing a drum solo and rock classic covers. A unique, fun, entertaining person.
Is there a recording of this anywhere?
I don't know, maybe on Youtube. I was there, close to the stage. I remember reading something about that moment. Let me have a look and I will post it if I find it.
https://youtu.be/7vV7XfjP04U
There you go
That was awesome.
Also, while I'm not a huge fan of most of the tracks in that set, that was one of the best setlists MP ever put together. The pacing, with each song a little fast than the previous one, was genius. It built up the energy perfectly.
I remember that show very well. They were opening for Iron Maiden but I was there for the 40 minutes of DT, stage right very close to JP. I enjoyed it a lot, it was worth it.
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I agree with you Prog that the wow was gone towards the end with MP but with MM I didn't really see any wow to begin with. Before people lose their shit let me just say he is a mega talented drummer but he reminds me a bit of Rusty Cooley; a technical savage but that's about it.
I'm going to check out his extreme videos and see if that changes my mind.
I agree, he blew me the first time I saw him because he is very technical and amazingly fast but he is kind of stiff behind his skins. I have a perception of drummers à la Keith Moon. Great and spectacular.
.....I would suggest re-reading the first half of your post and editing it a bit.
By stiff I meant he does not show a lot of emotions.
I meant you should probably add the word "away" after "blew me".
Well I guess it made you laugh. I'm french, my english is pretty good but I do forget to be more precise. But thank you, I have learn it.
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Way to deflate a joke. :lol
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https://youtu.be/7vV7XfjP04U
Wow. I mean, that video really drives home the point. James heads immediately backstage after just a few seconds, and the other guys quickly follow suit. MP is the only one who sticks around to entertain the fans. I mean, not that James could have done much, but it looked almost demonstratively the way he left the stage the moment his job was over.
In all fairness, MP was literally the only one that could make any noise. What did you think the other guys would do? JP could stand there strumming his guitar :lol James could speak to the crowd through his non-functioning mic :lol
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Well, you're talking to someone who has always thought that James is lacking in the frontman department. You're right, he couldn't *talk* to the audience. But a simple "now the left half of the audience raise their arms ... now the right half!" would have easily bridged the time as well. In fact, it would have been more effective than MP's drumming, which nobody really could hear either.
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Well, you're talking to someone who has always thought that James is lacking in the frontman department. You're right, he couldn't *talk* to the audience. But a simple "now the left half of the audience raise their arms ... now the right half!" would have easily bridged the time as well. In fact, it would have been more effective than MP's drumming, which nobody really could hear either.
Yeah, true. Just seems anti-James' personality to do something like that. But, I guess that's your point, right?
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Iron Maiden lost power when I saw them. Bruce Dickinson brought out a soccer ball and got the rest of the band involved with kicking it around to keep the crowd entertained. The singer most certainly could do something without power.
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I can see how that must have bugged MP to no end. He is such a huge music fan himself, and adores all these bands with super strong frontmen. I think his theatrics behind the drumkit may well have been because he felt he needed to compensate.
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That Iron Maiden show was my introduction to DT. Didn't know much about them at all before and it was probably the only show where I spent most of the time watching the drummer.
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That Iron Maiden show was my introduction to DT. Didn't know much about them at all before and it was probably the only show where I spent most of the time watching the drummer.
My introduction to DT was also opening for Iron Maiden...........in 1992. ;D
But I also just stared in amazement at the drummer.
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My introduction to Iron Maiden was through DT forums. I thought the drummer was pretty good.
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My introduction to Iron Maiden was through DT forums. I thought the drummer was pretty good.
Love Nicko!
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My introduction to Iron Maiden was through DT forums. I thought the drummer was pretty good.
(https://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/616/605/697.jpg)
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Nicko is one of those " you're a millionaire - why not fix your face " type people :lol
Same with Lars Ulrich's hairline.
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Why would Nicko fix Lars' hairline? ???
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Nicko is one of those " you're a millionaire - why not fix your face " type people :lol
Same with Lars Ulrich's hairline.
This is metal, not hollywood
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Kirk and James have had work done... :p
lars needs it the most.
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Kirk and James have had work done... :p
lars needs it the most.
Something wrong with balding?
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Kotowboy, you are messing with the wrong bald guy. Amirite Adami?!
My lack of hair isn't the worst thing about me. :lol
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Kotowboy, you are messing with the wrong bald guy. Amirite Adami?!
My lack of hair isn't the worst thing about me. :lol
You're beautiful King.
All I know, and I'm sorry for making this too personal, is that I started balding at 18 (I used to have long awesome hair) and had like no self-esteem because of it for years. The idea that bald = bad is something that, to me, is no different than fat shaming or thin shaming or anything like that. It's just something society doesn't seem to care about yet, despite a huge number of super rich influential bald guys in the world.
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Kirk and James have had work done... :p
lars needs it the most.
Something wrong with balding?
Nope but Lars hair is really untidy. he doesn't even keep it trim.
He went completely bald a year or two ago and it just looked so much better.
It's when people have a few tufts on top and don't just shave it all off that confuses me.
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I hope people don't live under the illusion that DT's hair, barring JM and JR, is all natural, right?
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I hope people don't live under the illusion that DT's hair, barring JM and JR, is all natural, right?
They've obviously all coloured it but I don't know if Petrucci or LaBrie have had restorative work done.
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My lack of hair isn't the worst thing about me. :lol
The problem is more the excessive hair, then?
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Kotowboy, you are messing with the wrong bald guy. Amirite Adami?!
My lack of hair isn't the worst thing about me. :lol
Nope, that would be your fandom of Boston-area sports teams. :biggrin:
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Kotowboy, you are messing with the wrong bald guy. Amirite Adami?!
My lack of hair isn't the worst thing about me. :lol
Nope, that would be your fandom of Boston-area sports teams. :biggrin:
(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/1d61ab9456b1823dfe83f189735303c1e5fc5c9b0fa5332bb022e2f1466d119c_zpsxjnwenne.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/1d61ab9456b1823dfe83f189735303c1e5fc5c9b0fa5332bb022e2f1466d119c_zpsxjnwenne.jpg.html)
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(https://i.imgur.com/Dl4g2jk.gif)
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I'm not gonna fight that gift from a perfect movie. :lol
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(https://s2.quickmeme.com/img/d1/d165129c077b7333cc03b5ecfffda74f1a5607232f9ab6652348d76111f55a9f.jpg)
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Kirk and James have had work done... :p
lars needs it the most.
SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!
What work has James had done? I can't accept that the coolest guy in metal has had a tummy tuck or a chin reduction.
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Kotowboy, you are messing with the wrong bald guy. Amirite Adami?!
My lack of hair isn't the worst thing about me. :lol
You're beautiful King.
All I know, and I'm sorry for making this too personal, is that I started balding at 18 (I used to have long awesome hair) and had like no self-esteem because of it for years. The idea that bald = bad is something that, to me, is no different than fat shaming or thin shaming or anything like that. It's just something society doesn't seem to care about yet, despite a huge number of super rich influential bald guys in the world.
Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, Vin Diesel, and Rob Halford. Nuff said.
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For me, though I was shocked and saddened when the news broke that Portnoy left, overall I think it's worked out for the best. On the DT side I certainly concede that they're not as much fun as a live band now (both onstage energy and the setlists), but I think that the Mangini albums have been stronger than the last few Portnoy albums and the rest of the band just seems a little more relaxed/content. Meanwhile I have absolutely loved a lot of what MP has released separately since then (newest Transatlantic, both Flying Colors, both Winery Dogs), so the end result is a lot more great music than I probably would have gotten if everyone stayed the course.
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My problem is that "content" sometimes doesn't make for good music. Does anyone think the "content" Rolling Stones is better than the Stones that is a rollicking, shambolic mess? Does anyone think that the "content" Marillion is as good as the "are you SURE they're all friends and all their marriages are in great shape?" Marillion?
Sometimes having to sell the other guys that an idea is good enough is necessary to show that, yeah, the idea is good enough. I regularly ask myself what Lennon would have said if McCartney pitched "Say Say Say" to the Beatles. Or "Ebony and Ivory"? We already know what Keef thinks of "Primitive Cool".
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Kirk and James have had work done... :p
lars needs it the most.
SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!
What work has James had done? I can't accept that the coolest guy in metal has had a tummy tuck or a chin reduction.
He's had hair put on top :P Kirk clearly has and James is either thinning extremely slowly in one place or he's had hair put in
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Kirk and James have had work done... :p
lars needs it the most.
SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!
What work has James had done? I can't accept that the coolest guy in metal has had a tummy tuck or a chin reduction.
He's had hair put on top :P Kirk clearly has and James is either thinning extremely slowly in one place or he's had hair put in
Eh, I doubt James had. It's possible some people just have hair.
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He may have just been joking around but in one tour video - he sees his thinning hair on the massive screen and chuckles and says " I gotta get that fixed..."