DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
General => Movies and TV => Topic started by: TioJorge on May 05, 2014, 02:14:31 PM
-
I thought I'd create a topic for one of the most riveting and interesting psychological murder mysteries to date. I'll say as a disclaimer, the search system has always been absolutely horrible (and/or I'm an invalid) and I couldn't find any Hannibal topics despite that I'm quite certain we have one. Nonetheless, apologies if there is one and please either delete or combine these, my friendly neighborhood MODs.
I love the series and have been immensely interested in the lore of the books and show since the original Hannibal with Hopkins came out. Since then I've read Red Dragon and most of Hannibal, but have seen all the on-screen adaptations. Obviously this will predominately be for discussion on the newest adaptation, the Hannibal television series. It's without a doubt my most revered and loved version of both the incarnations of Hannibal and Will; it captures the tone and absolute foreboding throughout its macabre way of storytelling. It's a true shame that it isn't the hit that it could be, and quite frankly it stuns me that it isn't considering that it has many of the attributes of today's big TV hits.
Hopefully people will catch on and this show will go on to do great things for both the series itself and television story-telling. There hasn't been a show on that is quite like this one. It takes many cues from other successful crime shows, but makes those things it's own.
I digress, the butt-munching is done. Let the therapy commence!
The most recent episode had me reeling in terms of Will's recent...revelation. It was pretty shocking to me and I quite literally had my jaw agape as the episode ended. I never expected Will to go this far, and I question whether the veil isn't purposefully being pulled over the viewers eyes. It's a drastic change from the normal Will persona, both in and out of the television show; but I have to admit that I remember very little from the books so perhaps this is cannon. I don't think it is though, and even so, the way things went down in the show itself lead me to believe there is at least something the viewers aren't being shown.
They didn't show Will actually killing or doing anything to Freddie other than pulling a chunk of hair out ( :lol ) and I find that pretty odd considering the artistic, detailed nature in which they've shown kills so far. There's something missing form this puzzle, and I can't wait to see the finished product. I just hope they have more seasons to expand upon it, considering we're nearing the climax of this crazy cat and mouse game Hannibal has so perfectly set up.
-
From the TV Thread:
Hannibal Watchers:
I dont' recall from any of the previous encarnations of Will Graham him being a murderer? I knew he was psychologically traumatized by Hannibal and even severely injured....but the recent murders that Will committed lends itself to him being a bit more sinister this time around.
Unless he and Jack have somehow fabricated those murders in order to gain the ability for Will to 'get closer' to Hannibal.....almost team up with them. I mean, it was only implied that the meat they were eating was the reporter.....they never actually showed him kill her. And, Will asked her to remain calm and he could explain. Maybe the murders were 'faked'? I don't know. It just seems odd that his character is suddenly 'becoming' this murderer. I've never read the books....but I've seen every movie....even the original Red Dragon with William Peterson and Graham was never depicted in this nature. Not that it doesn't make things that much more interesting.....because it does.....just curious as to other opinions on the matter.
I don't think he's killed Freddie....or that he killed the animal guy. I think it's all a part of he and Jack's "You hook em' and I'll reel him in" scheme......
-
Was just about to quote that in my post! I think that's a wonderful explanation and quite possibly what could be happening here. The ice-fishing scene was clearly pretty heavy on the alluding to something, but until now it hasn't been apparent what...and now that it's come to pass I think you're spot on.
-
Was just about to quote that in my post! I think that's a wonderful explanation and quite possibly what could be happening here. The ice-fishing scene was clearly pretty heavy on the alluding to something, but until now it hasn't been apparent what...and now that it's come to pass I think you're spot on.
Now, if that's not what's going on and Will has indeed turned into a psychopathic murderer as well......I mean, it seems to me that would be a major deviation from how his character has been portrayed in book and in all the other TV/Film adaptations. Right? I've not read the books but as I said in the TV thread I've seen all the movie adaptations and that'd be a pretty major change of character IMO.
-
Definitely. I mean, this is still all very, very different from the book; all of this is loosely based on the characters of Red Dragon and that is pretty much it. In terms of timeline, none of this happened in Red Dragon, this is all still 'prequel' territory, leading up to the events of Red Dragon. Based on that alone, I'm pretty sure that you're right, but it'd be extremely interesting if Will was going down a much darker path and almost what I hope, so that he can crawl back out again.
Then again that's obviously already been done, just not as drastically; and it'd kind of be a retreading of him crawling out of the insanity. He's clear-headed and seems to know exactly what he is and what Hannibal is and how to get him caught...but these recent events might allude to that he's going to do it in the only way he knows how: To be worse than Hannibal.
I think that'd be awesome but again...it's a far cry away from what Will is 'supposed to be'. Again though, this is all the show's own way of telling the story, Red Dragon just supplies the characters at this point; so they're free to change whatever characters they want (hell, in the book/Norton movie, Freddie is a man :lol ).
-
(hell, in the book/Norton movie, Freddie is a man :lol ).
I prefer this Freddie.....she's smokin' hot!
-
Its about time this got is own thread, it certainly deserves it. And this will probably be one of my favorite threads, I since I'm absolutely assburgers obsessed with anything Hannibal Lector/Silence of the lambs/Red Dragon.
I love this show. Oh my god. And I'm dying to see where it goes.
I don't think Will actually killed Freddie, but detaining her or something is probably part of his overall plan to bring down Hannibal. We shall see though.
-
As I stated in the TV thread, the plan for the story arc is a 7 season run. Initially, we were to see all "prequel" stuff in season 1-3. Season 4 is supposed to be Red Dragon; and Season 5 will be Silence of the Lambs. Season 6 Hannibal; and then finally Season 7 will be a n all new wrap-up to the story line. There is concern that NBC may axe the series after this season concludes. Typically, once a series gets to it's thrid season, it pretty much is a lock to run as long as it wants too. So, the timing will be critical. The ONLY bad thing about this show is that it's on network TV. Contrary to what people might think, the majority of the TV watching public does not watch or support network television programming. That and the fact that many of those idiots who do have been complaining about the graphic nature of the show, and many affiliates are pushing it be dropped. That would be tragic IMO. This is one of the best shows to be on television in a long, long time. Even though we know the stories by Harris, and have seen the films, this show is still fresh, and bad assed. The writing is superb and the cast has been nothing short of excellent. I can count on one hand the number of shows in the last ten years where at the conclusion of each episode, I think to myself, "FUUUUUCK! Now I have to wait another Goddamn week to see the next one!" This is a superb show, and I realllllly, really hope it gets it's run.
As for the Freddy Lounds arc, I too think that Will is trying to set Hannibal up by making him think he's killing. But who knows, I'm sure we'll see that all unravel and come to fruition if it gets to season 3.
-
Indeed, TV, it'd be a sight to behold if it got the seven season run it's intended to be. I'd love it if the show was able to make an entirely perfected 'universe' of these stories and entwine them. That's the only thing missing. I really don't know why this show was on network television to begin with and am consistently stunned by what they're able to get away with; it'd just be nice to have it in its unhindered glory. Apart of me shudders to think what they'd do on AMC or even HBO (I truly think that this show is good enough to be on HBO, and worth it).
I'm hoping that it gets renewed, but even so, I really think any TV higher ups would be absolutely moronic if someone didn't jump on this; preferably the premium channels. Provided that it comes to fruition, I'll smile myself once I see Clarice and Will on the same screen together, if they keep him on and change up the continuity a bit (which shouldn't be a problem).
-
Forgot to ask this.....on the last episode just before the scene where Freddie shows up at Wills house.....there was a quick cut to a scene that was only about three or four seconds.....it was Hannibal sitting in his clear plastic killing outfit in a room, maybe a hotel room.....but it was a room with a bed. And then they never really addressed anything after that.
Anyone have a guess or know who's room he was in or who he was about to murder?
-
It was Freddie's Hotel room. If she hadn't have went to interview Will first, then Hannibal would have claimed her.
-
It was Freddie's Hotel room. If she hadn't have went to interview Will first, then Hannibal would have claimed her.
Interesting. Thanks...
-
Ah I totally forgot about that! Damn...that is interesting. Pretty vital evidence for the 'Will is actually playing Hannibal' side.
-
Ah I totally forgot about that! Damn...that is interesting. Pretty vital evidence for the 'Will is actually playing Hannibal' side.
It was Freddie's Hotel room. If she hadn't have went to interview Will first, then Hannibal would have claimed her.
Wasn't that on the heels of the dinner where Alana mentioned how curious Freddie had been with her about the extent of the Hannibal/Will relationship? I guess Hannibal reached his limit with her and wanted to silence her once and for all.
This leads me to believe she's still alive even more....probably in FBI protection somewhere. Besides.....haven't they aired previews of a wheelchair on fire flying down a ramp? Wasn't that 'Freddie' in the other movie renditions of the story? Maybe Hannibal will still get his chance to take her out.
-
Indeed that was Freddie in the wheelchair, complements of the Tooth-fairy, as it was shown in Red Dragon/Manhunter. So I'm very curious how this is going to play out. I'm actually digging the shows diversions from the films overall. Keeps it interesting.
And I'm honestly surprised Hannibal didn't off her the first day he met her, considering she burst right into his house like it was no big deal and he even used the words "that was very rude Ms. Lounds"
-
Yes, Phoenix! I was shocked she wasn't killed earlier! On the topic of the wheelchair...the prop department either did an absolutely horrible job on creating a 'fake Freddie', or the show is using it in an entirely different way (either connected or unconnected to Freddie) than the source. I'm betting on the latter considering that even in that 1-second clip we see of the chair, that most definitely is not a female in the chair, even if it is burnt to a crisp, just the general perimeter of the person is much larger than this show's Freddie. But it's awesome that they included this scene at all, I had honestly completely forgot about it given that the show is almost entirely deviant from the book in every way possible.
But that was one hell of a preview. I actually hadn't seen it till you mentioned it, g-man. I buy these on iTunes since I don't own a TV and thus sometimes forget to watch the previews since they aren't included in the iTunes eps. I forgot this time. :lol But that was awesome, very well done preview, I can't wait!!!!
-
FUCK YESSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://insidetv.ew.com/2014/05/09/hannibal-renewed-season-3/
Ladies and gentleman, madmen and misfits, dear Doctors and Avid fans, WE HAVE A SEASON 3!!!
-
:clap: Well done NBC
-
DIIIIITTTOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
WOOT! HANNIBITES REJOICE!
I haven't seen tonight's episode but I will either later tonight or tomorrow. That is SO good to hear though.
-
Well that didn't take long to prove the theory of Will not killing Freddie, that it was a set up....to come to pass. I love how they moved it right along.
I guess it's cinimentography....but the shots they use when Will and Hannibal are speaking....making Hannibals eyes jet black with that speck of white gleen....things like that are what I love about the show, and you know it's intentional.
-
Excellent news on Season 3.
-
Excellent news on Season 3.
It's refreshing to know that they renewed Hannibal but cancelled Revolution despite Revolution pulling "better numbers".
I watch Revolution as well....but I'm escstatic they chose to ax it in lieu of Hannibal.
-
Beautiful episode, I especially loved the moments of Shiva encompassing Hannibal's 'shadow', and the birth of the shadow of Will. It was pretty obvious what was going on with Freddie, so I'm glad they didn't drag it out. Also can't wait to see Mason mutilated, that little shit is the most despicable thing on the show. That's saying a lot considering. :lol
-
This show just keeps getting better and better.
But literally for the first time I was offput by what I saw. I seriously had to look away when Verger was with the kid. I knew it was coming, but its still really just awful. Murder and mayham is all good and fun, but Verger... ugh. Even Hannibal had a look of disgust on his face during therapy.
And the whole forced abortion/sterilization of Margot. Verger has now become the ugliest character on the show and I can't wait for hannibal to remodel his face to reflect this trait.
-
Holy cow what a great episode! What Hannibal did to Mason was absolutely disgusting....feeding himself to Will's dogs and enjoying it!? WTF!! This show is so well done....
I'm curious as to if the assertion that Hannibals Psychologist, Dr. Bedelia?, if what she said about Hannibal was true. That he probably actually knows what Will and Jack are up to? You kind of get the feeling he does and maybe just doesn't care? Or, have Will and Jack done a good enough job hiding it? But the 'theme' of the dinner he served Jack of the fish not knowing who is chasing who was convincing enough for me to think that maybe Hannibal does know and he really just enjoys it.
-
God DAMN I love this show! Every time I think I've seen the best, they crush it and redefine the meaning of shock and awe. I'm tired as hell and have to be up in a few hours so...tomorrow, I'll rewatch and repost. But this was one hell of an amazing feat by the creators...I cannot believe they showed it. When Mason initially took the drug and Hannibal told Mason, "No, I want you to show me on yourself" (or something to that extent), and then it ended the scene, I thought that'd be it. Then Will shows up and it's one of the few times I had my jaw agape for a few seconds without realizing it. SO AWESOME WRITING WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
-
So I went back and watched Manhunter and absolutely loved it. The style, the subtlety, the soundtrack. Just loved every minute of. Red Dragon on the other hand... Brett Ratner's baby, is something I just could never get into.
(https://content7.flixster.com/movie/27/46/274601_det.jpg) VS. (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bd/Red_Dragon_movie.jpg/220px-Red_Dragon_movie.jpg)
I'm curious how you guys feel about the two versions?
-
I'm the opposite. I should note that I saw Red Dragon first, but still enjoyed Manhunter, just...couldn't 'get into it', I didn't really feel anything for it other than some fading intrigue. Also Ralph Fiennes is my baby daddy and Ed Norton is my jam.
-
OK, time out. Hannibal is now quoting Mason Verger... cmon.
"when the fox hears the rabbit scream, he comes a running, but not to help"
Directly from verger in Hannibal, now coming out of Hannibal's mouth. Up to this point, I didn't really mind the random quoting of the films/books, but I'm calling shenanigans on that.
Only 5 minutes into the finale. Probably will have more to report soon.
So glad they mentioned the memory palace. I'm currently researching them and not only do I find them delightfully fascinating, but I would love to be able to utilize them one day.
-
Since I don't want any possible book spoilers or "mythos" spoilers beyond the point of the show I won't read anything else here in this thread. I'll only drop in to say that the season 2 finale was absolutely incredible. Hannibal has officially taken the spot as my second favorite TV show, surpassing both Breaking Bad and Sherlock.
-
Thoughts on the Finale
Bloom is a dumb bitch and got what she deserved. The guy doesn't know you brought extra bullets and rather than use the element of surprise, you shout out "HEY, I've got more bullets, please take cover and then come kill me" And seriously, you don't even check if you gun is loaded before going over the serial killer's house. God I hate her.
A lot of build up to the final showdown in this episode. Too much in my opinion, but the final showdown was pretty damn sweet though.
I guess all of season 3 will be the Hunt of Hannibal, which I don't even know how I feel about. Gonna have to really think about this.
-
Yeah...I almost felt like the finale was too much overkill (sic). We're led to believe that this is a retelling of the stories with a great deal of foreground added into the arc; but this was almost too much. In the original books Will was gravely injured by Hannibal when Will captured him. Well he didn't quite capture him during the finale. I guess were just going to get a loose interpretation during this retelling. Whats next? We'll meet Carl Starling instead of Clarice? Great show, but too much departure and I think a lot of people could lose interest. Still...I can't wait for next season. I love this show.
-
I couldn't agree more TV.
Its like here's Brian Fuller's guide to writing Hannibal 101:
Step 1- Take random character from the cannon
Step 2- Gender swap them
Step 3- Have random character A recite Random character B's dialogue from cannon. Completely out of context, btw.
It has strayed too far in my opinion. Too many liberties with the cannon and they are fast forwarding through everything. The whole verger thing was too rushed and sloppy. I didn't know that if you were rich, you could just blatantly murder FBI agents and prominent psychiatrists. The whole dynamic was different in Hannibal (film) at that point Hannibal was an out-ed murderer and killing him and covering it up is feasible. But just to randomly kill your therapist for the lol's. Come on.
And the whole Freddie lounds on fire thing was such bullshit. The red dragon set him on fire because the use of flame as a weapon fits the MO of a "Red Dragon". Now that kick ass, incredible moment of the Red dragon saga has been used up. Its gone. Randomly thrown away just like all the other random canon stuff on this show. I just don't get it.
I love the franchise, but I don't know how I feel about this show.
And anybody who didn't watch until after the credits, make sure you watch until after the credits.
-
SOB Phoenix....I already deleted and didn't watch after the credits. Can you small font what happened for me?
BTW I loved the finale but agree that Alana was an idiot for not checking her weapon before she entered the home.
Was a bit like 'whatever' when Abigal was revealed to be alive. It's like...where does Lectar get l this time to keep girls prisoner and continually brain way them....make those fly fishing deals to set up Will...construct elaborate murder scenes....draw beautiful drawings...compose music....keep detailed diaries....cook elaborate meals....oh and, be a psychologist with patients?
Anyway....I love the show a lot but am interested in how they are going to approach next season, and who out of all the dying people in Hannibals house will live?
-
GDM, I did the same damn thing first time through. I saw clouds and credits and was like "ok, I guess its over" but no...
Rather than just spell it out and ruin the surprise, I'll let you just see it for yourself. NBC put it on Hulu
https://www.hulu.com/watch/640095
It will let you just skip to the end, and then you will see...
-
It will let you just skip to the end, and then you will see...
thanks for the link.....that is interesting for sure! WTF was she up to the whole time....was she conspiring with him? Or does Hannibal just have the ability to brainwash any and everyone? Pretty neat....
-
The Truth is out there...
but in all seriousness, seeing the full ending felt much more satisfying and thought provoking vs. the clouds/credits business.
-
This is quickly becoming my favorite TV series. Again, they surpassed my expectations in every way; I had my mouth agape towards the end... I thought I called it twice and then they threw it in my face, I loved every second; this is truly a beautiful show. I absolutely cannot wait till S3! I hope that this show has it's full reign after this, because it'd be an utter shame to stop now. So fucking awesome, these writers. They're taking the best of the books, twisting it, and expanding to fill it into one big cannibalistic universe. Love it.
The ones that didn't like it: did you just want to see another retelling of what we've already seen adapted (amazingly so) within the films? This show is not a faithful adaptation of the books. Nothing is meant to be a 'direct' adaptation. I thought that was made glaringly clear as this show was initially being made, even in previews. I mean...it's like complaining that The Walking Dead television series strays from the books; they're two completely different beasts. It's actually very much the same situation. Hannibal the series has used the groundwork from the novels, but the structure and end result is going to be completely different in the show.
Either way, if you don't like what they've created, that's one thing. But to complain that it's not faithful...that's kind of :huh: I dunno, I love that they now have so much freedom on where to go with the characters and how to expand upon the overarching (and completely disjointed) Hannibal related stories told through the novels. I especially love what they did with Freddie. She's hot, but holy shit is she absolutely abhorrent and I cannot wait to see how they kill her off in the show. She's more revolting than what the novels paint, but she's great to look at...till she opens her mouth. Hell, now I can even see Hannibal Rising mythos weaved in without having to watch the mediocre movie again or read the absolutely horrid book (though it had its moments...some of which I'm hoping are adapted to the series).
But y'know, you like what you like. I friggin' love what they've created. Also yes, Bloom is a fucking putz. My GOD what a douche. GET ON THEIR LEVEL, ALANA.
This (https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/24/hannibal-bryan-fuller-on-season-2s-shocking-end-and-big-changes-in-season-3) is a wonderful read for anyone who has any doubts about the series or where it's going, and is all together an awesome interview. Definitely, firebird and tv, if you have problems with what the show has done so far...you might wanna jump ship after reading this. :lol
(https://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr189/pitxlol/faces/2csi87k.gif)
-
So I just finished my second viewing of S2 and solidified the show as my new favorite TV series. By far. What an absolute work of art this show is, I truly hope they can keep up the hard work for future seasons and maintain the level of detail and exposition. Little things that allude through imagery, all the little nuances of transitioning scenes by fusing them (in one of my favorites, Will "see's" Alana and Jack walking in a field through the empty windows of his cage), everything down to the timing of scenes and the music that goes with it is beautifully crafted.
It may or may not lead to anything, but there's an equally chilling and awesome transition of scenes when Will asks Jack, "Who does he have to kill for you to open your eyes?" and the next shot is of Alana, cooking with Hannibal; little stuff like that is so great to see now that we've seen the finale and all the carnage that goes with it. I really love that they're truly taking their own route with the show, all the while fitting in homages and nods to the books and movies while retaining (and improving upon, in my opinion) their essence and the core of the story of Hannibal.
I really hope the show picks up in viewers and people catch on to it, the people who make it happen really deserve to have their work applauded if you're into this type of show and/or are a fan of the movies at all. Being a reader of the books may either help greatly or kill it. :lol I've read all the books and think that they're weaving the universe nicely; it'd be a real pleasure to see it all play out and Fuller gets to tell the full story, which sounds amazing if they can pull it off and hopefully ratings rise.
-
I know nothing about the current ratings but I've heard that it was on Friday nights? That's absolute death for TV shows.
-
Luckily it's great enough to have the critical acclaim keep it alive basically, and has been renewed for S3. It's a trooper of a show, so hopefully it'll get moved to another spot; it'd be a true shame to see it go.
-
Luckily it's great enough to have the critical acclaim keep it alive basically, and has been renewed for S3. It's a trooper of a show, so hopefully it'll get moved to another spot; it'd be a true shame to see it go.
Everything I've read is that the Exec's at NBC love it, and that it has thier support. The Friday night slot is perfect for that show I think....the theme and creepiness of the show just wouldn't 'fit' early in the week IMO.
-
I agree, though it is historically a pretty bad spot for a show, it's shown that it can work out quite well. :tup
I love that I keep seeing new things each time I watch. I am really just making the wait unbearable for myself. :lol
-
So some awesome Hannibal news came out of Comicon (https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/25/sdcc-14-which-characters-returning-and-new-will-we-see-in-season-3)! It's basically a final confirmation that while we're following a general layout of the books, it's going to be a fusion of the books' universe to make a more coherent, connected storyline; overall it's a newly woven story of all the book's characters, large plot points and character developments with material from the books/movies and new material connecting it all. I LOVE IT! This is precisely what I wanted, and I really hope Fuller's vision gets to play itself out without any hiccups; it sounds like he has a very specific vision and if there's someone to pick it up should NBC (and probably will before S5) drop it. Granted, we're not even on S3 yet so that's down the road.
It's AWESOME to hear that Dolarhyde is going to make an appearance this season. That is my absolute favorite roll from Fiennes, and he was a major obsession of mine when I originally saw the movie and it's what launched me getting into the Hannibal universe. So I really hope they get an actor that can portray the absolute evil that Dolarhyde is as well as Fiennes did. Also great news on the other characters, especially Murasaki, which is the biggest change-up so far, a Hannibal Rising character (who is completely badass)! I was hoping they'd weave Rising characters into the actual story instead of using flashbacks or references (like Hannibal mentioning his sister and uncle earlier in the series). This is totally awesome news.
All in all this show keeps on getting more interesting and it's great to hear that they've got specific plans for down the line already. I can't WAIT till this show returns!
-
I saw the info that came from Comic Con. I also read an interview from the excs that as of yet, they do not have permission for the Clarice Starling character; but that they had ''alternate" plans for that if it didn't happen. What? They gonna make the character a black man named "Maurice Darling" or something? Without that character, I'm not sure how strong the show can become. Also the ever present "fugue-state" arc with Will is perilously close to jumping the shark with me. Hopefully having is guts splayed all over the floor will shake him the hell out of it, and we can move into some more of a faster pace. I still love the show; but there are a number of things going against it; and I fear the producers knowing this will muck it up. I mean this may very well be the last season. As I've mentioned in the TV thread, the suits at NBC apparently LOVE the show; but even they recognize it's NOT a network program; and if the ratings don't really, really spike, well...you know the rest. Fingers crossed.
-
Oh, I have no doubts it'll be dropped, more than likely this season; I'm also absolutely certain that it'll get picked up by someone else. It's too much of a critical hit, even if it doesn't have the viewer ratings, the amount of high-quality production and exposition is too grand to not have the show picked up. But yes, Clarice is more than likely not going to appear, I actually read that it's now been confirmed that MGM isn't going to budge. I really don't care about that aspect personally, anyone that knows the source material will know who she 'really' is and I don't need it spelled out for me. Obviously if I had it my way we'd have the whole original gang there, but the world is full of greedy shits so... It is what it is. But yeah, they were being facetious when saying they'll create a character named, as Fuller put it, Shmarlice Shmarling. I'm not sure where you got 'black man' from. :lol They're not gonna change it up that much.
I am however fully expecting the character to be Clarice in every way except for her name; it'd be a good way to have it obvious to people who aren't that familiar with the source material, and still stick it to MGM saying 'We made it work, assholes'. ;D I'm not holding my breath for anything to go through before the show starts up again. I'm confident that the team they have is smart and creative enough to make this whole thing work, and I have no issue with name changes. Hell, they've changed so much already that this is pretty much their game now, they're free to do what they want and if that means having to create basically a clone of Clarice with a different name, it wouldn't be all that different from what they've done so far.
It's disappointing but I saw this coming so I'm not that torn up about it. What do you mean when you say Will's fugue state? He's been mentally and psychologically in control the entire season. Anything resembling any type of mental disorder has been a ploy to (attempt to) play Hannibal.
-
I didn't say that I heard they were going to create a character named "Maurice". That was my own interpretation of how they would develop the character. And a "black man" would be as far from Clarice (white woman) as you could get, no? And Will continuously falls off into a fugue-state wherein he disassociates with reality and suffers from moments of delirium (his constant struggle with visions, and dream states). Granted, not as present as when Hannibal hid his encephalitis, but still is used quite a lot. While it adds to the tension and allows the viewer to understand the depths of the madness both principal characters share, it appears to be the only device they use with any frequency. As much as this show kicks-ass, they could spread it around more. Then again, I create fiction every day; so I'm probably more critical than most. Still, I hope this show does carry on. I do have it on pretty good authority, that even NBC execs would allow the show to jump to Netflix, or another streaming venue without batting an eye. It's rare when a network loves a show so much that even if it means letting it go, they still want to see it succeed. That just doesn't really happen in show bidness.
-
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, they did it with Freddie... I just hope they wouldn't do it to such a beloved character; on the other hand it'd be interesting if they pulled it off as well as they did Freddie.
As for Will's mental state, I think that's a part of his character that will be around for a while, at least until a certain part of his story. But I can see how that'd kind of wane.
-
GREAT interview (https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/09/08/hannibal-bryan-fuller-on-playing-with-hannibals-origin-and-big-surprises-in-season-3) and information on the show! (Despite the utter idiocy of IGN and the half-cocked reviewer and some questions)
I am just so furggin' excited to see that it's, very surprisingly so, being envisioned exactly as I hoped it would. This is a true dream come true for me and I really, REALLY hope that they not only continue to get support but that it grows so we can see this whole thing come to life. If they keep up the gravitas, the (and I love the use of words Fuller used) remixing and meshing of stories, this could end up being my favorite series by far and away, and already is one of my favorites. It'd be a true string of insane luck for all this to play out as described and in keeping with the magnitude of beauty and horror they've already wrought, but god damn I want to see this happen so badly and I have a slight hope it will.
MY BODY IS READY TO BE CHOPPED UP! (https://www.umop.net/emoticons/excited4.gif)
Ed: Don't wanna do three bumps in a row but here's another great interview (https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/09/16/hannibal-mads-mikkelsen-talks-dr-lecters-past-and-future?page=2), this time from Hannibal himself.
-
Trailer for season 3
https://www.nbc.com/hannibal
I am excite. June 4 can't come fast enough.
-
Didn't watch the trailer, after the absolutely amazing season 2 finale, I don't want to see a single second of what's to come before it's out. Super excited for season 3 though!
-
TONIGHT!!! :metal
-
Saw the season premiere tonight... Meh it was okay I guess. A two hour episode would have been nice. It was a bit of a let down after waiting since the end of season two. Looking forward to see this season unfold..... Now I'm hungry. ::)
-
For a show that struggles to get numbers and was on the verge of cancellation, they weren't doing themselves any favors with that episode.
As someone who is absolutely obsessed about the lector series, I found that premier to be slow, plodding and tedious.
still looking forward to the rest of the season though.
-
I thought it was excellent. Not as action packed as the season 2 closer of course, but still really interesting, creepy, and tense enough for me.
-
Seemed like a slow burning setup for the rest of the season but I'll agree that there really wasn't much that grabbed in this episode.
Hannibal killing that one guy fell kind of flat since the episode was setting him up to be somewhat of a player this season and even a threat, although he played his hand when he confessed to Hannibal that he sort of knew what was going on towards the end of the episode.
-
I've enjoyed both episodes. The imagery is top notch as usual and both episodes have shown two characters that still allow Hannibal to 'control' them despite knowing how maniacal he is. I thought this episode with a Will was good and was curious had Hannibal not heard Will 'forgive' him....would he have killed Will or that Cop? Anyway, I don't think it's missed a beat....
-
It's interesting to see Will slip more and more, especially with the hallucinations. Maybe that's dangerous as he is a broken man with nothing to lose.
-
It's interesting to see Will slip more and more, especially with the hallucinations. Maybe that's dangerous as he is a broken man with nothing to lose.
His character has always been a bit on the brink of just losing it. Only when he and Jack decided to 'trap' Hannibal did he seem to come into his own. Then, boom.....Hannibal takes whatever strength or confidence he had from him....at the same time letting him know that he (Hannibal) allowed it all to happen.
I thought it was interesting he used an imaginary Abigail to help help him reconcile everything that had happened....and I suppose he had been 'seeing' her for that 8 month period.....and he didn't really let her go until he knew he had found Hannibal.
-
Great episode, awesomely gross visuals.
But I do have two small complaints. The voice of the italian police guy was a bit annoying, and the episode was a little bit too trippy throughout. An actual normal scene from time to time is always good to balance things out.
-
Great episode, awesomely gross visuals.
That heart made out of a man transforming into the latest version of Will's Black Elk creature was terrifyingly awesome!!
-
the episode was a little bit too trippy throughout. An actual normal scene from time to time is always good to balance things out.
This right here.
I don't mind the show going abstract from time to time, but that's how the whole episode felt. I was not liking it at all. There needs to be a balance.
-
the episode was a little bit too trippy throughout. An actual normal scene from time to time is always good to balance things out.
This right here.
I don't mind the show going abstract from time to time, but that's how the whole episode felt. I was not liking it at all. There needs to be a balance.
I got the impression it was to give a glimpse of Will's state of mind? It took me until seeing Abigail's 'clean' neckline in the police station to realize that he was hallucinating her.
-
1.66 rating for this weeks episode.
They are digging their own grave and there's no reason to. I am insanely into the Hannibal fiction and I wanted to turn that episode off.
I really have enjoyed the show, but with it having struggled to get renewed for a 3rd season, I don't see it making it to a 4th.
-
Well, I don't agree with that. Despite those small issues, I still thought the episode was pretty great.
-
I really have enjoyed the show, but with it having struggled to get renewed for a 3rd season, I don't see it making it to a 4th.
I recall reading that NETFLIX is just waiting for the opportunity to scoop it up if it is cancelled. So there's hope that it will still at least be produced. Whether its the same writers....same production value and so on as it is on NBC is the question.
Plus, the NBC Execs LOVE the show itself and is really the only reason why it's still on the air. I'll try to dig up the article I read but essentially when it boils down to it....the show doesn't really cost them that much to provide.
-
They probably know it's their last season and are doing the weirdest shit just because. First two episodes are pretty meh.
-
S3 E2... Meh. Hope their just warming up.
-
Best episode so far this season. That dinner scene especially was really unexpected and disturbing.
-
All I could think about during that scene
(https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x459/phoenix87x/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-19%20at%208.54.57%20PM_zps3pghurbt.png) (https://s1182.photobucket.com/user/phoenix87x/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-19%20at%208.54.57%20PM_zps3pghurbt.png.html)
A fine episode overall
-
Cancelled at the end of this season apparently.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hannibal-canceled-at-nbc-804239
-
Cancelled at the end of this season apparently.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hannibal-canceled-at-nbc-804239
well..that sucks. No mention of interest from any other source either. I was under the impression that NETFLIX was just waiting for this to be cancelled to scoop it up...don't recall why I thought that?
-
I'm assuming Netflix will pick it up.
-
Excerpt from article on Buzzfeed:
"NBC has been a wonderful home for three seasons of Hannibal, and we still have 10 mind-blowing episodes taking Hannibal and Will into uncharted terrain," wrote De Laurentiis. "We believe that after they air, audiences' hunger for the fourth chapter of this saga will be incredible, and are presently exploring other distribution options with our creative team and our partners at Gaumont Television."
So, the door is still open for the story to continue.
-
I hope it will survive somehow, it would be total ball suckage if it didn't. I thing Netflix would be great for it, and they seem to have less restrictions than NBC had, so that's the option I'm hoping for. I also heard Amazon might be interested, but I don't know much about them.
-
I also heard Amazon might be interested, but I don't know much about them.
There like this really big rain forest in South America.
-
It all makes sense now.
-
A lot of producers have said they are looking for a new home for their show when it gets cancelled, but how many actually make the move to a new network? I'm not holding my breath.
-
A lot of producers have said they are looking for a new home for their show when it gets cancelled, but how many actually make the move to a new network? I'm not holding my breath.
In any other instance I'd be the same....but this series has been critically acclaimed and has peeked the interest of many industry folk...and the rumor of other Networks being interested in it should it ever be cancelled has been persistent since the first season really. i think if any show had a shot of pulling it off...it'd be this one.
It all makes sense now.
:fistpump: I love making sense outa stuff.....
-
I also heard Amazon might be interested, but I don't know much about them.
Seasons 1 & 2 are streaming on Amazon, so that makes more sense than Netflix.
-
I also heard Amazon might be interested, but I don't know much about them.
Seasons 1 & 2 are streaming on Amazon, so that makes more sense than Netflix.
Yeah...it would then, wouldn't it? They'd seem to have more to gain. Does Amazon have many series they've produced themselves? All I hear about is NETFLIX producing all these new series.
-
Yeah, Amazon does some, and will be doing more in the future AFAIK.
-
Best episode of the season so far.
Even though I really don't like the movie Hannibal, regardless I am wildly fascinated by the Mason Verger character. He's the missing flavor that this season was so much requiring.
And Good on the show for doing its homework
(https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x459/phoenix87x/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-26%20at%209.18.03%20AM_zpsz5rvdidz.png) (https://s1182.photobucket.com/user/phoenix87x/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-26%20at%209.18.03%20AM_zpsz5rvdidz.png.html)
All the meds are indeed the real life meds. Good on them for putting effort into preparing a 1 second shot.
The Toxicology report would have seen that he intentionally overdosed her, but having so many connections he probably was able to avoid that. Or maybe he didn't do it, but that's kind of how I saw it.
-
It actually bothered me to learn that Alana survived. That means that all the main characters survived the season 2 finale, which really retroactively bogged down that episode. I get that it still had consequences, and everyone's changed and stuff, but it's still a bit disappointing to learn that one of your favorite episodes in TV history was pretty much a triple fake-out.
Otherwise the episode was good. I'm not a big fan of flashbacks when they're used like this though, so this wasn't my favorite.
-
I also am not a big fan of the flashbacks. I hope that starting next week, they leave it behind, and get things going with the current story only. And I'm having trouble figuring what the hell is even going on.
First, Will's in Europe, then he's at the lector estate, presumably tracking hannibal, nows he's back home and then at the end of the episode he's sailing, which leads me to believe he's getting ready to retire to florida. (but with hannibal on the lose?)
What the hell is going on.
-
It actually bothered me to learn that Alana survived. ......... and everyone's changed and stuff
I used to like her character, and I can't remember the reason she said her personality would change.....marrow in her blood?...anyway, she was extremely annoying to me for some reason in this episode. I think it's because she's suddenly this sinister revenge seeker whereas she's never been presented like that before. It bugs me.
I agree with the fact they've all survived. Alana would have been the simplest and cleanest character to kill off with little or no detriment to the show.
I also am not a big fan of the flashbacks. I hope that starting next week, they leave it behind, and get things going with the current story only. And I'm having trouble figuring what the hell is even going on.
First, Will's in Europe, then he's at the lector estate, presumably tracking hannibal, nows he's back home and then at the end of the episode he's sailing, which leads me to believe he's getting ready to retire to florida. (but with hannibal on the lose?)
What the hell is going on.
My take was all of the last episode took place prior to Will going to Europe....which I guess he sailed to? I thought the whole episode was a flashback and happenings of the 8 months before Will wound up in Europe.
-
lol, when I saw the boat, that's what I thought too. Like... is this dude sailing to Europe? Will the sailor :yarr
-
I'm a little sick of the flashbacks at this point as well. I know they're doing it to tie in all of the characters but it seems like they're a little too giddy about how well received the last episode of last season was so they're milking the shit out of it.
-
Last night's episode was fantastic.
-
Last night's episode was fantastic.
Such a sweet episode. That final showdown between Jack and Hannibal was pretty cool....starting with Jack looking up at Hannibal in the open window then ending the exact opposite.
I was never a huge fan of Lana but even more so this season. Just not convinced of the 180 her character has taken. I know she suffered a traumatic experience but to lose all compassion....especially the amount she had shown....I'm just not buying it.
-
I thought that wold jarr me, but it actually hasn't. I have found myself actually going along with it and finding that turn quite enjoyable.
-
Damn. Last night's episode was intense!
-
Comic con sneak preview of the Red Dragon. Mother of god :hefdaddy
https://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/11/hannibal-red-dragon-comic-con-2015-video
This is exactly what I want
-
I'm wondering if Hannibal made the decision to eat a Will after Will tried to kill him or if he was going to eat him all along? I'm thinking he was going to eat him all along.
-
Yeah I think so too.
-
Can't say I'm surprised....but NBC effective immediately has moved Hannibal to Saturday nights.....
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/nbc-dumps-hannibal-aquarius-saturdays-215312870.html
-
Last night was not only the best episode of this season, but one of the best of the entire show.
-
Last night's episode was really good. Can't wait to see the Red Dragon story arc
-
Last night was not only the best episode of this season, but one of the best of the entire show.
Last night's episode was really good. Can't wait to see the Red Dragon story arc
It'll be a travesty of storytelling and television if this show isn't picked up by another network/station. It's so good right now.
-
^^^
I totally agree. The show has finally blossomed into what I wanted it to be from the very beginning and now its going away. Oh well, I shall savor these last episodes.
-
Mads Mikkelsen IS Hannibal...period, paragraph...end. Hopkins did a good job in Silence of the Lambs, but what Mikkelsen has turned that character into is nothing short of extraordinary (theatrically speaking) When they were having dinner discussing how he'd be eaten and prepared and the look on his face...knowing that it was never going to happen....that was awesome.
So many moments in this series where he has owned the episode...such fun to watch.
-
Yeah, Mikkelsen is amazing. I like Hopkins as much as anyone, but Mads is just owning it.
-
Do you think Will figured out that Hannibal would continue his reign of terror with the assumption that Will was in tow always looking for him and teetering on the edge of joining him, prompting him to tell Hannibal he was 'done' with the chase? Or, do you think he was just so weak and exhausted and realized that he'd never 'catch' Hannibal...that Hannibal would always remain several steps ahead in the game and it was a losing cause...so he just threw in the towel. Not expecting Hannibal to surrender given Will had abandoned him?
-
I don't know if Will has actually let him go, but I do think he genuinely wants to, or at least wants to want to. And he knows why he wants it, he doesn't "have [Hannibal's] appetite", he isn't as much of a monster.
I really don't know though, I'm just improvising.
-
It just seemed to me like it was Will admitting to Hannibal (and himself) that in essence he can't compete with Hannibal. Hannibal is just too much of a force...a genuine specimen and no matter how badly Will wanted to beat him at his own game I think he realized that there is no possible way anyone can beat Hannibal (hence maybe the appetite comment?) Along with Alana asking Hannibal if she ever could have understood him and him giving her (what appeared to be) a sympathetic yet caring NO....it seemed this episode served to clarify that Hannibal is indeed in a class of his own and that if it weren't for him deciding to surrender he'd likely have never been caught.
-
To echo the statements made on this page, this last episode was everything I could ever hope for in Hannibal; it was my idea of a perfect episode. Not gonna lie, I was heartbroken when I heard they cancelled it but it wasn't all that surprising. Here's hoping that they find a new home for it.
I was really sketched out by the change in Verger's actors but Anderson is (was) fucking awesome in the role and I think I like him more than Pitt. It's sad that these might be the last episodes ever but hopefully they're going to go balls to the wall and go out with a bang. I'm pretty certain that every season has ended in such a way that if they were cancelled, it'd still be a fitting ending (I suppose you could argue against that for S2) so I doubt we'll be left with a cliffhanger. It'll be awesome to see the glory of the Red Dragon, and I'm loving the way that all the characters have been portrayed, especially the amazingly deadly and gorgeous Chiyo.
Good stuff so far for S3, I was getting a little confused and a bit frustrated with all the jumping around in terms of timeline as well as locale but it's come together nicely; I'm still definitely going to rewatch to get a better perspective though.
-
And so the show finally begins
This is exactly what I wanted from day 1 and Its finally here. I couldn't be happier.
-
I don't know anything about the Red Dragon story, so it'll be exciting to see what it's all about. Even without dialogue, Richard Armitage did a really good job portraying someone who just seems completely mentally sick.
-
I totally agree. His performance was excellent. Very engrossing and very convincing. Excellent stuff.
-
Of course this show would have some of the greatest episodes it's ever had right after it gets cancelled. That was probably my second favorite episode of the show, what a fantastic entry into the Red Dragon saga. I'm sad that it has to be a bit rushed but they're doing a fantastic job with what they've got left. I'm really sad to see it go, especially since it's pretty dim hope that it'll be picked up. I'm truly not into a movie because I love the format it's in as is and honestly this is more amazing than any Hannibal-series movie they've done. I am utterly astonished with some of the crazy awesome concepts they have with their cinematography and overall use of both practical set and CGI, which is always top notch and just as artsy as the rest.
Armitage is great as 'ole Francy and I like the choices for Will's family. Awesome stuff, I'm definitely going to binge this season down the line.
-
I'm just curious as to if any of the Exec's at NBC who made the call to cancel,the show actually watched any of this season prior to making that decision? Just fantastic episodes lately that are clearly building to a great finale.....
This show HAS to get picked up by someone.
-
Just another awesome episode. As they begin to stack on top of one another it's all the more saddening this show has yet to find a new home. Such a great season going on right now.
-
Yeah, I'm really enjoying the Red Dragon story so far. Armitage continues to do a marvelous job portraying this guy.
Abigail cutting the throat of her father's corpse was really disgusting, another classic only-on-this-show moment.
-
Yeah, I'm really enjoying the Red Dragon story so far. Armitage continues to do a marvelous job portraying this guy.
Abigail cutting the throat of her father's corpse was really disgusting, another classic only-on-this-show moment.
Agree on both. Whatever that fluid was leaking out of him was.....ehh...gross!
For all the effort Hannibal put in to manicuring Abigail, seemingly 'loving' her....then to just kill her the way he did. Man...says a lot about just how F'd up and psychopathic he is.
-
The guy playing dolarhyde is AMAZING :hefdaddy
The actress playing Molly sucks though
One thing I think they screwed up on was having the phone call between Hannibal and dolarhyde after his date with Reba. In previous incarnations, after his time spent with her, he began to resist the Dragon and this internal struggle was fascinating, but here, he has the date with her and then is all like "hey Hannibal, sup, I'm the Dragon and shit". Just felt a little out of order. All his heinous shit should be pre-reba. Pre-redemption (or attempt at redemption)
besides that, everything is cool.
-
Another amazing episode. Absolutely awesome to see these episodes give specific justice and singularity to scenes that have literally been word for word told before and yet this show makes those scenes its own. I was floored when (I've seen Red Dragon at least a dozen times and can recite it if I was bored enough) the scenes that played out were actually and literally the same. I figured Fuller would find a way to deviate and yet retell, but he's got some serious balls in recreating those scenes exactly and still giving them a feeling of their own. That is some fucking awesome victories for the show.
Makes me even more depressed thinking that it might be over in a handful of episodes. It'd be typical though; that's for god damn sure.
-
I just re-watched Manhunter. I absolutely love that movie :heart
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/77/Manhunter_michael_mann_film_poster.jpg) (https://madisonmovie.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/manhunter.jpg)
For anyone who is really enjoying the red dragon segment currently, I highly recommend it
-
Yeah....that is a cool movie. Interesting take on characters that we all know from different iterations.
-
Another great episode. Fun to see Will give Bedelia some shit. And Armitage was awesome as usual.
-
Armitage :metal
stealing the show
This is the height of my enjoyment of the series and I wish they would have done this set up from beginning. Rather than have an elaborate "killer of the week" (power rangers style), instead a have one killer that we follow over 4 or 5 episodes and really get to know and understand, because what's going on now is absolute gold.
-
I get the feeling the remainder of the 'red dragon' arc is going to take us to the end of the season (show?) Which, all in all won't be that bad given how great it's been but it's a bummer that there has been no news of this being picked up by anyone else yet thus leaving this arc being the final arc of the show.
-
Damn....Hannibal is just flat being a dick to Will now. Guess he finally got ticked he went to prison for that guy.
Another great episode. It seems pretty clear now that the resolution to,the Red Dragon storyline will be the season finale....and for,the time being, the series itself. And if that's the case then it's been an awesome ride it will always beg the question "what could have been" had they allowed the series to run the seven seasons it was mapped out for.
-
I don't really have anything new to say that I haven't said every week. The show's great.
-
Chiltons demise and the visuals associated with it were gruesome! Interesting deviation from the story as it's been told prior.
-
Chilton just can not catch a break. sliced up, burned, chewed up, dissected, shot in the face... geez :lol
-
Psyched for the finale next week!
-
Psyched for the finale next week!
Yeah....very curious to see how/if they deviate from any of the "cannon" out there to close out the Red Dragon Arc.
Anyone read/seen ANYTHING about this show getting picked up anywhere? I just can't believe it could be over for good?
-
Holy heck what a way to (potentially) close out a series! :clap:
I mean, what an episode.....Will and Hannibal together at the end. I'm just curious as to if Will had planned all,along for The Red Dragon to 'free' Hannibal? If he'd tipped him off on what was going down? I think he did as portrayed by the look on Jacks face at the crime scene.
I guess 'if' it's picked up they'll be able to say Will captured Hannibal....as they do in the cannon.
-
Awesome finale. Awesome show. Everything is awesome.
-
That was a sweet finale
Thoughts on the entire series:
Season 1- Cool, but really wasn't into the whole killer of the week thing. And the fact that they were so far fetched and gimmicky... Especially the human body totem pole thing, but they were finding their footing so whatever.
Season 2- Really excellent season. Just very solid stuff
Season 3 part A- I wanted to die. All the abstract europe storyline. Kill me. I also never bought Hannibal turning himself in for will. In the book, he toyed with Will and when Will finally got too close, just tried to take him out. Here, its this whole bromance thing and the whole "I can't live without you thing" never really worked for me. It just muddled the story a little imo.
Season 3 part B- The red dragon arc :metal Absolutely loved it. Everything was elevated. The writing, the concepts, the storyline, characters. Just utterly amazing
overall, a cool show and i was happy to have it
-
I just watched this whole series (in the span of like a week and a half :lol) and loooved it.
Some thoughts- I actually thought the third season was the weakest but still great. I agree about all the Europe stuff. I guess the whole Hannibal turning himself in thing was a bit hard to swallow, but it was just another excellent mindfuck. I haven't read the books (but know the story) so all the changes in the plot didn't bother me, and I did like the "bromance" aspect (and that final scene :heart). I loved the development of their fucked up relationship and all the crazy psychological shit.
I didn't really like where things went with Alanna, and sort of found that hard to buy. She went flat to me.
Mason was amazing.
I wanted to punch Bedelia.
I hated Freddie at first but she grew on me.
For the most part I really liked the whole story with Jack and Bella, and when Hannibal brings her back to life- so intense. And that slap!
The whole red dragon arc was great, but I have to say I was soo pumped to see the tiger scene (which was maybe my favorite scene in Manhunter) and hugely disappointed by it in the show. It just didn't have the same power to me.
I actually liked the "killer of the week" aspect of the first season (though some stories were weaker than others) and seeing Will's process in action with all of the different crazies. I thought the totem pole was awesome, and the fact that it was this old man's "legacy" was cool. And Tobias, that weirdo :lol
It was interesting to see some familiar faces and little nods to Fuller's other shows, like George from Dead Like Me being that Georgia girl with Cotard's Syndrome.
So good. Kinda sad it's over.
-
I didn't really like where things went with Alanna, and sort of found that hard to buy. She went flat to me.
I'd always fought to put my finger on how I felt about how Alanna 'evolved' after it all went down and you nailed it. She went flat....that's the perfect way to describe it. Like you said, it was hard to buy because prior to that her character was much more robust and multi dimensional.
I loved the series....am bummed that there seems to be nothing on the horizon to continue it. I think it'd have been neat to watch the entire story but what they gave us was pretty friggin' cool IMO.
-
Yeah, my understanding was they couldn't get the rights to Silence of the Lambs. Oh well.
And yeah, she went from lots of substance to just... meh. I didn't buy who she was supposed to be anymore, and her "badness" was so not exciting or believable.
-
Thoughts on the films:
1. Manhunter- I truly love this movie. From the mood, to the soundtrack to the cinematography. Will Peterson is fascinating as Graham and so is Tom Noone as the tooth fairy. I will without hesitation admit that Cox does not work as lector. Its just not what it needs to be, and that's not a slight against cox, since he is a great actor. It just is lacking. Other than that I pretty much worship this movie. This film is kind of the black sheep of the series for its lack of Hopkins, but if people dismiss it for that alone, they are missing out. And honestly if Hopkins would have been in this film at the time it was made, I think people would hold it in higher regard.
2. Silence- even though I am obsessed with manhunter, I will admit this is the best one. Manhunter is incredible to me, but it is missing hopkins lector, and Tony Hopkins is really what brings silence to the next level. Also, What is genius about this movie is how much it plays it strait. Its like I am watching a documentary, since it feels so real. The score is very subtle, as is the cinematography. It feels so real and that's what makes it terrifying, because there are these monsters in the real world. Its an actually real world threat. I love films with strong women, whether its Ripley, sarah connor or Clarice. And clarice fights for and earns her success. because she endured and overcame adversity, she earned my respect. Respect will not be given if unearned. She literally descends into the hell of Buffalo bills basement and emerges stronger than she was before and emerges to success and accomplishment. In short, I love this movie.
3. Hannibal- Highly entertaining, I won't take that away from it, but its kind of a joke IMO. The author of the series Thomas harris notoriously takes FOREVER to write his shit, but after the smash success of lambs. The studio pretty much put a gun to his head and was like "WE WANT NEW BOOK" and in a way I think Harris trolled them. Read the book and you find stuff like Cattle prod lesbian prostate milking sperm jacking and hypnotized clarice mischa madness and a corrupt FBI out to get Clarice. Wut... Its feels wildly removed from what we had before with Red dragon and lambs, which are way more down to earth and believable. Scott directs is in the theatrical and stylized manner and it feels like I am watching a movie. And This is where hopkins stopped feeling like lector too IMO. He's 10 years older so there's that, and he just doesn't feel the same. Moore does a decent job as starling, but its not foster. No one can capture that except foster. Foster had strength but mixed with kindness. Moore is kinda playing it as an alpha bitch, but whatever. Its still a very entertaining film. And where the fuck is crawford? He was one of my favorite characters and his absence is felt for sure.
- I would have preferred a film were clarice is still looking for lector, but must consult with will graham to get insight on how to catch him. So in a way, the two work together to catch him and maybe even just kill him once and for all. but what evs
4. Yeah, red dragon... Some people like it, I personally don't. I find this film dry and strait forward (which is typically of Ratner's directing) Elfman's score makes me feel like I'm in a nightmare before christmas... I think hopkins just wanted a payday since this is a FAR CRY from what he brought in Lambs, despite this being before lambs in the time line. He's looks tired and bored. And it feels like he's playing a caricature of lector instead of lector. Its just not the same. Also, a vital mistake is that since everybody gets wet for lector, the shoved him into more scenes to give the people what they want. And he overstays his welcome a little bit. That's the genius of lambs, he's literally in the film for like 10 mins seriously. But you leave the film unable to think about anything except hopkins performance. Sometimes less is more and in lambs he left you wanting more.
Norton is very wrong as Gramn. People want to bitch about hopkins not being in Manhunter, well I'm gonna bitch about peterson not being in Red Dragon. I would have loved to see will peterson and hopkins face to face in a red dragon film. I love edward norton, but I feel like he's miscast here. He's not tortured with the these serial killer thoughts in his head. He plays gramn like just some normal guy. WTF The gramn character is a person with a unique gift of being able to empathize with the the serial killer mindset, but this burden brings him to the breaking point, and everday that he works as an FBI agent, he rides the fine line of sanity and madness. I don't get that from Norton's performance. Now all that being said, I think ray fiennes does an incredible job. That's the films saving grace.
So if you actually read all that, Ty. I had to spill these thoughts onto the page. But anyway on to what all this is about:
Because of these films, and how much they have meant to me throughout my life, I am now actively preparing to apply to the FBI. Being an active member and contributor to the work of the behavior science unit is a new goal I would like to accomplish in my life.
-
There's a Clarice show now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsjoRzezy4I
I'll check it out for sure