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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: onnet5 on November 01, 2013, 02:14:48 PM
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Watched the bluray, enjoyed it, despite the disappointment I faced when the majority of Jordan's solos were barely audible. However the most glaring thing that stuck out to me is right at the beginning of the instrumental section of Outcry. I am convinced Labrie has already put the microphone to the side as he's walking back to his little room even though he's still belting out the final words of the vocal line. Anyone else notice this?
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Yikes...sounds extremely strange...
I haven't seen it yet so I can't comment on it, but are you sure he didn't have a heavy delay on his vocals and you are hearing the echo?
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Watched the bluray, enjoyed it, despite the disappointment I faced when the majority of Jordan's solos were barely audible. However the most glaring thing that stuck out to me is right at the beginning of the instrumental section of Outcry. I am convinced Labrie has already put the microphone to the side as he's walking back to his little room even though he's still belting out the final words of the vocal line. Anyone else notice this?
Haven't seen it, but JLB uses a TON of reverb on those extended live notes. He can still hit all the notes, but he definitely uses enough reverb to sustain them.
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using camera footage from a different night than the audio? ???
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Definitely not an echo effect. Only thing I could think of is that he only puts his microphone stand to the side and keeps his microphone. Having said that, when he hits those powerful notes his body language usually reflects that, however he's walking away casually.
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using camera footage from a different night than the audio? ???
Thought of that, could be the case.
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Hmm. Some LaBrie vocals were piped in during ADTOE shows. I mean, he was singing, but he also had himself as a backing track in some areas (like choruses). Not sure about on Outcry. Could that be it?
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Not on the line "you may stand upon my grave". ONLY on backing vocals. NO prerecorded main vocals of course.
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Jordan's solos were barely audible.
Judging from the the two clips I saw, these statements hold no water, especially regarding the solos. Is Jordan mixed a little low? Yes. Barely audible? Bwhaha, no. The bass drum is barely audible.
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Jordan's solos were barely audible.
Judging from the the two clips I saw, these statements hold no water, especially regarding the solos. Is Jordan mixed a little low? Yes. Barely audible? Bwhaha, no. The bass drum is barely audible.
Wait until you see him playing his keytar solo at the end of TDEN.
On that topic: I actually found Jordan became more audible towards the end of the concert.
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Jordan's solos were barely audible.
Judging from the the two clips I saw, these statements hold no water, especially regarding the solos. Is Jordan mixed a little low? Yes. Barely audible? Bwhaha, no. The bass drum is barely audible.
Wait until you see him playing his keytar solo at the end of TDEN.
On that topic: I actually found Jordan became more audible towards the end of the concert.
You mean the continuum solo? I don't mind that actually, I always saw that solo as an additional effect to that great groovy riff. The only place where it bothered me so far was in the OTBOA intro. John's acoustic tone shouldn't be louder than JR's synth. I guess I'll hear it for myself in a few days. For me, JR is probably DT's strongest asset, so it really looks bad, but I still don't think it's as bad as many people make it out to be.
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Haven't seen it yet since it's not out yet in the U.S., but a couple of possibilities come to mind:
1. As PC pointed out in his post, if it is just a situation where a James stops singing and the note continues, it could be reverb/delay exending the note a bit after he stops singing it. That is fairly common. I don't know if they using a backing tracks for James' vocals, but it could also be the delay from a backing track, as well.
2. Could be an audio/video sincing issue where the footage for that brief shot is either a second or two head of the audio or is footage from a different part of the show that was inserted there by mistake.
Hard to say more without having seen it to know what you are referring to.
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Jordan's solos were barely audible.
Judging from the the two clips I saw, these statements hold no water, especially regarding the solos. Is Jordan mixed a little low? Yes. Barely audible? Bwhaha, no. The bass drum is barely audible.
Wait until you see him playing his keytar solo at the end of TDEN.
On that topic: I actually found Jordan became more audible towards the end of the concert.
You mean the continuum solo? I don't mind that actually, I always saw that solo as an additional effect to that great groovy riff. The only place where it bothered me so far was in the OTBOA intro. John's acoustic tone shouldn't be louder than JR's synth. I guess I'll hear it for myself in a few days. For me, JR is probably DT's strongest asset, so it really looks bad, but I still don't think it's as bad as many people make it out to be.
No, the keytar solo...
You'll all see it once you watch it. The bluray is great on the whole by the way, and everyone performs fantastically. Just some minor niggles here and there that break some of the immersion.
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Hmm. Some LaBrie vocals were piped in during ADTOE shows. I mean, he was singing, but he also had himself as a backing track in some areas (like choruses). Not sure about on Outcry. Could that be it?
Interesting nugget of info. I'm actually very happy to hear this...I think that more bands should use programmed background vocals for chorus harmonies (or other sections) which cannot be achieved by the band members.
Do you know if they program them into JR's keyboard, so that he can trigger the background vocals with a key stroke? I always presumed that this would be one way to do this, but have always wondered if it was correct.
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Jordan's solos were barely audible.
Judging from the the two clips I saw, these statements hold no water, especially regarding the solos. Is Jordan mixed a little low? Yes. Barely audible? Bwhaha, no. The bass drum is barely audible.
Wait until you see him playing his keytar solo at the end of TDEN.
On that topic: I actually found Jordan became more audible towards the end of the concert.
You mean the continuum solo? I don't mind that actually, I always saw that solo as an additional effect to that great groovy riff. The only place where it bothered me so far was in the OTBOA intro. John's acoustic tone shouldn't be louder than JR's synth. I guess I'll hear it for myself in a few days. For me, JR is probably DT's strongest asset, so it really looks bad, but I still don't think it's as bad as many people make it out to be.
No, the keytar solo...
You'll all see it once you watch it. The bluray is great on the whole by the way, and everyone performs fantastically. Just some minor niggles here and there that break some of the immersion.
I didn't even know TDEN had a keytar solo. No matter, I don't even like the keytar ever since Ryo Okumoto threw one right into my face on a SB concert a few months back. :lol
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Jordan's solos were barely audible.
Judging from the the two clips I saw, these statements hold no water, especially regarding the solos. Is Jordan mixed a little low? Yes. Barely audible? Bwhaha, no. The bass drum is barely audible.
Wait until you see him playing his keytar solo at the end of TDEN.
On that topic: I actually found Jordan became more audible towards the end of the concert.
You mean the continuum solo? I don't mind that actually, I always saw that solo as an additional effect to that great groovy riff. The only place where it bothered me so far was in the OTBOA intro. John's acoustic tone shouldn't be louder than JR's synth. I guess I'll hear it for myself in a few days. For me, JR is probably DT's strongest asset, so it really looks bad, but I still don't think it's as bad as many people make it out to be.
No, the keytar solo...
You'll all see it once you watch it. The bluray is great on the whole by the way, and everyone performs fantastically. Just some minor niggles here and there that break some of the immersion.
I didn't even know TDEN had a keytar solo. No matter, I don't even like the keytar ever since Ryo Okumoto threw one right into my face on a SB concert a few months back. :lol
It's not in the studio version. It's a little improvisational piece Jordan does at the end of the song where he would normally use the continuum.
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I was gonna comment on this. Theres another moment after the first verse in LNF. Someone shouts WHOA and it sounds like James but the mic is back on the stand. I went back to see if it was JP but hes nowhere near his mic stand.
Loads of glaring issue on this release though. Another one springing to mind is that fact that it just is NOT JP doing the backing vox on TDEN.
Colour me disappointed actually :(
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No, actually, it's a Zen Riffer solo. Jordan doesn't play a keytar and has NEVER done so in Dream Theater.
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No, actually, it's a Zen Riffer solo. Jordan doesn't play a keytar and has NEVER done so in Dream Theater.
"A keytar is a keyboard or synthesizer hung around the neck and shoulders, similar to a guitar." Fits the definition for me. Sounds a tad less ridiculous than Solo Axe, too. :p
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Yes, and both a guitar and banjo are "stringed instruments that are hung around the neck and tupically strummed or plucked." But they still are not the same thing.
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Yes, and both a guitar and banjo are "stringed instruments that are hung around the neck and tupically strummed or plucked." But they still are not the same thing.
https://youtu.be/szRTDfSDhME?t=24s
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Just seen the part OP was referring too. Hes definitely left the stage while the note carries on haha
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Loads of glaring issue on this release though. Another one springing to mind is that fact that it just is NOT JP doing the backing vox on TDEN.
Colour me disappointed actually :(
I'm almost positive that it's Mike Portnoy. But it would have been that way had you been there, too, since they're using triggered backing vocals in their live shows now.
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I think they did cut in some footage/audio from the second night, because I'm relistening to the live chat from earlier and JP says there were some light issues that made them use footage from the various nights in the main set (or at least that is what I got out of it. He talks about it about 10 minutes in to the chat).
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Yeah, that's understandable. For those who may think it's a simple thing to put one of these together, he's just a SMALL behind-the-scenes look at what it is like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-BBaQAecHI
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Yeah, that's understandable. For those who may think it's a simple thing to put one of these together, he's just a SMALL behind-the-scenes look at what it is like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-BBaQAecHI
Thanks for the link! Good watch. It really provides a great insight into the making of LaLP.
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Yes, and both a guitar and banjo are "stringed instruments that are hung around the neck and tupically strummed or plucked." But they still are not the same thing.
Two very different things. What are the differences between a Zen Riffer and a Keytar other than the maker of a Zen Riffer chose to call it a Zen Riffer.
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I haven't seen the DVD yet, but I'll point out that the compression they apply to vocals to keep it all level can give the impression of it lasting when it looks like the mic is moving away. As someone else mentioned, reverb/delay will also lengthen notes.
Without seeing the video, those are just generalizations of course. :)
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No, actually, it's a Zen Riffer solo. Jordan doesn't play a keytar and has NEVER done so in Dream Theater.
Isn't that the same as saying a stratocaster and a guitar are different things? A Zen Riffer is a brand of keytar... :\
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Any keyboard that has a strap for it to be carried around like a guitar is ... a keytar.
Even the Wikipedia page lists it as a keytar.
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Discussion whether the Zen Riffer is a keytar or not.
I think I liked the "every album is a concept album" discussion better. Or "Awake" is about Spiderman, for that matter.
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From what you people write, the DVD must be really a failure. TDEN with Mike Portnoy vocals? What a shame. He's not in the band anymore and still.. they use him.
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It's not MP. it's some unrecognizable voice. I'll hear it clearer once I have the DVD, but yes they used tracks for the backing vocals on the last tour, and no they were not MP's voice.
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The two shows I saw on that tour when they played TDEN, that's definitely JP's "growl" or whatever but it looked funny like it was a backing track.
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I remember this discussion during the tour, but I can't remember what if anything DTF decided on the matter at the time. I checked out some live bootlegs of other shows from the tour, and I unfortunately can't tell anything from them, so I'll have to wait until I have it.
I'd be very surprised if they're using MP's backing vocals though. That would open too many cans of worms.
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I remember this discussion during the tour, but I can't remember what if anything DTF decided on the matter at the time. I checked out some live bootlegs of other shows from the tour, and I unfortunately can't tell anything from them, so I'll have to wait until I have it.
I'd be very surprised if they're using MP's backing vocals though. That would open too many cans of worms.
I think in many parts the backing vocals are just playback and JP does the Alex Lifeson thing, where he just moves his mouth (or sings without the microphone turned on), even in bootlegs the backing vocals are always perfect, and i don't think that in two years JP improved so much.
Also in some videos from the tour JP seems so cool while singing, while on all the previous tours he seemed very concentrated in order to play and sing at the same time.
This is speculation from my part, but i honestly highly doubt that JP sings all the backing vocals, there is some playback with James' vocals, so maybe these are the same tracks with JP's vocals.
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I remember this discussion during the tour, but I can't remember what if anything DTF decided on the matter at the time. I checked out some live bootlegs of other shows from the tour, and I unfortunately can't tell anything from them, so I'll have to wait until I have it.
I'd be very surprised if they're using MP's backing vocals though. That would open too many cans of worms.
I think in many parts the backing vocals are just playback and JP does the Alex Lifeson thing, where he just moves his mouth (or sings without the microphone turned on), even in bootlegs the backing vocals are always perfect, and i don't think that in two years JP improved so much.
Also in some videos from the tour JP seems so cool while singing, while on all the previous tours he seemed very concentrated in order to play and sing at the same time.
This is speculation from my part, but i honestly highly doubt that JP sings all the backing vocals, there is some playback with James' vocals, so maybe these are the same tracks with JP's vocals.
From watching bootlegs a while back, at least some of JP's backing vocals were backing tracks, because I could hear them when he wasn't even at the mic (that may have even been for the chorus of TDEN).
I don't mind backup vocals being done that way though. It's pretty common these days, and in the past I believe JP/MP dubbed their vocals for the live releases anyway. JP isn't the lead vocalist, and it's not his main role, and it's representative of what was heard on the tour. And in any form, I enjoy hearing JP's vocals contrasting with JLB's. Hopefully the PMU clip isn't indicative of the rest of the show in that regard.
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I really wish they'd drop stuff like backing vocals and click tracks altogether. I don't want them to sound live just like in the studio. I enjoy me some rawness and speeding up.
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There's definitely backing tracks going on for backing vocals where JP is just miming, albeit unconvincingly.
I'd like to retract what I said earlier about Jordan being inaudible in some of his solos. I've since listened to it using headphones and I found the mix to be better, so perhaps I have some tweaking to do on my speaker setup. He's still a little low but it's not as bad as I initially thought.
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The only problem I have with LALP so far is that it looks way too bright and shiny to be a live rock DVD.
I don't mean in an HD way - It looks like X factor or something.
Maybe i'm used to much more moody lighting in live DVDs.
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The only problem I have with LALP so far is that it looks way too bright and shiny to be a live rock DVD.
I don't mean in an HD way - It looks like X factor or something.
Maybe i'm used to much more moody lighting in live DVDs.
I really like the lighting on the PSMS DVD. Reminds me of Budokan.
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I remember this discussion during the tour, but I can't remember what if anything DTF decided on the matter at the time. I checked out some live bootlegs of other shows from the tour, and I unfortunately can't tell anything from them, so I'll have to wait until I have it.
I'd be very surprised if they're using MP's backing vocals though. That would open too many cans of worms.
I think in many parts the backing vocals are just playback and JP does the Alex Lifeson thing, where he just moves his mouth (or sings without the microphone turned on), even in bootlegs the backing vocals are always perfect, and i don't think that in two years JP improved so much.
Actually, Alex always sings, and always with the mic on, but they are so low in the mix that you usually cannot hear them (plus, they are often underneath a Geddy background vocal that might be triggered at the same time, and is therefore louder as well). Which is good, cause Alex singing is not something we really want to hear. :lol
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Actually, Alex always sings, and always with the mic on, but they are so low in the mix that you usually cannot hear them (plus, they are often underneath a Geddy background vocal that might be triggered at the same time, and is therefore louder as well). Which is good, cause Alex singing is not something we really want to hear. :lol
Subdivisions.
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The only problem I have with LALP so far is that it looks way too bright and shiny to be a live rock DVD.
I don't mean in an HD way - It looks like X factor or something.
Maybe i'm used to much more moody lighting in live DVDs.
Not brighter than Score, I'd have to say. Score is, probably, the brightest metal DVD I own (in terms of lightning, obviously).
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Not brighter than Score, I'd have to say. Score is, probably, the brightest metal DVD I own (in terms of lightning, obviously).
Woah, JP was playing fast, but not that fast!
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Not brighter than Score, I'd have to say. Score is, probably, the brightest metal DVD I own (in terms of lightning, obviously).
Woah, JP was playing fast, but not that fast!
Indeed. In 2006 JP's speed caused an electromagnetic emission in the wavelenght of visible light, hence the bightness of Score. Six year later he had refined his technique and augmented his speed so much that his emission ha completely trascended into the blue end of the spectrum, hence the abundant blue in the lights and the Blu-Ray format of the release.
You see? Everything fits. :xbones
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I love it when you get all physic-sy and stuff. :lol
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I really wish they'd drop stuff like backing vocals and click tracks altogether. I don't want them to sound live just like in the studio. I enjoy me some rawness and speeding up.
Are they really using click tracks? Is this confirmed? I watched the Bluray yesterday and thought to myself that it's got to be hard playing some of their music to click tracks. And I don't see the point considering that they have a human metronome in the band;)
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I love it when you get all physic-sy and stuff. :lol
You can do that as well! Just reverse the polarity of the neutron flow! :biggrin:
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I really wish they'd drop stuff like backing vocals and click tracks altogether. I don't want them to sound live just like in the studio. I enjoy me some rawness and speeding up.
Are they really using click tracks? Is this confirmed? I watched the Bluray yesterday and thought to myself that it's got to be hard playing some of their music to click tracks. And I don't see the point considering that they have a human metronome in the band;)
If I recall, only MM hears the click tracks. MM counts the rest of the band in with an invisible cowbell.
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I really wish they'd drop stuff like backing vocals and click tracks altogether. I don't want them to sound live just like in the studio. I enjoy me some rawness and speeding up.
Are they really using click tracks? Is this confirmed? I watched the Bluray yesterday and thought to myself that it's got to be hard playing some of their music to click tracks. And I don't see the point considering that they have a human metronome in the band;)
Yes they are. I think it has been confirmed in a few interviews but Mike Mangini told me personally when I met him. He was talking about how all of the songs would be "album tempo" and he actually sounded kinda psyched. I had to take a moment to think of what he was talking about because I've never heard of someone refer to it as "album tempo". I think one of the things he and the band were enthusiastic about was keeping the performances consistent.
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One thing I've always loved about live releases is that they were a lot faster and more energetic than the album versions. ELP were just crazy back in the days (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xrp_0z0bA8), but it applies even more to some newer metal recordings. With a polished and technical band as DT, I can surely understand this approach, but it doesn't please me.
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One thing I've always loved about live releases is that they were a lot faster and more energetic than the album versions. ELP were just crazy back in the days (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xrp_0z0bA8), but it applies even more to some newer metal recordings. With a polished and technical band as DT, I can surely understand this approach, but it doesn't please me.
I think JP wants to play "The Glass Prison" at regular speed to hit the notes well, and not go into hyperdrive mode...whichleads me to believe why he bulked up, now he can reach super sayan mode with ease.
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I am LOVING how everything is at album tempo every night. Mangini has been a fantastic impact on this band for things like that.
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One thing I've always loved about live releases is that they were a lot faster and more energetic than the album versions. ELP were just crazy back in the days (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xrp_0z0bA8), but it applies even more to some newer metal recordings. With a polished and technical band as DT, I can surely understand this approach, but it doesn't please me.
I think JP wants to play "The Glass Prison" at regular speed to hit the notes well, and not go into hyperdrive mode...whichleads me to believe why he bulked up, now he can reach super sayan mode with ease.
I'd be (the most pleasantly) surprised if they ever put TGP back on the setlist.
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I´ve noticed the lack of sync between audio and video also on I Walk BEside You from Score. Could it be an overdub?
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I´ve noticed the lack of sync between audio and video also on I Walk BEside You from Score. Could it be an overdub?
Not sure what part you are talking about, but as far as being any overdub, I don't think so. From my understanding, there was VERY little overdubbing on that show, other than fixing the part in UAGM when JP's guitar went out (which they pretty much had to fix). If it's off, I would guess it is probably just a syncing issue (the audio and video not being exactly synced with one another at that part).
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Actually, Alex always sings, and always with the mic on, but they are so low in the mix that you usually cannot hear them (plus, they are often underneath a Geddy background vocal that might be triggered at the same time, and is therefore louder as well). Which is good, cause Alex singing is not something we really want to hear. :lol
Subdivisions.
That is a spoken word, not singing. :biggrin:
But okay, that is probably the one exception. :lol
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Actually, Alex always sings, and always with the mic on, but they are so low in the mix that you usually cannot hear them (plus, they are often underneath a Geddy background vocal that might be triggered at the same time, and is therefore louder as well). Which is good, cause Alex singing is not something we really want to hear. :lol
Subdivisions.
That is a spoken word, not singing. :biggrin:
But okay, that is probably the one exception. :lol
What about geddy messing around and liping the "do's" in Earthshine.
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One thing I've always loved about live releases is that they were a lot faster and more energetic than the album versions. ELP were just crazy back in the days (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xrp_0z0bA8), but it applies even more to some newer metal recordings. With a polished and technical band as DT, I can surely understand this approach, but it doesn't please me.
Agreed. The performances on DT's studio recordings are so perfect, that I kinda look forward to hearing the live renditions. Even though they were always kind of "note for note", live DT often featured just a tiny bit of sloppiness and extra energy that made the band extremely fun to watch. With that said, the two videos we've seen from LALP thus far just feel so perfect for me, so they're probably not different enough from their studio counterparts to really warrant me ever listening to standalone audio.
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One thing I've always loved about live releases is that they were a lot faster and more energetic than the album versions. ELP were just crazy back in the days (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xrp_0z0bA8), but it applies even more to some newer metal recordings. With a polished and technical band as DT, I can surely understand this approach, but it doesn't please me.
Agreed. The performances on DT's studio recordings are so perfect, that I kinda look forward to hearing the live renditions. Even though they were always kind of "note for note", live DT often featured just a tiny bit of sloppiness and extra energy that made the band extremely fun to watch. With that said, the two videos we've seen from LALP thus far just feel so perfect for me, so they're probably not different enough from their studio counterparts to really warrant me ever listening to standalone audio.
Tiny sloppyness and impromptu happenings have not been magically erased from DT's live catalogue after 2011, and I'm sorry to notice that you must have missed many if not all of them (clearly I am talking about watching youtube videos or bootlegs, no-one can attend every show). Still, the little accidents like JP knocking JLB on the floor and then joining him for the rest of the solo are not a priority for the band when it comes to creating a testimony of the tour cycle.
As for the extra energy, I'm not sure what your frame of reference is, but I can tell you that I saw them live in 2012 and watched multiple time the recording that was made of that night, and even without the judgement-altering excitement of the moment, I can tell you that the band delivered exceptionally, and the same can be said about all the video recordings I have of this tour, Luna Park included. So, yeah, it's likely a frame of reference issue here :lol
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One thing I've always loved about live releases is that they were a lot faster and more energetic than the album versions. ELP were just crazy back in the days (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xrp_0z0bA8), but it applies even more to some newer metal recordings. With a polished and technical band as DT, I can surely understand this approach, but it doesn't please me.
Agreed. The performances on DT's studio recordings are so perfect, that I kinda look forward to hearing the live renditions. Even though they were always kind of "note for note", live DT often featured just a tiny bit of sloppiness and extra energy that made the band extremely fun to watch. With that said, the two videos we've seen from LALP thus far just feel so perfect for me, so they're probably not different enough from their studio counterparts to really warrant me ever listening to standalone audio.
I mostly agree, although the ADTOE songs are exceptions to me, because LALP has a better mix, and more energy than ADTOE does, even at the same tempo.
PMU feels a little lacking when stuck at album tempo compared to say the Budokan version (aside from JLB, who is sounding a lot better than on Budokan!)
I've never been much for live albums anyway, so this one is more for the visuals than the audio for me.
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I mostly agree, although the ADTOE songs are exceptions to me, because LALP has a better mix, and more energy than ADTOE does, even at the same tempo.
PMU feels a little lacking when stuck at album tempo compared to say the Budokan version (aside from JLB, who is sounding a lot better than on Budokan!)
I've never been much for live albums anyway, so this one is more for the visuals than the audio for me.
Good point. I'm not a huge fan of OTBOA, but I'm definitely interested to hear the other ADTOE renditions. Too bad the DVD doesn't feature more Black Clouds and Systematic Chaos. We really need good live versions of those songs, whereas for the earlier stuff, there's already definitive versions on Score, Budokan, or LSFNY.
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I´ve noticed the lack of sync between audio and video also on I Walk BEside You from Score. Could it be an overdub?
Not sure what part you are talking about, but as far as being any overdub, I don't think so. From my understanding, there was VERY little overdubbing on that show, other than fixing the part in UAGM when JP's guitar went out (which they pretty much had to fix). If it's off, I would guess it is probably just a syncing issue (the audio and video not being exactly synced with one another at that part).
Look carefully at "think you can't be saved" and the last "whatever it takes". I think more was dubbed or tuned of that show than what most people think.
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I´ve noticed the lack of sync between audio and video also on I Walk BEside You from Score. Could it be an overdub?
Not sure what part you are talking about, but as far as being any overdub, I don't think so. From my understanding, there was VERY little overdubbing on that show, other than fixing the part in UAGM when JP's guitar went out (which they pretty much had to fix). If it's off, I would guess it is probably just a syncing issue (the audio and video not being exactly synced with one another at that part).
Look carefully at "think you can't be saved" and the last "whatever it takes". I think more was dubbed or tuned of that show than what most people think.
My ears are not well trained enough to pick up all overdubs, but I´m sure there are other examples in DT´s catalogue. If only they fixed Once in a Livetime a little bit...
And hey guys, please do not take offense when we talk about overdubs. If the best metal singer on the planet, Mr. Paul Bruce Dickinson can do it, so can JLB!
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I've solved the video footage error, and it's most bizarre. On the bluray version there's a bonus feature which has a multi-angle version of Outcry. If you watch this version, namely on camera 1, you will see James sing "Though you may stand upon my grave" exactly as the audio suggests on the main version, however he's in a completely different position on stage from the version on the main disc. This leads me to believe the audio is used from the multi-angle version whereas the footage is from the other night (this could also explain sync issues). What I find absolutely bizarre is that BOTH nights worth of footage for Outcry are on the disc, yet they chose to use video footage from another night on the main disc.
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I really wish they'd drop stuff like backing vocals and click tracks altogether. I don't want them to sound live just like in the studio. I enjoy me some rawness and speeding up.
Are they really using click tracks? Is this confirmed? I watched the Bluray yesterday and thought to myself that it's got to be hard playing some of their music to click tracks. And I don't see the point considering that they have a human metronome in the band;)
Yes they are. I think it has been confirmed in a few interviews but Mike Mangini told me personally when I met him. He was talking about how all of the songs would be "album tempo" and he actually sounded kinda psyched. I had to take a moment to think of what he was talking about because I've never heard of someone refer to it as "album tempo". I think one of the things he and the band were enthusiastic about was keeping the performances consistent.
Can you point me to any of these interviews? I'm not mistrusting you or anything, but I can't remember that i've seen it in any interview before.
And, "album tempo" and click tracks are by definition two different things, even if click tracks helps out with playing at album tempo. It could mean that they use clicks only as a count-in to set the tempo for the rest of the song. Did he actually say that they used click tracks?
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I just took the live clip of OTBOA off Youtube, and lined it up side by side with the studio version, and it syncs up dead perfectly for the entire song.
I'd upload it, except I'm pretty sure it would be against the forum rules to post unofficial links to both the studio track and live track at the same time. :lol
Easy enough for anyone to check for themselves first hand if they're interested though.
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I just took the live clip of OTBOA off Youtube, and lined it up side by side with the studio version, and it syncs up dead perfectly for the entire song.
I'd upload it, except I'm pretty sure it would be against the forum rules to post unofficial links to both the studio track and live track at the same time. :lol
Easy enough for anyone to check for themselves first hand if they're interested though.
Since both versions of OTBOA were officially released on YouTube, I doubt it would constitute a forum rule violation.
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Interesting! I wonder if all of them line up like that
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I just took the live clip of OTBOA off Youtube, and lined it up side by side with the studio version, and it syncs up dead perfectly for the entire song.
I'd upload it, except I'm pretty sure it would be against the forum rules to post unofficial links to both the studio track and live track at the same time. :lol
Easy enough for anyone to check for themselves first hand if they're interested though.
Is this surprising? I thought DT's use of click-tracks to keep live performances at album tempo was well-known.
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I just took the live clip of OTBOA off Youtube, and lined it up side by side with the studio version, and it syncs up dead perfectly for the entire song.
I'd upload it, except I'm pretty sure it would be against the forum rules to post unofficial links to both the studio track and live track at the same time. :lol
Easy enough for anyone to check for themselves first hand if they're interested though.
Is this surprising? I thought DT's use of click-tracks to keep live performances at album tempo was well-known.
That's since Mangini, though. In their Portnoy live shows, they played without a click and usually a tad faster.
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Okay, so there's a part in Bridges in the Sky where something James does makes no sense, and he isn't shown on camera while it happens. Anyone else hear it?
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I just took the live clip of OTBOA off Youtube, and lined it up side by side with the studio version, and it syncs up dead perfectly for the entire song.
I'd upload it, except I'm pretty sure it would be against the forum rules to post unofficial links to both the studio track and live track at the same time. :lol
Easy enough for anyone to check for themselves first hand if they're interested though.
Is this surprising? I thought DT's use of click-tracks to keep live performances at album tempo was well-known.
No, it's not surprising, I've been pretty certain of it since the tour started, I just know it's been debated a little bit, and was just being discussed, so I thought I'd bring it up. No big deal. :tup
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I immediately noticed the weird thing in Outcry that the OP talked about . :rollin
Crazy that the editors/band didn't really do anything about it.
I'm not a video editor or anything but they should have chose a shot that didn't feature Labrie at that part or something.
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I immediately noticed the weird thing in Outcry that the OP talked about . :rollin
Crazy that the editors/band didn't really do anything about it.
I'm not a video editor or anything but they should have chose a shot that didn't feature Labrie at that part or something.
Reminds me of the spot in the Budokan Instrumedley multi-angle where you can see JM mess up a section and stop playing, although in that case, they had no alternative footage.
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I just took the live clip of OTBOA off Youtube, and lined it up side by side with the studio version, and it syncs up dead perfectly for the entire song.
I'd upload it, except I'm pretty sure it would be against the forum rules to post unofficial links to both the studio track and live track at the same time. :lol
Easy enough for anyone to check for themselves first hand if they're interested though.
Is this surprising? I thought DT's use of click-tracks to keep live performances at album tempo was well-known.
No, it's not surprising, I've been pretty certain of it since the tour started, I just know it's been debated a little bit, and was just being discussed, so I thought I'd bring it up. No big deal. :tup
No big deal at all, and you're probably right about it top (those versions of OTBOA lined up quite well). But to me, it isn't a "known fact" until it's confirmed by the band in a way or another. It's all about validating facts, uptil then were only assuming..
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I just took the live clip of OTBOA off Youtube, and lined it up side by side with the studio version, and it syncs up dead perfectly for the entire song.
I'd upload it, except I'm pretty sure it would be against the forum rules to post unofficial links to both the studio track and live track at the same time. :lol
Easy enough for anyone to check for themselves first hand if they're interested though.
Is this surprising? I thought DT's use of click-tracks to keep live performances at album tempo was well-known.
No, it's not surprising, I've been pretty certain of it since the tour started, I just know it's been debated a little bit, and was just being discussed, so I thought I'd bring it up. No big deal. :tup
No big deal at all, and you're probably right about it top (those versions of OTBOA lined up quite well). But to me, it isn't a "known fact" until it's confirmed by the band in a way or another. It's all about validating facts, uptil then were only assuming..
Something doesn't have to be confirmed by the band to be a fact, however I do remember them mentioning at the start of the tour about using click tracks, although that was over 2 years ago, so I can't recall which of the 1000 interviews it was in! I'll have to get Jaffa on the case.
A lot of bands do it these days, because it allows you to sync up backing tracks for background vocals (which DT do for vocal parts that can't be recreated live, such as the BMUBMU chorus, and 3 part harmonies, for which a click track is necessary), and it allows the video and lighting show to more effectively complement the music. Given how well received the ADTOE tour was, it was a good decision.
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I just took the live clip of OTBOA off Youtube, and lined it up side by side with the studio version, and it syncs up dead perfectly for the entire song.
I'd upload it, except I'm pretty sure it would be against the forum rules to post unofficial links to both the studio track and live track at the same time. :lol
Easy enough for anyone to check for themselves first hand if they're interested though.
Is this surprising? I thought DT's use of click-tracks to keep live performances at album tempo was well-known.
No, it's not surprising, I've been pretty certain of it since the tour started, I just know it's been debated a little bit, and was just being discussed, so I thought I'd bring it up. No big deal. :tup
No big deal at all, and you're probably right about it top (those versions of OTBOA lined up quite well). But to me, it isn't a "known fact" until it's confirmed by the band in a way or another. It's all about validating facts, uptil then were only assuming..
Something doesn't have to be confirmed by the band to be a fact, however I do remember them mentioning at the start of the tour about using click tracks, although that was over 2 years ago, so I can't recall which of the 1000 interviews it was in! I'll have to get Jaffa on the case.
A lot of bands do it these days, because it allows you to sync up backing tracks for background vocals (which DT do for vocal parts that can't be recreated live, such as the BMUBMU chorus, and 3 part harmonies, for which a click track is necessary), and it allows the video and lighting show to more effectively complement the music. Given how well received the ADTOE tour was, it was a good decision.
Well, no it doesn't have to be confirmed by the band, but it would be nice...in a way.
Yeah, I think that it is a good decision. It CAN ruin a live performance though, if you can't handle it, but it seems that DT can handle it very well.
When you mention it, there are quite few parts in DT's songs that needs or at least get's better with click. The soft section@3.01 in Outcry (James+Jordan) and comes to mind, for example.
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Here are my thoughts regarding Live at Luna Park.
The Good
1. The background vocal issue: I believe that with the exception of a couple of songs where it's clearly JP singing backup, they've used a tape of JLB to double his vocal. Its definitely not MP. I think it's JLB doing his version of the MP growl.
2. The concert: IMO it's by far the best concert they've recorded and released. Much better than Budokan. The drumming is amazing and every single solo piece in the show (drums, piano and guitar) is mind blowing. Every song they played came off perfectly. I didn't see any glaring audio goofs, or syncing issues. JLB had clearly upped his game here. His performance shines like the sun on this one.
3. The Lighting: This is definitely a beautiful concert that, among all of the band's live releases, deserves blu ray the most. Everything was clear and sharp, beautifully presented.
The Not so Good
1. The Documentary: This is where I felt MPs absence the most. He was really good at documenting the life of the band on the road. His energy and in your face spontaneity is definitely lacking here. I didn't find the documentary at all informative. There was nothing new in what was presented. Really, aside from the dinner before the show, it was just a condensed version of the drummer auditions. (btw, I love that mangini-ing is now a verb :lol)
2. Behind the Scenes: Why was this separated from the documentary? Its all a part of putting the show together. I just don't get it, I guess.
3. Bonus Songs: Why did they have bonus songs? Shouldn't they have been left in place in the concert's playlist? I don't understand why the producers didn't just shoot the songs as they were played in the show? I know it was a two night shoot, but there had to be a way to leave them in the concert without making you go back to the main menu to access them.
Overall Reaction
Do I think it was worth the money? Hell yes! As I said, I think this is the best concert video they've ever released. What I don't understand was the delay in releasing it. After seeing the show and the documentary and the behind the scenes footage, I don't really see what caused the delay. I suppose it was the editing. There is a lot of shots to put into a coherent sequence. I thought the band really came across as a family. The communication and eye contact with each other was fantastic! The performances were incredible. I'm glad I picked this up.
Final Grades
Concert: A+
Documentary: C-
Extras: D
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2. The concert: IMO it's by far the best concert they've recorded and released. Much better than Budokan. The drumming is amazing and every single solo piece in the show (drums, piano and guitar) is mind blowing. Every song they played came off perfectly. I didn't see any glaring audio goofs, or syncing issues. JLB had clearly upped his game here. His performance shines like the sun on this one.
What about the sound of the concert, was it as sterile as a few has commented on? Was the audience very low in the mix, like barely audible?
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2. The concert: IMO it's by far the best concert they've recorded and released. Much better than Budokan. The drumming is amazing and every single solo piece in the show (drums, piano and guitar) is mind blowing. Every song they played came off perfectly. I didn't see any glaring audio goofs, or syncing issues. JLB had clearly upped his game here. His performance shines like the sun on this one.
What about the sound of the concert, was it as sterile as a few has commented on? Was the audience very low in the mix, like barely audible?
I'd say that it was a bit sterile, but nothing too bad. The audience was pretty low in the mix but can't say that it was "barely audible". Soundwise There wasn't really any problems IMO, except for the breathing sounds in the beginning of TSCO.
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The audience is the biggest bizarro moment of the full thing. They're like... inaudible, even when they're chanting. And overall, they don't appear to be the stereotypical South American crowd, but more like the stereotypical DT crowd of terra cotta soldiers.
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The audience is the biggest bizarro moment of the full thing. They're like... inaudible, even when they're chanting. And overall, they don't appear to be the stereotypical South American crowd, but more like the stereotypical DT crowd of terra cotta soldiers.
Yeah. Also after watching a lot of it last night, JR and JM really got bent over in the mix - I mean REALLY bent over, as in their faces are looking backwards between their ankles.
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The audience is the biggest bizarro moment of the full thing. They're like... inaudible, even when they're chanting. And overall, they don't appear to be the stereotypical South American crowd, but more like the stereotypical DT crowd of terra cotta soldiers.
I'm almost certain that the latter is down to the show being all-seated.
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The audience is the biggest bizarro moment of the full thing. They're like... inaudible, even when they're chanting. And overall, they don't appear to be the stereotypical South American crowd, but more like the stereotypical DT crowd of terra cotta soldiers.
Yeah. Also after watching a lot of it last night, JR and JM really got bent over in the mix - I mean REALLY bent over, as in their faces are looking backwards between their ankles.
Disagreed. Like I said earlier, I tried listening to the 5.1 and couldn't get a sound I liked, so I changed my system and speakers to stereo, and it sounded GREAT! John Myung and Jordan were very audible for the whole thing.
I highly recommend people try messing with their 5.1 systems. Otherwise, try stereo. It works very well.
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The audience is the biggest bizarro moment of the full thing. They're like... inaudible, even when they're chanting. And overall, they don't appear to be the stereotypical South American crowd, but more like the stereotypical DT crowd of terra cotta soldiers.
Yeah. Also after watching a lot of it last night, JR and JM really got bent over in the mix - I mean REALLY bent over, as in their faces are looking backwards between their ankles.
Disagreed. Like I said earlier, I tried listening to the 5.1 and couldn't get a sound I liked, so I changed my system and speakers to stereo, and it sounded GREAT! John Myung and Jordan were very audible for the whole thing.
I highly recommend people try messing with their 5.1 systems. Otherwise, try stereo. It works very well.
I heard it on my 5.1 surround system and I thought it sounded great. The audience is not very audible for the most part, except when songs ended and there was a moment or two of cheering. Chanting was non existent. It was strange, I knew where they should be chanting, saw JLB trying to get them more animated, but all I saw was their arms raised and pumping along with him. Overall the audience was not what I would have expected from South America. I watch Iron Maiden En Vivo... Now that's some south american chanting and excitement.
Oh, and... after seeing it in context, the crying girl is really kinda moving to me. When I saw it my thought was that she'd lost someone really close to her, and TSCO reminded her of that person. At one point she looked like she was praying, having a religious experience. Like she'd found God in JP's playing. It was a rather touching and beautiful moment in the show. :tup
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The audience is the biggest bizarro moment of the full thing. They're like... inaudible, even when they're chanting. And overall, they don't appear to be the stereotypical South American crowd, but more like the stereotypical DT crowd of terra cotta soldiers.
Yeah. Also after watching a lot of it last night, JR and JM really got bent over in the mix - I mean REALLY bent over, as in their faces are looking backwards between their ankles.
Disagreed. Like I said earlier, I tried listening to the 5.1 and couldn't get a sound I liked, so I changed my system and speakers to stereo, and it sounded GREAT! John Myung and Jordan were very audible for the whole thing.
I highly recommend people try messing with their 5.1 systems. Otherwise, try stereo. It works very well.
I switched to stereo for the last 1 or 2 songs, and agree it sounded better. Still don't think the bass and keys were prominent enough but then again my system is nothing to write home about . . .
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I'm gonna ask this here. Am I blind or is there not a thread dedicated to discussing Luna Park in general?
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Reviving this thread to ask a question. I have the Luna Park Blu Ray which is stellar but I also purchased it from the iTunes store at around the same time as when it first came out. I decided to watch it again a few days ago and noticed that the digital version from iTunes has a audio/video sync issue. The video lags the actual music by a half second or so (no way to actually time this). Has anyone else noticed this?