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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Tick on October 21, 2013, 11:24:17 AM
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Is it even possible that no one started a thread was maybe the best song on the album? :justjen
In any event, I couldn't find one so here is one.
I have heard it said that this song has a Rush vibe to it. I would give that tag to Surrender To Reason.
This opening riff sounds like a riff Eddie Van Halen would have played on 5150. That's what I think of anyhow.
Anyhow. I don't know why no thread for this track besides an acoustic one? For shame doc, for shame.
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This is currently my favorite from the new album but I reserve the right to change my mind tomorrow. Whenever it comes up on rotation I must adjust the volume knob up and sing along!
I'm very glad we're having this discussion. ;)
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The track I always end up getting back to. James' vocals truly shine in the chorus.
As for the Rush vibe, melodically, lyrically and structurally speaking, it is quite reminescent of "Limelight"...which is not a bad thing!
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Great song. It's really grown on me since my 1st listen, and now I think its one of the best on the album.
And you might want to change Thead to Thread :lol
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I was struck with awe since the first listen. This song is just glorious!! :hefdaddy
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Yeah, but does anyone else hear the opening riff as an Eddie Van Halen riff?
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Definitely the best song on the album in my opinion.
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This was the first song I heard on DT12 aside from the singles.
I'll never forget...I was so excited to hear another song from the album. It was a day before DT streamed DT12.
On my first listen, I was extremely disappointed. I said to myself, "There's no way I'll ever like this song, as much as I want to and as hard as I try."
I wanted to like it so bad, so I kept listening to it.
It wasn't until last week that it finally clicked, and now I think it's awesome!
JP's riffing and tone sound amazing. The main riff sounds so lush and big. Chocolate cake. It has a vibe similar to the beginning/main riff of About To Crash (Reprise). Both are huge, optimistic sounding kick ass riffs. Just another style to be cemented in the repertoire of JP's bag of tricks. A reason why he is one of the most versatile guitarists ever.
And as mentioned, JLB sounds amazing as well.
Also, in my humble opinion I believe it is the most well-written song on the album. Great usage of metaphors, and an approach that is not too direct, yet easy enough to decipher what the song is about.
It is still probably my third-to-least favorite on DT12 (with Enigma Machine and False Awakening Suite being under it), but that does not mean much considering the greatness of the album.
So happy to finally say I'm a fan of this song!
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My favourite song by far and I keep coming back to listen to it almost all the time. Wicked song!
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Yeah, but does anyone else hear the opening riff as an Eddie Van Halen riff?
I think it is more like he took the Limelight riff, bent it into a pretzel, and then played it, but now that you mention it, he does throw some EVH-like gymnastics in there as well.
Anyway, really good tune! Definitely one of their most accessible songs ever.
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What's wrong with me? I can't get into this song at all for 3 reasons which is just stuck in my head.
1. opening riffs keeps reminding me of the Alan Parsons song "In the Real World".
2. The "gravity" measure also reminds me of "Defying Gravity" from Wicked musical.
3. The ending is the worst ending I've heard from DT (end of chorus then 4 quarter note hits).
I just can't shake it and the song is ruined for me. :(
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I dig the song a lot. I think sonically it's great but really what I like about it the most is (to me) the lyrics are speaking specifically about Portnoy.....how he handled the split and what HE thinks about himself.
Then again.....I could just be turning those lyrics into that because they are just vauge enough where you could insert ANY egotistical personality who turned his/her back on those who got you there into that song.
I just like to believe its DT's way of firing back at him for being a jerk to them in the wake of the split. without having to specifically call him out.
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Great song, but I certainly don't think it's the best on the album. Love the chorus, I just wish there was more variation in the lyrics. I also wish the song ended properly.
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Great song, but I certainly don't think it's the best on the album. Love the chorus, I just wish there was more variation in the lyrics. I also wish the song ended properly.
The song end fine for me. The song that I am not thrilled with the very end is The Enemy Inside.
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Great song. I think a fade out of the chorus riff would have been a MUCH much MUCH better ending for the song.
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Best song on the album. I always get chills on the ending of Petrucci's solo and the comeback of "You're caught up in your gravity..."
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It's one of my favs too. I love the chorus and James sounds especially special here. The only thing is, it's hard to get past the blatant Limelight connections in the riff.
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This opening riff sounds like a riff Eddie Van Halen would have played on 5150. That's what I think of anyhow.
Anyhow.
I don't really hear a strong similarity, but I can sorta hear what you mean.
No idea how this song got looked over! A well written song, and I like it, although the style doesn't quite suit me. The abrupt ending is a slight niggle since it was brought up, but aside from that a very solid song. Catchy chorus too.
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I actually liked the idea behind the ending.
It fits well with the theme of the song. Fame is transient. It can be taken away in a whim.
The song ends abruptly so it is a rather perfect juxtaposition.
Still can't beat the TBP for me though:)
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EVH? That riff is almost a complete rip off of Limelight. Song is good, I remember liking it a lot during the first few listens. but now it has faded a bit.
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I actually liked the idea behind the ending.
It fits well with the theme of the song. Fame is transient. It can be taken away in a whim.
The song ends abruptly so it is a rather perfect juxtaposition.
Still can't beat the TBP for me though:)
I like looking at songs in context with their lyrics, and you make a really great point here. I never thought about it like that before, but it's a pretty cool interpretation of why the ending is so abrupt.
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I actually liked the idea behind the ending.
It fits well with the theme of the song. Fame is transient. It can be taken away in a whim.
The song ends abruptly so it is a rather perfect juxtaposition.
Still can't beat the TBP for me though:)
I thought the same thing, and I really like the ending :tup
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Such an uplifting track :tup
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I think it's more of a Lifeson riff at the beginning, but I can kind of see where you get a 5150 vibe. It's a great track and I never skip it when it comes on. :tup Not a huge fan of the ending; it was obviously a conscious decision, but it comes across as kind of lazy and thoughtless.
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It's good, but it's probably my least favorite on the album.
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As for the Limelight similarities, I think Stephen Colbert says it best:
https://youtu.be/QquTUR9nbC4?t=2m16s
I believe that DT were more so emulating Rush than imitating them. JP and others in the band have referenced that TLG has a Rush influence, and I see it as them paying homage to them more than ripping them off or plagiarizing Limelight.
If they would have tried to hide it, refrain from giving Rush credit, or dismiss the similarities when brought up, that would be blatant imitation.
Just a thought...
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As for the Limelight similarities, I think Stephen Colbert says it best:
https://youtu.be/QquTUR9nbC4?t=2m16s
I believe that DT were more so emulating Rush than imitating them. JP and others in the band have referenced that TLG has a Rush influence, and I see it as them paying homage to them more than ripping them off or plagiarizing Limelight.
If they would have tried to hide it, refrain from giving Rush credit, or dismiss the similarities when brought up, that would be blatant imitation.
Just a thought...
Yep emulating, giving a shout-out, They have done this quite often in the past. That TGD riff when the lyrics go "life to save life", is extremely similar to Tool's 46&2. Even the "run to the light" sounds a bit like "run to the hills". DT has never been shy to give a nod to any band who may have influenced them at the moment. This song in particular though is the only one I can recall where JP came with with an almost identical riff.
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Great track, i really love Mike's drumming on this, very intricate and interesting.
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Monster track, absolutely love it. Kinda has a rush meets innocence faded feel for me, and is currently my phone ringtone, so I get to hear that awesome opening riff a whole bunch! :-)
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Great song. I think a fade out of the chorus riff would have been a MUCH much MUCH better ending for the song.
Nah,fade-outs are the cheapest,most uncreative way to end a song. The ending is fine as it is.
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Brilliant, concise song. One of the best on the album. Love it.
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Nah,fade-outs are the cheapest,most uncreative way to end a song. The ending is fine as it is.
Gustav Holst (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w8Bz6vNVlw) disagrees
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Never thought about the EVH similarity in that opening riff, but I can definitely hear it now. It's in the those higher notes that he plays on the 2nd half of the guitar phrases, not the lower ones that sound like a Rush riff. An awesome combination.
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Wow, I am in the minority here. I think it is the worst song on the album. I only enjoy the bass break out section. I am just happy it is a short song so I can get to the others. I would never skip it but it is my least fav on the album.
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Best song on the album. I always get chills on the ending of Petrucci's solo and the comeback of "You're caught up in your gravity..."
I always have to sing along with the delayed "digging up a gold mine" line. Every time. It's a sickness.
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Wow, I am in the minority here. I think it is the worst song on the album. I only enjoy the bass break out section. I am just happy it is a short song so I can get to the others. I would never skip it but it is my least fav on the album.
Same here, its the endinh I don't enjoy, it just suddenly ends
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One of the things I was curious about before hearing this album was if any of the vocal/musical melodies would get stuck in my head like DT's music often does. Well, I've had the chorus and that bass line stuck in my head for the last couple days.
You've done well, DT. You've done well.
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I always have to sing along with the delayed "digging up a gold mine" line. Every time. It's a sickness.
The "YAR DIGGING AP A GOLDMINE" line almost sounds like his vocals were were somehow corrupted during the mix and bumped up slightly in pitch as well. It's weird, they almost have a electronic/double tracked sound. It's mostly noticeable when you compare the first chorus to the third one, it sounds higher-pitched than the first one.
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I was surprised how far this thread was buried. I loved this song so much the first few spins and it has grown on me even more from there. For one, I like the lyrical topic. But I just listened again paying attention to all JP's NON solo guitar work and it is just an outstanding performance by him, especially during the verses. Great driving song, crank it up!!
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Since I like Signals era Rush a whole lot more than modern era DT, I think its the best song on the album.
And I'm surprised that people are only picking up on the opening riff. The whole song is essentially a tribute. The vocal melodies. The keyboard patch. The callback vocals on the chorus. The complete change-up going into the solo, and half of the solo is quite Lifesonesque. The only person who wasn't all over their Rush counterpart was Mangini.
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Since I like Signals era Rush a whole lot more than modern era DT, I think its the best song on the album.
And I'm surprised that people are only picking up on the opening riff. The whole song is essentially a tribute. The vocal melodies. The keyboard patch. The callback vocals on the chorus. The complete change-up going into the solo, and half of the solo is quite Lifesonesque. The only person who wasn't all over their Rush counterpart was Mangini.
I think the whole album is essentially a tribute. The opening to Surrender To Reason could've easily come from any 80's era Rush album. This is the most Rush sounding album they've made.
Edit: I just saw your Didacts and Narpets comment.
See!
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I hear influences from a lot of different bands all over the album. There's a quiet passage somewhere in there that's straight out of the Gilmour playbook. JLB was clearly going for a Mustaine sound in BtV. Hell, they even covered themselves with the end of IT.
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Hell, they even covered themselves with the end of IT.
:hefdaddy
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Hell, they even covered themselves with the end of IT.
:hefdaddy
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I guess I'm the only one here that hear a lot more journey (escape and frontiers era) influence in this song than limelight (of course, after the intro guitar riff). And the solo, it's quite UK style, like a "mini" Trial of Tears. Anyway, this really doesn't matter... it's one of the finest DT commercial songs, no doubt! GREAT song ! :tup
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It's a good song, and I love the artwork accompanying it. :tup
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Love the lyrics to this song. To me, there's a faint similarity between the lyrics to "Just Let Me Breathe" and "The Looking Glass," because both songs are about fame. Comparing the lyrics shows why I'm so happy to have more Petrucci lyrics. Petrucci approaches the topic with such poeticness in "The Looking Glass," while Portnoy basically calls out people and TV networks in a ranting way in "Just Le Me Breathe."
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I hear influences from a lot of different bands all over the album. There's a quiet passage somewhere in there that's straight out of the Gilmour playbook. JLB was clearly going for a Mustaine sound in BtV. Hell, they even covered themselves with the end of IT.
...and with the beginning... that tatatatata-tata drumming coming from the 12SS and even before - was it Caught in a web ending, if I recall properly? Yes I do (I checked back - ;D)
On the song, yes Rushy, like also the Bigger Picture... that guitar comeback after the light and rare piano break...
lyrics definitely about Mike the Old, and also funny reference on the artwork to BC&SL, most elements are there, the child is grown, the dream is gone i.e. the elephant has grown smaller than the books (another reference to Portnoy I guess ::) ).
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Love the song, and especially love the bass intro into the solo and of course the guitar solo itself. Nothing super technical but has a great feel to it. :D
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Still one of my favorites on the album. My only complaint is how abruptly it ends.
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Great song, one of my favorites on album. I especially like James' singing in verses.
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I love all the crazy keyboard work Jordan does in the 2nd verse. It's buried, but if you listen closely, it's very interesting!
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This song could be my bathroom break if they play it this tour. Again, like the break down and solo but still my least fav on new album.
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I love all the crazy keyboard work Jordan does in the 2nd verse. It's buried, but if you listen closely, it's very interesting!
Yeah, it's criminal how much he gets buried in the mix on this album.
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Absolutely great song, easily one of my favorites on the album. I can see the Rush comparisons, but this song still sounds more to me like DT than Rush, and that's what matters. I particularly like the verse sections, the melody is beautiful there, but then again that's one of my favorite melodic progressions. I really do hope they play this live on the tour.
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Oh, for sure! Avantasia is great!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tedG-y7VM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tedG-y7VM)
:-*
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Still the only song on the album I don't really care for, but it's better than the song I didn't care for on the last album (BMUBMD).
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TLG seems to be even more awesome live than on the album, really looking forward to witnessing it myself instead of only watching youtube videos :tup
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So after prolly close to 100 spins of DT12 this song and IT are the only two I never skip...0% fatigue factor after all this time, can't wait to hear live.
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I love all the crazy keyboard work Jordan does in the 2nd verse. It's buried, but if you listen closely, it's very interesting!
Yeah, it's criminal how much he gets buried in the mix on this album.
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Looking Glass is definitely my favorite on the album. JPs guitar sound is amazing, and the riffs have a beautiful quality to them.
And I actually love how JR is more in the background on this album. With metal i feel that's the best way keyboards should be used. I'm not a big fan of the way JR is so up-front on a lot of DT music. I rather he play more for atmosphere and tone rather then on top playing solos with Petrucci.
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Still easily my least favourite song on the album (well, maybe on a par with FAS, but that's not technically a "song").
I mean, it's fine and all, and the solo section in particular is really great (such a nice groove from MM and JM). I just don't find it very exciting, and honestly I find the riff to be pretty meh.
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The blatant similarities to Limelight bothered me at first, but the song has grown on me since then. On Monday I'll see how much it rocks live!
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Hm, I definitely wouldn't rate it the best song of the record. It's a bit too 'mainstream' for my taste. But it's well written and I do like the bass section ^^
I just prefer The Bigger Picture ten times over it.
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Great song, I can't wait to see it live tomorrow!
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This is such a perfect "short DT" song. All the progressive elements are there and it stays tight and under 5 minutes without giving off a feel that it was rushed.
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If someone can say it's the best song on the album, I can say that it sucks
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It's a great song. Only problems with it really are the one verse with the super busy double bass and keyboards kind of covers up James, and the ending is a little awkward.
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This is such a perfect "short DT" song. All the progressive elements are there and it stays tight and under 5 minutes without giving off a feel that it was rushed.
Dunno, I'm getting precisely that feel. :neverusethis:
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The album version feels bleak, so I didn't like that a lot until I heard the BTFW version. That was sooo much better in terms of mix and balance (keyboards yay!)
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I must say, I never quite got the whole Rush comparison for this song specifically (I could agree with it but I likely wouldn't have a drawn the comparison by myself), I mean DT have a bunch of 'Rush' moments in various songs.. But just the other day, I had DT12 in the car stereo while going for a drive with a buddy of mine. He likes Dream Theater but he doesn't nearly follow them as much as myself. I guess he thought it was mix CD or something because when we hit the 3rd track (before the vocals) he turned his head and said to me "Rush?". I couldn't believe it, his comment surprised me and I just laughed. This guy doesn't listen to Rush, just heard them through me sometimes and he instantly thought the start of TLG was a Rush song...
So... Yeah, I guess it does have some kinda Rush vibe goin on there, at least with the guitaring.
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Its an obvious homage to the intro of limelight. That doesn't bother me, what does is the ending. Sounds like they didn't know how to end it without a fadeout.
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I have never heard "Limelight" but I've always heard the Rush influence in this songs, specially in the intro.
Maybe this is a little off topic, but I really like the short arpeggios JR plays in this song, i'm talking about the one right before the first verse (0:31 in the official youtube video) and the one before the "You are not content with being nameless and unknown..." verse (1:49 in the official video from the opera house).
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I think Looking Glass is one of the best songs they've written in a long time. Amazing song.
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The more DT sounds like Rush, the better, in my opinion, and I don't mean that literally (like The Looking Glass, or the end of Learning to Live), I just mean the more that the band interacts and doesn't just go for "heavy" the better I like it.
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Its an obvious homage to the intro of limelight. That doesn't bother me, what does is the ending. Sounds like they didn't know how to end it without a fadeout.
You're right and the ending just baffles the mind. Which is distressing in itself because this is one of the 3 songs on the album that I actually like. Classic DT structure and vocals. Great JP solo and another homage to Rush by playing the solo over just a bass line rather than the customary rhythm guitar underneath as well. However, the ending is completely underwhelming.
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I have never heard "Limelight" but I've always heard the Rush influence in this songs, specially in the intro.
What? You've never heard Limelight, but recognize the Rush Influence? :lol
The more DT sounds like Rush, the better, in my opinion, and I don't mean that literally (like The Looking Glass, or the end of Learning to Live), I just mean the more that the band interacts and doesn't just go for "heavy" the better I like it.
I'm a lifelong disgruntled Rush fan. They lost me at Signals, and I was prepared to have them as my favorite band. (of course I was in the 8th grade). To me, they've never come close to capturing what they were back then.
When I became a DT fan in mid '92, I always said that this is the music Rush should be playing.
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I have never heard "Limelight" but I've always heard the Rush influence in this songs, specially in the intro.
What? You've never heard Limelight, but recognize the Rush Influence? :lol
My friend I mentioned had never heard Limelight, but still got a Rush vibe from the song. I would argue it only sounds like Limelight for about 2 or 3 seconds, the development of the riffs change pretty quickly.
Its an obvious homage to the intro of limelight. That doesn't bother me, what does is the ending. Sounds like they didn't know how to end it without a fadeout.
You're right and the ending just baffles the mind.
Is it related to the subject of the song? Like things ending too soon? I dunno if that is intentional but it feels like the kind of thing DT might have deliberately considered while composing.
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I have never heard "Limelight" but I've always heard the Rush influence in this songs, specially in the intro.
What? You've never heard Limelight, but recognize the Rush Influence? :lol
Well, I've discovered Rush just a couple of years ago, so far I've listened to the last album and some isolated songs. That's the reason :lol
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I'm a lifelong disgruntled Rush fan. They lost me at Signals, and I was prepared to have them as my favorite band. (of course I was in the 8th grade). To me, they've never come close to capturing what they were back then.
When I became a DT fan in mid '92, I always said that this is the music Rush should be playing.
Not to quibble, but it's not the band that lost you, or lost it's way, it's you that haven't followed them where they went and haven't been able, or willing, to keep up.
A band does what a band does, and fans either follow along or get off the bandwagon. But (provided a band's musical integrity is reasonably intact, and that is unassailable in the case of Rush) what a band plays is what they should be playing, not the other way around.
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Its an obvious homage to the intro of limelight. That doesn't bother me, what does is the ending. Sounds like they didn't know how to end it without a fadeout.
You're right and the ending just baffles the mind.
Is it related to the subject of the song? Like things ending too soon? I dunno if that is intentional but it feels like the kind of thing DT might have deliberately considered while composing.
Not sure of the intent and if it really matters. The result is less than memorable when compared to the rest of the song. It's a shame too because I like the song a lot. Oh well...like the Stones say, "you don't always get what you want." :biggrin: