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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: KevShmev on September 26, 2013, 12:37:56 PM
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Because all of the new songs should probably have their own thread, here is one for Enigma Machine.
This song didn't do a lot for me at first, but it is slowly growing on me. It's still near the bottom in regards to favorites from the new record, but I am starting to like it more.
Also, there is NO "The" in Enigma Machine, so some need to go out of that nasty habit of adding one. :biggrin: :lol
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Because all of the new songs should probably have their own thread, here is one for Enigma Machine.
This song didn't do a lot for me at first, but it is slowly growing on me. It's still near the bottom in regards to favorites from the new record, but I am starting to like it more.
Also, there is NO "The" in Enigma Machine, so some need to go out of that nasty habit of adding one. :biggrin: :lol
Thank you! I'm pretty sure I've seen it abbreviated as TEM before, which certainly confused me.
As far as the song goes, here's hoping it grows on me. Every other song on the album has at least one "wow!" moment for me, but I am still trying to find one of those with Enigma Machine.
Also, is anyone else disappointed with the length of the bass solo? When I heard that there was a bass solo in EM, I was pretty excited as I'm sure many others were. When I finally heard the bass solo in EM, I couldn't help but think "that was it?".
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I quite like this one. Many here seems to not like it but I do. Nice and catchy riffs, great performances from the band, and a fine driving rhythm. I would rank it in the middle of all their instrumentals.
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In my mind its by far the biggest disappointment on the new record and the worst instrumental the guys have ever released. Despite repeated listens, there is NOTHING that grabs me about it all. I can't find any sense of purpose, direction or groove in it and there are just no memorable parts either. And yes! as for the 3 second Bass solo...........................................
Totally forgettable song, will definitely be the "going to the bar" interlude at the concerts.
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This song is awesome, I hate how it seems to be regarded as one of the worst on the new record.
Best part of the song is easily the doom riff at the beginning and especially at the end. So fucking evil.
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It's like the new Ytse Jam. Which has always been my favorite instrumental. It's just a very classic structure, not crazy like DOE or going on and on like SOC. just a cool riff that will make your head bob and some cool solos with a short B section. I love it!
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Enigma Machine is the only song that hasn't "clicked" for me yet. It has some very cool elements, but I'm not feeling it as a whole right now. Instrumentals tend to take much longer to grow on me though, so I don't doubt Enigma Machine will do the same.
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Enigma Machine is the only song that hasn't "clicked" for me yet. It has some very cool elements, but I'm not feeling it as a whole right now. Instrumentals tend to take much longer to grow on me though, so I don't doubt Enigma Machine will do the same.
About the same for me, and the fact that there hasn't been a proper album-instrumental in 10 years and 5 albums... I think I'm a bit "Oh..." about it, kind of "Meh..." at first. I LIKE it, but I'm not going GAGA over it. It's good, definitely, but it'll take awhile to click.
-Marc.
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I love this track. As soon as I heard it, I knew it would be a bit controversial. It's got a bit of an atonal edge to it that makes it less accessible.
The riffs in this song, though...love it. :tup
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I dig it, and MM's mini solo was a nice surprise too.
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Mangini drives the song with massive power. I was hit by that energy the first time I listened to it. Really love Jordan's Hammond organ patch, thus 2:03 is a big highlight. 1:40 sounds like some of my favorite epic NES soundtracks. JM's bass fills are great, especially because of his sound and Mike's drum solo is up there with Virgil Donati's Clonus fill, as one of my favorite short drum solos. Claiming it to be worse than Raw Dog is one of the most horrendous opinions I've ever read on DTF.
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I dig it a lot.
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I do like it. It has an incredible unison.
But my thought when listening is that this will be heralded while Raw Dog gets trashed. I'm thinking, what's the difference? I know there is a difference, but really, what's THE difference?
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Mangini drives the song with massive power.
James drives a forklift.
:forklift:
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JP is in overdrive.
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I do like it. It has an incredible unison.
But my thought when listening is that this will be heralded while Raw Dog gets trashed. I'm thinking, what's the difference? I know there is a difference, but really, what's THE difference?
I think a better question would be "what do they have in common?" Raw Dog is pretty repetitive and uninspired, while Enigma Machine is much more interesting and focused.
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Enigma Machine is less dragged-out and has more "fuck yeah" moments.
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I do like it. It has an incredible unison.
But my thought when listening is that this will be heralded while Raw Dog gets trashed. I'm thinking, what's the difference? I know there is a difference, but really, what's THE difference?
I think a better question would be "what do they have in common?" Raw Dog is pretty repetitive and uninspired, while Enigma Machine is much more interesting and focused.
They're both largely just riffs and solos, although EM's riffing has a lot more melody to it. To me there's not a huge amount of difference, although EM does it a bit better. I think they're both among DT's weakest instrumentals though.
But that said, I still enjoy EM from start to finish, but it's not even the best instrumental on the album.
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I love this song. I would put it as probably my third favorite DT instrumental.
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I feel disappointed with it so far but it needs more listens. I do agree that it does feel kind of aimless. One thing I appreciate about a good instrumental is that it feels like a story is being told without words. Like you are on a journey. It takes you to different places. I am getting none of that so far from EM.
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I'm not really liking this song. Maybe it is too "metallish" for me.. And the soft section is kinda out of place and bland.
:angel:
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One of the cool parts of the song is the part after the doom riff in the beginning just before the theme. It reminds me from listen nr. 1 of a....yes....machine winding and unwinding
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Amazing instrumental. Blows most of their other ones out of the water, IMO. It's got everything, great metal riffs, great progressive bits, lots of kick ass changes, everything a DT instrumental should have. If people asked me, "Show me how this band's music is particularly unique" this would easily be one of the examples I'd show them.
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When I first heard it, I got to think of a Thin Lizzy instrumental called "Mama don't like it" (an instrumental demo version of "Someday's she's going to hit back"). I think it's the bridge section in EM that reminds me of it. Not that the riff appears in that song, but there is something in the melodies that sound similar. Might be worth checking out.
With that said, I think it's great. I found it a lot more playful than some of it's predecessors, which I find refreshing. The evil Inspector Gadget theme makes me smile every time :)
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When I first heard it, I got to think of a Thin Lizzy instrumental called "Mama don't like it" (an instrumental demo version of "Someday's she's going to hit back"). I think it's the bridge section in EM that reminds me of it. Not that the riff appears in that song, but there is something in the melodies that sound similar. Might be worth checking out.
With that said, I think it's great. I found it a lot more playful than some of it's predecessors, which I find refreshing. The evil Inspector Gadget theme makes me smile every time :)
It can go along with the Inspector Gadget riff at the start of Strange Deja Vu. :hat
It definitely has a sense of fun that I felt was lacking from ADTOE, so I'm glad that's back.
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It's ok, but in comparison with for example Erotomania the emphasis is way too much on technicality instead of melody.
Erotomania is a wonderfully melodic song whereas EM is somewhat of a shredfest to me.
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Dat riff! I'm starting to really like EM.
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Mangini drives the song with massive power.
James drives a forklift.
:forklift:
:lol
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Seriously though...
This track is a major grower. At first I was a little weirded out by the main riff. Felt a little too whimsical. My first thought was the Pink Panther meets Inspector Gadget. That was a bit distracting for the first few listens, but now I hear so much kick ass wankery in that song that I'm just :omg :metal
I actually went back and watched the 3rd studio video (with the scatman vocal part).... hard to believe that turned into one of the coolest little drum solos on the album. :tup
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My least favorite of the album; but it is much better now than it used to be 2 weeks ago. IMO it lacks good emotional moment(s) ala SOC outro or Hell's Kitchen or Overture 1928 and such moments usually serve to fill the gaps left by the absence of vocals, and in that song the only emotional moment is the TCOT reference which is in fact not touching me.
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I pretty much agree with Moor above me, but I would add that the initial and final riff is huge as hell :metal
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JP is in overdrive.
Apart from when he is in the clean channel .
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ThIs Song absolutely Kills It! The Petrucci Solo Halfway Through Is Insane, And That Heavy Shit At The End Is :xbones >:( :tup :metal
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This was actually one of the first songs to really click with me from the album, its just so energetic and fun that I couldn't help but smile while I was listening to it the first time because I could tell the guys were just enjoying the hell out of it
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Probably the worst "song" on the album, along with the Rush rip-off.
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Probably the worst "song" on the album, along with the Rush rip-off.
Which one??? :neverusethis:
-Marc.
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OK. I have listened a few more times and it is growing on me. I do agree that it is not melodic driven which I prefer. They are having fun and the song does come across as more playful which is a plus.
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I originally thought the section around 3:40 (that I have always liked a lot from the start) sounded very random and out of place, but it hit me today: it is very much like the slower section near the end of Rush's YYZ, and even seems to progress in a similar way in feel and tension. That was probably intentional.
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I'm actually laughing how everyone was all hyped about getting an instrumental, then it ends up disappointing them.
This sounds like a more refined Raw Dog, I enjoy it a lot and know its going to slay live.
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I really like Enigma Machine. It's got a lot of cool stuff, like the JP cartoon riff and some cool video game-y keyboard parts as well.
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Probably the worst "song" on the album, along with the Rush rip-off.
:facepalm:
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I love this track. Dat drum solo!
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I like it. I think when it comes to instrumentals from this band I prefer the more straightforward songs, like Erotomania and Hells Kitchen. I'm not big on either TDoE or SoC for different reasons and I think this one is much better than the latter 2.
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The slow part in this song reminds me of A Nightmare to Remember.
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I really enjoy listening to this song. I think it's a great MM era instrumental. The ONLY thing I was disappointed by was the fact that he and John Myung didn't get more solo time.
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Seriously though...
This track is a major grower. At first I was a little weirded out by the main riff. Felt a little too whimsical. My first thought was the Pink Panther meets Inspector Gadget.
I actually thought it was more Mission Impossible meets Inspector Gadget. The riff is so crawly. When you think it ends, it doesn't. :D
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This sounds like a more refined Raw Dog
Me belching after too many tacos sounds like a more refined Raw Dog.
This is a well-constructed piece of music.
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Probably the worst "song" on the album, along with the Rush rip-off.
:facepalm:
Its very sad that people are not allowed their OWN opinions without having to put up with childish replies like that, just because you have a different opinion!
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You didn't think it was childish to label a song that the band has just released "a Rush rip-off"? I'm all about people having different opinions, but let's have a little consistency.
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This may not be many people's favorite instrumental (at least, it seems a lot of people rank it pretty low), but after having the CD for a week, this song has really grown on me. At this point I'd rank it as my #2 favorite. Its fun to listen to, it's heavy, and the solos are all killer. Biggest grower on the album. :metal
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Enigma Machine reminds me more of Rush than TLG does - It could almost be called "The Main Monkey Business Part 2". This is actually one of the more cleverly structured instrumentals DT have done, and I love it. That little refrain from "Surrender to Reason" seems out of place in the middle of it, but I love the way it reflects and repeats the main themes. One of the stronger tracks on the album.
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I like this more every time I hear it. I love the "horror movie" style intro, that's new for them. I can't get that part out of my head now. Doo doo doo da-doo doo doo......
My 3rd favorite song on the album behind IT and Enemy.
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Anyone else think that the only reason Enigma Machine is not called The Enigma Machine is so that the track list wouldn't have four songs in a row beginning with "The"?
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Anyone else think that the only reason Enigma Machine is not called The Enigma Machine is so that the track list wouldn't have four songs in a row beginning with "The"?
No, although it's an interesting pattern!
I think that calling it "The" Enigma Machine would put too much emphasis on the noun itself, as if the song is actually related to that, but it's an instrumental, so really it's just chosen as a cool sounding name. So I think "Enigma Machine" sounds more fitting and mysterious, and chosen because it's a nice sounding combination of words, rather than sounding like it's a song based on the wikipedia page for coded messages during WW2.
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Anyone else think that the only reason Enigma Machine is not called The Enigma Machine is so that the track list wouldn't have four songs in a row beginning with "The"?
:lol
I'm looking at you, Black Clouds & Silver Linings...tsk tsk tsk.
-Marc.
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Anyone else think that the only reason Enigma Machine is not called The Enigma Machine is so that the track list wouldn't have four songs in a row beginning with "The"?
:lol
I'm looking at you, Black Clouds & Silver Linings...tsk tsk tsk.
-Marc.
From now all, all track sequencing shall be based solely on separating the "the" tracks! :P
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I have to say the solo Rudess comes in with at 3:06 sounds like hes rushing out the gates and it sounds awesome. I love how the quick bass break before it helps the solo sound more intense.
I probably explained that terribly but summary = i love it.
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I like the song - As a comparison, SOC is too long and drawn out like a lot of DT songs. This one is just the right track length. For some reason that first part of the song reminds me of a Godzilla movie, with monster high stepping down the streets of Tokyo.
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I have to say the solo Rudess comes in with at 3:06 sounds like hes rushing out the gates and it sounds awesome. I love how the quick bass break before it helps the solo sound more intense.
I probably explained that terribly but summary = i love it.
That part is cool, nice riff behind.
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The whole thing just reminds me of a SPY MOVIE!
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I think it's a great song-- surprised by all the hate. MM is on fire.
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I think it's a great song-- surprised by all the hate. MM is on fire.
This.
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I think the song is pretty awesome. I don't get the hate. I just wish that Myung's "solo" was longer.
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Freaking love this song! Dun dun du du du deeeeeeee
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Great piece of music IMO. Still DT, but something a little different. Although negative opinions may stand out to those who dig EM, the breakdown of posts from this topic are roughly this:
77% Positive
9% Neutral
14% Negative (and not all of that is really "Hate")
So there doesn't really appear to be a concerning amount of hate for EM.
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Yesterday, I had the first opportunity to listen to the whole album while driving. That's actually one of the most important music-listening contexts for me and always offers new perspective. I enjoyed EM so much that I had to rewind it 2 times before moving on. That didn't happen with any other song on the album. Loving every second of it. I gotta say, 2:01 - 2:33, at this point, is probably my favorite part of the album (besides minutes 11-13 of IT).
:hefdaddy Jordan & Mike
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Yesterday, I had the first opportunity to listen to the whole album while driving. That's actually one of the most important music-listening contexts for me and always offers new perspective.
Me too :metal
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I love the song. I don't know where I would rank it since my ranking of the album is still rotating a lot, with only the top 3 being solid at this point, but probably Enigma Machine will end up on the upper half.
I love the bit at 2:10 when Mangini lets the bass drum flurry out. I wasn't expecting it on the first listen and I couldn't help but laughing at how cool it sounded :biggrin:
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Don't like it.
Still listen to it to try to like it.
Still don't know exactly why I don't like it - yet ?
== >> Work in progress == >> I'll let you know. :loser:
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FINALLY the miracle happens!!
After many listening, I finally learned to love this huge piece of awesome music!! :metal
JP and JLB have already said that DT12 is an album with a "cinematographic atmosphere", and that's what Enigma Machine is all about!!
Sounds like an horror film soundtrack, and when you listen to it, it's like you were in a roller coaster ride!! :tup
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I think the drum fill of the year award should go to Mike Mangini for what he does in this song.
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Easily the best song on the new album, the only one that is interesting. Really some great riffs and soloing here too, only complain is, yeah, bass solo is underwhelming. It's very similar to Erotomania though, a 20-years-later rendition of it or something, at least that's what it makes me think.
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Easily the best song on the new album
:tup
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It is very similar to Erotomania, I thought the same thing. It sounds nothing like it but the structure or something is similar. And they are both track 4 lol, not that that makes a difference.
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Don't like it.
Still listen to it to try to like it.
Still don't know exactly why I don't like it - yet ?
== >> Work in progress == >> I'll let you know. :loser:
FINALLY the miracle happens!!
After many listening, I finally learned to love this huge piece of awesome music!! :metal
That took less than a day. :lol
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Told you it was a miracle!! ;D
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I think its great. Short and powerful, especially the drums, which really drive the song. Love how it ends with a vengeance. Great tune to stick in the middle of the album.
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Love Enigma Machine. It's well put together, has some nice riffs and great solos, and MM fucking kills it. It's relatively compact-SOC is just too fucking long-and doesn't overstay its welcome. Great song.
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This is up there with my favorite instrumentals. It really needs multiple listens before you can really judge it, it's a lot to take in. Once you can memorize the main riff, you should be good to go! :metal
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Love the inspector gadget riff :)
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One of the only songs to really "grab" me on the first listen, and still one of my favourites on the album.
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Gotta learn the riffs from this one.
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Freakin love it! I love the unisions especially,which is probably what I like the most about DT's music.Also,I love all the solo's buy the guys.Awesome!
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EM is not the best song on DT12, but it's fun. Reminds me of The Ytse Jam.
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Happily, this song has grown on me in a major way. Very fun song indeed, and pretty great to drive to. :metal
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Gotta go listen a few more times. I usually skip it, as instrumentals don't hold my attention. But reading all the praise for it is piquing my interest in a huge way!
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Mangini's fill towards the end sounds amazing to listen to on surround sound. It lives up to the name surround sound
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Not my favorite DT instrumental, but better than my least favorite. And I liked EM when I first heard it.
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Happily, this song has grown on me in a major way. Very fun song indeed, and pretty great to drive to. :metal
I caught myself doing 50mph in a 35mph zone yesterday. I realized after I slowed down that every time this song comes on while I'm driving I speed up :lol (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55966936/Fun/smilies/eddie.gif)
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Though I like EM a *bit* better than I did at first, I still consider it to be very lacking in melody for my personal taste.
To me, it's my 2nd least fav on DT12, after The Looking Glass.
And for everyone who has said something about the bass solo being pathetically short, I just wanted to say: HELL YEAH! Same goes for the drum solo. I was expecting the solo spots to be actual lengthy solos, perhaps at least 10-15 seconds or so each.
The drum "solo" is awesome, definitely not hating on it, but I wish both the drum and bass solos were longer.
With all that said, I still think the track is okay. Just pales in comparison to most of the rest of the album, IMHO.
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I wouldn't change a thing about the drum solo, I think it's the most effective this way. A longer solo could break the flow and wouldn't pack such a punch. I love short solos like this, Virgil Donati's on Clonus is one of my all-time favorite drum moments (and this one is up there as well).
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The beginning of this song has replaced the BITS throatsinging as my ringtone.
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According to JP the drum solo was originally even shorter, but MM wanted to extend it a bit and they allowed him to do so.
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It did nothing for me at first but now I love it as much as the rest of the album. The MM bits just bring a smile to my face for some reason.
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I could see an extended YYZ/YtseJam style drum solo live.
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I could see an extended YYZ/YtseJam style drum solo live.
This would be neat, especially if we get an extended bass solo spot for Myung as well!
-Marc.
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Don't know if this has been mentioned or if anyone saw it, but on the TV show Pawn Stars, a guy brought in an Enigma Machine to sell on the show last night. Said there were only 4 known in the US. He wanted 250k for it, so they had the expert come in and evaluate, turns out his model had some replacement parts and was only worth 70k.
Were used by the German field generals in WWII to encrypt messages. Turns out we cracked the code early on but had to underplay how much we knew so they would not recalibrate.
But as the owner of the pawn shop was looking at it he said, "the coolest thing about this thing is the name - Enigma Machine" :metal
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I wouldn't change a thing about the drum solo, I think it's the most effective this way. A longer solo could break the flow and wouldn't pack such a punch. I love short solos like this, Virgil Donati's on Clonus is one of my all-time favorite drum moments (and this one is up there as well).
The drum break on " Don't Look Back In Anger " is a really nice moment too. Short and sweet.
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Don't know if this has been mentioned or if anyone saw it, but on the TV show Pawn Stars, a guy brought in an Enigma Machine to sell on the show last night. Said there were only 4 known in the US. He wanted 250k for it, so they had the expert come in and evaluate, turns out his model had some replacement parts and was only worth 70k.
Were used by the German field generals in WWII to encrypt messages. Turns out we cracked the code early on but had to underplay how much we knew so they would not recalibrate.
I'm assuming you're British? They were the ones decrypting the Enigma Machine to my knowledge (Alan Turing and stuff).
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This is one of the only DTXII songs I enjoy, but one thing drives me crazy: the effect that keeps getting used on the drums. I don't know what it's called, but it has that "whoosh" feeling and is very prevalent in Rainbow's Rising.
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It really stretches the word "solo" to call any drum or bass moment on the song a "solo." A real bass and/or drum solo could have been amazing, and a new DT moment. Love the drums on EM, but that is a fill, not a "solo."
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Don't know if this has been mentioned or if anyone saw it, but on the TV show Pawn Stars, a guy brought in an Enigma Machine to sell on the show last night. Said there were only 4 known in the US. He wanted 250k for it, so they had the expert come in and evaluate, turns out his model had some replacement parts and was only worth 70k.
Were used by the German field generals in WWII to encrypt messages. Turns out we cracked the code early on but had to underplay how much we knew so they would not recalibrate.
I'm assuming you're British? They were the ones decrypting the Enigma Machine to my knowledge (Alan Turing and stuff).
But Hollywood rewrote history again. John Bon Jovi captured it before becoming even shorter.
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Enigma is great. Took a little bit to really grow, but I love it now and think its perfectly placed on the album.
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This song is underrated like a MoFo.....really fun, and every instrument just goes crazy. Yet it still has that musical hook that keeps coming back (the Inspector Gadget-like theme)
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Enigma Machine reminds me of the good parts of Stream of Consciousness while not dragging on like the latter.
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About 2:48 of Enigma Machine reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfgsT9aD2po
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About 2:48 of Enigma Machine reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfgsT9aD2po
Wow, that's really cool game music!! :o really Mission Impossible inspired as EM too.
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EM machine reminds me of VG music as well, more precisely Shadow of the Ninja for the NES, which had one of my favorite soundtracks of my childhood.
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EM also now reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqaNrWcIRYY
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This song didn't do a lot for me at first, but it is slowly growing on me.
Also, there is NO "The" in Enigma Machine, so some need to go out of that nasty habit of adding one. :biggrin: :lol
Exactly the same here. It starts like James Bond is peeking over a wall, waiting to make moves, then it continues in groovy action. I'm always hopping during that part : p
It missed some direction for me, but the more I know what's coming, the more I enjoy it. Love how the end is ready for The Bigger Picture :hefdaddy.
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Over time, this has become one of my favorites from the new album. Of course, I can say that about the majority of the songs on DT12, but this one is just killer to crank when driving. :metal
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It really stretches the word "solo" to call any drum or bass moment on the song a "solo." A real bass and/or drum solo could have been amazing, and a new DT moment. Love the drums on EM, but that is a fill, not a "solo."
Concerning MM moment, I see where you are coming from. I actually think it's halfway between a solo and a fill.
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Don't know if this has been mentioned or if anyone saw it, but on the TV show Pawn Stars, a guy brought in an Enigma Machine to sell on the show last night. Said there were only 4 known in the US. He wanted 250k for it, so they had the expert come in and evaluate, turns out his model had some replacement parts and was only worth 70k.
Were used by the German field generals in WWII to encrypt messages. Turns out we cracked the code early on but had to underplay how much we knew so they would not recalibrate.
I'm assuming you're British? They were the ones decrypting the Enigma Machine to my knowledge (Alan Turing and stuff).
But Hollywood rewrote history again. John Bon Jovi captured it before becoming even shorter.
Well, Americans did capture an enigma machine, but it was later in the war (1944), and not nearly as important as the earlier captured enigma materials.
Concerning MM moment, I see where you are coming from. I actually think it's halfway between a solo and a fill.
A fillo?
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It really stretches the word "solo" to call any drum or bass moment on the song a "solo." A real bass and/or drum solo could have been amazing, and a new DT moment. Love the drums on EM, but that is a fill, not a "solo."
Concerning MM moment, I see where you are coming from. I actually think it's halfway between a solo and a fill.
Yeah, it's really like an extended fill. I love it to death, though; one of the very few DT moments that I anticipate getting to when listening to the rest of the song.
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I have the iPad on shuffle and heard it earlier this morning. It's an enigma alright. Especially the part where it slows down and sounds exactly like something from BC&SL. ANTR maybe? Can't for the life of me figure out why they would want to do that. Totally kills the song for me.
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I would call that a dynamic shift, and slowing it down for a brief bit in a song that is otherwise very high energy. I would still bet my bank account that Rush's YYZ was the inspiration for that section.
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I would call that a dynamic shift, and slowing it down for a brief bit in a song that is otherwise very high energy. I would still bet my bank account that Rush's YYZ was the inspiration for that section.
I once said that it's like a mix between that YYZ section and the similarly-sounding section from TCOT, and I still go by that comparison.
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I would call that a dynamic shift, and slowing it down for a brief bit in a song that is otherwise very high energy. I would still bet my bank account that Rush's YYZ was the inspiration for that section.
Yes, I would agree and it makes sense within the context of the song, but why make it sound so similar to BC&SL? That's the part that's killing me. Same chord progressions and everything. I just feel that DT is falling back on their own material too much.
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I really can't hear any BC&SL in Enigma Machine. No idea what you're talking about. Could you maybe point out the song sections you find similar to the slow part in Enigma Machine?
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Especially the part where it slows down and sounds exactly like something from BC&SL. ANTR maybe? Can't for the life of me figure out why they would want to do that. Totally kills the song for me.
This. Fricking love the song up until that point, but it's just painful how similar that bit is to the slow part midway through TCOT, and how the melody and chords and reminiscent of ANTR.
Although, to be fair, it's one of the only instances on the album of something sounding similar to a past work.
I really can't hear any BC&SL in Enigma Machine. No idea what you're talking about. Could you maybe point out the song sections you find similar to the slow part in Enigma Machine?
Compare:
3:37 - EM
with
10:16 - TCOT
-
Compare:
3:37 - EM
with
10:16 - TCOT
Also compare that same section's chord progression to "Stunned and bewildered, cold and afraid..." from ANtR
-
So I've been wondering - where in this song does it sound like the Inspector Gadget theme? I've been curious about this for months because I *still* don't hear it. That theme song is in a swung-sounding triple-feel where as "Enigma Machine" is strictly duple-sounding the whole time, nothing about it is jazzy or in a swing-feel. Can anyone point this out for me because I'm just not hearing it. :facepalm:
-Marc.
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I would call that a dynamic shift, and slowing it down for a brief bit in a song that is otherwise very high energy. I would still bet my bank account that Rush's YYZ was the inspiration for that section.
I once said that it's like a mix between that YYZ section and the similarly-sounding section from TCOT, and I still go by that comparison.
Oh yeah, it does sound similar to the section in TCOT. I never noticed that before. I don't have a problem with the section at all, especially the way it kicks back into the sneaky little guitar/keyboard part before going back into the riff.
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I never caught that similarity either, but even being aware of it now, I don't care.
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o.O Weird how I've never noticed how similar they are. Good catch.
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I have the iPad on shuffle and heard it earlier this morning. It's an enigma alright. Especially the part where it slows down and sounds exactly like something from BC&SL. ANTR maybe? Can't for the life of me figure out why they would want to do that. Totally kills the song for me.
Yep it's definitely a nod to ANTR. The album has plenty of nods to past work.
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The album has plenty of nods to past work.
:o Care to elaborate?
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The album has plenty of nods to past work.
Is it 2011? :P
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The album has plenty of nods to past work.
:o Care to elaborate?
The already mentioned nod to ANTR, also Along For The Ride has a nod to Beneath The Surface, TBP has a nod to BAI (IMO). Those just the few that pop into my head now, I remember hearing some ITPOE somewhere but it escapes me now.
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Along For The Ride has a nod to Beneath The Surface
Just because Jordan used the same patch? Gimme a break. With ADTOE, I can understand, some of it was uncannily like I&W, but I wouldn't call DT sounding like DT 'nods to past'.
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Along For The Ride has a nod to Beneath The Surface
Just because Jordan used the same patch? Gimme a break. With ADTOE, I can understand, some of it was uncannily like I&W, but I wouldn't call DT sounding like DT 'nods to past'.
Not just the same patch, but the runs he plays sounds similar, that's just my opinion, take it as you may see fit (with much annoyance as it seems to be so far). :\
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Along For The Ride has a nod to Beneath The Surface
Just because Jordan used the same patch? Gimme a break. With ADTOE, I can understand, some of it was uncannily like I&W, but I wouldn't call DT sounding like DT 'nods to past'.
Not just the same patch, but the runs he plays sounds similar, that's just my opinion, take it as you may see fit (with much annoyance as it seems to be so far). :\
I agree on that one, to an extent. I definitely noticed that on my first listen, not just that the patch was the same but that the melodic structure of that solo was very similar. But just because it's similar I wouldn't have thought it was an intentional "nod" unless those songs had something in common thematically, which as far as I know, they don't.
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Along For The Ride has a nod to Beneath The Surface
Just because Jordan used the same patch? Gimme a break. With ADTOE, I can understand, some of it was uncannily like I&W, but I wouldn't call DT sounding like DT 'nods to past'.
Not just the same patch, but the runs he plays sounds similar, that's just my opinion, take it as you may see fit (with much annoyance as it seems to be so far). :\
I agree on that one, to an extent. I definitely noticed that on my first listen, not just that the patch was the same but that the melodic structure of that solo was very similar. But just because it's similar I wouldn't have thought it was an intentional "nod" unless those songs had something in common thematically, which as far as I know, they don't.
If I have never noticed DT doing this in the past (by giving nods to either past work or other bands) I would not think much of it. We all agree that TLG and STR are nods to Rush, BTV nods to Metallica and/or Rush again with that opening riff (creeping death and/or Tom Sawyer to be exact). And if you look further back to 6doit, TGD has a huge nod to Tool's 46 & 2. Those are just moments from the top of my head. I'm sure there's lots more.
-
TEM is sadly a record holder for me, in that it sports three bad solos (keys, guitar, drums), and in fact IMHO it is Jordan's worst solo to date.
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I really love the beginning, but don't remember much about the song.
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TEM is sadly a record holder for me, in that it sports three bad solos (keys, guitar, drums), and in fact IMHO it is Jordan's worst solo to date.
Jordan's worst solo still is the bebot solo for me.
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TEM is sadly a record holder for me, in that it sports three bad solos (keys, guitar, drums), and in fact IMHO it is Jordan's worst solo to date.
Jordan's worst solo still is the bebot solo for me.
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TEM is sadly a record holder for me, in that it sports three bad solos (keys, guitar, drums), and in fact IMHO it is Jordan's worst solo to date.
Jordan's worst solo still is the bebot solo for me.
We're talking about the AROP solo right? If so, +1.
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TEM is sadly a record holder for me, in that it sports three bad solos (keys, guitar, drums), and in fact IMHO it is Jordan's worst solo to date.
1. It's not TEM.
2. How is that drum solo bad?
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I think EM is the weakest track on the album by far, but I really wouldn't consider the drum solo weak. It fits the song rather well and manages to still be complex.
-
2. How is that drum solo bad?
It sounds like a drum computer test patch, honestly. Exercise all drums available in a short amount of time.
-
Along For The Ride has a nod to Beneath The Surface
Just because Jordan used the same patch? Gimme a break. With ADTOE, I can understand, some of it was uncannily like I&W, but I wouldn't call DT sounding like DT 'nods to past'.
Not just the same patch, but the runs he plays sounds similar, that's just my opinion, take it as you may see fit (with much annoyance as it seems to be so far). :\
I agree on that one, to an extent. I definitely noticed that on my first listen, not just that the patch was the same but that the melodic structure of that solo was very similar. But just because it's similar I wouldn't have thought it was an intentional "nod" unless those songs had something in common thematically, which as far as I know, they don't.
The only thing that bothers me with that solo is that the first note hits like a nano second too late.
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I still don´t get why people complain about the duration of the drum solo/ drum fill in Enigma Machine...Portnoy did the same on As I Am, and I don´t see anybody complaining. They´re both great in my book.
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Nothing not to like on this one, and it will most likely be a BEAST live.
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^ Maaan I can't wait!!!
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Yeah, I can predict that Jordan will go pretty nuts with the Geo Synth solo, it's already so crazy on the album version. :metal
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This is such a good tune.
I'd probably rank the instrumentals:
1. Ytse Jam
2. Overture 1928
3. Enigma Machine
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. Erotomania
6. The Dance of Eternity
7. Stream of Consciousness
8. Overture
9. Raw Dog
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This is such a good tune.
I'd probably rank the instrumentals:
1. Ytse Jam
2. Overture 1928
3. Enigma Machine
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. Erotomania
6. The Dance of Eternity
7. Stream of Consciousness
8. Overture
9. Raw Dog
There's a little mistake in your ranking.
Actually it goes like this :
1. Stream of Consciousness
2. Hell's Kitchen
3. Erotomania
4. Overture 1928
5. Ytse Jam
6. The Dance of Eternity
7. Overture
8. Enigma Machine
9. Raw Dog (HAVEN'T HEARD THE SONG :D)
:)
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This is such a good tune.
I'd probably rank the instrumentals:
1. Ytse Jam
2. Overture 1928
3. Enigma Machine
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. Erotomania
6. The Dance of Eternity
7. Stream of Consciousness
8. Overture
9. Raw Dog
There's a little mistake in your ranking.
Actually it goes like this :
1. Stream of Consciousness
2. Hell's Kitchen
3. Erotomania
4. Overture 1928
5. Ytse Jam
6. The Dance of Eternity
7. Overture
8. Enigma Machine
9. Raw Dog (HAVEN'T HEARD THE SONG :D)
:)
I regret to inform you, but you're both wrong.
1. The Dance of Eternity
2. Overture 1928
3. Hell's Kitchen
4. Enigma Machine
5. Overture
6. Stream of Consciousness
7. Ytse Jam
8. Erotomania
9. Raw Dog (and yes, I actually like the song)
-
I love this tune and DT instrumentals in general. After my first few listens of DT12, EM was my favorite track on the album. It is still right up there for me (although IT has probably surpassed it).
-
This is such a good tune.
I'd probably rank the instrumentals:
1. Ytse Jam
2. Overture 1928
3. Enigma Machine
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. Erotomania
6. The Dance of Eternity
7. Stream of Consciousness
8. Overture
9. Raw Dog
There's a little mistake in your ranking.
Actually it goes like this :
1. Stream of Consciousness
2. Hell's Kitchen
3. Erotomania
4. Overture 1928
5. Ytse Jam
6. The Dance of Eternity
7. Overture
8. Enigma Machine
9. Raw Dog (HAVEN'T HEARD THE SONG :D)
:)
I regret to inform you, but you're both wrong.
1. The Dance of Eternity
2. Overture 1928
3. Hell's Kitchen
4. Enigma Machine
5. Overture
6. Stream of Consciousness
7. Ytse Jam
8. Erotomania
9. Raw Dog (and yes, I actually like the song)
Pardon me sirs but I think there are some mistakes on your lists:
1. Erotomania
2. Erotomania
3. Erotomania
4. Erotomania
5. Erotomania
6. Erotomania
7. Erotomania
8. Erotomania
9. Erotomania
-
This is such a good tune.
I'd probably rank the instrumentals:
1. Ytse Jam
2. Overture 1928
3. Enigma Machine
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. Erotomania
6. The Dance of Eternity
7. Stream of Consciousness
8. Overture
9. Raw Dog
There's a little mistake in your ranking.
Actually it goes like this :
1. Stream of Consciousness
2. Hell's Kitchen
3. Erotomania
4. Overture 1928
5. Ytse Jam
6. The Dance of Eternity
7. Overture
8. Enigma Machine
9. Raw Dog (HAVEN'T HEARD THE SONG :D)
:)
I regret to inform you, but you're both wrong.
1. The Dance of Eternity
2. Overture 1928
3. Hell's Kitchen
4. Enigma Machine
5. Overture
6. Stream of Consciousness
7. Ytse Jam
8. Erotomania
9. Raw Dog (and yes, I actually like the song)
Pardon me sirs but I think there are some mistakes on your lists:
1. Erotomania
2. Erotomania
3. Erotomania
4. Erotomania
5. Erotomania
6. Erotomania
7. Erotomania
8. Erotomania
9. Erotomania
Actually, as DT has 11 instrumentals, the list must be this way:
1. Eve
2. Eve
3. Eve
4. Eve
5. Eve
6. Eve
7. Eve
8. Eve
9. Eve
10. Eve
11. Eve
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You're all right, and my list is also different.
1. Stream of Consciousness
2. False Awakening Suite
3. Erotomania
4. Ytse Jam
5. Overture 1928
6. Enigma Machine
7. Hell's Kitchen
8. Overture
9. The Dance of Eternity
10. Raw Dog
11. Eve
Eve never clicked, regrettably! Seems devoid of incident. I'm conscious that three to six are all very similar. That might be why SoC and FAS have their top spots - very different songs. The long-form metal instrumental and the compact orchestral instrumental. Hell's Kitchen's great, nothing quite like it in the rest of their catalogue, it just has to be the right day for it. 8-11 all have flaws. Overture's wonderful but a little sprawling, The Dance of Eternity has a really very good first half and a second half that's nowhere near as interesting. Raw Dog's got some cracking riffs but it's not got that much structure, and Eve, despite some great guitar work, is very sleepy.
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[/quote]You're all right, and my list is also different.
1. Stream of Consciousness
2. False Awakening Suite
3. Erotomania
4. Ytse Jam
5. Overture 1928
6. Enigma Machine
7. Hell's Kitchen
8. Overture
9. The Dance of Eternity
10. Raw Dog
11. Eve
Eve never clicked, regrettably! Seems devoid of incident. I'm conscious that three to six are all very similar. That might be why SoC and FAS have their top spots - very different songs. The long-form metal instrumental and the compact orchestral instrumental. Hell's Kitchen's great, nothing quite like it in the rest of their catalogue, it just has to be the right day for it. 8-11 all have flaws. Overture's wonderful but a little sprawling, The Dance of Eternity has a really very good first half and a second half that's nowhere near as interesting. Raw Dog's got some cracking riffs but it's not got that much structure, and Eve, despite some great guitar work, is very sleepy.
What's crazy is we're all wrong and I am one of them. There are 12 instrumentals:
12. Hidden track at the end of DT12.
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Oh, yeah, totally - I didn't know if people consider that Illumination Theory or not! I don't, I think it's its own thing. I think it needs a name, actually. We should give it a fan nickname. "Know That You're Alive" or something.
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Oh, yeah, totally - I didn't know if people consider that Illumination Theory or not! I don't, I think it's its own thing. I think it needs a name, actually. We should give it a fan nickname. "Know That You're Alive" or something.
It's usually just referred to as the easter egg here, since that's what it was listed as on the whiteboard in the studio vids of DT leading up to the album. I've even got an officially written up setlist for the tour that lists it simply as "Easter Egg".
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Oh, yeah, totally - I didn't know if people consider that Illumination Theory or not! I don't, I think it's its own thing. I think it needs a name, actually. We should give it a fan nickname. "Know That You're Alive" or something.
It's usually just referred to as the easter egg here, since that's what it was listed as on the whiteboard in the studio vids of DT leading up to the album. I've even got an officially written up setlist for the tour that lists it simply as "Easter Egg".
You should have called it Dennis.
-
Oh, yeah, totally - I didn't know if people consider that Illumination Theory or not! I don't, I think it's its own thing. I think it needs a name, actually. We should give it a fan nickname. "Know That You're Alive" or something.
It's usually just referred to as the easter egg here, since that's what it was listed as on the whiteboard in the studio vids of DT leading up to the album. I've even got an officially written up setlist for the tour that lists it simply as "Easter Egg".
That's just a description, though, it's like calling a bonus feature "Bonus Feature," or calling an intro "Intro." Besides, people still don't really use "Easter Egg" all that much - Ministry just referred to it as the pithy "Hidden track at the end of DT12."
I don't know, it might be nice. I like the idea of giving it a fan nickname. Everything has a name, the intro to the Mirror has a name, the mid-section of A Nightmare to Remember has a name - False Awakening Suite uses three in under three minutes! If there's no appetite for it I won't bother, but I think it'd be cool to take a few suggestions and put them in a poll. Even if we do dub it "Dennis."
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Oh, yeah, totally - I didn't know if people consider that Illumination Theory or not! I don't, I think it's its own thing. I think it needs a name, actually. We should give it a fan nickname. "Know That You're Alive" or something.
It's usually just referred to as the easter egg here, since that's what it was listed as on the whiteboard in the studio vids of DT leading up to the album. I've even got an officially written up setlist for the tour that lists it simply as "Easter Egg".
That's just a description, though, it's like calling a bonus feature "Bonus Feature," or calling an intro "Intro." Besides, people still don't really use "Easter Egg" all that much - Ministry just referred to it as the pithy "Hidden track at the end of DT12."
I don't know, it might be nice. I like the idea of giving it a fan nickname. Everything has a name, the intro to the Mirror has a name, the mid-section of A Nightmare to Remember has a name - False Awakening Suite uses three in under three minutes! If there's no appetite for it I won't bother, but I think it'd be cool to take a few suggestions and put them in a poll. Even if we do dub it "Dennis."
As I said, everyone calls it easter egg, and as far as I know, DT hasn't given it a name beyond that themselves. But if you want to call it "duet for wizard and bear", I won't stop you!
-
The Wonderful Wizard of Bear.
-
Oh, yeah, totally - I didn't know if people consider that Illumination Theory or not! I don't, I think it's its own thing. I think it needs a name, actually. We should give it a fan nickname. "Know That You're Alive" or something.
It's usually just referred to as the easter egg here, since that's what it was listed as on the whiteboard in the studio vids of DT leading up to the album. I've even got an officially written up setlist for the tour that lists it simply as "Easter Egg".
That's just a description, though, it's like calling a bonus feature "Bonus Feature," or calling an intro "Intro." Besides, people still don't really use "Easter Egg" all that much - Ministry just referred to it as the pithy "Hidden track at the end of DT12."
I don't know, it might be nice. I like the idea of giving it a fan nickname. Everything has a name, the intro to the Mirror has a name, the mid-section of A Nightmare to Remember has a name - False Awakening Suite uses three in under three minutes! If there's no appetite for it I won't bother, but I think it'd be cool to take a few suggestions and put them in a poll. Even if we do dub it "Dennis."
My two official name submissions, if anyone ever makes a thread, are:
1. Dennis.
"Hey old man!"
"I'm not old I'm thirty seven!"
"Well, I couldn't just call you man!"
"You could have called me Dennis!"
"Well, I didn't know you were called Dennis!"
2. Freundschaftsbezeigungen - German for "demonstrations of friendship."
I don't know about calling John Petrucci "bear." It has an entirely different meaning when they play the Warfield. :lol
-
10. Raw Dog
11. Eve
We can't be friends.
-
If our friendship was only to be based on the mutual demonisation of Raw Dog, I think I can come to terms with that.
-
Considering the band said DT12 had a cinematic feel to it, and the easter egg is like after the end of a film, I think "End Credits" is a good name for it.
-
Considering the band said DT12 had a cinematic feel to it, and the easter egg is like after the end of a film, I think "End Credits" is a good name for it.
And given that it's apparently being used for end credits at the live shows too, I like that name.
-
Considering the band said DT12 had a cinematic feel to it, and the easter egg is like after the end of a film, I think "End Credits" is a good name for it.
And given that it's apparently being used for end credits at the live shows too, I like that name.
3rding that one.
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I always considered the easter egg to just be the ending of Illumination Theory :\
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I always considered the easter egg to just be the ending of Illumination Theory :\
same here, i guess it got two ends and easter egg is the final end
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I always considered the easter egg to just be the ending of Illumination Theory :\
same here, i guess it got two ends and easter egg is the final end
I thought it was a throwback to the old LP closer tracks they would use to fill the rest of the vinyl with music like the one at the end of Pyromania, by Def Leppard. I don't think any of those tracks ever had names.
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Considering the band said DT12 had a cinematic feel to it, and the easter egg is like after the end of a film, I think "End Credits" is a good name for it.
And given that it's apparently being used for end credits at the live shows too, I like that name.
We are in agreement, which means it should become the unofficial name for the song. :lol :lol
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I like End Credits also.
1. The Dance of Eternity
2. False Awakening Suite
3. Hell's Kitchen
4. Overture 1928
5. Ytse Jam
6. Erotomania
7. SDOIT Overture
8. Raw Dog
9. Stream of Consciousness
10. Enigma Machine
11. Eve
-
I'm sure I posted my instrumental rankings in another thread some time ago (can't remember which one), but if I had to do it as I feel they are now, it would go something like this:
1. Stream of Consciousness
2. Erotomania
3. Overture 1928
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. SDOIT Overture
6. Enigma Machine
7. The Dance of Eternity
8. False Awakening Suite
9. Eve
10. Ytse Jam
11. Raw Dog
It should be noted that the only one of these I can say I don't really enjoy all that much is Raw Dog. And I always considered the ending theme in IT to be....the ending to IT. :lol
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1. Eve
2. Ytse Jam
3. The Oakdale Odyssey (Okay, I'm a bit biased but meh)
4. Overture 1928
5. Hell's Kitchen
6. The Dance of Eternity
7. Overture
8. Easter Egg
9. Stream of Consciousness
10. Erotomania
11. Enigma Machine
12. False Awakening Suite
13. Raw Dog
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I forgot about Eve and FAS woops :lol
1. The Dance of Eternity
2. Overture 1928
3. Hell's Kitchen
4. Eve
5. Enigma Machine
6. Overture
7. False Awakening Suite
8. Stream of Consciousness
9. Ytse Jam
10. Erotomania
11. Raw Dog (and yes, I actually like the song)
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Out of songs on actual DT records I'd probably rank it:
1. Erotomania
2. Stream of Consciousness
3. Overture 1928
4. The Dance of Eternity
5. Enigma Machine
6. False Awakening Suite
7. Hell's Kitchen
8. Ytse Jam
Not counting SDOIT Overture since I consider it to be the song's intro and not a standalone.
-
Considering the band said DT12 had a cinematic feel to it, and the easter egg is like after the end of a film, I think "End Credits" is a good name for it.
And given that it's apparently being used for end credits at the live shows too, I like that name.
We are in agreement, which means it should become the unofficial name for the song. :lol :lol
We're in agreement, which means it should be the official name of the song, and DT should remaster and reprint the album with "End Credits" as a listed track.
-
Considering the band said DT12 had a cinematic feel to it, and the easter egg is like after the end of a film, I think "End Credits" is a good name for it.
And given that it's apparently being used for end credits at the live shows too, I like that name.
We are in agreement, which means it should become the unofficial name for the song. :lol :lol
We're in agreement, which means it should be the official name of the song, and DT should remaster and reprint the album with "End Credits" as a listed track.
Poor Dennis. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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I'm sorry, but who or what is Dennis? :huh:
As for Enigma Machine, it grew on me, but it's probably my least favourite instumental. It's probably good for what they intended to do, but emotionally it doesn't move me at all at any moment.
1. Hell's Kitchen (masterpiece)
2. Erotomania
3. Stream of Conciousness
4. Eve
5. "End Credits"
------------------
6. Ytse Jam
7. The Dance of Eternity
8. Enigma Machine
The above the line I consider :hefdaddy(2, 3, 4 and 5 are interchangeable), the others are good but not great.
Oh, and I don't count both Overtures or FAS because I think they are not the same kind of pieces and therefore can't be put in the same bag.
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I'm sorry, but who or what is Dennis? :huh:
As for Enigma Machine, it grew on me, but it's probably my least favourite instumental. It's probably good for what they intended to do, but emotionally it doesn't move me at all at any moment.
1. Hell's Kitchen (masterpiece)
2. Erotomania
3. Stream of Conciousness
4. Eve
5. "End Credits"
------------------
6. Ytse Jam
7. The Dance of Eternity
8. Enigma Machine
The above the line I consider :hefdaddy(2, 3, 4 and 5 are interchangeable), the others are good but not great.
Oh, and I don't count both Overtures or FAS because I think they are not the same kind of pieces and therefore can't be put in the same bag.
whats the difference? :3
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I'm sorry, but who or what is Dennis? :huh:
(https://images2.fanpop.com/images/quiz/214000/214814_1242958044021_500_276.jpg)
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If we're ranking instrumentals, my list would never be complete without Bombay Vindaloo. I know it's not a studio track, but it's my second favourite DT instrumental (after SoC). To me BV paints a vivid picture. It's got a story and a progression. None of the other instrumentals really do the same for me.
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Funny you say that, because it is basically a jam, not an actual composition. Which is probably why no one is including it.
BTW, I totally get why people wouldn't want to include an overture. But FAS is just another instrumental, no reason not to include it.
-
I've wondered about that actually! Like, a jam as in was it improvised? Or partly improvised?
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I'm sorry, but who or what is Dennis? :huh:
As for Enigma Machine, it grew on me, but it's probably my least favourite instumental. It's probably good for what they intended to do, but emotionally it doesn't move me at all at any moment.
1. Hell's Kitchen (masterpiece)
2. Erotomania
3. Stream of Conciousness
4. Eve
5. "End Credits"
------------------
6. Ytse Jam
7. The Dance of Eternity
8. Enigma Machine
The above the line I consider :hefdaddy(2, 3, 4 and 5 are interchangeable), the others are good but not great.
Oh, and I don't count both Overtures or FAS because I think they are not the same kind of pieces and therefore can't be put in the same bag.
whats the difference? :3
Well, the three of them serve the purpose of being intro pieces, to set the mood or the tone for what's about to come, none of them are meant to be heard as stand-alone instrumentals IMHO. I mean, they are the same in the way that there are no vocals, but I find them different kind of pieces in the way they were created, which makes them different. You can throw the others in the middle of any setlist anywhere, but these three only work as openers, so that's why I can't compare them to the others as they serve different purposes.
Bombay Vindaloo totaly fits the list however, I just forgot about it since it's not a studio instrumental. And yes, it was probably partly improvised, they obviously had a sort of frame to work with, as most jams do, but other than that it's probably improvised. Well, we could throw Instrumedley in there too, but my list is 100% studio instrumentals.
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Won't somebody please think of Instrumedley? D:
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whats the difference? :3
Well, the three of them serve the purpose of being intro pieces, to set the mood or the tone for what's about to come, none of them are meant to be heard as stand-alone instrumentals IMHO. I mean, they are the same in the way that there are no vocals, but I find them different kind of pieces in the way they were created, which makes them different. You can throw the others in the middle of any setlist anywhere, but these three only work as openers, so that's why I can't compare them to the others as they serve different purposes.
Bombay Vindaloo totaly fits the list however, I just forgot about it since it's not a studio instrumental. And yes, it was probably partly improvised, they obviously had a sort of frame to work with, as most jams do, but other than that it's probably improvised. Well, we could throw Instrumedley in there too, but my list is 100% studio instrumentals.
Okay bro! But yeah, you could exclude the easter egg with those same reasons :P
I've completely forgotten Bombay Vindaloo when talking about instrumentals o.o Great song/Jam!
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Won't somebody please think of Instrumedley? D:
Well, we kind of are already using the source material, and medleys suck.
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Won't somebody please think of Instrumedley? D:
Well, we kind of are already using the source material, and medleys suck.
^ This is correct.
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In regards to the easter egg of IT, I've always called it True Sleep on the Summit, sort of as an opposite to FAS.
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whats the difference? :3
Well, the three of them serve the purpose of being intro pieces, to set the mood or the tone for what's about to come, none of them are meant to be heard as stand-alone instrumentals IMHO. I mean, they are the same in the way that there are no vocals, but I find them different kind of pieces in the way they were created, which makes them different. You can throw the others in the middle of any setlist anywhere, but these three only work as openers, so that's why I can't compare them to the others as they serve different purposes.
Bombay Vindaloo totaly fits the list however, I just forgot about it since it's not a studio instrumental. And yes, it was probably partly improvised, they obviously had a sort of frame to work with, as most jams do, but other than that it's probably improvised. Well, we could throw Instrumedley in there too, but my list is 100% studio instrumentals.
Okay bro! But yeah, you could exclude the easter egg with those same reasons :P
Hmmm... yes and no? I have to agree, but it's actually the opposite, it's a "closing" piece, but yes, you're kind of right :P.
The thing is, you only hear the Overture if the whole Six Degrees is going to be played/listened, and they never played Overture 1928 without Strange Deja Vu as far as I'm concerned. And FAS is a concert/album opener meant to be an "intro tape", not to be played by the band. And if you consider that originally Illumination Theory was going to be the second track and was changed to the last in the last minute, it's kind of a weird "overture" to that too(not really though). That's the main difference between these and the other instrumentals, although I think I already made my point before :lol.
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whats the difference? :3
Well, the three of them serve the purpose of being intro pieces, to set the mood or the tone for what's about to come, none of them are meant to be heard as stand-alone instrumentals IMHO. I mean, they are the same in the way that there are no vocals, but I find them different kind of pieces in the way they were created, which makes them different. You can throw the others in the middle of any setlist anywhere, but these three only work as openers, so that's why I can't compare them to the others as they serve different purposes.
Bombay Vindaloo totaly fits the list however, I just forgot about it since it's not a studio instrumental. And yes, it was probably partly improvised, they obviously had a sort of frame to work with, as most jams do, but other than that it's probably improvised. Well, we could throw Instrumedley in there too, but my list is 100% studio instrumentals.
Okay bro! But yeah, you could exclude the easter egg with those same reasons :P
Hmmm... yes and no? I have to agree, but it's actually the opposite, it's a "closing" piece, but yes, you're kind of right :P.
The thing is, you only hear the Overture if the whole Six Degrees is going to be played/listened, and they never played Overture 1928 without Strange Deja Vu as far as I'm concerned. And FAS is a concert/album opener meant to be an "intro tape", not to be played by the band. And if you consider that originally Illumination Theory was going to be the second track and was changed to the last in the last minute, it's kind of a weird "overture" to that too(not really though). That's the main difference between these and the other instrumentals, although I think I already made my point before :lol.
Interesting... Where did you get this information? Did somebody said it in an interview? Do you have a link please? :)
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Interview on YouTube, I think it was one of the series the band did before the album was released, all I can remember of it was that it was JP and JLB on it, and the camera kept zooming in their faces somewhat randomly :lol. I'll try to find it, but it was quite some time ago, but I thinki it's among the Roadrunner ones.
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Found it! It's 20:30 into the interview so I had to hear it all over again, phew... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NNdWk45TsU
The good stuff comes at 10-15 minutes into the interview, everything before it's pretty boring, I warn you :P. (And NO, I have no idea what the questions are, I don't even know exactly what language it is) It wasn't before the album, I had that fact mixed up.
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I wonder what would've closed the album then. Nothing else from it is strong enough to close the album IMO.
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If you consider that originally Illumination Theory was going to be the second track and was changed to the last in the last minute, it's kind of a weird "overture" to that too(not really though). That's the main difference between these and the other instrumentals, although I think I already made my point before :lol
Cripes! I really couldn't imagine that... and then I played them back to back, and they really do flow very well indeed. Although The Enemy Inside was absolutely the right way to kick in, Illumination Theory is... surprisingly coherent, as the beginning of a ride, and the back-to-back flow from one to the other is brilliant. Works much better at the end, the big symphonic bit feels more "earned" at the end of this huge sixty minute odyssey, but I'm genuinely astonished at how well it still fits in pole position. I wonder how the rest of the album was to be structured.
[ETA: Funnily, having just finished the song, the one bit that really does suffer when you pop Illumination Theory at the start of the album, is the instrumental section in The Pursuit of Truth. At the end of the album, that's earnt, especially after they've spent fifty minutes being curt, but at the beginning, it feels like it's stalling, when you really want an opener to get to the point. I can totally imagine that final chord giving way to The Looking Glass, though.]
That's no reason to dismiss FAS as a proper instrumental, though - they didn't move it when they shifted Illumination Theory, it's totally its own statement. That's not me saying you're wrong, it's me saying I don't get it. It's not only a DT instrumental, I think it's an incredibly strong DT instrumental.
I wonder what would've closed the album then. Nothing else from it is strong enough to close the album IMO.
Maybe that's why they wrote the Easter Egg? Alternatively, JP always said he imagined The Bigger Picture closing a live set, maybe The Enemy Inside was in the middle and TBP was at the end? You're right, there isn't another obvious closer.
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It flows very well indeed, although it has too much "closing power" at the end not to be the final song, that's how I feel about it anyway, but it can very well operate to set the mood of the entire album.
Not all the closers have to be grand epics, DT has gotten us used to that lately, even though the last album ended up with a ballad after the "grand song" of the album, but it's not the only way to close an album. Space Dye Vest, Dissapear and Beneath The Surface close very well their respective albums(or discs) and they are not "epics". The problem is that once you're so used at listening the album in a certain way it's hard to shift the idea and consider alternatives. I always experiment on alternative tracklisting for all the albums but I haven't done it for this one yet, I'll have to explore :P.
One of the ideas I always had was splitting IT like ITPOE was, but I don't think it would work... :-\
By the way, I'm not dismissing anything, I never said the overtures and FAS are less than anything, in fact they are amazing, all I said is they are different, in a different category of DT "non vocal tracks", that's all.
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Am I first?......it can't be.... :yeahright
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcCH8ndt8qA
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Am I first?......it can't be.... :yeahright
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcCH8ndt8qA
Well that was... interesting....
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Am I first?......it can't be.... :yeahright
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcCH8ndt8qA
That is completely ludicrous and completely brilliant.
I think I'd have been tempted to go further, put the ballerinas in masks or something, make it totally otherworldly - the song's called Enigma Machine, it was made for ballerinas in gas masks! - but I think that's me looking at it as a music video first and a dance recital second, whereas actually I think it's meant to be the other way round. Love the idea. Very curious, very creative and very cool.
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I can't say that I like it, the dancer's make no sense, it looks like they're dancing to something else with Enigma Machine just randomly edited on top of it. For the most part it doesn't look like they're in sync with the actual song at all.
But kudos for thinking outside the box.
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I can't say that I like it, the dancer's make no sense, it looks like they're dancing to something else with Enigma Machine just randomly edited on top of it. For the most part it doesn't look like they're in sync with the actual song at all.
But kudos for thinking outside the box.
Yeah, this. That was horrible at the first. No need for second watch.
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Da Fuq??????? WOW........that was frikken bizzare...
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woohoo i liked Ballet Deviare's interpretation of "Enigma Machine" a lot..........this is what i wanted.........it was fucking brilliant :tup
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I can't say that I like it, the dancer's make no sense, it looks like they're dancing to something else with Enigma Machine just randomly edited on top of it. For the most part it doesn't look like they're in sync with the actual song at all.
But kudos for thinking outside the box.
Yeah, this. That was horrible at the first. No need for second watch.
Yea I feel the same. The ballerinas could have been so much better if they seemed to go with the music or even if they looked cooler. That was a cool idea that ended up being very uninteresting in the end. Oh well, I still like the song.
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I can't say that I like it, the dancer's make no sense, it looks like they're dancing to something else with Enigma Machine just randomly edited on top of it. For the most part it doesn't look like they're in sync with the actual song at all.
But kudos for thinking outside the box.
Yeah, this. That was horrible at the first. No need for second watch.
I agree. It looks like someone added the song to some random video.
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I can't say that I like it, the dancer's make no sense, it looks like they're dancing to something else with Enigma Machine just randomly edited on top of it. For the most part it doesn't look like they're in sync with the actual song at all.
But kudos for thinking outside the box.
Yeah, this. That was horrible at the first. No need for second watch.
Yea I feel the same. The ballerinas could have been so much better if they seemed to go with the music or even if they looked cooler. That was a cool idea that ended up being very uninteresting in the end. Oh well, I still like the song.
Oh and can't wait to hopefully see it live one week today in NYC!
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I do agree that the dancing and the music don't really sync up all that well, but I think part of that just comes with the territory of trying to choreograph a ballet routine with progressive metal. All things considered, I thought it was done pretty well and made for a cool video.
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I loved that video! :tup The fact that it doesn't sync up is not a bad thing at all, and very common in modern choreography. It would be pretty ridiculous to try to have ballet in crazy time signatures.
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My reaction is the same as to the song: meh.
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A for effort, but I didn't like it. And it wasn't the appropiate instrumental for this kind of choreography I think, I can imagine pulling off this sort of idea for Eve or Hell's Kitchen or even Stream of Consciousness, all who have a more "structured" flow. But Enigma Machine or Ytse Jam are too irregular and too fast paced to fit. Cool idea, but it didn't do anything for me.
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My reaction is the same as to the song: meh.
Same here. If nothing else I have to give them credit for capturing the essence of the song in the video clip. :lol
I realise that most parts of the song would be difficult to sync the girls up with, but other parts would be pretty easy. I think it's a missed opportunty. They could have had the dancers dance in sync with the easy parts and had the weird sci-fi lab stuff when that wasn't going to work. Also the editing is strange, it could have synced up at times aswell (probably would have helped since it's an instrumental too), and it doesn't match the pace of the song at all. What's with all the slow pans and slow fading between scenes in a video clip for such a fast-paced song? It just seems so contradictory.
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It would be pretty ridiculous to try to have ballet in crazy time signatures.
That should have been the first sign.
WTF that's the weirdest DT-related thing I've ever seen.
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It would be pretty ridiculous to try to have ballet in crazy time signatures.
That should have been the first sign.
People would have said the same thing about rock and roll, fifty years ago.
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That was just terrible and cringe-worthy in my opinion. The way the dance didn't sync up with the music made it even worse.
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Huh, I thought it synced up fine for the style of dance (it didn't seem just like random motions). Ballet sometimes is a little "looser" in terms of sync even with regular songs, as they flow from movement to movement rather than quickly shift (like a hip hop locking routine).
That said, I thought the video was only okay, but I do applaud them for trying something different. Also, I think this is the first time a DT album has had three music videos since I&W!
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cringe city
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I wasn't even going to bother watching this until just reading that it was an actual music video, and not just a dance group doing a performance to the song.
And um uhhhhhhh ok. What. Was. That.
At no point did I get the impression the dancing was related to the music, and then they have this random guy supposed to be "sciency" because he's poking a screwdriver into a typewriter with a bunch of tubes attached, oh and a microscope, because those always look like science.
Just when you thought it couldn't get any weirder, then they turn the ballerinas into minority report precogs bathing in milk, and they're clearly in pain at seeing a future vision of the finished music video. And then the random plot twist at the end.
I don't know what to make of that. A music video for an instrumental track, with ballerinas, and a vaguely science themed setting.
They could have saved themselves some time and money, and just used Mika Tyyska's DT vs DT video instead.
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I'm quite upset they didn't use Mika's DT vs DT animation. It helps make the song that I love so much better..
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I'm quite upset they didn't use Mika's DT vs DT animation. It helps make the song that I love so much better..
:iagree:
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While I agree that there's not necessarily a need for beat synch-up in modern dance, I think at least following the tune in its intensity would have been good. I too got the "dance recital" vibe from it.
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Worst. Video. Ever. I prefer the PMU video.
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I'm quite upset they didn't use Mika's DT vs DT animation. It helps make the song that I love so much better..
This. I just watched the new video for the first time, and I don't like it at all. It just doesn't make sense at all!
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I'm quite upset they didn't use Mika's DT vs DT animation. It helps make the song that I love so much better..
That would be good. I think they should use that when they do the festivals, actually - it allows Dream Theater to really let rip, but in a way that's still entertaining even if you're not too struck on the idea of a six minute instrumental. Gives the crowd something to hang it on, turns a hard sell into a story. "Oh, yeah, there was this one crazy band..."
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Wow, the YouTube comments are pretty bad.
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Man, that wasn't a great video :| I hate to say that, but it really just didn't fit too well. Then again, I'm not sure why in the world they'd give Enigma Machine a video. Behind The Veil is much more deserving in concept (EM doesn't even really have one... such an odd choice) and the song is much better, but DT seem to be pretending it doesn't exist lately. :tdwn
EM still ranking as my least favorite track on the album. It just feels "narrow" for a lack of a better descriptor. Reminds me of Raw Dog a lot actually.
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My girlf does ballet. I'd like to ask her opinion on this. But I'm not going to. I don't want to put her off DT and frankly this vid is pretty embarrassing.
I don't know about other folk here, but I am getting a bit fed up of DT missing these marketing tricks. I'd rather they just stopped trying to market because it seems that when they do, they are very wide of very obvious marks. It seems that whoever is behind this stuff has the seed of a good idea, but then goes with the first thing that's thrown out instead of working to refine the output in to something credible.
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It would be pretty ridiculous to try to have ballet in crazy time signatures.
That should have been the first sign.
People would have said the same thing about rock and roll, fifty years ago.
If they would have said it about trying to have ballet set to rock and roll in crazy time signatures, they would have been right.
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My reaction is the same as to the song: meh.
Yeah, pretty much this.
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Hmm.
I hate to say it but that video was too progressive for me.
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My girlf does ballet.
Girl or milf? :neverusethis:
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I kind of try to respect any form of art but that ballet act and the song don't match. I have tried to feel something special about it but it never happened.
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Such a fun song. Totally rocking and just a thrill to listen to. :metal
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It took me some time to figure out what Mangini was trying to do with his drum solo fill. When I finally got it, I found myself laughing everytime I hear it. LOL
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It took me some time to figure out what Mangini was trying to do with his drum solo fill. When I finally got it, I found myself laughing everytime I hear it. LOL
Can you elaborate this please?
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It took me some time to figure out what Mangini was trying to do with his drum solo fill. When I finally got it, I found myself laughing everytime I hear it. LOL
Can you elaborate this please?
The theme of Enigma Machine is goofy retro spy TV series. It reflects in the main melody, the riffs, JM's solos, and the funny part where JR, JP and JM echoed the same goofy melody.
So what MM did is a fill that sounds like a goofy retro slapstick gag in a Looney Tunes cartoon, where somebody is slowly winding up a metal strip or a contraption, then it accidentally violently unwinds and catapults away something. Maybe Wile E. Coyote. :lol
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Oh, I thought this was going to be an actual thing, and not just another fan theory interpretation.
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I'm really tired of your condescencion. What, if it's a song you like like Octavarium fans coukd interpret sll they want but when it's a song you don't like, you always chime in for a putdown? Every time I see a response from you in a thread I am posting in, I almost always brace myself for another bullshit condescending post that makes me want to quit this forum.
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I'm really tired of your condescencion. What, if it's a song you like like Octavarium fans coukd interpret sll they want but when it's a song you don't like, you always chime in for a putdown? Every time I see a response from you in a thread I am posting in, I almost always brace myself for another bullshit condescending post that makes me want to quit this forum.
If that's going to be your attitude whenever someone doesn't agree with your opinions being presented as facts, then quite frankly, I'm all for it. Read my post, and read your post, and consider which one would really make someone want to leave the forum.
Had you simply presented your interpretation straight up for what it was, instead of building it up as a new piece of information, you would not have gotten that kind of response.
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???
I don't see how erwinrafael's post was presented as a fact; it was a cool "here's a fun interpretation of the song" post, I thought. And saying you'd be all for him leaving? That was more than rude.
erwinrafael, fear not. Some of us really got a kick out of your interpretation. :tup :tup
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???
I don't see how erwinrafael's post was presented as a fact
(https://i.imgflip.com/o46ue.jpg)
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???
I don't see how erwinrafael's post was presented as a fact; it was a cool "here's a fun interpretation of the song" post, I thought. And saying you'd be all for him leaving? That was more than rude.
erwinrafael, fear not. Some of us really got a kick out of your interpretation. :tup :tup
He didn't present it like "here's a cool interpretation", he said "I finally got it.... here's what he did", which states it as if it is it's absolute and intentional. In no way was his response to my post warranted or justified in either case. You think what I said was rude? Skipped over his reply did we? Of course you did. ;)
But of course you're impartial here. :rollin
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I'm not going to derail this thread any further with any silly arguing with you, but I will say that it should be more than obvious that people are posting their opinions here in general, not facts. And to the best of my knowledge, erwinrafael is not someone who comes off as a know-it-all who thinks his opinions ARE facts, so he should get the "his posts are his opinions" benefit of the doubt that almost everyone here gets. I mean, do we really need to start putting disclaimers that say, "Any time I say anything, it is my OPINION." :lol :lol
Anyhoooo, Wil E. Coyote and Enigma Machine...love that interpretation, erwinrafael. :tup :tup
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I'm not going to derail this thread any further with any silly arguing with you, but I will say that it should be more than obvious that people are posting their opinions here in general, not facts. And to the best of my knowledge, erwinrafael is not someone who comes off as a know-it-all who thinks his opinions ARE facts, so he should get the "his posts are his opinions" benefit of the doubt that almost everyone here gets. I mean, do we really need to start putting disclaimers that say, "Any time I say anything, it is my OPINION." :lol :lol
Anyhoooo, Wil E. Coyote and Enigma Machine...love that interpretation, erwinrafael. :tup :tup
In general it is obvious that it's just opinion, except.......
It took me some time to figure out what Mangini was trying to do with his drum solo fill. When I finally got it, I found myself laughing everytime I hear it. LOL
......this is how he presented it. That's not posted as if it's "obviously" an opinion, it was posted as if it was definite and intentional what MM had done, something to "figure out". In the context of that, my response was absolutely fine, and I was simply pointing out that I was expecting a factual analysis that the rhythm or melody matched something, and not just an opinion of it sounding cartoony. Mountain out of a molehill by erwinrafael's competely overblown response.
And let's not even get into the IT thing.
Anywhoooooo, I'm not going to derail this thread any further with any silly arguing with you (especially as it was actually none of your business). Fun interpretation, but as I said, just call it what it is next time.
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......this is how he presented it. That's not posted as if it's "obviously" an opinion, it was posted as if it was definite and intentional what MM had done, something to "figure out". In the context of that, my response was absolutely fine, and I was simply pointing out that I was expecting a factual analysis that the rhythm or melody matched something, and not just an opinion of it sounding cartoony. Mountain out of a molehill by erwinrafael's competely overblown response.
Can't say I agree here. I saw nothing that would imply what he was stating was absolute fact.
As for the insults, both of you are guilty of escalating here, so consider this a friendly reminder to the both of you to keep things civil in future. If you have a problem with a post, just report and do not respond. That's what the mod team is for.
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My theory about the EM drum solo is that during writing, they left a fixed set of bars for MM to do a drum solo. MM probably wanted to showcase a bit, so he kinda crammed all that stuff into those few bars. Wouldn't be surprised if the spot was specifically written to be the "live drum solo" spot.
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So I just listened to the song again for the first time in a long time (a year, maybe?), and it's better than I remembered. Maybe I should bust out DT12 again and see whether my opinion on it has changed.
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erwinrafael, fear not. Some of us really got a kick out of your interpretation. :tup :tup
Thanks, Kev. I came to my interpretation (hope it is clear now) when I tried to play the fill (I can not play it, I am nowhere near that level) or at least picture to my mind how it would be played. And then I watched videos of Mike playing it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DpDGlTmUM8&feature=youtu.be&t=7m28s
https://youtu.be/mNqMVr7c3Cs?t=58s
First four movements is "winding" in an ascending loop (see his arms going forward or to the center of his kit) and then it "unwinds" and loops back fast (his arms go the reverse way of how he was moving slowly forward earlier), then zips to the cannon drums (for what i perceive is the catapult effect).
Some drummers did tutorials of this fill on a regular drum kit. They did not get it exactly, but they did get the basics of it. In a regular drum kit, the "winding up", the "unwinding" and the "catapult" is seen better because you see the arms going counter-clockwise to the left, reversing to the right and then zipping.
https://youtu.be/4JgQ95miYe4?t=5m55s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v9GU_oDQik
So its not some random filling up of bars with so many hits. There is a method, a melody even, if you get the pattern.
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My theory about the EM drum solo is that during writing, they left a fixed set of bars for MM to do a drum solo. MM probably wanted to showcase a bit, so he kinda crammed all that stuff into those few bars. Wouldn't be surprised if the spot was specifically written to be the "live drum solo" spot.
True, and it worked well in the live setting. This song was always solid IMO, but worked better live.
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I love the Enigma Machine drum solo, I was instantly blown away and came to appreciate it even more after I understood what's going on. It actually prompted me to buy a set of octobans and to make this little video: https://www.facebook.com/laszlo.szikszay/videos/vob.100001140241019/823186611062673/?type=2&theater
The BTFW drum solo is extremely enjoyable, largely thanks to the great, punchy and powerful drum sound.
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That's gold, Sycsa. :rollin
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???
I don't see how erwinrafael's post was presented as a fact; it was a cool "here's a fun interpretation of the song" post, I thought. And saying you'd be all for him leaving? That was more than rude.
erwinrafael, fear not. Some of us really got a kick out of your interpretation. :tup :tup
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Exactly. Jeez. So tired of the whole "That's your opinion not a fact" bs
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It's not a bad instrumental, but I'm sick of it. I wish my phone would play something else from that album when it's on shuffle...
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I was too underwhelmed by the uncanny references to BC&SL in this song to appreciate any of it.
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I was too underwhelmed by the uncanny references to BC&SL in this song to appreciate any of it.
Besides The Count of Tuscany, what other references are there?
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I was too underwhelmed by the uncanny references to BC&SL in this song to appreciate any of it.
Besides The Count of Tuscany, what other references are there?
Isn't there some similarity with the "beautiful agony" part of ANTR?