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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: KevShmev on September 24, 2013, 07:48:18 AM
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Listening to this, is struck me: were the lyrics to this song inspired by the Cleveland kidnapper of those three young girls? It sure sounds like it. But does the timeline match it, as far as when the lyrics were written? The Cleveland story broke in May.
Anyway, I am a big fan of this song, regardless of who or what inspired the lyrics. It kind of has that classic DT vibe going on at times, while still having a fresh and new sound. :metal
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I like this song a lot, one of my very favourites on the album. I especially love the strong and catchy chorus.
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I think JP mentioned the subject was kidnapping, but nothing specific. Great song btw :metal
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Listening to this, is struck me: were the lyrics to this song inspired by the Cleveland kidnapper of those three young girls? It sure sounds like it. But does the timeline match it, as far as when the lyrics were written? The Cleveland story broke in May.
Anyway, I am a big fan of this song, regardless of who or what inspired the lyrics. It kind of has that classic DT vibe going on at times, while still having a fresh and new sound. :metal
I was just checking out the lyrics now. It seems too general to be referring to anything specific but that doesn't mean the Cleveland incident wasn't some sort of inspiration. It's the same as Along For The Ride. JP said he wrote that song after hearing about the Boston Marathon bombings. The lyrics don't specifically refer to them but the inspiration is there. :smiley:
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Listening to this, is struck me: were the lyrics to this song inspired by the Cleveland kidnapper of those three young girls? It sure sounds like it. But does the timeline match it, as far as when the lyrics were written? The Cleveland story broke in May.
Anyway, I am a big fan of this song, regardless of who or what inspired the lyrics. It kind of has that classic DT vibe going on at times, while still having a fresh and new sound. :metal
I actually remember JP said that on some interview. Might be wrong though.
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Both BTV and AFTR have some of the finest lyrics of the entire album IMO :tup
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My favorite song on the album, too bad only this one and TBP make me go :hefdaddy
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LOVE this song! First few notes I'm taken back to being at a Yes show opening with Firebird Suite and then the atmosphere section
lulls you until the riff comes along and smacks you upside the head. 2nd favorite song behind IT.
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Listening to this, is struck me: were the lyrics to this song inspired by the Cleveland kidnapper of those three young girls? It sure sounds like it. But does the timeline match it, as far as when the lyrics were written? The Cleveland story broke in May.
Anyway, I am a big fan of this song, regardless of who or what inspired the lyrics. It kind of has that classic DT vibe going on at times, while still having a fresh and new sound. :metal
I actually remember JP said that on some interview. Might be wrong though.
in the dutch metal magazine 'Aardschok' JP explains the song texts and refers to the Cleveland kidnapper when explaining BTV.
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I like this song a lot, one of my very favourites on the album. I especially love the strong and catchy chorus.
This. My early favourite thanks to the huge chorus.
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This song is total joy to my ears. An instant classic. If the rest of the album had this song structure and focus, DT 12 would be my favourite album. I seriously cannot get enough of this song. The intro and when the band kicks in chills my spine. I love the breakdown in the prechorus and the way JLB sounds. It just gets better with every passing second and JP's solo is spectacular. I can't describe accurately in words how much I love this tune. Hands down my highlight of the album. Perfect in every way.
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Great song! I luv the chorus and overall feeling of the song. I would change anything
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Love this song! Great main heavy riff and a great hook! JP's solo is really nice and MM sounds really good on this track as well.
:tup
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I love the vocals when jlb sings "hour"
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I'm particularly fond of the intro and solo section. At this point, I'm thinking TBP -> BTV -> STR is the best run on the album.
-J
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I love the vocals when jlb sings "hour"
I do too!!!
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OK, the box set is released with the stems on it. Get remixing! :metal
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The chorus reminds me of Outcry.
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The chorus reminds me of Outcry.
Rise up be counted, look behind the veil :metal
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Listening to this, is struck me: were the lyrics to this song inspired by the Cleveland kidnapper of those three young girls? It sure sounds like it. But does the timeline match it, as far as when the lyrics were written? The Cleveland story broke in May.
I read this before actually listening to the song(album), and you're right. Fits the lyrics perfectly.
On another note, I love that intro.
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Can someone please tell me what time sig the first verse is in...I'm too stoned to count out that isht right now.
Also - great tune. Bit of a Rush meets Megadave vibe. A top 2 or 3 song for me, and probs #1 vocally.
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Can someone please tell me what time sig the first verse is in...I'm too stoned to count out that isht right now.
3 bars of 4/4 then one bar of 7/8 cycled three times, then just 4 bars of 4/4 into the pre chorus.
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That odd #'d eighth note keeps tripping me. Half wondered if it was an odd #'d bar of 16th notes. Now i just feel dumb.
Anyways, thanx.
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I quite like this song, it's just the pre-chorus and chorus stopping me from really loving it.
I love the intro, the heavy riffing, JLB during those verses, and the instrumental section (dat solo), but I don't like the pre-chorus and chorus as much.
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This song is growing on me more and more. I still can't get past that "Creeping Death" guitar intro part though. Knowing what the lyrics are about makes the song more powerful in my opinion. I love how the mood of the chorus changes when it's coming from the voice of the victim as opposed to the cruel sounding verse describing the kidnapper.
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Every time this song starts I hear a voice in my head saying "A gallop snapshot poll taken immediately after President Bush's speach..." :)
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I still can't get past that "Creeping Death" guitar intro part though.
I don't see any similarity to Creeping Death there :huh:
Every time this song starts I hear a voice in my head saying "A gallop snapshot poll taken immediately after President Bush's speach..." :)
Same here :lol
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This song I'd say is my fav on the album. The chorus is massive, the riffs are insane and JP's solo could be the best guitar solo he's ever done IMO.
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That odd #'d eighth note keeps tripping me. Half wondered if it was an odd #'d bar of 16th notes. Now i just feel dumb.
Anyways, thanx.
Is it weird that I kept reading "#'d" as "sharped"? Then in context, it didn't make sense... "odd sharped eighth note"...wait...what? Then I realized you probably meant "numbered", but the musician in me read the symbol as a sharp :lol
-Marc.
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I still can't get past that "Creeping Death" guitar intro part though.
I don't see any similarity to Creeping Death there :huh:
Really? I thought it was blatantly obvious that there were similarities.
Is it just me or is there no one else who hears the similarities?
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I still can't get past that "Creeping Death" guitar intro part though.
I don't see any similarity to Creeping Death there :huh:
Really? I thought it was blatantly obvious that there were similarities.
Is it just me or is there no one else who hears the similarities?
Yeah, I guess I can see how you would think that actually. It never sprung to my mind, and I don't think it's really similar at all, just a similar feel in the riff.
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I could be wrong, but the lyrics seem to fit a lot more with the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping story. The veil that her kidnapper put on her was a pretty big deal in the case. Check out this article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328204/Elizabeth-Smart-kidnapper-refused-let-detective-veil.html
and also:
https://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2010/11/elizabeth-smart-the-veil-and-religion.html
I think that Amanda Berry and the other 2 girls in the Cleveland kidnapping case also wore veils sometimes when Ariel Castro let them outside (on only a few occasions), so the lyrics can definitely be generalized to cover both cases, or perhaps even any kidnapping case involving a veil.
But Elizabeth Smart's veil in particular garnered a lot of media attention and articles, so I really think this case may account for the bulk of the chorus lyrics. Again, I could be totally wrong, just wanted to throw this out there.
Awesome song by the way!! Currently tied with Surrender To Reason for my favorite on the album. In fact, I prob like BTV the slightest bit more. Screw it, fav. song on the album. :metal
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I love the way he sings 'hour'
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I love the vocals when jlb sings "hour"
I love the way he sings 'hour'
Are you gonna tell us that every hour (or two)? :lol
-Marc.
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One of my favorites on the album. Great chorus.
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I reckon this is my second favourite on the album. The intro is really great, very cinematic and different, although I can understand why some people like the intro and not the rest of the song or vice versa.
After the intro or is a really solid heavier DT song. The instrumental is amazing, and my favourite bit of the song (and one if the best parts of the album) is toward the end of it with a huge riff that continues through the last chorus.
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I see absolutely zero need for the intro. But when the song starts for reals, it's my favorite on the album (and JP's best solo on the record also).
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I could be wrong, but the lyrics seem to fit a lot more with the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping story. The veil that her kidnapper put on her was a pretty big deal in the case. Check out this article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328204/Elizabeth-Smart-kidnapper-refused-let-detective-veil.html
and also:
https://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2010/11/elizabeth-smart-the-veil-and-religion.html
I think that Amanda Berry and the other 2 girls in the Cleveland kidnapping case also wore veils sometimes when Ariel Castro let them outside (on only a few occasions), so the lyrics can definitely be generalized to cover both cases, or perhaps even any kidnapping case involving a veil.
But Elizabeth Smart's veil in particular garnered a lot of media attention and articles, so I really think this case may account for the bulk of the chorus lyrics. Again, I could be totally wrong, just wanted to throw this out there.
Awesome song by the way!! Currently tied with Surrender To Reason for my favorite on the album. In fact, I prob like BTV the slightest bit more. Screw it, fav. song on the album. :metal
Ahh thanks for the background. Now I understand the veil reference. Didn't follow the story at all.
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Overall I wasnt the biggest fan of this album, but this song was great!
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Overall I wasnt the biggest fan of this album, but this song was great!
was? was?
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The intro to this song sounds really really nice! Its a shame that the song that follows, is nothing special.
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That odd #'d eighth note keeps tripping me. Half wondered if it was an odd #'d bar of 16th notes. Now i just feel dumb.
Anyways, thanx.
Is it weird that I kept reading "#'d" as "sharped"? Then in context, it didn't make sense... "odd sharped eighth note"...wait...what? Then I realized you probably meant "numbered", but the musician in me read the symbol as a sharp :lol
-Marc.
like I said, I was stoned...might not have made sense at the best of times.
in other news, now that illumination theory has REALLY grown on me, BTV might only be my 3rd fav on the album.
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I love the vocals when jlb sings "hour"
I love the way he sings 'hour'
Are you gonna tell us that every hour (or two)? :lol
-Marc.
He's due for another check-in.
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So did anyone play with the isolated stems for this song included in the boxset?
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My box set arrived this morning and I've been listening to a few minutes of different stems at work. Nice to have separate backing vocals and solos this time. There are a few harmony lines by JP backing the choruses that have a definite Queensr˙che feel. Cool to hear them separately as they're not too prominent in the mix.
Greetings...
Nef
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Love this song. The beginning kind of reminds me of The Great Debate with the way the synth sounds, it creates a similar atmosphere. The actual melody of the verses reminds me of the beginning synth of Hell's Kitchen for whatever reason, has a little bit of a resemblance to me. Also, the synth patch used at 1:49 reminds me Majesty as well as WDADU.
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This song gets better and better with each listen. So awesome.
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The intro to this song sounds really really nice! Its a shame that the song that follows, is nothing special.
this.
the intro has nothing to do with the rest of the song. If they would have segued into something off of the intro and worked from there this could have been awesome. When I hear songs like this it makes me wish they'd get and outside producer.
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The intro to this song sounds really really nice! Its a shame that the song that follows, is nothing special.
this.
the intro has nothing to do with the rest of the song. If they would have segued into something off of the intro and worked from there this could have been awesome. When I hear songs like this it makes me wish they'd get and outside producer.
Seems like a fickle complaint to me. I think it's a great introduction. The intro lulls you into a trance and then a Metallica-style riff slaps you in the face out of nowhere. It's supposed to be totally jarring and upsetting. If I were setting a music video to that song-- and I think it would have made a better single w/ video than TEI-- I could think of a million ways to sequence that visually.
There are tons of classic songs that have similar transitions. Since I (and numerous other people) have mentioned the Metallica influence, Damage Inc. and Fight Fire with Fire are two right off the top of my head that achieve the same effect. How about Bridges in the Sky for a more recent example? Musically, I guess that intro has zero to do with the flurry of riffs that follow it.
Also forgot to mention...favorite guitar solo on the album :tup
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Also forgot to mention...favorite guitar solo on the album :tup
Yes!! This solo is fantastic.....my favorite on the album as well.
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It's a top 5 JP solo already for me, incredible.
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It's a top 5 JP solo already for me, incredible.
JP's sweep during the final chorus....makes me curse and hit something every time. How many friggin fingers does that guy have on his left hand?
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The intro to this song sounds really really nice! Its a shame that the song that follows, is nothing special.
this.
the intro has nothing to do with the rest of the song. If they would have segued into something off of the intro and worked from there this could have been awesome. When I hear songs like this it makes me wish they'd get and outside producer.
Seems like a fickle complaint to me. I think it's a great introduction. The intro lulls you into a trance and then a Metallica-style riff slaps you in the face out of nowhere. It's supposed to be totally jarring and upsetting. If I were setting a music video to that song-- and I think it would have made a better single w/ video than TEI-- I could think of a million ways to sequence that visually.
There are tons of classic songs that have similar transitions. Since I (and numerous other people) have mentioned the Metallica influence, Damage Inc. and Fight Fire with Fire are two right off the top of my head that achieve the same effect. How about Bridges in the Sky for a more recent example? Musically, I guess that intro has zero to do with the flurry of riffs that follow it.
Also forgot to mention...favorite guitar solo on the album :tup
point 1. How do you know it supposed to be jarring and upsetting, were you there when they were recording it?
point 2. The intro to Bridges in the Sky actually has something to do with the song, where as the intro to BTV doesn't.
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It's a top 5 JP solo already for me, incredible.
JP's sweep during the final chorus....makes me curse and hit something every time. How many friggin fingers does that guy have on his left hand?
6, I count 6.
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I quite like this song, it's just the pre-chorus and chorus stopping me from really loving it.
I love the intro, the heavy riffing, JLB during those verses, and the instrumental section (dat solo), but I don't like the pre-chorus and chorus as much.
But... but... DAT CHORUS.
I really like this song, it's my number 4 on the album. Everything going on is great (even if when the full band comes in it's a little bit too overly Metallica-like) but its the chorus that really stands out for me. SO CATCHY!
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I initially didn't like how the chorus was slower than the rest of the song, but I'm starting to accept it.
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Behind the Veil just clicked for me. Really cool song.
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This song has officially made it to my favorite on the album. I can't listen to it enough.
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The intro to this song sounds really really nice! Its a shame that the song that follows, is nothing special.
this.
the intro has nothing to do with the rest of the song. If they would have segued into something off of the intro and worked from there this could have been awesome. When I hear songs like this it makes me wish they'd get and outside producer.
Seems like a fickle complaint to me. I think it's a great introduction. The intro lulls you into a trance and then a Metallica-style riff slaps you in the face out of nowhere. It's supposed to be totally jarring and upsetting. If I were setting a music video to that song-- and I think it would have made a better single w/ video than TEI-- I could think of a million ways to sequence that visually.
There are tons of classic songs that have similar transitions. Since I (and numerous other people) have mentioned the Metallica influence, Damage Inc. and Fight Fire with Fire are two right off the top of my head that achieve the same effect. How about Bridges in the Sky for a more recent example? Musically, I guess that intro has zero to do with the flurry of riffs that follow it.
Also forgot to mention...favorite guitar solo on the album :tup
2112's intro comes to mind. Perhaps an influence?
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Actually skipped it on plays 3 - about 10. But absolutely wearing it out now. JP does so much during the chorus and verses and then the solo, with the smokey, nasty ending, then the ridiculous sweep. A LOT to hear in this song.
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I initially didn't like how the chorus was slower than the rest of the song, but I'm starting to accept it.
same. probably my old "dislike" about it
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The bridge part right before JP's solo is probably my favorite JR moment on the album. Awesome musically and sound selection wise.
Also doesn't hurt that it leads into one of JP's most impressive solo's in a while :o Already a classic/favorite DT instrumental section for me. I'm slowly warming up to the rest of the song.
Also, the synth patch used at 1:49 reminds me Majesty as well as WDADU.
Ah, I'm not the only one :biggrin: I get strong WDADU vibes from both that part and the pre chorus.
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The intro to this song sounds really really nice! Its a shame that the song that follows, is nothing special.
this.
the intro has nothing to do with the rest of the song. If they would have segued into something off of the intro and worked from there this could have been awesome. When I hear songs like this it makes me wish they'd get and outside producer.
Seems like a fickle complaint to me. I think it's a great introduction. The intro lulls you into a trance and then a Metallica-style riff slaps you in the face out of nowhere. It's supposed to be totally jarring and upsetting. If I were setting a music video to that song-- and I think it would have made a better single w/ video than TEI-- I could think of a million ways to sequence that visually.
There are tons of classic songs that have similar transitions. Since I (and numerous other people) have mentioned the Metallica influence, Damage Inc. and Fight Fire with Fire are two right off the top of my head that achieve the same effect. How about Bridges in the Sky for a more recent example? Musically, I guess that intro has zero to do with the flurry of riffs that follow it.
Also forgot to mention...favorite guitar solo on the album :tup
point 1. How do you know it supposed to be jarring and upsetting, were you there when they were recording it?
point 2. The intro to Bridges in the Sky actually has something to do with the song, where as the intro to BTV doesn't.
Point 1: it's plainly obvious. The difference between the two sections is so night and day that it's virtually impossible the band did not perceive the musical implications of their own writing. The shocking thing is that so many listeners seem to be completely oblivious to it-- rather they think DT just had a random piece they threw into something without giving anything any thought to its effect within the context of the song.
Point 2. The only thing that intro has to do with the song is that it's the shaman. If you didn't know what the song was about you would perceive no relevance. If DT came out tomorrow and made something up about what the BTV intro was meant to represent in the context of the song you would then like it? Musically speaking that intro has as little to do with the song as BTV's. By the way, I think both are great intros.
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Am I imagining it, or does the chime from Cygnus X-1 make an appearance quietly in the background in the intro?
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I still can't get past that "Creeping Death" guitar intro part though.
I don't see any similarity to Creeping Death there :huh:
Really? I thought it was blatantly obvious that there were similarities.
Is it just me or is there no one else who hears the similarities?
I love this song, probably my favorite on the album at this point. As far as the nod to Creeping Death....I 100% agree. It just has to be a nod to Metallica, too similar. That being said, there was something sonicly familiar about this song after the first dozen spins and I couldn't quite but my finger on it. Well...it finally hit me what it was. I've heard a LOT off other bands influences in DT's music over the years.... but I NEVER expected this one. I've never heard the band talk about this band influencing them. Call me crazy.... but the chorus, especially the end of each vocal line, sounds VERY much like STYX. If I had too pick a song, I'd say a "Man in the Wilderness" vibe for sure. The lil guitar licks after each chorus line takes me back to those Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight days. I don't know if it was an intentional nod.... but for me it's pretty damn cool.
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In terms of the DT catalogue, this song is in the top 5. I love every second of it and Petrucci shows his God hands beautifully on this one.
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Can someone please tell me what time sig the first verse is in...I'm too stoned to count out that isht right now.
Also - great tune. Bit of a Rush meets Megadave vibe. A top 2 or 3 song for me, and probs #1 vocally.
I was waiting for someone to mention about the Megadeth vibe. Great song, one of my favorites!
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"Can you see the stranger..." is my first DT12 goosebumps moment. Happened just now. Another highlight is the intro melody and Jordan's solo, classic prog/Wakeman vibe. :hefdaddy
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JLBs vocal delivery makes this song. The way he sings " for a soul depraved". The intro is amazing, I see a scene that's veiled by rain and when the band kicks in, we're seeing behind the veil of the rain to reveal a horrific scene. Like a detective not knowing what lies beyond the door pf the house they're investigating.
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After watching the Elizabeth Smart interview on Saturday night the lyrics to this song which were already good IMO became even more magnified and powerful.
Didn't JP say in an interview that theses lyrics were based off of her kidnapping and the kidnapping of the three girls held hostage for years in Cleveland? I thought I remember that revelation from one of the countless interviews.
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Really like the tune. JP's lead is the best on the record. Only thing that absolutely makes me cringe every time I hear it is the prechorus/chorus transition. It is incredibly clunky and has zero flow whatsoever.
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I think this song is my favorite overall from this album. I like the chorus, the amazing intro (best thing JR has done in a very long time), the way James sings especially on the first verse, the JP solo, Mangini's drumming...
It's a very refined song, with great flow and very enjoyable to listen to. My most listened track from the album so far.
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I still can't get past that "Creeping Death" guitar intro part though.
I don't see any similarity to Creeping Death there :huh:
Really? I thought it was blatantly obvious that there were similarities.
Is it just me or is there no one else who hears the similarities?
Definitely, I'd say it's pretty obvious!
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After watching the Elizabeth Smart interview on Saturday night the lyrics to this song which were already good IMO became even more magnified and powerful.
Didn't JP say in an interview that theses lyrics were based off of her kidnapping and the kidnapping of the three girls held hostage for years in Cleveland? I thought I remember that revelation from one of the countless interviews.
I came back to this thread for some clarity on this. I read that it was about the Cleveland kidnapper - and there's clearly some relevance there - but, like you, watching the Elizabeth Smart interview is fit that completely as she was out in public wearing a veil.
Did John say it was about the Cleveland kidnapping specifically or kidnapping in general with that being one ? Because this fits the Smart case perfectly.
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After watching the Elizabeth Smart interview on Saturday night the lyrics to this song which were already good IMO became even more magnified and powerful.
Didn't JP say in an interview that theses lyrics were based off of her kidnapping and the kidnapping of the three girls held hostage for years in Cleveland? I thought I remember that revelation from one of the countless interviews.
I came back to this thread for some clarity on this. I read that it was about the Cleveland kidnapper - and there's clearly some relevance there - but, like you, watching the Elizabeth Smart interview is fit that completely as she was out in public wearing a veil.
Did John say it was about the Cleveland kidnapping specifically or kidnapping in general with that being one ? Because this fits the Smart case perfectly.
You're absolutely right in that it definitely fits the Elizabeth Smart story much closer. I had a post earlier in this thread with a couple of links supporting your claim. However, I've gathered some info to support both cases. Check it out:
Case For BtV Being About Cleveland Case:
- I've heard a few people say that JP specifically said it was about the Cleveland kidnapping case.
- The Cleveland case got lots of attention in 2013, as Amanda Berry (one of the girls taken captive) escaped I believe in May 2013. I think this is around the time that DT was writing for the album, if I'm not mistaken. The Elizabeth Smart case broke in 2002, and her kidnapper was sentenced to life in 2011. So 2011 was pretty much the last main event in the timeline of this case, which IMO seems a bit late for a song about it.
- When following the case, I remember reading somewhere that Amanda Berry and the other 2 girls in the Cleveland kidnapping case wore veils sometimes when Ariel Castro let them outside (on only a few occasions)
Case For BtV Being About Elizabeth Smart:
- In an earlier post in this thread, I had posted some links to highly support BtV being about Elizabeth Smart:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328204/Elizabeth-Smart-kidnapper-refused-let-detective-veil.html
and also:
https://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2010/11/elizabeth-smart-the-veil-and-religion.html
- Elizabeth Smart's veil in particular garnered a lot of media attention and articles, so I really think this case may account for the bulk of the central theme of the song.
I think there are really strong clues supporting both cases. What I've personally concluded is that the song may be about kidnapping in general.
I think it is possible that the Cleveland case brought the subject of kidnapping back into the public eye, and this may have gotten DT interested in the topic for a song. So they may have developed a new-found interest in the Elizabeth Smart case after hearing about the Cleveland case, and just went from there.
Hope this helped to spark some thought!
What do you guys think?
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Nice post Adamack, I actually agree with all you've said. Thanks for taking the time to gather all these useful informations.
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Thanks to adamack for the facts!
FTFY :tup
-Marc.
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I think there are really strong clues supporting both cases. What I've personally concluded is that the song may be about kidnapping in general.
I think it is possible that the Cleveland case brought the subject of kidnapping back into the public eye, and this may have gotten DT interested in the topic for a song. So they may have developed a new-found interest in the Elizabeth Smart case after hearing about the Cleveland case, and just went from there.
I'm guessing, but I would think you probably aren't far off. I think it is likely that JP heard about one case or the other (or both), and was inspired by the events of the case(s), rather than writing the song specifically about the case(s), if that makes sense. Again, I don't have any inside information, but that explanation makes sense to me.
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Really solid track. It's been my favorite to listen to this week. The intro has my fist pumping in the air. Seems like a good opener for a second set or maybe an encore.
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Nice post Adamack, I actually agree with all you've said. Thanks for taking the time to gather all these useful informations.
Thanks to adamack for the facts!
FTFY :tup
Yeah, appreciate that Adamack. I'd bet it's along the lines of what Bosk1 said.....inspired by....but nonetheless it's a powerful song musically backed by powerful lyrics. I don't see this song being supplanted as my favorite any time soon. It strikes such a chord with me for some reason.
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No prob guys, and yeah I too believe that, as bosk said, it was inspired by the cases rather than about them literally.
It'd be cool to see JP talk on this subject and reveal exactly what the case was for writing the lyrics. One of my top 3 favs on the album, so I'd be very interested to know.
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Can someone please tell me what time sig the first verse is in...I'm too stoned to count out that isht right now.
Also - great tune. Bit of a Rush meets Megadave vibe. A top 2 or 3 song for me, and probs #1 vocally.
I was waiting for someone to mention about the Megadeth vibe. Great song, one of my favorites!
I'm gonna correct myself here. It's not Megadeth, that riff has Creeping Death written all over it.
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Took me a while to figure out what you guys were talking about with the Creeping Death part, but now I can clearly hear it.
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Just to be sure, are you guys talking about the riff in Creeping Death which begins when the song starts, and ends at around 19 seconds in, sounding like the BtV intro riff from around 1:22 til 1:48?
I can see a similarity, and the songs being in the same key adds to the similarity.
Or is it another part in each song that I missed?
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Well, BTV intro is in triplets but it is in the same key. Funny I never noticed until someone mentioned it though.
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I really like the riff and JR's string melody just before the main verse riff enters. Easily my favorite part, apart from the guitar solo.
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Just to be sure, are you guys talking about the riff in Creeping Death which begins when the song starts, and ends at around 19 seconds in, sounding like the BtV intro riff from around 1:22 til 1:48?
I can see a similarity, and the songs being in the same key adds to the similarity.
Or is it another part in each song that I missed?
Yeah I'm talking about the beginning. Almost the same chord progression but obviously different rhythm.
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This song is growing on me more and more. I still can't get past that "Creeping Death" guitar intro part though. Knowing what the lyrics are about makes the song more powerful in my opinion. I love how the mood of the chorus changes when it's coming from the voice of the victim as opposed to the cruel sounding verse describing the kidnapper.
what about 5:43 - 6:18 ...sounds like the main riff of Judas Priests' Victim Of Changes... or is it just me... \m/ cool song though
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I like the song, chorus and all, but I'm a bit puzzled by the intro. The French horns and atmospheric stuff - it's nice, but ... why?
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I actually really enjoy the intro. The verses with James singing in Dave Mustaine style are pretty cool and grew on me quite a bit, and the pre-chorus is very catchy. I still find the chorus underwhelming and slightly generic, and the song itself does end rather conventionally as well.
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Behind the Veil has become my favorite on DT12
Love the intro and how it builds up to the Metallica/Megadeth Riff
The Mustaine style of singing in the first verse is pretty badass too.
I was underwhelmed by the chorus when I first heard the track but it's grown on me and is very hook driven
The bridge is great and has JPs best solo on the album IMO
Nice little twist in the last chorus and the main riff at the end
Overall it's a perfect example of a concise DT song without all the extra fat. I feel if this was on BCSL it would have another keyboard/guitar solo section following the first one and it would have been too much.
A great workout track too as well :metal
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Regarding the Elizabeth Smart story:
I just finished her book and it's as if JP read it also, but I don't think it was released when he wrote the song.
In the book, as she's being lead around town by her captor, she literally says to herself,(paraphrasing) "Someone please look in my eyes. I wish you could see behind my veil. You would recognize that I'm Elizabeth Smart". She also mentions, "hiding in plain sight".
Great book, I highly recommend it.
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So JP has started stealing lyrics from books again...
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The "hiding in plain sight" line always reminds me of Breaking Bad since Gus once said to Walt, "I hide in plain sight, same as you."
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So JP has started stealing lyrics from books again...
I didn't mean it like that. I'm just mentioning because some are speculating whether or not the song was in part about her.
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So JP has started stealing lyrics from books again...
I didn't mean it like that. I'm just mentioning because some are speculating whether or not the song was in part about her.
Nah, I was just being sarcastic, hence the color.
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I like the song, chorus and all, but I'm a bit puzzled by the intro. The French horns and atmospheric stuff - it's nice, but ... why?
Because it's cool.
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I like the song, chorus and all, but I'm a bit puzzled by the intro. The French horns and atmospheric stuff - it's nice, but ... why?
Because it's cool.
Why not? Nice gentle intro gives the riff more punch.
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I like the song, chorus and all, but I'm a bit puzzled by the intro. The French horns and atmospheric stuff - it's nice, but ... why?
Because it's cool.
Why not? Nice gentle intro gives the riff more punch.
Indeed. Contrast - one of the best tools in music.
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See the BITS intro
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Indeed. Contrast - one of the best tools in music.
Agreed, contrasts are good. However, in a song like Scarred, you have a "calm" intro which grows and evolves into the song we all know, and the intro doesn't feel out of place at all. Still, the 4 minute mark is something completely different than the intro, so you definitely get the contrast. Behind the Veil is more like "atmospheric intro" and then BANG - something completely different. And I don't really "get" that. Hence the "why..?".
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Don't know what else to tell you. They thought it would be a good intro idea, and it seems to work for most people.
Jarring transitions are a longtime DT hallmark.
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Behind the Veil is more like "atmospheric intro" and then BANG - something completely different. And I don't really "get" that. Hence the "why..?".
Well, it's not completely different. Jordan is still playing the melody he plays in the intro during the heavy riff, and the heavy riff uses the chords played by Jordan in the intro. I think it works really well together.
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I wasn't sure the point of the intro at first, but it's an amazing intro and accentuates the impact of when the song finally kicks in at 1:22. It is epic IMO.
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I never get why people think music has to be one certain way. "It has to build up! It has to be a smooth transition, it has to have more balls" Blah, blah, blah.
It's whatever the musicians want. It's their creation. Music and art should have no boundaries.
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Behind the Veil is more like "atmospheric intro" and then BANG - something completely different. And I don't really "get" that. Hence the "why..?".
Well, it's not completely different. Jordan is still playing the melody he plays in the intro during the heavy riff, and the heavy riff uses the chords played by Jordan in the intro. I think it works really well together.
This. If the intro had nothing to do with any part of the song the wtf would be valid. But it has.
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The intro is amazing, as is the rest of the song. They blend just fine.
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The intro is amazing, as is the rest of the song. They blend just fine.
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I still can't get past that "Creeping Death" guitar intro part though.
I don't see any similarity to Creeping Death there :huh:
Really? I thought it was blatantly obvious that there were similarities.
Is it just me or is there no one else who hears the similarities?
Definitely, I'd say it's pretty obvious!
It's a thrashy metal riff in E minor, chances are it will sound like Metallica/Megadeth. :lol
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I can hear why someone would reference Creeping Death, but it's in no way a rip or anything. Just one of those things that's in the same vein.
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And I bet when they came up with that riff, someone said "hey, that kinda sounds like Creeping Death...cool..." etc. We can't accuse musicians of ripping off other musicians without being in the room when they create it.
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I didn't think Creeping Death with this one - I did with Constant Motion though.
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I have never once thought of Creeping Death when listening to this song, and after listening to it again, I still have no idea what some of you are talking about.
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After the calm intro, the song kicks in with an aggressive riff that lets the last chord ring for a full measure (or thereabouts), which is vaguely similar to the opening intro riff in Creeping Death. That being said:
I have never once thought of Creeping Death when listening to this song
After it was mentioned, I hear the really basic similarily. But it is such a stretch that I never would have thought of Creeping Death if it hadn't been mentioned, and even after hearing it, they aren't similar enough to where I would connect the two moving forward.
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After the calm intro, the song kicks in with an aggressive riff that lets the last chord ring for a full measure (or thereabouts), which is vaguely similar to the opening intro riff in Creeping Death. That being said:
I have never once thought of Creeping Death when listening to this song
After it was mentioned, I hear the really basic similarily. But it is such a stretch that I never would have thought of Creeping Death if it hadn't been mentioned, and even after hearing it, they aren't similar enough to where I would connect the two moving forward.
Yeah, this is pretty much what I thought too.
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Nobody's done anything creative with the stems yet?
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There are stems?!
Still! Great song. Ben_Jamin loves the way JLB sings "hour."
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There are stems?!
I believe they came in the super duper deluxe boxset that had the DT USB stick and the Take This For The Pain documentary, so probably not a lot of people have them. The stems were only for that song though, not the whole album as they did for BCASL.
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Aw, man. That's it, I'm buying the big-bastard-box next time.
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:lol
I bought the BCASL big-bastard-box just for the stems. So much fun to be had in hearing all of the isolated parts, and messing around with them. I collect a lot of stems from various artists just to dissect what makes them tick.
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This song needs to be played live ASAP! >:(
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The most underrated track on DT12!
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:lol
I bought the BCASL big-bastard-box just for the stems. So much fun to be had in hearing all of the isolated parts, and messing around with them. I collect a lot of stems from various artists just to dissect what makes them tick.
I was in fifth grade when that came out so obviously I couldn't afford the bigass box. When I came across the stems I realized that it would probably be much more fun to play around with them before they went through so much compression.
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:lol
I bought the BCASL big-bastard-box just for the stems. So much fun to be had in hearing all of the isolated parts, and messing around with them. I collect a lot of stems from various artists just to dissect what makes them tick.
I was in fifth grade when that came out so obviously I couldn't afford the bigass box. When I came across the stems I realized that it would probably be much more fun to play around with them before they went through so much compression.
If it weren't for the few missing samples and leads, I would have exported mixdowns of the stems to replace the album versions. If I felt like double dipping, I'd buy the HDTracks versions to solve that issue though.
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:lol
I bought the BCASL big-bastard-box just for the stems. So much fun to be had in hearing all of the isolated parts, and messing around with them. I collect a lot of stems from various artists just to dissect what makes them tick.
I was in fifth grade when that came out so obviously I couldn't afford the bigass box. When I came across the stems I realized that it would probably be much more fun to play around with them before they went through so much compression.
If it weren't for the few missing samples and leads, I would have exported mixdowns of the stems to replace the album versions. If I felt like double dipping, I'd buy the HDTracks versions to solve that issue though.
The lead guitar in the chorus is waaaay to buried in the album version. Took me a while to noticed, and it's a shame because I really love it.
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This song needs to be played live ASAP! >:(
It hasn't? Wow.
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This song needs to be played live ASAP! >:(
It hasn't? Wow.
To be fair the chorus has like 4 guitars going.
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I suspect that once they start hitting markets later this year that already saw the current set list, the songs from the new album (which I won't list, so as not to spoil it for anyone still waiting to see them) that haven't been played yet will then be played.
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I have the same hunch. For that reason, I'm hoping they do a warm up show or two for t
That's as far as I got with that post. Then I checked, found they are doing a warm up show for Sonisphere, and bought tickets immediately. Bring it on..!
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I have the same hunch. For that reason, I'm hoping they do a warm up show or two for t
That's as far as I got with that post. Then I checked, found they are doing a warm up show for Sonisphere, and bought tickets immediately. Bring it on..!
I thought you accidently your post, and then realized that the bottom portion was not your signature. :lol
Where does it say that they are doing a warmup show? Did you just mean the show the day before Sonisphere?
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:lol
I bought the BCASL big-bastard-box just for the stems. So much fun to be had in hearing all of the isolated parts, and messing around with them. I collect a lot of stems from various artists just to dissect what makes them tick.
I was in fifth grade when that came out so obviously I couldn't afford the bigass box. When I came across the stems I realized that it would probably be much more fun to play around with them before they went through so much compression.
If it weren't for the few missing samples and leads, I would have exported mixdowns of the stems to replace the album versions. If I felt like double dipping, I'd buy the HDTracks versions to solve that issue though.
If you're willing to put forth the effort, you could invert the stems in Audacity and play them against the album version to yield a misc stem.
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:lol
I bought the BCASL big-bastard-box just for the stems. So much fun to be had in hearing all of the isolated parts, and messing around with them. I collect a lot of stems from various artists just to dissect what makes them tick.
I was in fifth grade when that came out so obviously I couldn't afford the bigass box. When I came across the stems I realized that it would probably be much more fun to play around with them before they went through so much compression.
If it weren't for the few missing samples and leads, I would have exported mixdowns of the stems to replace the album versions. If I felt like double dipping, I'd buy the HDTracks versions to solve that issue though.
If you're willing to put forth the effort, you could invert the stems in Audacity and play them against the album version to yield a misc stem.
I think the mastering/compression on the album version would render that method fairly ineffective, but it's a nice idea.
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This song needs to be played live ASAP! >:(
It hasn't? Wow.
To be fair the chorus has like 4 guitars going.
Maybe he could invite some guitar player buds out to play the other tracks :biggrin:
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One of the better songs on the album.
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I have the same hunch. For that reason, I'm hoping they do a warm up show or two for t
That's as far as I got with that post. Then I checked, found they are doing a warm up show for Sonisphere, and bought tickets immediately. Bring it on..!
I thought you accidently your post, and then realized that the bottom portion was not your signature. :lol
Where does it say that they are doing a warmup show? Did you just mean the show the day before Sonisphere?
Yeah, they often sprinkle a few warmup gigs between their festival appearances. This year, no exception!
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John Petrucci lied to us.
This song is actually about Sirius Black.
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Gotta love how he sings 'hour'
:>
BTV is good enough, but it's not really special for me somehow.. What I mostly like about the song are these 10 seconds: 5:40 - 5:50 ::)
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Gotta love how he sings 'hour'
:>
BTV is good enough, but it's not really special for me somehow.. What I mostly like about the song are these 10 seconds: 5:40 - 5:50 ::)
Gotta love headbanging to that section.
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I think this is in the top three of the album. Might be the best.
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This song still does nothing for me. :-[
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Gotta love how he sings 'hour'
:>
BTV is good enough, but it's not really special for me somehow.. What I mostly like about the song are these 10 seconds: 5:40 - 5:50 ::)
Gotta love headbanging to that section.
I had to go and listen and this is exactly the section I enjoy most about this song. I'd like to see JP breakout in a jam following this part. :metal
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BTV is fantastic. There honestly isn't any section of it that falls flat and it's definitely a modern DT classic if I ever heard one. Gotta be the best song on DT12 (aside from IT).
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Behind The Veil is my favorite DT12 song.
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I don't know if I'd call it my favorite, but it was at one time. I love everything about this song. The intro, Mangini's drum part (especially from 3:28 to 3:50), the solo, vocals, riffs, everything. It's just wonderful. According to LastFM it's tied with ES and TGD for 5th most listened DT track. That's not completely accurate because I listened to DT for quite a while before getting the scrobbler app, but still.
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Middle of the pack in DT12 for me, but there's really nothing bad about it. Maybe except how the first verse sounds exactly like TROAE. Besides that, great song. It has the best guitar solo on the album, in my opinion.
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Love this track, its probably a top 2 song off of DT12 (IT being number 1). :metal
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Gotta love how he sings 'hour'
:>
BTV is good enough, but it's not really special for me somehow.. What I mostly like about the song are these 10 seconds: 5:40 - 5:50 ::)
Yeah. For me, I would say it starts at 5:32. Leading up to that, it is sort of a "typical" JP guitar solo. It is tasteful, well-executed, and a lot of cool stuff going on, but nothing that really stands out to me above any of his other solos. Then that chord change underneath the solo hits at 5:32, and the entire tone of the solo changes and it quickly ramps up into high gear and turns into something truly special. I LOVE it!
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I LIKE it!
FTFY
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:lol That'll work.
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Surprised no one has gotten creative with the stems yet. There were plenty of remixes of BC&SL songs.
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I only saw the guitar, lead, and drums stems on Youtube.
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I think that the volume of remixes is entirely dependent on p2p availability.
Of course I wouldn't know how much illegal circulation there is.
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The whole song is great, both structurally and melodically, but the "can you see the stranger..." and the end of the guitar solo stand out as pivotal moments.
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I watched 'Prometheus' again last night and it just confirmed for me what I had thought the first time I heard 'Behind the Veil'.......the intro. soundtrack on the movie as the camera is gliding through the many landscapes of a distant Earth......sounds eerily familiar to the first minute of 'BTV'
Opening soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgfDnflqMGA
yeah...neah??
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I watched 'Prometheus' again last night and it just confirmed for me what I had thought the first time I heard 'Behind the Veil'.......the intro. soundtrack on the movie as the camera is gliding through the many landscapes of a distant Earth......sounds eerily familiar to the first minute of 'BTV'
Opening soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgfDnflqMGA
yeah...neah??
"Yay or nay?" I say thee, NAY!
Seriously though, not really, but I can see why someone *might* think that.
-Marc.
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The intro is amazing, as is the rest of the song. They blend just fine.
This. I believe it's the best song on the album.
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I watched 'Prometheus' again last night and it just confirmed for me what I had thought the first time I heard 'Behind the Veil'.......the intro. soundtrack on the movie as the camera is gliding through the many landscapes of a distant Earth......sounds eerily familiar to the first minute of 'BTV'
Opening soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgfDnflqMGA
yeah...neah??
Not really.
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Surprised no one has gotten creative with the stems yet. There were plenty of remixes of BC&SL songs.
Probably cause they're not so easily available. Seriously, how do you even get the stems for DT12 unless you use Jammit? BC&SL had the stripped down instrumentals (vocaless of course, but also missing the lead instrumentals). It also came with all the stems for each instrument so a lot more people ended up having access to them and messed with them. eg. BC&SL stems are the only ones I have. ADTOE had the instrumentals aswell which were proper instrumentals with the lead instrumentals present as opposed to the BC&SL 'backing tracks'. But I'm not so sure if we got the stems for ADTOE in a s similar way because I didn't get the special edition of that one.
Going off on a tangent here but I was kidna disappointed we didn't get instrumental versions this time, I think it's a nice optional extra. Nothing against the vocals, but as a fairly obsessive listener, I like to hear all the details so I find it fascinating to hear all the subtle nuances on the instruments that otherwise loose your attention and end up blending into the background due to an overlying melody.
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BC&SL had the stripped down instrumentals (vocaless of course, but also missing the lead instrumentals). It also came with all the stems for each instrument so a lot more people ended up having access to them and messed with them.
I thought there were vocal stems for that album, also. That's how people were able to do so many remixes of various songs.
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Surprised no one has gotten creative with the stems yet. There were plenty of remixes of BC&SL songs.
Probably cause they're not so easily available. Seriously, how do you even get the stems for DT12 unless you use Jammit? BC&SL had the stripped down instrumentals (vocaless of course, but also missing the lead instrumentals). It also came with all the stems for each instrument so a lot more people ended up having access to them and messed with them. eg. BC&SL stems are the only ones I have. ADTOE had the instrumentals aswell which were proper instrumentals with the lead instrumentals present as opposed to the BC&SL 'backing tracks'. But I'm not so sure if we got the stems for ADTOE in a s similar way because I didn't get the special edition of that one.
Going off on a tangent here but I was kidna disappointed we didn't get instrumental versions this time, I think it's a nice optional extra. Nothing against the vocals, but as a fairly obsessive listener, I like to hear all the details so I find it fascinating to hear all the subtle nuances on the instruments that otherwise loose your attention and end up blending into the background due to an overlying melody.
Behind the Veil stems are available in the superduper deluxe edition as a bonus. On the Backs of Angels stems were available on the net after the release of ADTOE for the album owners.
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Hi, I have my version of 'Behind the Veil', however Soundcloud refuses to upload it because of copyright infringement, I guess other file hosting websites will do the same. Personally, I think it's fair use because I don't have any profit out of it.
What is the correct way to post the file without offending anyone?
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Love this song!!! The part where James sings "when the lightning strikes" gives me chills, and it has a different meaning for me. Our house got struck by lightning just two days before I bought DT12, it was like iron maidens Ed Force one dropped a bomb on the rooftop! It freaked us the hell out and destroyed all our electronics, and literally blew plaster off our walls. We were without power for four days. I listened to the new DT album on a small battery powered ghetto blaster for a while.
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Hi, I have my version of 'Behind the Veil', however Soundcloud refuses to upload it because of copyright infringement, I guess other file hosting websites will do the same. Personally, I think it's fair use because I don't have any profit out of it.
What is the correct way to post the file without offending anyone?
Roadrunner Records has uploaded it to YouTube anyway.
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Going off on a tangent here but I was kidna disappointed we didn't get instrumental versions this time, I think it's a nice optional extra. Nothing against the vocals, but as a fairly obsessive listener, I like to hear all the details so I find it fascinating to hear all the subtle nuances on the instruments that otherwise loose your attention and end up blending into the background due to an overlying melody.
Pretty late to make this comment, but yeah, I'm sad we didn't get the instrumental versions as well. I would have loved to try to sing Behind the Veil or go for broke and try Illumination Theory or The Bigger Picture. Such a shame.
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Hi, I have my version of 'Behind the Veil', however Soundcloud refuses to upload it because of copyright infringement, I guess other file hosting websites will do the same. Personally, I think it's fair use because I don't have any profit out of it.
What is the correct way to post the file without offending anyone?
Roadrunner Records has uploaded it to YouTube anyway.
Ok, I'll just leave this right here:
https://youtu.be/jzsHgBz1ZOk
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:lol