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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Knguro on September 20, 2013, 04:09:16 PM
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Sorry to bother with this, but it just made me cry, I'm serious, i cant tell what happened, i was just listening to it for the first time, and suddenly, tears, melody, instrumentation, sections, lyrics, mix, everything, JL, JP, JMX, MM, JR thanks for such a glorious moment in my life.
Did something similar happen to you guys?
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Hasn't happened with this one, but I do know what you're talking about. I get that every time I get to the ATC reprise in SDOIT.
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I'm not crying or anything, but I'm listening to IT right now and it seems to come together more with every listen. What a fantastic song.
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It didn't move me to tears, but I definitely have to sit back and just . . . be.
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The song made me happy. Illumination Theory stands in stark contrast to the mediocre, uninspiring trash masquerading as music that popular culture tries to sell us. It makes me happy that there still some musicians dedicated to their craft. Their dedication inspires me to try to do a good job at my small roles in life.
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Yeah, it got (gets) me too. It's the ending that does it for me, when MM hits the gong.
I mean, what? No way! I'm a 100% macho guy and would never cry at anything at all.
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Yeah, it got (gets) me too. It's the ending that does it for me, when MM hits the gong.
I mean, what? No way! I'm a 100% macho guy and would never cry at anything at all.
Macho Macho Men + Dream Theater = LALP Crying Girl :angel:
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Yeah, it got (gets) me too. It's the ending that does it for me, when MM hits the gong.
I mean, what? No way! I'm a 100% macho guy and would never cry at anything at all.
Believe me I have needles and car oil for breakfast, but this shit made me cry.
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It didn't quite bring me to tears but I was in awe and very happy with the experience.
I do get an interesting feeling when the Easter Egg completes though. I'm calm, at peace, a little sad, and almost impulsively eager to start the whole experience over again. I like that. It's like musical crack or something...
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There was this magical day, I was on a 13 hour train ride home, all alone, watching Live Scenes on my laptop. I was incredibly immersed the whole way and then came Finally Free. When Julian and Victoria were getting shot, I had immense chills...then came the "One last time" section...I just lost it and burst into tears, which JP's beautiful solo even took up a notch. It was an absolute pivotal moment, one of the greatest feelings music has ever given me. Everything just clicked perfectly. Since then, I can never get through that section without getting at least little teary-eyed. It's the only song which has that effect on me and it took quite a few listens to get there. Who knows what IT has yet to offer.
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I think the only song I've ever cried listening to is Drive Home and The Raven That Refused To Sing by Steven Wilson...
Music brings out a ton of emotion in me but usually not enough to cause tears. However, IT is painfully beautiful, I agree. I almost teared up when listening to Surrender, Trust & Passion. What a beautiful piece.
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There was this magical day, I was on a 13 hour train ride home, all alone, watching Live Scenes on my laptop. I was incredibly immersed the whole way and then came Finally Free. When Julian and Victoria were getting shot, I had immense chills...then came the "One last time" section...I just lost it and burst into tears, which JP's beautiful solo even took up a notch. It was an absolute pivotal moment, one of the greatest feelings music has ever given me. Everything just clicked perfectly. Since then, I can never get through that section without getting at least little teary-eyed. It's the only song which has that effect on me and it took quite a few listens to get there. Who knows what IT has yet to offer.
That is one of the best DT moments.
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I shed a few tears during the first listen of DT12. Can't recall which song or part it was though. :facepalm:
However, nothing will ever compare to the situation I was in while listening to "Collapse The Light Into Earth" by Porcupine Tree.
I went out to visit my ex gf for the first time. I intended to stay 3 days, but we were having such a great time that I stayed a month. The day before I had to head back home I learned that we couldn't have a future unless I somehow became Pentecostal and gave my life to God.
She had so much faith that I could become a believer. I told her that I could promise her anything except for learning to believe.
We were driving down a country road past huge cornfields at around midnight the day before I had to go, and Collapse The Light Into Earth came on. We just drove and listened, and didn't say anything. We knew it was over. We were so in love, but religion kept us apart. To this day, it is extremely difficult to listen to that song.
Another one that kills me is "Heart Attack In a Layby" by PT as well.
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It didn't move me to tears, but I definitely have to sit back and just . . . be.
Exactly what happens to me.
I shed a few tears during the first listen of DT12. Can't recall which song or part it was though. :facepalm:
However, nothing will ever compare to the situation I was in while listening to "Collapse The Light Into Earth" by Porcupine Tree.
I went out to visit my ex gf for the first time. I intended to stay 3 days, but we were having such a great time that I stayed a month. The day before I had to head back home I learned that we couldn't have a future unless I somehow became Pentecostal and gave my life to God.
She had so much faith that I could become a believer. I told her that I could promise her anything except for learning to believe.
We were driving down a country road past huge cornfields at around midnight the day before I had to go, and Collapse The Light Into Earth came on. We just drove and listened, and didn't say anything. We knew it was over. We were so in love, but religion kept us apart. To this day, it is extremely difficult to listen to that song.
Another one that kills me is "Heart Attack In a Layby" by PT as well.
What a story man... I got goosebumps from reading it.
I have cried to a ton of songs, to be honest. The one that gets me the easiest is Deform to Form a Star by Steven Wilson.
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For me it's Another World (ACOS) and almost always BTS and FFH.
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A song which has made me teary is Drag Ropes by Storm Corrosion. Theres a really sad Piano and String part in it. I think this thread should basically be a steven wilson appreciation thread lol
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Sorry to bother with this, but it just made me cry, I'm serious, i cant tell what happened, i was just listening to it for the first time, and suddenly, tears, melody, instrumentation, sections, lyrics, mix, everything, JL, JP, JMX, MM, JR thanks for such a glorious moment in my life.
Did something similar happen to you guys?
YES!!! I'm so glad that you created this thread. This has actually happened to me twice now upon listening to it. It always happens at the part where James is singing:
To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain
When you surrender to the light
You can face the darkest days
I don't know if it's the lyrics, the instrumentation, or a combination of both, but I just start sobbing uncontrollably.
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Sorry to bother with this, but it just made me cry, I'm serious, i cant tell what happened, i was just listening to it for the first time, and suddenly, tears, melody, instrumentation, sections, lyrics, mix, everything, JL, JP, JMX, MM, JR thanks for such a glorious moment in my life.
Did something similar happen to you guys?
YES!!! I'm so glad that you created this thread. This has actually happened to me twice now upon listening to it. It always happens at the part where James is singing:
To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain
When you surrender to the light
You can face the darkest days
I don't know if it's the lyrics, the instrumentation, or a combination of both, but I just start sobbing uncontrollably.
This. 100% agree.
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I have cried to a ton of songs, to be honest. The one that gets me the easiest is Deform to Form a Star by Steven Wilson.
Ya know what, for all the hours I've spent listening to Steven Wilson creations, I've never heard Deform To Form a Star. I just put it on and am listening to it right now. It sounds wonderful. It just broke into the chorus section...beautiful.
I love SW's works because each lyric is somewhat of a mystery, and you really have to think into it to decipher precisely what his intentions were for the meaning.
What a story man... I got goosebumps from reading it.
And yeah man, it was the most devastating feeling of my life.
But this fits in perfectly with the topic of this thread. The whole "To really feel the joy in life, you must suffer through the pain" lyric applies precisely with that situation I faced. I honestly now can find much more joy in little things everyday because of the culmination of devastating times in my life.
As cliche as that sounds, I've found it to be so true.
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I have cried to a ton of songs, to be honest. The one that gets me the easiest is Deform to Form a Star by Steven Wilson.
Ya know what, for all the hours I've spent listening to Steven Wilson creations, I've never heard Deform To Form a Star. I just put it on and am listening to it right now. It sounds wonderful. It just broke into the chorus section...beautiful.
I love SW's works because each lyric is somewhat of a mystery, and you really have to think into it to decipher precisely what his intentions were for the meaning.
What a story man... I got goosebumps from reading it.
And yeah man, it was the most devastating feeling of my life.
But this fits in perfectly with the topic of this thread. The whole "To really feel the joy in life, you must suffer through the pain" lyric applies precisely with that situation I faced. I honestly now can find much more joy in little things everyday because of the culmination of devastating times in my life.
As cliche as that sounds, I've found it to be so true.
Im currently going through the worst heartache i can imagine, and Illumination Theory is so helpful to me. Its so therapeutic, and I can relate to all the lyrics. "The bridges we built to connect, the distance that makes us forget. Hate dividing us - love reminding us of our shared humanity" especially. like, i fucking feel the anger in those words and relate so well. Surrender Trust and Passion is still actually too hard too listen to right now, and truth be told I end up cutting the song short right there. I get a sick feeling in my stomach when the instrumental section ends and trasintions into the final part. I know that if i continue listening any further i'll end up going on a feels trip that i really dont want to go on right now. But the few times i did listen to that part, it was a healing experience, a painful healing experience, if that makes sense. In fact, this whole album is really a very therapeutic experience for me and every song seems to give me a little bit more encouragement every day to get through the struggle.
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I have cried to a ton of songs, to be honest. The one that gets me the easiest is Deform to Form a Star by Steven Wilson.
Ya know what, for all the hours I've spent listening to Steven Wilson creations, I've never heard Deform To Form a Star. I just put it on and am listening to it right now. It sounds wonderful. It just broke into the chorus section...beautiful.
I love SW's works because each lyric is somewhat of a mystery, and you really have to think into it to decipher precisely what his intentions were for the meaning.
It's my favorite song of all time. I relate to it very deeply. As far as I remember, he explained the song talks about how beauty is not found in perfection but in flaws.
What a story man... I got goosebumps from reading it.
And yeah man, it was the most devastating feeling of my life.
But this fits in perfectly with the topic of this thread. The whole "To really feel the joy in life, you must suffer through the pain" lyric applies precisely with that situation I faced. I honestly now can find much more joy in little things everyday because of the culmination of devastating times in my life.
As cliche as that sounds, I've found it to be so true.
I'm not quite sure if it is a cliché. Yes, it might sound a little bit cheesy when heard or said, but if you think properly of it is pretty much the best way to live by, and I say this because I have gone through really hard situations and they have led me to that, and it is possibly the only way to enjoy life fully and to deal properly with harsh moments.
Im currently going through the worst heartache i can imagine, and Illumination Theory is so helpful to me. Its so therapeutic, and I can relate to all the lyrics. "The bridges we built to connect, the distance that makes us forget. Hate dividing us - love reminding us of our shared humanity" especially. like, i fucking feel the anger in those words and relate so well. Surrender Trust and Passion is still actually too hard too listen to right now, and truth be told I end up cutting the song short right there. I get a sick feeling in my stomach when the instrumental section ends and trasintions into the final part. I know that if i continue listening any further i'll end up going on a feels trip that i really dont want to go on right now. But the few times i did listen to that part, it was a healing experience, a painful healing experience, if that makes sense. In fact, this whole album is really a very therapeutic experience for me and every song seems to give me a little bit more encouragement every day to get through the struggle.
That's pretty much what the song talks about, I think. How dealing with hardships finally gets you to a point where you grow stronger, that is "illumination", to sum it up in DT's words. It's an incredible song, and I found the verses you mentioned to sink in better than any others through the whole song. There's a very deep meaning to it, and now that I try to bond with it better I get that sick feeling in the stomach as well. I totally get what you're saying here.
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No music has ever made me cry, but the orchestral section of Illumination Theory is as close as any music has ever come. Absolutely beautiful.
A lot of the rest of the song is excellent too, but no danger of waterworks.
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I'd give the song an overall 'C'. Generally it's ok, but there are parts where it just sounds like random noise and makes me cringe. When I buy the album I'll edit those parts out and it'll probably be more palatable to me.
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Music that really gets to me gives me goosebumps on my arms and whatnot, but doesn't make me cry. Illumination Theory definitely has several moments where the goosebumps are fighting to get to the surface of my arms. :lol
The more I listen to the song, the more fantastic I think it is, although I will say that I wish the first three minutes or so were stronger. They aren't bad or anything, but they are just kind of there. But once those crazy drum fills kick in and the guitar riffage speeds about around the 3 1/2 minute mark, it is mostly awesomeness from that point forward.
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No music has ever made me cry, but the orchestral section of Illumination Theory is as close as any music has ever come. Absolutely beautiful.
A lot of the rest of the song is excellent too, but no danger of waterworks.
Damn you. Thats where all started for me on the song.
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Sorry to bother with this, but it just made me cry, I'm serious, i cant tell what happened, i was just listening to it for the first time, and suddenly, tears, melody, instrumentation, sections, lyrics, mix, everything, JL, JP, JMX, MM, JR thanks for such a glorious moment in my life.
Did something similar happen to you guys?
YES!!! I'm so glad that you created this thread. This has actually happened to me twice now upon listening to it. It always happens at the part where James is singing:
To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain
When you surrender to the light
You can face the darkest days
I don't know if it's the lyrics, the instrumentation, or a combination of both, but I just start sobbing uncontrollably.
This. 100% agree.
You are welcome guys!
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The ending of Octavarium made my eyes water a little the first time I heard it (and maybe on some occasions after) with how beautiful it is. I had a similar reaction the first time listening to a section of Breaking All Illusions.
There are definitely sections of Illumination Theory that have this effect.
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This song is so many things to me right now...aside from the obviously amazing orchestral/string section in the middle, and the mind-blowingly great guitar solo and last vocal verses at the end, the instrumental moments throughout this piece remind me so much of classic Yes and ELP, as well as a bit of Rush and Genesis at times. It's like Dream Theater went back to their prog-roots and wrote some pretty classic-sounding things on this whole album, but especially this song!
-Marc.
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I don't know rest of you but for me, IT's V. Surrender, Trust & Passion section is the most intense piece of music just because of James' vocal delivery probably since ACoS's Another World section.
Yeah, TCOT's last section, TBOT or even TSCO are such emotional songs but there is something "intense" and deep feeling in JLB's voice in section V. Yes I cried a lot as well. :blush :lol
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I didn't cry but I think I will when I'll hear it live on stage. I'm pretty sure of it.
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Count me in too. I cry my heart out when the string section comes in. Btw, thanks for sharing and for starting this topic man. IT is unearthly beauty.
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Count me in too. I cry my heart out when the string section comes in. Btw, thanks for sharing and for starting this topic man. IT is unearthly beauty.
You're welcome, and yes the strings section was the detonator, it was just to much joy on a piece of music. I have to be honest it has only happened a couple of times to me, one of those was with Learning to Live, but i have this deep meaningful feeling for LtL, and the second time happened when I saw them live for the first time along with my dad, I couldn't avoid it, my old man was right there for me in such a wonderful moment.
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Did something similar happen to you guys?
Yep. DT is the only band/artist that can do that to me. Cried twice the first time i listened to IT lol :blush First the orchestral section, and then the ending. Both sections are just so incredibly beautiful and emotional. Too much for me to handle lol :hefdaddy
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I may or may not have shed a few tears on the third or fourth listen of IT, when I finally realized how it all, the whole song and album, all of it was coming together in the last verse of the song. James did it for me.
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IT is a great song...... at 11:00. Just awesome.
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Sorry to bother with this, but it just made me cry, I'm serious, i cant tell what happened, i was just listening to it for the first time, and suddenly, tears, melody, instrumentation, sections, lyrics, mix, everything, JL, JP, JMX, MM, JR thanks for such a glorious moment in my life.
Did something similar happen to you guys?
YES!!! I'm so glad that you created this thread. This has actually happened to me twice now upon listening to it. It always happens at the part where James is singing:
To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain
When you surrender to the light
You can face the darkest days
I don't know if it's the lyrics, the instrumentation, or a combination of both, but I just start sobbing uncontrollably.
Passion glows within your heart
Like a furnace burning bright
Until you struggle through the dark
You’ll never know the joy in life
When this part comes up I start to tear up....
I just imagine youre telling someone that they can be so good at something, but they just dont choose to do so. And because they can't take that path you have to say good bye forever.
:'(
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A few manly tears were she'd.
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Many beautiful pieces of music have moved me to tears. Seeing The Spirit Carries On during the Luna Park theater showing definitely did. The middle part of Illumination Theory definitely gives me chills.
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What brings tear to your eyes is such a personal experience. Some songs that people find incredibly moving just make me want to punch people. And other songs that aren't moving to most people make me want to cry. My emotional DT experience is The Spirit Carries On; I loved DT in the early 90s but didn't like FiF so I stopped listening until somewhere around 2007-2008, not sure exactly when. At that point, I was listening to random music on Pandora and The Spirit Carries On came on. I was blown away that DT recovered from FiF and instantly became a fan again. And then very shortly after I found that a good friend of mine's wife, sweethearts since high school, died suddenly in her late 20s from a freak incidence of pneumonia. And at that point I had just discovered TSCO and was listening to it over and over, and all of a sudden that song just took on a new meaning for me... Ever since, that song brings tears to my eyes; good lord, I'm dripping tears now.
Music is amazing. IT doesn't make *me* cry, but it's a beautiful song and it has that sort of potential. No doubt that some folks right now are developing their own personal attachment to it.
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Rebels for their freedom
A tyrant for the prize
Cowards for salvation
Money, love, and faith
FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKK YYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
Just heard this for the first time!!!
(https://evilengineering.com/gallery/d/38658-2/mother-of-god-super-troopers.jpg)
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What brings tear to your eyes is such a personal experience. Some songs that people find incredibly moving just make me want to punch people. And other songs that aren't moving to most people make me want to cry. My emotional DT experience is The Spirit Carries On; I loved DT in the early 90s but didn't like FiF so I stopped listening until somewhere around 2007-2008, not sure exactly when. At that point, I was listening to random music on Pandora and The Spirit Carries On came on. I was blown away that DT recovered from FiF and instantly became a fan again. And then very shortly after I found that a good friend of mine's wife, sweethearts since high school, died suddenly in her late 20s from a freak incidence of pneumonia. And at that point I had just discovered TSCO and was listening to it over and over, and all of a sudden that song just took on a new meaning for me... Ever since, that song brings tears to my eyes; good lord, I'm dripping tears now.
Music is amazing. IT doesn't make *me* cry, but it's a beautiful song and it has that sort of potential. No doubt that some folks right now are developing their own personal attachment to it.
Wow
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Sorry to bother with this, but it just made me cry, I'm serious, i cant tell what happened, i was just listening to it for the first time, and suddenly, tears, melody, instrumentation, sections, lyrics, mix, everything, JL, JP, JMX, MM, JR thanks for such a glorious moment in my life.
Did something similar happen to you guys?
The last section of the song almost did that to me. It's a great climax, with great melody, lyrics and instrumentation.
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Im currently going through the worst heartache i can imagine, and Illumination Theory is so helpful to me. Its so therapeutic, and I can relate to all the lyrics. "The bridges we built to connect, the distance that makes us forget. Hate dividing us - love reminding us of our shared humanity" especially. like, i fucking feel the anger in those words and relate so well. Surrender Trust and Passion is still actually too hard too listen to right now, and truth be told I end up cutting the song short right there. I get a sick feeling in my stomach when the instrumental section ends and trasintions into the final part. I know that if i continue listening any further i'll end up going on a feels trip that i really dont want to go on right now. But the few times i did listen to that part, it was a healing experience, a painful healing experience, if that makes sense. In fact, this whole album is really a very therapeutic experience for me and every song seems to give me a little bit more encouragement every day to get through the struggle.
I'm so sorry for your troublesome times. I can absolutely relate, as there have been hundreds of times when I wanted to listen to a song that I loved so much, but I just couldn't because of the emotional baggage and pain that was attached with it. And whenever I did have the courage to listen, I would get that sick, nauseous feeling in my gut.
You're right about this sensation having the capacity to be a healing experience. I believe that it is unhealthy to suppress these emotions all of the time, and sometimes you just need to let them run wild despite the pain.
"The Luckiest" by Ben Folds is a song that I love, but to this day it is extremely difficult for me to listen to. However, a couple times a year, I revisit it and just let the pain breathe.
I really hate to sound cliche, especially in trying to comfort someone going through difficult times, but time is absolutely the best remedy for pain, and surely you will begin to heal. And you will be stronger at the end of it all. I always thought that when people said this, they were just BS'ing me. But you really will gain strength as you deal with whatever has been causing you so much pain.
I hope this helps, even just a tiny bit.
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I just read a great interview with John & James in dutch magazine called Aardschok. The interviewer googled Illumination Theory and came with this...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminationism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminationism)
Check Augustine's left hand! :omg:
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:panicattack:
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:panicattack:
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I just read a great interview with John & James in dutch magazine called Aardschok. The interviewer googled Illumination Theory and came with this...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminationism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminationism)
Check Augustine's left hand! :omg:
:omg: :omg: :omg: :omg:
Mind blown.
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:panicattack:
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Why is that surprising? Christian iconography is pretty much dripping with flaming hearts :lol
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Why is that surprising? Christian iconography is pretty much dripping with flaming hearts :lol
The world is full of 5s and 8s too but we don't let that get in the way of a good :omg:
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Why is that surprising? Christian iconography is pretty much dripping with flaming hearts :lol
The world is full of 5s and 8s too but we don't let that get in the way of a good :omg:
Speaking of which, yesterday I saw an old license plate (the ones with just progressive numbers) reading CA (my city) - 586666. The Octavarium Of The Beast.
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If I get a vanity license plate, it will have 8VM somewhere in it.
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If I get a vanity license plate, it will have 8VM somewhere in it.
I could easily fit ProgSnob. :laugh:
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If I get a vanity license plate, it will have 8VM somewhere in it.
You could do...
8VM DT or DT 8VM
OR...
8VARIUM (most vanity plates allow 7 characters)
-Marc.
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This song feels ... I'm not sure. It doesn't feel like a "DT epic" but it feels exactly like a "DT epic" .... I'm not sure if I absolutely love the song or just like it a lot.
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IT starts out as a pretty cool song, but when it hits the instrumental orchestra section and from that point forward that's when it turns into a true epic.
Excellent song overall though. :tup
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Is it just me, or the first notes of Illumination Theory sound like ABBA's Dancing Queen? :lol :lol :lol
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On first listen, late at night...with headphones....when the orchestral section started up after the meditative soundscape prior to it, I was brought to tears. The first time this has happened with a new DT song since SDOIT.
Lovely tune!
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The riffs in this song are absolutely insane.
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It's a very special song. Really connects. It's up there with DT's best and yeah, during the middle section it can really tug
on the heart strings.
I feel sorry for the people that can't connect with it like many of us can.
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..... and it seems to come together more with every listen. What a fantastic song.
This!
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The riffs in this song are absolutely insane.
This album is full of " F--- Yeah ! " moments.
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Just finished my first listen - need a few more to really get it I think. Absolutely one of the killer tracks of their recent albums.
However, what's with the last couple minutes? Either the silence is too long, or I'm missing something...
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Just finished my first listen - need a few more to really get it I think. Absolutely one of the killer tracks of their recent albums.
However, what's with the last couple minutes? Either the silence is too long, or I'm missing something...
It's supposed to be a surprise moment.
Illumination Theory finishes at 19 minutes or so. The final few mins are just an added little treat.
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I really like IT except for the 30 secs of JR circus music that is a requirement nowadays at the 6:00 mark or so
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I really like IT except for the 30 secs of JR circus music that is a requirement nowadays at the 6:00 mark or so
Ugh, the "circus" criticism of DT has to be the most meaningless criticism of a band I ever hear, and I hear it so often, too. DT has never made any music that sounds remotely like a circus.
In this case, the part you're describing is supposed to be reminiscent of baroque music.
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I really like IT except for the 30 secs of JR circus music that is a requirement nowadays at the 6:00 mark or so
Ugh, the "circus" criticism of DT has to be the most meaningless criticism of a band I ever hear, and I hear it so often, too. DT has never made any music that sounds remotely like a circus.
In this case, the part you're describing is supposed to be reminiscent of baroque music.
<3 baroque
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I really like IT except for the 30 secs of JR circus music that is a requirement nowadays at the 6:00 mark or so
Ugh, the "circus" criticism of DT has to be the most meaningless criticism of a band I ever hear, and I hear it so often, too. DT has never made any music that sounds remotely like a circus.
In this case, the part you're describing is supposed to be reminiscent of baroque music.
Apparantly I am not the only incorrect person out there:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Rudess
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:rollin :rollin :rollin
That's just urbandictionary trolls
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Great source! :biggrin:
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I dont want to bring down the value of this thread anymore than I have :) So I apologize and other than that IT is a masterpiece :metal
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It's a very special song. Really connects. It's up there with DT's best and yeah, during the middle section it can really tug
on the heart strings.
I feel sorry for the people that can't connect with it like many of us can.
So much this.
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Best song on the album... Maybe a little too much soloing , but I can live with that.
The Orchestral part is the best shit ever on DT album.!
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I don't know how they still do it. This might be the best song that they've ever done.......
Let's see if I still feel this way in 6 months.
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I don't know how they still do it. This might be the best song that they've ever done.......
I'm not prepared to go that far with it.
But it's really friggin' good.
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I will just say James LaBrie you fucking beauty...
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5.1 IT is an amazing experience. It makes full use of the 5.1
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I don't know how they still do it. This might be the best song that they've ever done.......
I'm "afraid" this could be easily true.
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I had shivers down my spine many times in that song and the album. Love it! Only one play through so far and many more to come! :hefdaddy
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I don't think I've ever cried just by listening to a song.
You put on the series finale of Full House though.....Niagara Falls :'(
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Only two moments in music have made my eyes water. The string break in IT, and the solo in The Count of Tuscany in the bootleg from July 10, 2010. That's saying something, especially considering the amount of nostalgia that contributes to the latter.
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The first half of this song is really growing me... This song is turning out to be quite the beast. :metal
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Is it just me, or the first notes of Illumination Theory sound like ABBA's Dancing Queen? :lol :lol :lol
I guess DT and ABBA are both inspired by Tchaikovsky in their own respective songs. :lol
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I don't think I've ever cried just by listening to a song.
You put on the series finale of Full House though.....Niagara Falls :'(
Come on man hahahahah
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This was the only song I hadn't heard prior to buying the CD.... When I heard it I was floored. The theme is so uplifting yet sad at the same time. Every part of this song just kills. The highlight is, of course, the string section performing Jordan's Godly melody. :hefdaddy Seriously, The Embracing Circle is the most beautiful piece of music I've ever heard from this band. I didn't cry, but I did bow my head and felt the presence of God. It's THAT good. :angel: When the band comes back in it's like a punch in the gut, with JM and MM doing some killer unisons, followed by James doing something I haven't heard in 20 years, reaching the higher registers like a boss. Then comes the most epic metal instrumental section since I don't know when. I mean this song has it all. The "easter egg" is another Godly moment that is just amazing. I can't praise this song enough.
Dream Theater's best song. Period. :hefdaddy
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If you listen carefully you can hear the Bridges in the Sky vocal effect patch from JR. It is in the segue into the ambient part.
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Hi guys, I have a question for you. If you listen to the initial part of the Easter Egg through headphones (where there's only Jordan playing alone), you can hear a strange - more or less rythmical - sound in the background. Sounds like a thin metal surface vibrating or something like that... don't know how to explain but if you listen carefully you'll hear it. So, what's that in your opinion?
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Hi guys, I have a question for you. If you listen to the initial part of the Easter Egg through headphones (where there's only Jordan playing alone), you can hear a strange - more or less rythmical - sound in the background. Sounds like a thin metal surface vibrating or something like that... don't know how to explain but if you listen carefully you'll hear it. So, what's that in your opinion?
Pretty sure thats the pedal of the piano going up and down. It can sound like that in a recording environment
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Hi guys, I have a question for you. If you listen to the initial part of the Easter Egg through headphones (where there's only Jordan playing alone), you can hear a strange - more or less rythmical - sound in the background. Sounds like a thin metal surface vibrating or something like that... don't know how to explain but if you listen carefully you'll hear it. So, what's that in your opinion?
Pretty sure thats the pedal of the piano going up and down. It can sound like that in a recording environment
Thank you Systematik!! :tup
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This song is absolutely growing on me, it's incredible DT have come up with something like this. After ADTOE, I was skeptical to see what they had left in them, but this song is absolutely legit and is an instant DT classic. The last section gave me goosebumps listening in the car on the way to work this morning. Well done DT.
Also, does anyone have any theories about the point of the easter egg? Has any of the band members talked about it. I like it and all, but I guess I'm just thinking, why?
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This song is absolutely growing on me, it's incredible DT have come up with something like this. After ADTOE, I was skeptical to see what they had left in them, but this song is absolutely legit and is an instant DT classic. The last section gave me goosebumps listening in the car on the way to work this morning. Well done DT.
Also, does anyone have any theories about the point of the easter egg? Has any of the band members talked about it. I like it and all, but I guess I'm just thinking, why?
I was thinking the same! I like the song itself, but is there a bigger meaning for it o.o
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We must know the bigger picture! I read somewhere (here?) some guy saying it's a teaser for the next concept album, focused on that theme. I chuckled :lol
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We must know the bigger picture! I read somewhere (here?) some guy saying it's a teaser for the next concept album, focused on that theme. At first I was like
(https://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh103/raibz_hgd/Untitled_zpse1b1a838.png)
Then I lol'd.
(https://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh103/raibz_hgd/Untitled_zpsd5c00dd6.png)
FTFY
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That's cool shit.
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I have to point out how awesome 2:40 is in the song. It only lasts a short time but it has to be one of my favorite small moments from the album
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I finished IT in HD.
This song is beautiful. A 10/10, probably.
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This song is absolutely growing on me, it's incredible DT have come up with something like this. After ADTOE, I was skeptical to see what they had left in them, but this song is absolutely legit and is an instant DT classic. The last section gave me goosebumps listening in the car on the way to work this morning. Well done DT.
Also, does anyone have any theories about the point of the easter egg? Has any of the band members talked about it. I like it and all, but I guess I'm just thinking, why?
As many have said before me, I think it works perfectly has a closer: it embodies the sense of peace and bliss after the amazing ride, after the great travel that the album symbolizes. To me, it feels like the happiness and sweet satisfatcion of the accomplished goal. Unearthly goal maybe? Because it's too beautiful to be something tied to the gravity. A glimpse into some kind of enlightment, or a brand new awareness of the soul.
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This song is absolutely growing on me, it's incredible DT have come up with something like this. After ADTOE, I was skeptical to see what they had left in them, but this song is absolutely legit and is an instant DT classic. The last section gave me goosebumps listening in the car on the way to work this morning. Well done DT.
Also, does anyone have any theories about the point of the easter egg? Has any of the band members talked about it. I like it and all, but I guess I'm just thinking, why?
As many have said before me, I think it works perfectly has a closer: it embodies the sense of peace and bliss after the amazing ride, after the great travel that the album symbolizes. To me, it feels like the happiness and sweet satisfatcion of the accomplished goal. Unearthly goal maybe? Because it's too beautiful to be something tied to the gravity. A glimpse into some kind of enlightment, or a brand new awareness of the soul.
I think it works too, was just curious as to what the band where trying to accomplish. I see what you are getting at, it definitely makes sense, and well said.
Also, I love the melody at 13:06.
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To me, it feels like the happiness and sweet satisfatcion of the accomplished goal. Unearthly goal maybe? Because it's too beautiful to be something tied to the gravity. A glimpse into some kind of enlightment, or a brand new awareness of the soul.
Someone please send this sentence to the band. They need to read it.
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IT for me is a bombastic masterpiece. This is how I like DT. The best piece of music they ever done (in my own opinion).
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Does anyone else think the Easter Egg would have worked better as the quiet section rather than the orchestra? Not saying the orchestra is bad by any means; but at least that way the band is still playing. Either way the song is awesome. That section starting at 11:00 :omg: :metal
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Nope. Orchestra bit is the best part, definitely wouldn't change it.
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This song is absolutely growing on me, it's incredible DT have come up with something like this. After ADTOE, I was skeptical to see what they had left in them, but this song is absolutely legit and is an instant DT classic. The last section gave me goosebumps listening in the car on the way to work this morning. Well done DT.
Also, does anyone have any theories about the point of the easter egg? Has any of the band members talked about it. I like it and all, but I guess I'm just thinking, why?
Purely speculation, but to me, the easter egg music may serve two purposes, and will be the twin brother of False Awakening Suite. So just as FAS is meant to kickstart the theatrical nature of the album, and open the live setting, the easter egg music does the same thing at the other end. Meaning - 1. after a cinematic ride of an album, it acts to close out the album, as if some credits were rolling in a film; and 2. In a live setting, I think it might be played once the concert is over, and the people start filing out of the arena etc...
Just my 2 cents.. :)
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This song is absolutely growing on me, it's incredible DT have come up with something like this. After ADTOE, I was skeptical to see what they had left in them, but this song is absolutely legit and is an instant DT classic. The last section gave me goosebumps listening in the car on the way to work this morning. Well done DT.
Also, does anyone have any theories about the point of the easter egg? Has any of the band members talked about it. I like it and all, but I guess I'm just thinking, why?
Purely speculation, but to me, the easter egg music may serve two purposes, and will be the twin brother of False Awakening Suite. So just as FAS is meant to kickstart the theatrical nature of the album, and open the live setting, the easter egg music does the same thing at the other end. Meaning - 1. after a cinematic ride of an album, it acts to close out the album, as if some credits were rolling in a film; and 2. In a live setting, I think it might be played once the concert is over, and the people start filing out of the arena etc...
Just my 2 cents.. :)
That is more than reasonable.
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This song is absolutely growing on me, it's incredible DT have come up with something like this. After ADTOE, I was skeptical to see what they had left in them, but this song is absolutely legit and is an instant DT classic. The last section gave me goosebumps listening in the car on the way to work this morning. Well done DT.
Also, does anyone have any theories about the point of the easter egg? Has any of the band members talked about it. I like it and all, but I guess I'm just thinking, why?
Purely speculation, but to me, the easter egg music may serve two purposes, and will be the twin brother of False Awakening Suite. So just as FAS is meant to kickstart the theatrical nature of the album, and open the live setting, the easter egg music does the same thing at the other end. Meaning - 1. after a cinematic ride of an album, it acts to close out the album, as if some credits were rolling in a film; and 2. In a live setting, I think it might be played once the concert is over, and the people start filing out of the arena etc...
Just my 2 cents.. :)
That's what I thought too!! Just like FAS opens up the movie, the easter egg means it's over, and the credits are rolling :)
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The bass and drum after the strings section is just to much win to even explain.
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To me, it feels like the happiness and sweet satisfatcion of the accomplished goal. Unearthly goal maybe? Because it's too beautiful to be something tied to the gravity. A glimpse into some kind of enlightment, or a brand new awareness of the soul.
Someone please send this sentence to the band. They need to read it.
Thank you Marco, I hope they do read sometimes through these threads. There's a tremendous appreciation going on and they should really be aware of this.
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Maybe the first song of the next album can begin with some continuation of the easter egg...
Wouldn't make much sense considering they usually like to open with a real energetic bang, but it's cool to think about.
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I'd say that the strings section in this song makes it the fastest DT song to ever make me lose it.
Literally upon 2nd listen, tears were apparent. Now every time I listen to the dam thing they are streaming down my face.
The first half reminds me of a "Saving Private Ryan" esque movie score. And when the main song theme comes in in the 2nd half... my god.
Thank you DT.
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This album is so good! I can't pick a favorite song. Of all DTs catalogue, however, this song is by far the most epic. Not necessarily in length, but in the range of emotions it evokes. I mean, for me this song is like a friggin religious experience. :2metal:
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This song is absolutely growing on me, it's incredible DT have come up with something like this. After ADTOE, I was skeptical to see what they had left in them, but this song is absolutely legit and is an instant DT classic. The last section gave me goosebumps listening in the car on the way to work this morning. Well done DT.
Also, does anyone have any theories about the point of the easter egg? Has any of the band members talked about it. I like it and all, but I guess I'm just thinking, why?
Purely speculation, but to me, the easter egg music may serve two purposes, and will be the twin brother of False Awakening Suite. So just as FAS is meant to kickstart the theatrical nature of the album, and open the live setting, the easter egg music does the same thing at the other end. Meaning - 1. after a cinematic ride of an album, it acts to close out the album, as if some credits were rolling in a film; and 2. In a live setting, I think it might be played once the concert is over, and the people start filing out of the arena etc...
Just my 2 cents.. :)
That's what I thought too!! Just like FAS opens up the movie, the easter egg means it's over, and the credits are rolling :)
So...they're kind of like..."scenes"?
:neverusethis:
-Marc.
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This has grown on me somewhat with repeated listens. I just wish the strings section and the breakdown before it were not there. They ruin the flow and sound generic. I would rather that section was based on the Easter Egg. The ending vocals also make me cringe as it sounds like JLB is starting to struggle. It definitely has great moments though. Just doesn't fit together well IMHO.
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*appreciates*
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This is in my top 5 "must see live" DT songs. I'm super curious how they will pull it off.
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Maybe the first song of the next album can begin with some continuation of the easter egg...
Definitely.
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I love that song, the vocal melody in the second verse is pretty killer.
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Holy crap, this song gets better every time I hear it. It is rivaling my favorites in the DT catalogue. It's got everything.
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The song's too short. The length diminishes some of my enjoyment. There's just not much actual song before the interlude. I don't like the pacing. Also, the song has terrible transitions. Still an amazing song.
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I absolutely loved the song. I got chills so bad, like Octavarium type chills. I told my buddy who is a fan of DT that Illumination Theory is like Octavarium, but better.
Tears did not fall, but the song moved me across the hall if that's what you're wondering.
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The drum and bass groove after the string section is easily one of my favorite DT moments. So unique to this album and it just sounds killer.
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Literally upon 2nd listen, tears were apparent. Now every time I listen to the dam thing they are streaming down my face.
Since you opened the door for such admissions I have to admit something similar happened to me at Surrender, Trust & Passion, the back vocals melody is what got to me.
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I love the part around 14 minutes where JP plays those last few notes and you hear JM under it, then Jordan comes in with his solo and the guitar riff under it is the bad ass one from the beginning of the song. Just amazing.
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The drum and bass groove after the string section is easily one of my favorite DT moments. So unique to this album and it just sounds killer.
Is amazing.
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I absolutely loved the song. I got chills so bad, like Octavarium type chills. I told my buddy who is a fan of DT that Illumination Theory is like Octavarium, but better.
Both are great, and have amazing high points, but Octavarium works so much better as one song.
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I absolutely loved the song. I got chills so bad, like Octavarium type chills. I told my buddy who is a fan of DT that Illumination Theory is like Octavarium, but better.
Both are great, and have amazing high points, but Octavarium works so much better as one song.
Octavarium just takes too long to get going for me. I have a hard time not losing interest in the first 10 minutes. It's an issue I have always had from day 1 with that song too, so it's not just because I'm listening to something fresh and new. i really enjoy 8V, but I actually really feel I enjoy IT more..
With IT, I don't have a problem with the transitioning of the song at all that many mention, and I actually love the pacing and length - particularly after repeated listens, and now it is more familiar. The embracing Circle flows perfectly from Live, Die, Kill for me (which is a brilliant and underrated section IMO), and I absolutely love the change up of the Pursuit of Truth. It's unexpected, and kicks you in the face, and I think is completely the intention. It's different, and to me, thats the true art of 'progressive'. Some incredible vocals in this section too. Then that ending - as good an ending to any DT song in my opinion. Love the solo and the combination of the rawness of James' vocals. Complete chills..
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I absolutely loved the song. I got chills so bad, like Octavarium type chills. I told my buddy who is a fan of DT that Illumination Theory is like Octavarium, but better.
Both are great, and have amazing high points, but Octavarium works so much better as one song.
Octavarium just takes too long to get going for me. I have a hard time not losing interest in the first 10 minutes. It's an issue I have always had from day 1 with that song too, so it's not just because I'm listening to something fresh and new. i really enjoy 8V, but I actually really feel I enjoy IT more..
With IT, I don't have a problem with the transitioning of the song at all that many mention, and I actually love the pacing and length - particularly after repeated listens, and now it is more familiar. The embracing Circle flows perfectly from Live, Die, Kill for me (which is a brilliant and underrated section IMO), and I absolutely love the change up of the Pursuit of Truth. It's unexpected, and kicks you in the face, and I think is completely the intention. It's different, and to me, thats the true art of 'progressive'. Some incredible vocals in this section too. Then that ending - as good an ending to any DT song in my opinion. Love the solo and the combination of the rawness of James' vocals. Complete chills..
I can certainly understand why people love IT, because I love most of the song too, but it just doesn't *quite* get there for me. Almost every section is a highlight, and yet as a whole, it feels like much less than the sum of its parts to me, if that makes sense. There's not enough flow for it to work cohesively as one song, and the payoff doesn't work for me (I really don't think the ending is up to the standard of the rest of the song).
But as I said, I can certainly understand why people love the song. I love most of the pieces, and I want to love the song, but it just doesn't quite click for me as a whole. Maybe with time it will happen. It's not at all ruled out!
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I absolutely loved the song. I got chills so bad, like Octavarium type chills. I told my buddy who is a fan of DT that Illumination Theory is like Octavarium, but better.
Both are great, and have amazing high points, but Octavarium works so much better as one song.
Octavarium just takes too long to get going for me. I have a hard time not losing interest in the first 10 minutes. It's an issue I have always had from day 1 with that song too, so it's not just because I'm listening to something fresh and new. i really enjoy 8V, but I actually really feel I enjoy IT more..
With IT, I don't have a problem with the transitioning of the song at all that many mention, and I actually love the pacing and length - particularly after repeated listens, and now it is more familiar. The embracing Circle flows perfectly from Live, Die, Kill for me (which is a brilliant and underrated section IMO), and I absolutely love the change up of the Pursuit of Truth. It's unexpected, and kicks you in the face, and I think is completely the intention. It's different, and to me, thats the true art of 'progressive'. Some incredible vocals in this section too. Then that ending - as good an ending to any DT song in my opinion. Love the solo and the combination of the rawness of James' vocals. Complete chills..
I can certainly understand why people love IT, because I love most of the song too, but it just doesn't *quite* get there for me. Almost every section is a highlight, and yet as a whole, it feels like much less than the sum of its parts to me, if that makes sense. There's not enough flow for it to work cohesively as one song, and the payoff doesn't work for me (I really don't think the ending is up to the standard of the rest of the song).
But as I said, I can certainly understand why people love the song. I love most of the pieces, and I want to love the song, but it just doesn't quite click for me as a whole. Maybe with time it will happen. It's not at all ruled out!
Excellent my friend, and certainly wouldn't be the first DT song to click totally down the track, if you find that happens.. It really shows the diversity of the DT fans, in how we like different sections and transitions of songs. Like, I for one think the easter egg music is perfectly placed, and i don't feel the great need to explore it any more, than its current status as the 'credits rolling' ending of the album. But many others would like to see it as it's own song. So it really is cool and enjoyable to see the diversity of opinions.. :tup
It must be said, that IT is a song that sounds AMAZING on the HD tracks and 5.1 mix versions too.. The entire album is obviously great in these formats, but for such a beast of a song, and with such a beautiful orchestral section - these mixes really add to the track, and is just brilliant!
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I'm really considering getting the HDTracks, as it's a good mix, and it may help me appreciate the album, and this song more.
I've never loved so much of a song and yet not had it click as a whole, so I only see my opinion going up rather than down, so that's a start.
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I absolutely loved the song. I got chills so bad, like Octavarium type chills. I told my buddy who is a fan of DT that Illumination Theory is like Octavarium, but better.
Both are great, and have amazing high points, but Octavarium works so much better as one song.
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I'm really considering getting the HDTracks, as it's a good mix, and it may help me appreciate the album, and this song more.
I've never loved so much of a song and yet not had it click as a whole, so I only see my opinion going up rather than down, so that's a start.
Yea mate, well worth it. I figured for the amount of joy the band has brought me over the years, some extra $$ to get the albums with a great mix was well worth it (I actually grabbed ADTOE as well at the same time). In Australia, I had no issues just using paypal on the site. I found it immediately less loud, but then when you turn the volume up, you get a real crispness instead of any distortion, and it really helped me appreciate the album even more - and I was actually someone who was fine with the original mix. Kinda feels like blu ray compared to a DVD, but for the sound only if that makes sense..
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I shed a few tears during the first listen of DT12. Can't recall which song or part it was though. :facepalm:
However, nothing will ever compare to the situation I was in while listening to "Collapse The Light Into Earth" by Porcupine Tree.
I went out to visit my ex gf for the first time. I intended to stay 3 days, but we were having such a great time that I stayed a month. The day before I had to head back home I learned that we couldn't have a future unless I somehow became Pentecostal and gave my life to God.
She had so much faith that I could become a believer. I told her that I could promise her anything except for learning to believe.
We were driving down a country road past huge cornfields at around midnight the day before I had to go, and Collapse The Light Into Earth came on. We just drove and listened, and didn't say anything. We knew it was over. We were so in love, but religion kept us apart. To this day, it is extremely difficult to listen to that song.
Another one that kills me is "Heart Attack In a Layby" by PT as well.
Well, fuck.
Thanks for sharing that moment, man.
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Holy crap, this song gets better every time I hear it. It is rivaling my favorites in the DT catalogue. It's got everything.
Came here today to bascially post this. It's amazing, and Surrender, Trust and Passion is one of DT's greatest moments, James is perfect here.
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Absolutely amazing. I can´t imagine a dry eye in the audience when that ending comes up...thank you, DT. :hefdaddy
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At 17:17 where James sings 'You'll never know that you're alive" is just absolutely incredible and then the same line into the climax is seriously a contendor for best DT moment, absolutely insane.
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I basically shat in my pants when I heard James sing "mothers for their children". It's so strong I have no words describing it. I was sitting on a bus and I noticed myself having my mouth open wide, looking like I was gonna puke but I was more like going to choke from the emotion.
Oh well, always glad to amuse fellow travelers. :-)
and yeah, I was shedding tears. So in love
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The ending of Octavarium made my eyes water a little the first time I heard it (and maybe on some occasions after) with how beautiful it is. I had a similar reaction the first time listening to a section of Breaking All Illusions.
There are definitely sections of Illumination Theory that have this effect.
Same for me. I have to say, I think the first half of octavarium is ok, but the last half is great. Bai hit me the very first listen.
When I finished my first listen of IT I turned to my wife and told her the next listen I may need tissues. So many emotions!
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I had a listening party with a friend to hear the album for the first time. We would frequently make comments and observations throughout the album. When the "rebels for their freedom" section came in, we had to stop mid sentence because wed never heard JLB with that kind of power is years. It really brought a smile to my face. (It was similar to "everyone was interrupted by that note.) Currently I have this as my their favorite DT epic. We'll see how long that holds up.
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I'm having a bit of a hard time digesting this one. There are a lot of things I REALLY like about it. But as a song, it definitely has not yet clicked with me yet as a whole.
The different parts seem very disjointed. They may fall into place better once I have a better appreciation of the song as a whole, but the very disparate feeling parts make the song a very jarring experience right now. Also, the sharp transitions and overabundance of odd meters in the first half of the song are tough to take in. In context of the song, I get why it is structured that way. As I understand it now, I believe the first half of the song is supposed to sound very disjointed and jarring (I know I used this adjective already, but I think it is the best description for the song as a whole), as it appears to try to musically reflect the chaos before illumination/enlightenment, whereas the more traditional meters and more smooth transitions in the latter part of the song reflect a more post-illumination/enlightenment feeling of harmony. But although it is a cool concept and an interesting and creative way of executing that concept, I am still not sure it makes for an enjoyable or satisfying listening experience. Still, again, it takes awhile for something this complex to click, so I'm giving this song the benefit of the doubt. And, again, there are so many really good parts. In particular, I LOVE the main riff in Live, Die, Kill. Very reminiscent of the riff in The Eye (from SX's The Odyssey). :metal I also love the dissonant piano behind the riff after the first chorus of Live, Die, Kill. Interestingly, that is also a very Symphony X sounding moment. Hmm... So many good moments overall. I just am still waiting for that moment where the whole thing clicks. Hasn't quite happened yet.
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The bass and drum after the strings section is just to much win to even explain.
I love the whole thing, but this gave me a very warm Cygnus X-1 moment.
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(https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/tjanuranus/ScreenShot2013-09-26at111915PM_zpsaf083808.png)
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Holy crap, this song gets better every time I hear it. It is rivaling my favorites in the DT catalogue. It's got everything.
Came here today to bascially post this. It's amazing, and Surrender, Trust and Passion is one of DT's greatest moments, James is perfect here.
THIS!
I am crying with a raging hardon during the last 4-5 minutes of IT. God DT has kicked my ass once again.
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Almost all of this song is still slowly growing on me after several listens, with three exceptions:
1) I find the first few minutes to be fairly uninteresting.
2) The orchestral section is beautiful, but does not sound remotely original to me.
3) The "never know"s at the end are way over the top IMO.
Other than that and a bit of disjointedness as others have noted, the song contains some of the most awesome moments on the album. One of my favorite parts is Petrucci's LTE-esque solo in the first half.
-J
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2) The orchestral section is beautiful, but does not sound remotely original to me.
Can you explain, what do you mean by original?
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If it's "absolutely beautiful", why does it matter whether it's original? ???
For the record, I agree with the statement, but don't see it as a problem at all. It's probably my favourite part of the entire album.
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It's a straight up orchestral section, that sounds intentionally arranged in a very traditional way, as opposed to being unorthodox (there's the rest of the song for that). I feel like the whole point was to sound like a classic cinematic movie score, but the context of how it's used in the song is what makes it different.
Yes, I've heard orchestral scores arranged similarly before. And I've heard the Tchaikovsky piece that has a very similar melody to it. But they don't give me the same feeling as this does.
It's so beautiful, and makes me feel like I'm watching the finale of a classic 40s/50s movie. It evokes so much feeling, and that's what matters to me in music, not whether or not I've heard something sort of similar before.
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Totally agree.
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If it's "absolutely beautiful", why does it matter whether it's original?
This..... and
It's probably my favourite part of the entire album.
SO MUCH THIS!!!!! :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
The orchestral part of IT is the most epic part of any epic ever penned by Dream Theater. Sure, it bares some resemblance to a certain 19th century romantic, but there's nothing wrong with giving a nod to influences.
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It's a straight up orchestral section, that sounds intentionally arranged in a very traditional way, as opposed to being unorthodox (there's the rest of the song for that). I feel like the whole point was to sound like a classic cinematic movie score, but the context of how it's used in the song is what makes it different.
Yes, I've heard orchestral scores arranged similarly before. And I've heard the Tchaikovsky piece that has a very similar melody to it. But they don't give me the same feeling as this does.
It's so beautiful, and makes me feel like I'm watching the finale of a classic 40s/50s movie. It evokes so much feeling, and that's what matters to me in music, not whether or not I've heard something sort of similar before.
Yep.
Although I must say that it is not my favorite part of the song. And furthermore, my daughter actually prefers the ambient sound effect section immediately preceding the strings. She calls it "the beautiful part."
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It's a straight up orchestral section, that sounds intentionally arranged in a very traditional way, as opposed to being unorthodox (there's the rest of the song for that). I feel like the whole point was to sound like a classic cinematic movie score, but the context of how it's used in the song is what makes it different.
Yes, I've heard orchestral scores arranged similarly before. And I've heard the Tchaikovsky piece that has a very similar melody to it. But they don't give me the same feeling as this does.
It's so beautiful, and makes me feel like I'm watching the finale of a classic 40s/50s movie. It evokes so much feeling, and that's what matters to me in music, not whether or not I've heard something sort of similar before.
Yep.
Although I must say that it is not my favorite part of the song. And furthermore, my daughter actually prefers the ambient sound effect section immediately preceding the strings. She calls it "the beautiful part."
Yeah, I'd rather go with the ambient part than the orchestral one. I mean, the orchestral part is beautiful and all, but it doesn't move me.
B.Lee
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It's a straight up orchestral section, that sounds intentionally arranged in a very traditional way, as opposed to being unorthodox (there's the rest of the song for that). I feel like the whole point was to sound like a classic cinematic movie score, but the context of how it's used in the song is what makes it different.
Yes, I've heard orchestral scores arranged similarly before. And I've heard the Tchaikovsky piece that has a very similar melody to it. But they don't give me the same feeling as this does.
It's so beautiful, and makes me feel like I'm watching the finale of a classic 40s/50s movie. It evokes so much feeling, and that's what matters to me in music, not whether or not I've heard something sort of similar before.
Yep.
Although I must say that it is not my favorite part of the song. And furthermore, my daughter actually prefers the ambient sound effect section immediately preceding the strings. She calls it "the beautiful part."
I don't get that at all. It's basically just wind chime samples. It's pleasant and all, but it's not even music. :dunno:
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Okay, Surrender, Trust and Passion could be DT's crowning achievement, I can't believe how good this is.
Also, on another point regarding the lyrics, are any of the band members religious or anything? Does anyone have a clue where the subject matter evolved from? It's the lyrics in S,T&P that hit me. It has obvious religious influneces, but also are simply terrific lyrics for anyone living their life the best they can. Fabulous lyrics and overall delivery.
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It's a straight up orchestral section, that sounds intentionally arranged in a very traditional way, as opposed to being unorthodox (there's the rest of the song for that). I feel like the whole point was to sound like a classic cinematic movie score, but the context of how it's used in the song is what makes it different.
Yes, I've heard orchestral scores arranged similarly before. And I've heard the Tchaikovsky piece that has a very similar melody to it. But they don't give me the same feeling as this does.
It's so beautiful, and makes me feel like I'm watching the finale of a classic 40s/50s movie. It evokes so much feeling, and that's what matters to me in music, not whether or not I've heard something sort of similar before.
Yep.
Although I must say that it is not my favorite part of the song. And furthermore, my daughter actually prefers the ambient sound effect section immediately preceding the strings. She calls it "the beautiful part."
I don't get that at all. It's basically just wind chime samples. It's pleasant and all, but it's not even music. :dunno:
Of coarse its music! Inuit Eskimos making clicking sounds out there mouths is music. (Inuit throat music) It may not make sense to you but its music.
The classical section of the song is an amazing melody. Somewhere in heaven, Mozart just faped to it!
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Of coarse its music! Inuit Eskimos making clicking sounds out there mouths is music. (Inuit throat music) It may not make sense to you but its music.
The classical section of the song is an amazing melody. Somewhere in heaven, Mozart just faped to it!
I mean, there is some vague resemblance of notes in there, but it's barely what I'd call music. To me it's just the dead air I have to skip between the awesome bits. I don't understand how anyone could like it more than the music music, especially something so thoroughly gorgeous as that orchestral section. Every time I listen to it, it's like I have to tell myself not to cry. DON'T CRY, BLOB. BE STRONG!
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So I'm sitting at work this morning, listening to IT on my headphones. Anyone familiar with the screen utility F.lux will understand how much my mind was blown when my work screen transitioned from late night (pink-ish) to early morning (more white-ish) in PERFECT synchronization with the transition from II. "Live, Die, Kill" to III. "The Embracing Circle". :metal
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Of coarse its music! Inuit Eskimos making clicking sounds out there mouths is music. (Inuit throat music) It may not make sense to you but its music.
The classical section of the song is an amazing melody. Somewhere in heaven, Mozart just faped to it!
I mean, there is some vague resemblance of notes in there, but it's barely what I'd call music. To me it's just the dead air I have to skip between the awesome bits. I don't understand how anyone could like it more than the music music, especially something so thoroughly gorgeous as that orchestral section. Every time I listen to it, it's like I have to tell myself not to cry. DON'T CRY, BLOB. BE STRONG!
I thought you were talking about the orchestrated section not birds chirping. Sorry, I need to pay better attention! Oh dopey me. :biggrin:
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Of coarse its music! Inuit Eskimos making clicking sounds out there mouths is music. (Inuit throat music) It may not make sense to you but its music.
The classical section of the song is an amazing melody. Somewhere in heaven, Mozart just faped to it!
I mean, there is some vague resemblance of notes in there, but it's barely what I'd call music. To me it's just the dead air I have to skip between the awesome bits. I don't understand how anyone could like it more than the music music, especially something so thoroughly gorgeous as that orchestral section. Every time I listen to it, it's like I have to tell myself not to cry. DON'T CRY, BLOB. BE STRONG!
[/quote
I actually really enjoy the ambient bit. I think it works really well.
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Of coarse its music! Inuit Eskimos making clicking sounds out there mouths is music. (Inuit throat music) It may not make sense to you but its music.
The classical section of the song is an amazing melody. Somewhere in heaven, Mozart just faped to it!
I mean, there is some vague resemblance of notes in there, but it's barely what I'd call music. To me it's just the dead air I have to skip between the awesome bits. I don't understand how anyone could like it more than the music music, especially something so thoroughly gorgeous as that orchestral section. Every time I listen to it, it's like I have to tell myself not to cry. DON'T CRY, BLOB. BE STRONG!
I thought you were talking about the orchestrated section not birds chirping. Sorry, I need to pay better attention! Oh dopey me. :biggrin:
Oh hell no! If I said such a thing about the orchestral section, I'd deserve a swift kick to the face. It's my favourite part of the album. :tup
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It's a straight up orchestral section, that sounds intentionally arranged in a very traditional way, as opposed to being unorthodox (there's the rest of the song for that). I feel like the whole point was to sound like a classic cinematic movie score, but the context of how it's used in the song is what makes it different.
Yes, I've heard orchestral scores arranged similarly before. And I've heard the Tchaikovsky piece that has a very similar melody to it. But they don't give me the same feeling as this does.
It's so beautiful, and makes me feel like I'm watching the finale of a classic 40s/50s movie. It evokes so much feeling, and that's what matters to me in music, not whether or not I've heard something sort of similar before.
Yep.
Although I must say that it is not my favorite part of the song. And furthermore, my daughter actually prefers the ambient sound effect section immediately preceding the strings. She calls it "the beautiful part."
I don't get that at all. It's basically just wind chime samples. It's pleasant and all, but it's not even music. :dunno:
Well, she's ten years old and she thinks it's beautiful.
She likes the rest of the song too.
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Well, she's ten years old and she thinks it's beautiful.
She likes the rest of the song too.
I'M NOT JUDGING YOUR DAUGHTER. PLEASE DON'T KILL ME.
Nothing wrong with liking the ambient part! I'm just so in love with that string section that I demand it be everybody's favourite part too.
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Okay, Surrender, Trust and Passion could be DT's crowning achievement, I can't believe how good this is.
Also, on another point regarding the lyrics, are any of the band members religious or anything? Does anyone have a clue where the subject matter evolved from? It's the lyrics in S,T&P that hit me. It has obvious religious influneces, but also are simply terrific lyrics for anyone living their life the best they can. Fabulous lyrics and overall delivery.
I agree with you, wolf! Petrucci has always written many lyrics inspired by religious themes, so this makes me think he must be quite interested in the matter =)
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Well, she's ten years old and she thinks it's beautiful.
She likes the rest of the song too.
I'M NOT JUDGING YOUR DAUGHTER. PLEASE DON'T KILL ME.
OK, just this once. :biggrin:
Nothing wrong with liking the ambient part! I'm just so in love with that string section that I demand it be everybody's favourite part too.
I understand. But I think my favorite part is when the drums & bass come in right after that. :metal
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Well, looks like I'm on seventh heaven, cause I simply love the whole transition instrumental > ambient > strings > bass and drum.
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Nothing wrong with liking the ambient part! I'm just so in love with that string section that I demand it be everybody's favourite part too.
I understand. But I think my favorite part is when the drums & bass come in right after that. :metal
That is also a very acceptable answer! :metal
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Yeah, I love the strings, but the whole time I'm thinking, "This is gorgeous, but the bass & drums are coming up soon"
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Yeah, I love the strings, but the whole time I'm thinking, "This is gorgeous, but the bass & drums are coming up soon"
This. Not only that, I love when JP adds the *chugga chugga* at 11:52. Really amps up that section for me. :metal
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Here's how you put an orchestral section in the middle of a song and make it work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HotjzABI0w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HotjzABI0w)
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The song is really just..... ok in my opinion. Some nice parts are scattered here and there, but there is really nothing to keep me interested and invested for much more than few spins. And i just hate how they waste such a nice orchestral piece to such a lackluster song, they should have ditched the FAS and used this as an intro to the album.
Also i see that the problems in this song applies to the whole album. Parts of the album are much better than entire songs. And to me this is easily the most inconsistent album they have ever made.
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The melody in JP's solo before the ambient/symphonic part is one of the most beautiful things DT have come up with, and I think it transitions horribly into the ambient section. They should have just built off of "Live, Die, Kill" IMO.
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I feel it could have had better transitions if this had been the order:
Illumination Theory
I The Embracing Circle
II Paradoxe de le Lumiere Noire
III Live, Die, Kill
IV The Pursuit of Truth
V Surrender, Trust, and Passion
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2) The orchestral section is beautiful, but does not sound remotely original to me.
Can you explain, what do you mean by original?
If it's "absolutely beautiful", why does it matter whether it's original? ???
For the record, I agree with the statement, but don't see it as a problem at all. It's probably my favourite part of the entire album.
If it's "absolutely beautiful", why does it matter whether it's original?
This.....
I don't know, I feel like I've heard it countless times before, and it's just a little too cliched for me to get too excited about it. That doesn't mean it's unpleasant to my ears.
-J
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I posted this above but;
Also, on another point regarding the lyrics, are any of the band members religious or anything? Does anyone have a clue where the subject matter evolved from? It's the lyrics in S,T&P that hit me. It has obvious religious influneces, but also are simply terrific lyrics for anyone living their life the best they can.
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Of coarse its music! Inuit Eskimos making clicking sounds out there mouths is music. (Inuit throat music) It may not make sense to you but its music.
The classical section of the song is an amazing melody. Somewhere in heaven, Mozart just faped to it!
I mean, there is some vague resemblance of notes in there, but it's barely what I'd call music. To me it's just the dead air I have to skip between the awesome bits. I don't understand how anyone could like it more than the music music, especially something so thoroughly gorgeous as that orchestral section. Every time I listen to it, it's like I have to tell myself not to cry. DON'T CRY, BLOB. BE STRONG!
I don't agree at all, it's definitely music. It's just ambient/atmospheric, rather than melodic. On the whole I prefer the latter, but I still love the former as well and can totally understand why someone would like that section so much.
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Yeah, I love the strings, but the whole time I'm thinking, "This is gorgeous, but the bass & drums are coming up soon" :angry:
And that's why we love so much Dream Theater.
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Of coarse its music! Inuit Eskimos making clicking sounds out there mouths is music. (Inuit throat music) It may not make sense to you but its music.
The classical section of the song is an amazing melody. Somewhere in heaven, Mozart just faped to it!
I mean, there is some vague resemblance of notes in there, but it's barely what I'd call music. To me it's just the dead air I have to skip between the awesome bits. I don't understand how anyone could like it more than the music music, especially something so thoroughly gorgeous as that orchestral section. Every time I listen to it, it's like I have to tell myself not to cry. DON'T CRY, BLOB. BE STRONG!
I don't agree at all, it's definitely music. It's just ambient/atmospheric, rather than melodic. On the whole I prefer the latter, but I still love the former as well and can totally understand why someone would like that section so much.
Totally agree as well.
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I posted this above but;
Also, on another point regarding the lyrics, are any of the band members religious or anything? Does anyone have a clue where the subject matter evolved from? It's the lyrics in S,T&P that hit me. It has obvious religious influneces, but also are simply terrific lyrics for anyone living their life the best they can.
John Petrucci is a devout Catholic. Proof? Listen to that entire DTF Q&A with the band. He says it once, specifically on the subject of the lyrics. He does not intend for them to be preachy, or to be specifically of Christianity. He intends for them to be of interpretable definition.
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Love the song. Does anyone else hear Rush Caress of Steel(not sure which song)in the crazy bass part after the orchestra section of IT? Also, I do not get the silent part near the end as well as the actual end of the song . I like how Octavarium ended much better.
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Love the song. Does anyone else hear Rush Caress of Steel(not sure which song)in the crazy bass part after the orchestra section of IT? Also, I do not get the silent part near the end as well as the actual end of the song . I like how Octavarium ended much better.
FYI - the song ends around 19 minutes, then after a break of silence, an Easter Egg track appears. Those fans who kept up with the studio diary videos from a couple months ago saw the band's DT 12 Progress Chart, the bottom of the chart listed an "Easter Egg" that was only JR and JP, so that's what we got at the end of the album.
A lot of fans, myself included, feel like it's the End Credits of the "film" that is the album, with "False Awakening Suite" being the Opening Credits.
-Marc.
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Love the song. Does anyone else hear Rush Caress of Steel(not sure which song)in the crazy bass part after the orchestra section of IT?
Actually, that bass and drum rhythm (the very beginning of it) reminds me a little of the section around 11:50 in Spock's Beard's The Great Nothing (the rhythmic breakdown before the "The boy has got potential, but he's never had commercial success..." part).
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I've heard the song enough now to have an opinion on it. The first third is absolutely perfect. The second third is also great, although I'd be lying if I said the similarities to other orchestral pieces didn't bother me a touch. The final third has its moments, but it's the definitely the weakest section to me.
Overall, an incredible song. Amazing end to an amazing album!
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I keep getting the riffs from this song stuck in my head, that is the 12/8 riff right after the thematic intro, and the 4/4 riff that kicks in just before the verse and continues lower during the verse. Best riffs on the entire album. :metal :metal
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I've heard the song enough now to have an opinion on it. The first third is absolutely perfect. The second third is also great, although I'd be lying if I said the similarities to other orchestral pieces didn't bother me a touch. The final third has its moments, but it's the definitely the weakest section to me.
Overall, an incredible song. Amazing end to an amazing album!
At last!! :hefdaddy :tup
And I would add that the "screams" of JLB at the end sounds a bit ridiculous to me... :facepalm:
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The string section in IT is so amazing. JR could clearly be a composer and write music for movies. When I hear that part, I picture
soldiers heading home from war after years of long and hard battles. They lost many friends, but they made it, and are reflecting upon
the entire experience. And then I picture other scenes of beautiful weddings and the couples having their first
dance to this piece. Those were my first two thoughts when I first heard the song.
Ahem...I think i need a beer a football game to watch ASAP.
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Love the song. Does anyone else hear Rush Caress of Steel(not sure which song)in the crazy bass part after the orchestra section of IT?
Actually, that bass and drum rhythm (the very beginning of it) reminds me a little of the section around 11:50 in Spock's Beard's The Great Nothing (the rhythmic breakdown before the "The boy has got potential, but he's never had commercial success..." part).
MM also compared this part of the song to The Great Nothing in the interview accessible on the QR code page.
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Great song. One of my favourite sections is the "noble and brave, lay down our lives for the cause..." from 12:04 to 12:18. I wish they repeated that musically again. Such an awesome section
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I love how Illumination Theory will simply be known as IT. It. *That* song.
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I love how Illumination Theory will simply be known as IT. It. *That* song.
Agreed!!!
Listening to it now... DAT wah solo o.o
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iv. The Pursuit of Truth
:metal
just amazing . . .
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Love the song. Does anyone else hear Rush Caress of Steel(not sure which song)in the crazy bass part after the orchestra section of IT? Also, I do not get the silent part near the end as well as the actual end of the song . I like how Octavarium ended much better.
Actually, I was thinking the music combined with the high notes had a 80's/90's metal sound to it. :metal
Now the big question is will James be able to hit those notes night after night....
Doesn't make me cry, but makes me rock out, chill out, rock out, and smile at the end. Love the break, a nice change for them. This song should be edited for a single.
I am crying with a raging hardon...
:lol
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Man I can already imagine the crowd's reactions to that main riff when it gets started. Instant live classic! :metal
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I'm a sucker for a heavy song in swung 8ths - they're always so catchy.
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Man I can already imagine the crowd's reactions to that main riff when it gets started. Instant live classic! :metal
I'm already getting goosebumps thinking about it.
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I can't wait to see them play this in February :metal
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Man I can already imagine the crowd's reactions to that main riff when it gets started. Instant live classic! :metal
I'm already getting goosebumps thinking about it.
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IT 6:00 - 6:56 is the best part of this new album.
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I enjoy this entire song, even the orchestra section, which has grown on me quite a bit (such a beautiful melody :heart ). I could have done with it concluding at 10:17, but it's all good.
I could swear that when the song comes back in at 11:10 it sounds like the volume has been lowered from what it was BEFORE the orchestra section.
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Am I the only person who thinks the Pursuit of Truth is the weakest part of the song? I think the whole JLB screaming thing sounded pretty forced.
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Am I the only person who thinks the Pursuit of Truth is the weakest part of the song? I think the whole JLB screaming thing sounded pretty forced.
Yeah, probably ;)
I think the screams are perfectly executed, my favourite JLB moment on the album.
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Am I the only person who thinks the Pursuit of Truth is the weakest part of the song? I think the whole JLB screaming thing sounded pretty forced.
I absolutly agree.
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Am I the only person who thinks the Pursuit of Truth is the weakest part of the song? I think the whole JLB screaming thing sounded pretty forced.
I can't say how much I love that part :metal :metal :metal
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Am I the only person who thinks the Pursuit of Truth is the weakest part of the song? I think the whole JLB screaming thing sounded pretty forced.
Not being a huge fan of this album, that part is easily my favorite part of the whole record. And probably the coolest thing they've done in years. It might feel forced because it's super high an probably very tough to hit.
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Sorry to bother with this, but it just made me cry, I'm serious, i cant tell what happened, i was just listening to it for the first time, and suddenly, tears, melody, instrumentation, sections, lyrics, mix, everything, JL, JP, JMX, MM, JR thanks for such a glorious moment in my life.
Did something similar happen to you guys?
Yes.
The same thing happened to me while listening to ADTOE for the first time, on BAI and BTS: I cried my eyes out so I had a hunch something similar could happen this time (and thus snuck for a private first spin for preventing any crazy fan girl -accusations). And it did, as soon as the orchestral part started. And again after lyrics: "To really feel the joy in life..." etc.
It's a mixed feeling, partly caused by the music, the lyrics and the overall feel but also a sense of joy every time I first listen to a new DT album and get to the last track...it's almost as saying: "They're back! They did it again!".
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Is the love for the orchestra section unanimous? Because -as much as I would like to love it- it just feels a tad cheesy, at least at this point. It reminded me of some Disney movies of my childhood, not an association I'm keen to have with DT.
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Is the love for the orchestra section unanimous? Because -as much as I would like to love it- it just feels a tad cheesy, at least at this point. It reminded me of some Disney movies of my childhood, not an association I'm keen to have with DT.
???
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Okay, that's what I thought. :lol I reckon it'll grow on me, some of my favorite DT tunes seemed cheesy on the first few listens. (Innocence Faded, the second half of SFAM...)
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great song, one of their best in years. And some younger fans appreciates it too ;) :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU :metal
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Okay, that's what I thought. :lol I reckon it'll grow on me, some of my favorite DT tunes seemed cheesy on the first few listens. (Innocence Faded, the second half of SFAM...)
I understand what you mean about the string section, but it sounds beautiful to me but it could perfectly fit in (insert movie here). Innocence Faded was cheesy and lame in 1994, and it still cheesy and lame today. :D
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Is the love for the orchestra section unanimous? Because -as much as I would like to love it- it just feels a tad cheesy, at least at this point. It reminded me of some Disney movies of my childhood, not an association I'm keen to have with DT.
I do not love the orchestra section as much as the majority.
The first part of the orchestra is completely unfitting to the song. Sounds like a classical piece from the baroque era of music. Not a big fan.
The second part, where the orchestra revisits the main theme of the song, is great! It fits in perfectly and is very emotional. So my opinion is kind of split, but I do think The Embracing Circle is the weakest part of the song. (<3 the ambience)
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Is the love for the orchestra section unanimous? Because -as much as I would like to love it- it just feels a tad cheesy, at least at this point. It reminded me of some Disney movies of my childhood, not an association I'm keen to have with DT.
I'd expect something Disney to sound more simply positive and happy, while IT's orchestral section feels much more mature and complex in the emotion it's getting across to me.
It doesn't remind me of Disney, it actually reminds me of older movies, like Vertigo or something.
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Part V. is just truly epic. A fantastic finale. Their best since the end of six degrees. It is the perfect blend of vocals, orchestra, and then emotional guitar solo to the end. The only thing that would make it better is if the story of the concept was more focused so that the finale had an emotional punch lyrically as well. It does to a certain extent but what if there was a specific person suffering through out the song whose story we are drawn into, and then that finale starts with "To really feel the joy in life, You must suffer though the pain." I think I would be in tears.
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After repeated listens i m happy to say this song is starting to click for me :)
Even if the other songs are pretty bad IMO, this album is worth getting just for this song.
It's far from perfect, but its pretty damn good. I have a feeling this song is gonna stand the test of time, and be in heavy rotation in their live shows in the future!
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Is the love for the orchestra section unanimous? Because -as much as I would like to love it- it just feels a tad cheesy, at least at this point. It reminded me of some Disney movies of my childhood, not an association I'm keen to have with DT.
It's pretty cinematic, but not Disney at all IMO. The most Disney thing that DT has written is the overture to Six Degrees.
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Is the love for the orchestra section unanimous? Because -as much as I would like to love it- it just feels a tad cheesy, at least at this point. It reminded me of some Disney movies of my childhood, not an association I'm keen to have with DT.
I'd expect something Disney to sound more simply positive and happy, while IT's orchestral section feels much more mature and complex in the emotion it's getting across to me.
It doesn't remind me of Disney, it actually reminds me of older movies, like Vertigo or something.
Disney movies in the '90s could get pretty grim and serious (or maybe it was always like that: https://youtu.be/NhQtW28StKQ?t=11m58s). Anyway, the first time I listened to it, I got a flashback of a 101 Dalmatians, which, coincidentally, was made within three years of Vertigo. :justjen The impression only got stronger later on, especially concerning part 9:32-10:15 (just can't stand that kitschy melody @ 9:43-9:53). Anyway, I hope it'll grow on me, because the song itself is a huge favorite.
It's pretty cinematic, but not Disney at all IMO. The most Disney thing that DT has written is the overture to Six Degrees.
I'm not trying to argue that it's Disney, I haven't even heard those songs for over a decade. It's just the impression that emerged from the stream of my unconsciousness. :lol Anyway, it's the type of epic, over the top, cinematic melody that verges on pretentious and I have a hard time incorporating it into the rest of the song, as of right now. :(
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that verges on pretentious
wat
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Anyway, it's the type of epic, over the top, cinematic melody
??? It's a very simple melody, nothing over the top that I can see.
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I find the overall sound of said parts a bit too epic and grandiose, hence "over the top". Anyway, I don't want to get into semantics, obviously this is just my personal point of view. I don't mean to bash on the song, I'm biased towards it and I liked the idea of a slow, simple orchestra section in the middle (Close to the Edge popped in when I first read about it in the reviews), but I don't believe in euphemisms and this is the way I wanted to voice my opinion, just out of sheer curiosity to see whether or not anyone agrees. Opinions are usually highly mixed on DTF and seemed uncanny that everyone thought the orchestra section was so perfect. I'm really looking forward to joining that group soon enough.
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I don't hear anything over the top or cheesy with that section, I think it fits and it's great just the way it is.
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great song, one of their best in years. And some younger fans appreciates it too ;) :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU :metal
Holy shit, this is amazing. Mangini needs to see this. :metal
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Is the love for the orchestra section unanimous? Because -as much as I would like to love it- it just feels a tad cheesy, at least at this point. It reminded me of some Disney movies of my childhood, not an association I'm keen to have with DT.
It's pretty cinematic, but not Disney at all IMO. The most Disney thing that DT has written is the overture to Six Degrees.
I actually think 'The Best of Times' is pretty Disney sounding. When my wife first heard that song she was like "That's cute, sounds like it's out of Aladdin.. ;D"
The orchestra section in IT is just gorgeous though, don't get Disney at all with it...
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I love the orchestra section of the song, but not the part before it. When I first heard it, I was a bit reminded of the end of COT with the nature sounds and it worked to end COT, but not IT. A killer drum solo /bass solo would have been great in its place.
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I really wish I enjoyed the song as much as most of you. I just really can't get into that ending. The cheesy, preachy lyrics, followed by the whaling vocals, followed by what is possibly the most meandering and uninspired lead Petrucci has ever done.
And Mangini doing the single hand snare roll at the end just so he can hit the gong is just stupid. That's something appropriate for a drum solo, not in a song.
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And Mangini doing the single hand snare roll at the end just so he can hit the gong is just stupid.
Are you complaining of something that's barely noticeable and that hardly makes a difference in the song?
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And Mangini doing the single hand snare roll at the end just so he can hit the gong is just stupid.
Are you complaining of something that's barely noticeable and that hardly makes a difference in the song?
I believe he is jealous that Mangini can do something he can't do
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And Mangini doing the single hand snare roll at the end just so he can hit the gong is just stupid. That's something appropriate for a drum solo, not in a song.
You cannot be serious.
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great song, one of their best in years. And some younger fans appreciates it too ;) :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU :metal
That kit sounds beautiful. I would have loved for the drums to sound like that on the album
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The first part of the orchestra is completely unfitting to the song. Sounds like a classical piece from the baroque era of music. Not a big fan.
Baroque era? I'm not sure that's quite accurate. Sounds pretty romantic to me. Many have called the Tchaikovsky influences too.
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Last night I was driving my Mercedes and decided to listen through Illumination Theory.
I have to say that this song has propably the best JLB since Awake.. He sounds so amazing x___x
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And Mangini doing the single hand snare roll at the end just so he can hit the gong is just stupid.
Are you complaining of something that's barely noticeable and that hardly makes a difference in the song?
Unreal, isn't it... Welcome to the wacky world of DT fans! ;D
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The first part of the orchestra is completely unfitting to the song. Sounds like a classical piece from the baroque era of music. Not a big fan.
Baroque era? I'm not sure that's quite accurate. Sounds pretty romantic to me. Many have called the Tchaikovsky influences too.
Bang on, it sounds absolutely nothing like baroque music. :lol
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Has anyone else noticed a few seconds in IT from about 2:55-3:02, it sounds like a real tip of the hat to the Crimson Sunrise in ACOS? Not sure if it's on purpose, but well cool nonetheless...
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And Mangini doing the single hand snare roll at the end just so he can hit the gong is just stupid. That's something appropriate for a drum solo, not in a song.
You cannot be serious.
I'm completely serious.
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Well - he didn't need to do it one handed as it sounds slightly sloppy. They could have overdubbed one gong hit.
I do like how JP's solo screams into view at about 14:35. It's like he kicks the channel on and it announces itself :lol
STFU Jordan - it's my time to shine.. Warrrggghhhh !!!! :metal
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So i've come to appreciate this song much more after repeated listens, but i don't really like JLB's singing at the part "You'll never know the joy of life", it sounds strained and is way to much for me, but overall it's a good song.
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The first part of the orchestra is completely unfitting to the song. Sounds like a classical piece from the baroque era of music. Not a big fan.
Baroque era? I'm not sure that's quite accurate. Sounds pretty romantic to me. Many have called the Tchaikovsky influences too.
Bang on, it sounds absolutely nothing like baroque music. :lol
Yeah! The baroque section is at 6:00, not the string section. :lol
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great song, one of their best in years. And some younger fans appreciates it too ;) :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU :metal
Holy shit, this is amazing. Mangini needs to see this. :metal
:omg: :hefdaddy
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So i've come to appreciate this song much more after repeated listens, but i don't really like JLB's singing at the part "You'll never know the joy of life", it sounds strained and is way to much for me, but overall it's a good song.
I thought he said "you'll never know that your alive"
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great song, one of their best in years. And some younger fans appreciates it too ;) :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU :metal
Holy shit, this is amazing. Mangini needs to see this. :metal
:omg: :hefdaddy
Mesmerizing stuff. Wow.
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The second time I've heard it, I had so many shivers down my spine during the "To really feel the joy in life" section onwards. I kinda had tears in my eyes, but didn't actually cry, though the chills came over and over again for at least another 10 times.
This album has at least 3 songs I can officially consider some of DT's best work to date (The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Illumination Theory). The entire album is definitely in the better half of my top DT albums list, still not sure where I'd put it, but it's an amazing album really.
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Am I the only one who hears Jordan's nod to Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No 1 in the Illumination Theory's main theme (00:05, 10:18 etc.)? If you don't know what I'm talking about, listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItSJ_woWnmk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItSJ_woWnmk), the theme shows up right in the beginning after the first piano chords.
And BTW, Martha Argerich is amazing, well worth listening to the whole thing in its own right. Tchaikovsky certainly knew how to write epics.
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:facepalm: That has been discussed TO DEATH all over this forum. You're not the only one ! :lol :P
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oops, sorry :-)
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great song, one of their best in years. And some younger fans appreciates it too ;) :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU :metal
Holy shit, this is amazing. Mangini needs to see this. :metal
:omg: :hefdaddy
Haha. I *started* when I was 15 !!!
20 years later and he's already better than I ever was ! :P
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So i've come to appreciate this song much more after repeated listens, but i don't really like JLB's singing at the part "You'll never know the joy of life", it sounds strained and is way to much for me, but overall it's a good song.
I thought he said "you'll never know that your alive"
Yeah i mean this whole section, i just gave the lyrics as a time reference. I think it is the worse JLB part on all of the album actually.
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great song, one of their best in years. And some younger fans appreciates it too ;) :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU :metal
I had no idea the drum part was this awesome. Too bad I have such trouble hearing it on the album. :-\
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Anyone else HAVE to sing along with the echoing background vocals in the final section? Whenever I listen to it I just can't help singing along. It makes the whole finale feel so much more powerful.
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Guys, was the middle section ripped off? I've heard a YT link to some classical song that sounded just like the intro to IT, but is all of the middle orchestral section ripped off as well? Near the end of the orchestral section, it reprises the intro melody, but there are some really pretty parts of the orchestral section that don't sound ripped off.
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Guys, was the middle section ripped off? I've heard a YT link to some classical song that sounded just like the intro to IT, but is all of the middle orchestral section ripped off as well? Near the end of the orchestral section, it reprises the intro melody, but there are some really pretty parts of the orchestral section that don't sound ripped off.
This has been discussed over and over, including just a few posts before yours.
It isn't a ripoff, but it may certainly be a nod.
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This has been discussed over and over, including just a few posts before yours.
It isn't a ripoff, but it may certainly be a nod.
I'm aware it's been discussed over and over again, but I just wanted to clarify if the entire orchestral section was a "nod" to that classical piece. I can definitely hear some of it from that Tchaikovsky (sp?) piece, but to my ears there are at least 2 different melodies in the orchestral piece, and some of it sounds 100% original
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Well the song inspired me to go out and buy Charlie Chaplins Limelight on blu-ray. Its properly 15-20 years since I last saw the movie, but Limelight was the first thing that came to mind when I heard the orchestral section for the first time. So I had to check out if it just was my imagination or if there was a resembles.
I did not really find any resembles, but they both trigger the same emotions of sadness and loss in me and that is properly why I thought it sounded like Limelight. Which btw is an exellent movie and it looks amazing on blu-ray. I can highly recommend it :tup
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I don't know if it's just me, but the very beginning of IT makes me think of Lost Not Forgotten, when the band enters. I'm not accusing them of being unoriginal of course, that would just be silly. :lol But it does give the same vibe, at least for me.
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whaling vocals
I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. But it if is just silly trolling like the rest of your post appears to be, please knock it off.
The first part of the orchestra is completely unfitting to the song. Sounds like a classical piece from the baroque era of music. Not a big fan.
Baroque era? I'm not sure that's quite accurate. Sounds pretty romantic to me. Many have called the Tchaikovsky influences too.
Bang on, it sounds absolutely nothing like baroque music. :lol
Okay, so now that we've established that it ain't baroque, I think we can safely assume that it don't need fixin'.
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:clap:
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I'm not trolling at all. I'm stating my honest opinion of the song. What I meant by "whaling" vocals is the "never no" part at the end. Just seems like he's improvising that whole section. Seems like a part that should have been cut, or had another take.
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I don't know if it's just me, but the very beginning of IT makes me think of Lost Not Forgotten, when the band enters. I'm not accusing them of being unoriginal of course, that would just be silly. :lol But it does give the same vibe, at least for me.
Yes, this occured to me too. They're in the same key after all.
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Okay, so now that we've established that it ain't baroque, I think we can safely assume that it don't need fixin'.
I was counting down the posts until we saw that joke posted.
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I knew it would be you, bosky.
I knew it would be you.
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This just hit me. The first part of the song is posing the questions, then the ambient and orchestral sections are the reflection and examination of the questions, finally the next section is the answers to those question.
Seems really obvious, and I don't know why I didn't really think about that before.
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I knew it would be you, bosky.
I knew it would be you.
Yup, Classical Bosk,
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This just hit me. The first part of the song is posing the questions, then the ambient and orchestral sections are the reflection and examination of the questions, finally the next section is the answers to those question.
Seems really obvious, and I don't know why I didn't really think about that before.
Interesting.
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The "Dimebag" sounding riff from 4:57-5:50 is amazing!
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The "Dimebag" sounding riff from 4:57-5:50 is amazing!
When you mentioned Dimebag, I thought you were going to mention the riff at 1:21, which sounds a bit Pantera-ish to me. Reminds me of Revolution Is My Name.
Which is a good thing. IT is full of awesome riffs. :metal
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This song is amazing. Although I made an edit without the Disneycore, I'd rather listen to the full song. The orchestral part is beautiful.
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It's just silly to think they would even "rip off" something.
What, is Rudess like "Eh, I'm feeling lazy, let me extract a classical piece from this song, and put it in our song."
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It's just silly to think they would even "rip off" something.
What, is Rudess like "Eh, I'm feeling lazy, let me extract a classical piece from this song, and put it in our song."
Given his musical background, it's possible he subconsciously recalled a bit of it unintentionally. It's also possible it's just coincidence, since it's only a few notes, and the feel is completely different anyway.
It's no big deal to me either way.
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It's just silly to think they would even "rip off" something.
What, is Rudess like "Eh, I'm feeling lazy, let me extract a classical piece from this song, and put it in our song."
Given his musical background, it's possible he subconsciously recalled a bit of it unintentionally. It's also possible it's just coincidence, since it's only a few notes, and the feel is completely different anyway.
It's no big deal to me either way.
I also recall JP saying he came up with that part on guitar during the ADTOE tour, not JR.
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Oh I didn't realize that!
It just tickles me that some people just try to find the comparisons between different music, and don't just accept it for what it is.
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It's just silly to think they would even "rip off" something.
What, is Rudess like "Eh, I'm feeling lazy, let me extract a classical piece from this song, and put it in our song."
Given his musical background, it's possible he subconsciously recalled a bit of it unintentionally. It's also possible it's just coincidence, since it's only a few notes, and the feel is completely different anyway.
It's no big deal to me either way.
I also recall JP saying he came up with that part on guitar during the ADTOE tour, not JR.
Damn, I was going to suggest that might be possible, since it's a typical JP style theme melody, although I thought it was less likely given that in this instance he didn't reprise the melody himself (unless I'm forgetting a bit).
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I just don't get those that seem to want to prove that DT are taking short cuts, stealing ideas or just on cruise control. Each member is arguably at the top of their respective ranks on their instruments. You don't get there by being lazy or taking short cuts. They work tirelessly to craft new, inspiring and innovative tunes for US, their fans. Have you ever counted the number of patches and styles JR puts into just ONE song just to get it to that just right feel and compliment to the rest of the song? And JP can solo with the best, but do you ever listen to the intricate parts he puts into his rhythm parts? He could get by with less, but these guys are perfectionists and professionals unlike most musicians you will encounter. Stop playing the "gotcha" game and appreciate what these guys do. I do not believe ANY of them will settle for less than their absolute best on each record.
If you don't realize this by the quality of this album, I wonder if you really get how special these guys are.
*hops down off soapbox*
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I just don't get those that seem to want to prove that DT are taking short cuts, stealing ideas or just on cruise control. Each member is arguably at the top of their respective ranks on their instruments. You don't get there by being lazy or taking short cuts. They work tirelessly to craft new, inspiring and innovative tunes for US, their fans. Have you ever counted the number of patches and styles JR puts into just ONE song just to get it to that just right feel and compliment to the rest of the song? And JP can solo with the best, but do you ever listen to the intricate parts he puts into his rhythm parts? He could get by with less, but these guys are perfectionists and professionals unlike most musicians you will encounter. Stop playing the "gotcha" game and appreciate what these guys do. I do not believe ANY of them will settle for less than their absolute best on each record.
If you don't realize this by the quality of this album, I wonder if you really get how special these guys are.
*hops down off soapbox*
This. And thank you.
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I just don't get those that seem to want to prove that DT are taking short cuts, stealing ideas or just on cruise control. Each member is arguably at the top of their respective ranks on their instruments. You don't get there by being lazy or taking short cuts. They work tirelessly to craft new, inspiring and innovative tunes for US, their fans. Have you ever counted the number of patches and styles JR puts into just ONE song just to get it to that just right feel and compliment to the rest of the song? And JP can solo with the best, but do you ever listen to the intricate parts he puts into his rhythm parts? He could get by with less, but these guys are perfectionists and professionals unlike most musicians you will encounter. Stop playing the "gotcha" game and appreciate what these guys do. I do not believe ANY of them will settle for less than their absolute best on each record.
If you don't realize this by the quality of this album, I wonder if you really get how special these guys are.
*hops down off soapbox*
Nice post! :tup
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*hops down off soapbox*
More like, *crushes soapbox and kicks the splinters to the curb*.
:tup
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I just don't get those that seem to want to prove that DT are taking short cuts, stealing ideas or just on cruise control. Each member is arguably at the top of their respective ranks on their instruments. You don't get there by being lazy or taking short cuts. They work tirelessly to craft new, inspiring and innovative tunes for US, their fans. Have you ever counted the number of patches and styles JR puts into just ONE song just to get it to that just right feel and compliment to the rest of the song? And JP can solo with the best, but do you ever listen to the intricate parts he puts into his rhythm parts? He could get by with less, but these guys are perfectionists and professionals unlike most musicians you will encounter. Stop playing the "gotcha" game and appreciate what these guys do. I do not believe ANY of them will settle for less than their absolute best on each record.
If you don't realize this by the quality of this album, I wonder if you really get how special these guys are.
*hops down off soapbox*
:tup
Nicely summed up.
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It's just silly to think they would even "rip off" something.
What, is Rudess like "Eh, I'm feeling lazy, let me extract a classical piece from this song, and put it in our song."
I think this song flows like a Muse epic so I'd attribute that to Petrucci wanting to do something similar.
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I just don't get those that seem to want to prove that DT are taking short cuts, stealing ideas or just on cruise control. Each member is arguably at the top of their respective ranks on their instruments. You don't get there by being lazy or taking short cuts. They work tirelessly to craft new, inspiring and innovative tunes for US, their fans. Have you ever counted the number of patches and styles JR puts into just ONE song just to get it to that just right feel and compliment to the rest of the song? And JP can solo with the best, but do you ever listen to the intricate parts he puts into his rhythm parts? He could get by with less, but these guys are perfectionists and professionals unlike most musicians you will encounter. Stop playing the "gotcha" game and appreciate what these guys do. I do not believe ANY of them will settle for less than their absolute best on each record.
If you don't realize this by the quality of this album, I wonder if you really get how special these guys are.
*hops down off soapbox*
This post is fucking legit.
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What is the piece that the string section of IT sounds similar to?
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I just listened to IT yet again on 5.1 and it is a thing of beauty. I give it a 4.75 / 5 . I probably enjoy it more than octavarium or ITPOE, and right there with TCoT (albeit different) This song has grown, and made me OPEN UP MY EYYYYEEEEESSSSS
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I'm very pleased to say that after four listens with a bit of time to reflect in between, I'm starting to get this song now. The ambient section in the middle followed by the string section is really beautiful and I can see why it has brought some people to tears, even if doesn't quite have that effect on me (yet). Several other moments, such as the ending chords, also give me chills.
One thing I don't get, though, is what the lyrics of the final section have to do with the lyrics of the rest of the song. What does this section have to do with "the question"?
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What is the piece that the string section of IT sounds similar to?
Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto Number One.
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Don't know if anyone has called this out yet but I love the nod to Razor's Edge final solo at 18:09. Chills all over again. Loving this song more and more.
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What is the piece that the string section of IT sounds similar to?
Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto Number One.
Thanks. :tup
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Don't know if anyone has called this out yet but I love the nod to Razor's Edge final solo at 18:09. Chills all over again. Loving this song more and more.
I don't hear any "nod" to Razor's Edge, but if there is, I'd say it's just JP using a similar fast pattern, rather than anything intentional.
I wouldn't rate the end solo of IT highly compared to JP's big epic outro solos such as 8V, TCOT, TBOT etc, but it is a cool solo though. JP is always on fire in that regard. :tup
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There's something that bugs me to no end. Around 17:30 where JLB sings "Never know, know that your aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive", exactly around the 17:35 mark, the effect on JLB's voice comes really out and it doesn't sound good to me. When JLB sustains the note, it sounds extremely artificial because there's a fake vibratto produced by the effect (or at least, that's how I perceive it). Reminds me a little of the effect used throughout the whole Chaos in Motion on James' voice, and I can't put my finger in to what effect it is.
You can go on with your lives. This song is still amazing.
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Agreed about that weird effect. It sounds awful.
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Agreed about that weird effect. It sounds awful.
It may not be to your personal liking, but nothing about the song sounds 'awful'. Time to lay off the Jamba Juice..
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I didn't notice and I am not going to actively look closer to notice it. That's one of my favourite moments of the album, I won't risk ruining it to myself.
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Agreed about that weird effect. It sounds awful.
It may not be to your personal liking, but nothing about the song sounds 'awful'. Time to lay off the Jamba Juice..
We're just talking about an effect on the voice, and that "annoying" moment only lasts a couple of seconds. Hence my "the song is still awesome".
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I didn't notice and I am not going to actively look closer to notice it. That's one of my favourite moments of the album, I won't risk ruining it to myself.
If you already like it, listening to it more closely isn't going to ruin it. And if it will, "ignorance is bliss" is a pretty bad way to enjoy music anyway.
I don't like the way he sings that section/line much anyway, but it has nothing to do with the vocal effects. I like the vocal production on the album a lot.
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I didn't notice and I am not going to actively look closer to notice it. That's one of my favourite moments of the album, I won't risk ruining it to myself.
If you already like it, listening to it more closely isn't going to ruin it. And if it will, "ignorance is bliss" is a pretty bad way to enjoy music anyway.
I don't like the way he sings that section/line much anyway, but it has nothing to do with the vocal effects. I like the vocal production on the album a lot.
So it's always better to scrutinize and dissect every single nano second of it? I guess just trying to enjoy a song is overrated.
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I didn't notice and I am not going to actively look closer to notice it. That's one of my favourite moments of the album, I won't risk ruining it to myself.
If you already like it, listening to it more closely isn't going to ruin it. And if it will, "ignorance is bliss" is a pretty bad way to enjoy music anyway.
I don't like the way he sings that section/line much anyway, but it has nothing to do with the vocal effects. I like the vocal production on the album a lot.
So it's always better to scrutinize and dissect every single nano second of it? I guess just trying to enjoy a song is overrated.
If you're intentionally ignoring potential flaws to enjoy something, you're trying a little too hard to enjoy it to the point of ignorance. It's like squinting really hard every time you meet your girlfriend because you're worried she might actually be ugly.
It's not even about finding flaws, it's about hearing nuances, and appreciating details. If you're glossing over details in your mind, you're missing out on that, for better and worse. If someone is truly good, it will elevate your appreciation, not destroy it. If wasteland already loves that bit, listening harder isn't going to affect that.
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Speaking of weird sounds, one that's always kind of bothered me was something JP does at 18:46...what IS that? It sounds out of place and I wish he had just sustained the note he was already playing.
-Marc.
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It's just a pinch harmonic, right?
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I didn't notice and I am not going to actively look closer to notice it. That's one of my favourite moments of the album, I won't risk ruining it to myself.
If you already like it, listening to it more closely isn't going to ruin it. And if it will, "ignorance is bliss" is a pretty bad way to enjoy music anyway.
I don't like the way he sings that section/line much anyway, but it has nothing to do with the vocal effects. I like the vocal production on the album a lot.
So it's always better to scrutinize and dissect every single nano second of it? I guess just trying to enjoy a song is overrated.
If you're intentionally ignoring potential flaws to enjoy something, you're trying a little too hard to enjoy it to the point of ignorance. It's like squinting really hard every time you meet your girlfriend because you're worried she might actually be ugly.
It's not even about finding flaws, it's about hearing nuances, and appreciating details. If you're glossing over details in your mind, you're missing out on that, for better and worse. If someone is truly good, it will elevate your appreciation, not destroy it. If wasteland already loves that bit, listening harder isn't going to affect that.
I understand what you say. Part of liking a band like Dream Theater is about those details. But I've noticed that here it's sometimes taken to a ridiculous level. People don't even listen to the music, they listen to which parts they can go "gotcha", it's ridiculous.
The part in question is something I haven't noticed yet and I'm not going to look for it, nit because I want to remain ignorant to it, but because such thing is insignificant to me.
If there's something about IT that has gotten a bit old is the strings part. Loved it at first, but the more I listen to it, the more out of place it sounds. It feels like a saving private Ryan or band of brothers ending credits song. Dare I say it sounds generic?
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I think the orchestra section would fit more at the beginning of the song, hence the edits.
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I think the orchestra section would fit more at the beginning of the song, hence the edits.
I was thinking more at the end instead of the piano part. Sure the song would be a few minutes shorter, but more cohesive IMO.
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I think the orchestra section would fit more at the beginning of the song, hence the edits.
I was thinking more at the end instead of the piano part. Sure the song would be a few minutes shorter, but more cohesive IMO.
Piano part? You mean the Easter Egg that isn't part of IT at all?
As for the placement of the orchestral section, I think it's perfect, both in terms of the musical flow and how it relates to the lyrical content of the piece itself. If the song opened with it, it would have that SDOIT feel to it. I like that all of DT's epics all open a bit differently and it gives us something exciting to hear with each one. By putting the orchestral section in the MIDDLE, we have an epic that is unlike any of DT's other epics.
-Marc.
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You know what's badass? Right on the 14 minute mark, when the song pauses, and MM slows down the pace with that drum fill, then BAM back into the groovy 12/8 riff, with the keyboard solo.
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(Maybe somebody already has written this) Part of the orchestral section is underneath JP's riff in the beginning of the song. Listen at 10:18 and then start the song from the beginning. The orchestral section is also reprised in some other parts of the song (from the 16 minute and to the end), but it is very subtle.
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I think the orchestra section would fit more at the beginning of the song, hence the edits.
I've heard the edits, and totally disagree. The problem with the orchestra at the start, is that it simply sounds like an overture. Then the transitions later in the piece, sound a little jarring, and really dont work that well together. With the orchestra in the middle, it breaks things up, progresses into a different beast altogether, and conveys a much bigger sense of going on a journey; that is completely lost when it is at the start. In fact, it was the edited versions that made me appreciate even more, that the song is just fine the way it is and was originally intended..
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Agreed about that weird effect. It sounds awful.
It may not be to your personal liking, but nothing about the song sounds 'awful'. Time to lay off the Jamba Juice..
We're just talking about an effect on the voice, and that "annoying" moment only lasts a couple of seconds. Hence my "the song is still awesome".
Regardless, it's still not something I would describe as 'awful'...
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You know what's badass? Right on the 14 minute mark, when the song pauses, and MM slows down the pace with that drum fill, then BAM back into the groovy 12/8 riff, with the keyboard solo.
Yes. I have said this before in the thread. One of my favorite parts of the song.
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Agreed about that weird effect. It sounds awful.
It may not be to your personal liking, but nothing about the song sounds 'awful'. Time to lay off the Jamba Juice..
We're just talking about an effect on the voice, and that "annoying" moment only lasts a couple of seconds. Hence my "the song is still awesome".
Regardless, it's still not something I would describe as 'awful'...
Well, it's something I would describe as awful. It does sound just like the equally awful effected used in Chaos in Motion. God forbid I have a negative opinion about DT. :\
I still love the song btw.
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(Maybe somebody already has written this) Part of the orchestral section is underneath JP's riff in the beginning of the song. Listen at 10:18 and then start the song from the beginning. The orchestral section is also reprised in some other parts of the song (from the 16 minute and to the end), but it is very subtle.
This is kind of why I put it at the beginning in my edit.
I think the orchestra section would fit more at the beginning of the song, hence the edits.
I've heard the edits, and totally disagree. The problem with the orchestra at the start, is that it simply sounds like an overture. Then the transitions later in the piece, sound a little jarring, and really dont work that well together. With the orchestra in the middle, it breaks things up, progresses into a different beast altogether, and conveys a much bigger sense of going on a journey; that is completely lost when it is at the start. In fact, it was the edited versions that made me appreciate even more, that the song is just fine the way it is and was originally intended..
Yeah, getting Live, Die, Kill to transition nicely to The Pursuit of Truth is really difficult. The original reason why I attempted to edit the song was because I wanted to see how the transition from TEC to TPOT would work as a transition into PDLLN. I just really enjoyed making it to be honest. Is that how I listen to it on a regular basis? No, because I feel that the ambient section gives you some rest between the ridiculously technical instrumental section of Live, Die, Kill and James' amazing vocal work in The Pursuit of Truth. It feels like it's just going on and on for no reason, if you take out the ambient.
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Love the song, but does anyone else think the beginning sounds like some late 70's arena rock (1:30 - 3:-00 or so)? I hear Cozy Powell or Tommy Aldridge playing the drum part. I love it!
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Love the song, but does anyone else think the beginning sounds like some late 70's arena rock (1:30 - 3:-00 or so)? I hear Cozy Powell or Tommy Aldridge playing the drum part. I love it!
Rainbow On Stage - Kill the King, yep.
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Love the song, but does anyone else think the beginning sounds like some late 70's arena rock (1:30 - 3:-00 or so)? I hear Cozy Powell or Tommy Aldridge playing the drum part. I love it!
Rainbow On Stage - Kill the King, yep.
LOL exactly! I just watched that the other day live from 1980 with Graham Bonnet, my favorite Rainbow singer BTW. I love that arena rock vibe.
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Any post with a Cozy Powell reference on DTF is all win! Especially on the DT side.
That part is one of my favorites on the album.
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This song represents every potentially legitimate reason to dislike Dream Theater.
I love Dream Theater, but if I'd only heard this song, I would assume they are indeed all the things those critical of the band say they are. I'd rather loop the 39-minute lovechild of Status Seeker and The Dark Eternal Night at reference volume with an ear infection. Truly awful.
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This song represents every potentially legitimate reason to dislike Dream Theater.
I love Dream Theater, but if I'd only heard this song, I would assume they are indeed all the things those critical of the band say they are. I'd rather loop the 39-minute lovechild of Status Seeker and The Dark Eternal Night at reference volume with an ear infection. Truly awful.
wtf
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This song represents every potentially legitimate reason to dislike Dream Theater.
I love Dream Theater, but if I'd only heard this song, I would assume they are indeed all the things those critical of the band say they are. I'd rather loop the 39-minute lovechild of Status Seeker and The Dark Eternal Night at reference volume with an ear infection. Truly awful.
You might want to familiarize yourself with the rules. Because just outright bashing DT is against the rules.
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This song represents every potentially legitimate reason to dislike Dream Theater.
I love Dream Theater, but if I'd only heard this song, I would assume they are indeed all the things those critical of the band say they are. I'd rather loop the 39-minute lovechild of Status Seeker and The Dark Eternal Night at reference volume with an ear infection. Truly awful.
Please, tell us more. :corn
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This song represents every potentially legitimate reason to dislike Dream Theater.
I love Dream Theater, but if I'd only heard this song, I would assume they are indeed all the things those critical of the band say they are. I'd rather loop the 39-minute lovechild of Status Seeker and The Dark Eternal Night at reference volume with an ear infection. Truly awful.
You might want to familiarize yourself with the rules. Because just outright bashing DT is against the rules.
How am I bashing the band? Because I think they wrote and recorded one awful song, I'm bashing the band? All of my favorite bands have at least one awful song. I'd consider only a few in a career spanning more than 20 years to be an excellent record. My point is I'd hate for someone to try to win over a hater with this particular track because I can think of no worse example of what the band is really about and no better example of all the common negative generalizations about prog.
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This song represents every potentially legitimate reason to dislike Dream Theater.
I love Dream Theater, but if I'd only heard this song, I would assume they are indeed all the things those critical of the band say they are. I'd rather loop the 39-minute lovechild of Status Seeker and The Dark Eternal Night at reference volume with an ear infection. Truly awful.
Worst. Opinion. Ever.
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Now now, guys...for every popularly well-received songs, there's at LEAST one person who dislikes/hates it. Conversely, for every song that isn't so well-received, there's at LEAST one person who enjoys it. Yes, I am sure there's one person out there who enjoys "You Not Me" (I mean the album version, not the better "You Or Me" version from the Hollow Years single).
However, expressing said opinions can be done in a tactful and reasonable manner, with full explanations as to why said song isn't like, and without discrediting the band or members themselves. Remember, if a song that is so well loved isn't something YOU like, chances are the song didn't do anything wrong, it's just YOU that doesn't like it. And if YOU don't like, it YOU don't have to listen to it, right? No one holds guns to our heads and forces us to listen to every new DT album, every song, every time, straight-through with no stopping. In the age of digital music, we can edit songs, take tracks out, etc. etc. to make our own playlists and CD-rs of music that WE like. We're all entitled to our OWN personal mixes and opinions, but let's be nice about it, to each other, to the band and its members, and really, to everyone involved. We're all here to enjoy Dream Theater music, and I'm sure Dream Theater want us to enjoy it too! :tup
-Marc.
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However, expressing said opinions can be done in a tactful and reasonable manner, with full explanations as to why said song isn't like, and without discrediting the band or members themselves. Remember, if a song that is so well loved isn't something YOU like, chances are the song didn't do anything wrong, it's just YOU that doesn't like it. And if YOU don't like, it YOU don't have to listen to it, right? No one holds guns to our heads and forces us to listen to every new DT album, every song, every time, straight-through with no stopping. In the age of digital music, we can edit songs, take tracks out, etc. etc. to make our own playlists and CD-rs of music that WE like. We're all entitled to our OWN personal mixes and opinions, but let's be nice about it, to each other, to the band and its members, and really, to everyone involved. We're all here to enjoy Dream Theater music, and I'm sure Dream Theater want us to enjoy it too! :tup
Right, and I certainly haven't attacked the band or attempted to discredit the band or its members. I'll expand on what I said before because you've been reasonable in your response rather than becoming defensive and sheepishly pointing to forum rules that have not been violated.
Try to think of the criticisms you hear thrown at DT from casual listeners. Songs are too long, songs are disjointed, lyrics are cheesy/shallow/hyper-dramatic, there's artificial "epicness" for epic's sake, there's out of place wank... I think all of those except "out of place wank" apply to this particular song, and I would hate if someone who has heard mixed things about Dream Theater yet finally decides to give them a try happens to listen to Illumination Theory instead of A Change of Seasons when sampling longer tracks.
... I mean, the orchestral section in the middle just for the hell of it? Are you fucking kidding me?
Anyway, proceed to go back to appreciating the song. To be honest I'm surprised no one is with me on this yet as when the album began streaming pre-release quite a few people regarded the song as a disjointed mess. Perhaps many have warmed up to it--I'm afraid I haven't.
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Anyway, proceed to go back to appreciating the song. To be honest I'm surprised no one is with me on this yet as when the album began streaming pre-release quite a few people regarded the song as a disjointed mess. Perhaps many have warmed up to it--I'm afraid I haven't.
It could just be that fans (die-hard or otherwise) are viewing the album with rose-colored glasses, or they are just enjoying their "Honeymoon Phase" of the album, and it will likely die off in a few weeks/months, possibly before the tour begins. However, by then, with live versions of the songs hitting the internet, and fan reactions to them on the tour, love for the material, especially this song, may reignite among fans.
On the other hand, casual fans who might go see DT on their upcoming tour next year may hear/see "Illumination Theory" live and have their minds changed about it. I've read stories of fans who have been indifferent towards certain songs of a band but after seeing them live, it was like a religious experience - an awakening happens within them that allows them to see/hear/feel the magic of a song that was otherwise lost on them with the studio recording.
If you happen to see them next year and they play this song, give it a chance because...well, why not? You'd have paid for a ticket for a full show, might as well enjoy every second of it, right? Use the drum solo for your bathroom break anyway :lol (JK Mike Mangini!!!)
-Marc.
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Anyway, proceed to go back to appreciating the song. To be honest I'm surprised no one is with me on this yet as when the album began streaming pre-release quite a few people regarded the song as a disjointed mess. Perhaps many have warmed up to it--I'm afraid I haven't.
It could just be that fans (die-hard or otherwise) are viewing the album with rose-colored glasses, or they are just enjoying their "Honeymoon Phase" of the album, and it will likely die off in a few weeks/months, possibly before the tour begins. However, by then, with live versions of the songs hitting the internet, and fan reactions to them on the tour, love for the material, especially this song, may reignite among fans.
On the other hand, casual fans who might go see DT on their upcoming tour next year may hear/see "Illumination Theory" live and have their minds changed about it. I've read stories of fans who have been indifferent towards certain songs of a band but after seeing them live, it was like a religious experience - an awakening happens within them that allows them to see/hear/feel the magic of a song that was otherwise lost on them with the studio recording.
If you happen to see them next year and they play this song, give it a chance because...well, why not? You'd have paid for a ticket for a full show, might as well enjoy every second of it, right? Use the drum solo for your bathroom break anyway :lol (JK Mike Mangini!!!)
-Marc.
After listening to this album this much, I can safely say that the supposed "Honeymoon Phase" is over for me.
That being said, I still love the album, and I still love the song.
Orchestra for the hell of it? No. Jordan Rudess wanting to break up the song a bit? In my opinion, very much so. Disjointed? Yeah, but listen to any symphony by any composer and tell me that the movements aren't disjointed. I still dislike A Change of Seasons, except for the one part of Carpe Diem at 8:47. Lots of movements that, in my opinion, are underdeveloped. Compare to The Carnival of the Animals by Camille Saint-Saens, except for some reason I like the latter much more.
A single, unaccompanied orchestra was something they hadn't done before, and they thought it would work, so they put it in. Something new. Isn't that what everyone wants DT to be doing? New things? The same reason I love the ambient section, though I'm a sucker for ambient anyways.
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I don't have a problem with anyone loving this song. We're likely primarily fans of different generations as A Change of Seasons is my favorite DT song, and possibly my favorite song by anyone. You're right, the orchestral section was definitely what Jordan Rudess wanted to do. That's often the problem with DT epics of this century. I can say that without being critical of Jordan's role and contributions as a whole as ADToE and SFAM are top 5 DT albums in my book. When he's been given license to fill time, the results haven't sat well with me, and this song had a lot of time to fill. That said, the Easter egg is my favorite part.
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I don't have a problem with anyone loving this song. We're likely primarily fans of different generations as A Change of Seasons is my favorite DT song, and possibly my favorite song by anyone. You're right, the orchestral section was definitely what Jordan Rudess wanted to do. That's often the problem with DT epics of this century. I can say that without being critical of Jordan's role and contributions as a whole as ADToE and SFAM are top 5 DT albums in my book. When he's been given license to fill time, the results haven't sat well with me, and this song had a lot of time to fill. That said, the Easter egg is my favorite part.
See, this is a perfectly reasonable statement.
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I don't have a problem with anyone loving this song. We're likely primarily fans of different generations as A Change of Seasons is my favorite DT song, and possibly my favorite song by anyone. You're right, the orchestral section was definitely what Jordan Rudess wanted to do. That's often the problem with DT epics of this century. I can say that without being critical of Jordan's role and contributions as a whole as ADToE and SFAM are top 5 DT albums in my book. When he's been given license to fill time, the results haven't sat well with me, and this song had a lot of time to fill. That said, the Easter egg is my favorite part.
See, this is a perfectly reasonable statement.
As were my other posts in this thread. Surely "worse than the lovechild of Status Seeker and TDEN" isn't below the belt. I mean, who doesn't love Status Seeker?
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I don't have a problem with anyone loving this song. We're likely primarily fans of different generations as A Change of Seasons is my favorite DT song, and possibly my favorite song by anyone. You're right, the orchestral section was definitely what Jordan Rudess wanted to do. That's often the problem with DT epics of this century. I can say that without being critical of Jordan's role and contributions as a whole as ADToE and SFAM are top 5 DT albums in my book. When he's been given license to fill time, the results haven't sat well with me, and this song had a lot of time to fill. That said, the Easter egg is my favorite part.
See, this is a perfectly reasonable statement.
As were my other posts in this thread. Surely "worse than the lovechild of Status Seeker and TDEN" isn't below the belt. I mean, who doesn't love Status Seeker?
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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The things you listed as things that casual listeners call negatives are actually just real characteristics of the band.
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Anyway, proceed to go back to appreciating the song. To be honest I'm surprised no one is with me on this yet as when the album began streaming pre-release quite a few people regarded the song as a disjointed mess. Perhaps many have warmed up to it--I'm afraid I haven't.
I don't dislike the song, but I find it very disjointed as well. Another problem I have is that IT is such a stereotypical epic that recycles elements of older DT epics - the intro reminds me of Six Degrees Overture and the last part tries to be the new Razor's Edge. In some intie JP said they wrote this song with the "let's make an epic" approach and that may explain the disjointed feel. Or well, I don't know, somehow the song has this forced and unnatural vibe :dunno:
I've stayed out of this topic because it's an appreciation thread and I haven't wanted to be a party pooper. Seeing all these positive comments actually makes me wish I could love IT and I'm sad it doesn't do anything to me. There are a few good parts and I love the Easter Egg, but the full song fails to impress me. That said, I'd rather listen to it than the lovechild of Status Seeker and TDEN :lol
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You can go on with your lives. This song is still amazing.
:hat
Also, just have to quote myself about the "disjointed thing".
Guys... we're talking about Suites. DT Epics are always Suites. It's in the definition itself of a Suite to have several movements, each one different from one other, each one with its own features and pace. Also, do you really want to focus on transitions from one movement to another being too abrupt? Well look, have you ever heard the Nutcracker Suite (speaking of Čajkovskij...)? I think you definitely did. Then, how does the Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy transition into the Russian Dance? Try and give it a spin, and you'll find out what I mean.
A Suite is conceived to be looked at as a bigger picture (pun not sure if not intended), and appreciated as such: an eclectic composition of several musical stanzas each one focused on a different theme/mood/emotion.
Moreover, the Suite was originally meant to accompany a set of dances. The classical suite structure is as follows: Allemande - Courante - Sarabande - Gigue. Even just focusing on this, I will highlight the fact that a Sarabande is a slow and majestic spanish dance in 3/4, while Gigue is a lively, fast pace dance with a meter of 6/8 (the Irish will know what I'm talking about).
So this great fuss, to me, really is much ado about nothing.
Edit:
In some intie JP said they wrote this song with the "let's make an epic" approach and that may explain the disjointed feel. Or well, I don't know, somehow the song has this forced and unnatural vibe :dunno:
They said that, when they were writing the songs, one of the first happened to have this strong epic vibe, and so they thought that that one had to be a true epic to be fully developed. This is what I personally remember.
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Haven´t you guys noticed anything sounding off-place in one of the guitar solos?
Listen closely: time 6:40-45.
I think JP might have hit a wrong note.
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Haven´t you guys noticed anything sounding off-place in one of the guitar solos?
Listen closely: time 6:40-45.
I think JP might have hit a wrong note.
Sounds completely fine to me.
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I had the album playing for my first listen the other day, whilst doing some some stuff in the kitchen. It was good, but then at around the 2.25 mark in IT the little double bass drum pedal hit just hit me and I thought..... it's on. It's the little things.
And yes this post was worth signing up for!
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At first I felt like it was disjointed with each section awesome by itself. But the more I've listened to it, the entire song is really starting to feel alive for me and flows well. sad every time the song comes to an end.
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The illumination theory (also known as the paradox of the black light):
You can't be happy unless you've been sad. (until you struggle through the dark you'll never know that you're alive)
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The illumination theory (also known as the paradox of the black light):
You can't be happy unless you've been sad. (until you struggle through the dark you'll never know that you're alive)
There is also a scientific explanation for it actually, something to do with the cosmos, haha. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olbers'_paradox
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This song has a lot of influences from all their Epics.
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I just listened to this and Octavarium back to back three times. I really can not see how somebody can say Octavarium is musically better than this epic. Specially the drumming. Mangini in IT eats alive Portnoy in Octavarium.
One feels a sense of disjointedness in the song if it is not listened in its entirety. However, I made a conscious effort to listen to the song in its entirety always, which is why I definitely felt the flow through the different parts.
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I just listened to this and Octavarium back to back three times. I really can not see how somebody can say Octavarium is musically better than this epic. Specially the drumming. Mangini in IT eats alive Portnoy in Octavarium.
I think Octavarium is easily better. So much more cohesive, with more payoff with the variations of the main themes of the song, and it's the first DT orchestral epic, with the ultimate epic outro.
IT's outro falls completely flat to me, and feels too cliche, even using elements directly out of Octavarium and SDOIT.
And Portnoy's drumming in Octavarium is great. It knows when to just let the rest of the music breathe, and adds subtle touches to spice it up when necessary.
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I think Octavarium is easily better. So much more cohesive, with more payoff with the variations of the main themes of the song, and it's the first DT orchestral epic, with the ultimate epic outro.
IT's outro falls completely flat to me, and feels too cliche, even using elements directly out of Octavarium and SDOIT.
Octavarium feels "so much more cohesive" because the message of the song is about a full circle. Illumination Theory is about transitioning from a moment of questioning and confusion to a moment of enlightenment, of illumination. That is why there are sharp breaks in between the parts but still manages to harken back to previous themes.
Octavarium, while great, actually has a problematic outro. It sounds great, it sounds uplifting, but I always wonder what exactly happened in the course of the song which would lead to an uplifting ending? is it supposed to be a realization that one has just to accept that one just comes full circle and one is trapped in an Octavarium?
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I think Octavarium is easily better. So much more cohesive, with more payoff with the variations of the main themes of the song, and it's the first DT orchestral epic, with the ultimate epic outro.
IT's outro falls completely flat to me, and feels too cliche, even using elements directly out of Octavarium and SDOIT.
Octavarium feels "so much more cohesive" because the message of the song is about a full circle. Illumination Theory is about transitioning from a moment of questioning and confusion to a moment of enlightenment, of illumination. That is why there are sharp breaks in between the parts but still manages to harken back to previous themes.
Octavarium, while great, actually has a problematic outro. It sounds great, it sounds uplifting, but I always wonder what exactly happened in the course of the song which would lead to an uplifting ending? is it supposed to be a realization that one has just to accept that one just comes full circle and one is trapped in an Octavarium?
The beauty of Octavarium's outro is that it's not overly uplifting, or depressing. The guitar solo starts in a pretty dark minor sound, then uses a lot of eery chromatics, to put it off sounding either major or minor in tonality, and weaves between sounding dark and light seamlessly, with some parts being dark, and some parts being very bright.
Here's the best bit - analyze Octavarium's main theme reprise that closes off the song. Each bar actually alternates major and minor key tonality. The first bar has the descending run with the major third, then the next bar is the same run but with the minor third instead, then back to the major key variation, then it finishes with the ascending run in minor.
It fits perfectly with the circular theme of the song, with the cycle repeating, having both positive and negative connotations, but really being neither inherently, because it's such a general theme.
Then it repeats the intro drone of the album to reinforce the cycle repeating (and it actually repeats several cycles in the process, but that's for a deeper analysis), and it's only the root note, devoid of tonality.
The more I analyze Octavarium, the more I appreciate it. It's a song that holds up and only gets better with age imo.
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I'd love to know how long it took from coming up with the initial ideas for the Octavarium album to being done writing.
• The theme of 8 - 8th album.
• The theme of an octave ( 8 )
• The repeating theme ∞ ( or infinity - an 8 on it's side )
• Having the album based around the key of F with each of the 8 songs in ascending diatonic keys.
• Having non diatonic notes as segues.
• Ending the album as it starts this being the 5th and final album in the meta-album series ( 5 and 8 again ).
i don't imagine this was all worked out in a weekend over coffee in Starbucks.
it's probably the most thought out non-concept album ever :lol
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It was only the 4th album in the "meta-album" progression, but that would have been convenient. :lol
I think I really need to start a thread for my analysis of that song. The deeper I look into it, the more I like it.
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IT's outro falls completely flat to me, and feels too cliche, even using elements directly out of Octavarium and SDOIT.
This definitely. After the last instrumental section of IT, i just skip ahead to the next song. I can't stand JLB's voice at the end. :/
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IT's outro falls completely flat to me, and feels too cliche, even using elements directly out of Octavarium and SDOIT.
This definitely. After the last instrumental section of IT, i just skip ahead to the next song. I can't stand JLB's voice at the end. :/
What next song? :p
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Oh...I supposed you're right. :lol Sometimes, I'll just skip ahead to that beautiful Easter egg.
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The beauty of Octavarium's outro is that it's not overly uplifting, or depressing. The guitar solo starts in a pretty dark minor sound, then uses a lot of eery chromatics, to put it off sounding either major or minor in tonality, and weaves between sounding dark and light seamlessly, with some parts being dark, and some parts being very bright.
Here's the best bit - analyze Octavarium's main theme reprise that closes off the song. Each bar actually alternates major and minor key tonality. The first bar has the descending run with the major third, then the next bar is the same run but with the minor third instead, then back to the major key variation, then it finishes with the ascending run in minor.
It fits perfectly with the circular theme of the song, with the cycle repeating, having both positive and negative connotations, but really being neither inherently, because it's such a general theme.
Then it repeats the intro drone of the album to reinforce the cycle repeating (and it actually repeats several cycles in the process, but that's for a deeper analysis), and it's only the root note, devoid of tonality.
Oh, I know that. I just find the transition from Intervals to Razor's Edge to be more jarring than any of the transitions being criticized in IT. For a supposedly "cyclical" movement, the transition there is just too sudden. A very dark repetitive "Trapped in an Octavarium" line and then suddenly an uplifting outro. Sure there are those some minors to tone down the uplifting sound, as you say, but still a very jarring transition coming from.
IT is entitled to be overly uplifting in its outro. It talks about Illumination and enlightenment after all.
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Just jumping in to say that the idea that the drumming in IT is better than OV makes me laugh until my ribs hurt. And I love IT.
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After hearing IT considerably now, I can honestly say I prefer it to Octavarium. I really like how 8V is put together, and it has some terrific parts, but it just takes far too long to get going IMO. IT is just brilliant all the way through for me, particularly when taken in context of the songs overall message..
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Just jumping in to say that the idea that the drumming in IT is better than OV makes me laugh until my ribs hurt. And I love IT.
???
It doesn't make the song better on its own, but Mangini's drumming is beastly in Illumination Theory. Portnoy has a lot of great drum songs and tons of fun fills to air drum, but Octavarium would not be high on either of those lists for me. I love Octavarium, but I never listen to it and think, "The drumming in this song is so bad ass."
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Can't say I particularly enjoy the musical themes like ACOS, nor can I say that it's coherent with brilliant reprisal and variation, like Octavarium. It just feels like it was done with the "We had an extra 20:00 on the disc and some musical ideas, so what the fuck" mentality.
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Can't say I particularly enjoy the musical themes like ACOS, nor can I say that it's coherent with brilliant reprisal and variation, like Octavarium. It just feels like it was done with the "We had an extra 20:00 on the disc and some musical ideas, so what the fuck" mentality.
Except they actually had closer to 30:00 left on the disc, so it wouldn't have made sense to write a song for the purpose of filling the disc, and not filling it. :P (In jest of course, your opinion is valid. I just don't agree)
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Honestly, IT hasn't aged very well for me. I rarely seem to listen to it these days, because if I'm going to listen to a 20 minute song, it might as well be 8VM or TCOT, both of which I think are far better.
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I listened to the new album a lot over the last weekend.
Illumination Theory has really grown on me. I love the beginning and 6:00-7:00 might be one of my favorite single minutes of DT music so far.
BUT.. I still cannot get past the string section. I just sucks the life out of the song. Oddly, I love TCOT and could never understand why people didn't like the Swell section. I thought it was perfect. But I do not think fits here.
And it feels like it still lacks the epic finish. I feel like James was not recorded or mixed properly for that section. Lacks the emotion that I know James can convey.
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Driving in car when listening to it for the second time, and I really had to control myself to behave safely. DT, stop making me a danger on the road.
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Driving in car when listening to it for the second time, and I really had to control myself to behave safely. DT, stop making me a danger on the road.
Let me guess the time stamp...3:30 - 6:55? That's some dangerous driving music right there!
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Let me guess the time stamp...3:30 - 6:55? That's some dangerous driving music right there!
Spot on! :biggrin:
And I love this part: "The bridges we build to connect, the distance that makes us forget (...)"
And the piano part at 4:38, sigh.
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Honestly, IT hasn't aged very well for me. I rarely seem to listen to it these days, because if I'm going to listen to a 20 minute song, it might as well be 8VM or TCOT, both of which I think are far better.
I have to agree with you. It definitely hasn't aged well with me either. If i decide to listen some DT12- stuff, i probably spin STR or TBP.
If i decide to listen a 20+ min song from DT, i might as well spin ACOS, Octavarium or ITPOE.
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Let me guess the time stamp...3:30 - 6:55? That's some dangerous driving music right there!
Spot on! :biggrin:
And I love this part: "The bridges we build to connect, the distance that makes us forget (...)"
And the piano part at 4:38, sigh.
Yea, those unexpected rhythms and vocals make it really memorable. Good call!
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Seriously,Am I the only one thinks that surrender,trust & passion is one of the most emotional and uplifting moments in DT history,I mean everybody seems to hate it
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Let me guess the time stamp...3:30 - 6:55? That's some dangerous driving music right there!
Spot on! :biggrin:
And I love this part: "The bridges we build to connect, the distance that makes us forget (...)"
And the piano part at 4:38, sigh.
Yea, those unexpected rhythms and vocals make it really memorable. Good call!
My favorite part of the song, by far. :tup
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It was only the 4th album in the "meta-album" progression, but that would have been convenient. :lol
I think I really need to start a thread for my analysis of that song. The deeper I look into it, the more I like it.
Oooh yeah . I meant it was the final album which began with their 5th album and ended with Octavarium ( the 8th ).
:)
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Seriously,Am I the only one thinks that surrender,trust & passion is one of the most emotional and uplifting moments in DT history,I mean everybody seems to hate it
I'm with you.
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Seriously,Am I the only one thinks that surrender,trust & passion is one of the most emotional and uplifting moments in DT history,I mean everybody seems to hate it
Not at all, I absolutely adore it.
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It's a wonderful part. Hopefully many, like me, who loved that part to bits have stayed silent about it so far for whatever reason.
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Best ending in years, Imo.
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Seriously,Am I the only one thinks that surrender,trust & passion is one of the most emotional and uplifting moments in DT history,I mean everybody seems to hate it
Who hates it?
It could be DT's best moment. Definitely one of James best vocal moments. I listened to it again and it still gives me goosebumps.
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Have we confirmed through speculation (lol) that the elongated section of sound effects was purely written into the song to give enough time for the guest musicians to set up the strings in a live setting?
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Have we confirmed through speculation (lol) that the elongated section of sound effects was purely written into the song to give enough time for the guest musicians to set up the strings in a live setting?
No, but that's a great (illumination) theory!
I'm not sure that's really something they're considering while writing a song, but either way it would work well for that.
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I like IT. Furthermore, I think it's the best song of DT12. However, it's overly long for the real content it has. The outro, could easily be another song called "Jordan Rudess Outro for Concert endings". The ambiance part is another waste of time, it reprises Tuscany's idea, the orchestra is a nice touch but yet again I'm feel trapped in the idea of Six Degrees of Classical Music.
Unfortunately, in addition, due to the fact Mangini drum mix come from the 80's I believe that without a decent live version of IT, I'll lose my interest of coming back in the long run.
Octavarium, ACOS and TCOT are probably better.
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Have we confirmed through speculation (lol) that the elongated section of sound effects was purely written into the song to give enough time for the guest musicians to set up the strings in a live setting?
No, but that's a great (illumination) theory!
I'm not sure that's really something they're considering while writing a song, but either way it would work well for that.
Haha, nicely done, you. The sound effects are purely atmospheric and don't add anything musical to the piece, so they were certainly deliberating something when they made that section 2 minutes long. Overkill? Ten seconds would have sufficed as a meditative intro to the string section, so I can only assume they structured the song purposely to work with a live stage change.
I doubt the were trying to increase the song's length to keep up with their other epics.
Of course, the obvious argument against this line of thinking is to say "wouldn't they have enough time in during the intermission to set up the string section." So, I dunno, but I would expect something interesting when we reach this part of the song live.
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Have we confirmed through speculation (lol) that the elongated section of sound effects was purely written into the song to give enough time for the guest musicians to set up the strings in a live setting?
No, but that's a great (illumination) theory!
I'm not sure that's really something they're considering while writing a song, but either way it would work well for that.
Haha, nicely done, you. The sound effects are purely atmospheric and don't add anything musical to the piece, so they were certainly deliberating something when they made that section 2 minutes long. Overkill? Ten seconds would have sufficed as a meditative intro to the string section, so I can only assume they structured the song purposely to work with a live stage change.
I doubt the were trying to increase the song's length to keep up with their other epics.
Of course, the obvious argument against this line of thinking is to say "wouldn't they have enough time in during the intermission to set up the string section." So, I dunno, but I would expect something interesting when we reach this part of the song live.
It is an interesting theory indeed, but I strongly disagree on the fact that 10 seconds would have been enough as a meditative intro. I really like it the way it is, it gives me time to think and soak into the atmosphere. Maybe I'm just slow =D
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I just don't see thepoint in saying if IT or 8vm is better. While long in structure, they are vastly different and emote completely different feelings. Both are pinnacle pieces.
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Haha, nicely done, you. The sound effects are purely atmospheric and don't add anything musical to the piece, so they were certainly deliberating something when they made that section 2 minutes long. Overkill? Ten seconds would have sufficed as a meditative intro to the string section, so I can only assume they structured the song purposely to work with a live stage change.
I doubt the were trying to increase the song's length to keep up with their other epics.
Of course, the obvious argument against this line of thinking is to say "wouldn't they have enough time in during the intermission to set up the string section." So, I dunno, but I would expect something interesting when we reach this part of the song live.
That really is an interesting thought, one that hadn't occurred to me. I believe during one of the recent live YouTube chats (can't remember which one) the DT boys were asked about how they planned to handle the string section when playing it live and they basically avoided answering the question saying they wanted to leave some things a surprise for the fans. So, maybe they are cooking something up!
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The guitar rhythm in Live, Die, Kill really reminds me of Burning My Soul.
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I had tears in my eyes, but wasn't crying yet. With this song, at the 2nd listen though :P In the first listen I heard it with my girlfriend and we both tried to figure out what's going on with the song and we talked all the way through it (and the album), so it was kinda hard to get in the mood. It really, really moved me in the 2nd listen, with my earphones and all.
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Have we confirmed through speculation (lol) that the elongated section of sound effects was purely written into the song to give enough time for the guest musicians to set up the strings in a live setting?
No, but that's a great (illumination) theory!
I'm not sure that's really something they're considering while writing a song, but either way it would work well for that.
Haha, nicely done, you. The sound effects are purely atmospheric and don't add anything musical to the piece, so they were certainly deliberating something when they made that section 2 minutes long. Overkill? Ten seconds would have sufficed as a meditative intro to the string section, so I can only assume they structured the song purposely to work with a live stage change.
I doubt the were trying to increase the song's length to keep up with their other epics.
Of course, the obvious argument against this line of thinking is to say "wouldn't they have enough time in during the intermission to set up the string section." So, I dunno, but I would expect something interesting when we reach this part of the song live.
It is an interesting theory indeed, but I strongly disagree on the fact that 10 seconds would have been enough as a meditative intro. I really like it the way it is, it gives me time to think and soak into the atmosphere. Maybe I'm just slow =D
Also, why would it matter how long they made it on the album? They can make it go on for as long as they want when they perform it live.
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Taking another spin with this track. The more I've listened to it, the better it sounds, especially around 8:40 when the strings come into play and the transition from that into The Pursuit Of Truth was very good.
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They sure do know how to end a song. I'll give 'em that. Overall I think it's bloated and wank-heavy, but the string section part isn't bad and everything from Didacts and Narpets on is golden, and I particularly like the "Growth"-style outro.
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They sure do know how to end a song. I'll give 'em that. Overall I think it's bloated and wank-heavy, but the string section part isn't bad and everything from Didacts and Narpets on is golden, and I particularly like the "Growth"-style outro.
I think you meant to click the Fountain of Lamneth appreciation thread :P
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They sure do know how to end a song. I'll give 'em that. Overall I think it's bloated and wank-heavy, but the string section part isn't bad and everything from Didacts and Narpets on is golden, and I particularly like the "Growth"-style outro.
I think you meant to click the Fountain of Lamneth appreciation thread :P
Oh, actually I was looking for the Women and Children first thread; my bad.
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Sail away with Neil Peart...........
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Damn this 15 year old kid did pretty damn good! Small mistakes here and there, but really that was pretty awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU
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Damn this 15 year old kid did pretty damn good! Small mistakes here and there, but really that was pretty awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU
Oh yeah I love that cover
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That piano with the heavy riff at about 4:30-5:00 is just heavenly.
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I am listening to this song now, and I just can't express how much I am moved by the music and the words. I loved it from the first spin, and for this reason I couldn't predict it was going to grow on me so much as it did.
Some weeks ago a friend of mine asked me if I had some music to suggest, and I found out he didn't know about DT. I told him to listen to Illumination Theory. He called me the following day and kept me at the phone about an hour talking about the song. He was just blown away. Now I've decided that IT will be for me the new track to use to introduce new folks to DT. And it's the first time that I choose a song that is not from the 90s.
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One of my absolute favorite DT songs. Virtually perfect. Every part is special in some way. The last section is just so epic and beautiful and uplifting and emotional.
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One of my absolute favorite DT songs. Virtually perfect. Every part is special in some way. The last section is just so epic and beautiful and uplifting and emotional.
So, the ratings in your signature are related to the corresponding songs of DT12? Or do you happen to rate your ex girlfriends the same way I rate those songs? :D
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absolutely love this song now. Tough to pick out a fav part - maybe from 6.00 to 7.00. That might be one of my fav DT sections ever.
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This song has certainly grown on me, but it's still toward the bottom of 14+ minute songs for me.
In particular, I enjoy Live, Die Kill. I like the odd rhythms in the bridges section, and the fact that the organ patch reminds me of Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door. The Rudess solo afterward reminds me of a fast-paced drunk playing a medieval theme. This sounds like harsh bashing, but I totally dig the solo.
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So, the ratings in your signature are related to the corresponding songs of DT12? Or do you happen to rate your ex girlfriends the same way I rate those songs? :D
Yes.
the organ patch reminds me of Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door.
Yes!
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I've been REALLY trying to digest this song and come to love it. It's just not happening though. I like it, but it doesn't grab hold of me like ACOS or some of the other epics do.
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This song could be my new fav DT song, it could possibly be the best thing they have ever done.
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The jet engines at the end of the orchestra made me jump awake from my sleep.
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With Illumination Theory now played live for quite a number of times, I could definitely say now that this is a real masterpiece. Such an awesome song in a live setting. No "incoherence' whatsoever.
Best recording I found so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTEREgVgxAU
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James gets better and better at this song every night. It's pretty amazing what he has been capable of so far.
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It's probably my favorite song of theirs since Train of Thought and allows me to hold on to some very small glimmer of hope that they can still write shit on par with their SDOIT-and-earlier material. Although I get virtually zero enjoyment from the mellow last five minutes or so, I'll gladly take it that way since it'd suck if the part I didn't like involved having to fast forward through it due to it being in the midst of parts I like (as in the tedious middle part of TCOT) or at the beginning (8VM as well as numerous other parts of that song that don't quite paint my toenails pink.)
Best of all, it's the closest I've come to liking JLB's vocals since Awake. He has some nice grit here and there.
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I had my first listen to it in a while today too ....................loved it even more after a break from DT 12 overload. There's been a discussion lately on whether DT "grooves" or not and , although I'm no rhythm/groove expert , to me it grooves like a mutha.
Great track.
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Yep. I don't know if somebody can still say with a straight face that TCOT is better than this.
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TCOT is more than 30 times better than IT. That's probably an understatement.
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I like IT a lot. I probably like it better than TCOT but TCOT just flows very nicely musically. I remember the first time I listened to TCOT, it didn't even feel like a 19 minute song.
I like all the music on IT but the flow just isn't as smooth as the TCOT IMO
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I like IT a lot. I probably like it better than TCOT but TCOT just flows very nicely musically. I remember the first time I listened to TCOT, it didn't even feel like a 19 minute song.
I like all the music on IT but the flow just isn't as smooth as the TCOT IMO
I really can not get this "usual" comment. I mean, if we are not listening to DT, I can get why people would expect really smooth transitions but the musical breaks seem normal to me in the context of DT. It is not any different from the transitions in songs like Scarred, Breaking All Illusions, etc. There are actually musical continuities within the song, like the melody of the slow intro reappearing in the orchestral section, and the groovy riff in Paradoxe de la Lumière Noire reappearing in the end part of The Pursuit of Truth.
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No intention to make it another "Battle of the songs thread" but i find both songs on the same level.
While IT is more consistent, TCOT has more magical moments but also worse parts. 2 totally different songs, with the stracture that is similar.
gotta say that for me it took more time for IT to grow on me wheres TCOT needed only 1 listen to know its wow.
Everytime i hear the orchestral part in the middle ( IT) i kind of picture myself the last scene that ends "Lost". i dont wanna spoil it for those who haven't seen it yet but the "Lost" fan will know what i mean. I think this section could matched perfectly for the finale episode soundtrack :hat
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They were dead the whole time.
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I like IT a lot. I probably like it better than TCOT but TCOT just flows very nicely musically. I remember the first time I listened to TCOT, it didn't even feel like a 19 minute song.
I like all the music on IT but the flow just isn't as smooth as the TCOT IMO
I really can not get this "usual" comment. I mean, if we are not listening to DT, I can get why people would expect really smooth transitions but the musical breaks seem normal to me in the context of DT. It is not any different from the transitions in songs like Scarred, Breaking All Illusions, etc. There are actually musical continuities within the song, like the melody of the slow intro reappearing in the orchestral section, and the groovy riff in Paradoxe de la Lumière Noire reappearing in the end part of The Pursuit of Truth.
Yeah don't get me wrong... IT is still awesome and I understand all the musical themes that are going on in the song. I think the orchestral section is beautiful too.
I always thought it would have been awesome starting the song off with the orchestra section and then kicking into the intro/main riff... However, then I understand that it would just feel like Octavarium Part II.
There are a lot of transitions in DT songs but I think they worked better in songs like Breaking All Illusions, Octavarium, Outcry, A Change of Seasons and even in The Ministry of Lost Souls(I know I might be in the minority on that one).
I don't want this turning into a song battle either but overall there are parts that I like a lot in both TCOT and IT.
TCOT intro and outro is just amazing.
IT works better lyrically and "The Pursuit of Truth" is awesome.
Having said all that, IT is still a 9/10 :metal
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Disliking a progressive song for being largely incohesive is like dumping a girl cause her boobs were too big.
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Disliking a progressive song for being largely incohesive is like dumping a girl cause her boobs were too big.
I think I made it clear that I liked the song when I said 9/10 :)
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Disliking a progressive song for being largely incohesive is like dumping a girl cause her boobs were too big.
No, it's more like disliking a song because it's incohesive. "Progressive" doesn't mean "just throw everything in and it's a song", the ideas still have to flow naturally.
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@Mosis: Yeah, it wasn't directed to you. It was just some sort of sudden manifestation that I had.
@Ninja: Uhm... so... no humor allowed outside the green zone I guess?
There is some sort of truth in IT, although. At least a pursuit.
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@Mosis: Yeah, it wasn't directed to you. It was just some sort of sudden manifestation that I had.
@Ninja: Uhm... so... no humor allowed outside the green zone I guess?
There is some sort of truth in IT, although. At least a pursuit.
Not unless you consult me first.
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I was stunned by the song when i first downloaded the album. But at my 2nd listen, i felt something "lost". Fortunately, i soon found out that the song gets better with every listening. You hear a new note, a new word or some melody that makes you feel the "thing" in the song. Now, it's closing up to the best song for me, 8VM. Maybe one day IT will make me feel better? Until then, i can only embrace the beauty of the song and thank to every single person who worked on making this song...
With Illumination Theory now played live for quite a number of times, I could definitely say now that this is a real masterpiece. Such an awesome song in a live setting. No "incoherence' whatsoever.
Best recording I found so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTEREgVgxAU
Hey, i posted the vid of Roma in it's thread, go see that too. I think that was kinda better than this, the scream was way more controlled.
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I was stunned by the song when i first downloaded the album. But at my 2nd listen, i felt something "lost". Fortunately, i soon found out that the song gets better with every listening. You hear a new note, a new word or some melody that makes you feel the "thing" in the song. Now, it's closing up to the best song for me, 8VM. Maybe one day IT will make me feel better? Until then, i can only embrace the beauty of the song and thank to every single person who worked on making this song...
With Illumination Theory now played live for quite a number of times, I could definitely say now that this is a real masterpiece. Such an awesome song in a live setting. No "incoherence' whatsoever.
Best recording I found so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTEREgVgxAU
Hey, i posted the vid of Roma in it's thread, go see that too. I think that was kinda better than this, the scream was way more controlled.
Saw that one also. I think the one at Geox is better only because the vid captured the lower registers better. I can hear the bass drum and the bass guitar! Hehehe
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hey guys, whats your idea about the piano+guitar part of 04:40 to 04:56?
it's the favourite part of the song for me. so great.
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Great little section of the song. I love how the instruments just compliment each other.
But for me there's tons of other more outstanding moments. For example, that entire section from about 6:01 to 6:55 is just godly.
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Great little section of the song. I love how the instruments just compliment each other.
But for me there's tons of other more outstanding moments. For example, that entire section from about 6:01 to 6:55 is just godly.
agreed, that section is amazing! one more for me is 15:17 to 15:52 - the keys in this section are amazing.
I grown to truely love this song now. One of my fav ever DT songs. :hefdaddy
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Great little section of the song. I love how the instruments just compliment each other.
But for me there's tons of other more outstanding moments. For example, that entire section from about 6:01 to 6:55 is just godly.
oh yea! amazing melody.
agreed, that section is amazing! one more for me is 15:17 to 15:52 - the keys in this section are amazing.
I grown to truely love this song now. One of my fav ever DT songs. :hefdaddy
and just before that the melodic shredding that JP does right there.....
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This ones pretty damn good!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz3Z767BDOQ
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I've tried and tried to appreciate what they were trying to do with the orchestral section of "Illumination Theory" but I just can't do it. That whole section, from about 7:10 to 11:10 (four minutes) does absolutely nothing to carry the song forward. There's nothing wrong with it in and of itself. It would be fine if they wanted to put something like that at on the album, between songs or something, but just shoehorning it into the middle of an epic serves no purpose. I might feel differently about it if the orchestral section felt musically (melodically, to be more precise) connected to the entire song as a whole, but it shares no common themes nor melodies with the song, at least not by design. The part is just kind of there...then it's....not there and using a reverse swell effect on each side of it doesn't necessarily integrate it into the song in a meaningful way or in a musically interesting way. Reverse swells. Welcome to basic audio engineering and mixing, class 2, maybe 3. It's a ham-fisted approach to production, sorry. It just feels lazy to me. Like they said "oh, we need an orchestral part to this, where do we put it?"
I actually think "Illumination Theory" was created from a couple of song ideas that were melded into one long piece, which is a pretty common and natural evolution. I just think they went off the rails a little bit with this part of the song.
That's really my only big gripe with the album. I "get" the album. I know what they were going for and I think they largely achieved it.
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I enjoy it much in the same light as Dogs, Awaken, Time Flies, Gates of Delerium, etc...long songs with drastically different sections.
And I love that section very much. One of the coolest things DT has ever done IMO.
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This ones pretty damn good!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz3Z767BDOQ
Exactly 2 weeks from now I will be seeing this very thing. Can't wait.
Mangini- makes being awesome look pretty effortless.
That last "You'll never know" always feels like it should go higher and bigger. I anticipate it every time and it just... doesn't.
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This ones pretty damn good!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz3Z767BDOQ
Exactly 2 weeks from now I will be seeing this very thing. Can't wait.
Mangini- makes being awesome look pretty effortless.
That last "You'll never know" always feels like it should go higher and bigger. I anticipate it every time and it just... doesn't.
Do you mean the highest one after the climax has been reached?
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I've tried and tried to appreciate what they were trying to do with the orchestral section of "Illumination Theory" but I just can't do it. That whole section, from about 7:10 to 11:10 (four minutes) does absolutely nothing to carry the song forward. There's nothing wrong with it in and of itself. It would be fine if they wanted to put something like that at on the album, between songs or something, but just shoehorning it into the middle of an epic serves no purpose. I might feel differently about it if the orchestral section felt musically (melodically, to be more precise) connected to the entire song as a whole, but it shares no common themes nor melodies with the song, at least not by design. The part is just kind of there...then it's....not there and using a reverse swell effect on each side of it doesn't necessarily integrate it into the song in a meaningful way or in a musically interesting way. Reverse swells. Welcome to basic audio engineering and mixing, class 2, maybe 3. It's a ham-fisted approach to production, sorry. It just feels lazy to me. Like they said "oh, we need an orchestral part to this, where do we put it?"
I actually think "Illumination Theory" was created from a couple of song ideas that were melded into one long piece, which is a pretty common and natural evolution. I just think they went off the rails a little bit with this part of the song.
That's really my only big gripe with the album. I "get" the album. I know what they were going for and I think they largely achieved it.
+1
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I've tried and tried to appreciate what they were trying to do with the orchestral section of "Illumination Theory" but I just can't do it. That whole section, from about 7:10 to 11:10 (four minutes) does absolutely nothing to carry the song forward. There's nothing wrong with it in and of itself. It would be fine if they wanted to put something like that at on the album, between songs or something, but just shoehorning it into the middle of an epic serves no purpose. I might feel differently about it if the orchestral section felt musically (melodically, to be more precise) connected to the entire song as a whole, but it shares no common themes nor melodies with the song, at least not by design. The part is just kind of there...then it's....not there and using a reverse swell effect on each side of it doesn't necessarily integrate it into the song in a meaningful way or in a musically interesting way. Reverse swells. Welcome to basic audio engineering and mixing, class 2, maybe 3. It's a ham-fisted approach to production, sorry. It just feels lazy to me. Like they said "oh, we need an orchestral part to this, where do we put it?"
I actually think "Illumination Theory" was created from a couple of song ideas that were melded into one long piece, which is a pretty common and natural evolution. I just think they went off the rails a little bit with this part of the song.
That's really my only big gripe with the album. I "get" the album. I know what they were going for and I think they largely achieved it.
+1
No common melodies? How anybody can not hear that the climax of the orchestral part, the alleged Tchaikovskyesque melody, is basically the same as the majestic introduction is really BEYOND me.
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I guess we're just not as smart as you.
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I guess we're just not as smart as you.
Or maybe some people are just not really listening to the melodies before complaining?
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You're right. I should have consulted you first.
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I'm not complaining.
I just don't see the point in the orchestral section.
Music works when the added piece would always have been missing.
The orchestral part doesn't sound like it would be missed if it weren't there.
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I'm not complaining.
I just don't see the point in the orchestral section.
Music works when the added piece would always have been missing.
The orchestral part doesn't sound like it would be missed if it weren't there.
I am reacting to this section of the post you quoted "I might feel differently about it if the orchestral section felt musically (melodically, to be more precise) connected to the entire song as a whole, but it shares no common themes nor melodies with the song, at least not by design."
I can see how others would find the orchestral section unnecessary or not adding anything substantial to the song. However, as I said earlier, I can not see how anybody can say that there are no common melodies between the orchestral section and the other parts because the main orchestral melody is the intro melody.
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I guess we're just not as smart as you.
Actually, he is right. The end of the orchestral section does replicate the melody from the very beginning of the song. Unless I am missing some sort of joke?
This is the official Roadrunner upload: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFMDGSWhHbo
From 10:17 until 10:55 is the exact same melody as the opening of the track.
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I'm just being snarky about the way he phrased it.
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^ I thought it might have been that. Okay, everyone, carry on then :lol
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Even if it does reprise a melody from the beginning of the song that doesn't really change the fact that they just shoved it in there with a couple of reverse swells on either side of it. Lazy.
This coming from a fan who has bought every album, compilation, DVD, etc...a fan who's going to the meet & greet....in other words, a supportive fan of the band. I just don't like that part, don't see the need for it in there and for me, frankly, it kind of ruins that song. I just don't have the patience to sit through 4 minutes of that stuff. Is it a beautiful piece? Yeah, sure. Is it well executed? Yup, well executed. I'm not criticizing the piece itself. Just the way they used it. Doesn't make any sense to me at all.
On 6DOIT it made sense. It was a fairly typical overture for a symphonic collection of songs all tied together by a common lyrical and musical thread. It was in the beginning of the suite, which is the traditional spot for an overture like this. On this album, in this particular instance, I'm just not a fan of how the piece was utilized. It's clumsy and almost feels like a gimmick. It's like an intermission.....hey wait a minute, maybe that's why I always feel like I need to pee when that part comes on. :justjen :P :biggrin:
Hey, again, I'm a huge fan of these guys, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna love every single thing they do. Other than this small gripe, I think it's a solid album.
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Sorry to bother with this, but it just made me cry, I'm serious, i cant tell what happened, i was just listening to it for the first time, and suddenly, tears, melody, instrumentation, sections, lyrics, mix, everything, JL, JP, JMX, MM, JR thanks for such a glorious moment in my life.
Did something similar happen to you guys?
i wanted to say nothing but ^: "thanks for such a glorious moment in my life" :tup
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I still tend to skip the ambient and orchestra part (it is beautiful and nice but kind of kills the pace to me). But the rest of the songs keeps growing to me. It is truly one of the best DT tracks to me. If the orchestra and ambient parts were better incorperated (to me), the song would probably become my favourite epic. But still, this song is awesome and I can't wait to hear it live.
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A glorious orchestra in IT is just better to me than, say, MP roaring "HISTORIAN" and "I" in TCOT. Also a song about humanity just connects with me better than a song about someone being afraid of some rich guy.
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I'm not too keen on the ambient section (I even made an edited version of the song where I cut out almost that whole part), but I do love the orchestral part, as well as the rest of the song - definitely a top 10 track. DT have this habit of pulling out an absolute top tier song when writing an album, even if the rest of the album doesn't do too much for you. That's the case for me with IT and DT12 really.
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A glorious orchestra in IT is just better to me than, say, MP roaring "HISTORIAN" and "I" in TCOT. Also a song about humanity just connects with me better than a song about someone being afraid of some rich guy.
:tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup
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A glorious orchestra in IT is just better to me than, say, MP roaring "HISTORIAN" and "I" in TCOT. Also a song about humanity just connects with me better than a song about someone being afraid of some rich guy.
And yet JP wrote the lyrics to both.
And I'd still take TCOT over IT.
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A glorious orchestra in IT is just better to me than, say, MP roaring "HISTORIAN" and "I" in TCOT. Also a song about humanity just connects with me better than a song about someone being afraid of some rich guy.
And yet JP wrote the lyrics to both.
And I'd still take TCOT over IT.
Yep.
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Dont know if this has been mentioned - It's been bugging me what that orch theme reminded me of and its from Twin Peaks - Laura Palmers theme.
At 3.00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khMlcTE7lw8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khMlcTE7lw8)
Very similar.
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I'm just being snarky about the way he phrased it.
How else should he have phrased it? Just curious.
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It's only a few seconds worth, but when I saw this episode the first time I almost did a double take (sorry about the quality, it's all I could find on Youtube). Listen to the background music from around 2:57 onwards. It's only for a few notes, and totally coincidental, but I got a kick out of it nonetheless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3khqbbUgNMI&t=177
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Dont know if this has been mentioned - It's been bugging me what that orch theme reminded me of and its from Twin Peaks - Laura Palmers theme.
At 3.00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khMlcTE7lw8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khMlcTE7lw8)
Very similar.
That could actually be intended. DT used the Twin Peaks theme as an intro sometimes in the 90s I believe.
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Even if it does reprise a melody from the beginning of the song that doesn't really change the fact that they just shoved it in there with a couple of reverse swells on either side of it. Lazy.
This coming from a fan who has bought every album, compilation, DVD, etc...a fan who's going to the meet & greet....in other words, a supportive fan of the band. I just don't like that part, don't see the need for it in there and for me, frankly, it kind of ruins that song. I just don't have the patience to sit through 4 minutes of that stuff. Is it a beautiful piece? Yeah, sure. Is it well executed? Yup, well executed. I'm not criticizing the piece itself. Just the way they used it. Doesn't make any sense to me at all.
On 6DOIT it made sense. It was a fairly typical overture for a symphonic collection of songs all tied together by a common lyrical and musical thread. It was in the beginning of the suite, which is the traditional spot for an overture like this. On this album, in this particular instance, I'm just not a fan of how the piece was utilized. It's clumsy and almost feels like a gimmick. It's like an intermission.....hey wait a minute, maybe that's why I always feel like I need to pee when that part comes on. :justjen :P :biggrin:
Hey, again, I'm a huge fan of these guys, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna love every single thing they do. Other than this small gripe, I think it's a solid album.
The reverse swells for me are not lazy transitions. It signifies going to another plane - a transcendental plane.
The way I appreciated the "Embracing Circle" is that this is the Illumination part of the song's narrative. Basically, the first half of IT poses questions: What are you willing to live for? to die for? to kill for? It is asking for "an answer that begs to be found" The ambient section that follows it sort of signifies that the questions remain unanswered even in a moment of transcendence. And it remains unanswered for quite some time, which is why the ambient section is quite lengthy. But "illumination" starts to creep in slowly with the orchestral part until it leads to a moment of enlightenment with the orchestral version of the intro, which signals a new "illuminated" beginning. After this moment of enlightenment, the song "returns" to a non-transcendental phase but this time with answers to the questions posed before the moment of illumination. What are mothers willing to live, die and kill for? Their children. Husbands are willing to live, die and kill for their wives. Martyrs are willing to live die and kill for the kingdom. And so on and so forth.
Thus, the orchestral part, Embracing Circle, is indeed used here as an overture to the "illuminated" section of the song, The Pursuit of Truth. It will not serve its proper narrative function if it is placed at the start, because the more heavy-sounding music of Paradox of the Black Light better fits as an introduction to the "un-illuminated" Live, Die and Kill section. The two overtures share the same melody.
Question about the final section. Does Surrender, Trust and Passion start at the repeat of the heavy riff in Paradox of the Black Light, or already at the slow section leading to "To really feel the joy in life..."?
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I would say it truly begins when the musical theme of Part 5 kicks in, which the beginning of I find to be a little bit similar to the ending of The Bigger Picture.
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I'm just being snarky about the way he phrased it.
How else should he have phrased it? Just curious.
It could just be me, but the way he said it sounded a bit self-important, liked "I can't believe ANYONE could not understand what I do."
Though again, that's just how it sounded to me.
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The reverse swells for me are not lazy transitions. It signifies going to another plane - a transcendental plane.
The way I appreciated the "Embracing Circle" is that this is the Illumination part of the song's narrative. Basically, the first half of IT poses questions: What are you willing to live for? to die for? to kill for? It is asking for "an answer that begs to be found" The ambient section that follows it sort of signifies that the questions remain unanswered even in a moment of transcendence. And it remains unanswered for quite some time, which is why the ambient section is quite lengthy. But "illumination" starts to creep in slowly with the orchestral part until it leads to a moment of enlightenment with the orchestral version of the intro, which signals a new "illuminated" beginning. After this moment of enlightenment, the song "returns" to a non-transcendental phase but this time with answers to the questions posed before the moment of illumination. What are mothers willing to live, die and kill for? Their children. Husbands are willing to live, die and kill for their wives. Martyrs are willing to live die and kill for the kingdom. And so on and so forth.
Thus, the orchestral part, Embracing Circle, is indeed used here as an overture to the "illuminated" section of the song, The Pursuit of Truth. It will not serve its proper narrative function if it is placed at the start, because the more heavy-sounding music of Paradox of the Black Light better fits as an introduction to the "un-illuminated" Live, Die and Kill section. The two overtures share the same melody.
Thanks for this awesome interpretation of the music and lyrics. I'm terrible at stuff like this but your explanation has completely opened my mind to fully appreciate the Illumination Theory. I love IT already but now it means so much more to me.
Thanks again.
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It really saddens me that so many people make versions of the song where the ambient or orchestral sections are cut out... It's some really beautiful stuff. If that part wasn't in the song, I'd probably like it half as much. It would sound like a Systematic Chaos medley.
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I guess we're just not as smart as you.
Actually, he is right. The end of the orchestral section does replicate the melody from the very beginning of the song. Unless I am missing some sort of joke?
This is the official Roadrunner upload: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFMDGSWhHbo
From 10:17 until 10:55 is the exact same melody as the opening of the track.
Dude! OH. MY. GOD!!!
Never noticed that before!!!!
Seriously this song is so good. So so so so so good.
It really saddens me that so many people make versions of the song where the ambient or orchestral sections are cut out... It's some really beautiful stuff. If that part wasn't in the song, I'd probably like it half as much.
I know what you mean. The Embracing Circle is a huge part of what makes the song so special.
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I'm just being snarky about the way he phrased it.
How else should he have phrased it? Just curious.
It could just be me, but the way he said it sounded a bit self-important, liked "I can't believe ANYONE could not understand what I do."
Though again, that's just how it sounded to me.
It is not that I can not believe anyone could not understand what I do. It's not about me. I can nto believe that anyone can not hear the common melody between the intro and the orchestral part. that is what I was saying.
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I figured that was it, I was just being a bit of an ass. No hard feelings meant. :D
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It's only a few seconds worth, but when I saw this episode the first time I almost did a double take (sorry about the quality, it's all I could find on Youtube). Listen to the background music from around 2:57 onwards. It's only for a few notes, and totally coincidental, but I got a kick out of it nonetheless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3khqbbUgNMI&t=177
Those few notes are actually pretty bloody similar. Scary actually.
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It's only a few seconds worth, but when I saw this episode the first time I almost did a double take (sorry about the quality, it's all I could find on Youtube). Listen to the background music from around 2:57 onwards. It's only for a few notes, and totally coincidental, but I got a kick out of it nonetheless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3khqbbUgNMI&t=177
Those few notes are actually pretty bloody similar. Scary actually.
It is only a few notes, so it's certainly a coincidence, but they're arranged so similarly that it seems really close.
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Well, at least it was a really good episode! :hat
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I would say it truly begins when the musical theme of Part 5 kicks in, which the beginning of I find to be a little bit similar to the ending of The Bigger Picture.
That's what I originally thought too, then I got to thinking that maybe it is the riff section because it would make nice symmetry. The riffing section that ended Paradox of the Black Light would be the riffing section that introduces Surrender, Trust & Passion whose lyrics actually spell out the paradox. Maybe I am overanalyzing this already. :p
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So, I was never crazy about this song before. I always thought it had moments of brilliance, but these moments were only fleeting and in some cases, felt like they were trying to evoke moments from albums past.
But I gotta admit. Surrender, Trust and Passion felt pretty epic when I experienced it live. Both times. Seriously. The other night, when I was at the show, I came pretty close to tears and I'm not at all ashamed to admit it.
But then, the next day I tried listening to the album version again to see if that experience made me appreciate the song more. I dove straight into Surrender, Trust and Passion, but I didn't even make it to the end of the lyrical section.
And do you know why? It's the PRODUCTION. The sound of the album just totally puts me off. I hate it.
I am generally on the side of the fence that production isn't that important and doesn't make or break an album compared to the song writing, and I haven't really partaken in too many discussions about that particular issue on these forums. But I am sorry to say that in this case, it really totally ruins my enjoyment of what should be, by rights, one of the greatest and most epic moments in all of DT.
...seriously, it makes me sad that they could release an album full of great songs that sounds so terrible.
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I think it's a cool song. As far as their epics go, it's at the bottom with ITPOE. It just feels a bit disjointed to me.
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It really saddens me that so many people make versions of the song where the ambient or orchestral sections are cut out... It's some really beautiful stuff. If that part wasn't in the song, I'd probably like it half as much. It would sound like a Systematic Chaos medley.
See, it still feels like a Systematic Chaos medley to me (okay, maybe not that bad) but with an orchestral break slapped in the middle for shits and giggles.
And yes, I get the relation to the lyrics/theme.
Overall I agree with Blob, as usual.
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Even if it does reprise a melody from the beginning of the song that doesn't really change the fact that they just shoved it in there with a couple of reverse swells on either side of it. Lazy.
This coming from a fan who has bought every album, compilation, DVD, etc...a fan who's going to the meet & greet....in other words, a supportive fan of the band. I just don't like that part, don't see the need for it in there and for me, frankly, it kind of ruins that song. I just don't have the patience to sit through 4 minutes of that stuff. Is it a beautiful piece? Yeah, sure. Is it well executed? Yup, well executed. I'm not criticizing the piece itself. Just the way they used it. Doesn't make any sense to me at all.
On 6DOIT it made sense. It was a fairly typical overture for a symphonic collection of songs all tied together by a common lyrical and musical thread. It was in the beginning of the suite, which is the traditional spot for an overture like this. On this album, in this particular instance, I'm just not a fan of how the piece was utilized. It's clumsy and almost feels like a gimmick. It's like an intermission.....hey wait a minute, maybe that's why I always feel like I need to pee when that part comes on. :justjen :P :biggrin:
Hey, again, I'm a huge fan of these guys, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna love every single thing they do. Other than this small gripe, I think it's a solid album.
The reverse swells for me are not lazy transitions. It signifies going to another plane - a transcendental plane.
The way I appreciated the "Embracing Circle" is that this is the Illumination part of the song's narrative. Basically, the first half of IT poses questions: What are you willing to live for? to die for? to kill for? It is asking for "an answer that begs to be found" The ambient section that follows it sort of signifies that the questions remain unanswered even in a moment of transcendence. And it remains unanswered for quite some time, which is why the ambient section is quite lengthy. But "illumination" starts to creep in slowly with the orchestral part until it leads to a moment of enlightenment with the orchestral version of the intro, which signals a new "illuminated" beginning. After this moment of enlightenment, the song "returns" to a non-transcendental phase but this time with answers to the questions posed before the moment of illumination. What are mothers willing to live, die and kill for? Their children. Husbands are willing to live, die and kill for their wives. Martyrs are willing to live die and kill for the kingdom. And so on and so forth.
Thus, the orchestral part, Embracing Circle, is indeed used here as an overture to the "illuminated" section of the song, The Pursuit of Truth. It will not serve its proper narrative function if it is placed at the start, because the more heavy-sounding music of Paradox of the Black Light better fits as an introduction to the "un-illuminated" Live, Die and Kill section. The two overtures share the same melody.
Question about the final section. Does Surrender, Trust and Passion start at the repeat of the heavy riff in Paradox of the Black Light, or already at the slow section leading to "To really feel the joy in life..."?
I completely get what you are saying, and I think that from a compositional and/or conceptual standpoint, it is nothing short of brilliant (pun not intended, but very apropos, no?). In fact, I would say that there are a number of aspects about the song that are brilliant. However, I am still with KNH just in terms of the fact that, despite all that, I just don't really like the middle section in the context of the song. It just doesn't work for me, despite that I get where they were going with it and why it is there and that, in concept, I think it was a great idea.
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After almost a year of this thread, I can say that this song is on my top 3. Probably first place alongside with LTL.
And yes, still has the power to make me cry if i listen to it carefully enough (read first post on this thread if wonder).
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I have really come to appreciate this song. That said, although I intellectually appreciate the middle section, I still don't like it. :)
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I was playing Oblivion last night, and thought I would put on something in 5.1, but I didn't want Genesis or Crimson, so I opted for a little mini concert with Systematic Chaos followed by DT12.
Maybe it was the mood I was in, maybe it was the night (it is rainy here in Connecticut), maybe it was because I was alone... but both albums just kicked my ass up, down, left, and right. I'm still not down with the growly vocals in Constant Motion, The Dark Eternal Night isn't my favorite song of all time, and generally, some of the lyrics are best ignored, but the rest was far better than I remember, and far better than some of the posters here would have you believe.
But here's the reason for the post here: I also pleasantly surprised by how DT12 hit me, and specifically The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Along For The Ride, and Illumination Theory. The big surprise was IT. That just didn't connect for me for some reason, until last night. The three parts (I know it's five: I mean I/II, then III, then IV/V), the build up, the finale... it was really a strong piece of music, and for me, the idea of the interlude works. Whether I'd prefer it rearranged isn't relevant, because it's their statement, and that statement came through loud and clear. And whether it was just the contrast or what, but for whatever reason, I actually consulted the lyric book more than once just to make sure I heard what I thought I heard, and even reversed a couple passages to hear them again. I don't have them in 5.1, but I am driving this weekend, so I may revisit BC&SL and ADTOE in the same way and see if the magic strikes twice.
Really fired up to have connected with IT like that.
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Don't know if this has been answered already in the thread, but does anyone know what those creepy monster things are supposed to be in the concert animation?
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I was playing Oblivion last night, and thought I would put on something in 5.1, but I didn't want Genesis or Crimson, so I opted for a little mini concert with Systematic Chaos followed by DT12.
Maybe it was the mood I was in, maybe it was the night (it is rainy here in Connecticut), maybe it was because I was alone... but both albums just kicked my ass up, down, left, and right. I'm still not down with the growly vocals in Constant Motion, The Dark Eternal Night isn't my favorite song of all time, and generally, some of the lyrics are best ignored, but the rest was far better than I remember, and far better than some of the posters here would have you believe.
But here's the reason for the post here: I also pleasantly surprised by how DT12 hit me, and specifically The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Along For The Ride, and Illumination Theory. The big surprise was IT. That just didn't connect for me for some reason, until last night. The three parts (I know it's five: I mean I/II, then III, then IV/V), the build up, the finale... it was really a strong piece of music, and for me, the idea of the interlude works. Whether I'd prefer it rearranged isn't relevant, because it's their statement, and that statement came through loud and clear. And whether it was just the contrast or what, but for whatever reason, I actually consulted the lyric book more than once just to make sure I heard what I thought I heard, and even reversed a couple passages to hear them again. I don't have them in 5.1, but I am driving this weekend, so I may revisit BC&SL and ADTOE in the same way and see if the magic strikes twice.
Really fired up to have connected with IT like that.
:metal
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*awesome post*
What a minute man, that's not how it is, you must be confused...
You couldn't still be playing Oblivion!
:lol
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The orchestral part of IT matches quite well with the soundtrack of that game :lol
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It made me cry as well, the last part was very moving specially for some one like who battled depression and still battling it.
You will never know
You will neer know.
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I still think it's a pretty damn great song. The BTFW version was pretty good with the strings and the crowd totally digging it. The lyrics are still top-notch as well, especially during Live, Die, Kill.
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It made me cry as well, the last part was very moving specially for some one like who battled depression and still battling it.
You will never know
You will neer know.
I agree with that and empathize completely. That whole last verse gets me every time. I always quote those lines of Facebook and people really like it.
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I've seen DT live 12 times now and have cried at least once at about 5 or 6 shows, IT makes me cry every time I listen to it, when the orchestra kicks in on the BTFW blu-ray it blows my mind, I have sobbed uncontrollably if i'm feeling a bit down listening to it
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The ending of IT is for me the only time I've ever cried on not just DT concert but any concert and I cried out of happiness and I cried a lot. It was incredible. It happened when the the crowd was waving with hands together with JLB during JP's solo and on the screen was suddenly shown a little boy in the crowd on shoulders of his father.
He was waving as well and his face was so beautiful, clean and innocent like the most children has but combined with the message of the song it was a perfect fit and connected with me very very deeply and I totally exploded with joy and happiness. It was one of the most emotional moment in my life yet. This is the reason why IT and whole DT12 will always have a very very special place in my heart.
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Chalk me down for crying as well. I have cried nearly every time I have heard IT, always near the end.
It is a struggle sometimes to face the fears inside.
At the same time I feel the song is emotionally supporting me so ultimately it is an uplifting experience.
Most resonating song I have heard.
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I don't really like the instrumental part. Not that it isn't good but it sort of ruins the mood.
If it were a Yes song they would have had Jon Anderson sing a nice melody during that part.
My favorite part of the song is the last 3 minutes. I wish DT would start a tradition of releasing
Instrumental versions of all of their future albums and some of them from the past .
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The ending of IT is for me the only time I've ever cried on not just DT concert but any concert and I cried out of happiness and I cried a lot. It was incredible. It happened when the the crowd was waving with hands together with JLB during JP's solo and on the screen was suddenly shown a little boy in the crowd on shoulders of his father.
He was waving as well and his face was so beautiful, clean and innocent like the most children has but combined with the message of the song it was a perfect fit and connected with me very very deeply and I totally exploded with joy and happiness. It was one of the most emotional moment in my life yet. This is the reason why IT and whole DT12 will always have a very very special place in my heart.
Thanks for sharing Mirzek :tup
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I really love this song like their other epics, SDOIT and SFaM,
The orchestra interlude is great,
And another thing Eren Basbug made some arrangement for that and he conducted as well Considering a few years ago nobody knew who he was he was just a Music student in Turkey who happens to be a fan of Dream Theater who made a school pressentation of the SDOIT suite and Octavarium.
And now he arranged and conducted a piece that could be considered one of the greatest songs from one the greatest bands ever. He really did follow his dreams and made it.
You will Never know
You will Never know.
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And now he arranged and conducted a piece that could be considered one of the greatest songs from one the greatest bands ever. He really did follow his dreams and made it.
I think that orchestral section is one of the best things they've ever done, so huge credit to Eren there, but the song? Not even close to one of their greatest imo.
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The ending of IT is for me the only time I've ever cried on not just DT concert but any concert and I cried out of happiness and I cried a lot. It was incredible. It happened when the the crowd was waving with hands together with JLB during JP's solo and on the screen was suddenly shown a little boy in the crowd on shoulders of his father.
He was waving as well and his face was so beautiful, clean and innocent like the most children has but combined with the message of the song it was a perfect fit and connected with me very very deeply and I totally exploded with joy and happiness. It was one of the most emotional moment in my life yet. This is the reason why IT and whole DT12 will always have a very very special place in my heart.
Very nice thanks for sharing, I think they really intend to capture the emotion on this one these guys ( DT ) knows what they are really doing the song it self may not be that deep and the musicality may not be the most technical but they certainly found a chemistry that will touch a listener maybe because its easy to relate to and the melodies more predictable and yet emotional its really hard to explain.
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I also love how they presented the whole song live in Baston in Breaking the fourth Wall.!!
They played first Songs from the Album Awake like Space Die Vest, The Mirror and Scared which I think are one of the darker DT albums and songs then They play Illumination theory which is somewhat a resolution to the "darkness" if you will
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No tears on this one, but it's the best off the album. LOVE IT!
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I don't remember at what point it happened for me, but I definitely cried at beautiful ending of Illumination Theory. My mother passed away just before this album was released, and once while listening to Surrender, Trust & Passion, I just lost it. I love that section of the song. It's so powerful and emotional, and it's my favorite part of the entire piece.
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Count me as one of the people who gets a little emotional during the orchestral section. It's such a beautiful piece of music and the whole song is really one of their best.
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Its still put me to tears even to this day when I listen to IT.. specially V. "Surrender, Trust & Passion"
"Until you struggle in the dark you will never know you are alive"
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IT is one of the best five songs DT's ever made.
How many artists are producing their best work almost 30 years into their careers?
To borrow a line from hack movie critics, IT is an astounding achievement.
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I was listening to Illumination Theory today as I was driving home. It was a picture-esque evening if there ever was one. It was a truly special moment. I'll have to post pictures later, but it was something like this.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Cedarbreaksnationalmonument.jpg/284px-Cedarbreaksnationalmonument.jpg)
(https://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/479511561.jpg?v=2&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=S-o_i33u0AEvqTlMcx0gxcnrNQcBYZcurF3SZvIzoyzgLsu68334GvyghLEFoN5P0)
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Listened to this song today and there are some amazing moments in this entire track. I think my favorite part will always be the first solo by JP.
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Myung's bass sounds incredible in this song. I really like his playing during the neo-classical section before the song goes into the new age section.
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Bump.
I just had my soul crushed by the Breaking The Fourth Wall version of IT. My god what a song. I can't even find the right words
to describe how moving this song is. It is everything I love about DT. Killer riffs, flawless execution and beautiful melodies.
On this beautiful sunny day, moving into spring, this song really hit me.
Wow
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:tup
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Absolutely. I think it's easily their best "epic", and a perfect album closer. While a song has never made me cry, the last section of IT is the closest I've ever gotten. Plus there's the easter egg (I still wish this got played live somehow).
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Bump.
I just had my soul crushed by the Breaking The Fourth Wall version of IT. My god what a song. I can't even find the right words
to describe how moving this song is. It is everything I love about DT. Killer riffs, flawless execution and beautiful melodies.
On this beautiful sunny day, moving into spring, this song really hit me.
Wow
To this day, the structure of this song still throws me, and I have a difficult time really being engaged by the middle section. But that said, I love just about everything else about the song. I was just thinking about it over the weekend too. Need to listen.
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Absolutely. I think it's easily their best "epic", and a perfect album closer. While a song has never made me cry, the last section of IT is the closest I've ever gotten. Plus there's the easter egg (I still wish this got played live somehow).
I've been close to tears from it as well. It's like my emotions are amplified and can't fit inside me anymore so they want to leak out my eyes. LOL
What a damn good song.
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Bump.
I just had my soul crushed by the Breaking The Fourth Wall version of IT. My god what a song. I can't even find the right words
to describe how moving this song is. It is everything I love about DT. Killer riffs, flawless execution and beautiful melodies.
On this beautiful sunny day, moving into spring, this song really hit me.
Wow
To this day, the structure of this song still throws me, and I have a difficult time really being engaged by the middle section. But that said, I love just about everything else about the song. I was just thinking about it over the weekend too. Need to listen.
I've always been a sucker for that kind of contrast. Floyd's Dogs and Yes's Awaken are perfect examples. I can understand how
people might not get/feel that section but man oh man it moves me big time. Just so beautiful and peaceful.
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Bump.
I just had my soul crushed by the Breaking The Fourth Wall version of IT. My god what a song. I can't even find the right words
to describe how moving this song is. It is everything I love about DT. Killer riffs, flawless execution and beautiful melodies.
On this beautiful sunny day, moving into spring, this song really hit me.
Wow
Welcome to the illumination theory emotional fans club,
That last section is so moving it is so damn inspiring hell children at school should sing it!!!
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Absolutely. I think it's easily their best "epic", and a perfect album closer. While a song has never made me cry, the last section of IT is the closest I've ever gotten. Plus there's the easter egg (I still wish this got played live somehow).
I've been close to tears from it as well. It's like my emotions are amplified and can't fit inside me anymore so they want to leak out my eyes. LOL
What a damn good song.
It seems the last section of IT really gets a lot of listeners I guess because it is something a lot of people can related too!!
It is because everyhuman being has faced strugles,pain and the fear of death, so the Melody and the lyrics of that final part really hits home.
And it really fits as the Finale of the Song!! so it brings some sort of closure!!
I think the message is never give up no matter how difficult your situation no matter how hopeless once.
Never give up because you will never know!!!!
Just like Eren Busbu he is just a college guy in Turkey who loves Prog Metal and Dream Theater he just pursued his career in Music and made that school project a symphony Cover of Six degrees of Inner turbulence and Ovtavarium.
Then one day Jordan Rudess saw the Video in Youtube,
Then years later he conducts the Orchestra at Beyond the fourth wall, that Orchestral Middle section is like a tribute to him!!
Just look at it this way he just started as fan of DT, how many times that has happened that a big fan of a band then gets hired to arrange and conduct the orchestra for the band he always loved!!
It is just awesome.
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Illumination Theory - James LaBrie Awake era AI Voice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xthfC8p2bdw
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James LaBrie Awake era AI Voice
Oh please don't do this... **blocks ears**
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Yeah, at this point, I'm steering clear of all AI voice videos on youtube. They're all over the place.
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James' voice on Awake was fine. But all this does is make DT's poorest epic worse.
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I prefer the studio JLB of today vs. JLB of Awake
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Illumination Theory - James LaBrie Awake era AI Voice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xthfC8p2bdw
Wow, this is fucking terrible. I'm not understanding the point of these.
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Anything for clicks.
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Anything for clicks.
Yeah, I am refusing to click on any of these AI generated vocal videos.
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I would say that if it was just for clicks...they are doing it with the wrong band and genre :lol
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I would say that if it was just for clicks...they are doing it with the wrong band and genre :lol
And probably are earning $0.00 for it so I think it's probably more for fun.
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All of these AI tracks are pretty much bullshit.
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Anything for clicks.
Yeah, I am refusing to click on any of these AI generated vocal videos.
Same.
I saw one linked on Reddit the other day where someone re-did all of The Astonishing with different singers doing the various parts. In theory, that might make that album a lot more interesting, but I was not going to go there.
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That said, haven't seen SeRoX in a while now, he left the building?
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Anything for clicks.
Yeah, I am refusing to click on any of these AI generated vocal videos.
Same.
Out of curiosity, why? I find it mildly interesting to see how AI is being used.
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Anything for clicks.
Yeah, I am refusing to click on any of these AI generated vocal videos.
Same.
I saw one linked on Reddit the other day where someone re-did all of The Astonishing with different singers doing the various parts. In theory, that might make that album a lot more interesting, but I was not going to go there.
Same here as well. I'm 100% not interested.
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Anything for clicks.
Yeah, I am refusing to click on any of these AI generated vocal videos.
Same.
Out of curiosity, why? I find it mildly interesting to see how AI is being used.
Fair question. I've listened to a few of them, and they're just weird. They're only slightly better than the NOMAC tracks.
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Anything for clicks.
Yeah, I am refusing to click on any of these AI generated vocal videos.
Same.
Out of curiosity, why? I find it mildly interesting to see how AI is being used.
Fair question. I've listened to a few of them, and they're just weird. They're only slightly better than the NOMAC tracks.
Weird is putting it kindly. I think they suck - but I'm not refusing to click on 'em... some of them I just don't have any interest. Nothing I've heard in any of the others makes me want to finish the listen, or ever come back to it.
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Surely there's more productive things we can do with AI as opposed to recreating The Astonishing! :lol
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Surely there's more productive things we can do with AI as opposed to recreating The Astonishing! :lol
Of course there is:
https://youtu.be/_Lrv8qkA7Dk?si=MY2wsmnke8UJvQKJ&t=183