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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: LTE3 on August 19, 2013, 08:07:30 AM
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Not really a vs. conversation more of the songs are too similar in many ways. I feel that TEI is like a sped up version of an abridged Bridges in the Sky. At least when John's starts playing on Bridges the similarities the the TEI beginning is surprising similar just more slowly played. Also The James section of when he sings "Blackness Awakens" in Bridges is very close to the section of TEI that starts out "I'm a burden I'm a Travesty"
I love BITS and what a great opener for the show it was, but I have voiced my complaints about TEI and it's lack of originality. Just wondering if anyone else here it.
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I'm not sure I would compare these two.
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I'm not sure I would compare these two.
Amen
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I'm not sure I would compare these two.
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I'm not sure I would compare these two.
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The intro riffs are kind of similar, but other than that, no.
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Not really a vs. conversation more of the songs are too similar in many ways. I feel that TEI is like a sped up version of an abridged Bridges in the Sky. At least when John's starts playing on Bridges the similarities the the TEI beginning is surprising similar just more slowly played. Also The James section of when he sings "Blackness Awakens" in Bridges is very close to the section of TEI that starts out "I'm a burden I'm a Travesty"
I love BITS and what a great opener for the show it was, but I have voiced my complaints about TEI and it's lack of originality. Just wondering if anyone else here it.
YEP. 1st thought that came to mind on 1st listen was BITS. Disappointed by the lack of originality in DT lately. I mean, for smn who gives so much attention to music to go ahead and make a song like TEI wit a riff that is so underwhelming (typical of bands that do not know how to make great riffs so they speed everything up and make it super heavy so as to I guess mask the fact that the riff is boring in itself) is confusing to me... it's almost as if the creative juices are running dry in DT. well let's hear the rest of the album 1st
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I expect TEI to be the new BMUBMD on this album. But my guess is as good as yours.
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other than both 7 string songs, there isn't too many similarities
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They are nothing alike, but I like Bridges in the Sky much more than The Enemy Inside.
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If Bridges was mixed like TEI, it would be one of my all time favorite songs. Bridges was killer on a live setting.
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other than both 7 string songs, there isn't too many similarities
well the riffs are pretty similar in their uncreativeness
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other than both 7 string songs, there isn't too many similarities
well the riffs are pretty similar in their uncreativeness
*ALERT* Somebody's posting their opinion as a fact *ALERT*
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Those two songs are nothing alike. The only thing they have in common to my ears are fast guitar riffs. Still those riffs are pretty different. Different scales, different time signatures and feel. Also, BITS is my favorite DT tune, while TEI is in the bottom 10.
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I'd say The Enemy Inside is more similar to Lost Not Forgotten, but even that's mainly just sonically. Structurally, TEI is a fairly simpler song. But in terms of the actual music, and overall composition, I'd say BITS > TEI > LNF
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I don't think the songs are anywhere near each other. Not really comparable at all. The only similarity I hear is the 7 string guitar.
Bits is much more keyboard oriented, despite the guitar opening. Whereas TEI's keys are more atmosphere than driving the song.
Drums on BitS are simple compared to TEI. The complexity isn't there to my ears.
TEI has a discernable chorus.
TEI isn't half the song BitS is.... length wise.
Both great songs, but TEI crushes BitS in almost every aspect. :metal
EDIT: This is my opinion, of course.
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other than both 7 string songs, there isn't too many similarities
well the riffs are pretty similar in their uncreativeness
*ALERT* Somebody's posting their opinion as a fact *ALERT*
Oh excuse me, could you please then factfully describe the creativeness of the two riffs. i try to be objective. i could have said that the riffs are a piece of s#$t but I didn't. I said that they were uncreative, which they are. a factful proof would be that there's nothing interesting in there. no developing melody, nothing memorable, just a mud of notes that "showcase technical ability" being fats-heavy-technical for its own sake. they're composed of speed+heavyness and a sprinkle of odd time signatures. Now, creative riffs would be the likes of TGP or even TDEN, you know, those you instantly want to cover on your guitar, and those you instantly recognize in concert. I'm willing to bet that in a live setting you wouldn't even be able to recognize neither BITS nor TEI w/o contextual evidence
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No idea what version of BITS you have, but I think every single riff and melody in that song is fantastic and memorable. It's a top 20 DT song for me in general. I love TEI, but BITS is a masterpiece.
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No idea what version of BITS you have, but I think every single riff and melody in that song is fantastic and memorable. It's a top 20 DT song for me in general. I love TEI, but BITS is a masterpiece.
I'm refering to the intro riffs of both songs. Although, the only thing that is memorable for me , from both songs, is the verse from TEI and chorus from BITS. everything around those parts is a musical attachment that bands do when they have no more good ideas so they reach in their stock of readymade "goodenough" basic ideas. I?m being overly cruel here and I apologize for that as obviously these are matters of personal taste but just to put my taste in context, the only 2 songs I value highly from ADTOE are BAI and TITL and little less so OTBOA
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No idea what version of BITS you have, but I think every single riff and melody in that song is fantastic and memorable. It's a top 20 DT song for me in general. I love TEI, but BITS is a masterpiece.
I'm refering to the intro riffs of both songs. Although, the only thing that is memorable for me , from both songs, is the verse from TEI and chorus from BITS. everything around those parts is a musical attachment that bands do when they have no more good ideas so they reach in their stock of readymade "goodenough" basic ideas. I?m being overly cruel here and I apologize for that as obviously these are matters of personal taste but just to put my taste in context, the only 2 songs I value highly from ADTOE are BAI and TITL and little less so OTBOA
This is interesting. While you are being a little harsh, I completely see where you are coming from...
I can't even recall the bridges in the sky riffs. They didn't stick in my head. But I could hum you the riffs off blind faith, home, metropolis, glass moon, lie, strange dejavu... etc.
I think their last truly creative riff was from Dark Eternal Night.
While the TEI isn't a bad riff, I don't think it is all too creative. I think the song as a whole entity works though. I also think the instrumental section is the best they've done in a while.
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I can't even recall the bridges in the sky riffs. They didn't stick in my head. But I could hum you the riffs off blind faith, home, metropolis, glass moon, lie, strange dejavu... etc.
Funny, I remember every single riff pretty much note for note. I love the riffs in BITS.
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Not really a vs. conversation more of the songs are too similar in many ways. I feel that TEI is like a sped up version of an abridged Bridges in the Sky. At least when John's starts playing on Bridges the similarities the the TEI beginning is surprising similar just more slowly played. Also The James section of when he sings "Blackness Awakens" in Bridges is very close to the section of TEI that starts out "I'm a burden I'm a Travesty"
I love BITS and what a great opener for the show it was, but I have voiced my complaints about TEI and it's lack of originality. Just wondering if anyone else here it.
YEP. 1st thought that came to mind on 1st listen was BITS. Disappointed by the lack of originality in DT lately. I mean, for smn who gives so much attention to music to go ahead and make a song like TEI wit a riff that is so underwhelming (typical of bands that do not know how to make great riffs so they speed everything up and make it super heavy so as to I guess mask the fact that the riff is boring in itself) is confusing to me... it's almost as if the creative juices are running dry in DT. well let's hear the rest of the album 1st
The thing is though, you can't really blame a band for sounding too much like themselves.
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I can't even recall the bridges in the sky riffs. They didn't stick in my head. But I could hum you the riffs off blind faith, home, metropolis, glass moon, lie, strange dejavu... etc.
Funny, I remember every single riff pretty much note for note. I love the riffs in BITS.
Completely this. They are technical, memorable, heavy and overall awesome at the same time in such a perfect way :heart
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Although I really like BITS, I agree riffs are not that creative (just my opinion).
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Oh excuse me, could you please then factfully describe the creativeness of the two riffs. i try to be objective. i could have said that the riffs are a piece of s#$t but I didn't.
That kind of flame baiting is not tolerated here. Please read the forum rules you agreed to abide by when you signed up here to avoid future rule violations.
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other than both 7 string songs, there isn't too many similarities
well the riffs are pretty similar in their uncreativeness
*ALERT* Somebody's posting their opinion as a fact *ALERT*
Oh excuse me, could you please then factfully describe the creativeness of the two riffs. i try to be objective. i could have said that the riffs are a piece of s#$t but I didn't. I said that they were uncreative, which they are. a factful proof would be that there's nothing interesting in there. no developing melody, nothing memorable, just a mud of notes that "showcase technical ability" being fats-heavy-technical for its own sake. they're composed of speed+heavyness and a sprinkle of odd time signatures. Now, creative riffs would be the likes of TGP or even TDEN, you know, those you instantly want to cover on your guitar, and those you instantly recognize in concert. I'm willing to bet that in a live setting you wouldn't even be able to recognize neither BITS nor TEI w/o contextual evidence
This is pretty uneccesary, especially from someone with only 44 posts. IMO, I'd take both TEI and BITS riffs over all riffs in TDEN minus the outro.
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I'm refering to the intro riffs of both songs. Although, the only thing that is memorable for me , from both songs, is the verse from TEI and chorus from BITS. everything around those parts is a musical attachment that bands do when they have no more good ideas so they reach in their stock of readymade "goodenough" basic ideas. I?m being overly cruel here and I apologize for that as obviously these are matters of personal taste but just to put my taste in context, the only 2 songs I value highly from ADTOE are BAI and TITL and little less so OTBOA
lol
Anyway the two songs really aren't similar at all so I don't know how meaningful the comparison is but I prefer Bridges. I think they're both very good though.
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This is pretty uneccesary, especially from someone with only 44 posts. IMO, I'd take both TEI and BITS riffs over all riffs in TDEN minus the outro.
I'd take TDEN's riffs over TEI or anything from ADTOE. Fantastic riffage in that one.
But I think BITS and TEI both have great riffing too. Aside from being constant 16th notes, I don't think the riffs are that similar though, and I don't think either of them are generic! Both great songs, but not really comparable.
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The first minute of TDEN are some of the best riffs JP has ever written IMO.
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Even on DT's lesser songs and albums, JP's riffs and solos have always been to a high standard (not that I'm including TDEN as lesser quality here, as I love TDEN, but others consider it lesser).
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@7StringedBeast - exactly what I'm talking about, word for word :)
@Elaitch - DT don't owe me anything and I can't blame them for anything but I do have the right to express my disappointment while clearly describing the reasons for that
@bosk1 - It was a bit of flame baiting now that I've slept on it (I didn't see it as such while writing but more of a overla defensive post) but I guess it was an affective reaction to a post by @Dark Castle which I saw as flame baiting. I apologize to the forum members as well as @Dark Castle
@wolfking - I already admitted being a bit harsh and I apologized for that but I did give clear reasons for my thoughts. I also admitted that this is a matter of personal taste which your post proves. However, those who do have something unflattering to say about DT music have a bit more narrow area to work with than those who have nice things to say. I also don't see what my post count has to do with anything
@theseoafs - these type of responses "lol" which a reply to a seroious post is a type of response I do not appreciate and can set a guy of. You could have done without the "lol" but ok, I guess forms are a bit like traffic - you've got to be extremely careful not to cause offense and be extremely understanding to those that do. I'll try to do better
@BlobVanDam - Yes, the 16th note part is what's bugging (but not in itself) together with no highlighted recognisable parts. 16th notes would be ok if they were arranged in a strong melody. here I feel they're not, like they're jumbled haphazardly but people obviously disagree on this part and it is a matter of taste. they are not the same riffs by any stretch but they are made from the same creative brain space. they are different but the main idea behind them is the same but this can also be a good thing if we take personal taste into account
and on a side note. I don't even put give much attention to riffs in DT music because if I want to listen the music for riffs there are bands that are better in that respect. I listen to DT for other reasons but here they've put so much importance sonically to those riffs that I just had to take note. really strong riffs were never one of DT's strenghts in my opinion but I don't mind that at all... just when they "force" those riffs down my throat, so to speak, is what I don't like and the intro riffs from TEI and BITS are those i feel that way about
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really strong riffs were never one of DT's strenghts
? I think they were and still are.
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I agree I think DT are one of the best bands out there for writing riffs. There are a whole ton of great riffs from them over the years.
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ok, I'll be more precise. They're not that great in those "In your face" riffs that metallica or pantera are famous for (although there are some great riffs there, middle riff from TGP comes to mind) but they do have great riffs on the melodic side of things which I like and why I listen to DT
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Of course DT never made thrash riffs (although song like TDEN is quite thrashy) and it's not because JP can't do it but it doesn't fit style of DT.
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Of course DT never made thrash riffs (although song like TDEN is quite thrashy) and it's not because JP can't do it but it doesn't fit style of DT.
I think Honor Thy Father has a very Thrashy opening riff. DT is very versatile, they CAN write thrash metal if they wanted to, but they can also write progressive rock, acoustic rock, etc. etc. So usually the amount of thrashiness you'd have per album will be minimal.
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^^ this. HTF, TDEN, BITS, TEI, TCOT (first verse), CM, TGP, even As I Am contain some pretty "in your face" riffs.
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DT is influenced by Metallica but it would be hard for them to make thrash fest with keys :lol
Thrashy but progressive. And when I started getting into DT ,TGP sounded like Metallica to me ;)
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I think their metallica influence is starting to go away though. Which makes me sad because I like that style of heavy. I don't like the sound of all this new metal stuff these days.
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DT is influenced by Metallica but it would be hard for them to make thrash fest with keys :lol
Thrashy but progressive. And when I started getting into DT ,TGP sounded like Metallica to me ;)
I think the songs named above already qualify as "Thrash fest with keys". Jordan Rudess knows how to shred keys, so he can make 'metal' out of a keyboard.
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You are right but I think we can't compare Dream Theater and thrash.
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You are right but I think we can't compare Dream Theater and thrash.
Not generally, but songs like HTF and TDS can easily be compared to the hardest Metallica stuff, IMO.
And let's not forget that outro section of the album version of Lie. :metal
Dream Theater is not Thrash, but they are versatile enough that they can do thrashy songs, and have done thrashy songs. Heck, even the riffs on The Enemy Inside are reminiscent of Megadeth.
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I tried to prove DT can't make thrash riffs and I proved they can :lol
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I tried to prove DT can't make thrash riffs and I proved they can :lol
That's because you forgot that Petrucci can do ANYTHING.
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No idea what version of BITS you have, but I think every single riff and melody in that song is fantastic and memorable. It's a top 20 DT song for me in general. I love TEI, but BITS is a masterpiece.
I think BITS is the best song in ADTOE
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No idea what version of BITS you have, but I think every single riff and melody in that song is fantastic and memorable. It's a top 20 DT song for me in general. I love TEI, but BITS is a masterpiece.
I think BITS is the best song in ADTOE
It is
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No idea what version of BITS you have, but I think every single riff and melody in that song is fantastic and memorable. It's a top 20 DT song for me in general. I love TEI, but BITS is a masterpiece.
I think BITS is the best song in ADTOE
It is
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
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It's a fact :P
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DT is influenced by Metallica but it would be hard for them to make thrash fest with keys :lol
Thrashy but progressive. And when I started getting into DT ,TGP sounded like Metallica to me ;)
I think the songs named above already qualify as "Thrash fest with keys". Jordan Rudess knows how to shred keys, so he can make 'metal' out of a keyboard.
But can he make a keyboard out of metal ? ;D ;D