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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: sneakyblueberry on July 26, 2009, 03:21:59 PM
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Curious to know how people view him here and his work in DT. I for one think he's a fantastic musician and showman, but I’m a little biased as OIALT was the first DT album I ever got and I loved it from the get go. I think, generally, he tends to be over-looked due to the old ‘hired-gun’ chestnut and the fact that he was around when the band was probably at its lowest point.
I’ve been listening to Scarred a lot and I have to say I prefer his performance of that on OIALT over any other version by JR and KM.
This thread is awesome.
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He's fantastic, both with DT and without. He added that little extra that made FII more bearable/awesome, and he is indeed an awesome showman. Nicky Lemons and the Migraines, anyone?
And solo-wise, he writes fantastic stuff. His solo albums are all outstanding, and with Planet X he's outstanding as well. Nobody should ever overlook him
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The man's a total legend. Mythology is my favourite instrumental album I think - it's one of that rare breed of prog-metal instrumental albums that prioritises making amazing music over showing off. Every song is brilliant on its own merits.
I interviewed him earlier this year and I was essentially a gibbering wreck, he's one of my heroes. Such a legend.
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To be honest, I had no idea FII didn't have KM on it until I actually checked after my third listen. Can't say I know any of his work outside of DT.
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He's fantastic, both with DT and without. He added that little extra that made FII more bearable/awesome, and he is indeed an awesome showman. Nicky Lemons and the Migraines, anyone?
Agreed. From watching videos and such it seems he gave the band a greater sense of style and "rock". :p I love his work on Falling Into Infinity
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I really liked Derek's playing a lot. His work on ACOS and FII was great. I've also heard some of his solo material. Really good keyboard player.
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great player, seems like a nice guy. would love to meet him/see him sometime.
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That solo in the Summer section of ACOS is one of my favorite DT keyboard solos ever.
And that synthy tone of his on FII is just plain awesome
Great player, really adds a lot to the music, shame he wasn't on board for longer.
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Can't say I know any of his work outside of DT.
If you can, try to pick up Black Utopia or Mythology (by Derek Sherinian) and Moonbabies by Planet X at some point. Great stuff there
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I liked him in DT, except he used the Hammond Organ patch way too much, and I didn't really like his silly, flamboyant choice of style.
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I thought he was great.
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His work with DT i thought was great stuff. Can't say anything on his solo work because i've never listened to it, but i bet it's good.
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Easily DT's worst keyboardist. He's fine on FII (which is one of my favourites), but live I've never thought much of him.
Funny story-
Back when I was first getting into DT and didn't know DT's history, I remember getting a copy of OIALT and at the time I thought it was JR in the band, and I remember thinking "geez, he's playing awful here, yet only a few years later he manages to play absolutely flawlessly on LSFNY. How could he play this bad after 4 years in the band, then suddenly be awesome 2 years later?". Then someone brought over 5YIALT, and I discovered this other dude inbetween called Derek, and I was relieved that JR's record was untarnished. True story.
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Great keyboardist, I like his playing on ACOS and FII very much.
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He was good on FII, but his live playing was awful IMO. And I think he didn´t have much to add to the band had he continued with them.
KM and JR are superior in every aspect.
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I loved what he added to DT.
rumborak
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I liked what he did, and I think he was a great keyboard player. I do not think he was what DT needed though.
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He was good on FII, but his live playing was awful IMO. And I think he didn´t have much to add to the band had he continued with them.
KM and JR are superior in every aspect.
:tup Correct with all of this.
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Derek Sheriainiain
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I loved his playing. Even though Kevin Moore is my favorite DT keyboardist, Sherinian had my favorite keyboard lead ("Lines in the Sand") and my favorite DT keyboard solo ("Trial of Tears"), so I gotta give him mad props for that. :tup :tup
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I liked his sound the best of any of DT's keyboardists.
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I liked his sound the best of any of DT's keyboardists.
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He is so talented musician and he did awesome works in DT; Can't deny the awesomeness of Trial Of Tears and Lines In The Sand.
Respectable :hefdaddy
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Respectable :hefdaddy
Awesome. We bow down to merely respectable work these days.
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I wouldn't be surprised if serox meant to use the word "respect", which has a whole different connotation.
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Awesome player, and he did some great things with DT ... but in the end, he wasn't the right guy. Jordan was the right guy; all they've done with him proves that.
I think being with DT helped Derek become a better musician (he even said something like this himself on the Score doc).
By contrast, I think JR helped the rest of DT become an even more awesome band.
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His work in ACOS was really good.
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He's my favorite keyboard player ever! I love this tone, and love his solo stuff. I personally think his solo stuff is way better than what he does with Planet X (no offense to any of the PX fans). I'd rather listen to his solo stuff than PX. I like how he writes with guitars in mind....
Anyways, DS rules!
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Great keyboardist, I like his playing on ACOS and FII very much.
I loved what he added to DT.
+ his live playing, very fun and flamboyant guy.
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Awesome player, and he did some great things with DT ... but in the end, he wasn't the right guy. Jordan was the right guy; all they've done with him proves that.
I think being with DT helped Derek become a better musician (he even said something like this himself on the Score doc).
By contrast, I think JR helped the rest of DT become an even more awesome band.
Mostly this. The "right guy" thing has been debated forever, and will still be undecided when the Earth is cold and grey.
Had they kept Derek, it would have been a very different band, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. A Change of Seasons and Falling Into Infinity are two of my favorite DT albums, so whatever came next, with Derek a bit more fully integrated into the songwriting and sound of the band, it could have been really great. We would've missed out on some of the great stuff they've done with Jordan, but in this hypothetical alternate reality, we'd never know that.
People who say "easily the worst" or "easily the weakest"... okay, maybe. But look at the competition. People still cry about Kevin Moore leaving, all these years later, and Jordan definitely has the greatest chops. How he chooses to apply them is still subject of much debate, though most would agree it's gotten better. Black Clouds & Silver Linings has much more a feel of actual playing and composition and less total wankery.
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He's my favorite keyboard player ever! I love this tone, and love his solo stuff. I personally think his solo stuff is way better than what he does with Planet X (no offense to any of the PX fans). I'd rather listen to his solo stuff than PX. I like how he writes with guitars in mind....
Anyways, DS rules!
Derek? Derek, is that you??
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He's my favorite keyboard player ever! I love this tone, and love his solo stuff. I personally think his solo stuff is way better than what he does with Planet X (no offense to any of the PX fans). I'd rather listen to his solo stuff than PX. I like how he writes with guitars in mind....
Anyways, DS rules!
Derek? Derek, is that you??
NO, He is KEVIN MOORE
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He's my favorite keyboard player ever! I love this tone, and love his solo stuff. I personally think his solo stuff is way better than what he does with Planet X (no offense to any of the PX fans). I'd rather listen to his solo stuff than PX. I like how he writes with guitars in mind....
Anyways, DS rules!
Derek? Derek, is that you??
NO, He is KEVIN MOORE
LOL
I wish I was Derek. Would love to have his talent and equipment.
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I'm glad he got kicked out of DT. We have that to thank for Planet X :D
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OIALT is an awesome live album. Derek improved a lot during his time with DT. And when it comes to live playing, I think he totally owned Kevin. He also owned Jordan Rudess on the "when dream and day re-unite" cd/dvd. But overall I think Jordan is much better. What's cool with Derek is that he knew how to take a step back and leave some room to the guitar, unlike Jordan who's always trying to be the 2nd rythmn guitar player.
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OIALT is an awesome live album.
And when it comes to live playing, I think he totally owned Kevin.
He also owned Jordan Rudess on the "when dream and day re-unite" cd/dvd.
What's cool with Derek is that he knew how to take a step back and leave some room to the guitar, unlike Jordan who's always trying to be the 2nd rythmn guitar player.
I regard all those statments as factually incorrect.
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OIALT is an awesome live album.
And when it comes to live playing, I think he totally owned Kevin.
He also owned Jordan Rudess on the "when dream and day re-unite" cd/dvd.
What's cool with Derek is that he knew how to take a step back and leave some room to the guitar, unlike Jordan who's always trying to be the 2nd rythmn guitar player.
I regard all those statments as factually incorrect.
Agreed.
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OIALT is an awesome live album.
And when it comes to live playing, I think he totally owned Kevin.
He also owned Jordan Rudess on the "when dream and day re-unite" cd/dvd.
What's cool with Derek is that he knew how to take a step back and leave some room to the guitar, unlike Jordan who's always trying to be the 2nd rythmn guitar player.
I regard all those statments as factually incorrect.
Agreed.
Seconded.
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we need more derek on this thread :hefdaddy
anyways, i was just listening to acos and trial of tears...awesome keyboard solos and tone!
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What do you think about the new supergroup, feat. Derek Sherinian?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ffTcX6m1Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ffTcX6m1Q)
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He's good, but I think both KM and JR were better. Derek's keyboards are one of the reasons I love Trial of Tears and enjoy Lines in the Sand a lot. I also like his performance on the Japan '95 Bootleg and ACoS.... But I think JR fits better into DT.
BTW It's sad that Nightmare Cinema "disbanded" after he left. I think they'd be awesome if they decided to "regroup" even with Jordan in there.
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What do you think about the new supergroup, feat. Derek Sherinian?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ffTcX6m1Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ffTcX6m1Q)
Though a shell of his former self, hearing Glenn Hughes sing always makes me happy. Pretty cool song, as well. Not much of a part for DS, though.
As for the OT, I'd much rather listen to DS than Rudess. I think JR has some of the finest chops on the face of the Earth. The impromptu solo at Downey earned him God status in my book. Sherinian plays with so much more heart, though. The man just always seemed much more interested in jamming than demonstrating technical prowess. Somebody mentioned him using the Hammand patch too much. That's one of the things I really liked about him. There's something organic about a good B3 sound; it just screams out to be played.
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El Barto, I love you.
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A Derek Sherinian thread with no mention of his work on Just Let Me Breathe... :tdwn
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I wish DT had kept him around longer. He may not outdo Rudess in technical wizardry, but DT doesn't need more technical wizardry. They need other things. Stuff that only Sherinian (and Moore - yep, I said it) can provide.
Oh well.
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I would really have loved another album with Sherinian.
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I think that if DT gave him more time to show what he is capable of, and given some independece from the record company, i'm sure that DT would make a great record.
What i like about DS, is that he plays with emotion, and gives some "breathing space" for the bass and the guitar, in contrast with JR who doubles the riffs most of the time...
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I would really have loved another album with Sherinian.
Same here. I like plenty of Jordan's parts in modern DT (BF piano solo, for instance), but Sherinian just fit insanely well into 90s DT. Now it seems Rudess is prominent, but doesn't always seem to fit, especially in metal songs.
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Derek back in the day seemed to have an influence on DT MP and JP didn't know how to deal with. I think DS could have injected DT with that exact "heart" they're sometimes missing these days.
But, I also doubt MP would have been able to rein him in like he does these days with the members of DT.
rumborak
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He was awesome in DT, and although I love the majority of Rudess-era DT music, I would have loved to see more of him with the band.
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I also doubt MP would have been able to rein him in like he does these days with the members of DT.
I agree. That's why I would have loved to see another album with him. It would have been interesting - a little creative tension works for lots of bands.
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I'm definitely a fan of DS. He's a talented player with a really enjoyable playing style, and he seems like a good guy.
Though I like JR, and definitely think he has done great things with DT, it would have been very interesting to have heard another album with DS.
What do you think about the new supergroup, feat. Derek Sherinian?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ffTcX6m1Q
Pretty good stuff. Also, does the guitar part at 3:40 to about 4:12 or so remind anyone else of Learning To Live?
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The best keyboard player I've worked with so far. :)
I liked him in DT, except he used the Hammond Organ patch way too much
I thought the same at the time. Funny in retrospect, because now his great taste (and
variety) when it comes to keyboard sounds is a big reason why he's one of my faves. :)
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i personally dont have a favorite keyboard player in DT however his lead tone and his solos are still my favorite.. i personally dislike jordan's tone and his solos most of the time do absolutely nothing for me.. but that doesnt take away from what JR has brought this band because everything else he has brought to this band is amazing.. i cant rly say if DS would have really added any flare or personality to DTs music but regardless hes an amazing keyboard playerand i love FII and aCoS
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A Derek Sherinian thread with no mention of his work on Just Let Me Breathe... :tdwn
I was just listening to this song a couple of days ago and was thinking about how cool his parts are in it.
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I agree. I love his lead during the chorus.
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As for the OT, I'd much rather listen to DS than Rudess. I think JR has some of the finest chops on the face of the Earth. The impromptu solo at Downey earned him God status in my book. Sherinian plays with so much more heart, though. The man just always seemed much more interested in jamming than demonstrating technical prowess. Somebody mentioned him using the Hammand patch too much. That's one of the things I really liked about him. There's something organic about a good B3 sound; it just screams out to be played.
Hell yeah! It's hard to beat a hammond organ. :tup :tup
a little creative tension works for lots of bands.
QFT.
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I would really have loved another album with Sherinian.
Agreed. Honestly, I like DS and KM's playing better than JR. JR is a better technical keyboardist, but I just prefer the soul in DS's playing more, and on KM, I prefer his sense of atmosphere. JR is a wizard, but while a technical genius, he lacks qualities from DS and KM that I find more appealing than technicality.
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For me it's Jordan>Derek>>>>>>>>>>>Kevin.
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Derek is by far my favorite DT keyboardist. As mentioned before, his playing has a lot of soul. It's a shame they didn't have him on for another album. That'd have been pretty interesting to hear.
I really like JR too, but I'm liking him less and less with each album.
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For me it's Jordan>Derek>>>>>>>>>>>Kevin.
Same.
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DS really shows off his chops, and not only his heart and soul in ACOS, imo.
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DS really shows off his chops, and not only his heart and soul in ACOS, imo.
While this is true beyound any reasonable doubt, I think his actual creative input in the song was very limited. You can tell this just comparing the keyboard parts with FII's, the difference is macroscopic.
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DS really shows off his chops, and not only his heart and soul in ACOS, imo.
How deep into the forum did you delve just to post this?
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I dig his style. He was the Eddie Van Halen to Jordan Rudess's Steve Vai.
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As for the OT, I'd much rather listen to DS than Rudess. I think JR has some of the finest chops on the face of the Earth. The impromptu solo at Downey earned him God status in my book. Sherinian plays with so much more heart, though. The man just always seemed much more interested in jamming than demonstrating technical prowess. Somebody mentioned him using the Hammand patch too much. That's one of the things I really liked about him. There's something organic about a good B3 sound; it just screams out to be played.
Hell yeah! It's hard to beat a hammond organ. :tup :tup
Agreed; the Hammond organ is my favorite instrument and it's the very best thing Derek has got going for him(it was so good to see the big, burly beast on PSMS). That said, I hated his distorted lead sound so much that I really don't mind he didn't stick around for more.
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I'm thinking of picking up Oceana, what do you guys think about it?
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I'm thinking of picking up Oceana, what do you guys think about it?
I second this question. I should definitely get into his solo works.
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I'm thinking of picking up Oceana, what do you guys think about it?
I second this question. I should definitely get into his solo works.
I love it. I still need to give it a couple more listens. It is very fusion influenced, which for me, was a nice surprise but could be a letdown to someone looking for a heavier album. (Not to say that it does not have its harder songs) Some great playing by Derek and by all the guest players on the album. An enjoyable listen.
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I have a bunch of his solo stuff, and I like all of it. Planet X, Inertia, Black Utopia, Mythology, Quantum, Molecular Heinosity, and Oceana. They all rock. I'm trying to remember which one... I think it's Inertia or one of the other early ones... where most tracks fade out and it gets to be annoying after a while. The playing itself is great, and all of them. I just have a thing for songs that actually end, especially instrumentals. One or two songs per album can fade, maybe, if that's appropriate to the groove, but I don't like feeling like they didn't know how to end the song so they copped out.
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I'm thinking of picking up Oceana, what do you guys think about it?
Its the only DS solo album that I have (other than Planet X's Quantum and the BCC stuff) and I really like it a lot. I love fusion so its right up my alley.
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OIALT is an awesome live album.
And when it comes to live playing, I think he totally owned Kevin.
He also owned Jordan Rudess on the "when dream and day re-unite" cd/dvd.
What's cool with Derek is that he knew how to take a step back and leave some room to the guitar, unlike Jordan who's always trying to be the 2nd rythmn guitar player.
I regard all those statments as factually incorrect.
+1
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OIALT is an awesome live album.
And when it comes to live playing, I think he totally owned Kevin.
He also owned Jordan Rudess on the "when dream and day re-unite" cd/dvd.
What's cool with Derek is that he knew how to take a step back and leave some room to the guitar, unlike Jordan who's always trying to be the 2nd rythmn guitar player.
I regard all those statments as factually incorrect.
+1
Well I agree that he "owned" Kevin live and I agree with the last statement.
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Too bad. He started so good with the first two statements... :lol
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Hi Everyone,
I followed DT a ton from about 1992-2002 (in terms of going to a LOT of shows, the ytsejam mailing list, trading boots on audio cassette, being listed on the original DT FAQ as a contributor, etc.).
So not that I am some DT expert, but I was around a lot during those days ...
I attended the first two shows of the AWAKE tour in 1994 including Derek's DEBUT gig with DT
in Providence. I remember being floored when we all found out that Kevin was leaving the band.
Everyone feared that it could mean the end of DT ...(just when things were getting great!!) ...
So after the Providence gig I hung out with my friend on the side of the venue waiting for the members of DT to come out to the bus or van or whatever it was.... (I was a Petrucci fanboy bigtime in those days) ...Derek was one of the first to come out to talk to us. I ended up having a solid 30 minute conversation with him. His comments mirrored what he said in the 2005 20th anniversary that the music was so different than what he was used to. I remember he said that learning the parts to Caught in a Web took forever .... I also (stupidly) asked him if they would be playing Scarred on this tour (as it was the greatest song in the history of the world). He didn't know the tune (having taken the gig as essentially a touring "side man" on keyboard -- wasn't required to know the entire DT universe like the rest of us did) ..... He asked me if Scarred was a good tune - and I said YES YES YES! (not sure if they ever ended up playing it live!).
I think the eventual hiring of DS as a full-time member was partially because he was a good personality fit with the band and part because of his street cred (Kiss, Alice Cooper) and pop
sensibility at a time when management / label was pushing DT to be more commercial ... (ie: bringing in Desmond Child to help with songwriting, etc.) ... And on balance DT probably saw DS as a fair compromise to choosing keyboard player from the group called "Everyone on earth besides Jordan Rudess" .... Don't forget that DT auditioned many players after Kevin left the band - jordan included...and they even played a half-gig at the Foundation Forum event in CA WITH JORDAN (this is pre Sherinian) .... In the end, for whatever reason (probably $$$ and schedule), jordan decided to stay with the Dixie Dregs ..... I can remember most everyone on the mailing list being completely stoked about the possbility of Jordan then joining the band (in 94)....and being so disappointed when he declined the invite .....
So DS, for as talented as he is, was always DT's 2nd choice for the position ...
As soon as the first LTE album came out and John and Mike had another chance to work with Jordan in the studio the writing was on the wall...Derek's time was finished ...
I think most all of us had grown to like and appreciate DS as a player and as a person (as much as you an get to know a person in a band from afar) .... Some were sad, some were ecstatic, but I think everyone was completely psyched to finally have Jordan R. in the fold as a full time member of DT ...
It does kind of make you wonder though if JR initially saw DT as a job that wasn't going to pay enough $$$ or be worth it -- and what happened to change his opinion in the intervening years between 1994 and 1998. That being said, I love JR...
Sorry if this is rambling - I am writing this while dealing every 30 seconds with a crying 5 year old!
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And to answer the actual question posed in this thread (as opposed to my rambling above).
I loved Derek's work in DT. For what they were trying to accomplish with FII, DS was a great choice at the time.
I am also naturally a big fan of Kevin. But how can anyone compete with the sheer wizardry, mastery and chops of Jordan Rudess? The man is a virtuoso - there is no other like him..... To me, he is the ultimate DT Keyboard player.
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I don't know. It's a bit like setting up a good basketball team. Having a whole team full of huge players sounds good on paper, but then you find out that each player approaches the game the same exact way. The homogeneity that JR (and now MM) bought them really locks them hard into their current style. I doubt we'll see any significant advances in their style in the future.
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I don't know. It's a bit like setting up a good basketball team. Having a whole team full of huge players sounds good on paper, but then you find out that each player approaches the game the same exact way. The homogeneity that JR (and now MM) bought them really locks them hard into their current style. I doubt we'll see any significant advances in their style in the future.
Great post. :tup
I completely agree with you, i've always said that some "creative conflict" does good to a band's sound. That is why i believe KM was the best DT keyboardist, he was not exactly on the same page with the others in terms of musicality, and that provided an interesting dynamic.
And that is why i hoped they would take someone who would give a different edge to the band when Mike left, and specifically Virgil.
Of course MM is a great guy and incredible player, it just seems that they will continue to play it safe musical wise.
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In the end, for whatever reason (probably $$$ and schedule), jordan decided to stay with the Dixie Dregs ..... I can remember most everyone on the mailing list being completely stoked about the possbility of Jordan then joining the band (in 94)....and being so disappointed when he declined the invite .....
<snip>
It does kind of make you wonder though if JR initially saw DT as a job that wasn't going to pay enough $$$ or be worth it -- and what happened to change his opinion in the intervening years between 1994 and 1998.
With his family situation, Jordan didn't want to embark on the extensive DT world tour at that time. I don't think it was money that was an issue, but just that the Dregs schedule fit better with his family life at that point in time, something you can perhaps appreciate if you have a 5-year-old child to look after.
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Awesome player that have awesome unique style, both musically and visually. What he added to DT was superior, love the guy!