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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Orbert on January 21, 2013, 10:43:14 PM
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Welcome back, my friends, to Orbert's Discography series. Ladies and Gentleman...
Emerson Lake & Palmer (1970)
(https://i.imgur.com/xvO6PTr.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/PEbyNoS.jpg)
(click for larger view)
Keith Emerson - Keyboards
Greg Lake - Vocals, Guitar, Bass
Carl Palmer - Drums, Percussion
The Barbarian
Take a Pebble
Knife-Edge
The Three Fates
a. Clotho
b. Lachesis
c. Atropos
Tank
Lucky Man
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Let's get one thing clear: There are no commas in the name of this band. There is no Oxford comma, and there is no comma between "Emerson" and "Lake". Look at the cover. Do you see any commas? No, you don't, because there aren't any. Go to the band's official website (https://www.emersonlakepalmer.com/index.html) and read what it says across the top of the Home Page: "EMERSON LAKE & PALMER". The name of the band is almost, but not quite, a proper listing of the names of its three members. I'm glad we have that straightened out. I'm sorry I have to take this tone of voice with you, but this is important. The Internet: Serious Business.
The Nice were a four-piece English band in the late 60's, and Keith Emerson was the keyboard player. He was pretty much insane, although to be fair, so were the rest of the band. Their music was a bizarre blend of rock, jazz, blues, classical, and everything else they could work in, from Bach to Brubeck. During his solos, Emerson would wrestle with his Hammond organ, flip it around on stage, simulate sex with it, and stick knives into the keyboard (it was quite theatrical, but actually served a purpose: it held down certain notes while he continued to abuse the instrument). He set fire to things on stage. He became known as "the Hendrix of the keyboards". Their singer was not very good, however, and after four albums in three years, Emerson felt that the band had gone about as far as they could, and he was thinking of leaving.
King Crimson's debut album In the Court of the Crimson King sold more copies than The Nice's entire catalogue, and featured a brilliant young singer named Greg Lake. Greg Lake and Robert Fripp grew up together and had the same guitar teacher, so when Fripp put King Crimson together, Lake played bass. Lake's first love was singing, but his second was playing guitar, and he couldn't do that in King Crimson. It would be over 10 years and several lineups until King Crimson had room for a second guitar player.
Carl Palmer was only 19 years old, but he had already played on a hit record, "Fire!" by The Crazy World of Arthur Brown. Arthur Brown had a somewhat different career trajectory in mind than most would assume a band would take after their first hit record, and it would be several years before their first album. Meanwhile, they played the underground circuit. Carl Palmer left that band and helped form Atomic Rooster, and thus was not looking for a new gig.
The Nice and King Crimson played a lot of the same venues and even shared the bill a number of times, and Keith Emerson ended up talking with Greg Lake about forming a new band. It would be a trio, with plenty of room for everyone. Emerson would of course play keyboards, which meant Lake would play bass much of the time, but Emerson, a classically trained pianist and organist, had no trouble providing a bass line with the keyboards so Lake could play guitar. All they needed was a drummer. They convinced Carl Palmer to join them for a jam, even though he was not looking to leave Atomic Rooster. After playing with Emerson and Lake, he decided to leave Atomic Rooster. The name of the band would simply be the names of its members in alphabetical order (without a comma) and ELP was born.
Emerson Lake & Palmer opens with an instrumental, "The Barbarian". Heavily distorted guitar, then the drums and organ come in with a heavy, plodding beat evoking a powerful, lumbering hulk of a man, a barbarian. It is essentially a rock treatment of "Allegro Barbaro", a piano piece by Bela Bartok. The break is an acoustic piano solo. So right away, this was different music.
Completely changing the mood, Greg Lake's "Take a Pebble" is mostly acoustic guitar and piano, and Lake's clear, lyrical voice. At 12 1/2 minutes, it is the longest track on the album. After the second verse is the first piano solo, accompanied by bass and drums, based on a variation of the verse. Then there is a quiet section featuring acoustic guitar and the sounds of someone tossing pebbles into the water. The guitar works its way into a two-step pattern, accompanied by some handclaps, and eventually reaching a climax. Then a second, longer piano solo follows, and eventually the third verse arrives in a very dramatic fashion, featuring cymbal crashes and tympani, but other than the bass, it's all acoustic.
"Knife-Edge" is another band composition, but again, during the break, Emerson brings in some classical, this time a Bach organ prelude.
Emerson's "The Three Fates" opens Side Two of the original LP. Based on The Three Fates from mythology, "Clotho" is performed on a pipe organ, "Lachesis" is an acoustic piano solo, and "Atropos" is piano, bass, and drums, a jazz trio playing classical variations in a rock format. This is a very heavy, experimental track, with moments of brilliance, and all of it basically the guys seeing how far they can take things.
"Tank" is an Emerson/Palmer composition, another instrumental, with Palmer's drum solo bridging the two parts. It's an up-tempo piece featuring virtuoso playing by all three members.
"Lucky Man", the closing song, was released as the single. It became a hit in both the U.K. and the U.S. It has some percussion and multiple tracks of voices and guitars, and Lake insisted the Emerson add something. Emerson had just taken delivery of his first Moog synthesizer, so he noodled up a solo to end the song. Lake loved it and they kept the take. Emerson referred to his solo as "a lot of shit, actually".
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In 1976, I was in junior high. I had a job making minimum wage, and pretty much all of my money was spent on records, snack food, and various things to smoke. I joined the RCA Record Club, which sent me a catalogue every month of the latest offerrings. There would be a little picture of each album cover and a little description. I learned later that these "clubs" were basically clearinghouses for surplus albums, but I didn't care. Cheap records, lots of new music to check out.
What caught my attention was "Welcome Back, My Friends, to the Show that Never Ends, Ladies and Gentlemen... Emerson Lake & Palmer. Lucky Man, Karn Evil 9 (35 minute version), etc. (3 records)"
The title of the album was so long that that's all they had room to write in the space for that album. Oh, and the price, which was the same as a single LP. Now, I remember hearing "Lucky Man" on the radio a few years back. It was an acoustic guitar song with nice vocals, kinda like Crosby, Stills, and Nash. Ah, I see! ELP are a folk band, like CSN. But what's with the 35-minute song? Holy crap. I'd never heard of a song that long before. But I was ordering it anyway; a triple live album for the price of a regular single LP was too good a deal to pass up.
:omg: My mind was blown. This was not an acoustic folk band. My musical horizons, which were actually pretty broad for a junior high kid, since I'd cut my teeth on Chicago's four-record live album Chicago at Carnegie Hall, were broadened another couple of sizes. Also, I was a pianist and aspiring keyboard player. I'd recently joined my first band and bought my first electric piano. And here was keyboard-based rock and roll. And it was totally insane! A triple live album with seven songs total. Can you even do that?
I have to believe that a lot of people's experience with Emerson Lake & Palmer was similar. They heard "Lucky Man" on the radio, and they went and bought the album. I'm sure some people had no idea what to think, many probably tossed it out, but there would be a certain number of people whose minds and ears got expanded by it. This is not an album for the meek. This is insane, classical-jazz-art-rock. The word "progressive" hadn't been invented yet, let alone shortened to "prog". I heard it called "classical rock" because it had a lot of classical in it, and "art rock" because... well, because it wasn't normal rock, so it must've been "artsy" or something.
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Finally!!!!!! :biggrin:
I remember when I first got into ELP about 20 years ago. My intro to them was Black Moon, but then I got the Atlantic Years double CD from Columbia House as part of that 6 CDs for a penny deal, and the song from the first album that immediately grabbed me was Take a Pebble. I could not believe how incredible that song was. If my memory serves me correctly, it was the first 10 minute plus song not by Pink Floyd or Rush that I went totally bonkers over. I recognized Lucky Man from classic rock radio, and Tank and Knife-edge were both tunes I dug a lot as well.
It took me a while to get around to eventually the whole first album on CD, but when I did, I was blown away by The Barbarian and The Three Fates, the two songs from it not on that Atlantic Years compilation set. In many ways, ELP's debut is an album that never topped, or even equaled. For my money, it is their best and most consistent record.
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I really enjoy this album, it's a lot of fun. I still prefer Brain Salad Surgery, but this is great as well. A strong debut.
If this turns into a whole ELP thread, will you cover ELPowell?
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*Looks at listing in iTunes*
Mr. Orbert, mine is listed with a comma--*SLAP!*
Orbert: Get out! Out out out!
:P
Hooray for a new thread! I have all the albums by these guys too! So this one should be fun! ...Except for Love Beach, which will just be funny.
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Hah, my first reaction as well. :lol
Other than changing the album and artist's titles in my foobar, I'll comment later after I've had a proper relisten of this.
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Oh great! Since I've barely listened to ELP I'll be following this thread and give each album a thorough spin as it's being discussed.
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I really like this album. It's totally over the top, and I love that.
I remember hearing Knife Edge for the first time, and realising that the riff I'd been playing for about six months had already been done (ie. it's the Knife Edge one) so I was a bit miffed, but hell, I love the song, so it's all cool. I find that Lake has a very doom laden quality to his voice on the heavier songs on this record (and also on much of his Crimson stuff), which I think is really neat, and pretty chilling too.
All in all, I love it.
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(https://i.imgur.com/VdPpU4j.jpg)
That is to say, I'm following. Will listen a few times today, likely in the car despite this commemorative photo op. Should have some thoughts gathered by the end of the day.
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PC, you are awesome. I love that little phonograph. I too got my copy of the LP out last night, though that was to check some things out. I was right; "Knife-Edge" is hyphenated. Usually it's not when listed online. Also, "Lachesis" is actually spelled wrong on ELP's official website (and "Knife-Edge" is missing the hyphen). Yes, I'm anal about stuff like that, but come on, it's the official band website; you'd think they'd at least proofread it.
Wow, looks like we're gonna have some good participation. Six replies already, and I only posted last night.
Finally!!!!!! :biggrin:
Yeah, yeah. ;) I've been busy.
If this turns into a whole ELP thread, will you cover ELPowell?
I'm currently trying to hunt down a copy of Emerson, Lake and Powell, and also 3 to the Power of Three. I'd like to include them both in the discussion at least, and give them each a proper write-up if I can.
I tried to make it obvious that my "comma" obsession is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but also kinda serious. A lot of band names are clever, intentional misspellings of words, and while English teachers may cringe, I've always felt that the way the band spells it is the "right" way, end of discussion. Crosby, Stills and Nash has a comma; Emerson Lake & Palmer does not. It's on every album cover that way. Sure it's written incorrectly a lot, in publications and online, probably more than it's actually written correctly. But "accepted" still doesn't equal "correct".
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(https://gyazo.com/88e62555a77b1a9d87a1d25e0483e28a.png)
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OK, I've had some time to listen, and here's what I'm thinking:
First off, I probably listen to this self-titled record less than I listen to any of what I'll refer to as the "big 5" ELP albums that I really enjoy. It should be easy enough to guess what those are :P
Secondly, until clicking on the image Orbert provided and enlarging it, I never noticed that the outline of a profiled head can be seen beneath the wing of the bird on the cover. Cool effect. For some reason, my LP version is just a slip-case, so there's no option of folding out the art to see the whole picture.
Now, for the music itself. Most of what I consider to be the elements necessary for good ELP are here: there's the fusion of diverting influences among the members represented, though not as formulaically focused as it'd be on later albums. There's also lots of "classic" rock, and more than apt musicality and technicality to go with it. Lake also sounds really good vocally, and his unique sense of melody and delivery is already fully developed here.
Still, I feel like this album is missing something that the rest of ELP's 70's albums have. While the album is still gritty and aggressive, it also lacks a certain bombastic and thematic element, even despite all of influences it has in Classical Music. The compositions on self-titled also seem to be less in-your-face, less gloriously self-righteous, and less anthemic. Also, Lake's acoustic song is here, though his fascination with Copland and the Wild West is not.
Overall, very solid debut album that established ELP as a no-holds-barred kind of progressive band while still leaving plenty of creative place for them to develop. I still listen to this far less than "Brain Salad Surgery", "Trilogy", "Tarkus", and "Pictures at an Exhibition", but I'm sure we'll get around to talking about those.
PC, you are awesome. I love that little phonograph. I too got my copy of the LP out last night, though that was to check some things out. I was right; "Knife-Edge" is hyphenated. Usually it's not when listed online. Also, "Lachesis" is actually spelled wrong on ELP's official website (and "Knife-Edge" is missing the hyphen). Yes, I'm anal about stuff like that, but come on, it's the official band website; you'd think they'd at least proofread it.
Thanks. It's not a great phono, but it takes up zero space, can be safely packaged away, and can be hooked up to outside speakers that make it seem half-decent. It's perfect for me now, until I have the space to get a proper turntable. I have vinyl LPs of 5 LP studio albums and "Welcome Back My Friends..." so I'll be giving those a listen for comparison, too, if I have time.
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Of the better known prog bands of the 70s, I rate ELP behind Genesis and Yes in terms of my favorites, and ahead of King Crimson. Other than liking their music, though, I don't really have the emotional connection to ELP's music that I do with Genesis and Yes; I arrived at ELP after getting into Genesis and Yes, and did it almost out of a sense of obligation to the prog genre. I will say, though, without hesitation that while I like those two bands more, my favorite 70s prog album ever is Brain Salad Surgery, so it isn't like I half assed my liking of ELP. :lol
I bought the debut album at a yard sale-as I mentioned in the Genesis thread, it had an inner sleeve that may or may not have been the one it was issued with, featuring pictures of lots of older albums on it, including Selling England By The Pound-and initially was less than impressed with it. The two instrumentals leaped out at me originally of the songs on the album-Take A Pebble just drifted a little too much, Lucky Man really only stood out because of Emerson going mad on the synth at the end-but time has been kinder to this album for me. It's not quite as bombastic and over the top as ELP would become, but it's coming.
I have to admit, much as with the Yes thread and Tormato, and the Genesis thread and Invisible Touch, I'm waiting with a grin on my face for the commentary on Love Beach. I suspect that's going to be fun.
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If this turns into a whole ELP thread, will you cover ELPowell?
I'm currently trying to hunt down a copy of Emerson, Lake and Powell.
I have Emerson Lake and Powell on vinyl. It's a really great album. Especially Touch and Go
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Of the better known prog bands of the 70s, I rate ELP behind Genesis and Yes in terms of my favorites, and ahead of King Crimson. Other than liking their music, though, I don't really have the emotional connection to ELP's music that I do with Genesis and Yes; I arrived at ELP after getting into Genesis and Yes, and did it almost out of a sense of obligation to the prog genre.
This is almost exactly how I feel about ELP. I *love* Yes and Genesis, without a doubt. After I got into Rush and Dream Theater, then went back to discover the roots of 70's prog, those two were the ones I got into first. Then I got ELP and King Crimson, as you said, because of some sense of obligation to that era. KC and ELP were two more of the "Big 5" prog bands of the time (generally speaking, some would include Jethro Tull as the 5th, while others include Pink Floyd, which is what I would include).
Anyways, ELP never TRULY clicked with me in the same way that Yes and Genesis did. It wasn't because they were a trio whereas Yes and Genesis were fuller 5-piece bands (I mean Rush is a trio and they're my favorite band), nor was it that they didn't have a large enough catalog of 70's albums - they had quite a fair amount of albums in the 70's as well as an amazing live album, which was key for Genesis (Seconds Out) and Yes (Yessongs).
I can't really pinpoint why I never attached to them, but I do enjoy their music. Maybe it was a bit TOO out there for me, with their often bombastic arrangements and sounds, their use of classical motifs and themes, or maybe just their over-all sound. However, because of this thread, I am revisiting ELP with open ears and, perhaps to my surprise, I will find more than I did before. So I am off to listen to their debut, and I shall return with my thoughts...
-Marc.
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Other than Brain Salad Surgery, I always approached ELP's music at a reserve-I appreciated what they did technically, but it rarely moved me emotionally, and I've never been able to figure out why. Maybe I'll figure it out with this thread.
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Other than Brain Salad Surgery, I always approached ELP's music at a reserve-I appreciated what they did technically, but it rarely moved me emotionally, and I've never been able to figure out why. Maybe I'll figure it out with this thread.
Also my feelings - I LOVE BSS, the opening two tracks are great, and the epic "Karn Evil 9" always wow'ed me. Then the live versions on Welcome Back My Friends were even better, and heck, even the whole album is amazing. I do enjoy "Tarkus" every now and then, but BSS is usually the only ELP album I'll listen to, then WBMF... but that's about it.
In contrast, I could put on any Yes or Genesis album at any time and feel great about my choice. I always felt like I needed to force myself to listen to ELP if I wanted to (with the above exceptions).
-Marc.
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Emerson Lake & Palmer were almost doomed to self-destruct from the start, being composed of three raving egomaniacs all trying to show off their awesome chops and various influences as much as possible. Their catalogue is not extensive, and the fact that they lasted as long as they did is actually quite impressive.
ELP works for me perhaps better than they do for others because of my background. I stumbled upon these guys just as I was getting more into music and also into playing keyboards in a band, so just hearing what could be done with keyboards was amazing and eye-opening.
I'm waiting with a grin on my face for the commentary on Love Beach. I suspect that's going to be fun.
I only have it on vinyl, and while I do have a working turntable, I'll have to wait until there's no one else home to do my listening sessions, for various reasons. I've been trying to find a copy online so I can iPod it, but it seems that no one has bothered to (a) buy it on CD and (b) upload it to the net. I don't really blame them, but it makes things more difficult.
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Well I am back again, with thoughts on the first album. Over-all, not bad! I think it's as enjoyable as BSS, it's got some of the signature sounds I expect from ELP - there's heavy bombastic sections, lighter parts with just piano or guitar or both, and there's the ballad of "Lucky Man", which is always fun to listen to.
It's a very balanced album, and a bit "out-there" at times, like the middle section of "Take A Pebble" with the country-esque guitar stomp/clap "whoop!" in there, but these were three guys who were doing their best to show off their skills, often together, sometimes apart and over each other, but it's not a terrible debut. One of the better debuts of 70's prog rock kings.
Each song is fairly different enough from each other, but there is a sense of direction, a sound they were going for, despite also sounding a bit experimental and eclectic at times. I think they would take a few more albums to focus a bit more to the point where they get to BSS and find how to do everything right to give themselves the sounds that, I think, they were looking for.
-Marc.
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ELP works for me perhaps better than they do for others because of my background. I stumbled upon these guys just as I was getting more into music
That is similar to me. I was introduced to them by some friends in the spring/summer of '92 when Black Moon came out. They were going bonkers over their comeback tour, which we all went to that summer, and it was a beast of a show. I then went out and got Black Moon and the Atlantic Years compilation a short time later (winter of '92/'93-ish). They were basically the 4th prog-related band I got into a big way (after Floyd, Moody Blues and then Rush), so I think getting into them fairly early in my development as a music fan helped my appreciation for them. I basically listened to them non-stop for months after getting into them. And I listened to them so much that I eventually burned out on them, especially since, like you said, they didn't have an extensive catalogue, so I was basically listening to the same 3-4 albums over and over and over and over.
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I'm waiting with a grin on my face for the commentary on Love Beach. I suspect that's going to be fun.
I only have it on vinyl, and while I do have a working turntable, I'll have to wait until there's no one else home to do my listening sessions, for various reasons. I've been trying to find a copy online so I can iPod it, but it seems that no one has bothered to (a) buy it on CD and (b) upload it to the net. I don't really blame them, but it makes things more difficult.
If all else fails, Spotify has it. I did find one working link to it on a DDL file sharing site using the power of Google-fu. But only ONE. :lol
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Ah, I always forget about Spotify. Thanks!
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I have Love Beach on CD. lol.
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I just started working through ELP last year, I noticed it wasn't clicking at all when listening to mp3's, so I bought Tarkus on vinyl first, then Welcome Back... and Pictures. And I feel like I'm only scratching the surface. No real goosebump-moments for me, but awesome music nonetheless. And I love Keith Emerson, and his hammond sound most of all.
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I have Love Beach on CD. lol.
As do I, as well as 3 and Emerson Lake & Powell...and Black Moon and In The Hot Seat.
I went crazy when I dove head-first into the big 70's prog bands and got nearly each of their studio albums in their respective discographies, which included Yes, Genesis, ELP, Kansas, King Crimson, and Pink Floyd. Didn't really get through Jethro Tull though, and of those bands, only Yes, Genesis, and King Crimson really sold me on their entire discographies - later parts of Kansas and ELP, and early parts of Pink Floyd didn't really stick.
-Marc.
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The ELP debut is excellent.
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I have Love Beach on CD. lol.
As do I, as well as 3 and Emerson Lake & Powell...and Black Moon and In The Hot Seat.
I went crazy when I dove head-first into the big 70's prog bands and got nearly each of their studio albums in their respective discographies, which included Yes, Genesis, ELP, Kansas, King Crimson, and Pink Floyd. Didn't really get through Jethro Tull though, and of those bands, only Yes, Genesis, and King Crimson really sold me on their entire discographies - later parts of Kansas and ELP, and early parts of Pink Floyd didn't really stick.
-Marc.
I would've guessed that you'd love old Floyd!
I noticed that all of those bands can't really get me on mp3's or on CD. I love Yes on vinyl, I love Genesis on vinyl. But take away the smell of old bookstores and second hand record shops and there isn't much left for me.
Doesn't matter though, it's just that I have to look a bit better to collect those albums.
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I would've guessed that you'd love old Floyd!
I *kind* of enjoy Atom Heart Mother and anything after that (from OBC onward, though I don't spin TFC, AMLOR or TDB very much). I'm pretty predictable when it comes to enjoy Pink Floyd's more well-known albums. I couldn't quite get into the psychedelic stuff very much, so I don't really listen to their first four albums anymore.
-Marc.
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There's no question that this kind of music loses something when it gets compressed to mp3 format. I don't care what the "experts" say.
I recently got the 5.1 editions of the first two albums, and the second side of Tarkus took me completely by surprise. Everyone knows the title suite on Side One, and most people pretty much blow off Side Two. But I listened to it, loud, lossless and in 5.1, and I was blown away. Maybe it's because I heard a lot of stuff I'd never heard before, and maybe it was the power of a freakin' pipe organ unleashed in my living room, but it grabbed me. And I realized that I've been listening to mp3's of this album for years, and vinyl before that, but on my ancient little portable stereo. I'd never really heard it before.
Lossless. There is a difference.
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Been looking for an excuse to get into these guys. Will be listening and following.
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I have no clue why I've never really checked out ELP despite the following:
1) I've actually heard a good bit of their material, never all at once mind you, and enjoyed it everytime.
2) I've always loved Karn Evil 9.
3) Nothing has ever suggested that I wouldn't love them.
I might not be able to keep up with the thread, but I'm going to make an effort.
Also, this thread better contain some Robert Christgau bashing...that's actually one part of ELP's history I am familiar with.
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Great debut album. Don't really care for Lucky Man, but the other songs are great.
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Also, this thread better contain some Robert Christgau bashing...that's actually one part of ELP's history I am familiar with.
The so-called "Dean of American Rock Critics"? Fuck him.
There, bashed. Honestly, I had no intention of even mentioning him.
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Okay. I found high-bitrate mp3s of Love Beach, Emerson, Lake & Powell, 3 to the Power of Three, and In the Hot Seat. My "ELP and Related" studio collection is complete.
Apparently "Works Live" is just a re-issue of "The Return of the Manticore", so I've got that covered. ELP get a bit fragmented and hard to follow towards the end, with all the re-issues and live stuff of dubious authenticity, so I'm just gonna stick with official releases.
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While we're still on the first album, it needs to be mentioned how innovative and ground-breaking the moog solo at the end of Lucky Man was at the time. In fact, I remember Robert Moog himself being amazed at what Keith Emerson did with it in that tune. When the guy who invented an instrument is expressing amazement at what you did with it in a song, well, that's about as high of a compliment as you can receive. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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I didn't realize it was the modular Moog on that solo, until I started doing my research for this discography. In hindsight, it could not have been anything else, as the MiniMoog did not yet exist, and it was called the MiniMoog because it packed most of the useful modules into a single unit. I just never thought about it.
(https://www.musicmusic.nl/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/elp3.jpg)
I want to play one.
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I don't know why, but I've never really been a fan of the Moog solo. I get that it's supposed to be really groundbreaking and all, but it's always seemed hamfisted in to me. But listening to it on the vinyl hooked up to good speakers last night (instead of wimpy car speakers) I did appreciate it a lot more. For one, I realized just how much that synth takes over the entire sound spectrum of the song. Conceptually, it almost makes sense, as a musical parallel to the lyrical theme that something nice can be abruptly and arbitrarily halted by the occurance of a random event that changes everything.
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Emerson himself hated the solo, calling it "a lot of shit, actually" but Lake insisted that he play something. All three of them play on every track at least somewhere, and without the Moog solo, Emerson had nothing. The problem is that he had only had the Moog for a short while, and hadn't learned how to use it.
This is speculation on my part, but what separates a synthesizer from, say, an organ or other electronic keyboard, is the envelopes, filters, and portamento. Emerson therefore came up with a patch that exploited each of these things, showed them off a bit. This was not an organ solo; this was something new and different. I can totally understand him looking back at it in an interview and call it shit, but at the time, it was pretty awesome. That's a big, fat sound he's got there. Today's digital synths still don't sound as good as an analog synth in the hands of someone who knows how to use one.
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Totally true. The sound is awesome, the effects are great too, the choice of notes is just a bit submissive to the sound. Although I can understand that Emerson himself isn't pleased. You can have a great sound, have great effects ánd play great notes too.
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I knew this was going to happen sooner or later. I won't be able to give this thread the attention it rightly deserves, but I'll give it a shot.
I love this band. I first got into them in 1980 when the Islanders used Fanfare For The Common Man as the intro to its telecasts during the Stanley Cup years and I was smitten and bought Works Volume I.
Within four years I had everything. I'd rate them higher than Yes and Genesis (at least Gabriel Genesis) although they are amazing also.
I don't have the new reissue of the first album yet, but I love it. I think I have the Sanctuary signature pressing. (Although over the years I've gotten and resold more of those reissues more times than I'd like to admit. (First there was the intitial Atlantic pressings followed by Victory, Rhino, Santuary, Castle, Sony and who knows how many more now.)
For those who love ELP, you should really check out the Nice which are very underated even though they didn't last very long. I think there albums and live performances are almost as legendary as ELPs.
I've often wondered what would have happened if Hendrix and Emerson ever got together as had been speculated back then.
Was not a fan of Lucky Man. Supposedly they needed one more song for the album and Greg Lake brought in that song (Lucky Man) which he had written in some form when he was 13.
Are you going to review the Isle of Weight performance which was the second time they performed as a band?
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I've been reading up on ELP with the launch of this thread, and I've actually read that Lucky Man wasn't actually recorded at the last minute in order to fill out a contractually obligated 21 minutes per side; it was one of the earliest songs recorded in the session that produced this album according to the session notes. So that's actually an uban legend that's taken on a life of its own-to the point that All Music's review of the song itself repeats the story. But it's a GREAT story.
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Where did you read that, Jaq? It is a good story, but I can't have it in the writeup if it's not true.
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Hmmm, this might be one of those "You can't believe everything you read on the internet" situations, because I am 99% sure I saw an interview with the band a long time ago where they briefly talked about how Lucky Man was a last minute throw-on to the debut record. I can't remember where or when, just that I remember seeing it.
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The funny thing is, now I can't find where I found it other than Wikipedia, but I know I read it somewhere else! Maybe it's something that's taken on such a life of its own even the band remembers it that way...or I'm full of shit :lol
Ah ha! I found this:
"Although the story behind the recording of LUCKY MAN is that the song was recorded at the end of the ELP debut album sessions, this might not be true. According to the liner notes in the ELP box set "Return To Manticore," the album was recorded from July to September 1970 (on either side of their appearance at the Isle of Wight Festival). The liner notes states that LUCKY MAN being recorded at the July session (wheras "Knife Edge" and "Three Fates" from the album were recorded in September). Either the liner notes are incorrect, or the truth is that LUCKY MAN was not a last-minute leftover for the album after all!!"
It's a comment on this page:
https://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=3661
Knew I read it somewhere other than Wiki.
And the source for what I read on Wiki is:
https://northcyprusfreepress.com/entertainment/top-100-rock-songs/top-100-rock-songs-emerson-lake-and-palmer-lucky-man/
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Argh. You know, I had never actually heard/read that story until I was researching the album, and I thought it was interesting enough to include. Upon closer inspection, it doesn't actually make much sense, because one of the reasons Greg Lake left King Crimson was because he considered himself primarily and singer/songwriter/guitarist, and he would only be able fulfill one, maybe two, of those aspirations in King Crimson.
The part that doesn't make sense is where he doesn't have a bunch of songs he's written over the years, just waiting for a chance to record them with someone. And if he did, why pull out one he wrote when he was a kid? He'd have other songs he's written since then which he'd be more fond of and/or consider more appropriate for the debut album. I know that a lot of people think the lyrics are pretty bad/simple/whatever, so maybe the idea that it was written when he was just a kid seemed like an excuse, and the story grew from there.
The logs from the recording sessions are enough proof for me. I consider the urban legend debunked and will amend the writeup.
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I think it's just a story to explain why such a relatively simple song wound up on such an ambitious album myself. "Oh, yeah, Lucky Man, right, uhm, I wrote it when I was 12, and we just stuck it on the album at the last minute to make the label happy!" It just took a life of its own to the point that it became truth...except for those pesky liner notes. :lol
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Well, I orginally rediscovered that Lucky Man story a few months back here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlcLwwjEdBE
Also, one of my copies of the first album (The Castle/Santuary pressing) has an account to the session in the liner notes.
I'm not going to type out the whole passage, but here's a line or two from the liners notes.
"No one had anything else and we had already recorded what had been written for the album so I suggested a folk song I'd written just after I'd learned guitar when I was about 12 years old. It was called 'Lucky Man.'"
It goes on to explain more about how the song was adpated for ELP.
Greg Lake is the source of both of these so it possible he's not being truthful in the interest of creating a fish story or trying to build a myth.
I have the Return Of The Manticore Box and while it does say that Rondo, 21st Century Schizoid Man and Lucky Man were recorded before Isle of Weight, the essay likely written in 1993 when the box was released is uncredited as well as simplistic and somewhat vague leading me to believe it was written in a hurry and more susceptible to error.
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Wow, so it's true. I'll take it from Greg. Yeah, I guess it's still possible that he's trying to perpetuate a myth, but I can't see why.
So... I'm going to edit the writeup one last time, remove all references to the story or when "Lucky Man" was recorded during the sessions, and just leave it. The writeup itself is only meant to spur discussion, and what we've gone over here in the thread is far better than me just including a summary anyway.
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Well, I orginally rediscovered that Lucky Man story a few months back here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlcLwwjEdBE
HOLY CRAP!! WHO ATE GREG????
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Hmmm, this might be one of those "You can't believe everything you read on the internet" situations, because I am 99% sure I saw an interview with the band a long time ago where they briefly talked about how Lucky Man was a last minute throw-on to the debut record. I can't remember where or when, just that I remember seeing it.
*ahem* ;)
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Ahh, the hilarity of competing sources. Still feels more like a story that became true along the way to me, since bands love mythmaking, but what the hell. :lol
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Emerson Lake & Palmer: Tarkus (1971)
(https://i.imgur.com/eZbIkiS.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/Fsb3G7H.jpg)
(click for larger view, although honestly it's not that interesting)
The inside gatefold tells the story of Tarkus. I just wish I could find a larger version. (https://i.imgur.com/P33Q3vp.jpg)
Tarkus
Eruption
Stones of Years
Iconoclast
Mass
Manticore
Battlefield
Aquatarkus
Jeremy Bender
Bitches Crystal
The Only Way (Hymn) / Infinite Space (Conclusion)
A Time and a Place
Are You Ready, Eddy?
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The side-long epic, the benchmark of 70's progressive rock. As the whole idea of prog was to push the boundaries, it seemed that creating a single work filling the entire side of an LP, be it a suite or a song in multiple movements, was something most if not all prog bands attempted at least once. Yes have done it nine times so far. Genesis only did it once, but their "Supper's Ready" was longer than any of the Yes epics. But if we're talking superlatives, true progheads know that Emerson Lake & Palmer did it first. Tarkus came out a year before either Close to the Edge or Foxtrot.
Side One of Tarkus, Emerson Lake & Palmer's follow-up to their very successful self-titled debut, is a suite in seven movements also titled "Tarkus". It starts and ends with instrumentals, and alternates between instrumentals and songs, telling the story of a biomechanical creature who is basically a cross between an armadillo and a tank, complete with gun turrets. On a larger scale, the song is about the futility of war. There is a lot of violent imagery, musically, lyrically, and in the album artwork, and things do not end well for Tarkus. According to Emerson, it was written in six days, during a great rush of inspiration. The instrumentals are all credited to Emerson. The first two songs are credited to Emerson/Lake, with the third solely to Lake.
Emerson and Palmer were both very excited by the possibilities and challenges presented by such a piece, while Lake really was not, and the band almost broke up over it. Lake told Emerson that if he wanted to do such things, he should do them on a solo album. Band management convinced Lake not to leave, and he eventually warmed up to it.
"Eruption" - Tarkus is born in an erupting volcano. The main theme is introduced, a driving, percussive riff in 5/4 based on fourths and tri-tones. Against this backdrop, played on Hammond organ and drums, comes the "Tarkus" sound, a huge, thick Moog sound similar to the one used in the "Lucky Man" solo from the first album.
"Stones of Years" - The first song, a philosophical meandering full of clever wordplay and not making a lot of literal sense. But the words sound nice. "Stones of Years" was released as a single, and it reached #1 on the U.K. charts and #9 in the U.S.
"Iconoclast" - Tarkus continues his rampage, facing down other biomechanical creatures. The 5/4 riffs returns, this time with a Hammond solo over it.
"Mass" - A song seemingly about religion, perhaps as a solution to violence and war. The lyrics are full of the wordplay and internal rhymes that Lake was so fond of during this period.
"Manticore" - The manticore (a mythical creature with the body of a lion, face of a man, and tail of a scorpion) arrives, with its own theme, a variation of the Tarkus riff, in 9/8 this time. Based on three groups of three, this is the first and only instrumental with a somewhat "normal" feel to it, allowing Emerson to solo in three (again on the Hammond) and interject some of his signature musical quirks and quotes.
"Battlefield" - As Tarkus and the manticore face each other, the final vocal section muses about war and futility, a common theme in early 70's music. Lake's electric guitar makes its first appearance on the album, and he even takes the solo, since it's his song.
"Aquatarkus" - Tarkus is defeated by the manticore, his body ending up in a river. Aqua + tarkus. The 5/4 riff and the Tarkus theme return, and the suite concludes.
Side Two is often overlooked as mere filler. Certainly, the title suite on Side One is the main attraction, but I recently acquired the new 5.1 mix of Tarkus, and Side Two (really just the second half of the album, since discs have no sides) really hit me hard for the first time.
"Jeremy Bender" - Emerson Lake & Palmer had many diverse influences, and Emerson's affection for the American West and honky-tonk music was one of them. "Jeremy Bender" tells the strange story of a man who decides to become a nun, either as a way of meeting girls or to fulfill his cross-dressing needs; it's not really clear.
"Bitches Crystal" - More detuned piano, but this time with a driving 12/8 beat and synths helping provide atmosphere. The solo is on a detuned piano, with Emerson totally rocking it, then it is intercut with a lilting, music-box riff, resulting in a strange, anachronistic feeling. Lake's vicious, driving words with their internal rhythm and rhyme add to the overall manic feel of the song. Not for everyone, but a great high-energy barnburner if you can handle it.
"The Only Way (Hymn)" and "Infinite Space (Conclusion)" - The pipe organ makes its return in the first part of this two-part suite, with its somewhat cynical and sarcastic look at religion. Emerson's masterful pipe organ backdrop, fully supporting Lake's soaring voice, gives way to a brief interlude jazz-trio interlude (with Palmer's only appearance), then the final verse has Emerson's acoustic piano and Lake's multitracked voices. The "conclusion" is an instrumental, performed by piano, bass, and drums. It's dominated by Emerson's piano solo, with the left hand assuming an ostinato and the right hand playing against it both rhythmically and tonally. It's something of an experimental piece, recalling some of the more atonal moments from his solo during "Take a Pebble".
"A Time and a Place" - The first of two tracks credited to Emerson/Lake/Palmer, here we have Palmer's driving beat, Lake's manic lyrics and vocals, and Emerson breaking out his full arsenal of Hammond organ, piano, and Moog. Also, he's learned to program the Moog into some truly impressive brass sounds, and they really scream.
"Are You Ready, Eddy?" - After an album's worth of insane, aggressive, arrogant prog, ELP show that they can goof around with the best of them. It's a 12-bar blues, based on a very simple question: Are you, Eddy, ready for this next track? (Eddy Offord engineered and/or produced most of both Yes and ELP's early output, as well as John Lennon, Procol Harum, and countless others.) After not one, but two psychotic piano solos and several verses both praising and questioning Eddy's skills on the sixteen tracks and faders, things break down at the end when the sandwiches arrive, and they've only got ham or cheese. Ham or cheese.
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Albums were shorter back then. Songs were shorter back then. True, Yes had been stretching things out for a while by this point, but it was not yet the norm, even in prog. Of course, there was no "prog" yet. Bands were still called Art Rock at this time, and were still figuring out what they could do and how to do it. Perhaps after the debut, ELP simply made a decision to tighten things up. After all, their debut only had six tracks and the average length was nearly double what it is here.
But that's just speculation. The bottom line is that the amazing title suite goes through seven movements in less than 21 minutes; do the math. Emerson said that in restrospect, it's not really well done. It changes ideas too quickly. And Side Two is shorter than that, with six tracks of its own. Perhaps the reason why Side Two is overall less satisfying for many is because the songs are all rather short, especially by prog standards. They're just basic songs. Now, to an ELP fan, they're great songs; there's still plenty here to dig into, but it's not surprising that people tend to focus on the title suite and dismiss the rest. I know I did for a long time.
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I loooove this album. The title track (that is how you start off a track about an epic battle... involving an... armadillo tank? Even better!), the second side is full of great tracks too. I love how off the wall Bitches Crystal gets, and I've always enjoyed The Only Way and Infinite Space together. The only weak spot for me is Are You Ready Eddy?, as it just sounds like a throwaway to me. And the album cover. I've loved it ever since I was a kid. I want a Tarkus action figure, damn it!
Like others in the thread though, I'm not so much attached to ELP like I am to Yes or Genesis. Can't explain why, I know they're one of the "big 5" or whatever, but there was always something missing in their music that never drew me to them as much. That keyboard is so prominent that it just kind of drains me after a while. It's why I didn't really comment on the s/t release, and probably won't have much to say about the other albums, barring two future songs that I really love. That said, Tarkus is one of my favorite albums ever, just because of how high quality most of it is.
Also, LegoTarkus ftw.
(https://bullmurph.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/tarkus1.jpg)
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I GREATLY prefer the live version of Tarkus from Welcome Back... to the studio cut. It's probably because it's what I heard first. However, I love how most of it is taken at a faster tempo, how "Epitaph" is teased, and the extended solo in "Aquatarkus."
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LegoTarkus ftw.
(https://bullmurph.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/tarkus1.jpg)
Awesome! I saw that while I was Googlesearching album art, and I'm glad you included it here. Is that Lego Luke Skywalker next to Tarkus, with an emo haircut?
I know what you mean about ELP somehow not quite drawing me back the same way Yes and Genesis do. For me, it's because Yes and Genesis both sought to make truly organic music. They each had massive talent in the band, but the parts blended into some really beautiful music. With ELP, it almost seemed like the guys were constantly fighting each other musically. They each had plenty of space, and used it, but then the challenge became getting the parts to fit. ELP had a different approach to their music, and had a lot more going on, which is why it's great if you're in the mood, but sometimes hard to listen to.
I GREATLY prefer the live version of Tarkus from Welcome Back... to the studio cut. It's probably because it's what I heard first. However, I love how most of it is taken at a faster tempo, how "Epitaph" is teased, and the extended solo in "Aquatarkus."
Yeah, I started with the live album, too. But I like the studio version of "Tarkus" almost as much. With the slower tempo, especially to the main 5/4 theme, it really feels more mechanical, more percussive, and I like that. It seems to fit better with the concept than just ripping through it as fast as you can play it. And the first time I heard the original Tarkus sound on the Modular Moog... holy shit! It's a shame that it only shows up twice in the whole song. The same lick on MiniMoog doesn't have nearly the impact; it's just a musical line to be played. Also, the solos are all different and quite cool, and Lake of course gets all the words right. Once I became more familiar with ELP, it was fun listening to the live album and noticing how many times Lake messes up the words.
But I completely agree with you about the live solo in "Aquatarkus". It's mindbending. Emerson was the master of the Moog.
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Fun fact: for a spell back in the 90s, I had TARKUS as my personalized license plate.
So yeah, huge fan of the song. First time I heard the Stones of Years section (live, in '92), I thought that that was the most awesome vocal melody I had ever heard.
But does anyone else think it is a little weird that the 40 plus section at the end of the song that repeats what they did at the beginning is not only the same verbatim, but it is literally the same. Like, they didn't even play it slightly different. It is like they played it once and used it at the beginning and the end. That's always struck me as a little odd. That aside, Tarkus is still an incredible song and easily my favorite ELP song.
As for the rest of the album, I am not a big fan of most of it, though I do love Bitches Crystal.
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First, LEGO TARKUS. That's amazing. :D
Second, finding a larger image of the inner sleeve of Tarkus online is something I've been trying to find for years. Friend of mine had the vinyl, and I loved the hell out of it.
As to the album itself-I love half of it. The title track, of course, is awesome, and is one of the best tracks in the history of prog rock period. I prefer the live version since that, as well, was the version I heard first, but the studio version's pretty awesome too. I'd be a failure as a DT fan if I didn't mention the full length version of Tarkus that appears on Jordan Rudess' prog covers album The Road Home, but I'm going to go the extra mile and mention the shortened version of the song that appeared on Magna Carta's ELP tribute album that not only featured JLB singing a bit of Stones of Years AND Derek Sherinian shredding madly on the end keyboard solo. There, my DT nerdery is done. Back to the actual song itself, given that it's the first side long suite in prog, it's actually pretty well thought out and put together. It wasn't the first suite song in music-Procul Harum at least was there in 1968 with In Held 'Twas in I, though that's four minutes shorter-but ELP took it to the next level with Tarkus. Of the early prog epics, this one is easily the most complex and ambitious, which makes its existence as one of the earliest all the more stunning.
The rest of the album? To me, it's kind of like my relationship these days with Rush's 2112. There's a couple of worthwhile songs on side two (A Time And A Place and Bitches Crystal) but I just mostly give the title track a listen and move on to something else. (In case you're wondering, the Rush tracks that I give the time of day to on 2112's second side are Something For Nothing and A Passage To Bangkok.) Tarkus is an album that, if you're just getting into prog, you have to hear sooner or later, just because of the historical importance of the title track. True, critics tend to forget these days how monumental an effort that song was for the time and focus on the armadillo tank story, but fuck 'em. The song's brilliant.
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I'm not big on Tarkus. While there's some interesting going on during both sides, the title track always strikes me as overbaked and ridiculous, while side two is a real mixed bag. "Jeremy Bender" is good, but only because I love Copland, and also because I ignore the terrible lyrics. "The Only Way" reeks of self-righteous indignation, which is pretty common any time ELP write about religion. "Bitches Crystal" is alright, I guess. Different, for ELP, but not particularly memorable. Fortunately, it's all up from here for awhile.
The version I'm listening to comes with a bonus track: "Oh, My Father". This is, imo, a better song than any on the actual album, thought it has a chord progression which kinda reminds me of Jimi Hendrix's "Hey Joe".
Did anyone listen to the version of Tarkus with Steve Wilson on vocals for Jordan Rudess' solo record? I'm not gonna lie; I like Rudess' version a bit better.
Like, they didn't even play it slightly different. It is like they played it once and used it at the beginning and the end. That's always struck me as a little odd. That aside, Tarkus is still an incredible song and easily my favorite ELP song.
I only noticed it today, and it really bothered me. I actually thought that it was a remastered version of the song tacked in on the end starting, until I realized that it was a copy/paste job.
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Like most, I never really bothered with the B side. Listened again today, and I still don't care about those songs.
IMO the placing of the epic is what's wrong. I mean, with LP's you could either start with the A side, or with the B side, I never do that, but you could, easily. On a CD, or an Ipod, you have to get past the Epic, and the rest of the album seems dull.
I remember MP saying on the making of Systematic Chaos, that they couldn't open with all of ITPOE, it would leave the listeners exhausted after just one track.
With Floyd's Meddle, you can see the first few tracks as working up to Echoes, and that works great now. (I can imagine that people in the LP days would just only play side B, but in the CD/Ipod days it's different).
Point is: I like to listen to albums from start to finish, and after listening to the extreme epicness that is Tarkus nothing sounds good. If they worked up to it, it would've worked better.
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Did anyone listen to the version of Tarkus with Steve Wilson on vocals for Jordan Rudess' solo record? I'm not gonna lie; I like Rudess' version a bit better.
As I mentioned it in my post, at least one person here has heard it. :lol I like it a lot, plus I think it takes guts to cover ALL of a 21 minute prog classic.
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Like most, I never really bothered with the B side. Listened again today, and I still don't care about those songs.
IMO the placing of the epic is what's wrong. I mean, with LP's you could either start with the A side, or with the B side, I never do that, but you could, easily. On a CD, or an Ipod, you have to get past the Epic, and the rest of the album seems dull.
I remember MP saying on the making of Systematic Chaos, that they couldn't open with all of ITPOE, it would leave the listeners exhausted after just one track.
With Floyd's Meddle, you can see the first few tracks as working up to Echoes, and that works great now. (I can imagine that people in the LP days would just only play side B, but in the CD/Ipod days it's different).
Point is: I like to listen to albums from start to finish, and after listening to the extreme epicness that is Tarkus nothing sounds good. If they worked up to it, it would've worked better.
I tend to agree - opening with a side-length epic (or at least a song that makes up more than a third/half of your albm) is HARD to do while still making the rest of the music as enjoyable. However, Yes did it TWICE with "Close To The Edge" and "The Gates Of Delirium", and Rush once with "Hemispheres", and both bands still managed to pull of great Side 2's on their albums.
On the other hand, albums like Tarkus and 2112 do suffer from opening with the epic and THEN following with shorter songs. It's a bit like having your main course first, THEN the appetizer sampler afterwards. Nothing you have after the main course is just as good, especially if it's REALLY good, as is the case with epics like "Tarkus" and "2112". Genesis did it right with "Supper's Ready" on Foxtrot, and as you stated, Pink Floyd with "Echoes" on Meddle.
Anyways, I am listening to the album now, and I'm near the end of the title epic. It's as good as I remember it being! Still a benchmark for 70's prog epics, and I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I really enjoy the cover on Jordan Rudess' album The Road Home!!! Great performances on that cover!
I really like "Tarkus" for all it's parts, and it flows SO well! It's less disjointed/glued-together than other epics of the time, like "2112" and "Supper's Ready" which can often times sound a bit "here's a song, then a short break to put them together, then another song". Maybe "Tarkus" does do that, but it keeps up it's energy so well that it doesn't FEEL like that at all. I also want to give props to the "intro sound", something that many epics would do ("2112" and "Close To The Edge" being notable examples).
"Jeremy Bender" is typical for the old west style that they seem to enjoy, via Copland influences. Why do virtuoso keyboardists enjoy honky-tonk so much? Emerson here, as well as Rick Wakeman and Jordan Rudess... it must be a keyboardist thing... At least "Jeremy Bender" is short! It's more of an interlude or introduction to Side 2 for how short it is.
"Bitches Crystal" features some fast and frantic drumming with expert piano playing. It's a fast and fun tune, and certainly step up from "Jeremy Bender".
"The Only Way (Hymn)"/"Infinite Space (Conclusion)" is an interesting and very different sort of duo of pieces. LOVE the organ in it, as well as the fast-jazz style break in the middle. This kind of all-over-the-place changing is just what is so interesting about ELP, and they seem to pull it off quite expertly.
"A Time And A Place" is the hard rocker! More fast and frantic drumming while Lake screams his vocals. It's definitely different than the songs prior to it. It shows that this band isn't afraid to go even further out. As if their first album wasn't experimental enough, and that their second album opened with a side-length epic, they get even crazier. I do love the drumming on this track though!
"Are You Ready Eddy?" is a silly track...but then again, it's prog. You can't be TOO serious, right? :lol
-Marc.
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IMO the placing of the epic is what's wrong. I mean, with LP's you could either start with the A side, or with the B side, I never do that, but you could, easily. On a CD, or an Ipod, you have to get past the Epic, and the rest of the album seems dull.
I remember MP saying on the making of Systematic Chaos, that they couldn't open with all of ITPOE, it would leave the listeners exhausted after just one track.
With Floyd's Meddle, you can see the first few tracks as working up to Echoes, and that works great now. (I can imagine that people in the LP days would just only play side B, but in the CD/Ipod days it's different).
Point is: I like to listen to albums from start to finish, and after listening to the extreme epicness that is Tarkus nothing sounds good. If they worked up to it, it would've worked better.
I mostly agree. I think that if an album has one long epic and a bunch of short songs, it works better if the long epic is last, not first. I think the flow of the last Flower Kings album was thrown off a bit by doing it the old way (25 minute song first and then four songs in the 6-8 minute range). It can make getting through the rest of an album seem like work after having such an exhausting epic thrown at you first. But there is something to be said about an album kicking your ass with such awesomeness from the start. I think the problem with Tarkus in that regard is that so many of the songs on Side 2 were ho-hum. If all of the shorter songs were really good, it wouldn't be a big deal, but since they aren't, they come across as afterthoughts, like, "Here is our awesome epic, and, oh, we had to fill up Side 2, so here are a bunch of short songs we threw together for it." Not saying that IS the real deal, but it can come across that way.
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Yeah, maybe if the "regular" songs were first and we finished up with the title epic, the others wouldn't seem so much like filler. I'm guessing that the idea was to give the title epic prominent placement by having it lead things off.
But does anyone else think it is a little weird that the 40 plus section at the end of the song that repeats what they did at the beginning is not only the same verbatim, but it is literally the same. Like, they didn't even play it slightly different. It is like they played it once and used it at the beginning and the end.
I think I know what you mean, but the term "40 plus section" is throwing me for a loop. What exactly does that mean?
The ending section of "Aquatarkus" is obviously a reprise of the main theme from "Eruption", so I guess it's never bothered me that it sounds the same. Those guys were so technical, I just figured that if you're going to play the same bit, it's gonna sound exactly the same.
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I meant 40 second plus section. My bad. :facepalm:
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The side-long epic, the benchmark of 70's progressive rock. As the whole idea of prog was to push the boundaries, it seemed that creating a single work filling the entire side of an LP, be it a suite or a song in multiple movements, was something most if not all prog bands attempted at least once. Yes have done it nine times so far. Genesis only did it once, but their "Supper's Ready" was longer than any of the Yes epics. But if we're talking superlatives, true progheads know that Emerson Lake & Palmer did it first. Tarkus came out a year before either Close to the Edge or Foxtrot.
whoah hey, King Crimson did it a year before, it's called Lizard.
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Okay, ELP did it first well. :biggrin:
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Ah, I'd forgotten about Lizard! I have to admit, I've never really been impressed by that album. A lot of early Crimson feels too experimental to me, and the title epic is a bit too obviously separate bits cobbled together. But I haven't listened to it in a while, I'm just recalling my impressions. I should listen to it again.
I meant 40 second plus section. My bad. :facepalm:
Got it. I should've figured it out, but for some reason "40 plus" to me conjured a reference to age or maybe waist size, and once I got mentally derailed like that, I couldn't think of the musical term you were getting at.
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It's all right, not everyone is awesome enough to love Lizard. ;D
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I meant 40 second plus section. My bad. :facepalm:
Got it. I should've figured it out, but for some reason "40 plus" to me conjured a reference to age or maybe waist size, and once I got mentally derailed like that, I couldn't think of the musical term you were getting at.
Is this when the Greg Lake fat jokes kick in? :biggrin:
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(https://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/74/4ab07302fec74e19a914908bd10394be/l.jpg)
He actually doesn't look as big as I remember.
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I saw a video of some television thing he'd done a few years back, and I was amazed at how big he'd gotten, and also how much lower his voice is now. I was thinking that he's easily a baritone now, going on bass, and eventually will go subsonic. Only marine mammals will be able to hear him.
Then I caught the ELP 40th anniversary thing just a few weeks ago, and it was just depressing. All the songs were in lower keys, slowed down at least a little, and neither Emerson nor Lake can really play anymore. Emerson didn't even try to do the thing where he plays keyboards opposite of each other, or even two at once a lot of the time. Lake didn't play much guitar, mostly letting Emerson play the songs on the keyboards. My favorite Lake song of all, "The Sage" (from Pictures at an Exhibition) is voice and guitar, but instead, Emerson provided a nice keyboard backdrop and Lake just sang it. Okay, it sounded great, but can Greg not even play and sing at the same time anymore?
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Doesn't Keith Emerson have Parkinson's? Pretty damning for a musician, and out of his control (unlike with Lake, who's just been lounging around for the most part since ELP broke up).
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I know he's had health issues. For some reason, I seem to think that it was some kind of nerve disorder, although I suppose Parkinson's falls into that category. But he had surgery a few years ago and is doing much better. That doesn't sound like Parkinson's.
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Update: A little Googling revealed that he had surgery in 1994 for nerve damage, but made a full recovery at that time. Then in 2009, he was forced to cancel the Keith Emerson Band tour, as well as the planned ELP reunion tour later that year.
Age, and physicial limitations of the human body. What a bitch.
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A bit late and off-topic, but when I was getting into King Crimson last year, most of the albums I heard were pretty hit and miss. Lizard's the only thing by them where I thought the whole album was absolutely abysmal.
And I really do wish Tarkus was at the end of the album. The first time I ever listened to the album, the other tracks really did feel like an afterthought and it took me a while to take the time to listen to them.
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Why does everyone hate on Lizard? :'(
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whoah hey, King Crimson did it a year before, it's called Lizard.
It's all right, not everyone is awesome enough to love Lizard. ;D
Why does everyone hate on Lizard? :'(
Your contributions to a thread dedicated strictly to Emerson Laker & Palmer are quite puzzling. Are you here to actually discuss ELP, or merely to talk about King Crimson and Lizard?
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whoah hey, King Crimson did it a year before, it's called Lizard.
It's all right, not everyone is awesome enough to love Lizard. ;D
Why does everyone hate on Lizard? :'(
Your contributions to a thread dedicated strictly to Emerson Laker & Palmer are quite puzzling. Are you here to actually discuss ELP, or merely to talk about King Crimson and Lizard?
I'm sorry, I'll leave politely.
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Don't do that. It just seems kinda weird that you're pimping Lizard so hard. True, King Crimson produced a side-long epic before ELP did, but for whatever reason, no one seems to consider Lizard in the running. I've seen it mentioned on more than one site that Tarkus was the first, beating out Yes and Genesis. And that's odd because King Crimson is often recognized as one of the first prog bands, so Lizard shouldn't be overlooked like that.
I can only conclude that it's because it's just not recognized as a cohesive work. As I said, I haven't listened to it in a while, but I remember not being that impressed and getting the distinct impression that it was cobbled together.
Anyway, the topic is ELP, not Crimson. Personally, I thought it was amusing that you were pushing Lizard and no one had a good answer for you.
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Don't do that. It just seems kinda weird that you're pimping Lizard so hard. True, King Crimson produced a side-long epic before ELP did, but for whatever reason, no one seems to consider Lizard in the running. I've seen it mentioned on more than one site that Tarkus was the first, beating out Yes and Genesis. And that's odd because King Crimson is often recognized as one of the first prog bands, so Lizard shouldn't be overlooked like that.
I can only conclude that it's because it's just not recognized as a cohesive work. As I said, I haven't listened to it in a while, but I remember not being that impressed and getting the distinct impression that it was cobbled together.
Anyway, the topic is ELP, not Crimson. Personally, I thought it was amusing that you were pushing Lizard and no one had a good answer for you.
It's all right, I'm not into ELP at all and I'm not in the mood really to listen to them (who knows, I'll try maybe) so I have nothing to bring to this discussion.
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ELP was one of my first prog bands and Tarkus absolutely blew me away the first time I heard it. The b-sides are not bad and I never skip them but they prevent Tarkus from being a perfect album.
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I saw a video of some television thing he'd done a few years back, and I was amazed at how big he'd gotten, and also how much lower his voice is now. I was thinking that he's easily a baritone now, going on bass, and eventually will go subsonic. Only marine mammals will be able to hear him.
Then I caught the ELP 40th anniversary thing just a few weeks ago, and it was just depressing. All the songs were in lower keys, slowed down at least a little, and neither Emerson nor Lake can really play anymore. Emerson didn't even try to do the thing where he plays keyboards opposite of each other, or even two at once a lot of the time. Lake didn't play much guitar, mostly letting Emerson play the songs on the keyboards. My favorite Lake song of all, "The Sage" (from Pictures at an Exhibition) is voice and guitar, but instead, Emerson provided a nice keyboard backdrop and Lake just sang it. Okay, it sounded great, but can Greg not even play and sing at the same time anymore?
I couldn't bring myself to watch/listen to that. I think I unintentionally stumbled on a clip from that show once and while it was better than I expected, it was still hard to watch. I last saw them on the Black Moon tour and Emerson was dropping notes all over the stage and that was when I decided never to see ELP live again (I've seen Carl Palmer six times since). The last live recording I have from them was the Royal Albert Hall gig from that tour. Of course at that point I wasn't aware of all of the medical issues.
But yeah, I like Tarkus a lot (especially and not surprisingly more live) I like the B-side too as it provided the contrast between the and is another reminder that Emerson Lake and Palmer was not just an epic band, but was capable of writing shorter songs too and although quirky at times are still very listenable and uncompromising.
And for the record, I LOVE Lizard and King Crimson ( A LOT)
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It's funny how most people seem to disregard Tarkus's B-Side when they first hear the album and are instead more prone to pimp the title-track. However, when I first heard Tarkus (last year in fact), it was the songs after Tarkus that initially drew me in. Maybe it was the fact that it was one of the last classic prog epics that I had listened to, having heard Lizard, Close To The Edge, and 2112 before, but it just really didn't wow me with that first listen. It's stood out more on subsequent listens, but I guess, going in, expecting to be blown away by one of the founding songs of prog is probably setting oneself up for disappointment.
As for the other songs, I think it's criminal that they're overlooked as they're a lot more cohesive and fun than most of the stuff on their debut. Sure the debut has The Barbarian, Knife-Edge and Lucky Man and, as good as it is, Take A Pebble feels like a couple of different ideas kinda mashed together. Same with Three Fates, though I like it much, much less than Take A Pebble.
As for the Lizard vs Tarkus debate, if we're talking a battle of the title-tracks, I'll take Lizard any day of the week but I think the Tarkus album is probably the better, more consistent of the two.
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Okay, so I listened to Lizard (the title suite) tonight once, almost two times. I'd forgotten that Jon Anderson sang "Prince Rupert Awakes". So that was cool. The problem is that after that song, things devolve into your typical King Crimson free-form improv fest. It's interesting, but I can't listen to improv like that over and over. I think the reason why it's not seriously considered in the running for Earliest Prog Epic is because it's mostly improv, not composed. Heck, my buddies and I can jam in the basement and stumble upon some pretty good grooves too, but I'm not going to take a 20-minute chunk of tape and put it out there and call it an epic, which is pretty much what Fripp and Company have done here. Now, I'm not claiming to play on the same level as Fripp, but when I listen to some of the free-form stuff that he commits to tape (and charges money for), I often find myself thinking "I could do that" and I don't think I'm wrong, at least not all the time.
I like a lot of King Crimson, but the improvised stuff usually doesn't grab me. Not enough structure. "Asbury Park" from U.S.A. kicks ass, and I've heard a few live versions of "The Talking Drum" that are pretty cool, but that's about it. It seems to work better live, building a jam out of thin air. In the studio, there's nothing to work with, no magic.
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Just out of interest on the "epic song" debate but do Pink Floyd not factor into this, now I will admit I can't quite remember it due to only hearing it once when I was getting into Floyd and also not really being a big fan of stuff pre-Meddle (I like a few tracks) but what about the material on Atom Heart Mother? That was 23 minutes and released in 1970.
Onto the main subject of ELP though, Tarkus is the only ELP album I own, I'm interested in hearing more but I've just never really checked out any material. I first heard Tarkus via the cover on The Road Home and really enjoyed it and checked out the actual album. I do really enjoy it, not a big fan of the B Side but I think as others in the topic have said once you get past the epic at the start you're kind of worn out to hear anything else.
While I won't be contributing a lot to this topic I'm looking forward to reading peoples opinions and possible getting some stuff based on that, the Genesis thread was awesome and helped me fill in the gaps in my collection after reading what people thought of the various albums and seeing them laid out so I'm hoping this does the same.
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Okay, so I listened to Lizard (the title suite) tonight once, almost two times. I'd forgotten that Jon Anderson sang "Prince Rupert Awakes". So that was cool. The problem is that after that song, things devolve into your typical King Crimson free-form improv fest. It's interesting, but I can't listen to improv like that over and over. I think the reason why it's not seriously considered in the running for Earliest Prog Epic is because it's mostly improv, not composed. Heck, my buddies and I can jam in the basement and stumble upon some pretty good grooves too, but I'm not going to take a 20-minute chunk of tape and put it out there and call it an epic, which is pretty much what Fripp and Company have done here. Now, I'm not claiming to play on the same level as Fripp, but when I listen to some of the free-form stuff that he commits to tape (and charges money for), I often find myself thinking "I could do that" and I don't think I'm wrong, at least not all the time.
I like a lot of King Crimson, but the improvised stuff usually doesn't grab me. Not enough structure. "Asbury Park" from U.S.A. kicks ass, and I've heard a few live versions of "The Talking Drum" that are pretty cool, but that's about it. It seems to work better live, building a jam out of thin air. In the studio, there's nothing to work with, no magic.
To be fair, though, that's applying your set of musical tastes to the argument. Lizard is, demonstrably, a song that stretches across the entire side of a vinyl album, released months before Tarkus. As, in fact, was Atom Heart Mother (and while I can understand why I forgot Lizard, I'm not sure how I managed to forget Atom Heart Mother.) And if you REALLY want to be pedantic, The Nice themselves released the Five Bridges Suite in 1970 and while only 18 minutes, it takes up the entirety of a vinyl side, and was written and performed in October 1969 and released in 1970 on record. Tarkus seems to be the side long epic which a lot of prog heads dub the first because, of the early long songs, it's the best realized, but there are at least three albums I know of right now that featured an entire side of music devoted to one concept that came out before Tarkus.
So...yeah. Tarkus wasn't the first side long epic. Just the first GOOD one. :rollin
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Just sayin'
https://www.dprp.net/longsongs/longsongs.php?sort=year
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Just sayin'
https://www.dprp.net/longsongs/longsongs.php?sort=year
Good point, but I think the real point here is whether or not "Tarkus" first did the side-length song/suite in a way that would be considered closer to being the first PROG ROCK piece. Sure, there's "Lizard", which really is a bit less formulaic, and "Atom Heart Mother" which is a bit more psychedelic than rock, but length does not mean proggy. It could be 20 minutes of body-noises set to a mellotron and a flute, but that doesn't mean it's prog.
I think "Tarkus" set a benchmark for side-length suites - it's in that 20-minute range and has 7 distinct movements, something that pieces like "Supper's Ready" and "2112" both share, and they would come years after "Tarkus". There's also VDGG's "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers", which was recorded in the summer of '71 and released that October, just four months after Tarkus was released, so ELP weren't the only band working on side-length epics that year.
-Marc.
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So uh, I'll just skip the current debate and say that I love Tarkus (the epic). The other songs range from bad to okay, but that epic, man. It's just great. And the album cover is one of my favorites ever, because it's just so crazy.
Previously I was only familiar with Tarkus and Pictures at an Exhibition, but because of this thread I gave a listen to all of ELP's studio albums. I still think the two I knew are my favorites, although the debut and Trilogy are also good. Strangely, I also enjoyed Black Moon...not to jump ahead or anything.
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Feel free to jump in at any time. ELP is pretty crazy stuff, so I'm not surprised that you currently favor the ones you're more familiar with, or that Black Moon also grabs you, since it came much later and is more accessible than the early stuff.
So...yeah. Tarkus wasn't the first side long epic. Just the first GOOD one. :rollin
Heh heh, I wasn't gonna come right out and say that in my own thread, but I'm glad someone else did, because that's basically it for me.
I think the real point here is whether or not "Tarkus" first did the side-length song/suite in a way that would be considered closer to being the first PROG ROCK piece. Sure, there's "Lizard", which really is a bit less formulaic, and "Atom Heart Mother" which is a bit more psychedelic than rock, but length does not mean proggy.
And this. I have trouble counting "Lizard" because most of it is improvised. Some of "Atom Heart Mother" feels that way as well, although with Pink Floyd sometimes it's harder to tell. The rest of that list, I wouldn't consider prog, except for The Nice. I guess they don't count because they were much less known or something.
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And this. I have trouble counting "Lizard" because most of it is improvised. Some of "Atom Heart Mother" feels that way as well, although with Pink Floyd sometimes it's harder to tell. The rest of that list, I wouldn't consider prog, except for The Nice. I guess they don't count because they were much less known or something.
I think that accounts for something - ELP were a super-group of rock stars back then. I wasn't alive in the early 70's, but I'm sure with a fantastic debut album, they had already garnered a sizable audience for themselves, both in the art-rock world and in the rock genre in general, especially with a single like "Lucky Man". So releasing a side-long epic on their SECOND album was a big deal, and made the idea of that more well-known. I'm not sure how popular Pink Floyd's AHM or King Crimson's "Lizard" were compared to "Tarkus", but I feel like the latter would have been more well-known, and thus, more accepted as the benchmark for art-rock side-length epics.
It's also been awhile since I've listened to AHM or "Lizard" - do these songs contain movements with reprises? It seems that many epics, at least the well-known ones, contain some sort of thematic/motif reprisals throughout or at the end of the piece, like in "Tarkus" with the opening and closing movements. I think that sets "Tarkus" apart from it's predecessors.
-Marc.
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I agree with you Marc. I guess they were the first showing a big audience that a sidelong epic was actually a possibility within that thing called 'music'. Therefore they progressed music, and could very well have made the first Prog Epic.
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"Lizard" starts with a five-minute song, but the rest of it is instrumental and largely improvised, so it does not come across as a cohesive work and is not even composed as one. A side-long artistic statement, yes, but for that matter so was "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida".
"Atom Heart Mother" is more structured, but it has a few sections that meander a bit. Because of the scored orchestral and choir bits, it comes across as a more cohesive work. It's hard to really consider it a "song" because there are no words, although I suppose that's not really a requirement. It does feel more like psychedelia than prog, but genre can be a tough call.
"Tarkus" is both fully composed and more structured. It has recurring musical themes and clearly is intended as a single work. Until I review those earlier works by The Nice, I'd say "Tarkus" has the best claim to the title because it's an actual composed piece.
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What about 'In Held Twas In I'?
I must say I've heard it once, but now I think of it, I can only think of the Transatlantic version.
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What about 'In Held Twas In I'?
I must say I've heard it once, but now I think of it, I can only think of the Transatlantic version.
Ditto, and even then, the TA version is missing a section. Also, "In Held 'Twas In I" wasn't the only song on it's side of vinyl as it was preceded by another track, "Magdalene (My Regal Zonophone)". So if we're being nit-picky here, it's not technically a FULL side-length track in that it doesn't take up the WHOLE side/isn't the only track on that side of vinyl.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shine_on_Brightly
-Marc.
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Being nit-picky is what this entire discussion is about, haha! So fair enough, ELP: douze points.
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Being nit-picky is what this entire discussion is about, haha!
Absolutely. Progheads talking about prog. It doesn't get any better (or worse) than that.
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Fun fact: for a spell back in the 90s, I had TARKUS as my personalized license plate.
I'm just re-reading the Tarkus comments, getting ready for the next installment, and realized that no one commented on this. Kudos! Wear your proghead badge proudly!
In Illinois, a "Personalized" license plate has letters followed by numbers, as with a regular state-issued plate. You pay more for it initially, then when you renew it each year, it costs the same as a regular plate.
A "Vanity" plate is whatever you want, as long as it's not obscene or something. "TARKUS" would be a Vanity plate, and not only do you pay more up front, but you pay more every year to renew it. The cost of vanity, I suppose. That's why you see things like "TARKUS 1" or someone's name followed by "1". By adding a number to it, it's Personalized, not Vanity, so it renews at the same charge.
I wanted to get "KARN EVIL 9" to avoid the extra charge every year. It would be worth it as a one-time charge. But it's too many letters, so I'd have to go with "KRN EVL 9" or something. Which I guess would be cool, a nice inside rebus for anyone who recognizes it, but in general I wouldn't like having it abbreviated.
I considered "POEM 58" for a while, too. I still might get that someday. The problem is that if it's already taken, they automatically add 1 to the number, and "POEM 59" makes no sense. I'd rather not even have it, but by then I'll have already paid for it.
First world problems.
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I've been lurking on this thread and was going to comment on Kev's comment when I actually got around to commenting ;)
Out of all of the "classic" prog bands (Pink Floyd excluded), ELP is the one that has been easiest to get into. When I started going through this thread a few days ago, I gave the Self Titled, Tarkus and Brain Salad Surgery a deep run through.... and then Welcome Back My Friends.... I am now officially obsessed.
Thank you Orbert!
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Fun fact: for a spell back in the 90s, I had TARKUS as my personalized license plate.
I'm just re-reading the Tarkus comments, getting ready for the next installment, and realized that no one commented on this. Kudos! Wear your proghead badge proudly!
:tup :tup
IIRC, I only kept it for a year or two, before then getting...*drum roll*...21DOCE. 2112 was taken, so since DOCE is 12 in Spanish, I went with that. All of my Rush friends thought it was clever; non-fans weren't so sure. :lol :lol
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IIRC, I only kept it for a year or two, before then getting...*drum roll*...21DOCE. 2112 was taken, so since DOCE is 12 in Spanish, I went with that. All of my Rush friends thought it was clever; non-fans weren't so sure. :lol :lol
:hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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Fun fact: for a spell back in the 90s, I had TARKUS as my personalized license plate.
I'm just re-reading the Tarkus comments, getting ready for the next installment, and realized that no one commented on this. Kudos! Wear your proghead badge proudly!
:tup :tup
IIRC, I only kept it for a year or two, before then getting...*drum roll*...21DOCE. 2112 was taken, so since DOCE is 12 in Spanish, I went with that. All of my Rush friends thought it was clever; non-fans weren't so sure. :lol :lol
:rollin
I am reminded-holy shit here comes a Jaq story from the 80s song thread in a discography thread-of when the girl I lost my virginity to got her first car. She worked long and hard coming up with a license plate for it, and finally settled on OYOYOY. She was going for "Oh why oh why oh why" but endlessly had to field the question "why does your license plate say "Oi Oi Oi?" And endless peals of laughter from me when we'd go anywhere and AC/DC's TNT would come on the radio.
Beautiful girl. Best legs I've ever seen. Oh, oh so very dumb.
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And this. I have trouble counting "Lizard" because most of it is improvised. Some of "Atom Heart Mother" feels that way as well, although with Pink Floyd sometimes it's harder to tell. The rest of that list, I wouldn't consider prog, except for The Nice. I guess they don't count because they were much less known or something.
I think that accounts for something - ELP were a super-group of rock stars back then. I wasn't alive in the early 70's, but I'm sure with a fantastic debut album, they had already garnered a sizable audience for themselves, both in the art-rock world and in the rock genre in general, especially with a single like "Lucky Man". So releasing a side-long epic on their SECOND album was a big deal, and made the idea of that more well-known. I'm not sure how popular Pink Floyd's AHM or King Crimson's "Lizard" were compared to "Tarkus", but I feel like the latter would have been more well-known, and thus, more accepted as the benchmark for art-rock side-length epics.
It's also been awhile since I've listened to AHM or "Lizard" - do these songs contain movements with reprises? It seems that many epics, at least the well-known ones, contain some sort of thematic/motif reprisals throughout or at the end of the piece, like in "Tarkus" with the opening and closing movements. I think that sets "Tarkus" apart from it's predecessors.
-Marc.
Has anyone actually LISTENED to The Nice other than what ELP covered? Listen to the Five Bridges Suite for starters.
I'm not arguing who was first.
The Nice were kind of a precursor to what ELP became (or the better Nice as critics always seem to say) just like what '60s Floyd and Yes were to what each band became in the early '70s.
King Crimson is it's own amazing animal entirely and probably in their own class when Lake was in the band and most certainly after he left.
Whenever I hear Tarkus, I've always thinking of Neal Morse dancing around the living room with his kids during one of the making of documentaries (I have no idea which one, aren't there like 10 now?) I always thought that was funny, especially because it's been sometimes known to happen in our house (not specifically Tarkus, but other similar music).
Also Santa brought me the Steven Wilson version of Tarkus and it does sound different to me. The bonus tracks are also great. Listened to it a lot over the holidays, but haven't touched it since. I have to make space and put it with the Mobile Fidelity version of Tarkus, which I think still sounds better.
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I've listened to the Nice, which is why I think anyone making a case for them being the first prog band has a point. People tend to get hung up on defining prog by how it turned out, not by how it came to be, so they like to point at the most recognizable and best known moments. The Nice kicked ass.
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Mussorgsky Emerson Lake & Palmer: Pictures at an Exhibition (1971)
(https://i.imgur.com/XqQVwe7.jpg)
The inside gatefold with the frames filled in. Once again, I wish I could find a larger version. (https://i.imgur.com/U3xzSkH.jpg)
Promenade
The Gnome
Promenade
The Sage
The Old Castle
Blues Variation
Promenade
The Hut of Baba Yaga
The Curse of Baba Yaga
The Hut of Baba Yaga
The Great Gates of Kiev
The End
Nutrocker
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Tarkus was recorded in January 1971 and released in June that same year. Pictures at an Exhibition was recorded live during a show in March 1971. This means that with Tarkus barely in the bag, and presumably featuring prominently in their concerts, Emerson Lake & Palmer were also performing a fully realized adaptation of Modest Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition.
Okay, maybe not a full adapation. Mussorgsky's original suite had interpretations of 10 paintings by his friend Viktor Hartmann, linked by a returning "Promenade" theme representing the walk from one painting to the next. ELP's arrangment only treats four of the paintings plus the Promenade, but it also adds variations/extrapolations to two of them, and a new acoustic song by Lake ("The Sage") fits nicely into the suite.
Overall, it is a rather faithful adaptation. The movements omitted from the original are the shorter, less memorable pieces. The first several movements are present, as is the closing piece "The Great Gates of Kiev", so the listener is left well satisfied. ELP's version is of comparable length to the original suite, just under 40 minutes. If all ten paintings had gotten the fully ELP treatment, their version would have easily gone an hour or longer.
Emerson Lake & Palmer's love of classical music and adapating it to the rock and rock genre hit its peak here, filling an entire LP. (Even the encore, "Nutrocker", is an adaptation of a work by another famous Russian composer, Tchaikovsky.) I recently listened to a full orchestral version of Pictures at an Exhibition and was amazed at how much it sounded like the ELP version. Nowadays, it's cool to adapt rock music for an orchestra, and that's what it sounded like to me. It sounded like someone had taken one of my favorite works by ELP and orchestrated it. I had to keep reminding myself that the classical version came first.
The album is not perfect. One thing that I prefer with a live album is that it be edited so as to resemble a contiguous performance. I like to hear applause between songs of course, and then after a moment, either the front man introduces the next song or the band just start playing. The first song should sound like an opener and the last song should sound like a closer; bonus points if you actually hear them say "Hello" at the beginning and "Good Night" at the end. That kind of thing. Even if the songs came from completely different shows, it's possible to blend the applause and make it sound like it's all a single piece of a tape from a single concert.
Here, after Lake introduces the suite, the audience responds, then quiets, then there is an obvious edit, then the music begins. The edit takes us out of the moment, and that's unfortunate, because what follows is 33+ minutes of very powerful classical rock. The opening Promenade is performed on the pipe organ. After a drum fill (giving Emerson time to get from the organ console to the stage) we're treated to our first painting ("The Gnome") featuring Hammond organ, bass, drums, and of course the Modular Moog synthesizer. When the Promenade returns, Lake has added lyrics to it, and a brief interlude on the Moog takes us into his song "The Sage". Lyrically, there is nothing to indicate that this isn't an interpretation of one of the paintings.
"The Old Castle" continues the suite proper, leading into a bit known simply as "Blues Variations". The Promenade returns again, then "The Hut of Baba Yaga" (including "The Curse of Baba Yaga"), and then the concluding piece, "The Great Gates of Kiev", again featuring lyrics added by Lake. After a great ovation, Lake asks "Do you want some more music?" and the crowd roars its response. Then there is another obvious edit, then the encore begins.
I want to harm whoever edited this album. Even in 1971, I'm sure the technology existed to blend the applause and hide the edits better than what we got. There are only the two bad edits, but they mar the first impression and leave a poor last impression, and that's just unfortunate. Supposedly, Atlantic didn't want to release the album on Cotillion, but instead on their classical label, since it was an adaptation of a classical work. ELP didn't think that that was a good idea at all, and opted instead to shelf the album. Only after the success of Tarkus did Atlantic agree to release Pictures at an Exhibition, so it's possible that the mastering was rushed. I'm just speculating; I have no idea, but I can't think of any excuse for such poor edits. They really do mar an otherwise great album.
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I actually never listened to Pictures at an Exhibition until this thread, where I went through ELP's discography in order to fill in the holes, which mainly was Pictures and the two 90s albums. As I never really connected with ELP like I did with Genesis and Yes, my primary interests were the self titled, Brain Salad Surgery, Trilogy, and Welcome Back My Friends. Pictures was always one of the albums I'd say "eh, I'll get around to eventually." My more cynical side, when considering how often the early rock experiments with classical music wound up sounding either pretentious or limited by the recording technology of the times, gave it a slide because I was pretty sure that even back when I got into ELP ages ago, Pictures was going to sound like a lot of those earnest, well meaning experiments that came off poorly after the fact.
Shows what I know.
Pictures works because, unlike ELP's later work with an orchestra on the Works album-which these days DOES come off sounding as one of those earnest, well meaning experiments that comes off poorly after the fact-it's arranged for the rock band format. It's just Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, not ELP competing for space with an orchestra, and it's ELP being ELP. Emerson gets to work on the Moog and play the hell out of the organ. Palmer gets to hit every drum within reach, and Lake gets to have a lovely acoustic moment with The Sage that's better than most, if not all, of the band's acoustic ballads. The piece moves at a great, always interesting pace, until it builds to the purely magnificent climax of The Great Gates of Kiev, which is one of the best moments in ELP's career. I said earlier in this thread that I always approached ELP's music from a reserve, appreciating it technically but never emotionally, but here, listening to Pictures a long time after the fact, ELP finally managed to move me. To the point that, honestly, if I was to make a list of ELP's albums, only Brain Salad Surgery would definitely be ahead of this, with Tarkus tied with it. Funny how that turned out, with the album I avoided for so long.
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I am reminded-holy shit here comes a Jaq story from the 80s song thread in a discography thread-of when the girl I lost my virginity to got her first car. She worked long and hard coming up with a license plate for it, and finally settled on OYOYOY. She was going for "Oh why oh why oh why" but endlessly had to field the question "why does your license plate say "Oi Oi Oi?" And endless peals of laughter from me when we'd go anywhere and AC/DC's TNT would come on the radio.
Beautiful girl. Best legs I've ever seen. Oh, oh so very dumb.
Awesome. :coolio
As for Pictures at an Exhibition, I somehow have never heard this whole album. ??? I guess I was always so keen on the 14-minute excerpt that they put on The Atlantic Years compilation that I was happy with that and never bothered getting around to the whole album. The fact that it was a live album is probably why I never bothered.
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The excerpt is good, but you do need to hear the whole thing. It is amazing.
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Really good album. I was already a little familiar with Mussorgsky's original piece when I first heard this (I owned it but didn't listen to it much). The band did a good job reworking it into a rock context. I particularly like The Gnome.
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To be honest, I've never listened to this version of Pictures. That being said, I would be interested in listening to their version of "The Great Gate of Kiev", although I find it hard to imagine they would be able to capture/reproduce the majesty of the brass playing the triumphant reprise of the main theme near the end. Goodness, that section gives me goose bumps every time.
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This album is good, but I don't listen to it much, even though I have it oin both vinyl and CD. The Fritz Reiner orchestrated version is just too good, so that's my Pictures go-to.
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Just gave this album a spin and I have to say - it's a LOT better than I originally recall it being! I actually really enjoyed the whole thing, and there's some great playing from all 3 members. Even though it IS a live album, the fact that the music wasn't released prior gives it a sense of new-ness, something some live albums don't really have, especially if it's just studio-songs replicated in front of a live audience.
-Marc.
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The excerpt is good, but you do need to hear the whole thing. It is amazing.
I listened to it earlier on youtube; definitely pretty sweet. But I still think that excerpt I have does a good job of narrowing it down to all of the best parts. :shrug
It did, however, remind me of what an underrated bass player Greg Lake was. He sometimes get lost in the mix, what with Emerson and Palmer both having been so awesome in their heyday, but some of Lake's playing in that tune is flat-out sick. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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MusicRadar has a new interview with legendary Engineer/Producer Eddie Offord (Yes, ELP, etc.) (https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/prog-rock-production-legend-eddy-offord-looks-back-on-his-career-570643)
He talks about Emerson Lake & Palmer: (https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/prog-rock-production-legend-eddy-offord-looks-back-on-his-career-570643#!2)
“I had a lot of fun with those guys. They were always up to no good, playing pranks and horsing around. Musically, they fit together very well. They were three dynamic and very different personalities. I don’t remember any tensions between them. Whatever problems they had came later in the decade, after I stopped working with them.
Keith Emerson is probably the most technically brilliant pianist in rock ‘n’ roll. I remember doing a song with him called Jeremy Bender [from Tarkus], and he wanted to get a honky tonk sound. There was a Steinway in Advision, and he triple-tracked his part. I slowed the tape down to get that slightly out-of-tune effect, and when I played everything back, it sounded like one guy playing one piano. That’s how spot-on his playing was – every note synced up.
“His organ sounds – my gosh! He’d come to the studio with three or four Leslies and all kinds of Marshall cabinets. He’d take up one entire wall with all of this stuff. It sounded incredible.
“Right around this time, Robert Moog invented the synthesizer. We had one of the first models in the studio. There was a lot of patching involved. At first, I was in charge of programming sounds for Keith. He’d be like, ‘Oh, that sounds good… Oh, I like that.’ Eventually, he perfected it himself and became a real wiz. The first synths weren’t polyphonic; you could only play one note at a time on them. So if you wanted a horn section, you could take up six or eight tracks to get it sounding big. That would be very time-consuming.
“Concepts and structured songs were a little more formed before they got in the studio; they were more together with material than Yes. There was a lot of experimentation with ELP. Songs could change quite a bit sometimes.
“On Tarkus is a song called Are You Ready, Eddy? Normally, before every take, Greg Lake would ask, ‘Are you ready, Eddy?’ And I would say, ‘Yeah, we're rolling.’ What I didn’t know was, they had secretly rehearsed this song, and they went straight into it, just as a joke. Later, they decided to put it on the record.
“There was a very old cockney woman who worked for Advision Studios; she would make sandwiches for us. The band loved to ask her what there was to eat. Her reply was always the same: ‘We've only got 'am or cheese.’ We recorded her and put her on the end of the track.”
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That solves the problem of what I'm going to read during lunch :D
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I've listened to the Nice, which is why I think anyone making a case for them being the first prog band has a point. People tend to get hung up on defining prog by how it turned out, not by how it came to be, so they like to point at the most recognizable and best known moments. The Nice kicked ass.
They absolutely did. Some of it was even proto-punk in a way. Almost criminal that not many people know that.
Anyhoo, Pictures At An Exhibition never really clicked for me until I got the remaster. I think it was definately flawed upon its original release, but it's grown on me over the years. The strange part about it is that I like every version of it better than the original release. It just sounds so much better.
Doesn't hurt that Carl Palmer's recent version adds another dimension to it. At least it does for me.
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Emerson Lake & Palmer: Trilogy (1972)
(https://i.imgur.com/d1MBK3w.jpg)
The inside gatefold. (https://i.imgur.com/Dpers7N.jpg)
The Endless Enigma (Part One)
Fugue
The Endless Enigma (Part Two)
From the Beginning
The Sheriff
Hoedown
Trilogy
Living Sin
Abaddon's Bolero
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After a debut album boasting three instrumental tracks out of six, full-blown performances on a pipe organ and the world's first Moog synthesizer solo, a follow-up featuring the (arguably) first sidelong prog epic, and a third album which was a full band treatment of a classical suite, Trilogy was the closest thing to a "normal" album by Emerson Lake & Palmer so far.
Sure, we have the three-part opening suite (the two parts of "The Endless Enigma" linked by the "Fugue"), the nine-minute title track opening what was originally Side Two of the album, and yet another rock treatment of a classical piece ("Hoedown"), but that's pretty tame by ELP standards, and as far as the prog excess goes on this album. For this reason, Trilogy is often recommended as an ELP starting point for non-proggers, and is often named as a favorite by ELP fans. Emerson Lake & Palmer were maturing as both songwriters and composers, seeming to "settle" for writing good songs as opposed to trying to show off their chops. Similarly, the songs feel more like group compositions than three musicians fighting each other for space.
"Fugue" is an actual fugue in the classical sense, and Emerson had to work it out and write it all down in order to play it and record it. He seemed almost embarassed that he had to do that, pointing out how other guys are "very clever" and can play such things on the fly, but he had to actually practice it.
"From the Beginning" is Lake's acoustic ballad, another hit single at the time and another Classic Rock staple today. As with "Lucky Man" from the debut, there is both a guitar solo and a Moog solo, although this time they both appear at the end of the song, one after the other.
"The Sheriff" will always feel to me like a sequel to "Jeremy Bender" from Tarkus. This is because my introduction to ELP was the live album Welcome Back, My Friends, to the Show that Never Ends, Ladies and Gentlemen... Emerson Lake & Palmer, on which those two songs are played as a medley. Actually, they're each played in their entirety, going directly from one to the other, and the transition is so seamless that I honestly never knew where one song ended and the other began until I heard the separate studio versions of the songs. Anyway, it's another Honky-Tonk adventure.
"Living Sin" is a straight-ahead rocker, ELP style of course, and the only song credited to all three of them.
"Abaddon's Bolero" is an eight-minute instrumental in the Bolero style. It's a slow-cooker, building by adding parts and variations on a single theme. Honestly, this is probably my least favorite ELP instrumental. It's repetitive and just doesn't seem to go anywhere. I too have classical training in my background, and I've never been a fan of "theme and variations".
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"From The Beginning" is a song I've always loved. I usually play it along with The Guess Who's "Talisman". Don't really remember the rest of the album though. Been a while since I listened to the whole thing.
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Few songs have ever destroyed me for several months straight the way Trilogy did the first time I heard it. I swear, I annoyed the hell out of my family for months by blaring that song to the max in my room. :lol I still love it to death, and I think it is still the best example of crazy technical keyboard playing still managing to sound melodic and awesome at the same time. Just an unbelievable song. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
I am also a huge fan of the Endless Enigma/Fugue/Enigma II suite. Such awesome vocal melodies, as well as more killer playing by Emerson.
From the Beginning is also a killer tune, and I love Hoedown as well.
The rest of the songs are all pretty good, but don't really stand out. I agree about Abaddon's Bolero, Orbert. Nice theme, but it doesn't really go anywhere and comes off as a bit tedious and meandering.
Overall, great record, though. It was my favorite ELP record at one point, but is now probably my 3rd or 4th favorite (behind the debut, Black Moon and possibly Brain Salad Surgery).
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Oooh, Trilogy. This is where things really start getting good, IMO. To start, a disclaimer: Whoever remastered this record for CD really did a butchering. I'm listening to it for the first time, and it's compressed out the wazzoo. So much power has been robbed from the original recordings. I'm starting to think that vinyl is definitely the only way to go for ELP.
Anyway, the album: First off, I've always thought the opening tracks were so awesome. I guess through covering Pictures, Emerson realized that a dirty hammond organ was the best bet for getting something close to the power of an entire orchestra, and man does it hit hard: "Your words waste and decay, nothing you say...". I've just always thought that song was so badass, and is aggressive while maintaining the best side of Lake's pretension and sophistication.
"Hoedown" is my favorite of the Copland-riffing stuff ELP did, while "From the Beginning" is IMO the best of the Lake acoustic ballads. "The Sherrif" is better than "Jeremy Bender" because, while they're similar, the latter has lyrics which obviously some kind of inside joke I don't get.
Trilogy speaks for itself, and the Bolero is underated; It starts out weak and uneventful, but it eventually grows into something much more bombastic. If the Endless Enigma stuff opens the album with a knife to the jugular, Bolero closes it with a victorious parade procession out of the arena.
Trilogy is the second best ELP album, and is the first record where I think ELP really get EVERYTHING right.
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Trilogy now has the misfortune, with my discovery of Pictures at an Exhibition, of being smack in the middle of a run of epic albums from Tarkus to the live album, and sadly being just...good. My re-listen to it when this thread launched hasn't changed my opinion of it; it's a safe album by ELP's standards. It's still very good, don't get me wrong, but after the epic bombast of Tarkus, the sheer fearlessness of Pictures, and the impending over the top insanity of Brain Salad Surgery, Trilogy comes off as almost sedate by ELP's standards. It is the album where they finally gelled together as a band, and they did take the craft of this album, apply it to the ambition of their work thus far, and end up with Brain Salad Surgery, but it just simply lacks something to me.
I do agree that it's the best album to start off a newcomer to ELP with, though. It has enough of the elements that are recognizably ELP to introduce the band, without overwhelming them with the over the top nature of other ELP albums.
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Emerson Lake & Palmer: Brain Salad Surgery (1973)
(https://i.imgur.com/YO2VSSS.jpg)
The cover, including the now-famous ELP logo, was designed by H. R. Giger, whose "biomechanical" style of art is best known in his design for the creature from the "Alien" movies, often referred to simply as "the alien".
(https://i.imgur.com/lq4LkSV.jpg)
The original vinyl LP package opened in the middle, revealing a woman's face (based on Giger's wife at the time).
(https://i.imgur.com/Z20pTPY.jpg)
The back cover was just the album title, but distributors and record stores often mistook it for the front cover. Usually, the stickers with things like Including "Still... You Turn Me On" ended up on this side. But this is definitely the back, as it has the Manticore logo at the bottom. This was the first release on ELP's Manticore label, a subsidiary of Atlantic and named after the mythological creature which ultimately defeated Tarkus.
(https://i.imgur.com/1ye2j8W.jpg)
It was easily their most elaborate album package thus far. The insert contained a six-fold sheet with Emerson, Lake, and Palmer "peeking" through the center hole of the cover device.
(https://i.imgur.com/LoQK3jy.jpg)
Unfolding it revealed full album credits and lyrics, and three 12" photos, each suitable for framing.
(https://i.imgur.com/wz1ZGHF.jpg)
Jerusalem
Toccata
Still... You Turn Me On
Benny the Bouncer
Karn Evil 9
1st Impression -- Part 1
1st Impression -- Part 2
2nd Impression
3rd Impression
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70's prog was all about pushing the limits, and Brain Salad Surgery was all about pushing prog as far as it could go. What is bigger than a side-long epic? An epic which is so long that it doesn't even fit on one side of an LP. The first eight and a half minutes of "Karn Evil 9" were on Side 1 of the album, and the rest was on Side 2. The first CD pressings had the "1st Impression" of "Karn Evil 9" split as on the LP, but later pressings have reunited the two parts.
Often regarded as ELP's pinnacle, this was the album where everything fell into place. Everything you'd come to expect from an ELP album is here and then some. For the first album on their new Manticore label, Emerson Lake & Palmer pulled out all the stops. They wanted to make a statement, a big one, and they did.
"Jerusalem" is a treatment of the veritable English National Hymn (I don't know if it's official, but it might as well be). Surprisingly simple in its arrangement and yet bombastic in its embellishments at the same time, this track was banned by the BBC for its "potential blasphemy". Just as "Lucky Man" from the debut album was the first track to feature a Moog synthesizer, "Jerusalem" was the first to feature the Moog Apollo, the first polyphonic synthesizer. The Apollo was still in its prototype stage, but who better to test it out than Keith Emerson? It must have been handy being a personal friend of Dr. Robert Moog.
"Toccata" is yet another "cover tune", although obviously that's a rather misleading way to describe an ELP instrumental, especially one of their classical adaptations. It's based on the 4th movement of Alberto Ginastera's Piano Concerto Number 1. It features more Moog work from Emerson, and the debut of Carl Palmer's percussion synthesizers. Ginastera's publishing company refused to grant permission for Emerson Lake & Palmer to adapt the piece, so Emerson flew to Geneva to speak with Ginastera himself. After some discussion, and hearing Emerson's arrangement, Ginastera contacted his publishing company and told them to grant whatever permissions were necessary for ELP to record and perform the music. (Note: I hunted down a copy of Alberto Ginastera's Piano Concerto Number 1. As outrageous as ELP's "Tocatta" is, it's amazing how faithful it is to the original piece. If you ever get a chance to hear it, do so, just to compare them.)
"Still... You Turn Me On" is a Greg Lake ballad. Lake's songs had been going through an evolution of their own, incorporating more electric guitar and keyboards, and this one is really a full band arrangement, with the synthesizers and percussion present right from the start. Greg was never (IMO) a gifted lyricist, and this is the song which contains the oft-ridiculed line "Every day a little sadder, a little madder... someone get me a ladder!" ELP, however, were never ones to shy away from the outrageous. The forthcoming tour for Brain Salad Surgery was dubbed the "Someone Get Me a Ladder" tour.
"Benny the Bouncer" is the honky-tonk number. It tells the story of the bouncer of a seedy bar who finally meets his match. The classic tragedy, with one's hubris as his downfall. The lyrics were provided by Pete Sinfield, brought on board by Greg Lake, with whom he'd worked in King Crimson.
"Karn Evil 9", which fills out the rest of Side 1 and all of Side 2, also features lyrics by Pete Sinfield. Emerson had originally written a 20-minute instrumental called "Whip Some Skull on Yer" (British slang for fellatio, as is "Brain Salad Surgery"), but by the time Sinfield's lyrics were incorporated, the piece had grown to nearly 30 minutes and was a science fiction epic. Sinfield pointed out that musically, it sounded like a carnival, and suggested the title "Karn Evil 9". The "9" was just a number added to complete the rhythm of the title.
The 1st Impression tells of a dark future where people are oppressed and everyone is sufferring. Into this bleak landscape arrives a very strange carnival, featuring amazing, bizarre exhibits ("rows of bishop's heads in jars" and "seven virgins and a mule"). "Karn Evil 9, 1st Impression" is split about two-thirds of the way through, fading out to return on Side 2.
The closing third clocks in at 4:45, making it a suitable length for playing on Classic Rock stations, which it does from time to time. (I always found that rather odd, since it includes reprises of both the guitar solo melody and the "carnival" synthesizer theme, so musically it feels like the conclusion of a longer piece of music, which it is, and not a standalone piece. But that's only because I was familiar with the live version first. On the live version, they play it straight through, uninterrupted.)
After the mindblast of the 1st Impression, the 2nd Impression is instrumental and nearly all acoustic. It starts with a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums) and leads into a brief synth solo (probably keyboard, but possibly percussion) playing a steel drum patch, then goes into a very quiet section, again with the trio. Things slowly build back up, and eventually the jazz trio theme returns to finish the tune.
The 3rd Impression is the great space battle (remember that this is a sci-fi epic) with musical and lyrical imagery comparing it to a noble war fought by men in shining armor, wielding swords, fighting for the honor of their king. In this futuristic battle, however, wars are fought by space ships controlled by computers. Even after winning the war, the storyteller, commanding one of the ships, gets into an argument with the ship's computer. And since this is a 1970's dystopian saga, the ending is not really surprising.
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Brain Salad Surgery is Emerson Lake & Palmer at their most outrageous. Everything on this album is pushed to eleven. The music, the arrangements, the lyrics, the packaging, and the cover art itself. The title is a reference to fellatio; the woman in the interior painting originally had a phallus before her, but Atlantic objected and it had to be airbrushed out. ELP had their own label, but not full autonomy, it would seem. The synthesizers were nearly non-stop. Not one, but two controversial pieces on the album.
It's my favorite ELP studio album. I've spoken to people who don't like ELP, or who like ELP but not this album, and the reasons are similar. It's so over-the-top. They're raving egomaniacs, all three of them, and it comes through in their music. True. I thought that was the whole idea.
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BSS is definitely my favorite (and I'm sure as well for lots of other fans) ELP album. The epic "Karn Evil 9" is ELP firing on all cylinders. And the other usual elements of ELP are here and at maximum levels - the Lake ballad, the honky tonk piece, the classical cover, and the crazy instrumental. This was everything they had been working up to, refined and polished.
I think if anyone wanted to listen to the pinnacle of ELP, this would be it, and it has been for me ever since I discovered prog rock! Of all their albums, this was my most listened-to and my favorite!
-Marc.
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Damn! I knew I'd be falling behind on this.
I love Trilogy. The Mobile Fidelity CD copy I have sounds better than anything I've heard.
If you wanted to show someone what Emerson Lake and Palmer is about, you give them this album. It's got footprints in folk, fusion, classical, comedy. It's got it all really and nothing is more than 9 minutes long.
Although I think the perception seems to be that that this is the ugly stepchild of what people call their "classic" period.
While I love the artwork and liners of Brain Salad Surgery, I'm not as into the album as others seem to be.
The major reason for this is that Welcome Back My Friends To The Show That Never Ends, Ladies and Gentleman...Emerson Lake and Palmer is one of my favorite albums of all time (in spite of its sonic problems) and everything gets measured by this album. The performances on it are much more inspiring to me than on the studio album and I've never been able to get around that.
I just wish it was mastered better.
Side note: The Rhino CD has a lenticular cover that is really cool, but when I want to listen to it I pull out my Sanctuary pressing, which sounds better.
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Brain Salad Surgery simply is my favorite progressive rock album EVER. Though I like a lot of prog bands more, Brain Salad Surgery is my favorite for, mostly, Karn Evil 9-the song so long it went across two sides, a thing which is totally lost in today's world where it runs in succession-but because it is the defining example of a progressive rock band aiming for the top and doing it at 110%. It's insanely over the top in every thing from composition to performance to even the packaging. It's three musical egomaniacs standing on top of a mountain proclaiming to the world that they're musical egomaniacs and they don't give a damn what the world thinks, because they're so damn good you'll love the album anyway. And people did. True, a lot of the excesses of ELP didn't do prog any favors in the long run, but on Brain Salad Surgery, their bombastic nature worked perfectly and made my favorite prog album of all time. It's sublime. It's not for everyone-if you like your prog subtle, this ain't for you-but if you like music that doesn't just push the limits, it kicks them in their face and walks by laughing at them, then this album is for you.
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Yup, this is the best them.
I will try and post more thoughts later.
Enjoy this installment, guys! It's a spiral downward from here. A slow spiral at first, but a spiral nonetheless. And it never really gets good again.
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BTW, I have never heard the title track of this album, which apparently didn't make the final cut. Is it any good?
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The song "Brain Salad Surgery" ended up on Works, Volume Two. It's not bad. Just over three minutes long, with half of that instrumental intro, it's a "regular" ELP song which, come to think of it, is the one thing we don't have on this album. We have a hymn (which is new ground), the classical cover (which also counts as the instrumental), the Lake ballad, the honky-tonk piece, and the epic. No regular-length straight-on rocker. "Living Sin", "Bitches Crystal", and "Knife-Edge" from previous albums all fit that bill.
"Brain Salad Surgery" suffers from the same weakness as a lot of ELP songs, and that's the lyrics. There aren't a lot, but they pretty much sound like they were written around the title, which IMO isn't the right way to do it. It was cut, along with the instrumental "When the Apple Blossoms Bloom in the Windmills of Your Mind, I'll Be Your Valentine", which wins the award for longest title in the ELP catalogue. It's a catchy little tune, a bit under four minutes, and also ended up on Works, Volume Two. Keeping those two instead of "Jerusalem" would have resulted in an album more in the ELP formula, but I don't think that that was a consideration. Brain Salad Surgery, the album, is stronger for having "Jerusalem" as the opener, and also meant breaking new ground yet again.
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Yeah, Jerusalem was the perfect way to open the album. As the Karn Evil stuff was the perfect way to end it.
Even though this is my favorite ELP album, the other songs you mentioned are some of my least favorites. The classical song I can't spell that begins with a "T" is impressive, but it leaves me a bit cold. "Still... You Turn Me On" has always done the same, and I don't like it as much as "Lucky Man" or "From the Beginning". As a honky-tonk piece "Benny the Bouncer" is completely offensive to the ears, and genuinely skippable. But for some reason, if I had to take one ELP album, it'd be a VERY close match between this and Trilogy, and this would probably prevail.
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I feel pretty much the same way, except that I don't consider "Benny the Bouncer" skippable. I actually like that one for some reason. Maybe because I'm a pianist and once tried to learn it (and almost succeeded), or maybe because I got this album very early in my musical career and was able to get into everything about it. But yeah, "Still... You Turn Me On" is one of my less favorite Lake songs, and "Toccata" (double "c", single "t", the opposite of what spelling rules dictate) is amazing but that's the one I sometimes skip.
And still, "Karn Evil 9" is so awesome that it still pushes the whole album to the top for me.
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I have never been overly crazy about the 2nd Impression of Karn Evil 9. I love both parts of the 1st Impression and the 3rd, but the 2nd is just too wanky for me, I suppose.
I love both Jerasulem and Still... You Turn Me On.
Toccata has some cool parts in it, but is not one I've ever revisited a lot.
Benny the Bouncer.. pass.
Overall, probably my 3rd or 4th favorite ELP record.
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I like Jerusalem and the part of Karn Evil 9 that's always played on the radio, but I don't really think much of the rest. Especially the other Impressions from Karn Evil 9. I've never found the rest of that song really fun to listen to.
And I love the album art for this one. It feels like someone holy, with all their sense of calm and serenity, is being locked behind this cold and soulless wall.
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Toccata is great, y'all are mad.
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Karn Evil 9 :tup
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As a side note, Steven Wilson revealed today in a new interview that Jakko Jakszyk will "take over the ELP remix series". Wilson says: “He’ll do a great job.”
https://www.progrockmag.com/news/steven-wilson-wont-work-on-elp-again/
So it seems we may get Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery Surround Sound Remixes (eventually)!!!
-Marc.
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Nice. Whoever did the last round of remixes really butchered the job IMO.
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BTW, since those in this thread are obviously fans of both ELP and DT, do you all hear the ELP influence in the instrumental section of In the Presence of Enemies Part 2? I always thought the keyboard leads around the 10:30 or so mark were a direct homage to the end of Karn Evil 9? The way they bounce all around is eerily similar.
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Nice. Whoever did the last round of remixes really butchered the job IMO.
If you mean last year's Emerson Lake & Palmer and Tarkus remasters and 5.1 remixes, Steven Wilson did those.
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Nice. Whoever did the last round of remixes really butchered the job IMO.
If you mean last year's Emerson Lake & Palmer and Tarkus remasters and 5.1 remixes, Steven Wilson did those.
No, I haven't heard those, but I'm sure they're good. I have some CDs that were done in 2002 or 2005. Trilogy sounds really compressed and clippy.
BTW, since those in this thread are obviously fans of both ELP and DT, do you all hear the ELP influence in the instrumental section of In the Presence of Enemies Part 2? I always thought the keyboard leads around the 10:30 or so mark were a direct homage to the end of Karn Evil 9? The way they bounce all around is eerily similar.
JP always compares DT to Yes, but I think they were always way more like ELP, especially after Jordan joined.
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Nice. Whoever did the last round of remixes really butchered the job IMO.
If you mean last year's Emerson Lake & Palmer and Tarkus remasters and 5.1 remixes, Steven Wilson did those.
No, I haven't heard those, but I'm sure they're good. I have some CDs that were done in 2002 or 2005. Trilogy sounds really compressed and clippy.
BTW, since those in this thread are obviously fans of both ELP and DT, do you all hear the ELP influence in the instrumental section of In the Presence of Enemies Part 2? I always thought the keyboard leads around the 10:30 or so mark were a direct homage to the end of Karn Evil 9? The way they bounce all around is eerily similar.
JP always compares DT to Yes, but I think they were always way more like ELP, especially after Jordan joined.
Agreed - I always felt like most of JR's influence, in terms of 70's Prog Keyboard icons, had always been large parts of Wakeman and Emerson, with bits of Banks thrown in, at least, among those three.
-Marc.
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Toccata is great, y'all are mad.
So is Jerusalem...Hell so is the rest of the album -- especially live.
I think this thread has inspired me to break out one of the official bootleg boxes this weekend.
As far as bad mixes of Trilogy go, pick up the Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs version. You won't complain about the sound after listening to that.
I haven't heard the most recent reissue (2011?), but I can't imagine it sounding better than this.
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Welcome Back, My Friends, to the Show that Never Ends, Ladies and Gentlemen -- Emerson Lake & Palmer (1974)
(https://i.imgur.com/iovM3Dq.jpg)
Back Cover (original vinyl) (https://i.imgur.com/UmJ6YQi.jpg)
Inside (original vinyl) (https://i.imgur.com/MtANYeN.jpg)
HOEDOWN 4:28
JERUSALEM 3:18
TOCCATA 7:21
TARKUS 27:23
Eruption
Stones of Years
Iconoclast
Mass
Manticore
Battlefield
Aquatarkus
TAKE A PEBBLE 11:07
(including "Still... You Turn Me On" and "Lucky Man")
PIANO IMPROVISATIONS 11:53
(including "Fugue" and "Little Rock Getaway")
TAKE A PEBBLE (conclusion) 3:14
JEREMY BENDER / THE SHERIFF 5:24
KARN EVIL 9 35:24
1st Impression
2nd Impression
3rd Impression
----------
The double-live album (two LPs) was the standard in Rock and Roll, but Prog of course had to take things further whenever it could. The previous year, Yes had done so with their triple-live album Yessongs, and now it was Emerson Lake & Palmer's turn. It was necessary, since ELP's songs are so long. The side-long epic "Tarkus" had grown to nearly half an hour and took a side and a half, "Take a Pebble" from the first album had expanded to a similar length, and "Karn Evil 9" from Brain Salad Surgery was longer than a side to begin with; it originally occupied Sides 5 and 6 here. Originally three LPs, the album is now two CDs. This unfortunately splits "Take a Pebble" between the two discs, but the only way to avoid that would have involved reordering the tracks; they chose to keep the track order.
Recorded on their "Someone Get Me A Ladder" tour, Welcome Back... contains almost the entire Brain Salad Surgery album. The only song missing is "Benny the Bouncer". Sound quality is not great, but not horrible. It sounds like you're sitting in the audience, which to me is the whole idea of listening to a live album. You're supposed to be at the concert, and this album definitely represents an entire ELP concert. (I used to sit in my room and stare at the awesome back cover picture (https://i.imgur.com/UmJ6YQi.jpg) and imagine myself there.) The mix is very good and stereo separation is great, so it's a soundboard recording with ambient noise picked up by the onstage microphones. I love a live album that sounds like you're actually there. Ultra-clean soundboard recordings are also nice, but I originally acquired this album shortly after it was first released, and such things did not exist at the time.
There are no overdubs or studio magic employed. This is what an Emerson Lake & Palmer concert sounded like in 1974. Keith Emerson only has two hands, but you'd swear you hear at least three or four parts sometimes. Greg Lake writes lyrics so bad that even he can't remember them sometimes, but his voice is powerful and fills the room. Carl Palmer is a machine. I don't know how he is regarded in the drumming world, but I've always put him right up there with Neil Peart and Phil Collins (yes, Phil Collins -- if you're laughing, go listen to some early Genesis albums).
The album opens with "Hoedown", which was the opening piece for both the Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery tours. It's sped up a bit, but is otherwise the same basic arrangement as the original. Emerson's Moog solo is pretty outrageous.
Then it's the Brain Salad Surgery opening twofer, "Jerusalem" and "Toccata". They're pretty faithful to the studio versions, and while "Jerusalem" is not a particularly adventurous treatment, "Toccata" is from another planet. It's simply mind-blowing what they manage to recreate live. So the entire Side One of the original LP was "covers".
Then things really get serious. "Tarkus" live is incredible. Once again, we are struck by how much music three persons can make onstage, how true they can be to the original arrangements, and even take things to the next level. The 5/4 Tarkus theme has been sped up from its omninous, mechanical beat to something manic and frightening. Emerson's Moog solo during "Mass" is crazy, but is still only taste of what's to come. Lake's electric guitar solo during "Battlefield" is cool, and quite different from the studio solo, and somewhere during it you realize that if he's playing guitar, then Emerson must be covering bass with the keyboards. Ah yes, that big three-octave Moog patch which fills the bass and middle, since he's playing Hammond chords with his other hand. Emerson had his Hammond specially modified so he could do such things live. Each side of the console has sliding drawers which he can pull out, revealing MiniMoog keyboards which have been surgically removed from their electronics (which sit on top of the Hammond itself). The final verse of "Battefield" is just Lake on voice and guitar, and he throws in a quote from "Epitaph", from King Crimson's In the Court of the Crimson King. The crowds reacts appropriately.
I've already used up all of my superlative adjectives, so let's just say that Emerson's Moog solo in "Aquatarkus" goes on for nearly ten minutes and is the definitive live performance of a Moog synthesizer. I just has to be heard to be believed. Lake and Palmer lay down a pattern, Emerson programs both MiniMoogs, then heads over to the Modular Moog for the solo, and it's just amazing. Best of all, the recapitulation to the Tarkus theme is organic and natural, unlike the studio version. When they come back and finish the song, the crowd goes insane. Emerson, ever modest, says "Thank you. Carl Palmer. Greg Lake."
And we're still just getting started. We go from the electronic, synth-driven insanity of "Tarkus" to "Take A Pebble", with its acoustic grand piano and Lake's soaring voice. After Emerson's first, shorter piano solo, we find that Lake's section has become a mini-showcase wherein he treats us to acoustic versions of "Still... You Turn Me On" and "Lucky Man". And as is so often the case, we gain a greater appreciation for the songs, hearing them in their original settings. "Lucky Man" finishes up with the arpeggio flourish which originally concluded the acoustic break in the studio version, preparing us for Emerson's longer solo, which has evolved into its own segment, now titled "Piano Improvisations". He starts off solo piano, and is joined halfway through by Lake and Palmer in jazz-trio fashion, incorporating a few bits from his days with "The Nice". Then they go into the concluding section of "Take A Pebble". Just under 25 minutes, all told.
The Honky-Tonk medley of "Jeremy Bender" and "The Sheriff" is so seamless that I never did know where one song ended and the other began, until I acquired the original studio versions. It seems so natural. It's a medley, but both songs are played in their entirety, and we even get a little extra jamming at the end, featuring Emerson and Palmer trading fours.
But that was just a breather, a moment to catch your breath before the grand finale, "Karn Evil 9". And I'm sure you're tired of hearing it by now, but it really is amazing how much of the original arrangements are reproduced here. Three guys, six hands total (since none of them used Taurus pedals) made all of this music. When Lake switches from bass to guitar, you hear the guitar solo but don't even think about the fact that Emerson must be covering bass with one hand, because the patch is huge and his Hammond chords keep things full. The brief drum break toward the end of the 1st Impression is now the drum solo. The 2nd and 3rd Impressions segue, and the transistion actually a bit smoother than on the studio version.
Originally three LPs, now two CDs, it's quite an undertaking to listen to this entire album, and yet I'm still disappointed when it's over. In a way, it's only seven songs (considering all of the "Take A Pebble" suite as one song), but man, what songs. Emerson Lake & Palmer blew their load with this one, and took a three-year break after it. When they regrouped, they created the very impressive Works, Volume One, but they were never the same after this. But I get ahead of myself.
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I'm listening to this masterpiece of a live album right now. I'm on "Toccata" and it's just as raw and live as I remember it being. GREAT stuff, and I shall listen to the WHOLE thing tonight! :tup
-Marc.
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Reading this and thinking about the album made me a little stiff if ya know what I mean
:hefdaddy
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I still need to get this one. The track list is great so I'll probably pick it up sometime soon.
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I still need to get this one. The track list is great so I'll probably pick it up sometime soon.
Definitely get this. ASAP. Like, tonight. Order it. You won't regret it.
I hold it as high as I do Yessongs and Seconds Out in terms of definitely live albums from 70's prog bands. Nothing gets better than this for ELP. Truly one of the best live albums, and one of the best ELP albums period.
Right now, I'm at Palmer's solo in the middle of "Karn Evil 9". And as a drummer, I can attest that he ranks as high as Peart, Collins and Bruford in terms of 70's prog drummers.
-Marc.
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I probably won't be able to get it until next week, but it's on the top of my "to buy" list.
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I know I've shared this story before, earlier in this very thread if I'm not mistaken, but this album was my introduction to Emerson Lake & Palmer. I had joined a record club and they had a special deal on this album, for the price of a regular single album. I'd remembered "Lucky Man" from the radio a few years earlier and thought all their songs were like that. ("Emerson Lake & Palmer" = "Crosby, Stills & Nash")
When this album arrived and I put it on for the first time... :omg: It was mindblowing. I was in junior high. I think my brain was permanently altered.
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Looking back at my Amazon order history in my emails, here's the order I bought ELP albums when I got into them:
Brain Salad Surgery - 2/8/05
Pictures At An Exhibition - 2/27/05
Tarkus - 3/6/05
Trilogy - 4/15/05
Welcome Back My Friends - 5/24/05
Emerson Lake & Palmer - 9/3/05
At that point, I had all the "essentials", so I didn't really go past WBMF. It was by the end of that year that, after getting into a dozen other bands, that ELP had gone by the wayside, making way for many other bands (old and new).
It wasn't until 4 years later that I got more...
Love Beach - 4/4/09
In The Hot Seat - 4/8/09
Black Moon - 4/20/09
Emerson Lake & Powell - 5/12/09
I still have a few more to get, CD-wise (the two Works sets), but I'm sure I'll get those soon. Any suggestions on what else I should get beyond these? Note - I also already have To The Power Of Three by 3.
-Marc.
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I think that's all of them, actually. Definitely get Works, Volume One because it's great. Works, Volume Two unfortunately is non-essential, but at that point you might as well get it for completeness.
I suppose there's Works Live (aka ELP in Concert) and the official boots, but I'm not familiar with any of them.
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My number three prog live album of all time after Seconds Out and Yessongs, Welcome Back was stunning to a younger me before I ever heard it because the songs were so long that they went across more than one side. That meant it had to be epic! Funny thing is, though, when I finally bought the triple live vinyl, I was a little less than impressed. Something about it didn't click with me, so it went to the shelf. If I needed a triple live album, I pulled out Yessongs, but if I needed a dose of 70s prog live, I went with Seconds Out.
Eventually, I started replacing my 70s prog vinyl with CDs, and it was largely out of a sense of obligation that I bought Welcome Back. By then Brain Salad Surgery had become my fave prog album, but I remembered the distance at which I had reacted to the vinyl and was cautious. On CD, though, for some reason-perhaps it was as simple as the fact that Tarkus and Karn Evil 9 didn't require me to flip the album-it clicked. Clicked big time. Hearing three men making all this glorious NOISE without resorting to side men, tapes, Taurus pedals, anything triggering something....awesome. Though I have seen video of ELP live from this time period and know it not to be true, I wonder if Keith Emerson didn't have two extra arms grafted on or something, he truly sounds like two keyboard players. Music this complex, being played perfectly by only the three men who recorded it, is mind boggling to me.
While sadly for me this is as good as ELP ever got-it's more or less downhill from here-wow, what a high point.
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Carl Palmer is a machine. I don't know how he is regarded in the drumming world, but I've always put him right up there with Neil Peart and Phil Collins (yes, Phil Collins -- if you're laughing, go listen to some early Genesis albums).
Palmer is almost always in my top 5 whenever I mention my favorite rock drummers. He was definitely a beast in his heyday. :hat
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Welcome Back, My Friends, to the Show that Never Ends, Ladies and Gentlemen -- Emerson Lake & Palmer (1974)
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/72906_4423177339497_2004457402_n.jpg)
Back Cover (original vinyl) (https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/482630_4423182819634_1401309637_n.jpg)
Inside (original vinyl) (https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/539398_4423177219494_2128993137_n.jpg)
HOEDOWN 4:28
JERUSALEM 3:18
TOCCATA 7:21
TARKUS 27:23
Eruption
Stones of Years
Iconoclast
Mass
Manticore
Battlefield
Aquatarkus
TAKE A PEBBLE 11:07
(including "Still... You Turn Me On" and "Lucky Man")
PIANO IMPROVISATIONS 11:53
(including "Fugue" and "Little Rock Getaway")
TAKE A PEBBLE (conclusion) 3:14
JEREMY BENDER / THE SHERIFF 5:24
KARN EVIL 9 35:24
1st Impression
2nd Impression
3rd Impression
This is the one. For the longest time it used to be my favorite live album of all-time. Few live albums can touch this record.
I'm never good at the "If you can pick one album..." game because 99 times out of a 100 I can't. But in this case, This is the one Emerson Lake and Palmer album I want on my island. It's the reason I barely listen to Brain Salad Surgery (the album) anymore.
It's all here. I just wish it sounded a little better, but even that isn't enough to obscure the magic that is happening on this record. The King Biscuit Flower Hour mix of some of these songs I think is a little better, but it's not the whole set.
This is the perfect combination of energy and musicianship. The only thing I miss is that there's nothing from the second half of the decade on this record, but this one is so good that I often forget that.
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Orbert, are you gonna finish out the discography? After Works Vol. 1, there's nothing really good, but I'll still follow for the lol's.
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Orbert, are you gonna finish out the discography? After Works Vol. 1, there's nothing really good, but I'll still follow for the lol's.
I hope he will! I look forward to following a long so I can finally give their post-WBMFTTSTNELAGELP discography a good listen. Just to be sure, you'll also be including ELPowell and 3 as well, right? While not entirely ELP, both bands feature 2 of the 3 members and follow along in the band's history.
-Marc.
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Orbert, are you gonna finish out the discography? After Works Vol. 1, there's nothing really good, but I'll still follow for the lol's.
I hope he will!
ditto, those are some of my favorite write-ups to read. I want to know what led up to something being crap.
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I'll take it as far as I can. I got ahold of Love Beach (which I'd never bothered with on CD before), Emerson, Lake & Powell, 3 to the Power of Three, and In the Hot Seat. I had Black Moon. So I think that's it. I've been trying to find a copy of Works Live, but haven't had any luck so far.
Next installments are coming. I want to give Works, Volume One another listen. All this talk about the sound quality of Welcome Back... made me curious. I checked and discovered that I'd ripped it at 128k way back when I had a Windows 95 PC with a whoppin' 20GB hard drive. So I re-ripped it at 320k and have been cranking it in the car for the past week. My CD player died a while back, so this was glorious. But it's delayed my listen to Works. It's coming.
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I'll take it as far as I can. I got ahold of Love Beach (which I'd never bothered with on CD before), Emerson, Lake & Powell, 3 to the Power of Three, and In the Hot Seat. I had Black Moon. So I think that's it. I've been trying to find a copy of Works Live, but haven't had any luck so far.
I have all of those studio albums, so I should definitely be good to follow along with those! :tup I don't have Works Live yet, either, so that won't matter to me if you get it or not.
Next installments are coming. I want to give Works, Volume One another listen. All this talk about the sound quality of Welcome Back... made me curious. I checked and discovered that I'd ripped it at 128k way back when I had a Windows 95 PC with a whoppin' 20GB hard drive. So I re-ripped it at 320k and have been cranking it in the car for the past week. My CD player died a while back, so this was glorious. But it's delayed my listen to Works. It's coming.
:lol Glad you got around to re-listening to it in near-CD Quality, as it should be. Granted, even at the higher bit rate, the album still sounds a bit raw, but I think it fits the over-all sound and feel of the music. If it were clear and polished, it would lose something in the final product. The production itself helps create the mood of the album, and it works for ELP.
-Marc.
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Orbert, are you gonna finish out the discography?
Why wouldn't he?
After Works Vol. 1, there's nothing really good, but I'll still follow for the lol's.
Black Moon is great.
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Black Moon is great.
Guess we have very different definitions of "greatness" :P
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I will admit that nostalgia probably plays a big part in my love for that album, as it is what got me into ELP, but I think some fans get hung up on it not being proggy enough (because of the lack of longer songs) and dismiss it. But there are some dynamite songs on it, which I will elaborate more on when we get to it...
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Also, I guess the reason why I was curious how far it'd continue is, fans of Yes and Genesis both have things that have happened passed their classic-era to feel good about, as well as successful solo efforts outside the main bands, many of which are still relevant today. ELP have been nowhere near as enduring. There's a couple of decent spinoff records in the 80's, and that's it. Everything after is a wasteland. Compared to the ELP's initial 4-6 album run (depending on how you count studio and live stuff), everything after Works Vol. 1 is "Tormado" level quality, and that's being extremely generous in some cases.
Another thing is, lots of Yes and Genesis albums that were considered bad at the time have become good in their own ways, and fans have softened their stances on them apparently. With ELP, that's just never true. "Love Beach" isn't good for what it is like "90125" or "Talk". Neither is "In the Hot Seat".
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Love Beach isn't good for anything. :lol Someone gave me that album for free and I wanted my money back.
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I haven't listened to Black Moon since I got it 3 years ago but I remember liking a lot of it.
And I ordered Welcome Back My Friends. It shipped today. :metal
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Emerson Lake & Palmer: Works Volume 1 (1977)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZId8qH7.jpg)
KEITH EMERSON
Piano Concerto No. 1
First Movement: Allegro Giojoso
Second Movement: Andante Molto Cantabile
Third Movement: Toccata Con Fuoco
GREG LAKE
Lend Your Love to Me Tonight
C'est La Vie
Hallowed Be Thy Name
Nobody Loves You Like I Do
Closer to Believing
CARL PALMER
The Enemy God Dances with the Black Spirits
L. A. Nights
New Orleans
Bach Two Part Invention in D Minor
Food For Your Soul
Tank
EMERSON LAKE & PALMER
Fanfare For The Common Man
Pirates
----------
After Brain Salad Surgery and the highly successful "Someone Get Me A Ladder" Tour, capping off five albums and tours in four years, it was time for a much-needed break. They took some time off, and pursued various other projects, musical and otherwise. Keith, Greg, and Carl considered making solo albums, since that's what you do when your band takes a break. Once again, they looked to Yes for guidance. Yes had taken a sabbatical the previous year and each of its members had recorded solo albums. The combined sales of all five solo albums did not match the sales of even a single album by the band. ELP worried that the results would be similar for them.
Their solution was Works Volume 1, a double LP, with one side devoted to each member, and the fourth side featuring the combined talents of Emerson Lake & Palmer. Each side also features a full orchestra, adding depth and power to both the invididual and group compositions. After three years, it was the biggest Emerson Lake & Palmer album yet. Was it worth the wait? That depends on whom you ask.
Keith Emerson, like many classically trained pianists, dreamed of writing and performing his own piano concerto, and with his status in the music industry at the time, he was able to realize his dream. Side One of the album was Keith Emerson's "Piano Concerto No. 1". He of course plays a Steinway grand piano, and is accompanied by the London Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by John Mayer, who also helped with the orchestration. At just over 18 minutes, it's a respectable work, a real piano concerto in the sonata format.
Greg Lake's side is five of his songs. They're about the same quality as the individual songs which had appeared on ELP albums over the years, but they are enhanced here by an orchestra rather than Emerson and Palmer. Keith does play on one of the songs.
Carl Palmer's side is perhaps the most interesting musically. Three of the pieces ("The Enemy God", "Food For Your Soul", and "Tank") are hard-driving orchestral pieces, giving Carl a chance to really cut loose on the drum kit. "Tank" is an orchestrated version of the same piece from the first Emerson Lake & Palmer album. The drum solo in the middle has been removed, but the addition of a full orchestra more than makes up for it. "L. A. Nights" is another rocker, featuring Joe Walsh on guitar and scat vocals, and Ian McDonald on saxophone. Bach's "Two Part Invention in D Minor" is a nice treatment on tuned percussion of a piece most people will recognize right away. Carl plays the vibraphone and his buddy James Blades plays the marimba. The other piece, "New Orleans", is something of an oddity. Barely more than an idea or two, it's the shortest work other than the Bach piece, though it does feature some nice percussion work, which obviously is the idea.
The group side features two longer pieces. To satisfy the "ELP rock treatment of a classical piece" quota, we get Aaron Copland's "Fanfare for the Common Man". It starts innocently enough, with tympani and the actual fanfare played by trumpets. Then it goes into a jam by just ELP, featuring Keith taking an extended solo on the Yamaha GX-1 synthesizer (his newest toy). They eventually come back to the original theme and finish the piece.
During the ELP hiatus, Keith Emerson was approached to write a film score. The movie was to be a film adaptation of Frederick Forsyth's The Dogs of War. It was ultimately cancelled, but not before Emerson had written quite a bit of music. He rearranged some of it into a 13-minute suite, Greg Lake and Pete Sinfield added a few reams of lyrics, and the result was "Pirates", the last great ELP epic. The Orchestra de l'Opera de Paris is present throughout, but so are Emerson Lake & Palmer. It is an amazing work. Today, it's not that uncommon to hear synthesizers and electric guitars alongside real strings and brass; back then it was nearly unhead-of.
There are a obviously a number of things that make Works Volume 1 different from the others. Specifically devoting equal time to each member to indulge himself however he chose was new. The presence of a full symphony orchestra permeating everything from classical to rock was new. Also, every ELP album up to this point had been produced by Greg Lake. Here, each member produced his own portion of the album. Greg produced his side and the group side.
In some ways, this is the greatest ELP album of them all. I can also see why some would ignore just about all of it. If you have no interest in modern classical music, Keith's piano concerto won't do anything for you. If Greg's ballads don't do much for you, there's another quarter of the album. I think Carl's side is my favorite and the most consistent, but not everyone is impressed by orchestral rock. And even the two mini-epics by the group will not appeal to everyone. Honestly, "Fanfare for the Common Man" is interesting the first few times, but after a while you realize that it's just a long synth solo bookended by a fanfare.
Personally, I consider "Pirates" a masterpiece. It's obviously quite different from "Karn Evil 9", but I love them both equally, in different ways. It's got a lot of lyrics, and I made it a point to learn them all. I love cranking it out in the car and singing along, imagining myself as the pirate captain who just happens to be a monster tenor.
The "Works" tour was both hugely successful and a complete disaster. They decided to take an orchestra on the road with them. With all the orchestral works on the album, a suite from Pictures at an Exhibition, and a handful of other songs, it was an amazing show, an artistic triumph for rock and roll.
But there were a number of limitations imposed by the musicians' union (to which the orchestra members belonged) which crippled the tour. One was a rule that they could not travel more than 100 miles per day. Rock bands routinely travelled 100 miles or more between shows, but not symphony orchestras. The established model couldn't be used to predict ticket sales. Fans will travel 50 miles or more to see a concert, so ELP ended up playing to half-empty venues. Another limitations was a rule that they could only play three shows per week. Again, this cut deeply into the revenue stream.
Before they were halfway through the tour, they were nearly bankrupt. The decision was made to drop the orchestra. The contract was set up so that they were paid for the entire tour, but their salaries weren't actually the greatest expense. Putting them up in hotels the entire tour, plus all the food, plus all the extra stage gear and trucks to move it all, were the real expense. Many orchestra members offerred to forfeit their salaries if they could finish the tour. They wanted to finish the tour; it was an incredible show. But the only way for the tour to have any chance of turning a profit was to cut the orchestra and all the added expense that went with it. The orchestra played a few select venues, including Madison Square Garden. This was doable, since most of them lived in New York City anyway.
I saw the Works tour, but after the orchestra had been dropped. "Fanfare for the Common Man" and "Pirates" were still both pretty cool, but definitely not the same without the orchestra. "Tarkus" was great, but again, I could only wonder what it would've sounded like. Same with "Pictures at an Exhibition". But it was the one and only time I saw Emerson Lake & Palmer, and I did get to see them, and it was still a hell of a show.
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I've never really listened to the rest of the ELP discography (hell, I've owned all of it for years but just never got around to Works 2, Black Moon or Inside The Hot Seat), and I never really come back to Works 1, but C'est La Vie is an absolutely beautiful song and Pirates is pretty fun.
I have revisited Works 1 from time to time, but I usually end up skipping Emerson's piano piece. I can't take 18 minutes of that.
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I adore Pirates. I remember taking the time to learn all of the words to that song, and there are A LOT of lyrics to it. I can't remember the last time I actually looked at the lyrics, but I probably still know almost all of them. That is a top 3 ELP song in my book.
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The only parts of this album that worked for me were Carl Palmer's songs and the two full band tracks, especially Pirates. I don't think I've made it all the way through Emerson's piano piece ever, and I've tried listening to it as vinyl that I borrowed from a friend, on the cassette that my friend replaced his vinyl with, and on Spotify. The Lake songs are okay, but they're kind of Lake by numbers, and don't really interest me. Pirates, though, rivals Karn Evil 9 and Tarkus as being the best things ELP ever did, and makes me wish instead of the silly "each guy gets a side" thing they'd done a full album of ELP plus orchestra. (To be fair, I'm not too fond of the only other album built like this I know off the top of my head, Pink Floyd's Ummagumma, either. The format just doesn't work for me.)
I like to think of Pirates as being the last thing ELP ever did during their classic run. God knows it should have been. :lol
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So I went to listen to this... while sitting at work working overnight... and I realized that I had put "Pictures..." on my phone instead of Works... and OMG it was amazing!
I'll probably check out Works tomorrow.
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That's cool that you got "accidentally" turned on to Pictures at an Exhibition, though.
I like Emerson's Piano Concerto No. 1, but maybe because I'm a pianist and also have some background in the classics and orchestral music. I realize that it's not for everyone. It has that "modern classical" thing going on that is somewhere between true awesomeness and music school student quality. Where it falls on that scale depends on your own taste and background. I take it for what it is. A guy known for insane rock keyboard theatrics got a chance to write and perform his own piano concerto. Is it a masterpiece? Hell, no. But it's not horrible, and I'm sure he's proud of it, so I listen to it sometimes.
Lake's stuff is pretty standard Lake balladry, but I think the orchestra does add a lot. A couple of times, I found myself comparing him to Neil Diamond's Jonathan Livingston Seagull or even Hot August Night. Neil is a much better songwriter than Greg, but there's still something about his powerful voice fully supported by an orchestra that's really incredible and uplifting. You see, Greg doesn't realize that his songs are lame. The chords are cool, the music is sweet, and he belts out those horrible lyrics with all of his heart and soul, and he sells them. And I'm sure that there are people, somewhere, who think his lyrics are really clever. I did, when I was in high school.
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That's cool that you got "accidentally" turned on to Pictures at an Exhibition, though.
I like Emerson's Piano Concerto No. 1, but maybe because I'm a pianist and also have some background in the classics and orchestral music. I realize that it's not for everyone. It has that "modern classical" thing going on that is somewhere between true awesomeness and music school student quality. Where it falls on that scale depends on your own taste and background. I take it for what it is. A guy known for insane rock keyboard theatrics got a chance to write and perform his own piano concerto. Is it a masterpiece? Hell, no. But it's not horrible, and I'm sure he's proud of it, so I listen to it sometimes.
Lake's stuff is pretty standard Lake balladry, but I think the orchestra does add a lot. A couple of times, I found myself comparing him to Neil Diamond's Jonathan Livingston Seagull or even Hot August Night. Neil is a much better songwriter than Greg, but there's still something about his powerful voice fully supported by an orchestra that's really incredible and uplifting. You see, Greg doesn't realize that his songs are lame. The chords are cool, the music is sweet, and he belts out those horrible lyrics with all of his heart and soul, and he sells them. And I'm sure that there are people, somewhere, who think his lyrics are really clever. I did, when I was in high school.
Appropriate that you post about the first two sides as I am just about done listening to them. You're right about Lake's side - it's very Lake-y balladry, and there's a few great moments, but it all really runs together. The Emerson piano concerto was great, only because I have an affinity to classic music (having gone to college for degree in music, I had to listen to a LOT of it).
It's good album, over-all, but I feel they could have made their sides shorter, or made this a shorter album. I understand Emerson wanted a whole concerto, so that prompted Lake and Palmer to produce over 20 minutes of their own music, but I think it's a BIT too long. Still great, though, especially compared to what would come after. Now I am off to listen to Palmer's side, which seems to be starting very interestingly with "The Enemy God Dances With The Black Spirits".
-Marc.
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I honestly do not remember much of the first three sides of this record - I just remember most of it not doing a lot for me - but I do think that C'est la Vie is a very nice little tune.
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Emerson Lake & Palmer: Works Volume 2 (1977)
(https://i.imgur.com/znLh0Es.jpg)
Tiger in a Spotlight
When the Apple Blossoms Bloom in the Windmills of Your Mind I'll Be Your Valentine
Bullfrog
Brain Salad Surgery
Barrelhouse Shake-Down
Watching Over You
So Far to Fall
Maple Leaf Rag
I Believe in Father Christmas
Close But Not Touching
Honky Tonk Train Blues
Show Me the Way to Go Home
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This was an odd one, and let's be honest; "odd" by Emerson Lake & Palmer standards is really odd.
Works Volume 1 was a double LP in a tri-fold jacket. It was therefore a bit thicker and sturdier than most double LPs, and between that and the very formal black cover, and the "Volume 1" in its title, it seemed to imply that there would be a "Volume 2" of equal status or import forthcoming. Perhaps it would be similar in nature, perhaps complimentary.
Okay, it went the other direction, in several ways. Works Volume 2 was a single release, in a standard single jacket (the first release since the debut to not "open up"), and the cover was exactly like Works Volume 1 except that the black and white were reversed. So yes, it was complimentary. None of that was a problem. These are all cosmetic details, and looks aren't everything.
The biggest surprise, and for some, disappointment, was that this album didn't seem like "works" at all. 12 tracks, most in the three-to-four-minute range and none over five minutes in length. Many Prog defenders are quick to point out that it isn't all about long songs or multi-movement suites. You can pack a lot of music into a five-minute tune. That's all true. But usually that argument comes up when there are longer songs on the album and someone bashes the "regular" song or two that help fill out the album. They might even call them "filler", which is where the term came from.
And so we have a problem, a dichotomy. None of these tracks are bad. Really. The playing is solid by Emerson, Lake, and Palmer. Greg's voice is as strong and full as ever. If any one of these had appeared on an earlier ELP album, they would have been fine. The shorter songs which give us a little breather between the epics. There's a great variety to the tracks as well. We have everything from Emerson's honky-tonk to Lake's ballads to Palmer's percussive outrageousness. Greg even seems to finally acknowledge his shortcomings in the lyrics department and once again enlists the help of Peter Sinfield on five of the songs. That's all of them, actually, since six of the 12 tracks are instrumentals and the one other song is a cover.
So what's the problem? The problem is that ELP had been basically on a steady upward trajectory in the Prog department, hitting their peak with "Karn Evil 9", the more-than-side-long epic, or possibly on Works Volume 1 with several long tracks featuring a full orchestra. The epitome of Prog, certainly. We therefore expected either more orchestral madness, a return to Emerson Lake & Palmer as usual, or something beyond. Instead, we got 12 "regular" tracks and no Prog. They would all be dismissed as filler, except that they're all we have, so they are the substance, not the filler. This has led to widely mixed reviews. I've seen everything from four stars out of five, to people asking if they could give a negative score.
I'm not gonna go track-by-track. There are three songs here that are outtakes from the Brain Salad Surgery sessions: the title track, "Tiger in a Spotlight" and the instrumental "When the Apple Blossoms Bloom in the Windmills of Your Mind I'll Be Your Valentine". Most of the rest are leftovers from Works Volume 1. A few Emerson pieces ("Barrel House Shake-Down" and Scott Joplin's "Maple Leaf Rag", both with orchestra), a Lake ballad (the beautiful "Watching Over You"), and a couple of Palmer instrumental tracks ("Bullfrog" and "Close But Not Touching"). The rest are band tracks, including a reworking of Greg Lake's "I Believe in Father Christmas" which was minor hit in Great Britain and still gets rolled out during the holidays every year.
Again, none of these tracks are bad, though how interesting you find them depends on your background and taste, as with Works Volume 1. It's just that we've come to expect something from Emerson Lake & Palmer -- that is, we expect to get completely blown away at least a few times each album -- and instead we get 12 not-bad tracks totalling 44 minutes, and when it's over, we ask "Wait, was that it?" Not exactly the response you're shooting for from a Prog audience, or any audience.
What they should have done was somehow combine the two Works volumes. Either fit the remaining solo pieces onto their respective sides, and the band pieces onto the band side, or maybe even have made it a triple LP with the three solo sides and a total of three sides of band works. Either way, these tracks would not have stood out the way they do now. An entire album of filler (which this is not, but definitely how it appears) was not the way to go, and the poor sales and greatly mixed reviews bear that out.
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Listening through Works Volume 2 now and you're right. It's a rag-tag group of leftovers. I feel like they could have stuck these pieces onto Vol 1 and just released a triple vinyl, but after a LIVE triple vinyl, I can see why they'd decide not to.
The songs aren't bad, but they're not great, especially considering how good/up-to-par Volume 1 was. This album almost seems like an afterthought to me, considering many of the pieces were from earlier sessions.
-Marc.
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Sometimes a band can take songs recorded at older sessions and make magic with them. After all, that's what happened with Zeppelin's Physical Graffiti-a great deal of it had been recorded during sessions for other albums, as far back as 1970. So it can be done.
Works Vol 2, sadly, does not make that case at all. I have no problem with the song lengths or the structures or any of that...the songs are clearly leftover ideas, and they were left over for a reason. Arguably the least essential ELP album if you're just listening to them...I say that because the trainwreck that is Love Beach should be heard at least once for the laughs that side one will bring...and a definite sign that the end was coming for ELP.
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Figures I'm falling behind here again.
I love Works Volume 1. It's among my favorites.
Sure the band side is awesome, but it's really the first time to experience the greatness of Carl Palmer and really foreshadows his full-blown foray into his own brand of big band and fusion.
I like the Emerson side also and I think it's really the first time he shines in a composer context without the rock counterpoint.
The Greg Lake side was always the weak one for me, but over the years I'm come to appreciate his talents as a counter balance.
I like Works Volume II although it almost seems like the contractual obligation album of outtakes, B-sides and leftovers. As diverse as it seems to be as when they were recorded, it always seemed to me to be in the same kind of style, so maybe they recorded these types of songs to fill out an album as needed.
It sort of reminds me of Zeppelin's Coda in that way. Good album, but not a lot of cohesion and context.
And in that way I consider Love Beach to be a better album.
For those who slag Love Beach, and I had that opinion too once after looking at that cover, I ask you to listen to In The Hot Seat. In comparison to that Love Beach is a masterpiece, but I guess we're getting a little bit ahead here so I'll stop.
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In The Hot Seat has more excuses for being awful than Love Beach does, but yeah, let's wait til we get to that one. :lol
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I'm watching a DVD called "Emerson, Lake & Palmer: The Manticore Special" (yeah there's a comma, they suck) and it's pretty good. This is my second time through it, so most of this is from memory:
Old-fashioned double-sided DVD. Side One is from 1977, the Works tour, with orchestra. The setlist is pretty awesome. Opens with "The Enemy God", then the short bit from "Karn Evil 9" that they always play on the radio (1st Impression Part 2), Lake does "C'est la Vie" (Emerson does the accordion solo!) and "Lucky Man", Emerson does the third movement from Piano Concerto No. 1 (the "rockin'" movement), we get "Tank" (with drum solo), the shortened version of "Pictures at an Exhibition", both band tunes from Works Volume 1 ("Pirates" and "Fanfare for the Common Man"), and some other stuff. An hour and a half.
Video quality is very good, especially for the time, and with minimal silly video effects. Plenty of good close-ups where appropriate, some shots of the orchestra when they're doing specific things (horns when they're blasting, strings when they're stringing, etc.). They obviously had a lot of cameras, and someone who knew the music well enough to catch specific shots.
Sound quality is pretty good. Mono, but soundbound mix so nice and clean. One annoyning thing is that they occassionally crank up the audience reactions louder than necessary, and it's kinda silly. There are cool parts where the audience breaks into applause, and they felt it necessary to crank the applause way up, which gets annoying after a while. But it doesn't spoil the whole show or anything.
Side Two is from 1974, and is mostly behind-the-scenes stuff from the Brain Salad Surgery tour, and some concert footage, but not as much as I would've liked. Still, some good stuff. It has the feel of "extras" when a greater emphasis on the 1974 concert would've been more interesting. But the Works concert footage is clearly the main attraction.
Recommended for at least a watch or two.
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OK, I'm learning two things about this discography thread.
1.) I must not like ELP as much as I thought I did, because this much ELP (and we're still on the relatively good stuff) is absolutely exhausting me. Every time a new album gets posted, a feeling of dread washes over me like, "ah, crap, now I gotta listen to ELP again today." It's weird, because updates haven't been too frequent or anything like that. I guess I really just overestimated how fond I was over the band.
2.) Works Vol. 2 is really underrated. It is really ELP's "B-sides and rarities" album, and it's actually very good. Whereas Works Vol. 1 is long, drawn-out, and boring, and also features no songs where the band actually sound like they are capable of writing good music together (Pirates don't count-- someone else wrote much of that), Works Vol. 2 is obviously full of material that hails from a better time for ELP. Yeah, it doesn't follow the traditional ELP album format, but it's pretty good. Two of the Lake songs on here are better than anything on Works Vol. 1, and much of the stuff on the real albums. Palmer's percussion-oriented instrumental is pretty lively, and sounds more ELP-ish than most of what was on Works Vol. 1. There are no band "epics" here, but there are a handful of good full-band tunes.
I feel kinda ashamed that I overlooked Vol. 2 for so long. My experience with Vol. 1 previously had been so uneventful that the last thing I wanted to hear was more of the same, and I'm pleasantly surprised to discover that Vol. 2 is not "more of the same" but actually more of loose ends from ELP's classic run.
Would be kinda cool if Yes had an album full of extra material from their goldern era just sitting around on tapes somewhere :D
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Works Volume 2 isn't just an album of outtakes and B-sides. There are the three leftovers from Brain Salad Surgery, but since the Works project was conceived of as a multi-volume affair from the start, I don't realy consider the leftovers from Works Volume 1 to be "leftovers" as such. They just didn't fit the format. Emerson's Piano Concerto is cool the way it occupies the whole side. Yeah, they could've fit the Joplin rag and "Barrel-House Shakedown" onto his side, but that would have been kinda bizarre and even more eclectic than it already was. Two more Lake songs added to the five would've just been overkill, really. And the other Palmer tunes and group tunes, same deal. That's why Volume 2 came out half a year later. It was the direct follow-up, the rest of the story.
I do know what you mean about ELP being overwhelming. They're so over-the-top that it can actually be difficult and exhausting to listen to them too much.
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Very little from this album ever really stuck with me. I Believe in Father Christmas and Watching Over You are both nice, but nothing else is anything I care to hear ever again. Even Tiger in a Spotlight is mostly lame, IMO.
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I imagine "Tiger in a Spotlight" being written on piano, and since it's just a twelve-bar blues, the same one featured in thousands of other songs, including Emerson's own "Piano Improvisations" (and he didn't even bother changing the key) it was pretty useless. But then he got the idea to play it on a polyphonic synth, one of the very first ones evah, and it sounded amazing and they said "This must be the first song on the album!"
It struck me at some point that a good portion of the Keith's songs are basic 12-bar blues. That's partly why I stressed listening to each song on its own merits, and try not to consider the album as a whole. As an album, these 12 short works fail (they don't "work" -- ha ha). And I'm not thrilled with "Bullfrog", though some people seem to like it because of all the percussion madness later on, and some of the others, either. But I read a lot of reviews for this one, and for every one I thought was a clunker, there were people who liked them.
This one was a tough writeup. I always wrestle with how objective and how subjective to be. When I listen to the albums each time, I always come away feeling more positive about albums I originally held in lower regard. Always, no exceptions (so far). So I try to point out positive things and maybe things that people can pick up and have a similar, positive experience. But I'd be lying if I said I don't understand why people slag on this album, and it's certainly not one of my favorites.
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Give me two essential albums and two rare/obscure albums to buy. I've been looking to get into ELP and this is a good way to start.
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The self-titled first album is essential because it shows where they came from and how they came right out of the gate, screaming. Brain Salad Surgery is essential because it is generally considered their apex.
Pictures at an Exhibition is more rare/obscure but is awesome if you can handle long-form adaptations of classical works. I don't know how rare or obscure their first live album is, but Welcome Back My Friends, to the Show That Never Ends is where I started and I was hooked for life.
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Works Volume 2 isn't just an album of outtakes and B-sides. There are the three leftovers from Brain Salad Surgery, but since the Works project was conceived of as a multi-volume affair from the start, I don't realy consider the leftovers from Works Volume 1 to be "leftovers" as such. They just didn't fit the format. Emerson's Piano Concerto is cool the way it occupies the whole side. Yeah, they could've fit the Joplin rag and "Barrel-House Shakedown" onto his side, but that would have been kinda bizarre and even more eclectic than it already was. Two more Lake songs added to the five would've just been overkill, really. And the other Palmer tunes and group tunes, same deal. That's why Volume 2 came out half a year later. It was the direct follow-up, the rest of the story.
That was part of what I was trying to say. I still like Volume 2 quite a bit even though compared to Volume 1 it kind of comes of as ELP-lite, which of course doesn't make it bad, just different.
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Emerson Lake & Palmer: Love Beach (1978)
(https://i.imgur.com/2spKIcW.jpg)
All I Want Is You 2:35
Love Beach 2:46
Taste of My Love 3:32
The Gambler 3:22
For You 4:28
Canario (From Fantasia para un Gentilhombre) 4:00
Memoirs of an Officer and a Gentleman 20:16
Prologue / The Education of a Gentleman
Love at First Sight
Letters from the Front
Honourable Company (A March)
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1978 was a tough year for Prog. The "Golden Age of Prog" was clearly over. Punk and New Wave were gaining traction, and suddenly all that wondrous, experimental, limit-pushing music that was lauded just a few short years earlier was being scorned and ridiculed. Nobody wanted 10-minute songs where the band showed off their chops. They wanted songs that you could dance to. Also, the music business was changing. There seemed to be a greater emphasis on hits and the next popular song or trend, and fewer labels were willing to indulge artists the way the used to. Yes released Tormato, an album of eight songs and overall much less Prog than anything they'd done since their first two albums. Genesis released ...And Then There Were Three..., their first step towards reinventing themselves as a three-piece Pop band who never quite forgot their Prog roots, but they were able to adapt to the changing musical landscape, eventually thriving in it.
Emerson Lake & Palmer's attempt to adapt was Love Beach. It is overwhelmingly regarded as the weakest of their 70's output, and had ELP not reformed years later, it would have gone down in history as their weakest of all. That particular superlative, unfortunately, now has multiple candidates.
Atlantic wanted hits; they wanted to sell records. They knew that most hits were love songs by sexy young artists, so they "encouraged" Emerson Lake & Palmer to adjust their image and approach. A sexy cover and a album full of love songs, and you're sure to score big. Because Keith, Greg, and Carl had started in the business at such young ages, they were still still pretty young when they made this album, and actually had a shot at passing for "sexy young artists". The result is shown above.
Carl Palmer, and youngest of the three and usually the quiet one, was the most outspoken against the cover. He hated it. He said that they looked like The Bee Gees.
(https://i.imgur.com/nRLa25S.jpg)
Love Beach kicks off with a song by Greg Lake and Pete Sinfield called "All I Want Is You". Pete had been helping out with lyrics since Brain Salad Surgery, helped with all five original songs on Works Volume Two, and was basically Greg's writing partner at this point. "All I Want Is You" is full of clichés and bad rhymes. The drumming is solid, but Keith is reduced to providing synth fills here and there.
The equally silly and clichéd title track is next. It is slightly longer, but still well under three minutes, and no better than the album opener. Keith's synth patches are a little better, the drumming again is tight... actually the playing and the production on this album overall is quite good. It's just that the songs are weak. They're attempts by a band to be something that they are not.
Greg and Pete's "Taste of My Love" is just as suggestive and cringeworthy as you might think, based on its title. That's three strikes, guys.
Ohhh, you look so hungry woman
How come you strayed in here with your eyes so bright
On this long hot night?
Could it be for a taste of my love?
Down on your knees...
"The Gambler" is a little better than what came before, although that's faint praise. The fourth track on the album and the first with Emerson in the credits, the music is somewhat more interesting, and at least it's not a love song. Instead, it's a "swagger" song, full of machismo and false bravado.
I said I'm a gambler, there's no question of that,
but I never gamble on a woman, that's a matter of fact.
My favorite song on the album is "For You". It seems to me that buried underneath all the unnecessary keyboards, electric guitars, and percussion is one of Greg Lake's most beautiful ballads. Yes, it's another love song, but this one's actually good. Greg usually has one per album, and this is it. I would love to hear a stripped-down, voice and guitar version of this song. Instead, they've built it up into a huge production number. It doesn't ruin the song, although it does come close. Okay, that's not really fair. It's actually kinda cool what they've done with it. But musically and production-wise, it's the most complex piece on the album, and they should have just gone the other way with it.
It wouldn't be an Emerson Lake & Palmer album without at least one instrumental adapted from a classical work, and here we get "Canario" by Joaquín Rodrigo, from a suite entitled "Fantasia para un Gentilhombre" (Fantasia for a Gentleman) written for classical guitarist Andrés Segovia. After a bombastic intro, it breaks into a shuffle beat reminiscent of ELP's version of "Fanfare for the Common Man" (from Works Volume One) but when the synth lead comes in, we realize that it's actually a bona fide 12/8, not a shuffle. It's actually a fun little tune. It moves along quickly and doesn't overstay its welcome, which ELP instrumentals have the tendency to do sometimes.
The epic which occupied Side Two of the original LP is "Memoirs of an Officer and a Gentleman". Apparently, with Keith's music and Pete Sinfield's lyrics, they didn't need Greg at all; this is the only original work on the album with no credit to Greg Lake. It's a four-part suite which is just what its title suggests, memoirs of a young man in 20th-century England, schooled, sent to officer training, and eventually off to fight in World War II. It is easily the highlight of the album, but beware; it is not an ELP epic like in the old days.
"Prologue / The Education of a Gentleman" sets the tone with some understated grand piano work and Greg's rich voice. A young man grows up in pre-war England and, like most young men from well-to-do families, goes off to boarding school. He will, of course, someday be a gentleman. The drums, bass, and synths come in for the "Education" part and move things along.
"Love at First Sight" again features Keith on the grand piano, using all 88 keys and laying down a glorious backdrop of chords and arpeggios for Greg's soaring voice. During the break, an acoustic guitar comes in, then tuned percussion. All of the music is elegant and beautiful, if not quite what we were hoping for with ELP's new epic. Our young hero meets a girl, and it's love at first sight. They marry just before he's sent off to the war.
"Letter from the Front" is excerpts from letters, and through them we follow things both at the front and back home. It's not explicitly stated, but there's a sudden change in the music (and in Greg's voice) and the implication is that she has been killed during a German air raid. Decorations and respect inside the club aren't compensation when you lose the one you love. But in the end, all that is left is the regiment, and what it means to be an officer and a gentleman.
"Honourable Company (A March)" is the closing movement. It's an instrumental, a march, somewhat reminiscent of "Abaddon's Bolero" from Trilogy but with a bit more pizazz and a military feel. It fades out at the end, too quickly, leaving a rather unsatisfied feeling.
And for the second album in a row, we're left thinking "Is that it?" And the answer is Yes. No crazy synth-driven madness, a few instrumentals, including one that's up-tempo, but nothing particularly mind-blowing. No Hammond, and not a lot of synth, really, except for the two instrumentals. The synths add some color to Greg's lame songs, and the real star of the second half is the Steinway grand piano. Which is actually pretty sweet. There's some really great playing in that closing suite. But let's face it, it's no "Tarkus" or "Karn Evil 9".
By this point, it was pretty clear that the well was dry. After the recording and photo sessions in Nassau, The Bahamas -- generally regarded as one of the most beautiful locations on the planet -- Emerson, Lake, and Palmer were sick of each other and couldn't wait to leave. Actually most of them didn't wait. There are Engineer credits, even Art Direction and Photography credits, but no Production credits on the album. According to Keith, that's because everyone left, leaving him to finish putting the album together. ELP were contractually obligated to Atlantic for one more album, so here it was.
Emerson Lake & Palmer broke up after this album. No one was surprised.
(https://i.imgur.com/XlqRrp7.jpg)
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Not a great album. But at least it's not In the Hot Seat.
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Memoirs of an Officer and a Gentleman is actually quite good. Everything else is underwhelming.
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I'd still put half of Love Beach (For You, Canario, Memoirs...) up against anything that came before and I think it's not that far off the mark.
The other half of the album is perhaps as bad as you'd think based on that album cover, which remains a lightning rod to this very day.
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That's well over half the album, and my three favorite tracks right there. The rest is pretty laughable. But it's not like the album is totally without redeeming qualities. At the very least, I have to give them credit for trying something different and trying to keep current, even if the effort generally didn't work.
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Emerson Lake & Palmer broke up after Love Beach. I can't find any references to a tour, and it is known that they left the Bahamas separately, and that there had been a growing rift between Emerson and Lake since the Works days, so I don't think there was a Love Beach tour. The next release was a live album, but it was from the Works tour. That album officially fulfilled their contract to Atlantic Recording, but they had already gone their separate ways.
Keith Emerson went on to compose a number of movie soundtracks, including Sylvester Stallone's Nighthawks, and Dario Argento's Inferno and World of Horror.
Greg Lake embarked on a solo career, releasing two albums, Greg Lake in 1981 and Manoeuvres in 1983.
Carl Palmer was a founding member of Asia, along with John Wetton, most recently with the 70's King Crimson, and Steve Howe and Geoff Downes, together in Yes prior to their breakup following Drama. John Wetton left the original Asia in 1983, and was replaced by none other than Greg Lake. Wetton and Lake were therefore each the singer/bassist for two different bands (King Crimson and Asia) at different times. Though it was not promoted as such at the time, Lake's tenure in Asia is now referred to as a "temporary" gig, and Lake left Asia shortly after.
By 1985, Emerson wasn't getting many movie score contracts and Lake was looking for another gig as well, as his solo career had stalled. They put their differences aside and decided to make a new album together. As Carl Palmer was still in Asia and therefore unavailable, the album was going to be titled Emerson-Lake.
They did need a drummer, however. Emerson called upon his longtime friend Cozy Powell, who was well regarded in the rock business, having played with Jeff Beck, Rainbow, Whitesnake, Black Sabbath, and others. He had a strong presence on the drum kit, and also happened to have a last name that started with "P". The new album was therefore:
Emerson, Lake & Powell (1986)
(https://i.imgur.com/CBhbdQF.jpg)
Keith Emerson: Keyboards
Greg Lake: Bass, Guitar, Vocals
Cozy Powell: Drums, Percussion
The Score 9:10
Learning to Fly 3:52
The Miracle 7:02
Touch and Go 3:25
Love Blind 3:08
Step Aside 3:42
Lay Down Your Guns 4:20
Mars, the Bringer of War 7:53
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With the benefit of hindsight, and the passage of time which had (slightly) tempered their egos, they set out to make an album which played to their strengths. Keith's progressive sense of composition and ear for creating orchestral walls of synthesizers. Lake's rich, powerful voice. And they now had Cozy Powell on drums, known for his big, booming sound. And even though this wasn't technically the same band, by calling it Emerson, Lake & Powell, they were clearly inviting comparisons to the original ELP, and this would be seen as their "comeback" album. There were many eyes, and ears, upon them.
The results were not bad at all. The album opens with "The Score", a nine-minute-plus song which treats us to over four minutes of synthesizers and prog before the vocals come in. It goes through a couple of themes during those four minutes, and one might even start to wonder if they'd had the guts to open this new album with a nine-minute instrumental. "The Score" is not instrumental, but it does have a lot of old-school ELP trademarks, a few direct musical references to earlier works, and the lyrics even include "It's been so long, so welcome back, my friends, to the show that never ends!" ELP were back.
"Learning to Fly" is a somewhat different ELP song. It's a shorter piece, just under four minutes, and it's obviously not a Lake ballad; it's more a collaboration in the tradition of "Knife-Edge" or "Bitches Crystal". But it's not really a balls-out rocker, as its predecessors were. It therefore breaks new ground, thus the double meaning of its title. It's a pretty good song, and features lots of tasty synth work by Emerson.
"Learning to Fly" seques directly into "The Miracle", another longish song. Once again, we have Keith's wall of synths, Lake's voice (enriched by lots of reverb, as it is on the whole album), and more powerful drumming by Cozy Powell. Musically, it's quite good, though the lyrics, as with so many previous ELP songs, are the weak link. Also, by this point, we've heard three songs with plenty of great synth patches and great drumming, but they're mostly the same synth patches and same great drumming. Impressive, but there needs to be more variety.
"Touch and Go" changes things up. Emerson introduces a new brassy synth patch, and Lake's rhymed triplets, quadruplets, quintuplets and yes, even sextuplets get to be a bit much, but it's a shorter song that goes through a couple of changes, and was even a minor radio hit, peaking at #60 on the Billboard Hot 100.
"Love Blind" is the Lake love song. You knew there had to be one, and here it is. But again, they've changed things up a bit. It's not a ballad; it's quite uptempo and very much keyboard driven, rather than guitar driven, with Cozy's driving drums moving things along. And at only three minutes, it doesn't overstay its welcome. Not a great song, but not horrible, and yet another unique entry in the ELP catalogue.
Rather than a honky-tonk number, we have "Step Aside". The backdrop is Keith's jazzy piano, shuffling along in something like a 1940's film noir feel, evoking dark wet streets, overcoats, and cigarettes. It even has some clichéd (but well incorporated) whistling towards the end. If they'd cut the reverb down to about 1/3 of what they've used here, it would be a perfect period piece.
"Lay Down Your Guns" seems to be a call for world peace or something. I've never really listened to the lyrics. What always catches my attention is the synth patch that Emerson uses for the solo. It's clearly evocative of an electric guitar, and by this point, you're wondering if there is any guitar on this album. The appearance of Greg's acoustic or electric, preferably both, is always welcome. ELP is a keyboard-driven band, but there's nothing wrong with some variety, and this album actually suffers from a bit too much homogeneity.
Closing things out, we have the classical adaptation. From Gustav Holst's The Planets, we have "Mars, the Bringer of War". As with most of the ELP instrumental adaptations, classical fans probably appreciate this one more than others, but perhaps a bit more than usual in this case. "Mars" is a very intense piece in 5/4, but by about halfway through, you realize that what seemed like buildup was actually all you're getting. It never really breaks out into anything. It keeps up the intense, heavy buildup, and has a few bars of insanity, then returns to the heavy buildup again. It's an odd piece. As it happens, I recently played it for the first time in a concert band setting, and I didn't like it any better that way.
The original CD had a bonus track, an instrumental cover of Gerry Goffin & Carole King's "The Loco-Motion". Another slightly odd choice, it starts like it's going be a balls-out instrumental screamer, then "settles" for a very heavy version of a 60's pop song. Great playing, just a somewhat strange choice for an instrumental.
Later CD pressings added a second bonus track, "Vacant Possession". I have to be honest; if there was one song to leave off of the original album, it would be this one. A slow, moody piece, it just never seems to go anywhere.
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And there you have it. ELP were back. With a different drummer, too much reverb on the vocals, and the synth/guitar balance not quite right (I don't actually hear any guitar, though Lake is credited as playing guitar), but overall this is a pretty good album. It starts strong and packs a punch, and it has some variety and even shows that ELP had a few new tricks up their sleeves.
I'm not usually one to point out how "dated" something sounds, usually because I never notice it, but in trying to think of what bothers me the most about this album, it's the production. Very 80's sounding, with booming drums and echoing vocals, and great-sounding synths all smoothed over into a thick paste as backdrop for the vocals. If you like 80's production, you'll be in heaven here. The playing is great, the music is pretty top-notch. This is definitely a step up from Love Beach, and a return to form for ELP. Stylistically, I'd put it somewhere in the middle of the 70's output, only slightly lower in terms of quality.
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There is nothing I can say about Love Beach that hasn't already been said, but it is simply the worst album any of the big prog bands of the 70s did. They would have to have gained half an ass to be said they were half assing it. Memoirs of An Officer and A Gentleman is okay, the rest is total dreck.
Emerson Lake and Powell, however, I loved when it came out. Mainly because Cozy Powell is one of the drummers on my personal drummer Mount Rushmore, but there's a lot to like about it in general, once you get past the now dated production style. Which wasn't a problem back then, since EVERYTHING sounded like this and, as 80s productions go, this was a pretty good one. The Score is a great tune, on par with their 70s material, and I have a soft spot for Touch And Go. Emerson's particularly great on this album, and while Cozy Powell doesn't have the same style that Carl Palmer did, he's a fantastic drummer and easily keeps up with Emerson and Lake. It's a shame they only did the one album...them and GTR man, it must have been something in the water for old prog rockers in 1986 or so...because as good as this one was, a follow up, with the trio used to each other, likely would have matched ELP's 70s output. Ah well, at least we have this one.
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Emerson Lake & Palmer broke up after Love Beach. I can't find any references to a tour, and it is known that they left the Bahamas separately, and that there had been a growing rift between Emerson and Lake since the Works days, so I don't think there was a Love Beach tour. The next release was a live album, but it was from the Works tour. That album officially fulfilled their contract to Atlantic Recording, but they had already gone their separate ways.
Keith Emerson went on to compose a number of movie soundtracks, including Sylvester Stallone's Nighthawks, and Dario Argento's Inferno and World of Horror.
Greg Lake embarked on a solo career, releasing two albums, Greg Lake in 1981 and Manoeuvres in 1983.
Carl Palmer was a founding member of Asia, along with John Wetton, most recently with the 70's King Crimson, and Steve Howe and Geoff Downes, together in Yes prior to their breakup following Drama. John Wetton left the original Asia in 1983, and was replaced by none other than Greg Lake. Wetton and Lake were therefore each the singer/bassist for two different bands (King Crimson and Asia) at different times. Though it was not promoted as such at the time, Lake's tenure in Asia is now referred to as a "temporary" gig, and Lake left Asia shortly after.
By 1985, Emerson wasn't getting many movie score contracts and Lake was looking for another gig as well, as his solo career had stalled. They put their differences aside and decided to make a new album together. As Carl Palmer was still in Asia and therefore unavailable, the album was going to be titled Emerson-Lake.
They did need a drummer, however. Emerson called upon his longtime friend Cozy Powell, who was well regarded in the rock business, having played with Jeff Beck, Rainbow, Whitesnake, Black Sabbath, and others. He had a strong presence on the drum kit, and also happened to have a last name that started with "P". The new album was therefore:
Emerson, Lake & Powell (1986)
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/426487_4510122553073_329762364_n.jpg)
Keith Emerson: Keyboards
Greg Lake: Bass, Guitar, Vocals
Cozy Powell: Drums, Percussion
The Score 9:10
Learning to Fly 3:52
The Miracle 7:02
Touch and Go 3:25
Love Blind 3:08
Step Aside 3:42
Lay Down Your Guns 4:20
Mars, the Bringer of War 7:53
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I'm glad you mentioned "the contractual obligation album" otherwise originally known as "In Concert" which features songs live that would never appear anywhere else on a live commercial release and prove that this band hat this time had few musical peers. True that not much was done creatively except for Love Beach, this band still brings it live.
Don't think so?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_db0omTxVs
As far as the break-up is concerned. Carl always seems to tell the story that there was know break up officially. They just left that island and never got back together. There wasn't anything said, supposedly. It just happened.
I'm pretty sure Carl Palmer released the album1 p.m. at this time, which is a lot more starightforward than his work with ELP. To be honest I don't really listen to it very much, maybe once a year.
I prefer Emerson's soundtrack albums. Never picked up Nighthawks, but I picked up Inferno, World of Horror, Honky, Murderrock and La Cheisa. I also have The Emerson Collection which is kind of a greatest hits of some of his soundtrack work.
Never got into anything Greg Lake solo.
Love the Asia stuff too.
I like ELPowell a lot myself. Saw a show on that tour (Yngwie was supposed to open but got himself booted off of the tour for reasons I was never able to find out.)
If you like this album, you may want to check out The Sprocket Sessions and Live In Concert: The Official Bootleg.
Also as a matter of housekeeping the original CD did not include those two bonus tracks.
I had to rebuy it when it was reissued with the bonus tracks on there. I remember not being very happy about that at the time.
One other thing, Who else but ELPowell would have the balls to puit out an album like that in 1986? Could that have been any more unfashionable? I not complaining at all, but that has always amused me.
Would have loved to get another album.
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That's weird. I had a friend who bought the ELPowell CD right when it came out, or so he said. It had "The Loco-Motion" but not "Vacant Possession". All the info I can find indicates that the later CDs had both, but I know that the CD my friend had had nine tracks and "The Loco-Motion" was the bonus track.
But what you're saying is that the original CDs didn't have either track. So there are three versions of the CD?
I didn't realize that Carl did any solo albums. It's definitely a failing on my part, but I never even checked, and nothing I've dug up has mentioned anything about them. This is the first I've heard.
I guess it's pretty obvious that I only followed ELP up through Love Beach. I figured they were through after that (and for a while, I was right). I've been trying to find out what I can about what they've done since, but I'm apparently not the only one who just isn't that interested.
Funny how Carl says that they didn't break up, they just stopped working together.
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That's weird. I had a friend who bought the ELPowell CD right when it came out, or so he said. It had "The Loco-Motion" but not "Vacant Possession". All the info I can find indicates that the later CDs had both, but I know that the CD my friend had had nine tracks and "The Loco-Motion" was the bonus track.
But what you're saying is that the original CDs didn't have either track. So there are three versions of the CD?
i don't know. I bought the vinyl first and picked up the CD a few weeks later on the Polydor label. The only reason I knew there were even bonus tracks, actually I only thought there was one bonus track-"The Loco-Motion" because I walked into one of the many cool independent record stroes that used to be around and saw a promotional 12 inch (which I never bought because at the time I thought $20 was too much for an unreleased single.)
I never realized there was a second bonus track until I saw the reissue (which I bought in 1992) and sold the original CD.
I didn't realize that Carl did any solo albums. It's definitely a failing on my part, but I never even checked, and nothing I've dug up has mentioned anything about them. This is the first I've heard.
I guess it's pretty obvious that I only followed ELP up through Love Beach. I figured they were through after that (and for a while, I was right). I've been trying to find out what I can about what they've done since, but I'm apparently not the only one who just isn't that interested.
Funny how Carl says that they didn't break up, they just stopped working together.
Well, Carl was also involved with something called the Quango project (which I don't have) --I think this was after he left Asia.
Then he's got a compilation album from all of his projects called "Do Ya Want To Play Carl?" and three volumes of live albums with his Carl Palmer Band (now called Carl palmer's Legacy band)
Emerson has his Keith Emerson Band and they have released a few recent albums including a live one.I have his Christmas album too.
Have no idea what Greg LaKe has been up to creatively. I think he played with the late Gary Moore in the '80s.
I'd love to find out exactly how the band dissolved as far as the buisness arrangement is concerned. There must have been some acknowledgement that they were done at some point.
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Have either of you guys (ytserush or Jaq) or anyone else found any guitar on this album? Lake is credited with vocals and guitar, but I honestly can't find any. If there is any, it's mixed in with the keyboards for texture or something.
And Jaq, you're right. The 80's production wasn't a problem then because everything sounded like this in the 80's. I love Greg's voice, and hearing it booming and echoing like that is really impressive, but it gets distracting after a while, and downright annoying (to me) shortly thereafter.
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Have either of you guys (ytserush or Jaq) or anyone else found any guitar on this album? Lake is credited with vocals and guitar, but I honestly can't find any. If there is any, it's mixed in with the keyboards for texture or something.
And Jaq, you're right. The 80's production wasn't a problem then because everything sounded like this in the 80's. I love Greg's voice, and hearing it booming and echoing like that is really impressive, but it gets distracting after a while, and downright annoying (to me) shortly thereafter.
I think so. There's not a lot if there is. I'm thinking Love Blind right now, but that's really a shot in the dark. It's been a few months since I've listened to it. Might be harmonics?
Good question. Looks like I have a mission this weekend.
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I have searched for the guitar on this album for years and haven't found it. If it's there, it's being overpowered by an identical synth line. I used to think I was missing it because when it came out I owned a lousy stereo, but I can't find it on much better sound systems.
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Despite some ELP fans' negative feeling toward this album, I still like Lay Down Your Guns and Mars, the Bringer of War off this album... oh, and I believe I got it for just $3 bucks in either 1993 or 1994! GREAT value! :lol
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I like ELPowell a lot myself. Saw a show on that tour (Yngwie was supposed to open but got himself booted off of the tour for reasons I was never able to find out.)
Just popped in to say that I saw this tour at the Providence Performing Arts Center on 9/15/86.
You are right about Yngwie. Originally this show was at the providence Civic Center. I actually pulled a second row seat for it. Then due to lack of sales, they moved it to the PPAC. Plus, not only did I lose my second row seat, but Yngwie was off the bill too.
But I still went, and even not knowing hardly any ELP, other than what was on the radio, it was a really enjoyable show.
Even met Cozy powell after the show and he signed my ticket!
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/ELP1.jpg)
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/ELP3.jpg)
(https://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z246/TACPics/ELP2.jpg)
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Sweet! :tup
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*still waiting on the Black Moon update* :biggrin:
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Dude, that's not even the next entry. 3 to the Power of Three is next.
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UGH. I am still not sure why albums that aren't even by Emerson, Lake & Palmer are being included, but it's your thing, so whatever. ;)
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There's only three guys in the band, and if two of them get together with some other guy, and the basic band dynamic is clearly the same, then I consider them a very close offshoot, essentially the same band with one substitution. I included ABWH in the Yes discography for the same reason despite the word "Yes" not appearing on the cover. ELPowell and 3 are both clearly part of the evolution of Emerson Lake & Palmer.
The idea is not simply to discuss the material on the albums, but also how the band and their music have changed over the years, due to changes in the music landscape, changes in personnel, and anything else.
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Emerson, Lake & Powell toured their one and only album, playing material from that album and also some Emerson Lake & Palmer material, but there were some problems, and they ended up firing their management. Cozy Powell left and Carl Palmer actually came back for a while, so it was a bona fide Emerson Lake & Palmer reunion, but the old Emerson-Lake tensions returned and ELP self-destructed again before getting anywhere near a studio or a stage.
But with Asia on hiatus, Carl Palmer was ready to play with Keith Emerson again, so they enlisted singer/bassist/guitarist Robert Berry and continued on. Without even the initials ELP in their favor, and the idea of calling the band Emerson, Berry & Palmer apparently distasteful, they settled on the name 3.
3 to the Power of Three (1988)
(https://i.imgur.com/X2whins.jpg)
Robert Berry: Bass, Guitar, Vocals
Keith Emerson: Keyboards
Carl Palmer: Drums, Percussion
Talkin' 'bout 4:02
Lover to Lover 4:11
Chains 3:42
Desde la Vida 7:08
La Vista
Frontera
Sangre De Toro
Eight Miles High 4:11
Runaway 4:44
You Do or You Don't 5:06
On My Way Home 4:46
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Whereas Emerson, Lake & Powell had essentially the classic ELP sound, updated for the 80's, 3 to the Power of Three was clearly shooting for something else. Something like what Yes and Genesis did in order to stay current and actually sell records, which ultimately is what bands have to do, the band 3 stripped away most of the prog and instead went for a pop sound, here based on keyboards, heavy drumming, and the occassional guitar.
Now here's the surprise: This isn't a completely horrible album, as far as 80's pop goes. Berry's voice reminds me of someone, but after listening to this album four times, I still can't think of who it is. It's something like Lou Gramm from Foreigner or maybe Richard Page from Mr. Mister. A rock tenor voice with just a bit of depth to it, so you don't realize how high it is until you try to sing along. Emerson's keyboards make a surprisingly good pop backdrop; he learned something from the Love Beach experience, and also Emerson, Lake & Powell, and honestly, between Berry's soaring voice, Emerson's keyboards, and Palmer's presence on the drums, it's easy to forget that this is 80's pop without guitars. Weird, huh?
The album opens strongly, with the Berry-penned single "Talkin' 'Bout" (#9 on Billboard's Mainstream Rock Tracks chart) and the group composition "Lover to Lover" which is, yes, as cheesy as the title suggests, but the music is good so what the heck.
"Chains" is pretty weak, and the only song by outside writers (who I've never heard of and won't bother naming here).
The highlight of the album is the three-part suite "Desde la Vida" which features a great instrumental break and, as always, some great keyboards and powerful drumming.
Side Two opens with a rather strange choice: a cover of The Byrds' "Eight Miles High". The classic hook line has been replaced by a strange, syncopated line by Emerson, although the hook does appear on Hammond during the break.
The rest of the album fizzles out a bit, with the remaining three tracks pretty much filler. "Runaway" and "You Do or You Don't" are both by Robert Berry, and aren't really bad, just not any better than most 80's pop. The closer, "On My Way Home" is credited solely to Emerson, making it one of the few songs (as opposed to instrumentals) written by Keith. Like the rest of Side Two, it's not bad, just nothing special.
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The problem is that "Emerson Lake & Palmer" was both the band name and the names of its members. When your band is named Yes or Genesis, you can have members come and go (or just go) and your sound can change over time, and people might make some association between the two, or maybe not. But if you're Emerson Lake & Palmer and Palmer isn't there, or Lake is off pouting again, then you have to get someone else in the band, and you can't call it Emerson Lake & Palmer.
3 to the Power of Three will bother most progheads, unless they also have a tolerance for late-80's pop. Most of this album reminds me of Foreigner from the same period. I didn't like this album when I first heard it (again through my former neighbor, the same guy who lent me his copy of Emerson, Lake & Powell) but if you stop trying to judge it based on its prog roots and accept it for the pop that it is, it's not bad. How not-bad is it? I've had some of the songs stuck in my head for the past few days, and actually wanted to hear them again.
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The best Robert Berry related ELP music are the songs he produced and played guitar and bass on on Magna Catra's ELP tribute album. I've tried more than once to get into this album and it just never clicks for me. Maybe if I approach it as not being part of the ELP story it'll have more luck.
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Yeah, tribute albums seem to be Berry's specialty now, which I find kinda weird.
I honestly didn't expect to like 3 to the Power of Three, and I didn't "try" to like it, but I did try to keep an open mind about it. After a couple of listens, I was getting into it, and after a couple more, the weaknesses also became more apparent. It's not "really" ELP, but I consider it close enough that it makes sense to include it here.
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Emerson, Berry & Palmer toured as 3, playing songs from 3 to the Power of Three and some older ELP material. But since Robert Berry's voice was so different from Greg Lake's, the ELP material was all performed as instrumentals. After the conclusion of the tour, they went their separate ways.
In 1991, Emerson Lake & Palmer decided to give it another shot. Carl Palmer was still working with Asia, but divided his time between Asia and ELP. Eventually, he left Asia to participate full time in the ELP reunion tour. In June of that year, two albums were released featuring Carl Palmer on drums. They were Asia's latest, Aqua, and
Emerson Lake & Palmer: Black Moon (1992)
(https://i.imgur.com/TeTJjf7.jpg)
Black Moon 6:56
Paper Blood 4:26
Affairs of the Heart 3:46
Romeo and Juliet 3:40
Farewell to Arms 5:08
Changing States 6:01
Burning Bridges 4:41
Close to Home 4:27
Better Days 5:33
Footprints in the Snow 3:50
Keith, Greg, and Carl had been through a lot in the 14 years since the last Emerson Lake & Palmer album. The music scene had also changed a lot during that same time. Keith had learned to use his keyboards in a way which better supported more commercial music, Carl's thunderous style of drumming was actually pretty popular at the time, but most notably, Greg's voice had continued to deepen as he got older. He'd gone from a tenor to a baritone. The new album utilized these changes as strengths, creating a big, powerful sound which you would not guess was made by three people.
Black Moon opens with two songs credited to Emerson, Lake, and Palmer. This was the first and last time this ever happened, but apparently the idea was to put forth a united front. The two band-written pieces, "Black Moon" and "Paper Blood" are also two of the stronger tracks on the album. Both feature Lake's lyrics which tend to sound good but not make a lot of literal sense. (No one knows what "Black Moon" means, but "Paper Blood" is a metaphor for money.)
"Affairs of the Heart" is left over from an aborted project between Greg Lake and Geoff Downes while Asia was on hiatus. It's a typical Greg Lake ballad, maybe a little sappier than most. When Asia reformed in 1988, they had six songs written, and this was one of them.
Since this is a genuine Emerson Lake & Palmer album, there had to be a classical adaptation, so "Dance of the Knights" from Prokofief's ballet Romeo and Juliet became simply "Romeo and Juliet" here. It features a great lead synth patch, but it gets a little repetitive, waiting a bit too long to introduce the second theme, and ends up seeming longer than its 3:40 length.
"Farewell to Arms" is an Emerson-Lake song, an idealistic song about an end to war. I always get it confused with "Lay Down Your Guns" from Emerson, Lake & Powell.
"Changing States" is the second of three instrumentals on this album, and the only really uptempo one. It moves right along and sounds rather like a fanfare or the theme from a TV sports highlights show, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's a fast-moving, exciting little tune, and goes through a few changes, but at six minutes, it might be just a bit too much of a good thing.
"Burning Bridges" is confusing. It's the only song in the ELP catalogue proper which isn't either written by one or more members of ELP or a cover of a classical work. "Burning Bridges" is a song by Mike Mancina, known mostly for his work on Hollywood movies. He collaborated with Phil Collins on the soundtracks for Disney's Tarzan and Brother Bear, and did the scores for Speed, Bad Boys, and Twister. The only real mystery is why one of his songs in on an ELP album.
"Close to Home" is the third instrumental. A solo piano piece by Keith Emerson, this is beautiful, romantic etude in the classical style, but with a few contemporary twists and turns. I've been trying to figure out who it reminds me of, but basically it's Keith Emerson, and it's a blend of some of his styles and influences. It's probably my favorite Emerson piano solo. Really.
Emerson-Lake's "Better Days" and Lake's mellow "Footprints in the Snow" finish out the album. They're not bad songs, just not particularly memorable. "Footprints in the Snow" is pretty nice.
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Let's face it, the boys were getting older and running out of steam in a few departments, but still had a few tricks left in them. With Greg's voice noticeably deeper, they tried to play to this as a strength, and it does sound good for the most part. But overall, they went for the "heavy, driving" sound which characterized Emerson, Lake & Powell because they were no longer capable of doing the "insane, atonal" ELP of years gone by, and it's a bit obvious. Keith's keyboards sound great, with greater diversity and texture than ever before, and Carl's drumming is rock-solid, as usual.
Overall, Black Moon is not a bad album, and a pretty good comeback album for ELP. But I'd be lying if I said it rivaled the ELP of old.
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I love this album, and while I will freely admit that nostalgia is a big part of it - I got into ELP with this album - I still think it holds up well. Every song is good, and the majority of them range from very good to great, the best ones being Paper Blood, Romeo and Juliet, Farewell to Arms, Changing States and Close to Home. I also adore the beauty of something like Footprints in the Snow.
Emerson's blistering solo at the end of Farewell to Arms is one of my favorites by him.
I remember when I took a college course that was an intro to playing piano (or something like that), we were all allowed to bring in one song one day, and I brought in Close to Home; the instructor was pretty much blown away by it.
I love how Changing States sounds like something that should be played when showing great moments from the Olympics. :lol :tup :tup
I get why some are not overly crazy about this CD; it's not very proggy, Lake's voice is different, and it just doesn't sound like the classic ELP many knew and loved. But as an 18-year old who had never heard them before, I thought this was great, and so did my girlfriend at the time. In fact, we both owned a copy of the CD, and she even went with me and a group of friends to see them that summer. Good times. :hat
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Okay, that was unexpected. I knew you were anxious to get to this one, though I didn't know why. But the 3 to the Power of Three discussion didn't go anywhere (only one person here has even heard the album?) so what the heck, on we go.
But a positive review of this album? That was unexpected. As much as I keep reminding myself that each album, each work by any artist, should be judged on its own merit and not relative to the artist's body of work, I find myself not always taking that advice. It's hard. But now I think I finally know how to do it. Start with "What if this was the first thing you ever heard by this artist?" Literally a fresh set of ears, free from the prejudice imposed by knowing everything that Emerson Lake & Palmer had done prior to this point.
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Things tended to slip my notice in the early 90s for a lot of reasons, the main being that the drinking that made a great many of the stories I tell about the 80s in the MTV thread so funny had grown to be a problem. My Behind The Music period was the chief reason why I wasn't even aware, until around 2001 or so, that ELP had had a reunion in the 90s, let alone put out two albums. It simply flew right by me. So I arrived to Black Moon very late.
Part of me is glad I did.
Sometimes you get reunions that match or even exceed the power of the original. Deep Purple in the 80s leaps to mind there. ELP's reunion doesn't hit those heights. Black Moon feels safe and perfunctory, the band going through the motions because, well, they re-united, need new product to tour behind, but it's the same safe, almost bland at times product that marked the 3 album and is in Emerson Lake and Powell on occasion, though I like that album. Interestingly enough, had the ELP reunion happened a few years later, when a great many AOR and prog rock bands of the 70s started making touring comebacks, I think the band would have fared better, and possibly could have gotten by with a reunion live album. I'm not saying that ELP should have come out, all guns blazing with mid-70s weirdness, mind you, but there could have been more adventure here. This album's just...safe.
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I have never got the love for Black Moon. It has its share of fans, obviously, but most of them seem to be people who wanted to give ELP a whirl and bought it by accident, like Kev :biggrin:
Anyway, I haven't been avoiding this thread, but I just haven't really heard much Emerson Lake & Powell, and I still don't really know/care what "3 to the Power of 3" is, so I really had nothing to bring to those discussions.
I will post actual thoughts in this thread soon.
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There's only three guys in the band, and if two of them get together with some other guy, and the basic band dynamic is clearly the same, then I consider them a very close offshoot, essentially the same band with one substitution. I included ABWH in the Yes discography for the same reason despite the word "Yes" not appearing on the cover. ELPowell and 3 are both clearly part of the evolution of Emerson Lake & Palmer.
The idea is not simply to discuss the material on the albums, but also how the band and their music have changed over the years, due to changes in the music landscape, changes in personnel, and anything else.
Agreed. A little context never hurt anyone.
Here's VERY little of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prB8FIx3fj0
I have searched for the guitar on this album for years and haven't found it. If it's there, it's being overpowered by an identical synth line. I used to think I was missing it because when it came out I owned a lousy stereo, but I can't find it on much better sound systems.
Negative for me too, but I only did one pass through.
Tim, those are awesome photos. I wished I brought my camera that night.
I did buy a shirt (the 3/4 baseball sleeve) then that my 14-year-old absconded with last year.
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Emerson, Lake & Powell toured their one and only album, playing material from that album and also some Emerson Lake & Palmer material, but there were some problems, and they ended up firing their management. Cozy Powell left and Carl Palmer actually came back for a while, so it was a bona fide Emerson Lake & Palmer reunion, but the old Emerson-Lake tensions returned and ELP self-destructed again before getting anywhere near a studio or a stage.
But with Asia on hiatus, Carl Palmer was ready to play with Keith Emerson again, so they enlisted singer/bassist/guitarist Robert Berry and continued on. Without even the initials ELP in their favor, and the idea of calling the band Emerson, Berry & Palmer apparently distasteful, they settled on the name 3.
3 to the Power of Three (1988)
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/563428_4538916592906_746050240_n.jpg)
Robert Berry: Bass, Guitar, Vocals
Keith Emerson: Keyboards
Carl Palmer: Drums, Percussion
I love this album too. I suppose you could call it Asia-lite except it really doesn't sound much like Asia.
I was dressed in all the acoutraments that you needed to get a shot in the late '80s, but not many noticed.
Like the album before it, the single got some airplay but instead of arenas, the band played theaters and clubs, probably due to the name change as the Emerson/Palmer brand didn't carry the same weight of even a few years previous.
Strangely, this was my first exposure to Robert Berry and I think it's the best thing he's ever been involved with. I can't say I'm a fan of his cottage industry tribute work although I don't think he's a bad producer. I like his work with Tempest.
Somewhere around here of have 3's Rockline intervew on cassette along with their show at The Ritz (Where Dream Theater would open for Marillion about a year later)
I think this may have also been around the time that Keith Emerson became aware of Kevin Gilbert.
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Emerson, Berry & Palmer toured as 3, playing songs from 3 to the Power of Three and some older ELP material. But since Robert Berry's voice was so different from Greg Lake's, the ELP material was all performed as instrumentals. After the conclusion of the tour, they went their separate ways.
In 1991, Emerson Lake & Palmer decided to give it another shot. Carl Palmer was still working with Asia, but divided his time between Asia and ELP. Eventually, he left Asia to participate full time in the ELP reunion tour. In June of that year, two albums were released featuring Carl Palmer on drums. They were Asia's latest, Aqua, and
Emerson Lake & Palmer: Black Moon (1992)
Black Moon 6:56
Paper Blood 4:26
Affairs of the Heart 3:46
Romeo and Juliet 3:40
Farewell to Arms 5:08
Changing States 6:01
Burning Bridges 4:41
Close to Home 4:27
Better Days 5:33
Footprints in the Snow 3:50
I couldn't believe it when I found out these guys were getting back together. I'll admit I was expecting ELP unbridled, but it didn't quite work out that way.
This album is kind of ELP at half-speed. fortunately the creative juices were still there and this album probably deserved a better fate. There's a lot to like here even if it lumbers in places.
As I understand it a friend of the band's in the industry asked if they would do a soundtrack for a movie but when they got together to write they all felt they should write an album instead and scrapped the soundtrack idea.
This is also the point where their new record label bought their old catalog and reissued everything for the first time and also issued their first box set Return Of The Manticore which features the band doing a track each from the members bands before they joined ELP. Their old label, Atlantic, also decided to take advantage of this by issuing a 2-disc compilation.
I saw them on this tour and the next one for the live album and that was it for me. It was sad for me to watch the band live during these years and decided I couldn't see them perform as a band again if the opportunity ever came up.
This is the end of the live line for me. I have a few live recordings from this period, but the rest are from the salad days when very few could touch this band live.
Bob..here's a little something you might enjoy.
I was floored by it myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6pjN9Id-jw
Nothing Jordan couldn't handle on his own....
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Man, it's always dangerous when people post YouTube links. I almost never think of searching for them myself, but I always see things along the right side that look interesting and end up spending way too much time watching videos.
The VeeJays clip was fun. I don't think I saw that when it was originally on. Then I watched ELP on The Tonight Show, then some Karn Evil 9 rehearsal, then I had to stop myself.
The Orchestrated Tarkus was cool. I've heard it before, but never saw it live like that. Too bad they did the "live" version rather than the studio version, or something like that. I like how it really cranks on the live album, but there's still something more powerful and ominous about playing it at the slower tempo, and I think for having an entire orchestra, there could have been more power. There are important lines and countermelodies that you can't hear. With 100 musicians, there's no excuse for not covering all the parts. But it was cool that they did it.
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Okay, that was unexpected. I knew you were anxious to get to this one, though I didn't know why. But the 3 to the Power of Three discussion didn't go anywhere (only one person here has even heard the album?) so what the heck, on we go.
I don't know any of the 80s "ELP" stuff, so I didn't comment on them.
But a positive review of this album? That was unexpected. As much as I keep reminding myself that each album, each work by any artist, should be judged on its own merit and not relative to the artist's body of work, I find myself not always taking that advice. It's hard. But now I think I finally know how to do it. Start with "What if this was the first thing you ever heard by this artist?" Literally a fresh set of ears, free from the prejudice imposed by knowing everything that Emerson Lake & Palmer had done prior to this point.
That can be difficult to do, but I agree that that is a good attitude to take going into an album.
Sometimes you get reunions that match or even exceed the power of the original. Deep Purple in the 80s leaps to mind there. ELP's reunion doesn't hit those heights. Black Moon feels safe and perfunctory, the band going through the motions because, well, they re-united, need new product to tour behind, but it's the same safe, almost bland at times product that marked the 3 album and is in Emerson Lake and Powell on occasion, though I like that album. Interestingly enough, had the ELP reunion happened a few years later, when a great many AOR and prog rock bands of the 70s started making touring comebacks, I think the band would have fared better, and possibly could have gotten by with a reunion live album. I'm not saying that ELP should have come out, all guns blazing with mid-70s weirdness, mind you, but there could have been more adventure here. This album's just...safe.
I agree that the album is safe, but look at this way: even amongst a lot of that instrumental craziness in the early 70s, their songs almost always had very strong vocal melodies. And we got those on Black Moon, too. We just didn't get the extended crazy instrumental stuff. So, it's like ELP without the craziness, which seems like blasphemy, as that craziness was their bread and butter, so I get why the album is a turnoff for a lot of people.
I saw them on this tour and the next one for the live album and that was it for me. It was sad for me to watch the band live during these years and decided I couldn't see them perform as a band again if the opportunity ever came up.
Funny you say that, as I saw them on that tour, too, and I thought they were great. Of course, I didn't have any frame of reference at the time, and, sure, when I got more into them and heard and saw some of their live stuff from the 70s, they were on a whole different plane then, but they were still pretty great on that tour in '92. I saw them in the later 90s as well, and while I enjoyed that concert, they did seem pretty subdued by their standards, but on the comeback tour? No way.
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Okay, two big problems here:
1. The production is awful. I really can't stand the 80's vibes. I guess if you like 80's pop, it's OK, but I don't really, and I don't think it works well with ELP music at all.
2. Despite some interesting stuff going on musically, the songs are just not good. Lyrics and songwriting were never Lake's strong point, but on the classic ELP albums you could always expect the trio to knock it out of the park at least once or twice, at least musically if not lyrically. Everything on Black Moon seems mediocre. It's not offensively bad like "Love Beach", but it's not good either.
I kinda consider "Black Moon" to be the typical reunion album, similar to Yes' return to prog in the 90's. It's OK, but it's kinda like the stuff from the 70s, just less inspired and energetic overall, and sprinkled with absolute crap. You have to REALLY love the band to like those kinds of albums. And the personalities of Yes, I think, are a lot more loveable than ELP.
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And the personalities of Yes, I think, are a lot more loveable than ELP.
That's not saying much, but neither band has guys I would call "loveable" (in the musicians' personality sense). Howe, Squire and Wakeman have all struck me as being obnoxious dicks at one time or another.
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Man, it's always dangerous when people post YouTube links. I almost never think of searching for them myself, but I always see things along the right side that look interesting and end up spending way too much time watching videos.
The VeeJays clip was fun. I don't think I saw that when it was originally on. Then I watched ELP on The Tonight Show, then some Karn Evil 9 rehearsal, then I had to stop myself.
The Orchestrated Tarkus was cool. I've heard it before, but never saw it live like that. Too bad they did the "live" version rather than the studio version, or something like that. I like how it really cranks on the live album, but there's still something more powerful and ominous about playing it at the slower tempo, and I think for having an entire orchestra, there could have been more power. There are important lines and countermelodies that you can't hear. With 100 musicians, there's no excuse for not covering all the parts. But it was cool that they did it.
I search for random stuff once in a while. I wish you tube would have a least popular setting. When I search I have to go through a lot of crap to get to things of interest.
You're right though. Pretty dangerous once you start
Quote from: ytserush on March 12, 2013, 08:43:47 PM
I saw them on this tour and the next one for the live album and that was it for me. It was sad for me to watch the band live during these years and decided I couldn't see them perform as a band again if the opportunity ever came up.
Funny you say that, as I saw them on that tour, too, and I thought they were great. Of course, I didn't have any frame of reference at the time, and, sure, when I got more into them and heard and saw some of their live stuff from the 70s, they were on a whole different plane then, but they were still pretty great on that tour in '92. I saw them in the later 90s as well, and while I enjoyed that concert, they did seem pretty subdued by their standards, but on the comeback tour? No way.
Frame of reference was that Emerson was suffering from medical issues with his hands. He tried. And Carl needed almost half the show to warm to make sure he shined during his solo. Of course ELP by half is still better than a lot of bands. But still sad to watch.
Perpetual Change:
I kinda consider "Black Moon" to be the typical reunion album, similar to Yes' return to prog in the 90's. It's OK, but it's kinda like the stuff from the 70s, just less inspired and energetic overall, and sprinkled with absolute crap. You have to REALLY love the band to like those kinds of albums. And the personalities of Yes, I think, are a lot more loveable than ELP.
What's a typical reunion album? You're talking about a 20 year span. People get older.
I wouldn't have brought personalities into it, but both bands came from the same scene and eventually became victims of industry excess like many other bands have.
And Love Beach is as good if not better than Black Moon. More than half of Love Beach is as good anything they'd done previously. Unfortunately, the rest is in the league of In The Hot Seat.
Sure the album cover of Love Beach sucks and might be the worst ever. (Carl still jokes about it) I think for every person that trashes that album that has listened to it, two or three never bothered after looking at the cover.
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If this is Keith Emerson playing Creole Dance at half speed, then sign me up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tv0lIo-O7bg#t=1340s
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Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)
(https://i.imgur.com/RAAe3RS.jpg)
Hand of Truth
Daddy
One By One
Heart on Ice
Thin Line
Man in the Long Black Coat
Change
Give Me a Reason to Stay
Gone Too Soon
Street War
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Black Moon may not have fully recaptured the glory days of Emerson, Lake & Palmer (note the comma which was now officially in the band name), but sales of the album were pretty good, no doubt boosted by the fact that it was their first album in 14 years, and the 1992-1993 world tours were successful enough to encourage ELP to make a follow-up album.
Say what you will about the quality of the songwriting on this album (and indeed much has been said), but ELP cannot be accused of repeating themselves, or resting on their laurels. Just as Genesis and Yes changed both their sound and approach to adapt to the changing musical climate, Emerson, Lake & Palmer did the same. Another album of ten songs, all in the four- to five-minute range, fusing simpler song structures with virtuoso playing. As with Black Moon, the songs on In the Hot Seat aren't particularly adventurous, but feature some new tricks, and continue to break new ground musically.
Sadly, it's usually a bad sign when an established band resorts to using outside writers. Either the band or the label is clearly hoping to score a hit, and willing to sacrifice the band's integrity to get it. Or maybe the band is just out of ideas and needs a spark from the outside to help get the job done, but that's not exactly a preferable scenario.
The album opens with a catchy, uptempo song called "Hand of Truth" featuring a fast keyboard lick as its hook. The song goes through a couple of changes before the vocals finally come in, over two minutes into its 5:22 length.
The momentum, unfortunately, is immediately halted by "Daddy", a song Greg Lake was inspired to write by the tragic kidnapping case of Sara Anne Wood. It's actually a pretty good song, but it's quite depressing, and feels like social commentary being that it's based on a true story, and it just seems incredibly out of place on an ELP album.
"One By One" is a medium rocker in 12/8, featuring Keith's first use of orchestral samples. Writing credit goes to Emerson, Lake, and someone named Keith Olsen, whose name appears in the credits for four of the songs on this album. My curiosity about this guy is simply not strong enough to overcome my laziness. (In other words, I'd love to tell you more about Keith Olsen, but I just don't care enough about him to look him up.)
"Heart on Ice" is a Lake ballad, with another co-writing credit to Keith Olsen. It's not one of Greg's better songs, and if that's Keith Olsen's fault, then it is. It reminds me of any of the countless 90's David Foster songs recorded by Chicago and/or sung by Peter Cetera.
"Thin Line" isn't too bad. It's a shuffle, something new for ELP, and is driven along quite nicely by Palmer's percussion. This one's credited to Emerson, Keith Olsen again, and someone named Bill Wray.
"Man in the Long Black Coat" is a cover of a Bob Dylan song. Yes, you read that correctly, Bob Dylan. No classical cover on this album, Bob Dylan instead. I told you they still had a few tricks left up their sleeves. I'm not familiar with the original, and I'm not a huge Dylan fan by any stretch of the imagination, but this song isn't horrible, and has a pretty cool synth sound that permeates the song.
"Change" is the other Emerson, Olsen, Wray composition, probably the lesser of the two. Pretty weak overall.
"Give Me a Reason to Stay" is credited to Steve Diamond and Sam Lorber. I have no idea who those guys are. The song is pretty basic 90's dreck and sounds nothing like anything Emerson or Lake would have written.
"Gone Too Soon" isn't too bad. At least it's uptempo, almost catchy, and has a cool synth solo. It's credited to Keith Wechsler, Greg Lake, and Bill Wray. Nope, I don't know who Keith Wechsler is.
The album closes with "Street War", the final Emerson-Lake composition. They could have gone out with a bang, or gone out with a clunker. Oddly enough, they did both. It's an uptempo song, and moves along nicely with Carl's backbeat and Greg's bass, but the refrain "Street War!" is clearly supposed to be a bit more exciting than it is, and the song overall is kinda silly. Nice synth work, and a weird breakdown in the middle that's almost kinda cool, but doesn't end up going anywhere.
And thus endeth the catalogue of Emerson, Lake & Palmer. Yeah, there's a comma now. Originally, the idea was to include only their names, and an ampersand to make it less awkward to pronounce, but by this point I guess they didn't care anymore. Someone included a comma in the cover art of Black Moon and no one caught it, and here it is again, and now no one cares.
Keith Emerson never stopped coming up with great synth sounds. They're all over this album. Carl Palmer never stopped being a force of nature on the drum kit. Both of those guys will always be favorites of mine on their respective instruments. Greg Lake's voice is actually stronger here than it was on Black Moon, though it's pretty clear that it will never regain the strength it had when he was in his prime.
No, the problem is that the guys ran out of ideas. Let's be honest, the songwriting was always the weak point of this band. It sure wasn't the playing. Their love of the classics was a great gimmick that took them farther than anyone could have guessed, but a band has to have original material. And they did have some great songs along the way. But they were down to writing maybe half the material, and with the mediocre sales of this album, the old tensions between Emerson and Lake returning once again, and all of them facing health issues (Emerson has had multiple surgeries for repetitive stress related injuries, Palmer has been treated for carpal tunnel syndrome, and Lake has apparently eaten several fans), it appears that the guys have finally called it quits.
Emerson, Lake & Palmer did reuinite one last time at the High Voltage Festival in 2011. Billed as the 40th Anniversary Reunion Concert, it's on DVD and Blu-ray if you're interested. I caught the (edited) TV broadcast, and it was pretty much what I expected: disappointing. Keith can still play, but he's clearly lost a lot of speed and mobility. Lake is so huge now that I was surprised that he could move at all. He played no guitar and very little bass, prefering to let Emerson's wall of keyboards provide the backdrop. His voice was pretty good, but this was a one-off show, not a tour, so this was as good as it gets now. Only Carl Palmer still had the fire. They should have called it the Farewell Concert, though I think many suspected that that's what it really was. So Farewell to Emerson Lake & Palmer. It was a good run.
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Keith Olsen was the producer of the album, and was responsible for, amongst other albums, Foreigner's Double Vision, which should tell you what you need to know about his background, mainly AOR and arena rock. He also produced the self titled Fleetwood Mac album-the one with Rhiannon- and produced the Rick Springfield album that produced Jessie's Girl as a single. So yes, his background wasn't really ELP's progressive rock style.
(Some people are into bands or particular musicians. I've got a thing for producers.)
And...not with a bang, but a whimper. The fate of all too many bands that burn as brightly as ELP did in the 70s, they tend to never be able recapture that flame once it burns out. This album has the excuse that both Emerson and Palmer were coming off medical issues and they were basically rushed to make this album, but that excuse only carries so far. Still, I guess it's best that this is the end, because it likely could have gotten worse.
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The cover of Man in the Long Black Coat is awful, Orb. Do yourself a favor and YouTube the original.
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Keith Olsen was the producer of the album, and was responsible for, amongst other albums, Foreigner's Double Vision, which should tell you what you need to know about his background, mainly AOR and arena rock. He also produced the self titled Fleetwood Mac album-the one with Rhiannon- and produced the Rick Springfield album that produced Jessie's Girl as a single. So yes, his background wasn't really ELP's progressive rock style.
Holy shit! I actually did look him up earlier in the week, when I was starting my research on this album, learned most of what you've written above, and completely forgot about it last night when I did the writeup. I forgot the facts, and even that I'd looked them up in the first place. It's been a hell of a week.
And...not with a bang, but a whimper. The fate of all too many bands that burn as brightly as ELP did in the 70s, they tend to never be able recapture that flame once it burns out. This album has the excuse that both Emerson and Palmer were coming off medical issues and they were basically rushed to make this album, but that excuse only carries so far. Still, I guess it's best that this is the end, because it likely could have gotten worse.
It was a combination of things. Prog wasn't cool any more, and the bands needed to get hip. Prog fans had been saying for years that their favorite bands could write Pop, they just chose to push themselves further. Well, it was time to put up or shut up, and it turned out that writing decent Pop was a lot harder than anyone thought. Bringing in help from outside wasn't necessarily a bad move, and some of these songs aren't completely horrible. Most have at least a few redeeming qualities. But overall, I don't think ELP were that interested in trying that hard to make it work. Emerson and Lake were back to their very contentious relationship, and working that hard to make music that wasn't really them just wasn't worth it.
The cover of Man in the Long Black Coat is awful, Orb. Do yourself a favor and YouTube the original.
I might sometime. But I'm not big on Dylan, so it would just be out of curiosity.
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I'm not sure people who say that are aware of the body of work Dylan created in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s. Not that anyone would like it per say, but usually when people are *sure* they don't like Dylan, it's actually the shrill-voiced folk music he made in the 60s that people are talking about, and usually people are very surprised to find out how much more there is. Certainly more than a band like Emerson Lake & Palmer could have hoped to ever offer :P
"Man in the Long Black Coat" is on Dylan's Oh Mercy album, from the mid 1980s. Dylan sings like a chain smoker, but many of the songs themselves are really very good, and kinda show an introspective moodier side that Dylan fans love but only seem to get once per decade.
One thing I've noticed is that no-one can seem to cover Dylan without trying way to hard to sound like him. ELP's "Man in the Long Black Coat" completely ruins the atmosphere of the original, but there you have Greg Lake rounding out his vowels and trying to phrase the lines like only Dylan really ever can.
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I was so excited when I saw that ELP had a new album out in 1994 (this was pre-internet for me, so I had no idea anything new was coming out), but when I got this and started listening, it was an immediate disappointment. Okay, I liked Hand of Truth and One by One quite a bit (and I still like them), but very little else was to my liking. I agree with Orbert that that synth that is consistent throughout the Dylan cover is very cool, but nothing else about the cover is memorable.
Anyway, very subpar album, for sure, but I still say that both Hand of Truth (featuring some dynamite piano work) and One by One (great outro) are both worthy ELP songs. It's just too bad that the rest of the album sucks.
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If this is Keith Emerson playing Creole Dance at half speed, then sign me up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tv0lIo-O7bg#t=1340s
I KNEW this was going to be from the CD/video (never upgraded to DVD on this one)
Consider yourself signed up!
Well he does top out at about three-quarters, but notice how he's really bearing down and not as effortless as it once was.
I'm a little surprised Live at Royal Albert Hall isn't being covered as it really is the last decent commercial ELP live album.
There is Live In Poland from the 1997-98 tour and of course that last High Voltage gig from 2010. I've got part of that Poland gig on the Then and Now CD which a bit rough on the ears after enjoying the live stuff from earlier in their career from the previous disc.
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Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/581658_4572633195800_1629365383_n.jpg)
Hand of Truth
Daddy
One By One
Heart on Ice
Thin Line
Man in the Long Black Coat
Change
Give Me a Reason to Stay
Gone Too Soon
Street War
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The ONLY reason I still have this is that I bought the Japanese import that has a decent 15 and a half minute version of Pictures At An Exhibition (can't remember from where this came from at the moment) and the instrumental Hammer It Out as bonus tracks.
Those are my rewards for getting through the rest of the album.
Are we stopping here or are we getting into the bevy of vintage live material that has been released in the years after this album came out?
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I have not heard much ELP Live. I do have the King Biscuit Flower Hour 2 disc set that was released in the mid-90's...how would you guys rate that against their other live material? Am I missing much? I really like the KBFH set...I just never bothered with anything else because that pretty much seems to cover it. (though I do understand that I *really need* to get WBMF, at least for Tarkus)
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ELP was my favorite band for a long time, but when they broke up after Love Beach, I moved on, and even though I checked out ELPowell and 3 to the Power of Three, for some reason I never got around to Black Moon or In the Hot Seat until this discography. Now I'm so distraught that I really don't see the point. I've checked out some of the live stuff that's been released recently, and there are of course countless compilations and box sets, and as far as I can tell, it's all crap.
So I'm just gonna leave it at that. R.I.P., ELP. If someone else wants to review any of the posthumous ELP releases, go ahead. I'm curious about what others think of them, but I can't find decent copies of them online, and I'm not gonna buy them, so I won't be able to write them up.
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If this is Keith Emerson playing Creole Dance at half speed, then sign me up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tv0lIo-O7bg#t=1340s
I KNEW this was going to be from the CD/video (never upgraded to DVD on this one)
Consider yourself signed up!
Well he does top out at about three-quarters, but notice how he's really bearing down and not as effortless as it once was.
Well, sure, but he was in his 40s by then, and you can't always beat Father Time, but he did an awesome job on that tour from what I remember seeing live and then on the concert video.
The ONLY reason I still have this is that I bought the Japanese import that has a decent 15 and a half minute version of Pictures At An Exhibition (can't remember from where this came from at the moment) and the instrumental Hammer It Out as bonus tracks.
The U.S. version had that new version of Pictures..., too, but not that other song. The new version of Pictures... was also included on that box set they released a year or two later. Very good, albeit condensed, version, although it is hard to beat the rawness and intensity of the original.
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If this is Keith Emerson playing Creole Dance at half speed, then sign me up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tv0lIo-O7bg#t=1340s
I KNEW this was going to be from the CD/video (never upgraded to DVD on this one)
Consider yourself signed up!
Well he does top out at about three-quarters, but notice how he's really bearing down and not as effortless as it once was.
Well, sure, but he was in his 40s by then, and you can't always beat Father Time, but he did an awesome job on that tour from what I remember seeing live and then on the concert video.
Some people can, but Emerson/Lake aren't two of them.
Posted by: jammindude
« on: March 22, 2013, 10:42:07 PM » Insert Quote
I have not heard much ELP Live. I do have the King Biscuit Flower Hour 2 disc set that was released in the mid-90's...how would you guys rate that against their other live material? Am I missing much? I really like the KBFH set...I just never bothered with anything else because that pretty much seems to cover it. (though I do understand that I *really need* to get WBMF, at least for Tarkus)
Part of that King Biscuit show is actually different mixes of the some of the performances on the Welcome Back My Friends album.
They have official bootleg boxes that they issued way back when, but depending on the show you could probably find bootlegs themselves that sound better than what was released.
For those that like the first album. The Live at The Isle of Wight is a good choice as it was their second performance ever.
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I just first heard of this band an hour ago.. I walked into work this morning and some streaming music service was playing what sounded to me like Dream Theater but it also sounded like something from the 70's, I went to the main computer to check it out and it was a song called Trilogy, man it's pretty great stuff! I love prog that has more music wankery than singing tbh and it's too early to say since I only heard this song but I'm hoping more of their music is like that. Are they consistent in their style through their discography? Which album do you recommend I start with?
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The song you heard is the title track from their fourth album, and that's actually a pretty good starting point for you, since you've already heard the title track and like it. ELP were definitely heavy on the musical wankery. I suggest checking out the album Trilogy, then Tarkus. The title suite from Tarkus is a classic, and four of the seven movements are instrumentals. ELP had more instrumentals than most of their contemporaries. From there, I would say either the debut self-titled, or Brain Salad Surgery, which is regarded by many as their peak. Pictures at an Exhibition is very good, but a bit unbalanced, and it's an adaptation of the famous classical work by Mussorgsky and thus might not be for everyone. If you're fine with classical rock adaptations, go for it.
At some point, you'll want to check out the first live album, Welcome Back, My Friends, to the Show that Never Ends... Ladies and Gentleman -- Emerson Lake & Palmer. Yes, that whole thing is the title, because it's a line from one of their epic songs from Brain Salad Surgery, and the live album is from that tour. That live album is required listening for any 70's prog fan, especially those into musical wankery.
For listening tips, read back through this discography and the discussions of each album. For now (and perhaps forever) avoid anything after the initial run, although Works Volume One has some good stuff.
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Sweet! Thanks Orbert, you rock :metal
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For listening tips, read back through this discography and the discussions of each album. For now (and perhaps forever) avoid anything after the initial run, although Works Volume One has some good stuff.
Personally, I think Pirates and Fanfare for the Common Man are essential, and while "In The Hot Seat" is not for everyone's tastes (and certainly not if you are expecting more of "Tarkus" or "Trilogy") but "Black Moon" is worthy.
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I love Pirates. Fanfare has not aged well with me. Sure, it's cool what they've done with it, but I've never warmed up to the crappy sound of the GX-1 synthesizer. It just sounds so thin and weak compared to the Moog, any Moog.
I figured five albums plus a triple live were more than enough to get started, and if he wants to explore more, it's all here.
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I love Pirates. Fanfare has not aged well with me. Sure, it's cool what they've done with it, but I've never warmed up to the crappy sound of the GX-1 synthesizer. It just sounds so thin and weak compared to the Moog, any Moog.
Won't argue that at all. I saw them in '93 from the third row in New Haven, and they played Pirates and it just SLAYED. So, so good. Plus Carl Palmer either gave me or the woman next to me a point and a nod with his stick during the song, so it's extra special. ;)
I figured five albums plus a triple live were more than enough to get started, and if he wants to explore more, it's all here.
No argument there; that live album is really strong, if you're into the band. Quintessential 70's, with the songs split across records, and song order shuffled to accommodate vinyl...
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Sweet! Thanks Orbert, you rock :metal
And if you want modern day live arrangements of much of this stuff check out the Carl Palmer Band.
That is if you can handle guitar interpretations of the keyboard work because that's how it's re-imagined these days. Some people don't think it works very well, but I'm not one of those people.
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Slightly off topic, but I've been wanting to hear DT play their version of Tarkus since 2005 or so...
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Slightly off topic, but I've been wanting to hear DT play their version of Tarkus since 2005 or so...
I think the closest we'll get to that is Jordan's cover of it in his album The Road Home.
-Marc.
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Wow!
https://www.facebook.com/progworldmusic/videos/652910041529011/
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Yeah, one of their videos has been postet in the Crimso thread also! They're pretty awesome, I wound up watching all their videos :D
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ELP is one of those bands that I won't listen to in a while, then I'll hear something and go "Holy shit I forgot how much I love this!". For a band that was as kitchy and cheesy at times (they are the quintessential 70's dinosaur rock band in many ways) they really have stood the test of time for the most part.
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Has anyone ever worried why the albums up to (and including) Trilogy had a way better drum sound (and I think also a better production in general) than the albums that came after that (starting with BSS)?
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Has anyone ever worried why the albums up to (and including) Trilogy had a way better drum sound (and I think also a better production in general) than the albums that came after that (starting with BSS)?
A quick at wikipedia shows that the first three albums (ELP, Tarkus, and Trilogy) were engineered by Eddy Offord (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_Offord), and that with BSS and later, he was not present in the production of their albums, so I'd say that answers your question.
Eddy also worked a lot with Yes, having worked on seven of their first ten albums - the three he didn't work on were the debut, Going For The One, and Tormato.
-Marc.
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ELP is one of those bands that I won't listen to in a while, then I'll hear something and go "Holy shit I forgot how much I love this!". For a band that was as kitchy and cheesy at times (they are the quintessential 70's dinosaur rock band in many ways) they really have stood the test of time for the most part.
I think the music has, but the sound of it is of a time and a place.
Emerson Lake And Palmer/Powell ( The Nice and 3) is essential binge material for me. At least once a year I find myself going on a bender for a weekend marathon. I'm probably due for another one when the Emerson Tribute concert DVD comes out.
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ELP is one of those bands that I won't listen to in a while, then I'll hear something and go "Holy shit I forgot how much I love this!". For a band that was as kitchy and cheesy at times (they are the quintessential 70's dinosaur rock band in many ways) they really have stood the test of time for the most part.
I think the music has, but the sound of it is of a time and a place.
Emerson Lake And Palmer/Powell ( The Nice and 3) is essential binge material for me. At least once a year I find myself going on a bender for a weekend marathon. I'm probably due for another one when the Emerson Tribute concert DVD comes out.
What's The Nice like? Worth getting into? What about the material with Cozy that didn't make it onto the main album (I think there are demos and whatnot out there)? I like the ELPowell record a lot (I actually prefer that version of "Touch and Go" to any of the re-recordings or live versions done with Palmer).
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ELP is one of those bands that I won't listen to in a while, then I'll hear something and go "Holy shit I forgot how much I love this!". For a band that was as kitchy and cheesy at times (they are the quintessential 70's dinosaur rock band in many ways) they really have stood the test of time for the most part.
I think the music has, but the sound of it is of a time and a place.
i see what you did there. ;)
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ELP is one of those bands that I won't listen to in a while, then I'll hear something and go "Holy shit I forgot how much I love this!". For a band that was as kitchy and cheesy at times (they are the quintessential 70's dinosaur rock band in many ways) they really have stood the test of time for the most part.
I think the music has, but the sound of it is of a time and a place.
Emerson Lake And Palmer/Powell ( The Nice and 3) is essential binge material for me. At least once a year I find myself going on a bender for a weekend marathon. I'm probably due for another one when the Emerson Tribute concert DVD comes out.
What's The Nice like? Worth getting into? What about the material with Cozy that didn't make it onto the main album (I think there are demos and whatnot out there)? I like the ELPowell record a lot (I actually prefer that version of "Touch and Go" to any of the re-recordings or live versions done with Palmer).
I've been curious about The Nice, as well. If anyone here has any suggestions on where to start with them, please let us know!
Also, this thread has reinvigorated my interest in ELP, so much so that I delete a bunch of stuff on my iPod to make room for ELP (again, as I took them off years ago after not having listened to them in awhile). I had almost forgotten how zany and fun their music was, and how impressive their chops were, especially Palmer on drums! What a beast!
-Marc.
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Regarding The Nice, I would start with the debut album, The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack. The title of course comes from mashing up the names of the four band members, Keith Emerson, David O'List, Brian Davison, and Lee Jackson. Then just go through them chronologically. But then, that's my default recommendation for checking out any band. Just go through the catalog. It's the only way to get a proper grasp of what they did and how things evolved.
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Double post because this is a completely different subject.
I found a "rare" track by 3 (Emerson, Berry, and Palmer) which was apparently recorded for what was to be the second album by 3, which never happened. It showed up on a Berry solo album, Pilgrimage to a Point.
It's a 10 1/2 minute tune, and far proggier than anything from 3 to the Power of 3. Okay, that's not saying much because the first album wasn't very proggy anyway, but here we get a pretty crazy extended break with Emerson going a bit nuts on the Hammond, Palmer right there with him, and Berry holding is own. Some nice synth work as well, and overall not a bad song. I added it to the 3 album on my iPod.
Last Ride Into the Sun (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xFrAtOwsY8)
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Regarding The Nice, I would start with the debut album, The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack. The title of course comes from mashing up the names of the four band members, Keith Emerson, David O'List, Brian Davison, and Lee Jackson. Then just go through them chronologically. But then, that's my default recommendation for checking out any band. Just go through the catalog. It's the only way to get a proper grasp of what they did and how things evolved.
I figured that would be the best way to go about it. I just haven't had a chance to listen to them yet as I've been going through the ELP catalog, but I may break from that a bit to hear how The Nice sounds.
Double post because this is a completely different subject.
I found a "rare" track by 3 (Emerson, Berry, and Palmer) which was apparently recorded for what was to be the second album by 3, which never happened. It showed up on a Berry solo album, Pilgrimage to a Point.
It's a 10 1/2 minute tune, and far proggier than anything from 3 to the Power of 3. Okay, that's not saying much because the first album wasn't very proggy anyway, but here we get a pretty crazy extended break with Emerson going a bit nuts on the Hammond, Palmer right there with him, and Berry holding is own. Some nice synth work as well, and overall not a bad song. I added it to the 3 album on my iPod.
Last Ride Into the Sun (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xFrAtOwsY8)
Interesting find! I will definitely have to listen to that later when I get around to spinning To The Power Of Three on my ELP Journey this week!
-Marc.
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Regarding The Nice, I would start with the debut album, The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack. The title of course comes from mashing up the names of the four band members, Keith Emerson, David O'List, Brian Davison, and Lee Jackson. Then just go through them chronologically. But then, that's my default recommendation for checking out any band. Just go through the catalog. It's the only way to get a proper grasp of what they did and how things evolved.
I'd say that a good a place to start as any. Don't expect to hear much in the Emerson Lake and Palmer vein though. It's a different dynamic really. The music is kind of a psychedelic/jazz hybrid. Very unique. Musicianship is still good but it goes in a different improvisation direction, especially live. If you dig early Floyd and pre-Steve Howe Yes, you might really like this band.
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Double post because this is a completely different subject.
I found a "rare" track by 3 (Emerson, Berry, and Palmer) which was apparently recorded for what was to be the second album by 3, which never happened. It showed up on a Berry solo album, Pilgrimage to a Point.
It's a 10 1/2 minute tune, and far proggier than anything from 3 to the Power of 3. Okay, that's not saying much because the first album wasn't very proggy anyway, but here we get a pretty crazy extended break with Emerson going a bit nuts on the Hammond, Palmer right there with him, and Berry holding is own. Some nice synth work as well, and overall not a bad song. I added it to the 3 album on my iPod.
Last Ride Into the Sun (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xFrAtOwsY8)
I keep hoping that "second" album would be released in some form. I like 3 well enough and played the crap out if when it first came out, but I don't reach for it as much as I used to do in the 10 or so years after it came out.
I guess you'd put in in the same box as GTR although I think GTR is more interesting.
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I'm very late to this thread. I just discovered ELP last year through JR's cover of "Tarkus", which I immediately loved. At first I just liked a bunch of songs (Karn Evil 9 1st Impression, Abbadon's Bolero & Tarkus) but since a few months ago their music clicked with me. I started to read this thread and follow it while listening to the album. It's been great, I've absolutely loved everything from the debut until BSS. I know a few songs from there on (Half of Works 1 and about half of Black Moon, I also liked that).
So I'm ready to move to the next album (Works 1), it's been a great reading, thanks for the Summaries Orbert! It's a nice guided journey through their discography.
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You're welcome! I'm glad you're enjoying the writeups, and glad you're digging Emerson Lake & Palmer!
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Tarkus is one of the songs I wished DT would have covered years ago. I can imagine it would have been a much heavier version of the original in a way both ELP and DT fans would enjoy. :tup
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Tarkus is one of the songs I wished DT would have covered years ago. I can imagine it would have been a much heavier version of the original in a way both ELP and DT fans would enjoy. :tup
Carl Palmer's band does an amazing version of this too. No keyboards of course, but I think the arrangement sounds great.
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This is near the bottom of my list of favorite Emerson Lake and Palmer songs, but I'm tearing up right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-u29q2c-pM
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Amazing.
I followed that here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yfkLa8Mx_s
I swear I thought that was the ghost of Chris Squire!!!!
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Amazing.
I followed that here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yfkLa8Mx_s
I swear I thought that was the ghost of Chris Squire!!!!
Watched that too. I'm really happy for Tony Kaye, but I can't even watch Yes from the last 10 years on You Tube anymore.
Have to say the Steve Howe seems like he's the happiest he's ever been in Yes in years (likely because Anderson is no longer there.) At least he's still bringing it.
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https://www.loudersound.com/news/keith-emerson-contributions-to-appear-on-new-robert-berry-album
Keith Emerson Contributions To Appear On New Robert Berry Album
(https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/DYAZoGkKM82Da538NupLFc-650-80.jpg)
One By One
Powerful Man
The Rules Have Changed
Our Bond
What You're Dreaming Now
Somebody's Watching
This Letter
Your Mark On The World
The last musical project that Keith Emerson was involved with prior to his death in 2016 is to see the light of day.
Robert Berry, the US singer/multi-instrumentalist will release a new album, The Rules Have Changed, under the band name 3.2. This is a direct reference to the band 3 that he was in alongside Keith Emerson and Carl Palmer in 1988. Like Emerson, Lake & Powell, 3 was supposed to carry on in the general style of ELP in the absence of one of the original members. The resultant album, 1988's To The Power Of Three, and after some live dates in America, the group disbanded a year later.
It now transpires that Berry and Emerson had been in conversation about working on a new 3 project following interest from Italian label Frontiers.
“Keith and I developed together a vision of what the new album would be like, explains Berry. “There were many times over the past 30 years since 3 had come out that Keith either played on a session for me or we just talked on the phone. The new album consists of some past 3 writing from 1988, some newly written last efforts from Keith, and some songs written exclusively by me after Keith’s death."
3.2's The Rules Have Changed is being touted as a reboot of the original 3 project. You can hear a preview of the album in the track Somebody's Watching below. The album will be released on August 10 on Frontiers.
“Every second I worked on writing, recording, and performing those songs I had one thing on my mind,” says Berry. “The phrase... ‘What would Keith do’... drove me, it guided me, it consumed my creativity. It was so important to me to fulfill our vision for this album. I believe Keith worked through me. I especially felt him with me when I did the solos. The songs we had worked on together but the solos were to be improvised while recording. You will hear his flare coming through on the solos. The solos are played by me, but, at the same time, also by him. I would never say I was even close to being the player Keith was. But I believe you can hear his spirit in the sound and in my playing. I am so proud of this album. I can’t help but think somehow he is proud of the results too.”
https://youtu.be/ESyXLOtWV90
You can preorder it on Amazon - https://youtu.be/ESyXLOtWV90
-Marc.
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Cool... believe it or not, I was just listening to 3 the other day... I have that cd for the longest time, and have always thought some songs have potential, yet they were just so under-developed.
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I saw that earlier today, and listened to the track. It's pretty good. Just as described, keyboards by Berry but definitely evoke Emerson. Same sounds, same style. If someone had told me that it was another lost 3 track, I would've believed it. And I thought of coming here to post about it, but decided against it. I mean, 3 is like first derivative ELP, so something that's not even 3, but meant to evoke it, is like second derivative or something. Good song, though.
This one's better. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xFrAtOwsY8) Emerson, Berry, and Palmer (3) track intended for the second 3 album which never happened. Berry ended up releasing it on his solo album Pilgrimage to a Point but I added it to 3 on my iPod.
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https://www.loudersound.com/news/keith-emerson-contributions-to-appear-on-new-robert-berry-album
Keith Emerson Contributions To Appear On New Robert Berry Album
(https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/DYAZoGkKM82Da538NupLFc-650-80.jpg)
One By One
Powerful Man
The Rules Have Changed
Our Bond
What You're Dreaming Now
Somebody's Watching
This Letter
Your Mark On The World
The last musical project that Keith Emerson was involved with prior to his death in 2016 is to see the light of day.
Robert Berry, the US singer/multi-instrumentalist will release a new album, The Rules Have Changed, under the band name 3.2. This is a direct reference to the band 3 that he was in alongside Keith Emerson and Carl Palmer in 1988. Like Emerson, Lake & Powell, 3 was supposed to carry on in the general style of ELP in the absence of one of the original members. The resultant album, 1988's To The Power Of Three, and after some live dates in America, the group disbanded a year later.
It now transpires that Berry and Emerson had been in conversation about working on a new 3 project following interest from Italian label Frontiers.
“Keith and I developed together a vision of what the new album would be like, explains Berry. “There were many times over the past 30 years since 3 had come out that Keith either played on a session for me or we just talked on the phone. The new album consists of some past 3 writing from 1988, some newly written last efforts from Keith, and some songs written exclusively by me after Keith’s death."
3.2's The Rules Have Changed is being touted as a reboot of the original 3 project. You can hear a preview of the album in the track Somebody's Watching below. The album will be released on August 10 on Frontiers.
“Every second I worked on writing, recording, and performing those songs I had one thing on my mind,” says Berry. “The phrase... ‘What would Keith do’... drove me, it guided me, it consumed my creativity. It was so important to me to fulfill our vision for this album. I believe Keith worked through me. I especially felt him with me when I did the solos. The songs we had worked on together but the solos were to be improvised while recording. You will hear his flare coming through on the solos. The solos are played by me, but, at the same time, also by him. I would never say I was even close to being the player Keith was. But I believe you can hear his spirit in the sound and in my playing. I am so proud of this album. I can’t help but think somehow he is proud of the results too.”
https://youtu.be/ESyXLOtWV90
You can preorder it on Amazon - https://youtu.be/ESyXLOtWV90
-Marc.
Didn't know about this album.
Not sure where this would fall on my priority list because Emerson (and I would guess Palmer) doesn't (don't) play on it and it's more of a tribute album. But I do like the first album and would like to track down the demos for the second one.
I'll probably pick it up eventually at some point in the future.
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Blind-bought their first album and Brain Salad Surgery 2 days ago. I’m not a big fan of their first album so far. The best songs are basically covers and I can’t truly enjoy songs that a band/artist didn’t compose. But I really like Brain Salad Surgery. Don’t really give a fuck about the first 4 songs (especially the 2 “covers”), but the Karn Evil songs are really great. Those 4 songs as a whole are pretty much just as good as Tarkus.
Anyway, definitely gonna read this thread.
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To each their own, I suppose. Even though they are technically covers, I think ELP's psychotic adapations of classical works are one of their main selling points, and it was a very important part of the band.
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Eh, Take a Pebble and Lucky Man, to me, are the best songs from the first album, and both are originals.
NoseofNicko, I take it you don't like Led Zeppelin, considering a shit ton of their songs are basically (uncredited) covers, right?
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Yeah, I don't understand that take. One of my favorite ELP songs by far (along with Pirates) is Fanfare For A Common Man, and obviously the latter is a cover.
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I think their covers and their "heavily inspired" stuff is the best. The Greg Lake acoustic ballads have never really done it for me, and kinda cause to do one of these ::)
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I've been meaning to jump into this group for a while now, since Stadler blew me away by sending me the self-titled in my roulette. Are the rest of their albums similar to that? By similar, I mean a boatload of killer piano and great prog.
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I've been meaning to jump into this group for a while now, since Stadler blew me away by sending me the self-titled in my roulette. Are the rest of their albums similar to that? By similar, I mean a boatload of killer piano and great prog.
It's only up from there IMO. Also don't overlook Pictures from an Exhibition.
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I've been meaning to jump into this group for a while now, since Stadler blew me away by sending me the self-titled in my roulette. Are the rest of their albums similar to that? By similar, I mean a boatload of killer piano and great prog.
It's only up from there IMO. Also don't overlook Pictures from an Exhibition.
Skeever is right; if you're really into it, start chronologically, and remember that while Tarkus came out first, "Pictures..." was performed before and was shelved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictures_at_an_Exhibition_(Emerson,_Lake_%26_Palmer_album)
It's one of my favorite pieces by ELP. If you like "boatloads of piano" and "great prog", you're good with ELP up through Works I.
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Killer. Thanks dudes :)
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To each their own, I suppose. Even though they are technically covers, I think ELP's psychotic adapations of classical works are one of their main selling points, and it was a very important part of the band.
I'd agree with this assessment. I love pretty much everything this band has ever done expect for their final album In The Hot Seat -- especially the live albums.
Just cracked open Carl Palmer's most recent live album last weekend. Haven't gotten the change to watch the DVD yet, but the CD is awesome. Sounds better and more polished than his other "Working Live" releases and the track listing is mostly different since it's a tribute to his fallen bandmates. My only complaint is the CD only 47 minutes long and very abridged from a 2014 concert. The DVD is the 2016 tribute concert and is full length.
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bump.
Karn Evil 9 being adapted into a Scifi Movie by the producer of Jumanji
:o
https://deadline.com/2020/02/radar-pictures-develop-emerson-lake-palmer-song-karn-evil-9-film-1202859799/#comments
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bump.
Karn Evil 9 being adapted into a Scifi Movie by the producer of Jumanji
:o
https://deadline.com/2020/02/radar-pictures-develop-emerson-lake-palmer-song-karn-evil-9-film-1202859799/#comments
The description makes it sound like pretty generic YA fiction (a la the Divergent series). We'll see.
I've been meaning to jump into this group for a while now, since Stadler blew me away by sending me the self-titled in my roulette. Are the rest of their albums similar to that? By similar, I mean a boatload of killer piano and great prog.
It's only up from there IMO. Also don't overlook Pictures from an Exhibition.
Skeever is right; if you're really into it, start chronologically, and remember that while Tarkus came out first, "Pictures..." was performed before and was shelved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictures_at_an_Exhibition_(Emerson,_Lake_%26_Palmer_album)
It's one of my favorite pieces by ELP. If you like "boatloads of piano" and "great prog", you're good with ELP up through Works I.
I realize this post is a year and a half old, but since someone bumped the thread....
I completely agree about not overlooking Pictures. It's freakin' amazing (although I could do without Nut Rocker). Check out a proper orchestra performance of the piece also.
As for the timeline, Tarkus was recorded and released first. However, Pictures was recorded between the time that Tarkus was recorded and released. More specifically:
Tarkus recorded: January 1971
Pictures recorded: March 1971
Tarkus released: June 1971
Pictures released: November 1971
EDIT: Reading to confirm some of these dates indirectly reminded me how much I despise Robert Christgau. What a fucking pompous ass.
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bump.
Karn Evil 9 being adapted into a Scifi Movie by the producer of Jumanji
:o
https://deadline.com/2020/02/radar-pictures-develop-emerson-lake-palmer-song-karn-evil-9-film-1202859799/#comments
And not one mention of Peter Sinfield, who actually wrote the lyrics with Greg Lake, instead of Keith Emerson and Carl Palmer :lol
Anyway, I will be checking this out. I just hope they put a little budget in there. Low-budget sci-fi movies can be terrible.
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Regarding The Nice:
They were awesome at their time. As a young man, I joined two of their concerts in Denmark, must be 50 years ago now. At their first concert, I stood about 2 meters away from bassist Lee Jackson, playing on a teardrop Vox bass I think, and I thought it was mindblowing. And I could still see Emerson throwing knives into the Hammond. At their second concert, they opened up with 'Karelia Suite', including a long intro that slowly built up to the main theme. It was majestic and unforgettable.
Their catalogue is not that big, just 3-4 studio albums I think. I was able to buy a 3CD collection for a fair price, remastered and all. It contained their first 2 albums plus a bunch of live recordings. Then I bought Five Bridges also, so at that time I think I had the complete collection. Some more might have come up later, I don't know.
Ars Longa Vita Brevis was the album I played the most.
Hammond-based bands was not uncommon at that time. I guess they wouldn't stand a chance nowadays. 'The Crazy World of Arthur Brown' was another one. They did a studio live recording on danish TV and I was glued to TV set. Again, it was fantastic. And the drummer was - Carl Palmer. So later on when ELP was formed, I was all set.
And BTW, I really loved their first album. It's like they just found their momentum and the music really kicks ass on this one. Just IMO of course.
Edit: the 3CD collection was named 'Here Come The Nice'.
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That must have been amazing, seeing The Nice!
Re-reading what I wrote at the beginning there, I may have come across as a bit dismissive of The Nice, and I definitely did not mean to be. They were an important band in early Art Rock. Even if their music didn't directly have a huge impact on people (not outside their circle at the time anyway), Keith cut his chops with them and thus through ELP impacted every keyboard player alive at the time. Their Classical-Rock stuff is fun. Jackson and Davidson weren't slouches, either. I like the Refugee album they did with Patrick Moraz.
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That must have been amazing, seeing The Nice!
Re-reading what I wrote at the beginning there, I may have come across as a bit dismissive of The Nice, and I definitely did not mean to be. They were an important band in early Art Rock. Even if their music didn't directly have a huge impact on people (not outside their circle at the time anyway), Keith cut his chops with them and thus through ELP impacted every keyboard player alive at the time. Their Classical-Rock stuff is fun. Jackson and Davidson weren't slouches, either. I like the Refugee album they did with Patrick Moraz.
Yeah, I own that Refugee album too, on vinyl. And probably everything else related to these bands. I did a read-up regarding the ‘Here Come The Nice’ collection, and it appears that it contains 3 studio albums, plus live stuff. The third album was called ‘Nice’. I’m not exactly sure about the ‘Five Bridges’ album, but I think it was a studio album as well, and not included in the 3CD box set. Must play it again! The fun about having a huge collection like mine is that you forget about what is in there and sometimes find treasures!
As far as I remember, Emerson kept his style somewhat on the first ELP album - not much synth, if any - but his Hammond smokes. On their next album he established their synth sound (mostly Moog), which lasted on all their later albums.
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Emerson got one of the first Modular Moog synthesizers, if not the first, and that's when things really started to take off for both of them. Moog had been making synths since 1964, but they were mostly seen as "experimental" instruments. Moog gave that Modular to Keith around the same time as the first ELP album, and Keith figured out how to do things with it that Moog hadn't even imagined. ELP helped put the Moog, and synthesizers in general, out there in the public ear.
Keith stuck with primarily Moogs for years, only switching to the Yamaha GX-1 around the Works sessions. It was very different, and I think just doing something different and creating sounds in a different way was attractive to Keith at the time.
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Emerson got one of the first Modular Moog synthesizers, if not the first, and that's when things really started to take off for both of them. Moog had been making synths since 1964, but they were mostly seen as "experimental" instruments. Moog gave that Modular to Keith around the same time as the first ELP album, and Keith figured out how to do things with it that Moog hadn't even imagined. ELP helped put the Moog, and synthesizers in general, out there in the public ear.
Keith stuck with primarily Moogs for years, only switching to the Yamaha GX-1 around the Works sessions. It was very different, and I think just doing something different and creating sounds in a different way was attractive to Keith at the time.
You are right, I remember photos showing him with someting looking like an old telephone switch board, plugging cables in and out. It was really fantastic what he got out of it, I guess he spent 100s of hours learning how to operate it.
More on The Nice:
Although Emerson used most of the time on the Hammond, he used to switch to an upright piano and perform endless traditional jazz improvisations with Davidson. I didn't fancy it too much, neither did the audience I think. It was still a rock /pop audience and traditional jazz was close to a no-go at these concerts at the time. I think he left it, when ELP was formed, even though they had a few songs of this piano-jazz style on their repertoire.
It was sad news for me, when he decided to leave The Nice. I think he had two reasons to do so:
Jackson couldn't sing. He sounded like a frog.
Neither Jackson or Davidson had the confidence /charisma to fill up huge stadions - but Emerson had, and he wanted it.
So he got Lake and Palmer, and by this hit the right spot. As seen with famous bands, the right combinations suddenly clicks and they create unforgettable music.
In 1970, I was at the Fehmarn festival in Germany and heard ELP for the first time. I think it was 3am at night and I barely remember what they played. To be honest, we smoked a lot of weed and drank many beers, for three days, in a terrible weather. I don't know how I survived this. At the same event, I also witnessed the last performance Hendrix did, before he died shortly afterwards.
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I couldn't find a generic Emerson Lake & Palmer thread so I'll put this here. I found it while digging some Rachel Flowers videos.
Pictures at an Exhibition - Rachel Flowers at Prog on the Ranch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA2Yk_L7K6E&feature=youtu.be)
No rehearsal. "We just discussed some cues and transitions." Incredible. I'm mesmerized watching her mess with the Nords' settings better than I could ever do and I can see!
Also during Prog on the Ranch, she played flute on some Jethro Tull covers, and guitar on some King Crimson. I recently posted her video for "Montana" with Zappa Plays Zappa in the Zappa thread.
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I couldn't find a generic Emerson Lake & Palmer thread so I'll put this here. I found it while digging some Rachel Flowers videos.
Pictures at an Exhibition - Rachel Flowers at Prog on the Ranch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA2Yk_L7K6E&feature=youtu.be)
No rehearsal. "We just discussed some cues and transitions." Incredible. I'm mesmerized watching her mess with the Nords' settings better than I could ever do and I can see!
Also during Prog on the Ranch, she played flute on some Jethro Tull covers, and guitar on some King Crimson. I recently posted her video for "Montana" with Zappa Plays Zappa in the Zappa thread.
That was impressive, I haven't heard of her. She is awesome!
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She is indeed. I first heard of her a few years ago when someone posted some vids of her doing ELP stuff.
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I couldn't find a generic Emerson Lake & Palmer thread so I'll put this here. I found it while digging some Rachel Flowers videos.
Pictures at an Exhibition - Rachel Flowers at Prog on the Ranch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA2Yk_L7K6E&feature=youtu.be)
No rehearsal. "We just discussed some cues and transitions." Incredible. I'm mesmerized watching her mess with the Nords' settings better than I could ever do and I can see!
Also during Prog on the Ranch, she played flute on some Jethro Tull covers, and guitar on some King Crimson. I recently posted her video for "Montana" with Zappa Plays Zappa in the Zappa thread.
What a performance! I understand it was a quick setup, not planned, and the singer shouldn't have been there - but that woman. If it was a blindtest, I wouldn't dare to say who was Emerson or her (aside from her different synth sounds). She just knows all the Emerson chops! And plays with ease!
I'm not a keyboard expert (my primary instrument is guitar), but I love the Hammond sound so much that I bought a 2ndhand Roland RD-700, which has (IMO) a decent Hammond sound with leslie effect.
Now when I hear that Nord C2D, it's like another world. It's so close to a B3 that I wouldn't dare to tell the difference. Yes, the roadies know the difference between ~20kgs. and ~300kgs.!
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Emerson got one of the first Modular Moog synthesizers, if not the first, and that's when things really started to take off for both of them. Moog had been making synths since 1964, but they were mostly seen as "experimental" instruments. Moog gave that Modular to Keith around the same time as the first ELP album, and Keith figured out how to do things with it that Moog hadn't even imagined. ELP helped put the Moog, and synthesizers in general, out there in the public ear.
Keith stuck with primarily Moogs for years, only switching to the Yamaha GX-1 around the Works sessions. It was very different, and I think just doing something different and creating sounds in a different way was attractive to Keith at the time.
You are right, I remember photos showing him with someting looking like an old telephone switch board, plugging cables in and out. It was really fantastic what he got out of it, I guess he spent 100s of hours learning how to operate it.
More on The Nice:
Although Emerson used most of the time on the Hammond, he used to switch to an upright piano and perform endless traditional jazz improvisations with Davidson. I didn't fancy it too much, neither did the audience I think. It was still a rock /pop audience and traditional jazz was close to a no-go at these concerts at the time. I think he left it, when ELP was formed, even though they had a few songs of this piano-jazz style on their repertoire.
It was sad news for me, when he decided to leave The Nice. I think he had two reasons to do so:
Jackson couldn't sing. He sounded like a frog.
Neither Jackson or Davidson had the confidence /charisma to fill up huge stadions - but Emerson had, and he wanted it.
So he got Lake and Palmer, and by this hit the right spot. As seen with famous bands, the right combinations suddenly clicks and they create unforgettable music.
In 1970, I was at the Fehmarn festival in Germany and heard ELP for the first time. I think it was 3am at night and I barely remember what they played. To be honest, we smoked a lot of weed and drank many beers, for three days, in a terrible weather. I don't know how I survived this. At the same event, I also witnessed the last performance Hendrix did, before he died shortly afterwards.
Wow. Some great memories you have there.
I love The Nice. I wish they'd done more together but then we' wouldn't have had Emerson Lake and Palmer.
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She is indeed. I first heard of her a few years ago when someone posted some vids of her doing ELP stuff.
She's been doing that for most of her life. Very talented.
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Emerson got one of the first Modular Moog synthesizers, if not the first, and that's when things really started to take off for both of them. Moog had been making synths since 1964, but they were mostly seen as "experimental" instruments. Moog gave that Modular to Keith around the same time as the first ELP album, and Keith figured out how to do things with it that Moog hadn't even imagined. ELP helped put the Moog, and synthesizers in general, out there in the public ear.
Keith stuck with primarily Moogs for years, only switching to the Yamaha GX-1 around the Works sessions. It was very different, and I think just doing something different and creating sounds in a different way was attractive to Keith at the time.
You are right, I remember photos showing him with someting looking like an old telephone switch board, plugging cables in and out. It was really fantastic what he got out of it, I guess he spent 100s of hours learning how to operate it.
More on The Nice:
Although Emerson used most of the time on the Hammond, he used to switch to an upright piano and perform endless traditional jazz improvisations with Davidson. I didn't fancy it too much, neither did the audience I think. It was still a rock /pop audience and traditional jazz was close to a no-go at these concerts at the time. I think he left it, when ELP was formed, even though they had a few songs of this piano-jazz style on their repertoire.
It was sad news for me, when he decided to leave The Nice. I think he had two reasons to do so:
Jackson couldn't sing. He sounded like a frog.
Neither Jackson or Davidson had the confidence /charisma to fill up huge stadions - but Emerson had, and he wanted it.
So he got Lake and Palmer, and by this hit the right spot. As seen with famous bands, the right combinations suddenly clicks and they create unforgettable music.
In 1970, I was at the Fehmarn festival in Germany and heard ELP for the first time. I think it was 3am at night and I barely remember what they played. To be honest, we smoked a lot of weed and drank many beers, for three days, in a terrible weather. I don't know how I survived this. At the same event, I also witnessed the last performance Hendrix did, before he died shortly afterwards.
Wow. Some great memories you have there.
I love The Nice. I wish they'd done more together but then we' wouldn't have had Emerson Lake and Palmer.
Yeah, as said I was disappointed when they split. But that was also because I was unaware about what was to come. I loved The Nice, but I’d say I loved ELP more!
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Emerson got one of the first Modular Moog synthesizers, if not the first, and that's when things really started to take off for both of them. Moog had been making synths since 1964, but they were mostly seen as "experimental" instruments. Moog gave that Modular to Keith around the same time as the first ELP album, and Keith figured out how to do things with it that Moog hadn't even imagined. ELP helped put the Moog, and synthesizers in general, out there in the public ear.
Keith stuck with primarily Moogs for years, only switching to the Yamaha GX-1 around the Works sessions. It was very different, and I think just doing something different and creating sounds in a different way was attractive to Keith at the time.
You are right, I remember photos showing him with someting looking like an old telephone switch board, plugging cables in and out. It was really fantastic what he got out of it, I guess he spent 100s of hours learning how to operate it.
More on The Nice:
Although Emerson used most of the time on the Hammond, he used to switch to an upright piano and perform endless traditional jazz improvisations with Davidson. I didn't fancy it too much, neither did the audience I think. It was still a rock /pop audience and traditional jazz was close to a no-go at these concerts at the time. I think he left it, when ELP was formed, even though they had a few songs of this piano-jazz style on their repertoire.
It was sad news for me, when he decided to leave The Nice. I think he had two reasons to do so:
Jackson couldn't sing. He sounded like a frog.
Neither Jackson or Davidson had the confidence /charisma to fill up huge stadions - but Emerson had, and he wanted it.
So he got Lake and Palmer, and by this hit the right spot. As seen with famous bands, the right combinations suddenly clicks and they create unforgettable music.
In 1970, I was at the Fehmarn festival in Germany and heard ELP for the first time. I think it was 3am at night and I barely remember what they played. To be honest, we smoked a lot of weed and drank many beers, for three days, in a terrible weather. I don't know how I survived this. At the same event, I also witnessed the last performance Hendrix did, before he died shortly afterwards.
Wow. Some great memories you have there.
I love The Nice. I wish they'd done more together but then we' wouldn't have had Emerson Lake and Palmer.
Yeah, as said I was disappointed when they split. But that was also because I was unaware about what was to come. I loved The Nice, but I’d say I loved ELP more!
I suppose you could argue that they are fairly similar to each other but I think the bands always thought each had different goals. Though you could sat the musical landscape was changing very quickly at that point.
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https://youtu.be/_FMjCN6jEyY
Doug Helvering reacts/analyzes "Tarkus". If you haven't heard of Doug, he's a composer/professor/conductor of music, and his reaction videos have a lot of on-the-fly analysis of the music he listens to. This one on "Tarkus" is a bit different though, in that he's watching a video with transcriptions of the song, which helps him make his analysis easier!
-Marc.
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Hey, anyone have or have heard any of the shows from the "Official Bootleg Series", the four box sets they released of live material? Is the sound any good? Is it at least better than that Asia box that's out there (Quadra, not the new one with some of the same shows).
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Would LOVE to do a "top whatever" list for ELP!
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I don't know enough about their music, but I have always wanted DT to do a cover of Tarkus... I guess with MP gone it is unlikely to happen at this stage of their career, I guess?
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I don't know enough about their music, but I have always wanted DT to do a cover of Tarkus... I guess with MP gone it is unlikely to happen at this stage of their career, I guess?
Closest you'll get is Jordan Rudess' cover of "Tarkus" from his album The Road Home. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Home_(Jordan_Rudess_album))
-Marc.
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I don't know enough about their music, but I have always wanted DT to do a cover of Tarkus... I guess with MP gone it is unlikely to happen at this stage of their career, I guess?
Closest you'll get is Jordan Rudess' cover of "Tarkus" from his album The Road Home. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Home_(Jordan_Rudess_album))
-Marc.
There is also a cover of Tarkus featuring JLB and Derek Sherinian on Magna Carta’s Encores, Legends & Paradox tribute album. MP and Rudess each played on other tracks on that release, but it was Simon Phillips on drums for Tarkus.
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Hey, anyone have or have heard any of the shows from the "Official Bootleg Series", the four box sets they released of live material? Is the sound any good? Is it at least better than that Asia box that's out there (Quadra, not the new one with some of the same shows).
Have the first three boxes and the performances are what you would expect, but I highly doubt you'll sit through the sound quality. The reformation shows in the '90s sound pretty good but that's not an era I really visit much live as I really don't like many of those performances.
In short I'd put them in the same class as Quadra. Could never fathom who may have thought selling shows that sound this way "officially" was good idea. Most sound like they are essentially audience recordings.
Not sure I would have bought them if I knew about this beforehand when they were released but I love ELP so they are still here if I ever get the urge.
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I don't know enough about their music, but I have always wanted DT to do a cover of Tarkus... I guess with MP gone it is unlikely to happen at this stage of their career, I guess?
Closest you'll get is Jordan Rudess' cover of "Tarkus" from his album The Road Home. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Home_(Jordan_Rudess_album))
-Marc.
He's also on a few tribute albums and has played a few tribute shows live.
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Hey, anyone have or have heard any of the shows from the "Official Bootleg Series", the four box sets they released of live material? Is the sound any good? Is it at least better than that Asia box that's out there (Quadra, not the new one with some of the same shows).
Have the first three boxes and the performances are what you would expect, but I highly doubt you'll sit through the sound quality. The reformation shows in the '90s sound pretty good but that's not an era I really visit much live as I really don't like many of those performances.
In short I'd put them in the same class as Quadra. Could never fathom who may have thought selling shows that sound this way "officially" was good idea. Most sound like they are essentially audience recordings.
Not sure I would have bought them if I knew about this beforehand when they were released but I love ELP so they are still here if I ever get the urge.
Thank you for this. I appreciate you taking the time to let me know. You're right, of course. I got Quadra for like four bucks or something, so it wasn't too big a bummer (and I NEVER listen to it now). The ELP boxes are not cheap, though and I can't see me paying the $60 or $70 they regularly command on Discogs for something I won't listen to. There's enough official stuff that sounds good.
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Hey, anyone have or have heard any of the shows from the "Official Bootleg Series", the four box sets they released of live material? Is the sound any good? Is it at least better than that Asia box that's out there (Quadra, not the new one with some of the same shows).
Have the first three boxes and the performances are what you would expect, but I highly doubt you'll sit through the sound quality. The reformation shows in the '90s sound pretty good but that's not an era I really visit much live as I really don't like many of those performances.
In short I'd put them in the same class as Quadra. Could never fathom who may have thought selling shows that sound this way "officially" was good idea. Most sound like they are essentially audience recordings.
Not sure I would have bought them if I knew about this beforehand when they were released but I love ELP so they are still here if I ever get the urge.
Thank you for this. I appreciate you taking the time to let me know. You're right, of course. I got Quadra for like four bucks or something, so it wasn't too big a bummer (and I NEVER listen to it now). The ELP boxes are not cheap, though and I can't see me paying the $60 or $70 they regularly command on Discogs for something I won't listen to. There's enough official stuff that sounds good.
No problem! I didn't pay much for Quadra either but it was more than $4. I think it was in the $10 to $12 range shortly after it was released.
A lot of the performances on those ELP boots are top notch but most are average to below average audience recordings. Most of the official stuff isn't that much worse and in some cases just as good.
Don't know how you feel about Emerson Lake and Powell, but their official bootleg is really good and sounds great.
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Figured this would land best here:
https://bravewords.com/news/emerson-lake-powell-the-complete-collection-3cd-box-set-available-in-april
https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/emerson-lake-and-powell-the-complete-collection-3cd-box/
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I saw that earlier today as well. Could be interesting. I liked the ELPowell album.
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I'm all over this. I really like the album ("Touch and Go" is one of my favorite ELP songs) and I've been sort of keeping an eye out for the rehearsals and live album but haven't found one at a price I could swallow. This is the perfect answer.
I've also been in a big "Greg Lake" mode lately, from hearing the Asia In Asia set; if you are even remotely a fan of Lake, you should check it out; the CD version has the full set (including encores, though out of order) and the band stretched out a bit live; several of the songs have extended outros and what not, and it's a really, really well done set. Plus, Greg's voice is like sweet nectar, smooth as silk. Haha.
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Figured this would land best here:
https://bravewords.com/news/emerson-lake-powell-the-complete-collection-3cd-box-set-available-in-april
https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/emerson-lake-and-powell-the-complete-collection-3cd-box/
Except for the enhanced booklet there is nothing here I don't already have. Pretty cool to have everything in one place though and great for someone just getting into them.
RE Greg Lake, I'm (finally) reading his autobiography (Still reading Geddy's too but I've been slow walking that.) On the second page he claims Madison Square Garden has 22,000 seats. I don't know why that bothers me, but it does. Is it an honest error not caught by the fact checker or editor? I've always found him to be somewhat loose with facts so I don't know how much of his story I should believe but so far it's been a pretty easy read. He's my least favorite member of ELP so I really don't know too much about his life.
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Figured this would land best here:
https://bravewords.com/news/emerson-lake-powell-the-complete-collection-3cd-box-set-available-in-april
https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/emerson-lake-and-powell-the-complete-collection-3cd-box/
Except for the enhanced booklet there is nothing here I don't already have. Pretty cool to have everything in one place though and great for someone just getting into them.
RE Greg Lake, I'm (finally) reading his autobiography (Still reading Geddy's too but I've been slow walking that.) On the second page he claims Madison Square Garden has 22,000 seats. I don't know why that bothers me, but it does. Is it an honest error not caught by the fact checker or editor? I've always found him to be somewhat loose with facts so I don't know how much of his story I should believe but so far it's been a pretty easy read. He's my least favorite member of ELP so I really don't know too much about his life.
Its still 20,000 for concerts, though. I mean, it's wrong, but not egregiously so. But I get it.
Tangentially related, what bugs me is when artists say they "played the Garden" but meant the THEATER AT Madison Square Garden, which is a smaller, less than 5,000 seat theater underneath the Garden itself. THAT'S disingenuous.
By the way, Yes is one of a handful of acts to have a "platinum ticket", meaning they sold more than 250,000 tickets at MSG. Led Zeppelin played more shows there than at any other arena in the States.
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Figured this would land best here:
https://bravewords.com/news/emerson-lake-powell-the-complete-collection-3cd-box-set-available-in-april
https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/emerson-lake-and-powell-the-complete-collection-3cd-box/
Except for the enhanced booklet there is nothing here I don't already have. Pretty cool to have everything in one place though and great for someone just getting into them.
RE Greg Lake, I'm (finally) reading his autobiography (Still reading Geddy's too but I've been slow walking that.) On the second page he claims Madison Square Garden has 22,000 seats. I don't know why that bothers me, but it does. Is it an honest error not caught by the fact checker or editor? I've always found him to be somewhat loose with facts so I don't know how much of his story I should believe but so far it's been a pretty easy read. He's my least favorite member of ELP so I really don't know too much about his life.
Its still 20,000 for concerts, though. I mean, it's wrong, but not egregiously so. But I get it.
Tangentially related, what bugs me is when artists say they "played the Garden" but meant the THEATER AT Madison Square Garden, which is a smaller, less than 5,000 seat theater underneath the Garden itself. THAT'S disingenuous.
By the way, Yes is one of a handful of acts to have a "platinum ticket", meaning they sold more than 250,000 tickets at MSG. Led Zeppelin played more shows there than at any other arena in the States.
You're absolutely right about the attendance. The hockey numbers were seared in my brain. Didn't make the obvious adjustment for concerts. More than half way though Greg's book. Mildly entertaining and easy to get through. He's mellowed a bit too. He's acknowledged some events where there was some disagreement with Keith but he also tells Keith's recollections. I was also hoping to learn a lot more than I have so far.
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Finally finished Greg Lake's book. Quick read. Didn't learn as much as I hoped. Thought it might be a bit more revealing but it had it's moments. Reading about Keith' death hit me hard again.
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did anyone catch the Emerson/Lake tour in like...'08/'09 i want to say? seeing this thread made me think of that show
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did anyone catch the Emerson/Lake tour in like...'08/'09 i want to say? seeing this thread made me think of that show
2010. That was such a treat to see. I got tickets for me and my dad to see it in New Bedford, MA. He brought me to my first ever big rock show, which just so happened to be Deep Purple and ELP with Dream Theater opening in 1998. I was able to pay him back with headlining shows of all three bands in '07 (DT), '10 (E&L), and '11 (DP). I think ELP was my favorite in '98, and they hadn't toured since then. This 2010 show was beautifully done with just the two of them and we both loved it. There's a great recording of the show in CT from that tour that I love hearing.
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ooh 2010, awesome! and yeah I remember it being a real treat to see them both on stage together
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Last I saw them was '96. But the '92/'93 tours were what I remember. I was third row center for the '93 show and I got a stick point and a wink from Carl during the show, and seeing Greg Lake from 10 feet way singing Pirates ("Six days, off the Cuban coast...") was transcendent.
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jealous of those that got to see the formal ELP. this is why i try to see all the legends and heroes while there's still time
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jealous of those that got to see the formal ELP. this is why i try to see all the legends and heroes while there's still time
DO IT. I tell the same thing to my daughter. There's no better time than the present.
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Last I saw them was '96. But the '92/'93 tours were what I remember. I was third row center for the '93 show and I got a stick point and a wink from Carl during the show, and seeing Greg Lake from 10 feet way singing Pirates ("Six days, off the Cuban coast...") was transcendent.
I saw them in August 1992 (my seat was not as good as yours). They closed the main set with Romeo & Juliet, Lucky Man, Pirates and Pictures at an Exhibition. That was fucking surreal!
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jealous of those that got to see the formal ELP. this is why i try to see all the legends and heroes while there's still time
DO IT. I tell the same thing to my daughter. There's no better time than the present.
:tup
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Last I saw them was '96. But the '92/'93 tours were what I remember. I was third row center for the '93 show and I got a stick point and a wink from Carl during the show, and seeing Greg Lake from 10 feet way singing Pirates ("Six days, off the Cuban coast...") was transcendent.
I saw them in August 1992 (my seat was not as good as yours). They closed the main set with Romeo & Juliet, Lucky Man, Pirates and Pictures at an Exhibition. That was fucking surreal!
Saw them on that tour as well. That was the same week that I got DT's Images and Words on cassette and I couldn't wait to show this cassette to my Dad and be like, "Dad, this is what ELP is inspiring!" Unfortunately, my walk-man ate not one, but two cassette copies of Images and Words and I was so disappointed!! Saw them in Cleveland and Detroit on back-to-back nights. Sets were the same, but ELP was on fire for both!
Last time I saw ELP was in 1998, I think. I think it was on their tour with Deep Purple, and Dream Theater opened.
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Last I saw them was '96. But the '92/'93 tours were what I remember. I was third row center for the '93 show and I got a stick point and a wink from Carl during the show, and seeing Greg Lake from 10 feet way singing Pirates ("Six days, off the Cuban coast...") was transcendent.
I saw them in August 1992 (my seat was not as good as yours). They closed the main set with Romeo & Juliet, Lucky Man, Pirates and Pictures at an Exhibition. That was fucking surreal!
Saw them on that tour as well. That was the same week that I got DT's Images and Words on cassette and I couldn't wait to show this cassette to my Dad and be like, "Dad, this is what ELP is inspiring!" Unfortunately, my walk-man ate not one, but two cassette copies of Images and Words and I was so disappointed!! Saw them in Cleveland and Detroit on back-to-back nights. Sets were the same, but ELP was on fire for both!
Last time I saw ELP was in 1998, I think. I think it was on their tour with Deep Purple, and Dream Theater opened.
Yeah...that would have been around the same time I first heard PMU on the radio and bought I&W.
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did anyone catch the Emerson/Lake tour in like...'08/'09 i want to say? seeing this thread made me think of that show
Passed on that one. In hindsight I probably shouldn't have since I'm not really too much of a Greg Lake fan, but Emerson was in the best shape he was in years at that time. Still can't bare to watch the final show in 2010 though.
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jealous of those that got to see the formal ELP. this is why i try to see all the legends and heroes while there's still time
I've seen Carl Palmer's band about 10 times over the last 15 years. (Though not in the last two or three years) He added "legacy" to the band name and is using footage for Keith and Greg from the Royal Albert Hall recording (Haven't seen that) I prefer to just watch Paul and Simon bring the music to life and they do a awesome job. These guys bring it.