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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Ħ on September 10, 2012, 12:47:21 PM
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Does anyone else hope that DT stops the two year album/tour cycle that they've stuck to? It does mean DT has consistent output of material, but...it's kinda boring. ADTOE was good and it had the core DT sound...but it was just...boring. It wasn't surprising. The live shows were fantastic, but the music itself? Not bad at all, but uninteresting.
Instead, I wish that they'd "shake up the system" for DT12. Do something kinda crazy. I don't know what...but something different that surprises all of us. Something that would reignite the love for DT inside the fans that are burned out on the same old stuff.
These are my musings this morning. What do y'all think?
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I disagree about ADTOE being boring.
But I wouldn't mind some radical changes for DT12. Could be fun.
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Does anyone else hope that DT stops the two year album/tour cycle that they've stuck to?
Yeah, I think I've heard that suggested before. Where did I hear that, now?
Oh, right! :psychosane:
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I obviously don't mean a complete break. :lol
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I've been wishing for it often, but it's clear they like what they're doing now.
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Does anyone else hope that DT stops the two year album/tour cycle that they've stuck to? It does mean DT has consistent output of material, but...it's kinda boring. ADTOE was good and it had the core DT sound...but it was just...boring. It wasn't surprising. The live shows were fantastic, but the music itself? Not bad at all, but uninteresting.
Instead, I wish that they'd "shake up the system" for DT12. Do something kinda crazy. I don't know what...but something different that surprises all of us. Something that would reignite the love for DT inside the fans that are burned out on the same old stuff.
These are my musings this morning. What do y'all think?
Absolutely not. Their music continues to be fresh and inspiring, and most fans are excited about any newly released material. If anything, I wish they could find the time to accellerate the cycle somewhat, even though I know it is unlikely.
Personally, I think anyone who finds a band "boring" simply because they release material on a regular schedule and doesn't include some shocking new "surprise" on each album just needs to adjust their own expectations and grow an attention span.
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:clap:
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I don't actually see what the release schedule has to do with the 'boring' music anyway. If they took five years instead it would magically become crazy and new and exciting?
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This is H we're talking about.
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I think the two-year system is fine. We really don't have a sample set of albums to determine how the music will sound with the new line-up, so we don't know if the two-year system will actually continue to effect them in the same way that you think. ADTOE (sort of) meets those requirements, but there was no MM input, except for his own parts. I'd say we will have to see how the next two albums go before we make any judgment on if the two-year cycle actually affects the quality of the music. They've also written material on the road during this past tour that could make it onto the new album, which they haven't done in years.
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I don't think they need a break, just for the record, but I have a personal prejudice against two-year cycles.
Yeah I don't get myself either.
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I don't actually see what the release schedule has to do with the 'boring' music anyway. If they took five years instead it would magically become crazy and new and exciting?
No, but the two year cycle fosters a certain "factory production" mindset.
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Ah, I see.
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I'm pretty content with what they are doing, and I don't want to give them any advice. Above all, they should go into the studio and record albums when they feel that they should do so, and neither be rushed or stalled by outside forces - that, I think, could lead them record a boring album. If they are comfortable with their 2-year-cycle, then they should by all means continue (though it probably helps that I quite like ADTOE, actually - had I not, my opinion might be different :hat).
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Does anyone else hope that DT stops the two year album/tour cycle that they've stuck to? It does mean DT has consistent output of material, but...it's kinda boring. ADTOE was good and it had the core DT sound...but it was just...boring. It wasn't surprising. The live shows were fantastic, but the music itself? Not bad at all, but uninteresting.
Instead, I wish that they'd "shake up the system" for DT12. Do something kinda crazy. I don't know what...but something different that surprises all of us. Something that would reignite the love for DT inside the fans that are burned out on the same old stuff.
These are my musings this morning. What do y'all think?
Nah, because this is entirely subjective. Just because you find something boring doesn't necessarily mean it is boring for everyone. The burn that flickered out within you has nothing to do with DTs writing or performance, it has everything to do with how you interpret what they do and how it ultimately affects you. What's old to you can remain fresh for others in the same amount of time passed. Others get bored after listening to 30 seconds of any kind of music, which is why mediocrity rules, dude!
Personally, I think as long as these guys are doing what they want and not held back by the opinions of the masses and the corporate entity, they're doing great and I'm a content guy.
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This whole cycle too fast thing is a little bizarre, it used to be commonplace for albums to be released every year in the 60's through the early 80's. Lots of great albums in that span, gestation of material isn't about time between albums but time spent on a single album. If the artists have the energy and desire it doesn't really matter how long it's been. Some people will like it, some won't, that's just the way it is.
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I'll just throw it out there that ADTOE, for me, is far from being boring or uninteresting. Quite the opposite, in fact; it's a breath of fresh air, because I wasn't a fan of the previous two albums.
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I would also add that in interviews I've read artists talk about how songs have formed ideas they've had for decades, either in their bag of licks or on some old demo recording. I always got the impression that a lot of these artists are sitting around with bags full of half ideas waiting for the right moment to use them. Not everything is created on the fly.
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If you didn't like A Dramatic Turn of Events, or thought it was boring, then it's time to consider the following: What's changed? Dream Theater, or your tastes?
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If you didn't like A Dramatic Turn of Events, or thought it was boring, then it's time to consider the following: What's changed? Dream Theater, or your tastes?
Well my tastes don't change that rapidly. Is it possible that, you know, someone just doesn't like something without it being a sign of great change in the band or his/her tastes? ;)
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On thinking about this later in the day, ADTOE did have a few new elements. Mike Mangini, the drummer audition footage, the preview snippets....not to mention the live performances were done in a new way for DT. I'm probably being nitpicky. :)
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Not with you at all, I'm afraid. A change is as good as a break, and they've got a new drummer, a new band leader, a new status quo with a new ethos, increased contributions from John Myung, outside producers on the vocals, Mike Mangini will be writing on the next album... they're fine for change, right now!
I love weirdness, and revel in changes, but they've only just had the biggest one of their career! Do I hope the new album surprises me, and treads new ground, and proves Dream Theater are capable of working in new formats and doing new things I would have never expected to hear on a DT album? Yep, totally. But they've just endured their biggest change in 20-odd years. They're hardly slouching.
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I'll admit that I didn't like ADTOE very much at first, but it grew on me over time. It's not even close to boring. However, I do skip a couple tracks on a regular basis (Far From Heaven, Beneath The Surface) because I just can't get into those songs. The rest of the album is fantastic.
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If you didn't like A Dramatic Turn of Events, or thought it was boring, then it's time to consider the following: What's changed? Dream Theater, or your tastes?
Well my tastes don't change that rapidly. Is it possible that, you know, someone just doesn't like something without it being a sign of great change in the band or his/her tastes? ;)
Well, not when it's as good as ADTOE. Sorry ;D
I'm probably being nitpicky. :)
You're not a seasoned fan until you enter the "nitpicky" stage!
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ADTOE wasn't boring; BC&SL was boring. I'd like to see them go in a more experimental direction next time, though.
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While ADTOE was a bit dull, I don't think it has anything to do with the 2 year cycle, and they've managed to release a lot of great albums from a 2 year cycle. It also sounds like they've been doing a bit of writing on the road this time, so I don't see a problem at all.
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While ADTOE was a bit dull, I don't think it has anything to do with the 2 year cycle, and they've managed to release a lot of great albums from a 2 year cycle. It also sounds like they've been doing a bit of writing on the road this time, so I don't see a problem at all.
Well according to JR, they have a few jams so far but nothing else.
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While ADTOE was a bit dull, I don't think it has anything to do with the 2 year cycle, and they've managed to release a lot of great albums from a 2 year cycle. It also sounds like they've been doing a bit of writing on the road this time, so I don't see a problem at all.
Well according to JR, they have a few jams so far but nothing else.
Ok. I just recall hearing about it a couple of times, but I wasn't sure to what extent. I figured it was something more than that, but I guess not.
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Taking a break would've been a good idea in the SC/BC&SL era when they were running out of steam but now they have Mike Mangini with them in the writing process and they seem enthusiastic enough to put a new album out as soon as possible.
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Does anyone else hope that DT stops the two year album/tour cycle that they've stuck to? It does mean DT has consistent output of material, but...it's kinda boring. ADTOE was good and it had the core DT sound...but it was just...boring. It wasn't surprising. The live shows were fantastic, but the music itself? Not bad at all, but uninteresting.
Instead, I wish that they'd "shake up the system" for DT12. Do something kinda crazy. I don't know what...but something different that surprises all of us. Something that would reignite the love for DT inside the fans that are burned out on the same old stuff.
These are my musings this morning. What do y'all think?
Absolutely not. Their music continues to be fresh and inspiring, and most fans are excited about any newly released material. If anything, I wish they could find the time to accellerate the cycle somewhat, even though I know it is unlikely.
Personally, I think anyone who finds a band "boring" simply because they release material on a regular schedule and doesn't include some shocking new "surprise" on each album just needs to adjust their own expectations and grow an attention span.
^^This exactly
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Okay, that makes three people that think I need to adjust my expectations and grow an attention span. Sheesh, I'm a Symphony X fan. They release an album about once every ten years.
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Okay, that makes three people that think I need to adjust my expectations and grow an attention span. Sheesh, I'm a Symphony X fan. They release an album about once every ten years.
Well, I don't think so. I partly agree with you. I really like ADTOE, but it isn't the most original album DT have ever made. It's still more original than BC&SL, though. But I don't think this is due to the two year cycle. I think that with MM participating in the writing of the next album, that album will become a lot more interesting than ADTOE. They might not do something crazy, but I've got a feeling that it won't be a ADTOE 2.0.
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As a matter of fact, I don't mind releasing an album every year, as long as the albums are as good as A Dramatic turn of events.
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On the contrary; as I just stated in the other thread, I miss the days when my favorite bands put out new quality albums EVERY YEAR. I'm thinking Maiden 1980-1986 as kind of the gold standard, but you also have Rush 1976-1981 and tons of other examples from that era. The 2-year cycle is too long for me.
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The "problem" is in your mind. I mean, it is just your perception. I'm SymphonyX fan too and for me what they do is just horrible, they are wasting their time as a band imho by releasing albums every 5-6 years.
All what DT is doing these days is amazing for me and I hope they continue releasing albums, but not every 2 years, let's hope every year. I miss the days when a band put out a new quality album every year too. I suppose it is because the album sales are not the same anymore, and they focus a lot in touring.
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The "problem" is in your mind. I mean, it is just your perception. I'm SymphonyX fan too and for me what they do is just horrible, they are wasting their time as a band imho by releasing albums every 5-6 years.
All what DT is doing these days is amazing for me and I hope they continue releasing albums, but not every 2 years, let's hope every year. I miss the days when a band put out a new quality album every year too. I suppose it is because the album sales are not the same anymore, and they focus a lot in touring.
Not really. Dream Theater albums are nearly twice as long as most albums. Back in the vinyl days, a single vinyl on both sides holds up to about 45-50 minutes of music, so albums were generally less than that, and that trend for someone reason held on for CDs which hold up to 80 minutes. But Dream Theater albums are usually ~75 minutes long, barring WDADU, I&W and SDOIT. They write more music per-album than most artists.
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I used to be the type who criticized DT for releasing albums so quickly, but that was somewhat born out of frustration over the lack of interesting music they put out. If they can put out an ADTOE with their usual cycle, I can live with that.
That said, I always like it when bands take chances, like Opeth for example. I'm not sure DT is that kind of band however, partially because it's much more a collaborative effort than Opeth or Porcupine Tree. Opeth's Heritage was really a result of Akerfeldt getting bored with the usual death metal style.
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Okay, that makes three people that think I need to adjust my expectations and grow an attention span. Sheesh, I'm a Symphony X fan. They release an album about once every ten years.
Well that is your problem right there ;D
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Not with you at all, I'm afraid. A change is as good as a break, and they've got a new drummer, a new band leader, a new status quo with a new ethos, increased contributions from John Myung, outside producers on the vocals, Mike Mangini will be writing on the next album... they're fine for change, right now!
I love weirdness, and revel in changes, but they've only just had the biggest one of their career! Do I hope the new album surprises me, and treads new ground, and proves Dream Theater are capable of working in new formats and doing new things I would have never expected to hear on a DT album? Yep, totally. But they've just endured their biggest change in 20-odd years. They're hardly slouching.
Something new........ maybe progressive polka.
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I think SC is quite a bit more boring than this, but yeah, If anything I wish they would condense the cycle. Two years is plenty of time to promote/tour the record, take a vacation to refuel the fire, and get back on the saddle for the next one. Back in the day bands did all this in one year.
The band isn't getting any younger, and we all know that they don't want to take an extended break. They sort of lost a founding member because of it. If they're happy with the two year cycle I say let it be. As much as it sucks thinking about it, there will come a time when these guys decide to call it a day. Personally I'd like them to release as much music as possible before that time comes.
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I'm a Symphony X fan.
Volumes have been spoken.
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:ZeppDT: <- volumes
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It has less to do with how often a band releases music, and more to do with how inspired they actually feel/are when making a new album. They seem really inspired these days (moreso than they have in years), and I'm sure that DT12 will reflect that, regardless of how long it takes them to make it.
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I am fine with the two year cycle as long as it doesn't start getting longer than that. At first listen I didn't like ADTOE but after a couple of listens I grew to appreciate most of the songs. I do think there are too many ballads on the disc as they are the weak links in my opinion. I don't think they've put out a boring album since Awake :o .
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I am fine with the two year cycle as long as it doesn't start getting longer than that. At first listen I didn't like ADTOE but after a couple of listens I grew to appreciate most of the songs. I do think there are too many ballads on the disc as they are the weak links in my opinion. I don't think they've put out a boring album since Awake :o .
I honestly don't think they've put out a boring album ever. Even BC&SL, my least favourite album to listen to, interests me pretty much the whole way through.
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They definitely should not slow down right now. They just replaced a key member, and while Mangini has won over most of the fans, he still hasn't really proven himself in the studio, so a new album, with MM as an actual contributing song writer, should be delivered in short order to secure his position as the new drummer. A Mike Portnoy-less DT still has a lot to prove to the fans, and ADTOE was just the first step. They now have to show that MM is more then just a flashy hired gun. He has to show he is a drummer who can be creative in the studio as well as insanely talented at live shows.
Also, the band has to prove that they can continue to maintain high chart positions and album sales with the new lineup. One of the reasons why MP's timing for his hiatus was so poor was due to the fact that DT had just cracked the Top 10 for the first time in their careers. To take a hiatus just when the mainstream was finally starting to open up would have been incredibly foolish. With MM, the band not only had a second Top 10 album (albeit slightly lower then the last MP album), but also a Grammy nomination. Dream Theater should continue their drive into the mainstream while the momentum is still with them, and see just how far they can go in the music business.
One last thing. Although it may be an outside chance, one of the few things that could push the band's career even further would be for them to make a true masterpiece of an album, on par with I&W or SFAM. I don't know how likely this is, but with the recent roster shake-up, the creative juices a probably flowing is quantities unseen in a very long time. ADTOE, despite some new elements, was overall a very safe album for the band to make. If they really push the envelope, they could have a third opus in the bag, and such an album would not only secure MM's position in the band, but also further the position of the band as a whole in the wider world of music, and may be one of the few things that could help Dream Theater to finally crack the Top 5, and maybe even have a # 1 album. It is a long shot, but I feel that it is definately in the realm of possibility.
Clearly, DT still has more room to rise, and they should continue pushing up further until they hit an obvious popularity ceiling. When that happens, then DT can consider taking a break, slowing down their output, and turning their attention towards other endeavours outside the band. I personally feel that if the band is smart, the next two or three albums (at least) will still be made on their current two year cycle of albums and tours. After that, then the band probably should consider taking a break, whether MM works out or not, whether they break further into the mainstream or not, and whether they make another grand masterpiece or not. By that point, with 13 or 14 albums under their belts and all the band members in their 50's, the band will be reaching pretty far into seniority as a rock band, and scaling back their activities as Dream Theater may be a necessity for the good of the band.
EDIT: also, a lot of what I wrote in this post:https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=33986.msg1396026#msg1396026 (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=33986.msg1396026#msg1396026) has relevance to this topic, as well as it's native thread.
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I thought ADTOE was pretty great, but I've been saying I'd like them to push the envelope and do something musically different outside of the prog metal sphere for quite a while. But I understand that they risk alienating fans, etc. by doing something like that, and I guess they are playing the type of music they enjoy most if they've been doing it for all these years.
-J