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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: MetalMike06 on August 16, 2012, 09:29:31 PM
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I'm sure some people here have heard Wintersun. The self-titled is, I dare to say, my personal favorite album in the history of music. Needless to say I'm really stoked for Time I this October. I've literally been waiting since 2006 when it was originally supposed to come out. It's been a tough wait, but finally it's about here.
Anybody else love this band (Well, it's pretty much a Jari solo project) as much as I do?
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Great album, but I didn't know about a follow up. Going to be tough to live up to expectations, I would guess.
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Big fan of the debut, which is an absolute masterpiece to say the least. It's going to be hard to follow it up, but I'm still looking forward to the new one.
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Since their debut album I've been a fan of them. Jari creates some amazing music...
There has been live footage on Youtube of a new song for a really long time now, and it sounds great, just what you would expect after the first album.
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Yeah, I've watched the videos of the new song many times, and it makes me suspect the album just might surpass the first one. However, apparently that song will be on Time II, not I.
Anyway, I awoke to a nice piece of news today: The album artwork. You can hear some album teasers in the youtube links as well.
(https://www.wintermadness.net/Wintersun_Time-I_Cover.jpg)
"Sons of winter and stars – Rise!"
This short but significant excerpt of the track „Sons of Winter And Stars“ not only is the wake-up call for everyone interested in music, it´s the battle cry of a band that released their self-titled debut album eight long years ago and had had to live up to the highest expectations and pressure of time for the eagerly awaited successor ever since. As „Wintersun“ turned out to be a critically-acclaimed masterpiece of musical art, the band unintentionally found themselves facing the situation of having to out-do their previous work, and soon.
2012 it´s finally time to unleash WINTERSUN´s second full-length album „TIME I“. Over the course of eight years the band have taken both music and visuals to yet another level and while listening to their new effort you´ll be taken on a journey through the doors of time, a journey beyond the stars, beyond the birth of the worlds to an infinite universe.
Finland´s epic metaller will release their long-awaited album „TIME I“ on October 12 before hitting the road in October/November headlining the so-called Heidenfest tour. Recently the band went into the studio with photographer Nana Simelius to shoot the new pictures for the upcoming album and now the breathtakingly beautiful front cover of „TIME I“ has been unveiled.
Commented the band:
"We searched many options who could actually make the cover for TIME I. Cameron´s way of creating art was just something that stood out immediately and we feel it suited best for Jari´s vision as a cover for TIME I. We are really happy for the result and hopefully this collaboration continues in the future releases as well!"
Homepage Cameron Gray:
www.parablevisions.com
Official album teaser:
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoAUK5KOwRs
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnUxQrw0ToM
Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-71I1dn9i0
Check out a behind-the-scenes video of the photoshooting here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeC_gzsogho&feature=youtu.be
Click here to see the photo gallery of the photoshoot:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151062993672402.457602.8120427401
“TIME I” will be released October 12 via Nuclear Blast, the tracklisting looks as follows:
1. When Time Fades Away
2. Sons of Winter and Stars
I Rain of Stars
II Surrounded by Darkness
III Journey Inside a Dream
IV Sons of Winter and Stars
3. Land of Snow and Sorrow
4. Darkness and Frost
5. Time
www.wintersun.fi
www.rockthenation.eu
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Yes yes and hell YEAH!
Great to see a thread dedicated to Wintersun, their debut album is a classic and one of my fave albums of all time.
After many delays, perhaps the most delayed album in metal history (or even ever?) finally a release date.
Yes very mixed feelings on how it will sound, will it match or better the debut?
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I just listened to their debut album and thought it was absolutely awesome. I don't listen to a lot of things in this style but I'm going to keep spinning Wintersun for a while.
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I'll believe it when it's on my hard drive.
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I'll believe it when it's on my hard drive.
yeah, it's a bit like that, but it's happening bro!!! :metal
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I'll believe it when it's on my hard drive.
It will be on my HD, Japanese CD, Euro CD, Tour Edtion, TIme I & II boxset, the works :)
I'm buying them all!
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Only thing that pisses me off is that the North American release date is nearly a month after Europe's. I usually just buy albums on iTunes, but does anyone know of the best way to maybe get a European version ahead of time?
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aaaaaaaaaaaaa I am addicted to their debut for some reason. Absolutely a perfect blend of genres, and WINTER.
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Absolutely a perfect blend of genres, and WINTER.
Totally this.
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So I might have gone just a little crazy with my pre-order of Time I.
From the NB shop I have coming my way Time I; regular CD, CD/DVD, CD/DVD Boxset, Vinyl and Wintersun debut double vinyl, with shipping to Australia for AUS$155.
Hopefully the album won't suck :o
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So I might have gone just a little crazy with my pre-order of Time I.
From the NB shop I have coming my way Time I; regular CD, CD/DVD, CD/DVD Boxset, Vinyl and Wintersun debut double vinyl, with shipping to Australia for AUS$155.
Hopefully the album won't suck :o
That's a pretty good price actually.
Have you ordered from Nuclear Blast before? how much is their shipping usually?
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I ordered from them many time when I lived in the UK, but not since returning to Australia.
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I ordered from them many time when I lived in the UK, but not since returning to Australia.
Fair enough. Still seems like a really good price though.
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Wintersun remind me of Children of Bodom somehow, only better.
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Some of the guitar melodies on Wintersun are reminiscent of Hatebreeder era CoB, but other than totally different bands all round.
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According to Wintersun's facebook page, they'll be releasing a couple snippets tomorrow. :biggrin:
Also...I'm about to preorder!
By the way, does anybody know the difference between the boxset and the regular CD/DVD? They're about seven euros price difference.
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A couple of clips have been released in this trailer! :metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9XDXvqTcCY&feature=youtu.be&hd=1
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Sounds fucking incredible, can't wait to get the CD.
As for your question about the CD/DVD box set, my guess is along the lines of previous NB box set, you will get the CD/DVD and maybe postcards, pics, or some other promo gimmick/novelty and of course the limited edition certificate.
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Hell yeah :metal Can't wait for this!
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I still don't believe it.
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According to the NB website, the exclusive mail order box will have an extra disc of all instrumental songs, by that I presume it will be, 'Time I' minus Jari's vox.
As well as a certificate number of /500
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Wintersun is going on tour with Eluveitie in the States in November/December. Wintersun is main support. The only date I know about is December 9th at Station 4 in St. Paul, MN
Full dates will be announced soon.
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Wintersun is going on tour with Eluveitie in the States in November/December. Wintersun is main support. The only date I know about is December 9th at Station 4 in St. Paul, MN
Full dates will be announced soon.
:2metal:
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https://www.bravewords.com/news/189684 (https://www.bravewords.com/news/189684)
Announced the day after you mentioned it! :metal
My friends and I are actually now planning to go the the St. Paul show, as it's the closest drive and it's on a weekend.
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https://www.bravewords.com/news/189684 (https://www.bravewords.com/news/189684)
Announced the day after you mentioned it! :metal
My friends and I are actually now planning to go the the St. Paul show, as it's the closest drive and it's on a weekend.
Awesome. I will be there as well. :metal
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Major bump for this one, new album is only a couple of weeks away now and I can't wait....
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Yep. When it's released some friends and I are going to have a getogether and blast it on my buddy's big stereo. :biggrin:
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Yep. When it's released some friends and I are going to have a getogether and blast it on my buddy's big stereo. :biggrin:
Me too! Preordering it with the ex-boyfriend, and he has a kickass sound system, so there's gonna be like 7 of us there or something. Gonna do the same thing too with the new Kamelot :3
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Anxiously waiting for this, I'm actually really looking forward to hearing it. The samples sound promising.
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October is literally the best music month. Cannot wait for this.
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I know Wintersun are playing a couple shows in Finland starting tomorrow, and they'll be playing Time I songs. I hope to see something on youtube the next day. :crossingfingers: But at the same time I don't want to spoil it for the release date.
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Not for me, I really don't want to hear badly distorted audio and blurred vision from a phone recording, less than a week left now.
I'm thinking about getting up at midnight Friday morning and d/l from iTunes.
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I preordered it today. Both that and Kamelot. So we shall see :hat
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Can't wait to hear this. One of my most anticipated albums of the year.
Edit: IT'S OUT THERE!
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It's quite beautiful, which surprised me. I don't really like epic stuff anymore, but it was beautiful. I thought it would sit 'round an 8, so far it's a 9, I have some minor issues with it but I'm quite digging it. Can't wait for the CD to arrive.
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so good <3
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Really digging this album. The Devin Townsend influence is quite apparent.
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Wow. I don't know what to say really. Well, it's effin' amazing, of course. It's gonna take many more listens to digest, I think. For much of the album, there's just so much stuff going on with orchestrations, you don't even know what to focus on.
Can't wait for the physical copy + shirt to arrive.
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I'm almost speechless, incredible stuff, worth all these years of waiting and part II next year :)
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First time listening to Wintersun and this album is really great. I'm probably gonna have to check out all the rest of their stuff now :laugh:
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First time listening to Wintersun and this album is really great. I'm probably gonna have to check out all the rest of their stuff now :laugh:
Not much to check out, only one other album.
Waiting for my copy but looking forward to it.
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Oh ok, well I guess that means I don't have to ask for recommendations huh
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Reall digging the new album. Soooooooooooooooooo much going on. I am amazed and am hearing new things with each listen.
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Now I know what all these reviewers meant when they said there was a lot to take in and would take many listens to sort everything out. The symphonic aspect is so overpowering, but I'm fine with that 'cause I love epic stuff.
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I've listened 10 times so far and it keeps getting better and better.
It makes Nightwish and Blind Guardian sound like a 3 chord punk band!
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Having never heard Wintersun before, i gave this a shot the other day.
They sound like an Alestorm that takes themselves seriously.
Not my thing I guess....
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Wow there's so much going on with instrumentation, it's a lot to take in. After only one listen i'm currently not sure about this album, but that's how I feel about most albums after one listen so Time will tell :lol
There seems to be a lot of those chord sequences that change at unexpected times, i think i'm missing something there, i don't really get those.
Generally epic sounding though, hoping there's some growers though because, let's face it, new music that's cool is cool.
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I'm really liking this album. Not as good as the debut, but seriously, was anyone expecting it to be? Part II will probably be better than this, though.
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Having never heard Wintersun before, i gave this a shot the other day.
They sound like an Alestorm that takes themselves seriously.
Not my thing I guess....
I can't stand Alestorm, a 4th rate joke band, definitely something that Wintersun are NOT.
WS sound nothing like them, not even in the same universe.
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I'm really liking this album. Not as good as the debut, but seriously, was anyone expecting it to be?
Well, I was :lol Honestly it's hard to compare them. I suppose the debut is just so memorized by now, that this one still seems too fresh to me. The first one was a bit more straightforward in a sense and the melodies I think stood out way more; this one is way more complex in terms of orchestrations and overall song structure. But I still can't say which one is "better"; they're just different...as cliche as that response is.
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Having never heard Wintersun before, i gave this a shot the other day.
They sound like an Alestorm that takes themselves seriously.
Not my thing I guess....
I can't stand Alestorm, a 4th rate joke band, definitely something that Wintersun are NOT.
WS sound nothing like them, not even in the same universe.
Right, Alestorm are epic and cheesy as a joke. Wintersun are epic and cheesy incidentally.
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Having never heard Wintersun before, i gave this a shot the other day.
They sound like an Alestorm that takes themselves seriously.
Not my thing I guess....
I can't stand Alestorm, a 4th rate joke band, definitely something that Wintersun are NOT.
WS sound nothing like them, not even in the same universe.
Right, Alestorm are epic and cheesy as a joke. Wintersun are epic and cheesy incidentally.
What are you talking about? Alestorm is the best thing evar. :P
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Realllllly digging this album. I'm usually pretty skeptical about very orchestrated albums, but Time I is extremely well done. I've listened to it a few times, but it's definitely an album that is going to need more time (hah) to sink in.
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Damn vocals! >:(
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Damn vocals! >:(
yeeeeah they're totally awesome
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Damn vocals! >:(
Oh yeah the vocals are brilliant, Jari has really improved his clean singing and his growls are better than ever.
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Wow how could i have missed Wintersun's debut? It saddens me that it was released 8 years ago and i listen to it for the first time yesterday!!
Anyway....amazing album and production! I knew Kai Hahto from before but had no idea he played on their debut. He is just a beast in everyway way!
Just started listen to the new album and i have one fitting word to say so far: Epic!
Check out this clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gNWZ7zW_0M&list=UUjarSWfAw4kWpaQZrtzwHeg&index=15&feature=plcp) with Kai warming up on his new kit....dat sound!!
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Having never heard Wintersun before, i gave this a shot the other day.
They sound like an Alestorm that takes themselves seriously.
Not my thing I guess....
I can't stand Alestorm, a 4th rate joke band, definitely something that Wintersun are NOT.
WS sound nothing like them, not even in the same universe.
Right, Alestorm are epic and cheesy as a joke. Wintersun are epic and cheesy incidentally.
How is epic and cheesy ever a bad thing???
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How is epic and cheesy ever a bad thing???
This.
And I need to check out this band.
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Time I is so much fun to listen to.
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Yeah I think I'm finally starting to digest the album. It's pretty much the only metal album I've been listening to lately. Supposedly part II is even better.
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I finally got the CD/DVD today, from my local metal shop, still waiting for my NB order though.
Watching the DVD and Jari showing just how complicated Sons of Winter is, no wonder it took him so long and mixing it seems almost impossible!
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The live rehearsals on the bonus DVD. Guys. Jari's voice is even better than on the album. I always knew he could sing but man he's one of my fave "clean" singers now. Amazing how he's improved, and getting more of his clean voice recorded on the album was a very good call. And seeing Kai Hahto beat the shit outta those drums... He and Mangini have my top 2 spots, no doubt about it.
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Got the album tonight and just listening to Sons of Winter before bed. On first hearing, I'm really liking what I'm hearing. It seems more orchestral and polished than the debut, but I really like what I'm hearing. Love the variation in the vocals too, and can't wait to check the DVD.
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Got my CD + DVD copy of Time I today!
:corn
I'm about to devour my self through the rehearsals from the DVD in a sec. or two! :metal
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Got my CD + DVD copy of Time I today!
:corn
I'm about to devour my self through the rehearsals from the DVD in a sec. or two! :metal
You'll love it :metal
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My copy is in the mail and should be here tomorrow. Completely blind purchase. Hoping it's worth it.
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Some of my favourite parts so far:
I love the whole japanese feel of the intro song, beautiful melodies. Sets the mood of the album in a nice way. Sons of Winter and Stars.....what a beast of a track and my favourite on the album.
*The vocal introduction at 1:20 with first the choir and then Jari is awesome.
*The guitar riff at 1:39 that Teemu shows on the DVD. It's hard to hear with everything goin on but there's a nice rhytmic figure in the riff when the the vocal and kai's blasting begins at 1:53 that i like very much.
*3:23 another cool riff.
*3:50 - 4:31 Epic section.
*5:20 Kai's china groove and his whole build up to 5:37.....well Kai's drumming in general on the album is top notch!
*The dreamy part at 8:17.
*10:41 Just.....just epic!
Land of Snow and Sorrow: Haven't really got any parts that stand out to me yet but a cool mid-tempo song nevertheless.
Darkness and Frost: Cool and spacey introduction to Time.
*I absolutly love when the Jari comes in at 1:56.
*6:17 nice solo.
*3:37 Gotta love some nice ol' black metal riffin...hard to hear on the album mix but on the rehearsal session on the DVD you hear that riff more dominante, i especially like when the riffs goes down an octave.
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I've given this album a couple of weeks and several plays, waiting for it to open up for me.
And it isn't happening.
Sorry, guys, but to me this is a hot mess, a bunch of meandering, overly long songs with a total lack of flow. It feels like its overly complicated and orchestral not because the songs required it, but because the band just wanted it to be overly complicated and orchestral. And I'm a guy who devours tech death and had no problem with how over the top with orchestrations Blind Guardian's A Night At The Opera was. The debut is loads better.
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Bump.
Making the trek to MN to see them tomorrow! Anybody else catching them/Eluveitie on the current NA tour?
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I would love to see them, but the only stuff around here is hick music (otherwise known as country music)
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I will be there at Station 4, Weather permitting.
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Oh shit yeah...Just checked and apparently there's a snowstorm coming through there. Perfect timing :tdwn
Ah well, the trip is still on. Tickets have already been bought long ago. Leaving in a couple hours.
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Bump, 'cause I'm spinning the debut again, and it's amazing. This is sure to feature high on my second Top 50. There's just so much good stuff here... Winter Madness, Sleeping Stars, Death and the Healing, Beautiful Death are all :hefdaddy and the rest is really, really good as well. :metal :metal :metal
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Wintersun North American Headlining tour, possibly with Fleshgod Apocalypse and Arsis opening, happening at the end of the summer.
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(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/485592_10151656412912402_218066559_n.jpg)
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I want Europe.
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This would be completely awesome... if they actually came to Europe. :yeahright Wintersun AND Arsis! I'd be SO down for that.
In other news, I finally got around to checking out Time I. It's good, but the debut pisses all over it. Then again, it's a masterpiece, and I really wasn't expecting Jari to hit gold AGAIN on Wintersun's second offering.
Speaking of Wintersun: rank the debut! For me, it's fucking hard, because nearly every song is completely amazing, but it would probably be something like this:
1. Winter Madness,
2. Death and the Healing
3. Sadness and Hate
4. Starchild
5. Sleeping Stars
6. Beautiful Death
7. Beneath the Dark Sun
8. Battle Against Time
Or something like that. No song on that album is less than a 9/10.
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I'll probably be seeing this. Don't know if there any other Fleshgod Apocalypse fans here, but they're absolutely insane. Them and Arsis are perfect openers for Wintersun.
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I agree on the debut, totally amazing but then again Time feels not like a complete album givin it only has 3 "real" songs. It will be interesting to hear what Time II will be like.
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rank the debut! For me, it's fucking hard, because nearly every song is completely amazing, but it would probably be something like this:
1. Winter Madness,
2. Death and the Healing
3. Sadness and Hate
4. Starchild
5. Sleeping Stars
6. Beautiful Death
7. Beneath the Dark Sun
8. Battle Against Time
1. Sleeping Stars
2. Winter Madness
3. Starchild
4. Beyond The Dark Sun
5. Sadness And Hate
6. Battle Against Time
7. Death And The Healing
8. Beautiful Death
I actually prefer Time I over the debut. If the second part is at least as good as the first, then Time would be one of the greatest albums to come out within the last couple of years.
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Just got my tickets for the Wintersun & Fleshgod Apocalypse show here in NYC for the beginning of August!
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So when is Time II coming out?
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Kai stated last week: "Time 2 is not ready yet, the mixing is still on the works, but as we dont sell millions of albums we also need to tour and play live to get an income out of time 1, so we continue mixing after the north american tour. So there's no ' nuclear blast money making plan' behind.thanks!-Kai
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So when is Time II coming out?
:soon:
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So when is Time II coming out?
A while ago Kai said they hope to release it before summer 2014.
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Gave this a re-listen today after listening to the debut, and this is better than I gave credit to the first time, but it's still a little overly complicated and orchestrated. Hoping the next album is a bit less epic and more like the debut, rather than three long songs and a couple of interludes.
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IIRC, Jari said a couple of times that there will be some shorter, more aggressive songs and that the guitar plays a bigger role than on Time I.
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Just got back from seeing Wintersun in NYC. One of the most epic shows I've ever been too. The crowd singing along to Time and Sons of Winter and Stars just.. incredible. I actually enjoyed Fleshgod Apocalypse. But not nearly as much as Wintersun. :metal
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New song:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/wintersun-quality-fan-filmed-performance-footage-of-song-from-forthcoming-album/
And yes, Blabbermouth DID get redesigned. :lol Song seems a bit less busy and more like the first album to me. :metal
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I saw them play this at Irving Plaza in NYC. I'm very excited for the new album.
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Just got back from seeing them in Eau Claire, WI. Awesome show, though apprently the venue is a children's theatre and therefore not used to hosting metal shows (I assume they had to use this place 'cause Station 4 in St. Paul got closed for renovations or something); the PA system looked pretty minimal but they made it work the best they could.
I had never heard Fleshgod Apocalypse before, but holy shit, they really impressed me. Got their new album and a shirt as well.
Set was something like:
Time I album all the way though
Death and the Healing
Winter Madness
The Way of the Fire (the unreleased Time II song, though various live videos have been floating around since 2011)
Beyond the Dark Sun
Starchild
I was kind of bummed they didn't play Beautiful Death, because they have been playing it on this tour elsewhere, and it's one of my favorites.
I'm actually going to be in Florida while they tour down there so I might end up seeing them again!
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High on GoT I felt for some Wintersun this morning so I blasted Time I in my car on my way to work. Still an awesome album! :metal
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Yeah it rocks. Hopefully Time II will come out someday.
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Yep I guess they are a bit nervous to announce a release date given their past.
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Yes I was playing it in my car yesterday, very loud, and it is one of the most amazing albums in my collection.
No news anywhere on Time II, more top secret bullshit, not even an update....
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I WANTS TIME II
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If Time II turns out to be as good as Time I, the combination would be one of the greatest albums ever. I mean every song on Time I is absolutely unreal. :metal :hearts:
Just release the damn thing already!!
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I like Time I but thought it was a bit short. I would've prefered that Jari to got his shit together and put a complete Time years ago. Now history repeats itself and the second half of Time is prone to Time jokes again. But yeah, at least everything they released thus far was really good and I loved the two times I saw them live.
But man, I really wish that Jari was more productive. And aside from the amazing songwriting, I thought Time I lacked a bit on the production side. Those studio rehearsals sound better to me.
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Speaking of the studio rehearsals, watching it today, put the sound from 2 channels to 5 and sounds a little different.
Now watching Jari explain his pain staking processes and mixes of Time 1.
I mean 1628 tracks for Sons of Winters and Stars!!!
When he has time, a surround mix of that would be incredible.
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TIME II!!! COMING :soon: !!
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I'm not holding my breath :biggrin:
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TIME II!!! COMING :soon: !!
yeah right.
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Posted by Jari on FB, doesn't seem we will see Time II anytime soon.
Reality Update About Crowd Funding, TIME II And Future Albums
I´m very happy to see that we have so much dedicated fans that would be willing to pledge and be a part of funding a studio for Wintersun, so I could make the next Wintersun album without it taking another 10 years again.
I´ve been thinking about this Kickstarter/Pledge crowd funding thing for a while and I´m very confident now that there is enough of you guys that would help us raise the money for the Wintersun studio! This would give me the freedom to make music efficiently and nonstop. It would eliminate lot of the problems I´ve struggled with all my life and still continue to struggle everyday. For example right now I need a studio to reamp guitars for TIME II. And not just any studio, my own studio where I can craft my sounds exactly like I want them. 3rd party studios have never worked for me and I´ve never gotten satisfactory results for the insane prices they charge.
I live in a small shitty apartment building and I have neighbors. It is very very hard to work like this. I can´t record vocals, I can´t practise my singing, I can´t record guitars, I can´t record guitars even with modelling amps, because the electricity is so bad in this shitty building so I get lots of interference, I even play and practise the electric guitar acoustically without an amp 99% of the time in my home, I can´t record drums or basically any acoustic instruments, I don´t have the room or cool space for a big computer farm which is a must for the orchestrations for the next album (the place is too small and hot even for the one computer I have), I can´t mix properly, ´cause the room is so bad and there´s always ambient noise in and outside the building. That´s why I usually turn my sleeping rhythm around and mix at nights, but that causes problems in my everyday life. I can´t do pretty much anything properly in this situation. Building a professional studio for Wintersun would erase all this and give us the freedom to make music nonstop. It would upgrade our album sound significantly and most importantly speed up the album making process significantly. This would even raise our live game. With proper preproduction, able to tweak our live sounds and setup properly we would sound pretty incredible live. We would also be able to rehearse more and that would allow us to be able to play live more often and come to places where we normally have not been able to come. The studio would allow us to have more time for everything.
But the problem is this. I have a record deal with Nuclear Blast. If I would do a Kickstarter with a downloadable album for example, they would come with lawyers and take % share (more than half) away from the money that is your money meant for the Wintersun studio and the album production. Would you even want to pledge if Wintersun didn´t get 100% of the money you´ve pledged for the album production? Then our management would take their % share away. Then there´s taxes of course. The Finnish government would take something like 40% away. This would leave me nothing. I would be totally screwed. I´ve been trying to have a discussion with Nuclear Blast about crowd funding, but they are totally freaking out. They see the crowd funding as a threat to their business and they would rather see Wintersun dead, than me doing a crowd funding. I think this would not hurt them at all, only benefit them, but they cannot see the big picture of Wintersun doing well. They actually told me point blank that I should just stop making music and they will never release Wintersun from the contract. It´s really like this, because they can´t or won´t loan me enough money to build a studio and fund an album, they don´t want other people (the fans) to fund it either… unless they get a crazy big cut of the funding (for doing absolutely nothing).
This is the way a record deal works: The label gives an advance to make an album. This is a loan and they will recoup every penny back from the record sales. The reason why TIME I&II has taken so long to make (and still is taking long to finish TIME II), is because I haven´t gotten enough advances (money) to make these complex albums. Not even close. So I´ve been struggling all these years and sacrificed everything to make these albums. I have never really made any money from Wintersun. All my money has gone to album production, but you can guess who have made tons of money from Wintersun. The point is that I need my own studio to make the future albums, but Nuclear Blast won´t be able to loan enough money to make that happen and then they won´t allow me to do a crow funding campaign either that would make it happen. And even if Nuclear Blast would be able to loan me the money for the studio, our management would take their share of that money and I would get only part of the money, but I would still have to pay back 100% to Nuclear Blast from the record sales. So I would actually lose big chunk of the album production money straight away, which makes no sense at all. And then there´s the taxes. So there´s no point of taking these “loans” either.
This all is stressing me out very badly and it´s slowing my workflow. I´ve got enough technical problems to deal with making these albums. I just want the freedom to make music, but I guess it is what it is. Honestly, I feel like I´ve signed a deal with the devil and I´m just a slave in the system.
I´ve got probably 5 long albums worth of new insanely good material! And there´s no filler material at all! The music is much more refined, much more advanced in arrangement/composition/productionwise. It´s diverse and beautiful, heavy, chaotic and exploring different styles&themes and some new dimensions I feel no band has explored before… The stuff is simply on another level, in a different universe than the debut album and the TIME albums combined. I wrote the TIME albums around 2006 and before, that was a lifetime ago. Think of the stuff I´ve written ever since to this day! And I just keep on writing, I feel like I´m on fire. The music is just flowing out of me. I´m so excited about all this new music and I can´t wait to start recording and sharing it with you… BUT I can´t without a studio, that´s the problem…
Jari
p.s. Should have stayed working in the post office!
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Wow this is really bad :'(
I hope he'll find a way to solve these problems, because he's so passionate about his music and one of the greatest metal musicians ever in my opinion. This just sucks.
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Sounds like he's better off without a label or atleast Nuclear Blast and do crowdfunding instead but then again i'm not sure how big their fan base are and if it's enough. You probably loose some other perks not being with a label as big as Nuclear Blast. It's really sad to hear!
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Hey everyone,
We are aware of Jari’s recent statement on his current situation and business experiences with Nuclear Blast regarding the most anticipated “TIME II” album. We highly appreciate the strong reactions this statement has caused in the metal community as it once more shows how much people care about their fellow metal heads and especially the musicians that go through many hardships to give us what we all enjoy the most: A good blast of METAL
We also have always been metal fans at heart and we still strive for the same goal we have since the formation of Nuclear Blast 27 years ago: To support our artists in the best way possible and to get the music everybody deserves out to our fans worldwide.
This being said the business side of music can often be rough and especially with a project as extensive as the TIME series compromises have to be found to make an album both beautiful and feasible to all parties involved – the musicians, the fans and the label. This process includes many things that should not be discussed in public as debates sometimes get heated and misunderstandings occur, but we take great pride in the relationship with our artists until this day.
So be assured that we all love Wintersun as much as you do – nobody at Nuclear Blast wants to see them gone and we are working together with Jari and his management to find the optimal solution for his concerns.
Stay true,
Nuclear Blast
Nuclear Blast laid out a pretty respectful response to him. I've always liked Nuclear Blast, so I definitely won't be blaming them for one of their artists wanting more than what they can reasonably give.
Some person in the comments at Metalsucks said it best though:
i.e., "They burned through their advance long ago, and it's really not our fault that they can't find a way to record this album cheaply. We also have more than a few reservations about a guy who insists he can't just track a fucking album in a professional studio like every other professional musician is capable of doing, and needs to build his own damn studio instead.
And we're not going to let him start a crowdfunding campaign either, since we fucking own a piece of those crowd funded revenues under the language of our contract. Plus, he'd be able to use that studio to generate income down the road by tracking other bands that we wouldn't necessarily get a piece of. Fuck that." :lol
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Hey everyone,
We are aware of Jari’s recent statement on his current situation and business experiences with Nuclear Blast regarding the most anticipated “TIME II” album. We highly appreciate the strong reactions this statement has caused in the metal community as it once more shows how much people care about their fellow metal heads and especially the musicians that go through many hardships to give us what we all enjoy the most: A good blast of METAL
We also have always been metal fans at heart and we still strive for the same goal we have since the formation of Nuclear Blast 27 years ago: To support our artists in the best way possible and to get the music everybody deserves out to our fans worldwide.
This being said the business side of music can often be rough and especially with a project as extensive as the TIME series compromises have to be found to make an album both beautiful and feasible to all parties involved – the musicians, the fans and the label. This process includes many things that should not be discussed in public as debates sometimes get heated and misunderstandings occur, but we take great pride in the relationship with our artists until this day.
So be assured that we all love Wintersun as much as you do – nobody at Nuclear Blast wants to see them gone and we are working together with Jari and his management to find the optimal solution for his concerns.
Stay true,
Nuclear Blast
Nuclear Blast laid out a pretty respectful response to him. I've always liked Nuclear Blast, so I definitely won't be blaming them for one of their artists wanting more than what they can reasonably give.
Some person in the comments at Metalsucks said it best though:
i.e., "They burned through their advance long ago, and it's really not our fault that they can't find a way to record this album cheaply. We also have more than a few reservations about a guy who insists he can't just track a fucking album in a professional studio like every other professional musician is capable of doing, and needs to build his own damn studio instead.
And we're not going to let him start a crowdfunding campaign either, since we fucking own a piece of those crowd funded revenues under the language of our contract. Plus, he'd be able to use that studio to generate income down the road by tracking other bands that we wouldn't necessarily get a piece of. Fuck that." :lol
:facepalm: Why is it that people always think that the artist owes them something more than what they actually pledge for? If someone wants to start a studio and you pledge for the project, you pledge for the start up process for the studio and not to actually run the studio. If I back an album by an artist, I pledge for the album to be made, I don't get any revenue for the album sales even if the album becomes a hit and the artist becomes a millionare. Stop pledging if you don't like those scenarios!
I'm not saying that Jari should do crowdfunding I just get annoyed by donaters thinking they are shareholders/producers by pledging $10 to a project.
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Yeah me too. I would gladly donate a couple of hundred dollars towards getting Jari a decent studio.
I would not expect anything in return, except more Wintersun albums and a little speedier in the making :metal
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Hey everyone,
We are aware of Jari’s recent statement on his current situation and business experiences with Nuclear Blast regarding the most anticipated “TIME II” album. We highly appreciate the strong reactions this statement has caused in the metal community as it once more shows how much people care about their fellow metal heads and especially the musicians that go through many hardships to give us what we all enjoy the most: A good blast of METAL
We also have always been metal fans at heart and we still strive for the same goal we have since the formation of Nuclear Blast 27 years ago: To support our artists in the best way possible and to get the music everybody deserves out to our fans worldwide.
This being said the business side of music can often be rough and especially with a project as extensive as the TIME series compromises have to be found to make an album both beautiful and feasible to all parties involved – the musicians, the fans and the label. This process includes many things that should not be discussed in public as debates sometimes get heated and misunderstandings occur, but we take great pride in the relationship with our artists until this day.
So be assured that we all love Wintersun as much as you do – nobody at Nuclear Blast wants to see them gone and we are working together with Jari and his management to find the optimal solution for his concerns.
Stay true,
Nuclear Blast
Nuclear Blast laid out a pretty respectful response to him. I've always liked Nuclear Blast, so I definitely won't be blaming them for one of their artists wanting more than what they can reasonably give.
Some person in the comments at Metalsucks said it best though:
i.e., "They burned through their advance long ago, and it's really not our fault that they can't find a way to record this album cheaply. We also have more than a few reservations about a guy who insists he can't just track a fucking album in a professional studio like every other professional musician is capable of doing, and needs to build his own damn studio instead.
And we're not going to let him start a crowdfunding campaign either, since we fucking own a piece of those crowd funded revenues under the language of our contract. Plus, he'd be able to use that studio to generate income down the road by tracking other bands that we wouldn't necessarily get a piece of. Fuck that." :lol
:facepalm: Why is it that people always think that the artist owes them something more than what they actually pledge for? If someone wants to start a studio and you pledge for the project, you pledge for the start up process for the studio and not to actually run the studio. If I back an album by an artist, I pledge for the album to be made, I don't get any revenue for the album sales even if the album becomes a hit and the artist becomes a millionare. Stop pledging if you don't like those scenarios!
I'm not saying that Jari should do crowdfunding I just get annoyed by donaters thinking they are shareholders/producers by pledging $10 to a project.
That's not about donators, that's with Nuclear Blast. I just posted that person's comment because it's pretty much what Nuclear Blast wants to say but has the manners to not fling shit publicly like Jari did.
They gave him an advance that should have covered recording the album. They don't like the idea of crowd funding to make recording an album that they already get a part of the profits possible, when they already gave him the funds to go into a studio to record it.
There are PLENTY of studios around the world, that are all more than what he needs to record this album, he's just unwilling to work with them which ridiculous. He doesn't NEED his own studio to reamp guitars, it's absolutely ridiculous that he's even claiming that and just goes to show how stubbornly immature he's being.
Also maybe Jari should consider not spending like at least $60k on live equipment. Don't get me wrong, it's all nice and stuff, but a lot of it isn't necessary and they could have saved a lot of money making compromises with their gear, and have more than enough to record the album.
https://www.metalsucks.net/2013/07/30/rigged-wintersun/
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Niether you or me know how much or if any, advance NB gave Jari.
Any advance would go on the recording of the album and as Jari has said any money made (from live shows, merchandise) goes back into equipment.
I'm sure there are loads of studio's around thew world, but they wouldn't be cheap. Add to that the cost of flight's, hotel and other expenses.
No he does not need his own studio, he said it would make things a lot easier.
He is hardly immature, just very passionate about music and is clearly frustrated with it all.
He must have thought long and hard before posting his rant, the potential backlash not only from NB but also fans.
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I do have some doubts about Jari's capability of managing his recording/mixing/mastering process to be honest. There are a lot of bands which seem to have less of a following than Wintersun/Jari and they seem to be capable of putting out pretty complex albums that sound good.
I do hope he gets the stuff he needs and will continue to make awesome music/give good live shows. I love his artistical side and the two Wintersun concerts I saw were really awesome.
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That's not about donators, that's with Nuclear Blast. I just posted that person's comment because it's pretty much what Nuclear Blast wants to say but has the manners to not fling shit publicly like Jari did.
They gave him an advance that should have covered recording the album. They don't like the idea of crowd funding to make recording an album that they already get a part of the profits possible, when they already gave him the funds to go into a studio to record it.
There are PLENTY of studios around the world, that are all more than what he needs to record this album, he's just unwilling to work with them which ridiculous. He doesn't NEED his own studio to reamp guitars, it's absolutely ridiculous that he's even claiming that and just goes to show how stubbornly immature he's being.
Also maybe Jari should consider not spending like at least $60k on live equipment. Don't get me wrong, it's all nice and stuff, but a lot of it isn't necessary and they could have saved a lot of money making compromises with their gear, and have more than enough to record the album.
https://www.metalsucks.net/2013/07/30/rigged-wintersun/
but my post was aimed towards backers and pledgers not about Jaris situation or Nuclear Blast and their stance against crowdfunding. I only commented on that guys post and the attitude alot of backers have which I don't like.
Whether you agree or not with Jaris post it was a vent of frustration from his POV. Having fans asking about the album 24/7 can't be an easy thing and I think that led him to do the rant.
If you have a contract with a label they of course will not be happy if you start a crowdfunding campaign. No question about that. Of course NB would never express themself like Jari because they are a company.
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@Gazinwales
We may not know how much they gave him, but that's what record labels fucking do. They give their signed artists an advance to go record their album. He specifically said he was given this loan, that it just wasn't enough, which I find hard to believe. Studios may not be cheap, but you can always find affordable ones that are still quality studios. The fact that he wants to make his own studio to simply reamp guitars when bands on low budgets do this in their own homes to great effect is hilarious. Not only is that an option, but renting out a studio wouldn't cost that much if he simply needs to do simple shit like that. He can still mix back at his apartment and everything perfectly fine, that's what headphones are for.
His rant was childish, makes a ton of accusations that Nuclear Blast are these evil, money mongering monsters who want to see him and Wintersun perish musically, which is fucking hilarious.
And then he goes on to talk about how they could improve their live sound with a studio when they already have like top of the fucking line gear that they use.
I just have a hard time believing that Nuclear Blast is the one in the wrong here, I've never heard any other bands talk shit about them, and most seem to really like the label. I also find it hard to believe they would let one of their more popular bands die and never release music again, they're a business, and they obviously know that you don't let your money makers die.
Here's a comment from somebody on Metalsucks, he doesn't source anything, but it was all pretty public stuff I guess and the guy said he's a huge fan of Wintersun.
Here's the thing man - we know that NB fulfilled obligations to Wintersun. Back in 06, the band tracked all the guitars, bass and drums in a studio. Then Jari said he would program the synths and do vocals and solos in his home studio. Time dragged on (pun intended!) and he didn't deliver. The label fronted him extra advances for a 64 bit PC he publicly said he needed, and he still didn't deliver; this was back in '08 if I remember correctly. Keep in mind that over all these years, the feasibility of making return sales for an album was exponentially decreasing as people stopped buying albums. From a business perspective, NB seemed pretty helpful; it was Jari/Wintersun, that didn't deliver, and NB watched their investment disappear.
I really loved the first Wintersun and greatly anticipated Time, just to make that clear. I really respect Jari as a musician, he seems like a good guy and it's a testament to him that his band and label stuck by him for 8 years. But by his own admission in interviews, he's said he is living on welfare and not working. It isn't NBs obligation to help him out of whatever sad personal issues are going on with him, and that's the sad reality of all this. What he has is probably great as is - I just wish he'd have the confidence to release it.
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Ummm.....no other band on Nuclear Blast or any other metal label seem to have these sorts of issues and churn out albums at a steady pace. I don't get it. Why does he need his own studio, can't he hire a place like everyone else? Isn't it about getting music to the fans?
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Dark Castle is pretty much spot on.
@Mr. Boom - I crowd find a lot of things, and I've never seen the attitude you are talking about. We want what we paid for, and nothing more. I've never seen people extrapolate it to a shareholder situation.
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Also, I just want to clarify that I love Wintersun and their music, I just can't get behind what Jari is saying at all.
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Yeah, I'm pretty much with you Dark Castle.
Also, how did he record the last album then?
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Very
Very
slowly.
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Tracked instruments at a studio, did everything else on a computer Nuclear Blast bought for him after he went on about how he didn't have the proper equipment to mix and do orchestration and vocals at his own place with the computer equipment he had.
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He just sounds like a little bitch. No wonder it took so long for the second album. Screw him, if we never get Time 2, oh well. A shame, cause I loved both albums.
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Dark Castle
Yep you make some valid points that I agree with.
But having just started the long road of my own dream of recording my own music, I can sympathize with Jari.
He is obviously a perfectionist, as I am with all things, so he sets the bar pretty high.
I bet he drives NB crazy and they have obviously invested a lot f time and money in Wintersun.
As a massive Wintersun fan (both albums are the most played in my collection) it's incredibly frustrating with the delays and Jari's excuses.
We've pretty much heard it all, before Time I, it was software, hardware and the rest.
I like many fans though everything was all recorded and Time II only needed mixing and mastering to be finished.
BTW was exactly is reamp the guitars?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-amp
In short, it's where you record a dry run of an instrument(usually have a DI, and then an amp just so the guitarist or instrument player has something to listen back to there), and later go back into the studio, and play the recorded track through various amps and other effects like reverb, etc to bring it to life and test out different sounds.
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Dark Castle is pretty much spot on.
@Mr. Boom - I crowd find a lot of things, and I've never seen the attitude you are talking about. We want what we paid for, and nothing more. I've never seen people extrapolate it to a shareholder situation.
I've seen it though but as you say there are alot that are aware on what they pay for and that's cool. I guess the most vocal are probably a minority which should not come as a surprise.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-amp
In short, it's where you record a dry run of an instrument(usually have a DI, and then an amp just so the guitarist or instrument player has something to listen back to there), and later go back into the studio, and play the recorded track through various amps and other effects like reverb, etc to bring it to life and test out different sounds.
Thanks mate, I would have thought that you can do that at home on computer, I know you can do with Logic Pro X and probably with Pro Tools and all the other various recording software.
Great see some activity on the Wintersun thread.
What's everyone's fave WS song?
Mine is Sons Of Winter and Stars :metal
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Same favorite song as you :P
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Hmm pretty hard. Currently it stands between Battle Against Time and Sons Of Winter And Stars.
BAT because it's just a pure energy pill with epic choirs and tight drumming. I love the overal dry production.
SOWAS because it has everything above but turned up to 11 except the dry production. Epic is just the first name. Another cool factor is that it triggers my love for fantasy and reminds me of GoT.
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Funny read - https://lairofthebastard.blogspot.com/2014/07/jari-maenpaa-his-stupid-fucking-face.html
I just think Jari is trying to use the anticipation of his album to get a couple of extra benefits as well instead of just moving on and dealing with whatever problem is going on at the moment.
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Whatever you might think of Jaris post that was an even bigger rant and just stupid.
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Whatever you might think of Jaris post that was an even bigger rant and just stupid.
I know and that's why I found it funny.
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Whatever you might think of Jaris post that was an even bigger rant and just stupid.
I know and that's why I found it funny.
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Sons of Winter and Stars, for me pretty much sums up Wintersun to a tee.
Fast, slow, heavy yet melodic, and some great growls and some of Jari's finest clean singing.
Picking a song from the first album is tough.
But I would pick Death and Healing, works for me with the clean singing on the album version and the growls on the demo.
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Yea it has everything. Really love his clean voice.
Death and the Healing is a good choice.
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I found a really good multi cam version of The Way Of The Fire.
I didn't want to hear it, but given the news from Jari yesterday, I wouldn't expect to see Time II this year.
I couldn't resist and boy is it an epic and going to sound amazing on the studio version.
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My favourite Wintersun song is by far Winter Madness. The solo, the chorus, the harmonies and lead guitar and, well, every other aspect of the song. My favourite melodic death song in general.
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I remember my friends' and my first collective listen of Time I, when the clean vocals appeared, we were all like HOLY SHIT HAS JARI IMPROVED OR WHAT.
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Yeah Jari's voice has improved a lot since the debut. I wonder if it was a natural progression or did he take sining lessons?
Also the debut has the very unique (in this style/genre of music) sound of a Fender Telecaster on many songs.
Easy to pick which songs and really does enhance the so
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I found a really good multi cam version of The Way Of The Fire.
I didn't want to hear it, but given the news from Jari yesterday, I wouldn't expect to see Time II this year.
I couldn't resist and boy is it an epic and going to sound amazing on the studio version.
Link, please?
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So, Jari wrote (https://www.metalsucks.net/2014/08/07/wintersun-drama/) another novel on facebook, though this is more of a response to that blog post.
If you have a few minutes to kill...
LEARING FEW THINGS ABOUT MY LAST “REALITY UPDATE”
I feel like I need to explain the situation more clearly as some people seem to be a bit confused. So let´s get more into the details…
Let´s get one thing clear first, I don´t live in a fantasy world. You might say I´m a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to album production. Fine, I´ll give you that. But I do make compromises, lots of them. TIME I was all a huge compromise. The melody guitars are all old modelling amps (not the new Axe-FXs and whatnots which sound pretty decent actually). There simply was not enough budget to record them properly in a professional studio, so they sound pretty horrible and are very hard mix and fit in with the rest of the instruments. The vocals were all recorded in various rehearsal places just with my laptop (the reason why it took so long to record them and also because of the hundreds of vocal tracks I needed to record for these albums).
They are certainly not the best quality vocal recordings. Again, another compromise for not having enough budget for a 3rd party professional studio. I also wanted some time to practise my vocals while recording, which I´ve never really done before, but you can hear the improvement. Also I do some of the vocal arrangement work and experiment with different things while recording, this would be impossible in a 3rd party studio. The rhythm guitars were actually recorded in a 3rd party studio, but I didn´t have enough time to craft the sound exactly like I want it. Rhythm guitar is the thing I´m the most perfectionist and passionate about. There´s only a handful of rhythm guitar sounds I like from the millions of heavy metal records out there, so you can imagine how hard it is for me to be able to produce the guitar sound of my dreams in few days in a 3rd party studio. Impossible.
And to fit it in with hundreds of orchestration & synth instruments, to not muddy the bass, to be able to scoop the mids so the whole mix doesn’t sound like a kitchen radio (I don´t like mids in metal guitars plus the orchestra instruments already eat a lot of the mids space), but still keep the upper mids smooth and not harsh, to not mask the drum overheads, but still having enough modern highs and upper mids attack to have it cut through the mix. This is almost a mission impossible, but I know I could do it in my own time in my own studio… So the time ran out from the studio´s “taximeter” and I was left with unsatisfying guitar sound and very hard to fit in the mix (still had to pay the studio bill though).
I was very unhappy about this, but still released the album! The orchestrations were made with just one computer which forced me to use time consuming workarounds and was very stressful. I won´t even get into the technical problems I´ve had to deal with over the years. It took 3 years of sweat and tears to make the orchestrations the way I had to do them. This was the hardest task and it nearly burned me out. Never again this way! I would need a computer farm to do the all the orchestrations in realtime without slow workarounds.
I´ve mixed the albums in my apartment and you ask why it takes so long to mix? Well, because my room is not a professional studio ment for mixing.
There´s also always some noise issues inside and outside the building, I´ve had even some scary hearing problems due to this for having to raise the volume and having to mix too loud. Never again! There´s also insane amount of tracks to mix (which is very difficult), but my computer is having hard a time handling them well. Very unstable and slow. But the main thing why the mixing takes so long is because the recorded sounds are pretty crappy due to lack of resources to record them properly. So it´s very hard to “polish a turd”, if not impossible. Good sounds would mix themselves! And I won´t even get into other health problems I´ve had due to stress which has slowed the mixing process too (not mental problems, although maybe I´m a bit crazy :P).
So again, I simply can´t afford a 3rd party studios to mix in or to record. Not even close. Nuclear Blast gave us just enough budget for only to record the drums, bass and rhythm guitars in 3rd party studio, that´s it. Which all turn out unsatisfying due to lack of time to tweak the sounds right for massive projects like the TIME albums are. That´s why I´ve been struggling with the mixing. All the rest of the instuments, vocals, orchestrations, melody guitars etc… was left up to me to record on my own however possible and getting quality recordings in a “DIY bedroom studio scenario” is not easy. Sure they gave us few additional advances, ´cause we begged them for faster computers and better gear (and all that money has been paid back already), but still not nearly enough for a task like this.
The rest have been basically financed by yours truly with touring, merchandise and just simply sacrificing my own time doing lot of workarounds and recording in rehearsal places or where ever I could due to the lack of funding, but I had to make these albums a reality no matter what! But my point is, as you can see, I do make lots of compromises. TIME I is far from perfect, but still released the album! Would a perfectionist do that?
I certainly can make music renting a 3rd party studio for one month and release an album, as I have already proven that many times in the past. But I won´t do that again, that is my decision. I´ve never been happy with those albums and the results I get from 3rd party studios. Waste of money. There simply isn´t enough time (with our budgets) to craft the sounds the way I want them in unfamiliar space with unfamiliar gear, monitors and under the stress of the “studio taximeter” running. It´s usually just, let´s throw a mic there and wish for the best! “We´ll fix it in the mix… maybe!”.
Making music makes me happy. The feeling you get when you first get a new idea, a riff, a melody, a vision of the song is a great feeling and you just want to make that vision come out from the speakers exactly like you hear it in your head. Releasing music that doesn’t represent that vision and is compromised makes me unhappy. Why continue to do something that makes you unhappy? Those past albums were like demos to me and nothing like the TIME albums or the future material are in their complexity. I just want to get the production right for these albums! I know some people don’t care about the production quality that much, but I do. I wouldn´t be able to ever do these albums in 30, 60 or 90 days in a 3rd party studio “like all the other bands do it”.
Sorry, but I´m just not that skilled of a human being! I would need to rent a 3rd party studio for a year or two or even three years depending on the project and live there 24/7. But obviously who can afford that? You could invest and build your own studio with that money and make many albums until you die. The main thing that people need to understand is that the TIME albums and my future material are so much more complex to make than my previous albums were and I just can´t continue to do them like I´ve been forced to do them for the past 10 years. I think we´ve all established by now that this isn´t working. You have to also remember, I do these albums basically alone. Produce, record, engineer, sing, play, mix, master, write all the music & lyrics… Who else does that? Anyone in Finland? Anyone in the world? Well maybe Devin Townsend, but he´s fucking Devin Townsend! I´m just nobody from Konala, Helsinki.
During these years I´ve been already acquiring studio gear and started doing most of the stuff myself and I love it! I´ve gotta pretty good DAW and monitor setup, so basically I got most of the studio gear already. But there´s still one major thing that is missing and that is the studio space. A place to work without interruptions, where I can crank up guitar amps 24/7, 365 days a year without the neighbors calling the cops, to record and practise my singing everyday, to record drums and so on… Having everything always set up ready to record and to mix night or day in a good mixing room would speed up the whole process immensely. It would be also great for the whole band, ´cause we´d have our own rehearsal room for the first time, sort of “Wintersun headquarters”.
This would really free us to make albums much faster with better quality and able us to tour more often, which then would open the possibilities financially to other things like upgrading our live shows, doing ten minute music videos for our long songs, a live DVD maybe even with a real orchestra…
It is a fact that without Nuclear Blast I couldn´t have gotten where I am today and I’m certainly grateful of that, but they have really made the most money of Wintersun. What have I made? Well I´ve gotten some better equipments to do my job which is nice, but I´m still struggling and I´m missing the main pieze of the puzzle, the actual “work place”, which is a huge roadblock to continue forwards. I´m in a dead end. All my money has always gone straight to the album productions. I don´t go on vacations, I don´t have a car or anything fancy, which I´m totally fine with! I work and do these albums basically for free and that would be actually fine with me, if I could do my work at least in good conditions. I´ve been struggling and I´ve sacrificed everything for over 10 years and gotten pretty much nothing out of it, except the love and support of the fans, which I appreciate very much!
But to continue to make more albums, I need my own studio. I´ve had enough making albums in rehearsal places and in a bedroom studios, it just doesn´t work. Enough is enough. I´ve reached the breaking point. I don´t owe Nuclear Blast or anyone anything. I don´t have to make or release albums. I don´t have to release TIME II, if I´m not happy with it. I can make music (demos) just for myself for fun and just show them to my closest friends. Or I can do something else, for example teaching like Kai and Teemu… doing anything else I would actually earn some money. I will continue to always make music like I did before any record deals, but whether I will release the music depends totally whether I can record and mix it properly.
I´ve made piece with myself that if I won´t be able to ever release another album again and I have to take my songs to the grave, that is ok with me, but I do not wish it. Nuclear Blast and everyone around me has made profits of Wintersun and all my debts are paid. So no harm done. Where to go from here? The future is unknow.
I must point out that our manager is a really good guy. Always has our best interest at heart, he actually gave me a big personal loan to finish TIME I. I couldn´t have done it without him! He actually renegotiated a better Nuclear Blast deal for me after the TIME I release. I´m actually ok with the new deal. Except for the fact that I can´t make albums, because they won´t fund them enough for me to actually be able to make them and at the same time they are denying me doing a Wintersun crowd funding which probably would finance the studio. So they are really holding us hostage.
Our manager actually renounced himself from the crowd funding and won´t have any part in it unless I want his help. He wants to see Wintersun succeed. The problem is still the same though, without enough funding there won´t be Wintersun albums. And I´m pretty sure I would not be able to gather enough finances on my own with just “Jari Mäenpää´s studio crowd funding” without any meaningful perk like TIME II high quality album download for example. It would have to be a big Wintersun campaign with a team of people helping me to realise this dream. But I will try to figure something out, I´m not giving up!
TIME II is now in a good place mixwise. I´m pretty happy with the drums, bass & the orchestrations. The whole thing is sounding so much more powerful and clear than TIME I. Really proud of what I´ve been able to achieve with these “not so perfect” recordings and with the intense orchestra layers. It´s so difficult to mix stuff like this, especially with my mixing conditions. But I won´t ruin the hard work I´ve done so far by throwing a crappy guitar sound on top ruining the whole mix. That´s one compromise I won´t make anymore. And I won´t be spending anymore money for 3rd party studios either. I will save and invest every penny for my own studio. Actually for those who complained not hearing the guitars enough on TIME I, the guitars were left purposely little bit back in the mix, because they were so crappy.
Or those who critized the production otherwise, now you know the reason why it wasn´t top notch quality. No money = demo quality. And for those who doubted me having written already 5 albums worth of new material, I´ve written actually more. That was just a conservative estimate. Bottom line, if people want me to make music and release Wintersun albums, I need enough funding for my personal studio where I can craft my music, record and produce my sounds in piece. It is as simple as that. I can´t make this complex music any other way anymore. I am just one man with limited resources and limited skills. I can´t magically pull albums from thin air. Maybe other bands can do their albums “the usual way” renting a 3rd party studio for one month and are happy with the results, I certainly respect that! I´ve been there, done that.
I know that many metal bands have all got their own hardships and I am not certainly underrating anyone´s situation. But every situation is unique and mine certainly is. I´ve seen some comments saying that “You don´t deserve your own studio, because other bands don´t get to have their own studio either and you should just do your music like everyone else does it!”. Would it be somehow bad for the other bands if I would build my own studio? Would it somehow hurt the other bands, if I could make more Wintersun albums in my own way? Or are these comments just based on jealousy or something? “What makes you so special to get your own studio?”
Nothing and maybe I don´t deserve it, but that is for the fans & financiers to decide and I know there´s lots of dedicated fans that want to support us! It really isn´t about who deserves what. I´m just saying what I can and can´t do. I have my own way of doing things. Sorry, if my previous update sounded like whining or somehow entitled for some of you, it wasn’t ment to be. I am just trying to illustrate the difficult situation I´m in. I definitely understand the realities of life.
The crowd funding was actually suggested and brought to my attention by the fans. In fact people have been wanting donate to us since the debut album, but we don’t feel very good about it. We always would like to give something back. That’s why we make merchandise for example. I admit that I´m a little bit frustrated with the situation, but I´m fine with whatever outcome. But if someone finds it offensive that I´m looking for funding for my studio project and for the Wintersun albums, then they got some personal problems. Most of the comments have been really encouraging, supportive and positive though and I appreciate that!
Currently I´m negotiating with Nuclear Blast and our manager how we could make this work for all parties… We´ll see if we can work this out.
I certainly hope that we´ll find a solution, so we can release more Wintersun albums and share them with the world. It is my dream and passion to make music and it makes me happy to see that so many people care about Wintersun. I´m very grateful!!! All your supportive posts have given me lot of hope and I´m certainly not quitting the fight!
Thank you and thanks for listening!
Jari
p.s. Everyone enjoying their popcorn?
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Jesus christ this guy. Your situation isn't unique at all, it's your shitty attitude that's unique. The fact that you refuse to use 3rd party studios because you have to spend a shit load of time crafting the "perfect guitar tone" which won't happen, because you'll never find something you deem perfect is entirely your own fucking fault, not that you don't have enough support.
"I can't magically pull albums out of thin air"
Nobody is asking you to do this, it's just expected that you actually release music, and not go on some personal quest for perfection that you'll never be able to finish.
As far as being able to mix whenever he wants, my friend records and mixes in his apartment, we record and mix in ours, sometimes with headphones, but a lot of times with our monitors, and it's not like the walls are thick either, and we never gets complaints and do some pretty rad mixes. If he has the gear like he says he does, he could EASILY be doing all of this stuff right now. He does not need a warehouse in some unpopulated or lived in spot to do this shit. He could easily treat his room for not too much to cut down the noise that goes around, he could do so many things right now if like he says he has everything but his "space".
I have zero sympathy for this guy. It's too bad if we never get more Wintersun music, but what a fucking tool, just a bunch of excuses for his quest for the most perfect sound in all of metal, which he will never find if he can't find a decent sound he likes in the span of a few days. Dude is just the pickiest person in metal.
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My god the rant is high in this one! :lol
I'm not mad at him for venting his feelings even if I don't agree with him, I simply don't care because I feel there's alot more than what's being said here that's not right.
I just hope to hear another Wintersun album in the coming years.
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DC, your sig pic is so perfect for Jari :lol
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Jesus christ this guy. Your situation isn't unique at all, it's your shitty attitude that's unique. The fact that you refuse to use 3rd party studios because you have to spend a shit load of time crafting the "perfect guitar tone" which won't happen, because you'll never find something you deem perfect is entirely your own fucking fault, not that you don't have enough support.
"I can't magically pull albums out of thin air"
Nobody is asking you to do this, it's just expected that you actually release music, and not go on some personal quest for perfection that you'll never be able to finish.
As far as being able to mix whenever he wants, my friend records and mixes in his apartment, we record and mix in ours, sometimes with headphones, but a lot of times with our monitors, and it's not like the walls are thick either, and we never gets complaints and do some pretty rad mixes. If he has the gear like he says he does, he could EASILY be doing all of this stuff right now. He does not need a warehouse in some unpopulated or lived in spot to do this shit. He could easily treat his room for not too much to cut down the noise that goes around, he could do so many things right now if like he says he has everything but his "space".
I have zero sympathy for this guy. It's too bad if we never get more Wintersun music, but what a fucking tool, just a bunch of excuses for his quest for the most perfect sound in all of metal, which he will never find if he can't find a decent sound he likes in the span of a few days. Dude is just the pickiest person in metal.
So you being a rank amateur musician and nowhere near the level of Jari, can generalise that because you and a friend can get 'rad' mixes at you place, then it should be a breeze for Jari?
Of course Jari's circumstances are unique, do you know how big his place is, how thick the walls are, does he had sensitive neighbours, are their strict laws about loud music?
Does he live near a busy road, underneath a flight path, or a noisy business?
I could go on and on, but you get the point?
You seem to have all the answers, but all you really are is very negative and tell us how easy it really is.
Anyone who records at home and records any kind of music, knows it isn't easy.
I'm finding that out first hand, I've spent many weeks searching for the right guitar sound and still haven't found it.
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I'm literally at school for being a music engineer, and I already have my associates degree in it. I know what it takes to get a good mix. It is really not that fucking hard if you know what you're doing. I'm not actually a musician, just a vocalist actually! and we record stuff for fun. Our apartment has thin walls, but if you do this stuff at the right time of the day, it won't matter if your walls are thin. I live near a 2 VERY busy roads with constant traffic, and it doesn't get picked up, we have some pretty nice gear/equipment/plugins/etc, and we know very well what the fuck we're doing. And my friend who records at his place used to have his own studio and recorded bands on the reg, he's just here to get his degree and make it more than just experience to put on his resume, so he also knows what he's doing, very much so, we recorded a song with FANTASTIC quality a couple of weeks ago, song sounds absolutely great, and it was recorded in a very populated apartment complex with planes that pass by on the half hour. Jari's circumstances aren't unique whatsoever. Tons of bands are in his exact position, and still manage to put out great sounding albums in extremely similar scenarios.
It's not hard to get around outside noise, it really isn't.
Doesn't take being a musician to know what sounds good btw. And you most certainly don't need some secluded, non populated place to fucking re amp guitars.
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On the other hand though don't forget that he produced two imo awesome sounding Wintersun albums. I don't care how long an album takes or what length they took to get there as long as the end result sounds good. Everyone works at diffrent tempo and have diffrent criteras that's just how it is.
Just because you think it's easy to find a good sound dosen't mean that someone else have the same preference as you. Maybe they take longer because they have a certain sound in their head that they're after and won't be satisfied until they find it. I've heard of crazier things.
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Jari might need to scale back his expectations of what he can get versus what he can use to get it. And maybe get a little less overambitious. For a song that he claims has over 1600 tracks involved, Sons of Winter And Stars doesn't really sound like that.
And while I personally think that Jari's got a touch of Tom Scholz disease, just because you think you and your friend make rad mixes doesn't necessarily make them professional level recordings, DC. That and I have to say if you'd gone into DT side and said what you did about a member of DT, a mod would've landed on you with both feet. I mean if your rant wasn't a personal attack on the dude, I don't know what is. Lighten up, man. :lol
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Saying I make rad mixes =/= professional level recordings. All I was saying was that we can put out pretty damn good mixes of stuff we record for fun with the gear we have(which is good, but probably not professional level). If Jari actually does have all of this extremely expensive professional recording/mixing gear(I only get to play with the sexy gear at school :'( ), he could most definitely be doing what needs to be done for the next Wintersun album. I don't really get how my rant(which it definitely was) comes out to be a personal attack. He's a dude with unrealistic standards, who went on a mother load of a rant on the very label that has always supported him, and even given him more money to finish previous albums, and now when they won't dish out anymore, they're suddenly monsters who want to see his artistic vision die. It's a terrible fucking attitude and I think it'd be pretty hard to say otherwise. And as far as the crowd funding goes, the reason he claims he's not allowed to do that is because incentives for funding his studio would probably be a copy of Time II if you helped fund the studio, which NB would HAVE to take a cut of, seeing as they legally get a part of the profits from that, and Jari doesn't like that, thinks it's unfair when in reality, it's absolutely what should happen.
Not to mention the fact that he needs an entire year(actually he said it could easily take up to three lol) just to record the album as he said if he could get his own studio blatantly shows how bad with time management he is and kind of paints a picture of his ridiculous quest for perfection in guitar tones, not to mention other instrumentation. It's understandable if you work a little slower than some bands, like Red Fang who can go into the studio, and bang out their record in swift time, but taking a year or up to three years as he even said just to find "TEH PERFECK" guitar tone and record instruments is just mind blowing. They sounded great I thought on the last two albums, the first album of which was recorded in a third party studio, but he's pretty much said they were shit guitar tones that he HAD to put on the record. Jari just sounds like somebody who will never ever ever be happy with what he has, because in his mind it can always be better, and that honestly just makes him out to be the destroying his own artistic vision, because it's never something he'll be happy with.
It is a fact that without Nuclear Blast I couldn´t have gotten where I am today and I’m certainly grateful of that, but they have really made the most money of Wintersun. What have I made? Well I´ve gotten some better equipments to do my job which is nice, but I´m still struggling and I´m missing the main pieze of the puzzle, the actual “work place”, which is a huge roadblock to continue forwards.
This also really ticks me off. Of course Nuclear Blast made the most money out of Wintersun, YOU signed to their label, and they gave you loans to record, mix, master your album, which you have to repay through album sales, and they've bought equipment for you as well. So if you're struggling, maybe you shouldn't have gone out and bought all top of the line gear for live performing and studio equipment, and he's still not completely satisfied with their live sound lol. Maybe it would have been a better idea to take some compromises on gear you didn't really need at the moment and put it towards renting a space to record and mix in if you so desperately need a place. Or you could have sprung money towards cheap yet effective ways to treat the space you do have.
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. Jari just sounds like somebody who will never ever ever be happy with what he has, because in his mind it can always be better, and that honestly just makes him out to be the destroying his own artistic vision, because it's never something he'll be happy with.
That sounds like pretty much every musician I know, atleast those who do it professionally including myself. :lol You always wanna do just one more take.
Btw DC it almost sounds like you take it personally. :lol Just chill.
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:rollin
How am I taking it personally? I am not irate, my post isn't a bunch of baseless attacks on Jari, I'm just calling him out on his load of bullshit.(Not that he'll ever read any of this). Aside from some colorful language, which is normal for me, I don't see anywhere me getting to the point that I need to chill. I have thoughts on the matter, and they happen to translate themselves into lengthy posts, because as soon as I'm done typing up one paragraph, another paragraph of points hits my mind.
The difference between other musicians and Jari though is that they have a sense of time management and have realistic expectations. They know that there's only so many takes you can do. They know you can't make something perfect. There will always be a small flaw somewhere at least, and it's okay, it's what can give music it's character. Most also know that unless you're at a certain level, you have to be realistic with how much time you've got to work with something. Jari isn't Tool, Metallica, or a band of similar nature, they can afford to take all this time to make new records, Jari can not, and shouldn't expect to have the time to, while doing nothing to make it financially possible.
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Two things that Jari said are certainly true to my ears.
Time I, is one of my favorite albums of all time, if not my all time fave.
The songs, arrangements and production are amazing.
The mix however, as Jari said not the best and sounds second rate.
All those amazing sounds are mostly buried. But the guitars sound really bad and way too low in the mix and now we know the reason why.
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I've never had an issue with the production on Time I. I actually really like the way it sounds.
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Production, as I said i great, the mix isn't up to the same standand.
The not so 'busy' parts are okay, but when everything kicks in, a lot of the sounds become a blur.
I can only imagine how good a new Jari mix in his own studio would sound and a 5.1 version would be amazing.
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The fact that we can't comment or criticize someone we're talking about is pretty lame you guys because at least DC is backing up what he is saying by giving examples. Also he's not the only one that feels that way since I see many other people in other places saying the same thing so its not something personal. Its just a matter or understanding what your situation is and dealing with it. Jari can't expect Nuclear Blast to make him a special exception of all the artists they have under contract and give him these extra benefits he is asking for which NB had no obligation of doing since that's not what they originally signed on.
Jari needs to learn how to make some sacrifices because if he doesn't release Time II, he can kiss Wintersun goodbye and he will be stuck in a deeper hole than before with all the equipment he has that he can't use to its full potential and without a job.
If every small name band without a studio to record in or any place to work on their material was like this, than we all would be bitching and whining about countless of others. Jari shouldn't get a free pass on this as of right now.
Just my two cents.
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Who says you can't comment or critize? Your free to say whatever you want. Some may not agree with you though and they are equally right to comment and critize your opinion.
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Yeah but I was touching on the topic of talking about certain other people in other sections of the site which could get you kicked.
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DC is a she, not a he.
Yes she can give examples, but I'll say it again, her circumstances, surroundings etc are not the same as Jari's.
For someone to come here and say that they know better and can do better than Jari, who is a professional musician, with a proven track record, is ridiculous to say the least.
I have a lot of sympathy for Jari, I am 44 and try to my best in everything in life, my ex wife called me a perfectionist.
The only difference is that I know I can't be perfect at everything.
Maybe Jari thinks he can and good luck to him.
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When the fuck did I ever say I can do better? I said I can do rad mixes with my circumstances which are similar, so he should be able to do what he needs to do, (which his mixes sound FAWKIN radical if not a little too busy what with all the friction layers, but great nonetheless)
Ps, using he is totally fine for me right, I still got a ways to go before I'm a mild sweater wearing gal
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Sounds like Jari is how I am with art. Nothing is ever perfect to me, and I'm always trying to actively seek ways to improve my stuff, even if people are giving me really positive feedback. Everyone says that Wintersun's stuff sounds great, but Jari just wants to take it to the next level-- and I can't shame him for that. Yes, his standards are a bit unrealistic, but if the man thinks that he can produce a better record with his own personal studio, then I'm sure he can. Many bands certainly create fantastic sounding records in 3rd party studios, but perhaps Jari feels restricted or doesn't enjoy the atmosphere. In that sense, I can understand him wanting his own studio and his own personal space to create the perfect sounding mixes he longs for. Despite that, placing blame on Nuclear Blast isn't that great of a way to go about it, though, although it doesn't sound like he's blaming them entirely.
I like the guy, though, and I love his music, so seeing him rant about the painful situations he seems to be in is tough. His ranting nature sounds more like complaining in several cases, but I can definitely understand his perspective when it comes to artistic license and wanting something to be the best it can be. It sounds like he is actively trying to work towards a solution, though, with the negotiations and whatnot, so I'm hopeful nonetheless. Time I was awesome, though not quite as enjoyable as the debut, but I'm sure TIME II will be amazing--especially if the amount of care and crafting that Jari claims goes into his work is tangible. Jari is a fantastic musician, so hopefully his problems can be resolved and we'll continue to get Wintersun music.
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I'm not saying he's totally wrong or he has no reasons to complain since I don't know how it really is for him right now. But certain things he wants are just far away from happening so he just has to work towards those goals and that way would be releasing Time II or something else that would help him money wise because it sure as hell won't happen in the next couple of months.
Also I apologize for using he. Habit of calling everybody a he in the interwebz.
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Seems as though someone else is getting anxious about Time 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl79I9FO16M
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Now THIS is my thread.
First of all, I'm a huge Wintersun and Jari Mäenpää fan. The first WS album blew and still blows my mind to little pieces. I just love the blend of metal genres on that record, not to speak of the unbelievable atmosphere and ridiculously tasty guitar work laid all over the album. Jari Mäenpää has, to my mind, a superior sense of melody and elegancy in his compositions. In short, the self titled album is my favorite piece of music of all time.
Speaking of time (hehe)... Like many people I waited many years for Time I and the expectations were basically as high as they could have been. I took in all the hype. I was looking forward to a messiah record. Surely Jari would deliver after all these years right? Well, yes. And no. Yes in the sense that Time I has a song that I consider to be the strongest 13 minutes of music in the world. Sons of Winter and Stars. Oh boy, what a song! From the oriental melodies in the beginning, continuing with the explosion of blast beat fury and the power of hundreds of highly intricate orchestral tracks, through the riff-filled portion in the middle, drfiting thorugh a calmly epic and beautiful section before bursting out into THE CHORUS at the end, this song is pure perfection in my eyes. But the problem is, it's only one song. The rest of Time I, while being absolutely fine and still better than most music in my opinion, can't compete with SOWAS at all and fail to live up to my expectations. Not to mention that Time I is basically just three songs and two intros. After 8 years, it's too little.
Another problem the album has is indeed the mix/production. I feel the album has so much more potential. It might be impossible to make all the 400 tracks playing at the same time audible, but if the record was a bit more punchy and raw at some points it would be much better in my opinion. Jari is such an amazing player that it's really a shame the guitars are so drowned in the final mix (this issue was of course addressed and explained by Jari in his recent Facebook post). In the bonus DVD of Time I there is a live at the studio rehearsals and the songs sound much much better with the guitars and drums louder.
Now to the recent events. I'm really glad Jari explained these issues he's having rather than just being quiet and leave the fans guessing what's going on. I say this knowing that he's really made many people loathe him with these posts. To some, he seems like a whiny bitch living in a fantasy world, wishing for other people to do all the hard work for him. But I think he is not really like that at all. He's merely a dreamer, a skilled dreamer at that, who wishes to make his music sound as good as it can. He said he won't release material anymore if it doesn't represent his vision 100% (not like Time I which had its sound problems) and if he won't be able to release albums like that it's okay with him. Like he says, he'll just keep writing for his own joy then. And who can blame him? I mean, I'm dying for new Wintersun music but it's not my business to decide about it. It's Jari's business. It his music and his alone. Again, like the man himself says, he doesn't owe the record label or anyone anything, all his debts are paid. Now there is this crazy idea of an own studio for him, and I don't blame him for chasing that idea. It's the fans who have been suggesting the crowd funding to him for years, but he's been hesitant about it. Now I guess he's starting to... well, give in. I really hope he can work something out with Nuclear Blast so this could happen. If a Wintersun/Jari Mäenpää crowd funding is ever going to happen, he'll be sure to have my contribution.
Here is what I think Jari SHOULD do (but won't). He should reamp the guitars for Time II at his home, mix the record and let it go in 2014 or early 2015. That way he could get the wheels rolling again, get on the road with the band and maybe even earn some money. The whole Time episode would be dealt with. After that I think would be proper time to think about the studio crowd funding thing and time for Jari to concentrate fully on his new material that he is so excited about. Strive for perfection on those future albums, but for Pete's sake finish the Time album!
You guys know The Way of The Fire, right? The song from Time II that they've been playing live since 2011. It's funny that I'm pretty sure I've listened to all of the crappy cell phone recordings of that song more than the actual Time I album. TWOTF sounds AMAZING and I can't wait to hear it properly. Time II, if it ever gets released, will probably be better than the first part. There are some songs that were really hyped up back in 2007 or so. Storm, a supposedly fast song which Kai Hahto (the drummer of WS) described as the most beautiful, epic, technical, chaotic thing he's ever heard. Then there is Silver Leaves, a slow and mellow song which Jari himself regards as his best piece ever. So I'm waiting.
If you haven't seen it there is a really intersting project demonstartion for Sons of Winter and Stars on the Time I bonus DVD and Youtube as well. In the video Jari shows all the 1682 (well not all of them ;D) tracks the song has and it really opens up the listening experience quite a bit. Check it out!
And now I think I've just declared myself as the number one Wintersun fan of DTF! ;D :yarr
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He does owe NB at least 1 album, that being Time II.
I'm sure that they will reach a compromise, as they did when Jari agreed to split the album.
The Way Of The Fire, does sound great, there's some pretty decent recordings around, including a 3 cam on YT.
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He does owe NB at least 1 album, that being Time II.
I'm sure that they will reach a compromise, as they did when Jari agreed to split the album.
The Way Of The Fire, does sound great, there's some pretty decent recordings around, including a 3 cam on YT.
Yea I think I've seen every single TWOTF video on Youtube... :D Some of them are surprisingly good. My favorite is the one from Mexico.
Well I don't know but Jari states in his most recent post that he doesn't owe anyone anything and all his debts (advances to make albums) are paid. Maybe his contract with NB was two albums and that is now fulfilled? Or I might be wrong.
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Well if NB are the stumbling block with crowd funding then he obviously does owe them an album.
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Things are progressing slowly....
"Crowd funding plan is done with over 30 perks with all sorts of goodies and special deals including stem mixes of TIME II & I and even whole Cubase projects of finished projects (of all songs). Who´s interested? All magician´s secrets revealed! Won´t be cheap though. Feeling very positive about this plan. Plan presented to Nuclear Blast, but so far I´ve gotten lots of "no" answers and slow email returns. They´re driving me insane! Independently this would be done already." - Jari on Facebook.
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According to Jari's post on Facebook, some news are going to be announced next week. I'm excited!
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Me too, hope it's positive and good news.
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So this is what we're getting!
TOMORROW
We are going to do a very important survey tomorrow 02:00PM (Finnish time, no pun intended) to estimate our crowd funding goal. We are trying to estimate what approximately would be possible and whether we could reach our goal and make this dream of building a studio happen! We need all our fans' and friends' attention tomorrow, so please stay tuned for our update! Thanks!
- Wintersun boys
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I will give him literally all of my money.
minus the literally part...
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50 cents I'll give as a down payment.
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It's on!!
WINTERSUN STUDIO & TIME II CROWD FUNDING SURVEY (Please read first before liking!)
Good news guys! We have reached an agreement with Nuclear Blast. We gotta give them big props for coming through for us! But first, we need to do a little survey to estimate if we could actually reach our crowd funding goal (which is pretty damn high) before we rush into it. We need to estimate carefully our goal, what is possible and what is not before we can move forward with our plans. This is sort of a test run, but this will hopefully determine approximately how much support we would have. We also want to be clear that the crowd funding is not a charity, we are not asking for donations or anything for free. You would totally get your monies worth!
So we would like to know... If we did this crowd funding project, how many of you guys would be willing to pre-order a TIME II High Quality download package? Stem mixes and many other killer goodies would be included in the perk. All details will be revealed later, but this package would be huge, something never done before! Here´s a little taster what the package would include:
TIME II
- High quality full album download (wav 24bit, 44.1kHz), exactly the way the album was recorded, mixed and mastered
- Includes all tracks (Fields of Snow, The Way of the Fire, One with the Shadows, Ominous Clouds, Storm, Silver Leaves)
- Beautiful PDF extended digital booklet with all crowd funding backer names included (optional)
TIME II Stems
- Separated mix tracks for all Drums, Bass, Rhythm Guitars, Melody Guitars & Solos, Vocals, Orchestrations of all songs
- Make your own mix, adjust the levels for your own liking, listen all the main instruments separately, discover and learn all the secrets inside the mix layers
But that´s just for starters, this package would include many other items and surprises. We feel very confident about this and trust that you all would go crazy about it! And this package is just the first perk on the list. But this would be our main focus for the campaign.
The price would be very affordable and with the guarantee that 100% of the raised money would go for the funding of our studio and Wintersun´s album productions. This would be your chance of a lifetime to support us directly and get an insane TIME II package for your money at the same time (pun intended!). So win-win! All we want you to do for now is...
Please LIKE this post if you would buy and support us.
Please DO NOT click the LIKE if you would not buy.
AND PLEASE SHARE THIS POST TO EVERYONE!!! Because it's important that all our potential supporters see this post and we get some idea whether there's a chance to reach our goal.
Thanks!
- Wintersun boys
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That seems like too much for just the first reward on the list. Usually bands have just the simple pre-order first to get as many backers as possible, and then packages with all the extras costing more for those willing to put down for all that. With all of that in the first package, it's going to be starting off with something fairly expensive...and I think that could severely hurt the number of backers and amount of money they could crowdfund. Instead of having all the pre-order backers and the guys putting down for all the extras together, they're only going to get the guys willing to shell out for the extras. :\
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To which Wintersun replied:
The fact of the matter is, if we would include CDs in the campaign. We would never reach our goal and TIME II wouldn´t see the light of day in that case. This is unfortunate, but it is a fact. We make very little with CDs and we don´t have the resources to handle them with large amounts anyways. We can of course hire someone to do it, but then again we would make even less. NB makes the most profit with CDs and they have the proper resources to ship and sell them. Plus the CDs in the campaign would eat the sales of the digital download package and then we would never reach our goal. So not good for anyone. But we´re confident that when you see the whole download package, you will change your mind!
Just because other bands do this does not mean all bands have to do it.
I'm pretty sure that NB stood firm and stipulated that CD's must not be part of any campaign.
I'm sure there will be lots of other goodies to tempt the fans and the stems are massive for me already.
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They could still let people pre-order a digital download of just the album without extras. ::) My point is, by having a pack with all these extras as the first (I.E. the lowest priced reward) it excludes a lot of people from contributing, the people who don't want stuff like stems, and less people contributing means less money.
And before you make the argument "even if less people contribute this package costs more so it evens out" no it does not, because they could have both at the same time. I know that they don't have to do exactly what other bands do just because that's what other bands do, but there's a very logical reason as to why this is a bad plan - the goal is to make money, and in its current state, it is not designed to make as much money as possible.
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Points taken and here's my reply :)
Time II is not complete yet and thus no release date, but Jari did mention 'high quality digital download'.
I guess Wintersun and NB know what they are doing, so it's wait and see.
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Kai Hahto head cam:
https://youtu.be/ld7ETAhvI0c
You can hear him grunt and sing along. :lol
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When I announced last week that "it is done", I did not mean that IT is done. I meant that IT is done! :D
But seriously, after almost two years of insane amount of work (not to mention a lifetime of practicing and developing music composing, lyric writing, playing, singing, production and engineering skills etc.), something big and amazing that will blow your mind has finally been completely finished, 100%! We thought (and I'm sure you did too) that this day would never come, but it's finally here. I feel I did the impossible! Feeling very proud and happy!
The question now though is, will it ever be released? Well it will be sooner or later, but that is yet to be determined. I have sent a long email to Nuclear Blast and we are now in negotiations with them. That's all I can tell you right now. Keep your fingers crossed!
:lol Well that quickly went from hype to reality!
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Time 1 was fantastic, would love for the sequel to see the light of day. Come on Nuclear Blast.
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I doubt if it's just NB.
I suspect this long email might have some demands/requests.
Besides why would NB not want to release it?
Two albums in 12 years is not a good return, I am sure NB would love to cash in with it, with deluxe box sets, half a dozen different coloured vinyls etc etc.
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I thought this day would never come... The debut is one of my all time favorite albums, and Time I is pretty solid as well.
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Very productive phone meeting with Nuclear Blast just now. Everything might still work after all... Still need to confirm the details "on paper".
:rollin
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That's great news. I'm looking forward to Time II, released 2023.
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Woah, kinda unexpected news on Facebook today given I thought this was likely dead, but the trailer for Time II has arrived!
https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?t=42
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They're really exploring the boundaries of metal with this one.
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I like how unwilling they are to rest on their laurels. Almost everybody would love Time II to be more songs in the vein of s/t or Time I, but I'll give mad props to Wintersun for not being afraid to explore new directions and to develop their music into unexpected directions.
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AOTY 2017.
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Jari posted this week that he will no longer be playing guitar onstage, so he can concentrate totally on his singing.
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Woah, kinda unexpected news on Facebook today given I thought this was likely dead, but the trailer for Time II has arrived!
https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?t=42
Why did you do this to us?
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Funsies? Sorry. :lol
I saw someone somewhere say something about Wintersun, and then watched the last South Park episode featuring that video, and I realized I had never actually done that.
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You got me good.
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I just thought, let's see how long we can milk this. :lol
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Jari posted this week that he will no longer be playing guitar onstage, so he can concentrate totally on his singing.
Heh, I thought you were trolling too, but upon checking their fb, this is actually true.
Hmmm, not sure what to expect from this. No guitar means Jari has to be a different type of frontman, it will be interesting to see how he will act on stage now (I have seen them live twice, they were fantastic).
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(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15697603_1146703805443686_1180094779584941010_n.jpg?oh=89f98eea180e883e292686750d119a5d&oe=58D89758)
::)
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Don't believe it til I have it in my hands.
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WHAT IS "IT"
It's 2017 folks and it's going to be a great year! Time for some big Wintersun news? Yes it is!
When we said that "IT IS DONE", we did not mean TIME II, but we meant a NEW ALBUM for sure! TIME II won´t be the next Wintersun album, because of reasons you already know from past updates and interviews.
So what is IT? IT is a NEW ALBUM and it is 100% done! And no, that's not the name of the album. This album will be something new and different, but equally great or perhaps even better in some ways. Over 53 minutes of solid Wintersun material (with no intro tracks) and with a killer concept!
This album will be THE 3rd FULL LENGHT Wintersun album. We will release the name of it soon and other details like track list etc. We're gonna start putting the pieces of the puzzle together for you guys how it's going to be released and what will happen... It will be a whole new experience to enjoy a Wintersun album! It will all make sense to you very soon!
And this album is not the only thing we've done, not by a long shot! In fact your minds will be blown soon! That is a guarantee. So click the notifications ON in our Wintersun Page, if you don't want to miss out on the new Wintersun album! (Because of Facebook algorithm reach limit). THANKS GUYS!
- Wintersun
FINALLY some solid news!
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Sounds good.
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That sounds good indeed. And I think it is a good idea to ditch Time II for the time being, because that album as a whole has become an old internet meme at this point. A fresh new start, hopefully one up to par, is the route to go.
This means there is still no Way of the Fire studio version though :lol I think they have been playing that track live for almost a decade by now.
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I think it's a smart move to do something completly diffrent, that will ease the hype for Time II whenever that's ready, if ever. That album is a running joke/meme at this point so leave it and start over.
Edit: you basically Ninja:d me ErHaO :lol
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We have a track list now.
WINTERSUN'S 3RD FULL LENGTH ALBUM TRACKLIST
Wintersun - The Forest Seasons
1. Awaken From The Dark Slumber (Spring) 14:40
Part I The Dark Slumber
Part II The Awakening
2. The Forest That Weeps (Summer) 12:18
3. Eternal Darkness (Autumn) 14:08
Part I Haunting Darkness
Part II The Call of the Dark Dream
Part III Beyond the Infinite Universe
Part IV Death
4. Loneliness (Winter) 12:54
Total running time: 53:20
I thought that the album title was weird when it was revealed last week, but it makes sense now.
We should get release information next week. Really excited for this one.
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Funny if this actually is Time II but they changed name to easy the hype for the album.
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Que?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAC94Rwwk0U
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The crowd funding has kicked off, in less than 24 hours just under 90K Euro's.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/wintersun-crowdfunding--3/x/2364920#/
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I would really like to help them, but 50€ is a bit much. I'll have to think on this. If they had included a 20€ package or so I would have been all over this,
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For the actual content you are getting and supporting the band directly, I think 50 euro's is cheap, I would have paid double.
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It's undeniably a whole lot for the price, but I'm really only interested in the new album and none of the other stuff.
Still, I'll probably end up getting in on this.
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Bumping this for one last time, crowdfunding ends in 3 days, new stuff added to the package.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/wintersun-crowdfunding--3/x/2364920#/
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Sorry about the obligatory plugging, but the website that I write for did an interview with Jukka (https://www.musicalypse.net/wintersun-jukka-koskinen-2017/) earlier this month about the crowdfunding campaign.
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Full concert from Nummirock last weekend, semi-official bootleg uploaded by Jari: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvrllx0xDPU
The show starts with Awaken from the Dark Slumber (Spring).
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Yeah I saw it a couple of days ago, Jari's live vocals have improved out of sight since he dropped playing guitar.
Three weeks today the new album drops, along with all the the other crowd funding goodies, can't wait.
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Bumping this, as the new album The Forest Seasons is out today.
Got my link for the CF package around 0300, so I was tired but eager to sample.
Glad to say that the album is nothing like Time 1, but still has many layers to pick away and digest before fully appreciating.
Oh the isolated Time ! tracks are amazing and killer songs in their own right.
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Unfortunately I am not really digging the new album thus far. Not really a hook that stood out to me, but I can't say it is bad either.
And a little pet peeve of mine is how Jari handles "choirs". He rallies up an x amount of dudes and let's them sing the same melody in a lower and higher octave, layers them over each other, and calls it a day. It can sound neat here and there as it sounds like a group of friends singing a song at a party, but it for his ambitious epics I find it lacking.
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It's actually a real love of mine with Wintersun and also Ensiferum do it now and then.
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Their live studio version of Sons of winter and stars is still as epic! :metal
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Got my hopes up when I saw this thread bumped.
But yeah, that DVD that comes with Time 1 is incredible.
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Yeah me too, I don't think Time II will ever come out now.
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I will say, I think The Forest Seasons is my fav Wintersun album, that's the one I go to anyway the most. 4 brilliant songs.
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Oh sry guys, I know very well it's sensetive to bump this thread without news. Time runs slow in Jaris part of the world. :lol
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Oh sry guys, I know very well it's sensetive to bump this thread without news. Time runs slow in Jaris part of the world. :lol
Runs backwards I'm pretty sure.
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I will say, I think The Forest Seasons is my fav Wintersun album, that's the one I go to anyway the most. 4 brilliant songs.
TFS is actually an all Jari demo that he polished into a fully fledged Wintersun album.
He plays all the instruments, drum machine, with only the backing vocals from the other band members.
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At the very least I hope he will just go into the studio and record that Time song that never released and that they played live like a decade ago.
I will say, I think The Forest Seasons is my fav Wintersun album, that's the one I go to anyway the most. 4 brilliant songs.
Interesting, maybe I need to revisit it to see if I like it more.
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Early April fool's day joke, Jari has posted that Time II is 100% complete :biggrin:
WINTERSUN ALBUM UPDATE - BIGGEST WINTERSUN NEWS
TIME II = 100% DONE. Enough said.
"This album has been the biggest challenge in my life and I'm still kinda surprised it is finally done." - Jari
“The day finally came: TIME II is done!! Couldn’t be happier!” - Jukka
"I thought this day would never arrive and when Jari sent me a message that TIME II was ready I still couldn’t understand that we were finally done after all the obstacles and challenges. I am more than happy now. Cheers!" - Kai
"Whoa, I think Jari surprised us all! I’m happy that after all these years the album is finally ready!" - Teemu
Next week a little bit more information about the album release plans... Stay tuned!
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Early April fool's day joke, Jari has posted that Time II is 100% complete :biggrin:
WINTERSUN ALBUM UPDATE - BIGGEST WINTERSUN NEWS
TIME II = 100% DONE. Enough said.
"This album has been the biggest challenge in my life and I'm still kinda surprised it is finally done." - Jari
“The day finally came: TIME II is done!! Couldn’t be happier!” - Jukka
"I thought this day would never arrive and when Jari sent me a message that TIME II was ready I still couldn’t understand that we were finally done after all the obstacles and challenges. I am more than happy now. Cheers!" - Kai
"Whoa, I think Jari surprised us all! I’m happy that after all these years the album is finally ready!" - Teemu
Next week a little bit more information about the album release plans... Stay tuned!
So they took over 11 years to complete it, now is it going to take another 11 years to release it?
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This album is fair in the 'believe it when I see it' category, but definitely interested and hopefully is does come out sooner rather than later.
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... no way! :omg:
Some of his music for me is the best of it's genre and both Wintersun probably would rank quite high in my top 50 albums of all time. A new Wintersun release will have my attention, but this will be one of those cases where it is hard to live up to the legacy behind it. Not just after Time I, but the fact that the whole Time thing began in 2006.
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... no way! :omg:
Some of his music for me is the best of it's genre and both Wintersun probably would rank quite high in my top 50 albums of all time. A new Wintersun release will have my attention, but this will be one of those cases where it is hard to live up to the legacy behind it. Not just after Time I, but the fact that the whole Time thing began in 2006.
I agree. With the build up and hype of this for so long, no matter how good it could be, it probably still won't meet the collective expectations.
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... no way! :omg:
Some of his music for me is the best of it's genre and both Wintersun probably would rank quite high in my top 50 albums of all time. A new Wintersun release will have my attention, but this will be one of those cases where it is hard to live up to the legacy behind it. Not just after Time I, but the fact that the whole Time thing began in 2006.
I agree. With the build up and hype of this for so long, no matter how good it could be, it probably still won't meet the collective expectations.
I don't know, my expectations are pretty low at this point. I thought Time I was a step down from the first Wintersun album. And then The Forest Seasons was another step down.
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Yeah, fair enough. I guess I couldn't really care myself truthfully. Maybe living up to the hype.....or anticipation is a better term. I dunno, Forest Seasons is actually my fav so what the hell would I know.
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People are more than justified to be skeptical at this point. At least with Fear Inoculum, Tool didn't claim to actually be working on the album for all that time it took to come out. :P
Apparently around a year ago the band (which is to say, just Jari) uploaded a "limited time" single to Bandcamp called Warning, and this RYM review is one of the most hilariously brutal things I've read on the website. :lol
Jari slapped together this desperate, pathetic, sad and embarrassing 2-minutes of djenty cringe so that he could shill some new guitars. This song and music video are nothing more than ad space.
It's probably not even worth commenting on the fact that this sounds nothing like Wintersun of the past or that despite Jari's well-developed self-cultivated image as some kind of autistic perfectionist when it comes to mixing his tracks, the mix on this sounds atrocious.
Wintersun is quite possibly the longest-running, most successful scam in all of metal. It's the grift that keeps on giving. The utter train wreck that is this "band" is nothing if not entertaining, and if there is anything to be gleaned from this release, it is indeed a warning that the future of Wintersun looks bleaker and more comedic than ever.
Stay classy, Jari.
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I'm actually cautiously optimistic because this material was written simultaneously with Time I. He can ruin it with too many bells and whistles, of course :biggrin:
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The Time album was originally supposed to be released as one complete album.
NB forced Jari to give them a partly completed album, hence Time I.
Time II was supposed to be out 12 months after the first Time, but as we know that never happened.
Down the years Jari stated on his FB page that Time II will never be completed and a bunch of other diatribe.
Which asks the question, will Time be released as a complete album and will the Time I material, be remixed, re-amped to sound the same as Time II?
Put it this way Wintersun has actually only released one full album, the S/T debut.
Time I was only half an album and TFS was a Jari demo that he sold us as a proper WS album.
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He did redo Time I about 6 years ago or so and released it on their Bandcamp. That's the version I have, which he called Time I 1.5.
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Time II crowdfunding campaign starts March 1st....
I'm getting a bulk supply of popcorn for this one :biggrin:
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Time II crowdfunding campaign starts March 1st....
(https://c.tenor.com/wIxFiobxxbIAAAAd/tenor.gif)
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He did redo Time I about 6 years ago or so and released it on their Bandcamp. That's the version I have, which he called Time I 1.5.
This was first sold as part of the original CF package and not really that much different from the original NB version.
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I mean I'll buy the album if it actually comes out, but I'll pass on that crowdfunding deal.
I imagine it'll reach its goal pretty quickly, though. People don't learn.
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Time II crowdfunding campaign starts March 1st....
I'm getting a bulk supply of popcorn for this one :biggrin:
Wait.....is this real?
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lol I didn't even bother to check.
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Time II crowdfunding campaign starts March 1st....
Yeah.......nah. I'll pass.
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TIME II RELEASE AND WINTERSUN CROWDFUNDING II (FOLLOW-UP UPDATE)
So last Friday, we dropped the biggest news and gave a Wintersun album update of a lifetime! And yes indeed, TIME II is finally done. 100% DONE! And it sounds massive!
Were you guys surprised? 🙂
Thank you to everyone for supporting and helping us to get it finally finished! We’ll be dropping more information along the way about the album and how all this happened.
Now… We need just a little bit more patience from you guys while we prepare everything for the release. The album booklet (Gyula Havancsák is working on it), promo photos (we have a photoshoot soon with Onni Wiljami Kinnunen), merchandise, physical release (CD, vinyl) with Nuclear Blast, etc.
If everything goes according to plan, the album release will happen in the late summer of 2024, the latest early fall.
Before that, we will launch the second crowdfunding campaign, planned to start on March 1st, which will be a pre-order for a very big PACKAGE that will include TIME II. More information about this later, but let’s just say that there are a lot more surprises we have in store for you!
Wait, I don't get it, if it's all getting done now with the release, what's the crowdfunding for? What would happen if he didn't meet a specific financial goal? I'd hate to think. :lol
Unless he's just trying to get as much of the costs back as possible in quick turnaround?
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01 March 2024 and the 'crowdfunding' is now live.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/wintersun-time-ii-pre-order-with-time-package?fbclid=IwAR1wyYvnYOPcuQLSkkkhewxyfNtR7OHiQxpC_nTgQ0F4FoDAFs1LfrZkisQ#/
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To be fair, the package for the price is actually pretty damn good. Lots of content.
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Yeah it looks amazing and next month more stuff will be announced.
I already handed over my $83 AUD, only have to wait until August 30th now for the fully download.
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While I don't really buy CDs anymore, $83 is a damn good price for this that I'm mighty tempted. Was there a shipping fee for us mate?
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It's all digital mate.
Physical release will be Nuclear Blast for the album only.
All the extra's are exclusive to the Indiegogo release.
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Ah silly me, that makes sense lot more sense now with the good price. :lol
Still a great price. The updated Forest Seasons sounds awesome in those samples.
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Only $54 US. The thing that caught my eye is all that artwork at the very bottom of the page. I'm a sucker for that kind of art. Looks just fantastic. I might pull the trigger on this even though I am a physical guy. As said, a ridiculous amount of content.
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Don't forget, as Jari said in the video, next month more content will be announced.
I am hoping it will be Time I with the same mix and mastering as Time II and maybe the two combined together.
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Kind of forgot about this. Just backed the campaign for all of the content. They are funded at 269% of the goal right now. You have 15 days left to back it.
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April 'surprise', the Time package will include a complete new mix/master of Time I, this is exclusive to the package with no physical release planned.
https://youtu.be/Rr80fHJTz3o?si=Ag3Uab8LNerdWLtv
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You nailed it with your guess. This is quite a bit of stuff to download when the time, no pun intended, comes.
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A&P interview with Jari
https://youtu.be/kk20Z7vlwIU?si=zUMxUsj8ZK-WNjr_
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8,209 backers and counting, extended campaign finishes at he end of the month.