DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
General => Polls/Survivors => Topic started by: splent on July 14, 2012, 09:26:15 AM
-
Sorry for the extensive delay in starting this thing. I promise I'll ATTEMPT to come by and update this every day. Ive been busy and sick and busy and sick and forgot to start this thing.
For those who dont know this is how it works.
1. You can only vote once.
2. You vote for your LEAST favorite.
3. New round every day, but for another album. Alternates.
4. Non-album tracks/demos will be included in a separate survivor. I have to figure out how to do that based on what I did two years ago and to be honest it was so complex I dont remember, but it would be different now because of the release of ADToE. And I don't want it to be a top 28. I want it to be a round number that ends in 0 or 5 because I'm anal like that. Ill ask for suggestions in the other thread.
5. Due to past vote problems, I am not showing the results until after the poll expired.
Enjoy.
-
Great to see you're running this :tup
The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun
-
The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun
Its intro is amazing. :(
Light Fuse and Get Away
-
TOWHTSTS
Never have liked that song... it goes nowhere
-
Status Seeker.
-
Status Seeker.
-
3. New round every day, but for another album. Alternates.
Has it always been this way? It's kinda confusing, isn't it? I don't mind if everybody else is into it, though. Well done, Splent, for being determined to run this thing despite being sick and busy, that's the spirit. :tup
The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun
-
5. Due to past vote problems, I am not showing the results until after the poll expired.
Ugh. Well, there went my interest in this.
-
Status Seeker.
is the third best song on the album.
Light Fuse and get Away
-
Light The Fuse and Get Away, definitely.
-
5. Due to past vote problems, I am not showing the results until after the poll expired.
Ugh. Well, there went my interest in this.
It's a necessary evil if you wanna keep voters as honest as possible since we've seen what happens when people start altering their votes in order to try to play the system to have the process more closely mirror their preferences rather than doing what the poll calls for, actually sincerely voting for the one song they like least.
That established, my vote goes for OaMoT.
-
5. Due to past vote problems, I am not showing the results until after the poll expired.
Ugh. Well, there went my interest in this.
It's a necessary evil if you wanna keep voters as honest as possible since we've seen what happens when people start altering their votes in order to try to play the system to have the process more closely mirror their preferences rather than doing what the poll calls for, actually sincerely voting for the one song they like least.
That established, my vote goes for OaMoT.
It was more also like people would go behind and say "Such and such is almost winning, let's vote for x to prevent it..." and I was witness to it at one point. I'm sorry Kev. I mean, there is another option where you don't see anything until you vote, and I may do that one instead.
-
TOWHTSTS - just nothing redeeming about it. I guess the intro is kinda cool but it's a lame song.
-
I get the reason behind it, but hiding the results until the poll is over makes this boring as hell to follow. Following the voting as it goes along, and nears the end, is what it makes it fun, not so much the results. I know I am not alone in this opinion, as a handful of people in the thread where you asked if you should do it again agreed with me, but apparently that didn't matter. I think hiding the results until the polls are over is missing the point of these types of survivors. They are supposed to be fun, the final results not really meaning anything anyway, but doing it this way pretty much takes all of the fun out of it, IMO. It's like just seeing the final score of a football game instead of watching it and enjoying the twist and turns and whatnot that lead to the final score.
-
I agree with Kev - use the option that only the ones who have voted can see the poll results, that'd be cooler.
-
I get the reason behind it, but hiding the results until the poll is over makes this boring as hell to follow. Following the voting as it goes along, and nears the end, is what it makes it fun, not so much the results. I know I am not alone in this opinion, as a handful of people in the thread where you asked if you should do it again agreed with me, but apparently that didn't matter. I think hiding the results until the polls are over is missing the point of these types of survivors. They are supposed to be fun, the final results not really meaning anything anyway, but doing it this way pretty much takes all of the fun out of it, IMO. It's like just seeing the final score of a football game instead of watching it and enjoying the twist and turns and whatnot that lead to the final score.
Tell you what. Because a) most of those people who used to fuck with the results are now gone and b) a significant amount of people who are here want it the old way, I'll show the results (except for the last vote, to create suspense), but if there is significant and obvious situation where there is voting tampering, I'll take it back.
-
:tup :tup
:coolio
-
Ridiculouslylongsongtitle gets my vote.
-
I'll vote for Light Fuse...............never understood the dislike for Status Seeker; I love it.
-
Never got the hate for TOWHTSTS....it's absolutely my favorite song from the album, and a top 20 all-time Dream Theater song for me. Catch myself singing it all the time. AMAZING song. :hefdaddy
Status Seeker
-
Never got the hate for TOWHTSTS....it's absolutely my favorite song from the album, and a top 20 all-time Dream Theater song for me. Catch myself singing it all the time. AMAZING song. :hefdaddy
Status Seeker
See, that's how I feel about Only A Matter of Time, and there's so much hate here.
-
Light Fuse.
Thank you for showing the results once voted, that is much better.
-
Status Seeker
-
Fuck these Status Seeker votes, such a cool song.
-
Fuck these Status Seeker votes, such a cool song.
Guess I've been fucked. It's not.
-
Never got the hate for TOWHTSTS....it's absolutely my favorite song from the album, and a top 20 all-time Dream Theater song for me. Catch myself singing it all the time. AMAZING song. :hefdaddy
Status Seeker
See, that's how I feel about Only A Matter of Time, and there's so much hate here.
Maybe years ago but OaMoT has been the de facto odds-on favorite for WDaDU for quite some time around here. Even moreso than TKH.
-
Yeah the whole "I'm voting for this to save that" crap was stupid. Hopefully that wont happen anymore.
Status Seeker
-
Yeah the whole "I'm voting for this to save that" crap was stupid. Hopefully that wont happen anymore.
Status Seeker
As a mass plan of attack and/or a group voting strategy, I agree. However, if I knew my vote was going to be the difference in Scarred or TDEN (let's face it, this issue usually surrounded those two songs) moving on or not, then I may have swapped my vote to Lie or The Mirror (or whatever) if either of those were close to the same number of votes.
What's the Survivor (TV show motto) ... outwit, outlast, outplay? Whatever it takes baby.
-
Yeah the whole "I'm voting for this to save that" crap was stupid. Hopefully that wont happen anymore.
Status Seeker
As a mass plan of attack and/or a group voting strategy, I agree. However, if I knew my vote was going to be the difference in Scarred or TDEN (let's face it, this issue usually surrounded those two songs) moving on or not, then I may have swapped my vote to Lie or The Mirror (or whatever) if either of those were close to the same number of votes.
What's the Survivor (TV show motto) ... outwit, outlast, outplay? Whatever it takes baby.
Perhaps, but we're still supposed to vote for our least favorite track without bias.
-
*snippage*
we're still supposed to vote for our least favorite track without bias.
That's how I've always treated the survivors I've voted in thus far.
-
Ya....but you hate your vote to just be *pointless*.
I mean, the next round, I would *LOVE* to vote for OAMOT....but there's no way I'll be any more than one of about 3 people. OAMOT may very well be *my* least liked song on the entire album. But I also know it's a fan favorite. Who seriously wants their vote to be completely pointless for 6 rounds??!! If my vote is going to be that meaningless, I may as well just sit here and wipe boogers on the screen for all the good it will do me. So if I notice that my 7th favorite is in a close call with my #1 favorite...I'm going to vote off my #7 in an attempt to save my #1. And that is exactly why I voted Status Seeker.
-
Light Fuse & Get Away, the only less than great song on the album. Also, this:
Fuck these Status Seeker and TOWHTSTS votes, such cool songs.
-
Ya....but you hate your vote to just be *pointless*.
It needlessly skews the results though since it creates swing votes that weren't actually swing votes in the first place since the least-favorite track (out of those remaining that is) was still able to be voted for. The point of a survivor is to eliminate songs individually based on honor system voting, not just a self-centered tug of war between folks who are bent on trying to get their way.
Based on this fallibility, I think a far superior method for collecting the most accurate data possible would be a format where each voter has to submit a ranked list of all the songs from a particular album and the points would be awarded in a way similar to how the Associated Press handles their top 25 NCAA football rankings. In that poll, a 1st place vote is worth 25 points, 2nd place is 24 points, and so on, all the way down to a 25th place vote being worth only 1 point.
The main difference would be that instead of the point range being 1-25, it would be dependent on the number of tracks on each album so Images and Words, for example, would have a 1st place vote being worth 8 points, Awake would have it being 11 points, etc. This seems like it would make it difficult to establish a fair scoring system but not necessarily since the albums aren't competing against one another, just each album's tracks amongst themselves and by the time tracks from different albums are competing against each other, they'll all be getting scored evenly since in the finals, consolation, etc., all the songs will be consolidated into one "album" at a time.
-
Fuck these Status Seeker votes, such a cool song.
Guess I've been fucked. It's not.
FUUUCCCKKK!!
-
The point of a survivor is to eliminate songs individually based on honor system voting, not just a self-centered tug of war between folks who are bent on trying to get their way.
I thought the point of a survivor was to determine the top 2 songs on an album? Here's the thing, let's say 10 people are voting. 6 love Status Seeker, but all 6 have a different "least favorite" at this point. The other 4 all have SS as their "least favorite". Guess what goes under the 'vote for your least favorite'? Status Seeker. But it's not the least liked song across the group.
(BTW, the gang voting also works the other way as well. Groups can conspire to save their favorite (even when it's a different favorite) by targeting a given song)
Look, there's obviously two schools of thought on this, and neither is going to convince the other that theirs is more right. It is what it is. Someone (I want to say Setlist Scotty )did something a couple of years ago to get a 'more accurate' view of what the forum considered the top songs. I forget his methodology, but do remember that he figured out standard deviations and everything. Scarred and TDEN were the two most contentious songs. Bottom line is it's an imperfect way to determine the 'top' songs no matter what.
-
Where the hell do all those votes for Status Seeker come from? :(
I'm seriously baffled, I think it's a great song.
-
Where the hell do all those votes for Status Seeker come from? :(
I'm seriously baffled, I think it's a great song.
You seriously know what the fuck is up bro!! :tup
-
Status Seeker has traditionally been one of the first songs voted off.
-
Light Fuse and Get Away
-
Status Seeker has traditionally been one of the first songs voted off.
I know this, but I don't get why that is.
-
TOWHtStS
-
TOWHtStS
-
The point of a survivor is to eliminate songs individually based on honor system voting, not just a self-centered tug of war between folks who are bent on trying to get their way.
I thought the point of a survivor was to determine the top 2 songs on an album?
No, it's to determine the top song from each album. The 2nd best songs get invited to the finals just to make it a bigger group of songs or to placate those who were bummed out about 2nd place songs not winning for their respective albums and thus giving those songs a chance to fight another day as far as I could guess. If we only wanted to figure out the top 2 songs, we wouldn't bother running the final round for an album to determine a favorite.
-
When it comes to it, it's never been able to find our favourite songs, it's more about finding out our least objectionable. And the finalists won't necessarily be Dream Theater's least objectionable twenty songs, because I imagine a full half of Images and Words would be in that list. Because ultimately, it's a game. It's not a barometer, or a survey, or a census - just a game. "These are the rules, which song does best?" It's a good game, played for fun.
Except when TOWHTSTS survives for a round longer than Status Seeker. Then it's a horrendous game that needs to be stopped at any cost. Seriously, what's everyone got against Status Seeker? The Ones is so dull!
The point of a survivor is to eliminate songs individually based on honor system voting, not just a self-centered tug of war between folks who are bent on trying to get their way.
I thought the point of a survivor was to determine the top 2 songs on an album?
No, it's to determine the top song from each album. The 2nd best songs get invited to the finals just to make it a bigger group of songs or to placate those who were bummed out about 2nd place songs not winning for their respective albums and thus giving those songs a chance to fight another day as far as I could guess. If we only wanted to figure out the top 2 songs, we wouldn't bother running the final round for an album to determine a favorite.
Multiple finalists also helps give context. The second place song on Album A might not have a chance of beating the first place on Album A, but it might be able to beat the first place on Album B.
-
Status Seeker has traditionally been one of the first songs voted off.
I know this, but I don't get why that is.
-
Status seeker
-
Status Seeker has traditionally been one of the first songs voted off.
I know this, but I don't get why that is.
I think part of it has to do with how era-specific the intro comes off as since it really has an overt 80s vibe to it but I say fuck it. I like that song a lot as well as the entire album as a whole. Not nearly enough DT fans give this album its due love.
-
Light The Fuse and Get Away, definitely.
-
The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun, it's just not memorable enough.
-
The only way to make it a true survivor is to put all songs against each other... but that would take way too long to set up