DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
General => Archive => Political and Religious => Topic started by: AndyDT on March 11, 2012, 04:28:20 PM
-
I've got a good body, thanks be to God, but I don't think it's right to be exposing it any more than necessary to men or women.
I do martial arts and you get lots of guys walking around with their gi unfastened. Also we have to train with women and the top can get loose. I was listening to a seminar from a prominent American protestant minister and he was saying that physical nakedness should be part of spiritual nakedness in marriage and only part of marriage
If you're swimming then I can understand it's not really practical to cover up, but in martial arts is it appropriate to train with women both for semi-nakedness reasons and the physical contact aspect?
What about around other men? In the changing rooms there's often men standing naked in front of each other. In an extreme case I saw (for two seconds until I walked away) a married guy flapping his penis around with moisturiser in front of another guy who was making no effort at modesty when talking to him.
-
lol it's fine Andy. You can be topless around other people, god won't mind.
-
best
thread
ever
-
I often flap my penis around with moisturiser in front of people, I didn't think it was a bad thing ???
-
You, sir, think too much. Calm down a bit, relax, and things will make sense.
-
hehehehehehehe
penis
-
What the hell I just read? :lol
-
If you don't want to be naked around other people, then don't be naked around other people. I don't like changing in front of people in locker rooms, especially if I know them. So I don't do it.
Just do what you are comfortable with. But don't judge people that don't get as uncomfortable as you do.
-
There's always the Burkini (https://www.multiculturecrisis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/australian-burkini.jpg?w=200).
Other than that, I say flop away!!
rumborak
-
he was saying that physical nakedness should be part of spiritual nakedness in marriage and only part of marriage
If you're swimming then I can understand it's not really practical to cover up, but in martial arts is it appropriate to train with women both for semi-nakedness reasons and the physical contact aspect?
I doubt that he meant that to be taken as "Christians should only walk around covered from head-to-toe with people they aren't married to."
-
Given that the gospels make no mention of Jesus' public flop (or lack thereof), you'll probably have to figure this one out the hard way, Andy, by asking yourself "what am I comfortable with?".
rumborak
-
There's always the Burkini (https://www.multiculturecrisis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/australian-burkini.jpg?w=200).
Other than that, I say flop away!!
rumborak
Jesus, where the hell did you find that pick?! :lol
Also Jerry, my boys....they need their support!!
-
WWADTD?
-
What about around other men? In the changing rooms there's often men standing naked in front of each other. In an extreme case I saw (for two seconds until I walked away) a married guy flapping his penis around with moisturiser in front of another guy who was making no effort at modesty when talking to him.
Did you subsequently have sex with either of these men? If not, then you're probably fine.
Because it was a locker room, and people tend to be naked in locker rooms. And partially naked when they're working out or swimming or whatever. Just don't bang anything that moves and don't freak out about it, and you should have no problems.
-
There's always the Burkini (https://www.multiculturecrisis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/australian-burkini.jpg?w=200).
Other than that, I say flop away!!
rumborak
Just don't copy my floppy and we'll be fine. That's patented.
-
I've got a good body, thanks be to God, but I don't think it's right to be exposing it any more than necessary to men or women.
I do martial arts and you get lots of guys walking around with their gi unfastened. Also we have to train with women and the top can get loose. I was listening to a seminar from a prominent American protestant minister and he was saying that physical nakedness should be part of spiritual nakedness in marriage and only part of marriage
If you're swimming then I can understand it's not really practical to cover up, but in martial arts is it appropriate to train with women both for semi-nakedness reasons and the physical contact aspect?
What about around other men? In the changing rooms there's often men standing naked in front of each other. In an extreme case I saw (for two seconds until I walked away) a married guy flapping his penis around with moisturiser in front of another guy who was making no effort at modesty when talking to him.
Really?
-
I don't mind seeing other people naked, I don't mind other people seeing me naked and I don't mind what you call God thinks of that.
-
I don't think God cares very much about this.
-
I agree with Rumborak's post saying its a personal judgement call ultimately but I think Paul in the bible talks about modesty in dress. So there is a Christian basis for appropriate behaviour here. I just wondered what other people think.
I'm not comfortable with parading around topless around mainly women because of inequality and immodesty.
-
There's nothing wrong with non-sexual nudity around others.
-
I've just done a quick search and most of the modesty instructions from Paul or Peter or the OT writers seem to be directed at women. Whether it's non-sexual though is in the eye of the beholder surely. Men may be more affected by sight than women but to claim women aren't affected at all seems disingenuous. And that's what I notice at MA class - how do these guys know the women aren't going to be affected by their partial nakedness? Either they want that or they haven't considered it. So I make the decision to try to avoid semi-nakedness around non-girlfriends etc.
-
I can always tell an Andy post by the thread title :lol
-
I've just done a quick search and most of the modesty instructions from Paul or Peter or the OT writers seem to be directed at women.
Back in those days things were rather misogynist tbh. I don't think you want to use Peter or Paul as guiding principles.
rumborak
-
how do these guys know the women aren't going to be affected by their partial nakedness?
If you're "partially naked" in an area that it's acceptable to be, such as the pool, beach, playing football in the park, or whatever, if the women have a problem with it, it's their responsibility to leave, not yours to cover up.
-
(https://www.kirksnosehair.com/Portals/0/images/smilies/best.gif)
-
I usually wave my member around in public to shame everyone and inspire awe. Sexually.
-
I have been spending the last 5 minutes trying to think of a way to respond to this thread. Andy, you've done it. You've made a topic that I just have no fucking clue where I can make myself out to be a facetious prick. Congrats. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ)
-
I play co-ed ice hockey. It's just a rec league, nothing fancy. One time I went for a pick up game, this guy had serious issue of me changing in the same locker room. It was the first time I ever had the issue come up. I come already dressed for hockey - just need to put on my pads. So it wasn't the fact that I might show skin, it was the fact that he didn't want me to see him. I don't gawk at dudes, especially this one as he was 50-60 age range. I'll admit, the college boys are nice to catch a glimpse of... back to the topic on hand, he dressed in the same locker room - I went to the restroom while he was changing. However, after hockey, he grabbed his stuff and changed somewhere else. If that's what he has to do to feel comfortable, I see no problem. My problem was when he vocalized "She isn't changing in here is she?" like I couldn't hear him.
-
I actually feel that a more open minded view of public nudity would lead to a more relaxed attitude about sex, at least in the States. People are still so fucking puritan around here, and I live in the most liberal area in the states.
-
I play co-ed ice hockey. It's just a rec league, nothing fancy. One time I went for a pick up game, this guy had serious issue of me changing in the same locker room. It was the first time I ever had the issue come up. I come already dressed for hockey - just need to put on my pads. So it wasn't the fact that I might show skin, it was the fact that he didn't want me to see him. I don't gawk at dudes, especially this one as he was 50-60 age range. I'll admit, the college boys are nice to catch a glimpse of... back to the topic on hand, he dressed in the same locker room - I went to the restroom while he was changing. However, after hockey, he grabbed his stuff and changed somewhere else. If that's what he has to do to feel comfortable, I see no problem. My problem was when he vocalized "She isn't changing in here is she?" like I couldn't hear him.
In that case, I'd say he had a legitimate gripe. You may have arrived already dressed, but after the game, there's no telling what's gonna happen. Are you gonna just gonna take the pads off and leave pretty how much you came in, are you gonna strip down and hit the showers with the guys, or what?
And even if you're completely comfortable with that, you must realize that it's still against social norms (at least in this country) and most guys aren't gonna be okay with it. Most guys would probably joke about how much they'd love it if they could shower with girls, but I betcha if the situation actually arose (heh heh) there would be more than a few who weren't as okay with it as they claimed. And really, just changing clothes with a girl right there would bother a lot of guys.
how do these guys know the women aren't going to be affected by their partial nakedness?
If you're "partially naked" in an area that it's acceptable to be, such as the pool, beach, playing football in the park, or whatever, if the women have a problem with it, it's their responsibility to leave, not yours to cover up.
What in the hell is "partial nakedness"? Naked means you're not wearing clothes. If you're wearing clothes, you're not naked. If you're wearing a short-sleeved shirt, your arms are exposed. If you're wearing shorts, your legs are exposed.
:omg: Holy shit! Bare skin! Partial nakedness!
Oddly enough, this ties into Tricia's post a bit. There are cultural and societal norms, and they vary depending on where you are. But follow them, and all is well. In the western world, right or wrong, it's okay for guys to be topless and not okay for women. In a locker room, where it's a given that there will be various stages of undress, it's okay for member of the same gender to see you, because (again, no moral judgement here, just the facts) most people are heterosexual and it's not an issue. If you're shy or self-conscious anyway, then you are. Okay, it's a problem, but it's yours and shouldn't be anyone elses. But as others have suggested, you may be making a bigger deal out of this than it really is.
-
If Bruce Lee could do martial arts bare-chested, so can you Andy.
-
I play co-ed ice hockey. It's just a rec league, nothing fancy. One time I went for a pick up game, this guy had serious issue of me changing in the same locker room. It was the first time I ever had the issue come up. I come already dressed for hockey - just need to put on my pads. So it wasn't the fact that I might show skin, it was the fact that he didn't want me to see him. I don't gawk at dudes, especially this one as he was 50-60 age range. I'll admit, the college boys are nice to catch a glimpse of... back to the topic on hand, he dressed in the same locker room - I went to the restroom while he was changing. However, after hockey, he grabbed his stuff and changed somewhere else. If that's what he has to do to feel comfortable, I see no problem. My problem was when he vocalized "She isn't changing in here is she?" like I couldn't hear him.
In that case, I'd say he had a legitimate gripe. You may have arrived already dressed, but after the game, there's no telling what's gonna happen. Are you gonna just gonna take the pads off and leave pretty how much you came in, are you gonna strip down and hit the showers with the guys, or what?
And even if you're completely comfortable with that, you must realize that it's still against social norms (at least in this country) and most guys aren't gonna be okay with it. Most guys would probably joke about how much they'd love it if they could shower with girls, but I betcha if the situation actually arose (heh heh) there would be more than a few who weren't as okay with it as they claimed. And really, just changing clothes with a girl right there would bother a lot of guys.
I leave the same way I came, just more smelly. I take off my pads and leave - shower at home. I know it can make some guys unconformable, so I don't even go near the showers. I really believe it isn't against hockey social norms for men and women to change in the same room. Almost all leagues are co-ed and there are no special locker rooms for me to use. Should I have to go change in the bathroom or the ref locker room? I've been playing for a year and this is the first time someone has had an issue with it.
-
I have no problem with seeing people naked, or being seen naked. It's the human body, for hundreds of thousands of years (and even today in many areas) the naked body is just there. It's nothing to be ashamed of, we all have one. The only time I don't like it is if I'm at the gym and the guy next to be is packing a 9+ incher, then I feel embarrassed or self conscious. I know I shouldn't, but society and porn have engrained that idea in my skull.
-
I leave the same way I came, just more smelly. I take off my pads and leave - shower at home. I know it can make some guys unconformable, so I don't even go near the showers. I really believe it isn't against hockey social norms for men and women to change in the same room. Almost all leagues are co-ed and there are no special locker rooms for me to use. Should I have to go change in the bathroom or the ref locker room? I've been playing for a year and this is the first time someone has had an issue with it.
Well, that's was part of my point. If you're just going to take the pads off and go, then I don't see a problem. But the guy asked if you were going to change there. "Changing" sounds to me like clothes coming off and others going, with partial or even full nakedness in between. I don't play sports and don't know the norms, so if you say that co-ed changing rooms are pretty common, then I believe you, but again, you do understand that not everyone is comfortable with that. It is weird that after all this time, no one has said anything before. To be blunt, anyone who himself might have been a bit shy was probably willing to deal with it in hopes of catching a glimpse of the girl changing her clothes. But most don't really care about that, and somebody who didn't finally said something.
I'm not saying you're wrong. It seems to me that we've created situations where the cultural norms are getting compromised in favor of practicality and convenience. Co-ed sports are still a relatively new thing, and places will not have two separate locker rooms for each team. So while you may still be completely within the rules, as defined by the league, the league itself has put some people into an uncomfortable position. Some people just are not going to like changing in the presence of the opposite sex.
-
Well, that's was part of my point. If you're just going to take the pads off and go, then I don't see a problem. But the guy asked if you were going to change there. "Changing" sounds to me like clothes coming off and others going, with partial or even full nakedness in between. I don't play sports and don't know the norms, so if you say that co-ed changing rooms are pretty common, then I believe you, but again, you do understand that not everyone is comfortable with that. It is weird that after all this time, no one has said anything before. To be blunt, anyone who himself might have been a bit shy was probably willing to deal with it in hopes of catching a glimpse of the girl changing her clothes. But most don't really care about that, and somebody who didn't finally said something.
I'm not saying you're wrong. It seems to me that we've created situations where the cultural norms are getting compromised in favor of practicality and convenience. Co-ed sports are still a relatively new thing, and places will not have two separate locker rooms for each team. So while you may still be completely within the rules, as defined by the league, the league itself has put some people into an uncomfortable position. Some people just are not going to like changing in the presence of the opposite sex.
While I get what your saying, I think my main issue was the way he acted. He asked the room, not me, "She's changing in here?". To which no one replied. I don't think it would have bothered me if he had directed his question at me. We then could have a discussion and I could find out his actual issue.
-
It sounds like he had a problem, and was presuming that others did as well and was looking for some support.
...because he's a coward and would not actually confront you one-on-one about what's bugging him. You took the high road. He didn't ask you directly, so you were under no obligation to respond. He asked the room, and got nothing, so I would guess that he got his answer. If he's smart, he'll figure out that yes, he's the only one with the problem, and take it to the coach or the board or whatever the governing body is. Or he'll just shut up and live with it.
He's in an uncomfortable position and as I mentioned, it's in something of a grey area as far are mores are concerned, so I'd cut him some slack. But if he gives you some shit about it, body check to the crotch.
-
:rollin Would probably be a shoulder to the crotch since I'm vertically challenged
-
Even better!
-
I don't think God cares very much about this.
Yeah, I doubt Eve had a problem with Adams flop.
-
And enter Zeke Mowatt.
I've been mulling this over, and it's an interesting situation. I'm inclined to defer to the person seeking privacy in a locker-room, where it's generally expected. Still, if the owners of the facility haven't left you with any other options, then it's pretty much on them, I suppose. Out of curiosity, I'm assuming you're not the only female in a co-ed hockey league. What to the other chicks do?
And another contribution: I've been in places that were both co-ed and textile free. Doesn't bother me, but to each their own. What people need to keep in mind is that there's an unspoken decorum that says you don't ogle each other, and there's also a very real human tendency to check people out. Everybody's going to do it; hopefully discretely. You (Tricia) mentioned checking out cute college guys. I'm sure people tend to behave themselves in that situation, but there's nevertheless a sexual element. Some people just aren't comfortable with that.
-
And enter Zeke Mowatt.
I've been mulling this over, and it's an interesting situation. I'm inclined to defer to the person seeking privacy in a locker-room, where it's generally expected. Still, if the owners of the facility haven't left you with any other options, then it's pretty much on them, I suppose. Out of curiosity, I'm assuming you're not the only female in a co-ed hockey league. What to the other chicks do?
And another contribution: I've been in places that were both co-ed and textile free. Doesn't bother me, but to each their own. What people need to keep in mind is that there's an unspoken decorum that says you don't ogle each other, and there's also a very real human tendency to check people out. Everybody's going to do it; hopefully discretely. You (Tricia) mentioned checking out cute college guys. I'm sure people tend to behave themselves in that situation, but there's nevertheless a sexual element. Some people just aren't comfortable with that.
On the particular day, I was the only female playing. However, all the other times there are other women, we all change in the same rooms with the boys. It really never crossed my mind that someone might have an issue with it - until someone did. I've been at one facility that did have women's locker rooms - however they were never/rarely used.
-
That may have been part of the problem, then. If you were one of many, then the issue of providing separate facilities for each gender is somewhat complicated. But if you're the only girl, then it's not unreasonable to ask why you can't change in an office or some other more private area, and also, most guys would assume that you'd prefer it, rather than changing with a bunch of guys right there. Again, you're just taking the pads off and going home to shower, but they don't all know that.
-
I can't help but picture Andy every night:
"Andy calling Orson. Come in Orson."
-
And enter Zeke Mowatt.
I've been mulling this over, and it's an interesting situation. I'm inclined to defer to the person seeking privacy in a locker-room, where it's generally expected. Still, if the owners of the facility haven't left you with any other options, then it's pretty much on them, I suppose. Out of curiosity, I'm assuming you're not the only female in a co-ed hockey league. What to the other chicks do?
And another contribution: I've been in places that were both co-ed and textile free. Doesn't bother me, but to each their own. What people need to keep in mind is that there's an unspoken decorum that says you don't ogle each other, and there's also a very real human tendency to check people out. Everybody's going to do it; hopefully discretely. You (Tricia) mentioned checking out cute college guys. I'm sure people tend to behave themselves in that situation, but there's nevertheless a sexual element. Some people just aren't comfortable with that.
I remember the hoopla over that with the female reporter and how some of the Pats players acted around her. In these days the rules have changed for female reporters.
-
What are the rules now? Seriously, I don't know. I thought the whole "controversy" was kinda stupid and haven't really followed up on it.
-
What are the rules now? Seriously, I don't know. I thought the whole "controversy" was kinda stupid and haven't really followed up on it.
I don't know either but I assume they involve not going up to the reporter and fondling yourself... :lol
-
Don't quote me but there is some allotted time that a player has to have a towel around him or not get undressed untill after the interview period unless going out to the main interview room and not in the locker room.
-
Don't quote me but there is some allotted time that a player has to have a towel around him or not get undressed untill after the interview period unless going out to the main interview room and not in the locker room.
I'm such a dick, aren't I?
-
Banned! :lol
-
What are the rules now? Seriously, I don't know. I thought the whole "controversy" was kinda stupid and haven't really followed up on it.
I don't know either but I assume they involve not going up to the reporter and fondling yourself... :lol
But... what if she's really hot?
-
I play co-ed ice hockey. It's just a rec league, nothing fancy. One time I went for a pick up game, this guy had serious issue of me changing in the same locker room. It was the first time I ever had the issue come up. I come already dressed for hockey - just need to put on my pads. So it wasn't the fact that I might show skin, it was the fact that he didn't want me to see him. I don't gawk at dudes, especially this one as he was 50-60 age range. I'll admit, the college boys are nice to catch a glimpse of... back to the topic on hand, he dressed in the same locker room - I went to the restroom while he was changing. However, after hockey, he grabbed his stuff and changed somewhere else. If that's what he has to do to feel comfortable, I see no problem. My problem was when he vocalized "She isn't changing in here is she?" like I couldn't hear him.
In that case, I'd say he had a legitimate gripe. You may have arrived already dressed, but after the game, there's no telling what's gonna happen. Are you gonna just gonna take the pads off and leave pretty how much you came in, are you gonna strip down and hit the showers with the guys, or what?
And even if you're completely comfortable with that, you must realize that it's still against social norms (at least in this country) and most guys aren't gonna be okay with it. Most guys would probably joke about how much they'd love it if they could shower with girls, but I betcha if the situation actually arose (heh heh) there would be more than a few who weren't as okay with it as they claimed. And really, just changing clothes with a girl right there would bother a lot of guys.
how do these guys know the women aren't going to be affected by their partial nakedness?
If you're "partially naked" in an area that it's acceptable to be, such as the pool, beach, playing football in the park, or whatever, if the women have a problem with it, it's their responsibility to leave, not yours to cover up.
What in the hell is "partial nakedness"? Naked means you're not wearing clothes. If you're wearing clothes, you're not naked. If you're wearing a short-sleeved shirt, your arms are exposed. If you're wearing shorts, your legs are exposed.
:omg: Holy shit! Bare skin! Partial nakedness!
Oddly enough, this ties into Tricia's post a bit. There are cultural and societal norms, and they vary depending on where you are. But follow them, and all is well. In the western world, right or wrong, it's okay for guys to be topless and not okay for women. In a locker room, where it's a given that there will be various stages of undress, it's okay for member of the same gender to see you, because (again, no moral judgement here, just the facts) most people are heterosexual and it's not an issue. If you're shy or self-conscious anyway, then you are. Okay, it's a problem, but it's yours and shouldn't be anyone elses. But as others have suggested, you may be making a bigger deal out of this than it really is.
As a Christain though I don't think you're supposed to encourage situations where another person could get aroused. Changing is probably fine. We have to do that in the dojo anyway sometimes and the women usually go to the bathroom. But modesty I'd have thought is the key thing as a Christian.
If Bruce Lee could do martial arts bare-chested, so can you Andy.
I suppose I would if I had to. I'm not sure Lee was being vain though.
-
If anybody on Earth had room for vanity, it was Bruce Lee.
Don't quote me but there is some allotted time that a player has to have a towel around him or not get undressed untill after the interview period unless going out to the main interview room and not in the locker room.
I don't think there are rules that prohibit you from hanging out nekkid in the presence of reporters. I think that's still common place. I seem to recall that Charles Hayley was quite fond of intimidating people with what I gathered was a highly imposing wang.
There was also an incident that predated Lisa Olson where one of the Bengals, possibly Lewis Billups, smacked a girl across the cheek with his.
I always thought the right move would have been to ban all reporters from the lockerroom, thus eliminating the equal access problem that female reporters created.
-
As a Christain though I don't think you're supposed to encourage situations where another person could get aroused. Changing is probably fine. We have to do that in the dojo anyway sometimes and the women usually go to the bathroom. But modesty I'd have thought is the key thing as a Christian.
1) I highly doubt that the women (or men) in your martial arts classes are getting aroused because of these situations. They're going at this as a training session for self-defense.
2) If you think that dressing in a gi is being immodest, then talk to your instructor about accomodating this. But I really think it's crazy to think that dressing in a gi is immodest at all yet alone immodest to the point of being un-Christian.
-
I highly doubt that the women (or men) in your martial arts classes are getting aroused because of these situations. They're going at this as a training session for self-defense.
Don't many people go into group athletics because they want to see lots of skin?
-
I highly doubt that the women (or men) in your martial arts classes are getting aroused because of these situations. They're going at this as a training session for self-defense.
Don't many people go into group athletics because they want to see lots of skin?
I suspect that's the difference between spectating and participating. I'm into women's tennis, but I have no desire to be a woman or play tennis.
-
I highly doubt that the women (or men) in your martial arts classes are getting aroused because of these situations. They're going at this as a training session for self-defense.
Don't many people go into group athletics because they want to see lots of skin?
He's asking about martial arts classes where they wear gi's.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Kata1.jpg/200px-Kata1.jpg)
-
I took some martial arts years ago. There were females in the class as well, and they wore T-shirts and tank tops underneath the gi. Problem solved.
As a Christain though I don't think you're supposed to encourage situations where another person could get aroused. Changing is probably fine. We have to do that in the dojo anyway sometimes and the women usually go to the bathroom. But modesty I'd have thought is the key thing as a Christian.
Andy, are you making some of this up, or are you part of a very, very strict sect of Christianity that basically says that anything fun or potentially arousing is bad? I'm completely serious. I'm Christian, and admittedly from what is apparently a somewhat liberal sect (United Methodist, which I'd thought was pretty strict to be honest) and I've never heard of half the restrictions that you seem to be deathly afraid of.
Situations come up. Normal interactions in which normal people interact normally. Like going to the pool. According to the laws and customs of the land, you're properly covered. But you're saying there's something wrong with showing so much skin, because some people might get aroused by it? I'd say that that's their problem, not yours. As I pointed out upthread (somewhat sarcastically, but the point was serious), there are people who will become aroused by any amount of exposed skin.
I had a co-worker who was meeting with some of our colleagues from the Middle East. She was coached ahead of time to be sure to wear long sleeves, a skirt or dress and not pants, and dark hose. They would prefer it if she wore a hat, but they would not insist. Why? Because the guys from the Middle East would be offended at the sight of so much bare female skin. Yeah, bare arms. They would get turned on, so it was her problem.
With martial arts practice, I can see a somewhat greater concern, because the garment is loose-fitting and yeah, you might get a glimpse into her top once in a while. She can wear an undershirt, or you can be a gentleman and not look. This deal with where "you're not supposed to encourage situations where another person could get aroused" is absurd to me. You're not encouraging a situation; you're practicing a skill, an art form if you will. And again, if someone gets aroused during it, then they're obviously not concentrating hard enough on what they're there for. First time a guy tries peeking into a girl's top, I hope she delivers a good kick to his face. He won't try it again.
-
How is this thread even a thing?
-
Because Andy.
-
If anybody on Earth had room for vanity, it was Bruce Lee.
Don't quote me but there is some allotted time that a player has to have a towel around him or not get undressed untill after the interview period unless going out to the main interview room and not in the locker room.
I don't think there are rules that prohibit you from hanging out nekkid in the presence of reporters. I think that's still common place. I seem to recall that Charles Hayley was quite fond of intimidating people with what I gathered was a highly imposing wang.
There was also an incident that predated Lisa Olson where one of the Bengals, possibly Lewis Billups, smacked a girl across the cheek with his.
I always thought the right move would have been to ban all reporters from the lockerroom, thus eliminating the equal access problem that female reporters created.
I think after that incident the NFL did something to allow female reporters into the lockerroom without the players harrasment by being naked and with the comments. I can't quite remember how it went down though.
-
I took some martial arts years ago. There were females in the class as well, and they wore T-shirts and tank tops underneath the gi. Problem solved.
As a Christain though I don't think you're supposed to encourage situations where another person could get aroused. Changing is probably fine. We have to do that in the dojo anyway sometimes and the women usually go to the bathroom. But modesty I'd have thought is the key thing as a Christian.
Andy, are you making some of this up, or are you part of a very, very strict sect of Christianity that basically says that anything fun or potentially arousing is bad? I'm completely serious. I'm Christian, and admittedly from what is apparently a somewhat liberal sect (United Methodist, which I'd thought was pretty strict to be honest) and I've never heard of half the restrictions that you seem to be deathly afraid of.
Situations come up. Normal interactions in which normal people interact normally. Like going to the pool. According to the laws and customs of the land, you're properly covered. But you're saying there's something wrong with showing so much skin, because some people might get aroused by it? I'd say that that's their problem, not yours. As I pointed out upthread (somewhat sarcastically, but the point was serious), there are people who will become aroused by any amount of exposed skin.
I had a co-worker who was meeting with some of our colleagues from the Middle East. She was coached ahead of time to be sure to wear long sleeves, a skirt or dress and not pants, and dark hose. They would prefer it if she wore a hat, but they would not insist. Why? Because the guys from the Middle East would be offended at the sight of so much bare female skin. Yeah, bare arms. They would get turned on, so it was her problem.
With martial arts practice, I can see a somewhat greater concern, because the garment is loose-fitting and yeah, you might get a glimpse into her top once in a while. She can wear an undershirt, or you can be a gentleman and not look. This deal with where "you're not supposed to encourage situations where another person could get aroused" is absurd to me. You're not encouraging a situation; you're practicing a skill, an art form if you will. And again, if someone gets aroused during it, then they're obviously not concentrating hard enough on what they're there for. First time a guy tries peeking into a girl's top, I hope she delivers a good kick to his face. He won't try it again.
That's not my point - I'm just saying that for a Christian especially I'd have thought that you'd take care not to be parading around half-naked. Needless to say you don't have to be christian to know or realise the virtue of this.
-
It sounds like he had a problem, and was presuming that others did as well and was looking for some support.
...because he's a coward and would not actually confront you one-on-one about what's bugging him. You took the high road. He didn't ask you directly, so you were under no obligation to respond. He asked the room, and got nothing, so I would guess that he got his answer. If he's smart, he'll figure out that yes, he's the only one with the problem, and take it to the coach or the board or whatever the governing body is. Or he'll just shut up and live with it.
He's in an uncomfortable position and as I mentioned, it's in something of a grey area as far are mores are concerned, so I'd cut him some slack. But if he gives you some shit about it, body check to the crotch.
Undoubtedly, the guy was hoping that CPP was planning on changing clothes, then when he realized she wasn't, he got all :sadpanda: and irritable.
-
Yeah, I kinda hinted at that in my post before that one, but I didn't want to say it in case it did bother her.
I'm just saying that for a Christian especially I'd have thought that you'd take care not to be parading around half-naked. Needless to say you don't have to be christian to know or realise the virtue of this.
Honestly, no.
There is nothing inherently wrong with nudity. It is our culture, actually only some cultures, which have taught us to hide our bodies and therefore get all excited when we actually get to see one. God made us naked, and considered that to be our normal state. When Adam and Eve covered themselves, that's when He knew they'd sinned and eaten from The Tree. You could even make an argument that covering ourselves is therefore sinful, not going naked.
There are societies where both males and females run around naked, and there's no wanton raping or abuse going on. Now, you may say "But those are primitive people. We are civilized." Why? What does being "civilized" have to do with dressing comfortably and practically? They live where it's 100 degrees and humid, so they wear little to nothing. We live where it gets cold, so we wear clothes. Clothes are first and foremost protection against the elements, not something to hide our bodies because it's sinful for others to see them. That's why it's perfectly okay to be naked or partially naked in a locker room. Everyone just got out of a shower, or is going in. It's just practical, and you'll notice that the vast majority have no problem with this. This is not because we're all Godless heathens. It's because we're comfortable with what He gave us, and nudity does not equal sexuality.
There are beaches where it is permissible for women to go topless, or all persons to just go naked. I've never been to one, but my understanding is that people do not go around ogling each other, and let's face it, if men were aroused by this, it would be obvious. There's a little bit of that, but that can be chalked up to an involuntary hormonal reaction; the vast majority of guys and gals behave themselves. Why? Because it's rude to stare and unacceptable to walk around at half-mast. If you have that problem, don't go there. But again, the vast majority of people are just there to get some sun, and the best way to do that is to take your clothes off.
I know others have said it, but I can't help repeating it. You seem to be the only one with this problem, Andy. Now, which do you think is more likely: Literally everybody around you is Godless and sinful and you are the only one who sees it, or you're taking an idea which admittedly has some merit and going much farther with it than was originally intended?
-
Andy, I'm not a religious person and i don't know where Christians stand with nudity but I believe that it's more a social thing. And also, if God brings you to this world naked then I don't think he would mind that you are naked anywhere else.
-
Because Andy.
Because huh? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcYlytyuKsc)
-
There was also an incident that predated Lisa Olson where one of the Bengals, possibly Lewis Billups, smacked a girl across the cheek with his.
:D This made me smile!
-
That's not my point - I'm just saying that for a Christian especially I'd have thought that you'd take care not to be parading around half-naked. Needless to say you don't have to be christian to know or realise the virtue of this.
Wearing a gi is not parading around half-naked, for fuck's sake.
-
But what if you're only wearing a gi-string?
-
*groan*
-
Andy, I suggest you study Islam and perhaps consider moving to Saudi Arabia.
Something tells me you'd find yourself at home there.
-
Yeah, I kinda hinted at that in my post before that one, but I didn't want to say it in case it did bother her.
I'm just saying that for a Christian especially I'd have thought that you'd take care not to be parading around half-naked. Needless to say you don't have to be christian to know or realise the virtue of this.
Honestly, no.
There is nothing inherently wrong with nudity. It is our culture, actually only some cultures, which have taught us to hide our bodies and therefore get all excited when we actually get to see one. God made us naked, and considered that to be our normal state. When Adam and Eve covered themselves, that's when He knew they'd sinned and eaten from The Tree. You could even make an argument that covering ourselves is therefore sinful, not going naked.
There are societies where both males and females run around naked, and there's no wanton raping or abuse going on. Now, you may say "But those are primitive people. We are civilized." Why? What does being "civilized" have to do with dressing comfortably and practically? They live where it's 100 degrees and humid, so they wear little to nothing. We live where it gets cold, so we wear clothes. Clothes are first and foremost protection against the elements, not something to hide our bodies because it's sinful for others to see them. That's why it's perfectly okay to be naked or partially naked in a locker room. Everyone just got out of a shower, or is going in. It's just practical, and you'll notice that the vast majority have no problem with this.
I'm not concerned really with the "vast majority". I'm concerned with what seems congruent.
This is not because we're all Godless heathens. It's because we're comfortable with what He gave us, and nudity does not equal sexuality.
There are beaches where it is permissible for women to go topless, or all persons to just go naked. I've never been to one, but my understanding is that people do not go around ogling each other, and let's face it, if men were aroused by this, it would be obvious. There's a little bit of that, but that can be chalked up to an involuntary hormonal reaction; the vast majority of guys and gals behave themselves. Why? Because it's rude to stare and unacceptable to walk around at half-mast. If you have that problem, don't go there. But again, the vast majority of people are just there to get some sun, and the best way to do that is to take your clothes off.
I know others have said it, but I can't help repeating it. You seem to be the only one with this problem, Andy. Now, which do you think is more likely: Literally everybody around you is Godless and sinful and you are the only one who sees it, or you're taking an idea which admittedly has some merit and going much farther with it than was originally intended?
I'm not judging. I'm just saying for me it's congruent with Christianity to not be exposed any more than I can help it with anybody other than the person I'm intimate with. So I don't want to be frotting in the changing rooms or strutting about in a mixed dojo.
-
I just don't see where you get the idea that Christianity dictates that you have to shelter yourself from any situation where you might be showing some skin. This is not offerring yourself sexually; this is not parading around with the intention of arousing anyone; this is a normal activity that just happens to involve a state of partial undress. I challenge you to find anything in the scriptures that says it is wrong.
-
I must have missed something. When did frotteurism come into play? I'm pretty sure the people in your dojo don't want that either, Andy.
As for modesty, it seems to me that's strictly a social construct. How do you know if your god prefers 19th century Victorian to 1st century Judean?
-
this is not parading around with the intention of arousing anyone
It's not even parading yourself without the intention of arousing people for that matter.
-
I just don't see where you get the idea that Christianity dictates that you have to shelter yourself from any situation where you might be showing some skin. This is not offerring yourself sexually; this is not parading around with the intention of arousing anyone; this is a normal activity that just happens to involve a state of partial undress. I challenge you to find anything in the scriptures that says it is wrong.
I said congruence, not legalism. If it 'just happens' ok but i'm not talking about that.
-
I guess I don't understand "congruence" in this context.
-
Dude, chill out, don't follow other people's advice (asides from mine) and just do what feels right to you instead of what feels right in the view of others.
-
Andy, I've given this a lot of thought, and by not walking around naked all of the time (aside from bad weather of course), you're actually doing the world a disservice. Now, as you've said, you have an amazing body. Your arms are like potatoes in a legging, just great muscles. Your legs could crush wallnuts and your knees are just the right amount of sharpness. Your abs are just inspiring andy, just god damn inspiring. I want to grate cheese on them. Your chest would put Kirk Douglas in his prime to shame. Your chin is just pure sex, no other way to say it and I could get lost forever in your eyes. Now don't even get me started with your penis. Now, I could see what god was going for with Ron Jeremy, but he clearly perfected it with you. Your testicles as well, hang just the right amount and have the perfect swing to them. Now, it's true you might cause spontaneous arousal when you walk around naked, in fact it's a guarantee that you will. However it's worth it. Men will see you and will realize that you are the ideal figure and will work harder to even achieve a 10th of what you achieve just by being you. Women will see you, and if they are in a relationship, they will please their husbands so much more thanks solely to your inspiration. By merely walking around naked Andy, you will be benefiting everyone who gets the pleasure of seeing you. The world will be a bit brighter and I'm pretty sure the world leaders will realize that all of their wars over who has the biggest dick are futile because...well, you do Andy, not any of them.
So next time you ask yourself "Should I allow anyone besides my non existent girlfriend to see me naked" say "YES!" and big loud YES. For the love of all that is holy Andy, let the world bask in the glory of your british wang.
-
:rollin
-
Wait... Andy is British?
:omg:
I had no idea. This changes everything!
-
Wow at this thread...Andy you wouldn't by any chance own a "discipline' would you?
-
Andy, I've given this a lot of thought, and by not walking around naked all of the time (aside from bad weather of course), you're actually doing the world a disservice. Now, as you've said, you have an amazing body. Your arms are like potatoes in a legging, just great muscles. Your legs could crush wallnuts and your knees are just the right amount of sharpness. Your abs are just inspiring andy, just god damn inspiring. I want to grate cheese on them. Your chest would put Kirk Douglas in his prime to shame. Your chin is just pure sex, no other way to say it and I could get lost forever in your eyes. Now don't even get me started with your penis. Now, I could see what god was going for with Ron Jeremy, but he clearly perfected it with you. Your testicles as well, hang just the right amount and have the perfect swing to them. Now, it's true you might cause spontaneous arousal when you walk around naked, in fact it's a guarantee that you will. However it's worth it. Men will see you and will realize that you are the ideal figure and will work harder to even achieve a 10th of what you achieve just by being you. Women will see you, and if they are in a relationship, they will please their husbands so much more thanks solely to your inspiration. By merely walking around naked Andy, you will be benefiting everyone who gets the pleasure of seeing you. The world will be a bit brighter and I'm pretty sure the world leaders will realize that all of their wars over who has the biggest dick are futile because...well, you do Andy, not any of them.
So next time you ask yourself "Should I allow anyone besides my non existent girlfriend to see me naked" say "YES!" and big loud YES. For the love of all that is holy Andy, let the world bask in the glory of your british wang.
But how would Jesus feel?
-
Guys I'm finding many of the posts in this thread regarding nakedness very arousing. Please stop lest God strike ye down.
-
Adami's post was beyond arousing. Once I got to the part about Andy's chin I had to close my eyes so I wouldn't lose control of my humanity and just become a sexual animal. And the part about his testicles? Goodness gracious yes.
Oh wait, how did i know about the testicle part if I closed my eyes at the chin part? I gave in to temptation and peeked, for I am a weak man.
-
As time goes on, I further suspect Adami to be LeeHarveyKennedy's alt. Absolutely amazing.
-
As time goes on, I further suspect Adami to be LeeHarveyKennedy's alt. Absolutely amazing.
Oh, no. Adami's greatness predates LHK's.
-
As a general rule I don't listen to American protestant ministers.
-
What about around other men? In the changing rooms there's often men standing naked in front of each other. In an extreme case I saw (for two seconds until I walked away) a married guy flapping his penis around with moisturiser in front of another guy who was making no effort at modesty when talking to him.
I have to ask....
...were you excited? :lol
...sorry.
(goes and sits in the corner)
-
What the hell I just read? :lol
Yeah the hell! :neverusethis:
-
Andy, I've given this a lot of thought, and by not walking around naked all of the time (aside from bad weather of course), you're actually doing the world a disservice. Now, as you've said, you have an amazing body. Your arms are like potatoes in a legging, just great muscles. Your legs could crush wallnuts and your knees are just the right amount of sharpness. Your abs are just inspiring andy, just god damn inspiring. I want to grate cheese on them. Your chest would put Kirk Douglas in his prime to shame. Your chin is just pure sex, no other way to say it and I could get lost forever in your eyes. Now don't even get me started with your penis. Now, I could see what god was going for with Ron Jeremy, but he clearly perfected it with you. Your testicles as well, hang just the right amount and have the perfect swing to them. Now, it's true you might cause spontaneous arousal when you walk around naked, in fact it's a guarantee that you will. However it's worth it. Men will see you and will realize that you are the ideal figure and will work harder to even achieve a 10th of what you achieve just by being you. Women will see you, and if they are in a relationship, they will please their husbands so much more thanks solely to your inspiration. By merely walking around naked Andy, you will be benefiting everyone who gets the pleasure of seeing you. The world will be a bit brighter and I'm pretty sure the world leaders will realize that all of their wars over who has the biggest dick are futile because...well, you do Andy, not any of them.
So next time you ask yourself "Should I allow anyone besides my non existent girlfriend to see me naked" say "YES!" and big loud YES. For the love of all that is holy Andy, let the world bask in the glory of your british wang.
This was hands down the funniest thing I have ever read on DTF :rollin
-
This thread...
Ohh, this thread...
-
I am reading this thread again, this time without pants. Will post results.
-
I am reading this thread again, this time without pants. Will post results.
As long as you do so without using your hands... or your feet... then I approve.
-
::)
-
I am reading this thread again, this time without pants. Will post results.
As long as you do so without using your hands... or your feet... then I approve.
Also remember to clean off that keyboard! :tup