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General => Archive => Political and Religious => Topic started by: yeshaberto on March 07, 2012, 09:12:18 PM
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the recent discussion on Satan got me thinking about this movie.
if you watch the bonus features, you learn that the movie was made "to build faith in god." the producer/directors thinking was that if they could verify the activity of the devil it would also verify the truth of god.
in any case, the movie is a mix between the courtroom scenes and the dramatization.
the dramatization is obviously exagerrated for entertainment value.
the courtroom scenes are straight from the original transcripts of the court.
if you only consider the discussion that is from the original transcripts of the court, it makes for some compelling evidence of the activity of a spiritual enemy.
for example, she speaks in multiple archaic biblical languages, etc
any thoughts from this angle?
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Maybe it's god and we blew it.
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The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Charles Baudelaire, "The Generous Gambler" (Feb. 1864)
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The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Charles Baudelaire, "The Generous Gambler" (Feb. 1864)
Considering how many people believe in the devil, then I'd say he failed at that trick.
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The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Charles Baudelaire, "The Generous Gambler" (Feb. 1864)
That's conspiracy-style argument though.
rumborak
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for example, she speaks in multiple archaic biblical languages, etc
any thoughts from this angle?
Were the various languages recorded and transcribed? If not then I don't know how easily I'd be convinced. A woman I use to work with claimed she could speak in tongues. I could make just as many random noises in sequence and claim I could speak in tongues if I really wanted to. Maybe the girl was just spazzing out and rambling random sounds which in turn were interpreted as a biblical language.
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the entire exorcism had been recorded on audio tape and played in the original courtroom. the transcripts in the movie are referring to the audio tape that the courtroom audience had heard.
Though it was clear that she was speaking "satanic" things in various ancient biblical languages, the prosecution argued that she must have learned these languages.
while that is possible that she may have had a casual understanding of these languages (though defense said she didn't), it wouldn't explain why she would learn the diabolical phrases in her studies.
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Wait since when was Emily Rose a real person? According the wiki page:
The character of Emily Rose was inspired by the true story of Anneliese Michel, a young German Catholic woman who died in 1976 after unsuccessful attempts to perform an exorcism upon her with psychotropic drugs. The court accepted the version according to which she was epileptic, refusing to accept the idea of supernatural involvement in this case. Two priests involved in the exorcism, as well as her parents, were found guilty of manslaughter resulting from negligence and received prison time (which was suspended), generating controversy. Michel's grave has become a place of pilgrimage for many Catholics who believe she atoned for wayward priests and sinful youth, and honor her as an unofficial saint.[1]
The trial started on 30 March 1978, in the district court and drew intense interest. Before the court, the doctors claimed the woman was not possessed, although Dr. Richard Roth, who was asked for medical help by Father Alt, allegedly said after the exorcism he witnessed on 30 May 1976, that “there is no injection against the devil, Anneliese”. The priests were defended by lawyers retained by the Church, and the parents were defended by Erich Schmidt-Leichner. Schmidt-Leichner claimed that the exorcism was legal and that the German constitution protected citizens in the unrestricted exercise of their religious beliefs. The defense played tapes recorded at the exorcism sessions, sometimes featuring what was claimed to be “demons arguing”, as proof that Michel was indeed possessed.
That's a lot less certain than "she was speaking ancient languages she couldn't have learned".
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the movie quotes exactly what was recorded on the tapes, but I can't remember them now. I remember she spoke of being associated with nero and belial.
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I just listened to the tapes of Anneliese Michels. Unless German these days counts as an ancient language she possibly couldn't have learned, I don't get what's special about the tapes. She's just plain swearing in German and makes funny noises while doing so. The only scary thing are those Bavarian priests who are much more whacko than she is.
rumborak
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Yes, but you're glossing over a crucial fact, rumborak. Swearing in German and making funny noises may not be miraculous. But what about swearing in German and making funny noises while passing golden pineapples?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
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Did she do that? I would make noises like that if I passed one, that's for sure.
rumborak
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yeah, sorry, I forgot that one of them was German. If I remember correctly the others were aramaic and hebrew and poss latin.
the pineapple story was a later adaption that textual critics date to much later and hence have placed doubt on it
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Is there any evidence for the more obscure languages? Anything I found on Youtube was German. Or was this based on the testimony of the priests?
rumborak
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I actually was just trying to search for it as well. All I remember is that the prosecution could not argue that she was indeed speaking these alternate languages accurately, but only the question of whether she was capable to have studied them on her own. I may see if I have the disc and see if I can find it.
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the pineapple story was a later adaption that textual critics date to much later and hence have placed doubt on it
:rollin
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The Golden Pineapple is eternal also. Not necessarily infinite, but but most certainly eternal.
rumborak
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“Dolls and kisses and crosses and wishes you think that can save your little girl” (sounds like german). Not sure what the other quotes are in. The prosecuter refers to greek, hebrew, latin and aramaic.
“I am the one who dwells within...”
“Nothing?”
She counts 1-6
“I am the one who dwelt within Cain”
“I am the one who dwelt within Nero”
“I once dwelt within Judas”
“And I was with Legion”
“I am Belial”
There was also an instance in which she spoke in two different voices at the same time (“dual voices”).