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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Orbert on March 05, 2012, 05:19:16 PM
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My daughter turned 14 last month. She's in 8th grade, she's a good kid. A's and B's in school, plays violin in the orchestra, skates on a synchronized skating team, does all the normal things a junior high kid should do.
Last week, she told us that she was going to go to a movie with Marius and some other friends. Didn't ask us, told us.
Marius is a guy she'd met at a local teen event a few weeks before. He's a friend of a friend, the mutual friend being a girl on her skating team, another good kid. I have no reason to think that Marius is not a good kid as well, but I also have no reason to assume he's not a punk looking to cop himself some Asian.
What movie?
I dunno.
Who else is going?
I dunno.
When is the movie?
Saturday.
When?
I dunno.
So you're going to a movie, you're not sure who with, or when?
Uh... yes.
Uh... No.
What?!
Not until we know who all is going, when and where. And I need to meet Marius.
(sighs deeply) Oh... okay.
Some definitions: If there are at least three people going, it's a "group". She can go to a movie with a group. If it is only two people, then it is a "date". She's in junior high; I'm sorry, but she is not going on a date. And she's not going with a group if I haven't at least met the other kids. None of her friends wanted to go, so it will be Marius and some of his friends, but she assures us that she will not be the only girl.
Saturday arrives. She's texting him for additional details, and slowly getting them. The movie is at 5:40. Oddly, he doesn't tell her the name of the movie, and she doesn't ask. My spidey-sense is tingling. My wife checks the website; there are two movies starting at 5:40, both are R-rated. As far as I'm concerned, this is still not happening.
More texting. Can we drop her off at 4:30? No. Why not? Because I still don't know what movie you're seeing, and therefore I don't approve it. (sigh)
More texting. (Wouldn't it just be faster to call him and talk to him?) The movie is "This Means War". PG-13, some flick about spies who are both involved with the girl from "Legally Blonde". Reese Witherspoon? Yeah, her. Cool. Wife points out that the movie actually starts at 4:30. Yes, but you know how there's always ten minutes of previews and commercials and stuff. True, but I still have not met Marius. 4:20, then.
This is the event I've been looking forward to with both dread and great anticipation. I must strike the fear of Dad into this young man. I must make it clear, preferably without having to spell it out, that if he hurts my daughter, her pain will be avenged sevenfold. (That's where the expression comes from; might as well use it.) Actually, this could be kinda fun.
He's only in 7th grade, shorter than she is. Kinda small anyway, to be honest. His handshake is weak. If he'd met me with a decent grip, I was ready to increase the pressure, but there was no need. Good eye contact, though. Good. I ask him where he goes to school, what grade he's in. I already know these things, but I want to hear his responses. His answers are relatively calm and steady. Good. Also, he keeps up the eye contact, as do I. He pays for her ticket, soda, and a thing of popcorn for them to share. Hmm, impressive. Except that that makes it more of a date, doesn't it?
He is with three friends of his, all guys. Why are they standing over there? Forget it. I don't need to meet them. All I have to do is stand here and look scary. (My wife tells me later that they were probably all terrified, Marius too, but Marius had to meet me, whereas they did not.)
His friends actually met him there, and he was dropped off by his dad, so my wife offers to drive him home afterwards. Why, I ask her? So we can see where he lives. Ah.
After we drop him off at home, we ask her how the movie was, etc. It was fine. I ask how Marius was. Was he nice, did he treat her with respect? (I've been watching Godfather movies, and "respect" seemed a good word to use.) Yes, he did.
I explain that we trust her; that is not the issue. But we don't know him. If he's there with a bunch of his guy friends, that could be a good thing, or it could be a bad thing. At this age, I don't think it's a bad thing. They all saw me. They can't all be that stupid, and I will hurt them, if it came to that.
On the way in to the theater from the car, she saw another friend from school and yelled "Hi!" to her, and they talked a bit while we waited for Marius. My wife and the other girl's mom also chatted a bit, and they were seeing the same movie. Therefore at least one theoretically responsible adult who we knew would be in the same theater. That was good enough for my wife, so it was good enough for me.
I said in another thread that you try to instill good values in them, and at some point you have to let go and trust them. They can't prove themselves and earn further trust unless they're given the opportunity. And if they know you trust them, they will hopefully try to live up to that and keep it, as opposed to taking advantage of it.
One down, presumably many to go.
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Orbert, you have come to the point where you need to buy a shotgun if you don't already have one. Nothing works better for scaring little a**holes.
On a serious note though, I am not a parent myself but being 25 I have considered the posibility of having kids in the future and every time I think that I might have a little girl that would go out into a world filled with douchebags I have second thoughts about it but then again I'm nowhere near as experienced as you are and for your story down there it seems like you are handling it pretty well. :)
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[Obertnator II: Judgment Day]
:clap:
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Bob, do you speak Chinese? If not, learn it.
Next time a guy comes by, sit him down and speak NO english to him at all. Give him a random speech about whatever you want, just make sure it's completely in chinese. Speak in a low gravily voice and make sure to sound serious and somewhat angry, when you're done, nod at him and give him a mean stare. That should work.
EDIT: It wouldn't hurt if you were also just holding a sword casually during it all.
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I explain that we trust her; that is not the issue. But we don't know him.
Well done. Remind her of this occasionally, because as she continues to grow up, she'll likely begin thinking that you're always out to demonize her. For as long as you do trust her - always make sure she knows it.
Edit: I'm not a parent, Orbert, so I understand if my advice doesn't mean shit to you. I can just tell you that throughout high school, I was much less likely to step out of line if I knew my parents believed that I wouldn't. They would reassure me that they know I'm a good kid, and that in turn made me a good kid.
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Being 16, I don't know what it feels like to be a parent. I'd imagine it's stressful though. Sorry we kids cause you guys/gals trouble.
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Sounds like you handled it as well as one possibly could. The prospect of having a daughter terrifies me.
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My kid is 18 with a steady boyfriend in college, and all I can say is good luck bud. You seemed to have handled it well. (tis kinda funny when you get all manned up to instill the "fear of Dad" into the kid, and he comes up to your waist, in any other situation, you'd be showing off your music skills to the kid or something)
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Bob, do you speak Chinese? If not, learn it.
Next time a guy comes by, sit him down and speak NO english to him at all. Give him a random speech about whatever you want, just make sure it's completely in chinese. Speak in a low gravily voice and make sure to sound serious and somewhat angry, when you're done, nod at him and give him a mean stare. That should work.
EDIT: It wouldn't hurt if you were also just holding a sword casually during it all.
That would be such a riot! No, I don't speak enough to actually give a little speech or anything, but he wouldn't know that, and I can fake it well enough, I'm sure. I grew up listening to Chinese.
My kid is 18 with a steady boyfriend in college, and all I can say is good luck bud. You seemed to have handled it well. (tis kinda funny when you get all manned up to instill the "fear of Dad" into the kid, and he comes up to your waist, in any other situation, you'd be showing off your music skills to the kid or something)
One thing I have going for me is that my buds from back home all got married and/or had kids before we did. John and Dan each have three girls, Chris and Jim each have two boys. Weird how that worked out, but the point is that I got to watch them interact with the kids quite a bit before our kids were born, and later they'd hit each milestone before ours did. Whenever we'd get together, we'd spend half the time jamming and half the time just shooting the shit, and a good deal of that was bitching about our kids. So I took a lot of notes.
In most cases, I would go for respect over simple fear. I want my kids to respect me, and I'd love it if their friends did. But I had five minutes to interact with this kid, then he was going into a dark theater with my daughter, so I went the fear route. The respect will hopefully come later, if he's around long enough. This is junior high; for all I know, we'll be on to someone else next week.
Then I get to do this all again. :xbones
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Ah, you're that dad. ;)
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Fuck. I have 3 daughters under 6. I cant even think about all this right now. My head will implode. That being said it was a wholly entertaining and horrific tale. thanks for that Orbert. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
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I wish I had understood what my parents were doing when stuff like this happened, but as a stupid kid (because we all are) I would always say things like "that's not fair" or "don't embarrass me like that" when my parents were clearly just trying to make sure that I wasn't going to do anything stupid or hang out with the wrong people. Looking back it all makes sense, and I'm glad that they did it, but back then I just wanted to have fun without my parents being involved in any way.
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I had three older brothers, so I like....sort of understood? why my parents did what they did. I just didn't care.
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I totally get where you guys are coming from, and if I had a daughter I'd do the same. I want my child safe.
My parents Mom (well mostly it's her) are still like this. Mom runs ship. I have to text her when I am going somewhere, when I get there, and when I'm on my way home.
I'm 25 years old. Mom gets mad if my boyfriend (30 years old) drops me off and doesn't come in the house to say hi. My Dad loves my bf. Mom on the other hand does not because he has long hair, tattoos, and piercings.
Recently, my boyfriend asked me to move in, on the condition that I stay in college. I have started the process of transferring schools. I mentioned to my Mom Sunday night in passing that he had asked me to move in, and suddenly WWIII broke out. She told me that he needs to ask them, because I am "not an orphan". She then went off on this long rant about how I am doing everything wrong, and how I am supposed to stay in school to get a good career, get engaged, get married, and then move in.
Please, when your daughter is 25, don't be like my Mom.
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I wish I had understood what my parents were doing when stuff like this happened, but as a stupid kid (because we all are) I would always say things like "that's not fair" or "don't embarrass me like that" when my parents were clearly just trying to make sure that I wasn't going to do anything stupid or hang out with the wrong people. Looking back it all makes sense, and I'm glad that they did it, but back then I just wanted to have fun without my parents being involved in any way.
It's all completely normal to not want your parents around when you're a teen, trying to be independent and do your own thing, and even moreso when your friends are right there. That's why I've tried to be honest with my kids about why I have to be there sometimes, and why I have to meet the boy she's going to spend two hours with in the dark. Okay, maybe not completely honest. I did want to meet him, and told her that. I didn't specifically say that I wanted to scare the shit out of him, make sure he knew what he was dealing with if he did anything wrong, but she's a smart kid, I'm sure she figured that part out.
That's why I asked her later if he was nice, if he treated her with respect. My wife jumped in and said "Did he try to kiss you?" Honestly, that's not even what I was getting at, and I said so. If it's mutual, okay. They're kids, it's gonna happen. But it's gotta happen the right way. Still, she was surprised at the question and said "No!" and it seemed an honest answer. They haven't known each other that long, and it really did seem like a "getting to know you" date, not a "get me some" date.
Which is good, because they would not find his body.
Ah, you're that dad. ;)
Damned right, I am. And if you're smart, you will be, too. ;)
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Which is good, because they would not find his body.
:lol
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My daughter Bri is in 6th grade and she already seems like a teen. My wife intercepted a text and found out one of her friends stole a cigarette from her mom and convinced her to take a drag. She got a stiff punishment for that one. Its not easy raising kids. No matter how well you think your doing, they still screw up and do dumb shit. My daughter just got high honors on her report card and is quite bright scholastically, but she seems to find it easy to just follow the herd instead of being a leader. 14 scares me. My wife and I are trying our best, but kids are not robots and sometimes make bad choices.
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Please, when your daughter is 25, don't be like my Mom.
When she's 25, no, I will have backed off quite a bit. She will still know that I love her and am concerned for her wellbeing, but she has to learn things for herself and make her own decisions. I would hope that she does so with my advice, but that's true whether she's 5, 25, or 50. It's a spectrum. I start with total control, and from the time they can do anything (crawl, walk, talk) the idea is to let them take it from there, because we're moving on to the next level. There's a hell of a lot to learn in 18 years, but at 18, that's it. I'm an advisor at that point, not the director.
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When she's 25, no, I will have backed off quite a bit. She will still know that I love her and am concerned for her wellbeing, but she has to learn things for herself and make her own decisions. I would hope that she does so with my advice, but that's true whether she's 5, 25, or 50. It's a spectrum. I start with total control, and from the time they can do anything (crawl, walk, talk) the idea is to let them take it from there, because we're moving on to the next level. There's a hell of a lot to learn in 18 years, but at 18, that's it. I'm an advisor at that point, not the director.
You remind me a lot of my dad, and I mean that in a very good way.
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All I can say is, Thank GOD I have a son!! But I have taught him well. He's in Boy Scouts as well, so his moral compass is pointed in the right direction. But I know at age 13 now, the time is coming when he wants me to take him to the movies, but drop him off at the other end of the mall so no one sees that his Dad had to drive him. How else would he get there?! Actually, that's already started.
I just have to trust that between my, my wife and Scouts, that Duncan has learned the value in respect and treating others with kindness.
I know a lot of girls go through the phase of being attracted to the assholes, but that's only a phase. Nice guys DO finish first. Not last.
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First time I had to meet a GF's father, he went hard core with the intimidation approach. Didn't hurt that he was a former Dallas cop and a dead ringer for The Big Bossman. He was an avid bow hunter, so he made sure I was very familiar with a compound bow and what it could do in skilled hands. In retrospect it's pretty clear he was damned amused at by this.
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Well played, Orbert. Very nicely handled. Your daughter is fortunate to have a father like you.
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First time I had to meet a GF's father, he went hard core with the intimidation approach. Didn't hurt that he was a former Dallas cop and a dead ringer for The Big Bossman. He was an avid bow hunter, so he made sure I was very familiar with a compound bow and what it could do in skilled hands. In retrospect it's pretty clear he was damned amused at by this.
How bout this one, my ex-wifes father was a former defensive lineman for the Cowboys, talk about fucking intimidation.
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First time I had to meet a GF's father, he went hard core with the intimidation approach. Didn't hurt that he was a former Dallas cop and a dead ringer for The Big Bossman. He was an avid bow hunter, so he made sure I was very familiar with a compound bow and what it could do in skilled hands. In retrospect it's pretty clear he was damned amused at by this.
How bout this one, my ex-wifes father was a former defensive lineman for the Cowboys, talk about fucking intimidation.
Meh. My first girlfriend's dad is Chuck Norris. /win
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First time I had to meet a GF's father, he went hard core with the intimidation approach. Didn't hurt that he was a former Dallas cop and a dead ringer for The Big Bossman. He was an avid bow hunter, so he made sure I was very familiar with a compound bow and what it could do in skilled hands. In retrospect it's pretty clear he was damned amused at by this.
How bout this one, my ex-wifes father was a former defensive lineman for the Cowboys, talk about fucking intimidation.
Meh. My first girlfriend's dad is Chuck Norris. /win
That explains your face. :D
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:rollin
Which DL?
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My first girlfriend's dad loved me. I met him only a handful of times, but he owns a lot of apartment complexes in the area I live. They spent like a grand on new clothes for my birthday for me. She broke up with me like a week before and he called me up and said 'Can Karen and I bring you the clothes? We have the receipts if you don't like them'. Got a couple pair of jeans and like 900 that I blew on pot.
Second girlfriend's dad was a pot head. We connected. (I don't smoke anymore)
My fiancees dad is annoying, but a good guy. He likes me, but I don't respect him. It isn't my place to say anything though.
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Great read.
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When I met one of my ex's dad he gave me the whole speech. "If you make my daughter cry, I will make you cry. I was trained in the army for 15 years how to hurt people." It was mostly for show and a joke, but there was just enough seriousness in it for you to be intimidated. He actually really liked me, although he always slightly had this front just for appearances/an on running joke.
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I feel for ya, man. I have 4 daughters. Luckily, my youngest is 18, so therein lies a whole new set of issues.
Parenting - the toughest job you will ever love.
Good luck and stock up on them feminine products !! :rollin
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When I met one of my ex's dad he gave me the whole speech. "If you make my daughter cry, I will make you cry. I was trained in the army for 15 years how to hurt people." It was mostly for show and a joke, but there was just enough seriousness in it for you to be intimidated. He actually really liked me, although he always slightly had this front just for appearances/an on running joke.
My dad was in the USCG for 25. He told me if I hurt any girl he'd hurt me. "What the hell dad, whose side are you on?"
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You wanted to hurt girls?
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No, but what the fuck? I'm his son. What if I didn't hurt her but a break up happened?
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It is sort of his responsibility to raise you, which includes keeping you in line.
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It is sort of his responsibility to raise you, which includes keeping you in line.
At nearly 22, yes. At 15, WTF?
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He was basically saying, "Don't be a douchebag to this girl."
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It is sort of his responsibility to raise you, which includes keeping you in line.
At nearly 22, yes. At 15, WTF?
Actually, at 15 is the time for that. Teach you and keep you in control before it becomes a problem. At 22 you're an adult, he shouldn't have to worry about that stuff. ...or if he does he's probably already lost his influence.
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I get that 100%. But, when you're 15 and just want some poon, it's WTF. I should say in 15 year old Christian's mind. 22 year old Christian realizes it was a good thing.
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This is very cute Orbert :laugh:
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"cute" is... an interesting choice of words, but thanks, I'll take it. I love my daughter more than anything, and I will protect her.
But, when you're 15 and just want some poon, it's WTF.
I think that he was just generally telling you "Men do not hurt women" -- period. This is true whether you're 15, 22, or whatever. In some ways, your capacity to hurt women at 22 is much greater than what you could've done at 15, so maybe he was just thinking a reminder would be a good idea.
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It's cute for me to see a dad being protective of his daughter and doing what he thinks he should do to keep her safe, cos it makes me think of my dad doing the same for me :)
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Yeah, that's what dads do. We are the true protectors of the universe. :police:
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My daughter has been dating the same guy for over a year. They are funny together, and he is very, very respectful.
Well done, Orbert.
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They spent like a grand on new clothes for my birthday for me. She broke up with me like a week before and he called me up and said 'Can Karen and I bring you the clothes? We have the receipts if you don't like them'. Got a couple pair of jeans and like 900 that I blew on pot..
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/forumavatars/avatar_4529_1329595960.gif)
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(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/forumavatars/avatar_3363_1328169970.jpg)
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A classic line from an ex girlfriend's dad at their dinner table one Sunday.
"You know why I like you Joe? You haven't fucked up yet. Pass the biscuts."
My response *Gulp*
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PASS THE FUCKING BISCUITS JOE
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I couldn't even speak with that lump in my throat. :lol
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great read, Orbert.
mine is 17 and has been a blessing beyond words. I keep waiting for the trouble to begin :lol
my son, on the other hand, is going to be a handful
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A classic line from an ex girlfriend's dad at their dinner table one Sunday.
"You know why I like you Joe? You haven't fucked up yet. Pass the biscuts."
My response *Gulp*
:rollin
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No, but what the fuck? I'm his son. What if I didn't hurt her but a break up happened?
Sure he didn't just mean physically hurt?
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No, but what the fuck? I'm his son. What if I didn't hurt her but a break up happened?
Sure he didn't just mean physically hurt?
Oh man, he knows I could never lay a hand on a woman. One time Courtney and I were horseplaying and I accidently smacked her really hard. I felt like shit that entire day :(
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No, but what the fuck? I'm his son. What if I didn't hurt her but a break up happened?
Sure he didn't just mean physically hurt?
Oh man, he knows I could never lay a hand on a woman. One time Courtney and I were horseplaying and I accidently smacked her really hard. I felt like shit that entire day :(
SO YOU'RE A LIAR TOO. THAT'S REAL FUCKIN' NICE, SNAPPLADYSARM!!!!!
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I read an interview with Isaac Hayes a long time ago, and he was talking about what it's like getting older. This was probably the 80's when I read it, so all those 70's artists were just getting to where they were having kids and stuff. Isaac had a teenaged daughter, and the interviewer was asking what that was like. This is Isaac Hayes we're talking about. Tall, bald, black as night, deep voice, gold chains. He said that he remembered what it was like being a teenaged boy, and he had no problem scaring the shit out of any guy who wanted to date his daughter. He said "I know you want to get between her legs," (first and only time I've ever heard it phrased that way; it's always "get into her pants") "but let me tell you. I have a brother, and he's in prison, for a long time. Because he's stupid. They found the body. I'm smarter than he is. They will not find your body."
I never forgot that. So people say I look badass. My son's friends say I look like someone who could kill you. I use that. Hey, you play the cards you're dealt, right? I could try to reason with the young men who want to get... into my daughter's pants. Or I could just scare the shit out of them. Easier, and probably more effective.
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Although I agree with your actions and I think you handled it well, I think the faux death threat thing is really lame and played out. The kid knows you aren't going to kill him.
I mean, if a father ever said to me "They won't find your body", even if he had intimidated me before, my reaction to that would be "alright whatever lol". I wouldn't take you as seriously.
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Orbert,
You pretty much need to be a large black man to pull that one off.
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Orbert is Asian. He can pull it off.
I'm what you will call a "Latino".
The only time I've ever been in a fight in my adult life (and I hope it's the last) was in the summer of 2010 in Chicago.
A group of "white" men decided it was funny to make fun of my cousin's homosexual friends. My cousin, her friends and I left the hot-dog joint and proceeded to the parking lot; we didn't pay attention to them. But... since they were a bunch of fuckers, a guy followed us and pushed me. That's when I acted. Again, I'm a "Latino", and I knew he had crossed the line. I got on my feet, cursed to him in Spanish, intimidated him and kicked the crap out of him.
I wasn't protecting my teenage daughter, I was protecting myself. Talking confidently in Spanish and letting the other guy know you are threatening him works.
Like Orbert said, I played the cards I was dealt with... and I won. He will, most likely, never have to get physical. The kid doesn't know that.
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God speed and good luck Orbert. I've watched my parents deal with my sister (almost 20 now) and I tell people that when I have a kid it's either going to be a boy or up for adoption :lol
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Although I agree with your actions and I think you handled it well, I think the faux death threat thing is really lame and played out. The kid knows you aren't going to kill him.
I mean, if a father ever said to me "They won't find your body", even if he had intimidated me before, my reaction to that would be "alright whatever lol". I wouldn't take you as seriously.
That's a good point. Borrowing from something that may have been intimidating 30 years ago may not be the best approach. When Isaac described the encounter, I could totally see him selling it, and given the context, the kid most likely took him seriously. Today, the kid would know I'm not actually going to kill him.
I think it's more the attitude that's important. I never actually said it, but I kept the thought in my head and I guess I was thinking that the attitude would come through in my eyes or something. We're talking about a 13-year-old kid, kinda small for his age at that. I'm sure I got the point across. It was not all smiles and "Good to meet you, I now trust you completely" and all that.
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Bob, do you speak Chinese? If not, learn it.
Next time a guy comes by, sit him down and speak NO english to him at all. Give him a random speech about whatever you want, just make sure it's completely in chinese. Speak in a low gravily voice and make sure to sound serious and somewhat angry, when you're done, nod at him and give him a mean stare. That should work.
EDIT: It wouldn't hurt if you were also just holding a sword casually during it all.
I think the sword should be mandatory actually.
But anyways, looks like you're doing a good job of handling a typically touchie situation. :tup
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I don't think touchy was the right choice of word, there. :)
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:lol
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:lolpalm:
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Well played, Orbert. Very nicely handled. Your daughter is fortunate to have a father like you.
Amen. My daughter is 7 (going on 17), so I soak up these stories like a sponge right now.
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I'm what you will call a "Latino".
I don't know why, but I totally read that in a Hank Hill voice,
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I'm what you will call a "Latino".
I don't know why, but I totally read that in a Hank Hill voice,
:rollin :rollin
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Orbert has wonderfully described what my guy and I are going through with his now 16 year old daughter. It's nice to know that we're not the only ones.
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I'm what you will call a "Latino".
I don't know why, but I totally read that in a Hank Hill voice,
:rollin :rollin
holy fuck :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Epilogue
We're Facebook friends, and I see sad little updates and questions from her friends, and answers, and it seems that it's over. You know how those whirlwind romances are; over and done in two weeks.
What's funny are some of the updates.
The worst part about the afterwards, is seeing the things that remind you of the times you spent together.....
Sweetie, I know you hurt, but come on, you were together two weeks. Aren't we being just a bit melodramatic?
Okay, I shouldn't make fun. But it's so... cute.
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That is soooooo cute, my heart almost breaks for her. And making fun is half the joy of parenting, so go ahead. :tup
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Excellent post Orbert...I approve 100% of your parenting decisions here. Went through the same thing with my 14 year old son this year regarding girls...As the parent of a teenage boy I can tell you teen girls nowadays scare the hell out of me. They are sooo aggressive. My son has at least three upperclass girls who he has told repeatedly he has no interest in, and still they persist. I wasn't that strong. Ever. One girl in particular I have heard him tell over the phone at LEAST twice that he doesn't like her, and that he actually likes another girl, and she still texts him routinely telling him how much she loves him. She's a jr, he's a freshman. Holy crap!
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Whoa! There's being strong, and then there's... I'm not sure what. But when I was a freshman, if I had upperclass girls calling me and professing their love... okay, it still depends on the girl, and more specifically what she looks like, but at that age, who's really that picky?
Thanks for the support. I like to think I'm going about it the smart way, and the point of this thread was more to share my experience and maybe provide some amusement than to ask for advice. But it's good to hear from others that, as far as they can tell, I'm doing things the right way.
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Apologies for resurrecting this very old thread, but (1) Orbert's description of his daughter six years ago reminds me a little of mine now, and (2) I didn't think this was worth starting a new thread.
My daughter is a 14yo freshman, who will be 15 in January. She's an honor student and plays in the marching band. She's extremely responsible and, in a situation such as I'm about to describe, I trust her completely.
Anyway, she has never been to a concert (other than a couple of classical performances). She is a big fan of Panic at the Disco, who is playing locally in February. I bought my daughter tickets to the concert and intend to give them to her for her birthday (about six weeks before the show). I bought two tickets and initially figured I would go with her. I've heard PitD a few times, and they're not my cup of tea, but they seem fine, so I wouldn't hate it, but I think she'd have more fun going with someone else. My thinking was that I would drop her off at the arena and go hang out at a nearby sports bar.
If I were the sole decision maker, that's what would happen, but I am, by far, the more lenient parent when it comes to stuff like this. I haven't yet run this by my wife, but I wanted to get some outside opinions. Anyone think I'm crazy for thinking of doing this? If this were a metal or rap show, I might think differently, but PitD seems like a relatively "safe" situation, and she's got her own phone and what not, so if something went crazy, I could be there at the drop of a hat.
Appreciate any thoughts anyone might have -- especially from parents of daughters.
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I'd say, talk with your wife first...but, yeah. Let her go with her friends.
Just don't read the Bill Hodges Trilogy in the meantime, especially Mr. Mercedes.
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It all comes down to the wife.
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I would be comfortable doing that if it were my 15 year old. With a locator app on his cell phone, him there with a friend, me dropping off and picking up, and me being close by if anything happened, I would MORE than feel comfortable. To me, that wouldn't change if he were a girl. Pretty sure my wife would be okay with it too, although she would be a bit more hesitant than I would. Obviously, it depends on the child though.
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Thanks guys. Obviously, I have to talk with the wife about this, but I did want an objective assessment of whether I was way out of line. Obviously, back when I was 15, this would've been no big deal, but.....
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Yeah, I know what you mean. My first concert, my buddy and I went to the Oakland Colosseum (now Oracle Arena where the Warriors play) when we were 13 and saw Kick Axe, Whitesnake, and Quiet Riot. Our parents were like, "OK, see ya'. Make sure you check the BART and bus schedules so you can get home and not spend the night on the sidewalk in Oakland, because we're not going all the way out there to get you. Have fun!" :lol
We're a far cry from that nowadays, but I don't think your proposal is out of line at all. I guess I might have a bit more trepidation about your plan if it was my daughter and not my son. But not much. If anything, I might just want her to go with a slightly bigger group of 3 or 4 instead of 2. But, again, you'll be close by, and she has a phone. Not a huge deal unless you suspect her of doing something she shouldn't, which it does not sound like she has a history of doing.
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Eh, I went to my first show unchaperoned at 13 and look how I turned out. :biggrin:
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You know your daughter. Unless you're an idiot (which I don't think you are), you are a good judge of her character, character that you yourself have had a large part in building. Honor student and in the marching band, to me, are two big points in her favor. Marching band is a time commitment, and being an honor student means she has smarts as well. My guess is that she's more mature than most of her peers, and presumably that translates to having good judgement as well.
And let's face it, band kids in general are good kids. I was a band kid all through junior high and high school, and those were absolutely the best times, the times I look back on fondly when someone mentions "the happiest days of our lives" (which you never hear anymore, but whatever). We had a lot of fun, but it was all good clean fun.
This is an opportunity to show her that you trust her, trust her judgement, and trust her choice of friends. She will want to prove to you that this trust is not unwarranted. Deep down, most kids want to make their parents happy, impress them, show them how awesome they are. Yes, some will take the occasional opportunity to abuse this trust, even good kids. And unfortunately, if they manage to do that, and get away with it, then they've learned that they can get away with it, and if it turned out good (for them), then they're more likely to try it again. That's why you have to move slowly, take small steps. Follow up afterwards, too. The more she knows you care, the more she knows you really love her, and the more likely she'll want to make you proud and be a good girl.
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We're a far cry from that nowadays, but I don't think your proposal is out of line at all. I guess I might have a bit more trepidation about your plan if it was my daughter and not my son. But not much. If anything, I might just want her to go with a slightly bigger group of 3 or 4 instead of 2. But, again, you'll be close by, and she has a phone. Not a huge deal unless you suspect her of doing something she shouldn't, which it does not sound like she has a history of doing.
Yeah...she's super responsible, and the worst thing she's every done is not picking up her room or doing dishes. The bigger group thing makes sense, but ticket prices being what they are, I wasn't going to get more than two.
You know your daughter. Unless you're an idiot (which I don't think you are), you are a good judge of her character, character that you yourself have had a large part in building. Honor student and in the marching band, to me, are two big points in her favor. Marching band is a time commitment, and being an honor student means she has smarts as well. My guess is that she's more mature than most of her peers, and presumably that translates to having good judgement as well.
And let's face it, band kids in general are good kids. I was a band kid all through junior high and high school, and those were absolutely the best times, the times I look back on fondly when someone mentions "the happiest days of our lives" (which you never hear anymore, but whatever). We had a lot of fun, but it was all good clean fun.
This is an opportunity to show her that you trust her, trust her judgement, and trust her choice of friends. She will want to prove to you that this trust is not unwarranted. Deep down, most kids want to make their parents happy, impress them, show them how awesome they are. Yes, some will take the occasional opportunity to abuse this trust, even good kids. And unfortunately, if they manage to do that, and get away with it, then they've learned that they can get away with it, and if it turned out good (for them), then they're more likely to try it again. That's why you have to move slowly, take small steps. Follow up afterwards, too. The more she knows you care, the more she knows you really love her, and the more likely she'll want to make you proud and be a good girl.
All good thoughts, and thanks. In fact, we just told her yesterday that we really like everyone she's chosen as a friend, and all of the marching band kids are really cool. The marching band season will be done before Christmas, so I figure by January she'll be looking for things to do with all her free time!
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Eh, I went to my first show unchaperoned at 13 and look how I turned out. :biggrin:
Good Lord. Um, PG, you might want to rethink the plan.
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When I was that age, usually one of my friend's parents would drop us off and my father would pick us up, or my father would do double duty. We had a spot across the street from the Providence Civic Center that we'd meet. Sure enough, when the place emptied out, there he would be standing there. This was 84/85, way before cell phones.
I could always count on my father and I know it's trivial (the concert thing), but it is one of my most valued memories of him.
(If that all sounds somber, he is still alive)
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That's cool that your dad would drive you to and/or from concerts. I'm not sure if it was because my parents were against them but still wanted me to be able to enjoy myself, or they were trying to teach me to take more responsibility myself, or whatever, but I was allowed to go to concerts, but every single time, it was 100% up to me to find a way there and back. Friend's parents, or a taxi, or a couple of times we ended up walking home. I could go, but they were not providing any transportation or other support. And it goes without saying that I bought the tickets myself. Of course, this was back in the 70's when concert tickets cost five dollars, but still. That was a week's lunch money at the time.
Also, back to the topic of pg's daughter going to see Panic!, let's all remember that things were different back in the day, and it's different still for boys than girls. I let my son and his friends go do stuff in junior high, but with my daughter, I need to a lot more information (as in the original post). She's 20 now, a junior in college and living in an apartment off campus with two other girls. So we did it (mostly). She's out in the world, fending for herself, hopefully doing as well as she is because of the way her mother and I prepared her for life. But she knows that she can call (or text) any time to ask us anything. And she does. It's not like you turn 18 and that's the end of parental support. I can't go back and live my life again, knowing everything I do now, but I can hopefully make things a little easier for my kids by sharing what I've learned. She's usually eager to listen to take any advice offerred. Our son, not so much. :p But what can you do?
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Thanks guys. Obviously, I have to talk with the wife about this, but I did want an objective assessment of whether I was way out of line. Obviously, back when I was 15, this would've been no big deal, but.....
Brother, I've DONE this. Exact same band, actually. My daughter went to the PATD show here in Hartford - I think Fallout Boy was the other band - with her friends, and it was exactly as you described. I dropped them off, picked them up, and stayed in the general area.
Look, it's not as if you can 100% rule out any bad things happening, but - and this depends on the kid, and I don't know your kid - in my situation, I found the more trust I gave, the more I got back in return. I just had to make it clear that "trust" doesn't mean "do whatever the f*** you want and don't bother me!" I'm more a stealth dad; I'm asking how the show was. I'm asking "what songs did you like". I'm taking an interest (that I don't really share, to be honest, though the guy from PATD sings a kick-ass version of Bohemian Rhapsody) and trying at least to make it a little harder for her to ditch the show at the front gate and sit in the parking lot all show.
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You know your daughter. Unless you're an idiot (which I don't think you are), you are a good judge of her character, character that you yourself have had a large part in building. Honor student and in the marching band, to me, are two big points in her favor. Marching band is a time commitment, and being an honor student means she has smarts as well. My guess is that she's more mature than most of her peers, and presumably that translates to having good judgement as well.
And let's face it, band kids in general are good kids. I was a band kid all through junior high and high school, and those were absolutely the best times, the times I look back on fondly when someone mentions "the happiest days of our lives" (which you never hear anymore, but whatever). We had a lot of fun, but it was all good clean fun.
A guy on my floor for my first couple years at Uconn was a band guy; they were fairly clean in terms of drugs and stuff but man oh man. Talk about sowing wild oats. To hear him tell it, the Uconn marching band circa the late '80's was a moving circus of sex. I think there were a significant number of high school "band nerds" that, well, found college to be their own personal "band camp". :) :) :)
This is an opportunity to show her that you trust her, trust her judgement, and trust her choice of friends. She will want to prove to you that this trust is not unwarranted. Deep down, most kids want to make their parents happy, impress them, show them how awesome they are. Yes, some will take the occasional opportunity to abuse this trust, even good kids. And unfortunately, if they manage to do that, and get away with it, then they've learned that they can get away with it, and if it turned out good (for them), then they're more likely to try it again. That's why you have to move slowly, take small steps. Follow up afterwards, too. The more she knows you care, the more she knows you really love her, and the more likely she'll want to make you proud and be a good girl.
I agree with this 100%, and thus my last paragraph above. I don't think you can really prevent all misdemeanors without also snuffing out some of the things that make our kids special, but like Orbert says I think you can send the message that they are not going to go unnoticed. I can't speak for anyone else, but that has led to a fairly decent relationship with my kid, and a sort of trust that we're going to allow her to find her wings as long as she doesn't try to fly off the reservation.
One other point: I don't know you well, but you do like music enough to waste a ton of time on a band fan-forum, and I know for me, music is a big part of my life. She sees the guitars around the house, she sees the CDs on the wall downstairs... for me to then put the kibosh on a concert is sort of a message in and of itself, and not a positive one. My ex was/is the stringent one too (unnecessarily so, I might add; her and her new husband are sort of trying to "fix past mistakes" by battening down the hatches with my daughter) and I told her that this is like driving a car; you let them do it, but with limits.
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Do step-daughters count? I guess they do.
I married her mother when the kid was 14 (but I've known the lass and big-brothered her since she was 8, being my wife my stage partner and close friend well before we fell in love) and one of the very first things I did when we moved together was buying her two concert tickets of her choice for her birthday. It was Green Day, and it slightly pained me, but that's not the point. Her mother wanted to kill me on the spot, and she may have been right. I drove her and her friend to the venue sharing my teenage concerts war stories and some honest advice , spent a couple hours watching a game inside a pub, and came back to pick'em up asking questions like a madman.
It was tough, but - imo - you've got to let them learn to fly before they have to fly.
EDIT: Typo Demon is strong today
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As the father of a 3 year old daughter, this thread makes me nervous for the future. :lol
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As the father of a 3 year old daughter, this thread makes me nervous for the future. :lol
And this subject isn't even top 10, in my humble opinion. We haven't even hinted at the biggest demon of all: social media.
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As the father of a 3 year old daughter, this thread makes me nervous for the future. :lol
And this subject isn't even top 10, in my humble opinion. We haven't even hinted at the biggest demon of all: social media.
Eh, it really scares me to think what the social media culture will look like in 10 years or so when my daughter is a teen.
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Thanks guys. Obviously, I have to talk with the wife about this, but I did want an objective assessment of whether I was way out of line. Obviously, back when I was 15, this would've been no big deal, but.....
Brother, I've DONE this. Exact same band, actually. My daughter went to the PATD show here in Hartford - I think Fallout Boy was the other band - with her friends, and it was exactly as you described. I dropped them off, picked them up, and stayed in the general area.
Look, it's not as if you can 100% rule out any bad things happening, but - and this depends on the kid, and I don't know your kid - in my situation, I found the more trust I gave, the more I got back in return. I just had to make it clear that "trust" doesn't mean "do whatever the f*** you want and don't bother me!" I'm more a stealth dad; I'm asking how the show was. I'm asking "what songs did you like". I'm taking an interest (that I don't really share, to be honest, though the guy from PATD sings a kick-ass version of Bohemian Rhapsody) and trying at least to make it a little harder for her to ditch the show at the front gate and sit in the parking lot all show.
Thanks. I had a feeling I could count on you for some wisdom here. And the whole talking about what interests her and taking some interest in it (which several have mentioned) is crucial.
Just to be clear, by the way, this isn't about me trusting or not trusting my kid. That's not an issue for me (or for the wife). I'm just making sure I'm not completely out of line think it's ok (i.e., safe) to let her do this without adult supervision. Part of my think has to do with the fact that the show will be at the Pond in Anaheim, so there are several very close places I can hang out. If the show were at Staples Center, I'd be ok with that too because it's part of a larger entertainment complex (although not as good an area overall). If the show were at the Forum in Inglewood, I probably wouldn't even consider this.
You know your daughter. Unless you're an idiot (which I don't think you are), you are a good judge of her character, character that you yourself have had a large part in building. Honor student and in the marching band, to me, are two big points in her favor. Marching band is a time commitment, and being an honor student means she has smarts as well. My guess is that she's more mature than most of her peers, and presumably that translates to having good judgement as well.
And let's face it, band kids in general are good kids. I was a band kid all through junior high and high school, and those were absolutely the best times, the times I look back on fondly when someone mentions "the happiest days of our lives" (which you never hear anymore, but whatever). We had a lot of fun, but it was all good clean fun.
A guy on my floor for my first couple years at Uconn was a band guy; they were fairly clean in terms of drugs and stuff but man oh man. Talk about sowing wild oats. To hear him tell it, the Uconn marching band circa the late '80's was a moving circus of sex. I think there were a significant number of high school "band nerds" that, well, found college to be their own personal "band camp". :) :) :)
Did I mention my kid plays flute.... sigh....
As the father of a 3 year old daughter, this thread makes me nervous for the future. :lol
And this subject isn't even top 10, in my humble opinion. We haven't even hinted at the biggest demon of all: social media.
Yup.
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Not a parent so I can't really... chime in.
But it does make me feel spoiled that in my teen years, I never had a "Chaperone" for a concert. Most of the concerts I went to were with my close friends and close enough for me to walk home from (or a 10 min drive for my mom / stepdad)... and / or I was there with my best friend and there was some form of parent there... but as a fan of the show, not just to supervise us.
This was in the mid 2000s. God I am young compared to some of y'all
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Thanks. I had a feeling I could count on you for some wisdom here. And the whole talking about what interests her and taking some interest in it (which several have mentioned) is crucial.
Just to be clear, by the way, this isn't about me trusting or not trusting my kid. That's not an issue for me (or for the wife). I'm just making sure I'm not completely out of line think it's ok (i.e., safe) to let her do this without adult supervision. Part of my think has to do with the fact that the show will be at the Pond in Anaheim, so there are several very close places I can hang out. If the show were at Staples Center, I'd be ok with that too because it's part of a larger entertainment complex (although not as good an area overall). If the show were at the Forum in Inglewood, I probably wouldn't even consider this.
Thank you for the kind words; it means a lot (sincerely).
I think I got you the first time though; it's still the same. The big venue here is the Xfinity Center in Hartford, and it's literally in the worst section of the City, albeit separated from the residential parts by a train yard and the highway. But still... Pearl Jam thanked (sarcastically, to be sure) the Hartford Police in their "Live On Two Legs" album because at their show on that tour, the police layered the lawn with tear gas (I was at that show and it was crazy). So I agree it's more about the circumstances than the kid, but I still sort of hang on the same advice. I'm not suggesting that we let our kids go buy crack on their own in the projects, but I also don't want her to live scared. To me it was a lesson in doing reasonable things in a way that is smart circa 2018 (lord knows, all I had to worry about was being sold a bogus ticket outside, or having someone boost my wallet in the crowd before the show).
Full disclosure though: I took her to see Kiss and Def Leppard at that same venue the summer before and while I didn't plan that on purpose, it gave me a means of talking her through the evening. "Hey, if you're going to hang in the parking lot, stick with the lower lot; if you're going to hang outside the venue, at least go through the ticket line and hang in the courtyard", that kind of thing.
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And then, at the other end of the spectrum, there's my son.
Might as well turn this into a generic Parenting thread. I think I'll go back and change the thread title (if I can).
My son is 26 years old and still lives at home with my wife and me, but there's a light at the end of the tunnel. He and some of his friends are preparing to move out of their respective homes and into a house together. This is a moment I've been looking forward to for 26 years.
So of course, my wife and I managed to get into an argument about it this morning while I was trying to leave for work. I see a kid moving out as a major milestone, probably the major milestone of parenting. Our job is to prepare them to be functioning adults, self-sufficient in all the important ways. Moving out, paying your own bills, managing your own finances, buying your own food, getting your ass out of bed and to work/school on time, basically doing all the things that Mommy and Daddy used to do, that is what makes you an adult. Not some arbitrary recognition of surviving 18 years on the planet. We had a job to do, a huge one, and we've done it. This is something to celebrate!
My wife sees this as a "loss" of some kind. It saddens her that her child will no longer be in her care. When he told her that he probably won't be in contact a whole lot, at least for the first couple of months, she didn't take it well. Why can't he call her once a week, just to let her know how he's doing? His sister does. Hell, at this point, he hasn't even shared the address, even though he knows it. He's told us the general geographic location, the neighborhood where the house is located. That's good enough for me. My wife wants to know exactly where he will be. Sorry dear, but he's 26. It is no longer any of your business exactly where he is at any particular time.
I told her that's it's completely normal. A young man striking out on his own has achieved independence. He no longer needs his parents to feed and clothe him or wipe his ass for him, so why should he call them for no reason? A young woman moving out, from what I can tell, faces more anxiety and uncertainty. Not just because the world is generally more dangerous for women, but the idea of doing everything by yourself is not necessarily a positive thing. Forgive the obvious sexism here, and yeah it's a generalization, but it is also generally true. That's why it's called a generalization. Because, in general, it is true. Guys want to be their own person, independent, lone wolves. Girls, not necessarily.
So anyway, I defended our son's right to not have to call his mommy once a week to "check in" with her, and maybe get together for holidays and birthdays and stuff, but otherwise live his life like... an adult! I don't call my dad once a week, and I didn't call my mom once a week back when she was alive. Wife pointed out that my sisters did and still do. She and her sister did. Did her brother? No. Did my brother? I don't have any brothers. Correct! So in our small sample pool, all the females called, and none of the males did.
But her family is weird and I'm a self-absorbed asshole. True, and true. But I still think it's perfectly normal, I would think it's part of the natural separation process, for a young man to establish some "distance" between himself and his parents, socially if not geographically, at least at first. Then after a while, you fall into the new version of the relationship, which is between adults who happen to be parent and child. This seems 100% natural and correct to me. She says it's not natural at all, that a child should always want to keep in contact with their parents. The examples we'd just gone over seconds earlier apparently have no bearing on that. I told her that it's different for guys. She told me to go to work. I told her to do some research.
And since I'm so certain of it, maybe I should do some research, too. But... I'm right, right?
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And since I'm so certain of it, maybe I should do some research, too. But... I'm right, right?
In general, yeah. But that's, like, a generalization, man.
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And since I'm so certain of it, maybe I should do some research, too. But... I'm right, right?
Wow, you're a self-absorbed asshole. But then again, her family is weird.
I'm kidding; my life sort of followed your track. I moved out and I WENT, all the way to California. I stayed in touch, but it wasn't as if every day before bed I'd call home.
I talk to my dad now about twice a week, but that's a frequency that has increased a lot since he retired and is now 80 and listening to Fox News all day. I think you have to let these things find their rhythm. At the end of the day, it's three adults, each with their own ideas on how to interrelate.
I know from dealing with my stepson, he grew up exponentially (and in a good way) when he moved out, and his relationship with his mom got even BETTER when he joined the Army and sort of put a little space in between. It was healthy for both.
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And then, at the other end of the spectrum, there's my son.
Your son sounds a little like me. I lived with my mother until I was 25 (my father died when I was young). I probably could have moved out a few years earlier, but it was a comfortable situation. I'm the youngest of five kids, so my mom didn't have any real detachment issues when I moved out. Of course, I brought my laundry for her to do on a weekly basis, so it wasn't like we didn't communicate.
As far as sons versus daughters, though, I think the issue is that -- as a GENERAL matter -- women/girls are FAR more inclined to get on the phone and just talk. Pretty much every guy I've ever known (myself included) calls for a specific purpose, accomplishes that purpose, and then hangs up. Women/girls on the other hand....
On my end, my son (16) is (at least at the moment) planning to enlist in the Air Force after he graduates high school. The argument I foresee happening is what we do with his bedroom once he moves out (after a deep cleaning and sterilization, of course).
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And then, at the other end of the spectrum, there's my son.
As far as sons versus daughters, though, I think the issue is that -- as a GENERAL matter -- women/girls are FAR more inclined to get on the phone and just talk. Pretty much every guy I've ever known (myself included) calls for a specific purpose, accomplishes that purpose, and then hangs up.
Exactly. And that's why, when she pointed out that my sisters do it, and she and her sister did it, I pointed out that I never did, neither did her brother (actually I asked, but I already knew the answer and thought it might carry more weight coming from her own mouth), and therefore I don't expect our son to do it.
I suppose I get it, really. It's not that she doesn't understand this, and deep down, she's gotta realize that he's not gonna call, but she's still sad about him moving out (and it probably doesn't help that I'm practically celebrating it already) and just doesn't want to face it. She's "losing" her little boy. The one who doesn't even talk to her now more than "What, you didn't get me anything?" when she comes home with some Taco Bell and his lazy ass has been upstairs playing video games instead of going out and getting his own damned food.
As much as I've looked forward to him moving out, I'm already looking forward to the point where our social dynamic has stabilized. I always look to nature, specifically other mammals, for how things "naturally" work, and there are countless examples. If the young males don't leave on their own, the mom or dad literally chase them off, physically attacking them if necessary. This manifests in humans as the fights that often precede separation. There will be tension, but it has to happen this way.
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And since I'm so certain of it, maybe I should do some research, too. But... I'm right, right?
You are right. And I stand behind you 100%. And nothing you said was sexist.
The "natural" thing for a young man to do is to want to leave the nest and create his own live. At 26 I wanted to left alone. As I got older I would stay in touch with family a little bit more, but at 26 I just wanted to live my own life, period. End of story. And when problems came up, I felt good about myself as a man when I was able to face those problems on my own and solve them as an independent adult.
Your son is lucky to have a father in his life. Many children today do not and I grew up without one. If I had someone like you in my corner growing up, I would have been much better off. I can tell you that.
To re-iterate, you are in the right and are exemplifying the qualities of a competent and loving father.
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Thanks.
Since I'm at work, it turns out that my "research" has (so far, and perhaps entirely) consisted of asking DTF, with some pretty leading questions. So confirmation bias, but since I was already pretty sure that that is how it works for guys, and that it is indeed different for girls, this works for me. :)
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I'm in my 30s and I call my Mom at least 2-3 times per week. It's good to check in with your parents, and I enjoy hearing about what they're doing, and they like hearing about my life. There's nothing "unmanly" about it. I usually wind up talking to my Dad when I call, too. It's rare that I actually seem them more than once every 1-2 months.
Frankly, not just playing Devil's advocate here, I'd be a little concerned if my offspring were moving away and refused to share his address or just provide even a cordial "yeah, of course I'll call". Sounds to me like there are possibly some unaddressed issues there. My Dad and my Brother have those kind of issues, which neither ever have addressed with each other. Must be tough to go on living so long wondering if everything's alright between you and someone you typically would care most about.
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Yeah, that would suck. But it's rarely a permanent situation. If kids come from an abusive home, then I wouldn't be surprised that most of them move out and never look back. Why would they seek contact with the one(s) they're trying to escape?
But in general, kids move out, establish their own lives, then fall into a "new" relationship with their parents; one of adults who happen to be related as parent and offspring, rather than the role of child and primary caregiver/caretaker (interesting how though two words mean essentially the same thing -- I've never noticed that before).
Our son has specifically mentioned that his friends who've moved out all say that their relationships with their parents improved after they moved, and that he looks forward to that. So do I. But as for not even saying he'll call, I completely understand. My wife has been, IMO, ridiculous about the whole thing, insisting that he keep in contact, wanting to come see the new place, all that. He is an adult and this is not what he wants, but she will not accept that. In time, he would come around. That's normal. But the more she pushes, the more she rags on him about it, the more inclined he is to push back, and I completely understand that. I'm sure he would have eventually given us his phone number and address; it simply doesn't make sense not to. But once he told us he and his buddies had found a place, one of the first things out of her mouth was "Okay, give us the address and phone number." Not a request, a demand. 100% the wrong approach, and she should have known that, having known the kid for 26 years. But she started right off with the demands, and it just set everything off on the wrong foot.
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Eek, yeah, that seems to be really overbearing, in that case, it's not surprise the reaction is what it is.
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I’m guessing when this thread dies that I’ll be resurrecting it in 6 years... my kid turns 8 at the end of the month...