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General => Archive => Political and Religious => Topic started by: AndyDT on December 15, 2011, 12:30:21 AM
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I read a book talking about physical limits before christian marriage. It quotes Paul about being "pure" and avoiding "sexual immorality". These seem very subjective.
I'm avoiding full sex with my girlfriend but surely lots of things are sexual? When are you supposed to stop? For example if you put your hand on her thigh or vice versa and she gets aroused that could easily be construed as sexual. Or if you hug her goodnight and you touch and become aroused that's sexual. Or hold hands etc.
The whole rule-based system seems subjective unless it's defined properly. Doesn't Genesis talk about becoming one with your wife? This seems to suggest the only thing that is not proper outside marriage is climaxing while having full intercourse with your partner.
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Just do her already.
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WHO THE FUCK CARES WHAT GENESIS SAYS?!!
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Despite what some people would have you believe, sex is an important part of a romantic relationship. Marriage is little more than an agreement to keep your romantic relationship going, ideally until you pass away together in old age on a country farm breeding German Shepherds or something.
So basically my belief is that you shouldn't agree to marry someone without having sex with them a couple of times...enough that you can say to yourself "Yeah, if I only ever have sex with this person for the rest of my life, that'll be okay." If you marry someone without sleeping with them, how would you know if you'll end up being compatible in bed? Having a spouse who can't satisfy you sexually is what leads to infidelity.
To summarize: it will benefit both of you and the longevity of your relationship if you have sex before marriage.
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If you want to do so, are capable of doing so, and would not feel morally incorrect for doing so, feel free to do so.
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WHO THE FUCK CARES WHAT GENESIS SAYS?!!
You know Rumborak means business when he doesn't sign his post.
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Despite what some people would have you believe, sex is an important part of a romantic relationship. Marriage is little more than an agreement to keep your romantic relationship going, ideally until you pass away together in old age on a country farm breeding German Shepherds or something.
So basically my belief is that you shouldn't agree to marry someone without having sex with them a couple of times...enough that you can say to yourself "Yeah, if I only ever have sex with this person for the rest of my life, that'll be okay." If you marry someone without sleeping with them, how would you know if you'll end up being compatible in bed? Having a spouse who can't satisfy you sexually is what leads to infidelity.
I have certainly dated girls on both sides of the spectrum, the ones you enjoy being in bed with, and ones where your mind totally drifts off while you're doing it because it almost feels like a chore.
And yes, you can ruin just about any relationship with continuous bad sex.
rumborak
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WHO THE FUCK CARES WHAT GENESIS SAYS?!!
You know Rumborak means business when he doesn't sign his post.
You goof :lol
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Well, it depends. In my case, I get all the sex I can before marriage (because I'll probably never marry) :yarr
Anyhow, I bet you'd like a serious answer. The only thing I can say is I commend you for being serious about it and wanting to 'do the right thing'. And that's all good and I hope you're a match made in heaven and you and her will stay together forever. If that's not the case though, let met just say this: once you get some, you're hooked. (if it's any good that is). Anyway, what was the question again? :huh:
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I'll answer as someone who did not have sex before being married, probably one of the few here. It was important for me to determine that my wife and I were sexually compatible in the sense that we were interested in it about the same amount. So we did plenty of "fooling around" to figure that kind of stuff out, but no actual intercourse. Being sexually compatible does not only include the actual act of sex. There are plenty of people out there who barely even kiss before marriage and manage to do just fine, so it really varies based on the couple. My recommendation would be to not try and over interpret mundane acts like holding hands, hugging, and a hand on the thigh as being sexual. After a couple of months, these acts will no longer seem sexual in the slightest, but may seem kind of exciting at first. The less sex or at least fooling around you have, the more you'll need to talk about your sexual appetites and whatnot as the relationship gets more serious.
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The no sex before marriage thing is just plain foolish.
To answer your question, I was always of the opinion that it meant no sex, as in actual sex. I've never heard of anything else being off limits. There's a difference between sex and sexual contact, and I don't think that latter is verboten in that biblical rule book you seem to subscribe to.
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Convince her that it's not sex if it's anal.
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Unfortunately, my girlfriend believes in no sex before marriage. On a good day, it mildly annoys me, and on a bad day, it really pisses me off. :lol
Funny how something can make so little sense to one person and so much to another.
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Fake edit: What Genowyn said.
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how much sex? all the sex.
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Honestly, you're better off having sex beforehand. Waiting until the night-of is a terrible idea, and will probably sour the whole wedding. Why? Because it just so happens that when two people who've never had sex before try to have sex with each other, there's an extremely high chance that it's not going to work out correctly, and even if it works, the chances of it being enjoyable for both participates are slim to none. If you wait until your wedding night to have sex, you will be sorely disappointed.
I guess to the most stoic of Christians, it doesn't really matter because the wedding night is all about breaking the seal and sowing your seed, but honestly I don't see too much satisfaction being gained from that. That's the real danger for people who try to keep their bedrooms too "Christian", in my opinion. Being sexually satisfied is put on the back-burner, and at worst not really considered important at all. In reality, there are few things more important to a healthy relationship.
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My dad was raised Catholic but stands by the belief that you have to "try on the shoe to see if it fits before buying".
So yeah.
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Re: How much "sex" before marriage?
Answer: Enough to wash your dog in the jacuzzi out back.
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Andy, not sure why you even bother citing to any biblical sources since it is obvious you view the Biblical texts as purely a set of rules and a work of philosophy. If that is how you view it, you are missing the point, and it doesn't make sense to try to pluck rules out of context and try to define precisely where the line is so you can get as close as possible without crossing it. Again, that misses the point. To sum up the Biblical perspective on sex: Any sexual contact outside marriage is sin. Any sex within marriage is awesome. Got it?
Honestly, you're better off having sex before hand.
Actually, I think you got the order wrong. I think most have hand before sex.
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Honestly, you're better off having sex before hand.
I'm bummed. I definitely started off having hand before sex. :sadpanda:
EDIT: OMG, you sneaky ninja commenter administrator mod dude, you!
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Beat you to it, cowboy.
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:rollin
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My wife and I did not have sex until we married. We were not virgins, but had chose to eliminate sex from the equation as we got to know each other and ultimately fell in love. We still engaged in physical interaction ....a lot of 'make out' sessions and what not...some heavy petting and although we didn't have actual sex we did have our moments where we gratified one another when the moments escalated.
I actually enjoyed the fact that we didn't have intercourse because knowing that was not going to happen immediately pulled all of the BS out of the mix that a guy uses to try and get laid. I found myself actually learning about her and not just learning how I could get her in bed.
It's already been mentioned here by plenty of people that they believe that no sex before marriage is dumb...and that you need to test the waters to even see if you guys are compatable. Just good examples of how we all are entitled to our opinions.
For us, it only enhanced our sexual relationship and I'd reccomend it to any couple who are in a serious commitment considering marriage. When you're old and gray and sex is no longer a significant part of your marriage...you'd better be sure of your compatability and that you're outlook on life is consistant beacuse that is what will tide you over and what provides life's happiness. If you are counting on sex to be the primary indicator of your marriage's happiness and your life's happiness for that matter....I would reconsider your reasoning behind getting married and perhaps maybe even re-evaluate what you deem important.
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The point isn't that sexual compatibility is most important, it obviously isn't. No amount of great sex will keep a couple that don't get along together. But it's still very important. If we say the importance is 60/40 (which some of you may consider generous in either direction), if the sex is bad that's still only 60% of a happy relationship :lol
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Just get the fucker over with.
(ba-dum cha!)
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What's the Biblical basis for no sex outside marriage, anyway? I know about the whole "don't spill the seed" thing, but don't plenty of churches (besides us Papists) have no problem with things like condom use?
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What's the Biblical basis for no sex outside marriage, anyway? I know about the whole "don't spill the seed" thing, but don't plenty of churches (besides us Papists) have no problem with things like condom use?
I don't really understand your question. Or the "whole 'don't spill the seed' thing," for that matter.
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I just looked it up. I was remembering these:
Gen 38:8-10 ESV Then Judah said to Onan, "Go in to your brother's wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother." (9) But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his. So whenever he went in to his brother's wife he would waste the semen on the ground, so as not to give offspring to his brother. (10) And what he did was wicked in the sight of the LORD, and he put him to death also.
Lev 15:16-18 ESV "If a man has an emission of semen, he shall bathe his whole body in water and be unclean until the evening. (17) And every garment and every skin on which the semen comes shall be washed with water and be unclean until the evening. (18) If a man lies with a woman and has an emission of semen, both of them shall bathe themselves in water and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:32 ESV This is the law for him who has a discharge and for him who has an emission of semen, becoming unclean thereby;
As far as my question goes... is it really that unclear?
What's the Biblical basis for forbidding sex outside marriage? I'm not playing the fool here-- I genuinely don't know. I know most churches consider it wrong, and I personally understand why it might not be a good idea, but I can't think of a passage that actually says, "thou shalt not have sex outside the institution of marriage" or anything like that. The only thing that remotely comes to mind are some of Paul's ravings about sex being evil but less so if it's controlled within wedlock.
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Not sure what the verses above have to do with anything. But:
What's the Biblical basis for forbidding sex outside marriage? I'm not playing the fool here-- I genuinely don't know. I know most churches consider it wrong, and I personally understand why it might not be a good idea, but I can't think of a passage that actually says, "thou shalt not have sex outside the institution of marriage" or anything like that. The only thing that remotely comes to mind are some of Paul's ravings about sex being evil but less so if it's controlled within wedlock.
When you say "what is the biblical basis" I'm not sure whether you are asking where the Bible says that sex outside marriage is sin, or if you are asking whether the Bible says why it is. That's where I'm unclear. As to where, here are the ones off the top of my head that say that fornication, homosexuality, and/or adultery (which, as far as I can tell, pretty much have it covered when it comes to sex outside marriage) are sin: Matt 15:18-20, Mark 7:21, Rom 1: 21-32, 1 Cor 6:8-10, 2 Cor 12:20-21, Gal 5:18-20, Eph 5:2-6, Col 3:4-6, 1 Tim 1:9-11, Heb 13:3-5, Rev 21:5-8.
You will notice that a lot of those passages are Paul's writings. However, he does not anywhere say that "sex is evil, but it is less evil if in marriage." Nothing of the sort. He (like Jesus) only condemns sex as a sin outside of marriage.
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Yeah, I don't want to be disrespectful to anyone's beliefs, but I've always thought that the "no sex before marriage" thing was kind of misguided. Sex is a huge part of a healthy marriage and to go into a life-long commitment not knowing if you and your partner are 100% compatible, in my view, is......unwise.
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I'm with Kirk....
also sex is key to happiness... it is already in the equation.... hard to dismiss it... at least for some....
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I saved myself for my wedding night because of my faith. I was 27. I had girlfriends that would have gone along with sex in high school and college if I had pushed it, but I was committed to staying a virgin. Even though my wife had already been married previously (twice in fact), I was able to give her a gift that was very special on our wedding night. My virginity. Of course then she had to teach me what to do but that was the fun part. ;D
We're still happily married 14 years later and still committed to spending the rest of our lives together for better and for worse. I'm proof that you don't have to have sex before marriage for it to be successful.
One way that I look at it is if you can fall in love with someone and be willing to live with them the rest of your life without the emotional bond of sex, then it will more than likely work. The love with be more based on compatibility rather than physical attachments and false feelings of emotional bonds.
Of course faith plays a HUGE role in our marriage and that is the core that keeps us together. But I can say for certain that I knew exactly who I was marrying and she was my best friend. We're still best friends. Sex before becoming best friends would have likely hindered building that best friend aspect of our relationship.
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Sex before becoming best friends would have likely hindered building that best friend aspect of our relationship.
Why?
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Sex is a huge part of a healthy marriage
also sex is key to happiness...
I couldn't agree more. And, for what it's worth, the Biblical view is also in complete agreement. The only disagreement is with when it is to occur. Frankly, I don't understand the whole "you need to make sure you're compatible in that department" argument. Um...IMO, if you don't feel you are compatible with someone in that department, (1) I think you're doing it wrong, (2) it's not hard to learn to get compatible, and (3) I think you're doing it wrong. Also, I think you're doing it wrong. And as Durg mentioned, the learning is a lot of the fun. :)
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Sex before becoming best friends would have likely hindered building that best friend aspect of our relationship.
Why?
Because the relationship would have become focused on the sex and not on learning about who we REALLY are. Once the sex starts the emotional bonds are so overwhelming (as God intended it) that it becomes hard to see logically that, for example, I may not be able to live with this person the rest of my life (even though the sex it great).
Of course this is all theory for me since I didn't go about it this way. But beauty fades and passion wanes and if you don't already love them then the relationship is going to get exposed when things get tough. And they always do.
When I was young, it was described to me like this:
Building a relationship is like building a tower of blocks (think Jenga). As the relationship grows the blocks become stacked up higher and wider. Sex then is the glue that is poured on top of it all to hold it together. It's the icing on the cake so to speak.
Furthermore, if the relationship fails the blocks have to be broken apart. But since there is dried glue, the edges are jagged and doesn't fit together as well to new blocks. They just don't stack up right.
I've used this analogy to help me view sex in a more mature way then just wanting to get my rocks off cause she's hot.
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I can't even imagine waiting till marriage to have sex with someone. I mean part of that might be that I don't plan to run into marriage quickly like many do, but in general I just don't find any good reasons not to have sex beforehand.
But in answer to your question Andy, I don't think there is much of a solid answer.
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Sex before becoming best friends would have likely hindered building that best friend aspect of our relationship.
Why?
Because the relationship would have become focused on the sex and not on learning about who we REALLY are. Once the sex starts the emotional bonds are so overwhelming (as God intended it) that it becomes hard to see logically that, for example, I may not be able to live with this person the rest of my life (even though the sex it great).
Of course this is all theory for me since I didn't go about it this way. But beauty fades and passion wanes and if you don't already love them then the relationship is going to get exposed when things get tough. And they always do.
When I was young, it was described to me like this:
Building a relationship is like building a tower of blocks (think Jenga). As the relationship grows the blocks become stacked up higher and wider. Sex then is the glue that is poured on top of it all to hold it together. It's the icing on the cake so to speak.
Furthermore, if the relationship fails the blocks have to be broken apart. But since there is dried glue, the edges are jagged and doesn't fit together as well to new blocks. They just don't stack up right.
I've used this analogy to help me view sex in a more mature way then just wanting to get my rocks off cause she's hot.
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think this makes much sense to people who aren't necessarily entering into all relationships with the goal of getting married one day.
And I don't think, at least in my experience, sex has that much power over a relationship. It definitely can in the short term, but if you're not compatible in any other way those signs should show themselves far before any talk about marriage comes into the equation.
Does anyone except the most desperate stay with a person he can't stand just because the sex is good?
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in general I just don't find any good reasons not to have sex beforehand.
STDs and unwanted pregnancy are extremely common and have lifelong consequences for those involved. All for a little bit of temporary pleasure. We live in an age where contraception, abortion and medical treatments are all commonplace and fairly easy to obtain. Yet almost half of babies are born to unwed mothers, over 1 million unwanted pregnancies are terminated every year (some of them to married couples, but probably not a huge percentage) and a significant subset of the population has an STD. To me, these are very large reasons to wait until marriage. You can try to be safe, yet these things still happen on a very regular basis.
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I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think this makes much sense to people who aren't necessarily entering into all relationships with the goal of getting married one day.
Yeah. I guess my world view is just so different. I always felt that the whole reason to date and enter relationships is to determine if that person is a potential marriage partner. Of course it wasn't as rigid for me as that last sentence makes it sound but I had several very long relationships in high school and college with girls where it was always in the back of my mind. You know the question, "is this the one"? I've never just had a romantic relationship with a girl that I knew marriage was not going to be a possibility.
Of course if I was looking for sex maybe I would have. But I wanted to stay a virgin so.... different world view.
And I don't think, at least in my experience, sex has that much power over a relationship. It definitely can in the short term, but if you're not compatible in any other way those signs should show themselves far before any talk about marriage comes into the equation.
I have no idea. I've only had sex with one person. My wife.
Does anyone except the most desperate stay with a person he can't stand just because the sex is good?
Of course not, but my point is that the sex covers up or blinds people from seeing the real compatibility problems until it's too late. And by that point there's a significant emotional attachment that causes so much heartache and pain when the breakup inevitably has to happen. It's even worse when people realize this after their married and put kids in the middle of it.
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Convince her that it's not sex if it's anal.
Excellent advice is excellent.
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in general I just don't find any good reasons not to have sex beforehand.
STDs and unwanted pregnancy are extremely common and have lifelong consequences for those involved. All for a little bit of temporary pleasure. We live in an age where contraception, abortion and medical treatments are all commonplace and fairly easy to obtain. Yet almost half of babies are born to unwed mothers, over 1 million unwanted pregnancies are terminated every year (some of them to married couples, but probably not a huge percentage) and a significant subset of the population has an STD. To me, these are very large reasons to wait until marriage. You can try to be safe, yet these things still happen on a very regular basis.
Huh? Why are the only options 'sex with VD-ridden strangers' and 'wait until marriage'? It's perfectly possible and in fact common to be in a healthy and safe sexual relationship with a partner you're not married too.
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People still wait for marriage to have sex?
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Huh? Why are the only options 'sex with VD-ridden strangers' and 'wait until marriage'? It's perfectly possible and in fact common to be in a healthy and safe sexual relationship with a partner you're not married too.
Where did you get that from my post? I said that no matter how safe you are, you risk getting pregnant or catching an STD. Despite the fact that there is a ton of "healthy and safe" sex going on, they result in a hell of a lot of unwanted pregnancies and STDs. All I was doing was presenting Nick with a good reason to wait, since he didn't see any.
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Huh? Why are the only options 'sex with VD-ridden strangers' and 'wait until marriage'? It's perfectly possible and in fact common to be in a healthy and safe sexual relationship with a partner you're not married too.
Where did you get that from my post? I said that no matter how safe you are, you risk getting pregnant or catching an STD. Despite the fact that there is a ton of "healthy and safe" sex going on, they result in a hell of a lot of unwanted pregnancies and STDs. All I was doing was presenting Nick with a good reason to wait, since he didn't see any.
Premarital sex doesn't result in unwanted pregnancies and STDs, random sex with strangers does (sometimes). Sex with a partner you're in a relationship with is no different than sex with your spouse as far as the risks go.
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For those saying that sex before marriage helps find that you're compatible..
Really? So, you're going to use sex as a basis for it? You can't get married based on knowing each other and all other reason that aren't sex? Isn't the point of being in a relationship about growing as people as a couple? So what if the sex SUCKS at first if you chose to wait. You're fucking married right now. Learn your spouses love language. Learn what pleases them. Show some fucking interest in them before you look at "oh, she's a bad fuck. I'll try a different one." Not only will that make the sex more awesome when you do have it, it'll also be much more intimate and special because you took the time to focus on HER rather than your dick.
Sorry, rumborak's first post and subsequent posts just annoyed the shit out of me. KNH brought up valid points without being an ass towards what people believe.
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that's actually the first thing i do when i meet a woman
stick my dick in her to make sure it feels right
if not
(https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1315/4731133923_405944825f_o.png)
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that's actually the first thing i do when i meet a woman
stick my dick in her to make sure it feels right
if not
(https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1315/4731133923_405944825f_o.png)
Finally someone is making sense here.
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that's actually the first thing i do when i meet a woman
stick my dick it to make sure it feels right
if not
(https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1315/4731133923_405944825f_o.png)
I figured that was the case for you. :P
I just read some of these posts and it's like..."really?" I was a bit annoyed when I posted, but I don't feel like editing it at all because that's what I truly believe. I'm in agreement with Bosk and Durg. My fiancée and I have had sex numerous times and we wished we would have waited. But it's been a few years since we have last had sex and we're excited to get married. She's my absolute best friend and so what if we don't sex it up all the time? That's not why I chose to be with her.
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That's not why I chose to be with her.
what
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that's actually the first thing i do when i meet a woman
stick my dick in her to make sure it feels right
if not
(https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1315/4731133923_405944825f_o.png)
that happens to be the same method I use for choosing the right turkey or apple pie at Thanksgiving.
weird
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That's not why I chose to be with her.
what
Sex is not the reason why I chose to be with my fiancee
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Premarital sex doesn't result in unwanted pregnancies and STDs, random sex with strangers does (sometimes).
I'll go out on a limb an assume that you're not actually meaning to say that couples in relationships who have sex before marriage never get pregnant or spread STDs. I know several people who would tell you otherwise from personal experience. It's not only random hook-ups that spread disease and get people pregnant.
Sex with a partner you're in a relationship with is no different than sex with your spouse as far as the risks go.
Sure, the risks are the same, but how many people want to have a baby with their college or high school girlfriend? How many people want to have a child with their wife? Babies in marriages are generally wanted, babies pre-marriage generally are not (obviously not always). STDs would not even be an issue if you waited for marriage.
I'm unsure what you're trying to prove. Pre-marital sex has potential lifelong consequences that may tie you to a person that you have no intention of being tied to long term (having a kid) or cause you to have health issues that you could spread to future partners (STDs). Are you actually trying to argue otherwise?
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For those saying that sex before marriage helps find that you're compatible..
Really? So, you're going to use sex as a basis for it? You can't get married based on knowing each other and all other reason that aren't sex? Isn't the point of being in a relationship about growing as people as a couple? So what if the sex SUCKS at first if you chose to wait. You're fucking married right now. Learn your spouses love language. Learn what pleases them. Show some fucking interest in them before you look at "oh, she's a bad fuck. I'll try a different one." Not only will that make the sex more awesome when you do have it, it'll also be much more intimate and special because you took the time to focus on HER rather than your dick.
Sorry, rumborak's first post and subsequent posts just annoyed the shit out of me. KNH brought up valid points without being an ass towards what people believe.
It's not about whether or not she's any good. What if she discovers that she hates sex? What if she has a grossly deformed snapper? What if she has repressed memories of being gang-probed by aliens and cant get it on without bursting into tears? Plenty of people wait, and plenty of people also find out that their new spouse has no interest in getting laid, and the result is a crappy marriage. "But we were best friends!!!"
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For those saying that sex before marriage helps find that you're compatible..
Really? So, you're going to use sex as a basis for it? You can't get married based on knowing each other and all other reason that aren't sex? Isn't the point of being in a relationship about growing as people as a couple? So what if the sex SUCKS at first if you chose to wait. You're fucking married right now. Learn your spouses love language. Learn what pleases them. Show some fucking interest in them before you look at "oh, she's a bad fuck. I'll try a different one." Not only will that make the sex more awesome when you do have it, it'll also be much more intimate and special because you took the time to focus on HER rather than your dick.
Sorry, rumborak's first post and subsequent posts just annoyed the shit out of me. KNH brought up valid points without being an ass towards what people believe.
It's not about whether or not she's any good. What if she discovers that she hates sex? What if she has a grossly deformed snapper? What if she has repressed memories of being gang-probed by aliens and cant get it on without bursting into tears? Plenty of people wait, and plenty of people also find out that their new spouse has no interest in getting laid, and the result is a crappy marriage. "But we were best friends!!!"
I guess I understand that, but that is most certainly the exception.
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I will never get married. But even if that was the case; Sex everyday!!! :D
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my wife and I had even decided to wait to kiss until we were engaged (needless to say, it was a short dating period :lol)
one of the benefits is it didn't cloud our relationship with high emotions.
we were married within two months from our first date and we are in our 22nd year of marriage, and we are extremely happy
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For those saying that sex before marriage helps find that you're compatible..
Really? So, you're going to use sex as a basis for it? You can't get married based on knowing each other and all other reason that aren't sex? Isn't the point of being in a relationship about growing as people as a couple? So what if the sex SUCKS at first if you chose to wait. You're fucking married right now. Learn your spouses love language. Learn what pleases them. Show some fucking interest in them before you look at "oh, she's a bad fuck. I'll try a different one." Not only will that make the sex more awesome when you do have it, it'll also be much more intimate and special because you took the time to focus on HER rather than your dick.
Jesus, way to completely miss the point Snapple. We're talking about sexual compatibility, not 'being a good fuck'. From personal experience, I can tell you that's not something you can determine just by being together. I dated my first girlfriend for almost three years before we had sex. She was my best friend, smart, funny, super hot, the works. We started having sex, but even after numerous times and communication it simply never clicked for me. She was totally into it, and I wasn't - the imbalance grew, and coupled with a few other major things, we drifted apart and broke up a while later. It wasn't because she was a 'bad fuck', it was because that connection you get when you have sex with the person you love simply wasn't there for me. Had we stuck it out until we got married it would have been very, very bad.
Yes, we were best friends, but that has nothing to do with how you get along in the sack.
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Plenty of people wait, and plenty of people also find out that their new spouse has no interest in getting laid, and the result is a crappy marriage. "But we were best friends!!!"
There are plenty of women who become completely uninterested in sex after they get married even though they were doing it before, too.
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For those saying that sex before marriage helps find that you're compatible..
Really? So, you're going to use sex as a basis for it? You can't get married based on knowing each other and all other reason that aren't sex? Isn't the point of being in a relationship about growing as people as a couple? So what if the sex SUCKS at first if you chose to wait. You're fucking married right now. Learn your spouses love language. Learn what pleases them. Show some fucking interest in them before you look at "oh, she's a bad fuck. I'll try a different one." Not only will that make the sex more awesome when you do have it, it'll also be much more intimate and special because you took the time to focus on HER rather than your dick.
Jesus, way to completely miss the point Snapple. We're talking about sexual compatibility, not 'being a good fuck'. From personal experience, I can tell you that's not something you can determine just by being together. I dated my first girlfriend for almost three years before we had sex. She was my best friend, smart, funny, super hot, the works. We started having sex, but even after numerous times and communication it simply never clicked for me. She was totally into it, and I wasn't - the imbalance grew, and coupled with a few other major things, we drifted apart and broke up a while later. It wasn't because she was a 'bad fuck', it was because that connection you get when you have sex with the person you love simply wasn't there for me. Had we stuck it out until we got married it would have been very, very bad.
Yes, we were best friends, but that has nothing to do with how you get along in the sack.
Alright, but would you divorce your wife if that happened after you got married? Or would you work on it? That's the point I'm making.
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but the point everyone else is making is that you would have done it with your wife by then, so you wouldn't have to resort to divorce in such a situation
(situation here meaning what Sigz alluded to; an imbalance leading to alienation)
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For those saying that sex before marriage helps find that you're compatible..
Really? So, you're going to use sex as a basis for it? You can't get married based on knowing each other and all other reason that aren't sex? Isn't the point of being in a relationship about growing as people as a couple? So what if the sex SUCKS at first if you chose to wait. You're fucking married right now. Learn your spouses love language. Learn what pleases them. Show some fucking interest in them before you look at "oh, she's a bad fuck. I'll try a different one." Not only will that make the sex more awesome when you do have it, it'll also be much more intimate and special because you took the time to focus on HER rather than your dick.
Sorry, rumborak's first post and subsequent posts just annoyed the shit out of me. KNH brought up valid points without being an ass towards what people believe.
It's not about whether or not she's any good. What if she discovers that she hates sex? What if she has a grossly deformed snapper? What if she has repressed memories of being gang-probed by aliens and cant get it on without bursting into tears? Plenty of people wait, and plenty of people also find out that their new spouse has no interest in getting laid, and the result is a crappy marriage. "But we were best friends!!!"
I love it when people think proving the exception disproves the rule.
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but the point everyone else is making is that you would have done it with your wife by then, so you wouldn't have to resort to divorce in such a situation
(situation here meaning what Sigz alluded to; an imbalance leading to alienation)
I'm saying, if you had waited until you got married and that happened, would you divorce your wife or work on it?
there are very good reasons why people get divorced, and I understand why people do. But I'm willing to bet a lot of people also are just like "this isn't what i was expecting" without lifting a finger to work on the relationship and quit focusing on themselves. If your spouse drives you completely nuts and holds you at knifepoint every night and shit like that, okay, I get it.
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I'm unsure what you're trying to prove. Pre-marital sex has potential lifelong consequences that may tie you to a person that you have no intention of being tied to long term (having a kid) or cause you to have health issues that you could spread to future partners (STDs). Are you actually trying to argue otherwise?
It's not pre-marital sex, it's just sex in general that can have life-altering consequences. Just because you're married doesn't mean you want or are ready for a child, and just because you're married doesn't mean your spouse isn't going to cheat on you and give you an STD. If you're in a committed relationship, it doesn't matter whether you're married or not. Why is it that it's not acceptable to fuck your girlfriend of five years, but it's perfectly fine the second you repeat a few lines in a church?
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For those saying that sex before marriage helps find that you're compatible..
Really? So, you're going to use sex as a basis for it? You can't get married based on knowing each other and all other reason that aren't sex? Isn't the point of being in a relationship about growing as people as a couple? So what if the sex SUCKS at first if you chose to wait. You're fucking married right now. Learn your spouses love language. Learn what pleases them. Show some fucking interest in them before you look at "oh, she's a bad fuck. I'll try a different one." Not only will that make the sex more awesome when you do have it, it'll also be much more intimate and special because you took the time to focus on HER rather than your dick.
Sorry, rumborak's first post and subsequent posts just annoyed the shit out of me. KNH brought up valid points without being an ass towards what people believe.
It's not about whether or not she's any good. What if she discovers that she hates sex? What if she has a grossly deformed snapper? What if she has repressed memories of being gang-probed by aliens and cant get it on without bursting into tears? Plenty of people wait, and plenty of people also find out that their new spouse has no interest in getting laid, and the result is a crappy marriage. "But we were best friends!!!"
I love it when people think proving the exception disproves the rule.
That makes no sense as there was no rule I was trying to prove or disprove. He threw out a theory and I pointed out a couple of issues with it.
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that's actually the first thing i do when i meet a woman
stick my dick in her to make sure it feels right
if not
(https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1315/4731133923_405944825f_o.png)
that happens to be the same method I use for choosing the right turkey or apple pie at Thanksgiving.
weird
Really? What do your guests say about having dick holes in their apple pie?
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It's not pre-marital sex, it's just sex in general that can have life-altering consequences.
Sure, but kids are generally wanted in a marriage and not wanted in an unmarried couple. Obviously there are exceptions. I get the point you're trying to make, but I disagree that the risks are the same in and out of marriage. If everyone waited for marriage, there would be millions fewer unwanted pregnancies and virtually no STDs. I'm not saying you have to wait if you don't want to. I'm just saying that there is a downside. If you're willing to risk it, then that's fine for you.
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The ones that are great in bed are the nuts jobs you don't want to marry but you don't want to marry a corpse so there is a happy medium.
For those who want to wait. I tip my hat to you. I didn't but if both argee to wait, why should I care?
The real question my wife wanted to know was, could I do dishes and fold laundry and provide. Girls got to have her priorities.
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For those saying that sex before marriage helps find that you're compatible..
Really?
Sexually compatible. Not just "compatible." There's a difference.
So, you're going to use sex as a basis for it? You can't get married based on knowing each other and all other reason that aren't sex?
I can only speak for myself, but there were plenty of women I had sex with that I am 100% unequivocally positive that had I married them we would not have stayed married, largely due to their inadequacies in terms of sexual prowess and abilities. We were not then and likely would never have become compatible. They went their ways I went mine, and we all lived happily ever after.
Isn't the point of being in a relationship about growing as people as a couple?
Sure, that's one of the points. I'd agree with that.
So what if the sex SUCKS at first if you chose to wait. You're fucking married right now. Learn your spouses love language. Learn what pleases them. Show some fucking interest in them before you look at "oh, she's a bad fuck. I'll try a different one." Not only will that make the sex more awesome when you do have it, it'll also be much more intimate and special because you took the time to focus on HER rather than your dick.
uh, I'll ignore the vulgar and crude language and just say that having been with quite a few women in my day prior to my wife, I can say with 100% certainty that there were several of them that were just not good enough at sex for me to be interested in establishing a life-long bond with them in the hopes that they'd improve. That's a big gamble that I just wasn't willing to make. It had nothing to do with my "dick" and everything to do with me wanting to find a partner that I was 100% compatible with in every conceivable way, and the good news is: I FOUND HER! And get this: I lived with my current wife without being married to her for almost as long as we've now been married. We met in 1989, moved in together not long after, and even separated for a while, then got back together and finally in 2000 we were married. And contrary to what some are writing in this thread, my wife and I have an amazingly close relationship. She is everything to me and I know she feels the same way about me. All this and we had sex before marriage, and lived "in sin" for close to a decade without ever getting married.
KNH brought up valid points without being an ass towards what people believe.
:) I think "no sex before marriage" is pretty old fashioned and I know that I saw a poll recently that showed that only about 20% of adults go into their first marriage as virgins. A LOT of marriages end because of sexual incompatibility. I get that some people have beliefs that command that they refrain prior to marriage. I guess it's up to each individual to search their heart for what is right for them. I know that for me and my wife our sex life has always been about the intimacy and how much closer to each other it makes us feel, even before we were married.
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in general I just don't find any good reasons not to have sex beforehand.
STDs and unwanted pregnancy are extremely common and have lifelong consequences for those involved. All for a little bit of temporary pleasure. We live in an age where contraception, abortion and medical treatments are all commonplace and fairly easy to obtain. Yet almost half of babies are born to unwed mothers, over 1 million unwanted pregnancies are terminated every year (some of them to married couples, but probably not a huge percentage) and a significant subset of the population has an STD. To me, these are very large reasons to wait until marriage. You can try to be safe, yet these things still happen on a very regular basis.
Huh? Why are the only options 'sex with VD-ridden strangers' and 'wait until marriage'? It's perfectly possible and in fact common to be in a healthy and safe sexual relationship with a partner you're not married too.
This.
Huh? Why are the only options 'sex with VD-ridden strangers' and 'wait until marriage'? It's perfectly possible and in fact common to be in a healthy and safe sexual relationship with a partner you're not married too.
Where did you get that from my post? I said that no matter how safe you are, you risk getting pregnant or catching an STD. Despite the fact that there is a ton of "healthy and safe" sex going on, they result in a hell of a lot of unwanted pregnancies and STDs. All I was doing was presenting Nick with a good reason to wait, since he didn't see any.
Premarital sex doesn't result in unwanted pregnancies and STDs, random sex with strangers does (sometimes). Sex with a partner you're in a relationship with is no different than sex with your spouse as far as the risks go.
And this.
I'm not going around looking to put my unprotected penis into anything that moves. If you're safe and reasonable I see no extra risk in having sex before or after marriage.
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[A lot of stuff between KNH and snapple]
Even though I disagree with much of your position [ :eyebrows: Get it? I said "position." ], good post.
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[A lot of stuff between KNH and snapple]
Even though I disagree with much of your position [ :eyebrows: Get it? I said "position." ], good post.
Yeah I read it and said "fuck it, I'll play Skryim". Barry is a very smart guy. I always think "just agree to disagree"
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fuck it, I'll play Skryim
My life in one sentence.
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The greater point here is, can you make it work despite not clicking in bed? Yes, of course, you can shoehorn just about anything in, including my dick into her.... I digress.
The question is, why set yourself up for a potentially uphill battle in terms of saving your overall relationship, when you can upfront clear out that hurdle and find someone you're sexually compatible with?
I can definitely say of one girl I've been together with that I fucking hated sex with her. She was a great personality and yes, I could have made it work. But later I found a girl that, lo and behold, I clicked both physically and mentally.
Are you suggesting I rather should have stuck it out with the first girl?
rumborak
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rumborak, what do you do for a living again?
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Software research. Why?
rumborak
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Software research. Why?
rumborak
Because, as I suspected, that admission pretty much proves that you've never even had sex, so you aren't qualified to post on the subject.
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Damn. DAMN! How could I walk that easily into a trap like that?!
Ok, I was actually talking about various models of Fleshlights. There was one model that I just hated, totally chafed my dick.
rumborak
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:rollin
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Damn. DAMN! How could I walk that easily into a trap like that?!
Ok, I was actually talking about various models of Fleshlights. There was one model that I just hated, totally chafed my dick.
rumborak
:blush I've been there, bro.
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When you say "what is the biblical basis" I'm not sure whether you are asking where the Bible says that sex outside marriage is sin, or if you are asking whether the Bible says why it is. That's where I'm unclear. As to where, here are the ones off the top of my head that say that fornication, homosexuality, and/or adultery (which, as far as I can tell, pretty much have it covered when it comes to sex outside marriage) are sin: Matt 15:18-20, Mark 7:21, Rom 1: 21-32, 1 Cor 6:8-10, 2 Cor 12:20-21, Gal 5:18-20, Eph 5:2-6, Col 3:4-6, 1 Tim 1:9-11, Heb 13:3-5, Rev 21:5-8.
You will notice that a lot of those passages are Paul's writings. However, he does not anywhere say that "sex is evil, but it is less evil if in marriage." Nothing of the sort. He (like Jesus) only condemns sex as a sin outside of marriage.
Ah, thanks.
Corinthians 7 is what I was thinking of:
7:1 Now with regard to the issues you wrote about: It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man should have relations with his own wife and each woman with her own husband. 3 A husband should give to his wife her sexual rights, and likewise a wife to her husband. 4 It is not the wife who has the rights to her own body, but the husband. In the same way, it is not the husband who has the rights to his own body, but the wife. 5 Do not deprive each other, except by mutual agreement for a specified time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then resume your relationship, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that everyone was as I am. But each has his own gift from God, one this way, another that.
I mean, Paul really just sounds like he's being an overbearing jerk about the whole thing, but that passage seems to have a big impact on the way a lot of Christians look at sex.
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I'm not going around looking to put my unprotected penis into anything that moves. If you're safe and reasonable I see no extra risk in having sex before or after marriage.
So you can honestly say that it's no bigger of a deal if you accidentally get your girlfriend pregnant (especially if it wasn't a serious relationship) next week than if I accidentally get my wife pregnant next week? I understand that the likelihood of that happening is about the same, but the stakes are so much higher when you're not married. Anyway, either I've been misunderstood or you guys really don't see the difference between knocking up a girl you're dating and getting your wife pregnant.
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No, I think it's more that you can't see us weighing the possible danger of knocking up a fling being much lower than the misery of spending one's life together with a dysfunctional sex life. If you take sensible precautions (pill, condoms) the danger of knocking her up accidentally is plain negligible.
6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that everyone was as I am. But each has his own gift from God, one this way, another that.
Paul must have been one hell of an unpleasant character :lol
I know he's saying this because he was abstinent whereas people in his congregation remained couples, but still, jeez.
rumborak
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So you can honestly say that it's no bigger of a deal if you accidentally get your girlfriend pregnant (especially if it wasn't a serious relationship) next week than if I accidentally get my wife pregnant next week? I understand that the likelihood of that happening is about the same, but the stakes are so much higher when you're not married. Anyway, either I've been misunderstood or you guys really don't see the difference between knocking up a girl you're dating and getting your wife pregnant.
but what the point the others are making is, "what difference is there between pre-marital sex with someone you've been in a relationship with for years, as opposed to doing it with your wife, when the only difference is you've made a couple pledges to your wife in a church?"
especially considering that those vows you make in holy matrimony are the same vows non-married couples make to each other when they've been together that long, but the difference is they're unspoken
plus, the whole getting married before you can have sex thing is essentially all hypocrisy, because I know a hell of a lot of people who've gotten married so they didn't have a bastard child
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Compatibility shmompatibility. I could be compatible with a warm water balloon if
I was awake the mood struck me right.
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No, I think it's more that you can't see us weighing the possible danger of knocking up a fling being much lower than the misery of spending one's life together with a dysfunctional sex life. If you take sensible precautions (pill, condoms) the danger of knocking her up accidentally is plain negligible.
rumborak
I was strictly talking about risks of pregnancy and STDs, not relationship risks, so I guess perhaps that's where I was missing something if that's indeed what they were referring to. Neither of them ever mentioned relationship risks in responses to my posts.
These quotes in particular just seem flat out wrong to me (especially the first):
Premarital sex doesn't result in unwanted pregnancies and STDs
If you're safe and reasonable I see no extra risk in having sex before or after marriage.
but what the point the others are making is, "what difference is there between pre-marital sex with someone you've been in a relationship with for years, as opposed to doing it with your wife, when the only difference is you've made a couple pledges to your wife in a church?"
The sex itself it not different, I agree. The consequences of unintended pregnancy are hugely different between a person you intend to spend your life with versus someone you don't necessarily see yourself with long term (or who you've only been dating a short while). People who intend to spend their life together but never get married are different and basically no different than a married couple, but that's not who I was talking about.
Anyway... this has gone on far longer than I intended it to. There's obviously a bit of difference between what I'm meaning and what you all are meaning.
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If you don't want someone to get shot, don't take the gun out of the holster- what my dad said to my brother when his wife got pregnant even though she was on the pill.
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Solely relying on the pill is rather dangerous indeed. It doesn't protect against STDs, and there's several things that compromise its efficacy.
rumborak
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Solely relying on the pill is rather dangerous indeed. It doesn't protect against STDs, and there's several things that compromise its efficacy.
rumborak
like too many penises
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Or antibiotics.
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My girlfriend and I are waiting. Neither of us have had sex, and while we certainly look forward to it once we're married, neither of us regrets waiting.
I always wonder about the idea that sexual compatibility is so vital. If my girlfriend and I have had sex before our wedding, and something fundamentally changes about my ability to have sex after our wedding, or the methods I would use (impotence, loss of limbs, etc.), the compatibility thing becomes irrelevant.
Ultimately, it's irrelevant anyway. Sex is an important part of a relationship, but as a Christian, I believe it is an expression of love based on entirely different premises. For me, it is an effect, not a cause, of a solid marriage. There are plenty of people for whom this works. I see no reason why sex before marriage should be necessary at all.
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"For me, it is an effect, not a cause, of a solid marriage."
well put, 7thHanyou
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You know, I'm gonna throw a question out there for the Christians/otherwise dedicated waiters in the thread and if no-one answers it, that's okay, but if someone does, cool.
So, you restrain yourself from going too far into the realm of sexual contact with that person for the whole "dating" period, okay, hugging, kissing, maybe a bit of touching, but nothing more... and then you just go for gold. Wasn't it weird, even awkward, so dramatically changing the relationship so suddenly, after so long? Especially if neither person had had any experience at all beyond the stuff I mentioned above. It'd be like not travelling beyond your region for your entire life, then going, "fuck it, AMAZON!!!!" I can almost imagine there are quite a few Christians who end up having to kind of gradually work their way to it once they're married anyway. Either that, or tearing each others' clothes off, and then being like :|
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unfortunately, both my wife and I came from very dark backgrounds, so we definately didn't go into our marriage as you described. But I have spoken with a number of couples who did, and while it was awkward it was also special because it was something they could learn/experience together. there were no past experiences to compare it to, so whether it was "good" or "bad" didn't matter.
and, as has been noted in this thread already, sex is only the frosting on the cake. it is not the cake.
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sex is only the frosting on the cake. it is not the cake.
What if ......
the vagina is the cake?!!!!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/390755_10150427132383107_710803106_8672205_1674357930_n.jpg)
(how could I not post this? :lol )
rumborak
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I'd sure like to add a bit of my frosting to that cake.
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Well, actually now that I look at it more closely, maybe not so much.
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how is it that practically every DTF thread ends up being about frosting?
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how is it that practically every DTF thread ends up being about frosting?
A blessing and a curse.
Also, isn't the pill like 99% effective? If so, I'm taking my chances.
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Wasn't it weird, even awkward, so dramatically changing the relationship so suddenly, after so long?
Sure, it took a few times before we got the hang of it, but isn't it that way it is for everyone when they start doing it? I thought it was fun figuring it and each other out after we got married. My wife and I were only dating for about 18 months before we got married, so we were still learning a lot about each other in other ways too. A friend of mine was dating his wife for like 7 years before they got married without any sex. I can imagine that was a bit more awkward of a transition.
Also, isn't the pill like 99% effective? If so, I'm taking my chances.
If taken correctly yes, theoretically. In real life it's only something like 80-90% effective because of missed pills and stuff. If you want the birth control to be solely in control of your girlfriend, go ahead and rely on it. If you want to have some control over it yourself, you'd better use more.
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You know, I'm gonna throw a question out there for the Christians/otherwise dedicated waiters in the thread and if no-one answers it, that's okay, but if someone does, cool.
So, you restrain yourself from going too far into the realm of sexual contact with that person for the whole "dating" period, okay, hugging, kissing, maybe a bit of touching, but nothing more... and then you just go for gold. Wasn't it weird, even awkward, so dramatically changing the relationship so suddenly, after so long? Especially if neither person had had any experience at all beyond the stuff I mentioned above. It'd be like not travelling beyond your region for your entire life, then going, "fuck it, AMAZON!!!!" I can almost imagine there are quite a few Christians who end up having to kind of gradually work their way to it once they're married anyway. Either that, or tearing each others' clothes off, and then being like :|
Well, let see. I had been to South America before a couple times but never the amazon. However, with marriage I finally went to the amazon but I had an experienced guide who could speak the native language. :lol
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"fuck it, AMAZON!!!!"
I lol'd.
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I slept with a lot of women before meeting my wife, and with practically all the ones I actually spent any time with, the sex improved over the course of the relationship. That's not to say it was always "good", but sex ain't rocket surgery as they say, and despite what you might think (and what I thought in my late teens and early 20s), it's not that big of a deal. While there were plenty of women with whom I didn't enjoy sex as much as others, there really isn't a huge spectrum of what you might call "God-given talent" in the sack. A lot of it can be learned.
That said, the notion that you sleep with somebody before you get married to find out if you'll be "okay with having sex only with them for the rest of your life" (as somebody said earlier) is ridiculous too. Nobody can make that judgment, you sort of have to decide to commit to it.
-J
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unfortunately, both my wife and I came from very dark backgrounds, so we definately didn't go into our marriage as you described. But I have spoken with a number of couples who did, and while it was awkward it was also special because it was something they could learn/experience together. there were no past experiences to compare it to, so whether it was "good" or "bad" didn't matter.
and, as has been noted in this thread already, sex is only the frosting on the cake. it is not the cake.
And that's an interesting aspect to which I'd given some thought last night. Presumably, with no frame of reference, the sex will just be. I suppose that's not such a terrible thing. However, that opens the door to doubt and curiosity. I'm not sure I'd want to spend my life just assuming that whatever me and my wife's unskilled asses are doing is all there is.
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[A lot of stuff between KNH and snapple]
Even though I disagree with much of your position [ :eyebrows: Get it? I said "position." ], good post.
That emoticon made me LOL :lol
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I just looked it up. I was remembering these:
Gen 38:8-10 ESV Then Judah said to Onan, "Go in to your brother's wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother." (9) But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his. So whenever he went in to his brother's wife he would waste the semen on the ground, so as not to give offspring to his brother. (10) And what he did was wicked in the sight of the LORD, and he put him to death also.
Lev 15:16-18 ESV "If a man has an emission of semen, he shall bathe his whole body in water and be unclean until the evening. (17) And every garment and every skin on which the semen comes shall be washed with water and be unclean until the evening. (18) If a man lies with a woman and has an emission of semen, both of them shall bathe themselves in water and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:32 ESV This is the law for him who has a discharge and for him who has an emission of semen, becoming unclean thereby;
These two passages have nothing to do with one another. And neither of them have anything to do with "no sex before marriage."
The sin of Onan was that he failed to produce an heir for his dead brother, what is known as a Levirate marriage. Since his brother was dead, it was his responsibility to function as a "stud" and make his sister-in-law pregnant with what would legally be his brother's son. But instead, he just fucked her and pulled out, refusing to impregnate her, basically just raping her. THAT was his sin.
The second passage there has to do with ritual cleanliness. Pretty much any transmission of bodily fluids could make you ritually unclean, including sex, nocturnal emissions, a woman's period, etc. But as soon as whatever such transmission was finished, you just purified yourself, washed up, and you were ritually clean again.
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Wasn't it weird, even awkward, so dramatically changing the relationship so suddenly, after so long?
Sure, it took a few times before we got the hang of it, but isn't it that way it is for everyone when they start doing it? I thought it was fun figuring it and each other out after we got married.
That's true, but I didn't mean sex ie intercourse alone. I don't personally abide by no sex before marriage, but that doesn't mean that the moment I had the "moral freedom/peace of mind" to have sex (as a Christian would once they are married), I was desperate to immediately do it with the first girlfriend I had. For my first few gfs as a teenager, we slowly went further and further, as we were comfortable with at that point of time, in a warming up process, getting used to the entire concept of sharing sexuality with another person.
The impression I've gotten from most Christians is they don't really do this at all. They go from kissing and hugging and avoiding much else so as to prevent themselves from going further than they should, and then they get married, they have the freedom, or consent, or whatever you want to call it, and they suddenly jump each other's bones. No warming up to it, nothing. I know there is a MUCH longer period of being with the person you're suddenly having sex with and having established a strong bond with them, and that would be significant in making it easier, I admit, but I personally can't imagine just jumping from, as I put it, home turf to the Amazon on the sexual side of things in the space of one day. I just feel it could be quite... jarring?
Well, let see. I had been to South America before a couple times but never the amazon. However, with marriage I finally went to the amazon but I had an experienced guide who could speak the native language. :lol
a) Great extension of the analogy.
b) THIS is what I'm talking about. A bit of exploring South America before diving into the jungle, so the sights and sounds aren't so unfamiliar and, well, daunting, I suppose.
Possibly taking it a bit too far now.
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I find, really, that you really need to explore the entire hemisphere if you want a completely rewarding and fulfilling experience in the long term. All I'm saying is that you should stay in North America and not go down until after you are married. Wait...
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"Just the tip" is the equivalent of being "slightly pregnant."
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I find, really, that you really need to explore the entire hemisphere if you want a completely rewarding and fulfilling experience in the long term. All I'm saying is that you should stay in North America and not go down until after you are married. Wait...
I dunno, a hemisphere is a pretty big place. As much as the Amazon looks cool, some areas of South America don't necessarily look all that appealing. There are tons of dangerous cultures, you could catch a horrible disease, you could have a horrible spelunking accident in a treacherous cave and break something...
Wait, are we still talking about the same thing?
I'm not saying I don't understand waiting at all. I just think that for some of those Christians who have little to no experience in that area beforehand and do go all the way as soon as they pass go, it must be quite a leap, and while I'm sure most get through it fine, and likely enjoy it, it could be quite troubling for some people, and in some instances could have negative effects on the relationship.
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There's never too much sex.
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I'll answer as someone who did not have sex before being married, probably one of the few here. It was important for me to determine that my wife and I were sexually compatible in the sense that we were interested in it about the same amount. So we did plenty of "fooling around" to figure that kind of stuff out, but no actual intercourse. Being sexually compatible does not only include the actual act of sex. There are plenty of people out there who barely even kiss before marriage and manage to do just fine, so it really varies based on the couple. My recommendation would be to not try and over interpret mundane acts like holding hands, hugging, and a hand on the thigh as being sexual. After a couple of months, these acts will no longer seem sexual in the slightest, but may seem kind of exciting at first. The less sex or at least fooling around you have, the more you'll need to talk about your sexual appetites and whatnot as the relationship gets more serious.
This makes a lot of sense to me. I've no intention of intercourse (mainly for the getting to know aspects you and also Bosk talks about) but there's a lot of fooling around you can do without intercourse though and to me it's not a lot different. It seems you have to put some kind of limit on the physical stuff that might not be appropriate if both people are wanting to get to know eachother first as it risks making the relationship about the physical.
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The greater point here is, can you make it work despite not clicking in bed? Yes, of course, you can shoehorn just about anything in, including my dick into her.... I digress.
The question is, why set yourself up for a potentially uphill battle in terms of saving your overall relationship, when you can upfront clear out that hurdle and find someone you're sexually compatible with?
I can definitely say of one girl I've been together with that I fucking hated sex with her. She was a great personality and yes, I could have made it work. But later I found a girl that, lo and behold, I clicked both physically and mentally.
Are you suggesting I rather should have stuck it out with the first girl?
rumborak
Are you saying it was a mental thing that you couldn't translate into the physical or that the bodily things were unpleasant for you?
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Have you ever done ballroom dancing? It's really kinda the same. With some people you can dance well, with others you don't.
rumborak
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Have you ever done ballroom dancing? It's really kinda the same. With some people you can dance well, with others you don't.
rumborak
Rumbo, and some like to booty grind.
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Have you ever done ballroom dancing? It's really kinda the same. With some people you can dance well, with others you don't.
rumborak
And I see no reason why how good my wife is at ballroom dancing should play any role in my decision to marry her.
I would marry for different reasons, like personality, faith, and virtue. Interests are important, but not central. Sexual compatibility is something that can be developed with time, especially if a married couple learns together. Even if it can't, even if compatibility isn't perfect, so what?
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I'm not intending to marry and/or reproduce spawn, so I'm all about safe and responsible sex out of wedlock!
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I'm not intending to marry and/or reproduce spawn, so I'm all about safe and responsible sex out of wedlock!
Why do you teens say this now? How the hell do you know how you will feel 10 to 20 years from now. As a grown up who couldn't have children, it was the biggest regret of our lives. Don't close yourself off so quick.
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I'm not intending to marry and/or reproduce spawn, so I'm all about safe and responsible sex out of wedlock!
Why do you teens say this now? How the hell do you know how you will feel 10 to 20 years from now. As a grown up who couldn't have children, it was the biggest regret of our lives. Don't close yourself off so quick.
:clap:
I'm 21 and I already want kids. I'm going to wait, but I'm hella excited for them!
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Have you ever done ballroom dancing? It's really kinda the same. With some people you can dance well, with others you don't.
rumborak
And I see no reason why how good my wife is at ballroom dancing should play any role in my decision to marry her.
I would marry for different reasons, like personality, faith, and virtue. Interests are important, but not central. Sexual compatibility is something that can be developed with time, especially if a married couple learns together. Even if it can't, even if compatibility isn't perfect, so what?
I think as long as you and your s/o agree on what matters in the relationship then go for it. I know with the last girl I dated sexual compatibility was an important thing for her as well as me.
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Have you ever done ballroom dancing? It's really kinda the same. With some people you can dance well, with others you don't.
rumborak
And I see no reason why how good my wife is at ballroom dancing should play any role in my decision to marry her.
I would marry for different reasons, like personality, faith, and virtue. Interests are important, but not central. Sexual compatibility is something that can be developed with time, especially if a married couple learns together. Even if it can't, even if compatibility isn't perfect, so what?
If you're going to assume that someone will "develop" the same or similar sexual preferences as you then you can make that assumption about other things like their personality as well. Going into a marriage with the attitude of "meh, it'll get better later" doesn't seem like the greatest idea to me. If sexual comparability is important to someone then they wouldn't get married and wait for it to "develop with time" any more than you would do the same for the things you just said you find important.
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I'm not intending to marry and/or reproduce spawn, so I'm all about safe and responsible sex out of wedlock!
Why do you teens say this now? How the hell do you know how you will feel 10 to 20 years from now.
To be fair, you could argue the same for young people who say they want children.
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Have as much sex as you want, but be aware of the consequences (i.e. reputation). If I hook up with a girl that is known to 'go around' then I probably won't take her home to meet mom.
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I'm not intending to marry and/or reproduce spawn, so I'm all about safe and responsible sex out of wedlock!
Why do you teens say this now? How the hell do you know how you will feel 10 to 20 years from now.
To be fair, you could argue the same for young people who say they want children.
And I agree with that too. It's too early in a teenagers life to close doors.
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Gotta try before you buy. You don't really want to get married then find out your sexually incompatible for some reason.... :-[
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I'm not saying that I am only for sex once married, but the "try-before-you-buy" argument seems just a little hinky to me, especially as worded in the previous post. The fear that you may be sexually incompatible with someone once you've married them seems almost like an urban legend to me. I've never heard of someone being sexually incompatible with someone that they were otherwise perfect matches for.
I mean, I guess it could happen, but I think a lot of sexual compatibility comes along with other personality traits being compatible as well. If you two are otherwise a perfect match, you will be sexually compatible as well, I would imagine. That's all I'm saying.
But by all means, boff away.
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I'm not saying that I am only for sex once married, but the "try-before-you-buy" argument seems just a little hinky to me, especially as worded in the previous post. The fear that you may be sexually incompatible with someone once you've married them seems almost like an urban legend to me. I've never heard of someone being sexually incompatible with someone that they were otherwise perfect matches for.
I mean, I guess it could happen, but I think a lot of sexual compatibility comes along with other personality traits being compatible as well. If you two are otherwise a perfect match, you will be sexually compatible as well, I would imagine. That's all I'm saying.
But by all means, boff away.
I agree. The stories I've heard of sexual incompatibility fall into three groups:
1) Couple has kids, wife is too burned out and tired and is uninterested in sex very often.
2) Woman was abused in the past and has issues with sex. This didn't come out before marriage since they didn't want to do it and she is now refusing (or physically unable) after marriage.
3) Woman puts out before marriage, but is uninterested after marriage.
I don't have any statistics, but I'd imagine 1 is pretty common with 2 and 3 being somewhat rare.
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I'm not saying that I am only for sex once married, but the "try-before-you-buy" argument seems just a little hinky to me, especially as worded in the previous post. The fear that you may be sexually incompatible with someone once you've married them seems almost like an urban legend to me. I've never heard of someone being sexually incompatible with someone that they were otherwise perfect matches for.
I mean, I guess it could happen, but I think a lot of sexual compatibility comes along with other personality traits being compatible as well. If you two are otherwise a perfect match, you will be sexually compatible as well, I would imagine. That's all I'm saying.
But by all means, boff away.
FYI (https://www.divorce360.com/divorce-articles/causes-of-divorce/information/why-americans-divorce.aspx?artid=169)
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I'm not saying that I am only for sex once married, but the "try-before-you-buy" argument seems just a little hinky to me, especially as worded in the previous post. The fear that you may be sexually incompatible with someone once you've married them seems almost like an urban legend to me. I've never heard of someone being sexually incompatible with someone that they were otherwise perfect matches for.
I mean, I guess it could happen, but I think a lot of sexual compatibility comes along with other personality traits being compatible as well. If you two are otherwise a perfect match, you will be sexually compatible as well, I would imagine. That's all I'm saying.
But by all means, boff away.
I agree. The stories I've heard of sexual incompatibility fall into three groups:
1) Couple has kids, wife is too burned out and tired and is uninterested in sex very often.
2) Woman was abused in the past and has issues with sex. This didn't come out before marriage since they didn't want to do it and she is now refusing (or physically unable) after marriage.
3) Woman puts out before marriage, but is uninterested after marriage.
I don't have any statistics, but I'd imagine 1 is pretty common with 2 and 3 being somewhat rare.
my wife falls under #2. with years of honoring her and giving her the love she needs, we have overcome it together. our sexual relationship is now very healthy. this is how marriage works.
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I'm one of those who has always maintained since teen years that I would never have kids. Still never going to. The following article, though presented as satire, is so chock-full of truth that it's almost scary. It does a decent job of describing some of my feelings about children.
Link (https://www.theonion.com/articles/new-study-reveals-most-children-unrepentant-sociop,2870/)
As to the OP, if you want to, do it. If you don't, then don't. You are the one and only person that has to live with your conscience. Nobody else can tell you what will be good for your conscience.
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I'm one of those who has always maintained since teen years that I would never have kids.
That explains all the hair
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One thing is also, you can't tell me that abstinence doesn't produce an incentive to get married sooner rather than later. In a country where the divorce rate is through the roof because of rushed marriages that's not a good incentive to have.
And a more mundane comment, I'm sitting here in freezing Boston, and honestly there's nothing better than to get under the warm blanket and fuck your gf's brain out.
And another comment, I think a good amount of couples kinda cheat on the thing, in the sense that there's fingering, hand jobs, cunnilingus and whatnot going on, just no penetration. That's not abstinence, that's cheating by way of semantics.
rumborak
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And another comment, I think a good amount of couples kinda cheat on the thing, in the sense that there's fingering, hand jobs, cunnilingus and whatnot going on, just no penetration. That's not abstinence, that's cheating by way of semantics.
rumborak
that's probably more in line with what the OP was asking
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I've never had a problem with sex outside of marriage. I've had plenty of sex outside of marriage and it was all awesome. I'm not a Christian though, so I don't have much to contribute to this conversation.
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One thing is also, you can't tell me that abstinence doesn't produce an incentive to get married sooner rather than later. In a country where the divorce rate is through the roof because of rushed marriages that's not a good incentive to have.
And a more mundane comment, I'm sitting here in freezing Boston, and honestly there's nothing better than to get under the warm blanket and fuck your gf's brain out.
And another comment, I think a good amount of couples kinda cheat on the thing, in the sense that there's fingering, hand jobs, cunnilingus and whatnot going on, just no penetration. That's not abstinence, that's cheating by way of semantics.
rumborak
Is it really? I know what you're saying and agree for the most part. Although the bible talks about a man and woman becoming one, arguably that means only full intercourse with climaxing.
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I'm not saying that I am only for sex once married, but the "try-before-you-buy" argument seems just a little hinky to me, especially as worded in the previous post. The fear that you may be sexually incompatible with someone once you've married them seems almost like an urban legend to me. I've never heard of someone being sexually incompatible with someone that they were otherwise perfect matches for.
I mean, I guess it could happen, but I think a lot of sexual compatibility comes along with other personality traits being compatible as well. If you two are otherwise a perfect match, you will be sexually compatible as well, I would imagine. That's all I'm saying.
But by all means, boff away.
FYI (https://www.divorce360.com/divorce-articles/causes-of-divorce/information/why-americans-divorce.aspx?artid=169)
All that says is that, on average, men like sex more than women. Everyone knows this. Even in couples who are very compatible sexually, the man normally wants sex more than the woman wants sex. On average, I'm aware that there are exceptions or even men with low sex drives.
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Also, after a couple of years the question becomes: how much sex AFTER marriage? :rollin
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The biggest problem I tend to see with today and the world of sex is that there is no longer a defining line or an objective line. Almost anything is now construed as sexual, from a look to a touch. My advice is to stop questioning yourself on it and start to draw the lines. There is showing love and there is sex. These two things should not be intertwined like they are which is another thing where I think we are losing our sense of being intimate without it being something sexual. I think we are very capable of knowing when love is becoming sex and the world itself is driven with sexual tones and usually not softer tones of love.
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One thing is also, you can't tell me that abstinence doesn't produce an incentive to get married sooner rather than later. In a country where the divorce rate is through the roof because of rushed marriages that's not a good incentive to have.
And a more mundane comment, I'm sitting here in freezing Boston, and honestly there's nothing better than to get under the warm blanket and fuck your gf's brain out.
And another comment, I think a good amount of couples kinda cheat on the thing, in the sense that there's fingering, hand jobs, cunnilingus and whatnot going on, just no penetration. That's not abstinence, that's cheating by way of semantics.
rumborak
Is it really? I know what you're saying and agree for the most part. Although the bible talks about a man and woman becoming one, arguably that means only full intercourse with climaxing.
If you go by the Bible, Jesus says that even looking at a woman with lust is Adultery.
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One thing is also, you can't tell me that abstinence doesn't produce an incentive to get married sooner rather than later. In a country where the divorce rate is through the roof because of rushed marriages that's not a good incentive to have.
And a more mundane comment, I'm sitting here in freezing Boston, and honestly there's nothing better than to get under the warm blanket and fuck your gf's brain out.
And another comment, I think a good amount of couples kinda cheat on the thing, in the sense that there's fingering, hand jobs, cunnilingus and whatnot going on, just no penetration. That's not abstinence, that's cheating by way of semantics.
rumborak
Is it really? I know what you're saying and agree for the most part. Although the bible talks about a man and woman becoming one, arguably that means only full intercourse with climaxing.
If you go by the Bible, Jesus says that even looking at a woman with lust is Adultery.
Well than I'm on a highway straight to hell...
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can we not start this again?
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Convince her that it's not sex if it's anal.
ROFLMAO