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General => Archive => Political and Religious => Topic started by: jingle.boy on November 10, 2011, 01:36:39 PM
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I can't recall if I've ever posted in P/R, certainly never started a topic. But this was too good to not post. I didn't find anything posted about Ben Stein, so apologies if it's already been posted/discussed.
Apparently the White House referred to Christmas Trees as “Holiday Trees” for the first time this year which prompted CBS presenter, Ben Stein, to present this piece which I would like to share with you. I think it applies just as much to many countries as it does to America . . . certainly does so here in Canada.
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejewelled trees, Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are, Christmas trees.
It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, “Merry Christmas” to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a crib, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.
I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.
Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.
In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her: “How could God let something like this happen?” (regarding Hurricane Katrina). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said: “I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?”
In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbour as yourself. And we said OK.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said okay.
Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing yet?
Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.
Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.
Pass it on if you think it has merit.
If not, then just discard it.... no one will know you did. But if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.
My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,
Ben Stein
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He started off all right. Then he kind of veered off the rails.
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That's what I was thinking too. Except the part about how we aren't allowed to discipline children anymore and then complain that they are all warped. That is pretty true in current American society. Kids get away with too much these days.
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it sounds like one of the pseudopigraphical emails I get every other day in my inbox.
the first part sounds like something he might have actually said and then someone added the rest to it
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I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.
This is patently absurd. Our country is run by Christians.
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Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her: “How could God let something like this happen?” (regarding Hurricane Katrina). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said: “I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?”
Whoever said it, I can't stand this ridiculous argument, as if God's as sensitive as a teenage girl. "Don't want me in your schools? Well, how about a hurricane, you little bitch!"
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Stopped reading after " every single one of my ancestors was Jewish." ::)
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Stopped reading after " every single one of my ancestors was Jewish." ::)
It's easier to say that if you believe Adam and Eve were kicking around 6000 years ago.
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according to snopes, his actual quote ends after the fourth paragraph.
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I guess I got a little duped. Just 'snoped' this, and it's partially legit.
it sounds like one of the pseudopigraphical emails I get every other day in my inbox.
the first part sounds like something he might have actually said and then someone added the rest to it
You're right... up to the Billy Graham's daughter paragraph is the legit Ben Stein part. After that is other sources written in to this.
None-the-less, I thought story behind the story was accurate and relevant. We're so afraid of offending people, and I don't just mean Christians vs whomever else. The school my children went to a few years ago disallowed Halloween for fear it would scare immigrants who didn't understand Halloween; the Christmas tree was called a "Mitten Tree" and decorated with mittens so as to not offend other faiths. Oh Canada was being removed from the school systems because "God" is in the song, and not everyone is native Canadian. Hello, immigrants came to Canada (or the US, or wherever) for a reason. I don't expect people to abandon their culture or values (well, maybe some of them, like stoning women), but don't expect me to abandon mine. Do you think any immigrants in India are forcing Diwali and those traditions out?
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He started off all right. Then he kind of veered off the rails.
I agree.
Something that really stood out to me: Stein talked a lot about how the world used to be and how it is now and how it's going to shit. Is just the opposite not true? Is the world not a better place to live now than it ever has been?*
*I'm thinking of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo
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I guess I got a little duped. Just 'snoped' this, and it's partially legit.
it sounds like one of the pseudopigraphical emails I get every other day in my inbox.
the first part sounds like something he might have actually said and then someone added the rest to it
You're right... up to the Billy Graham's daughter paragraph is the legit Ben Stein part. After that is other sources written in to this.
None-the-less, I thought story behind the story was accurate and relevant. We're so afraid of offending people, and I don't just mean Christians vs whomever else. The school my children went to a few years ago disallowed Halloween for fear it would scare immigrants who didn't understand Halloween; the Christmas tree was called a "Mitten Tree" and decorated with mittens so as to not offend other faiths. Oh Canada was being removed from the school systems because "God" is in the song, and not everyone is native Canadian. Hello, immigrants came to Canada (or the US, or wherever) for a reason. I don't expect people to abandon their culture or values (well, maybe some of them, like stoning women), but don't expect me to abandon mine. Do you think any immigrants in India are forcing Diwali and those traditions out?
God should not be part of the anthem. For one it wasn't originally written that and 2 we are a secualr nation. if the anthem does not represent all it should represent none.
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Reminds me of this little debate, when Stein called Ron Paul an anti-semite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyMh15fEKRI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyMh15fEKRI)
I can't take Stein seriously.
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Stopped reading after " every single one of my ancestors was Jewish." ::)
It's easier to say that if you believe Adam and Eve were kicking around 6000 years ago.
Only if Adam and Eve were also Jews. Which..... would make everyone a Jew.
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Reminds me of this little debate, when Stein called Ron Paul an anti-semite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyMh15fEKRI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyMh15fEKRI)
I can't take Stein seriously.
Not taking him seriously is the most respectful thing I would say about him after I saw this earlier this year.
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I guess I got a little duped. Just 'snoped' this, and it's partially legit.
it sounds like one of the pseudopigraphical emails I get every other day in my inbox.
the first part sounds like something he might have actually said and then someone added the rest to it
Oh Canada was being removed from the school systems because "God" is in the song, and not everyone is native Canadian.
I've never heard of this.
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Stopped reading after " every single one of my ancestors was Jewish." ::)
??? Why?
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Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her: “How could God let something like this happen?” (regarding Hurricane Katrina). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said: “I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?”
Whoever said it, I can't stand this ridiculous argument, as if God's as sensitive as a teenage girl. "Don't want me in your schools? Well, how about a hurricane, you little bitch!"
:rollin
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I don't think too highly of Ben Stein, but I agree with the part attributed to him. I'm happy enough for people to wish me a merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, or a Tip-Top Tet if that's what they're into. I'll probably even return the regards.
Now, as for this war on Christmas garbage that the right keeps harping on, if it actually does exist, Christmas is kicking the shit out of it's enemies. Truth be told, modern Christmas is merely an adjunct of our consumer based society, and as such, it's invincible. Wal-Mart, Best Buy and De Beers will never, ever let it be harmed. It is those entities that propagate the whole "war on Christmas" bullshit by couching all of the rhetoric to try and avoid offending the 1% that might be put off by it. The right latches onto that because it loves getting riled up about anything with a hint of political correctness. In the mean time, the holiday season begins one whole month earlier than it did 8 years ago, and the people who fear that Christmas is under attack run out to buy a new HDTV every year from the store that still calls it Christmas and complains that the atheists are out to get them.
Seems to me that the Christians are probably right to feel threatened regarding their holiday beliefs, but it isn't the atheists or the democrats that are their concern. It's the wild West of capitalism that's fucking up their holiday.
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I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.
Here's what annoys me about these kind of complaints... there's other religions other than Christianity (as you'd think a Jew would know...), and that's why, if anything, there's a push for Merry Holidays over Merry Christmas (I personally don't give a rats ass), but it's not becuase of "atheism." I just love how crazy Christians get over everything, when Christianity get's pandered to more than any other religion in America. Atheists aren't a very large section of this country.
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Stopped reading after " every single one of my ancestors was Jewish." ::)
??? Why?
Okay I lied, I did actually keep reading but only because I thought it was satirical, but then I remembered who Ben Stein was.
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Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her: “How could God let something like this happen?” (regarding Hurricane Katrina). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said: “I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?”
Whoever said it, I can't stand this ridiculous argument, as if God's as sensitive as a teenage girl. "Don't want me in your schools? Well, how about a hurricane, you little bitch!"
My hardcore religious aunt and cousins made signs and stood on a street corner saying that this financial crisis happened because we stopped believing in the words "In Got We Trust" that is on all our currency.
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Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her: “How could God let something like this happen?” (regarding Hurricane Katrina). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said: “I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?”
Whoever said it, I can't stand this ridiculous argument, as if God's as sensitive as a teenage girl. "Don't want me in your schools? Well, how about a hurricane, you little bitch!"
My hardcore religious aunt and cousins made signs and stood on a street corner saying that this financial crisis happened because we stopped believing in the words "In Got We Trust" that is on all our currency.
Uggh. I despise Gotists.
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Here's what annoys me about these kind of complaints... there's other religions other than Christianity (as you'd think a Jew would know...), and that's why, if anything, there's a push for Merry Holidays over Merry Christmas (I personally don't give a rats ass), but it's not becuase of "atheism."
I've never heard of anyone from one of "those other religions" who claimed to be offended. Ever.
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her: “How could God let something like this happen?” (regarding Hurricane Katrina). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said: “I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?”
Whoever said it, I can't stand this ridiculous argument, as if God's as sensitive as a teenage girl. "Don't want me in your schools? Well, how about a hurricane, you little bitch!"
My hardcore religious aunt and cousins made signs and stood on a street corner saying that this financial crisis happened because we stopped believing in the words "In Got We Trust" that is on all our currency.
Uggh. I despise Gotists.
:rollin
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Uggh. I despise Gotists.
:rollin
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I don't think too highly of Ben Stein, but I agree with the part attributed to him. I'm happy enough for people to wish me a merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, or a Tip-Top Tet if that's what they're into. I'll probably even return the regards.
Now, as for this war on Christmas garbage that the right keeps harping on, if it actually does exist, Christmas is kicking the shit out of it's enemies. Truth be told, modern Christmas is merely an adjunct of our consumer based society, and as such, it's invincible. Wal-Mart, Best Buy and De Beers will never, ever let it be harmed. It is those entities that propagate the whole "war on Christmas" bullshit by couching all of the rhetoric to try and avoid offending the 1% that might be put off by it. The right latches onto that because it loves getting riled up about anything with a hint of political correctness. In the mean time, the holiday season begins one whole month earlier than it did 8 years ago, and the people who fear that Christmas is under attack run out to buy a new HDTV every year from the store that still calls it Christmas and complains that the atheists are out to get them.
Seems to me that the Christians are probably right to feel threatened regarding their holiday beliefs, but it isn't the atheists or the democrats that are their concern. It's the wild West of capitalism that's fucking up their holiday.
I'm more than a bit tired of everybody blaming a boogie man for ruining their pure and sacred traditions. From a biblical standpoint, December and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus; atheism sucks year around; capitalism makes life better for everybody and has nothing to do with the "attack" on Christmas.
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Here's what annoys me about these kind of complaints... there's other religions other than Christianity (as you'd think a Jew would know...), and that's why, if anything, there's a push for Merry Holidays over Merry Christmas (I personally don't give a rats ass), but it's not becuase of "atheism."
I've never heard of anyone from one of "those other religions" who claimed to be offended. Ever.
And I've never heard of any of these atheists who are offended by Merry Christmas.
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Here's what annoys me about these kind of complaints... there's other religions other than Christianity (as you'd think a Jew would know...), and that's why, if anything, there's a push for Merry Holidays over Merry Christmas (I personally don't give a rats ass), but it's not becuase of "atheism."
I've never heard of anyone from one of "those other religions" who claimed to be offended. Ever.
And I've never heard of any of these atheists who are offended by Merry Christmas.
I have, it made me so mad that people actually get offended by it, and it wasn't just something made up.
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Here's what annoys me about these kind of complaints... there's other religions other than Christianity (as you'd think a Jew would know...), and that's why, if anything, there's a push for Merry Holidays over Merry Christmas (I personally don't give a rats ass), but it's not becuase of "atheism."
I've never heard of anyone from one of "those other religions" who claimed to be offended. Ever.
And I've never heard of any of these atheists who are offended by Merry Christmas.
I have, it made me so mad that people actually get offended by it, and it wasn't just something made up.
The only way I know about is is from Christians complaining about the War on Christmas.
Atheists who go that far are really annoying though; generally, I find they're more anti-Christianity because of their upbringing, than simply non-believers.
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Here's what annoys me about these kind of complaints... there's other religions other than Christianity (as you'd think a Jew would know...), and that's why, if anything, there's a push for Merry Holidays over Merry Christmas (I personally don't give a rats ass), but it's not becuase of "atheism."
I've never heard of anyone from one of "those other religions" who claimed to be offended. Ever.
And I've never heard of any of these atheists who are offended by Merry Christmas.
I have, it made me so mad that people actually get offended by it, and it wasn't just something made up.
Well I'm irritated that you're mad that atheists are offended, so there.
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I don't think too highly of Ben Stein, but I agree with the part attributed to him. I'm happy enough for people to wish me a merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, or a Tip-Top Tet if that's what they're into. I'll probably even return the regards.
Now, as for this war on Christmas garbage that the right keeps harping on, if it actually does exist, Christmas is kicking the shit out of it's enemies. Truth be told, modern Christmas is merely an adjunct of our consumer based society, and as such, it's invincible. Wal-Mart, Best Buy and De Beers will never, ever let it be harmed. It is those entities that propagate the whole "war on Christmas" bullshit by couching all of the rhetoric to try and avoid offending the 1% that might be put off by it. The right latches onto that because it loves getting riled up about anything with a hint of political correctness. In the mean time, the holiday season begins one whole month earlier than it did 8 years ago, and the people who fear that Christmas is under attack run out to buy a new HDTV every year from the store that still calls it Christmas and complains that the atheists are out to get them.
Seems to me that the Christians are probably right to feel threatened regarding their holiday beliefs, but it isn't the atheists or the democrats that are their concern. It's the wild West of capitalism that's fucking up their holiday.
I'm more than a bit tired of everybody blaming a boogie man for ruining their pure and sacred traditions. From a biblical standpoint, December and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus; atheism sucks year around; capitalism makes life better for everybody and has nothing to do with the "attack" on Christmas.
Well which is it? Is Christmas a scared and pure tradition, or is it a capitalist marketing tool?
I'm actually not out to attack capitalism at the moment. I'm just pointing out that the Christians who are butt-hurt about this shouldn't be as bothered by tiny number of people who are offended by Christmas as much as they should be that the birth of their Messiah is commemorated by purchasing electronics and jewelry.
I've never heard anybody bitch about Merry Christmas, although I'm sure there are some hard-ass atheists that do. Still, there are so little as to be inconsequential. I sure do hear a ton about it though, because the right is so dead set on convincing people how terrible it is.
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I've never heard anybody bitch about Merry Christmas, although I'm sure there are some hard-ass atheists that do. Still, there are so little as to be inconsequential. I sure do hear a ton about it though, because the right is so dead set on convincing people how terrible it is.
Pretty much this. Ironically, I think the right making such a big deal out of it has actually made it more of an issue. Try and convince people or something, and a certain amount are going to disagree.
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Here's what annoys me about these kind of complaints... there's other religions other than Christianity (as you'd think a Jew would know...), and that's why, if anything, there's a push for Merry Holidays over Merry Christmas (I personally don't give a rats ass), but it's not becuase of "atheism."
I've never heard of anyone from one of "those other religions" who claimed to be offended. Ever.
And I've never heard of any of these atheists who are offended by Merry Christmas.
I have, it made me so mad that people actually get offended by it, and it wasn't just something made up.
Well I'm irritated that you're mad that atheists are offended, so there.
Okay...sorry that I'm mad that Athiests got in my face for me wishing them a "Merry Christmas" , also just to let you know I'm Agnostic.
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I had 3 Christmases so far in the U.S.
I say Merry Christmas, I thank people when they say it to me. I get the tree and decorate it, sometimes even do the presents thing if money is good. It's one of the most jolly fuckin things in the world! Since I was a kid in Egypt watching Home Alone and other Christmas kids comedies I loved the vibe of the American Christmas. I can't imagine a fucked up scenario of me thinking "Shit this is a Christian thing! It's bad to practice it's rituals!" let alone be offended cause someone said Merry Christmas to me.
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Honestly, I can't think of a single time that I've heard anyone actually be offended by Happy Christmas. The only time I've ever heard about it is people ranting about 'The War on Christmas', which I've seen both on the news and had the pleasure of discussing with several of the more elderly customers at my work.
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I don't think too highly of Ben Stein, but I agree with the part attributed to him. I'm happy enough for people to wish me a merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, or a Tip-Top Tet if that's what they're into. I'll probably even return the regards.
Now, as for this war on Christmas garbage that the right keeps harping on, if it actually does exist, Christmas is kicking the shit out of it's enemies. Truth be told, modern Christmas is merely an adjunct of our consumer based society, and as such, it's invincible. Wal-Mart, Best Buy and De Beers will never, ever let it be harmed. It is those entities that propagate the whole "war on Christmas" bullshit by couching all of the rhetoric to try and avoid offending the 1% that might be put off by it. The right latches onto that because it loves getting riled up about anything with a hint of political correctness. In the mean time, the holiday season begins one whole month earlier than it did 8 years ago, and the people who fear that Christmas is under attack run out to buy a new HDTV every year from the store that still calls it Christmas and complains that the atheists are out to get them.
Seems to me that the Christians are probably right to feel threatened regarding their holiday beliefs, but it isn't the atheists or the democrats that are their concern. It's the wild West of capitalism that's fucking up their holiday.
I'm more than a bit tired of everybody blaming a boogie man for ruining their pure and sacred traditions. From a biblical standpoint, December and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus; atheism sucks year around; capitalism makes life better for everybody and has nothing to do with the "attack" on Christmas.
Well which is it? Is Christmas a scared and pure tradition, or is it a capitalist marketing tool?
Both, and they're both awesome.
I'm actually not out to attack capitalism at the moment. I'm just pointing out that the Christians who are Super Dude about this shouldn't be as bothered by tiny number of people who are offended by Christmas as much as they should be that the birth of their Messiah is commemorated by purchasing electronics and jewelry.
Agreed. I'm just tired of everybody using Christmas as a weapon in the culture war. We happen celebrate an important event on December 25; we also buy cool stuff for low prices, and everybody involved needs to shut up.
I've never heard anybody bitch about Merry Christmas, although I'm sure there are some hard-ass atheists that do. Still, there are so little as to be inconsequential. I sure do hear a ton about it though, because the right is so dead set on convincing people how terrible it is.
[/quote]
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I had 3 Christmases so far in the U.S.
I say Merry Christmas, I thank people when they say it to me. I get the tree and decorate it, sometimes even do the presents thing if money is good. It's one of the most jolly fuckin things in the world! Since I was a kid in Egypt watching Home Alone and other Christmas kids comedies I loved the vibe of the American Christmas. I can't imagine a fucked up scenario of me thinking "Shit this is a Christian thing! It's bad to practice it's rituals!" let alone be offended cause someone said Merry Christmas to me.
Great Post! I think people need to look at the real problems in the world and not make new ones. Picking on Christmas is like picking on an old Italian Grandmother. She never hurt anybody, she only spreads joy through her culinary genius. She's Italian Catholic, but so what. Everybody enjoys eating her sugo.
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I'm more than a bit tired of everybody blaming a boogie man for ruining their pure and sacred traditions. From a biblical standpoint, December and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus; atheism sucks year around; capitalism makes life better for everybody and has nothing to do with the "attack" on Christmas.
:lol
I don't know about that. I for one am not constantly trying to appease a mythological being.
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I'm more than a bit tired of everybody blaming a boogie man for ruining their pure and sacred traditions. From a biblical standpoint, December and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus; atheism sucks year around; capitalism makes life better for everybody and has nothing to do with the "attack" on Christmas.
:lol
I don't know about that. I for one am not constantly trying to appease a mythological being.
Perhaps not. But living the fairy tale that God doesn't exist is just as bad.
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I'm more than a bit tired of everybody blaming a boogie man for ruining their pure and sacred traditions. From a biblical standpoint, December and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus; atheism sucks year around; capitalism makes life better for everybody and has nothing to do with the "attack" on Christmas.
:lol
I don't know about that. I for one am not constantly trying to appease a mythological being.
Perhaps not. But living the fairy tale that God doesn't exist is just as bad.
Not necessarily that a god doesn't exist but that the Christian god sure doesn't.
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(https://www.techimo.com/forum/attachments/debateimo-politics-religion-controversy/23747d1289945872-why-not-let-tsa-grab-your-junk-do-you-have-something-hide-oh-boy-here-we-go-again.jpg)
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I'm more than a bit tired of everybody blaming a boogie man for ruining their pure and sacred traditions. From a biblical standpoint, December and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus; atheism sucks year around; capitalism makes life better for everybody and has nothing to do with the "attack" on Christmas.
:lol
I don't know about that. I for one am not constantly trying to appease a mythological being.
Perhaps not. But living the fairy tale that God doesn't exist is just as bad.
Not necessarily that a god doesn't exist but that the Christian god sure doesn't.
I mentioned that to Him, and he laughed and said He doesn't have time to debate it right now, but He'll see you soon.
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I'm more than a bit tired of everybody blaming a boogie man for ruining their pure and sacred traditions. From a biblical standpoint, December and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus; atheism sucks year around; capitalism makes life better for everybody and has nothing to do with the "attack" on Christmas.
:lol
I don't know about that. I for one am not constantly trying to appease a mythological being.
Perhaps not. But living the fairy tale that God doesn't exist is just as bad.
Not necessarily that a god doesn't exist but that the Christian god sure doesn't.
I mentioned that to Him, and he laughed and said He doesn't have time to debate it right now, but He'll see you soon.
The supposed omnipotent doesn't have time. Inconvenient way of backing out of a debate.
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I'm more than a bit tired of everybody blaming a boogie man for ruining their pure and sacred traditions. From a biblical standpoint, December and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus; atheism sucks year around; capitalism makes life better for everybody and has nothing to do with the "attack" on Christmas.
:lol
I don't know about that.
Well, studies show otherwise.
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I think what Ben Stein said was deserving of a thumbs up. :tup
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I'm more than a bit tired of everybody blaming a boogie man for ruining their pure and sacred traditions. From a biblical standpoint, December and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus; atheism sucks year around; capitalism makes life better for everybody and has nothing to do with the "attack" on Christmas.
:lol
I don't know about that.
Well, studies show otherwise.
Ignorance is bliss.
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I'm more than a bit tired of everybody blaming a boogie man for ruining their pure and sacred traditions. From a biblical standpoint, December and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus; atheism sucks year around; capitalism makes life better for everybody and has nothing to do with the "attack" on Christmas.
:lol
I don't know about that.
Well, studies show otherwise.
Studies also show that atheists on average are more intelligent.
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Studies show that most "studies show" quotes on the internet are :censored
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Jingle boy, you post that and don't even have an opinion on it? Are you in agreement or not?
Ben Stein rocks and much of that article, his words or not is spot on! I agree 1,000,000%
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Jingle boy, you post that and don't even have an opinion on it? Are you in agreement or not?
Ben Stein rocks and much of that article, his words or not is spot on! I agree 1,000,000%
Yeah, I guess I kinda hit-and-run with the post. And yes, I'm right with you Tick. I don't particularly relish in these kinds of debates (hence my lack of posting), but I'll say to the people that haven't experienced the kind of 'war on Christmas' that some say doesn't exist, be thankful. It does happen. I think a couple of Stein's (and the additional) comments are spot on. Christians should not need to give up their values, cultures and rituals anymore than any other religion should... yet in some places, we are. I don't think that's right. As Stein said, I don't like feeling as though I'm being pushed around because of my Christian beliefs and values.
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Jingle boy, you post that and don't even have an opinion on it? Are you in agreement or not?
Ben Stein rocks and much of that article, his words or not is spot on! I agree 1,000,000%
Yeah, I guess I kinda hit-and-run with the post. And yes, I'm right with you Tick. I don't particularly relish in these kinds of debates (hence my lack of posting), but I'll say to the people that haven't experienced the kind of 'war on Christmas' that some say doesn't exist, be thankful. It does happen. I think a couple of Stein's (and the additional) comments are spot on. Christians should not need to give up their values, cultures and rituals anymore than any other religion should... yet in some places, we are. I don't think that's right. As Stein said, I don't like feeling as though I'm being pushed around because of my Christian beliefs and values.
Good to hear. I am a Christian, but I have friends who are Jewish, Muslim, Atheist, and even Wiccan and I respect them because they are my friends. You don't have to agree with something to show respect. The anti Christian movement is tiresome. I don't like to waste my time debating certain things because you can't win anyhow. I also don't respect the Christian who tries to force religion down others throats. It doesn't work that way and never has.
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Jingle boy, you post that and don't even have an opinion on it? Are you in agreement or not?
Ben Stein rocks and much of that article, his words or not is spot on! I agree 1,000,000%
Yeah, I guess I kinda hit-and-run with the post. And yes, I'm right with you Tick. I don't particularly relish in these kinds of debates (hence my lack of posting), but I'll say to the people that haven't experienced the kind of 'war on Christmas' that some say doesn't exist, be thankful. It does happen. I think a couple of Stein's (and the additional) comments are spot on. Christians should not need to give up their values, cultures and rituals anymore than any other religion should... yet in some places, we are. I don't think that's right. As Stein said, I don't like feeling as though I'm being pushed around because of my Christian beliefs and values.
Good to hear. I am a Christian, but I have friends who are Jewish, Muslim, Atheist, and even Wiccan and I respect them because they are my friends. You don't have to agree with something to show respect. The anti Christian movement is tiresome. I don't like to waste my time debating certain things because you can't win anyhow. I also don't respect the Christian who tries to force religion down others throats. It doesn't work that way and never has.
Sound like we have a lot of the same views. In my community, there are all knids of faiths (Hindu, Muslim... celebrating all kinds of holiday rituals - Ramadan, Kwanzaa, Chanakah...). I respect theirs, and simply want the same in return.
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while I agree with the quote for the most part, I also don't have much respect for Christians who whine about not being accepted by others. Jesus made it pretty clear that the world will hate those who follow him just as they hated him. Until we are being fed to lions or nailed to a cross I don't think we have it too rough.
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I do not agree with those that are vehement about people not saying Merry Christmas or any other religious holiday. I do agree that not religion should be held in any type of authority or hold any sway in decision making unless there agenda holds true regardless of their religion.
Government should not respect any belief if it will break the law or bring harm to another such as a parent refusing a blood transfusion for their child.
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while I agree with the quote for the most part, I also don't have much respect for Christians who whine about not being accepted by others. Jesus made it pretty clear that the world will hate those who follow him just as they hated him. Until we are being fed to lions or nailed to a cross I don't think we have it too rough.
Hear hear. The anti-Christian crowd is such a small minority that I'm not very sympathetic to people who get riled up by them. Honestly, it seems like the Christians who get so bent out of shape about what they can and can't do under the law are pretty much the exact same as the atheists who do the same.
As for the overall argument, there are some places where I don't give a shit if prayer or references to God is allowed, and some places I think it's wrong from a practical standpoint. Congress or the president can fellate Him all they want. Schools are a place where kids are formulating their own ideas about life, and they don't need The Man throwing religious beliefs into them. Pray at sporting events, but don't get annoyed if I don't stand/kneel/sit or take my hat off*. I don't care if the ten commandments or references to God are in a court house, but beginning with a prayer would be very problematic. As is so often the case, people tend to care too much about the principle of such things rather than the practical aspect.
*and combining it with the pledge of allegiance is in very poor taste.
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I'm more than a bit tired of everybody blaming a boogie man for ruining their pure and sacred traditions. From a biblical standpoint, December and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Jesus; atheism sucks year around; capitalism makes life better for everybody and has nothing to do with the "attack" on Christmas.
:lol
I don't know about that. I for one am not constantly trying to appease a mythological being.
Perhaps not. But living the fairy tale that God doesn't exist is just as bad.
:rollin :rollin
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Hear hear. The anti-Christian crowd is such a small minority that I'm not very sympathetic to people who get riled up by them. Honestly, it seems like the Christians who get so bent out of shape about what they can and can't do under the law are pretty much the exact same as the atheists who do the same.
The anti-Christian (or pro-political correctness/equality) crowd has more power than you think. For example: Last year many annual Christmas-related shows in my area of New England were cancelled due to the suggestively religious language in the songs and dialogue. That may seem small. But consider that the companies that make money from performing every year rely on that income. The humane side of it is that these shows have been staples in family annual traditions for the people of these affected communities. You really can't put a price on the joy and unity that family Christmas gatherings, shows, and music bring. Many non-Christian folks in my community were very upset and rightfully. Unfortunately, this is probably the beginning of some serious shit.
This is a very real thing.
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Hear hear. The anti-Christian crowd is such a small minority that I'm not very sympathetic to people who get riled up by them. Honestly, it seems like the Christians who get so bent out of shape about what they can and can't do under the law are pretty much the exact same as the atheists who do the same.
The anti-Christian (or pro-political correctness/equality) crowd has more power than you think. For example: Last year many annual Christmas-related shows in my area of New England were cancelled due to the suggestively religious language in the songs and dialogue. That may seem small. But consider that the companies that make money from performing every year rely on that income. The humane side of it is that these shows have been staples in family annual traditions for the people of these affected communities. You really can't put a price on the joy and unity that family Christmas gatherings, shows, and music bring. Many non-Christian folks in my community were very upset and rightfully. Unfortunately, this is probably the beginning of some serious shit.
This is a very real thing.
I would say that the problem lies with the producers of these shows who are so scared of a small, vocal minority than the minority itself. That was my point about the capitalist element. Everybody's got an opinion, and everybody thinks their opinion matters, but it really doesn't unless people become afraid of it. Retailers are afraid of scaring off potential customers who don't approve of "merry Christmas." Frankly, the problem is with the retailers for empowering them, and not the Scrooges.
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Hear hear. The anti-Christian crowd is such a small minority that I'm not very sympathetic to people who get riled up by them. Honestly, it seems like the Christians who get so bent out of shape about what they can and can't do under the law are pretty much the exact same as the atheists who do the same.
The anti-Christian (or pro-political correctness/equality) crowd has more power than you think. For example: Last year many annual Christmas-related shows in my area of New England were cancelled due to the suggestively religious language in the songs and dialogue. That may seem small. But consider that the companies that make money from performing every year rely on that income. The humane side of it is that these shows have been staples in family annual traditions for the people of these affected communities. You really can't put a price on the joy and unity that family Christmas gatherings, shows, and music bring. Many non-Christian folks in my community were very upset and rightfully. Unfortunately, this is probably the beginning of some serious shit.
This is a very real thing.
I would say that the problem lies with the producers of these shows who are so scared of a small, vocal minority than the minority itself. That was my point about the capitalist element. Everybody's got an opinion, and everybody thinks their opinion matters, but it really doesn't unless people become afraid of it. Retailers are afraid of scaring off potential customers who don't approve of "merry Christmas." Frankly, the problem is with the retailers for empowering them, and not the Scrooges.
I hear you, but in those cases it was the school district's decision to make, not the producers of the shows. Schools have obviously very high stature in a community, and for school districts to make those decisions it says alot.
I agree about the capitalist element. In this case though, maybe the shows were still paid by the school district even though they didn't perform last year. They won't be coming back though. I think the affect this has on capitalism is different than the affect it has on values, community, and things you can't really put a price on. When school's and local governments get behind this kind of absurd political correctness, you got some serioius issues.
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Well that seems to be a different mater. A public school shouldn't be putting on any Christmas plays that are suggestively religious. I was in plenty growing up, and they were as secular as could be, and everyone loved them. It's the school districts, and teachers, fault for not being able to write a Christmas play that isn't overly religious.
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I hear you, but in those cases it was the school district's decision to make, not the producers of the shows. Schools have obviously very high stature in a community, and for school districts to make those decisions it says alot.
It says that they did the right thing. There are plenty of organizations that can put on all the religious pageantry they wish, and I certainly wouldn't complain. There are plenty of Christmas stories the school can put on that don't push a singular religion onto people and I wouldn't complain. It goes back to the practical aspect that I referred to earlier.
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I'm all for phrases like Happy Holidays, because there are people other faiths who are celebrating things at that time of year other than Christmas. I want everyone to be happy, so if I don't know which one you may be celebrating, I am likely to say Happy Holidays.
But I'm not crazy about a Christmas tree being anything other than a Christmas tree. That's what it has always been called, and I see no reason to change it now. AFAIK, decorating a tree isn't a tradition of any of the other Wintertime celebrations, only Christmas, so it should be called a Christmas tree. And don't give me a lecture about the pagan origins of the tree, because I'm not talking about Christian Christmas, but normal capitalist American secular Christmas.
Also, my daughter's school had a Fall celebration on October 31st instead of a Halloween party, and I dunno WTF that was about.
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So much of the nations economy hinges on Christmas shopping every November through December. We all know Christmas is whats being promoted be it religious or secular. If you get that offended by Merry Christmas I would say its a personal problem. Move on. If someone wants to say Happy Kwaanza to me I will say, hey thanks!
:tick2:
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I'm all for phrases like Happy Holidays, because there are people other faiths who are celebrating things at that time of year other than Christmas. I want everyone to be happy, so if I don't know which one you may be celebrating, I am likely to say Happy Holidays.
But I'm not crazy about a Christmas tree being anything other than a Christmas tree. That's what it has always been called, and I see no reason to change it now. AFAIK, decorating a tree isn't a tradition of any of the other Wintertime celebrations, only Christmas, so it should be called a Christmas tree. And don't give me a lecture about the pagan origins of the tree, because I'm not talking about Christian Christmas, but normal capitalist American secular Christmas.
Also, my daughter's school had a Fall celebration on October 31st instead of a Halloween party, and I dunno WTF that was about.
You are absolutely right. Christmas has more or less returned to it's non-Christian traditions and been absorbed back into the now dominant culture/multi-culture. I also see no reason to call it anything different as definitions change all the time. In reality it is a day of celebration, if someone chooses to celebrate Jesus' birthday on that date that is fine. If Hindus want to celebrate Adi Shakti, be all means do so. Jews might even want to celebrate killing Jesus' (JOKING!).
You know what is worse when people get angry because someone says Happy Holidays. Sometimes it's not to be non-Christmas, sometimes it's just to wish someone happy holidays. It is plural and not singular like Merry Christmas.
The Halloween thing was probably so people wouldn't get there genitals in a knot about the common misconception about worshiping demons, devil, spirits etc...
So much of the nations economy hinges on Christmas shopping every November through December. We all know Christmas is whats being promoted be it religious or secular. If you get that offended by Merry Christmas I would say its a personal problem. Move on. If someone wants to say Happy Kwaanza to me I will say, hey thanks!
:tick2:
Agreed.
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Both of Dr. Spock's children are alive and well. Neither of them committed suicide. While I already thought most of the post was bullshit, finding out that whoever wrote it was having to add falsehoods to back up their position makes it far more worthless than it already was.
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I do not understand why anyone give a flying hoot about Ben Stein. He already displayed his lack of perspective with his ID movie, and then he became the spokesperson for a money scam company (freecreditscore.com).
rumborak
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I like what anne grahm had to say about hurricane Katrina. Makes sense,
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I do not understand why anyone give a flying hoot about Ben Stein. He already displayed his lack of perspective with his ID movie, and then he became the spokesperson for a money scam company (freecreditscore.com).
rumborak
Win Ben Stein's money was a good game show.
That's all I got.
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I do not understand why anyone give a flying hoot about Ben Stein. He already displayed his lack of perspective with his ID movie, and then he became the spokesperson for a money scam company (freecreditscore.com).
rumborak
Win Ben Stein's money was a good game show.
That's all I got.
It made him look smart. That's actually his biggest problem. He actually is a pretty bright guy, which makes his only excuse for some of his fairly shallow opinions that he's a liar or shill. Pretty much what I think about Dennis Miller, as well.
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I think his ID movie showed that his honesty doesn't go as far as his convictions go. The means justify the end, essentially.
rumborak
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Reminds me of this little debate, when Stein called Ron Paul an anti-semite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyMh15fEKRI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyMh15fEKRI)
I can't take Stein seriously.
Maybe it was further along in the exchange but I hear him say "This is the same antisemitic argument we've been hearing..." which isn't the same as saying "You are an anti-Semite."
Although he's full of shit either way...
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I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.
What the fuck kind of America is he living in? Last time I checked, Christians were still on the beneficial side of religious favoritism in this country.
Ah well, Stein isn't a guy to take very seriously regardless.
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What the fuck kind of America is he living in? Last time I checked, Christians were still on the beneficial side of religious favoritism in this country.
:lol Well, given that he's Jewish, I don't think that any "religious favoritism" shown to Christians is relevant (if it even existed).
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:lol Well, given that he's Jewish, I don't think that any "religious favoritism" shown to Christians is relevant (if it even existed).
Same thing, right? :neverusethis:
Sloppy memory on my part, sorry about that, got him confused somehow. I probably should have read the whole thing to refresh.
Edit: Holy shit. The first line. I should probably just stop posting now.
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:rollin Forgot that he mentioned it in the very first line, but yeah. Oh well... :)