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General => Movies and TV => Topic started by: MetalJunkie on October 10, 2011, 05:32:11 PM
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I've never seen it. Not a single episode. I'm watching the first one right now. Apparently jet engines explode when guys get sucked into them. Wings explode when they fall. Is this JJ Abrams or Michael Bay?
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I think it's just "hey look at what an awesome budget we have for a tv pilot!!" which at that time was pretty impressive. LOST, like everything these days it seems like, is one of those love it or hate it things and (like everything these days it seems like) it's way cooler to hate it. But I'm just going to go ahead right now and announce that I love LOST, warts and all. It's my favorite TV show of all time. I enjoyed every episode of every season, and thought the series finale was wonderful. Dissenters shall continue to dissent.
4+8+15+16+23+42 = man I miss that show!
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The fourth episode is some of the best writing in a single episode that TV has ever seen.
(That's "Walkabout" for reference)
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I've never seen it. Not a single episode. I'm watching the first one right now. Apparently jet engines explode when guys get sucked into them. Wings explode when they fall. Is this JJ Abrams or Michael Bay?
.... it gets better man. :lol
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Best show ever made. And yes, watch through Walkabout until deciding whether to continue or not.
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Stop after season 3. It'll be a much better experience for you, trust me.
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I've never seen it. Not a single episode. I'm watching the first one right now. Apparently jet engines explode when guys get sucked into them. Wings explode when they fall. Is this JJ Abrams or Michael Bay?
.... it gets better man. :lol
This. It's probably my favorite TV show of all time. I was hooked for all 6 seasons.
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The guy getting sucked into the jet engine is the best part of the pilot. If you're too concerned about reality, you shouldn't be watching Lost ;)
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Stop after season 3. It'll be a much better experience for you, trust me.
Change that to after season 4 and I'm okay with it.
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The guy getting sucked into the jet engine is the best part of the pilot. If you're too concerned about reality, you shouldn't be watching Lost ;)
Dear God, I've always hated this argument with a passion. I don't care what universe it is. Every object should behave on screen as it normally would in real life (possibly with the exception of sci-fi tech), unless it has magical properties or something is supernaturally causing it to do otherwise. It's like if Luke shot the death star and it turned into a giant cinnamon bun. Problem? Obviously. Oh wait, fuckin magical muppets liftin' shit out of the swamp - spontaneous cinnamon bunnage must be okay.
Well-placed supernatural events don't excuse retarded physics.
That being said, that's my counter to the "if you're concerned about reality" argument, not "Lost" in general. I plan to keep watching the show, but I can't see the aforementioned argument and not say anything about it.
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The guy getting sucked into the jet engine is the best part of the pilot. If you're too concerned about reality, you shouldn't be watching Lost ;)
Dear God, I've always hated this argument with a passion. I don't care what universe it is. Every object should behave on screen as it normally would in real life (possibly with the exception of sci-fi tech), unless it has magical properties or something is supernaturally causing it to do otherwise. It's like if Luke shot the death star and it turned into a giant cinnamon bun. Problem? Obviously. Oh wait, fuckin magical muppets liftin' shit out of the swamp - spontaneous cinnamon bunnage must be okay.
Well-placed supernatural events don't excuse retarded physics.
That being said, that's my counter to the "if you're concerned about reality" argument, not "Lost" in general. I plan to keep watching the show, but I can't see the aforementioned argument and not say anything about it.
My statement still stands. You're watching a work of complete and total fiction that, as you will soon see, bends all sorts of logic issues that you will either find ludicrous and hokey or accept and enjoy as entertainment.
And to be fair, your example is exaggerated. 90% of people would likely not sit there and dwell on the factual properties of a human body being able to blow up a jet engine. The Death Star turning to a cinnamon bun? Weak.
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I've never seen it. Not a single episode. I'm watching the first one right now. Apparently jet engines explode when guys get sucked into them. Wings explode when they fall. Is this JJ Abrams or Michael Bay?
.... it gets better man. :lol
This. It's probably my favorite TV show of all time. I was hooked for all 6 seasons.
Along with X-Files, Lost is also my all-time favourite TV show. Well-worth watching, though it does take a long time to get any answers as to what the heck is going on.
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Lost was my favorite show until I saw The Wire, The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Mad Men, etc.
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Breaking Bad just passed LOST on my list of favorite shows. I love LOST. If I had to rank the seasons:
5
1
4
2
6
3
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2, 3
1
4
5
6
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6 was slow from the start, but those last few episodes, excluding "Across The Sea" were awesome.
The best of the season was Ab Aeterno
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The guy getting sucked into the jet engine is the best part of the pilot. If you're too concerned about reality, you shouldn't be watching Lost ;)
Dear God, I've always hated this argument with a passion. I don't care what universe it is. Every object should behave on screen as it normally would in real life (possibly with the exception of sci-fi tech), unless it has magical properties or something is supernaturally causing it to do otherwise. It's like if Luke shot the death star and it turned into a giant cinnamon bun. Problem? Obviously. Oh wait, fuckin magical muppets liftin' shit out of the swamp - spontaneous cinnamon bunnage must be okay.
Well-placed supernatural events don't excuse retarded physics.
That being said, that's my counter to the "if you're concerned about reality" argument, not "Lost" in general. I plan to keep watching the show, but I can't see the aforementioned argument and not say anything about it.
I once read a review on amazon of a book that said, 'It was like just because the author was writing fiction, he thought he could make up whatever he wanted to.'
How can you not want to punch that guy? IT'S ENTERTAINMENT.
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Stop after season 3. It'll be a much better experience for you, trust me.
Why? I have yet to watch this show apart from the pilot many years ago (I also remember the guy getting sucked into the engine).
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The whole dynamic of the show begins to change by that point, plus the way it ends is absolutely perfect. The last three seasons seem hellbent on answering questions just to appease the audience and introduce ridiculous mythology that was just too uninteresting for me. The show changes from being a really cool survival show about the characters that takes place on a crazy island to a show about the crazy island.
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4+8+15+16+23+42 = man I miss that show!
me too :-\
Favorite show ever, easily...
Season 1 was by far the best, but hey I still enjoy the hell out of Octavarium even though it's not I&W :smiley:
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And to be fair, your example is exaggerated. 90% of people would likely not sit there and dwell on the factual properties of a human body being able to blow up a jet engine. The Death Star turning to a cinnamon bun? Weak.
https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole
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Oh come on, nobody uses hyperbole on the internet!!!
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Fucking jump scares. Ugh. I'm fat - my heart rate is high enough as it is.
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The fourth episode is some of the best writing in a single episode that TV has ever seen.
(That's "Walkabout" for reference)
Ugh. No it doesn't.
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I watched through the entire series a few months back, the earlier seasons were way better but I just had to see how it ends. It does get really silly towards the end but I still enjoyed it, after the smoke monster thingy I pretty much stopped caring if it was realistic or not.
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Best TV show ever. I understand the hate towards the ending but I still think it was awesome. And I do agree that chapter 4 of the first season is the one that hooks you up. I don't remember what the hell it is about but I know that after that one I was completley unable to stop watching.
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The show used a story telling style that infuriated watchers. I both loved and hated the show at the same time.
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Wow, this thread died fast. Right now I'm just starting the 8th episode, which is apparently Sawyer's. I like the show, but I really don't give a fuck about his character.
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I cried when it was all over. Also, Through the Looking Glass, the season three finale... Best. Episode. Ever.
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The fourth episode is some of the best writing in a single episode that TV has ever seen.
(That's "Walkabout" for reference)
Best show ever made. And yes, watch through Walkabout until deciding whether to continue or not.
I've never seen it. Not a single episode. I'm watching the first one right now. Apparently jet engines explode when guys get sucked into them. Wings explode when they fall. Is this JJ Abrams or Michael Bay?
.... it gets better man. :lol
This. It's probably my favorite TV show of all time. I was hooked for all 6 seasons.
I watched through the entire series a few months back, the earlier seasons were way better but I just had to see how it ends. It does get really silly towards the end but I still enjoyed it, after the smoke monster thingy I pretty much stopped caring if it was realistic or not.
Best TV show ever. I understand the hate towards the ending but I still think it was awesome. And I do agree that chapter 4 of the first season is the one that hooks you up. I don't remember what the hell it is about but I know that after that one I was completley unable to stop watching.
The show used a story telling style that infuriated watchers. I both loved and hated the show at the same time.
I cried when it was all over. Also, Through the Looking Glass, the season three finale... Best. Episode. Ever.
i agree with all of this.
Wow, this thread died fast. Right now I'm just starting the 8th episode, which is apparently Sawyer's. I like the show, but I really don't give a fuck about his character.
oh boy will that change... he became easily my favorite character that I cared about the most.
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Is there an explanation for Locke? Somebody at a box company doesn't just wake up with fixed legs and become the best hunter/tracker ever. Something has to be going on.
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Is there an explanation for Locke? Somebody at a box company doesn't just wake up with fixed legs and become the best hunter/tracker ever. Something has to be going on.
Yes.
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[SPOILERS]Locke is a robot[/SPOILERS]
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I cried when it was all over. Also, Through the Looking Glass, the season three finale... Best. Episode. Ever.
That's the one where *that thing happened* rght? Yes I agree for sure. Best episode of the series.
edited for spoilers
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I cried when it was all over. Also, Through the Looking Glass, the season three finale... Best. Episode. Ever.
post
You should delete that post for the sake of the guy who is watching the show currently. Considering its his thread.
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well should should probably edit the quote to :P
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Forgot quotes don't auto update.
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One of my favorite shows. Haters gonna hate.
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Wow, this thread died fast. Right now I'm just starting the 8th episode, which is apparently Sawyer's. I like the show, but I really don't give a fuck about his character.
That should change after watching his first centric episode. That's kind of the theme of season 1, introducing you to all of these characters and finding out that most of them are not who/what they appear to be.
I'd love to keep this thread alive, I absolutely adore this show and could talk about it forever!
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The first Sawyer episode is pretty bad.
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Really? I think it sets up the basic themes of his character that play out over the course of the series pretty well. Namely (and hopefully MetalJunkie has watched it by now so this isn't spoilery):
He's a con man.
Despite his dumb redneck facade he's actually quite clever.
Despite his I don't give a shit about anybody but myself facade he actually has quite the soft spot.
Also, I can't remember exactly, but doesn't it introduce the whole backstory of his parents and his letter he carries around and all that?
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Can't tell if monster is invisible, or if camera is pulling a Home Improvement "Wilson" style shot.
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I sort of wish that it was invisible.
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Fuck this Ethan guy.
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There is no Ethan, only Rapeface.
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ethan's cool -- he was the mousy looking bad guy in Mission Impossible 2
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God damn I fucking loved lost. It's really a great show once you get into it, I'm going to have to rewatch it really soon.
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The name of the actor who played Ethan is William Mapother. :eek
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The whole dynamic of the show begins to change by that point, plus the way it ends is absolutely perfect. The last three seasons seem hellbent on answering questions just to appease the audience and introduce ridiculous mythology that was just too uninteresting for me. The show changes from being a really cool survival show about the characters that takes place on a crazy island to a show about the crazy island.
Yup. Season 3's finale is the real Series finale for me.
As much as I enjoyed the show the first time, seasons 5 and 6 suck. If you don't believe me, rewatch them.
The first season is outstanding stuff. 2 and 3 are also pretty damn good. Then it really goes downhill except for a few episodes here and there.
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Yea seasons 5 and 6 kinda went downhill but I really enjoyed the finale
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I would agree that seasons 4-6 are not as good as seasons 1-3, but I would not go as far as to say they "suck." Then again I'm not as quick to label things that are inferior to their predecessors as "sucking" as a lot of citizens of the internet are. They're still Lost and they're still great, and I also enjoyed the series finale very much. I've always compared Lost to a Stephen King epic (and on a side note he was a big fan of the show and the show runners were big fans of his). Great ensemble cast of interesting characters with well-developed back stories. An epic sci-fi fantasy story that's really about the human relationships and stories of the characters. Gets a little convoluted and silly toward the end, maybe not wrapped up in the best way possible, but when it's all said and done it's hard to say you didn't enjoy the work as a whole. That's my take anyway.
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I would agree that seasons 4-6 are not as good as seasons 1-3, but I would not go as far as to say they "suck." Then again I'm not as quick to label things that are inferior to their predecessors as "sucking" as a lot of citizens of the internet are. They're still Lost and they're still great, and I also enjoyed the series finale very much. I've always compared Lost to a Stephen King epic (and on a side note he was a big fan of the show and the show runners were big fans of his). Great ensemble cast of interesting characters with well-developed back stories. An epic sci-fi fantasy story that's really about the human relationships and stories of the characters. Gets a little convoluted and silly toward the end, maybe not wrapped up in the best way possible, but when it's all said and done it's hard to say you didn't enjoy the work as a whole. That's my take anyway.
well said Hugo
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I was kinda with you up until the back story part. The way they handled the time travel and Jacob/Man In Black origin story was one of the biggest cases of writers not being able to handle a storyline I've ever seen.
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Seems like the Shannon/Sayid romance is kinda forced. Also, I have a feeling something strange is up with Locke. I just started the episode where Jack went looking for him after Boone's death.
Edit: I also love the fact that for Sawyer's glasses they had to melt two different frames together. I think a lot of writers would have missed out on that part, implying vision problems are symmetrical.
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The more I watch, the more I like every character. Except Michael.
"Walt! Waaaaaaalt! WAAAAAAAAALT Waaaaaaalt!"
Jesus, dude. Shut the fuck up.
Edit:
Holy shit. Shannon just got shot. Awkwaaard...
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The more I watch, the more I like every character. Except Michael.
"Walt! Waaaaaaalt! WAAAAAAAAALT Waaaaaaalt!"
Jesus, dude. Shut the fuck up.
Edit:
Holy shit. Shannon just got shot. Awkwaaard...
man you are REALLY going to hate Michael later in season 2...
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I'm 7 episodes into Season 2 right now. At this point the raft has been broken up and Walt has been kidnapped. Shannon kept seeing Walt at various places on the island, and she was just shot.
That's where I'm at right now. You're telling me it gets worse?
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I'm 7 episodes into Season 2 right now. At this point the raft has been broken up and Walt has been kidnapped. Shannon kept seeing Walt at various places on the island, and she was just shot.
That's where I'm at right now. You're telling me it gets worse?
you have no idea
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Michael gets very horrible/annoying in season 2.
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He just talked to his kid on the computer.
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:laugh: :tup
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Man... I completely disagree with the "Season 1 was the best!" attitude. I thought Season 1 was by far the worst. In fact, I thought each Season was better than the last until Season 6, which sorta took a step backwards (although I thought the ending was perfect).
Season 1 was boring as fuck.
edit: Also - didn't there used to be an epically long Lost thread somewhere around here? I remember posting in it pretty much every week during the last couple of seasons. I guess maybe it got trimmed away at some point? :'(
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Season 1 is the most dear to my heart because it was what got me into the show and blew my mind into infinite tiny particles. I bought the dvd set at Costco the summer it came out along with a case of red bulls and a handle of vodka, then called out sick to work the next day so I could finish the whole thing. Every season after that I had to watch in real time on tv and the waiting between episodes/seasons was painful, so season 1 was my most enjoyable/memorable viewing experience. But I love them all, I just have to throw in some criticism so all the other internet kids will think I'm cool and have unrealistically high standards about every minute detail of the universe too! Lost is my favorite show of all time, ALL TIME! and I could talk/gush/preach/pontificate about it all day every day if you guys wanted me to!
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...really about the human relationships and stories of the characters.
Exactly this. Which is one of the reasons I like the later seasons better. I feel like like the characters gained so much more depth and complexity as the seasons went on.
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Disagreed. The characterizations in Season 1 destroy any from the rest of the series, especially in terms of relatively smarter writing and interesting stories. The stuff in the later seasons was a criminal dismantling and unnecessary toying with almost every single major character save for maybe Hurley, Sun and Jin. The show turned from a group of people you might actually want to care about into cartoonish versions of themselves making inane decisions.
I'm wondering if I'd have the same opinions had I watched the show from the very beginning into of plowing through it in a few weeks. The former might've allowed me to marinate on some things though doing it the latter (the way MJ is) showcases a pretty clear quality decline in the later seasons from every aspect of the show.
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Idunno... it's been a while since I've watched Season 1, but I think Locke and maybe Charlie were really the only characters I found all that interesting in Season 1. Sawyer ended up being one of my favorite characters (and one of the most interesting), but I couldn't stand him in Season 1. I always thought of Jack as just as annoying tool until the later seasons, and the best character in the entire series (Ben) didn't even show up until halfway through Season 2 and didn't become a regular until Season 3...
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Half-way through Season 2. What the fuck is Charlie thinking? He's gonna try to be a dad while simultaneously toting around heroin? Hell, it doesn't even matter if he's not using; he was using in the past, so the thought of even keeping it near him should never have crossed his mind.
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Half-way through Season 2. What the fuck is Charlie thinking? He's gonna try to be a dad while simultaneously toting around heroin? Hell, it doesn't even matter if he's not using; he was using in the past, so the thought of even keeping it near him should never have crossed his mind.
Charlie's an idiot.
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hated charlie. easily my least favorite character
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Really? Easily?! I loved Charlie. Least favorite character without a doubt was Michael.
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Lost was the best TV show I ever watched. Makes me kind of sad thinking back how awesome it was not knowing what the hell was going on. I want to be lost again, see awesome episodes like 'The Constant' and the season 3 finale ('Through the Looking Glass'), cry over some things and be blown away by pure awesomeness.
Damn, I miss that show.
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I'm right there with you Elite. I'd say Through the Looking Glass is my favorite episode of the series and The Constant is right up there. TTLG is just pure awesomeness from start to finish, and if it wasn't dusty in your living room at the end of The Constant then you need to go see the wizard about a heart!
Pretty much you can't go wrong with any of the season finales or the Desmond-centric episodes.
Or any of the episodes for that matter! :lol
Yes, I even found Expose quite entertaining. I'm like the opposite of a hater. So what does that make me? That's right baby- I'm a lover. :hat :heart
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Really? Easily?! I loved Charlie. Least favorite character without a doubt was Michael.
lets just say that charlie made me enjoy michael screaming WALLLLTTTTT every 5 seconds
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Really? Easily?! I loved Charlie. Least favorite character without a doubt was Michael.
lets just say that charlie made me enjoy michael screaming WALLLLTTTTT every 5 seconds
Lol. Michael made me want to do heroin with Charlie.
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Really? Easily?! I loved Charlie. Least favorite character without a doubt was Michael.
lets just say that charlie made me enjoy michael screaming WALLLLTTTTT every 5 seconds
Lol. Michael made me want to do heroin with Charlie.
:rollin
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I really really miss LOST. Best show ever, even if the later seasons weren't as up to par as the earlier ones. At least the show didn't end where it began--I would've been super uber pissed if they'd ended it like that.
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At least the show didn't end where it began--I would've been super uber pissed if they'd ended it like that.
Since I've only made it just a little more than halfway through Season 2, I'm going to assume I'm better off not asking what you mean by this?
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I really really miss LOST. Best show ever, even if the later seasons weren't as up to par as the earlier ones. At least the show didn't end where it began--I would've been super uber pissed if they'd ended it like that.
Best show ever?
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I really really miss LOST. Best show ever, even if the later seasons weren't as up to par as the earlier ones. At least the show didn't end where it began--I would've been super uber pissed if they'd ended it like that.
Best show ever?
Yes. Best show ever.
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Watch more shows.
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At least the show didn't end where it began--I would've been super uber pissed if they'd ended it like that.
Since I've only made it just a little more than halfway through Season 2, I'm going to assume I'm better off not asking what you mean by this?
Don't worry. I'm not really sure what she means either...
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At least the show didn't end where it began--I would've been super uber pissed if they'd ended it like that.
Since I've only made it just a little more than halfway through Season 2, I'm going to assume I'm better off not asking what you mean by this?
Don't worry. I'm not really sure what she means either...
I think she means it somewhat literally... (along the lines of Steven King's Dark Tower series maybe?). I feel like that was one of the theories floating around at the time. Don't wanna get into any more detail than that though for people who haven't made it to the end yet.
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I think she means it somewhat literally... (along the lines of Steven King's Dark Tower series maybe?). I feel like that was one of the theories floating around at the time. Don't wanna get into any more detail than that though for people who haven't made it to the end yet.
Yes, but since OP hasn't made it that far yet I didn't want to spell it out like that.
And I would think that since I'm 41, I've watched PLENTY of bad TV and I happen to think that LOST IS the best show ever IMO. So, no, I don't feel like I "need" to watch more shows, tyvm. :)
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You could watch The Wire and completely ruin any other drama show you'll watch from then on out.
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I could. Doesn't necessarily mean that I will, though.
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Lost is the best show I've ever watched; it's only rivaled by Dexter and Six Feet Under. Seasons 1-5 were incredible. The cliffhangers were better than any other show I've watched by far, especially the ones at the end of each finale. Season 6 was okay, but the whole alternate timeline thing was a huge waste of time. And the explanations given for everything were complete cop-outs. I wasn't expecting a huge game-changer or anything, but I hoped that they'd at least try to keep it pseudo-realistic like they had been doing for so long. So I like to pretend that Season 5's finale (which was fantasic, almost as good as Season 3's) is the end of the show.
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It's not suppose to be an alternate timeline, but I know what you mean.
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Something I just thought of... We should label spoiler text with the season so I know which ones I should avoid.
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Something I just thought of... We should label spoiler text with the season so I know which ones I should avoid.
The little font Metrovarium and I used are for season 6, so definitely avoid.
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(Season 3, Ep 3)
So Jack, Sawyer, and Kate have been captured by "the others." Sawyer and Kate are breaking apart rocks and Jack's chilling in an aquarium. There's been hardly any plot progression and these last two episodes have been extremely boring. There's been no questions answered, no new questions, no forward progression, and only flashbacks. For fuck's sake, something needs to happen soon before I fall asleep. Season 2 ended on such a high note, it'd be neat if Season 3 started on one.
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Give it some time. It may start a little slow but it will surprise you.
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(Season 3, Ep 3)
So Jack, Sawyer, and Kate have been captured by "the others." Sawyer and Kate are breaking apart rocks and Jack's chilling in an aquarium. There's been hardly any plot progression and these last two episodes have been extremely boring. There's been no questions answered, no new questions, no forward progression, and only flashbacks. For fuck's sake, something needs to happen soon before I fall asleep. Season 2 ended on such a high note, it'd be neat if Season 3 started on one.
What Nekov said... I enjoyed first two seasons but 3 and 4 were way better.... I wish I was watching the show for the first time now!
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(Season 3, Ep 3)
So Jack, Sawyer, and Kate have been captured by "the others." Sawyer and Kate are breaking apart rocks and Jack's chilling in an aquarium. There's been hardly any plot progression and these last two episodes have been extremely boring. There's been no questions answered, no new questions, no forward progression, and only flashbacks. For fuck's sake, something needs to happen soon before I fall asleep. Season 2 ended on such a high note, it'd be neat if Season 3 started on one.
When Season 3 aired they did the first 6 episodes each week with no repeats, dubbing it a "mini-season" and then had a long hiatus from like November to January or February when the show resumed. We didn't like it, because those first 6 episdoes were pretty slow, then we had to wait months for the show to come back and get interesting. Starting with season 4 the show just premiered in January or February instead of the fall so they could get a good jump on filming and not have any (or at least not many) repeat weeks during the season. Anyway, yeah Season 3 starts out pretty slow, but I think most fans would agree that the finale of Season 3 is the high point of the series. Also, the first couple of episodes after those initial 6 are freaking amazing, especially the Desmond-centric episode 8- "Flashes Before Your Eyes." I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about when that first aired!
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The gap in season three really stunk for those of us who watched in on tv, I bet season 3 feels a lot different for those who watched it at thier own pace on DVD or streaming.
To me, Seasons 1 and 2 were the best, but I really enjoyed seasons 4 and season 6. I know most people didnt love season 6, but I liked it a lot and I found a lot of closure with the final few episodes. IMO, probably one of the best ends to a show ever.
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Season 3 almost made me quit watching. Those first few episodes are so godawful boring, but, as previously said, it gets much better. Holy fuck is the second half of Season 3 so much better.
Seasons 4, 5, and 6 I think were pretty good, although Season 6 has some stinkers. Season 4, in particular, was really good. The change to their new format really helped the show, IMO.
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HOW THE FUCK DOES DESMOND KNOW THE FUTURE WHAT THE FUUUUUUUU
(don't tell me)
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Couldn't even if I wanted to.
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He was abducted by aliens when he was a wee lad, brothah.
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He was abducted by aliens when he was a wee lad, brothah.
BROTHAHHHHHHHH
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Every time Hurley talks, he cracks me up.
Sawyer: Son of a... What's a head doin' back here?!
Hurley: Oh. That's just Roger.
:rollin
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Every time Hurley talks, he cracks me up.
Sawyer: Son of a... What's a head doin' back here?!
Hurley: Oh. That's just Roger.
:rollin
That episode is nothing short of brilliant because of those conversations.
"Shut up... red... neck... man." :lol
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Afterthought of the entire series:
Time-travel edit: After watching this show again it occured to me that Lost could be compared to the Dream Theater SFAM -> Octavarium album run. The sixth season starts with the afterlife which, through logical chronology is immediately what happens after the very last scene of that season. Five consecutive seasons and the last one ends where it began. Anyone else caught this or am I just going too far with this?
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I loved lost but I haven't watched it again since it finished. It definitely went shit after season three/four. I cried loads during different points.
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Big lost fan here. I even have a dharma t shirt but best show ever??? The 6th season made sure that wasn't the case. The sopranos, wire, breaking bad, etc... Are better shows by far.
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John Locke is the best character for sure.
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Big lost fan here. I even have a dharma t shirt but best show ever??? The 6th season made sure that wasn't the case. The sopranos, wire, breaking bad, etc... Are better shows by far.
Sopranos went to crap as well by the 6th season... Still need to check out The Wire.
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The Wire stays consistent throughout as well as spoiling you as far as any other dramatic TV show you'll ever watch.
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It's a good show worth watching all the way through, but it gets a bit convoluted towards the end which becomes slightly apparent in the finale. If you have Netflix... and like Lost, I'd recommend watching some of these newer shows as well: Prison Break, 24, Life on Mars, Flash Foward, The Event, Lie to Me, Psych, FireFly and it's accompanying movie Serenity. They are all great shows with many of the same actors/writers involved.
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The Wire stays consistent throughout as well as spoiling you as far as any other dramatic TV show you'll ever watch.
I've been meaning to watch that, guess I'll start it after I'm done with Breaking Bad.
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The Event and Flashforward were awesome shows, sadly cancelled.
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The Event was cancelled?? :censored :'(
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I have no proof, but thats what I had heard right around the time of the season finale. Im at work, but maybe a google search can confirm or deny
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It was cancelled.
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Big lost fan here. I even have a dharma t shirt but best show ever??? The 6th season made sure that wasn't the case. The sopranos, wire, breaking bad, etc... Are better shows by far.
Sopranos went to crap as well by the 6th season... Still need to check out The Wire.
Excuuuuuuuuse me??????? 6th season was brilliant, incredible, magnificent.
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Big lost fan here. I even have a dharma t shirt but best show ever??? The 6th season made sure that wasn't the case. The sopranos, wire, breaking bad, etc... Are better shows by far.
Sopranos went to crap as well by the 6th season... Still need to check out The Wire.
Excuuuuuuuuse me??????? 6th season was brilliant, incredible, magnificent.
I dont think Ive ever heard any of those three words used to describe that season. I loved the Sopranos, and I watched and fairly enjoyed the last season, but come on, that season was terrible compared to the rest of the show.
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Terrible? The Vito storyline adde with the last episode = amazing.
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Dunno if this has been posted, but I didn't feel like searching. Anyways, I found it, and it's pretty cool.
**SPOILERS**
https://youtu.be/rrcF7dYADsw
**SPOILERS**
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Sawyer is the man!
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Easy there, Heart Collector.
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lol... love you loads....
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:-*
-
kiss you back :-* :-* :-*
-
kiss you back :-* :-* :-*
I'll deal with you shortly.
I think my favorite Lost character is Vincent. Phenomenal acting.
-
kiss you back :-* :-* :-*
I'll deal with you shortly.
Still waiting :P
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kiss you back :-* :-* :-*
I'll deal with you shortly.
Still waiting :P
Oh, really now? :hat
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kiss you back :-* :-* :-*
I'll deal with you shortly.
Still waiting :P
Oh, really now? :hat
yup... you and I need to have a discussion bout Sawyer :)
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Fine.
Sawyer is one hell of a character. One of my favorites, for sure.
Done.
Besides Vincent, Locke is my favorite. :tup
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Locke rocks :metal
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So does this poster:
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k625/flyingbizkit1/Resampled_2011-12-20_07-16-20_557.jpg)
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indeed!
Sayid looks so real :lol
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I know :lol
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Boy, Sayid sure can dance. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoLtHqS_LhA)
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So does this poster:
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k625/flyingbizkit1/Resampled_2011-12-20_07-16-20_557.jpg)
:yarr
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LOST! :metal
*feels like one of the few guys who actually enjoyed the Finale and the way everything was explained*
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I think everyones beef was they expected everything to be explained which just isn't feasible. It was great watching my diehard LOST fan friends angrily lose their shit though.
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I enjoyed the finale a lot, except for who got to kill Smocke which it should've never been who it was. But on the whole, season six was a major letdown.
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I also loved the finale and I'm one of the few who didn't think season 6 was a total letdown. The final explanation of what the island was all about and what had been going on all along was a little cheesy/far-fetched but I'm used to that sort of thing in stories like this (see my other post in this thread comparing LOST to a Stephen King epic). I got the impression that season 6 as a whole, and especially the whole "flash-sideways" alt-timeline thingy was really just a big curtain call. A chance for all of the characters big and small who we enjoyed over the course of the series to get a little more screen time so we could all say good-bye. Heck, I wouldn't have minded seeing Nikki and Paulo come back again, maybe just to be killed off again in spectaular fashion! It does bum me out though that the dude that played Mr. Eko wasn't down to come back for season 6. He was like the only main-ish character that was missing. Oh wells.
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i think season 5 is the worst
spoiler?
also they totally blew it with jacob. the man behind the curtain episode with the rocking chair/ voices was setting the storyline to be epic. and then once he's revealed. uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh k.
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i think season 5 is the worst
spoiler?
also they totally blew it with jacob. the man behind the curtain episode with the rocking chair/ voices was setting the storyline to be epic. and then once he's revealed. uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh k.
After all was said and done I was under the impression that that was Smokey/MIB in the cabin.
-
i think season 5 is the worst
spoiler?
also they totally blew it with jacob. the man behind the curtain episode with the rocking chair/ voices was setting the storyline to be epic. and then once he's revealed. uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh k.
After all was said and done I was under the impression that that was Smokey/MIB in the cabin.
yea it might have been, but once again i dont like the way they steered smokey either. we had two mysterious beings with infinite possibilities. i think they completely blew it having it boil down to the jacob and Man in Black we all know now
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i think season 5 is the worst
spoiler?
also they totally blew it with jacob. the man behind the curtain episode with the rocking chair/ voices was setting the storyline to be epic. and then once he's revealed. uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh k.
After all was said and done I was under the impression that that was Smokey/MIB in the cabin.
yea it might have been, but once again i dont like the way they steered smokey either. we had two mysterious beings with infinite possibilities. i think they completely blew it having it boil down to the jacob and Man in Black we all know now
I dig.
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You mean how they portrayed them or the actors playing them?
I had no problem with Mark Pellegrino, I think he's fantastic and I loved how ironic it was that the year before he was playing the devil in Supernatural and now was playing this god-like being on Lost.
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You mean how they portrayed them or the actors playing them?
I had no problem with Mark Pellegrino, I think he's fantastic and I loved how ironic it was that the year before he was playing the devil in Supernatural and now was playing this god-like being on Lost.
God-like being, heh. I think he was closer to being the devil than the MiB. Well, I guess that they just symbolize light and dark, but what's good and evil is a totally different question.
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True, but I meant as the Others saw him, which was as a deity.
-
What do you guys think of this theory? https://ericknowsitall.com/ultimate-lost-theory/
I think it's brilliant, but I'm not quite sure if it's intentional. That would be awesome as fuck though.
-
So, Amazon has the complete series box set for DVD/Blu-ray at $99 today.
-
And...you got it right?
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I couldn't let that pass!
-
My sister got the complete collection on bluray as well. Not sure how much though.
-
My box set got here, holy shit now I understand why I haven't seen this under $180!! It easily weighs 9 pounds and it's full of little nuggets for Lost fans! it was a fucking steal for $99!!
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Yeah, I think it's really cool. :tup
-
What do you guys think of this theory? https://ericknowsitall.com/ultimate-lost-theory/
I think it's brilliant, but I'm not quite sure if it's intentional. That would be awesome as fuck though.
That theory basically sums up everything. I don't care if the makers intended that theory to be correct, I'm going to use that now as my way of explaining Lost to people.
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My box set got here, holy shit now I understand why I haven't seen this under $180!! It easily weighs 9 pounds and it's full of little nuggets for Lost fans! it was a fucking steal for $99!!
A friend of mine got the plain ole DVD version of that collection a year or two back. We've been playing Senet as Jacob and the MiB (I'm Jacob) on Friday nights since fall 2010. :lol
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Complete with dialogue? :lol :lol
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I'm watching it for the first time now, about a quarter into season 2. Really like it so far! Haven't read anything else in the thread except the OP since I am afraid of spoilers.
-
Prepare for massive mindfucks Sander
-
Yep, in a short while you'll be going
(https://d37nnnqwv9amwr.cloudfront.net/entries/icons/original/000/004/592/my-brain-is-full-of-fuck.jpg)
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I am excite. Yesterday I watched 8 episodes :lol.
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Complete with dialogue? :lol :lol
Nothing too major, just like the stuff about loopholes and leaving the Island and stuff. :P
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If your Jacob, I guess your always losing. MiB did make the rules for the game. :P
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kez4qHS3OdM&feature=related (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kez4qHS3OdM&feature=related)
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:|
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(https://i.imgur.com/q6zCE.png)
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I am excite. Yesterday I watched 8 episodes :lol.
I hear ya.... I watched all the show in tens....
-
I watched them in elevens..
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well you're better then me :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kez4qHS3OdM&feature=related (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kez4qHS3OdM&feature=related)
that was brown kid's line :lol
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I laughed my arse off when I first saw these (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck_6fKAK-j0)
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I remember those :lol
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Those were pretty good, still nothing tops: https://youtu.be/r3g1ZjTfY28
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Holy shit I just laughed myself to death :rollin :rollin :rollin
-
:rollin :rollin
I was always partial to those vertical comics. This one being one of my favorites: (MAY BE A BIT SPOILERISH IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE SHOW)
https://chugginmonkeys.com/img/upload/lost_anti_locke_brakes_4be9c5c463db0.jpg
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:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
-
Holy crap :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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https://youtu.be/oj1CG30xF8Q
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question: Best Sawyer Nickname?
-
When he called Walt, "short brown"
-
Damn there was one which cracked me up..... cannot recall now....
-
When he called Walt, "short brown"
hahah i dont remember that. you sure it wasnt 'short round' from indiana jones?
i need to look for a little when i get home from work, im pretty sure there's a youtube video of a ton of them
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Jabba for Hurley was a good one as he was bullshitting bout it all the time.... oh Hurley :heart
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or_BGsW7Mgg
-
When he called Walt, "short brown"
hahah i dont remember that. you sure it wasnt 'short round' from indiana jones?
i need to look for a little when i get home from work, im pretty sure there's a youtube video of a ton of them
Maybe it was :lol
Either name could work, I suppose :rollin
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or_BGsW7Mgg
There's 'short brown' around 2:32.
-
the motherlist:
https://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Nicknames
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Oh it is short round :lol :lol
-
:lol
sawyer is definitely my favorite character on the show
-
Hurley "Dude" compilation!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAPKB6-DYOY
-
Damn.. it was awesome to remember these....
Captain falafel for Said and Crouching tiger and hidden dragon for Jin and Sun :lol :lol :lol
But nothing can beat Jackass for Jack :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Hurley: Number 1 Draft Pick
Kate: Freckles (classic)
Ben: Captain Bunny Killer
Desmond: Scotty
and then,
Richard: buddy...with the eyeliner
-
:lol
sawyer is definitely my favorite character on the show
absolutely!
-
Locke :metal
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Dude... Mr. Eko!
-
Didn't he get a DUI or something?
-
Dude compilation :lol
C'mon you have to stop it guys... I should have hit the hay ages ago!
-
Captain falafel :lol
-
My favorite Sawyer nickname's gotta be International House of Pancakes for Hurley. ;D
-
Didn't he also refer to Michael and Jin as Han & Chewie around the time when they were all buddy-buddy working on the raft together? I think Michael even did a "no, this one goes here, that one goes there" to Jin :lol
Jim LaFleur is the shizniz, for sure. On the same note though, wasn't it cool when Hurley finally had enough of his nickname bs and went crazy and tackled him? So many great character moments on this show...
-
"Don't get mad at me just because you were dumb enough to fall for the old Wookie prisoner gag"
-
All the Star Wars references were awesome .. But this totally eluded me:
Didn't he also refer to Michael and Jin as Han & Chewie around the time when they were all buddy-buddy working on the raft together? I think Michael even did a "no, this one goes here, that one goes there" to Jin :lol
:rollin :rollin :rollin
damn what a well thought-out show it was....
-
So, some of you know I received the box set a while back and decided to watch the whole show for a second time... I'm now on "Exposé"....
-
What a terrible episode. That ending is particularly chilling.
-
Oh yeah! This one and "Stranger in a Strange Land" are horrible!
-
I always dug Expose, it's a fun and silly episode it just doesn't do much to advance the main plot but whatever. As Lost fans we were just spoiled. Case in point: I remember being at my parent's house visiting with my mom and my aunt a few days after that one aired. My mom asked what she missed on Lost that week so I was basically telling her the story of the whole episode, with the disclaimer beforehand that it was a pretty stupid episode. My aunt, who didn't watch Lost, was on the edge of her seat the whole time and was like "this was a stupid episode? It sounds awesome!" :lol
-
So, some of you know I received the box set a while back and decided to watch the whole show for a second time... I'm now on "Exposé"....
I think I will do a second time view as well soon... well after these two days on this thread it seems to be a must!
-
ive been thinking about a second watch. i wish i could wipe my brain of lost and rewatch it for the first time. it was impossible to watch just one episode the first time through
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I think the backlash was more because these characters were just thrust upon us as "survivors of the crash" on the third season and everyone went "where the fuck did this guys come from?". By the third season, we knew the survivors, even the background ones who didn't have much screen time.
At least, that's how I view them the whole time.
-
I know, they were pointless- that's why they were given their own silly episode to be killed off in spectacular fashion!
-
I'm not reading any posts unless they are ones that quote me because I am really scared of spoilers - I guess one spoiler can ruin the entire rest of the show. Anyway, only have season finale of season 2 left to go. Season 3 is already in the mail :).
-
How I wish I were you now...
-
I'm not reading any posts unless they are ones that quote me because I am really scared of spoilers - I guess one spoiler can ruin the entire rest of the show. Anyway, only have season finale of season 2 left to go. Season 3 is already in the mail :).
YOU BETTER BE LOVING MR. EKO!!!
-
When lost ended with that 4 hour finale, I cried
6 years of my life just drained out of my heart.
-
ha ha I hear ya pal! :laugh:
-
I'm not reading any posts unless they are ones that quote me because I am really scared of spoilers - I guess one spoiler can ruin the entire rest of the show. Anyway, only have season finale of season 2 left to go. Season 3 is already in the mail :).
YOU BETTER BE LOVING MR. EKO!!!
How can you not love mr eko? My favorite characters atm are Sayid and Charlie. At episode 4 of season 3 right now.
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I'm not reading any posts unless they are ones that quote me because I am really scared of spoilers - I guess one spoiler can ruin the entire rest of the show. Anyway, only have season finale of season 2 left to go. Season 3 is already in the mail :).
YOU BETTER BE LOVING MR. EKO!!!
How can you not love mr eko? My favorite characters atm are Sayid and Charlie. At episode 4 of season 3 right now.
Episode 5 is sad for me.
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End of 3x08... :-X
-
End of 3x08... :-X
Desmond episodes are always some of the bests of the series!
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I don't know what 3x08 means lol
AAAAH I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH MYSELF WITHOUT LOST :(
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End of 3x08... :-X
Desmond episodes are always some of the bests of the series!
Oh yes! and you are nearing my favorite part of the show Voxyn....
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I don't know what 3x08 means lol
AAAAH I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH MYSELF WITHOUT LOST :(
"Flashes Before Your Eyes"
-
Who else here really enjoyed Ab Aeterno?
One of my favorite episodes.
However, Across The Sea was a major disappointment. I was hyped for that episode too :-\
-
Agreed on both accounts.
-
Ab Aeterno on its own was kinda neat. I kinda wish the show had done more episodes like that.
Really didn't like the characters of Man In Black and Jacob so many of those centric episodes in Season 6 were pure boredom, especially Across The Sea.
-
Ab Aeterno on its own was kinda neat. I kinda wish the show had done more episodes like that.
Really didn't like the characters of Man In Black and Jacob so many of those centric episodes in Season 6 were pure boredom, especially Across The Sea.
I think Season 6 was good, but it took a while for it to get better. The last few episodes, aside from ATS, were great.
Worst episode: Stranger In A Strange Land
-
Oh man I forgot about that one. I was going through LOST so fast I easily put that episode out of my mind.
-
It was so pointless :lol
Also, I fucking hated Nikki and Paulo.
-
It was so pointless :lol
WHAT?!?! But you know where Jack got his tattoos!!!!
-
It was so pointless :lol
WHAT?!?! But you know where Jack got his tattoos!!!!
:lol
-
Worst: Stranger in a Strange Land
Top 10 best:
10. Jughead
9. Flashes Before My Eyes
8. The Incident
7. Exodus
6. Ab Aeterno
5. Cabin Fever
4. Walkabout
3. The Constant
2. Through The Looking Glass
1. The End (YES COME AT ME)
-
I can dig that list Elite. Not sure I agree with it 100%, but I can dig it.
-
Goddamn, The Constant is such a fantastic episode!! You could say it's... bloody fantastic BROTHA!
-
I can dig that list Elite. Not sure I agree with it 100%, but I can dig it.
\o
what would yours be then? :)
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I can dig that list Elite. Not sure I agree with it 100%, but I can dig it.
\o
what would yours be then? :)
o/*
See that's the thing, I'm not sure. I'd have to put some thought in to it and get back to you.
-
Tonight, I am watching the season 3 finale ' through the looking glass (part 1 and 2)'. So excite!
-
One of the best episodes, if not the best.
-
Tonight, I am watching the season 3 finale ' through the looking glass (part 1 and 2)'. So excite!
Awesome episode!! Especially the cliffhanger ending!
-
awesome season finale... also you're nearing my fave season.... damn........
-
I just watched Through the looking Glass.
:omg:
-
You are now finished with LOST.
-
The show can't end like that.
-
I don't really mind the whole anticlimactic/not everything is explained kind of closure that shows and movies can have. As evidenced by the last three seasons of LOST I think it actually works in the show's benefit to end at the end of Season 3. I see it as: Jack screaming that they have to go back to the island as everyone else finally getting closure now that the ordeal is over but Jack is the only one who has suffered. Even with the opening of Season 4 where you get a recap of what the characters have been up to before they go back to the island it just feels like one of those unnecessary sequels.
-
Actually, it would be a pretty epic end. Don't mind some mystery.
Still watching the rest though.
-
I'm just starting the last episode now after powering through all 6 seasons. Never saw the show until a few months ago. I can't wait to immediately start watching it over again! What a ride this has been.
-
Wow, thanks for reviving this thread, Chino! I just started the series from the beginning on Netflix. I've seen the whole series before, but it's been a while and I'd forgotten how awesome it was. Although I wonder how much I'll enjoy the later seasons, as I was pretty frustrated with the show while it was still airing.
-
I'm a huge fan of the show. I still love it, and I'm planning to buy the huge box-set some day when I have loads of cash on hand.
-
There is only one thing I didn't understand ...
why didn't Ben go in the church in the finale? Was it because he wasn't on the plane that crashed? And also, where was Micahel?
-
I too just finished the show after not seeing it since the finale aired and even if it's sometimes gets a little too messy and ridiculous script wise it's still an amazing show. The well in depth backstory parts and episodes of all the characters and to follow their decisions and fate is what's really interests me.
-
I'm a huge fan of the show. I still love it, and I'm planning to buy the huge box-set some day when I have loads of cash on hand.
I bought it for $100. *shrugs*
-
To some of us, that's loads of cash.
-
What do you guys think of this theory? https://ericknowsitall.com/ultimate-lost-theory/
I think it's brilliant, but I'm not quite sure if it's intentional. That would be awesome as fuck though.
(https://blog.ancientlasers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Mind-Blown.jpg)
-
Currently reading this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Humanity-Mythology-Themes-LOST/dp/1463548702/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347897491&sr=8-1&keywords=Pearson+Moore
Pretty interesting read... Giving a whole new perspective to the entire show.
-
Currently reading this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Humanity-Mythology-Themes-LOST/dp/1463548702/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347897491&sr=8-1&keywords=Pearson+Moore
Pretty interesting read... Giving a whole new perspective to the entire show.
Ohh nice. Looks interesting!
-
What do you guys think of this theory? https://ericknowsitall.com/ultimate-lost-theory/
I think it's brilliant, but I'm not quite sure if it's intentional. That would be awesome as fuck though.
(https://blog.ancientlasers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Mind-Blown.jpg)
This. So far this theory is the one that makes more sense.
-
There is only one thing I didn't understand ...
why didn't Ben go in the church in the finale? Was it because he wasn't on the plane that crashed? And also, where was Micahel?
I've read a couple of ideas on the Ben thing. Everybody in the church sort of "needed" each other to find themselves and to finally be at peace with themselves and their lives, and to discover their purpose. I think Christian at one point said something to Jack along the lines of "these are the people with whom you've spent the most significant part of your life". They also seemed to make a point of showing everybody in the church being their with their constant. The only exceptions are Locke and Boone, but an argument could be made that Locke's constant was the island itself, and that both Sayid and Boone shared Shannon as their constant. Ben may have been excluded because, while his time with the island people was pretty important, it wasn't necessarily the most important thing he did in his life. The argument could be made that Ben's more important purpose was to raise and protect Alex. He failed to this on the island, but he was given a second chance in the sideways world, and he's dedicating his sideways world to that purpose. Possibly to the point where his constant is Alex. But he hasn't yet actually competed that task in the sideways world (hence Ben saying that he isn't coming into the church because he's still got work to do. As for Michael, I'm not quite as sure, but I think the idea is that his purgatory-type place was on the island itself when he was stuck in limbo, so he had to move on separately by reconnecting with Walt, which he presumably did after Hurley and Ben brought Walt back to the island.
-
There is only one thing I didn't understand ...
why didn't Ben go in the church in the finale? Was it because he wasn't on the plane that crashed? And also, where was Micahel?
I've read a couple of ideas on the Ben thing. Everybody in the church sort of "needed" each other to find themselves and to finally be at peace with themselves and their lives, and to discover their purpose. I think Christian at one point said something to Jack along the lines of "these are the people with whom you've spent the most significant part of your life". They also seemed to make a point of showing everybody in the church being their with their constant. The only exceptions are Locke and Boone, but an argument could be made that Locke's constant was the island itself, and that both Sayid and Boone shared Shannon as their constant. Ben may have been excluded because, while his time with the island people was pretty important, it wasn't necessarily the most important thing he did in his life. The argument could be made that Ben's more important purpose was to raise and protect Alex. He failed to this on the island, but he was given a second chance in the sideways world, and he's dedicating his sideways world to that purpose. Possibly to the point where his constant is Alex. But he hasn't yet actually competed that task in the sideways world (hence Ben saying that he isn't coming into the church because he's still got work to do. As for Michael, I'm not quite as sure, but I think the idea is that his purgatory-type place was on the island itself when he was stuck in limbo, so he had to move on separately by reconnecting with Walt, which he presumably did after Hurley and Ben brought Walt back to the island.
That makes sense. I thought maybe Ben had completely taken over the island and had not died yet. I thought maybe Hugo failed, or chose to pass the torch to Ben (which is all he seemed to want in life).
-
Interesting theory.
A lot of it does make sense and while it's pretty clear that the kernel of the idea was always there in the show, some of the choices, plotlines, characters and macguffins that were introduced (and some were summarily killed or dismissed) it's clear that they didn't really much of an idea of how to get there. A lot of that can be blamed on the nature of television programming but I think the writers are as deserving of some of the blame.
Still, despite my qualms, Lost was a very important series and one that was mostly enjoyable to experience as it played out. I need to do another watch of it sometime soon, but with both DS9 and Farscape on my plate right now, I'm not going to throw another television show into the mix. Plus, I'm extremely leery of both Seasons 2 and 3. I have a lot of bad memories from those seasons.
-
What do you guys think of this theory? https://ericknowsitall.com/ultimate-lost-theory/
I think it's brilliant, but I'm not quite sure if it's intentional. That would be awesome as fuck though.
This. So far this theory is the one that makes more sense.
Question about a bit in this article...
"This also explains why the smoke monster can only appear to people as things from their past: Jack’s dad, Kate’s horse, Ben’s mom, Richard’s wife (in the Black Rock), Mr. Eko’s brother, Yemi, etc…"
Didn't Walt also appear several times. He never spoke, but I remember him putting his finger to his lips and saying "shhh" (I think Hugo saw him). He wasn't dead....
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Well, they always said Walt was a special kid. Maybe the smoke monster could pose as him because of this, or maybe it wasn't the smoke monster at all.
I think there are quite a few things the article leaves out and to be honest there are so many things to analyze in that series that coming up with one theory that can fully explain everything is quite hard. I like the one in that article a lot but it's still missing stuff just like the one you mention. Have you read any explanation elsewhere on why Walt appears randomly on the island?
-
I always thought it was Walt's unconscious use of his "special-ness."
-
Either way... I hated Walt. His dad was a douche too.
-
Either way... I hated Walt. His dad was a douche too.
Michael became insufferable on season 2. Like, so!
-
I don't think the Smoke Monster was Walt. And he did speak a couple of times. SPOILERHe spoke to Locke when Locke was in the Dharma grave after Ben shot him. As far as to how he did that or whatever... I don't think that was ever really answered.
-
Season 3 has one of my favorite season finales ever. I do enjoy season 5, and Martin Keamy, but otherwise the second half kind of disappointed me, especially in season 6 where the fewer episodes we had left, the more and more I realised we weren't going to get as many answers as I wanted. Kind of makes me wonder what the original 23-24 episode seasons 4 & 5 would have been like had the writer's strike not derped everything.
-
Probably wouldn't have learned more. The writers requested an end date so they can put closure on the story. If they had those extra episodes, I doubt we would have gotten more answers. Although I bet season 3 would have been better overall.
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Currently re-watching Lost and finished S3 again. Through the Looking Glass might just be my favorite episode. (that one, The Constant and The End would be my top3 probably)
Jack to me was always a solid, but not one of my favorite characters, but upon re-watching it, I enjoy him more, and Matthew Fox's performance in Through the Looking Glass is brilliant. The ending when you realize it takes place forward in time and not backwards is perfectly done, and the scene is just so effective. All the clever setups before worked so well. "WE HAVE TO GO BACK"
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I can't wait to watch this show again some day.
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I can't wait to watch this show again some day.
Yea, I'd really like to as well, but I don't know when I'll find the time. I have a hard enough time keeping up with active shows.
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I recently watched all six seasons and loved it. What is everyone's opinion on the ending?
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I recently watched all six seasons and loved it. What is everyone's opinion on the ending?
I had no issues with it. It wasn't the best ending, but I enjoyed it overall. I know a lot of people didn't like it though.
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It's definitely one of my favorite finales ever. I hear people rave over the Breaking Bad finale, but to me that was a fairly underwhelming one, because everything that happened played out pretty much exactly as I thought it would. Lost had more of an emotional impact on me. The church scene and the final 5-6 minutes overall were just perfect.
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Yea I enjoyed Lost alot even though it was a bit messy. One thing I loved with the show which might not get as praised is the flashbacks and backstorys for all the main characters, they were always so well made imo and almost like entire small spinn offs in a way.
Someday I plan on re-watching it all again, to many current shows to follow atm.
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The flash sideways just wasn't that interesting to me, the ending to the story on the island was what I really enjoyed.
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The flash sideways just wasn't that interesting to me, the ending to the story on the island was what I really enjoyed.
I really liked the idea of them spiritually meeting up again in another life. Not all of the stories were amazing, but that comes down to which characters you prefered, and also affected flashbacks of the first seasons.
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The flash sideways just wasn't that interesting to me, the ending to the story on the island was what I really enjoyed.
I really liked the idea of them spiritually meeting up again in another life. Not all of the stories were amazing, but that comes down to which characters you prefered, and also affected flashbacks of the first seasons.
I don't dislike the idea of them being together in a spiritual world, it's more of the fact that half of the final season was in a world that had little to no bearing on the actual story. The flash backwards/forwards from the previous seasons were more interesting and more relevant to the story and what was happening in the current timeframe.
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Currently re-watching Lost and finished S3 again. Through the Looking Glass might just be my favorite episode. (that one, The Constant and The End would be my top3 probably)
Jack to me was always a solid, but not one of my favorite characters, but upon re-watching it, I enjoy him more, and Matthew Fox's performance in Through the Looking Glass is brilliant. The ending when you realize it takes place forward in time and not backwards is perfectly done, and the scene is just so effective. All the clever setups before worked so well. "WE HAVE TO GO BACK"
If the show ended at that point I would've been absolutely perfect. Instead seasons 4-6 were executed like a very unnecessary sequel to a really solid movie.
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The flash backwards/forwards from the previous seasons were more interesting and more relevant to the story and what was happening in the current timeframe.
Yea those were the ones I was talking about.
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I don't think it would have been a good show finale overall because as amazing as it is as a season 3 closer, if you had ended it right there, I think a lot of people would have been upset because even more questions would be unanswered, and you would basically rob the viewers of one thing they were waiting for all along - the rescue part.
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I guess it depends on how you first viewed the show and developed questions (especially ones for details that don't matter at all) but I watched the entire show over the span of two weeks and after season 3 ended I thought "This is perfect. Everything is as wrapped up as it should be." Then season 4 started and the wheels came off the cart immediately. Honestly, how many of these questions that viewers have don't have an answer of "Nobody gives a shit"? I can't remember specific examples that my friends were bringing up when the finale aired but it was almost all nitpicking crap that had no bearing on the story whatsoever.
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I'm not so sure how season 3 would be a good ending honestly. I don't remember enough to make a valid reason why, but that just doesn't seem right to me.
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It's definitely one of my favorite finales ever.
I like it too. I especially love when the dog (forgot his name) comes to make Jack company and Jack's smile after he sees the plane. He seems so happy but in a heartbreaking way.
Most say the show declined after Season 4 and i understand the complaints but i think it's still was a great show. I definitely would rewatch it again.
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Even as a huge fan, I can say the show declined as well. Most shows decline, I think Breaking Bad is one of the few that got better as it went on.
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Even as a huge fan, I can say the show declined as well.
I agree but it didn't ruined the show for me like it did for many.
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The problem with Lost is that it seemed like they had to make the story go longer than it needed to. It's like the Network said "Nope. Sorry. Not cancelling you yet", and the writers had to literally pull ideas out of their asses just to keep the episodes flowing.
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The problem with Lost is that it seemed like they had to make the story go longer than it needed to. It's like the Network said "Nope. Sorry. Not cancelling you yet", and the writers had to literally pull ideas out of their asses just to keep the episodes flowing.
Agreed. The writers kept leaving us with more and more questions without giving us much answers aside from "Because the Island" or "Because Jacob". I don't think anybody ever had any explanation in mind, they just wanted to make the show seem as weird as possible.
It's been a while since I last watched the entire series(I've watched it twice) but IIRC, you could really skip over most of S5 and not miss much.
I'm gonna watch the whole thing again some time this year.
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Some things were perfectly set up though, like in the first or second episode of S1, Locke holds the light and dark stones which upon rewatching the show is obviously a nice nod to what happens in S6 with Jacob/Man in Black. You also had the skeleton in the caves when they first got there which leads me to believe that they had the basic idea of Jacob/Man in Black, light vs dark mapped out in S1 already, but along the path things changed. Desmond, who is probably my favorite character in the show felt like he would just be a guest, but due to popularity he came back and eventually became Jesus kinda. Some ideas felt crazy at first, like the idea of moving the whole island by pulling a giant lever, but some of those crazy weird things also worked for me.
To me the show got more and more rewarding towards the end because you got to see more and more of the island and the gang wasn't just sitting around the beach. For example the temple that shows up in S6. At first I thought "why didn't anyone stumble upon it sooner?" but in reality the group really didn't explore the island that much in the earlier seasons. They found certain landmarks like the black rock which they would return to, but not a lot outside that. I definitely don't think they planned on introducing time travel when they started in S1. And to return to the praise for Through the Looking Glass, I think they kinda shot themselves in the foot when they wrote in the rescue at the end of S3 already and figured "oh crap, we can't take the characters off the island, because the show is at the island", so they wrote the plot line of how the characters returned. Things like that felt a bit "made it up as they went along", but other things felt planned. I'd even argue the smoke monster was planned all along.
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I'm just finishing a rewatch and have really enjoyed it this time around.
I'd forgotten how good those first couple seasons were (and plenty of gems in the other seasons as well, though I generally agree that the quality declined quite a bit in seasons 4-6). I almost think that the show runners got caught up in the show's reputation and expectations that things had to be mysterious to the point of convolution; when in fact it was the show's more simple, character driven qualities which really set it apart. As an example--thematically, the struggle between "man of science" and "man of faith" is a fairly simple and universal idea that almost anyone can relate to. Throw in some elements of mystery and fantasy and that bigger idea has the potential to be even more fascinating. But when the layers of plot and timeline become too difficult to sort out, it's much more difficult to appreciate the show's core.
Which is why I really appreciated the finale. For me, the show was always about these bigger ideas and worked really well as a sort of character study. The finale brings it back to that foundation in a really beautiful way, I think.
At the time that it aired, I was a little surprised to see so many people complaining about plot holes and lingering confusion. It's an understandable reaction, but I'd always thought of those mysteries as secondary to the emotional lives of the characters and I thought that was done well.
Also, Zantera--I'm totally with you on Desmond. I didn't know it the first time I watched the show, but that dude is by far my favorite character. Absolutely love The Constant and Flashes Before Your Eyes, especially, but all of the Desmond Episodes always got to me.
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Yea, Desmond was a great character. Loved The Constant.
I always felt most of the complaints about plot holes were dumbfounded. There were a few legit ones (like Walt), but many complaints were from people just not paying close enough attention.
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I will start my rewatch on S4 tonight, but I will say that most of the lackluster episodes I remember are from the early seasons. I'm sure S4-S6 had their weak ones too (I don't remember loving all of it), but I remember those latter seasons having some of the best episodes. The Constant, The Shape of Things to Come, Cabin Fever, Jughead, The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham, The Variable, The Incident, Ab Aeterno & The End are all some of the best episodes of the show. To me a show with that many good episodes in the last few seasons can't be considered a decline IMO.
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(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-01/enhanced/webdr02/26/11/enhanced-buzz-16024-1390754577-4.jpg)
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Michael was probably my least favorite character. Or at least, right up there with Anna Lucia, Shannon and Boone.
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I believe at the time of season 3, can't remember, the writers wanted to end the show with season 4. The network made them go on longer for 6 seasons and the compromise was they would do fewer episodes per season. Additionally the writers had been touting at the time everything would be scientifically accurate and explained but once they introduced the time travel aspect, I guess that went out the door. I remember that pissed off several of my friends who were crazy into the show, would listen to podcasts, scour the hundreds of fan sites and read up on all associated mythology connected to each episode.
I really need to rewatch the show, glad it's on netflix but need to get hold of the boxset sometime.
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I remember those latter seasons having some of the best episodes. The Constant, The Shape of Things to Come, Cabin Fever, Jughead, The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham, The Variable, The Incident, Ab Aeterno & The End are all some of the best episodes of the show.
There's also the S4 three part finale, There's no Place like Home. Great stuff.
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Additionally the writers had been touting at the time everything would be scientifically accurate
That's interesting; I didn't know that. I always thought that there was 'magic' from the beginning (particularly with the smoke monster).
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Michael was probably my least favorite character. Or at least, right up there with Anna Lucia, Shannon and Boone.
Michael was definitely my least favorite. Pretty much every move he did was for his own sake and he didn't care about anyone else than himself or Walt. I'm a bit conflicted with Ana Lucia because I think there was partially an interesting character when Michelle Rodriguez wasn't playing the badass she usually plays. When she had more quieter moments I thought there was potential to do something with her. Boone and Shannon were pretty pointless.
Again to strengthen my earlier point.. these are all S1/S2 characters. I feel like most of the characters that entered later on were more interesting and I didn't hate any of them as much. (Keamy withstanding since he was a douchebag)
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I loved the series, but I remember being really disappointed with the ending, as it seemed to be too similar to the "purgatory / dead all along" fan theory that was doing the rounds from the first couple of seasons. I realise now that the "final farewell" part in the church was another flash forward to the afterlife, but for me, it wasn't made clear enough how they all ended up in this life. Just felt to me like there wasn't enough resolution.
I'd like to re-watch it though. Maybe it would be clearer on a second viewing.
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Michael was probably my least favorite character. Or at least, right up there with Anna Lucia, Shannon and Boone.
Yeah... Michael and Anna Lucia were my two least favorite characters.
The ending was interesting. I was slightly disappointed, though. I felt like there were so many surreal things happening that to have the ending just them going to heaven seemed a bit anti-climactic. I get why they ended it that way but I expected something more. I would have rather have them actually being in hell or purgatory or even Hugo's dream. Anybody else a bit letdown by the ending?
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I'm pretty sure the vast majority of Lost fans were disappointed.
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I thought the ending was really good. I did think the show had kinda gone downhill for the last few seasons, but I think the finale pulled things together really well, and it ended about as well as it could have.
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Not this fan. During season 4 I had a hunch what direction they were taking the show into and even told my wife that this looks to be headed into a more philosophical/religious direction so I was sorta prepared for the ending in that way.
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I thought the ending was really good. I did think the show had kinda gone downhill for the last few seasons, but I think the finale pulled things together really well, and it ended about as well as it could have.
That's how I feel. Not really sure what a better ending could have been all things considered.
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The finale being so divisive was mainly a result of the last few seasons splitting the fanbase so much. The show took a lot of risks that was really rewarding for those of us who liked it, and found the finale to be the perfect closure, whereas people who maybe wasn't so into the storylines of S6 found it to be more "meh".
They could have ended the show with a giant cliffhanger twist with something completely crazy happening (there had been moments like that in earlier season finales), but I'm happy they went the closure-route where we got the emotional impact of the ending.
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One of my favorite shows of all time. Aside from the mysteries of the island, I felt it was successful due to the strong characters created, both by the writers and the actors. I agree it lost steam in seasons 4/5, but I had no issues with how the series ended.
Also, Ab Aeterno may well be my favorite episode of any television show. Amazingly written and performed.
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Watched The Constant again last night, such a good episode. I would say S4 perhaps drags a bit in its first half (with the exception of The Constant), but the second half is really strong, and the season is only 13 episodes, so it isn't that bad.
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My biggest issue with season 4 was that I thought it felt a little rushed. Particularly with the introduction of the freighter characters--Miles, Faraday and the redhead in particular. I grew to like those characters more in the following season, but at the time their introduction felt rushed and as a result they seemed to me very two-dimensional.
And then there's the return of Michael, which I thought was unnecessary. And the dickhead mercenary without any redeeming qualities...
The season had some great moments, but overall it's probably my least favorite of the six.
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My biggest issue with season 4 was that I thought it felt a little rushed. Particularly with the introduction of the freighter characters--Miles, Faraday and the redhead in particular. I grew to like those characters more in the following season, but at the time their introduction felt rushed and as a result they seemed to me very two-dimensional.
And then there's the return of Michael, which I thought was unnecessary. And the dickhead mercenary without any redeeming qualities...
The season had some great moments, but overall it's probably my least favorite of the six.
As much as I hate Keamy (hey that's the purpose), it was refreshing with a character who was just straight out bad. Most of the antagonists, whether it was Tom or Ben, they had layers to them and they weren't necessarily bad, they just did things that worked against our main characters. In that sense it was refreshing with a character who was just full out bad.
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A couple of days ago I started to rewatch this one, but this time, with my wife and 9 years old son. THEY LOVE THE SHOW! My son is intrigued about where the Polar beard came from, what are the noises heard on the island and he wants me to tell him what's going on, haha.
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A couple of days ago I started to rewatch this one, but this time, with my wife and 9 years old son. THEY LOVE THE SHOW! My son is intrigued about where the Polar beard came from, what are the noises heard on the island and he wants me to tell him what's going on, haha.
That's awesome! I still love the show, top 5 all time show for me.
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Mira Furlan RIP :'(
https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1352465912255770624
she's best known for her performance as Delenn on Babylon 5, but she also played a notable role in Lost, Danielle Rousseau, the woman whose daughter Alex, The Others took.
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oh man that sucks. She was a great character, didn't know she had health problems. RIP.
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A couple of days ago I started to rewatch this one, but this time, with my wife and 9 years old son. THEY LOVE THE SHOW! My son is intrigued about where the Polar beard came from, what are the noises heard on the island and he wants me to tell him what's going on, haha.
Last night we started ep 1-2 of season 6. It's been a great ride! My wife and son are still hooked.
This morning my wife woke me up with the news of 'Danielle' passing. RIP Mira.
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I've been pondering a re-watch of Lost. Still my favorite show of all time.
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Mira Furlan died from contracting the West Nile Virus which seems weird.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2021/01/22/mira-furlan-dead-lost-babylon-5-actress-dies-65/6668837002/?fbclid=IwAR0hFnP6n84pT9DQNodum6heaI7zt7E5lalNgqLB6sTbqVW1hXmId8kKhg0
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8 Episodes into Season 2 of my third watch. Still amazed by the greatness of this show. Easy to take for granted now with how many great shows there are but still my fav.
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8 Episodes into Season 2 of my third watch. Still amazed by the greatness of this show. Easy to take for granted now with how many great shows there are but still my fav.
Cool, I did a rewatch some months ago and it still holds up in my mind. We're pretty spoiled these days in terms of quality tv-shows.
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For years, I've been wanting to go back and watch Lost. I watched it for the first time in high school and then college, which was a long time ago now! I had forgotten a lot about the show. Finally, I got a Hulu subscription and my wife and I started barrelling through it.
Last night, we finished it. I know the finale is polarizing but I was genuinely moved by it. I was really touched by the character focus of it and how it leaned more into the broader themes of the show. Overall, I thought that Season One was one of the best seasons of television I've ever seen, the next couple of seasons were strong, and then I thought the last few seasons were still enjoyable but moved at such a fast pace there was little time to breathe.
I'm just so glad I watched this show again. It was a truly special experience, and I'm sure I'll watch again one day.
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The finale is amazing and I feel it's only polarizing because a lot of people stopped watching before that point but tuned in to the finale and then they were confused about it. It's still my favorite show ever and I think the finale is a top3 episode of the show. The show really hits on an emotional level that I feel a lot of other great shows just don't.
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Agreed about the finale. The show in general was really good. There were some ‘misses’ here and there but all in all it was a great series.
You guys have me contemplating a rewatch now. I’ve only watched it the one time in its original run.
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Agreed about the finale. The show in general was really good. There were some ‘misses’ here and there but all in all it was a great series.
You guys have me contemplating a rewatch now. I’ve only watched it the one time in its original run.
I think it's a show that strongly benefits from being able to watch it when you want. I was only aware of it during its original run and didn't watch it until it had finished, and part of me can relate to the frustration of waiting months for answers after cliffhanger endings to seasons, or you have a 'filler' episode one week and you're stuck waiting for your favorite storyline to take another step. I can see why, in that context the show might have frustrated some people. While binge watching comes with its own set of problems, I think Lost is one of those shows that is greatly enhanced when you have the option to see the next episode right away if you want to.
That original format was standard at the time but it's different for a mystery show like Lost I think where the story was a continuous thing playing out with each episode. I feel like some problems people had with the show might have been a lot smaller had they not been waiting between episodes creating certain expectations and so on.
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If I remember correctly the middle of the series was really affected by the writers strike and that’s when the show kind of waned and it took a while to get it back rolling to where it originally was.
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If I remember correctly the middle of the series was really affected by the writers strike and that’s when the show kind of waned and it took a while to get it back rolling to where it originally was.
I believe you’re correct. They were throwing random crap at the wall there for a bit.
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If I remember correctly the middle of the series was really affected by the writers strike and that’s when the show kind of waned and it took a while to get it back rolling to where it originally was.
Yeah, I thought the season during the strike that ended up being cut in half wasn't so bad, but the writing started to suffer after the strike.
I did a rewatch like 4 years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. I always thought the ending was better than people gave it credit for. There were a couple unanswered questions, but they actually managed to tie most of it up by the end and there were a couple deleted scenes from the finale that further answered questions.
While GOT was airing, I was pretty sure GOT had surpassed Lost as my favorite show, but GOT last season was so bad that I actually think Lost still reigns as my favorite.
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The finale is amazing and I feel it's only polarizing because a lot of people stopped watching before that point but tuned in to the finale and then they were confused about it. It's still my favorite show ever and I think the finale is a top3 episode of the show. The show really hits on an emotional level that I feel a lot of other great shows just don't.
I think one of the hardest things to pull off from a storytelling perspective is tying up every loose plot thread while also being satisfying on a thematic/emotional level. Lost may not have answered every question or tied up every loose end, but I don't personally care about that stuff as much. It seems like the writers knew they had to wrap things up and decided to focus way more on the characters and such in the finale as opposed to answering every question about the Dharma Initiative or whatever.
I understand why some people were disappointed by that, but honestly I think they made the right call in the end. In a perfect world, they would have had time to get to everything, but that almost never happens. I think they pretty much nailed it given the situation.
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There was a line said in the show that I'm 100% sure the writers put in explicitly as their own line to the fans "every answer leads to another question" (or something similar to that) which is very true. If they explained something, it would lead to more questions about the explanation. At some point, you just have to leave it. I think the only question they really never answered that deserved something was Walt since they focused so much on him so much. If I recall, the deleted scene shed some light more so on the explanation was that they were just wrong about him. (My memory could be off here).
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The finale is amazing and I feel it's only polarizing because a lot of people stopped watching before that point but tuned in to the finale and then they were confused about it. It's still my favorite show ever and I think the finale is a top3 episode of the show. The show really hits on an emotional level that I feel a lot of other great shows just don't.
I think one of the hardest things to pull off from a storytelling perspective is tying up every loose plot thread while also being satisfying on a thematic/emotional level. Lost may not have answered every question or tied up every loose end, but I don't personally care about that stuff as much. It seems like the writers knew they had to wrap things up and decided to focus way more on the characters and such in the finale as opposed to answering every question about the Dharma Initiative or whatever.
I understand why some people were disappointed by that, but honestly I think they made the right call in the end. In a perfect world, they would have had time to get to everything, but that almost never happens. I think they pretty much nailed it given the situation.
I think it's fine for some things to not get an explanation as well. Sure, you wanna answer the big questions that people had and I feel like they did. Certain other smaller questions might have fallen to the way side a bit but I feel like there's room for interpretation and imagination to fill that in. But overall I would say as a fan, most questions I've come across that people said "were never answered" actually were answered.
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The finale is amazing and I feel it's only polarizing because a lot of people stopped watching before that point but tuned in to the finale and then they were confused about it. It's still my favorite show ever and I think the finale is a top3 episode of the show. The show really hits on an emotional level that I feel a lot of other great shows just don't.
I think one of the hardest things to pull off from a storytelling perspective is tying up every loose plot thread while also being satisfying on a thematic/emotional level. Lost may not have answered every question or tied up every loose end, but I don't personally care about that stuff as much. It seems like the writers knew they had to wrap things up and decided to focus way more on the characters and such in the finale as opposed to answering every question about the Dharma Initiative or whatever.
I understand why some people were disappointed by that, but honestly I think they made the right call in the end. In a perfect world, they would have had time to get to everything, but that almost never happens. I think they pretty much nailed it given the situation.
I think it's fine for some things to not get an explanation as well. Sure, you wanna answer the big questions that people had and I feel like they did. Certain other smaller questions might have fallen to the way side a bit but I feel like there's room for interpretation and imagination to fill that in. But overall I would say as a fan, most questions I've come across that people said "were never answered" actually were answered.
That's really interesting. I never followed the fan discourse much but it doesn't surprise me that at least some of what people complain about isn't actually worth complaining about. :lol
I also think that not explaining everything can actually be a positive when done correctly. Hell, there are entire franchises (e.g., Dark Souls) that are great because they just sprinkle in a bit of lore and leave everything else up to your imagination.
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Been on a bit of a JJ Abrams kick lately. Just finished watching Fringe for the second time. Love that show.
Now I'm going to start my second (or is it third?) watch of Lost. Will probably go back and rewatch Alias too.
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Lost is still my favorite show of all time. It's been a few years since my last viewing but I'm waiting for my kids to get a bit older so they can watch it.