DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
General => Musicians => Topic started by: NickySpanjaards on July 18, 2011, 06:58:29 PM
-
Hi all,
I wanted to let you know I'm back ;)
In the past year I studied a lot about vocal techniques and trained hard and all those things as some of you recommended.
I think I sing better now (I even watched the old video's of last year...hell that's bad....how could I even have called it good??)
I gladly hear your opinion. :smiley:
This is 6:00 vocal cover.
(p.s. in the end I made some little faults, because I had a little cold here)
https://www.vimeo.com/26554929
-
Nicky!!!!!!!! Haven't listened yet since I'm in class, but I'm sure it's going to be fantastic! :metal
-
How does it feel to be Nicky?
-
Damn. Has it really been a year?
It was sounding a bit better at first, but you're way off on the chorus and especially the "coming outside" part I'm sorry to say. I really think you need to find a new style. This operatic stuff is not for you.
Edit: The answer is no, it has not been a year. It's been 8-10 months, at best.
-
Don't let these fools discourage you Nicky. Your cover sounded good, you've come a long way and it shows. Keep it up, and post some more! :tup :tup
-
Like, there are parts that sound good, but there are parts that sound way off. How about, instead of trying to cover the song start to finish, you break it up into chunks so you can perfect each part.
-
Request: On The Backs Of Angels
-
You've...improved.
:D
-
ignore the haters, cuz.
that was awesome!
-
You've improved. You still have a lot of way to go.
-
ignore the haters, cuz.
that was awesome!
I haven't heard it yet so I can't say anything, but the whole "don't listen to any criticism" is actually a very very very bad piece of advice. No one gets better if all they get is praise.
-
I've been waiting for this day! :)
You've gotten better I think. You are still way off though :/ To me it sounds like you are having a hard time actually hearing the actual melody of the song more than you are having trouble producing the notes.
EDIT: Just got to the end. You basically have no upper range. You need to take your time to expand your range using vocal exercises and finding out how to use your head voice. You are trying to strain and squeeze high notes out of your throat instead of trying to support them with proper breath and technique.
-
ignore the haters, cuz.
that was awesome!
I haven't heard it yet so I can't say anything, but the whole "don't listen to any criticism" is actually a very very very bad piece of advice. No one gets better if all they get is praise.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news for Nicky, but anyone telling him it sounds great just don't want the lolz to end.
-
Ok, listening to it now.
It's not bad so far, that is until the chorus kicks in.....then you're just terribly off, and your range can't handle what's supposed to be sung.
The "come outside" part was pretty brutal.
Yea, the whole "so many ways..." is pretty bad. It's your range, you don't have the upper register that DT requires. I remember hearing your Iced Earth covers, and you weren't bad on the lower range stuff. You may want to consider sticking to that, I know you love DT but that doesn't change your natural abilities.
Overall, pretty similar quality as last year....maybe a bit improved on the lower register stuff, but the upper range is still not there. I'd say focus on lower-mid range singing instead.
-
keep it goin man! love the enthusiasm
-
Awesome dude, delivered again!
-
Awesome dude, delivered again!
I know you're trying to be nice and all, but did you really listen to all of it and say to yourself "Wow that was an amazing perfomance"?
Because not criticizing him isn't helping.
-
Awesome dude, delivered again!
I know you're trying to be nice and all, but did you really listen to all of it and say to yourself "Wow that was an amazing perfomance"?
Because not criticizing him isn't helping.
Why? hes having a fun time and trying to sing along. This isn't music class. Is he trying to become a professional?
-
Well...
-
I guess you weren't here last year? We went through all of this with him.
I think this is more than "aww look at that guy have some fun singing DT". He considers himself a singer and came here asking advise, saying "As long as you're having fun....then it doesn't matter how good you are" is very bad advise.
-
Oh i see. Gotcha must have some lack of knowledge on the incidents. Obviously it's not really good if its more then just fun. Not really qualified to give signing advice but...
1. Cant really get to the high notes at all Im not a singer but ure voice sounds forced and stressed.
2.Have u ever taken a lesson?
-
Thank you all for your opinions so far.
I know I'm way off in the chorus and the last part (especially the second time of the chorus)
But the upper register was hard to reach when I had the cold.
I have still a way to go...and my lower/mid registers are indeed my best registers.
But I want it to expand to the upper registers.
I think it's going very well (sadly I had the cold here) but soon I will record a new song so you can hear it in normal condition.
Your help last year really helped...I now hear most of the time when I'm off pitch. :tup
Request: On The Backs Of Angels
Yeah well, maybe that's the next song I cover :smiley:
-
Well as others have said before me, your upper register suffers alot, but in the lower stuff you did a decent job. I think you should really continue practising and learning how to use your voice, you've already improved since the last covers, and 6:00 is not an easy song.
-
Awesome dude, delivered again!
I know you're trying to be nice and all, but did you really listen to all of it and say to yourself "Wow that was an amazing perfomance"?
Because not criticizing him isn't helping.
When I watched it I thought "Wow, that was amazingly funny'. Hence 'delivers'. Only after I read the old thread I found out this was serious. Sorry Nicky.
-
Welcome back, Nicky. Definitely better. I totally love the energy you put into each performance. It's great to watch. My fav part of this one was around 3:50... "Coming outside!!!!!"
-
You're good (could be better) on the lower register, but you need some serious training on the higher register. :)
-
I enjoyed some of it. You could use some practice when it comes to higher notes, though.
-
The Bad Burrito is back!
On my phone right now, I will check it out later.
rumborak
-
Very little in that video was on-pitch really. It's just more noticeable on the higher-pitched long notes, but the lower, half-spoken parts have a distinct melody too, and he barely ever hits those either. The issue isn't vocal range, the issue is hearing when one is off.
rumborak
-
Very little in that video was on-pitch really. It's just more noticeable on the higher-pitched long notes, but the lower, half-spoken parts have a distinct melody too, and he barely ever hits those either. The issue isn't vocal range, the issue is hearing when one is off.
rumborak
Well range isn't the only issue, but it's an issue.
-
Alright, here goes...
*Diction is still way over the top...
*You try to throw in some memorable JLB body expressions but it doesn't blend well with the problematic diction
*The notes are all over the place, especially on the high parts
*It sounds like you're struggling, even on the lower parts. I assume it's because you're trying to emulate JLB's raspy voice, but it's just...wrong.
*Can anyone confirm he's on the right octave? I can't figure it out, too many notes are off and the struggling tone is confusing.
*It kinda seems like it's painful for you to sing, like you're angry at this song, or like you just ate a bad burrito. Virtually, it's just rather amusing to mute this video and watch. No offense on this one though.
*Your website still looks like a weird take on jlb.com.
*Your biography still says something about a vocal rupture, a band that's been searching for a vocalist for over a year, and other weird takes on events from JLB's past.
*Your lyrics are heavily "influenced" by Home, Trial of Tears, Shores of Avalon, A Change of Seasons, The Best of Times etc.
By the way, huh?
For happyness, faith, trust and luck,
We gave each other an emberassing hug
So yeah, all in all, still pretty bad. And I'm quite surprised that your Twitter acc is not called "PirateCNS".
By the way, that thread (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=25023.0) made me think of you.
-
*You try to throw in some memorable JLB body expressions
Oh god, this. You got so much shit for this last time, Nicky, and it's so easy not to do it anymore, that I really have to wonder whether you've actually been training your vocals or just singing in the shower. If you haven't made improvements even in the most easily made ones, I've gotta wonder if you actually took any of the advice you were given last time.
-
ignore the haters, cuz.
that was awesome!
I haven't heard it yet so I can't say anything, but the whole "don't listen to any criticism" is actually a very very very bad piece of advice. No one gets better if all they get is praise.
It's 2011. Constructive criticism is dead. It's all about trolling, belittling, and making people feel lower than shit.
And of course, then there's praise. No in between though.
EVERYONE'S A WINNER!!!!!!!!!
OR A COMPLETE FUCKING LOSER WHO SHOULD DIE IN A FIRRRRRRRRRRE!!!
Yeah I know, I'm a Negative Nancy....
-
Your videos always give me a good laugh!
-
I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but, like... why would you record a song while you had a cold? ???
-
That was actually listenable.
I agree with others though on your range. It sucks to say, but it doesn't seem like you have the range to sing Dream Theater. Is it the end of the world? No, but you have to play to your strengths. I'll give you an example you might understand, and I even converted to metric for you. A tall kid wants to become a basketball player and play center like his favorite player. When he's done growing, he's 15-20 centimeters too short to play the center position. That doesn't mean he can't become a basketball player, but he won't have the height to play the position he wants. If he accepts his height limitation, he can play another position. You aren't going to get make enough money to keep a roof over your head singing DT covers, so you might as well focus on original material that is within your natural skill set. That's as nice as I'm going to be with this.
-
You don't have the range now, Nicky, but if you put the time into it, you could learn it.
-
You don't have the range now, Nicky, but if you put the time into it, you could learn it.
He put close to a year into it.
-
You simply aren't hitting the notes, low or high.
-
You don't have the range now, Nicky, but if you put the time into it, you could learn it.
He put close to a year into it.
Eh, I like to think that anyone can do it if they truly try. =)
-
You simply aren't hitting the notes, low or high.
This, plain and simple. Whatever some guys here are philosophizing about ranges of voices, it doesn't matter. He can't sing on pitch inside his range, and that is a death sentence for any singer.
I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but, like... why would you record a song while you had a cold? ???
He used the same excuse last year. If I had a dime for every time I've had a singer tell me "I have a cold, sinusitis, nodules etc etc", I'd be rich.
rumborak
-
Wasn't great to be honest Nicky. If your really serious about wanting to singing get some lessons...A LOT!! It was out of tune, far beyond your range mate, most people can only dream about having the range and tone JLB did during his early years. Go right back to basics with your singing, I mean as far back as you can, learning scales and stick to them! Also ear training could help you out a lot!!! Good luck!
EDIT: Just listened to the Pull Me Under cover you did and that was far far far beyond your range. You could damage your voice singing like that.
-
I think you are an OK singer but you have to work within your range. If it's not in the range you could hurt your voice, and honestly with some work you could be a pretty good singer, but you may never have a huge range like James. Don't feel bad, because a lot of people (girls included) don't, and you don't have to sing high to sing good.
:heart keep up your dream!
EDIT: OH and Nicky, I notice a lot of times you say, "Singing this when I had ____" and such. If you have a cold, or are in the middle of a vocal chord rupture, don't sing!
Yes I understand James did sing in the middle of a bad bad rupture but he was lucky to get out without losing his voice complete.y
-
I have to ask a question into the round here: The ones saying he's pretty good or OK, do you guys don't hear the issues, or do you you hear them and just don't see them as grave?
rumborak
-
Stop being a mean face, Rumborak. I didn't watch the whole thing, and I'm far from being a good singer, but Nicky was decent enough to be the kareoke champion at a bar. Keep trying mate. With great power comes great responsability or something.
-
Stop being a mean face, Rumborak. I didn't watch the whole thing, and I'm far from being a good singer, but Nicky was decent enough to be the kareoke champion at a bar.
I'm not being a mean face, I'm just trying to be honest, because I have the impression that quite a few people here sugarcoat their true assessment of the video.
But again, I find your statement rather astonishing. You say he'd be the karaoke champion of the night. Interestingly I had considered making a karaoke statement myself, but rather that the quality was average karaoke bar night material.
So, what really amazes me here is that we have such vastly different views of the vocals.
rumborak
-
I have to ask a question into the round here: The ones saying he's pretty good or OK, do you guys don't hear the issues, or do you you hear them and just don't see them as grave?
rumborak
With the higher notes, I really hear the issues. With the lower notes, I hear that he's not hitting the same notes as the original lots of times, but the notes that he's hitting still sound "on key" if that makes sense. I liked his cover of the Hunter awhile back, and didn't think it was awful at all. But this stuff certainly is.
-
Iced Earth's The Hunter? And I only said kareoke champion because I figure most people who do kareoke are awful, at least the ones I've seen. Then again, you're just supposed to have fun with that like Rock Band. Like I said, I didn't watch much of the video, so what I saw wasn't great, but it wasn't horrible either. I do understand he's trying to go pro, so that's why there's a bunch of Simon Cowells in here, and I agree, there shouldn't be any sugarcoating. But chin up, Nicky. At least you don't sound like Weird Al.
-
I think it would be interesting to hear a recorded track from him without the proper vocals in the back. E.g. Wither: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4pUwhwkTIE or WFS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzf7obdBN7E
rumborak
-
I listened to the OP's version and was drawn to make my own version. I did not have time to rehearse it so I just did one take. I hope it's not that bad, would like to hear some comments. I sort of used a more raucous tone than my usual one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbodhPhyHS0
-
I listened to the OP's version and was drawn to make my own version. I did not have time to rehearse it so I just did one take. I hope it's not that bad, would like to hear some comments. I sort of used a more raucous tone than my usual one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbodhPhyHS0
Parts of it weren't and you sounded a bit strained on the higher notes, but it was passable. It was much better the Nicky's-- and he had the huge advantage of singing along with the James' actual vocal track.
-
I enjoyed it, thanks.
-
I listened to the OP's version and was drawn to make my own version. I did not have time to rehearse it so I just did one take. I hope it's not that bad, would like to hear some comments. I sort of used a more raucous tone than my usual one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbodhPhyHS0
A couple of comments:
Yeah, as mentioned, good call on singing to the MIDI track. Not only can one judge your singing much better, it also show whether you get the timings (you had a few hiccups here and there, but overall quite good)
The pitches were good, I liked that, including in the lower ranges.
Some improvements: You're a bit over-enunciating and over-emphasizing, and that makes the pitches suffer. You also have a tendency to cut the notes off prematurely (this is a common problem with singers), try to keep them longer.
Overall I liked it. Not stellar, but a good effort for sitting at the computer with headphones on. And thank you thank you for not having any antics (other than the clearly visible enjoyment of the music :lol )
rumborak
-
Thank you guys for the feedback and the nice comments, not sure if completely deserved :) I am not trying to go pro or whatever, I played guitar in a DT cover band in my teens and early 20s, but I had to quit (and basically stop playing guitar) essentially because of mathematics (my job). I have always sung backing vocals in every band I was (most notably, I did the Lukather parts in a toto cover band), but I never saw myself as a lead singer (nor I see myself as one now).
This 6:00 cover was quite improvised (even though I have known the song for 15 years or so and it has always been a great singalong tune for me...); I might try some other tune with a more detailed study of the vocal part...
-
It wasn't very good at all. It doesn't seem like you have a lot of singing talent, unfortunately. I don't think I'm being rude for saying the truth. You're off key in your normal range, and nowhere near the actual notes in the high register (if we can call it that). If you don't have the pipes, you just don't, I've spent almost 4 years now and I've kept trying to sing DT, and I practiced and tried to push my voice and everything, and I still can't do it. On the other hand, I've mastered a good vibrato and I'm in tune in my natural range, and that's what you should focus on I think.
-
I think you should look into lessons. You CAN be a good singer--you have potential--but there's a lot of work to be done there.
Also, you may want to look into writing your OWN songs that are within your OWN range. Singing DT covers won't improve your voice at all because it's not in your range at all.
-
YES! hes back! i just love reading the threads :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
-
Well the biggest issues here are the complete lack of breath support and control, and the fact that you absolutely cannot sing in this range. I'm new to the forum and haven't seen or heard you before, but I do know what I'm talking about here for the most part.
You will hurt your voice by continuing to sing like this and forcing this range than you simply don't have. Plus you should study up on breath support, or even better, take some lessons if you do want to get better.
Most of all, just sing songs that play to your strengths which was the lower range. Although, admittedly you were missing a lot of the lower notes as well. This could be from the cold, but whatever. The main point is, your high range is basically non-existent so work on you lower range.
Also, please lose the pseudo-JLB movements. It's kind of weird... :P
Hope this helps!
-
Stop being a mean face, Rumborak. I didn't watch the whole thing, and I'm far from being a good singer, but Nicky was decent enough to be the kareoke champion at a bar.
I'm not being a mean face, I'm just trying to be honest, because I have the impression that quite a few people here sugarcoat their true assessment of the video.
But again, I find your statement rather astonishing. You say he'd be the karaoke champion of the night. Interestingly I had considered making a karaoke statement myself, but rather that the quality was average karaoke bar night material.
So, what really amazes me here is that we have such vastly different views of the vocals.
rumborak
My initial statement in this thread is pretty friendly and sugar coated....Brutal honesty is that he is tone def and doesnt know it. He will never be any sort of singer inside or outside of his range. Lessons won't help him as he is tone def. Most of my friends who don't sing could do a better job on their first effort.
In a bar it would be passable but not good and nobody would think you put any work into singing...sorry Nicky. I hate bein the bad guy (unlike Rumborak lol) but unless ure just havin fun this is a waste of time.
-
I agree with most of the comments about the OP's version. I want to say this about him. I have never had a particularly nice tone or studied vocal technique extensively, but I improved my singing a lot thanks to ear training (which I did extensively while studying and playing the guitar). While tone, range and technique are harder to master (and you have to be born with it to some extent), good accuracy of pitches is obtainable by most people who train a bit.
So my advice to him is to do a crapload of ear training. Once you are comfortable with singing notes and intervals, and you plan to learn a song, try singing each phrase pf the song separately (e.g. I-may-ne-ver-get-oh-veer) super slowly and making sure you NAIL the notes and the intervals. This way you will find yourself in tune most of the time when you sing the real song. Moreover try staying inside your range more. Good luck!
-
Nicky, it's really nice to see you're accepting the criticism now. That's the way to improvement. :tup
-
I think it would be interesting to hear a recorded track from him without the proper vocals in the back. E.g. Wither: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4pUwhwkTIE or WFS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzf7obdBN7E
rumborak
Thanks for those links, I'm going to sing those soon, so you can get the best view on how I sing.
I've also planned to re-record The Hunter.
I'll keep you updated.
-
Make sure you are pushing from your diaphragm and taking a "great" breath every time you breathe it will do wonders for your singing.
-
Thank you guys for the feedback and the nice comments, not sure if completely deserved :) I am not trying to go pro or whatever, I played guitar in a DT cover band in my teens and early 20s, but I had to quit (and basically stop playing guitar) essentially because of mathematics (my job). I have always sung backing vocals in every band I was (most notably, I did the Lukather parts in a toto cover band), but I never saw myself as a lead singer (nor I see myself as one now).
This 6:00 cover was quite improvised (even though I have known the song for 15 years or so and it has always been a great singalong tune for me...); I might try some other tune with a more detailed study of the vocal part...
Just listened, I thought it was good technically. You can tell unlike the OP you can hit those notes in a clear and non-painful voice. The only issues imo were some rhythm stuff as you said.
-
I will not lie to you just to be nice. Its not good. Your like an untuned guitar. Your totally off key from start to finish. Anyone who says different is lying to you to make you feel good.
Sorry.
See you next year.
Don't give up. You'll get there if you keep trying. Lessons, lessons, lessons.
-
I don't understand how people can honestly think this video is good. ???
-
I will not lie to you just to be nice. Its not good. Your like an untuned guitar. Your totally off key from start to finish. Anyone who says different is lying to you to make you feel good.
Sorry.
See you next year.
Don't give up. You'll get there if you keep trying. Lessons, lessons, lessons.
I'm not sure I agree with the last part. Assuming he has been taking lessons for the past year.....he has shown no improvement at all. Some people just aren't meant to be singers.
-
Nicky, could you record slowly going up and down of a scale? Enough octaves to cover the range of 6:00... Say...as many notes as you can hit in C major from middle-C for 2 octaves? That, we will be able to take a tuner and show objectively when you are off pitch, which we cant do with a song.
-
I think it would be interesting to hear a recorded track from him without the proper vocals in the back. E.g. Wither: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4pUwhwkTIE or WFS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzf7obdBN7E
rumborak
Thanks for those links, I'm going to sing those soon, so you can get the best view on how I sing.
I've also planned to re-record The Hunter.
I'll keep you updated.
I would suggest WFS, of the two. I think it will show whether you understand what's going on rhythmically. Wither is a bit too easy in that regard.
rumborak
-
I will not lie to you just to be nice. Its not good. Your like an untuned guitar. Your totally off key from start to finish. Anyone who says different is lying to you to make you feel good.
Sorry.
See you next year.
Don't give up. You'll get there if you keep trying. Lessons, lessons, lessons.
I'm not sure I agree with the last part. Assuming he has been taking lessons for the past year.....he has shown no improvement at all. Some people just aren't meant to be singers.
The thing is, he isn't taking lessons. That's a crock. If he did take them he might actually slowly improve. When I started singing I wasn't very good. I thought I was at the time but I was wrong. With time and LESSONS, I learned how to sing in proper fashion and became a pretty good vocalist.
I just don't understand why Nicky posts these videos in this section of the board? His off key singing is not a Dream Theater topic.
Lastly. I'm not sure he will ever be a great singer but with proper guidance I do think he will improve. He will never know unless he stops lying and does it the right way.
I wonder what all the fans on his messageboard think of his latest video? ::)
-
The thing is, he isn't taking lessons. That's a crock.
This, yeah. If there's one thing I noticed about his posts it's that he's trying to "set up our mindset" towards liking his recordings. So, he tells us he takes lessons. He tells us he has a cold, that the microphone is making him sound bad, and this thread started with "OMG, I can't believe how bad I was last year, I totally hear it now", even though he made zero improvement. The idea that he now hears the mistakes he made last year but now no longer does them, is (as you say) crock. He's saying it so that, maybe, this new video will finally convince us of his singing. Because (and he displayed that notion in previous threads) I think he believes we're just too clueless to tell what's good and what's not. After all, he is a lead singer of a band! (he used that argument previously, as an indicator of quality)
I know I'm coming across as one mean person right now, but I personally believe that shaking a person out of their delusion is more beneficial than the "awww my little princess, you are a winner in my eyes!!" bullshit that's all too common these days.
rumborak
-
Like, there are parts that sound good, but there are parts that sound way off. How about, instead of trying to cover the song start to finish, you break it up into chunks so you can perfect each part.
this
-
Nicky, it's really nice to see you're accepting the criticism now. That's the way to improvement. :tup
No, actually learning how to sing is the way to improve. Accepting criticism won't do shit to improve his vocals. Sayin.
-
And of course, this formula:
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/rumborak/10000-1.gif)
-
What do t and tal (I think that's how you say it) represent? :lol
-
Rumborak knows what he's talking about.
-
What do t and tal (I think that's how you say it) represent? :lol
They both are time. t is the amount of time you spend on it, tal is time as a variable - I think.
-
Nicky, it's really nice to see you're accepting the criticism now. That's the way to improvement. :tup
No, actually learning how to sing is the way to improve. Accepting criticism won't do shit to improve his vocals. Sayin.
Well if he accepts criticism maybe he'll try to improve himself? Iunno, doesn't seem like it's working, but hopefully it does. :P
-
What do t and tal (I think that's how you say it) represent? :lol
It's "tau" (pronounced "tao").
Well, the formula describes your skill at time point "t", and you calculate it by adding all the Talent*Effort together from time 0 (presumably your birth) to the current time "t". For technical reasons of calculating this integral, you have to choose a different variable inside the integral, and for that one often uses the Greek equivalent of the Roman letter. So, for "t" I used Tau.
rumborak