DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Ħ on July 07, 2011, 05:43:14 PM
-
So, I have to say for the most part that I don't change my mind that often in terms of what I like and what I dislike. But these two albums have been kind of an anomoly for me.
I used to HATE Systematic Chaos with a passion....I thought it was devoid of all creativity, that it was just an instrumental snoozefest, and I rarely ever listen to it. But after checking it out again...it's really not that bad. Sure, it is the second longest album or something, the flow is a bit poor, but I can't bring myself to dislike any of the songs (except POW). Forsaken, TDEN, and TMOLS used to be very low in my ranking, but now I am getting kinda into them. :lol
On the other side of the coin, BCASL is rapidly going downhill for me. When I first got the album, I loved it. It was probably a top 5 album for me. But now it really doesn't impress me. There are awesome moment in almost every song, but it seems like there is just so much filler that is weighing it down. Everyone is familiar with the common gripes about ANTR and AROP's solo spots, but I think ACOT has that problem too! Someone made a thead that the first and last three minutes of ACOT are mindblowing, and, while I have to agree, the rest is just not that impressive.
So at this point in time, SC is probably number 7 or 8 and BCSL is probably 8 or 9, depending on how I feel about Octavarium (WDADU is last). But yeah, I'm kind of surprised with how these albums are evolving for me.
What do you guys think?
-
2009: BCSL > Systematic Chaos
2011: Systematic Chaos > BCSL
nuff said
-
I think SC may always be DT's second worst album.
-
I think SC may always be DT's second worst album.
Close....the worst.
-
2009: BCSL > Systematic Chaos
2011: BCSL > Systematic Chaos
nuff said
-
I think SC may always be DT's second worst album.
Close....the worst.
You'll hate me since I literally just read your rank WDADU in your top 3, but...WDADU is last.
-
Yeah, Systematic Chaos was underwhelming at first, but it hasn't aged poorly. If anything, its little quirks have become its defining characteristics and it's a cool little album, whereas Black Clouds seems a bit faceless in retrospect (though TCoT is, of course, a DT classic).
For me, Train of Thought ---> Black Clouds represent an incredibly average run of DT albums. None suck, and yet none have more than one or two (usually epic-length) tracks that I really care for. And each are basically interchangeable in my rankings-- after my top 4 (SDOIT, SFAM, I&W, Awake) and my rotating 5 and 6 (FII, WDADU), these four records make up my 7-10 in basically any order, depending on the day.
-
2009: BCSL >>>>> Systematic Chaos
2011: BCSL >>>>> Systematic Chaos
nuff said
-
2009: BCSL >>>>> Systematic Chaos
2011: BCSL >>>>> Systematic Chaos
nuff said
This is very true. SC is just a lame album to me, I don't think I'll ever rank it above last.
-
I understand what has come over the OP, as I had the exact same experience today with TOT. I never got into TOT, just never did...until today. Now I can't stop listening to it. It's like a brand new DT album to me. Funny how the brains comprehension of a band's music can change with time.
-
I think SC may always be DT's second worst album.
Close....the worst.
You'll hate me since I literally just read your rank WDADU in your top 3, but...WDADU is last.
It happens. It was my first introduction to the band. I still love it. But I get it if it wasn't your first intro to the band.
-
2009: BCSL >>>>> Systematic Chaos
2011: BCSL >>>>> Systematic Chaos
nuff said
This is very true. SC is just a lame album to me, I don't think I'll ever rank it above last.
-
I always prefered Systematic Chaos to Black Clouds. It's like comparing watermelon to beats. One is sweet and juicy, the other one is healthy, but makes your pee orange.
-
wut
-
I just find the riff in TDEN to be annoying, aside from the shred-fest late in the song.
But other than that I love SC, TMOLS is one of my favorite DT songs
-
Black Chaos & Systematic Linings
1. The Shattered Fortress
2. Constant Motion
3. The Dark Eternal Night
4. Forsaken
5. The Count of Tuscany
6. In The Presence of Enemies
-
Black Chaos & Systematic Linings
1. The Shattered Fortress
2. Constant Motion
3. The Dark Eternal Night
4. Forsaken
5. The Count of Tuscany
6. In The Presence of Enemies
That would be one amazing album. I don't know if I'd open it with The Shattered Fortress, though.
-
Black Chaos & Systematic Linings
1. The Shattered Fortress
2. Constant Motion
3. The Dark Eternal Night
4. Forsaken
5. The Count of Tuscany
6. In The Presence of Enemies
That would be one amazing album. I don't know if I'd open it with The Shattered Fortress, though.
why not just add another track and split ITPOE like it is on SC?!?!
INTPOE part 1 is my favorite album opener
-
Black Chaos & Systematic Linings
1. The Shattered Fortress
2. Constant Motion
3. The Dark Eternal Night
4. Forsaken
5. The Count of Tuscany
6. In The Presence of Enemies
That would be one amazing album. I don't know if I'd open it with The Shattered Fortress, though.
Yeah I wasn't sure about that either. Would TDEN's fade out into TSF's fade in be good, you think and open with Constant Motion?
-
Chaotic Clouds And Silver Systems
1. In The Presence of Enemies Pt. 1
2. ANTR intro/Beautiful Agony/TBOT solo (make it work, DT)
3. Constant Motion
4. Wither
5. Repentance
6. The Shattered Fortress
7. The Count of Tuscany
B-Sides
The Dark Eternal Night
A Rite of Passage
-
Black Chaos & Systematic Linings
1. The Shattered Fortress
2. Constant Motion
3. The Dark Eternal Night
4. Forsaken
5. The Count of Tuscany
6. In The Presence of Enemies
That would be one amazing album. I don't know if I'd open it with The Shattered Fortress, though.
why not just add another track and split ITPOE like it is on SC?!?!
INTPOE part 1 is my favorite album opener
Because the transition from TCoT to ITPoE Part 2 would be awful.
-
Chaotic Clouds And Systematic Linings
1. In The Presence of Enemies Pt. 1
2. ANTR intro/Beautiful Agony/TBOT solo (make it work, DT)
3. Constant Motion
4. Wither
5. Repentance
6. The Shattered Fortress
7. The Count of Tuscany
B-Sides
The Dark Eternal Night
A Rite of Passage
:hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
-
I changed the name to counterpoint Zook.
-
Actually, I can see the album opening with The Shattered Fortress as long as it starts right away like the instrumental, rather than fading it in. Fading it in would be a weak way to start an album, but if they just boom, started the music, then it could work as an opener.
-
Black Chaos & Systematic Linings
1. The Shattered Fortress
2. Constant Motion
3. The Dark Eternal Night
4. Forsaken
5. The Count of Tuscany
6. In The Presence of Enemies
That would be one amazing album. I don't know if I'd open it with The Shattered Fortress, though.
why not just add another track and split ITPOE like it is on SC?!?!
INTPOE part 1 is my favorite album opener
Because the transition from TCoT to ITPoE Part 2 would be awful.
nothing wrong with a 25 minute album opener :tup
-
Black Chaos & Systematic Linings
1. The Shattered Fortress
2. Constant Motion
3. The Dark Eternal Night
4. Forsaken
5. The Count of Tuscany
6. In The Presence of Enemies
That would be one amazing album. I don't know if I'd open it with The Shattered Fortress, though.
why not just add another track and split ITPOE like it is on SC?!?!
INTPOE part 1 is my favorite album opener
Because the transition from TCoT to ITPoE Part 2 would be awful.
nothing wrong with a 25 minute album opener :tup
I probably wouldn't complain, but thinking like a producer, it wouldn't be a good move for the casual listener.
-
On the other side of the coin, BCASL is rapidly going downhill for me. When I first got the album, I loved it. It was probably a top 5 album for me. But now it really doesn't impress me. There are awesome moment in almost every song, but it seems like there is just so much filler that is weighing it down. Everyone is familiar with the common gripes about ANTR and AROP's solo spots, but I think ACOT has that problem too! Someone made a thead that the first and last three minutes of ACOT are mindblowing, and, while I have to agree, the rest is just not that impressive.
I completely agree. Each song has things about it that I like, but they're relatively few compared to the stuff I don't care for.
However, SC, Octavarium, and Train of Thought suffer from this same problem for the most part. And strangely, they all have about the same ratio of good to bad.
So at this point in time, SC is probably number 7 or 8 and BCSL is probably 8 or 9, depending on how I feel about Octavarium (WDADU is last). But yeah, I'm kind of surprised with how these albums are evolving for me.
Listen to WDADU more, and you may learn that it is actually better than all of DT's four most recent albums. :hat
-J
-
Listen to WDADU more, and you may learn that it is actually better than all of DT's four most recent albums. :hat
-J
Absolutely.
Personally, I can listen to these two albums, but they're mostly background noise to me. Systematic Chaos is slightly better since there are some great parts.
-
I've been kicking around the tracklisting for a hypothetical Black Clouds/Systematic Chaos combo album for awhile. Best I've come up with, without altering or editing any existing songs, is:
1. In The Presence Of Enemies, Pt. 1
2. Forsaken
3. Constant Motion
4. The Count Of Tuscany
5. Repentance
6. Wither
7. In The Presence Of Enemies, Pt. 2
Comes to about 73 minutes, and flows pretty well too. Having a long epic like TCOT right in the middle could be a bit WTF I guess, but then again, Awake did the same thing with AMBI. Repentance and Wither are nice breathers afterwards, and I always enjoyed ITPOEpt2.
As for the leftover tracks.... I dunno. The Dark Eternal Night has cringeworthy verses, but I enjoy the rest of it. ANTR has Beautiful Agony, and a cool intro, everything else I don't really care for. The Ministry Of Lost Souls would make a cool Lifting Shadows-type song if you extracted the instrumental. Prophets Of War is basically fine, just a bit uninspired. The Shattered Fortress, The Best Of Times, A Rite Of Passage.... Gah, they're all over the place. I don't even know where you'd begin editing all that down.
I would honestly just scrap all these songs entirely (along with Raw Dog.... Fun song, but there's potential for a bit more there), extract the cool parts, and go back to the drawing board. Make entirely new songs, and put together a new album. It worked for Metallica when they were making Death Magnetic, after all (We still like Death Magnetic, right?). I'm sure if some more time were spent in the arrangement department, some really cool stuff could come from it.
Then again, from the looks of things, they apparently just did this with ADTOE (hopefully!). We'll see.
-
Back when I was a complete DT n00b, Systematic Chaos was one of my favorite DT albums(Back when I was into more commercial stuff), after listening to all other DT albums with an open mind, it became one of my least favorite albums. But after a while, it's been growing on me again. The problem with Black Clouds and Silver Linings for me is that it has 6 songs and I only truly care for 3 of them, it feels like an EP.
-
2009: BCSL >>>>> Systematic Chaos
2011: BCSL >>>>> Systematic Chaos
nuff said
-
I agree with you, pretty much. I would place SC above Black Clouds, probably in third-to-last place after WDaDU and BCSL.
-
SC is one of the best albums ever, and Black Clouds is... LOL. Worst of the LaBrie days.
-
Systematic Chaos has aged incredibly poorly for me. Black Clouds on the other hand, while still not being particularly good, has grown on me a lot. In the end, Black Clouds > Systematic Chaos.
-
2009: BCSL < Systematic Chaos
2011: Systematic Chaos > BCSL
nuff said
fix'd
-
SC is my 9th favorite album, where BC&SL is 6th.
-
Both have their pros and cons. I'll take BC&SL over SC. But, I don't think it's WAY better.
-
Both have their pros and cons. I'll take BC&SL over SC. But, I don't think it's WAY better.
Loved both when they came out, not quite as big on them now. Still like BCSL more but half the songs drag at times now.
-
The dark eternal nightmare to remember
1. A nightmare to remember (1st half)
2. The dark eternal night
3. Wither (piano version)
4. A nightmare to remember (2nd half)
5. The dark eternal night (last few minutes reprise)
6. The count of tuscany (ending)
-
I'm currently in love with In The Presence of Enemies. A song I used to hate with a passion. I just love it.
Consider me a fan of Systematic Chaos now, a departure from things I said yesterday. I just love this album right now.
-
Systematic Chaos was my "introducer", the first Dream Theater thing I ever heard was the intro of In the Presence of Enemies Part I. This of course made Systematic Chaos my favorite album in the begining. Although it's not there at the top anymore I still have In the Presence of Enemies far up my top 10 and I like The Ministry of Lost Souls very much too (and The Dark Eternal Night if I'm in the right mood).
Although I did love Black Clouds and Silver Linings at first that was mainly because of the excitement of new material. Now I just can't like it like that again. It has some up-moments like the intro and outro to The Count of Tuscany and "Beautiful Agony". But the less great stuff allways bothers me, like weird lyrics, undynamic vocal melodies, far to long solos (I love instrumental section, they can be however long they want but I'm not a big fan of to long solos) and unispired riffs.
-
SC is pretty stagnant for me (somewhere in the lower tier); BCASL didn't age really well, although it's still in the upper half of my album ranking.
-
SC is a very fun listen it's easy on the ears. It felt like after the high emotion of Score, that the band basically went in and just had fun. Not the greatest album, but I was willing to give them a pass. So I had high expectations for BC&SL, but unfortunately, there's not enough distance between the two musically. In their entire catalog, they're the two back to back albums that are most closely related.
If I rank the tracks it looks like this.
1. The Count Of Tuscany
2. The Best Of Times
3. In The Presence Of Enemies
4. The Dark Eternal Night
5. The Ministry Of Lost Souls
6. Prophets Of War
7. Forsaken
8. A Nightmare To Remember
9. Wither
10. Constant Motion
11. A Rite Of Passage
12. Repentance
13 The Shattered Fortress
-
Systematic's no longer a dangerous new direction, which kind of makes it easier to like. It's something that happened, they've written two more albums since, which - as time passes - makes it harder to resent and easier to love. It's no longer "what's happening to my favourite band?" It's "something that happened to my favourite band," which is a lot more digestible. FII, at the time, showed symptoms of something dangerous creeping over the band, but it's since been vindicated on its strengths rather than its weaknesses. Same applies to Awake, in fact. Took quite a lot of years, and there are still people who don't like it just as there will always be those who dislike Systematic Chaos - but as time passes, any grudges become that little bit more irrational.
Not to mention, as time passes, we shed those who were truly alienated by Systematic Chaos, keeping those who didn't hate it that much, so new generations of fans will be those who aren't that bothered by it.
I've always preferred SC slightly, though. It's got a lot more character to it - it's an interesting album which broached a lot of new ground, as opposed to BCSL, which had an element of "phoning it in" for - arguably - the first time in their career. Both good albums, but SC's more unique, and thereby the more compelling listen. BCSL, by and large, just strikes me as a more austere Systematic Chaos.
-
SC is a very fun listen it's easy on the ears. It felt like after the high emotion of Score, that the band basically went in and just had fun. Not the greatest album, but I was willing to give them a pass. So I had high expectations for BC&SL, but unfortunately, there's not enough distance between the two musically. In their entire catalog, they're the two back to back albums that are most closely related.
If I rank the tracks it looks like this.
1. The Count Of Tuscany
2. The Best Of Times
3. In The Presence Of Enemies
4. The Dark Eternal Night
5. The Ministry Of Lost Souls
6. Prophets Of War
7. Forsaken
8. A Nightmare To Remember
9. Wither
10. Constant Motion
11. A Rite Of Passage
12. Repentance
13 The Shattered Fortress
1. The Count of Tuscany
2. In The Presence of Enemies
3. Repentance
4. The Best of Times
5. A Nightmare To Remember
6. The Shattered Fortress
7. The Ministry of Lost Souls
8. Wither
9. Prophets of War
10. The Dark Eternal Night
11. A Rite of Passage
12. Constant Motion
13. Forsaken
-
I think they both suck.
-
2009: SC > BC&SL
2011: SC > BC&SL
I'll try to rank the songs...
The Ministry of lost souls
In the presence of enemies
The Count of Tuscany
A Nightmare to remember
Repentance
The Best of times
Wither
Constant motion
Prophets of war
Forsaken
The Dark eternal night
A Rite of passage
The Shattered fortress
-
2009: SC > BC&SL
2011: SC > BC&SL
I'll try to rank the songs...
The Ministry of lost souls
In the presence of enemies
The Count of Tuscany
A Nightmare to remember
Repentance
The Best of times
Wither
Constant motion
Prophets of war
Forsaken
The Dark eternal night
A Rite of passage
The Shattered fortress
In terms of song rankings pretty much what I would've said for the first 5, but I'd put CM and Forsaken higher and TBOT much, much lower.
-
Listen to WDADU more, and you may learn that it is actually better than all of DT's four most recent albums. :hat
-J
Hell yes! This 100%
-
Yeah, I listened to SC again last night (I know the album well, but I had not touched it even once since BC&SL came out. I thought BC&SL was way better and that there was no need for SC).
I was pretty amused by the album actually. ITPOE is pretty good, still the weakest DT epic though. Forsaken is a really cool song, CM is a cool guilty pleasure, TDEN slays, Repentance has a very good JP solo, PoW plain sucks, MOLS was better than I remembered.
So yeah, SC is pretty cool. BC&SL is still better though, but as someone said: SC definately has more of a 'face' as a record. BC&SL is way too vanilla, but of the highest quality.
At the end of the day, I love BC&SL more, but it's not as far away from SC as it once was.
-
Listen to WDADU more, and you may learn that it is actually better than all of DT's four most recent albums. :hat
-J
Hell yes! This 100%
I always count the WDADRu because of the continuity of James's voice, but yes, that generally ranks as my #3 or #4 DT album. I hardly ever listen to the Charlie version.
-
Listen to WDADU more, and you may learn that it is actually better than all of DT's four most recent albums. :hat
-J
Hell yes! This 100%
I always count the WDADRu because of the continuity of James's voice, but yes, that generally ranks as my #3 or #4 DT album. I hardly ever listen to the Charlie version.
me too, though I'd probably rank it a little lower
-
Listen to WDADU more, and you may learn that it is actually better than all of DT's four most recent albums. :hat
-J
Hell yes! This 100%
I always count the WDADRu because of the continuity of James's voice, but yes, that generally ranks as my #3 or #4 DT album. I hardly ever listen to the Charlie version.
Regardless of the version, I've always thought the songwriting on When Dream and Day Unite is strong enough to put it in the top half of Dream Theater albums. It feels like the precursor to Images and Words that it is, which makes it a very, very good album.
I can't conceive of ranking BC&SL or SC above it. These two albums meander so much that they actually qualify previously unfair criticisms of Dream Theater (directionless jams, lack of songwriting, dumb lyrics). It's almost like the band was trying to parody itself to an extent. Not that bad, but bad enough to leave a sour taste.
In practically every department that should matter most, WDaDU did right what Dream Theater's most recent albums did wrong. It's weaker in terms of vocals and production, but if the songs are better, that should be easily overcome.
-
I hardly listen to either one these days. They are what they are.
-
Listen to WDADU more, and you may learn that it is actually better than all of DT's four most recent albums. :hat
-J
Hell yes! This 100%
I always count the WDADRu because of the continuity of James's voice, but yes, that generally ranks as my #3 or #4 DT album. I hardly ever listen to the Charlie version.
Regardless of the version, I've always thought the songwriting on When Dream and Day Unite is strong enough to put it in the top half of Dream Theater albums. It feels like the precursor to Images and Words that it is, which makes it a very, very good album.
I can't conceive of ranking BC&SL or SC above it. These two albums meander so much that they actually qualify previously unfair criticisms of Dream Theater (directionless jams, lack of songwriting, dumb lyrics). It's almost like the band was trying to parody itself to an extent. Not that bad, but bad enough to leave a sour taste.
In practically every department that should matter most, WDaDU did right what Dream Theater's most recent albums did wrong. It's weaker in terms of vocals and production, but if the songs are better, that should be easily overcome.
Very well said! I hardly listen to BC&SL and SC as well. The most listened to song between both of them as of late on my iPod is Wither.
-
I guess I can "sort of" identify with what you are waying in the OP, H, but I don't think that reflects poorly on BCSL for me at all. I typically find myself going through a cycle with DT's material where when a new album comes out, I like it a lot and listen to it incessantly. By the time the next album comes out, I've kind of burned out on it and don't like it as much, but then by the time the next album after that is about ready to come out, it seems like that first album really has its own valuable place in the DT discography and climbs a few rungs. So following that pattern, I've found myself listening to SC a lot more lately and liking it, and not liking BCSL as much.
But one thing I will say about both albums: While I don't see a consistent drop in quality on the Roadrunner albums as a few people would suggest, I see bigger gaps between the songs that are really good and the ones that really don't interest me. I've posted before about how SC is an amazing half or 2/3 of an album. But the stuff I don't care for is really "skipable," and I never really found myself skipping a lot of DT songs before these two albums. Take ITPOE, Forsaken, Constant Motion, A Nightmare To Remember, and The Shattered Fortress together, and you have what I would consider one of the strongest, if not THE strongest collection of DT songs around. And if you really want to throw in some filler, you've got a lot of "okay" songs you can toss in between The Dark Eternal Night, Repentence, A Rite Of Passage, Wither, and The Count of Tuscany. But then you've got songs that I just don't connect with at all and don't care if I ever hear again, and they take up a lot of minutes on the albums so that when you combine them with the more middle of the road songs, the really strong moments just don't seem to shine quite as much.
-
^ When I found out that BC&SL had only 6 songs, I thought it would have 6 great songs, since I really don't think that albums with such a small amount of songs should have "fillers". I expected something like SDOIT, in which all of the songs feel equally great.
A good anime with lots of fillers is completely ruined for me. :'(
-
Great Songs
Constant Motion
In the Presence of Enemies
The Count of Tuscany
A Nightmare to Remember
The Shattered Fortress
Pretty Good Songs
The Ministry of Lost Souls
The Dark Eternal Night
Meh Songs
Repentance
Forsaken
Wither
Lame-o Songs
A Rite of Passage
Prophets of War
Based on this mock-up, it's really hard to decide which is better for me. But I just feel like SC is a better album. Maybe I am burnt out on BCSL and SC just feels fresh.
-
Post
I'm doing that one too.
Great Songs
In the Presence of Enemies
The Ministry of Lost Souls (though this changes sometimes)
Repentance
Pretty Good Songs
The Count of Tuscany
A Nightmare to Remember
The Dark Eternal Night
The Shattered Fortress
Prophets of War
Meh Songs
Constant Motion
Forsaken
Wither
Lame-o Songs
The Best of Times
A Rite of Passage
-
Is there some reason you guys are leaving out The Best of Times? Just curious.
-
Fixed it.
-
Is there some reason you guys are leaving out The Best of Times? Just curious.
It was totally 100% MP's song and had we known he was about to quit the band, we wouldn't have even put it on our album.
-
Ah, fair enough. Just wondered.
-
Is there some reason you guys are leaving out The Best of Times? Just curious.
It was totally 100% MP's song and had we known he was about to quit the band, we wouldn't have even put it on our album.
That seems eerily similar to mp's space dye vest quote o wait.
-
^ When I found out that BC&SL had only 6 songs, I thought it would have 6 great songs, since I really don't think that albums with such a small amount of songs should have "fillers". I expected something like SDOIT, in which all of the songs feel equally great.
A good anime with lots of fillers is completely ruined for me. :'(
This killed Bleach for me and has made me pass alot of Naruto. Both Manga are great, but the anime both meander far too much from the source material.
As to the topic at hand. I enjoy both albums and they probably rank in the middle of my DT rankings. However, I am finding I don't listen to SC much as an "album". Other than Constant Motion (which I play rarely), the other songs I will pull up when the mood strikes. I really enjoy Forsaken (love the Piano intro and the story in the lyrics) and ITPOE (which I tend to combine into an epic). The rest of the songs I'll pull out individually and enjoy. However, BC&SL I like to listen to as an album. I feel like the whole thing "fits" in a way that no other album has since Awake.
Not sure which I prefer, but it mainly depends on if I want to dedicate 70+ minutes to a single album or jump through some songs.
-
To me, both albums are pretty great, but they're on the bottom of my top DT albums list because (ignore me being a fanboy), I love DT and each of their other albums have some amazing moments that are some of the reasons I love music as a whole, and progressive metal in particular.
I also hated Systematic Chaos for a pretty long time. It's a great album, but DT pushes two of the directions of their music presented in TOT and 8V: their metal, heavy side, and their side that's inspired by bands like Muse. However this album is a unique addition to DT's catalog, and it has some incredible moments.
I never liked BCSL that much, mostly because it's very formulaic and generic when compared to other albums of DT in my opinion. However, it does have it's amazing moments. Surprisingly, my favorite track in this album is The Best of Times, and I can get into details about that, but that's not the point right now.
These albums are also on the bottom of my list because they have the two tracks of DT that I genuinely dislike - A Rite of Passage and Repentance. But I still love these albums, and they're great. The best thing about DT is that I could happily listen to what I consider their worst material any day, because it's still good and well-thought.
-
What's wrong with Repentence?
-
Hate to use a cliche phrase, but that song really drags on. The section of spoken apologies takes too long, and the instrumental section takes even longer. A lot of great DT songs don't feel as long as they are, because they're so fun to listen to that the long time flies by - this song is the opposite for me. It feels much, much longer than it is.
-
Same here. In principle, everything in the song is a great idea. But in practice, I don't find that it makes for a song that I am interested in listening to very often.
-
Hate to use a cliche phrase, but that song really drags on. The section of spoken apologies takes too long, and the instrumental section takes even longer. A lot of great DT songs don't feel as long as they are, because they're so fun to listen to that the long time flies by - this song is the opposite for me. It feels much, much longer than it is.
You know what though? I don't like it when DT uses any kinds of samples in general. Not in Voices, not in The Mirror... But ESPECIALLY not in Space-Dye Vest, Honor Thy Father, or Repentance. Even if the Repentance ones were recorded specifically for it. I'd rather listen to a minute and a half of a repeating riff if that's all that's backing it, to be honest.
-
I don't care what anyone says or thinks, I honestly enjoy A Rite of Passage. I do not understand its bad reputation here. I love the chorus especially, and the instrumental section. The lyrics are cool too. Do people just not like it because it is actually sort of "catchy"?
Also, SC > BC&SL for me, as a whole. I only really listen to the opener and closer of BC&SL, with an occasional AROP.
-
I don't care what anyone says or thinks, I honestly enjoy A Rite of Passage. I do not understand its bad reputation here. I love the chorus especially, and the instrumental section. The lyrics are cool too. Do people just not like it because it is actually sort of "catchy"?
Also, SC > BC&SL for me, as a whole. I only really listen to the opener and closer of BC&SL, with an occasional AROP.
Nah, if anything, most people agree that the chorus is epic, and the verses are passable. It's the use of a single riff over 8 minutes, on top of a melody-lacking instrumental section that turn people away.
-
I still think A Rite Of Passage is an awesome song. But if we're comparing Black Clouds to Systematic Chaos, I still prefer Constant Motion and Forsaken over Rite of Passage.
-
I don't care what anyone says or thinks, I honestly enjoy A Rite of Passage. I do not understand its bad reputation here. I love the chorus especially, and the instrumental section. The lyrics are cool too. Do people just not like it because it is actually sort of "catchy"?
Also, SC > BC&SL for me, as a whole. I only really listen to the opener and closer of BC&SL, with an occasional AROP.
Nah, if anything, most people agree that the chorus is epic, and the verses are passable. It's the use of a single riff over 8 minutes, on top of a melody-lacking instrumental section that turn people away.
Interesting - I guess a good guitar riff can be repeated without me caring, because I never thought about it as being repetitive. I suppose that's because I enjoy it! :-)
I always liked the instrumental section, despite the general lack of melody. Oh well, to each his own!
-
I think AROP is a cool song, very good chorus.
-
Speaking of SC, did anyone listen to the 5.1 Surround Sound version. I actually think it makes the album that much more rocking. It has a lot of double bass and actually when you listen to it on Surround Sound, JM cuts through and has some amazing lines.
-
BC&SL is still better.
-
Speaking of SC, did anyone listen to the 5.1 Surround Sound version. I actually think it makes the album that much more rocking. It has a lot of double bass and actually when you listen to it on Surround Sound, JM cuts through and has some amazing lines.
I listened to it once at my friend's place. I remember it being pretty damn awesome, but it's been so long... I really need to get my own surround sound system.
-
I listened to it once too. It was pretty good as usual. It pisses me of that it's gone and I can't find it anymore.
-
I listened to it once too. It was pretty good as usual. It pisses me of that it's gone and I can't find it anymore.
Buy a new one.
There are some minor scratches on my Scenes From A Memory CD, it plays just fine, but I'm thinking of buying another copy just to make sure I have a mint one.
-
I find BC to be rather weak in terms of DT standards, but a good album, nonetheless. Meanwhile, I'd say that SC is a very fun album and among my favorite albums by any band to come out in the 00s. In the grand scheme of things, though, I prefer Octovarium over either.
-
Speaking of SC, did anyone listen to the 5.1 Surround Sound version. I actually think it makes the album that much more rocking. It has a lot of double bass and actually when you listen to it on Surround Sound, JM cuts through and has some amazing lines.
I would love to. I did a long time ago, but my parents were home so I couldn't blast it or anything.
-
Speaking of SC, did anyone listen to the 5.1 Surround Sound version. I actually think it makes the album that much more rocking. It has a lot of double bass and actually when you listen to it on Surround Sound, JM cuts through and has some amazing lines.
This makes SC go from great to incredible! On a proper system, this is absolutely mindblowing! I wish they did this on EVERY album!
-
Agree with OP. Systematic Chaos hasn't necessarily gotten better to me, but man has BC&SL gotten worse. I LOVED it at first. I remember when ANTR gave me chills from a DT song for the first time in many years...and I had that big "DT is back!!!" moment... ;D
But yea that didn't last too long. At it's best, BC&SL has DT all time great album potential. However, there's just too much underwhelming/filler moments IMO...
-
I listened to it once too. It was pretty good as usual. It pisses me of that it's gone and I can't find it anymore.
some one took mine out of the dvd player and misplaced it : /