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General => Polls/Survivors => Topic started by: ariich on May 03, 2011, 04:02:56 AM
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It is getting a little silly now (well, it was silly from the start, but yeah), so I wanted to make some suggestions.
To those who are running survivors, particularly ones that attract a reasonable number of voters, might I suggest that instead of using a poll, get people to post their votes? I know it means a bit more work for you but, to be honest, it's not like it's that many, and doing so will either stop or at the very least allow us to see the trolls.
To those who defensively start claiming that we are overreacting, just give it up. The claims of "the results are obviously real stop taking it so seriously lol" are just irritating and, frankly, slightly suspicious. We are not "taking it too seriously" at all; obviously these survivors don't actually matter and are really just for a bit of fun/interest, but the entire reason that we run them is to gauge the opinions/consensus of the forum. If trolls are going to ruin this, then it entirely defeats the point of running them and we may as well just get rid of this sub-forum. The claim that "it happened twice in a row so the results must be real" is also pretty laughable; I think it's safe to assume that these trolls have nothing better to do with their time than spoil the fun of others, so it is absolutely believable that they would do it over and over again.
That's all I'm going to say on the matter. There's no point in addressing the trolls because they clearly have no intention of listening anyway, so as I said, my recommendation is to run the survivors via posts rather than polls.
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So what are the trolls doing? are you saying people register new accounts to put extra votes on their favorite options?
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Well I haven't noticed any trolling on the Maiden survivor yet (aside from the outrageous voters for this album! >:( ), so I'll continue using polls for now.
Thanks for the heads up, Ariich.
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So what are the trolls doing? are you saying people register new accounts to put extra votes on their favorite options?
As far as we can tell it is people who don't usually take part in the surivivor voting for a popular song just to screw with the results.
Well I haven't noticed any trolling on my survivor yet (aside from the outrageous voters for this album! >:( ), so I'll continue using polls for now.
Thanks for the heads up, Ariich.
Fo' sho', if you don't suspect any shenanigans then don't worry too much about it. But if you do, then I think changing the way of doing is better than re-running rounds (which is what I did in the DT one) or just eliminating the song with the next highest votes (as some others have done), both of which end up being a bit contentious, and the former just ends up pointless if the trolls do the same thing again. :lol
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Well I haven't noticed any trolling on my survivor yet (aside from the outrageous voters for this album! >:( ), so I'll continue using polls for now.
Thanks for the heads up, Ariich.
Same here with my Judas Priest survivor. But I'll keep it in mind if it should occur.
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Hahahaha. Ohhh, internet comedians.
(...Are rarely funny.)
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I just posted the new round of Amorphis survivor before reading this, dammit! :lol Well, I haven't noticed any trolling, but I think it'd be more interesting if everyone posted their votes, as no one (besides me) is posting in the Amorphis survivor.
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How about... let only ppl with x amounts of posts vote?
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Yeah, about 465 posts would be enough IMO.
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I just posted the new round of Amorphis survivor before reading this, dammit! :lol Well, I haven't noticed any trolling, but I think it'd be more interesting if everyone posted their votes, as no one (besides me) is posting in the Amorphis survivor.
For the survivors with up to maybe 10 votes a round, it's not such a big deal as any increase in votes from trolls will (or at least should) be noticable. It's more for the bigger ones really.
How about... let only ppl with x amounts of posts vote?
I'm not a big fan of this idea, especially as I have no idea whether it's even possible. But by getting everyone to post their votes, the person running the survivor can implement such a policy if they like.
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I just posted the new round of Amorphis survivor before reading this, dammit! :lol Well, I haven't noticed any trolling, but I think it'd be more interesting if everyone posted their votes, as no one (besides me) is posting in the Amorphis survivor.
For the survivors with up to maybe 10 votes a round, it's not such a big deal as any increase in votes from trolls will (or at least should) be noticable. It's more for the bigger ones really.
Ah, I see. But I guess it's still good to get people post in the threads, to see if they really know the songs and care about the survivor.
Yeah, about 465 posts would be enough IMO.
I see what you did there!
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It's kinda obvious what people are trolling the PT-survivor, but changing to another system with posting instead of voting in a poll is probably a good thing. :tup
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ariich seems to be the only one who has ever backed me up when I cry foul on trolls.
I'll try the Muse survivor with the new system, and we'll see how it goes.
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ariich seems to be the only one who has ever backed me up when I cry foul on trolls.
I'll try the Muse survivor with the new system, and we'll see how it goes.
You should also implement a rule that Justin's vote does not count because he hates Muse. :P
And I'm not the only one, there were a number of us who agreed with you, and who agreed with me when I noticed it in the DT survivor. Which will be done by posts this year.
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The best solution would be to make it to where it shows who voted for each song, but, sadly, this site does not have that option.
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I saw a mod in the SMF site that does that, but I think only admins can use it once it is in place. I also saw other mods that give weights to poll responses depending on membergroups and other nifty stuff.
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The best solution would be to make it to where it shows who voted for each song, but, sadly, this site does not have that option.
Yeah that would be pretty good as it would have the same effect but keep it easy for everyone, but SMF doesn't offer that by default.
I saw a mod in the SMF site that does that, but I think only admins can use it once it is in place.
Hmm, it would be something, but it would still be a bit of a hassle for the admins to have to get involved all the time. If you see a mod that shows it publicly (in the way that I think vbulletin does) let us know!
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Well I try psot systemm which as I remember was present on DTF.net, with starting Keeper pt. 2 ;)
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Sooooo when I randomly see a survivor/poll pop up in the unread posts and I feel like voting, I'm trolling?
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Sooooo when I randomly see a survivor/poll pop up in the unread posts and I feel like voting, I'm trolling?
??? No.
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Sooooo when I randomly see a survivor/poll pop up in the unread posts and I feel like voting, I'm trolling?
??? No.
Well good to know. I just didn't want to be causing issues since I don't really follow any of them closely. I just vote when I feel like it lol
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:lol That's fine, that wouldn't impact massively on the overall results!
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I vote for Rich.
Edit: as winner of course. Wouldn't want to vote him out.
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How about some kind of implementation to see a voting history?
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Why can't the site be upgraded to eliminate the problem like Kev suggested? I don't see why a bunch of people should change what they do in a survivor just because of a few trolls.
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Well, the ideal solution would be for there to be no trolling at all...
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in after we take something fun serious.
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In after Zack defines trolling as "fun".
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Yeah, precisely. It's "fun" in the same way as breaking a child's toys is fun. No matter how inane their game was, you're the one who looks like a massive cunt.
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And robwebster swoops in with a stunner.
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In after Zack defines trolling as "fun".
I meant the entire idea of survivors.
They're fun, and to make a big deal out of them kind of ruins it if you ask me.
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Trolling is pretty much as immature as it gets on the internet.
I mean, I can be immature at times myself, but there's actually people who are like this at all times. :/
Sure survivors are for fun, but the point of them is to see what songs are most liked on the forum, and that isn't possible when people vote for the "popular" songs, just for the sake of it.
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In after Zack defines trolling as "fun".
I meant the entire idea of survivors.
They're fun, and to make a big deal out of them kind of ruins it if you ask me.
I think deliberately skewing the results that everyone was looking forward to simply because you're a bit of a prick ruins it exponentially more.
Y'know, if we're trying to being all faux-laconic and devil-may-care about it.
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Why can't it be both fun and serious? As long as no one is trolling, the survivors work well and are fun. If you think taking it seriously ruins the fun, don't take it seriously. But don't ruin it for those of us that are actually interested in the results. Why is that such a crime?
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I agree with Set. I find it quite interesting to see others opinions on the best songs of a band. Thats why I join music forums in the first place, and survivors are a great way of doing that :)
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Yeah, trolling these is stupid. :P The srs bsns argument is pretty lame too, as games have rules. :P
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I'm still not even sure how one could skew a poll, guess I'm a noob?
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People make alternate accounts and then vote on all those accounts, I think.
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That or going in and just trying to mess with the results, such as voting for clear favourites early in a survivor.
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Yeah but I just don't see how one vote is that big of a deal. So its a small amount of people with lots of accounts?
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Something like that. It isn't usually a big deal. Basically, in running and participating in these things some people want to see accurate reflections of how people vote, so any goofiness obscures that.
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In after Zack defines trolling as "fun".
I meant the entire idea of survivors.
They're fun, and to make a big deal out of them kind of ruins it if you ask me.
Going to the cinema is fun, but if someone starts shouting and sets fire to the screen, I'd get pretty irritated.
Sorry but your justification is ridiculous. Of course it doesn't matter, but it is ONLY fun because the results are interesting. Skewing them removes the entire purpose of doing them. Unless you get some sort of strange joy out of picking an option and clicking "vote", which personally I find to be the rather mundane part of the overall process.
EDIT: I don't think it's alternate accounts, but rather a group of people who wouldn't be voting at all deliberately voting for a popular song to screw with the results.
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Yeah, in the past, it's been a group of like 8-9 people who just go in and vote for either the popular favourite, or a particular song of their choice.
At one point during last year's Opeth survivor, I had mentioned that The Drapery Falls was my favourite Opeth song. Because I'm vocally opposed to trolling, the group of trolls decided to spend several rounds attempting to vote it out. No one who actually posted their votes were owning up to voting for it, so it was pretty clear that it was a trolling problem. I put the survivor on hiatus for about 2 weeks until the trolls were called out and stopped. During that time, several other survivors got trolled.
For the most part, it's pretty obvious who is trolling. When someone vehemently defends the idea of trolling with the classic "srs bsns" argument, they are usually put on my radar. Not saying that everyone who doesn't mind trolling is a troll, but many are.
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The thing that I find funny is that you are implying that I am trolling when every time I do, I admit it.
You don't have to call me out because I was never hiding. Every time I troll a Survivor, I always post what I'm voting for.
Go check the IA one, every single round I voted for Trains and said it. Is it my least favorite song? No, it's one of my favorites, but it's not the best song on IA, and I figured voting it out earlier would be easier than voting it out when theres only a few songs left.
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The thing that I find funny is that you are implying that I am trolling when every time I do, I admit it.
You don't have to call me out because I was never hiding. Every time I troll a Survivor, I always post what I'm voting for.
Go check the IA one, every single round I voted for Trains and said it. Is it my least favorite song? No, it's one of my favorites, but it's not the best song on IA, and I figured voting it out earlier would be easier than voting it out when theres only a few songs left.
Before I go into this post I apologize if I'm stirring a pot that has long since settled since it's been a while since anyone's posted in here but seeing as how it hasn't been locked yet I guess the discussion remains open.
To address the red text from quadrochosis I have a few things to say. Your post makes it clear that you know the object of each round of a survivor is to vote out the consensus least favorite song. I literally very much want to know what makes it appealing to have the results reflect your own opinion more than the opinion of all the ones whom voted honestly. It's almost like saying a huge "Fuck you!" to those whom have spent time investing their honest opinions for these survivors.
If you think I'm taking this too seriously then don't you think the trolls are even worse about taking it too seriously since they're (at times) so bothered about the "results always being the same" that they have to screw with something where the only purpose whatsoever is to get an accurate reflection of the body of voters participating in it? It comes off like you can't handle others having an opinion differing from yours so the trolls selfishly hijack the survivor with the attitude of "our opinion matters more." Just a very inconsiderate thing to do to others that are just trying to have a legitimately fun time that doesn't cause any harm to anyone else.
Also, what's the big issue if the survivor results are undesirable for you? They obviously don't determine future setlists, tracklistings on "best of" albums, or even one thing more than simply a reflection of a bunch of borderline strangers on an internet forum.
I really wanna see what your reasoning is so by all means reply and I promise I'll remain respectful and nonhostile.
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Too bad he can't reply :P
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Too bad he can't reply :P
:facepalm:
Okay, I still leave the question open for anyone who's ever defended trolling survivors...
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You're about 2 months late now. :P
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The thing that I find funny is that you are implying that I am trolling when every time I do, I admit it.
You don't have to call me out because I was never hiding. Every time I troll a Survivor, I always post what I'm voting for.
Go check the IA one, every single round I voted for Trains and said it. Is it my least favorite song? No, it's one of my favorites, but it's not the best song on IA, and I figured voting it out earlier would be easier than voting it out when theres only a few songs left.
You need to stop posting here. Good God dude.
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lol
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The thing that I find funny is that you are implying that I am trolling when every time I do, I admit it.
You don't have to call me out because I was never hiding. Every time I troll a Survivor, I always post what I'm voting for.
Go check the IA one, every single round I voted for Trains and said it. Is it my least favorite song? No, it's one of my favorites, but it's not the best song on IA, and I figured voting it out earlier would be easier than voting it out when theres only a few songs left.
You need to stop posting here. Good God dude.
I know right? What a douche.
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I miss you Zack :sadpanda:
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I dont.
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The best solution would be to make it to where it shows who voted for each song, but, sadly, this site does not have that option.
I don't like that idea, if i voted for a song everybody else liked, even if it was my actual opinion, people would accuse me of trolling.
An example is that i voted for Trial Of Tears in the Falling Into Infinity survivor after Just Let Me Breathe and You Not Me were voted out because i really like every other song on Falling Into Infinity better, but if someone saw that i would immediatley be accused of trolling.
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Really not much left to discuss here... so I'm just locking, but of course the no trolling thing is still in effect.