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General => Archive => Political and Religious => Topic started by: Quadrochosis on April 18, 2011, 12:57:16 PM
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I'm not sure if religiosity is the right word to use here, but I can't really think of another term to describe it. Basically, over the past few months, I've began to notice that Christians (of any denomination) tend to be the most "religious" and "adamant" about the fact that their religion is right and that all other religions are wrong.
From talking to Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc. (or even reading things that they have written, or speeches I've attended) it seems that most world religions tend to be fairly open about the fact that their religion is one of many, and that other religions are just as credible as theirs. For the most part, however, Christians tend to hold an opposing view to that. The large majority of Christians that I interact with in some way (through dialog, reading, listening, etc.) tend to be very adamant about Christianity being the "one true religion" and the others as being heresies or just simply falsifications of their true religion.
Now, I realize that there are definitely some exceptions that some may have to this, including:
1. I live in America, where most people are Christians (at least nominally), so there's a greater likelihood that I will encounter people of this persuasion.
2. I'm in a college setting usually, where younger people tend to be more idealistic, and thus share their beliefs in a more "hardcore way"
3. I live in an extremely conservative area, so the population is just naturally going to be a bit more traditional
However, I still think that there are other reasons as to why Christians tend to be more "hostile" (using that word as kindly as possible) towards other religions. The problem is, I'm not sure why. Sure, the Bible says that Jesus is the "way" and stuff, but virtually every religion makes truth claims like that.
So I guess I am making this topic to ask for some reasons as to why some (if not many) Christians are very adamant about the fact that their religion is the "one true religion".
Also, if you don't feel that you have encountered this, please also speak up. I honestly feel a distinction though (as far as tone, attitude, etc.)
Cheers
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The Bible is pretty clear on the subject - John 14:6 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14%3A6&version=NIV) is one example among many. That message filters down from the pulpit to the average Christian, and you hear it from your friends and classmates. When you say "Sure, the Bible says that Jesus is the 'way'..." you're ignoring the answer to your question. Since Christianity is such a bookish religion, the fact that the Bible contains verses like the one above is very significant to Christians.
Also, if you don't feel that you have encountered this, please also speak up. I honestly feel a distinction though (as far as tone, attitude, etc.)
As far as the monotheistic religions are concerned, I haven't had your experience. Judaism and Islam, as you mentioned, both make the exclusivity claim too, and I haven't seen anymore openness among followers of either. That being said, every faith has its collection of jerks; I think you're describing Christianity's jerks when you talk about people being hostile toward others.
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It is always critical for me to distinguish between "religion" and God/Christ. They are many religions that are sectarian and claim they are the only one, etc. This results in endless arguments, divisiveness and turmoil. In regard to Christ, as WW pointed out, Jesus was very clear that He is the only way. In this age of relativism, that is unnacceptable culturally, but Jesus' words stand plain.
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Yahweh is a jealous god and followers of Abrahamic religions are jealous of other truth claims.
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I know Mormonism is a pretty extreme example of this. I was raised in the belief that my religion was the only true one and that all the other religions had bits and pieces of truth but were ultimately mislead. It's one of the things that left such a bad taste in my mouth for Mormonism.
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Christianity is an "absolute truth" based religion meaning that Christ is viewed as the only truth and other views are not legitimate. Most orthodox Christians maintain this viewpoint even though in our current cultural climate this is a very unpopular position because it appears intolerant. Some liberal Christians do not hold the position (I know a few personally) and will accept the idea of other religions being a valid means to obtaining salvation.
At a fundamental level this difference in viewpoint usually boils down to truth in regards to a works based salvation (which most every other religion teaches and find common ground in) and a Grace based salvation which is fairly unique to Christianity.
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Well, such religions also try to scare you out of thinking freely as well. In Christianity it seems that the way of thinking is that once you're a Christian, if you question your that or consider not following it then you feel a sort of guilt towards Jesus and you're in danger of getting on god's bad side and getting thrown into hell (or something similar) for all of eternity. So that there prevents them from considering other options or religions. Also, it brings with it a feeling that you don't want other people who practice other religions to go to hell, so you do your best to save them from that.
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Well, such religions also try to scare you out of thinking freely as well. In Christianity it seems that the way of thinking is that once you're a Christian, if you question your that or consider not following it then you feel a sort of guilt towards Jesus and you're in danger of getting on god's bad side and getting thrown into hell (or something similar) for all of eternity. So that there prevents them from considering other options or religions. Also, it brings with it a feeling that you don't want other people who practice other religions to go to hell, so you do your best to save them from that.
I'm not sure I would equate the Christian theology of salvation to "scaring you out of thinking freely". I never understood this idea that believing something to be truth = close mindedness.
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I never understood this idea that believing something to be truth = close mindedness.
Well, by definition is it closed mindedness. If there are multiple different theories to something, and you choose to believe one over all others even though there is no real definite proof or reason to do so, your decision making is closed off to other alternatives.
By contrast though, incessant atheists are just as closed minded as Christians (to be fair)
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Well, such religions also try to scare you out of thinking freely as well. In Christianity it seems that the way of thinking is that once you're a Christian, if you question your that or consider not following it then you feel a sort of guilt towards Jesus and you're in danger of getting on god's bad side and getting thrown into hell (or something similar) for all of eternity. So that there prevents them from considering other options or religions. Also, it brings with it a feeling that you don't want other people who practice other religions to go to hell, so you do your best to save them from that.
I'm not sure I would equate the Christian theology of salvation to "scaring you out of thinking freely". I never understood this idea that believing something to be truth = close mindedness.
I disagree with that as well. But in all fairness, I don't think sonata is completely off base either because a lot of so-called Christian churches do either explicitly or implicitly teach people not to question. And even in a lot that don't, that is still what some people believe.
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Yahweh is a jealous god and followers of Abrahamic religions are jealous of other truth claims.
What?
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Well, such religions also try to scare you out of thinking freely as well. In Christianity it seems that the way of thinking is that once you're a Christian, if you question your that or consider not following it then you feel a sort of guilt towards Jesus and you're in danger of getting on god's bad side and getting thrown into hell (or something similar) for all of eternity. So that there prevents them from considering other options or religions. Also, it brings with it a feeling that you don't want other people who practice other religions to go to hell, so you do your best to save them from that.
I'm not sure I would equate the Christian theology of salvation to "scaring you out of thinking freely". I never understood this idea that believing something to be truth = close mindedness.
Christianity generally has the ground rule for its followers that straying from the path of christ is frowned upon, especially if you already believe in him. So that is to say that many Christians would have, at the very least, second thoughts about considering or immersing themselves in another religion (or lack of one). And of course, the ever-present threat of hell is in the mix as well (which goes hand-in-hand with a lot of things). All things considered, it's just not in the DNA of Christianity to encourage or allow for outside schools of thought, that's all.
And believing something to be the truth is not closed minded, but part of being open minded is to be able to change your beliefs about what is true as you learn more and consider more things. When a belief is unshakable because you don't leave room for it to be changed, then that is closed mindedness.
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I never understood this idea that believing something to be truth = close mindedness.
Well, by definition is it closed mindedness. If there are multiple different theories to something, and you choose to believe one over all others even though there is no real definite proof or reason to do so, your decision making is closed off to other alternatives.
By contrast though, incessant atheists are just as closed minded as Christians (to be fair)
I don't agree with that definition though. To me being closed minded is coming to a conclusion or truth position without looking at alternatives or evidences. I think there are many Christians who come to their faith after "freely thinking" other possible truths.
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Well, such religions also try to scare you out of thinking freely as well. In Christianity it seems that the way of thinking is that once you're a Christian, if you question your that or consider not following it then you feel a sort of guilt towards Jesus and you're in danger of getting on god's bad side and getting thrown into hell (or something similar) for all of eternity. So that there prevents them from considering other options or religions. Also, it brings with it a feeling that you don't want other people who practice other religions to go to hell, so you do your best to save them from that.
I'm not sure I would equate the Christian theology of salvation to "scaring you out of thinking freely". I never understood this idea that believing something to be truth = close mindedness.
Christianity generally has the ground rule for its followers that straying from the path of christ is frowned upon, especially if you already believe in him. So that is to say that many Christians would have, at the very least, second thoughts about considering or immersing themselves in another religion (or lack of one). And of course, the ever-present threat of hell is in the mix as well (which goes hand-in-hand with a lot of things). All things considered, it's just not in the DNA of Christianity to encourage or allow for outside schools of thought, that's all.
And believing something to be the truth is not closed minded, but part of being open minded is to be able to change your beliefs about what is true as you learn more and consider more things. When a belief is unshakable because you don't leave room for it to be changed, then that is closed mindedness.
Isn't the close-minded label highly subjective and wrought with bias? Who is to say what evidence ought to change a belief and to what extent? For instance, if you present to me your evidence that Christ was only a good man but not the Son of God and I consider the evidence, study it, and then come to the conclusion that I reject such evidence am I being close minded?
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Well, such religions also try to scare you out of thinking freely as well. In Christianity it seems that the way of thinking is that once you're a Christian, if you question your that or consider not following it then you feel a sort of guilt towards Jesus and you're in danger of getting on god's bad side and getting thrown into hell (or something similar) for all of eternity. So that there prevents them from considering other options or religions. Also, it brings with it a feeling that you don't want other people who practice other religions to go to hell, so you do your best to save them from that.
I'm not sure I would equate the Christian theology of salvation to "scaring you out of thinking freely". I never understood this idea that believing something to be truth = close mindedness.
I disagree with that as well. But in all fairness, I don't think sonata is completely off base either because a lot of so-called Christian churches do either explicitly or implicitly teach people not to question. And even in a lot that don't, that is still what some people believe.
I agree, though I don't think it's just a Christianity problem, it's a humanity problem. People blindly follow without questioning in all types of areas of life with religion and politics probably being the most apparent.
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Isn't the close-minded label highly subjective and wrought with bias? Who is to say what evidence ought to change a belief and to what extent? For instance, if you present to me your evidence that Christ was only a good man but not the Son of God and I consider the evidence, study it, and then come to the conclusion that I reject such evidence am I being close minded?
No, you're not.
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Isn't the close-minded label highly subjective and wrought with bias? Who is to say what evidence ought to change a belief and to what extent? For instance, if you present to me your evidence that Christ was only a good man but not the Son of God and I consider the evidence, study it, and then come to the conclusion that I reject such evidence am I being close minded?
I wasn't saying that to be open-minded you have to change your mind. Read my post again.
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Well, since I know you are a philosophy major, the basic idea is that truth is truth. a=a. You can't have two conflicting truths.
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Well, since I know you are a philosophy major, the basic idea is that truth is truth. a=a. You can't have two conflicting truths.
That's not the basic idea of philosophy.
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Well, since I know you are a philosophy major, the basic idea is that truth is truth. a=a. You can't have two conflicting truths.
That's not the basic idea of philosophy.
I'm talking about the basic idea of Christian one-wayism. And logically, a=a is the root of tons of philosophical beliefs.
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Well, since I know you are a philosophy major, the basic idea is that truth is truth. a=a. You can't have two conflicting truths.
That's not the basic idea of philosophy.
I'm talking about the basic idea of Christian one-wayism. And logically, a=a is the root of tons of philosophical beliefs.
Ah. But in philosophy one comes to the "truth", the "truth" doesn't come to them. That would be faith. Which is just fine.
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Well, since I know you are a philosophy major, the basic idea is that truth is truth. a=a. You can't have two conflicting truths.
That's not the basic idea of philosophy.
I'm talking about the basic idea of Christian one-wayism. And logically, a=a is the root of tons of philosophical beliefs.
Ah. But in philosophy one comes to the "truth", the "truth" doesn't come to them. That would be faith. Which is just fine.
Yeah.
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Yahweh is a jealous god and followers of Abrahamic religions are jealous of other truth claims.
What?
Just a reference to the ten commandments :P
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I tend not to talk religion with a lot of people, but I will say that I only see people on campus telling the world about being saved by Christ. The Jewish population on campus doesn't really say much, and the same goes for Islam.
So, I agree that Christians tend to be more adamant about their religion
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^I think that's a function of the (often misguided) evangelical movement *within* American Protestant Christianity. Not that other Christians haven't spread their beliefs both peacefully and forcibly throughout the centuries, but in my experience it's largely an evangelical Protestant thing to think you're doing some good by marching around on an educated college campus in a civilized country and acting strange and preaching about things that everybody already knows. I guess the "emotion" is supposed to attract new followers? I don't know.
-J
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I have been told by some christians that it is their duty to god to "spread the word" and to "show everyone the way".
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I have been told by some christians that it is their duty to god to "spread the word" and to "show everyone the way".
Same
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^I think that's a function of the (often misguided) evangelical movement *within* American Protestant Christianity. Not that other Christians haven't spread their beliefs both peacefully and forcibly throughout the centuries, but in my experience it's largely an evangelical Protestant thing to think you're doing some good by marching around on an educated college campus in a civilized country and acting strange and preaching about things that everybody already knows. I guess the "emotion" is supposed to attract new followers? I don't know.
-J
I agree with this. There is nothing wrong (in fact it's a biblical command) with spreading the gospel message but there are many Christians who believe they can debate someone into faith for which I whole heartedly disagree. I typically believe that in America "street corner" evangelism by over zealous evangelicals does more to make Christianity seem kooky than anything else.
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^I think that's a function of the (often misguided) evangelical movement *within* American Protestant Christianity. Not that other Christians haven't spread their beliefs both peacefully and forcibly throughout the centuries, but in my experience it's largely an evangelical Protestant thing to think you're doing some good by marching around on an educated college campus in a civilized country and acting strange and preaching about things that everybody already knows. I guess the "emotion" is supposed to attract new followers? I don't know.
-J
I agree with this. There is nothing wrong (in fact it's a biblical command) with spreading the gospel message but there are many Christians who believe they can debate someone into faith for which I whole heartedly disagree. I typically believe that in America "street corner" evangelism by over zealous evangelicals does more to make Christianity seem kooky than anything else.
In my experience, debating someone into a particular faith is an almost always useless endeavor. Trying to persuade someone over the course of a debate, no matter what it's about, is usually ineffective. Finding some common ground, and then moving forward from there, can be effective. Even then, it's during the reflection post-debate in which minds get changed. I think in the case of evangelicals, they are effective inasmuch as their audience has a significant portion which is self-selected as being sympathetic towards what they have previously known about the belief system and are looking for more information.
Regarding the OP's initial query, I don't think that Christians are any more adamant about their ideology than any other group. As with most groups, there is the intensely vocal minority who are the adamant and argumentative type. In America, we do have a rather sizable Christian population, including a sub-population that directly endorses evangelical proselytizing. I've had many one on one discussions with folks of various ideologies (not all of them religious) who were just as adamant about their beliefs. They simply had no necessary interest in trying to convert me. As I tend to seek out folks whose worldview conflicts with my own, most got sick of talking about their stance with me once it became clear that I was far more interested in trying to understand them and hone my own arguments than agree with them.
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Well, such religions also try to scare you out of thinking freely as well. In Christianity it seems that the way of thinking is that once you're a Christian, if you question your that or consider not following it then you feel a sort of guilt towards Jesus and you're in danger of getting on god's bad side and getting thrown into hell (or something similar) for all of eternity. So that there prevents them from considering other options or religions. Also, it brings with it a feeling that you don't want other people who practice other religions to go to hell, so you do your best to save them from that.
Christianity does not teach you that liberty is diminished through God but that liberty is fulfilled and made perfect. It does not shy away from explaining itself and provides plenty of proofs as to why it feels correct over other religions. I fear you are reading the wrong books here.
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Yeah, it's very off putting I agree but I disagree that is mainly Christians who are like this. I've found any fundamentalist tends to be like this.
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Christian free will idea: You can do whatever you want as long as you do it with God in mind and Jesus in your heart.
non-Christian free will idea: You can do whatever you want.
I've never understood why or how Christians defended the claim that Christian free will is "completed" or "absolute" or whatever. Seems to me that the first option is a lot more limiting than the second.
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Well maybe those type of christians simply don't believe in free will and are just fooling themselves. I am not trying to put them down I just can't really consider that "free will".
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Well religion comes with morals. So people are going to try to follow those morals so they can be good in the eyes of God. People have free will because they can choose to follow those morals or not. However, they should try to follow those moral beliefs to be a good Christian.
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I would normally agree with Quad's point that followers of Christianity tend to be more adamant about their religion being the "one," but I feel as if that's mostly due to living in a Christian dominated location for the vast majority of my life. People who hold these close-minded views yet are a member of a minority religion are much less likely to be vocal about it.
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I would normally agree with Quad's point that followers of Christianity tend to be more adamant about their religion being the "one," but I feel as if that's mostly due to living in a Christian dominated location for the vast majority of my life. People who hold these close-minded views yet are a member of a minority religion are much less likely to be vocal about it.
Certain religions are by their nature mutually exclusive based on the claims of their dogma. Christianity is one of them. It should come as no surprise that they think their beliefs are the truth, and it's not a whole lot different from the rest of us being certain that we're "right" about various things.
That said, some Christians feel the need to validate themselves with excessive proselytizing and the like. And I suspect that more often than not, it is not out of a genuine caring for the other person, but for more selfish reasons under a "guise" of righteousness. That's just an impression I get, of course.
So while I think Quad's observation is correct about some Christians (although I think he's dead wrong about Muslims and members of other religions being exempt from these attitudes), I think that if I was convinced I had found the absolute truth, I'd probably be "adamant" about it too. As full of holes as most strict relativist views of the world are, they end up being more pragmatic in a lot of cases thanks to our obvious inability to recognize objective truth, if in fact it exists.
-J