DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Sigz on February 22, 2011, 02:06:03 PM
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Carried over from the discussion here: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=7221.1680
GOGOGOGOGOGOGOO
As for me, I can think of several guitar/drum bands that do perfectly fine: Black Keys, White Stripes, Hella, and Giraffes? Giraffes! are the first ones to come to mind. Certainly saying a something isn't band without a bassist is pretty ridiculous.
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Two-person rock bands can work and I'm not saying bassists aren't necessary but bands have succeeded without them.
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Bass = backbone
When there is prominent bass, I think things sound so much better. SO much better.
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To that, I say:
(https://www.thefader.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/meg_white.jpg)
BRRRRRONSKIIIIII!!!!!!
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The only band like this I've heard is The White Stripes, and their sound isn't supposed to be "fleshed out", it's meant to be very stripped back and basic (which is actually why Jack White always used Meg White as his drummer even though she's average as hell, because all the drums are even meant to do in the White Stripes is accentuate what he's doing) so the lack of bass in their music is to me totally excusable.
Especially since, whenever I listen to their stuff, I don't miss it at all.
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I think the notion that a band needs any specific instrument to be called a band is just silly.
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I think the notion that a band needs any specific instrument to be called a band is just silly.
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To this thread I offer El Ten Eleven
(https://www.slapthebass.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/El+Ten+Eleven+El_Ten_ElevenBeachland_Tavern2.jpg)
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Basses are fairly essential, but not entirely necessary. Don't get me wrong, I think they add a key component to the sound of a band, but some bands get by without one, and are arguably better off without the bass. Not many bands can pull it off, but white stripes are a good example, and there's an awesome localish band called "We Are The City" that makes fantastic music and fills out wonderfully with just drums, keys, guitars, and vox. That's one of very few bands out there that I think is better off without a bassist.
If I had to choose between having a bassist and having a drummer (which is hopefully a choice I'd never have to make) I'll take the drummer any day.
I also agree that to say something isn't a band because it doesn't have a specific instrument is a foolish claim.
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I think the notion that a band needs any specific instrument to be called a band is just silly.
This, but I couldn't imagine playing the music I've written without a bassist.
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I personally like a full band that adds and subtract instruments for mood then a 2 man(girls too) band.
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I think the notion that a band needs any specific instrument to be called a band is just silly.
I agree and I'm a bass player. However, unless its like some kind of folk thing with two guitars, I'd rather hear a guitar/bass/drum setup over guitar/drums any day.
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I'd rather hear Bass/drums over guitar/drums. And I'm not talking drum & bass.
I think the notion that a band needs any specific instrument to be called a band is just silly.
No one ever said that.
Straw man.
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I'd rather hear Bass/drums over guitar/drums. And I'm not talking drum & bass.
I think the notion that a band needs any specific instrument to be called a band is just silly.
No one ever said that.
Straw man.
If you read the thread in which the discussion started, at least 2 people said exactly that.
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I think you're referring to my post, as my post in that thread was the only one remotely close to such an argument. And if it were my argument, antigoon is putting words in my mouth - because I certainly didn't equate no bass with no band.
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I think the notion that a band needs any specific instrument to be called a band is just silly.
That.
And a band simply requires more than one person (if it's just one, I'd call it an artist).
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So, one-man bands don't exist?
I guess Nine Inch Nails is not a band.
I agree in a way though, one can't perform all the instruments at the same time
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I think the notion that a band needs any specific instrument to be called a band is just silly.
Yeah, pretty much this.
PLM said that the lack of a bottom-end sound turns him off The White Stripes. Which is a just a statement to make. If you feel like the lack of a particular sound is a reason to think less of a band, then who's to argue with you.
But to turn "This band would sound better with X" into "Bands need X" is a wildly ignorant thing to say.
I know PLM is a bassist and it matters to him, but he's also a musician, and it's disappointing to see him make such a narrow-minded statement...
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So. You're denying that White Stripes would sound better with a bass?
Phail.
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So, one-man bands don't exist?
I guess Nine Inch Nails is not a band.
Indeed it is not, I'd call it a project.
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The Doors were amazing, and they did not have a regular bass player. Ray Manzarek covered the bottom end with his keyboards.
Emerson Lake & Palmer have many tunes in which Greg Lake takes a guitar solo, and when they play it live, Emerson covers the bottom end with keyboards.
For that matter, last time we rehearsed, our bass player was half an hour late, so I covered the bottom end on keys (anyone see a pattern?) and our WL turned around a started looking for our bassist, assuming he'd slipped in the back way or something. Nope, just me.
There's no question that a good bass player adds a lot to the sound of a band, but it is not required. But I can't think of any rock band that doesn't have something in the lower end. It just seems like you'd need it. I've never listened to White Stripes, so I didn't even know that they don't have a bassist. Probably too busy checking out the girl with the big breasts.
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Yes. Lower end is necessary.
Can we all at least agree on that?
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I think you're referring to my post, as my post in that thread was the only one remotely close to such an argument. And if it were my argument, antigoon is putting words in my mouth - because I certainly didn't equate no bass with no band.
Actually, It was Playslikemyung who stated that more explicitly.
Anyways, here's my thoughts.
In rock bands, bassists are less essential than drummers, and sometimes less essential than guitarists. Guitarists are also less essential than drummers, and sometimes less essential than bassists. Bands can be complete without a bassist, as they can be complete without any particular instrument, including guitars or drums. It's hard to rock without drums though.
Also, yes, the vast majority of bands are better with and require a bassist. Some bands do not require bass though, nor would their sound be made more complete with a bassist.
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Allow me to offer up the Dresden Dolls as a candidate for consideration. Piano and drums only. Pretty solid rock.
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I actually think bass is the most essential instrument. To me any band without bass just feels like it's missing something. I guess I can't say much for drums though since Harmonium is the only drumless band I know, but they sound perfectly fine without.
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To that, I say:
(https://www.thefader.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/meg_white.jpg)
BRRRRRONSKIIIIII!!!!!!
DAMN! I never noticed Meg White had such big... tom-toms. (loldrumpun)
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I've never considered Meg White attractive. That image hasn't convinced me otherwise. And that look on her face is the total attention is all i seek look.
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Yeah, I'm terms of audio I'd go forward and say that the lower end is much more important than the high end.
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Every band ever has to have bass. That is the definition of a band. Bass = band.
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Every band ever has to have bass. That is the definition of a band. Bass = band.
Lol. :facepalm:
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John Myung = Dream Theater?
:omg:
Colin Edwin = Porcupine Tree?
:omg:
:D
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Paul Chambers = John Coltrane Quartet
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I've having a hard time calling the bass a without a doubt must mainly due to the fact that a ton of bands have a bass solely to play the root notes, which is one of the most offensive wastes of an instrument.
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According to James....
A marching band is not a band.
A wind band is not a band.
etc....
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Lol you know I was joking, right?
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If you have a bass, you don't need vocals, guitars, or keys. Just bass solos. Except you don't call them solos because there's no one else in the band anyway.
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Every band ever has to have bass. That is the definition of a band. Bass = band.
I legitimately lol'd at this.
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I've never considered Meg White attractive. That image hasn't convinced me otherwise. And that look on her face is the total attention is all i seek look.
White is, by her own admission, "very shy" and gives few interviews. Because of this, when the band was interviewed, Jack White did most of the talking.[citation needed] She guards her privacy in a manner that she identifies with Bob Dylan, whom she admires.
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According to James....
A marching band is not a band.
A wind band is not a band.
etc....
Aside from the fact James was joking, you know that there are other low end instruments... right?
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According to James....
A marching band is not a band.
A wind band is not a band.
etc....
Aside from the fact James was joking, you know that there are other low end instruments... right?
*cough*GRAYCEON*cough*
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I've never considered Meg White attractive. That image hasn't convinced me otherwise. And that look on her face is the total attention is all i seek look.
That's funny. I don't recall noticing a face in that picture.
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So. You're denying that White Stripes would sound better with a bass?
Phail.
I don't think I ever said this.
But, yes, I would think The White Stripes would sound better with a bass. Does that mean that they are not a band, or that their music is useless because of the lack of bass?
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The White Stripes incorporate enough bottom end as it is. Jack does usually play a low part on his guitar for many songs.
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The White Stripes incorporate enough bottom end as it is. Jack does usually play a low part on his guitar for many songs.
Yes, now if they could only write a good song..........
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They've written plenty.
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They've written plenty.
I'll take the Raconteurs a thousand times over TWS. Just my opinion.
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I've having a hard time calling the bass a without a doubt must mainly due to the fact that a ton of bands have a bass solely to play the root notes, which is one of the most offensive wastes of an instrument.
This. There are plenty of rock/metal bands out there where you really can't hear the bass, and you don't really care, because they're either copying exactly what the guitarist does or they're just playing root notes. Its better if you can hear the bass along with the other instruments, but that's getting less and less possible thanks to the louder and louder production today and the fact that no one cares about us poor bass players except for those old guys with gold instruments that they blow into or something.
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Somehow I'd like to make a joke that those base players you guys are talking about are failed guitarists who picked up the bass and play with a pick. There are a lot of bass players like that in music today. Bass players using there fingers seem to be a thing of the past.
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Somehow I'd like to make a joke that those baseplayer you guys are talking about are failed guitarists who picked up the bass and play with a pick. There are a lot of bass players like that in music today. Bass players using there fingers seem to be a thing of the past.
I use my fingers, using a pick would not work for me
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I only use a pick for about two songs that I practice: "Resistance" by Muse (just for the 16th note parts) and "Animate" by Rush (Geddy does a lot of chords in the live version, and they sound really cool, so the pick makes it easier. Plus, lots of fast 16ths in the studio version). Other than those, I never use a pick.
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I don't get the deal with people getting their panties all in a bunch when they see bassists playing with picks. Different sound.
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Hmm. A band, to me, is just a group of people doing music. A band without a bass sound can sound weird at time but it is a valid band.
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I don't get the deal with people getting their panties all in a bunch when they see bassists playing with picks. Different sound.
Yeah, its a different sound, and sometimes a pick is necessary, but with a bass you get a fuller sound with your fingers, and I find its easier to do all sorts of quick little flourishes with your fingers rather than a pick on a bass (mostly because the strings are so far apart compared to a guitar). Plus you look cooler when you use your fingers.
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I don't get the deal with people getting their panties all in a bunch when they see bassists playing with picks. Different sound.
The difference it worlds apart anti. The are only a handfull of pick bass players that are better than average. When it comes to Bass, fingers are the way to go. A pick is a tool for a certain style or an effect. Theres an organic sound to a bass player who uses fingers. But I've side tracked us on the OP. Sorry. This is about no fingers or picks! :lol
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King you've been a member long enough to know that thread derailment is imminent.
*cue UMH*
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I only use a pick for about two songs that I practice: "Resistance" by Muse (just for the 16th note parts) and "Animate" by Rush (Geddy does a lot of chords in the live version, and they sound really cool, so the pick makes it easier. Plus, lots of fast 16ths in the studio version). Other than those, I never use a pick.
If you can't do the sixteenths then you should be a better bass player :P
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So. You're denying that White Stripes would sound better with a bass?
Phail.
That's just your opinion....
And its wrong. Have you ever seen a White Stripes show? There's no way they could do what they do live if they had another member to worry about.
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I prefer bands with bassist.
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I only use a pick for about two songs that I practice: "Resistance" by Muse (just for the 16th note parts) and "Animate" by Rush (Geddy does a lot of chords in the live version, and they sound really cool, so the pick makes it easier. Plus, lots of fast 16ths in the studio version). Other than those, I never use a pick.
If you can't do the sixteenths then you should be a better bass player :P
When its a very long line of sixteenths like that it kinda wears on your fingers (Resistance is all 16ths during the verses). Cut me some slack, I've been at this for a year and a half compared to how many years on your end? So sue me if I use a pick for two songs.
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I should post a few songs in the musicians section where I play guitar and my bro plays bass from the early 90's for shits and giggles.
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I only use a pick for about two songs that I practice: "Resistance" by Muse (just for the 16th note parts) and "Animate" by Rush (Geddy does a lot of chords in the live version, and they sound really cool, so the pick makes it easier. Plus, lots of fast 16ths in the studio version). Other than those, I never use a pick.
If you can't do the sixteenths then you should be a better bass player :P
When its a very long line of sixteenths like that it kinda wears on your fingers (Resistance is all 16ths during the verses). Cut me some slack, I've been at this for a year and a half compared to how many years on your end? So sue me if I use a pick for two songs.
Speaking of 16th notes, a good endurance piece is "Poundcake" by Van Halen. You'll end up with a right forearm the size of Popeye. :lol
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Speaking of 16th notes, a good endurance piece is "Poundcake" by Van Halen. You'll end up with a right forearm the size of Popeye. :lol
That and What Is Hip by Tower Of Power.
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What is Hip is so damn groovy! Nice to see another ToP fan on here. :D
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What is Hip is so damn groovy! Nice to see another ToP fan on here. :D
Love seeing them live Rich. I have a great story about taking my brother who is a TOP freak to see them when he was 18 and we got the song list at the end of the show. Nothing beats seeing a band like this 3 feet away.
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TOP is one of the greatest bands evar. I actually played a couple of TOP songs (on bari) not too long ago, live.
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What is Hip is so damn groovy! Nice to see another ToP fan on here. :D
Love seeing them live Rich. I have a great story about taking my brother who is a TOP freak to see them when he was 18 and we got the song list at the end of the show. Nothing beats seeing a band like this 3 feet away.
I can imagine. I mean, I like their studio albums, but I don't find any of them that special. Whereas Soul Vaccination is completely incredible, easily my favourite live album of all time (the only one I rate 5 stars even).
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What is Hip is so damn groovy! Nice to see another ToP fan on here. :D
Love seeing them live Rich. I have a great story about taking my brother who is a TOP freak to see them when he was 18 and we got the song list at the end of the show. Nothing beats seeing a band like this 3 feet away.
I can imagine. I mean, I like their studio albums, but I don't find any of them that special. Whereas Soul Vaccination is completely incredible, easily my favourite live album of all time (the only one I rate 5 stars even).
My 5 star CD is T.O.P. Star to finish a home run.
https://listen.grooveshark.com/#/search?q=tower%20of%20power%20T.O.P.
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I've having a hard time calling the bass a without a doubt must mainly due to the fact that a ton of bands have a bass solely to play the root notes, which is one of the most offensive wastes of an instrument.
This.
I don't think any instrument is totally essential, even in the context of a rock band. It's often interesting to see what machinations musicians get up to in order to cover the lack of one of the traditional instruments in their chosen style, or how it changes the music if they instead adapt to that missing piece. Me, though, I'm a sucker for moving bass parts that do something more interesting than just playing the damn root, and I tend not to like bands that don't have that element.
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What is Hip is so damn groovy! Nice to see another ToP fan on here. :D
Love seeing them live Rich. I have a great story about taking my brother who is a TOP freak to see them when he was 18 and we got the song list at the end of the show. Nothing beats seeing a band like this 3 feet away.
I can imagine. I mean, I like their studio albums, but I don't find any of them that special. Whereas Soul Vaccination is completely incredible, easily my favourite live album of all time (the only one I rate 5 stars even).
My 5 star CD is T.O.P. Star to finish a home run.
https://listen.grooveshark.com/#/search?q=tower%20of%20power%20T.O.P.
Yeah TOP is my favourite of their studio albums, but it still doesn't have the same energy that SV has. :hat
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There are no "must-have" instruments to have a band. A band only requires that there be at least two members. That is all.
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(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_k21ZGJPxLec/TQLA9uF8jYI/AAAAAAAAEnw/eODOivyWUKw/s1600/meg-white-lead.jpg)
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There are no "must-have" instruments to have a band. A band only requires that there be at least two members. That is all.
Thisthisthisthis
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Okay, so really I was speaking about rock bands. But, as a counter question, would you guys say that they require a GUITAR to be a band?
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No. Guitar is not necessary
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Okay, so really I was speaking about rock bands. But, as a counter question, would you guys say that they require a GUITAR to be a band?
Not at all.
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ELP, Refugee, and U.K. (second and third albums) are all keyboard-based prog rock, and they definitely rock. Guitar does show up in ELP, but Lake mostly plays bass with that band.
I agree with whoever said that drums are required to rock, but pretty much anything else goes. One of the cooler bar bands I've seen was a two-man band, with one guy on drums and vocals, the other on keyboards and vocals. All areas were covered, and they even had some vocal harmonies.
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Okay, so really I was speaking about rock bands. But, as a counter question, would you guys say that they require a GUITAR to be a band?
Nope, plenty of bands don't have guitar.
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Certainly not, Kayo Dot's newest has no guitar, and it definitely has parts that are rock.
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Okay, so really I was speaking about rock bands. But, as a counter question, would you guys say that they require a GUITAR to be a band?
Nope. Not even in a rock band. Look at the Crash Kings.
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Okay, so really I was speaking about rock bands. But, as a counter question, would you guys say that they require a GUITAR to be a band?
Nope. Not even in a rock band. Look at the Crash Kings.
Ben Folds 5 can rock too.
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My piano teacher back when I was younger used to play with Ben Folds all the time, but their band broke up. Something about their bassist sucking. So we learned plenty of Ben Folds songs in my lessons. So that's a cool story bro.
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My piano teacher back when I was younger used to play with Ben Folds all the time, but their band broke up. Something about their bassist sucking. So we learned plenty of Ben Folds songs in my lessons. So that's a cool story bro.
Now there's a pick bass player I like. Not that his playing is hard but he doesn't play the root notes. Mabye he has the freedom because it's just a three piece band. Have you ever seen the DVD from PBS show, In Session? It's on youtube. Damn good stuff.
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I assume you're talking about the bass player from Ben Folds Five? No, I haven't seen that DVD/PBS thing. I have a feeling the guy they played with isn't the same guy who ended up in BFF :lol
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I assume you're talking about the bass player from Ben Folds Five? No, I haven't seen that DVD/PBS thing. I have a feeling the guy they played with isn't the same guy who ended up in BFF :lol
THe bass player in BBF was the same guy til they broke up. Here's a link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxaYgIhjsFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42qYZ8g4s6Y&feature=related
I'm not saying he's mindblowing but I like how he fits with the stylee of music.
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Er...I was talking about a band before BFF.
And yeah, his style definitely fits, but not mindblowing. Letting the bass shine through in simple ways can be a great way to give the song an extra boost.
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I don't think The Antlers have a bassist, and they still achieve one hell of a full sound, even live
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Ugh. White Stripes. ( AKA : One Man & His Dog )
Awful Drumming. Awful Guitar playing. Awful Singing.
:tdwn
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Since my favourite band of all time doesn't have a bassist, my answer is somewhat redundant.
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Two members playing instruments.
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^ That.
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Ugh. White Stripes. ( AKA : One Man & His Dog )
Awful Drumming. Awful Guitar playing. Awful Singing.
:tdwn
Meh. I like the energy and vibe. Two people end up putting on a more entertaining and spontaneous show than DT could ever dream of doing.
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To that, I say:
(https://www.thefader.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/meg_white.jpg)
BRRRRRONSKIIIIII!!!!!!
DAMN! I never noticed Meg White had such big... tom-toms. (loldrumpun)
wtf have you noticed then? :lol
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Nothing, because I don't pay attention to her or The White Stripes.
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Juan two Moe Turbo-t
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Okay, so really I was speaking about rock bands. But, as a counter question, would you guys say that they require a GUITAR to be a band?
Definitely not. Look at Emerson Lake and Palmer and Van der Graaf Generator.
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That 1 guy is just him and his magic pipe.
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Here are my preferences:
- A rock band must have a bassist.
- A rock band should have two guitar players, if it doesn't have a keyboardist.
Off topic:
- One of the band members should be able to perform back vocals, a band with two lead singers is distracting and unlikable to me.
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Not a fan of rules when it comes to music, especially something like band composition.
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Rush, Led Zeppelin, The Who, and countless others would like to have a word with DTVT about that two guitarists thing.
I mean, if it rocks, and there's two or more people, I'd call that a rock band.
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wtf have you noticed then? :lol
Her horrific "drumming"
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Here are my preferences:
- A rock band must have a bassist.
- A rock band should have two guitar players, if it doesn't have a keyboardist.
Off topic:
- One of the band members should be able to perform back vocals, a band with two lead singers is distracting and unlikable to me.
Agree with the first point, but iffy on the second. Rush does the 3 piece thing VERY well. Led Zeppelin only had one guitarist as well. But keyboards do add a fantastic dynamic to a band, so I personally like keyboards (hence my attraction to synth-era Rush :D)
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(https://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/e/e0/1_Moe_Szyslak.png) (https://www.backyardcitypools.com/Images/BWP/Aquabot-Turbo-T.jpg)
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Here are my preferences:
- A rock band must have a bassist.
- A rock band should have two guitar players, if it doesn't have a keyboardist.
Off topic:
- One of the band members should be able to perform back vocals, a band with two lead singers is distracting and unlikable to me.
lol
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Arabrot
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Here are my preferences:
- A rock band must have a bassist.
- A rock band should have two guitar players, if it doesn't have a keyboardist.
Off topic:
- One of the band members should be able to perform back vocals, a band with two lead singers is distracting and unlikable to me.
Not a fan of rules when it comes to music, especially something like band composition.
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Fuck the rules
Rules are there to be broken
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Absolutely. Some of the coolest bands out there are the ones who "break the rules."
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Anyone who thinks that music has to have rules has no understanding of music.
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(https://www.morethings.com/music/white_stripes/photos/meg_pigtails.jpg)
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Weird. She almost looks 'shopped into that picture or something.
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Bitches I said preferences, not rules.
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But you combined your term "preference" with the statement "rock bands must have a bassist." That sounds more like a rule to me. A rule that was successfully broken by (hereigoagain) the Doors (and plenty others I'm sure). :P
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You're right, it did sound like a rule, my bad :)