DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site

General => Musicians => Topic started by: Ħ on February 10, 2011, 02:27:30 AM

Title: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Ħ on February 10, 2011, 02:27:30 AM
How do I do this?  I have literally no idea where to start or what to do.  :lol
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Zantera on February 10, 2011, 02:41:19 AM
I've been meaning to start playing guitar myself, I actually have a guitar, even though it is kinda bad.
But I spent like 2 weeks trying to learn how to play Trains (I think it was), with like 0 knowledge about how to play at all, with no results I gave up quite easily.  :lol
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: wolfking on February 10, 2011, 03:27:33 AM
Go and get some lessons from a guitar teacher, that's your best bet.  I had lessons and never regretted it.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on February 10, 2011, 04:54:49 AM
Go and get some lessons from a guitar teacher, that's your best bet.  I had lessons and never regretted it.
Lessons is your best bet. But don't rely only on your teacher - you have to practice. A teacher can guide you in the right direction.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Ħ on February 10, 2011, 04:57:35 AM
Regarding private lessons:

1) What price should I be looking for?
2) How long and how frequent should I do lessons?
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Lynxo on February 10, 2011, 05:02:17 AM
YouTube is your friend! And eventually, perhaps my site? ;) https://www.guitarechoes.com (https://www.guitarechoes.com)
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Perpetual Change on February 10, 2011, 05:06:42 AM
Heh, yeah, it can be tough to self-teach.

I was taught for awhile, but recently have started trying to teach myself how to really play acoustically and have it sound good as a stand alone instrument. I've been working with some Steve Howe songs like Mood for a Day and I'm getting destroyed by them.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Ħ on February 10, 2011, 05:09:48 AM
Is using youtube tutors still considered self-teaching?

Speaking of video teachers, how is JP's Rock Discipline?
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: dethklok09 on February 10, 2011, 05:11:37 AM
Get a teacher and learn proper technique.

I am self taught and never learned proper technique (at the start) and now I am regretting it.

Also after a while get in a band or atleast surround yourself with other musicians. You will learn alot.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: dethklok09 on February 10, 2011, 05:13:20 AM
Speaking of video teachers, how is JP's Rock Discipline?
That is for more advanced players I would not suggest getting it yet. I have been playing for three years and still mess up on some parts.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Ħ on February 10, 2011, 05:17:55 AM
Thanks!

Oh wow I've got a ton of questions in my mind...

1) If I want to be as good as JP, how long should I practice daily?
2) Should I focus on learning songs or exercise/techniques first?  How do I know when I am ready to move on to learning another technique?
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on February 10, 2011, 05:20:05 AM
Thanks!

Oh wow I've got a ton of questions in my mind...

1) If I want to be as good as JP, how long should I practice daily?
2) Should I focus on learning songs or exercise/techniques first?  How do I know when I am ready to move on to learning another technique?
JP practiced 6 hrs a day in highschool. And probably these days he practices many hours a day as well.

The key is to enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: dethklok09 on February 10, 2011, 05:26:20 AM
As for how long you practice it truly does not mean shit. I have found that practicing for up to 6 hours a day you only learn a few new things. But this is Probably because many will do this in front of their computer or tv. I'm not dissing jp but if he practiced six hours a day everyday I am sure he spent some of that time practicing just lolligagging. Anyway find A secluded spot away from the tv or computer (unless your taking vid lessons or looking at tabs.)

Anyway as for songs vs. technique. Split up the practice sessions. Make one based on songs (throw in some technique exercises also) and one based on
technique (throw in some songs also.).

Regarding how long you should practice to be as good as jp. Do this but learn something completely new everyday. (you will need a wide taste in music for this.) Regarding either new genres (classical, jazz) or something in music theory. If you follow this plan (not even super strictly) you will be good.

And one more thing, do not focus all your energy on one technique. When I was getting into guitar my favorite band was dragonforce and I heard herman sweep pick and I thought I had to do this. So now my alternate picking suffers. (what sucks is recently I focused on alternate picking to get it back up and now my sweeping ability has declined)
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Ħ on February 10, 2011, 05:29:36 AM
Is there...like...a master list of techniques somewhere, so I don't miss anything?  :lol
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: dethklok09 on February 10, 2011, 05:33:23 AM
Is there...like...a master list of techniques somewhere, so I don't miss anything?  :lol
Just a list of techniques off the top of my head: vibrato, legato, alternate picking, sweep picking, tapping, sweep tapping, finger picking, flamenco style, economy picking, pinch harmonics, volume swells, and a few others I cant think of.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on February 10, 2011, 05:33:44 AM
Lol. Hermans sweeps are not something one should exactly try to model. JP sweeps about 100000x better is nowhere near the best sweeper.

@master list:
No. You could make up your own techniques. Every guitarist is different. There are flamenco technique that are just insane, and I bet no one of the "great" metal guitarists can emulate them. Then there's the jazz thumb technique of Wes Montgomery, he played every note with his thumb - even the "shreddy" stuff. Gypsy jazz has a special shred pick technique unlike rock/metal shredding.

It all depends on what you wanna learn.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: dethklok09 on February 10, 2011, 05:37:42 AM
Lol. Hermans sweeps are not something one should exactly try to model. JP sweeps about 100000x better is nowhere near the best sweeper.

@master list:
No. You could make up your own techniques. Every guitarist is different. There are flamenco technique that are just insane, and I bet no one of the "great" metal guitarists can emulate them. Then there's the jazz thumb technique of Wes Montgomery, he played every note with his thumb - even the "shreddy" stuff. Gypsy jazz has a special shred pick technique unlike rock/metal shredding.

It all depends on what you wanna learn.
Well as for hermans sweeps that was the first time I ever heard sweep picking so I was blown away. (It was a studio version to.) And yes you can make your own techniques (hell look at marty friedman.) as for the list I was just thinking of the most well known and widely used techniques. As for the "great" metal guitarists sure they cant but I have tried very hard, and strongly believe to be as diverse as possible.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Perpetual Change on February 10, 2011, 05:38:56 AM
I've been playing ten years and still don't know sweeps :( In fact, I still can't really solo... or shred at least. I just never "got" how to do it.

Anyway, learn chords first!
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: EstyMaJ on February 10, 2011, 05:47:57 AM
First learn how to make chords by a teacher or by video or even books , then find out by playing a few simple chords like the beginning of living after midnight by JP and see if you have natural rhythm and you are enjoying this .(Some cable company's have on demand begginers lessons )
Im not trying to discourage you at all it is just some people do not have any rhythm/ and or coordination at all with no fault of there own , after you find that you do have rhythm then go for da lessons dude
Hang around with other guitar players/bands watch and ask questions good luck and enjoy

Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: antigoon on February 10, 2011, 07:19:01 AM
I wouldn't even think about playing like Petrucci at this point. I know when I was a beginner, anyway, I wasted an inordinate amount of time trying to learn DT songs that were so far out of my skill level it wasn't even worth it.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: lordxizor on February 10, 2011, 07:44:20 AM
I bought a cheap acoustic guitar a few months ago and have been slowly teaching myself. Basically I'm just learning chords and playing basic songs to practice. I'm making slow progress mostly because I don't practice all that much. I can play fun little songs for my son like Old MacDonald and the ABCs. That's basically all I'm looking to be able to do.

If you're looking to be the next JP, here's what I'd do. Start learning basic chords on your own and learn some simple songs (you can find this info free online for the most part). If after a few months you're progressing and are still interested, start taking lessons.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 10, 2011, 08:20:27 AM
I'd imagine getting a guitar teacher would be a good idea.  I don't know, I never had one.  I will say this, check them out and get info on any of them.  If they're planning to teach you the Blue Danube Waltz out of the "New Classic Guitar Instructional Book", then you probably want to pass on them.  Also, it's very likely you be influenced more towards how the specific instructor plays, i.e. how he holds his pick, how he frets the neck, etc. so be aware of that.  When I've tried to show things to Mrs. Cozmo's son on guitar, I have to completely deconstruct the way I play, bit by bit, to get myself back in the mindframe of someone who doesn't know what to do.  It's tough.

Here is a link to the Steve Vai 30 hour workout:

https://www.freewebs.com/edeninruins/stevevai30hourpathtovirtuosoenlightenment.pdf

With that I will point out:  I'm not linking this to say "do this and you'll be great!"  It's entirely too much for a beginner to even digest.  In time, this is a great resource for inspiration on how to get ahead when practicing.  In particular though, I point out page 4.  The exercises on just that page (figures 1-8) are excellent exercises for just getting your fingers moving and teaching finger independence and coordinating picking with fretting.  Start out nice and slow with it and as you gain strength in your fingers and a little confidence, you can slowly start to speed it up.  Using a metronome helps.

Also, very importantly, I always point out - after a while of learning, your fretting fingers are going to hurt like a bitch.  Your fingertips will burn.  Take a few days off to let them rest, if need be, then get back to it.  Your fingers will eventually become used to it and won't hurt anymore.  It can be discouraging, but don't let it be, the hurting fingertips doesn't last.

I always recommend trying to learn on an electric.  The necks are slightly longer than an on an acoustic and they use lighter strings than an acoustic, normally.  This may make things a bit easier on your hands when first learning, though some acoustics ARE pretty nice feeling in your hands.  Go to the local guitar store and check out some models.  What feels good in your hands?  What feels good hanging off your shoulders, or on your leg while sitting?  Stylized designs like a Flying V, or a Z-body, or possible even a Gibson SG might not be suitable choices for a beginner, due to their odd body shapes.

Good luck!
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on February 10, 2011, 08:24:18 AM
You should be deciding what you're playing, not your teacher. Some teachers work this way... they are the best.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 10, 2011, 08:25:17 AM
Exactly.  That was what I meant to say, but you said it so much better.  :lol

Along with that, I think making sure your teacher is compatible age-wise will help with that, i.e. you probably would prefer a teacher that's going to be more likely to teach you Enter Sandman than Brown Eyed Girl.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: ClairvoyantCat on February 10, 2011, 08:29:23 AM
I think everyone works differently.  Personally, the most uninspired I ever felt to play guitar was when I was under the direction of a strict teacher, and I did best just messing around for hours at home until I find out what sounds right.  I'm not huge on technique, but probably some other people are.  Find out which approach you like and stay with it. 
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on February 10, 2011, 09:14:32 AM
Buy GuitarPro.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on February 10, 2011, 09:15:25 AM
Buy GuitarPro.
Guitarpro pwns.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 10, 2011, 09:16:32 AM
Have you guys ever used TuxGuitar?  If not, it supports GuitarPro AND Power Tab files.  For free.  I have a copy on hand for reading GP files, but I still try to stick with PT files whenever possible.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Elsydeon on February 10, 2011, 09:17:48 AM
Have you guys ever used TuxGuitar?  If not, it supports GuitarPro AND Power Tab files.  For free.  I have a copy on hand for reading GP files, but I still try to stick with PT files whenever possible.
I was just going to post the same exact thing. TuxGuitar is open source too!
TG opens up PT and GP files, great program if you don't want to spend the money for GP
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on February 10, 2011, 09:19:37 AM
Can you write music with tux?
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 10, 2011, 09:21:49 AM
Yep.  Edit and play:

https://tuxguitar.herac.com.ar/
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: mizzl on February 10, 2011, 10:43:08 AM
My approach: Get your iPod(or other music device) and search for the simplest song on guitar that you'd like to play, then play it.
If you don't know how to do a certain thing, Google is your friend. I did this, and it worked  :biggrin:
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Quadrochosis on February 10, 2011, 10:51:57 AM
All I'll say is that you shouldn't be trying to be as good as JP. It's all about you and your style of playing, not his.

It's good to have influences but I don't think it's very good to have idols.

Unless, of course, it's Steven Wilson. Then you must idolize him.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: pain of occupation on February 10, 2011, 11:37:02 AM
There are flamenco technique that are just insane, and I bet no one of the "great" metal guitarists can emulate them.

not even broderick!?
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on February 10, 2011, 11:45:21 AM
Have you guys ever used TuxGuitar?  If not, it supports GuitarPro AND Power Tab files.  For free.  I have a copy on hand for reading GP files, but I still try to stick with PT files whenever possible.

If you ever need a blowjob just PM me.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 10, 2011, 11:48:07 AM
:lol  Hahaha.

*starts typing up PM*
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: bosk1 on February 10, 2011, 12:03:24 PM
Cozmo, he doesn't need a metronome.  He can just come to my garage and I'll get in some drum practice while he's getting in his guitar practice.  :)
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 10, 2011, 12:05:45 PM
Killer deal.  Even better idea.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on February 10, 2011, 01:52:18 PM
There are flamenco technique that are just insane, and I bet no one of the "great" metal guitarists can emulate them.

not even broderick!?
True. He's the only one that could possibly do it.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: SPNKr on February 10, 2011, 03:42:08 PM
I'd maybe get the thinnest electric guitar string gauge available. 009-038 I think there is. 042s used to kill my fingers in the first year to year and a half. But then you get used to it. Now, one of my guitars has 010-052 thickness.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Ħ on February 14, 2011, 01:35:25 AM
Ok I have a question or two.  It's something I don't really get that I see popping up in a lot of songs.

I was trying to learn some Green Day, because, well, it's Green Day and I think I can handle it.  Looking at the two measures of Holiday:

E|----------------------------------|---------------------------|  
B|-9-9-9--6-6-6--13-13-13--8-8-8-8--|-9-9-9--6-6-6--13-13-13-  
G|-x-x-x--x-x-x---x--x--x--8-8-8-8--|-x-x-x--x-x-x---x--x--x--8-|
D|-x-x-x--x-x-x---x--x--x--x-x-x-x--|-x-x-x--x-x-x---x--x--x--x-|  
A|-8-8-8--4-4-4--11-11-11--6-6-6-6--|-8-8-8--4-4-4--11-11-11-
E|----------------------------------|---------------------------|    

So, uh...what do the x's mean?

And supposing there aren't any x's there...how am I supposed to play two notes at the same time without hitting the strings in between?  I understand that you can do fingerpicking for acousitc stuff, but if I neet to have a pick in my hand, how I am supposed to do that?

Cozmo, he doesn't need a metronome.  He can just come to my garage and I'll get in some drum practice while he's getting in his guitar practice.  :)
I might take you up on that...
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 14, 2011, 07:06:55 AM
They're muted notes.  In an instance like that, your index finger will be fretting the note on the A string.  Just lay it back a hair, so that it lays across the D and G strings, but doesn't fret them.  This should mute them enough that you can hit all four string and only sound the couple that you need.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on February 14, 2011, 08:37:09 AM
It's difficult at first, but it'll come naturally.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 14, 2011, 08:43:15 AM
Yep.  Takes a little getting used to knowing how to angle your fingers right, to get enough pressure to mute them, but not fret them.  Like he said, it'll come to you.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: antigoon on February 14, 2011, 09:52:23 AM
That shit took me forever to figure out :lol
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Ħ on February 14, 2011, 04:29:20 PM
Ok.  Now lets say that the x's aren't there, and it wants me to play two strings simultaneously.  Am I still supposed to just mute the notes in between, or is that a completely different technique altogether?  Assuming I have a pick in my hand, how do I do ths?
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: bosk1 on February 14, 2011, 04:55:05 PM
Depends on the tab.  There are three possibilities I can think of:  (1) the tab is written incorrect, and whoever wrote it forgot the x's.  (2) the tab is written correctly, and you are supposed to finger pick or use a similar technique.  (3) you are reading the tab wrong.  I'm going to assume we aren't talking about #3.  If #1, that has been explained above.  If #2, there are techniques where you can still have a pick in your hand and finger pick.  For example, rather than strumming or picking with a closed right hand as you normally would, your hand is open and you are holding the plectrum with only your thumb and index finger and using that to strike the lower strings while using your other fingers to strike the upper strings. If that's what it is asking you to do, I would probably either learn a different song with more basic skills first or play it as if it were a full chord.  Cozmo or others may disagree, but personally, I think you should probably learn to strum more basic chords and play scales consisting of one-note-at-a-time picking before moving on to more difficult techniques.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: cthrubuoy on February 15, 2011, 05:51:23 AM
That shit took me forever to figure out :lol

This!
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: cthrubuoy on February 15, 2011, 05:55:32 AM
Ok.  Now lets say that the x's aren't there, and it wants me to play two strings simultaneously.  Am I still supposed to just mute the notes in between, or is that a completely different technique altogether?  Assuming I have a pick in my hand, how do I do ths?

https://theguitarresource.com/technique/hybrid-picking-guitar/

But I SERIOUSLY doubt that Green day use this technique
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 15, 2011, 06:25:20 AM
Definitely of all the possibilities mentioned, given that this is Green Day and I've played this song before, it's definitely fretting the two notes and muting the two between, to give the whole phrase more "bite" with distortion.

Alternately, the passage you've noted above is just the outlines of chord shapes, so if you wanted, you could just play the full chords, as I've noted here.  Then you won't even have to worry about it and it will sound just fine this way.

E|------------------------------------------------|
B|--9--9--9----6-6-6---13-13-13---8-8-8-8--|   
G|-10-10-10---6-6-6---13-13-13---8-8-8-8--|
D|-10-10-10---6-6-6---13-13-13---8-8-8-8--|
A|-8---8--8----4-4-4---11-11-11---6-6-6-6--|
E|------------------------------------------------|   

Since you're new at it, I'll assume you aren't familiar with normal fretting positions, i.e. what fingers go where.  For that first chord (F minor), index frets the A string, ring on the D string, pinky on the G string, and middle on the B string.  All the others (C#, G#, D#), index on the A string, ring finger frets the other three.  Just be careful not to hit the high E string also, it'll sound a little funny.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Ħ on February 15, 2011, 07:27:55 AM
ring finger frets the other three.
And this is where I decide to learn a different song.  :lol  Thanks to both of you though for your responses.

Ok one more question...

I understand that you are supposed to use alternate picking in most, but are you supposed to do that with chords, or are they all downstrokes?  I ask because when I try to play chords with an upstroke, the pick gets "snagged," so I suspect that is not the way I'm supposed to play them.

I see acoustic players using alternate strumming cause it sounds pretty, but when I try it with a distorted guitar, it just doesn't sound right.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on February 15, 2011, 07:38:55 AM
Playing chords with an imperfect harmony (3rd, 7th etc - anything except 4th & 5th) you'll probably get rubbish sounds on dist. Especially if you keep strumming.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: cthrubuoy on February 15, 2011, 07:53:43 AM
Chords are to be strummed, purely downstrokes or purely upstroke depending on how it sounds, and how you want to play it.

Generally, my advice would be:
If you playing a 3 string chord such as

|---
|---
|---
|-5-
|-5-
|-3-

Downstroke it.
If you're playing a 3 string chord such as

|-4-
|-5-
|-4-
|---
|---
|---

upstroke it.

This is purely for convenience though and wont always be the case. It's one of those things that comes with practice. Try choosing 3/4 chords (E mah, C maj , A min, D maj) and strum them in different ways. Also, try holding the pick in different ways to see what's most comfortable for you. You'll find that you'll hold the pick in different ways when strumming as when playing a single string riff. This is fine, through practice you'll also learn how to change pick position quickly using only your picking hand.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on February 15, 2011, 08:22:23 AM
And this is where I decide to learn a different song.  :lol  Thanks to both of you though for your responses.

To be fair, this is one of the most basic chord shapes on a guitar.  Sooner or later, you're going to learn it.  I see your point, it SOUNDS daunting, certainly.  As with anything else you'll read in this thread and stumble upon in your practicing, this is NOT an insurmountable task.  It will take some time for it to feel right and familiar to your fingers.  Your hands and fingers are not used to being positioned in the ways that you're now trying to make them be.  Muscle memory will eventually take over and it'll be second nature for you and you likely won't even have to think about it anymore.

Quote
Ok one more question...

I understand that you are supposed to use alternate picking in most, but are you supposed to do that with chords, or are they all downstrokes?  I ask because when I try to play chords with an upstroke, the pick gets "snagged," so I suspect that is not the way I'm supposed to play them.

I see acoustic players using alternate strumming cause it sounds pretty, but when I try it with a distorted guitar, it just doesn't sound right.

For me, I would use the term alternate picking, in reference to single note lines.  For instance, say you've got several four note-per-string sequences, one on each string.  I would use alternate (down-up-down-up) picking for efficiency's sake.  Alternate picking is generally used to execute fast sequences most efficiently (economy of motion).

As far as chords go, how you wanna strum it depends on different things.  Pick thickness is one thing.  If you're strumming the chords to "Every Rose Has Its Thorn", you'll be able to strum up and down, but you might best be served by having a thinner pick with which to do this (something like a .73 mm or something).

If you're playing the riff to Metallica's "Leper Messiah", something thicker may be better suited (1 mm to 1.14 mm) and would likely sound better with all downstrokes, for added heaviness.

This makes for another point.  It'd be wise to have several different pick thicknesses on hand to experiment with.  My tastes in pick thicknesses has changed MANY times over the years.  Started out with flimsy ones, then the big triangular flimsy ones, to a 2 mm pick, back to 1.14mm, now I'm usng polished brass picks.  So try out different picks from time to time, to see what works best for you in different situations.

As you learn chords, you'll eventually find ways to play the chords without makng extra noise.  Take cthru's example above.  The second chord (4-5-4).  You're thinking "How am I supposed to pick that, when there's three other strings there I'll likely hit accidentally.  There's no hard and fast answer, except that in time, you'll find your own personal comfort in how to mute those extra strings, or pick/strum precisely enough to not hit the extra strings.  "I will learn how to strum three strings on their own?"  Yes, you will.

I know that the very last thing you want to hear as a new guitar player is "it will take time", but unfortunately, that's the one thing you MOST have to keep in mind.  Be patient and eventually, if you keep practicing, these things WILL come to you.


Playing chords with an imperfect harmony (3rd, 7th etc - anything except 4th & 5th) you'll probably get rubbish sounds on dist. Especially if you keep strumming.

Yeah, especially if you're only playing those two notes.  I find though, that if you're doing a full major chord that even with distortion, it sounds pretty decent.  Minor chords will sound slightly dissonant with distortion, but I think using the A minor shape that uses the A string as the root note sounds better through distortion than the full E string root minor chords.  Could be just me, though.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: BRGM on February 15, 2011, 10:28:28 AM
learn the intro riff to ITPOE pt.1, that's how I did, oh and I used tabs
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on February 15, 2011, 01:19:03 PM
Playing chords with an imperfect harmony (3rd, 7th etc - anything except 4th & 5th) you'll probably get rubbish sounds on dist. Especially if you keep strumming.

Yeah, especially if you're only playing those two notes.  I find though, that if you're doing a full major chord that even with distortion, it sounds pretty decent.  Minor chords will sound slightly dissonant with distortion, but I think using the A minor shape that uses the A string as the root note sounds better through distortion than the full E string root minor chords.  Could be just me, though.
Well, I wouldn't agree with that two-note thing. If you're playing only two notes, it often works out even on heavy dist. I mean, that's how black metal atmospheric guitar playing works - playing a 2nd apart basically. And root-b5 is also pretty epic..
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Ħ on February 15, 2011, 01:23:33 PM
Chords are to be strummed, purely downstrokes or purely upstroke depending on how it sounds, and how you want to play it.

Generally, my advice would be:
If you playing a 3 string chord such as

|---
|---
|---
|-5-
|-5-
|-3-

Downstroke it.
If you're playing a 3 string chord such as

|-4-
|-5-
|-4-
|---
|---
|---

upstroke it.

This is purely for convenience though and wont always be the case. It's one of those things that comes with practice. Try choosing 3/4 chords (E mah, C maj , A min, D maj) and strum them in different ways. Also, try holding the pick in different ways to see what's most comfortable for you. You'll find that you'll hold the pick in different ways when strumming as when playing a single string riff. This is fine, through practice you'll also learn how to change pick position quickly using only your picking hand.
Huh...to me it would be more convenient to upstroke the first and downstroke the second, because you eliminate the possibility of bumping into strings.  Or is there a sound issue involved, where it's better to end a chord towards the middle strings?
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: sneakyblueberry on February 15, 2011, 01:37:26 PM
My advice to you would be to start simple and SLOWLY work your way up.  If your having trouble with the Holiday octaves, maybe just stick to simple stuff like wrapping your head around barre and open chords.

I'm currently teaching two beginner guitarist and seriously the biggest hurdle that they face is that they have no feel for the guitar.  Its like a baby taking it's first steps; they're not too sure how their fingers/hands/body should be placed, how hard they need to fret, how to strum, how to hold a pick, the rhythm for the strum etc.  It is really difficult at first, but you need these foundations set solidly if you want to be a good guitar player.

Simple is key.  You're gonna wanna start playing your absolute favourite songs at first, but in reality, you'll probably end up giving up because of the difficulty.  Just learn simple songs at so you can develop a feel for the guitar.  Nirvana stuff, White Stripes, etc.  You may hate the songs to death, but its not about that: but its about learning to love the guitar.  If you punch above your weight, your going to loathe the guitar. 



tl;dr

Do not do this:
learn the intro riff to ITPOE pt.1
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on February 15, 2011, 02:46:53 PM
Do not do this:
learn the intro riff to ITPOE pt.1

lol. I learned in the sax a while ago, then I forgot it because the rest of the song was too messed up with odd time signatures and constant notes - no time to breathe. So I gave up on learning the bass on ITPOE pt 1
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: cthrubuoy on February 16, 2011, 02:07:05 AM
learn the intro riff to ITPOE pt.1, that's how I did, oh and I used tabs

(https://turklishtefl.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Laughing.jpg)
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: BRGM on February 16, 2011, 03:01:39 PM
It's true! :O a "friend" showed me guitar pro! and then I just learned the 24 first notes on ITPOE! the rest is history, sure, it took a while to nail it, and to keep up the tempo, but now I can do it in my sleep.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: cthrubuoy on February 17, 2011, 03:41:41 AM
Are you referring to this?
Code: [Select]
E|-5-----------------------------------------------|
B|---6-8-5---6---5---------------------------------|
G|---------7---7---5---7-----5---------------------|
D|-------------------7---7-5---5-3-2---------------|
A|-----------------------------------5-----3-------|
E|-------------------------------------5-3---3-1-0-|

This is NOT a beginner lick.

Advising someone who hasn't played guitar before to just pick one up and slam this out isn't going to help anyone. There are so many things wrong with it.
For starters, the lick is on all 6 strings. Having not yet got to grips with a one string lick, 6 is a pretty daunting task.
Next, I believe the lick is started on an upstroke. A beginner would not know this and could be learning and forcing the bad habit of playing such things in completely the wrong way.
The lick uses all four fingers and needs at least moderate dexterity in order to play it competently. A beginner would not have this and may again be forcing a bad habit to occur.
The lick forces multiple changes in hand positions.
The lick is descending rather than ascending, which I've noticed is another trait difficult for the beginner guitarist.
It's also quite a fast lick in the grand scheme of things. A beginner may not realise to speed such a lick down, causing sloppiness and again, bad habits.
I could go on...

I'm all for throwing people in at the deep end, but this really isn't that way to do it.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: BRGM on February 18, 2011, 04:26:50 PM
...it worked for me...or maybe I have some bad habits...oh well!
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: sneakyblueberry on February 19, 2011, 10:14:44 PM
Do not do this:
learn the intro riff to ITPOE pt.1

lol. I learned in the sax a while ago, then I forgot it because the rest of the song was too messed up with odd time signatures and constant notes - no time to breathe. So I gave up on learning the bass on ITPOE pt 1

??? are you saying you learnt the bass part on sax? :lol
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Ħ on February 27, 2011, 07:15:15 PM
So...an update.

- I can play the eight common chords pretty fluently except Dm and sometimes G.
- Alternate picking is clean at about 152 (playing eighth notes)
- I learned a couple blues scales and now I sound good even though I'm just randomly hitting notes.  :biggrin:

As for songs...I can play the intro to Pull Me Under, the Mother solo, the Another Day intro solo, and a lot of the easy beginner strumming songs.

Not at JP-level yet, though.  But reaching.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on February 27, 2011, 11:54:14 PM
Great to hear you're making progress.  :tup
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: axeman90210 on March 20, 2011, 10:02:08 PM
Just wanted to say this thread was very good to read through as someone who very casually played for a couple years in high school and into college, but hadn't picked up a guitar for about a year and a half until the other day. That Steve Vai 30 hour workout in particular looks like it'll come in handy.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: unklejman on May 12, 2011, 04:07:29 PM
Ok here's my story. For years now I've fiddled on my guitar. On several attempts I've tried to really start learning how to play but I always get overwhelmed about where to start. I play the trombone, and I learned the Horn a several years ago with no problems, because you just have to learn linear notes/scales, not chords and bar chords etc.  To this day I only know to play the basic E, E minor, G, A, maybe C and F. I can play the C major scale. But through out the years I did learn playing technique, and figured out power chords (probably incorrectly) and even recorded a few tracks:

https://jreydesign.com/misc/captive_track.mp3
https://www.jreydesign.com/misc/are_you_out_there_draft_track.mp3 (this one never got finished and isn't the final mix.)

I have absolutely no idea what I played in those tracks, except maybe what root the power chords were on. I feel like a waste really. I've been trying to make myself get lessons, but I've alway been nervous about getting the wrong teacher. I think I'm going to go ahead and push myself to do it. I've always shyed away from tabs, because I'm used to reading notation. Is it odd for guitar players to learn notation instead of tabs? Also, what should be some guidelines when choosing a teacher?
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jonny108 on May 13, 2011, 07:28:37 AM
I'd recommend just sell your guitar on ebay, you'll never be as good as Petrucci so just don't bother  :)

In all seriousness sounds like your coming along nicely.  Keep it going dude!  :)
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Kotowboy on May 15, 2011, 02:45:39 PM
I remember barre chords taking about 6 months before I could move the E shape up the neck without losing the shape.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Ħ on May 15, 2011, 06:55:35 PM
I remember barre chords taking about 6 months before I could move the E shape up the neck without losing the shape.
I've been learning barre chords recently.  I don't know if I'm doing it wrong, but they sound much thinner and less vibrant than open chords.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on May 16, 2011, 02:05:44 AM
I remember barre chords taking about 6 months before I could move the E shape up the neck without losing the shape.
I've been learning barre chords recently.  I don't know if I'm doing it wrong, but they sound much thinner and less vibrant than open chords.
That's how it is in the beginning. Just keep practicing it and you'll get it in no time.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: Kotowboy on May 17, 2011, 09:18:04 AM
Barre chords will sound a lot less ringy due to the fact that there are no open strings.

I've been playing for 17 years now and I almost never use barre chords anymore anyway.

I find powerchords or triads a lot more efficient
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: SPNKr on May 19, 2011, 04:16:24 AM
Triads ftw. They make you look so bad arse.

So lately I've been into learning lefty style, sounds stupid right? Well I'm getting it down so far and haven't stopped or gotten frustrated yet.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: jsem on May 19, 2011, 08:58:35 AM
Why would you learn lefty.. hahaha.. good luck though, I can't get it to work at ALL lefty.
Title: Re: I want to learn guitar.
Post by: SPNKr on May 20, 2011, 04:45:59 AM
^ I don't know. Why would you play any instrument? It all comes down to what you want to learn/what you've always wanted to learn.
I want to know all about what guitars and my hands can do. Plus when I started I really wished I could play lefty because I was very into Hendrix.He's what made me wanna learn it seriously, but I stayed right handed because I already had better coordination skills.
I grasped the basics of fretting and picking a few years before I was a serious player. Thanks though, jsem.