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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: LieLowTheWantedMan on December 09, 2010, 09:45:22 AM
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I am interested in hearing some of your favourite drummers.
Mine are:
Pierre Moerlen (Gong) (if you wanna know why he's great, look up Master Builder by Gong on youtube and listen to the full song. I would link it, but I'm at school and Youtube is blocked. :()
Jaki Liebezeit (Can)
Gavin Harrison (Porcupine Tree)
Bill Bruford (King Crimson, Yes)
Billy Cobham (Mahavishnu Orchestra)
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Tony Williams
Carter Beauford
Bill Bruford
John Bonham
Art Blakey
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In before MP.
MP
Mike Mangini
Josh Eppard
Neil Peart
80's Lars Ulrich
Richard Christy (especially his stuff with Death)
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Mark Zonder
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Gavin Harrison, Bill Bruford, and Zach Hill are the big names that come to mind.
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While I can name tons of drummers that are far more talented, none of them have the sense of style and artistry, tastefulness if you will, as the professor. Listening to (or watching) him do his thing always makes me immensely happy.
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Billy Cobham (Mahavishnu Orchestra)
So right.
also in the jazz section:
Elvin Jones
Joe Morello
Jo Jones
Art blakey
one of my favs of all time:
Jeff Porcaro. Legendary drummer.
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Actually, mine edited to include Art Blakey, forgot him.
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Mike Portnoy of course
Neil Peart
Nick D'Virgilio
Gavin Harrison
and last but not least,
Steve Moore :P
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80's Lars Ulrich
I can get behind this. Otherwise:
NP
MP
Ted Kirkpatrick (Tourniquet)
Dave Lombardo (but more for his work outside of Slayer, i.e. Testament, Grip Inc.)
Matt Cameron (for Soundgarden and Geddy's solo album, not so much Pearl Jam)
Also, I'm only just beginning to listen to PT, but Gavin Harrison is already very impressive.
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Richard Christy
Tommy Aldridge
Cozy Powell
Scott Travis
John Tempesta
Titta Tani
Chuck Biscuits
Gene Hoglan
Ian Paice
Bobby Jarzombek
Mike Portnoy
Paul Bostaph
Eric Carr
Van Williams
etc. etc. etc.
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John Tempesta
I love his work on Testament's Low, but I don't know much else of his stuff besides the popular White Zombie/Rom Zombie songs.
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Neil Peart
Mike Portnoy
Gavin Harrison
Jeff Porcaro
Bill Bruford
Billy Cobham
David Garibaldi
David Weckl
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John Tempesta
I love his work on Testament's Low, but I don't know much else of his stuff besides the popular White Zombie/Rom Zombie songs.
He also did First Strike Still Deadly with Testament (and some of their Live London DVD), 2 Exodus records, plus he's currently in The Cult. He's done a whole slew of stuff. Amazing, versatile guy. One of the few guys I actually got starstruck in front of and couldn't talk to, despite being a foot from him while he casually smoked a cigarette :lol
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Mike Portnoy (of course)
Conny Pettersson
Danny Carey
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Neil Peart
Gavin Harrison
Danny Carey
Mike Portnoy
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Neil Peart
Carter Beauford
John Bonham
Gavin Harrison
Carl Palmer
Neal Peart
:facepalm:
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Portnoy
Peart
Moon
Bozzio
whoever it is that drums for planet x and alot of Derek's solo cd's
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Neal Peart
:facepalm:
Damnit....
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Portnoy
Peart
Moon
Bozzio
whoever it is that drums for planet x and alot of Derek's solo cd's
Virgil Donati
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Hard choice, even though i appreciate good drumming, it's probably the instrument (apart from bass-guitar) that i focus on the least in the music, and it has to be really unique and cool-parts in order to make me go "WOW".
Mark Heron (Oceansize) is one of my personal favorites, i especially love the special vibe he gives to certain songs, songs like "An Old Friend of the Christie's", "Commemorative 9/11 T-Shirt" and "Massive Bereavement" where the drumming adds loads of atmosphere to the song.
Gavin Harrison (Porcupine Tree) is another example of a drummer i like, though when it comes to PT, the drums aren't the thing i focus on the most.
It's kinda hard to explain, but i feel that... SW's songwriting-skills (aka. making catchy and great songs) kinda stands in the way a bit, with a lot of other bands i love i can appreciate all the aspects, but when it comes to PT i rarely see it like that.
Obviously being a DT-forum i should mention Mike Pornoy, but he has never really been a personal-favorite.
He's good though.
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Obviously being a DT-forum i should mention Mike Pornoy, but he has never really been a personal-favorite.
He's good though.
Portnoy to me is like Chevy Chase is to me as far as actors go. Portnoy is in a handful of bands/side projects I love, but I wouldn't call him an absolute favorite on the drums, just like Chase is in quite a few of my favorite comedies of all-time, but I wouldn't call him one of my favorite actors. Make sense?
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Obviously being a DT-forum i should mention Mike Pornoy, but he has never really been a personal-favorite.
He's good though.
Portnoy to me is like Chevy Chase is to me as far as actors go. Portnoy is in a handful of bands/side projects I love, but I wouldn't call him an absolute favorite on the drums, just like Chase is in quite a few of my favorite comedies of all-time, but I wouldn't call him one of my favorite actors. Make sense?
Makes perfect sense.
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Love the bass player/drummer groove Opeth and Riverside have. Don't remember their names though (Opeth has had two or more drummers I guess)
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Orri Páll Dýrason
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Gavin Harrison
Thomas Lang
Carter Beauford
Danny Carey
Dino Campanella
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MP
NP
Eric Carr
Eric Singer
Cozy Powell
Randy Castillo
Scott Rockenfield
Jeff Campitelli
Carl Palmer
Bobby Rock
These are the drummers that stood out for me. Maybe not the best drummers in the world but the ones that made me take notice when all I usually noticed were the guitars. I would have put peter Criss but I would have had to duck!!!
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Orri Páll Dýrason
:tup
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Ian Paice
Bill Ward
Bonzo
Lars Ulrich
inb4 Nicko McBrain
Shawn Drover
Dave Lombardo
Paul Bostaph
Charlie Benante
Many jazz drummers
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Can't believe I'm the first to mention Nicko McBrain. The guy's a beast.
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Can't believe I'm the first to mention Nicko McBrain. The guy's a beast.
inb4 Nicko McBrain
Sorry, just had to.
EDIT: Also adding Gavin Harrison.
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Neil Peart
Gavin Harrison
MP
Christoph Schneider
Martin Lopez
Nicko McBrain
Brann Dailor
Thomas Lang
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Portnoy
The Rev
Blake Richardson
Gene Hoglan
Dominic Howard
Matthew McDonough
Lars Ulrich
Brann Dailor
Martin Axenrot
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Jojo Mayer
Danny Carey
Steve Gadd
Billy Cobham
Vinnie Colaiuta
Dave Weckl
Neil Peart
Mike Portnoy
Tim Alexander
Tomas Haake
Gavin Harrison
Stewart Copeland
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Mario Duplantier and Gavin Harrison
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How could I have forgotten Vinnie Colaiuta.
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Tomas Haake
Danny Carey
Chris Penney (in TDEP)
Gavin Harrison
Bill Bruford
Ben Koller
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Tomas Haake
Chris Penney (in TDEP)
OH SHIT! How could I have forgotten them?! :metal
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Can't believe I'm the first to mention Nicko McBrain. The guy's a beast.
inb4 Nicko McBrain
Sorry, just had to.
EDIT: Also adding Gavin Harrison.
Darn you all to heck
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Can't believe I'm the first to mention Nicko McBrain. The guy's a beast.
inb4 Nicko McBrain
Sorry, just had to.
EDIT: Also adding Gavin Harrison.
Darn you all to heck
:lol :lol
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Mario Duplantier and Gavin Harrison
It's great too see Gavin everywere but where is the love for Mario??
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Mike Portnoy
Danny Carey
Nicko McBrain
Vinnie Paul
John Bonham
Terry Bozzio
Richard Christy
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Neil Peart
Mike Portnoy
Nicko McBrain
Joey Jordison
Brian Downey
Bill Bruford
John Bonham
Dan Zimmerman
Ringo Starr
Nick Mason
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Mike Portnoy
Max Weinberg
Nicko McBrain
Neil Peart
Phil Collins
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Mike Portnoy
Max Weinberg
Nicko McBrain
Neil Peart
Phil Collins
Have you ever heard a drummer with such a distinguishable sound as Phil's? When you hear his toms it's Phil!
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( ) Represent the acts in which I find said drummer my 'favourite'. If I don't like the music, I'm not going to listen to a record just to hear him play. I'm much more of a guitar-orientated person anyway.
I like them all for entirely different reasons, be it technical chops or a great feel for the music. I must say I think 'feel' is the most important thing that a drummer should have. Gavin Harrisson is kind of a God in this respect, because he's the most tasteful technical drummer I've ever heard. This guy is just.. insane.
In order:
John Bonham (Led Zeppelin)
Nick Mason (Pink Floyd) - Most underrated drummer on this list -> See 'Live in Pompeii' for proof.
Gavin Harrisson (Porcupine Tree, OSI)
Mike Portnoy (Dream Theater, Liquid Tension Experiment)
Josh Freese (Nine Inch Nails, A Perfect Circle, (Spice Girls :lol) )
Steve Jordan (John Mayer)
Steve Gadd (Peter Gabriel, Eric Clapton, and loads of other stuff)
Ringo Starr (The Beatles)
Thomas Haake (Meshuggah)
Dino Campanella (dredg)
Dave Grohl (Nirvana, Queens of the Stone Age, Them Crooked Vultures)
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In no order:
Morgan Rose (Sevendust)
Neil Peart (Rush)
Will Calhoun (Living Colour)
Brann Dailor (Mastodon)
Sean Kinney (Alice in Chains)
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Not a big drum guy, but the two who have stood out through my musical journey for the past 30-some years have been:
Keith Moon
Mike Portnoy
On a personal level, perhaps my favorite musician is a local drummer named Jon Bolton (not currently serving as National Security Advisor). He's been playing the local circuit at least since I've been 21 (that's 20+ years for those of you scoring at home, or even those who are alone). I cannot speak to how talented of a drummer he is, but he is the most damn entertaining musician I've ever seen, and a cool guy as I have spoken with him a couple times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCUwgR2nTM0
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As a drummer, there's just so many great ones. I guess I have a few that's been very important to me in my playing but also for just being great drummers
The legends:
Dave Weckl (Hands down my favourite drummer ever and the drummer that's made the biggest impact on my playing)
Vinnie Colaiuta
Joe Morello
Buddy Rich
Other drummers that influenced me one way or the other:
Nicko McBrain
Thomas Haake
Virgil Donati
Sebastian Lanser
Marco Minnemann
Todd Sucherman
Benny Greb
Per Lindvall
Cliff Almond
I can go on and on, soooo many great drummers other there today.
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Mike Portnoy
Max Weinberg
Nicko McBrain
Neil Peart
Phil Collins
I read that quick as "MAX Portnoy" and thought "good for him!" and then "MIKE Weinberg" and thought "how nice of Zydar to put the kid that lives down the block on his list!".
My drumming Mount Rushmore:
Bonham
Peart
Portnoy
Collins
There are other drummers I like - Bruford, Tim Alexander, Stephen Perkins, Ringo, Ian Mosley, Jaimoe/Butch, Mickey/Bill - but those are the four that I will sometimes put on a song JUST to hear them.
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As a drummer, there's just so many great ones. I guess I have a few that's been very important to me in my playing but also for just being great drummers
The legends:
Dave Weckl (Hands down my favourite drummer ever and the drummer that's made the biggest impact on my playing)
Vinnie Colaiuta
Joe Morello
Buddy Rich
Other drummers that influenced me one way or the other:
Nicko McBrain
Thomas Haake
Virgil Donati
Sebastian Lanser
Marco Minnemann
Todd Sucherman
Benny Greb
Per Lindvall
Cliff Almond
I can go on and on, soooo many great drummers other there today.
Neil Peart
Mike Portnoy
Gavin Harrison
Jeff Porcaro
Bill Bruford
Billy Cobham
David Garibaldi
David Weckl
How could I have forgotten Vinnie Colaiuta.
I'm with ya!
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As a drummer, there's just so many great ones. I guess I have a few that's been very important to me in my playing but also for just being great drummers
The legends:
Dave Weckl (Hands down my favourite drummer ever and the drummer that's made the biggest impact on my playing)
Vinnie Colaiuta
Joe Morello
Buddy Rich
Other drummers that influenced me one way or the other:
Nicko McBrain
Thomas Haake
Virgil Donati
Sebastian Lanser
Marco Minnemann
Todd Sucherman
Benny Greb
Per Lindvall
Cliff Almond
I can go on and on, soooo many great drummers other there today.
Neil Peart
Mike Portnoy
Gavin Harrison
Jeff Porcaro
Bill Bruford
Billy Cobham
David Garibaldi
David Weckl
How could I have forgotten Vinnie Colaiuta.
I'm with ya!
Yay! :tup and yes the players you mentioned are all also in my list somewhere. :laugh:
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Phil Collins
Neil Peart
Mike Portnoy
Bill Bruford
Nick D'Virgilio
John Bonham
That space between the first and the others is intended. Phil really is my absolute favourite drummer.
I love a lot of other drummers, but I wouldn't put them in my all time favourite list.
Drummers who amaze me: Antonio Sanchez, Keith Carlock, Craig Blundell
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Baard Kolstad (Leprous) is easily my favourite drummer currently. He is a sight to behold live :metal
I dunno, I also love Brann Dailor and John Bonham
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No love for Jeff Porcaro, anybody?
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No order:
Neil Peart
John Bonham
Bill Ward
MP
Matt Cameron
Sean Kinney
Gene Hoglan
Dave Lombardo
Mike Bordin
Thomas Stauch
Uli Kusch
Nicko McBrain
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No love for Jeff Porcaro, anybody?
My friend. see my list.
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Sorry, King. Facepalm is me. :D
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Me am liking facepalm.
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Hmmm, did I already do this 9 years ago? I dunno. Anyway.
In no order at all.
Mike Portnoy
Neil Peart
Lars Ulrich (sorry, but his approach to groove is really influential for me)
Johan Langell
Thomas Lang
Gavin Harrison
Daniel Erlandson (spelled wrong I'm sure)
I'm sure there's more.
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Bonham
Peart
Portnoy
Paice
Moon
Ward
Bruford
Danny Carey
But Buddy Rich is the greatest drummer ever.
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Favorite drummers are:
Mike Portnoy (so many great, memorable fills, beats, probably favorite to listen to)
Neil Peart (The professor, 'nuff said)
Gavin Harrison (like a machine, always "on", very unique)
Thomas Lang (not in many great bands, but what a beast)
Marco Minnemann (The ultimate "pro" always plays awesome without overplaying)
Keith Moon (unique, when he was on, HE WAS ON!, Live at Leeds is an awesome example of this)
Brian Downey (underrated, had a great "swing" feel)
Danny Carey (solid, love his sound on all albums and live stuff)
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Ginger Baker
Bill Bruford
Phil Collins
Steve Gadd
Blake Richardson
Keith Moon
Neil Peart
Clive Bunker
Mike Portnoy
Jon Hiseman
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Jörg Michael.
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In no particular order.
Steve Smith
Todd Sucherman
Neil Peart
Mike Portnoy
Curly Smith
Alan White
Nicko Mcbrain
Mike Mangini
Are-Jay
Jason Rullo
Gil Moore
Scott Rockenfield
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Jörg Michael.
Hell yeah, especially his work with Running Wild :metal
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Most Influential
Alex Van Halen - 1st drummer that I can remember that caught my attention
Lars Ulrich - Drummer that developed my passion to want to play the drums
Mike Portnoy - Drummer that has had by far the most influence on my own playing style
Others that I enjoy listening to: Danny Carey, Thomas Lang, Mike Mangini, Bill Bruford, Neal Peart, Stuart Copeland, Matt Cameron, Morgan Rose
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Gavin Harrison
Craig Blundell
Nick d'Virgilio
Mike Mangini (of course!)
Marco Minnemann
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Picking my favorite drummers is hard. The top 3 are pretty easy, mostly because they are the ones that have had the greatest influence on me and my drumming.
1. Neil Peart
2. Danny Carey
3. Mike Portnoy
after that in no particular order
Carter Beauford
Gavin Harrison
Blake Richardson
Martin Lopez
Marko Tarvonen
Russ "Proscriptor" Givens
Aquiles Priester
George Kollias
Brann Dailor
Phil Collins
Alex Holzwarth
Gene Hoglan
Truls Haugen
Every drummer that was in Spinal Tap :neverusethis:
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Ranked:
Mike Mangini
Alex Van Halen
Terry Bozzio
Jeff Porcaro
Virgil Donati
Paul Geary
Roger Taylor
Matt Cameron
Bobby Jarzombek
Mike Portnoy
Alan White
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Mike Portnoy
Gavin Harrison
Neil Peart
Jeff Porcaro
And the latest find was Aric Improta, amazing drummer from Night Verses!
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Mike Portnoy
Steve Gadd
Mikkey Dee
Nicko McBrain
Keith Moon
Danny Carey
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no particular order:
Mike Mangini
Phil Collins
Jeff Porcaro
Simon Phillips
Vinnie Colaiuta
Steve Smith
these are the ones that influence(d) me the most I'd say.
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Sometimes you can feel the weight of a picture. To me it's so fun seeing heavyweights like this hanging out together, I can just imagine the admiration each and every one of them have for eachother despite age and time in the business.
(https://scontent.fmmx3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/253968509_424706599017849_1441153898893912777_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=43EwbnsXjfkAX_uWDSA&_nc_ht=scontent.fmmx3-1.fna&oh=bd838ad54e1b587f47ed4dbfe7478abc&oe=61AD731A)
Left to right: Virgil Donati, Gergo Borlai and Dave Weckl
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Danny Carey
Ivar de Graaf
Matt Garstka
Omar Hakim
Gavin Harrison
Daniel Liljekvist
Martin Lopez
Marco Minnemann
Anika Nilles
Neil Peart
Mike Portnoy
Paul Roraback
Morgan Rose
Steve Smith
Dirk Verbeuren
Dave Weckl
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:) . .
Steve White ( Paul Weller ) and his younger brother
Alan White ( oasis )
Jeff Porcaro
Tre Cool
Jimmy Chamberlin
Thomas Lang
Brann Dailor
Todd Sucherman
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I think in general I tend to be drawn to players that have a lot of chops, but know the right spots to highlight them, and the same for gear, they tend to have larger kits, but use them effectively. I like the sound of a variety of different sizes of toms, especially higher-pitched ones, and effects cymbals, splashes, Chinas, stacks, bells and the like. My list could easily include countless more, and I'll probably keep thinking of others, but Terry Bozzio is a glaring one that didn't come right to mind for some reason until I started typing this post out.
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Ooh Ooh Ooh and I really DO NOT Like Buddy Rich. Like - every video I ever see of him - he's hunched over like Quasimodo just going as fast as he can.
I've never been impressed by him. I'd rather listen to Gene Krupa or Joe Morello. People who were actually interesting to listen to.
I think in general I tend to be drawn to players that have a lot of chops, but know the right spots to highlight them, and the same for gear, they tend to have larger kits, but use them effectively. I like the sound of a variety of different sizes of toms, especially higher-pitched ones, and effects cymbals, splashes, Chinas, stacks, bells and the like. My list could easily include countless more, and I'll probably keep thinking of others, but Terry Bozzio is a glaring one that didn't come right to mind for some reason until I started typing this post out.
Chops are good and technique is super important. But honestly - i'd have way more fun with a 4 piece hats crash and ride than I would on mangini's kit. i'm serious.
Gavin Harrison
Ahh good call. How could I forget !
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Neil Peart
Mike Portnoy
Gavin Harrison
Phil Collins
Mike Mangini
Thomas Lang
Ray Hearne
Marco Minnemann
Léo Margarit
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Neil Peart
Carter Beauford
John Bonham
Gavin Harrison
Carl Palmer
Funny to see now this list I made 11 years ago. I guess it shows how on my nerves Portnoy was at the time that I didn't put him in my top 5 :lol, as it would definitely be on there (based on drumming, not personality :rollin :rollin). I would definitely take Harrison and Palmer outta that top 5 and replace them with Portnoy and probably Keith Moon, the latter of whom was a glaring omission last time. I don't listen to The Who that much anymore, but Moon was a relentless beast of a drummer at his peak. Peart will always be number 1, and Beauford and Bonham are both pretty much locked in with me as being top 5 drummers for the foreseeable future.
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John Bonham > > > > Keith Moon and it's not close. :hat
Moon was notoriously sloppy. Plus he single handedly gave all drummers a reputation of being DUH I HIT THINGS AND DEY BREAK!!!
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Huh, not sure how I missed posting here the first time around...
Neil Peart
MP
MM
Marco Minneman
Gavin Harrison
Keith Moon
And as far as I can see, the first female to be mentioned...Senri Kawaguchi
John Bonham > > > > Keith Moon and it's not close. :hat
Moon was notoriously sloppy. Plus he single handedly gave all drummers a reputation of being DUH I HIT THINGS AND DEY BREAK!!!
It's funny, fans say that. Fellow drummers recognize Keith as the genius he was.
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Other than Nicko McBrain, I can't really hear Moon's drumming in anybody's playing.
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I remember a few years back Jimmy Keegan, former drummer for Spock's Beard and currently with Pattern Seeking Animals, wrote a small piece for us at Lady Obscure on Moon. He nailed it needless to say...
Speaking musically, Keith Moon was many things.
At the root, he was unpredictable. The way he plays this song is absolutely unpredictable, much like all Who songs. The accentuations happen almost by accident. He plays fills that nobody would think of playing because he’s not thinking when he’s playing. Just expressing. And face it … he was nuts! If we are true to ourselves, our personality comes out in our playing. Keith had a very specific personality. I would never call him fearless. Quite the contrary, I think he was petrified and consequently his playing and his personality were defense mechanisms. I’ll talk loudly so you don’t realize that I don’t know what to say. I’ll act crazy so you won’t realize that I don’t know how to act. I’ll make jokes and be silly so you don’t know that I’m frightened and sad. He was manic. I’ll play loudly with lot’s of notes so you can’t tell that I’m not a very good drummer. Because of his insecurities and whatever he might have been suffering from, he compensated and often over compensated. But when he was on, he was unstoppable. The proverbial fright train!
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And as far as I can see, the first female to be mentioned...Senri Kawaguchi
I mentioned Anika Nilles a few posts ago. Senri is great too.
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And as far as I can see, the first female to be mentioned...Senri Kawaguchi
I mentioned Anika Nilles a few posts ago. Senri is great too.
Seems I checked every post except the one three before mine :lol
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The big four:
Nick D’Virgilio
Neal Peart
Mike Portnoy
Phil Collins
Some others I really enjoy:
Paul Craddick
Pat Torpey
Rod Morgenstein
Carter Beaufort
Manu Katche
Some others who should be mentioned due to their involvement in some of my favorite bands:
Ian Mosely
Steve Smith
Jerry Gaskill
There’s lots of others, but those are the first to spring to mind.
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It's funny, fans say that. Fellow drummers recognize Keith as the genius he was.
Pfft. Give it enough time and people will be calling Meg White and Lars Ulrich "geniuses" and "Incredible" drummers. And I love Lars.
It just adds to my theory that you aren't allowed to dislike any "classic" musicians.
I saw Ringo on a show recently demonstrating some of his drum parts and he hasn't gotten ANY better since the mid 60s.
He's still really lazy and messy. You'd think after all this time - he might have gotten A BIT better.
How do you play alongside someone like Greg Bisonette and not step up your game ?
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1) Mike Portnoy: My entire drumming style is basically “what if MP was only an okay drummer”. Almost everything I do involving drums is directly influenced by/stolen from him.
2) James “The Rev” Sullivan: It’s very rare when a drummer is also a band’s best songwriter. Jimmy put the music first, and as a result his drum parts were always creative and sounded fresh. He is missed and will be loved forever.
3) Lars Ulrich: I actually like the random fills, and I incorporate that style into my drumming as well. When he practices, Lars is actually a great drummer, and his 80’s and early 90’s output, especially the drumming on AJFA shows how great he could be.
4) Neil Peart: Precision is the word I would use to describe Neil’s drumming. There was never a hit out of place, and even with modern quantizing tools, you can barely tell the difference. The man was brilliant as a drummer, writer, arranger, and overall musician. There’s a reason he’s ranked as one of the all time greats not just in rock, but music in general.
5) Mike Mangini: There was no better drummer to replace Portnoy than Mangini, mostly because there’s probably no better drummer on the planet. The only reason he’s not ranked higher is because I can actually somewhat play the parts of the other four drummers on this list. MM represents the pinnacle of drummer virtuosity, but he doesn’t sacrifice musicality to achieve it. He uses his ridiculous ability to play drums like he’s conducting an orchestra, accenting what the rest of the band around him is doing. It’s inspiring to hear drums treated like a musical instrument and not like something just meant to keep time.
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Fun fact I noticed about Lars recently.
Unlike someone like Portnoy - he doesn't have that signature fill that he does in every song. He actually does play for the song.
Every song on The Black Album for instance has different fills. That's what he does best. Comes up with interesting parts for the song.
You never listen to 5 Metallica songs in a row and hear the exact same fill again and again.
Portnoy is a really good drummer - but once I noticed that - yeah - he does play the same fills a LOT .
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Keith had a very specific personality. I would never call him fearless. Quite the contrary, I think he was petrified and consequently his playing and his personality were defense mechanisms. I’ll talk loudly so you don’t realize that I don’t know what to say. I’ll act crazy so you won’t realize that I don’t know how to act. I’ll make jokes and be silly so you don’t know that I’m frightened and sad. He was manic. I’ll play loudly with lot’s of notes so you can’t tell that I’m not a very good drummer. Because of his insecurities and whatever he might have been suffering from, he compensated and often over compensated.
Interesting assessment, except for the part about not being a very good drummer. I do not know anything about music, outside of what I enjoy and what makes me happy. All I can add from that standpoint, and from what little I've read about the band, is that Keith was the exact drummer the guys needed. And no one else could have filled that role better.
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A few days ago I watched a documentary on Netflix about drummers called Count Me In. Some well- known and some lesser-known drummers enthusiastically discussing their love of drums, and their favourite drummers. Kind a fun watch, though one glaring omission is that there was no mention of Neil Peart.
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1) Mike Portnoy: My entire drumming style is basically “what if MP was only an okay drummer”. Almost everything I do involving drums is directly influenced by/stolen from him.
This is kind of me as well. I used to always hear people talk about how limited his bag of tricks was compared to the super drummers, and it's true, but what he does just sounds good and works. So I overuse the HHKK and HHHHKK sort of stuff as well, it's too fun not to, and as a casual drummer my mastery of rudiments and other more creative things only goes so far.
3) Lars Ulrich: I actually like the random fills, and I incorporate that style into my drumming as well. When he practices, Lars is actually a great drummer, and his 80’s and early 90’s output, especially the drumming on AJFA shows how great he could be.
Or how great the engineers who worked on the album were at splicing together takes to make them sound cohesive. Lars always simplifies the trickiest stuff on the album when they play it live, like "Dyers' Eve".
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A few days ago I watched a documentary on Netflix about drummers called Count Me In. Some well- known and some lesser-known drummers enthusiastically discussing their love of drums, and their favourite drummers. Kind a fun watch, though one glaring omission is that there was no mention of Neil Peart.
Oh.,.then Count Me Out! ;D :lol
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A few days ago I watched a documentary on Netflix about drummers called Count Me In. Some well- known and some lesser-known drummers enthusiastically discussing their love of drums, and their favourite drummers. Kind a fun watch, though one glaring omission is that there was no mention of Neil Peart.
Oh.,.then Count Me Out! ;D :lol
Why am I now thinking of the Count from Sesame Street? :laugh:
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I have no issue with someone rating Lars as one of their favorite drummers. Metallica has been an influential band for almost 40 years. His drum parts are cemented in many of our brains. Sure, plenty of guys can drum around him, but how many people did....I don't know..Thomas Lang inspire to play the drums? I feel like if you've heard of Thomas Lang, you already played the drums. I've been an extremely dedicated music fan for 40 years, and I never heard of Thomas Lang until the DT auditions, and I've never heard of him since.
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1. Pick Withers (first 4 Dire Straits albums). Everything he played just seemed so perfect for the music and complimented Knopfler's stories so well (case in point being the 'galloping' drum work during the 4-minute outro of Telegraph Road which helps paint the picture of neverending motion that the song described).
2. John Bonham. Nuff said.
3. Nick Mason. Not exactly what you'd call a technically gifted drummer (he didn't even play some of the drum parts on the later Floyd albums) but what he did play back in the early to mid 70s was so tasteful, thoughtful, and 'right' for the music.
4. Danny Carey. Rosetta Stoned. I rest my case. Fella's using baseball bats instead of drum sticks. And that solo album he released in 2019, Fear Inoculum, was amazing.
5. Mike Portnoy. In The Name of God is probably my single favourite drum performance ever.
Bonus material:
6. Phil Collins. The (in)famous 9/8 section of Supper's Ready would be nothing like as thrilling as it is without his contribution. Ditto the entire Lamb Lies Down On Broadway album (Fly On A Windshield anyone?).
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It just adds to my theory that you aren't allowed to dislike any "classic" musicians.
C'mon man. You can dislike anyone you want. What you can't do is deny someone's influence in the face of endless testimonials.
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3. Nick Mason. Not exactly what you'd call a technically gifted drummer (he didn't even play some of the drum parts on the later Floyd albums) but what he did play back in the early to mid 70s was so tasteful, thoughtful, and 'right' for the music.
When did that start? I had never heard that. It was nice to see Guy Pratt say he was solid as a rock on that Saucerful of Secrets tour, and he played with Nick as far back as the late 80s. Watch their video, he doesn't look like a guy in his 70s.
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3. Nick Mason. Not exactly what you'd call a technically gifted drummer (he didn't even play some of the drum parts on the later Floyd albums) but what he did play back in the early to mid 70s was so tasteful, thoughtful, and 'right' for the music.
When did that start? I had never heard that. It was nice to see Guy Pratt say he was solid as a rock on that Saucerful of Secrets tour, and he played with Nick as far back as the late 80s. Watch their video, he doesn't look like a guy in his 70s.
I know that Jeff Porcaro played the drums on the studio version of Mother from The Wall. I think Mason couldn't get the tempo right, and they wanted to keep it moving, so they had Porcaro knock it out quickly, IIRC.
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3. Nick Mason. Not exactly what you'd call a technically gifted drummer (he didn't even play some of the drum parts on the later Floyd albums) but what he did play back in the early to mid 70s was so tasteful, thoughtful, and 'right' for the music.
When did that start? I had never heard that. It was nice to see Guy Pratt say he was solid as a rock on that Saucerful of Secrets tour, and he played with Nick as far back as the late 80s. Watch their video, he doesn't look like a guy in his 70s.
From The Wall onwards. Jeff Porcaro plays on Mother and Bring The Boys Back Home, and the record's engineer James Guthrie did some other percussion work. And then on the next album, The Final Cut, Mason wasn't able to get the drums right on Two Suns in the Sunset so they drafted in a session player (Andy Newmark).
The 2 post-Waters albums were both done by committee, God only knows who was playing what on them.
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Keith had a very specific personality. I would never call him fearless. Quite the contrary, I think he was petrified and consequently his playing and his personality were defense mechanisms. I’ll talk loudly so you don’t realize that I don’t know what to say. I’ll act crazy so you won’t realize that I don’t know how to act. I’ll make jokes and be silly so you don’t know that I’m frightened and sad. He was manic. I’ll play loudly with lot’s of notes so you can’t tell that I’m not a very good drummer. Because of his insecurities and whatever he might have been suffering from, he compensated and often over compensated.
Interesting assessment, except for the part about not being a very good drummer. I do not know anything about music, outside of what I enjoy and what makes me happy. All I can add from that standpoint, and from what little I've read about the band, is that Keith was the exact drummer the guys needed. And no one else could have filled that role better.
That's a great line, and probably exactly what Pete would say if confronted with the same question.
As to Moon's skills, I'd imagine Keegan's comment is tongue in cheek, I know from talking to Jimmy that Moon is his most highly respected drummer. And aside, I'd trust his assessment of a drummer wayyyyy over any of ours as a musician who has toured internationally with some serious talents.
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Huh never knew that. As I typed in another thread, I know nothing about music, so pardon me for asking, but how does a drummer, who has played as part of a wildly successful band for decades, have trouble "getting the tempo right?"
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Dead:
Cozy Powell
Eric Carr
Neil Peart
Living:
John Macaluso
Kevin Soffera
Glen Sobel
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Huh never knew that. As I typed in another thread, I know nothing about music, so pardon me for asking, but how does a drummer, who has played as part of a wildly successful band for decades, have trouble "getting the tempo right?"
Honestly that confuses me too and I don't know the answer to it. There are stories from those who were there of how no matter how many times he attempted it, Two Suns in the Sunset was simply beyond him, yet for the life of me I can't hear what is so difficult in that song. But I also know next to nothing about music so it's very possible I'm missing something, maybe it's the Eruption of drumming.
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but how many people did....I don't know..Thomas Lang inspire to play the drums? I feel like if you've heard of Thomas Lang, you already played the drums. I've been an extremely dedicated music fan for 40 years, and I never heard of Thomas Lang until the DT auditions, and I've never heard of him since.
His work on Paul Gilbert's later albums like Vibrato and I Can Destroy is really great, Arch/Matheos, Ostura, Eric Gillette, even St0rk is an underrated project, not to mention his earlier work with John Wetton. And there has to be at least one person who heard his playing on B*Witched or with Bonnie Tyler and either subtly or by looking him up later was influenced by him.
John Macaluso
He is on fire on Ark's Burn the Sun. Oops, didn't intend the pun, but hey, it fits.
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Arch/Matheos,
Cool. I guess I didn't read the liner notes close enough. Yeah, I recognized most of the other acts you mentioned, though I've not listened to them.
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John Macaluso
He is on fire on Ark's Burn the Sun. Oops, didn't intend the pun, but hey, it fits.
[/quote]
And on his solo album John Macaluso & Union Radio - The radio waves goodbye.
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Arch/Matheos,
Cool. I guess I didn't read the liner notes close enough. Yeah, I recognized most of the other acts you mentioned, though I've not listened to them.
I have to say I didn't know a lot about him myself until after the DT auditions. Before then to me he was the guy with crazy chops who did insane stick tricks in Youtube videos and I'd heard that he had toured with mainstream overseas pop acts because his timing is freakishly perfect. Now that he's been on my radar he's rapidly become one of my upper-tier drummers. Eric Gillette is from Neal Morse's band, which seems to be a favorite here. Ostura is sort of Ayreon-ish. St0rk is a project with Shane Gibson, who was in KoRn for awhile.
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Thatnks Litho!
I did listen to the Ostura album..what..a couple of years ago. I remember Lonestar pimping it hard.
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Portnoy is a really good drummer - but once I noticed that - yeah - he does play the same fills a LOT .
I wonder if this could be a saturation thing. MP has played on a lot more albums than Lars had so I would imagine he would go back to his bag of fills more often.
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1. Hellhammer (technical, fast, plays in many good bands, cool dude)
2. Mike Portnoy (first drummer that made me really listen to the drums on records. Im not a drummer)
3. Danny Carey
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Or how great the engineers who worked on the album were at splicing together takes to make them sound cohesive. Lars always simplifies the trickiest stuff on the album when they play it live, like "Dyers' Eve".
I love this argument. As if that's not how ALL bands record albums. Record the song 50 times and pick the best takes. But of course - when it's LARS its because he can only manage 4 bars at a time.
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Sure, many bands do it to a certain extent, but Lars is quite notorious for taking an unusually large number of takes to track his parts and for sloppy live playing. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have a critical role for them. He obviously hasn't held Metallica back from success, he's inspired countless players, has been a key part of arranging Hetfield's riffs into iconic songs, and handles various items on the business end of things. But that doesn't place him above criticism for his flaws either. The most elite players can knock out sessions quickly and can duplicate their studio work live reasonably well. With Lars sometimes there is a disparity.
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Neil Peart
Mike Mangini
Mike Portnoy
Todd Sucherman
Alan White
Bill Bruford
Nicko Mcbrain
Gavin Harrison
Arejay Hale
Keith Moon
Terry Bozzio
Gil Moore
Jason Rullo
Curley Smith
Dean Castronovo
Marco Minneman
Kai Hahto
Steve Smith
Too many to mention..
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The drummers that have really blown me away lately are Baard Kolstad from Leprous and Eloy Casagrande from Sepultura.
Such creative players doing stuff in metal bands that is so out of the ordinary and different than what the majority of metal drummers are doing.
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Huh never knew that. As I typed in another thread, I know nothing about music, so pardon me for asking, but how does a drummer, who has played as part of a wildly successful band for decades, have trouble "getting the tempo right?"
Honestly that confuses me too and I don't know the answer to it. There are stories from those who were there of how no matter how many times he attempted it, Two Suns in the Sunset was simply beyond him, yet for the life of me I can't hear what is so difficult in that song. But I also know next to nothing about music so it's very possible I'm missing something, maybe it's the Eruption of drumming.
Sometimes some of the "easier" stuff - technically - is harder, since it's the nuances that then come into play. There's a great example on the Crosby Stills and Nash box set where the band starts "Almost Cut My Hair" and Crosby stops them and says "too slow!". They start up again, very subtlely faster, and one can hear the difference in there. There's also the feel to things; the coming in "in front of the beat" versus "behind the beat".
I know for me, up to a point, if I'm playing something moderately busy (like a guitar strum), it's easier to keep time than playing one note every couple seconds or so (I'm writing that in non-musical terms) or taking a number of measures off before coming back in exactly on time.
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Playing guitar is so much easier than drums. I've been playing drums and trying to get better since around 1995. And I'm still DREADFUL.
Whereas I started playing guitar properly around 1997 and whilst i'm no Petrucci - i'd say I was pretty good. At least I can solo on guitar.
It really gets me down how hard it is to get really f-ing good on drums. :emo: I practice a lot and do rudiments etc and progress is
a f-ing glacier's pace. Oh well. Just one more thing i'm epically sh*t at.
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Neil Peart
Mike Portnoy
Gavin Harrison
Phil Collins
Mike Mangini
Thomas Lang
Ray Hearne
Marco Minnemann
Léo Margarit
How did I forget Nick D’Virgilio - Revised list, in no particular order, except for the first two -
Neil Peart
Mike Portnoy
Gavin Harrison
Phil Collins
Mike Mangini
Thomas Lang
Ray Hearne
Marco Minnemann
Léo Margarit
Nick D’Virgilio
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Eloy Casagrande from Sepultura.
Eloy is the most impressive metal drummer today.
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Eloy Casagrande from Sepultura.
Eloy is the most impressive metal drummer today.
Great call! I forgot about that one..
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Mike Portnoy
Baard Kolstad
Jamie Postones (TesseracT)
Jamie Saint Merat (Ulcerate)
Martin Lopez
Brann Dailor
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What do you look for in a drummer? Drumming is, as much as any instrument, a physical endeavor. Do you look for physical accomplishment? Musical? Both?
For me, the drummers I like best are the most... musical. There's a physicality to the drummers I like, and a certain power, but it's not like that's enough for me. I listen to some drummers and it's so obviously a feat of endurance or coordination, like an athlete, but that doesn't usually move me.
My Mt. Rushmore is Bonham, Collins, Peart, and Portnoy. I'm a fan of guys like Tim Alexander, Keith Moon, Zak Starkey, Nico McBrain, Cozy Powell, Carl Palmer, early Bill Ward...
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They have to be musical.
I'd much rather listen to Todd Sucherman than Dave Lombardo blasting away.
Drummers like Derek Roddy don't impress me as speed and blasts is all they do.
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Playing guitar is so much easier than drums. I've been playing drums and trying to get better since around 1995. And I'm still DREADFUL. Whereas I started playing guitar properly around 1997 and whilst i'm no Petrucci - i'd say I was pretty good. At least I can solo on guitar. It really gets me down how hard it is to get really f-ing good on drums. :emo: I practice a lot and do rudiments etc and progress is a f-ing glacier's pace. Oh well. Just one more thing i'm epically sh*t at.
I know what you mean. I've spent more time on drums in the last half-decade than guitar, and I'm getting closer to similar absolute skill levels, but it feels like I have so much further to go with drumming. The little nuances and micro-timing are so elusive, and critical to any style you can think of, whereas it feels like other than super technical metal and such you can get away with so much more in fudging the details on guitar. If you screw up on drums, the whole band can come crashing down, but if you screw up on guitar, no big deal, the show goes on and probably no one even notices other than other guitarists watching of a similar or greater skill level.
They have to be musical.
I'd much rather listen to Todd Sucherman than Dave Lombardo blasting away.
That's more of a stylistic issue than anything, intense thrash like Slayer calls for extremely aggressive drumming. But Lombardo is one of the most interesting ones doing it, his playing has a groove and looseness to it that few others do, particularly in terms of his fills. Compare his playing to the albums that Paul Bostaph is on and it becomes more apparent. Bostaph is more in his element with techier stuff like Forbidden. Ted Kirkpatrick of Tourniquet is probably my favorite thrash drummer, and he incorporates a whole lot of other elements into his playing than just fast double bass and meat beats. Check out a track like "Phantom Limb".
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What do you look for in a drummer? Drumming is, as much as any instrument, a physical endeavor. Do you look for physical accomplishment? Musical? Both?
For me, the drummers I like best are the most... musical. There's a physicality to the drummers I like, and a certain power, but it's not like that's enough for me. I listen to some drummers and it's so obviously a feat of endurance or coordination, like an athlete, but that doesn't usually move me.
My Mt. Rushmore is Bonham, Collins, Peart, and Portnoy. I'm a fan of guys like Tim Alexander, Keith Moon, Zak Starkey, Nico McBrain, Cozy Powell, Carl Palmer, early Bill Ward...
Good question, and good answer. For me, drummers I really like are like good lyrics: do I notice them in a positive way on a regular basis?
Bill Ward is a good call. He reminds me a bit of Keith Moon in that his playing almost seems undisciplined and reckless at times, but in a good way. Sometimes, being great at your instrument is as simple as just getting in there and playing without too much thinking, and I think that is especially true with drums.
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I didn't like Zak when he was in oasis. He wasn't the right fit. Alan first then Chris Sharrock then Zak.
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Not sure where else to post this, but I felt it needed to be shared.
Kozo Suganuma, Japanese legend and teacher of Senri Kawaguchi for 16 years and countless others passed away this morning. Senri's post about it, even through the shoddy Facebook translation, was absolutely heartbreaking.
RIP Master Kozo
Here's a vid of him...just a surreal talent...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9yh5aTNncc&ab_channel=%E6%B1%9F%E4%B8%96%E7%90%A6 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9yh5aTNncc&ab_channel=%E6%B1%9F%E4%B8%96%E7%90%A6)
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I didn't like Zak when he was in oasis. He wasn't the right fit. Alan first then Chris Sharrock then Zak.
He was great in The Who, though. That's where I first noticed him.
I'm generally not a fan of the players for whom it's an athletic event.
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I just realized I forgot Sean Reinert in my initial list and feel like an idiot for not doing so.
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I always forget about Ray Luzier as i'm not a Korn fan but RAY LUZIER.
Awesome drummer and clean living too. Always a bonus.
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Phil Collins is probably my favorite drummer of all time. His playing was masterful in the 70s, he played rock drums like a jazz drummer. Towards the 80s his style changed but remained amazing throughout. Whenever Collins played on a track, no matter with whom, the rhythmic fundament was always something special.
My other favorite drummers:
Gavin Harrison (need I say anything?)
MP
Neil Peart
Nick D'Virgilio (extremely Collins-influenced! Has anyone else noticed this? Just listen to Cinema Show and then Big Big Train's Seen Much Better Days)
Ray Hearne
Bill Bruford
Baard Kolstad
Edit: I forgot Craig Blundell. Such an amazing musician and very underappreciated. His work on Frost*'s Falling Satellites was amazing (In fact, I recommend this album to you all, I don't understand why this album isn't a modern classic!)
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Nick D'Virgilio (extremely Collins-influenced! Has anyone else noticed this? Just listen to Cinema Show and then Big Big Train's Seen Much Better Days)
Without a doubt, and Nick would tell you Collins is his biggest influence. If Portnoy is the modern Peart, NDV is the modern Collins.
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Thomas Pridgen is one of those drummers I cannot stand watching. It seems all he ever does is play on 900mph at all times. It's not impressive at all.
Chris Coleman is really good but also falls into " Solo now? OK ACTIVATE FULL SPEED "..
Speed is NOT impressive.... Tasty fills and chops and playing for the song IS.
THIS is still the most musical solo i've heard in years
Todd Sucherman on Drumeo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6NoINimNrw)
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Nick D'Virgilio (extremely Collins-influenced! Has anyone else noticed this? Just listen to Cinema Show and then Big Big Train's Seen Much Better Days)
Without a doubt, and Nick would tell you Collins is his biggest influence. If Portnoy is the modern Peart, NDV is the modern Collins.
I like all those guys, but we probably need to update "modern", given that DT's first album was in the 80s, and Spock's Beard's in the mid-90s, so they're next generation, but not current generation. I'm not sure who the closest equivalent to Peart or Collins is for more recent bands. Baard Kolstad is kind of the hot name in the last few years, but stylistically is different.
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Nick D'Virgilio (extremely Collins-influenced! Has anyone else noticed this? Just listen to Cinema Show and then Big Big Train's Seen Much Better Days)
Without a doubt, and Nick would tell you Collins is his biggest influence. If Portnoy is the modern Peart, NDV is the modern Collins.
I like all those guys, but we probably need to update "modern", given that DT's first album was in the 80s. I'm not sure who the closest equivalent to Peart is for more recent bands. Baard Kolstad is kind of the hot name in the last few years, but stylistically is different.
True, for their time they were first coming on the scene I should say. Now we are all old!
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Just watched a video of Joseph Gordon Levitt 'drumming' aka beating the living shit out of everything as hard as he possibly can.
Why do people who arent musicians ( usually actors ) think thats what drumming is ?
:facepalm: Holy hell.What's worse is - he was on a chat show and he used the house band's drumkit.
Hoping he watched it back and was like :blush oops.
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Just watched a video of Joseph Gordon Levitt 'drumming' aka beating the living shit out of everything as hard as he possibly can.
Why do people who arent musicians ( usually actors ) think thats what drumming is ?
:facepalm: Holy hell.What's worse is - he was on a chat show and he used the house band's drumkit.
Hoping he watched it back and was like :blush oops.
Based on your tastes, you should check out the video of Kozo I posted above, he has such a delicate touch.
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I saw another video but it was an actual drummer. At a drumming show. And he was doing the same. Beating the shit out of everything and jumping up and down and SCREAMING.
JFC - learn to play dipshit. Or go on stage without cocaine.
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I saw another video but it was an actual drummer. At a drumming show. And he was doing the same. Beating the shit out of everything and jumping up and down and SCREAMING.
JFC - learn to play dipshit. Or go on stage without cocaine.
Who are you referring to?
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He wasn't a big name drummer so i've no idea.
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The other reason drumming is way harder than guitar is that there are at least 40 different rudiments. And you have to start each of them at a slow tempo and work your way up.
Of course you don't have to learn all 40 but still. What is there on guitar ? Downstrokes, upstrokes, palm muting, finger picking, strumming, chicken picking, hybrid picking, tremolo picking?
Sweeps? Tapping ? But nowhere near 40...
To be an outstanding drummer you have to learn all 40 rudiments - in straight and swung timing and odd timings.
I think that - with drumming - in order to sound like a really GOOD drummer - you actually have to be GREAT . I don't think that's the case with guitar. :justjen
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Rob Beatdown Brown is also a great drummer and his YouTube lessons are so simple. I learned how to play double strokes and six stroke rolls from him.
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The other reason drumming is way harder than guitar is that there are at least 40 different rudiments. And you have to start each of them at a slow tempo and work your way up.
Of course you don't have to learn all 40 but still. What is there on guitar ? Downstrokes, upstrokes, palm muting, finger picking, strumming, chicken picking, hybrid picking, tremolo picking?
Sweeps? Tapping ? But nowhere near 40...
It's a little hard to compare, but you could say there are definitely at least 40 variations of various subtle techniques.
*Bends (microtonal, quarter-step, half-step, full-step, minor third, major third, etc., pre-bends)
*Vibrato (narrow, moderate, wide, extreme, violin-style, varying and variations in speed)
*Hammer-ons, pull-offs, trills, Holdsworth-style legato
*Slides (from below, from above, Howe frenetic)
*Harmonics (pinch, natural, tapped, harp, muted harmonic slides)
*Tapping (up to 8-10 fingers)
*Sweep picking
*Flatpicking, fingerpicking (classical, folk, including Travis and such), thumb/hybrid picking
*Tremolo picking (one string, multi-string, chordal, with electric drill)
*Whammy bar (vibrato, dips, dive bombs, ascensions, flutters, Dimebag rising harmonic squeals, lizard down throat, playing melodically)
*Palm-muting, half-muting
*Percussive muting/strumming (including the stuff guys like Fujita do)
*String rakes (reverse, narrow vs. wide)
*Flamenco strumming techniques
*Thumb fretting
*Pick slides, scratches, scrapes, taps, etc.
*Bass-style slap 'n' pop, double-thumbing
*Body percussion (particularly on acoustic)
*Plucking strings behind nut or bridge
*Bending strings behind bridge or nut
*Singing into pickups
*Usage of other devices like violin bows, screwdrivers, e-bow, funk fingers
*Manipulation of hardware (switching pickups, coil taps, volume stutters between two pickups, killswitches, volume knob swells, using tone knob like a subtle wah)
*Manipulations of effects pedals
*Various combinations of effects, whammy bar, and other techniques (Morello, Belew, EVH, elephant sounds, racecar, DJ scratching, etc.)
*Other stuff I'm not thinking about right now, this is just off the top of my head.
Of course, there are many nuances to drumming as well that aren't strictly rudiments. They both have a wide array of finesse that can be exploited and drilled.
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The other reason drumming is way harder than guitar is that there are at least 40 different rudiments. And you have to start each of them at a slow tempo and work your way up.
Of course you don't have to learn all 40 but still. What is there on guitar ? Downstrokes, upstrokes, palm muting, finger picking, strumming, chicken picking, hybrid picking, tremolo picking?
Sweeps? Tapping ? But nowhere near 40...
It's a little hard to compare, but you could say there are definitely at least 40 variations of various subtle techniques.
*Bends (microtonal, quarter-step, half-step, full-step, minor third, major third, etc., pre-bends)
*Vibrato (narrow, moderate, wide, extreme, violin-style, varying and variations in speed)
*Hammer-ons, pull-offs, trills, Holdsworth-style legato
*Slides (from below, from above, Howe frenetic)
*Harmonics (pinch, natural, tapped, harp, muted harmonic slides)
*Tapping (up to 8-10 fingers)
*Sweep picking
*Flatpicking, fingerpicking (classical, folk, including Travis and such), thumb/hybrid picking
*Tremolo picking (one string, multi-string, chordal)
*Whammy bar (vibrato, dips, dive bombs, ascensions, flutters, Dimebag rising harmonic squeals, lizard down throat, playing melodically)
*Palm-muting, half-muting
*Percussive muting/strumming (including the stuff guys like Fujita do)
*String rakes (reverse, narrow vs. wide)
*Flamenco strumming techniques
*Thumb fretting
*Pick slides, scratches, scrapes, taps, etc.
*Bass-style slap 'n' pop, double-thumbing
*Body percussion (particularly on acoustic)
*Plucking strings behind nut or bridge
*Bending strings behind bridge or nut
*Singing into pickups
*Usage of other devices like violin bows, screwdrivers, e-bow, funk fingers
*Manipulation of hardware (switching pickups, coil taps, volume stutters between two pickups, killswitches, volume knob swells)
*Manipulations of effects pedals
*Various combinations of effects, whammy bar, and other techniques (Morello, Belew, EVH, elephant sounds, racecar, DJ scratching, etc.)
*Other stuff I'm not thinking about right now, this is just off the top of my head.
Of course, there are many nuances to drumming as well that aren't strictly rudiments. They both have a wide array of finesse that can be exploited and drilled.
Don't forget the most important one...
Whahibrido pickingant.
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The other reason drumming is way harder than guitar is that there are at least 40 different rudiments. And you have to start each of them at a slow tempo and work your way up.
Of course you don't have to learn all 40 but still. What is there on guitar ? Downstrokes, upstrokes, palm muting, finger picking, strumming, chicken picking, hybrid picking, tremolo picking?
Sweeps? Tapping ? But nowhere near 40...
It's a little hard to compare, but you could say there are definitely at least 40 variations of various subtle techniques.
*Bends (microtonal, quarter-step, half-step, full-step, minor third, major third, etc., pre-bends)
*Vibrato (narrow, moderate, wide, extreme, violin-style, varying and variations in speed)
*Hammer-ons, pull-offs, trills, Holdsworth-style legato
*Slides (from below, from above, Howe frenetic)
*Harmonics (pinch, natural, tapped, harp, muted harmonic slides)
*Tapping (up to 8-10 fingers)
*Sweep picking
*Flatpicking, fingerpicking (classical, folk, including Travis and such), thumb/hybrid picking
*Tremolo picking (one string, multi-string, chordal, with electric drill)
*Whammy bar (vibrato, dips, dive bombs, ascensions, flutters, Dimebag rising harmonic squeals, lizard down throat, playing melodically)
*Palm-muting, half-muting
*Percussive muting/strumming (including the stuff guys like Fujita do)
*String rakes (reverse, narrow vs. wide)
*Flamenco strumming techniques
*Thumb fretting
*Pick slides, scratches, scrapes, taps, etc.
*Bass-style slap 'n' pop, double-thumbing
*Body percussion (particularly on acoustic)
*Plucking strings behind nut or bridge
*Bending strings behind bridge or nut
*Singing into pickups
*Usage of other devices like violin bows, screwdrivers, e-bow, funk fingers
*Manipulation of hardware (switching pickups, coil taps, volume stutters between two pickups, killswitches, volume knob swells, using tone knob like a subtle wah)
*Manipulations of effects pedals
*Various combinations of effects, whammy bar, and other techniques (Morello, Belew, EVH, elephant sounds, racecar, DJ scratching, etc.)
*Other stuff I'm not thinking about right now, this is just off the top of my head.
Of course, there are many nuances to drumming as well that aren't strictly rudiments. They both have a wide array of finesse that can be exploited and drilled.
Drill solos:
https://youtu.be/46BCpSJKIjw?t=133
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The other reason drumming is way harder than guitar is that there are at least 40 different rudiments. And you have to start each of them at a slow tempo and work your way up.
Of course you don't have to learn all 40 but still. What is there on guitar ? Downstrokes, upstrokes, palm muting, finger picking, strumming, chicken picking, hybrid picking, tremolo picking?
Sweeps? Tapping ? But nowhere near 40...
To be an outstanding drummer you have to learn all 40 rudiments - in straight and swung timing and odd timings.
I think that - with drumming - in order to sound like a really GOOD drummer - you actually have to be GREAT . I don't think that's the case with guitar. :justjen
As a drummer bro I kinda feel I have to spiritually agree with you :lol but honestly I feel that if you wanna be really proficent on any instrument it's equally hard but in diffrent ways, pure and simple. It's an interesting topic though because as a drumteacher there's definitely diffrent obstacales when learning drums compared to trumpet for example. Most of the beginner students on drums are pretty easy to get hyped since most kids can pick up a pair of sticks and "bang on the drums" however after a couple of lessons and the coordination and rythms get more complex the interest can diminish greatly. On trumpet or basically any brass instrument it's kinda reversed since it's a bit more challenging to get instant satisfaction when getting some kind of resemblance of a tone can take a few lessons or weeks before that even happens. Of course this can be diffrent between students.
Btw don't forget the world of Hybrid Rudiments! :P
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At the moment i'm pretty good at
• Singles
• Doubles ( getting there slowly )
• Triplets
• Flams /Flam taps
• Hertas
• Six Stroke Roll
• Ghost Notes / Drags
• Moeller Technique
Practicing these on a pad to a metronome has 100% improved my overall playing on the kit.
Also I just remembered Tommy Igoe - incredibly good drummer. Incredibly groovy but flashy as hell but still musical. Amazing.
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The other reason drumming is way harder than guitar is that there are at least 40 different rudiments. And you have to start each of them at a slow tempo and work your way up.
Of course you don't have to learn all 40 but still. What is there on guitar ? Downstrokes, upstrokes, palm muting, finger picking, strumming, chicken picking, hybrid picking, tremolo picking?
Sweeps? Tapping ? But nowhere near 40...
To be an outstanding drummer you have to learn all 40 rudiments - in straight and swung timing and odd timings.
I think that - with drumming - in order to sound like a really GOOD drummer - you actually have to be GREAT . I don't think that's the case with guitar. :justjen
I think you can't just say that one instrument is harder than the other. Because you can't measure the two and compare the two, like "he is at least as good on guitar as I am on drums". Doesn't work in my opinion. You can spend your entire life becoming good on any instrument.
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But some days If i'm a bit too tired and my shoulders are particularly aching - I can barely play drums at all.
I don't think i've ever picked up a guitar and not been able to play chords.
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The other reason drumming is way harder than guitar is that there are at least 40 different rudiments. And you have to start each of them at a slow tempo and work your way up.
Of course you don't have to learn all 40 but still. What is there on guitar ? Downstrokes, upstrokes, palm muting, finger picking, strumming, chicken picking, hybrid picking, tremolo picking?
Sweeps? Tapping ? But nowhere near 40...
To be an outstanding drummer you have to learn all 40 rudiments - in straight and swung timing and odd timings.
I think that - with drumming - in order to sound like a really GOOD drummer - you actually have to be GREAT . I don't think that's the case with guitar. :justjen
Rudiments are overrated. Not that they aren’t helpful with playing, but the idea that you have to learn your rudiments before you can play songs is silly to me. You can learn them within the context of a song, and if anything that will help them click better as you’ll be hearing them and feeling them in a more musical context. For example, my friend, who is a brilliant drummer, wrote a drum part in 7/8 that is based around two paradiddles and a paradiddlediddle (RLRR LRLL RLRRLL), but nobody listening is hearing his rudiments, what they’re hearing is how the alternating hi-hat and snare hits create an odd time drum part that grooves. Sure you can break it down and try to use it as an example of why you need to know your rudiments, but I can also play the groove up to speed and I have never once practiced my rudiments, and don’t really know any outside of singles, flams, and paradiddles.
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Not that they aren’t helpful with playing, but the idea that you have to learn your rudiments before you can play songs is silly to me.
You are clearly not cut out to study the tabla (nor am I for that matter). Many teachers don't let you even touch the instrument itself for the first few years, it's all hand and vocal percussion study.
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Paradiddles and flams; I feel like all drum techniques are made-up words to mess with non-drummers. Or make them giggle. :) :)
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Yes. I use rudiments primarily to warm up before I play.
They have 100% improved my all around playing. But i'm not interested in learning all 40 rudiments matched, trad, French, German etc etc.
There's no point.
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Not that they aren’t helpful with playing, but the idea that you have to learn your rudiments before you can play songs is silly to me.
You are clearly not cut out to study the tabla (nor am I for that matter). Many teachers don't let you even touch the instrument itself for the first few years, it's all hand and vocal percussion study.
Hand percussion isn’t really my thing. My fingers have calluses built up because I’m primarily a bass player, but my palms, not so much. I can fake bongos and congas, but after a few minutes my hands are dead.
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Paradiddles and flams; I feel like all drum techniques are made-up words to mess with non-drummers. Or make them giggle. :) :)
The pataflafla is my personal favorite of the nonsense words drummers have used for the rudiments. That, and ratamacue.
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The other reason drumming is way harder than guitar is that there are at least 40 different rudiments. And you have to start each of them at a slow tempo and work your way up.
Of course you don't have to learn all 40 but still. What is there on guitar ? Downstrokes, upstrokes, palm muting, finger picking, strumming, chicken picking, hybrid picking, tremolo picking?
Sweeps? Tapping ? But nowhere near 40...
To be an outstanding drummer you have to learn all 40 rudiments - in straight and swung timing and odd timings.
I think that - with drumming - in order to sound like a really GOOD drummer - you actually have to be GREAT . I don't think that's the case with guitar. :justjen
Rudiments are overrated. Not that they aren’t helpful with playing, but the idea that you have to learn your rudiments before you can play songs is silly to me. You can learn them within the context of a song, and if anything that will help them click better as you’ll be hearing them and feeling them in a more musical context. For example, my friend, who is a brilliant drummer, wrote a drum part in 7/8 that is based around two paradiddles and a paradiddlediddle (RLRR LRLL RLRRLL), but nobody listening is hearing his rudiments, what they’re hearing is how the alternating hi-hat and snare hits create an odd time drum part that grooves. Sure you can break it down and try to use it as an example of why you need to know your rudiments, but I can also play the groove up to speed and I have never once practiced my rudiments, and don’t really know any outside of singles, flams, and paradiddles.
I feel the same way. I thought guitar to many children when I studied music and I didn't always agree with the ways universities tell you how to teach an instrument during pedagogy or didactics classes. I felt like the professors there always assumed every 8 year old student would one day become a professional virtuoso and that's why you have to teach them dry techniques which they then have to practice 26 hours per day. Every millimeter of their posture had to be perfect and every note had to be played meticulously with the correct fingering. I agree that technique is very important for learning any instrument. But many of my students came to me and (for example) said they were scouts and just wanted to play a few songs on the guitar when his scouts group sits next to a camp fire. Of course I had to teach them some techniques, but I wouldn't start teaching them tapping, sweeping or the scales of the melodic minor system. I thought them different strumming techniques and the usual chords. Now if they wanted to learn more technical stuff afterwards, of course I would have been happy to help them with that, but never if they didn't want to. By teaching overly technical stuff, you only rob them of the fun and motivation to play the instrument and they would probably quit after 4 months.
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What always makes me laugh is when (for example) people think Hendrix was 'even more omg amazing' cause he couldnt read or write music...
:lolpalm: that means F.A.
Being able to read notation does not automatically make you a better musician... Nor does knowing theory.
You're either a good songwriter or you're not.
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I've been playing drums since around 1995 or so and i've never once played the In The Air Tonight fill.
Is it sacrilege ? :hat
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I've been playing drums since around 1995 or so and i've never once played the In The Air Tonight fill.
Is it sacrilege ? :hat
Yes.
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I don't share the same thought process of rudiments being unecessary or overrated. They server a purpose of open up your vocabulary and free your hands to do whatever you want in a creative way. It's fun to find ways of implementing rudiments on the drumset in beats or fills.
I treat them as a way of handling and solving diffrent sticking problems that may hinder whatever you wanna do creatively. Besides if you deem certain things unecessary before learning them you're deliberately hinder your progress which dosen't sound fun to me at all. Sure I can't play all the 40 standard rudiments at whatever tempo but that's on me and I would never say I wouldn't benefit from doing that.
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Can Lars play any rudiment apart from singles and flams?
Probably not.
Is he in possibly the biggest rock band on the planet ?
Yes.
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Can Lars play any rudiment apart from singles and flams?
Probably not.
Is he in possibly the biggest rock band on the planet ?
Yes.
:lol I......don't know how to answer that.
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It means that the songs are important not the rudiments.
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It means that the songs are important not the rudiments.
You know if you don't wanna practice your rudiments, just say so. :laugh: Don't look for excuses to not do it.
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Yeah that's exactly what I said.
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It means that the songs are important not the rudiments.
Of course the songs are important but the foundation and technique is what dictates what you CAN do not what you must do. It just opens up more ideas that can benefit YOUR playing and make it more interesting for you. You can incorporate rudiments and technical things in a musical way that servs the songs but you don't have too also. I feel that's an empowering thing.
To just say "the songs are more important" therefore I shouldn't practice "insert whatever" dosen't make any sense to me. "The one does not exclude the other" :)
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• should you practice your instrument - YES
• does knowing all 40 rudiments make you a better songwriter ? - NO
i'm not sure whats unclear about this.
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• should you practice your instrument - YES
• does knowing all 40 rudiments make you a better songwriter ? - NO
i'm not sure whats unclear about this.
Better songwriter, no.
Better player, yes.
I believe thats his point.
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:lolpalm: that goes without saying PLUS I already said it does as i've noticed it myself.
I practice rudiments to warm up and improve my playing but I know i'll never be Thomas Lang so I don't bother trying to be.
I want to improve and play healthily but i'm not obsessed with it.
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:lolpalm: that goes without saying PLUS I already said it does as i've noticed it myself.
I practice rudiments to warm up and improve my playing but I know i'll never be Thomas Lang so I don't bother trying to be.
I want to improve and play healthily but i'm not obsessed with it.
I agree with you there. And at the end of the day alot of these badass drummers resort to fills that are essentially just some form of “RLKK RLKK RLRLRLKK RLRLRLKK” anyway, which is shit I was good at from playing along to Dream Theater, Opeth, Symphony X, Animals As Leaders, ect as a kid. So I dont waste time practicing every form of paradiddle either.
I feel like “walking the dog” on the ride and developing the heel-toe double bass machine gun thing are way more important skills for todays rock/metal scenes.
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I'm way more into feel than chops any way.
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• should you practice your instrument - YES
• does knowing all 40 rudiments make you a better songwriter ? - NO
i'm not sure whats unclear about this.
Better songwriter, no.
Better player, yes.
I believe thats his point.
Sry Kotowboy, I wasn't trying to be snarky. Maybe my point got lost in translation or anything. Not my native tounge but PROGdrummer nailed the gist of it.
Healthy practicing, i'm all for that and practice whatever you want that's what makes the instrument fun. Rudimets are only a tool but it's how you implement it in your playing that makes it interesting.
One dosen't have to become Thomas Lang to enjoy rudiments like "Inverted Flam Cheese" but it's fun to try. :lol