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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: TheOutlawXanadu on September 01, 2010, 01:01:24 PM

Title: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on September 01, 2010, 01:01:24 PM
Gut reaction. What is the answer to this question?

There are a million guidelines that could be set here. What counts as metal? Am I talking about studio albums only? Etc.

Just answer with whatever comes to mind first.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: 73109 on September 01, 2010, 01:01:45 PM
Metallica
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: True Death of Life on September 01, 2010, 01:02:27 PM
Seconded.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Sigz on September 01, 2010, 01:02:32 PM
First thought: Opeth.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: King Postwhore on September 01, 2010, 01:02:43 PM
Iron Maiden
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Zantera on September 01, 2010, 01:03:26 PM
First thought: Opeth.

This.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gorille85 on September 01, 2010, 01:06:37 PM
First thought: Opeth.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: MetalManiac666 on September 01, 2010, 01:07:13 PM
Dream Theater
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: bosk1 on September 01, 2010, 01:07:19 PM
Metallica

That was my initial gut reaction.  But as I thought through it, I don't really view what they've done in the last 20 years as very good or groundbreaking in any way, shape, or form.  To me, there was a serious dropoff in quality after the Black album, and one really solid album in the last 20 years doesn't earn them "best" by any standards.

Honestly, I would have to go with DT.  They obviously have not had as huge an influence on the metal scene as a more mainstream metal band.  But the sheer volume and quality of music they've put out in the past 20 years destroys what anybody else has done.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: zxlkho on September 01, 2010, 01:09:19 PM
First thought was Opeth, second was Dream Theater. I can't really decide.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Arcaeus on September 01, 2010, 01:13:12 PM
I don't consider there to be a best anything when it comes to music, really, but my favorite is Pain of Salvation.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: El Barto on September 01, 2010, 01:22:57 PM
Metallica

That was my initial gut reaction.  But as I thought through it, I don't really view what they've done in the last 20 years as very good or groundbreaking in any way, shape, or form.  To me, there was a serious dropoff in quality after the Black album, and one really solid album in the last 20 years doesn't earn them "best" by any standards.

Honestly, I would have to go with DT.  They obviously have not had as huge an influence on the metal scene as a more mainstream metal band.  But the sheer volume and quality of music they've put out in the past 20 years destroys what anybody else has done.
Similar opinion.  My issue isn't the quality of Metallica's music, which while certainly not as strong is often times still quite good.  I just consider them an 80s band more than anything else.  I take the question to be referring to bands from the 90's on. 

As for my pick, I'd probably go with DT, though Tool would easily take it if they were even slightly more prolific.  4 albums in 20 years doesn't hold up favorably to DT's 10 plus live albums and DVDs.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Ultimetalhead on September 01, 2010, 01:26:07 PM
My first thought was Nevermore, but on second thought it's probably DT or Opeth.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: LudwigVan on September 01, 2010, 01:36:44 PM
Dream Theater
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: yeshaberto on September 01, 2010, 01:39:27 PM
DT
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Adami on September 01, 2010, 01:49:01 PM
Whatever Devin Townsend has done. I know he has like 5 different solo band names, so I'm just saying him.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: FiberglassMoon on September 01, 2010, 01:50:35 PM
Easily DT

Then Iced Earth then Opeth
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: moffatt on September 01, 2010, 01:54:37 PM
DT
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: orcus116 on September 01, 2010, 01:55:02 PM
Hard to say since I've been straying away from metal these past few years. I'm surprised to see DT getting so many votes (though this is DTF) considering the metal sections in their songs are fairly run of the mill as far as metal goes. Now if they were cranking out Mastodon style riffs...
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: lateralus88 on September 01, 2010, 01:56:06 PM
Iron Maiden
You do know how long Maiden has been around, right?


Also my gut reaction is Nevermore, followed by Strapping Young Lad.


DT and Opeth never register to me as just "metal". But that's just me being a prog-snob.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Bombardana on September 01, 2010, 01:56:09 PM
OPETH
 IS THE CORRECT ANSWER.
actually i don't know but they are definitely among the best them and have a very consistently good output
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Zantera on September 01, 2010, 02:12:19 PM
I don't consider there to be a best anything when it comes to music, really, but my favorite is Pain of Salvation.

Would you classify PoS as a metal-band? :P
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Marvellous G on September 01, 2010, 02:14:21 PM
Tool. If not, still Metallica for me.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: yorost on September 01, 2010, 02:25:31 PM
Dream Theater, possibly Opeth, for me.  Metallica just doesn't fit the bill when you say the last 20 years.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: BRGM on September 01, 2010, 02:33:04 PM
Dream Theater! there's really no other metal kinda band that I listen too
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: zxlkho on September 01, 2010, 02:36:03 PM
Tool is a very good pick for this. They totally slipped my mind earlier...
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: King Postwhore on September 01, 2010, 02:52:50 PM
Iron Maiden
You do know how long Maiden has been around, right?


Also my gut reaction is Nevermore, followed by Strapping Young Lad.


DT and Opeth never register to me as just "metal". But that's just me being a prog-snob.
And they've been playing the last 20 years.  That was my gut reaction like he asked. If it's strictly bands that just came out the last 20 years, I'd pick, DT, Opeth & Tool.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: lateralus88 on September 01, 2010, 02:56:03 PM
That was my assumption, King.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: King Postwhore on September 01, 2010, 02:59:33 PM
That was my assumption, King.

You read me like a book. :laugh:
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Adami on September 01, 2010, 03:02:16 PM
That was my assumption, King.

You read me like a book. :laugh:

And I read you like a porno.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: TL on September 01, 2010, 03:05:19 PM
If we're going with what any particular band has done in the last 20 years, I'd definitely go with Dream Theater.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: King Postwhore on September 01, 2010, 03:05:45 PM
That was my assumption, King.

You read me like a book. :laugh:

And I read you like a porno.

I'm on top.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: glaurung on September 01, 2010, 03:07:21 PM
Dream Theater or Opeth I guess.

If the question was best metal band of the past 30 years I would have to say Iron Maiden. But without their 80's output I don't think they make the cut.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ehra on September 01, 2010, 03:09:20 PM
They still might be too new a discovery for me for this to be a fair decision, but my gut reaction is still Strapping Young Lad.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gadough on September 01, 2010, 03:10:11 PM
First thought before I even clicked the thread was Nevermore. But I guess I would say Opeth as well, I just didn't think they should be called "metal" in the same way we categorize bands like Nevermore and Metallica.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: skydivingninja on September 01, 2010, 03:13:41 PM
I didn't really have a "gut reaction" when I saw this thread.  You've got plenty of good contenders in Opeth, Tool, Maiden, Cynic, and Mastodon.  But I have to go with Mastodon.  Seriously, go listen to "Megalodon" and when THAT riff hits you like a ton of bricks, your life will be forever changed.  Not to mention the greatness of "Leviathan" and "Crack the Skye."
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: DarkEternalNight on September 01, 2010, 07:08:43 PM
No Meshuggah? I am disappoint.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ScioPath on September 01, 2010, 07:10:52 PM
No Meshuggah? I am disappoint.

They're great, but I doubt people automatically think of them when asked for the BEST metal band.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Bombardana on September 01, 2010, 07:12:42 PM
No Meshuggah? I am disappoint.

They're great, but I doubt people automatically think of them when asked for the BEST metal band.
I seriously considered them
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gadough on September 01, 2010, 07:55:18 PM
No Meshuggah? I am disappoint.

They're great, but I doubt people automatically think of them when asked for the BEST metal band.

I know I sure as hell don't.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Birch Boy on September 01, 2010, 07:59:33 PM
Iron Maiden

Dream Theater
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Quadrochosis on September 01, 2010, 08:07:41 PM
Opeth
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 01, 2010, 08:27:27 PM
The Lord Weird Slough Feg. Not as popular as the other bands mentioned in this thread, but they don't have a single bad album.

As for other bands mentioned in this thread?

- Don't like Mastodon, they've always bored me.
- Opeth's recent stuff has been really dull (But I really like their early stuff)
- I've never cared for Devin Townsend or any of his projects, they're quite overrated as far as I'm concerned
- Still love Maiden, but strictly comparing their 90's/00's output, it isn't quite as good as Slough Feg.
- I haven't like anything Metallica has done (outside of a few songs) since 1988.
- While 90's Dream Theater kicks all kinds of ass, 00's DT isn't quite as impressive. Its not terrible, just doesn't wow me.

Slough Feg's music is just sex. Imagine an orgy between Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, and Thin Lizzy and the sweet birthchild that resulted from it and that would be Slough Feg. I'm surprised this board doesn't talk about them that much >_>

If you're interested, check out Traveler, Down Among the Deadmen, and Hardworlder. Three of their best albums imo
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gorille85 on September 01, 2010, 08:28:47 PM
Ghost Reveries and Watershed are flawless records.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 01, 2010, 08:30:28 PM
Ghost Reveries and Watershed are flawless records.

Those albums honestly bored me to sleep, no offense.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: zxlkho on September 01, 2010, 08:32:07 PM
Wow.... Didn't see that one coming from anyone, especially here on DTF.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Sigz on September 01, 2010, 08:32:28 PM
Imagine an orgy between Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, and Thin Lizzy

Well, now I know to never ever listen to this band.


Ghost Reveries and Watershed are flawless records.

I wouldn't call them flawless, but they're both good albums, GR being fantastic.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Arcaeus on September 01, 2010, 08:34:45 PM
Imagine an orgy between Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, and Thin Lizzy

Well, now I know to never ever listen to this band.


Ghost Reveries and Watershed are flawless records.

I wouldn't call them flawless, but they're both good albums, GR being fantastic.

These. And GR and Watershed are certainly flawed and don't come in a mile radius of Still Life and Blackwater Park's greatness.

I'm going to put forward another band: Agalloch
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: zxlkho on September 01, 2010, 08:37:23 PM
In my opinion, it's a little early to say that about Agalloch. Ashes Against the Grain might be one of the best metal records in the last 20 years though.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gadough on September 01, 2010, 08:44:10 PM
Ghost Reveries is one of the handful of albums I would call absolutely flawless. I wouldn't change a single thing about that album if I was given the opportunity to do so.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 01, 2010, 08:51:19 PM
Imagine an orgy between Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, and Thin Lizzy

Well, now I know to never ever listen to this band.

You are a terrible person.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Sigz on September 01, 2010, 08:52:17 PM
I know.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 01, 2010, 08:54:23 PM
I know.
At least you're not in denial.

But you're still missing out on the best music of the past 20 years.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gorille85 on September 01, 2010, 08:58:22 PM
lol
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Arcaeus on September 01, 2010, 08:58:52 PM
lol
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 01, 2010, 09:04:28 PM
lol

(https://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/040/447/original/Haters_gonna_hate.jpg)
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Zook on September 01, 2010, 10:40:20 PM
Clearly there isn't enough growls, screams, oinks, gurgles, shrieks, and Trigonometry for them to be the best metal band of the past 20 years.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: orcus116 on September 01, 2010, 11:11:07 PM
Personally I'm all about bands that use Taylor Polynomials.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: cthrubuoy on September 02, 2010, 12:43:45 AM
First thought: Opeth.

This is the correct answer.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: PowerSlave on September 02, 2010, 01:37:25 AM
Bruce Dickinson

In my opinion, Accident of Birth and Chemical Wedding are the best two metal albums to come out in the last two decades and Tyrrany of Souls isn't too shabby itself.

I know that the topic is "metal band" but, he had the same line-up on these two albums and their output was simply amazing. Quality above quantity.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Fluffy Lothario on September 02, 2010, 02:24:08 AM
Opeth

Tool and Machine Head are also up there.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: wolfking on September 02, 2010, 02:25:57 AM
Here's some that I think have made a real impact;

Tool
Death
Dream Theater
In Flames
Opeth
Pantera
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: cthrubuoy on September 02, 2010, 03:08:38 AM
Here's some that I think have made a real impact;

Tool
Death
Dream Theater
In Flames
Opeth
Pantera

I completely agree with all of these.

Except Death.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: wolfking on September 02, 2010, 05:05:25 AM
Here's some that I think have made a real impact;

Tool
Death
Dream Theater
In Flames
Opeth
Pantera

I completely agree with all of these.

Except Death.

Nah Death were pretty influential IMO, Chuck laid the blueprint for Death metal.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: cthrubuoy on September 02, 2010, 05:21:06 AM
Influential =/= best
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: wolfking on September 02, 2010, 05:27:35 AM
Influential =/= best

I'd say they are one of the best, nobody did death metal like Chuck did.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: skydivingninja on September 02, 2010, 05:52:19 AM
:facepalm: snip

I know who can take Darkes7's place and create the Sinister Six of Failure now!

Listening to a TWLSF song now, actually, but not seeing anything really mindblowing, though it isn't bad.  Singer sounds kind of nasally though, like a worse Daniel Gildenlol.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Bombardana on September 02, 2010, 06:14:50 AM
No Meshuggah? I am disappoint.

They're great, but I doubt people automatically think of them when asked for the BEST metal band.

I know I sure as hell don't.
(https://i44.tinypic.com/10nxl5d.jpg)
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ZKX-2099 on September 02, 2010, 06:34:21 AM
30 years = Metallica
20 years = Dream Theater
10 years = Avenged Sevenfold
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: wolfking on September 02, 2010, 06:35:02 AM
10 years = Avenged Sevenfold

No.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: InTheNameOfGod on September 02, 2010, 06:39:53 AM
Gonna have to give it to Opeth -


    * Orchid (1995) 8/10
    * Morningrise (1996) 9/10
    * My Arms, Your Hearse (1998) 9/10
    * Still Life (1999) 10/10
    * Blackwater Park (2001) 10/10
    * Deliverance (2002) 9/10
    * Damnation (2003) 9/10
    * Ghost Reveries (2005) 9/10
    * Watershed (2008) 9/10


I dare someone to give me a more epic/more consistant metal discography than that.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: AwakeFromOctavarium on September 02, 2010, 06:46:13 AM
No other bands can do it like Opeth.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ? on September 02, 2010, 07:27:59 AM
DT or Opeth is my answer. Amorphis and Sonata Arctica have been very good too.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 02, 2010, 07:28:26 AM
:facepalm: snip

I know who can take Darkes7's place and create the Sinister Six of Failure now!

Listening to a TWLSF song now, actually, but not seeing anything really mindblowing, though it isn't bad.  Singer sounds kind of nasally though, like a worse Daniel Gildenlol.

You are a bad person.

But seriously, that's the charm of Mike Scalzi. Its their whole style that I love. They don't really take themselves seriously and have an awesome time playing heavy metal. Maybe I'm just a Scalzi fanboy but he's one of my favorite singers of all time.

I'M A SPACE PIRATE AND YOU KNOW MY NAME
ASTEROID MINING IS A DANGEROUS GAME
IMPERIAL NAVY CAN'T KEEP UP MY PACE
CHASING A ROCK INTO ZHODANI SPAAAAAACE!

ONE-THOUSAND CREDITS IS MY HUMBLE PRICE
WHETHER IT'S NICKEL, IRON, STONE OR ICE
ONLY THE WAYFARING PATRON WOULD DARE
A MERCHANT CRUISER, A SKYWAY CORSAAAAAAAAAAIR!

*Epic riffing*

 :metal

And yes, controversial opinions time :neverusethis:

Morbid Angel > Death by a lot, and I like Death.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: AwakeFromOctavarium on September 02, 2010, 07:54:37 AM
Those are funny rhymes. :lol
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 02, 2010, 08:01:46 AM
Part of the reason I love Slough Feg. I'm not really big on lyrics, but more often than not, SF's tend to be rather humorous. Plus they did a cover of a Horslips song, which is extra awesome!
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: MetalManiac666 on September 02, 2010, 01:04:25 PM
Meshuggah would probably be my #2.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: skydivingninja on September 02, 2010, 02:05:58 PM
I'd also like to mention in the songs I heard that I heard none of the bands you mentioned in describing them 7th Son.  And you fail more because of your opinions of those other bands than your love of TWLSF.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: LTE on September 02, 2010, 04:19:04 PM
Meshuggah.
Completely and objectively win.

Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 02, 2010, 04:35:49 PM
I'd also like to mention in the songs I heard that I heard none of the bands you mentioned in describing them 7th Son.  And you fail more because of your opinions of those other bands than your love of TWLSF.

If you can't hear Thin Lizzy in Slough Feg...  :|
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: orcus116 on September 02, 2010, 04:40:54 PM
Does anyone actually know what Thin Lizzy sounds like?
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Quadrochosis on September 02, 2010, 04:57:34 PM
Does anyone actually know what Thin Lizzy sounds like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FmPhJkdTwU
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: King Postwhore on September 02, 2010, 04:59:12 PM
Does anyone actually know what Thin Lizzy sounds like?
Us old fogey's do.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: skydivingninja on September 02, 2010, 05:17:44 PM
Better song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMFYs3gfgis
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: wolfking on September 02, 2010, 05:36:57 PM
Does anyone actually know what Thin Lizzy sounds like?

Yes, they sound fucking amazing!!!!  :metal
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Birch Boy on September 02, 2010, 05:50:47 PM
Does anyone actually know what Thin Lizzy sounds like?

Yes, they sound fucking amazing!!!!  :metal
This
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: MykeHavoc on September 02, 2010, 05:56:05 PM
Nevermore
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: TAC on September 02, 2010, 06:09:10 PM
The Lord Weird Slough Feg. Not as popular as the other bands mentioned in this thread, but they don't have a single bad album.

Never f##king heard of them..  but I just checked a couple of youtube clips, albeit through my phone, but this will need more investigating..thanks for the recommendation.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Birch Boy on September 02, 2010, 06:19:11 PM
The Lord Weird Slough Feg. Not as popular as the other bands mentioned in this thread, but they don't have a single bad album.

Never f##king heard of them..  but I just checked a couple of youtube clips, albeit through my phone, but this will need more investigating..thanks for the recommendation.
I'm surprised you've never heard of them TAC!
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: LTE on September 02, 2010, 06:44:36 PM
Meshuggah- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J4Ye7nRT0s
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: sneakyblueberry on September 02, 2010, 07:51:52 PM
Iron Maiden

First thought
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: sneakyblueberry on September 02, 2010, 07:56:35 PM
Bruce Dickinson

In my opinion, Accident of Birth and Chemical Wedding are the best two metal albums to come out in the last two decades and Tyrrany of Souls isn't too shabby itself.

I know that the topic is "metal band" but, he had the same line-up on these two albums and their output was simply amazing. Quality above quantity.

I agree that CW is, Accident has a little too much filler for my liking.  Don't forget that every Bruce album pre-Tribe of Gypsies were pretty average.  From my perspective anyway.  Accident - CW - TOS is a brilliant 3 album run.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 02, 2010, 08:01:30 PM
Moar Slough Feg:

Baltech's Lament: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY4TNvmchBg

Brave Connor Mac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owvazvyd6QM

Aw yeah, getting into SF's folky side here^


Sea Wolf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgPNU8uH4pA

Dearg Doom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n3oZyxjDoo&feature=related


^Definitely my favorite SF song. Just holy crap so goddamn catchy.

WHEN THE STARS GO OUT
YOU CAN HEAR ME SHOUT
TWO HEADS ARE BETTER THAN NONE
BUT ONE-HUNDRED HEADS ARE BETTER THAN NONE!

 :metal

Ape Uprising: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwPfBm84fMU

^ SF doesn't do a lot of "epic" type of songs, but this is a moment where they take the chance to do one, and I personally love it. But I suppose "Your mileage may vary" would apply here.

Sky Chariots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDgAAQBlANs

I'd post more but I think I've posted enough vids for now ^_^

Does anyone actually know what Thin Lizzy sounds like?
Anyone that likes good music does.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: MetalManiac666 on September 02, 2010, 10:24:48 PM
Meshuggah- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J4Ye7nRT0s

Excellent choice. :tup
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: PowerSlave on September 03, 2010, 12:29:05 AM
Bruce Dickinson

In my opinion, Accident of Birth and Chemical Wedding are the best two metal albums to come out in the last two decades and Tyrrany of Souls isn't too shabby itself.

I know that the topic is "metal band" but, he had the same line-up on these two albums and their output was simply amazing. Quality above quantity.

I agree that CW is, Accident has a little too much filler for my liking.  Don't forget that every Bruce album pre-Tribe of Gypsies were pretty average.  From my perspective anyway.  Accident - CW - TOS is a brilliant 3 album run.

I think that there's some good stuff on Balls to Picasso(laughing in the hiding bush, tears of the dragon) but, the over all production of the album makes it suffer. It could be argued that it's also a ToG album also, though. And the first three tracks on Skunkworks are really great songs but, that album gets a lot of slack because it's so much different.

The first solo album......meh....not very good at all.

I really like the Halford albums as well. In my opinion, Roy Z makes any project that he's a part of that much better by his presence alone lol...
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Mladen on September 03, 2010, 03:59:36 AM
Dream Theater
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Fuzzboy on September 03, 2010, 04:03:15 AM
Meshuggah- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J4Ye7nRT0s

This song is robot-porn music. I love it.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: PixelDream on September 03, 2010, 06:14:19 AM
Opeth, although I don't really like Metal that much anymore. I can hear why I was drooling over it years ago, but that's it. So I can't really give a very valid opinion I guess. But Opeth (along with some others) are definately stayers.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Zydar on September 03, 2010, 06:14:53 AM
Dream Theater
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Moonchild on September 03, 2010, 08:26:25 AM
Linkin Park  :chill


 :corn
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: MetalManiac666 on September 03, 2010, 09:13:06 AM
lol
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gorille85 on September 03, 2010, 09:16:38 AM
Linkin Park
(https://img840.imageshack.us/img840/64/pensivecatisnotsureabou.jpg) (https://img840.imageshack.us/i/pensivecatisnotsureabou.jpg/)
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Birch Boy on September 03, 2010, 12:26:31 PM
>implying Linkin Park is metal
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: skydivingninja on September 03, 2010, 12:29:08 PM
Damn, I might have to revise my Mastodon opinion.  Would it be fair to say Devin Townsend as a solo artist?  Meaning HAARHT, City, his solo stuff, DTB, and DTP.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 03, 2010, 12:54:29 PM
>implying Linkin Park is metal
>Implying Linkin Park is good
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ThroughHerEyesDude6 on September 03, 2010, 01:36:18 PM
First band that came to mind is Mastodon
Then Tool
Then Opeth
Then Mastodon
Then Opeth
Then Tool
Then Opeth
Then Mastodon
Then Opeth
Then Mastodon
Then Opeth...

Opeth is my answer
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Birch Boy on September 03, 2010, 02:21:18 PM
Tool is another good choice

>implying Linkin Park is metal
>Implying Linkin Park is good
No I wasn't
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 03, 2010, 02:24:16 PM
Tool is another good choice

>implying Linkin Park is metal
>Implying Linkin Park is good
No I wasn't

Not you, the person that mentioned LP in the first place.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Birch Boy on September 03, 2010, 02:25:57 PM
Tool is another good choice

>implying Linkin Park is metal
>Implying Linkin Park is good
No I wasn't

Not you, the person that mentioned LP in the first place.
Ah, then in that case I replace my "No I wasn't" with "This"
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Perpetual Change on September 03, 2010, 06:21:27 PM
My gut reaction is "Dream Theater," followed by an insecure "but what will the metal purists say?" Then again, plenty of people are voting for Mastadon, Tool and Opeth, so who really gives a damn what the metal purists say ;)

But anyway, Dream Theater are one of the few metal bands to come out since the 90s (yes, I know they actually formed earlier but no-one knew who they were until the 90s) who've been able to carry the torch for metal. I also think DT have managed to be pretty darn influential on the world scale, and have actually added to what the genre of metal can mean.  I doubt there would be as much Symphonic, Progressive and Power metal if it weren't for Dream Theater. I also doubt there'd be as many bands like BtBaM and so on.

So yeah, Dream Theater.

Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: orcus116 on September 03, 2010, 06:38:31 PM
I think you're greatly exaggerating their influence. And adding to the genre? Their metal sections are pretty damn by the books in comparison to other metal bands. I can see why you want to pick them because of those bands you mentioned but I mean Opeth actually has made some genuinely great metal and Mastodon right now (at least Crack The Skye) is writing the type of riffs that Dream Theater has the capacity to do but just won't. They're being way more creative with the genre now than Dream Theater has in a very, very long time.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Zeltar on September 03, 2010, 06:47:41 PM
Metallica was my gut reaction. Then after I thought about it for a few minutes, my answer is still Metallica.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ACID_FOX on September 03, 2010, 07:22:59 PM
Gonna have to go with Tool.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 03, 2010, 07:32:49 PM
I think you're greatly exaggerating their influence. And adding to the genre? Their metal sections are pretty damn by the books in comparison to other metal bands. I can see why you want to pick them because of those bands you mentioned but I mean Opeth actually has made some genuinely great metal and Mastodon right now (at least Crack The Skye) is writing the type of riffs that Dream Theater has the capacity to do but just won't. They're being way more creative with the genre now than Dream Theater has in a very, very long time.

I strongly disagree, I never found Mastodon to be really creative at all, and later day Opeth is very stale for me. I do agree that DT needs to be a lot more creative though. I'm hoping they can only get better. Black Clouds was good, but I can't help but feel they're leaving something on the table with that release. Maybe they do need some kind of tension to stir the pot and come up with something truly great.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: skydivingninja on September 03, 2010, 09:53:51 PM
Crack the Skye is one of the most musically unique albums of all time.  OF ALL TIME.  Its a huge experiment for them and the rest of the metal world, to be shown what can be done with all of Mastodon's wide range of influences.  It actually makes me sad when I look forward to their next album, because they've reached their zenith.  Everything else will be compared to CTS forever unless by some miracle they make a better album, which would be the greatest achievement in metal history as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: In The Wake Of Poseidon on September 03, 2010, 10:29:37 PM
It actually makes me sad when I look forward to their next album, because they've reached their zenith.  Everything else will be compared to CTS forever unless by some miracle they make a better album, which would be the greatest achievement in metal history as far as I'm concerned.
Replace this with Blood Mountain and I might agree.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Sigz on September 03, 2010, 10:55:07 PM
I think you're greatly exaggerating their influence.

Agreed. I'd certainly say that bands like BTBAM would probably be in a different place, but that influence hardly extends outside the prog world.

But either way, the question is best band, not most influential.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: In The Wake Of Poseidon on September 03, 2010, 11:17:16 PM
I would say that DT's influence in metal is pretty large, I mean, they pretty much one of the first bands out there to do Progressive Metal. Nearly everything progressive metal related in the last 10 years has something to owe to DT.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: orcus116 on September 04, 2010, 12:09:12 AM
I can't agree with the results, though. At immediate look, the bands that base themselves off of DT (Pagans Mind, Circus Maximus) don't do much aside from establish themselves as clone bands and do absolutely nothing for the genre. Then look at the effect on a band like BTBAM. They did great with Colors when they used their own sound and tried to get more technical, almost Dream Theater like. Then came along The Great Misdirect when they incorporated that sound as their main priority and it turned out really bad. Granted that's not really a fault of Dream Theater but their imitators haven't really done shit to progress the music passed the point at which they already brought it to.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: In The Wake Of Poseidon on September 04, 2010, 12:35:02 AM
But that can happen  to anything really. Look at something like WoW, it has no doubt had a huge influence on video games. Yet, every MMO that has come out recently has been a WoW clone, with a few exceptions. There are always going to be imitators, and there will always be the man who tries to does his own thing, while still having a influence set by the previous standard.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Sigz on September 04, 2010, 12:45:01 AM
I still don't see how being influential has anything to do with being 'the best', or even quality in general.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gadough on September 04, 2010, 12:59:07 AM
I still don't see how being influential has anything to do with being 'the best', or even quality in general.

I agree.

I love Black Sabbath. I love Tony Iommi. But I rage my face off every time Sabbath tops a "Greatest Metal Bands" list and Iommi tops a "Greatest Metal Guitarists" list. Yeah, they influenced everyone who followed them and were incredibly important to the formation of the genre. But that sure as shit doesn't make them the best. There are countless metal bands that formed in their wake, and thanks to Sabbath opening the door for them, are much better bands. Yet Sabbath still tops those lists, because people can't make the distinction between influence and quality for some bizarre reason. It's really quite a simple concept.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Fluffy Lothario on September 04, 2010, 01:09:10 AM
Either that, or they really like Sabbath, and consider them the best.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: In The Wake Of Poseidon on September 04, 2010, 01:44:43 AM
I still don't see how being influential has anything to do with being 'the best', or even quality in general.
It doesn't, I was just commenting on a comments made earlier.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: sneakyblueberry on September 04, 2010, 06:14:45 AM
Bruce Dickinson

In my opinion, Accident of Birth and Chemical Wedding are the best two metal albums to come out in the last two decades and Tyrrany of Souls isn't too shabby itself.

I know that the topic is "metal band" but, he had the same line-up on these two albums and their output was simply amazing. Quality above quantity.

I agree that CW is, Accident has a little too much filler for my liking.  Don't forget that every Bruce album pre-Tribe of Gypsies were pretty average.  From my perspective anyway.  Accident - CW - TOS is a brilliant 3 album run.

I think that there's some good stuff on Balls to Picasso(laughing in the hiding bush, tears of the dragon) but, the over all production of the album makes it suffer. It could be argued that it's also a ToG album also, though. And the first three tracks on Skunkworks are really great songs but, that album gets a lot of slack because it's so much different.

The first solo album......meh....not very good at all.

I really like the Halford albums as well. In my opinion, Roy Z makes any project that he's a part of that much better by his presence alone lol...

yeah I was counting Balls... as a Gypsies album
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Bombardana on September 04, 2010, 06:53:01 AM
I still don't see how being influential has anything to do with being 'the best', or even quality in general.

I agree.

I love Black Sabbath. I love Tony Iommi. But I rage my face off every time Sabbath tops a "Greatest Metal Bands" list and Iommi tops a "Greatest Metal Guitarists" list. Yeah, they influenced everyone who followed them and were incredibly important to the formation of the genre. But that sure as shit doesn't make them the best. There are countless metal bands that formed in their wake, and thanks to Sabbath opening the door for them, are much better bands. Yet Sabbath still tops those lists, because people can't make the distinction between influence and quality for some bizarre reason. It's really quite a simple concept.
It depends how you look at what can be considered "greatest". Ace of Spades regularly comes up as one of the best metal songs ever in lists like the ones you mentioned, and that is mostly to do with its legacy and recoginition, not necessarily its quality. I still think it's a good song in and of itself, but a major consideration of its ranking, as indeed will be with most lists, is that legacy/recognition factor.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Perpetual Change on September 04, 2010, 06:58:55 AM
I think you're greatly exaggerating their influence. And adding to the genre? Their metal sections are pretty damn by the books in comparison to other metal bands. I can see why you want to pick them because of those bands you mentioned but I mean Opeth actually has made some genuinely great metal and Mastodon right now (at least Crack The Skye) is writing the type of riffs that Dream Theater has the capacity to do but just won't. They're being way more creative with the genre now than Dream Theater has in a very, very long time.

Sure, Dream Theater has become a bit less influential in the past ten years, but just focusing on their decline would be severely downplaying their influence throughout the 90s. I think it's pretty easy to see how Dream Theater impacted metal music. Even if bands like Opeth are more original now (which, honestly, I don't think so-- I have many Opeth albums, and while I like them, they all sound more or less like the same thing) I really don't see how Opeth are important to metal. They're important, sure, but not to metal. Maybe important to a rather cliquish niche of progressive rock music. Then again, maybe there's not really any real metal scene anymore to  be an important part of.

This, I think, lends to the assertion that Dream Theater are the most important metal band of the past twenty years, as Dream Theater are one of the-- if not the-- last important metal bands. Often times, in the world of "art," the last important figures of a particular genre are also some of the most excessive, self-indulgent and controversial. For some, "Watchmen" represents the zenith of what graphic novels could be. For others, it is symbolic of the end of the medium-- it's so overblown that it no longer is in touch with the initial "nature" of what of graphic novel is supposed to be. Another good example is John Milton. For a lot of people, he's the last great epic poet. For later critics, here's an example of where poetry went horribly horribly wrong and became more about style than emotion.

This, for me anyway, perfectly sums up Dream Theater. Because of Dream Theater's technical expertise and theoretical approach to metal, some people would argue that they represent metal in its most perfect form. For others, they represent the point where metal has become so disconnected from what it's supposed to be-- about energy, passion, etc-- that it's killed the genre.

So think what you want about them and their influence, for better or worse. At the end of the day, though, they were the only ones really holding the torch when everything crumbled.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ehra on September 04, 2010, 07:09:21 AM
I still don't see how being influential has anything to do with being 'the best', or even quality in general.

I agree.

I love Black Sabbath. I love Tony Iommi. But I rage my face off every time Sabbath tops a "Greatest Metal Bands" list and Iommi tops a "Greatest Metal Guitarists" list. Yeah, they influenced everyone who followed them and were incredibly important to the formation of the genre. But that sure as shit doesn't make them the best. There are countless metal bands that formed in their wake, and thanks to Sabbath opening the door for them, are much better bands. Yet Sabbath still tops those lists, because people can't make the distinction between influence and quality for some bizarre reason. It's really quite a simple concept.

Why do so many people assume that anyone who loves an older, influential band only loves them because they feel they need to "respect teh classics!"?
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on September 04, 2010, 09:20:19 AM
I still don't see how being influential has anything to do with being 'the best', or even quality in general.

I agree.

I love Black Sabbath. I love Tony Iommi. But I rage my face off every time Sabbath tops a "Greatest Metal Bands" list and Iommi tops a "Greatest Metal Guitarists" list. Yeah, they influenced everyone who followed them and were incredibly important to the formation of the genre. But that sure as shit doesn't make them the best. There are countless metal bands that formed in their wake, and thanks to Sabbath opening the door for them, are much better bands. Yet Sabbath still tops those lists, because people can't make the distinction between influence and quality for some bizarre reason. It's really quite a simple concept.

Two points:

1) First you say you get mad when people call Sabbath a 'great' band then you say you get mad when people call Sabbath the 'best' band. There is an important distinction to be made. 'Great' implies influence, popularity, reputation, etc. 'Best' implies sheer quality; best discography, songs, etc.

So if you do not think Sabbath has the best discography or songs, then I understand. But there is no arguing Sabbath's greatness.

2) If I have made a mistake, forgive me, but you seem to be doing an unjust disservice to Sabbath's quality. Beyond the songs everyone knows - "Paranoid", "War Pigs", "Sweet Leef", Iron Man", etc. - they are actually a very eclectic band. Beginning with Vol. 4, they started to experiment in super interesting ways while maintaining an astronomically high quality throughout.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: MetalManiac666 on September 04, 2010, 09:31:49 AM
Yup.  People still listen to Black Sabbath because they made awesome music, not because they were one of the pioneers of metal.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Fluffy Lothario on September 04, 2010, 09:51:36 AM
Beginning with Vol. 4, they started to experiment in super interesting ways while maintaining an astronomically high quality throughout.
BS were experimenting before they'd even released an album. They just started pushing it a bit harder after MOR. Their sound was never really in a settled state.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: orcus116 on September 04, 2010, 04:12:04 PM
So think what you want about them and their influence, for better or worse. At the end of the day, though, they were the only ones really holding the torch when everything crumbled.

I just can't buy into that last sentence. I'd be kidding myself if I wanted to believe that Dream Theater influenced anyone outside of a handful of select bands, let alone change the course of an entire genre. Yeah they used to fuse technicality and metal in a very interesting direction but they hadn't really made an attempt at a truer metal song until "The Glass Prison" and aside from that song they haven't done anything of merit with that combo since. Very few of their metal riffs from that point have honestly wowed me to the point where I thought they were pushing new ground. If you want to talk about how they were instrumental in bringing technicality to the stage to elevate metal there are a lot of technical death metal bands my roommate has shown me that demonstrate more technical and theoretical approach to pure metal than Dream Theater has. Granted they're not my cup of tea and DT is much more tasteful in their approach but they are by no means close to the technical limit you're saying they pioneered compared to some other bands whose sole aim is to see how far they can push music theory.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Nick on September 04, 2010, 04:31:53 PM
Dream Theater

Yup.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gadough on September 04, 2010, 04:41:57 PM
Why do so many people assume that anyone who loves an older, influential band only loves them because they feel they need to "respect teh classics!"?

...Because, in most of the lists I referred to (usually in music magazines, etc.) there's usually a small blurb about the band in question and why the editors feel they deserve that spot on the list. More often than not, the blurb goes on and on about influence and usually neglects to mention actual quality of the music. I'm just calling it like I see it. If the blurb said something like "Sabbath's meaty guitar riffs, inventive basslines, stellar drumming and soaring vocals combine to create a truly unique and enjoyable experience for metal listeners", I'd be cool with it. But whenever I pick up a music magazine that has such a list, and Sabbath tops it, it usually starts off by saying something like "The wide-ranging influence of this British quartet is undeniable. Universally accepted as the first true metal band, Sabbath is responsible for opening doors for every other band to walk through."

I dunno, maybe I'm just misinterpreting. But to me, that definitely sounds like a case of "RESPECT TEH CLASSICS" in place of respecting the actual music on terms of quality.

1) First you say you get mad when people call Sabbath a 'great' band then you say you get mad when people call Sabbath the 'best' band. There is an important distinction to be made. 'Great' implies influence, popularity, reputation, etc. 'Best' implies sheer quality; best discography, songs, etc.

So if you do not think Sabbath has the best discography or songs, then I understand. But there is no arguing Sabbath's greatness.

2) If I have made a mistake, forgive me, but you seem to be doing an unjust disservice to Sabbath's quality. Beyond the songs everyone knows - "Paranoid", "War Pigs", "Sweet Leef", Iron Man", etc. - they are actually a very eclectic band. Beginning with Vol. 4, they started to experiment in super interesting ways while maintaining an astronomically high quality throughout.

By your definition, I'm not denying Sabbath's "greatness." If it sounded like I was, that's on me. I'm fully aware of how influential and important they are. I'm not going to waste my time denying that, because their reputation is set in stone. My point was that I feel people take their reputation into consideration a little too heavily when weighing them against other bands.

Also, I like Sabbath. I've said that already. I'm a fan. I actually have the Black Box set, all the Dio albums, a Black Sabbath shirt I often wear, and a poster of Sabbath is hanging on one of my walls. Supernaut contains my second favorite guitar riff of all time. So, I'm not denying that they're a good band either - just that there are so many that are much, much better and deserve to be placed above them.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Marvellous G on September 04, 2010, 04:43:34 PM
I agree with Gadough. That's why that recent drummer poll the BBC did amazed me with it's inclusions of people like Gavin Harrison and Mike Portnoy.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ehra on September 04, 2010, 06:29:40 PM
Why do so many people assume that anyone who loves an older, influential band only loves them because they feel they need to "respect teh classics!"?

...Because, in most of the lists I referred to (usually in music magazines, etc.) there's usually a small blurb about the band in question and why the editors feel they deserve that spot on the list. More often than not, the blurb goes on and on about influence and usually neglects to mention actual quality of the music. I'm just calling it like I see it. If the blurb said something like "Sabbath's meaty guitar riffs, inventive basslines, stellar drumming and soaring vocals combine to create a truly unique and enjoyable experience for metal listeners", I'd be cool with it. But whenever I pick up a music magazine that has such a list, and Sabbath tops it, it usually starts off by saying something like "The wide-ranging influence of this British quartet is undeniable. Universally accepted as the first true metal band, Sabbath is responsible for opening doors for every other band to walk through."

I dunno, maybe I'm just misinterpreting. But to me, that definitely sounds like a case of "RESPECT TEH CLASSICS" in place of respecting the actual music on terms of quality.

I seem to remember having this exact conversation with someone here before.

If they're only doing a small blurb for each band then it makes sense to me that a magazine is going to use that space to mention how influential they are. If their "best bands" list is nothing but classics then, yeah, I'd say you're on the money. But if it's a mix and they just mention how influential the influential bands are then I wouldn't look into it too much.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Perpetual Change on September 04, 2010, 06:52:37 PM
So think what you want about them and their influence, for better or worse. At the end of the day, though, they were the only ones really holding the torch when everything crumbled.

I just can't buy into that last sentence. I'd be kidding myself if I wanted to believe that Dream Theater influenced anyone outside of a handful of select bands, let alone change the course of an entire genre.

Without Dream Theater, there'd probably be no Symphony X, Shadow Gallery, Pain of Salvation, Ayreon, Vaden Plas and (though no one is going to want to listen to this) I think its doubtful bands like Opeth (and, by extension, BtBaM, Cynic, etc) would have ever entered the progressive realm.  That, and I think you're forgetting how much of a musicians band DT are. You'd be hard-pressed to find a metal drummer who doesn't look up to Portnoy; a metal guitarist who doesn't like Petrucci; a keyboardist who doesn't idolize Kevin Moore or Jordan Rudess.
Yeah they used to fuse technicality and metal in a very interesting direction but they hadn't really made an attempt at a truer metal song until "The Glass Prison" and aside from that song they haven't done anything of merit with that combo since. Very few of their metal riffs from that point have honestly wowed me to the point where I thought they were pushing new ground.
I'm not really concerned with what they've done recently. There's plenty of interesting progressive metal coming from them from WDADU-SFAM.
If you want to talk about how they were instrumental in bringing technicality to the stage to elevate metal there are a lot of technical death metal bands my roommate has shown me that demonstrate more technical and theoretical approach to pure metal than Dream Theater has. Granted they're not my cup of tea and DT is much more tasteful in their approach but they are by no means close to the technical limit you're saying they pioneered compared to some other bands whose sole aim is to see how far they can push music theory.
But I'm guessing Dream Theater were doing it first. The most progressive metal got before Dream Theater was Queensryche and Fates Warning. And while Mike's humbly given both those bands true credit for forming the genre, neither came anywhere near the progressiveness DT reached with Images and Words.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gadough on September 04, 2010, 07:06:50 PM
Why do so many people assume that anyone who loves an older, influential band only loves them because they feel they need to "respect teh classics!"?

...Because, in most of the lists I referred to (usually in music magazines, etc.) there's usually a small blurb about the band in question and why the editors feel they deserve that spot on the list. More often than not, the blurb goes on and on about influence and usually neglects to mention actual quality of the music. I'm just calling it like I see it. If the blurb said something like "Sabbath's meaty guitar riffs, inventive basslines, stellar drumming and soaring vocals combine to create a truly unique and enjoyable experience for metal listeners", I'd be cool with it. But whenever I pick up a music magazine that has such a list, and Sabbath tops it, it usually starts off by saying something like "The wide-ranging influence of this British quartet is undeniable. Universally accepted as the first true metal band, Sabbath is responsible for opening doors for every other band to walk through."

I dunno, maybe I'm just misinterpreting. But to me, that definitely sounds like a case of "RESPECT TEH CLASSICS" in place of respecting the actual music on terms of quality.

I seem to remember having this exact conversation with someone here before.

If they're only doing a small blurb for each band then it makes sense to me that a magazine is going to use that space to mention how influential they are. If their "best bands" list is nothing but classics then, yeah, I'd say you're on the money. But if it's a mix and they just mention how influential the influential bands are then I wouldn't look into it too much.

Fair enough.

And I think we have argued about this before, actually. This all seems very familiar. :lol
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: King Postwhore on September 04, 2010, 07:12:54 PM
You are all wrong and here is the proof.


(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/spinal-tap.jpg)
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gadough on September 04, 2010, 07:14:37 PM
Hard to argue against that.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: orcus116 on September 04, 2010, 07:25:53 PM
Without Dream Theater, there'd probably be no Symphony X, Shadow Gallery, Pain of Salvation, Ayreon, Vaden Plas

:lol

What a fuckin' tragedy.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Fluffy Lothario on September 04, 2010, 07:45:47 PM
I just can't buy into that last sentence. I'd be kidding myself if I wanted to believe that Dream Theater influenced anyone outside of a handful of select bands, let alone change the course of an entire genre. Yeah they used to fuse technicality and metal in a very interesting direction but they hadn't really made an attempt at a truer metal song until "The Glass Prison" and aside from that song they haven't done anything of merit with that combo since. Very few of their metal riffs from that point have honestly wowed me to the point where I thought they were pushing new ground. If you want to talk about how they were instrumental in bringing technicality to the stage to elevate metal there are a lot of technical death metal bands my roommate has shown me that demonstrate more technical and theoretical approach to pure metal than Dream Theater has. Granted they're not my cup of tea and DT is much more tasteful in their approach but they are by no means close to the technical limit you're saying they pioneered compared to some other bands whose sole aim is to see how far they can push music theory.
Okay, I wasn't going to get into this discussion, since I like little metal from the last decade, but now I'm a little too interested.

Just because DT's metal wasn't that chunk and balls and there were bands who pushed technicality further doesn't mean DT's influence on metal in terms of technicality can't be that high. They were simply a band which a good audience latched onto in that respect. I used to read a lot of metal mags; I remember the article hyping Mastodon's Remission, and A7X's second album, the one before City of Evil. Both times, they asked the band five albums which, combined, influence their sound. Both bands said Images and Words. In fact, it was interesting how often they were mentioned by bands you'd never think would associate with them.

I mean, look at '90s metal. The early nineties was the "dumbing down" and commercialising of thrash, and groove metal, and the late nineties was nu-metal. That's only looking at the major trends, but just like in rock, the nineties weren't good times for much of any overly great display of technicality in metal. The focus on how well you could play your instrument rose very obviously in 00s metal, even in your everyday, not trying to be extremely technical bands. Compare Korn with A7X. Compare White Zombie with Trivium. A lot of thrash bands have gone from slowed-down metal and hard rock experiments back to their more signature thrash. The fact that DT were there at all during the nineties doing prog metal with a half decent audience... I just think they very likely had quite an influence on the swing back in that direction, even if it's more of a latent influence. Which means their influence goes far further than just your prog/power metal copycats, it's arguably across the entire genre.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: skydivingninja on September 04, 2010, 07:51:39 PM
Indeed.

And a comment on one of PC's points: I don't think DT had anything to do with Opeth being "progressive."  They've been doing the heavy/light contrast since Orchid, and Mikael's love of classic prog and Porcupine Tree is well known.  Cynic's debut came out a year after Images and Words, but the band had been together since the late 80s.  I understand the point of BTBAM though, I'm sure they look up to DT.  All those other bands you mentioned?  Yeah, DT had a part to play.  With the exception of PoS, the influence is really blatant.

@Fluffy: Didn't know that about Mastodon at all.  They never mention DT, while Genesis, Neurosis, and the Melvins are always mentioned in their interviews.  This just got me thinking about a Mastodon/DT co-headlining tour  :omg:
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: King Postwhore on September 04, 2010, 08:09:26 PM
Without Dream Theater, there'd probably be no Symphony X, Shadow Gallery, Pain of Salvation, Ayreon, Vaden Plas

:lol

What a fatal tragedy.

fixed.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: orcus116 on September 04, 2010, 08:13:11 PM
nugget'd
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: MetalManiac666 on September 04, 2010, 11:24:07 PM
This just got me thinking about a Mastodon/DT co-headlining tour  :omg:

*smilees in pants*
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Arcaeus on September 05, 2010, 02:50:22 AM
Without Dream Theater, there'd probably be no Symphony X, Shadow Gallery, Pain of Salvation, Ayreon, Vaden Plas

I wanted to ignore this, but it's bugging me. I can see how Dream Theater influenced the likes of bands like Shadow Gallery and Vanden Plas (who are derivative and while not bad, nothing special), but why do I always see people suggesting that Pain of Salvation wouldn't exist without Dream Theater? Daniel Gildenlöw has stated he doesn't like progressive metal and the last album he even bought from the genre was Awake, so any influence would end there. Pain of Salvation always seemed more influenced by alternative metal akin to the likes of Faith No More (who are one of DG's favorite bands) and while there's obvious progressive elements in their earlier albums none of it ever screamed "DT" to me.

Sorry, not related to the thread, just a minor annoyance.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: wolfking on September 05, 2010, 03:29:46 AM
Without Dream Theater, there'd probably be no Symphony X, Shadow Gallery, Pain of Salvation, Ayreon, Vaden Plas.

This comment is bullshit.  Please find attached links of websites stating these artists influences;

Arjen A. Lucassen (Ayreon) - https://www.arjenlucassen.com/aal/aa_biography.html (DT not mentioned)

Michael Romeo (Symphony X) -  https://www.symphonyx.com/michael_romeo.html (DT not mentioned)

Gary Wehrkamp (Shadow gallery) - https://www.ram.org/music/articles/wehrkampinterview.html (DT mentioned along with a lot of other artists.)

Vanden Plas - https://www.vandenplas.de/interview_stephan_2001.php (DT are mentioned along with other bands.)

Pain of Salvation - Anyone who thinks these guys would not exist without DT, haven't really sat down and listened to them.  Anyone can hear the 70's rock, alternative rock, 70's prog influences in their music.  These guys are beyond DT musically.
 
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Perpetual Change on September 05, 2010, 03:47:56 AM
You're a nutcase if you think Symphony X weren't influenced by Dream Theater.

Whether Dream Theater influenced any of those bands directly is beyond the point, though. The point is, if it weren't for Dream Theater making progressive music (relatively) cool again, I wonder if bands like Shadow Gallery, Pain of Salvation, and Symphony X would even have had nice creative outlets like "Inside Out" willing to fund their music.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Portrucci on September 05, 2010, 03:49:24 AM
I don't think they were SIGNIFICANTLY influenced by Dream Theate at all. I can here neoclassical guitar influence, maybe even some Pantera. But nope, not really any DT. Care to elaborate on these glaring implications of influence?
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Perpetual Change on September 05, 2010, 03:54:48 AM
I don't think they were SIGNIFICANTLY influenced by Dream Theate at all. I can here neoclassical guitar influence, maybe even some Pantera. But nope, not really any DT. Care to elaborate on these glaring implications of influence?
They've toured with them several times. They've been spotted at Dream Theater shows in New Jersey. Them moving from generic metal to progressive metal almost directly correlates with Dream Theater's success. And, oh yeah, they kind of sound like them, too! ;D
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Portrucci on September 05, 2010, 04:00:31 AM
I don't think they were SIGNIFICANTLY influenced by Dream Theate at all. I can here neoclassical guitar influence, maybe even some Pantera. But nope, not really any DT. Care to elaborate on these glaring implications of influence?
They've toured with them several times. They've been spotted at Dream Theater shows in New Jersey. Them moving from generic metal to progressive metal almost directly correlates with Dream Theater's success. And, oh yeah, they kind of sound like them, too! ;D
Yeah that's a pretty weak argument. I think the move to their style of progressive metal was inevitable, as it's a natural progression looking at their discography. I'm sure they picked up a few pointers from DT (perhaps the incorporation of odd time signatures, I've give you that). But as a whole the bands aren't that similar at all. Looking at The Divine Wings of Tragedy (album)....I can't really any DT stuff to compare it to. The title track put against say A Change of Seasons. Yeah, they are both progressive metal and epic in length. But the approach is completely different.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: wolfking on September 05, 2010, 04:03:36 AM
You're a nutcase if you think Symphony X weren't influenced by Dream Theater.

Whether Dream Theater influenced any of those bands directly is beyond the point, though. The point is, if it weren't for Dream Theater making progressive music (relatively) cool again, I wonder if bands like Shadow Gallery, Pain of Salvation, and Symphony X would even have had nice creative outlets like "Inside Out" willing to fund their music.

You are giving DT way too much credit.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Zook on September 05, 2010, 05:24:22 AM
I love Symphony X but come on now. Listen to The Death of Balance. If you can't hear DT and even a particular song, you need a cat scan or something.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Bombardana on September 05, 2010, 05:26:33 AM
How did Dream Theater arrive at their prog metal style? They tried mixing together prog and metal. Plenty of other bands did this (and to an extent, still do), and aren't at all influenced by Dream Theater. I read through some of the messages in this thread and I can't believe how hugely overstated Dream Theater's influence is. And you wonder why people think prog fans are arrogant...

edit: I bet the people saying "x sounds like Dream Theater" are just people who first discovered progressive metal through Dream Theater, same way when someone new discovers Metallica they think loads of other metal also sounds like Metallica.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Portrucci on September 05, 2010, 05:28:40 AM
I love Symphony X but come on now. Listen to The Death of Balance. If you can't hear DT and even a particular song, you need a cat scan or something.
That's one song  :lol Not really strong enough for the whole argument. But that song I can definitely see the similarity (in particular the main riff is like The Mirror).
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: In The Wake Of Poseidon on September 05, 2010, 05:30:59 AM
Dude, Symphony X is most definitely influenced by Dream Theater. I mean hell, they are pretty much friends with each other now and days. Mike Portnoy showed up to their concerts, they tour together, both part of the early progressive metal scene.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Bombardana on September 05, 2010, 05:34:51 AM
Dude, Symphony X is most definitely influenced by Dream Theater. I mean hell, they are pretty much friends with each other now and days. Mike Portnoy showed up to their concerts, they tour together, both part of the early progressive metal scene.
So DT influenced SX just because they are friends within the same music scene, and they go to each others concerts? yahuh. ::)
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Portrucci on September 05, 2010, 05:38:21 AM
Dude, Symphony X is most definitely influenced by Dream Theater. I mean hell, they are pretty much friends with each other now and days. Mike Portnoy showed up to their concerts, they tour together, both part of the early progressive metal scene.
Naturally there will be some influence...but would Symphony X exist without Dream Theater? I think it probably would. Like I said, the main influences I hear on their style is the neoclassical virtuoso's of the 80s and Pantera-esque riffs and drums. Maybe the presence of DT allowed them to gain more popularity than they would have, but no way DT is the main influence on SX. I just can't see it.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: In The Wake Of Poseidon on September 05, 2010, 05:42:14 AM
Dude, Symphony X is most definitely influenced by Dream Theater. I mean hell, they are pretty much friends with each other now and days. Mike Portnoy showed up to their concerts, they tour together, both part of the early progressive metal scene.
So DT influenced SX just because they are friends within the same music scene, and they go to each others concerts? yahuh. ::)
Umm yeah. People are naturally influenced by their friends believe it or not. Especially if your friend laid down the foundations for progressive metal.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Bombardana on September 05, 2010, 05:43:59 AM
Dude, Symphony X is most definitely influenced by Dream Theater. I mean hell, they are pretty much friends with each other now and days. Mike Portnoy showed up to their concerts, they tour together, both part of the early progressive metal scene.
So DT influenced SX just because they are friends within the same music scene, and they go to each others concerts? yahuh. ::)
Umm yeah. People are naturally influenced by their friends believe it or not. Especially if your friend laid down the foundations for progressive metal.
In that case it's totally justified to say that Dream Theater were in turn influenced by Symphony X. Would you accept that?
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Portrucci on September 05, 2010, 05:46:08 AM
I can see Porcupine Tree, post In Absentia had some influence from the metal of Opeth (as they are very close friends). Is Opeth a major influence for Porcupine Tree? Nope, I wouldn't say so. Some little influence may exist, but certainly when bands have been pretty much operating in the same period, I don't see how one can have such a significant influence on the other.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: In The Wake Of Poseidon on September 05, 2010, 05:46:46 AM
Dude, Symphony X is most definitely influenced by Dream Theater. I mean hell, they are pretty much friends with each other now and days. Mike Portnoy showed up to their concerts, they tour together, both part of the early progressive metal scene.
So DT influenced SX just because they are friends within the same music scene, and they go to each others concerts? yahuh. ::)
Umm yeah. People are naturally influenced by their friends believe it or not. Especially if your friend laid down the foundations for progressive metal.
In that case it's totally justified to say that Dream Theater were in turn influenced by Symphony X. Would you accept that?
Yes.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Perpetual Change on September 05, 2010, 06:04:42 AM
In this thread, people think being influenced means becoming a carbon-copy of the influencer. Sheesh.

How did Dream Theater arrive at their prog metal style? They tried mixing together prog and metal. Plenty of other bands did this (and to an extent, still do), and aren't at all influenced by Dream Theater.

And weren't, at all, as influential as Dream Theater.  Or weren't as progressive.

I read through some of the messages in this
edit: I bet the people saying "x sounds like Dream Theater" are just people who first discovered progressive metal through Dream Theater, same way when someone new discovers Metallica they think loads of other metal also sounds like Metallica.

Guess again.

You are giving DT way too much credit.

Maybe, but I still can't think of a band that deserve the place more than DT.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Bombardana on September 05, 2010, 08:37:54 AM
In this thread, people think being influenced means becoming a carbon-copy of the influencer. Sheesh.
In this thread, people think Dream Theater forming a few years earlier automatically means they influenced later bands. Sheesh.

And weren't, at all, as influential as Dream Theater.  Or weren't as progressive.
Dream Theater were only particularly influential to the carbon-copy bands. Most (better) prog metal bands took influence from the entire prog scene, and music beyond. Dream Theater aren't even THAT progressive by todays standards.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Fluffy Lothario on September 05, 2010, 08:57:52 AM
In this thread, people think being influenced means becoming a carbon-copy of the influencer. Sheesh.
In this thread, people think Dream Theater forming a few years earlier automatically means they influenced later bands. Sheesh.
Regardless of whether bands are trying to directly replicate their sound or not, being there at all, with something of an audience, doing something that most relatively popular metal bands in the nineties weren't doing, i.e. proudly displaying technicality, means there's a higher chance it was them, alongside a nostalgia for older bands, that inspired the shift in trends. All a musician has to do is hear them and like what they're doing and wish there was more of something like that today (read: not necessarily exactly the same thing) and it starts things rolling. I'm not saying they're the sole band that caused this, but I'm saying I wouldn't write off the chance they were one of the bands, especially when, as I said, I used to see a lot of bands namedrop them for making them appreciate that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 05, 2010, 12:21:37 PM
Dream Theater's influence sure is serious business huh
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Moonchild on September 05, 2010, 03:22:05 PM
Dream Theater's influence sure is serious business huh
It derailed the entire topic.

Linkin Park because it sold more. Even though you might not call it metal, to my knowledge nu metal is a subgenre of metal.

I win.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Zantera on September 05, 2010, 04:35:28 PM
Looking back at things now, sure Dream Theater is considered being pioneers because of the mix of progressive-music and metal.
Maybe they weren't the first band doing it, but they did it better then many other groups, and as a result they became the 'gods' of progressive-metal.
But saying stuff like "without DT x wouldn't exist" doesn't make any sense either, because if DT wouldn't have made that breakthrough for the progressive-metal scene, someone else would have.

Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Perpetual Change on September 05, 2010, 04:36:56 PM
Dream Theater were only particularly influential to the carbon-copy bands. Most (better) prog metal bands took influence from the entire prog scene, and music beyond. Dream Theater aren't even THAT progressive by todays standards.

That's like saying Metallica were only influential to their carbon-copy bands, when they were influential to bands like Dream Theater, too.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ehra on September 05, 2010, 04:44:21 PM
But saying stuff like "without DT x wouldn't exist" doesn't make any sense either, because if DT wouldn't have made that breakthrough for the progressive-metal scene, someone else would have.

It also doesn't make sense because that means that if this thread were about bands of the past, say, 40 years, then we would have to call the bands that influenced DT the best. But then what about the bands that influenced them?

This is why I never was particularly fond of judging bands based on how influential, because then you have to start considering the bands that influenced the bands that ended up influencing future bands. Madness!
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Adami on September 05, 2010, 04:46:34 PM
Disturbed are the greatest metal band of the last twenty years.


There, argue about that for a while. Jesus.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gadough on September 05, 2010, 04:47:28 PM
There's nothing to argue about. That's an absolute fact.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Zook on September 05, 2010, 06:41:34 PM
Iced Earth because I feel sorry for Jon Schaffer.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ThroughHerEyesDude6 on September 06, 2010, 11:22:07 PM
There's nothing to argue about. That's an absolute fact.

I agree entirely.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: lateralus88 on September 07, 2010, 09:37:12 AM
Disturbed are the greatest metal band of the last twenty years.


There, argue about that for a while. Jesus.
They have referred themselves as the "gods of metal" on stage before, if I remember correctly. They are null and void.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: 73109 on September 07, 2010, 09:38:07 AM
Really??? I mean, I dig them and shit but calling themselves the gods of metal is going over board...way over board.
Title: Changing titles = comedic gold
Post by: ehra on September 07, 2010, 09:42:55 AM
There's nothing to argue about. That's an absolute fact.

I agree entirely.

Too much sarcasm green, I can't tell if you're playing along with Gadough's comment or if you're using the green to show your disapproval at his use of sarcasm when saying they're the best.

Too many layers!
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Sigz on September 07, 2010, 09:43:24 AM
Wasn't that just the name of the tour?
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ehra on September 07, 2010, 09:45:12 AM
Wasn't that just the name of the tour?

During shows I think the singer likes to make comments like "bow to your gods in metal." Or some crap.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Sigz on September 07, 2010, 09:46:45 AM
 :|
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: lateralus88 on September 07, 2010, 09:47:46 AM
And that folks is the reason I lost every shred of respect for the band. And they were never all that good in my book to begin with.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Sigz on September 07, 2010, 09:53:19 AM
I never cared for them. Not that they're bad, they're just insanely bland.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: 73109 on September 07, 2010, 09:54:45 AM
Yeah, they are. I mean, they have enough good songs to see them perform a good set (as I did) but I listened to 2 songs off the new album and I'm not going to try any further. It has even gotten to me, Mr. I love the chugga chugga, how extremely bland they have become.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Bombardana on September 07, 2010, 09:59:02 AM
Dream Theater were only particularly influential to the carbon-copy bands. Most (better) prog metal bands took influence from the entire prog scene, and music beyond. Dream Theater aren't even THAT progressive by todays standards.

That's like saying Metallica were only influential to their carbon-copy bands, when they were influential to bands like Dream Theater, too.
:facepalm:
It isn't because these are distinctly different bands in distinctly different situations. It's not equivalent. It still applies that bands that only draw influence from one band will end up being carbon-copies.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Perpetual Change on September 07, 2010, 10:01:04 AM
I never said any band ONLY drew influence from DT.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Bombardana on September 07, 2010, 10:04:43 AM
No, but you were talking about Dream Theater being influential beyond what they are, and you point to the bands that more or less try to copy Dream Theater as examples of that influence. The better prog metal bands draw upon the entire prog scene, and Dream Theater are just one small piece of that regardless of what some people might say.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 07, 2010, 10:44:46 AM
Dream Theater's influence sure is serious business huh
It derailed the entire topic.

Linkin Park because it sold more. Even though you might not call it metal, to my knowledge nu metal is a subgenre of metal.

I win.

No it isn't.

*Goes into a huge rant over how nu-metal is a subgenre of hard rock, and not metal while raging the whole time*
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Sigz on September 07, 2010, 10:47:09 AM
nu-metal is a subgenre of hard rock, and not metal

(https://imgur.com/Sdexi.jpg)
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ehra on September 07, 2010, 10:52:34 AM
JRPGs aren't a subgenre of RPGs, they're a subgenre of Microsoft Excel.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 07, 2010, 10:54:06 AM
JRPGs aren't a subgenre of RPGs, they're a subgenre of Microsoft Excel.
JRPG's actually play like an RPG. Nu-metal does not sound like metal. Bad analogy.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ehra on September 07, 2010, 11:49:35 AM
It wasn't meant to be a strong analogy.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: skydivingninja on September 07, 2010, 01:22:52 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_metal

Quote
Nu metal (or nü metal[4] or aggro-metal[5][6]) is a subgenre [7] of heavy metal.

:neverusethis:
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: orcus116 on September 07, 2010, 01:35:48 PM
AGGRO-METAL!!!!!

 :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: MetalManiac666 on September 07, 2010, 01:41:32 PM
lol
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ThroughHerEyesDude6 on September 07, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
AGGRO-METAL!!!!!

 :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal


MATH METAL!!!
 :metal^2+(3x-3y)>(y-x)^3
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: bosk1 on September 07, 2010, 03:10:21 PM
A few points:

1.  The topic is "best metal band of the past 20 years."  I think pretty much any kind of metal will do, so quit whining about whether whatever subgenre you happen to have singled out is "true" metal.
2.  Who cares whether DT influenced a particular band?  They've influenced tons, to one degree or another, but it's not like the vast majority of bands that exist today wouldn't be around if not for DT.  Both sides of this argument need to get over yourselves.
3.  Symphony X aren't really "progressive metal."  They never really have been.  Yeah, there are elements of that here and there, but they are pretty much the poster children for symphonic metal.  Yngwie took neo-classical-influenced metal to the extreme and put it on steriods in the '80s.  SX, led by Romeo, took what Yngwie did and put it on steroids in the '90s, added in some nasty Pantera-esque guitar tone and extreme time signatures, and there you have it.
4.  Speaking of symphonic metal, this subgenre really took off in the '90s, although a lot of people seem not to have discovered it until the '00s, myself included. 
5.  I had never listened to Meshuggah prior to clicking one of the YouTube links in this thread.  I started enjoying it.  Then dude started "singing" and I realized I haven't missed out on anything.
6.  I had never listened to Mastodon prior to clicking one of the YouTube links in this thread.  I started REALLY enjoying it.  Then dude started "singing" and I realized I haven't missed out on anything.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: skydivingninja on September 07, 2010, 03:28:29 PM
Yeah Mastodon doesn't really have good vocalists.  Actually, Brann Dailor, the drummer, is probably the best vocalist out of the bunch.  He sings the clean verses in "Oblivion."  Crack the Skye in general has some of their best vocals, though, like I said, none of them are really vocalists at all.  Agree with Meshuggah though.  Not a big fan of their vocals.  Or most of the music.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Marvellous G on September 07, 2010, 03:34:33 PM
It's frustrating how many of these bands there are that are musically fantastic but offputting vocally in some way. Agalloch and Opeth say hi as well. I stick by my vote for Tool for best metal band of the last 20 years though, their career so far is nearly flawless.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Sigz on September 07, 2010, 03:36:52 PM
I love Mastodon's, Opeth's, and Agalloch's vocals. Meshuggah is just there.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Marvellous G on September 07, 2010, 03:37:59 PM
I do love Opeth's now, but they were offputting initially. I'm sure I'll get used to Agalloch's, but with Mastodon the music isn't compelling enough to make me want to get past them.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: skydivingninja on September 07, 2010, 05:37:19 PM
I love Mastodon's vocals now, especially Brent and Brann's.  Troy is all right.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gadough on September 07, 2010, 07:30:39 PM
Wasn't that just the name of the tour?

During shows I think the singer likes to make comments like "bow to your gods in metal." Or some crap.

I'd like to see video footage of this, because I find this damn near impossible to believe.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: orcus116 on September 07, 2010, 07:32:54 PM
I've heard that Disturbed is pretty huge in Europe for some reason. Bands like Nevermore open for them over there.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ehra on September 07, 2010, 07:35:28 PM
Wasn't that just the name of the tour?

During shows I think the singer likes to make comments like "bow to your gods in metal." Or some crap.

I'd like to see video footage of this, because I find this damn near impossible to believe.

No idea, I've never seen them. Going by what other people here have claimed.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Zook on September 07, 2010, 11:47:38 PM
I might be completely making this up but I think Draiman did say something ridonkulous like that because I remember me and my brother looking at each other like :\ after he said something. I'll have to confirm this. Either way, if they want to be gods of metal, they better stop making Ten Thousand Fists over and over again.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Bombardana on September 08, 2010, 09:57:45 AM
3.  Symphony X aren't really "progressive metal."  They never really have been.  Yeah, there are elements of that here and there, but they are pretty much the poster children for symphonic metal.  Yngwie took neo-classical-influenced metal to the extreme and put it on steriods in the '80s.  SX, led by Romeo, took what Yngwie did and put it on steroids in the '90s, added in some nasty Pantera-esque guitar tone and extreme time signatures, and there you have it.
I disagree with this point. Symphonic metal as it exists in its purest form is not at all like Symphony X. SX have taken elements of symphonic metal, power metal, neo-classical, and progressive metal as you said (although this in a greater ammount than you give them credit for), but they cannot be categorised as any one of these genres, and especially not as "the poster child" of any of them. tl;dr: lolno.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Adami on September 08, 2010, 10:40:10 AM
I agree Symph X is not symphonic metal. They have times where the keys are playing some strings, but that's it. Hardly symphonic.

I'd call them Neo Classical Metal.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: bosk1 on September 08, 2010, 10:53:13 AM
I meant power metal.  Sorry.

But I'm not necessarily trying to pigeonhole them into a specific subgenre either.  That's overly artificial, not to mention pointless.  But calling them progressive metal just seems odd to me when neither the band nor the majority of their fans would even for a moment consider them progressive metal.  Yeah, they have some progressive elements in their music, have long songs, and use plenty of odd time signatures, but at least to me, their sound doesn't really fit what I think of when I think of progressive metal.  Not at all.  And look at the lyrical content as well.  I mean, since when has any real progressive metal band wrote lyrics about monsters and mythology and...wait, what was I arguing again?
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Jarlaxle on September 08, 2010, 10:53:36 AM
Dream Theater
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Bombardana on September 08, 2010, 10:55:57 AM
I meant power metal.  Sorry.

But I'm not necessarily trying to pigeonhole them into a specific subgenre either.  That's overly artificial, not to mention pointless.  But calling them progressive metal just seems odd to me when neither the band nor the majority of their fans would even for a moment consider them progressive metal.
I wouldn't want to pigeonhole them into the progressive metal genre either. I'd prefer to call them a combination of the two Progressive Power Metal (in the same way Opeth is Progressive Death Metal)
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gorille85 on September 08, 2010, 12:48:19 PM
I agree Symph X is not symphonic metal. They have times where the keys are playing some strings, but that's it. Hardly symphonic.

I'd call them Neo Classical Metal.
They were back when they released V but not so much anymore IMO.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 08, 2010, 03:05:35 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_metal

Quote
Nu metal (or nü metal[4] or aggro-metal[5][6]) is a subgenre [7] of heavy metal.

:neverusethis:

lol @ wikipedia being a valid source
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Arcaeus on September 08, 2010, 03:07:09 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_metal

Quote
Nu metal (or nü metal[4] or aggro-metal[5][6]) is a subgenre [7] of heavy metal.

:neverusethis:

lol @ wikipedia being a valid source

lol @ your opinion being one
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: orcus116 on September 08, 2010, 03:08:25 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_metal

Quote
Nu metal (or nü metal[4] or aggro-metal[5][6]) is a subgenre [7] of heavy metal.

:neverusethis:

lol @ wikipedia being a valid source

I dunno why everyone shits on Wikipedia like that considering if you're not retarded you can tell when someone has fucked with an entry or if information looks off. Plus there's a reason there are links to the sources.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 08, 2010, 03:14:20 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_metal

Quote
Nu metal (or nü metal[4] or aggro-metal[5][6]) is a subgenre [7] of heavy metal.

:neverusethis:

lol @ wikipedia being a valid source

I dunno why everyone shits on Wikipedia like that considering if you're not retarded you can tell when someone has fucked with an entry or if information looks off. Plus there's a reason there are links to the sources.

Wikipedia claims RHCP to be "Funk Metal". If that's not reason enough to discredit wikipedia on genre discussions, I don't know what is.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: orcus116 on September 08, 2010, 03:17:09 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hot_Chili_Peppers

Quote
Red Hot Chili Peppers is an American funk rock band formed in Los Angeles in 1983.

lolwut? The 'rap rock' genre is a little odd, though.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Fluffy Lothario on September 09, 2010, 07:15:39 AM
It's frustrating how many of these bands there are that are musically fantastic but offputting vocally in some way.
I've said this tons of times, but this is just the way metal has gone in the past decade. I mean, obvious generalisation, but you're just not metal enough today unless you grunt, growl, scream or squeal like a pig.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ehra on September 09, 2010, 07:22:30 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_metal

Quote
Nu metal (or nü metal[4] or aggro-metal[5][6]) is a subgenre [7] of heavy metal.

:neverusethis:

lol @ wikipedia being a valid source

I dunno why everyone shits on Wikipedia like that considering if you're not retarded you can tell when someone has fucked with an entry or if information looks off. Plus there's a reason there are links to the sources.

Because it's easier to attack the source than the argument.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Portrucci on September 09, 2010, 07:30:33 AM
Opeth, Neurosis and Pantera are at the top for me.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 09, 2010, 10:37:19 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_metal

Quote
Nu metal (or nü metal[4] or aggro-metal[5][6]) is a subgenre [7] of heavy metal.

:neverusethis:

lol @ wikipedia being a valid source

I dunno why everyone shits on Wikipedia like that considering if you're not retarded you can tell when someone has fucked with an entry or if information looks off. Plus there's a reason there are links to the sources.

Because it's easier to attack the source than the argument.
When part of your (Not necessarily you, but sdn posted it) argument is a wikipedia link and it becomes obvious that wikipedia fails at genres (Funk Metal? Are you shitting me? And I thought Speed Metal was dumb.), it doesn't help your argument.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ehra on September 09, 2010, 10:48:27 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_metal

Quote
Nu metal (or nü metal[4] or aggro-metal[5][6]) is a subgenre [7] of heavy metal.

:neverusethis:

lol @ wikipedia being a valid source

I dunno why everyone shits on Wikipedia like that considering if you're not retarded you can tell when someone has fucked with an entry or if information looks off. Plus there's a reason there are links to the sources.

Because it's easier to attack the source than the argument.
When part of your (Not necessarily you, but sdn posted it) argument is a wikipedia link and it becomes obvious that wikipedia fails at genres (Funk Metal? Are you shitting me? And I thought Speed Metal was dumb.), it doesn't help your argument.

Wikipedia doesn't invent genres.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 09, 2010, 10:51:05 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_metal

Quote
Nu metal (or nü metal[4] or aggro-metal[5][6]) is a subgenre [7] of heavy metal.

:neverusethis:

lol @ wikipedia being a valid source

I dunno why everyone shits on Wikipedia like that considering if you're not retarded you can tell when someone has fucked with an entry or if information looks off. Plus there's a reason there are links to the sources.

Because it's easier to attack the source than the argument.
When part of your (Not necessarily you, but sdn posted it) argument is a wikipedia link and it becomes obvious that wikipedia fails at genres (Funk Metal? Are you shitting me? And I thought Speed Metal was dumb.), it doesn't help your argument.

Wikipedia doesn't invent genres.
Then how does "Funk Metal" come up when there is obviously no such thing?
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gadough on September 09, 2010, 10:52:32 AM
Funk metal is a semi-well established term. I've seen it used several times in several contexts in several places.

That being said, it's still stupid.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ehra on September 09, 2010, 10:54:50 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_metal

Quote
Nu metal (or nü metal[4] or aggro-metal[5][6]) is a subgenre [7] of heavy metal.

:neverusethis:

lol @ wikipedia being a valid source

I dunno why everyone shits on Wikipedia like that considering if you're not retarded you can tell when someone has fucked with an entry or if information looks off. Plus there's a reason there are links to the sources.

Because it's easier to attack the source than the argument.
When part of your (Not necessarily you, but sdn posted it) argument is a wikipedia link and it becomes obvious that wikipedia fails at genres (Funk Metal? Are you shitting me? And I thought Speed Metal was dumb.), it doesn't help your argument.

Wikipedia doesn't invent genres.
Then how does "Funk Metal" come up when there is obviously no such thing?

If it's "obviously no such thing" then how can they have a list of sources at the bottom of the page?
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gorille85 on September 09, 2010, 11:02:05 AM
Funk metal is a semi-well established term. I've seen it used several times in several contexts in several places.

That being said, it's still stupid.
I think Mr. Bungle first album is considered "funk metal"...but IMO it's more an avant-garde record.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 09, 2010, 11:02:25 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_metal

Quote
Nu metal (or nü metal[4] or aggro-metal[5][6]) is a subgenre [7] of heavy metal.

:neverusethis:

lol @ wikipedia being a valid source

I dunno why everyone shits on Wikipedia like that considering if you're not retarded you can tell when someone has fucked with an entry or if information looks off. Plus there's a reason there are links to the sources.

Because it's easier to attack the source than the argument.
When part of your (Not necessarily you, but sdn posted it) argument is a wikipedia link and it becomes obvious that wikipedia fails at genres (Funk Metal? Are you shitting me? And I thought Speed Metal was dumb.), it doesn't help your argument.

Wikipedia doesn't invent genres.
Then how does "Funk Metal" come up when there is obviously no such thing?

If it's "obviously no such thing" then how can they have a list of sources at the bottom of the page?

*Checks sources*

*allmusic*

Maybe the sources are just... wrong? No offense, but I wouldn't trust allmusic's opinions on music even if I got a free blowjob for it.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Sigz on September 09, 2010, 11:03:43 AM
Because we all know there's an objective truth about genres.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 09, 2010, 11:07:02 AM
Because we all know there's an objective truth about genres.
In a sense, yes. Genres exist to describe various qualities of a style of music. Whether one likes those qualities or not, the genre still exists.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: King Postwhore on September 09, 2010, 11:08:34 AM
Fishbone is funk metal and fishbone is much more.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: orcus116 on September 09, 2010, 11:10:26 AM
Then how does "Funk Metal" come up when there is obviously no such thing?

Did you completely miss:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hot_Chili_Peppers

Quote
Red Hot Chili Peppers is an American funk rock band formed in Los Angeles in 1983.

lolwut? The 'rap rock' genre is a little odd, though.

You know, where I checked your claim and it turns out you're not right?
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: ehra on September 09, 2010, 11:13:09 AM
*Checks sources*

*allmusic*

Maybe the sources are just... wrong? No offense, but I wouldn't trust allmusic's opinions on music even if I got a free blowjob for it.

Which is fine, but you can't expect people to just take your word for it when you claim that a respected musical guide is wrong and you're right without any backing argument or source.

Back to the subject of Nu Metal, it looks like there was someone arguing the same thing you are in one of the old discussion pages. It's under Sources and Slant:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nu_metal/Archive_5

It basically came down to "sources; site them."
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 09, 2010, 11:14:27 AM
Then how does "Funk Metal" come up when there is obviously no such thing?

Did you completely miss:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hot_Chili_Peppers

Quote
Red Hot Chili Peppers is an American funk rock band formed in Los Angeles in 1983.

lolwut? The 'rap rock' genre is a little odd, though.

You know, where I checked your claim and it turns out you're not right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funk_Metal

It very clearly says RHCP is on there. I'm guessing you're referring to RHCP's page, right? Well, its wikipedia so I'm not surprised it lacks consistency. At first I didn't even know what you were talking about.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Gorille85 on September 09, 2010, 11:16:15 AM
Then how does "Funk Metal" come up when there is obviously no such thing?

Did you completely miss:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hot_Chili_Peppers

Quote
Red Hot Chili Peppers is an American funk rock band formed in Los Angeles in 1983.

lolwut? The 'rap rock' genre is a little odd, though.

You know, where I checked your claim and it turns out you're not right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funk_Metal

It very clearly says RHCP is on there. I'm guessing you're referring to RHCP's page, right? Well, its wikipedia so I'm not surprised it lacks consistency. At first I didn't even know what you were talking about.
There is a huge difference about being in the funk metal page and being listed in their own page as "funk metal"! They may only have elements of funk and metal and be listed there...
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 09, 2010, 11:21:40 AM
*Checks sources*

*allmusic*

Maybe the sources are just... wrong? No offense, but I wouldn't trust allmusic's opinions on music even if I got a free blowjob for it.

Which is fine, but you can't expect people to just take your word for it when you claim that a respected musical guide is wrong and you're right without any backing argument or source.

Back to the subject of Nu Metal, it looks like there was someone arguing the same thing you are in one of the old discussion pages. It's under Sources and Slant:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nu_metal/Archive_5

It basically came down to "sources; site them."

That's the thing, anyone can come up with random sources that arbitrarily support their opinion while lacking neutrality. And more often than not, wikipedia seems to accept those kinds of sources, especially on music. Which is why I tend to lol at using wikipedia as a source in a musical argument.
Not to mention I have a sneaking suspicion that most of these "Respected Musical Guides" know very little about music (Especially more underground styles of music) that they talk about.
 
Its probably not the most convincing thing, but Nu-metal simply sounds closer to Hard Rock to me than it does Metal.
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: bosk1 on September 09, 2010, 11:22:58 AM
Whether you are right or wrong, you are completely derailing the thread wiht this discussion.  Can we get back on topic?
Title: Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
Post by: Seventh Son on September 09, 2010, 11:26:50 AM
Whether you are right or wrong, you are completely derailing the thread wiht this discussion.  Can we get back on topic?
Sorry, you're right.  :loser:

Just something that tends to grab my attention quite a bit.

Back on topic, I still say Slough Feg. I'd love to say Cormorant because their debut makes me all kinds of hot (Best release of 2009 imo), but its just one album by them so I'd need more from them to say Cormorant.

But Slough Feg has never disappointed me, and I much prefer them to the other top runners in this topic, so Slough Feg it is.