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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: ReaPsTA on July 24, 2010, 07:49:41 AM
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And I couldn't resist, I got pumped. I had to get up and air drum.
Maybe I'm just being pandered to because I like heavy music, but I don't understand the song's somewhat Lukewarm response. It's a bunch of awesome heavy riffs, melodies, and solos that build to the really intense unison into keyboard breakdown, topped off by what sounds like an army marching off into battle. What's there not to like?
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30 views and no replies...really?
Listening again. It's so crazy, I love it. The unison is awesome and I love bass wah going on. One-off or not, DT wrote an awesome metal instrumental.
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And I couldn't resist, I got pumped. I had to get up and air drum.
Maybe I'm just being pandered to because I like heavy music, but I don't understand the song's somewhat Lukewarm response. It's a bunch of awesome heavy riffs, melodies, and solos that build to the really intense unison into keyboard breakdown, topped off by what sounds like an army marching off into battle. What's there not to like?
It sounds like a bunch of completely random ideas that they threw together in about a day.
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I agree Reap. I listened to it a bunch lately. Even the King Crimsonish intro and outro are growing on me. Everything else in the middle is outstanding. I think people were expecting to be blown away and were simply greeted with a solid if unspectacular tune.
If this song had a different title and was neatly tucked away on a LTE album, no one would've had a problem with it.
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I thought it was ok but let be serious. It was made for a video game that has a lot of carnage. They were going for a certain vibe for the game and I'm ok with it.
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It sounds like a bunch of completely random ideas that they threw together in about a day.
I think this is part of why people don't like it. Mike made it clear that they used leftovers from Black Clouds instead of putting together something totally new.
Or maybe some people just don't like it.
:dunno:
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I don't know, but the fact that DT has not played this live either probably also shows how DT themselves are not considering it a super-great tune.
rumborak
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Inspired by this thread I listened to it again, only listened it to it in the winter one time when it was relaesed. And its actually a lot better this time around. I really like Jordans patch with JP:s heavy riffing in the intro and the outro, its atmospheric, and I like his JR:s playing over it in the outro. I hope they play it live or put it on a DVD.
When I first heard it: 1/5
Now: 5/5
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The cymbal bell hit at 3:44 pretty much makes that song.
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It has very cool riffs, and the intro is neat. But it's seriously barely a song. I also feel this way about TDOE. They just seem like some cool ideas randomly thrown together with the intent of being fun to play above anything else. But if you like it, awesome.
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It's an alright song. I have a big problem with it like a lot of people seem to.
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When I first heard it: 1/5
Now: 5/5
No offense, but that looks more like serious rating fail than a reasonable reevaluation of the song.
rumborak
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It's good, but nothing special.
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The cymbal bell hit at 3:44 pretty much makes that song.
...Why's that? I had actually never noticed it before, and had to re-listen to it just to know what you were talking about.
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If this song had a different title and was neatly tucked away on a LTE album, no one would've had a problem with it.
You really think so? I don't think it COULD be "tucked away" on an LTE album; it'd stick out like a sore thumb for a lot of reasons.
I listened to it a few times when it came out, but not since. Just wasn't very interesting to me. I'll give it another listen here in a few days.
-J
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If this song had a different title
You know it's called that because it's 'God War' backwards.
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I like ''War God'' better. And to the one that said they didn't notice the cymbal bell hit: How didn't you? It starts off the fast solo section.
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The game is called God (of) War, not War God.
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Intro and outro are annoying as hell, but there's some great stuff sprinkled in the middle. A mess, but a fun mess, and I think that's what they were going for.
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The cymbal bell hit at 3:44 pretty much makes that song.
...Why's that? I had actually never noticed it before, and had to re-listen to it just to know what you were talking about.
Haha, it's understandable. It's certainly not something that's really enjoyable for most people, but the fact that all the action stops just to throw in that bell hit, it's like red-light green-light. Plus it jumps into one of the sections I actually like.
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God War sounds like broken english whereas War God doesn't. But then of course Mike wouldn't have his enuendo so oh well.
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What do you want it to be called?
Raw fo Dog?
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Yes. That is what I want. That would be so epic and cool. I hope they change the name.
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awesome song. needs more props
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If this song had a different title and was neatly tucked away on a LTE album, no one would've had a problem with it.
LTE fans would.
I really like the King Crimson-ish intro, but the rest is just a mess. Nothing to get excited about, and it doesn't sound as if the band was excited about it, either.
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Raw Dog is pretty good if you listen to it from time to time, but so are most songs from generic popular metal bands like the big 4, avenged sevenfold, etc. I don't see depth in RD.
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When I first heard it: 1/5
Now: 5/5
No offense, but that looks more like serious rating fail than a reasonable reevaluation of the song.
rumborak
Yeah, with afterthought it maybe was a little bit overpositive, so its ranks from bad to okay 3/5.
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It is not a terrible song, but it sounds like just a bunch of riffs and leftover ideas thrown together randomly. I just listened to it again for the first time in a while, and was reminded of why I rarely listen to it. I am amused by the fact that in iTunes, "Pull Me Under" comes right after it (since I&W comes alphabetically after God of War, and the DT stuff is listened in order by albums alphabetically). :lol :lol
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It's just a fun little tune. Yeah, it's DT being very metal, but they have some really cool instrumentation going on in the middle. The intro and outro serve their purpose to lead into and out the song. Nothing near my favorite DT instrumental, and I hope it doesn't stop them from including a new instrumental on their 11th disc.
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Yes. That is what I want. That would be so epic and cool. I hope they change the name.
Who cares about the name?! It could've been named "Eat my ass and balls" I wouldn't like it less, it's a very cool song that I've listen way to..little...too...I'm hoping for it to be played at their An Evening With Tour :) :metal
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Sarcasm, chuck.
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sorry...
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It's not a bad instrumental. However I think it's boring until 3:20. That's when the song REALLY starts.
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This song is really clicking with me.
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To me it's better than Ytse Jam...and well..no question about it being better than Eve...pfft
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To me it's better than Ytse Jam...and well..no question about it being better than Eve...pfft
I know english isn't your primary language, but I think your post is expressing the opposite of the truth. You might want to fix that so people don't assume you meant that Raw Dog is better than either Ytse Jam or Eve.
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.... -.^
:neverusethis:
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Oh my.
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To me it's better than Ytse Jam...and well..no question about it being better than Eve...pfft
I almost raged. Almost.
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I'm good at making ppl at the DT forum rage by apprecieating DTs music...Where's our world heading?! :O
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To me it's better than Ytse Jam...and well..no question about it being better than Eve...pfft
(https://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/Sykasa/1280025715162.gif)
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Hehehehe
:neverusethis: but Hell's kitchen might be better though, and SoC aswell...but The Dance will allways be the best, THE best instrumental!
Erotomania i somewhere down here with Eve.
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To me it's better than Ytse Jam...and well..no question about it being better than Eve...pfft
:lol Certainly not the WORST of your many terrible opinions, but I still disagree, even though I don't really care for Ytse Jam.
-J
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My opinion of Raw Dog has improved after a few listens. Still among my least favs.
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Oh why not. Let's rank the instrumentals to include Raw Dog.
Hell's Kitchen
Bombay Vindaloo (don't care what you say, I am counting it)
Eve
Stream of Consciousness
Erotomania
Overture 1928
The Dance of Eternity
Raw Dog
Ytse Jam
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Hehehehe
:neverusethis: but Hell's kitchen might be better though, and SoC aswell...but The Dance will allways be the best, THE best instrumental!
Erotomania i somewhere down here with Eve.
:|
DoE is probably their weakest instrumental aside from Raw Dog.
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The Dance of Eternity is an amazing song TECHNICALLY.
That's about all it is. (although ill admit i wish i could play it on keys. i can only do it up until the Fatal Tragedy arpeggios)
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My ranking is very close to yours James, with a couple of changes:
Hell's Kitchen
Eve
Stream of Consciousness
Erotomania
Overture 1928
Raw Dog
Ytse Jam
The Dance of Eternity
I'd put TDoE at the bottom, and I refuse to include Bombay Vindaloo on the basis that it's a jam session and not a song, and so the only list it should ever appear in is top of the list of tracks that shouldn't be included in other DT-related lists. :P
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I'd put TDoE at the bottom, and I refuse to include Bombay Vindaloo on the basis that it's a jam session and not a song, and so the only list it should ever appear in is top of the list of tracks that shouldn't be included in other DT-related lists. :P
I will defeat you yet, ariich.
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THE DANCE!!!! :metal
The streaaam!!!
Kitchen of heeelll!!!
Raw dog
Overture 1928
Do we count the Sdoit overture? if so, it's here < < <
That jam on the marquee, bombay vindaloo or w/e it's called
Ytse Jam
Erotomania
Eve
That's all right?
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To me it's better than Ytse Jam...and well..no question about it being better than Eve...pfft
I know english isn't your primary language, but I think your post is expressing the opposite of the truth. You might want to fix that so people don't assume you meant that Raw Dog is better than either Ytse Jam or Eve.
The guy's been trolling for months now, the language barrier isn't the issue.
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He's gotten much better, I tell you. And I don't think he's trolling on purpose, so you can't really call that trolling.
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Hell's Kitchen:
I love this every once in a while. One of the DT songs that (IMO) actually has feeling. And JP still manages to fit in a mind melting solo. A top-ten song for me
Eve:
Not a song that you can really 'groove' to, but I love it. Idk why it's not on an album but it shoul be.
Overture 1928:
Very good as an instrumental. Brings back Metropolis's intro, which flows nicely from Regression. Fascinating musically. Also hosts some of DT's better solos. Transition to Strange Deja Vu is nothing short of godly. :metal
Erotomania:
Good song. I hated it at first I will admit. Largely due to the organ in the beginning and the hard-to-decipher time sigs. I now see the latter as an asset.
Overture SDOIT:
Certainly a musical accomplishment, but as a single piece is nothing special. Works very well as a part in SDOIT
SoC:
Not too crazy about this one. Great instrumentation all across the board, however it drags a lot in the last two or three minutes.
TDoE:
Very annoying after seven minutes, but somehow I feel SFAM would be incomplete without it. Jordan did some awesome things in this, like the ragtime solo. The 'most time sig changes in a single song' seems more of a label than anything.
Ytse Jam:
Very catchy lick; but I fail to see the song as much more than that. A high point on the album.
Raw Dog: meh. no.
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He's gotten much better, I tell you. And I don't think he's trolling on purpose, so you can't really call that trolling.
WHAT'S TROLLING?!?!?! >:( :censored How can I be something that I do not even know what it means!!!
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He's gotten much better, I tell you. And I don't think he's trolling on purpose, so you can't really call that trolling.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt but it really does look like something a bored 5/8er or similar would do "for lulz".
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BRMG isn't trolling. Just the other day he made this very astute post:
I agree with TAC
:tup
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BRMG isn't trolling. Just the other day he made this very astute post:
I agree with TAC
:tup
And you spelled his four-letter-username wrong. :neverusethis:
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He's gotten much better, I tell you. And I don't think he's trolling on purpose, so you can't really call that trolling.
WHAT'S TROLLING?!?!?! >:( :censored How can I be something that I do not even know what it means!!!
Trolling is purposely pissing people off to get a response from them. You are not a troll; your opinions are genuine.
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Yep, having really bad opinions does not make you a troll.
Anyway, as far as the instrumentals go, "Erotomania" and "Hell's Kitchen" are the best two, and "Raw Dog" and "The Dance of Eternity" are the worst two. Everything else fits in the middle somewhere. :biggrin:
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Yep, having really bad opinions does not make you a troll.
Very true, though some of his earlier opinions (pretty much all of them) were getting rises out of people without fail. That plus his order of DT albums from least favorite to favorite was in exact release order which was kinda suspicious. He seems genuine at this point, though.
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BRMG isn't trolling. Just the other day he made this very astute post:
I agree with TAC
:tup
And you spelled his four-letter-username wrong. :neverusethis:
Thanks for pointing that out OctaFromAwakeavarium!
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You're such a jokester, CAT.
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You're such a jokester, CAT.
:facepalm:
As I was typing my post, I KNEW that was coming.
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You're such a jokester, CAT.
:facepalm:
As I was typing my post, I KNEW that was coming.
You are quite the ACT.
-Marc.
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You're such a jokester, CAT.
:facepalm:
As I was typing my post, I KNEW that was coming.
You are quite the ACT.
-Marc.
Marc, how do you craM such wit into your posts?
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I listened to it for the first time yesterday on youtube and it definitely sounds like a video game track. I wouldn't be inclined even in the least to compare it to album instrumentals. Not even the same thing. It's a fucking video game people. Bands don't take video game tracks that seriously. They have a theme to work with and throw some stuff together related to the theme and that's it. I can guarantee if there is an instrumental on the next album, it will be better than Raw Dog.
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I listened to it for the first time yesterday on youtube and it definitely sounds like a video game track. I wouldn't be inclined even in the least to compare it to album instrumentals. Not even the same thing. It's a fucking video game people. Bands don't take video game tracks that seriously. They have a theme to work with and throw some stuff together related to the theme and that's it. I can guarantee if there is an instrumental on the next album, it will be better than Raw Dog.
...Unless you're Incubus, who cranked out a 20+ minute instrumental, 4-part suite in the vein of progressive rock with Floydian-influence and a bit of Crimson thrown in...
-Marc.
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That's probably a rare occasion. I was speaking in general terms of course.
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Yep, having really bad opinions does not make you a troll.
They're not bad, just different than yours...and like all the others as well.
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I never got the 'Raw Dog feels like a bunch of riffs slapped together' argument. I guess compositionally it kinda is, considering how abrupt the transitions are, but the emotional through-lines are all still there.
Intro, goes on for a while, you feel like it's time to stop introing and get to rocking
Kick into the riff with the strings and lead guitar, which kinda rocks, this doesn't build up too radically, so you can't transition into something too different
Guitar lead and bassline with a similar feel to the melody before it kick in, we stay with this for a while, because of this your next transition has to be far more different feeling, and the transition implies as much
Very intense feeling lead guitar then lead keyboard line to transition into solos, starting with a more melodic guitar solo for contrast
Riffs underlying the solos get slightly darker over the course of the section, solos get increasingly more twisted, ending with a weird but farmoreeffectivethaninariteofpassage Bebot solo that ends with a weirdly majestic feeling resolve which kicks us into
The big melodic and epic unison section, which brings together all the emotional intensity of the solos and keeps building it as the drums get faster, and then doesn't quite resolve that tension and instead lets it bleed out by going to the darker keyboard arpeggio type section, at that point, you want to hear something that isn't so crazy
So BAM, back to the riff the song started with, which kicks into a double bass driven descent into the end of the song. Oddly, this is the part of the song I find myself most emotionally responding to but don't really know how to explain. I always think of it as armies marching into some kind of inevitable and hopeless battle with one another, but I don't really know how that works in the context of the song. It's a shame they didn't stick a fadeout onto the end. That would have been a great ending.
Inevitably, someone will say "well, if you overthink something enough, of course it will make sense." But I can remember the first time I heard it quite distinctly, and I followed all the transitions and got basically the same feeling from them that I do now. More elaborately? Yes, which always happens when you get more familiar with a song. But I didn't teach myself to like it for god knows what reason. There are many, many DT songs that feel more like riffs thrown together than this one.
Also, generic metal? Really? How generic is the bassline before the big solo section? How obviously are the solos Petrucci and Rudess? The unison after the solos is such a distinct DT trope. The keyboard breakdown after the unison is so obviously Rudess. The outro is unlike anything I've heard before. Maybe the intro's generic (it's the same riff as the outro, but instead of going into the rolling double bass Petrucci fills in the notes with muted notes), but it's still cool sounding and works in the context of the song, even though admittedly it's my least favorite part.
Or maybe I'm just hearing it all wrong.
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Bebot solo? :O where?
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Bebot solo? :O where?
After the first keyboard solo, the change in tone is definitely there, and when it ends you can tell that the nature of the patch changing pitch is very similar to the Bebot solo in A Rite of Passage.
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They're not bad, just different
That's what fanboys say about everything that gets even a slight bit of criticism.
(That's not to say that you are a fanboy...)
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I dunno about anyone else, but I find it pretty ridiculous that people will happily have a go at Darkes for not being able to accept the opinions of others, but will then accuse BRGM of being a troll because his opinions differ from the norm. Ok his English isn't great, but then he's a kid from Sweden, there's no reason he should HAVE to have perfect English, and he's good enough to express his opinions. Everyone should try responding to what he says instead of discussing his posting style, which is never on topic.
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Oh and tri.ad, he was talking about his opinions being different rather than bad, which is absolutely true. The only "bad" opinion is one based on factually incorrect information. Outside of that, calling an opinion bad is pretty lame.
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Oh and tri.ad, he was talking about his opinions being different rather than bad, which is absolutely true. The only "bad" opinion is one based on factually incorrect information. Outside of that, calling an opinion bad is pretty lame.
I've seen people say that making fun of bad music isn't trolling before.
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The only "bad" opinion is one based on factually incorrect information.
Right, like "Systematic Chaos is superior to 8 of the 9 other DT albums". :neverusethis:
-J
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The only "bad" opinion is one based on factually incorrect information.
Right, like "Systematic Chaos is superior to 8 of the 9 other DT albums". :neverusethis:
-J
Well, that's a matter of opinion. :lol
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The only "bad" opinion is one based on factually incorrect information.
Right, like "Systematic Chaos is superior to 8 of the 9 other DT albums". :neverusethis:
-J
:lol :facepalm:
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Oh come on! hahaha :lol
Well, SC just happens to be one of my fav Albums of all time...sorry ^^ but that's just how I am, hehe :P I kinda like their heavy stuff as well, and I do not understand all this talking about "wankery" in that album.
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The wankery comes from that fact that, while I'm positive the songwriting wasn't conceived this way on purpose, something about the combination of the riffs themselves, the style they're trying to play, and their ideas of how the execute those ideas (meaning Petrucci and Jordan doing a lot of shredding and fast arpeggios) melds into something that, to a good number of people, sounds mindless and scattered. Back during Images and Words a lot of the sections with those same characteristics (the arpeggios and fast playing) came out not muddled and creative for some reason. I want to attribute this to the fact that the band sat down and tweaked those parts to perfection but that might not be the case. Nowadays it seems that the band is so wrapped up in the technicality of their technical sections that they come out bland and uninspired. For a great deal of people it works though I'm not really a fan of it. It's a shame because this is the same exact group that created some great technical sections in Scenes From A Memory.
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Well, SC just happens to be one of my fav Albums of all time...sorry ^^ but that's just how I am, hehe :P I kinda like their heavy stuff as well, and I do not understand all this talking about "wankery" in that album.
:tup :tup
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The wankery comes from that fact that, while I'm positive the songwriting wasn't conceived this way on purpose, something about the combination of the riffs themselves, the style they're trying to play, and their ideas of how the execute those ideas (meaning Petrucci and Jordan doing a lot of shredding and fast arpeggios) melds into something that, to a good number of people, sounds mindless and scattered. Back during Images and Words a lot of the sections with those same characteristics (the arpeggios and fast playing) came out not muddled and creative for some reason. I want to attribute this to the fact that the band sat down and tweaked those parts to perfection but that might not be the case. Nowadays it seems that the band is so wrapped up in the technicality of their technical sections that they come out bland and uninspired. For a great deal of people it works though I'm not really a fan of it. It's a shame because this is the same exact group that created some great technical sections in Scenes From A Memory.
hmmmm...Okay...Cuz I like their technical stuff on SC, seems I'm one of a few.
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BRGM, keep in mind that this forum is not necessarily representative of opinions of the whole DT fanbase. I know plenty of people who like SC. :tup
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Oh come on! hahaha :lol
Well, SC just happens to be one of my fav Albums of all time...sorry ^^ but that's just how I am, hehe :P I kinda like their heavy stuff as well, and I do not understand all this talking about "wankery" in that album.
Because it honestly feels like DT is focusing on technicality in SC more than songwriting, whereas the quality of the song should come before technicality. To add to that, many of the songs in SC just aren't very good to me, so it really feels like there was more of an emphasis on technicality and less on quality songwriting. That's why it tends to get that label.
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I've always maintained that after the emotion of Score, SC was DT's "take a breather" album. It's not serious and very fun to listen to. I gave them a pass and hoped for something much more impactful on their "next" album. SC is very easy on the ears and I enjoy it immensely.
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I've always maintained that after the emotion of Score, SC was DT's "take a breather" album. It's not serious and very fun to listen to. I gave them a pass and hoped for something much more impactful on their "next" album. SC is very easy on the ears and I enjoy it immensely.
I agree with this completely. The fact is, when I first listened to it, I thought it was good. Sometimes, I feel like I unfortunately let people on the internet color my opinion a little bit too much.
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I've always maintained that after the emotion of Score, SC was DT's "take a breather" album. It's not serious and very fun to listen to. I gave them a pass and hoped for something much more impactful on their "next" album. SC is very easy on the ears and I enjoy it immensely.
Good one TAC. Keeping this in mind makes it easier to enjoy SC. That album isn't even in my top 5, but I still enjoy it.
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That album isn't even in my top 5, but I still enjoy it.
Exactly the same here. :tup
And well said TAC!
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The only "bad" opinion is one based on factually incorrect information.
Yes, but
To me it's better than Ytse Jam...and well..no question about it being better than Eve...pfft
I kid, but I couldn't resist. Luv ya, BRGM, you old weirdo you.
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That album isn't even in my top 5, but I still enjoy it.
Same here, its on my bottom 2, but i still like, it the thing is that the album is "bad" by DT standard.
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Oh come on! hahaha :lol
Well, SC just happens to be one of my fav Albums of all time...sorry ^^ but that's just how I am, hehe :P I kinda like their heavy stuff as well, and I do not understand all this talking about "wankery" in that album.
No need to apologize, and I think there's some really good stuff on SC just like every other DT album, even the lesser ones.
And for what it's worth, you seem to have a decent sense of humor, and it's hard not to like you in spite of your outlandish opinions. :biggrin:
-J
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I listened to it again today and I couldn't help but feel Mike's drums had more of a punch and had a better volume in the mix and it wasn't a compressed song in terms of production. It's a perfectly balanced production and sounds better than BC&SL in my opinion. Not much, but better.
Just my noobish opinion :D
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I listened to it again today and I couldn't help but feel Mike's drums had more of a punch and had a better volume in the mix and it wasn't a compressed song in terms of production. It's a perfectly balanced production and sounds better than BC&SL in my opinion. Not much, but better.
Just my noobish opinion :D
I partly agree with you. As faulty as the production on SC was, you can't deny that the drums have the necessary punch that lacks on BCASL. BCASL sounds slightly better in terms of loudness, but the drums aren't accentuated enough to provide the necessary punch and thus, they got drown out by the overloud guitars.
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I partly agree with you. As faulty as the production on SC was, you can't deny that the drums have the necessary punch that lacks on BCASL. BCASL sounds slightly better in terms of loudness, but the drums aren't accentuated enough to provide the necessary punch and thus, they got drown out by the overloud guitars.
ANTR would have sounded great if it had the drum sound of Raw Dog. The double kicks and blast beats would sound excellent.
I don't what it is with me though recently, I have been paying more attention to sound quality and production. On SC, the two main sounds you hear are drums and guitar. If they turned down JP a little and turned MP up and JM up and keep JR where he is, the mix would be excellent. Raw Dog has the production I want
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Nothing wrong with that, mate. :)
And it's a common phenomenon in today's music production in rock and metal that the guitars overpower everything; I think this is because they appear to not be affected that much by the huge amount of compression these days.
As for Raw Dog... Well, the guitars, particularly the rhythm guitar, are too loud compared to the rest of the instruments. But the drums have the right amount of punch, the snare could be louder, though.
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I'm not so picky about production anyways. Raw Dog is great when it's only the rhythm guitar is playing. It makes you headbang for shit, but the bad part is when it all becomes a solo fest. That really turns me down.
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SC's production has always seemed sterile, though the loud mastering hasn't really helped in changing that.