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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: ? on July 11, 2010, 02:22:24 AM
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Many people seem to dislike the lyrics on the newer DT albums so I decided to make this poll to see which albums are considered the best lyrically. My favourite is Awake, it has lyrics from each member and I think especially JP wrote some of his best lyrics on this album. SFAM is also very good because of the great story, I&W and 6DOIT aren't bad either.
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6
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Awake. JP struck gold with his lyrics on this album, The Mirror has some of MP's best lyrics, and JLB's first entry was pretty remarkable. Also, LSOAD contains my favourite JM lyrics.
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since we are talking about lyircs, i choose I&W, between i&w and awake, it's really tough to choose. i just can't give up my addiction to metropolis 1 and learning to live, as you can see my signature is quoted from learning to live:
Show me kindness
Show me beauty
Show me truth
of course there's no doubt 6DOIT is the most comprehensible.
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Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, although Scenes is a great album lyrically as well.
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I&W for me.
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Easily Awake.
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This was surprisingly difficult, but finally went with SFAM. Absolute masterpiece in combining fairly simple stories to a really complex, clever concept. And some of these, even if it's a fictional story, feel incredibly real and emotional.
The competition was:
Awake - a mile ahead of previous albums, a lot of emotion
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence - they deal with some very difficult problems, and do it great, probably second place
Train of Thought - yes, I really like the dark and angry/depressive feel of the lyrics here, they handled it very well. And I've mentioned In The Name of God is my favourite song lyric-wise in the entire DT discography.
But we know which album will win like always... ::)
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Train of Thought - yes, I really like the dark and angry/depressive feel of the lyrics here, they handled it very well. And I've mentioned In The Name of God is my favourite song lyric-wise in the entire DT discography.
But we know which album will win like always... ::)
DON'T CROSS THE CROOKED STEP
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:P Forgot to mention Honor Thy Father is probably the weakest link (lyrically), but it's still surprisingly good for this kind of theme.
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I have to say in favor of Train of Thought that they occasionally hit a few multis (for the rap nerds). They were probably coincidental, but cool.
8VM gets my vote because of 'Day for Night-mare Cinema Show'. That whole section blew me away.
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Six Degrees. The title track is slightly weaker, but personally I think the lyrics on the first disc are wonderful.
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Easily Awake.
yep
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Six Degrees. The title track is slightly weaker, but personally I think the lyrics on the first disc are wonderful.
Actually I find the title track to be one of their greatest achievements here. It really isn't an easy thing to write about...
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"The smell of stale sweat and shit steaming through the night." - That line alone eliminates it from contention.
Gotta go with Awake, with I&W in second place. Moore was still in the band, Petrucci was on top of his game, Myung was writing gems, and Portnoy and JLB (both of whom are average lyric writers at best) weren't writing much yet.
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I have to go with SFAM, with Awake in a close second.
"The smell of stale sweat and shit steaming through the night." - That line alone eliminates it from contention.
:lol
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One line doesn't make a 42-minute suite bad. :P
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I&W because of LtL.
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One line doesn't make a 42-minute suite bad. :P
True, but it's a shame Mike can hardly write a lyric with including juvenile profanities.
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There are two of them he's written that include any profanity at all. And the entire 12-step suite which contains one word on the borderline. Wow.
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What brave soul voted Octavarium?
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It's definitely a very good album lyric-wise, though personally I find the four I mentioned even greater.
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I wouldn't say very good but it's not exactly bad. Bland is probably the best way to describe those lyrics.
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Awake.
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Six Degrees.
Images and Words would probably be second... although, now Darkes mentions it, Train of Thought is pretty good, too.
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Six Degrees by far, with Images and Words coming in a distant second
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One line doesn't make a 42-minute suite bad. :P
Who said that it did?
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"The smell of stale sweat and shit steaming through the night." - That line alone eliminates it from contention.
[predicted answer: "it was a joke you have no sense of humour"]
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lol Kev he got you there.
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I don't see how, but okay. If I concede, I am okay with the score now being:
KevShmev 72
Darkes7 1
:p :lol :biggrin:
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Well, I concede that techically, you said that line alone eliminated it from contention for being your favorite DT album lyrically (the point of the thread), which wasn't technically what Darkes7 was referring to. So you're right.
But it was still funny.
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FII, WDADU, and SDOIT all have some real gems and some real clunkers.
8VM and SC are bland but mostly passable with a few bad apples in there (Never Enough and Prophets of War jump to mind). However, Octavarium (song) and ITPOE--along with a couple others--have some lyrics that I really like.
SFAM's story is kinda cool, but the actual *lyrics* are very pedestrian.
BC&SL and ToT have to be their worst lyrical efforts to date. I can't believe the praise for ToT, the album that contains As I Am and Honor Thy Father. Endless Sacrifice and ITNOG aren't exactly lyrical masterpieces either.
That leaves I&W and Awake, and I think Awake easily takes it. I&W has some cool lyrics and weird imagery going on, but really nothing else DT have done touches Awake in this department.
-J
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I don't see how, but okay. If I concede, I am okay with the score now being:
KevShmev 72
Darkes7 1
:p :lol :biggrin:
Ok, I know, you're too awesome for me to even see your incredible intelligence. Bow down to the Emperor!
FII, WDADU, and SDOIT all have some real gems and some real clunkers.
8VM and SC are bland but mostly passable with a few bad apples in there (Never Enough and Prophets of War jump to mind). However, Octavarium (song) and ITPOE--along with a couple others--have some lyrics that I really like.
SFAM's story is kinda cool, but the actual *lyrics* are very pedestrian.
BC&SL and ToT have to be their worst lyrical efforts to date. I can't believe the praise for ToT, the album that contains As I Am and Honor Thy Father. Endless Sacrifice and ITNOG aren't exactly lyrical masterpieces either.
That leaves I&W and Awake, and I think Awake easily takes it. I&W has some cool lyrics and weird imagery going on, but really nothing else DT have done touches Awake in this department.
-J
Personally I don't get what's wrong with a) Prophets of War and b) Train of Thought as a whole. That neither is trying to be super-poetic (and you actually know what the hell the lyrics are about, what can't be said about most of I&W) doesn't make them immediately bad, quite the opposite, they are remarkably good for the themes they're dealing with. Like someone said, "I just don't understand".
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Prophets of War is pretty eyeroll worthy, though I've never been a huge fan of political lyrics in music. I guess there's something about it that even for being released in 2007 makes the subject matter dated even for then.
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Gotta go with Awake, with "Voices" being the best them.
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FII, WDADU, and SDOIT all have some real gems and some real clunkers.
8VM and SC are bland but mostly passable with a few bad apples in there (Never Enough and Prophets of War jump to mind). However, Octavarium (song) and ITPOE--along with a couple others--have some lyrics that I really like.
SFAM's story is kinda cool, but the actual *lyrics* are very pedestrian.
BC&SL and ToT have to be their worst lyrical efforts to date. I can't believe the praise for ToT, the album that contains As I Am and Honor Thy Father. Endless Sacrifice and ITNOG aren't exactly lyrical masterpieces either.
That leaves I&W and Awake, and I think Awake easily takes it. I&W has some cool lyrics and weird imagery going on, but really nothing else DT have done touches Awake in this department.
-J
Personally I don't get what's wrong with a) Prophets of War and b) Train of Thought as a whole. That neither is trying to be super-poetic (and you actually know what the hell the lyrics are about, what can't be said about most of I&W) doesn't make them immediately bad, quite the opposite, they are remarkably good for the themes they're dealing with. Like someone said, "I just don't understand".
I agree, being "super-poetic" is not at all a prerequisite for good lyrics. But I completely disagree that those songs' lyrics are anywhere near the realm of well-written. I won't try to sway your opinion, partly because I wouldn't know where to start with someone who thinks Prophets of War's lyrics are "remarkably good". :lol
-J
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Instead of showing how stupid I am, maybe just explain what's wrong with them, especially compared to how usually lyrics about politics look like. ::)
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Gotta go with Scenes from a Memory. The story is painted so vividly that it's almost picture clear when I close my eyes and listen to the album. I
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Awake, without a doubt.
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SFAM....It's a story!
But...I don't listen to DT cuz of the lyrics...haven't even cared about the lyrics in their older albums, can't even here what JLB is singing on Scarred at CiM
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SFAM....It's a story!
That is what I just don't understand. How does the fact that an album is a concept album automatically put the lyrics and the music of that album at the top of so many people's "favourite" lists? For the sole reason that they're part of a concept album? I wouldn't agree with this at all.
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I always found the SFAM story stupid, cheesy, and cliche. Awake, with Six Degrees at a close second.
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SFAM....It's a story!
That is what I just don't understand. How does the fact that an album is a concept album automatically put the lyrics and the music of that album at the top of so many people's "favourite" lists? For the sole reason that they're part of a concept album? I wouldn't agree with this at all.
Nope. The reasons for me are:
1) Like I said (more than once in fact... ok, I said it lots of times) - it's just amazing how they combined two very simple stories (a man with visions at night/a love story with two brothers competing) into such a complex concept which, for me, is anything but "stupid, cheesy and cliche".
2) Like someone else mentioned, the lyrics are just incredibly well-written overall and they make it feel real, like if they really exist(ed). I feel it's not even possible to look at it in the "oh, it's just the album concept" way, they just grab you in there.
3) Even though it's just a made-up story, they're written with a lot of feeling and emotion, just like if they were real, personal lyrics. This is quite rare and definitely something to appreciate.
4) There's not a single line in there that wouldn't fit or would be sung in a way that doesn't really fit. Everything is in the right place.
That's why. Like I said, an album being a concept album can either make it even more awesome (if the album is great and so is the concept), or it can bring it down even if it's a great album. This is definitely the former case.
On a side note, I'm surprised by the total lack of votes on FII.
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On a side note, I'm surprised by the total lack of votes on FII.
Yes, this oversight is really burning my soul :neverusethis:
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Well, You Not Me is obvious and from what I see Burning My Soul and Just Let Me Breathe probably don't have a huge popularity here, but there's some amazing lyrics on the album, especially Trial of Tears.
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Awake.
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1) Like I said (more than once in fact... ok, I said it lots of times) - it's just amazing how they combined two very simple stories (a man with visions at night/a love story with two brothers competing) into such a complex concept which, for me, is anything but "stupid, cheesy and cliche".
There is nothing complex about "man's wife sleeps with his brother so man kills them both and makes it look like a murder suicide". That's also where stupid and cheesy come from. It's a captivating story when you're 15 but over the years it quickly becomes way less satisfying.
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I agree with this. The execution of the concept started out interesting though, but the solution of it (particularly regarding the motive of the murder) was very disappointing imo.
EDIT: tri.ad's post is a much better example of how to use a bit of tact to say you don't like something without baiting another user.
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Orcus, we get it. There are a few things (or, a seemingly endless list of things) you hate. I'm really tired of the constant, never-ending trolling of DT threads and baiting of anyone who dares like anything you dislike. Take a week off.
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SFAM....It's a story!
That is what I just don't understand. How does the fact that an album is a concept album automatically put the lyrics and the music of that album at the top of so many people's "favourite" lists? For the sole reason that they're part of a concept album? I wouldn't agree with this at all.
Nope. The reasons for me are:
1) Like I said (more than once in fact... ok, I said it lots of times) - it's just amazing how they combined two very simple stories (a man with visions at night/a love story with two brothers competing) into such a complex concept which, for me, is anything but "stupid, cheesy and cliche".
2) Like someone else mentioned, the lyrics are just incredibly well-written overall and they make it feel real, like if they really exist(ed). I feel it's not even possible to look at it in the "oh, it's just the album concept" way, they just grab you in there.
3) Even though it's just a made-up story, they're written with a lot of feeling and emotion, just like if they were real, personal lyrics. This is quite rare and definitely something to appreciate.
4) There's not a single line in there that wouldn't fit or would be sung in a way that doesn't really fit. Everything is in the right place.
I mostly agree with your first point: the concept itself is a pretty cool idea. I just disagree with your opinion of the lyrics. I can't think of any BAD ones off the top of my head, they just don't add much "feeling and emotion" for me I guess. But I understand your opinion, and I'm glad you get so much enjoyment from the lyrics.
Well, You Not Me is obvious and from what I see Burning My Soul and Just Let Me Breathe probably don't have a huge popularity here, but there's some amazing lyrics on the album, especially Trial of Tears.
Completely agree. I quote myself:
FII, WDADU, and SDOIT all have some real gems and some real clunkers.
-J
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Prophets of War is easily DT's worst lyrical effort. People poke fun at TCOT, but to me the whimsical tone works well, and while the lyrics are hardly great, they fit with the story, the mood and the music.
POW on the other hand, tries to make a political, but has too many awkward lyrics, and on top of that it just doesn't fit the most fun and upbeat music to the song.
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the latest album is really lame in a sense of lyrics, as JP has suggested in song: their artistic creativity really withered.
maybe awake is the best DT album both lyrically and melodically.
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Prophets of War is easily DT's worst lyrical effort. People poke fun at TCOT, but to me the whimsical tone works well, and while the lyrics are hardly great, they fit with the story, the mood and the music.
Aye. I kind of think that maybe some of the people taking the piss out of TCOT aren't quite getting the joke.
It's meant to be quirky. Bizarre. It is a story about a crime that was never going to happen. It's not an emotional voyage. It's a surreal anecdote. Loopy and a little paranoid. I honestly don't think there's a single line out of place, it's got a very exact tone.
Prophets of War is a bit on the nose. Not out-'n'-out dreadful, but if he started singing "Down with Bush" it wouldn't feel like a massive diversion, which is a bad thing imo.
Their outright worst lyrics are really hard to choose. There's nothing atrocious. Things that bother me in lyrics are generally mixed metaphors and when people try to inject colour but it falls a bit flat... or cliches, actually. Some lyricists tend to repeat phrases a hell of a lot. Mostly Autumn ALWAYS go on about things being "Somewhere in between."
I suppose one thing I'm not as fond of is when they namedrop. I don't like when they namecheck made-up characters. But that doesn't a bad set of lyrics make. Hard to say.